[RBW] Re: Super long chainstays and putting your bike buses/trains

['Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I don't know exactly (and it may vary somewhat with different styles), but the 
bus racks in Seattle fit a current Atlantis, but not a 59 Clem. Rightly or 
wrongly they are designed for bikes with traditionally "normal" wheelbases, and 
by traditional standards, 47-48cm chainstays (which I like) are already on the 
long end of the spectrum.

My raising the question is not a value judgement on super long stays, nor is it 
questioning their effect on handling.

Eamon

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Dave Small]

I've been out on a 6-day tour and mostly offline, and got home today to the 
Blug and this 128-post (as I type) string.  I've just read through 'em all 
and Scott is the only one who's broached the thing I latched onto when I 
read the Blug:  What is a "combo tig-fillet BB shell?"  Does anyone know? 
 I'm as happy with fillet-brazed as I am with lugged, but I'm not enamored 
with TIG.

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 8:30:22 PM UTC-4, Scott McLain wrote:
>
> I would be interested in learning what drove the decision on the bottom 
> bracket shell/ lug whatever.  Fillet brazed doesn’t sound as good as 
> lugged.   
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Super long chainstays and putting your bike buses/trains

[dougP]

A general question to be sure & likely different systems have variability, 
but does anyone have an idea what wheelbase range may be accommodated by 
bus racks?  It would seem that the wide variety of bikes used by commuters 
would require a fairly generous range.  I understand the hold down bar on 
the fender problem, but I'm thinking the wheel trays must be pretty long.

Hanging on a train I can see the problem & have encountered it.  Several 
years ago, on a light rail system, I struggled to hang my '03 58 cm 
Atlantis from the designated hook.  I had 2 panniers,which I had to take 
off, and the front wheel stuck out into the doorway area.  Seemed like the 
hook was in a bad spot but a regular train user told me it was a recent add 
on.  Amtrak used to also have a hook system but they were high enough for 
the bike to hang straight.  Of course, you still had to remove luggage & 
drag it upstairs.  

dougP

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:34:18 PM UTC-7, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>
> I was just thinking about how Rivendell is moving towards very long 
> chainstays, and how that might impact people wanting to put their bike on 
> the racks on city buses, or the hooks on light rail trains. I don't 
> personally use either very often, but do occasionally need to do both 
> options. I personally wouldn't consider a bike that was too long for the 
> bus or commuter train. I don't know how long the new Atlantis is, but in 
> the case of the Clem in my size, I'm pretty sure that they are too long for 
> the racks on Seattle city buses. I'm not sure on others, since the geometry 
> charts don't list wheelbase length. It probably impacts transporting your 
> bike with a car as well.
>
> I'm not arguing for or against the choice - it just got me thinking that 
> there is a potential downside that is unrelated to whether or not you like 
> the handling or looks.
>
> Eamon
> Seattle
>

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[RBW] Re: Well, Here’s a Spot of Snow

[Ian A]

Congratulations Deacon! That is some compliment, to be used as a cover 
person on the Rivendell site. A well deserved compliment indeed.

IanA

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 2:19:26 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Aye, Tom. I’m a cover lad now! They wisely asked for a photo that has me 
> very far off. Grin. 
>
> With abandon, 
> Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[dougP]

Since the issue of public transport has arisen, and people are concerned 
about how longer chainstay bikes will fit onto trains & buses, my question 
is:

How much variation in wheelbase can be accommodated by typical bus racks & 
train hangers?  

E.G., the difference in wheelbase between my old '03 Atlantis & a current 
model 58 cm is roughly 3/4".  A generous / crazy / whimsical doubling of 
that for the MIT version makes it only an 1-1/2" longer.  Surely the 
typical rackage on a bus should handle several inches of variation when you 
think about all the different kinds of bikes commuters use.  I've never 
used a bus rack so I may be missing something.  Experience users input 
welcome.

dougP

On Monday, March 19, 2018 at 3:10:48 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> The BLUG today announced an upcoming pre-sale for a less expensive 
> Atlantis.  No doubt they will be made in Taiwan.  The pricing hint is "a 
> tad more than an Appaloosa".  Is it good that Rivendell is evolving?  I say 
> yes.  Is it a little sad that the Atlantis is changing?  I say sure, a 
> little.  I'd bet a dollar that some of their recent cashflow worries came 
> from the financials around this change.  Made to order frames are expensive 
> but cost you nothing until somebody wants to buy one.  Taiwan builds have 
> to be done in expensive pre-paid runs, which require a bunch of cash on 
> hand.  
>
> The curved double TT of the biggest size was on instagram I think.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA 
>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[phil k]

Iono I'm liking the new Atlantis better.

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[dougP]

I think that's it.  Notice the "tentacular" stays.  Something about a fax'd 
sketch that got mis-interpreted, IIRC.  It was a limited run, blind faith 
purchase, and those who got them who commented really liked them.  May have 
been the first super long chainstay design.  Others may have better 
recollection or updated info though.

dougP



On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 4:18:26 PM UTC-7, lconley wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 7:12:47 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> The Tentacular Mystery Bike became the Bombadil?? I did not know this. 
>>
>> Joe "I first called them tentacles. You're welcome" Bernard
>>
>
> Is this one of the mystery bikes or something later?
>
>
> 
>
>
> Laing
>
>
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[M D Smith]

71

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[RBW] FS: Large Tan SaddleSack

[Stephen W.]

SOLD PENDING FUNDS

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Ron Mc]

36

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 8:25:57 PM UTC-5, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:
>
> 68
>
>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

[bo richardson]

i love mine a lot. it was also a gift and it basically gets its own little 
shelf in the kitchen.
i am lo klutzy and am pretty careful when soap is involved.
maybe there is enough unfilled desire that you could initiate a class action 
pre paid order through riv?

bo

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[tc]

For those like me who like to compare...


Tom

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Re: [RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Curtis McKenzie]

33

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 6:50 PM Dave  wrote:

> 88
>
> --
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>

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[RBW] Re: Pre-MIT Atlantis vs. Hunq for more roadish riding

[tc]

Now that's a handsome bike.

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[RBW] Re: Pre-MIT Atlantis vs. Hunq for more roadish riding

[Drw]

I’ve had both. 29er hunq and 650b Atlantis. Id look at top tube size and wheel 
size and tire clearance as the main differentiators. 
Tubing is very very similar. Just stays and fork crown are a little thicker on 
the hunq.

I had drops on the hunq and it was ok but not ideal. In the same way, I don’t 
feel like very swept back bars are ideal on the Atlantis. 

I sold the hunq because I like big tires but not big tires on 29er rims. 

