Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
To my untrained eye, this looks better than horizontal.Thanks Pete!-Jim W.-Original Message- From: P Merryman <merry...@gmail.com> Sent: May 8, 2010 6:57 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar Sorry I'm a month late posting, I'm "catching up" on a few months of non-lurking. Anyway, wanted to point out that, if I'm reading this right, Riv has done it before. From the web-archive.org of the Riv site: http://web.archive.org/web/20030804115752/www.rivendellbicycles.com/gallery/bigbike/bigbike.html -PeteOn Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 10:22 PM, cm chrispmur...@hotmail.com wrote: I wonder if there is a drawing, mock up, or other bike out there with this config? It sounds kinda weird to me, but seeing it might change everything. cheers! cm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Sorry I'm a month late posting, I'm catching up on a few months of non-lurking. Anyway, wanted to point out that, if I'm reading this right, Riv has done it before. From the web-archive.org of the Riv site: http://web.archive.org/web/20030804115752/www.rivendellbicycles.com/gallery/bigbike/bigbike.html -Pete On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 10:22 PM, cm chrispmur...@hotmail.com wrote: I wonder if there is a drawing, mock up, or other bike out there with this config? It sounds kinda weird to me, but seeing it might change everything. cheers! cm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Thanks for the link. Great looking bike From: P Merryman merry...@gmail.com To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, May 8, 2010 5:57:40 PM Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar Sorry I'm a month late posting, I'm catching up on a few months of non-lurking. Anyway, wanted to point out that, if I'm reading this right, Riv has done it before. From the web-archive.org of the Riv site: http://web.archive.org/web/20030804115752/www.rivendellbicycles.com/gallery/bigbike/bigbike.html -Pete -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
Double top tubes seem fairly common here in Singapore. I've see quite a few. Many are old and made by Raleigh. They all seem to have seen years of use. People just ride them to get where they are going. Rivendell may have a more world view of bikes. I like the way they look and seem to take a beating. Here is a link to some of the more colorful ones. Note the diagonal second top tube: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wrebb/sets/72157623997048470/ Who knows, maybe there is a bright yellow Hillborne in my future. :) -Ray On May 3, 9:17 pm, rob markwardt robmar...@hotmail.com wrote: I once thought Rivendell bikes were ugly and look at me now... like we say in Venezuela... ¡Nunca digas que de esta agua no beberé! And I, like usual, find myself thinking the opposite...saying that without knowing spanish, but longing for the pre-double-toptube days. No disrespect intended, Rob Markwardt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
snip It seems to me that because of the long top tubes most of Rivendells frames are not designed for drop bars. With the long top tubes you need bars that come back towards you to provide a comfortable reach. Agreed. If you've got the long arms, then a slightly shorter stem (Nitto Dirt Drop) and drop bars could work. I've got the short arms, so I've completely given up on drop bars. In fact, I've given up on Moustache bars, as well. My latest bike has an upside down and cut Albatross, setup in Moustache fashion. This gave me Moustache functionality and effectively reduced the reach by 4cm which allowed me to run a frame with a slightly longer top tube. That's the best I could do. My Hunqapillar, should I take the plunge, would require a Bull Moose or a right-side up Albatross. Drops are out of the question. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
Riv frames have in the past typically had shorter TT's. I've read many complaints about this. It's good they've made some longer ones now. They have sufficient variety in frames to fit about anyone. Longer TT's are perfect for using Albatross bars and such. To me a bike is better balanced with a longer TT than the traditional short ones on most stock frames, especially vintage ones who always has too short of TT's for my liking. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
I'd sure like to see a photo of those reversed Alba bars. Do you have any? Or a link? Are you using thumb shifters? From: Ginz theg...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 7:17:34 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed snip It seems to me that because of the long top tubes most of Rivendells frames are not designed for drop bars. With the long top tubes you need bars that come back towards you to provide a comfortable reach. Agreed. If you've got the long arms, then a slightly shorter stem (Nitto Dirt Drop) and drop bars could work. I've got the short arms, so I've completely given up on drop bars. In fact, I've given up on Moustache bars, as well. My latest bike has an upside down and cut Albatross, setup in Moustache fashion. This gave me Moustache functionality and effectively reduced the reach by 4cm which allowed me to run a frame with a slightly longer top tube. That's the best I could do. My Hunqapillar, should I take the plunge, would require a Bull Moose or a right-side up Albatross. Drops are out of the question. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
It would likely look really similar to a 1993 XO-3 Like this: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1993/pages/33.htm or this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=230468515481ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT On May 5, 8:48 am, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I'd sure like to see a photo of those reversed Alba bars. Do you have any? Or a link? Are you using thumb shifters? From: Ginz theg...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 7:17:34 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed snip It seems to me that because of the long top tubes most of Rivendells frames are not designed for drop bars. With the long top tubes you need bars that come back towards you to provide a comfortable reach. Agreed. If you've got the long arms, then a slightly shorter stem (Nitto Dirt Drop) and drop bars could work. I've got the short arms, so I've completely given up on drop bars. In fact, I've given up on Moustache bars, as well. My latest bike has an upside down and cut Albatross, setup in Moustache fashion. This gave me Moustache functionality and effectively reduced the reach by 4cm which allowed me to run a frame with a slightly longer top tube. That's the best I could do. My Hunqapillar, should I take the plunge, would require a Bull Moose or a right-side up Albatross. Drops are out of the question. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
Well, no, not exactly. Both of those XOs are rigged with moustache bars. I definitely am not a fan of MBs. I have seen Alba bars reversed, but thought the poster had a few pix handy. Also curious about the thumb shifters, twisters, or BE. I guess DT is possible as well. Thank you, William, for taking the time to look those pix up for me. Those are nice looking bikes. From: William tapebu...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 4:53:14 PM Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed It would likely look really similar to a 1993 XO-3 Like this: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1993/pages/33.htm or this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=230468515481ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT On May 5, 8:48 am, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I'd sure like to see a photo of those reversed Alba bars. Do you have any? Or a link? Are you using thumb shifters? From: Ginz theg...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 7:17:34 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed snip It seems to me that because of the long top tubes most of Rivendells frames are not designed for drop bars. With the long top tubes you need bars that come back towards you to provide a comfortable reach. Agreed. If you've got the long arms, then a slightly shorter stem (Nitto Dirt Drop) and drop bars could work. I've got the short arms, so I've completely given up on drop bars. In fact, I've given up on Moustache bars, as well. My latest bike has an upside down and cut Albatross, setup in Moustache fashion. This gave me Moustache functionality and effectively reduced the reach by 4cm which allowed me to run a frame with a slightly longer top tube. That's the best I could do. My Hunqapillar, should I take the plunge, would require a Bull Moose or a right-side up Albatross. Drops are out of the question. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
Not a problem. I'm a fan of the 1993 XO-3. I sold a lot of them when they were new. Those handlebars are not Moustache bars. More specifically, they are not Nitto RM-016 bars. They were called 'Priest' bars by B-stone and had a bend that was much closer to the Albatross than the Moustache. The XO-1 had Moustache (RM-016) bars. I don't know if the bends are identical (Priest and Alba), but they are definitely really close. On May 5, 6:18 pm, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Well, no, not exactly. Both of those XOs are rigged with moustache bars. I definitely am not a fan of MBs. I have seen Alba bars reversed, but thought the poster had a few pix handy. Also curious about the thumb shifters, twisters, or BE. I guess DT is possible as well. Thank you, William, for taking the time to look those pix up for me. Those are nice looking bikes. From: William tapebu...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 4:53:14 PM Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed It would likely look really similar to a 1993 XO-3 Like this: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1993/pages/33.htm or this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=230468515481ssPag... On May 5, 8:48 am, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I'd sure like to see a photo of those reversed Alba bars. Do you have any? Or a link? Are you using thumb shifters? From: Ginz theg...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 7:17:34 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed snip It seems to me that because of the long top tubes most of Rivendells frames are not designed for drop bars. With the long top tubes you need bars that come back towards you to provide a comfortable reach. Agreed. If you've got the long arms, then a slightly shorter stem (Nitto Dirt Drop) and drop bars could work. I've got the short arms, so I've completely given up on drop bars. In fact, I've given up on Moustache bars, as well. My latest bike has an upside down and cut Albatross, setup in Moustache fashion. This gave me Moustache functionality and effectively reduced the reach by 4cm which allowed me to run a frame with a slightly longer top tube. That's the best I could do. My Hunqapillar, should I take the plunge, would require a Bull Moose or a right-side up Albatross. Drops are out of the question. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
It looks rather odd like that .. like the diagonal tube should be extended. Loss of a prime bottle spot? Curious. I'm with Rene .. I'm really really glad to have a Bombadil :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
While maybe less aesthetically pleasing than the camper, this design is probably lighter and just as stout and stable. Plus, most of the time, you will be looking at the bike from atop it! Oliver On May 4, 6:23 am, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: That's the concept that I liked; the long diagonal. René On 5/3/10, CycloFiend cyclofi...@earthlink.net wrote: on 5/3/10 5:47 PM, James Valiensi at valie...@mac.com wrote: Looks like a Joe Breeze mountain bike from 1978 or so. Similar, but rather different - http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclofiend/195767142/ - J -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Gallery updates now appear here -http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com Steel's what you want for a messenger bike. Weight. Big basket up front. Not cardboard with some crazy aramid shit wrapped around it, weighs about as much as a sandwich. -- William Gibson, Virtual Light -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Sent from my mobile device -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
That design sure looks like this photoshop proto by Marty: http://www.flickr.com/photos/32306...@n07/4492630025/in/pool-1358...@n23 My PBH is on the cusp of 54/58. I test rode both last Saturday. Both are great handling, stable bikes but I prefer the 58. The 54 feels just a little cramped for my taste. jim m wc ca On May 3, 3:54 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: The Hunqapage on the Rivsite now has a photo of the design sheet for the Diagonal 2TT. http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/hunqapillar/50-713 In related news, Grant's post about the ropeswing says that the 54 is now built and being ridden. http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/236 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
Will the 54 still be a single top tube or will it have the diagonal tube also? If what Keven says is true I should get the 54 also ( 86 PBH but long torso/arms). Any news on the delivery date of the final production versions? ~Mike~ On May 4, 11:04 am, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Jim I just did the same thing this morning (rode the 54 and 58), and had the same reaction (I liked the cockpit size of the 58 but was freaked at the standover). My PBH is 87. Keven pointed out to me that the final 58 will be 2 full centimeters longer in the top tube, and the 54 will be 1.5cm longer than the proto 54. That has me leaning towards the 54. Bill On May 4, 9:58 am, Jim M. mather...@gmail.com wrote: That design sure looks like this photoshop proto by Marty:http://www.flickr.com/photos/32306...@n07/4492630025/in/pool-1358...@n23 My PBH is on the cusp of 54/58. I test rode both last Saturday. Both are great handling, stable bikes but I prefer the 58. The 54 feels just a little cramped for my taste. jim m wc ca On May 3, 3:54 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: The Hunqapage on the Rivsite now has a photo of the design sheet for the Diagonal 2TT. http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/hunqapillar/50-713 In related news, Grant's post about the ropeswing says that the 54 is now built and being ridden. http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/236 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
Michael The 54 will absolutely be a single top tube. When Keven said that the 54 will be 1.5 cm longer, it did not occur to me to ask if the first prototypes were built 1.5cm too short or if they changed the number from the PDF file on the Riv site to 1.5cm longer. With my PBH of 87, standing over the 58 hunqa prototype with Big Apple 700x50 (not 60s), I could stand flat footed, and could lift the front wheel only about 1 cm. Keven said that if the final prototypes (later this month) are perfecto, then late July is still the date for finals. Bill On May 4, 11:14 am, Michael_S mikeybi...@rocketmail.com wrote: Will the 54 still be a single top tube or will it have the diagonal tube also? If what Keven says is true I should get the 54 also ( 86 PBH but long torso/arms). Any news on the delivery date of the final production versions? ~Mike~ On May 4, 11:04 am, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Jim I just did the same thing this morning (rode the 54 and 58), and had the same reaction (I liked the cockpit size of the 58 but was freaked at the standover). My PBH is 87. Keven pointed out to me that the final 58 will be 2 full centimeters longer in the top tube, and the 54 will be 1.5cm longer than the proto 54. That has me leaning towards the 54. Bill On May 4, 9:58 am, Jim M. mather...@gmail.com wrote: That design sure looks like this photoshop proto by Marty:http://www.flickr.com/photos/32306...@n07/4492630025/in/pool-1358...@n23 My PBH is on the cusp of 54/58. I test rode both last Saturday. Both are great handling, stable bikes but I prefer the 58. The 54 feels just a little cramped for my taste. jim m wc ca On May 3, 3:54 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: The Hunqapage on the Rivsite now has a photo of the design sheet for the Diagonal 2TT. http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/hunqapillar/50-713 In related news, Grant's post about the ropeswing says that the 54 is now built and being ridden. http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/236 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.-Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
