subject:"Re\: \[MBZ\] Help"

Re: [MBZ] Help

2023-11-09 Thread Craig via Mercedes

On Thu, 9 Nov 2023 16:14:13 + 87 300SDL via Mercedes
 wrote:

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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-28 Thread dan penoff.com via Mercedes

And to pile on, I honestly believe that a lot of places want to replace all of 
the EIS modules whenever one part has failed. Not necessary, as the replacement 
can be coded, locally or remotely. However, I do know of some dealers that 
won’t do it for anyone. Others do it for independent shops for a fee.

-D

> On Sep 28, 2023, at 2:43 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Exactly. If it needs new keys that tells me the keys are bad and maybe the 
> EIS is not working, but a new key should be programmable to match the 
> existing keys and the rest of the car.  The lock module gets told by the EIS 
> to unlock, and for the ECU to start the engine.  So now I am wondering if 
> there is a bad key(s) (which wouldn't be likely for both to be bad) or just 
> the EIS is not recognizing the existing keys.
> 
> " The key turns all the way in the ignition but there is zero response, no 
> clicks or sounds. "--> so this says that the key WILL turn so somehow the EIS 
> is recognizing it to allow it to turn, so the key is actually good and the 
> EIS is good.  If either is bad then they key won't turn in the slot.  Does 
> the instrument cluster come alive when the key is turned?  If the car is not 
> coming alive, but the key will physically turn (and here I'm assuming it is a 
> slot on the dash and the key is a fob), then I'm thinking a SAM or CANBUS 
> error or power issue is preventing the EIS from talking to everything else.  
> I had a similar problem on the CL500 when the power cable under the passenger 
> front floor was loose, the IC was dead as were windows, but the engine would 
> start and steering worked etc.
> 
> First I would dig into the whole thing with DAS/Xentry and see which nanny is 
> actually unhappy and if there are any CANBUS errors or events. Or bad power 
> at the modules in question, which would point to a relay or fuse driving the 
> circuits.  Maybe they did that and decided their recommended fix was best 
> (for them, not necessarily for the owner, and maybe they are just lazy or 
> ignorant).
> 
> Then check a good key, just pay for a third key programmed to the car, looks 
> like $235, that's quick and easy and in any case you would have a new key.  
> (But here if the key is turning, I am thinking the key is good)  If that 
> doesn't start it then put in an EIS and program it to the car and do a key 
> match with it (this can be done in Xentry easily in about 5min) and see if 
> that works. Labor on that should be maybe 1hr.  (And again, if the key 
> physically turns that suggest the EIS is OK?)  And if that doesn't work and 
> the lock module is still bad then I would think that it was the culprit all 
> along. This would be the best strategy given parts + labor on each step, the 
> lock module is going to be the killer with the labor.  But someone adept with 
> Xentry should be able to figure out exactly what the issue is and not shotgun 
> $3k worth of parts and labor at it. I have a hard time thinking that  keys 
> EIS and lock module all went bad at once, esp since the key will physically 
> turn.
> 
> --FT
> 
> On 9/28/23 2:08 PM, mitch--- via Mercedes wrote:
>> On 2023-09-28 13:36, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:
>>> So this makes me wonder what exactly might be wrong with it.
>> 
>> I look at the quote and think: Is it the ignition lock or the module that's 
>> bad?
>> And are you charging me for both because you don't want to strand me when 
>> the second one fails, or are you charging me for both because you don't know 
>> what failed?
>> 
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> -- 
> --FT
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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-28 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

> I have a hard time thinking that  keys EIS and lock module all went bad at 
> once, esp since the key will physically turn.

Of course they didn't.  The root cause is likely singular, and could be 
something as
simple as a bad connection or solder joint.  Somewhere.  _Finding_ it?  That's 
a whole
'nother can of worms.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-28 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes

Exactly. If it needs new keys that tells me the keys are bad and maybe 
the EIS is not working, but a new key should be programmable to match 
the existing keys and the rest of the car.  The lock module gets told by 
the EIS to unlock, and for the ECU to start the engine.  So now I am 
wondering if there is a bad key(s) (which wouldn't be likely for both to 
be bad) or just the EIS is not recognizing the existing keys.


" The key turns all the way in the ignition but there is zero response, no clicks or 
sounds. "--> so this says that the key WILL turn so somehow the EIS is recognizing 
it to allow it to turn, so the key is actually good and the EIS is good.  If either is bad 
then they key won't turn in the slot.  Does the instrument cluster come alive when the key 
is turned?  If the car is not coming alive, but the key will physically turn (and here I'm 
assuming it is a slot on the dash and the key is a fob), then I'm thinking a SAM or CANBUS 
error or power issue is preventing the EIS from talking to everything else.  I had a similar 
problem on the CL500 when the power cable under the passenger front floor was loose, the IC 
was dead as were windows, but the engine would start and steering worked etc.

First I would dig into the whole thing with DAS/Xentry and see which 
nanny is actually unhappy and if there are any CANBUS errors or events. 
Or bad power at the modules in question, which would point to a relay or 
fuse driving the circuits.  Maybe they did that and decided their 
recommended fix was best (for them, not necessarily for the owner, and 
maybe they are just lazy or ignorant).


Then check a good key, just pay for a third key programmed to the car, 
looks like $235, that's quick and easy and in any case you would have a 
new key.  (But here if the key is turning, I am thinking the key is 
good)  If that doesn't start it then put in an EIS and program it to the 
car and do a key match with it (this can be done in Xentry easily in 
about 5min) and see if that works. Labor on that should be maybe 1hr.  
(And again, if the key physically turns that suggest the EIS is OK?)  
And if that doesn't work and the lock module is still bad then I would 
think that it was the culprit all along. This would be the best strategy 
given parts + labor on each step, the lock module is going to be the 
killer with the labor.  But someone adept with Xentry should be able to 
figure out exactly what the issue is and not shotgun $3k worth of parts 
and labor at it. I have a hard time thinking that  keys EIS and lock 
module all went bad at once, esp since the key will physically turn.


--FT

On 9/28/23 2:08 PM, mitch--- via Mercedes wrote:

On 2023-09-28 13:36, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:

So this makes me wonder what exactly might be wrong with it.


I look at the quote and think: Is it the ignition lock or the module 
that's bad?
And are you charging me for both because you don't want to strand me 
when the second one fails, or are you charging me for both because you 
don't know what failed?


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--
--FT
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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-28 Thread mitch--- via Mercedes


On 2023-09-28 13:36, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:

So this makes me wonder what exactly might be wrong with it. 


I look at the quote and think: Is it the ignition lock or the module 
that's bad?
And are you charging me for both because you don't want to strand me 
when the second one fails, or are you charging me for both because you 
don't know what failed?


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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-28 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes

So this makes me wonder what exactly might be wrong with it. All these
modules talk to one another, if one is unhappy all the others are
unhappy. MB techs' solutions are to start throwing (expensive) parts at
a problem when the solution might be simpler as I learned in working
with my buddy on the ML63 AMG ISM problem. He is a whiz with the
electronics/software and was telling me he often finds the problems are
fairly simple given his knowledge, and that the local MB stealer often
sends him their "unfixable" software issues to deal with, and he fixes
them. Unless someone has this knowledge to dig into the details of
these modules (which are all little computers) then just throwing a part
at the problem is the easy but expensive way out. Guys who actually
know how to deal with the problems are very few and far between.

So this is the dilemma with these newer cars, they are a rolling
collection of electronic modules controlling everything. I think I
counted 47 or 49 different modules in the 09S550. It's a wonder they
actually work as well as they do. A 123 or 126 is basically a stone age
car compared to these things. This is why I was able to buy a 15yo $90k
car for $2500, basically a 97% depreciation from new, and fortunately
had this guy to fix it. Or a $400E500, or a $600E320. There are a huge
amount of these things on FBMP and CL. Fortunately you have the money
and inclination to spend $3k fixing this car, most people would probably
just take the hit and leave it sitting at the stealer to be sent to
Copart or wherever.

As time goes on almost all these cars will reach this point where unless
you have the knowledge and patience and inclination to deal with
computers and software, they will unfortunately become disposable
(s)crap. Not good for owners' pocketbooks, the environment, and
manufacturers' reputations. But maybe good for some of us who are
willing and able to resurrect them.

Good luck with the repairs.

--FT

On 9/28/23 9:53 AM, Michael Esh via Mercedes wrote:

Update. Repair estimate at Mercedes Dealer
$2850.00. Not sure pdf of estimate will send but the repair looks fairly
complicated. I’m splitting the cost of repair with my son.
Issue is locked steering wheel and no crank /start.
Steering Lock Module - $505
Ignition Switch- $735
Program 2 keys - $270
Labor - $1224
Involves removing entire steering column.
This really makes me appreciate my W123’s

https://pdf.asrpro.com/PDF/?q=nOGDsjbVny7m5euCJZTmMy907WkLOEoVh67GRtBaRuuyh%40mKq%40XKixdUKXwzaLG44dO%402LLkw0oycuedP8ic%2fFaVtBmtgMmH2M0DuS1b6sb0aP%40amsd7UQ6SS4GKxHUVGzEzhbNdioec2ucZ124LSBnEi1f3SOr%40U%2fg8slYK2hA4s7f1K0e88CzF6ANHjgJ9hQW3CPRP4jxfKcP%2fuAs%40ycLhHgKBkDASrlM%2fJUlWH1nAlUHoqwRgRiiH0evcbXFl%2fTwL32du3gmkaPMBphaIZ73zBx30YTltf5yYD%2ftJJhjUfk%40eho4K%408d1g8oM9%406%2fvDP1l7ePAukjEqAx1Df%2fPZ%2fLvAgYARRSg5r9aKjG97UQ6ybplK7tKg%3d%3d

Michael E. Esh

On Sep 24, 2023, at 1:55 PM, Michael Esh wrote:

Jumpstart did not help. From watching some vids it appears to be an ELS
(electric steering lock) issue. It seems to be in locked position and
according to vids it is a $2000 repair from Mercedes. I’ll call dealership in
the morning.

Michael E. Esh

On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:27 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes
wrote:

The first thought is the battery. EIS likely locks the steering column with a
solenoid, so no power, no unlock. The battery could have enough juice to run
the radio but not the rest of the car. Once voltage falls below a certain point
stuff either gets wonky or just doesn’t work.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

-D

On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:23 PM, Michael Esh via Mercedes
wrote:

Fairly new to us 2013 Mercedes C300. Son purchased a couple of months ago.
About 150,000 miles on it.
Not sure why but it will not turn over. He parked it at the mall and when he
came out it would not fire up. Steering wheel is in lock position and turned
to the far right and does not unlock when key is turned. Is the steering lock
supposed to release with key or when the car starts? The key turns all the way
in the ignition but there is zero response, no clicks or sounds. The battery
seems to be working as the radio works normally.
Any thoughts about what we might check or trouble shoot before we call the tow
truck?
Thanks, Mike

Michael E. Esh

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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-28 Thread David Bruckmann via Mercedes

I have direct experience, and yes it can be a nightmare.

Putting aside the question of whether any of these modules are so-called
"theft relevant" parts (which MB might be unwilling to sell to mere
mortals), there is the advantage that this would just be labour, not
jackhammering like earlier cars when the ignition lock decides to fail.

I still cannot believe how lucky I was that when the column lock (not the
lock cylinder... the actual column lock) failed on my 1979 300SD W116 in
110F heat on the square in Sonoma, CA, an hour from home.

We had been driving and stopped for ice cream. Got back into the car and I
could not turn the key to "on". By some miracle I was able to turn it *barely
*far enough to unlock the column so that the car could be driven. But how
to start it? Ah, a quick jumping of the starter solenoid did the trick.
Because the key could not be turned to "on", we had no turn signals, no
alternator, no ventilation. Luckily we had left the windows down, which was
a lifesaver during the sweltering 1+ hour drive home!

Then came the gruesome project of extricating the column lock without being
able to remove the lock cylinder! Again, by pure luck, the key turned JUST
far enough to disengage the anti-theft device that prevents removal of the
column lock. Mine was also not the later type (eg W124, later W126) where
unless the key is in the "on" position, you cannot disconnect the
electrical components at the back of the column lock.

The whole thing took about a day to R but in the end, successful! Out of
an abundance of caution, I ordered a replacement ignition lock cylinder
(originals are NLA and the "service" cylinders are slightly different and
need adapting to be installed), and in the end it worked out. I've saved
the functional original lock cylinder in case I ever want to put it back. I
might one day get around to refurbishing it. It's a relatively simple
system inside.

D.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2023, Allan Streib wrote:

>
> A W123 can get you into a pretty pickle as well if the lock cylinder jams.
> Very difficult to drill out or remove in other ways if you can't turn it.
> Or so I'm told, no direct experience.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023, at 08:53, Michael Esh via Mercedes wrote:
> > Update. Repair estimate at Mercedes Dealer
> > $2850.00. Not sure pdf of estimate will send but the repair looks
> > fairly complicated. I?m splitting the cost of repair with my son.
> > Issue is locked steering wheel and no crank /start.
> > Steering Lock Module - $505
> > Ignition Switch- $735
> > Program 2 keys - $270
> > Labor - $1224
> > Involves removing entire steering column.
> > This really makes me appreciate my W123?s
> >
> >
> > Michael E. Esh
> >
> >
> >> On Sep 24, 2023, at 1:55 PM, Michael Esh  wrote:
> >>
> >> ?Jumpstart did not help.  From watching some vids it appears to be an
> ELS (electric steering lock) issue.  It seems to be in locked position and
> according to vids it is a $2000 repair from Mercedes.  I?ll call dealership
> in the morning.
> >>
> >>
> >> Michael E. Esh
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:27 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?The first thought is the battery. EIS likely locks the steering
> column with a solenoid, so no power, no unlock. The battery could have
> enough juice to run the radio but not the rest of the car. Once voltage
> falls below a certain point stuff either gets wonky or just doesn?t work.
> >>>
> >>> Good luck, let us know how it goes.
> >>>
> >>> -D
> >>>
> > On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:23?PM, Michael Esh via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>  Fairly new to us 2013 Mercedes C300.  Son purchased a couple of
> months ago.  About 150,000 miles on it.
>  Not sure why but it will not turn over.  He parked it at the mall and
> when he came out it would not fire up.  Steering wheel is in lock position
> and turned to the far right and does not unlock when key is turned.  Is the
> steering lock supposed to release with key or when the car starts?  The key
> turns all the way in the ignition but there is zero response, no clicks or
> sounds.   The battery seems to be working as the radio works normally.
>  Any thoughts about what we might check or trouble shoot before we
> call the tow truck?
>  Thanks, Mike
> 
> 
>  Michael E. Esh
> 
> **
>
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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-28 Thread dan penoff.com via Mercedes

You have to get out your vibrating multitool and tape it to the key. It will 
eventually shake the cylinder into compliance, or so I’ve heard.

Whenever I get a “new to me” car I always buy new keys. If it’s something like 
a W124 or W123 I’ll buy a new ignition lock cylinder as well, which includes a 
new key. It’s often cheaper than buying the individual parts.

-D

> On Sep 28, 2023, at 12:21 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> A W123 can get you into a pretty pickle as well if the lock cylinder jams. 
> Very difficult to drill out or remove in other ways if you can't turn it. Or 
> so I'm told, no direct experience.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023, at 08:53, Michael Esh via Mercedes wrote:
>> Update. Repair estimate at Mercedes Dealer
>> $2850.00. Not sure pdf of estimate will send but the repair looks 
>> fairly complicated. I’m splitting the cost of repair with my son. 
>> Issue is locked steering wheel and no crank /start.  
>> Steering Lock Module - $505
>> Ignition Switch- $735
>> Program 2 keys - $270
>> Labor - $1224
>> Involves removing entire steering column. 
>> This really makes me appreciate my W123’s
>> 
>> 
>> https://pdf.asrpro.com/PDF/?q=nOGDsjbVny7m5euCJZTmMy907WkLOEoVh67GRtBaRuuyh%40mKq%40XKixdUKXwzaLG44dO%402LLkw0oycuedP8ic%2fFaVtBmtgMmH2M0DuS1b6sb0aP%40amsd7UQ6SS4GKxHUVGzEzhbNdioec2ucZ124LSBnEi1f3SOr%40U%2fg8slYK2hA4s7f1K0e88CzF6ANHjgJ9hQW3CPRP4jxfKcP%2fuAs%40ycLhHgKBkDASrlM%2fJUlWH1nAlUHoqwRgRiiH0evcbXFl%2fTwL32du3gmkaPMBphaIZ73zBx30YTltf5yYD%2ftJJhjUfk%40eho4K%408d1g8oM9%406%2fvDP1l7ePAukjEqAx1Df%2fPZ%2fLvAgYARRSg5r9aKjG97UQ6ybplK7tKg%3d%3d
>> 
>> Michael E. Esh
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 24, 2023, at 1:55 PM, Michael Esh  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jumpstart did not help.  From watching some vids it appears to be an ELS 
>>> (electric steering lock) issue.  It seems to be in locked position and 
>>> according to vids it is a $2000 repair from Mercedes.  I’ll call dealership 
>>> in the morning.  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Michael E. Esh
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:27 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 The first thought is the battery. EIS likely locks the steering column 
 with a solenoid, so no power, no unlock. The battery could have enough 
 juice to run the radio but not the rest of the car. Once voltage falls 
 below a certain point stuff either gets wonky or just doesn’t work.
 
 Good luck, let us know how it goes.
 
 -D
 
>> On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:23 PM, Michael Esh via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
> 
> Fairly new to us 2013 Mercedes C300.  Son purchased a couple of months 
> ago.  About 150,000 miles on it. 
> Not sure why but it will not turn over.  He parked it at the mall and 
> when he came out it would not fire up.  Steering wheel is in lock 
> position and turned to the far right and does not unlock when key is 
> turned.  Is the steering lock supposed to release with key or when the 
> car starts?  The key turns all the way in the ignition but there is zero 
> response, no clicks or sounds.   The battery seems to be working as the 
> radio works normally. 
> Any thoughts about what we might check or trouble shoot before we call 
> the tow truck?
> Thanks, Mike
> 
> 
> Michael E. Esh
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-28 Thread Allan Streib via Mercedes

A W123 can get you into a pretty pickle as well if the lock cylinder jams. Very 
difficult to drill out or remove in other ways if you can't turn it. Or so I'm 
told, no direct experience.