I think If the top tube Length and wheel/tire size was the same, anyone would 
be hard pressed to notice a difference. 

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Peter Adler]

62

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Dave Small]

76

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Dave Small]

76


On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 6:46:46 PM UTC-4, John wrote:
>
>
> 
>
> Hi
>
>
> I seem to have Two of the Riv Goines posters. I’ll never frame and hang 
> both, SO
>
>
> I’m giving one away...I have a number between 1 & 100 written down.
>
>
> Post a comment with a 2 digit number between 1 and 100. I’ll check back in 
> a day or so, see if anyone has guessed correctly.   Example -  “65” - 
> nothing else. Having only the two digit number makes it easy to scan the 
> list
>
>
> First person who posts the corect 2 digit number gets the Poster. I’ll pay 
> shipping. One Guess per person!  
>
>
> Yes there is a catch!  I ask whoever gets the poster makes a donation of 
> any size to 826 Valencia 
>
>
>  (http://826valencia.org)
>
>
> And, if you are reading this you can donate, even without a poster. 
>
>
> Thanks for reading
>
>
> John O
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Leif Eckstrom]

22

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[RBW] Re: Pre-MIT Atlantis vs. Hunq for more roadish riding

[CMR]

The Atlantis is less beefy and made to fit drop bars better, I would hands 
down pick it for road riding.

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Reid Echols]

30

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[VeloVert]

28

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Dave]

88

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Ryan Merrill]

I found a Toyo built Atlantis fully built up for $1600 on this group...keep 
an eye peeled, you can probably get one you like. 

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 7:30:09 PM UTC-5, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>
> My comments should all be viewed through the filter of someone who really 
> wants an Atlantis, got excited about the prospect of being able to afford 
> one, only to realize that this new version would not work for me. I’m sure 
> it’s a great bike, and don’t mean to poop on anybody’s party lawn. Maybe I 
> can afford a Waterford version in the future. 
>
> Eamon

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[RBW] Re: New Roadini; Bag... Sackville or Swift Industries

[lambbo]

This is all super helpful!  

Bob, to answer your question about saddle height, 32.6", which is about 
3/4" higher than in the photo.  I'm 6'1, and I thought this bike would be 
too big, it's not, it's perfect, tho I might get a shorter stem to bring 
the bars a hair closer, eventually. 

I think I'm going to go with the Small Sackville Saddle Sack - in blue...it 
seems small enough that I'm not transforming my Roadini into my Cheviot ;) 
 but big enough for an extra layer and a sketchpad.  

The Bagman support also seems smart - tho i'll try to jerry-rig something 
first.  

And CMR, I'm gonna get some new brakes - was trying to build from the parts 
bin but I ended up with almost all new stuff - brakes will top it all off. 

Thanks again pics when I get it!

 

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

65

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Nick Ybarra]

14

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 5:46:46 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
>
>
> 
>
> Hi
>
>
> I seem to have Two of the Riv Goines posters. I’ll never frame and hang 
> both, SO
>
>
> I’m giving one away...I have a number between 1 & 100 written down.
>
>
> Post a comment with a 2 digit number between 1 and 100. I’ll check back in 
> a day or so, see if anyone has guessed correctly.   Example -  “65” - 
> nothing else. Having only the two digit number makes it easy to scan the 
> list
>
>
> First person who posts the corect 2 digit number gets the Poster. I’ll pay 
> shipping. One Guess per person!  
>
>
> Yes there is a catch!  I ask whoever gets the poster makes a donation of 
> any size to 826 Valencia 
>
>
>  (http://826valencia.org)
>
>
> And, if you are reading this you can donate, even without a poster. 
>
>
> Thanks for reading
>
>
> John O
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Super long chainstays and putting your bike buses/trains

['Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks. If a 51 fits, but only just, I suspect a 58 might be iffy.

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

68


>

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

68

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 5:46:46 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
>
>
> 
>
> Hi
>
>
> I seem to have Two of the Riv Goines posters. I’ll never frame and hang 
> both, SO
>
>
> I’m giving one away...I have a number between 1 & 100 written down.
>
>
> Post a comment with a 2 digit number between 1 and 100. I’ll check back in 
> a day or so, see if anyone has guessed correctly.   Example -  “65” - 
> nothing else. Having only the two digit number makes it easy to scan the 
> list
>
>
> First person who posts the corect 2 digit number gets the Poster. I’ll pay 
> shipping. One Guess per person!  
>
>
> Yes there is a catch!  I ask whoever gets the poster makes a donation of 
> any size to 826 Valencia 
>
>
>  (http://826valencia.org)
>
>
> And, if you are reading this you can donate, even without a poster. 
>
>
> Thanks for reading
>
>
> John O
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

['Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I don’t believe I insulted Grant’s work, and sure didn’t intend to. I didn’t 
say anything about not fitting geometry charts or my ideals - I said it may no 
longer fit a bike rack on the bus, or the hooks on the trains. It is just a 
practical matter.

Eamon
Seattle 

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Belopsky]

Because angles

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 8:30:22 PM UTC-4, Scott McLain wrote:
>
> I would be interested in learning what drove the decision on the bottom 
> bracket shell/ lug whatever.  Fillet brazed doesn’t sound as good as 
> lugged.   
>
> I think it is super cool that Grant pops in and out of the forum to shed 
> light on the why.  Since he has given us the “mic drop”, can anyone else 
> shed light on why they would change the bottom bracket.  Seams like it is 
> the most important spot on the bike frame. 
>
> I agree you can’t improve if you don’t change.  I also think it is okay to 
> be nice to Grant, or we could all be riding Aluminum. 
>
> Scott 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Mattt]

70

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[John G.]

42

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[RBW] Re: Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

[Brian Campbell]

I am not sure that this is the exact model but this is the company thats 
makes the mugs for Riv. It has no cool graphics but it gets the job done:

https://www.redwingstoneware.com/shop/water-cooler-mugs-12-oz/

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 8:55:21 PM UTC-4, thalasin wrote:
>
> My Rivendell mug unfortunately met with its demise thanks to my klutzy 
> ways.  I had one in my cart to order but foolishly waited, hoping that some 
> out of stock stuff would reappear to add to the order.  Alas, not only did 
> that not happen, but now the mugs are gone and removed from the site.  
> Given the current state of affairs, it's probably going to be awhile before 
> any promo stuff shows up (if ever).  Anyway, it was my favorite mug and I 
> miss it dearly.  We can discuss price and I will of course pay shipping.
>
> Tracy
>

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[RBW] Re: Well, Here’s a Spot of Snow

[ascpgh]

Just got home. 

