RE: It's Still Stealing
Actually, it isn't illegal to copy something from TV or the radio to listen to or watch later. The US Supreme Court ruled that time shifting is covered under fair use. Note that this decision didn't cover creating libraries of material, using it to share with others or making copies. I agree that there's a distinction between what's wrong and what's illegal, but just because you feel something isn't wrong doesn't mean it isn't illegal. I try to avoid what's right and wrong on these mailing lists and just answer the question of legality. I think each person has to decide what is right and what is wrong for themselves. I agree that RIAA is fighting a losing battle and needs to change their ways. You talk about how much money the music publishers take, and I agree it doesn't seem fair. However, there are musicians who sign with these record companies and they deserve to be paid for their work. Just because they sign with a record company doesn't mean they deserve to have their work stolen. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:17 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing I've said it before, but it deserves to be said again. Just because it's illegal does not, under any circumstances, mean it's wrong. It just means that the RIAA and MPAA have been successful in lobbying governments to give them more money. In actuality, if you want to stick with the list of things that aren't likely to be challenged in court, it is still illegal for you to tape something off the radio, or off your TV. Television programs, particularly live broadcasts, make it a point of pointing that out on at least one occasion during the broadcast. Do people still do it? Of course. Will it be challenged? Probably not. Would the MPAA throw every single person who's done it in jail if they thought they had a remote chance of getting away with it? In a heartbeat. Same with the RIAA. Why do you think you're not allowed to bring a video camera into a movie theater? It may only be for personal use, but it's still illegal. And in that case, people have actually been arrested for piracy as a result of it. Heck, Warner Brothers just got finnished suing a talk show because the 30-second clips of music that show played were supposedly not paid for, and the show was effectively branded an advocate of piracy in court. Now, I'm not sure if the suit actually got anywhere, but the point is, it's a 30-second music clip. 30 whole seconds. And the RIAA was up in arms because it wasn't paid for. Keeping in mind that, even had it been paid for, the artists responsible for those clips probably wouldn't see nearly half of the payment anyway. In another instance, a band posted a video of one of its songs on Youtube, hoping that people would take that video, post it on other websites, get more people to watch it, which would translate to more money for them in the long run. The band was Okay Go. Once the RIAA caught wind of it, they forced Youtube to shut down the video. When the video was finally brought back, the ability to post it on any website that wasn't Youtube was removed, and it came with advertisements that delivered a kickback to the RIAA. Shortly thereafter, the band pretty much informed the RIAA where they could put their advertisements. There are a ton and a half more situations like this, where it's not about what's legal but rather about more money for the RIAA and the MPAA. Most of today's musicians probably don't care how their music gets listened to, so long as it translates into more money for them. And, since they make most of their money from performances and other items that aren't necessarily CD's, they're not losing very significant funds if someone decides not to pay the $20 for an album when they only like one song from it. Especially if they're more likely to pay $50 for a concert ticket, most if not all of which goes right into the band's pocket rather than the record lable anyway. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: April 18, 2010 6:18 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing A few points. Copying someone else's CD's is illegal. If someone gives you a CD then that is not illegal. It's my understanding that sometimes special CD's can be distributed to broadcasters with the agreement that they not be redistributed. I obviously have no idea if that's what's going on in this case. Copying something you purchased or owned for your own personal use is not illegal, although there's some grey area here, it's generally assumed that no one will challenge the fair use laws. Making analog copies of material broadcast on TV or radio has always been permitted, but again, this is for your own personal use and not to be
RE: It's Still Stealing
The reason in my mind is that you are signing up for a service provided by the US government. This service is free of charge, and you are agreeing to it's terms when you sign up for it. The law enabling this service aims to provide material free to the blind while protecting the rights of the publishers. This program is intended for all blind citizens of the US and not just those with PC's. This is not a business or profit making venture, but is paid for by tax dollars, of which I'm a tax payer. Your analogies to Sony and Apple just don't apply. Even though we have the luxury of keeping the books around and playing them on multiple players, it doesn't change the fact that this is a library, and we're borrowing these books. BTW, there is no way to listen to these books on a PC. You need a player provided for free by the NLS or you can purchase several different book players. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:48 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Kevin, the point is this. Why should you, after obtaining the NLS books, have to go and get one of the NLS approved players just to enjoy the privelege of being able to listen to the book while not at the computer? That would be like Soni putting out an album with copy protection that limitted what you could play it on to CD players manufactured by Soni. Soni already tried the whole copy protection to prevent people from putting the contents of CD's on their computers, or copying them to other CD's. A pretty high-profile lawsuit later, they don't do that anymore. Apple tried to say you could only put music you purchased from iTunes on your iPod. You couldn't burn that to CD, or play it in anything else that wasn't either your iPod or iTunes. Specificly, the version of iTunes on the computer to which it was downloaded. Without getting into the nitty gritty details, let's just say they don't do that anymore either. The same applies to NLS. The only reason it hasn't changed yet is because there's no reason for them to, according to them. Hence, people will continue to break the copy protection anyway. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Minor Sent: April 18, 2010 6:02 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Hi John and list. I'm going to comment on several messages that I've seen on this topic. First, John, I wonder if your direct boss is the owner of the station. If he is, the station may get into trouble if publishers find out he is allowing material sent to the station is being copied. This material is specificly for the use of the station. In fact, I'm not sure if the owner of the CD actually owns the music. With software, you are licensed to use the software. You don't own the copy you use, you just have a license for it. I'm not blaming you for copying the CD's. Just be aware that the station could be in legal trouble if investigated. As for using VCR's or tape recorders, this has been a debate that the publishers of material have had with people for years. I don't know the legal wording, but I believe that courts have ruled that so long as you use the material you obtain from over the air, you have the right to use it for your own private use. This also holds for albums you buy. If you decide to make a compilation CD for a friend, technicly you're breaking the law. I'm guilty of doing this myself. I'm not getting anything for what I do either, but that doesn't make what I do legal. As for recording material over a computer, there has been a product cease production precisely because of this, and it made many blind people mad. XM had a great device called a PCR. You'd hook the antenna to it, run a cable from it to either the line in jack of your sound card or stereo, and hook it up to your computer with a USB cable. The software that came with it displayed the channel you were on, as well as the title and artist of the song being played. Unfortunately, someone figured out how to convert the audio into labeled mp3 files. I say unfortunately, because the RIAA learned about this and threated to sue XM. The product no longer was made. I did get lucky and purchased one of these. It's not the most accessible piece of equipment with a screen reader, but you can view the title of the song that is being played, as well as easily switch channels by entering their number. Now for my comments on BARD, which I'll call NLS. First, it's not true that you have to buy a player to listen to NLS books. Your local library can provide you with a free player to play this content. It not only plays NLS content, but mp3 files, as well as some other standard audio file formats. It's true that you can't play things like books from Audible, but you
Re: Are any apple MP 3 players blind accessible?
yes, I'm asking this. A presto, Mario Loreti Speaker pubblicitario e radiofonico - www.marioloreti.net - To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro
Everything about Mac sounds good, especially with the Voiceover! But if I go that way, I'll have to learn a new system all over again! Does Mac seem easier or harder to learn than Windows? I know that it'll be different. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:14 AM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro not only that but I have yet to find a mac screen reader radio automation software fore that platform - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 5:06 PM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Flip For Mac is the replacement for Windows Media Play for the Mac, Microsoft recommend it for all the most up-to-date WMA audio/video features, its a third party product - in other words not developped by Microsoft and is updated regularly. The player - which integrates with Quicktime - is available free, other tools such as Video capturing etc you have to pay for but the prices are fairly reasonable. On 18/04/2010, at 10:03 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Dain, I done this in 2007. I think Microsoft still has it upon their website, but you'll have to do some digging in order to find it. You said something about Flip working well with Quick Time. What is Flip? John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 4:31 PM Subject: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Well I don't know how you're going to go with Windows Media Player for the Mac as - from what I understand - it was discontinued for the Mac quite some time ago, you use Flip For Mac instead which integrates with Quicktime. On 18/04/2010, at 4:49 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Hank, I only keep track of the music that we play at the radio station. If I hear something I like, I will either save it as a wave file and or a flack file and copy it to a flash drive just so that I can take it home with me. My computer in my office, has Quick Time on it, which is more easier to use on a Mack then it is to use on a pc. They don't know this, but I downloaded Windows Media Player for Macks and installed it on that computer. But if you're asking about the computer in the control room, that one is running the Linux system. But they're looking to switch that one out for a Mack system. The reason for this is, coming by a screen reader that will work with the Linux system, is very costly. So a system that already has a screen reader built in to it, is more cost efficient. I don't know what they will be running on it yet, but I'll keep the list posted when I find out. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 2:54 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered what software you using at radio station? I am in search fore radio station mac software fore my internet station Hank - Original Message - From: DJ DOCTOR P djdoct...@att.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered High Dain, Not here at the house. But I have a Mack in my office at work. I work for a loco radio station here in my home town. I hope to have a Mack of my very own by my 38th birthday which is, a few months away. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 12:17 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered Pardon my ignorance but do you have a Mac to try it on? This is Mac software we're discussing here. On 17/04/2010, at 2:12 PM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Dain, Thinks for the clarification! When I get a chance, I'll try that. If I run in to any trouble, I'll let you and everyone on this list know. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:46 PM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered Okay, I'll do my best to explain things here. Given that Audio Hijack Pro handles many sources then how you adjust the level depends very much on what you're hijacking/recording from, with Audio Hijack Pro, Hijack and Record are 2 different operations. In order to Record you first need to Hijack a source, you may just want to Hijack a source rather than record it, when a source is Hijacked, you can redirect its audio for example. Some sources you can adjust the level by adjusting the volume control of that
Re: It's Still Stealing
Well I must have been stealing when I copied music onto my tape recorder from radio, or American Bandstand on TV! - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and down load the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is tom or anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it steeling? Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc on in the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're going to want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a CD, or copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number of things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do something else with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though they have legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means to do so. Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people should be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of the world and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their acquisitions. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify for their service by being blind and having a player that they authroize. There is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare type services. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am concerned. Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Ok, so you say, it's still stealing. Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you download music and audio books without having to pay anything for it? Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and audio books without having to pay a dime for it. Explain that one to me, if you can! John. - Original Message - From: Tom t...@pc-audio.org To: pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM Subject: It's Still Stealing It's still stealing whether or not your boss gives you permission to copy it. Tom ** Message From: DJ DOCTOR P ** High Tom, I don't do it unless my boss gives me the green light to do it. If he says yes, then I do it. But if he says no, then it doesn't happen. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: It's Still Stealing
But NLS allows people to download books from the Bard site. - Original Message - From: Ford Blackwell blackwe...@ameritech.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:50 AM Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and down load the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is tom or anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it steeling? Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc on in the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're going to want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a CD, or copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number of things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do something else with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though they have legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means to do so. Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people should be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of the world and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their acquisitions. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify for their service by being blind and having a player that they authroize. There is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare type services. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am concerned. Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Ok, so you say, it's still stealing. Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you download music and audio books without having to pay anything for it? Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and audio books without having to pay a dime for it. Explain that one to me, if you can! John. - Original Message - From: Tom t...@pc-audio.org To: pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM Subject: It's Still Stealing It's still stealing whether or not your boss gives you permission to copy it. Tom ** Message From: DJ DOCTOR P ** High Tom, I don't do it unless my boss gives me the green light to do it. If he says yes, then I do it. But if he says no, then it doesn't happen. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: It's Still Stealing
the only small difference with BARD is that you don't buy the book from BARD so you own no part of it even though its on your computer. - Original Message - From: James Homuth ja...@the-jdh.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:36 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc on in the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're going to want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a CD, or copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number of things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do something else with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though they have legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means to do so. Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people should be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of the world and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their acquisitions. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify for their service by being blind and having a player that they authroize. There is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare type services. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am concerned. Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Ok, so you say, it's still stealing. Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you download music and audio books without having to pay anything for it? Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and audio books without having to pay a dime for it. Explain that one to me, if you can! John. - Original Message - From: Tom t...@pc-audio.org To: pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM Subject: It's Still Stealing It's still stealing whether or not your boss gives you permission to copy it. Tom ** Message From: DJ DOCTOR P ** High Tom, I don't do it unless my boss gives me the green light to do it. If he says yes, then I do it. But if he says no, then it doesn't happen. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: It's Still Stealing
So, it sounds like your're saying that in tthe 21st century all books, music, DVS movies should be free to whoever wants to download it? Or that when you purchase the book you have the right to distribute it whenever you want and to whomever you want with nothing else going to the author? - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 11:39 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Amen Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 11:04 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Well, then, folks are just going to have to look for alternatives. Which means more of that stuff you call stealing. Either way, the government still gets it wrong and BARD only further proves why 20th century business practices don't work in a 21st century industry. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:52 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing But Bard is funded by Congress, not exactly the most liberal or understanding of organizations. If they hear from their constituants not generally us, they'll pull the plug. - Original Message - From: James Homuth ja...@the-jdh.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Sure, if you believe BARD. Unfortunately, they're borrowing talking points from the recording industry. And those talking points have been debunked 6 ways from Sunday. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:42 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Actually, the consequences of wide spread piracy from outlets like Bard will be the elimination of the service. - Original Message - From: James Homuth ja...@the-jdh.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:36 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc on in the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're going to want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a CD, or copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number of things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do something else with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though they have legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means to do so. Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people should be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of the world and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their acquisitions. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify for their service by being blind and having a player that they authroize. There is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare type services. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am concerned. Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Ok, so you say, it's still stealing. Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you download music and audio books without having to pay anything for it? Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and audio books without having to pay a dime for it. Explain that one to me, if you can! John. - Original Message - From: Tom t...@pc-audio.org To: pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM Subject: It's Still Stealing It's still stealing whether or not your boss gives you permission to copy it. Tom ** Message From: DJ DOCTOR P ** High Tom, I don't do it unless my boss
Re: It's Still Stealing
same things with screen readers most blind are on ssi and can't aford 800 dollar plus screen readers - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:41 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That apsulootly the trooth, and the other thing that causes the same thing is the over prising of meedia. If someone can't aford it they will do what they have to do to have it. Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 11:01 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download your copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no legal authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that copy. Not only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even the most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example of iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. Apple no longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn them to a CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true with BARD. And it's business models like that that convince people to do things you would call stealing. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:51 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and down load the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is tom or anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it steeling? Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc on in the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're going to want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a CD, or copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number of things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do something else with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though they have legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means to do so. Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people should be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of the world and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their acquisitions. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify for their service by being blind and having a player that they authroize. There is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare type services. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am concerned. Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Ok, so you say, it's still stealing. Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you download music and audio books without having to pay anything for it? Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and audio books without having to pay a dime for it. Explain that one to me, if you can! John. - Original Message - From: Tom t...@pc-audio.org To: pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM Subject: It's Still Stealing It's still stealing whether or not your boss gives you permission to copy it. Tom **
Re: It's Still Stealing
your wrong if your cell fore proffit its elegal if your sharing unmung friends and family etc then its fine otherwise they need to band all cd burners, dvd records etc etc oh yeah and mp3 players to cause downloading mp3s is elegal to look as long as you don't cell fore proffit then its fine this was told to me buy a radio station professional who was in the indistory fore over 15 years - Original Message - From: Tom t...@pc-audio.org To: pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 11:37 AM Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing The websites that allow you to download music and other copyrighted material are illegal in the United States. Many of these sites are not in the United States and there have been situations where The the United States have put blocks on these out of country websites. The RIAA is going after people all the time and arresting them and fining them for all the material they downloaded illegally. If you do a lot of illegal downloading you could well find someone from the RIAA at your door someday. If you pay for a CD or an MP3 song you can make as many copies of it you wish as long as you and only you use it for yourself. If you give a copy of that CD or MP3 song to someone else then it becomes illegal. Books from the NLS is a completely different situation. The copyright holder of the books gives the NLS permission to reproduce their books in a special format. That's why the NLS books that are on cassette are recorded in order, track one, track three, track two and track four. The idea was that when recorded in this format the books could not be played on a standard cassette recorder. The NLS cassettes are also recorded at half normal cassette speed. This is also the reason digital books from the NLS are in a special format. The NLS had to insure the copyright holders of books that they would be used only by blind people and other handicapped people who could not read a normal print book. Tom ** Message From: DJ DOCTOR P ** Ok, so you say, it's still stealing. Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you download music and audio books without having to pay anything for it? Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and audio books without having to pay a dime for it. Explain that one to me, if you can! To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: VLC for the Mac was Winamp
can you tell me how to get around playlist with vlc everything from making a playlist on there to working the playlist function? couldn't figure that out also has any one wrote a winamp skin fore vlc on mac? am curious thanks Hank - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: VLC for the Mac was Winamp Its a little confusing here, I wasn't sure whether they were talking about LINUX or Mac but regardless of which you're absolutely right smile and what I said previously about VLC for Mac also applies. I also did mention that VLC these days doesn't seem to be accessible for Windows. Their was a Winamp for Mac but that died in the days of Mac OS9 I use VLC for the Mac here, does everything that Winamp does on the PC and is completely compatible, that's why I use it because I didn't have to modify any of my playlists or formats so I can just take stuff from the PC via the network and play them on the Mac with excellent quality. On 19/04/2010, at 3:38 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: A quick trip to the Winamp web page will show that there's no Winamp for the Mac. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane Trethowan Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 1:41 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Wouldn't have the faintest idea smile, if LINUX is anything like the Mac then you would use VLC? On 18/04/2010, at 4:33 PM, Gary Wood wrote: Hi Dane. Is there a Winamp for Macs? - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Well I don't know how you're going to go with Windows Media Player for the Mac as - from what I understand - it was discontinued for the Mac quite some time ago, you use Flip For Mac instead which integrates with Quicktime. On 18/04/2010, at 4:49 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Hank, I only keep track of the music that we play at the radio station. If I hear something I like, I will either save it as a wave file and or a flack file and copy it to a flash drive just so that I can take it home with me. My computer in my office, has Quick Time on it, which is more easier to use on a Mack then it is to use on a pc. They don't know this, but I downloaded Windows Media Player for Macks and installed it on that computer. But if you're asking about the computer in the control room, that one is running the Linux system. But they're looking to switch that one out for a Mack system. The reason for this is, coming by a screen reader that will work with the Linux system, is very costly. So a system that already has a screen reader built in to it, is more cost efficient. I don't know what they will be running on it yet, but I'll keep the list posted when I find out. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 2:54 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered what software you using at radio station? I am in search fore radio station mac software fore my internet station Hank - Original Message - From: DJ DOCTOR P djdoct...@att.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered High Dain, Not here at the house. But I have a Mack in my office at work. I work for a loco radio station here in my home town. I hope to have a Mack of my very own by my 38th birthday which is, a few months away. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 12:17 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered Pardon my ignorance but do you have a Mac to try it on? This is Mac software we're discussing here. On 17/04/2010, at 2:12 PM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Dain, Thinks for the clarification! When I get a chance, I'll try that. If I run in to any trouble, I'll let you and everyone on this list know. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:46 PM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered Okay, I'll do my best to explain things here. Given that Audio Hijack Pro handles many sources then how you adjust the level depends very much on what you're hijacking/recording from, with Audio Hijack Pro, Hijack and Record are 2 different operations. In order to Record you first
Re: It's Still Stealing