Mike I'm a terrible double-replyer, so I'm sorry about that. I just called Keven and he said that the 54 and 58 prototypes were built correctly to the numbers that are currently on the Riv-site. The finals will be longer, so the numbers are changing. The Hunqa numbers claim that the 54 has a 58.4cm effective top tube length, and the final will be really close to 60cm. The 58 claims to have a 60cm effective top tube length and the final will be a 62 or so. Bill On May 4, 11:14 am, Michael_S mikeybi...@rocketmail.com wrote: Will the 54 still be a single top tube or will it have the diagonal tube also? If what Keven says is true I should get the 54 also ( 86 PBH but long torso/arms). Any news on the delivery date of the final production versions? ~Mike~ On May 4, 11:04 am, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Jim I just did the same thing this morning (rode the 54 and 58), and had the same reaction (I liked the cockpit size of the 58 but was freaked at the standover). My PBH is 87. Keven pointed out to me that the final 58 will be 2 full centimeters longer in the top tube, and the 54 will be 1.5cm longer than the proto 54. That has me leaning towards the 54. Bill On May 4, 9:58 am, Jim M. mather...@gmail.com wrote: That design sure looks like this photoshop proto by Marty:http://www.flickr.com/photos/32306...@n07/4492630025/in/pool-1358...@n23 My PBH is on the cusp of 54/58. I test rode both last Saturday. Both are great handling, stable bikes but I prefer the 58. The 54 feels just a little cramped for my taste. jim m wc ca On May 3, 3:54 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: The Hunqapage on the Rivsite now has a photo of the design sheet for the Diagonal 2TT. http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/hunqapillar/50-713 In related news, Grant's post about the ropeswing says that the 54 is now built and being ridden. http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/236 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.-Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
That is roughly how my 60 Bombadil fits me, although I believe that with the Marathon Supreme 700x50 I actually get about 1 inch. (I ride a 61 AHH). Still, when I straddle the bike I can feel the top tube right in there. I get the extra lift by pushing hard against my bones just like Grant states you should. I believe my PBH is 89 or 90. I did think the frame was too large for me initially, even though Keven had sized me personally. I went back to RBW with the idea that they had made a mistake, rode the 56 Bombadil and felt the cockpit too constrained. I took my 60 back home, ended up getting the most comfortable fit with the shorter Drop Stem and 48 Noodle bars and love it. I do wish the top tube was a little lower, for extra clearing but so far it hasn't been an issue other than snagging the rear brake cable when I straddle the bike. I will go mountain biking again this weekend on my first S24O. I've gotten used to feeling the top tube when riding it on the road and am going to try a pair of Big Apples 700x60 to see how they compare to the Supremes. I love riding the bike with the Marathon Extreme 700x40 and for real mountain biking, I have a set of Specialized El Capitan 29x2.2 front and 2.0 rear. It will be interesting to compare mountain biking handling between the Specialized and the Extremes. Perhaps the 58 Hunqa would give me a bit of extra clearance, but so far it's not enough reason to sell the Bombadil frame and get the Hunqa frame. You never know, of course, but I really like how the bike fits me and how I feel when riding it (other than my left foot pain that has nothing to do with the bike). I also like the Bombadil better with less stem / seat post showing... but that's completely subjective. :-) René On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:29 AM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: With my PBH of 87, standing over the 58 hunqa prototype with Big Apple 700x50 (not 60s), I could stand flat footed, and could lift the front wheel only about 1 cm. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
That would be too long for me, as the Bombadil 60 has a top tube of 61 and I wouldn't be able to use a shorter frame. The 54 would end up being quite low, forcing a lot of seat post/stem to show to reach the right height and bar/saddle height ratio... I guess that will still keep my best fitted on my Bombadil... which is always good to reconfirm. René On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:47 AM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: The 58 claims to have a 60cm effective top tube length and the final will be a 62 or so. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
Rene Your 60cm Bombadil has an effective top tube length of 63cm. So the 58cm Hunqapillar will be 1cm shorter in reach than your Bombadil, and the 58cm Hunqapillar will have 2cm more standover clearance than your Bombadil. Seems like the 58 Hunqa fits nicely between a 56 Bomba and a 60 Bomba. Maybe you need another bike, and should put the Noodles on the Hunqapillar and the Bullmoose bars on your Bombadil. That would be sweet! On May 4, 1:25 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: That would be too long for me, as the Bombadil 60 has a top tube of 61 and I wouldn't be able to use a shorter frame. The 54 would end up being quite low, forcing a lot of seat post/stem to show to reach the right height and bar/saddle height ratio... I guess that will still keep my best fitted on my Bombadil... which is always good to reconfirm. René On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:47 AM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: The 58 claims to have a 60cm effective top tube length and the final will be a 62 or so. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
Rene: William is right- the *actual* TT length on the 60cm B'dil is 61cm, but the theoretical horizontal measurement is 63cm On May 4, 5:21 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: I thought I read in the Bomba's geometry chart that the horizontal top tube was 61cm. I'll recheck it again when I get home. I'm on a plane waiting to depart from Dulles into SFO. Hm! René On 5/4/10, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Rene Your 60cm Bombadil has an effective top tube length of 63cm. So the 58cm Hunqapillar will be 1cm shorter in reach than your Bombadil, and the 58cm Hunqapillar will have 2cm more standover clearance than your Bombadil. Seems like the 58 Hunqa fits nicely between a 56 Bomba and a 60 Bomba. Maybe you need another bike, and should put the Noodles on the Hunqapillar and the Bullmoose bars on your Bombadil. That would be sweet! On May 4, 1:25 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: That would be too long for me, as the Bombadil 60 has a top tube of 61 and I wouldn't be able to use a shorter frame. The 54 would end up being quite low, forcing a lot of seat post/stem to show to reach the right height and bar/saddle height ratio... I guess that will still keep my best fitted on my Bombadil... which is always good to reconfirm. René On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:47 AM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: The 58 claims to have a 60cm effective top tube length and the final will be a 62 or so. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Sent from my mobile device -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
On May 4, 12:47 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Mike I'm a terrible double-replyer, so I'm sorry about that. I just called Keven and he said that the 54 and 58 prototypes were built correctly to the numbers that are currently on the Riv-site. The finals will be longer, so the numbers are changing. The Hunqa numbers claim that the 54 has a 58.4cm effective top tube length, and the final will be really close to 60cm. The 58 claims to have a 60cm effective top tube length and the final will be a 62 or so. On May 4, 12:47 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Mike I'm a terrible double-replyer, so I'm sorry about that. I just called Keven and he said that the 54 and 58 prototypes were built correctly to the numbers that are currently on the Riv-site. The finals will be longer, so the numbers are changing. The Hunqa numbers claim that the 54 has a 58.4cm effective top tube length, and the final will be really close to 60cm. The 58 claims to have a 60cm effective top tube length and the final will be a 62 or so. Ugh. What is it with Rivendell's long top tubes? I thought the whole idea was to get people to ride bigger frames? On the bigger frames, the top tubes are so long it forces people to buy a smaller frame with a shorter, better fitting top tube and then jack up the stem to get the bars up there. For instance, look at the 67 AHH. The effective seat tube is about 66.3 center to center and the effective top tube is 65. My preference for that frame would be a 61 cm top tube so that I could employ a proportionally appropriate stem of 12 or 13 cm. It seems to me that because of the long top tubes most of Rivendells frames are not designed for drop bars. With the long top tubes you need bars that come back towards you to provide a comfortable reach. I've read the article on how a shallower seat angle effectively shortens the top tube--but that is only 1 cm per degree. So if you currently ride a bike with a 73 seat tube angle, the Hilsen's 72 seat tube angle will allow you to fit a top tube that is 1 cm longer. But on the other end, a Nitto Noodle handlebar has 9.5 cm of reach which is 1 cm longer than most road bars sold today. The net result is that a shallower seat tube angle effectively reduces the top tube length by 1cm, but the Noodle handlebar is 1 cm longer, so that is a scratch. It would be nice if Rivendell made one model where the top tubes were not so long in the large sizes. Taller riders could then choose bigger frames with less stem sticking out of the frame and use a 12 or 13 cm stem with Nitto Noodle's to get the proper reach to the bars. The geometry of the original Hunqapillar seemed to be moving a bit in that direction. On the other hand, some days I hold up my hand and spread my thumb and forefinger apart 4 centimeters, and I look at how small a distance that is, and I wonder if it is even worth thinking about. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
On May 4, 10:40 am, CycloFiend cyclofi...@earthlink.net wrote: on 5/4/10 6:23 AM, Rene Sterental at orthie...@gmail.com wrote: That's the concept that I liked; the long diagonal. Breezers (original like that one) had a long diagonal (i.e. headtube to rear dropout), but they were separate parrallel tubes. A big issue with the early mtb's was lateral flex - they were lng wheelbase bicycles with slack geometry and wide Albatross style bars. The method of use was downhill at high speeds with a ton of side drift. You were heavily countersteering, too and the bikes felt like they had a hinge in the middle, sometimes. In that picture, it looks like the diagonal may not be attached to the down tube? What was the thinking behind that? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
I'm pretty stoked about the longer tt. The 58 was the right length, but not enough standover. Plus I didn't want the double tt (I like flexy bikes!). The 54 had the right standover, but wasn't long enough. Voila, now a 54 is back in play for me! On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 3:27 PM, happyriding happyrid...@yahoo.com wrote: On May 4, 12:47 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Mike I'm a terrible double-replyer, so I'm sorry about that. I just called Keven and he said that the 54 and 58 prototypes were built correctly to the numbers that are currently on the Riv-site. The finals will be longer, so the numbers are changing. The Hunqa numbers claim that the 54 has a 58.4cm effective top tube length, and the final will be really close to 60cm. The 58 claims to have a 60cm effective top tube length and the final will be a 62 or so. On May 4, 12:47 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Mike I'm a terrible double-replyer, so I'm sorry about that. I just called Keven and he said that the 54 and 58 prototypes were built correctly to the numbers that are currently on the Riv-site. The finals will be longer, so the numbers are changing. The Hunqa numbers claim that the 54 has a 58.4cm effective top tube length, and the final will be really close to 60cm. The 58 claims to have a 60cm effective top tube length and the final will be a 62 or so. Ugh. What is it with Rivendell's long top tubes? I thought the whole idea was to get people to ride bigger frames? On the bigger frames, the top tubes are so long it forces people to buy a smaller frame with a shorter, better fitting top tube and then jack up the stem to get the bars up there. For instance, look at the 67 AHH. The effective seat tube is about 66.3 center to center and the effective top tube is 65. My preference for that frame would be a 61 cm top tube so that I could employ a proportionally appropriate stem of 12 or 13 cm. It seems to me that because of the long top tubes most of Rivendells frames are not designed for drop bars. With the long top tubes you need bars that come back towards you to provide a comfortable reach. I've read the article on how a shallower seat angle effectively shortens the top tube--but that is only 1 cm per degree. So if you currently ride a bike with a 73 seat tube angle, the Hilsen's 72 seat tube angle will allow you to fit a top tube that is 1 cm longer. But on the other end, a Nitto Noodle handlebar has 9.5 cm of reach which is 1 cm longer than most road bars sold today. The net result is that a shallower seat tube angle effectively reduces the top tube length by 1cm, but the Noodle handlebar is 1 cm longer, so that is a scratch. It would be nice if Rivendell made one model where the top tubes were not so long in the large sizes. Taller riders could then choose bigger frames with less stem sticking out of the frame and use a 12 or 13 cm stem with Nitto Noodle's to get the proper reach to the bars. The geometry of the original Hunqapillar seemed to be moving a bit in that direction. On the other hand, some days I hold up my hand and spread my thumb and forefinger apart 4 centimeters, and I look at how small a distance that is, and I wonder if it is even worth thinking about. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym. ~Bill Nye, scientist guy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
Not awful but I am glad I ride a smaller frame. On May 3, 6:54 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: The Hunqapage on the Rivsite now has a photo of the design sheet for the Diagonal 2TT. http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/hunqapillar/50-713 In related news, Grant's post about the ropeswing says that the 54 is now built and being ridden. http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/236 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
I'll want to see the finished product but I like it better. Also he mentioned the next batch of Sam's... side pulls in big sizes and Canti equipped Waterford built frames too. ~Mike~ On May 3, 5:47 pm, James Valiensi valie...@mac.com wrote: Hey, Looks like a Joe Breeze mountain bike from 1978 or so. On May 3, 2010, at 3:54 PM, William wrote: The Hunqapage on the Rivsite now has a photo of the design sheet for the Diagonal 2TT. http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/hunqapillar/50-713 In related news, Grant's post about the ropeswing says that the 54 is now built and being ridden. http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/236 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. James Valiensi, PE Northridge, CA H818.775.1847 M.818.585.1796 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar blueprints revealed
I once thought Rivendell bikes were ugly and look at me now... like we say in Venezuela... ¡Nunca digas que de esta agua no beberé! And I, like usual, find myself thinking the opposite...saying that without knowing spanish, but longing for the pre-double-toptube days. No disrespect intended, Rob Markwardt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