It was treacherous with black ice this morning, but passable this morning 
since so few cars were out on my roads at that early hour. The "snowcrete" 
was inches to my right when I did yield the lane. Tonight enough had melted 
(sublimated) in the sub freezing daylight to clear my way well enough even 
to account for more traffic on the road with me. 

My red hybrid Ventile smock has been just outstanding, even without patch 
adornment on the left sleeve!  

Andy Cheatham 
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 4:17:59 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> How’d the ride go, Andy? 
>
> I’m constantly ammused by the snow conditions I ride. Some are plowed, 
> some aren’t. What is in good, ridable condition one minute may be near 
> impassable the next if it gets plowed, or driven on, or the next day the 
> unplowed is far harder because of the freeze/thaw cycles it’s now 
> “snowcrete” but without a fat bike I break through, or even on trails, they 
> are easy to ride the virgin snow, but if even one person has walked it 
> already, can be near impossible. Snow manages to create multiple layers of 
> microcosm adventure matrices. Grin. 
>
> With abandon, 
> Patrick

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Chris Birkenmaier]

74

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Re: [RBW] Pre-MIT Atlantis vs. Hunq for more roadish riding

[René Sterental]

Hi Tom,

For whatever it's worth, I had a Hunqapillar and (still) an Atlantis. When
I had to decide which one to keep, and since I was doing pretty much just
road riding, the Atlantis won hands down. I don't really know what it was
exactly that made the difference, but riding the Atlantis was heaven to
earth compared to riding the Hunqapillar on the road for me.

I'm trying to downsize, which is why now the Atlantis frame is for sale.
Even though my custom and my Atlantis have the same tubing, the custom fits
so perfectly that again, I perceive its ride quality to be much more suited
to me. Without the custom, only my Homer was superior to the Atlantis for
road riding.

René

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 5:38 PM, tc  wrote:

> For those who've owned both, or have significant time on both, how would
> you compare them for road riding?
>
> I get the idea that a lot of people (no, not all) use their Hunq's for
> more roadish ventures than not.
>
> I imagine that as off-road riding veers toward rougher stuff, the Hunq
> would perform better.
>
> Does the pre-MIT Atlantis perform significantly better as the riding veers
> toward more road riding?
>
> Tom
>
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Re: [RBW] Atlantis fork axle to crown

[René Sterental]

Hi Mike,

Sorry about the delay, I was out of town.

My original Atlantis fork for my 61cm 700c frame measures about 39.4cm
(hard to get an exact measurement) in a straight line from the top of the
crown (right above the middle white dot) to the center of the axle, and
when trying to measure along the curve of the fork, the measurement comes
to about 41cm.

If you need more precision than that, I can try using a string and then
measuring the string, but I'd need to enroll my wife to help me out.

Hope this helps,

René

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 7:58 PM, 'frank_a' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Mike,
> 400mm...tape end hooked on a pencil in the dropouts to the crown race.
> - Frank
>
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[RBW] Pre-MIT Atlantis vs. Hunq for more roadish riding

[tc]

For those who've owned both, or have significant time on both, how would 
you compare them for road riding?

I get the idea that a lot of people (no, not all) use their Hunq's for more 
roadish ventures than not.

I imagine that as off-road riding veers toward rougher stuff, the Hunq 
would perform better.

Does the pre-MIT Atlantis perform significantly better as the riding veers 
toward more road riding?

Tom

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[RBW] Bump - FS: 61cm Waterford Atlantis frame, low trail custom fork and CK headset - $1,500 OBO

[René Sterental]

Hi all,

The upcoming lower cost Taiwanese Atlantii calls for a reduction in the
asking price for my beloved frame. Now asking $1500 including shipping to
CONUSA or pickup in the SF South Bay for $1400.

Included is the Chris King headset with a drilled cable stop I was using to
attach the Berthoud decaleur so it wouldn't interfere with the height or
type of handlebar, plus a fork mounted cable stop for the cantilever brakes
you'll probably use.

Note: The custom low trail fork has a maximum tire size or 700x40 and 50mm
fenders. The original fork has a capacity of 50mm tires, and is also
included. Even though the paint color is theoretically the same, it doesn't
quite match the new custom paint job I had done when the custom fork was
made and painted.

Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/38814361130/in/datetaken-
public/
Keep scrolling for more detailed photos.

Photos of the Atlantis during its lifetime with me: https://www.flickr.com/
photos/orthie251/albums/72157625129486363

Other parts will be posted in time, when I have time to clean them nicely,
but if you're interested, contact me off-list.

I'll have the frame packed by my LBS and shipping will be via Bike Flights.

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

['kobe' via RBW Owners Bunch]

56

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

['Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My comments should all be viewed through the filter of someone who really wants 
an Atlantis, got excited about the prospect of being able to afford one, only 
to realize that this new version would not work for me. I’m sure it’s a great 
bike, and don’t mean to poop on anybody’s party lawn. Maybe I can afford a 
Waterford version in the future.

Eamon

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[RBW] Lower price Atlantis!

[Scott McLain]

I would be interested in learning what drove the decision on the bottom bracket 
shell/ lug whatever.  Fillet brazed doesn’t sound as good as lugged.  

I think it is super cool that Grant pops in and out of the forum to shed light 
on the why.  Since he has given us the “mic drop”, can anyone else shed light 
on why they would change the bottom bracket.  Seams like it is the most 
important spot on the bike frame.

I agree you can’t improve if you don’t change.  I also think it is okay to be 
nice to Grant, or we could all be riding Aluminum.

Scott 

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Bill Lindsay]

Eamon said *"Jeez Bill, this is a discussion forum, not a positive 
approving comments only forum. :p "*

You are right.  Nobody is required to be generous and kind in their 
comments towards Grant or his work.  If you want to insult his work, you 
can.  Just be aware that your honest and sincere criticisms will bum him 
out, somewhat.  Grant said:



*"It's a minor bummer to find the latest greatest prides and joys evaluated 
harshly because the numbers don't fit into familiar spreadsheets, whether 
on paper on in brains. I'll retreat now..."*The things you type here do get 
read, and Grant cares what people think. You don't have to change what you 
think to protect Grant's feelings, and you don't have to keep your 
complaints to yourself if you don't want to, but I think it's worth 
remembering that it will hurt his feelings, and it will discourage him from 
sharing early info about other unfinished projects.  Grant's a big boy and 
he will get over it.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 4:37:50 PM UTC-7, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>
> Jeez Bill, this is a discussion forum, not a positive approving comments 
> only forum. :p 
>
> As for myself, I totally applaud most of the changes, and totally agree 
> that long (and short) chainstays can have positive ride qualities (I like 
> high, low, and mid trail too). It’s just that for ME a touring bike needs 
> to be able to a bike I can occasionally transport by bus/train/car to get 
> out to where I want to ride. I almost got a Clem when they came out, until 
> I realized I would never be able to transport it. 
>
> I’m sure it rides great, and I would never suggest a bike get designed by 
> committee (Rawland...), but I think it’s ok for some people to be bummed 
> that the Atlantis had some well thought out new features and great new 
> price, but other changes that make it a complete deal killer. For me, a 
> really long bike is probably never going to leave the city - the opposite 
> of a touring bike. 
>
> I hope they sell well, regardless. 
>
> Eamon

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Jonathan D.]

