Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
We have the ring configuration with licensed links running OSPF without backups on the individual links. We spec our links to be as close to 99.999% at full modulation as possible. We continue to try to create loops in the network. For example, if you have a high-end commercial customer, sell them a backup link to another tower as part of the package. You've now created another link between towers and added another loop to your network. On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack - Show quoted text - Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop. Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though maybe not at full speed. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles. Some links may be less, but I'm not counting on that. I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic. I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring. I can load share across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs. I'll want things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of connectivity in any direction. What would you guys use/suggest? I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but unlicensed may be OK due to the failover capabilities. We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms. What gear would you use? How would you set this up? I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome. Pall park numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low, I'd rather over estimate the costs. thanks, marlon - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
Marlon, Here's the simplest how-to for radio mobile that i know of http://www.dslreports.com/faq/14302 Ed On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 21:20:08 -0800 Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Um, can I pick a location, input some information about my antenna at that area and create a printable map? If I can't do that I've certainly picked the wrong program for what I want to do. I could have sworn that I'd seen coverage maps that were done with rm though. Do you have a suggestion for a product that would do a better job of what I'm trying to do? The only other one I know of was the one that wpcs used to have, but it was something like $50k. There was one that EC used to sell coverage maps from, but I don't remember who made them. Kingston or something like that? Each map was in the thousands as I recall. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Oh, and by the way, Radio Mobile is not a mapping program, it just happens to use maps to display the engineering results it has the ability to calculate. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I understand that. Why do you think I'm even trying to learn it? Still, programmers shouldn't be so danged lazy! How hard can it be to put a good install program in place? Or a map (hey, what a thing for a mapping program to include!) that you can click on to download the data you are interested in marlon - Original Message - From: Mark McElvy mmce...@accubak.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile You may think it is a POS but try and buy something that can do what it can. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Sold! I tried to download the terrain data, but I got the NED instead of the srtm. I don't know which data set to get. WHAT a POS system this is! Also, I don't have paypal. If you'll take a cc or check I'm in. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I'll get you from zero to terrain analysis in about an hour. You'll need to get your SRTM data loaded first - do you know how to do that? We can use ZOHO Web Meeting. Price 100.00 paid via PayPal __ airCloud Communications Broadband for Business Public and Private WiFi Jerry Richardson VP Operations 925-260-4119 _ ConsuWISP RF Topographical Coverage Maps Network Optimization and Planning Network Design and Troubleshooting Installer and Technician Training Please consider the environment before printing this email -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I don't have time (or the desire) to wade through a bunch of documentation. I'll pay someone for their time. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Uhm...ya... Try this... http://www.pizon.org/radio-mobile-tutorial/index.html Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 1:43 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Hi All, I need to learn how to use this program. I can't even figure out how to get started with it (less than user friendly isn't it!) though. Anyone willing to spend some time on the phone and help me figure out the basics? Shoot me your number and a good time to call. thanks, marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
Marlon, Honestly, based on the questions you are asking, I think you may be in over your head on this project. You may want to seek some help from someone that has actually done this type of work and knows what they are doing. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" t...@ida.net To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles. Some links may be less, but I'm not counting on that. I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic. I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring. I can load share across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs. I'll want things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of connectivity in any direction. What would you guys use/suggest? I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but unlicensed may be OK due to the failover capabilities. We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms. What gear would you use? How would you set this up? I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome. Pall park numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low, I'd rather over estimate the costs. thanks, marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tower colocation request
I'll echo what Tom has said. I was successful in working with municipalities when was I was able to show benefit to them. Your constituents don't just want this they need this. Ask a number of folks who actually want the service to attend the board meeting for support. They heard loud and clear what they needed. I was even able to reduce our fees for the tanks by showing losses for as long as a year until we were able to gain enough customers to pay the lease and some of the equipment costs back . We pay anywhere from $150 per water tank through $350 per tank and are located on 10 tanks across three water districts. Some are easier to work with than others. Something we have done for one of the water companies is use our systems to transmit control data to and from tanks for them - a big savings for them. We now maintain all their radio communications for them. We adjusted their antennas moved by a hurricane last year, we physically look at their tanks every time we are on site. I don't have one water company I work for that has anyone on staff willing to climb a tank. If a problem appears we notify them and also notify them prior to going on any of their sites - they like that. One thing to remember about water tanks - they are very expensive to build and maintain - as much as 250K to paint. We've had a few board members continue to vote no for lease renewals based on benefit vs risk. They have said that for the few hundred they get from us - it just doesn't justify the risk. The primary purpose is to deliver water. We proposed nothing but hot dipped galvanized parts or stainless steel equipment on the tanks, and are on the hook if we damage the tank. They hate seeing rust run down the side of a tank - very unsightly. We have never been able to do any welding on tanks - but now - new tanks that are built - we work with the engineers to design mounts for us to use prior to construction. Hope this helps. David Hulsebus Portative Technologies www.portative.com Michael Baird wrote: Tom, Thanks this is just the sort of information I was looking for. I was also looking for maybe some notes or documentation from someone who's done the presentation dance in front of the municipality. Regards Michael Baird The goal is to learn what the muni's objective is. Their objective is not always to enable broadband expansion. Sometimes a small town cares more about generating a new source of revenue. Your goal is to changed the perspective that they'll want to charge you $2000/month to co-locate, to one that they want to give you space for free, because of the economic development need to the community to deliver broadband. You'll want to be friend influencial people in the community, and get them excited about broadband. You'll want to document competence for the water tower work. Address concerns for safety, cosmetic appeal, and potential damage to the water tower. You'll want to document insurance. But mostly, you'll want to document the need for your services in the community. And you'll want to offer a direct benefit to the town government as well. (For example, inkind trade worth of broadband service to a few key public venues). You'll also want to research the zoning options for constructing towers, so you know what your alternatives are, if the town board is not cooperative. Make sure you have a long term agreement to co-locate.(For example 5 years renewable for up to 20 years.) Make sure your agreement has first-in non-intererence clauses, specifiying the spectrum ranges that you will be using. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:49 AM Subject: [WISPA] Tower colocation request Hi guys, we are looking to deploy a wifi system on a local water tower to service and underserved area. This will be our first experience dealing with a new municipality and we have it slated for a board agenda. I was wondering if there were standard proposals out there to use, or if someone had an example they were willing to share, of what information they provide to the municipality, or what to pay attention to when trying to get space on the tower. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 3/1/2009 5:46 PM
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop. Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though maybe not at full speed. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles. Some links may be less, but I'm not counting on that. I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic. I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring. I can load share across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs. I'll want things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of connectivity in any direction. What would you guys use/suggest? I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but unlicensed may be OK due to the failover capabilities. We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms. What gear would you use? How would you set this up? I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome. Pall park numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low, I'd rather over estimate the costs. thanks, marlon - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
I liked the idea of running a bridged backhaul. Is that not practical for this? I'm hoping to have much lower latency and administrative overhead (less routes to try and keep track of). thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: can...@believewireless.net p...@believewireless.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 4:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul We have the ring configuration with licensed links running OSPF without backups on the individual links. We spec our links to be as close to 99.999% at full modulation as possible. We continue to try to create loops in the network. For example, if you have a high-end commercial customer, sell them a backup link to another tower as part of the package. You've now created another link between towers and added another loop to your network. On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack - Show quoted text - Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop. Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though maybe not at full speed. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles. Some links may be less, but I'm not counting on that. I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic. I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring. I can load share across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs. I'll want things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of connectivity in any direction. What would you guys use/suggest? I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but unlicensed may be OK due to the failover capabilities. We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms. What gear would you use? How would you set this up? I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome. Pall park numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low, I'd rather over estimate the costs. thanks, marlon - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
