Re: [U2] Secrets was Vinnie Smith
Rocket sells direct and to ISVs in the USA. Depending on the contract most can only sell as part of their own application, most can't sell U2 on it's own. Outside the USA Rocket has some direct customers but mainly sells through distributers who then sell to ISVs and direct end users in the same way as Rocket does in the USA. On 21/12/2012 13:32, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: I think George that Rocket sells direct and also through VARs in the U.S. Not just direct. -Original Message- From: George Land george.l...@aptsolutions.co.uk To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Dec 20, 2012 11:58 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Secrets was Vinnie Smith My clients are not going to ring up their local Rocket distributor who has never once tried to make contact directly, and at any rate when they feel the software needs to be replaced they will start by doing their own research. Bearing in mind that you are in the USA your clients won't have a local distributor because Rocket sells direct there, distributor operate in the other geographies On 20/12/2012 19:13, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: I'm not suggesting they would look on the Rocket site. I'm suggesting we should have a list of such vars, on the Internet. Not in someone's internal contact list, where it does not good to us in the field. My clients are not going to ring up their local Rocket distributor who has never once tried to make contact directly, and at any rate when they feel the software needs to be replaced they will start by doing their own research. Which will, more times than not, show a few competitors, but nothing from Rocket / U2 Sure maybe that's the fault sometimes of the vars, but should *all* the weight be on the vars and none on Rocket to produce such a list? Pick Systems did produce such a list (for several years) with buy in from the vars who thought it would be a dandy way to get advertising and side by side comparisons with their competitors perhaps. Or perhaps they decided they didn't want that at all! At any rate, it used to exist, in exactly the way I've described. -Original Message- From: David Jordan da...@dacono.com.au To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Dec 19, 2012 9:50 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Secrets was Vinnie Smith Hi Will They won't look for video software on the Rocket site, they are going to look for solutions in trade journals and on the internet. That is where the ISVs are focusing their advertising. With the issue about finding solutions, make contact with a local sales person at Rocket or one of the Distributors. They should be able to point you to references. They can give you a one off verbal, that would not be allowed if it went to print or the internet. If it is published it has to go to legal, if it is a verbal comment made one off, it does not require legal. That is why George raised it is easier to make a phone call. Regards David Jordan ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Secrets was Vinnie Smith
But in reality does that happen with any regularity? If it does then the obvious first place to look is the Rocket web site, if that gives no joy then your local Rocket sales rep or Distributor. Obviously if this happens a lot for a lot of people then producing some sort of guide does make sense, but my perception and that of others I talk to is that it is a pretty rare event. George On 19/12/2012 22:41, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: Then you're not understanding me. I am not speaking at all of sites that use home-built systems. I am speaking of vendors, who sell application abc, to *others*, and yet their advertising is squelched by all the noise. If I have a client who is say a video rental store (they do still exist) and their existing software company has vanished, the owner is most likely to say, gee let's look at what's available in the market to move our data to. If I can say, here is another company, also making software for your exact same vertical, and luckily, they use the exact same database that is an advantage to me, and the client both. I can't do that today, because unlike some other databases, their doesn't seem to be any such resource to list who has what app for sale in the MV world. -Original Message- From: David Jordan da...@dacono.com.au To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Dec 19, 2012 1:53 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Secrets was Vinnie Smith Hi Will What you are raising is the issue of internal customised U2 sites which are a dying breed. The new market is applications where people buy the applications, not the database. Vendors see no benefit from advertising that they use U2 where they get no financial benefit and they could disadvantage themselves. Even Oracle based packages are talking less about Oracle. If a site is Microsoft SQL Server, why get yourself knocked off the list. The trend is such that Oracle is buying ERP tools to sell, because people no longer make decisions on Databases. SAP is moving the customer to their purchased Sybase database. The market is all moving towards applications as the decision making process. George and I advertise that we run on U2 product, but many of the ISVs don't see any benefit. Regards David Jordan ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Secrets was Vinnie Smith
My clients are not going to ring up their local Rocket distributor who has never once tried to make contact directly, and at any rate when they feel the software needs to be replaced they will start by doing their own research. Bearing in mind that you are in the USA your clients won't have a local distributor because Rocket sells direct there, distributor operate in the other geographies On 20/12/2012 19:13, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: I'm not suggesting they would look on the Rocket site. I'm suggesting we should have a list of such vars, on the Internet. Not in someone's internal contact list, where it does not good to us in the field. My clients are not going to ring up their local Rocket distributor who has never once tried to make contact directly, and at any rate when they feel the software needs to be replaced they will start by doing their own research. Which will, more times than not, show a few competitors, but nothing from Rocket / U2 Sure maybe that's the fault sometimes of the vars, but should *all* the weight be on the vars and none on Rocket to produce such a list? Pick Systems did produce such a list (for several years) with buy in from the vars who thought it would be a dandy way to get advertising and side by side comparisons with their competitors perhaps. Or perhaps they decided they didn't want that at all! At any rate, it used to exist, in exactly the way I've described. -Original Message- From: David Jordan da...@dacono.com.au To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Dec 19, 2012 9:50 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Secrets was Vinnie Smith Hi Will They won't look for video software on the Rocket site, they are going to look for solutions in trade journals and on the internet. That is where the ISVs are focusing their advertising. With the issue about finding solutions, make contact with a local sales person at Rocket or one of the Distributors. They should be able to point you to references. They can give you a one off verbal, that would not be allowed if it went to print or the internet. If it is published it has to go to legal, if it is a verbal comment made one off, it does not require legal. That is why George raised it is easier to make a phone call. Regards David Jordan ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Vinnie Smith
I first met Vinnie over a System Builder 5.1 application at the Home Office in Bootle, Liverpool, UK in 1988 or 89, so yes, he goes back with SB and MV a long time and he's been in the U2 team in Denver for many years - I'd guess 10 or 15. George On 19/12/2012 17:02, Daniel McGrath dmcgr...@rocketsoftware.com wrote: Not sure if he emails here, but I'm sure he lurks from time to time. Vinnie has been with the U2 team for a long time (joined as part of the SystemBuilder acquisition, I believe). Most of the SB folk will know him well. Regards, Dan -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 9:57 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] Vinnie Smith This is the new head of the U2 Tools. I've never heard of him (not that I should). Does he post here? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Vinnie Smith
The only people really who sell the database without an application are the distributors, everyone else is selling OEM with the database bundled in the application. As distributors we don't have a list but we know our own customers and if someone is after an application that is in a particular vertical we know who to ask in the other geographies. George On 19/12/2012 17:59, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: That's too bad. One of the main selling points of the Pick Hits books, was that a reseller of the OS, pitching a new hardware/support customer, could look up if any vendor had a Video Store solution, or a Collections solution -Original Message- From: Daniel McGrath dmcgr...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Dec 19, 2012 9:26 am Subject: Re: [U2] Vinnie Smith I'm not sure if there is a resource that would list them for you. While we do know internally who is using, we wouldn't advertise that without their explicit consent. In that regards, I do know we have at least 1 case study from a partner on our website http://u2.rocketsoftware.com/resources/case-studies The customer is P2 Energy. They recently presented a CMUG in Denver for those go to that user group. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:09 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Vinnie Smith Speaking of System Builder, is there a resource of applications being sold which were written using System Builder ? -Original Message- From: Daniel McGrath dmcgr...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Dec 19, 2012 9:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] Vinnie Smith Not sure if he emails here, but I'm sure he lurks from time to time. Vinnie has been with the U2 team for a long time (joined as part of the SystemBuilder acquisition, I believe). Most of the SB folk will know him well. Regards, Dan -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 9:57 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] Vinnie Smith This is the new head of the U2 Tools. I've never heard of him (not that I should). Does he post here? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Vinnie Smith
Several reasons Firstly to do that means getting people's permission, most of the ones who've given consent are on the Rocket website anyway, but there are a lot who aren't. Secondly many companies don't view it as a priority because it is not perceived by many that it will get them sales Thirdly a list goes out of date fairly quickly And finally it isn't hard to work it as we do, if I am looking for an application for widget manufacturing I only have to send an email to a handful of people and by the next day I'll have the information I need. George On 19/12/2012 20:57, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: If you know who to ask why not publish the list of who sells what? -Original Message- From: George Land george.l...@aptsolutions.co.uk To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Dec 19, 2012 12:43 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Vinnie Smith The only people really who sell the database without an application are the distributors, everyone else is selling OEM with the database bundled in the application. As distributors we don't have a list but we know our own customers and if someone is after an application that is in a particular vertical we know who to ask in the other geographies. George On 19/12/2012 17:59, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: That's too bad. One of the main selling points of the Pick Hits books, was that a reseller of the OS, pitching a new hardware/support customer, could look up if any vendor had a Video Store solution, or a Collections solution -Original Message- From: Daniel McGrath dmcgr...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Dec 19, 2012 9:26 am Subject: Re: [U2] Vinnie Smith I'm not sure if there is a resource that would list them for you. While we do know internally who is using, we wouldn't advertise that without their explicit consent. In that regards, I do know we have at least 1 case study from a partner on our website http://u2.rocketsoftware.com/resources/case-studies The customer is P2 Energy. They recently presented a CMUG in Denver for those go to that user group. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:09 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Vinnie Smith Speaking of System Builder, is there a resource of applications being sold which were written using System Builder ? -Original Message- From: Daniel McGrath dmcgr...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Dec 19, 2012 9:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] Vinnie Smith Not sure if he emails here, but I'm sure he lurks from time to time. Vinnie has been with the U2 team for a long time (joined as part of the SystemBuilder acquisition, I believe). Most of the SB folk will know him well. Regards, Dan -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 9:57 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] Vinnie Smith This is the new head of the U2 Tools. I've never heard of him (not that I should). Does he post here? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Reasons to continue with Software vendor support
Whilst another partner could provide a support service they can't provide Rocket maintenance for licenses sold by someone else. However there is a process you can go through with Rocket to keep your licenses on maintenance, get in touch and talk to them. George Land On 29/06/2012 23:09, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: They can't force you to *not* have support with anyone. So you are free to get your Universe support through any other provider. -Original Message- From: Holt, Jake jh...@samsill.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:37 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Reasons to continue with Software vendor support We dropped support because epicor was forcing us to pay both the DB upport and their own software maintenance support, we couldn't just aintain the DB support, we would have kept UniVerse support if they ould have let us. -Original Message- rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brutzman ent: Friday, June 29, 2012 1:54 PM o: U2 Users List ubject: Re: [U2] Reasons to continue with Software vendor support We here have yearly UniVerse support with Rocket. The cost is modest. e are using HP-Ux. The Rocket support gets us the database upgrades nd once or twice we have had database upgrade issues that Rocket andled rather well. If we were to drop support... last time that I checked... it was twice he price to get back on. For us here, our Rocket support is something f an insurance policy. If Epicor is dropping ManFact support... it sounds like Epicor would be erely marking-up Rocket's U2 services. --Bill __ 2-Users mailing list 2-us...@listserver.u2ug.org ttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __ 2-Users mailing list 2-us...@listserver.u2ug.org ttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Universe/Unidata in the Cloud
Actually ASP is being 'retired', there is now a fixed term license which means that you don't have the same up front fee but pay more as an annual fee. And if true SaaS is what you need, paying based on the number of transactions processed or whatever, then you need to talk about it. I'm not saying that it will be agreed to, but if it's a sensible proposal that brings in decent revenue there is every chance it may be agreed. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor On 04/06/2012 14:41, David Wolverton dwolv...@flash.net wrote: They do have an ASP license -- it's an annual license fee instead of the 'permanent' fee. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2012 6:04 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Universe/Unidata in the Cloud Just so I'm clear... what exactly would be different about such a license? Seems to me the typical licensing terms would work just fine, as long as you have enough seats to handle the traffic. I would, however, be concerned about opening up the telnet port on a cloud architecture. On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 6:05 PM, Robert Houben robert.hou...@fwic.netwrote: Does Rocket license Universe or Unidata for use in the cloud? Robert Houben IBM Certified Solution Advisor and Architect - Cloud Computing Architecture Chief Technology Officer FusionWare Integration Corp. p: 604-777-4254 x158 f: 604-608-5544 http://www.fwic.nethttp://www.fwic.net/ LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/company/fusionware-integration-corp.?trk=fc_ba dge Twitter http://www.twitter.com/fusionwareint FaceBook http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/New-Westminster-BC/FusionWare-Integra tion-Corp/115116258510923 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Universe/Unidata in the Cloud
