Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

you should return to trisquel too,  I think i will as well.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

you should return to trisquel too.  we all should.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

I missed his post the first time too.  So looks like trisquel is alive and  
well.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

yes getting all the forum posters here to use it is the first step haha.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

I can't even convince fsf ones :(

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

if thats the case you might have to switch to chromium or firefox.   rest of  
the system should get security patches till 2019 I would think.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

what do you mean no security updates?  It just gets them a day late,  its  
good till 2019.  I used to just wait a day to use trisquel if it was serious  
then update the next day.


 Go to https://www.ubuntu.com/usn/  and then compare your version of the  
file.or apt log if it applies to trisquel. I don't have trisquel  
installed anymore either cause I'm doing steam gaming now.   But I doubt that  
would have changed, unless it broke.


The browsers might be a diff story.  If they aren't getting updated you might  
have to just change to something more mainstream.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

At least if you use Guix (no need to use the entire GuixSD), GNU IceCat
has a beta update to version 45, see:

 and also .

I'm using it now, with GNU LibreJS also.


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[jah]

This is a useful tip! Thank you.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[legimet . calc]

Right now, I think Abrowser is getting updates. But IceCat is based on the  
outdated and unsupported Firefox 38, and hasn't received an update in 5  
months. So don't use IceCat. You could probably replicate the privacy  
features in Abrowser with extensions and changes in about:config.
Also, if you're using Tor, I would advise to only use the Tor Browser Bundle  
for the maximum anonymity. Using anything else (like IceCat's built-in Tor  
functionality) would probably change your fingerprint. This is fine, of  
course, if you don't care about anonymity that much.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

thats crazy.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

if you say so.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[legimet . calc]

There are times when Abrowser doesn't receive security updates for months.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

^ exactly.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

you can't use ppa's with debian. usually doesn't work right.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

debian stable is no different.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

You go here man,  and verify you get the updated package a day later.   
https://www.ubuntu.com/usn/

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

abrowser is fkn awesome.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

https://www.ubuntu.com/usn/

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

basing it on debian would defeat the purpose of trisquel, why not just use  
debian like you already do?

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cooloutac]

haha crazy this thread to turned into fixing a bug, I skipped over the FSF  
philosophy part. but other then that great thread!


  I left Trisquel myself a while ago for debian stable.  The reason was  
mostly for steam gaming.  I'm not a 100% free only guy sorry.   But Trisquel  
is still good for 2019 I don't see why leave if people are?   It still gets  
the security updates,  just a day late.  So i would always check the ubuntu  
security page and if its serious not use trisquel for a day if anything.


But the reason I like trisquel so much is because it was the only iso where I  
could use Grsec with the linux-libre kernel and it would complain about  
nothing.   Loved that trisquel was using gnome flashback desktop,  everything  
about it.  To the fact that even the network logs were noise free unlike  
anything I've ever used.


But I as well never felt comfortable about Ruben being non existent,  or most  
of the community members not even using trisquel themselves,  Including the  
two devs like Ruben who use debian.  Community members trying to constantly  
change the project to something else.  like basit it on something else,   
change the DE and the login manger and so on, etc.So is everyone  
moving to debian not a surprise to me, or Ruben disappearing,  no of course  
not,  because it was encouraged.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[legimet . calc]

Blob is a git-related term:  
https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Internals-Git-Objects

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mo98]

 Copyright (C) 1989, 1991 Free Software Foundation, Inc.,
 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA
 Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies
 of this license document, but changing it is not allowed.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[infinityfallen]

Cheers to that!

I am unfortunately very time-poor and absolutely useless at software  
development and drawing and so on, but I'm happy to offer my services for  
anything that would need to be done.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mo98]

Thanks. I've got my work cut out for me.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mo98]

I always mount from bash using it with -ro option. I avoid using the gui  
which doesn't ask how to mount any drives and exposes me to inadvertently  
mounting anything in sight. Changing directories with the nautilus gui or  
from the shell using cd command always works. It is the chdir command from a  
compiled C program that causes problems when navigating into a directory  
where the exfat device is mounted to.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[legimet . calc]

It is GPL: https://github.com/relan/exfat

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mo98]

I'll check the licence and see if I can make sense of the source code.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[legimet . calc]

But fuse-exfat exists, and it is free.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mo98]

The commonly available digital camera I have records and deletes and formats  
the fuse-exFat system reasonably well most of the time. If the code for the  
exFat system is proprietary, at least the code for accessing the data should  
be made free. I do not disrespect proprietary formats, but there are unknown  
issues with it. I simply believe that a free version should at some time be  
available in a main repository that guarantees accessibility even with a  
chdir command from within a compiled C directory changer program.
I am a Trisquel 6.0 user who came from Ubuntu 12.04 after being unable to use  
Alt-tab properly with Ubuntu if it included the bash terminal there.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[legimet . calc]

Why would you want a read-only version of fuse-exfat if it now supports  
writing?

