Re: [OSM-talk] Licence compatibility (was Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag)

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Interesting question, especially considering that all other external data
sources have much more restrictive license - e.g. mapilary id or any
url/website tag (which is technically also an ID into another data
source)...
Also, what about the location where data is combined?  E.g. if wikidata is
in public domain, and US courts agree with that statement, anyone in the US
can combine it with OSM data?  What about UK?   In any case, i suspect
nothing we decide has any merit until the actual court case in any of the
locations.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 3:58 AM, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 02/10/2017 02:56, Paul Norman wrote:
>
>> On 10/1/2017 5:39 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>>
>>> Lastly, if the coordinates are different, you may not copy it from OSM
>>> to Wikidata because of the difference in the license.
>>>
>>
>> Just for clarity and anyone reading the archives later, copying from
>> Wikidata to OSM is also a problem because Wikidata permits coordinate
>> sources like Wikipedia or Google Earth.
>>
>> _
>>
> Would a data consumer be able to legally combine OSM and
> wikipedia/wikidata data in any meaningful way, given this fundamental
> licence incompatibility?  What requirements would they have to fulfil with
> their combined data?  The OSM side of things is discussed in some detail at
> http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Licence_and_Legal_FAQ , but
> what about requirements due to other data in there?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[J.P. Kirby]

On 2017-10-03, at 12:33 AM, Matthew Darwin  wrote:

> Hi J.P.
> 
> This sounds reasonable.  Do we have a map that shows which areas of the 
> province are French area vs English area.  For us non-NBers.   Or I suppose 
> one could guess by looking at the existing tags there.  (I would assume 
> Fredericton is English area?)  If we have a list then could update the NB 
> wiki page. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/New_Brunswick

The general rule is that southern and western NB is English, northern and 
eastern is French; but there are exceptions, and a couple places like Bathurst 
and Campbellton are 50/50. 

But yes, you can almost always tell from the tags and the street names 
themselves (e.g. "St. Mary's" vs "Sainte-Marie").

JPK


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Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[Matthew Darwin]

Hi J.P.

This sounds reasonable.  Do we have a map that shows which areas of 
the province are French area vs English area.  For us non-NBers.   Or 
I suppose one could guess by looking at the existing tags there.  (I 
would assume Fredericton is English area?)  If we have a list then 
could update the NB wiki page. 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/New_Brunswick



On 2017-10-02 11:03 PM, J.P. Kirby wrote:


I live in NB but haven't been involved in tagging these particular signs. While mapping street 
names, I tend to use "name=x Street" and "name:fr=Rue x" in English-speaking 
areas of the province, with the opposite in French areas. I see no reason we can't do something 
similar with destination signs, even if the double-colon may look unwieldy.

After all it is, officially, "Regent Street" in English and "Rue Regent" in French, not 
"Rue Regent Street" in both.

JPK
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Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[J.P. Kirby]

On 2017-10-02, at 12:22 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> Are there any NB mappers here? If not we can extract the most active mappers 
> from the data and ask directly. (That is how we usually go about this if we 
> have a local question where nobody from the area seems to be on the national 
> mailing list.)
> 
> Martijn van Exel
> skype: mvexel

I live in NB but haven't been involved in tagging these particular signs. While 
mapping street names, I tend to use "name=x Street" and "name:fr=Rue x" in 
English-speaking areas of the province, with the opposite in French areas. I 
see no reason we can't do something similar with destination signs, even if the 
double-colon may look unwieldy. 

After all it is, officially, "Regent Street" in English and "Rue Regent" in 
French, not "Rue Regent Street" in both.

JPK
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[Talk-ca] Using City of Vancouver Open Licensed Data?

[keith]

Hello Canada list,

I am interested in using some of the data provided by the City of Vancouver
under the "Open Government Licence – Vancouver" (
http://vancouver.ca/your-government/open-data-catalogue.aspx#tab19099).
According to the OSM wiki this is compatible with OSM's licence (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Vancouver), is this
accurate?

I want to do small imports of building traces, manually checking the
imagery against the Imagery. I guess this should still be considered to
finish off the section of Vancouver that does not have the buildings
traced. The quality of the data from the City of Vancouver is OK, not
amazing, in fact slightly lower than the average for Vancouver building
traces, but not outside the range. It would be trivial to improve the
traces to be better than average, and I would do so for what I import. It's
for a relatively small area, about 2km by 4.5km, and I would be doing lots
of manual fixes and inspection. So many that I'm not really sure that it's
exactly an import.

If the building traces goes smoothly, and has general acceptance, I might
use other data from the listed datasets.

What do the folks on this list say? Am I good to go ahead with this?

Thanks for any input.

Keith
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[Talk-ca] Fwd: Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[Martijn van Exel]

Other bounced message..Sorry.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Martijn van Exel 
Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs
To: john whelan 
Cc: Matthew Darwin , Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <
talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>


Are there any NB mappers here? If not we can extract the most active
mappers from the data and ask directly. (That is how we usually go about
this if we have a local question where nobody from the area seems to be on
the national mailing list.)

Martijn van Exel
skype: mvexel

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 9:18 AM, john whelan  wrote:

> Thank you for the clarification.  Could some one do a write up in the wiki
> on destination:street please.
>
> Note to Martin looks like you need a New Brunswick mapper to say what the
> local rules are.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 2 October 2017 at 11:06, Matthew Darwin  wrote:
>
>> No,
>>
>> This is about the "desination" sign that you find on major highways,
>> usually they are green.  "Exit 114 chemin Anderson Road" or whatever.
>>
>> And this specific issue is about road signs in New Brunswick, and New
>> Brunswick is the only official bilingual province in Canada.
>>
>> Matthew Darwinmatthew@mdarwin.cahttp://www.mdarwin.ca
>>
>> On 2017-10-02 11:01 AM, john whelan wrote:
>>
>> > destination:street
>>
>> I'm confused by this.  According to taginfo there are only 11,000 entries
>> and there is no wiki page.
>>
>> We have highway=residential, name=xyz street, name:fr=rue xyz
>>
>> I assume name here is what you mean.
>>
>> Ottawa is not officially bilingual, it is officially English but services
>> are offered in French.
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names
>>
>> also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:Ontario:Ottawa and look
>> for bilingual street names.
>>
>> Different parts of Canada have different rules according to who is the
>> authority for naming streets or setting the rules for naming streets.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 October 2017 at 10:10, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for all the responses. It seems that using destination:street
>>> is expected to have the name in the local official language. If the sign is
>>> bilingual, I propose then to add the other name as destination:street:en or
>>> destination:street:fr, respectively. This is not yet a documented tag, but
>>> I see no other sensible way to do it and it seems to me that it would be a
>>> logical extension, considering we already have name:[language ISO code]
>>> tags in wide use.
>>>
>>> Does this sound agreeable?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Martijn
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Pierre Béland 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Les différentes provinces ou états ont souvent un organisme responsable
 de faire l'inventaire des noms officiels. Au Québec,  c'est la Commission
 de toponymie qui est responsable.
 http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.ca/ct/accueil.aspx

 Sur leur site, on retrouve des listes de noms et les règles qui
 s'appliquent pour les noms au Québec.
 Pour les règles, voir http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.c
 a/ct/normes-procedures/regles-ecriture/

 Les noms affichés sur Geobase.ca correspondent souvent à ces règles
 puisque les données de Ressources naturelles Canada sont fournies par les
 provinces. Par contre, il peut y avoir un certain retard lors de
 modifications de noms. Dans la section Fournisseurs d'image de JOSM, on
 retrouve un lien vers la couche RRN de Geobase. Les données sont aussi
 disponibles par province en shapefile.
 http://ouvert.canada.ca/data/fr/dataset/3d282116-e556-400c-9
 306-ca1a3cada77f

 cordialement

 Pierre


 --
 *De :* john whelan 
 *À :* Martijn van Exel 
 *Cc :* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
 *Envoyé le :* vendredi 29 Septembre 2017 16h52
 *Objet :* Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

 Whilst I think about it Ottawa is an amalgam of smaller municipalities
 so is slowly changing street names to avoid duplicates.  I seem to recall
 an employee in the street naming bit is adjusting street names in OSM.  So
 please do not change a street name to match a photo that might have been
 taken some time ago.

 In Quebec I understand province wide the standard for names on maps is
 "Rue xyz" in Ontario it is left to the municipality whether to capitalise
 the first letter or not so you need to know the rules for each 
 municipality.

 Have fun

 Cheerio John

 On 29 Sep 2017 4:20 pm, "john whelan"  wrote:

 Ottawa is one of the few places that has bilingual street names.

 On the same street I've seen just the 

Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[Martijn van Exel]

Sorry to cause confusion. I am not talking about street names, just the
street part of signposts on limited access highways, as depicted in
https://github.com/TelenavMapping/mapping-projects/issues/27. There is
documentation + examples on this in the Exit Info wiki page (
wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Exit_Info) and after discussing with the US
community has been put into wider use there.

The destination:street:[ISO language code] would be a new extension, and
while I am not super fond of deeper colon separated tag hierarchies, this
is the way it seems to make the most sense when compared with the name:[ISO
language code] tag.

Martijn

Martijn van Exel
skype: mvexel

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Matthew Darwin  wrote:

> No,
>
> This is about the "desination" sign that you find on major highways,
> usually they are green.  "Exit 114 chemin Anderson Road" or whatever.
>
> And this specific issue is about road signs in New Brunswick, and New
> Brunswick is the only official bilingual province in Canada.
>
> Matthew Darwinmatthew@mdarwin.cahttp://www.mdarwin.ca
>
> On 2017-10-02 11:01 AM, john whelan wrote:
>
> > destination:street
>
> I'm confused by this.  According to taginfo there are only 11,000 entries
> and there is no wiki page.
>
> We have highway=residential, name=xyz street, name:fr=rue xyz
>
> I assume name here is what you mean.
>
> Ottawa is not officially bilingual, it is officially English but services
> are offered in French.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names
>
> also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:Ontario:Ottawa and look
> for bilingual street names.
>
> Different parts of Canada have different rules according to who is the
> authority for naming streets or setting the rules for naming streets.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
>
> On 2 October 2017 at 10:10, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>
>> Thank you for all the responses. It seems that using destination:street
>> is expected to have the name in the local official language. If the sign is
>> bilingual, I propose then to add the other name as destination:street:en or
>> destination:street:fr, respectively. This is not yet a documented tag, but
>> I see no other sensible way to do it and it seems to me that it would be a
>> logical extension, considering we already have name:[language ISO code]
>> tags in wide use.
>>
>> Does this sound agreeable?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Martijn
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Pierre Béland  wrote:
>>
>>> Les différentes provinces ou états ont souvent un organisme responsable
>>> de faire l'inventaire des noms officiels. Au Québec,  c'est la Commission
>>> de toponymie qui est responsable.
>>> http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.ca/ct/accueil.aspx
>>>
>>> Sur leur site, on retrouve des listes de noms et les règles qui
>>> s'appliquent pour les noms au Québec.
>>> Pour les règles, voir http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.c
>>> a/ct/normes-procedures/regles-ecriture/
>>>
>>> Les noms affichés sur Geobase.ca correspondent souvent à ces règles
>>> puisque les données de Ressources naturelles Canada sont fournies par les
>>> provinces. Par contre, il peut y avoir un certain retard lors de
>>> modifications de noms. Dans la section Fournisseurs d'image de JOSM, on
>>> retrouve un lien vers la couche RRN de Geobase. Les données sont aussi
>>> disponibles par province en shapefile.
>>> http://ouvert.canada.ca/data/fr/dataset/3d282116-e556-400c-9
>>> 306-ca1a3cada77f
>>>
>>> cordialement
>>>
>>> Pierre
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *De :* john whelan 
>>> *À :* Martijn van Exel 
>>> *Cc :* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
>>> *Envoyé le :* vendredi 29 Septembre 2017 16h52
>>> *Objet :* Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs
>>>
>>> Whilst I think about it Ottawa is an amalgam of smaller municipalities
>>> so is slowly changing street names to avoid duplicates.  I seem to recall
>>> an employee in the street naming bit is adjusting street names in OSM.  So
>>> please do not change a street name to match a photo that might have been
>>> taken some time ago.
>>>
>>> In Quebec I understand province wide the standard for names on maps is
>>> "Rue xyz" in Ontario it is left to the municipality whether to capitalise
>>> the first letter or not so you need to know the rules for each municipality.
>>>
>>> Have fun
>>>
>>> Cheerio John
>>>
>>> On 29 Sep 2017 4:20 pm, "john whelan"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Ottawa is one of the few places that has bilingual street names.
>>>
>>> On the same street I've seen just the name, name street and rue name
>>> street signs.
>>>
>>> In Ottawa the majority are Slater street in name then rue Slater in
>>> name:french.
>>>
>>> Anything else means it is difficult to search for the name
>>> electronically.  "rue Slater Street"  is not easy to enter.
>>>
>>> Note for Ottawa it is rue Slater not Rue Slater.  Other places such as
>>> 

Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[Martijn van Exel]

Are there any NB mappers here? If not we can extract the most active
mappers from the data and ask directly. (That is how we usually go about
this if we have a local question where nobody from the area seems to be on
the national mailing list.)

Martijn van Exel
skype: mvexel

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 9:18 AM, john whelan  wrote:

> Thank you for the clarification.  Could some one do a write up in the wiki
> on destination:street please.
>
> Note to Martin looks like you need a New Brunswick mapper to say what the
> local rules are.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 2 October 2017 at 11:06, Matthew Darwin  wrote:
>
>> No,
>>
>> This is about the "desination" sign that you find on major highways,
>> usually they are green.  "Exit 114 chemin Anderson Road" or whatever.
>>
>> And this specific issue is about road signs in New Brunswick, and New
>> Brunswick is the only official bilingual province in Canada.
>>
>> Matthew Darwinmatthew@mdarwin.cahttp://www.mdarwin.ca
>>
>> On 2017-10-02 11:01 AM, john whelan wrote:
>>
>> > destination:street
>>
>> I'm confused by this.  According to taginfo there are only 11,000 entries
>> and there is no wiki page.
>>
>> We have highway=residential, name=xyz street, name:fr=rue xyz
>>
>> I assume name here is what you mean.
>>
>> Ottawa is not officially bilingual, it is officially English but services
>> are offered in French.
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names
>>
>> also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:Ontario:Ottawa and look
>> for bilingual street names.
>>
>> Different parts of Canada have different rules according to who is the
>> authority for naming streets or setting the rules for naming streets.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 October 2017 at 10:10, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for all the responses. It seems that using destination:street
>>> is expected to have the name in the local official language. If the sign is
>>> bilingual, I propose then to add the other name as destination:street:en or
>>> destination:street:fr, respectively. This is not yet a documented tag, but
>>> I see no other sensible way to do it and it seems to me that it would be a
>>> logical extension, considering we already have name:[language ISO code]
>>> tags in wide use.
>>>
>>> Does this sound agreeable?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Martijn
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Pierre Béland 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Les différentes provinces ou états ont souvent un organisme responsable
 de faire l'inventaire des noms officiels. Au Québec,  c'est la Commission
 de toponymie qui est responsable.
 http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.ca/ct/accueil.aspx

 Sur leur site, on retrouve des listes de noms et les règles qui
 s'appliquent pour les noms au Québec.
 Pour les règles, voir http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.c
 a/ct/normes-procedures/regles-ecriture/

 Les noms affichés sur Geobase.ca correspondent souvent à ces règles
 puisque les données de Ressources naturelles Canada sont fournies par les
 provinces. Par contre, il peut y avoir un certain retard lors de
 modifications de noms. Dans la section Fournisseurs d'image de JOSM, on
 retrouve un lien vers la couche RRN de Geobase. Les données sont aussi
 disponibles par province en shapefile.
 http://ouvert.canada.ca/data/fr/dataset/3d282116-e556-400c-9
 306-ca1a3cada77f

 cordialement

 Pierre


 --
 *De :* john whelan 
 *À :* Martijn van Exel 
 *Cc :* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
 *Envoyé le :* vendredi 29 Septembre 2017 16h52
 *Objet :* Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

 Whilst I think about it Ottawa is an amalgam of smaller municipalities
 so is slowly changing street names to avoid duplicates.  I seem to recall
 an employee in the street naming bit is adjusting street names in OSM.  So
 please do not change a street name to match a photo that might have been
 taken some time ago.

 In Quebec I understand province wide the standard for names on maps is
 "Rue xyz" in Ontario it is left to the municipality whether to capitalise
 the first letter or not so you need to know the rules for each 
 municipality.

 Have fun

 Cheerio John

 On 29 Sep 2017 4:20 pm, "john whelan"  wrote:

 Ottawa is one of the few places that has bilingual street names.

 On the same street I've seen just the name, name street and rue name
 street signs.

 In Ottawa the majority are Slater street in name then rue Slater in
 name:french.

 Anything else means it is difficult to search for the name
 electronically.  "rue Slater Street"  is not easy to enter.

 Note for Ottawa it is rue Slater not Rue Slater.  

Re: [Talk-ca] OSM Canada & State of the Map US: Oct 20-22

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi Matthew -- I am not from Canada but as the secretary of the OSM
Foundation board I am working with local OSM organizations to become
official local chapters. If you want, we can meet up in Boulder with other
folks from Canada and see if there's enough interest and support from the
Canadian community at large to move in that direction.
Martijn


Martijn van Exel
skype: mvexel

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Matthew Darwin  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Are any Canadian folks going to State of the Map US October 20-22
> https://2017.stateofthemap.us/
>
> During the conference, I would like to have a discussion about turning the
> informal https://www.osmcanada.ca/ into a not-for-profit Canadian
> corporation.  I'm looking for other folks who think this might be a good
> idea (or maybe have a contrary opinion) and want to talk about it.
>
> Of course comments are accepted here or directly to me (matt...@mdarwin.ca
> ).
>
> Thanks!
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada building project

[Open-Ouvert]

Good day John,

Thank you for your email, and to follow-up with you on our DYI Tool Kit – this 
is currently with our technical department and will be available online very 
soon. We will be sharing this new page via Twitter, our website and also in a 
mailer to let everyone know when this will be live and available.

I hope this helps,

Have a nice day,
Sabrina
Open Government Team

From: john whelan [mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com]
Sent: September 28, 2017 6:59 AM
To: Stewart C. Russell
Cc: talk-ca; Open-Ouvert; Aitken, Kent
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Stats Canada building project

Looks like we need to talk nicely to Open-Ouvert.

