Re: [WISPA] UBNT Bullet5 review... - OFFLIST
This seems to be happening a lot lately :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Charles Wu (CTI) Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT Bullet5 review... - OFFLIST Chuck, Just a word of friendly advice The Canopy / WISP resale world is a competitive and brutal space -- if your plan is to target WISPs, I'd recommend that you save the trouble and find another vertical market or product The reseller cost that you see isn't that far off of what street WISP pricing is for anyone who's deploying in any decent quantity -- that's just the nature of the business You need a minimum of $5 million / year in volume and probably close to $500k in stock to get in the WISP game -- but at this point in the game, you're in a chicken egg situation, since I'm not quite sure how you'd build up that volume, given that (1) most WISPs already have pre-existing relationships with their current suppliers, and inertia is an extremely hard thing to break (2) any new WISP you spend the time to get going that results in any decent volume will probably get swiped by the bigger guys because it ultimately all boils down to price and financing -- and they have the volume and pricing advantage to take you out of the market There's a reason why Streakwave went back to focus on Mikrotik / Ubiquiti 2 years ago Irregardless, whether or not you choose to listen to my advice, Welcome to the big leagues =) -Charles P.S. -- we need to sync up again sometime and talk about how IP Pay can save you $$$ -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT Bullet5 review... The cheapest I have ever seen large bulk distributor pricing with buyback money is a little over $200 per SM except 900Mhz. Now, if you are looking at the Lite version SM's they certainly can be had for cheaper. All these WISPs claiming cheaper price is not telling the truth. Even Motorola disputes the price when questioned (yes I am a distributor of Motorola products too). Ask that WISP to buy 100 packs from them for me, I'll pay a 10% premium! Also, I agree with both of you here. Having both 900MHz Trango and 2.4Ghz MikroTik, the Trango performs very impressively with 50 clients per AP. I have a few AP's that are currently 100+ and they don't drop packets, and the latency is great in comparison. However, properly maintained 802.11 networks do pretty well also, but I don't see them outperforming what Trango does on clients per AP level. Regards, Chuck Hogg Avolutia, LLC 502-722-9292 ch...@avolutia.com http://www.avolutia.com http://www.shelbybb.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 10:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT Bullet5 review... Matt, I know we have already discussed this several times, and I'm not sure we need to do it again... but maybe you could explain how you could have setup a plain 802.11g wireless AP so that each client (using all different kinds of wireless adapters) could have gotten equal bandwidth and latency at AF09? And, once again, I have done test after test after test using 802.11 stuff... and every single time (using Mikrotik without Nstreme, using StarOS, using OSBridge and using Nanostations) if we setup an AP and we connect two clients with laptops and start a continuous upload, the other client is basically dead in the water. Even if we limit the upload to 2Mbps or 3Mbps, when that client starts the upload, the other client has very high latency, very bad download speeds, etc. As for price on Canopy vs. 802.11... things are not always as they seem. I know of a large Canopy operator that is buying radios for $160 each. ;) And, we have Trango AP's that only deliver 5Mbps total with 128 clients and we deliver 4ms latency to every single client. Travis Microserv Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Sorry Travis, but you are dead wrong about 802.11 not being able to scale beyond 20 users, especially with 802.11a. I explained how it can be done to you before and I have consulting clients with 10,000 plus users on their 802.11 based networks scaling right up to the same size as any Canopy or Trango network.You might not be able to get to 150 subs per AP, but you can certainly hit 50-75 per sector and offer service that is damn close and a far sight cheaper than what Canopy will do. I would take a StarOS a/b/g network over a Canopy system every day of the week. As far as problems at AF09 - that is what you get when Canopy guys are running an 802.11 network. If I was running it with the proven equipment and deployment methods that many of us use on 802.11 networks
Re: [WISPA] Network tower cam
Our website is still under construction (I guess that's what we are calling it) Check them out here: http://www.inscapedata.com/airgoggle.htm Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Network tower cam If I click IP Cameras on your products page I get 0 results on a search page :/ On 1/22/09, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: Inscape Data... we used them on our towers. We sell them too ;-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 6:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Network tower cam We are interested in putting a camera up on a tower to get some we're 700 1337 4 u feel. I do want a PoE/Ethernet one - no coax/analog cameras! Does anyone have suggestions? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 awo+IEVhY2ggdGltZSBwZW9wbGUgY29tcGxhaW4gYWJvdXQgdGhlIGxhY2sgb2YgaGlnaC Bz cGVl ZCBpbnRlcm5ldCBhY2Nlc3MgaXQgCj4gaXMgcXVpdGUgZGVwbG9yYWJsZSBpbmRlZWQgaW Yg dGhl cmUgaXMgbm8gYWNjZXNzIHRocm91Z2ggZWl0aGVyIGRzbCBvciAKPiBjYWJsZSBwcm92aW Rl cnMg YXZhaWxhYmxlIGluIHlvdXIgYXJlYS4KPiBIb3dldmVyLCBpZiBlaXRoZXIgb25lIG9mIH Ro b3Nl IHNlcnZpY2VzIGNhbiBiZSBvYnRhaW5lZCB0aHJvdWdoIHlvdXIgCj4gbG9jYWwgcGhvbm Ug Y29t cGFueSBvciBjYWJsZSBwcm92aWRlciBpdKGmcyBub3QgdmVyeSByZWFzb25hYmxlIHRvIA o+ IGNv bXBsYWluIGFuZCBleHBlY3QgY2FibGUgdG8gYmUgc3RydW5nIHRvIHlvdXIgaG9tZSBzby B5 b3Ug Y2FuIGVuam95IAo+IGhpZ2hlciBpbnRlcm5ldCBzcGVlZCByZWxhdGl2ZWx5IHRvIHdoYX Qg RFNM IGNhbiBwcmVzZW50bHkgb2ZmZXIgaW4gdGhlIAo+IFVTQSB3aGlsZSBzdGlsbCBjb21wbG Fp bmlu ZyBhYm91dCA1MCBkb2xsYXIgcGVyIG1vbnRoIHByaWNlIHRhZyBpbiBzcGl0ZSAKPiBvZi B0 aGUg ZmFjdCB0aGF0IGl0IHdvdWxkIGNvc3QgdGVucyBvZiB0aG91c2FuZHMgb2YgZG9sbGFycy Bv ciBp biBzb21lIAo+IGNhc2VzIGh1bmRyZWRzIG9mIHRob3VzYW5kcyBmb3IgY2FibGUgY29tcG Fu aWVz IHRvIGRvIGl0IGluIG1hbnkgcGxhY2VzLiAKPiBGb3IgaG93IGxvbmcgd291bGQgeW91ci Bt b250 aGx5IHJhdGUgb2YgNTAgVVNEIHRha2UgdG8gZGVmcmF5IHRoZSBjb3N0IG9mIAo+IGluc3 Rh bGxh dGlvbiBmb3IgY2FibGUgY29tcGFuaWVzPyBUaGV5oaZyZSBpbiBidXNpbmVzcyBvZiBnZW 5l cmF0 aW5nIAo+IHJldmVudWUgZm9yIHRoZWlyIHNoYXJlaG9sZGVycyBhbmQgYXJlIGluZGVlZC Bw cml2 YXRlIGVudGVycHJpc2VzIHJhdGhlciAKPiB0aGFuIGNoYXJpdGllcyBhbmQgdGhlaXIgcH Jp bWFy eSBvYmxpZ2F0aW9uIGlzIHRvIGdlbmVyYXRlIHJldHVybiBvbiAKPiBzaGFyZWhvbGRlcq Gm cyBp bnZlc3RtZW50Lgo+IEluIHRoZW9yeSwgQURTTDIgKHVwIHRvIDI0IG1icykgdGhyb3VnaC Bj b3Bw ZXIgbGluZXMgaXMgcGVyZmVjdGx5IGFibGUgdG8gCj4gbWF0Y2ggYW5kIGV2ZW4gZXhjZW Vk IHR5 cGljYWwgMTAgb3IgMTUgbWJzIHBsYW5zIHRoYXQgYXJlIHVzdWFsbHkgb2ZmZXJlZCAKPi Bi eSBj YWJsZSBjb21wYW5pZXMuIEluIHJlYWxpdHkgZHNsIHNpZ25hbCBpcyBzZW5zaXRpdmUgYW 5k IHRo ZSBsb25nZXIgdGhlIAo+IGRpc3RhbmNlIGZyb20gdGVsLiBjby4gbmV0d29yayBjZW50ZX Ig KGRz bGFtKSB0aGUgc2xvd2VyIGl0IGJlY29tZXMuIEFEU0wyIAo+IGlzIGEgdHlwZSBvZiB0ZW No bm9s b2d5IHdoaWNoIGlzIHF1aXRlIHBvcHVsYXIgaW4gU291dGggS29yZWEuIEl0oaZzIG5vdC AK PiB0 cnVlIHRoYXQgZXZlcnlvbmUgaW4gS29yZWEgaGFzIGZpYmVybGlua3MgdG8gdGhlaXIgaG 9t ZXMu IER1ZSB0byAKPiBwb3B1bGF0aW9uIGRlbnNpdHkgaXQgaXMgd2h5IHVubGlrZSBpbiBBbW Vy aWNh IEFEU0wyIGRvZXMgd29yayB2ZXJ5IHdlbGwgCj4gYW5kIGlzIGEgcHJhY3RpY2FsIHNvbH V0 aW9u IGluIHRoYXQgY291bnRyeS4KPiBPZiBjb3Vyc2UsIGl0IGlzIGluZXhjdXNhYmxlIGFuZC Bt dXN0 IGJlIG91dGxhd2VkIGF0IHN0YXRlIGFuZCBmZWRlcmFsIAo+IGxldmVsIGZvciB0ZWxlY2 9t IGFu ZCBjYWJsZSBjb21wYW5pZXMgdG8gc3R5bWllIGFuZCBpbnRlcmZlcmUgd2l0aCBsb2NhbC AK PiBp bml0aWF0aXZlcyB3aGVyZXZlciBhbmQgd2hlbmV2ZXIgbG9jYWwgY29tbXVuaXRpZXMgZG Vj aWRl IHRvIGltcGxlbWVudCAKPiBmaWJlciBvciBhbnkgb3RoZXIgYnJvYWRiYW5kIHRlY2hub2 xv Z3kg YXMgdGhleSBzZWUgZml0IGZvciB0aGVpciAKPiByZXNpZGVudHMuIEl0IGlzIGV2ZW4gbW 9y ZSB1 bmNvbnNjaW9uYWJsZSB0byBpbnRlcmZlcmUgd2hlbiBubyBzZXJ2aWNlIGlzIAo+IGF2YW ls YWJs ZSBmcm9tIHRob3NlIGNvbXBhbmllcy4KPiBJbiBtYW55IGluc3RhbmNlcyB3aGVuIHBlb3 Bs ZSBj b21wYXJlIGJyb2FkYmFuZCBhdmFpbGFiaWxpdHkgaW4gSmFwYW4sIAo+IFNvdXRoIEtvcm Vh IGFu ZCBFdXJvcGUgdGhlIGZhY3QgdGhhdCBwZW9wbGUgaW4gdGhlIGZpcnN0IHR3byBjb3VudH Jp ZXMg Cj4gbWVudGlvbmVkIGFib3ZlIG92ZXJ3aGVsbWluZ2x5IHRlbmQgdG8gcmVzaWRlIGluIG Fw YXJ0 bWVudHMgcmF0aGVyIHRoYW4gaW4gCj4gcHJpdmF0ZSBob21lcyBkaXNwZXJzZWQgb3Zlci Bh IHZl cnkgbGFyZ2UgYXJlYSBtYWtlcyBpbnN0YWxsYXRpb24gbXVjaCAKPiBlYXNpZXIgYW5kIG No ZWFw ZXIgdGhhbiBpbiBBbWVyaWNhLiBUaGUgZGVuc2l0eSBvZiBwb3B1bGF0aW9uIGluIEphcG Fu IG9y IAo+IFNvdXRoIEtvcmVhIGNsdXN0ZXJlZCB0b2dldGhlciBtYWtlcyBhbnkgZGlyZWN0IG Nv bXBh cmlzb24gYmVjb21lIHNvbWV3aGF0IAo+IG1vb3QgZm9yIEFtZXJpY2Fucy4gVGhlIFVTIG lz IGEg SFVHRSBjb3VudHJ5IHdoZXJlIHBlb3BsZSBhcmUgbW9yZSBzcHJlYWQgCj4gb3V0IHRoYW 4g cHJv YmFibHkgaW4gYW55IG90aGVyIGluZHVzdHJpYWxpemVkIG5hdGlvbi4gSGVuY2UsIGEgbG 9u ZyBh bmQgCj4gZXhwZW5zaXZlIGJyb2FkYmFuZCByb2xsIG91dCBiZWZvcmUgaXQgYmVjb21lcy By ZWFk aWx5IGF2YWlsYWJsZSBmb3IgCj4gZXZlcnlvbmUgaW4gQW1lcmljYS4KPiBSZWdhcmRpbm cg RXVy
Re: [WISPA] Network tower cam
Yeah they are not necessarily cheap lol. We used them as a security solution... not really a webcam for our customers Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Network tower cam Those look to be way more elaborate then our goal. We simply want images (or possibly even video if it is flash) on our website. On 1/22/09, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: Our website is still under construction (I guess that's what we are calling it) Check them out here: http://www.inscapedata.com/airgoggle.htm Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Network tower cam If I click IP Cameras on your products page I get 0 results on a search page :/ On 1/22/09, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: Inscape Data... we used them on our towers. We sell them too ;-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 6:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Network tower cam We are interested in putting a camera up on a tower to get some we're 700 1337 4 u feel. I do want a PoE/Ethernet one - no coax/analog cameras! Does anyone have suggestions? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 awo+IEVhY2ggdGltZSBwZW9wbGUgY29tcGxhaW4gYWJvdXQgdGhlIGxhY2sgb2YgaGln aC Bz cGVl ZCBpbnRlcm5ldCBhY2Nlc3MgaXQgCj4gaXMgcXVpdGUgZGVwbG9yYWJsZSBpbmRlZWQg aW Yg dGhl cmUgaXMgbm8gYWNjZXNzIHRocm91Z2ggZWl0aGVyIGRzbCBvciAKPiBjYWJsZSBwcm92 aW Rl cnMg YXZhaWxhYmxlIGluIHlvdXIgYXJlYS4KPiBIb3dldmVyLCBpZiBlaXRoZXIgb25lIG9m IH Ro b3Nl IHNlcnZpY2VzIGNhbiBiZSBvYnRhaW5lZCB0aHJvdWdoIHlvdXIgCj4gbG9jYWwgcGhv bm Ug Y29t cGFueSBvciBjYWJsZSBwcm92aWRlciBpdKGmcyBub3QgdmVyeSByZWFzb25hYmxlIHRv IA o+ IGNv bXBsYWluIGFuZCBleHBlY3QgY2FibGUgdG8gYmUgc3RydW5nIHRvIHlvdXIgaG9tZSBz by B5 b3Ug Y2FuIGVuam95IAo+IGhpZ2hlciBpbnRlcm5ldCBzcGVlZCByZWxhdGl2ZWx5IHRvIHdo YX Qg RFNM IGNhbiBwcmVzZW50bHkgb2ZmZXIgaW4gdGhlIAo+IFVTQSB3aGlsZSBzdGlsbCBjb21w bG Fp bmlu ZyBhYm91dCA1MCBkb2xsYXIgcGVyIG1vbnRoIHByaWNlIHRhZyBpbiBzcGl0ZSAKPiBv Zi B0 aGUg ZmFjdCB0aGF0IGl0IHdvdWxkIGNvc3QgdGVucyBvZiB0aG91c2FuZHMgb2YgZG9sbGFy cy Bv ciBp biBzb21lIAo+IGNhc2VzIGh1bmRyZWRzIG9mIHRob3VzYW5kcyBmb3IgY2FibGUgY29t cG Fu aWVz IHRvIGRvIGl0IGluIG1hbnkgcGxhY2VzLiAKPiBGb3IgaG93IGxvbmcgd291bGQgeW91 ci Bt b250 aGx5IHJhdGUgb2YgNTAgVVNEIHRha2UgdG8gZGVmcmF5IHRoZSBjb3N0IG9mIAo+IGlu c3 Rh bGxh dGlvbiBmb3IgY2FibGUgY29tcGFuaWVzPyBUaGV5oaZyZSBpbiBidXNpbmVzcyBvZiBn ZW 5l cmF0 aW5nIAo+IHJldmVudWUgZm9yIHRoZWlyIHNoYXJlaG9sZGVycyBhbmQgYXJlIGluZGVl ZC Bw cml2 YXRlIGVudGVycHJpc2VzIHJhdGhlciAKPiB0aGFuIGNoYXJpdGllcyBhbmQgdGhlaXIg cH Jp bWFy eSBvYmxpZ2F0aW9uIGlzIHRvIGdlbmVyYXRlIHJldHVybiBvbiAKPiBzaGFyZWhvbGRl cq Gm cyBp bnZlc3RtZW50Lgo+IEluIHRoZW9yeSwgQURTTDIgKHVwIHRvIDI0IG1icykgdGhyb3Vn aC Bj b3Bw ZXIgbGluZXMgaXMgcGVyZmVjdGx5IGFibGUgdG8gCj4gbWF0Y2ggYW5kIGV2ZW4gZXhj ZW Vk IHR5 cGljYWwgMTAgb3IgMTUgbWJzIHBsYW5zIHRoYXQgYXJlIHVzdWFsbHkgb2ZmZXJlZCAK Pi Bi eSBj YWJsZSBjb21wYW5pZXMuIEluIHJlYWxpdHkgZHNsIHNpZ25hbCBpcyBzZW5zaXRpdmUg YW 5k IHRo ZSBsb25nZXIgdGhlIAo+IGRpc3RhbmNlIGZyb20gdGVsLiBjby4gbmV0d29yayBjZW50 ZX Ig KGRz bGFtKSB0aGUgc2xvd2VyIGl0IGJlY29tZXMuIEFEU0wyIAo+IGlzIGEgdHlwZSBvZiB0 ZW No bm9s b2d5IHdoaWNoIGlzIHF1aXRlIHBvcHVsYXIgaW4gU291dGggS29yZWEuIEl0oaZzIG5v dC AK PiB0 cnVlIHRoYXQgZXZlcnlvbmUgaW4gS29yZWEgaGFzIGZpYmVybGlua3MgdG8gdGhlaXIg aG 9t ZXMu IER1ZSB0byAKPiBwb3B1bGF0aW9uIGRlbnNpdHkgaXQgaXMgd2h5IHVubGlrZSBpbiBB bW Vy aWNh IEFEU0wyIGRvZXMgd29yayB2ZXJ5IHdlbGwgCj4gYW5kIGlzIGEgcHJhY3RpY2FsIHNv bH V0 aW9u IGluIHRoYXQgY291bnRyeS4KPiBPZiBjb3Vyc2UsIGl0IGlzIGluZXhjdXNhYmxlIGFu ZC Bt dXN0 IGJlIG91dGxhd2VkIGF0IHN0YXRlIGFuZCBmZWRlcmFsIAo+IGxldmVsIGZvciB0ZWxl Y2 9t IGFu ZCBjYWJsZSBjb21wYW5pZXMgdG8gc3R5bWllIGFuZCBpbnRlcmZlcmUgd2l0aCBsb2Nh bC AK PiBp bml0aWF0aXZlcyB3aGVyZXZlciBhbmQgd2hlbmV2ZXIgbG9jYWwgY29tbXVuaXRpZXMg ZG Vj aWRl IHRvIGltcGxlbWVudCAKPiBmaWJlciBvciBhbnkgb3RoZXIgYnJvYWRiYW5kIHRlY2hu b2 xv Z3kg YXMgdGhleSBzZWUgZml0IGZvciB0aGVpciAKPiByZXNpZGVudHMuIEl0IGlzIGV2ZW4g bW 9y ZSB1 bmNvbnNjaW9uYWJsZSB0byBpbnRlcmZlcmUgd2hlbiBubyBzZXJ2aWNlIGlzIAo+IGF2 YW ls YWJs ZSBmcm9tIHRob3NlIGNvbXBhbmllcy4KPiBJbiBtYW55IGluc3RhbmNlcyB3aGVuIHBl b3 Bs ZSBj b21wYXJlIGJyb2FkYmFuZCBhdmFpbGFiaWxpdHkgaW4gSmFwYW4sIAo+IFNvdXRoIEtv cm Vh IGFu ZCBFdXJvcGUgdGhlIGZhY3QgdGhhdCBwZW9wbGUgaW4gdGhlIGZpcnN0IHR3byBjb3Vu dH Jp ZXMg Cj4gbWVudGlvbmVkIGFib3ZlIG92ZXJ3aGVsbWluZ2x5IHRlbmQgdG8gcmVzaWRlIGlu IG Fw YXJ0 bWVudHMgcmF0aGVyIHRoYW4gaW4gCj4gcHJpdmF0ZSBob21lcyBkaXNwZXJzZWQgb3Zl ci Bh IHZl
[WISPA] 3.65GHz Redline BH
Does anyone have the spec sheet? I see one on their website but its marked preliminary. hoping they had something a bit more complete. Maybe someone can help answer a few questions for me: What is the max throughput roughly per channel size? What type of range are these things getting? Thanks! Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Redline BH
Thank you Mike I think that was were I was confused Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Goicoechea Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 3:17 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Redline BH The confusion may be that the AN-80 with 3.65 PTMP should be in March. AN-80i MAX Plus Radio ptp supports 3.3-3.8 GHz and 3.65 GHz band in the US. High power radio up to 25 dBm and 21 dBm @ 64 QAM Many more channel sizes : 3.5, 5, 7, 10, 14, 20, 28 MHz Thanks, Mike Goicoechea -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Suitor Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 8:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Redline BH The MAX+ 3.5 with FCC approval is now available. We have been shipping this product worldwide since 4Q 2008. Please check with your Redline Certified Partner for up to date information. I am checking on why the brochure on the web site is still marked preliminary. Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 9:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Redline BH These are not officially available yet. Hence the lack of information. I have a pair at our office for testing if anyone wants to swing by. Unfortunately, I can't share any results at this point. -Matt On Jan 23, 2009, at 8:12 AM, 3-dB Networks wrote: Does anyone have the spec sheet? I see one on their website but its marked preliminary. hoping they had something a bit more complete. Maybe someone can help answer a few questions for me: What is the max throughput roughly per channel size? What type of range are these things getting? Thanks! Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tower Climbing Safety Classes
