Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
It all depends on the ISP. All they are doing is looking for the abuse email on the network. For our network this is us. However, Some of the bigger ISP's (TWTC...ect) actually have a up to date whois that you can query, So you Put in the info for lets say 65.33.33.33 and it says TWTC but once you query there whois it will tell you hostingcompanyx is who we issued this ip to. Linux's whois does this all by default. The point I'm making is, It is possible for the customer to be the one to receive the email, Its all about who is listed as a abuse contact on the whois page. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:56 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] USF changes?
This is the critical phrase The measure will expand who pays into the fund Anyone know the answer? This is good if it makes high volume DSL and Cable Co to continue to pay USF fees. But not so good if it makes suburban WISPs have to start paying into the fund. Its a competitive advantage that WISPs dont have to pay the 5% USF tax currently, and needed advantage in the very competitive served markets, since WISPs are usually under dogs in their market. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] USF changes? Warning: The bill also drew early praise from ATT On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: http://www.internetnews.com/infra/article.php/3847366/Lawmakers+Float+Bill+to+Boost+Rural+Broadband.htm I'm not sure I need any more gov. interference! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
That works for current infringements but what about those last night? last week? last month? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] customers dogs chewing on CAT5
OR one can just do a professional install job, and not have loose cables, and properly stable/fasten all cables flush to surfaces every three feet, and run behind walls, and under trims, etc. Dogs have never been a threat to my installs. Sure a Dog might chew a 6ft Patch Cable, but thats an easy fix, and easilly verified by end user. Now on the other hand a Weed Eater? We've had a few cut by lawn care, when the weeds grew up to the trim edge, cause they dont even know the cable is there, and accidentally get it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] customers dogs chewing on CAT5 Feed and Grain stores sell bitters, but I find that any determined dog will ignore the bitters and chew away. In fact, just this morning I coincidentally happened to have some bitters (gf bought it a while back) and thought oh what the hell and sprayed it on something a dog was chewing on. The dog went right back to it, licked it, shook his head, licked his chops, and licked the wood again. Kept doing this, whining at times, until it was all clean and he could chew again ;-). However, I *have* found that Habanero Tabasco Hot Sauce works 100% of the time. That's like 10,000 times hotter than normal jalapeno hot sauce and they do not like and do not go back for a second lick. Chuck On Nov 9, 2009, at 10:18 AM, Greg wrote: Your local feed and grain or pet store should have aerosol dog repellent. Greg On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I've had several customers that have had their dog chew on the Cat5 going from the house to the TV tower and some of them multiple times. Anyone have ideas on how to keep the dog from chewing on the wire? I've got one customer on their 3rd Cat5 run and going out right now to replace a different customer that will be his 3rd one as well. I'm about ready to shoot the stinking dog.. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
good point. So what does the law require? Is this a case for why providing Internet services without a static public IP exposed the ISP to legal suit? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement That works for current infringements but what about those last night? last week? last month? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You!
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
OK so let's play out the scenario. Studio wants ISP send a letter to the customer ISP is NAT/DHCP - has no way to know Studio gets subpoena What now? At this point LEA is involved which demands cooperation. If the network is open WiFi, then there truly is no way to know. If the network is fixed installation, then the ISP could provide the information. So assuming it's a fixed installation, the ISP sets up a server with Wireshark or other packet capture and stores that data for1 day, 1 week, 1 month? At this point is the ISP breaking any privacy laws of customers that are NOT named in the subpoena? Not if the customer's TOA indicated that their Internet traffic MAY be stored and analyzed under legal request by LEA. Mind you this is all hypothetical. I'm just trying to understand the potential impact and exposire on the part of the ISP. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement So what does the law require? It doesn't. Is this a case for why providing Internet services without a static public IP exposed the ISP to legal suit? If the law changes and says each customer is required to have a public IP, then ISPs need to be provided as such. Keep in mind, too, that IPs are dynamic with most ISPs. Don't forget that the I have an open WiFi don't blame me case still works. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: good point. So what does the law require? Is this a case for why providing Internet services without a static public IP exposed the ISP to legal suit? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement That works for current infringements but what about those last night? last week? last month? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA]
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
But they also keep records of who had which IP when. Greg On Nov 10, 2009, at 1:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Keep in mind, too, that IPs are dynamic with most ISPs. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
AFAIK your assertion that NAT/DHCP - has no way to know is not entirely correct. Just how most Cable companies require you to register the MAC address of your modem to tie to your account (DHCP has logs you know), University students sign up for dorm internet using their mac address (which they sometimes rewrite onto their modem), but someone's name is still on the 'account.' This is how I think those 'high exposure' for DMCA (especially university) handle DMCA to Violator lookups. One does not need to open up wireshark and start logging traffic for awhile. Sufficient logs with enough detail (IP MAC + cross reference against account holder) accurate timestamps should be enough to identify who is who at what time without violating your customer's privacy of their data. -I Jerry Richardson wrote: OK so let's play out the scenario. Studio wants ISP send a letter to the customer ISP is NAT/DHCP - has no way to know Studio gets subpoena What now? At this point LEA is involved which demands cooperation. If the network is open WiFi, then there truly is no way to know. If the network is fixed installation, then the ISP could provide the information. So assuming it's a fixed installation, the ISP sets up a server with Wireshark or other packet capture and stores that data for1 day, 1 week, 1 month? At this point is the ISP breaking any privacy laws of customers that are NOT named in the subpoena? Not if the customer's TOA indicated that their Internet traffic MAY be stored and analyzed under legal request by LEA. Mind you this is all hypothetical. I'm just trying to understand the potential impact and exposire on the part of the ISP. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement So what does the law require? It doesn't. Is this a case for why providing Internet services without a static public IP exposed the ISP to legal suit? If the law changes and says each customer is required to have a public IP, then ISPs need to be provided as such. Keep in mind, too, that IPs are dynamic with most ISPs. Don't forget that the I have an open WiFi don't blame me case still works. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: good point. So what does the law require? Is this a case for why providing Internet services without a static public IP exposed the ISP to legal suit? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement That works for current infringements but what about those last night? last week? last month? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
