Re: External Monitor with N800
I think we'll see this soon enough...especially nice for higher-res pdas/etc. OQO has hdmi out...and I think they're the only ones with such a thing. When you move your umpc/ppc into new context/environment...you will want to replace inputs and outputs (speakers, screen, mic, keybd, etc.)...ideally all thru bluetoothbut bt imaging is kinda weak still I think. Then you've truly got a modular heart/brains unit that can be used standalone or integrated into larger device when in car, etc. I consider addition of hdmi out to these class of devices a must-have almost. mike Kalle Valo wrote: ext Dr. Nicholas Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My wife would like to display presentations, that reside on the N800, directly to a monitor without using another computer (such as what I do with VNC). In other words, presentation runs on the N800 and output displays on an external monitor. I believe we had a similar discussion several months back. Is this possible? The answer was, I believe, no but I want to verify. You are correct, N810 does not have video output. But there was a similar question posted to lwn.net and someone suggested to use USB2VGA for that: http://lwn.net/Articles/254916/ http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/HowTo/AddVGAAdapter It might or might not work. But this would be a hacker project, not for normal users. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: External Monitor with N800
Aside from substituting DVI with DVI-A for HDMI, I agree. It'd be nice to see decent video out on the internet tablets. Mike Klein wrote: I think we'll see this soon enough...especially nice for higher-res pdas/etc. OQO has hdmi out...and I think they're the only ones with such a thing. When you move your umpc/ppc into new context/environment...you will want to replace inputs and outputs (speakers, screen, mic, keybd, etc.)...ideally all thru bluetoothbut bt imaging is kinda weak still I think. Then you've truly got a modular heart/brains unit that can be used standalone or integrated into larger device when in car, etc. I consider addition of hdmi out to these class of devices a must-have almost. mike Kalle Valo wrote: ext Dr. Nicholas Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My wife would like to display presentations, that reside on the N800, directly to a monitor without using another computer (such as what I do with VNC). In other words, presentation runs on the N800 and output displays on an external monitor. I believe we had a similar discussion several months back. Is this possible? The answer was, I believe, no but I want to verify. You are correct, N810 does not have video output. But there was a similar question posted to lwn.net and someone suggested to use USB2VGA for that: http://lwn.net/Articles/254916/ http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/HowTo/AddVGAAdapter It might or might not work. But this would be a hacker project, not for normal users. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: External Monitor with N800
Then you'd have to have a dongle, no? Dongles are evil...I carry around too much crap already. Why would you prefer dvi? If it were hdmi...it w/have to be v1.3? cause this is only version that supports HD video with audiosupposedly earlier hdmi versions wouldn't support full audio when doing 1080p. mike John Rudd wrote: Aside from substituting DVI with DVI-A for HDMI, I agree. It'd be nice to see decent video out on the internet tablets. Mike Klein wrote: I think we'll see this soon enough...especially nice for higher-res pdas/etc. OQO has hdmi out...and I think they're the only ones with such a thing. When you move your umpc/ppc into new context/environment...you will want to replace inputs and outputs (speakers, screen, mic, keybd, etc.)...ideally all thru bluetoothbut bt imaging is kinda weak still I think. Then you've truly got a modular heart/brains unit that can be used standalone or integrated into larger device when in car, etc. I consider addition of hdmi out to these class of devices a must-have almost. mike Kalle Valo wrote: ext Dr. Nicholas Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My wife would like to display presentations, that reside on the N800, directly to a monitor without using another computer (such as what I do with VNC). In other words, presentation runs on the N800 and output displays on an external monitor. I believe we had a similar discussion several months back. Is this possible? The answer was, I believe, no but I want to verify. You are correct, N810 does not have video output. But there was a similar question posted to lwn.net and someone suggested to use USB2VGA for that: http://lwn.net/Articles/254916/ http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/HowTo/AddVGAAdapter It might or might not work. But this would be a hacker project, not for normal users. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Found out why BT sound is choppy.
Not sure where to go next on this. (beyond bug filing) Kagu is definitely the culprit. in that something about updating the screen causes BT sound to cut out. If you shrink the screen and open for example the browser scrolling and surfing has no affect on sound. But if you are doing anything with the kagu UI sound cuts out. BTW anyone gotten any of the other apps to play sound over BT? James ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
Am Donnerstag, 18. Oktober 2007 schrieb Steve Greenland: Background: I'm a long-time Debian user and developer, and have grown used to 'apt-get install somepackage' *working*. That's one of the reasons I purchased the n800; I naively expected that having adopted the best packaging *tools* available, the maemo community might also adopt the Debian packaging *practices*. You need *both* to get the Debian experience. Others have ranted about the general problems, and it appears that Nokia and the maemo devels have plans to try to fix the problems, so I won't repeat the rant here. Except as it applies to the specific packages, of course. Current state of ogg support, 17-October-2007. Summary: the good news is that you can play oggs with N800. The bad news? Read on...but let me first throw out a big thank you to all the people who have worked on this. I rant because it's more fun to write rants, and because if you don't write about the problems there's not much to say, but I *can* play oggs on my N800, and I appreciate that. ... Ah, now I feel better. Hey, don't complain. I told you it was a rant in the subject line. Regards, Steve Hi Steve, your review pointed out how redundant and chaotic development for the n800 is at the moment. I would like to pick up two points from your review: a) the repository situation - Were are all the apps? b) ogg support - Time to join forces! to a) Were are all the apps? One thing that we are missing is a 'distribution' (the debian or ubuntu way) with primary repositories and additional repos. etc. At the moment there are many different sources for apps: different repositories, personal web pages from developers, maemo garage ... You name it. It is already difficult for me (as an experienced linux user) - so how does someone with less experience, time and motivation get along? Why is ubuntu so successfull? One reason might be the ease of installing apps and adding repositories offering thoughtands of apps. Don't you agree? My hope is, that we will see some kind of consolidation with chinook and the ubuntu mobil edition. The time is ready to get serious. Especially with the n810 and the expected mid's waiting! to b) Don't get me wrong: I believe that redundancy and creative chaos will automatically lead to innovations. Therefore I appreciate the efforts taken to bring ogg support to the maemo platform. I experimented a little myself early this year with tremor, vorbis and theora. Til then we did not get much further - still no dsp assisted tremor support for the maemo platform. Many attempts are out there I just wish they would join forces now (after individual experimentation) so that the n8x0 users have a sustainable solution to listen to their ogg files. Hmm, I hope I got my thoughts across. I just want to encourage everyone to help this platform to mature. I believe that we are close to a turning point where internet tablets and mobile internet device's as well as smarter phones (openmoko) with there open source software will reach a critical mass! Regards Krischan PS: Did I mention yet that I love my 770 with the latest hacker edition and the plankton theme? ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi! First of all: Thanks for your review! You wouldn't believe how few feedback you get these days: The mogg d/l counters show that quite some people try it, but we get no feedback. So you're tempted to believe everybody is happy. So thanks again! Steve Greenland schrieb: Current state of ogg support, 17-October-2007. Firstly, for some unknown reason there are *two* different ogg support packages. One, from Tuomas Kulve, I'll call 'ogg-support'. The second, by Marko Nykanen and Tilman Vogel (according to the garage page,but see below), is 'mogg'. Yes, this is unfortunate. I think mogg existed first and I was surprised about the second attempt, but on the other hand at that time none of the mogg people had an IT OS 2007 scratchbox set up, so nobody can be blamed. I (silently - my fault) had hoped somebody (maybe Tuomas Kulve) would contact us to join on mogg some day and support it on the N800. Anyway, I did some clean-up work on the gstreamer tremor plugin. Some of these changes make it work with the maemo audio player and kagu. The changes are documented and can easily be diffed between the upstream tremor plugin and the mogg version. I mentioned this to Tuomas Kulve and he offered me to join his project. I have not responded yet and the reason is that he tries to maintain the whole gstreamer-plugins-bad package. I didn't want to do this as I was just interested in the tremor codec and because the package is quite edgy, I decided to separate the tremor plugin into its own package. I am really not keen on going back to the bad package. Actually, as soon as tremor get's kind of maintained again, it should leave the bad package anyway. Plus, I don't have an N800, so, blame me, I am a bit egoistic about investing more work in this, but vice versa, I'd be happy to have N800 developers (Tuomas?) on the mogg project! Mogg is available from r.m.o extras. Yea. The packages file shows the maintainer for 'mogg' to be Jussi Kukkonen. Libraries are pulled from r.m.o when available, no obvious dupes. Ok, I'll update that soon. Jussi Kukkonen recently left the project out of time constraints. Onto the players. Built in media player: doesn't work. Mogg claims that it should (and maybe it does in the IT2006 version), but it doesn't even find the files on the card. (It does find MP3s.) Ok, I am interested in this because it works on IT OS 2006. Do you have any hints, which files might be missing/wrong? /usr/share/mime/packages/ogg-vorbis.xml should register *.ogg as audio/x-vorbis and it seems on IT OS 2006, the audio player shows all files of type audio/*. So, long story short (too late!) I'm using kagu with the mogg libraries. Yes, me too. Thanks again! Tilman -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHFytW9ZPu6Yae8lkRApq8AJ41qi9+CXQSVhDJ84sRy97XJiQPqgCaAovK BdlD5vpSP+nLyxBmG6EmJw8= =tsJF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
John Rudd wrote: Kahlil Johnson wrote: Wow, still no OGG when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares about AAC, give us OGG. Huh. I have many AAC files. I have no OGG files. Why should even remotely care about OGG? How weird. I have no AAC files but a big bunch of ogg files, why should I even remotely care about AAC? IOW: What is the point you are trying to make? Or is this one of those you absolutely need it for interesting content in Europe, but it's absolutely useless for content in the Americas type situations? Huh? What does it have to do with America/Europe? It's about *open* and *free* music codecs - neither AAC nor MP3 are free. And I don't really see the problem with supporting *also* ogg. Cheers, Ralph pgpH1L2cI4u3I.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
On 10/18/07, Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: debug1: confirm x11 X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication. Interesting, it works here with openssh, and DISPLAY is :0.0 during that. My guess is dropbear does things differently. Unsetting DISPLAY, I get this: NameError: global name '_gtk' is not defined So what it looks like is that the import of pygtk (or gtk) is trying to initialize the X11 system, and failing. Maybe modifying the scanner so it doesn't do the import on the --install codepath? Pygame needs to read the screen depth (we're saving cache image according to the screen format, otherwise Kagu startup gets slower) so it won't work. I tried, though. If I was installing via the AM, and it hung for 150 seconds with no visible output, I'd be worried. There's a going back-and-forth progressbar in AM during installation. Some big packages or big dependencies also take long, so I think the userbase is used to this. -- Kemal ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 BTW, if you feel like it, you could put your review into http://maemo.org/community/wiki/playingoggfiles/ Regards, Tilman -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHF0JA9ZPu6Yae8lkRAsLKAKCB4NllU1puyGWYHJpfnozWDh0pdQCeOhS9 8KFdujLn3wpZ+JkILGEy0Tg= =Ai8X -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
ext Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (Digression: why am I not using the Application Manager? Well, besides the fact that apt-get is the One True Way, the AM is *slow*. And unreliable (upgrades and updates often fail, but work with apt-get). And there's no obvious way to upgrade packages except one at a time, which is both slow and tedious. End digression). I'm interested in this digression, sorry to distract from your main point. Can you give more information about how the AM is slower than apt-get? Do you need to perform too many clicks in the UI to get your task done, or do you have to wait longer until it has downloaded and installed the packages? Also, when you say that operations often fail, do you mean that the AM crashes or leaves your system in a inconsistent state, or do you mean that the AM doesn't find solutions to satisfy all dependencies whereas apt-get is able to find a solution and proceed? We will finally get a Update All button in Diablo. (In all likelihood it will just run all the updates one after the other instead of all at once as apt-get upgrade would do.) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: External Monitor with N800
You don't need a dongle, no. Just a cable. If you have a miniDVI port on a device, then you can have a simple cable that is: 1) MiniDVI to HDMI (just the video signals) 2) MiniDVI to DVI 3) MiniDVI to VGA* 4) MiniDVI to Video* (* only if the dvi hardware supports DVI-A (the analog pins)) HDMI can't do #3 nor #4, because its video pins are DVI minus DVI-A, so it is ultimately less flexible. You can't easily connect it to a VGA monitor nor analog TV. That's why I prefer DVI over HDMI. And, I'm not suggesting the need for analog because I think it's still important to support analog. I'm suggesting it so that those who want to use their internet tablet as a light weight mobile workstation can do so cheaply. Just pick up any VGA monitor, or even an old TV, and you're in business. You probably can fill this niche without even buying anything. Mike Klein wrote: Then you'd have to have a dongle, no? Dongles are evil...I carry around too much crap already. Why would you prefer dvi? If it were hdmi...it w/have to be v1.3? cause this is only version that supports HD video with audiosupposedly earlier hdmi versions wouldn't support full audio when doing 1080p. mike John Rudd wrote: Aside from substituting DVI with DVI-A for HDMI, I agree. It'd be nice to see decent video out on the internet tablets. Mike Klein wrote: I think we'll see this soon enough...especially nice for higher-res pdas/etc. OQO has hdmi out...and I think they're the only ones with such a thing. When you move your umpc/ppc into new context/environment...you will want to replace inputs and outputs (speakers, screen, mic, keybd, etc.)...ideally all thru bluetoothbut bt imaging is kinda weak still I think. Then you've truly got a modular heart/brains unit that can be used standalone or integrated into larger device when in car, etc. I consider addition of hdmi out to these class of devices a must-have almost. mike Kalle Valo wrote: ext Dr. Nicholas Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My wife would like to display presentations, that reside on the N800, directly to a monitor without using another computer (such as what I do with VNC). In other words, presentation runs on the N800 and output displays on an external monitor. I believe we had a similar discussion several months back. Is this possible? The answer was, I believe, no but I want to verify. You are correct, N810 does not have video output. But there was a similar question posted to lwn.net and someone suggested to use USB2VGA for that: http://lwn.net/Articles/254916/ http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/HowTo/AddVGAAdapter It might or might not work. But this would be a hacker project, not for normal users. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Krischan Keitsch wrote: Am Donnerstag, 18. Oktober 2007 schrieb John Rudd: Kahlil Johnson wrote: Wow, still no OGG when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares about AAC, give us OGG. Huh. I have many AAC files. I have no OGG files. Why should even remotely care about OGG? Or is this one of those you absolutely need it for interesting content in Europe, but it's absolutely useless for content in the Americas type situations? confused ??? Sorry John, I didn't get your point. What does ogg support have to do with Europe / America? /confused Just trying to figure out why OGG seems to be a non-issue among people I interact with regularly, but a big issue for some others. It was just a hunch that it might be another difference in media formats between here and there (which do happen every so often). However, we can't have enough codex, eh? Choice is good. But wanting one more media is different from trashing one (popular) media format with rant inducing requests for another one. Especially when I'm not aware of any real media source that only uses OGG (thus making the only way to access their content being support OGG). So I was just asking why I would want to support OGG at the expense of AAC. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Ralph Angenendt wrote: John Rudd wrote: Kahlil Johnson wrote: Wow, still no OGG when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares about AAC, give us OGG. Huh. I have many AAC files. I have no OGG files. Why should even remotely care about OGG? How weird. I have no AAC files but a big bunch of ogg files, why should I even remotely care about AAC? IOW: What is the point you are trying to make? Pretty simple: why should I be upset (or sympathetic to the upset that Kahlil was expressing by trashing another format) about the lack of OGG support, or the presence of AAC support. Or is this one of those you absolutely need it for interesting content in Europe, but it's absolutely useless for content in the Americas type situations? Huh? What does it have to do with America/Europe? It's about *open* and *free* music codecs - neither AAC nor MP3 are free. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with America/Europe. The question was asking _does_ it have something to do with America/Europe ... as in, I'm trying to figure out why OGG support would be so important as to induce the comments Kahlil made. And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Given all of the other things that are on Nokia's plate for the internet tablet development, why should OGG be a priority? What thing only comes in OGG format, that they need to support now, instead of later? Or that they need to support directly, instead of leaving to the efforts of 3rd party support? I'm as interested in open and free as the next person, but there's nothing about the comment I was replying to that captures that. And I don't really see the problem with supporting *also* ogg. I don't either. But that's clearly not what the initial request was about, or it wouldn't have also attacked another format. By asserting a value judgment about AAC vs OGG, that then leaves the question of what value is actually being implied in that assertion. If the person just wanted another format to be supported, then they could have just said that. But they didn't. If they just wanted an open/free format to be supported, then they could have just said that. But they didn't. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Found out why BT sound is choppy.