Grin. You could well be right. I'm certainly into some new ground here. I'm interested in people's opinions and what they've done (if anyone has of yet) in the past. I can learn and figure this out. It's interesting to me too. But if you know of someone that is available for hire I may be able to put them to use here. I'd rather not forget to ask questions or massively underestimate the costs involved! thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 6:36 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Honestly, based on the questions you are asking, I think you may be in over your head on this project. You may want to seek some help from someone that has actually done this type of work and knows what they are doing. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles. Some links may be less, but I'm not counting on that. I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic. I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring. I can load share across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs. I'll want things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of connectivity in any direction. What would you guys use/suggest? I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but unlicensed may be OK due to the failover capabilities. We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms. What gear would you use? How would you set this up? I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome. Pall park numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low, I'd rather over estimate the costs. thanks, marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
A little difficult to do load balancing on a bridge. No way to determine where the traffic goes. You still have to manage STP (Spanning Tree Protocol) to some degree to make sure you don't get loops. You don't have to administer routes after initial setup with OSPF. That is the point, OSPF determines the route to use and the data moves. Depends on equipment used whether routed or bridged has lower latency. A fast router can move data faster than a slow bridge/hub/switch. Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I liked the idea of running a bridged backhaul. Is that not practical for this? I'm hoping to have much lower latency and administrative overhead (less routes to try and keep track of). thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: can...@believewireless.net p...@believewireless.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 4:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul We have the ring configuration with licensed links running OSPF without backups on the individual links. We spec our links to be as close to 99.999% at full modulation as possible. We continue to try to create loops in the network. For example, if you have a high-end commercial customer, sell them a backup link to another tower as part of the package. You've now created another link between towers and added another loop to your network. On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack - Show quoted text - Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop. Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though maybe not at full speed. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles. Some links may be less, but I'm not counting on that. I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic. I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring. I can load share across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs. I'll want things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of connectivity in any direction. What would you guys use/suggest? I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but unlicensed may be OK due to the failover capabilities. We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms. What gear would you use? How would you set this up? I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome. Pall park numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low, I'd rather over estimate the costs. thanks, marlon - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? I'd suggest using a router at each main tower. That can provide the load sharing/balancing plus the other network management functions that you will need. I'd suggest contacting Dennis Burgess or Butch Evans and paying either of them for a few hours of consulting services now so you can get a first-pass network design that can be fine-tuned later. It will save you a lot of time and frustration and give you the knowledge and confidence that you need now to move forward efficiently. If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop. Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though maybe not at full speed. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles. Some links may be less, but I'm not counting on that. I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic. I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring. I can load share across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs. I'll want things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of connectivity in any direction. What would you guys use/suggest? I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but unlicensed may be OK due to the failover capabilities. We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms. What gear would you use? How would you set this up? I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome. Pall park numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low, I'd rather over
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
Right. I get that part. But I've never used it out here so I don't know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree. I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower sites. Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs. If I have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference. Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop. Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though maybe not at full speed. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles. Some links may be less, but I'm not counting on that. I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic. I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring. I can load share across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs. I'll want things to be automatically self
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
You will need routing. Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Right. I get that part. But I've never used it out here so I don't know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree. I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower sites. Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs. If I have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference. Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: "Mike Hammett" wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Marlon K. Schafer" o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve "committee" is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers. marlon - Original Message - From: "Brian Webster" bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop. Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though maybe not at full speed. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" t...@ida.net To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles. Some links may be less, but I'm not counting on that. I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic. I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring. I can load share across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs. I'll want things to be automatically self
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
You can buy a hardenend L3 Switch that would perform OSPF Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Right. I get that part. But I've never used it out here so I don't know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree. I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower sites. Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs. If I have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference. Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop. Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though maybe not at full speed. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
Butch does a lot of work for me already. I'll touch base with him. Do you see anything here that you'd be a good resource for? laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? I'd suggest using a router at each main tower. That can provide the load sharing/balancing plus the other network management functions that you will need. I'd suggest contacting Dennis Burgess or Butch Evans and paying either of them for a few hours of consulting services now so you can get a first-pass network design that can be fine-tuned later. It will save you a lot of time and frustration and give you the knowledge and confidence that you need now to move forward efficiently. If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop. Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though maybe not at full speed. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles. Some links may be less, but I'm not counting on that. I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic. I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring. I can load share across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs. I'll want things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of connectivity in any direction. What would you guys use/suggest? I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
Mikrotik makes pretty good gear. Depending on traffic, I'd put an RB493AH in there. Should be able to do anything you needed to do without great concern for the weather. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Right. I get that part. But I've never used it out here so I don't know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree. I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower sites. Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs. If I have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference. Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop. Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though maybe not at full speed. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
For 3.65 I'd say you need to look at Aperto and Redline... they seem to be the market leaders. My preference is for Aperto though (and not just because we resell it :-) The only Mobile 4.9GHz systems that I know of are Mesh based. Motorola's MotoMesh with the MEA architecture is probably what your looking for (I'm assuming Police/Fire). You could probably also create something with the new PTMP 4.9GHz gear from Moto... but it's not going to be turnkey by any stretch of the imagination. There isn't that many players in 4.9GHz outside of Point to Point... and I think Moto probably is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition in that space (since they already own the two way business its an easy sell to by the 4.9GHz gear from Moto too). If you want more information... feel free to contact me offlist Marlon (dan...@3-db.net) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might be upgraded in the future to higher speeds... I would go RB1000 Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Mikrotik makes pretty good gear. Depending on traffic, I'd put an RB493AH in there. Should be able to do anything you needed to do without great concern for the weather. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Right. I get that part. But I've never used it out here so I don't know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree. I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower sites. Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs. If I have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference. Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop. Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though maybe not at full speed. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K.