So does the Hunqapillar qualify as a Monstercross bike? I wasn't familiar with the term until recently. Why does everybody try to categorize everything? On Apr 8, 7:22 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: I'm wondering out loud ... if extra diagonal type tubed frames were so popular . why are they not sold in mass? I see a warmish response here in this forum but you know how some things go . people say they love the design . but when it comes time to actually buy and own one . personal reality checks in. . . . and they may not want it. It's like seeing a fancy prototype at the bike show it looks great you drool over it ... but you just don't get one . for whatever reason. usually it's too far out of the norm. What would so and so think? ... etc. I missed this from Garth earlier. Couldn't one say the same about any Riv design, or, for that matter, lugged steel bike? If lugged steel bikes are sold in mass, I have yet to see them. Bikes with extra tubes are more expensive to make, and thus buy. They are also heavier than most bikes. Many people never ride with loads and to places such a bike would be needed. For those few who do, having some attractive priced options from Riv make sense. On Apr 7, 6:40 pm, James Dinneen jfxdinn...@yahoo.com wrote: Good point about the water bottles. In particular, a touring bike should have multiple, easily available water bottles. Jim D. Massachusetts --- On Tue, 4/6/10, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: From: Garth garth...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:05 AM If they're going diagonal . what do they do about water bottles ? Design is one thing, but what about practicality? While I agree with GP that triangles look better, and bicycles are all about triangles .. more of them doesn't necessarily mean better. Double top tubes parallel looks masculine.. works great for carrying and stand mounting... a diagonal or mixte tube doesn't. I'm wondering out loud ... if extra diagonal type tubed frames were so popular . why are they not sold in mass? I see a warmish response here in this forum but you know how some things go . people say they love the design . but when it comes time to actually buy and own one . personal reality checks in. . . . and they may not want it. It's like seeing a fancy prototype at the bike show it looks great you drool over it ... but you just don't get one . for whatever reason. usually it's too far out of the norm. What would so and so think? ... etc. The mind is an never ending ride to nowhere. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Never heard that term before. Does Monster Cross refer to a cross county race in real rugged conditions? Or does it mean real long self-supported tours? I see the Hunq as possibly a very good candidate for the latter. I think racers would be concerned about the weight - aren't racers always obsessing about weight - of the Hunq. As for water bottle placement - the old French diagonal campers found room for multiple bottle cages. Not sure why a Hunq with a diagnoal tube would not. Why does everybody try to categorize everything? I read somewhere (maybe the NYTimes?) that most humans will comfortably follow three sub-plots in a novel or movie. Any more, they lose place and ultimately interest. Probably the need to plug things into pigeon holes helps people keep to three sub-plots in life. On Apr 12, 4:56 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: So does the Hunqapillar qualify as a Monstercross bike? I wasn't familiar with the term until recently. Why does everybody try to categorize everything? On Apr 8, 7:22 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: I'm wondering out loud ... if extra diagonal type tubed frames were so popular . why are they not sold in mass? I see a warmish response here in this forum but you know how some things go . people say they love the design . but when it comes time to actually buy and own one . personal reality checks in. . . . and they may not want it. It's like seeing a fancy prototype at the bike show it looks great you drool over it ... but you just don't get one . for whatever reason. usually it's too far out of the norm. What would so and so think? ... etc. I missed this from Garth earlier. Couldn't one say the same about any Riv design, or, for that matter, lugged steel bike? If lugged steel bikes are sold in mass, I have yet to see them. Bikes with extra tubes are more expensive to make, and thus buy. They are also heavier than most bikes. Many people never ride with loads and to places such a bike would be needed. For those few who do, having some attractive priced options from Riv make sense. On Apr 7, 6:40 pm, James Dinneen jfxdinn...@yahoo.com wrote: Good point about the water bottles. In particular, a touring bike should have multiple, easily available water bottles. Jim D. Massachusetts --- On Tue, 4/6/10, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: From: Garth garth...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:05 AM If they're going diagonal . what do they do about water bottles ? Design is one thing, but what about practicality? While I agree with GP that triangles look better, and bicycles are all about triangles .. more of them doesn't necessarily mean better. Double top tubes parallel looks masculine.. works great for carrying and stand mounting... a diagonal or mixte tube doesn't. I'm wondering out loud ... if extra diagonal type tubed frames were so popular . why are they not sold in mass? I see a warmish response here in this forum but you know how some things go . people say they love the design . but when it comes time to actually buy and own one . personal reality checks in. . . . and they may not want it. It's like seeing a fancy prototype at the bike show it looks great you drool over it ... but you just don't get one . for whatever reason. usually it's too far out of the norm. What would so and so think? ... etc. The mind is an never ending ride to nowhere. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
As I understand it, a Monstercross is one of many alternative mountain bikes. The key defining characteristics of a monstercross appear to be: 700C wheels No suspension Drop or drop inspired handlebars 45c tires Clearly the Hunqapillar could easily have all the above, so I guess it could be a monstercross. Put racks and smooth fatties on it, then it's your new category, the monster tour. I guess there are Adventure Touring and Expedition categories, though. Seth was right, there really is nothing new. On Apr 12, 3:15 pm, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: Never heard that term before. Does Monster Cross refer to a cross county race in real rugged conditions? Or does it mean real long self-supported tours? I see the Hunq as possibly a very good candidate for the latter. I think racers would be concerned about the weight - aren't racers always obsessing about weight - of the Hunq. As for water bottle placement - the old French diagonal campers found room for multiple bottle cages. Not sure why a Hunq with a diagnoal tube would not. Why does everybody try to categorize everything? I read somewhere (maybe the NYTimes?) that most humans will comfortably follow three sub-plots in a novel or movie. Any more, they lose place and ultimately interest. Probably the need to plug things into pigeon holes helps people keep to three sub-plots in life. On Apr 12, 4:56 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: So does the Hunqapillar qualify as a Monstercross bike? I wasn't familiar with the term until recently. Why does everybody try to categorize everything? On Apr 8, 7:22 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: I'm wondering out loud ... if extra diagonal type tubed frames were so popular . why are they not sold in mass? I see a warmish response here in this forum but you know how some things go . people say they love the design . but when it comes time to actually buy and own one . personal reality checks in. . . . and they may not want it. It's like seeing a fancy prototype at the bike show it looks great you drool over it ... but you just don't get one . for whatever reason. usually it's too far out of the norm. What would so and so think? ... etc. I missed this from Garth earlier. Couldn't one say the same about any Riv design, or, for that matter, lugged steel bike? If lugged steel bikes are sold in mass, I have yet to see them. Bikes with extra tubes are more expensive to make, and thus buy. They are also heavier than most bikes. Many people never ride with loads and to places such a bike would be needed. For those few who do, having some attractive priced options from Riv make sense. On Apr 7, 6:40 pm, James Dinneen jfxdinn...@yahoo.com wrote: Good point about the water bottles. In particular, a touring bike should have multiple, easily available water bottles. Jim D. Massachusetts --- On Tue, 4/6/10, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: From: Garth garth...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:05 AM If they're going diagonal . what do they do about water bottles ? Design is one thing, but what about practicality? While I agree with GP that triangles look better, and bicycles are all about triangles .. more of them doesn't necessarily mean better. Double top tubes parallel looks masculine.. works great for carrying and stand mounting... a diagonal or mixte tube doesn't. I'm wondering out loud ... if extra diagonal type tubed frames were so popular . why are they not sold in mass? I see a warmish response here in this forum but you know how some things go . people say they love the design . but when it comes time to actually buy and own one . personal reality checks in. . . . and they may not want it. It's like seeing a fancy prototype at the bike show it looks great you drool over it ... but you just don't get one . for whatever reason. usually it's too far out of the norm. What would so and so think? ... etc. The mind is an never ending ride to nowhere. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.-Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
You can think of them as a cross bike with fatter tires. That about sums it up. http://www.flickr.com/groups/monster-cross-bikes/ I think a rigid 29er with drops counts, too. So yeah, about 2/5 of Rivendell's line up would make the cut. On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Jeremy Till jeremy.t...@gmail.com wrote: That's generally correct, but i think the people who were using it first (builders like Matt Chester and Wade at Vulture, among others) used it to denote a cyclocross bike that had clearance for the early 29er tires, around 2. So not only 700c and no suspension, but no suspension correction (i.e. no ability to run a suspension fork), thus distinguishing it from a rigid 29'er MTB. Of course, it's been interpreted many different ways, because in the end it's just a bike that can be ridden on road and off, which isn't really new. Rivendell is certainly not a stranger to this concept. Sure, you could probably call the Hunqapillar (or the Bombadil; or the Atlantis; or the All- Rounder; or the...) a monster cross bike, depending on how you built it up, but I don't think the term is saying anything new. On Apr 12, 3:26 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: As I understand it, a Monstercross is one of many alternative mountain bikes. The key defining characteristics of a monstercross appear to be: 700C wheels No suspension Drop or drop inspired handlebars 45c tires Clearly the Hunqapillar could easily have all the above, so I guess it could be a monstercross. Put racks and smooth fatties on it, then it's your new category, the monster tour. I guess there are Adventure Touring and Expedition categories, though. Seth was right, there really is nothing new. On Apr 12, 3:15 pm, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: Never heard that term before. Does Monster Cross refer to a cross county race in real rugged conditions? Or does it mean real long self-supported tours? I see the Hunq as possibly a very good candidate for the latter. I think racers would be concerned about the weight - aren't racers always obsessing about weight - of the Hunq. As for water bottle placement - the old French diagonal campers found room for multiple bottle cages. Not sure why a Hunq with a diagnoal tube would not. Why does everybody try to categorize everything? I read somewhere (maybe the NYTimes?) that most humans will comfortably follow three sub-plots in a novel or movie. Any more, they lose place and ultimately interest. Probably the need to plug things into pigeon holes helps people keep to three sub-plots in life. On Apr 12, 4:56 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: So does the Hunqapillar qualify as a Monstercross bike? I wasn't familiar with the term until recently. Why does everybody try to categorize everything? On Apr 8, 7:22 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: I'm wondering out loud ... if extra diagonal type tubed frames were so popular . why are they not sold in mass? I see a warmish response here in this forum but you know how some things go . people say they love the design . but when it comes time to actually buy and own one . personal reality checks in. . . . and they may not want it. It's like seeing a fancy prototype at the bike show it looks great you drool over it ... but you just don't get one . for whatever reason. usually it's too far out of the norm. What would so and so think? ... etc. I missed this from Garth earlier. Couldn't one say the same about any Riv design, or, for that matter, lugged steel bike? If lugged steel bikes are sold in mass, I have yet to see them. Bikes with extra tubes are more expensive to make, and thus buy. They are also heavier than most bikes. Many people never ride with loads and to places such a bike would be needed. For those few who do, having some attractive priced options from Riv make sense. On Apr 7, 6:40 pm, James Dinneen jfxdinn...@yahoo.com wrote: Good point about the water bottles. In particular, a touring bike should have multiple, easily available water bottles. Jim D. Massachusetts --- On Tue, 4/6/10, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: From: Garth garth...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:05 AM If they're going diagonal . what do they do about water bottles ? Design is one thing, but what about practicality? While I agree with GP that triangles look better, and bicycles are all about triangles .. more of them doesn't necessarily mean better. Double top tubes parallel looks masculine.. works great for carrying and stand mounting