Not sure where to go next on this. (beyond bug filing) Kagu is definitely the culprit. in that something about updating the screen causes BT sound to cut out. If you shrink the screen and open for example the browser scrolling and surfing has no affect on sound. But if you are doing anything with the kagu UI sound cuts out. BTW anyone gotten any of the other apps to play sound over BT? mpd: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mpd Download the a2dpd package. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
On 10/18/07, John Rudd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ralph Angenendt wrote: John Rudd wrote: Kahlil Johnson wrote: Wow, still no OGG when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares about AAC, give us OGG. Huh. I have many AAC files. I have no OGG files. Why should even remotely care about OGG? How weird. I have no AAC files but a big bunch of ogg files, why should I even remotely care about AAC? IOW: What is the point you are trying to make? Pretty simple: why should I be upset (or sympathetic to the upset that Kahlil was expressing by trashing another format) about the lack of OGG support, or the presence of AAC support. Or is this one of those you absolutely need it for interesting content in Europe, but it's absolutely useless for content in the Americas type situations? Huh? What does it have to do with America/Europe? It's about *open* and *free* music codecs - neither AAC nor MP3 are free. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with America/Europe. The question was asking _does_ it have something to do with America/Europe ... as in, I'm trying to figure out why OGG support would be so important as to induce the comments Kahlil made. And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Given all of the other things that are on Nokia's plate for the internet tablet development, why should OGG be a priority? What thing only comes in OGG format, that they need to support now, instead of later? Or that they need to support directly, instead of leaving to the efforts of 3rd party support? Well for one OGG is the default audio format for Linux. FLAC and OGG are almost supported by default under the Gstreamer framework which is what Maemo used for it's audio (AFAIK). The development of yet another audio player exclusively for OGG seems a waste of development. Adding ogg to gstreamer and enabling the media player to recognize the format looks like an easier development and less confusing for it's users. If I get a 3rd party app for OGG I will need to split my playlists that includes Mp3 / OGG. From a User Experience it just deteriorate not having OGG support. As for what is being distributed on OGG-only format. Most of the podcast that I listen to I get the OGG feed for them. Podcast are one of the internet's best growing initatives in audio consumption and having a Linux handheld that can be used as a media player and not support a primarily Linux standard seems like a bad design decision. What things come in AAC only form now? I'm as interested in open and free as the next person, but there's nothing about the comment I was replying to that captures that. And I don't really see the problem with supporting *also* ogg. I don't either. But that's clearly not what the initial request was about, or it wouldn't have also attacked another format. By asserting a value judgment about AAC vs OGG, that then leaves the question of what value is actually being implied in that assertion. AAC was an example, could have pic another proprietary format other than MP3. Sure Mp3 is the commercial standard for audio but it doesn't just support mp3 but other formats, formats that are even less used. If the person just wanted another format to be supported, then they could have just said that. But they didn't. If they just wanted an open/free format to be supported, then they could have just said that. But they didn't. Well OGG support has been requested many times in this list. Having to ask for support of OGG wouldn't be my main complain but that they not just have ignored the support for OGG but also expanding to other formats that doesn't necessarily add value to me. In other words, why you give me bacon when I been asking you for more lettuce for almost 2 years now? Now just to finish my soapbox, I wonder how really open is this apps. We all know the framework is open but can you just submit a patch to the default media player that maemo comes with and expect to have the change implement on the next version? -- Kahlil Johnson Ya tengo GMAIL!! ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
chinook
does anyone have anything built to test? love to try some apps on the N810 ... -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: chinook
On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 11:11:32AM -0400, Jonathan Greene wrote: does anyone have anything built to test? love to try some apps on the N810 Guess what? :) You can try FBReader... :)) We'll make it official soonish, at the moment you can find a version in deb http://only.mawhrin.net/~mss/fb ./ Any feedback is welcome :) Kind Regards -- Misha signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
According to Marius Vollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Can you give more information about how the AM is slower than apt-get? Do you need to perform too many clicks in the UI to get your task done, or do you have to wait longer until it has downloaded and installed the packages? Mostly it's the clicking/browsing issue. Also, the waiting for the lists to update in the UI. Part of the problem is that completely random sectioning, which makes it pretty much infeasible to browse except in the all section (yes, I've got red-pill enabled). With that list, scrolling is awkward. Just being able to filter out packages beginning with lib would be useful. The sectioning problem goes back to not have standard repos, real project policy, etc. I doubt the actual *actions* are slower (modulo UI list updates), but it's a heck of a lot faster for me to type apt-get install foo than browse in the AM. Also, given the many repos I've got listed, I'm a heavy user of apt-cache policy to figure out just where packages are coming from. I was going to complain that the AM didn't show what new dependencies were going to be installed by a particular package, but I just looked, and there *is* a tab with that info. Is that a new with the recent firmware upgrade, or was I just blind before? It would be nice if the AM would allow you to re-configure (in the dpkg sense) a partially installed app, without requiring an uninstall/reinstall. Probably an appropriate label would be try to fix broken packages. But mostly it's the fact that I'm extremely comfortable with the apt-get/apt-cache/dpkg command lines. I don't use synaptic, either. Oh, and while you're reading: it would be *really nice* to have dependency tracking, like aptitude. This means that when you install foo, and it requires bar and baz, and you later remove foo, the tool remembers that bar and bas were automatically installed only to support foo, and removes those as well (assuming no other package also needs bar or baz, of course). The latest apt suite has this built in, so maybe it wouldn't be too hard? Also, when you say that operations often fail, do you mean that the AM crashes or leaves your system in a inconsistent state, or do you mean that the AM doesn't find solutions to satisfy all dependencies whereas apt-get is able to find a solution and proceed? Mostly I mean that updates and installs fail, downloads hang, etc. But now that I think about it (rather than shooting my mouth off randomly), this probably isn't your problem. I only use the AM when I'm away from home, and I'm going to guess that it's an issue of the sites crappy wifi, since I also have problems browsing there. We will finally get a Update All button in Diablo. Yea! But should be Upgrade All, for consistency with apt terminology. :-) (In all likelihood it will just run all the updates one after the other instead of all at once as apt-get upgrade would do.) That's fine, and makes perfect sense for environment. thanks for reading my rant, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Begin to program in C