On Thu, Sep 28, 2023, at 08:53, Michael Esh via Mercedes wrote:
> Update. Repair estimate at Mercedes Dealer
> $2850.00. Not sure pdf of estimate will send but the repair looks 
> fairly complicated. I’m splitting the cost of repair with my son. 
> Issue is locked steering wheel and no crank /start.  
> Steering Lock Module - $505
> Ignition Switch- $735
> Program 2 keys - $270
> Labor - $1224
> Involves removing entire steering column. 
> This really makes me appreciate my W123’s
>
>
> https://pdf.asrpro.com/PDF/?q=nOGDsjbVny7m5euCJZTmMy907WkLOEoVh67GRtBaRuuyh%40mKq%40XKixdUKXwzaLG44dO%402LLkw0oycuedP8ic%2fFaVtBmtgMmH2M0DuS1b6sb0aP%40amsd7UQ6SS4GKxHUVGzEzhbNdioec2ucZ124LSBnEi1f3SOr%40U%2fg8slYK2hA4s7f1K0e88CzF6ANHjgJ9hQW3CPRP4jxfKcP%2fuAs%40ycLhHgKBkDASrlM%2fJUlWH1nAlUHoqwRgRiiH0evcbXFl%2fTwL32du3gmkaPMBphaIZ73zBx30YTltf5yYD%2ftJJhjUfk%40eho4K%408d1g8oM9%406%2fvDP1l7ePAukjEqAx1Df%2fPZ%2fLvAgYARRSg5r9aKjG97UQ6ybplK7tKg%3d%3d
>
> Michael E. Esh
>
>
>> On Sep 24, 2023, at 1:55 PM, Michael Esh  wrote:
>> 
>> Jumpstart did not help.  From watching some vids it appears to be an ELS 
>> (electric steering lock) issue.  It seems to be in locked position and 
>> according to vids it is a $2000 repair from Mercedes.  I’ll call dealership 
>> in the morning.  
>> 
>> 
>> Michael E. Esh
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:27 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The first thought is the battery. EIS likely locks the steering column 
>>> with a solenoid, so no power, no unlock. The battery could have enough 
>>> juice to run the radio but not the rest of the car. Once voltage falls 
>>> below a certain point stuff either gets wonky or just doesn’t work.
>>> 
>>> Good luck, let us know how it goes.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
> On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:23 PM, Michael Esh via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
 
 Fairly new to us 2013 Mercedes C300.  Son purchased a couple of months 
 ago.  About 150,000 miles on it. 
 Not sure why but it will not turn over.  He parked it at the mall and when 
 he came out it would not fire up.  Steering wheel is in lock position and 
 turned to the far right and does not unlock when key is turned.  Is the 
 steering lock supposed to release with key or when the car starts?  The 
 key turns all the way in the ignition but there is zero response, no 
 clicks or sounds.   The battery seems to be working as the radio works 
 normally. 
 Any thoughts about what we might check or trouble shoot before we call the 
 tow truck?
 Thanks, Mike
 
 
 Michael E. Esh
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-28 Thread Rick Knoble via Mercedes

And that folks, is why it pays to buy tools and do it yourself (if you enjoy 
fixing things).


Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: September 28, 2023 10:02 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: buggeredbenzm...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

wow.

--FT

On 9/28/23 9:53 AM, Michael Esh via Mercedes wrote:
> Update. Repair estimate at Mercedes Dealer
> $2850.00. Not sure pdf of estimate will send but the repair looks fairly 
> complicated. I’m splitting the cost of repair with my son.
> Issue is locked steering wheel and no crank /start.
> Steering Lock Module - $505
> Ignition Switch- $735
> Program 2 keys - $270
> Labor - $1224
> Involves removing entire steering column.
> This really makes me appreciate my W123’s
>
>
> https://pdf.asrpro.com/PDF/?q=nOGDsjbVny7m5euCJZTmMy907WkLOEoVh67GRtBaRuuyh%40mKq%40XKixdUKXwzaLG44dO%402LLkw0oycuedP8ic%2fFaVtBmtgMmH2M0DuS1b6sb0aP%40amsd7UQ6SS4GKxHUVGzEzhbNdioec2ucZ124LSBnEi1f3SOr%40U%2fg8slYK2hA4s7f1K0e88CzF6ANHjgJ9hQW3CPRP4jxfKcP%2fuAs%40ycLhHgKBkDASrlM%2fJUlWH1nAlUHoqwRgRiiH0evcbXFl%2fTwL32du3gmkaPMBphaIZ73zBx30YTltf5yYD%2ftJJhjUfk%40eho4K%408d1g8oM9%406%2fvDP1l7ePAukjEqAx1Df%2fPZ%2fLvAgYARRSg5r9aKjG97UQ6ybplK7tKg%3d%3d
>
> Michael E. Esh
>
>
>> On Sep 24, 2023, at 1:55 PM, Michael Esh  wrote:
>>
>> Jumpstart did not help.  From watching some vids it appears to be an ELS 
>> (electric steering lock) issue.  It seems to be in locked position and 
>> according to vids it is a $2000 repair from Mercedes.  I’ll call dealership 
>> in the morning.
>>
>>
>> Michael E. Esh
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:27 PM, dan penoff.com via 
>>> Mercedes  wrote:
>>>
>>> The first thought is the battery. EIS likely locks the steering column 
>>> with a solenoid, so no power, no unlock. The battery could have enough 
>>> juice to run the radio but not the rest of the car. Once voltage falls 
>>> below a certain point stuff either gets wonky or just doesn’t work.
>>>
>>> Good luck, let us know how it goes.
>>>
>>> -D
>>>
>>>>> On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:23 PM, Michael Esh via 
>>>>> Mercedes  wrote:
>>>> Fairly new to us 2013 Mercedes C300.  Son purchased a couple of months 
>>>> ago.  About 150,000 miles on it.
>>>> Not sure why but it will not turn over.  He parked it at the mall and when 
>>>> he came out it would not fire up.  Steering wheel is in lock position and 
>>>> turned to the far right and does not unlock when key is turned.  Is the 
>>>> steering lock supposed to release with key or when the car starts?  The 
>>>> key turns all the way in the ignition but there is zero response, no 
>>>> clicks or sounds.   The battery seems to be working as the radio works 
>>>> normally.
>>>> Any thoughts about what we might check or trouble shoot before we call the 
>>>> tow truck?
>>>> Thanks, Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael E. Esh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>>
>>>> To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>>
>>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>
>>> To search list archiveshttp://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
--
--FT
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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-28 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes

wow.

--FT

On 9/28/23 9:53 AM, Michael Esh via Mercedes wrote:

Michael E. Esh

On Sep 24, 2023, at 1:55 PM, Michael Esh wrote:

Michael E. Esh

On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:27 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes
wrote:

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

-D

On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:23 PM, Michael Esh via Mercedes
wrote:

Michael E. Esh

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--
--FT
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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-28 Thread Michael Esh via Mercedes

Update. Repair estimate at Mercedes Dealer
$2850.00. Not sure pdf of estimate will send but the repair looks fairly 
complicated. I’m splitting the cost of repair with my son. 
Issue is locked steering wheel and no crank /start.  
Steering Lock Module - $505
Ignition Switch- $735
Program 2 keys - $270
Labor - $1224
Involves removing entire steering column. 
This really makes me appreciate my W123’s


https://pdf.asrpro.com/PDF/?q=nOGDsjbVny7m5euCJZTmMy907WkLOEoVh67GRtBaRuuyh%40mKq%40XKixdUKXwzaLG44dO%402LLkw0oycuedP8ic%2fFaVtBmtgMmH2M0DuS1b6sb0aP%40amsd7UQ6SS4GKxHUVGzEzhbNdioec2ucZ124LSBnEi1f3SOr%40U%2fg8slYK2hA4s7f1K0e88CzF6ANHjgJ9hQW3CPRP4jxfKcP%2fuAs%40ycLhHgKBkDASrlM%2fJUlWH1nAlUHoqwRgRiiH0evcbXFl%2fTwL32du3gmkaPMBphaIZ73zBx30YTltf5yYD%2ftJJhjUfk%40eho4K%408d1g8oM9%406%2fvDP1l7ePAukjEqAx1Df%2fPZ%2fLvAgYARRSg5r9aKjG97UQ6ybplK7tKg%3d%3d

Michael E. Esh


> On Sep 24, 2023, at 1:55 PM, Michael Esh  wrote:
> 
> Jumpstart did not help.  From watching some vids it appears to be an ELS 
> (electric steering lock) issue.  It seems to be in locked position and 
> according to vids it is a $2000 repair from Mercedes.  I’ll call dealership 
> in the morning.  
> 
> 
> Michael E. Esh
> 
> 
>> On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:27 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> The first thought is the battery. EIS likely locks the steering column with 
>> a solenoid, so no power, no unlock. The battery could have enough juice to 
>> run the radio but not the rest of the car. Once voltage falls below a 
>> certain point stuff either gets wonky or just doesn’t work.
>> 
>> Good luck, let us know how it goes.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
 On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:23 PM, Michael Esh via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Fairly new to us 2013 Mercedes C300.  Son purchased a couple of months ago. 
>>>  About 150,000 miles on it. 
>>> Not sure why but it will not turn over.  He parked it at the mall and when 
>>> he came out it would not fire up.  Steering wheel is in lock position and 
>>> turned to the far right and does not unlock when key is turned.  Is the 
>>> steering lock supposed to release with key or when the car starts?  The key 
>>> turns all the way in the ignition but there is zero response, no clicks or 
>>> sounds.   The battery seems to be working as the radio works normally. 
>>> Any thoughts about what we might check or trouble shoot before we call the 
>>> tow truck?
>>> Thanks, Mike
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Michael E. Esh
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-24 Thread Michael Esh via Mercedes

Jumpstart did not help.  From watching some vids it appears to be an ELS 
(electric steering lock) issue.  It seems to be in locked position and 
according to vids it is a $2000 repair from Mercedes.  I’ll call dealership in 
the morning.  


Michael E. Esh


> On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:27 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The first thought is the battery. EIS likely locks the steering column with 
> a solenoid, so no power, no unlock. The battery could have enough juice to 
> run the radio but not the rest of the car. Once voltage falls below a certain 
> point stuff either gets wonky or just doesn’t work.
> 
> Good luck, let us know how it goes.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:23 PM, Michael Esh via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Fairly new to us 2013 Mercedes C300.  Son purchased a couple of months ago.  
>> About 150,000 miles on it. 
>> Not sure why but it will not turn over.  He parked it at the mall and when 
>> he came out it would not fire up.  Steering wheel is in lock position and 
>> turned to the far right and does not unlock when key is turned.  Is the 
>> steering lock supposed to release with key or when the car starts?  The key 
>> turns all the way in the ignition but there is zero response, no clicks or 
>> sounds.   The battery seems to be working as the radio works normally. 
>> Any thoughts about what we might check or trouble shoot before we call the 
>> tow truck?
>> Thanks, Mike
>> 
>> 
>> Michael E. Esh
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-24 Thread mitch--- via Mercedes


Just don't reverse the cables.
Positive to positive, then check and double check that the unjumped 
terminals are both negative before jumping them too.


On 2023-09-24 10:53, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:

Should be ok




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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-24 Thread Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes

Should be ok

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:48 AM, Michael Esh via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I’m heading back to the vehicle today(30 miles) Can these car be jumped with 
> another vehicle without damaging electronics? My newest vehicle before buying 
> this one is my 85 300D. 
> Thanks. 
> 
> Michael E. Esh
> 
> 
>> On Sep 23, 2023, at 9:54 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes main battery is the first thing to check. These newer cars are 
>> EXTREMELY sensitive to battery voltage. Next (or maybe first since it’s 
>> easy) thing is check the key battery. 
>> 
>> --FT
>> Sent from iFōn
>> 
 On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:27 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The first thought is the battery. EIS likely locks the steering column 
>>> with a solenoid, so no power, no unlock. The battery could have enough 
>>> juice to run the radio but not the rest of the car. Once voltage falls 
>>> below a certain point stuff either gets wonky or just doesn’t work.
>>> 
>>> Good luck, let us know how it goes.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
> On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:23 PM, Michael Esh via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
 
 Fairly new to us 2013 Mercedes C300.  Son purchased a couple of months 
 ago.  About 150,000 miles on it. 
 Not sure why but it will not turn over.  He parked it at the mall and when 
 he came out it would not fire up.  Steering wheel is in lock position and 
 turned to the far right and does not unlock when key is turned.  Is the 
 steering lock supposed to release with key or when the car starts?  The 
 key turns all the way in the ignition but there is zero response, no 
 clicks or sounds.   The battery seems to be working as the radio works 
 normally. 
 Any thoughts about what we might check or trouble shoot before we call the 
 tow truck?
 Thanks, Mike
 
 
 Michael E. Esh
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-24 Thread Michael Esh via Mercedes

I’m heading back to the vehicle today(30 miles) Can these car be jumped with 
another vehicle without damaging electronics? My newest vehicle before buying 
this one is my 85 300D. 
Thanks. 

Michael E. Esh


> On Sep 23, 2023, at 9:54 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes main battery is the first thing to check. These newer cars are EXTREMELY 
> sensitive to battery voltage. Next (or maybe first since it’s easy) thing is 
> check the key battery. 
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iFōn
> 
>> On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:27 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> The first thought is the battery. EIS likely locks the steering column with 
>> a solenoid, so no power, no unlock. The battery could have enough juice to 
>> run the radio but not the rest of the car. Once voltage falls below a 
>> certain point stuff either gets wonky or just doesn’t work.
>> 
>> Good luck, let us know how it goes.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
 On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:23 PM, Michael Esh via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Fairly new to us 2013 Mercedes C300.  Son purchased a couple of months ago. 
>>>  About 150,000 miles on it. 
>>> Not sure why but it will not turn over.  He parked it at the mall and when 
>>> he came out it would not fire up.  Steering wheel is in lock position and 
>>> turned to the far right and does not unlock when key is turned.  Is the 
>>> steering lock supposed to release with key or when the car starts?  The key 
>>> turns all the way in the ignition but there is zero response, no clicks or 
>>> sounds.   The battery seems to be working as the radio works normally. 
>>> Any thoughts about what we might check or trouble shoot before we call the 
>>> tow truck?
>>> Thanks, Mike
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Michael E. Esh
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-23 Thread Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes

Yes main battery is the first thing to check. These newer cars are EXTREMELY 
sensitive to battery voltage. Next (or maybe first since it’s easy) thing is 
check the key battery. 

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:27 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The first thought is the battery. EIS likely locks the steering column with 
> a solenoid, so no power, no unlock. The battery could have enough juice to 
> run the radio but not the rest of the car. Once voltage falls below a certain 
> point stuff either gets wonky or just doesn’t work.
> 
> Good luck, let us know how it goes.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:23 PM, Michael Esh via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Fairly new to us 2013 Mercedes C300.  Son purchased a couple of months ago.  
>> About 150,000 miles on it. 
>> Not sure why but it will not turn over.  He parked it at the mall and when 
>> he came out it would not fire up.  Steering wheel is in lock position and 
>> turned to the far right and does not unlock when key is turned.  Is the 
>> steering lock supposed to release with key or when the car starts?  The key 
>> turns all the way in the ignition but there is zero response, no clicks or 
>> sounds.   The battery seems to be working as the radio works normally. 
>> Any thoughts about what we might check or trouble shoot before we call the 
>> tow truck?
>> Thanks, Mike
>> 
>> 
>> Michael E. Esh
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Help - WDDGF8AB2DR288607 2013 Mercedes C300

2023-09-23 Thread dan penoff.com via Mercedes

The first thought is the battery. EIS likely locks the steering column with a 
solenoid, so no power, no unlock. The battery could have enough juice to run 
the radio but not the rest of the car. Once voltage falls below a certain point 
stuff either gets wonky or just doesn’t work.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

-D

> On Sep 23, 2023, at 6:23 PM, Michael Esh via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Fairly new to us 2013 Mercedes C300.  Son purchased a couple of months ago.  
> About 150,000 miles on it. 
> Not sure why but it will not turn over.  He parked it at the mall and when he 
> came out it would not fire up.  Steering wheel is in lock position and turned 
> to the far right and does not unlock when key is turned.  Is the steering 
> lock supposed to release with key or when the car starts?  The key turns all 
> the way in the ignition but there is zero response, no clicks or sounds.   
> The battery seems to be working as the radio works normally. 
> Any thoughts about what we might check or trouble shoot before we call the 
> tow truck?
> Thanks, Mike
> 
> 
> Michael E. Esh
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] HELP I need to get set up to bid on this!!!!

2019-06-07 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes

https://www.iaai.com/Broker/BrokerSearch

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!!!

2019-03-31 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

> What went wrong?!

Engine must be running to fill beyond 50% (?) point.
Pretty much true of all automatic transmissions.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] HELP!!!

2019-03-30 Thread Clay Monroe via Mercedes

over much fluid if you did not drain the TC?  Pan gasket failure?


clay monroe

> I turned my computer upside down and shook it, but the bookmark for what I'm 
> looking for didn't fall out.



> On Mar 30, 2019, at 6:32 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> I put in the sixth quart of ATF into the transmission on our '93 E300D
> just before dinner. After dinner, I went out into the Big Room to check
> on something and discovered a huge pool of ATF underneath and flowing out
> from under the car.
> 
> What went wrong?!

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!!!

2019-03-30 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes

Pour a pint on the same floor and see how far it spreads in the same 
time.  Or, start a drip and measure how much is gone when the puddle 
equals the same size as your car's puddle.    A pint of ATF goes a LONG way!


7-8 nm   Translation: barely snug.

Craig via Mercedes wrote on 3/30/19 11:20 PM:

On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 22:48:09 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
 wrote:


Probably lost only a pint or so.  pretty small puddle.  Out the vent?

Pretty small puddle?!!! I used up all the cat litter I have for putting
on spills ...


Anyway, I FINALLY found the torque spec for the transmission pan bolts.


