Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Kevin Huber via Talk]

Hi Nick:

Like you, there was a time, not too long ago, when I was determined
not to buy an IPhone or an IPad, in fact, I used to refer to all
IDevices as "OICrap".  A couple of years ago, however, I got an
IPhone.  I became convinced that that was the way to go, especially
since I commute to work on the bus.  Anyway, I read as much as I could
about the device before I got it.  There is a verry good resource
called Applevis.com which has a lot of information on all Apple
products.  Anyway, my IPhone is still working well and I am still
enjoying it.

Kevin Huber

On 3/17/17, Nick Sarames via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
> Without veering too much off topic, is there some preliminary advice you
> can give for trying to learn how to navagate a touch screen? Full
> disclosure, I'm a button man.
>
> On 3/17/2017 9:34 AM, Russ Kiehne via Talk wrote:
>> I was one of lthose who thought I would never want a touch screen
>> device.  I started llistening to a podcast about the ipod touch.  The
>> more I listened, I said to myself, I want one.  I was amazed with what
>> Apple  did with accessibility on a touch screen device.  So in 2010, I
>> bought a ipod touch 4th generation and Haven't looked back.  I like the
>> fact I can buy a off the shelf device and do everything I would do with
>> a specialized player and a whole lot ;more.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen
>> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:11 AM
>> To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Cc: Reeva Webb ; Dennis Long
>> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>
>> I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
>> touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
>> the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
>> think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
>>  I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
>> via Talk wrote:
>>
>>> In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader
>>> stream first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It
>>> has more volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does
>>> everything they do and a lot more.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
>>> Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>>
>>> You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had
>>> in the
>>> past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
>>> electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
>>> and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
>>> have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening
>>> with
>>> zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
>>> seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
>>> myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.
>>>
>>>
>>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
>>> night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho
>>>
>>> Reeva
>>>
>>> On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk"
>>> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree with you completely!
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk
>>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
>>> To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>>
>>> Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a
>>> touch
>>> screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
>>> worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
>>> 73
>>> Butch
>>> WA0VJR
>>> Node 3148
>>> Wallace, ks.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:
>>>
>>>>  I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
>>>>  become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
>>>> 

RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

Hi.  I totally agree with you. Not to menschen that voc rehab agencies
always pushed JAWS over Window-Eyes due to them being sued by FS if they
didn't approve of JAWS over any other product.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Singing Sparrow via Talk
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:50 PM
To: Steve Nutt; Window-Eyes Discussion List; 'Reeva Webb'
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

I like windows but I am leaning more towards a mac because of the things
that people have to go through for windows.

I mean, come on; I mean with the way that window eyes and jaws are competing
with each other even though that VFO has them both under their banner it is
very sad that things have come to this parting of the markets i mean that
since VFO has both jaws, window eyes, magic and zoomtext the markets aren't
going to be very friendly in the long run; and as to a mac you don't have to
worry about if your windows computer goes by the way side that you have to
re-register your copy of windows
10 with a mac all Mac OS versions are free and that the built in screen
reader "voiceover" is totally built into the OS.

that makes a mac a very viable option and yes they are mor expensive then a
window computer but they are built to last; also you can run windows on a
mac as well, so you do have the best of both worlds. 
3/19/2017 2:24 PM, Steve Nutt via Talk wrote:
> Hi Reeva,
>
> I'm with you here.  Even the Chromebook is really getting good now.  If I
> could find a good audio editing program for the Chromebook, I'm almost
done
> with PCs.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Reeva Webb via Talk
> Sent: 16 March 2017 06:54
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>; Dennis Long
> <dennisl1...@gmail.com>
> Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account
>
> You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in
the
> past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
> electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
and
> soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't have
to
> spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening with zt
> fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm seriously
> considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find myself using
> my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.
>
>
> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
> night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho
>
> Reeva
>
> On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk"
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> wrote:
>
> I agree with you completely!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
> To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>
> Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a
touch
> screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
> worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:
>
>> I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
>> become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
>> things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
>> for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
>> phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
>> searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
>> of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of
> time.
>> -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
>> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>> Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>
>> Greetings all.
>>
>> I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
>> We are promised CSUN updates in April.
>>
>> In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
>> going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
>> pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
>> leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible
> information sources.
>> Quite reasonably, AFB promo

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Dave via Talk]

Some of these other Screen Readers are just not in the same level of
Quality and Features as JAWS and Window Eyes.  Unless the other 
Screen Reader Companies have something JAWS might want, they are
probably Safe from a Hostile Take Over.  
-- 

Dave 

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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

There is another screen reader called System Access by Serotek.  I wonder if 
they will be the next one to be aquired by VFO?


-Original Message- 
From: Steve Nutt via Talk

Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2017 12:36 PM
To: 'Loy' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

Hi,

I hope not.  It's not a bad screen reader.  Not as good as WE, but not bad.

All the best

steve

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Loy via Talk
Sent: 17 March 2017 14:57
To: Pamela Dominguez <geo...@optonline.net>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

The only other screen reader I know of is Dolphin and who knows it may be
next on VFO's list of Acquisitions

.
 - Original Message -
 From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk
 To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 10:51 AM
 Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account


 I remember when this all went down, I referred to VFO as a monopoly, and
was
 smartly chastized for it.  I don't know why.  To me, it seems like it has
 taken over everything.  Isn't that a monopoly?  Pam.

 -Original Message-
 From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
 Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:34 PM
 To: 'Tony C' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
 Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

 Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
 happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of
deceitful
 dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are
always
 at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!

 If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
 been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity
and
 flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
 Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
 Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?

 Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying
with
 the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
 noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
 especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes
watching.

 Sincerely,
 Olusegun
 Denver, Colorado


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Singing Sparrow via Talk]

I like windows but I am leaning more towards a mac because of the things 
that people have to go through for windows.


I mean, come on; I mean with the way that window eyes and jaws are 
competing with each other even though that VFO has them both under their 
banner it is very sad that things have come to this parting of the 
markets i mean that since VFO has both jaws, window eyes, magic and 
zoomtext the markets aren't going to be very friendly in the long run; 
and as to a mac you don't have to worry about if your windows computer 
goes by the way side that you have to re-register your copy of windows 
10 with a mac all Mac OS versions are free and that the built in screen 
reader "voiceover" is totally built into the OS.


that makes a mac a very viable option and yes they are mor expensive 
then a window computer but they are built to last; also you can run 
windows on a mac as well, so you do have the best of both worlds. 
3/19/2017 2:24 PM, Steve Nutt via Talk wrote:

Hi Reeva,

I'm with you here.  Even the Chromebook is really getting good now.  If I
could find a good audio editing program for the Chromebook, I'm almost done
with PCs.

All the best

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: 16 March 2017 06:54
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>; Dennis Long
<dennisl1...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in the
past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook and
soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't have to
spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening with zt
fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm seriously
considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find myself using
my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a touch
screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of

time.

-Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

Greetings all.

I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
We are promised CSUN updates in April.

In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible

information sources.

Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain
blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.

One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that
although often people exchange useful information, the leadership
fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its
developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on
the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique
VFO's

behaviours.

Vaughan.


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RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Steve Nutt via Talk]

Hi,

I hope not.  It's not a bad screen reader.  Not as good as WE, but not bad.

All the best

steve

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Loy via Talk
Sent: 17 March 2017 14:57
To: Pamela Dominguez <geo...@optonline.net>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

The only other screen reader I know of is Dolphin and who knows it may be
next on VFO's list of Acquisitions 

.
  - Original Message -
  From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk
  To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
  Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 10:51 AM
  Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account


  I remember when this all went down, I referred to VFO as a monopoly, and
was
  smartly chastized for it.  I don't know why.  To me, it seems like it has
  taken over everything.  Isn't that a monopoly?  Pam.

  -Original Message-
  From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
  Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:34 PM
  To: 'Tony C' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
  Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

  Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
  happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of
deceitful
  dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are
always
  at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!

  If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
  been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity
and
  flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
  Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
  Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?

  Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying
with
  the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
  noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
  especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes
watching.

  Sincerely,
  Olusegun
  Denver, Colorado


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RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Steve Nutt via Talk]

Hi Reeva,

I'm with you here.  Even the Chromebook is really getting good now.  If I
could find a good audio editing program for the Chromebook, I'm almost done
with PCs.

All the best

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: 16 March 2017 06:54
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>; Dennis Long
<dennisl1...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in the
past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook and
soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't have to
spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening with zt
fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm seriously
considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find myself using
my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a touch
screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

> I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will 
> become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more 
> things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market 
> for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I 
> phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet 
> searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece 
> of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of
time.
>
> -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account
>
> Greetings all.
>
> I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
> We are promised CSUN updates in April.
>
> In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry 
> going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the 
> pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO 
> leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible
information sources.
>
> Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain 
> blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.
>
> One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that 
> although often people exchange useful information, the leadership 
> fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its 
> developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on 
> the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique 
> VFO's
behaviours.
>
> Vaughan.
>
>
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RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Nick,

You may find the following podcast series helpful in this regard:

https://blindabilities.com/bapresents/introducing-a-new-series-iphone-101/

Enjoy,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Nick Sarames via Talk
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 1:46 PM
To: Russ Kiehne <russ94...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>; Butch Bussen <but...@shellworld.net>
Cc: Reeva Webb <jadedangelpromi...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Without veering too much off topic, is there some preliminary advice you 
can give for trying to learn how to navagate a touch screen? Full 
disclosure, I'm a button man.

