Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 8 June 2010 18:29, steve harley p...@paper-ape.com wrote: On 2010-06-08 10:28 , Bruce Dayton wrote: Isn't that the 'Apple' way? Tight control? it has nothing to do with Apple -- if the school were using Windows it seems clear they'd have a similar policy; i've seen the same kind of policy (for Windows and/or Mac) in various environments with shared computers It's certainly the way my work environment is. Even then the little darlings find ways to circumvent the system. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
This is probably going to be my last on Mac vs PC for now. I'm getting busy at school and barely have time to follow the list. There are about 70 students in my class, broken into three sections. Among the 70, there are maybe 10 who are over the age of 21. All the rest are right out of high school. The network is also set up to be Mac only, to indoctrinate the kids properly from the beginning. I don't know what their experience with computers in school prior to this has been, but I think it might have been rather apple-centric. What I think is going on is the Mac network at school is screwed down really tight to keep the students from doing anything that might screw with it. You can't change any preferences, and no allowance is even made for saving those preferences as a script on your own drive. Basically, it's just not set up to play nice with those who already know something about a different way of doing things, and no allowance is made for the diversity of those who use Windoze at home. Not a matter of can't ... won't. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 8/6/10, John Sessoms, discombobulated, unleashed: The network is also set up to be Mac only, to indoctrinate the kids properly from the beginning John, you're getting the idea ;-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
Isn't that the 'Apple' way? Tight control? -- Bruce Tuesday, June 8, 2010, 6:19:51 AM, you wrote: JS This is probably going to be my last on Mac vs PC for now. I'm getting JS busy at school and barely have time to follow the list. JS There are about 70 students in my class, broken into three sections. JS Among the 70, there are maybe 10 who are over the age of 21. All the JS rest are right out of high school. JS The network is also set up to be Mac only, to indoctrinate the kids JS properly from the beginning. I don't know what their experience with JS computers in school prior to this has been, but I think it might have JS been rather apple-centric. JS What I think is going on is the Mac network at school is screwed down JS really tight to keep the students from doing anything that might screw JS with it. You can't change any preferences, and no allowance is even made JS for saving those preferences as a script on your own drive. JS Basically, it's just not set up to play nice with those who already know JS something about a different way of doing things, and no allowance is JS made for the diversity of those who use Windoze at home. JS Not a matter of can't ... won't. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 8/6/10, Bruce Dayton, discombobulated, unleashed: Isn't that the 'Apple' way? Tight control? Ridiculous! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil... -- Bruce Tuesday, June 8, 2010, 9:35:53 AM, you wrote: C On 8/6/10, Bruce Dayton, discombobulated, unleashed: Isn't that the 'Apple' way? Tight control? C Ridiculous! C -- C Cheers, C Cotty C ___/\__ C || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche C -- http://www.cottysnaps.com C _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 8/6/10, Bruce Dayton, discombobulated, unleashed: See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil... ;-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 2010-06-08 10:28 , Bruce Dayton wrote: Isn't that the 'Apple' way? Tight control? it has nothing to do with Apple -- if the school were using Windows it seems clear they'd have a similar policy; i've seen the same kind of policy (for Windows and/or Mac) in various environments with shared computers -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
Seem to have touched a raw nerve. -- Bruce Tuesday, June 8, 2010, 10:29:04 AM, you wrote: sh On 2010-06-08 10:28 , Bruce Dayton wrote: Isn't that the 'Apple' way? Tight control? sh it has nothing to do with Apple -- if the school were using Windows it sh seems clear they'd have a similar policy; i've seen the same kind of sh policy (for Windows and/or Mac) in various environments with shared sh computers -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 2010-06-08 11:32 , Bruce Dayton wrote: Seem to have touched a raw nerve. eh? just wasn't a sensible comment -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
If you could see the forest through the trees, I think you would see it as sensible. -- Bruce Tuesday, June 8, 2010, 10:47:23 AM, you wrote: sh On 2010-06-08 11:32 , Bruce Dayton wrote: Seem to have touched a raw nerve. sh eh? just wasn't a sensible comment -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 2010-06-08 12:18 , Bruce Dayton wrote: If you could see the forest through the trees, I think you would see it as sensible. i see a forest of attitude through trees of poorly-aimed snark -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
I bow to the Apple god who must always be vindicated. I'm done. -- Bruce Tuesday, June 8, 2010, 11:37:24 AM, you wrote: sh On 2010-06-08 12:18 , Bruce Dayton wrote: If you could see the forest through the trees, I think you would see it as sensible. sh i see a forest of attitude through trees of poorly-aimed snark -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
-- From: steve harley Subject: Re: OT - Abobe Woes On 2010-06-08 12:18 , Bruce Dayton wrote: If you could see the forest through the trees, I think you would see it as sensible. i see a forest of attitude through trees of poorly-aimed snark I see another batch of tiresome Mac users blowing smoke out their asses. But that's just me. Pay me no mind, I know I don't. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 6/8/2010 12:28 PM, Bruce Dayton wrote:
Isn't that the 'Apple' way? Tight control?
/Strict/ control, (ask Cotty).
--
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Re: OT - Abobe Woes
I've got nothing useful to add here but, as this thread seems to be running out of puff, I just thought I'd try to get it to stagger on a bit longer... Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 14:14 -0700, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: On Jun 4, 2010, at 11:10 , steve harley wrote: On 2010-06-04 00:23 , John Sessoms wrote: However the software doesn't give me the choice of NO. It only gives me the choice to change the configuration so as to make the drive useless or to cancel. If this were Windoze software, there would be some way to turn the software off. i think this is solvable, but vague descriptions are not going to cut it; obviously your gurus don't even know how to google so let me give you what i've got: first of all i plug multi-format drives into Macs all the time and get no such pop-up snip given the right details i can do some googling for your gurus I refrained from commenting, because I could not for the life on me figure out why he would get such a message other than what you've mentioned about some irregularity in the formatting of a dual use drive. Oh, and a La Cie drive as well. Any drive I use is reformatted with the current version of Disk Utility before I use it. I don't use the One Button Backup or other little things that come with many drives, so do not need any software that they include on the drive. Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com “ It is still true, as was first said many years ago, that people are the only sophisticated computing devices that can be made at low cost by unskilled workers!” — Martin G. Wolf, PhD -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and love email again -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 2010-06-03 22:36 , John Sessoms wrote: None of the Mac gurus at school could figure out how to take a screen shot. those aren't gurus; you can tell them control-command-shift-3, or control-command-shift-4 to crop while taking; screenshot goes directly to clipboard; if you want a file, don't use the control key and the file will be on the Desktop, or open Preview and press command-n to create a document with the screenshot on the clipboard, crop, save as -- all are there -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
From: Joseph McAllister On Jun 3, 2010, at 21:36 , John Sessoms wrote: From: Daniel J. Matyola Based on my experience so far, it's easier to get the Windoze computer to do what *I* want it to do right out of the box That is not my experience. Windoze loads a lot of crap that I have to get rid of, and it makes it difficult to load non-MS programs and make them the default programs. Yeah. Windoze does load a lot of crap that has to be gotten rid of. The difference is you CAN get rid of it. And once you get rid of it, it STAYS gotten rid of. Under what circumstances could you not do the same thing with a Macintosh? See my earlier rant regarding the Le Cie drive configured for transferring files between my Windoze box and the school's Macs. I'm not allowed to store files on the school's computers (for one thing I don't always get to use the same one ...). The Le Cie drive is my main storage space, but I don't have a Mac at home. When I need to upload my PEF files to the Le Cie drive I have to use my Windoze box. Then when I get to school I can move the files into the Mac volume. I do have a server share, but it's not large. Certainly not large enough to keep working files. It's intended for turn in. Every time I plug the Le Cie drive in I get a pop-up asking me if I want to change the drive so that it will be Mac only. I don't. If I wanted the drive to be Mac only I would have configured it to be Mac only to begin with. However the software doesn't give me the choice of NO. It only gives me the choice to change the configuration so as to make the drive useless or to cancel. If this were Windoze software, there would be some way to turn the software off. Give you another one. On Windoze, I can do a print screen and then paste the screen-shot into paint or Photoshop, crop to the part I want, save it as a jpeg and insert that jpeg into a Word (or Open Office Writer document as an illustration. None of the Mac gurus at school could figure out how to take a screen shot. You can do a screen shot, a window shot, or a selected area shot of any proportion or size with a Mac, either through keyboard shortcuts, or using the included with the O/S little program called Grab. Can't show you here, because this list has never gotten past the DOS 6.2.2 era. :-) Perhaps you can, but as I said, none of the Mac gurus at school could figure out how to do it. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/4 Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com: And not by osmosis, my friend, not by osmosis. :-) Certainly not. Especially if you consider what actually happens in osmosis; which is the passage of very small molecules across a passive membrane. In practice, only water molecules are small enough. Which means that osmosis is a dilution process. Not what you'd want to happen to your knowledge... :-) Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 4/6/10, John Sessoms, discombobulated, unleashed: Give you another one. On Windoze, I can do a print screen and then paste the screen-shot into paint or Photoshop, crop to the part I want, save it as a jpeg and insert that jpeg into a Word (or Open Office Writer document as an illustration. None of the Mac gurus at school could figure out how to take a screen shot. They are not Mac gurus. I do the above all the time, it is very basic. http://guides.macrumors.com/Taking_Screenshots_in_Mac_OS_X I have to save receipts for parking etc - I snap the receipt with my iPhone, email it to myself, retrieve on the Mac, and drag and drop into a Word document. Didn't even copy and paste so saved a step on your method chum. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/4 Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com: Thank you for acknowledging my presence, Jostein! Did I hit anything? A 100% hit rate, I think. All messages threaded properly even in gmail. :-) -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 3, 2010, at 9:38 PM, Cotty wrote: Strange as it may seem, there are plenty of people in the world who would like to use a computer for various tasks - say, accessing the internet, Skyping distant relatives, writing a letter to the bank - but who are not the least bit interested in understanding how it works, how to manage it better, how to improve it, how to accomplish other tasks with it. In my opinion, the Mac can appeal to this type of person *as well as* the complete opposite. You're absolutely right. Due to its Unix underpinnings the Mac platform has become quite popular among eggheads. I used to play about with computers for their own sake. I'd build up a frankenbox from spare bits then spend days getting Linux to work on it. I've since managed to repress the memories of X11 modelines. Once it was all working I'd be at a loss for what to actually do with it so I'd make some changes and start the cycle again. Now that I'm older and busier I see computers purely as a tool. I use Windows and Linux a lot at work. But for home I wanted something that could run Photoshop and Dreamweaver. At the time (about 2003/4) I liked the look of the technologies in Mac OS X - Unix underneath with really useful stuff like ColorSync and a GPU-accelerated desktop (giving us Exposé) sitting on top. Hardware-wise I never considered the G5 PowerMac I bought to be particularly pretty, even though it is astonishingly well made. But that never mattered as it sat under the desk. I now have a Macbook Pro so I can sit in the heated living room during winter evenings. The Mac platform can appeal to people at all levels. If it isn't your cup of tea, go have a coffee instead. You'll still get a caffeine hit, it just tastes different. Now it must be about time we started a Linux distribution flamewar. Debian FTW! Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 4, 2010, at 00:03 , AlunFoto wrote: 2010/6/4 Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com: And not by osmosis, my friend, not by osmosis. :-) Certainly not. Especially if you consider what actually happens in osmosis; which is the passage of very small molecules across a passive membrane. In practice, only water molecules are small enough. Which means that osmosis is a dilution process. Not what you'd want to happen to your knowledge... :-) Jostein Among the great unwashed and under-educated that I grew up with, osmosis was the magical passage of any knowledge into the teen-age human brain. If you wish to flaunt your dictionary acumen by practically quoting it verbatim on me, save it. I looked it up before I wrote it, and decided it was too narrow a definition. I stand by mine in defiance! Joseph McAllister Pentaxian http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 4 June 2010 08:11, David Mann d...@multisport.net.nz wrote: If it isn't your cup of tea, go have a coffee instead. You'll still get a caffeine hit, it just tastes different. At last! Something to Mark! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/4 Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com: If you wish to flaunt your dictionary acumen by practically quoting it verbatim on me, save it. I looked it up before I wrote it, and decided it was too narrow a definition. I stand by mine in defiance! Sorry Joe. Used to teach aquaculture and physiology in technical college. Please accept that I didn't have to look it up before writing it, any more than I suspect you of looking up any of the mac stuff you flaunt. :-) -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/4 Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com: On Jun 3, 2010, at 04:40 , AlunFoto wrote: 2010/6/3 paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net: I've restored from Time Machine on a number of occasions without difficulty. It seems to do an excellent job without my having to take any real action. It even backs up my encrypted files and enables restoration of them if they're lost or inadvertently altered. Thanks Paul. :-) two questions... I know you're an advanced user... Have you verified, by manual means or otherwise, that all the data you wish to back up are being included? The ultimate purpose of a backup is restore. Do you have any experience with restoring data from a Time Machine (TM)? Huh? Did he not just say that he has restored from Time Machine on a number of occasions? Yep, I was a little dense there. Sorry, Joe. And sorry, Paul. I ask you. Have you ever used Time Machine? Do you know what it does? Since I don't own a Mac, why would I have wasted money on a Time Machine? :-) But truth be told, I investigated the possiblilty of using a TM to back up my windows computers. Gave up on that and instead bought a piece of software that was more transparent on the details of what it was actually doing, and some generic USB disks. Software's called Acronis True Image and serves me very well. Can mail details if anyone's interested. Other than that, I only have experience with enterprise scale backup software, in the shape of Symantec's BackupExec and EMC2's deduplication system DataDomain, but yeah, I think I know what the TM does. In fact, I believe I have a better understanding of what the TM does than how user data are organised on a Mac. My superficial impression is that this is organised in much the same way as for Windows, but suspect there may be some caveats. Anyway, I know there are lots of Mac aficionados on this list like yourself, Steve Harley, Cotty and David Mann, but the more you're demonstrating their knowledge, the more likely it becomes that one actually _has_ to invest just as much into system knowledge with Macs as you have to with Windows, in order to use the system optimally. So instead, imagine I was a total newbie knowing nothing about the Mac except what the sales rep had toted me full of at the Mac shop. I set up LightRoom to deal with my photos because someone told me that's a must-have. LR tells me to back up my catalog sometimes, so I do. Someone tells me I should have a backup outside the Mac too, so I buy a TM and plug it in. But I can't be bothered beyond that, because everyone tells me it will save my butt if the Mac gets fried or stolen, as long as I don't turn the power off on the TM. Then one day shit happens, and the Mac is somehow beyond repair and/or retrieval. As a newbie I really don't know how to cope, so let's say I take my TM to the computer shop, and tell them I'll buy a new Mac from them on the condition that they help me restore my data. In this scenario, I must totally rely on the system. Would I retrieve everything? My images no matter where they were stored on the Mac's drive, they are probably all over the place since I'm a newbie. My LR catalog, my emails and contacts, my documents and whatever stuff I have downloaded for keeping. Oh, and of course I will most likely run into a problem with Adobe's bitchy DRM on LR, but that's beside the point just now, right? We're pretty much in agreement that Adobe would be well off doing something about that. Let's just assume the shop can fix that one for me. What say you? -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
It is my opinion, however, that anyone who thinks they can go out and buy their first computer, plug it in and start using it without reading the manual(s), attending a class, joining a support group, and more, is woefully assuming they are superhuman, Windows or Mac. or they might not have a computer at home. They might be coming back to work after time out for child-rearing, and be confronted with a computer for the first time ever, or the first time since the DOS days, and be expected to work it straight away. A few weeks ago I had to travel to one of our other offices to do some deskside support for the first time in 25 years, and the first time on Windows rather than green-screen mainframes. The office is full of middle-aged women working part-time to earn pin money who just want to use the computer to do exactly what they've been trained to do, which they've frequently misunderstood and dutifully written into their notebooks. As soon as anything slightly different happens they are all at sea, and too scared of the computer to try anything to help themselves. There are more people out there than you might realise who haven't a clue, and don't care. And why should they? The computers should work more like the TV and the toaster, and so should the systems that we IT people make them use. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/3 steve harley p...@paper-ape.com: don't know about elsewhere, but the U.S. monumentally botches driver education and testing; it considers a continuous massacre on the roads to be a necessity for preserving basic freedoms; little do the victims realize that they are martyrs for the cause Sorry to hear that. I will not speculate in whether this enforces or breaks the analogy... :-) Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