23

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[tc]

99

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[RBW] Re: Big Beautiful Orange 'beam

[Tim O. (Portland, OR)]

Just called, only to find out that it's basically spoken for :/ Probably for 
the best though for the finances...

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[RBW] David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[EasyRider]

04

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[RBW] FS: Large Tan SaddleSack

[Stephen W.]

This is also posted on Instagram so the timestamp rule is in effect. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BgpRiEwAreK/

Thanks. 

Stephen

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Ryan Merrill]

I do think the new Atlantis is going to be a better touring bike than the 
previous versions, not that the previous versions were bad. The one I had I 
liked, but it was mostly a trail bike for me. It excelled in a lot of areas 
even though I wasn't riding it as a touring bike. In a fit of stupidity I 
sold it and I do wish I never did. 

But, the new one with the new price, new feature/benefits and same awesome 
color could entice me to buy one. Stability in a touring rig is a big 
benefit, and a long bike is going to help with stability. Stability does 
not mean sluggish and I don't see this new Atlantis being sluggish. I can't 
wait to hear ride reports on it. 

Just an aside - I'm super happy today...I just picked up my Appaloosa 
frameset from FedEx and I'm just looking at it and how wonderful the frame 
is. I have most of the parts to put it together except for a wheelset. Rivs 
are just great bikes. 

On Monday, March 19, 2018 at 5:10:48 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> The BLUG today announced an upcoming pre-sale for a less expensive 
> Atlantis.  No doubt they will be made in Taiwan.  The pricing hint is "a 
> tad more than an Appaloosa".  Is it good that Rivendell is evolving?  I say 
> yes.  Is it a little sad that the Atlantis is changing?  I say sure, a 
> little.  I'd bet a dollar that some of their recent cashflow worries came 
> from the financials around this change.  Made to order frames are expensive 
> but cost you nothing until somebody wants to buy one.  Taiwan builds have 
> to be done in expensive pre-paid runs, which require a bunch of cash on 
> hand.  
>
> The curved double TT of the biggest size was on instagram I think.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA 
>

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Jacob]

02

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[RBW] Re: Big Beautiful Orange 'beam

[Birdman]

The big ones don’t come around often, Tim...

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[RBW] David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Palmer]

96
Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI

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[RBW] WTB 56 cm Hunqapillar

[jandrews_nyc]

Thought these came in 54 & 58... did the hunqa-sizes change ?

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[jandrews_nyc]

21

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Abcyclehank]

49

Ryan Hankinson
West Michigan

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[RBW] Re: Anyone have a spare Rivendell mug they're willing to part with?

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I looked to order a mug two days ago and searched all over the site and 
couldn’t find it. Was afraid they may have stopped selling them because the 
item disappeared without a photo remaining and an “out of stock” notation.  I 
almost bought one when I was ordering a bunch of stuff during the crunch a 
couple of weeks ago.

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[RBW] Re: Big Beautiful Orange 'beam

[Tim O. (Portland, OR)]

Oh no! It's my size! Ahh!!

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[RBW] WTB- Sackville Saddle Sack Large, Pref Olive

[Stephen W.]

I posted a Large Tan Sack for sale...just wanted to give you a "heads up". 

Best,

Stephen 

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Joe Bernard]

Yep. 

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

['Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Jeez Bill, this is a discussion forum, not a positive approving comments only 
forum. :p

As for myself, I totally applaud most of the changes, and totally agree that 
long (and short) chainstays can have positive ride qualities (I like high, low, 
and mid trail too). It’s just that for ME a touring bike needs to be able to a 
bike I can occasionally transport by bus/train/car to get out to where I want 
to ride. I almost got a Clem when they came out, until I realized I would never 
be able to transport it.

I’m sure it rides great, and I would never suggest a bike get designed by 
committee (Rawland...), but I think it’s ok for some people to be bummed that 
the Atlantis had some well thought out new features and great new price, but 
other changes that make it a complete deal killer. For me, a really long bike 
is probably never going to leave the city - the opposite of a touring bike.

I hope they sell well, regardless.

Eamon

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Kainalu V.]

*13*


On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 6:46:46 PM UTC-4, John wrote:
>
>
> 
>
> Hi
>
>
> I seem to have Two of the Riv Goines posters. I’ll never frame and hang 
> both, SO
>
>
> I’m giving one away...I have a number between 1 & 100 written down.
>
>
> Post a comment with a 2 digit number between 1 and 100. I’ll check back in 
> a day or so, see if anyone has guessed correctly.   Example -  “65” - 
> nothing else. Having only the two digit number makes it easy to scan the 
> list
>
>
> First person who posts the corect 2 digit number gets the Poster. I’ll pay 
> shipping. One Guess per person!  
>
>
> Yes there is a catch!  I ask whoever gets the poster makes a donation of 
> any size to 826 Valencia 
>
>
>  (http://826valencia.org)
>
>
> And, if you are reading this you can donate, even without a poster. 
>
>
> Thanks for reading
>
>
> John O
>
>
>

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[RBW] FS: Large Tan SaddleSack

[Stephen W.]

I can provide more pics upon request.