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Seth was right, there really is nothing new. Can say that again: http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co=9768weid=11890weiid=4178986mindate=20100319maxdate=20110319lso=lotnumascpagenum=1lang=En On Apr 12, 5:26 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: As I understand it, a Monstercross is one of many alternative mountain bikes. The key defining characteristics of a monstercross appear to be: 700C wheels No suspension Drop or drop inspired handlebars 45c tires Clearly the Hunqapillar could easily have all the above, so I guess it could be a monstercross. Put racks and smooth fatties on it, then it's your new category, the monster tour. I guess there are Adventure Touring and Expedition categories, though. Seth was right, there really is nothing new. On Apr 12, 3:15 pm, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: Never heard that term before. Does Monster Cross refer to a cross county race in real rugged conditions? Or does it mean real long self-supported tours? I see the Hunq as possibly a very good candidate for the latter. I think racers would be concerned about the weight - aren't racers always obsessing about weight - of the Hunq. As for water bottle placement - the old French diagonal campers found room for multiple bottle cages. Not sure why a Hunq with a diagnoal tube would not. Why does everybody try to categorize everything? I read somewhere (maybe the NYTimes?) that most humans will comfortably follow three sub-plots in a novel or movie. Any more, they lose place and ultimately interest. Probably the need to plug things into pigeon holes helps people keep to three sub-plots in life. On Apr 12, 4:56 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: So does the Hunqapillar qualify as a Monstercross bike? I wasn't familiar with the term until recently. Why does everybody try to categorize everything? On Apr 8, 7:22 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: I'm wondering out loud ... if extra diagonal type tubed frames were so popular . why are they not sold in mass? I see a warmish response here in this forum but you know how some things go . people say they love the design . but when it comes time to actually buy and own one . personal reality checks in. . . . and they may not want it. It's like seeing a fancy prototype at the bike show it looks great you drool over it ... but you just don't get one . for whatever reason. usually it's too far out of the norm. What would so and so think? ... etc. I missed this from Garth earlier. Couldn't one say the same about any Riv design, or, for that matter, lugged steel bike? If lugged steel bikes are sold in mass, I have yet to see them. Bikes with extra tubes are more expensive to make, and thus buy. They are also heavier than most bikes. Many people never ride with loads and to places such a bike would be needed. For those few who do, having some attractive priced options from Riv make sense. On Apr 7, 6:40 pm, James Dinneen jfxdinn...@yahoo.com wrote: Good point about the water bottles. In particular, a touring bike should have multiple, easily available water bottles. Jim D. Massachusetts --- On Tue, 4/6/10, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: From: Garth garth...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:05 AM If they're going diagonal . what do they do about water bottles ? Design is one thing, but what about practicality? While I agree with GP that triangles look better, and bicycles are all about triangles .. more of them doesn't necessarily mean better. Double top tubes parallel looks masculine.. works great for carrying and stand mounting... a diagonal or mixte tube doesn't. I'm wondering out loud ... if extra diagonal type tubed frames were so popular . why are they not sold in mass? I see a warmish response here in this forum but you know how some things go . people say they love the design . but when it comes time to actually buy and own one . personal reality checks in. . . . and they may not want it. It's like seeing a fancy prototype at the bike show it looks great you drool over it ... but you just don't get one . for whatever reason. usually it's too far out of the norm. What would so and so think? ... etc. The mind is an never ending ride to nowhere. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
That's generally correct, but i think the people who were using it first (builders like Matt Chester and Wade at Vulture, among others) Surprised to read Chester is one of the progenitors. The few things I have read by him come across almost Zen like. Never would have thought he was given to hyperbole. On Apr 12, 6:54 pm, Jeremy Till jeremy.t...@gmail.com wrote: That's generally correct, but i think the people who were using it first (builders like Matt Chester and Wade at Vulture, among others) used it to denote a cyclocross bike that had clearance for the early 29er tires, around 2. So not only 700c and no suspension, but no suspension correction (i.e. no ability to run a suspension fork), thus distinguishing it from a rigid 29'er MTB. Of course, it's been interpreted many different ways, because in the end it's just a bike that can be ridden on road and off, which isn't really new. Rivendell is certainly not a stranger to this concept. Sure, you could probably call the Hunqapillar (or the Bombadil; or the Atlantis; or the All- Rounder; or the...) a monster cross bike, depending on how you built it up, but I don't think the term is saying anything new. On Apr 12, 3:26 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: As I understand it, a Monstercross is one of many alternative mountain bikes. The key defining characteristics of a monstercross appear to be: 700C wheels No suspension Drop or drop inspired handlebars 45c tires Clearly the Hunqapillar could easily have all the above, so I guess it could be a monstercross. Put racks and smooth fatties on it, then it's your new category, the monster tour. I guess there are Adventure Touring and Expedition categories, though. Seth was right, there really is nothing new. On Apr 12, 3:15 pm, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: Never heard that term before. Does Monster Cross refer to a cross county race in real rugged conditions? Or does it mean real long self-supported tours? I see the Hunq as possibly a very good candidate for the latter. I think racers would be concerned about the weight - aren't racers always obsessing about weight - of the Hunq. As for water bottle placement - the old French diagonal campers found room for multiple bottle cages. Not sure why a Hunq with a diagnoal tube would not. Why does everybody try to categorize everything? I read somewhere (maybe the NYTimes?) that most humans will comfortably follow three sub-plots in a novel or movie. Any more, they lose place and ultimately interest. Probably the need to plug things into pigeon holes helps people keep to three sub-plots in life. On Apr 12, 4:56 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: So does the Hunqapillar qualify as a Monstercross bike? I wasn't familiar with the term until recently. Why does everybody try to categorize everything? On Apr 8, 7:22 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: I'm wondering out loud ... if extra diagonal type tubed frames were so popular . why are they not sold in mass? I see a warmish response here in this forum but you know how some things go . people say they love the design . but when it comes time to actually buy and own one . personal reality checks in. . . . and they may not want it. It's like seeing a fancy prototype at the bike show it looks great you drool over it ... but you just don't get one . for whatever reason. usually it's too far out of the norm. What would so and so think? ... etc. I missed this from Garth earlier. Couldn't one say the same about any Riv design, or, for that matter, lugged steel bike? If lugged steel bikes are sold in mass, I have yet to see them. Bikes with extra tubes are more expensive to make, and thus buy. They are also heavier than most bikes. Many people never ride with loads and to places such a bike would be needed. For those few who do, having some attractive priced options from Riv make sense. On Apr 7, 6:40 pm, James Dinneen jfxdinn...@yahoo.com wrote: Good point about the water bottles. In particular, a touring bike should have multiple, easily available water bottles. Jim D. Massachusetts --- On Tue, 4/6/10, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: From: Garth garth...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:05 AM If they're going diagonal . what do they do about water bottles ? Design is one thing, but what about practicality? While I agree with GP that triangles look better, and bicycles are all about triangles .. more of them doesn't necessarily mean better. Double top tubes parallel looks
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
I'm with Thomas on this one. I own a 66 CM Atlantis and frankly find it to be a bit flexy when loaded. A double TT would help this I'm sure but I really like the idea of the mid-head to mid-seat tube bisecting that big empty space in the middle of the frame that often makes larger frames seem kind of gangly and awkward (I had enough of that in my teens don't need to be revisiting that period of my life). I think the diagonal 2TT does a more attractive job of this than the parallel 2tt. Unfortunately there is no way I can afford a Hunqapillar unless I sell my Atlantis... :-/ Anybody in the market for a 66CM Atlantis? Ethan On Apr 5, 12:12 pm, Allingham II, Thomas J thomas.alling...@skadden.com wrote: I don't post very often (Jim pointed out there's an endless footer attached to my messages when I do!), but let me offer the opinion of an Atlantis and Bombadil owner (which means that I ain't buying one no matter what the decision is): I think the diagonal 2tt (the Campeur approach) is extremely attractive, AND cool, AND very likely highly, highly functional. For those who agree with the first two judgments (and there will obviously be disagreements), it is a grand slam home run. -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of happyriding Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:04 PM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar Just an opinion, and not meant to insult anyone...but that is the ugliest bike I've ever seen. Sorry. Just one opinion. I suspect one reason Rivendell might like to do the diagonal 2tt is marketing: it helps differentiate the Hunaqpillar from the Bombadil-- even if it doesn't improve on it. But if Rivendell's goal is to actually sell some frames, then I think a diagonal 2tt will be a tough sell. But then I thought the Bomadil would be a tough sell, too. Also, unless Rivendell does some testing on the strength differences (do they even have the capability?), I think that using a diagonal 2tt would be a rash decision. As for people like EricP, this new diagonal 2tt idea seems contrary to everything Rivendell said during the pre-order period: 1) Trust us 2) July delivery a good possibility 3) Only minor tweaks I imagine Rivendell would be willing to return deposits--but that won't cure the disappointment. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof. Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request. == -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
I'm wondering out loud ... if extra diagonal type tubed frames were so popular . why are they not sold in mass? I see a warmish response here in this forum but you know how some things go . people say they love the design . but when it comes time to actually buy and own one . personal reality checks in. . . . and they may not want it. It's like seeing a fancy prototype at the bike show it looks great you drool over it ... but you just don't get one . for whatever reason. usually it's too far out of the norm. What would so and so think? ... etc. I missed this from Garth earlier. Couldn't one say the same about any Riv design, or, for that matter, lugged steel bike? If lugged steel bikes are sold in mass, I have yet to see them. Bikes with extra tubes are more expensive to make, and thus buy. They are also heavier than most bikes. Many people never ride with loads and to places such a bike would be needed. For those few who do, having some attractive priced options from Riv make sense. On Apr 7, 6:40 pm, James Dinneen jfxdinn...@yahoo.com wrote: Good point about the water bottles. In particular, a touring bike should have multiple, easily available water bottles. Jim D. Massachusetts --- On Tue, 4/6/10, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: From: Garth garth...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:05 AM If they're going diagonal . what do they do about water bottles ? Design is one thing, but what about practicality? While I agree with GP that triangles look better, and bicycles are all about triangles .. more of them doesn't necessarily mean better. Double top tubes parallel looks masculine.. works great for carrying and stand mounting... a diagonal or mixte tube doesn't. I'm wondering out loud ... if extra diagonal type tubed frames were so popular . why are they not sold in mass? I see a warmish response here in this forum but you know how some things go . people say they love the design . but when it comes time to actually buy and own one . personal reality checks in. . . . and they may not want it. It's like seeing a fancy prototype at the bike show it looks great you drool over it ... but you just don't get one . for whatever reason. usually it's too far out of the norm. What would so and so think? ... etc. The mind is an never ending ride to nowhere. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Good point about the water bottles. In particular, a touring bike should have multiple, easily available water bottles. Jim D. Massachusetts --- On Tue, 4/6/10, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: From: Garth garth...@gmail.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 9:05 AM If they're going diagonal . what do they do about water bottles ? Design is one thing, but what about practicality? While I agree with GP that triangles look better, and bicycles are all about triangles .. more of them doesn't necessarily mean better. Double top tubes parallel looks masculine.. works great for carrying and stand mounting... a diagonal or mixte tube doesn't. I'm wondering out loud ... if extra diagonal type tubed frames were so popular . why are they not sold in mass? I see a warmish response here in this forum but you know how some things go . people say they love the design . but when it comes time to actually buy and own one . personal reality checks in. . . . and they may not want it. It's like seeing a fancy prototype at the bike show it looks great you drool over it ... but you just don't get one . for whatever reason. usually it's too far out of the norm. What would so and so think? ... etc. The mind is an never ending ride to nowhere. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Wow! I like this idea, especially since it would be different from other Rivendells and other bikes. I hope they do it. I wonder if they'll do the same for the smaller sizes. On Apr 5, 9:01 am, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: No choice Grant and Keven make is going to make everybody happy. On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson d...@abelsons.net wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced. Jars my view too much. Also makes it look like it's a fatty bike. Fine. I'm fat. That's been established. Don't like the idea that I'm stuck riding a special bike. With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the original Breezer, that might work. That's a copy of the Schwinn Excelsior frame. Also, on a slightly different note. With the center tube, would make it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without interference. At least on a 58. And forget using a pump with a mount like the Topeak Morph series. Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo. Without the extra standover. Yes, I'm upset about this. Will probably end up losing a lot of money selling off my frame without building it up. Not something I can live happily with. Sigh. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN Eric, If Riv makes the change, I would just call them. I would not be suprised if they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the change to the top tube. Dan Abelson St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
It's your call, of course, and I don't personally hold it against you in any way. I'd point out though, that it seems a bit premature to me given that the final design decision has yet to be made, and no pictures of a prototype or first batch frameset has been published. (aside the photoshopped possibilities posted here) I trust Grant to make this bike look great no matter what design is finalized. I think you gave up on Grant/Riv a bit too soon... Steve -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of EricP Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 7:58 PM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar I'm owning up. It's me that has the refund. Mainly due to the thought that this is not the bike I pre-ordered. It may be good, but not what I was lead to expect from the inital .pdf. The new bike is also too jarring to me visually. Sorry to the list if I've made too much and lead to discord. Not my wish. Do not want to alienate others because of my own stupid ideas. Am not mad at Rivendell at all. The blame (if there is any) lies squarely with me in this case. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Apr 5, 6:00�pm, Esteban kemm...@gmail.com wrote: If I had a deposit, I'd keep it in there until one of these comes off the boat. �I'll bet they'll look pretty awesome. �Having ridden the prototypes, I'll say that they are SOLID. �This diagonal-fest will only make them more solid. �And more awesome. And these were never svelte bikes. �They are intended to be tanks, plowers, mowers...anything that adds strength (and innovation to boot) for this utility machine is welcomed... especially from Keven and Grant who do a lot of tinkering and riding and experimenting. Patience is a virtue. �I'm liking this bike more and more. Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Apr 5, 3:48�pm, Beth betha.lu...@gmail.com wrote: Man...it sure must be nice to have a PBH above 75. All the choices you 75+ PBHers have in bike frames makes me delirious and jealous and still not tall. Meanwhile, on back on the little ol' Betty (whichfunny isn't it..the Hunq is beginning to ever-so-slightly resemble...muhuhuwahahaha.) On Apr 5, 9:01�am, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: No choice Grant and Keven make is going to make everybody happy. On Apr 5, 8:27�am, Dan Abelson d...@abelsons.net wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced. �Jars my view too much. �Also makes it look like it's a fatty bike. �Fine. �I'm fat. �That's been established. �Don't like the idea that I'm stuck riding a special bike. With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the original Breezer, that might work. �That's a copy of the Schwinn Excelsior frame. Also, on a slightly different note. �With the center tube, would make it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without interference. �At least on a 58. �And forget using a pump with a mount like the Topeak Morph series. Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo. Without the extra standover. Yes, I'm upset about this. �Will probably end up losing a lot of money selling off my frame without building it up. �Not something I can live happily with. Sigh. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN Eric, If Riv makes the change, I would just call them. �I would not be suprised if they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the change to the top tube. Dan Abelson St. Paul, MN- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