using your example. You said you paid for what you got from ITunes. You do not pay for what yu download from BARD. There is the difference. - Original Message - From: James Homuth ja...@the-jdh.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:01 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download your copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no legal authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that copy. Not only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even the most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example of iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. Apple no longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn them to a CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true with BARD. And it's business models like that that convince people to do things you would call stealing. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:51 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and down load the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is tom or anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it steeling? Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc on in the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're going to want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a CD, or copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number of things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do something else with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though they have legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means to do so. Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people should be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of the world and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their acquisitions. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify for their service by being blind and having a player that they authroize. There is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare type services. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am concerned. Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Ok, so you say, it's still stealing. Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you download music and audio books without having to pay anything for it? Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and audio books without having to pay a dime for it. Explain that one to me, if you can! John. - Original Message - From: Tom t...@pc-audio.org To: pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM Subject: It's Still Stealing It's still stealing whether or not your boss gives you permission to copy it. Tom ** Message From: DJ DOCTOR P ** High Tom, I don't do it unless my boss gives me the green light to do it. If he says yes, then I do it. But if he says no, then it doesn't happen. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this
Re: It's Still Stealing
a men to that guys can we stop this thread all ready? - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:01 PM Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing I don't quite know what this thread is all about as I haven't been following it but the subject line seems to suggest what I'm thinking, the thread is still stealing a lot of my band width which could be made useful for other interesting threads on this list smile. On 19/04/2010, at 10:54 AM, mitchell wrote: I never read anything that sed he was redistributing anything. I some times by a new cd, and then make a coppy of it to put in my wifes truck for our listing plusher. I have even been given a promoitinal cd from a concert, and done the same thing, and the cd came up missing. So are you saying that if I do this and some one gets my coppyed vershin and gets cought with I will be held responsible? Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 5:18 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing A few points. Copying someone else's CD's is illegal. If someone gives you a CD then that is not illegal. It's my understanding that sometimes special CD's can be distributed to broadcasters with the agreement that they not be redistributed. I obviously have no idea if that's what's going on in this case. Copying something you purchased or owned for your own personal use is not illegal, although there's some grey area here, it's generally assumed that no one will challenge the fair use laws. Making analog copies of material broadcast on TV or radio has always been permitted, but again, this is for your own personal use and not to be redistributed. Obviously, this has become more problematic for publishers with digital broadcasts and copies, although it still seems to be allowed for personal use. Obviously, you're clearly crossing the line by redistributing this material. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:52 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Hello James and others, I was accused by Tom of stealing because I make copies of CD's that my boss orders for his radio station. Sometimes, he orders more CD's then we really need. He lets us pick and choose what we want and take them home with us. I am telling you all right out, that my boss gives us CD's. So if he's giving them to us, then how are we stealing them from him? And precise, everybody has taped music off the radio and movies and other shows off the TV using tape recorders and VCR's. Tom, you're guilty of this too, so you don't really have anything to say about it. There isn't a person on the face of this earth that hasn't done it. People have been doing it for ages, and we are still doing it. The only thing that has changed about it, is the digital recorders have pretty much replaced the analog recorders. This day and age, you can record a song off the radio using your cell phone to do it. People are doing that too as well. I reiterate, my boss gives me the green light to do it. I do ask! But let the truth be told, some of my coworkers will bring in their Zoom and or iPod touch and load them up with music from the mane computer in the control room. And the boss doesn't know they're doing it! Their attitude is, if it's there, then why not help yourself to it? But in and of myself, if I want something, I'll ask for it. If I ask for it, and it is given to me, then I can't be stealing it. John. - Original Message - From: James Homuth ja...@the-jdh.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:03 PM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Well, then, folks are just going to have to look for alternatives. Which means more of that stuff you call stealing. Either way, the government still gets it wrong and BARD only further proves why 20th century business practices don't work in a 21st century industry. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:52 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing But Bard is funded by Congress, not exactly the most liberal or understanding of organizations. If they hear from their constituants not generally us, they'll pull the plug. - Original Message - From: James Homuth ja...@the-jdh.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Sure, if you believe BARD. Unfortunately, they're borrowing talking points from the recording industry. And those talking
Re: It's Still Stealing
Actually the answer is yes you were . What the industry did to get back part of this happened back in the late seventies. they began adding a royalty charge to any recording product. Whether it was blank cassettes, vhs and all recorders. - Original Message - From: Gary Wood k8...@att.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:16 AM Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Well I must have been stealing when I copied music onto my tape recorder from radio, or American Bandstand on TV! - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and down load the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is tom or anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it steeling? Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc on in the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're going to want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a CD, or copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number of things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do something else with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though they have legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means to do so. Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people should be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of the world and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their acquisitions. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify for their service by being blind and having a player that they authroize. There is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare type services. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am concerned. Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Ok, so you say, it's still stealing. Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you download music and audio books without having to pay anything for it? Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and audio books without having to pay a dime for it. Explain that one to me, if you can! John. - Original Message - From: Tom t...@pc-audio.org To: pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM Subject: It's Still Stealing It's still stealing whether or not your boss gives you permission to copy it. Tom ** Message From: DJ DOCTOR P ** High Tom, I don't do it unless my boss gives me the green light to do it. If he says yes, then I do it. But if he says no, then it doesn't happen. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
RE: It's Still Stealing
You are wrong. If you distribute a CD to friends then you're denying that record label income and that's illegal. A professional in the radio industry is not a lawyer. CD burners, DVD recorders and the like have perfectly legitimate uses. Just because people use them for illegitimate purposes doesn't mean they should be banned. It's attitudes like this that give us DRM and other copy protection schemes. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of hank smith Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 2:53 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing your wrong if your cell fore proffit its elegal if your sharing unmung friends and family etc then its fine otherwise they need to band all cd burners, dvd records etc etc oh yeah and mp3 players to cause downloading mp3s is elegal to look as long as you don't cell fore proffit then its fine this was told to me buy a radio station professional who was in the indistory fore over 15 years - Original Message - From: Tom t...@pc-audio.org To: pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 11:37 AM Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing The websites that allow you to download music and other copyrighted material are illegal in the United States. Many of these sites are not in the United States and there have been situations where The the United States have put blocks on these out of country websites. The RIAA is going after people all the time and arresting them and fining them for all the material they downloaded illegally. If you do a lot of illegal downloading you could well find someone from the RIAA at your door someday. If you pay for a CD or an MP3 song you can make as many copies of it you wish as long as you and only you use it for yourself. If you give a copy of that CD or MP3 song to someone else then it becomes illegal. Books from the NLS is a completely different situation. The copyright holder of the books gives the NLS permission to reproduce their books in a special format. That's why the NLS books that are on cassette are recorded in order, track one, track three, track two and track four. The idea was that when recorded in this format the books could not be played on a standard cassette recorder. The NLS cassettes are also recorded at half normal cassette speed. This is also the reason digital books from the NLS are in a special format. The NLS had to insure the copyright holders of books that they would be used only by blind people and other handicapped people who could not read a normal print book. Tom ** Message From: DJ DOCTOR P ** Ok, so you say, it's still stealing. Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you download music and audio books without having to pay anything for it? Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and audio books without having to pay a dime for it. Explain that one to me, if you can! To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: It's Still Stealing
Just think they could go back to their original practice which only allowed you to register with BARD if you had an approved player. then you wouldn't have to deal with it because you wouldn't have the frustration of being on a site you couldn't access. - Original Message - From: Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Why wouldn't you be able to get a player from the NLS? If you qualify for the BARD service then you'll be able to get a player free of charge from the NLS. You talk about using what you've legally acquired, but when you signed up for the NLS and the BARD site in particular, you agreed to abide by it's terms. Just because you now find those terms inconvenient doesn't mean you have the right to break the law and ignore those terms. Christopher chalt...@gmail.com mailto:chalt...@gmail.com On 4/18/2010 10:55 AM, James Homuth wrote: You touched on the problem right there. Every single thing you download from BARD is copy protected. Meaning, if you can't aford to purchase one of their select authorized players, or if you can't get the government to pay for one for you, yet you still want to actually be able to use what you legally have access to, you can't. Unless you break their copy protection, which the BARD loyalists will officially and immediately declare piracy. That isn't piracy, however. You have access to the material. You were allowed, by BARD, to download the material. You are authorized, by BARD, to keep, and listen to, everything you download from them indefinitely. The only thing BARD doesn't authorize you to do is listen to it while you're out somewhere without first going broke. *That* is what promotes piracy. If I have the choice to download something from BARD, fork over a couple hundred dollars for one of their authorized players, and then listen to the book while I'm on my way to work, or download a torrent of the same book, and copy it to the MP3 player I already have, which option do you think I'm going to go for? Same thing with people who find ways to break BARD's copy protection. They want the material, but either don't want to or can't aford to buy one of BARD's blessed players. They still want the material, and they still want to be able to listen to it while on their way to work. They already have a portable player, but by BARD's logic, you absolutely must buy a second portable player, just for BARD, or you'll be declared a pirate. Sorry, no. I already bought one. And it cost a whole lot less than the VR Stream. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of mitchell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:46 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Your rite, but after you download the file you don't return it. The books you download are coppy protected, so how are you not steeling it then. Your not so if you have permition to cop that file the if you have the permition of someone else to do the sam thing then you aren't steeling that either. Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:28 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify for their service by being blind and having a player that they authroize. There is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare type services. - Original Message - From: mitchellmitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List'pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am concerned. Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Ok, so you say, it's still stealing. Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you download music and audio books without having to pay anything for it? Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and audio books without having to pay a dime for it. Explain that one to me, if you can! John. - Original Message - From: Tomt...@pc-audio.org To:pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM Subject: It's Still Stealing It's still stealing whether or not your boss gives you
Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro
once you get past the learning curve its the total bomb you won't want to go back to windows or you will be like me only uses winblows as a last resort - Original Message - From: Gary Wood k8...@att.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 12:04 AM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Everything about Mac sounds good, especially with the Voiceover! But if I go that way, I'll have to learn a new system all over again! Does Mac seem easier or harder to learn than Windows? I know that it'll be different. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:14 AM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro not only that but I have yet to find a mac screen reader radio automation software fore that platform - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 5:06 PM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Flip For Mac is the replacement for Windows Media Play for the Mac, Microsoft recommend it for all the most up-to-date WMA audio/video features, its a third party product - in other words not developped by Microsoft and is updated regularly. The player - which integrates with Quicktime - is available free, other tools such as Video capturing etc you have to pay for but the prices are fairly reasonable. On 18/04/2010, at 10:03 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Dain, I done this in 2007. I think Microsoft still has it upon their website, but you'll have to do some digging in order to find it. You said something about Flip working well with Quick Time. What is Flip? John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 4:31 PM Subject: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Well I don't know how you're going to go with Windows Media Player for the Mac as - from what I understand - it was discontinued for the Mac quite some time ago, you use Flip For Mac instead which integrates with Quicktime. On 18/04/2010, at 4:49 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Hank, I only keep track of the music that we play at the radio station. If I hear something I like, I will either save it as a wave file and or a flack file and copy it to a flash drive just so that I can take it home with me. My computer in my office, has Quick Time on it, which is more easier to use on a Mack then it is to use on a pc. They don't know this, but I downloaded Windows Media Player for Macks and installed it on that computer. But if you're asking about the computer in the control room, that one is running the Linux system. But they're looking to switch that one out for a Mack system. The reason for this is, coming by a screen reader that will work with the Linux system, is very costly. So a system that already has a screen reader built in to it, is more cost efficient. I don't know what they will be running on it yet, but I'll keep the list posted when I find out. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 2:54 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered what software you using at radio station? I am in search fore radio station mac software fore my internet station Hank - Original Message - From: DJ DOCTOR P djdoct...@att.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered High Dain, Not here at the house. But I have a Mack in my office at work. I work for a loco radio station here in my home town. I hope to have a Mack of my very own by my 38th birthday which is, a few months away. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 12:17 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered Pardon my ignorance but do you have a Mac to try it on? This is Mac software we're discussing here. On 17/04/2010, at 2:12 PM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Dain, Thinks for the clarification! When I get a chance, I'll try that. If I run in to any trouble, I'll let you and everyone on this list know. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:46 PM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered Okay, I'll do my best to explain things here. Given that Audio Hijack Pro handles many sources then how you adjust the level depends very much on what
Re: Skype with laptop
did you go and check the hotkeys to use alt pageup? - Original Message - From: Peter Tighe psti...@mindspring.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 7:19 PM Subject: Skype with laptop This weekend trying to help a friend set up skype, I think I discovered that I cannot use alt-page up to answer a call and alt-page down to hangup a call as I can always do on my desktop. I am using jaws version 10 , skype 3.8 and the skype scripts 653A Thanks, Peter To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro
I didn't have any trouble switching from one to the other, I suppose this was because i took to the Mac with an Open mind, yep a new system but no! I'm not on my own. Plenty of great tools and resources to help you including the built-in reference material and interactive tutorials for Voiceover, the numpad and keyboard commander which are customisable etc. On 19/04/2010, at 5:04 PM, Gary Wood wrote: Everything about Mac sounds good, especially with the Voiceover! But if I go that way, I'll have to learn a new system all over again! Does Mac seem easier or harder to learn than Windows? I know that it'll be different. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:14 AM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro not only that but I have yet to find a mac screen reader radio automation software fore that platform - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 5:06 PM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Flip For Mac is the replacement for Windows Media Play for the Mac, Microsoft recommend it for all the most up-to-date WMA audio/video features, its a third party product - in other words not developped by Microsoft and is updated regularly. The player - which integrates with Quicktime - is available free, other tools such as Video capturing etc you have to pay for but the prices are fairly reasonable. On 18/04/2010, at 10:03 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Dain, I done this in 2007. I think Microsoft still has it upon their website, but you'll have to do some digging in order to find it. You said something about Flip working well with Quick Time. What is Flip? John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 4:31 PM Subject: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Well I don't know how you're going to go with Windows Media Player for the Mac as - from what I understand - it was discontinued for the Mac quite some time ago, you use Flip For Mac instead which integrates with Quicktime. On 18/04/2010, at 4:49 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Hank, I only keep track of the music that we play at the radio station. If I hear something I like, I will either save it as a wave file and or a flack file and copy it to a flash drive just so that I can take it home with me. My computer in my office, has Quick Time on it, which is more easier to use on a Mack then it is to use on a pc. They don't know this, but I downloaded Windows Media Player for Macks and installed it on that computer. But if you're asking about the computer in the control room, that one is running the Linux system. But they're looking to switch that one out for a Mack system. The reason for this is, coming by a screen reader that will work with the Linux system, is very costly. So a system that already has a screen reader built in to it, is more cost efficient. I don't know what they will be running on it yet, but I'll keep the list posted when I find out. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 2:54 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered what software you using at radio station? I am in search fore radio station mac software fore my internet station Hank - Original Message - From: DJ DOCTOR P djdoct...@att.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered High Dain, Not here at the house. But I have a Mack in my office at work. I work for a loco radio station here in my home town. I hope to have a Mack of my very own by my 38th birthday which is, a few months away. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 12:17 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered Pardon my ignorance but do you have a Mac to try it on? This is Mac software we're discussing here. On 17/04/2010, at 2:12 PM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Dain, Thinks for the clarification! When I get a chance, I'll try that. If I run in to any trouble, I'll let you and everyone on this list know. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:46 PM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered Okay, I'll do my
Re: VLC for the Mac was Winamp
You don't need a Winamp skin, just use the shortcuts which are detailed in the menu, command-p for play/pause, command-. for stop, command-o to open files or playlist and so on. On 19/04/2010, at 5:55 PM, hank smith wrote: can you tell me how to get around playlist with vlc everything from making a playlist on there to working the playlist function? couldn't figure that out also has any one wrote a winamp skin fore vlc on mac? am curious thanks Hank - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: VLC for the Mac was Winamp Its a little confusing here, I wasn't sure whether they were talking about LINUX or Mac but regardless of which you're absolutely right smile and what I said previously about VLC for Mac also applies. I also did mention that VLC these days doesn't seem to be accessible for Windows. Their was a Winamp for Mac but that died in the days of Mac OS9 I use VLC for the Mac here, does everything that Winamp does on the PC and is completely compatible, that's why I use it because I didn't have to modify any of my playlists or formats so I can just take stuff from the PC via the network and play them on the Mac with excellent quality. On 19/04/2010, at 3:38 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: A quick trip to the Winamp web page will show that there's no Winamp for the Mac. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane Trethowan Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 1:41 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Wouldn't have the faintest idea smile, if LINUX is anything like the Mac then you would use VLC? On 18/04/2010, at 4:33 PM, Gary Wood wrote: Hi Dane. Is there a Winamp for Macs? - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Well I don't know how you're going to go with Windows Media Player for the Mac as - from what I understand - it was discontinued for the Mac quite some time ago, you use Flip For Mac instead which integrates with Quicktime. On 18/04/2010, at 4:49 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Hank, I only keep track of the music that we play at the radio station. If I hear something I like, I will either save it as a wave file and or a flack file and copy it to a flash drive just so that I can take it home with me. My computer in my office, has Quick Time on it, which is more easier to use on a Mack then it is to use on a pc. They don't know this, but I downloaded Windows Media Player for Macks and installed it on that computer. But if you're asking about the computer in the control room, that one is running the Linux system. But they're looking to switch that one out for a Mack system. The reason for this is, coming by a screen reader that will work with the Linux system, is very costly. So a system that already has a screen reader built in to it, is more cost efficient. I don't know what they will be running on it yet, but I'll keep the list posted when I find out. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 2:54 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered what software you using at radio station? I am in search fore radio station mac software fore my internet station Hank - Original Message - From: DJ DOCTOR P djdoct...@att.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered High Dain, Not here at the house. But I have a Mack in my office at work. I work for a loco radio station here in my home town. I hope to have a Mack of my very own by my 38th birthday which is, a few months away. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 12:17 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered Pardon my ignorance but do you have a Mac to try it on? This is Mac software we're discussing here. On 17/04/2010, at 2:12 PM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Dain, Thinks for the clarification! When I get a chance, I'll try that. If I run in to any trouble, I'll let you and everyone on this list know. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:46 PM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack
Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro
I agree with you on tht, hardly use Windows now and if the PC dies tomorrow I'm not going to miss it much at all. On 19/04/2010, at 6:11 PM, hank smith wrote: once you get past the learning curve its the total bomb you won't want to go back to windows or you will be like me only uses winblows as a last resort - Original Message - From: Gary Wood k8...@att.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 12:04 AM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Everything about Mac sounds good, especially with the Voiceover! But if I go that way, I'll have to learn a new system all over again! Does Mac seem easier or harder to learn than Windows? I know that it'll be different. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:14 AM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro not only that but I have yet to find a mac screen reader radio automation software fore that platform - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 5:06 PM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Flip For Mac is the replacement for Windows Media Play for the Mac, Microsoft recommend it for all the most up-to-date WMA audio/video features, its a third party product - in other words not developped by Microsoft and is updated regularly. The player - which integrates with Quicktime - is available free, other tools such as Video capturing etc you have to pay for but the prices are fairly reasonable. On 18/04/2010, at 10:03 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Dain, I done this in 2007. I think Microsoft still has it upon their website, but you'll have to do some digging in order to find it. You said something about Flip working well with Quick Time. What is Flip? John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 4:31 PM Subject: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Well I don't know how you're going to go with Windows Media Player for the Mac as - from what I understand - it was discontinued for the Mac quite some time ago, you use Flip For Mac instead which integrates with Quicktime. On 18/04/2010, at 4:49 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Hank, I only keep track of the music that we play at the radio station. If I hear something I like, I will either save it as a wave file and or a flack file and copy it to a flash drive just so that I can take it home with me. My computer in my office, has Quick Time on it, which is more easier to use on a Mack then it is to use on a pc. They don't know this, but I downloaded Windows Media Player for Macks and installed it on that computer. But if you're asking about the computer in the control room, that one is running the Linux system. But they're looking to switch that one out for a Mack system. The reason for this is, coming by a screen reader that will work with the Linux system, is very costly. So a system that already has a screen reader built in to it, is more cost efficient. I don't know what they will be running on it yet, but I'll keep the list posted when I find out. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 2:54 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered what software you using at radio station? I am in search fore radio station mac software fore my internet station Hank - Original Message - From: DJ DOCTOR P djdoct...@att.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered High Dain, Not here at the house. But I have a Mack in my office at work. I work for a loco radio station here in my home town. I hope to have a Mack of my very own by my 38th birthday which is, a few months away. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 12:17 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered Pardon my ignorance but do you have a Mac to try it on? This is Mac software we're discussing here. On 17/04/2010, at 2:12 PM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Dain, Thinks for the clarification! When I get a chance, I'll try that. If I run in to any trouble, I'll let you and everyone on this list know. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List
what is bard and where to find it?
I've heard of Bard but don't really know details. Is this a service where we can download talking books without having to have something like a Victor Stream? I would like to know about it and where to sign up, especially if it is simply a download of talking books service. Thanks. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
RE: what is bard and where to find it?