Stephen 

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[steve]

31

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 6:46:46 PM UTC-4, John wrote:
>
>
> 
>
> Hi
>
>
> I seem to have Two of the Riv Goines posters. I’ll never frame and hang 
> both, SO
>
>
> I’m giving one away...I have a number between 1 & 100 written down.
>
>
> Post a comment with a 2 digit number between 1 and 100. I’ll check back in 
> a day or so, see if anyone has guessed correctly.   Example -  “65” - 
> nothing else. Having only the two digit number makes it easy to scan the 
> list
>
>
> First person who posts the corect 2 digit number gets the Poster. I’ll pay 
> shipping. One Guess per person!  
>
>
> Yes there is a catch!  I ask whoever gets the poster makes a donation of 
> any size to 826 Valencia 
>
>
>  (http://826valencia.org)
>
>
> And, if you are reading this you can donate, even without a poster. 
>
>
> Thanks for reading
>
>
> John O
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Richard Rios]

51

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[David B]

43

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 5:46:46 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
>
>
> 
>
> Hi
>
>
> I seem to have Two of the Riv Goines posters. I’ll never frame and hang 
> both, SO
>
>
> I’m giving one away...I have a number between 1 & 100 written down.
>
>
> Post a comment with a 2 digit number between 1 and 100. I’ll check back in 
> a day or so, see if anyone has guessed correctly.   Example -  “65” - 
> nothing else. Having only the two digit number makes it easy to scan the 
> list
>
>
> First person who posts the corect 2 digit number gets the Poster. I’ll pay 
> shipping. One Guess per person!  
>
>
> Yes there is a catch!  I ask whoever gets the poster makes a donation of 
> any size to 826 Valencia 
>
>
>  (http://826valencia.org)
>
>
> And, if you are reading this you can donate, even without a poster. 
>
>
> Thanks for reading
>
>
> John O
>
>
>

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[RBW] WTB: Black Saddlesack Large or Medium

[WETH]

Black medium Saddlesack procured.  Thanks to all who sent me leads and offers.  
With appreciation,
Erl 

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[RBW] 51

[Eric Floden]

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[RBW] Re: David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[sameness]

26

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[lconley]

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 7:12:47 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> The Tentacular Mystery Bike became the Bombadil?? I did not know this. 
>
> Joe "I first called them tentacles. You're welcome" Bernard
>

Is this one of the mystery bikes or something later?




Laing


 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[iamkeith]

>
> .
>
>
> You have snow on the ground 7 months a year?   If so, maybe your "other 
> bike" should be something like this
>
>
>
:-)  You mock, but if you only knew  here's the road and hot springs 10 
miles from my house.  These tourists are shuttled up on dog sleds, riding 
side-by-side with me.  But I need to get at least a few miles in in the 
dark months. 






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[RBW] David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Joe Bernard]

17

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Joe Bernard]

The Tentacular Mystery Bike became the Bombadil?? I did not know this. 

Joe "I first called them tentacles. You're welcome" Bernard

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[RBW] David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Matt Rhodes]

59

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[RBW] David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Christopher Murray]

46

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[RBW] David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Deacon Patrick]

87

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[RBW] Re: Roadini build and first ride report!

[Austin]

So the sample 50cm Grilver Roadini I picked up for my wife via the Web 
Specials Frames page on rivbike.com arrived today.

Totally well packed as expected. The frameset is magnificent--again, 
expected. What was not expected--the downtube Roadini decal. Instead of the 
red/green decal, it came with a blue/silver decal--and it looks stellar! I 
think it's the same decal as on the RBW blue frame. I posted a few pics 
below.

Don't know how many like this are floating around out there, but I just get 
my jollies thinking about the uniqueness of it. 

Roadini Album on Google Photos:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mzS7GGLPmwn5dCx73

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[sameness]

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

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[RBW] David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[Stephen W.]

77

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[RBW] David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[J Imler]

27

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Steve Palincsar]

On 03/22/2018 06:36 PM, iamkeith wrote:




Honestly, I think that Weigle's got the "comfortable" and "long
distance" things well in hand.  Maybe not the "tent plus cannibal
cooking pot plus your entire wardrobe stuffed into a duffel bag"
side of
"touring," though.

...As does the Homer/Sam.    I know this wasn't your point, but others 
might misinterpret your comment as a suggestion that the Atlantis 
should have evolved into a low-trail, $15,000, weight-weenie,  
all-road bike.


Perish the thought.  I was off on a tangent, reacting to extremes & 
fatbikes.  The Atlantis never entered into it.   Although, I suppose in 
a sense you could say the Atlantis is optimized for an extreme (loaded 
touring) vs bikes more aimed at the middle (what we used to call "sport 
touring").





Now if only you had one of those Classic Rendezvous sigs like mine
below...   Where do you live, anyway?


I live in Wyoming.  Just for kicks, here's a picture of my four most 
oft-ridden bikes, in my yard at this moment, /after/ the Spring 
solstice and an unusually mild winter.   I don't see how anyone could 
call that long-chainstay All Rounder (ie: Atlantis) the 'fringe' bike 
among them - unless they're talking the 'other' end of the spectrum.







You have snow on the ground 7 months a year?   If so, maybe your "other 
bike" should be something like this


Image result for sled dogs










On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 3:49:28 PM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:



On 03/22/2018 05:42 PM, iamkeith wrote:
> Jeesh, you guys.  I think that I, or maybe most of us, forget how
> idiosyncratic our world views are.   I'm certainly guilty of
> forgetting that most of this forum is made up of people how live
in or
> near urban areas and ride on paved surfaces - however 'rough'
they may
> be.  But remember that one man's fringe is another man's middle.
>  That fatbike is what I'm forced to ride for 7 months out of a
year,
> if I wish to even get on a bike at all.   The other 5 months, my
> actual "roads" look like backcountry trails compared to the
buffed-out
> fire trails in the hills around RBW Headquarters.

Now if only you had one of those Classic Rendezvous sigs like mine
below...   Where do you live, anyway?


>
> The Atlantis is NEVER going to be appropriate for even the middle
> ground, for me.   A hard-tail, 29+ mountain bike, perhaps.  If you
> want a bike in the vein of the Weigle/Heine Concours rig, get a
damn
> Homer or Sam.  The Atlantis is and always was optimized for
> comfortable, long-distance touring on any surface it's likely to
> encounter.

Honestly, I think that Weigle's got the "comfortable" and "long
distance" things well in hand.  Maybe not the "tent plus cannibal
cooking pot plus your entire wardrobe stuffed into a duffel bag"
side of
"touring," though.



-- 
Steve Palincsar

Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[lconley]

I have a "new long wheelbase" Bombadil. I am sure that there were many that 
> mourned the loss of the "short wheelbase" Bombadil and longed for the 
> double top tube instead of the diaga-tube and tentacles. I just know that 
> if I had to ride one of my bikes around the world, this would be it. Old, 
> too bright of a back ground picture - currently being converted to drop 
> bars.



 

Laing
Cocoa FL

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[RBW] David Lance Goines Riv Bike Poster

[John]

Hi


I seem to have Two of the Riv Goines posters. I’ll never frame and hang 
both, SO


I’m giving one away...I have a number between 1 & 100 written down.