Thanks John

On 27 September 2017 at 21:54, Stewart C. Russell 
> wrote:
On 2017-09-27 07:00 PM, john whelan wrote:
> No we need to persuade the municipalities to move to the new standard
> license in the TB kit

Is this initiative published anywhere, John? I virtually attended the
conference it was supposed to be announced at, and all there is is
Jean-Noé's announcement:
http://open.canada.ca/en/blog/coming-soon-do-it-yourself-open-data-toolkit

I also don't remember any consultation on what it was going to look like.

 Stewart

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[OSM-ja] State of the Map Japan 2018、開催します！

[Satoshi IIDA]

いいだ＠OSMFJ帽子です。

来年のことを言えば鬼が笑う、とは申しますが。
State of the Map Japan 2018、開催します！

国際カンファレンスであったState of the Map 2017 Aizuwakamatsuとは異なり、
2018年はまた、ローカルカンファレンスとして日本地域を中心とした構成を予定しています。

日時や場所などは、これから運営チームで検討を行います。
アイデアやご意見、やりたいことのあるかた、
会場の紹介をいただけるかた、ぜひぜひご連絡ください！


連絡先メールアドレス: i...@osmf.jp

あなたの来年の姿、楽しみにしています。
Happy Mapping!


-- 
Satoshi IIDA
mail: nyamp...@gmail.com
twitter: @nyampire
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Re: [OSM-talk] A thought on bot edits

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 02.10.2017 18:50, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> Of course i am certainly not representative for the typical mappers.  I 
> would suspect there are probably mappers that would be attracted and 
> motivated by an OSM project where bots routinely 'fix' data 
> inconsistencies like typos in tags, different spellings of common names 
> or automatically orthogonalize building geometries.  But there are 
> others who don't like this.  One motivation behind my suggestion was 
> that this would allow mappers to embrace bot edits but also allows them 
> to reject this and decide they only want to interact with other craft 
> mappers and not with bots.

Did your proposal also extend to geoemtries? You said something about
bot:* tags, but if a bot were to orthogonalize an existing building,
would it then have to create a copy of that tagged "bot:building=yes"?
And how could that be differentiated from a building that originally had
building=YES and the bot only lowercased the tag value?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[Philippe Verdy]

Toutefois il n'est visiblement pas tout seul:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/40438821 (par Eugenip22
)


Le 3 octobre 2017 à 02:06, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :

> Tous ces noms basques ont pour la plupart été changés en masse par
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/izpura/history
>
> (tous les changesets avec le commentiare "euskaraz")
>
> C'est un utilisateur francophone d'après la locale de son editeur. Aui a
> envoyés des milliers de changesets avec un changement de nom.
>
> Cela concerne toutes les communes, tous les villages, toutes les rivières,
> une bonne partie des rues, tous les sommets, bon nombre de services publics.
> Le tout très rapidement. Il a certainement du utiliser un bot non
> autorisé...
>
> Il fait aussi des modifs en Espagne (et pas qu'au Pays Basque espagnol ou
> en Navarre mais bien au delà...)
>
>
> Le 2 octobre 2017 à 23:55, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :
>
>> on a déjà des rendus en langues régionales françaises (breton, basque,
>> catalan, occitan... peut-être aussi alémanique pour les alsaciens ou dans
>> un créole guadeloupéen ou réunionais mais je n'ai pas vu beaucoup de
>> demande).
>> Les basques et catalans sont les premier demandeurs je pense.
>>
>>
>> Le 2 octobre 2017 à 23:48, Sébastien Dinot  a
>> écrit :
>>
>>> Bonsoir,
>>>
>>> orhygine a écrit :
>>> > Concernant les champs name et les langues régionales, y'a-t-il un
>>> > consensus sur la manière de cartographier suite à cette discussion ?
>>> > Je viens de faire un petit tour sur osmose et cela clignote pas mal :
>>> > http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/?lat=43.29320031385285
>>> =-1.2215423583984377=10
>>>
>>> Déjà que je ne goutais guère le « Toulouse » remplacé par
>>> « Tolosa / Toulouse », là, les pratiques de ce(s) contributeur(s)
>>> m'agacent au plus haut point. Ils transforment un projet communautaire
>>> visant l'objectivité en un outil identitaire qu'ils imposent au reste du
>>> monde, à commencer par les autres contributeurs qui ont construit cette
>>> base qu'ils saccagent.
>>>
>>> Pour moi, il ne faut pas qu'un contributeur affronte seul ces
>>> régionalistes zélés et se lance dans une guerre d'édition qui en ferait
>>> une cible individuelle. Si ces saboteurs ont déjà été alertés et s'ils
>>> continuent leurs méfaits, il faut passer par le DWG et demander leur
>>> blocage temporaire.
>>>
>>> J'écris « saboteurs » car, quand on supprime les toponymes officiels
>>> pour les remplacer par leur équivalent régional, on sabote bel et bien
>>> la base de données. On dégrade sa pertinence puisque les utilisateurs et
>>> les outils seront incapables de retrouver les lieux désignés par leur
>>> toponyme officiel.
>>>
>>> Et comme quelqu'un l'a déjà indiqué, s'ils ne sont pas contents du rendu
>>> officiel, qu'ils montent un serveur local avec un rendu toponymique
>>> basque.
>>>
>>> Sébastien
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sébastien Dinot, sebastien.di...@free.fr
>>> http://sebastien.dinot.free.fr/
>>> Ne goûtez pas au logiciel libre, vous ne pourriez plus vous en passer !
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[Philippe Verdy]

Tous ces noms basques ont pour la plupart été changés en masse par
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/izpura/history

(tous les changesets avec le commentiare "euskaraz")

C'est un utilisateur francophone d'après la locale de son editeur. Aui a
envoyés des milliers de changesets avec un changement de nom.

Cela concerne toutes les communes, tous les villages, toutes les rivières,
une bonne partie des rues, tous les sommets, bon nombre de services publics.
Le tout très rapidement. Il a certainement du utiliser un bot non
autorisé...

Il fait aussi des modifs en Espagne (et pas qu'au Pays Basque espagnol ou
en Navarre mais bien au delà...)


Le 2 octobre 2017 à 23:55, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :

> on a déjà des rendus en langues régionales françaises (breton, basque,
> catalan, occitan... peut-être aussi alémanique pour les alsaciens ou dans
> un créole guadeloupéen ou réunionais mais je n'ai pas vu beaucoup de
> demande).
> Les basques et catalans sont les premier demandeurs je pense.
>
>
> Le 2 octobre 2017 à 23:48, Sébastien Dinot  a
> écrit :
>
>> Bonsoir,
>>
>> orhygine a écrit :
>> > Concernant les champs name et les langues régionales, y'a-t-il un
>> > consensus sur la manière de cartographier suite à cette discussion ?
>> > Je viens de faire un petit tour sur osmose et cela clignote pas mal :
>> > http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/?lat=43.29320031385285
>> =-1.2215423583984377=10
>>
>> Déjà que je ne goutais guère le « Toulouse » remplacé par
>> « Tolosa / Toulouse », là, les pratiques de ce(s) contributeur(s)
>> m'agacent au plus haut point. Ils transforment un projet communautaire
>> visant l'objectivité en un outil identitaire qu'ils imposent au reste du
>> monde, à commencer par les autres contributeurs qui ont construit cette
>> base qu'ils saccagent.
>>
>> Pour moi, il ne faut pas qu'un contributeur affronte seul ces
>> régionalistes zélés et se lance dans une guerre d'édition qui en ferait
>> une cible individuelle. Si ces saboteurs ont déjà été alertés et s'ils
>> continuent leurs méfaits, il faut passer par le DWG et demander leur
>> blocage temporaire.
>>
>> J'écris « saboteurs » car, quand on supprime les toponymes officiels
>> pour les remplacer par leur équivalent régional, on sabote bel et bien
>> la base de données. On dégrade sa pertinence puisque les utilisateurs et
>> les outils seront incapables de retrouver les lieux désignés par leur
>> toponyme officiel.
>>
>> Et comme quelqu'un l'a déjà indiqué, s'ils ne sont pas contents du rendu
>> officiel, qu'ils montent un serveur local avec un rendu toponymique
>> basque.
>>
>> Sébastien
>>
>> --
>> Sébastien Dinot, sebastien.di...@free.fr
>> http://sebastien.dinot.free.fr/
>> Ne goûtez pas au logiciel libre, vous ne pourriez plus vous en passer !
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 2. Oct 2017, at 20:36, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> 
> and Andy Mabbett from England editing supermarkets in
> Germany.


indeed it’s not helping the quality if editors are not familiar with the 
language specifics for the area of the things they edit (this is true for all 
UGC, be it osm, wikidata, etc). Aldi Sud does not make sense, it’s either Süd 
or, if you really have to (e.g. domain names), Sued. 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q41171672

This kind of fiddling leads to objects like this: 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q125054
inception 1913
founded by Karl and Theo Albrecht, born 1920 and 1922. 
Founded 7/9 years before their birth?

It is also not true that aldi nord and süd result or follow from the splitting 
of Aldi, they result from the split of Albrecht KG. Not even the founding year 
1960 for the parts is correct, it’s 1961 (according to wp and company website)

It also still claims Aldi is a GmbH & Co. KG and even has 1 reference for this 
(german wikipedia), while the German wikipedia actually has a long paragraph 
trying to explain the structure and saying there are 66 different regional GmbH 
& Co. KG, plus other companies like the ALDI Einkauf GmbH & Co. oHG or the ALDI 
SÜD Dienstleistungs-GmbH & Co. oHG, i.e. it’s a group of companies, a concern.
Here’s a list of parts of Aldi Süd:
https://unternehmen.aldi-sued.de/de/impressum/

It can all be fixed of course, but I’m curious how all these errors have gotten 
there. There’s still more wrong than correct in this object.

cheers,
Martin 


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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Next meeting

[Rob Nickerson]

Wednesday seems best (just) as it's me, maybe Todd and maybe Andy. Thursday
is just Eike.

We can switch back to Thursday next month.

@Andy: Let me know re the pub.
@Todd: Will you be able to make it this Wednesday?

*Rob*

On 28 September 2017 at 22:22, Andy Robinson  wrote:

> Wed it is then. Not 100% sure I can make it currently.
>
>
>
> We did use the Shakespeare before but I think we found it a bit small and
> noisy (sky tv). Wherever we go its best that there isn’t a big screen in
> eye/ear shot.
>
> I have a friend that used the Wellington a lot. Will ask his view.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Rob Nickerson [mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 27 September 2017 22:57
> *To:* Andy Robinson
> *Cc:* Brian Prangle; talk-gb-westmidlands
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Next meeting
>
>
>
> With two people saying no to Thursday (3 if you include me) this month, we
> might as well go for Wednesday 4th October.
>
> For pubs those in Birmingham may know better but here are some ideas. I
> suggest the first on the list unless anyone knows a reason to rule it out.
>
> - The gunmakers arms. Just round the corner from the bull. (seems to have
> it's own micro brewery)
>
> - Queen's Arms, Newhall St
>
> - The Shakespeare, Summer Row
>
> - The Wellington (no event on Wednesday / live folk music on Thursday). 
> Bennetts
> Hill
>
> - The Lost and Found. Bennetts Hill
>
> See you soon,
>
>
>
>
> *Rob*
>
>
>
> On 27 September 2017 at 10:16, Andy Robinson  wrote:
>
> I’m easy, though in Cheshire more and more.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> *From:* Brian Prangle [mailto:bpran...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 27 September 2017 08:15
> *To:* Rob Nickerson
> *Cc:* talk-gb-westmidlands
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Next meeting
>
>
>
> Hi Rob
>
> No progress on alternative venue and I definitely can't make Thurs 5th
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
>
>
> On 26 September 2017 at 23:59, Rob Nickerson 
> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Are we back in Birmingham for Octobers meeting? I seem to recall some
> discussion about trying a new venue. Where did we get to on that one?
>
> Also I've screwed up my calendar so Thursday 5th October isn't looking
> that great for me :-( I might have to skip it but throwing the idea of a
> one off Wednesday meeting out there if that works for others. If not the go
> ahead without me on Thursday.
>
> *Rob*
>
>
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[Philippe Verdy]

on a déjà des rendus en langues régionales françaises (breton, basque,
catalan, occitan... peut-être aussi alémanique pour les alsaciens ou dans
un créole guadeloupéen ou réunionais mais je n'ai pas vu beaucoup de
demande).
Les basques et catalans sont les premier demandeurs je pense.


Le 2 octobre 2017 à 23:48, Sébastien Dinot  a
écrit :

> Bonsoir,
>
> orhygine a écrit :
> > Concernant les champs name et les langues régionales, y'a-t-il un
> > consensus sur la manière de cartographier suite à cette discussion ?
> > Je viens de faire un petit tour sur osmose et cela clignote pas mal :
> > http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/?lat=43.29320031385285=-1.
> 2215423583984377=10
>
> Déjà que je ne goutais guère le « Toulouse » remplacé par
> « Tolosa / Toulouse », là, les pratiques de ce(s) contributeur(s)
> m'agacent au plus haut point. Ils transforment un projet communautaire
> visant l'objectivité en un outil identitaire qu'ils imposent au reste du
> monde, à commencer par les autres contributeurs qui ont construit cette
> base qu'ils saccagent.
>
> Pour moi, il ne faut pas qu'un contributeur affronte seul ces
> régionalistes zélés et se lance dans une guerre d'édition qui en ferait
> une cible individuelle. Si ces saboteurs ont déjà été alertés et s'ils
> continuent leurs méfaits, il faut passer par le DWG et demander leur
> blocage temporaire.
>
> J'écris « saboteurs » car, quand on supprime les toponymes officiels
> pour les remplacer par leur équivalent régional, on sabote bel et bien
> la base de données. On dégrade sa pertinence puisque les utilisateurs et
> les outils seront incapables de retrouver les lieux désignés par leur
> toponyme officiel.
>
> Et comme quelqu'un l'a déjà indiqué, s'ils ne sont pas contents du rendu
> officiel, qu'ils montent un serveur local avec un rendu toponymique
> basque.
>
> Sébastien
>
> --
> Sébastien Dinot, sebastien.di...@free.fr
> http://sebastien.dinot.free.fr/
> Ne goûtez pas au logiciel libre, vous ne pourriez plus vous en passer !
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[Sébastien Dinot]

Bonsoir,

orhygine a écrit :
> Concernant les champs name et les langues régionales, y'a-t-il un
> consensus sur la manière de cartographier suite à cette discussion ?
> Je viens de faire un petit tour sur osmose et cela clignote pas mal :
> http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/?lat=43.29320031385285=-1.2215423583984377=10

Déjà que je ne goutais guère le « Toulouse » remplacé par
« Tolosa / Toulouse », là, les pratiques de ce(s) contributeur(s)
m'agacent au plus haut point. Ils transforment un projet communautaire
visant l'objectivité en un outil identitaire qu'ils imposent au reste du
monde, à commencer par les autres contributeurs qui ont construit cette
base qu'ils saccagent.

Pour moi, il ne faut pas qu'un contributeur affronte seul ces
régionalistes zélés et se lance dans une guerre d'édition qui en ferait
une cible individuelle. Si ces saboteurs ont déjà été alertés et s'ils
continuent leurs méfaits, il faut passer par le DWG et demander leur
blocage temporaire.

J'écris « saboteurs » car, quand on supprime les toponymes officiels
pour les remplacer par leur équivalent régional, on sabote bel et bien
la base de données. On dégrade sa pertinence puisque les utilisateurs et
les outils seront incapables de retrouver les lieux désignés par leur
toponyme officiel.

Et comme quelqu'un l'a déjà indiqué, s'ils ne sont pas contents du rendu
officiel, qu'ils montent un serveur local avec un rendu toponymique
basque.

Sébastien

-- 
Sébastien Dinot, sebastien.di...@free.fr
http://sebastien.dinot.free.fr/
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[Philippe Verdy]

Le 2 octobre 2017 à 22:37, Christian Rogel  a écrit :

> Le 2017 Here 2 à 19:14, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :
>
> Le renommage forcé en Basque est allé assez loin pour éliminer les
> toponymes français du cadastre et les remplacer par les noms basques.
> Ce inclut non seulement es communes mais les villages et de nombrux
> lieux-dits qu'on ne peut plus trouver du tout en français.
> Bref Osmose ne détecte pas tout (il détecte juste ce qui est dans le COG).
>
> Il faudrait remonter les historiques des noms forcés en basque pour
> annuler les autres forçages faits massivement par cet utilisateur
> indélicat. OK pour garder des noms basques mais uniquement dans name:eu=*
> (histoire de ne pas trop contrarier cet utilisateur) tant qu'on restaure
> les toponymes français. Ca mériterait une analyse Osmose pour détecter les
> anomalies de renommages de toponymes qui s'éloignent trop du nom cadastral
> (attention, il est possible qu'il y ait des tonomymes cadastraux en basque
> et qui soient officiels.
>
> En attendant celui (ou ceux) qui a fait ça a foutu un gros bordel dans le
> géocodage qui ne fonctionne plus correctement pour les adresses.
>
> Le 2 octobre 2017 à 18:46, Bruno  a écrit :
>
>> Le 02/10/2017 à 18:36, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
>>
>> J'ai bien peut qu'avec ce qui se passe en Catalogne, le mouvement soit
>> lancé aussi pour le catalan en Espagne comme en France...
>>
>> Oui je l'ai dit au début , ces gens ne font pas de la cartographie mais
>> de la politique.
>> Au delà de ce constat ils ne respectent pas les règles OSM donc il faut
>> annuler les changements et  effectivement prévenir le DWG.
>>
>> Quelqu'un s'en occupe ? Pour ma part je ne sais faire ni l'un ni l'autre
>> mais je peux apprendre , j'ai fais une fois un revert sur un de mes
>> changements en masse..
>>
>
> Je suis d’accord sur le fait que le renommage forcé en basque moderne (ou
> autre langue non officielle) doit être proscrit sur le territoire français.
>
> J’aurais pensé que la communauté OSM française aurait pu, elle-même,
> procéder à la corection après avoir constaté la mauvaise volonté du
> contributeur fautif.
>
> Si une communication ne peut être établie, il ne reste que le DWG.
>
> Je n’ai pas réussi à contacter les Basques s’occupant de langue. Je serais
> intéressé par toute coordonnée.
>
> Je n’ai pas regardé, mais, il est plus que probable que les toponymes
> officiels (COG et cadastre) étaient en graphie basque ancienne ou déformée.
> Philippe, encore une fois, évite de prétendre que les toponymes officiels
> sont en français.
>

Là tu surinrteprète ce que je n'ai pas dit, et même j'ai précisé que dans
certains cas les toponymes locaux (dont la liste officielle est issue de la
commune qui les inscrit au cadastre) ne sont pas forcément francisé, chaque
commune ayant en charge sa toponymie et ses noms de rues et lieux-dits.
Mais pas la charge de se donner elles-même un nom sans accord préfectoral
pour les officialiser (ces noms peuvent changer et même adopter une graphie
ancienne en langue régionale, ce n'est pas un problème, mais cela deviendra
alors le nom "français" officiel, même si'l reste des noms français d'usage
plus ancien)


> Ce n’est vrai que pour une petite fraction d’entre eux.
>

Une très grosse fraction tu veux dire ! Les noms en langue régionale sont
plutôt la minorité. Quant au noms de rues ou rivières, ce n'est
certainement avec les termes génériques basque qu'on voit maintenant ("XXX
bidoa", etc...) à la place de "rue XXX", "avenue XXX", "rivière XXX".

