Re[2]: Umlauts in Subject aren't display ed_properly_(Ä) (Joyeux Noël)
Hello Peter, Umlauts denote a different vowel sound whereas the same diacritic mark (the diaeresis in English) (š) in other languages, e.g. French, denotes that vowels should be pronounced separately. Not always, Peter :-) In my sample, poële pronouces poal and not powel (in english) (different sound), but Noël prounouces nowel (in english). -- Regards, Francismailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using TB! 3.61.11 Echo (Beta) Pro on Windows XP rev 2600 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Umlauts in Subject aren't display_ed_ properly_(Ä) (Joyeux Noël)
Francis, On 20-10-2005 08:32, you [FD] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Umlauts denote a different vowel sound whereas the same diacritic mark (the diaeresis in English) () in other languages, e.g. French, denotes that vowels should be pronounced separately. FD Not always, Peter :-) This is off-topic, so this will be my last post on the subject. FD In my sample, poële pronouces poal and not powel (in english) FD (different sound), but Noël prounouces nowel (in english). I think this has more to do with the vowel after the following consonant than the diaeresis. You can read more about the ¨ diacritic mark here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.61.12 Echo (Beta) Pro /thebat version env. ~4 POP3, 7 IMAP (UW IMAP 2002e) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 175K msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 /os Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Can *anyone* explain tabs?
Hello Gene, On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] GK I have four tabs, All, Unread, Virtual, and Other. That's interesting because my last tab is Generic group (with the two) and I can edit it but can't delete it as it's the main one. Sorry, not much help I know. -- Regards, Richard | The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) with SpamPal POP3 account | Windows XP (build 2600), version 5. 1 Service Pack 2 | F-Prot AV, Outpost Firewall Pro 3.0.543.5722 (431) and no Plug-ins http://perso.wanadoo.fr/lazyhomes/holiday.html Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) is now available
Dear 9val, @19-Oct-2005, 22:08 +0300 (19-Oct 20:08 here) 9Val [9] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to All: 9 Here is a short list of changes: 9 [-] (#0005180) Alt+letter menu-hotkeys dosn't work in Log Window 9 [-] (#0005186) In NFS Action Set user param value broken after 9reopening 9 [-] (#0005194) Condition Time of reception doesn't work 9 [-] (#0005189) VF created from Message Finder not shown in Folder Tree 9 [-] Other Save All Attachments command didn't check saved 9files for viruses. 9 [-] Other When POP3 was configured to use connection Secure to 9Regular Port and the certificate was invalid, The 9Bag! did add a meaningless message to the account log. Reply to a specific HTML message in this version gave me a blank edit window which, when I clicked into it, gave a List index out of bounds. Shut down and restarted TB. Same error. Reverted to beta 12. Reply worked fine. Still *anxiously* awaiting the release of a fix for https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4933 -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.61.12 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgp4YdDnbVuI9.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: pgp(mime) not working?
Hi Henk, On Thursday, October 20, 2005, 6:45:51 AM: Had some problems signing my previous message pgp/mime: gpg: no default secret key: bad passphrase gpg: [stdin]: clearsign failed: bad passphrase Just signed a testmessage to myself, no problem here. I'll activate PGP/Mime for this message also. regards Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Die zehn Gebote sind deswegen so kurz und logisch, weil sie ohne Mitwirkung von Juristen zustande gekommen sind. (Charles de Gaulle, franz. Politiker General, 1890-1970) pgpOvUfoi0OOE.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Umlauts in Subject aren't display _ed_properly_(Ä) (Joyeux Noël)
Hello, This is off-topic, so this will be my last post on the subject. Remaining in topic: the ë in the subject oh this message is correctly displayed, since 4 reply-to in thread (with version 3.61.11 and 3.61.12). Bug not confirmed for me. -- Regards, Francismailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using TB! 3.61.11 Echo (Beta) Pro on Windows XP rev 2600 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) is now available
Hi 9Val, On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, at 22:08:01 [GMT +0300] (which was 21:08 where I live) you wrote about: 'The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) is now available' The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) is now available from: http://www.ritlabs.com/en/tbbeta/ Here is a short list of changes: [-] (#0005180) Alt+letter menu-hotkeys dosn't work in Log Window [-] (#0005186) In NFS Action Set user param value broken after reopening [-] (#0005194) Condition Time of reception doesn't work [-] (#0005189) VF created from Message Finder not shown in Folder Tree [-] Other Save All Attachments command didn't check saved files for viruses. [-] Other When POP3 was configured to use connection Secure to Regular Port and the certificate was invalid, The Bag! did add a meaningless message to the account log. Any news on my issue concerning attachments that are corrupted by TB (https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5144) ? I really can't move to new builds until this attachment corruption is fixed. -- Robert van der Hulst [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! 3.60.02 Forerunner (Beta) on Windows XP.5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Umlauts in Subject aren't displayed prop erly (Ä) (Joyeux Noël)
Hallo Francis, On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:51:21 +0200GMT (20-10-2005, 9:51 +0200, where I live), you wrote: This is off-topic, so this will be my last post on the subject. FD Remaining in topic: the ë in the subject oh this message is FD correctly displayed, since 4 reply-to in thread (with version 3.61.11 FD and 3.61.12). FD Bug not confirmed for me. Well, but after the Noël part was added I got three underscores in the subject: Re[2]: Umlauts in Subject aren't display_ed_properly_(Ä) (Joyeux Noël) While before 'Noël' was added I had only one underscore: Re: Umlauts in Subject aren't displayed properly_(Ä) I'm not sure how those underscores came into existence, but they even appeared in the editable header of my edit screen, so I've deleted them now. -- Groetjes, Roelof I'm never difficult...Impossible maybe, difficult, never. The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgptsRn7J2njs.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Virtual Folder - Message List Columns
Hello Martin, I made a virtual folder. In this folder I wanted to add an other message list column (folder). Right-click in the title line of the message list - Message List Columns and the new is added. But when I leave this virtual folder and when I come back to this folder the adders column isn't there. It seems to me that this additional setup isn't stored. Confirmed with a real folder and v3.61.13. Even exiting and restarting TB before moving to another folder does not save the new setting. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello Roelof, A reminder of what Roelof Otten on TBBETA typed on: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 at 23:50:11 GMT +0200 I'm getting a 'no message displayed' message on screen Please don't say that the IMAP phenomenon is creeping into the POP scene as well :) -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Umlauts in Subject aren't displayed prop erly (Ä) (Joyeux Noël)
Hello Francis, A reminder of what Francis Dhumes on TBBETA typed on: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 at 23:17:43 GMT +0200 In french they're called tréma(s). Apparently there are thousands of those around the world every day, along with as many if not more lightening strikes. :) -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hi Tony, On Thursday, October 20, 2005, 10:54:36 AM: I'm getting a 'no message displayed' message on screen Please don't say that the IMAP phenomenon is creeping into the POP scene as well :) Hey, that's equality. Why all the fun just for the IMAP-users? You have the right for a daily surprise also ;-) regads, Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Es ist nicht der Fluss, der fliesst, sondern das Wasser. PGP oder S/MIME-Verschlüsselung erwünscht! pgpApZHhei228.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) is now available
Hello Vili, A reminder of what Vili on TBBETA typed on: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 at 17:34:11 GMT -0400 We may have members under age 18 :))) I doubt it, this is a grown up list, all the kiddies will be on the Incredimail list :) -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Umlauts in Subject aren't displayed prop erly (Ä) (Joyeux Noël)
Hello Francis, A reminder of what Francis Dhumes on TBBETA typed on: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 at 23:17:43 GMT +0200 Noël (Christmas), poële (stove). So if there is noel there must only be 25 letters in the English language. But there is also a double u so that makes up for it. When I asked what one was I didn't expect such a big debate about it. I can understand your frustration though if TB doesn't reproduce them properly. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hallo Tony, On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:54:36 +0100GMT (20-10-2005, 10:54 +0200, where I live), you wrote: I'm getting a 'no message displayed' message on screen (Should have 'loaded' instead of 'displayed') TB Please don't say that the IMAP phenomenon is creeping into the POP scene as TB well :) Okay, I won't say that. But fact is that I'm having problems with Cees' messages every once in a while, no matter what TB version I'm using. After I posted my complaint yesterday, (half an hour later) I was able to read his messages again without restarting TB. Tomorrow I booted the system, started TB and the problem was back again. Not only for all of Cees' messages, but also for one of Sean's too. I blamed the problem with Cees to his message body being base 64 encoded and S/MIME signed, but Sean only used the latter. Maybe it's just that Cees writes so much that it's always his messages that I encounter when I'm having this problems -- Groetjes, Roelof Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody is looking The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpTdlVIzbtBR.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Umlauts in Subject aren't display ed_p roperly_(Ä) (Joyeux Noël)