Yes, you can download Digital Talking Books from BARD. You can copy them onto a blank cartridge which you could use in your Digital Talking Book Player or you can use a thumb drive and the USB port on the side of the player. If you're already a borrower in good standing with the NLS than you can apply for a BARD account at https://nlsbard.loc.gov/PA1A/ApplicationInstructions.html. The BARD Talk web site at http://www.bardtalk.com/ is a good source to learn more about BARD. Your state library service is obviously another good source. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Joanne Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 5:34 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: what is bard and where to find it? I've heard of Bard but don't really know details. Is this a service where we can download talking books without having to have something like a Victor Stream? I would like to know about it and where to sign up, especially if it is simply a download of talking books service. Thanks. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Fwd: SkypeTalking, PlexTalk, Winamp and more on Innovations
From:Chrissie Cochrane chris...@theglobalvoice.info To: innovati...@theglobalvoice.info On this week's Innovations I talk with Hrvoje Katic from Zagreb about Skype Talking, and we look at the latest update. We then have a feature by Stuart lawler on the new Plextalk and the latest firmware update. Following that, in part 3 of my look at Winamp we start delving into the Winamp preferences section, and believe me there is much there. Finally Stuart Lawler returns and talks to me about Torsten Brandt who sadly passed away and will be a great loss to the blind community. That's all on Innovations heard for the first time at 17:00 UTC, 1 pm Eastern, 10 am Pacific in the US, 6 pm in the UK and 7 pm in Central Europe, on the one and only Global Voice, the most interactive station on the internet. Check the schedule on our website http://theglobalvoice.info for times of repeats. Do remember it can always be downloaded or streamed from our Program Gallery. Chrissie Managing Director; the Global Voice www.theglobalvoice.info I'm also now on Twitter: chrissietgv Regards Steve Email: s...@internode.on.net MSN Messenger: internetuser...@hotmail.com Skype: steve1963 Twitter: steve9782 To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: what is bard and where to find it?
I am looking at the application and using Jaws 10, and it's showing only 2 libraries--one in Pittsburgh and one in Philadelphia. I'm not in Pennsylvania and don't know where to explain that it would be the Michigan library. I'll call my library later if I need their reference, but just wondering if others are getting only 2 choices in the combo box. - Original Message - From: Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 6:45 AM Subject: RE: what is bard and where to find it? Yes, you can download Digital Talking Books from BARD. You can copy them onto a blank cartridge which you could use in your Digital Talking Book Player or you can use a thumb drive and the USB port on the side of the player. If you're already a borrower in good standing with the NLS than you can apply for a BARD account at https://nlsbard.loc.gov/PA1A/ApplicationInstructions.html. The BARD Talk web site at http://www.bardtalk.com/ is a good source to learn more about BARD. Your state library service is obviously another good source. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Joanne Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 5:34 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: what is bard and where to find it? I've heard of Bard but don't really know details. Is this a service where we can download talking books without having to have something like a Victor Stream? I would like to know about it and where to sign up, especially if it is simply a download of talking books service. Thanks. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: what is bard and where to find it?
Ah, sorry about that. Try this link: https://nlsbard.loc.gov/ApplicationInstructions.html. I got that previous link from the BARD Talk web site. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 5:58 AM, Joanne wrote: I am looking at the application and using Jaws 10, and it's showing only 2 libraries--one in Pittsburgh and one in Philadelphia. I'm not in Pennsylvania and don't know where to explain that it would be the Michigan library. I'll call my library later if I need their reference, but just wondering if others are getting only 2 choices in the combo box. - Original Message - From: Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 6:45 AM Subject: RE: what is bard and where to find it? Yes, you can download Digital Talking Books from BARD. You can copy them onto a blank cartridge which you could use in your Digital Talking Book Player or you can use a thumb drive and the USB port on the side of the player. If you're already a borrower in good standing with the NLS than you can apply for a BARD account at https://nlsbard.loc.gov/PA1A/ApplicationInstructions.html. The BARD Talk web site at http://www.bardtalk.com/ is a good source to learn more about BARD. Your state library service is obviously another good source. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Joanne Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 5:34 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: what is bard and where to find it? I've heard of Bard but don't really know details. Is this a service where we can download talking books without having to have something like a Victor Stream? I would like to know about it and where to sign up, especially if it is simply a download of talking books service. Thanks. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
RE: It's Still Stealing
If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new digital players and someone is making tons of money building and selling them to the government and someone in said government is receiving incentives to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it is all about money? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download your copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no legal authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that copy. Not only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even the most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example of iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. Apple no longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn them to a CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true with BARD. And it's business models like that that convince people to do things you would call stealing. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:51 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and down load the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is tom or anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it steeling? Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc on in the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're going to want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a CD, or copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number of things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do something else with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though they have legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means to do so. Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people should be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of the world and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their acquisitions. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify for their service by being blind and having a player that they authroize. There is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare type services. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am concerned. Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Ok, so you say, it's still stealing. Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you download music and audio books without having to pay anything for it? Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and audio books without having to pay a dime for it. Explain that one to me, if you can! John. - Original Message - From: Tom t...@pc-audio.org To: pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM Subject: It's Still Stealing It's
Re: Skype with laptop
Robert, Thad did the trick! Thanks a lot. Peter - Original Message - From: Robert doc Wright godfea...@wrighthere.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 3:12 AM Subject: Re: Skype with laptop did you go and check the hotkeys to use alt pageup? - Original Message - From: Peter Tighe psti...@mindspring.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 7:19 PM Subject: Skype with laptop This weekend trying to help a friend set up skype, I think I discovered that I cannot use alt-page up to answer a call and alt-page down to hangup a call as I can always do on my desktop. I am using jaws version 10 , skype 3.8 and the skype scripts 653A Thanks, Peter To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: It's Still Stealing
No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature they're boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the way. Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new digital players and someone is making tons of money building and selling them to the government and someone in said government is receiving incentives to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it is all about money? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download your copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no legal authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that copy. Not only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even the most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example of iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. Apple no longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn them to a CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true with BARD. And it's business models like that that convince people to do things you would call stealing. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:51 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission. - Original Message - From: mitchellmitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List'pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and down load the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is tom or anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it steeling? Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc on in the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're going to want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a CD, or copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number of things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do something else with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though they have legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means to do so. Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people should be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of the world and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their acquisitions. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify for their service by being blind and having a player that they
RE: It's Still Stealing
That is where you are wrong. There are many folks whom have made very handsome profits from BARD. Those players don't just fall from the sky you know. They cost money to make and design and that is profit for someone. Also the very existence of BARD is, and has always, been to provide paid positions for some very connected blind folks. Think about it. Why do we even need our own system of libraries? Hundreds of thousands of local lending libraries throughout the US provide a range of print, audio, visual, and electronic media to lend to the masses every day without the same knee jerk concerns of copyright violation. You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? There is no reason why our nations infrastructure of lending libraries could not be the venues for electronic media not just for the sighted but blind alike but that would take payola out of the pockets of quite a few blind folks now wouldn't it? Yes folks you cannot leave profit out of this conversation, sad to say. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 2:16 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing The reason in my mind is that you are signing up for a service provided by the US government. This service is free of charge, and you are agreeing to it's terms when you sign up for it. The law enabling this service aims to provide material free to the blind while protecting the rights of the publishers. This program is intended for all blind citizens of the US and not just those with PC's. This is not a business or profit making venture, but is paid for by tax dollars, of which I'm a tax payer. Your analogies to Sony and Apple just don't apply. Even though we have the luxury of keeping the books around and playing them on multiple players, it doesn't change the fact that this is a library, and we're borrowing these books. BTW, there is no way to listen to these books on a PC. You need a player provided for free by the NLS or you can purchase several different book players. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:48 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Kevin, the point is this. Why should you, after obtaining the NLS books, have to go and get one of the NLS approved players just to enjoy the privelege of being able to listen to the book while not at the computer? That would be like Soni putting out an album with copy protection that limitted what you could play it on to CD players manufactured by Soni. Soni already tried the whole copy protection to prevent people from putting the contents of CD's on their computers, or copying them to other CD's. A pretty high-profile lawsuit later, they don't do that anymore. Apple tried to say you could only put music you purchased from iTunes on your iPod. You couldn't burn that to CD, or play it in anything else that wasn't either your iPod or iTunes. Specificly, the version of iTunes on the computer to which it was downloaded. Without getting into the nitty gritty details, let's just say they don't do that anymore either. The same applies to NLS. The only reason it hasn't changed yet is because there's no reason for them to, according to them. Hence, people will continue to break the copy protection anyway. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Minor Sent: April 18, 2010 6:02 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Hi John and list. I'm going to comment on several messages that I've seen on this topic. First, John, I wonder if your direct boss is the owner of the station. If he is, the station may get into trouble if publishers find out he is allowing material sent to the station is being copied. This material is specificly for the use of the station. In fact, I'm not sure if the owner of the CD actually owns the music. With software, you are licensed to use the software. You don't own the copy you use, you just have a license for it. I'm not blaming you for copying the CD's. Just be aware that the station could be in legal trouble if investigated. As for using VCR's or tape recorders, this has been a debate that the publishers of material have had with people for years. I don't know the legal wording, but I believe that courts have ruled that so long as you use the material you obtain from over the air, you have the right to use it for your own private use. This also holds for albums you buy. If you decide to make a
Re: It's Still Stealing
Wow, I can't respond to all of these unsubstantiated allegations. This is the first I've heard though that the whole existence of BARD is to line the pockets of some select blind people. I tend to doubt this is the case myself. I'm sure other distribution mechanisms could have been used, including leveraging existing municipal libraries. These libraries aren't federal though, and not every state or community is going to have the same set of services available through their local library system. Also, remember that the network of state libraries has been around for decades and it's original purpose was to distribute materials to the blind, especially blinded vetrans. Even today, computer savvy patrons are in the minority of NLS users. This is also why the player and cartridges are so easy to use and service like supporting other media, PC's and the like aren't supported. I'm not sure how you can say that this somehow indicates that the blind are more disposed to piracy than the general community. Several analgies have been made on this list to Sony and Apple, which have nothing to do with the blind. You even mention Overdrive, which protects most of it's content. Audible and other services which don't cater to the blind have their own protected formats. There are some blind people though who feel that because of the relatively weak economic state of the blind as a whole that they're well within their rights to take whatever they need when they feel the cost is unreasonable. I don't believe this is unique to the blind though. The whole issue of DRM is not a blindness issue. Many sighted people feel they're allowed to steal music because RIAA is evil. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 8:42 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: That is where you are wrong. There are many folks whom have made very handsome profits from BARD. Those players don't just fall from the sky you know. They cost money to make and design and that is profit for someone. Also the very existence of BARD is, and has always, been to provide paid positions for some very connected blind folks. Think about it. Why do we even need our own system of libraries? Hundreds of thousands of local lending libraries throughout the US provide a range of print, audio, visual, and electronic media to lend to the masses every day without the same knee jerk concerns of copyright violation. You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? There is no reason why our nations infrastructure of lending libraries could not be the venues for electronic media not just for the sighted but blind alike but that would take payola out of the pockets of quite a few blind folks now wouldn't it? Yes folks you cannot leave profit out of this conversation, sad to say. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 2:16 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing The reason in my mind is that you are signing up for a service provided by the US government. This service is free of charge, and you are agreeing to it's terms when you sign up for it. The law enabling this service aims to provide material free to the blind while protecting the rights of the publishers. This program is intended for all blind citizens of the US and not just those with PC's. This is not a business or profit making venture, but is paid for by tax dollars, of which I'm a tax payer. Your analogies to Sony and Apple just don't apply. Even though we have the luxury of keeping the books around and playing them on multiple players, it doesn't change the fact that this is a library, and we're borrowing these books. BTW, there is no way to listen to these books on a PC. You need a player provided for free by the NLS or you can purchase several different book players. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:48 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Kevin, the point is this. Why should you, after obtaining the NLS books, have to go and get one of the NLS approved players just to enjoy the privelege of being able to listen to the book while not at the computer? That would be like Soni putting out an album with copy protection that limitted what you could play it on to CD players manufactured by Soni. Soni already tried the whole copy protection to prevent people from putting the contents of CD's on their computers, or copying them to other CD's. A pretty high-profile lawsuit later, they don't do that anymore. Apple tried to
RE: It's Still Stealing
Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit the bill for that LazyBoy. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature they're boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the way. Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new digital players and someone is making tons of money building and selling them to the government and someone in said government is receiving incentives to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it is all about money? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download your copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no legal authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that copy. Not only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even the most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example of iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. Apple no longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn them to a CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true with BARD. And it's business models like that that convince people to do things you would call stealing. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:51 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission. - Original Message - From: mitchellmitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List'pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and down load the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is tom or anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it steeling? Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc on in the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're going to want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a CD, or
RE: It's Still Stealing
Why do you feel Overdrive is restrictive DRM? I don't feel that at all. Overdrive can be used with your player of choice (IPod, MP3 Player, CD, or 'puter) our local lending library (The Boston Public Library System, god bless them for a great system) even gives patrons instructions on how to use Overdrive books downloaded from the, on patrons' player of choice. You can't compare that to BARD where the required players create a restrictive market which is heavily slanted towards a few specific vendors. The copyright issues are the same between BARD and the average local lending library that offers electronic media, so why is the implementation different? You are correct abot the history of the talking book library. But, with the proliferation of electronic media in mainstream libraries a separate and very unequal system for the blind is totally a dinosaur, IMHO. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:03 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Wow, I can't respond to all of these unsubstantiated allegations. This is the first I've heard though that the whole existence of BARD is to line the pockets of some select blind people. I tend to doubt this is the case myself. I'm sure other distribution mechanisms could have been used, including leveraging existing municipal libraries. These libraries aren't federal though, and not every state or community is going to have the same set of services available through their local library system. Also, remember that the network of state libraries has been around for decades and it's original purpose was to distribute materials to the blind, especially blinded vetrans. Even today, computer savvy patrons are in the minority of NLS users. This is also why the player and cartridges are so easy to use and service like supporting other media, PC's and the like aren't supported. I'm not sure how you can say that this somehow indicates that the blind are more disposed to piracy than the general community. Several analgies have been made on this list to Sony and Apple, which have nothing to do with the blind. You even mention Overdrive, which protects most of it's content. Audible and other services which don't cater to the blind have their own protected formats. There are some blind people though who feel that because of the relatively weak economic state of the blind as a whole that they're well within their rights to take whatever they need when they feel the cost is unreasonable. I don't believe this is unique to the blind though. The whole issue of DRM is not a blindness issue. Many sighted people feel they're allowed to steal music because RIAA is evil. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 8:42 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: That is where you are wrong. There are many folks whom have made very handsome profits from BARD. Those players don't just fall from the sky you know. They cost money to make and design and that is profit for someone. Also the very existence of BARD is, and has always, been to provide paid positions for some very connected blind folks. Think about it. Why do we even need our own system of libraries? Hundreds of thousands of local lending libraries throughout the US provide a range of print, audio, visual, and electronic media to lend to the masses every day without the same knee jerk concerns of copyright violation. You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? There is no reason why our nations infrastructure of lending libraries could not be the venues for electronic media not just for the sighted but blind alike but that would take payola out of the pockets of quite a few blind folks now wouldn't it? Yes folks you cannot leave profit out of this conversation, sad to say. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 2:16 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing The reason in my mind is that you are signing up for a service provided by the US government. This service is free of charge, and you are agreeing to it's terms when you sign up for it. The law enabling this service aims to provide material free to the blind while protecting the rights of the publishers. This program is intended for all blind citizens of the US and not just those with PC's. This is not a business or profit making venture, but is paid for by tax dollars, of which I'm a tax payer. Your analogies to Sony and Apple just don't apply. Even though we have the luxury of keeping
Re: It's Still Stealing
so, it sounds like you would prefer the NLS to use the same standards as the public library does with their overdrive books and build in a self-destruct feature so that you can no longer use the book after a set period of time? - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:10 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new digital players and someone is making tons of money building and selling them to the government and someone in said government is receiving incentives to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it is all about money? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download your copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no legal authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that copy. Not only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even the most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example of iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. Apple no longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn them to a CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true with BARD. And it's business models like that that convince people to do things you would call stealing. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:51 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and down load the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is tom or anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it steeling? Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc on in the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're going to want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a CD, or copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number of things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do something else with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though they have legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means to do so. Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people should be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of the world and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their acquisitions. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify for their service by being blind and having a player that they authroize. There is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare type services. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am concerned. Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Ok, so you say, it's still stealing. Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you
Re: It's Still Stealing
i am quite sure that if your library knew that you were copying whole books that you borrowed from them they would address that issue with you. - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That is where you are wrong. There are many folks whom have made very handsome profits from BARD. Those players don't just fall from the sky you know. They cost money to make and design and that is profit for someone. Also the very existence of BARD is, and has always, been to provide paid positions for some very connected blind folks. Think about it. Why do we even need our own system of libraries? Hundreds of thousands of local lending libraries throughout the US provide a range of print, audio, visual, and electronic media to lend to the masses every day without the same knee jerk concerns of copyright violation. You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? There is no reason why our nations infrastructure of lending libraries could not be the venues for electronic media not just for the sighted but blind alike but that would take payola out of the pockets of quite a few blind folks now wouldn't it? Yes folks you cannot leave profit out of this conversation, sad to say. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 2:16 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing The reason in my mind is that you are signing up for a service provided by the US government. This service is free of charge, and you are agreeing to it's terms when you sign up for it. The law enabling this service aims to provide material free to the blind while protecting the rights of the publishers. This program is intended for all blind citizens of the US and not just those with PC's. This is not a business or profit making venture, but is paid for by tax dollars, of which I'm a tax payer. Your analogies to Sony and Apple just don't apply. Even though we have the luxury of keeping the books around and playing them on multiple players, it doesn't change the fact that this is a library, and we're borrowing these books. BTW, there is no way to listen to these books on a PC. You need a player provided for free by the NLS or you can purchase several different book players. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:48 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Kevin, the point is this. Why should you, after obtaining the NLS books, have to go and get one of the NLS approved players just to enjoy the privelege of being able to listen to the book while not at the computer? That would be like Soni putting out an album with copy protection that limitted what you could play it on to CD players manufactured by Soni. Soni already tried the whole copy protection to prevent people from putting the contents of CD's on their computers, or copying them to other CD's. A pretty high-profile lawsuit later, they don't do that anymore. Apple tried to say you could only put music you purchased from iTunes on your iPod. You couldn't burn that to CD, or play it in anything else that wasn't either your iPod or iTunes. Specificly, the version of iTunes on the computer to which it was downloaded. Without getting into the nitty gritty details, let's just say they don't do that anymore either. The same applies to NLS. The only reason it hasn't changed yet is because there's no reason for them to, according to them. Hence, people will continue to break the copy protection anyway. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Minor Sent: April 18, 2010 6:02 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Hi John and list. I'm going to comment on several messages that I've seen on this topic. First, John, I wonder if your direct boss is the owner of the station. If he is, the station may get into trouble if publishers find out he is allowing material sent to the station is being copied. This material is specificly for the use of the station. In fact, I'm not sure if the owner of the CD actually owns the music. With software, you are licensed to use the software. You don't own the copy you use, you just have a license for it. I'm not blaming you for copying the CD's. Just be aware that the station could be in legal trouble if investigated. As for using VCR's or tape
Re: It's Still Stealing
Here are your words frank: frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? What did you mean by this? - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit the bill for that LazyBoy. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature they're boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the way. Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new digital players and someone is making tons of money building and selling them to the government and someone in said government is receiving incentives to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it is all about money? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download your copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no legal authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that copy. Not only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even the most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example of iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. Apple no longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn them to a CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true with BARD. And it's business models like that that convince people to do things you would call stealing. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:51 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission. - Original Message - From: mitchellmitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List'pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and down load the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is tom or anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it steeling? Mitchell -Original Message- From:
RE: It's Still Stealing
They may not openly allow you to copy a book, but they're not openly stopping you either. It's the same thing with renting a movie from Blockbuster and copying it onto a blank DVD. They don't openly allow you, but Blockbuster's not doing much to discourage you either. And it hasn't exactly hurt their bottom line any. At least, not anymore than places like Netflicks do, who actually allow you to stream movies online right from their website, legally. Your local library's the same way. Whether or not you take the book home, copy it, and bring it back, or not, isn't hurting their bottom line any. At the end of the day, you still only check the book out once. The library probably doesn't really care what you do with it afterwards, so long as it comes back in the same condition it left in. I could go into my library, check out a book, give it to you for a week to read if you don't have a card at that particular library, then turn it back in at the end of the week. Did you copy it during that week you had it? Maybe, maybe not. Do I care? No. Does the library? No, so long as I still bring the original book back at the end of the week. And again, just to drive the point home, the public library doesn't care what you use to play that audiobook you checked out from them. You don't need to check out a specific MP3 player just to be able to listen to it. So really, that's a pretty bad comparison to BARD if you really want to stick to it. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: April 19, 2010 11:02 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List; PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Here are your words frank: frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? What did you mean by this? - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit the bill for that LazyBoy. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature they're boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the way. Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new digital players and someone is making tons of money building and selling them to the government and someone in said government is receiving incentives to continue this practice? So does anyone not think