On 3/17/2017 9:34 AM, Russ Kiehne via Talk wrote:
> I was one of lthose who thought I would never want a touch screen
> device.  I started llistening to a podcast about the ipod touch.  The
> more I listened, I said to myself, I want one.  I was amazed with what
> Apple  did with accessibility on a touch screen device.  So in 2010, I
> bought a ipod touch 4th generation and Haven't looked back.  I like the
> fact I can buy a off the shelf device and do everything I would do with
> a specialized player and a whole lot ;more.
>
> -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:11 AM
> To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Reeva Webb ; Dennis Long
> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>
> I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
> touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
> the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
> think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
>  I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
> via Talk wrote:
>
>> In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader
>> stream first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It
>> has more volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does
>> everything they do and a lot more.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
>> Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>
>> You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had
>> in the
>> past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
>> electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
>> and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
>> have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening
>> with
>> zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
>> seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
>> myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.
>>
>>
>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
>> night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho
>>
>> Reeva
>>
>> On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk"
>> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with you completely!
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
>> On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
>> To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>
>> Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a
>> touch
>> screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
>> worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:
>>
>>>  I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
>>>  become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
>>>  things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
>>>  for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
>>>  phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
>>>  searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
>>>  of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of
>> time.
&

RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[John Farley via Talk]

This is really for UK people on this list.

Does anyone know if the APH Orbit Reader 20 will be available in the UK? 
If so, from where and at what cost?


Regards, John

Tel: +44 (0) 1442 259243
Mob: +44 (0) 7815 056076



-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+john_farley=btinternet@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Russ Kiehne via Talk
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 1:23 PM
To: Terri Pannett; Marcie Chaney; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

The APH Orbit Reader 20 will allow you to add a braille display to a smart 
phone, tablet or ipod touch.

-Original Message- 
From: Terri Pannett via Talk
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 9:22 AM
To: Marcie Chaney ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

I don't think you said anything about braille.  Braille has always been
important to me, and I wonder if the mainstream phones and computers
would support it if the braille notetakers/displays were no longer
around.  Only blind people who read and write braille exclusively can
understand this.



Terri Amateur radio call sign KF6CA
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

Don't be surprised if the VFO group tries to acquire Sarotec?

-Original Message- 
From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk

Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 1:14 PM
To: Pamela Dominguez ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Pam: VFO is very close to a monopoly.  Not quite, as there are other
players but certainly close.


The point is that it may have become so dominant that it prevents other
players from growing their market share or even entering the market.


The opinion that someone has offered whereby perhaps VFO will acquire
Dolphin is interesting and speculatively possible.


Vaughan.




On 3/18/2017 3:51 AM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
I remember when this all went down, I referred to VFO as a monopoly, and 
was smartly chastized for it.  I don't know why.  To me, it seems like it 
has taken over everything.  Isn't that a monopoly?  Pam.


-Original Message- From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. 
via Talk

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:34 PM
To: 'Tony C' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of 
deceitful
dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are 
always

at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!

If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity 
and

flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?

Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying 
with

the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes 
watching.


Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

Many blind people can't afford the high price for braille displays and 
notetakers.


-Original Message- 
From: Nick Sarames

Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 10:33 AM
To: Terri Pannett ; Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Russ Kiehne
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Remember, most blind persons don't use Braille.

On 3/17/2017 12:41 PM, Terri Pannett via Talk wrote:

Again, braille is not supported the way it should be.  20 cells is just
not enough, especially if you want to use braille exclusively and turn
off speech.  I would never buy an Orbit for that reason.


Terri Amateur radio call sign KF6CA
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

Look at it this way, buying a APH Orbet Reader 20 display and a ios or 
android device will save you a lot of money over buying a Notetaker.  Many 
blind people can't afford $5000 for a Notetaker!


-Original Message- 
From: Terri Pannett

Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 9:38 AM
To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account


From what people have posted on various lists that I belong to, I

understand that using braille on an Apple device would be a challenge.
This is because everything is translated into grade 2 instantly so if
you don't write fast enough, your text will be garbled. People who
prefer braille will still have to use either a braille notetaker or a
braille display to read and write braille with an Apple device.

I not only object to touch screens, I also object to using complicated
Apple and Android devices.

If you like your I device, that's fine, but don't force me to buy one.



Terri Amateur radio call sign KF6CA 


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

The APH Orbit Reader 20 will allow you to add a braille display to a smart 
phone, tablet or ipod touch.


-Original Message- 
From: Terri Pannett via Talk

Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 9:22 AM
To: Marcie Chaney ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

I don't think you said anything about braille.  Braille has always been
important to me, and I wonder if the mainstream phones and computers
would support it if the braille notetakers/displays were no longer
around.  Only blind people who read and write braille exclusively can
understand this.



Terri Amateur radio call sign KF6CA
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Singing Sparrow via Talk]

that should also give you uncontracted braille instead of contracted 
braille input and output.



On 3/17/2017 5:42 PM, Reg Webb via Talk wrote:

You can set braille input and output on the iPhone, contracted, 6 dot,
or 8 dot in both cases.



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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Reg Webb via Talk]

You can set braille input and output on the iPhone, contracted, 6 dot,
or 8 dot in both cases.

-- 
Reg


On Fri, 17 Mar 2017 09:38:15 -0700
Terri Pannett via Talk  wrote:

>  From what people have posted on various lists that I belong to, I understand 
> that using braille on an Apple device would be a challenge. This is because 
> everything is translated into grade 2 instantly so if you don't write fast 
> enough, your text will be garbled. People who prefer braille will still have 
> to use either a braille notetaker or a braille display to read and write 
> braille with an Apple device.
> 
> I not only object to touch screens, I also object to using complicated Apple 
> and Android devices.
> 
> If you like your I device, that's fine, but don't force me to buy one.
> 
> 
> 
> Terri Amateur radio call sign KF6CA
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Vaughan Dodd via Talk]

Certainly: and although I won't be getting an Orbit Reader as it does 
not meet my requirements, it might be a game changer for many. My 
Note-taker gets used less and less often as my iPhone usage with any one 
of several braille displays increases.



Vaughan.




On 3/18/2017 2:50 AM, Russ Kiehne via Talk wrote:

Think about this?

You can get a iphone and APH — Orbit Reader 20 for a lot less money 
than a Notetaker?


-Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 2:44 PM
To: 'Russ Kiehne' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

I'm similar: IPhone is the device of choice.  Might actually get an 
Ipad. Add a braille display, which isn't carried if not needed, and 
for personal use - mainstream devices offer so much promise. Not so 
for me at work though.


Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Russ Kiehne via Talk

Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:09 a.m.
To: Reeva Webb; Window-Eyes Discussion List; Dennis Long
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader 
stream first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket. It 
has more volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does 
everything they do and a lot more.


-Original Message-
From: Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had 
in the past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go 
into a electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a 
chromebook and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the 
box. You don't have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While 
what is happening with zt fusion, something I spent my own money to 
buy makes me mad. I'm seriously considering just going fully with 
mainstream products. I find myself using my android devices more and 
pulling out my laptop less.



"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never 
promised night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls 
Of Jericho


Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>

wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]

On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a 
touch screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall 
into that worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for 
everyone

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of

time.


-Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

Greetings all.

I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
We are promised CSUN updates in April.

In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible

information sources.


Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain
blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it 
iehter.


One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that
although often people exchange useful information, the leadership
fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its
developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on
the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique
VFO's

behaviours.


Vaughan.


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Vaughan Dodd via Talk]

Pam: VFO is very close to a monopoly.  Not quite, as there are other 
players but certainly close.



The point is that it may have become so dominant that it prevents other 
players from growing their market share or even entering the market.



The opinion that someone has offered whereby perhaps VFO will acquire 
Dolphin is interesting and speculatively possible.



Vaughan.




On 3/18/2017 3:51 AM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
I remember when this all went down, I referred to VFO as a monopoly, 
and was smartly chastized for it.  I don't know why.  To me, it seems 
like it has taken over everything.  Isn't that a monopoly?  Pam.


-Original Message- From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, 
Inc. via Talk

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:34 PM
To: 'Tony C' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of 
deceitful
dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are 
always

at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!

If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With 
impunity and

flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?

Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying 
with

the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes 
watching.


Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Vaughan Dodd via Talk]

Not completely correct: you are accurate in that by default, contracted 
braille is the default translation, but you can set things so as to 
input and output in uncontracted Braille.  Or - as I do - input in 
uncontracted and see output in contracted.



Braille on  an Apple device for me is essential.  But if people do not 
like touch screens, and do not use braille, there are numerous Bluetooth 
keyboards which solve this problem.




Vaughan.




On 3/18/2017 5:38 AM, Terri Pannett via Talk wrote:
From what people have posted on various lists that I belong to, I 
understand that using braille on an Apple device would be a challenge. 
This is because everything is translated into grade 2 instantly so if 
you don't write fast enough, your text will be garbled. People who 
prefer braille will still have to use either a braille notetaker or a 
braille display to read and write braille with an Apple device.


I not only object to touch screens, I also object to using complicated 
Apple and Android devices.


If you like your I device, that's fine, but don't force me to buy one.



Terri Amateur radio call sign KF6CA
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Stephen Clark via Talk]

I've been doing a lot of reading up on this, it appears the future of 
Windows is a universal platform that can run any app written in any 
programming language. So, in theory, it won't matter what device or 
platform you're using. With slight modifications, the same universal app 
could run on any device and/or platform.


For example, you could have an app that was written  and runs on the 
Windows desktop, but it will also run on Windows Mobile, i-OS and 
Android, etc.


MS already has accessibility built into many of the controls used in 
these universal apps and they say they are working to make them even 
more accessible. If Window-eyes or Jaws could add a little extra support 
then that's all we would really need.



==Steve
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Evan Reese via Talk]

Well, the best advice I can give is when first trying to use a touchscreen, 
take your time. Move your finger slowly around the screen.
When I first got my iPad Mini 4, I moved my finger too quickly across the 
screen, causing me to have trouble finding out what was on the screen 
because my finger was already onto something else before VoiceOver had a 
chance to tell me what I had touched. It took some self discipline, but once 
I slowed down, things went much better. You can speed up again when you know 
your way around.
Another piece of advice is just practice, practice. There's even a practice 
mode in VoiceOver that lets you try out the various gestures without 
actually activating anything.
It's not perfect. No computer is. But it's a pretty impressive achievement 
all the same what they've been able to create with accessibility on the 
iDevices.
Kind of makes me sad for what accessibility on Windows machines might be or 
could have been for many years if Microsoft had made a similar effort as 
Apple has.