Post a comment with a 2 digit number between 1 and 100. I’ll check back in 
a day or so, see if anyone has guessed correctly.   Example -  “65” - 
nothing else. Having only the two digit number makes it easy to scan the 
list


First person who posts the corect 2 digit number gets the Poster. I’ll pay 
shipping. One Guess per person!  


Yes there is a catch!  I ask whoever gets the poster makes a donation of 
any size to 826 Valencia 


 (http://826valencia.org)


And, if you are reading this you can donate, even without a poster. 


Thanks for reading


John O


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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[iamkeith]

>
>
>
> Honestly, I think that Weigle's got the "comfortable" and "long 
> distance" things well in hand.  Maybe not the "tent plus cannibal 
> cooking pot plus your entire wardrobe stuffed into a duffel bag" side of 
> "touring," though. 
>
 
...As does the Homer/Sam.I know this wasn't your point, but others 
might misinterpret your comment as a suggestion that the Atlantis should 
have evolved into a low-trail, $15,000, weight-weenie,  all-road bike.


> Now if only you had one of those Classic Rendezvous sigs like mine 
> below...   Where do you live, anyway? 
>
>
I live in Wyoming.  Just for kicks, here's a picture of my four most 
oft-ridden bikes, in my yard at this moment, *after* the Spring solstice 
and an unusually mild winter.   I don't see how anyone could call that 
long-chainstay All Rounder (ie: Atlantis) the 'fringe' bike among them - 
unless they're talking the 'other' end of the spectrum.







On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 3:49:28 PM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 03/22/2018 05:42 PM, iamkeith wrote: 
> > Jeesh, you guys.  I think that I, or maybe most of us, forget how 
> > idiosyncratic our world views are.   I'm certainly guilty of  
> > forgetting that most of this forum is made up of people how live in or 
> > near urban areas and ride on paved surfaces - however 'rough' they may 
> > be.  But remember that one man's fringe is another man's middle.  
> >  That fatbike is what I'm forced to ride for 7 months out of a year, 
> > if I wish to even get on a bike at all.   The other 5 months, my 
> > actual "roads" look like backcountry trails compared to the buffed-out 
> > fire trails in the hills around RBW Headquarters. 
>
> Now if only you had one of those Classic Rendezvous sigs like mine 
> below...   Where do you live, anyway? 
>
>
> > 
> > The Atlantis is NEVER going to be appropriate for even the middle 
> > ground, for me.   A hard-tail, 29+ mountain bike, perhaps.  If you 
> > want a bike in the vein of the Weigle/Heine Concours rig, get a damn 
> > Homer or Sam.  The Atlantis is and always was optimized for 
> > comfortable, long-distance touring on any surface it's likely to 
> > encounter. 
>
> Honestly, I think that Weigle's got the "comfortable" and "long 
> distance" things well in hand.  Maybe not the "tent plus cannibal 
> cooking pot plus your entire wardrobe stuffed into a duffel bag" side of 
> "touring," though. 
>
>
>
> -- 
> Steve Palincsar 
> Alexandria, Virginia 
> USA 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[David Johnston]

I think the new Atlantis will absolutely be a better touring bike! I
have a 56cm, 26" 1st run Atlantis and its the squirrelest of all the
Riv's I've owned/tried. (Ram, Rom, Heron, Bleriot, Joe) Something
about the smaller wheel diameter combined with road bike geo, doesn't
put a lot of weight on or inertia in the front wheel. The front end
can wash out and oversteer with or without bags. If you raise the bars
it gets noticeably worse. Think about the vast difference in center of
gravity between low drops, high drops and Choco bars! It's hard to
design for all those.

Solution: Long chainstays! That will put more weight on the front end!
Longer stays will help with pannier heel clearance, and tire clearance
as well.

Note: I've been using my Atlantis last year as an unloaded road bike
and loving it. Putting fat comfortable tires on a road bike was a
brilliant idea, but it can and should be improved. I no longer notice
the squirly front end if I ride it for 30% of my rides.

It does seem close to the Appaloosa, but I can see a space where one
is designed for uprights and one is designed for drops. That change
and the associated weight shift really does deserve a different
geometry I think.

Dave J
Virginia


On 3/22/18, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>
>
> On 03/22/2018 05:42 PM, iamkeith wrote:
>> Jeesh, you guys.  I think that I, or maybe most of us, forget how
>> idiosyncratic our world views are.   I'm certainly guilty of
>> forgetting that most of this forum is made up of people how live in or
>> near urban areas and ride on paved surfaces - however 'rough' they may
>> be.  But remember that one man's fringe is another man's middle.
>>  That fatbike is what I'm forced to ride for 7 months out of a year,
>> if I wish to even get on a bike at all.   The other 5 months, my
>> actual "roads" look like backcountry trails compared to the buffed-out
>> fire trails in the hills around RBW Headquarters.
>
> Now if only you had one of those Classic Rendezvous sigs like mine
> below...   Where do you live, anyway?
>
>
>>
>> The Atlantis is NEVER going to be appropriate for even the middle
>> ground, for me.   A hard-tail, 29+ mountain bike, perhaps.  If you
>> want a bike in the vein of the Weigle/Heine Concours rig, get a damn
>> Homer or Sam.  The Atlantis is and always was optimized for
>> comfortable, long-distance touring on any surface it's likely to
>> encounter.
>
> Honestly, I think that Weigle's got the "comfortable" and "long
> distance" things well in hand.  Maybe not the "tent plus cannibal
> cooking pot plus your entire wardrobe stuffed into a duffel bag" side of
> "touring," though.
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia
> USA
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Deacon Patrick]

Grant’s vision for improving bikes has grown and evolved over time and we are 
all here becuase we literally love the ride. He received flack for wider tires, 
was proven right, country bikes, was proven right. Grant, keep being the mad 
genius! And let me know when one of these long chain stay bikes has horizontal 
drop outs! I wanna ride one myself and see how they do.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] WTB 56 cm Hunqapillar

[Stephen W.]

I'll have a 56 Hunqapillar frame/fork/head set for sale when my 59 arrives. It 
should arrive in 2 to 5 months. (Hopefully sooner than later).

Stephen 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Steve Palincsar]

On 03/22/2018 05:42 PM, iamkeith wrote:
Jeesh, you guys.  I think that I, or maybe most of us, forget how 
idiosyncratic our world views are.   I'm certainly guilty of  
forgetting that most of this forum is made up of people how live in or 
near urban areas and ride on paved surfaces - however 'rough' they may 
be.  But remember that one man's fringe is another man's middle.  
 That fatbike is what I'm forced to ride for 7 months out of a year, 
if I wish to even get on a bike at all.   The other 5 months, my 
actual "roads" look like backcountry trails compared to the buffed-out 
fire trails in the hills around RBW Headquarters.