RE: It's Still Stealing
I was waiting for someone to make that argument. If the public library system uses that, and I haven't found evidence yet that says most of them do, that's very nearly as ridiculous as the system BARD uses. That's escentially saying to consumers, We don't trust you as far as we can throw you, but rather than restrict how and when you can play the books, we'd rather destroy them and replace them than take the chance someone might actually want to take longer than x days to listen to them. Something tells me that would do more damage to the library than any potential piracy might. But, leave it to the government to pick the option most likely to be laughed off. Never mind cracked in a week. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: April 19, 2010 10:50 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing so, it sounds like you would prefer the NLS to use the same standards as the public library does with their overdrive books and build in a self-destruct feature so that you can no longer use the book after a set period of time? - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:10 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new digital players and someone is making tons of money building and selling them to the government and someone in said government is receiving incentives to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it is all about money? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download your copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no legal authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that copy. Not only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even the most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example of iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. Apple no longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn them to a CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true with BARD. And it's business models like that that convince people to do things you would call stealing. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:51 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and down load the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is tom or anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it steeling? Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc on in the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're going to want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a CD, or copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number of things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do something else with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though they have legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means to do so. Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people should be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of the world and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their acquisitions. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List
Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro
Hello Dain, That is one of the things I love about the Mack system! SMILES It is a grate system once you get the hang of it. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 4:42 AM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro I didn't have any trouble switching from one to the other, I suppose this was because i took to the Mac with an Open mind, yep a new system but no! I'm not on my own. Plenty of great tools and resources to help you including the built-in reference material and interactive tutorials for Voiceover, the numpad and keyboard commander which are customisable etc. On 19/04/2010, at 5:04 PM, Gary Wood wrote: Everything about Mac sounds good, especially with the Voiceover! But if I go that way, I'll have to learn a new system all over again! Does Mac seem easier or harder to learn than Windows? I know that it'll be different. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:14 AM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro not only that but I have yet to find a mac screen reader radio automation software fore that platform - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 5:06 PM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Flip For Mac is the replacement for Windows Media Play for the Mac, Microsoft recommend it for all the most up-to-date WMA audio/video features, its a third party product - in other words not developped by Microsoft and is updated regularly. The player - which integrates with Quicktime - is available free, other tools such as Video capturing etc you have to pay for but the prices are fairly reasonable. On 18/04/2010, at 10:03 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Dain, I done this in 2007. I think Microsoft still has it upon their website, but you'll have to do some digging in order to find it. You said something about Flip working well with Quick Time. What is Flip? John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 4:31 PM Subject: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Well I don't know how you're going to go with Windows Media Player for the Mac as - from what I understand - it was discontinued for the Mac quite some time ago, you use Flip For Mac instead which integrates with Quicktime. On 18/04/2010, at 4:49 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Hank, I only keep track of the music that we play at the radio station. If I hear something I like, I will either save it as a wave file and or a flack file and copy it to a flash drive just so that I can take it home with me. My computer in my office, has Quick Time on it, which is more easier to use on a Mack then it is to use on a pc. They don't know this, but I downloaded Windows Media Player for Macks and installed it on that computer. But if you're asking about the computer in the control room, that one is running the Linux system. But they're looking to switch that one out for a Mack system. The reason for this is, coming by a screen reader that will work with the Linux system, is very costly. So a system that already has a screen reader built in to it, is more cost efficient. I don't know what they will be running on it yet, but I'll keep the list posted when I find out. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 2:54 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered what software you using at radio station? I am in search fore radio station mac software fore my internet station Hank - Original Message - From: DJ DOCTOR P djdoct...@att.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered High Dain, Not here at the house. But I have a Mack in my office at work. I work for a loco radio station here in my home town. I hope to have a Mack of my very own by my 38th birthday which is, a few months away. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 12:17 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered Pardon my ignorance but do you have a Mac to try it on? This is Mac software we're discussing here. On 17/04/2010, at 2:12 PM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Dain, Thinks for the clarification! When I get a chance, I'll try that. If I run in to any trouble, I'll let you and everyone on
Re: It's Still Stealing
Copying DVD's you borrow from Blockbuster violates your terms and conditions with Blockbuster. It's also stealing that DVD from the DVD's distributor. Just because they're not doing more to proactively prevent you from copying the DVD, through implementing some DVD copy protection, doesn't make it legal for you to copy the DVD. I'm not sure how you know this isn't effecting blockbuster's bottom line. Given their financial woes of late, they obviously have a lot of pressure on their bottom line. I also disagree that your library doesn't care if you're making copies of their books. If publishers thought that library patrons were making copies of library books and that was cutting into their bottom line then they'd go after the libraries or stop making books available to the libraries. This isn't much of an issue with hardcopies, but it's obviously more of an issue for digital material where the copying and distribution process is so easy and inexpensive. I suppose it's true that libraries don't care what MP3 player you use, but as with most material on Overdrive, they do want you to play it on a player capable of playing DRM protected WMA files. The original DRM protected WMA file will also expire after two weeks and then according to your terms and conditions, you are responsible for destroying any copies you made for your own personal use. If I'm following your logic then it would be OK if everyone proactively pursued some sort of copy protection. Your argument seems to be that copy protection isn't bad just the fact that the methods of copy protection are inconsistent. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 10:45 AM, James Homuth wrote: They may not openly allow you to copy a book, but they're not openly stopping you either. It's the same thing with renting a movie from Blockbuster and copying it onto a blank DVD. They don't openly allow you, but Blockbuster's not doing much to discourage you either. And it hasn't exactly hurt their bottom line any. At least, not anymore than places like Netflicks do, who actually allow you to stream movies online right from their website, legally. Your local library's the same way. Whether or not you take the book home, copy it, and bring it back, or not, isn't hurting their bottom line any. At the end of the day, you still only check the book out once. The library probably doesn't really care what you do with it afterwards, so long as it comes back in the same condition it left in. I could go into my library, check out a book, give it to you for a week to read if you don't have a card at that particular library, then turn it back in at the end of the week. Did you copy it during that week you had it? Maybe, maybe not. Do I care? No. Does the library? No, so long as I still bring the original book back at the end of the week. And again, just to drive the point home, the public library doesn't care what you use to play that audiobook you checked out from them. You don't need to check out a specific MP3 player just to be able to listen to it. So really, that's a pretty bad comparison to BARD if you really want to stick to it. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: April 19, 2010 11:02 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List; PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Here are your words frank: frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? What did you mean by this? - Original Message - From: Frank Venturafrank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion Listpc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit the bill for that LazyBoy. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re:
RE: It's Still Stealing
Audiobook sales are pretty much exactly like album sales. The publishers see most of the revenue from it, whereas the authors get stuck with very little. And, indeed, there are quite a few authors now who are releasing their books online first, knowing they'll be downloaded, given away, whatever, and knowing that'll transfer over into more direct interactions with readers. That, in turn, will generate more revenue that goes directly to the author. Why do you think publishers are now getting all uppity because people are being drawn more to ebooks? They don't get as much of a kickback from it--the author gets more of the money then. That's why you see, if you actually bother to read about it, publishers pulling their selections from Amazon and companies like that. If a book is good enough, people will pay for it anyway, whether they've purchased it or not. Because, and rightly so, authors do deserve to be compensated for the work. But they're more likely to pay for it in methods that go directly to the author if that's the case, and bypass the publishers entirely. Also, though I suspect pointing it out will serve only to be ignored, there's a ton and a half of evidence that says piracy doesn't have nearly the effect on sales of any variety as the industry would like to have you believe. In fact, sales in certain industries are actually inicreasing, be there piracy or no piracy. But best not tell that to the lobbiests just in case they brand you a pirate by association. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature they're boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the way. Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new digital players and someone is making tons of money building and selling them to the government and someone in said government is receiving incentives to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it is all about money? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download your copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no legal authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that copy. Not only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even the most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example of iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. Apple no longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn them to a CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true with BARD. And it's business models like that that convince people to do things you would call stealing. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:51 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission. - Original Message - From: mitchellmitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List'pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and down load the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is tom
RE: It's Still Stealing
Well said and it should be noted that the copy protection scheme currently used by NLS is designed to sell players, either to the tax payers or to individuals, not protect authors since ven little 12 year old Jimmy on his mommies laptop can crack that copy protection and as you correctly noted authors don't get the lion's share of audio book revenue. The person you were replying to said that people on this list think they can do whatever they want with a MP3 once they download it. I don't think anyone here said so much and that is exactally the type of paranoia that feeds into this type of hysteria that only lines the pockets of the RIAA and publishers and hurts the artists/authors and consumers. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 12:38 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Audiobook sales are pretty much exactly like album sales. The publishers see most of the revenue from it, whereas the authors get stuck with very little. And, indeed, there are quite a few authors now who are releasing their books online first, knowing they'll be downloaded, given away, whatever, and knowing that'll transfer over into more direct interactions with readers. That, in turn, will generate more revenue that goes directly to the author. Why do you think publishers are now getting all uppity because people are being drawn more to ebooks? They don't get as much of a kickback from it--the author gets more of the money then. That's why you see, if you actually bother to read about it, publishers pulling their selections from Amazon and companies like that. If a book is good enough, people will pay for it anyway, whether they've purchased it or not. Because, and rightly so, authors do deserve to be compensated for the work. But they're more likely to pay for it in methods that go directly to the author if that's the case, and bypass the publishers entirely. Also, though I suspect pointing it out will serve only to be ignored, there's a ton and a half of evidence that says piracy doesn't have nearly the effect on sales of any variety as the industry would like to have you believe. In fact, sales in certain industries are actually inicreasing, be there piracy or no piracy. But best not tell that to the lobbiests just in case they brand you a pirate by association. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature they're boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the way. Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new digital players and someone is making tons of money building and selling them to the government and someone in said government is receiving incentives to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it is all about money? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download your copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no legal authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that copy. Not only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even the most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example of iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes.
RE: It's Still Stealing
Are you accusing me (or anyone else on this list) of copying books? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:54 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing i am quite sure that if your library knew that you were copying whole books that you borrowed from them they would address that issue with you. - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That is where you are wrong. There are many folks whom have made very handsome profits from BARD. Those players don't just fall from the sky you know. They cost money to make and design and that is profit for someone. Also the very existence of BARD is, and has always, been to provide paid positions for some very connected blind folks. Think about it. Why do we even need our own system of libraries? Hundreds of thousands of local lending libraries throughout the US provide a range of print, audio, visual, and electronic media to lend to the masses every day without the same knee jerk concerns of copyright violation. You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? There is no reason why our nations infrastructure of lending libraries could not be the venues for electronic media not just for the sighted but blind alike but that would take payola out of the pockets of quite a few blind folks now wouldn't it? Yes folks you cannot leave profit out of this conversation, sad to say. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 2:16 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing The reason in my mind is that you are signing up for a service provided by the US government. This service is free of charge, and you are agreeing to it's terms when you sign up for it. The law enabling this service aims to provide material free to the blind while protecting the rights of the publishers. This program is intended for all blind citizens of the US and not just those with PC's. This is not a business or profit making venture, but is paid for by tax dollars, of which I'm a tax payer. Your analogies to Sony and Apple just don't apply. Even though we have the luxury of keeping the books around and playing them on multiple players, it doesn't change the fact that this is a library, and we're borrowing these books. BTW, there is no way to listen to these books on a PC. You need a player provided for free by the NLS or you can purchase several different book players. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:48 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Kevin, the point is this. Why should you, after obtaining the NLS books, have to go and get one of the NLS approved players just to enjoy the privelege of being able to listen to the book while not at the computer? That would be like Soni putting out an album with copy protection that limitted what you could play it on to CD players manufactured by Soni. Soni already tried the whole copy protection to prevent people from putting the contents of CD's on their computers, or copying them to other CD's. A pretty high-profile lawsuit later, they don't do that anymore. Apple tried to say you could only put music you purchased from iTunes on your iPod. You couldn't burn that to CD, or play it in anything else that wasn't either your iPod or iTunes. Specificly, the version of iTunes on the computer to which it was downloaded. Without getting into the nitty gritty details, let's just say they don't do that anymore either. The same applies to NLS. The only reason it hasn't changed yet is because there's no reason for them to, according to them. Hence, people will continue to break the copy protection anyway. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Minor Sent: April 18, 2010 6:02 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Hi John and list. I'm going to comment on several messages that I've seen on this topic. First, John, I wonder if your direct boss is the owner of the station. If he is, the station may get into trouble if publishers find out he is allowing material sent to the station is being copied.
RE: It's Still Stealing
What I meant (in case there is any confusion) is that a sighted person can break copyright law just as easily as a blind person but they don't face the same restrictions as blind people do. I thought I made that quite clear. Again I go back to the Lazyboy recliner analogy. A sighted lending library does not tell its patrons how they may read their borrowed material but BARD does go that extra step with blind people with its for profit players. The secondary and maybe far worse effect of this double standard is that it makes blind people appear as if we are more prone to piracy then the general public. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:02 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Here are your words frank: frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? What did you mean by this? - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit the bill for that LazyBoy. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature they're boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the way. Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new digital players and someone is making tons of money building and selling them to the government and someone in said government is receiving incentives to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it is all about money? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download your copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no legal authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that copy. Not only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even the most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example of iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. Apple no longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn them to a CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true
Re: It's Still Stealing
I don't follow. How is the copy protection scheme meant to sell players? Who's supposed to make money with this scheme? I think the copy protection scheme is meant to do exactly what it claims to and that's reassure the publishers that this material produced and provided freely to the blind isn't going to compete with commercially available audio books. If it's so easily cracked, wouldn't that also undermine these sales that you're talking about? Somehow I doubt the people behind the NLS are as devious as you paint them out to be. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:02 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: Well said and it should be noted that the copy protection scheme currently used by NLS is designed to sell players, either to the tax payers or to individuals, not protect authors since ven little 12 year old Jimmy on his mommies laptop can crack that copy protection and as you correctly noted authors don't get the lion's share of audio book revenue. The person you were replying to said that people on this list think they can do whatever they want with a MP3 once they download it. I don't think anyone here said so much and that is exactally the type of paranoia that feeds into this type of hysteria that only lines the pockets of the RIAA and publishers and hurts the artists/authors and consumers. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 12:38 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Audiobook sales are pretty much exactly like album sales. The publishers see most of the revenue from it, whereas the authors get stuck with very little. And, indeed, there are quite a few authors now who are releasing their books online first, knowing they'll be downloaded, given away, whatever, and knowing that'll transfer over into more direct interactions with readers. That, in turn, will generate more revenue that goes directly to the author. Why do you think publishers are now getting all uppity because people are being drawn more to ebooks? They don't get as much of a kickback from it--the author gets more of the money then. That's why you see, if you actually bother to read about it, publishers pulling their selections from Amazon and companies like that. If a book is good enough, people will pay for it anyway, whether they've purchased it or not. Because, and rightly so, authors do deserve to be compensated for the work. But they're more likely to pay for it in methods that go directly to the author if that's the case, and bypass the publishers entirely. Also, though I suspect pointing it out will serve only to be ignored, there's a ton and a half of evidence that says piracy doesn't have nearly the effect on sales of any variety as the industry would like to have you believe. In fact, sales in certain industries are actually inicreasing, be there piracy or no piracy. But best not tell that to the lobbiests just in case they brand you a pirate by association. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature they're boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the way. Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new digital players and someone is making tons of money building and selling them to the government and someone in said government is receiving incentives to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it is all about money? -Original Message- From:
RE: It's Still Stealing
Most thinking people understand both sides of this issue and will do what they choose to do in the end so could we please drop it! Judy -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Frank Ventura Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 12:13 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Are you accusing me (or anyone else on this list) of copying books? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:54 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing i am quite sure that if your library knew that you were copying whole books that you borrowed from them they would address that issue with you. - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That is where you are wrong. There are many folks whom have made very handsome profits from BARD. Those players don't just fall from the sky you know. They cost money to make and design and that is profit for someone. Also the very existence of BARD is, and has always, been to provide paid positions for some very connected blind folks. Think about it. Why do we even need our own system of libraries? Hundreds of thousands of local lending libraries throughout the US provide a range of print, audio, visual, and electronic media to lend to the masses every day without the same knee jerk concerns of copyright violation. You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? There is no reason why our nations infrastructure of lending libraries could not be the venues for electronic media not just for the sighted but blind alike but that would take payola out of the pockets of quite a few blind folks now wouldn't it? Yes folks you cannot leave profit out of this conversation, sad to say. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 2:16 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing The reason in my mind is that you are signing up for a service provided by the US government. This service is free of charge, and you are agreeing to it's terms when you sign up for it. The law enabling this service aims to provide material free to the blind while protecting the rights of the publishers. This program is intended for all blind citizens of the US and not just those with PC's. This is not a business or profit making venture, but is paid for by tax dollars, of which I'm a tax payer. Your analogies to Sony and Apple just don't apply. Even though we have the luxury of keeping the books around and playing them on multiple players, it doesn't change the fact that this is a library, and we're borrowing these books. BTW, there is no way to listen to these books on a PC. You need a player provided for free by the NLS or you can purchase several different book players. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:48 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Kevin, the point is this. Why should you, after obtaining the NLS books, have to go and get one of the NLS approved players just to enjoy the privelege of being able to listen to the book while not at the computer? That would be like Soni putting out an album with copy protection that limitted what you could play it on to CD players manufactured by Soni. Soni already tried the whole copy protection to prevent people from putting the contents of CD's on their computers, or copying them to other CD's. A pretty high-profile lawsuit later, they don't do that anymore. Apple tried to say you could only put music you purchased from iTunes on your iPod. You couldn't burn that to CD, or play it in anything else that wasn't either your iPod or iTunes. Specificly, the version of iTunes on the computer to which it was downloaded. Without getting into the nitty gritty details, let's just say they don't do that anymore either. The same applies to NLS. The only reason it hasn't changed yet is because there's no reason for them to, according to them. Hence, people will continue to break the copy protection anyway. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Minor
RE: It's Still Stealing
I agree that publishers would go after the libraries if they felt that their material was being copied but we never hear of this happening so I assume it is not a significant issue. So back to my point that if mainstream lending libraries don't have such drastic restrictions on their loaned material and seem to be relatively trouble free why should BARD be considerably more proactive? Again I ask are blind folks more predispositioned to piracy or is just to promote the sale of players, I suspect the latter. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 12:26 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Copying DVD's you borrow from Blockbuster violates your terms and conditions with Blockbuster. It's also stealing that DVD from the DVD's distributor. Just because they're not doing more to proactively prevent you from copying the DVD, through implementing some DVD copy protection, doesn't make it legal for you to copy the DVD. I'm not sure how you know this isn't effecting blockbuster's bottom line. Given their financial woes of late, they obviously have a lot of pressure on their bottom line. I also disagree that your library doesn't care if you're making copies of their books. If publishers thought that library patrons were making copies of library books and that was cutting into their bottom line then they'd go after the libraries or stop making books available to the libraries. This isn't much of an issue with hardcopies, but it's obviously more of an issue for digital material where the copying and distribution process is so easy and inexpensive. I suppose it's true that libraries don't care what MP3 player you use, but as with most material on Overdrive, they do want you to play it on a player capable of playing DRM protected WMA files. The original DRM protected WMA file will also expire after two weeks and then according to your terms and conditions, you are responsible for destroying any copies you made for your own personal use. If I'm following your logic then it would be OK if everyone proactively pursued some sort of copy protection. Your argument seems to be that copy protection isn't bad just the fact that the methods of copy protection are inconsistent. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 10:45 AM, James Homuth wrote: They may not openly allow you to copy a book, but they're not openly stopping you either. It's the same thing with renting a movie from Blockbuster and copying it onto a blank DVD. They don't openly allow you, but Blockbuster's not doing much to discourage you either. And it hasn't exactly hurt their bottom line any. At least, not anymore than places like Netflicks do, who actually allow you to stream movies online right from their website, legally. Your local library's the same way. Whether or not you take the book home, copy it, and bring it back, or not, isn't hurting their bottom line any. At the end of the day, you still only check the book out once. The library probably doesn't really care what you do with it afterwards, so long as it comes back in the same condition it left in. I could go into my library, check out a book, give it to you for a week to read if you don't have a card at that particular library, then turn it back in at the end of the week. Did you copy it during that week you had it? Maybe, maybe not. Do I care? No. Does the library? No, so long as I still bring the original book back at the end of the week. And again, just to drive the point home, the public library doesn't care what you use to play that audiobook you checked out from them. You don't need to check out a specific MP3 player just to be able to listen to it. So really, that's a pretty bad comparison to BARD if you really want to stick to it. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: April 19, 2010 11:02 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List; PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Here are your words frank: frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? What did you mean by this? - Original Message - From: Frank Venturafrank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion Listpc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to
Re: It's Still Stealing
I don't agree. Someone else on this list talked about the more famous RIAA law suits, and to my knowledge none of these were directed against blind individuals. I'm not aware of a single case where the NLS went after a blind patron. Copy protection schemes implemented by Sony, Apple, Audible and so on are not directed at the blind. Apple, Audible and Overdrive content are all restricted to a certain set of players, or used to be, and again this has nothing to do with the blind. I don't think there's a double standard here. I won't even go near the recliner analogy. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:17 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: What I meant (in case there is any confusion) is that a sighted person can break copyright law just as easily as a blind person but they don't face the same restrictions as blind people do. I thought I made that quite clear. Again I go back to the Lazyboy recliner analogy. A sighted lending library does not tell its patrons how they may read their borrowed material but BARD does go that extra step with blind people with its for profit players. The secondary and maybe far worse effect of this double standard is that it makes blind people appear as if we are more prone to piracy then the general public. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:02 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Here are your words frank: frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? What did you mean by this? - Original Message - From: Frank Venturafrank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion Listpc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit the bill for that LazyBoy. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature they're boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the way. Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new digital players and someone is making tons of money building and selling them to the government and someone in said government is receiving incentives to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it is all about money?