Ces sagoins d'utilisateurs basques ont carrément supprimé le français
officiel (même si c'est à l'origine du basque françisé ou dans une graphie
basque plus ancienne). Et on a un sacré "bordel" maintenant pour trouver
les noms réellement vus et utilisés localement et publiés dans les
adresses.  Le géocodage est complètement foutu et ces utilisateurs
malveillants ont carrément cassé tout en imposant le basque comme seule
langue sans aucun lien avec les usages beaucoup plus nombreux.

Je note aussi qui'Osmose ne parveient plus à sauver les corrections vers la
base OSM (erreurs HTTP 500, lors de la sauvegarde mais pas moyen de garder
les corrections appliquées et marquées pourtant comme "résolues" du côté
Osmose).
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging "Shared space" roads (Preston City Centre)

[Matt Ellery]

I agree with the idea that living_street isn't appropriate for the town
centre roads identified here. I did notice that New Road in Brighton
(mentioned in the shared space Wikipedia article) has also been changed to
living_street by Pete Owens, although he has added access tags as well.

East Street in Horsham is another (sort of) example of a shared space and
has been tagged with the pedestrian/access tags method by lakedistrict. In
fact, the OSM wiki example of highway=pedestrian with access tags gets
pretty close to what I think of as a shared space, although there are some
differences in the priorities that are implied.

So I'd be OK with any of highway=* plus access tags; shared_space=yes;
traffic_calming=shared_space; or maybe even go for duck tagging them as
highway=shared_space?

Regards,
Matt

On 2 October 2017 at 12:35, Adam Snape  wrote:

> The photo of Exhibition Rd on Wikipedia makes it look deserted. I guess it
> is sensible to photograph a new road layout at a quiet time.  I actually
> walked along it not so long ago when visiting a museum and it certainly
> seemed to still be used by quite a lot of motor traffic. Not that I think
> traffic volume should necessarily determine tagging, but examples such as
> this, the primary roads in Poynton, anda couple of thoroughfares in
> Preston, do rather weaken the comparison to Home Zones or woonerven. There
> traffic would typically be very light, very slow and almost entirely for
> access. The more I look at the above examples, the more I am convinced that
> the presence of shared use design doesn't make these thoroughfares
> comparable to living_streets
>
> Adam
>
> On 2 October 2017 at 08:56, Paul Berry  wrote:
>
>> One of the most significant shared space street schemes in the country
>> (at least, the one that got the most publicity) is Exhibition Road. Here's
>> part of it: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34401602 and it's mapped as
>> living street even though it is not residential.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhibition_Road
>>
>> Should it be changed also?
>>
>> Regards,
>> *Paul*
>>
>> On 1 October 2017 at 23:17, Colin Smale  wrote:
>>
>>> And here's a road that wants to be a shared space but isn't there yet...
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/NHnieuws/videos/1627424217288914/
>>>
>>> The goal of reducing the traffic speed has been achieved, apparently.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-10-01 20:16, Richard Mann wrote:
>>>
>>> The classic shared space scheme in Haren:
>>>
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/53.17312/6.60310
>>>
>>> has no tags that I can see.
>>>
>>> I'd go for something like shared_space=yes for the moment. It's a
>>> "special" type of traffic calming.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Colin Smale 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Just like in the UK, the councils here make it up as they go along; a
 "shared space" has no special legal status, unlike a "woonerf".

 A general principle which has proved its worth is that to make things
 safer, you remove the safety features. Like white lines and kerbs. Everyone
 moans a bit, but in the mean time you slow down and watch out just that
 little bit more... Hence shared spaces, an apparent free-for-all that works
 well.

 On 2017-10-01 18:57, Andy Townsend wrote:

 Not an answer, but a suggestion where there might be a bit more info...

 The Netherlands forum https://forum.openstreetmap.or
 g/viewforum.php?id=12 might be worth a read, since the shared space
 concept was pioneered there; https://forum.openstreetmap.or
 g/viewtopic.php?id=54843 is directly about "shared_space" but a search
 for "woonerf" (aka "home zone") gets a whole bunch more hits.

 Best Regards,

 Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Importation des hauteurs de bâtiments sur Nice

[marc marc]

Bonsoir,

Le 30. 09. 17 à 13:10, Vincent Frison a écrit :
> J'ai fait la correction manuellement mais savez vous si avec l'Overpass 
> API j'aurais pu faire une petite requête remontant tous les bâtiments 
> dont la hauteur est supérieur à X mètres ? Le problème c'est que les 
> tags ne sont que des champs textes et j'ai pas l'impression qu'on puisse 
> utiliser des opérateurs genre inférieur ou supérieur sur les tags.

je pense pas que c'est possible en overpass api
mais tu peux toujours tester ce que donne > et/ou faire une proposition 
d'ajout de cette fonctionnalité.
Ceci dit, cela me semblerait utile de détecter l'anomalie au moment de 
l'import : si l'une des 2 valeurs manque ou est en dehors d'une certaine 
fourchette de valeur (idem pour la différence), considérer cela comme 
une erreur et ne pas modifier ce batiment automatiquement.

Cordialement,
Marc
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[Sébastien Dinot]

Bonsoir à tous,

Christian Rogel a écrit :
> Philippe, encore une fois, évite de prétendre que les toponymes
> officiels sont en français.

Je ne suis pas certain de suivre. Pour ma part, j'aurais tendance à dire
que les toponymes basques sont régionaux et ne correspondent pas, au
moins pour les villes et gros villages, aux toponymes officiels que je
qualifierais plus de « nationaux » que de « français » (mais le
raccourci est tentant). Voici à ce sujet un extrait de la « Charte de
toponymie du territoire français » :

http://ign.fr/sites/all/files/charte_toponymie_ign.pdf


3.1 - Les toponymes officiels

Les noms officiels sont ceux des entités administratives : régions,
départements, arrondissements, cantons, communes. D’après les lois en
vigueur, l’édition la plus récente du « Dénombrement de la population »,
publié par l’INSEE, est le document qui fixe la graphie officielle de
ces noms, à l’exclusion de toute autre publication émanant ou non d’une
administration (Poste, DDE...).

Par conséquent, les noms usités localement, et produits soit sur le
papier à en-tête soit sur le timbre de la mairie, ne présentent aucun
caractère officiel au sens légal de ce terme ; le nom de l’INSEE doit
dans tous les cas être retenu, même s’il est considéré comme erroné par
les autorités municipales : dans ce cas, il appartient au conseil
municipal d’engager la procédure prévue pour le changement du nom d’une
commune, action sans laquelle aucune rectification n’est possible.


La règle est donc simple à mes yeux :

  name=

Sans même parler de nom issu de la langue régionale, je sais que le nom
officiel ne convient pas toujours aux habitants, habitués à nommer leur
commune autrement. J'ai découvert cela lors de l'Opération Libre
à Brocas(-les-Forges) en 2013 :

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brocas

La ville s'appelait précédemment Brocas-Les-Forges, nom lié aux
anciennes forges de Brocas. Aujourd'hui, si le nom officiel de la
commune est Brocas, les panneaux d'entrée dans le village indiquent
toujours « Brocas-les-Forges ».


L'attribut « name » de cette commune dans OSM est bien « Brocas » et
« Brocas-les-Forges » est indiqué comme « alt_name ».

Sébastien

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Ne goûtez pas au logiciel libre, vous ne pourriez plus vous en passer !

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[Talk-lt] Naujas žemėlapis - vektorinis žemėlapis!

[Tomas Straupis]

Sveiki

  Atnaujintas http://openmap.lt žemėlapis. Mano žiniomis, tai pirmas
*lietuviškas* vektorinis žemėlapis!

  Jau dabar žemėlapį galite pasukti ar/ir pakreipti, spausti ant
lankytinų vietų, įsijungti Nacionalinės Žemės Tarnybos ortofoto. Ir
čia tik pradžia, nauja technologija leis artimiausiu metu pridėti daug
įdomaus funkcionalumo. O jau vien glotnus mastelio keitimas ko vertas!

  Daugiau informacijos tinklaraštyje:
  https://blog.openmap.lt/2017/10/02/vektorinis-zemelapis/

  Didžiausi sveikinimai Pauliui, kurio indėlis į šitą dalyką
didžiausias (programinės įrangos rinkimas, bandymai, techninės info
aiškinimasis, diegimas, puikūs pasiūlymai ir t.t. ir pan.)!
  Na ir koks gi techninis projektas apsieina be Ramūno :-)

P.S. Jei kas surasite noro ir laiko pažaisti su savo žemėlapio
stiliumi (tam nereikia įsidiegti JOKIOS programinės įrangos) -
nepamirškite pasidalinti. Būtų labai puiku šitame naujajame openmap.lt
turėti daaaug skirtingų gražių žemėlapio stilių.

-- 
Tomas

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rencontre mensuelle OSM-Lyon 10/10/2017 18h30 - Invitation

[marc marc]

Le 02. 10. 17 à 20:45, g...@laposte.net a écrit :
> Les mappeurs OSM de Lyon se rencontrent régulièrementtrès sympa 
> l'organisation avec le petit CR du mois précédent.
bonne continuation :)
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[Christian Rogel]

> Le 2017 Here 2 à 19:14, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :
> 
> Le renommage forcé en Basque est allé assez loin pour éliminer les toponymes 
> français du cadastre et les remplacer par les noms basques.
> Ce inclut non seulement es communes mais les villages et de nombrux 
> lieux-dits qu'on ne peut plus trouver du tout en français.
> Bref Osmose ne détecte pas tout (il détecte juste ce qui est dans le COG).
> 
> Il faudrait remonter les historiques des noms forcés en basque pour annuler 
> les autres forçages faits massivement par cet utilisateur indélicat. OK pour 
> garder des noms basques mais uniquement dans name:eu=* (histoire de ne pas 
> trop contrarier cet utilisateur) tant qu'on restaure les toponymes français. 
> Ca mériterait une analyse Osmose pour détecter les anomalies de renommages de 
> toponymes qui s'éloignent trop du nom cadastral (attention, il est possible 
> qu'il y ait des tonomymes cadastraux en basque et qui soient officiels.
> 
> En attendant celui (ou ceux) qui a fait ça a foutu un gros bordel dans le 
> géocodage qui ne fonctionne plus correctement pour les adresses.
> 
> Le 2 octobre 2017 à 18:46, Bruno > a 
> écrit :
> Le 02/10/2017 à 18:36, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
>> J'ai bien peut qu'avec ce qui se passe en Catalogne, le mouvement soit lancé 
>> aussi pour le catalan en Espagne comme en France...
>> 
> Oui je l'ai dit au début , ces gens ne font pas de la cartographie mais de la 
> politique.
> Au delà de ce constat ils ne respectent pas les règles OSM donc il faut 
> annuler les changements et  effectivement prévenir le DWG.
> 
> Quelqu'un s'en occupe ? Pour ma part je ne sais faire ni l'un ni l'autre mais 
> je peux apprendre , j'ai fais une fois un revert sur un de mes changements en 
> masse..

Je suis d’accord sur le fait que le renommage forcé en basque moderne (ou autre 
langue non officielle) doit être proscrit sur le territoire français.

J’aurais pensé que la communauté OSM française aurait pu, elle-même, procéder à 
la corection après avoir constaté la mauvaise volonté du contributeur fautif.

Si une communication ne peut être établie, il ne reste que le DWG.
 
Je n’ai pas réussi à contacter les Basques s’occupant de langue. Je serais 
intéressé par toute coordonnée.

Je n’ai pas regardé, mais, il est plus que probable que les toponymes officiels 
(COG et cadastre) étaient en graphie basque ancienne ou déformée.
Philippe, encore une fois, évite de prétendre que les toponymes officiels sont 
en français. 
Ce n’est vrai que pour une petite fraction d’entre eux.
C’est le même genre de bourde qu’a faite Macron en disant à des élèves que 
l’édit de Villers-Cotterêt (1539) avait pour objectif de faire parler le 
français par les sujets du Royaume.
Il avait seulement pour but d’unifier la langue des actes publics en en 
éjectant le latin et l’occitan.

La question convenablement posée est de mettre les restitutions modernes dans « 
name:eu »,  sauf si les communes ont modernisé leur nomenclature et, dans ce 
cas on a des appellations identiques et parallèles.

Dans ce dernier cas, je préconise de mettre « source:name: = copied from 
name », si on a une source officielle écrite d’une appellation modernisée 
(nécessté d’être compétent dans la langue).


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Re: [OSM-talk] A thought on bot edits

[Simon Poole]

I would suggest simply adapting my old suggestion (for imports) that as long as 
you fix the same number of elements from a broken import you can bot 
edit/import to your hearts desire.

Totally serious :-)

Simon

On 2. Oktober 2017 16:58:02 MESZ, Christoph Hormann  wrote:
>On Monday 02 October 2017, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>>
>> yes, keeping a lot of additional tags for a huge amount of objects in
>> the main db would still be a burden on everyone working with the
>> planet file or geographic extracts, so it seems logical to
>> externalize the bot-tags. But how would you link one db to the other?
>> If people don't see those tags (or only by request), their edits will
>> erode the information in this external db (e.g. by splitting ways,
>> deleting and redrawing parts, combining ways, etc.). What about
>> versions, will there be different versions of the same object in the
>> main db and this bot db? Is this a serious suggestion or just another
>> way of saying there are too many automated activities going on?
>
>It is a serious idea although i don't seriously expect this to be 
>implemented any time soon.  Less for technical reasons as you mentioned
>
>but for social reasons.  A huge part of the interest in making bot 
>edits stems from the idea to have the OSM community as cheap labour to 
>clean up after the bots and if you remove that incentive a lot of 
>motivation for making bot edits vanishes.
>
>Linking a separate bot editing database to the main OSM database is not
>
>that difficult in principle as long as we are only talking about tag 
>modifications on the bot side.  You would simply have a separate and 
>separately versioned 'bot tags' object for every object that has bot 
>tags.  Of course if bots should also be able to make geometry edits you
>
>would need rules for that - like bots may only edit geometries that 
>have no tag starting with something other than 'bot:' and that are not 
>member of a way or relation with tags other than 'bot:*'.  This would 
>then essentially mean any geometry edits by bots stay within the bot 
>database which would make things easier (you would have a 'bot tags' 
>table plus supplemental bot only geometries tables).
>
>That is of course all theoretical.  The more likely scenarios what will
>
>happen if bot editing activities spread even further are probably
>
>a) That more and more craft mappers get fed up with bots messing with 
>their work and manual editing activity declines overall -> OSM transits
>
>into a primarily bot maintained database.
>b) The craft mappers get fed up with the bots and decide to separate
>out 
>their work instead of that of the bots in form of some protection 
>(could be as simple as adding a 'bot=no' tag to features allowing 
>mappers to indicate 'bots may not touch this object i have just 
>mapped').
>
>-- 
>Christoph Hormann
>http://www.imagico.de/
>
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Re: [Talk-es] contact:website erróneo en la importación de farmacias de Madrid

[Rafael Avila Coya]

Hola, Alejandro:

Bastaría con descargar con overpass las farmacias, y luego eliminar el 
atributo de aquellas que no hayan cambiado el campo contact:website
He descargado todas las farmacias, y todas salvo una tienen el 
contact:website de la importación. La única que tiene uno diferente es 
contact:website="http://www.russianpost.ru;, que parece bastante 
sospechoso de ser incorrecto.


Eliminar la etiqueta de todas las farmacias es trivial, pero tiene que 
estar de acuerdo la comunidad OSM, especialmente la local. Además, yo lo 
haría con una cuenta especial...


Un saludo,

Rafael.

On 02/10/17 17:11, Alejandro Moreno wrote:
El ayuntamiento ha debido hacer algún cambio en su web y las url que se 
importaron en el campo contact:website de las farmacias de Madrid ya no 
existe. ¿Sabéis si hay alguna forma automatizada de eliminar este atributo?


Un saludo.


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Re: [Talk-it] Posizionamento grotte naturali

[Damjan Gerl]

02.10.2017 - 20:33 - Massimo Taronna:

Ciao a tutti,
ho partecipato la scorsa domenica al mapping party di Viverone e 
volevo cominciare ad inserire alcuni elementi.
Sto raccogliendo posizionamenti di grotte piemontesi con il mio GPS e 
volevo inserire quelle che sono presenti nel Catasto del Piemonte.
Sul terreno sono identificate da una placchetta metallica che riporta 
il numero di catasto.

Pensavo di procedere con le seguenti chiavi:

natural = cave_entrance
name = nome a catasto
alt_name = eventuale nome alternativo
ele = quota rilevata con il GPS
ref = codice catastale (numero seguito da PI/sigla provincia)

Vorrei far rilevare anche la presenza della targhetta, che riporta 
solo la parte numerica del codice catastale, ma non so che chiave usare.


Non so se ne avete già discusso in passato, non ho trovato il modo di 
fare una ricerca nei vari thread di discussione.


Grazie per l'aiuto.


--
*/Massimo Taronna/*


Ciao!
Non ref, ma cave:ref = 
, o forse anche cave:ref:it:PI= (ma qui sarebbe da aprire un piccolo 
dibattito). In FVG per ora mettiamo solo cave:ref= per i numeri 
regionali, e cave:old_ref per i numeri dei catasti storici VG e FR (es. 
100VG, 299FR).


Forse un contatto con il catasto sarebbe auspicabile, in quanto il 
catasto già dispone di dati ufficiali.


Per la targhetta non saprei, forse da inventare qualcosa...