So what does the law require? It doesn't. Is this a case for why providing Internet services without a static public IP exposed the ISP to legal suit? If the law changes and says each customer is required to have a public IP, then ISPs need to be provided as such. Keep in mind, too, that IPs are dynamic with most ISPs. Don't forget that the I have an open WiFi don't blame me case still works. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: good point. So what does the law require? Is this a case for why providing Internet services without a static public IP exposed the ISP to legal suit? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement That works for current infringements but what about those last night? last week? last month? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
This is correct, But the cable companys hand out public addresses with DHCP. So you can say, Yeah This address was assigned to mac on this date. And they know the offending IP because it was in the email, But When you nat all your customers, the ip in the email is the IP assigned to the wan interface of your router, or whatever you are masquerading out. So you have no idea what the internal IP was the offender. And no log will tell you which one was. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: Israel Lopez-LISTS ilopezli...@sandboxitsolutions.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:14 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement AFAIK your assertion that NAT/DHCP - has no way to know is not entirely correct. Just how most Cable companies require you to register the MAC address of your modem to tie to your account (DHCP has logs you know), University students sign up for dorm internet using their mac address (which they sometimes rewrite onto their modem), but someone's name is still on the 'account.' This is how I think those 'high exposure' for DMCA (especially university) handle DMCA to Violator lookups. One does not need to open up wireshark and start logging traffic for awhile. Sufficient logs with enough detail (IP MAC + cross reference against account holder) accurate timestamps should be enough to identify who is who at what time without violating your customer's privacy of their data. -I Jerry Richardson wrote: OK so let's play out the scenario. Studio wants ISP send a letter to the customer ISP is NAT/DHCP - has no way to know Studio gets subpoena What now? At this point LEA is involved which demands cooperation. If the network is open WiFi, then there truly is no way to know. If the network is fixed installation, then the ISP could provide the information. So assuming it's a fixed installation, the ISP sets up a server with Wireshark or other packet capture and stores that data for1 day, 1 week, 1 month? At this point is the ISP breaking any privacy laws of customers that are NOT named in the subpoena? Not if the customer's TOA indicated that their Internet traffic MAY be stored and analyzed under legal request by LEA. Mind you this is all hypothetical. I'm just trying to understand the potential impact and exposire on the part of the ISP. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement So what does the law require? It doesn't. Is this a case for why providing Internet services without a static public IP exposed the ISP to legal suit? If the law changes and says each customer is required to have a public IP, then ISPs need to be provided as such. Keep in mind, too, that IPs are dynamic with most ISPs. Don't forget that the I have an open WiFi don't blame me case still works. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: good point. So what does the law require? Is this a case for why providing Internet services without a static public IP exposed the ISP to legal suit? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement That works for current infringements but what about those last night? last week? last month? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself
Re: [WISPA] CPE - who buys it?
Rick, No your assumption is not true. Property Tax is applied on property. When you buy radio CPE it shows up on your financials as property, and if you TAX DEDUCT the cost of the CPE, which I sure hope you do for your benefit, you have claimed those purchases as property. A Auditor isn;t going to go look for a single small purchase. But I assure you CPEs, a line item which adds up to be a huge inaggregate cost, they will immediately see that property and recognize whether that property was declared, and property tax properly paid on it or not. As a matter of fact some counties will check you federal returns, to find your claimed deductions and depreciations, and automatically assess your property tax based on your Federal Tax Returns. SO IF your county charges Property Tax then your CPEs are TAXABLE PROPERTY UNLESS your county specifically has passsed a law to excemption radio equipment. Loudon County Virgina is one specific County that made Wireless CPE exempt from property tax to foster local investment in Broadband. I wish more counties were as insightful, because it was a very effective program. Property Tax is NOT just for large real estate. Its paid on EVERY TANGIBLE ASSET you own. That include an office chair, a computer, a telephone, a router, a CPE, what ever it is that you own. Mike, Just because nobody has been commming around asking for Property Tax on CPE does not make it not owed. Property Tax is self claimed, so the government doesn't know you have that property until they decide to audit you, or you tell them. But why do you pay any tax of any kind at all? After all, if you aren't audited you wont have to pay it? Because you know when you are audited, you'll be in big trouble if you didn't. The same applied to Property Tax. The burden is on the Property Owner to know the law and properly report Tax, or it is illegal TAX Evading, if the owner does not report it. Yes, I've fully qualified the above with attorneys and accountants. I learned this the hard way. I originally over paid my property taxes, because I didn't know the laws. When I learned I over paid, I stopped reporting and paying Property tax. I got audited by the county, and they decided to estimate my Property Tax based on data reported on my income tax returns, which was about 10 times more than I actually owed. The way it work is, you pay everything the government claims, and then if you protest the amounts and win, they'll send you a refund. I made the mistake of fighting the process, and when I didn't pay the wrong amounts, they simply immediately cancelled my corporate status, reported it to credit agencies, and made it impossible for me to get a LOAN for over 1.5 years. I couldn't even renew my ARIN IP, until I got it cleared up. The reason you report Property Tax on CPE is so you can report the correct amounts. The government does not have access to the fact to assess a correct amount and will always grossly over estimate. You should also include a letter explaining anything that might look odd. This is the thing Property Tax is paid to the State that the property is located and installed in. So if you are a Pennsylvania business, and buy equipment from California, and install the CPE into Maryland, you pay Property Tax on that CPE to Maryland. The problem here is that most WISPs dont track where they will install a CPE at the time they buy bulk CPE, so there is usually not a good record of where to pay tax to. SO... IF you buy 100 CPEs and Pay Tax on 100 CPEs to your State, and then isntall 30 of those CPEs in another State, you owe that second State Property Tax for 30 CPEs. This means that you are at risk of paying Tax TWICE, if you do not properly track where property resides and break tax payments down appropriately to match. This is one of the reasons I am against tracking an ISP's end user locations. The States/Counties will then have a clear record to track how many CPEs an ISP has in their County. To find out if you owe property tax, you need to look at county code. Dont look for something to say that you have to pay tax on CPE, because it wont be there. By default you are obligated to pay tax on EVERYTHING, unless an excemption was given. So you are looking for an Excemption in the County Tax Code specifically for broadband investment. If you cant find one, Contact your County and point them to the fine example that Loudon County Virginia has made to help make their County one of the most advanced Broadband Counties in the Country, and ask them to follow in their foot steps. It was funny, when I contacted my County about Property Tax and that I'd likely be applying for a BTOP grant bringing in a large amount of new property, the first thing they saw was Dollar signs, and it was inferred they had no intentions of waiving the Property Tax. I found it extremely hippocritical, that they'd not waive property tax to help private
Re: [WISPA] CPE - who buys it?