Under Section 00 in the PDF of 2702, it says,

Torque specificationsNm

Drain plug, torque converter 14
Drain plug, oil pan (transmission 722.3, 722.4, 722.5)   14
Bolts, oil pan   transmission 722.0, 722.17
Bolts, oil pan   transmission 722.3, 722.4, 722.5 8


 7 Nm  5.2 ft-lbf  62 in-lbf

 8 Nm  5.9 ft-lbf  71 in-lbf

14 Nm 10.3 ft-lbf 124 in-lbf



Craig

P.S. I can send   Auto.Trans-Fluid+Fiter.Change.2702.pdf
   Auto.Trans-Check+Correct.Fl.Lvl-2710.pdf

  offlist if you'd like.

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!!!

2019-03-30 Thread Craig via Mercedes

On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 22:48:09 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Probably lost only a pint or so.  pretty small puddle.  Out the vent?

Pretty small puddle?!!! I used up all the cat litter I have for putting
on spills ...


Anyway, I FINALLY found the torque spec for the transmission pan bolts.


Under Section 00 in the PDF of 2702, it says,

Torque specificationsNm

Drain plug, torque converter 14
Drain plug, oil pan (transmission 722.3, 722.4, 722.5)   14
Bolts, oil pan   transmission 722.0, 722.17
Bolts, oil pan   transmission 722.3, 722.4, 722.5 8


7 Nm  5.2 ft-lbf  62 in-lbf

8 Nm  5.9 ft-lbf  71 in-lbf

   14 Nm 10.3 ft-lbf 124 in-lbf



Craig

P.S. I can send   Auto.Trans-Fluid+Fiter.Change.2702.pdf
  Auto.Trans-Check+Correct.Fl.Lvl-2710.pdf

 offlist if you'd like.

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!!!

2019-03-30 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes


Probably lost only a pint or so.  pretty small puddle.  Out the vent?

Craig via Mercedes wrote on 3/30/19 10:17 PM:

...
So I screwed up.

Where did the fluid come out? Did it syphon extra fluid out, or is the
puddle only the quart I last added?


Craig



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Re: [MBZ] HELP!!!

2019-03-30 Thread Craig via Mercedes

On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 22:50:48 -0400 (EDT) Mitch Haley
 wrote:

> You drained the torque converter and overfilled the transmission
> without running the engine to put the fluid in the converter?

Apparently that's what I did. It was happy for four days with 5 quarts in
the transmission, but the sixth was the problem.

While waiting for response to my email, I looked at the W124 CD manual I
have on my computer. I found Section 27 to have:

27 Transmission

Service Information

27.1 - Transmission oil cooler with supplemental fan
DTC - 4MATIC Diagnostic Trouble Codes
Service Intro - Model Year 1992, Model 124 (USA), Introduction into
Service Service Intro - Model Year 1992, 400E/500E, Introduction into
Service 

Transmission

27-110 - Adjusting cable for control pressure
27-115 - Removing, installing and adjusting control pressure cable
with vacuum actuator 27-550 - Removing and installing transmission
air-oil cooler with blower 27-600 - Removing and installing transmission
with torque converter

but nothing about changing the fluid and filter.

I then looked at Section 00 Maintenance Procedures, Identification and
Owner's Manuals

In Section 00 Maintenance Jobs - 1981 through 1993, I found

2702 - Automatic transmission fluid and filter change
2710 - Automatic transmission, checking, correcting fluid level

2702 says,

Insert funnel (050) into dipstick opening and, with engine
stopped, fill in approx. 4 liters of fluid. Start engine and
run in selector position P and idle. Gradually add remaining
fluid. Move selector through positions R-N-D-N-R, pausing in
each position for several seconds, then return to position P.

So I screwed up.

Where did the fluid come out? Did it syphon extra fluid out, or is the
puddle only the quart I last added?

Craig

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!!!

2019-03-30 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes

You drained the torque converter and overfilled the transmission without 
running the engine to put the fluid in the converter?
> On March 30, 2019 at 10:32 PM Craig via Mercedes  
> wrote:
>
>
> I put in the sixth quart of ATF into the transmission on our '93 E300D
> just before dinner. After dinner, I went out into the Big Room to check
> on something and discovered a huge pool of ATF underneath and flowing out
> from under the car.
>
> What went wrong?!
>
>
> Craig
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Help with ML320 speed sensor connector?

2018-12-23 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes

Good Work!  Watago!  i figured there was a way,  Glad to hear MB did not 
inherit ALL foms of cheapness from Dogde.



Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes wrote on 12/23/18 7:10 PM:

I finally messed with it the right way. The trick is to push down on the female 
socket tab, not lift it. I was able to get it apart with only 2 hands :-). 
Tested the sensor and it looks ok (maybe).



Greg



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Re: [MBZ] Help with ML320 speed sensor connector?

2018-12-23 Thread Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes

I finally messed with it the right way. The trick is to push down on the female 
socket tab, not lift it. I was able to get it apart with only 2 hands :-). 
Tested the sensor and it looks ok (maybe).

<https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ac9eeab84djts2/Wheel%20Speed%20Sensor%20Test%20RF.jpg?dl=0>

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curley 
McLain via Mercedes
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 3:24 PM
To: Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes
Cc: Curley McLain
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Help with ML320 speed sensor connector?

On the Dogdes, I just cut off the keeper as they are nearly impossible 
to hold open while you pull the connector apart.  It takes 3 hands and I 
only have 2.   Dunno what the plug us like on your car, but there has to 
be a way.

Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes wrote on 12/23/18 4:50 PM:
> Anybody happen to know how to remove the RF wheel sensor connector without 
> destroying the connectors? It's an '02, the connector to the electrical 
> system, not the wheel. There's a catch on the sensor cable; do I just use a 
> small flat screwdriver to free the catch, then pull? It doesn't seem to want 
> to pull free and I'd prefer not to break anything.
>
>   
>
> Anybody BTDT?
>
>   
>
> Greg
>


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Re: [MBZ] Help with ML320 speed sensor connector?

2018-12-23 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes

On the Dogdes, I just cut off the keeper as they are nearly impossible 
to hold open while you pull the connector apart.  It takes 3 hands and I 
only have 2.   Dunno what the plug us like on your car, but there has to 
be a way.


Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes wrote on 12/23/18 4:50 PM:

Anybody happen to know how to remove the RF wheel sensor connector without 
destroying the connectors? It's an '02, the connector to the electrical system, 
not the wheel. There's a catch on the sensor cable; do I just use a small flat 
screwdriver to free the catch, then pull? It doesn't seem to want to pull free 
and I'd prefer not to break anything.

  


Anybody BTDT?

  


Greg




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Re: [MBZ] .'help'

2018-06-01 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes

Done.

-D


> On Jun 1, 2018, at 8:54 AM, Hans Neureiter via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> please undubscribe
> 
> -- 
> Hans Neureiter, Katy, TX
> '82 300SD
> '01 VW New Beetle 1.9L TDI
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Re: [MBZ] .'help'

2018-06-01 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes

Hans, you've been here forever,what happened?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Help! Trying to change the parking brake shoes on a W124

2017-12-23 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes


Speaking of the right tools, I still haven't done a thing about the worn out 
wheel bearing on the ML, aside from buying a couple of new bearings. 

Here's the right tool, anybody want to get it for me for Christmas?
http://www.autotoolworld.com/Sir-Tools-B90-M-B90-M-Rear-Wheel-Bearing-Kit-for-Mercedes_p_172728.html

It looks like with an hour or two, some angle iron, a plasma cutter, some nuts 
and threaded rod, and a welder, I could make something functional enough for 
occasional use.

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Re: [MBZ] Help! Trying to change the parking brake shoes on a W124

2017-12-23 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes

I'm with Rick, the right tool for the job makes big things no big deal. This is 
why Curley is scared of modern cars, he refuses to buy the right tools. 
Troubleshooting an electronic component that tells you whats wrong is easier 
and more practical than shotgunning parts at mechanical systems.
He's promised the computer in my 19 year old Jetta is going to fail but it 
hasn't yet. Even if it does replacements are readily available...
-Curt
 

On Saturday, December 23, 2017, 12:41:17 PM EST, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Curley sez:

>my mindset was always to NOT buy >special tools, but to develop some 
>>workaround.

I'm just the opposite. I mean, sure, if I can fabricate a tool to work, cool, 
but I don't need much of an excuse to buy a new tool. The tools at Baum's seem 
pricey though.

Rick
Who isn't going to rig a device for coil springs on a Benz, or ball joints, 
or...
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Re: [MBZ] Help! Trying to change the parking brake shoes on a W124

2017-12-23 Thread Rick Knoble via Mercedes

Curley sez:

>my mindset was always to NOT buy >special tools, but to develop some 
>>workaround.

I'm just the opposite. I mean, sure, if I can fabricate a tool to work, cool, 
but I don't need much of an excuse to buy a new tool. The tools at Baum's seem 
pricey though.

Rick
Who isn't going to rig a device for coil springs on a Benz, or ball joints, 
or...
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Re: [MBZ] Help! Trying to change the parking brake shoes on a W124

2017-12-23 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes

My memory is starting to  come back about this awful job.  I think in 
lieu of the hook tool I made a loop of 18-20 ga wire to pull on.  Then 
after the *#@&$!!! blasted spring was hooked, I cut the wire off.


I CAN see where the hook tool could be useful.   my mindset was always 
to NOT buy special tools, but to develop some workaround.

Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
December 23, 2017 at 10:06 AM
http://www.baumtools.com/shop/42brakes-c-14_80/1120961-brake-spring-installer-p-625.html

http://www.baumtools.com/shop/42brakes-c-14_80/1160162-parking-brake-spring-hook-p-626.html





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Re: [MBZ] Help! Trying to change the parking brake shoes on a W124

2017-12-23 Thread MG via Mercedes

If I remember, It's been a long time since I did mine, The 61 00 
tool is just a hook so any good strong hook tool will work. The 
other one is a bit different. It has to push down on the small 
coil spring and then turn it to disengage and later engage the 
hook in the back plate. I seem to remember finding the right size 
philips screwdriver so the point would fit part way into the top 
of the spring and one of the crosscuts engaged the hook rod that 
goes through the middle of the spring. Then you can push and turn 
the spring. Access is of course through a lug bolt hole in the 
flange. It all makes sense when you get a look at one of those 
springs.


Too small a screwdriver and it slides past the bent rod and gets 
stuck in the spring without compressing it and too large and it 
won't stay in the top of the spring or turn the spring.


I guess you could also make a tool by taking a flat screwdriver 
and grinding the blade off at each side of the front blade edge 
leaving a center piece that fits into the spring and the 
shoulders sit on the top edge of the spring to push with. Kind of 
like the quick and dirty pic attached.


MG

Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
Is there a MB Tool?  I looked at 43-0530 which call for 2 spring tools: 
112 589 09 61 00 and 116 589 01 62 00 - I know next to nothing about 
Special MB Tools but perhaps someone has some info?


Good luck!

Larry


On 12/23/2017 8:53 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
I think i tried using brake spring pliers but failed.  i tried lots of 
things, but nothing worked.  It took a lot of time.  I could not find 
any way to do it that seemed reasonable.



Max Dillon via Mercedes 
December 23, 2017 at 7:05 AM
I'll second the vice grips recommendation. I think I clamped the end 
of the spring with the vice grips, and then it was just brute force. 
I tried to figure out a way to lever the vice grips with a screw 
driver, but failed.


I believe the official shop tool is a hooked handle.



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Re: [MBZ] Help! Trying to change the parking brake shoes on a W124

2017-12-23 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes

There is a trick to getting them back on easily, but I can't describe it. 

The job is a royal pain without the correct tool.  Takes a stout hook to pull 
the spring on if you do it that way, but I seem to remember prying the shoe 
over something with the spring in place.  Been too long, don't remember.

Peter
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Re: [MBZ] Help! Trying to change the parking brake shoes on a W124

2017-12-23 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes

The Amazon link I sent has both of those tools for $30 + shipping.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On December 23, 2017 11:06:03 AM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>http://www.baumtools.com/shop/42brakes-c-14_80/1120961-brake-spring-installer-p-625.html
>
>http://www.baumtools.com/shop/42brakes-c-14_80/1160162-parking-brake-spring-hook-p-626.html
>
>
>> On Dec 23, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes
> wrote:
>> 
>> Is there a MB Tool?  I looked at 43-0530 which call for 2 spring
>tools: 112 589 09 61 00 and 116 589 01 62 00 - I know next to nothing
>about Special MB Tools but perhaps someone has some info?
>> 
>> Good luck!
>> 
>> Larry
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/23/2017 8:53 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
>>> I think i tried using brake spring pliers but failed.  i tried lots
>of things, but nothing worked.  It took a lot of time.  I could not
>find any way to do it that seemed reasonable.
>>> 
 Max Dillon via Mercedes 
 December 23, 2017 at 7:05 AM
 I'll second the vice grips recommendation. I think I clamped the
>end of the spring with the vice grips, and then it was just brute
>force. I tried to figure out a way to lever the vice grips with a screw
>driver, but failed.
 
 I believe the official shop tool is a hooked handle.
 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> 
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>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Help! Trying to change the parking brake shoes on a W124

2017-12-23 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes

http://www.baumtools.com/shop/42brakes-c-14_80/1120961-brake-spring-installer-p-625.html

http://www.baumtools.com/shop/42brakes-c-14_80/1160162-parking-brake-spring-hook-p-626.html


> On Dec 23, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is there a MB Tool?  I looked at 43-0530 which call for 2 spring tools: 112 
> 589 09 61 00 and 116 589 01 62 00 - I know next to nothing about Special MB 
> Tools but perhaps someone has some info?
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Larry
> 
> 
> On 12/23/2017 8:53 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
>> I think i tried using brake spring pliers but failed.  i tried lots of 
>> things, but nothing worked.  It took a lot of time.  I could not find any 
>> way to do it that seemed reasonable.
>> 
>>> Max Dillon via Mercedes 
>>> December 23, 2017 at 7:05 AM
>>> I'll second the vice grips recommendation. I think I clamped the end of the 
>>> spring with the vice grips, and then it was just brute force. I tried to 
>>> figure out a way to lever the vice grips with a screw driver, but failed.
>>> 
>>> I believe the official shop tool is a hooked handle.
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Help! Trying to change the parking brake shoes on a W124

2017-12-23 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes

Is there a MB Tool?  I looked at 43-0530 which call for 2 spring tools: 
112 589 09 61 00 and 116 589 01 62 00 - I know next to nothing about 
Special MB Tools but perhaps someone has some info?


Good luck!

Larry


On 12/23/2017 8:53 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
I think i tried using brake spring pliers but failed.  i tried lots of 
things, but nothing worked.  It took a lot of time.  I could not find 
any way to do it that seemed reasonable.



Max Dillon via Mercedes 
December 23, 2017 at 7:05 AM
I'll second the vice grips recommendation. I think I clamped the end 
of the spring with the vice grips, and then it was just brute force. 
I tried to figure out a way to lever the vice grips with a screw 
driver, but failed.


I believe the official shop tool is a hooked handle.



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Re: [MBZ] Help! Trying to change the parking brake shoes on a W124

2017-12-23 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes

I think i tried using brake spring pliers but failed.  i tried lots of 
things, but nothing worked.  It took a lot of time.  I could not find 
any way to do it that seemed reasonable.



Max Dillon via Mercedes 
December 23, 2017 at 7:05 AM
I'll second the vice grips recommendation. I think I clamped the end 
of the spring with the vice grips, and then it was just brute force. I 
tried to figure out a way to lever the vice grips with a screw driver, 
but failed.


I believe the official shop tool is a hooked handle.



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Re: [MBZ] Help! Trying to change the parking brake shoes on a W124

2017-12-23 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes

Here is a picture of the hooked tool.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01MTEUCQO/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8=1514034549=8-1=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65=Parking+brake+hook+tool=1=319qHxRPf7L=plSrch


-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On December 22, 2017 10:34:12 PM EST, Craig via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>I am in the process of re-doing the brakes on our '90 E300D.
>
>The front brakes are done (new disks, new sliding pin seals, new
>Akebono
>pads).
>
>I have started the rear brakes. On one side I have taken everything
>apart
>and am trying to put the parking brake assembly back together with new
>shoes. It has been a difficult job!
>
>Anyone have any suggestions on how to make it easier?
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Craig
>
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Re: [MBZ] Help! Trying to change the parking brake shoes on a W124

2017-12-23 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes

I'll second the vice grips recommendation.  I think I clamped the end of the 
spring with the vice grips, and then it was just brute force.  I tried to 
figure out a way to lever the vice grips with a screw driver, but failed.

I believe the official shop tool is a hooked handle.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] Help! Trying to change the parking brake shoes on a W124

2017-12-22 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes

It is helpful to have new springs and small parts.  At best they are a 
royal pain.  I don't know of any easy way, but I have ruined springs and 
lost small parts trying to put them back together.  It is a job I avoid 
at all costs.


 original vicegrips are a necessity.  Chinee fake vicegrips are likely 
to not hold the springs while trying to put things together.


Wear mechanics gloves or better to save your fingers and knuckles.


Craig via Mercedes 
December 22, 2017 at 9:34 PM
I am in the process of re-doing the brakes on our '90 E300D.

The front brakes are done (new disks, new sliding pin seals, new Akebono
pads).

I have started the rear brakes. On one side I have taken everything apart
and am trying to put the parking brake assembly back together with new
shoes. It has been a difficult job!

Anyone have any suggestions on how to make it easier?

Thanks,


Craig


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Re: [MBZ] help the daughter unit

2017-05-17 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

>
> Any liquid solvent will due, but think about disposal once done.


Gasoline burns nicely, in a bucket.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] help the daughter unit

2017-05-17 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes

I've used the flush that FLAPS sells, and alcohol.  Any liquid solvent will 
due, but think about disposal once done.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On May 17, 2017 12:42:10 PM EDT, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>I poured some in, and blew it through with compressed air.  I figured
>any
>residue would be very HC-refrigerant compatible, and also happy with
>the
>R12 mineral oil I was using.  The suck filter on the compressor is the
>most
>important thing.
>
>-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] help the daughter unit

2017-05-17 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

I poured some in, and blew it through with compressed air.  I figured any
residue would be very HC-refrigerant compatible, and also happy with the
R12 mineral oil I was using.  The suck filter on the compressor is the most
important thing.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] help the daughter unit

2017-05-17 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes


On 16/05/2017 11:53 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:

What do use to flush?