If you are connection pooling without connection pooling licenses then the most a court will do is rule that you need to buy those connection pool licenses, they aren't going to tell you that you need 2 million licenses. On 04/06/2012 15:58, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: Surely Robert you know that courts understand that wording can be ambiguous. If you really think some court is going to tell you you need 2 million licenses I think you're trying to make a case out of tissue -Original Message- From: Robert Houben robert.hou...@fwic.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Mon, Jun 4, 2012 7:35 am Subject: Re: [U2] Universe/Unidata in the Cloud As usual this group is a wealth of information. I think the talk to Rocket is the most useful thing. Our OLE DB driver uses Microsofts OLE DB Resource Pooling (built into Windows) to pool. Our other products provide built-in pooling. We've always told our U2 customers that they need to get connection pooling licenses. The wording of the license agreements suggests that whoever wrote it did not understand how most applications use connection pooling. I was curious if this had been cleared up. Unfortunately, if anything goes wrong, unless you have something written to refer to, the actual wording of the license will be used by the courts. Thank you, Robert Houben IBM Certified Solution Advisor and Architect - Cloud Computing Architecture Chief Technology Officer FusionWare Integration Corp. p: 604-777-4254 x158 f: 604-608-5544 http://www.fwic.net LinkedIn Twitter FaceBook -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Land Sent: June-04-12 1:33 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Universe/Unidata in the Cloud I think that there is quite a bit of confusion on different terms. Firstly there is no problem in developing and hosting web based applications using U2, many of the successful U2 applications today are web based. But since U2 is licensed per user what you can't do is simply have a small license that connection pools - in other words runs a few processes that listen for work from a large user base and services them. Instead if you connection pool using Rocket's or your own technology then you need to buy connection pooling licenses. Whilst this pricing model is different to Oracle and Microsoft it is also often less expensive, it all depends on the configuration of the system being implemented. But that's different from SaaS, connection pooling is about a technical architecture whilst SaaS is really a pricing model. You can adopt a SaaS pricing model on an in house application just as you can adopt a conventional user licensing model on an application that is hosted/in the cloud. If you are implementing a true SaaS pricing model, so the customers pay per transaction or per some other metric, and you want to pay for your U2 licenses on the same metric then you need to talk to Rocket or your distributor if you are outside the US. It is almost impossible to have an 'off the shelf' pricing model for this environment because the metrics you use and the software you need to back it up will vary, particularly if the demand is going to be seasonal. But talk about it with whoever you buy from. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor On 03/06/2012 07:22, Robert Houben robert.hou...@fwic.net wrote: I should clarify my question. What is the legality behind licensing a SaaS (or BPaaS) offering with a U2 system behind it? I believe at one point there were terms of use in the user license that made a SaaS implementation potentially impractical. BTW, believe it or not, providing Microsoft products in a SaaS environment is a violation of their license agreement, unless you get a special variant of their licenses (these raise the price significantly). This is little known, and to date Microsoft has not been aggressive in enforcing it, but that apparently might be about to change. U2, to my knowledge requires a special type of network license if you are going to provide pooled connections of any sort (e.g. through a web server.) The special terms to look up seem to be Connection Pooling and Concurrent User. My initial read of the section describing these is that if I have potentially 2 million different users who may use my service through web-based connection pooling through the term of the license, (even if not concurrently), I must have licenses enough (2 million of them) to support this. I copy the block of text at the bottom of this message from a copy of the license agreement that I have (possibly out of date - that's part of the question). Their definition of Concurrent seems a bit odd... (BTW, I agree: I would *never* use an unprotected telnet session over
Re: [U2] Calling U2UG Members
As a board member for the past four years and one who is standing for Vice President I will respond. The user group is for all the members of the U2 community whether they are Rocket employees, end users, ISVs, consultants, Distributors or anyone else. The user group has a number of principles or aims but, to be honest, it is not really fulfilling any of them very well currently and that needs to change. A major problem is lack of resource, the board meet for an hour every other week, everyone is busy, things take a long time to happen and that needs to be addressed. I believe that it can only change by working with other organisations in the U2 space whether that be Rocket, Distributors, ISVs or whoever else. The group needs to find a role that is complementary to the other parts of the community but not beholden to any one of them, including Rocket, but our aims are the same, we are all interested in the success of U2. Rocket are supportive of U2UG but aside from this list, which technically is not part of the user group, and the website there is little to support and that needs to change. I feel that the most powerful role the group can take is to facilitate a community not just for the exchange of technical information but also for commercial details. For example how many people really understand the case to be put forwards commercially and technically to support the use of U2? We need to work with the people who have that information and get it into the community. The provision of information on where to find things like training and consultancy, information on who uses U2 and what they use it for, these are all things that I believe that the U2 community would benefit from but to unlock that we need to work with the people who have the information. It is hard because I'm not sure many people think about what they want from the group, to a certain extent the board needs to lead by action and see what take up we get. Any ideas on what people think the group should do would be very welcome. I hope people will vote and obviously I hope they will vote for me! But whoever you vote for please be free with your comments on the direction the group should take, with a new President in David Jordan we have an opportunity to review the direction and I'm sure I speak for the whole of the board when I say that we would welcome any comment or debate on what that direction should be. George Land (And apologies if you get this twice, my first sending of it seems not to have made it) On 09/03/2012 17:12, Daniel McGrath dmcgr...@rocketsoftware.com wrote: Hi Brian/U2UG, Now that I work for Rocket, I'm not sure if I should still vote. Thoughts? If I can, I'd like to reiterate the questions I posed this time last year before I do vote. Hi all, I've posted an open letter regarding the U2UG elections to the nominees. I'd love to see more dialogue around these elections as I feel I don't really know what I'm voting for when I place my votes. http://u2tech.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/u2ug-elections-2011/ Along with this, I also wonder how many people on this list are members of the U2UG and how many actually vote? I've never seen any numbers. I know I'm one of two out of the roughly 20 U2 people at my work who know of the U2UG and am the only member. Not the greatest odds. On the positive side, it leaves a lot of room to expand. :) Regards, Dan -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 3:56 AM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: [U2] Calling U2UG Members All, To those of you who are U2UG members (and if not, why not?) - a reminder that the elections for the 2012-13 board are under way. If you didn't receive an email about this, please (please) check your profile on the website - I've had a lot of bounces because email addresses are out of date. All U2UG members are eligible to vote, just cast your vote by logging in at: www.u2ug.net and selecting the U2UG Elections link between now and next Wednesday. If you don't see the link, you haven't confirmed your registration. Why does this matter? The U2UG is the recognized body for representing all users of U2 products - whether end users, developers or ISVs. The board meets fortnightly with Rocket to discuss concerns and future plans for U2 and to represent the views of the whole user community. Thanks all, Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http
Re: [U2] Community list - was Reliability doesn't raise enough issues to keep the list busy
On 04/05/2011 18:10, Bob Wyatt bwyatt_...@comcast.net wrote: Please kill this, or move it to Community (which has effectively killed crap like this before)... Moving things to Community kills things for me because although I am subscribed to it nothing ever comes from it. I thought it was just quiet but, for me, it is doesn't work even though my email address says it is subscribed. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Reliability doesn't raise enough issues to keep the list busy
I doubt you'll ever believe me, until Rocket send you your branded skateboard that is! On 03/05/2011 17:52, fft2...@aol.com fft2...@aol.com wrote: We'll all believe you, when they are published. What's the link again? In a message dated 5/3/2011 4:21:55 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes: How a product that is growing can simultaneously be dying is a bit of a mystery. Sitting here with last quarter's sales figures for U2 in the UK I can definitely say it's not dying, they look very healthy indeed. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Reliability doesn't raise enough issues to keep the list busy
How a product that is growing can simultaneously be dying is a bit of a mystery. Sitting here with last quarter's sales figures for U2 in the UK I can definitely say it's not dying, they look very healthy indeed. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor On 03/05/2011 06:36, Tony Gravagno 3xk547...@sneakemail.com wrote: From: David Jordan It is the problem with a reliable product there are not enough issues to keep the list busy. If you had one of the competitor products there would be a ton of issues to deal with to keep multiple forums busy. Funny how buggy software can look good, because there are a ton of forums to deal with all the bugs. I feel a need to stick a pin that balloon of hot air, even if I happen to agree with it in large part, and present an equal but opposite view. :) Paraphrase: It is the problem with a dying product there are not enough creative thoughts to keep the list busy. If you had one of the competitor products there would be a ton of ideas to discuss to keep multiple forums busy. Funny how great software can look bad, because there are so few people to discuss all the wonderful ways to use it. Just trying to keep things real. T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Reliability doesn't raise enough issues to keep the list busy
But surely the reason is that whilst some years ago we all did everything in U2 (or D3 or whatever) today we use a blend of technologies. So it is unlikely that you will be doing new front end development in basic, you will have adopted a .NET or java or whatever approach. You will then, I hope, be interfacing back to U2 for data storage and, to a greater or lesser extent, business logic, but you are unlikely to be trying to work out how to do massively innovative things in U2. That is a reflection of the fact the U2 is becoming more and more a database and less of a complete development environment. It's part of the evolution, when I started on a CMC/Microdata Reality the operating system, database and development environment were combined. Then the o/s bit gradually dropped away and it all became a database and development environment on unix or windows. Now, to some extent, the development environment is moving away and it is becoming a database. Arguably that is where it should have been positioned in the first place, Pick/Reality etc were never great as operating systems, as development environments they have had their day but it was always and still is as a database that the true strengths lie. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor On 03/05/2011 10:00, Symeon Breen syme...@gmail.com wrote: I am with Tony on this one, I frequent a number of .net forums, there is massive dialogue on these - not because of bugs, but because people are constantly driving forward the boundaries on what is possible. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: 03 May 2011 06:36 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Reliability doesn't raise enough issues to keep the list busy From: David Jordan It is the problem with a reliable product there are not enough issues to keep the list busy. If you had one of the competitor products there would be a ton of issues to deal with to keep multiple forums busy. Funny how buggy software can look good, because there are a ton of forums to deal with all the bugs. I feel a need to stick a pin that balloon of hot air, even if I happen to agree with it in large part, and present an equal but opposite view. :) Paraphrase: It is the problem with a dying product there are not enough creative thoughts to keep the list busy. If you had one of the competitor products there would be a ton of ideas to discuss to keep multiple forums busy. Funny how great software can look bad, because there are so few people to discuss all the wonderful ways to use it. Just trying to keep things real. T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1325 / Virus Database: 1500/3610 - Release Date: 05/02/11 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Saying Goodbye... Reasons not to say goodbye.
of what we do is so much better, compared to the first system we delivered in 1994 our software is massively different, much easier to use and much more effective in what it does for our customers. Yet it is all based on the same code we started writing in late 1993. Whilst our competitors have had to go back to basics and start again we haven't, we evolve and take our customers with us. For me it's the opportunity and challenge everyone involved in U2 faces. You can move forwards, embrace new technologies and new ways of thinking and working and take what you have in U2 into those worlds or you can sit in the corner grumbling about how good green screen is. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor supplier of software and services to the membership sector. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Saying Goodbye... Reasons not to say goodbye.
Hmm, there really is a fundamental lack of understanding going on here. Firstly we are not really talking about GUI in the old sense. A GUI interface on a green screen application is just putting lipstick on a pig. That really isn't what it is about. We have an SB based application and in client GUI mode it is just a 'prettier' version of the character based version, so it arguably looks better but it works the same and it does the same thing as the character application. Is it an improvement? That's arguable and all those supporting the green screen world have a point when up against that sort of interface. But SB GUI is about 15 years old, it is the 'modern interface' of the 1990s not the interface of today. Today's interface is browser based, it is graphical and it does things differently to how they were done 20 years ago. In my world it has opened up a whole new range of opportunities for us to do things that we could not do in the old interfaces. Ways of presenting data and organising information that is genuinely more usable and productive than before plus opening up access to data for people who are remote. This one, in particular, makes a massive difference, running software from anywhere in the world on whatever device you have to hand. Sure, the back office people entering data in a traditional way still will be most productive on a traditional interface, and we still provide that. But organisations are changing, those people are reducing in number and importance, increasingly orders are placed by the customers online, data is updated by the customers online. The thing is that in the U2 world we are good at this, it is stuff we can do (and many of us are doing) really well. That's why U2 is growing. But it demands a shift in mindset from the traditional, it is only once you start working with people who do this stuff that you truly start to see what is possible. Marry good web skills with traditional database expertise and you have a winning combination. You will soon find that they can do things quickly and easily that we don't even dream of in a U2 programming environment, but they we can do things with data that they is way beyond anything they are used to. U2 has a strong future in this world but not amongst those who want to go on doing everything how it has been done before. By all means do that if you want, but your employers or customers will move on even if you do not. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Saying Goodbye...
Increasingly a mature interface does cost money. There are several issues: 1. Training, using our SB based GUI client interface people need to be trained to do a lookup with F3, to use tab and enter in particular ways and so on. With our web interface people can, in the main, just use it with very little training. 2. Breadth of use - it follows on from 1, a lot more people within our customers use our software now it is web based. Two reasons for that, firstly they can, instead of buying a database license for each user they buy connection pooled licenses so there is potential to support a larger user base for the money. Even without that you get a larger user base because the software is easier to use, people get information themselves rather than asking others to get it for them. 3. Speed of use - we do autocomplete drop downs a lot, people can start typing and get a matching values, much quicker (if designed properly) than having to know or find the value to enter. Essentially the point here is that there are a lot more UI options you can use. 4. Greater functionality - look at a person's record, click to view their address on a map, click to get the directions to that place. 5. Flexibility of use - access the same software using an iPad over 3G as you use in the office from your PC. Run it on a Mac, a PC, a phone, a tablet, anything that runs a browser. The issues are real, it's not just about the application looking pretty it's about being able to do a whole range of stuff and improve the effectiveness of a range of users and so save or make the customer money. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor On 27/04/2011 18:36, fft2...@aol.com fft2...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/27/2011 9:59:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, johnisr...@daytonsuperior.com writes: However, a mature interface can not reasonably be achieved if it is a canned package with vendor support that is still old style. Even the GUI interface with SB leaves things to be desired. We are locked into whatever our vendor supports - writing our oun interface for a large ERP system will simply never happen (thus the vendor is cutting their throat as well as ours), and I see no interest on their end to make this happen. If the canned package does everything your *business* needs to be successful, then why would anyone want to upset that business requirement, just to make it look pretty ? See how much money you can spend on a pretty interface that doesn't move your bottom line into the black, but rather into the red ? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Saying Goodbye...
Well, SB/XA takes your SB application so that it can run in a browser. That's not converting it to html, it's still working like a client application but it is in a browser and accessible from anywhere. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor On 27/04/2011 18:45, Israel, John R. johnisr...@daytonsuperior.com wrote: This would be a vendor decision to keep their clients (management). Otherwise, as we have all seen, management may make a call to go to something with a more familiar interface. Thus, the vendor looses a client. I was not suggesting WE rewrite this. Has anyone ever used the conversion tool to convert an SB application to HTML? I have heard of it, but have never heard of anyone actually doing it. John -- Sent using BlackBerry - Original Message - From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed Apr 27 13:36:04 2011 Subject: Re: [U2] Saying Goodbye... In a message dated 4/27/2011 9:59:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, johnisr...@daytonsuperior.com writes: However, a mature interface can not reasonably be achieved if it is a canned package with vendor support that is still old style. Even the GUI interface with SB leaves things to be desired. We are locked into whatever our vendor supports - writing our oun interface for a large ERP system will simply never happen (thus the vendor is cutting their throat as well as ours), and I see no interest on their end to make this happen. If the canned package does everything your *business* needs to be successful, then why would anyone want to upset that business requirement, just to make it look pretty ? See how much money you can spend on a pretty interface that doesn't move your bottom line into the black, but rather into the red ? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Saying Goodbye...