I absolutely agree... nice to have a class taught by guys that have done a lot of tower climbing in their time... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:40 PM To: isr...@sandboxitsolutions.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower Climbing Safety Classes From what I have been told and have read you can stop shopping. ComTrain is the place to go. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Israel Lopez - Lists ilopezli...@sandboxitsolutions.com wrote: Hello There, I'm looking for some basic tower climbing safety courses. I found one online, directed by ComTrain. http://comtrainusa.com/courses-available/certification-courses/basic- 2-days-mainmenu-27 But I would like to see what else is out there. Anyone know of similar companies/courses available? Preferably in California. Thank you kindly. -Israel -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 24 GHz
I'd only choose Dragonwave's offering... Snaplink has a product but I have not heard good things about it (and considering the cost of Snaplink I think Dragonwave is the better deal). Hit me offlist if you want to chat more or get some quotes. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 6:00 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] 24 GHz Any recommendations on 24GHz radios for short backhaul links? -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc work: 435-773-6071 email: rco...@infowest.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 24 GHz
Yep... and the alignment adjustments on the Snaplink leave something to be desired. Snaplink is also fixed with a one foot dish... you can do up to 2.5 with Dragonwave. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24 GHz The Snaplink is a wifi style radiom. 54 Mb devided by 2 and subtract 10 percent or 22 Mb. Dragonwave is true full duplex Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:58:39 To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24 GHz I'd only choose Dragonwave's offering... Snaplink has a product but I have not heard good things about it (and considering the cost of Snaplink I think Dragonwave is the better deal). Hit me offlist if you want to chat more or get some quotes. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 6:00 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] 24 GHz Any recommendations on 24GHz radios for short backhaul links? -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc work: 435-773-6071 email: rco...@infowest.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
FSO and 70/80GHz equipment is very sensitive to movement... make sure your not doing towers and you have no movement on the mount. We purchased some Cablefree licensed gear back when we were Mesa... but its still sitting in a box (decided not to deploy the 38GHz link... it's a long long story). I do know we had some issues getting the gear from them... but the price point was attractive and they appear to be big in Europe. We have been working closely with E-band lately... we see a lot of things we like over there. But I also don't think they are a replacement to Bridgewave... in ways they complement each other. I have no clue why your considering 18GHz for a 1.2km shot... 23GHz 1ft Horizon Compact ought to do it with no problems. I'd still choose Dragonwave for this shot... unless you have plans to go to Gigabit then 80GHz/FSO are better options for future upgrades. If you need a more granular upgrade (Say to 200Mb) Dragonwave would probably work out better. Anyways my 2 cents Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Greene Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:40 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? Hey all, Following up on this thread ... First off, thanks to those who've offered advice off-list. It's been very helpful. Looks like we're seriously considering Trango Apex 18GHz ... our used Dragonwave lead didn't pan out. A couple other options have come up, too: E-Band's E-Link 1000 (~75GHz licensed, at a promotional price) or Cablefree G1500 (a 780nm FSO product). Anyone have any experience / feedback regarding either of these two products (or companies)? Again, we're trying to create a 1.2 km urban link in an ITU-R rain region K zone, really only need 100Mbps, need ~5 9's of reliability, and sub-$13k (price is an object). Thanks, Adam - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? You can go Dragonwave 24 Ghz Unlicensed Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Greene Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? Just to resuscitate this thread ... We have a 1.2Km urban link, really only need 100Mbps, need ~5 9's of reliability. We have deployed Mikrotik 5.3GHz and Radwin 5.3GHz and are getting interference. We've also gotten interfered with on Alvarion VL 5.8. We'd like to do 80GHz Bridgewave, but it's too expensive. 60GHz Bridgewave doesn't have enough reliability according to the link budget calculations. Without actually taking a spectrum analyzer to the location, what suggestion would anyone have about the best frequency radio to deploy, to minimize interference issues, get ~100Mbps throughput and not pay more than ~$13,000 (including advance replacement warranty)? We're thinking Trango Apex or Dragonwave ... Thanks, Adam - Original Message - From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 10:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? Half mile? Ours is almost 2.5miles in an RF unfriendly rain zone. The link has been up for more than a year and the client has been thrilled. So thrilled in fact that we've got another planned for them with a roadmap of more to follow. They're happy with the price and we're happy with the profit at that price. No reason to race to the bottom with yet another product when the market clearly supports the current price point. Again, what are the options available today that can produce 1Gbps with AES256 encryption at line speed? The encryption alone can be valued at $10k - $20k depending on who you ask. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 9:24 PM To: can...@believewireless.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? I fully agree. I'll add... the value of millimeterwave is 80Ghz, to actually have a license for next to free. The FCC created that for provider's benefit, not for manufacturers to charge us more and put the savings in their pockets. The truth is that 80Ghz takes the same cost to make as 60Ghz. But for some reason the manufacturers try to charge s premium, a lot more for the 80Ghz. I get pissed off everytime I think about it. It just holds the industry back for no good reason. We aren't to the $8000 figure yet
Re: [WISPA] BS....was Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
Generally 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, and 23GHz will cost somewhere in the range of $3k to license depending on how you go about it. Best course of action is to always have the company your buying the gear from do the licensing work... it will usually be cheaper and prevent mistakes. If your doing multiple links at the same time costs go down, as somethings (like the RF study) can be used over the multiple links. FCC Fees are $1290 per link... but that fee is waived for government, non-profit, etc. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:22 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] BSwas Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? 38GHz is typically leased from a third party. 18GHz is leased directly from the FCC. Typically 38GHz is more expensive over the course of ten years as opposed to 18GHz, 23GHz, 11GHz 6GHz, etc from the FCC. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of sa...@michianawireless.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:27 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] BSwas Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? Out of curiosity. What is the cost to the FCC for a 10 year 38 ghz or an 18ghz license? Thanks, John Buwa WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BS....was Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
I knew you would pipe in with your promo Charles... but the standard over the industry for at least the last two years has been to expect $3k a link... I'm not saying we charge that either... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 5:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] BSwas Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? Generally 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, and 23GHz will cost somewhere in the range of $3k to license depending on how you go about it. Best course of action is to always have the company your buying the gear from do the licensing work... it will usually be cheaper and prevent mistakes. Wow...$3k? Assuming $1300 in FCC fees -- that's still $1,700 for licensing services (NOTE TO SELF: time to end that $595 Part 101 licensing promo) -Charles This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone at 630-344-1586. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
Well... I'd be happy to quote you a Dragonwave link... I think you will be surprised how close it comes to the Trango pricing... and I think the performance is much better (I don't want to rehash that whole thread). We also will take care of all of the licensing work for you. Hit me offlist if you like. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Niemantsverdriet Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link I am looking for a good place to get an 18ghz link, where do you guys suggest. Ideally the company would also procure the licence for us. I am thinking I want the Trango APEX because of it cost / performance. So if anybody has suggestions on a good company to use I am all ears! Thanks, _ /-\ ndrew WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
I'm going to go with Jeff on this one... there has been multiple threads on this topic... I think it has been beat to death. If you want to talk about it offlist I'd be happy to. As far as the price difference... I'd be happy to quote the Dragonwave and let you compare it to the published Trango deals... but my personal opinion is that you are not paying a premium for the Dragonwave name... compared to what I would consider the benefits. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Ehman Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link All, When comparing exactly apples to apples, there is about a 10-20% premium for a Dragonwave product. There are plenty of threads on this topic. I would be happy to grab a bunch for you so hit me off off-list. It really depends on your application for which product you would like to go with. I would be more than happy to walk you through everything. I try to refrain from stating opinions in a public forum. -Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:36 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link Hello Daniel, Can you elaborate in what way the Dragonwave performance is much better? Do you have a comparison chart you can share with us explaining how a Dragonwave stacks up against competing products. Namely Trango in this case. Exactly how close is close when you mention pricing between the two products? Close is a relative term don't you agree? So, are we talking $5, $50, $500, $5000? Look forward to your responses. Thank you, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:25 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link Well... I'd be happy to quote you a Dragonwave link... I think you will be surprised how close it comes to the Trango pricing... and I think the performance is much better (I don't want to rehash that whole thread). We also will take care of all of the licensing work for you. Hit me offlist if you like. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Niemantsverdriet Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link I am looking for a good place to get an 18ghz link, where do you guys suggest. Ideally the company would also procure the licence for us. I am thinking I want the Trango APEX because of it cost / performance. So if anybody has suggestions on a good company to use I am all ears! Thanks, _ /-\ ndrew --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone at 630-344-1586. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe
Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
Brad, Go back through the list achieves... I think I have made my stance on why Dragonwave is better in my opinion than Trango. I've installed nine Trango Giga links... so my opinion is based on my own personal experience... not just the Dragonwave marketing material. I didn't repost these comments because many got tired of the whole Dragonwave/Trango battle on the list. I sent this to someone earlier though... I could come up with more reasons if you wish... or just go back through the achieves. - Volume of product sold - Dragonwave sold $50 million dollars worth of equipment last year... by all reports Trango sold only 100 links or so. It is not unreasonable to think that Trango may not last in the market, especially with them ditching their point to multi-point product. - Dragonwave 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 24GHz, and 38GHz is all available now. - Lower power consumption - Field Proven - Firmware releases are stable... Trango has only been in the field for about a year now, and firmware by many accounts is still buggy. - CLI/GUI - Trango GUI is not useable, all commands must come from the CLI. Often these commands are confusing to use. Dragonwave can be configured either way easily. - LED Alignment/Voltmeter Alignment - LED Alignment on Trango gear is not as accurate as voltmeter on Dragonwave... can make aligning difficult links that much harder (since you only have two digits vs. four). From my own personal experience on this one. - Better link margins when using the High Power product - Trango 18GHz equipment does not cover the full band... I can dig up the e-mail I sent to the list about this. - Dragonwave does not have a waveguide adapter between the dish and the ODU... this caused a few problems on the massive Trango deployment I did (9 links) The price difference is in the sub-$1k range. I don't quote pricing on the list unless it is an advertised special. If you want a quote... hit me offlist. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:06 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link Hello Daniel, Well, that is disappointing as I was hoping for more substance from you to back up your statements regarding close in price and performance much better. Instead you've chosen to throw a stone at a competing product and run the other way. I guess we'll have to chalk up your comments as all show and no go... Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:49 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link I'm going to go with Jeff on this one... there has been multiple threads on this topic... I think it has been beat to death. If you want to talk about it offlist I'd be happy to. As far as the price difference... I'd be happy to quote the Dragonwave and let you compare it to the published Trango deals... but my personal opinion is that you are not paying a premium for the Dragonwave name... compared to what I would consider the benefits. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Ehman Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link All, When comparing exactly apples to apples, there is about a 10-20% premium for a Dragonwave product. There are plenty of threads on this topic. I would be happy to grab a bunch for you so hit me off off-list. It really depends on your application for which product you would like to go with. I would be more than happy to walk you through everything. I try to refrain from stating opinions in a public forum. -Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:36 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link Hello Daniel, Can you elaborate in what way the Dragonwave performance is much better? Do you have a comparison chart you can share with us explaining how a Dragonwave stacks up against competing products. Namely Trango in this case. Exactly how close is close when you mention pricing between the two products? Close is a relative term don't you agree? So, are we talking $5, $50, $500, $5000? Look forward to your responses. Thank you, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:25 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link Well... I'd be happy to quote you a Dragonwave link... I think you will be surprised how close it comes to the Trango pricing
Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
I have to run out into the field to work on a Bridgewave link (people pay good money for that :-). I'll answer this tonight. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link Hi, I have a better idea someone compile a simple side-by-side comparison of the Dragonwave vs. Trango 18ghz radios. List all the benefits of each radio, and then also list the current price for a comparable speed for each. I'm not familiar with the current Dragonwave product, so I will only list the benefits of the Trango APEX system (of which I currently have 3 running as our main backbone backhauls): (1) Radio mounted signal display for alignment (2) Optional fiber port (only have to buy the fiber module to plug in) (3) Various channel sizes (10, 20, 28, 40, 50, 80 mhz wide) (4) up to +20db power output (5) Jumbo packets via GigE (6) PoE (-48v) (7) In-band or out-of-band management (8) Separate GigE port for management (9) Rapid Port Shutdown (10) 1+1 redundancy (using a single antenna) (11) Dual power supplies (either PoE port can supply the power) (12) 2 year warranty standard (can be upgraded to 3 year, overnight replacement for $2,000 per link) (13) Price (currently $9,995 with 2ft dishes and frequency coordination. FCC fees are about $1,300 extra). Travis Microserv 3-dB Networks wrote: I'm going to go with Jeff on this one... there has been multiple threads on this topic... I think it has been beat to death. If you want to talk about it offlist I'd be happy to. As far as the price difference... I'd be happy to quote the Dragonwave and let you compare it to the published Trango deals... but my personal opinion is that you are not paying a premium for the Dragonwave name... compared to what I would consider the benefits. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Ehman Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link All, When comparing exactly apples to apples, there is about a 10-20% premium for a Dragonwave product. There are plenty of threads on this topic. I would be happy to grab a bunch for you so hit me off off-list. It really depends on your application for which product you would like to go with. I would be more than happy to walk you through everything. I try to refrain from stating opinions in a public forum. -Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:36 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link Hello Daniel, Can you elaborate in what way the Dragonwave performance is much better? Do you have a comparison chart you can share with us explaining how a Dragonwave stacks up against competing products. Namely Trango in this case. Exactly how close is close when you mention pricing between the two products? Close is a relative term don't you agree? So, are we talking $5, $50, $500, $5000? Look forward to your responses. Thank you, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:25 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link Well... I'd be happy to quote you a Dragonwave link... I think you will be surprised how close it comes to the Trango pricing... and I think the performance is much better (I don't want to rehash that whole thread). We also will take care of all of the licensing work for you. Hit me offlist if you like. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Niemantsverdriet Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link I am looking for a good place to get an 18ghz link, where do you guys suggest. Ideally the company would also procure the licence for us. I am thinking I want the Trango APEX because of it cost / performance. So if anybody has suggestions on a good company to use I am all ears! Thanks, _ /-\ ndrew --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
Brad, I'm not a WISP'er anymore... sales manager over here at 3-dB. I still get out though and install gear for people... :-) I am out of the office more though than I care to be... too many jobs stacking up! Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:07 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link Hmmm...sure sounds like you have an inordinate amount of service work on your linksgrin I'm working on a response to your other post with a line item side by side comparison between Dragonwave and Trango, but it will probably be tomorrow before it's posted. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:43 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link I have to run out into the field to work on a Bridgewave link (people pay good money for that :-). I'll answer this tonight. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link Hi, I have a better idea someone compile a simple side-by-side comparison of the Dragonwave vs. Trango 18ghz radios. List all the benefits of each radio, and then also list the current price for a comparable speed for each. I'm not familiar with the current Dragonwave product, so I will only list the benefits of the Trango APEX system (of which I currently have 3 running as our main backbone backhauls): (1) Radio mounted signal display for alignment (2) Optional fiber port (only have to buy the fiber module to plug in) (3) Various channel sizes (10, 20, 28, 40, 50, 80 mhz wide) (4) up to +20db power output (5) Jumbo packets via GigE (6) PoE (-48v) (7) In-band or out-of-band management (8) Separate GigE port for management (9) Rapid Port Shutdown (10) 1+1 redundancy (using a single antenna) (11) Dual power supplies (either PoE port can supply the power) (12) 2 year warranty standard (can be upgraded to 3 year, overnight replacement for $2,000 per link) (13) Price (currently $9,995 with 2ft dishes and frequency coordination. FCC fees are about $1,300 extra). Travis Microserv 3-dB Networks wrote: I'm going to go with Jeff on this one... there has been multiple threads on this topic... I think it has been beat to death. If you want to talk about it offlist I'd be happy to. As far as the price difference... I'd be happy to quote the Dragonwave and let you compare it to the published Trango deals... but my personal opinion is that you are not paying a premium for the Dragonwave name... compared to what I would consider the benefits. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Ehman Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link All, When comparing exactly apples to apples, there is about a 10-20% premium for a Dragonwave product. There are plenty of threads on this topic. I would be happy to grab a bunch for you so hit me off off-list. It really depends on your application for which product you would like to go with. I would be more than happy to walk you through everything. I try to refrain from stating opinions in a public forum. -Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:36 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link Hello Daniel, Can you elaborate in what way the Dragonwave performance is much better? Do you have a comparison chart you can share with us explaining how a Dragonwave stacks up against competing products. Namely Trango in this case. Exactly how close is close when you mention pricing between the two products? Close is a relative term don't you agree? So, are we talking $5, $50, $500, $5000? Look forward to your responses. Thank you, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:25 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link Well... I'd be happy to quote you a Dragonwave link... I think you will be surprised how close it comes to the Trango pricing... and I think the performance is much better (I don't want to rehash that whole thread). We also will take care of all of the licensing work for you. Hit me offlist if you like. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
Comments inline Before anyone reads further... I have the upmost respect for John... and I honestly believe Trango has done many things right over the years. I'll also be the first one to say that the Trango PTP products will work... but to me the price difference isn't enough to switch to Trango. I'd also like to point out... I only defend Dragonwave because I think it is the best product on the market from my personal experience. I've installed Trango, Dragonwave, Harris, Ceragon, and PCOM gear... and have had the best experiences with Dragonwave. I only preach what I know works, from my own personal experience. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of John Seaman Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link Just to clear up a few points... Daniel's claim of number of Trango's units shipped is WAY off. He has no way of knowing what we have shipped. Trango is a private company and as such we dont divulge specifics, but I can tell you that the actual shipments are FAR greater and a very significant portion of the links shipped have gone outside the US and as such you wont see them show up in the FCC database. Trango being a private company is the number one reason people don't know what is going on over there John. You can claim your profitable all day long and selling thousands of links... but saying most of them have shipped overseas doesn't help anything. So what we can do is look at the FCC database... and if you do that anyone can clearly see there isn't too much of the stuff out there. Our overall numbers of links shipped may be small compared to Ceragon and the big guys but the product has gained widespread acceptance, traction and is quickly gaining momentum. Why else would our competitors be acting so nervous? Are they really? Yes Dragonwave is becoming more competitive in their pricing... but other than that I haven't seen moves by any other vendor that shows nervousness. Personally I've heard more trepidation over Motorola entering the market. On a side note... I just got a lot of the pre-release documents on their product line... man does it look promising... and surprisingly at a reasonable price point (meaning in the same space as Dragonwave/Trango... of course who knows until the final pricing is announced) Trango has firmly established itself with TrangoLINK-GIGA and APEX in the WISP market. But that is a very very limited market... Now we are also gaining excellent traction with counties, states, cities, utilities, as well as the US Military... These entities traditionally deploylargest quantities of wireless backhaul sytems, compared to mobile operators who deploy by far the most. (although most mobile operator deployments are still strictly TDM). I'd love to hear some case studies and whitepapers... I do know of one local city that purchased a few... so I'm not saying your wrong... but I'd for one like to hear more. BTW... I'd argue the point that most mobile operators are strictly TDM... many are doing Psudeowire solutions now. There is no stopping Trango. Not to be a smart ass here... but is that way happened with the OFDM PTMP product line? I think it's interesting that the bread and butter portion of the business is bleeding like crazy... I'm seeing WISP after WISP ditch their Trango gear for Motorola/Mikrotik/3.65... can the PTP business sustain Trango? We will continue to peck away at Dragonwave's marketshare and gradually we'll be taking larger and larger portions of it. Not going to argue the fact that you have taken some of Dragonwave's market share... but the latest numbers I have seen still put Dragonwave leaps and bounds ahead of anyone else. Dragonwave did not ship $50mil last year, it was closer to $40Mil - and by the way they are losing tons of money quarter-after-quarter. Trango is, and has always been profitable. Well you can read Dragonwave's latest financial statement here... http://www.dragonwaveinc.com/docs/corporate/DragonWave_Financial%20Statement s_Nov30%202008.pdf So it does say gross sales was at 30 million CDN for three quarters... Dragonwave operates on a weird year end. Anyways I used the 50 mil from what I was told off the cuff by a Dragonwave rep... anyways its probably fair to say it is somewhere between 40 and 50 mil... I can't do that for Trango... so how does anyone know how profitable you guys are? I'd also argue that Dragonwave appears to be spending money investing in the company... and unlike Trango... I haven't heard of them laying off batches of employees. Anyways they gotta be doing something right... and I don't think anyone is questioning they will be around 5 years from now... yet many (not just me) have doubts about Trango... I actually don't have a side-by side comparison of the two products handy. We
Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
Sure... at the end of the day I guess that is all I care about too. But if your ODU fails in two years... and the company you purchased it from no longer exists... your kinda screwed aren't you? Long term support should always be taken into consideration. For instance... look at Motorola/Orthogon. They end of lifed the PtP 400... but are going to support it with firmware releases, etc. for another five years. I don't think anyone doubts that it is going to happen either. I'm not saying Trango is about to go under... ultimately there is no way to really know since they are a private company. I personally have concerns about the company though... and it is something you should consider before you buy the gear. Obviously though... not everyone shares this view. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:38 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link From what I gather in this post my synopsis is as follows. Both Dragonwave and Trango are fine ptp products with small differences. Both companies have problems either financially or historically. I think the geeks in us care about the products and the operation managers in us care about the business. As was said there is no wrong choice. Is this a correct statement or am I wrong and where? On 2/12/09, Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com wrote: Dragonwave did not ship $50mil last year, it was closer to $40Mil - and by the way they are losing tons of money quarter-after-quarter. Trango is, and has always been profitable. Well you can read Dragonwave's latest financial statement here... http://www.dragonwaveinc.com/docs/corporate/DragonWave_Financial%20Sta tement s_Nov30%202008.pdf So it does say gross sales was at 30 million CDN for three quarters... Dragonwave operates on a weird year end. Anyways I used the 50 mil from what I was told off the cuff by a Dragonwave rep... anyways its probably fair to say it is somewhere between 40 and 50 mil... Sales mean nothing -- the true test of a company's health and viability is profitability (net income) and cash flow The numbers you referenced show that Dragonwave loss $3.8 million and burned $8.7 million in cash in the last 9 months ended November 2008 It shows them having $10 million in cash, $10 million in AR and $14 million in short term investments Reading Dragonwave's financials, while it's not a disaster, paints the picture of a start-up company that's trying to get over the hump So...assuming a soft economy...where performance is similar to where they are now, and from a simplistic perspective, assuming they can collect all their AR liquidate all their investments at market value, Dragonwave has ~3 years before they have to turn profitable, sell or raise more money -Charles This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone at 630-344-1586. -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