Hello Ian, A reminder of what Ian A. White on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 16:52:09 GMT +1000 the spelling of his hame (Stojanovic). I'm OK with that type of spelling and pronunciation, my friends wife had exactly the same name before she married so I had it explained to me many, many years ago. I think her's was more of a sty sound rather than sto though. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Umlauts in Subject aren't displayed prop erly (Ä) (Joyeux Noël)
Hello Roelof, A reminder of what Roelof Otten on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 10:37:45 GMT +0200 Well, but after the Noël part was added I got three underscores in the subject: Re[2]: Umlauts in Subject aren't display_ed_properly_(Ä) (Joyeux Noël) I got exactly the same so it's affecting me as well. Not that I would have noticed had the subject not arisen. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello Michael, A reminder of what Michael Schneider on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 11:00:33 GMT +0200 Hey, that's equality. Why all the fun just for the IMAP-users? I had more than my share of that type of fun which is why I changed all my accounts back to POP. I just couldn't take all that joy and laughter any longer. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) is no w available (ÄÖÜäöüß)
Hi 9Val, did somebody mention the umlaut bug already for Beta 13? I did not find any complains about that in this thread. Well, still not fixed and very annyoing... :-/ (Or are only the old messages corrupted?) Is there a bug listed in BT? I really would like to push it a little by posting also there. Regards, Martin -- The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) powered by Windows 2003 5.2 Build 3790 Service Pack 1 ConCarne cooks best since 1998 http://www.concarne.org smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello Roelof, A reminder of what Roelof Otten on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 11:10:19 GMT +0200 Okay, I won't say that. But fact is that I'm having problems I think everyone has problems with TB! Some affecting people more than others depending on how they use TB! Umlauts, don't affect me, I don't use them. Virtual folders don't, I don't use them. IMAP... Affected me to the extent I gave up on it completely. I know this has been said time and time again but I'd like to see progress of TB! stop completely, no more additions, no more fancy bells, no more whistles, VF's, no more anything. I'd like to see RL start at the top of the bug list and fix each bug in turn. Not just random ones or ones that are easy to fix. Start with bug number one, fix the first 5 or 10 and then let us test them with a new beta. If my bug is number 197 then I'm more than happy to wait my turn as long as I can see things being fixed rather than a new function being added and consequently more bugs. Maybe even a separate branch of the beta cycle just so we can have at least one rock solid version. Once that's been accomplished they can then start at the top of the wish list and start adding the knobs either they want or people want. Not sure how many of you will agree with that but at the moment development chaos seems to reign supreme. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[3]: Umlauts in Subject aren't display ed_properly_(Ä) (Joyeux Noël)
Bonjour Francis, I know, this is totally out of topic, but as I do not intervene very often on this list, I take the chance to correct this small imprecision :-) By the way, I confirm that the Umlaute-trémas-diaereses aren't correctly displayed in 3.61.13. This being a show stopper for me, I had to return to 3.61.10. FD Not always, Peter :-) FD In my sample, poële pronouces poal and not powel (in english) FD (different sound), but Noël prounouces nowel (in english). Sorry Francis, but Peter is right. Diaeresis is used in French to indicate that the concerned letter does not belong to a group of vowels pronounced as one sound: UE of guerre (war) is pronounced as a single E, while UË of ambiguë (ambiguous) is pronounced U-E (separate sounds, or quasi-diphthongs). the same occurs in Spanish, unlike the German Umlaut which indicates a specific sound: A of Bar does not have the same value as Ä of Bär (bear), pronounced ber. A last word concerning poële or poëlle (also but rarely written poile, i.e. Littré ): these spelling are now obsolete - for more than a century actually :-) French dictionaries only accept poêle nowadays (i.e. Dictionnaire de l'Académie, Robert, Quillet, Larousse, TLF). I don't know if these older form are still in use in Belgium, Switzerland or Canada. best regards Francis -- FRANCIS J. SEGOND Webpage: http://faustroll.net, http://butsu.org PGP-Key: http://www.segond.de/pubkey/segond.asc Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) is now available
Hello Marck, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 10:27:11 AM, you wrote: Reply to a specific HTML message in this version gave me a blank edit window which, when I clicked into it, gave a List index out of bounds. Shut down and restarted TB. Same error. if it's reproducible, please file up a bt issue and attach the example. -- Best regards, vitaliemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Not sure how many of you will agree with that Get's my vote, but then it did the last time someone suggested it. Sadly this kind of work is too dull for/beneath RL's programming team. -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. Why is it that, no matter what colour of bubble bath you use, the bubbles are always white? pgpLywS95WTa1.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) is now available
Dear Vitalie, @20-Oct-2005, 13:03 +0300 (20-Oct 11:03 here) vitalie vrabie [VV] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck: Reply to a specific HTML message in this version gave me a blank edit window which, when I clicked into it, gave a List index out of bounds. Shut down and restarted TB. Same error. VV if it's reproducible, please file up a bt issue and attach the VV example. Done; https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5205 -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.61.12 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgpMGw70oIU4O.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello Stuart, A reminder of what Stuart Hemming on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 11:05:19 GMT +0100 Sadly this kind of work is too dull for/beneath RL's programming team. Hunting down bugs may well be boring, I agree that implementing new ideas and features, getting them to work, *if* they can get them to work is infinitely more exciting. But surely it's a way of restoring confidence in the product, confidence in their programming ability, confidence that SO MANY people have lost and have voiced their opinion on. It's just my opinion but I feel it's time for them to stop and take stock of what they're trying to achieve, a good stable world class product or maybe they're content to settle for mediocrity. Because that's what it is, a mediocre email client (maybe marginally better than mediocre) full of fantastic functions very few of which work to their full potential. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Stuart, On 20-10-2005 12:05, you [SH] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: SH Get's my vote, but then it did the last time someone suggested it. SH Sadly this kind of work is too dull for/beneath RL's programming SH team. I don't think this is fair. While I would like Ritlabs to do this too, they have to generate revenue and you get that through new features and not fixing (small) bugs (I am not saying that the outstanding bugs are small, but only that fixing small bugs does not generate revenue. Fixing larger bugs possibly only generates a little revenue). -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.61.12 Echo (Beta) Pro /thebat version env. ~4 POP3, 7 IMAP (UW IMAP 2002e) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 175K msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 /os Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
but only that fixing small bugs does not generate revenue. Fixing larger bugs possibly only generates a little revenue). So it's OK to leave 'em in?!?!? I work for a software company and I know exactly how our customer's would respond to /that/ as an argument. RL staffers have said openly that fixing bugs is boring and that they don't like doing it. Sadly, big bits of life is like that but it doesn't mean we can just avoid it (try it with your next Tax Return!). -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. Just think, if it weren't for marriage, men would go through life thinking they had no faults at all. pgpu9UxT1lufK.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Stuart, On 20-10-2005 12:57, you [SH] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: but only that fixing small bugs does not generate revenue. Fixing larger bugs possibly only generates a little revenue). SH So it's OK to leave 'em in?!?!? No it's not. Of course not. My statement was in the context of stopping all development of new features and fixing bugs for 1 year. -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.61.12 Echo (Beta) Pro /thebat version env. ~4 POP3, 7 IMAP (UW IMAP 2002e) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 175K msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 /os Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Virtual Folder - Message List Columns