Interviewing late last year I got a series of applications from unemployed long term mv programmers. Several of them had been contracting for years, being paid a lot of money (in some case twice what we were offering) to work on green screen applications in basic. They lacked what I would call simple IT skills, one said that he had been teaching himself new skills by networking together two PCs at home, which he had found 'challenging'. Now I'm not saying that all long term mv programmers are like that, but quite a number are and they will struggle. We do a lot of our work in java and html and increasingly even our database people need to be web savvy. Speaking as a 28 year mv veteran myself, I know how hard it is to adapt to this new world but equally I recognise the need. Increasingly we are finding it easier to recruit web and java skilled people and teach them what they need to know about U2, much quicker and cheaper than taking veterans who expect their experience to mean they are paid a lot of money and who struggle to understand what we are talking about when we say XML, REST, http GET POST etc. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor On 27/04/2011 15:33, Rex Gozar rgo...@gmail.com wrote: Make them awesome. flame The problem is not the maturity of the interfaces, but the maturity of the developer community. Too many Pick programmers see the latest technology as here today, gone tomorrow so they are not inspired to learn it, much less create feature-rich software that implements it. That's not to say that some of the more vocal developers on this list do not use modern technologies, but I think the critical mass still thinks green screen is faster = better software. Software development is about making the USER awesome at what they do. There are a lot ways to do that, but ignoring newer technologies because they may be replaced tomorrow is just retarded. You don't create web apps because you have no clue how to write HTML, CSS, and javascript. You don't create GUI apps because haven't spent the time to learn Visual Whatever. Stop treating every problem like a nail because you only have a hammer in your toolbox. /flame Make them (the users) awesome, and we won't have to worry about leaving U2, or its marketing, or whether the VP's on the golf course are talking about SAP. With awesome users, the VP's will be talking about how they can extend their U2 applications. rex ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Saying Goodbye...
As I've said before, U2 is growing, there was double digit sales growth last year. But it is also changing, end users are increasingly not employing programmers of any sort. Software development is more and more a function of software companies with end user companies running what they buy. The U2 based software that is being sold is unrecognisable from the green screen apps of old, it is all about web integration, smartphones, tablets, good looking and easily usable UIs. We have a platform on which we can do that easier than most other technologies, but it's about new skills blended with U2, pure U2 doesn't cut it any more. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor On 26/04/2011 17:57, Mike Randall mike.rand...@comcast.net wrote: Doug, I think you make an excellent point about too many in the U2 space that fail to show what the technology can do and obsolete themselves and the product in the process. In today's world of smart phones, tablets and the web, green screen apps just don't cut it.These 'saying goodbye' letters should be a call to arms for all U2 developers. Change or get eaten.Embrace .Net and web... Mike Randall -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Doug Averch Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:53 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Saying Goodbye... The problem is two parts. First, we programmers have failed to show management that we have the skill set to Innovate or Die. Secondly, we have managers that are happy they are employed and don't know or care what U2 can do. Maybe this is because they don't know or perhaps we have not done anything to show them what can be done. Presentation is everything. Show the managers and owners what U2 software can do using browser based technology or Microsoft's .NET. When every I visit a client or prospective client I tell them and show them what innovations we are doing or will be doing. This is so when a sales person from Oracle or SAP come to their office and try to sell them, I have already closed that door. I bring my XLr8Editor on a thumb drive to every client to show them, I am not editing program via a DOS line by line editor. U2logic tools are state of the art with innovations like continuous compile that make me more efficient and my code less buggy. Can AE/ED editor say that? Of course not. Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com/tools.html Free trials available ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Who is Ed Clark?
I don't think anyone has a problem with Ed or anyone else contributing, it's just a case of being open about who he is. Knowing that he is an Intersystems employee means that we can understand that he is knowledgable about Cache but also, potentially, a little biased. Just as knowing that I am Chairman of the U2 distributor for the UK tells you that I may be reasonably well informed about U2 and Rocket and potentially a little biased as well. It all helps to let you read comments in context if you know the basics about the person making them. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor U2UG Board Member On 13/04/2011 19:02, Dawn Wolthuis dw...@tincat-group.com wrote: I'm late to the party on this thread, but I'll put in my two cents that Ed is one of those go-to technical guys who knows a ton about MV. He has helped me out many times. He doesn't seem like a marketing type to me at all (less than I am, for example ;-) [and I clearly am not as marketing folks know better than to use smilies] As he said, he is an InterSystems employee, but I don't think that Ed is a spy either. Similarly, I am an InterSystems customer and I am on this list to pick up tidbits and be part of the MV community in this way, not to harm the U2 community in any way. It would be good if there were an MV email list that spanned database providers, but in the absence of that, hopefully Ed will feel comfortable piping up here (looks like he has again). I stay quiet for weeks on end, but every once in a while figure it is OK for me to speak up. cheers! --dawn On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 12:45 PM, George Land george.l...@aptsolutions.netwrote: This is a classic example of the issue that came up a few days ago about people being open about who they are. Ed Clark posts from u...@edclark.net, there is also an Ed Clark who posts about Cache in other places from an aol address, but then there is also an Ed Clark who has an Intersystems.com address. So come on Ed, who are you? Are you an Intersystems employee? If so why are you not open about it and say so? I make it quite clear that I sell U2, I make my bias obvious so people can judge my comments accordingly. If you are an Intersystems employee or otherwise connected to Intersystems then say so and let people judge your comments in that context. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Databasic conversion
Pick had an office in Chalfont St Peter, I guess it's the same one. But there are very few D3 sites in the UK, I only know of one and I don't know of any VARs still selling on D3. In our experience D3 is no longer much of a force in the UK. Outside the US U2 is sold through distributors, so there is a Rocket U2 presence in the UK, Switzerland, France, Spain, Italy, South Africa, Australia and Japan all of which offer local sales and support services. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor On 11/04/2011 13:03, Mecki Foerthmann mec...@gmx.net wrote: Symeon, I am afraid you are wrong. TigerLogic actually have an office in the UK (Buckinghamshire). And unlike Rocket they also have offices in France and Germany. Just go to their website and click on Contact us and you will see where you can find them. On 11/04/2011 09:23, Symeon Breen wrote: Tony RE why Unidata instead of Pick Well Tony I don¹t live in rainy California, but in sunny England ;) , Unidata/Vmark/Ardent/IBM/Rocket have always had a very strong corporate presence here  The Uk and the US have always been the major MV centres, and in the UK SystemBuilder, Vmark, Unidata, Prime, Jbase, Reality, Cache, QM all had corporate headquarters or a large corporate presence in the UK. I may be wrong but i don¹t think Pick systems/Raining Data have ever really had much of a corporate presence here. TBH I don¹t know of any UK vars even, tho I am sure there are some. So the upshot is, I have never been involved with them much at all. I know many of the jbase/reality/U2 guys but no one from Pick. From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: 08 April 2011 00:59 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Databasic conversion From: Mecki Foerthmann AFAIK UD can be run in case insensitive mode as well. I always turned case-insensitivity off in D3 because I think it's a real pain in the neck. Sounded great to start with but when you see the first printouts (i.e. invoices) you curse yourself if you didn't turn it off.:-( Not to (re)start a war but just present the other side: I consider case-insensitivity to be one strong advantage in D3 over other platforms. I constantly stumble on the requirement to get the casing just right at TCL and elsewhere in some MV environments when it's completely unnecessary and archaic that we should need to stumble on such a thing. Same goes for the difference between dashes and dots (LIST-ITEM vs LIST.ITEM) which is nicely translated for us in QM, Caché, and maybe in some flavors in U2. So just to balance it out. Some people swear at case-insensitivity, but I swear by it. WRT the OP : As soon as I saw the question about D3 to Unidata I immediately thought of the years of pain to which Bill Haskett was subjected. From his experience I swore off ever porting to Unidata. YMMV Symeon, perhaps in another thread (or email) you could explain why a site feels a need to migrate from D3, and then why they chose Unidata. With apologies to the sensitive, I don't think a migration from D3 is justified except for some extreme cases, and as to choosing Unidata, I don't see the business or technical benefits at all. Oh OK, I'll start a holy war. The only compelling reason for migration from a competing platform to U2 _used_ to be the IBM name. That doesn't exist anymore. Now these platforms need to compete on their technical merits and Rocket needs to sell itself on superiority as a business partner. Sorry folks but I don't see any of that. Really - where's the beef? U2 is good software and the U2 team at Rocket are good people. But I don't see any compelling reasons to choose this platform over any other these days. The political can't get fired for buying IBM edge is gone. Feel free to defend the platform because you've already made the investment and it's politically correct for you to take an obvious position, but be prepared for some pragmatic requests for more compelling reasoning. I'd really like to understand why any site would want to migrate to U2 these days. T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3557 - Release Date: 04/07/11 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo
[U2] Who is Ed Clark?
This is a classic example of the issue that came up a few days ago about people being open about who they are. Ed Clark posts from u...@edclark.net, there is also an Ed Clark who posts about Cache in other places from an aol address, but then there is also an Ed Clark who has an Intersystems.com address. So come on Ed, who are you? Are you an Intersystems employee? If so why are you not open about it and say so? I make it quite clear that I sell U2, I make my bias obvious so people can judge my comments accordingly. If you are an Intersystems employee or otherwise connected to Intersystems then say so and let people judge your comments in that context. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Who is Ed Clark?
Well it certainly passed me by until this flurry of comment on Cache, and saying things like 'NHS Scotland is going to be running their Patient Management System' is a little disingenuous, 'our' would be more appropriate if you work for them. This is a U2 list, I'm not trying to suppress comment but I think it is very important that people state their influences when they post. The only Rocket staff who post here are the likes of Wally and JJ when they can help with technical matters, which is great, their contribution is very valuable but the fact that Rocket don't use this list to try and influence is also something I have a lot of respect for. But if the list is to stay credible and open then we should all at least state if we have an influence. to post on a U2 list and omit to say that you work for a competitor is not, IMHO, acceptable behaviour. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor U2UG Board Member On 11/04/2011 18:56, Ed Clark u...@edclark.net wrote: Sorry, I thought it was well known that I'm an intersystems employee. I know I've mentioned it before on this list. I did add an [ad] to one of my recent responses that I thought crossed somewhat into advertising. Hopefully my other responses don't sound too much like sales. I'm trying to be informative from personal experience. On Apr 11, 2011, at 1:45 PM, George Land wrote: This is a classic example of the issue that came up a few days ago about people being open about who they are. Ed Clark posts from u...@edclark.net, there is also an Ed Clark who posts about Cache in other places from an aol address, but then there is also an Ed Clark who has an Intersystems.com address. So come on Ed, who are you? Are you an Intersystems employee? If so why are you not open about it and say so? I make it quite clear that I sell U2, I make my bias obvious so people can judge my comments accordingly. If you are an Intersystems employee or otherwise connected to Intersystems then say so and let people judge your comments in that context. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Opinions on Cache
With any platform change you have to ask what you are getting and what you are losing compared with where you are. If you want to evolve the application then your only option is to stay with U2 because that is the only platform that SB will run on. OK, there was an attempt to emulate SB on Cache, last I saw it there was a long way to go and in reality you are going to spend a long time just getting to where you already are. I'm a great believer in the evolution of software, it is rare that throwing away what you have is the best way forwards, you spend a long time coding stuff that is perfectly OK as it is. So I'd ask what you feel you would gain moving anywhere, is there something that you feel you can't do on the platform you are on? George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor On 10/04/2011 01:07, Don Verhagen u2-us...@southeast-florida.com wrote: Group, I want to ask if anyone has had any experience with Cache and also has experience with U2 and SQL. I have been out of the MV (U2) since then of 2008, currently .NET (C#) and MSSQL. I have a large MV application written in SB and Unidata that I would like to re-develop. The basic roundup: Entity Files - Employees (1M+ records) - Customers (1M+ records) Transactons: - Payroll/Timecard/Invocing related files (10M+ records each file). Binary Files: - Photos, Documents (resumes, HR Forms) (2-3M records) This will be a small/midsize enterprise application that will have both desktop, web, and mobile modules. Areas of interest: - Speed (I know this is difficult without hardware/etc). - File / Program Architecture - Development Language/Environment - Change Management (SDLC) - Deployment I just looking for an over feel and professional opinions as compared to other platforms. The biggest issues I have with SQL is the shear about of tables and their inflexibility with max sizes and such. The toughest question I hate to answer what is: The maximum size for column/field Last Name/Surname, Answer: How the hell do I know! Thank you in advance for any and all opinions related to Cache, online or offline. P.S. I have been on this list for at least a decade, please don't hold that against me. =) Don Verhagen Emjack Group, LLC. Email: u2-us...@southeast-florida.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
I would like to see the U2UG look in a bigger way at MultiValue industry affiliations and how our niche of the industry can play ball and be more visible and figure out how to play with industry organizations outside of the MV space as well as within. Just my two cents. Â There is a fundamental choice, if the group wants and expects any support from Rocket then it needs to be a U2 group. If the group wants to embrace a wider audience/membership then it needs to be an MV group and have no greater expectation of support from Rocket than from any other supplier. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
I'm not telling people, I'm telling a company. Rocket wants something out of U2UG but won't give it the financial backing it needs. That's not productive. Can you please scream a lot because everybody loves it :) The problem with that point of view is that you don't know what Rocket wants from U2UG nor do you know what backing they give already. As I have said, and Brian Leach has confirmed, the board has no problem with the support we get from Rocket. Continuing to maintain that Rocket wants something but is unwilling to provide any money is just factually incorrect. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