I'm worried that my tower gets hit by lightning... and the company has gone bankrupt so I have to buy a complete new link instead of just one ODU. That's a major cost... and I don't think there is going to be major improvements in the licensed world in the next few years... so I'd bet I'll be pretty happy with what I have installed. Also... what happens to those warranties if the company goes bankrupt? What if a firmware bug comes up... if the company does not exist they can't fix it. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link My personal opinion regarding point-to-point links is that it boils down solely to price technical specifications When talking about Point-to-Point links (as opposed to a Point-to- Multipoint system) -- company sustainability / support (be it Dragonwave vs. Trango) isn't really that crucial, given that (1) most WISPs should know how to setup and configure their own radios and (2) most point-to- point links sit as a self-contained system To illustrate 1. How much support is really needed on a point-to-point link -- if by now, you can't figure out how to install one of these links with at the most some basic phone support, then you may need to rethink whether or not you should be in the WISP business =) That said...after an initial learning curve, and assuming that radios are properly installed (e.g., grounded, etc) -- point-to-points are generally forgotten about in the network So, say you buy a point-to-point Trango or Dragonwave backhaul -- you install it...works fine -- 36 months later Trango or Dragonwave goes completely bankrupt Who cares? For your next link...go buy a Trango/Dragonwave/Ceragon/Harris/Nera/whatever -- the installed link will continue to work -- and by then, you'll be looking to upgrade your backhauls anyways -Charles -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:38 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link From what I gather in this post my synopsis is as follows. Both Dragonwave and Trango are fine ptp products with small differences. Both companies have problems either financially or historically. I think the geeks in us care about the products and the operation managers in us care about the business. As was said there is no wrong choice. Is this a correct statement or am I wrong and where? On 2/12/09, Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com wrote: Dragonwave did not ship $50mil last year, it was closer to $40Mil - and by the way they are losing tons of money quarter-after-quarter. Trango is, and has always been profitable. Well you can read Dragonwave's latest financial statement here... http://www.dragonwaveinc.com/docs/corporate/DragonWave_Financial%20Sta tement s_Nov30%202008.pdf So it does say gross sales was at 30 million CDN for three quarters... Dragonwave operates on a weird year end. Anyways I used the 50 mil from what I was told off the cuff by a Dragonwave rep... anyways its probably fair to say it is somewhere between 40 and 50 mil... Sales mean nothing -- the true test of a company's health and viability is profitability (net income) and cash flow The numbers you referenced show that Dragonwave loss $3.8 million and burned $8.7 million in cash in the last 9 months ended November 2008 It shows them having $10 million in cash, $10 million in AR and $14 million in short term investments Reading Dragonwave's financials, while it's not a disaster, paints the picture of a start-up company that's trying to get over the hump So...assuming a soft economy...where performance is similar to where they are now, and from a simplistic perspective, assuming they can collect all their AR liquidate all their investments at market value, Dragonwave has ~3 years before they have to turn profitable, sell or raise more money -Charles This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone at 630-344-1586. -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List
Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
But not FCC Fees or power supplies :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link For one of our busy sites right now, we have two 5ghz links to it in order to have good speed, as one wasn't enough (and the redundancy was a good byproduct). I would love a few cost effective 2 mile links that don't need licensing, doesn't use 5ghz and can do 200mbps actual data or faster. If 24ghz can do that, we'd take it. Define cost effective? You can do 100 mb full duplex RIGHT NOW for under $10k -- includes radios, antennas, licensing services -Charles This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone at 630-344-1586. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link
I'd hazard a guess you should be okay... Only way to tell is to do the RF Study and find out :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:15 PM To: WISPA General List Cc: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link Charles, Thanks for the prompt response , I was thinking more on availability. Say I'm on a crowded area, what would be the chances of not getting the license? Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Feb 12, 2009, at 2:24 PM, Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com wrote: Unfortunately, it's the same as getting a new license...the only difference comes in application fees If it's a BRAND NEW tower with nothing -- you pay the FCC $640 / site for a new application If it's a MODIFICATION to an existing tower with a license -- you pay the FCC $240 / site for a major modification -Charles -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:42 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link On this subject Charles, others: Whats the process of making a change to an existing license? Let say I wish to move to one tower 1/4 mile away? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of jp Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:39 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link We are facing two simultaneous issues at some of our sites. I'm sure we're not the only ones with such dilemas. 1. We've run out of 5.8ghz spectrum. This can be addressed by changing to 5.4ghz or 3.65ghz for some of the shorter backhauls. 2. The normal 5ghz upto-45mbps stuff isn't fast enough for some of our links in the near future. Faster 5ghz stuff uses more spectrum; see dilema 1. On the low end, to conserve 5.8 spectrum, we've taken out some BA-II 2.4ghz stuff to clean up our spectrum and done 2.4ghz G links on 10mhz to low end longer distance links such as MT crossroads horizontally polarized. On the middle of the scale, we've upgraded some b14/b28 gear to Trangolink45 to get more speed out of existing links and spectrum. On the high end, there are some shorter distance 5.8ghz links we could replace with 5.4, but that sort of investment would only accomplish one of the goals, which is to preserve 5.8 spectrum. That investment would not increase our speed at all. If I'm going to replace those links with an upgrade, it should be substantially faster, and a 24ghz unlicensed link could accomplish that in many cases. I'm in a rural area, so I'm not really worried about interference of 24ghz (or any frequency used strictly for ptp). We do have other wisps using 5.8,2.4,900, and cell and phone companies doing 5.8 backhauls to contend with. Most of the interference is from ptmp gear of my own and others, and some from colocated backhaul gear of the other mentioned sources. 24ghz should be really easy to avoid interference if used strictly for ptp links. For one of our busy sites right now, we have two 5ghz links to it in order to have good speed, as one wasn't enough (and the redundancy was a good byproduct). I would love a few cost effective 2 mile links that don't need licensing, doesn't use 5ghz and can do 200mbps actual data or faster. If 24ghz can do that, we'd take it. On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 01:21:11PM -0800, John Seaman wrote: Thanks Tom, we're not convinced about 24 GHz... the power limits are very low. We are looking at it but we're trying to size up the 24 GHz market before we make the commitment to pursue this frequency. I do know that in Canada there is good demnand for 24 GHz (since licensing fees are extremely high) .. but here is the US, the licensing costs are so low that most users prefer to go with licensed band.. at least that has been our perception of the market so far. I would like to hear others view points on 24 GHz. John -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link The only reason we don't attach it here in the factory is to enable the user the option to use a waveguide adapter (instead of the transition) in the event they want to connect the ODU to piece of flex waveguide so that it can be used with any dish with a waveguide flange. Good feature for those who want to upgrade pre-existing installed slower DS-3 type radios with new state of the art IP, using already installed dish. As someone who has now used both the Trango
Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Ruckus now has a full outdoor radio that would work great for this... easy to manage and setup. But the cost will probably kill your budget (I think the full outdoor units cost around $1k or so... haven't seen the price on them yet). The controller would add some cost too. But it would be a high quality system. You could probably also pick up some Tropos boxes relatively cheap. Managing/setting up the system might be more effort than you want to give it. Just remember... you don't want to mesh more than three nodes :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for kicks. Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have some fun. I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free. Was hoping there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT). Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be cool. How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on those that could mesh? Very new to mesh - thanks in advance. `S PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT. (: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DVR camera system
Might want to check out Inscape... all IP based... DVR software is free for that few cameras. Hit me offlist if you need a quote, spec sheets, etc. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of ad...@svic.net Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 11:15 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] DVR camera system Figured I would ask if anyone has any experience with different camera systems. Have a customer looking to put multiple systems in and need a solution. Anyone know of some good systems that do not use a lot of bandwidth overhead? The systems need to have up to 8 camera hook up to DVR and be able to be internet accessible. Mike Johns SVIC Internet Computers 114 N Main st. Chiefland, Fl 32626 Phone: 352-490-5433 Fax: 352-490-9532 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Dual-band Sector Antennas/Multiple Input Sector Antennas
I'm helping someone design an antenna system to utilize the MIMO properties in 802.11n outdoors. The Cisco box he wants to connect to has three 5GHz and three 2.4GHz outputs. I'd rather avoid deploying six sector antennas (only need to cover about 120 degrees. so I figured three 90degree sectors ought to do it) so would like recommendations on : - Good dual-band 2.4GHz/5GHz antenna - Good Sector antenna that has multiple inputs on the same band, same polarity (not sure if such a beast exists, but doesn't hurt asking!). V-pol is preferred, as the clients will have V-pol omnis. Any help is really appreciated. Thanks! Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dual-band Sector Antennas/Multiple Input Sector Antennas
Right... N relies on MIMO... so antenna diversity is important. In an indoor application this AP would have six small Omni antennas on it... just inches apart from each other. I don't think the exact placement of the antennas is important, as long as the patterns overlap. I've never seen anything specifying the distances of antennas... but if someone knows that would be great. Either way, a dual-band antenna would cut it from six sectors to three... and not lose any of the benefits. Might not be cost effective, but I want to explore that. I'd also hope that there would be an antenna out there that already has the antenna diversity setup inside the antenna by having three elements pointing the correct directions. I wouldn't think noise would be that big of an issue at the antenna since they will all be broadcasting on the same frequency anyways. As for what he is trying to accomplish... I wish I knew. His application does not require 802.11n speeds, it could require the MIMO near and non-los properties... I think he wants 802.11n because it's the next thing. Just like I don't think he should be using Cisco... but no IT guy has ever been fired for deploying Cisco right :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 8:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual-band Sector Antennas/Multiple Input Sector Antennas I think the whole idea behind N is antenna diversity Daniel. Using less antennas means he'll get little or no benefit from the system. Might as well just run with a standard b/g system. I think antenna placement will also be critical for n. I could be totally wrong here, but my guess is that there are specific distances between antennas that are part of the magic of n. What's he hoping to accomplish? Better NLOS, better nLOS, better speed? laters, marlon - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 6:43 AM Subject: [WISPA] Dual-band Sector Antennas/Multiple Input Sector Antennas I'm helping someone design an antenna system to utilize the MIMO properties in 802.11n outdoors. The Cisco box he wants to connect to has three 5GHz and three 2.4GHz outputs. I'd rather avoid deploying six sector antennas (only need to cover about 120 degrees. so I figured three 90degree sectors ought to do it) so would like recommendations on : - Good dual-band 2.4GHz/5GHz antenna - Good Sector antenna that has multiple inputs on the same band, same polarity (not sure if such a beast exists, but doesn't hurt asking!). V-pol is preferred, as the clients will have V-pol omnis. Any help is really appreciated. Thanks! Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] first whitespaces 802.11 card?