RE: It's Still Stealing
So, you are saying that the folks who design these copy protection scheme, proprietary players and sell it to Mr. and Mrs. Tax payer aren't making a profit? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:20 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing I don't follow. How is the copy protection scheme meant to sell players? Who's supposed to make money with this scheme? I think the copy protection scheme is meant to do exactly what it claims to and that's reassure the publishers that this material produced and provided freely to the blind isn't going to compete with commercially available audio books. If it's so easily cracked, wouldn't that also undermine these sales that you're talking about? Somehow I doubt the people behind the NLS are as devious as you paint them out to be. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:02 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: Well said and it should be noted that the copy protection scheme currently used by NLS is designed to sell players, either to the tax payers or to individuals, not protect authors since ven little 12 year old Jimmy on his mommies laptop can crack that copy protection and as you correctly noted authors don't get the lion's share of audio book revenue. The person you were replying to said that people on this list think they can do whatever they want with a MP3 once they download it. I don't think anyone here said so much and that is exactally the type of paranoia that feeds into this type of hysteria that only lines the pockets of the RIAA and publishers and hurts the artists/authors and consumers. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 12:38 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Audiobook sales are pretty much exactly like album sales. The publishers see most of the revenue from it, whereas the authors get stuck with very little. And, indeed, there are quite a few authors now who are releasing their books online first, knowing they'll be downloaded, given away, whatever, and knowing that'll transfer over into more direct interactions with readers. That, in turn, will generate more revenue that goes directly to the author. Why do you think publishers are now getting all uppity because people are being drawn more to ebooks? They don't get as much of a kickback from it--the author gets more of the money then. That's why you see, if you actually bother to read about it, publishers pulling their selections from Amazon and companies like that. If a book is good enough, people will pay for it anyway, whether they've purchased it or not. Because, and rightly so, authors do deserve to be compensated for the work. But they're more likely to pay for it in methods that go directly to the author if that's the case, and bypass the publishers entirely. Also, though I suspect pointing it out will serve only to be ignored, there's a ton and a half of evidence that says piracy doesn't have nearly the effect on sales of any variety as the industry would like to have you believe. In fact, sales in certain industries are actually inicreasing, be there piracy or no piracy. But best not tell that to the lobbiests just in case they brand you a pirate by association. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature they're boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the way. Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian
RE: It's Still Stealing
OK if you don't think there is a double standard then stand in front of your average lending library in AnyTown USA and tell each person coming out with a book that they will have to spend three bills of their paycheck (or tax dollars) to be able to read that book and watch their reaction. Still no double standard? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:27 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing I don't agree. Someone else on this list talked about the more famous RIAA law suits, and to my knowledge none of these were directed against blind individuals. I'm not aware of a single case where the NLS went after a blind patron. Copy protection schemes implemented by Sony, Apple, Audible and so on are not directed at the blind. Apple, Audible and Overdrive content are all restricted to a certain set of players, or used to be, and again this has nothing to do with the blind. I don't think there's a double standard here. I won't even go near the recliner analogy. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:17 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: What I meant (in case there is any confusion) is that a sighted person can break copyright law just as easily as a blind person but they don't face the same restrictions as blind people do. I thought I made that quite clear. Again I go back to the Lazyboy recliner analogy. A sighted lending library does not tell its patrons how they may read their borrowed material but BARD does go that extra step with blind people with its for profit players. The secondary and maybe far worse effect of this double standard is that it makes blind people appear as if we are more prone to piracy then the general public. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:02 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Here are your words frank: frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? What did you mean by this? - Original Message - From: Frank Venturafrank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion Listpc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit the bill for that LazyBoy. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature they're boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the
Re: It's Still Stealing
I'm not sure if the statement if you actually bother to read about it is directed at me or not, but if so then I can assure you that I've read quite a bit about this issue. If you paid attention to my posts, you'll see that I never defend RIAA. I actually agree with everything you say, and I've said on this list that RIAA needs to change their model. The only point I've made is that copying protected material for anything other than your own personal use is illegal. The courts have backed this up. Just because RIAA is evil doesn't make this legal. BTW, I am aware of the studies you've mentioned that piracy isn't as big a hit on the bottom line as RIAA would have you believe, but I've also seen studies that says it is. You can imagine who publishes these different studies. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 11:38 AM, James Homuth wrote: Audiobook sales are pretty much exactly like album sales. The publishers see most of the revenue from it, whereas the authors get stuck with very little. And, indeed, there are quite a few authors now who are releasing their books online first, knowing they'll be downloaded, given away, whatever, and knowing that'll transfer over into more direct interactions with readers. That, in turn, will generate more revenue that goes directly to the author. Why do you think publishers are now getting all uppity because people are being drawn more to ebooks? They don't get as much of a kickback from it--the author gets more of the money then. That's why you see, if you actually bother to read about it, publishers pulling their selections from Amazon and companies like that. If a book is good enough, people will pay for it anyway, whether they've purchased it or not. Because, and rightly so, authors do deserve to be compensated for the work. But they're more likely to pay for it in methods that go directly to the author if that's the case, and bypass the publishers entirely. Also, though I suspect pointing it out will serve only to be ignored, there's a ton and a half of evidence that says piracy doesn't have nearly the effect on sales of any variety as the industry would like to have you believe. In fact, sales in certain industries are actually inicreasing, be there piracy or no piracy. But best not tell that to the lobbiests just in case they brand you a pirate by association. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature they're boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the way. Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new digital players and someone is making tons of money building and selling them to the government and someone in said government is receiving incentives to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it is all about money? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download your copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no legal authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that copy. Not only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even the most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example of iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. Apple no longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn
Re: It's Still Stealing
I'm confused. Who's paying three bills? Where's the analogy? -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:31 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: OK if you don't think there is a double standard then stand in front of your average lending library in AnyTown USA and tell each person coming out with a book that they will have to spend three bills of their paycheck (or tax dollars) to be able to read that book and watch their reaction. Still no double standard? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:27 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing I don't agree. Someone else on this list talked about the more famous RIAA law suits, and to my knowledge none of these were directed against blind individuals. I'm not aware of a single case where the NLS went after a blind patron. Copy protection schemes implemented by Sony, Apple, Audible and so on are not directed at the blind. Apple, Audible and Overdrive content are all restricted to a certain set of players, or used to be, and again this has nothing to do with the blind. I don't think there's a double standard here. I won't even go near the recliner analogy. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:17 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: What I meant (in case there is any confusion) is that a sighted person can break copyright law just as easily as a blind person but they don't face the same restrictions as blind people do. I thought I made that quite clear. Again I go back to the Lazyboy recliner analogy. A sighted lending library does not tell its patrons how they may read their borrowed material but BARD does go that extra step with blind people with its for profit players. The secondary and maybe far worse effect of this double standard is that it makes blind people appear as if we are more prone to piracy then the general public. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:02 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Here are your words frank: frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? What did you mean by this? - Original Message - From: Frank Venturafrank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion Listpc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit the bill for that LazyBoy. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal
RE: It's Still Stealing
That was for a BARD player, either we pay it directly or through our tax dollars. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:38 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing I'm confused. Who's paying three bills? Where's the analogy? -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:31 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: OK if you don't think there is a double standard then stand in front of your average lending library in AnyTown USA and tell each person coming out with a book that they will have to spend three bills of their paycheck (or tax dollars) to be able to read that book and watch their reaction. Still no double standard? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:27 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing I don't agree. Someone else on this list talked about the more famous RIAA law suits, and to my knowledge none of these were directed against blind individuals. I'm not aware of a single case where the NLS went after a blind patron. Copy protection schemes implemented by Sony, Apple, Audible and so on are not directed at the blind. Apple, Audible and Overdrive content are all restricted to a certain set of players, or used to be, and again this has nothing to do with the blind. I don't think there's a double standard here. I won't even go near the recliner analogy. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:17 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: What I meant (in case there is any confusion) is that a sighted person can break copyright law just as easily as a blind person but they don't face the same restrictions as blind people do. I thought I made that quite clear. Again I go back to the Lazyboy recliner analogy. A sighted lending library does not tell its patrons how they may read their borrowed material but BARD does go that extra step with blind people with its for profit players. The secondary and maybe far worse effect of this double standard is that it makes blind people appear as if we are more prone to piracy then the general public. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:02 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Here are your words frank: frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? What did you mean by this? - Original Message - From: Frank Venturafrank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion Listpc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit the bill for that LazyBoy. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS
Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro
I think that if I consider switching, that I will approach it with an open mind, as well. I am impressed with the way IPhone interacts with Voiceover on the phone that I tried. I'm wondering, because I've heard people say that it's a completely different system to learn. I'm just considering, incase I might decide to switch at some point. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 3:42 AM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro I didn't have any trouble switching from one to the other, I suppose this was because i took to the Mac with an Open mind, yep a new system but no! I'm not on my own. Plenty of great tools and resources to help you including the built-in reference material and interactive tutorials for Voiceover, the numpad and keyboard commander which are customisable etc. On 19/04/2010, at 5:04 PM, Gary Wood wrote: Everything about Mac sounds good, especially with the Voiceover! But if I go that way, I'll have to learn a new system all over again! Does Mac seem easier or harder to learn than Windows? I know that it'll be different. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:14 AM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro not only that but I have yet to find a mac screen reader radio automation software fore that platform - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 5:06 PM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Flip For Mac is the replacement for Windows Media Play for the Mac, Microsoft recommend it for all the most up-to-date WMA audio/video features, its a third party product - in other words not developped by Microsoft and is updated regularly. The player - which integrates with Quicktime - is available free, other tools such as Video capturing etc you have to pay for but the prices are fairly reasonable. On 18/04/2010, at 10:03 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Dain, I done this in 2007. I think Microsoft still has it upon their website, but you'll have to do some digging in order to find it. You said something about Flip working well with Quick Time. What is Flip? John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 4:31 PM Subject: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Well I don't know how you're going to go with Windows Media Player for the Mac as - from what I understand - it was discontinued for the Mac quite some time ago, you use Flip For Mac instead which integrates with Quicktime. On 18/04/2010, at 4:49 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Hank, I only keep track of the music that we play at the radio station. If I hear something I like, I will either save it as a wave file and or a flack file and copy it to a flash drive just so that I can take it home with me. My computer in my office, has Quick Time on it, which is more easier to use on a Mack then it is to use on a pc. They don't know this, but I downloaded Windows Media Player for Macks and installed it on that computer. But if you're asking about the computer in the control room, that one is running the Linux system. But they're looking to switch that one out for a Mack system. The reason for this is, coming by a screen reader that will work with the Linux system, is very costly. So a system that already has a screen reader built in to it, is more cost efficient. I don't know what they will be running on it yet, but I'll keep the list posted when I find out. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 2:54 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered what software you using at radio station? I am in search fore radio station mac software fore my internet station Hank - Original Message - From: DJ DOCTOR P djdoct...@att.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered High Dain, Not here at the house. But I have a Mack in my office at work. I work for a loco radio station here in my home town. I hope to have a Mack of my very own by my 38th birthday which is, a few months away. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 12:17 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered Pardon my ignorance but do you have a Mac to try it on? This is Mac software we're
RE: It's Still Stealing
I don't think thats the truth at all they have just made it so we can read books on the go the same as anyone else. Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Frank Ventura Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 12:18 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing What I meant (in case there is any confusion) is that a sighted person can break copyright law just as easily as a blind person but they don't face the same restrictions as blind people do. I thought I made that quite clear. Again I go back to the Lazyboy recliner analogy. A sighted lending library does not tell its patrons how they may read their borrowed material but BARD does go that extra step with blind people with its for profit players. The secondary and maybe far worse effect of this double standard is that it makes blind people appear as if we are more prone to piracy then the general public. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:02 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Here are your words frank: frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? What did you mean by this? - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit the bill for that LazyBoy. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature they're boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the way. Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new digital players and someone is making tons of money building and selling them to the government and someone in said government is receiving incentives to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it is all about money? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download your copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no legal authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that copy. Not only is
Re: It's Still Stealing
Well, here we go again! - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:10 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new digital players and someone is making tons of money building and selling them to the government and someone in said government is receiving incentives to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it is all about money? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download your copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no legal authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that copy. Not only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even the most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example of iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. Apple no longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn them to a CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true with BARD. And it's business models like that that convince people to do things you would call stealing. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:51 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and down load the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is tom or anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it steeling? Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc on in the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're going to want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a CD, or copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number of things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do something else with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though they have legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means to do so. Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people should be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of the world and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their acquisitions. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify for their service by being blind and having a player that they authroize. There is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare type services. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am concerned. Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Ok, so you say, it's still stealing. Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you download music and audio books without having to pay anything for it? Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and audio books without having to pay a dime for it. Explain that
Re: It's Still Stealing
My tax dollars also pay for that municipal library, so I still don't get it. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:41 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: That was for a BARD player, either we pay it directly or through our tax dollars. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:38 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing I'm confused. Who's paying three bills? Where's the analogy? -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:31 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: OK if you don't think there is a double standard then stand in front of your average lending library in AnyTown USA and tell each person coming out with a book that they will have to spend three bills of their paycheck (or tax dollars) to be able to read that book and watch their reaction. Still no double standard? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:27 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing I don't agree. Someone else on this list talked about the more famous RIAA law suits, and to my knowledge none of these were directed against blind individuals. I'm not aware of a single case where the NLS went after a blind patron. Copy protection schemes implemented by Sony, Apple, Audible and so on are not directed at the blind. Apple, Audible and Overdrive content are all restricted to a certain set of players, or used to be, and again this has nothing to do with the blind. I don't think there's a double standard here. I won't even go near the recliner analogy. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:17 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: What I meant (in case there is any confusion) is that a sighted person can break copyright law just as easily as a blind person but they don't face the same restrictions as blind people do. I thought I made that quite clear. Again I go back to the Lazyboy recliner analogy. A sighted lending library does not tell its patrons how they may read their borrowed material but BARD does go that extra step with blind people with its for profit players. The secondary and maybe far worse effect of this double standard is that it makes blind people appear as if we are more prone to piracy then the general public. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:02 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Here are your words frank: frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? What did you mean by this? - Original Message - From: Frank Venturafrank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion Listpc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit the bill for that LazyBoy. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is
If it's stealing, then please explain...
... Why it is sales and other revenue in every industry supposedly effected by this so-called theft continue to increase. Year over year, DVD sales, music sales, and movie rentals have undergone a significant increase, so says just about every independant study not in the pocket of the RIAA and MPAA. Which, escentially, is just about everyone who isn't the RIAA and MPAA. Even online methods that are considered legal (Netflicks, etc) have seen increases to their rental and streaming revenue, in spite of the fact places like Blockbuster are establishing agreements with studios to arange it so that Netflicks doesn't see new releases from those studios until 28 days after Blockbuster receives those same new releases. Also, while you're at it, kindly explain why it is sales of books in just about every format continue to increase, in spite of the fact industry lobbiests continue to insist they're all taking a drastic nose dive the likes of which haven't been seen since the Titanic sank. Additionally, explain this to me. If getting your hands on a copy of a book, CD or movie you haven't paid for is so illegal/immoral/otherwise a sin on the same level as breaking into a store and taking something, why is the exchanging/giving away/otherwise distributing of actual, hard copy books still so popular? It's far from uncommon for avid book readers to read something, then pass it on to someone else to read, who will then pass it on to someone else while at the same time passing something they'd just finished reading back the other way. That's not considered illegal, and has been going on arguably since the invention of books. But yet, the same copy of that book is being passed from one hand to another. It hasn't been paid for by these other people. It hasn't resulted in any compensation whatsoever to the author from these other people for the privelege of reading that book. And no one's thrown a fit over billions upon billions of lost sales dollars because each and every one of those people who dared crack that book didn't pony up the money for their own copy before doing so. Why is that so different from the digital era, in spite of the fact the only real change is now if someone else wants to read that book, the original buyer doesn't have to give up their copy? I'd really appreciate hearing the explanation for that from some of these folks who seem to be under the impression we've all joined the rip off the author/musician/actor bandwagon here. Anyone? To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
RE: It's Still Stealing
That's not a difference at all. BARD is still saying you can read this book, but only in the way we say, at the locations we say, and in the methods we say. If you want to draw comparisons between BARD and a public library, you don't own those books either. Yet, you still have more freedom to listen to/read those books wherever, however, and whenever you want. The only difference is BARD isn't forcing you to delete those books after a week, whereas the library escentially is. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: April 19, 2010 3:37 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing the only small difference with BARD is that you don't buy the book from BARD so you own no part of it even though its on your computer. - Original Message - From: James Homuth ja...@the-jdh.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:36 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc on in the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact same reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands on something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're going to want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a CD, or copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number of things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do something else with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though they have legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means to do so. Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people should be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of the world and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their acquisitions. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify for their service by being blind and having a player that they authroize. There is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare type services. - Original Message - From: mitchell mitchellgre...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am concerned. Mitchell -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Ok, so you say, it's still stealing. Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you download music and audio books without having to pay anything for it? Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and audio books without having to pay a dime for it. Explain that one to me, if you can! John. - Original Message - From: Tom t...@pc-audio.org To: pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM Subject: It's Still Stealing It's still stealing whether or not your boss gives you permission to copy it. Tom ** Message From: DJ DOCTOR P ** High Tom, I don't do it unless my boss gives me the green light to do it. If he says yes, then I do it. But if he says no, then it doesn't happen. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: It's Still Stealing
I was addressing a comment you eluded to in an earlier post which I posted in another post later. No accusation just commenting. - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:12 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Are you accusing me (or anyone else on this list) of copying books? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:54 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing i am quite sure that if your library knew that you were copying whole books that you borrowed from them they would address that issue with you. - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing That is where you are wrong. There are many folks whom have made very handsome profits from BARD. Those players don't just fall from the sky you know. They cost money to make and design and that is profit for someone. Also the very existence of BARD is, and has always, been to provide paid positions for some very connected blind folks. Think about it. Why do we even need our own system of libraries? Hundreds of thousands of local lending libraries throughout the US provide a range of print, audio, visual, and electronic media to lend to the masses every day without the same knee jerk concerns of copyright violation. You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? There is no reason why our nations infrastructure of lending libraries could not be the venues for electronic media not just for the sighted but blind alike but that would take payola out of the pockets of quite a few blind folks now wouldn't it? Yes folks you cannot leave profit out of this conversation, sad to say. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 2:16 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing The reason in my mind is that you are signing up for a service provided by the US government. This service is free of charge, and you are agreeing to it's terms when you sign up for it. The law enabling this service aims to provide material free to the blind while protecting the rights of the publishers. This program is intended for all blind citizens of the US and not just those with PC's. This is not a business or profit making venture, but is paid for by tax dollars, of which I'm a tax payer. Your analogies to Sony and Apple just don't apply. Even though we have the luxury of keeping the books around and playing them on multiple players, it doesn't change the fact that this is a library, and we're borrowing these books. BTW, there is no way to listen to these books on a PC. You need a player provided for free by the NLS or you can purchase several different book players. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:48 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Kevin, the point is this. Why should you, after obtaining the NLS books, have to go and get one of the NLS approved players just to enjoy the privelege of being able to listen to the book while not at the computer? That would be like Soni putting out an album with copy protection that limitted what you could play it on to CD players manufactured by Soni. Soni already tried the whole copy protection to prevent people from putting the contents of CD's on their computers, or copying them to other CD's. A pretty high-profile lawsuit later, they don't do that anymore. Apple tried to say you could only put music you purchased from iTunes on your iPod. You couldn't burn that to CD, or play it in anything else that wasn't either your iPod or iTunes. Specificly, the version of iTunes on the computer to which it was downloaded. Without getting into the nitty gritty details, let's just say they don't do that anymore either. The same applies to NLS. The only reason it hasn't changed yet is because there's no reason for them to, according to them. Hence, people will continue to break the copy protection anyway. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Minor Sent: April 18, 2010 6:02 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Hi John and
Re: It's Still Stealing
Using your annalogy you have the right to go in and check out that same book and have someone read it to you. whether you pay that reader or not is up to you. - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:31 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing OK if you don't think there is a double standard then stand in front of your average lending library in AnyTown USA and tell each person coming out with a book that they will have to spend three bills of their paycheck (or tax dollars) to be able to read that book and watch their reaction. Still no double standard? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:27 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing I don't agree. Someone else on this list talked about the more famous RIAA law suits, and to my knowledge none of these were directed against blind individuals. I'm not aware of a single case where the NLS went after a blind patron. Copy protection schemes implemented by Sony, Apple, Audible and so on are not directed at the blind. Apple, Audible and Overdrive content are all restricted to a certain set of players, or used to be, and again this has nothing to do with the blind. I don't think there's a double standard here. I won't even go near the recliner analogy. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:17 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: What I meant (in case there is any confusion) is that a sighted person can break copyright law just as easily as a blind person but they don't face the same restrictions as blind people do. I thought I made that quite clear. Again I go back to the Lazyboy recliner analogy. A sighted lending library does not tell its patrons how they may read their borrowed material but BARD does go that extra step with blind people with its for profit players. The secondary and maybe far worse effect of this double standard is that it makes blind people appear as if we are more prone to piracy then the general public. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:02 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Here are your words frank: frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? What did you mean by this? - Original Message - From: Frank Venturafrank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion Listpc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit the bill for that LazyBoy. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and you should report that. I also don't see how the
Re: It's Still Stealing
I believe he is speaking of the cost of such players as the Victor stream, Book Sense - Original Message - From: Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:38 AM Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing I'm confused. Who's paying three bills? Where's the analogy? -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:31 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: OK if you don't think there is a double standard then stand in front of your average lending library in AnyTown USA and tell each person coming out with a book that they will have to spend three bills of their paycheck (or tax dollars) to be able to read that book and watch their reaction. Still no double standard? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:27 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing I don't agree. Someone else on this list talked about the more famous RIAA law suits, and to my knowledge none of these were directed against blind individuals. I'm not aware of a single case where the NLS went after a blind patron. Copy protection schemes implemented by Sony, Apple, Audible and so on are not directed at the blind. Apple, Audible and Overdrive content are all restricted to a certain set of players, or used to be, and again this has nothing to do with the blind. I don't think there's a double standard here. I won't even go near the recliner analogy. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:17 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: What I meant (in case there is any confusion) is that a sighted person can break copyright law just as easily as a blind person but they don't face the same restrictions as blind people do. I thought I made that quite clear. Again I go back to the Lazyboy recliner analogy. A sighted lending library does not tell its patrons how they may read their borrowed material but BARD does go that extra step with blind people with its for profit players. The secondary and maybe far worse effect of this double standard is that it makes blind people appear as if we are more prone to piracy then the general public. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:02 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Here are your words frank: frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? What did you mean by this? - Original Message - From: Frank Venturafrank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion Listpc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit the bill for that LazyBoy. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're
Re: If it's stealing, then please explain...
