[Marxism] More on the vote and lack of 'mandate'.

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*FACTS: VOTE TOTALS AND VOTER TURNOUT*



*Total number of votes cast: 126,709,939 million*



Clinton:  60,555,017  -- 47.79% of votes cast



Trump:  60,088,797  -- 47.42% of votes cast



Johnson:  4,131,788  -- 3.26% of votes cast



Stein:  1,236,811  -- 0.97% of votes cast



Others: 690,526 -- 0.54% of votes cast



Parsing it;



Nearly half of eligible voters (231,556,622 people eligible vote) did not
vote in the 2016 presidential election, according to data of early turnout
rates compiled by the United States Election Project
 and crunched by Josh Nelson
. The full results may not be available
until two weeks.



The data found that of the U.S. population:



·*45.35% (or 105 million eligible voters) didn't vote *

·*26.15% of all eligible voters voted for Hillary Clinton *

·*25.95% of all eligible voters voted for Donald Trump *



It wasn't the lowest turnout in history, however. About 49 percent of
eligible voters did not participate in the 1996 election, in which
Democratic candidate Bill Clinton beat Republican candidate Bob Dole.



For the *swing states*, tallied by Jason Andrews
:

·36.5% didn't vote

·29.9% voted for Clinton

·30.9% voted for Trump

·1.9% voted Johnson





Again, the abstention vote was the largest voting bloc: 105 million
eligible voters stayed home on Election Day. Trump was elected with 25.5%
of the eligible voters.



Not only did he not win the popular vote, he garnered the votes of just
one-fourth of the eligible voters.



* * * * * * * * * *





*Obama’s Vanished Coalition (by Jack Rasmus)*



Trump’s election can be traced to the shift in key groups of voters who had
supported Obama in 2008 and who gave Obama his ‘one more chance’ to do
something in 2012, and who were deeply disappointed when he failed to do so
since 2012.  At the forefront of these groups was the white non-college
educated working class, especially those concentrated in the great lakes
industrial states in that geographic ‘arc’ from Pennsylvania to Wisconsin.
This group not only turned from Democrats but turned to Trump—as they had
in 1980 as the so-called ‘Reagan Democrats’—in response to another economic
crisis of the 1970s during which they were also abandoned by the Democratic
Party. Clinton 2016 thus lost key swing states of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin,
Ohio, Iowa, and Michigan that helped put Obama ‘over the top’ a second time
in those states.



Another important voter group that delivered for Obama in 2012 and did not
for Clinton in 2016 in similar percentages were Latinos.  They voted by a
margin of 44% for Obama 2012, but only 36% for Clinton.  Apparently, Trump
insults of Latinos were less important than Obama deportation policies in
recent years.



Women voters were supposed to vote overwhelmingly for Clinton, but white
women aged 45 and over did not.  And 75 million ‘millennials, 34 and under,
were driven away by Clinton and the Democratic Party’s treatment of the
Sanders campaign during the primaries and by offering no solution to the
hopeless scenario of insecure, low pay service jobs in exchange for record
student debt.



In short, white non-college educated workers abandoned the Democrats, while
other groups simply ‘stayed home’ and did not vote in the numbers they
previously had in 2012.



One final statistic worth considering: Over 95 percent of jobs created
during the “recovery” have gone to college-educated workers, while those
with a high school diploma or less are being left behind. A report
published by Georgetown University reveals that those with at least some
college education have captured 11.5 million of the 11.6 million jobs
created during the recovery – again, mostly jobs without benefits, unions,
job security.



* * * * * * * * * *





*ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTE*



Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. In any democracy respecting the
fundamental democratic principle of “one-person, one-vote, Clinton should
have been elected president. This was not to be.



For the second time in 16 years, a Democratic Party candidate won the
popular vote (in 2000 it was Al Gore) but lost the election.



While Trump lost the national popular vote by more than 400,000 votes
(absolute final tally is not yet in), he won the Electoral Collge by a wide
margin: 58%, or 308 delegates, for Trump vs. 42%, for 230 delegates, for
Clinton.



Why this disparity? Why this blatantly anti-democratic setup that denies
One Person, One Vote?

Re: [Marxism] Clay Claiborne on Syria and Jill Stein, responding to Louis on muftah.org

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Marx (and his US supporters in the Communist League) supported the
Republicans because they represented a *revolutionary democratic* solution
to slavery. This was in a period when Marx considered capitalism
"progressive" against the slavocracy which represented a wholly different
political economy.

It is absolutely historically GROTESQUE to compare voting for Abraham
Lincoln to Hillary Clinton. Are you stark raving mad, Thomas?

David Walters
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Re: [Marxism] Spain refuses access to Russian ships

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There is interestingly a lot more to this. The German energy 'transition'
is called *Energiewende* and was voted into being in 2010. However, the
origin of this goes back to the reign of SPD Chancellor Gerhard Schröder
and his Green Party Foreign Minister and Vice-Chancellor, Joschka Fischer.

During their office tenure, they both supported the massive new gas
pipeline expansions for Gazprom and the rival Turkish consortium running a
similar line from the Caspian. Schröder lobbied heavily for the projects
from Gazprom, and Fischer for the Turkish project. ince Germany did need to
import this gas and plans for dozens of gas turbines were being organized
(all of which were built) with an eye toward their wind and solar power
development (which was only just getting underway then). The controversy
arises is that when both Schröder and Fisher left office they immediately
went to work for the two, now competing, gas line projects. Schröder's
salary topped 200,000 Euros per year.

What was the reference to Jill Stein on the pipeline issue about?

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Re: [Marxism] Spain refuses access to Russian ships

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Andy asked/commented:

1. Tell us more about this:
" (in case you were wondering what all that revenue for the massive amount
of natural gas being sold to Germany was for)"

The significant increase in military spending (like finishing, updating and
deploying) for Soviet era navy expansion coincides with the generalized
increase in gas prices and higher oil prices when the Putin regime came to
power. The gas industry exports have increased for the last 20 years but
got a real go ahead in the early 2000s when the major pipeline upgrades
(including bypassing Ukraine) occured. There were actually two pipelines,
one through Turkey for non-Russian Caspian gas and one from the Baltic
right to Germany from mainland Russia.

Russia earns approx. $40 billion a year from gas exports alone which have
increase relative to the much larger (historically) oil exports to Europe
because of the stability of gas prices vs that of the fall in oil prices.
My comment was somewhat snarky since it and remains the bed rock to the
Germany's renewable energy project...that is the massive back up of wind
and solar for German's renewable plan. The overall increase, anyway, is
what allowed for the massive professionalization of Russia's armed forces,
financed the latest and greatest jet fighter-bombers now on display in
Syria and on the one aircraft carrier I mentioned previously.

However, Russia has spent far more rubles on infrastructure upgrades (rail,
Vladivostok commercial port facilities, now, also, an increase in the
military port in Sevastopol as well.). Even Russia's nuclear energy
expansion, proceeding with few if any hiccups, is designed to allow Russia
to sell more natural gas to Europe rather than an altruistic climate
benefit. But, indeed...Euro sales of gas (and oil) have allowed for Russia
to go gang-busters on high-tech navy ships. It is Russia, not the U.S. that
has the most advanced navy anti-ship missiles in the world. The US isn't
even close on this score.

2. Agreed, in strictly military terms this is probably no setback.
But in political terms it's still highly significant

I agree...politically it was a set back for the Russians.

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Re: [Marxism] Socialist Action on Libya and Syria -- Reply to David Walters

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Joseph, my original description of Permanent Revolution (PR) was an attempt
to defend it (though I do) rather it was to point out what it is and what
it isn't. However, you reply back to me shows that you too don't have an
understanding of PR anymore than others do who misunderstand it.

Everyone of your examples vis-a-vis National Liberation is actually a
"proof", by *negative example*, of the general correctness of PR. You wrote
that many countries have achieved "independence" people still suffer from
exploitation. PR is very explicit that the *tasks* cannot be completed if
capitalism is not overthrown. Or, it sinks back into a neo-colonial
relationship. Every Trotskyist group historically fought for "independence"
in Latin America because they understood that the formality of independence
achieved throughout the early part of the 19th Century from Portugal and
Spain (France and England as well) would not be true independence unless,
as the Cubans did, overthrow capitalism. And that is the point of PR. Every
gain you noted is not a gain unless it can be achieved in full and without
those democratic tasks being turned back. Only a socialist revolution will
insure or at least truly lay the ground work for a permanent form of
sovereignty otherwise *impossible* to achieve under Imperialism. That is PR
and it's been proven in everyone of the examples you cited.

But it's not a perfect theory. It's a guide. Obviously countries can in
fact achieve formal independence in the age of Imperialism. The dislocation
of the very influential Indian Trotskyist organization after WWII is an
example of this. Again, "they didn't get it". They believed that the
*granting* of independence by the British was an impossibility "because of
Permanent Revolution". Certain forms of land reform (codified in the 1918
Mexican Constitution for example) can be achieved. The granting of peasants
the land in S. Korea and Taiwan by buying off the landlord class is an
example of this 'exception'.

But if one is going to discuss PR, we have to agree on what it is, not
project one' own ideological prejudices onto interpreting it.

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Re: [Marxism] Socialist Action on Libya and Syria

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Andy is correct at least with regards to permanent revolution. The
characterization by Green of Permanent Revolution is like a middle-school
text book definition.

The *program* of Permanent Revolution to the degree as it's advocated and
not just, as many Trotskyists project, simply an analytical took to
prognosticate the course of a future revolution, is closer to Andy's
interpretation. All these revolutions *start as democratic ones* (struggles
for actual democracy against dictatorship, land reform, national
liberation,etc). All Permanent Revolution says/advocates/predicts is that
in order to actually *achieve* those democratic *tasks* it will take the
complete overthrow of he existing capitalist regime and the installation by
the working class of Workers Government. That's it. There are none, ZERO,
preconditions about who or whom to support in achieving this except that to
go "all the way", again to achieve the reason people were rebelling in the
first place, means to break with the capitalists *politically* who may be
part of the initial phases of the revolution and keep the working class
independent. But that latter point is on us, not the masses themselves.

Problems of Permanent Revolution: it was poorly written. It was overly
prognostic in it's structure (not unlike Lenin's writings as well in some
cases). It has zero to really say about *how* to conduct a struggle for
national liberation other than emphasis on the building the Communist
Party. There is not enough or very little about the national liberation
stage of the revolution and the tactics and strategy to be used in leading
such a fight. And Trotsky did talk about 'stages'. Trotsky rejected,
however, the *mechanical application of stages* implied in Lenin's writings
(such as in Two Tactics for Social Democracy) but rather emphasized there
is no "iron wall between stages" and one 'stage' dynamically flows into the
other as dictated by the course of the revolution. It takes a revolutionary
party that understands this dynamic to insure the completion of the
democratic revolution by way of a working class victory.

Also not talked about is the issue of Imperialist intervention because it
assumes that all such struggles are anti-Imperialist and the lines are
clearly drawn which, of course, is not always the case.

David Walters
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[Marxism] On Fukushima contamination of Pacific Ocean waters

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"R" asked about more recent reports on ocean contamination from Fukushima.
Most of the listed reports he listed on his post (by way of Louis P.) came
from the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute (WHOI) collected data (if you
read a 'news article' on something, try following the links back to the
original report to get a summery AND conclusion from the study's authors!).
The WHOI has more recent reports if only people would get off of Google and
do some more serious research. "R" was kvetching that he could only find
reports from 2012. Reports are issued almost in a kind of live-streaming so
they is not hard to find. The other project is the "Integrated Fukushima
Ocean Radionuclide Monitoring (InFORM)" which includes, oddly, the very
anti-nuclear "David Suzuki Foundation" and other NGOs (
https://fukushimainform.ca/our-ngo-partners/ ).

First, on radiation, turn your browsers to the WHOI's rather excellent and
interactive graphic on radiation (does, responses, sources, etc). It is a
very good pedagogical presentation on how and how much radiation is bad for
you. It is here: http://www.whoi.edu/oceanus/feature/heath-risks

Now, the InFORM group is based in the Pacific Northwest, basically Puget
Sound and Vancouver, BC institutions. Dr. Jay Cullen, who was recently
threatened with death by a deranged anti-nuclear activist ... who is in
jail, it seems ... for supposedly being "pro-nuclear" --he's not-- he leans
toward renewables personally, because of posts like this:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/08/11/1559237/-No-Detectable-Fukushima-Contamination-in-Alaskan-Fish-in-Early-2016

Anyway, Cullen is a lead researcher of Oceanography and Marine Chemistry at
the University of Victoria, BC Vancouver and participates in this Forum.
The reason for this west coast focus is that the BC area is sort of the
first place any effluent from Fukushima shows up.

In August he published on the liberal democratic party blog, the DailyKos
the following:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/08/12/1559506/-Citizen-Science-Update-August-2016-More-Than-250-Coastal-Seawater-Samples-For-Fukushima-Monitoring
it is very short.

This is a very basic summation of the increase in radionuclides of Cs-137,
the focus of the links "R" provided. While the Cs-137 has reached the West
Coast of N. America, it at levels that are barely detectable. One of the
reasons is the huge amount of dilution.

David Walters
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Re: [Marxism] Past Issues of Monthly Review Free in Flagstaff Arizona

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Thank you Ralph, we'll have to discuss it. Please write me off list.

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[Marxism] Fwd: Why Assad's Army Has Not Defected | The National Interest

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Interesting. I never knew the *National Interest *was a neo-con journal.
The reason, is that I never really cared to look beyond the specific issue
that the NI excels in: the debates and discussions around military
technology as used by the U.S. and and how it stacks up against other
countries latest developments in human destruction. NI reflects the ruling
class debates over military expenditures, weapons systems and deployment.
NI plays the same role with regards to these issues as* Foreign Affairs *does
in reflecting a wing of ruling class' foreign policy initiatives and
proposals (and is still very useful in this role).

I haven't read the article that Louis posted but you can be sure the ideas
that flow from it due represent (or at least are read!) by various
important policy wonks in the government (and despite it's neo-Con
heritage, read by the same types in both parties).

David
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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Hmmm...well...in many ways, Clay is restrained in his lesser-evilism.
Compared to some the crap that was thrown at Sander's during the primary
with typical "you have the privilege of voting for Sanders, I don't" sort
of pure unadulterated BS...Clay is lightweight here.

Also, I just learned Lenin was a neo-liberal economist! Wait...how did
Lenin sneak into the discussion. Deport his ass right now.

I gather this was around the open borders issue that also sort of shuck in
here. We don't have open borders and no candidate that I know of is
advocating it so why is it part of the discussion (no major party is, lot's
of socialist candidates do, however, I assume: PSL, SA, WWP etc).

Whatever...the always desperate ploy of
guilt-by-associating-one's-position-with-the-far-right is at play here.
That is a polemical tool I know so well. Reactionaries mix and match
positions depending on the circumstances. Of course neo-liberals generally
are for open borders (see the EU)...sometimes...and far-right reactionaries
(Le Pen, Trump...and Clinton) are for closing them.

20 years ago I was against NAFTA. Others on the left accused those on the
left who opposed NAFTA of "protectionism". They either refused to take a
position on NAFTA or ignored it. The more desperate argued for a "social
NAFTA" (see "Social Europe" the bankrupt Euro-left supports). Back then the
Mexican left and union movement was also opposed to NAFTA and it took
Zapitista rebellion...their single issue being opposition to the
implementation of NAFTA...to knock the US left upside the head about NAFTA
being THE tool of neoliberalism...that is privatization and austerity, not
to mention loss of sovereignty for Mexico.

But be careful... if you oppose NAFTA today it means...you are in the camp
of Trump...? Or Sanders? Or the Green Party? This is the problem with
defining your *position* based solely what the position of is of the *far
right* or by your political opponents. Fuck that shit! Take positions as it
relates *best* to defending our class against the real enemy...which the
ruling class and their toadies in the Democratic and Republican parties.

Clay complains against the "white nationalism" of the Trump camp. Lets
examine this. The main 'nationalist' position Trump takes is on
immigration. It dovetails with the Tea-Party wing (though of course his
economic policies...being 'nationalist'...are at odds with the Tea Party
historically) and with whose members overlap quite a bit with Trump's
positions. But beyond that...there is virtually no difference between Trump
*and his supporters* and that of the "traditional" Tea Party groupings.
Ergo...though I can't prove this I believe Clay's position would be exactly
the same if it was Cruz as the GOP nominee (a person who scares me a
helluva lot MORE than Trump does at every political level).