Hi Martin, on Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:12:42 +0200GMT (19.10.2005, 21:12 +0200GMT here), you wrote: MS I made a virtual folder. In this folder I wanted to add an other MS message list column (folder). Right-click in the title line of the MS message list - Message List Columns and the new is added. MS But when I leave this virtual folder and when I come back to this MS folder the adders column isn't there. It seems to me that this MS additional setup isn't stored. This seems to be related to https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5181, as other folder settings are not stored either. Please add your observation to BT. -- Cheers Peter The Bat! v3.61.12 Echo :beta: on Win2K, SP4, 5, 0, build 2195 plenty of POP accounts, no IMAP, OTFE disabled AMD Athlon 2200+ at 1794 MHz, 512 MB RAM Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
No it's not. Of course not. My statement was in the context of stopping all development of new features and fixing bugs for 1 year. It doesn't have to be a year. I would suggest a slight modification to Tony's plan, one that allows the RL team to focus on all of the bugs related to a given set of functionality; IMAP, UI, filters, etc and fixing 'em all, or at least all those that can be fixed and properly reporting on the rest. -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. On the keyboard of life, always keep one finger on the escape key. pgp6Ko0aQloT7.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello Peter, A reminder of what Peter Fjelsten on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 12:42:17 GMT +0200 While I would like Ritlabs to do this too, they have to generate revenue and you get that through new features and not fixing (small) bugs So it doesn't matter if the product works or not, just as long as they can grab your money and run! -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello Peter, A reminder of what Peter Fjelsten on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 13:02:52 GMT +0200 My statement was in the context of stopping all development of new features and fixing bugs for 1 year. Suppose you bought a new house and the roof leaked. Would you expect the builder to forget about you and carry on building new houses just so he could get more money? Whatever you call it, it's commonly known as sub standard workmanship be it houses, cars or software. And as soon as you get that reputation people will stop buying from you. So creating revenue isn't a valid argument for not fixing bugs. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Tony, On 20-10-2005 13:26, you [TB] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: While I would like Ritlabs to do this too, they have to generate revenue and you get that through new features and not fixing (small) bugs TB So it doesn't matter if the product works or not, just as long as they can TB grab your money and run! Did you not read my response to Stuart? If they don't make any revenue there is definitely nobody to fix bugs. For the record: Also I would prefer RL fixed bugs rather than adding new stuff. I am running IMAP - so that should give you an idea! -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.61.12 Echo (Beta) Pro /thebat version env. ~4 POP3, 7 IMAP (UW IMAP 2002e) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 175K msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 /os Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hi Peter, On Thursday, October 20, 2005, 12:42:17 PM: I don't think this is fair. While I would like Ritlabs to do this too, they have to generate revenue and you get that through new features and not fixing (small) bugs (I am not saying that the outstanding bugs are small, but only that fixing small bugs does not generate revenue. Fixing larger bugs possibly only generates a little revenue). No. You get revenue from satisfied customers. You get revenue from good reviews and from customers who like your product and promote it. Especially this kind of software and its niche on the market. And to be honest... can you recommend TheBat! at this moment to your friends and colleagues? I can't. If I haven't worked with TheBat! since many years and I would now get in touch with it for the first time ... no chance of buying a licence. Not stable, dozens of functions, all of them useful but most of them not really working or thought-out till the end. And a bunch of bugs that are being carried with the program since x versions. The impression that's being drawn in your mind: a gigantic construction site which let you anticipate what there will be in the future. But nothing more. Just my opinion. If you compare the development of TheBat! with other products, you will see main differences: - noticeable higher release cycles - much more new functions in each release - lower priority of stabilising the product - no bugfix-only releases - parallel release of new functions and fixes which often causes new problems - the developers seem to be unfamiliar with the development-status feature freeze ... TheBat! is so full of functions which most of us never conceived of. Now it's time to take a rest and think about how to reorganize some things (like contact to the costumers or giving themselves a clear roadmap of the future - which seems to not exist?!) and concentrate on bringing this awesome product forward - relating to getting it reliable. I don't need 4 or 5 new versions a year (some of them wouldn't even get the beta-status at other companies). I need one or perhaps two. But these have to be rock-stable! That would be normal, that would be welcome. If necessary some patches for important fixes. But that's all. This would get some calmness into the TheBat!-Community and bring back confidence into Ritlabs. After that: get on with new ideas and test them for a more bigger period than now. If internal test and the open beta signalise, that everything works fine, every new function is working properly ... bring on the new final. And so on. Step by step. regards, Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Filmgesetz 67: Wenn man mit dem Auto ins Wasser fällt, hat man immer noch genug Zeit, unter einen Steg zu tauchen, bevor die bösen Jungs kommen. pgpX4HnBoVgFB.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello Stuart, A reminder of what Stuart Hemming on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 12:17:57 GMT +0100 one that allows the RL team to focus on all of the bugs related to a given set of functionality; IMAP, UI, filters, etc and fixing 'em all, Like when they promised a whole beta cycle dedicated to IMAP? Can't stop, Catherine Zeta Jones has just turned up and I got to make her a cuppa tea... -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello Peter, A reminder of what Peter Fjelsten on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 13:31:13 GMT +0200 If they don't make any revenue there is definitely nobody to fix bugs. And if they keep trying to sell something that don't work properly no one will buy it and they still won't need anybody to fix the bugs or add new features. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Tony, On 20-10-2005 14:00, you [TB] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: TB And if they keep trying to sell something that don't work properly TB no one will buy it and they still won't need anybody to fix the bugs TB or add new features. True. But I wonder how many ordinary users (by ordinary I mean people who are disinterested in discussing software on mailing lists) feel that TB! is full of bugs. If the majority feel this, then you're right. -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 3.61.12 Echo (Beta) Pro /thebat version env. ~4 POP3, 7 IMAP (UW IMAP 2002e) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 175K msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 /os Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello, Peter Fjelsten wrote: Tony, On 20-10-2005 14:00, you [TB] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: TB And if they keep trying to sell something that don't work properly TB no one will buy it and they still won't need anybody to fix the bugs TB or add new features. True. But I wonder how many ordinary users (by ordinary I mean people who are disinterested in discussing software on mailing lists) feel that TB! is full of bugs. If the majority feel this, then you're right. This has been quite an enlightening discussion for me. I've only fairly recently purchased the bat and because of some bugs I was suffering decided to join the beta list to see if that resolved any. I am using imap and as I understand it that is probably about the worse thing you can do with the bat. The feature set is fantastic but as others have mentioned a lot of it is buggy. I found myself having to drag to the trash, instead of just hitting the delete key because that didn't work, having to deal with duplicate mail, having read mail re-appear as unread, etc. etc. This morning I've given up and installed ThunderBird. Obviously I should have spent longer with the demo than I did. Richard Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Steven, On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:49:35 -0400 GMT (06/10/2005, 20:49 +0700 GMT), Steven P Valliere wrote: SPV I noticed that Thunderbird has a ice feature that I SPV cannot (but would like to) find in TB: When an HTML SPV email is displayed that contains graphics from EXTERNAL SPV locations (i.e. they were not attached to the email), SPV it shows them with the 'broken image' icon and offers SPV a 'Show Images' button in the message header. SPV This is a wonderful and NECESSARY feature. It's a long-standing wish to have the option of downloading pictures (default would be off): http://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=1780 Please support it. -- Cheers, Thomas. Top 10 Reasons To Go To Work Naked: 3. Diverts attention from the fact that you also came to work drunk. Message reply created with The Bat! 3.61.12 Echo (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