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mo98]

After reviewing the four fundamental freedoms of libre software, from Richard  
Stallman's 3rd edition, I feel it is a bit of a distraction to see so much  
being made about Trisquel being behind other distros. If the latest security  
holes relate to CODECS and conveniences then maybe I am also guilty for non  
participation. I read about fuse exfat and learned that early version were  
read-only. I could only install full featured fuse-exfat from Ubuntu's deb  
files into Trisquel, and it is by no means reliable. I don't complain because  
that is the only way to extract files from a digital camera when fitted with  
a 64GB or larger SD card. When I tried suggesting in a Ubuntu forum that a  
stable read-only version should also be made available, I was, for some  
reason, no longer able to log in to their forum. In that sense, Trisquel is  
far from being dead in my world.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[dguthrie]

OK, but it's your computer. You do what you like to it.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[legimet . calc]

https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Don.27t_make_a_FrankenDebian

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[dguthrie]

If I recall virt-manager is available. This is easier to use in my opinion  
than qemu manager (from which I could never manage to launch VMs).
I think with Wine you should install the latest version anyway as support  
keeps improving even for old programs. This is a problem with Trisquel too  
being outdated although PPAs make it easier. At any rate PPAs are just an apt  
repository hosted on Canonical's servers so can be used with Debian too  
somehow.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[greatgnu]

I don't use wine. I prefer whiskey. In 18 months of Debian stable Xfce (first  
7 and then 8) I had 0 bugs on 7 and 2 bugs on 8 (tumbler mem leak which is a  
known Xfce bug, and pulse audio issues easily solved with an apt purge  
pulseudio). Never a bug, never a crash or whatsoever. Stable and reliable  
like Jack Daniels ^^

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[calmstorm]

Possibly true but there are a few things missing, such as qemu launcher and  
also, I ran into some buggy irritations with wine and winetricks.


And I forget if there is anything else, regardless though, I wonder when  
trisquel 8 will be out.


I imagine near December at worst and at best September.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[dguthrie]

What issues are these? I have always found Debian to work fine whereas  
Ubuntu-based distributions always have minute problems no one knows how to  
fix or are not aware of. Usually when people have problems with Debian it is  
not understanding some option in the installer or not understanding how to do  
some task without a GUI program (which they haven't installed).

Regardless Trisquel works great most of the time.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[calmstorm]

I may just return because debian has issues with certain things that trisquel  
doesn't...


also, abrowser I noticed was updated recently, to ver 47...
but also, I gave up on trisquel almost too soon...

I still had one computer on trisquel right? well both will return to it very  
soon...

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[onpon4]

Debian doesn't have the "Universe"/"Multiverse" distinction. Only main,  
non-free, and contrib.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mcz]

Thanks, looks like one solid way to figure things out. I'll also try to  
figure out how Debian deals with that (does it have a Universe repo, does it  
have security updates, what's the point of the Universe repo, etc.)

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[jason]

VLC and Westnoth may not be the best examples because they do get security  
updates (An example being VLC version 2.1.6-0ubuntu14.04.2 and Westnoth  
1:1.10.7-1ubuntu0.14.04.1, both of are available from security despite living  
in Universe.) Keep in mind security doesn't mean the latest available  
version. Similar to Debian if a security issue is found in VLC or Westnoth  
that fix can be backported, assuming that the fix even impacts that specific  
version in the first place (it may not, and if so renders the issue moot over  
that particular security issue.)

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mcz]

I see, so this weakness is supposed to be counterbalanced with the updates  
(so non LTS versions).


Well, I guess taking into account how few GNU/Linux users exist, a few  
obscure security breaches isn't as problematic as more juicy targets like  
Windows and Mac. I mean Trisquel as-is is still ok.


Personally, I don't see enough positive difference between Debian and Ubuntu  
though.
Well, that's one more argument for Debian as the direct base of Trisquel in  
the future.

