RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Dennis Long via Talk]

I agree completely.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Diana Kube via Talk
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2017 4:12 AM
To: wohlg...@gmail.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

What actual evidence exists for this rampant conjecture. I continue to get
updates for both apps and WE. I also get reply's to support requests. What I
see happening here, in the absence of any actual proof, is some people who
either have too little to do or have established a deliberate campaign to
undermine WE.

I am happy to look at any actual evidence, if anyone can provide this,  but
until then I will continue to use WE and not get myself worked up about what
may or may not happen in the future.

So if there are press releases, communications from the company, or
termination of service notices, please post them on the list so that we can
make decisions about what to do next.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+kube=netspace.net...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Jim via Talk
Sent: Sunday, 2 April 2017 2:21 AM
To: Butch Bussen <but...@shellworld.net>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Correvtion, I talked to Dave about two seek ago so there is more than just
one left.

Jim


On 01-Apr-17 11:59, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
> Personally, I won't buy jaws.  If WE becomes unuseable, I'll go to n v 
> d a.  I've donated to them before and will do so again.  How many of 
> us out there have unfulfilled s m a's?  The longer they delay, the 
> longer they can put off refunding any money or giving us something.
> Why on earth would they develop and sell two screen readers?  Only one 
> still there from the gw days is Doug, and his hands are tied.  I've 
> still got systems running xp and those run window-eyes just fine.  I 
> think many of us forget to give GW credit for the fine work they did 
> over the years and their great customer support.  I've had a few 
> dealings with Freedom in the past and my experience has been their 
> customer support was terrible.  I forget what the thing was called, 
> but was a note taker with gps and all that.  A friend gave me his old 
> one as the v a bought him a new one.  He had let the batteries run 
> clear down, and the thing lost all of its marbles.  I couldn't get any 
> help from freedom to get up and running again unless the original 
> purchaser contacted them, and the "original purchaser" didn't even 
> work for the v a any more.  I finally threw a couple grand worth of 
> stuff in the dumpster.  As the old 4 preps song went, "more money for 
> you and me."  No jaws for me at any price.
>
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Sat, 1 Apr 2017, Loy via Talk wrote:
>
>> I agree, I depend on WE every day and I can't afford JAWS. It's been
>> 9 months since the acquisition of AISquared and not one word from VFO 
>> about WE.They are not being honest with all the WE users by being 
>> silent. I will continue to use WE as long as Windows doesn't change 
>> where it will no longer work.
>>  - Original Message -
>>  From: Rod Hutton via Talk
>>  To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:58 AM
>>  Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>>
>>
>>  Hi Vaughan,
>>
>>  I believe it is a matter of semantics.
>>  The phrase "not a going concern," to me, implies it is not relevant 
>> in my life on a daily basis.
>>  For me, this is not true, since I use it every day.
>>  Personally, I find this type of language discouraging since I, and 
>> many others on this this, depend on this screen reader for our 
>> livelihood and are continuing to use it.
>>  In addition, and, again, personally, I find this discussion tiresome 
>> and annoying.
>>  This is just my feeling.
>>
>>  Respectfully,
>>
>>  Rod
>>
>>  -----Original Message-
>>  From: Talk
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
>>  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 4:02 AM
>>  To: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
>> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>>  Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>>
>>  I think it will still be an option - but some of you are missing the
>>  point: it is no longer a practical option for many people.
>>
>>
>>  The evidence does not support on-going development.
>>
>>  Evidence includes: bugs not fi

RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Diana Kube via Talk]

What actual evidence exists for this rampant conjecture. I continue to get
updates for both apps and WE. I also get reply's to support requests. What I
see happening here, in the absence of any actual proof, is some people who
either have too little to do or have established a deliberate campaign to
undermine WE.

I am happy to look at any actual evidence, if anyone can provide this,  but
until then I will continue to use WE and not get myself worked up about what
may or may not happen in the future.

So if there are press releases, communications from the company, or
termination of service notices, please post them on the list so that we can
make decisions about what to do next.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+kube=netspace.net...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Jim via Talk
Sent: Sunday, 2 April 2017 2:21 AM
To: Butch Bussen <but...@shellworld.net>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Correvtion, I talked to Dave about two seek ago so there is more than just
one left.

Jim


On 01-Apr-17 11:59, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
> Personally, I won't buy jaws.  If WE becomes unuseable, I'll go to n v 
> d a.  I've donated to them before and will do so again.  How many of 
> us out there have unfulfilled s m a's?  The longer they delay, the 
> longer they can put off refunding any money or giving us something.
> Why on earth would they develop and sell two screen readers?  Only one 
> still there from the gw days is Doug, and his hands are tied.  I've 
> still got systems running xp and those run window-eyes just fine.  I 
> think many of us forget to give GW credit for the fine work they did 
> over the years and their great customer support.  I've had a few 
> dealings with Freedom in the past and my experience has been their 
> customer support was terrible.  I forget what the thing was called, 
> but was a note taker with gps and all that.  A friend gave me his old 
> one as the v a bought him a new one.  He had let the batteries run 
> clear down, and the thing lost all of its marbles.  I couldn't get any 
> help from freedom to get up and running again unless the original 
> purchaser contacted them, and the "original purchaser" didn't even 
> work for the v a any more.  I finally threw a couple grand worth of 
> stuff in the dumpster.  As the old 4 preps song went, "more money for 
> you and me."  No jaws for me at any price.
>
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Sat, 1 Apr 2017, Loy via Talk wrote:
>
>> I agree, I depend on WE every day and I can't afford JAWS. It's been
>> 9 months since the acquisition of AISquared and not one word from VFO 
>> about WE.They are not being honest with all the WE users by being 
>> silent. I will continue to use WE as long as Windows doesn't change 
>> where it will no longer work.
>>  - Original Message -
>>  From: Rod Hutton via Talk
>>  To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:58 AM
>>  Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>>
>>
>>  Hi Vaughan,
>>
>>  I believe it is a matter of semantics.
>>  The phrase "not a going concern," to me, implies it is not relevant 
>> in my life on a daily basis.
>>  For me, this is not true, since I use it every day.
>>  Personally, I find this type of language discouraging since I, and 
>> many others on this this, depend on this screen reader for our 
>> livelihood and are continuing to use it.
>>  In addition, and, again, personally, I find this discussion tiresome 
>> and annoying.
>>  This is just my feeling.
>>
>>  Respectfully,
>>
>>  Rod
>>
>>  -----Original Message-
>>  From: Talk
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
>>  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 4:02 AM
>>  To: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
>> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>>  Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>>
>>  I think it will still be an option - but some of you are missing the
>>  point: it is no longer a practical option for many people.
>>
>>
>>  The evidence does not support on-going development.
>>
>>  Evidence includes: bugs not fixed
>>  Loss of personnel who interacted with the users via this list and  
>> through other channels.
>>  The Fort Wayne office is not part of the VFO addresses for its offices.
>>
>>  No news  on the VFO site.
>>  The disestablishemngt of Zoomtext Fusion, in favour of

RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

Can you post the sorce link so we can go look at the page ourselves please?
Thanks, Sky.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Loy via Talk
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2017 10:26 AM
To: bjn...@windstream.net; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

I saw on a Microsoft page where they listed the Screen Readers ready for the
Win 10 Creator it did list Window Eyes 9.5.4 as being one that is ready. At
least Microsoft is more considerate than VFO to let us know something.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Brenda via Talk 
  To: wohlg...@gmail.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 1:15 PM
  Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes


  Here are a few thoughts...


  The comment about window-eyes not being a going concern related back to 
  it not being a going concern of VFO not us users.  So far, it does 
  appear that VFO isn't doing much with W-e, and those of us on the list 
  are concerned.


  The listers who do not like this conversation can use their delete button.


  The conversation about the future of Window-eyes has been very helpful 
  to me as it gives me the opportunity to interract with others to process 
  events of late.  I have been able to deal with the situation and make 
  decisions on my future because of this thread and interraction with 
  listers on and off list.


  I have been depressed and stressed about the status of Window-eyes, and 
  these posts help me not to feel alone. Window-eyes was my first screen 
  reader.  It was with me down the dark tunnel of totally relying on a 
  screen reader and not visual info.  Facing the reality alone would have 
  been difficult.  I am very grateful for all listers input and comments 
  which have helped me develop a plan and positive outlook.


  Here are some sayings/phrases that have come to mind as I read this 
  thread about the future of Window-eyes


  1.  Don't bite off your nose to spite your face.

  2.  Wake up and smell the coffee

  3.  the grass is sometimes greener on the other side (when the grass on 
  your side is dry and brown)


  Take care,

  Brenda




  On 4/1/2017 12:21 PM, Jim via Talk wrote:
  > Correvtion, I talked to Dave about two seek ago so there is more than 
  > just one left.
  >
  > Jim
  >
  >
  > On 01-Apr-17 11:59, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
  >> Personally, I won't buy jaws.  If WE becomes unuseable, I'll go to n 
  >> v d a.  I've donated to them before and will do so again.  How many 
  >> of us out there have unfulfilled s m a's?  The longer they delay, the 
  >> longer they can put off refunding any money or giving us something.  
  >> Why on earth would they develop and sell two screen readers?  Only 
  >> one still there from the gw days is Doug, and his hands are tied. 
  >> I've still got systems running xp and those run window-eyes just 
  >> fine.  I think many of us forget to give GW credit for the fine work 
  >> they did over the years and their great customer support. I've had a 
  >> few dealings with Freedom in the past and my experience has been 
  >> their customer support was terrible.  I forget what the thing was 
  >> called, but was a note taker with gps and all that.  A friend gave me 
  >> his old one as the v a bought him a new one.  He had let the 
  >> batteries run clear down, and the thing lost all of its marbles.  I 
  >> couldn't get any help from freedom to get up and running again unless 
  >> the original purchaser contacted them, and the "original purchaser" 
  >> didn't even work for the v a any more.  I finally threw a couple 
  >> grand worth of stuff in the dumpster.  As the old 4 preps song went, 
  >> "more money for you and me."  No jaws for me at any price.
  >>
  >> 73
  >> Butch
  >> WA0VJR
  >> Node 3148
  >> Wallace, ks.
  >>
  >>
  >> On Sat, 1 Apr 2017, Loy via Talk wrote:
  >>
  >>> I agree, I depend on WE every day and I can't afford JAWS. It's been 
  >>> 9 months since the acquisition of AISquared and not one word from 
  >>> VFO about WE.They are not being honest with all the WE users by 
  >>> being silent. I will continue to use WE as long as Windows doesn't 
  >>> change where it will no longer work.
  >>>  - Original Message -
  >>>  From: Rod Hutton via Talk
  >>>  To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >>>  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:58 AM
  >>>  Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>  Hi Vaughan,
  >>>
  >>>  I believe it is a matter of semantics.
  >>>  The phrase &qu

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Don H via Talk]

If Arron Smith is still there he doesn't answer his Email.

On 4/1/2017 11:52 AM, Loy via Talk wrote:

I think that I read that Aaron Smith is there.
  - Original Message -
  From: Jim via Talk
  To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 12:21 PM
  Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes


  Correvtion, I talked to Dave about two seek ago so there is more than
  just one left.

  Jim


  On 01-Apr-17 11:59, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
  > Personally, I won't buy jaws.  If WE becomes unuseable, I'll go to n v
  > d a.  I've donated to them before and will do so again.  How many of
  > us out there have unfulfilled s m a's?  The longer they delay, the
  > longer they can put off refunding any money or giving us something.
  > Why on earth would they develop and sell two screen readers?  Only one
  > still there from the gw days is Doug, and his hands are tied.  I've
  > still got systems running xp and those run window-eyes just fine.  I
  > think many of us forget to give GW credit for the fine work they did
  > over the years and their great customer support.  I've had a few
  > dealings with Freedom in the past and my experience has been their
  > customer support was terrible.  I forget what the thing was called,
  > but was a note taker with gps and all that.  A friend gave me his old
  > one as the v a bought him a new one.  He had let the batteries run
  > clear down, and the thing lost all of its marbles.  I couldn't get any
  > help from freedom to get up and running again unless the original
  > purchaser contacted them, and the "original purchaser" didn't even
  > work for the v a any more.  I finally threw a couple grand worth of
  > stuff in the dumpster.  As the old 4 preps song went, "more money for
  > you and me."  No jaws for me at any price.
  >
  > 73
  > Butch
  > WA0VJR
  > Node 3148
  > Wallace, ks.
  >
  >
  > On Sat, 1 Apr 2017, Loy via Talk wrote:
  >
  >> I agree, I depend on WE every day and I can't afford JAWS. It's been
  >> 9 months since the acquisition of AISquared and not one word from VFO
  >> about WE.They are not being honest with all the WE users by being
  >> silent. I will continue to use WE as long as Windows doesn't change
  >> where it will no longer work.
  >>  - Original Message -
  >>  From: Rod Hutton via Talk
  >>  To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >>  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:58 AM
  >>  Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
  >>
  >>
  >>  Hi Vaughan,
  >>
  >>  I believe it is a matter of semantics.
  >>  The phrase "not a going concern," to me, implies it is not relevant
  >> in my life on a daily basis.
  >>  For me, this is not true, since I use it every day.
  >>  Personally, I find this type of language discouraging since I, and
  >> many others on this this, depend on this screen reader for our
  >> livelihood and are continuing to use it.
  >>  In addition, and, again, personally, I find this discussion tiresome
  >> and annoying.
  >>  This is just my feeling.
  >>
  >>  Respectfully,
  >>
  >>  Rod
  >>
  >>  -Original Message-
  >>  From: Talk
  >> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On
  >> Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
  >>  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 4:02 AM
  >>  To: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
  >>  Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
  >>
  >>  I think it will still be an option - but some of you are missing the
  >>  point: it is no longer a practical option for many people.
  >>
  >>
  >>  The evidence does not support on-going development.
  >>
  >>  Evidence includes: bugs not fixed
  >>  Loss of personnel who interacted with the users via this list and
  >>  through other channels.
  >>  The Fort Wayne office is not part of the VFO addresses for its offices.
  >>
  >>  No news  on the VFO site.
  >>  The disestablishemngt of Zoomtext Fusion, in favour of a JFW interface.
  >>  This list is not monitored by VFO.  It VFO was paying attentiont it,
  >>  some of the claims made by people like me would be challenged.
  >>
  >>
  >>  So: no one is saying stop using your copy of Window-Eyes.  All we are
  >>  saying is that it is no longer a going concern.
  >>
  >>  Vaughan.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>  On 4/1/2017 8:52 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
  >>  > I agree I am of th

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Loy via Talk]

I saw on a Microsoft page where they listed the Screen Readers ready for the 
Win 10 Creator it did list Window Eyes 9.5.4 as being one that is ready. At 
least Microsoft is more considerate than VFO to let us know something.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Brenda via Talk 
  To: wohlg...@gmail.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 1:15 PM
  Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes


  Here are a few thoughts...