Quick Clarification As far as I know Personal Property Tax is a County Tax, and taxation is under the jurisdiction of the County Code, so its possible some states or Counties might not have a Personal Property Tax on anything. However, in our case the State collect Property Tax on behalf of the Counties. Many Counties get the majority of their income from Property Tax. With the Housing market crash, and falling property values, Counties have lost a huge percentage of their income, and usually in somewhat of a budget crisis because of it. For this reason it very possible that they might have their auditors look harder to areas other than Real Estate, to look for unreported taxable property. Just something to be concious about. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] CPE - who buys it? Rick, No your assumption is not true. Property Tax is applied on property. When you buy radio CPE it shows up on your financials as property, and if you TAX DEDUCT the cost of the CPE, which I sure hope you do for your benefit, you have claimed those purchases as property. A Auditor isn;t going to go look for a single small purchase. But I assure you CPEs, a line item which adds up to be a huge inaggregate cost, they will immediately see that property and recognize whether that property was declared, and property tax properly paid on it or not. As a matter of fact some counties will check you federal returns, to find your claimed deductions and depreciations, and automatically assess your property tax based on your Federal Tax Returns. SO IF your county charges Property Tax then your CPEs are TAXABLE PROPERTY UNLESS your county specifically has passsed a law to excemption radio equipment. Loudon County Virgina is one specific County that made Wireless CPE exempt from property tax to foster local investment in Broadband. I wish more counties were as insightful, because it was a very effective program. Property Tax is NOT just for large real estate. Its paid on EVERY TANGIBLE ASSET you own. That include an office chair, a computer, a telephone, a router, a CPE, what ever it is that you own. Mike, Just because nobody has been commming around asking for Property Tax on CPE does not make it not owed. Property Tax is self claimed, so the government doesn't know you have that property until they decide to audit you, or you tell them. But why do you pay any tax of any kind at all? After all, if you aren't audited you wont have to pay it? Because you know when you are audited, you'll be in big trouble if you didn't. The same applied to Property Tax. The burden is on the Property Owner to know the law and properly report Tax, or it is illegal TAX Evading, if the owner does not report it. Yes, I've fully qualified the above with attorneys and accountants. I learned this the hard way. I originally over paid my property taxes, because I didn't know the laws. When I learned I over paid, I stopped reporting and paying Property tax. I got audited by the county, and they decided to estimate my Property Tax based on data reported on my income tax returns, which was about 10 times more than I actually owed. The way it work is, you pay everything the government claims, and then if you protest the amounts and win, they'll send you a refund. I made the mistake of fighting the process, and when I didn't pay the wrong amounts, they simply immediately cancelled my corporate status, reported it to credit agencies, and made it impossible for me to get a LOAN for over 1.5 years. I couldn't even renew my ARIN IP, until I got it cleared up. The reason you report Property Tax on CPE is so you can report the correct amounts. The government does not have access to the fact to assess a correct amount and will always grossly over estimate. You should also include a letter explaining anything that might look odd. This is the thing Property Tax is paid to the State that the property is located and installed in. So if you are a Pennsylvania business, and buy equipment from California, and install the CPE into Maryland, you pay Property Tax on that CPE to Maryland. The problem here is that most WISPs dont track where they will install a CPE at the time they buy bulk CPE, so there is usually not a good record of where to pay tax to. SO... IF you buy 100 CPEs and Pay Tax on 100 CPEs to your State, and then isntall 30 of those CPEs in another State, you owe that second State Property Tax for 30 CPEs. This means that you are at risk of paying Tax TWICE, if you do not properly track where property resides and break tax payments down appropriately to match. This is one of the reasons I am against tracking an ISP's end user
Re: [WISPA] NTIA / RUS - Request for Information for 2nd Round Released
WISPA as well will be filing comments, and have been patiently waiting this anticipated ROI. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu To: memb...@wispa.org ; WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 12:39 PM Subject: [WISPA] NTIA / RUS - Request for Information for 2nd Round Released We will be filing comments, so if you want to add your “2 cents” on the process, let me know and we’ll be more than happy to incorporate your thoughts Agencies Plan to Consolidate Final Two Funding Rounds, Seek Comment on Program Enhancements WASHINGTON – The USDA‟s Rural Utilities Service (RUS) and the Commerce Department‟s National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) today announced they are streamlining the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act‟s broadband grant and loan programs by awarding the remaining funding in just one more round, instead of two rounds, to increase efficiency and better accommodate applicants. The agencies also announced they are seeking public comment on how best to administer the second round of funding for the programs in order to improve the applicant experience and maximize the ability of the programs to meet Recovery Act objectives. “Stakeholders will have the opportunity to provide us with well-informed feedback on how the first round worked for applicants, the agencies will be able to make improvements to the process, and potential applicants will gain more time to form partnerships and create stronger project proposals. Ultimately, this approach can help us run the programs with increased efficiency and produce better results for the American public,” Strickling said. In a Request for Information (RFI) released today, the agencies are seeking feedback on procedural and policy aspects of BIP and BTOP. While inviting general input on the programs, the agencies identified specific areas for comment. In terms of procedural matters, for example, the RFI seeks input on ways to streamline the application process while still ensuring that the agencies obtain the information necessary to make awards in accordance with statutory requirements. The RFI also asks whether the agencies can better balance the public‟s interest in transparency and openness with stakeholders‟ legitimate interest in maintaining the confidentiality of proprietary data. Among policy matters raised, the RFI seeks comment on how to best target the remaining funds to achieve the goals of the Recovery Act. Commenters proposing a more targeted approach are asked to quantify the impact of their proposal based on metrics such as the number of end users or community anchor institutions connecting to service, the number of new jobs created, and the projected increase in broadband adoption rates. The RFI asks whether to focus second round funding on projects that create “comprehensive communities” by installing high capacity middle mile facilities between anchor institutions that bring essential health, medical, and educational services to citizens. The RFI also invites input on various other issues, including whether the definition of “remote area,” which is used to determine grant eligibility under BIP, is too restrictive, how the agencies can best ensure that investments are cost effective, and ways the programs might impact regional economic development and stability. RUS and NTIA will utilize the feedback received in response to the RFI to set the rules for the second funding round, which the agencies expect Charles Wu President c...@ippay.com cell: 773-870-0962 • office: 847-346-0990 x2500 16W235 83rd Street, Suite A, Burr Ridge, IL 60527 • tel: 847.346.0990 fax: 847.346.0991 -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/image001.jpg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
Are you asking if it is our job to follow the tax law? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com wrote: Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
This actually leads to another question: Based on Federal CALEA requirements, aren't we (the service provider) supposed to keep our detail records of subscibers and usage logs .We keep logs by using a centralied Syslog server, where we log access, based on time stamp records, we can go back and see who was using what IP address at what point in time... Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
no it's not. but a subpoena means drop everything and do it now. I'd rather be prepared to comply Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com wrote: Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- ---
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