the closest I can come is that a cd or book that is handed to someone else would be a rare incident that it is handed to a thousand people within a week. yet, this can happen with digital material. - Original Message - From: James Homuth ja...@the-jdh.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: If it's stealing, then please explain... ... Why it is sales and other revenue in every industry supposedly effected by this so-called theft continue to increase. Year over year, DVD sales, music sales, and movie rentals have undergone a significant increase, so says just about every independant study not in the pocket of the RIAA and MPAA. Which, escentially, is just about everyone who isn't the RIAA and MPAA. Even online methods that are considered legal (Netflicks, etc) have seen increases to their rental and streaming revenue, in spite of the fact places like Blockbuster are establishing agreements with studios to arange it so that Netflicks doesn't see new releases from those studios until 28 days after Blockbuster receives those same new releases. Also, while you're at it, kindly explain why it is sales of books in just about every format continue to increase, in spite of the fact industry lobbiests continue to insist they're all taking a drastic nose dive the likes of which haven't been seen since the Titanic sank. Additionally, explain this to me. If getting your hands on a copy of a book, CD or movie you haven't paid for is so illegal/immoral/otherwise a sin on the same level as breaking into a store and taking something, why is the exchanging/giving away/otherwise distributing of actual, hard copy books still so popular? It's far from uncommon for avid book readers to read something, then pass it on to someone else to read, who will then pass it on to someone else while at the same time passing something they'd just finished reading back the other way. That's not considered illegal, and has been going on arguably since the invention of books. But yet, the same copy of that book is being passed from one hand to another. It hasn't been paid for by these other people. It hasn't resulted in any compensation whatsoever to the author from these other people for the privelege of reading that book. And no one's thrown a fit over billions upon billions of lost sales dollars because each and every one of those people who dared crack that book didn't pony up the money for their own copy before doing so. Why is that so different from the digital era, in spite of the fact the only real change is now if someone else wants to read that book, the original buyer doesn't have to give up their copy? I'd really appreciate hearing the explanation for that from some of these folks who seem to be under the impression we've all joined the rip off the author/musician/actor bandwagon here. Anyone? To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
RE: So I bought a Digital radio..
Hi, Dane and Bob. You've had this friendly disagreement about the distance between Melbourne and Brisbane before. So, with the BARD debate still raging, I thought I could at least settle this dispute once and for all. Thanks for all your wonderful contributions to this list. Now, here's the WikiAnswers entry describing the distance between your two fair cities: From Melbourne to Brisbane by road is a distance of 1709km (1061 miles) and takes about 21 hours to travel. This is without rest breaks so, ideally, the trip should be taken over three days. This is the quickest route, taking you the inland way through Seymour, West Wyalong, Parkes and Narrabri. The flight travel distance is 1370km (851 miles), and travel time from Melbourne to Brisbane is around 2 hours, whilst from Brisbane to Melbourne is closer to 2 hrs 20 mins, depending on the airline. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane Trethowan Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:04 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: So I bought a Digital radio.. howdy! Couple of things here, Brisbane is about 1000 miles north rather than 1500, you're halfway to Cairns smile. Thanks for the tip about the Ccrane web site, will this aerial work on the high frequency bands this radio receives? So for channel selection and here's a brief summary of what I found out through experimenting. You're best to use the jog dial when selecting channels rather than the up and down buttons and it helps to know how the stations are laid out, for example in Melbourne stations are stored in the radio in alfabetical order so I have an idea where everything is. If you want to go down say 5 stations, turn the jog wheel clockwise 5 clicks and press the select button. If you have sight you'll see the display scroll every click of the jog wheel. You're quite right, I think the Roberts is the only set with a line-out jack which you can buy unless you want to buy a DAB+ audiophile tuner and that will be my next project, either that or one DAB+ receiver which will plug into a computer, I'm yet to see one of those. Thanks for clarify the different digital radio standards, they call it HD Radio in the states and I think its based on the IBOC standard, makes a hell of a mess of the AM broadcast band I believe smile. In country Australia they're talking about DRM as a digital radio standard because of the long distances, won't go into all the tech specs here but basically you can listen to the signal on your standard AM radio, if you have a DRM compatible receiver then the extra information carried with the audio will be decoded and you'll get a FM quality audio output. Cheers! On 18/03/2010, at 6:48 AM, Robert Nelson wrote: I should point out that Dane's comments are only relevant for list members living in Australia. The DAB system used in the USA is different because of the early adoption of the DAB standard in that country. DAB in the USA also seems to have strong competition from satellite radio which can offer a greater range of content. The Roberts Ecologic 4 is a radio originally designed for DAB radio in Britain but has been modified to meet the DAB+ standard used in Australia. I live in Brisbane, Queensland, which is about 1500 miles north of Melbourne where Dane lives. In Brisbane there are more than 20 digital channels offered by AM or FM broadcasters and an odd collection of special interest groups (mostly non-English speaking). I have a Roberts Ecologic 4 and like it very much, partly because it is a portable and partly because it has a line out that llows it to be connected to a hi fi system for remarkably good results. As far as I can tell, most digital radios being sold in Australia do not have the line out feature. The Ecologic is a little quirky in its controls. You can't tune across the digital channels in the conventional manner. You have to press the up or down key then the enter key to move from one channel to another. As far as I can tell, you can't press the up key 3 times and then press the enter key and hope to move up 3 channels. Acquiring and holding a digital signal can be a problem if you are getting further away from the transmitters. The Ecologic 4 makes a sound remarkably like a bronx cheer when it is having difficulty holding a digital signal. However, digital radio is no different to FM in signal degradation the further you get away from the transmitter. Dane, if it becomes too aggravating, look at the C Crane company web pages because they have an excellent FM antenna for marginal areas that may improve your reception of the digital transmissions. The only other complaint I have about the Ecologic 4 is that it supposedly has 10 presets. Five are accessed using a shift key but I have yet to be able to store a station in the shifted presets. For some reason the device will just not store them. I wonder if it was because I wasn't holding my mouth right GRIN.
FW: So I bought a Digital radio..
Apologies for the frivolous message below. I've just switched to Outlook and haven't got used to the reverse time sequence of messages. I thought I was responding to something new and refreshingly free from the BARD discussion, but I realize I'd kept this exchange from a month ago. Still, at least we all now know how far Brisbane is from Melbourne, right? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 3:46 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: So I bought a Digital radio.. Hi, Dane and Bob. You've had this friendly disagreement about the distance between Melbourne and Brisbane before. So, with the BARD debate still raging, I thought I could at least settle this dispute once and for all. Thanks for all your wonderful contributions to this list. Now, here's the WikiAnswers entry describing the distance between your two fair cities: From Melbourne to Brisbane by road is a distance of 1709km (1061 miles) and takes about 21 hours to travel. This is without rest breaks so, ideally, the trip should be taken over three days. This is the quickest route, taking you the inland way through Seymour, West Wyalong, Parkes and Narrabri. The flight travel distance is 1370km (851 miles), and travel time from Melbourne to Brisbane is around 2 hours, whilst from Brisbane to Melbourne is closer to 2 hrs 20 mins, depending on the airline. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane Trethowan Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:04 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: So I bought a Digital radio.. howdy! Couple of things here, Brisbane is about 1000 miles north rather than 1500, you're halfway to Cairns smile. Thanks for the tip about the Ccrane web site, will this aerial work on the high frequency bands this radio receives? So for channel selection and here's a brief summary of what I found out through experimenting. You're best to use the jog dial when selecting channels rather than the up and down buttons and it helps to know how the stations are laid out, for example in Melbourne stations are stored in the radio in alfabetical order so I have an idea where everything is. If you want to go down say 5 stations, turn the jog wheel clockwise 5 clicks and press the select button. If you have sight you'll see the display scroll every click of the jog wheel. You're quite right, I think the Roberts is the only set with a line-out jack which you can buy unless you want to buy a DAB+ audiophile tuner and that will be my next project, either that or one DAB+ receiver which will plug into a computer, I'm yet to see one of those. Thanks for clarify the different digital radio standards, they call it HD Radio in the states and I think its based on the IBOC standard, makes a hell of a mess of the AM broadcast band I believe smile. In country Australia they're talking about DRM as a digital radio standard because of the long distances, won't go into all the tech specs here but basically you can listen to the signal on your standard AM radio, if you have a DRM compatible receiver then the extra information carried with the audio will be decoded and you'll get a FM quality audio output. Cheers! On 18/03/2010, at 6:48 AM, Robert Nelson wrote: I should point out that Dane's comments are only relevant for list members living in Australia. The DAB system used in the USA is different because of the early adoption of the DAB standard in that country. DAB in the USA also seems to have strong competition from satellite radio which can offer a greater range of content. The Roberts Ecologic 4 is a radio originally designed for DAB radio in Britain but has been modified to meet the DAB+ standard used in Australia. I live in Brisbane, Queensland, which is about 1500 miles north of Melbourne where Dane lives. In Brisbane there are more than 20 digital channels offered by AM or FM broadcasters and an odd collection of special interest groups (mostly non-English speaking). I have a Roberts Ecologic 4 and like it very much, partly because it is a portable and partly because it has a line out that llows it to be connected to a hi fi system for remarkably good results. As far as I can tell, most digital radios being sold in Australia do not have the line out feature. The Ecologic is a little quirky in its controls. You can't tune across the digital channels in the conventional manner. You have to press the up or down key then the enter key to move from one channel to another. As far as I can tell, you can't press the up key 3 times and then press the enter key and hope to move up 3 channels. Acquiring and holding a digital signal can be a problem if you are getting further away from the transmitters. The Ecologic 4 makes a sound remarkably like a bronx cheer when it is having difficulty holding a digital signal. However, digital radio is
Re: If it's stealing, then please explain...
If you listen to a CD and then pass it on to someone else then that's not stealing. If you read a book and then pass it along to someone else then that's not stealing. If you make a copy of a book or a CD and then give it to someone else then that is stealing. In fact, it's just as much stealing as breaking into a store and taking it, although in that case, you're also breaking and entering. I'm not saying it's right or wrong; it's just the law. I could repeat myself with respect to my statements on RIAA, but it seems kind of pointless now. In fact, this whole post seems kind of pointless, since I'm repeating myself again and as someone else pointed out, minds have already been made and they're not going to change. I'm probably guilty of it myself, but at least some people are also choosing to read what they want to read. I myself have learned a lot from this discussion. Some people like James below have made some good points and backed them up with facts and data. I've also done some research and reading before responding. Of course, there's also been a lot of chaff. My own opinions on what's legal and illegal haven't changed though. In fact, my opinions on what's rightr and what's wrong haven't changed either, although I haven't shared those opinions on this list, at least not for the most part. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 2:04 PM, James Homuth wrote: ... Why it is sales and other revenue in every industry supposedly effected by this so-called theft continue to increase. Year over year, DVD sales, music sales, and movie rentals have undergone a significant increase, so says just about every independant study not in the pocket of the RIAA and MPAA. Which, escentially, is just about everyone who isn't the RIAA and MPAA. Even online methods that are considered legal (Netflicks, etc) have seen increases to their rental and streaming revenue, in spite of the fact places like Blockbuster are establishing agreements with studios to arange it so that Netflicks doesn't see new releases from those studios until 28 days after Blockbuster receives those same new releases. Also, while you're at it, kindly explain why it is sales of books in just about every format continue to increase, in spite of the fact industry lobbiests continue to insist they're all taking a drastic nose dive the likes of which haven't been seen since the Titanic sank. Additionally, explain this to me. If getting your hands on a copy of a book, CD or movie you haven't paid for is so illegal/immoral/otherwise a sin on the same level as breaking into a store and taking something, why is the exchanging/giving away/otherwise distributing of actual, hard copy books still so popular? It's far from uncommon for avid book readers to read something, then pass it on to someone else to read, who will then pass it on to someone else while at the same time passing something they'd just finished reading back the other way. That's not considered illegal, and has been going on arguably since the invention of books. But yet, the same copy of that book is being passed from one hand to another. It hasn't been paid for by these other people. It hasn't resulted in any compensation whatsoever to the author from these other people for the privelege of reading that book. And no one's thrown a fit over billions upon billions of lost sales dollars because each and every one of those people who dared crack that book didn't pony up the money for their own copy before doing so. Why is that so different from the digital era, in spite of the fact the only real change is now if someone else wants to read that book, the original buyer doesn't have to give up their copy? I'd really appreciate hearing the explanation for that from some of these folks who seem to be under the impression we've all joined the rip off the author/musician/actor bandwagon here. Anyone? To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro
Okay well if you're talking Iphone then yep, it is completely different and there have been some pretty unhelpful and miss-leading comments made by those in the blind community who ought to know better in various articles and reviews which don't help the perception towards the product - once a jerk then always a jerk I spose but never mind, perhaps he's learnt his lesson and will study the facts before shooting off his mouth again - Another common question I get asked about the Iphone is to describe the layout of the screen, touch screens change layout depending on what you're doing smile. so yep, an open mind is required as you're opening up a whole new world with an Iphone or any touch screen device for that matter. On 20/04/2010, at 3:43 AM, Gary Wood wrote: I think that if I consider switching, that I will approach it with an open mind, as well. I am impressed with the way IPhone interacts with Voiceover on the phone that I tried. I'm wondering, because I've heard people say that it's a completely different system to learn. I'm just considering, incase I might decide to switch at some point. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 3:42 AM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro I didn't have any trouble switching from one to the other, I suppose this was because i took to the Mac with an Open mind, yep a new system but no! I'm not on my own. Plenty of great tools and resources to help you including the built-in reference material and interactive tutorials for Voiceover, the numpad and keyboard commander which are customisable etc. On 19/04/2010, at 5:04 PM, Gary Wood wrote: Everything about Mac sounds good, especially with the Voiceover! But if I go that way, I'll have to learn a new system all over again! Does Mac seem easier or harder to learn than Windows? I know that it'll be different. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:14 AM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro not only that but I have yet to find a mac screen reader radio automation software fore that platform - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 5:06 PM Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Flip For Mac is the replacement for Windows Media Play for the Mac, Microsoft recommend it for all the most up-to-date WMA audio/video features, its a third party product - in other words not developped by Microsoft and is updated regularly. The player - which integrates with Quicktime - is available free, other tools such as Video capturing etc you have to pay for but the prices are fairly reasonable. On 18/04/2010, at 10:03 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Dain, I done this in 2007. I think Microsoft still has it upon their website, but you'll have to do some digging in order to find it. You said something about Flip working well with Quick Time. What is Flip? John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 4:31 PM Subject: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Well I don't know how you're going to go with Windows Media Player for the Mac as - from what I understand - it was discontinued for the Mac quite some time ago, you use Flip For Mac instead which integrates with Quicktime. On 18/04/2010, at 4:49 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Hank, I only keep track of the music that we play at the radio station. If I hear something I like, I will either save it as a wave file and or a flack file and copy it to a flash drive just so that I can take it home with me. My computer in my office, has Quick Time on it, which is more easier to use on a Mack then it is to use on a pc. They don't know this, but I downloaded Windows Media Player for Macks and installed it on that computer. But if you're asking about the computer in the control room, that one is running the Linux system. But they're looking to switch that one out for a Mack system. The reason for this is, coming by a screen reader that will work with the Linux system, is very costly. So a system that already has a screen reader built in to it, is more cost efficient. I don't know what they will be running on it yet, but I'll keep the list posted when I find out. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 2:54 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered what software you
Re: So I bought a Digital radio..