Re: [WISPA] NS2 and EOC-2610
I saw the same results a month ago when I bought a few of the EOC-2610. Make sure you're using the latest firmware. http://www.engeniustech.com/datacom/products/resources.aspx?cat=7ID=246 That problem went away after I flashed them, and they work great. Pat Blair Davis wrote: Some interesting results from a side by side comparison of these radios... ubquity NS2 firmware XS2.ar2316.v3.1.1.3498.080725.1324 ap sees radio at -77 radio sees ap at -76 EnGenius EOC-2610 firmware 1.0.30 ap sees radio at -76 radio sees ap at -89 Transfer rates are within 5% of each other Error rate is within 1% a couple of older radios I had on hand, hooked to an 9db patch, mounted in the same place as the NS2/EOC-2610, reported rssi values within 3 db or the NS2. Looks like the reported rssi on the EOC-2610 is off quite a bit. Comments? Blair WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers. This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower - the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers. Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
Marlon, I can assist with any of the unlicensed (2.4, 5.8) or light-licensed (3.65) or 4.9 RF design work. Since you will be carrying public safety traffic, I'd go licensed on the backbone with 5.8 GHz backup as Travis and Brian suggest. For those full-licensed links I'd suggest contacting and comparing quotes from at least two companies that are experienced distributors of licensed equipment. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Butch does a lot of work for me already. I'll touch base with him. Do you see anything here that you'd be a good resource for? laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" jun...@ask-wi.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? I'd suggest using a router at each main tower. That can provide the load sharing/balancing plus the other network management functions that you will need. I'd suggest contacting Dennis Burgess or Butch Evans and paying either of them for a few hours of consulting services now so you can get a first-pass network design that can be fine-tuned later. It will save you a lot of time and frustration and give you the knowledge and confidence that you need now to move forward efficiently. If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve "committee" is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers. marlon - Original Message - From: "Brian Webster" bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop. Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though maybe not at full speed. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" t...@ida.net To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles. Some links may be less, but I'm not counting on that. I'll
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
Then perhaps depending on port count required, the RB450 supports Gigabit, though I don't know what it's throughput is capable of. I'm not sure on the RB1000's outdoor ability. I'm not saying it's no good, I just don't know. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:47 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might be upgraded in the future to higher speeds... I would go RB1000 Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Mikrotik makes pretty good gear. Depending on traffic, I'd put an RB493AH in there. Should be able to do anything you needed to do without great concern for the weather. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Right. I get that part. But I've never used it out here so I don't know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree. I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower sites. Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs. If I have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference. Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for links when you
[WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless
We've seen a drop in signal on all of our connections off of one AP. In the beginning, connections were at -70(ish) for all CPEs. Now they're at -85(ish) and not really usable. We've replaced several boards radio cards ($250 a pop for one of these radios), both at the AP and at the client (both AP clients are Valemount WAR4's). Using Pac Wireless 3.5 grids on clients Pac Wireless 3.5 VPol sector at the AP. Upon advice from Ubiquiti, we've grounded every point that could be grounded (including antenna and card). We've sent 5 of the radios back to Ubiquiti for testing to see if there's a problem with them. I'm wondering if any of you have seen the same things??? Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Hyperlink Coax Jumpers
We have had about 6 of these fail in the last few months, whereas prior to that we don't recall a problem. They are 2-ft NM-NM LMR195 jumpers from Hyperlink. Anyone else have a problem? Any recommendations on best source for them? We normally only use them on backhauls APs, so when they go bad it's a big frustrating problem. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Hyperlink Coax Jumpers
I have used custom made ones from Tessco as well as the pre mades ones from Wisp Router and other places. The last few years I have not had any problems though it may have been due to the fact we put so much coax seal around them. Do you seal it with coax seal (or comparable material)? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: We have had about 6 of these fail in the last few months, whereas prior to that we don't recall a problem. They are 2-ft NM-NM LMR195 jumpers from Hyperlink. Anyone else have a problem? Any recommendations on best source for them? We normally only use them on backhauls APs, so when they go bad it's a big frustrating problem. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
I'll tell you what my perfect tower site router would be for this. PC based, runs on 12vdc (so we can run everything from car batteries) and has gigE ethernet ports by the gross. Then we can route or bridge as needed based on the requirements of the distribution radio that's plugged into it. Lots of processor and memory power this way too! Maybe based on a Dell server Am I dreaming? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might be upgraded in the future to higher speeds... I would go RB1000 Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Mikrotik makes pretty good gear. Depending on traffic, I'd put an RB493AH in there. Should be able to do anything you needed to do without great concern for the weather. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Right. I get that part. But I've never used it out here so I don't know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree. I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower sites. Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs. If I have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference. Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental
Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless
One AP with one radio or multiple radios in the same AP? First thought is a wet connector to tha antenna __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless We've seen a drop in signal on all of our connections off of one AP. In the beginning, connections were at -70(ish) for all CPEs. Now they're at -85(ish) and not really usable. We've replaced several boards radio cards ($250 a pop for one of these radios), both at the AP and at the client (both AP clients are Valemount WAR4's). Using Pac Wireless 3.5 grids on clients Pac Wireless 3.5 VPol sector at the AP. Upon advice from Ubiquiti, we've grounded every point that could be grounded (including antenna and card). We've sent 5 of the radios back to Ubiquiti for testing to see if there's a problem with them. I'm wondering if any of you have seen the same things??? Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless
One AP with one radio. We've gone through the moisture issue. Originally, Ubiquiti thought that the radios were taking in too much static and we needed to DC-ground each piece of equipment. We did that, bought new radios, but still couldn't get back to our original signal levels. How about antennas? Anyone have suggestions on base station antennas? I believe the pac antenna is a 120* VPol sector antenna. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless One AP with one radio or multiple radios in the same AP? First thought is a wet connector to tha antenna __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless We've seen a drop in signal on all of our connections off of one AP. In the beginning, connections were at -70(ish) for all CPEs. Now they're at -85(ish) and not really usable. We've replaced several boards radio cards ($250 a pop for one of these radios), both at the AP and at the client (both AP clients are Valemount WAR4's). Using Pac Wireless 3.5 grids on clients Pac Wireless 3.5 VPol sector at the AP. Upon advice from Ubiquiti, we've grounded every point that could be grounded (including antenna and card). We've sent 5 of the radios back to Ubiquiti for testing to see if there's a problem with them. I'm wondering if any of you have seen the same things??? Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
The way we have it set up is that each agency - city, county fire, sheriff has it's own SSID on the radio that is assigned to a unique VLAN. The radio handles the VLAN tagging and forwards it either out the Ethernet port or the backhaul radio (if it's a dual radio). We have 11 SSID/VLAN combinations running across the network and it works fine. I am not administering the MobileIP so I would not be the best person to help you with that. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers. This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower - the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers. Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture (developed for the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car to be traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work. Plus to modems you install in the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can connect to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can mesh through another car to work. I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a homebrew solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete turnkey package available (not that any of it is cheap!) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers. This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower - the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers. Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
That would be the upcomming RB450G, Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Then perhaps depending on port count required, the RB450 supports Gigabit, though I don't know what it's throughput is capable of. I'm not sure on the RB1000's outdoor ability. I'm not saying it's no good, I just don't know. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:47 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might be upgraded in the future to higher speeds... I would go RB1000 Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Mikrotik makes pretty good gear. Depending on traffic, I'd put an RB493AH in there. Should be able to do anything you needed to do without great concern for the weather. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Right. I get that part. But I've never used it out here so I don't know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree. I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower sites. Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs. If I have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference. Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers.