Unless Debian is affected as well.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[dguthrie]

Maybe it is because Canonical don't make this clear at download, and at any  
rate a typical first-time user is just going to get on with it and not  
complain as they might not understand how repositories work or the importance  
of security updates.
I have seen it mentioned a couple of times, especially on various computer  
security-focuesed forums. One forum topic was about some person's outrage at  
the 'betrayal' by Canonical. Whatever...
The experienced users more likely to know about this generally use the latest  
Ubuntu release, which is updated every six months, but the people who are  
more likely to use LTS are less likely to know or care or understand.
Also Canonical can't be bothered; so that is the biggest reason why they  
don't publicise this as it would give them bad press and might alarm  
potential customers to data-mine in Unity desktop (o.k., they don't do this  
anymore "by default" (although they could if they were evil) but whatever)).

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mcz]

I see. So basically it's the same as Ubuntu, minus clarification in  
/etc/apt/sources.list.


That means VLC doesn't have updates on Ubuntu either?
How come nobody cares on Ubuntu's side?

Thanks for the info.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[dguthrie]

> Oh, I see. But how can you be sure that it's not only the main repo, and  
instead a mix of main and universe?


Because they are distinct sections in Synaptic package manager. Packages like  
Wesnoth and VLC are under "universe" (same as in Ubuntu) while packages like  
GNU Coreutils are under "main". Check yourself and you will see.

Yet in /etc/apt/sources.list, no mention of "universe" is made as you saw.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[legimet . calc]

I think you still aren't understanding root_vegetable's point. In Ubuntu,  
there are two repository components consisting of (for the most part) free  
software, main and universe. These are the components that Trisquel gets its  
packages from. The distinction between main and universe is that main is  
officially supported and universe isn't. But in Trisquel these packages are  
dumped into a single repository, main, so you can't tell which ones are  
officially supported and which aren't. However, synaptic and muon somehow  
show the distinction.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mcz]

Oh, I see. But how can you be sure that it's not only the main repo, and  
instead a mix of main and universe?

What's the proof(s) that main is only main, or some mix up?

Not trying to be confrontational btw, just trying to learn how all this  
works.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[dguthrie]

Yes, exactly!

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[legimet . calc]

Yeah, because Trisquel removes the distinction between main and universe and  
puts everything in main. That's root_vegetable's point.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mcz]

Agreed, but I just want to be sure of it.

So Ubuntu and Trisquel have both Universe and Main.
Universe doesn't have security updates.
If true, why keep it? Can I just remove it manually?
And if so, It should be a good idea to submit that to the devs.

But in my file, I haven't found the word universe:
# deb http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ belenos main
# deb http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ belenos-updates main
# deb http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel belenos-security main
# See http://trisquel.info/wiki/ for how to upgrade to
# newer versions of the distribution.
deb http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ belenos main
deb-src http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ belenos main
deb http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ belenos-updates main
deb-src http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ belenos-updates main
deb http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ belenos-security main
deb-src http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ belenos-security main
# Uncomment this lines to enable the backports optional repository
# deb http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ belenos-backports main
# deb-src http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ belenos-backports main

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[dguthrie]

What I am saying is that the way that Trisquel puts both "universe" and  
"main" into a single repository (look at the /etc/apt/sources.list file) that  
then shows up as "universe" and "main" in Synaptic is strange.


We get updates from Ubuntu but it is reliant on Canonical providing updates.  
This is a different issue from the above, but "universe" does not get  
security updates, which is not clear, either from Trisquel or Ubuntu. I think  
it is important to warn people, especially those intending to run Trisquel  
for important work etc.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mcz]

Is it the same "Universe", or is it just a different naming convention  
(albeit confusing indeed, if that's the case)?
Because one thing is clear, Universe or main, we get updates anyway, if I'm  
not mistaken.
All I found for now is this, which doesn't answer this precisely:  
https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/how-trisquel-made


As a side note, I find weird that a repo exists without security updates  
(that "Universe" from Ubuntu).

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[dguthrie]

It's confusing and is not transparent. Security updates also pass by Universe  
which is bad, especially for servers. So, for instance, VLC might have a  
permission escalation exploit in its media library but would never get  
patched.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mcz]

I'm not sure I understand :
"universe" repo appears in Synaptic in Trisquel while "main" is the one  
updated in Ubuntu?

And you can't know how often the packages are updated?

So what? I mean, what's the big deal?