Hi, maybe you could help me. I have been trying to find something in Google, but without success. There is too much information that has nothing to do with what I am looking for. I would like to begin programming in C in my 770, and would like some link to tutorial about that. I have found information about developers of maemo applications, but that is not yet my goal. I only want to use the gcc compiler in my 770, but I need some help in the first programs, because of different libraries than usual and things like that. Is there any helloworld tutorial for C in 770? By the way, I have tried to install g++ but gave me errors because of different versions of ligc6. Any hint about that? I am using OS 2006.49.2 Thank you, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: chinook
does anyone have anything built to test? love to try some apps on the N810 ... And we'd love to see the output of dmesg right after boot. I'd also be interested to see the contents of the initfs' kernel module directory (pvr.ko are you there? :) ) and the contents of /lib/dsp/modules/. I'm sure there are other things people would like to know about too Cheers, Simon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Greene Sent: 18 October 2007 16:12 To: maemo-users Subject: chinook does anyone have anything built to test? love to try some apps on the N810 ... -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
According to Krischan Keitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED]: to a) Were are all the apps? One thing that we are missing is a 'distribution' (the debian or ubuntu way) with primary repositories and additional repos. etc. Actually, I think we *have* that repo: repository.maemo.org. The problem is that there is no obvious, straightforward way for Jill Random to get her packages into the repo. Is this documented anywhere? A quick browse of maemo.org didn't find anything. But as I noted, there seems to be some plans to improve this situation. And, admittedly, it's not as easy as just letting anonymous people upload. Any package can trash the entire system, via the install hooks. Debian deals with this by making it so painful to become an official developer that the asshats won't make the effort. OTOH, the current situation encourages the addition of random repos to the source list, so basically is no different than letting random people upload. Given that the official nokia repos are still screwed up w.r.t. package signing (see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2067), we're training the users to ignore/avoid any security stuff anyway. Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
According to Kemal Hadimli [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 10/18/07, Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: debug1: confirm x11 X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication. Interesting, it works here with openssh, and DISPLAY is :0.0 during that. My guess is dropbear does things differently. Hmmm. Dropbear is trying to run /usr/bin/X11/xauth, which doesn't exist. Maybe openssh has the required functionality built in? Pygame needs to read the screen depth (we're saving cache image according to the screen format, otherwise Kagu startup gets slower) so it won't work. I tried, though. Ah. Well, I'm probably the only one trying to do this. And it looks like it's more of a problem with dropbear/xauth anyway. Hmm, that might be a problem, though -- pygame is going to pick up the screen depth of my desktop, not the N800. Thanks, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Begin to program in C
The oldest resource is the TLDP or The Linux Documentation Project: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/GCC-Frontend-HOWTO.html On 10/18/07, sebastian maemo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, maybe you could help me. I have been trying to find something in Google, but without success. There is too much information that has nothing to do with what I am looking for. I would like to begin programming in C in my 770, and would like some link to tutorial about that. I have found information about developers of maemo applications, but that is not yet my goal. I only want to use the gcc compiler in my 770, but I need some help in the first programs, because of different libraries than usual and things like that. Is there any helloworld tutorial for C in 770? By the way, I have tried to install g++ but gave me errors because of different versions of ligc6. Any hint about that? I am using OS 2006.49.2 Thank you, Sebas. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Kahlil Johnson Ya tengo GMAIL!! ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
ext Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: According to Marius Vollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Can you give more information about how the AM is slower than apt-get? Do you need to perform too many clicks in the UI to get your task done, or do you have to wait longer until it has downloaded and installed the packages? Mostly it's the clicking/browsing issue. Ok, understood. This seems to be the general I am much more productive at the command line than with a WIMP interface situation. I can very much symphatize with that, but it mostly means that the Application Manager is not for you. It is perfectly fine and supported to use apt-get on the device. Having apt-get on the device is not just some artifact, it's the intended power-user interface that makes it acceptable for us to keep the Application Manager pretty basic. I am happy that the AM seems to be good enough that some hackers actually consider using it instead of apt-get or Synaptic, but UI-wise it only really is intended to manage smallish bundles of packages that make up applications. Activating the show all packages setting in red-pill mode is pretty much useless with its UI, for example. (My standard settings are: don't show all packages, don't show dependencies, but show magic:sys. That keeps the lists short and I still can update the hidden packages.) Also, the waiting for the lists to update in the UI. Yes, there is potential for optimization here. I was going to complain that the AM didn't show what new dependencies were going to be installed by a particular package, but I just looked, and there *is* a tab with that info. Is that a new with the recent firmware upgrade, or was I just blind before? That info was always there (since IT OS 2006). It would be nice if the AM would allow you to re-configure (in the dpkg sense) a partially installed app, without requiring an uninstall/reinstall. Probably an appropriate label would be try to fix broken packages. Yeah, except we don't want to have a magic Try to fix things button in the UI. We are planning to silently reconfigure packages automatically to unbreak them. This will get more important when we support updating system packages, which you obviously can't remove+install to unbreak them. Oh, and while you're reading: it would be *really nice* to have dependency tracking, like aptitude. This means that when you install foo, and it requires bar and baz, and you later remove foo, the tool remembers that bar and bas were automatically installed only to support foo, and removes those as well (assuming no other package also needs bar or baz, of course). The latest apt suite has this built in, so maybe it wouldn't be too hard? The Application Manager should actually do this (since IT OS 2006). However, it keeps its own information about packages that have been installed to satisfy dependencies (since our version of apt doesn't and I was not brave enough to fix libapt-pkg itself). Thus, it will only automatically remove a package that it has installed itself. (In other words, it is conservative when removing things. Not like aptitude that goes and deletes half your OS if you are not careful.. :) There is no explicit autoremove action. Rather, invisible packages are automatically removed together with the visible packages that depend on them. Check /var/lib/osso-application-installer/autoinst to see which packages are eligible for automatic removal. I want to let libapt-pkg do the book keeping in the next release, of course. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
According to John Rudd [EMAIL PROTECTED]: And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Actually, it is about being open and free. Nokia promotes the tablet as an open platform, and is using huge amounts of free software as the basis for its product. To ignore ogg-vorbis support, which *is* an important feature for many of us (and far more valuable, to *me*, than WMA and AAC support), and is pretty much the only free-as-in-freedom codec, is a bit of a slap in the face. Some of us do have political agendas, such as promoting the use of free software. That Nokia uses our software (as is their right, according to our licenses), but then promotes non-free codecs/software, is a bit sad. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Been meaning to reply back to this thread been hectic here. My device is pre-release and has a slip case which I believe will be included. Ogg is not included for codec licensing issues... Form factor is excellent as is the build and it will apparently get a bit better over the course of the pre-release period along with the updates to the OS for release. Non-Powered USB...can't charge - not sure about keyboard, but I assume not and it's the micro-USB variety. MiniSD gives you up to 10GB storage with the internal ... US / Canada maps are preinstalled in much (think it's around1.8GB) of the 2GB internal and non-removable card which is how you get 256 free there. Wimax is next year... I've been told it's later. No FM radio either... Anything else - I'll likely have an overview blog post up in the next 24-48 hours once i get back to NY have time to think it out a bit with some extended use. If there's something specific you'd like to know, please let me know... On 10/18/07, Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to John Rudd [EMAIL PROTECTED]: And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Actually, it is about being open and free. Nokia promotes the tablet as an open platform, and is using huge amounts of free software as the basis for its product. To ignore ogg-vorbis support, which *is* an important feature for many of us (and far more valuable, to *me*, than WMA and AAC support), and is pretty much the only free-as-in-freedom codec, is a bit of a slap in the face. Some of us do have political agendas, such as promoting the use of free software. That Nokia uses our software (as is their right, according to our licenses), but then promotes non-free codecs/software, is a bit sad. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Dev program - http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1192708879.html On 10/17/07, Sergey Udaltsov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Will there be developer's device program, like for n800? Cheers, Sergey ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