  The comment about window-eyes not being a going concern related back to 
  it not being a going concern of VFO not us users.  So far, it does 
  appear that VFO isn't doing much with W-e, and those of us on the list 
  are concerned.


  The listers who do not like this conversation can use their delete button.


  The conversation about the future of Window-eyes has been very helpful 
  to me as it gives me the opportunity to interract with others to process 
  events of late.  I have been able to deal with the situation and make 
  decisions on my future because of this thread and interraction with 
  listers on and off list.


  I have been depressed and stressed about the status of Window-eyes, and 
  these posts help me not to feel alone. Window-eyes was my first screen 
  reader.  It was with me down the dark tunnel of totally relying on a 
  screen reader and not visual info.  Facing the reality alone would have 
  been difficult.  I am very grateful for all listers input and comments 
  which have helped me develop a plan and positive outlook.


  Here are some sayings/phrases that have come to mind as I read this 
  thread about the future of Window-eyes


  1.  Don't bite off your nose to spite your face.

  2.  Wake up and smell the coffee

  3.  the grass is sometimes greener on the other side (when the grass on 
  your side is dry and brown)


  Take care,

  Brenda




  On 4/1/2017 12:21 PM, Jim via Talk wrote:
  > Correvtion, I talked to Dave about two seek ago so there is more than 
  > just one left.
  >
  > Jim
  >
  >
  > On 01-Apr-17 11:59, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
  >> Personally, I won't buy jaws.  If WE becomes unuseable, I'll go to n 
  >> v d a.  I've donated to them before and will do so again.  How many 
  >> of us out there have unfulfilled s m a's?  The longer they delay, the 
  >> longer they can put off refunding any money or giving us something.  
  >> Why on earth would they develop and sell two screen readers?  Only 
  >> one still there from the gw days is Doug, and his hands are tied. 
  >> I've still got systems running xp and those run window-eyes just 
  >> fine.  I think many of us forget to give GW credit for the fine work 
  >> they did over the years and their great customer support. I've had a 
  >> few dealings with Freedom in the past and my experience has been 
  >> their customer support was terrible.  I forget what the thing was 
  >> called, but was a note taker with gps and all that.  A friend gave me 
  >> his old one as the v a bought him a new one.  He had let the 
  >> batteries run clear down, and the thing lost all of its marbles.  I 
  >> couldn't get any help from freedom to get up and running again unless 
  >> the original purchaser contacted them, and the "original purchaser" 
  >> didn't even work for the v a any more.  I finally threw a couple 
  >> grand worth of stuff in the dumpster.  As the old 4 preps song went, 
  >> "more money for you and me."  No jaws for me at any price.
  >>
  >> 73
  >> Butch
  >> WA0VJR
  >> Node 3148
  >> Wallace, ks.
  >>
  >>
  >> On Sat, 1 Apr 2017, Loy via Talk wrote:
  >>
  >>> I agree, I depend on WE every day and I can't afford JAWS. It's been 
  >>> 9 months since the acquisition of AISquared and not one word from 
  >>> VFO about WE.They are not being honest with all the WE users by 
  >>> being silent. I will continue to use WE as long as Windows doesn't 
  >>> change where it will no longer work.
  >>>  - Original Message -
  >>>  From: Rod Hutton via Talk
  >>>  To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >>>  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:58 AM
  >>>  Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
  >>>
  >>>
  >>>  Hi Vaughan,
  >>>
  >>>  I believe it is a matter of semantics.
  >>>  The phrase "not a going concern," to me, implies it is not relevant 
  >>> in my life on a daily basis.
  >>>  For me, this is not true, since I use it every day.
  >>>  Personally, I find this type of language discouraging since I, and 
  >>> many others on this this, depend on this screen reader for our 
  >>> livelihood

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Brenda via Talk]

yep, I found him on linkedin.  His job title is something like 
enterprise compliance.





On 4/1/2017 12:52 PM, Loy via Talk wrote:

I think that I read that Aaron Smith is there.
   - Original Message -
   From: Jim via Talk
   To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
   Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 12:21 PM
   Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes


   Correvtion, I talked to Dave about two seek ago so there is more than
   just one left.

   Jim


   On 01-Apr-17 11:59, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
   > Personally, I won't buy jaws.  If WE becomes unuseable, I'll go to n v
   > d a.  I've donated to them before and will do so again.  How many of
   > us out there have unfulfilled s m a's?  The longer they delay, the
   > longer they can put off refunding any money or giving us something.
   > Why on earth would they develop and sell two screen readers?  Only one
   > still there from the gw days is Doug, and his hands are tied.  I've
   > still got systems running xp and those run window-eyes just fine.  I
   > think many of us forget to give GW credit for the fine work they did
   > over the years and their great customer support.  I've had a few
   > dealings with Freedom in the past and my experience has been their
   > customer support was terrible.  I forget what the thing was called,
   > but was a note taker with gps and all that.  A friend gave me his old
   > one as the v a bought him a new one.  He had let the batteries run
   > clear down, and the thing lost all of its marbles.  I couldn't get any
   > help from freedom to get up and running again unless the original
   > purchaser contacted them, and the "original purchaser" didn't even
   > work for the v a any more.  I finally threw a couple grand worth of
   > stuff in the dumpster.  As the old 4 preps song went, "more money for
   > you and me."  No jaws for me at any price.
   >
   > 73
   > Butch
   > WA0VJR
   > Node 3148
   > Wallace, ks.
   >
   >
   > On Sat, 1 Apr 2017, Loy via Talk wrote:
   >
   >> I agree, I depend on WE every day and I can't afford JAWS. It's been
   >> 9 months since the acquisition of AISquared and not one word from VFO
   >> about WE.They are not being honest with all the WE users by being
   >> silent. I will continue to use WE as long as Windows doesn't change
   >> where it will no longer work.
   >>  - Original Message -
   >>  From: Rod Hutton via Talk
   >>  To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
   >>  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:58 AM
   >>  Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
   >>
   >>
   >>  Hi Vaughan,
   >>
   >>  I believe it is a matter of semantics.
   >>  The phrase "not a going concern," to me, implies it is not relevant
   >> in my life on a daily basis.
   >>  For me, this is not true, since I use it every day.
   >>  Personally, I find this type of language discouraging since I, and
   >> many others on this this, depend on this screen reader for our
   >> livelihood and are continuing to use it.
   >>  In addition, and, again, personally, I find this discussion tiresome
   >> and annoying.
   >>  This is just my feeling.
   >>
   >>  Respectfully,
   >>
   >>  Rod
   >>
   >>  -Original Message-
   >>  From: Talk
   >> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On
   >> Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
   >>  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 4:02 AM
   >>  To: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List
   >> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
   >>  Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
   >>
   >>  I think it will still be an option - but some of you are missing the
   >>  point: it is no longer a practical option for many people.
   >>
   >>
   >>  The evidence does not support on-going development.
   >>
   >>  Evidence includes: bugs not fixed
   >>  Loss of personnel who interacted with the users via this list and
   >>  through other channels.
   >>  The Fort Wayne office is not part of the VFO addresses for its offices.
   >>
   >>  No news  on the VFO site.
   >>  The disestablishemngt of Zoomtext Fusion, in favour of a JFW interface.
   >>  This list is not monitored by VFO.  It VFO was paying attentiont it,
   >>  some of the claims made by people like me would be challenged.
   >>
   >>
   >>  So: no one is saying stop using your copy of Window-Eyes.  All we are
   >>  saying is that it is no longer a going concern.
   >>
   >>  Vaughan.
   >>
   >>
  

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Brenda via Talk]

Here are a few thoughts...


The comment about window-eyes not being a going concern related back to 
it not being a going concern of VFO not us users.  So far, it does 
appear that VFO isn't doing much with W-e, and those of us on the list 
are concerned.



The listers who do not like this conversation can use their delete button.


The conversation about the future of Window-eyes has been very helpful 
to me as it gives me the opportunity to interract with others to process 
events of late.  I have been able to deal with the situation and make 
decisions on my future because of this thread and interraction with 
listers on and off list.



I have been depressed and stressed about the status of Window-eyes, and 
these posts help me not to feel alone. Window-eyes was my first screen 
reader.  It was with me down the dark tunnel of totally relying on a 
screen reader and not visual info.  Facing the reality alone would have 
been difficult.  I am very grateful for all listers input and comments 
which have helped me develop a plan and positive outlook.



Here are some sayings/phrases that have come to mind as I read this 
thread about the future of Window-eyes



1.  Don't bite off your nose to spite your face.

2.  Wake up and smell the coffee

3.  the grass is sometimes greener on the other side (when the grass on 
your side is dry and brown)



Take care,

Brenda




On 4/1/2017 12:21 PM, Jim via Talk wrote:
Correvtion, I talked to Dave about two seek ago so there is more than 
just one left.


Jim


On 01-Apr-17 11:59, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
Personally, I won't buy jaws.  If WE becomes unuseable, I'll go to n 
v d a.  I've donated to them before and will do so again.  How many 
of us out there have unfulfilled s m a's?  The longer they delay, the 
longer they can put off refunding any money or giving us something.  
Why on earth would they develop and sell two screen readers?  Only 
one still there from the gw days is Doug, and his hands are tied. 
I've still got systems running xp and those run window-eyes just 
fine.  I think many of us forget to give GW credit for the fine work 
they did over the years and their great customer support. I've had a 
few dealings with Freedom in the past and my experience has been 
their customer support was terrible.  I forget what the thing was 
called, but was a note taker with gps and all that.  A friend gave me 
his old one as the v a bought him a new one.  He had let the 
batteries run clear down, and the thing lost all of its marbles.  I 
couldn't get any help from freedom to get up and running again unless 
the original purchaser contacted them, and the "original purchaser" 
didn't even work for the v a any more.  I finally threw a couple 
grand worth of stuff in the dumpster.  As the old 4 preps song went, 
"more money for you and me."  No jaws for me at any price.


73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Sat, 1 Apr 2017, Loy via Talk wrote:

I agree, I depend on WE every day and I can't afford JAWS. It's been 
9 months since the acquisition of AISquared and not one word from 
VFO about WE.They are not being honest with all the WE users by 
being silent. I will continue to use WE as long as Windows doesn't 
change where it will no longer work.

 - Original Message -
 From: Rod Hutton via Talk
 To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:58 AM
 Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes


 Hi Vaughan,

 I believe it is a matter of semantics.
 The phrase "not a going concern," to me, implies it is not relevant 
in my life on a daily basis.

 For me, this is not true, since I use it every day.
 Personally, I find this type of language discouraging since I, and 
many others on this this, depend on this screen reader for our 
livelihood and are continuing to use it.
 In addition, and, again, personally, I find this discussion 
tiresome and annoying.

 This is just my feeling.

 Respectfully,

 Rod

 -Original Message-
 From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk

 Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 4:02 AM
 To: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion 
List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>

 Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

 I think it will still be an option - but some of you are missing the
 point: it is no longer a practical option for many people.


 The evidence does not support on-going development.

 Evidence includes: bugs not fixed
 Loss of personnel who interacted with the users via this list and
 through other channels.
 The Fort Wayne office is not part of the VFO addresses for its 
offices.


 No news  on the VFO site.
 The disestablishemngt of Zoomtext Fusion, in favour of a JFW 
interface.

 This list is not monitored by VFO.  It VFO was paying attentiont it,
 some of the claims made by people like me would be challenged.

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Loy via Talk]

I think that I read that Aaron Smith is there.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jim via Talk 
  To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 12:21 PM
  Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes


  Correvtion, I talked to Dave about two seek ago so there is more than 
  just one left.

  Jim


  On 01-Apr-17 11:59, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
  > Personally, I won't buy jaws.  If WE becomes unuseable, I'll go to n v 
  > d a.  I've donated to them before and will do so again.  How many of 
  > us out there have unfulfilled s m a's?  The longer they delay, the 
  > longer they can put off refunding any money or giving us something.  
  > Why on earth would they develop and sell two screen readers?  Only one 
  > still there from the gw days is Doug, and his hands are tied.  I've 
  > still got systems running xp and those run window-eyes just fine.  I 
  > think many of us forget to give GW credit for the fine work they did 
  > over the years and their great customer support.  I've had a few 
  > dealings with Freedom in the past and my experience has been their 
  > customer support was terrible.  I forget what the thing was called, 
  > but was a note taker with gps and all that.  A friend gave me his old 
  > one as the v a bought him a new one.  He had let the batteries run 
  > clear down, and the thing lost all of its marbles.  I couldn't get any 
  > help from freedom to get up and running again unless the original 
  > purchaser contacted them, and the "original purchaser" didn't even 
  > work for the v a any more.  I finally threw a couple grand worth of 
  > stuff in the dumpster.  As the old 4 preps song went, "more money for 
  > you and me."  No jaws for me at any price.
  >
  > 73
  > Butch
  > WA0VJR
  > Node 3148
  > Wallace, ks.
  >
  >
  > On Sat, 1 Apr 2017, Loy via Talk wrote:
  >
  >> I agree, I depend on WE every day and I can't afford JAWS. It's been 
  >> 9 months since the acquisition of AISquared and not one word from VFO 
  >> about WE.They are not being honest with all the WE users by being 
  >> silent. I will continue to use WE as long as Windows doesn't change 
  >> where it will no longer work.
  >>  - Original Message -
  >>  From: Rod Hutton via Talk
  >>  To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >>  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:58 AM
  >>  Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
  >>
  >>
  >>  Hi Vaughan,
  >>
  >>  I believe it is a matter of semantics.
  >>  The phrase "not a going concern," to me, implies it is not relevant 
  >> in my life on a daily basis.
  >>  For me, this is not true, since I use it every day.
  >>  Personally, I find this type of language discouraging since I, and 
  >> many others on this this, depend on this screen reader for our 
  >> livelihood and are continuing to use it.
  >>  In addition, and, again, personally, I find this discussion tiresome 
  >> and annoying.
  >>  This is just my feeling.
  >>
  >>  Respectfully,
  >>
  >>  Rod
  >>
  >>  -Original Message-
  >>  From: Talk 
  >> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
  >> Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
  >>  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 4:02 AM
  >>  To: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
  >> <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
  >>  Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
  >>
  >>  I think it will still be an option - but some of you are missing the
  >>  point: it is no longer a practical option for many people.
  >>
  >>
  >>  The evidence does not support on-going development.
  >>
  >>  Evidence includes: bugs not fixed
  >>  Loss of personnel who interacted with the users via this list and
  >>  through other channels.
  >>  The Fort Wayne office is not part of the VFO addresses for its offices.
  >>
  >>  No news  on the VFO site.
  >>  The disestablishemngt of Zoomtext Fusion, in favour of a JFW interface.
  >>  This list is not monitored by VFO.  It VFO was paying attentiont it,
  >>  some of the claims made by people like me would be challenged.
  >>
  >>
  >>  So: no one is saying stop using your copy of Window-Eyes.  All we are
  >>  saying is that it is no longer a going concern.
  >>
  >>  Vaughan.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>  On 4/1/2017 8:52 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
  >>  > I agree I am of the same thought process until an announcement 
  >> from someone
  >>  > at VF

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Jim via Talk]

Correvtion, I talked to Dave about two seek ago so there is more than 
just one left.