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
Are you doing this with mobility though? How are you doing the car installations? What about LOS issues considering the low power of 4.9GHz? Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 The way we have it set up is that each agency - city, county fire, sheriff has it's own SSID on the radio that is assigned to a unique VLAN. The radio handles the VLAN tagging and forwards it either out the Ethernet port or the backhaul radio (if it's a dual radio). We have 11 SSID/VLAN combinations running across the network and it works fine. I am not administering the MobileIP so I would not be the best person to help you with that. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers. This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower - the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers. Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
Yes you are A dell server running DC will requiere tons of Amps ... Take a look at the offerings of Mikrotik Routerboard series: www.routerboard.com Specifically the RB450G and RB1000 both have gige ports, very low dc power consuption and at least enough CPU/Ram to run OSPF, BGP, even MPLS in the 100 mbps range ... Butch should be able configure them with OSPF and off you go .. For licensed Link I would look into Dragonwave Horizon Compact's or Trango Apex units Unlicensed Backups.. Motorola PTP 600 units Man this project starst to sound like my backbone! Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul I'll tell you what my perfect tower site router would be for this. PC based, runs on 12vdc (so we can run everything from car batteries) and has gigE ethernet ports by the gross. Then we can route or bridge as needed based on the requirements of the distribution radio that's plugged into it. Lots of processor and memory power this way too! Maybe based on a Dell server Am I dreaming? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might be upgraded in the future to higher speeds... I would go RB1000 Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Mikrotik makes pretty good gear. Depending on traffic, I'd put an RB493AH in there. Should be able to do anything you needed to do without great concern for the weather. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Right. I get that part. But I've never used it out here so I don't know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree. I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower sites. Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs. If I have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference. Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
In this case, it's 2.4GHz to the clients. The cars have Laptops with 3 radios: - Aironet PCMCIA diversity connectors and antennas on the dash - Cellular cards - Low speed radios The system on the laptop automatically tries to connect to WiFi first, then the cellular, then finally the low speed radio if needed. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:57 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Are you doing this with mobility though? How are you doing the car installations? What about LOS issues considering the low power of 4.9GHz? Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 The way we have it set up is that each agency - city, county fire, sheriff has it's own SSID on the radio that is assigned to a unique VLAN. The radio handles the VLAN tagging and forwards it either out the Ethernet port or the backhaul radio (if it's a dual radio). We have 11 SSID/VLAN combinations running across the network and it works fine. I am not administering the MobileIP so I would not be the best person to help you with that. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers. This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower - the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers. Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
The RB1000s we've used have worked well in outdoor environments. We've had them in cases so hot we have burned ourselves touching them. However, to start, I'd start with the new RB450Gs from Mikrotik. They are cheap and should handle about 200+Mbps w/OSPF running.If you need BGP, definitely go with the PoweRouter from Dennis Burgess at Linktech since it's dual core. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
The network is a mix of Vivato and GO Networks, both of which are out of business. We are going to test Deliberant DuoMesh in a small downtown network to see if it will meet our requirements. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:46 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Hmmm, that sounds like a great way to do this part of the project. What hardware are you using? thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 The way we have it set up is that each agency - city, county fire, sheriff has it's own SSID on the radio that is assigned to a unique VLAN. The radio handles the VLAN tagging and forwards it either out the Ethernet port or the backhaul radio (if it's a dual radio). We have 11 SSID/VLAN combinations running across the network and it works fine. I am not administering the MobileIP so I would not be the best person to help you with that. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers. This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower - the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers. Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
It's not real mesh though, it uses WDS to bridge traffic from one radio to the next. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 The network is a mix of Vivato and GO Networks, both of which are out of business. We are going to test Deliberant DuoMesh in a small downtown network to see if it will meet our requirements. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:46 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Hmmm, that sounds like a great way to do this part of the project. What hardware are you using? thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 The way we have it set up is that each agency - city, county fire, sheriff has it's own SSID on the radio that is assigned to a unique VLAN. The radio handles the VLAN tagging and forwards it either out the Ethernet port or the backhaul radio (if it's a dual radio). We have 11 SSID/VLAN combinations running across the network and it works fine. I am not administering the MobileIP so I would not be the best person to help you with that. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers. This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower - the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers. Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
Right - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:56 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul That would be the upcomming RB450G, Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Then perhaps depending on port count required, the RB450 supports Gigabit, though I don't know what it's throughput is capable of. I'm not sure on the RB1000's outdoor ability. I'm not saying it's no good, I just don't know. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:47 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might be upgraded in the future to higher speeds... I would go RB1000 Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Mikrotik makes pretty good gear. Depending on traffic, I'd put an RB493AH in there. Should be able to do anything you needed to do without great concern for the weather. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Right. I get that part. But I've never used it out here so I don't know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree. I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower sites. Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs. If I have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference. Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas
Re: [WISPA] NS2 and EOC-2610
They do work fine. I have 1.0.30 firmware (2/5/09) on them and the rssi is still way off I'll try the 1.0.25 from 1/13/2009 Blair Pat O'Connor wrote: I saw the same results a month ago when I bought a few of the EOC-2610. Make sure you're using the latest firmware. http://www.engeniustech.com/datacom/products/resources.aspx?cat=7ID=246 That problem went away after I flashed them, and they work great. Pat Blair Davis wrote: Some interesting results from a side by side comparison of these radios... ubquity NS2 firmware XS2.ar2316.v3.1.1.3498.080725.1324 ap sees radio at -77 radio sees ap at -76 EnGenius EOC-2610 firmware 1.0.30 ap sees radio at -76 radio sees ap at -89 Transfer rates are within 5% of each other Error rate is within 1% a couple of older radios I had on hand, hooked to an 9db patch, mounted in the same place as the NS2/EOC-2610, reported rssi values within 3 db or the NS2. Looks like the reported rssi on the EOC-2610 is off quite a bit. Comments? Blair WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
Hmmm, can you price a system like this out? I'll need per tower and per node prices. Out here we'll probably be better off with a less expensive homebrew system due to long term costs though marlon - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture (developed for the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car to be traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work. Plus to modems you install in the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can connect to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can mesh through another car to work. I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a homebrew solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete turnkey package available (not that any of it is cheap!) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers. This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower - the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers. Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
We're not looking for 100% coverage. We know that won't happen. We'll get as close as we can afford though. As for mobility that's yet to be determined. Back in 2001 when we first did cop car setups mobility wasn't an issue because the car would just keep it's bridged ip addy. This network design has routed towers so I'm not sure. It may be as easy as running multiple ip addys in the car though. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Are you doing this with mobility though? How are you doing the car installations? What about LOS issues considering the low power of 4.9GHz? Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 The way we have it set up is that each agency - city, county fire, sheriff has it's own SSID on the radio that is assigned to a unique VLAN. The radio handles the VLAN tagging and forwards it either out the Ethernet port or the backhaul radio (if it's a dual radio). We have 11 SSID/VLAN combinations running across the network and it works fine. I am not administering the MobileIP so I would not be the best person to help you with that. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers. This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower - the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers. Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless
Re: [WISPA] AGENDA FOR MARCH 10
Marlon, I feel for the point, that you are trying to make. Nobody wants to sit idle. But the reality is that we don;t control the shots, nor do we authorize the appointments. We can just request them. Secondly, If we had 5-10 people sitting around a desk in one place, for a day, I agree we'd effectively and quickly get alot written as a group. But we do not have the luxur to work in that environment, and still include our diverse national membership's interests. That challenges group writting. But we do have what I feel is a good first step with a group position, and its what we submitted to legislators last month, and included consensus from all members of the committee. I can assure you two things 1. Our face-to-face meeting requests are submitted, and we should get our meeting request granted shortly after the public meeting on the 10th. 2. WISPA legislative committee and/or council will submit questions to agencies prior to the public meeting on the 10th, if there are questions to be asked. Policy makers will not accept being dictated to, how to run their programs. Thats already been discussed here as a committee. The ideal situation is to be asked for our opinion. That happened by GAO :-) The reality is that we've requested our meeting, and we'll get our chance to suggest recommendation, soon. Steve Smith hit on a core point, that as individuals, we DO want to use our personal contacts and avenues to get input to the policy makers. It opimizes the chance that we'll get input heard. What we also want, are clear messages that support each other, instead of contradict each other. Committee, I have a plan. The plan is we follow the proceedure asked by policy makers. We show up for the group public meeting the 10th and learn. We should have 4 WISPA members going, that I know of. Ready to ask question or make statements, IF the policy makers allows time for it. And immediately after I will work with Steve Coran, to formulate our strategy for moving forward, and discuss the core items that we'll want to focus on in our new position papers, and share that proposed agenda with committee members, for their input and consensus. That is what I believe is required to effectively make headway with policy makers. Marlon, I agree that that plan, leaves members somewhat idle, in the week interim. There is no reason for you or anyone to sit idle, that wants to contribute time today. I have the following suggestions for ANYONE that wants to get to work today. 1) Take WISPA's existing position paper sent to legislators, and expand on it. Write down anything new that you feel should be added to that paper, that is not included, and needs to. (I already have a few items in mind, based on committee's past input, but do not have it on paper). 2) Make an outline of what you feel are topics/possitions that we should submit to RUS versus NTIA. We will likely have different goals for each target Grantor. 3) Submit any questions that you may have to ask policy makers, based on what we currently know, and submit them to Steve Coran for review. (I recommend CCing the legislative list, when sending to Steve). This will prevent duplications, and allow us to include all questions, that are not in conflict, with WISPA's submitted questions. However, we need questions, if we are going to submit them. Policy makers asked for questions in advance. If you have questions, I highly recommend that you write them ASAP, so there is time for Steve to review and send to NTIA/RUS prior to the public meeting. It will be pointless to send them, if they are not asked soon. I'd recommend that we should send these questions no later than Friday, to give policy makers time to review before public meeting. And I'd recommend they get sent to Steve today and tommorrow, to give him chance to review them. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Steve Smith st...@chase3000.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Cc: grantscommit...@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] AGENDA FOR MARCH 10 I suspect that Tom is correct in that very few questions will get to be asked at the March 10 meeting. Looking at the agenda it will be mostly speeches by representatives from the various agencies. Since they have the money, I also suspect that they will be the ones telling us how it works rather than asking us for suggestions. I think we are mostly past the input stage. Instead I think they are scrambling to put together the procedures they will use to evaluate any proposals they get. There are a lot of people wanting information and I kind of visualize it as feeding time at the fish farm. They are going to throw some money in the pond and there will be a feeding frenzy. I will send my questions to them via multiple channels and hope some of them get asked and