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[dguthrie]

Some people have mentioned security updates, or rather seemingly lack of  
them.
As far as I can tell you synchronise the packages with Ubuntu according to  
templates you have created which gets rid of the nonfree packages. However,  
it isn't clear how often this is done. Another concern is that Ubuntu does  
not provide security updates to "universe" repositories, just "main", which  
is made up of some 7000 or so packages. Trisquel does not separate the  
repositories in the same manner as Ubuntu (from what appears in the  
/etc/apt/sources.list file), although in Synaptic Package Manager "universe"  
repositories appear. This is strange and confusing even for someone familiar  
with how Debian apt repositories work. So I cannot tell how up-to-date my  
Trisquel installation is.
I do not use Trisquel now unfortunately although it was for other reasons  
before this. But I feel sad for the project as I like these forums. I hope  
the project does not go the way of BLAG or gNewSense.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[megver83]

Yes, I relatively agree with you. I was looking for another option to  
Trisquel like Parabola, it´s rolling release (you don´t have to wait 2  
years for a new version like Trisquel) and it has very updated packages + it  
supports ARM 

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mve1]

Thanks for the pointers Supertramp83, HKR and CentaurX00!

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[adfeno]

One thing that was somehow surprising was seeing the wide one-liner in the  
donation page that represents its history. But that's OK since one can use  
less to view it instead of gedit.


I thought the site used Semantic MediaWiki. But I guess that keeping the  
current approach is also a good thing.


I did some quick search and it's possible to use some Semantic MediaWiki  
features to sum the donation amounts (of course it might also have  
drawbacks), see this:


https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Sum_format

https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Custom_units

https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Type_Quantity

https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Currency

https://github.com/SemanticMediaWiki/SemanticMediaWiki/issues/1529

https://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Type_Number

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[adfeno]

I just found the possible cause of the bug.

It seems that the donations page has the thousands units separated from the  
hundreds by a comma (","). It's OK, but if one tries to use this with awk, it  
doesn't like it and simply discards it. It was quite a puzzle actually, but  
it came to my knowledge when I tried to sum the USD donations with "dc"  
command.


The "dc" command complained that a certain input number was invalid due to  
the commas, and there was only one input number with such character.


Then I decided to try to modify the financial information table builder a  
little. It stays exactly the same as the one in that page, and most  
differences are aesthetic, the main functional difference can be found only  
on how the "amount" variable is set/defined (previously, it simply took the  
amount with commas, now these are removed).


Here is the new financial information table builder (if you are seeing this  
in the mailing lists or with an email client, check if no extra line breaks  
were made):


#!/bin/bash

cat 

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[legimet . calc]

That copyright file that everybody points to is automatically generated. Of  
course it couldn't find everything! But now if you now look at the copyright  
file, located at  
http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//main/c/chromium-browser/chromium-browser_51.0.2704.79-1_copyright  
and run the following command:


 $ grep License: chromium-browser_51.0.2704.79-1_copyright | sort | uniq

there is nothing there with an unknown license.

Also, why is Chromium given this much scrutiny as opposed to other packages  
with large codebases like, say, Firefox? There are a few nonfree files or  
files without source code in the firefox source package. You can see a list  
of them in the Debian source package in the file debian/source.filter (these  
files are unimportant and can simply be removed, as Debian does) and I am  
copying the list here:


other-licenses/7zstub/firefox/7zSD.sfx
toolkit/mozapps/update/updater/macbuild/Contents/Resources/English.lproj/MainMenu.nib/keyedobjects.nib
toolkit/mozapps/update/updater/macbuild/Contents/PkgInfo
config/makedep.exe
intl/unicharutil/tools/data/case.dat
intl/unicharutil/tools/data/cmbcl.dat
intl/unicharutil/tools/data/ctype.dat
intl/unicharutil/tools/data/decomp.dat
intl/unicharutil/tools/data/num.dat
netwerk/protocol/ftp/doc/rfc959.txt
layout/doc
content/xml/tests
image/test/reftest/pngsuite-transparency
image/test/reftest/reftest.list /pngsuite-transparency/d
build/pgo/blueprint/valid.png
addon-sdk/source/examples/annotator/data/jquery-1.4.2.min.js
addon-sdk/source/examples/reddit-panel/data/jquery-1.4.4.min.js

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mcz]

I tried the update through the configuration panel (Full Trisquel install,  
only added Gnome Shell).
While I didn't have an automatic prompt, it worked that way for me (and on  
the cli).