Jim


On 01-Apr-17 11:59, Butch Bussen via Talk wrote:
Personally, I won't buy jaws.  If WE becomes unuseable, I'll go to n v 
d a.  I've donated to them before and will do so again.  How many of 
us out there have unfulfilled s m a's?  The longer they delay, the 
longer they can put off refunding any money or giving us something.  
Why on earth would they develop and sell two screen readers?  Only one 
still there from the gw days is Doug, and his hands are tied.  I've 
still got systems running xp and those run window-eyes just fine.  I 
think many of us forget to give GW credit for the fine work they did 
over the years and their great customer support.  I've had a few 
dealings with Freedom in the past and my experience has been their 
customer support was terrible.  I forget what the thing was called, 
but was a note taker with gps and all that.  A friend gave me his old 
one as the v a bought him a new one.  He had let the batteries run 
clear down, and the thing lost all of its marbles.  I couldn't get any 
help from freedom to get up and running again unless the original 
purchaser contacted them, and the "original purchaser" didn't even 
work for the v a any more.  I finally threw a couple grand worth of 
stuff in the dumpster.  As the old 4 preps song went, "more money for 
you and me."  No jaws for me at any price.


73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Sat, 1 Apr 2017, Loy via Talk wrote:

I agree, I depend on WE every day and I can't afford JAWS. It's been 
9 months since the acquisition of AISquared and not one word from VFO 
about WE.They are not being honest with all the WE users by being 
silent. I will continue to use WE as long as Windows doesn't change 
where it will no longer work.

 - Original Message -
 From: Rod Hutton via Talk
 To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:58 AM
 Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes


 Hi Vaughan,

 I believe it is a matter of semantics.
 The phrase "not a going concern," to me, implies it is not relevant 
in my life on a daily basis.

 For me, this is not true, since I use it every day.
 Personally, I find this type of language discouraging since I, and 
many others on this this, depend on this screen reader for our 
livelihood and are continuing to use it.
 In addition, and, again, personally, I find this discussion tiresome 
and annoying.

 This is just my feeling.

 Respectfully,

 Rod

 -Original Message-
 From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk

 Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 4:02 AM
 To: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>

 Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

 I think it will still be an option - but some of you are missing the
 point: it is no longer a practical option for many people.


 The evidence does not support on-going development.

 Evidence includes: bugs not fixed
 Loss of personnel who interacted with the users via this list and
 through other channels.
 The Fort Wayne office is not part of the VFO addresses for its offices.

 No news  on the VFO site.
 The disestablishemngt of Zoomtext Fusion, in favour of a JFW interface.
 This list is not monitored by VFO.  It VFO was paying attentiont it,
 some of the claims made by people like me would be challenged.


 So: no one is saying stop using your copy of Window-Eyes.  All we are
 saying is that it is no longer a going concern.

 Vaughan.



 On 4/1/2017 8:52 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
 > I agree I am of the same thought process until an announcement 
from someone
 > at VFO says there will be no more window eyes I will continue to 
think it's

 > a option.
 >
 > -Original Message-
 > From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]

 > On Behalf Of Jim via Talk
 > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 8:38 PM
 > To: Don H; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 > Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
 >
 >   Hi there!
 >
 > Question, what is the source of your information about W.E. going 
away?
 > I have seen nothing official from anyone regarding this issue and 
until I
 > do, I will continue to believe that W.E. is ALIVE and KICKING! I 
am getting
 > rather tire of seeing this same old topic being brought up over 
and over.  I
 > do not wish to start any sort of heated debate on this subject I 
just want
 > to see where all this so called information is actually coming 
from..?  Have

 > A Great Day! de
 >
 > .
 >
 >
 > On 31-Mar-17 11:12, Don H via Talk wrote:
 >> If you think Window Eyes isn't going away I also have a nice 
bridge to
 >> sell you.  It is called the Golden Gat

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Butch Bussen via Talk]

Personally, I won't buy jaws.  If WE becomes unuseable, I'll go to n v d 
a.  I've donated to them before and will do so again.  How many of us 
out there have unfulfilled s m a's?  The longer they delay, the longer 
they can put off refunding any money or giving us something.  Why on 
earth would they develop and sell two screen readers?  Only one still 
there from the gw days is Doug, and his hands are tied.  I've still got 
systems running xp and those run window-eyes just fine.  I think many of 
us forget to give GW credit for the fine work they did over the years 
and their great customer support.  I've had a few dealings with Freedom 
in the past and my experience has been their customer support was 
terrible.  I forget what the thing was called, but was a note taker with 
gps and all that.  A friend gave me his old one as the v a bought him a 
new one.  He had let the batteries run clear down, and the thing lost 
all of its marbles.  I couldn't get any help from freedom to get up and 
running again unless the original purchaser contacted them, and the 
"original purchaser" didn't even work for the v a any more.  I finally 
threw a couple grand worth of stuff in the dumpster.  As the old 4 preps 
song went, "more money for you and me."  No jaws for me at any price.


73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On 
Sat, 1 Apr 2017, Loy via Talk wrote:



I agree, I depend on WE every day and I can't afford JAWS. It's been 9 months 
since the acquisition of AISquared and not one word from VFO about WE.They are 
not being honest with all the WE users by being silent. I will continue to use 
WE as long as Windows doesn't change where it will no longer work.
 - Original Message -
 From: Rod Hutton via Talk
 To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:58 AM
 Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes


 Hi Vaughan,

 I believe it is a matter of semantics.
 The phrase "not a going concern," to me, implies it is not relevant in my life 
on a daily basis.
 For me, this is not true, since I use it every day.
 Personally, I find this type of language discouraging since I, and many others 
on this this, depend on this screen reader for our livelihood and are 
continuing to use it.
 In addition, and, again, personally, I find this discussion tiresome and 
annoying.
 This is just my feeling.

 Respectfully,

 Rod

 -Original Message-
 From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
 Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 4:02 AM
 To: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
 Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

 I think it will still be an option - but some of you are missing the
 point: it is no longer a practical option for many people.


 The evidence does not support on-going development.

 Evidence includes: bugs not fixed
 Loss of personnel who interacted with the users via this list and
 through other channels.
 The Fort Wayne office is not part of the VFO addresses for its offices.

 No news  on the VFO site.
 The disestablishemngt of Zoomtext Fusion, in favour of a JFW interface.
 This list is not monitored by VFO.  It VFO was paying attentiont it,
 some of the claims made by people like me would be challenged.


 So: no one is saying stop using your copy of Window-Eyes.  All we are
 saying is that it is no longer a going concern.

 Vaughan.



 On 4/1/2017 8:52 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
 > I agree I am of the same thought process until an announcement from someone
 > at VFO says there will be no more window eyes I will continue to think it's
 > a option.
 >
 > -Original Message-
 > From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
 > On Behalf Of Jim via Talk
 > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 8:38 PM
 > To: Don H; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 > Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
 >
 >   Hi there!
 >
 > Question, what is the source of your information about W.E. going away?
 > I have seen nothing official from anyone regarding this issue and until I
 > do, I will continue to believe that W.E. is ALIVE and KICKING! I am getting
 > rather tire of seeing this same old topic being brought up over and over.  I
 > do not wish to start any sort of heated debate on this subject I just want
 > to see where all this so called information is actually coming from..?  Have
 > A Great Day! de
 >
 > .
 >
 >
 > On 31-Mar-17 11:12, Don H via Talk wrote:
 >> If you think Window Eyes isn't going away I also have a nice bridge to
 >> sell you.  It is called the Golden Gate and I will sell it real cheap.
 >>
 >> On 3/31/2017 12:59 AM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
 >>> We don't know WE is going away.
 >>>
 >>>

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Larry Higgins via Talk]

Oh yeah!, you think they aren't being honest with us? I submit that they 
are certainly being quite honest, in a somewhat peculiar fashion. I 
think that their honest intent is to continue to ignore us, and 
therefore humiliate us. You know that the greatest form of humiliation 
is to be ignored, don't you?


The only product I ever bought from these people was Openbook, and that 
was due to the fact that I had bought OB long before HJ bought it way 
back when, but I'll be damned if I will ever consider buying another 
product from this bunch of cutthroats ever again.


Nuff said!

Larry


On 4/1/2017 9:26 AM, Loy via Talk wrote:

I agree, I depend on WE every day and I can't afford JAWS. It's been 9 months 
since the acquisition of AISquared and not one word from VFO about WE.They are 
not being honest with all the WE users by being silent. I will continue to use 
WE as long as Windows doesn't change where it will no longer work.
  - Original Message -
  From: Rod Hutton via Talk
  To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:58 AM
  Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes


  Hi Vaughan,

  I believe it is a matter of semantics.
  The phrase "not a going concern," to me, implies it is not relevant in my 
life on a daily basis.
  For me, this is not true, since I use it every day.
  Personally, I find this type of language discouraging since I, and many 
others on this this, depend on this screen reader for our livelihood and are 
continuing to use it.
  In addition, and, again, personally, I find this discussion tiresome and 
annoying.
  This is just my feeling.

  Respectfully,

  Rod

  -Original Message-
  From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 4:02 AM
  To: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
  Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

  I think it will still be an option - but some of you are missing the
  point: it is no longer a practical option for many people.


  The evidence does not support on-going development.

  Evidence includes: bugs not fixed
  Loss of personnel who interacted with the users via this list and
  through other channels.
  The Fort Wayne office is not part of the VFO addresses for its offices.

  No news  on the VFO site.
  The disestablishemngt of Zoomtext Fusion, in favour of a JFW interface.
  This list is not monitored by VFO.  It VFO was paying attentiont it,
  some of the claims made by people like me would be challenged.


  So: no one is saying stop using your copy of Window-Eyes.  All we are
  saying is that it is no longer a going concern.

  Vaughan.



  On 4/1/2017 8:52 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
  > I agree I am of the same thought process until an announcement from someone
  > at VFO says there will be no more window eyes I will continue to think it's
  > a option.
  >
  > -Original Message-
  > From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
  > On Behalf Of Jim via Talk
  > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 8:38 PM
  > To: Don H; Window-Eyes Discussion List
  > Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
  >
  >   Hi there!
  >
  > Question, what is the source of your information about W.E. going away?
  > I have seen nothing official from anyone regarding this issue and until I
  > do, I will continue to believe that W.E. is ALIVE and KICKING! I am getting
  > rather tire of seeing this same old topic being brought up over and over.  I
  > do not wish to start any sort of heated debate on this subject I just want
  > to see where all this so called information is actually coming from..?  Have
  > A Great Day! de
  >
  > .
  >
  >
  > On 31-Mar-17 11:12, Don H via Talk wrote:
  >> If you think Window Eyes isn't going away I also have a nice bridge to
  >> sell you.  It is called the Golden Gate and I will sell it real cheap.
  >>
  >> On 3/31/2017 12:59 AM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
  >>> We don't know WE is going away.
  >>>
  >>> -Original Message-
  >>> From: Talk
  >>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
  >>> On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
  >>> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:26 PM
  >>> To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >>> Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
  >>>
  >>> Hi Sky and List
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and
  >>> push for a reasonable price to transition from Window-

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Loy via Talk]

I agree, I depend on WE every day and I can't afford JAWS. It's been 9 months 
since the acquisition of AISquared and not one word from VFO about WE.They are 
not being honest with all the WE users by being silent. I will continue to use 
WE as long as Windows doesn't change where it will no longer work.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Rod Hutton via Talk 
  To: Vaughan Dodd ; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:58 AM
  Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes


  Hi Vaughan,

  I believe it is a matter of semantics.
  The phrase "not a going concern," to me, implies it is not relevant in my 
life on a daily basis.
  For me, this is not true, since I use it every day.
  Personally, I find this type of language discouraging since I, and many 
others on this this, depend on this screen reader for our livelihood and are 
continuing to use it.
  In addition, and, again, personally, I find this discussion tiresome and 
annoying.
  This is just my feeling.

  Respectfully,

  Rod

  -Original Message-
  From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
  Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 4:02 AM
  To: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
  Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

  I think it will still be an option - but some of you are missing the 
  point: it is no longer a practical option for many people.


  The evidence does not support on-going development.

  Evidence includes: bugs not fixed
  Loss of personnel who interacted with the users via this list and 
  through other channels.
  The Fort Wayne office is not part of the VFO addresses for its offices.

  No news  on the VFO site.
  The disestablishemngt of Zoomtext Fusion, in favour of a JFW interface.
  This list is not monitored by VFO.  It VFO was paying attentiont it, 
  some of the claims made by people like me would be challenged.


  So: no one is saying stop using your copy of Window-Eyes.  All we are 
  saying is that it is no longer a going concern.

  Vaughan.



  On 4/1/2017 8:52 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
  > I agree I am of the same thought process until an announcement from someone
  > at VFO says there will be no more window eyes I will continue to think it's
  > a option.
  >
  > -Original Message-
  > From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
  > On Behalf Of Jim via Talk
  > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 8:38 PM
  > To: Don H; Window-Eyes Discussion List
  > Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
  >
  >   Hi there!
  >
  > Question, what is the source of your information about W.E. going away?
  > I have seen nothing official from anyone regarding this issue and until I
  > do, I will continue to believe that W.E. is ALIVE and KICKING! I am getting
  > rather tire of seeing this same old topic being brought up over and over.  I
  > do not wish to start any sort of heated debate on this subject I just want
  > to see where all this so called information is actually coming from..?  Have
  > A Great Day! de
  >
  > .
  >
  >
  > On 31-Mar-17 11:12, Don H via Talk wrote:
  >> If you think Window Eyes isn't going away I also have a nice bridge to
  >> sell you.  It is called the Golden Gate and I will sell it real cheap.
  >>
  >> On 3/31/2017 12:59 AM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
  >>> We don't know WE is going away.
  >>>
  >>> -Original Message-
  >>> From: Talk
  >>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
  >>> On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
  >>> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:26 PM
  >>> To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
  >>> Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
  >>>
  >>> Hi Sky and List
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and
  >>> push for a reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws.
  >>> The number of SMAs should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs
  >>> would be given jaws SMAs or the money paid toward their SMAs would be
  >>> put toward the cost of jaws.  Everyone should be given the convention
  >>> price for jaws.
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> Just a thought,
  >>>
  >>> Brenda
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
  >>>> Hello Kevin and Vaughn.  Here are my thoughts on this. Had the blind
  >>>> organisations had given Window-Eyes 

RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Vaughan,

I believe it is a matter of semantics.
The phrase "not a going concern," to me, implies it is not relevant in my life 
on a daily basis.
For me, this is not true, since I use it every day.
Personally, I find this type of language discouraging since I, and many others 
on this this, depend on this screen reader for our livelihood and are 
continuing to use it.
In addition, and, again, personally, I find this discussion tiresome and 
annoying.
This is just my feeling.