Last time I used gasoline!

-- Jim
___




Next question is how?

RB


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Re: [MBZ] help the daughter unit

2017-05-16 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

>
> What do use to flush?


Last time I used gasoline!

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] help the daughter unit

2017-05-16 Thread tyee165 via Mercedes

What do use to flush?


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> Date: 2017-05-16  8:31 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Cc: Jim Cathey 
<jim.cathey...@gmail.com>, Max Dillon <dillonm...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 
help the daughter unit 
Professional AC repair is a racket.  Quickie flush, replacement compressor,
test refrigerant, and an inline filter on the suction side and it should be
good to go.  What, $200 DIY?  Windows are usually not horribly expensive to
fix.  Either a used regulator, or a new sliding jaw.  Unless it's
electrical, in which case a can of DeOxIt and a new fuse or two isn't that
expensive.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] help the daughter unit

2017-05-16 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

Professional AC repair is a racket.  Quickie flush, replacement compressor,
test refrigerant, and an inline filter on the suction side and it should be
good to go.  What, $200 DIY?  Windows are usually not horribly expensive to
fix.  Either a used regulator, or a new sliding jaw.  Unless it's
electrical, in which case a can of DeOxIt and a new fuse or two isn't that
expensive.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] help the daughter unit

2017-05-16 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes

That ML will drink a lot of premium gasoline...

Get the 99 E300 turbo diesel.

-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] help the daughter unit

2017-05-16 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes

The engine on her SD is blowing oil too, it's probably the seals which I 
am not inclined to deal with as the car is not here. Needs (probably) 3 
window motors.  The AC was quoted at $900 up depending on if the 
compressor sent crap everywhere when it munched.  The car is probably 
worth $1500 at best, maybe $2k.  The other one here has an R12 AC that 
was working originally but leaked down, I could probably get it running, 
but she wants something newer, which could have its own set of issues, 
but whatever...


She talked to the E55 guy, he was kinda evasive, she ran the VIN and it 
turned out the car was bought from a salvage yard in 2016 with front=end 
damage, I guess someone bought it and fixed it and is now flipping it.  
No telling what the damage was, she is running away from that.  Talked 
to this guy, https://greenville.craigslist.org/cto/6132810319.html  who 
she said was nice, they are selling the car to get a newer one, no 
problems with it (yeah, I know...) so she is going to try to go take a 
look at it, I might drive up sometime too to look at it with her.


==FT



On 5/16/17 6:12 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

Spend half or less of her budget fixing the SD - then she has a known good
car. Those same things will break soon on a $4,000 MB. Better the devil you
know . . .

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


So the daughter unit has gotten tired of no AC in the SD and windows that
don't work so she thinks she wants to spend up to $4k on another car.  She
of course has been spoiled by her and her mom's Benzes so I found some in
her range.  Recognizing cheap mercedes etc  I told her she will have to
maintain it, likely to be more expensive than the old SD but that is spendy
too for a new AC compressor, etc. ($900+ at the shop which seems very high
but what do I know)

What might y'all think of these rides?  I also suggested a cheap hondoyota
etc. which she sneered at.


Salvage hail damage but looks nice https://charleston.craigslist.
org/cto/6132552457.html

ML https://greenville.craigslist.org/cto/6132810319.html

E320 https://greenville.craigslist.org/cto/6091846552.html

A rocket https://greenville.craigslist.org/cto/6119257403.html

This might be a good deal https://greenville.craigslist.
org/cto/6075911456.html

Cheap ML https://greenville.craigslist.org/cto/6120034674.html

She sent this guy an email https://greenville.craigslist.
org/cto/6118679142.html

--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small,
large or petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of
the enemy.”


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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] help the daughter unit

2017-05-16 Thread OK Don via Mercedes

Spend half or less of her budget fixing the SD - then she has a known good
car. Those same things will break soon on a $4,000 MB. Better the devil you
know . . .

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> So the daughter unit has gotten tired of no AC in the SD and windows that
> don't work so she thinks she wants to spend up to $4k on another car.  She
> of course has been spoiled by her and her mom's Benzes so I found some in
> her range.  Recognizing cheap mercedes etc  I told her she will have to
> maintain it, likely to be more expensive than the old SD but that is spendy
> too for a new AC compressor, etc. ($900+ at the shop which seems very high
> but what do I know)
>
> What might y'all think of these rides?  I also suggested a cheap hondoyota
> etc. which she sneered at.
>
>
> Salvage hail damage but looks nice https://charleston.craigslist.
> org/cto/6132552457.html
>
> ML https://greenville.craigslist.org/cto/6132810319.html
>
> E320 https://greenville.craigslist.org/cto/6091846552.html
>
> A rocket https://greenville.craigslist.org/cto/6119257403.html
>
> This might be a good deal https://greenville.craigslist.
> org/cto/6075911456.html
>
> Cheap ML https://greenville.craigslist.org/cto/6120034674.html
>
> She sent this guy an email https://greenville.craigslist.
> org/cto/6118679142.html
>
> --
> --FT
> Winston Churchill:
> “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small,
> large or petty,
> never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
> Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of
> the enemy.”
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-03 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes


With the probes together it reads  .000

LarryT


On 01/02/2017 2:54 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
What does the same meter read with the probes together?  Is it 0.0? I 
don't know the idiosyncracies of your meter.  each model is different 
and some variance within the same model would not be unusual.


1 and 5 are probably ok.   I am concerned about 2, 3 and 4, all are 
too low.  they could indicate a short.


Can you visually inspect the wiring harness?  I suspect not,  if it is 
secured as from the factory.


If you can do the ammeter test, that will tell you for sure.

I

Larry Turner via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM
What does this tell me?

OK, I finally tested the Ohms at each installed Glow Plug .  I think 
the red probe was on the threaded tip each time and the black probe 
was on the manifold. 1 - .6 (on the wire hold down nut)


1 - .6 (probe on the 12v wire hold down nut)

2 - .2

3 - .1

4 - .1

5 - .4

Larry




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Larry Turner via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 2, 2017 at 11:07 AM
Thanks.  I plan to toss them all.At least now I know what the 
test indicated. ;-)


Thx again

Larry




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Fred Moir via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 2, 2017 at 11:05 AM
Larry.

1 & 2 seem to be in range 3, 4, and 5 are junk.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Larry 
Turner via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

Sent: 02 January 2017 11:51
To: Curley McLain via Mercedes
Cc: Larry Turner
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

OK, I tested my old GPs using my DMM and found the following. I put
the red probe against the threads at the tip and the black probe against
the threads that contact with the head. I used a Fluke 77 Series III
if that matters. And the dial set to Resistance ?.

What does this tell me?

*GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*

*GP 2 - 0.3 "*

*GP 3 - 3.50 "*

*GP 4 - 63.4 "*

*GP 5 - 11.61 "*

*Thanks.

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Larry Turner via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 2, 2017 at 10:51 AM
OK, I tested my old GPs using my DMM and found the following. I put 
the red probe against the threads at the tip and the black probe 
against the threads that contact with the head.   I used a Fluke 77 
Series III if that matters.  And the dial set to Resistance ?.


What does this tell me?

*GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*

*GP 2 - 0.3   "*

*GP 3 - 3.50  "*

*GP 4 - 63.4  "*

*GP 5 - 11.61  "*

*
*

*Thanks!*

**




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Curley McLain <mailto:126die...@gmail.com>
January 2, 2017 at 9:12 AM
I've done that before.  it is very dangerous on several accounts.

Philips in car test is better.  Use 12 ga (or 10 ga) wire to energize 
one pin position at a time.  the ammeter is better than having to 
remove the injectors and look in the hole.





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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes

Sorry, I should have been more clear.   I was attempting to create a 
copy of the 6 hole plug (only 5 holes are hot for a 300D) hoping the X 
would indicate the Pin coming out of the connector.Each X should 
have a number 1 to 5 next to it.   Each of those 5 posts had an 
electrical value that I was testing.


Hope that makes sense?

Larry

On 01/02/2017 4:18 PM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
All the plugs seem to be good. So what was that series of number that 
you sent that had the Xs in it? copy below


Plug that connects to the GP Relay
0.0 to 0.1  X
0.0 X   X0.3 -  0.4
   0.1X  X   0.3 - 0.4 (where 'X' 
equals a plug for 12v from the relay to the GP.)


Can't really figure out what you mean here. If you could do one number 
and X per line with a carriage return or Enter push after each X  it 
might be a bit easier to read. Something like this


0.0 to 0.1 X
0.0 X
0.3 to 0.4 X
0.1 X
0.3 to 0.4 X

Don't know if that is what you wanted to show but this way each of the 
plugs is listed on it's own line.


If the values are correct then #2 seems to show a direct to ground 
path. #1 may have a ground and #4 may or may not. My Fluke shows .4 to 
1.0 for good plugs and I consider bad ones are 2.0 or more.


The worst part is that your other email where you touch the probes to 
the glow plugs directly show different values.


Why?

Did you disconnect the wires to the relay from the plugs before you 
did those measurements or did you just remove the intake manifold?


Like the others say when you change the conditions of the test then 
you don't know where the problem was any more.





Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:

What does this tell me?

OK, I finally tested the Ohms at each installed Glow Plug .  I think 
the red probe was on the threaded tip each time and the black probe 
was on the manifold. 1 - .6 (on the wire hold down nut)


1 - .6 (probe on the 12v wire hold down nut)

2 - .2

3 - .1

4 - .1

5 - .4

Larry


On 01/02/2017 12:07 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
Thanks. I plan to toss them all.At least now I know what the 
test indicated. ;-)


Thx again

Larry


On 01/02/2017 12:05 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:

Larry.

1 & 2 seem to be in range 3, 4, and 5 are junk.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Larry 
Turner via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

Sent: 02 January 2017 11:51
To: Curley McLain via Mercedes
Cc: Larry Turner
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

OK, I tested my old GPs using my DMM and found the following. I put
the red probe against the threads at the tip and the black probe 
against

the threads that contact with the head.   I used a Fluke 77 Series III
if that matters.  And the dial set to Resistance ?.

What does this tell me?

*GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*

*GP 2 - 0.3   "*

*GP 3 - 3.50  "*

*GP 4 - 63.4  "*

*GP 5 - 11.61  "*

*Thanks.

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes

What does the same meter read with the probes together?  Is it 0.0?I 
don't know the idiosyncracies of your meter.  each model is different 
and some variance within the same model would not be unusual.


1 and 5 are probably ok.   I am concerned about 2, 3 and 4, all are too 
low.  they could indicate a short.


Can you visually inspect the wiring harness?  I suspect not,  if it is 
secured as from the factory.


If you can do the ammeter test, that will tell you for sure.

I

Larry Turner via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 2, 2017 at 11:30 AM
What does this tell me?

OK, I finally tested the Ohms at each installed Glow Plug .  I think 
the red probe was on the threaded tip each time and the black probe 
was on the manifold. 1 - .6 (on the wire hold down nut)


1 - .6 (probe on the 12v wire hold down nut)

2 - .2

3 - .1

4 - .1

5 - .4

Larry




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Larry Turner via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 2, 2017 at 11:07 AM
Thanks.  I plan to toss them all.At least now I know what the test 
indicated. ;-)


Thx again

Larry




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Fred Moir via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 2, 2017 at 11:05 AM
Larry.

1 & 2 seem to be in range 3, 4, and 5 are junk.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Larry 
Turner via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

Sent: 02 January 2017 11:51
To: Curley McLain via Mercedes
Cc: Larry Turner
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

OK, I tested my old GPs using my DMM and found the following. I put
the red probe against the threads at the tip and the black probe against
the threads that contact with the head. I used a Fluke 77 Series III
if that matters. And the dial set to Resistance ?.

What does this tell me?

*GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*

*GP 2 - 0.3 "*

*GP 3 - 3.50 "*

*GP 4 - 63.4 "*

*GP 5 - 11.61 "*

*Thanks.

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Larry Turner via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 2, 2017 at 10:51 AM
OK, I tested my old GPs using my DMM and found the following.   I put 
the red probe against the threads at the tip and the black probe 
against the threads that contact with the head.   I used a Fluke 77 
Series III if that matters.  And the dial set to Resistance ?.


What does this tell me?

*GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*

*GP 2 - 0.3   "*

*GP 3 - 3.50  "*

*GP 4 - 63.4  "*

*GP 5 - 11.61  "*

*
*

*Thanks!*

**




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Curley McLain <mailto:126die...@gmail.com>
January 2, 2017 at 9:12 AM
I've done that before.  it is very dangerous on several accounts.

Philips in car test is better.  Use 12 ga (or 10 ga) wire to energize 
one pin position at a time.  the ammeter is better than having to 
remove the injectors and look in the hole.





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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread MG via Mercedes

All the plugs seem to be good. So what was that series of number 
that you sent that had the Xs in it? copy below


Plug that connects to the GP Relay
0.0 to 0.1  X
0.0 X   X0.3 -  0.4
   0.1X  X   0.3 - 0.4 
   (where 'X' equals a plug for 12v from the relay to the GP.)


Can't really figure out what you mean here. If you could do one 
number and X per line with a carriage return or Enter push after 
each X  it might be a bit easier to read. Something like this


0.0 to 0.1 X
0.0 X
0.3 to 0.4 X
0.1 X
0.3 to 0.4 X

Don't know if that is what you wanted to show but this way each 
of the plugs is listed on it's own line.


If the values are correct then #2 seems to show a direct to 
ground path. #1 may have a ground and #4 may or may not. My Fluke 
shows .4 to 1.0 for good plugs and I consider bad ones are 2.0 or 
more.


The worst part is that your other email where you touch the 
probes to the glow plugs directly show different values.


Why?

Did you disconnect the wires to the relay from the plugs before 
you did those measurements or did you just remove the intake 
manifold?


Like the others say when you change the conditions of the test 
then you don't know where the problem was any more.





Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:

What does this tell me?

OK, I finally tested the Ohms at each installed Glow Plug .  I think the 
red probe was on the threaded tip each time and the black probe was on 
the manifold. 1 - .6 (on the wire hold down nut)


1 - .6 (probe on the 12v wire hold down nut)

2 - .2

3 - .1

4 - .1

5 - .4

Larry


On 01/02/2017 12:07 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
Thanks. I plan to toss them all.At least now I know what the test 
indicated. ;-)


Thx again

Larry


On 01/02/2017 12:05 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:

Larry.

1 & 2 seem to be in range 3, 4, and 5 are junk.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Larry 
Turner via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

Sent: 02 January 2017 11:51
To: Curley McLain via Mercedes
Cc: Larry Turner
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

OK, I tested my old GPs using my DMM and found the following. I put
the red probe against the threads at the tip and the black probe against
the threads that contact with the head.   I used a Fluke 77 Series III
if that matters.  And the dial set to Resistance ?.

What does this tell me?

*GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*

*GP 2 - 0.3   "*

*GP 3 - 3.50  "*

*GP 4 - 63.4  "*

*GP 5 - 11.61  "*

*Thanks.

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Rick Knoble via Mercedes

>So i guess the reading would be the same >even if from the other end?

Yes, if they are not disconnected from the glow plugs. 

>3 - .1
>
> 4 - .1

I would say those two are shorted to ground. What does your meter read with the 
test leads touching each other? 

If they are grounded, they would be either grounded at the threaded end to the 
manifold, or grounded by carbon in the prechamber. You did ream the carbon out, 
yes?

Rick 


Larry


On 01/02/2017 1:10 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> They look good to me. You know you can check that at the harness end and the 
> glow plug relay which is much easier
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 2, 2017, at 11:30 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> What does this tell me?
>>
>> OK, I finally tested the Ohms at each installed Glow Plug . I think the red 
>> probe was on the threaded tip each time and the black probe was on the 
>> manifold. 1 - .6 (on the wire hold down nut)
>>
>> 1 - .6 (probe on the 12v wire hold down nut)
>>
>> 2 - .2
>>
>> 
>>
>> 5 - .4
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>>> On 01/02/2017 12:07 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
>>> Thanks. I plan to toss them all. At least now I know what the test 
>>> indicated. ;-)
>>>
>>> Thx again
>>>
>>> Larry
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 01/02/2017 12:05 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:
>>>> Larry.
>>>>
>>>> 1 & 2 seem to be in range 3, 4, and 5 are junk.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fred Moir.
>>>> Lynn MA.
>>>> Diesel preferred.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Larry Turner 
>>>> via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>>> Sent: 02 January 2017 11:51
>>>> To: Curley McLain via Mercedes
>>>> Cc: Larry Turner
>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting
>>>>
>>>> OK, I tested my old GPs using my DMM and found the following. I put
>>>> the red probe against the threads at the tip and the black probe against
>>>> the threads that contact with the head. I used a Fluke 77 Series III
>>>> if that matters. And the dial set to Resistance ?.
>>>>
>>>> What does this tell me?
>>>>
>>>> *GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*
>>>>
>>>> *GP 2 - 0.3 "*
>>>>
>>>> *GP 3 - 3.50 "*
>>>>
>>>> *GP 4 - 63.4 "*
>>>>
>>>> *GP 5 - 11.61 "*
>>>>
>>>> *Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>>
>>>>
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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes


So i guess the reading would be the same even if from the other end?

Larry


On 01/02/2017 1:10 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

They look good to me. You know you can check that at the harness end and the 
glow plug relay which is much easier

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 2, 2017, at 11:30 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
wrote:

What does this tell me?

OK, I finally tested the Ohms at each installed Glow Plug .  I think the red 
probe was on the threaded tip each time and the black probe was on the 
manifold. 1 - .6 (on the wire hold down nut)

1 - .6 (probe on the 12v wire hold down nut)

2 - .2

3 - .1

4 - .1

5 - .4

Larry



On 01/02/2017 12:07 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
Thanks. I plan to toss them all.At least now I know what the test 
indicated. ;-)

Thx again

Larry



On 01/02/2017 12:05 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:
Larry.