The issue with a paid group is, as you say, the need to give value for the subscription which needs a serious investment of time from someone to generate that value. At present we all struggle to give more than an hour or two to the group, I don't see where the time is going to come from for anyone to do that. George Land APT Solutions Ltd Sent from my iPhone On 21 Mar 2011, at 06:21, Glen Batchelor batch...@bellsouth.net wrote: I don't see why memberships must be free in the first place. Every user group i have been involved in required dues to be paid in order to fund meeting places. Why does any company need to fund anything that is strictly user oriented? You are receiving a user group service, which is free currently. When I attempted to start the MV dev society it was based on a member funded association who's purpose was education and promotion of technology. I got a decent amount of supportive feedback from many DB vendors and VARs. I think that a proper MVUG would work if there is enough of a push to get the word out. Be sure the focus is not just another mailing list or you're wasting everyone's time. There has to be value there to gain interest and a basic mailing list is not enough to collect dues. Glen.mobile RewriteRule ^(garbage|junk)$ /$1 [NC,L] On Mar 20, 2011, at 11:54 PM, fft2...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/20/2011 11:18:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, antli...@youngman.org.uk writes: I repeat. You yourself said that you weren't telling other people what to do. Then PLEASE DON'T! Please STOP TELLING ROCKET TO GIVE MONEY TO U2UG. Please STOP TELLING U2UG TO SPEND THE MONEY. I'm not telling people, I'm telling a company. Rocket wants something out of U2UG but won't give it the financial backing it needs. That's not productive. Can you please scream a lot because everybody loves it :) W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
No, this whole thing has got well beyond tedious now, if you haven't got the point yet that Rocket spend money on U2UG rather than give money to it - and that the board want is this way - you never will. On 21/03/2011 22:10, fft2...@aol.com fft2...@aol.com wrote: Then George correct my factual incorrectness by telling us what money Rocket is providing for U2UG ? You're saying that my claim that they aren't providing any is factually incorrect. -Original Message- From: George Land george.l...@aptsolutions.co.uk To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Cc: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Mar 20, 2011 11:21 pm Subject: Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment The problem with that point of view is that you don't know what Rocket wants from U2UG nor do you know what backing they give already. As I have said, and Brian Leach has confirmed, the board has no problem with the support we get from Rocket. Continuing to maintain that Rocket wants something but is unwilling to provide any money is just factually incorrect. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
On 15/03/2011 20:04, fft2...@aol.com fft2...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/15/2011 5:10:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, br...@brianleach.co.uk writes: Plus of course, since we don't charge fees, we don't have any budget to advertise our presence! Why isn't Rocket themselves giving a budget? A big part of the reason is that the user group is not a properly constituted organisation in the sense of being a corporation or other legal entity that can hold money. Whilst incorporation has been a topic over the years there are difficulties within it, not least where to incorporate and the problems inherent in being an international group. So don't blame Rocket for not providing a budget, if they provided money we don't have the ability to accept it. George Land U2 User Group Board Member ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
Not relevant. Rocket can provide a *budget* item, which the U2UG could *direct* without the U2UG ever actually holding the money. Speaking as a member of the U2 user group board I think I represent the views of the whole board when I say that we have no issues whatsoever with the support that we receive from Rocket. There is a senior representative on hand at every board meeting, we have access to software, to people and to resources. The limitations of the user group are entirely due to the limited time that board members have to spend on it and are nothing to do with Rocket. So please let's not make out that any perceived problems with the user group stem from Rocket, they don't. If we want a better user group we need more people to be engaged with it, you don't need to be on the board to help, again I'm sure that I speak for the entire board when I say that we would welcome any help that anyone is willing to give. George Land U2 User Group Board Member ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
On 18/03/2011 17:53, fft2...@aol.com fft2...@aol.com wrote: Any group is only as effective as the resources they have at their disposal, including money. So yes, without money I'm going to be pointing fingers at Rocket to ask, where's the financial support Rocket? Are you being deliberately perverse or do you have some axe to grind with Rocket? You clearly have no idea what Rocket does for the user group and despite being told that we can't take money but instead Rocket provides other resources with which we are very happy you still say 'where's the financial support?' Let's be clear about this - the support that we have asked for has been provided. There is nothing that we are being held back from doing due to lack of support from Rocket. What the group needs is not support from Rocket, we have that, it is the active participation of U2 users willing to put their time where their mouths are and contribute to what the group is doing. If you want to contribute start putting some ideas forward and volunteering time to put them into action. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
On 18/03/2011 21:49, fft2...@aol.com fft2...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/18/2011 1:02:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes: Are you being deliberately perverse or do you have some axe to grind with Rocket? Yes be sure to throw an ad hominem attack in there to try to convince the reading audience not to listen. Not sure what element of that was 'ad hominem', but if that's how you want to take it that is up to you. You clearly have no idea what Rocket does for the user group and despite being told that we can't take money but instead Rocket provides other resources with which we are very happy you still say 'where's the financial support?' Asked and answered. A group doesn't need to take money, in order to use money. Address that. Why doesn't Rocket have a budget earmarked Money to be used to support the U2 user group's activities? Why? Why do you think Rocket doesn't have a budget earmarked for user group activities? You clearly have no idea what involvement they have in their user group. Let's be clear about this - the support that we have asked for has been provided. There is nothing that we are being held back from doing due to lack of support from Rocket. Then you need to ask for more. Clearly the current strategy is not working. Why ask for more, what would we do with it? What activities do you think the user group should be doing that are restricted by lack of money? We are a user group, not a body dedicated to marketing a technology. What the group needs is not support from Rocket, we have that, it is the active participation of U2 users willing to put their time where their mouths are and contribute to what the group is doing. If you want to contribute start putting some ideas forward and volunteering time to put them into action. Sure let's continue a strategy that doesn't work. That is a great marketing approach. On your next point, I volunteer more time to promote MV than most. I'm not willing at all, to promote Rocket at the expense of other MV Vendors, as a volunteer with no support from Rocket themselves. Clearly you have no idea what I do, or what I've been doing. Maybe you should figure that out first, before you go spouting off about what you think I should be doing. I have no idea who you are, you hide behind a meaningless name - ft2...@aol.com - you could be anyone. OK, so you don't want to promote Rocket, let's remember that this is a U2 user group we are talking about. It's not a Pick user group, an MV user group, a jbase user group, an Intersystems user group. It is U2, that is Rocket and Rocket support their own user group. It sounds to me like you are someone whose involvement in MV has a bias towards the non-U2 side, that is your choice but have you discussed with anyone at Rocket what their strategy is? Do you have any information about what they are doing? U2 is sold OEM, license numbers are growing, revenues are growing, ISVs are prospering. OK, so there are less companies doing their own in house development, but that is the way the market is moving. Today it is increasingly about selling applications, not databases or development tools and as a specialist at selling OEM that is good for Rocket and U2. So you think it's a strategy that doesn't work, well that's your choice, but you probably have no sight of sales figures, no idea of licenses sold, no information on which to make that judgment. George Land Chairman APT Solutions Ltd Rocket U2 UK Distributor U2UG Board Member ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
On 16/03/2011 06:36, fft2...@aol.com fft2...@aol.com wrote: Ross I think you're right there. I think what we'll see is a slow accumulation of sites based on an employee mentioning it, or a consultant, or ex-employee. But not the VAR. And I think for the very reason that you suggest, that they don't want poachers. Don't want to compete in a completely open market. I wonder if a person were to build a list from online resumes alone, how many companies would be on it. Of course some or even many of those would have moved away from Pick. Writing as someone who is a VAR, a U2 distributor and a U2 board member I would say that it is more complex than that. Firstly the overwhelming majority of U2 end user sites do not have technical staff, even if they have an IT department that department knows nothing about U2 whatsoever. They run an application, they may manage the server it is on (although increasingly they will have it hosted and won't even do that) but they know nothing about the database or technology. Secondly you have to respect the confidentiality of your customers, I would never publicise anything about our customers without clearing it with them first. We had an attempt to get people just to say 'We use U2', but there was no interest, after all what is in it for them to say that? They rarely endorse other suppliers in that way. Companies don't go out and publicise that they use any particular product or technology, I don't usually declare to the world that we have Panasonic printers or Dell servers, why should anyone declare to the world that they use U2 particularly when they probably also have databases on Oracle, SQL Server and others as well? The poacher argument is largely spurious, as a VAR our customers use our application, they have to come to us for support and maintenance, it is written into their contracts. I'm not particularly concerned about other people approaching them, what they buy from us isn't specifically U2 skills it's application and market skills. George Land Chairman APT Solutions Ltd ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] RPL was Pick History et al
Ahh, RPL! My first MV experience was 4th Feb 1983 when I met a CMC Reality running RPL at a bus factory in the English Lake District. Several years working on manufacturing software that originated from SMI followed both there and at Trifid in Cheshire on Ultimates and Adds Mentor (running RPL+) before we converted it all to basic and moving to UniVerse. Can't add much to the history of it all though George On 07/02/2011 23:03, fft2...@aol.com fft2...@aol.com wrote: I'm thinking it might be good to write up an article about RPL. If any of you has knowledge of the history of the language, the company, etc. you can email me, and we can collaborate on getting it all laid out... straight. Will ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UK U2 University registration now open
I'd like to clarify a few points: U2U is a Rocket event, it will follow the same format as those in Denver and Sydney with Rocket presenters on a wide range of technical issues. The agenda for the Sydney event can be seen at http://u2u.rocketsoftware.com/agenda.html and the UK event will follow a similar format. On booking you will be invoiced by APT, this is purely administrative, all proceeds go to Rocket to pay the cost of putting on the event. Accommodation is extra and can be booked with the hotel, please note that you may be able to get a better rate online or at other nearby hotels. To book go to http://www.u2uk.com or email u2ukadmin at u2uk.com George Land APT Solutions Limited Rocket U2 UK Distributor On 28/01/2011 11:23, George Land george.l...@aptsolutions.co.uk wrote: APT Solutions, on behalf of Rocket Software, are pleased to announce that registrations for the UK U2 University are now open. The event will take place from the 22nd to 24th of March 2011 at the Crowne Plaza Hotel at the Birmingham National Exhibition Centre. The agenda is being finalised, however it will follow broadly the same format as for the Australian event shown at http://u2u.rocketsoftware.com/agenda.html Places are charged at £599+VAT for a single delegate. Two or more delegates from the same organisation will be charged at £550+VAT per delegate. Accommodation is available at the hotel for £129 per night by contacting the Crowne Plaza directly. To book on the event go to www.u2uk.com and follow the link on the home page. Please note that booking on the Rocket site is for the Australian event. On completion of the booking form you will receive an invoice from APT Solutions Ltd, this must be paid prior to the event in order to attend. To book accommodation call 0871 942 9160 and quote discount code ³RSI². For any queries please contact your Rocket or APT representatives. Regards George Land APT Solutions Limited Rocket U2 UK Distributor ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] UK U2 University registration now open
APT Solutions, on behalf of Rocket Software, are pleased to announce that registrations for the UK U2 University are now open. The event will take place from the 22nd to 24th of March 2011 at the Crowne Plaza Hotel at the Birmingham National Exhibition Centre. The agenda is being finalised, however it will follow broadly the same format as for the Australian event shown at http://u2u.rocketsoftware.com/agenda.html Places are charged at £599+VAT for a single delegate. Two or more delegates from the same organisation will be charged at £550+VAT per delegate. Accommodation is available at the hotel for £129 per night by contacting the Crowne Plaza directly. To book on the event go to www.u2uk.com and follow the link on the home page. Please note that booking on the Rocket site is for the Australian event. On completion of the booking form you will receive an invoice from APT Solutions Ltd, this must be paid prior to the event in order to attend. To book accommodation call 0871 942 9160 and quote discount code ³RSI². For any queries please contact your Rocket or APT representatives. Regards George Land APT Solutions Limited Rocket U2 UK Distributor ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] Jet
Happy memories... We have a customer that is using JET to output documents, does anyone know who (if anyone) owns JET these days? George Land APT Solutions Ltd UK U2 Master Distributor ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Jet
Thanks but the snag is that he sold it to vmark, or so he says and I guess he'd know but rocket don't think they own it now... George Land APT Solutions Ltd On 25 Aug 2010, at 18:15, Wols Lists antli...@youngman.org.uk wrote: On 25/08/10 17:04, George Land wrote: Happy memories... We have a customer that is using JET to output documents, does anyone know who (if anyone) owns JET these days? George Land APT Solutions Ltd UK U2 Master Distributor ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users I thought it was John Sisk, but obviously not. I've just found this post from 2006 -- I don't think you get the joke. JET stands for John Emil Treankler, the creator of the JET word processor. And Frosty = John Emil Treankler. So you see why a dead JET would be an upsetting thought for Frosty. ;^) --- So if you can find Frosty, he would probably know where it's ended up, or might still own it himself. Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] mv.NET and U2.NET