On 10/18/07, Jonathan Greene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ogg is not included for codec licensing issues... Care to expand on this point? Which licensing issues? (from Xiph's FAQ for Vorbis -- http://www.vorbis.com/faq/#flic) What licensing applies to the Ogg Vorbis format? The Ogg Vorbis specification is in the public domain. It is completely free for commercial or noncommercial use. That means that commercial developers may independently write Ogg Vorbis software which is compatible with the specification for no charge and without restrictions of any kind. However, the software packages we have developed are available under various free/open-source software licenses with varying allowances and restrictions. What licensing applies to the included Ogg Vorbis software? Most (but not all) of our utility software is released under the terms of the GNU GPL. The libraries and SDKs are released under our BSD-like license. Note that developers are still free to use the specification to write implementations of Ogg Vorbis licensed under other terms. -- =Wayne ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 08:16:51PM +0300, Marius Vollmer wrote: I am happy that the AM seems to be good enough that some hackers actually consider using it instead of apt-get You know what the killer feature is? Automatic wifi connection. I absolutely hate it when I have to tap the silly little globe, then tap the connect menu item, then wait a few boring seconds for my wifi network to appear, then press ok. Only then I can ssh into my n800 and use apt-get. I could keep my tablet online all the time, of course, but then the battery wouldn't last till the end of the day. My personal pet peeve with the app manager is all those confirmation dialogs. Marius Gedminas -- Remember the... the... uhh. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
According to Marius Vollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ext Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mostly it's the clicking/browsing issue. Ok, understood. This seems to be the general I am much more productive at the command line than with a WIMP interface situation. I can very much symphatize with that, but it mostly means that the Application Manager is not for you. It is perfectly fine and supported to use apt-get on the device. Having apt-get on the device is not just some artifact, it's the intended power-user interface that makes it acceptable for us to keep the Application Manager pretty basic. That's a completely reasonable design decision, as is your point about the magic fix things button. [AM showing newly-installed dependencies] That info was always there (since IT OS 2006). Well, then I was blind. Not the first time... [Auto-dependency tracking] The Application Manager should actually do this (since IT OS 2006). [*snip*] (In other words, it is conservative when removing things. Not like aptitude that goes and deletes half your OS if you are not careful.. :) Aww, cmon, this is mostly fixed in aptitude these days. Besides, it made life exciting! Check /var/lib/osso-application-installer/autoinst to see which packages are eligible for automatic removal. Mine's empty, but I probably haven't installed anything to trigger it via the AM since the re-flash. I want to let libapt-pkg do the book keeping in the next release, of course. Excellent news. Thanks, steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 04:48:35PM +, Steve Greenland wrote: According to Krischan Keitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED]: to a) Were are all the apps? One thing that we are missing is a 'distribution' (the debian or ubuntu way) with primary repositories and additional repos. etc. Actually, I think we *have* that repo: repository.maemo.org. The problem is that there is no obvious, straightforward way for Jill Random to get her packages into the repo. Is this documented anywhere? A quick browse of maemo.org didn't find anything. http://maemo.org/community/application-catalog/extras_repository.html I still haven't found the time to do that and instead keep the few packages I need in my ad-hoc repository :( But as I noted, there seems to be some plans to improve this situation. And, admittedly, it's not as easy as just letting anonymous people upload. Any package can trash the entire system, via the install hooks. Debian deals with this by making it so painful to become an official developer that the asshats won't make the effort. I think Ubuntu's MOTU model is worth looking at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU OTOH, the current situation encourages the addition of random repos to the source list, so basically is no different than letting random people upload. My other pet peeve is that this encourages binary-only debs which you can't then fix/port to a different SDK version. I sincerely hope Maemo Extras rejects sourceless packages. Marius Gedminas -- Did you know that 7/5 people don't know how to use fractions? signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, Marius Gedminas wrote: I could keep my tablet online all the time, of course, but then the battery wouldn't last till the end of the day. Have you tried? My N800 is always connected and the battery lasts a couple of days. Only when I start hitting the CPU it starts to drain faster. Using it 1-2 hours a day reading e-books (fbreader rocks!) it lasts well over 3 days. Best regards, Jac --- Jac KersingTechnical Consultant The-Box Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] CISSP RHCEhttp://www.the-box.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Why the heck would they remove the FM Radio? And go down to 1 memory slot? I guess that one could be because of the placement of the keyboard. It sure would be nice if we could charge from the USB and host unpowered on the USB. I assume that the hosting is a question of support and battery life. Gary Baribault Courriel: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG Key: 0x4346F013 GPG Fingerprint: BCE8 2E6B EB39 9B23 6904 1DF4 C4E6 2CF7 4346 F013 Jonathan Greene wrote: Been meaning to reply back to this thread been hectic here. My device is pre-release and has a slip case which I believe will be included. Ogg is not included for codec licensing issues... Form factor is excellent as is the build and it will apparently get a bit better over the course of the pre-release period along with the updates to the OS for release. Non-Powered USB...can't charge - not sure about keyboard, but I assume not and it's the micro-USB variety. MiniSD gives you up to 10GB storage with the internal ... US / Canada maps are preinstalled in much (think it's around1.8GB) of the 2GB internal and non-removable card which is how you get 256 free there. Wimax is next year... I've been told it's later. No FM radio either... Anything else - I'll likely have an overview blog post up in the next 24-48 hours once i get back to NY have time to think it out a bit with some extended use. If there's something specific you'd like to know, please let me know... On 10/18/07, *Steve Greenland* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to John Rudd [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Actually, it is about being open and free. Nokia promotes the tablet as an open platform, and is using huge amounts of free software as the basis for its product. To ignore ogg-vorbis support, which *is* an important feature for many of us (and far more valuable, to *me*, than WMA and AAC support), and is pretty much the only free-as-in-freedom codec, is a bit of a slap in the face. Some of us do have political agendas, such as promoting the use of free software. That Nokia uses our software (as is their right, according to our licenses), but then promotes non-free codecs/software, is a bit sad. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org mailto:maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: N810 is here