Oh, and of course I will most likely run into a problem with Adobe's bitchy DRM on LR, but that's beside the point just now, right? We're pretty much in agreement that Adobe would be well off doing something about that. Let's just assume the shop can fix that one for me. What say you? I don't think you'd have much trouble with Adobe on LR. I originally bought v1 for my 32-bit Windows XP and have just installed LR it on the new 64-bit W7 box from the same installation media - now v2 - followed by all the upgrades online. The original media also contain the Mac versions, so I guess it would work just as easily. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/4 Bob W p...@web-options.com: There are more people out there than you might realise who haven't a clue, and don't care. And why should they? The computers should work more like the TV and the toaster, and so should the systems that we IT people make them use. And marketing try to tote that, both Microsoft and Apple. Neither can deliver as promised. :-( -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/4 Bob W p...@web-options.com: I don't think you'd have much trouble with Adobe on LR. I originally bought v1 for my 32-bit Windows XP and have just installed LR it on the new 64-bit W7 box from the same installation media - now v2 - followed by all the upgrades online. The original media also contain the Mac versions, so I guess it would work just as easily. Good point. LR gives you a grace install. I should know since I have installed LR on both desktop and laptop with same serial. However, IIRC, you're still advised to uninstall the software from your hardware if migrating to a new box. -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
I don't think you'd have much trouble with Adobe on LR. I originally bought v1 for my 32-bit Windows XP and have just installed LR it on the new 64-bit W7 box from the same installation media - now v2 - followed by all the upgrades online. The original media also contain the Mac versions, so I guess it would work just as easily. Good point. LR gives you a grace install. I should know since I have installed LR on both desktop and laptop with same serial. However, IIRC, you're still advised to uninstall the software from your hardware if migrating to a new box. that's probably required under the terms of the licence anyway. When I was using the XP box I had to reinstall LR several times following reinstalls of XP when things started going wrong with the box. There was never any problem with reinstalling LR. On the other hand, MS Office... I have a legal copy of MS Office Professional, bought for peppercorns under the Home Use programme, and when I tried last week to reinstall it on this machine it told me I had used up all my activations and I now have to phone Microsoft to get them to activate it. I can understand them wanted to prevent piracy and illegal copying, but I'm pissed off about this. I've had to uninstall it and am now waiting until I have time to go through the whole re-install and get them on the phone at the same time. I've never had a book refuse to open because I've read it too many times. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 4, 2010, at 2:23 AM, John Sessoms wrote: You can do a screen shot, a window shot, or a selected area shot of any proportion or size with a Mac, either through keyboard shortcuts, or using the included with the O/S little program called Grab. Can't show you here, because this list has never gotten past the DOS 6.2.2 era. :-) Perhaps you can, but as I said, none of the Mac gurus at school could figure out how to do it. And this is a school? Pity the students. Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 4, 2010, at 3:48 AM, AlunFoto wrote: Then one day shit happens, and the Mac is somehow beyond repair and/or retrieval. As a newbie I really don't know how to cope, so let's say I take my TM to the computer shop, and tell them I'll buy a new Mac from them on the condition that they help me restore my data. In this scenario, I must totally rely on the system. Would I retrieve everything? My images no matter where they were stored on the Mac's drive, they are probably all over the place since I'm a newbie. My LR catalog, my emails and contacts, my documents and whatever stuff I have downloaded for keeping. Oh, and of course I will most likely run into a problem with Adobe's bitchy DRM on LR, but that's beside the point just now, right? We're pretty much in agreement that Adobe would be well off doing something about that. Let's just assume the shop can fix that one for me. What say you? If everything was on your startup drive, Time Machine would, in my experience, restore it flawlessly. When I restored my startup drive, TM had no problem with Adobe CS Design Suite. It also had no problems restoring the encrypted files that I keep on the startup drive. In fact, it had no problems whatsoever. Paul -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 2010-06-04 01:48 , AlunFoto wrote: Since I don't own a Mac, why would I have wasted money on a Time Machine? :-) But truth be told, I investigated the possiblilty of using a TM to back up my windows computers. really? Time Machine is software built into Mac OS X, you can't buy it separately, and you can't use it on Windows (you could rsync from Windows to a Mac server and let Time Machine from take it from there -- a workable low-tech solution in a heterogeneous environment) you seem have Time Machine confused with Time _Capsule_, which is a wireless/wired router plus NAS that Apple sells; on a Mac it integrates with Time Machine, but it doesn't automate backups for Windows, so would just be a somewhat spiffy router raw NAS http://www.apple.com/timecapsule/ but yeah, I think I know what the TM does. or what the Time _Capsule_ does? Anyway, I know there are lots of Mac aficionados on this list like yourself, Steve Harley, Cotty and David Mann, but the more you're demonstrating their knowledge, the more likely it becomes that one actually _has_ to invest just as much into system knowledge with Macs as you have to with Windows, in order to use the system optimally. define optimally? i've invested a lot in learning Mac OS, but i'm a software developer; i don't seek to know everything, i seek to know principles; so it helps that from both a users and a developer's perspective the Mac OS X the architecture is very consistent; being able to use my Unix skills that stem from circa 1980 is also handy; but i can also let go of knowing details and trust certain aspects of the system to just work, though they'll tend to behave in ways a more basic user would prefer; that's what i like about the iPhone, for example -- i can't tweak it, so i just let go and use it So instead, imagine I was a total newbie [...] Someone tells me I should have a backup outside the Mac too, so I buy a TM and plug it in. [...] actually, you can use any hard drive with the Time Machine software Then one day shit happens, [...] In this scenario, I must totally rely on the system. Would I retrieve everything? [...] Oh, and of course I will most likely run into a problem with Adobe's bitchy DRM on LR [...] What say you? yes, that's how Time Machine works (apart from the confusion with Time Capsule); in a total restoration scenario (which i haven't done personally) you can restore your whole setup to any computer and everything works; there are gotchas with activation schemes which are keyed to the physical hard drive; i'm not sure if Adobe still does that, but in those cases software may need reactivation, or if the activation scheme is particularly stupid, reinstallation -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 2010-06-04 00:23 , John Sessoms wrote: However the software doesn't give me the choice of NO. It only gives me the choice to change the configuration so as to make the drive useless or to cancel. If this were Windoze software, there would be some way to turn the software off. i think this is solvable, but vague descriptions are not going to cut it; obviously your gurus don't even know how to google so let me give you what i've got: first of all i plug multi-format drives into Macs all the time and get no such pop-up -- without the exact message text, it sounds to me like the message that occurs for unformated volumes or volumes whose format Mac OS X can't recognize; the same message can occur on drives with electrical/physical problems or with volume corruption so why are you getting the message? it might have to do with how La Cie sets up the drive -- La Cie is not the same fantastic vendor it was ten or fifteen years ago, they make futzy drives and i avoid them; is it possible there's an additional partition in an odd format, perhaps one supplied by LaCie? to find out open Disk Utility, click on the drive name in the left column, and click on the Partition tab -- what do you see? also what is the Partition Map Scheme reported toward the bottom of that display? are you on Mac OS X 10.5 or 10.6? btw, are you properly dismounting the drive before removing it? given the right details i can do some googling for your gurus -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:57 , steve harley wrote: On 2010-06-04 01:48 , AlunFoto wrote: Since I don't own a Mac, why would I have wasted money on a Time Machine? :-) But truth be told, I investigated the possiblilty of using a TM to back up my windows computers. snip you seem have Time Machine confused with Time _Capsule_, which is a wireless/wired router plus NAS that Apple sells; on a Mac it integrates with Time Machine, but it doesn't automate backups for Windows, so would just be a somewhat spiffy router raw NAS http://www.apple.com/timecapsule/ snip Anyway, I know there are lots of Mac aficionados on this list like yourself, Steve Harley, Cotty and David Mann, but the more you're You left out Paul Sorenson, Paul Stenquist, Adam Mass, John Francis, to name a few. I personally no longer consider myself anywhere near a Mac Guru, if I truly ever was. I'm damn good at figuring shit out in hardware or software, if I'm willing to take the time. Problem is, with my mind, if the same thing comes up a month later, I won't remember how I figured it out. That's why Apple has several hundred of my dollars for iMac (and any software that came with), MacBook (ditto), and Aperture which allows me to have someone immersed in the genre give me help in navigating the intricacies of the operation of the ever morphing modern computer. demonstrating their knowledge, the more likely it becomes that one actually _has_ to invest just as much into system knowledge with Macs as you have to with Windows, in order to use the system optimally. define optimally? i've invested a lot in learning Mac OS, but i'm a software developer; i don't seek to know everything, i seek to know principles; so it helps that from both a users and a developer's perspective the Mac OS X the architecture is very consistent; being able to use my Unix skills that stem from circa 1980 is also handy; but i can also let go of knowing details and trust certain aspects of the system to just work, though they'll tend to behave in ways a more basic user would prefer; that's what i like about the iPhone, for example -- i can't tweak it, so i just let go and use it snip actually, you can use any hard drive with the Time Machine software Then one day shit happens, [...] In this scenario, I must totally rely on the system. Would I retrieve everything? [...] Oh, and