Tony, You are very good at asserting things about which you have no knowledge, putting forward statements as facts that have no foundation. You and I have never, to the best of my knowledge, met. I know nothing about you other than as a name on this list and I guess you know as little about me. You say George, you're not a U2.NET user, you know that do you? You say Please ... get someone with technical insight into this forum and accuse me of using marketing rhetoric. Apparently I'm making the assertion that responses to technical questions suddenly become non-technical when the respondant mentions a for-fee solution, am I? Don't remember doing that. As I say, you don't know me, but I can trade technical U2 credentials with anyone, 27 years starting with RPL on CMC Reality through every variation of mv database, language and most tools you can think of to web based applications built on U2 today. Along the way I've had a significant involvement in three applications that have each sold thousands of seats and generated millions in revenues. Fortunately the third one of those my business partner and I own so today I split my time between leading a development team and the other pressures of running small group of companies. So I'm a developer too, just one that's been fortunate enough to have a lot of commercial success with my products, it is not lack of technical insight that stops me getting involved in a 'nuts and bolts' discussion on these products. It is simply that I don't think this is an appropriate forum to do it, nor do I think it is particularly wise if there is any element of comparison with another product. I'm not commenting on your position, but mine is as a vendor with a declared interest and I don't see vendor comments about the products they sell being welcome here. I don't see others doing it and, other than correcting errors, I'm not about to do it myself. George Land APT Solutions Limited U2 UK Distributor On 13/08/2010 01:49, Tony Gravagno 3xk547...@sneakemail.com wrote: This discussion is borderline OT but this topic of advertising comes up often and applies to many here. I think it needs to be discussed in the context of this mv.NET/U2.NET comparison. From: George Land The problem is how you separate opinion from advertising and self promotion, how you define the line between fair comment and something much more serious. I can refer you to discussions in the TigerLogic/D3 forum where I have taken extreme exception to one vendor who chronically posts responses which have nothing to do with enquiries, simply to promote his product. He also includes a large, annoying screen shot of his product in every posting. For him the forum is nothing but a vehicle for self-promotion and he has no interest in helping people solve their various business/technical issues. _That_ is what none of us want, but _that_ is not what happens in this U2 forum. I'm a developer like most others here. I use software, I recommend tools that I like, and when I really like what I use, I take the next step to sell it. There are a vast number of products that I don't like which I don't sell - and many people here know that I've withdrawn support for software and companies that don't meet my standards. My positive commentary doesn't get invalidated as soon as I put my money where my mouth is. On the contrary, I think my opinion should be given more weight when I make a serious business investment in products that I use every day for providing business solutions. With regard to mv.NET, the tiny commission my company gets by selling other companies' products doesn't buy me as a mouthpiece. People need to evaluate the situation by a different measure when a user/reseller promotes something they like, compared to when a company employee talks up their own product. I am biased, I put the words 'U2 UK Distributor' in my signature because I own half of the company that distributes U2 in the UK. We are one of Rocket's largest U2 business partners and we sell U2.NET, we don't sell mv.NET. And with that in mind, George, you're not a U2.NET user and most of your arguments here are invalid. Your view is we are motivated to sell it, therefore we advocate it, not the other way around. I have yet to hear a single valid technical point about why U2.NET should be chosen over mv.NET. There is no room for empty marketing rhetoric here. Please use your position of influence to get someone with technical insight into this forum to tell us in solid technical terms what IBM/Rocket has done to make U2.NET a viable competitor against other offerings. Does anyone here find that to be an unreasonable request, despite the source? I am also a board member of the U2 user group and support the concept that this list is not for advertising or self promotion, it is a technical list. You're making the assertion that responses to technical questions
Re: [U2] mv.NET and U2.NET
That would be great if someone is able to do it. They'd need to be truly independent, have the requisite technical experience, get buy in from all the vendors concerned and have the resources to build and test. That would be great, but it's not a trivial thing to do. George Land APT Solutions Ltd Sent from my iPhone On 13 Aug 2010, at 11:07, Hona, David david.h...@cba.com.au wrote: I'll second that... Perhaps some of the large amount of energies expended in this colourful exchange can be diverted to a blow-by-blow feature comparison of U2.NET and MV.NET for a Spectrum magazine article? :-) - features - optimisation - benefits - licensing arrangements/schemes - installed licensed user base figures would be interesting to know - perhaps some basic benchmarking against the same back-end database/server would be great :-) And just for the heck of it - why not throw in the ISS PDP.NET into the mix too! Just a thought for someone! David -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Symeon Breen Sent: Friday, 13 August 2010 6:03 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] mv.NET and U2.NET So back the original point - what has been done to U2.net in the past 2 years, as a var of udt buying from APT I don't know ! - so i, and it looks like this group as well, would like some enlightenment please. I know how MV.NET has come on in leaps and bounds and it would be good to compare. Thanks Symeon. ** IMPORTANT MESSAGE * This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. We can be contacted through our web site: commbank.com.au. If you no longer wish to receive commercial electronic messages from us, please reply to this e-mail by typing Unsubscribe in the subject line. ** ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] mv.NET and U2.NET
Tony, On 06/08/2010 10:16, Tony Gravagno 3xk547...@sneakemail.com wrote: From: George Land (TG: Putting this up top) Please stick to telling us about what you know and not being negative about competing products that you don't know. George, it bothers me when people do that too. By nature I'm neither competitive nor argumentative, but as a developer I'm extremely detail- and technically-oriented, and lack of detail or technical accuracy will surely provoke responses from me. Perceive that as negative and competitive if you will but my open questions and assertions would be the same no matter what products I sell. If you want to defend U2.NET for any reason, please be specific and avoid marketing rhetoric that can't be substantiated. The problem is how you separate opinion from advertising and self promotion, how you define the line between fair comment and something much more serious. I am biased, I put the words 'U2 UK Distributor' in my signature because I own half of the company that distributes U2 in the UK. We are one of Rocket's largest U2 business partners and we sell U2.NET, we don't sell mv.NET. I am also a board member of the U2 user group and support the concept that this list is not for advertising or self promotion, it is a technical list. As someone who makes money selling U2.NET I don't think it is appropriate for me to do anything more than I have, to correct the assertion that U2.NET is 'frozen in time'. I'd simply say to anyone looking at this stuff to look at them all and make their own mind up. George Land APT Solutions Limited U2 UK Distributor ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] mv.NET and U2.NET
At the risk of sounding like I'm disparaging a competing offering, here is my understanding of U2.NET. Corrections are welcome: 1) U2.NET is essentially an old version of mv.NET (a fork). A license to the source was purchased by IBM from BlueFinity. It's essentially v3.2.x (?) frozen in time. Not quite, U2.NET has it's origins in mv.NET but has since been developed on by IBM/Rocket. I understand that Initially the work focussed on making it more performant and on improving the installability of it. It is now a fully fledged Rocket product with a development path of it's own. 2) It has not progressed in sync with mv.NET to support new features like Solution Objects (code generation of strongly-typed business classes) or the new extended support for Silverlight. No license was purchased by IBM/Rocket for ongoing enhancements or fixes from BlueFinity. Again, not quite. Bluefinity don't develop U2.NET it is a Rocket product with a development path and development team of it's own. It won't develop in sync with mv.NET or with anything else, it is an independent product with it's own development path. 3) Where the same mv.NET software can be used across almost all Pick/MV platforms, U2.NET hase been restricted to operating only with U2. I really don't get this. Land Rover make aftermarket products for Land Rovers, they don't make them for Jeeps. U2 represents the overwhelming majority of the mv market, it would be perverse of them to even consider making their tools work with anything other than U2. What you will get with a Rocket product is something that is designed for and written for U2. As UniVerse and UniData move forwards so the tools move forwards with them, and vice versa. 4) I originally thought and hoped that it would be provided free to the U2 client base. I really wanted to use U2.NET as an alternative to UO.NET and mv.NET for sites where it was better suited. But to my surprise this severely and intentionally limited product (in current features and its future) is being sold to U2 sites at a price comparable to mv.NET itself. If you want free then you should be looking at IBM.NET (soon to be renamed), with is an ADO.NET provider with add ins for Visual Studio, including support for SSIS and SSRS, LINQ, Silverlight and support for U2 Automatic Data Encryption. With it, you can access your U2 Data with SQL commands (like select, insert), U2 style access too (U2 Subroutines, unnest, DynArray Class, CALL LIST and SQLExecDirect), or through XML (TOXML, GETXMLSUB, XmlAdapter) and with Object Data access (LINQ to Entity, EDM Model). George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Distributor ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] {AD} Vacancy in Sydney Australia
APT Solutions  Product Developer Company: APT Solutions www.aptsolutions.net http://www.aptsolutions.net Profile: Leading U2 based software house supplying to high profile member organisations Location: Central Sydney Title: Stratum Developer Salary: $60- $75 dependant on experience plus performance related profit share An exciting opportunity has arisen to become part of an expanding technical team based in our central Sydney office. Our core product, Stratum, is a UniData based Membership application that is installed within a variety of leading Not for Profit membership organisations both in the UK and Australia. We are currently seeking an experienced motivated individual to become part of the team in Sydney as a technical developer. As the designated system expert in the southern hemisphere you will be required to solve critical support calls and day to day issues. Along with assisting with application development and deployment as and when required. You be within a supportive developer network in dynamic, successful and collaborative working environment. This is an ideal opportunity for someone seeking a new challenge and to contribute significantly to a fully web enabled product. Due to majority of our experienced application developers being located at our UK headquarters you will receive fully funded training in the UK on commencement. Essential Experience: UniData or UniVerse System Builder Appreciation of both client screen and web aesthetics Desireable Experience: U2 WebDE (RedBack) Development of applications for the web Please address CVs for the attention of Helen Pomlett and email to vaca...@aptsolutions.co.uk Please note that applications will only be accepted from people with the right to live and work in Australia who are able to commute to central Sydney on a daily basis. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Terminal Emulator and Telnet Client for a MacBook Pro
As do I, with SBClient in coherence mode it is pretty much indistinguishable from a native Mac app. Just the buttons in the top right not top left. George On 18/03/2010 21:43, Leroy Dreyfuss dreyfu...@frstia.co.za wrote: They will. I use Parallels. Sent from my iPhone 3Gs On 18 Mar 2010, at 6:36 PM, George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.com wrote: I wonder if wintergate/accuterm would work under Parallels? Parallels will virtualize the apple, so you can install windows (or migrate an existing PC), once done, you can run pretty much any windows PC while still running os x. Parallels for 1 PC is under 100.00 You will need from what I understand at least 2gb memory, 4gb better. From my experience, running one parallel program along with osx isn't too bad, however, running two (from two different virtual PC's) will slow the system down pretty good. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leroy Dreyfuss Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:19 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Terminal Emulator and Telnet Client for a MacBook Pro Hear hear! On 3/18/10 1:20 AM, Clif Oliver w...@oliver.com wrote: Aw, you're just jealous 'cause we get to use a real operating system. ;-) On Mar 17, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Symeon Breen wrote: I recommend you buy a pc and use that instead Sorry - i just don't like apple . -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Dave Taylor Sent: 17 March 2010 21:33 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] Terminal Emulator and Telnet Client for a MacBook Pro Does anyone have a recommendation for a terminal emulator and telnet client for a MacBook Pro or any MAC OS X operating system that will connect to Universe/Unidata? Thanks, Dave Taylor Sysmark Information Systems, Inc. 49 Aspen Way Rolling Hills Estates, CA 90274 (O) 800-SYSMARK (800-797-6275) (F) 310-377-3550 (C) 310-561-5200 www.sysmarkinfo.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users To read FRSTIA's disclaimer for the e-mail go to http://www.frstia.co.za/ ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users To read FRSTIA's disclaimer for the e-mail go to http://www.frstia.co.za/ ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Connection Pooling Statement
Well a SQL Server Enterprise license for a single processor costs about £17,000 plus the cost of the Windows license under that. Shall we say £20,000? For that I can get 16 connection pooled licences on U2 on a Linux box which will support a lot of users. OK the U2 could get more expensive if you put, say, 20 webshares on a single processor box but then put another processor in there and you have another £17k cost on SQL Server. They are different models so comparisons are hard, but surely they aren't that out of line with each other George On 26/09/2009 17:27, Ross Ferris ro...@stamina.com.au wrote: Yep, now it takes 2 connection pool licences to buy SQL Server Enterprise, rather than just 1 I can see that makes a BIG difference LOL! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage Better by Design! -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 7:51 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Connection Pooling Statement George Thanks, seems I was misquoted or the price has fallen (it was a while ago). At around 1700 GBP (with underlying licence) that's more reasonable. Brian -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Land Sent: 25 September 2009 10:38 To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Connection Pooling Statement On 25/09/2009 09:51, Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk wrote: My beef is quite simply with the price of pooled connections. With the cost of the underlying licence, you are talking around 3,000 GBP plus AMC per connection, which means 10 shares costs around twice the amount you can buy SQL Server Enterprise for and get unlimited connections. That is simply untenable. Hi Brian, Current price is actually 1,207 GBP with 181 GBP pa from year 2 onwards George ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Connection Pooling Statement
On 25/09/2009 09:51, Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk wrote: My beef is quite simply with the price of pooled connections. With the cost of the underlying licence, you are talking around 3,000 GBP plus AMC per connection, which means 10 shares costs around twice the amount you can buy SQL Server Enterprise for and get unlimited connections. That is simply untenable. Hi Brian, Current price is actually 1,207 GBP with 181 GBP pa from year 2 onwards George ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Connection Pooling Statement
It depends whether we are talking WebDE/RedBack or U2 connection pooling. If WebDE there is the underlying license but if it is a pure U2 connection pooling license for uniobjects or a home grown solution then 1207 is the price. So in other words 1207 for pure connection pooling and 1441 for a RedBack webshare plus a one off 887 for the RedBack server license. Obviously all GBP not USD or anything else. I can understand why it is how it is, a uniobjects connection pool license is about 5 times the cost of a standard one (depending on the edition). So from one angle that's not bad since it should cope with more than 5 users at any one time. George Land APT Solutions Ltd On 25/09/2009 10:50, Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk wrote: George Thanks, seems I was misquoted or the price has fallen (it was a while ago). At around 1700 GBP (with underlying licence) that's more reasonable. Brian -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Land Sent: 25 September 2009 10:38 To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Connection Pooling Statement On 25/09/2009 09:51, Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk wrote: My beef is quite simply with the price of pooled connections. With the cost of the underlying licence, you are talking around 3,000 GBP plus AMC per connection, which means 10 shares costs around twice the amount you can buy SQL Server Enterprise for and get unlimited connections. That is simply untenable. Hi Brian, Current price is actually 1,207 GBP with 181 GBP pa from year 2 onwards George ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Universe web connectivity
On 24/09/2009 00:05, Doug dave...@hotmail.com wrote: We do not require you to use IBM connection pooling since we handle this through UOJ and our connection manager. It's worth noting that if you use any software that connection pools you are obliged to buy database connection pooling licences. It doesn't matter whether you use the connection pooling facilities they provide, from a legal and commercial perspective you must buy them, you can't use normal database licences. George Land APT Solutions Ltd ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Connection Pooling Statement
On 24/09/2009 16:45, Doug dave...@hotmail.com wrote: George, We do not do connection pooling or use multiplexing software. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you did. I was trying to make a general point that you need connection pooling licences if you connection pool however you do it. We scale quite remarkable well. We have 70 user client running a call center with 10 Unidata licenses dedicated to the web. We have a public warehouse client with 4 licenses running 20 users internally and 20 customers externally. We have a 175 user running our CRM system using 2 licenses. There is a general point here though, supporting 175 users on a 2 license system is exactly the situation IBM/Rocket are trying to address by forcing you to have connection pooling licences. Now don't misunderstand me, I'm not accusing you of breaking the letter of the license agreement, but I think it is breaking the intention of it. Quite what 'connection pooling' and 'multiplexing' really is can be debated, but essentially what they want is for you to pay more for databases licenses that support multiple users than you do that are tied to one user. And having a small number of database licenses supporting a large number of users is exactly what you are doing George ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Connection Pooling Statement