Ciao
Damjan

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[john whelan]

>And for further clarification, many Wikidata tags that have been added
in the past six months have been added in blatant violation of the
mechanical edit guidelines, and we should think about whether they
should be removed again until such time as people actually have the time
to do it properly and manually.

I would support such a move.

Cheerio John

On 2 October 2017 at 14:39, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 02.10.2017 13:06, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> > For clarification - since this is often a point of misunderstandings -
> > if an edit is a mechanical edit or import does not depends on the tools
> > used, it depends on if the modifications are made individually feature
> > by feature based on individual, informed assessment of the local
> > situation or if it is made in bulk without each feature being evaluated
> > individually - and doing this by clicking a button a hundred times
> > instead of scripting it of course does not qualify as manual
> > evaluation.
>
> And for further clarification, many Wikidata tags that have been added
> in the past six months have been added in blatant violation of the
> mechanical edit guidelines, and we should think about whether they
> should be removed again until such time as people actually have the time
> to do it properly and manually.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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[OSM-talk-fr] Rencontre mensuelle OSM-Lyon 10/10/2017 18h30 - Invitation

[gnrc]

Bonjour à tous, 

Les mappeurs OSM de Lyon se rencontrent régulièrement le 2ème mardi de chaque 
mois, et chacun peut s'inviter et participer à ces rencontres. La prochaine 
aura lieu : 

le MARDI 10 OCTOBRE à partir de 18h30 
à l'espace "Infolab TUBA, 1 Place Charles Béraudier, 69003 LYON" (esplanade 
gare Part-dieu). 

Accès : M° "Gare Part-Dieu"; Tram T1; Bus C1, C2, C6, C7, C13, C25, 25, 37, 38, 
70 ; Vélo'V "Gare Part-Dieu Ouest" 

Le CR de la rencontre précédente se trouve sur la page du Wiki-OSM au lien : 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lyon/Reunion_12_septembre_2017 

Si vous souhaitez mettre un sujet particulier à l'ordre du jour de la rencontre 
à venir, vous pouvez commenter la page préparatoire au lien : 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lyon/Reunion_10_octobre_2017 

Venez nombreux ! 
Amicalement 

gnrc69 - Chaque goutte rempli l’océan (du libre) ! 

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 02.10.2017 13:06, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> For clarification - since this is often a point of misunderstandings - 
> if an edit is a mechanical edit or import does not depends on the tools 
> used, it depends on if the modifications are made individually feature 
> by feature based on individual, informed assessment of the local 
> situation or if it is made in bulk without each feature being evaluated 
> individually - and doing this by clicking a button a hundred times 
> instead of scripting it of course does not qualify as manual 
> evaluation.

And for further clarification, many Wikidata tags that have been added
in the past six months have been added in blatant violation of the
mechanical edit guidelines, and we should think about whether they
should be removed again until such time as people actually have the time
to do it properly and manually.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 01.10.2017 13:13, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> I find it fascinating how both you and Yuri seem to be eager to always 
> deflect the discussion from the main subject, namely the automated 
> editing/addition of wikidata IDs and misinterpreting constructive 
> critique of that as an attempt to tell local mappers what tags they may 
> and may not add to the things they map.

I would have much less of an issue with the wikidata stuff if it was
indeed added by local mappers. Instead, I have Yuri adding, modifying,
and re-adding Wikidata tags all over the planet and ignoring most calls
for moderation, and Andy Mabbett from England editing supermarkets in
Germany.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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[Talk-GB] Merse Gateway

[Andy Robinson]

Mersey Gateway bridge due to open Sunday.

 

Cheers

Andy

 

 

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[Talk-it] Posizionamento grotte naturali

[Massimo Taronna]

Ciao a tutti,
ho partecipato la scorsa domenica al mapping party di Viverone e volevo
cominciare ad inserire alcuni elementi.
Sto raccogliendo posizionamenti di grotte piemontesi con il mio GPS e
volevo inserire quelle che sono presenti nel Catasto del Piemonte.
Sul terreno sono identificate da una placchetta metallica che riporta il
numero di catasto.
Pensavo di procedere con le seguenti chiavi:

natural = cave_entrance
name = nome a catasto
alt_name = eventuale nome alternativo
ele = quota rilevata con il GPS
ref = codice catastale (numero seguito da PI/sigla provincia)

Vorrei far rilevare anche la presenza della targhetta, che riporta solo la
parte numerica del codice catastale, ma non so che chiave usare.

Non so se ne avete già discusso in passato, non ho trovato il modo di fare
una ricerca nei vari thread di discussione.

Grazie per l'aiuto.


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Re: [OSM-talk] A thought on bot edits

[Yves]

Actually, if you find the way to keep a db handling a property (or tag) of OSM 
element in sync with OSM, you have solved the need for UID. And if you happen 
to do so without UID or API change , it's very nice ! 


Le 2 octobre 2017 15:59:48 GMT+02:00, Christoph Hormann  a 
écrit :
>
>With all the recent endeavors to push more automated edits in OSM and 
>with the related rules and policies clearly failing (just look at 
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Automated_edits_log and 
>compare that to what is actually taking place in terms of automated 
>edits these days) i just had the idea that it might be a lot easier and
>
>better if we replace all current regulations of automated edits with a 
>simple rule:
>
>Automated edits of any kind may freely add or edit tags with keys 
>starting with 'bot:' but may not under any circumstances touch any 
>other tags.
>
>This way people could go crazy bot editing whatever they want in that 
>namespace but would not interfere with manual mapping activity and data
>
>consumers could choose freely if the want bot edited information and if
>
>they do if they want to give it priority over manually verified data.  
>And mappers could configure their editors to hide the bot tags if they 
>are not interested in them.
>
>Of course considering the big volume of editing activity that would 
>likely take place in the 'bot:' namespace in that scenario it might be 
>a good idea to put those tags into a separate database for efficiency 
>reasons.
>
>-- 
>Christoph Hormann
>http://www.imagico.de/
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[marc marc]

Bonsoir,

Comme prévu, on ne s'en sortira pas sans passer au niveau au dessus
cad DWR pour blocage/révert pour cause de vandalisme
+ éventuellement bot pour détecter + tôt la réapparition du problème.

Cordialement,
Marc

Le 02. 10. 17 à 19:14, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
> Le renommage forcé en Basque est allé assez loin pour éliminer les 
> toponymes français du cadastre et les remplacer par les noms basques.
> Ce inclut non seulement es communes mais les villages et de nombrux 
> lieux-dits qu'on ne peut plus trouver du tout en français.
> Bref Osmose ne détecte pas tout (il détecte juste ce qui est dans le COG).
> 
> Il faudrait remonter les historiques des noms forcés en basque pour 
> annuler les autres forçages faits massivement par cet utilisateur 
> indélicat. OK pour garder des noms basques mais uniquement dans 
> name:eu=* (histoire de ne pas trop contrarier cet utilisateur) tant 
> qu'on restaure les toponymes français. Ca mériterait une analyse Osmose 
> pour détecter les anomalies de renommages de toponymes qui s'éloignent 
> trop du nom cadastral (attention, il est possible qu'il y ait des 
> tonomymes cadastraux en basque et qui soient officiels.
> 
> En attendant celui (ou ceux) qui a fait ça a foutu un gros bordel dans 
> le géocodage qui ne fonctionne plus correctement pour les adresses.
> 
> Le 2 octobre 2017 à 18:46, Bruno > 
> a écrit :
> 
> Le 02/10/2017 à 18:36, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
>> J'ai bien peut qu'avec ce qui se passe en Catalogne, le mouvement
>> soit lancé aussi pour le catalan en Espagne comme en France...
>>
> Oui je l'ai dit au début , ces gens ne font pas de la cartographie
> mais de la politique.
> Au delà de ce constat ils ne respectent pas les règles OSM donc il
> faut annuler les changements et  effectivement prévenir le DWG.
> 
> Quelqu'un s'en occupe ? Pour ma part je ne sais faire ni l'un ni
> l'autre mais je peux apprendre , j'ai fais une fois un revert sur un
> de mes changements en masse..
> 
> Bruno.
>> Le 2 octobre 2017 à 18:26, David Crochet > > a écrit :
>>
>> Bonjour
>>
>>
>> Le 02/10/2017 à 16:55, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
>>
>> Cette fois ci c'est carrément abusif et le DWG devrait
>> être avisé de ce comportement destructeurs de la part de
>> quelques contributeurs trop zélés qui n'ont même pas pris
>> la peine de garder au moins un "name:fr=*".
>>
>>
>> +1
>> Et voir ci cela ne dépasse pas les frontières francophones
>>
>> Cordialement
>>
>> -- 
>> David Crochet
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[Philippe Verdy]

Le renommage forcé en Basque est allé assez loin pour éliminer les
toponymes français du cadastre et les remplacer par les noms basques.
Ce inclut non seulement es communes mais les villages et de nombrux
lieux-dits qu'on ne peut plus trouver du tout en français.
Bref Osmose ne détecte pas tout (il détecte juste ce qui est dans le COG).

Il faudrait remonter les historiques des noms forcés en basque pour annuler
les autres forçages faits massivement par cet utilisateur indélicat. OK
pour garder des noms basques mais uniquement dans name:eu=* (histoire de ne
pas trop contrarier cet utilisateur) tant qu'on restaure les toponymes
français. Ca mériterait une analyse Osmose pour détecter les anomalies de
renommages de toponymes qui s'éloignent trop du nom cadastral (attention,
il est possible qu'il y ait des tonomymes cadastraux en basque et qui
soient officiels.

En attendant celui (ou ceux) qui a fait ça a foutu un gros bordel dans le
géocodage qui ne fonctionne plus correctement pour les adresses.

Le 2 octobre 2017 à 18:46, Bruno  a écrit :

> Le 02/10/2017 à 18:36, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
>
> J'ai bien peut qu'avec ce qui se passe en Catalogne, le mouvement soit
> lancé aussi pour le catalan en Espagne comme en France...
>
> Oui je l'ai dit au début , ces gens ne font pas de la cartographie mais de
> la politique.
> Au delà de ce constat ils ne respectent pas les règles OSM donc il faut
> annuler les changements et  effectivement prévenir le DWG.
>
> Quelqu'un s'en occupe ? Pour ma part je ne sais faire ni l'un ni l'autre
> mais je peux apprendre , j'ai fais une fois un revert sur un de mes
> changements en masse..
>
> Bruno.
>
> Le 2 octobre 2017 à 18:26, David Crochet  a écrit :
>
>> Bonjour
>>
>>
>> Le 02/10/2017 à 16:55, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
>>
>>> Cette fois ci c'est carrément abusif et le DWG devrait être avisé de ce
>>> comportement destructeurs de la part de quelques contributeurs trop zélés
>>> qui n'ont même pas pris la peine de garder au moins un "name:fr=*".
>>>
>>
>> +1
>> Et voir ci cela ne dépasse pas les frontières francophones
>>
>> Cordialement
>>
>> --
>> David Crochet
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] A thought on bot edits

[Pierre Béland]

Christoph Hormann wrote:
> a) I am unmotivated to map in areas where imports are in progress or 
> regularly taking place (yes, i am talking about Canada).

We often see such reactions (what is good, what is bad) without any analysis of 
the situation.
Do you know Canada, have you tried to measure the effort to map the millions of 
lakes, the efforts to spot nordic villages, roads, industrie, tourism 
activities spread over a huge territory and where this is not the priority to 
provide new high resolution maps?  

This is quite demotivating for us working hard to map north of Canada to 
continously see such negative messages about our work ;)
 regard

Pierre 


  De : Christoph Hormann 
 À : talk@openstreetmap.org 
 Envoyé le : lundi 2 octobre 2017 12h53
 Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] A thought on bot edits
   
On Monday 02 October 2017, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> I find this discussion and your proposal interesting to explore, at
> least as a hypothetical. Do we know 1) what the volume of bot edits
> is and how it has grown 

No, but i thought as well this would be an interesting thing to study.  
Of course you would need to make some definition of what a bot edit is 
that can be automatically analyzed - which is difficult.  But even a 
hairy definition might allow to identify rough trends.

There is little doubt that the volume of bot edits has grown recently 
but if it has actually grown much faster than the manual editing volume 
overall is not easy to determine.  I mostly look at remote areas and 
there the raise in dominance of automated editing activities is massive 
but the manual editing activity in these areas has always been small 
and sporadic so this is certainly not an observation you can 
extrapolate to the whole.

> 2) how many mappers have actually given up 
> based upon this? 

Again i can only answer this based on my own experience and

a) I am unmotivated to map in areas where imports are in progress or 
regularly taking place (yes, i am talking about Canada).
b) My primary motivation for mapping in OSM is that what i map gets 
improved by other craft mappers so what we produce together is better 
than what each of us can produce on our own.  If the only changes that 
are going to be made to my mapping work after i upload it to OSM are 
made by bots there would be no results from that that would be any 
better than what i could produce on my own because i could simply run 
the bots on my own privately mapped data.

Of course i am certainly not representative for the typical mappers.  I 
would suspect there are probably mappers that would be attracted and 
motivated by an OSM project where bots routinely 'fix' data 
inconsistencies like typos in tags, different spellings of common names 
or automatically orthogonalize building geometries.  But there are 
others who don't like this.  One motivation behind my suggestion was 
that this would allow mappers to embrace bot edits but also allows them 
to reject this and decide they only want to interact with other craft 
mappers and not with bots.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] A thought on bot edits

[Christoph Hormann]

On Monday 02 October 2017, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> I find this discussion and your proposal interesting to explore, at
> least as a hypothetical. Do we know 1) what the volume of bot edits
> is and how it has grown 

No, but i thought as well this would be an interesting thing to study.  
Of course you would need to make some definition of what a bot edit is 
that can be automatically analyzed - which is difficult.  But even a 
hairy definition might allow to identify rough trends.

There is little doubt that the volume of bot edits has grown recently 
but if it has actually grown much faster than the manual editing volume 
overall is not easy to determine.  I mostly look at remote areas and 
there the raise in dominance of automated editing activities is massive 
but the manual editing activity in these areas has always been small 
and sporadic so this is certainly not an observation you can 
extrapolate to the whole.

> 2) how many mappers have actually given up 
> based upon this? 

Again i can only answer this based on my own experience and

a) I am unmotivated to map in areas where imports are in progress or 
regularly taking place (yes, i am talking about Canada).
b) My primary motivation for mapping in OSM is that what i map gets 
improved by other craft mappers so what we produce together is better 
than what each of us can produce on our own.  If the only changes that 
are going to be made to my mapping work after i upload it to OSM are 
made by bots there would be no results from that that would be any 
better than what i could produce on my own because i could simply run 
the bots on my own privately mapped data.

Of course i am certainly not representative for the typical mappers.  I 
would suspect there are probably mappers that would be attracted and 
motivated by an OSM project where bots routinely 'fix' data 
inconsistencies like typos in tags, different spellings of common names 
or automatically orthogonalize building geometries.  But there are 
others who don't like this.  One motivation behind my suggestion was 
that this would allow mappers to embrace bot edits but also allows them 
to reject this and decide they only want to interact with other craft 
mappers and not with bots.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[Bruno]

Le 02/10/2017 à 18:36, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
J'ai bien peut qu'avec ce qui se passe en Catalogne, le mouvement soit 
lancé aussi pour le catalan en Espagne comme en France...


Oui je l'ai dit au début , ces gens ne font pas de la cartographie mais 
de la politique.
Au delà de ce constat ils ne respectent pas les règles OSM donc il faut 
annuler les changements et  effectivement prévenir le DWG.


Quelqu'un s'en occupe ? Pour ma part je ne sais faire ni l'un ni l'autre 
mais je peux apprendre , j'ai fais une fois un revert sur un de mes 
changements en masse..


Bruno.
Le 2 octobre 2017 à 18:26, David Crochet > a écrit :


Bonjour


Le 02/10/2017 à 16:55, Philippe Verdy a écrit :

Cette fois ci c'est carrément abusif et le DWG devrait être
avisé de ce comportement destructeurs de la part de quelques
contributeurs trop zélés qui n'ont même pas pris la peine de
garder au moins un "name:fr=*".


+1
Et voir ci cela ne dépasse pas les frontières francophones

Cordialement

-- 
David Crochet




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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[Philippe Verdy]

J'ai bien peut qu'avec ce qui se passe en Catalogne, le mouvement soit
lancé aussi pour le catalan en Espagne comme en France...

Le 2 octobre 2017 à 18:26, David Crochet  a écrit :

> Bonjour
>
>
> Le 02/10/2017 à 16:55, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
>
>> Cette fois ci c'est carrément abusif et le DWG devrait être avisé de ce
>> comportement destructeurs de la part de quelques contributeurs trop zélés
>> qui n'ont même pas pris la peine de garder au moins un "name:fr=*".
>>
>
> +1
> Et voir ci cela ne dépasse pas les frontières francophones
>
> Cordialement
>
> --
> David Crochet
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSMCha isn't showing new changesets

[Jinal Foflia]

Hello Safwat,

The issue that was causing has been resolved and new changesets can now be
viewed on OSMCha. Thank you!

Cheers,
Jinal Foflia

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Safwat Halaby  wrote:

> https://osmcha.mapbox.com/ hasn't been showing new changesets since 5
> days. Does anyone know why?
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[David Crochet]

Bonjour


Le 02/10/2017 à 16:55, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
Cette fois ci c'est carrément abusif et le DWG devrait être avisé de 
ce comportement destructeurs de la part de quelques contributeurs trop 
zélés qui n'ont même pas pris la peine de garder au moins un "name:fr=*".


+1
Et voir ci cela ne dépasse pas les frontières francophones

Cordialement

--
David Crochet


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Re: [OSM-talk] A thought on bot edits

[Pierre Béland]

We often see critics about Bots and import accounts. Should we oppose crafters 
vs Bots? Who are crafters, who are Bots?  I suspect that they often can be the 
same ;) from the few thousand intensely active OSM contributors. And not all 
imports or Bots harm our database content. For an informed decision we simply 
need to know better about these Bots and Imports.  

To compile statististices about the OSM Contributors profiles, I am actually 
going through the http://planet.osm.org/replication/changesets/. Not easy to 
identify Bots and Imports from the Changesets metadata. Before 2012, there was 
no specific account for imports. And since 2012, you often have to read the 
contributors user profile from the OSM API to verify if this is an import 
account since not all use a prefix or suffix with import. 
For Bots, you can try to identify the user name that contains words such as 
Bot, mechanical, repair, fix, etc. But this is relatively imprecise.  You can 
also searh the Changesets metadata to see reference to Bot Edit sessions.
If somebody knows a better way to identify Import accounts and Bots, I am 
interested about that.
 