of course I will most likely run into a problem with Adobe's bitchy DRM on LR [...] What say you? yes, that's how Time Machine works (apart from the confusion with Time Capsule); in a total restoration scenario (which i haven't done personally) you can restore your whole setup to any computer and everything works; there are gotchas with activation schemes which are keyed to the physical hard drive; i'm not sure if Adobe still does that, but in those cases software may need reactivation, or if the activation scheme is particularly stupid, reinstallation Thank you Steve. You got up earlier than I this morning, or at least got online first. And you are a current developer compared to my 30 year old legacy. You covered almost all the points I had flagged from the previous posts. Steve is the type of person I wish I could talk to when I call Apple support and would like an error log looked at to tell me what and why, instead of the restart your Mac holding down the shift key or log out and create another user account that the 1st tier folks put you through, because they think your question will be answered by what comes up on their search of the knowledge database. I always look there first, and wouldn't be calling if a search came up with the answer. One refreshing change I've noticed in the past two months is that the 2nd tier troubleshooters give you their email address, their phone number, plus the hours and days they work. I'm sure (snicker) that Microsoft does the same for their customers. Oh, and Apple support folks are in several places in the eastern United States, plus Texas. If it doesn’t excite you, This thing that you see, Why in the world, Would it excite me? —Jay Maisel Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 4, 2010, at 00:37 , AlunFoto wrote: 2010/6/4 Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com: If you wish to flaunt your dictionary acumen by practically quoting it verbatim on me, save it. I looked it up before I wrote it, and decided it was too narrow a definition. I stand by mine in defiance! Sorry Joe. Used to teach aquaculture and physiology in technical college. Please accept that I didn't have to look it up before writing it, any more than I suspect you of looking up any of the mac stuff you flaunt. :-) I bow to your direct knowledge, and yet, still stand my my departed Father's oft spoken admonition; Go to your room and study, Joseph. You cannot learn math (or whatever) by osmosis! If it doesn’t excite you, This thing that you see, Why in the world, Would it excite me? —Jay Maisel Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 4, 2010, at 11:10 , steve harley wrote: On 2010-06-04 00:23 , John Sessoms wrote: However the software doesn't give me the choice of NO. It only gives me the choice to change the configuration so as to make the drive useless or to cancel. If this were Windoze software, there would be some way to turn the software off. i think this is solvable, but vague descriptions are not going to cut it; obviously your gurus don't even know how to google so let me give you what i've got: first of all i plug multi-format drives into Macs all the time and get no such pop-up snip given the right details i can do some googling for your gurus I refrained from commenting, because I could not for the life on me figure out why he would get such a message other than what you've mentioned about some irregularity in the formatting of a dual use drive. Oh, and a La Cie drive as well. Any drive I use is reformatted with the current version of Disk Utility before I use it. I don't use the One Button Backup or other little things that come with many drives, so do not need any software that they include on the drive. Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com “ It is still true, as was first said many years ago, that people are the only sophisticated computing devices that can be made at low cost by unskilled workers!” — Martin G. Wolf, PhD -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 2/6/10, John Sessoms, discombobulated, unleashed: I've yet to see any of them to get an image to open in Photoshop on first try. Same problems I have ... Oops I clicked it and it's opened the wrong program. Close that one and drag it onto the Photoshop icon. Bizarre. Something drastically wrong here, I have no such problems Where did the toolbar go? Where did the file land when it fell off the mouse pointer on the desktop? Finally got it open, did what I wanted to do to it, and want to save it to a certain location. When you first got in a car, I presume you had no instruction whatsoever and simple put your hands on the steering wheel expecting it to make a loud noise and move forward? -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 3/6/10, Rob Studdert, discombobulated, unleashed: OMG it is a religion! I thought the concept was a joke. All Windows users will burn in hell - no joke. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 03/06/2010, Cotty cotty...@mac.com wrote: When you first got in a car, I presume you had no instruction whatsoever and simple put your hands on the steering wheel expecting it to make a loud noise and move forward? Fortunately no license is required to operate a toaster. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 03/06/2010, Cotty cotty...@mac.com wrote: On 3/6/10, Rob Studdert, discombobulated, unleashed: OMG it is a religion! I thought the concept was a joke. All Windows users will burn in hell - no joke. And be forced to use a Mac for eternity I figure, dog help us. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: OT - Abobe Woes
OMG it is a religion! I thought the concept was a joke. All Windows users will burn in hell - no joke. I'll be ok, I have a fire-retardant black polo-neck. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 3/6/10, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: I'll be ok, I have a fire-retardant black polo-neck. Any true mac fan has the apple logo branded on his chest. Across a nipple. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 3, 2010, at 5:17 AM, steve harley wrote: On 2010-06-02 04:06 , David Mann wrote: For something that was created on a Mac, the system stores extra data that associates the file with the program that created it. this was true until 10.6 ... starting with Snow Leopard, the creator code associations are no longer respected by the system and the filename extension rules all; this is a huge step backward, imo, because many workflows involve the same _types_ of files opening in different applications Damn, I used to use that all the time on my workstation. I used to associate big jpg files with Photoshop and small ones with Preview. Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 6/3/2010 11:05 AM, Cotty wrote: On 3/6/10, Rob Studdert, discombobulated, unleashed: OMG it is a religion! I thought the concept was a joke. All Windows users will burn in hell - no joke. See you there ;-). Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/3 Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com: Doesn't say a thing about the quality of the system, of course. But Apple will eventually find itself in trouble if they don't deliver to this group. They do. You can use your Mac (iMac, MacBook, Whatever) right out of the box. Just like you can drive a new car off the lot without looking at the manual. But just like your car, you had better sit down and read the owner's manual and get an inkling of when to change the oil, where the fuse panel is, and a plethora of other niceties that will make your ownership for the life of the product more enjoyable and comfortable to operate. The comparison to car driving crossed my mind too. Computers are becoming tools every bit as ubiquitous as cars. However, most societies require drivers to prove their skills by obtaining a license before they can legally drive out of that parking lot. Maybe that should be introduced for computers as well. Many new Mac users do not read manuals until something goes wrong. It's in their genes, and external programming that makes them think it is so. Apart from the genes thing, that's exactly my point. A system cushioning the users with the impression that everything about the system is simple and intuitive doesn't help the situation one bit. Microsoft does try to catch up with Apple at every new OS launch, though. Marketing dept's are the same everywhere i guess... But the system most successfully getting the simple message across, will also attract the simplest users. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/3 Cotty cotty...@mac.com: On 3/6/10, Rob Studdert, discombobulated, unleashed: OMG it is a religion! I thought the concept was a joke. All Windows users will burn in hell - no joke. Sometimes it really gives a better perspective being atheist. -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/2 steve harley p...@paper-ape.com: i think Apple attempts to address these needs with an appliance approach rather than study the user manual, practice, stress about it and maybe you'll get it right; i personally believe that simplicity is overrated, but i also see that Apple's (and Microsoft's, and others') attempts in these areas do actually help people; for example the fact that Time Machine kicks in automatically on Macs means that a lot of people who would be haphazard or completely negligent with backups are actually getting decent backups without much effort; i have read many testimonials that Time Machine saved my butt Many products will do the same for PCs, despite not being made by the OS vendor. -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/2 steve harley p...@paper-ape.com: however Macs are extremely configurable for those who learn how; for example Time Machine may not be the best solution for photographers; among other reasons, those who use Lightroom or Aperture may wind up storing versions of databases that store versions, or users may already be exploiting backup features in these applications ... so photographers need to know how to configure Time Machine to avoid redundant redundancy, or how to choose an alternate backup scheme For those who learn how, nothing is difficult. My gripe with this was that Apple seem to attract the users least likely to be bothered with just that. Such a trust in any computer system seems quite unhealthy to me. Or are there any Mac users here who can stand up and guarantee that a Mac and a Time Machine will provide adequate backup of all user data straight out of the box. From reading that famous document, the manual, I'm not convinced. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 3/6/10, AlunFoto, discombobulated, unleashed: For those who learn how, nothing is difficult. My gripe with this was that Apple seem to attract the users least likely to be bothered with just that. Such a trust in any computer system seems quite unhealthy to me. Strange as it may seem, there are plenty of people in the world who would like to use a computer for various tasks - say, accessing the internet, Skyping distant relatives, writing a letter to the bank - but who are not the least bit interested in understanding how it works, how to manage it better, how to improve it, how to accomplish other tasks with it. In my opinion, the Mac can appeal to this type of person *as well as* the complete opposite. I first bought a computer not because I wanted to get 'into computing', rather because I wanted to achieve something specific: scanning and printing negatives. I'm not the slightest bit interested in how it works, as long as it works. Along the way, I have since learned of other things I can accomplish using the computer, and these include using a spreadsheet for my accounts, writing letters, and editing video to name a few. I've learned how to backup my vital data (like my video files and important letters and accounts) because if the computer crashes, I still want my important bits. I built 2 web sites but haven't touched the HTML. Sure they are limited in scope, but they do what I want them to do. That fact that Apple (seems to) attracts users least likely to be bothered with learning 'how' is far from a gripe - it is actually a big selling point, and indeed was such when the Mac was first launched. Apologies - time to go soothe the nipple ;) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/3 Cotty cotty...@mac.com: That fact that Apple (seems to) attracts users least likely to be bothered with learning 'how' is far from a gripe - it is actually a big selling point, and indeed was such when the Mac was first launched. My comment was not about the quality of the _system_ but an observation about a sample of its users. This is only a problem for the system insofar as it does not live up to the user's expectations. It is generally true that the less knowledge one has, the more unrealistic one's expectations will be. Partly because expectations are tempered by marketing lingo. So Apple's toting of their system as simple has set unrealistic expectations with the least competent users. Of course it's a good selling point for Apple, and they're hyping it for all it's worth. In my opinion for more than it's really worth. At the end of the day there's no substitute for knowing what you're doing with a computer, regardless of brand. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 3, 2010, at 5:18 AM, AlunFoto wrote: 2010/6/2 steve harley p...@paper-ape.com: however Macs are extremely configurable for those who learn how; for example Time Machine may not be the best solution for photographers; among other reasons, those who use Lightroom or Aperture may wind up storing versions of databases that store versions, or users may already be exploiting backup features in these applications ... so photographers need to know how to configure Time Machine to avoid redundant redundancy, or how to choose an alternate backup scheme For those who learn how, nothing is difficult. My gripe with this was that Apple seem to attract the users least likely to be bothered with just that. Such a trust in any computer system seems quite unhealthy to me. Or are there any Mac users here who can stand up and guarantee that a Mac and a Time Machine will provide adequate backup of all user data straight out of the box. From reading that famous document, the manual, I'm not convinced. Jostein I've restored from Time Machine on a number of occasions without difficulty. It seems to do an excellent job without my having to take any real action. It even backs up my encrypted files and enables restoration of them if they're lost or inadvertently altered. Paul -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/3 paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net: I've restored from Time Machine on a number of occasions without difficulty. It seems to do an excellent job without my having to take any real action. It even backs up my encrypted files and enables restoration of them if they're lost or inadvertently altered. Thanks Paul. :-) two questions... I know you're an advanced user... Have you verified, by manual means or otherwise, that all the data you wish to back up are being included? The ultimate purpose of a backup is restore. Do you have any experience with restoring data from a Time Machine (TM)? Jostein Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 07:15 -0400, paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: On Jun 3, 2010, at 5:18 AM, AlunFoto wrote: 2010/6/2 steve harley p...@paper-ape.com: however Macs are extremely configurable for those who learn how; for example Time Machine may not be the best solution for photographers; among other reasons, those who use Lightroom or Aperture may wind up storing versions of databases that store versions, or users may already be exploiting backup features in these applications ... so photographers need to know how to configure Time Machine to avoid redundant redundancy, or how to choose an alternate backup scheme For those who learn how, nothing is difficult. My gripe with this was that Apple seem to attract the users least likely to be bothered with just that. Such a trust in any computer system seems quite unhealthy to me. Or are there any Mac users here who can stand up and guarantee that a Mac and a Time Machine will provide adequate backup of all user data straight out of the box. From reading that famous document, the manual, I'm not convinced. Jostein I've restored from Time Machine on a number of occasions without difficulty. It seems to do an excellent job without my having to take any real action. It even backs up my encrypted files and enables restoration of them if they're lost or inadvertently altered. Hmmm. I somewhaty innocently started this thread so I dip in now and then to try to understand how it's managed to develop into such a monolith. The trouble is, now I have no idea at all what any of you are talking about.. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ -- -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/3 Brian Walters supera1...@fastmail.fm: Hmmm. I somewhaty innocently started this thread so I dip in now and then to try to understand how it's managed to develop into such a monolith. The trouble is, now I have no idea at all what any of you are talking about.. No worries, mate. Some just found it odd how mr. Butzi blamed Adobe exclusively, when an Apple upgrade precipitated his problem. From there it branched out in various facets of Apple/Microsoft/Adobe bashing. It has been mostly about OS'es, a little bit about DRM, and not at all about photography. I made a snide remark implying that Apple attract the most tecnologiacally ignorant users by marketing their system as simpler than the competition, and have questioned (with examples) whether Apple can actually deliver enough to take away the need for computer competance all together. Some arguments have been made to the contrary, but either way it's not convincing anyone to change their stance. Oh, and Joe McAllister has tried to win some branch of argument by message precision bombing, I think. All in good fun and religious reverie. :-) -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
So you admit that Mac worship is a religion?
On 6/3/2010 12:35 AM, Joseph McAllister wrote:
On Jun 2, 2010, at 19:22 , P. J. Alling wrote:
This still cracks me up...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWxC8ezE4Dk
Every religion (W)(A) is filled with crackpots who deride other's in
hopes you will follow their ideas, usually to your detriment in the
long run.
— John Locke
Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com
“ The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.”
— Kevan Olesen
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Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/3 AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com: I made a snide remark implying that Apple attract the most tecnologiacally ignorant users by marketing... Technologically, that would be. Fell under a spell, I guess... :-) -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 6/3/2010 12:34 AM, Rob Studdert wrote:
On 03/06/2010, Joseph McAllisterpentax...@mac.com wrote:
God, the rigidity of the mind of one who is schooled in the way of Windows
before seeing the true enlightened way of the Mac!
OMG it is a religion! I thought the concept was a joke.
Well now you know.
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Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 6/3/2010 4:55 AM, AlunFoto wrote:
2010/6/3 Cottycotty...@mac.com:
On 3/6/10, Rob Studdert, discombobulated, unleashed:
OMG it is a religion! I thought the concept was a joke.
All Windows users will burn in hell - no joke.
Sometimes it really gives a better perspective being atheist.
Linux user then?
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Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 6/3/2010 4:05 AM, Cotty wrote:
On 3/6/10, Rob Studdert, discombobulated, unleashed:
OMG it is a religion! I thought the concept was a joke.
All Windows users will burn in hell - no joke.
No they won't they /know/ they've served their time in hell.
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Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 3 June 2010 22:47, P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: OMG it is a religion! I thought the concept was a joke. Well now you know. This guy already knew, and dressed appropriately: http://poorlydressed.com/2010/01/19/fashion-fail-think-different-but-not-that-different/ or http://tinyurl.com/y94va9e regards, Anthony Of what use is lens and light to those who lack in mind and sight (Anon) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 6/3/2010 9:03 AM, Anthony Farr wrote:
On 3 June 2010 22:47, P. J. Allingwebstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
OMG it is a religion! I thought the concept was a joke.
Well now you know.
This guy already knew, and dressed appropriately:
http://poorlydressed.com/2010/01/19/fashion-fail-think-different-but-not-that-different/
or
http://tinyurl.com/y94va9e
Well, gee thanks for that, now I must really go wash my eyes out with
bleach.
regards, Anthony
Of what use is lens and light
to those who lack in mind and sight
(Anon)
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Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 03/06/2010 2:01 AM, Cotty wrote: When you first got in a car, I presume you had no instruction whatsoever and simple put your hands on the steering wheel expecting it to make a loud noise and move forward? My understanding is that is more or less how Macs are sold. They just work -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 6/3/2010 9:19 AM, William Robb wrote:
On 03/06/2010 2:01 AM, Cotty wrote:
When you first got in a car, I presume you had no instruction whatsoever
and simple put your hands on the steering wheel expecting it to make a
loud noise and move forward?