1 & 2 seem to be in range 3, 4, and 5 are junk.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Larry Turner via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Sent: 02 January 2017 11:51
To: Curley McLain via Mercedes
Cc: Larry Turner
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

OK, I tested my old GPs using my DMM and found the following. I put
the red probe against the threads at the tip and the black probe against
the threads that contact with the head.   I used a Fluke 77 Series III
if that matters.  And the dial set to Resistance ?.

What does this tell me?

*GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*

*GP 2 - 0.3   "*

*GP 3 - 3.50  "*

*GP 4 - 63.4  "*

*GP 5 - 11.61  "*

*Thanks.

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread fmiser via Mercedes

> Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
>
> I plan to take the intake manifold off (as soon as I get a
> stubborn bolt out) and then I will inspect the wiring looking
> for possible shorts.

Curley wrote:

ANY GP WIRES THAT ARE GROUNDED ON THE MANIFOLD (most common
problem) WON'T SHOW THE FAULT WITH THE MANIFOLD REMOVED.

Exactly!  The environment changes and the testing is not fully
valid anymore.  If you start moving and changing things, you may never 
figure out what the problem was - it might "magically" disappear. 
Trouble is, it might just as magically re-appear too!

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread fmiser via Mercedes


Larry wrote:



No, don't need the instructions again,.   I do need to find a
Ammeter. I was hoping this problem would be behind me by now,
but it looks like I'm going to need more troubleshooting tools.



I would like to find a solid, *easy test t**o determine **if a
GP is good or bad*...   Testing the GPs in the engine is not
easy because of all the obstacles in the way.


*smiles*  This is why I so like the ammeter test.

 * Glow plugs stay right where they are, in the engine, buried or
   not

 * Access to the glow plug relay is all that is necessary

 * The plugs are tested _exactly_ in their service environment

 * The plugs themselves, the wires, and the connections are tested
   also in their service environment

 * It is fast, safe, easy, and highly accurate.  It can even
   identify glow plugs that work, but are weak. (cold current,
   time for the current to decrease, and hot current.)


I was wondering if I use a spare battery and attach the relay
wire end to the positive terminal and the block threads to the
negative end.  I know it would be dangerous as a good GP will
produce over 1000F in a matter of seconds and quickly glow red.
But if I use my biggest pliers and welding gloves, I should be
safe.


Yes.  It should be safe.  And you can use the car battery - you
don't need to use a spare. But why take the intake off, change the 
situation, and take all the glow plugs out rather than test them in 
place and only mess with the intake IF there is a bad glowplug?  If you 
do have a wire or terminal grounding on the intake, you will find no 
problem.



Would that be a reasonable way to determine if a GP is good/bad?


Sort of.  You could see if it glows - but the current draw is
directly related to the resistance which is the primary factor in
the "health" of the glowplug.  Just seeing that it gets red will
let you know it works - but the wire and connector are still
un-tested.  And if part of the problem is how the plugs, wires, 
terminals, and intake manifold interact the problem will have changed 
the environment and so changed the problem.



I will be happy to test them with my DMM if that's a sure-fire
way to test them.


If your DMM is capable of measuring 40 ADC, it will work.  But
even a good meter's ohm reading is not very accurate.  A milliohm
meter should do the job, but that is not a feature on a typical
DMM.  But neither is 40 ADC.



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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes

Seems reasonably good, now find the fault in the wiring from the plugs to the 
relay...
-Curt


  From: Larry Turner via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Larry Turner <l02tur...@comcast.net>
 Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 12:30 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting
   
What does this tell me?

OK, I finally tested the Ohms at each installed Glow Plug .  I think the 
red probe was on the threaded tip each time and the black probe was on 
the manifold. 1 - .6 (on the wire hold down nut)

1 - .6 (probe on the 12v wire hold down nut)

2 - .2

3 - .1

4 - .1

5 - .4

Larry


On 01/02/2017 12:07 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
> Thanks. I plan to toss them all.    At least now I know what the test 
> indicated. ;-)
>
> Thx again
>
> Larry
>
>
> On 01/02/2017 12:05 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:
>> Larry.
>>
>> 1 & 2 seem to be in range 3, 4, and 5 are junk.
>>
>>
>> Fred Moir.
>> Lynn MA.
>> Diesel preferred.
>>
>>
>> 
>> From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Larry 
>> Turner via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> Sent: 02 January 2017 11:51
>> To: Curley McLain via Mercedes
>> Cc: Larry Turner
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting
>>
>> OK, I tested my old GPs using my DMM and found the following. I put
>> the red probe against the threads at the tip and the black probe against
>> the threads that contact with the head.  I used a Fluke 77 Series III
>> if that matters.  And the dial set to Resistance ?.
>>
>> What does this tell me?
>>
>> *GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*
>>
>> *GP 2 - 0.3  "*
>>
>> *GP 3 - 3.50  "*
>>
>> *GP 4 - 63.4  "*
>>
>> *GP 5 - 11.61  "*
>>
>> *Thanks.
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes

They look good to me. You know you can check that at the harness end and the 
glow plug relay which is much easier 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 2, 2017, at 11:30 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> What does this tell me?
> 
> OK, I finally tested the Ohms at each installed Glow Plug .  I think the red 
> probe was on the threaded tip each time and the black probe was on the 
> manifold. 1 - .6 (on the wire hold down nut)
> 
> 1 - .6 (probe on the 12v wire hold down nut)
> 
> 2 - .2
> 
> 3 - .1
> 
> 4 - .1
> 
> 5 - .4
> 
> Larry
> 
> 
>> On 01/02/2017 12:07 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
>> Thanks. I plan to toss them all.At least now I know what the test 
>> indicated. ;-)
>> 
>> Thx again
>> 
>> Larry
>> 
>> 
>>> On 01/02/2017 12:05 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:
>>> Larry.
>>> 
>>> 1 & 2 seem to be in range 3, 4, and 5 are junk.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Fred Moir.
>>> Lynn MA.
>>> Diesel preferred.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________
>>> From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Larry Turner 
>>> via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>> Sent: 02 January 2017 11:51
>>> To: Curley McLain via Mercedes
>>> Cc: Larry Turner
>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting
>>> 
>>> OK, I tested my old GPs using my DMM and found the following. I put
>>> the red probe against the threads at the tip and the black probe against
>>> the threads that contact with the head.   I used a Fluke 77 Series III
>>> if that matters.  And the dial set to Resistance ?.
>>> 
>>> What does this tell me?
>>> 
>>> *GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*
>>> 
>>> *GP 2 - 0.3   "*
>>> 
>>> *GP 3 - 3.50  "*
>>> 
>>> *GP 4 - 63.4  "*
>>> 
>>> *GP 5 - 11.61  "*
>>> 
>>> *Thanks.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes


I'm on he verge of buying new glow plugs.


On 01/02/2017 12:07 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
Thanks. I plan to toss them all.At least now I know what the test 
indicated. ;-)


Thx again

Larry


On 01/02/2017 12:05 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:

Larry.

1 & 2 seem to be in range 3, 4, and 5 are junk.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Larry 
Turner via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

Sent: 02 January 2017 11:51
To: Curley McLain via Mercedes
Cc: Larry Turner
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

OK, I tested my old GPs using my DMM and found the following. I put
the red probe against the threads at the tip and the black probe against
the threads that contact with the head.   I used a Fluke 77 Series III
if that matters.  And the dial set to Resistance ?.

What does this tell me?

*GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*

*GP 2 - 0.3   "*

*GP 3 - 3.50  "*

*GP 4 - 63.4  "*

*GP 5 - 11.61  "*

*Thanks.

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes


What does this tell me?

OK, I finally tested the Ohms at each installed Glow Plug .  I think the 
red probe was on the threaded tip each time and the black probe was on 
the manifold. 1 - .6 (on the wire hold down nut)


1 - .6 (probe on the 12v wire hold down nut)

2 - .2

3 - .1

4 - .1

5 - .4

Larry


On 01/02/2017 12:07 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
Thanks. I plan to toss them all.At least now I know what the test 
indicated. ;-)


Thx again

Larry


On 01/02/2017 12:05 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:

Larry.

1 & 2 seem to be in range 3, 4, and 5 are junk.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Larry 
Turner via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

Sent: 02 January 2017 11:51
To: Curley McLain via Mercedes
Cc: Larry Turner
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

OK, I tested my old GPs using my DMM and found the following. I put
the red probe against the threads at the tip and the black probe against
the threads that contact with the head.   I used a Fluke 77 Series III
if that matters.  And the dial set to Resistance ?.

What does this tell me?

*GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*

*GP 2 - 0.3   "*

*GP 3 - 3.50  "*

*GP 4 - 63.4  "*

*GP 5 - 11.61  "*

*Thanks.

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes

Thanks.  I plan to toss them all.At least now I know what the test 
indicated. ;-)


Thx again

Larry


On 01/02/2017 12:05 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:

Larry.

1 & 2 seem to be in range 3, 4, and 5 are junk.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Larry Turner via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Sent: 02 January 2017 11:51
To: Curley McLain via Mercedes
Cc: Larry Turner
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

OK, I tested my old GPs using my DMM and found the following.   I put
the red probe against the threads at the tip and the black probe against
the threads that contact with the head.   I used a Fluke 77 Series III
if that matters.  And the dial set to Resistance ?.

What does this tell me?

*GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*

*GP 2 - 0.3   "*

*GP 3 - 3.50  "*

*GP 4 - 63.4  "*

*GP 5 - 11.61  "*

*Thanks.

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Fred Moir via Mercedes

Larry.

1 & 2 seem to be in range 3, 4, and 5 are junk.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Larry Turner via 
Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Sent: 02 January 2017 11:51
To: Curley McLain via Mercedes
Cc: Larry Turner
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

OK, I tested my old GPs using my DMM and found the following.   I put
the red probe against the threads at the tip and the black probe against
the threads that contact with the head.   I used a Fluke 77 Series III
if that matters.  And the dial set to Resistance ?.

What does this tell me?

*GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*

*GP 2 - 0.3   "*

*GP 3 - 3.50  "*

*GP 4 - 63.4  "*

*GP 5 - 11.61  "*

*Thanks.

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

>
> What does this tell me?

*GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*
> *GP 2 - 0.3   "*
> *GP 3 - 3.50  "*
> *GP 4 - 63.4  "*
> *GP 5 - 11.61  "*
>

That three of your five GP's were bad.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes


Curley, My answers follow your questions


On 01/02/2017 10:46 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:

Larry, let us know if this recap is correct:

no start (without excessive cranking.) Correct

5 GPs changed with intake manifold off Yes

no start Correct

GP fuse found blown Yes

GP fuse replaced Yes

Was this fuse blown?Yes, as soon as the key was turned to 
Pre-glow   At that point I replaced the Relay and ut also blew a 
fuse.   In all cases when I mention "Fuse" I am talking about the 80A 
Flat fuse on the bottom of the relay.


I believe you visually inspected the GP terminals, and non of the wire 
terminals were touching.  Is this correct? Yes, but some are very hard 
to see.   Obviously (I think) there must be a power cable touching 
ground somewhere, right?


measuring GP relay plug to ground shows 0.0 ohms for all 5 GPs No, see 
below:

Plug that connects to the GP Relay
0.0 to 0.1  X

0.0 X   X0.3 -  0.4
   0.1X  X   0.3 - 0.4 
(where 'X' equals a plug for 12v from the relay to the GP.)

next steps:


While I start the next steps, I'd like to hear what ya'll think about 
the test results above




1. with plug to GPs pulled off, turn on key and measure volts at all 5 
output pins on the relay nefore the relay times out.  (a helper to 
turn the key is good.)

2. check meter with known good GPs to get an average reading for good GPs
3. Post the model number of your fluke so someone can figure out its 
ability to read fractional ohms. *Fluke 77 Series III*


4.  If test #1 appears good (+12v at all 5 terminals) then proceed 
with Philip's ammeter test.


I would NOT bother taking the manifold off until these 4 steps have 
been completed. *OK, I'll leave the bolt with damaged Hex as is for now.*


For future reference, next time you do a manifold off GP replacement, 
start the car to test before you put the manifold back on. *How do I 
start the car without the manifold?*



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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes

OK, I tested my old GPs using my DMM and found the following.   I put 
the red probe against the threads at the tip and the black probe against 
the threads that contact with the head.   I used a Fluke 77 Series III 
if that matters.  And the dial set to Resistance Ω.


What does this tell me?

*GP 1 - **0.3 * *Bosch*

*GP 2 - 0.3   "*

*GP 3 - 3.50  "*

*GP 4 - 63.4  "*

*GP 5 - 11.61  "*

*
*

*Thanks!*

**


On 01/02/2017 10:12 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:

I've done that before.  it is very dangerous on several accounts.

Philips in car test is better.  Use 12 ga (or 10 ga) wire to energize 
one pin position at a time.  the ammeter is better than having to 
remove the injectors and look in the hole.



Larry Turner via Mercedes 
January 2, 2017 at 7:27 AM
Hey Curley, This is a very definitive troubleshooting guide. It's a 
keeper.


What do you think about me testing my old GPs with a old Battery?  
Actually I have 3 old 12v batteries not being used so any of them 
could be used.  My biggest concern is this test would make a GP glow 
red indicating (to me at least) the GP is good.  Is that a false 
assumption?


Thanks!

Larry




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Curley McLain 
December 26, 2016 at 9:21 AM
Basics:

0. put the charger on the battery to recharge/maintain it during a 
lot of cranking.


1.  Crack the fuel line(s) then crank to make sure you have fuel 
delivery.  About 720º degrees rotation  on the crank should be 
enough.  If you need to bleed the system, more cranking is needed.


2.  If fuel is being delivered to the nozzles, Then proceed to 
electrical checks


3.  Key on to glow position, check for 12V at each GP.  Be careful 
not to short the probe to ground.  You may need a couple of glow 
cycles to complete this.  A helper to turn the key to glow/off makes 
it easier.


4.  Pull off the cover from the GP relay, pull the plug to the GPs.  
If 0V on step 3, turn key go to glow and check for 12V on the relay 
at the terminals for the GP wires.  If 0V, replace fuses first, if 
present.  Otherwise, replace GP relay.
(a further test is possible to make sure the key is delivering juice 
to the relay to turn  on the relay.  Consult wiring diagram for this 
info)  If a fuse is present, it is generally a fuse problem.  if a 
new fuse does not fix it, and GP, GP wires are good, it is almost 
always a bad relay.


5.  If all used relay pins are delivering 12V to the wiring harness 
to the GPs, turn the multimeter to the lowest ohm reading you have. 
check meter for zero.  If you can't get 0, offet your reading by the 
static amount.  Check the used sockets in the plug on the GP harness 
between one socket and ground. Book value is 1.4 ohms.  0 ohms is a 
open plug, replace it. over 1.7 ohms os a bad plug, replace it, if 
you are sure your meter is reading correctly.  It takes a good meter 
to read 1.4 ohms.   with a cheap ($10 HF) meter it is 0 or infinity, 
so if you get something near 0 ohms, you assume it is good; infinity 
indicates it is an open circuit, replace the plug.  GPs usually fail 
open.  A GP with say 2.4 ohms reading is on its way out and needs to 
be replaced.  2.4 is about as high as I have seen.  I have seen 
meters that consistently read 1.7 on good or new GPs, so you have to 
learn  your meter's idiosyncrasies, unless you have a very expensive 
($500+) meter.



You guys edit this to make this an all purpose troubleshooting 
formula for non start or slow start Diesels.


Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 26, 2016 at 8:42 AM
No. i probably didn't explain the chronology very well.

1,. Tried to start it - had to crank excessively to get it to finally 
start - .


2.  After excessive cranking it started running very rough - exactly 
like it would be when 1 or 2 GPs go dead..  (After your question 
about the dash light I recalled it being illuminated while the car 
was running.)


3. During this start up episode I noticed lots of white smoke from 
the exhaust pipe.


4 Since I had 5 new GPs on the shelf I jumped in to R the GP 
probably too quickly.


5 After replacing the GPs I tried to start it and it just cranked 
over.   Since I had removed the fuel lines to get access to the GPs, 
I failed to bleed them after re-installation.


6 My next step will be to bleed the air from the fuel lines then try 
to start it once more.


7. I will do the electrical tests suggested by Mitch to confirm my 
relay has died.  BTW, I checked the in line fuse just in case only to 
find it perfect.I think there's a fuse across the bottom of the 
relay but doubt it has gone bad.






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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes


Thx!  I hadn't considered that.


On 01/02/2017 10:05 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
ANY GP WIRES THAT ARE GROUNDED ON THE MANIFOLD (most common problem) 
WON'T SHOW THE FAULT WITH THE MANIFOLD REMOVED.


Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
I plan to take the intake manifold off (as soon as I get a stubborn 
bolt out) and then I will inspect the wiring looking for possible 
shorts. 


When you have known good GPs, ( I used to always check new ones ) 
check them with the meter until you find a meter that will 
consistently show a difference between 0 ohms and .8 ohms or beteeen 0 
and 1.2 ohms.  Once you find a meter that shows a difference, then you 
can check used ones in the engine with a ohm meter.


It is not so much what the reading is, so long as it is able to show a 
difference between 0 ohms and 1 ohms.  This was particularly true in 
the days of the analog meters.


If you post your fluke model number, perhaps someone can tell you its 
capability to differentiate between 0 and 1 ohm, assuming test leads 
are good.



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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes

OK that's what I have.  a plug with 6 holes but only 5 are connected. 
That plug sends 12v to the GPs I believe.I understand what you were 
saying now.  Thanks!


I think this is typical for a 5 cyl.

one large 12v wire, 2 plugs - 1 which has 5 active openings for GP power 
and a smaller square plug that has control power that turns the relay 
on& off.



On 01/02/2017 10:09 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
in your GP wiring harness, the plug at the relay has six positions. I 
believe only 5 are used.  the ones used are lined with a socket for 
the pins in the relay.  That is what I referred to as a liner in the 
socket of the plug.  I am not familiar with 5 cyl OM602.  I know on 
the 616, only 4 have sockets, on the 617, there are 5 sockets used.  
On the 603, all six are used, so have sockets (liners) in the plug.