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
Not only is the power consumption an issue for servers, they are designed for a office environment. They run best at 68-75F, lots of air flow. Servers generate a lot of heat. Less if they are green, but still a lot compared to other devices. They also have way too many moving parts. Disk drives and fans are usually the first things to die because they move. And both are critical to the operation of the server. I would recommend something without moving parts and designed for DC operation, though not 12VDC. Probably due to lower current requirements, I find most gear works better at 24VDC than 12VDC. Car batteries are still an option, you just put 2 in series for 24VDC. Though here again, I would use batteries designed for what you are doing. Car batteries are designed for a high current, short duration usage, then charge for a while. You need batteries that are designed to provide low current for a long time and that can be fully discharged repeatedly without degradation. Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I'll tell you what my perfect tower site router would be for this. PC based, runs on 12vdc (so we can run everything from car batteries) and has gigE ethernet ports by the gross. Then we can route or bridge as needed based on the requirements of the distribution radio that's plugged into it. Lots of processor and memory power this way too! Maybe based on a Dell server Am I dreaming? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might be upgraded in the future to higher speeds... I would go RB1000 Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Mikrotik makes pretty good gear. Depending on traffic, I'd put an RB493AH in there. Should be able to do anything you needed to do without great concern for the weather. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Right. I get that part. But I've never used it out here so I don't know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree. I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower sites. Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs. If I have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference. Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
You are right with the main line of severs. Something to keep in mind is that the PowerRouter's only moving parts are the fans to keep the CPU and Power supply cool . We have DC units now as well. The units run about 85 watts of power normally. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Scott Reed wrote: Not only is the power consumption an issue for servers, they are designed for a office environment. They run best at 68-75F, lots of air flow. Servers generate a lot of heat. Less if they are green, but still a lot compared to other devices. They also have way too many moving parts. Disk drives and fans are usually the first things to die because they move. And both are critical to the operation of the server. I would recommend something without moving parts and designed for DC operation, though not 12VDC. Probably due to lower current requirements, I find most gear works better at 24VDC than 12VDC. Car batteries are still an option, you just put 2 in series for 24VDC. Though here again, I would use batteries designed for what you are doing. Car batteries are designed for a high current, short duration usage, then charge for a while. You need batteries that are designed to provide low current for a long time and that can be fully discharged repeatedly without degradation. Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I'll tell you what my perfect tower site router would be for this. PC based, runs on 12vdc (so we can run everything from car batteries) and has gigE ethernet ports by the gross. Then we can route or bridge as needed based on the requirements of the distribution radio that's plugged into it. Lots of processor and memory power this way too! Maybe based on a Dell server Am I dreaming? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might be upgraded in the future to higher speeds... I would go RB1000 Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Mikrotik makes pretty good gear. Depending on traffic, I'd put an RB493AH in there. Should be able to do anything you needed to do without great concern for the weather. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Right. I get that part. But I've never used it out here so I don't know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree. I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower sites. Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs. If I have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference. Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
BTW, we can do 12/24 volt DC with the R1 that we were discussing. Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul I'll tell you what my perfect tower site router would be for this. PC based, runs on 12vdc (so we can run everything from car batteries) and has gigE ethernet ports by the gross. Then we can route or bridge as needed based on the requirements of the distribution radio that's plugged into it. Lots of processor and memory power this way too! Maybe based on a Dell server Am I dreaming? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might be upgraded in the future to higher speeds... I would go RB1000 Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Mikrotik makes pretty good gear. Depending on traffic, I'd put an RB493AH in there. Should be able to do anything you needed to do without great concern for the weather. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Right. I get that part. But I've never used it out here so I don't know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree. I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower sites. Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs. If I have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference. Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Certainly Jack. I don't know anyone that's built something like this already though. And, it's really not that far off from what we already do. It's just bigger and faster. I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in what people would install. I know there are a few people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place. The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers. Should that be done via high end switch or router? If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together please feel free to have them contact me. Please note, that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts. The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific. Did I say that at all clearly? Does it make sense? That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans in place. Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better. Thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve committee is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking. jack Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the
Re: [WISPA] grant funds ideas
insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Ross Cornett vp...@hofnet-communications.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] grant funds ideas I have yet to receive any communication or dollars from my government, other than to spend more money on their so called public safety initiatives, like calea... ...enough, that should get the sounding board moving...just incase anyone needs to know who posted such a Capitalistic Republican view. LOL, they don't like me around here for being one of those Capitalist Pigs, either. I'm so radical I oppose handouts, even for and to me (God knows I am not rich ). I won't take it if offered. You gotta start somewhere. I'm starting with me. It's not good enough for me to say if someone's going to get them, it might as well be me. Sorry. This country's in bad enough shape it's no longer a matter of politics or partisanship. It's now a matter of conscience. That should come first, before the bank balance, before the checkbook bottom line, before we're a party member, or not a party member, before we're businessmen or consumers, or whatever... Ross Cornett HofNet Communications, Inc. Effingham Illinois. 217 342 6201 ex 100 _ Galatians 6:7-8: Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. _ - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: legislat...@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:05 AM Subject: [WISPA] grant funds ideas Hi All, I've asked before but saw no discussion so here it is again If WISPA gets a chance to give input to the grant process, what should we tell the government? I can't believe that NO ONE here has any input on this at all. Did my last post fail to make it through? Or should we not give any input into the process if given the chance? We'll just let the telco's get all of it then? marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is preferred as this is a low budget hop. Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this capacity? Thanks Ryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to find for this kind of bandwidth. Travis Microserv Ryan Ghering wrote: I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is preferred as this is a low budget hop. Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this capacity? Thanks Ryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Broadcasters sue FCC over white space broadband decision.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/broadcasters-sue-fcc-over-wh ite-space-broadband-decision.ars Scottie --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
I can only quote the MotoMesh Duo today... MotoMesh Solo though is probably more along the lines of what you want... either way your not going to like the price if your trying to do it on the cheap. The sell to a city or county though should work though with more expensive gear because they can get grants, etc. for public safety. 4.9GHz to the car though is going to be hard to do without a Mesh system... and Mesh is costly. I'd hate to be the one to sell a homebrew 4.9GHz system to a government agency and have it not perform as advertised. You also need to be careful... 4.9GHz is part 90 not part-15 so FCC compliance should be high on your list. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Hmmm, can you price a system like this out? I'll need per tower and per node prices. Out here we'll probably be better off with a less expensive homebrew system due to long term costs though marlon - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture (developed for the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car to be traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work. Plus to modems you install in the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can connect to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can mesh through another car to work. I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a homebrew solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete turnkey package available (not that any of it is cheap!) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers. This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower - the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers. Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly cheaper... PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it... but that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to find for this kind of bandwidth. Travis Microserv Ryan Ghering wrote: I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is preferred as this is a low budget hop. Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this capacity? Thanks Ryan -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
Good point Daniel. Anyone doing 4.9 GHz "homebrew" would likely lose their business when the FCC came knocking along with the Police Department that was sold the illegal system by the WISP. OUCH!! 3-dB Networks wrote: I can only quote the MotoMesh Duo today... MotoMesh Solo though is probably more along the lines of what you want... either way your not going to like the price if your trying to do it on the cheap. The sell to a city or county though should work though with more expensive gear because they can get grants, etc. for public safety. 4.9GHz to the car though is going to be hard to do without a Mesh system... and Mesh is costly. I'd hate to be the one to sell a homebrew 4.9GHz system to a government agency and have it not perform as advertised. You also need to be careful... 4.9GHz is part 90 not part-15 so FCC compliance should be high on your list. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Hmmm, can you price a system like this out? I'll need per tower and per node prices. Out here we'll probably be better off with a less expensive homebrew system due to long term costs though marlon - Original Message - From: "3-dB Networks" wi...@3-db.net To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture (developed for the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car to be traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work. Plus to modems you install in the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can connect to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can mesh through another car to work. I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a homebrew solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete turnkey package available (not that any of it is cheap!) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Jerry Richardson" jrichard...@aircloud.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers. This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower - the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers. Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here.