If they're going diagonal . what do they do about water bottles ? Design is one thing, but what about practicality? While I agree with GP that triangles look better, and bicycles are all about triangles .. more of them doesn't necessarily mean better. Double top tubes parallel looks masculine.. works great for carrying and stand mounting... a diagonal or mixte tube doesn't. I'm wondering out loud ... if extra diagonal type tubed frames were so popular . why are they not sold in mass? I see a warmish response here in this forum but you know how some things go . people say they love the design . but when it comes time to actually buy and own one . personal reality checks in. . . . and they may not want it. It's like seeing a fancy prototype at the bike show it looks great you drool over it ... but you just don't get one . for whatever reason. usually it's too far out of the norm. What would so and so think? ... etc. The mind is an never ending ride to nowhere. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
As a Bombadil owner I didn't see the point of copying the design and making it $500 cheaper in Taiwan, even though I wish the Bombadil sizes were adjusted to match the new proposed Hunqa sizes. With you on that. The Hilborne does Hilsen things but its design is notably different. I had trouble getting the reason for the Hunqa before the design change. The diagonal second tube ala mixte I find very charming and visually appealing, as well as differentiating it from the Bombadil. Assuming equal functionality, one can now choose the design they like best and the price difference as well as origin of the frame can become secondary. Agree again. A proud and happy owner of a Bruce Gordon Rock n' Road, I need one of these bikes as much as I need a new hole in my head. Bringing back the diagonal second tube caught my attention. A lot of great old builders used the concept to good effect in days gone by. It would be fun to have a modern variation. On Apr 6, 3:34 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: I will apologize first, but do think this triangapillar is just taking the discussion to a silly level. As a Bombadil owner I didn't see the point of copying the design and making it $500 cheaper in Taiwan, even though I wish the Bombadil sizes were adjusted to match the new proposed Hunqa sizes. The diagonal second tube ala mixte I find very charming and visually appealing, as well as differentiating it from the Bombadil. Assuming equal functionality, one can now choose the design they like best and the price difference as well as origin of the frame can become secondary. That being said, I have no idea on the implications of these design variations on the quality of the ride. I do love riding my Bombadil; it's taught me to ride slow and enjoy the ride more. Before, it was always a frustrating experience of trying to ride hard to lower my average speed... I'm very curious to see where the Hunqa takes us... René On 4/6/10, happyriding happyrid...@yahoo.com wrote: On Apr 5, 6:16 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Eric I don't think anyone should or would fault you for not wanting to follow through on buying a bike that changed into something you don't like. Personally, the only thing you said that I thought was a bit unfair was the statement that the bike seemed like a 'half-hearted copy' of another bike. I don't know Grant or Keven well enough to really know how they might feel about reading that, but I can't imagine it being pleasant. I don't think Grant or Keven is a copycat, As far as I can tell, there is nothing about the shape of Rivendell's bicycles that hasn't been done before. There are very few creative new bike designs. But, I think I have discovered one. I call it the Trianga-pillar: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4495790421/ Patent pending. and I don't think they approach bike design half-heartedly, and I bet you don't either. It's fine being honest about subjective things like the design is 'jarring' or even ugly if that's the way you feel. On Apr 5, 4:57 pm, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: I'm owning up. It's me that has the refund. Mainly due to the thought that this is not the bike I pre-ordered. It may be good, but not what I was lead to expect from the inital .pdf. The new bike is also too jarring to me visually. Sorry to the list if I've made too much and lead to discord. Not my wish. Do not want to alienate others because of my own stupid ideas. Am not mad at Rivendell at all. The blame (if there is any) lies squarely with me in this case. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Apr 5, 6:00 pm, Esteban kemm...@gmail.com wrote: If I had a deposit, I'd keep it in there until one of these comes off the boat. I'll bet they'll look pretty awesome. Having ridden the prototypes, I'll say that they are SOLID. This diagonal-fest will only make them more solid. And more awesome. And these were never svelte bikes. They are intended to be tanks, plowers, mowers...anything that adds strength (and innovation to boot) for this utility machine is welcomed... especially from Keven and Grant who do a lot of tinkering and riding and experimenting. Patience is a virtue. I'm liking this bike more and more. Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Apr 5, 3:48 pm, Beth betha.lu...@gmail.com wrote: Man...it sure must be nice to have a PBH above 75. All the choices you 75+ PBHers have in bike frames makes me delirious and jealous and still not tall. Meanwhile, on back on the little ol' Betty (whichfunny isn't it..the Hunq is beginning to ever-so-slightly resemble...muhuhuwahahaha.) On Apr 5, 9:01 am, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: No choice Grant and Keven make is going to make everybody happy. On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson d...@abelsons.net wrote: On Mon,
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
On Apr 6, 2:34 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: I will apologize first, but do think this triangapillar is just taking the discussion to a silly level. Somewhat. But from an engineering standpoint, three triangles are stronger than two. So technically, it is a stronger design than the diaga-piller. Also, I question whether the diaga-piller, which I hereby dub the dragon-pillar because it rolls off the tongue easier, is actually stronger. It creates two flattish somewhat triangular shapes. The flatness is the problem, I think. Not much strength in that. And really, they aren't even triangles to begin with. I would like to see some test results. I also wonder if someone can speak to the concept of using short stems on big frames to get the reach right. The Bombadil has a longish top tube for me. With drop bars, if I want to sit more upright than on a road bike, for example when touring, I would have to use a very short stem. From what I've read that affects the handling--negatively. A large frame should have a 12, 13, or 14 cm stem so that one's weight is distributed properly between the front and rear. It seems like the Bombadil was designed for mustache bars that extend backwards, but how does that affect the handling? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
From what I've read that affects the handling--negatively. A large frame should have a 12, 13, or 14 cm stem so that one's weight is distributed properly between the front and rear. It seems like the Bombadil was designed for mustache bars that extend backwards, but how does that affect the handling? Yes, we all know that Grant is a real slouch when it comes to designing bikes that handle well. On Apr 6, 4:22 pm, happyriding happyrid...@yahoo.com wrote: On Apr 6, 2:34 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: I will apologize first, but do think this triangapillar is just taking the discussion to a silly level. Somewhat. But from an engineering standpoint, three triangles are stronger than two. So technically, it is a stronger design than the diaga-piller. Also, I question whether the diaga-piller, which I hereby dub the dragon-pillar because it rolls off the tongue easier, is actually stronger. It creates two flattish somewhat triangular shapes. The flatness is the problem, I think. Not much strength in that. And really, they aren't even triangles to begin with. I would like to see some test results. I also wonder if someone can speak to the concept of using short stems on big frames to get the reach right. The Bombadil has a longish top tube for me. With drop bars, if I want to sit more upright than on a road bike, for example when touring, I would have to use a very short stem. From what I've read that affects the handling--negatively. A large frame should have a 12, 13, or 14 cm stem so that one's weight is distributed properly between the front and rear. It seems like the Bombadil was designed for mustache bars that extend backwards, but how does that affect the handling? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
When I portage my Hillborne up and down the long steps of the South Hayward Bart station, I grab it hard on the seat tube and loop my thumb into the top loop of the King cage that is bolted to the seat tube. If I'm wearing knit gloves, it's hard to get a good grip. More than once I've thought that it would be great to have a second top tube about halfway down the seat tube to simplify urban portage. On Apr 5, 9:12 am, Allingham II, Thomas J thomas.alling...@skadden.com wrote: I don't post very often (Jim pointed out there's an endless footer attached to my messages when I do!), but let me offer the opinion of an Atlantis and Bombadil owner (which means that I ain't buying one no matter what the decision is): I think the diagonal 2tt (the Campeur approach) is extremely attractive, AND cool, AND very likely highly, highly functional. For those who agree with the first two judgments (and there will obviously be disagreements), it is a grand slam home run. -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of happyriding Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:04 PM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar Just an opinion, and not meant to insult anyone...but that is the ugliest bike I've ever seen. Sorry. Just one opinion. I suspect one reason Rivendell might like to do the diagonal 2tt is marketing: it helps differentiate the Hunaqpillar from the Bombadil-- even if it doesn't improve on it. But if Rivendell's goal is to actually sell some frames, then I think a diagonal 2tt will be a tough sell. But then I thought the Bomadil would be a tough sell, too. Also, unless Rivendell does some testing on the strength differences (do they even have the capability?), I think that using a diagonal 2tt would be a rash decision. As for people like EricP, this new diagonal 2tt idea seems contrary to everything Rivendell said during the pre-order period: 1) Trust us 2) July delivery a good possibility 3) Only minor tweaks I imagine Rivendell would be willing to return deposits--but that won't cure the disappointment. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof. Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request. == -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
I agree, great job marty! I'm also with Matt on this for those who pre-ordered, and I'm one of them. It would be a substantial change to the design that was presented to early adopters and therefore if they're going to go through with this they need to contact each of those people. It sounds like an interesting design change, possibly for the better(looking and functioning) but it's a much bigger change than adding lining to lugs.. I'm sure they'll do the right thing though. Now back to speculation!! On Apr 5, 6:17 am, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: Dude! Marty, you are like, stupid fast with photoshop (or are you using GNU?). Nice work man. Either one looks good IMHO. I've always thought the Alex Singer design was cool. But, if Rivendell does change the design, maybe they should contact the folks who have plunked down their money, and talk to them about it a bit. I think most folks would probably be enthusiastic about the change, but some folks might not be. Matt On Apr 5, 8:38 am, Marty mgie...@mac.com wrote: OK - here you go - even added a second rear brake like the Singer - which BTW is one of my favorite designs... http://tinyurl.com/ydcalff Marty On Apr 5, 8:29 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Good effort. Now, how would it look with the mixte stays added in as well? Pretty good I think and a better support for the seat tube when going trail bombing under big loads From: Marty mgie...@mac.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:06:11 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar Here's my crude mock-up to show what seems to be the diagonal direction, with water bottle bosses and graphics relocated. Kind of liking it...but keep in mind this is only my interpretation of what has been mentioned. As Grants says, it's Keven's call. http://tinyurl.com/yebexd2 Marty -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