Trump getting elected would not mean, despite Clay's protestations to the
contrary "White Nationalism" in the White House. Certainly not via Trump
himself. But if you look at who were the staff members and advisors for
Ronald Reagan, these "alt-rightists" are in fact lightweight compared to
Reagan's advisors (Reagan was on the far-left of his advisory staff, just
so ha' know). Trumps overall positions don't vary that much with Clinton's.
Assuming we even really know his positions. With the exception of the
rhetorical talk about deporting 11 million undocumented workers and their
families...there isn't that much difference for people of color than we are
seeing from...Barrack "Depor 'em" Obama and Clinton. He can increase
funding to a 'special deportation brigade' or whatever he's advocating this
afternoon, but only by getting support in Congress. Secondly, besides a
huge number of unconstitutional Executive Orders there isn't much Trump can
do. Take NAFTA, which he says he opposes. Too late, it was ratified by the
Senate and can only be ratified by it. Trumps positions, to the degree they
are at odds with the GOP, means to get any of them implemented, he needs
support, which he has very little of. I suspect the Wall would get funded
after much rankling.

This whole debate, quite honestly, is the old Mussolini vs Hitler debate.
As it's gotten to this level, I see the differences between Trump (and what
he acutally do) and Clinton (and what she has actually done) a difference
without much of a distinction. In fact I would go so far and say that the
only thing stopping Trumpism is not Clinton but how we organize people
independent of these two. Because if we don't, it won't matter who is
POTUS.

David Walters
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Why the State Matters | Jacobin

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I agree with Andy, it's an interesting article and well worth reading. What
Parenti does, and without using the term, is laying out a survey of
*Bonapartist* political-economy over the last 250 years.

However, what I find very valuable here is the understanding of the role of
the State as a *prerequisite* for development as capitalism transformed
into Imperialism. This article as a survey of industrial development under
the many areas of the globe that have gone through this process is a direct
affront to...the Libertarian's who believe that only unbridled, unregulated
and form where the state buts out of development can work. The a-historical
nature of the Libertarian economic program is slammed and destroyed by this
article. Libertarianiam is exposed as a fantasy, at least historically, by
the thesis Parenti develops here.

While Parenti avoids the need for workers revolution and maybe in
contradiction to what Andy's implies, the 'solutions' part of his article
has a kind of "transitional" program of immediate demands, or perspectives,
that flow from the arguments in the article. That is, "mitigating fossil
fuel use" he suggests wisely, means using the power of the State, even
under capitalism, to enforce other forms of energy. He notes "We need
movements that, at least for now, seek to use state power to force capital
into new patterns of investment and technological development." I'm for
that in some ways. It makes political sense for a movement concerned about
climate change, to push for this even if it's book ended by capitalist
political economy. He does, perhaps, give to much legitimacy to the concept
of the State's "autonomy" and doesn't realize the contradictions between
what was in the ruling class' long term interests during the periods in
countries he describes and today's speculative based Imperialist political
economy. Because of this he doesn't go the necessary step further to
suggest that implementing such a radical plan, Imperialism will simply
remove that 'autonomy' the State has to insure it's present domination over
nature for purposes of short term profit.

Still, his description of how development occurred is very valuable.

David Walters
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Re: [Marxism] SOIL ALLIANCE resource hub

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Hans asks a good question, though he's unfair to Dave Riley and myself
because at no point did either Dave or say or argue that this is the end
all and be all of climate change. I posted a single link to a video that
shows a healthier way (for the soil and, consequently, for the planet) to
farm. Thats' it. It wasn't the worlds answer to climate change but only one
facet of it. And yes, if all cattle raising the world was done this way,
it's a net gain, that is, lower, not higher methane and, CO2 emissions.
And, people can still have a hamburger or steak. I call that a 'win-win'.

Hans in a previous response argues that the carbon is still put into the
environment. I argue "yes, but it's returned". Thus cattle raising this way
is what is called carbon-neutral. In fact if you read the Aussie Socialist
Alternative link Dave provided on agriculture (and I don't agree with
some/much of it) you'll see it's a serious proposal to reorganize
agricultural away from large commercialization. That's a good thing, not a
bad thing, Hans. Is it enough? No, no one thing is enough. But it's also
*rational*. It doesn't require universal buy in from everyone. Like meat
eaters (most of humanity)...it doesn't require us to become vegans (thank
the gods!). It allows for a phased change in agriculture that is both
useful, environmentally friendly and sane. It also doesn't argue that "we
use too much", the ultra position of the Western green movement. It points
to a lower carbon steady state economy. It doesn't' do another thing like
the angry gnat buzzing around our ears but is impossible to catch: it
doesn't require lowering the planet's population either. And that's just
the SA ag program!

Where I likely departs from Hans and Dave Riley is over energy, since I
also note that solar/wind crazed Germany has not replaced a single coal
plant with either wind or solar but instead built up coal and, to
substitute for some nuclear (which is low carbon) they've built scads of
natural gas plants all throughout Germany. From an emissions POV, Germany
(and Denmark) are utter failures. Without a serious paradigm shift to
nuclear, zero of Han's wishes will ever come to pass, despite all the "100%
fossil/nuclear free" papers written...the proof is that not a single thing
has changed.

Hans points out that while we get better at point specific carbon emissions
(better gas mileage cars, lower CO2 output from air transport) the overall
rate goes up as more people employ these methods of transportation. I
agree, this is a problem. Gee, Hans, what do you suggest we do? I'm for
actual solutions, such as sythetic fuels made from atmospheric CO2 like DME
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Re: [Marxism] SOIL ALLIANCE resource hub

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Hans asks a good question, though he's unfair to Dave Riley and myself
because at no point did either Dave or say or argue that this is the end
all and be all of climate change. I posted a single link to a video that
shows a healthier way (for the soil and, consequently, for the planet) to
farm. Thats' it. It wasn't the worlds answer to climate change but only one
facet of it. And yes, if all cattle raising the world was done this way,
it's a net gain, that is, lower, not higher methane and, CO2 emissions.
And, people can still have a hamburger or steak. I call that a 'win-win'.

Hans in a previous response argues that the carbon is still put into the
environment. I argue "yes, but it's returned". Thus cattle raising this way
is what is called carbon-neutral. In fact if you read the Aussie Socialist
Alternative link Dave provided on agriculture (and I don't agree with
some/much of it) you'll see it's a serious proposal to reorganize
agricultural away from large commercialization. That's a good thing, not a
bad thing, Hans. Is it enough? No, no one thing is enough. But it's also
*rational*. It doesn't require universal buy in from everyone. Like meat
eaters (most of humanity)...it doesn't require us to become vegans (thank
the gods!). It allows for a phased change in agriculture that is both
useful, environmentally friendly and sane. It also doesn't argue that "we
use too much", the ultra position of the Western green movement. It points
to a lower carbon steady state economy. It doesn't' do another thing like
the angry gnat buzzing around our ears but is impossible to catch: it
doesn't require lowering the planet's population either. And that's just
the SA ag program!

Where I likely departs from Hans and Dave Riley is over energy, since I
also note that solar/wind crazed Germany has not replaced a single coal
plant with either wind or solar but instead built up coal and, to
substitute for some nuclear (which is low carbon) they've built scads of
natural gas plants all throughout Germany. From an emissions POV, Germany
(and Denmark) are utter failures. Without a serious paradigm shift to
nuclear, zero of Han's wishes will ever come to pass, despite all the "100%
fossil/nuclear free" papers written...the proof is that not a single thing
has changed.

Hans points out that while we get better at point specific carbon emissions
(better gas mileage cars, lower CO2 output from air transport) the overall
rate goes up as more people employ these methods of transportation. I
agree, this is a problem. Gee, Hans, what do you suggest we do? I'm for
actual solutions, such as synthetic fuels made from atmospheric CO2 like
DME or Dimethyl Ether (http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/emerging_dme.html)
or ammonia or H2 and more importantly, electricity powered not by gas and
coal generated electricity but carbon free nuclear energy (France, not
Germany). We do have to get serious, but banning automobiles is not going
to work. It can't work, actually. Societies as a whole are not going to use
less, they are going to use more. At least most societies are. Even if
population were to drop at the rate it's increasing now, we will need a lot
more energy to produce low GHG emissions from the commodities we use today.
The left has to start understanding that or their "ecosocialism" will end
up being a sad joke and take us not to a new dawn for humanity but a sunset
followed by night time of poverty, war and scarcity.

David
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Re: [Marxism] SOIL ALLIANCE resource hub

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Thank you Dave for proving links to the Socialist Alliance's ag policy...I
remember working with two of your farmer comrades on this, a bit, in
discussions before the program was fully developed. I think it's an
advantage that the SA there has some farm people in it to elaborate on the
technical details of the program. I believe it's the only socialist group
in the developed worlds with a serious...or any...agricultural policy. I
don't agree with it all and I think generally, the *reasons* for many to
support organic farming is bogus. But here it focuses on carbon
sequestration and ending soil degradation which makes all the sense in the
world. Cereal grain production however is something that is simply done
more productively in large commercial farming methods. But that's another
debate (not to mention the sort of hyper-opposition to GMOs instead of a
more measured parsing of the issues surrounding them. I agree with some of
the *intent* of the anti-GMO statement in the program).

Hans' position, is the opposite of mine. I don't agree we even need a
'leaner' set of eating habits. How would you implement this short of a
Pol-Pot rationing of food? Han's positions require this sort of catholic
universalism not ready to come by. In every society that increases it's
standard of living, animal protein goes up. Han's is part of the
"de-development" wing of the environmental movement that I think all
Marxists should reject. He writes:

"If we are talking of leaner lifestyles, different use-values must be
treated differently." then... "We want to restrict those things which we
can do without without living a too impoverished life, and which allow us
to reduce our footprint a lot. Meat consumption and air travel are rightly
in the cross hairs as the main things which we must learn to use only
sparingly."

So...well no...I'm not talking about that all and none of us should. What
we are talking about is *wiser* use of all resources. I'm not sure anyone
or any institution can decide what is "too impoverished life" is. I'm for
*abundance*, as Marx was, and we need to figure out how to get that or we
except the "nobility of the poor".  We need a lot more of everything to
bring the worlds impoverished up to at least a decent (by *their* standard)
of living. This means more energy, which solar and wind won't do for us. We
need to increase the productivity of land without poisoning it forever.
This means a balanced approach to both the use of chemical fertilizers with
organic farming methods and the sound (and sane non-capitalist) use of
GMOs. But I can tell you now: anything that stymies the worlds desire to
increase their standard of living, especially in impoverished developing
countries will not find a hearing whatsoever and will be opposed. Anything
that prevents the neo-colonial world will be smashed politically. Asking
people not eat what they want is going to be laughed out of the room.

David Walters
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Re: [Marxism] SOIL ALLIANCE resource hub

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Dave Riley brings common sense to this meaty discussion.

I urge list readers to view this video titled "Carbon Cowboys"

https://vimeo.com/80518559

It shows why cattle ranching in small packed herds rotating around a hugely
built up number prairie grasses actually creates a situation that allows
for a net consumption of methane into the soil vs bovine methane out put.
It shows truly the only way the soil can be conserved and made healthy
again (which, folks, REQUIRES cow herds to return to the land and thus our
necessary consumption of them
). Absolutely fascinating and well produced show. Made me rethink my
anti-cattle perspectives.

David Walters
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Re: [Marxism] Smear campaign against Jill Stein by Democratic Party hack

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Louis does a poor job here of defending Stein. The issue was never really
about being anti-vaccinations, it was about her pandering to those who do.
Here as my initial response:

"Louis, she perhaps does believe what she says but she is clearly
*catering* to anti-vaxxers. This is the point of most of the blogs and
essays written about her position. The fact that she even brings up in the
paragraph you quoted her from is designed to placate the anti-vaxx
activists endemic in the Green Party today. Arel is essentially correct:
Stein is pandering here and it’s obvious and *beneath* her as a MD. The
bringing up of thimerosal is a case in point, which is no longer used, and
with it’s *removal* there has been zero effect on fetal brain development
for the better. In other words, it was a scare story from the get go.
Thimerosal is methylmercury NOT the kind of mercury we see coming out of
coal plant effluent or used in instruments which called ethylmercury. It is
good to question, but one has to look at the conclusions science has
delivered.

On her comment that is extracted about trusting the regulatory boards…and
directly associating it with the issue of vaccines is totally disingenuous
on her part: she fails to point out that it appears beyond a shadow of a
doubt that these same regulatory boards with regards to vaccines were 100%
correct and the doubters were 100% incorrect. And she knows this so why
does she bring it up? It’s called pandering to the anti-science wackos in
her milieu."

[Even the mercury charge was proven false...thimerosal was never proven
un-healthy was removed as a vaccination preservatvie *soley* due to public
(meaning, "no data") pressure groups.

By not coming full force in supporting, *specifically* the MMR vaccine,
which has been proven 100% safe she only reinforces the anti-vaxxers
criminal campaign again vaccinations. This is seen throughout the
discussion of 80 or so comments by defenders of the anti-vaxx campaign that
have infected Louis's essay...in support of Louis' defense of Stein.

She panders to the anti-wifi lunactic fringe of the Green Party as well. I
would, in fact, urge everyone to look at those links provided by the
initial post here on her. I have zero doubt this is for the benefit of
Clinton. But it is Stein who handed this issue to the Clinton supporters on
a silver platter.

I would argue that this by itself is not most relevant aspect of the Stein
campaign. I'd say it is a problem, however.

David Walters
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[Marxism] (no subject)

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Lou wrote:
"Interesting to see that Gloria is the campaign chair. I heard her speak at
the conference in Chicago on building an independent party of the left that
never went anywhere after the Sanders campaign kicked off. She is ex-ISO
and really quite astute."

Actually she is ex-Socialist Alternative. She was in it when SAlt was very
active in the now defunct Labor Party leaving SAlt shortly after that in
the early 2000s, I think. She's been with the GP ever since and was a
candidate for them a few times.

David
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[Marxism] Another excellent Jacobin article: Teamsters and Cops by Bryan Palmer

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Minneapolis teamsters in 1934 knew something we should remember — police
enforce the ruling class’s unjust order.Full:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/07/police-brutality-philando-castile-unions-teamsters-labor/
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: 3 Articles in Black Agenda Report on "Good News of Brexit"

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Louis wrote:

"This is the hoary argument from people like Paul Craig Roberts et al. It
was also common in the American left

"For them, open borders is a capitalist plot. This is not Lenin's view, nor
should it be ours. Workers have a right to travel to countries in search of
a job. Closed borders is a tool backed by nationalists. Period.

"And most importantly, given the genocidal-like slaughter of Syrians, the
end of the EU would make it that much more difficult to get political
asylum. "

Yes, though I haven't seen this on the socialist left, no doubt it floats
around the Robert's-like left one reads on blogs. However, what she wrote,
is accurate. The struggle for open borders, an internationalist position,
was not arrived at by the social struggles in Europe, but pushed by some
sectors of capital. Not unlike the 'moderate' wing of the GOP in the US
which effectively has a 'loose' border view precisely to keep a downward
pressure on wages in some sectors of the economy. And let us not
forget...the closing of the borders to SYRIAN refugees was worked out as a
deal between the reactionary EU and the equally reactionary Turkish
government.

What I like about the articles from BAR is that they do put the onus where
it belongs, and that is what the EU actually is and why it's reactionary.

Clearly, at any rate, the working class of Britain has it's work cut out
for itself, not just in the Labour movement itself, but in the broader
working class. Their struggle will no longer, at least at some point, be
book-ended by the EU. They will have to rely on their own class

David Walters
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: 3 Articles in Black Agenda Report on "Good News of Brexit"

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Louis wrote: " This of course relates to my blog post about Chandan and
Tharrapal. This Brexit stuff is opening up fissures everywhere in the
Baathist camp."