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
I'd just hate to be the guy deploying a 4.9GHz homebrew system that the police/fire come to depend on and have it fail on me and someone die because of it. Systems like these should cost a lot of money to be built very well. The FCC would really be the last person I would be concerned about. it's the wrath of the city when a mission critical system like this fails. I've heard a lot of stories from Motorola two-way guys how they could go into meetings and cities would buy their two-way gear and pay the extra price because no one wants to take chances with people's lives. Help the city find the grant money to purchase a system like Moto's. and your going to be the hero big time. Take it one step farther and do a Motomesh Quatro deployment. have grant money pay for the gear. and use the 2.4GHz Wi-Fi coverage you now have to sell service. Since the gear is paid for your ROI is in a much better situation than the average muni-wifi project. Or take it one step further and get the water department to use it for meter reading, etc. At the end of the day money isn't an issue really for something like this. its just about getting the right people together and FINDING the money for it. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 3:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Good point Daniel. Anyone doing 4.9 GHz homebrew would likely lose their business when the FCC came knocking along with the Police Department that was sold the illegal system by the WISP. OUCH!! 3-dB Networks wrote: I can only quote the MotoMesh Duo today... MotoMesh Solo though is probably more along the lines of what you want... either way your not going to like the price if your trying to do it on the cheap. The sell to a city or county though should work though with more expensive gear because they can get grants, etc. for public safety. 4.9GHz to the car though is going to be hard to do without a Mesh system... and Mesh is costly. I'd hate to be the one to sell a homebrew 4.9GHz system to a government agency and have it not perform as advertised. You also need to be careful... 4.9GHz is part 90 not part-15 so FCC compliance should be high on your list. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Hmmm, can you price a system like this out? I'll need per tower and per node prices. Out here we'll probably be better off with a less expensive homebrew system due to long term costs though marlon - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture (developed for the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car to be traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work. Plus to modems you install in the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can connect to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can mesh through another car to work. I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a homebrew solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete turnkey package available (not that any of it is cheap!) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson mailto:jrichard...@aircloud.com jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not
Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless
Interference? Greg On Mar 4, 2009, at 1:05 PM, Mark Nash wrote: One AP with one radio. We've gone through the moisture issue. Originally, Ubiquiti thought that the radios were taking in too much static and we needed to DC-ground each piece of equipment. We did that, bought new radios, but still couldn't get back to our original signal levels. How about antennas? Anyone have suggestions on base station antennas? I believe the pac antenna is a 120* VPol sector antenna. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless One AP with one radio or multiple radios in the same AP? First thought is a wet connector to tha antenna __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless We've seen a drop in signal on all of our connections off of one AP. In the beginning, connections were at -70(ish) for all CPEs. Now they're at -85(ish) and not really usable. We've replaced several boards radio cards ($250 a pop for one of these radios), both at the AP and at the client (both AP clients are Valemount WAR4's). Using Pac Wireless 3.5 grids on clients Pac Wireless 3.5 VPol sector at the AP. Upon advice from Ubiquiti, we've grounded every point that could be grounded (including antenna and card). We've sent 5 of the radios back to Ubiquiti for testing to see if there's a problem with them. I'm wondering if any of you have seen the same things??? Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Broadcasters sue FCC over white space broadband decision.
This legal action comes as the FCC was just starting to implement its white space order. The agency finally published the decision in the Federal Register in mid-February, announcing that its rules would become effective on March 19. And the Commission has begun talking to parties about setting up the databases needed to protect TV channels and unlicensed microphones from interference. Anyone have a link to the Federal Register item pertaining to us? If the decision was supposedly illegal, wouldn't Congress passing a law allowing\forcing this solve that issue? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 3:58 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org; 'Motorola Canopy User Group' motor...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Broadcasters sue FCC over white space broadband decision. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/broadcasters-sue-fcc-over-wh ite-space-broadband-decision.ars Scottie --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
These will do what you want http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/routers/ps272/ps6990/product_data_sheet0900aecd804c207b.html John Marlon K. Schafer wrote: OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
Are any of the towers setup such that you could cross the circle? In other words, if you had towers 1 to 20 in a ring, have a secondary link between towers 4 and 16 for instance. This would require routing, and preferably dynamic routing, but then you would have some redundancy. John Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers. How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage at 18 gig? Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop. Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though maybe not at full speed. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles. Some links may be less, but I'm not counting on that. I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic. I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring. I can load share across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs. I'll want things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of connectivity in any direction. What would you guys use/suggest? I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but unlicensed may be OK due to the failover capabilities. We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms. What gear would you use? How would you set this up? I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome. Pall park numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low, I'd rather over estimate the costs. thanks, marlon - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
I made some notes when I first started using RM (attached). RM gives great results once you get the hang of it but for quick dirty just use Delorme Topo. -RickG On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: OK, I have that in there. Nothing happened. Just send WHAT? An email? What's it supposed to say? I'm probably the only guy that that's NEVER used and ATM too. I don't have a PIN number or anything. If I'm gonna need cash I just go to the bank and get some. How hard is that? Plus I get to talk to the cute gals there. People are s much nicer to deal with that machines. Well, usually. grin laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile For Terrain data, set up RM to automatically grab the correct terrain data as needed. - Open RM - Options - Internet - Internet ftp directory - other - Enter the following ftp appending your region at the end ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/ To determine your region: ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/Region_definition.jpg Check ZIP So if you are region 2 your FTP address will look like: ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/Region_02/ Let me know when you have this set up. As far as payment, you can do PayPal without an account - just send it to jrichard...@aircloud.com. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I understand that. Why do you think I'm even trying to learn it? Still, programmers shouldn't be so danged lazy! How hard can it be to put a good install program in place? Or a map (hey, what a thing for a mapping program to include!) that you can click on to download the data you are interested in marlon - Original Message - From: Mark McElvy mmce...@accubak.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile You may think it is a POS but try and buy something that can do what it can. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Sold! I tried to download the terrain data, but I got the NED instead of the srtm. I don't know which data set to get. WHAT a POS system this is! Also, I don't have paypal. If you'll take a cc or check I'm in. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I'll get you from zero to terrain analysis in about an hour. You'll need to get your SRTM data loaded first - do you know how to do that? We can use ZOHO Web Meeting. Price 100.00 paid via PayPal __ airCloud Communications Broadband for Business Public and Private WiFi Jerry Richardson VP Operations 925-260-4119 _ ConsuWISP RF Topographical Coverage Maps Network Optimization and Planning Network Design and Troubleshooting Installer and Technician Training Please consider the environment before printing this email -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I don't have time (or the desire) to wade through a bunch of documentation. I'll pay someone for their time. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Uhm...ya... Try this... http://www.pizon.org/radio-mobile-tutorial/index.html Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 1:43 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Hi All, I need to learn how to use this program. I can't even figure out how to get started with it (less than user friendly isn't it!) though. Anyone willing to spend some time on the phone and help me
Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
Why would you go unlicensed if you can go licensed for slightly more? -RickG On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:34 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly cheaper... PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it... but that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to find for this kind of bandwidth. Travis Microserv Ryan Ghering wrote: I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is preferred as this is a low budget hop. Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this capacity? Thanks Ryan -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