Outdated packages is "normal", it's part of the bargain.
As long as the vital bugs are fixed, it's ok for me.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[legimet . calc]

https://hub.docker.com/r/kpengboy/trisquel/

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[ewlabonte]

So is Ubuntu 14.04.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[vitacell]

Trisquel is dying, some bugs still not fixed, autoupdater crashes, some  
packages are outdated. This is one of the best free software distro, and hope  
it survives. This is a lot of work for very few persons.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[debianlinux]

the goal for trisquel is to get the first position
now it is in 89, something has to be done
89 mean nobody use trisquel, even the first isn't much considering the gap  
between windows and mac os vs gnu/linux
and for what I can read, here in the forum very few people use trisquel...we  
talking about something almost nobody use
and the reason is that trisquel isn't mantained like a fsf main distro has to  
be

at this point i'm asking about fsf heath status...

young skilled fellow, rise up trisquel

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[Ignacio Agulló]

great...@riseup.net, Sáb 16 Xul 2016 14:08:12 CEST:

Why? the GNU distro that the FSF uses for its servers, that minifree  
and Thinkpenguin install by default (and that is practically the  
only distro one can recommend to newbs) - why does it depend on just  
one single person? Could it really be that the FSF can not find and  
designate two volunteers to assure the continuity of the project?


 I have been following the discussion, and I read that the launch  
of a new Trisquel LTS (which happens once every two years) is  
depending on a single person working as a volunteer for eight days.   
Furthermore, I read that this eight days are not in a row spanning two  
weeks, but sparsed one work day for every week - which delays the  
completion in six weeks.


 At that moment my thought was, what about the donations?  I went  
to the trisquel.info donations page (which is keen on transparency and  
list all of the donations) and added all the donations in the last two  
years.  These are the results in the different currencies:


262 AUD
2,577.81 €
4,504.60 $
300 CZK
20 ILS
151 CAD
378 £
330 MXN
412 CHF
550 SEK
200 NOK
1000 JPY
20 NZD
15 SGD

 Certainly it is not an amount of money that can pay a single  
developer for two years - but then, not even eight days?  What would  
be the amount of money that would Trisquel need?



Ignacio Agulló · agu...@ati.es


This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[john_harvey]

"Teaching about freedom is not much use if there is no free OS that people  
can actually install."


I would like to underscore this point. It is basic.

I'm a layman; a novice GNU/linux user who supports the premise of libre OS.

How can I reach out to friends to tell them about Trisquel, and encourage  
them to try it when the system isn't "user friendly" enough to use?


I'm able to persevere with Trisquel because 1. I have the time to  
troubleshoot the basics and 2. because of the great support and patience of  
members of the forum.   If I didn't have either I could not consider  
Trisquel, and for now I have to direct novices towards Ubuntu as alternative  
to Mac or Windows because it "just works".


-Zem

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cjpaperbond]

Totally agree, we must have a Trisquel Users Board, as soon as possible...

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[cjpaperbond]

You can become a translator by going to the Documentation and clicking on  
Translate on any of the docs.

I'll attach some screenshots so you can see...

And if you mean translator for software, since Libre Software is not one but  
many. You can use these sites for translating programmes (localisation)


https://launchpad.net/
http://pootle.translatehouse.org/index.html
http://zanata.org/

I've helped translate projects like Tor, Midori, MATE over the years... I  
hope this is useful for you! :D

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mkl80]

I know something about regular expression in bash I may say.
About the translation how is it done. I mean I can translate the pages I see  
in site from let's say english to Portuguese ( i may add that Portuguese from  
Portugal is the real Portuguese wich I speak and write) and too whom I should  
send the Translations when they are done? How this process works?

I am really interested in contribute at least for now at this level!
Thanks in advance  

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[jatsi]

This was also true for me 2001 - 2008 before I knew about the FSF and it's  
work and didn't have freedom compatible machine.


So I began to work my way to freedom. I went Trisquel + non-free kernel for a  
year, because GPU and WiFi. I then bought a free WiFi, and then finally few  
years later could ignore the GPU firmware. I'm still not RYF'able, but some  
day I will.