True...but who really cares? The point of the articles from Black Agenda
Reports is that it helps remove the issue from the media created
'xenophobia' emphasis and puts it where it belong, on Imperialism. As M.
Kimberley notes her essay: ""Every instance of hate speech and hate crime
is now blamed on the Brexit vote, as if there was an absence of racism and
intolerance before."
---Exactly!
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[Marxism] The NYC labor movement in 1863

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Louis, I was part of that large fraction at the Navy Yard. I think we had
about 17 members at its height and had many adventures, from 15 of us being
fired because the US Navy objected to our presence there (even set up a
machine gun on the entry way to ship to "protect" it) to totally abstaining
from our early winter strike. We recruited navy sailors into the YSA and
generally acted, as workers there told me after I quit, as very nice and
smart Jehovah's Witnesses. Workers politeness was take as a sign of being a
potential contact. A huh...

It was never a question of workers moving as in the example during the
Civil War (the Navy Yard predates the Revolution, and it was where they
built the first iron clad ship, the Monitor) but rather just living *as*
working going through the experience, sinking roots, and above all else,
earning respect. None of these three things we did and that is why the SWP
did so poorly. It was based on this bad experience there that I quit the
SWP.

David
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[Marxism] Fwd: A Note from Mike Davis about the Second Amendment - Los Angeles Review of Books

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he had me until the last sentence...as if Jefferson's 'dream' was really a
serious proposal for his slave holding America. What nonsense. And what is
this shit about "Natural Law" WTF is that supposed to mean?

David Walters
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Re: [Marxism] The "limits" of animal intelligence

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 Dennis Brasky wrote:

> I take it that you are a scientist or anthropologist.
>

No, I'm not a doctor either but I know to go to one when needed.

These kind of articles play on another almost unique human quality: empathy
for others not our own species. The idea of these kinds of articles is make
animals appear as human like as possible and to treat them like 'people'. I
think they are generally devoid of any serious understanding of animals and
animal-human relationships.

DW
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Re: [Marxism] The "limits" of animal intelligence

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I think this is crap methodology here expressed not by a scientist or
anthropologist but by someone who projects their own anthropomorphic
projections into the discussion. The setting up of straw-man arguments and
then knocking them down is pretty common in this sort of setting: "people
didn't believe animans had intelligence...". Wow...really? Name one person.

The last haiku like nonsense he uses "...The credo of experimental science
remains that an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If we fail
to find a capacity in a given species, our first thought ought to be 'Did
we overlook something?' And the second should be 'Did our test fit the
species?..." --> Believe in god much?

These sort of "popular science" (read: no scientific method whatsoever) is
common among animal rights activists who wish to pass laws elevating
animals to the level of human beings and outlaw the eating of animal
proteins based on nothing more than "Animals are people too". Which,
fortunately, is not likely to happen.

David W.
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: What Went Wrong? The Nicaraguan Revolution | Brill

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Louis wrote:

"I have a big problem with this. The issues being addressed in HM books are
of interest to a global audience. For many people, the cost of a Haymarket
paperback is about as prohibitive as a Brill hardcover especially if you
are living outside of the USA. I got a feel for that sending the book on
Syria to people in Europe. Speaking of that book, Ukant sold it for cost
($15) just like all the other books they publish. Is that the case with
Haymarket? I doubt it."

"This may sound radical but I feel that Marxist books should be published
on the Internet. That addresses the cost question as well as distribution.
Of course, many Marxists feel that they should be paid if they spend a year
working on a book but to tell you the truth they can make more money
working for McDonalds than what they'll get from Verso."

I feel the same, actually, Louis. But this is a different subject. In some
cases it's impossible for a mass quality paperback company (Pathfinder,
Haymarket, on the left, tons others in the commercial arena). I'm saying,
or asking: is there another way. Many Marxists publishing books are doing
so because of a one-off need to "get published" for their own academic
career. In a way, I agree with this. Or, no other company BUT Brill will
publish their monographs. The real question, not asked by your or Scott's
interesting essay is "why quality paper backs"? Quality paperbacks and a
notch or two up from the old "pocket book" editions that many of our
parents used to read for their romance novels, mysteries, etc. They are
still widely published today and much of my favorite genre of literature,
science-fiction, is still published in this manner.

I remember back in the early 70s when Pathfinder explained that were making
a serious attempt to break into this "quality paperback" arena. It's the
form most books sold in university bookstores sell their softcover books.
Glossy softcover, bleached white paper, usually slightly thicker and
sturdier than pocket books, which were only a notch or two above newsprint.

But...back in the day...Pioneer Publishers and International Publishers
published books in pocket book form: cheaper paper, cardstock covers,
etc...and books and pamphlets could be sold quite cheaply because of it. I
think it would be great if Haymarket were to release a "line" of these
kinds of books. I just don't see massive tomes like John Riddell's latest
works on the Comintern every coming out cheaper, at least not in book form,
than they are now or in any version that is of less quality than Haymarket
has published them in.

I suspect this is what Louis is griping about even with Haymarket, where he
states, factually, that even Haymarket's prices are out of reach for people
in developing countries or those in the West who can't put out $25 or $30
for a book.

I had, years ago talked to Daniel Gaido about this. Daniel is an Argentine
Trotskyist who published his "Witnesses to Permanent Revolution: The
Documentary Record" (along with Richard B Day) with Brill. Daniel, along
with being a scholar, is also a volunteer on the Marxists Internet Archive
which is how I "met" and got to know him. I asked him "Daniel! WTF?!?
$138". Now, this is from memory, but I remember him saying "it was
either Brill or no one would publish it". About 18 months later, Haymarket
published it for $38 or so...which I understand allowed for a few bucks
over the actual cost of the printing.

So...what is it that allows Haymarket to publish material like this? The
reason is very simple: Haymarket doesn't do the typesetting (or formatting
since everything is published today off of PDFs). It's already done by
Brill! Brill assembles and *edits* the works and puts them into PDF format.
All Haymarket has to do is run them to the printer and design and print
their own covers and QED. But it still costs. I don't know what or if
Haymarket pays Brill. Be interesting to find out.

I think Louis does have a point about the prices even Haymarket charges. We
all rely on Haymarket. In fact, if it wasn't for them, about any
theoretical and historical discussions on this list would be a lot
more...anemic. Haymarket publishes other books...like the Chomsky, Klein
and books that are not "socialist" to make money, which goes to subsidize,
actually, their HM series. But the differences between $15 and $25 is not
that different to make a *quantitative* difference in how many books are
being sold that are wanted outside the U.S. At least I don't think so. In
the last 2 years, postage rates into and out of the U.S. have gone up close
to 400%. I used to send a hard drive of the MIA (one our fundraising
things) to some 

Re: [Marxism] Fwd: What Went Wrong? The Nicaraguan Revolution | Brill

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Well...my understanding is that Brill's target audience are institutions
and not individuals. I have zero problem waiting a year for a book to be
published as was noted, by Haymarket Books. So what? In fact, Haymarket
does publish *all* Brill's works, or has the right to do so, if it's from
the HM series.

Brill also doesn't have a page/word limit unlike almost all other
publishers, leftwing or not. I think "what' went wrong" is that people want
books "right now" and can't seem wait for the cheaper versions with more
human prices once they see Brill publishing it. We are not talking about
the price of bread or subway fare, here. If the HM series didn't exist as
it is, likely a lot fewer of the HM series books would ever seen ink on
paper.  So...I simply don't gave a crap about what Brill charges, I care
about accessibility via Haymarket.


David Walters
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Re: [Marxism] "Not anti-zionist" Palestine solidarity,

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Just a few comments on this. I was not arguing having an anti-Zionist
position was "good" or "bad" with regards to solidarity with Palestinians.
Many, perhaps most of the U.S. based university BDS campaigns grew or were
initiated because of the Israeli assault on Gaza. And that is fine. I was
merely trying to point out that, in fact, one doesn't have to BE an
anti-Zionist to express solidarity with Palestinians and that in fact
many/most/some of the BDS groups specifically are not organized along an
anti-Zionist program.

In Europe, in France and Spain, BDS has in fact, or has in the past, been
very much a *political* program in support of the demands of the PA and
very narrow in regards to what those demands are. And it never presented
itself as "anti-Zionist". Support for the whole of the BDS program was a
criteria for this though I'm not sure it is today.] BDS is how the majority
of actions and support for Palestinians is expressed and is, in fact, the
broadest framework for discussing all aspects or the Palestinian question,
including anti-Zionism. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.

As to what "anti-Zionism" is, it means opposing the idea of a Jewish
homeland in Palestine. Effectively calling for the dismantlement of the
Zionist state. Anything short of this cannot actually be called
anti-Zionist. Positions that are opposed at any given time to the Israeli
government as just that: opposition to this or that policy and has little
to do with being anti-Zionist. There are Zionists that support BDS for
moral or liberal reasons. Not many but they exist.


On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Andrew Pollack <acpolla...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You're probably right about the endorsers, I admit to not knowing for most
> of the list which front is part of which faction. However it's worth
> revisiting Omar Barghouti's articles and speeches; my recollection is that
> he's to the left of the PA.
> In any case here's a group which is working from a clearly independent
> perspective:
> http://grassrootsalquds.net/
>
> On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 10:48 AM, DW <dwalters...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you go to the BDS page here:
>> https://bdsmovement.net/call   (this is the official BDS campaign page
>> internationally) you will see the 2005 call and those that authored/signed
>> it. The majority or near majority of the groups, including the unions and
>> professional associations, are close to the PA/Fatah. These groups all have
>> varying sets of politics and positions and like all Palestinians, would
>> love to see a unified and democratic Palestine in the pre-48 borders (this
>> is an assumption on my part) but politically every group there, part of
>> "Palestine's *civil society*" to use their term, has accommodated itself to
>> the PA. It is, basically, what the PA rests on politically and
>> organizationally beyond Fatah. I haven't look at *each* group, but if one
>> is for a two-state solution, then one can't really be described as
>> "anti-Zionist", not if one is willing to allow a Zionist entity to continue
>> to control the pre-1967 borders, IMO.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Andrew Pollack <acpolla...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What's your evidence Dave for BDS initiators being close to the PA? My
>>> impression is the exact opposite.
>>> And those same people have more and more in recent years focused on the
>>> Right of Return, and are comfortable explaining in public the challenge
>>> that represents to a Zionist state.
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 10:27 AM, DW via Marxism <
>>> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>>   POSTING RULES & NOTES  
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [I wrote this late last night and didn't see the rest of this...thread
>>>> until now so I'm posting this anyway--DW]
>>>>
>>>> In fact there is a lot of Palestinian solidarity that is not
>>>> anti-Zionist.
>>>> Most BDS c

Re: [Marxism] Push Bernie to run as a Green!

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Ugh! What would be the point?? Their current choice, Jill Stein, is far to
the left of Sanders on almost every issue. Just so Sander's could get more
votes than she would? Is that the point of running a Presidential campaign?
Yuck.
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[Marxism] About Alison Weir & the "Pro-Palestine" right (& far right)

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Thanks to Jeff for doing the research on this. I think Weir is not
*personally* "right-wing" but more a classic liberal and "progressive" who
can't stand what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. But her own
organization and who she 'unites with' is clearly, as Jeff shows, quite
right wing. She's perceived as leftist because she is also sponsored by a
variety of ostensibly leftist lead Palestinian solidarity groups. And in
fact, I think she approaches them quite honestly and forthright as they do
her. But in truth she is part of a right-wing anti-Semtic milieu that is
undeniable as well. I would say and perhaps it appears odd to some, that
most of her interactions with Jewish-Americans are in fact via the
Palestinian Solidarity/BDS movements.

In more important vein, I find it odd that some in the BDS movement oppose
raising the issue of Israel's so-called "Right to exist". What nonsense is
this? I understand the impetus of the recent BDS movement stems from
Israel's murderous assault on Gaze and isn't around the issue of Zionism
specifically, but take a political stand against an anti-Zionist position
is simply whacked out IMHO.

David
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Re: [Marxism] Nada Elia: Time to Stop Celebrating Jewish Dissent in Palestine Solidarity Mvmt

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This discussion is a mine field. I'm only going to comment on the original
post and not the cross discussion/flame war that appears to be brewing. I
will make a short comment on Allison Weir.

I'm not sure what Nada Elia complaining about. Quite honestly she put a lot
of good brain power into this essay and proposes absolutely zip with
regards to addressing "Jewish privilege". Nothing. And, she's wrong, at
least as far as I can interpret it. She praises anti-Zionist Jews for
their solidarity and then condemn's them for doing it. She's all over the
map on this and leaves me totally bewildered as to what she is afraid of.

I find it odd her comments as she's lived in the US (though clearly
ensconced in the Academy) and should know that with 5 1/2 million
Jewish-Americans the politics surrounding Israel, Zionism and the
Palestinians is more or less a regular discussion piece around the dinner
table when issues of their own ethnic background arise. How can it be any
different? How is this a from a "Jewish privileged" POV?? We have been
*pounded* into viewing the Holocaust and Israel as interlinked. We were
dragged to "Israel Day Parades" and "Free Soviet Jews" marches in NYC by the*
hundreds of thousands*!

Elia writes:

"Jewish voices are welcome, of course, in the global denunciation of Zionism
as a racist ideology. Identifying oneself as Jewish when one speaks out
against Israel’s policies also helps dismantle the accusation that seeking
justice for Palestinians is anti-Semitic. Yet there is an inevitable risk
associated with the ongoing privileging of Jewish voices denouncing Israel.
This is because by privileging their voices, we are implicitly accepting
the Zionist narrative of Israel representing all Jews, with very few
exceptions. It is these “exceptions,” then, that Palestinian rights
activists place on a pedestal."

Whaa? So she's denouncing Palestinians and other solidarity
activists who "place on a pedestal" Jewish-Americans who denounce Israel.
Again, WTF?? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. WTF is she asking for
and who, who pray tell is she appealing to? If you want Jewish-Americans or
Palestinians to point to these Jewish-Americans as proving Israel
specifically and Zionism more generally then don't condemn people who are
pointing this out!!! This "privilege checking" here is utter
crap...especially in the utter almost metaphysical way she is trying to
prove her point.

The other point, not brought out by her, is that it's not about "Jews" but
"Jewish-Americans". Jewish-Americas are, *exactly* like Italian-Americans,
Greek-Americans, etc a hyphenated white American sub-ethnic group. The
operative term being white and *American* (By which I mean citizens of the
US). The 'group' as amorphous and heterogeneous as it is, has it's own
dynamics that are an ongoing discussion about it's relationship to Israel.
Given the huge political influence of groups of Jewish-Americans in US
politics, it's necessary to emphasis whenever it comes up, that not all
members of this community follow the Zionist party line. How is that
"privileging" anything whatsoever?

Lastly on Alison Weir. Most people on this list know that Jewish Voices for
Peace broke relations with her. (in turn, few notable pro-Palestinian
activists like Paul Larudee have broken ties with JVP). Her argument boils
down to that "If only Americans knew" about the power and influence the
Israeli's have via their Jewish agents in the US (AIPAC, etc), then US
policy would somehow be pro-Palestinian or at least not pro-Israel. She as
part of a wing of very non-Marxist academics and speakers who are,
objectively, ideological decedents of the old 1950s era "Arab Lobby" who
argued that US Imperialism's interests (especially with regard to building
an anti-Soviet block in the Arab world) lie with anti-Israeli Arab states
and not with Israel. Her politics are very much like the more staid
academics John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt who try to prove the same
thesis in their book "The Israel Lobby". (they do a far better job of this
than Weir but they are equally wrong in their thesis).

Weir, besides have zero understanding of Imperialism as a class, is notable
because she refuses to take up blatant anti-Jewish bigotry when it's thrown
in her face on the many right-wing, tea-party like radio stations she
appears on. Some of these broadcasts are on YouTube or on those networks
steaming audio. She simply sits there and avoids confronting such bigotry.
Among many Palestinian solidarity activists, this is unforgivable.

David W.
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Re: [Marxism] new proposal on the banks

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I will also echo Andy's support for people to look at this article.
Studying banking for Marxists is akin consuming some exotic food or
medicine made up of a gelatinous opaque slop with various forms of pond
life embedded in it. I'm glad someone finally came up with something of a
start a discussion about it. This is an excellent start. At first I
couldn't understand why the drafters of this program on banking simply
didn't *start" with re-instituting Glass-Steagall (the 1933 "Banking Act"
repealed by the Clinton Administration) , then I realized "Oh, they are
Europeans, that explains it!"