speaking as a person who did/does not like the original design, either of the Marty Photoshop designs are way better and lend a unique quaulity to the bike. Just sayin. ~Mike~ On Apr 5, 9:48 am, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: When I portage my Hillborne up and down the long steps of the South Hayward Bart station, I grab it hard on the seat tube and loop my thumb into the top loop of the King cage that is bolted to the seat tube. If I'm wearing knit gloves, it's hard to get a good grip. More than once I've thought that it would be great to have a second top tube about halfway down the seat tube to simplify urban portage. On Apr 5, 9:12 am, Allingham II, Thomas J thomas.alling...@skadden.com wrote: I don't post very often (Jim pointed out there's an endless footer attached to my messages when I do!), but let me offer the opinion of an Atlantis and Bombadil owner (which means that I ain't buying one no matter what the decision is): I think the diagonal 2tt (the Campeur approach) is extremely attractive, AND cool, AND very likely highly, highly functional. For those who agree with the first two judgments (and there will obviously be disagreements), it is a grand slam home run. -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of happyriding Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:04 PM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar Just an opinion, and not meant to insult anyone...but that is the ugliest bike I've ever seen. Sorry. Just one opinion. I suspect one reason Rivendell might like to do the diagonal 2tt is marketing: it helps differentiate the Hunaqpillar from the Bombadil-- even if it doesn't improve on it. But if Rivendell's goal is to actually sell some frames, then I think a diagonal 2tt will be a tough sell. But then I thought the Bomadil would be a tough sell, too. Also, unless Rivendell does some testing on the strength differences (do they even have the capability?), I think that using a diagonal 2tt would be a rash decision. As for people like EricP, this new diagonal 2tt idea seems contrary to everything Rivendell said during the pre-order period: 1) Trust us 2) July delivery a good possibility 3) Only minor tweaks I imagine Rivendell would be willing to return deposits--but that won't cure the disappointment. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. ------ To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof. Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request. ======- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Wow-- great mock up! I'll admit that it is much better than I expected it to look, but i still don't get it. I am sure it is stronger, but how much and is it necessary and isn't the Bomba pretty darn strong with the parallel tt's? There are definite disadvantages to the design, including bottle placement and carrying-- but how would they ever quantify the advantages with out extremely complicated testing? It seems a bit gimmicky and a bit different for the sake of being different. Seem a bit out of left field...major last minute design change. Cheers! cm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:48 AM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: When I portage my Hillborne up and down the long steps of the South Hayward Bart station, I grab it hard on the seat tube and loop my thumb into the top loop of the King cage that is bolted to the seat tube. If I'm wearing knit gloves, it's hard to get a good grip. More than once I've thought that it would be great to have a second top tube about halfway down the seat tube to simplify urban portage. Portaging a bike is a main thing that gives me pause with the 2tt designs. I may be wrong, but from your description, it sounds like you're carrying the bike like a large piece of luggage, which might be a lot simpler in a train station setting. In my case, there are at least a couple of places around town where trail access involves a long staircase or (on one offroad trail) a long log crossing, so i shoulder the bike, cyclocross-style. I don't use a tt-mounted pump on most bikes for this reason, and the smaller triangle of a 2tt would make it more difficult. Of course, i recognize most people probably don't generally have reason carry their bikes like this. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Bill Yeah, luggage style. My BART bike tends to be in the 45-50lb range loaded with all my work related stuff. My shoulder couldn't take that. other Bill On Apr 5, 10:14 am, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:48 AM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: When I portage my Hillborne up and down the long steps of the South Hayward Bart station, I grab it hard on the seat tube and loop my thumb into the top loop of the King cage that is bolted to the seat tube. If I'm wearing knit gloves, it's hard to get a good grip. More than once I've thought that it would be great to have a second top tube about halfway down the seat tube to simplify urban portage. Portaging a bike is a main thing that gives me pause with the 2tt designs. I may be wrong, but from your description, it sounds like you're carrying the bike like a large piece of luggage, which might be a lot simpler in a train station setting. In my case, there are at least a couple of places around town where trail access involves a long staircase or (on one offroad trail) a long log crossing, so i shoulder the bike, cyclocross-style. I don't use a tt-mounted pump on most bikes for this reason, and the smaller triangle of a 2tt would make it more difficult. Of course, i recognize most people probably don't generally have reason carry their bikes like this. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
On Apr 5, 11:14 am, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote: In my case, there are at least a couple of places around town where trail access involves a long staircase or (on one offroad trail) a long log crossing, so i shoulder the bike, cyclocross-style. I don't use a tt-mounted pump on most bikes for this reason, and the smaller triangle of a 2tt would make it more difficult. Of course, i recognize most people probably don't generally have reason carry their bikes like this. Other reasons to shoulder a bike: 2) Carrying a bike up the steps to an office or an apartment. If Rivendell wants to differentiate the Hunqapillar's tubing from a Bombadil, here are some other versions of different tube placements for their consideration: parallel down tube: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494189528/ parallel seat tube: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494187212/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Luggage style makes sense in that scenario, no matter the weight - having a bike swinging around near head height in crowds might make people nervous :-) On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:27 PM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Bill Yeah, luggage style. My BART bike tends to be in the 45-50lb range loaded with all my work related stuff. My shoulder couldn't take that. other Bill On Apr 5, 10:14 am, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:48 AM, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: When I portage my Hillborne up and down the long steps of the South Hayward Bart station, I grab it hard on the seat tube and loop my thumb into the top loop of the King cage that is bolted to the seat tube. If I'm wearing knit gloves, it's hard to get a good grip. More than once I've thought that it would be great to have a second top tube about halfway down the seat tube to simplify urban portage. Portaging a bike is a main thing that gives me pause with the 2tt designs. I may be wrong, but from your description, it sounds like you're carrying the bike like a large piece of luggage, which might be a lot simpler in a train station setting. In my case, there are at least a couple of places around town where trail access involves a long staircase or (on one offroad trail) a long log crossing, so i shoulder the bike, cyclocross-style. I don't use a tt-mounted pump on most bikes for this reason, and the smaller triangle of a 2tt would make it more difficult. Of course, i recognize most people probably don't generally have reason carry their bikes like this. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Eric, Riv isn't going to make any drastic changes to the Hunq, or else they'd have to call it something else. What you see here is pure fantasy. One thought about TT's not being parallel and all of the sudden we have a whole new frame? Nah. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
On Apr 5, 9:51 am, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: Eric, Riv isn't going to make any drastic changes to the Hunq, or else they'd have to call it something else. What you see here is pure fantasy. One thought about TT's not being parallel and all of the sudden we have a whole new frame? Nah. Did you see the name of the op? It's not April 1 anymore, either. Oh, yeah. Here is james black's suggested tube orientation--the two triangles are better than one geometry: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494282750/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Personally I like all the options shown better than two parallel toptubes. They all look like reinforcing structures to me whereas the paralle TT's just look redundant...what's that thing that's in the eye of the be-whatsits? Steve -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of happyriding Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:49 PM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar On Apr 5, 9:51 am, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: Eric, Riv isn't going to make any drastic changes to the Hunq, or else they'd have to call it something else. What you see here is pure fantasy. One thought about TT's not being parallel and all of the sudden we have a whole new frame? Nah. Did you see the name of the op? It's not April 1 anymore, either. Oh, yeah. Here is james black's suggested tube orientation--the two triangles are better than one geometry: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494282750/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:48, happyriding happyrid...@yahoo.com wrote: Oh, yeah. Here is james black's suggested tube orientation--the two triangles are better than one geometry: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494282750/ Thanks for mocking that up! It doesn't look as good as I had imagined when I described it - with a longer headtube, it would only improve. But I still think it looks better, more sensible and organic in a way, than any of the other schemes - except for the the campeur-style with the added stays, which I think would be a brilliant choice! James Black Los Angeles, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Danged! If that diagonal tube had been on the docket last week during the pre-deal, it might well have pushed me over the edge! FWIW, I saw a campeur in a (cool) shop in Paris last year - Rando Cycles http://www.flickr.com/photos/66275...@n00/4494454218/ ... I think it was the owner's bike. Big/tall dude... big/tall bike (and, all Campy Euclid iirc)! James: your triangulation suggestion reminded me of old Koski/Trailmaster stuff... (Kinda hard to) see: http://mombat.org/80Koski5.jpg http://mombat.org/80Koski8.jpg http://mombat.org/Koski.htm =- Joe Bunik Walnut Creek, CA On 4/5/10, james black chocot...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:48, happyriding happyrid...@yahoo.com wrote: Oh, yeah. Here is james black's suggested tube orientation--the two triangles are better than one geometry: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494282750/ Thanks for mocking that up! It doesn't look as good as I had imagined when I described it - with a longer headtube, it would only improve. But I still think it looks better, more sensible and organic in a way, than any of the other schemes - except for the the campeur-style with the added stays, which I think would be a brilliant choice! James Black Los Angeles, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
I like all of the tt configurations imagined here, far better than the parallel... This bike is meant to be a beast! The extra structure is interesting and functional. Cool like interesting duthh bikes. Unique l! Diagonal-ize! On Apr 5, 11:08 am, james black chocot...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:48, happyriding happyrid...@yahoo.com wrote: Oh, yeah. Here is james black's suggested tube orientation--the two triangles are better than one geometry: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494282750/ Thanks for mocking that up! It doesn't look as good as I had imagined when I described it - with a longer headtube, it would only improve. But I still think it looks better, more sensible and organic in a way, than any of the other schemes - except for the the campeur-style with the added stays, which I think would be a brilliant choice! James Black Los Angeles, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
On Apr 5, 12:08 pm, james black chocot...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:48, happyriding happyrid...@yahoo.com wrote: Oh, yeah. Here is james black's suggested tube orientation--the two triangles are better than one geometry: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494282750/ Thanks for mocking that up! It doesn't look as good as I had imagined when I described it - with a longer headtube, it would only improve. But I still think it looks better, more sensible and organic in a way, than any of the other schemes - except for the the campeur-style with the added stays, which I think would be a brilliant choice! Personally, I think I like the double down tube the best. It would also lower the center of gravity of the bike. I don't know how it would affect the twisting forces at the BB, though. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
And here's the fantasy decal for the Diagonpillar: http://www.flickr.com/photos/45758...@n04/4494550338/ On Apr 5, 11:52 am, Esteban proto...@gmail.com wrote: I like all of the tt configurations imagined here, far better than the parallel... This bike is meant to be a beast! The extra structure is interesting and functional. Cool like interesting duthh bikes. Unique l! Diagonal-ize! On Apr 5, 11:08 am, james black chocot...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:48, happyriding happyrid...@yahoo.com wrote: Oh, yeah. Here is james black's suggested tube orientation--the two triangles are better than one geometry: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49416...@n00/4494282750/ Thanks for mocking that up! It doesn't look as good as I had imagined when I described it - with a longer headtube, it would only improve. But I still think it looks better, more sensible and organic in a way, than any of the other schemes - except for the the campeur-style with the added stays, which I think would be a brilliant choice! James Black Los Angeles, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
On Apr 5, 1:06 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: And here's the fantasy decal for the Diagonpillar: http://www.flickr.com/photos/45758...@n04/4494550338/ Ha ha ha! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Just read that myself. It seems like some hard feelings are being formed. On Apr 5, 3:28 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: .and Grant posted about the various opinions, and indicated that one refund was given already. I think that's too bad, but nobody should buy a bike that they cannot like. On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson d...@abelsons.net wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced. Jars my view too much. Also makes it look like it's a fatty bike. Fine. I'm fat. That's been established. Don't like the idea that I'm stuck riding a special bike. With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the original Breezer, that might work. That's a copy of the Schwinn Excelsior frame. Also, on a slightly different note. With the center tube, would make it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without interference. At least on a 58. And forget using a pump with a mount like the Topeak Morph series. Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo. Without the extra standover. Yes, I'm upset about this. Will probably end up losing a lot of money selling off my frame without building it up. Not something I can live happily with. Sigh. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN Eric, If Riv makes the change, I would just call them. I would not be suprised if they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the change to the top tube. Dan Abelson St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
i hope there's no serious hard feeligns.. the new design is just that, a new design. it's different than what was initially shown during the presale and all the here's da hunka stuff. If someone doesn't like the changes ( i haven't made up my mind yet ), I don't see anything wrong with them asking for a refund as it is a different bike. Losing a customer with a change like this is a possibility sure, but I hope they're not losing friends or fans over this! Matt On Apr 5, 2:50 pm, happyriding happyrid...@yahoo.com wrote: Just read that myself. It seems like some hard feelings are being formed. On Apr 5, 3:28 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: .and Grant posted about the various opinions, and indicated that one refund was given already. I think that's too bad, but nobody should buy a bike that they cannot like. On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson d...@abelsons.net wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced. Jars my view too much. Also makes it look like it's a fatty bike. Fine. I'm fat. That's been established. Don't like the idea that I'm stuck riding a special bike. With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the original Breezer, that might work. That's a copy of the Schwinn Excelsior frame. Also, on a slightly different note. With the center tube, would make it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without interference. At least on a 58. And forget using a pump with a mount like the Topeak Morph series. Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo. Without the extra standover. Yes, I'm upset about this. Will probably end up losing a lot of money selling off my frame without building it up. Not something I can live happily with. Sigh. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN Eric, If Riv makes the change, I would just call them. I would not be suprised if they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the change to the top tube. Dan Abelson St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