CALEA does require that you be able to identify subscribers by IP address and, as necessary take captures. So, once this data is collected for CALEA compliance purposes (as is mandatory), then it can be used in other legal proceedings. However, I don't see how a service provider has to provide CALEA information unless requested by a law enforcement agency, which would require a criminal prosecution (to be accessed by the CALEA provisions which circumvent some of the normal due process for these requests) or a subpoena in an ongoing lawsuit. Still, all that said, I find it a complete breach of trust for a service provider to forward that information onto a third party outside of a subpoena or a CALEA request. This is true in cases of copyright enforcement, which is usually more of a civil dispute between two parties than a criminal matter. This breach of privacy could also be abused in other ways: it's not hard to imagine a spoofed copyright violation notice being sent by a child predator or an offended chatroom user who fishes for identification information for purposes of revenge or abuse. -Clint On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: This actually leads to another question: Based on Federal CALEA requirements, aren't we (the service provider) supposed to keep our detail records of subscibers and usage logs .We keep logs by using a centralied Syslog server, where we log access, based on time stamp records, we can go back and see who was using what IP address at what point in time... Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
Do we have to do the logging or just give them a port to connect their magic box into so they can record everything? LaRoy McCann Data Technology Jerry Richardson wrote: no it's not. but a subpoena means drop everything and do it now. I'd rather be prepared to comply Sent from my iPhone On Nov 10, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com wrote: Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] customers dogs chewing on CAT5
We've had dogs pull the cable right off the side of the building. marlon - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] customers dogs chewing on CAT5 OR one can just do a professional install job, and not have loose cables, and properly stable/fasten all cables flush to surfaces every three feet, and run behind walls, and under trims, etc. Dogs have never been a threat to my installs. Sure a Dog might chew a 6ft Patch Cable, but thats an easy fix, and easilly verified by end user. Now on the other hand a Weed Eater? We've had a few cut by lawn care, when the weeds grew up to the trim edge, cause they dont even know the cable is there, and accidentally get it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] customers dogs chewing on CAT5 Feed and Grain stores sell bitters, but I find that any determined dog will ignore the bitters and chew away. In fact, just this morning I coincidentally happened to have some bitters (gf bought it a while back) and thought oh what the hell and sprayed it on something a dog was chewing on. The dog went right back to it, licked it, shook his head, licked his chops, and licked the wood again. Kept doing this, whining at times, until it was all clean and he could chew again ;-). However, I *have* found that Habanero Tabasco Hot Sauce works 100% of the time. That's like 10,000 times hotter than normal jalapeno hot sauce and they do not like and do not go back for a second lick. Chuck On Nov 9, 2009, at 10:18 AM, Greg wrote: Your local feed and grain or pet store should have aerosol dog repellent. Greg On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I've had several customers that have had their dog chew on the Cat5 going from the house to the TV tower and some of them multiple times. Anyone have ideas on how to keep the dog from chewing on the wire? I've got one customer on their 3rd Cat5 run and going out right now to replace a different customer that will be his 3rd one as well. I'm about ready to shoot the stinking dog.. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
This information will help clarify (or confuse further) http://www.wispa.org/calea/WCS/ -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Clint Ricker Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement CALEA does require that you be able to identify subscribers by IP address and, as necessary take captures. So, once this data is collected for CALEA compliance purposes (as is mandatory), then it can be used in other legal proceedings. However, I don't see how a service provider has to provide CALEA information unless requested by a law enforcement agency, which would require a criminal prosecution (to be accessed by the CALEA provisions which circumvent some of the normal due process for these requests) or a subpoena in an ongoing lawsuit. Still, all that said, I find it a complete breach of trust for a service provider to forward that information onto a third party outside of a subpoena or a CALEA request. This is true in cases of copyright enforcement, which is usually more of a civil dispute between two parties than a criminal matter. This breach of privacy could also be abused in other ways: it's not hard to imagine a spoofed copyright violation notice being sent by a child predator or an offended chatroom user who fishes for identification information for purposes of revenge or abuse. -Clint On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: This actually leads to another question: Based on Federal CALEA requirements, aren't we (the service provider) supposed to keep our detail records of subscibers and usage logs .We keep logs by using a centralied Syslog server, where we log access, based on time stamp records, we can go back and see who was using what IP address at what point in time... Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
We're operate a small cable TV company in a minor section of our service area and carry about 55 channels which includes most of the major networks. We're interested in deploying IPTV. What middleware software would you recommend? You mentioned you used Linux in your headend environment. Can you elaborate on that setup, such as the software you were using to convert the channels to IP Multicast, set-top boxes being used, software providing channel guides, etc etc? Thanks. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 9, 2009, at 9:25 AM, Jayson Baker wrote: Building the headend isn't that difficult, you're right. Ours was actually pretty simple. We used multi-channel satellite receivers; each tuned 32 channels I think. It had an ASI output. We'd take the ASI stream, and run it into an ASI-input PCI card. Each card took 4 ASI streams, and was about $1000 each. Linux software on the server pulled each channel out of the ASI and converted it to MPEG 4. Cheap, easy, simple. They'd put out a multicast stream, which our network took and pushed out the fiber ring. We even had it going down some wireless links, so I could get it at my house 20 miles away. The money in the headend comes in when you by the middleware -- this you cannot just roll your own Middleware handles billing, authentication, licenses, guide, etc. Making deals with companies to rebroadcast their channels is going to be another major hurdle. Unless you are big (i.e. have $$$) don't think you'll be carrying anything in the Disney/ESPN/ABC family. And forget about HBO. You'll need a fancy (i.e. $$$) lawyer who has been down this road before to negotiate these deals. When we set ours up, we hired a lawyer away from Comcast. After everything was in place, he went on to other things. Echostar has an IPTV solution, you may want to look into that. AFAIK, you pay them for everything, and they handle it all. Their feed, their headend, their encoders, their middleware, their STB's. One nice thing about that is it's the same DISH Network interface a lot of satellite users are already used to. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
The point I was making is that Based on CALEA requirements, each ISP is supposed to keep records of useage and access, and should be available via easy access (not a few hrs of research). Disclosing the End user info to DMCA That is not what we do and not in favor off either, but using the logs to identify which customer is the ofender and having them stop is what we do actively do. Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement This information will help clarify (or confuse further) http://www.wispa.org/calea/WCS/ -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Clint Ricker Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement CALEA does require that you be able to identify subscribers by IP address and, as necessary take captures. So, once this data is collected for CALEA compliance purposes (as is mandatory), then it can be used in other legal proceedings. However, I don't see how a service provider has to provide CALEA information unless requested by a law enforcement agency, which would require a criminal prosecution (to be accessed by the CALEA provisions which circumvent some of the normal due process for these requests) or a subpoena in an ongoing lawsuit. Still, all that said, I find it a complete breach of trust for a service provider to forward that information onto a third party outside of a subpoena or a CALEA request. This is true in cases of copyright enforcement, which is usually more of a civil dispute between two parties than a criminal matter. This breach of privacy could also be abused in other ways: it's not hard to imagine a spoofed copyright violation notice being sent by a child predator or an offended chatroom user who fishes for identification information for purposes of revenge or abuse. -Clint On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: This actually leads to another question: Based on Federal CALEA requirements, aren't we (the service provider) supposed to keep our detail records of subscibers and usage logs .We keep logs by using a centralied Syslog server, where we log access, based on time stamp records, we can go back and see who was using what IP address at what point in time... Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer.