I think it's better to support and use a fully free distro base with those  
non-free that one absolutely has to have, than to go with a proudly non-free  
distro.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[ewlabonte]

Most gnu/linux users are more interested in getting their hardware to work  
than in using a totally libre distro.I was like that for the first few years  
as a gnu/linux user, but now the kernel is so good at supporting hardware, I  
have not problem. Libre is better.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[gaming4jc2]

If you want to help with development, the documentation is here:
https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/development-0

And the source code is here:
https://devel.trisquel.info/groups/trisquel

You can try to get pull requests from git that ruben can import and save him  
some time, but afaik everything still goes through him before being pushed.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[greatgnu]

I had a very strange dream last night. In my dream people called me senor  
Robotto and I was a kickass hacker. Last thing I remember before waking up is  
I was writing the last lines of code for my very special new distro - in the  
dream I referred to it as Trisquelian9. It was Debian main stripped of  
contrib and nonfree, with a nice, clean installer that never recommends any  
proprietary firmware in no case whatsoever. :)

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[nowaman]

HKR has many great and important points!

I used to participate on another GNU/Linux distro earlier, which was even  
smaller than Trisquel and a one-leader-project.


My participation was mainly hanging on the forum and helping people out with  
their issues, but I also did some packages (PKGBUILDs).


The leader was basically doing all the work, desicions and inclusions of our  
"incoming" pkgbuilds to the official repo. He a new family, a paywork and  
all. And us, a one-handful of contributors live all in different countries.


I would also love to see some sort of hierarchy or organization here, which  
would take some of the pressure off of Quidam's shoulders. The project is  
quite heavy for one man to carry. I highly appreciate Trisquel and Quidam's  
work and would feel sad if the project dries out. We the people need an  
active Libre operating system project. I say this not to dispute or compare  
all other important FSF/FSM issues, but to suggest they tie together. It's  
essential to point people to an easy migration to Free Software world.


Sure there's Debian main, but I don't know if that's enough.

As I don't feel myself as a skillful programmer (yet), my easiest bid would  
be financial support. I believe many of us could afford to budget a fixed %  
of our monthly surplus to donations, be it 1% or 0.5%.


Sure I could participate in translations and document cleanups as well. I  
speak Finnish(native), English and Esperanto.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mcz]

This makes sense. I mean, the alert system should at least not let such lack  
of updates go unnoticed for too long, but if there's only one maintainer who  
can intervene, that's indeed a problem.


That is, IF that's how it is right now (I have no idea).

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[gaming4jc2]

You forgot that the FSF also has to spend a ton of money on union dues.  
(Rough estimate per worker: https://i.imgur.com/WXj2Hzz.jpg )

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mkl80]

Give me one I and start tranlating to Portuguese this very week. Seriously I  
want to contribute!

I'll send the translation to you as i do it. when we could start?

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[universlibre]

Yes, if you can translate into another language some manual it would be cool  
! Thinks :-)


However I think English manual need major clean up and big reorganization  
before make new translation.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mkl80]

In the future I would like to commit to help, but today I think I do not met  
the prerequisites for what i want in the future: be a developer. I am using  
gnu/linux about 2/3 years from now and still learning programming language (  
I know fair of C, and just started with bash shell). So in this field i think  
i need some time to construct some foundations.
But i can do some translation work. I know spanish , Portuguese (my mother  
language) and english, and some french. 

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[davidpgil]

I'd definitely be down for helping out with Trisquel. I am only a beginner/  
intermediate developer and new to Trisquel and GNU/Linix (since last year).  
Where do i ask? 

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[tegskywalker]

I actually posted that prior to reading his response that was kinda lost in  
the replies. It as in response to your original post.


Not that it matters since every time I post, there's always someone there to  
downvote it and make hidden.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

Rubén does still work in the project, from time to time, but he does.

He told me on IRC, and probably told here also, that he does reserve a
day to work on the project.

Besides, people tend to think that maintaining or even making a
free/libre system distribution is such an easy task such as to diminish
the work already done by asking "the real difference". When, in fact,
free/libre system distributions have, administratively speaking, not
only technical variables to care for, but also philosophical ones. Once
you read the GNU FSDG and start realizing that "I would have to do this
to 45.000 packages or so, manually???", you start to see how big the
difference is.