But I wonder how many ordinary users (by ordinary I mean people who are disinterested in discussing software on mailing lists) feel that TB! is full of bugs. Anyone who's tried to use IMAP? Anyone who's tried to make sense of the UI configuration options. Anyone who's tried to get the scheduler to work ... -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend. A successful woman is one who can find such a man. pgpnWM65RNAQn.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
This morning I've given up and installed ThunderBird. If that's not an example of lost revenue (even if it's future revenue) then I don't know what is. -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. The Benefits of Being Over Sixty ( 3) : Your joints are more accurate meteorologists than the national weather service. pgpksF6XNx5jX.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Please support it. Done -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. In a democracy your vote counts. In feudalism your Count votes. pgpact9QzuwGq.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Thomas, On Thursday, October 20, 2005, 3:00:15 PM: It's a long-standing wish to have the option of downloading pictures (default would be off): http://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=1780 Oh ... there were many heated debates on German boards and mailing-lists about this topic. And I got always the same answers: - use another client if you want something like that or - get lost ;) Nice that I'm not the only one who wants this function which is standard in so many other clients ;) Please support it. Done. (why the hell did I never see this bt-entry before?! It's the smell of conspiracy :-DDD ) Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Die Jugend von heute liebt den Luxus, hat schlechte Manieren und verachtet die Autorität. Sie widersprechen ihren Eltern, legen die Beine übereinander und tyrannisieren ihre Lehrer. (Sokrates, gr. Philosoph, 470-399 v.Chr.) PGP oder S/MIME-Verschlüsselung erwünscht! pgpu76oA7AWlr.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello Peter, A reminder of what Peter Fjelsten on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 14:17:05 GMT +0200 But I wonder how many ordinary users (by ordinary I mean people who are disinterested in discussing software on mailing lists) feel that TB! is full of bugs. If the majority feel this, then you're right. This is something we'll never know for sure. As an ordinary user of loads of other software I know how I would and do react when trying new products. I doubt anyone joins a mailing list for every single piece of software they use. I would assume they download it, try it and after 30 days, if they persist with it that long, they buy it. If they don't like it or it's full of bugs after a few days they ditch it and try something else. When I first tried TB, v1.4 it worked like a dream, it didn't have fancy bells and gold knobs but it worked perfectly so I bought it. Should I find myself in the same situation today with AV's, floating point errors, no message loaded and such like popping up every time I boot it up I too wouldn't give it a second glance before moving on. To answer your question, how many people do we know of on these list that no longer use TB? And what's more, how many people would RL estimate download TB but never register it... How many of those people write to RL saying I tried your software but I don't like it because... RL must know how many copies of TB have been downloaded compared to how many of those copies have been registered. Provide a product that works far better than TB does now, a product that can be seen to be supported with a team that takes notice of it's beta testers and I bet that ratio will rise dramatically. Now you can answer me one question. Why are we wasting our time as beta testers if the development team are going to ignore 99% or our input? It seems like we're here just to test new functions, and when we tell them they don't work they ignore it and add something else new for us to test next beta release. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Nice that I'm not the only one who wants this function which is standard in so many other clients ;) Please support it. Done. (why the hell did I never see this bt-entry before?! It's the smell of conspiracy :-DDD ) Just to give you a hint: Let's say I am a smart spammer. I write an email using some well-known email address as sender. Using offsite images, I put a just-for-you link to a picture. You check the offsite image. Bam. I know that your email is alive. And I start to flood you... If someone want to die, he/she can click on the HTML and open it in a browser... The Bat! at least earned the title of secure email client. It should not lose this reputation. Because people are stupid. First thing would be for 99% of them to turn on that offsite image checker and check every offsite picture. And they would blame TB! after that... You said, it is a safe client... For people, who needs to see offsite images: click on the HTML attach... Believe me: we at the list at least KNOW what we do. 99% of the users DONT... We have to keep this in mind, too. -- Vili Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Vili, On Thursday, October 20, 2005, 3:52:36 PM: Just to give you a hint: Let's say I am a smart spammer. I write an email using some well-known email address as sender. Using offsite images, I put a just-for-you link to a picture. You check the offsite image. Bam. I know that your email is alive. And I start to flood you... Absolutely no argument, regardless how often it is mentioned. There's no difference between opening the image via webbrowser and opening the image within the eMail-Client. Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Für jeden Luxuspuff, den du errichtest, darfst du 'ne Kirche einreißen. (Al Bundy) pgpKuBc7jn3Tf.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: hang on
Het was op donderdag 20 oktober 2005 om 15:20 uur dat jij iets schreef over 'hang on' : Hoi Stuart, But I wonder how many ordinary users (by ordinary I mean people who are disinterested in discussing software on mailing lists) feel that TB! is full of bugs. SH Anyone who's tried to use IMAP? Anyone who's tried to make sense of SH the UI configuration options. Anyone who's tried to get the scheduler SH to work ... last night at 03:30 the scheduler took care of a perfect backup of thebat! which it does every night. -- groeten, Cees Orville's head whistles in a crosswind. __ The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) [A12F0392] running on Windows XP 5.1 build 2600 Service Pack 2 smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hi Cees, On Thursday, October 20, 2005, 4:03:58 PM: last night at 03:30 the scheduler took care of a perfect backup of thebat! which it does every night. The backup function itself is something that needs general overhaul ... Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Das letzte Wort des Gastes in der Rocker-Kneipe: Na, ihr Blödmänner! pgp3wzlgYFmSu.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[3]: Offsite Images
10/20/2005 10:08 AM Hi Vili, On 10/20/2005 Vili wrote: V Hello Michael, Nice that I'm not the only one who wants this function which is standard in so many other clients ;) Please support it. Done. (why the hell did I never see this bt-entry before?! It's the smell of conspiracy :-DDD ) V Just to give you a hint: Let's say I am a smart spammer. I write an V email using some well-known email address as sender. Using offsite V images, I put a just-for-you link to a picture. You check the offsite V image. Bam. I know that your email is alive. And I start to flood V you... V If someone want to die, he/she can click on the HTML and open it in V a browser... V The Bat! at least earned the title of secure email client. It should V not lose this reputation. Because people are stupid. First thing would V be for 99% of them to turn on that offsite image checker and check V every offsite picture. And they would blame TB! after that... You V said, it is a safe client... V For people, who needs to see offsite images: click on the HTML V attach... V Believe me: we at the list at least KNOW what we do. 99% of the users V DONT... We have to keep this in mind, too. Right on Vili! So true... One of the best compliments there is is for you to hear, I see you are not like all the rest. If I wanted to be like all the rest why would I be here?? -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/20/2005 10:13 AM Hi Michael, On 10/20/2005 Michael Schneider wrote: MS There's no difference between opening the image via webbrowser and MS opening the image within the eMail-Client. There is a difference. A conscious effort must be made which provokes thought. -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Paul, Am Thursday, October 20, 2005, 4:15:16 PM, schriebst du: There is a difference. A conscious effort must be made which provokes thought. As you surely have read, the suggestion is _not_ to activate image downloading globally or as default but to let the user decide. So you see. No difference. Clicking on one button to show the images within the message window or double-click on the html object ... There's your conscious effort. Ok, one difference. I don't have to open a second application just to see the images ;-) Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) (Marcy) Mr. Shimokawa. Was führt sie in diese Nacktbar? Ganz ehrlich gesagt, die Nackten. pgpPTe2cqmzK2.