Glass-Steagall aside, I think this is a good attempt at reform of the
Banking system, and, in someways, represents a transitional program for it
as capitalism, that is Imperialism, can't actually exist under the
conditions laid out in this program, though they appear totally reasonable
to anyone who sees the banking crisis as I described in the paragraph above.

I would disagree with one thing: the idea of maintaining a "20% cash on
hand" reserve is silly. This would tie up way too much capital and would in
fact stymie investment. Of course in the UK the cash reserve requirement is
only 3%. Brazil on the other hand has a 45% one! The US "technically" is
10% for banks with deposits of over 100 million USD but that is most banks.
Interesting, and coming as no surprise to anyone on this list, the banks
open position on this is to due away with the reserve altogether, because
it amounts to hundreds of billions of USD "just sitting there". They have a
found away around it, however, there is no law preventing banks from
borrowing money from *other* banks the amount of money equivalent to their
actual reserves and speculating with that, using the reserves as an
'unstated' collateral. Gotta love capitalism. It's like the dirt that gets
into every pore and orifice in one's body and playing in the dirt all day.
It always finds a way into to mess with you. Anyway I say "silly" because
these reserves are in fact unnecessary if the the actions in the other part
of the program go into effect, it basically removes any reason for a large
cash reserve as banking crises would, in theory, end.

David
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: America is Staring Into the Abyss and Preparing to Jump

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Oh, joy debates about the Holocaust. This should of been settled, at least
here, a decade or more ago. I believe there was a bump in posts about this
then.

Deborah Lipstadt in her book "*Denying the Holocaust"* put this to rest.
She was one of the few scholars that really tried to take on the neo-Nazi
like Deniers (and I believed coined the term "Holocaust Deniers"). Few
scholars wanted to take the subject on for obvious reasons. It's like
debating the Martian Take Over of the New World Order or something. Anyway,
thankfully, she did. The number she arrived out, was indeed less than "6
Million" but closer to 5.6 million. A distinction without a qualitative
difference.

Like Norman Finklestein, Libstadt is a liberal Zionist. But her methods are
sound and the book, now 25 years old still stands up.
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Re: [Marxism] "Hamilton" for the 1%

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"Other historians are more supportive of the show’s treatment of the
subject. Eric Foner, the author most recently of “Gateway to Freedom: The
Hidden History of the Underground Railroad,”

said he wished the show had complicated its populist portrait by noting
Hamilton’s elitism and dedication to property rights, which were “more
important to him” than fighting slavery, Mr. Foner said."

Based on that quote it seems Foner himself is playing to populist
sentiment. Hamilton, indeed the first authentic "Big Gov't" advocate as a
Federalist was afraid of the masses (reacting, as he did, to the perception
of the French Revolution as "the Mob gone wild") and indeed fearful of
democracy. Yet it's an odd statement...since Jefferson plebeian pretensions
of other anti-Federalists were really no different than Hamilton's,  among
the Founding White Guys. However unlike Hamilton, Jefferson never spoke
about slavery except passing comments at this or that salon and the
occasional letter where he waxed guilty about the "sin" that was slavery.
Jefferson and others learned to live wit hit; Hamilton was a staunch
abolitionist despite his NY mercantile ties. Hamilton's policies worked to
establish the material basis for the underpinning of slavery whereas
Jefferson's (and almost all the anti-Federalists) believed that democracy
simply meant "states rights". Jefferson was fearful of a strong central
gov't, lest it be used to impose abolitionism in his Slave state of
Virginia.

Hamilton was not an active abolitionist to be sure, but never hesitated to
jump into the debate about it unlike the anti-Federalists. He was no Thomas
Paine or Benjamin Franklin, but he was on the right side of the question.

David Walters
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Re: [Marxism] Exploitation of people and of nature.

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Hans,
 I think you take a far too cynical view of list members. Like many, I use
this list for information purposes, links provided, etc. Discussions? Not
so much. But I think you don't get replies on this topic because list
members *agree* with you, not disagree. I can't remember when someone
posted a climate change denial argument here. Why in the world would say
that? I don't remember it but I can't imagine the ruckus it would cause!

In fact, for you information, I pretty much disagree with the entire theme
of  what you posted here under this title. But as I noted I don't really
find this list conducive to a discussion.

David W.
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Re: [Marxism] "BDS - a Jewish Civil War on American campuses" sorry about name mixup1`

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In used the incorrect acronym for "ARG" in my reply to them. I should of
used "AGR" instead. Sorry about that.

David
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Re: [Marxism] "BDS - a Jewish Civil War on American campuses"

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AGR's complaint about Tony Greenstein and downplaying of Palestinian agency
is, largely, correct in this instance. But on the other hand, his blog
(TG's) is mostly accurate *factually* despite this. AGR's stretched
metaphor about the American Civil War I'll let pass.

TG is in Britain the most important columnist on the Marxist left with
regarding to slaying of the increasing adaptation by a minority on the left
to the "Atzmon effect" and the dovetailing of some on the left with the
Zionist belief that one *should* put an equal sign between "Zionism" and
"Jews".

And Tony is active on the "Jewish Left", obviously, dealing with issues of
anti-semitism and Zionism. I think at worse it's unfortunate he did *indeed*
play down the clearly the active leadership role Palestinians play in the
BDS movement today. But the fact is, contrary to AGR...it's a *good thing"
generally that BDS be taken up, in the U.S. especially, *not as an
extension of the Palestinian liberation movement* but as a *U.S.*
anti-Imperialist movement in a united front type formation that seeks to
win over the whole of the American people to defense of Palestinians and
exposure of their oppression by Israel and Zionism. Otherwise, in fact, it
becomes simply an extension of a narrow Palestinian exile politics and will
doom it to failure. In the U.S. BDS has become the form by which all
discussions around the U.S. relationship with Israel, and Israel's
oppression. It is really the only forum by which the specific oppression of
Palestinians in Gaza during the assault there was given an ongoing
discussion. Gaza, more than anything, is what gave BDS some air under it's
wings.

The fact that Jewish-Americans play such a predominate role in BDS is
because it is in fact a reflection in *small part* of that 'civil war'
among Jewish-Americans over Zionism/Israel. Many BDS committees on campus,
especially those without an active political Arab constituency, are often
started by Jewish-American students. AGR seems to either deny this reality
or is "opposed" to it for some reason having to do with exclusive(?)
Palestinian agency. I'm *glad* Jewish-American students do this.
Regardless...the success of BDS will be when and if they can break out of
both the Arab and Jewish-American/leftist ghettos and develop a broad-based
leadership and organization beyond these groups, especially among labor,
and Latino and Black student groups.

Anti-Zionism IS being attacked as anti-Semitism. That is because on
*campus* it is Zionist groups allied with reactionary conservative one's,
like David Horowitz's latch up, that is leading the charge and thus it
becomes a "Jewish" issue. I would argue it's important for Jewish-American
students in BDS and the BDS more over, to refocus, as AGR implies and I
would agree with, around the issue of *Palestine* as much as possible. But
we can't always control that narrative as AGR suggests.
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Re: [Marxism] On Trade, Donald Trump Breaks With 200 Years of Economic Orthodoxy

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I've read most of what (everything I could find on free trade) by M I
think in general it's anemic. I *wish* they had written a whole lot more. I
think it lacks the needed historical study of how Britain became Britain
and the role that mercantilism played along with the massive tariff system
and outright banning of goods from other nations and colonies (especially
the latter).

Above all...a "wish" would of been for them to do a serious study of the
political economy of the US. I don't think they really did. They certainly
had a good understanding of the US political economy from the 1840s on, at
least within the larger understanding of the US industrial development,
slavery, etc. But before that? Not so much.

David W.
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Re: [Marxism] On Trade, Donald Trump Breaks With 200 Years of Economic Orthodoxy

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A quite fascinating article. There was never anything orthodox among
economists that "trade is good". It is a meaningless statement unless
contextualized.

The fastest growth rate in US economic history (real growth, not
speculative 'growth' based on money) was during the first 30 years of US
history, based, entirely, on a highly regulated trade between the US and
Europe (the slave trade, not withstanding, was ended as such quite early)
most notably Britain. But it was based on the tariff which is what
financed, entirely, the US gov't (minus a few sin taxes like the whiskey
tax). The tariff ran well past Lincoln's administration (he was a big
advocate of it) and of course the tariff(s) were regularly tweaked up and
down depending on what party ran Congress or sat in the White House.

Trump's fantasy, if it's actually true what he says (he said that
previously, doesn't mean he won't change his mind, like, tomorrow) is akin
to Sander's fantasy that he can get anything he is proposing against a
party that is 180 degrees out from his program. What Republican is going to
vote for free trade or support a tariff..something that would blow up the
WTO and every trade agreement in the last 30 years? None, that's how many.

Secondly, what are the consequences? When you put, say, a 35% tariff on
Chinese products...you are talking about an almost instant 35% *effective*
inflation rate. It's one thing if you are trying reign in cheapER goods
that produced in the US, it's altogether different when there maybe no
production in the US to begin with. Then you are asking for trouble.

I think Trump doesn't actually understand anything about capitalism
(despite protestations from Trump supporters, there is a huge difference
between someone who understands business and one that understands
economics) or how it works. That is the "political" part of
"political-economy". He is, actually, a second rate version of the grade-B
politician from 20 years ago, Ross Perot. Essentially he's a terrible
sequel to a terrible movie. Direct to video but not to be taken too
seriously.
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[Marxism] Fwd: No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

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And of course this from Eric Lerner:
http://www.plasma-universe.com/Plasma_Universe_resources#The_Big_Bang_Never_Happened_by_Eric_J._Lerner
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Re: [Marxism] 1941 - Japan starves

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The two comments made about the article are worth considering:

How would international sanctions effect domestic production of rice? It
seems like a cognitive disconnect that goes unexplained. Additionally, how
did the war...in 1941 well before it reached the shorts of Japan, prevent
Japanese fishermen from fishing?

DW
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[Marxism] Russia switches to Chinese currency for oil sales; dumps the petro dollar

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This is from a Russian "news" outlet so buyers beware. But it's an
interesting development and I was wondering what people thought of this.

This represents the long running desire of the Chinese (and also Russian)
governments to break out from reliance on the US Dollar for international
trade, especially with regard to crude oil purchases. However, they have to
be careful not to effect a lowering of value of the USD both because of
their ownership of US debt but also directly with regards to the ability to
keep their currency lower in value to facility the international trade of
their own commodity export industry.

--David

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/saudi-arabia-has-lost-asia-russia-now-chinas-biggest-oil-partner/ri12611
Goodbye Petrodollar: Russia Accepts Yuan, Is Now China's Biggest Oil Partner

Russia reaps the rewards of dumping the dollar

Russia is now the top crude exporter to China
,
the largest (or second largest, depending on whom you ask) oil demand
growth country in the world.

At the start of the decade, Saudi Arabia enjoyed a 20% share of Chinese
crude imports, while Russia was lagging far behind with 7%. Now the Saudis
find themselves neck and neck with Moscow for the lead in Chinese market
share, with both performing in the 13-16% range. But Russia's share
continues to rise, as The Kingdom struggles to maintain a foothold.

Why? Analysts attribute Russia's huge market share growth to its
willingness to accept yuan, while Saudi Arabia is still clinging to
blood-soaked dollars. As Business Insider notes:


Interestingly, part of Russia's success in China has been attributed to *its
willingness to accept Chinese yuan denominated currency

for its oil*.

This is consistent with earlier forecasts about Russia's market share in
China. Bloomberg reported back in July

:

“*Following Russia’s recent acceptance of the renminbi as payments for oil,
we expect more record high oil imports ahead to China*,” Gordon Kwan, the
Hong Kong-based head of regional oil and gas research at Nomura Holdings
Inc., said in an e-mail, referring to the Chinese currency. “If Saudi
Arabia wants to recapture its number one ranking, *it needs to accept the
renminbi for oil payments instead of just the dollar*.”

As both the head of the Eurasian Economic Union (and founding member of
BRICS), as well as a major energy exporter, Russia is leading the charge
against the dollar. And now other nations are following suit: Iran and
India announced last month

that they intend to settle all outstanding crude oil payments in rupees, as
part of a joint strategy to dump the dollar and trade instead in national
currencies.

The dollar is slowly losing its privileged place in international
transactions. What this means for the United States is anyone's guess.
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Re: [Marxism] Sabotaging the water tax in Ireland

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Wait...what? Water is FREE in Ireland? Seriously? Out of curiosity...are
there any other countries where water is not metered?

DW
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[Marxism] Request for back issues of Monthly Review for Holt Labor Library

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All,
thanks to the generous donation of supporters of the Holt Labor Library
(located in San Francisco), we have been able to partly fill out our
inventory of back issues of Monthly Review magazine. We are, however, still
missing about a decades worth of back issues.

The Library is still looking for donations of these back issues for the
following years:

1958 though 1967, 1969, 1980,1981.

Please contact me off list if you can donate to our collection.

David Walters
Director, Holt Labor Library
david.walters66 [at] comcast.net
415 387 5700
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Re: [Marxism] Russia presented 'evidence' of Turkey's oil ties to ISIS — but it has a crucial flaw

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I think the article is flawed, though it is fascinating.

The underlying assumption, not proven but only assumed, is that ISIS is
smuggling oil to Turkey (and Syria's gov't as well). ISIS does none of
this. They don't smuggle. The drivers as has been shown in numerous other
articles are Turks, Arabs and even Kurds who operate independently. "Owner
operators" so to speak though some seem to be tied to Turkish mafia groups.

These drives enter Syria with the money to purchase the oil. Oil is sold at
the well head, not in some online international market. Everyone, *bar
none*, buys this oil. Assad, Kurdish forces (who have their own set of
small oil refineries to to turn into transport fuel), even local
non-Jihadish forces. Every one. From what I've read now, there is, to put
it politely, no exceptions to this except Kurdish forces in Iraq that don't
need it.

But the money goes to ISIS. Since the Iran-Iraq War Turkey has been an
outlet for these drives to 'smuggle' oil out of the region. Turkey has the
power in a second to shut  this down. These trucks, carrying about 2,000 to
6,000 gallons of oil, have to use roads robust enough to  drive on. If
Turkey wanted to they could stop this and dry up ISIS from their main
steady source of financial support.

DW
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Re: [Marxism] has Jacobin seen the light?

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Actually, Clay, they did, in 2014. Bombed the shit out of two oil
refineries which lead to black-outs and protests:

http://www.syriadeeply.org/articles/2014/10/6263/power-cuts-lead-shopkeepers-protest-isis-country/

My understanding is that Ragga is something of a septic-tank city with a
sewer system that basically collects the sewage from the "downtown" area...
and discharges out into the dessert east of the city. So there isn't much
to bomb. Power is partially decentralized using diesel run generators
scattered about. It's really a small town, not much to bomb. I suspect the
reason not to do this might be that the bombing of Germany and Japan did
absolutely zip to turn people away from their respective dictatorships. It
also didn't work in Vietnam (though it almost did according to Giap). Just
doesn't work as a rule. If one is going to play Bomber Command (British Air
Force and mass murderers in WWII) then you level the city totally and kill
everyone. That would work. That's doable. I suspect it wouldn't play well
now. The internet is too pervasive and a lot more widespread than it was in
2003.

That's your answer.

DW
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: The Chavez Doctrine or Revolutionary Socialism?

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Chavez did utter those words, more tongue in cheek than at all a serious
self applied label. He had an association and friendship with Alan Woods,
the British Trotskyist as well as friends who were or had been Trotskyists
and who supported his regime. If I'm not mistaken when he said this he did
so in response to a Trotskyist/sectarian attack on him, implying he was the
only Trotskyist around, not the other guy making the criticism.

Parenthetically "Trotskyist" has become a negative point of reference from
the ruling MAS in Bolivia and used to differentiate supporters of the MAS
(not Trotskyist) from all left opponents of the gov't ("The Trotskyists").

David
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Re: [Marxism] Big Pharma Bad Pharma

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Yes, Big Pharma is excellent. He's been sued and threatened because of it.
However...a more controversial book and even better, IMO, is his "Bad
Science: Quacks, Hacks, and Big Pharma Flacks" which covers the scams of
quack medicine that many on the left hold to like acupuncture, homeopathy
(officially sanctioned in Britain) and chiropractic.  The great thing about
this book is on *method*. He explained in great detail, but easy to
understand language, how clinical trials are run, how double-blind testing
is conducted and why alternative "medicine" is fraudulent because not a one
of them can stand up to a blind or double-blind trial.