Now if only you had one of those Classic Rendezvous sigs like mine 
below...   Where do you live, anyway?





The Atlantis is NEVER going to be appropriate for even the middle 
ground, for me.   A hard-tail, 29+ mountain bike, perhaps.  If you 
want a bike in the vein of the Weigle/Heine Concours rig, get a damn 
Homer or Sam.  The Atlantis is and always was optimized for 
comfortable, long-distance touring on any surface it's likely to 
encounter.


Honestly, I think that Weigle's got the "comfortable" and "long 
distance" things well in hand.  Maybe not the "tent plus cannibal 
cooking pot plus your entire wardrobe stuffed into a duffel bag" side of 
"touring," though.




--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Bill Lindsay]

Summary:

The Rivendell Atlantis is a masterpiece.  It is arguably the finest loaded 
touring frameset ever made.  Rivendell/Grant just put a lot of time, money 
and emotional energy into a re-design of their true "flagship".  They made 
it ~$1000 less expensive, more stable (longer) and more comfortable 
(upright), while not eliminating the $2700 original.  Some people seem to 
disapprove of one or more of these objectives, but none has explained why 
they think the Rivendell MIT Atlantis will be an inferior loaded touring 
bicycle to its predecessor.  Most capitalist humans express their 
disapproval of a durable good by not buying it.  Some people would just try 
to say something nice to Grant/Riv, seeing as they essentially just saved 
themselves from closing.  If you can't possibly think of something 
constructive and positive to say, and just can't hold in your complaints 
and criticisms, I guess let them fly if you must.  I think the MIT Atlantis 
is a splendid looking bike, and I know for a fact I've never ridden a bike 
like it, because there's never been a bike quite like it.  I'm eager to 
hear more about it, and I hope it works out for Rivendell Bicycle Works. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA



On Monday, March 19, 2018 at 3:10:48 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> The BLUG today announced an upcoming pre-sale for a less expensive 
> Atlantis.  No doubt they will be made in Taiwan.  The pricing hint is "a 
> tad more than an Appaloosa".  Is it good that Rivendell is evolving?  I say 
> yes.  Is it a little sad that the Atlantis is changing?  I say sure, a 
> little.  I'd bet a dollar that some of their recent cashflow worries came 
> from the financials around this change.  Made to order frames are expensive 
> but cost you nothing until somebody wants to buy one.  Taiwan builds have 
> to be done in expensive pre-paid runs, which require a bunch of cash on 
> hand.  
>
> The curved double TT of the biggest size was on instagram I think.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[dougP]

I rode the 56 cm / 650B Atlantis last summer at RBWHQ, and noticed it was 
subtly different from my 58 cm / 700c '03.  Roman gave me the executive 
summary of changes without dwelling on anything.  I noticed the chainstays 
looked straighter than the "S" curve on mine.  He may have mentioned longer 
chainstays but maybe not.  While I didn't put more than a few minutes on 
the bike, I actually noticed it I liked the ride better.  At the time, I 
chalked it up to "new bike effect".  Looking at the current geo charts, the 
56 cm / 650B has chainstays that are 2 cm longer than my '03; only a chubby 
3/4"ish.  Not much but noticeable (in a good way).  

It occurs to me that longer stays move the wheel back & so perhaps give 
more tire clearance?  This could be a really good thing for those wanting 
to exceed the previous 55 mm & 2.1" max tire width.  Looking forward to 
more hints & tidbits as they dribble out.

dougP

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 11:58:57 AM UTC-7, Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
> Well put Tony.
>
> It has me intrigued.
>
> hugh
>
> On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 3:28:48 PM UTC-7, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>>
>> I have to admit I'm now contemplating what I'd do if presented with a new 
>> 650B Atlantis shod with 2.35" Schwable semi-slicks otherwise built up like 
>> my Saluki with 42mm Compass BSP's...  Which one would I prefer?!?
>>
>> The prospect of a more wallet friendly price and a 650B tire size in what 
>> I consider to be the quintessential Riv is pretty intriguing.  I wonder if 
>> it'll clear tubeless mounted 2.35" tires with full fenders?
>>
>> I've been enjoying kid hauling duties on my wife's 52mm Clementine with 
>> 2.35" tires.  Not sure I see any downside to that size tire for my riding.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Grant Petersen]

've ridden every iteration of the Atlantis and have convinced myself (if
nobody else!) that I have a good feel for how they ride. I know it's easy
to look at numbers or air gaps and lock in to a conclusion, but riding the
bike (which, I understand, few people of the luxury to do before buying it)
is a better test.

 The 3.5% to 4% wheelbase increase doesn't demerit the flat-paved ride
quality at all (read: I can't tell). Last week on trails I thought it was
"on the quick side of things." On trails I prefer the much longer CLEM 59.
The CLEMs were the bikes that opened my eyes. When Keven got his custom, he
wanted LONGER than 56cm chainstays. His favorite bike ever, and still his
main everyday bike with 15,000+ miles on it, is the 56cm-chainstayed
Cheviot.

It's tough. These are largely emotional and theoretical discussions. Here
inside me, I feel like I'm coming to realize and getting my eyes opened to
ways to make bikes ride even better. It's a minor bummer to find the latest
greatest prides and joys evaluated harshly because the numbers don't fit
into familiar spreadsheets, whether on paper on in brains. I'll retreat now
with these parting words: As good as the earlier Atlantis bikes are, the
newie tops 'em, but the difference is subtle, and the bar and wheel choice
have far more influence on a bike's spiritedness than the chainstays.

OK!

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Grant Petersen  wrote:

> The point which I flopped in making is that a bike that "performs" at the
> fringes can certainly handle the middle, but not necessarily the other way
> around. I should have been more clear.
>
> Grant
>
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 1:01 PM, John Phillips 
> wrote:
>
>> Grant wrote,
>>
>> "We've ridden a lot of bikes, lots of variations, and we live surrounded
>> by roads and trails no more than 15 minutes by bike away. It's not DP-Rocky
>> Mtn style, but as BL and JW and other locals will attest, it's hard to
>> beat. More important, we ride them. I admittedly don't have the challenges
>> of fitting bikes into elevators or navigating 3-floor walkups, and I'm
>> sympathetic to those who do, but that's what Bromptons are for."
>>
>>So...the Atlantis is changing from a touring bike to a Mt. Diablo
>> trail/fire road model for East Bay, non-multi-modal commuting, ranch home
>> owners? To me this is clear as mud, and it seems like a very small
>> demographic to be aiming at.
>>
>>
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[iamkeith]

Jeesh, you guys.  I think that I, or maybe most of us, forget how 
idiosyncratic our world views are.   I'm certainly guilty of  forgetting 
that most of this forum is made up of people how live in or near urban 
areas and ride on paved surfaces - however 'rough' they may be.  But 
remember that one man's fringe is another man's middle.   That fatbike is 
what I'm forced to ride for 7 months out of a year, if I wish to even get 
on a bike at all.   The other 5 months, my actual "roads" look like 
backcountry trails compared to the buffed-out fire trails in the hills 
around RBW Headquarters. 