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Just to give you a hint: Let's say I am a smart spammer. I write an email using some well-known email address as sender. Using offsite images, I put a just-for-you link to a picture. You check the offsite image. Bam. I know that your email is alive. And I start to flood you... Absolutely no argument, regardless how often it is mentioned. There's no difference between opening the image via webbrowser and opening the image within the eMail-Client. I dont argue with this statement. All I am saying is, that blaming IE or blaming TB! DOES make a difference... Short (but true) story from the 60's Hungary: a prisoner (X) was suffering from the brutal warden (Y). He said, he will pay back... So, time came, he (X) was freed. Next time he was caught, the detectives found a mail from the warden saying that we will celebrate the 10th anniversary of the 1956 revolution, prepare. Even mentioning the '56 revolution would have been a big deal... Celebrating? Wow... So, the detectives went for the warden, questioned him. Of course, they found out after a while, it was a big, fat lie, just X made up the story. So, he got some time in an other prison... When the writer (a famous Hungarian writer wrote this documentary book where this story is from) asked me: was it worth it? X said: Definitely. You know, now everybody knows the truth... But in 2-3 years, people will just remember, that the warden had some unfortunate connection with the '56 revolution... He wont get any promotion, believe me... So, the same apply for TB! opening spammer images. -- Vili Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Bam. I know that your email is alive. And I start to flood you... I don't give a money's, if I want to turn it on, I should be allowed to. If the RL programmers want so badly to protect the stupid then make sure sufficiently dire warnings appear when/if the user decided to change the option from the default 'OFF' setting. If someone want to die, he/she can click on the HTML and open it in a browser... For goodness sake, no one's going to come 'round and and shoot you, nor rob your house, steal your credit card details or ravish your dog. First thing would be for 99% of them to turn on that offsite image checker and check every offsite picture. I really doubt that. How many people sitting around you now are running Windows with all the default options on? For people, who needs to see offsite images: click on the HTML attach... WTF is the difference between this and having TB! do it except the inconvenience of having having to have other windows popping up? If I can /choose/ to display the message display in IE why can't I /choose/ to have the bloody mail client do it? Believe me: we at the list at least KNOW what we do. 99% of the users DONT... We have to keep this in mind, too. I don't remember anyone appointing RL as the official net nanny ... -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. You will always be lucky if you know how to make friends with strange cats. pgpb55Dneqm6x.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
So, the same apply for TB! opening spammer images. In the name of the gods ... -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. It's been a rough day. I got up this morning put a shirt on and a button fell off. I picked up my briefcase, and the handle came off. Now I'm afraid to go to the bathroom. pgpuqIPH04E2V.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
There is a difference. A conscious effort must be made which provokes thought. And I /regularly and often/ have to make a conscious effort not to swear aloud that the mail software that refuses to let /me/ work the way that I want to. -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. The Law of Self Sacrifice: When you starve with a tiger, the tiger starves last. pgpkPTd1VxQ6u.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
last night at 03:30 the scheduler took care of a perfect backup of thebat! which it does every night. Congrats. -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piddle on your computer. pgpxjJkYHqHTV.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/20/2005 10:46 AM Hi Michael, On 10/20/2005 Michael Schneider wrote: MS As you surely have read, the suggestion is _not_ to activate image MS downloading globally or as default but to let the user decide. Too many users do not understand the ramifications of their choices and opt for the eye-candy because it make them feel good until it causes a problem. Then they call me to bail them out. I have never had to bail a TB user!! MS Ok, one difference. I don't have to open a second application just to MS see the images ;-) Precisely the point, having to open another application provokes thought. I have been a consultant for 17 years dealing with many people over the world. TB is one of my primary tools to protect users from themselves. If you want this, there are many places for you to go get it. Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/20/2005 10:54 AM Hi Stuart, On 10/20/2005 Stuart Hemming wrote: There is a difference. A conscious effort must be made which provokes thought. SH And I /regularly and often/ have to make a conscious effort not to SH swear aloud that the mail software that refuses to let /me/ work the SH way that I want to. You missed the obvious, go elsewhere...quickly! -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Abstract Error on change of view mode (was: Re: The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) is now available)
Hallo Greg, On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:50:24 -0500GMT (20-10-2005, 16:50 +0200, where I live), you wrote: GS --- GS Abstract Error. GS --- GS I received the above error when I attempted to change the view mode in GS a view folder window. Confirmed -- Groetjes, Roelof I'd Have Written Sooner But I Thought I Owed You Money. The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpeWotHXcsiL.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Paul, Am Thursday, October 20, 2005, 4:52:55 PM, schriebst du: Too many users do not understand the ramifications of their choices and opt for the eye-candy because it make them feel good until it causes a problem. Then they call me to bail them out. I have never had to bail a TB user!! 1) If you earn your money with that. Why don't be lucky? 2) If it's going on the way it is now, there will be no TB!-User who can be bailed out ;) If you want this, there are many places for you to go get it. Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. It's always a pleasure to see that there are some people thinking, they can decide how I have to handle things or how things /should/ be for all others ;) Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Es ist okay, wenn man alle bösen Menschen durch einen Riesen-Fleischwolf dreht! (NO MA'AM-Gebot Nr. 3) PGP oder S/MIME-Verschlüsselung erwünscht! pgpTwsXefy7xr.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
- use another client if you want something like that or - get lost Well, if RL don't mind loosing paying customers, I might just do that. It looks like the hard-core does not want the option and all the others can do whatever they like, but won't get what they like in The Bat! For me the feature is about all that's missing, but important enough to decide to go and get lost Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Stuart, First thing would be for 99% of them to turn on that offsite image checker and check every offsite picture. I really doubt that. How many people sitting around you now are running Windows with all the default options on? None... These guys are IQ 150 and above. I am talking IG 70 and below. (No offense to anyone.) :))) Believe me... I provide support many people. You dont know how large God's zoo is... I could story endlessly... Believe me: we at the list at least KNOW what we do. 99% of the users DONT... We have to keep this in mind, too. I don't remember anyone appointing RL as the official net nanny ... :))) But they made a choice to make the safest email client. And they are respected for it (bugs and slowing development nowadays, that is an other issue :((( -- Vili Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[3]: Offsite Images
Hello Paul, If you want this, there are many places for you to go get it. Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. Well said. Stuart: believe us, we understand you. But believe it or not, this small inconvenience for you save a lot of headache for many, many people, who does not even know, what is the difference between Del and Backspace... :(( I am not talking about me and Paul, who provide support. Many people manages their own computer. Sometimes it is good if someone else tries to protect them from themselves... -- Vili Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Vili, On Thursday, October 20, 2005, 5:33:21 PM: If you want this, there are many places for you to go get it. Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. Well said. If it's well said to tell customers to grab their money and take it away to other companies... just because /you/ think in other ways and argue with anchorless arguments? Don't know if this is the right way for Ritlabs. Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Peg, wenn du nicht meine Frau wärst, würde ich dich küssen. (Al Bundy) pgpgoAS0StWzJ.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello Peter Fjelsten everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 12:42 you (Peter Fjelsten) wrote: While I would like Ritlabs to do this too, they have to generate revenue and you get that through new features and not fixing (small) bugs (I am not saying that the outstanding bugs are small, but only that fixing small bugs does not generate revenue. Fixing larger bugs possibly only generates a little revenue). Bugs in officially available software creates zero revenue. One or two months ago I tried Directory Opus for the PC. Version 8.something (I started using DOpus on the Amiga, I know what it can do, I know its theoretically the best filemanager thing thats available). I downloaded the demo, got the eval license key, installed it, played around with it a little bit. Well, I had two crashes during the first couple of hours. I uninstalled it and gave up. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Outer space is like Dolly Parton: you don't believe it, but there it is. -- Lorne Greene Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, If you want this, there are many places for you to go get it. Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. It's always a pleasure to see that there are some people thinking, they can decide how I have to handle things or how things /should/ be for all others ;) Very far example: would you be capable to decide if we have to visit other orbits, or not? I am not capable. So, it is good that some other people think instead of me. Same applies for TB!. Just please believe me: 90% of the users are DUMB for computers like hell... They are not dumb in life. But PC does not fill their life, as fills people's at this list, they are kind people, etc. So, in the PC world, they must be... yes, controlled is the right word... Even if it is not a democratic way. -- Vili Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello Peter Fjelsten everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 13:02 you (Peter Fjelsten) wrote: but only that fixing small bugs does not generate revenue. Fixing larger bugs possibly only generates a little revenue). SH So it's OK to leave 'em in?!?!? No it's not. Of course not. My statement was in the context of stopping all development of new features and fixing bugs for 1 year. ...because as soon as that happens, someone else would ask what about (Unicode|HTML templates|anything) support, I've been waiting for this so long! ;-) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) The major task of the twentieth century will be to explore the unconscious, to investigate the subsoil of the mind. -- Henri Bergson Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 8bit encoded headers wrongly displayed/deco ded (was: The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) is now available (ÄÖÜäöüß))