The best part of his book explains how Britain cut sucked into the
anti-vaccination scam that caused the deaths of children whose parents kept
them from getting vaccines. He goes over the methodology of vaccinations
and how the anti-vax movement there was exposed a hoax and how this was
accomplished. A truly excellent book.

David Walters
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Re: [Marxism] Two Different Paths: Syriza and Podemos or the FIT?

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I think Louis' criteria that being mentioned by the New York Times being a
criteria for what is important is ludicrous (of course again he called me
out for not recognizing his notorious sarcasm in the past so who knows?) to
the extreme. The FIT won elections in Argentina. The FIT preformed into the
double digit area in provincial elections. They are a lot smaller than
SYRIZA is even when the latter started out a few years ago. Of course Louis
might now know this since, well, he relies on the NYT for all things left
in Latin America, or so he implies. The Personist and national press *in*
Argetnina, that is their papers of record have *not* ignored the FIT and
have seemingly sounded the alarm of Trotskyism coming to threaten all
that is good and godly there.

The FIT is a hodge-podge of mostly Trot groups. There seems to be more than
just the PO (not Morenoist) and the PTS (ex-Morenoist). The problem they
have other than being highly polemical, recruiting  competition among these
groups, both of which number only between 1 and 2 thousand, is something
SYRZIA hasn't had to face: Peronism, which no one seems to recognize as
holding the loyalty of the Argentine working class *to this day*. And this
includes the FIT which also seems incapable of addressing that section of
the class that still holds loyalty to all things Peronist.

Both the PO and PTS have variously a lot of respect among workers,
including Peronist workers, who vote for their slates in union elections.
Argentina still has one of the highest rates of unionization in the world.
Both groups, however, formed the FIT only so they could get on the ballot
and maybe pull-off some election victories. They succeeded in both. But
neither resolved their differences. They are still isolated and,
*apparently* still have yet to really win over an actual section of the
working class or provide a pole that could be attractive to workers who
perhaps will vote for them in union or even national elections but don't
see them as leading anything important enough to join them or see them as
leaders of the class.

Morena in Mexico has promise, or so I'm told by Mexican friends but they
are as racked by factionalism as, it appears, similar to that FIT. The
advantage  for Morena is the person of Andres Lopez Obrador who by force of
personality and personage, is a unifying figure, despite his own adaptation
to the State (he refused for a decade to visit either Cuba or Venezuela for
fear of being tarred with the Chavismo brush). The other united left
front is the OPT or Workers Political Organization with a dozen far and
near-far left groups. It was found by the militant class struggle union,
the SME, representing Mexico's electrical union. My understanding is that
both groups (OPT and Morena work together in areas of agreement). Morena
appears to be strictly electoral, the OPT is involved in the class struggle
at the level of the street.

Louis' criticism about benchmarks, however, is well taken. It's an area I
agree with him on. The benchmark is *our class* and immediate policies
needed to alleviate the conditions of the class or sections that are in
struggle against Imperialism and their cronies in government. Any front
that doesn't address these issues beyond leaflets and a newspaper article
is useless. If it doesn't mobilize and fight then what good is it?

I would add that looking for models around the world is a waste of time.
This is proven over and over again. Whatever arises in Argentina today or
tomorrow will do so based on the lessons or the *Argentine* working class
and not the Mexican or Greek one.

David
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Re: [Marxism] Israel uses dirty bombs

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I think one misses the point. Implied in the Haaretz article is that the
use of harmless technetium in these experiments is necessarily an important
part in developing dirty bombs. It's true no modern state has ever
developed one as they have limited military value. However, they do have
very specific *political* value as a form of terrorism or, should one
believe in these sorts of things, false-flag operations. The point if one
*were* tp develop a dirty bomb that is exactly how they would do it which
is almost stated in the article: measuring the spread of radioactive
material...in this case, harmless technetium, to measure the dosage and
spread of such particles. The data is then fed into computers and computer
models could then be developed in order further along the RD needed to
create such weapons. This is in fact how they develop modern nuclear bombs
without setting one off: computer models.

I agree with Jeff and Andy that Israel has a lot of better things to do in
order to project it's power than dirty bombs...but think of what kind of
panic if they set on off with, say, cobalt instead technetium, in, say, an
Iranian city. So that this sort of RD while perhaps not what Israel maybe
doing, it's not far fetched to consider that is *exactly* what they are
doing, either.

David Walters
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[Marxism] Issue of Socialist Action sought for scanning

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The MIA and Riazanov/Holt Labor Library project is looking for issue No. 1
of Socialist Action. If anyone has it and can part with it for a week or
so, please write me off list at:

david.walters66

@

Comcast.net
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[Marxism] FWD: ILWU Local 10 decided tonight to shutdown port of Oakland on May Day to protest police killings

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FWD

April 16,  2015



To our Friends of ILWU Local 10,

On behalf of the members of the South Carolina AFL-CIO and working men and
women in this country and around the world, we want to commend ILWU Local
10 for your courageous actions of solidarity with the families and
communities of the many police killings and brutalities that have unjustly
stolen the lives of innocent victims and robbed their communities of trust
and faith in their law enforcement and government.
Steeped deep in a history of activism,  ILWU Local 10 has been on the front
lines to protest the injustices faced by workers around the world and to
support workers in the midst of their trials throughout the last century.
Your power to truth and generosity to those in need are a beacon of hope
and a symbol of freedom to workers every where.
You supply courage to the members of the SC AFL-CIO as we continue to
address the unwarranted  killing of Walter Scott. We will share your
message of solidarity and reach out to workers around the country to join
with us on May 1st in actions to protest the continuing unjustified
killings.


In Solidarity,

ErinMcKee, President
Charles Brave, Vice President
Donna Dewitt, President Emeritus
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[Marxism] Eric Blanc: Finland 1906: The revolutionary roots of women’s suffrage — an International Women’s Day tribute

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In 1906, Finland became the world’s first nation to grant full female
suffrage.[1]
https://johnriddell.wordpress.com/2015/03/04/finland-1906-the-revolutionary-roots-of-womens-suffrage-an-international-womens-day-tribute/#_edn1
This watershed achievement for women was won by Finnish socialists during
the revolutionary upheaval that swept the Czarist empire to which Finland
belonged.

Yet this important history has been overlooked by both academics and
activists. Abraham Ascher’s standard work on the 1905 revolution in Czarist
Russia, for instance, completely omits any mention of Finnish suffrage and
argues that “the efforts of women to achieve equality bore few concrete
results during the revolution.”[2]
https://johnriddell.wordpress.com/2015/03/04/finland-1906-the-revolutionary-roots-of-womens-suffrage-an-international-womens-day-tribute/#_edn2
In the few non-Finnish books that address the 1906 victory, the role of the
socialist movement is generally marginalized: David Kirby writes that
suffrage “was conceded virtually without a struggle” and Barbara Evans
Clements portrays mainstream feminists like Alexandra Gripenberg as the
suffrage battle’s main protagonists.

FULL:

https://johnriddell.wordpress.com/2015/03/04/finland-1906-the-revolutionary-roots-of-womens-suffrage-an-international-womens-day-tribute/


https://johnriddell.wordpress.com/2015/03/04/finland-1906-the-revolutionary-roots-of-womens-suffrage-an-international-womens-day-tribute/#_edn3

https://johnriddell.wordpress.com/2015/03/04/finland-1906-the-revolutionary-roots-of-womens-suffrage-an-international-womens-day-tribute/#_edn3

https://johnriddell.wordpress.com/2015/03/04/finland-1906-the-revolutionary-roots-of-womens-suffrage-an-international-womens-day-tribute/#_edn3

https://johnriddell.wordpress.com/2015/03/04/finland-1906-the-revolutionary-roots-of-womens-suffrage-an-international-womens-day-tribute/#_edn3
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[Marxism] A plea to the author of WHY RUSSIAN WORKERS' STATE...

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Tony,
please stop using all caps in your title. It's obnoxious. In netiquette
this is the same as YELLING at someone. If you want to emphasize something,
must put *asteriks* around it. Please, one day I'll read your
stuff...instead of deleting it outright...because you use all caps in title.

David
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Re: [Marxism] Theory Question on right-wing anti-Zionism

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There is nothing irrational about US foreign policy in the Middle East,
including the invasion of Iraq. Imperialism knows fully well what is in
it's interest, and that interest means anything from control over other
nations to full and total domination over them.

The idea that Israel is able to bend and distort somehow American
Imperialism to actually go against it's class interest is the
non-materialist thinking of the likes of Jeff Blankfort and James Petras
and is congruent with the original anti-Jewish anti-Zionist Arab Lobby of
the 1940s and 1950s reflected today by only real decedent of that view,
Patrick Buchanan.

Those who advocate that Israel sets the policy of the US toward itself and
the region know little about how and why Imperialism does what it does. US
support has paid off in spades for the US during the Cold War and beyond to
this day.

Israel is powerful and its lobby  AIPAC is quite strong and influential,
which no one, least of all AIPAC, denies. But that it can actually shape
that policy is nonsense. If for whatever reason there is real and actual
conflict over the interests of US Imperialism and Israeli Imperialism,
AIPAC will disappear or scale back, and every single politico will dump
Israel like a ton of bricks (as unlikely a scenario as that sounds) and
that includes all the Jewish-American politicos as well.

David Walters
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Re: [Marxism] Katyn massacre

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Glenn: I realize that some people on this list will not read anything
written by Grover Furr

Why would this be? I read his work and I can't find much to argue with
methodologically.

Really? Interesting.

His method is terrible, IMO. If you read his most important work
Khrushchev Lied which purports to show evidence that Trotsky
collaborated not only with the Nazis but with the Japanese Monarchy is
based on the *exact* same methodology...that is the frame up...used by
Vishinsky in his prosecution and eventual murder of the Old Bolsheviks in
1937...that is: confessions. The confessionary strategy of prosecution was
based on the sheer *terror* of being threatened with death, or one's
family, and without the right of cross examination. Furr's supposes that no
one had a reason to lie thus all the testimony must be true.

A good smashing of Grover's method in his defense of the Moscow Trials is
here:

*http://tinyurl.com/lspl7np http://tinyurl.com/lspl7np*  Their site
appears to be down this morning but check in later.
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[Marxism] logistics

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Andy is correct about the importance of this article. It's a great use of a
Marxist method to analyses parts of the capitalist economy as it has
evolved over the recent decades. It also serves as a 'progressive' basis
for what could be done under socialism and a planned economy.

To respond to Andy's question. Even under Imperialism, the 'fusion of
finance and manufacturing capital with finance dominant' the actual
production of surplus value is still at the point of production regardless
of what sector of Imperialism controls it or is dominant over it. Just
something to keep in mind that in Allan's article, his description is
really about the massive centralization of the circulation of commodities,
efficiencies installed, profitability, etc etc...but if you look at the
role that rail play in over 100 years ago, it is really hard to see the
difference (in fact rail still is very important, Allan's article focuses
on air freight, but most freight is still handled by ships and railroads,
not by air).

Air cargo is an expanding industry, and not only for amazon and the final
retail delivery of products (which the article focuses on) but also on
secondary processed materials like machine tools, specialized components
for machinery, etc.

Take Otis Elevator. It used to be that Otis would ship an elevator or set
of elevators to a construction site in an office building by rail and truck
or just truck. Now, with just-on-time delivery for construction sites with
limited laydown space for building materials, they will ship it by plane on
the evening before it needs to be installed. The cost for shipping by air
is huge but can save because the contractors don't mind paying for it if it
means they don't have to hold onto it in a warehouse which costs money. So
air freight is increasing for even non-retail commodity distribution.
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[Marxism] Threatened Smelt Touches Off Battles in California’s Endless Water Wars

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Please read the article Louis posted. It's very important and not just
because I live in NorCal. Then, take a look google maps and search for
Antioch, ca. then expand it out and you'll see the Delta as it proceeds
west to San Francisco Bay and east, south and north to the Sacramento River
and San Joaquin Rivers.

They want to take the water from *north* of the delta and dig two tunnels
to *south* of the Delta so that the fresh mountain water that feeds the
Sacramento River *bypasses* the Delta and is allowed to flow, essentially
into the San Joaquin River.

Ever single plan involved or ever proposed would increase, not decrease the
salinity by sea water intrusion from the Bay into the Delta.

The underlying long range reason for this has to do with SoCal agricultural
and industrial interests wanting to steal the water from better
hydraulically endowed NorCal. The Delta is already threatened, badly, from
vast tracts, 10s of thousands of acres of housing developments all along
the water way during the pre-2006 building boom.

So far even the people of SoCal understand what's going on and have
defeated every attempt to expand the state and federal water projects
designed to ship water south. I hope it stays that way and the state can
deal with better ways of handling our water resources such as banning the
growing of rice and cotton in the State which is simply insane given how
much they use of our water.

David
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[Marxism] Fwd: Leon Trotsky: The Slogan: The United States Of Europe (1923)

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He was more in line with Syriza apparently.

Oh, please. Trotsky was no for what passes as a united Europe today as he
was for a Germany consolidating Europe under it's rule in WWII. A pathedic
attempt to show Trotsky was for...what? A united Imperialist Europe?

Syriza is simply caught up an a contradiction. It thinks it can exist in
Europe...which itself was *totally conceived* as a way of saving
Imperialism by rolling back the gains of the working class since the end of
WWII and at the same time oppose austerity, the single most important issue
facing Greece. Leftists who defend Europe or being in Europe simply are,
what are writer above had done, as project something progressive onto
what is clearly a reactionary construct. The reason Greece is in this
position has to do with the rule of fiscalizing the economy of members
countries. Thus this United Europe attacking every single gain of the
working class, pushing privatizations, ending social welfare and attacking
unions through labor reform.

Either Syriza will fulfill it's promise of ending austerity or it will
compromise on this somehow, thus disappointing it's base. If it stays in
Europe, it has to fiscalize, one way or another.

If there is an actual socialist revolution in Greece, it will end their
membership in the Eurozone. Can't happen fast enough.

David
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[Marxism] A list of MIA mirrors to use in the meantime

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A better formatted and complete list of our mirrors:

http://marxists.catbull.com/
https://marxists.anu.edu.au/
http://marxists.architexturez.net/

Located in France, Australia and Texas, respectively. Available from
anywhere.

David Walters
MIA Admin Comm.
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[Marxism] Granma English,

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http://en.granma.cu/ is the new URL for the English Language page for
Gramna. And the mass organizations have new addresses as well. Thanks to
Walter Lippmann for this.

David
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Re: [Marxism] Irish politics - a grand coalition of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael

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Phillip, in your opinion would there be any change in politics in Ireland
should SF ever form a gov't? Is there that much difference left on any of
major issues?

David
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[Marxism] Huffington post: Anti-Bailout Syriza Party Wins Greek Election By Wide Margin, Officials Say

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ATHENS, Greece (AP) — The radical left, anti-austerity Syriza party has won
Greece's vote, election officials said
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_GREECE_ELECTION?SITE=APSECTION=HOMETEMPLATE=DEFAULTCTIME=2015-01-25-14-45-15
on Sunday.

But it was unclear whether the communist-rooted party, led by 40-year-old
Alexis Tsipras, had won by a big enough margin over Prime Minister Antonis
Samaras' incumbent conservatives to govern alone. For that, they need a
minimum 151 of parliament's 300 seats.

Official results from 17.6 percent of polling stations counted showed
Syriza with 35 percent and Samaras' New Democracy with 29.3 percent. An
exit poll on state-run Nerit TV projected Syriza as winning with between 36
and 38 percent, compared to ND with 26-28 percent.

Earlier projections had given Syriza 146-158 seats in parliament, and New
Democracy 65-75 seats.

Outgoing Prime Minister Samaras conceded defeat
http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/jan/25/greek-election-syriza-confident-of-victory-live-updates
late on Sunday, and called Syriza's Tsirpas to congratulate him on the
victory.

Tsipras has promised to renegotiate the country's 240 billion-euro ($270
billion) international bailout deal, and seek forgiveness for most of
Greece's massive debt load. He has pledged to reverse many of the reforms
that creditors demanded — including cuts in pensions and the minimum wage,
some privatizations and public sector firings — in exchange for keeping
Greece financially afloat since 2010.