Respectfully,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 4:02 AM
To: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

I think it will still be an option - but some of you are missing the 
point: it is no longer a practical option for many people.


The evidence does not support on-going development.

Evidence includes: bugs not fixed
Loss of personnel who interacted with the users via this list and 
through other channels.
The Fort Wayne office is not part of the VFO addresses for its offices.

No news  on the VFO site.
The disestablishemngt of Zoomtext Fusion, in favour of a JFW interface.
This list is not monitored by VFO.  It VFO was paying attentiont it, 
some of the claims made by people like me would be challenged.


So: no one is saying stop using your copy of Window-Eyes.  All we are 
saying is that it is no longer a going concern.

Vaughan.



On 4/1/2017 8:52 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
> I agree I am of the same thought process until an announcement from someone
> at VFO says there will be no more window eyes I will continue to think it's
> a option.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Jim via Talk
> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 8:38 PM
> To: Don H; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>
>   Hi there!
>
> Question, what is the source of your information about W.E. going away?
> I have seen nothing official from anyone regarding this issue and until I
> do, I will continue to believe that W.E. is ALIVE and KICKING! I am getting
> rather tire of seeing this same old topic being brought up over and over.  I
> do not wish to start any sort of heated debate on this subject I just want
> to see where all this so called information is actually coming from..?  Have
> A Great Day! de
>
> .
>
>
> On 31-Mar-17 11:12, Don H via Talk wrote:
>> If you think Window Eyes isn't going away I also have a nice bridge to
>> sell you.  It is called the Golden Gate and I will sell it real cheap.
>>
>> On 3/31/2017 12:59 AM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
>>> We don't know WE is going away.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Talk
>>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail....@lists.window-eyes.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:26 PM
>>> To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>>>
>>> Hi Sky and List
>>>
>>>
>>> I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and
>>> push for a reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws.
>>> The number of SMAs should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs
>>> would be given jaws SMAs or the money paid toward their SMAs would be
>>> put toward the cost of jaws.  Everyone should be given the convention
>>> price for jaws.
>>>
>>>
>>> Just a thought,
>>>
>>> Brenda
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
>>>> Hello Kevin and Vaughn.  Here are my thoughts on this. Had the blind
>>>> organisations had given Window-Eyes a chance,  Window-Eyes would not
>>>> have gotten extinct and this would not have happened.  Below, I'm
>>>> going to forward you guys some emails from a friend of mine who is
>>>> on this list, and I support him 100 percent!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Email 1:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Sky,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sadly that has been the way it has been since the start. As you
>>>> said, had the rnib, cnib, american league for th blind and so on
>>>> favoured window-eyes or even given it a chance. It would not be
&

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Vaughan Dodd via Talk]

I think it will still be an option - but some of you are missing the 
point: it is no longer a practical option for many people.



The evidence does not support on-going development.

Evidence includes: bugs not fixed
Loss of personnel who interacted with the users via this list and 
through other channels.

The Fort Wayne office is not part of the VFO addresses for its offices.

No news  on the VFO site.
The disestablishemngt of Zoomtext Fusion, in favour of a JFW interface.
This list is not monitored by VFO.  It VFO was paying attentiont it, 
some of the claims made by people like me would be challenged.



So: no one is saying stop using your copy of Window-Eyes.  All we are 
saying is that it is no longer a going concern.


Vaughan.



On 4/1/2017 8:52 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:

I agree I am of the same thought process until an announcement from someone
at VFO says there will be no more window eyes I will continue to think it's
a option.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Jim via Talk
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 8:38 PM
To: Don H; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

  Hi there!

Question, what is the source of your information about W.E. going away?
I have seen nothing official from anyone regarding this issue and until I
do, I will continue to believe that W.E. is ALIVE and KICKING! I am getting
rather tire of seeing this same old topic being brought up over and over.  I
do not wish to start any sort of heated debate on this subject I just want
to see where all this so called information is actually coming from..?  Have
A Great Day! de

.


On 31-Mar-17 11:12, Don H via Talk wrote:

If you think Window Eyes isn't going away I also have a nice bridge to
sell you.  It is called the Golden Gate and I will sell it real cheap.

On 3/31/2017 12:59 AM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:

We don't know WE is going away.

-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:26 PM
To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Hi Sky and List


I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.


I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and
push for a reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws.
The number of SMAs should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs
would be given jaws SMAs or the money paid toward their SMAs would be
put toward the cost of jaws.  Everyone should be given the convention
price for jaws.


Just a thought,

Brenda


On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:

Hello Kevin and Vaughn.  Here are my thoughts on this. Had the blind
organisations had given Window-Eyes a chance,  Window-Eyes would not
have gotten extinct and this would not have happened.  Below, I'm
going to forward you guys some emails from a friend of mine who is
on this list, and I support him 100 percent!




Email 1:

Hi Sky,



Sadly that has been the way it has been since the start. As you
said, had the rnib, cnib, american league for th blind and so on
favoured window-eyes or even given it a chance. It would not be
almost extinct at this moment in time. It does make me angry. These
people are somehow escaping accountability for their acdtions. The
entire system has been geared towards Jaws continually. Every other
screen reader has become second rate because of the power wielded
withing the blind community. It's alright us saying this but
actually proving it is another matter. If it could be proved and
despite all the negativity, it could. Then what could happen?
Telling the world about how a ruthless power hungry organisation set
out to control the world of the blind with a screen reader? If
people would back us up and not just say that is what happened
without saying I can prove it. To be able to prove it would be the
icing on the cake. It would show the rotten, evil people at jaws who
abused their power and in a way forced vendors to favour jaws above
other screen readers. If enough people were prepared to come out and
back us up we would have enough to at least make

those responcible for the blind to wake up and accept responcibility.



I doubt that will ever happen as proving what we know to be true
would be difficult. Not impossible. We do have what is called a
Mergers and nonopoly commission but it too is being seen as a dog with

no teeth.

Although it blocked a merger a few days ago between the two major
money markets, one in London and the other in @Germany from combining.
They have some power but it is only token gesture.



There is a proposed merger between Rupert Murdoch and Sky tv. He
will be allowed to buy it despite criticism from other media
cdompanies. He owns the majority of the world's media and his
control is beyond anything that the world has seen

RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Dennis Long via Talk]

I agree I am of the same thought process until an announcement from someone
at VFO says there will be no more window eyes I will continue to think it's
a option.  

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Jim via Talk
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 8:38 PM
To: Don H; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

 Hi there!

Question, what is the source of your information about W.E. going away? 
I have seen nothing official from anyone regarding this issue and until I
do, I will continue to believe that W.E. is ALIVE and KICKING! I am getting
rather tire of seeing this same old topic being brought up over and over.  I
do not wish to start any sort of heated debate on this subject I just want
to see where all this so called information is actually coming from..?  Have
A Great Day! de

.


On 31-Mar-17 11:12, Don H via Talk wrote:
> If you think Window Eyes isn't going away I also have a nice bridge to 
> sell you.  It is called the Golden Gate and I will sell it real cheap.
>
> On 3/31/2017 12:59 AM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
>> We don't know WE is going away.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
>> On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
>> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:26 PM
>> To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>>
>> Hi Sky and List
>>
>>
>> I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.
>>
>>
>> I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and 
>> push for a reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws. 
>> The number of SMAs should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs 
>> would be given jaws SMAs or the money paid toward their SMAs would be 
>> put toward the cost of jaws.  Everyone should be given the convention 
>> price for jaws.
>>
>>
>> Just a thought,
>>
>> Brenda
>>
>>
>> On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
>>> Hello Kevin and Vaughn.  Here are my thoughts on this. Had the blind 
>>> organisations had given Window-Eyes a chance,  Window-Eyes would not 
>>> have gotten extinct and this would not have happened.  Below, I'm 
>>> going to forward you guys some emails from a friend of mine who is 
>>> on this list, and I support him 100 percent!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Email 1:
>>>
>>> Hi Sky,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sadly that has been the way it has been since the start. As you 
>>> said, had the rnib, cnib, american league for th blind and so on 
>>> favoured window-eyes or even given it a chance. It would not be 
>>> almost extinct at this moment in time. It does make me angry. These 
>>> people are somehow escaping accountability for their acdtions. The 
>>> entire system has been geared towards Jaws continually. Every other 
>>> screen reader has become second rate because of the power wielded 
>>> withing the blind community. It's alright us saying this but 
>>> actually proving it is another matter. If it could be proved and 
>>> despite all the negativity, it could. Then what could happen? 
>>> Telling the world about how a ruthless power hungry organisation set 
>>> out to control the world of the blind with a screen reader? If 
>>> people would back us up and not just say that is what happened 
>>> without saying I can prove it. To be able to prove it would be the 
>>> icing on the cake. It would show the rotten, evil people at jaws who 
>>> abused their power and in a way forced vendors to favour jaws above 
>>> other screen readers. If enough people were prepared to come out and 
>>> back us up we would have enough to at least make
>> those responcible for the blind to wake up and accept responcibility.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I doubt that will ever happen as proving what we know to be true 
>>> would be difficult. Not impossible. We do have what is called a 
>>> Mergers and nonopoly commission but it too is being seen as a dog with
no teeth.
>>> Although it blocked a merger a few days ago between the two major 
>>> money markets, one in London and the other in @Germany from combining.
>>> They have some power but it is only token gesture.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There is a proposed merger between Rupert Murdoch and Sky tv. He 
>>> will be allowed to buy it despite criticism from other

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Jim via Talk]

Hi there!

Question, what is the source of your information about W.E. going away? 
I have seen nothing official from anyone regarding this issue and until 
I do, I will continue to believe that W.E. is ALIVE and KICKING! I am 
getting rather tire of seeing this same old topic being brought up over 
and over.  I do not wish to start any sort of heated debate on this 
subject I just want to see where all this so called information is 
actually coming from..?  Have A Great Day! de


.


On 31-Mar-17 11:12, Don H via Talk wrote:
If you think Window Eyes isn't going away I also have a nice bridge to 
sell you.  It is called the Golden Gate and I will sell it real cheap.


On 3/31/2017 12:59 AM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:

We don't know WE is going away.

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]

On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:26 PM
To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Hi Sky and List


I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.


I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and 
push
for a reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws. The 
number
of SMAs should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs would be 
given jaws

SMAs or the money paid toward their SMAs would be put toward the cost of
jaws.  Everyone should be given the convention price for jaws.


Just a thought,

Brenda


On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:

Hello Kevin and Vaughn.  Here are my thoughts on this. Had the blind
organisations had given Window-Eyes a chance,  Window-Eyes would not
have gotten extinct and this would not have happened.  Below, I'm
going to forward you guys some emails from a friend of mine who is on
this list, and I support him 100 percent!




Email 1:

Hi Sky,



Sadly that has been the way it has been since the start. As you said,
had the rnib, cnib, american league for th blind and so on favoured
window-eyes or even given it a chance. It would not be almost extinct
at this moment in time. It does make me angry. These people are
somehow escaping accountability for their acdtions. The entire system
has been geared towards Jaws continually. Every other screen reader
has become second rate because of the power wielded withing the blind
community. It's alright us saying this but actually proving it is
another matter. If it could be proved and despite all the negativity,
it could. Then what could happen? Telling the world about how a
ruthless power hungry organisation set out to control the world of the
blind with a screen reader? If people would back us up and not just
say that is what happened without saying I can prove it. To be able to
prove it would be the icing on the cake. It would show the rotten,
evil people at jaws who abused their power and in a way forced vendors
to favour jaws above other screen readers. If enough people were
prepared to come out and back us up we would have enough to at least 
make

those responcible for the blind to wake up and accept responcibility.




I doubt that will ever happen as proving what we know to be true would
be difficult. Not impossible. We do have what is called a Mergers and
nonopoly commission but it too is being seen as a dog with no teeth.
Although it blocked a merger a few days ago between the two major
money markets, one in London and the other in @Germany from combining.
They have some power but it is only token gesture.



There is a proposed merger between Rupert Murdoch and Sky tv. He will
be allowed to buy it despite criticism from other media cdompanies. He
owns the majority of the world's media and his control is beyond
anything that the world has seen before. There isn't much he doesn't
own and his political power is immeanse. That is the exact same as
jaws, the rnib, cnib and other organisations for the blind.



If it could be possible for witnesses to come forward and confirm what
we are saying. That would be at least a start. We could get up a
petition expressing our opinion of the bullying from these so called
institutions for the blind. bringing them to account. It may not do
very much but at least it would rock the boat for a short time and
always be part of the history of blind peoples lives in a corrupt and

overbearing system.





Email 2:




From: bj colt [mailto:bjc...@blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:34 AM
To: Sky Mundell
Subject: Re: window eyes proposal

Hi Sky,

I listened to the podcast from scun. I am not only disgusted but
really pissed off at VFO and with the presenters at the tech podcast.
~Why aren't they kicking up hell? Probably because they are jaws
users. I got that impression just by their attitude. Zoom text and
fusion was an AI squared and window-eyes conception. Not a VFO idea. I
did say that's why they bought out ai squared and it seems I was
right. They are going to unceremoniously dump window

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Brenda via Talk]

I too was hoping Window-Eyes would become a part of Microsoft. I'm 
wondering if the powers that be at Microsoft were not ready to deal with 
accessibility or maybe they thought they could do it themselves and 
didn't need GW Micro.  Whatever the case, things are as they are.  
Whether it is because of my visual impairment or not, I don't like 
change and suspect others have issues with change.  Nonetheless, change 
we must.



Brenda


On 3/31/2017 4:22 PM, Vaughan Dodd via Talk wrote:
Pam: I was amongst those who believed that possibility - for whatever 
reason it hasn't happened.




On 4/1/2017 3:22 AM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
When they did the free office offer, I thought that was what was in 
the process of happening: Microsoft purchasing window eyes to 
incorporate into windows, or, at least, making some kind of a deal 
with them.  Pam.


-Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:40 PM
To: Dave ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

I have said it before I don't know why Microsoft didn't just purchase
Window Eyes and incorporate it into windows.  GW had to have been in
serious finical trouble for letting AISquared purchase them when in fact
AIsquared must have been in trouble themselves for VFO having the
ability to purchase them.  I just have to think that Doug has to be
feeling really bad for how Window Eyes is going from the best screen
reader to the non existing one.

On 3/30/2017 8:18 PM, Dave via Talk wrote:

I'm usually able to grasp why Companies do what they do, but I've never
understood, from a Fiscal point of view, why GW Micro chose to give a
Free copy of Window Eyes to any Registered MS Office user.

Perhaps they had a deal with Microsoft to  receive a "Royalty" of some
kind for every person who took them up on the offer?  If this were 
true,
GW Micro must have been suffering some rough financial times, 
because for

every person taking advantage of the offer, would drain the number of
possible full paying customers.Maybe they were taking a Gamble and
thought because  Window Eyes would be Free for MS Office owners, just
maybe some Government agencies would start steering clients towards
Window Eyes, instead of paying $1100 for JAWS?

I don't know.  Never been able to make sense of it.


___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.


For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/geodom%40optonline.net.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.


For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/vdodd001%40vodafone.co.nz.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com




___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.


For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/bjnite%40windstream.net.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com





___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Vaughan Dodd via Talk]

Pam: I was amongst those who believed that possibility - for whatever 
reason it hasn't happened.




On 4/1/2017 3:22 AM, Pamela Dominguez via Talk wrote:
When they did the free office offer, I thought that was what was in 
the process of happening: Microsoft purchasing window eyes to 
incorporate into windows, or, at least, making some kind of a deal 
with them.  Pam.


-Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:40 PM
To: Dave ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

I have said it before I don't know why Microsoft didn't just purchase
Window Eyes and incorporate it into windows.  GW had to have been in
serious finical trouble for letting AISquared purchase them when in fact
AIsquared must have been in trouble themselves for VFO having the
ability to purchase them.  I just have to think that Doug has to be
feeling really bad for how Window Eyes is going from the best screen
reader to the non existing one.

On 3/30/2017 8:18 PM, Dave via Talk wrote:

I'm usually able to grasp why Companies do what they do, but I've never
understood, from a Fiscal point of view, why GW Micro chose to give a
Free copy of Window Eyes to any Registered MS Office user.

Perhaps they had a deal with Microsoft to  receive a "Royalty" of some
kind for every person who took them up on the offer?  If this were true,
GW Micro must have been suffering some rough financial times, because 
for

every person taking advantage of the offer, would drain the number of
possible full paying customers.Maybe they were taking a Gamble and
thought because  Window Eyes would be Free for MS Office owners, just
maybe some Government agencies would start steering clients towards
Window Eyes, instead of paying $1100 for JAWS?

I don't know.  Never been able to make sense of it.


___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.


For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/geodom%40optonline.net.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.


For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/vdodd001%40vodafone.co.nz.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com




___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Vaughan Dodd via Talk]

I think the stability matter is definitely a consideration.  My 
perspective is that we have to thank Microsoft and Windows for some of 
this.  Also: JAWS has become so large, with lots of coplexities, that it 
sometyimes seems to me that things have been bolted on to it.



At work, after a few days of continuous use, it is slightly better than 
Window-Eyes; here at home it is a great deal better. Different 
processors, general pc configurations etc.  Hard to compare apples with 
oranges across multiple installations.



Best.



Vaughan.






On 3/31/2017 11:52 PM, Steve Nutt via Talk wrote:

Hi Vaughan,

To a point, I agree with you.  However, I have been deliberately using JAWS
18 this week as opposed to Window-Eyes, and it is far less stable.

So while it would be difficult to continue using Window-Eyes, should it not
get updated, JAWS is really quite an unstable mess with some programs.

All the best

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: 30 March 2017 21:03
To: 'bjn...@windstream.net' <bjn...@windstream.net>; 'Window-Eyes Discussion
List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Agree with the below.

How many people took up my suggestion, shared with the list, of drawing your
concerns to the Chief Executive, or someone appropriately senior who can
make decisions of the type which Brenda has suggested.

I've personally gone past being sentimental  about Window-eyes.  It is not a
work In progress anymore from my standpoint, and in free countries - people
can choose to stand on principle or be pragmatic and make best use of the
tools available.

Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
Sent: Friday, 31 March 2017 6:26 a.m.
To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Hi Sky and List


I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.


I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and push
for a reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws.  The number
of SMAs should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs would be given jaws
SMAs or the money paid toward their SMAs would be put toward the cost of
jaws.  Everyone should be given the convention price for jaws.


Just a thought,

Brenda


On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:

Hello Kevin and Vaughn.  Here are my thoughts on this. Had the blind
organisations had given Window-Eyes a chance,  Window-Eyes would not
have gotten extinct and this would not have happened.  Below, I'm
going to forward you guys some emails from a friend of mine who is on
this list, and I support him 100 percent!




Email 1:

Hi Sky,



Sadly that has been the way it has been since the start. As you said,
had the rnib, cnib, american league for th blind and so on favoured
window-eyes or even given it a chance. It would not be almost extinct
at this moment in time. It does make me angry. These people are
somehow escaping accountability for their acdtions. The entire system
has been geared towards Jaws continually. Every other screen reader
has become second rate because of the power wielded withing the blind
community. It's alright us saying this but actually proving it is
another matter. If it could be proved and despite all the negativity,
it could. Then what could happen? Telling the world about how a
ruthless power hungry organisation set out to control the world of the
blind with a screen reader? If people would back us up and not just
say that is what happened without saying I can prove it. To be able to
prove it would be the icing on the cake. It would show the rotten,
evil people at jaws who abused their power and in a way forced vendors
to favour jaws above other screen readers. If enough people were
prepared to come out and back us up we would have enough to at least make

those responcible for the blind to wake up and accept responcibility.



I doubt that will ever happen as proving what we know to be true would
be difficult. Not impossible. We do have what is called a Mergers and
nonopoly commission but it too is being seen as a dog with no teeth.
Although it blocked a merger a few days ago between the two major
money markets, one in London and the other in @Germany from combining.
They have some power but it is only token gesture.



There is a proposed merger between Rupert Murdoch and Sky tv. He will
be allowed to buy it despite criticism from other media cdompanies. He
owns the majority of the world's media and his control is beyond
anything that the world has seen before. There isn't much he doesn't
own and his political power is immeanse. That is the exact same as
jaws, the rnib, cnib and other organisations for the blind.



If it could be possible for witnesses to come forward and 

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Don H via Talk]

If you think Window Eyes isn't going away I also have a nice bridge to 
sell you.  It is called the Golden Gate and I will sell it real cheap.


On 3/31/2017 12:59 AM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:

We don't know WE is going away.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:26 PM
To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Hi Sky and List


I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.


I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and push
for a reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws.  The number
of SMAs should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs would be given jaws
SMAs or the money paid toward their SMAs would be put toward the cost of
jaws.  Everyone should be given the convention price for jaws.


Just a thought,

Brenda


On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:

Hello Kevin and Vaughn.  Here are my thoughts on this. Had the blind
organisations had given Window-Eyes a chance,  Window-Eyes would not
have gotten extinct and this would not have happened.  Below, I'm
going to forward you guys some emails from a friend of mine who is on
this list, and I support him 100 percent!




Email 1:

Hi Sky,



Sadly that has been the way it has been since the start. As you said,
had the rnib, cnib, american league for th blind and so on favoured
window-eyes or even given it a chance. It would not be almost extinct
at this moment in time. It does make me angry. These people are
somehow escaping accountability for their acdtions. The entire system
has been geared towards Jaws continually. Every other screen reader
has become second rate because of the power wielded withing the blind
community. It's alright us saying this but actually proving it is
another matter. If it could be proved and despite all the negativity,
it could. Then what could happen? Telling the world about how a
ruthless power hungry organisation set out to control the world of the
blind with a screen reader? If people would back us up and not just
say that is what happened without saying I can prove it. To be able to
prove it would be the icing on the cake. It would show the rotten,
evil people at jaws who abused their power and in a way forced vendors
to favour jaws above other screen readers. If enough people were
prepared to come out and back us up we would have enough to at least make

those responcible for the blind to wake up and accept responcibility.




I doubt that will ever happen as proving what we know to be true would
be difficult. Not impossible. We do have what is called a Mergers and
nonopoly commission but it too is being seen as a dog with no teeth.
Although it blocked a merger a few days ago between the two major
money markets, one in London and the other in @Germany from combining.
They have some power but it is only token gesture.



There is a proposed merger between Rupert Murdoch and Sky tv. He will
be allowed to buy it despite criticism from other media cdompanies. He
owns the majority of the world's media and his control is beyond
anything that the world has seen before. There isn't much he doesn't
own and his political power is immeanse. That is the exact same as
jaws, the rnib, cnib and other organisations for the blind.



If it could be possible for witnesses to come forward and confirm what
we are saying. That would be at least a start. We could get up a
petition expressing our opinion of the bullying from these so called
institutions for the blind. bringing them to account. It may not do
very much but at least it would rock the boat for a short time and
always be part of the history of blind peoples lives in a corrupt and

overbearing system.





Email 2:




From: bj colt [mailto:bjc...@blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:34 AM
To: Sky Mundell
Subject: Re: window eyes proposal

Hi Sky,

I listened to the podcast from scun. I am not only disgusted but
really pissed off at VFO and with the presenters at the tech podcast.
~Why aren't they kicking up hell? Probably because they are jaws
users. I got that impression just by their attitude. Zoom text and
fusion was an AI squared and window-eyes conception. Not a VFO idea. I
did say that's why they bought out ai squared and it seems I was
right. They are going to unceremoniously dump window-eyes. No new
updadtes, no upgrades, nothing, no development. The list really has to
do something at this stage. We really have to get together and make
sure VFO are aware of our feelings. Everyone who has paid for sma's
are now entitled to a full refund, no questions asked. No development
means no upgrades, no upgrades equals no need for sma's. No sma's means

they are stealing our money under false pretences.


This time things have gone too far. Something has to be done, whether
it is a petition, legal action to force VFO to state

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Pamela Dominguez via Talk]

When they did the free office offer, I thought that was what was in the 
process of happening: Microsoft purchasing window eyes to incorporate into 
windows, or, at least, making some kind of a deal with them.  Pam.


-Original Message- 
From: Don H via Talk

Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:40 PM
To: Dave ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

I have said it before I don't know why Microsoft didn't just purchase
Window Eyes and incorporate it into windows.  GW had to have been in
serious finical trouble for letting AISquared purchase them when in fact
AIsquared must have been in trouble themselves for VFO having the
ability to purchase them.  I just have to think that Doug has to be
feeling really bad for how Window Eyes is going from the best screen
reader to the non existing one.

On 3/30/2017 8:18 PM, Dave via Talk wrote:

I'm usually able to grasp why Companies do what they do, but I've never
understood, from a Fiscal point of view, why GW Micro chose to give a
Free copy of Window Eyes to any Registered MS Office user.

Perhaps they had a deal with Microsoft to  receive a "Royalty" of some
kind for every person who took them up on the offer?  If this were true,
GW Micro must have been suffering some rough financial times, because for
every person taking advantage of the offer, would drain the number of
possible full paying customers.Maybe they were taking a Gamble and
thought because  Window Eyes would be Free for MS Office owners, just
maybe some Government agencies would start steering clients towards
Window Eyes, instead of paying $1100 for JAWS?

I don't know.  Never been able to make sense of it.


___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.


For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/geodom%40optonline.net.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com 


___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Singing Sparrow via Talk]

from what i  heard from an employee from VFO window eyes developement  
and other resources will be drastically stopped the efforts will be 
going towards Jaws and Zoomtext



On 3/31/2017 12:59 AM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:

We don't know WE is going away.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:26 PM
To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Hi Sky and List


I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.


I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and push
for a reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws.  The number
of SMAs should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs would be given jaws
SMAs or the money paid toward their SMAs would be put toward the cost of
jaws.  Everyone should be given the convention price for jaws.


Just a thought,

Brenda


On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:

Hello Kevin and Vaughn.  Here are my thoughts on this. Had the blind
organisations had given Window-Eyes a chance,  Window-Eyes would not
have gotten extinct and this would not have happened.  Below, I'm
going to forward you guys some emails from a friend of mine who is on
this list, and I support him 100 percent!




Email 1:

Hi Sky,
   

   
Sadly that has been the way it has been since the start. As you said,

had the rnib, cnib, american league for th blind and so on favoured
window-eyes or even given it a chance. It would not be almost extinct
at this moment in time. It does make me angry. These people are
somehow escaping accountability for their acdtions. The entire system
has been geared towards Jaws continually. Every other screen reader
has become second rate because of the power wielded withing the blind
community. It's alright us saying this but actually proving it is
another matter. If it could be proved and despite all the negativity,
it could. Then what could happen? Telling the world about how a
ruthless power hungry organisation set out to control the world of the
blind with a screen reader? If people would back us up and not just
say that is what happened without saying I can prove it. To be able to
prove it would be the icing on the cake. It would show the rotten,
evil people at jaws who abused their power and in a way forced vendors
to favour jaws above other screen readers. If enough people were
prepared to come out and back us up we would have enough to at least make

those responcible for the blind to wake up and accept responcibility.
   

   
I doubt that will ever happen as proving what we know to be true would

be difficult. Not impossible. We do have what is called a Mergers and
nonopoly commission but it too is being seen as a dog with no teeth.
Although it blocked a merger a few days ago between the two major
money markets, one in London and the other in @Germany from combining.
They have some power but it is only token gesture.
   

   
There is a proposed merger between Rupert Murdoch and Sky tv. He will

be allowed to buy it despite criticism from other media cdompanies. He
owns the majority of the world's media and his control is beyond
anything that the world has seen before. There isn't much he doesn't
own and his political power is immeanse. That is the exact same as
jaws, the rnib, cnib and other organisations for the blind.
   

   
If it could be possible for witnesses to come forward and confirm what

we are saying. That would be at least a start. We could get up a
petition expressing our opinion of the bullying from these so called
institutions for the blind. bringing them to account. It may not do
very much but at least it would rock the boat for a short time and
always be part of the history of blind peoples lives in a corrupt and

overbearing system.
 




Email 2:




From: bj colt [mailto:bjc...@blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:34 AM
To: Sky Mundell
Subject: Re: window eyes proposal

Hi Sky,
   
I listened to the podcast from scun. I am not only disgusted but

really pissed off at VFO and with the presenters at the tech podcast.
~Why aren't they kicking up hell? Probably because they are jaws
users. I got that impression just by their attitude. Zoom text and
fusion was an AI squared and window-eyes conception. Not a VFO idea. I
did say that's why they bought out ai squared and it seems I was
right. They are going to unceremoniously dump window-eyes. No new
updadtes, no upgrades, nothing, no development. The list really has to
do something at this stage. We really have to get together and make
sure VFO are aware of our feelings. Everyone who has paid for sma's
are now entitled to a full refund, no questions asked. No development
means no upgrades, no upgrades equals no need for sma's. No sma's means

they are stealing our money under false pretences.
   