Evan

-Original Message- 
From: Nick Sarames via Talk

Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 1:46 PM
To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Butch Bussen
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Without veering too much off topic, is there some preliminary advice you
can give for trying to learn how to navagate a touch screen? Full
disclosure, I'm a button man.

On 3/17/2017 9:34 AM, Russ Kiehne via Talk wrote:

I was one of lthose who thought I would never want a touch screen
device.  I started llistening to a podcast about the ipod touch.  The
more I listened, I said to myself, I want one.  I was amazed with what
Apple  did with accessibility on a touch screen device.  So in 2010, I
bought a ipod touch 4th generation and Haven't looked back.  I like the
fact I can buy a off the shelf device and do everything I would do with
a specialized player and a whole lot ;more.

-Original Message- From: Butch Bussen
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:11 AM
To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb ; Dennis Long
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
 I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
via Talk wrote:


In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader
stream first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It
has more volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does
everything they do and a lot more.

-Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had
in the
past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening
with
zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk"
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a
touch
screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


 I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
 become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
 things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
 for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
 phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
 searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
 of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of

time.


 -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
 Sen

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Without veering too much off topic, is there some preliminary advice you 
can give for trying to learn how to navagate a touch screen? Full 
disclosure, I'm a button man.

On 3/17/2017 9:34 AM, Russ Kiehne via Talk wrote:
> I was one of lthose who thought I would never want a touch screen
> device.  I started llistening to a podcast about the ipod touch.  The
> more I listened, I said to myself, I want one.  I was amazed with what
> Apple  did with accessibility on a touch screen device.  So in 2010, I
> bought a ipod touch 4th generation and Haven't looked back.  I like the
> fact I can buy a off the shelf device and do everything I would do with
> a specialized player and a whole lot ;more.
>
> -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:11 AM
> To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Reeva Webb ; Dennis Long
> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>
> I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
> touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
> the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
> think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
>  I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
> via Talk wrote:
>
>> In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader
>> stream first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It
>> has more volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does
>> everything they do and a lot more.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
>> Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>
>> You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had
>> in the
>> past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
>> electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
>> and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
>> have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening
>> with
>> zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
>> seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
>> myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.
>>
>>
>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
>> night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho
>>
>> Reeva
>>
>> On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk"
>> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with you completely!
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
>> On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
>> To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>
>> Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a
>> touch
>> screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
>> worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:
>>
>>>  I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
>>>  become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
>>>  things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
>>>  for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
>>>  phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
>>>  searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
>>>  of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of
>> time.
>>>
>>>  -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
>>>  To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>>>  Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>>
>>>  Greetings all.
>>>
>>>  I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
>>>  We are promised CSUN updates in April.
>>>
>>>  In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
>>>  going through significant change, not to mention th

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Remember, most blind persons don't use Braille.

On 3/17/2017 12:41 PM, Terri Pannett via Talk wrote:
> Again, braille is not supported the way it should be.  20 cells is just
> not enough, especially if you want to use braille exclusively and turn
> off speech.  I would never buy an Orbit for that reason.
>
>
> Terri Amateur radio call sign KF6CA
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

I once said, don't force me to buy a computer.

On 3/17/2017 12:38 PM, Terri Pannett via Talk wrote:
> From what people have posted on various lists that I belong to, I
> understand that using braille on an Apple device would be a challenge.
> This is because everything is translated into grade 2 instantly so if
> you don't write fast enough, your text will be garbled. People who
> prefer braille will still have to use either a braille notetaker or a
> braille display to read and write braille with an Apple device.
>
> I not only object to touch screens, I also object to using complicated
> Apple and Android devices.
>
> If you like your I device, that's fine, but don't force me to buy one.
>
>
>
> Terri Amateur radio call sign KF6CA
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> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

On the other hand, we have a resource we never had before, Ebay.  Also, 
there are more voice activated appliances than ever before including 
Alexa.  It's a tradeoff.

On 3/17/2017 12:42 PM, Evan Reese via Talk wrote:
> The "vast number of electronic items that have unreadable Screens of all
> sizes", includes household appliances now. We had a heck of a time a few
> years ago finding a stove we could use. If you haven't looked lately,
> just about all of them come with a screen that you have to use to set
> the temperature.
> Fortunately, a friend of ours found one, just one among a whole bunch of
> others on the floor of our nearby home improvement superstore, gas range
> that still had knobs on it that you can actually turn.
> Try to find a washer or drier that doesn't have a touchscreen you have
> to use to run it. Luckily, we haven't yet needed to look for one of
> those, but I'm not optimistic we'll be able to find one when we need it
> with buttons or knobs you can feel.
> Evan
>
> -Original Message- From: Dave via Talk
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 11:07 AM
> To: Rick Thomas ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>
> Yes Rick, I reluctantly agree with you that too many things have become
> Political.   And I for one, do not know how to reverse this politicizing
> of every sort of Service the Government or Privet Sector might offer.
>
> Let's face it, the Blind are a very small group when looking at the
> entire population.
>
> As computers continue to be more and more visually orientated, and more
> of the population are operating at a semi-literate  level of skills, I
> don't see this move towards graphical interfaces to change any time soon.
>
> And with the extra pressures to bring products to market quickly , the
> entire product sufferers because of so many short cuts and compromises
> implemented.  Accessibility for the Blind?  Who has time for that?
>
> I know some here believe they have more accessibility today, and in some
> ways, they are correct.  But I find in the work place, accessibility is
> slowly going backwards.
>
> What this means for the Blind person depending upon Screen Readers and
> other equipment to be mastered by memorizing a long list of steps, is
> not good.
>
> The lack of Buttons, and the vast number of electronic items that have
> unreadable Screens of all sizes,  makes working in the typical Office,
> or even Warehouse a more difficult task then it was just a few years ago.
>
> I keep thinking those who are Blind are going to need to Specialize in
> something in order to make a living.  Just what that "Something" could
> be is a question that has many answers, although, those answers are
> probably not obvious.
>
> After spending years in the Computer field, I can no longer find a place
> in that field for solid employment.Oh, there are lots of
> opportunities, but I haven't figured ut how to over come the lack of
> access in some of the equipment or software to be used.
>
> I am now looking at doing something that requires very little in the way
> of electronic gear.  Something like re-building Electric Motors.
> Electric motors are every where and they do wear out, and need replacing
> or rebuilding.
>
> but, I think it is Odd Ball opportunities like this that might allow
> someone blind to live a better life than living on Disability.
>
> Not Glamorous, or even interesting, but there is a Need, and a person who
> is Good, can make some reasonable money doing it.
>
> sure beats Selling Pencils as my Grand mother once suggested I try,
> just after I lost my sight.
>
> I keep hoping for the Best, but am aware I need to be prepared for less
> than Best if need be.
>
> Grumpy Dave
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Terri Pannett via Talk]

From what people have posted on various lists that I belong to, I 
understand that using braille on an Apple device would be a challenge. 
This is because everything is translated into grade 2 instantly so if 
you don't write fast enough, your text will be garbled. People who 
prefer braille will still have to use either a braille notetaker or a 
braille display to read and write braille with an Apple device.


I not only object to touch screens, I also object to using complicated 
Apple and Android devices.


If you like your I device, that's fine, but don't force me to buy one.



Terri Amateur radio call sign KF6CA
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Evan Reese via Talk]

The "vast number of electronic items that have unreadable Screens of all 
sizes", includes household appliances now. We had a heck of a time a few 
years ago finding a stove we could use. If you haven't looked lately, just 
about all of them come with a screen that you have to use to set the 
temperature.
Fortunately, a friend of ours found one, just one among a whole bunch of 
others on the floor of our nearby home improvement superstore, gas range 
that still had knobs on it that you can actually turn.
Try to find a washer or drier that doesn't have a touchscreen you have to 
use to run it. Luckily, we haven't yet needed to look for one of those, but 
I'm not optimistic we'll be able to find one when we need it with buttons or 
knobs you can feel.

Evan

-Original Message- 
From: Dave via Talk

Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 11:07 AM
To: Rick Thomas ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Yes Rick, I reluctantly agree with you that too many things have become
Political.   And I for one, do not know how to reverse this politicizing
of every sort of Service the Government or Privet Sector might offer.

Let's face it, the Blind are a very small group when looking at the
entire population.

As computers continue to be more and more visually orientated, and more
of the population are operating at a semi-literate  level of skills, I
don't see this move towards graphical interfaces to change any time soon.

And with the extra pressures to bring products to market quickly , the
entire product sufferers because of so many short cuts and compromises
implemented.  Accessibility for the Blind?  Who has time for that?

I know some here believe they have more accessibility today, and in some
ways, they are correct.  But I find in the work place, accessibility is
slowly going backwards.

What this means for the Blind person depending upon Screen Readers and
other equipment to be mastered by memorizing a long list of steps, is
not good.

The lack of Buttons, and the vast number of electronic items that have
unreadable Screens of all sizes,  makes working in the typical Office,
or even Warehouse a more difficult task then it was just a few years ago.

I keep thinking those who are Blind are going to need to Specialize in
something in order to make a living.  Just what that "Something" could
be is a question that has many answers, although, those answers are
probably not obvious.

After spending years in the Computer field, I can no longer find a place
in that field for solid employment.Oh, there are lots of
opportunities, but I haven't figured ut how to over come the lack of
access in some of the equipment or software to be used.