Jonathan, thanks for the updates! Nick. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Greene Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 11:38 AM To: maemo-users@maemo.org Subject: Re: N810 is here Been meaning to reply back to this thread been hectic here. My device is pre-release and has a slip case which I believe will be included. Ogg is not included for codec licensing issues... Form factor is excellent as is the build and it will apparently get a bit better over the course of the pre-release period along with the updates to the OS for release. Non-Powered USB...can't charge - not sure about keyboard, but I assume not and it's the micro-USB variety. MiniSD gives you up to 10GB storage with the internal ... US / Canada maps are preinstalled in much (think it's around1.8GB) of the 2GB internal and non-removable card which is how you get 256 free there. Wimax is next year... I've been told it's later. No FM radio either... Anything else - I'll likely have an overview blog post up in the next 24-48 hours once i get back to NY have time to think it out a bit with some extended use. If there's something specific you'd like to know, please let me know... On 10/18/07, Steve Greenland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to John Rudd mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Actually, it is about being open and free. Nokia promotes the tablet as an open platform, and is using huge amounts of free software as the basis for its product. To ignore ogg-vorbis support, which *is* an important feature for many of us (and far more valuable, to *me*, than WMA and AAC support), and is pretty much the only free-as-in-freedom codec, is a bit of a slap in the face. Some of us do have political agendas, such as promoting the use of free software. That Nokia uses our software (as is their right, according to our licenses), but then promotes non-free codecs/software, is a bit sad. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
The radio was cut as it did not fit ... Same on the memory slots and the card type On 10/18/07, Gary Baribault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why the heck would they remove the FM Radio? And go down to 1 memory slot? I guess that one could be because of the placement of the keyboard. It sure would be nice if we could charge from the USB and host unpowered on the USB. I assume that the hosting is a question of support and battery life. Gary Baribault Courriel: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG Key: 0x4346F013 GPG Fingerprint: BCE8 2E6B EB39 9B23 6904 1DF4 C4E6 2CF7 4346 F013 Jonathan Greene wrote: Been meaning to reply back to this thread been hectic here. My device is pre-release and has a slip case which I believe will be included. Ogg is not included for codec licensing issues... Form factor is excellent as is the build and it will apparently get a bit better over the course of the pre-release period along with the updates to the OS for release. Non-Powered USB...can't charge - not sure about keyboard, but I assume not and it's the micro-USB variety. MiniSD gives you up to 10GB storage with the internal ... US / Canada maps are preinstalled in much (think it's around1.8GB) of the 2GB internal and non-removable card which is how you get 256 free there. Wimax is next year... I've been told it's later. No FM radio either... Anything else - I'll likely have an overview blog post up in the next 24-48 hours once i get back to NY have time to think it out a bit with some extended use. If there's something specific you'd like to know, please let me know... On 10/18/07, *Steve Greenland* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to John Rudd [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Actually, it is about being open and free. Nokia promotes the tablet as an open platform, and is using huge amounts of free software as the basis for its product. To ignore ogg-vorbis support, which *is* an important feature for many of us (and far more valuable, to *me*, than WMA and AAC support), and is pretty much the only free-as-in-freedom codec, is a bit of a slap in the face. Some of us do have political agendas, such as promoting the use of free software. That Nokia uses our software (as is their right, according to our licenses), but then promotes non-free codecs/software, is a bit sad. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org mailto:maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
And, no, it's not about open and free. Since the developers in question are Nokia (since the comment was directed at the release of the N810 itself, and not a request for more 3rd party development), it's about how much effort the developers need to put into supporting something vs. the amount of return they get from supporting it. Actually, it is about being open and free. Nokia promotes the tablet as an open platform, and is using huge amounts of free software as the basis for its product. To ignore ogg-vorbis support, which *is* an important feature for many of us (and far more valuable, to *me*, than WMA and AAC support), and is pretty much the only free-as-in-freedom codec, is a bit of a slap in the face. Some of us do have political agendas, such as promoting the use of free software. That Nokia uses our software (as is their right, according to our licenses), but then promotes non-free codecs/software, is a bit sad. Vorbis support would be excellent (as would speex for voip and theora for video) but I suspect for Nokia the majority of people that buy the Tablets wouldn't know what any of them are let alone probably care. Ultimately the continued development of the Internet Tablets, OS 200x and maemo by Nokia depends on whether they make money or not so for the mainstream wma and aac is probably more of a focus for them. On the flipside of the above I've seen posts of people on the mailing list getting basic DSP processing up and running (G711 from memory), there's the fixed point implementation of vorbis (called Tremor http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/Tremor) which had notes and details on the mailing list regarding the TI DSP so it probably wouldn't take someone with some experience in this plus some gstreamer (I'm sure some of the GST devs would be able to 'assist' (by this I mean helping with the GST interface to the DSP if there isn't details available already) with this as some have worked with nokia on these devices). Then there's the DSP Gateway site http://dspgateway.sourceforge.net/pub/index.php which has details of programming them too. So when it comes down to it most of the required/hard parts of vorbis support (and probably speex to as it too has fixed point DSP implementations) are already there. It just needs some smart programmers to bolt the required bits together not being one of those I don't know what exactly is required but I don't remember anyone try it on the mailing list other than the G711 (... I think) example. Pete ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 09:15:39PM +0200, Jac Kersing wrote: On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, Marius Gedminas wrote: I could keep my tablet online all the time, of course, but then the battery wouldn't last till the end of the day. Have you tried? Yes. My N800 is always connected and the battery lasts a couple of days. Only when I start hitting the CPU it starts to drain faster. Using it 1-2 hours a day reading e-books (fbreader rocks!) it lasts well over 3 days. I probably use it for 3-6 hours a day reading e-books. It depends on the day (weekday/weekend) and the book (sometimes I just can't... stop... reading..., which does results in things happening to my sleep schedule). Also, I have this paranoid habit of looking for a charger as soon as the battery meter drops from 4 bars to 3. At some point I decided the extra convenience of having an always-on tablet wasn't worth the occasional inconvenience of having to recharge sooner. Marius Gedminas -- Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
According to Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Onto the players. Austin Che wrote and pointed out that I'd missed the MPD (music player daemon) port. This intrigued, because I use and quite like MPD on my home system. For those unfamiliar with it, it splits the player into the server process that actually does the playing and file management, and an independent client to send instructions. There are many clients available, from the standard command line 'mpc' to GUI and web-based clients. The client doesn't have to be on the same machine, although of course for a standalone N800 they'd need to be. So I installed mpd and a bunch of libraries from garage.mpd.org. (Insert usual rant about packages not in repo). There's also other dependencies that are in the repo, but you still have to deal with them by hand because dpkg doesn't know to call apt-get. (Installing via the AM may make this easier.) One notable dependency is adduser, which brings in perl5-base. All this so we can create an 'mpd' user on the install. While this makes sense in a standard desktop or server situation, and is normal Debian practice, on the single user N800 system this could just as easily run as 'user', avoiding a pretty big dependency. I modified /etc/mpd.conf to point to /media/mmc1/oggs, and ran /usr/bin/mpd --create-database to scan the files, and /etc/init.d/mpd restart to restart the daemon. For clients, I tried both mmpc and glurp (which is nominally ITS2006, but seems to work on ITS2007 fine.) MMPC has a simpler interface. Glurp has a more complete interface, but the tiny buttons pretty much require a stylus for fat-fingered people like me. MMPC doesn't seem to have a way to add an entire album to the playlist at once. Glurp browses the library by filesystem layout, rather than using the tags to sort by artist/album. Glurp allows you to request a library update (aka rescan); MMPC doesn't. Glurp struggled with my home servers ~4000 entry playlist; MMPC did better. Try'em both; I'll probably stay with MMPC for remote controlling my home system... ...but MPD is not a good solution for an N800 standalone player *at this time*. There are two big issues. 1. CPU usage. MPD doesn't use the tremor vorbis library, and thus playing an ogg sucks down about 75% of the CPU. In comparison, with Kagu, the osso-media-server process uses about 25% of the CPU. (Kagu sucks another 10-15% if the screen is active.) 2. As a straight port of the Debian MPD package, the mpd server restarts automatically on reboot *and resumes playing the oggs*. This is not good, because it slows down the rest of the reboot process quite a bit, and, since there isn't any free CPU, it sounds *dreadful*. Both of those are fixable. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