Pierre 


  De : Martijn van Exel 
 À : Christoph Hormann  
Cc : "talk@openstreetmap.org" 
 Envoyé le : lundi 2 octobre 2017 11h17
 Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] A thought on bot edits
   
I find this discussion and your proposal interesting to explore, at least as a 
hypothetical. Do we know 1) what the volume of bot edits is and how it has 
grown 2) how many mappers have actually given up based upon this? My guess is 
that instead of coming up with a global solution, this could be left to the 
local communities to decide. For example, where I live (USA) there does not 
seem to be as much resistance to automated edits to make such a change 
desirable / necessary. The effect of introducing a new tagging requirement for, 
or even entirely separating out automated edits into a different database, may 
have a different (or even an opposite) effect in communities that look more 
favorably upon these types of edits.
Martijn

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[Talk-ca] Fwd: Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[Martijn van Exel]

Sorry, I sent this and the next message from the wrong email and it bounced
because of that..

-- Forwarded message --
From: Martijn van Exel 
Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs
To: Matthew Darwin 
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 


Sorry to cause confusion. I am not talking about street names, just the
street part of signposts on limited access highways, as depicted in
https://github.com/TelenavMapping/mapping-projects/issues/27. There is
documentation + examples on this in the Exit Info wiki page (
wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Exit_Info) and after discussing with the US
community has been put into wider use there.

The destination:street:[ISO language code] would be a new extension, and
while I am not super fond of deeper colon separated tag hierarchies, this
is the way it seems to make the most sense when compared with the name:[ISO
language code] tag.

Martijn

Martijn van Exel
skype: mvexel

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Matthew Darwin  wrote:

> No,
>
> This is about the "desination" sign that you find on major highways,
> usually they are green.  "Exit 114 chemin Anderson Road" or whatever.
>
> And this specific issue is about road signs in New Brunswick, and New
> Brunswick is the only official bilingual province in Canada.
>
> Matthew Darwinmatthew@mdarwin.cahttp://www.mdarwin.ca
>
> On 2017-10-02 11:01 AM, john whelan wrote:
>
> > destination:street
>
> I'm confused by this.  According to taginfo there are only 11,000 entries
> and there is no wiki page.
>
> We have highway=residential, name=xyz street, name:fr=rue xyz
>
> I assume name here is what you mean.
>
> Ottawa is not officially bilingual, it is officially English but services
> are offered in French.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names
>
> also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:Ontario:Ottawa and look
> for bilingual street names.
>
> Different parts of Canada have different rules according to who is the
> authority for naming streets or setting the rules for naming streets.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
>
> On 2 October 2017 at 10:10, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>
>> Thank you for all the responses. It seems that using destination:street
>> is expected to have the name in the local official language. If the sign is
>> bilingual, I propose then to add the other name as destination:street:en or
>> destination:street:fr, respectively. This is not yet a documented tag, but
>> I see no other sensible way to do it and it seems to me that it would be a
>> logical extension, considering we already have name:[language ISO code]
>> tags in wide use.
>>
>> Does this sound agreeable?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Martijn
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Pierre Béland  wrote:
>>
>>> Les différentes provinces ou états ont souvent un organisme responsable
>>> de faire l'inventaire des noms officiels. Au Québec,  c'est la Commission
>>> de toponymie qui est responsable.
>>> http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.ca/ct/accueil.aspx
>>>
>>> Sur leur site, on retrouve des listes de noms et les règles qui
>>> s'appliquent pour les noms au Québec.
>>> Pour les règles, voir http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.c
>>> a/ct/normes-procedures/regles-ecriture/
>>>
>>> Les noms affichés sur Geobase.ca correspondent souvent à ces règles
>>> puisque les données de Ressources naturelles Canada sont fournies par les
>>> provinces. Par contre, il peut y avoir un certain retard lors de
>>> modifications de noms. Dans la section Fournisseurs d'image de JOSM, on
>>> retrouve un lien vers la couche RRN de Geobase. Les données sont aussi
>>> disponibles par province en shapefile.
>>> http://ouvert.canada.ca/data/fr/dataset/3d282116-e556-400c-9
>>> 306-ca1a3cada77f
>>>
>>> cordialement
>>>
>>> Pierre
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *De :* john whelan 
>>> *À :* Martijn van Exel 
>>> *Cc :* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
>>> *Envoyé le :* vendredi 29 Septembre 2017 16h52
>>> *Objet :* Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs
>>>
>>> Whilst I think about it Ottawa is an amalgam of smaller municipalities
>>> so is slowly changing street names to avoid duplicates.  I seem to recall
>>> an employee in the street naming bit is adjusting street names in OSM.  So
>>> please do not change a street name to match a photo that might have been
>>> taken some time ago.
>>>
>>> In Quebec I understand province wide the standard for names on maps is
>>> "Rue xyz" in Ontario it is left to the municipality whether to capitalise
>>> the first letter or not so you need to know the rules for each municipality.
>>>
>>> Have fun
>>>
>>> Cheerio John
>>>
>>> On 29 Sep 2017 4:20 pm, "john whelan"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Ottawa is one of the few places that has bilingual street names.
>>>
>>> On the same street I've 

Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[john whelan]

Thank you for the clarification.  Could some one do a write up in the wiki
on destination:street please.

Note to Martin looks like you need a New Brunswick mapper to say what the
local rules are.

Cheerio John

On 2 October 2017 at 11:06, Matthew Darwin  wrote:

> No,
>
> This is about the "desination" sign that you find on major highways,
> usually they are green.  "Exit 114 chemin Anderson Road" or whatever.
>
> And this specific issue is about road signs in New Brunswick, and New
> Brunswick is the only official bilingual province in Canada.
>
> Matthew Darwinmatthew@mdarwin.cahttp://www.mdarwin.ca
>
> On 2017-10-02 11:01 AM, john whelan wrote:
>
> > destination:street
>
> I'm confused by this.  According to taginfo there are only 11,000 entries
> and there is no wiki page.
>
> We have highway=residential, name=xyz street, name:fr=rue xyz
>
> I assume name here is what you mean.
>
> Ottawa is not officially bilingual, it is officially English but services
> are offered in French.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names
>
> also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:Ontario:Ottawa and look
> for bilingual street names.
>
> Different parts of Canada have different rules according to who is the
> authority for naming streets or setting the rules for naming streets.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
>
> On 2 October 2017 at 10:10, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>
>> Thank you for all the responses. It seems that using destination:street
>> is expected to have the name in the local official language. If the sign is
>> bilingual, I propose then to add the other name as destination:street:en or
>> destination:street:fr, respectively. This is not yet a documented tag, but
>> I see no other sensible way to do it and it seems to me that it would be a
>> logical extension, considering we already have name:[language ISO code]
>> tags in wide use.
>>
>> Does this sound agreeable?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Martijn
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Pierre Béland  wrote:
>>
>>> Les différentes provinces ou états ont souvent un organisme responsable
>>> de faire l'inventaire des noms officiels. Au Québec,  c'est la Commission
>>> de toponymie qui est responsable.
>>> http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.ca/ct/accueil.aspx
>>>
>>> Sur leur site, on retrouve des listes de noms et les règles qui
>>> s'appliquent pour les noms au Québec.
>>> Pour les règles, voir http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.c
>>> a/ct/normes-procedures/regles-ecriture/
>>>
>>> Les noms affichés sur Geobase.ca correspondent souvent à ces règles
>>> puisque les données de Ressources naturelles Canada sont fournies par les
>>> provinces. Par contre, il peut y avoir un certain retard lors de
>>> modifications de noms. Dans la section Fournisseurs d'image de JOSM, on
>>> retrouve un lien vers la couche RRN de Geobase. Les données sont aussi
>>> disponibles par province en shapefile.
>>> http://ouvert.canada.ca/data/fr/dataset/3d282116-e556-400c-9
>>> 306-ca1a3cada77f
>>>
>>> cordialement
>>>
>>> Pierre
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *De :* john whelan 
>>> *À :* Martijn van Exel 
>>> *Cc :* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
>>> *Envoyé le :* vendredi 29 Septembre 2017 16h52
>>> *Objet :* Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs
>>>
>>> Whilst I think about it Ottawa is an amalgam of smaller municipalities
>>> so is slowly changing street names to avoid duplicates.  I seem to recall
>>> an employee in the street naming bit is adjusting street names in OSM.  So
>>> please do not change a street name to match a photo that might have been
>>> taken some time ago.
>>>
>>> In Quebec I understand province wide the standard for names on maps is
>>> "Rue xyz" in Ontario it is left to the municipality whether to capitalise
>>> the first letter or not so you need to know the rules for each municipality.
>>>
>>> Have fun
>>>
>>> Cheerio John
>>>
>>> On 29 Sep 2017 4:20 pm, "john whelan"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Ottawa is one of the few places that has bilingual street names.
>>>
>>> On the same street I've seen just the name, name street and rue name
>>> street signs.
>>>
>>> In Ottawa the majority are Slater street in name then rue Slater in
>>> name:french.
>>>
>>> Anything else means it is difficult to search for the name
>>> electronically.  "rue Slater Street"  is not easy to enter.
>>>
>>> Note for Ottawa it is rue Slater not Rue Slater.  Other places such as
>>> Quebec may have different rules.
>>>
>>> Cheerio John
>>> .
>>>
>>> On 29 Sep 2017 4:10 pm, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> How do you map bilingual signposts? Ones that say for example 'Rue
>>> Regent St'?
>>> My thought would be destination:street=[name in primary language for the
>>> province] and destination:street:en / destination:street:fr for the name in
>>> the other language. But I've also seen just 

Re: [OSM-talk] A thought on bot edits

[Martijn van Exel]

I find this discussion and your proposal interesting to explore, at least
as a hypothetical. Do we know 1) what the volume of bot edits is and how it
has grown 2) how many mappers have actually given up based upon this? My
guess is that instead of coming up with a global solution, this could be
left to the local communities to decide. For example, where I live (USA)
there does not seem to be as much resistance to automated edits to make
such a change desirable / necessary. The effect of introducing a new
tagging requirement for, or even entirely separating out automated edits
into a different database, may have a different (or even an opposite)
effect in communities that look more favorably upon these types of edits.
Martijn

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Christoph Hormann  wrote:

> On Monday 02 October 2017, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> >
> > yes, keeping a lot of additional tags for a huge amount of objects in
> > the main db would still be a burden on everyone working with the
> > planet file or geographic extracts, so it seems logical to
> > externalize the bot-tags. But how would you link one db to the other?
> > If people don't see those tags (or only by request), their edits will
> > erode the information in this external db (e.g. by splitting ways,
> > deleting and redrawing parts, combining ways, etc.). What about
> > versions, will there be different versions of the same object in the
> > main db and this bot db? Is this a serious suggestion or just another
> > way of saying there are too many automated activities going on?
>
> It is a serious idea although i don't seriously expect this to be
> implemented any time soon.  Less for technical reasons as you mentioned
> but for social reasons.  A huge part of the interest in making bot
> edits stems from the idea to have the OSM community as cheap labour to
> clean up after the bots and if you remove that incentive a lot of
> motivation for making bot edits vanishes.
>
> Linking a separate bot editing database to the main OSM database is not
> that difficult in principle as long as we are only talking about tag
> modifications on the bot side.  You would simply have a separate and
> separately versioned 'bot tags' object for every object that has bot
> tags.  Of course if bots should also be able to make geometry edits you
> would need rules for that - like bots may only edit geometries that
> have no tag starting with something other than 'bot:' and that are not
> member of a way or relation with tags other than 'bot:*'.  This would
> then essentially mean any geometry edits by bots stay within the bot
> database which would make things easier (you would have a 'bot tags'
> table plus supplemental bot only geometries tables).
>
> That is of course all theoretical.  The more likely scenarios what will
> happen if bot editing activities spread even further are probably
>
> a) That more and more craft mappers get fed up with bots messing with
> their work and manual editing activity declines overall -> OSM transits
> into a primarily bot maintained database.
> b) The craft mappers get fed up with the bots and decide to separate out
> their work instead of that of the bots in form of some protection
> (could be as simple as adding a 'bot=no' tag to features allowing
> mappers to indicate 'bots may not touch this object i have just
> mapped').
>
> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
>
> ___
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
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[Talk-es] contact:website erróneo en la importación de farmacias de Madrid

[Alejandro Moreno]

El ayuntamiento ha debido hacer algún cambio en su web y las url que se
importaron en el campo contact:website de las farmacias de Madrid ya no
existe. ¿Sabéis si hay alguna forma automatizada de eliminar este atributo?

Un saludo.
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Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[Matthew Darwin]

No,

This is about the "desination" sign that you find on major highways, 
usually they are green.  "Exit 114 chemin Anderson Road" or whatever.


And this specific issue is about road signs in New Brunswick, and New 
Brunswick is the only official bilingual province in Canada.


Matthew Darwin
matt...@mdarwin.ca
http://www.mdarwin.ca

On 2017-10-02 11:01 AM, john whelan wrote:

> destination:street

I'm confused by this.  According to taginfo there are only 11,000 
entries and there is no wiki page.


We have highway=residential, name=xyz street, name:fr=rue xyz

I assume name here is what you mean.

Ottawa is not officially bilingual, it is officially English but 
services are offered in French.


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names

also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:Ontario:Ottawa and 
look for bilingual street names.


Different parts of Canada have different rules according to who is 
the authority for naming streets or setting the rules for naming 
streets.


Cheerio John



On 2 October 2017 at 10:10, Martijn van Exel > wrote:


Thank you for all the responses. It seems that using
destination:street is expected to have the name in the local
official language. If the sign is bilingual, I propose then to
add the other name as destination:street:en or
destination:street:fr, respectively. This is not yet a
documented tag, but I see no other sensible way to do it and it
seems to me that it would be a logical extension, considering we
already have name:[language ISO code] tags in wide use.

Does this sound agreeable?

Thanks
Martijn

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Pierre Béland
> wrote:

Les différentes provinces ou états ont souvent un organisme
responsable de faire l'inventaire des noms officiels. Au
Québec,  c'est la Commission de toponymie qui est responsable.
http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.ca/ct/accueil.aspx


Sur leur site, on retrouve des listes de noms et les règles
qui s'appliquent pour les noms au Québec.
Pour les règles, voir
http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.ca/ct/normes-procedures/regles-ecriture/


Les noms affichés sur Geobase.ca correspondent souvent à ces
règles puisque les données de Ressources naturelles Canada
sont fournies par les provinces. Par contre, il peut y avoir
un certain retard lors de modifications de noms. Dans la
section Fournisseurs d'image de JOSM, on retrouve un lien
vers la couche RRN de Geobase. Les données sont aussi
disponibles par province en shapefile.

http://ouvert.canada.ca/data/fr/dataset/3d282116-e556-400c-9306-ca1a3cada77f



cordialement

Pierre


--
*De :* john whelan >
*À :* Martijn van Exel >
*Cc :* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap >
*Envoyé le :* vendredi 29 Septembre 2017 16h52
*Objet :* Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

Whilst I think about it Ottawa is an amalgam of smaller
municipalities so is slowly changing street names to avoid
duplicates.  I seem to recall an employee in the street
naming bit is adjusting street names in OSM.  So please do
not change a street name to match a photo that might have
been taken some time ago.

In Quebec I understand province wide the standard for names
on maps is "Rue xyz" in Ontario it is left to the
municipality whether to capitalise the first letter or not
so you need to know the rules for each municipality.

Have fun

Cheerio John

On 29 Sep 2017 4:20 pm, "john whelan" > wrote:

Ottawa is one of the few places that has bilingual
street names.

On the same street I've seen just the name, name street
and rue name street signs.

In Ottawa the majority are Slater street in name then
rue Slater in name:french.

Anything else means it is difficult to search for the
name electronically.  "rue Slater Street"  is not easy
to enter.

Note for Ottawa it is rue Slater not Rue Slater.  Other
places such as Quebec may have different rules.

Cheerio John
.

On 29 Sep 2017 4:10 pm, 

Re: [OSM-talk] A thought on bot edits

[Lester Caine]

On 02/10/17 15:13, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> Of course considering the big volume of editing activity that would
> likely take place in the 'bot:' namespace in that scenario it might be
> a good idea to put those tags into a separate database for efficiency
> reasons.
> 
> yes, keeping a lot of additional tags for a huge amount of objects in
> the main db would still be a burden on everyone working with the planet
> file or geographic extracts, so it seems logical to externalize the
> bot-tags. But how would you link one db to the other? If people don't
> see those tags (or only by request), their edits will erode the
> information in this external db (e.g. by splitting ways, deleting and
> redrawing parts, combining ways, etc.). What about versions, will there
> be different versions of the same object in the main db and this bot db?
> Is this a serious suggestion or just another way of saying there are too
> many automated activities going on?

There are many reasons for wanting unique id's IN OSM that can be used
to cross reference external databases. Add to your list archiving
historic versions of the objects, something that should be automated
into OHM. So there should be serious consideration of the idea but what
section of tags should be moved to a separate database?

There is a good case for using wikidata to provide a higher level of
hierarchy such as street names, and all of the place data that overlays
that, so OSM only needs to use the wikidata namespace for all of that
material. I don't think that the idea of 'bot' space actually fits into
that model as it is the unique ID that is fixed and 'bot' tags either
need to be accessible in 'mapping' space, or remain in the secondary
data space.

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[john whelan]

> destination:street

I'm confused by this.  According to taginfo there are only 11,000 entries
and there is no wiki page.

We have highway=residential, name=xyz street, name:fr=rue xyz

I assume name here is what you mean.

Ottawa is not officially bilingual, it is officially English but services
are offered in French.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names

also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:Ontario:Ottawa and look for
bilingual street names.

Different parts of Canada have different rules according to who is the
authority for naming streets or setting the rules for naming streets.