No dispute there, you're right on the ball as I've done that trip myself, I said it was about a thousand miles. On 20/04/2010, at 5:45 AM, Adrian Spratt wrote: Hi, Dane and Bob. You've had this friendly disagreement about the distance between Melbourne and Brisbane before. So, with the BARD debate still raging, I thought I could at least settle this dispute once and for all. Thanks for all your wonderful contributions to this list. Now, here's the WikiAnswers entry describing the distance between your two fair cities: From Melbourne to Brisbane by road is a distance of 1709km (1061 miles) and takes about 21 hours to travel. This is without rest breaks so, ideally, the trip should be taken over three days. This is the quickest route, taking you the inland way through Seymour, West Wyalong, Parkes and Narrabri. The flight travel distance is 1370km (851 miles), and travel time from Melbourne to Brisbane is around 2 hours, whilst from Brisbane to Melbourne is closer to 2 hrs 20 mins, depending on the airline. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane Trethowan Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:04 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: So I bought a Digital radio.. howdy! Couple of things here, Brisbane is about 1000 miles north rather than 1500, you're halfway to Cairns smile. Thanks for the tip about the Ccrane web site, will this aerial work on the high frequency bands this radio receives? So for channel selection and here's a brief summary of what I found out through experimenting. You're best to use the jog dial when selecting channels rather than the up and down buttons and it helps to know how the stations are laid out, for example in Melbourne stations are stored in the radio in alfabetical order so I have an idea where everything is. If you want to go down say 5 stations, turn the jog wheel clockwise 5 clicks and press the select button. If you have sight you'll see the display scroll every click of the jog wheel. You're quite right, I think the Roberts is the only set with a line-out jack which you can buy unless you want to buy a DAB+ audiophile tuner and that will be my next project, either that or one DAB+ receiver which will plug into a computer, I'm yet to see one of those. Thanks for clarify the different digital radio standards, they call it HD Radio in the states and I think its based on the IBOC standard, makes a hell of a mess of the AM broadcast band I believe smile. In country Australia they're talking about DRM as a digital radio standard because of the long distances, won't go into all the tech specs here but basically you can listen to the signal on your standard AM radio, if you have a DRM compatible receiver then the extra information carried with the audio will be decoded and you'll get a FM quality audio output. Cheers! On 18/03/2010, at 6:48 AM, Robert Nelson wrote: I should point out that Dane's comments are only relevant for list members living in Australia. The DAB system used in the USA is different because of the early adoption of the DAB standard in that country. DAB in the USA also seems to have strong competition from satellite radio which can offer a greater range of content. The Roberts Ecologic 4 is a radio originally designed for DAB radio in Britain but has been modified to meet the DAB+ standard used in Australia. I live in Brisbane, Queensland, which is about 1500 miles north of Melbourne where Dane lives. In Brisbane there are more than 20 digital channels offered by AM or FM broadcasters and an odd collection of special interest groups (mostly non-English speaking). I have a Roberts Ecologic 4 and like it very much, partly because it is a portable and partly because it has a line out that llows it to be connected to a hi fi system for remarkably good results. As far as I can tell, most digital radios being sold in Australia do not have the line out feature. The Ecologic is a little quirky in its controls. You can't tune across the digital channels in the conventional manner. You have to press the up or down key then the enter key to move from one channel to another. As far as I can tell, you can't press the up key 3 times and then press the enter key and hope to move up 3 channels. Acquiring and holding a digital signal can be a problem if you are getting further away from the transmitters. The Ecologic 4 makes a sound remarkably like a bronx cheer when it is having difficulty holding a digital signal. However, digital radio is no different to FM in signal degradation the further you get away from the transmitter. Dane, if it becomes too aggravating, look at the C Crane company web pages because they have an excellent FM antenna for marginal areas that may improve your reception of the digital transmissions. The only other complaint I have about the Ecologic
Re: So I bought a Digital radio..
Not to worry, at least we know the distance between Melbourne and Brisbane now smile. On 20/04/2010, at 6:01 AM, Adrian Spratt wrote: Apologies for the frivolous message below. I've just switched to Outlook and haven't got used to the reverse time sequence of messages. I thought I was responding to something new and refreshingly free from the BARD discussion, but I realize I'd kept this exchange from a month ago. Still, at least we all now know how far Brisbane is from Melbourne, right? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 3:46 PM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: So I bought a Digital radio.. Hi, Dane and Bob. You've had this friendly disagreement about the distance between Melbourne and Brisbane before. So, with the BARD debate still raging, I thought I could at least settle this dispute once and for all. Thanks for all your wonderful contributions to this list. Now, here's the WikiAnswers entry describing the distance between your two fair cities: From Melbourne to Brisbane by road is a distance of 1709km (1061 miles) and takes about 21 hours to travel. This is without rest breaks so, ideally, the trip should be taken over three days. This is the quickest route, taking you the inland way through Seymour, West Wyalong, Parkes and Narrabri. The flight travel distance is 1370km (851 miles), and travel time from Melbourne to Brisbane is around 2 hours, whilst from Brisbane to Melbourne is closer to 2 hrs 20 mins, depending on the airline. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane Trethowan Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:04 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: So I bought a Digital radio.. howdy! Couple of things here, Brisbane is about 1000 miles north rather than 1500, you're halfway to Cairns smile. Thanks for the tip about the Ccrane web site, will this aerial work on the high frequency bands this radio receives? So for channel selection and here's a brief summary of what I found out through experimenting. You're best to use the jog dial when selecting channels rather than the up and down buttons and it helps to know how the stations are laid out, for example in Melbourne stations are stored in the radio in alfabetical order so I have an idea where everything is. If you want to go down say 5 stations, turn the jog wheel clockwise 5 clicks and press the select button. If you have sight you'll see the display scroll every click of the jog wheel. You're quite right, I think the Roberts is the only set with a line-out jack which you can buy unless you want to buy a DAB+ audiophile tuner and that will be my next project, either that or one DAB+ receiver which will plug into a computer, I'm yet to see one of those. Thanks for clarify the different digital radio standards, they call it HD Radio in the states and I think its based on the IBOC standard, makes a hell of a mess of the AM broadcast band I believe smile. In country Australia they're talking about DRM as a digital radio standard because of the long distances, won't go into all the tech specs here but basically you can listen to the signal on your standard AM radio, if you have a DRM compatible receiver then the extra information carried with the audio will be decoded and you'll get a FM quality audio output. Cheers! On 18/03/2010, at 6:48 AM, Robert Nelson wrote: I should point out that Dane's comments are only relevant for list members living in Australia. The DAB system used in the USA is different because of the early adoption of the DAB standard in that country. DAB in the USA also seems to have strong competition from satellite radio which can offer a greater range of content. The Roberts Ecologic 4 is a radio originally designed for DAB radio in Britain but has been modified to meet the DAB+ standard used in Australia. I live in Brisbane, Queensland, which is about 1500 miles north of Melbourne where Dane lives. In Brisbane there are more than 20 digital channels offered by AM or FM broadcasters and an odd collection of special interest groups (mostly non-English speaking). I have a Roberts Ecologic 4 and like it very much, partly because it is a portable and partly because it has a line out that llows it to be connected to a hi fi system for remarkably good results. As far as I can tell, most digital radios being sold in Australia do not have the line out feature. The Ecologic is a little quirky in its controls. You can't tune across the digital channels in the conventional manner. You have to press the up or down key then the enter key to move from one channel to another. As far as I can tell, you can't press the up key 3 times and then press the enter key and hope to move up 3 channels. Acquiring
Re: So I bought a Digital radio..
As the person who sparked all of this off, I should explain that I used the word miles when I actually meant kilometres. I didn't follow up to correct my mistake because it was hardly worth the effort. However, full marks to Adrian for ferreting out that information! Robert Nelson - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 6:25 AM Subject: Re: So I bought a Digital radio.. No dispute there, you're right on the ball as I've done that trip myself, I said it was about a thousand miles. On 20/04/2010, at 5:45 AM, Adrian Spratt wrote: Hi, Dane and Bob. You've had this friendly disagreement about the distance between Melbourne and Brisbane before. So, with the BARD debate still raging, I thought I could at least settle this dispute once and for all. Thanks for all your wonderful contributions to this list. Now, here's the WikiAnswers entry describing the distance between your two fair cities: From Melbourne to Brisbane by road is a distance of 1709km (1061 miles) and takes about 21 hours to travel. This is without rest breaks so, ideally, the trip should be taken over three days. This is the quickest route, taking you the inland way through Seymour, West Wyalong, Parkes and Narrabri. The flight travel distance is 1370km (851 miles), and travel time from Melbourne to Brisbane is around 2 hours, whilst from Brisbane to Melbourne is closer to 2 hrs 20 mins, depending on the airline. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane Trethowan Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:04 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: So I bought a Digital radio.. howdy! Couple of things here, Brisbane is about 1000 miles north rather than 1500, you're halfway to Cairns smile. Thanks for the tip about the Ccrane web site, will this aerial work on the high frequency bands this radio receives? So for channel selection and here's a brief summary of what I found out through experimenting. You're best to use the jog dial when selecting channels rather than the up and down buttons and it helps to know how the stations are laid out, for example in Melbourne stations are stored in the radio in alfabetical order so I have an idea where everything is. If you want to go down say 5 stations, turn the jog wheel clockwise 5 clicks and press the select button. If you have sight you'll see the display scroll every click of the jog wheel. You're quite right, I think the Roberts is the only set with a line-out jack which you can buy unless you want to buy a DAB+ audiophile tuner and that will be my next project, either that or one DAB+ receiver which will plug into a computer, I'm yet to see one of those. Thanks for clarify the different digital radio standards, they call it HD Radio in the states and I think its based on the IBOC standard, makes a hell of a mess of the AM broadcast band I believe smile. In country Australia they're talking about DRM as a digital radio standard because of the long distances, won't go into all the tech specs here but basically you can listen to the signal on your standard AM radio, if you have a DRM compatible receiver then the extra information carried with the audio will be decoded and you'll get a FM quality audio output. Cheers! On 18/03/2010, at 6:48 AM, Robert Nelson wrote: I should point out that Dane's comments are only relevant for list members living in Australia. The DAB system used in the USA is different because of the early adoption of the DAB standard in that country. DAB in the USA also seems to have strong competition from satellite radio which can offer a greater range of content. The Roberts Ecologic 4 is a radio originally designed for DAB radio in Britain but has been modified to meet the DAB+ standard used in Australia. I live in Brisbane, Queensland, which is about 1500 miles north of Melbourne where Dane lives. In Brisbane there are more than 20 digital channels offered by AM or FM broadcasters and an odd collection of special interest groups (mostly non-English speaking). I have a Roberts Ecologic 4 and like it very much, partly because it is a portable and partly because it has a line out that llows it to be connected to a hi fi system for remarkably good results. As far as I can tell, most digital radios being sold in Australia do not have the line out feature. The Ecologic is a little quirky in its controls. You can't tune across the digital channels in the conventional manner. You have to press the up or down key then the enter key to move from one channel to another. As far as I can tell, you can't press the up key 3 times and then press the enter key and hope to move up 3 channels. Acquiring and holding a digital signal can be a problem if you are getting further away from the
Re: VLC for the Mac was Winamp
I can't find the playlist function stuff I found everything else is there a list of shortcuts I can refference? Hank - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:44 AM Subject: Re: VLC for the Mac was Winamp You don't need a Winamp skin, just use the shortcuts which are detailed in the menu, command-p for play/pause, command-. for stop, command-o to open files or playlist and so on. On 19/04/2010, at 5:55 PM, hank smith wrote: can you tell me how to get around playlist with vlc everything from making a playlist on there to working the playlist function? couldn't figure that out also has any one wrote a winamp skin fore vlc on mac? am curious thanks Hank - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: VLC for the Mac was Winamp Its a little confusing here, I wasn't sure whether they were talking about LINUX or Mac but regardless of which you're absolutely right smile and what I said previously about VLC for Mac also applies. I also did mention that VLC these days doesn't seem to be accessible for Windows. Their was a Winamp for Mac but that died in the days of Mac OS9 I use VLC for the Mac here, does everything that Winamp does on the PC and is completely compatible, that's why I use it because I didn't have to modify any of my playlists or formats so I can just take stuff from the PC via the network and play them on the Mac with excellent quality. On 19/04/2010, at 3:38 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: A quick trip to the Winamp web page will show that there's no Winamp for the Mac. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane Trethowan Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 1:41 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Wouldn't have the faintest idea smile, if LINUX is anything like the Mac then you would use VLC? On 18/04/2010, at 4:33 PM, Gary Wood wrote: Hi Dane. Is there a Winamp for Macs? - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: A little Mac talk and audio Was Audio Hijack Pro Well I don't know how you're going to go with Windows Media Player for the Mac as - from what I understand - it was discontinued for the Mac quite some time ago, you use Flip For Mac instead which integrates with Quicktime. On 18/04/2010, at 4:49 AM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Hank, I only keep track of the music that we play at the radio station. If I hear something I like, I will either save it as a wave file and or a flack file and copy it to a flash drive just so that I can take it home with me. My computer in my office, has Quick Time on it, which is more easier to use on a Mack then it is to use on a pc. They don't know this, but I downloaded Windows Media Player for Macks and installed it on that computer. But if you're asking about the computer in the control room, that one is running the Linux system. But they're looking to switch that one out for a Mack system. The reason for this is, coming by a screen reader that will work with the Linux system, is very costly. So a system that already has a screen reader built in to it, is more cost efficient. I don't know what they will be running on it yet, but I'll keep the list posted when I find out. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 2:54 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered what software you using at radio station? I am in search fore radio station mac software fore my internet station Hank - Original Message - From: DJ DOCTOR P djdoct...@att.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered High Dain, Not here at the house. But I have a Mack in my office at work. I work for a loco radio station here in my home town. I hope to have a Mack of my very own by my 38th birthday which is, a few months away. John. - Original Message - From: Dane Trethowan grtd...@internode.on.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 12:17 AM Subject: Re: Audio Hijack Pro something I've just discovered Pardon my ignorance but do you have a Mac to try it on? This is Mac software we're discussing here. On 17/04/2010, at 2:12 PM, DJ DOCTOR P wrote: High Dain, Thinks for the clarification! When I get a chance, I'll try that. If I run in to any trouble, I'll let you and everyone
Re: It's Still Stealing
I thaught the ipod doesn't play drm wma, have they switched formats? - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:15 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Why do you feel Overdrive is restrictive DRM? I don't feel that at all. Overdrive can be used with your player of choice (IPod, MP3 Player, CD, or 'puter) our local lending library (The Boston Public Library System, god bless them for a great system) even gives patrons instructions on how to use Overdrive books downloaded from the, on patrons' player of choice. You can't compare that to BARD where the required players create a restrictive market which is heavily slanted towards a few specific vendors. The copyright issues are the same between BARD and the average local lending library that offers electronic media, so why is the implementation different? You are correct abot the history of the talking book library. But, with the proliferation of electronic media in mainstream libraries a separate and very unequal system for the blind is totally a dinosaur, IMHO. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:03 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Wow, I can't respond to all of these unsubstantiated allegations. This is the first I've heard though that the whole existence of BARD is to line the pockets of some select blind people. I tend to doubt this is the case myself. I'm sure other distribution mechanisms could have been used, including leveraging existing municipal libraries. These libraries aren't federal though, and not every state or community is going to have the same set of services available through their local library system. Also, remember that the network of state libraries has been around for decades and it's original purpose was to distribute materials to the blind, especially blinded vetrans. Even today, computer savvy patrons are in the minority of NLS users. This is also why the player and cartridges are so easy to use and service like supporting other media, PC's and the like aren't supported. I'm not sure how you can say that this somehow indicates that the blind are more disposed to piracy than the general community. Several analgies have been made on this list to Sony and Apple, which have nothing to do with the blind. You even mention Overdrive, which protects most of it's content. Audible and other services which don't cater to the blind have their own protected formats. There are some blind people though who feel that because of the relatively weak economic state of the blind as a whole that they're well within their rights to take whatever they need when they feel the cost is unreasonable. I don't believe this is unique to the blind though. The whole issue of DRM is not a blindness issue. Many sighted people feel they're allowed to steal music because RIAA is evil. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 8:42 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: That is where you are wrong. There are many folks whom have made very handsome profits from BARD. Those players don't just fall from the sky you know. They cost money to make and design and that is profit for someone. Also the very existence of BARD is, and has always, been to provide paid positions for some very connected blind folks. Think about it. Why do we even need our own system of libraries? Hundreds of thousands of local lending libraries throughout the US provide a range of print, audio, visual, and electronic media to lend to the masses every day without the same knee jerk concerns of copyright violation. You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? There is no reason why our nations infrastructure of lending libraries could not be the venues for electronic media not just for the sighted but blind alike but that would take payola out of the pockets of quite a few blind folks now wouldn't it? Yes folks you cannot leave profit out of this conversation, sad to say. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 2:16 AM To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing The reason in my mind is that you are signing up for a service provided by the US government. This service is free of charge, and you are agreeing to it's terms when you sign up for it. The law enabling this service aims to provide material free to the blind while protecting the rights of the publishers. This program is intended for
Re: If it's stealing, then please explain...
you took the words write out of my mouth as long as you aint celling to make a proffit then its cool - Original Message - From: James Homuth ja...@the-jdh.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 12:04 PM Subject: If it's stealing, then please explain... ... Why it is sales and other revenue in every industry supposedly effected by this so-called theft continue to increase. Year over year, DVD sales, music sales, and movie rentals have undergone a significant increase, so says just about every independant study not in the pocket of the RIAA and MPAA. Which, escentially, is just about everyone who isn't the RIAA and MPAA. Even online methods that are considered legal (Netflicks, etc) have seen increases to their rental and streaming revenue, in spite of the fact places like Blockbuster are establishing agreements with studios to arange it so that Netflicks doesn't see new releases from those studios until 28 days after Blockbuster receives those same new releases. Also, while you're at it, kindly explain why it is sales of books in just about every format continue to increase, in spite of the fact industry lobbiests continue to insist they're all taking a drastic nose dive the likes of which haven't been seen since the Titanic sank. Additionally, explain this to me. If getting your hands on a copy of a book, CD or movie you haven't paid for is so illegal/immoral/otherwise a sin on the same level as breaking into a store and taking something, why is the exchanging/giving away/otherwise distributing of actual, hard copy books still so popular? It's far from uncommon for avid book readers to read something, then pass it on to someone else to read, who will then pass it on to someone else while at the same time passing something they'd just finished reading back the other way. That's not considered illegal, and has been going on arguably since the invention of books. But yet, the same copy of that book is being passed from one hand to another. It hasn't been paid for by these other people. It hasn't resulted in any compensation whatsoever to the author from these other people for the privelege of reading that book. And no one's thrown a fit over billions upon billions of lost sales dollars because each and every one of those people who dared crack that book didn't pony up the money for their own copy before doing so. Why is that so different from the digital era, in spite of the fact the only real change is now if someone else wants to read that book, the original buyer doesn't have to give up their copy? I'd really appreciate hearing the explanation for that from some of these folks who seem to be under the impression we've all joined the rip off the author/musician/actor bandwagon here. Anyone? To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
hum on USB headset mic?
Hi there. I've been using a Plantronics DSP-400 USB headset mic for quite a long time now. I got another one for Christmas a few years ago that I decided to try yesterday because the foam on the left earpiece is just about all gone. That one never had any audio problems for me recording, but this one I just opened has hum when I record. I think it's just a little bit, but when you do net radio and stuff that applies processing, that sound will become more apparent. I plugged the old one back in to get rid of the hum even though it's getting uncomfortable to wear. How can I get rid of the hum so I can use this new one, or did I just end up with a defective one? I know I can't return it any more because that model isn't made any more and it's a few years old. Why would a new one of the same model record hum and this old one I've been using for about 4 years now doesn't? I thought hum would be an unusual thing with USB headsets. Is there any way around it. I'd hate to buy a bunch of USB headsets and have to return them to find one that doesn't hum as it's important to me to have a somewhat clean recording. I use Skype for some of those phone systems where you have to say what you want and noise like that may screw up the voice recognition. I can't take the cables off as they're built in, so is there anything that can be done, or did I end up with a defective one? Thanks. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: If it's stealing, then please explain...
However, when you take a piece of art, copy it, and give the copy away, that's another copy in the world to be used by someone at the same time you're using the original, or your copy. In the case of small artists, labels, and other small media, taking that copy litterally can take the food out of their family's mouth. There are people, such as Cory Doctorow, who use creative commons. This mean that, they put the material out there, and one may freely copy and distribute it. Here's an interesting thing that happens in this situation. When someone says, hey, you can have this, and if it brings you value, pay me what you think it's worth, then people tend to feel more personally connected to the item. It's strange, but true. Because of this, they buy the work, most of all if it's well crafted. A lot of people who get into music as a living, or some form of creation, tend to have a major shift of opinion once the shoe is on the other foot. Granted, there are other ways of makig money, and the market will find it's balance, but we're in growing pains. Thankfully, stores are starting to learn from their mistakes. The book publishers are being luddites, as are the MPAA, but the RIAA, has gotten a bit more with the pg with things such as undrmed coppies of songs. What really drives me nuts are the costs of imports! There's no reason I should have to pay $30.00 for the latest Lacromosa or Tanzwut album! Rick twitter http://twitter.com/elheme msn bellevue@gmail.com skype lord_of_beer last fm http://www.last.fm/user/lord_of_beer - Original Message - From: hank smith hanksmi...@gmail.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 6:22 PM Subject: Re: If it's stealing, then please explain... you took the words write out of my mouth as long as you aint celling to make a proffit then its cool - Original Message - From: James Homuth ja...@the-jdh.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 12:04 PM Subject: If it's stealing, then please explain... ... Why it is sales and other revenue in every industry supposedly effected by this so-called theft continue to increase. Year over year, DVD sales, music sales, and movie rentals have undergone a significant increase, so says just about every independant study not in the pocket of the RIAA and MPAA. Which, escentially, is just about everyone who isn't the RIAA and MPAA. Even online methods that are considered legal (Netflicks, etc) have seen increases to their rental and streaming revenue, in spite of the fact places like Blockbuster are establishing agreements with studios to arange it so that Netflicks doesn't see new releases from those studios until 28 days after Blockbuster receives those same new releases. Also, while you're at it, kindly explain why it is sales of books in just about every format continue to increase, in spite of the fact industry lobbiests continue to insist they're all taking a drastic nose dive the likes of which haven't been seen since the Titanic sank. Additionally, explain this to me. If getting your hands on a copy of a book, CD or movie you haven't paid for is so illegal/immoral/otherwise a sin on the same level as breaking into a store and taking something, why is the exchanging/giving away/otherwise distributing of actual, hard copy books still so popular? It's far from uncommon for avid book readers to read something, then pass it on to someone else to read, who will then pass it on to someone else while at the same time passing something they'd just finished reading back the other way. That's not considered illegal, and has been going on arguably since the invention of books. But yet, the same copy of that book is being passed from one hand to another. It hasn't been paid for by these other people. It hasn't resulted in any compensation whatsoever to the author from these other people for the privelege of reading that book. And no one's thrown a fit over billions upon billions of lost sales dollars because each and every one of those people who dared crack that book didn't pony up the money for their own copy before doing so. Why is that so different from the digital era, in spite of the fact the only real change is now if someone else wants to read that book, the original buyer doesn't have to give up their copy? I'd really appreciate hearing the explanation for that from some of these folks who seem to be under the impression we've all joined the rip off the author/musician/actor bandwagon here. Anyone? To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
RE: If it's stealing, then please explain...