My understanding is that is more or less how Macs are sold.
They just work
As you know, cars just work too.
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Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 03/06/2010 5:56 AM, AlunFoto wrote: I made a snide remark implying that Apple attract the most tecnologiacally ignorant users And I confirmed it with another snide remark. Don't forget about that -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 03/06/2010 7:25 AM, P. J. Alling wrote: As you know, cars just work too. Interestingly enough, I had to take my truck back to the dealer during it's first rainstorm because I both couldn't get the windshield wipers to work and also couldn't figure it out from the little drawing in the manual. It was a brain fart of massive proportions, but there you go... -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 3, 2010, at 7:40 AM, AlunFoto wrote: 2010/6/3 paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net: I've restored from Time Machine on a number of occasions without difficulty. It seems to do an excellent job without my having to take any real action. It even backs up my encrypted files and enables restoration of them if they're lost or inadvertently altered. Thanks Paul. :-) two questions... I know you're an advanced user... Have you verified, by manual means or otherwise, that all the data you wish to back up are being included? The ultimate purpose of a backup is restore. Do you have any experience with restoring data from a Time Machine (TM)? Im not really an advanced user in the manner of all the IT people that populate this list. I learn only what I need to know. But Time Machine has worked fine for me. I restored my full startup drive after replacing a noisy unit, and every file and app performed flawlessly, as near as I could tell. Still running on the restored system and apps. I have no idea if Time Machine is a perfect solution, but it works fine for me. I rely on it to back up the 600 gig startup drive only. and it writes to a second 500 gig drive. The startup drive is only about 1/3 full and it pretty much stays at that level. The Time Machine backup is 90% full, and it stays at that level. I believe it automatically discards the oldest backups at that point. I keep my photo files on eight external drives. Two of the largest are backup only. I transfer critical files to those manually about once a week or whenever I have important files on hand. The most important files are on three drives. I also have a set of DVD backups for photo files. I also back up some critical files to on-line servers. Paul Jostein Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/3 William Robb war...@gmail.com: And I confirmed it with another snide remark. Don't forget about that Certainly not. Credits are due. :-) -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
Thanks Paul. It's the best testimony for Time machine I've seen so far. :-) Jostein 2010/6/3 P N Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net: On Jun 3, 2010, at 7:40 AM, AlunFoto wrote: 2010/6/3 paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net: I've restored from Time Machine on a number of occasions without difficulty. It seems to do an excellent job without my having to take any real action. It even backs up my encrypted files and enables restoration of them if they're lost or inadvertently altered. Thanks Paul. :-) two questions... I know you're an advanced user... Have you verified, by manual means or otherwise, that all the data you wish to back up are being included? The ultimate purpose of a backup is restore. Do you have any experience with restoring data from a Time Machine (TM)? Im not really an advanced user in the manner of all the IT people that populate this list. I learn only what I need to know. But Time Machine has worked fine for me. I restored my full startup drive after replacing a noisy unit, and every file and app performed flawlessly, as near as I could tell. Still running on the restored system and apps. I have no idea if Time Machine is a perfect solution, but it works fine for me. I rely on it to back up the 600 gig startup drive only. and it writes to a second 500 gig drive. The startup drive is only about 1/3 full and it pretty much stays at that level. The Time Machine backup is 90% full, and it stays at that level. I believe it automatically discards the oldest backups at that point. I keep my photo files on eight external drives. Two of the largest are backup only. I transfer critical files to those manually about once a week or whenever I have important files on hand. The most important files are on three drives. I also have a set of DVD backups for photo files. I also back up some critical files to on-line servers. Paul Jostein Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
Thursday, June 3, 2010, 1:15:18 AM, you wrote: C On 3/6/10, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: I'll be ok, I have a fire-retardant black polo-neck. C Any true mac fan has the apple logo branded on his chest. Across a nipple. C -- C Cheers, C Cotty Wow! Mac fans have nipples? And I thought they just had dual 'cores'...grin -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/3 Bruce Dayton bkday...@daytonphoto.com: Wow! Mac fans have nipples? And I thought they just had dual 'cores'...grin hehehe. Apple + nipples = napples? -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
There is no argument in the world that carries the hatred that a religious belief does. - Will Rogers On 6/3/2010 7:18 AM, P. J. Alling wrote: So you admit that Mac worship is a religion? On 6/3/2010 12:35 AM, Joseph McAllister wrote: On Jun 2, 2010, at 19:22 , P. J. Alling wrote: This still cracks me up... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWxC8ezE4Dk Every religion (W)(A) is filled with crackpots who deride other's in hopes you will follow their ideas, usually to your detriment in the long run. — John Locke Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com “ The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.” — Kevan Olesen No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2914 - Release Date: 06/02/10 13:25:00 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 2010-06-03 03:18 , AlunFoto wrote: Or are there any Mac users here who can stand up and guarantee that a Mac and a Time Machine will provide adequate backup of all user data straight out of the box. define adequate backup ... and just who would guarantee any backup without a high-priced monthly contract? Time Machine is a good basic backup, but it's not industrial-grade or even in itself business grade; but that's not it's intent; it's not a belt suspenders approach, it's a expandable elastic waistband approach; the real issue is that 95% of personal computer users don't do any real backups; Time Machine does a lot to help change that; it regularly saves people's butts out of the box the user gets an incremental backup system that can restore the state of the entire machine (to another machine if necessary), but it is not very sophisticated in terms of technical management tools; and a user would have to think a bit to make their backups redundant or off-site; personally i use Time Machine as part of a multi-pronged approach; Time Machine is probably the simplest of any backup system i have used, even though i've tweaked it a bit -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 2010-06-03 02:47 , AlunFoto wrote: The comparison to car driving crossed my mind too. Computers are becoming tools every bit as ubiquitous as cars. However, most societies require drivers to prove their skills by obtaining a license before they can legally drive out of that parking lot. Maybe that should be introduced for computers as well. don't know about elsewhere, but the U.S. monumentally botches driver education and testing; it considers a continuous massacre on the roads to be a necessity for preserving basic freedoms; little do the victims realize that they are martyrs for the cause -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
I thought I'd check in and see how it was going. I mean, how bad could it be? I might never be able to use my iPod Touch again. -Original Message- From: Anthony Farr farranth...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 23:03:25 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail Listpdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: OT - Abobe Woes On 3 June 2010 22:47, P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: OMG it is a religion! I thought the concept was a joke. Well now you know. This guy already knew, and dressed appropriately: http://poorlydressed.com/2010/01/19/fashion-fail-think-different-but-not-that-different/ or http://tinyurl.com/y94va9e regards, Anthony Of what use is lens and light to those who lack in mind and sight (Anon) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 3, 2010, at 01:05 , Cotty wrote: On 3/6/10, Rob Studdert, discombobulated, unleashed: OMG it is a religion! I thought the concept was a joke. All Windows users will burn in hell - no joke. Love it ! On the other hand, don't you think they've been in Hell long enough? Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com “If I could tell the story in words, I wouldn’t need to lug a camera.” –Lewis Hine -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 3, 2010, at 02:18 , AlunFoto wrote: Or are there any Mac users here who can stand up and guarantee that a Mac and a Time Machine will provide adequate backup of all user data straight out of the box. From reading that famous document, the manual, I'm not convinced. No one can guarantee anything, about anything, with the possible short term rising and setting of the sun and moon. Time machine does a heck of a good job (right outta the box), but it's only one backup, and itself designed to back up your main drive. I use it to back up several drives as well as my internal (boot) drive. On two occasions I've had to do a restore from a Time Machine backup, and have had no problems whatsoever other than the time it takes to restore 275 GB of iTunes and 235 GB of photographic images, each upon failure of a separate hard drive. IIRC, about 2 days per. In neither case did I have a failure of the O/S, permissions, privileges, or any of the hundreds of thousands of files, showing and hidden. I will say that I am still amazed at the number of log errors and bad files that are documented every day within those logs as the system makes on the fly corrections and/or documents anything amiss in the running software. It apparently does not bother people who write the stuff, as 99.99% of it is passed off as not worthy of note — just housekeeping. Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 03/06/2010 9:28 PM, Joseph McAllister wrote: On the other hand, don't you think they've been in Hell long enough? John has probably been in hell far longer than he would care to be. Seriously Joe, your beloved Macs don't work any better than a PC of equivalent component quality, and I suspect they work somewhat poorer than a PC that has been built to a high standard. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 01/06/2010, John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: .. I do get pissed off when, every time I open a .PDF file, I end up with a little taskbar notifier telling me there is an update available. I've tried to turn it off a couple of different ways, but it comes back. It's actually fairly well behaved in the latest incarnations from my experience. I have it installed on quite a few systems that I can not afford automatic update to occur and once auto-updates are disabled it stays that way. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 3, 2010, at 03:08 , AlunFoto wrote: 2010/6/3 Cotty cotty...@mac.com: That fact that Apple (seems to) attracts users least likely to be bothered with learning 'how' is far from a gripe - it is actually a big selling point, and indeed was such when the Mac was first launched. My comment was not about the quality of the _system_ but an observation about a sample of its users. This is only a problem for the system insofar as it does not live up to the user's expectations. It is generally true that the less knowledge one has, the more unrealistic one's expectations will be. Partly because expectations are tempered by marketing lingo. So Apple's toting of their system as simple has set unrealistic expectations with the least competent users. No one has used the term simple at Apple or in their marketing. Maybe simplify, certainly easy to learn the tasks advertised and a part of the installed apps on a Mac. It is my opinion, however, that anyone who thinks they can go out and buy their first computer, plug it in and start using it without reading the manual(s), attending a class, joining a support group, and more, is woefully assuming they are superhuman, Windows or Mac. 15 years ago I was still attending User Group meetings. Today I still go to the Apple Store for introductory sessions on any new hardware or software/ It's free, usually presented in a frustrating lowest common denominator manor, but I have always picked up some nugget I've overlooked in reading or hypothesizing about how it should work. Suppose your first camera was ever was a K20D. You'd be screwed up for years trying to figure out how and why it worked on your own, without at least reading the entire manual twelve times over. An intelligent person would seek help right off the bat, reading, conversing, attending, practicing. Of course it's a good selling point for Apple, and they're hyping it for all it's worth. In my opinion for more than it's really worth. At the end of the day there's no substitute for knowing what you're doing with a computer, regardless of brand. And not by osmosis, my friend, not by osmosis. Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com “ Nature is considerably more creative and inventive than humankind. Without Nature there isn't any humankind. Without humankind, Nature is fine.” -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 3, 2010, at 04:40 , AlunFoto wrote: 2010/6/3 paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net: I've restored from Time Machine on a number of occasions without difficulty. It seems to do an excellent job without my having to take any real action. It even backs up my encrypted files and enables restoration of them if they're lost or inadvertently altered. Thanks Paul. :-) two questions... I know you're an advanced user... Have you verified, by manual means or otherwise, that all the data you wish to back up are being included? The ultimate purpose of a backup is restore. Do you have any experience with restoring data from a Time Machine (TM)? Huh? Did he not just say that he has restored from Time Machine on a number of occasions? I ask you. Have you ever used Time Machine? Do you know what it does? Do you know that you can enter it and see the status of a file an hour ago, a day ago, 4 days ago, a week ago, a month ago, 7 months ago (if it existed then), a year ago, years ago? That restoring is as intuitive as selecting the file, folder, or drive you need restored, and, well, clicking on restore, to restore it. The most important thing to remember is, if you turn it off for some reason, be sure to turn it back on. Upgrading the O/S with TN running slows things down on all fronts. Rest assured though, the old O/S will be there if you do screw up, a window or two deep in the Time Machine screen. Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com THE SENILITY PRAYER : Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, The good fortune to run into the ones I do, and The eyesight to tell the difference. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
From: Daniel J. Matyola Based on my experience so far, it's easier to get the Windoze computer to do what *I* want it to do right out of the box That is not my experience. Windoze loads a lot of crap that I have to get rid of, and it makes it difficult to load non-MS programs and make them the default programs. Yeah. Windoze does load a lot of crap that has to be gotten rid of. The difference is you CAN get rid of it. And once you get rid of it, it STAYS gotten rid of. Give you another one. On Windoze, I can do a print screen and then paste the screen-shot into paint or Photoshop, crop to the part I want, save it as a jpeg and insert that jpeg into a Word (or Open Office Writer document as an illustration. None of the Mac gurus at school could figure out how to take a screen shot. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 3, 2010, at 04:56 , AlunFoto wrote: Oh, and Joe McAllister has tried to win some branch of argument by message precision bombing, I think. Thank you for acknowledging my presence, Jostein! Did I hit anything? -- It's not that life is too short, it's that you're dead for so long.. — Anon Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 3, 2010, at 05:18 , P. J. Alling wrote: So you admit that Mac worship is a religion? Not in the ecumenical sense, but yes. More of a fervor, I think. Like sports! Yankees and Red Sox. Manchester vs… vs… whoever they are versus in your neck of the planet. -- It's not that life is too short, it's that you're dead for so long.. — Anon Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com http://gallery.me.com/jomac -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 3, 2010, at 21:36 , John Sessoms wrote: From: Daniel J. Matyola Based on my experience so far, it's easier to get the Windoze computer to do what *I* want it to do right out of the box That is not my experience. Windoze loads a lot of crap that I have to get rid of, and it makes it difficult to load non-MS programs and make them the default programs. Yeah. Windoze does load a lot of crap that has to be gotten rid of. The difference is you CAN get rid of it. And once you get rid of it, it STAYS gotten rid of. Under what circumstances could you not do the same thing with a Macintosh? Give you another one. On Windoze, I can do a print screen and then paste the screen-shot into paint or Photoshop, crop to the part I want, save it as a jpeg and insert that jpeg into a Word (or Open Office Writer document as an illustration. None of the Mac gurus at school could figure out how to take a screen shot. You can do a screen shot, a window shot, or a selected area shot of any proportion or size with a Mac, either through keyboard shortcuts, or using the included with the O/S little program called Grab. Can't show you here, because this list has never gotten past the DOS 6.2.2 era. :-) Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com The Big Bang was silent, and probably invisible. — from the Pentaxian's thoughts on particle physics, so far. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 04/06/2010, Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com wrote: Suppose your first camera was ever was a K20D. You'd be screwed up for years trying to figure out how and why it worked on your own, without at least reading the entire manual twelve times over. An intelligent person would seek help right off the bat, reading, conversing, attending, practicing. You obviously don't frequent DPR, this is a common occurrence, there are regular my Canon PS makes prettier pictures than the K7 that I just bought, maybe it's broken. ;-) -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 2010-06-01 22:48 , P. J. Alling wrote: Some file systems don't use extensions, they associate programs and data using other methods. I don't know how Apple did it in the pre OS-X days, (I didn't care enough to actually learn), but Now I assume they use the Unix conventions. Mac OS X has several factors that control what application opens a file you double-click; until Mac OS X 10.6, the first choice was the same system as on Mac OS 9 and prior, a code embedded in the file metadata; other factors include the filename extension, the same system Windows uses; in 10.6 Apple broke a lot of sophisticated workflows by relying primarily on filename extension; like Windows, Mac OS X hides extensions by default -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
2010/6/1 Cotty cotty...@mac.com: In my experience, those who make a living from the tools they use make it a point to understand them and ensure they keep working, be that cameras, lenses or computers. In this respect, it will be the same for PC users and Mac users. Of course it should be the same. Keeping on top of computer issues is a prerequisite for successful business for any photographer. But it's a beancounter's argument. Any person interested in saving his or her memories of such a trip would be a lot better off with some general computer understanding. Besides, people use their computers for more purposes than just image storage/processing, and a little understanding really goes a long way. Both with regards to file management, backup and online security. Many users don't want to spend time learning how to use a computer; they just want it to do what they imagine it can do for them. I guess Apple marketing has been successful playing up to this dream, and thus attract many users that just can't be bothered. Doesn't say a thing about the quality of the system, of course. But Apple will eventually find itself in trouble if they don't deliver to this group. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 2, 2010, at 3:13 PM, William Robb wrote: Now I realize that Paul won't believe me, but a few years ago I was talking about computers with an acquaintance who is both a Mac user and an idiot. I mentioned something about file extensions and he didn't have a clue what I was talking about. He said (and I paraphrase) we don't use file extensions on Macs, we just click the icon and it opens. Apparently Macs just know what the file is by magic You're half right. For files that you get from elsewhere (eg download from the net or copied off an external drive) the system uses the extension to figure out what to open it with. There's really no practical alternative to this. For something that was created on a Mac, the system stores extra data that associates the file with the program that created it. That can be both a blessing and a curse... and it's the reason why Windows users will see lots of small files starting with ._ on shared drives. You can associate files individually to applications if you want. So you can have your jpg files open in Preview by default but associate a couple of big ones to Photoshop. And you override all this by just dragging the file into the app, or right-click the icon and choose the app from the list under Open With. Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 02/06/2010, Cotty cotty...@mac.com wrote: My point is that Jostein's sample users in the south Atlantic appears to me to be only indicative of a bunch of people on a photo trip to the south atlantic, with few full-time professional photographers on board. Using a computer, be it a Mac or a PC is part and parcel of the trade these days and any pro snapper who doesn't understand them to at least an intermediate level isn't going to be making much money from his or her craft! Can't agree, last year I had a series of posters made by a successful company and they seriously didn't understand colour spaces. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:48 AM, P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: Which don't necessarily need file extensions, there are a variety of methods that would work without extensions that don't involve magic. There are also methods that DO involve magic. http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man5/magic.5.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 2010-06-02 04:06 , David Mann wrote: For something that was created on a Mac, the system stores extra data that associates the file with the program that created it. this was true until 10.6 ... starting with Snow Leopard, the creator code associations are no longer respected by the system and the filename extension rules all; this is a huge step backward, imo, because many workflows involve the same _types_ of files opening in different applications That can be both a blessing and a curse... and it's the reason why Windows users will see lots of small files starting with ._ on shared drives. the ._ files hold much more than the old type creator code; they hold other metadata that is incompatible with Windows Linux filesystems, and will appear even for files without type creator codes And you override all this by just dragging the file into the app, or right-click the icon and choose the app from the list under Open With. that is how i open almost all files; it's also a way to avoid most Trojan horses -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 2010-06-02 03:32 , AlunFoto wrote: Besides, people use their computers for more purposes than just image storage/processing, and a little understanding really goes a long way. so might we expand László Moholy-Nagy's famous quote to say: The illiterate of the future will be ignorant of the use of the camera, computer and pen alike. Both with regards to file management, backup and online security. Many users don't want to spend time learning how to use a computer; they just want it to do what they imagine it can do for them. I guess Apple marketing has been successful playing up to this dream, and thus attract many users that just can't be bothered. i think Apple attempts to address these needs with an appliance approach rather than study the user manual, practice, stress about it and maybe you'll get it right; i personally believe that simplicity is overrated, but i also see that Apple's (and Microsoft's, and others') attempts in these areas do actually help people; for example the fact that Time Machine kicks in automatically on Macs means that a lot of people who would be haphazard or completely negligent with backups are actually getting decent backups without much effort; i have read many testimonials that Time Machine saved my butt any system like this is bound to mean annoyance, confusion or even trouble for some; i am having trouble finding the perfect stove for my home too, because many are too automatic or have a fifth burner i don't want; the simpler ones for some reason are more expensive however Macs are extremely configurable for those who learn how; for example Time Machine may not be the best solution for photographers; among other reasons, those who use Lightroom or Aperture may wind up storing versions of databases that store versions, or users may already be exploiting backup features in these applications ... so photographers need to know how to configure Time Machine to avoid redundant redundancy, or how to choose an alternate backup scheme -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On 6/2/2010 7:27 AM, Matthew Hunt wrote:
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:48 AM, P. J. Alling
webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
Which don't necessarily need file extensions, there are a variety of methods
that
would work without extensions that don't involve magic.
There are also methods that DO involve magic.
http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man5/magic.5.html
So whey the curse It's F*ckin' Black Magic. for me.
--
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New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the
interface subtly weird.\par
}
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the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 1, 2010, at 02:54 , steve harley wrote: On 2010-05-31 12:22 , P. J. Alling wrote: Richer and better educated doesn't necessarly translate to more intellegent. which is why i didn't say i had disproved the assertion; just pointing out how fruitless my search for the study had been Though it used to be that Mac users didn't want to know anything about the mechanics of their boxes and Dos/Windows users were forced to. And that was most likely what they used at the office, so they had to learn it well enough because IT took forever and always denigrated me while they fixed it I'll show them!. that stereotype was mostly generated by Apple marketing -- playing to people's insecurities about whatever computer they were using i don't know that it was ever really well-founded but from my perspective almost no one shows much interest in how the computers they use work, regardless of the brand, and largely uncorrelated with intelligence By and large Macs are bought by people for the reason Steve postulated. Have to have a computer, Macs are easier. Anyone who uses any brand of computer becomes proficient in what they use it for and the software they use. If an amateur photographer from newbie to skilled uses iPhoto to store, adjust and distribute their photos there is little need for them to buy and learn Aperture or Photoshop, although marketing and magazines they subscribe to certainly put tons of pressure on them to do so. They certainly wouldn't know about a spreadsheet unless they use it to maintain a database of their camera equipment. They would most likely buy a copy of Bento, because it's marketed as easy to keep a household inventory which may or may not be true. I have it, started to use it, but found a spreadsheet much faster to set up, modify, and search. I had VersaCalc (iirc) then Lotus 123 on my Apple ][+. I used to be a Filemaker guru on the Apple IIgs, FileMaker Pro on the Mac IIfx, so I'm not unaware of database use. Databases take more time to configure, but are generally better in the long run for inventoried items, because of their search engine speed and report generation. Most likely they were amateurs who, when they planned the trip, realized that had to bring a laptop along to d/l their images from their cameras, modify in some way, and store. Hey, I'd better get a laptop now and figure out how to do that so I don't look like a dummy. Apple (Macbook) is supposed to be easy, I'll pick up one of those tomorrow (and learn it in 6 weeks). If they used a laptop at work, it was likely a Dell, and that's what they brought, and knew how to use. Joseph McAllister Lots of gear, not much time http://gallery.me.com/jomac http://web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 1, 2010, at 04:44 , AlunFoto wrote: For example, one of the guys made a substantial (his word) income from printing fine art for other artists. He owned one of those giant Epsons, nine thousand something. I had to help him recover his LR catalogue twice, convert his emails to text-only, help him set up his Macbook PRO to take backup to his portable disk... In general I have never seen anyone struggle so much with a computer interface has he did. He still maintained, though, that Mac was simpler than PC. From watching him, I was less convinced. He was a damn fine photographer, though. He was a photo savant. Computer? Feh! Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com There is no off position to the genius switch. Genius can, however, be observed as insanity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 1, 2010, at 06:11 , William Robb wrote: With Mac, you are locked in to what Steve Jobs tells you to buy. Now I realize that he and Jesus Christ are one and the same to (apparently most) Mac users, but I still like the option of choice. Then for daddy God's sake, buy a Mac and use the terminal interface, Bill. You will feel refreshed. Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com “ The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.” — Kevan Olesen -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT - Abobe Woes
On Jun 1, 2010, at 06:27 , William Robb wrote: I reiterate: Adobe had 1.5 years advance notice. Apple made available lists of software that would break. Adobe was at the top of the alpha list. Adobe, in couched terms, basically said their software would break under undisclosed circumstances. So what you are saying is that it is Adobe's job to rewrite software that is already on the market to pander to a computer maker's broken new OS? How about the OS maker ensuring that their system is compliant with what is already on the market? That's stupid. Adobe knew they would be coming out with a new version of CS that would work fine under OS 10.6, and opted to NOT do a minor upgrade to their legacy products, forcing their clients to spend the money for the upgrade to a major new version. Apple knew that re-writing the OS to contain much more machine language and operate more efficiently would drop a lot of developers out at first. It's like OS 10.5 was written to run on many legacy Macs, and on the Dual Core IBM chips as well. 10.6 will only run on the newer Macs, and do NOT have all the crap in them that lets it run on much older non-IBM Macs. Bottom line: The major OSs are written for speed and efficiency. The software developers that design programs to run under those OSs must comply with the platform they choose to write for. Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com “ It is still true, as was first said many years ago, that people are the only sophisticated computing devices that can be made at low cost by unskilled workers!” — Martin G. Wolf, PhD -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