Hello Martin Sebald everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 11:28 you (Martin Sebald) wrote: Is there a bug listed in BT? I really would like to push it a little by posting also there. https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5199 -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) I suspect that most of us get old without growing up, and that inside every adult (sometimes not very far inside) is a bratty kid who wants everything his own way. (Bill Watterson) Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Vili, Am Thursday, October 20, 2005, 5:37:32 PM, schreibst du: Same applies for TB!. Just please believe me: 90% of the users are DUMB for computers like hell... They are not dumb in life. But PC does not fill their life, as fills people's at this list, they are kind people, etc. So, in the PC world, they must be... yes, controlled is the right word... Even if it is not a democratic way. John Doe Users don't even know that TheBat! exists! TheBat! is an email-client for experienced users who search for it and buy a licence being conscious about its functions and features. John Doe uses PMail, Outlook Express or Thunderbird but really not TheBat!. He would get slayed by the number of possible options and I doubt, that he would get i.e. IMAP working. Sorry, but that's nonsense. We are talking about an experienced eMail-Client for experienced users. regards, Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D Ich glaube, ein Mann will von einer Frau das gleiche wie eine Frau von einem Mann: Respekt. (Clint Eastwood) pgp4qUsL2Y8qg.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Vili everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 16:28 you (Vili) wrote: I dont argue with this statement. All I am saying is, that blaming IE or blaming TB! DOES make a difference... What if I open the message with Opera? Seeking who's to blame on the program side is wrong. The problem is usually about 60cm in front of the screen. The REAL problem is that if a legitimate message contains both embedded and remote images, you can't view the message correctly EITHER WAY. I can see the local images in TB, I can see the remote images in the browser, but I can't have both. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) I've been doing the Fonda workout: The Peter Fonda workout. That's where I wake up, take a hit of acid, smoke a joint, and go to my sister's house and ask her for money. -- Kevin Meaney Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Paul Van Noord everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 16:15 you (Paul Van Noord) wrote: MS There's no difference between opening the image via webbrowser and MS opening the image within the eMail-Client. There is a difference. A conscious effort must be made which provokes thought. Like clicking on a Show remote images button, and clicking on Yes when the Are you really sure security warning pops up. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Time wounds all heels. -- Groucho Marx Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Abstract Error on change of view mode (was: Re: The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) is now available)
Hello Greg Strong everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 16:50 you (Greg Strong) wrote: --- Abstract Error. --- Error occurs every time for me. Confirmed. Will you file a report on BT? -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Time is Nature's way of making sure that everything doesn't go wrong at once. Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/20/2005 11:53 AM Hi Alexander, On 10/20/2005 Alexander S. Kunz wrote: ASK Hello Paul Van Noord everyone else, ASK on 20-Okt-2005 at 16:15 you (Paul Van Noord) wrote: MS There's no difference between opening the image via webbrowser and MS opening the image within the eMail-Client. There is a difference. A conscious effort must be made which provokes thought. ASK Like clicking on a Show remote images button, and clicking on Yes when ASK the Are you really sure security warning pops up. I have seen way too many people never read a warning and just click for what they want. You have to experience it to believe it. They do pay more attention if another application opens. -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
10/20/2005 11:55 AM Hi Alexander, On 10/20/2005 Alexander S. Kunz wrote: ASK Hello Vili everyone else, ASK on 20-Okt-2005 at 16:28 you (Vili) wrote: I dont argue with this statement. All I am saying is, that blaming IE or blaming TB! DOES make a difference... ASK What if I open the message with Opera? Seeking who's to blame on the ASK program side is wrong. The problem is usually about 60cm in front of the ASK screen. ASK The REAL problem is that if a legitimate message contains both embedded and ASK remote images, you can't view the message correctly EITHER WAY. I can see ASK the local images in TB, I can see the remote images in the browser, but I ASK can't have both. Isn't this the foolishness of the message creator? Would you want Opera to work like IE? Me neither!! So lets not force TB to be like OE! -- Take Care, Paul The Bat! v.3.61.09 Echo (Beta) on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Michael Schneider everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 17:49 you (Michael Schneider) wrote: Sorry, but that's nonsense. We are talking about an experienced eMail-Client for experienced users. I am not so sure about that. A lot of newbie question are posted on TBUDL. If you think your grandma can't handle TB, it will be like that. If you just go and tell her use this, it'll probably work. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Mencken's Metalaw: For every human problem, there is a neat, simple solution; and it is always wrong. Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello Richard, A reminder of what Richard Chamberlain on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 13:25:43 GMT +0100 Obviously I should have spent longer with the demo than I did. Despite all I've said and at the risk of contradicting myself I would say no you shouldn't have. IMAP does not work for me but, because TB is so superior to everything else in all other areas I gave up on IMAP and reverted all my accounts to POP. There are still a plethora of bugs in all areas of TB workings but most don't affect me and the way I use TB. I still get the odd AV and no end of floating point errors but for the sake of microed and ALT+L I can live with them. Stick with it and see what happens. Mulberry is the definitive IMAP client, absolutely flawless in it's ability as an IMAP client. It has (had) the best support I've ever come across and it still went bankrupt, it is no more. If RitLabs continue with their money grabbing, bugger the users attitude then it can't be too long before they go the same way. Their product barely works and everyone on here will tell you support is all but non existent so something has to change. No business can survive with this much contempt for it's users... Well, maybe Microsoft :) -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello Stuart, A reminder of what Stuart Hemming on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 14:22:17 GMT +0100 This morning I've given up and installed ThunderBird. If that's not an example of lost revenue (even if it's future revenue) then I don't know what is. Exactly. How many multitudes that are not on this list that we don't hear about do the same? Fine if they don't like it and prefer lesser clients. But not fine for the sake of a proper debugging schedule. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Alexander, Am Thursday, October 20, 2005, 6:00:01 PM, schriebst du: I am not so sure about that. A lot of newbie question are posted on TBUDL. If you think your grandma can't handle TB, it will be like that. If you just go and tell her use this, it'll probably work. Well if a normal user got to TheBat! from someone who is used to it and got it installed and configured by this person, it's up to this person to assure the client is working securely. IMHO But we are going in circles if you ask me. regards, Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Die Musik drückt das aus, was nicht gesagt werden kann und worüber zu schweigen unmöglich ist. (Victor Hugo) PGP oder S/MIME-Verschlüsselung erwünscht! pgpPyKM73RpFk.