As Tsirpas went to cast his vote in Athens, youth activists from his Syriza
party were heard
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/greeks-polls-critical-snap-general-election-28460553
to chant the Left's time has come!

What's clear is we have a historic victory that sends a message that does
not only concern the Greek people, but all European peoples, Syriza party
spokesman Panos Skourletis said on Mega television. There is great relief
among all Europeans. The only question is how big a victory it is.

Skourletis said the election results heralded a return of social dignity
and social justice. A return to democracy. Because, beyond the wild
austerity, democracy has suffered. He stated that Syriza's victory sends
a message against austerity and in favour of dignity and democracy.

Syriza's anti-bailout rhetoric appealed to many in a country that, in the
past five years of its acute financial crisis, has seen a quarter of its
economy wiped out, unemployment of above 25 percent, and average income
losses of at least 30 percent.

But it has also renewed doubts over Greece's ability to emerge from its
financial crisis, and fears that the country's finances could once again
send shockwaves through global markets and undermine the euro, the currency
shared by 19 European countries.

[image: greece]
People look at a giant screen showing a exit poll on January 25, 2015 in
Athens, Greece. (Photo by Matt Cardy/Getty Images)

Samaras' New Democracy party conceded defeat not too long after the exit
poll was announced.

We lost, Health Minister and conservative party parliamentary spokesman
Makis Voridis told private Mega TV, adding that the extent of the defeat
wasn't yet clear. He said the government's austerity policies, implemented
to secure vital international bailouts, make sense but were cut short
before they could bear fruit.

Administrative Reform Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis congratulated Syriza,
saying its victory cannot be questioned.

It is evident the Greek people believed there is another way forward than
the one described by the government, he said. For the good of the
country, I hope they are right.

Greeks have faced years of austerity measures, including cuts in wages,
pensions and government spending, and tax increases.

Greece's creditors insist the country must abide by previous commitments to
continue receiving support, and investors and markets alike have been
spooked by the anti-bailout rhetoric. Greece could face bankruptcy if a
solution is not found, although speculation of a Grexit — Greece leaving
the euro — and a potential collapse of the currency has been far less
fraught than during the last general election in 2012.

There is an expectation of economic relief for many, of a reboot of the
economy and there will be a new debate on the servicing of the debt,
Syriza's Skourletis said. Europeans have accommodated themselves with the
idea.

Hundreds of people turned out to celebrate outside Syriza's main electoral
kiosk in central Athens, waving flags and cheering.

The centrist Potami (River) party was battling for third place with the
Nazi-inspired, extreme right-wing Golden Dawn, 

Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba

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 There's an important cultural difference that comes to play here:
while in the US Jewishness is seen as a religious identity, in the
Eastern Europe it is more of a cultural or ethnic identity... 

WTF??? Obviously you've never been to Jerusalem...that is, NEW YORK CITY,
have you? You view of American Jewish identify is false.

D.
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Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba

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Gawddd! First, though you might not know it, was born in NYC and I'm
Jewish. Everyone knows it is the capital of Jewish culture, or, as my uncle
Albert used to say, if it ain't, it should be. That Jewish Americans
only make up 20% of the population of the City... you ought to know more
about the role Jews played after 1900 in developing that City's culture.
Jerusalem, the future capital of Palestine, only comes in at 780,000 and
not all of them are Jewish.So, at Passover here in California, when we say
Next Year in Jerusalem, it doesn't meant the Zionist entity to me My
first impression of Israel when I went there as a young teenager was that
there were, seemingly, a lot Israelis, but very few Jews. I'll let you
digest the implications of that.

My snarky remark was in reaction to the hugely ignorant statement about
America's Jews being identifiable mostly be religious
self-identification. I wanted to set the record straight. Ken felt my
comment could be perceived as suggesting there may be too many Jews in NYC.
Sorry for the confusion. Though, truth be told, the only people I've *EVER*
heard make that comment are Jewish New Yorkers. Go figure?

DW
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Re: [Marxism] Limits to Growth was right?

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Approaching the Limits of Growth is a capitalist concept or reaction in
response to problems of development and growth under...capitalism.
Production for human needs doesn't mean less growth, it might mean more
growth, but done more wisely for human needs and the ecology and not for
profit.

How would this play out? I judge development projects based on each unique
set of issues that confront it, realizing that economic expansion
*everywhere* is done within the context of a world Imperialist system. The
Limits of Growth is *purely* Malthusian and can only offer destruction,
poverty and de-development as the solution. So we need something better.

I will site two examples.

The Keystone Pipeline is something that at the end of the day, is worse
than what it could benefit us. Beside the fact that none of the oil will be
used domestically but to fill the Imperialist world market for gasoline and
other refined petroleum profits and thus the motivation only fills the
speculative need of the profiteers, we should question its value. *We do
NOT need this oil* (by we I mean our species) For me, that means that
extracting it and processing it means the use of huge amounts of oil and
natural gas to process the tar sands from which it comes, creating a huge
GHG problem, way more than conventional oil sources and so, on this basis
alone, it is not worth the effort. I don't buy the problem with the 'leaks'
which do occur but are containable. There are thousands of miles of oil
pipelines there over the Ogallala Aquifer already and damage to it has not
really been that big an issue. Is it an issue ? Well yes, of course, but
something that could be resolved quickly, IMHO, because they are quote
localized and generally very contained. Oil pipelines have been there for 5
decades already and no one said squat about them until now. But other oil
projects maybe supportable. Why...because the world still need oil and
fossil fuels, the mode of production notwithstanding, until such a time as
we can change the way we use transportation energy to get around. All told
the Keystone seems like a looser proposition with zero upside.

Secondly, a tale of two canals. The Nicaragua Interoceanic Grand Canal is
very controversial. There is much opposition locally in Nicaragua and,
equally, much support for it. On the basis of the huge injection into the
economy there and the jobs it will create it is hard to argue against.
However, the ecological damage may well be the worse thing to hit Central
American in decades and could be irreversible. Not to mention massive
displacement of local folks who live, or lived until expelled, in this new
canal zone. But the real reason is that it is an incredible waste of
resources and investment: the Canal project ONLY serves the interest of
trans-oceanic corporations who want to slim pennies off their cargo costs
by using *totally unnecessary larger super freighters*! It lowers some fuel
costs, lots of labor costs for on board crews and is faster to move cargo
on and off one big ship than two smaller ones at dockside. The project
*only* serves the shipping companies and adds nothing to a general
expansion of the productive forces that could actually benefit people.

Lastly something I might support that makes sense: the Kra Canal in
Thailand to cut across the Thai Isthmus. Currently the worlds shipping has
to be funneled through the Straights of Malacca in Malaysia and Indonesia
to pass through the Singapore Straights. Singapore, the British and the US
love this because it's controllable from a strategic point of view. The
problem is that piracy is almost impossible to stop in the Straights; it
gives Singapore (read: British) monopoly rights over intermodel transfer of
containers; and it costs shippers, the products they ship, and huge fuel
expenditures (and thus resulting CHC emissions from diesel fuel) major
costs.

The British have gone so far as to force the Thai gov't to agree to never
build a canal there. They don't want to lose their control over shipping.
There have been for decades various proposals to build this canal and it's
supported by every ocean going nation of both sides of Thailand. I haven't
looked at it in enough detail yet to know of the environmental and
dislocation costs to the people of the area but it seems like a worthwhile
endeavor at least to consider on balance.

David Walters
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[Marxism] Fwd: SYRIZA and Elections in Greece: Crisis, Challenges and Potential

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So this all brings us to the question: assuming that SYRIZA does win the
elections, as all the evidence points to, what happens next? For one,
SYRIZA would face not only the resistance of the Troika, the ruling classes
of Europe, the conservative and social democratic parties of Greece, and
the capitalists at home. For one, SYRIZA would probably have to form a
coalition government, unless they were to gain 35-40% of the vote which
would give them an absolute majority meaning they'd have to compromise with
other parties. If SYRIZA were to come to power, they may face heavy
pressure from the Troika that cause them to fail and toppling the
government. Or the pressure could cause SYRIZA to temper its radicalism and
continue the agenda of austerity.

Yet ruling class is not the only resistance SYRIZA faces. They also have
to deal with the Greek people – millions of whom are jobless and have spent
years fighting austerity. While the reformists in SYRIZA will try to play
respectful, the masses of people, possessing a government that at least
promises to improve their position, could push farther than Tsipras and the
reformists are willing to go. This could lead to a revolutionary showdown
with the forces of Greek capitalism and imperialism throughout Europe.

FULL:
http://www.openmediaboston.org/content/syriza-and-elections-greece-crisis-challenges-and-potential-3072
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[Marxism] US SWP's Education for Socialists bulletins online

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All the non-copyrighted Education for Socialist bulletins are now on line
at:

http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/document/swp-us/education/

This is a large collection of Marxist educational material on sorts of
topics,  however much of it only relevant to the more narrow confines of
the SWP brand of Trotskyism. Nevertheless it represents a great
achievement.

The page is a listing of all the links to the bulletins and lists every one
we know about including the post 1980 ones that were copyrighted.

Thanks to Marty Goodman of the Riazanov Library Project for the work of
digitizing these bulletins and the Holt Labor Library for providing the
hard copy.
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Re: [Marxism] US SWP's Education for Socialists bulletins online

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Yeah, I may of overstated this. This is a reflection of the SWP's positions
by and large. They are not general educational material on Marxism in the
broadest sense. Interestingly, the 1950s series of educational bulletins
are oriented more to political economy and general Marxism-Leninism. But
these take up specifically the SWP's politics and outlook. By narrow I was
think of the rather massive bulletins on characters like Gerry Healy.

DW
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Re: [Marxism] ‘Provocative’ Bolshevik anti-Religious Caricatures.

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Actually nothing in these posters or, even the ones LINKED from within the
article, are from EARLY 1920s but from the LATE 1920s. There appears to be
in the page indicated the early 1920s one from that, which is not
'satire' but educational and addresses very specifically the subjection of
women. In case anyone wanted to know Lenin's views on religion and the
RSDLP's position toward those believers among the working class, here is an
essay where he takes on the flaming atheists in the movement who want
nothing more than to attack religion:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1909/may/13.htm

It should be noted also that Bolshevik women cadre after 1918 wore the vale
in Soviet Central Asia as to better talk with Muslim women about the
problems of Islam and their oppression by it. At no point did they make fun
or satire of Islam. At least I've not been able to find it. Obviously that
would of been ... counter-productive.

DW
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Re: [Marxism] JeSuisCharlie???,

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In any case, do we really support the right of Nazis to march? I, and I
think others on this list, do not support government measures to prevent
them from marching. We do support mobilizations of working people and
targeted minorities to prevent the Nazis from marching.

No, we don't. We *oppose* or should the State's banning of marches and
political currents based on a supposed 'anti-racist' position. But this
doesn't mean we defend and think it's OK for Nazi's to march. We don't
support 'free speech for fascists' as their marching is a form of
organizing and terror and we defend ourselves through counter-mobilizing to
run them off the streets. I remember some comrades in the SWP back when the
Nazis were planning for a march through the heavily Jewish section of  a
Chicago suburb (with a large number of Holocaust survivors) argued,
correctly IMO, that we 'want them to march'...so the community can kick
their asses out of town.

But we don't want the bosses government to do this since it would be used
against the workers and communities of the oppressed.

David
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Re: [Marxism] Marta Harnecker: Decentralised participatory planning based on experiences of Brazil, Venezuela and the state of Kerala, India

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The problem is that participatory democracy which had it's biggest
expression in Brazil under Lula, was an attempt to get the regions and
cities of Brazil to assume the huge national debt of the IMF. It was we
are not going to impose anything on you! you can decide, not the central
government in Brasilia, on what services to roll back and which to
privatize. Not to worry!. It was a sham there and as it is most places.

David
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Re: [Marxism] We Must All Support SYRIZA

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 I dealt with that at length in an article on species extinction and
imperialist war in the Fall 2007 Science and Society. The next time you are
in a library, you might benefit from a perusal. David Harvey described it
as an eye-opener. 

Louis, can you bee more specific...there is nothing by you in the Fall
issue of 2007 SS. They have an October issue but you are not in it and
neither are you in the one before or after.

http://www.scienceandsociety.com/backcontents.html

David
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[Marxism] Fwd: Oil Price Fall: Saudi Arabi targets US Shale Oil, Iran, Iraq, Russia | Informed Comment

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The other big loser is Venezuela which has an even higher percentage that
Russia for it's budget.

Saudi's vote against cutting production had to do with trying to dry up oil
that is being fracked in the US and other countries. It does this by making
the profit margins fall to zero or negative. This results not in fracking
wells shutting down but in putting a halt investing in new ones.

Here's a quote from an energy observer just on tar sands (which includes
Venezuela and Canada):

There are two primary methods to move oil: by pipeline, which is cheap,
and by rail, which is expensive. That cost differential is make-or-break
for a tar sands business. The break-even price of tar sands oil is around
$100 per barrel if transported by rail, according to Anthony Swift, a staff
attorney at NRDC (which publishes *OnEarth*). Tar sands oil sells for $75
on a good day. So producers have to find a savings of $25 per barrel
somewhere in order to make it worth the investment.

Basically the Canadians are going to lose their shirts over the next 6
months. But that's tar sands. What about fracking?

Here in the U.S., the oil drilling boom is due largely to technologies
like hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, used to force oil from shale
formations deep underground. Producing this oil, Rystad figures, costs an
average of $62 a barrel.
--
http://www.npr.org/2014/11/04/361204786/falling-oil-prices-make-fracking-less-lucrative

So the aim of low priced oil benefits the cheaper producers and that's not
anywhere in N. America or Russia.

And this doesn't really have a thing to do with the now in-disrepute theory
of peak oil as it shows that the amount of oil (while having an absolute
limit by definition) available is *totally* dependent on price. Which is
true for every extractive commodity.

David
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Re: [Marxism] Stalinist-Trotskyist bromance

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On the relations of production...it was so much an emphasis on this that
confused people, rather it was placid: the Left Opposition wanted to see
the USSR industrialize as it was an increase in production and the forces
of production (Labor + capital investment) that could lay the basis for a
stronger collectivized economy, etc etc) which hitherto the country was not
doing despite the NEP. The LO wanted a 'balance' in production that
commodities could be traded, at least in kind, with the peasantry which
some sectors (Kulaks and others) had accumulated during NEP. The threat of
starvation of the cities was still there despite a generalized increase in
production in the countryside and this had to re resolved.

Stalin in his form of industrialization did so on steroids with an almost
exclusive focus on heavy industry. And in fact, it wasn't just some who
were confused, many Left Oppositionists went over to Stalin because they
thought, along with this new found 'revolutionary socialism right this
instant' under the Third Period analysis, thought that he had adopted the
LO program, if not in name, in effect. They were of course incorrect. (this
respresented the first wave of LOers capitulating to the Stalin faction).

Eugenics: Trotsky was fascinating with science as many Marxists were...in
fact Marxists generally were far more interested in science before the
1960s than afterward. So new theories that abounded were always taken
seriously and this was a true for Trotsky as for most intellectually
inclined communists. All this tied in with the need to increase the
productive forces so as to eventually create the material basis for
socialism (despite the current fad of 'anti-productivism' as excemplified
by writers like Chris Williams, such views run contrary to almost all of
Marxism at least historically). So science and technology were highly
emphasised in the new Soviet state and continued into the Stalinist
corruption of that state.

Trotsky in one article that Louis notes goes into the idea of humans
creating a 'new man'. Trotsky was no expert and was opining on the 'what
if?' as many a columnist does today outside of their own expertises. This
is no different. Read this in the essay Louis notes but here are the two
quotes from the article:


One-year, five-year, ten-year plans of business development; schemes for
national education; construction of new basic lines of transportation; the
transformation of the farms; the program for improving the technological
and cultural equipment of Latin America; a program for stratosphere
communication; eugenics – all of these will arouse controversy, vigorous
electoral struggle and passionate debate in the newspapers and at public
meetings.

and

While the romantic numskulls of Nazi Germany are dreaming of restoring the
old race of Europe’s Dark Forest to its original purity, or rather its
original filth, you Americans, after taking a firm grip on your economic
machinery and your culture, will apply genuine scientific methods to the
problem of eugenics. Within a century, out of your melting pot of races
there will come a new breed of men – the first worthy of the name of Man.