This time things have gone too far

RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Vaughan,

I really doubt that Window-Eyes  really needs much tweaking anymore in order to 
stay current.
Windows 10 isn't changing much.

Best,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 5:06 AM
To: Dennis Long <dennisl1...@gmail.com>; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

It won't go away so long as people have copies.

However: is it being developed? Is it ready for the numerous challenges 
as technology and access to it goes through a whole range of 
transformations and innovations?

Vaughan.


Vaughan.



On 3/31/2017 6:59 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:
> We don't know WE is going away.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:26 PM
> To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>
> Hi Sky and List
>
>
> I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.
>
>
> I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and push
> for a reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws.  The number
> of SMAs should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs would be given jaws
> SMAs or the money paid toward their SMAs would be put toward the cost of
> jaws.  Everyone should be given the convention price for jaws.
>
>
> Just a thought,
>
> Brenda
>
>
> On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
>> Hello Kevin and Vaughn.  Here are my thoughts on this. Had the blind
>> organisations had given Window-Eyes a chance,  Window-Eyes would not
>> have gotten extinct and this would not have happened.  Below, I'm
>> going to forward you guys some emails from a friend of mine who is on
>> this list, and I support him 100 percent!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Email 1:
>>
>> Hi Sky,
>>
>> 
>>
>> Sadly that has been the way it has been since the start. As you said,
>> had the rnib, cnib, american league for th blind and so on favoured
>> window-eyes or even given it a chance. It would not be almost extinct
>> at this moment in time. It does make me angry. These people are
>> somehow escaping accountability for their acdtions. The entire system
>> has been geared towards Jaws continually. Every other screen reader
>> has become second rate because of the power wielded withing the blind
>> community. It's alright us saying this but actually proving it is
>> another matter. If it could be proved and despite all the negativity,
>> it could. Then what could happen? Telling the world about how a
>> ruthless power hungry organisation set out to control the world of the
>> blind with a screen reader? If people would back us up and not just
>> say that is what happened without saying I can prove it. To be able to
>> prove it would be the icing on the cake. It would show the rotten,
>> evil people at jaws who abused their power and in a way forced vendors
>> to favour jaws above other screen readers. If enough people were
>> prepared to come out and back us up we would have enough to at least make
> those responcible for the blind to wake up and accept responcibility.
>>
>> 
>>
>> I doubt that will ever happen as proving what we know to be true would
>> be difficult. Not impossible. We do have what is called a Mergers and
>> nonopoly commission but it too is being seen as a dog with no teeth.
>> Although it blocked a merger a few days ago between the two major
>> money markets, one in London and the other in @Germany from combining.
>> They have some power but it is only token gesture.
>>
>> 
>>
>> There is a proposed merger between Rupert Murdoch and Sky tv. He will
>> be allowed to buy it despite criticism from other media cdompanies. He
>> owns the majority of the world's media and his control is beyond
>> anything that the world has seen before. There isn't much he doesn't
>> own and his political power is immeanse. That is the exact same as
>> jaws, the rnib, cnib and other organisations for the blind.
>>
>> 
>>
>> If it could be possible for witnesses to come forward and confirm what
>> we are saying. That would be at least a start. We could get up a
>> petition expressing our opinion of the bullying from these so called
>> institutions for the blind. bringing them to account. It may not do
>> very much but at le

RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Steve Nutt via Talk]

Hi Vaughan,

To a point, I agree with you.  However, I have been deliberately using JAWS
18 this week as opposed to Window-Eyes, and it is far less stable.

So while it would be difficult to continue using Window-Eyes, should it not
get updated, JAWS is really quite an unstable mess with some programs.

All the best

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: 30 March 2017 21:03
To: 'bjn...@windstream.net' <bjn...@windstream.net>; 'Window-Eyes Discussion
List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Agree with the below.

How many people took up my suggestion, shared with the list, of drawing your
concerns to the Chief Executive, or someone appropriately senior who can
make decisions of the type which Brenda has suggested.

I've personally gone past being sentimental  about Window-eyes.  It is not a
work In progress anymore from my standpoint, and in free countries - people
can choose to stand on principle or be pragmatic and make best use of the
tools available.

Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
Sent: Friday, 31 March 2017 6:26 a.m.
To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Hi Sky and List


I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.


I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and push
for a reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws.  The number
of SMAs should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs would be given jaws
SMAs or the money paid toward their SMAs would be put toward the cost of
jaws.  Everyone should be given the convention price for jaws.


Just a thought,

Brenda


On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
> Hello Kevin and Vaughn.  Here are my thoughts on this. Had the blind 
> organisations had given Window-Eyes a chance,  Window-Eyes would not 
> have gotten extinct and this would not have happened.  Below, I'm 
> going to forward you guys some emails from a friend of mine who is on 
> this list, and I support him 100 percent!
>
>
>
>
> Email 1:
>
> Hi Sky,
>
>
>
> Sadly that has been the way it has been since the start. As you said, 
> had the rnib, cnib, american league for th blind and so on favoured 
> window-eyes or even given it a chance. It would not be almost extinct 
> at this moment in time. It does make me angry. These people are 
> somehow escaping accountability for their acdtions. The entire system 
> has been geared towards Jaws continually. Every other screen reader 
> has become second rate because of the power wielded withing the blind 
> community. It's alright us saying this but actually proving it is 
> another matter. If it could be proved and despite all the negativity, 
> it could. Then what could happen? Telling the world about how a 
> ruthless power hungry organisation set out to control the world of the 
> blind with a screen reader? If people would back us up and not just 
> say that is what happened without saying I can prove it. To be able to 
> prove it would be the icing on the cake. It would show the rotten, 
> evil people at jaws who abused their power and in a way forced vendors 
> to favour jaws above other screen readers. If enough people were 
> prepared to come out and back us up we would have enough to at least make
those responcible for the blind to wake up and accept responcibility.
>
>
>
> I doubt that will ever happen as proving what we know to be true would 
> be difficult. Not impossible. We do have what is called a Mergers and 
> nonopoly commission but it too is being seen as a dog with no teeth.
> Although it blocked a merger a few days ago between the two major 
> money markets, one in London and the other in @Germany from combining.
> They have some power but it is only token gesture.
>
>
>
> There is a proposed merger between Rupert Murdoch and Sky tv. He will 
> be allowed to buy it despite criticism from other media cdompanies. He 
> owns the majority of the world's media and his control is beyond 
> anything that the world has seen before. There isn't much he doesn't 
> own and his political power is immeanse. That is the exact same as 
> jaws, the rnib, cnib and other organisations for the blind.
>
>
>
> If it could be possible for witnesses to come forward and confirm what 
> we are saying. That would be at least a start. We could get up a 
> petition expressing our opinion of the bullying from these so called 
> institutions for the blind. bringing them to account. It may not do 
> very much but at least it would rock the boat for a short time and 
> always be pa

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Vaughan Dodd via Talk]

It won't go away so long as people have copies.

However: is it being developed? Is it ready for the numerous challenges 
as technology and access to it goes through a whole range of 
transformations and innovations?


Vaughan.


Vaughan.



On 3/31/2017 6:59 PM, Dennis Long via Talk wrote:

We don't know WE is going away.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:26 PM
To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Hi Sky and List


I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.


I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and push
for a reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws.  The number
of SMAs should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs would be given jaws
SMAs or the money paid toward their SMAs would be put toward the cost of
jaws.  Everyone should be given the convention price for jaws.


Just a thought,

Brenda


On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:

Hello Kevin and Vaughn.  Here are my thoughts on this. Had the blind
organisations had given Window-Eyes a chance,  Window-Eyes would not
have gotten extinct and this would not have happened.  Below, I'm
going to forward you guys some emails from a friend of mine who is on
this list, and I support him 100 percent!




Email 1:

Hi Sky,
   

   
Sadly that has been the way it has been since the start. As you said,

had the rnib, cnib, american league for th blind and so on favoured
window-eyes or even given it a chance. It would not be almost extinct
at this moment in time. It does make me angry. These people are
somehow escaping accountability for their acdtions. The entire system
has been geared towards Jaws continually. Every other screen reader
has become second rate because of the power wielded withing the blind
community. It's alright us saying this but actually proving it is
another matter. If it could be proved and despite all the negativity,
it could. Then what could happen? Telling the world about how a
ruthless power hungry organisation set out to control the world of the
blind with a screen reader? If people would back us up and not just
say that is what happened without saying I can prove it. To be able to
prove it would be the icing on the cake. It would show the rotten,
evil people at jaws who abused their power and in a way forced vendors
to favour jaws above other screen readers. If enough people were
prepared to come out and back us up we would have enough to at least make

those responcible for the blind to wake up and accept responcibility.
   

   
I doubt that will ever happen as proving what we know to be true would

be difficult. Not impossible. We do have what is called a Mergers and
nonopoly commission but it too is being seen as a dog with no teeth.
Although it blocked a merger a few days ago between the two major
money markets, one in London and the other in @Germany from combining.
They have some power but it is only token gesture.
   

   
There is a proposed merger between Rupert Murdoch and Sky tv. He will

be allowed to buy it despite criticism from other media cdompanies. He
owns the majority of the world's media and his control is beyond
anything that the world has seen before. There isn't much he doesn't
own and his political power is immeanse. That is the exact same as
jaws, the rnib, cnib and other organisations for the blind.
   

   
If it could be possible for witnesses to come forward and confirm what

we are saying. That would be at least a start. We could get up a
petition expressing our opinion of the bullying from these so called
institutions for the blind. bringing them to account. It may not do
very much but at least it would rock the boat for a short time and
always be part of the history of blind peoples lives in a corrupt and

overbearing system.
 




Email 2:




From: bj colt [mailto:bjc...@blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:34 AM
To: Sky Mundell
Subject: Re: window eyes proposal

Hi Sky,
   
I listened to the podcast from scun. I am not only disgusted but

really pissed off at VFO and with the presenters at the tech podcast.
~Why aren't they kicking up hell? Probably because they are jaws
users. I got that impression just by their attitude. Zoom text and
fusion was an AI squared and window-eyes conception. Not a VFO idea. I
did say that's why they bought out ai squared and it seems I was
right. They are going to unceremoniously dump window-eyes. No new
updadtes, no upgrades, nothing, no development. The list really has to
do something at this stage. We really have to get together and make
sure VFO are aware of our feelings. Everyone who has paid for sma's
are now entitled to a full refund, no questions asked. No development
means no upgrades, no upgrades equals no need for sma's. No sma's means

they are stealing our money

RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Dennis Long via Talk]

We don't know WE is going away.

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+dennisl1982=gmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:26 PM
To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Hi Sky and List


I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.


I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and push
for a reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws.  The number
of SMAs should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs would be given jaws
SMAs or the money paid toward their SMAs would be put toward the cost of
jaws.  Everyone should be given the convention price for jaws.


Just a thought,

Brenda


On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
> Hello Kevin and Vaughn.  Here are my thoughts on this. Had the blind 
> organisations had given Window-Eyes a chance,  Window-Eyes would not 
> have gotten extinct and this would not have happened.  Below, I'm 
> going to forward you guys some emails from a friend of mine who is on 
> this list, and I support him 100 percent!
>
>
>
>
> Email 1:
>
> Hi Sky,
>   
>
>   
> Sadly that has been the way it has been since the start. As you said, 
> had the rnib, cnib, american league for th blind and so on favoured 
> window-eyes or even given it a chance. It would not be almost extinct 
> at this moment in time. It does make me angry. These people are 
> somehow escaping accountability for their acdtions. The entire system 
> has been geared towards Jaws continually. Every other screen reader 
> has become second rate because of the power wielded withing the blind 
> community. It's alright us saying this but actually proving it is 
> another matter. If it could be proved and despite all the negativity, 
> it could. Then what could happen? Telling the world about how a 
> ruthless power hungry organisation set out to control the world of the 
> blind with a screen reader? If people would back us up and not just 
> say that is what happened without saying I can prove it. To be able to 
> prove it would be the icing on the cake. It would show the rotten, 
> evil people at jaws who abused their power and in a way forced vendors 
> to favour jaws above other screen readers. If enough people were 
> prepared to come out and back us up we would have enough to at least make
those responcible for the blind to wake up and accept responcibility.
>   
>
>   
> I doubt that will ever happen as proving what we know to be true would 
> be difficult. Not impossible. We do have what is called a Mergers and 
> nonopoly commission but it too is being seen as a dog with no teeth. 
> Although it blocked a merger a few days ago between the two major 
> money markets, one in London and the other in @Germany from combining. 
> They have some power but it is only token gesture.
>   
>
>   
> There is a proposed merger between Rupert Murdoch and Sky tv. He will 
> be allowed to buy it despite criticism from other media cdompanies. He 
> owns the majority of the world's media and his control is beyond 
> anything that the world has seen before. There isn't much he doesn't 
> own and his political power is immeanse. That is the exact same as 
> jaws, the rnib, cnib and other organisations for the blind.
>   
>
>   
> If it could be possible for witnesses to come forward and confirm what 
> we are saying. That would be at least a start. We could get up a 
> petition expressing our opinion of the bullying from these so called 
> institutions for the blind. bringing them to account. It may not do 
> very much but at least it would rock the boat for a short time and 
> always be part of the history of blind peoples lives in a corrupt and
overbearing system.
> 
>
>
>
> Email 2:
>
>
>
>
> From: bj colt [mailto:bjc...@blueyonder.co.uk]
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:34 AM
> To: Sky Mundell
> Subject: Re: window eyes proposal
>
> Hi Sky,
>   
> I listened to the podcast from scun. I am not only disgusted but 
> really pissed off at VFO and with the presenters at the tech podcast. 
> ~Why aren't they kicking up hell? Probably because they are jaws 
> users. I got that impression just by their attitude. Zoom text and 
> fusion was an AI squared and window-eyes conception. Not a VFO idea. I 
> did say that's why they bought out ai squared and it seems I was 
> right. They are going to unceremoniously dump window-eyes. No new 
> updadtes, no upgrades, nothing, no development. The list really has to 
> do something at this stage. We really have to get together and make 
> sure VFO are aware of our feelings. Everyone who has paid for sma's 
> are now entitl

RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

In fact, this office deal of Window-Eyes was how I was able to get it into
institutions for the disabled here in Canada.  They used JAWS but I
convinced A few organisations,  Disabillity resource centre here in
Victoria, and Neil Squire in Vancouver as well as our local library that if
they went with the free version of Window-Eyes they could save a lot of
money pluss these organisations never had Window-Eyes as an option and that
was because of the favouritism of JAWS over any other product. CNIB had
Window-Eyes on the computers in the tech lab but promoted JAWS over
Window-Eyes and it was due to more money from the venders. I saw the free
office deal as a way to put Window-Eyes in organisations in Canada.
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Vaughan Dodd via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:34 PM
To: 'Dave'; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Hi Dave.