On 10/18/07, Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: schedule). Also, I have this paranoid habit of looking for a charger as soon as the battery meter drops from 4 bars to 3. yep. the battery meter is not accurate/linear. it takes ages to drop from 4 bars to 3. then it takes less and less time to drop levels, until it reaches one bar. at one bar it takes relatively long go battery low too. At some point I decided the extra convenience of having an always-on tablet wasn't worth the occasional inconvenience of having to recharge sooner. i keep mine always connected, no problems. of course i don't keep it always connected via bluetooth when i'm on the street, otherwise my phone battery dies just too quickly. though finding a thick nokia charger on the go is easy, walk into almost any store and ask for permission to use their nokia charger. plug your phone in, and roam around in the shop for a few minutes. you'll get a few bars on the phone. that's not possible with the thin charger jack yet. (and it takes longer to charge the 5L battery, possibly due to high capacity compared to cellphones) -- Kemal ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
According to Peter Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Vorbis support would be excellent (as would speex for voip and theora for video) but I suspect for Nokia the majority of people that buy the Tablets wouldn't know what any of them are let alone probably care. Ultimately the continued development of the Internet Tablets, OS 200x and maemo by Nokia depends on whether they make money or not so for the mainstream wma and aac is probably more of a focus for them. Oh, sure, I know that. Even I have much higher priority items for Nokia to get working on, things 3rd parties can't do, like getting proper Debian upgrades working (flash the ROM, feh!). [vorbis/tremor and DSP] So when it comes down to it most of the required/hard parts of vorbis support (and probably speex to as it too has fixed point DSP implementations) are already there. It just needs some smart programmers to bolt the required bits together Actually, it's already done -- both ogg-support and mogg seem to use the tremor implementation (although maybe not on the DSP). It's a little confusing to get working right now (see my ranty review), but a little cleanup and things will be quite usable. Regards, Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 08:39:10PM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: So when it comes down to it most of the required/hard parts of vorbis support (and probably speex to as it too has fixed point DSP implementations) are already there. It just needs some smart programmers to bolt the required bits together not being one of those I don't know what exactly is required but I don't remember anyone try it on the mailing list other than the G711 (... I think) example. Check out the other thread (Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support). People are bolting the bits together, it's just hard to get it right. Marius Gedminas -- Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi again! Steve Greenland schrieb: After the re-install, I've got /usr/share/mime/audio/x-vorbis.xml, which is: ?xml version=1.0 encoding=utf-8? mime-type xmlns=http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/shared-mime-info; type=audio/x-vorbis !--Created automatically by update-mime-database. DO NOT EDIT!-- commentOGG audio/comment /mime-type The 'globs' file does have audio/x-vorbis:*.ogg. However, the categories file, in category audio, has application/ogg but NOT audio/x-vorbis. Maybe that's the problem? Maybe, but at least it's the same on IT OS 2006. Throwing caution to the wind, I recklessly and irresponsibly violated the DO NOT EDIT! instruction and added audio/x-vorbis by hand. However, the media player still doesn't find the oggs. Bugger. Did you reboot in between? Maybe the media server needs to be restarted for that to take effect. Could be that on 2007 the media server uses categories? There's also a magic file, but that's in some sort of binary format that even I don't want to mess with. Kind of. Its some magic strings to recognize file type from the content. It's also coming from /usr/share/mime/packages/ogg-vorbis.xml. Actually, I currently don't really have an idea why this is not working on the N800... Sorry, Tilman -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHF8Ga9ZPu6Yae8lkRAjpMAJwLmourdi9BnF14xTgOSwiNuWRHOgCfeF5A C2jA1kCuCkqOK3SD/8GWqnI= =Pi7p -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
how to turn off and lock the n800 (answer)
Kemal On 10/11/07, Daniel M German [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** Soft-power off mode. I have enabled it with a long press of the on-button. Unfortunately it does not disable the keys. It would be nice if it did, except for a long-press of the on-botton again. Kemal softpoweroff works better if you assign it to the short press. I use Kemal it that way and it also locks the keys. I also made it so that the Kemal long press brings up the power menu. thanks Kemal, I finally had time to try this and it works as Kemal explains. So recapitulating, for those who were asking how to do it: * When the PowerKeyShortAction=softpoweroff the keys are locked * When the PowerKeyLongAction=softpoweroff the keys are NOT locked If you are interested in having the keys locked and the display turned off in one single action: * modify /etc/mce/mce.ini (be careful, and make a backup copy just in case): change PowerKeyShortAction to: PowerKeyShortAction=softpoweroff and change PowerKeyLongAction to: PowerKeyLongAction=menu * now if you press the power button (I) 1) Short press - turn off screen, and lock keys, and disable screen sensitivity To wake it up - press (I) for at least 1.5 seconds (this is the default timeout for longPress) 2) Long press (at least 1.5 seconds) - brings menu up --daniel -- Daniel M. German http://turingmachine.org/ http://silvernegative.com/ dmg (at) uvic (dot) ca replace (at) with @ and (dot) with . ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 is here
Am Donnerstag, 18. Oktober 2007 schrieb Ralph Angenendt: John Rudd wrote: Kahlil Johnson wrote: Wow, still no OGG when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares about AAC, give us OGG. Huh. I have many AAC files. I have no OGG files. Why should even remotely care about OGG? How weird. I have no AAC files but a big bunch of ogg files, why should I even remotely care about AAC? IOW: What is the point you are trying to make? Or is this one of those you absolutely need it for interesting content in Europe, but it's absolutely useless for content in the Americas type situations? Huh? What does it have to do with America/Europe? It's about *open* and *free* music codecs - neither AAC nor MP3 are free. And I don't really see the problem with supporting *also* ogg. Cheers, Ralph I couldn't agree more! Krischan ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
According to Austin Che [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve Greenland): ...but MPD is not a good solution for an N800 standalone player *at this time*. There are two big issues. I just have to say I've been using mpd exclusively as my media player for over a month and have been very happy with it (much more than my attempts with other media players). I mainly like it because it's unintrusive and I want a scriptable interface. Well, different needs/desires. 1. CPU usage. MPD doesn't use the tremor vorbis library, and thus playing an ogg sucks down about 75% of the CPU. In comparison, with Kagu, the osso-media-server process uses about 25% of the CPU. (Kagu sucks another 10-15% if the screen is active.) For me, playing mp3s, mpd always hovers around 10% cpu. I don't have oggs to play to compare. Ogg Vorbis is a lot more expensive to decode, because the standard libvorbis uses floating point, while (I *believe*) the standard MP3 decoders are fixed point. Or maybe its just that MP3 is cheaper to decode anyway. 2. As a straight port of the Debian MPD package, the mpd server restarts automatically on reboot *and resumes playing the oggs*. This is not good, because it slows down the rest of the reboot process quite a bit, and, since there isn't any free CPU, it sounds *dreadful*. I personally changed the priority of mpd's start. I moved it to S99mpd in /etc/rc2.d so it doesn't start until after everything is loaded. This should be the default, I think. And if it was playing before you rebooted, don't you want it to continue? No. My N800 gets restarted *a lot* more often than my home server. I realize (assume, anyway) you're just porting the standard Debian packages, but it is a different environment. Anyway, good news in your other post about using the tremor lib. I'll give it a shot. Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
According to James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]: a. open AM b. get asked if I want to update package lists. c. click to browse installable packages. d. wait for update packages (why it just did an update.) Actually, the update here is updating the soon-to-be-displayed list of uninstalled packages; it's not re-doing the download of the Packages files. Steve -- Steve Greenland The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world. -- seen on the net ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
On Thursday 18 October 2007 10:16:51 Marius Vollmer wrote:
ext Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
According to Marius Vollmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Can you give more information about how the AM is slower than apt-get?