I am now looking at doing something that requires very little in the way
of electronic gear.  Something like re-building Electric Motors.
Electric motors are every where and they do wear out, and need replacing
or rebuilding.

but, I think it is Odd Ball opportunities like this that might allow
someone blind to live a better life than living on Disability.

Not Glamorous, or even interesting, but there is a Need, and a person who
is Good, can make some reasonable money doing it.

sure beats Selling Pencils as my Grand mother once suggested I try,
just after I lost my sight.

I keep hoping for the Best, but am aware I need to be prepared for less
than Best if need be.

Grumpy Dave





--
Dave <dlh...@centurylink.net>

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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Terri Pannett via Talk]

Again, braille is not supported the way it should be.  20 cells is just 
not enough, especially if you want to use braille exclusively and turn 
off speech.  I would never buy an Orbit for that reason.



Terri Amateur radio call sign KF6CA
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RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk]

Reg Web, President Trump going blind?  You've been wiretapping the green
White House!  Oh, and from England?  Yikes!  You're in trouble, you've been
spying for the UK5 for a long, long time!  Now watch out, we're coming after
you!!

Sarcasm apart, it would probably be hidden from the public the same way
Roosevelt's disability was hidden almost for life!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Terri Pannett via Talk]

I don't think you said anything about braille.  Braille has always been 
important to me, and I wonder if the mainstream phones and computers 
would support it if the braille notetakers/displays were no longer 
around.  Only blind people who read and write braille exclusively can 
understand this.




Terri Amateur radio call sign KF6CA
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Dave via Talk]

Yes Rick, I reluctantly agree with you that too many things have become
Political.   And I for one, do not know how to reverse this politicizing
of every sort of Service the Government or Privet Sector might offer.  

Let's face it, the Blind are a very small group when looking at the
entire population.  

As computers continue to be more and more visually orientated, and more
of the population are operating at a semi-literate  level of skills, I
don't see this move towards graphical interfaces to change any time soon.  

And with the extra pressures to bring products to market quickly , the
entire product sufferers because of so many short cuts and compromises
implemented.  Accessibility for the Blind?  Who has time for that?  

I know some here believe they have more accessibility today, and in some
ways, they are correct.  But I find in the work place, accessibility is
slowly going backwards.  

What this means for the Blind person depending upon Screen Readers and
other equipment to be mastered by memorizing a long list of steps, is
not good.  

The lack of Buttons, and the vast number of electronic items that have
unreadable Screens of all sizes,  makes working in the typical Office,
or even Warehouse a more difficult task then it was just a few years ago.  

I keep thinking those who are Blind are going to need to Specialize in
something in order to make a living.  Just what that "Something" could
be is a question that has many answers, although, those answers are
probably not obvious.  

After spending years in the Computer field, I can no longer find a place
in that field for solid employment.Oh, there are lots of
opportunities, but I haven't figured ut how to over come the lack of
access in some of the equipment or software to be used.  

I am now looking at doing something that requires very little in the way
of electronic gear.  Something like re-building Electric Motors. 
Electric motors are every where and they do wear out, and need replacing
or rebuilding.  

but, I think it is Odd Ball opportunities like this that might allow
someone blind to live a better life than living on Disability.  

Not Glamorous, or even interesting, but there is a Need, and a person who
is Good, can make some reasonable money doing it.  

sure beats Selling Pencils as my Grand mother once suggested I try, 
just after I lost my sight.  

I keep hoping for the Best, but am aware I need to be prepared for less
than Best if need be.  

Grumpy Dave





-- 
Dave 

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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Reg Webb via Talk]

Pam

And for those who would monopolise, the prospects for screwing more
money out of their friends in government agencies don't look so rosy
under a Trump administration which would only get interested if the
president himself went blind.

-- 
Reg
<regw...@btinternet.com>

On Fri, 17 Mar 2017 10:51:21 -0400
Pamela Dominguez via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:

> I remember when this all went down, I referred to VFO as a monopoly, and was 
> smartly chastized for it.  I don't know why.  To me, it seems like it has 
> taken over everything.  Isn't that a monopoly?  Pam.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via 
> Talk
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:34 PM
> To: 'Tony C' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account
> 
> Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
> happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful
> dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always
> at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!
> 
> If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
> been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and
> flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
> Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
> Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?
> 
> Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with
> the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
> noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
> especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Olusegun
> Denver, Colorado
> 
> 
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Loy via Talk]

The only other screen reader I know of is Dolphin and who knows it may be next 
on VFO's list of 
Acquisitions 

.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk 
  To: ukekearu...@valtdnet.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
  Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 10:51 AM
  Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account


  I remember when this all went down, I referred to VFO as a monopoly, and was 
  smartly chastized for it.  I don't know why.  To me, it seems like it has 
  taken over everything.  Isn't that a monopoly?  Pam.

  -Original Message- 
  From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
  Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:34 PM
  To: 'Tony C' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
  Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

  Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
  happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful
  dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always
  at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!

  If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
  been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and
  flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
  Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
  Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?

  Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with
  the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
  noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
  especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.

  Sincerely,
  Olusegun
  Denver, Colorado


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Pamela Dominguez via Talk]

Somebody asked me why didn't I get office, and download the free window 
eyes.  I ask why I should.  I already have the window eyes that I bought on 
time payments, back when they had them.  So, I already have window eyes. 
So, all I have to do is buy smas.  So, I hope they do update it.  Pam.


-Original Message- 
From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:45 PM
To: 'ukekearu...@valtdnet.com' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

I feel that the key point as this relates to Window-eyes is missed: if you 
don't pay - you can presume to not get. The Window-Eyes for Office deal has 
meant that there is no cash to fix long standing problems or to develop new 
features.


People who make a business choice to develop tools which make our lives 
better do also have to live.  Although I will always remain unhappy with 
current developments, the software engineers who continue to develop screen 
readers are tradable - they can sell their skills to someone else.


I do believe that the virtual monopoly on screen readers especially for 
those who are employed is a bad thng.  But - it is what we have, and it 
might be that there is now a huge barrier which prevents others from 
offering choice to consumers.
Tough as it is: we have to make spending choices, and certainly, if 
financial assistance is there - take it.  But: someone produces and sells, 
someone else buys and consumes.


Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk

Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:34 p.m.
To: 'Tony C'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty 
happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful 
dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always 
at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!


If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have 
been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and 
flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O 
Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?


Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with 
the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk 
noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless 
especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.


Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Pamela Dominguez via Talk]

I remember when this all went down, I referred to VFO as a monopoly, and was 
smartly chastized for it.  I don't know why.  To me, it seems like it has 
taken over everything.  Isn't that a monopoly?  Pam.


-Original Message- 
From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:34 PM
To: 'Tony C' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful
dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always
at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!

If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and
flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?

Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with
the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Loy via Talk]

Microsoft could developed Narrator to work as good as any screen reader and the 
cost could be spread out across million and millions of copies of Windows, 
where a company like VFO or AISquared has to spread out the cost to a few 
thousand copies of the screen readers sold. Apple did it so why can't 
Microsoft. The present version of Narrator is only good for some things but 
useless in many.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Singing Sparrow via Talk 
  To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Sky Mundell 
  Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 10:11 AM
  Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account


  Sometimes i wonder what microsoft really saw in window eyes in the first 
  place?
  I mean they could have advanced narrater to the point it is today with 
  in windows 10 and made it work fluently with all windowsoperating systems.
  On 3/17/2017 7:57 AM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
  > Yep, and we don't know what microsoft was paying for the product.
  > 73
  > Butch
  > WA0VJR
  > Node 3148
  > Wallace, ks.
  >
  >
  > On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
  >
  >> Hi Vaughn.  When the office deal came out, remember, they have two 
  >> versions
  >> of Window-Eyes that you can get.  The free version, with office, and the
  >> paid for version which would give you the tech support.
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
  >> Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
  >> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:46 PM
  >> To: 'ukekearu...@valtdnet.com'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
  >> Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account
  >>
  >> I feel that the key point as this relates to Window-eyes is missed: 
  >> if you
  >> don't pay - you can presume to not get. The Window-Eyes for Office 
  >> deal has
  >> meant that there is no cash to fix long standing problems or to 
  >> develop new
  >> features.
  >>
  >> People who make a business choice to develop tools which make our lives
  >> better do also have to live.  Although I will always remain unhappy with
  >> current developments, the software engineers who continue to develop 
  >> screen
  >> readers are tradable - they can sell their skills to someone else.
  >>
  >> I do believe that the virtual monopoly on screen readers especially for
  >> those who are employed is a bad thng.  But - it is what we have, and it
  >> might be that there is now a huge barrier which prevents others from
  >> offering choice to consumers.
  >> Tough as it is: we have to make spending choices, and certainly, if
  >> financial assistance is there - take it.  But: someone produces and 
  >> sells,
  >> someone else buys and consumes.
  >>
  >> Vaughan.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: Talk
  >> [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] 
  >> On
  >> Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
  >> Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:34 p.m.
  >> To: 'Tony C'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
  >> Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account
  >>
  >> Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are 
  >> pretty
  >> happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of 
  >> deceitful
  >> dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are 
  >> always
  >> at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!
  >>
  >> If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would 
  >> have
  >> been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With 
  >> impunity and
  >> flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
  >> Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V 
  >> F O
  >> Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?
  >>
  >> Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from 
  >> complying with
  >> the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
  >> noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
  >> especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes 
  >> watching.
  >>
  >> Sincerely,
  >> Olusegun
  >> Denver, Colorado
  >>
  >>
  >> ---
  >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
  >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
  >>
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  >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
  >> author
  >> and do 

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Singing Sparrow via Talk]

Sometimes i wonder what microsoft really saw in window eyes in the first 
place?
I mean they could have advanced narrater to the point it is today with 
in windows 10 and made it work fluently with all windowsoperating systems.