ok after talking with the client they have informed me that they only NEED 40 to 50 meg full duplex. and they are very price conscious as well. I was informed late today that I get the bid for this project if I can do it for under 5 grand. So with labor and a small bit of profit, I'm not sure I can make it happen do the unlicensed products like microtik or staros meet these specs. I see that microtik has a unit they say can do 60 to 80 meg. but whats the real bandwidth like and does anyone have experiance with them? Ryan On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:43 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Why would you go unlicensed if you can go licensed for slightly more? -RickG On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:34 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly cheaper... PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it... but that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to find for this kind of bandwidth. Travis Microserv Ryan Ghering wrote: I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is preferred as this is a low budget hop. Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this capacity? Thanks Ryan -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
I've been using Delorme Topo for years. you have to know your trees, but it works fine to see if a link is possable or not RickG wrote: I made some notes when I first started using RM (attached). RM gives great results once you get the hang of it but for quick dirty just use Delorme Topo. -RickG On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: OK, I have that in there. Nothing happened. Just send WHAT? An email? What's it supposed to say? I'm probably the only guy that that's NEVER used and ATM too. I don't have a PIN number or anything. If I'm gonna need cash I just go to the bank and get some. How hard is that? Plus I get to talk to the cute gals there. People are s much nicer to deal with that machines. Well, usually. grin laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Jerry Richardson" jrichard...@aircloud.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile For Terrain data, set up RM to automatically grab the correct terrain data as needed. - Open RM - Options - Internet - Internet ftp directory - other - Enter the following ftp appending your region at the end ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/ To determine your region: ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/Region_definition.jpg Check ZIP So if you are region 2 your FTP address will look like: ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/Region_02/ Let me know when you have this set up. As far as payment, you can do PayPal without an account - just send it to jrichard...@aircloud.com. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I understand that. Why do you think I'm even trying to learn it? Still, programmers shouldn't be so danged lazy! How hard can it be to put a good install program in place? Or a map (hey, what a thing for a mapping program to include!) that you can click on to download the data you are interested in marlon - Original Message - From: "Mark McElvy" mmce...@accubak.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile You may think it is a POS but try and buy something that can do what it can. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Sold! I tried to download the terrain data, but I got the NED instead of the srtm. I don't know which data set to get. WHAT a POS system this is! Also, I don't have paypal. If you'll take a cc or check I'm in. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Jerry Richardson" jrichard...@aircloud.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I'll get you from zero to terrain analysis in about an hour. You'll need to get your SRTM data loaded first - do you know how to do that? We can use ZOHO Web Meeting. Price 100.00 paid via PayPal __ airCloud Communications Broadband for Business Public and Private WiFi Jerry Richardson VP Operations 925-260-4119 _ ConsuWISP RF Topographical Coverage Maps Network Optimization and Planning Network Design and Troubleshooting Installer and Technician Training Please consider the environment before printing this email -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile I don't have time (or the desire) to wade through a bunch of documentation. I'll pay someone for their time. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: "Josh Luthman" j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile Uhm...ya... Try this... http://www.pizon.org/radio-mobile-tutorial/index.html Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer
Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
I've seen Terabridge 5845's listed for $3000.00. That radio is a true no bullshit 45Mbps FDX radio. We've had several in use over the years and they are pretty awesome...1ms latency, etc, etc. They used to be $10k - $15k radios during their prime. IMO, they are still superior to most any other UL PtP radio. We've been pulling them down and replacing them with licensed links primarily due to capacity needs. 45Mbps doesn't do us much good these days when our clients are looking for 100Mbps+...but it's a good problem to have! http://cgi.ebay.com/PROXIM-TERABRIDGE-5845-LINK-KIT-w-CABLES-POWER-NEW_W0QQi temZ140304191357 Whenever I get some time I'll start posting our used Terabridges for sale at attractive prices. They will make great spares to the new units bizsyscon is selling. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Ghering Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:39 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed ok after talking with the client they have informed me that they only NEED 40 to 50 meg full duplex. and they are very price conscious as well. I was informed late today that I get the bid for this project if I can do it for under 5 grand. So with labor and a small bit of profit, I'm not sure I can make it happen do the unlicensed products like microtik or staros meet these specs. I see that microtik has a unit they say can do 60 to 80 meg. but whats the real bandwidth like and does anyone have experiance with them? Ryan On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:43 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Why would you go unlicensed if you can go licensed for slightly more? -RickG On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:34 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly cheaper... PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it... but that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to find for this kind of bandwidth. Travis Microserv Ryan Ghering wrote: I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is preferred as this is a low budget hop. Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this capacity? Thanks Ryan -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
The Mikrotik solution can be done... but you will need a lot of clean spectrum to make it happen. At only a mile, you could use an RB433AH with a couple SR5 cards on each side. There is even an integrated antenna that will hold all of this, and provide vertical and horizontal antennas in the same enclosure (http://www.titanwirelessonline.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AT-19DP-58-R2) 2 x RB433AH 4 x SR5 cards 2 x dual pol antenna enclosures with pigtails I would estimate total cost of parts to be less than $800. A couple hours to build, test and configure and you should be good to go. The only real challenge will be finding two open 40mhz wide channels. However, I would think that could be done in the 5.3ghz and 5.4ghz bands without a problem. Travis Microserv Ryan Ghering wrote: ok after talking with the client they have informed me that they only NEED 40 to 50 meg full duplex. and they are very price conscious as well. I was informed late today that I get the bid for this project if I can do it for under 5 grand. So with labor and a small bit of profit, I'm not sure I can make it happen do the unlicensed products like microtik or staros meet these specs. I see that microtik has a unit they say can do 60 to 80 meg. but whats the real bandwidth like and does anyone have experiance with them? Ryan On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:43 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Why would you go unlicensed if you can go licensed for slightly more? -RickG On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:34 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly cheaper... PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it... but that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to find for this kind of bandwidth. Travis Microserv Ryan Ghering wrote: I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is preferred as this is a low budget hop. Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this capacity? Thanks Ryan -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] The good college try
The modern day WISP that is smaller has to run more efficiently, I lost my system admin in the last budget cut. He helps from his new job but the network is pretty much up to me, a former ISP owner and not the most technically inclined as I should be. Obviously I have more knowledge than the average bear but reading code, design specs or engineering can sometimes be a bit much, that's why I have the savings from a full time admin to hire people who can guide me. My feeling is Marlon is pretty much in the same boat. While some in WISPA have thousands of customers in more urban/suburban environments we are all rural. Speaking only for myself I'm frequently in over my head, that's why I belong to this group, I'm a much better businessman than tech but I learn easily when I have interest in a topic. We try not to look dumb when we ask for help and try to compensate for the help with volunteering for projects, paying for consulting or just a big thanks. Some on here may think non-geeks don't belong but we're all in this for the same reason, I personally left the Fire Service to learn and build this business, Maybe I can't engineer a backhaul but I can sure do CPR if you need it, done it over 200 times. Just show a little patience and if you don't want to educate the ignorant that's your right but we sure appreciate it when you can help and I for one promise to not ask for too much at once or act like our lovely customers who can't find the start button. Thanks for what you do help, I appreciate it! Forbes From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 6:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Honestly, based on the questions you are asking, I think you may be in over your head on this project. You may want to seek some help from someone that has actually done this type of work and knows what they are doing. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles. Some links may be less, but I'm not counting on that. I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic. I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring. I can load share across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs. I'll want things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of connectivity in any direction. What would you guys use/suggest? I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but unlicensed may be OK due to the failover capabilities. We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms. What gear would you use? How would you set this up? I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome. Pall park numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low, I'd rather over estimate the costs. thanks, marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