ZFS is free software, but the copyright holders choose a license that
complicates things. You can redistribute ZFS but only in source code
form, not compiled/built. However, one must note that ZFS was announced
to be included as a *kernel module* only near the release of Ubuntu
16.04, and Trisquel 8 is based on Ubuntu 14.04, see:

https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/02/16/zfs-is-the-fs-for-containers-in-ubuntu-16-04/

There are some packages such as "zfs-fuse" that make ZFS available, but
they are made so as to work on *user level*, not built in combination
with the kernel, these *user level* packages allow one to use ZFS with
part of the license conflicts solved, at the expense of speed while
using it):

http://packages.trisquel.info/belenos/zfs-fuse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS#Linux

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS#Linux_FUSE

As for Chromium, it seems more like open source right now, since there's
no known free/libre system distribution that includes it, or because
there's no approved entry on the Free Software Directory, see:

http://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Chromium

https://www.parabola.nu/packages/?sort==chromium==

http://archive.gnewsense.org/gnewsense/pool/main/c/ (try looking for it
here with your browser's "search" function)

https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdfilter=chromium=1_id=0 
(getChromium is different from Chromium)

Also, it seems that there's a GNU FSDG issue involving Chromium:

https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/140

However, you can use Iridium instead:

http://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Iridium


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Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mcz]

Again, it's not only about normal updates. The default browser wasn't  
maintained for months, which is a huge problem for unsuspecting users. It  
seems it's because the automated process was a bit too strict (not a bad  
thing in itself), and is going to be fixed.


And it's been mentioned several times that most people here understand that  
it takes time and effort.


On the the theme of decentralized maintenance:
I don't know how it's currently done, and how it differs from other distros.
I know that I can participate, and communication on IRC between maintainers  
seems to work. I know that there are Trisquel mirrors as well.

So, like you, I don't really understand the problem here.
Care to elaborate, anyone?
Is it at the decision level that it's problematic?

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[calmstorm]

I would agree that he has a life, but I also think Ruben needs more help and  
quite honestly, I don't know where I would find help. heh.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[dadix]

Well, if you guys want more peoples work for free to Trisquel,I give you a  
solution !


Just find gnu/linux developers and convince them to join Trisquel developers  
team. 

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[gromobir]

@t3g: I don't think that Ruben is giving us some kind of "attitude" here.  
It's just that he seems to be a bit overwhelmed and, to be honest, I would  
definitely feel the same if I were the sole maintainer of such an important  
distribution. It's not like he let's us all wait on purpose. It's just that  
life keeps people busy... Furthermore, he took the time to answer and even  
started to fix things already. He wouldn't do that if he wouldn't care for  
Trisquel.


@SalmanMohammadi: Thank you for getting my point. Until recently, I had no  
idea how to change the way this distribution is maintained while keeping  
everyone happy at the same time. Maybe a "Trisquel Users Board" can be the  
solution. However, as it stands for now, Ruben would have to be the one  
initiating such a board. I don't see any way to solve this without him and I  
would love to see him working with the community on a more decentralized  
version of Trisquel. Other people's forking initiatives I've seen here in the  
past just have the potential to divide us even further, IMHO.


@Ruben: What do you say? Does it sound like a plan to you to establish a more  
decentralized approach (in whatever shape or form)?

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[tegskywalker]

So basically the FSF would rather spend its resources in being political than  
give a helping hand to a distribution that follows their ideals. Shouldn't  
the deployment and continued growth of free software that you can run freely  
on your server carry some weight? Especially in modern times with "cloud"  
servers that only deploy operating systems like Ubuntu with their restricted  
and multiverse repos enabled by default. I'd love to see Trisquel in a Docker  
image (Docker is free software) or as an option on something like Digital  
Ocean or Rackspace.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[tegskywalker]

I can get by in the Tor browser in Ubuntu 16.04 (which doesn't use the Cisco  
OpenH264) by installing the ffmpeg or libav package. I think it was the same  
on that Totem had me install when playing an .mp4 file for the first time  
that used the H.264 video codec.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[tegskywalker]

I have to agree with the original poster. This distribution peaked around  
2010/2011 and hasn't been the same since. It looks worse than before (which  
can be fixed with MATE if they still want a classic look) and communication  
between Ruben and the community is at an all time low. He works for the FSF,  
yet cannot find time for his FSF endorsed distro.


The attitude he has of keeping us all waiting for a release needs to stop.  
Especially when he doesn't release any updated ISOs during the lifetime of a  
major release. They get horribly outdated to the point where some people  
cannot even install due to fixes made upstream by the Ubuntu point release  
ISOs being ignored by Trisquel.


Besides the curation of a few packages, what is he real difference between  
Ubuntu and Trisquel if someone only enables the main and universe repos, uses  
the Linux Libre kernel, and purges the linux-firmware package? There has been  
some questionable removals of free software from Trisquel like Chromium and  
the ZFS packages that are removed on fanboys and misinformation.


I don't blame you if you want to leave.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[jason]

"The fsf receives every year a substantial amount of money as an income."