On 3/17/2017 7:57 AM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:

Yep, and we don't know what microsoft was paying for the product.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:

Hi Vaughn.  When the office deal came out, remember, they have two 
versions

of Window-Eyes that you can get.  The free version, with office, and the
paid for version which would give you the tech support.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:46 PM
To: 'ukekearu...@valtdnet.com'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

I feel that the key point as this relates to Window-eyes is missed: 
if you
don't pay - you can presume to not get. The Window-Eyes for Office 
deal has
meant that there is no cash to fix long standing problems or to 
develop new

features.

People who make a business choice to develop tools which make our lives
better do also have to live.  Although I will always remain unhappy with
current developments, the software engineers who continue to develop 
screen

readers are tradable - they can sell their skills to someone else.

I do believe that the virtual monopoly on screen readers especially for
those who are employed is a bad thng.  But - it is what we have, and it
might be that there is now a huge barrier which prevents others from
offering choice to consumers.
Tough as it is: we have to make spending choices, and certainly, if
financial assistance is there - take it.  But: someone produces and 
sells,

someone else buys and consumes.

Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On

Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:34 p.m.
To: 'Tony C'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are 
pretty
happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of 
deceitful
dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are 
always

at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!

If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would 
have
been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With 
impunity and

flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V 
F O

Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?

Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from 
complying with

the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes 
watching.


Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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author and do not necessarily represent those of 

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

Think about this?

You can get a iphone and APH — Orbit Reader 20 for a lot less money than a 
Notetaker?


-Original Message- 
From: Vaughan Dodd

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 2:44 PM
To: 'Russ Kiehne' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

I'm similar: IPhone is the device of choice.  Might actually get an Ipad. 
Add a braille display, which isn't carried if not needed, and for personal 
use - mainstream devices offer so much promise.  Not so for me at work 
though.


Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Russ Kiehne via Talk

Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:09 a.m.
To: Reeva Webb; Window-Eyes Discussion List; Dennis Long
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader stream 
first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It has more 
volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does everything they do 
and a lot more.


-Original Message-
From: Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in the 
past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a 
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook and 
soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't have to 
spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening with zt 
fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm seriously 
considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find myself using 
my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.



"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised 
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho


Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a touch 
screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that 
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of

time.


-Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

Greetings all.

I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
We are promised CSUN updates in April.

In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible

information sources.


Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain
blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.

One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that
although often people exchange useful information, the leadership
fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its
developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on
the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique
VFO's

behaviours.


Vaughan.


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

I was one of lthose who thought I would never want a touch screen device.  I 
started llistening to a podcast about the ipod touch.  The more I listened, 
I said to myself, I want one.  I was amazed with what Apple  did with 
accessibility on a touch screen device.  So in 2010, I bought a ipod touch 
4th generation and Haven't looked back.  I like the fact I can buy a off the 
shelf device and do everything I would do with a specialized player and a 
whole lot ;more.


-Original Message- 
From: Butch Bussen

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:11 AM
To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb ; Dennis Long
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
 I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
via Talk wrote:

In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader stream 
first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It has more 
volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does everything they do 
and a lot more.


-Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in 
the

past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening 
with

zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>

wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]

On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a 
touch

screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


 I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
 become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
 things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
 for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
 phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
 searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
 of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of

time.


 -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
 Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
 To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
 Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

 Greetings all.

 I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
 We are promised CSUN updates in April.

 In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
 going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
 pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
 leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible

information sources.


 Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain
 blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it 
iehter.


 One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that
 although often people exchange useful information, the leadership
 fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its
 developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on
 the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's

behaviours.


 Vaughan.

 ---
 This email and any attachments may contain information that is
 confidential and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the
 intended recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution or
 duplication of this email and attachments is prohibited. If you have
 received this email in error please notify the author immediately and
 erase all copies of the

RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Butch Bussen via Talk]

Yep, and we don't know what microsoft was paying for the product.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 
16 Mar 2017, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:



Hi Vaughn.  When the office deal came out, remember, they have two versions
of Window-Eyes that you can get.  The free version, with office, and the
paid for version which would give you the tech support.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:46 PM
To: 'ukekearu...@valtdnet.com'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

I feel that the key point as this relates to Window-eyes is missed: if you
don't pay - you can presume to not get. The Window-Eyes for Office deal has
meant that there is no cash to fix long standing problems or to develop new
features.

People who make a business choice to develop tools which make our lives
better do also have to live.  Although I will always remain unhappy with
current developments, the software engineers who continue to develop screen
readers are tradable - they can sell their skills to someone else.

I do believe that the virtual monopoly on screen readers especially for
those who are employed is a bad thng.  But - it is what we have, and it
might be that there is now a huge barrier which prevents others from
offering choice to consumers.
Tough as it is: we have to make spending choices, and certainly, if
financial assistance is there - take it.  But: someone produces and sells,
someone else buys and consumes.

Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:34 p.m.
To: 'Tony C'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful
dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always
at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!

If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and
flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?

Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with
the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Rick Thomas via Talk]

I agree.
Our Country is nuts  brainwashed when it comes to Capitalism, doesn't really
practice it, but  uses the concepts to route ever larger amounts of money
and assets to the top 1 percent at the cost of the other 99 percent of us.
The Middle class is dying, will die at an even faster pace going forward,
and those like the sick and disabled are being left for dead in our modern
U.S. economic system.
There are changes brewing and I wonder how long before it erupts into civil
violence and disobedience.
The disabled community talks and communicates via the computer but until,
unless, boots on the ground do something to hit the mainstream media nothing
will get better while the Middle Class is losing jobs, income power and
civil rights which will be the main theme of any civil actions that are
media worthy.
I don't want to get political but everything is indeed political in the end
so I will drop it here and just let things play out doing my own thing to
try and facillitate change.
Rick USA


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+ofbgmail=mi.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Reg Webb via Talk
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 4:03 AM
To: Tony C <tch...@mediacombb.net>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

I happen to think, on a humanitarian rather than on a political level, that
some goods and services, defined as essential, should be shielded from
market forces.  I would include health care (I'm British), and access
technology.
In this category, people like clinicians and the developers of technology
should be paid well for their expertise, but the price should not be armped
up by supply and demand, scarcity value, ETC.  The prospect of somene else's
profit margin, over and above proper salaries, preventing someone with
cancer from receiving treatment, or a blind person being able to have the
means of cummunicating in a digital world, is obscene.  And "That's just the
way it is" is defeatist talk in my opinion.

--
Reg
<regw...@btinternet.com>

On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 19:17:48 -0500
Tony C via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:

> Yeah! but the prices make it to where a fair number of the blind can't buy
a screen reader. I know there's a lot of work that goes into creating and
keeping a screen reader up to date. But, I also know there are a lot of
Government substities for such. Just like the Lighthouse's get donations,
grants, and tax exempt status, and yet there products cost twice as much as
open market products. Tell me this, how many of the top 10 people at Freedom
scifi, or VFO are actually blind??? These top 10 are also the top wage,
bonus, expense, earners, and so on and so forth.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Nick Sarames via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:33 PM
> To: Evan Reese ; Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Pamela Dominguez
> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
> 
> To be fair, the disparity between the price of a screen reader and the 
> price of a desk top has everything to do with supply and demand.  
> Fewer consumers are purchasing desk tops.  Until most screen reader 
> users replace their screen readers with Iphone-like products, the 
> price of a screen reader will likely not decrease much.
> 
> On 3/16/2017 5:35 PM, Evan Reese via Talk wrote:
> > Hmmm, how about a screenreader company that charges more for their 
> > product than a decent desktop these days? Some people might call 
> > that being "penalized" simply to access their PC, something any 
> > sighted person can do right out of the box.
> > Evan
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk
> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 5:02 PM
> > To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
> >
> > Yes.  Somebody said about something:  "The only way it's hard is if 
> > you make it hard".  Well, it seems to me that that is quight 
> > subjective.  He is speaking from his own experience.  Those of us 
> > who don't rush to get every little new thing don't think that way.  
> > I don't see why we should be penalized because we don't want a touch 
> > screen or whatever the newest > thing is.  Pam.
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:11 PM
> > To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> > Cc: Reeva Webb
> > Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
> >
> > I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal 
> > with touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an 
> > earlier note, the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and 
> > your i whatevers think they solve the world's access proble

RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Rick Thomas via Talk]

Hi: My concern is going forward and how the screen readers will work with
the new 2017 windows version The Creators.
It has allot of new features like virtual reality and other things of a
visual nature according to one fellow I talked to recently.
Will JAWS and, or, WindowEyes be able to handle the new windows platform
without major changes?
With the back-out of staff from the WindowEyes project this could be a real
problem if the new windows is a major upgrade for them.
Rick USA
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+ofbgmail=mi.rr@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:46 PM
To: 'ukekearu...@valtdnet.com' <ukekearu...@valtdnet.com>; 'Window-Eyes
Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

I feel that the key point as this relates to Window-eyes is missed: if you
don't pay - you can presume to not get. The Window-Eyes for Office deal has
meant that there is no cash to fix long standing problems or to develop new
features.  

People who make a business choice to develop tools which make our lives
better do also have to live.  Although I will always remain unhappy with
current developments, the software engineers who continue to develop screen
readers are tradable - they can sell their skills to someone else.

I do believe that the virtual monopoly on screen readers especially for
those who are employed is a bad thng.  But - it is what we have, and it
might be that there is now a huge barrier which prevents others from
offering choice to consumers.
Tough as it is: we have to make spending choices, and certainly, if
financial assistance is there - take it.  But: someone produces and sells,
someone else buys and consumes.

Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:34 p.m.
To: 'Tony C'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful
dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always
at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!  

If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and
flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?  

Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with
the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Reg Webb via Talk]

Well said sir.  That's more like it.
-- 
Reg


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 20:34:25 -0600
"Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk" 
 wrote:

> Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
> happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful
> dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always
> at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!  
> 
> If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
> been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and
> flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
> Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
> Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?  
> 
> Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with
> the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
> noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
> especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Olusegun
> Denver, Colorado
> 
> 
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> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Reg Webb via Talk]

I happen to think, on a humanitarian rather than on a political level,
that some goods and services, defined as essential, should be shielded
from market forces.  I would include health care (I'm British), and
access technology.
In this category, people like clinicians and the developers of
technology should be paid well for their expertise, but the price should
not be armped up by supply and demand, scarcity value, ETC.  The
prospect of somene else's profit margin, over and above proper salaries,
preventing someone with cancer from receiving treatment, or a blind
person being able to have the means of cummunicating in a digital world,
is obscene.  And "That's just the way it is" is defeatist talk in my
opinion.

-- 
Reg
<regw...@btinternet.com>

On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 19:17:48 -0500
Tony C via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:

> Yeah! but the prices make it to where a fair number of the blind can't buy a 
> screen reader. I know there's a lot of work that goes into creating and 
> keeping a screen reader up to date. But, I also know there are a lot of 
> Government substities for such. Just like the Lighthouse's get donations, 
> grants, and tax exempt status, and yet there products cost twice as much as 
> open market products. Tell me this, how many of the top 10 people at Freedom 
> scifi, or VFO are actually blind??? These top 10 are also the top wage, 
> bonus, expense, earners, and so on and so forth.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Nick Sarames via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:33 PM
> To: Evan Reese ; Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Pamela Dominguez
> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
> 
> To be fair, the disparity between the price of a screen reader and the
> price of a desk top has everything to do with supply and demand.  Fewer
> consumers are purchasing desk tops.  Until most screen reader users
> replace their screen readers with Iphone-like products, the price of a
> screen reader will likely not decrease much.
> 
> On 3/16/2017 5:35 PM, Evan Reese via Talk wrote:
> > Hmmm, how about a screenreader company that charges more for their
> > product than a decent desktop these days? Some people might call that
> > being "penalized" simply to access their PC, something any sighted
> > person can do right out of the box.
> > Evan
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk
> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 5:02 PM
> > To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
> >
> > Yes.  Somebody said about something:  "The only way it's hard is if you
> > make
> > it hard".  Well, it seems to me that that is quight subjective.  He is
> > speaking from his own experience.  Those of us who don't rush to get every
> > little new thing don't think that way.  I don't see why we should be
> > penalized because we don't want a touch screen or whatever the newest > 
> > thing
> > is.  Pam.
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:11 PM
> > To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> > Cc: Reeva Webb
> > Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
> >
> > I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
> > touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
> > the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
> > think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
> >  I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
> > 73
> > Butch
> > WA0VJR
> > Node 3148
> > Wallace, ks.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
> > via Talk wrote:
> >
> >> In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader
> >> stream first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It
> >> has more volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does
> >> everything they do and a lot more.
> >>
> >> -Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
> >> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
> >> Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account
> >>
> >> You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had
> >> in the
> >> past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
> >> electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
> >> and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
> >> have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happeni

RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Vaughan Dodd via Talk]

The same Microsoft which screwed screen readers out of the development of Edge.

Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Loy via Talk
Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:53 p.m.
To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

And the free version for Office was subsidized by Microsoft.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Sky Mundell via Talk 
  To: 'Vaughan Dodd' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
  Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:53 PM
  Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account


  Hi Vaughn.  When the office deal came out, remember, they have two versions
  of Window-Eyes that you can get.  The free version, with office, and the
  paid for version which would give you the tech support.

  -Original Message-
  From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
  Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
  Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:46 PM
  To: 'ukekearu...@valtdnet.com'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
  Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

  I feel that the key point as this relates to Window-eyes is missed: if you
  don't pay - you can presume to not get. The Window-Eyes for Office deal has
  meant that there is no cash to fix long standing problems or to develop new
  features.  

  People who make a business choice to develop tools which make our lives
  better do also have to live.  Although I will always remain unhappy with
  current developments, the software engineers who continue to develop screen
  readers are tradable - they can sell their skills to someone else.

  I do believe that the virtual monopoly on screen readers especially for
  those who are employed is a bad thng.  But - it is what we have, and it
  might be that there is now a huge barrier which prevents others from
  offering choice to consumers.
  Tough as it is: we have to make spending choices, and certainly, if
  financial assistance is there - take it.  But: someone produces and sells,
  someone else buys and consumes.

  Vaughan.



  -Original Message-
  From: Talk
  [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
  Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
  Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:34 p.m.
  To: 'Tony C'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
  Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

  Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
  happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful
  dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always
  at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!  

  If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
  been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and
  flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
  Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
  Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?  

  Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with
  the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
  noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
  especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.

  Sincerely,
  Olusegun
  Denver, Colorado


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Kenneth Son via Talk]

Hello list.

Speaking of holding VFO accountable,

Where is any information of the update of Window Eyes for the new 
release of Windows 10 soon to be released?


I have not seen this as of yet.

I want to get a new computer in April but if I don't know for sure if 
Window Eyes works with it, I will have to hold on to this windows 8 
computer until I hear of any release of a version that will work with 
this new update of Windows 10 Creator adition.


If Window Eyes is truly dead, I wish VFO would come out with an upgrade 
plan to Jaws so I can get on with it.


Kenneth Son.



On 3/16/2017 19:33, Nick Sarames via Talk wrote:

To be fair, the disparity between the price of a screen reader and the
price of a desk top has everything to do with supply and demand.  Fewer
consumers are purchasing desk tops.  Until most screen reader users
replace their screen readers with Iphone-like products, the price of a
screen reader will likely not decrease much.

On 3/16/2017 5:35 PM, Evan Reese via Talk wrote:

Hmmm, how about a screenreader company that charges more for their
product than a decent desktop these days? Some people might call that
being "penalized" simply to access their PC, something any sighted
person can do right out of the box.
Evan

-Original Message- From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 5:02 PM
To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Yes.  Somebody said about something:  "The only way it's hard is if you
make
it hard".  Well, it seems to me that that is quight subjective.  He is
speaking from his own experience.  Those of us who don't rush to get every
little new thing don't think that way.  I don't see why we should be
penalized because we don't want a touch screen or whatever the newest thing
is.  Pam.

-Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:11 PM
To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
  I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
via Talk wrote:


In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader
stream first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It
has more volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does
everything they do and a lot more.

-Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had
in the
past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening
with
zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk"
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a
touch
screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


  I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
  become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
  things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
  for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
  phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
  searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
  of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of

time.

  -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
  Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
  To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
  Subject: Failu

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Loy via Talk]

And the free version for Office was subsidized by Microsoft.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Sky Mundell via Talk 
  To: 'Vaughan Dodd' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
  Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:53 PM
  Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account


  Hi Vaughn.  When the office deal came out, remember, they have two versions
  of Window-Eyes that you can get.  The free version, with office, and the
  paid for version which would give you the tech support.

  -Original Message-
  From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
  Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
  Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:46 PM
  To: 'ukekearu...@valtdnet.com'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
  Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

  I feel that the key point as this relates to Window-eyes is missed: if you
  don't pay - you can presume to not get. The Window-Eyes for Office deal has
  meant that there is no cash to fix long standing problems or to develop new
  features.  

  People who make a business choice to develop tools which make our lives
  better do also have to live.  Although I will always remain unhappy with
  current developments, the software engineers who continue to develop screen
  readers are tradable - they can sell their skills to someone else.

  I do believe that the virtual monopoly on screen readers especially for
  those who are employed is a bad thng.  But - it is what we have, and it
  might be that there is now a huge barrier which prevents others from
  offering choice to consumers.
  Tough as it is: we have to make spending choices, and certainly, if
  financial assistance is there - take it.  But: someone produces and sells,
  someone else buys and consumes.

  Vaughan.



  -Original Message-
  From: Talk
  [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
  Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
  Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:34 p.m.
  To: 'Tony C'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
  Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

  Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
  happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful
  dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always
  at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!  

  If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
  been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and
  flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
  Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
  Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?  

  Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with
  the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
  noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
  especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.

  Sincerely,
  Olusegun
  Denver, Colorado


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RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

Hi Vaughn.  When the office deal came out, remember, they have two versions
of Window-Eyes that you can get.  The free version, with office, and the
paid for version which would give you the tech support.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:46 PM
To: 'ukekearu...@valtdnet.com'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

I feel that the key point as this relates to Window-eyes is missed: if you
don't pay - you can presume to not get. The Window-Eyes for Office deal has
meant that there is no cash to fix long standing problems or to develop new
features.  

People who make a business choice to develop tools which make our lives
better do also have to live.  Although I will always remain unhappy with
current developments, the software engineers who continue to develop screen
readers are tradable - they can sell their skills to someone else.

I do believe that the virtual monopoly on screen readers especially for
those who are employed is a bad thng.  But - it is what we have, and it
might be that there is now a huge barrier which prevents others from
offering choice to consumers.
Tough as it is: we have to make spending choices, and certainly, if
financial assistance is there - take it.  But: someone produces and sells,
someone else buys and consumes.

Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:34 p.m.
To: 'Tony C'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful
dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always
at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!  

If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and
flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?  

Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with
the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Vaughan Dodd via Talk]

I feel that the key point as this relates to Window-eyes is missed: if you 
don't pay - you can presume to not get. The Window-Eyes for Office deal has 
meant that there is no cash to fix long standing problems or to develop new 
features.  

People who make a business choice to develop tools which make our lives better 
do also have to live.  Although I will always remain unhappy with current 
developments, the software engineers who continue to develop screen readers are 
tradable - they can sell their skills to someone else.

I do believe that the virtual monopoly on screen readers especially for those 
who are employed is a bad thng.  But - it is what we have, and it might be that 
there is now a huge barrier which prevents others from offering choice to 
consumers.
Tough as it is: we have to make spending choices, and certainly, if financial 
assistance is there - take it.  But: someone produces and sells, someone else 
buys and consumes.

Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Friday, 17 March 2017 3:34 p.m.
To: 'Tony C'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty happy 
being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful 
dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always at 
the ready to fire and knock the blind out!  