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 9:37:19 AM, you wrote: If it's well said to tell customers to grab their money and take it away to other companies... just because /you/ think in other ways and argue with anchorless arguments? Don't know if this is the right way for Ritlabs. That's a decision RITLabs alone will have to make. In the short term, will it garner them some customers that they wouldn't have had otherwise? Possibly / Probably. In the long term can TB as the Secure E-mail Client afford to be lumped into the Outlook and Outlook Express category because it is now insecure due to the lack of user competence. I can relate first hand and know probably better than anyone on this list the feeling of wanting something included in TB but not having it due to RITLabs deciding to not implement. I worked very closely with 9val to build out the automatic downloading of roguemoticons and smileys. It was my baby, my project. I spent a great deal of time and energy building out the databases, the website, and promoting it on the lists to get people to use it. However, it was shot at by members of the list as making TB insecure, and RITLabs listened and shut that functionality down. After all the time and energy I put into it. But you know what? They were right to do it. It *did* make TB insecure. I thank the members of the list for bringing to light the vulnerability I was convincing RITLabs to put into their client, and I thank RITLabs for having the guts to stand by their guns and tell me 'No' for the greater good of the security and community that TB has built. If you want insecurity, there are many retarded e-mail clients out there that will give you what you want. Leave at least one e-mail client to those of us who appreciate the fact that RITLabs is doing the right thing and believe in making the internet safer despite the multitudes of clueless who get themselves infected, wormed, trojaned, spywared, and spammed and then blame it on the software because they don't know what they're doing. There are people on this list who live, eat, and breathe network, computer and software security. Listen to them. Some of us have been doing it for a very long time and might actually know what we're talking about. You yourself might be savvy enough to have inherent security holes in TB and know what to do to mitigate them. But for every one of you, there are ten who do not, and not many of them are going to blame their own stupidity when they get exploited. They'll blame TB, they'll post on message boards about how TB let them get infected, and how TB is a bad e-mail client. Can RITLabs afford to do that? I doubt it. We (the security minded people) are only asking for one secure e-mail client that has the power-user features we want. Just one. That's it. Let us have TB. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org Avoid temptation ... Unless you can't resist!! Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Paul Van Noord everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 17:57 you (Paul Van Noord) wrote: ASK The REAL problem is that if a legitimate message contains both ASK embedded and remote images, you can't view the message correctly ASK EITHER WAY. I can see the local images in TB, I can see the remote ASK images in the browser, but I can't have both. Isn't this the foolishness of the message creator? You can't change the world overnight. But you can adapt to the average stupidity of your fellow men. ;) Like, by having an *optional* function in a program to address that tiny little problem. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 9:49:40 AM, you wrote: John Doe Users don't even know that TheBat! exists! TheBat! is an email-client for experienced users who search for it and buy a licence being conscious about its functions and features. That would be a very incorrect statement. Mary Bull... Front and center please. Mary came to TB with very little knowledge of how e-mail and the internet worked. Mary isn't the only one. There are quite a few (see TBUDL). And the lists only represent a small fraction of the population using TB. Mary has come a long way since then. She's even a valuable asset to the community as far as I'm concerned, but when she first started using TB, she was *not* an experienced user. Sorry, but that's nonsense. We are talking about an experienced eMail-Client for experienced users. See above. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org If at first you don't succeed, redefine success. Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Vili, A reminder of what Vili on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 09:52:36 GMT -0400 Using offsite images, I put a just-for-you link to a picture. You check the offsite image. Bam. I know that your email is alive. And I start to flood you... He's talking about attached images, not links to images. For example if I send you a photo of my new born salt water alligator the image should appear in line about here like most other clients do it. Rather than having to save it first or use a separate image viewer. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Leif, Am Thursday, October 20, 2005, 6:10:02 PM, schriebst du: That would be a very incorrect statement. Mary Bull... Front and center please. Mary came to TB with very little knowledge of how e-mail and the internet worked. Mary isn't the only one. There are quite a few (see TBUDL). And the lists only represent a small fraction of the population using TB. Mary has come a long way since then. She's even a valuable asset to the community as far as I'm concerned, but when she first started using TB, she was *not* an experienced user. Go to a John Doe userboard on the internet and ask them about the eMail-Clients they know. If 5% answer TheBat! it would be great. Believe me. Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Bisexualität verdoppelt Deine Chancen auf ein Samstagabend-Rendezvous. (Woody Allen) pgp3cKl1jDzNz.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Paul Van Noord everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 17:55 you (Paul Van Noord) wrote: ASK Like clicking on a Show remote images button, and clicking on Yes ASK when the Are you really sure security warning pops up. I have seen way too many people never read a warning and just click for what they want. You have to experience it to believe it. They do pay more attention if another application opens. We could talk Ritlabs into making the warning message blinking in purple and blue, with white rabbits jumping all over the screen. Discussing this is turning in circles. The feature will come, I have no doubt about it. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Leif, thunderbird has to be most insecure eMail-Client on the world if someone is reading your message. Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Neues in Sachen Virenschutz: Das Festplattenkondom! pgpLaCKFI8P9u.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[3]: Offsite Images
Hello Paul, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 9:55:45 AM, you wrote: I have seen way too many people never read a warning and just click for what they want. You have to experience it to believe it. They do pay more attention if another application opens. Yeah, five years as a network administrator over a userbase of 3,000 has proven to me time and time again that no matter how much security I stick in front of them in terms of patches, firewalls, IDS, proxy servers, anti-virus, Altiris, and Websense, they still manage to figure out how to get themselves infected or spywared. They just don't care about the message in front of them, they just click 'OK' to get the dang little box out of their way. We even held user education classes but it doesn't work. It's just one more interruption in their day that's going to waste 30 min to an hour of their time. You know why most corporate users don't care about security? Because they know IT will come and fix their computer after they've thrashed it. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org All things in moderation, including Moderation! Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
On Thursday, October 20, 2005, 11:12:06 AM, Tony Boom wrote: He's talking about attached images, not links to images. For example if I send you a photo of my new born salt water alligator the image should appear in line about here like most other clients do it. Rather than having to save it first or use a separate image viewer. don't know due to what settings, but images show up here as a separate tab. just click on the tab, and there is the image. -- Dwight A. Corrin 928 S Broadway Wichita KS 67211 316.303.1411 fax 316.265.7568 dcorrin at fastmail.fm Using The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP version 5,1 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Stuart, A reminder of what Stuart Hemming on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 15:47:27 GMT +0100 I don't give a money's, if I want to turn it on, I should be allowed to. Forgive me for correcting you but it's Monkeys. As in I don't give a monkeys Uncle but then I think it may just be a blood group. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Abstract Error on change of view mode (was: Re: The Bat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) is now available)
Hello Greg, A reminder of what Greg Strong on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 09:50:24 GMT -0500 Error occurs every time for me. I concur. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello Alexander, A reminder of what Alexander S. Kunz on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 17:38:24 GMT +0200 ...because as soon as that happens, someone else would ask what about (Unicode|HTML templates|anything) support, I've been waiting for this so long! Then RL would say... We've only got as far as bug number 56, we'll get to your number 98 ASAP Much better than not getting aroundtuit at all in favour of a new gold plated four key combo dongle banger. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