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
You do NOT have to be able to identify the user by IP. What you have to be able to do is forward (in real time) all traffic to LEA. Butch Evens helped write our standard: http://www.wispa.org/calea/WCS/index.html he'll be able to give you much more accurate info on the specifics than I can. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Clint Ricker cric...@kentnis.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement CALEA does require that you be able to identify subscribers by IP address and, as necessary take captures. So, once this data is collected for CALEA compliance purposes (as is mandatory), then it can be used in other legal proceedings. However, I don't see how a service provider has to provide CALEA information unless requested by a law enforcement agency, which would require a criminal prosecution (to be accessed by the CALEA provisions which circumvent some of the normal due process for these requests) or a subpoena in an ongoing lawsuit. Still, all that said, I find it a complete breach of trust for a service provider to forward that information onto a third party outside of a subpoena or a CALEA request. This is true in cases of copyright enforcement, which is usually more of a civil dispute between two parties than a criminal matter. This breach of privacy could also be abused in other ways: it's not hard to imagine a spoofed copyright violation notice being sent by a child predator or an offended chatroom user who fishes for identification information for purposes of revenge or abuse. -Clint On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: This actually leads to another question: Based on Federal CALEA requirements, aren't we (the service provider) supposed to keep our detail records of subscibers and usage logs .We keep logs by using a centralied Syslog server, where we log access, based on time stamp records, we can go back and see who was using what IP address at what point in time... Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
You have to follow network designs that allow for CALEA intercepts if need be. If you've not looked at the WISPA standard I'd suggest you do so now. It'll be a lot easier to comply if the network is designed for LEA interface ahead of time. http://www.wispa.org/calea/WCS/index.html marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement OK so let's play out the scenario. Studio wants ISP send a letter to the customer ISP is NAT/DHCP - has no way to know Studio gets subpoena What now? At this point LEA is involved which demands cooperation. If the network is open WiFi, then there truly is no way to know. If the network is fixed installation, then the ISP could provide the information. So assuming it's a fixed installation, the ISP sets up a server with Wireshark or other packet capture and stores that data for1 day, 1 week, 1 month? At this point is the ISP breaking any privacy laws of customers that are NOT named in the subpoena? Not if the customer's TOA indicated that their Internet traffic MAY be stored and analyzed under legal request by LEA. Mind you this is all hypothetical. I'm just trying to understand the potential impact and exposire on the part of the ISP. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement So what does the law require? It doesn't. Is this a case for why providing Internet services without a static public IP exposed the ISP to legal suit? If the law changes and says each customer is required to have a public IP, then ISPs need to be provided as such. Keep in mind, too, that IPs are dynamic with most ISPs. Don't forget that the I have an open WiFi don't blame me case still works. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: good point. So what does the law require? Is this a case for why providing Internet services without a static public IP exposed the ISP to legal suit? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement That works for current infringements but what about those last night? last week? last month? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
You have to be able to Identify the Customer, weather you do it via IP or any other info is a monior Technicality. A lot of the Subpoena issued via mail or fax are more 'in support' of whatever the case the appropriate law enforcemnet agency is working on. Next time you get a Subpoena Feel free to ignore it or tell them you cannot find the info. If what they are working on is important enough or if you piss off the right person, having a group of 4 or 5 agents showing up to your office, and telling you nicely You can either find the information for us now, or we can come back with a team of a dozen people and a court order, and find the information ourselves by taking everything apart is very real and a tremendous motivator. If I had not seen them do this, I would have chalked it off to being a 'movie line'. In Short, you can be a cowboy with an attituted with them, or you can cooperate, the choice is yours, but the consequences can be very real. Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You do NOT have to be able to identify the user by IP. What you have to be able to do is forward (in real time) all traffic to LEA. Butch Evens helped write our standard: http://www.wispa.org/calea/WCS/index.html he'll be able to give you much more accurate info on the specifics than I can. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Clint Ricker cric...@kentnis.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement CALEA does require that you be able to identify subscribers by IP address and, as necessary take captures. So, once this data is collected for CALEA compliance purposes (as is mandatory), then it can be used in other legal proceedings. However, I don't see how a service provider has to provide CALEA information unless requested by a law enforcement agency, which would require a criminal prosecution (to be accessed by the CALEA provisions which circumvent some of the normal due process for these requests) or a subpoena in an ongoing lawsuit. Still, all that said, I find it a complete breach of trust for a service provider to forward that information onto a third party outside of a subpoena or a CALEA request. This is true in cases of copyright enforcement, which is usually more of a civil dispute between two parties than a criminal matter. This breach of privacy could also be abused in other ways: it's not hard to imagine a spoofed copyright violation notice being sent by a child predator or an offended chatroom user who fishes for identification information for purposes of revenge or abuse. -Clint On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: This actually leads to another question: Based on Federal CALEA requirements, aren't we (the service provider) supposed to keep our detail records of subscibers and usage logs .We keep logs by using a centralied Syslog server, where we log access, based on time stamp records, we can go back and see who was using what IP address at what point in time... Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Nick Olsen Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Really to cover yourself you would need to know what customer it came from, When NAT'ing that's hard to do. So yeah, I would agree you the ISP could become the sole person responsible for that unless you can point fingers at a customer. Nick
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
It's dumb. You could have 100s of folks behind a NAT. You can identify the account connection to your system but not the ID of the computer. It isn't well thought out. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You have to be able to Identify the Customer, weather you do it via IP or any other info is a monior Technicality. A lot of the Subpoena issued via mail or fax are more 'in support' of whatever the case the appropriate law enforcemnet agency is working on. Next time you get a Subpoena Feel free to ignore it or tell them you cannot find the info. If what they are working on is important enough or if you piss off the right person, having a group of 4 or 5 agents showing up to your office, and telling you nicely You can either find the information for us now, or we can come back with a team of a dozen people and a court order, and find the information ourselves by taking everything apart is very real and a tremendous motivator. If I had not seen them do this, I would have chalked it off to being a 'movie line'. In Short, you can be a cowboy with an attituted with them, or you can cooperate, the choice is yours, but the consequences can be very real. Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You do NOT have to be able to identify the user by IP. What you have to be able to do is forward (in real time) all traffic to LEA. Butch Evens helped write our standard: http://www.wispa.org/calea/WCS/index.html he'll be able to give you much more accurate info on the specifics than I can. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Clint Ricker cric...@kentnis.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement CALEA does require that you be able to identify subscribers by IP address and, as necessary take captures. So, once this data is collected for CALEA compliance purposes (as is mandatory), then it can be used in other legal proceedings. However, I don't see how a service provider has to provide CALEA information unless requested by a law enforcement agency, which would require a criminal prosecution (to be accessed by the CALEA provisions which circumvent some of the normal due process for these requests) or a subpoena in an ongoing lawsuit. Still, all that said, I find it a complete breach of trust for a service provider to forward that information onto a third party outside of a subpoena or a CALEA request. This is true in cases of copyright enforcement, which is usually more of a civil dispute between two parties than a criminal matter. This breach of privacy could also be abused in other ways: it's not hard to imagine a spoofed copyright violation notice being sent by a child predator or an offended chatroom user who fishes for identification information for purposes of revenge or abuse. -Clint On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: This actually leads to another question: Based on Federal CALEA requirements, aren't we (the service provider) supposed to keep our detail records of subscibers and usage logs .We keep logs by using a centralied Syslog server, where we log access, based on time stamp records, we can go back and see who was using what IP address at what point in time... Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server IP. Match the connection to the MAC and there you go. Maybe there is an easier way. -Original Message- From:
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
That's the point I was trying to make. If you are going to run NAT/DHCP, then you need to track the MAC address of the CPE's. If it's an open WiFi network, then all bets are off. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Schmidt Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:14 PM To: fai...@snappydsl.net; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement It's dumb. You could have 100s of folks behind a NAT. You can identify the account connection to your system but not the ID of the computer. It isn't well thought out. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You have to be able to Identify the Customer, weather you do it via IP or any other info is a monior Technicality. A lot of the Subpoena issued via mail or fax are more 'in support' of whatever the case the appropriate law enforcemnet agency is working on. Next time you get a Subpoena Feel free to ignore it or tell them you cannot find the info. If what they are working on is important enough or if you piss off the right person, having a group of 4 or 5 agents showing up to your office, and telling you nicely You can either find the information for us now, or we can come back with a team of a dozen people and a court order, and find the information ourselves by taking everything apart is very real and a tremendous motivator. If I had not seen them do this, I would have chalked it off to being a 'movie line'. In Short, you can be a cowboy with an attituted with them, or you can cooperate, the choice is yours, but the consequences can be very real. Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You do NOT have to be able to identify the user by IP. What you have to be able to do is forward (in real time) all traffic to LEA. Butch Evens helped write our standard: http://www.wispa.org/calea/WCS/index.html he'll be able to give you much more accurate info on the specifics than I can. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Clint Ricker cric...@kentnis.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement CALEA does require that you be able to identify subscribers by IP address and, as necessary take captures. So, once this data is collected for CALEA compliance purposes (as is mandatory), then it can be used in other legal proceedings. However, I don't see how a service provider has to provide CALEA information unless requested by a law enforcement agency, which would require a criminal prosecution (to be accessed by the CALEA provisions which circumvent some of the normal due process for these requests) or a subpoena in an ongoing lawsuit. Still, all that said, I find it a complete breach of trust for a service provider to forward that information onto a third party outside of a subpoena or a CALEA request. This is true in cases of copyright enforcement, which is usually more of a civil dispute between two parties than a criminal matter. This breach of privacy could also be abused in other ways: it's not hard to imagine a spoofed copyright violation notice being sent by a child predator or an offended chatroom user who fishes for identification information for purposes of revenge or abuse. -Clint On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: This actually leads to another question: Based on Federal CALEA requirements, aren't we (the service provider) supposed to keep our detail records of subscibers and usage logs .We keep logs by using a centralied Syslog server, where we log access, based on time stamp records, we can go back and see who was using what IP address at what point in time... Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
We Nat everyone and we log not much of anything because I'm an internet service, not a monitoring service. They don't pay me to do such things therefore I don't. However, I did have one case of suspected child porn and told the cops to feel free to install their own box to log it and they did. All I gave them was a place to plug it in. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You have to be able to Identify the Customer, weather you do it via IP or any other info is a monior Technicality. A lot of the Subpoena issued via mail or fax are more 'in support' of whatever the case the appropriate law enforcemnet agency is working on. Next time you get a Subpoena Feel free to ignore it or tell them you cannot find the info. If what they are working on is important enough or if you piss off the right person, having a group of 4 or 5 agents showing up to your office, and telling you nicely You can either find the information for us now, or we can come back with a team of a dozen people and a court order, and find the information ourselves by taking everything apart is very real and a tremendous motivator. If I had not seen them do this, I would have chalked it off to being a 'movie line'. In Short, you can be a cowboy with an attituted with them, or you can cooperate, the choice is yours, but the consequences can be very real. Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You do NOT have to be able to identify the user by IP. What you have to be able to do is forward (in real time) all traffic to LEA. Butch Evens helped write our standard: http://www.wispa.org/calea/WCS/index.html he'll be able to give you much more accurate info on the specifics than I can. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Clint Ricker cric...@kentnis.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement CALEA does require that you be able to identify subscribers by IP address and, as necessary take captures. So, once this data is collected for CALEA compliance purposes (as is mandatory), then it can be used in other legal proceedings. However, I don't see how a service provider has to provide CALEA information unless requested by a law enforcement agency, which would require a criminal prosecution (to be accessed by the CALEA provisions which circumvent some of the normal due process for these requests) or a subpoena in an ongoing lawsuit. Still, all that said, I find it a complete breach of trust for a service provider to forward that information onto a third party outside of a subpoena or a CALEA request. This is true in cases of copyright enforcement, which is usually more of a civil dispute between two parties than a criminal matter. This breach of privacy could also be abused in other ways: it's not hard to imagine a spoofed copyright violation notice being sent by a child predator or an offended chatroom user who fishes for identification information for purposes of revenge or abuse. -Clint On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: This actually leads to another question: Based on Federal CALEA requirements, aren't we (the service provider) supposed to keep our detail records of subscibers and usage logs .We keep logs by using a centralied Syslog server, where we log access, based on time stamp records, we can go back and see who was using what IP address at what point in time... Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: So if you are running a NAT/DHCP network, how would you find the offending customer? We are running static/public so we don't run into this. I think the simplest way is to require the studio to provide the IP for the server delivering copyrighted information. The ISP has to be tracking CPE MACs. Use MT's torch or Wireshark to look at connections across the network to find the BT server
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