Cheerio John



On 2 October 2017 at 10:10, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> Thank you for all the responses. It seems that using destination:street is
> expected to have the name in the local official language. If the sign is
> bilingual, I propose then to add the other name as destination:street:en or
> destination:street:fr, respectively. This is not yet a documented tag, but
> I see no other sensible way to do it and it seems to me that it would be a
> logical extension, considering we already have name:[language ISO code]
> tags in wide use.
>
> Does this sound agreeable?
>
> Thanks
> Martijn
>
> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Pierre Béland  wrote:
>
>> Les différentes provinces ou états ont souvent un organisme responsable
>> de faire l'inventaire des noms officiels. Au Québec,  c'est la Commission
>> de toponymie qui est responsable.
>> http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.ca/ct/accueil.aspx
>>
>> Sur leur site, on retrouve des listes de noms et les règles qui
>> s'appliquent pour les noms au Québec.
>> Pour les règles, voir http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.c
>> a/ct/normes-procedures/regles-ecriture/
>>
>> Les noms affichés sur Geobase.ca correspondent souvent à ces règles
>> puisque les données de Ressources naturelles Canada sont fournies par les
>> provinces. Par contre, il peut y avoir un certain retard lors de
>> modifications de noms. Dans la section Fournisseurs d'image de JOSM, on
>> retrouve un lien vers la couche RRN de Geobase. Les données sont aussi
>> disponibles par province en shapefile.
>> http://ouvert.canada.ca/data/fr/dataset/3d282116-e556-400c-9
>> 306-ca1a3cada77f
>>
>> cordialement
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>>
>> --
>> *De :* john whelan 
>> *À :* Martijn van Exel 
>> *Cc :* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
>> *Envoyé le :* vendredi 29 Septembre 2017 16h52
>> *Objet :* Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs
>>
>> Whilst I think about it Ottawa is an amalgam of smaller municipalities so
>> is slowly changing street names to avoid duplicates.  I seem to recall an
>> employee in the street naming bit is adjusting street names in OSM.  So
>> please do not change a street name to match a photo that might have been
>> taken some time ago.
>>
>> In Quebec I understand province wide the standard for names on maps is
>> "Rue xyz" in Ontario it is left to the municipality whether to capitalise
>> the first letter or not so you need to know the rules for each municipality.
>>
>> Have fun
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> On 29 Sep 2017 4:20 pm, "john whelan"  wrote:
>>
>> Ottawa is one of the few places that has bilingual street names.
>>
>> On the same street I've seen just the name, name street and rue name
>> street signs.
>>
>> In Ottawa the majority are Slater street in name then rue Slater in
>> name:french.
>>
>> Anything else means it is difficult to search for the name
>> electronically.  "rue Slater Street"  is not easy to enter.
>>
>> Note for Ottawa it is rue Slater not Rue Slater.  Other places such as
>> Quebec may have different rules.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>> .
>>
>> On 29 Sep 2017 4:10 pm, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> How do you map bilingual signposts? Ones that say for example 'Rue Regent
>> St'?
>> My thought would be destination:street=[name in primary language for the
>> province] and destination:street:en / destination:street:fr for the name in
>> the other language. But I've also seen just 'destination:street:Rue Regent
>> St'.
>>
>> My team would like to help make this consistent if you're up for that,
>> but what should be the convention? From a machine parsing perspective,
>> separating out the languages in separate tags is preferable.
>>
>> We have a ticket for this question as well, https://github.com/Telen
>> avMapping/mapping-projects/ issues/27
>> 
>>
>> Thanks / Merci
>> Martijn
>>
>> __ _
>> Talk-ca mailing list
>> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.or g/listinfo/talk-ca
>> 
>>
>> ___
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>> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
>> 

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rappel Opération libre les 07 et 08 octobre prochain à Peillac-Les Fougerêts

[Philippe Verdy]

Il aurait fallu ne pas l'oublier dans le calendrier du wiki OSM. Je viens
de le mettre (avec un lien sur la page principale de l'organisation, les
autres liens pour s'inscrire etc. sont accessibles depuis celle-là qui
présente l'ensemble

Le 2 octobre 2017 à 15:39, Louis-Julien de la Bouëre 
a écrit :

>
> *Rappel : la première Opération Libre en Bretagne c’est ce week-end !*
>
> *Les 07 et 08 octobre rendez-vous à Peillac-Les Fougerêts dans le
> Morbihan.*
>
>
> *Voici tous les éléments pour nous rejoindre :*
>
> * - le lien pour s’inscrire
> (ce n'est pas
> obligatoire mais plus facile pour calculer les repas et couchages)*
>  - La carte et liste
>  des
> participants
>
>  - le Wiki du Pays de Redon 
>  - les infos d’organisation générale
> 
>  - Le pad du pré-programme
>  (n’hésitez
> pas à amender)
>   - Pour organiser le co-voiturage
> 
>
>   - Pour organiser votre venue en train
> 
>
> Nous serons heureux de vous voir ou revoir dans ces belles communes…
>
> *Contactez nous si besoin : *
>  - Renseignements et coordination générale localement : Marie-Jo Menozzi
> (Conseil de développement du Pays) marie-jo.meno...@orange.fr
>  - Renseignements Coordination/communication des équipes de
> contributeurs-trices : Louis-Julien de la Bouëre Tiriad
> ljbou...@tiriad.org (06 58 79 80 56 en cas de nécessité)
>
>
> *A très bientôt ! *
>
> --
> Louis-Julien de la Bouëre
> Association tiriadljbou...@tiriad.orgwww.tiriad.org
> Portable : 06 58 79 80 56
> Twitter : @assotiriad
> Skype : tiloul29
> OpenStreetMap : http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Ljbouere
> Mapillary : https://www.mapillary.com/app/user/ljbouere
>
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] A thought on bot edits

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-10-02 15:59 GMT+02:00 Christoph Hormann :

>
>
>
> Of course considering the big volume of editing activity that would
> likely take place in the 'bot:' namespace in that scenario it might be
> a good idea to put those tags into a separate database for efficiency
> reasons.
>


yes, keeping a lot of additional tags for a huge amount of objects in the
main db would still be a burden on everyone working with the planet file or
geographic extracts, so it seems logical to externalize the bot-tags. But
how would you link one db to the other? If people don't see those tags (or
only by request), their edits will erode the information in this external
db (e.g. by splitting ways, deleting and redrawing parts, combining ways,
etc.). What about versions, will there be different versions of the same
object in the main db and this bot db? Is this a serious suggestion or just
another way of saying there are too many automated activities going on?

Cheers,
Martin
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[Talk-at] Antw: OpenStreetMap langsamer als früher?

[Bernhard Holub]

Bei mir lädt osm.org und JOSM wie immer sehr flott!

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Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs

[Martijn van Exel]

Thank you for all the responses. It seems that using destination:street is
expected to have the name in the local official language. If the sign is
bilingual, I propose then to add the other name as destination:street:en or
destination:street:fr, respectively. This is not yet a documented tag, but
I see no other sensible way to do it and it seems to me that it would be a
logical extension, considering we already have name:[language ISO code]
tags in wide use.

Does this sound agreeable?

Thanks
Martijn

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Pierre Béland  wrote:

> Les différentes provinces ou états ont souvent un organisme responsable de
> faire l'inventaire des noms officiels. Au Québec,  c'est la Commission de
> toponymie qui est responsable.
> http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.ca/ct/accueil.aspx
>
> Sur leur site, on retrouve des listes de noms et les règles qui
> s'appliquent pour les noms au Québec.
> Pour les règles, voir http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.
> ca/ct/normes-procedures/regles-ecriture/
>
> Les noms affichés sur Geobase.ca correspondent souvent à ces règles
> puisque les données de Ressources naturelles Canada sont fournies par les
> provinces. Par contre, il peut y avoir un certain retard lors de
> modifications de noms. Dans la section Fournisseurs d'image de JOSM, on
> retrouve un lien vers la couche RRN de Geobase. Les données sont aussi
> disponibles par province en shapefile.
> http://ouvert.canada.ca/data/fr/dataset/3d282116-e556-400c-
> 9306-ca1a3cada77f
>
> cordialement
>
> Pierre
>
>
> --
> *De :* john whelan 
> *À :* Martijn van Exel 
> *Cc :* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap 
> *Envoyé le :* vendredi 29 Septembre 2017 16h52
> *Objet :* Re: [Talk-ca] Mapping of bilingual destination signs
>
> Whilst I think about it Ottawa is an amalgam of smaller municipalities so
> is slowly changing street names to avoid duplicates.  I seem to recall an
> employee in the street naming bit is adjusting street names in OSM.  So
> please do not change a street name to match a photo that might have been
> taken some time ago.
>
> In Quebec I understand province wide the standard for names on maps is
> "Rue xyz" in Ontario it is left to the municipality whether to capitalise
> the first letter or not so you need to know the rules for each municipality.
>
> Have fun
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 29 Sep 2017 4:20 pm, "john whelan"  wrote:
>
> Ottawa is one of the few places that has bilingual street names.
>
> On the same street I've seen just the name, name street and rue name
> street signs.
>
> In Ottawa the majority are Slater street in name then rue Slater in
> name:french.
>
> Anything else means it is difficult to search for the name electronically.
>  "rue Slater Street"  is not easy to enter.
>
> Note for Ottawa it is rue Slater not Rue Slater.  Other places such as
> Quebec may have different rules.
>
> Cheerio John
> .
>
> On 29 Sep 2017 4:10 pm, "Martijn van Exel"  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> How do you map bilingual signposts? Ones that say for example 'Rue Regent
> St'?
> My thought would be destination:street=[name in primary language for the
> province] and destination:street:en / destination:street:fr for the name in
> the other language. But I've also seen just 'destination:street:Rue Regent
> St'.
>
> My team would like to help make this consistent if you're up for that, but
> what should be the convention? From a machine parsing perspective,
> separating out the languages in separate tags is preferable.
>
> We have a ticket for this question as well, https://github.com/Telen
> avMapping/mapping-projects/ issues/27
> 
>
> Thanks / Merci
> Martijn
>
> __ _
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.or g/listinfo/talk-ca
> 
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Utilisation du tag 'name' avec les langues régionales

[orhygine]

Salut à tous,
Concernant les champs name et les langues régionales, y'a-t-il un consensus
sur la manière de cartographier suite à cette discussion ?
Je viens de faire un petit tour sur osmose et cela clignote pas mal :
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/?lat=43.29320031385285=-1.2215423583984377=10


Le 13 septembre 2017 à 11:22, Vladimir Vyskocil  a écrit :

> Bonjour,
>
> Suite aux actions de certaines communautés régionales comme par exemple
> Toulouse qui est devenu Tolosa/Toulouse par ce qu’un fervent adepte de
> l’occitan l'à décidé un jour… J’ai regardé et commencé à corriger les
> erreurs rapportées par Osmose sur l’utilisations des tags name et name:fr,
> qui doivent être identiques pour la France dans la règle correspondante…
> Mais je commence à m’attirer les foudres de certains au pays basque et je
> voulais vous faire part de ma dernière réponse. J’ai répondu avec mes
> connaissances du projet mais je peux me tromper et cela a pu évoluer ces
> derniers temps ? Qu’en pensez vous ?
>
> Bonjour,
>
> On va continuer en français : Il y a plusieurs points dans votre message
> auxquels je voudrais répondre :
>
> - OpenStreetMap est une base cartographique et pas une carte, il y a
> autant de rendu possible que l'on désire, celui du site openstreetmap.org
> en est un et il est international essentiellement destiné aux contributeurs
> internationaux du projet. Il existe des rendus plus spécialisés par exemple
> sur openstreetmap.fr qui se focalise sur la communauté française ou un
> site qui prend en compte les noms régionaux de Bretagne et qui est géré par
> la communauté bzh.
>
> - Les règles sur l'utilisation des tags des objets de la base est établie
> plus ou moins par consensus par la communauté internationale, plus
> particulièrement pour les tags name, name:xxx, et autres... pour le tag
> name la règle établie est qu'il contient le nom dans la langue ou les
> langues officielles du pays correspondant, par exemple en Belgique c'est le
> français et le flamand et les valeurs du tag sont nom_dans_la_langue1 / (ou
> -, ...) nom_dans_la_langue2. En france il n'y a qu'une seule langue
> officielle et c'est le français et des langues régionales comme le basque,
> l'occitan, le breton, le niçois par chez moi,…
>
> - Il y a de plus en plus d'anarchie dans l'utilisation du tags "name" en
> France, on commence a voir des choses comme Tolosa/Toulouse parce que
> quelqu'un dans la communauté occitane a décidé que cela lui plaisait mieux
> comme ça ou par revendication... Idem pour la communauté basque, que je
> respecte par ailleurs (et c'est un très beau pays que j'aime beaucoup,
> autant coté français qu'espagnol).
>
> - D'ailleurs vous parlez de villages avec une signalisation bi-linguale ou
> je vous le concède le tag name peut recevoir les noms dans les deux langues
> (en se mettant d'accord sur le séparateur, l'ordre,... pour que cela soit
> uniforme ce qui n'est pas le cas actuellement), mais pour des villes comme
> Bayonne, Biarritz,... je ne suis pas d'accord car ce n'est pas jusqu’à
> preuve du contraire ce que l'on voit sur le terrain (je parle de panneaux
> officiels)
>
>  - En ce qui concerne l'outil Osmose, il compile un grand nombre de règles
> acceptées par au moins la communauté française et parcours la base pour
> trouver les erreurs et permettre de les corriger, c'est le reflet des
> règles en vigueur. S'il est légitime d'en changer certaines, il est
> nécessaire d'entamer le discours pour obtenir un consensus avec la
> communauté FR, le mieux est d'en discuter sur la liste OSM française (
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr) - Pour la promotion de
> la langue basque vous pouvez à l'instar d'autres communautés régionales
> comme les bretons par exemple monter un site qui affichera correctement la
> carte avec les options que vous aurez choisi, par exemple une combinaison
> des tags name:eu et name:fr ou seulement name:eu ou au choix,...
>
> Cordialement, Vladimir (français d'adoption)
>
> Hi Vlad,
>
> I have followed the discussion on this changeset
> . Can you explain what
> exactly is the problem ? Following your link I find a "Default and local
> language name not the same" issues ... (Albeit, I don't understand why this
> should be an issue, since as far as I understand it, different tags are
> meant to reference different things...) We have bilingual usage here in
> north basque country, as you enter all our villages you will find a
> bilingual (french - basque) signalisation. So I don't understand why we
> could not put both basque and french name in the "name=*" tag and have
> each language separated in their respective tag, i.e. "name:fr=*" and
> "name:eu=*" wich is what I did. So just because Osmose don't like it, seems
> not a raisonnable argument for me. Looking to read more from you,
>
> regards
>
>
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> 

[Talk-at] OpenStreetMap langsamer als früher?

[Christian Aigner]

Kommt es nur mir so vor, oder ist die OpenStreetMap langsamer geworden?

Egal, ob im Josm, auf osm.org oder z.B. project-gc.com - das Laden einer
ganzen Bildschirmseite (1920x1200) der Standard-OSM (Mapnik) dauert
ewig. Manchmal bleiben sogar einige ungeladene Kacheln übrig.

OSM German Style funktioniert aber z.B. ohne Verzögerung.

Ist das nur bei mir so, oder hat das noch jemand bemerkt?

LG,
Christian


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[OSM-talk-fr] Rappel Opération libre les 07 et 08 octobre prochain à Peillac-Les Fougerêts

[Louis-Julien de la Bouëre]

*Rappel : la première Opération Libre en Bretagne c’est ce week-end !*

*Les 07 et 08 octobre rendez-vous à Peillac-Les Fougerêts dans le Morbihan.*


*Voici tous les éléments pour nous rejoindre :*

* -le lien pour s’inscrire 
(ce n'est pas 
obligatoire mais plus facile pour calculer les repas et couchages)*
 - La carte et liste 
 des participants


 - le Wiki du Pays de Redon 
 - les infos d’organisation générale 

 - Le pad du pré-programme 
 
(n’hésitez pas à amender)


  - Pour organiser le co-voiturage 



  - Pour organiser votre venue en train 



Nous serons heureux de vous voir ou revoir dans ces belles communes…

*Contactez nous si besoin : *
 - Renseignements et coordination générale localement : Marie-Jo 
Menozzi (Conseil de développement du Pays) marie-jo.meno...@orange.fr
 - Renseignements Coordination/communication des équipes de 
contributeurs-trices : Louis-Julien de la Bouëre Tiriad 
ljbou...@tiriad.org (06 58 79 80 56 en cas de nécessité)


*A très bientôt !
*


--
Louis-Julien de la Bouëre
Association Tiriad
ljbou...@tiriad.org
www.tiriad.org
Portable : 06 58 79 80 56
Twitter : @assotiriad
Skype : tiloul29
OpenStreetMap :http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Ljbouere
Mapillary :https://www.mapillary.com/app/user/ljbouere

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Re: [Talk-it] Come mappare le piazze

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 2. Oct 2017, at 14:53, mbranco  wrote:
> 
> Capisco i dubbi di chi storce il naso con place=square, ma proposte
> alternative non ne ho sentite
> (a dicembre 2016 ne avevamo globalmente 1200 con questo tag, oggi 5924, ma
> solo in italia ne abbiamo 30.000, di piazze...)


io i dubbi non li capisco. Invito tutti ad usare il tag.

Ciao, Martin 

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Re: [Talk-it] Come mappare le piazze

[mbranco]

In effetti continuo a pensare che sia una grave lacuna di OSM, che non si
possano estrarre con una query specifica tutte le piazze in una determinata
area geografica.
Per non ripetere gli stessi ragionamenti, ne avevamo parlato qui [1] e qui
[2], e anche nella lista internazionale [3].

Capisco i dubbi di chi storce il naso con place=square, ma proposte
alternative non ne ho sentite
(a dicembre 2016 ne avevamo globalmente 1200 con questo tag, oggi 5924, ma
solo in italia ne abbiamo 30.000, di piazze...)

Ciao,
Marco

[1] http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Le-piazze-td5887345.html
[2] http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Novita-sulle-piazze-td5888485.html
[3]
http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Square-Place-Platz-Piazza-Plaza-td5888469.html



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Re: [OSM-talk] Fixing wiki* -> brand:wiki*

[Ilya Zverev]

Exactly. OSM uses the reversed notation:

ref:velobike is a ref for velobike, not velobike for ref.
source:geometry is a source for geometry, not geometry for source.

Wikipedia for brand should also be wikipedia:brand. This way all wikipedia 
links are grouped.

Ilya

> Because it is wikipedia tag for brand, not brand for wikipedia. ("Wikipedia" 
> property of "brand") Like name:en is "English" property of "name", not "name" 
> property of "English". 02.10.2017 11:41, Ilya Zverev пишет: > Hi folks, 
> >
> > One question: why brand:wikipedia and not wikipedia:brand? 
> >
> > Should we now use brand:ref, en:name, maxspeed:source instead of the 
> > regular order? 
> >
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/52002801
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/52529386
> > etc.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Building an Isochronous (SNCB / NMBS) map ?