If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have been 
cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and flagrant 
disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O 
Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?  

Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with the 
court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk noteteller 
they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless especially in a 
business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk]

Tony, I could not agree more!  It seems to me that blind folks are pretty
happy being ripped off.  Petitions fall on deaf ears, elements of deceitful
dishonesty beat down like hurricanes and tornados, and stun guns are always
at the ready to fire and knock the blind out!  

If the goings-on had happened in the mainstream, antitrust law would have
been cited and everything would have gone under quietly.  With impunity and
flagrant disregard, the blind continue to borrow the phrase from Animal
Farm:  "Four legs good, two legs bad!"  Milk on Freedom Scientific, V F O
Group, AI Square, ...  Did I miss any?  

Hmm, anyone knows what's holding the U.S. Treasury back from complying with
the court order by making the dollar bill more accessible?  The junk
noteteller they choose to hand me is utterly worthless and useless
especially in a business environment where I have more prying eyes watching.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Terri Pannett via Talk]

I agree with you, Butch.  I never got used to the Android phone, even 
with the BrailleEdge connected to it.  I wish people wouldn't 
automatically think that because they can use their I devices and 
Android devices that Apple and Android is good for everyone.


Also, I hate voice commands!  The stupid phones don't understand them 
most of the time.



Terri Amateur radio call sign KF6CA
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

It's not about being penalized - it's about what the market will provide.

On 3/16/2017 5:02 PM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
> Yes.  Somebody said about something:  "The only way it's hard is if you
> make it hard".  Well, it seems to me that that is quight subjective.  He
> is speaking from his own experience.  Those of us who don't rush to get
> every little new thing don't think that way.  I don't see why we should
> be penalized because we don't want a touch screen or whatever the newest
> thing is.  Pam.
>
> -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:11 PM
> To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Reeva Webb
> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>
> I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
> touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
> the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
> think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
>  I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
> via Talk wrote:
>
>> In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader
>> stream first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It
>> has more volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does
>> everything they do and a lot more.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
>> Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>
>> You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had
>> in the
>> past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
>> electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
>> and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
>> have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening
>> with
>> zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
>> seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
>> myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.
>>
>>
>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
>> night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho
>>
>> Reeva
>>
>> On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk"
>> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with you completely!
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
>> On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
>> To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>
>> Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a
>> touch
>> screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
>> worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:
>>
>>>  I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
>>>  become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
>>>  things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
>>>  for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
>>>  phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
>>>  searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
>>>  of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of
>> time.
>>>
>>>  -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
>>>  To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
>>>  Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>>
>>>  Greetings all.
>>>
>>>  I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
>>>  We are promised CSUN updates in April.
>>>
>>>  In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
>>>  going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
>>>  pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
>>>  leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible
>> informati

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

To be fair, the disparity between the price of a screen reader and the 
price of a desk top has everything to do with supply and demand.  Fewer 
consumers are purchasing desk tops.  Until most screen reader users 
replace their screen readers with Iphone-like products, the price of a 
screen reader will likely not decrease much.

On 3/16/2017 5:35 PM, Evan Reese via Talk wrote:
> Hmmm, how about a screenreader company that charges more for their
> product than a decent desktop these days? Some people might call that
> being "penalized" simply to access their PC, something any sighted
> person can do right out of the box.
> Evan
>
> -Original Message- From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 5:02 PM
> To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>
> Yes.  Somebody said about something:  "The only way it's hard is if you
> make
> it hard".  Well, it seems to me that that is quight subjective.  He is
> speaking from his own experience.  Those of us who don't rush to get every
> little new thing don't think that way.  I don't see why we should be
> penalized because we don't want a touch screen or whatever the newest thing
> is.  Pam.
>
> -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:11 PM
> To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Cc: Reeva Webb
> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>
> I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
> touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
> the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
> think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
>  I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
> via Talk wrote:
>
>> In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader
>> stream first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It
>> has more volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does
>> everything they do and a lot more.
>>
>> -----Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
>> Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>
>> You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had
>> in the
>> past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
>> electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
>> and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
>> have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening
>> with
>> zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
>> seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
>> myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.
>>
>>
>> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
>> night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho
>>
>> Reeva
>>
>> On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk"
>> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with you completely!
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
>> On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
>> To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
>>
>> Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a
>> touch
>> screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
>> worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:
>>
>>>  I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
>>>  become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
>>>  things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
>>>  for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
>>>  phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
>>>  searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
>>>  of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of
>> time.
>>>
>>&

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Evan Reese via Talk]

Hmmm, how about a screenreader company that charges more for their product 
than a decent desktop these days? Some people might call that being 
"penalized" simply to access their PC, something any sighted person can do 
right out of the box.

Evan

-Original Message- 
From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 5:02 PM
To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Yes.  Somebody said about something:  "The only way it's hard is if you make
it hard".  Well, it seems to me that that is quight subjective.  He is
speaking from his own experience.  Those of us who don't rush to get every
little new thing don't think that way.  I don't see why we should be
penalized because we don't want a touch screen or whatever the newest thing
is.  Pam.

-Original Message- 
From: Butch Bussen via Talk

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:11 PM
To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
 I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
via Talk wrote:

In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader stream 
first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It has more 
volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does everything they do 
and a lot more.


-Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in 
the

past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening 
with

zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>

wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]

On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a 
touch

screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


 I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
 become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
 things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
 for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
 phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
 searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
 of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of

time.


 -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
 Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
 To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
 Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

 Greetings all.

 I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
 We are promised CSUN updates in April.

 In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
 going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
 pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
 leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible

information sources.


 Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain
 blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it 
iehter.


 One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that
 although often people exchange useful information, the leadership
 fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its
 developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on
 the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's

behaviours.


 Vaughan.

 ---

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Pamela Dominguez via Talk]

Yes.  Somebody said about something:  "The only way it's hard is if you make 
it hard".  Well, it seems to me that that is quight subjective.  He is 
speaking from his own experience.  Those of us who don't rush to get every 
little new thing don't think that way.  I don't see why we should be 
penalized because we don't want a touch screen or whatever the newest thing 
is.  Pam.


-Original Message- 
From: Butch Bussen via Talk

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:11 PM
To: Russ Kiehne ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Reeva Webb
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with
touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note,
the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers
think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.
 I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne
via Talk wrote:

In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader stream 
first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It has more 
volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does everything they do 
and a lot more.


-Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in 
the

past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening 
with

zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>

wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]

On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a 
touch

screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


 I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
 become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
 things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
 for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
 phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
 searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
 of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of

time.


 -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
 Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
 To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
 Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

 Greetings all.

 I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
 We are promised CSUN updates in April.

 In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
 going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
 pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
 leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible

information sources.


 Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain
 blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it 
iehter.


 One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that
 although often people exchange useful information, the leadership
 fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its
 developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on
 the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's

behaviours.


 Vaughan.

 ---
 This email and any attachments may contain information that is
 confidential and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the
 intended recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution or
 duplication of this email and attachments is prohibited. If you have
 received this email in error please notify the author immediately and
 erase all copies of the email and attachments. The Ministry of Social
 Development accepts no responsibility for

Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Butch Bussen via Talk]

I understand that.  And that is great, for you.  I just can't deal with 
touch screens.  Give me buttons to push.  As I said in an earlier note, 
the same solution isn't for everyone.  You guys and your i whatevers 
think they solve the world's access problems.  Perhaps for some they do.

 I can't figure out how to run my IPod.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, Russ Kiehne 
via Talk wrote:


In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader stream 
first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It has more 
volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does everything they do and 
a lot more.


-Original Message- From: Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in the
past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening with
zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a touch
screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


 I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
 become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
 things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
 for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
 phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
 searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
 of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of

time.


 -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
 Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
 To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
 Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

 Greetings all.

 I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
 We are promised CSUN updates in April.

 In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
 going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
 pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
 leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible

information sources.


 Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain
 blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.

 One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that
 although often people exchange useful information, the leadership
 fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its
 developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on
 the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's

behaviours.


 Vaughan.


 ---
 This email and any attachments may contain information that is
 confidential and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the
 intended recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution or
 duplication of this email and attachments is prohibited. If you have
 received this email in error please notify the author immediately and
 erase all copies of the email and attachments. The Ministry of Social
 Development accepts no responsibility for changes made to this message or

attachments after transmission from the Ministry.


 ---
 ___
 Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
 author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

 For membership options, visit


http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/tch828%40media
combb.net.

 For subscription options, visit
 http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
 List archives can be found at
 http://lists.window-eyes.

RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Joseph Norton via Talk]

While I think this is a good thing, Narrator doesn't have near the
responsiveness that W.E. or JAWS has, though it's improving.  The main
reason for any of the actual screen-readers, like W.E. or JFW is the fact
that you can script for them and handle certain situations that Narrator
just can't handle.

Take for example the BARD Express program from NLS.

Actually, W.E. is the best working program with BARD Express.  In fact, BARD
Express works worst of all with Narrator and SuperNova.  Narrator, for sure,
still has a lot of work to do.


-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+joseph.norton=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Reeva Webb via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 2:54 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>; Dennis Long
<dennisl1...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in the
past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook and
soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't have to
spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening with zt
fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm seriously
considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find myself using
my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a touch
screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

> I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will 
> become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more 
> things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market 
> for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I 
> phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet 
> searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece 
> of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of
time.
>
> -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account
>
> Greetings all.
>
> I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
> We are promised CSUN updates in April.
>
> In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry 
> going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the 
> pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO 
> leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible
information sources.
>
> Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain 
> blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.
>
> One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that 
> although often people exchange useful information, the leadership 
> fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its 
> developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on 
> the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique 
> VFO's
behaviours.
>
> Vaughan.
>
>
> ---
> This email and any attachments may contain information that is 
> confidential and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the 
> intended recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution or 
> duplication of this email and attachments is prohibited. If you have 
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Tony C via Talk]

You know they make a rubber keyboard that you can roll up and is about the 
size of one of those little short umbrellas when it's rolled up and when 
unrolled is the size of a standard keyboard...