I think it's a waste of energy to get upset about something like this. First, it's a bicycle. Bicycles are fun. Second, if you're upset about it, give it a few days and see if you still feel the same way. It's going to be a nice bike. On Apr 5, 1:50 pm, happyriding happyrid...@yahoo.com wrote: Just read that myself. It seems like some hard feelings are being formed. On Apr 5, 3:28 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: .and Grant posted about the various opinions, and indicated that one refund was given already. I think that's too bad, but nobody should buy a bike that they cannot like. On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson d...@abelsons.net wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced. Jars my view too much. Also makes it look like it's a fatty bike. Fine. I'm fat. That's been established. Don't like the idea that I'm stuck riding a special bike. With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the original Breezer, that might work. That's a copy of the Schwinn Excelsior frame. Also, on a slightly different note. With the center tube, would make it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without interference. At least on a 58. And forget using a pump with a mount like the Topeak Morph series. Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo. Without the extra standover. Yes, I'm upset about this. Will probably end up losing a lot of money selling off my frame without building it up. Not something I can live happily with. Sigh. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN Eric, If Riv makes the change, I would just call them. I would not be suprised if they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the change to the top tube. Dan Abelson St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Man...it sure must be nice to have a PBH above 75. All the choices you 75+ PBHers have in bike frames makes me delirious and jealous and still not tall. Meanwhile, on back on the little ol' Betty (whichfunny isn't it..the Hunq is beginning to ever-so-slightly resemble...muhuhuwahahaha.) On Apr 5, 9:01 am, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: No choice Grant and Keven make is going to make everybody happy. On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson d...@abelsons.net wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced. Jars my view too much. Also makes it look like it's a fatty bike. Fine. I'm fat. That's been established. Don't like the idea that I'm stuck riding a special bike. With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the original Breezer, that might work. That's a copy of the Schwinn Excelsior frame. Also, on a slightly different note. With the center tube, would make it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without interference. At least on a 58. And forget using a pump with a mount like the Topeak Morph series. Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo. Without the extra standover. Yes, I'm upset about this. Will probably end up losing a lot of money selling off my frame without building it up. Not something I can live happily with. Sigh. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN Eric, If Riv makes the change, I would just call them. I would not be suprised if they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the change to the top tube. Dan Abelson St. Paul, MN- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
If I had a deposit, I'd keep it in there until one of these comes off the boat. I'll bet they'll look pretty awesome. Having ridden the prototypes, I'll say that they are SOLID. This diagonal-fest will only make them more solid. And more awesome. And these were never svelte bikes. They are intended to be tanks, plowers, mowers...anything that adds strength (and innovation to boot) for this utility machine is welcomed... especially from Keven and Grant who do a lot of tinkering and riding and experimenting. Patience is a virtue. I'm liking this bike more and more. Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Apr 5, 3:48 pm, Beth betha.lu...@gmail.com wrote: Man...it sure must be nice to have a PBH above 75. All the choices you 75+ PBHers have in bike frames makes me delirious and jealous and still not tall. Meanwhile, on back on the little ol' Betty (whichfunny isn't it..the Hunq is beginning to ever-so-slightly resemble...muhuhuwahahaha.) On Apr 5, 9:01 am, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: No choice Grant and Keven make is going to make everybody happy. On Apr 5, 8:27 am, Dan Abelson d...@abelsons.net wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced. Jars my view too much. Also makes it look like it's a fatty bike. Fine. I'm fat. That's been established. Don't like the idea that I'm stuck riding a special bike. With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the original Breezer, that might work. That's a copy of the Schwinn Excelsior frame. Also, on a slightly different note. With the center tube, would make it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without interference. At least on a 58. And forget using a pump with a mount like the Topeak Morph series. Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo. Without the extra standover. Yes, I'm upset about this. Will probably end up losing a lot of money selling off my frame without building it up. Not something I can live happily with. Sigh. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN Eric, If Riv makes the change, I would just call them. I would not be suprised if they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the change to the top tube. Dan Abelson St. Paul, MN- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
I'm owning up. It's me that has the refund. Mainly due to the thought that this is not the bike I pre-ordered. It may be good, but not what I was lead to expect from the inital .pdf. The new bike is also too jarring to me visually. Sorry to the list if I've made too much and lead to discord. Not my wish. Do not want to alienate others because of my own stupid ideas. Am not mad at Rivendell at all. The blame (if there is any) lies squarely with me in this case. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Apr 5, 6:00�pm, Esteban kemm...@gmail.com wrote: If I had a deposit, I'd keep it in there until one of these comes off the boat. �I'll bet they'll look pretty awesome. �Having ridden the prototypes, I'll say that they are SOLID. �This diagonal-fest will only make them more solid. �And more awesome. And these were never svelte bikes. �They are intended to be tanks, plowers, mowers...anything that adds strength (and innovation to boot) for this utility machine is welcomed... especially from Keven and Grant who do a lot of tinkering and riding and experimenting. Patience is a virtue. �I'm liking this bike more and more. Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Apr 5, 3:48�pm, Beth betha.lu...@gmail.com wrote: Man...it sure must be nice to have a PBH above 75. All the choices you 75+ PBHers have in bike frames makes me delirious and jealous and still not tall. Meanwhile, on back on the little ol' Betty (whichfunny isn't it..the Hunq is beginning to ever-so-slightly resemble...muhuhuwahahaha.) On Apr 5, 9:01�am, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: No choice Grant and Keven make is going to make everybody happy. On Apr 5, 8:27�am, Dan Abelson d...@abelsons.net wrote: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:23 AM, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced. �Jars my view too much. �Also makes it look like it's a fatty bike. �Fine. �I'm fat. �That's been established. �Don't like the idea that I'm stuck riding a special bike. With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the original Breezer, that might work. �That's a copy of the Schwinn Excelsior frame. Also, on a slightly different note. �With the center tube, would make it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without interference. �At least on a 58. �And forget using a pump with a mount like the Topeak Morph series. Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo. Without the extra standover. Yes, I'm upset about this. �Will probably end up losing a lot of money selling off my frame without building it up. �Not something I can live happily with. Sigh. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN Eric, If Riv makes the change, I would just call them. �I would not be suprised if they were willing to refund your deposit if you are truly unhappy with the change to the top tube. Dan Abelson St. Paul, MN- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Eric-- I say good move and I think most people (including the people at Riv (warning: speculation)) would do the same thing and that most, good, honest businesses would WANT to give you your money back. There is no blame here-- you ordered something and it changed and you no longer wanted it. That is business. I also say that if you think something is a half-hearted copy then you should say it, and we as fans of Riv should listen. Not everything has to be cheerleading. As long as it is said respectfully, then I think we need to be open to the good and the bad. I like the diagon-apillar 58% as much as the regul-apillar.And I dont get it. And it doesnt seem necessary. And I am not sorry. Cheers! cm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Here's my crude mock-up to show what seems to be the diagonal direction, with water bottle bosses and graphics relocated. Kind of liking it...but keep in mind this is only my interpretation of what has been mentioned. As Grants says, it's Keven's call. http://tinyurl.com/yebexd2 Marty On Apr 5, 6:33 am, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Will wait until a photo is there before getting too depressed by it. However, it's turning into a different bike than the one I ordered. Really hoping that it is going to be worth the extra wait. And since the seat tube won't be able to take a bottle cage, the shifted 2nd tt will hopefully have cage bosses? Yes, yes, am complaining and whining about this way too much. But now, a 29er mixte. That would be cool. And something I'd ride. A lot. Eric Platt St. Pau, MN On Apr 4, 11:30 pm, Grant Petersen gr...@rivbike.com wrote: Midpoint of headtube to midpoint of seat tube. Sorta mixte-like. (Jim Thrill/Hiawatha said...) Keven loves the 62 Betty/Yves, and rides it a lot, and rode it with weight, and remarked how well it carried it, not what you'd expect from a mixte. But the design like that works, and that lead to the diagonalization of the 2tt (second top tube, I'm tired of typing it all out), and some friendly turmoil here. It's Keven's call, which way it goes, but I think it's looking diagonal. That's where I'd put my puka-shells. G -- Grant Rivendell Bicycle Workswww.rivbike.com 925 933 7304 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
It sounds very cool. I'm glad to hear it's a real thing- it'll make the Hunqapillar that much more unique. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
That is quite an interesting concept... and I like your mock-up! Doesn't seem crude at all. René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Good effort. Now, how would it look with the mixte stays added in as well? Pretty good I think and a better support for the seat tube when going trail bombing under big loads From: Marty mgie...@mac.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:06:11 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar Here's my crude mock-up to show what seems to be the diagonal direction, with water bottle bosses and graphics relocated. Kind of liking it...but keep in mind this is only my interpretation of what has been mentioned. As Grants says, it's Keven's call. http://tinyurl.com/yebexd2 Marty -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
I love it. I'd put $ down on one, made like that. :) Thanks for the Monday morning pick-me-up. From: Marty mgie...@mac.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:38:52 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar OK - here you go - even added a second rear brake like the Singer - which BTW is one of my favorite designs... http://tinyurl.com/ydcalff Marty On Apr 5, 8:29 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Good effort. Now, how would it look with the mixte stays added in as well? Pretty good I think and a better support for the seat tube when going trail bombing under big loads From: Marty mgie...@mac.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:06:11 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar Here's my crude mock-up to show what seems to be the diagonal direction, with water bottle bosses and graphics relocated. Kind of liking it...but keep in mind this is only my interpretation of what has been mentioned. As Grants says, it's Keven's call. http://tinyurl.com/yebexd2 Marty -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Dude! Marty, you are like, stupid fast with photoshop (or are you using GNU?). Nice work man. Either one looks good IMHO.I've always thought the Alex Singer design was cool. But, if Rivendell does change the design, maybe they should contact the folks who have plunked down their money, and talk to them about it a bit. I think most folks would probably be enthusiastic about the change, but some folks might not be. Matt On Apr 5, 8:38 am, Marty mgie...@mac.com wrote: OK - here you go - even added a second rear brake like the Singer - which BTW is one of my favorite designs... http://tinyurl.com/ydcalff Marty On Apr 5, 8:29 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Good effort. Now, how would it look with the mixte stays added in as well? Pretty good I think and a better support for the seat tube when going trail bombing under big loads From: Marty mgie...@mac.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:06:11 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar Here's my crude mock-up to show what seems to be the diagonal direction, with water bottle bosses and graphics relocated. Kind of liking it...but keep in mind this is only my interpretation of what has been mentioned. As Grants says, it's Keven's call. http://tinyurl.com/yebexd2 Marty -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Marty those are off the chain. That Hunq has a trunq of funq. Make sure you let Keven know those exist. Your mockups could shape the future! On Apr 5, 6:17 am, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: Dude! Marty, you are like, stupid fast with photoshop (or are you using GNU?). Nice work man. Either one looks good IMHO. I've always thought the Alex Singer design was cool. But, if Rivendell does change the design, maybe they should contact the folks who have plunked down their money, and talk to them about it a bit. I think most folks would probably be enthusiastic about the change, but some folks might not be. Matt On Apr 5, 8:38 am, Marty mgie...@mac.com wrote: OK - here you go - even added a second rear brake like the Singer - which BTW is one of my favorite designs... http://tinyurl.com/ydcalff Marty On Apr 5, 8:29 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Good effort. Now, how would it look with the mixte stays added in as well? Pretty good I think and a better support for the seat tube when going trail bombing under big loads From: Marty mgie...@mac.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:06:11 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar Here's my crude mock-up to show what seems to be the diagonal direction, with water bottle bosses and graphics relocated. Kind of liking it...but keep in mind this is only my interpretation of what has been mentioned. As Grants says, it's Keven's call. http://tinyurl.com/yebexd2 Marty -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Marty's Campeur Hunqa actually looks pretty good. The other one... not so much. I have a feeling the Campeur model would be a little more complicated to produce and so would jack up the price. I also like the bike the way it is with parallel TTs. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. Here's a picture of a Alex Singer camping bike from VBQ: http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/images/CascadeBlewett.jpg --mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Mid-head tube to mid-seat tube makes more sense to me than the parallel top tubes. Imagine a frame built with only the diagonal tube, no top tube or down tube. If you grabbed the head tube and seat tube and tried to twist them side to side so that they were not parallel, the diagonal tube would be in the best place to resist that force. Moving that tube higher or lower on the seat tube would make it less effective. In a tandem, that is the function of a 'marathon' tube that runs from the head tube to the middle of the rear seat tube - it keeps the stoker's seat tube in plane with the head tube by resisting twist. Adding the down and top tubes back to that imaginary frame would keep the seat and head tubes from flexing fore-and-aft, and keep the BB stable under pedaling loads. Most modern tandems followed Santana's lead and went away from using the marathon tube. They use a 'direct lateral' tube from the head tube to the stoker's bottom bracket instead. That arrangement is better at keeping the captain's bottom bracket from swaying, and allowed more convenient bottle placement (no telling which factor was more important). An oversized top tube is used to resist the twisting forces. That arrangement has no place in a single IMO, as BB stiffness is not a real issue. Calfee's CF tandems have no middle tubes at all, they use huge top and boom tubes to keep everything stiff enough. The question to me is, how big does a rider or a touring load need to be to need the extra stiffness of the diagonal tube? At what point does the weight of the diagonal tube become less than the extra thickness / diameter of the top and down tubes needed to achieve comparable stiffness in a plain diamond frame? Moot point for me, I'd fit a 54 Hunka so no diagonal tube for me. Bill On Apr 4, 10:03 pm, andrew hill neurod...@gmail.com wrote: parallel with the down tube might look pretty snazzy. best, andrew On Apr 4, 2010, at 9:52 PM, cyclotourist wrote: No Kevin, don't do it. On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Esteban proto...@gmail.com wrote: Fits the bike. Truly unique. Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Apr 4, 9:30 pm, Grant Petersen gr...@rivbike.com wrote: Midpoint of headtube to midpoint of seat tube. Sorta mixte-like. (Jim Thrill/Hiawatha said...) Keven loves the 62 Betty/Yves, and rides it a lot, and rode it with weight, and remarked how well it carried it, not what you'd expect from a mixte. But the design like that works, and that lead to the diagonalization of the 2tt (second top tube, I'm tired of typing it all out), and some friendly turmoil here. It's Keven's call, which way it goes, but I think it's looking diagonal. That's where I'd put my puka-shells. G -- Grant Rivendell Bicycle Workswww.rivbike.com 925 933 7304 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym. ~Bill Nye, scientist guy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
The mockups are really helpful, thanks for putting them together. I have to say, i greatly prefer the look of parallel top tubes, if a double TT is the plan, but i'm not on the Hunq list, so my vote is more theoretical. Two other observations in this discussion though: This is the second Riv frame that seems to be getting significant input from someone other than Grant (Rodeo designed by Mark, Keven at least some decisions on this one). Maybe this has happened before with less discussion, but it's interesting that it's part of the conversation with these frames. Also, if the 2nd top tube angle changes, will the decal have to change so the 2nd line in the Hunq's H matches it? (in the 2tt world, i like that this logo mirrors the frame) -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:06 AM, Marty mgie...@mac.com wrote: Here's my crude mock-up to show what seems to be the diagonal direction, with water bottle bosses and graphics relocated. Kind of liking it...but keep in mind this is only my interpretation of what has been mentioned. As Grants says, it's Keven's call. http://tinyurl.com/yebexd2 Marty On Apr 5, 6:33 am, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Will wait until a photo is there before getting too depressed by it. However, it's turning into a different bike than the one I ordered. Really hoping that it is going to be worth the extra wait. And since the seat tube won't be able to take a bottle cage, the shifted 2nd tt will hopefully have cage bosses? Yes, yes, am complaining and whining about this way too much. But now, a 29er mixte. That would be cool. And something I'd ride. A lot. Eric Platt St. Pau, MN On Apr 4, 11:30 pm, Grant Petersen gr...@rivbike.com wrote: Midpoint of headtube to midpoint of seat tube. Sorta mixte-like. (Jim Thrill/Hiawatha said...) Keven loves the 62 Betty/Yves, and rides it a lot, and rode it with weight, and remarked how well it carried it, not what you'd expect from a mixte. But the design like that works, and that lead to the diagonalization of the 2tt (second top tube, I'm tired of typing it all out), and some friendly turmoil here. It's Keven's call, which way it goes, but I think it's looking diagonal. That's where I'd put my puka-shells. G -- Grant Rivendell Bicycle Workswww.rivbike.com 925 933 7304 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Having looked at the first mockup, I'm not convinced. Jars my view too much. Also makes it look like it's a fatty bike. Fine. I'm fat. That's been established. Don't like the idea that I'm stuck riding a special bike. With full-length twin laterals, ala the Singer camping, or the original Breezer, that might work. That's a copy of the Schwinn Excelsior frame. Also, on a slightly different note. With the center tube, would make it difficult to sqeeze both a larger bottle and frame pump in without interference. At least on a 58. And forget using a pump with a mount like the Topeak Morph series. Finally, it looks like a half hearted attempt to copy a Salsa Fargo. Without the extra standover. Yes, I'm upset about this. Will probably end up losing a lot of money selling off my frame without building it up. Not something I can live happily with. Sigh. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Apr 5, 9:48 am, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote: The mockups are really helpful, thanks for putting them together. I have to say, i greatly prefer the look of parallel top tubes, if a double TT is the plan, but i'm not on the Hunq list, so my vote is more theoretical. Two other observations in this discussion though: This is the second Riv frame that seems to be getting significant input from someone other than Grant (Rodeo designed by Mark, Keven at least some decisions on this one). Maybe this has happened before with less discussion, but it's interesting that it's part of the conversation with these frames. Also, if the 2nd top tube angle changes, will the decal have to change so the 2nd line in the Hunq's H matches it? (in the 2tt world, i like that this logo mirrors the frame) -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:06 AM, Marty mgie...@mac.com wrote: Here's my crude mock-up to show what seems to be the diagonal direction, with water bottle bosses and graphics relocated. Kind of liking it...but keep in mind this is only my interpretation of what has been mentioned. As Grants says, it's Keven's call. http://tinyurl.com/yebexd2 Marty On Apr 5, 6:33 am, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Will wait until a photo is there before getting too depressed by it. However, it's turning into a different bike than the one I ordered. Really hoping that it is going to be worth the extra wait. And since the seat tube won't be able to take a bottle cage, the shifted 2nd tt will hopefully have cage bosses? Yes, yes, am complaining and whining about this way too much. But now, a 29er mixte. That would be cool. And something I'd ride. A lot. Eric Platt St. Pau, MN On Apr 4, 11:30 pm, Grant Petersen gr...@rivbike.com wrote: Midpoint of headtube to midpoint of seat tube. Sorta mixte-like. (Jim Thrill/Hiawatha said...) Keven loves the 62 Betty/Yves, and rides it a lot, and rode it with weight, and remarked how well it carried it, not what you'd expect from a mixte. But the design like that works, and that lead to the diagonalization of the 2tt (second top tube, I'm tired of typing it all out), and some friendly turmoil here. It's Keven's call, which way it goes, but I think it's looking diagonal. That's where I'd put my puka-shells. G -- Grant Rivendell Bicycle Workswww.rivbike.com 925 933 7304 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Just an opinion, and not meant to insult anyone...but that is the ugliest bike I've ever seen. Sorry. Just one opinion. I suspect one reason Rivendell might like to do the diagonal 2tt is marketing: it helps differentiate the Hunaqpillar from the Bombadil-- even if it doesn't improve on it. But if Rivendell's goal is to actually sell some frames, then I think a diagonal 2tt will be a tough sell. But then I thought the Bomadil would be a tough sell, too. Also, unless Rivendell does some testing on the strength differences (do they even have the capability?), I think that using a diagonal 2tt would be a rash decision. As for people like EricP, this new diagonal 2tt idea seems contrary to everything Rivendell said during the pre-order period: 1) Trust us 2) July delivery a good possibility 3) Only minor tweaks I imagine Rivendell would be willing to return deposits--but that won't cure the disappointment. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
Can't decide if I have a preference between the parallel vs. the diagonal 2nd top tube. Aesthetically, I didn't like the 2nd top tube at all when the first Bombadil pictures dropped. Now I don't mind it. In fact I kind of like how it looks. I kind of think that the diagonal 2tt might grow on me in the same way. Shaun Meehan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
I don't post very often (Jim pointed out there's an endless footer attached to my messages when I do!), but let me offer the opinion of an Atlantis and Bombadil owner (which means that I ain't buying one no matter what the decision is): I think the diagonal 2tt (the Campeur approach) is extremely attractive, AND cool, AND very likely highly, highly functional. For those who agree with the first two judgments (and there will obviously be disagreements), it is a grand slam home run. -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of happyriding Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:04 PM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar Just an opinion, and not meant to insult anyone...but that is the ugliest bike I've ever seen. Sorry. Just one opinion. I suspect one reason Rivendell might like to do the diagonal 2tt is marketing: it helps differentiate the Hunaqpillar from the Bombadil-- even if it doesn't improve on it. But if Rivendell's goal is to actually sell some frames, then I think a diagonal 2tt will be a tough sell. But then I thought the Bomadil would be a tough sell, too. Also, unless Rivendell does some testing on the strength differences (do they even have the capability?), I think that using a diagonal 2tt would be a rash decision. As for people like EricP, this new diagonal 2tt idea seems contrary to everything Rivendell said during the pre-order period: 1) Trust us 2) July delivery a good possibility 3) Only minor tweaks I imagine Rivendell would be willing to return deposits--but that won't cure the disappointment. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof. Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request. == -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
I may have missed this earlier in the discusion, but I assume that the 54 would still have only one top tube. Is that the current understanding as far as we know?Jim D Massachusetts --- On Mon, 4/5/10, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote: From: Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 10:48 AM The mockups are really helpful, thanks for putting them together. I have to say, i greatly prefer the look of parallel top tubes, if a double TT is the plan, but i'm not on the Hunq list, so my vote is more theoretical. Two other observations in this discussion though: This is the second Riv frame that seems to be getting significant input from someone other than Grant (Rodeo designed by Mark, Keven at least some decisions on this one). Maybe this has happened before with less discussion, but it's interesting that it's part of the conversation with these frames. Also, if the 2nd top tube angle changes, will the decal have to change so the 2nd line in the Hunq's H matches it? (in the 2tt world, i like that this logo mirrors the frame) -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:06 AM, Marty mgie...@mac.com wrote: Here's my crude mock-up to show what seems to be the diagonal direction, with water bottle bosses and graphics relocated. Kind of liking it...but keep in mind this is only my interpretation of what has been mentioned. As Grants says, it's Keven's call. http://tinyurl.com/yebexd2 Marty On Apr 5, 6:33 am, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote: Will wait until a photo is there before getting too depressed by it. However, it's turning into a different bike than the one I ordered. Really hoping that it is going to be worth the extra wait. And since the seat tube won't be able to take a bottle cage, the shifted 2nd tt will hopefully have cage bosses? Yes, yes, am complaining and whining about this way too much. But now, a 29er mixte. That would be cool. And something I'd ride. A lot. Eric Platt St. Pau, MN On Apr 4, 11:30 pm, Grant Petersen gr...@rivbike.com wrote: Midpoint of headtube to midpoint of seat tube. Sorta mixte-like. (Jim Thrill/Hiawatha said...) Keven loves the 62 Betty/Yves, and rides it a lot, and rode it with weight, and remarked how well it carried it, not what you'd expect from a mixte. But the design like that works, and that lead to the diagonalization of the 2tt (second top tube, I'm tired of typing it all out), and some friendly turmoil here. It's Keven's call, which way it goes, but I think it's looking diagonal. That's where I'd put my puka-shells. G -- Grant Rivendell Bicycle Workswww.rivbike.com 925 933 7304 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
I like the idea. On Apr 4, 9:52 pm, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote: No Kevin, don't do it. On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Esteban proto...@gmail.com wrote: Fits the bike. Truly unique. Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Apr 4, 9:30 pm, Grant Petersen gr...@rivbike.com wrote: Midpoint of headtube to midpoint of seat tube. Sorta mixte-like. (Jim Thrill/Hiawatha said...) Keven loves the 62 Betty/Yves, and rides it a lot, and rode it with weight, and remarked how well it carried it, not what you'd expect from a mixte. But the design like that works, and that lead to the diagonalization of the 2tt (second top tube, I'm tired of typing it all out), and some friendly turmoil here. It's Keven's call, which way it goes, but I think it's looking diagonal. That's where I'd put my puka-shells. G -- Grant Rivendell Bicycle Workswww.rivbike.com 925 933 7304 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2Bunsubscrib e...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym. ~Bill Nye, scientist guy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
parallel with the down tube might look pretty snazzy. best, andrew On Apr 4, 2010, at 9:52 PM, cyclotourist wrote: No Kevin, don't do it. On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Esteban proto...@gmail.com wrote: Fits the bike. Truly unique. Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Apr 4, 9:30 pm, Grant Petersen gr...@rivbike.com wrote: Midpoint of headtube to midpoint of seat tube. Sorta mixte-like. (Jim Thrill/Hiawatha said...) Keven loves the 62 Betty/Yves, and rides it a lot, and rode it with weight, and remarked how well it carried it, not what you'd expect from a mixte. But the design like that works, and that lead to the diagonalization of the 2tt (second top tube, I'm tired of typing it all out), and some friendly turmoil here. It's Keven's call, which way it goes, but I think it's looking diagonal. That's where I'd put my puka-shells. G -- Grant Rivendell Bicycle Workswww.rivbike.com 925 933 7304 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym. ~Bill Nye, scientist guy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Diagonapillar
I wonder if there is a drawing, mock up, or other bike out there with this config? It sounds kinda weird to me, but seeing it might change everything. cheers! cm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