That's it. Now, there is another essay but I can't find it where he goes
into this a bit more.

Nuclear energy: the *entire* left was interested in nuclear power for
peaceful purposes. Both the Daily Worker, The Militant, New International,
Fourth International and Labor Action supported nuclear energy up until the
mid-1960s when the tie between nuclear energy and nuclear weapons appeared
to be locked at the hip. The first anti-nuclear stuff on the left didn't
deal with safety so much as over the question of the Bomb, but until then
the Bomb and energy were polemically separated in these articles and
counterpoised to each otherby the left (correctly IMO).

David
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[Marxism] Fwd: Tomgram: Pepe Escobar, New Silk Roads and an Alternate Eurasian Century | TomDispatch

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Whatever, no one ever pretended the BRICS had *anything* to do with social
justice. Neither did the seemingly dead Venezuelan and Bolivian trade and
investment pacts. It's about in the case of the TomDisptach article by
Escobar, about a counter-US imperialist economic policies and pacts
designed to extend China's influence outside of US influenced trade,
monetary and investment hegemony. One doesn't have to agree with the
implications of it (I don't) but one should understand where the
ultra-bonapartist regimes of China, Russia and now, maybe, India, are
taking their mostly capitalist economies in this 'EuroAsian' paradigm.

The description Escobar give about what the regimes perspectives are, are
very accurate, according to my following what is going on. Even the
international trade and investment moves by Brazil and Argentina are of
interest here. I doubt, though I might be wrong, that the idea of Germany
having a foot in both the Chinese initiatives and the Russian/Chinese ones
is a little on the far fetched side despite China becoming, as the article
put out, the German's largest trading partner. It's about investment, not
trade, really, and Escobar doesn't comment on that. Still, even 14 years
ago wondering around the streets of Guanghzou and Shenzhen German language
schools outnumbered English ones about 4 to 1.

Read the whole article...

David

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[Marxism] We kicked the ass of the ZIM/Zionist ship again! Ship NOT unloaded and ran...

[DW via Marxism]

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We had another successful labor/community picket line at the docks in
Oakland yesterday, covering 2 shifts: 5am (the one I was on) and 5pm (I was
sleeping :).

Local 10 refused to dispatch anyone to the docks to unload the ship and the
steadymen (a layer of ILWU members who can report directly to the owners
bypassing the hiring hall) were a bit pissed off but didn't cross the
picket line.

The people using ZIM ships (34% owned by the Israeli gov't) will get the
idea and start using other frieght carriers. Here is the Free Palestine
Movement take on this:

*Victory for picketers: Israeli ship quits Oakland, its cargo untouched*

Waving signs saying DON'T WORK ZIM and chanting Send the ship back to
sea until Palestine is free, demonstrators from around the San Francisco
Bay Area and as far away as Sacramento set up picket lines at the port of
Oakland, California that were 100% effective in preventing the giant *Zim
Shanghai* container ship from unloading and loading its cargo.  The ship
was essentially untouched from the time it docked at 5:16 a.m. on Saturday,
September 27, 2014 and left just after midnight on the same day.

The effort was in many ways a model of cooperation between Palestine
solidarity activists and the membership of the International Longshore and
Warehouse Union Local 10 and other members of the labor community.
Although neither community is unanimous in its views, attitudes or
approaches to such matters, they reached out to each other and listened.  A
significant number belong to both communities and acted as a bridge.
Despite some mistakes, good will went a long way in overcoming obstacles.

This is the second Israeli Zim ship in as many months to leave Oakland
without taking on cargo.  Unlike the Zim Shanghai however, the Zim Piraeus
managed through illegal practices to unload a small amount of its incoming
cargo. Nevertheless, most remained on board and became a costly burden at
subsequent stops.

Other actions have taken place in Long Beach, California, Seattle and
Tacoma, Washington and Vancouver, British Columbia.  More are anticipated
in Tampa, Florida, and another is scheduled in Oakland on October 25.  This
opens the possibility of a global movement to block Zim and other Israeli
ships.  The message of the organizers is that if Israel is going to deny
Gaza the right to receive ships and trade from its port, Israeli ships will
be denied the same right.

The Free Palestine Movement supports this movement.  It was one of a large
number of organizations that endorsed the action, and one of our
representatives is on the organizing and tactical committees.  Your
donations helped to support the expenses of the action, notably six
walkie-talkies and the signs that you will see in the photos, but also some
other expenses. With your continued help, we intend to make these financial
resources available to all groups participating in these actions.  For more
information, contact us directly.

Israel will be held accountable for its actions.

The Free Palestine Movement
https://freepalestinemovement.org/

To make a US tax exempt donation, go to:
https://freepalestinemovement.org/donate-2/




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[Marxism] The Resilience of Moderate Syrian Rebels

[DW via Marxism]

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I suggest readers of this list go to this link and download this small PDF.
What it argues contridicts many of those on this list that say the FSA and
other rebels don't receive US arms. In fact, they are receiving in
*effective quantities* TOW anti-tank missiles. These are sophisticated wire
guided anti-tank weapons that can destroy any tank in existence and
according the paper pointed to by Louis, the Rebels are getting training
from outside of Syria and coming back in and used to blow up Syrain gov't
armor (perhaps ISIS armor as well?). The authors are gushing at the support
they are reciving. These weapons have to be supplied by the US and training
no doubt takes place in Turkey under NATO oversight (that's an assumption
on my part). But the paper says this:

To ensure complete control over these weapons, donors are brought together
in the Military Operation Command (MOC)18 based in Turkey and Jordan, and
deal directly with the brigades of their choosing, bypassing the political
and military leadership of the opposition.

Of course the paper could be a pro-Assad hoax to show the rebels getting
US/EU support but I think not. Thanks Louis for posting this.

David

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[Marxism] What if FDR had declared war against both Hitler Stalin

[DW via Marxism]

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On the US informing the Syrian gov't.

Clay writes, cynically to say the least: The Obama administration was also
so kind as to give the Assad regime a /heads-up/ as to the coming attack.
ISIS also had plenty of time to fortify and reposition itself in
preparation for the US air campaign. In fact the only forces caught by
surprise were those that have been fighting both the Assad regime and ISIS.

Nonsense. Everyone knew it was coming (despite protestations that the US
would not hit ISIS in Syria) including the forces on the ground in Syria.
Duh...the US announced it over and over again. They wanted to attack ISIS
and other forces deemed attackable by the US without having their planes
painted by anti-air radar systems, of which the Syrian gov't has some of
the most sophisticated in the world along with the missiles to go with it.
If not, the US would have had to use it's anti-radiation air craft to take
these out first and that would entail attacking Syrian forces and thus, in
effect, bringing the Russians into the entire scenario.

As the US has no interest, at this time, to attack the government, it makes
perfect sense to warn the gov't there of the impending raid's exact timing.

DW

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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Iranian talks with Saudi Arabia may signal thaw in relations | World news | The Guardian

[DW via Marxism]

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Andy's point is well taken: in Bahrain (Andy and I both worked on Bahraini
oil workers solidarity 2 years ago or so) is that the Shia uprising was
in Bharain a workers uprising by their underground unions (which united all
workers regardless of religious beliefs). In this case you had a Shia
population run by a Sunni (and pro-Saudi) absolute monarchy.

DW

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Re: [Marxism] A comment on ISIS worth sharing

[DW via Marxism]

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The majority of leaders of ISIS (including al-Baghdadi) were imprisoned in
BOCA by Americans in Iraq, where they were brainwashed.  Really? In
another wise well argued essay, this sort of unsubstantiated conspiracy
theory stuff simply degrades the rest of the essay.

Basically the essay, while it is well argued, puts forward the 'theory'
being circulated by supporters of the Syrian rebellion, that ISIS was
invented on purpose by the U.S. This hardly helps clarify the issues at
hand.

David

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[Marxism] http://www.marxmail.org/msg123583.html

[DW via Marxism]

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OK...for those that find the photo of me I was NOT drunk at the demo! (Arm
around R. Schoenman).

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[Marxism] ZIM/Zionist Ship turned away last night AGAIN!

[DW via Marxism]

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On August 17th, 2014 Palestine was once again victorious in Oakland,
California. For the second day in a row the Bay Area community held off the
Israeli ZIM ship from unloading at the Port. Thousands of people rallied on
Saturday and successfully kept the ship at Bay on its regular scheduled
day. Today we got word that the ship had arrived and workers were being
called to unload it. Within 30 minutes we mobilized over 400 people back to
the Port. And we won!

Workers honored our picket and stood on the side of justice, as they
historically have. Oakland said no to Zionism and blocked the boat for an
entire weekend. This is the first time in history that this has happened.
Israeli apartheid is falling one port at a time!

Palestine will be free from the river to the sea. Long live international
solidarity and the struggle for liberation!


https://www.facebook.com/events/1447374682195857/permalink/1454759481457377/

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[Marxism] The Islamic State and ground-to-air missiles

[DW via Marxism]

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Louis appears wrong here. There were reports in 2013 of one or two MIGs
being brought down by MANPADs. Given that the Syrian gov't itself has them,
they were deployed with the troops stationed around Syria and many of these
forces went over to the Rebels, its almost impossible the Rebels of
whatever faction didn't have any of them.

Secondly, in the early stages of the war, the Rebels overran several Syrian
army location and no doubt seized some of these very portable, Russian or
Chinese made surface-to-air missiles.

Here is a NYT blog video of the Rebels taking out a Syrian helicopter
gunship:

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/27/videos-from-syria-appear-to-show-first-confirmed-hit-of-aircraft-by-surface-to-air-missile/?_php=true_type=blogs_r=0

Here is something from military.com that shows FSA fighters assembly what
appears to be a METIS SAM missile.

So this is nonsense and a lie that the Rebels don't have any MANPADs.

Now, having said that, they never had a lot. Many fighters didn't know how
to use them...these not like RPGs that one can simply point and shoot. It
requires training. And in fact few helicopters or jets have been brought
down. It's clear they are not regularly supplied with MANPADS (either SAM
to anti-armor types) and generally are not well armed in a *qualitative*
way that would make a difference.

Quite honestly, unless Stingers and METIS or Rafael anti-aircraft missiles
are supplied with CIA trainers, it's perhaps stupid to even advocate the
rebels acquire them. What they really need are heavy machine guns,
equivalent to the US .50 Brownings. These would shoot down and keep away
any helicopter dropping barrel bombs.

In fact, to show how unarmed and weak the Rebels forces are...the videos of
Syrian helicopters simply hovering over rebel held urban areas with only
small arms being fired at them shows that few if any *serious* arms are
getting to them.

But not having MANPADS? Please, be accurate, you only do your own advocacy
and defense of the Reblrs no good at all.

David

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Re: [Marxism] The Islamic State and ground-to-air missiles

[DW via Marxism]

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I think Jeff did a good job on parsing that out. The key point is that
while there were *some* MANPADS available and used by the rebels, there is
clearly no plan that has afforded them these surface-to-air missiles in a
number that would of allowed them to turn away Syrian government air forces.

What that kind of a plan would look like one only has to turn to the highly
successful CIA aided Afghan war against the USSR where such MANPADS, in
this case, Stinger missiles, played one of the most important factors in
driving the USSR out of Afghanistan. When I hear US aiding rebels, this
is what I think off.

For those that believe the US/Europe/NATO or it's proxies have aided the
rebels,... and there has been some (as one FSA commander interviewed on
national network news state yes we get aid, but nothing to make a
difference) what kind of aid do think it is that is flowing flowing into
Syria for them to use, and what kind? Clearly it's made ZERO difference. So
if it's a rat line then what exactly are these rats back packing over the
border with Turkey.

I want to know because I like military facts because it goes to
relationship of forces and is important politically.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Hiroshima

[DW via Marxism]

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The bomb wasn't dropped on Japan for 'racist' reasons. That the US was
racist and justified it's use in part for unstated racist reasons is partly
true; the idea that it did so as the main motivating factor shows a
misunderstanding of Imperialism. It would of used it on Berlin (or a
smaller city) if it the US/UK had one, say, after D-Day. The fact that the
US (and UK) is 'racist' doesn't really mean shit with regard to pounding an
enemy into the dirt. It didn't stop from killing *millions* of German
citizens in carpet bombing German cities with incendiaries (which is where
Curits LeMay go the idea from to do the same to Japanese cities).

How is using the a-bomb really that much different than burning to death
millions of civilians with convention means (especially as far more died
from the conventional means than the nuclear ones). I suspect the civilians
being incinerated really didn't care about the distinction.

The reason it used the A-Bomb in large part was to to stare down the USSR
bent on invading northern Japan, let the world know the new boss is in town
and to generally avoid further military actions like Operation Downfall
(assuming one buys into the controversial belief that an invasion of Japan
was imminent and the Japanese gov't was too divided to really offer
unconditional surrender terms).

By July 1st, over 1.5 million Red Army troops were transferred to the
Soviet Far East for such a conflict (along with destroying the Japanese
army in Manchuria, whiich it did handily). On other hand, it's likely the
invasion would of come off rather badly given the situation the Red Army
faced in such an invasion, which almost mirrored the problem with Germans
had with regards to the total lack of dedicated landing craft AND some of
the best and experienced Japanese troops were in Hokkaido waiting for the
Russians should they have chosen to launch such an invasion.

David

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Re: [Marxism] The need for a mass united front to oppose U.S. aid to Israel

[DW via Marxism]

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I don't agree. The very high percentage of Palestinians at least at West
Coast demonstrations shows what a failure all these actions have been as
related to the U.S. working class. It is a *bad thing* not a good thing
that the number of non-Arabs is only somewhat larger than the non-Arab make
up of these rallies (numbering in the few thousands for the last 2). It
means that beyond the left (Socialist groups, Jewish Voices for Peace,
others engaged in direct solidarity with Gazans) have either failed or
displayed zero interest in building a *real* united front.

The main issue is the attack on Gaza and the massacre by the IDF and
Zionist gov't there. This is because while the number of folks dying in
Syria and, even Iraq, is greater, perhaps, than in Gaza, the direct arm of
the U.S. support to Israel is so obvious in the latter. Make all the
connections you want but what will bring Americans out into the streets is
the direct U.S. support for what everyone is seeing on their television
screens at the moment.

One of the problems here, and this addresses Andy's point, is that many
groups ARE in fact letting Arab and Palestinian solidarity groups run the
show. This is a huge error. Exiles Palestinians, IMO, that *in the U.S.*
have of course ever right to do what they believe should be done to support
their brothers and sisters under repression in Gaza and the West Bank. But
they should not be running anything in terms of the slogans and demands
needed in building a united front that should be oriented toward the
population at large. That these communities should be incorporated into a
united front: yes, absolutely, but using them as a guide to how successful
a movement is would a huge mistake. I think, Andy, your focus is too
myopic, and not one geared to bringing in those that might not even have an
opinion on Syria, Iraq or even Zionism.

On the West Coast, the critical issue of an Israeli freight line bringing a
ship into the Port of Oakland every Saturday is now the focus of the Gaza
and BDS solidarity movement. But doing under the slogans of Free
Palestine or Long Live Palestine, let alone tying this to Syria (and
which side are you on isn't exactly agreed at this point) is hardly going
to bring out forces *beyond* the socialist left and the Arab community
*that already agree*. The only way any such successful actions have been
able to mobilize people to stop the Zionist ship in the past (2010) was to
reach out to the labor movement and get the longshoremen and truckers on
board. This will only happen with a very sharp focus on Gaza and the West
Bank and not on anything else. Grafting Syria or any other issue on this
will only result in blank stares.

I think Manuel is way off base here. It is not about only mobilizing these
particular communities, is about mobilizing all Americans against what our
gov't is doing. I think what Manual is suggesting is what is
counter-productive.

David Walters

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Re: [Marxism] Pollution and cancer

[DW via Marxism]

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An interesting, almost compelling review of Johnson's book:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/08/books/review/george-johnsons-cancer-chronicles.html?pagewanted=all_r=0

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Re: [Marxism] Israel is being defeated in Gaza as it was in Lebanon

[DW via Marxism]

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Well, Lüko,
this is not entirely accurate. There are some Irish and Puerto Rican's who
might disagree.