You missed the obvious, go elsewhere...quickly! But I've paid for this. I want it to work sensibly. -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. Never lick a steak knife. pgpU0AA8MNfPl.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Please do not tamper with one of the significant positives of the TB for the sake of convenience or pleasure. FFS, it's a tool! It is /supposed/ to be convenient! -- Stuart Hemming Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Aided by BayesIt! 0.8.4, MyGate v1.0, rss2pop3 v1.2, SpamPal v1.70, MyMacros 1.11a. Esplanade (v.), to attempt an explanation while drunk. pgpqbzZ83pnAk.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 10:13:39 AM, you wrote: Go to a John Doe userboard on the internet and ask them about the eMail-Clients they know. If 5% answer TheBat! it would be great. So let's say we've got even less... How about .05% of the internet population (900 million or so) that tries TB. That's about 45,000 people. Let's say 95% of them are experienced users which leaves us with 2,250 of the clueless. I'm giving you the most benefit of the doubt here. I'm basically saying that out of 900 million or so internet users *only* 45,000 of them would install TB. Then again, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by saying that 95% of them are experienced enough and understand internet protocol and security enough to not open themselves up to a security hole. This leaves us with 2,250 who would. Tell you what... Do some reading on why the internet as a whole is considered a huge security sieve. You'll find the common denominator is that the internet was designed to be open. Security was an afterthought. RITLabs is building from the ground up with security as the forethought. I applaud them for it, and even though TB does have deficiencies in certain areas (IMAP), I will always be a loyal customer to RITLabs because they aren't writing just another piece of software to further the security nightmare that the internet is. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org You know you're getting old when you stop to tie your shoes and wonder what else you can do while you're down there. Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 10:06:07 AM, you wrote: Well if a normal user got to TheBat! from someone who is used to it and got it installed and configured by this person, it's up to this person to assure the client is working securely. IMHO So by promoting a secure client to people *because* we want not only want to help them be secure but to give them the tools to be secure, we are now indentured to their service for the remainder of our lives? Through every new release and patch, through every newly added piece of functionality? You've got to be joking. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org Cheap, Fast, Reliable -- pick two. Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: Offsite Images
Hello Michael, Thursday, October 20, 2005, 10:14:05 AM, you wrote: thunderbird has to be most insecure eMail-Client on the world if someone is reading your message. Ummm, because it was plain-text, because I didn't href any images, because Thunderbird performs the most basic functionality of an e-mail client which is to display my plaintext e-mail per RFC-822 You've lost me. -- TBUDL/BETA/DEV/TECH Lists Moderator / PGP 0x6C0AB16B __ Geocaching:http://gps.PCWize.com ( ) ( ___)(_ _)( ___) TBUDP Wiki Site: http://www.PCWize.com/thebat/tbudp )(__ )__) _)(_ )__) Roguemoticons Smileys:http://PCWize.com/thebat ()()()(__)PHP Tutorials and snippets:http://www.DevTek.org Shocked actors: cast aghast Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Dwight, A reminder of what Dwight A Corrin on TBBETA typed on: Thursday, October 20, 2005 at 11:29:44 GMT -0500 don't know due to what settings, but images show up here as a separate tab. just click on the tab, and there is the image. Exactly the opposite of what I'd like to happen. My Brother often sends me photo's with little comments and descriptions under each one. The whole context is completely lost when one has to keep switching tabs and trying to relate each comment to tab1. tab3 or tab4 etc. It's like having a newspaper or magazine consisting of 100% text with a separate booklet containing the photo's and having to match the photo to the article without the photo booklet containing any textual reference. I just don't see the advantage of displaying images in tab as opposed to in line. -- Tony. Using The Bat! v3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on a G5 iMac Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: hang on
Hello Tony Boom everyone else, on 20-Okt-2005 at 18:31 you (Tony Boom) wrote: Much better than not getting aroundtuit at all in favour of a new gold plated four key combo dongle banger. But I want one! And I want it now, or I'll go and use another email client! ;-) -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Deliplayer2 is playing: Lost Eden (6:02) by Asura from the album '3D Vision Relax Module 01' Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Leif, Am Thursday, October 20, 2005, 6:43:39 PM, schriebst du: thunderbird has to be most insecure eMail-Client on the world if someone is reading your message. Ummm, because it was plain-text, because I didn't href any images, because Thunderbird performs the most basic functionality of an e-mail client which is to display my plaintext e-mail per RFC-822 No, because it displays remote images if I want it. You must have missunderstood me (perhaps I tried to translate a german phrase 1:1 in english) Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Es kann passieren was will: Es gibt immer einen, der es kommen sah. (Marcel Pagnol) PGP oder S/MIME-Verschlüsselung erwünscht! pgpJPdYeZ7O8T.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hello Leif! On Thursday, October 20, 2005, 11:10 AM, you wrote: John Doe Users don't even know that TheBat! exists! TheBat! is an email-client for experienced users who search for it and buy a licence being conscious about its functions and features. This wasn't true for me. I was pointed to The Bat! from a mailing list that consisted chiefly of users of Outlook Express. I wanted to be able to look at my mail's senders on the server before downloading it. I had no vocabulary for that--like headers and server--but KlezH had just destroyed my sister's machine. So, I'd found MailWasher. But MailWasher with Outlook Express had a lag--by the time I had okayed the messages I wished to receive, sometimes there were more that I hadn't looked at and they came into Outlook Express without my having a chance to say yes or no. At Rootsweb's Anti-Virus Discussion List I got lucky. Two computer professionals who'd just acquired The Bat! were moderating the list. And they encouraged me to try it. The Mail Dispatcher is the reason why I will always stay with The Bat! The MicroEd is the icing on the cake for me. All the rest, I just stick around here testing because I've come to love the community of people on the TB! mailing lists. That would be a very incorrect statement. Mary Bull... Front and center please. Mary came to TB with very little knowledge of how e-mail and the internet worked. ... For very little read no knowledge. I barely knew how to use my computer and the OS Win95. ... Mary isn't the only one. There are quite a few (see TBUDL). And the lists only represent a small fraction of the population using TB. ... I fully agree with this point. ... Mary has come a long way since then. ... But I still learn something new every day here. ... She's even a valuable asset to the community as far as I'm concerned, but when she first started using TB, she was *not* an experienced user. Thanks for the kind words, Leif. It is true. I was not an experienced user of computers that could access the Internet. And I didn't do a systematic search for a safer e-mail client. (For a long, long time after I joined these lists I would puzzle to myself about what a client was in this context and what the initials MUA meant.) I was just lucky enough to run into Anne and Barry Morgan at a time that I was truly panicked about the vulnerabilities in Outlook Express, especially the preview pane which had let KlezH, and a worm that piggybacked in on it, onto my sister's machine. Sorry, but that's nonsense. We are talking about an experienced eMail-Client for experienced users. Not true. Or at least, not true for many users of The Bat!, like me. See above. Indeed. :thumbup: -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Offsite Images
Hi Leif, it's nice that you want to teach me. Really. But I don't need new teachers or preachers for the one and only religion. There are more than enough evangelists out there. There are more than enough wars out there about what OS is the best or about which office suite. I don't need another war about which eMail client and I don't need You to tell me what others should do and what not. I just need an eMail client which gives me the free choice how to handle on my own things because it's my decision. I can run daily work as root if I like to. I should not do it, but I can if I think I have to. I can lock up my home when I'm leaving or I can leave it just closed but not locked. Also I'm able to turn off every security option in my webbrowser and allow every site everything if I'm happy with it. It's _my_ decision - not _yours_. Configure /your/ email-client like you want to and let others do it /their/ way. Even experienced users (for myself I'm on the net for about 9 years now and I'm on my Master of Information Technology in Management) demand the mentioned feature if you see. If you don't want it. It's ok. Don't use it. Turn it off. But don't begin to evangelise others with your point of view. No offence but I'm tired of listening to self-proclaimed evangelists who want me to do like they're thinking the world would be better. I have been working for nearly 8 years with OS/2, I was happy and my system was rock solid. But the same old sayings over and over again. Very annoying. Now I'm using Windows for business and software development because customers want to run the software on Windows machines. Now I have to read daily some guys who want to change over to linux - regardless if I need Windows for my work or not. Or they want to tell me that I need another IDE or whatever. I can assure you: I know perfectly what is good for me. What I need. How I have to handle things. And if there are 2250 people who can not decide which eMail they can trust - it's neither my fault nor my problem. You would have to turn the whole Internet off to save them from themselves. Even if you code them an email-client that can just display 7bit-encoded emails in a shell without any possibility of clicking on links, opening attachments or whatever. Michael -- Jabber [EMAIL PROTECTED] - OpenPGP 0xE59FD50D TheBat! 3.61.13 Echo (Beta) - Windows XP (Service Pack 2 Build 2600) Der Mann trägt die Jahre in den Knochen, die Frau im Gesicht. pgpEkgSPXuecI.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.61.13 (Echo) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