[Ben Abelshausen]

HI Matthieu,

We also built something similar, not actual isochrones but close:

http://heatmap.anyways.eu/

(just click on any location on the map)

Cheers,

Ben

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Pieter Colpaert 
wrote:

> Hi Matthieu,
>
> I did something like this in the past: http://linkedconnections.githu
> b.io/demo/ - It’s not perfect but does is infinitely extensible.
>
> There are other open-source projects, such as Open Trip Planner analytics,
> that can give you this functionality out of the box. If you do not want to
> install all of this yourself, you can also use Navitia:
> https://www.navitia.io/features#isochrons
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Pieter
>
>
>
> On 02-10-17 11:09, Matthieu Gaillet wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I’d like to build isochronous maps for the SNCB/NMBS network in Belgium.
>> The idea is getting a map visually showing the time needed to go to major
>> cities when departing from an arbitrary starting city.
>>
>> There are some public APIs to get the raw timing data itself, but my
>> experience in developing such an app is close to zero. Anybody interested
>> by such project and feeling to collaborate ? Any pointers, examples ? The
>> closest thing I found is that app : http://www.commutometer.com/is
>> okron/37.774929,-122.419416
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Matthieu
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>
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Re: [Talk-it] Come mappare le piazze

[Andrea Albani]

Il giorno 2 ottobre 2017 12:42, Martin Koppenhoefer 
ha scritto:

> Non esiste alcun tipo di eredità da un oggetto place su un oggetto
> highway, a prescindere che questo sia un poligono o un way lineare.
>

Si, hai ragione. In effetti è quello che già faccio con le porzioni di
highway delimitate dal poligono place=square, quindi a logica va fatto
anche per l'area pedonale.
A questo punto, pensando al routing, l'area pedonale deve essere connessa
con una way "pedonale" ad una delle way transitanti per la piazza.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging "Shared space" roads (Preston City Centre)

[Adam Snape]

The photo of Exhibition Rd on Wikipedia makes it look deserted. I guess it
is sensible to photograph a new road layout at a quiet time.  I actually
walked along it not so long ago when visiting a museum and it certainly
seemed to still be used by quite a lot of motor traffic. Not that I think
traffic volume should necessarily determine tagging, but examples such as
this, the primary roads in Poynton, anda couple of thoroughfares in
Preston, do rather weaken the comparison to Home Zones or woonerven. There
traffic would typically be very light, very slow and almost entirely for
access. The more I look at the above examples, the more I am convinced that
the presence of shared use design doesn't make these thoroughfares
comparable to living_streets

Adam

On 2 October 2017 at 08:56, Paul Berry  wrote:

> One of the most significant shared space street schemes in the country (at
> least, the one that got the most publicity) is Exhibition Road. Here's part
> of it: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34401602 and it's mapped as
> living street even though it is not residential.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhibition_Road
>
> Should it be changed also?
>
> Regards,
> *Paul*
>
> On 1 October 2017 at 23:17, Colin Smale  wrote:
>
>> And here's a road that wants to be a shared space but isn't there yet...
>>
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/NHnieuws/videos/1627424217288914/
>>
>> The goal of reducing the traffic speed has been achieved, apparently.
>>
>>
>> On 2017-10-01 20:16, Richard Mann wrote:
>>
>> The classic shared space scheme in Haren:
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/53.17312/6.60310
>>
>> has no tags that I can see.
>>
>> I'd go for something like shared_space=yes for the moment. It's a
>> "special" type of traffic calming.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Colin Smale 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just like in the UK, the councils here make it up as they go along; a
>>> "shared space" has no special legal status, unlike a "woonerf".
>>>
>>> A general principle which has proved its worth is that to make things
>>> safer, you remove the safety features. Like white lines and kerbs. Everyone
>>> moans a bit, but in the mean time you slow down and watch out just that
>>> little bit more... Hence shared spaces, an apparent free-for-all that works
>>> well.
>>>
>>> On 2017-10-01 18:57, Andy Townsend wrote:
>>>
>>> Not an answer, but a suggestion where there might be a bit more info...
>>>
>>> The Netherlands forum https://forum.openstreetmap.or
>>> g/viewforum.php?id=12 might be worth a read, since the shared space
>>> concept was pioneered there; https://forum.openstreetmap.or
>>> g/viewtopic.php?id=54843 is directly about "shared_space" but a search
>>> for "woonerf" (aka "home zone") gets a whole bunch more hits.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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Re: [Talk-it] Linux Day e OpenStreetMap a Roma

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-10-02 12:47 GMT+02:00 Maurizio Napolitano :

> > Io penserei ad un intervento più generale su OSM che tocchi anche il tema
> > privacy e riservatezza.
>
> tema molto interessante visto che, molto spesso, una PA non raccoglie
> (o meglio dire non pubblica) alcune informazioni mappabili.
> Giusto per qualche spunto:
> - piscine private (e in osm ne abbiamo tante)
> - nomi sui campanelli degli ingressi di casa (di questo mi sembra che
> in OSM non ce ne stiano)
> - percorsi privati/recintati
> - ...
>
> Inoltre immagino che abbiate visto che su diversi tool di Pascal Neis
> ora è richiesta l'autenticazione con un utente osm.
> Sul fronte di individuare l'attività di lavoro di un mapper era nata
> un bella discussione in merito al tema privacy.
>
>


riferito al cosa viene mappato: c'erano casi che mappatori avevano copiato
la targa associata ad un singolo parcheggio (posto macchina privato).
In generale, contrario alle persone, gli esercizi commerciali non godano di
"privacy", credo nemmeno in Italia? Privacy riguarda sempre dati
riconducibili ad una persona (viva, i morti nemmeno hanno diritto di
privacy).

In altri casi la gente (mappatori) si è preoccupato cosa si poteva rilevare
dai changesets/metadati:
- nome del mappatore (per esempio nickname = real name oppure nickname
uguale ad nickname in altri servizi come Facebook ecc.)
- dove si mappa
- quando si mappa (di giorno durante la settimana: o paid mapper, o
disoccupato), quando si alza una persona la mattina, quando va al letto,
quanto tempo libero a disposizione, ecc.
- cosa si mappa

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Linux Day e OpenStreetMap a Roma

[Alessandro]

Il 02/10/2017 12:47, Maurizio Napolitano ha scritto:

Io penserei ad un intervento più generale su OSM che tocchi anche il tema
privacy e riservatezza.


tema molto interessante visto che, molto spesso, una PA non raccoglie
(o meglio dire non pubblica) alcune informazioni mappabili.
Giusto per qualche spunto:
- piscine private (e in osm ne abbiamo tante)
- nomi sui campanelli degli ingressi di casa (di questo mi sembra che
in OSM non ce ne stiano)
- percorsi privati/recintati
- ...

Inoltre immagino che abbiate visto che su diversi tool di Pascal Neis
ora è richiesta l'autenticazione con un utente osm.
Sul fronte di individuare l'attività di lavoro di un mapper era nata
un bella discussione in merito al tema privacy.

___



E giusto una decina di giorni fa era stata richiesta la rimozione di una 
strada su OSM che era già stata cancellata da Google map. Dopo un pò di 
ricerche e di mail abbiamo capito che la strada in questione (cercate 
"Asinovia dei Sibillini") non era da rimuovere.


Alessandro

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] les dates de terrain, de test fonctionnel, d'import, de source

[Violaine Doutreleau]

Hello,

@Marc, justement je pointais l'attention sur 'il ne faut pas mixer', on 
est donc daccord J


Sinon je te rejoins, on pourrait séparer les éléments visibles 
basiquement (sans recherche approfondie) et les inclure par défaut dans 
le survey:date. Pour les éléments plus spécifiques/+ approfondis,  
ajouter un :date à la fin de la clé. (type capacity:bed, le nombre de 
staffs etc, ds le cadre des infrastructures de santés, informations 
qu'un contributeur de lamba de passage dans la région ne va pas 
forcément aller chercher). Je te rejoins aussi sur la difficulté 
d'interprétation du check_date, qui pourrait se recouper avec le 
source:date; ou /clé/:date, ou on ne sait pas ce qui a été vérifié, comment.


@Christian, merci!

A +

Violaine

Le 12/09/2017 à 14:01, marc marc a écrit :

@tous : il ne manque aucun besoin avec ces 3 type survey <> fonctionnel
<> source externe ?

@Christian l'outil est prometteur.
C'est un bon exemple d'interface simple même si quelques détails
serraient utile (valider une porte d'entrée, pas sur de l'utilité).
Je vais e tester un peu plus pour proposer des améliorations.

@Violaine
que veux-tu dire par mixer ? ce serrait au contraire plus clair si on
fait 3 catégories bien distincte comparé par exemple au tag check_date
où il est impossible de savoir qu'est-ce qui a été précisément vérifié
(la position, l’existence, le fonctionnel)
Exemple fictif : les bornes incendies d'une commune
Lors de l'import on précise sur le changeset source=lacommune
source:date=2015/01/01
Si quelqu'un voit la borne sur le terrain et veux préciser la date,
il peux rajouter survey:date=2017/09/12 (sinon on suppose que c'est
une date proche de la modif, pas besoin de raffiner cela à l’extrême)
Si un technicien teste la borne comme fonctionnelle, on peux encoder
cette information avec operational_status=operating
operational_status:date=2017/09/12

Pour l'étendue de la vérification, c'est justement le reproche que je
fais à check_date. on ne sait pas si cela signifie que l'objet a été
vu sur le terrain, ou si l'objet a été comparé avec une liste opendata
ou s'il s'agit d'un test fonctionnel.
Je pense aussi que cela n'a de sens que sur des objets assez précis
que pour déduire que la vérification est complète.
On peux dire qu'on a vu un arrêt de bus ou testé une borne.
Prétendre la même chose sur un hôpital me semble délicat.
Etait-ce son existence ? son nom ? tout ces tags ?
Rien n’empêche de préciser capacity:bed:date par exemple
Peut-être faudrait-il préciser qu'un survey:date par exemple concerne
tous les tags d'un objet. mais quid des infos provenant d'un import mais
qui sont invérifiable sur le terrain (par exemple le diamètre du tuyau
d'alimentation d'une borne lorsque l'info n'est pas sur la plaque) ?
Je n'ai pas de solution pour améliorer le sens.
Dupliquer tout les tags avec une date me semble impossible en pratique
vu la difficulté qu'il y a avec des schémas beaucoup plus simple.

Le 11. 09. 17 à 21:21, Christian Quest a écrit :

La webapp geocropping rend ce process de mise à jour d'une date de
contrôle sur terrain très simple et pas technique du tout.

A voir ici: https://geocropping.xsalto.com/

Le 11 septembre 2017 à 18:33, Violaine Doutreleau a écrit :

 Bonjour Marc,

 Pour moi la difficulté c'est qu'il ne faudrait pas mixer la source
 d'une information (je suis ok pour  ajouter une info de date en
 fonction de la source de données), par le check_date ou
 operational_status:date, qui relève plutôt de la validation de
 données. J'entends : la donnée est déjà créée, je repasse x jours
 après sa création pour dire qu'elle est toujours valide. Healthsites
 prévoit de faire ça sur la thématique santé... Par contre j'aime
 beaucoup l'idée car on pourrait imaginer de la demande de validation
 de données si le check_date est trop éloigné de la date du jour aux
 utilisateurs de gps... Et ça pourrait donner un sacré coup de pouce ...

 Par contre j'ai le sentiment que ce n'est pas vraiment la place de
 la validation, mais d'une base extérieure? Dailleurs ça risque
 d'être trop tech pour des utilisateurs lambdas d'OSM, et pourtant
 des informations faciles à donner par n'importe qui.

 Sinon, une autre difficulté que je trouve c'est qu'il faudrait quasi
 autant de check_date, que de tags, ou alors définir les éléments que
 l'on souhaite vérifier. Non? Par exemple pour les centre de santés,
 c'est pas évident de tout contrôler d'un coup si on est un
 utilisateur lambda  (pas aussi simple de donner le nombre de staffs
 par exemple)

 Juste mes réflexions...

 A bientôt,

 V


 Le 06/09/2017 à 00:16, marc marc a écrit :

 Suite à une discussion à propos des dates, j'ai été faire un tour
 sur le wiki et taginfo. La problème était simple mais comme souvent
 il y a une grande diversité de mise en place.

 Il y a, si j'ai oublié personne, 3 grand besoins :

 - la date où un objet 

Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Christoph Hormann]

On Monday 02 October 2017, Stefan Keller wrote:
> > I would like to auto-add all the corresponding wikidata based on
> > wikipedia, for all remaining objects, using  JOSM's "Fetch Wikidata
> > IDs".
>
> Pls. correct me if I'm missing something here. Though "auto-add" is
> perhaps not the best notion, it's still a human in control of JOSM.
> To me, OSM really should remain a welcoming, inclusive do-ocracy.
> So, let's look forward.

For clarification - since this is often a point of misunderstandings - 
if an edit is a mechanical edit or import does not depends on the tools 
used, it depends on if the modifications are made individually feature 
by feature based on individual, informed assessment of the local 
situation or if it is made in bulk without each feature being evaluated 
individually - and doing this by clicking a button a hundred times 
instead of scripting it of course does not qualify as manual 
evaluation.

Manual evaluation would of course be pointless if the data is not 
verifiable which is why so much discussion on the matter evolved about 
the problem of verifiability.  If the data is not verifiable you should 
neither add it manually nor through automated edits.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-it] Come mappare le piazze

[Max1234Ita]

In effetti non sono del tutto convinto sulla "pedonalità a prescindere" di
tutte le piazze. 
Non so se sia pertinente, ma mi viene da pensare a Piazzale Loreto, a
Milano... (http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/45.48621/9.21689) 


Max




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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Stefan Keller]

Hi Yuri and all

Just my 2 cents:

I think the reasoning of Lester makes sense: be careful about
semi-automatic adding wikidata tags to any OSM object with a Wikipedia
tag.

Applied to a subset of OSM this already took place and now there are
some objects remaining, which will need to be curated by hand.
Specifically we're speaking about 750 remaining OSM objects with wrong
Wikidata tags (disambig. instead of "real" resources).
And that's a feasible number to be done by hand, isn't it?

Just for the ground truth following input:
* Wikipedia tags are used in several services, apps and tools, like
Nominatim(!), OSMNames.org, historic.places, etc..
* Wikidata tags are used by Mapbox, OpenMapTiles, Mapzen(?), etc.

So both tags have already their place.

In this thread it's Yuri just asked this initially:
> I would like to auto-add all the corresponding wikidata based on wikipedia,
> for all remaining objects, using  JOSM's "Fetch Wikidata IDs".

Pls. correct me if I'm missing something here. Though "auto-add" is
perhaps not the best notion, it's still a human in control of JOSM.
To me, OSM really should remain a welcoming, inclusive do-ocracy.
So, let's look forward.

:Stefan

P.S. To anybody eager to debate, IMHO the following OSM Wiki pages
need some care, and this is something really useful to discuss and
update:
* https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia
* https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikidata


2017-10-02 10:22 GMT+02:00 Lester Caine :
> On 19/09/17 21:03, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>> There is now a relatively small number of OSM nodes and relations
>> remaining, that have wikipedia, but do not have wikidata tags. iD editor
>> already automatically adds wikidata to all new edits, so finishing up
>> the rest automatically seems like a good thing to do, as that will allow
>> many new quality control queries. I would like to auto-add all the
>> corresponding wikidata based on wikipedia, for all remaining objects,
>> using  JOSM's "Fetch Wikidata IDs".
>
> Yuri
> I'm going to wind things back in a bit here as the discussion seems to
> be widely disjointed.
>
> I think there needs to be a formal discussion as to just what secondary
> data sources are preferred when adding additonal data to OSM objects.
> Wikipedia is a useful secondary source for a vast range of material, but
> some objects in OSM will not be 'notable' enough for wikipedia to allow
> an article to exist, so an alternative mechanism is needed for those
> objects. wikidata may well be a suitable alternative, but the simple
> fact that a more detailed article for a wikidata object by not be
> accepted makes wikidata something of a problem as well. While
> wikipedia/wikidata provide a sort of standard framework for additional
> data, the primary link from an OSM object should perhaps be to websites
> specific to the object rather than the filtered wikipedia view of the
> world?
>
> Some of the tangential debate has been re ADDING links to OSM object
> that have not yet been tagged with something suitable, and this is where
> cross matching these items depends on the information already available
> on in the OSM tags. I have still to be convinced that wikidata is
> 'independent' enough to be a reliable source of cross-reference links,
> especially where other reference tags are already used. UK Schools we
> have added the reference from the schools database. I've not looked to
> see if a wikidata 'view' of that data is available, but I would not look
> to add wikidata id's in addition to the school id's - BUT the wikipedia
> reference has been added where the schools are notable enough to warrant
> an article. I WOULD only look to tidying these objects to ADD the
> wikidata id if one was also checking that all three elements are
> correct, rather than simply automatically adding them. Whilst I was
> processing that data during the UK group push on it there were often a
> lot of corrections made to get the right 'set' of data on a school
> object. While only a small number of objects were actually wrong, that
> is enough to justify needing a manual cross check of some sort.
>
> --
> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> -
> Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
> L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
> EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
> Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
> Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Linux Day e OpenStreetMap a Roma

[Maurizio Napolitano]

> Io penserei ad un intervento più generale su OSM che tocchi anche il tema
> privacy e riservatezza.

tema molto interessante visto che, molto spesso, una PA non raccoglie
(o meglio dire non pubblica) alcune informazioni mappabili.
Giusto per qualche spunto:
- piscine private (e in osm ne abbiamo tante)
- nomi sui campanelli degli ingressi di casa (di questo mi sembra che
in OSM non ce ne stiano)
- percorsi privati/recintati
- ...

Inoltre immagino che abbiate visto che su diversi tool di Pascal Neis
ora è richiesta l'autenticazione con un utente osm.
Sul fronte di individuare l'attività di lavoro di un mapper era nata
un bella discussione in merito al tema privacy.