An that will be sufficient assuming that you can point to an IP on your network and know who has it at the time. the only way to do that is to track the MAC address of the CPE. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:25 PM To: fai...@snappydsl.net; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We Nat everyone and we log not much of anything because I'm an internet service, not a monitoring service. They don't pay me to do such things therefore I don't. However, I did have one case of suspected child porn and told the cops to feel free to install their own box to log it and they did. All I gave them was a place to plug it in. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You have to be able to Identify the Customer, weather you do it via IP or any other info is a monior Technicality. A lot of the Subpoena issued via mail or fax are more 'in support' of whatever the case the appropriate law enforcemnet agency is working on. Next time you get a Subpoena Feel free to ignore it or tell them you cannot find the info. If what they are working on is important enough or if you piss off the right person, having a group of 4 or 5 agents showing up to your office, and telling you nicely You can either find the information for us now, or we can come back with a team of a dozen people and a court order, and find the information ourselves by taking everything apart is very real and a tremendous motivator. If I had not seen them do this, I would have chalked it off to being a 'movie line'. In Short, you can be a cowboy with an attituted with them, or you can cooperate, the choice is yours, but the consequences can be very real. Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You do NOT have to be able to identify the user by IP. What you have to be able to do is forward (in real time) all traffic to LEA. Butch Evens helped write our standard: http://www.wispa.org/calea/WCS/index.html he'll be able to give you much more accurate info on the specifics than I can. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Clint Ricker cric...@kentnis.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement CALEA does require that you be able to identify subscribers by IP address and, as necessary take captures. So, once this data is collected for CALEA compliance purposes (as is mandatory), then it can be used in other legal proceedings. However, I don't see how a service provider has to provide CALEA information unless requested by a law enforcement agency, which would require a criminal prosecution (to be accessed by the CALEA provisions which circumvent some of the normal due process for these requests) or a subpoena in an ongoing lawsuit. Still, all that said, I find it a complete breach of trust for a service provider to forward that information onto a third party outside of a subpoena or a CALEA request. This is true in cases of copyright enforcement, which is usually more of a civil dispute between two parties than a criminal matter. This breach of privacy could also be abused in other ways: it's not hard to imagine a spoofed copyright violation notice being sent by a child predator or an offended chatroom user who fishes for identification information for purposes of revenge or abuse. -Clint On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: This actually leads to another question: Based on Federal CALEA requirements, aren't we (the service provider) supposed to keep our detail records of subscibers and usage logs .We keep logs by using a centralied Syslog server, where we log access, based on time stamp records, we can go back and see who was using what IP address at what point in time... Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Sounds like a lot of work. I think the question should be - Is it really your (our) job to protect those crappies revenue stream? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jerry Richardson
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
Exactly. They are the detectives so I basically told them to feel free to detect. Just don't mess with my network. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:27 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement An that will be sufficient assuming that you can point to an IP on your network and know who has it at the time. the only way to do that is to track the MAC address of the CPE. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:25 PM To: fai...@snappydsl.net; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We Nat everyone and we log not much of anything because I'm an internet service, not a monitoring service. They don't pay me to do such things therefore I don't. However, I did have one case of suspected child porn and told the cops to feel free to install their own box to log it and they did. All I gave them was a place to plug it in. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You have to be able to Identify the Customer, weather you do it via IP or any other info is a monior Technicality. A lot of the Subpoena issued via mail or fax are more 'in support' of whatever the case the appropriate law enforcemnet agency is working on. Next time you get a Subpoena Feel free to ignore it or tell them you cannot find the info. If what they are working on is important enough or if you piss off the right person, having a group of 4 or 5 agents showing up to your office, and telling you nicely You can either find the information for us now, or we can come back with a team of a dozen people and a court order, and find the information ourselves by taking everything apart is very real and a tremendous motivator. If I had not seen them do this, I would have chalked it off to being a 'movie line'. In Short, you can be a cowboy with an attituted with them, or you can cooperate, the choice is yours, but the consequences can be very real. Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You do NOT have to be able to identify the user by IP. What you have to be able to do is forward (in real time) all traffic to LEA. Butch Evens helped write our standard: http://www.wispa.org/calea/WCS/index.html he'll be able to give you much more accurate info on the specifics than I can. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Clint Ricker cric...@kentnis.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement CALEA does require that you be able to identify subscribers by IP address and, as necessary take captures. So, once this data is collected for CALEA compliance purposes (as is mandatory), then it can be used in other legal proceedings. However, I don't see how a service provider has to provide CALEA information unless requested by a law enforcement agency, which would require a criminal prosecution (to be accessed by the CALEA provisions which circumvent some of the normal due process for these requests) or a subpoena in an ongoing lawsuit. Still, all that said, I find it a complete breach of trust for a service provider to forward that information onto a third party outside of a subpoena or a CALEA request. This is true in cases of copyright enforcement, which is usually more of a civil dispute between two parties than a criminal matter. This breach of privacy could also be abused in other ways: it's not hard to imagine a spoofed copyright violation notice being sent by a child predator or an offended chatroom user who fishes for identification information for purposes of revenge or abuse. -Clint On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: This actually leads to another question: Based on Federal CALEA requirements, aren't we (the service provider) supposed to keep our detail records of subscibers and usage logs .We keep logs by using a centralied Syslog server, where we log access, based on time stamp records, we can go back and see who was using what IP address at what point in time... Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
I assume you gave them a port on your edge switch that mirrored your network feed? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:31 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Exactly. They are the detectives so I basically told them to feel free to detect. Just don't mess with my network. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:27 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement An that will be sufficient assuming that you can point to an IP on your network and know who has it at the time. the only way to do that is to track the MAC address of the CPE. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:25 PM To: fai...@snappydsl.net; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We Nat everyone and we log not much of anything because I'm an internet service, not a monitoring service. They don't pay me to do such things therefore I don't. However, I did have one case of suspected child porn and told the cops to feel free to install their own box to log it and they did. All I gave them was a place to plug it in. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You have to be able to Identify the Customer, weather you do it via IP or any other info is a monior Technicality. A lot of the Subpoena issued via mail or fax are more 'in support' of whatever the case the appropriate law enforcemnet agency is working on. Next time you get a Subpoena Feel free to ignore it or tell them you cannot find the info. If what they are working on is important enough or if you piss off the right person, having a group of 4 or 5 agents showing up to your office, and telling you nicely You can either find the information for us now, or we can come back with a team of a dozen people and a court order, and find the information ourselves by taking everything apart is very real and a tremendous motivator. If I had not seen them do this, I would have chalked it off to being a 'movie line'. In Short, you can be a cowboy with an attituted with them, or you can cooperate, the choice is yours, but the consequences can be very real. Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You do NOT have to be able to identify the user by IP. What you have to be able to do is forward (in real time) all traffic to LEA. Butch Evens helped write our standard: http://www.wispa.org/calea/WCS/index.html he'll be able to give you much more accurate info on the specifics than I can. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Clint Ricker cric...@kentnis.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement CALEA does require that you be able to identify subscribers by IP address and, as necessary take captures. So, once this data is collected for CALEA compliance purposes (as is mandatory), then it can be used in other legal proceedings. However, I don't see how a service provider has to provide CALEA information unless requested by a law enforcement agency, which would require a criminal prosecution (to be accessed by the CALEA provisions which circumvent some of the normal due process for these requests) or a subpoena in an ongoing lawsuit. Still, all that said, I find it a complete breach of trust for a service provider to forward that information onto a third party outside of a subpoena or a CALEA request. This is true in cases of copyright enforcement, which is usually more of a civil dispute between two parties than a criminal matter. This breach of privacy could also be abused in other ways: it's not hard to imagine a spoofed copyright violation notice being sent by a child predator or an offended chatroom user who fishes for identification information for purposes of revenge or abuse. -Clint On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: This actually leads to another question: Based on Federal CALEA requirements, aren't we (the service provider) supposed to keep our detail records of subscibers and usage logs .We keep logs by using a