But what you are describing is connection pooling which is when you need connection pooling licenses. George On 24/09/2009 23:27, Ross Ferris ro...@stamina.com.au wrote: David, I think your problem may be that you are logging only when you get a request? If you were to have lines pre-logged-in, though the complexity of the middleware increases, you may find a corresponding increase in performance ... and with a little more effort you may also decide to NOT kill a used connection immediately, 'cause if you get another request in from the same client soon, shouldn't be an issue using the previously used connection (that is still open) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage Better by Design! -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Wolverton Sent: Friday, 25 September 2009 5:47 AM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Connection Pooling Statement If you log off and on, it does satisfy the licensing - letter and intent... BUT usually the performance hit is so high that it FORCES you to connection pooling - or to have lots more seats! Both of which make IBM-Rocket happy. g I'm still wondering how they can get 175 users through 2 seats -- unless each user does 2 things a day!! My understanding was that you either had to have a seat for each 'logical' connection to a user, or sign off/sign on between each 'thing' - and the overhead for going off and on is INSANE in any way I've tried to make it work... So - I understand your point George -- I am in the same headspace! David W. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Land Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 2:32 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Connection Pooling Statement On 24/09/2009 16:45, Doug dave...@hotmail.com wrote: George, We do not do connection pooling or use multiplexing software. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you did. I was trying to make a general point that you need connection pooling licences if you connection pool however you do it. We scale quite remarkable well. We have 70 user client running a call center with 10 Unidata licenses dedicated to the web. We have a public warehouse client with 4 licenses running 20 users internally and 20 customers externally. We have a 175 user running our CRM system using 2 licenses. There is a general point here though, supporting 175 users on a 2 license system is exactly the situation IBM/Rocket are trying to address by forcing you to have connection pooling licences. Now don't misunderstand me, I'm not accusing you of breaking the letter of the license agreement, but I think it is breaking the intention of it. Quite what 'connection pooling' and 'multiplexing' really is can be debated, but essentially what they want is for you to pay more for databases licenses that support multiple users than you do that are tied to one user. And having a small number of database licenses supporting a large number of users is exactly what you are doing George ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Connection Pooling Statement
It is the exception, you are deemed to be using an approved connection pooling mechanism and a redback webshare costs the same as a connection pooled database license except for the fact that that you need to buy a database license as well as the redback license George On 24/09/2009 23:39, Charles Stevenson stevenson.c...@gmail.com wrote: I'm missing something. We ran Redback without connection pooling. Is that an exception because it's a U2 product or were we in violation? Ross Ferris wrote: Doug, I fear that if you look at the terminology and description that IBM (Rocket may change, but somehow I doubt it) use to describe a connection pool, though you may like to think that your connection manager is different, I fear you may fall foul of their definition and if you look at your 175 user system running off 2 licences you can understand why (I assume that the 175 users also use other stuff, rather than everyone using NOTHING BUT your CRM) ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Worst Case/Best Case
On 17/09/2009 16:19, Charlie Rubeor crub...@1199nefunds.org wrote: Like most guys, I relate best to sports analogies. This feels like getting traded from the Yankees to the Orioles. For those of you across the pond, think of being transferred from Chelsea to West Ham United. It's a good analogy - if you are playing in the third team for the Yankees or Chelsea then getting transferred to the Orioles (whoever they are) or West Ham may be the best thing that happens to you. You get to play in the first team, you get to take part in the big matches, you have a chance of scoring the winning goal against Manchester United in the FA Cup, you get a chance of being noticed. Being somebody in a smaller team can be many times better than being nobody in a big one. George ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Worst Case/Best Case
You can stretch analogies all over the place but in football (soccer) you can play in a non league team and still get the chance to score the winning goal against Man U at Wembley, that's the magic of cup competitions. The key is to get into the first team for whoever you play for, if you don't do that you don't get to play at all. George On 19/09/2009 15:41, Mecki Foerthmann mec...@gmx.net wrote: I don't like sports analogies, and this one seems totally wrong. I heard of the Yankees but I never heard of Orioles, but Chelsea and West Ham are both Premier League clubs as far as I know. IBM is Premier League too, but Rocket Software is definitely not, they are not even in the 2nd division. So our guy didn't get sold to West Ham to get the chance to play in their first team and score the winning goal against Man U. He ended up in some provincial team and won't ever get the chance to play at Wembley at all. George Land wrote: On 17/09/2009 16:19, Charlie Rubeor crub...@1199nefunds.org wrote: Like most guys, I relate best to sports analogies. This feels like getting traded from the Yankees to the Orioles. For those of you across the pond, think of being transferred from Chelsea to West Ham United. It's a good analogy - if you are playing in the third team for the Yankees or Chelsea then getting transferred to the Orioles (whoever they are) or West Ham may be the best thing that happens to you. You get to play in the first team, you get to take part in the big matches, you have a chance of scoring the winning goal against Manchester United in the FA Cup, you get a chance of being noticed. Being somebody in a smaller team can be many times better than being nobody in a big one. George ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Worst Case/Best Case
Well last year in the FA Cup only one of the semi-finalists came from the Premier League, that was Portsmouth. Cardiff, Barnsley and West Bromwich Albion were the other semi-finalists and although West Brom have a history, Cardiff and Barnsley have never troubled the top flight teams before. That's the beauty of cup football, it not only can happen, it does happen. On 19/09/2009 18:05, Mecki Foerthmann mec...@gmx.net wrote: Yeah - and pigs can fly. We're talking professional sport here. But then some people seem to believe that they see real fights in Pro-wrestling too. George Land wrote: You can stretch analogies all over the place but in football (soccer) you can play in a non league team and still get the chance to score the winning goal against Man U at Wembley, that's the magic of cup competitions. The key is to get into the first team for whoever you play for, if you don't do that you don't get to play at all. George On 19/09/2009 15:41, Mecki Foerthmann mec...@gmx.net wrote: I don't like sports analogies, and this one seems totally wrong. I heard of the Yankees but I never heard of Orioles, but Chelsea and West Ham are both Premier League clubs as far as I know. IBM is Premier League too, but Rocket Software is definitely not, they are not even in the 2nd division. So our guy didn't get sold to West Ham to get the chance to play in their first team and score the winning goal against Man U. He ended up in some provincial team and won't ever get the chance to play at Wembley at all. George Land wrote: On 17/09/2009 16:19, Charlie Rubeor crub...@1199nefunds.org wrote: Like most guys, I relate best to sports analogies. This feels like getting traded from the Yankees to the Orioles. For those of you across the pond, think of being transferred from Chelsea to West Ham United. It's a good analogy - if you are playing in the third team for the Yankees or Chelsea then getting transferred to the Orioles (whoever they are) or West Ham may be the best thing that happens to you. You get to play in the first team, you get to take part in the big matches, you have a chance of scoring the winning goal against Manchester United in the FA Cup, you get a chance of being noticed. Being somebody in a smaller team can be many times better than being nobody in a big one. George ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] GOOD NEWS From Susie
My understanding of the logic of this is that the U2 people are so excited about it because it will allow them to invest in product development in a meaningful way. To describe Rocket as a rest home for no longer wanted technology is very harsh, what they are is an OEM specialist. A big part of the problem of IBM and U2 was that U2 is OEM, people acquire it because it is embedded in an application they have bought. IBM don't really do OEM and an issue has been a lack of understanding of how the OEM sales model works. U2 has remained largely outside the IBM structure everywhere except here in the UK. Here there are IBM employees reporting into the mainstream IBM structure who work on U2. As the UK Distributor we work with mainstream IBM people in a U2 context and it is hard, few of the structures, processes and mechanisms match what we do. Meanwhile there is development happening because it is right for IBM, so we got EDA allowing us to store data in DB2. Great but useless, we know and the U2 developers know that SQL Server is where it needs to be but they had to do DB2. Then you get things like UniData 7.2, a release that would probably have been UniData 8 but wasn't because to go to a new release number takes so much hassle in IBM that it would have taken beyond forever to get out. Alongside this you have education which has to go through the IBM education people meaning hardly any training happens because it is too expensive. Organising an event is really hard because people from several countries need to get involved, U2U in the UK last year was a nightmare for that reason. So personally I can understand precisely why Susie and her team wanted this and why they feel that Rocket is the right owner. Rocket do OEM, they provide software that goes into DB2, Tivoli and Rational amongst others. They sell through ISVs, they are used to their products being rebranded and bundled into others, that's largely why none of us have heard of them. Branding is the big issue going forwards, we've lost the IBM brand and that is a big loss. But from a product development and technical perspective the software is going into an environment that is much more suited to it. That is the major positive out of all this, the RD that is now likely to happen directed at what customers need and not what IBM want. As for buying a business to kill, what does happen is people buy them to run them as cash cows but there is no indication that will happen here. Rocket are active developers of their products and there is every sign that they intend to actively develop U2. George On 17/09/2009 08:25, Mecki Foerthmann mec...@gmx.net wrote: George, I think Dawn's emphasis was on survive, and that doesn't necessarily mean thrive. To my ears the Rocket business plan for legacy products sounds more like running a rest home for no longer wanted technology They keep it alive as long as there is a profit to be made from licence and support fees, and when that runs out they let it pass away.. The U2 products will survive OK, but all we're most likely going to get in future are maybe some patches but no new development. Nobody buys a business to kill it? Do hedgefonds managers know that too? George Land wrote: 'It's being so cheerful that keeps me going' Maybe the world is going to end, but this is an initiative that is fully supported by Susie and her team, maybe even initiated by them. You don't buy a business to kill it. There are no assets to strip, all that matters is getting revenue from new licenses and maintenance. Rocket have a track record of preserving and developing the companies they buy, as Dawn said 'It doesn't look like a place that products go to die, but a place they go to survive' If you want to be a pessimist that is your prerogative, but there is nothing here to say the future is worse than it was at the start of the week George On 16/09/2009 21:41, Mecki Foerthmann mec...@gmx.net wrote: I hope you are right. But what if they are not even interested in selling new seats and are quite happy to collect licence and support fees without doing any new development? After all this is corporate America and acquisitions are not necessarily made to drive a product forward. IBM can show some positive figures for the next quarter, share prices might go up and managers can expect nice bonuses and sell some stock options. And for Rocket it may just be another legacy system they acquire and keep supported as it is their business plan. Since Universe and Unidata are so stable, they should be able to do that with very little staff. And a little asset-stripping may more than recover the purchase costs. So everybody wins as far as the investors are concerned. Who cares about the members of the U2 team, VARs and their staff or us MV-professionals who work for U2 end users? I prefer to be a pessimist - at least that way you never get disappointed; and if you
Re: [U2] Worst Case/Best Case
Customers do come and go, the thing with U2 is that you don't see most of the customer base because it's an OEM product, most of the customers run someone's application. That's the market and U2 is becoming just part of the mix for most VARs. Our application is U2 based but the code is increasingly outside the database so we don't really recruit many U2 people any more, we recruit java people. Doesn't mean that U2 isn't a big part of what we do, it just means that coding in UniBasic isn't a big part of it. The future doesn't include a great deal of green screen basic coding but that doesn't mean that it doesn't include U2. If you are a basic coder then the world of work doesn't look too good, you need to reskill, but that can still involve U2. As for maintenance, if people don't get anything from it they won't pay it. Taking the money and doing nothing isn't an option. The thing that is right about this is that the company fit U2, they are a technically orientated company, they sell OEM, they let their subsidiaries get on with it, they have a lot of positives about them. We'll see what happens but there is no need to be down about it, moving from basic coding to something like .NET is the right thing to do. But that doesn't have to mean leaving U2 you can use it as the database in your .NET application, many people do. George On 17/09/2009 15:23, Bessel, Karen karen.bes...@tylertech.com wrote: I don't mean to be Ms. Doom Gloom, but I have to disagree with Chuck. U2 has been headed towards a rest home for years. I've worked for several end-users as well as a few U2 VAR's over the years, and it's pretty apparent to me that it's on its way out. I'd really like to look at this Rocket thing as a positive development, and say, YEAHthis is a GOOD THING, but I think it's time to strip off the rose-colored glasses. The ostrich with its head in the sand thing doesn't work for me any more. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is. The three companies that I have worked for since 2004 have either done away with U2 already, or are currently in the process of doing so. * A HUGE multi-national wholesale distributor in the mid-Atlantic region with THOUSANDS of users all over the US - Unidata - they are moving to SAP. * A small division of ACS in Richmond, VA which doesn't bear mentioning (handful of users) - U2 was phased out and its functionality was replaced with SQL/SSIS. * A VAR with about a hundred government clients in TX GA - porting users to new .NET application over the next two years and phasing UV out entirely. These are three examples of a trend which is continuing all over the country. Changing jobs in the U2 world is like jumping from one lily pad to another - no one (that I've seen) is planning to continue a long term relationship with U2 any more. Myself? I've gone back to school and I'm studying .NET development. Over the next year or two, I'm going to bid UniBasic development a fond adieu in favor of an application development If Rocket wants people to pay maintenance, they will still have to port to new O/S releases where needed, still have to offer upgrades with new features, and still have to employ U2 support people. I hate to point out the obvious but they don't have to do anything with your maintenance fees other than provide support. Upgrades are not a given. Rocket does a lot of IBM mainframe work. So does IBM. So, Rocket offering UnIverse and UnIData to existing (read IBM mainframe mid-size) customers is not a big stretch. IBM could've done this for years and didn't. Rocket has a lot of people with :Engineer in their titles. So does IBM. Why is there an assumption that Rocket is going to do anything more than IBM did with U2 (nothing)? Karen Bessel Software Developer Tyler Technologies, Inc. 6500 International Parkway, Suite 2000 Plano, TX 75093 Phone: 972.713.3770 ext:6227 Fax: 972.713.3780 Email: karen.bes...@tylertech.com Web: http://www.tylertech.com Tyler is proud to be the Platinum Sponsor of The Court Technology Conference 2009 Sept. 22-24, 2009 | Denver, CO ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2 being sold!