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Re: [Talk-it] Come mappare le piazze

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-10-02 12:34 GMT+02:00 Andrea Albani :

> Nella mia idea place=square + name=* identifica tutta l'area che
> "toponomasticamente" si chiama in un certo modo.
>


+1, è proprio come place è definito


Se una porzione della piazza è pedonale disegnerei un altro poligono con
> tagging highway=pedestrian + area=yes e senza name.
>
Alternativamente avrei due aree con lo stesso nome di cui una contenuta
> nell'altra. Ha un qualche senso tecnico la duplicazione del nome ?
>


si, avresti al meno 2 aree con lo stesso nome, potrebbero essere anche
molte di più (secondo la piazza). Non è pero una duplicazione del nome, uno
è una piazza, l'altra è un pezzo di strada (pedonale) con un nome. Ci
possono essere anche tanti pezzi di strada (lineare) all'interno di questa
"piazza" che hanno tutti lo stesso nome (per esempio strade per macchina
che attraversano una piazza). Se non metti il nome, non sai come si chiama
la strada. Non esiste alcun tipo di eredità da un oggetto place su un
oggetto highway, a prescindere che questo sia un poligono o un way lineare.

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Come mappare le piazze

[Andrea Albani]

> le 2 opzioni sono:
>>
>> 1) highway=pedestrian + area=yes
>> 2) place=square
>>
>> oppure addirittura
>>
>> highway=pedestrian + area=yes + place=square
>>
>> come la pensiamo oggi?
>
>
>
> farei tutte due, la versione 2 è per mappare l'intera piazza (con nome),
> mentre la 1) è per le parti pedonali (se ci sono).
>
> Ciao,
> Martin
>
>
Nella mia idea place=square + name=* identifica tutta l'area che
"toponomasticamente" si chiama in un certo modo.  Se una porzione della
piazza è pedonale disegnerei un altro poligono con tagging highway=pedestrian
+ area=yes e senza name. Alternativamente avrei due aree con lo stesso nome
di cui una contenuta nell'altra. Ha un qualche senso tecnico la
duplicazione del nome ?
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[Talk-it] Linux Day e OpenStreetMap a Roma

[Alessandro Palmas]

  
  
Ciao,
l'organizzatrice del LD di Roma chiede se ci fosse qualcuno
disponibile per un intervento su OSM che riguardi il tema di questa
edizione: privacy e riservatezza.
Io penserei ad un intervento più generale su OSM che tocchi anche
il tema privacy e riservatezza.

Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT
  


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Re: [OSM-talk] Fixing wiki* -> brand:wiki*

[Златовратский Павел]

Because it is wikipedia tag for brand, not brand for wikipedia. 
("Wikipedia" property of "brand")


Like name:en is "English" property of "name", not "name" property of 
"English".



02.10.2017 11:41, Ilya Zverev пишет:

Hi folks,

One question: why brand:wikipedia and not wikipedia:brand?

Should we now use brand:ref, en:name, maxspeed:source instead of the regular 
order?

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/52002801
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/52529386
etc.

Ilya
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--
С уважением, Златовратский Павел.


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[OSM-talk-be] Building an Isochronous (SNCB / NMBS) map ?

[Matthieu Gaillet]

Hi,

I’d like to build isochronous maps for the SNCB/NMBS network in Belgium. The 
idea is getting a map visually showing the time needed to go to major cities 
when departing from an arbitrary starting city.

There are some public APIs to get the raw timing data itself, but my experience 
in developing such an app is close to zero. Anybody interested by such project 
and feeling to collaborate ? Any pointers, examples ? The closest thing I found 
is that app : http://www.commutometer.com/isokron/37.774929,-122.419416

Thanks

Matthieu
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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] [Talk-it] nasoni / was Parlano di noi su Repubblica :-)

[Lorenzo Mastrogiacomi]

drinking_water=yes/no è più una proprietà per indicare se c'è acqua
potabile o meno. Non mi sembra tanto adatto per applicargli un :type.

Non sarebbe meglio usare man_made=water_tap oppure
disused:man_made=water_tap ?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dwater_tap


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Re: [Talk-it] Come mappare le piazze

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-10-02 10:29 GMT+02:00 demon.box :

> ciao, a riguardo della mappatura delle piazze, se n'è già parlato da queste
> parti, ma era 1 anno e mezzo fa (gennaio 2016 precisamente) nel frattempo è
> cambiato qualcosa circa la possibilità di utilizzare o meno place=square?
>
> le 2 opzioni sono:
>
> 1) highway=pedestrian + area=yes
> 2) place=square
>
> oppure addirittura
>
> highway=pedestrian + area=yes + place=square
>
> come la pensiamo oggi?



farei tutte due, la versione 2 è per mappare l'intera piazza (con nome),
mentre la 1) è per le parti pedonali (se ci sono).

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Come mappare le piazze

[Andrea Albani]

Ciao,
io sto al momento sto mappando le piazze così:

* disegno un poligono sull'effettivo perimetro della piazza fino alla sua
estensione formale (ovvero fino a dove non c'è un cartello che segnala il
nome di un'altra via nel caso di survey). Questo poligono è taggato come
place=square + name=*

* iI poligono ha in comune un nodo per ogni highway che l'attraversa e
l'highway è spezzata in quel punto
le parti di highway all'interno del poligono hanno lo stesso name della
piazza e il tag highway ha il valore ritenuto opportuno

* se una piazza è "pedonale" ovvero ad esempio l'accesso di mezzi a motore
non è consentito o è regolamentato (parcheggio, solo determinati utenti,
etc) aggiungo anche al medesimo poligono area=yes e highway=pedestrian.

In passato ho, per quanto appreso in lista, taggato erroneamente piazze con
area=yes e highway diverso da pedestrian, situazioni che sto correggendo.

Ciao

Il giorno 2 ottobre 2017 10:29, demon.box  ha scritto:

> ciao, a riguardo della mappatura delle piazze, se n'è già parlato da queste
> parti, ma era 1 anno e mezzo fa (gennaio 2016 precisamente) nel frattempo è
> cambiato qualcosa circa la possibilità di utilizzare o meno place=square?
>
> le 2 opzioni sono:
>
> 1) highway=pedestrian + area=yes
> 2) place=square
>
> oppure addirittura
>
> highway=pedestrian + area=yes + place=square
>
> come la pensiamo oggi?
>
> grazie
>
> --enrico
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html
>
> ___
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Re: [Talk-it] Come mappare le piazze

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 02/10/2017 10:29, demon.box ha scritto:

ciao, a riguardo della mappatura delle piazze, se n'è già parlato da queste
parti, ma era 1 anno e mezzo fa (gennaio 2016 precisamente) nel frattempo è
cambiato qualcosa circa la possibilità di utilizzare o meno place=square?

le 2 opzioni sono:

1) highway=pedestrian + area=yes
2) place=square

oppure addirittura

highway=pedestrian + area=yes + place=square

come la pensiamo oggi?

grazie

--enrico




A me pareva se ne era parlato solo qualche mese fà, e facendo un pò di 
ricerca:


http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Novita-sulle-piazze-td5888485.html#a5888499




--
Simone Girardelli
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|

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Re: [OSM-talk] Fixing wiki* -> brand:wiki*

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi folks,

One question: why brand:wikipedia and not wikipedia:brand?

Should we now use brand:ref, en:name, maxspeed:source instead of the regular 
order?

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/52002801
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/52529386
etc.

Ilya
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[Talk-de] Voting zu den Hydrant-Erweiterungen läuft

[chris66]

Moin,
noch bis zum 15. Oktober kann man abstimmen.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Fire_Hydrant_Extensions

Chris



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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Lester Caine]

On 19/09/17 21:03, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> There is now a relatively small number of OSM nodes and relations
> remaining, that have wikipedia, but do not have wikidata tags. iD editor
> already automatically adds wikidata to all new edits, so finishing up
> the rest automatically seems like a good thing to do, as that will allow
> many new quality control queries. I would like to auto-add all the
> corresponding wikidata based on wikipedia, for all remaining objects,
> using  JOSM's "Fetch Wikidata IDs".

Yuri
I'm going to wind things back in a bit here as the discussion seems to
be widely disjointed.

I think there needs to be a formal discussion as to just what secondary
data sources are preferred when adding additonal data to OSM objects.
Wikipedia is a useful secondary source for a vast range of material, but
some objects in OSM will not be 'notable' enough for wikipedia to allow
an article to exist, so an alternative mechanism is needed for those
objects. wikidata may well be a suitable alternative, but the simple
fact that a more detailed article for a wikidata object by not be
accepted makes wikidata something of a problem as well. While
wikipedia/wikidata provide a sort of standard framework for additional
data, the primary link from an OSM object should perhaps be to websites
specific to the object rather than the filtered wikipedia view of the
world?

Some of the tangential debate has been re ADDING links to OSM object
that have not yet been tagged with something suitable, and this is where
cross matching these items depends on the information already available
on in the OSM tags. I have still to be convinced that wikidata is
'independent' enough to be a reliable source of cross-reference links,
especially where other reference tags are already used. UK Schools we
have added the reference from the schools database. I've not looked to
see if a wikidata 'view' of that data is available, but I would not look
to add wikidata id's in addition to the school id's - BUT the wikipedia
reference has been added where the schools are notable enough to warrant
an article. I WOULD only look to tidying these objects to ADD the
wikidata id if one was also checking that all three elements are
correct, rather than simply automatically adding them. Whilst I was
processing that data during the UK group push on it there were often a
lot of corrections made to get the right 'set' of data on a school
object. While only a small number of objects were actually wrong, that
is enough to justify needing a manual cross check of some sort.

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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[Talk-it] Come mappare le piazze

[demon.box]

ciao, a riguardo della mappatura delle piazze, se n'è già parlato da queste
parti, ma era 1 anno e mezzo fa (gennaio 2016 precisamente) nel frattempo è
cambiato qualcosa circa la possibilità di utilizzare o meno place=square?

le 2 opzioni sono:

1) highway=pedestrian + area=yes
2) place=square

oppure addirittura

highway=pedestrian + area=yes + place=square   

come la pensiamo oggi?

grazie

--enrico




--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html

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Re: [Talk-it] Domanda da nuovo arrivato!

[Gian Luca Gaiba]

Direi che cosi’ mi e’ piu’ che sufficiente!!!

grazie

per i sotto tag sono arabo per me quindi per ora va piu’ che bene questa

grazie ancora!!!


> On 29 Sep 2017, at 16:34, Andrea Albani  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> e cioe’ nell’output csv vorrei avere
> 
> 23445667, il nome del nodo, 44.233455,11.2345667, bus_stop
> 23445667, il nome del nodo, 44.233455,11.2345667, halt
> 23445667, il nome del nodo, 44.233455,11.2345667, station
> 
> 
> Mi sono scervellato un po' con le query overpass fra variabili, cicli for 
> etc, ma senza arrivare ad un dunque su quanto richiedi.
> 
> Per quanto di mia conoscenza potresti usare una soluzione di compromesso: se 
> nell'elenco dei campi aggiungi anche "railway" ti riporterà, per i soli nodi 
> riferiti ad una stazione ferroviaria, la tipologia che cerchi. Per i nodi 
> relativi alle fermate dei bus, avendo come tag highway, non apparirà nulla. 
> La query potrebbe essere la seguente:
> 
> [out:csv(::id,"name",::lat,::lon,"railway";true;",")][timeout:250];
> {{geocodeArea:Italia}}->.searchArea;
> (
>   node["railway"="station"](area.searchArea);
>   node["railway"="halt"](area.searchArea);
>   node["highway"="bus_stop"](area.searchArea);
> );
> out;
> 
> Non so se così può essere sufficiente... dipende poi cosa ci devi fare. Devi 
> quindi assumere che, in assenza del valore dell'ultimo campo, il nodo è 
> riferito ad una fermata bus.
> 
> Ciao
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[OSM-talk] Licence compatibility (was Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag)

[Andy Townsend]

On 02/10/2017 02:56, Paul Norman wrote:

On 10/1/2017 5:39 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
Lastly, if the coordinates are different, you may not copy it from 
OSM to Wikidata because of the difference in the license.


Just for clarity and anyone reading the archives later, copying from 
Wikidata to OSM is also a problem because Wikidata permits coordinate 
sources like Wikipedia or Google Earth.


_
Would a data consumer be able to legally combine OSM and 
wikipedia/wikidata data in any meaningful way, given this fundamental 
licence incompatibility?  What requirements would they have to fulfil 
with their combined data?  The OSM side of things is discussed in some 
detail at 
http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Licence_and_Legal_FAQ , but 
what about requirements due to other data in there?


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging "Shared space" roads (Preston City Centre)

[Paul Berry]

One of the most significant shared space street schemes in the country (at
least, the one that got the most publicity) is Exhibition Road. Here's part
of it: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34401602 and it's mapped as living
street even though it is not residential.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhibition_Road

Should it be changed also?

Regards,
*Paul*

On 1 October 2017 at 23:17, Colin Smale  wrote:

> And here's a road that wants to be a shared space but isn't there yet...
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/NHnieuws/videos/1627424217288914/
>
> The goal of reducing the traffic speed has been achieved, apparently.
>
>
> On 2017-10-01 20:16, Richard Mann wrote:
>
> The classic shared space scheme in Haren:
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/53.17312/6.60310
>
> has no tags that I can see.
>
> I'd go for something like shared_space=yes for the moment. It's a
> "special" type of traffic calming.
>
> On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Colin Smale  wrote:
>
>> Just like in the UK, the councils here make it up as they go along; a
>> "shared space" has no special legal status, unlike a "woonerf".
>>
>> A general principle which has proved its worth is that to make things
>> safer, you remove the safety features. Like white lines and kerbs. Everyone
>> moans a bit, but in the mean time you slow down and watch out just that
>> little bit more... Hence shared spaces, an apparent free-for-all that works
>> well.
>>
>> On 2017-10-01 18:57, Andy Townsend wrote:
>>
>> Not an answer, but a suggestion where there might be a bit more info...
>>
>> The Netherlands forum https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=12
>> might be worth a read, since the shared space concept was pioneered there;
>> https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=54843 is directly about
>> "shared_space" but a search for "woonerf" (aka "home zone") gets a whole
>> bunch more hits.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Tomas Straupis]

> Tomas, this is what I understand from what you are saying:
> * You download a geotagging wikidata dump and generate a table with
> latitude, longitude, and a wiki page title.
> * You also generate the same table from OSM for all nodes, ways (using geo
> centroid?), and relations (using ??)
> * you compare article titles between the two, and when OSM has something
> that Wikipedia doesn't, you search automatically by geo proximity, or you
> let users fix it or ??

  Relations (abstract colletions, not multipoligons as such) and long
ways, such as rivers, are ignored. There are different mechanisms to
sort those out.

  Found problems are placed on a list of problems which is then
reviewed by users, research is done and when possible - problems are
fixed on problem side (osm or wiki).

> If I understood you correctly (and please correct my understanding if I did
> not), it wouldn't work for the whole planet, simply because the average
> distance between what OSM has and what Wikidata has is far too great to be
> useful.

  If coordinates a too far apart it is reported as an error and has to
be fixed. Usually this is the case of incorrect coordinates in
wikipedia because of copying of other article with coordinates (say
for the similar object like hillfort or lake) and forgetting to update
the coordinates. There were cases when objects in Lithuania had
coordinates in Africa :-) And such cases were identified with the same
success as "closer" mis-matches. It is not important if distance is
5km or 5000km.
  The approximation we use is something like 1km which is way smaller
than Lithuania :-) So I do not see why this mechanism would not work
globally.

> current state of the world OSM data is that there are only 17% of nodes are
> within 10 meters of their Wikidata counterpart.

  It is not important for a coordinate to be exactly the same. For
example if you have a coordinate for a lake or even hillfort, any
coordinate within a radius of hundred meters (for a hillfort) or even
more (for a lake) is perfectly ok. You can distinguish by wikipedia
data what type of object that is: waterbody or something else. So it
is possible to adjust the proximity setting for specific object type.

> If we count ways and
> relations, it drops to 11% -- http://tinyurl.com/ybp4tp7a

  This is what we've seen in the beginning before starting to fix the data.

> In other words, with your approach, you can detect when OSM's wikipedia tag
> is no longer correct, because Wikipedia geo dump no longer has it. But
> afterwards you have to go and fix it by hand.  And this is pretty much the
> only operation you can do with this approach.  You cannot analyze tens of
> thousands of existing wikipedia tags that are pointing to links, disambigs,
> people, tree species, places of business - you can simply mark them as "geo
> missing in Wikipedia".

  Identifying them as "missing in wikipedia" proved to be enough.

> I took a quick look at the various quality control queries I built on the
> cleanup page.  Lithuania does seem pretty clean, with only one
> disambiguation at the moment (has been there for 4 months) -
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1717783246 - but both have the same
> location, two airports that point to a list -
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1042034645 and
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1042034660 . None of these issues are
> possible to find with your approach, or detect renaming. For the rest of the
> world, the situation is much worse.

  All three are successfully identified in a large (435 item) problem
list of "objects with wikipedia tag where wikipedia article does not
have coordinates or coordinates a too far apart".

-- 
Tomas

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Yuri Astrakhan]

>
>
>   I will repeat that this is not something which COULD be done, this
> comparison is something, what IS ACTUALLY DONE and has been done for
> years.


Tomas, this is what I understand from what you are saying:
* You download a geotagging wikidata dump and generate a table with
latitude, longitude, and a wiki page title.
* You also generate the same table from OSM for all nodes, ways (using geo
centroid?), and relations (using ??)
* you compare article titles between the two, and when OSM has something
that Wikipedia doesn't, you search automatically by geo proximity, or you
let users fix it or ??

If I understood you correctly (and please correct my understanding if I did
not), it wouldn't work for the whole planet, simply because the average
distance between what OSM has and what Wikidata has is far too great to be
useful.  Maybe Lithuania, being a relatively small area with a very active
community has been kept up in a perfect form (and each geo point is
identical in both Wikidata & OSM, which might be a licensing issue), but
the current state of the world OSM data is that there are only 17% of nodes
are within 10 meters of their Wikidata counterpart. If we count ways and
relations, it drops to 11% -- http://tinyurl.com/ybp4tp7a

In other words, with your approach, you can detect when OSM's wikipedia tag
is no longer correct, because Wikipedia geo dump no longer has it. But
afterwards you have to go and fix it by hand.  And this is pretty much the
only operation you can do with this approach.  You cannot analyze tens of
thousands of existing wikipedia tags that are pointing to links, disambigs,
people, tree species, places of business - you can simply mark them as "geo
missing in Wikipedia".

I took a quick look at the various quality control queries I built on the
cleanup page.  Lithuania does seem pretty clean, with only one
disambiguation at the moment (has been there for 4 months) -
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1717783246 - but both have the same
location, two airports that point to a list -
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1042034645 and
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1042034660 . None of these issues are
possible to find with your approach, or detect renaming. For the rest of
the world, the situation is much worse.
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