Larry Turner via Mercedes 
January 2, 2017 at 6:52 AM
Curley, re: Your comments below talk about 2 things that confuse me 
-  First, you wrote "plug with a liner and ground." Liner? What Liner 
are you referring to?   Also, you said "each of the 4 positions"  did 
you mean to say 5 positions?  When first reading your post I thought 
you were writing about the plug that goes to the 5 GPs.  Also, you 
asked about my Meter - it's a Fluke that retails for around $100 last 
I checked.  It should read the Ohms pretty precisely I hope.


Thanks!

LarryT

91 300D





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Curley McLain 
December 28, 2016 at 2:30 PM
Here is the entire old post.  Philip wrote most of it and I added a 
few clarifications.  It was for 240D, but is applicable.


I made one correction to Philip's post below.  What he said, plus a 
couple of clarifications.   Batter voltage should be battery voltage.


1.  240D GP fuse is NOT 20A.  It is 50 Amp.  You can find them at VW 
stealers if FLAPS does not have one for you.  5 cyl engines use a 
bigger one, 60 or 65 amp I think.   OM603 and 606 6 cyl use a 80 Amp 
fuse.  Be sure you get the right one.  6 Cyl fuse is 80 Amp 000 545 
03 34


2.  The GP relay can and does fail in at least 2 ways.  a: no light 
ever as someone said.  b: Light on as expected, but does not go out.


 To test:  Check voltage at battery, post to post, then each post of 
the GP fuse (to ground) in the relay.   If alles ist gut to that 
point, (~12V) then pull the big plug on the relay, and test within 10 
sec of turning the key on, voltage between each of the posts to ground


At this point you will know if you have a bad relay.  if voltage is 
at each end of the fuse, and you have tested the fuse, but there is 
no volts going to the GPs, then the relay is bad (or your testing 
procedure is faulty)  I like to take the fuse out to test it.  If it 
is bad but looks good, it will fall apart when you take it out.  
(Best to pull the battery ground when you do this, as there is always 
voltage to the GP fuse terminals, as was previously pointed out.


While you have the plug off, turn to the lowest ohm scale you have 
and test between each socket in the plug with a liner and ground.  
Each of the 4 positions should be 0.7 ohm.  .5 to 1.5 is acceptable.  
(1.2 to 1.4 ohms for pencil type)
Most meters won/t give you much definition at that low of a reading.  
$10 meters will show zero or near zero.  This is still good data.  if 
you have a cheap meter and it shows 0 ohms, you either have a good 
plug or a short to ground plug.  If you get infinity or anything 
higher than 1.7 ohm, you have a failing or open circuit plug.


3.  DONT EVER buy a champion glow plug, unless you plan to change it 
within 1hour to 1 year.  They don't last.  Buy Bosch or Beru.  The 
Bosch 10 digit number ends with 039.  It will be 0 250 xxx 039.  
Sorry, I forgot the numbers represented by the xxx.Beru is 
preferred as many Bosch are now chinese.


Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 1:56 PM
Thx Kaleb!




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 10:55 AM
Have been searching the net for 80a fuses and not having a lot of 
luck.  Is the dealer the only place to get them?  Seems like I could 
create a fuse holder to accept 80A fuses with wires to go to the 
screws that should work, right?  But I gotta find a 80A fuse (or 2 
for a spare).  Perhaos I am not using the ruight search description?


LarryT




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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

Many meters are not good enough at measuring low-ohms to reliably
troubleshoot glow plugs.  A Fluke, though, is good enough.  It's what I
use.  It's an easy test: if you short the probes together does it measure
exactly zero ohms, or nearly zero ohms?  The true answer is not exactly
zero.  (Unless you have a 4-wire Kelvin clip laboratory-grade system!)

Or, you can use the ammeter test, which is even better, but runs the risk
of blowing the ammeter (or its fuse, if it has one) if there is a dead
short.  The best test starts with a good ohmmeter, and if that passes you
can use the ammeter test to really be sure all is well.

The system is not all that hard to troubleshoot, it takes only a couple of
minutes with the right tools.  Divide.  Conquer.

There is not a common failure mode within the relay that will blow the big
fuse.  If it blows, look outside for trouble!

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes


Larry, let us know if this recap is correct:

no start (without excessive cranking.)

5 GPs changed with intake manifold off

no start

GP fuse found blown

GP fuse replaced

Was this fuse blown?

I believe you visually inspected the GP terminals, and non of the wire 
terminals were touching.  Is this correct?


measuring GP relay plug to ground shows 0.0 ohms for all 5 GPs

next steps:

1. with plug to GPs pulled off, turn on key and measure volts at all 5 
output pins on the relay nefore the relay times out.  (a helper to turn 
the key is good.)

2. check meter with known good GPs to get an average reading for good GPs
3. Post the model number of your fluke so someone can figure out its 
ability to read fractional ohms.


4.  If test #1 appears good (+12v at all 5 terminals) then proceed with 
Philip's ammeter test.


I would NOT bother taking the manifold off until these 4 steps have been 
completed.


For future reference, next time you do a manifold off GP replacement, 
start the car to test before you put the manifold back on.



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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes

More likely you have a meter that can't differentiate between 0 ohms and 
1 ohm.


But yes, it is possible to have all 5 GPs grounded.  not common at all, 
but possible


the most common source of grounding when new GPs have been installed is 
the terminal on the gp wire turning as the nut is tightened. Generally, 
the terminal needs to be held away from the intake manifold with a paint 
paddle stick  screwdriver, or if you can reach, your fingers.  You can 
see all the terminals with the manifold installed, but for some it is 
easier to see if you kneel on the radiator mount.   (pay homage to Herr 
Rudolf)



Larry Turner via Mercedes 
January 2, 2017 at 8:02 AM
*Please clarify the comments in red below.  Are you talking about the 
plug that attaches to the 5 prongs of the Relay and provides power to 
each GP?If so, I checked each 'socket' and it returned 0.0 
ohms.Is that telling me all 5 plugs are grounded either in the GP 
or the wiring?*


*Larry*




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Craig via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 5:44 PM
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 16:54:18 -0500 Larry Turner via Mercedes

You don't need to reach all the glow plugs with your multimeter, you can
check for shorts at the small plug which plugs into the glow plug relay.

1st things 1st, indeed!

The first thing, however, is measuring the resistances seen at the small
plug to ground.

Do not put the new relay in before you do that.


Craig

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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 3:54 PM
Thx Kaleb,

The relay in my 91 is a replacement,  I replaced it a couple years 
after I bought it.


Well, I have more fuses and a new relay so I plan to put the new relay 
in and see what happens.  Actually that's a easier procedure than 
trying to reach all those GPs with a MM.Worst case, I'll pull the 
fuel lines and take a closer look at the wiring harness.  1st things 
1st,  ;-)


Thanks for the help gang!

LarryT

91 300D




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 10:22 AM
What's the cut off for "New" vs "old"? or is it all 602 & 603?   I ask 
because the relay from the dealer for my '91 came with a fuse across 
the bottom.


Thx

Larry




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 29, 2016 at 7:51 AM
Thanks, I guess MB didn't issue one for the W124 602 engine?

LarryT

91 300D




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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes

that is the test.  NOW check your meter with known good plugs.  If it 
can't differentiate between known good plus and 0 ohms (leads together) 
you need a different meter, or to use Philips ammeter test.



Larry Turner via Mercedes 
January 2, 2017 at 7:36 AM
The Plug was disconnected from the Relay when I tested Resistance 
between the 5 socket plug and engine ground.


Thx!



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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes


I've done that before.  it is very dangerous on several accounts.

Philips in car test is better.  Use 12 ga (or 10 ga) wire to energize 
one pin position at a time.  the ammeter is better than having to remove 
the injectors and look in the hole.



Larry Turner via Mercedes 
January 2, 2017 at 7:27 AM
Hey Curley, This is a very definitive troubleshooting guide.  It's a 
keeper.


What do you think about me testing my old GPs with a old Battery?  
Actually I have 3 old 12v batteries not being used so any of them 
could be used.  My biggest concern is this test would make a GP glow 
red indicating (to me at least) the GP is good.  Is that a false 
assumption?


Thanks!

Larry




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Curley McLain 
December 26, 2016 at 9:21 AM
Basics:

0. put the charger on the battery to recharge/maintain it during a lot 
of cranking.


1.  Crack the fuel line(s) then crank to make sure you have fuel 
delivery.  About 720º degrees rotation  on the crank should be 
enough.  If you need to bleed the system, more cranking is needed.


2.  If fuel is being delivered to the nozzles, Then proceed to 
electrical checks


3.  Key on to glow position, check for 12V at each GP.  Be careful not 
to short the probe to ground.  You may need a couple of glow cycles to 
complete this.  A helper to turn the key to glow/off makes it easier.


4.  Pull off the cover from the GP relay, pull the plug to the GPs.  
If 0V on step 3, turn key go to glow and check for 12V on the relay at 
the terminals for the GP wires.  If 0V, replace fuses first, if 
present.  Otherwise, replace GP relay.
(a further test is possible to make sure the key is delivering juice 
to the relay to turn  on the relay.  Consult wiring diagram for this 
info)  If a fuse is present, it is generally a fuse problem.  if a new 
fuse does not fix it, and GP, GP wires are good, it is almost always a 
bad relay.


5.  If all used relay pins are delivering 12V to the wiring harness to 
the GPs, turn the multimeter to the lowest ohm reading you have. check 
meter for zero.  If you can't get 0, offet your reading by the static 
amount.  Check the used sockets in the plug on the GP harness between 
one socket and ground.  Book value is 1.4 ohms.  0 ohms is a open 
plug, replace it.  over 1.7 ohms os a bad plug, replace it, if you are 
sure your meter is reading correctly.  It takes a good meter to read 
1.4 ohms.   with a cheap ($10 HF) meter it is 0 or infinity, so if you 
get something near 0 ohms, you assume it is good; infinity indicates 
it is an open circuit, replace the plug.  GPs usually fail open.  A GP 
with say 2.4 ohms reading is on its way out and needs to be replaced.  
2.4 is about as high as I have seen.  I have seen meters that 
consistently read 1.7 on good or new GPs, so you have to learn  your 
meter's idiosyncrasies, unless you have a very expensive ($500+) meter.



You guys edit this to make this an all purpose troubleshooting formula 
for non start or slow start Diesels.


Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 26, 2016 at 8:42 AM
No. i probably didn't explain the chronology very well.

1,. Tried to start it - had to crank excessively to get it to finally 
start - .


2.  After excessive cranking it started running very rough - exactly 
like it would be when 1 or 2 GPs go dead..  (After your question about 
the dash light I recalled it being illuminated while the car was 
running.)


3. During this start up episode I noticed lots of white smoke from the 
exhaust pipe.


4 Since I had 5 new GPs on the shelf I jumped in to R the GP 
probably too quickly.


5 After replacing the GPs I tried to start it and it just cranked 
over.   Since I had removed the fuel lines to get access to the GPs, I 
failed to bleed them after re-installation.


6 My next step will be to bleed the air from the fuel lines then try 
to start it once more.


7. I will do the electrical tests suggested by Mitch to confirm my 
relay has died.  BTW, I checked the in line fuse just in case only to 
find it perfect.I think there's a fuse across the bottom of the 
relay but doubt it has gone bad.






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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 25, 2016 at 7:45 PM
That's a great idea! I remove the intake manifold when replacing GPs 
and forgot I need extra cranking to get rid of the air in the fuel 
lines. I R'd.   Can't believe I forgot spmething so basic!



Thx agn!

LarryT

Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes

in your GP wiring harness, the plug at the relay has six positions.  I 
believe only 5 are used.  the ones used are lined with a socket for the 
pins in the relay.  That is what I referred to as a liner in the socket 
of the plug.  I am not familiar with 5 cyl OM602.  I know on the 616, 
only 4 have sockets, on the 617, there are 5 sockets used.  On the 603, 
all six are used, so have sockets (liners) in the plug.



Larry Turner via Mercedes 
January 2, 2017 at 6:52 AM
Curley, re: Your comments below talk about 2 things that confuse me -  
First, you wrote "plug with a liner and ground." Liner? What Liner are 
you referring to?   Also, you said "each of the 4 positions"  did you 
mean to say 5 positions?  When first reading your post I thought you 
were writing about the plug that goes to the 5 GPs.  Also, you asked 
about my Meter - it's a Fluke that retails for around $100 last I 
checked.  It should read the Ohms pretty precisely I hope.


Thanks!

LarryT

91 300D





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Curley McLain 
December 28, 2016 at 2:30 PM
Here is the entire old post.  Philip wrote most of it and I  added a 
few clarifications.  It was for 240D, but is applicable.


I made one correction to Philip's post below.  What he said, plus a 
couple of clarifications.   Batter voltage should be battery voltage.


1.  240D GP fuse is NOT 20A.  It is 50 Amp.  You can find them at VW 
stealers if FLAPS does not have one for you.  5 cyl  engines use a 
bigger one, 60 or 65 amp I think.   OM603 and 606 6 cyl use a 80 Amp 
fuse.  Be sure you get the right one.  6 Cyl fuse is 80 Amp 000 545 03 34


2.  The GP relay can and does fail in at least 2 ways.  a: no light 
ever as someone said.  b: Light on as expected, but does not go out.


 To test:  Check voltage at battery, post to post, then each post of 
the GP fuse (to ground) in the relay.   If alles ist gut to that 
point, (~12V) then pull the big plug on the relay, and test within 10 
sec of turning the key on, voltage between each of the posts to ground


At this point you will know if you have a bad relay.  if voltage is at 
each end of the fuse, and you have tested the fuse, but there is no 
volts going to the GPs, then the relay is bad (or your testing 
procedure is faulty)  I like to take the fuse out to test it.  If it 
is bad but looks good, it will fall apart when you take it out.  (Best 
to pull the battery ground when you do this, as there is always 
voltage to the GP fuse terminals, as was previously pointed out.


While you have the plug off, turn to the lowest ohm scale you have and 
test between each socket in the plug with a liner and ground.  Each of 
the 4 positions should be 0.7 ohm.  .5 to 1.5 is acceptable.  (1.2 to 
1.4 ohms for pencil type)
Most meters won/t give you much definition at that low of a reading.  
$10 meters will show zero or near zero.  This is still good data.  if 
you have a cheap meter and it shows 0 ohms, you either have a good 
plug or a short to ground plug.  If you get infinity or anything 
higher than 1.7 ohm, you have a failing or open circuit plug.


3.  DONT EVER buy a champion glow plug, unless you plan to change it 
within 1hour to 1 year.  They don't last.  Buy Bosch or Beru.  The 
Bosch 10 digit number ends with 039.  It will be 0 250 xxx 039.  
Sorry, I forgot the numbers represented by the xxx.Beru is 
preferred as many Bosch are now chinese.


Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 1:56 PM
Thx Kaleb!




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 10:55 AM
Have been searching the net for 80a fuses and not having a lot of 
luck.  Is the dealer the only place to get them?  Seems like I could 
create a fuse holder to accept 80A fuses with wires to go to the 
screws that should work, right?  But I gotta find a 80A fuse (or 2 for 
a spare).  Perhaos I am not using the ruight search description?


LarryT




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Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 9:42 AM
80A.  They are aluminum, and flex with vibration and heat loading, and 
eventually fail.


Get two, put one in the glove box for the next time they fail..

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes

ANY GP WIRES THAT ARE GROUNDED ON THE MANIFOLD (most common problem) 
WON'T SHOW THE FAULT WITH THE MANIFOLD REMOVED.


Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
I plan to take the intake manifold off (as soon as I get a stubborn 
bolt out) and then I will inspect the wiring looking for possible shorts. 


When you have known good GPs, ( I used to always check new ones ) check 
them with the meter until you find a meter that will consistently show a 
difference between 0 ohms and .8 ohms or beteeen 0 and 1.2 ohms.  Once 
you find a meter that shows a difference, then you can check used ones 
in the engine with a ohm meter.


It is not so much what the reading is, so long as it is able to show a 
difference between 0 ohms and 1 ohms.  This was particularly true in the 
days of the analog meters.


If you post your fluke model number, perhaps someone can tell you its 
capability to differentiate between 0 and 1 ohm, assuming test leads are 
good.



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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes

*Please clarify the comments in red below.  Are you talking about the 
plug that attaches to the 5 prongs of the Relay and provides power to 
each GP?If so, I checked each 'socket' and it returned 0.0 ohms.
Is that telling me all 5 plugs are grounded either in the GP or the wiring?*


*Larry*


On 12/30/2016 6:44 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 16:54:18 -0500 Larry Turner via Mercedes
 wrote:


Well, I have more fuses and a new relay so I plan to put the new relay
in and see what happens.  Actually that's a easier procedure than
trying to reach all those GPs with a MM.Worst case, I'll pull the
fuel lines and take a closer look at the wiring harness.  1st things
1st,  ;-)

You don't need to reach all the glow plugs with your multimeter, you can
check for shorts at the small plug which plugs into the glow plug relay.

1st things 1st, indeed!

The first thing, however, is measuring the resistances seen at the small 
plug to ground.


Do not put the new relay in before you do that.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes

The Plug was disconnected from the Relay when I tested Resistance 
between the 5 socket plug and engine ground.


Thx!


On 01/01/2017 12:52 PM, MG via Mercedes wrote:

Depends on if you had the plug connected to the relay or not.

Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
OK, Have been thinking (always a bad thing) and it seems if I have 
0.0 Resistance to all 5 GPs. Using the 5 socket plug that is  To me 
that says the GPs are not grounded but it appears that means the new 
GP Relay is bad, correct?


Is that an appropriate assumption to make?  Are there other tests I 
should make?


Thanks!

LarryT

91 300D


On 12/31/2016 8:44 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
ok that is good that the fuse does not blow.  Sounds like I was 
wrong about a GP grounding.  do you have any way to check for 1.2 to 
1.7 ohms from the GP plug at the relay to ground?   Chances are that 
you still have a bad relay. If the GPs are plugged in and the fuse 
does not blow, then the relay is likely bad.  If #1 GP is bad or the 
relay is bad you won't get a light.


I don't remember if you said, are the new GPs Bosch?


A bad relay might indicate that the old GPs are still ok, or at 
least most of them may be ok.  Check the old GPs for 1.2 to 1.7 
ohms.  Keep the good ones.  If the reading is anything over 0.0 
ohms, chances are good that that GP is still good. When I change a 
set, I keep the good ones for replacing single GPs  With 2-6 diesels 
at various times, I can use up old GPs in something.  They last 
forever on the shelf.



Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 31, 2016 at 4:38 AM
Hey Curley,

OK, no more blown fuses - so I must not have any shorts. Does the 
light not coming on in the dash indicate one of my new GPs is bad?


Man, I am not looking forward to removing that intake manifold 
again.  But if I must so be it.  I now have 10 new and used GPs to 
work with. I will check the old ones for shorts or buy a new set if 
need be.


Thanks for your help!

LarryT




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 3:54 PM
Thx Kaleb,

The relay in my 91 is a replacement,  I replaced it a couple years 
after I bought it.


Well, I have more fuses and a new relay so I plan to put the new 
relay in and see what happens.  Actually that's a easier procedure 
than trying to reach all those GPs with a MM. Worst case, I'll pull 
the fuel lines and take a closer look at the wiring harness.  1st 
things 1st,  ;-)


Thanks for the help gang!

LarryT

91 300D




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 10:22 AM
What's the cut off for "New" vs "old"? or is it all 602 & 603?   I 
ask because the relay from the dealer for my '91 came with a fuse 
across the bottom.


Thx

Larry




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 29, 2016 at 7:51 AM
Thanks, I guess MB didn't issue one for the W124 602 engine?

LarryT

91 300D




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MG via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 4:07 PM
15-710



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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes

Hey Curley, This is a very definitive troubleshooting guide.  It's a 
keeper.


What do you think about me testing my old GPs with a old Battery?  
Actually I have 3 old 12v batteries not being used so any of them could 
be used.  My biggest concern is this test would make a GP glow red 
indicating (to me at least) the GP is good.  Is that a false assumption?


Thanks!

Larry


On 12/26/2016 10:21 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:

Basics:

0. put the charger on the battery to recharge/maintain it during a lot 
of cranking.


1.  Crack the fuel line(s) then crank to make sure you have fuel 
delivery.  About 720º degrees rotation  on the crank should be 
enough.  If you need to bleed the system, more cranking is needed.


2.  If fuel is being delivered to the nozzles, Then proceed to 
electrical checks


3.  Key on to glow position, check for 12V at each GP.  Be careful not 
to short the probe to ground.  You may need a couple of glow cycles to 
complete this.  A helper to turn the key to glow/off makes it easier.


4.  Pull off the cover from the GP relay, pull the plug to the GPs.  
If 0V on step 3, turn key go to glow and check for 12V on the relay at 
the terminals for the GP wires.  If 0V, replace fuses first, if 
present.  Otherwise, replace GP relay.
(a further test is possible to make sure the key is delivering juice 
to the relay to turn  on the relay.  Consult wiring diagram for this 
info)  If a fuse is present, it is generally a fuse problem.  if a new 
fuse does not fix it, and GP, GP wires are good, it is almost always a 
bad relay.


5.  If all used relay pins are delivering 12V to the wiring harness to 
the GPs, turn the multimeter to the lowest ohm reading you have. check 
meter for zero.  If you can't get 0, offet your reading by the static 
amount.  Check the used sockets in the plug on the GP harness between 
one socket and ground.  Book value is 1.4 ohms.  0 ohms is a open 
plug, replace it.  over 1.7 ohms os a bad plug, replace it, if you are 
sure your meter is reading correctly.  It takes a good meter to read 
1.4 ohms.   with a cheap ($10 HF) meter it is 0 or infinity, so if you 
get something near 0 ohms, you assume it is good; infinity indicates 
it is an open circuit, replace the plug.  GPs usually fail open.  A GP 
with say 2.4 ohms reading is on its way out and needs to be replaced.  
2.4 is about as high as I have seen.  I have seen meters that 
consistently read 1.7 on good or new GPs, so you have to learn your 
meter's idiosyncrasies, unless you have a very expensive ($500+) meter.



You guys edit this to make this an all purpose troubleshooting formula 
for non start or slow start Diesels.

Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 26, 2016 at 8:42 AM
No. i probably didn't explain the chronology very well.

1,. Tried to start it - had to crank excessively to get it to finally 
start - .


2.  After excessive cranking it started running very rough - exactly 
like it would be when 1 or 2 GPs go dead..  (After your question 
about the dash light I recalled it being illuminated while the car 
was running.)


3. During this start up episode I noticed lots of white smoke from 
the exhaust pipe.


4 Since I had 5 new GPs on the shelf I jumped in to R the GP 
probably too quickly.


5 After replacing the GPs I tried to start it and it just cranked 
over.   Since I had removed the fuel lines to get access to the GPs, 
I failed to bleed them after re-installation.


6 My next step will be to bleed the air from the fuel lines then try 
to start it once more.


7. I will do the electrical tests suggested by Mitch to confirm my 
relay has died.  BTW, I checked the in line fuse just in case only to 
find it perfect.I think there's a fuse across the bottom of the 
relay but doubt it has gone bad.





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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes

Curley, re: Your comments below talk about 2 things that confuse me -  
First, you wrote "plug with a liner and ground." Liner? What Liner are 
you referring to?   Also, you said "each of the 4 positions"  did you 
mean to say 5 positions?  When first reading your post I thought you 
were writing about the plug that goes to the 5 GPs.  Also, you asked 
about my Meter - it's a Fluke that retails for around $100 last I 
checked.  It should read the Ohms pretty precisely I hope.


Thanks!

LarryT

91 300D



On 12/28/2016 3:30 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
While you have the plug off, turn to the lowest ohm scale you have and 
test between each socket in the plug with a liner and ground. Each of 
the 4 positions should be 0.7 ohm. .5 to 1.5 is acceptable. (1.2 to 
1.4 ohms for pencil type)
Most meters won/t give you much definition at that low of a reading. 
$10 meters will show zero or near zero. This is still good data.


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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes

No, don't need the instructions again,.   I do need to find a Ammeter.   
I was hoping this problem would be behind me by now, but it looks like 
I'm going to need more troubleshooting tools.


BTW, all of my GPs are a mix of Bosch and Beru.  Since you said the 
Bosch are made in China I will go with Beru to be safe.


I plan to take the intake manifold off (as soon as I get a stubborn bolt 
out) and then I will inspect the wiring looking for possible shorts.


I would like to find a solid, *easy test t**o determine **if a GP is 
good or bad*.  I was wondering if I use a spare battery and attach the 
relay wire end to the positive terminal and the block threads to the 
negative end.  I know it would be dangerous as a good GP will produce 
over 1000F in a matter of seconds and quickly glow red.  But if I use my 
biggest pliers and welding gloves, I should be safe.  Would that be a 
reasonable way to determine if a GP is good/bad?  I will be happy to 
test them with my DMM if that's a sure-fire way to test them.   Testing 
the GPs in the engine is not easy because of all the obstacles in the 
way.  It appears MB designed the engine so the GP would be difficult to 
change or test.But that doesn't help us now.


Hopefully I will get the stubborn bolt loose this morning.  Then I will 
check the wiring.


Back to the GPs. Unless I hear something telling me "battery testing the 
GPs" is not an effective way to test GPs, I plan to test the GPs I 
removed to see what their condition is.


Yes, I will try to find a Ammeter,  (since I don't drive I can't just 
run down to a local store) and will also review your instructions.  I am 
sure you described it to be easy way to follow.


Thanks for all the help!

LarryT

91 300D


On 01/02/2017 4:01 AM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:

Fred wrote:



The cold resistance of GP's is very low and inexpensive meters
may not be able to discriminate between 0.0 ohms and 0.8 ohms
(or there abouts).


This is why I so prefer using an ammeter.  It is so much more
accurate - and it tests the source voltage, the wiring
connections, and the condition of the glow plugs.

Should I send the instructions again?

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-02 Thread fmiser via Mercedes


Fred wrote:



The cold resistance of GP's is very low and inexpensive meters
may not be able to discriminate between 0.0 ohms and 0.8 ohms
(or there abouts).


This is why I so prefer using an ammeter.  It is so much more
accurate - and it tests the source voltage, the wiring
connections, and the condition of the glow plugs.

Should I send the instructions again?

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-01 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes

I'll give it a try,
Thx
Larry

If your meter can reliably measure that resistance on a plug outside of the
engine then you've either got 5 bad plugs, a dead short in the wiring or you're
testing in the wrong place. Can you tape the lead from your meter to a stick to
test directly at the plug? If it still reads zero it's probably a bad plug. If
it's not zero your wiring has a dead short...

Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote: I dunno, I'm pretty well confused as it is. You'll have to work pretty

hard to further confuse me,

OK, No, i cannot reach the individual G.Ps.. I am using Bosch and GPs.
3 and 2 IIRC. I have removed everything but the manifold - a socket
head bolt is stripped making it hard to unscrew. Have tried using a
chisel and punch but it's not moving yet.

It sounds like my testing of resistance was a wasted effort. If unable
to remove the GPs, I doubt I can test them properly. My test gauges
are Fluke and a Innova. I tested the ones I removed and found settings
of 0.200 or so. But I really ought to test then again to refresh my
memory (or write the values down).

I'm sure I'll have more questions so you can further confuse me, ;-)

Thanks for helping

Larry

91 300D

On 01/01/2017 12:34 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:

Larry.

Are you measuring the wiring to each GP from the socket pins? If so then the
wiring is good.

If all 5 GP's are 0.0 ohms from the socket pin to ground then they have a very
low resistance to ground. This could be because of the limitations of your
meter or they are all shorted to ground, either internally or externally.

The cold resistance of GP's is very low and inexpensive meters may not be able
to discriminate between 0.0 ohms and 0.8 ohms (or there abouts).

Have you tested your meter on a loose GP to find out what the indicated resting
resistance is? This will give you a benchmark to measure the plugs installed in
your engine.

Q. What brand of glow plugs are currently installed?

If they are not Bosch or Beru they will have a short life. (no pun intended).

If you need to ask more questions I can confuse you to a much greater degree.

Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-01 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes

If your meter can reliably measure that resistance on a plug outside of the 
engine then you've either got 5 bad plugs, a dead short in the wiring or you're 
testing in the wrong place. Can you tape the lead from your meter to a stick to 
test directly at the plug? If it still reads zero it's probably a bad plug. If 
it's not zero your wiring has a dead short...

Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 

  On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Larry Turner via 
Mercedes wrote:   I dunno, I'm pretty well confused as 
it is.  You'll have to work pretty 
hard to further confuse me,

OK, No, i cannot reach the individual G.Ps..  I am using Bosch and GPs. 
3 and 2 IIRC.  I have removed everything but the manifold - a socket 
head bolt is stripped making it hard to unscrew.  Have tried using a 
chisel and punch but it's not moving yet.

It sounds like my testing of resistance was a wasted effort.  If unable 
to remove the GPs, I doubt I can test them properly.  My test gauges 
are  Fluke and a Innova.  I tested the ones I removed and found settings 
of 0.200 or so.  But I really ought to test then again to refresh my 
memory (or write the values down).

I'm sure I'll have more questions so you can further confuse me,  ;-)

Thanks for helping

Larry

91 300D

On 01/01/2017 12:34 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:
> Larry.
>
> Are you measuring the wiring to each GP from the socket pins? If so then the 
> wiring is good.
>
> If all 5 GP's are 0.0 ohms from the socket pin to ground then they have a 
> very low resistance to ground. This could be because of the limitations of 
> your meter or they are all shorted to ground, either internally or externally.
>
> The cold resistance of GP's is very low and inexpensive meters may not be 
> able to discriminate between 0.0 ohms and 0.8 ohms (or there abouts).
>
> Have you tested your meter on a loose GP to find out what the indicated 
> resting resistance is? This will give you a benchmark to measure the plugs 
> installed in your engine.
>
> Q. What brand of glow plugs are currently installed?
>
> If they are not Bosch or Beru they will have a short life. (no pun intended).
>
> If you need to ask more questions I can confuse you to a much greater degree.
>
>
> Fred Moir.
> Lynn MA.
> Diesel preferred.
>
>
> 

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-01 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes

I dunno, I'm pretty well confused as it is.  You'll have to work pretty 
hard to further confuse me,


OK, No, i cannot reach the individual G.Ps..   I am using Bosch and GPs. 
3 and 2 IIRC.   I have removed everything but the manifold - a socket 
head bolt is stripped making it hard to unscrew.  Have tried using a 
chisel and punch but it's not moving yet.


It sounds like my testing of resistance was a wasted effort.  If unable 
to remove the GPs, I doubt I can test them properly.  My test gauges 
are  Fluke and a Innova.  I tested the ones I removed and found settings 
of 0.200 or so.  But I really ought to test then again to refresh my 
memory (or write the values down).


I'm sure I'll have more questions so you can further confuse me,  ;-)

Thanks for helping

Larry

91 300D


On 01/01/2017 12:34 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:

Larry.

Are you measuring the wiring to each GP from the socket pins? If so then the 
wiring is good.

If all 5 GP's are 0.0 ohms from the socket pin to ground then they have a very 
low resistance to ground. This could be because of the limitations of your 
meter or they are all shorted to ground, either internally or externally.

The cold resistance of GP's is very low and inexpensive meters may not be able 
to discriminate between 0.0 ohms and 0.8 ohms (or there abouts).

Have you tested your meter on a loose GP to find out what the indicated resting 
resistance is? This will give you a benchmark to measure the plugs installed in 
your engine.

Q. What brand of glow plugs are currently installed?

If they are not Bosch or Beru they will have a short life. (no pun intended).

If you need to ask more questions I can confuse you to a much greater degree.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Larry Turner via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Sent: 01 January 2017 12:11
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Larry Turner
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

OK, Have been thinking (always a bad thing) and it seems if I have 0.0
Resistance to all 5 GPs. Using the 5 socket plug that is  To me that
says the GPs are not grounded but it appears that means the new GP Relay
is bad, correct?

Is that an appropriate assumption to make?  Are there other tests I
should make?

Thanks!

LarryT

91 300D


On 12/31/2016 8:44 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:

ok that is good that the fuse does not blow.  Sounds like I was wrong
about a GP grounding.  do you have any way to check for 1.2 to 1.7
ohms from the GP plug at the relay to ground?   Chances are that you
still have a bad relay. If the GPs are plugged in and the fuse does
not blow, then the relay is likely bad.  If #1 GP is bad or the relay
is bad you won't get a light.

I don't remember if you said, are the new GPs Bosch?


A bad relay might indicate that the old GPs are still ok, or at least
most of them may be ok.  Check the old GPs for 1.2 to 1.7 ohms.  Keep
the good ones.  If the reading is anything over 0.0 ohms, chances are
good that that GP is still good.  When I change a set, I keep the good
ones for replacing single GPs  With 2-6 diesels at various times, I
can use up old GPs in something.  They last forever on the shelf.


Larry Turner via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
December 31, 2016 at 4:38 AM
Hey Curley,

OK, no more blown fuses - so I must not have any shorts.   Does the
light not coming on in the dash indicate one of my new GPs is bad?

Man, I am not looking forward to removing that intake manifold
again.  But if I must so be it.  I now have 10 new and used GPs to
work with. I will check the old ones for shorts or buy a new set if
need be.

Thanks for your help!

LarryT




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Larry Turner via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
December 30, 2016 at 3:54 PM
Thx Kaleb,

The relay in my 91 is a replacement,  I replaced it a couple years
after I bought it.

Well, I have more fuses and a new relay so I plan to put the new
relay in and see what happens.  Actually that's a easier procedure
than trying to reach all those GPs with a MM.Worst case, I'll
pull the fuel lines and take a closer look at the wiring harness.
1st things 1st,  ;-)

Thanks for the help gang!

LarryT

91 300D




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Larry Turner via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
December 30, 2016 at 10:22 AM
What's the cut off for "New" vs "old"? or is it all 602 & 603?   I
ask because the relay from the dealer for

Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-01 Thread MG via Mercedes


Depends on if you had the plug connected to the relay or not.

Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
OK, Have been thinking (always a bad thing) and it seems if I have 0.0 
Resistance to all 5 GPs. Using the 5 socket plug that is  To me that 
says the GPs are not grounded but it appears that means the new GP Relay 
is bad, correct?


Is that an appropriate assumption to make?  Are there other tests I 
should make?


Thanks!

LarryT

91 300D


On 12/31/2016 8:44 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
ok that is good that the fuse does not blow.  Sounds like I was wrong 
about a GP grounding.  do you have any way to check for 1.2 to 1.7 
ohms from the GP plug at the relay to ground?   Chances are that you 
still have a bad relay. If the GPs are plugged in and the fuse does 
not blow, then the relay is likely bad.  If #1 GP is bad or the relay 
is bad you won't get a light.


I don't remember if you said, are the new GPs Bosch?


A bad relay might indicate that the old GPs are still ok, or at least 
most of them may be ok.  Check the old GPs for 1.2 to 1.7 ohms.  Keep 
the good ones.  If the reading is anything over 0.0 ohms, chances are 
good that that GP is still good.  When I change a set, I keep the good 
ones for replacing single GPs  With 2-6 diesels at various times, I 
can use up old GPs in something.  They last forever on the shelf.



Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 31, 2016 at 4:38 AM
Hey Curley,

OK, no more blown fuses - so I must not have any shorts.   Does the 
light not coming on in the dash indicate one of my new GPs is bad?


Man, I am not looking forward to removing that intake manifold 
again.  But if I must so be it.  I now have 10 new and used GPs to 
work with. I will check the old ones for shorts or buy a new set if 
need be.


Thanks for your help!

LarryT




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 3:54 PM
Thx Kaleb,

The relay in my 91 is a replacement,  I replaced it a couple years 
after I bought it.


Well, I have more fuses and a new relay so I plan to put the new 
relay in and see what happens.  Actually that's a easier procedure 
than trying to reach all those GPs with a MM.Worst case, I'll 
pull the fuel lines and take a closer look at the wiring harness.  
1st things 1st,  ;-)


Thanks for the help gang!

LarryT

91 300D




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 10:22 AM
What's the cut off for "New" vs "old"? or is it all 602 & 603?   I 
ask because the relay from the dealer for my '91 came with a fuse 
across the bottom.


Thx

Larry




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 29, 2016 at 7:51 AM
Thanks, I guess MB didn't issue one for the W124 602 engine?