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
They just plugged some linux box one of their computer cop dudes put together into our main switch in the office and left. They monitored it from the cop shop. All we told them was we needed to see a court order before they plugged the thing in. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement I assume you gave them a port on your edge switch that mirrored your network feed? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:31 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Exactly. They are the detectives so I basically told them to feel free to detect. Just don't mess with my network. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:27 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement An that will be sufficient assuming that you can point to an IP on your network and know who has it at the time. the only way to do that is to track the MAC address of the CPE. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:25 PM To: fai...@snappydsl.net; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We Nat everyone and we log not much of anything because I'm an internet service, not a monitoring service. They don't pay me to do such things therefore I don't. However, I did have one case of suspected child porn and told the cops to feel free to install their own box to log it and they did. All I gave them was a place to plug it in. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You have to be able to Identify the Customer, weather you do it via IP or any other info is a monior Technicality. A lot of the Subpoena issued via mail or fax are more 'in support' of whatever the case the appropriate law enforcemnet agency is working on. Next time you get a Subpoena Feel free to ignore it or tell them you cannot find the info. If what they are working on is important enough or if you piss off the right person, having a group of 4 or 5 agents showing up to your office, and telling you nicely You can either find the information for us now, or we can come back with a team of a dozen people and a court order, and find the information ourselves by taking everything apart is very real and a tremendous motivator. If I had not seen them do this, I would have chalked it off to being a 'movie line'. In Short, you can be a cowboy with an attituted with them, or you can cooperate, the choice is yours, but the consequences can be very real. Faisal Imtiaz Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement You do NOT have to be able to identify the user by IP. What you have to be able to do is forward (in real time) all traffic to LEA. Butch Evens helped write our standard: http://www.wispa.org/calea/WCS/index.html he'll be able to give you much more accurate info on the specifics than I can. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Clint Ricker cric...@kentnis.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement CALEA does require that you be able to identify subscribers by IP address and, as necessary take captures. So, once this data is collected for CALEA compliance purposes (as is mandatory), then it can be used in other legal proceedings. However, I don't see how a service provider has to provide CALEA information unless requested by a law enforcement agency, which would require a criminal prosecution (to be accessed by the CALEA provisions which circumvent some of the normal due process for these requests) or a subpoena in an ongoing lawsuit. Still, all that said, I find it a complete breach of trust for a service provider to forward that information onto a third party outside of a subpoena or a CALEA request. This is true in cases of copyright enforcement, which is usually more of a civil dispute between two parties than a criminal matter. This breach of privacy could also be abused in other ways: it's not
Re: [WISPA] CPE - who buys it?
Tom, Your reply is the the info I was looking for. Thanks for your reply. I do believe you are correct but I'll double-check with my county and CPA. I've moved so many times around the country that I cant keep up! Just a note, we have been paying our property taxes by default because of our lessor passes it on to us. The reason I'm inquiring is in preparation for when our lease is paid off (early next year). With that said, I have an additional question: Do you pay property taxes on every screw, nut, bolt? -RickG On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: Rick, No your assumption is not true. Property Tax is applied on property. When you buy radio CPE it shows up on your financials as property, and if you TAX DEDUCT the cost of the CPE, which I sure hope you do for your benefit, you have claimed those purchases as property. A Auditor isn;t going to go look for a single small purchase. But I assure you CPEs, a line item which adds up to be a huge inaggregate cost, they will immediately see that property and recognize whether that property was declared, and property tax properly paid on it or not. As a matter of fact some counties will check you federal returns, to find your claimed deductions and depreciations, and automatically assess your property tax based on your Federal Tax Returns. SO IF your county charges Property Tax then your CPEs are TAXABLE PROPERTY UNLESS your county specifically has passsed a law to excemption radio equipment. Loudon County Virgina is one specific County that made Wireless CPE exempt from property tax to foster local investment in Broadband. I wish more counties were as insightful, because it was a very effective program. Property Tax is NOT just for large real estate. Its paid on EVERY TANGIBLE ASSET you own. That include an office chair, a computer, a telephone, a router, a CPE, what ever it is that you own. Mike, Just because nobody has been commming around asking for Property Tax on CPE does not make it not owed. Property Tax is self claimed, so the government doesn't know you have that property until they decide to audit you, or you tell them. But why do you pay any tax of any kind at all? After all, if you aren't audited you wont have to pay it? Because you know when you are audited, you'll be in big trouble if you didn't. The same applied to Property Tax. The burden is on the Property Owner to know the law and properly report Tax, or it is illegal TAX Evading, if the owner does not report it. Yes, I've fully qualified the above with attorneys and accountants. I learned this the hard way. I originally over paid my property taxes, because I didn't know the laws. When I learned I over paid, I stopped reporting and paying Property tax. I got audited by the county, and they decided to estimate my Property Tax based on data reported on my income tax returns, which was about 10 times more than I actually owed. The way it work is, you pay everything the government claims, and then if you protest the amounts and win, they'll send you a refund. I made the mistake of fighting the process, and when I didn't pay the wrong amounts, they simply immediately cancelled my corporate status, reported it to credit agencies, and made it impossible for me to get a LOAN for over 1.5 years. I couldn't even renew my ARIN IP, until I got it cleared up. The reason you report Property Tax on CPE is so you can report the correct amounts. The government does not have access to the fact to assess a correct amount and will always grossly over estimate. You should also include a letter explaining anything that might look odd. This is the thing Property Tax is paid to the State that the property is located and installed in. So if you are a Pennsylvania business, and buy equipment from California, and install the CPE into Maryland, you pay Property Tax on that CPE to Maryland. The problem here is that most WISPs dont track where they will install a CPE at the time they buy bulk CPE, so there is usually not a good record of where to pay tax to. SO... IF you buy 100 CPEs and Pay Tax on 100 CPEs to your State, and then isntall 30 of those CPEs in another State, you owe that second State Property Tax for 30 CPEs. This means that you are at risk of paying Tax TWICE, if you do not properly track where property resides and break tax payments down appropriately to match. This is one of the reasons I am against tracking an ISP's end user locations. The States/Counties will then have a clear record to track how many CPEs an ISP has in their County. To find out if you owe property tax, you need to look at county code. Dont look for something to say that you have to pay tax on CPE, because it wont be there. By default you are obligated to pay tax on EVERYTHING, unless an excemption was given. So you are looking for an Excemption in the County Tax Code specifically for broadband
Re: [WISPA] customers dogs chewing on CAT5
How about http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetailproductId=69899-1267-FO550Mlpage=none where the dogs can reach it? John Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I've had several customers that have had their dog chew on the Cat5 going from the house to the TV tower and some of them multiple times. Anyone have ideas on how to keep the dog from chewing on the wire? I've got one customer on their 3rd Cat5 run and going out right now to replace a different customer that will be his 3rd one as well. I'm about ready to shoot the stinking dog.. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