The Atlantis is NEVER going to be appropriate for even the middle ground, 
for me.   A hard-tail, 29+ mountain bike, perhaps.  If you want a bike in 
the vein of the Weigle/Heine Concours rig, get a damn Homer or Sam.  The 
Atlantis is and always was optimized for comfortable, long-distance touring 
on any surface it's likely to encounter.  Though, if you're riding on hard 
surfaces and don't have to pop the front end up, I STILL don't understand 
the aversion to long stays.  It's always going to be far more of a road 
bike than a mountain bike.

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[RBW] Re: Super long chainstays and putting your bike buses/trains

[REC]

51cm. 

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 1:20:28 PM UTC-4, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>
> Roberta, out of curiosity, what size Joe Appaloosa do you have?
>
> Eamon
>
> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 8:35:12 AM UTC-7, REC wrote:
>>
>> When I got my Joe Appaloosa, I rode it to a bus depot and tested it out 
>> on the bus front bike carrier and it fit OK.  ALMOST too long, but it did 
>> fit.  Afterwards, I got fenders on the bike and retested and it was fine (I 
>> think I'm recalling that correctly), just that I needed to place the hold 
>> down arm on the fender.  If anyone needs to be sure, I'll be happy to go 
>> back to a bus depot and retest, take pictures, measure anything you'd 
>> like.  Septa is my local mass transportation company and you can see the 
>> bike carrier (it might be the same as on your busses)  on this short video: 
>>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2KIDh7ZDFs   
>>
>> I haven't loaded my Joe A. on a bus, but I have brought it on a Septa 
>> regional train.  I was at a stop that didn't have a platform and carrying 
>> up the three huge steps into the car from the street level was tough.  If I 
>> need to do that again, I'd ride to a stop with a platform and roll it on.
>>
>> Roberta
>>
>> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 10:22:03 AM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>>
>>> I commute to work; some days I take the train, some days I ride the 
>>> whole way. I make sure not to ride the Clementine on train days. This ain't 
>>> the Bay area & people get annoyed enough by regular sized bikes, I KNOW I 
>>> would hear it if I took the Clementine on the train! :-O
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Tim Butterfield]

Of course they all ride great.  They're Rivs!  :)  Has there ever been a
bad one?  I'm not sure I've heard of one.  But, each has different areas in
which they excel.  I doubt a Roadeo would make as a good a tourer as the
current Atlantis or the Atlantis as good for a club ride as the Roadeo.
But, in excelling for one area, they give up something in others.  They are
not all equally all rounders.  With something as iconic as the Atlantis,
any change is viewed with keen interest.  I'm glad I got my current 26
Atlantis, though I wish I could finish other tasks so I could get it put
together.  Still, I am interested in learning the scope of what might have
been sacrificed for some things in the new one to make it better as a
mountain bike and possibly other things.  There is a shifting on the scales
and we're not yet sure where the boundaries for the new model ended up.
Like you say, it may be only some extensive riding will determine that.  In
the mean time, we speculate.  :)

Tim

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I think we might want to wait 'til someone's ridden the new Atlantis
> before we completely lose our freaking minds!!! I've owned: Romulus,
> Bleriot, AHH, Rambouillet, Saluki, Appaloosa, a couple Clems (one H, one
> L), and now a Cheviot. They all rode great, and even the very roadish
> Romulus handled China Camp's (Marin County, CA.) singletrack quite well.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Steve Palincsar]

On 03/22/2018 05:06 PM, Tim Butterfield wrote:

Steve,
That fat bike is a good example of what I was trying to say.  I 
suspect this may be a difference of _optimized_ for the fringe versus 
just _passable_ at the fringe.  Expanding into the passable scope may 
not sacrifice the other end of the range as much as the optimized 
scope.  But, the more you move from passable to optimized at one end, 
the greater the sacrifice at the other.


Yes.  Heavily optimized for the center -- say something like this (Peter 
Weigle's Concours bike) --




is going to do pretty well out near the fringes, as this very bike 
demonstrated at the Concours last year, while obviously killing it in 
the middle of the range.  Not as good as a fat bike on sand or snow, 
obviously, but that's as specialized and single-purpose as this Snow Cat


Image result for tracked snow vehicle

and hardly the car you'd want to take on your next drive down the New 
Jersey Turnpike...


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[RBW] Re: Big Beautiful Orange 'beam

[Joe Bernard]

I can concur that Will is a lovely fellow to talk to on the phone. And I hate 
talking on the phone!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Tim Butterfield]

Steve,
That fat bike is a good example of what I was trying to say.  I suspect
this may be a difference of _optimized_ for the fringe versus just
_passable_ at the fringe.  Expanding into the passable scope may not
sacrifice the other end of the range as much as the optimized scope.  But,
the more you move from passable to optimized at one end, the greater the
sacrifice at the other.

Tim

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 1:59 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

>
>
> On 03/22/2018 04:13 PM, Grant Petersen wrote:
>
> The point which I flopped in making is that a bike that "performs" at the
> fringes can certainly handle the middle, but not necessarily the other way
> around. I should have been more clear.
>
>
> [image: Image result for fat bike]
>
>
> Performs great at the fringe, but on the next 50 miler out in the
> country...?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Joe Bernard]

I think we might want to wait 'til someone's ridden the new Atlantis before we 
completely lose our freaking minds!!! I've owned: Romulus, Bleriot, AHH, 
Rambouillet, Saluki, Appaloosa, a couple Clems (one H, one L), and now a 
Cheviot. They all rode great, and even the very roadish Romulus handled China 
Camp's (Marin County, CA.) singletrack quite well. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Steve Palincsar]

On 03/22/2018 04:13 PM, Grant Petersen wrote:
The point which I flopped in making is that a bike that "performs" at 
the fringes can certainly handle the middle, but not necessarily the 
other way around. I should have been more clear.


Image result for fat bike


Performs great at the fringe, but on the next 50 miler out in the 
country...?




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