LarryT

91 300D




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MG via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 4:07 PM
15-710



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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-01 Thread Fred Moir via Mercedes

Larry.

Are you measuring the wiring to each GP from the socket pins? If so then the 
wiring is good.

If all 5 GP's are 0.0 ohms from the socket pin to ground then they have a very 
low resistance to ground. This could be because of the limitations of your 
meter or they are all shorted to ground, either internally or externally.

The cold resistance of GP's is very low and inexpensive meters may not be able 
to discriminate between 0.0 ohms and 0.8 ohms (or there abouts).

Have you tested your meter on a loose GP to find out what the indicated resting 
resistance is? This will give you a benchmark to measure the plugs installed in 
your engine.

Q. What brand of glow plugs are currently installed?

If they are not Bosch or Beru they will have a short life. (no pun intended).

If you need to ask more questions I can confuse you to a much greater degree.

Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.

From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Larry Turner via 
Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Sent: 01 January 2017 12:11
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Larry Turner
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

OK, Have been thinking (always a bad thing) and it seems if I have 0.0
Resistance to all 5 GPs. Using the 5 socket plug that is  To me that
says the GPs are not grounded but it appears that means the new GP Relay
is bad, correct?

Is that an appropriate assumption to make?  Are there other tests I
should make?

Thanks!

LarryT

91 300D

On 12/31/2016 8:44 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
> ok that is good that the fuse does not blow.  Sounds like I was wrong
> about a GP grounding.  do you have any way to check for 1.2 to 1.7
> ohms from the GP plug at the relay to ground?   Chances are that you
> still have a bad relay. If the GPs are plugged in and the fuse does
> not blow, then the relay is likely bad.  If #1 GP is bad or the relay
> is bad you won't get a light.
>
> I don't remember if you said, are the new GPs Bosch?
>
>
> A bad relay might indicate that the old GPs are still ok, or at least
> most of them may be ok.  Check the old GPs for 1.2 to 1.7 ohms.  Keep
> the good ones.  If the reading is anything over 0.0 ohms, chances are
> good that that GP is still good.  When I change a set, I keep the good
> ones for replacing single GPs  With 2-6 diesels at various times, I
> can use up old GPs in something.  They last forever on the shelf.
>
>> Larry Turner via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> December 31, 2016 at 4:38 AM
>> Hey Curley,
>>
>> OK, no more blown fuses - so I must not have any shorts.   Does the
>> light not coming on in the dash indicate one of my new GPs is bad?
>>
>> Man, I am not looking forward to removing that intake manifold
>> again.  But if I must so be it.  I now have 10 new and used GPs to
>> work with. I will check the old ones for shorts or buy a new set if
>> need be.
>>
>> Thanks for your help!
>>
>> LarryT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> Larry Turner via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> December 30, 2016 at 3:54 PM
>> Thx Kaleb,
>>
>> The relay in my 91 is a replacement,  I replaced it a couple years
>> after I bought it.
>>
>> Well, I have more fuses and a new relay so I plan to put the new
>> relay in and see what happens.  Actually that's a easier procedure
>> than trying to reach all those GPs with a MM.Worst case, I'll
>> pull the fuel lines and take a closer look at the wiring harness.
>> 1st things 1st,  ;-)
>>
>> Thanks for the help gang!
>>
>> LarryT
>>
>> 91 300D
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> Larry Turner via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> December 30, 2016 at 10:22 AM
>> What's the cut off for "New" vs "old"? or is it all 602 & 603?   I
>> ask because the relay from the dealer for my '91 came with a fuse
>> across the bottom.
>>
>> Thx
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search l

Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2017-01-01 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes

OK, Have been thinking (always a bad thing) and it seems if I have 0.0 
Resistance to all 5 GPs. Using the 5 socket plug that is  To me that 
says the GPs are not grounded but it appears that means the new GP Relay 
is bad, correct?


Is that an appropriate assumption to make?  Are there other tests I 
should make?


Thanks!

LarryT

91 300D


On 12/31/2016 8:44 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
ok that is good that the fuse does not blow.  Sounds like I was wrong 
about a GP grounding.  do you have any way to check for 1.2 to 1.7 
ohms from the GP plug at the relay to ground?   Chances are that you 
still have a bad relay. If the GPs are plugged in and the fuse does 
not blow, then the relay is likely bad.  If #1 GP is bad or the relay 
is bad you won't get a light.


I don't remember if you said, are the new GPs Bosch?


A bad relay might indicate that the old GPs are still ok, or at least 
most of them may be ok.  Check the old GPs for 1.2 to 1.7 ohms.  Keep 
the good ones.  If the reading is anything over 0.0 ohms, chances are 
good that that GP is still good.  When I change a set, I keep the good 
ones for replacing single GPs  With 2-6 diesels at various times, I 
can use up old GPs in something.  They last forever on the shelf.



Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 31, 2016 at 4:38 AM
Hey Curley,

OK, no more blown fuses - so I must not have any shorts.   Does the 
light not coming on in the dash indicate one of my new GPs is bad?


Man, I am not looking forward to removing that intake manifold 
again.  But if I must so be it.  I now have 10 new and used GPs to 
work with. I will check the old ones for shorts or buy a new set if 
need be.


Thanks for your help!

LarryT




___
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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 3:54 PM
Thx Kaleb,

The relay in my 91 is a replacement,  I replaced it a couple years 
after I bought it.


Well, I have more fuses and a new relay so I plan to put the new 
relay in and see what happens.  Actually that's a easier procedure 
than trying to reach all those GPs with a MM.Worst case, I'll 
pull the fuel lines and take a closer look at the wiring harness.  
1st things 1st,  ;-)


Thanks for the help gang!

LarryT

91 300D




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 10:22 AM
What's the cut off for "New" vs "old"? or is it all 602 & 603?   I 
ask because the relay from the dealer for my '91 came with a fuse 
across the bottom.


Thx

Larry




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 29, 2016 at 7:51 AM
Thanks, I guess MB didn't issue one for the W124 602 engine?

LarryT

91 300D




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MG via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 4:07 PM
15-710



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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2016-12-31 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes

If the relay is good and clicking on and off and the light does not come 
on that indicates you have at least 2 bad plugs.



On 12/31/2016 4:38 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:

Hey Curley,

OK, no more blown fuses - so I must not have any shorts.   Does the 
light not coming on in the dash indicate one of my new GPs is bad?


Man, I am not looking forward to removing that intake manifold again.  
But if I must so be it.  I now have 10 new and used GPs to work with. 
I will check the old ones for shorts or buy a new set if need be.


Thanks for your help!

LarryT


On 12/30/2016 9:08 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
The result will be the same, blown fuse. You have to get the gp wire 
that is touching the manifold clear of the manifold.  (It could be 
more than one wire!



Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 3:54 PM
Thx Kaleb,

The relay in my 91 is a replacement,  I replaced it a couple years 
after I bought it.


Well, I have more fuses and a new relay so I plan to put the new 
relay in and see what happens.  Actually that's a easier procedure 
than trying to reach all those GPs with a MM. Worst case, I'll pull 
the fuel lines and take a closer look at the wiring harness.  1st 
things 1st,  ;-)


Thanks for the help gang!

LarryT

91 300D




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 10:22 AM
What's the cut off for "New" vs "old"? or is it all 602 & 603?   I 
ask because the relay from the dealer for my '91 came with a fuse 
across the bottom.


Thx

Larry




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 29, 2016 at 7:51 AM
Thanks, I guess MB didn't issue one for the W124 602 engine?

LarryT

91 300D




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MG via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 4:07 PM
15-710



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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 3:36 PM
You wrote: "...a strip fuse?  Just the metal strip screwed to 
terminals at each end?  Last ones... "


Yep, that describes it perfectly. But once blown, there's just a 
couple of alum. rings with a melted ear on it.  ;-)


I have one in my tool box with 30A on it.  Don't want to put one too 
small in.  Also, if I don't know what caused it in the 1st place 
I'll be in the same boat again!


Anyone know what page in the WSM covers the relay?  $1.50 sounds 
like a great price.  I found relays from $220 to $120 so $1.50 
sounds /really /good!  ;-)


So we are agreed I need  a 60A fuse?  I am assuming the parts 
counter man will know what I need.


LarryT



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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2016-12-31 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes

ok that is good that the fuse does not blow.  Sounds like I was wrong 
about a GP grounding.  do you have any way to check for 1.2 to 1.7 ohms 
from the GP plug at the relay to ground?   Chances are that you still 
have a bad relay. If the GPs are plugged in and the fuse does not blow, 
then the relay is likely bad.  If #1 GP is bad or the relay is bad you 
won't get a light.


I don't remember if you said, are the new GPs Bosch?


A bad relay might indicate that the old GPs are still ok, or at least 
most of them may be ok.  Check the old GPs for 1.2 to 1.7 ohms.  Keep 
the good ones.  If the reading is anything over 0.0 ohms, chances are 
good that that GP is still good.  When I change a set, I keep the good 
ones for replacing single GPs  With 2-6 diesels at various times, I can 
use up old GPs in something.  They last forever on the shelf.



Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 31, 2016 at 4:38 AM
Hey Curley,

OK, no more blown fuses - so I must not have any shorts.   Does the 
light not coming on in the dash indicate one of my new GPs is bad?


Man, I am not looking forward to removing that intake manifold again.  
But if I must so be it.  I now have 10 new and used GPs to work with. 
I will check the old ones for shorts or buy a new set if need be.


Thanks for your help!

LarryT




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 3:54 PM
Thx Kaleb,

The relay in my 91 is a replacement,  I replaced it a couple years 
after I bought it.


Well, I have more fuses and a new relay so I plan to put the new relay 
in and see what happens.  Actually that's a easier procedure than 
trying to reach all those GPs with a MM.Worst case, I'll pull the 
fuel lines and take a closer look at the wiring harness.  1st things 
1st,  ;-)


Thanks for the help gang!

LarryT

91 300D




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 10:22 AM
What's the cut off for "New" vs "old"? or is it all 602 & 603?   I ask 
because the relay from the dealer for my '91 came with a fuse across 
the bottom.


Thx

Larry




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 29, 2016 at 7:51 AM
Thanks, I guess MB didn't issue one for the W124 602 engine?

LarryT

91 300D




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MG via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 4:07 PM
15-710



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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2016-12-31 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes


Hey Curley,

OK, no more blown fuses - so I must not have any shorts.   Does the 
light not coming on in the dash indicate one of my new GPs is bad?


Man, I am not looking forward to removing that intake manifold again.  
But if I must so be it.  I now have 10 new and used GPs to work with. I 
will check the old ones for shorts or buy a new set if need be.


Thanks for your help!

LarryT


On 12/30/2016 9:08 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
The result will be the same, blown fuse.  You have to get the gp wire 
that is touching the manifold clear of the manifold.  (It could be 
more than one wire!



Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 3:54 PM
Thx Kaleb,

The relay in my 91 is a replacement,  I replaced it a couple years 
after I bought it.


Well, I have more fuses and a new relay so I plan to put the new 
relay in and see what happens.  Actually that's a easier procedure 
than trying to reach all those GPs with a MM.Worst case, I'll 
pull the fuel lines and take a closer look at the wiring harness.  
1st things 1st,  ;-)


Thanks for the help gang!

LarryT

91 300D




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 10:22 AM
What's the cut off for "New" vs "old"? or is it all 602 & 603?   I 
ask because the relay from the dealer for my '91 came with a fuse 
across the bottom.


Thx

Larry




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 29, 2016 at 7:51 AM
Thanks, I guess MB didn't issue one for the W124 602 engine?

LarryT

91 300D




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MG via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 4:07 PM
15-710



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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 3:36 PM
You wrote: "...a strip fuse?  Just the metal strip screwed to 
terminals at each end?  Last ones... "


Yep, that describes it perfectly. But once blown, there's just a 
couple of alum. rings with a melted ear on it.  ;-)


I have one in my tool box with 30A on it.  Don't want to put one too 
small in.  Also, if I don't know what caused it in the 1st place I'll 
be in the same boat again!


Anyone know what page in the WSM covers the relay?  $1.50 sounds like 
a great price.  I found relays from $220 to $120 so $1.50 sounds 
/really /good!  ;-)


So we are agreed I need  a 60A fuse?  I am assuming the parts counter 
man will know what I need.


LarryT



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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2016-12-30 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes

The result will be the same, blown fuse.  You have to get the gp wire 
that is touching the manifold clear of the manifold.  (It could be more 
than one wire!



Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 3:54 PM
Thx Kaleb,

The relay in my 91 is a replacement,  I replaced it a couple years 
after I bought it.


Well, I have more fuses and a new relay so I plan to put the new relay 
in and see what happens.  Actually that's a easier procedure than 
trying to reach all those GPs with a MM.Worst case, I'll pull the 
fuel lines and take a closer look at the wiring harness.  1st things 
1st,  ;-)


Thanks for the help gang!

LarryT

91 300D




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 30, 2016 at 10:22 AM
What's the cut off for "New" vs "old"? or is it all 602 & 603?   I ask 
because the relay from the dealer for my '91 came with a fuse across 
the bottom.


Thx

Larry




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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 29, 2016 at 7:51 AM
Thanks, I guess MB didn't issue one for the W124 602 engine?

LarryT

91 300D




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MG via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 4:07 PM
15-710



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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 3:36 PM
You wrote: "...a strip fuse?  Just the metal strip screwed to 
terminals at each end?  Last ones... "


Yep, that describes it perfectly. But once blown, there's just a 
couple of alum. rings with a melted ear on it.  ;-)


I have one in my tool box with 30A on it.  Don't want to put one too 
small in.  Also, if I don't know what caused it in the 1st place I'll 
be in the same boat again!


Anyone know what page in the WSM covers the relay?  $1.50 sounds like 
a great price.  I found relays from $220 to $120 so $1.50 sounds 
/really /good!  ;-)


So we are agreed I need  a 60A fuse?  I am assuming the parts counter 
man will know what I need.


LarryT



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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2016-12-30 Thread Craig via Mercedes

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 20:09:38 -0500 Larry Turner via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Hi Craig,   I seem to have moved ahead before I read your posting. 
> Sorry.  When you say "Small" end of the harness are you describing the 
> end that plugs into the relay?

Yes.

Phillip has good advice, too.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2016-12-30 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes

Hi Craig,   I seem to have moved ahead before I read your posting. 
Sorry.  When you say "Small" end of the harness are you describing the 
end that plugs into the relay?


Larry


On 12/30/2016 6:44 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 16:54:18 -0500 Larry Turner via Mercedes
 wrote:Hi Craig,,


Well, I have more fuses and a new relay so I plan to put the new relay
in and see what happens.  Actually that's a easier procedure than
trying to reach all those GPs with a MM.Worst case, I'll pull the
fuel lines and take a closer look at the wiring harness.  1st things
1st,  ;-)

You don't need to reach all the glow plugs with your multimeter, you can
check for shorts at the small plug which plugs into the glow plug relay.

1st things 1st, indeed!

The first thing, however, is measuring the resistances seen at the small
plug to ground.

Do not put the new relay in before you do that.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2016-12-30 Thread Larry Turner via Mercedes

We have gotten to the point where the fuses are not blowing.  Everything 
is installed as it should be and it tried to start when we were cranking 
it to bleed the fuel lines.  But the final line was bubbling and we 
stopped cranking.


I haven't gone farther just yet but thought I'd see what ya'll think 
might be the problem with the light?  Don;t know why this stiff is so 
complex?!  It's just a diesel after-all!


I thought perhaps the pre-glow light may have blown but that seems like 
too much of a complication.


One things for sure, the engine heater works like a charm!   I plugged 
the engine heater in for 4-5 hours and the cam cover felt like it was 
around 100F!!  I have aI guess it's possible it works too good?  
Anyone know what temp it should be when fully warmed?


Anyway, the dash light is not coming on like it should.  Time to search 
the wiring diagrams.  The fun never ends...


LarryT

91 300D



On 12/30/2016 7:06 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:

Larry wrote:



Well, I have more fuses and a new relay so I plan to put the new
relay in and see what happens.  Actually that's a easier
procedure than trying to reach all those GPs with a MM.Worst
case, I'll pull the fuel lines and take a closer look at the
wiring harness.  1st things 1st,  ;-)


1st try unplugging the glow plugs from the relay.

If the fuse blows - it's the relay.  If not - it is very, very, very 
unlikely that doing anything to the relay will have any effect.


The rule of thumb in troubleshooting is - divide and test.  Ideal
is to pick a spot half way through the flow of the system.  Then
test for the problem on each half.  Repeat the divide and test on
the half with a problem - and so on.

In your case, the system ("downstream" from the fuse)
 relay -> glowplug-wires -> glowplugs.

If the glowplugs connect to the relay with a big connector like on
a 123, it's super easy to unplug and have the relay separate from
the wires->plugs.

Then, again presuming a connector like on the 123, each glow plug
and wire has it's own contact on the connector.  Test each one -
then you'll know _which_ wire->plug is the culprit and can save a
lot of time looking for trouble where there isn't any.

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Re: [MBZ] HELP!! My '91 300D is Not Starting

2016-12-30 Thread fmiser via Mercedes


Larry wrote:



Well, I have more fuses and a new relay so I plan to put the new
relay in and see what happens.  Actually that's a easier
procedure than trying to reach all those GPs with a MM.Worst
case, I'll pull the fuel lines and take a closer look at the
wiring harness.  1st things 1st,  ;-)


1st try unplugging the glow plugs from the relay.

If the fuse blows - it's the relay.  If not - it is very, very, very 
unlikely that doing anything to the relay will have any effect.


The rule of thumb in troubleshooting is - divide and test.  Ideal
is to pick a spot half way through the flow of the system.  Then
test for the problem on each half.  Repeat the divide and test on
the half with a problem - and so on.

In your case, the system ("downstream" from the fuse)
 relay -> glowplug-wires -> glowplugs.

If the glowplugs connect to the relay with a big connector like on
a 123, it's super easy to unplug and have the relay separate from
the wires->plugs.

Then, again presuming a connector like on the 123, each glow plug
and wire has it's own contact on the connector.  Test each one -
then you'll know _which_ wire->plug is the culprit and can save a
lot of time looking for trouble where there isn't any.

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