I think similarly.  And what upset me about this in particular is that the
industry insiders swallowed the press releases hook, line and sinker.

And: as a loyal paying customer for by then 18 years, I resented the deal as
being a sign that we weren't getting much more than those who went for the
free option.

It is all now part of history, and we can't change what has happened.  But
the whole arrangement was not transparent, and it was a very poor business
decision, coupled with disrespect for the payhing customers.

Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Dave via Talk
Sent: Friday, 31 March 2017 2:18 p.m.
To: Kevin Huber; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

I'm usually able to grasp why Companies do what they do, but I've never
understood, from a Fiscal point of view, why GW Micro chose to give a Free
copy of Window Eyes to any Registered MS Office user.  

Perhaps they had a deal with Microsoft to  receive a "Royalty" of some kind
for every person who took them up on the offer?  If this were true, GW Micro
must have been suffering some rough financial times, because for every
person taking advantage of the offer, would drain the number of
possible full paying customers.Maybe they were taking a Gamble and
thought because  Window Eyes would be Free for MS Office owners, just maybe
some Government agencies would start steering clients towards Window Eyes,
instead of paying $1100 for JAWS?  

I don't know.  Never been able to make sense of it.  
--
Perhaps some of you out there might have some other thoughts on why there
was a Free version for MS Office users.  

Grumpy Dave


Dave <dlh...@centurylink.net>

___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/vaughan.dodd00
1%40msd.govt.nz.
For subscription options, visit
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

---
This email and any attachments may contain information that is confidential
and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any
use, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this email and
attachments is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please
notify the author immediately and erase all copies of the email and
attachments. The Ministry of Social Development accepts no responsibility
for changes made to this message or attachments after transmission from the
Ministry.

---
___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/skyt%40shaw.ca
.
For subscription options, visit
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Don H via Talk]

I have said it before I don't know why Microsoft didn't just purchase 
Window Eyes and incorporate it into windows.  GW had to have been in 
serious finical trouble for letting AISquared purchase them when in fact 
AIsquared must have been in trouble themselves for VFO having the 
ability to purchase them.  I just have to think that Doug has to be 
feeling really bad for how Window Eyes is going from the best screen 
reader to the non existing one.


On 3/30/2017 8:18 PM, Dave via Talk wrote:

I'm usually able to grasp why Companies do what they do, but I've never
understood, from a Fiscal point of view, why GW Micro chose to give a
Free copy of Window Eyes to any Registered MS Office user.

Perhaps they had a deal with Microsoft to  receive a "Royalty" of some
kind for every person who took them up on the offer?  If this were true,
GW Micro must have been suffering some rough financial times, because for
every person taking advantage of the offer, would drain the number of
possible full paying customers.Maybe they were taking a Gamble and
thought because  Window Eyes would be Free for MS Office owners, just
maybe some Government agencies would start steering clients towards
Window Eyes, instead of paying $1100 for JAWS?

I don't know.  Never been able to make sense of it.


___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Vaughan Dodd via Talk]

Hi Dave.

I think similarly.  And what upset me about this in particular is that the 
industry insiders swallowed the press releases hook, line and sinker.

And: as a loyal paying customer for by then 18 years, I resented the deal as 
being a sign that we weren't getting much more than those who went for the free 
option.

It is all now part of history, and we can't change what has happened.  But the 
whole arrangement was not transparent, and it was a very poor business 
decision, coupled with disrespect for the payhing customers.

Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Dave via Talk
Sent: Friday, 31 March 2017 2:18 p.m.
To: Kevin Huber; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

I'm usually able to grasp why Companies do what they do, but I've never 
understood, from a Fiscal point of view, why GW Micro chose to give a Free copy 
of Window Eyes to any Registered MS Office user.  

Perhaps they had a deal with Microsoft to  receive a "Royalty" of some kind for 
every person who took them up on the offer?  If this were true, GW Micro must 
have been suffering some rough financial times, because for every person taking 
advantage of the offer, would drain the number of
possible full paying customers.Maybe they were taking a Gamble and
thought because  Window Eyes would be Free for MS Office owners, just maybe 
some Government agencies would start steering clients towards Window Eyes, 
instead of paying $1100 for JAWS?  

I don't know.  Never been able to make sense of it.  
--
Perhaps some of you out there might have some other thoughts on why there was a 
Free version for MS Office users.  

Grumpy Dave


Dave <dlh...@centurylink.net>

___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/vaughan.dodd001%40msd.govt.nz.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

---
This email and any attachments may contain information that is confidential and 
subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, 
dissemination, distribution or duplication of this email and attachments is 
prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the author 
immediately and erase all copies of the email and attachments. The Ministry of 
Social Development accepts no responsibility for changes made to this message 
or attachments after transmission from the Ministry.

---
___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Dave via Talk]

I'm usually able to grasp why Companies do what they do, but I've never
understood, from a Fiscal point of view, why GW Micro chose to give a
Free copy of Window Eyes to any Registered MS Office user.  

Perhaps they had a deal with Microsoft to  receive a "Royalty" of some
kind for every person who took them up on the offer?  If this were true,
GW Micro must have been suffering some rough financial times, because for
every person taking advantage of the offer, would drain the number of
possible full paying customers.Maybe they were taking a Gamble and
thought because  Window Eyes would be Free for MS Office owners, just
maybe some Government agencies would start steering clients towards
Window Eyes, instead of paying $1100 for JAWS?  

I don't know.  Never been able to make sense of it.  
-- 
Perhaps some of you out there might have some other thoughts on why
there was a Free version for MS Office users.  

Grumpy Dave


Dave 

___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Reeva Webb via Talk]

I don't want it but I agree. Anyone with valid paid for we and zt fusion
window-eyes version and sma's. Since they killing the programs off, should
either get credit towards purchase or discounted jfw/ zt fusion jaws
version.

"the world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho

Reeva

On Mar 30, 2017 3:03 PM, "Vaughan Dodd via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
wrote:

> Agree with the below.
>
> How many people took up my suggestion, shared with the list, of drawing
> your concerns to the Chief Executive, or someone appropriately senior who
> can make decisions of the type which Brenda has suggested.
>
> I've personally gone past being sentimental  about Window-eyes.  It is not
> a work In progress anymore from my standpoint, and in free countries -
> people can choose to stand on principle or be pragmatic and make best use
> of the tools available.
>
> Vaughan.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt.nz@lists.
> window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
> Sent: Friday, 31 March 2017 6:26 a.m.
> To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>
> Hi Sky and List
>
>
> I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.
>
>
> I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and push
> for a reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws.  The number
> of SMAs should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs would be given jaws
> SMAs or the money paid toward their SMAs would be put toward the cost of
> jaws.  Everyone should be given the convention price for jaws.
>
>
> Just a thought,
>
> Brenda
>
>
> On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
> > Hello Kevin and Vaughn.  Here are my thoughts on this. Had the blind
> > organisations had given Window-Eyes a chance,  Window-Eyes would not
> > have gotten extinct and this would not have happened.  Below, I'm
> > going to forward you guys some emails from a friend of mine who is on
> > this list, and I support him 100 percent!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Email 1:
> >
> > Hi Sky,
> >
> >
> >
> > Sadly that has been the way it has been since the start. As you said,
> > had the rnib, cnib, american league for th blind and so on favoured
> > window-eyes or even given it a chance. It would not be almost extinct
> > at this moment in time. It does make me angry. These people are
> > somehow escaping accountability for their acdtions. The entire system
> > has been geared towards Jaws continually. Every other screen reader
> > has become second rate because of the power wielded withing the blind
> > community. It's alright us saying this but actually proving it is
> > another matter. If it could be proved and despite all the negativity,
> > it could. Then what could happen? Telling the world about how a
> > ruthless power hungry organisation set out to control the world of the
> > blind with a screen reader? If people would back us up and not just
> > say that is what happened without saying I can prove it. To be able to
> > prove it would be the icing on the cake. It would show the rotten,
> > evil people at jaws who abused their power and in a way forced vendors
> > to favour jaws above other screen readers. If enough people were
> > prepared to come out and back us up we would have enough to at least
> make those responcible for the blind to wake up and accept responcibility.
> >
> >
> >
> > I doubt that will ever happen as proving what we know to be true would
> > be difficult. Not impossible. We do have what is called a Mergers and
> > nonopoly commission but it too is being seen as a dog with no teeth.
> > Although it blocked a merger a few days ago between the two major
> > money markets, one in London and the other in @Germany from combining.
> > They have some power but it is only token gesture.
> >
> >
> >
> > There is a proposed merger between Rupert Murdoch and Sky tv. He will
> > be allowed to buy it despite criticism from other media cdompanies. He
> > owns the majority of the world's media and his control is beyond
> > anything that the world has seen before. There isn't much he doesn't
> > own and his political power is immeanse. That is the exact same as
> > jaws, the rnib, cnib and other organisations for the blind.
> >
> >
> >
> > If it could be possible for witnesses to come forward and confirm what
> > we are saying. That would be at

RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Vaughan Dodd via Talk]

Agree with the below.

How many people took up my suggestion, shared with the list, of drawing your 
concerns to the Chief Executive, or someone appropriately senior who can make 
decisions of the type which Brenda has suggested.

I've personally gone past being sentimental  about Window-eyes.  It is not a 
work In progress anymore from my standpoint, and in free countries - people can 
choose to stand on principle or be pragmatic and make best use of the tools 
available.

Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Brenda via Talk
Sent: Friday, 31 March 2017 6:26 a.m.
To: Sky Mundell; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Hi Sky and List


I think it is beyond the point of saving Window-Eyes.


I think what folks on this list need to do now is to contact VFO and push for a 
reasonable price to transition from Window-Eyes to jaws.  The number of SMAs 
should be considered so perhaps those with SMAs would be given jaws SMAs or the 
money paid toward their SMAs would be put toward the cost of jaws.  Everyone 
should be given the convention price for jaws.


Just a thought,

Brenda


On 3/30/2017 12:38 PM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
> Hello Kevin and Vaughn.  Here are my thoughts on this. Had the blind
> organisations had given Window-Eyes a chance,  Window-Eyes would not
> have gotten extinct and this would not have happened.  Below, I'm
> going to forward you guys some emails from a friend of mine who is on
> this list, and I support him 100 percent!
>
>
>
>
> Email 1:
>
> Hi Sky,
>
>
>
> Sadly that has been the way it has been since the start. As you said,
> had the rnib, cnib, american league for th blind and so on favoured
> window-eyes or even given it a chance. It would not be almost extinct
> at this moment in time. It does make me angry. These people are
> somehow escaping accountability for their acdtions. The entire system
> has been geared towards Jaws continually. Every other screen reader
> has become second rate because of the power wielded withing the blind
> community. It's alright us saying this but actually proving it is
> another matter. If it could be proved and despite all the negativity,
> it could. Then what could happen? Telling the world about how a
> ruthless power hungry organisation set out to control the world of the
> blind with a screen reader? If people would back us up and not just
> say that is what happened without saying I can prove it. To be able to
> prove it would be the icing on the cake. It would show the rotten,
> evil people at jaws who abused their power and in a way forced vendors
> to favour jaws above other screen readers. If enough people were
> prepared to come out and back us up we would have enough to at least make 
> those responcible for the blind to wake up and accept responcibility.
>
>
>
> I doubt that will ever happen as proving what we know to be true would
> be difficult. Not impossible. We do have what is called a Mergers and
> nonopoly commission but it too is being seen as a dog with no teeth.
> Although it blocked a merger a few days ago between the two major
> money markets, one in London and the other in @Germany from combining.
> They have some power but it is only token gesture.
>
>
>
> There is a proposed merger between Rupert Murdoch and Sky tv. He will
> be allowed to buy it despite criticism from other media cdompanies. He
> owns the majority of the world's media and his control is beyond
> anything that the world has seen before. There isn't much he doesn't
> own and his political power is immeanse. That is the exact same as
> jaws, the rnib, cnib and other organisations for the blind.
>
>
>
> If it could be possible for witnesses to come forward and confirm what
> we are saying. That would be at least a start. We could get up a
> petition expressing our opinion of the bullying from these so called
> institutions for the blind. bringing them to account. It may not do
> very much but at least it would rock the boat for a short time and
> always be part of the history of blind peoples lives in a corrupt and 
> overbearing system.
>
>
>
>
> Email 2:
>
>
>
>
> From: bj colt [mailto:bjc...@blueyonder.co.uk]
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:34 AM
> To: Sky Mundell
> Subject: Re: window eyes proposal
>
> Hi Sky,
>
> I listened to the podcast from scun. I am not only disgusted but
> really pissed off at VFO and with the presenters at the tech podcast.
> ~Why aren't they kicking up hell? Probably because they are jaws
> users. I got that impression just by their attitude. Zoom text and
> fusion was an AI squared and window-eyes conception. Not a VFO idea. I
> d

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Brenda via Talk]

of fact.
  
Live long and prosper, John





Hi Sky,
  
   
  
Yes, they said that the free copy of window-eyes with Office was a demo,

that it wasn’t a full version, it only lasted 6 months, it only lasted a
month. Those were regular lies told by vendors. The vendors favoured Jaws
because it brought them more profit. In that the Big blind organisations
reckomended jaws above other screen readers. When those in Education,
employment and other fields contacted the rnib etc with questions about
screen readers. What did they get? They got jaws and nothing else. No
reckomendations for window-eyes, nothing, only jaws was offered. It happened
iwth me. I lost a job because of it.
  
   
  
Think about it? Jaws screen reader was always reckomended, followed by

extensive training in jaws at a higher cost, scripts that were designed by
jaws script writers at a consierable cost. Sky that was the entire package
that was reckomended. The cost of everything, the dam high cost of
everything.







From: bj colt [mailto:bjc...@blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2016 10:51 AM
To: Sky Mundell
Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Proposal

Hi Sky,
  
Members of the list have stated that and more. No one was willing to fight

gw’s corner. Jaws had too much a grip in institutions, that’s one reason.
The actual proof was so well hidden it could not be proved conclusivly. Yet
it was widely known. As in the post about FS seuing institutions if they
didn’t approve of jaws over any other screen reader. In hindsight, had we
known that window-eyes would be put in jeapordy we would have done
something. None of us knew this may happen and that’s another reason we
didn’t do anything about the situation.
  