It doesn't look like a place that products go to die, but a place they go to survive. Dawn, that's a great desciption George On 16/09/2009 15:41, Dawn Wolthuis dawnwolth...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I read that too, along with seeing IMS mentioned on their site. It doesn't look like a place that products go to die, but a place they go to survive. It will be interesting to see if U2 can thrive under this structure rather than just survive. That was hard for them to do within IBM, so this could be positive, but it is easier for me to put a positive spin on it as someone without a huge stake in U2 these days. --dawn On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:46 AM, Mecki Foerthmann mec...@gmx.net wrote: From the Rocket website: Legacy Product Support In addition to new OEM software ventures, Rocket engages in maintenance and support contracts for existing products to assure long term support for key legacy markets. Legacy product support can often represent a distraction to OEM players that are striving to achieve market dominance in new segments, or simply trying to control costs. Rocket takes complete ownership of the legacy product, from maintenance releases to customer service, ensuring that there is no interruption in service for the end customers. I guess that says it all Symeon Breen wrote: Well what a fine thing to wake up to this morning, Â I agree with many statements here - the IBM name gave it a lot of credibility, tho I persisted with u2 because of (in my opinion) superior functionality compared to other mv databases. The IBM name was even something i could hide behind when asked what database do you run on, (you can see them expecting oracle or sql server) and i just say IBM, that was fine. Rocket ? never heard of them personally - i will have to do some research, it would be interesting to know their structure in terms of funding to purchase u2, what they see is in it for them, how they managed other acquisitions etc. Good to see the management team are still in place, it gives a continuity, as to will they be more successful in driving through what they want to achieve with the rocket board remains to be seen tho ... Symeon. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] GOOD NEWS From Susie
Personally I view it as a very good sign that they are taking a back seat and letting the U2 people get their message out to their customers. Sure a message from the new owners is needed soon but not doing it up front is a sign that they are interested letting the team get on with the business without getting too much in the way George On 16/09/2009 19:33, Charles Stevenson stevenson.c...@gmail.com wrote: Chuck, Impress upon Rocket the need for THEM to make a public statement. It's nice to hear news from you from Susie, and I look forward to reading whatever you post, but, come on, Rocket! the new owners need to say something. Chuck All, I've been speaking to an executive at Rocket and more calls are being scheduled. What I've heard so far is vague (legal reasons) but very upbeat. The next call should contain some genuine news. As I get it, you will get it and it will be posted on U2UG.org. - Charles Staying On The Hunt for Details Barouch ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] GOOD NEWS From Susie
Yes the name isn't great, but then saying IBM didn't do great things in my market either. IBM did nothing much for the product and definitely put a lot of overhead in the process. If you have worked with IBM in trying to plan an event you'd appreciate the amount of junk there is in that organisation. Hopefully Rocket is a smaller, more responsive organisation. We've lost the name but maybe we've gained some product and technical focus and maybe we've got an organisation that will promote the product and understand it. George Land BSc(Hons) MBCS Chairman Business Development Director APT Solutions Ltd Email: george.l...@aptsolutions.co.uk APT Solutions Ltd, Incorporated and registered in England and Wales. Registered office: Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire TF3 3AB. Registered number 2228445. On 16/09/2009 21:22, Martin Scholl msch...@martinscholl.com wrote: GOOD NEWS, my ass. I view this as near catastrophic. Rocket Software, what a bullshit name. Just like Raining Data. With the IBM name came some serious recognition and the instant belief that this is a credible and serious product. With Rocket software, I feel like I am selling $19.95 Billy-Mays-Here specials. Martin Scholl 18910 New Hampshire Ave Brinklow, MD 20862 Phone: 301-924-5537 Cell: 301-613-9572 msch...@martinscholl.com -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Land Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:21 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] GOOD NEWS From Susie Personally I view it as a very good sign that they are taking a back seat and letting the U2 people get their message out to their customers. Sure a message from the new owners is needed soon but not doing it up front is a sign that they are interested letting the team get on with the business without getting too much in the way George On 16/09/2009 19:33, Charles Stevenson stevenson.c...@gmail.com wrote: Chuck, Impress upon Rocket the need for THEM to make a public statement. It's nice to hear news from you from Susie, and I look forward to reading whatever you post, but, come on, Rocket! the new owners need to say something. Chuck All, I've been speaking to an executive at Rocket and more calls are being scheduled. What I've heard so far is vague (legal reasons) but very upbeat. The next call should contain some genuine news. As I get it, you will get it and it will be posted on U2UG.org. - Charles Staying On The Hunt for Details Barouch ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.100/2375 - Release Date: 09/16/09 05:51:00 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] GOOD NEWS From Susie
'It's being so cheerful that keeps me going' Maybe the world is going to end, but this is an initiative that is fully supported by Susie and her team, maybe even initiated by them. You don't buy a business to kill it. There are no assets to strip, all that matters is getting revenue from new licenses and maintenance. Rocket have a track record of preserving and developing the companies they buy, as Dawn said 'It doesn't look like a place that products go to die, but a place they go to survive' If you want to be a pessimist that is your prerogative, but there is nothing here to say the future is worse than it was at the start of the week George On 16/09/2009 21:41, Mecki Foerthmann mec...@gmx.net wrote: I hope you are right. But what if they are not even interested in selling new seats and are quite happy to collect licence and support fees without doing any new development? After all this is corporate America and acquisitions are not necessarily made to drive a product forward. IBM can show some positive figures for the next quarter, share prices might go up and managers can expect nice bonuses and sell some stock options. And for Rocket it may just be another legacy system they acquire and keep supported as it is their business plan. Since Universe and Unidata are so stable, they should be able to do that with very little staff. And a little asset-stripping may more than recover the purchase costs. So everybody wins as far as the investors are concerned. Who cares about the members of the U2 team, VARs and their staff or us MV-professionals who work for U2 end users? I prefer to be a pessimist - at least that way you never get disappointed; and if you happen to be wrong it is always to the better ;-). George Land wrote: Personally I view it as a very good sign that they are taking a back seat and letting the U2 people get their message out to their customers. Sure a message from the new owners is needed soon but not doing it up front is a sign that they are interested letting the team get on with the business without getting too much in the way George On 16/09/2009 19:33, Charles Stevenson stevenson.c...@gmail.com wrote: Chuck, Impress upon Rocket the need for THEM to make a public statement. It's nice to hear news from you from Susie, and I look forward to reading whatever you post, but, come on, Rocket! the new owners need to say something. Chuck All, I've been speaking to an executive at Rocket and more calls are being scheduled. What I've heard so far is vague (legal reasons) but very upbeat. The next call should contain some genuine news. As I get it, you will get it and it will be posted on U2UG.org. - Charles Staying On The Hunt for Details Barouch ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Unidata to Universe port
If you are truly SB (i.e. You have coded all your fields and screens etc. in that environment) then conversion shouldn't be that hard. Fields can be regenerated using SB and so your main issues could be incompatibilities in basic code. Things like using as a variable name something that is OK in UniVerse but a reserved word in UniData. We recently took an SB application from UniVerse to UniData for a client and it took a couple of days including physically transporting the system. You certainly can code in such a way as to be able to run on both platforms, the difficulty is purely in knowing what is compatible with what. Unfortunately I don't think anyone has ever done a guide to what the common ground is. Depending on the size of the application I'd recommend spending a few days and trying it. Some things, like recompiling all your programs, don't take long but do mean that you can find the extent of the problem fairly easily. George Land APT Solutions Ltd U2 UK Master Distributor On 15/08/2008 02:41, Eugene St. Clair [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello: Does any one have any experiences they would be willing to share regarding the effort required to port applications from UniData to Universe? We're currently on Unidata 7.1 We developed our application in an early version of SB+ and UniBasic and have kept current on SB+, so we're now at version 5.4. We've also made use of various connectivity technolgies over time, such as ODBC, OLEDB, and UniObjects. We haven't used the web services or ADO provider yet, but probably will eventually. We are currently running on Windows but a Unix flavor is not out of the question if there is a compelling reason. At this point, I'm just trying to figure out a way to gauge the relative effort, and if there were any surprises, such as better/worse performance, costs, development effort, etc and of course, any gotchas. Also, is it feasible to to code the application in a way that it would work on either platform from the same code base? The reason we're even considering this is because of IBM's decision not to implement NLS in UniData, at least not right away. Of course, we've had conversations with IBM about converting, but would appreciate hearing from any one who has actually done this. thanks in advance. Eugene --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Green Software - Green Business
Here in the UK there is a Government scheme under which you can buy a bicycle tax free so long as your employer has signed up. I don't know the details or anyone who has done it though. George On 31/07/2008 11:27, Susan Joslyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ross, That's funny - and sad. My sister lives in Norway - and maybe that explains why I haven't heard of any other companies doing it. Maybe US companies are concerned with just such a lawsuit! Now who can I sue because the US has developed such a litigious reputation? S Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:00:48 +1000 From: Ross Ferris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: As an observer from across the water, and given the litigious nature I perceive pervading the US, I just wonder what will happen to this initiative the first time an employee is hit injured whilst travelling to work? If the community had bike lanes and/or trails that were JUST for bikes, it would be safer -- unless of course one of the bike riders runs over an innocent pedestrian I'm probably just FAR too cynical :-( Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage Better by Design! --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] OT - Pick mentioned in letter to the editor... [not-secure]
Interesting, it's a shame that what he says isn't really true. George On 08/07/2008 19:59, Hennessey, Mark F. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This appeared in the letters to the editor section of the July 1 Software Development Times HIS PICK FOR AN OS IS CLEAR I read your article about virtualization (Virtualization 3.0, May 15, page 25, or http://tinyurl.com/5j4dnc) with some amusement. I am an old Pick database programmer, and Pick has done virtualization since the 1970s. The Pick OS will load and run on just about any platform, including Microsoft's. It uses built-in tools to create one of the easiest-to-use and most versatile 3D relational database models on the market. Yet, it never merits mention in any of the mainstream media periodicals. Just about every buzzword and acronym you guys punch out every month, Pick has been doing since bell-bottoms and afro hairdos were in style. All the techno-weenies out there owe a great deal of what's happening in their careers to this venerable OS, yet I'll bet less than 5% have ever heard of it. Had Dick Pick not passed away in the mid-1990s, things might have been different today. But wherever you find a Pickie out there, they'll tell you that they wouldn't trade their legacy system for all the whiz-bang buzzword-laden toys in the world. So how about a nod to the good old days once in awhile? Gary Lass Wilsonville, Ore. Mark Hennessey State of Connecticut Department of Social Services Information Technology Services Child Support Systems Voice: 860-424-5261 Fax: 860-424-4813 --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] OT - Pick mentioned in letter to the editor... [not-secure]
I know what you mean, but the concept that Pick did virtualisation in the 70s and that the world would have been a different place if Dick Pick had lived longer are stretching credibility. But there is certainly something in the 'nothing is new' analysis. Years ago mainframes used dumb screens where you typed in a page of data and submitted it. Then over time the input devices started communicating with the server on a field by field basis, then logic started to be loaded to the user's device to run locally. Then we got web pages where you typed in a page of data and submitted it. Over time the web browsers started communicating back on a field by field basis and logic started to be loaded to the user's device to run locally. And so on... George On 09/07/2008 01:07, Clifton Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: laughing That was my first reaction, too. Doesn't seem to know the difference between virtualization and platform independence. My second thought, when the editor lobe of my brain kicked in, was, My. What an 'interesting' attitude and tone to use to try to win over an editor to your viewpoint and get favorable mention in that publication. Regards, Clif ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] OT - Pick mentioned in letter to the editor...
Nothing against the data model. But he wasn't talking about that, he was claiming virtualisation as something Pick did and that the world would have been a different place if Dick Pick was still with us. He also claimed that much of what happens today is due to what happened in Pick many years ago, all of them are a bit of a stretch of the imagination. As a 25 year veteran of this technology, and someone whose company is heavily involved in writing new software with U2, I think it needs to be promoted on it's merits. Amongst those are the data structure and the ability to fit in with other technologies. There is enough that is good to shout about without claiming that the world owes everything to Pick. George On 09/07/2008 01:40, Frank Eperjesi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Curious, what you feel is untrue about what the author said. A few years ago the one of Microsoft's directors of development wrote an article (I believe it was titled One Step Forward, Two steps back) wherein he pointed out how the original Pick Data model was so good. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Land Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 12:19 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] OT - Pick mentioned in letter to the editor... [not-secure] Interesting, it's a shame that what he says isn't really true. George On 08/07/2008 19:59, Hennessey, Mark F. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This appeared in the letters to the editor section of the July 1 Software Development Times HIS PICK FOR AN OS IS CLEAR I read your article about virtualization (Virtualization 3.0, May 15, page 25, or http://tinyurl.com/5j4dnc) with some amusement. I am an old Pick database programmer, and Pick has done virtualization since the 1970s. The Pick OS will load and run on just about any platform, including Microsoft's. It uses built-in tools to create one of the easiest-to-use and most versatile 3D relational database models on the market. Yet, it never merits mention in any of the mainstream media periodicals. Just about every buzzword and acronym you guys punch out every month, Pick has been doing since bell-bottoms and afro hairdos were in style. All the techno-weenies out there owe a great deal of what's happening in their careers to this venerable OS, yet I'll bet less than 5% have ever heard of it. Had Dick Pick not passed away in the mid-1990s, things might have been different today. But wherever you find a Pickie out there, they'll tell you that they wouldn't trade their legacy system for all the whiz-bang buzzword-laden toys in the world. So how about a nod to the good old days once in awhile? Gary Lass Wilsonville, Ore. Mark Hennessey State of Connecticut Department of Social Services Information Technology Services Child Support Systems Voice: 860-424-5261 Fax: 860-424-4813 --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] How to tell if running a subroutine though RedBack
There is a slot where you can specify the name of a program that gets called when a responder starts. We use that to initiate the COMMON block and in there we put REDBACK into one of our common variables and check that everywhere it matters. George Land APT Solutions Ltd UK U2 Distributor www.u2uk.com On 25/06/2008 19:56, Doug Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a need to call a standard subroutine from a RedBack application call. The subroutine is meant to be used in an interactive mode and can prompt the user if there is an error in the data. If the data is coming from RedBack, I want to suppress the prompting and write the error to a log file. Is there any environment variable I can look at to tell if I am executing under the RedBack API call? Thanks Doug This e-mail is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or distribute this e-mail without the author's prior permission. We have taken precautions to minimize the risk of transmitting software viruses, but we advise you to carry out your own virus checks on any attachment to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. Any views and/or opinions expressed in this e-mail are of the author only and do not represent the views of Epicor Software Corporation or any other company within its group. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Record Locking Problem
Agreed, I've not seen anything in this thread that needed fixing. George Land www.u2k.com On 08/05/2008 21:22, Wally Terhune [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: fix what? I didn't follow this very closely as I don't recall even seeing what database or version was referenced (though I may have missed that). If you have a locking defect, please open a support case and report it. Thanks Wally Terhune SWG Client Support - Information Management Software U2 Support Architect b IBM U2 Client Support Team 4700 S. Syracuse St., Denver, CO 80237 Tel: (303) 773-7969 T/L 656-7969 Mobile: (303) 807-6222 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brutzman, Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] ft.comTo Sent by: 'u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org' [EMAIL PROTECTED] u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org stserver.u2ug.org cc Subject 05/08/2008 01:14 RE: [U2] Record Locking Problem PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] er.u2ug.org Thanks to all those who responded, especially Rich Taylor. Perhaps IBM will fix this someday. --Bill --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 25846144.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of graycol.gif] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of pic04887.gif] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of ecblank.gif] --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] comm idea
Yes - we do I'll email off line George On 07/05/2008 14:27, Bob Witney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone used these peoples web service??? Bob Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the named addressee, or the person responsible for delivering the message to the named addressee, please notify the sender as soon as possible and delete the material from your computer. This message will be protected by copyright. If it has come to you in error, you must not take any action based on its contents nor must you copy or show the message to any person other than the intended recipient. _ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Universe compatibility question
10.1.23 is certified on SBS, earlier versions aren't. So make sure you have that release or 10.2.x. George Land www.u2uk.com On 16/04/2008 20:50, David Scoggins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know of any compatibility issues with UV 10.1.x and Windows 2003 Small Business Server and/or MS Exchange? I'm being told by a client that they have been told (by someone) that there is a problem, but I'm not aware of it and Google hasn't helped so far. Thanks. David Scoggins --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Difference between Universe and Unidata
Fundamentally the two databases deliver the same thing, we may each have personal preferences either way but they will both very competently run your application on Windows, Unix or Linux up to several thousand users. Where the choice does make a difference is in some of the more complex facilities. So if you need native language support because you want to sell in to China, for example, then you need UniVerse. If you want full high availability/disaster recovery then, arguably, you would be better off with UniData - similarly if you want EDA to store you data in DB2 then you want UniData. But unless you need these more advanced/obscure facilities it isn't going to make a great deal of difference which you use. George Land www.u2uk.com On 11/04/2008 22:33, waivic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is more like a marking question. I go through the introductions of Universe and Undiata in IBM WebSite. I still have no idea about the difference of these two products execept they are both multivaleue databases. Could anyone give a better explanation about the fundamental difference bewteen Universe and Unidata? ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
[U2] [ad] Event - Inviting all UK U2 users
Hi, I thought this event would be of interest/use to the list. APT is hosting a day at IBM Warwick on 4th March entitled U2 - The Right Investment9. The content of the day will cover items such as U2 product justification and competitive selling, introduce a range of horizontal products that can enhance your application and there will also be a presentation of the U2 product roadmap. In our twentieth year of working with multi-value technology, APT is the recently appointed Master VAR for U2 in the UK and we are working with IBM to promote the technology. The event is free and everyone is welcome to attend. Further information can be found at u2uk.com or register now at http://www.u2uk.com/register I hope you are able to attend and look forward to meeting you there. George Land APT Solutions Limited U2 UK Master VAR www.u2uk.com ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] RE: Switching from D3 to U2
I have had a number of responses directly as well as to the group, I'll be putting together a document on it and will look at publishing it. But if anyone specifically wants a copy please let me know and I'll email it when I have it. george.land@ (remove) u2uk.com George Land APT Solutions Limited IBM U2 UK Distributor www.u2uk.com On 01/02/2008 00:26, MAJ Programming [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I too am interested in this comparison. The majority of my clients are D3 yet I have 1 or 2 UV and UD clients, hence the straddling. I know that U2 products have many more technical features but I would like to see where it gets admin heavy versus D3. Thanks Mark Johnson - Original Message - From: Janet Bond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 12:26 PM Subject: [U2] RE: Switching from D3 to U2 Hello George, We created a report comparing D3 and the U2 products along with other available MultiValue databases for one of our customers. Please email me directly and I can provide this content to you. Thanks Janet Bond FusionWare Corporation IBM Premier Business Partner Microsoft Gold Partner www.fusionware.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Land Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 5:30 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] Switching from D3 to U2 I am in the process of putting together a document to support the case for switching an application from D3 to U2 but my knowledge of D3 is a little old and hazy. Has anyone any product or technical justifications for switching over that they would be willing to share? Thanks George Land APT Solutions Limited IBM U2 UK Distributor www.u2uk.com ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
[U2] Switching from D3 to U2
I am in the process of putting together a document to support the case for switching an application from D3 to U2 but my knowledge of D3 is a little old and hazy. Has anyone any product or technical justifications for switching over that they would be willing to share? Thanks George Land APT Solutions Limited IBM U2 UK Distributor www.u2uk.com ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Cool stuff for a Friday
Another vote for the mac. I use a MacBook Pro with 4Gb RAM, Leopard and Parallels. I use GotoMeeting but from within the Windows VM. Using Parallels in Coherence mode means that Windows apps are available as though they were Mac apps, the drives are accessible in Finder and you have the best of both worlds. Anything not available natively for the Mac you run from Windows but without seeing any difference from a native Mac application. The VM facilities (snapshot etc) in Parallels are great and then Time Machine in Leopard gives a great interface to backups. The transporter tool in Parallels is great too, I ran it on my old Windows laptop, left it overnight and next day I had an exact copy of the Windows installation available to me as virtual machine on my Mac. So long as you get enough RAM (2Gb minimum, 4Gb preferred) there is nothing about it that is a problem George On 24/11/07 04:33, Bill Haskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This reminds me of a question I've been wanting to ask. Does anyone use an Apple (the new leopard O/S with a VM for Windows)? I've been thinking of buying one for my next PC purchase. I need Windows for .NET development, AccuTerm, U2 and mv.NET administration tools, and possibly other stuff. I wonder if I can get Skype, a SFTP client, GoToMeeting, and any other useful stuff, to replace Windows software, for Apple. Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 9:57 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] Cool stuff for a Friday All If any of you haven't seen the magnificent little Asus eee mobile pc yet - mine is now running an 'nLite' version of XP, C# Express 2008, Delphi and - of course - UniVerse :) I'll be getting one for each of the kids... Rgds Brian --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Who has the largest Windows U2 installation?