-Original Message- 
From: Pamela Dominguez via Talk

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 9:49 AM
To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Yes, I agree with you on that.  I don't have any touch screen devices.  I
think my laptop can be used in that way, but I am happy to say that it still
has a keyboard.  And when my cell phone goes, I will be getting another one
with buttons.  Pam.

-Original Message- 
From: Butch Bussen via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a
touch screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into
that worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for
everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will 
become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more things 
are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market for such 
special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I phone out of 
the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet searches, txt 
messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece of software that 
at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of time.


-Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

Greetings all.

I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.  We 
are promised CSUN updates in April.


In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry going 
through significant change, not to mention the demise of the pony express, 
the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO leadership suggests 
to me that we are being let down by credible information sources.


Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain blogs 
concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.


One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that 
although often people exchange useful information, the leadership fails to 
critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its developments in the 
specialty area of access.  The same seems true on the Windows side of the 
divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's behaviours.


Vaughan.


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Pamela Dominguez via Talk]

Yes, I agree with you on that.  I don't have any touch screen devices.  I 
think my laptop can be used in that way, but I am happy to say that it still 
has a keyboard.  And when my cell phone goes, I will be getting another one 
with buttons.  Pam.


-Original Message- 
From: Butch Bussen via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a
touch screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into
that worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for
everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will 
become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more things 
are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market for such 
special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I phone out of 
the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet searches, txt 
messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece of software that 
at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of time.


-Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

Greetings all.

I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.  We 
are promised CSUN updates in April.


In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry going 
through significant change, not to mention the demise of the pony express, 
the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO leadership suggests 
to me that we are being let down by credible information sources.


Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain blogs 
concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.


One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that 
although often people exchange useful information, the leadership fails to 
critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its developments in the 
specialty area of access.  The same seems true on the Windows side of the 
divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's behaviours.


Vaughan.


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

In my case, my ipad mini 4 has taken the place of my victor reader stream 
first generation, Booksense standard and plextalk pocket.  It has more 
volume, better battery life and better sound.  It does everything they do 
and a lot more.


-Original Message- 
From: Reeva Webb via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:54 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Dennis Long
Subject: RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in the
past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening with
zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.


"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

I agree with you completely!

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a touch
screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of

time.


-Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

Greetings all.

I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
We are promised CSUN updates in April.

In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible

information sources.


Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain
blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.

One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that
although often people exchange useful information, the leadership
fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its
developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on
the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's

behaviours.


Vaughan.


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received this email in error please notify the author immediately and
erase all copies of the email and attachments. The Ministry of Social
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Mike Rogers via Talk]

I just got an android in Nov.  I really like it and use talk back to send 
tests.  It's not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction.  I'm76 and 
fairly computer stupid, but am learning.  I put a braille dot where the speaker 
phone button is, and it works pretty well.  Doesn't replace W.E., but is handy.



www.harmonicaworkshops.com
www.woodeneyemusic.com


On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 01:54:26 -0500
Reeva Webb via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:

> You know, this gets me thinking esp. With the conversations I've had in the
> past week. We're getting what we wanted for years. We can go into a
> electronics store and buy a iphone, a android phone, a mac, a chromebook
> and soon windows computers  with accessibility out of the box. You don't
> have to spend extra money unless you want to.  While what is happening with
> zt fusion, something I spent my own money to buy makes me mad. I'm
> seriously considering just going fully with mainstream products. I find
> myself using my android devices more and pulling out my laptop less.
> 
> 
> "the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
> night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho
> 
> Reeva
> 
> On Mar 16, 2017 1:18 AM, "Dennis Long via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> wrote:
> 
> I agree with you completely!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:12 PM
> To: Tony C; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Failure to hold VFO to account
> 
> Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a touch
> screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into that
> worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for everyone
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
> 
> 
> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:
> 
> > I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will
> > become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more
> > things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market
> > for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I
> > phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet
> > searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece
> > of software that at best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of
> time.
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
> > To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> > Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account
> >
> > Greetings all.
> >
> > I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.
> > We are promised CSUN updates in April.
> >
> > In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry
> > going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the
> > pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO
> > leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible
> information sources.
> >
> > Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain
> > blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.
> >
> > One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that
> > although often people exchange useful information, the leadership
> > fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its
> > developments in the specialty area of access.  The same seems true on
> > the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's
> behaviours.
> >
> > Vaughan.
> >
> >
> > ---
> > This email and any attachments may contain information that is
> > confidential and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the
> > intended recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution or
> > duplication of this email and attachments is prohibited. If you have
> > received this email in error please notify the author immediately and
> > erase all copies of the email and attachments. The Ministry of Social
> > Development accepts no responsibility for changes made to this message or
> attachments after transmission from the Ministry.
> >
> > ---
> > ___
> > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
> > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
> >
>

RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk]

Could be that my fingers don't get cold enough!  But I sure do use a
touchscreen phone with cold fingers!  There's still good old winter here in
my Denver bush, though today's weather will be nearly 60Plus degrees F.  But
I'm constantly standing at a bus stop, and, when my bus is late, I'm having
to check and double check to be sure I had not missed it.  I have to do this
on the phone with cold fingers and sometimes with gloves on as well.  So, it
works for me, but everyone's mileages can and will indeed vary!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Matthew Chao via Talk]

Personally, I miss the phones with physical buttons/keyboards. Try using 
a touchscreen with cold fingers and see how far you get.  One size does 
not fit all.--Matt, N1IBB.





On 3/15/2017 11:12 PM, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a 
touch screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall 
into that worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for 
everyone

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology 
will become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and 
more things are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The 
market for such special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. 
Heck, the I phone out of the box gives the blind user access to GPS, 
internet searches, txt messageing, etc, without the need of an 
expensive piece of software that at best in moderately useable. It's 
just a matter of time.


-Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

Greetings all.

I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from 
AFB.  We are promised CSUN updates in April.


In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry 
going through significant change, not to mention the demise of the 
pony express, the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO 
leadership suggests to me that we are being let down by credible 
information sources.


Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain 
blogs concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it 
iehter.


One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that 
although often people exchange useful information, the leadership 
fails to critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its 
developments in the specialty area of access. The same seems true on 
the Windows side of the divide - with no one prepared to critique 
VFO's behaviours.


Vaughan.


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RE: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Vaughan,

Check out the latest Ctrl Walt Delete podcast for a critique of the gang of 
five who have consumers by the short and curlies:

http://bit.ly/2mL7GXO

Enjoy,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 5:06 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

Greetings all.

I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.  We are 
promised CSUN updates in April.

In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry going through 
significant change, not to mention the demise of the pony express, the failure 
of someone to get down and dirty with VFO leadership suggests to me that we are 
being let down by credible information sources.

Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain blogs 
concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.

One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that although 
often people exchange useful information, the leadership fails to critique the 
shortcomings of Apple with respect to its developments in the specialty area of 
access.  The same seems true on the Windows side of the divide - with no one 
prepared to critique VFO's behaviours.

Vaughan.


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dissemination, distribution or duplication of this email and attachments is 
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immediately and erase all copies of the email and attachments. The Ministry of 
Social Development accepts no responsibility for changes made to this message 
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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Butch Bussen via Talk]

Problem is you i phone users think everyone can use one and can use a 
touch screen.  They are not for everyone.  I think blind folks fall into 
that worse than any group.  if it works for me, it is great for 
everyone

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will become 
a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more things are 
becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market for such special 
items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I phone out of the box 
gives the blind user access to GPS, internet searches, txt messageing, etc, 
without the need of an expensive piece of software that at best in moderately 
useable. It's just a matter of time.


-Original Message- From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

Greetings all.

I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.  We 
are promised CSUN updates in April.


In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry going 
through significant change, not to mention the demise of the pony express, 
the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO leadership suggests to 
me that we are being let down by credible information sources.


Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain blogs 
concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.


One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that 
although often people exchange useful information, the leadership fails to 
critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its developments in the 
specialty area of access.  The same seems true on the Windows side of the 
divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's behaviours.


Vaughan.


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Re: Failure to hold VFO to account

[Tony C via Talk]

I really think that in the very near future "adaptive" technology will 
become a thing of the past. We aren't there yet, but more and more things 
are becoming voice activated, and voice commanded. The market for such 
special items as Window-eyes and Jaws is waining. Heck, the I phone out of 
the box gives the blind user access to GPS, internet searches, txt 
messageing, etc, without the need of an expensive piece of software that at 
best in moderately useable. It's just a matter of time.


-Original Message- 
From: Vaughan Dodd via Talk

Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:05 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: Failure to hold VFO to account

Greetings all.

I've just flicked through the latest edition of Access World from AFB.  We 
are promised CSUN updates in April.


In the 21st  Century, and with our accessible technology industry going 
through significant change, not to mention the demise of the pony express, 
the failure of someone to get down and dirty with VFO leadership suggests to 
me that we are being let down by credible information sources.


Quite reasonably, AFB promotes its sponsorship of the Blind Bargain blogs 
concerning CSUN events and exhibits, but these don't cut it iehter.


One of the disappointing things about services like Apple Vis is that 
although often people exchange useful information, the leadership fails to 
critique the shortcomings of Apple with respect to its developments in the 
specialty area of access.  The same seems true on the Windows side of the 
divide - with no one prepared to critique VFO's behaviours.


Vaughan.


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attachments is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please 
notify the author immediately and erase all copies of the email and 
attachments. The Ministry of Social Development accepts no responsibility 
for changes made to this message or attachments after transmission from the 
Ministry.


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