Secondly, it's a ridiculous statement anyway: that in the end the people
win. Wowso? We're supposed to sit back and wait? So far the
Palestinians have been fighting for almost 80 years (if we use the 1936
Uprising against the British as a starting date for Palestinian
nationalism). It doesn't look like the Zionist state is going anywhere
soon. I reject the idea that because it is perceived as inevitable that
the Crusader state will be overturned that someone this makes everything
ok...which is what you are implying. In fact nothing is inevitable. That
most, but not all such states have been is not a guide for future results,
at all.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Russian Military Intelligence poor record for truth telling

[DW via Marxism]

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Why should they even bother? I've already discredited those reports. Russia
showed graphics [not data] that had an Su-25 tracking MH17 at 10km. I've
already shown the Su-25 has a ceiling of 7km when it isn't carrying any
arms.

So? An Su-25 flying at 20,000 feet can quite easily shadow a passenger
liner flying at 33,000 ft. Why is his even a comment? Don't you know that
an Su-25 can be a 1,000 feet and shoot down a plane at 40,000 feet? It can
piggey back ground based phased-array radar to it's own upgraded weapons
system and shoot any variety of air-to-air missiles to take it out. It's a
flying BUK if you will. I think the Separatists shot it down but I can
see the Ukrainian gov't, that ALLOWED this plane to fly over a military
conflict zone, quite happy about the Russians shooting it down. The point
is the 'ceiling' is a wholly irrelevant point unless it was going to use
it's cannons to shoot it down.

David

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[Marxism] An arguement against the Su-25 shooting down an airline (or THE airliner in this case)

[DW via Marxism]

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http://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/can-the-su-25-intercept-and-shoot-down-a-777/

The guy who wrote this is a commercial air line pilot. He makes a very good
technical case why an Su-25 could, or likely wouldn't, shoot down the
plane. I don't agree with everything he writes but he makes a...better
case...here than anything else I've read on blogs.

David

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[Marxism] Better apology needed.....

[DW via Marxism]

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this is not about Clay. So I'm not going to comment on Clay but on the
issues.I don't want to debate here if Clay sounds like he's mimicking
everything that comes out Kiev or lines up with the State Dept. (and even
if he does or doesn't *I don't care*, it's not relevant). It's not relevant
to examining the issue of the downed airliner, in fact it's a fucking
distraction which is the unstated reason I apologized. 'nuff said.

DW

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Re: [Marxism] Israel is being defeated in Gaza as it was in Lebanon,

[DW via Marxism]

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I don't like articles like this. It give a false sense of 'victory' based
on a totally faulty, wishful-thinking analysis.

The author writes

  Israel has so far admitted to 25 dead soldiers in just four days of
ground operations. That’s a higher daily casualty rate than it suffered in
Lebanon.

  Had Netanyahu known that would be the price, he would not likely have
launched this foolish and criminal slaughter in Gaza.

This betrays a lack of understanding of Zionist gov't politics and the
reasons and...price...these gov'ts will pay to achieve what ever goal they
think is the target.

The target is, in fact, to punish the people of Gaza for tolerating Hamas.
It has nothing to do with wiping out Hamas, though that is for public,
mostly western, consumption. This is prat of the continual program to
suppress and Bantustand the whole of the Palestinian nation.

In fact 25 dead soldiers is irrelevant to local Israeli politics except
to the degree that they are paraded as martyrs. Yes, Israel uses the
'martyr' tactic as well.

To measure this as a success or failure based on the criteria laid out in
this article does one any good...least of the people of Gaza under Israeli
assault.


David

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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Ukraine government, Malaysia Airlines confirm passenger plane crash, at least 295 presumed dead (UPDATES, VIDEO)

[DW via Marxism]

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Clay is correct on this. Shoulder fired surface to air missiles (MANPADS),
such as the US produced Stinger missile made famous by the Afghan Mujahedin
during the Soviet occupation in the 1980s and others since are about
limited to about 15,000 feet combined altitude and range. The Malaysian
flight was flying at least at 30,000 feet so would be immune to these sorts
of weapons.

IF it's accurate that the separatists in the east got a hold of some of the
BUK missile systems, and it looked like they had ONE of these launchers
from their own video on the news last night, they reach out to 60,000 ft
with little problem.

However, it's also true that the Ukrainian gov't has many of these exact
same systems inherited from the Russians (and likely produce their own
version)  a they've been produced since around 1979 or so.

Also, however, the plan was flying from West to East directly heading from
Ukraine gov't territory to the eastern part of the country held by the
rebels and so could've looked like the older BUK radar (the system is an
integrated system with radar, on board radar tracking, missiles, launchers
and carriers) exactly like a Ukraine airforce bomber or military cargo
plane of the type they shot down with a similar system not long ago. Given
the fact that the gov't has been bombing the area, it's no surprise to me
of the rebels accidentally shot down the plane.

Lastly, why was a civilian air liner allowed to fly over a war zone. OKs
for flight path are given by the Kiev gov't. Why stupidly allowed them to
do this? When I flew to Athens in 1999 from Paris my flight was diverted
from flying over Yugoslavia to Greece and had to detour over southern Italy
instead. This would be fodder who think the Kiev gov't was setting up the
rebels to do just what they did.

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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Bolivia Passes Law To Allow 10-Year-Olds To Work

[DW via Marxism]

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 *Bolivia* lowers *child labor* age restriction
http://jurist.org/paperchase/2014/07/bolivia-lowers-child-labor-age-restriction.php
JURIST - ‎13 hours ago‎
 In recent years, *child labor laws* has become a growing subject of
international attention.The UN International Labor Organization (ILO) last
year [JURIST report] released a report on *child labor* [text, PDF; press
release] advocating social protections as the key ...
   *Bolivia* Passes *Law* To Allow 10-Year-Olds To Work
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/05/bolivia-child-labor_n_5559784.html
Huffington Post - ‎Jul 5, 2014‎
 The legislation otherwise lowers the *legal* working age to 12 — again, as
long the job does not interfere with the *child's* education. A regional
official with the U.N. International *Labor* Organization, Carmen Moreno,
says the legislation passed Wednesday night ...
   Germany criticizes *Bolivia's* lax *child labor law*
http://www.dw.de/germany-criticizes-bolivias-lax-child-labor-law/a-17758936
Deutsche Welle - ‎Jul 4, 2014‎
 A senior lawmaker from Angela Merkel's conservative Christian Democratic
party has called on *Bolivian* president Evo Morales not to sign into *law*
a measure allowing children to begin working at the age of 10. Politicians
cannot regard *child labor* as a ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/bolivia/10945253/Bolivia-sanctions-child-labour-as-young-as-10.html
 *Bolivia* sanctions *child labour* as young as 10
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/bolivia/10945253/Bolivia-sanctions-child-labour-as-young-as-10.html
Telegraph.co.uk - ‎Jul 3, 2014‎
 *Bolivian* lawmakers have approved *child workers* as young as 10 years
old, under a new *law* that lays out specific conditions for employing
children. Congress passed the measure by consensus on Wednesday, requiring
employers to follow certain criteria to ...
   *Bolivia* passes *child labour law*
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20140705/world/bolivia-passes-child-labour-law.526350
Times of Malta - ‎Jul 5, 2014‎
 *Bolivia's* Congress has passed legislation to allow *children* as young
age 10 to work as long as it does not interfere with their education and is
done independently to help the *child's* family make ends meet. The
legislation otherwise lowers the *legal* working ...
   New *Bolivia law* would allow 10-year-olds to work
http://www.komonews.com/news/national/New-Bolivia-law-would-allow-10-year-olds-to-work-265871061.html
KOMO News - ‎Jul 4, 2014‎
 But, I just know there are folks here in America looking to angle a *law*
such as this that will force those 25,000 illegal immigrant children in
Arizona into some kind of *child labor* camp. margo 5pts. I think it is a
good idea to let kids as young as 10 work. Â Kids ...
  Here are a bunch of news items on it.

http://time.com/2956219/bolivia-to-allow-children-to-legally-work-at-just-10-years-old/

*Bolivia* to Allow *Children* to Legally Work at Just 10 Years Old
http://time.com/2956219/bolivia-to-allow-children-to-legally-work-at-just-10-years-old/
TIME - ‎Jul 4, 2014‎
 While the minimum age for *child workers* was previously 14 with no
exceptions, the new bill is more flexible and allows children to start
“working for others from age 12, which is allowed by international
conventions, and self-employment from age 10,” said Senator Adolfo Mendoza,
co-sponsor of the bill, reports AFP. He emphasized that both the ...
Critics of the previous *law* argue that children younger than 14 years old
must work to help support their families in the impoverished South American
country. Deputy Javier ...

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bolivia-allows-10-year-olds-work-legally-reduce-poverty-1455380
 *Bolivia* Allows 10-Year-Olds to Work Legally to Reduce Poverty
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bolivia-allows-10-year-olds-work-legally-reduce-poverty-1455380
International Business Times UK - ‎Jul 4, 2014‎
 Children as young as ten can now legally work in *Bolivia* thanks to a
change in the *law* on *child labour*, which was signed in by President Evo
Morales in an attempt to reduce poverty in the country. A 1999 *law* in the
country set the minimum working age at 14.
   La Paz makes *child labour legal*
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/world-news/la-paz-makes-child-labour-legal.24682684
Herald Scotland - ‎Jul 5, 2014‎
 Carmen Moreno, of the UN International *Labour* Organisation, said the
*law* would make *Bolivia* the first country to make work by 10-year-olds
*legal* and called it worrisome in view of *Bolivia* having signed a UN
convention that sets 14 as the minimum age for ...

http://www.worldbulletin.net/world/140059/bolivia-to-allow-children-to-start-working-aged-10
 *Bolivia* to allow *children* to start working aged 10

[Marxism] Fwd: ISIS, Israel and a nuclear threat

[DW via Marxism]

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Lamb, should anyone doubt his affiliation to the regime in Syria, works as
a law professor at Syria's major law school.

I urge list members to read the article on counterpunch,
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/06/20/will-isis-create-al-sham-caliphate-liberate-palestine/

On several levels this piece of science-fiction/fantasy makes for the most
interesting read. Quite seriously. The purpose of the article is to reflect
the Syrian gov't attempt to 'scare the west' and look to the Damascus
regime as a potential foe and removing it from the list of countries where
regime change is favored by Washington. In this article you get:

1. That ISIS claims to have a nuclear weapon.
2. That the Zionist regime would crumble when faced with ISIS suicide
bombers and they could 'liberate' Palestine in 3 years.
3. Attacks Hezbollah for failing to liberate Palestine when it could of
done so after it chased Israel from Lebanon.

I'm amazed...though perhaps I shouldn't be...that Counterpunch runs this
stuff. The problem is that it's not even good propaganda, it's bad
propaganda along the lines of Larouche's organization. It is one thing to
run 'campist' material defending the regime in Damascus...that's a
*political* debate that is quite valid...but running this sort of
make-believe just lowers the discourse of the conversation.

David

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[Marxism] Fwd: ISIS, Israel and a nuclear threat (correction)

[DW via Marxism]

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Should read ...as a potential FRIEND...

david

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[Marxism] MIA back up

[DW via Marxism]

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The MIA is back up and working.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Fukushima’s Children are Dying » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Name

[DW via Marxism]

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So Louis, you missed my point on this, sort of. I think what is written in
this piece you provided is quite good and accurate as far as my own
dime-store understanding of the deterministic nature of various carcinogens
(I have the massive tome of The Politics of Cancer sitting on my table in
the living room as it happens. It's very daunting to even look at
it!)...yet they are, precisely carcinogens because we know they cause
cancer. How? How do we know? It's true, one can't do (nor would one want
too ethically) to conduct decades long double-blind studies trying to give
humans cancer. They do use animal studies (and why I oppose the movement to
ban animals from *this* sort of very needed research), especially for
hard-tumor RD and can look at cells as they metastasize (which is what I
meant by the 'mechanism').

No...the real way is the use of medical statistics using increases of
particular forms of cancer associated with, at least in the beginning, with
what we now know are carcinogens. Taking large and targeted sections of the
population looking for correlations that are specific to whatever
environmental (or internally ingested) substance that might give rise to a
blip, or cancer 'cluster' in a given population. Then test again, do more
studies, meta-studies and compare papers, etc etc. At a certain point it
becomes clear that a substance causes cancer. This was done, by the way,
with  tobacco and why all doctors and oncologists understood it caused
cancer. There was no doubt when it went to trial. Proving it *legally* was
altogether more difficult (obviously) as the lawyers wanted and demanded
specific medical causality between tobacco and lung cancer. It wasn't
enough that people who smoked got cancer in double-digit numbers greater
than non-smokers, they demanded something that can't be actually seen: how
tar and other ingredients did it's dirty work *within the cell itself*.
There are theories but no understanding of the specific mechanism in this
case. Still, people died from smoking and everyone...as in
anyone...understood this to be case even if at the molecular level it was
hard to determine as distinguished from other environmental inputs.

So...they found the one homogenous grouping that could prove this in a
purely statistical way without all the other class, ethnic, environmentally
differing inputs that could throw the stats off: the same group used in the
very first study that started to reveal the suspicions that tobacco kills:
the group if British doctors who all lived in London in the 1950s.
Establishing a fairly good control group of those that did not smoke and
those that did showed the sharp differences in rates lung cancer without a
doubt to even...the legal profession.

With radiation, as I noted, it is not about radiation but over the issue of
how one determines if radiation at low levels, above various background
levels, are detrimental to any ones health at all. This is not the same as
the issue of tobacco where it was quite clear from the onset of the initial
studies and at many different health levels (not just cancer but heart
disease, pulmonary problems such as asthma and emphysema, renal failures,
etc). With tobacco, the issue was a kind of binary divide: those that
smoked; those that didn't. With radiation, it's far more fickle, especially
at the low end of the background level we're talking about with both the
Chernobyl situation, the Fukushima accident and nuclear plants generally
combined with the fact we exist, indeed evolved, bathed in radiation.

So to compare the two as you do does a disservice to those who are trying
to parse out the import of low level radiation effects on humans (and
plants and other animals) and is hardly helpful.

The theory (and only regulatory guidelines) that purport to show or explain
that 'any amount of radiation is harmful' is based on the linear
non-threshold theory or LNT, which is the majority position held by those
that study radiation, through few, it seems, do so with much heart in the
discussions that have been taking place for a long time. The famous gold
stand BRIER VII report on radiation, while raising some questions about LNT
being useful for determining cancer rates, still argues that it is the only
theory by which regulations could be adapted. The wiki article has some
really good coverage on the LNT and has statements on both sides of the
debate. For example, the NYAS (the group that 'published the paper about a
million people dying from Chernobyl that it later distanced itself from)
does continue to support the LNT hypothesis. Other organizations do not.

The problem is that the Popular Science  journalism of Harvey Wasserman
is really a very poor source for the issues of whether the prediction by
the WHO 

Re: [Marxism] Fukushima’s Children are Dying » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

[DW via Marxism]

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Shane wrote:

The study was originally published in 2009. Now, more than four years
later, DW is unable (he would if he could, wouldn't he?) to cite a single
criticism (let alone refutation) of any of its facts or conclusions. Yet he
cites the absence of either endorsement or refutation by the NYAS as
justification for slandering it as junk and slandering Harvey Wasserman
as not merely rabid but most rabid!

Shane, look AT the NYAS page...the critical reviews are listed there. By
actual peers who do that kind of reviewing. I don't have to 'cite'
anything...the NYAS provides them. Wasserman slanders himself...I don't
really have to do very much to do more than that.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Fukushima’s Children are Dying » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

[DW via Marxism]

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Shane wrote:

The study was originally published in 2009. Now, more than four years
later, DW is unable (he would if he could, wouldn't he?) to cite a single
criticism (let alone refutation) of any of its facts or conclusions. Yet he
cites the absence of either endorsement or refutation by the NYAS as
justification for slandering it as junk and slandering Harvey Wasserman
as not merely rabid but most rabid!

Shane, look AT the NYAS page...the critical reviews are listed there. By
actual peers who do that kind of reviewing. I don't have to 'cite'
anything...the NYAS provides them. Wasserman slanders himself...I don't
really have to do very much to do more than that.

David

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