We weren't involved with the Windows install but the UniData install was just standard, we didn't do anything to it. It's an IBM xseries with 8 processors and 4Gb of RAM. George On 12/9/07 20:33, Marc Harbeson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did you have to do anything special to the installation beyond the normal tune up to U2 paramaters? And with 250 users, how much ram is that box running? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Land Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:41 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Who has the largest Windows U2 installation? We have a 250 user implementation, been running for three or four years now without any problems. We've got another with 120 users, and several more around the 100 mark. With some decent hardware it's fine. George Land www.u2uk.com On 12/9/07 19:15, Marc Harbeson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have 45 Enterprise UniData 6.1 Just looking for examples of just how large some of you have scaled on Win before crossing the boundary into Unix, and if you had any issues if you scaled large scale (say larger than 100 user sessions) :-) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Who has the largest Windows U2 installation?
We have a 250 user implementation, been running for three or four years now without any problems. We've got another with 120 users, and several more around the 100 mark. With some decent hardware it's fine. George Land www.u2uk.com On 12/9/07 19:15, Marc Harbeson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have 45 Enterprise UniData 6.1 Just looking for examples of just how large some of you have scaled on Win before crossing the boundary into Unix, and if you had any issues if you scaled large scale (say larger than 100 user sessions) :-) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
[U2] [AD?] U2 Website
APT Solutions has recently been appointed as the Distributor for U2 software in the UK. To support this we have developed a new website, http://www.u2uk.com. Whilst primarily designed as a source of information and service for our customers it also provides links to other U2 resources such as the U2 user group and the product availability matrix that others may find useful. George Land BSc (Hons) MBCS Business Development Director APT Solutions Ltd +44 (0) 1952 214000 www.aptsolutions.co.uk ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] universe/unidata question
I think it's reaching the point where there aren't a great deal of differences and it's more one of working with the one you know best unless some of the detail stuff matters to you. For example if all the internationalisation stuff matters to you then you need UniVerse. Similarly I think I'm right in saying that UniVerse is ahead on some security excryption issues. But then UniData has EDA if you want to put data out into DB2...and so on. UniData's dynamic files work fine these days although you still have to do a bit of management of them George Land APT Solutions Ltd On 23/7/07 21:24, Doug Chanco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey all, I was wondering if anyone can tell me (or knows of any good sites/articles that talk about) the benefits of universe over unidata (and visa versa). From my universe days I recall that they had lots of file types you could use (if your keys right mostly characters, left heavy with numeric, etc ) which I don't think unidata has and I also seem to recall (form my unidata days) that unidata had a self resizing file (which I also recall did not work too well, by not accounting for growth) Other than that I cannot see the benefits of one over the other and would appreciate any insight anyone would care to share Thanks! Dougc _ Doug Chanco Engineer Developer Senior, TLOTLD Activant Solutions Inc.(tm) Austin, Texas 78746 T: 800-678-5426 F: 512-278-5915 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web site: www.activant.com http://www.activant.com/ _ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Converting static to dynamic
We run pretty much all of our files as dynamic although mainly because we write software for resale and it is much easier for a customer site to be managed if everything is dynamic. The main issue is to try and create the dynamic file at roughly the right size rather than creating it small and letting it grow. It will be quicker to copy and will perform better. Once created we haven't seen any serious performance issues so long as they are managed. It's not as serious as managing a static file but you do still have to keep an eye on them and resize them once in a while George Land APT Solutions Ltd On 24/7/07 09:05, Jonathan Leckie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have two very large files from which I often have to remove data to stop the files reaching the 2GB limit, much as I enjoy removing this data my colleague has suggested that changing these files to be dynamic would mean we could allow them to hold more data and choose when to remove old data rather than be forced to. Does any one have any experiences that they wish to share regarding changing files in this way, e.g. file performance before and after, any practical steps required after conversion etc.? We are running red hat enterprise Linux 3 and unidata 6. ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] U2 University link
My understanding is that the UK price will be changed to #500. Still more than the US ones but better than the #650 shown on the web site and reflective of the fact that it will be more expensive for IBM to deliver it in the UK than in the US. George Land, APT Solutions Ltd On 21/7/07 23:56, Martin Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm... Why is the UK event 50% more expensive than the US version? A quick look at Travelocity shows I could fly out to the New York session for about the same as the price difference. Martin Phillips, Ladybridge Systems Ltd --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] U2 University link
It's shift F3 and shows as a pound sign when I type the message but it's become a hash when the message comes back. But I am typing this on a MacBook. George On 22/7/07 15:25, MAJ Programming [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: George: Is your Shift-4 character the L for pounds and not the $ for dollars, hence using the # character? Interesting. Thanks - Original Message - From: George Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 2:24 AM Subject: Re: [U2] U2 University link My understanding is that the UK price will be changed to #500. Still more than the US ones but better than the #650 shown on the web site and reflective of the fact that it will be more expensive for IBM to deliver it in the UK than in the US. George Land, APT Solutions Ltd On 21/7/07 23:56, Martin Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm... Why is the UK event 50% more expensive than the US version? A quick look at Travelocity shows I could fly out to the New York session for about the same as the price difference. Martin Phillips, Ladybridge Systems Ltd --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Credit Card Verification Software
Brian, It depends on how you want to do it, we have software that works from the mv server (UniData in our case) and posts the data to a payment provider getting the appropriate messages in return. It has the advantage that being server based it can be used by anyone using any device and we can do it on a fixed price basis rather than the usual percentage of transaction value. It would be easiest to talk about it if you are interested. Email me at george dot land at aptsolutions dot co dot uk if you would like to talk George On 28/6/07 08:38, Brian Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All I'm looking for recommendations on credit card verification software that will integrate nicely with an MV application. It needs to perform real-time authorisation, and should support the standard credit cards used in the UK - Diners, Amex and charge cards are not required. Direct or merchant verification will be considered. I've used DataCash in the past and found their stuff easy to use and their staff very helpful, but I need some comparisons. And of course it must be a cost-effective solution. Thanks all! Brian --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Casing Programming
The reason many of us use upper case is that we started on systems that only supported upper case. Then at one time some were case sensitive and some were not, making porting from one place to another a nightmare if you hadn't been consistent. Then factor in that if you do your code in upper case and comments in lower it, arguably, makes it easy to read. So we stick to upper case and don't see it as an issue. George On 11/6/07 18:12, Allen E. Elwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know the english language is pretty much all one case - lower - except for an occasional Capital letter. I'm sorry, but I prefer all upper case. The older you get, the harder it is to remember HOW you spelled a var, even without part of it being capitalized. LOT.NUMBER LOT.NBR LOTNO LOT.NO LOT.NUM LOTNBR LOT LN -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Symeon Breen Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 00:45 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] Casing Programming The udt compiler by default is case sensitive. I use mixed case - always have - if I misspell something it is just as likely to be a letter transposition as it is a case mismatch, + the compiler picks it up anyway. VB is case insensitive so it does not really matter, it is just a nicety of intelisense. I also maintain vb.net apps with notepad, I think it is a skill every vb programmer should have. However I know of many that without intelisense probably could not even program ! Sym. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: 11 June 2007 05:39 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] Casing Programming MAJ wrote Plus, some compilers (D3 for one) complains with 'print' and wants 'PRINT' unless you set up some CASING parameters either in or out of the programs. If you use the COMPILE verb in D3 then compilation is case insensitive. This has been in place for about 15 years. At least with D3 we have the option to decide how we want to code - the DBMS doesn't enforce draconian limitations on the developer like some other environments. T --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registration Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Large Unidata Windows Sites
We have a customer running 250 users on UniData on Windows, have been for three or four years. I wouldn't have a concern installing a 400 user system on new hardware, obviously it depends a little on the application but I wouldn't see it as a problem. George On 30/3/07 19:11, Moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: REPOSTED FOR NON-MEMBER: Bjvrn Eklund [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi there, I'm curious if there are any large sites running Unidata on Windows out there. With large I mean sites with more than 400 concurrent users. We are on Solaris today but have trouble getting staff with Unix competence these days so we are looking onto the possibility of moving to Windows 2003. TIA Bjvrn Eklund --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ George Land Chairman Technical Director APT Solutions Limited ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately on +44 (01952) 214000 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please delete and destroy any copies in any format of this email you may have received in error. The recipient should note that the views contained or expressed within this correspondence do not necessarily reflect those of APT Solutions Limited , it subsidiaries, affiliates or associates. This email and any attachments are not guaranteed to be free from so-called computer viruses and it is recommended that you check for such viruses before down-loading it to your computer equipment. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message or any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Registered Office:- Stratum House, Stafford Park 10, Telford, Shropshire, TF3 3AB Registation Number:- 2228445 Place of Registration: England Wales ** --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
[U2] OFS experience anyone?
We have a situation where we will need to read/write to a DB2 database on AIX from UniData. Hopefully the new EDA facilities in version 7 will give us this but with this being new I'm a little concerned about whether to rely on it - as an alternative has anyone had any success with or thoughts to share about OFS? Regards, George Land Technical Director APT Solutions Limited www.aptsolutions.co.uk http://www.aptsolutions.co.uk --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
[U2] Invoking UniData running a program
We sometimes use the syntax 'udt programname' from the Windows command line to run a program. This usually works fine except on one machine (6.0.12 on Windows) where it runs the LOGIN as though we had just done 'udt'. Does anyone know if there is an option to control this (I can't see one)? Regards, George Land Technical Director APT Solutions Limited www.aptsolutions.co.uk http://www.aptsolutions.co.uk --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Invoking UniData running a program
Unfortunately I don't always want to quit the login if running on the console, I'd only want to do it if the original udt command was followed by something. Regards, George Land Technical Director APT Solutions Limited www.aptsolutions.co.uk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Manu Fernandes Sent: 08 June 2005 18:04 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Invoking UniData running a program You can add this sentence into the LOGIN procedure 001 PA 002 IF @TTY = 'Console' THEN GO END.OF.LOGIN 003 ... 004 END.OF.LOGIN: Manu Fernandes - Original Message - From: George Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 6:38 PM Subject: [U2] Invoking UniData running a program We sometimes use the syntax 'udt programname' from the Windows command line to run a program. This usually works fine except on one machine (6.0.12 on Windows) where it runs the LOGIN as though we had just done 'udt'. Does anyone know if there is an option to control this (I can't see one)? Regards, George Land Technical Director APT Solutions Limited www.aptsolutions.co.uk http://www.aptsolutions.co.uk --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