Do you need to perform too many clicks in the UI to get your task
done, or do you have to wait longer until it has downloaded and
installed the packages?
The frustrations I have with AM are.
1. the update packages event. Every action requires that a full on rescan
of the system be done. Each one taking between 30 to 60 seconds to complete.
2. Searches that return me to the wrong screen. If for example I want to
install pidgin. I search for pidgin and rightfully get a number of packages
(many I need to install some I don't want period) I have to do the following.
a. open AM
b. get asked if I want to update package lists.
c. click to browse installable packages.
d. wait for update packages (why it just did an update.)
c. search for pidgin.
d. chose to install 1st package.
e. click yes I want to install
d. Click yes I know it doesn't come from Nokia
e. Click OK for the install
f. package gets installed
g. click for placement of icon in menu
h. wait for update packages.
i. search for pidgin.
j. etc etc etc etc until all 6 or 7 packages are installed.
Now from a command line apt-cache search {app name) apt-get [list of packages]
then open CP and move icon. Equally as easy on my desktop is open
Adept-Manager (kubuntu) search for app, click check boxes, OK dependencies if
any and done. In truth Adept Manager and synaptic are often easier than
command line (even though I prefer command line.)
James
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Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
On Thursday 18 October 2007 11:30:34 Marius Gedminas wrote: On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 04:48:35PM +, Steve Greenland wrote: snip My other pet peeve is that this encourages binary-only debs which you can't then fix/port to a different SDK version. I sincerely hope Maemo Extras rejects sourceless packages. Marius Gedminas Marius, I would hope that they reject binary packages period, in that like every distro I've worked with you submit a src (rpm deb tgz etc) and the distro builds from that file so that at least some assurance can be made that it's build from the correct environment. You then have 3 levels of packages. 1. Nokia produced and vetted. 2. Packages created by Authorized developers (ones know and trusted by Nokia) aka Extra's then contrib. Various users/packagers/developers not as well know can contribute src packages here for a contribs section. This last section of course, having a much lower guarantee of functional quality. James ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Steve's Ranty Review #1: N800 ogg support
On 10/18/07, Tilman Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! First of all: Thanks for your review! You wouldn't believe how few feedback you get these days: The mogg d/l counters show that quite some people try it, but we get no feedback. So you're tempted to believe everybody is happy. So thanks again! Steve Greenland schrieb: Current state of ogg support, 17-October-2007. Firstly, for some unknown reason there are *two* different ogg support packages. One, from Tuomas Kulve, I'll call 'ogg-support'. The second, by Marko Nykanen and Tilman Vogel (according to the garage page,but see below), is 'mogg'. Yes, this is unfortunate. I think mogg existed first and I was surprised about the second attempt, but on the other hand at that time none of the mogg people had an IT OS 2007 scratchbox set up, so nobody can be blamed. I (silently - my fault) had hoped somebody (maybe Tuomas Kulve) would contact us to join on mogg some day and support it on the N800. Anyway, I did some clean-up work on the gstreamer tremor plugin. Some of these changes make it work with the maemo audio player and kagu. The changes are documented and can easily be diffed between the upstream tremor plugin and the mogg version. I mentioned this to Tuomas Kulve and he offered me to join his project. I have not responded yet and the reason is that he tries to maintain the whole gstreamer-plugins-bad package. I didn't want to do this as I was just interested in the tremor codec and because the package is quite edgy, I decided to separate the tremor plugin into its own package. I am really not keen on going back to the bad package. Actually, as soon as tremor get's kind of maintained again, it should leave the bad package anyway. Plus, I don't have an N800, so, blame me, I am a bit egoistic about investing more work in this, but vice versa, I'd be happy to have N800 developers (Tuomas?) on the mogg project! Mogg is available from r.m.o extras. Yea. The packages file shows the maintainer for 'mogg' to be Jussi Kukkonen. Libraries are pulled from r.m.o when available, no obvious dupes. Ok, I'll update that soon. Jussi Kukkonen recently left the project out of time constraints. Onto the players. Built in media player: doesn't work. Mogg claims that it should (and maybe it does in the IT2006 version), but it doesn't even find the files on the card. (It does find MP3s.) Ok, I am interested in this because it works on IT OS 2006. Do you have any hints, which files might be missing/wrong? /usr/share/mime/packages/ogg-vorbis.xml should register *.ogg as audio/x-vorbis and it seems on IT OS 2006, the audio player shows all files of type audio/*. So, long story short (too late!) I'm using kagu with the mogg libraries. Yes, me too. Thanks again! This is good discussion. I hope that all the splintered ogg implementations come together. I have not gotten any of them to work satisfactorily on the built in media player and only maginally on some of the third-party players. The ogg/tremour codec should be pushed down the the infrastructure level ... it is a bit crazy to carry around multiple versions of it so that oggs can be played in different players ... especially on an embedded device. I would seem that everyone (including Nokia) is waiting for someone else to pull everything together. Maybe all implementors can get focused around the appropriate bugzilla ( https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176 ) and hash out a common gstreamer codec so that everyone can benefit from it and benefit from any future fixes. Now is the time since everything (including all the media players) will need to be rebuilt for Chinook. /Mike ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