Hi. First, I'll state that people are free to do what they think is best. I'm just going to illustrate the dilemma that digital forms of media have caused. First, a VCR isn't digital. When you dub a copy from either off the air, or from one tape to another, it's an analog copy. This means you lose a bit of quality from the source. A good example of this is when you dub cassette tapes. Cassette albums aren't the highest quality media, and if you listen to the copy, you'll notice the tape hiss on it. If you make a copy from that copy, it gets worse. Now let's look at digital media, and the problem it can cause. Let's say there are 10,000 computers. The first computer has a file on it. You copy that file to the second computer. You then copy the file from the second computer to the third, copy the third to the fourth, and so on, until you copy from computer 9,999 to 10,000. Now let's mix all the computers up, so you don't know which is which. How would you be able to tell the original copy from one of the others? The answer is you can't, because each file is an exact duplicate, or clone, of the original. Unlike analog copies, there is no degradation from copy to copy. In my view, there are two problems. First, as I've shown, you have an exact copy of what someone else has, whether you legitimately download it, or you get it by other means. The second problem relates directly to the first. Making one duplicate of the file may seem harmless, but if thousands of copies appear, and these aren't from the originator, a lot of potential money is lost. With ever increasing bandwidth, and inexpensive ways to send large files, this could be a real problem. I write the above as an explanation of why some out there seem to wield an iron clad fist. Don't get me wrong, I think the RIAA has done things stupidly, and don't get me started about the DMCA, which hurts people who want to have an internet broadcast for others to enjoy. I think that what publishers are learning is that if they provide a good product that doesn't cost too much, most people will do things legally. I know that I get my music from Amazon, and I'm willing to pay for it. If I can't find what I want on Amazon, I go to Itunes. So far, there's only one song that I can't find, and I may see if anyone knows where I can buy it. That's my thinking on things. Have a great day, and don't work too hard. Kevin Minor kmi...@windstream.net To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: If it's stealing, then please explain...
High Kevin, Whatever that song is, you may have a good chance at finding it at CD UNIVERSE. You can check them out at: www.cduniverse.com Hope this helps. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: Kevin Minor kmi...@windstream.net To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:35 PM Subject: RE: If it's stealing, then please explain... Hi. First, I'll state that people are free to do what they think is best. I'm just going to illustrate the dilemma that digital forms of media have caused. First, a VCR isn't digital. When you dub a copy from either off the air, or from one tape to another, it's an analog copy. This means you lose a bit of quality from the source. A good example of this is when you dub cassette tapes. Cassette albums aren't the highest quality media, and if you listen to the copy, you'll notice the tape hiss on it. If you make a copy from that copy, it gets worse. Now let's look at digital media, and the problem it can cause. Let's say there are 10,000 computers. The first computer has a file on it. You copy that file to the second computer. You then copy the file from the second computer to the third, copy the third to the fourth, and so on, until you copy from computer 9,999 to 10,000. Now let's mix all the computers up, so you don't know which is which. How would you be able to tell the original copy from one of the others? The answer is you can't, because each file is an exact duplicate, or clone, of the original. Unlike analog copies, there is no degradation from copy to copy. In my view, there are two problems. First, as I've shown, you have an exact copy of what someone else has, whether you legitimately download it, or you get it by other means. The second problem relates directly to the first. Making one duplicate of the file may seem harmless, but if thousands of copies appear, and these aren't from the originator, a lot of potential money is lost. With ever increasing bandwidth, and inexpensive ways to send large files, this could be a real problem. I write the above as an explanation of why some out there seem to wield an iron clad fist. Don't get me wrong, I think the RIAA has done things stupidly, and don't get me started about the DMCA, which hurts people who want to have an internet broadcast for others to enjoy. I think that what publishers are learning is that if they provide a good product that doesn't cost too much, most people will do things legally. I know that I get my music from Amazon, and I'm willing to pay for it. If I can't find what I want on Amazon, I go to Itunes. So far, there's only one song that I can't find, and I may see if anyone knows where I can buy it. That's my thinking on things. Have a great day, and don't work too hard. Kevin Minor kmi...@windstream.net To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: Are any apple MP 3 players blind accessible?
Moving music from a Windows based computer to an iPod is done using the Windows version of the iTunes software from Apple. - Original Message - From: DJ DOCTOR P djdoct...@att.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:21 PM Subject: Re: Are any apple MP 3 players blind accessible? High Mario, I don't know, I haven't had my hands on 1 of those yet. But I do think it can be done. But I have gotten away with doing that with some of the older Apple iPods. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: Mario m...@tiscali.it To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 5:12 PM Subject: Re: Are any apple MP 3 players blind accessible? Hi, it is possible on iphod touch to copy and paste directly from windows? A presto, Mario Loreti Speaker pubblicitario e radiofonico - www.marioloreti.net - To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: hum on USB headset mic?
High Brent, The problem may be the way your computer is grounded. If there was some way to get read of the ground loop, you will get read of the humming noise in the process. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: Brent Harding bhard...@doorpi.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 6:46 PM Subject: hum on USB headset mic? Hi there. I've been using a Plantronics DSP-400 USB headset mic for quite a long time now. I got another one for Christmas a few years ago that I decided to try yesterday because the foam on the left earpiece is just about all gone. That one never had any audio problems for me recording, but this one I just opened has hum when I record. I think it's just a little bit, but when you do net radio and stuff that applies processing, that sound will become more apparent. I plugged the old one back in to get rid of the hum even though it's getting uncomfortable to wear. How can I get rid of the hum so I can use this new one, or did I just end up with a defective one? I know I can't return it any more because that model isn't made any more and it's a few years old. Why would a new one of the same model record hum and this old one I've been using for about 4 years now doesn't? I thought hum would be an unusual thing with USB headsets. Is there any way around it. I'd hate to buy a bunch of USB headsets and have to return them to find one that doesn't hum as it's important to me to have a somewhat clean recording. I use Skype for some of those phone systems where you have to say what you want and noise like that may screw up the voice recognition. I can't take the cables off as they're built in, so is there anything that can be done, or did I end up with a defective one? Thanks. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: Are any apple MP 3 players blind accessible?
You are correct on both counts. You cannot use Windows Explorer on an iPod using the normal iPod software installed on the unit. You either use iTunes or the Anipod software you mentioned. I haven't used that software for over two years, but the last I checked that software costs about $50. If one uses the RockBox software on one of the iPods that that software works on you can copy files and folders with Windows Explorer, but not if you are using the installed iPod software. - Original Message - From: Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:54 PM Subject: RE: Are any apple MP 3 players blind accessible? Are you asking if you can use Windows Explorer to copy music and files directly to your iPod, as if it were another drive? I don't believe you can do this. I believe you need to use iTunes. There is a program called Anapod Explorer that will let you do this. I don't use it myself, but I don't believe it's free. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Mario Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:13 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: Are any apple MP 3 players blind accessible? Hi, it is possible on iphod touch to copy and paste directly from windows? A presto, Mario Loreti Speaker pubblicitario e radiofonico - www.marioloreti.net To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: Are any apple MP 3 players blind accessible?
High David, I don't have that. But yet, I can still cut files from my computer to my iPod. Maybe they sat it up special for me? John. - Original Message - From: David Tanner david-tan...@peoplepc.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:01 PM Subject: Re: Are any apple MP 3 players blind accessible? Moving music from a Windows based computer to an iPod is done using the Windows version of the iTunes software from Apple. - Original Message - From: DJ DOCTOR P djdoct...@att.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:21 PM Subject: Re: Are any apple MP 3 players blind accessible? High Mario, I don't know, I haven't had my hands on 1 of those yet. But I do think it can be done. But I have gotten away with doing that with some of the older Apple iPods. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: Mario m...@tiscali.it To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 5:12 PM Subject: Re: Are any apple MP 3 players blind accessible? Hi, it is possible on iphod touch to copy and paste directly from windows? A presto, Mario Loreti Speaker pubblicitario e radiofonico - www.marioloreti.net - To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: It's Still Stealing
Modirator, Hasen't this thread about gone far enough off topic for you to ask that it be discontinued? It seems that is all that is being discussed on the list the last few days. Please do something about limiting or ending this on-going, never ending debate. - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 12:31 PM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing OK if you don't think there is a double standard then stand in front of your average lending library in AnyTown USA and tell each person coming out with a book that they will have to spend three bills of their paycheck (or tax dollars) to be able to read that book and watch their reaction. Still no double standard? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:27 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing I don't agree. Someone else on this list talked about the more famous RIAA law suits, and to my knowledge none of these were directed against blind individuals. I'm not aware of a single case where the NLS went after a blind patron. Copy protection schemes implemented by Sony, Apple, Audible and so on are not directed at the blind. Apple, Audible and Overdrive content are all restricted to a certain set of players, or used to be, and again this has nothing to do with the blind. I don't think there's a double standard here. I won't even go near the recliner analogy. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:17 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: What I meant (in case there is any confusion) is that a sighted person can break copyright law just as easily as a blind person but they don't face the same restrictions as blind people do. I thought I made that quite clear. Again I go back to the Lazyboy recliner analogy. A sighted lending library does not tell its patrons how they may read their borrowed material but BARD does go that extra step with blind people with its for profit players. The secondary and maybe far worse effect of this double standard is that it makes blind people appear as if we are more prone to piracy then the general public. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:02 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Here are your words frank: frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? What did you mean by this? - Original Message - From: Frank Venturafrank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion Listpc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit the bill for that LazyBoy. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies and agencies need to take such action. Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for a profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money (whatever that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking about. If you're implying
RE: It's Still Stealing
amen -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of David Tanner Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:49 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Modirator, Hasen't this thread about gone far enough off topic for you to ask that it be discontinued? It seems that is all that is being discussed on the list the last few days. Please do something about limiting or ending this on-going, never ending debate. - Original Message - From: Frank Ventura frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 12:31 PM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing OK if you don't think there is a double standard then stand in front of your average lending library in AnyTown USA and tell each person coming out with a book that they will have to spend three bills of their paycheck (or tax dollars) to be able to read that book and watch their reaction. Still no double standard? -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:27 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing I don't agree. Someone else on this list talked about the more famous RIAA law suits, and to my knowledge none of these were directed against blind individuals. I'm not aware of a single case where the NLS went after a blind patron. Copy protection schemes implemented by Sony, Apple, Audible and so on are not directed at the blind. Apple, Audible and Overdrive content are all restricted to a certain set of players, or used to be, and again this has nothing to do with the blind. I don't think there's a double standard here. I won't even go near the recliner analogy. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:17 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: What I meant (in case there is any confusion) is that a sighted person can break copyright law just as easily as a blind person but they don't face the same restrictions as blind people do. I thought I made that quite clear. Again I go back to the Lazyboy recliner analogy. A sighted lending library does not tell its patrons how they may read their borrowed material but BARD does go that extra step with blind people with its for profit players. The secondary and maybe far worse effect of this double standard is that it makes blind people appear as if we are more prone to piracy then the general public. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:02 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing Here are your words frank: frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does not? What did you mean by this? - Original Message - From: Frank Venturafrank.vent...@littlebreezes.com To: PC Audio Discussion Listpc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they would not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as BARD but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit business of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit the bill for that LazyBoy. -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give them away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD books is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public and impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is necessary in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the attitude of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS and other companies
Re: hum on USB headset mic?
Hmmm, maybe, not sure why the old headset doesn't hum, but I found some reviews including a dragon forum that says that the DSP-400 is supposedly sensitive enough to it that just being plugged into anything running on AC power will be guaranteed to do it. My old one didn't but h, maybe a different kind of headset. - Original Message - From: DJ DOCTOR P djdoct...@att.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:03 PM Subject: Re: hum on USB headset mic? High Brent, The problem may be the way your computer is grounded. If there was some way to get read of the ground loop, you will get read of the humming noise in the process. My best regards. John. - Original Message - From: Brent Harding bhard...@doorpi.net To: PC Audio Discussion List pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 6:46 PM Subject: hum on USB headset mic? Hi there. I've been using a Plantronics DSP-400 USB headset mic for quite a long time now. I got another one for Christmas a few years ago that I decided to try yesterday because the foam on the left earpiece is just about all gone. That one never had any audio problems for me recording, but this one I just opened has hum when I record. I think it's just a little bit, but when you do net radio and stuff that applies processing, that sound will become more apparent. I plugged the old one back in to get rid of the hum even though it's getting uncomfortable to wear. How can I get rid of the hum so I can use this new one, or did I just end up with a defective one? I know I can't return it any more because that model isn't made any more and it's a few years old. Why would a new one of the same model record hum and this old one I've been using for about 4 years now doesn't? I thought hum would be an unusual thing with USB headsets. Is there any way around it. I'd hate to buy a bunch of USB headsets and have to return them to find one that doesn't hum as it's important to me to have a somewhat clean recording. I use Skype for some of those phone systems where you have to say what you want and noise like that may screw up the voice recognition. I can't take the cables off as they're built in, so is there anything that can be done, or did I end up with a defective one? Thanks. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: If it's stealing, then please explain...
One big difference with passing around a print book compared to a digital file... One cannot read the book once it's in someone else's hands. Copying a digital file and passing it on gives all new recipients the opportunity to listen all at the same time. The real comparable would be to delete your copy of a digital file when you pass along a copy. Jeff At 12:43 PM 4/19/2010, you wrote: the closest I can come is that a cd or book that is handed to someone else would be a rare incident that it is handed to a thousand people within a week. yet, this can happen with digital material. - Original Message - From: James Homuth ja...@the-jdh.com To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: If it's stealing, then please explain... ... Why it is sales and other revenue in every industry supposedly effected by this so-called theft continue to increase. Year over year, DVD sales, music sales, and movie rentals have undergone a significant increase, so says just about every independant study not in the pocket of the RIAA and MPAA. Which, escentially, is just about everyone who isn't the RIAA and MPAA. Even online methods that are considered legal (Netflicks, etc) have seen increases to their rental and streaming revenue, in spite of the fact places like Blockbuster are establishing agreements with studios to arange it so that Netflicks doesn't see new releases from those studios until 28 days after Blockbuster receives those same new releases. Also, while you're at it, kindly explain why it is sales of books in just about every format continue to increase, in spite of the fact industry lobbiests continue to insist they're all taking a drastic nose dive the likes of which haven't been seen since the Titanic sank. Additionally, explain this to me. If getting your hands on a copy of a book, CD or movie you haven't paid for is so illegal/immoral/otherwise a sin on the same level as breaking into a store and taking something, why is the exchanging/giving away/otherwise distributing of actual, hard copy books still so popular? It's far from uncommon for avid book readers to read something, then pass it on to someone else to read, who will then pass it on to someone else while at the same time passing something they'd just finished reading back the other way. That's not considered illegal, and has been going on arguably since the invention of books. But yet, the same copy of that book is being passed from one hand to another. It hasn't been paid for by these other people. It hasn't resulted in any compensation whatsoever to the author from these other people for the privelege of reading that book. And no one's thrown a fit over billions upon billions of lost sales dollars because each and every one of those people who dared crack that book didn't pony up the money for their own copy before doing so. Why is that so different from the digital era, in spite of the fact the only real change is now if someone else wants to read that book, the original buyer doesn't have to give up their copy? I'd really appreciate hearing the explanation for that from some of these folks who seem to be under the impression we've all joined the rip off the author/musician/actor bandwagon here. Anyone? To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2821 - Release Date: 04/19/10 11:31:00 To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
I'm thinking about becoming an ape man
Hi Listers, I've heard a lot of good things re: the ape lossless protocol. I would like to know the best way to play these. I did some snooping around the web today and found that there is a plug-in that will make winamp play ape files. Someone from anothe list mentioned the vlc player plays this material. I'm wondering if there's any software that works on converting these files to wav files, which I very well know how to encode to mp3's. I'd be happy to hear from folks who know about these sorts of things. Thanks for ideas! Rusty Life isn't so much about how to survive the storm, it is about the willingness to dance in the rain !! Visit me at: http://www.thesoundzone.com To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
RE: Are any apple MP 3 players blind accessible?
Hi, I-tunes is free, and its getting better to use all the time. Soon the scripts may no longer enhance the program as much as they have through out the I-tunes saga. I use I-Tunes every day, and I use it with both window-eyes and Jaws, with or without the jtunes scripts. Hope this helps. Rusty At 05:54 PM 4/18/2010, Christopher Chaltain spake thusly:- Are you asking if you can use Windows Explorer to copy music and files directly to your iPod, as if it were another drive? I don't believe you can do this. I believe you need to use iTunes. There is a program called Anapod Explorer that will let you do this. I don't use it myself, but I don't believe it's free. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Mario Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:13 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: Are any apple MP 3 players blind accessible? Hi, it is possible on iphod touch to copy and paste directly from windows? A presto, Mario Loreti Speaker pubblicitario e radiofonico - www.marioloreti.net To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org Life isn't so much about how to survive the storm, it is about the willingness to dance in the rain !! Visit me at: http://www.thesoundzone.com To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
Re: Its still steeling
Joe, the makers of the plextalk products are the same ones who make the NLS players for the national library service. tthis can be confirmed since I just happen to know this as a factual statement. I got this info straight from the company themselves Plus, I also double confirmed this with my state library. - Original Message - From: Joe n3...@hotmail.com To: pc-audio@pc-audio.org Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:59 PM Subject: Its still steeling Before the dust settles on this thread, I'd like to put in my two cents. First, even though the list moderator started this, I commend him for letting the debate continue. Now my opinions. I agree totally with James statements on the underhanded tactics of the RIAA who not only gave us his views, but eloquently stated facts to back them. Instead of the RIAA embracing the industry and changing with it, they're fighting it. If you think about it, this is nothing new. The same thing happened with the film industry when video tape came out and now two generations later, people are still going to the movies. The RIAA says they're only trying to protect the artist when they tell us not to pirate music. What a smoke screen. That's bull. If its true, why haven't some of the major labels even paid what they owe to their artists for there work from the sixties. I'm glad the Internet has come along for musicians to freely distribute and market there music. There are also a lot more indee labels then they're used to be. I'm a musician myself, and I know a lot of musicians who freely put some of there music on line for download. Then look at a group like the grateful dead who actually encouraged recording at they're concerts with special sections reserved for recording. It hasn't hurt there success or album sales at all. I think its actually increased it. I've downloaded music both legally and illegally myself, and if I like something I may buy it after the download. As for NLS and the new BARD download system, what alternative method would you have suggested? I think that was the best way to go. I for one would much rather be able to download books that I could keep indefinitely rather than having them disappear after a given amount of time like they do with overdrive. Also we get a good solidly built player that's portable, free of charge, and with great audio. Now. as far as the accusations made that the player is making some people tuns of money, that's just paranoid thinking. Can you prove that? Who is making all this money? Do you have figures? The players cost NLS $150 each.The last four track players built cost double that. So NLS will actually be saving in the long run. I also think they'll eventually save the tax payers even more money when all books will be borrowed by way of download eliminating the need for mailing of containers and cartridges. And as I said before. These players are provided to us free of charge. Also, were not the only ones using a special player. What about sighted people who use the kindle.Then If you want to talk about a real rip-off, compare that to the over priced player recorders made by plextalk and others. They don't even sound as good and cost more than double what the NLS player costs. I really applaud the open source idea and the people who are developing rockbox. Then,Compare that with the greedy attitude of rip-off scientific and look at the price of Jaws and the fact they have the exclusive government contract for screen readers in colleges. But that's another subject and it would be off topic. To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