StarOS will meet the specs of what you need to do. Two X4000 radios with dual pol panels will run full-duplex around the 50-55meg level. http://www.star-os.com/store/ Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Travis Johnson writes: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless
Mark, Yes we've seen this, we use NS2's on a variety of boards. We replaced the board, changed the connections and relocated the antenna. Weather doesn't seem to affect it and the calls certainly increase as the noise floor is approached in the -87's to -90's. We put in an Engeinus CB3 and problem went away. Three boards, two chips and no go except another brand. Never really found an answer except changing brands of antenna's helped. I'm sure it's interference related but its hard to put my finger on it. Forbes -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless We've seen a drop in signal on all of our connections off of one AP. In the beginning, connections were at -70(ish) for all CPEs. Now they're at -85(ish) and not really usable. We've replaced several boards radio cards ($250 a pop for one of these radios), both at the AP and at the client (both AP clients are Valemount WAR4's). Using Pac Wireless 3.5 grids on clients Pac Wireless 3.5 VPol sector at the AP. Upon advice from Ubiquiti, we've grounded every point that could be grounded (including antenna and card). We've sent 5 of the radios back to Ubiquiti for testing to see if there's a problem with them. I'm wondering if any of you have seen the same things??? Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.7/1982 - Release Date: 03/03/09 16:09:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
Yes, but the system doesn't have to fail before the WISP who supplies the homebrew 4.9 system gets blown out of the water. All one person would have to do is point out to the City that the equipment that they have been sold is uncertified and illegal to use per FCC rules. What Police Department IT guy (or Police Chief) is going to accept that and put his own career on the line just because some WISP didn't tell him the truth about the equipment that they sold the Police Department? 3-dB Networks wrote: I'd just hate to be the guy deploying a 4.9GHz homebrew system that the police/fire come to depend on and have it fail on me and someone die because of it. Systems like these should cost a lot of money to be built very well. The FCC would really be the last person I would be concerned about. it's the wrath of the city when a mission critical system like this fails. I've heard a lot of stories from Motorola two-way guys how they could go into meetings and cities would buy their two-way gear and pay the extra price because no one wants to take chances with people's lives. Help the city find the grant money to purchase a system like Moto's. and your going to be the hero big time. Take it one step farther and do a Motomesh Quatro deployment. have grant money pay for the gear. and use the 2.4GHz Wi-Fi coverage you now have to sell service. Since the gear is paid for your ROI is in a much better situation than the average muni-wifi project. Or take it one step further and get the water department to use it for meter reading, etc. At the end of the day money isn't an issue really for something like this. its just about getting the right people together and FINDING the money for it. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 3:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Good point Daniel. Anyone doing 4.9 GHz homebrew would likely lose their business when the FCC came knocking along with the Police Department that was sold the illegal system by the WISP. OUCH!! 3-dB Networks wrote: I can only quote the MotoMesh Duo today... MotoMesh Solo though is probably more along the lines of what you want... either way your not going to like the price if your trying to do it on the cheap. The sell to a city or county though should work though with more expensive gear because they can get grants, etc. for public safety. 4.9GHz to the car though is going to be hard to do without a Mesh system... and Mesh is costly. I'd hate to be the one to sell a homebrew 4.9GHz system to a government agency and have it not perform as advertised. You also need to be careful... 4.9GHz is part 90 not part-15 so FCC compliance should be high on your list. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Hmmm, can you price a system like this out? I'll need per tower and per node prices. Out here we'll probably be better off with a less expensive homebrew system due to long term costs though marlon - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture (developed for the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car to be traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work. Plus to modems you install in the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can connect to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can mesh through another car to work. I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a homebrew solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete turnkey package available (not that any of it is cheap!) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of
Re: [WISPA] The good college try
Forbes, I'm not far away from you, and if you ever need network type help, feel free to holler. I love the technical stuff. Don't much care for the paperwork or installs in the rain, or climbing ladders, or climbing into the bucket on the truck... insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] The good college try The modern day WISP that is smaller has to run more efficiently, I lost my system admin in the last budget cut. He helps from his new job but the network is pretty much up to me, a former ISP owner and not the most technically inclined as I should be. Obviously I have more knowledge than the average bear but reading code, design specs or engineering can sometimes be a bit much, that's why I have the savings from a full time admin to hire people who can guide me. My feeling is Marlon is pretty much in the same boat. While some in WISPA have thousands of customers in more urban/suburban environments we are all rural. Speaking only for myself I'm frequently in over my head, that's why I belong to this group, I'm a much better businessman than tech but I learn easily when I have interest in a topic. We try not to look dumb when we ask for help and try to compensate for the help with volunteering for projects, paying for consulting or just a big thanks. Some on here may think non-geeks don't belong but we're all in this for the same reason, I personally left the Fire Service to learn and build this business, Maybe I can't engineer a backhaul but I can sure do CPR if you need it, done it over 200 times. Just show a little patience and if you don't want to educate the ignorant that's your right but we sure appreciate it when you can help and I for one promise to not ask for too much at once or act like our lovely customers who can't find the start button. Thanks for what you do help, I appreciate it! Forbes From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 6:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Marlon, Honestly, based on the questions you are asking, I think you may be in over your head on this project. You may want to seek some help from someone that has actually done this type of work and knows what they are doing. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Thanks. Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is build in a circle? marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure $15,000 per link for everything. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles. Some links may be less, but I'm not counting on that. I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic. I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring. I can load share across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs. I'll want things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of connectivity in any direction. What would you guys use/suggest? I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but unlicensed may be OK due to the failover capabilities. We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms. What gear would you use? How would you set this up? I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome. Pall park numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low, I'd rather over estimate the costs. thanks, marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You!
Re: [WISPA] Grain leg safety cage (was Re: Tower accident)
Mark, I am a little late on this reply, got backed up on list emailsanyways. http://www.farwestcorrosion.com/ccpcoatings/north01.htm They are called Saf-T-Climb. That is the type that are on the tanks we have equipment on. HTH, Scottie -Original Message- From: Mark McElvy [mailto:mmce...@accubak.com] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:30 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Grain leg safety cage (was Re: Tower accident) I have the pipe type on one of my water towers, where do you get and what do you call the device to connect to it? Mark -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Grain leg safety cage (was Re: Tower accident) They use that type safety(pipe with notches) on most water tanks in my area. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Chuck McCown - 3 ch...@beehive.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:01:50 -0700 No but you could fall down and get so tangled up the rescue would be difficult. I have climbed caged ladders that had a pipe up the center of the ladder with small ratchet notches in it. The arrester device was a pipe looking thing that would slide up the safety pipe/rail. It had a spring loaded dog that would engage the notches if you fell. I thought it was a pretty good system. - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Grain leg safety cage (was Re: Tower accident) That's what the safety cage is for. if you fall basically you should only be leaning back on the cage. You technically shouldn't be able to fall with a safety cage. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Grain leg safety cage (was Re: Tower accident) What happens when you fall? Brian John Valenti wrote: Brian, Why would you want to add a safety cable to the cage? I'm on several legs with the cages and they seem great. I usually just lean back to take a break while climbing. It seems like an unnecessary bother, and something else to get in the way while climbing the ladder. Just curious what your thinking is, maybe I'm missing something. -John On Jan 6, 2009, at 9:20 PM, Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I have seriously thought about putting a cable going up the center of the ladders on all the elevator legs we're on. There is already one on the leg that has no cage. Then we could clip on a go, with either a belt or a light harness (unlike my big sit down elk river harness that is a little heavy). Anyone run these cable before? What is needed? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 /