Ha! I don't know which FSF you're looking at. $450,000 (okay, they ended at  
$461,000 at their last fundraiser)? For a staff of 12 people? That works out  
to about $38,416 per person. That's not a lot in the U.S. And it's even less  
if you add more people like you want to do. And that doesn't include office  
expenses like rent and whatever other costs there may be to keep the office  
going. Or running the LibrePlanet conference. I understand that MIT donates  
the space but it can't all be free. And other operational expenses throughout  
the year.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[jadedml]

Oh sweet Korean Jesus, complain, complain, complain.

"We need a user board," "Ruben should spend more time on Trisquel," "when is  
8 coming out," "it's all going downhill," "we need a blog post,"  
yada-yada-yada...


This is all stuff we've heard before, discussion about it goes nowhere.

We need a user board!-- Participate in development. Nothing is stopping you.

When is 8 coming out?!-- Be patient.

It's all going downhill!-- Trisquel 8's taking just about as long as it took  
Trisquel 7. Nothing's going downhill, at least development-wise. Some pretty  
radical things have happened with packaging, judging by the last blog post.  
This forum is also alive, active, and very well.


We need blog updates! It'd only take ten minutes to write!-- It wouldn't take  
much time to write a post, but Jesus, what's the point? The overall sentiment  
seems to be "We need more communication," when the amount of communication  
has been the same since Trisquel 6 and it hasn't mattered until now. All of  
sudden, this is a problem and people are freaking out. Really, just be  
patient.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[sitereg]

Unfortunately I have to say all of you (except Mzee) have failed to see the  
main *source* of the problem. The problem is not why Ruben invest less time  
on the project than before, the main problem is *why does Trisquel depend on  
one person?*


I suppose we need something like *Trisquel Users Board*.

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[universlibre]

You don't need an authorization from somebody to translate the Wiki. You  
translate it. And if you want, you can ask people on forum to read it again.


For the french documentation we use Framavox(loomio) to speak about some  
manual and other thing like how rewrite the manual in order to avoid disorder  
on it and ...

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[gromobir]

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to this thread and also  
for taking the time to fix the update scripts again. Well done! Maybe, in  
this context, I should change the title of this thread to something less  
intimidating in order to continue to enable a fruitful base for discussions.  
Does anyone know how I could do that?


Even though Ruben has now taken the time to enable updates again, I still  
don't consider this to be a permanent solution. The time will come when life  
will throw stones at you again and we'll end up without a maintained  
distribution again. Wouldn't it be a much better solution to distribute all  
the workload on different shoulders? That would take a lot of work and  
responsibility from you, Ruben. Any thoughts how this could be achieved?

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[mcz]

Today I could dedicate most of my day to Trisquel and fixed some problems  
with the repo management that were preventing updates to be pushed. I also  
started to work on fixing the bugs in the Firefox > Abrowser package helper  
that are preventing new versions of the browser to be published.

-
Additionally, an important tasks that needs to be done is to set up an alert  
system that checks for all automated services to work as expected.

Sounds great, thanks for all this.
100% free, and 100% reliable/secure, what's more to ask?

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[debianlinux]

in the distrowatch is in 89 position, how come the main fsf distro surpassed  
by some distros that are manteined by a single person in spare time???

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[dany5530]

Hi everyone. I'm really new to Trisquel and to Free Software way of life, but  
during these two weeks with Trisquel Mini I really felt that sense of freedom  
pople on the internet were talking about. I really like this distribution not  
just because it has 100% free software, but also because it fits damn well on  
my old Asus eeePC 701 which I use when I'm not home (= always). I'm not a  
developer, so if Ruben and the others decide to accept development help from  
the community I won't be useful, but I think that you may need someone who  
reports bugs coming from the latest releases!


I sincerely hope this project will not get abandoned with time, I tried about  
100 distros on my netbook (for days, not just 2 mins) and, trust me, no one  
is even near to Trisquel for freedom and performance!


Have a nice day! And don't root while drunk! :)

Re: [Trisquel-users] I'm leaving Trisquel

[jason]

Teach about free software and campaigning for various issues is also  
important. And how do the other FSF-endorsed distros feel over that if the  
FSF were to say "we'll hire someone to work on Trisquel but sorry Parabola  
and Guix you lose! Suckers!!! LOL..." I think they'd feel like a second-class  
distro: Trisquel is worthy of this but not them. I recall one of RMS's main  
points with their endorsed distros was to treat them all equally, even  
listing them in alphabetical order to avoid any indication of preference.