Sadly it looks as if it is all over for window-eyes. I noticed the post

saying the person contacted aisquared and confirmed that s m a’s were and
would be available in the future.
Yet he wasn’t willing to actualy prove that was the case. He didn’t post an
email or confirmation from asquared that this was the case. I would have
liked to have been given proof of this. My proof is in the email posted to
the group by asquared, where no mention of s m a’s are made.
  
There isn’t much time left for VFO to make an official statement about the

future of window-eyes. Then we will know for certain.
  
Robert would be livid. He would be doing anything to keep window-eyes alive.

The same as we will be doing. He will be proud of us when the time comes.
  
Live long and prosper, John





These are my thoughts as well.  These emails should get us springing into
action to keep Window-Eyes going.  Lets all keep it alive and get this truth
exposed and get Window-Eyes to the top in organisations for the blind.
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Kevin Huber via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:50 AM
To: Vaughan Dodd; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Hi Vaughan:

Mostly, I see your point and I would aggree, accept that, if VFO works
out a contract with Microsoft which will allow them to create a JAWS
For Office, presumably Window-eyes, and therefore Window-eyes for
office, will be dead so there will only be two free screen readerws.
Also, if WGW Micro created Window-eyes for Office to prevent people
from switching to NVDA, wouldn't that reasoning apply to creating a
JAWS For Office?  Not to say that they will because I highly doubt
that that will happen, but maybe it remains a possibility.
Kevin Huber and

On 3/29/17, Vaughan Dodd via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:

I think you'll find that VFO will not do this.

Microsoft funded this, under a contractual basis.
   The contract supporting the Window-Eyes with Office scheme will most
certainly come to an end.
The financial backers of VFO are funding the continued development of JFW,
and they will expect a return on their investment.

The Window-Eyes for Office deal was a response to the increasing user
support for NVDA.  The dramatic reduction in the addition of new features
and bug fixes for Window-Eyes is due in part to the deal, and people
choosing not to purchase Window-Eyes because they had access to  two free
screen readers.

There is no way that there can be three free screenreaders.


Think about it: once a JFW for Office deal is struck with Microsoft, there
will be clauses - such as - "cannot continue to develop interfaces for
products from software competitors" and so forth.

Regarding the Orbit thing: emulation of an 18 cell display means you lose
10% of the available realestate.  Because the objective of the Orbit

project

is sound - electronic braille to more people - there will be a JFW driver
soon.  That driver will probably need to be developed by the Orbit
consortium, rather than VFO. VFO won't throw in a free non VFO braille
display when you buy JFW.  It will develop deals for discounting its own
displays.  This is partly why 

RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Sky Mundell via Talk]

? They got jaws and nothing else. No
reckomendations for window-eyes, nothing, only jaws was offered. It happened
iwth me. I lost a job because of it. 
 
  
 
Think about it? Jaws screen reader was always reckomended, followed by
extensive training in jaws at a higher cost, scripts that were designed by
jaws script writers at a consierable cost. Sky that was the entire package
that was reckomended. The cost of everything, the dam high cost of
everything. 
   





From: bj colt [mailto:bjc...@blueyonder.co.uk] 
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2016 10:51 AM
To: Sky Mundell
Subject: Re: Window-Eyes Proposal

Hi Sky,
 
Members of the list have stated that and more. No one was willing to fight
gw’s corner. Jaws had too much a grip in institutions, that’s one reason.
The actual proof was so well hidden it could not be proved conclusivly. Yet
it was widely known. As in the post about FS seuing institutions if they
didn’t approve of jaws over any other screen reader. In hindsight, had we
known that window-eyes would be put in jeapordy we would have done
something. None of us knew this may happen and that’s another reason we
didn’t do anything about the situation.
 
Sadly it looks as if it is all over for window-eyes. I noticed the post
saying the person contacted aisquared and confirmed that s m a’s were and
would be available in the future.
Yet he wasn’t willing to actualy prove that was the case. He didn’t post an
email or confirmation from asquared that this was the case. I would have
liked to have been given proof of this. My proof is in the email posted to
the group by asquared, where no mention of s m a’s are made. 
 
There isn’t much time left for VFO to make an official statement about the
future of window-eyes. Then we will know for certain.
 
Robert would be livid. He would be doing anything to keep window-eyes alive.
The same as we will be doing. He will be proud of us when the time comes.
 
Live long and prosper, John




These are my thoughts as well.  These emails should get us springing into
action to keep Window-Eyes going.  Lets all keep it alive and get this truth
exposed and get Window-Eyes to the top in organisations for the blind.
-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Kevin Huber via Talk
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:50 AM
To: Vaughan Dodd; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

Hi Vaughan:

Mostly, I see your point and I would aggree, accept that, if VFO works
out a contract with Microsoft which will allow them to create a JAWS
For Office, presumably Window-eyes, and therefore Window-eyes for
office, will be dead so there will only be two free screen readerws.
Also, if WGW Micro created Window-eyes for Office to prevent people
from switching to NVDA, wouldn't that reasoning apply to creating a
JAWS For Office?  Not to say that they will because I highly doubt
that that will happen, but maybe it remains a possibility.
Kevin Huber and

On 3/29/17, Vaughan Dodd via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
> I think you'll find that VFO will not do this.
>
> Microsoft funded this, under a contractual basis.
>   The contract supporting the Window-Eyes with Office scheme will most
> certainly come to an end.
> The financial backers of VFO are funding the continued development of JFW,
> and they will expect a return on their investment.
>
> The Window-Eyes for Office deal was a response to the increasing user
> support for NVDA.  The dramatic reduction in the addition of new features
> and bug fixes for Window-Eyes is due in part to the deal, and people
> choosing not to purchase Window-Eyes because they had access to  two free
> screen readers.
>
> There is no way that there can be three free screenreaders.
>
>
> Think about it: once a JFW for Office deal is struck with Microsoft, there
> will be clauses - such as - "cannot continue to develop interfaces for
> products from software competitors" and so forth.
>
> Regarding the Orbit thing: emulation of an 18 cell display means you lose
> 10% of the available realestate.  Because the objective of the Orbit
project
> is sound - electronic braille to more people - there will be a JFW driver
> soon.  That driver will probably need to be developed by the Orbit
> consortium, rather than VFO. VFO won't throw in a free non VFO braille
> display when you buy JFW.  It will develop deals for discounting its own
> displays.  This is partly why Optelec are part of the group.
>
>
> Vaughan.
>
>
>
> Vaughan.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
> [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
> Behalf Of Joshua Kennedy via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, 30 March 2017 11:07 a.m.
> To: talk@lists.window-eyes.com
> Subject: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>
> and so 

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Kevin Huber via Talk]

Hi Vaughan:

Mostly, I see your point and I would aggree, accept that, if VFO works
out a contract with Microsoft which will allow them to create a JAWS
For Office, presumably Window-eyes, and therefore Window-eyes for
office, will be dead so there will only be two free screen readerws.
Also, if WGW Micro created Window-eyes for Office to prevent people
from switching to NVDA, wouldn't that reasoning apply to creating a
JAWS For Office?  Not to say that they will because I highly doubt
that that will happen, but maybe it remains a possibility.
Kevin Huber and

On 3/29/17, Vaughan Dodd via Talk  wrote:
> I think you'll find that VFO will not do this.
>
> Microsoft funded this, under a contractual basis.
>   The contract supporting the Window-Eyes with Office scheme will most
> certainly come to an end.
> The financial backers of VFO are funding the continued development of JFW,
> and they will expect a return on their investment.
>
> The Window-Eyes for Office deal was a response to the increasing user
> support for NVDA.  The dramatic reduction in the addition of new features
> and bug fixes for Window-Eyes is due in part to the deal, and people
> choosing not to purchase Window-Eyes because they had access to  two free
> screen readers.
>
> There is no way that there can be three free screenreaders.
>
>
> Think about it: once a JFW for Office deal is struck with Microsoft, there
> will be clauses - such as - "cannot continue to develop interfaces for
> products from software competitors" and so forth.
>
> Regarding the Orbit thing: emulation of an 18 cell display means you lose
> 10% of the available realestate.  Because the objective of the Orbit project
> is sound - electronic braille to more people - there will be a JFW driver
> soon.  That driver will probably need to be developed by the Orbit
> consortium, rather than VFO. VFO won't throw in a free non VFO braille
> display when you buy JFW.  It will develop deals for discounting its own
> displays.  This is partly why Optelec are part of the group.
>
>
> Vaughan.
>
>
>
> Vaughan.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk
> [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On
> Behalf Of Joshua Kennedy via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, 30 March 2017 11:07 a.m.
> To: talk@lists.window-eyes.com
> Subject: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>
> and so this is why the vfo group has to just fold window eyes into jaws or
> just give us a free jaws for office option. because for some people NVDA
> does not cut it, and we need something more powerful, yet that is low cost
> or free. a jaws for office would work fine especially if you need to do
> stuff in microsoft office. not to mention jaws works good with the orbit
> reader20 prototype set to refreshabraille18 emulation.
> window eyes does not work with orbit20 at all. come on vfo group let us use
> jaws for free if microsoft office is installed on our machines!
>
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author
> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/vaughan.dodd001%40msd.govt.nz.
> For subscription options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> List archives can be found at
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>
> ---
> This email and any attachments may contain information that is confidential
> and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any
> use, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this email and
> attachments is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please
> notify the author immediately and erase all copies of the email and
> attachments. The Ministry of Social Development accepts no responsibility
> for changes made to this message or attachments after transmission from the
> Ministry.
>
> ---
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author
> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/huber.kevin7%40gmail.com.
> For subscription options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> List archives can be found at
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>
___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

Re: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Reeva Webb via Talk]

Yet again, don't hold your breath for this to happen.


On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 5:35 PM Vaughan Dodd via Talk <
talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:

> I think you'll find that VFO will not do this.
>
> Microsoft funded this, under a contractual basis.
>   The contract supporting the Window-Eyes with Office scheme will most
> certainly come to an end.
> The financial backers of VFO are funding the continued development of JFW,
> and they will expect a return on their investment.
>
> The Window-Eyes for Office deal was a response to the increasing user
> support for NVDA.  The dramatic reduction in the addition of new features
> and bug fixes for Window-Eyes is due in part to the deal, and people
> choosing not to purchase Window-Eyes because they had access to  two free
> screen readers.
>
> There is no way that there can be three free screenreaders.
>
>
> Think about it: once a JFW for Office deal is struck with Microsoft, there
> will be clauses - such as - "cannot continue to develop interfaces for
> products from software competitors" and so forth.
>
> Regarding the Orbit thing: emulation of an 18 cell display means you lose
> 10% of the available realestate.  Because the objective of the Orbit
> project is sound - electronic braille to more people - there will be a JFW
> driver soon.  That driver will probably need to be developed by the Orbit
> consortium, rather than VFO. VFO won't throw in a free non VFO braille
> display when you buy JFW.  It will develop deals for discounting its own
> displays.  This is partly why Optelec are part of the group.
>
>
> Vaughan.
>
>
>
> Vaughan.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=
> msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Joshua Kennedy via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, 30 March 2017 11:07 a.m.
> To: talk@lists.window-eyes.com
> Subject: orbit20 display and future of window eyes
>
> and so this is why the vfo group has to just fold window eyes into jaws or
> just give us a free jaws for office option. because for some people NVDA
> does not cut it, and we need something more powerful, yet that is low cost
> or free. a jaws for office would work fine especially if you need to do
> stuff in microsoft office. not to mention jaws works good with the orbit
> reader20 prototype set to refreshabraille18 emulation.
> window eyes does not work with orbit20 at all. come on vfo group let us
> use jaws for free if microsoft office is installed on our machines!
>
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/vaughan.dodd001%40msd.govt.nz
> .
> For subscription options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> List archives can be found at
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>
> ---
> This email and any attachments may contain information that is
> confidential and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this
> email and attachments is prohibited. If you have received this email in
> error please notify the author immediately and erase all copies of the
> email and attachments. The Ministry of Social Development accepts no
> responsibility for changes made to this message or attachments after
> transmission from the Ministry.
>
> ---
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jadedangelpromises%40gmail.com
> .
> For subscription options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> List archives can be found at
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>
-- 
"The world has been against you from day one, tomorrow's never promised,
night has just begun, so sing with me we're all fucked" Walls Of Jericho
Reeva
___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

RE: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

[Vaughan Dodd via Talk]

I think you'll find that VFO will not do this.

Microsoft funded this, under a contractual basis.
  The contract supporting the Window-Eyes with Office scheme will most 
certainly come to an end.  
The financial backers of VFO are funding the continued development of JFW, and 
they will expect a return on their investment.

The Window-Eyes for Office deal was a response to the increasing user support 
for NVDA.  The dramatic reduction in the addition of new features and bug fixes 
for Window-Eyes is due in part to the deal, and people choosing not to purchase 
Window-Eyes because they had access to  two free screen readers.

There is no way that there can be three free screenreaders.


Think about it: once a JFW for Office deal is struck with Microsoft, there will 
be clauses - such as - "cannot continue to develop interfaces for  products 
from software competitors" and so forth.

Regarding the Orbit thing: emulation of an 18 cell display means you lose 10% 
of the available realestate.  Because the objective of the Orbit project is 
sound - electronic braille to more people - there will be a JFW driver soon.  
That driver will probably need to be developed by the Orbit consortium, rather 
than VFO. VFO won't throw in a free non VFO braille display when you buy JFW.  
It will develop deals for discounting its own displays.  This is partly why 
Optelec are part of the group.


Vaughan.



Vaughan.



-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+vaughan.dodd001=msd.govt...@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Joshua Kennedy via Talk
Sent: Thursday, 30 March 2017 11:07 a.m.
To: talk@lists.window-eyes.com
Subject: orbit20 display and future of window eyes

and so this is why the vfo group has to just fold window eyes into jaws or just 
give us a free jaws for office option. because for some people NVDA does not 
cut it, and we need something more powerful, yet that is low cost or free. a 
jaws for office would work fine especially if you need to do stuff in microsoft 
office. not to mention jaws works good with the orbit reader20 prototype set to 
refreshabraille18 emulation. 
window eyes does not work with orbit20 at all. come on vfo group let us use 
jaws for free if microsoft office is installed on our machines!

___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/vaughan.dodd001%40msd.govt.nz.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

---
This email and any attachments may contain information that is confidential and 
subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, 
dissemination, distribution or duplication of this email and attachments is 
prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the author 
immediately and erase all copies of the email and attachments. The Ministry of 
Social Development accepts no responsibility for changes made to this message 
or attachments after transmission from the Ministry.

---
___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com.
For subscription options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com