On that page it says the card is for meter reading. I don't think it has anything to do with TV Whitespaces Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] first whitespaces 802.11 card? The google map that Brian Webster made had channels 20 - 52 on it. So, is 1-8 whitespaces? And how do I find out if I can use it in my area. I'd love to get my hands on one of those cards and start testing, it I would be able to use it in my area. Brian Rohrbacher Mike Hammett wrote: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.pdf I'm not sure what exactly this card's target is. It would cover channels 8 - 13, but then also a bunch of 2-way and other services. There must be an international band that covers 180 - 280. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Randy Cosby mailto:dco...@infowest.com dco...@infowest.com Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 2:28 PM To: mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] first whitespaces 802.11 card? http://www.ubnt.com/products/xr1.php -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc work: 435-773-6071 email: rco...@infowest.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] LinkedIn
Make sure to join the WISPA group http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=148770 Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of John Thomas Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] LinkedIn Is anyone around here on LinkedIn? I just got signed up a few days ago, and it may have benefits for your businesses. It works a little bit like Facebook, but is much more business oriented. John WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 ptp
Redline and Ligowave both have gear available. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:29 AM To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 ptp Anyone using 3.65 for ptp? What is available? Can ubiquiti's cards be used in mikrotik? brian WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
For 3.65 I'd say you need to look at Aperto and Redline... they seem to be the market leaders. My preference is for Aperto though (and not just because we resell it :-) The only Mobile 4.9GHz systems that I know of are Mesh based. Motorola's MotoMesh with the MEA architecture is probably what your looking for (I'm assuming Police/Fire). You could probably also create something with the new PTMP 4.9GHz gear from Moto... but it's not going to be turnkey by any stretch of the imagination. There isn't that many players in 4.9GHz outside of Point to Point... and I think Moto probably is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition in that space (since they already own the two way business its an easy sell to by the 4.9GHz gear from Moto too). If you want more information... feel free to contact me offlist Marlon (dan...@3-db.net) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture (developed for the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car to be traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work. Plus to modems you install in the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can connect to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can mesh through another car to work. I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a homebrew solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete turnkey package available (not that any of it is cheap!) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers. This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower - the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers. Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
Are you doing this with mobility though? How are you doing the car installations? What about LOS issues considering the low power of 4.9GHz? Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 The way we have it set up is that each agency - city, county fire, sheriff has it's own SSID on the radio that is assigned to a unique VLAN. The radio handles the VLAN tagging and forwards it either out the Ethernet port or the backhaul radio (if it's a dual radio). We have 11 SSID/VLAN combinations running across the network and it works fine. I am not administering the MobileIP so I would not be the best person to help you with that. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers. This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower - the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers. Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
I can only quote the MotoMesh Duo today... MotoMesh Solo though is probably more along the lines of what you want... either way your not going to like the price if your trying to do it on the cheap. The sell to a city or county though should work though with more expensive gear because they can get grants, etc. for public safety. 4.9GHz to the car though is going to be hard to do without a Mesh system... and Mesh is costly. I'd hate to be the one to sell a homebrew 4.9GHz system to a government agency and have it not perform as advertised. You also need to be careful... 4.9GHz is part 90 not part-15 so FCC compliance should be high on your list. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Hmmm, can you price a system like this out? I'll need per tower and per node prices. Out here we'll probably be better off with a less expensive homebrew system due to long term costs though marlon - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture (developed for the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car to be traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work. Plus to modems you install in the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can connect to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can mesh through another car to work. I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a homebrew solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete turnkey package available (not that any of it is cheap!) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers. This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower - the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers. Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile network). Do I have to create something from scratch? thanks! marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly cheaper... PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it... but that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to find for this kind of bandwidth. Travis Microserv Ryan Ghering wrote: I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is preferred as this is a low budget hop. Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this capacity? Thanks Ryan -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
I'd just hate to be the guy deploying a 4.9GHz homebrew system that the police/fire come to depend on and have it fail on me and someone die because of it. Systems like these should cost a lot of money to be built very well. The FCC would really be the last person I would be concerned about. it's the wrath of the city when a mission critical system like this fails. I've heard a lot of stories from Motorola two-way guys how they could go into meetings and cities would buy their two-way gear and pay the extra price because no one wants to take chances with people's lives. Help the city find the grant money to purchase a system like Moto's. and your going to be the hero big time. Take it one step farther and do a Motomesh Quatro deployment. have grant money pay for the gear. and use the 2.4GHz Wi-Fi coverage you now have to sell service. Since the gear is paid for your ROI is in a much better situation than the average muni-wifi project. Or take it one step further and get the water department to use it for meter reading, etc. At the end of the day money isn't an issue really for something like this. its just about getting the right people together and FINDING the money for it. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 3:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Good point Daniel. Anyone doing 4.9 GHz homebrew would likely lose their business when the FCC came knocking along with the Police Department that was sold the illegal system by the WISP. OUCH!! 3-dB Networks wrote: I can only quote the MotoMesh Duo today... MotoMesh Solo though is probably more along the lines of what you want... either way your not going to like the price if your trying to do it on the cheap. The sell to a city or county though should work though with more expensive gear because they can get grants, etc. for public safety. 4.9GHz to the car though is going to be hard to do without a Mesh system... and Mesh is costly. I'd hate to be the one to sell a homebrew 4.9GHz system to a government agency and have it not perform as advertised. You also need to be careful... 4.9GHz is part 90 not part-15 so FCC compliance should be high on your list. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Hmmm, can you price a system like this out? I'll need per tower and per node prices. Out here we'll probably be better off with a less expensive homebrew system due to long term costs though marlon - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture (developed for the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car to be traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work. Plus to modems you install in the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can connect to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can mesh through another car to work. I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a homebrew solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete turnkey package available (not that any of it is cheap!) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson mailto:jrichard...@aircloud.com jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why
Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
Ryan, The new RAD RW2000 will do that... hit me offlist for a quote Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Ghering Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:39 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed ok after talking with the client they have informed me that they only NEED 40 to 50 meg full duplex. and they are very price conscious as well. I was informed late today that I get the bid for this project if I can do it for under 5 grand. So with labor and a small bit of profit, I'm not sure I can make it happen do the unlicensed products like microtik or staros meet these specs. I see that microtik has a unit they say can do 60 to 80 meg. but whats the real bandwidth like and does anyone have experiance with them? Ryan On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:43 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Why would you go unlicensed if you can go licensed for slightly more? -RickG On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:34 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly cheaper... PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it... but that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to find for this kind of bandwidth. Travis Microserv Ryan Ghering wrote: I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is preferred as this is a low budget hop. Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this capacity? Thanks Ryan - - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
The RadWin radio will do it in one 20MHz channel (one V-pol and one H-pol).. Plus it's a full solution. no build it yourself. But you can't beat the price of Mikrotik Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed The Mikrotik solution can be done... but you will need a lot of clean spectrum to make it happen. At only a mile, you could use an RB433AH with a couple SR5 cards on each side. There is even an integrated antenna that will hold all of this, and provide vertical and horizontal antennas in the same enclosure (http://www.titanwirelessonline.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AT-19DP-5 8-R2) 2 x RB433AH 4 x SR5 cards 2 x dual pol antenna enclosures with pigtails I would estimate total cost of parts to be less than $800. A couple hours to build, test and configure and you should be good to go. The only real challenge will be finding two open 40mhz wide channels. However, I would think that could be done in the 5.3ghz and 5.4ghz bands without a problem. Travis Microserv Ryan Ghering wrote: ok after talking with the client they have informed me that they only NEED 40 to 50 meg full duplex. and they are very price conscious as well. I was informed late today that I get the bid for this project if I can do it for under 5 grand. So with labor and a small bit of profit, I'm not sure I can make it happen do the unlicensed products like microtik or staros meet these specs. I see that microtik has a unit they say can do 60 to 80 meg. but whats the real bandwidth like and does anyone have experiance with them? Ryan On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:43 PM, RickG mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Why would you go unlicensed if you can go licensed for slightly more? -RickG On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:34 PM, 3-dB Networks mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net wrote: An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly cheaper... PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it... but that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to find for this kind of bandwidth. Travis Microserv Ryan Ghering wrote: I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is preferred as this is a low budget hop. Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this capacity? Thanks Ryan -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
Very true... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Yes, but the system doesn't have to fail before the WISP who supplies the homebrew 4.9 system gets blown out of the water. All one person would have to do is point out to the City that the equipment that they have been sold is uncertified and illegal to use per FCC rules. What Police Department IT guy (or Police Chief) is going to accept that and put his own career on the line just because some WISP didn't tell him the truth about the equipment that they sold the Police Department? 3-dB Networks wrote: I'd just hate to be the guy deploying a 4.9GHz homebrew system that the police/fire come to depend on and have it fail on me and someone die because of it. Systems like these should cost a lot of money to be built very well. The FCC would really be the last person I would be concerned about. it's the wrath of the city when a mission critical system like this fails. I've heard a lot of stories from Motorola two-way guys how they could go into meetings and cities would buy their two-way gear and pay the extra price because no one wants to take chances with people's lives. Help the city find the grant money to purchase a system like Moto's. and your going to be the hero big time. Take it one step farther and do a Motomesh Quatro deployment. have grant money pay for the gear. and use the 2.4GHz Wi- Fi coverage you now have to sell service. Since the gear is paid for your ROI is in a much better situation than the average muni-wifi project. Or take it one step further and get the water department to use it for meter reading, etc. At the end of the day money isn't an issue really for something like this. its just about getting the right people together and FINDING the money for it. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 3:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Good point Daniel. Anyone doing 4.9 GHz homebrew would likely lose their business when the FCC came knocking along with the Police Department that was sold the illegal system by the WISP. OUCH!! 3-dB Networks wrote: I can only quote the MotoMesh Duo today... MotoMesh Solo though is probably more along the lines of what you want... either way your not going to like the price if your trying to do it on the cheap. The sell to a city or county though should work though with more expensive gear because they can get grants, etc. for public safety. 4.9GHz to the car though is going to be hard to do without a Mesh system... and Mesh is costly. I'd hate to be the one to sell a homebrew 4.9GHz system to a government agency and have it not perform as advertised. You also need to be careful... 4.9GHz is part 90 not part-15 so FCC compliance should be high on your list. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Hmmm, can you price a system like this out? I'll need per tower and per node prices. Out here we'll probably be better off with a less expensive homebrew system due to long term costs though marlon - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks mailto:wi...@3-db.net wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture (developed for the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car to be traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work. Plus to modems you install in the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can connect to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can mesh through another car to work. I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a homebrew solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete turnkey package available (not that any of it is cheap!) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility
Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
I'd have to do research... I've never gone looking for them before. Many guys within Motorola can help though... hit me offlist and I can provide some contacts Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 8:27 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Do you know where to go after those grants that the county can get? thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 I can only quote the MotoMesh Duo today... MotoMesh Solo though is probably more along the lines of what you want... either way your not going to like the price if your trying to do it on the cheap. The sell to a city or county though should work though with more expensive gear because they can get grants, etc. for public safety. 4.9GHz to the car though is going to be hard to do without a Mesh system... and Mesh is costly. I'd hate to be the one to sell a homebrew 4.9GHz system to a government agency and have it not perform as advertised. You also need to be careful... 4.9GHz is part 90 not part-15 so FCC compliance should be high on your list. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Hmmm, can you price a system like this out? I'll need per tower and per node prices. Out here we'll probably be better off with a less expensive homebrew system due to long term costs though marlon - Original Message - From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture (developed for the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car to be traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work. Plus to modems you install in the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can connect to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can mesh through another car to work. I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a homebrew solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete turnkey package available (not that any of it is cheap!) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Got it. Thanks! Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip? The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or code 3 call. The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car. They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call. This would allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer on scene. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems that band would be outstanding for mobile use. Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers. This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower - the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers. Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9 OK, last one. What would you guys use for 3650 gear. I need to deliver very high speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability. Money matters, but it's not the driving force here. Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system. We'll have to roam across multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them. The idea is not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's. Is there a system that will facilitate
Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
Right... but the customer changed the specification to 50Mb FDX on him... so now it works :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 12:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed Won't it only do 50 meg FDX? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 11:49 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed Ryan, The new RAD RW2000 will do that... hit me offlist for a quote Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Ghering Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:39 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed ok after talking with the client they have informed me that they only NEED 40 to 50 meg full duplex. and they are very price conscious as well. I was informed late today that I get the bid for this project if I can do it for under 5 grand. So with labor and a small bit of profit, I'm not sure I can make it happen do the unlicensed products like microtik or staros meet these specs. I see that microtik has a unit they say can do 60 to 80 meg. but whats the real bandwidth like and does anyone have experiance with them? Ryan On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:43 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Why would you go unlicensed if you can go licensed for slightly more? -RickG On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:34 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly cheaper... PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it... but that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to find for this kind of bandwidth. Travis Microserv Ryan Ghering wrote: I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is preferred as this is a low budget hop. Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this capacity? Thanks Ryan --- -- - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- -- - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - -- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - -- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
Yes... any licensed solution is the next step (well the PtP 500 Full would be cheaper than the licensed stuff too... and it is a much better radio from an RF standpoint I think) A PtP 600 will do it... but it costs more than the Dragonwave/Trango/Cablefree/Nera links out there. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 1:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed oh, okay, then yes, it'll work. ;-) Anything faster than this radio and your best bet is a Trango or Dragonwave licensed product, correct? (I don't care about which is better, Trango or DragonWave.) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 2:20 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed Right... but the customer changed the specification to 50Mb FDX on him... so now it works :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 12:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed Won't it only do 50 meg FDX? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 11:49 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed Ryan, The new RAD RW2000 will do that... hit me offlist for a quote Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Ghering Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:39 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed ok after talking with the client they have informed me that they only NEED 40 to 50 meg full duplex. and they are very price conscious as well. I was informed late today that I get the bid for this project if I can do it for under 5 grand. So with labor and a small bit of profit, I'm not sure I can make it happen do the unlicensed products like microtik or staros meet these specs. I see that microtik has a unit they say can do 60 to 80 meg. but whats the real bandwidth like and does anyone have experiance with them? Ryan On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:43 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Why would you go unlicensed if you can go licensed for slightly more? -RickG On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:34 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly cheaper... PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it... but that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to find for this kind of bandwidth. Travis Microserv Ryan Ghering wrote: I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is preferred as this is a low budget hop. Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this capacity? Thanks Ryan - -- -- - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - -- -- - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- -- -- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- -- -- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
[WISPA] 900MHz Antennas - MTI vs. The Rest
Just curious what people think of MTI's 900MHz Sectors/Omni in 900MHz vs. Tiltek, Pac Wireless, and others. How do they stack up performance wise? Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Not at all... Tranzeo does put together the Aperto CPE's, but the guts are proprietary to Aperto. Tranzeo's CPE's has Tranzeo guts. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? I'm certainly interested in ptmp. The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Ligowave its ptp in 3.65... Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today. Take care leon Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I'm looking into this too. So far I can't find a solution for rural towers. A 3 sector install at $20k? Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that tower Anyone have any better ideas? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Fellow operators: Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP? Any updates on experiences with: Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan ??? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Because speed isn't everything. Mesa went head to head with Cable and DSL for a long time... offering packages of 7Mb this or that. Our highest package was 2.5Mb/1Mb. Yet we still did a very respectful job, because we offered the best customer service around, and people liked using a local company. I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home? I have a 15Mb Business Class Comcast connection at home... it burst to 30Mb. Yet it doesn't feel any faster than a 2Mb connection to me. Now if I'm downloading files... :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? 2 megs is yesterday's news. U-Verse is 18/1.5 FiOS is 50/20 Charter has 60/5 Comcast has 50/10 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k. Charter is 30 times faster than that. Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market. The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in wireless networking. Best Regards, Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX AP anyway... not enough bandwidth. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base station, that only supports 30 subscribers. - Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? I'm certainly interested in ptmp. The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Ligowave its ptp in 3.65... Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to the UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today. Take care leon Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I'm looking into this too. So far I can't find a solution for rural towers. A 3 sector install at $20k? Not to service the 20 people that will be able to even see that tower Anyone have any better ideas? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: Motorola Canopy User Group motor...@wispa.org; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Fellow operators: Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP? Any updates on experiences with: Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, Airspan ??? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Well... I did but I didn't. You can have as big of a pipe into the world that you want. Heck our office has 45Mb symmetrical. But my downloads here are no faster at home because of the limits on the servers your downloading from... and heck just the internet in general. There is a point where no matter how fast your internet connection is... it's not going to feel any faster. Your router will not have enough horsepower to handle it... or your computer won't. At the end of the day I think people demand service. I'm talking about say 90% of the users out there. Of course the 10% that know tech are going to want all of the speed they can get... but do we really need it? Anyways... it amazes me how many WISP's only offer 1Mb speed packages... their base one being 128Kb. But in their part of the country that is what works. Wireless in cities saturated with Cable/DSL is probably best left to businesses where your competing against T-1 lines and Fiber. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? 3-dB Networks wrote: I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home? Now if I'm downloading files.. :-) I think you just answered your own question. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Well the Canopy 430 series is going to do 42Mbps... but even then how well is that going to work... considering your clients are going to have to be within 2 miles. I don't think you should have a realistic expectation that wireless (in a point to multipoint environment) is going to match the next generation demand. You can pray and hope... but I think in many ways the laws of physics are going to prevent wireless from competing with DSL/Cable... and god forbid, FTTH. Anyways... as has also been mentioned on this list... I'd expect in 5 years most service providers are going to charge by usage... so stream that 5mb movie all you want for three hours... but you're going to pay me for it. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Others on the list have mentioned the exponential increase in video use. Those are multi megabit streams ran for hours on end. I believe someone reported that NetFlix peaked at 5 megabits. Why would I deploy gear that couldn't handle these next generation services? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:13 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Because speed isn't everything. Mesa went head to head with Cable and DSL for a long time... offering packages of 7Mb this or that. Our highest package was 2.5Mb/1Mb. Yet we still did a very respectful job, because we offered the best customer service around, and people liked using a local company. I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home? I have a 15Mb Business Class Comcast connection at home... it burst to 30Mb. Yet it doesn't feel any faster than a 2Mb connection to me. Now if I'm downloading files... :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? 2 megs is yesterday's news. U-Verse is 18/1.5 FiOS is 50/20 Charter has 60/5 Comcast has 50/10 2 megs is 36 times faster than 56k. Charter is 30 times faster than that. Why is the wireless world happy with being 10 years behind the wired world? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:42 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? We have customers worldwide who operate sectors typically with hundreds of residential clients with 2 Mbps downlink / 256 or 512 kbps uplink and some with who run entry level service (by NA standards) of 384 kbps downlink / 128 kbps uplink that have an average of 250 clients per sector with 6 sectors per BTS in an urban market. The WiMAX MAC is much more sophisticated than other MACs used in wireless networking. Best Regards, Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a WiMAX AP anyway... not enough bandwidth. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jeff Booher jefftho...@fastmail.fm Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base station, that only supports 30 subscribers. - Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? I'm certainly interested in ptmp. The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it? marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Ligowave its ptp in 3.65... Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff
Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ?
Mike, I absolutely see where you are coming from. Internet usage is changing, and to keep up with it you have to offer higher throughput... at least at the base station/AP... to have a reasonable oversubscription rate. At the same time though I don't see how a vendor can create that magic 100Mb PtMP wireless product. Sure you could bond 4 15MHz Channels on the Canopy 400 series and come close... but do you have 60MHz of available spectrum per AP? I think what has to happen is to change the business model if you're in a region where you have to compete head to head with Cable/DSL. I don't see the wonder product coming anytime soon... and even if vendor X said it was coming... it would probably come to late as people are going to demand more and more. What is at fault is the as much as you can eat style of providing bandwidth... once that changes and becomes acceptable the gear out there today will be able to meet the demand I think. But until the big boys clamp down hard on usage... it's hard for a WISP to compete if your clamping down and they are not. Anyways... I think the equipment manufacturers are going to continue to push themselves to deliver that next best product... because if they don't someone else will... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Yes, service. If you can't service their desire to watch NetFlix, they'll leave. I'm glad a few of you see where I'm coming from while the rest of you sit in awe. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:37 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? Well... I did but I didn't. You can have as big of a pipe into the world that you want. Heck our office has 45Mb symmetrical. But my downloads here are no faster at home because of the limits on the servers your downloading from... and heck just the internet in general. There is a point where no matter how fast your internet connection is... it's not going to feel any faster. Your router will not have enough horsepower to handle it... or your computer won't. At the end of the day I think people demand service. I'm talking about say 90% of the users out there. Of course the 10% that know tech are going to want all of the speed they can get... but do we really need it? Anyways... it amazes me how many WISP's only offer 1Mb speed packages... their base one being 128Kb. But in their part of the country that is what works. Wireless in cities saturated with Cable/DSL is probably best left to businesses where your competing against T-1 lines and Fiber. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? 3-dB Networks wrote: I would challenge... is why does anyone need more than 2Mb at home? Now if I'm downloading files.. :-) I think you just answered your own question. David Smith MVN.net -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail
Re: [WISPA] Diversity in Licensed Link
I know Dragonwave does in the Horizon Duo platform... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:52 AM To: WISPA General List; Motorola Canopy User Group Subject: [WISPA] Diversity in Licensed Link Lists, What Licensed Link Equipment support Spacial diversity? Trango? DW Horizon? I would assume Alcatel, Harris and Ceragon Do Im plannig a couple of long links over the ocean, altough I have plenty of height to overcome direct reflections on sea, I would like the added bennefit ... Or a Dual link solution would be better? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ccr.gov
Looks like the website isn't resolving... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] ccr.gov Hi All, This seems to be offline. Can ANYONE get to it? marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex
Radwin... Orthgon radios are not full duplex but can be setup for 1:1 so it's pretty close. What is the application, how much bandwidth do you have... and how much throughput do you need? Hit me offlist if you like Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Jenkins Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 12:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex Does anyone know of a 4.9 Radio that is PoE and Full Duplex? - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex
Yep... and considering how cheap the Radwin gear is I'm not sure why you would want to risk it with a homebrew setup anyways Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 2:17 PM To: lakel...@gbcx.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex Good try but I'm not going to bite on that one Bob. :) I expounded (pontificated?) last month on the wisdom of and the consequences of selling public safety agencies illegal (uncertified) 4.9 GHz systems. I'll leave it to someone else to explain it this time around. jack of the (wireless) jungle lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: I thought all bands required certified systems. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:18:58 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex
All of the RAD names are under the same brand. Airmux/Radmux is made by RAD... I don't know much about those though. We are focusing on the WL1000 and RW2000... both pretty cool radios. RAD as a whole was recently added to our vendor list :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 2:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex Does the Radwin have anything to do with the Radmux radios? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Jeff Broadwick jeffl...@comcast.netwrote: I had a fleeting mental image of you swinging from a vine in a Tarzan suit...thanks for that...I think... :-) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:17 PM To: lakel...@gbcx.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex Good try but I'm not going to bite on that one Bob. :) I expounded (pontificated?) last month on the wisdom of and the consequences of selling public safety agencies illegal (uncertified) 4.9 GHz systems. I'll leave it to someone else to explain it this time around. jack of the (wireless) jungle lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: I thought all bands required certified systems. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:18:58 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email jun...@ask-wi.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Ekahau Site Survey Tool
Has anyone used this? http://www.ekahau.com/index.php?id=4900 Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex
Exalt is a good choice... but like Ligowave and Redline would be half duplex. Just like Moto would be a good choice (I actually have a PtP 400 Full connectorized link on the shelf that I am dying to sell :-) The Radwin RW2000/WL1000 are the only 4.9GHz links that I know of that are Full Duplex As for the commercial over 4.9GHz... I seem to remember from a thread a long time ago that it was possible... but I don't recall any details. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Plexicomm Admin Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 11:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex Did you look at Exalt? Dan English Plexicomm - Internet Solutions d...@plexicomm.net | 1.866.759.4678 x103 Fax: 1.866.852.4688 | Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 - Original Message - From: Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex Ok I cannot find a decent 4.9 FD radio. Looks like Ligowave, Radwin, and Redline are the top choices. On the same line of thought what are the legalities for passing commercial data over a 4.9 link if its primary function is for Government data? - Matt Matt Jenkins wrote: Does anyone know of a 4.9 Radio that is PoE and Full Duplex? - Matt - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex
Radwin radios are designed for TDM transport... that is really the market they play towards... cellular carriers. Transport is fixed to full duplex... and designed with that in mind. But from an RF standpoint you would be right since it only transmits on one channel. The Radwin gear transmits in two 20MHz channels, one horizontal polarity and one vertical polarity... I don't see any reason to doubt their throughput numbers. But at the end of the day... if the customer wants to see a full duplex radio... only the Radwin one is marketed that way. My experience is most customers like this don't care how it actually works... as long as it does what they think they want. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 11:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex There is alot of confusion here. From a RF standpoint NONE of this equipment is full duplex. From an Ethernet Port standpoint I know the exalt gives me full duplex specs. I cannot answer for Motorola or the others. The biggest thing you should look for is support, asymetrical bandwidth capabilities, and REAL throughput data. I know for a fact that the data through the Exalt is 55 Mbps aggregate. So I can get 25/25 or an asymetrical part of that. No sales fluff on that number. The Motorola is rated at 43 Mbps. If you go my Radwin's spec sheet they do a remarkable 100 Mb over a 20 mhz. channel. That's either totall incredible or that's some real fluff! Ligowave says up to 40 Mb and they probably say that depending on channel size. But 40 mb is the max. I can't answer for Redline as I don't have a public safety spec sheet in front of me. As far as the customer is concerned you need to provide full duplex to his demarc. Do not get confused with what happens when it leaves that point. Bob 3-dB Networks wrote: Exalt is a good choice... but like Ligowave and Redline would be half duplex. Just like Moto would be a good choice (I actually have a PtP 400 Full connectorized link on the shelf that I am dying to sell :-) The Radwin RW2000/WL1000 are the only 4.9GHz links that I know of that are Full Duplex As for the commercial over 4.9GHz... I seem to remember from a thread a long time ago that it was possible... but I don't recall any details. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Plexicomm Admin Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 11:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex Did you look at Exalt? Dan English Plexicomm - Internet Solutions d...@plexicomm.net | 1.866.759.4678 x103 Fax: 1.866.852.4688 | Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 - Original Message - From: Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex Ok I cannot find a decent 4.9 FD radio. Looks like Ligowave, Radwin, and Redline are the top choices. On the same line of thought what are the legalities for passing commercial data over a 4.9 link if its primary function is for Government data? - Matt Matt Jenkins wrote: Does anyone know of a 4.9 Radio that is PoE and Full Duplex? - Matt --- -- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- -- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex
Yes it is MIMO. It operates in the same channel in Horizontal and Vertical... much like Orthogon et. al. Your right though... its sales fluff (which in this case though could be helpful sales fluff). Guess I got caught up in it without really thinking about that :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 12:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex The Exalt is also a TDM radio. I didn't see that Radwin was MIMO. Does it operate on the same channel or does horizontal and vertical need to be on separate channels? I agree that Radwin advertises full duplex but again that is either a mistake or sales fluff. All the equipment is TDD. And I agree that as long as the customer gets what he thinks he wants, that is the goal. -B- 3-dB Networks wrote: Radwin radios are designed for TDM transport... that is really the market they play towards... cellular carriers. Transport is fixed to full duplex... and designed with that in mind. But from an RF standpoint you would be right since it only transmits on one channel. The Radwin gear transmits in two 20MHz channels, one horizontal polarity and one vertical polarity... I don't see any reason to doubt their throughput numbers. But at the end of the day... if the customer wants to see a full duplex radio... only the Radwin one is marketed that way. My experience is most customers like this don't care how it actually works... as long as it does what they think they want. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 11:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex There is alot of confusion here. From a RF standpoint NONE of this equipment is full duplex. From an Ethernet Port standpoint I know the exalt gives me full duplex specs. I cannot answer for Motorola or the others. The biggest thing you should look for is support, asymetrical bandwidth capabilities, and REAL throughput data. I know for a fact that the data through the Exalt is 55 Mbps aggregate. So I can get 25/25 or an asymetrical part of that. No sales fluff on that number. The Motorola is rated at 43 Mbps. If you go my Radwin's spec sheet they do a remarkable 100 Mb over a 20 mhz. channel. That's either totall incredible or that's some real fluff! Ligowave says up to 40 Mb and they probably say that depending on channel size. But 40 mb is the max. I can't answer for Redline as I don't have a public safety spec sheet in front of me. As far as the customer is concerned you need to provide full duplex to his demarc. Do not get confused with what happens when it leaves that point. Bob 3-dB Networks wrote: Exalt is a good choice... but like Ligowave and Redline would be half duplex. Just like Moto would be a good choice (I actually have a PtP 400 Full connectorized link on the shelf that I am dying to sell :-) The Radwin RW2000/WL1000 are the only 4.9GHz links that I know of that are Full Duplex As for the commercial over 4.9GHz... I seem to remember from a thread a long time ago that it was possible... but I don't recall any details. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Plexicomm Admin Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 11:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex Did you look at Exalt? Dan English Plexicomm - Internet Solutions d...@plexicomm.net | 1.866.759.4678 x103 Fax: 1.866.852.4688 | Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 - Original Message - From: Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 4.9 Full Duplex Ok I cannot find a decent 4.9 FD radio. Looks like Ligowave, Radwin, and Redline are the top choices. On the same line of thought what are the legalities for passing commercial data over a 4.9 link if its primary function is for Government data? - Matt Matt Jenkins wrote: Does anyone know of a 4.9 Radio that is PoE and Full Duplex? - Matt - -- -- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - -- -- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- -- -- WISPA Wants You
Re: [WISPA] 24ghz links
Forget 30 to 60 days... if you don't get that narrow slice of 23GHz spectrum that has conditional approval it can take up to a year to get that license... no matter who you license the link through (technically most of 23GHz is reserved for government use... you get to use it but not on conditional approval... and we all know how fast the government works!) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 5:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24ghz links Unless is a temp link or you cant wait 30 - 60 days for freq coordination... Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 8:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24ghz links It's my understanding that 24 GHz is priced pretty close to 23 GHz (~$10-15k / link depending on antennas / configuration / etc) -- so unless you're in the Canada, I don't see why anyone wouldn't just pay the extra $2k to get a FCC license -Charles -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 6:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24ghz links Whats the price for this link? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 12:43 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24ghz links I am now. I learned that yesterday, after reading manual, and some list discussion on members list. Yes, the problem was I had the radios set to same polarity, and with 24Ghz one side needs to be vert and the other horizonal, because they send and receive on different pols. Thanks. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24ghz links Are you cross polarizing? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 5:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24ghz links Randy, 24Ghz is sometimes thought of as interference free, based on its approximate 1.5 degree beamwidth at 2ft, and about 2.6 degree beamwidth at 1ft dish. The dragonwave works on 40mhz channels and allows setting to one of two channels sets (A 24078500 tx and 24173829 rx, or B 124126170 tx 24221500 rx) And then you have polarity diversity. The antennas have about a -68 F/B ratio, so getting channel reuse at a tower is pretty doable. Currently there is not alot of noise out there, because there weren't a lot of products out there, and most people that were willing to spend the money for high end gear, were willing to buy 23Ghz licenses. But it doesn't mean its going to stay that way. For us it has worked pretty well. I will say... I've had a hard time getting one of my 24Ghz links Dragonwave links to reach target RSSI, I'm about 15db off. I think its a problem with one of the antennas, but I haven't figured it out yet. With 1-5db low power, its less forgiving on the link budget, if something is wrong to hurt the link budget. Rain fade is high. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 4:08 PM Subject: [WISPA] 24ghz links I'm considering a 24ghz link for a 3 mile shot. The path calcs all work fine for our use, climate, etc. I'm interested in hearing first from anyone who has used 24 gigahertz radios (dragonwave most likely). Have you had any interference issues? Any recommendations on what to check for besides the clear LOS before putting something like this up? How far should you be away from other 24gig towers? I thought I had read that the beam was so narrow, interference was quite rare, but wanted to hear some real life experiences. Thanks! -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc work: 435-773-6071 email: rco...@infowest.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Using Tranzeo as CPE for rural community
So are you looking to provide a muni Wi-Fi type setup? I have used and deployed a few hundred Tranzeo radios... they seem to play best with each other... there has been issues when mixing other clients with them. There is not going to be a central management system for them... which could be very problematic I have seen many issues with the management locking up, with a reboot being the only way to bring it back. Tranzeo may have worked past these issues by now. In my opinion their radio cases are poorly designed, but it helps make them cheap. Of note the cable boot can be very difficult to work with. Overall though, I would deploy Tranzeo in the right situations. I'm not sure you have one of them though. I would lean towards Ubiquity since they are a cheaper price point and there are more choices for the firmware. On the downside availability can be difficult. I'm also not sure if Tranzeo is RUS approved. I would start from the RUS approved list and work from there... as it will make getting that stimulus money easier. Now if you're looking to do point to multi-point... it is a whole different conversation (and not generally in Tranzeo's favor). Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rogelio Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Using Tranzeo as CPE for rural community I'm looking into setting up wi-fi for rural county (using stimulus dollars) and am now looking for CPE devices to put on each rooftop. A past coworker told me that he's heard good things about Tranzeo, and I was wondering what others here on the list thought about them as a vendor. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Using Tranzeo as CPE for rural community
Well since I got beat up pretty bad it seems... I'll respond :-) BTW if you read my last post... I was pretty clear Tranzeo radios are okay... and can do the job just fine. In my experience though you will find many more people that will curse their radios then praise their radios. I'm probably somewhere in that middle ground... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Using Tranzeo as CPE for rural community A few responses here: 1) You don't have to use Tranzeo APs with Tranzeo CPEs.The new Tranzeo APs (EN-500 series) does have a lot more management features than the older Tranzeo units (TR-6000, TR-5a). You can also use StarOS or Mikrotik APs and have all the centralized management and advanced features that you could possibly want for an 802.11 network. Agreed. One of the advantages to Tranzeo or 802.11 based gear is that it is for the most part interoperable. Yes my experience with Tranzeo is pre EN-500 series. But at the end of the day it's still 802.11... :-) 2) The older CPEs do need to be rebooted occasionally. The newer units do not seem to have this same problem. I'm glad they FINALLY got that fixed. Only took them 5 years or so right? 3) I tend to disagree with comments that the cases are poorly designed. The Tranzeo radios have substantial internal grounding and have a very high degree of tolerance for environmental extremes, both hot and cold. They are built like tanks compared to the PCB in a plastic case design of the Ubiquiti and Motorola Canopy radios. The cable boot is not that bad to work with, but they could be improved. The cases are poorly designed because they are cheap. The mounting hardware is cheap. I've seen the radios fill up with water because they were not sealed right. I've also had that plastic break with the CPE just riding around in my truck (granted something could have hit it I guess). On the flip side... I've dropped Canopy radios off of a 100ft tower once with no damage once so ever. The cable entrance is the easiest one to deal with out there. The radios don't have to be grounded because at no point is the case metal. I'll take the Canopy design any day. 4) Tranzeo is RUS approved. I would have to dig up the link, but I did determine that they will qualify for RUS or stimulus financing. I think all wireless gear qualifies for RUS funding... it's just RUS approved gear goes through the process quicker. Either way, I'm not an expert on RUS funding :-) 5) They work great for PTMP, and there are hundreds of thousands of Tranzeos out in the field providing PTMP service to WISP customers. The 2.4ghz models have the same limitations of all 802.11b gear, but the 802.11a based gear is especially capable and a great value. There was also hundreds of thousands of Smartbridge CPE's out there... but I wouldn't argue that made it a good product. They work okay in low noise low client environments. But they work fine for being an 802.11 a/b device. Personally if I was going this route I would probably look more towards Ubiquity for CPE's and Mikrotik for AP's... but Tranzeo WILL work. Hope that helps. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com 3-dB Networks wrote: So are you looking to provide a muni Wi-Fi type setup? I have used and deployed a few hundred Tranzeo radios... they seem to play best with each other... there has been issues when mixing other clients with them. There is not going to be a central management system for them... which could be very problematic I have seen many issues with the management locking up, with a reboot being the only way to bring it back. Tranzeo may have worked past these issues by now. In my opinion their radio cases are poorly designed, but it helps make them cheap. Of note the cable boot can be very difficult to work with. Overall though, I would deploy Tranzeo in the right situations. I'm not sure you have one of them though. I would lean towards Ubiquity since they are a cheaper price point and there are more choices for the firmware. On the downside availability can be difficult. I'm also not sure if Tranzeo is RUS approved. I would start from the RUS approved list and work from there... as it will make getting that stimulus money easier. Now if you're looking to do point to multi-point... it is a whole different conversation (and not generally in Tranzeo's favor). Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rogelio Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Using Tranzeo as CPE for rural community I'm looking into setting up wi-fi for rural county (using stimulus dollars
Re: [WISPA] getting up to speed on various PtP microwave solutions
E-band in Microwave point to point solutions is 70-90GHz approximately (71-76GHz, 81-86GHz, 92-95GHz). That would mean you're looking at Bridgewave, E-band, and Gigabeam AFAIK. Bridgewave is by far the market leader, and my personal favorite. We have also recently started selling E-band, and it offers a slightly different feature set than Bridgewave. These are short range generally gigabit (full duplex) links. Very sensitive to movement. Here is a general overview of the band from E-band: http://www.ebandcom.com/index.php?id=69 Since you mentioned Dragonwave and Trango I assume you're looking at the other licensed Microwave bands. Each frequency is somewhat different, and has different rules. Not sure of a primer to send you off the top of my head. The good news with all of this gear is that doing link calculations are somewhat easy... many of these manufacturers offer free link planning software that in my experience is pretty much dead on. My suggestion would be to speak to a reseller about what your looking for... I'm sure they could help. If you want to talk to me send me an e-mail offlist at dan...@3-db.net and I would be happy to help further. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rogelio Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] getting up to speed on various PtP microwave solutions I've just recently started becoming familiar with the various microwave e band PtP solutions (Bridgewave, Dragonwave, Gigabeam, Loea, Trango, Proxim, etc). Before this, I knew nothing about things like rain fade or the various characteristics of bands in that range. Does anyone know of any good tutorials for this sort of thing? In other words, say I have a project with various high capacity PtP requirements and need to find the right technology and vendor. Any suggestions on where I'd go to start? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] getting up to speed on various PtP microwave solutions
It's probably a nice general overview... but some things are missing/wrong: There is conditional licensing in the 23GHz band... but it is a narrow part of the band. If you can't get the conditional approval... approval can take up to a year... not just 6 months. On the plus side you can use as small as a 1ft dish in 23GHz. 18GHz requires at a minimum of a 2ft dish. There are also exclusion zones around Denver, CO and Washington DC for the use of this band. 11GHz technically requires the use of a 3ft dish, although secondary use of the band can be had with as small as a 2ft dish... which usually isn't a problem. 6GHz requires at a minimum a 6ft dish. 38/39GHz still has a lot of used Stratex/Ceragon equipment on the market... but the cost of those licenses can vary wildly. While I have deployed many links in this spectrum since it used to be dirt cheap around Denver... I would probably avoid it now. In the long run... you will probably be best off having someone engineer the links for you... which any vendor (including myself) should be able to do for you. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rogelio Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 10:44 AM To: Charles Wu Cc: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] getting up to speed on various PtP microwave solutions Charles Wu wrote: Attached is an article that gives Licensed Backhaul 101 Overview that was written several years ago in Broadband Wireless Magazine -- obviously, pricing for licensed links have fallen dramatically...but the concepts are still the same Thanks, this is helpful also. I like the way it breaks it down into 6-11 GHz, 18-23 GHz, 24 GHz, and 39 GHz solutions. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed
Sure it would. 6ft dishes with space diversity. I sold a link to a company in Nevada doing just that. been working fine for two years now. Dragonwave of course J You could always do 6GHz. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 10:55 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed Jeff, First let me say we LOVE our Trango licensed links. However, the one issue you are not taking into account is distance. I just did a path calc on a 73 mile 5ghz link we have now using a PTP600 and it looks really good there is no way to do that shot with 11ghz (believe me, if I could I would). So, distance may be a limiting factor when considering licensed vs. unlicensed. We won't talk about my 32 mile, 18ghz licensed link (using 2ft dishes) with 99.99% reliability. ;) Travis Microserv Jeff Ehman wrote: Since it is Friday and I am bored Here's some interesting points 11 GHz Licensed Radio - 220 Mb (110 FD): -76 dBm PTP600 - 300 Mb (150 FD): -59.1 dBm - 200 Mb (100 FD): -68.1 dBm 12 Mile Shot - Availability for both systems using 2' dishes is 99.999% -- but we may need larger dishes for 5 GHz to account for interference and noise (while in the licensed band, interference and noise doesn't exist) Assuming no noise for PTP600 - 2' (28 dBi) Dishes on both sides - Aggregate Throughput - 200.68 Mb (~100 Mb Full Duplex) - 4' (34 dBi) Dishes on both sides - Aggregate Throughput - 287.69 Mb (~140 Mb Full Duplex) Now, since the PTP600 requires 30 MHz of spectrum and BOTH polarities, it's safe to assume that generally speaking, we should plan for a minimum thermal noise floor of -80 dBm - adding that into the equation, our calculation now shows the following - 2' (28 dBi) Dishes on both sides - Aggregate Throughput - 109.03 Mb (~50 Mb Full Duplex) - 4' (34 dBi) Dishes on both sides - Aggregate Throughput - 197.61 Mb (~100 Mb Full Duplex) 11 GHz Licensed Radio (no noise to worry about) - 2' (34.3 dBi) Dishes on both sides - Aggregate Throughput - 220 Mb (110 Mb Full Duplex) *NOTE: Licensed radios transmit and receive on SEPARATE frequencies...so round trip latency is ~0.4 milliseconds (~400 microseconds) per hop Now, let's look at cost PTP600 with 2' Dual Pol antennas and misc stuff: $14k PTP600 with 4' Dual Pol antennas and misc stuff: $16k Licensed Radio with 2' Dishes (Software Upgradable to 300 Mb Full Duplex) and FCC License: $12k -Jeff CTI There is a Difference -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:20 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed IMHO the PTP600 is the best UL radio in the market... Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:08 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed From what I understand the PTP600 is an OFDM best effort radio. If the RF environment is favorable then it will pass data. If not then it slows down and/or starts dropping packets. I believe the PTP600 is also a HDX radio, is it not? Not trying to be adversarial...just interested in learning more about any UL radio that can produce 150Mbpd FDX as reliable as a licensed radio set. Anyone have a PTP600 manual they can send me? Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:59 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed Just the PTP600 that I think off ... 30 mhz Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 10:54 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed Ok, I'll bite. What UL radio set is going to produce 150Mbps FDX and at what RF spectrum cost? Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Ehman Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed All, This post is for those looking at putting in high throughput unlicensed radios. I can talk all day about the advantages of licensed (guarantee of 35-40db fade margin for starters) but I want to throw
[WISPA] Proxim WORP Protocol
Anyone here know much about it? What are the improvements over standard 802.11 A/B/G protocol? Thank you in advance Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] using multiple 5.3 cards in a Mikrotik
I missed the part where he said anything about deploying it outdoors :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] using multiple 5.3 cards in a Mikrotik Just a dumb question... If DFS is not certified on MT and is required for 5.3 operation how could you drum up support for planning something illegal? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:40 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] using multiple 5.3 cards in a Mikrotik I have read numerous discussions on problems regarding self interference between two mPCI cards inserted in the same SBC, on same Freqs. Some reporting need for 40Mhz of center channel seperation. These are the factors... U.FL vs MMCX connectors One vs two Antenna Ports on a single mpci card (for example will second unused antenna port on card without pigtail hear noise. Does the second port need to be terminated?) Proximity of mPCI slots to each other. (ADI/Lucaya side by side versus MT 433 Stacked) High power embedded amped vs low power cards. Software thresholds vs not (min and max receive threshold and adapative noise immunity) Bleed over at card versus bleed over at antenna. (polarity won't help at card's port) Interference from Antenna port RF vs internal electronics generated RF noise (used to see this in PCs if HDD were to close to MB) One manufacturer's card vs another's. Receiver overload vs interference Unsubstantiated guestimates about this topic won;t really help because there are a LOT of variables contributing to the problem. MT433 or equivellent will most like work excellent if each card has a different freq such as 2.4, 5.8, and 900. Unless the problem is Receiver Overload. Where in that case maybe 2 CM9s could work better even if both on adjacent channel 5.3? If interference is based on Antenna placement, well thats easilly controllable by a field tech at time of installation. But what I'm concerned about is knowing that the radio system itself is made to be non-ninterfering internally. From a remote management perspective, its going to be painful tracking which radio systems have to be how far apart in channels to not interfere troubleshooting on-the-fly, without some baseline stats defined a head of time. So this brings me to three questions of higher relevence. 1) What do we need to do to guarantee that two cards can co-exist and be used on adjacenet channels without interference at the radio card hardware level (not including antenna placement factors that could allow intference) 2) Has anyone actually used a Spectrum Analyzer or Noise meter to actually measure the RF bleed between to mounted cards? With accurate results of what the interference levels are? 3) Would WISP members be interested in contributing to a small fund to pay someone to actually accurately measure the results for us? I'd like to specifically know for the 433 board. If using the higher quality MMCX w/ single antenna port cards (MT brand card), will 10Mhz of channel seperation be enough, to get two 5.3Ghz channels operating correctly? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Eje Gustafsson e...@wisp-router.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] is this router overloaded? And 5.2 is not allowed for outdoor usage. So Franks unit is an indoor unit I would suspect he is suffering from multipath reflections. Besides on the radar stuff.. The way DFS is designed in MT it will never be able to get certified. First of it must continuously look for and detect radar not just when it first enable the interface. Secondly it at least did a horrible job in actually detecting radar signatures. Besides 5.2 is not part of the band you can use even with a certified radar detecting device. / Eje -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - LTI Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 3:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] is this router overloaded? Part of the 5.2 band. All of the radar patters are in MT, just not certified. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
Re: [WISPA] room jack switch / AP
While I haven't done a wide spread deployment... I have played with the Moto/Tut Systems stuff and I am very impressed. Easy to setup and it just rocks. Hit me offlist if you want more info Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rogelio Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 6:59 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] room jack switch / AP Have any of you guys used those wall plates that are both a switch and an access point? I heard that Colubrius (now HP) makes a good line, although I haven't used them. I've seen the 3comm ones, but haven't implemented them yet. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors
Aperto, Alvarion, and Redline seem to be the market leaders. I would check out each solution, performance and price though they will all be pretty close (I have some experience with Aperto... but since I sell Aperto I'm not going to blab on and on why I think its best since you're looking for other operators experience). With that said, I think you would be making a mistake using 3.65GHz for residential subscriber access in rural areas. Unlicensed spectrum would probably be just fine for it (regardless of what vendor you choose...) If throughput is your major concern... hold off for the Canopy 430 series at the end of the year... that is going to give you 42Mbps in a 20MHz channel in 5.8GHz. If licensed spectrum is your primary concern... 3.65 will do it but your really going to pay for it Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Charles Wyble Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 12:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense. It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11 gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment? One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy (DSL or Cable modem). I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition. So who are the vendors in this space worth considering? What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post sales engineering) etc etc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors
Matt, How does what you say in the first paragraph make Aperto not viable? Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors WiMAX relationships tend to be self-limiting. The good vendors are expensive and as such their customers tend to be more capable. In capable; I mean the operator has done thorough evaluations including field trials of equipment from various vendors. Developed a business plan specifically for the equipment they have selected and the market for which they plan to deploy it. Shared this business plan with the same vendor and have gotten a positive response from all before they deploy the first customer. The above is different from how most WISPs approach WiMAX. Specifically, WISPs tend to already have existing customers, networks, etc and a working business model. These WISPs tend to be looking for new technology that solves specific problems for their existing customers or allows them to better execute their existing business plan. Generally, these WISPs find that WiMAX technology fails in that regard. If you are up for what I mentioned in the first paragraph then I would suggest taking a look at Redline and Alvarion. Both vendors will likely recommend deploying their gear in a fixed architecture using 3650Mhz. You will want to understand how Redline's use of 802.16d with uplink subchannelization compares to Alvarion's use of 802.16e with diversity and how that affects your ability to deliver a specific amount of throughput to your target market. If you are more in the situation that I mentioned in the second paragraph then I would suggest taking a look at Aperto and Tranzeo. My personal recommendation would be for Redline. That is the vendor we selected and have deployed. I would also recommend that you only consider WiMAX for deployments where differentiated services are a core part of your business plan. Without differentiated services I fear WiMAX may never make sense. -Matt On Apr 22, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Charles Wyble wrote: Yes. I know. Which is why I asked very specific questions. I don't really care about the technology involved and am not looking for information on it. I'm asking for vendor recommendations and WISP experiences from people that have actually deployed Wimax in the 3650Mhz space. The area I'm looking to serve wouldn't be cost effective to serve via Wifi. Matt Liotta wrote: Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it and think the technology is actually different and better than what else is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced and not particularly interesting. -Matt On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote: I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience. Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my primary goal. Michael Baird wrote: It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand experience reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I think a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get through that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is superior. Regards Michael Baird So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense. It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11 gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment? One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy (DSL or Cable modem). I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition. So who are the vendors in this space worth considering? What are peoples
Re: [WISPA] Looking for P-COM DS3 radios
Try American Communications... they should be able to get a hold of them for you. Also get a hold of the guys over at Skybeam (I'm sure you love the use of that name ;-) Mesa has a bunch of P-Com links I think they are ripping out for Dragonwave... I can't recall if they were 23GHz, 18GHz, or possibly 38GHz Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:25 PM To: WISPA General List; w...@part-15.org; w...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Looking for P-COM DS3 radios Hello, I just got access to a few towers that had working 18ghz and 23ghz P-Com links on them at a point in the nearby past. I have the dishes that were used for these links as well, but the Pcom radios were 4 and 8 T1 models. My understanding is that I can re-use the dishes with DS3 or OC3 Pcom radios. Does anyone know of a good source for those radios? Please let me know. Thanks! Matt Larsen vistabeam.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors
John, My boss has field tested Aperto's gear to 15miles at full modulation... so a 30km cell radius (18 miles) is possible. But the thing is that wouldn't be the average deployment... and with Cyclone gear you could push the system out that far too (because its going to be line of sight, and the cell is going to be on a mountain top probably) If the only thing you know about deploying gear is trees like the east coast... that expectation isn't going to work for you. If you live in the west where you have towers on mountaintops that can be seen from 70 miles away... its okay. My biggest problem with Jeff's analysis is how many customers signed up in a year... I don't think any WISP will grow 500 customers in 5 months. Or even 150 customers in 5 months (well I've setup a tower before and signed up that many customers to one... but that is the exception rather than the norm). The other catch would be... none of this math makes sense in a rip and replace... so unless your new... you have to rip an old system out to get WiMAX. I also have a slight issue with the assertion that Canopy does not do VoIP... it does it just fine and many Canopy WISP's also sell VoIP services (prime example... Skybeam/JAB). There also is never a 100% take rate on it (probably more like 50% tops) so that has to be factored in. With that said... besides the ugly CPE... we have chosen Aperto as our vendor of choice in the 3.65GHz band. I like it, and I think if you do field trials with it, it will win out over many of the other systems. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 12:13 AM To: jefftho...@fastmail.fm; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors Cell radius= 30km The point is for a TCO, that's one tower site to cover a 20km radius, meaning less leases per month of 1k or more, so isntead of 4 tower sites to cover this area ( and pay 4k per month ) So...how are you breaking the laws of physics with this system? Unless you are serving the middle of the dessert then you probably need to back your cell radius down to say 3km. I see above you use 2 different cell radius figures. Is it possible you are overstating expectations in a big way here Jeff? I am a proponent of WiMax but I am getting sick and tired of seeing bloated specs to sell systems. It is NOT something I want to see and I feel that these false representations have hurt WiMax adoption for years. Scriv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors
Just saying it does work... not saying I'd recommend it ;-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 10:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors Thanks for the compliment Daniel, but please God, let's not have anyone thinking they can build a 30 km radius cell with our stuff or anyone's stuff in WiMAX. I don't care if you can see your dog running away for three days it is so flat and the sun always shines and the wind is always at your back -- I know of no PMP situation where such a cell should ever be built. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 4:23 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors John, My boss has field tested Aperto's gear to 15miles at full modulation... so a 30km cell radius (18 miles) is possible. But the thing is that wouldn't be the average deployment... and with Cyclone gear you could push the system out that far too (because its going to be line of sight, and the cell is going to be on a mountain top probably) If the only thing you know about deploying gear is trees like the east coast... that expectation isn't going to work for you. If you live in the west where you have towers on mountaintops that can be seen from 70 miles away... its okay. My biggest problem with Jeff's analysis is how many customers signed up in a year... I don't think any WISP will grow 500 customers in 5 months. Or even 150 customers in 5 months (well I've setup a tower before and signed up that many customers to one... but that is the exception rather than the norm). The other catch would be... none of this math makes sense in a rip and replace... so unless your new... you have to rip an old system out to get WiMAX. I also have a slight issue with the assertion that Canopy does not do VoIP... it does it just fine and many Canopy WISP's also sell VoIP services (prime example... Skybeam/JAB). There also is never a 100% take rate on it (probably more like 50% tops) so that has to be factored in. With that said... besides the ugly CPE... we have chosen Aperto as our vendor of choice in the 3.65GHz band. I like it, and I think if you do field trials with it, it will win out over many of the other systems. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 12:13 AM To: jefftho...@fastmail.fm; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors Cell radius= 30km The point is for a TCO, that's one tower site to cover a 20km radius, meaning less leases per month of 1k or more, so isntead of 4 tower sites to cover this area ( and pay 4k per month ) So...how are you breaking the laws of physics with this system? Unless you are serving the middle of the dessert then you probably need to back your cell radius down to say 3km. I see above you use 2 different cell radius figures. Is it possible you are overstating expectations in a big way here Jeff? I am a proponent of WiMax but I am getting sick and tired of seeing bloated specs to sell systems. It is NOT something I want to see and I feel that these false representations have hurt WiMax adoption for years. Scriv --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] NJ tripods
Hutton has a warehouse in North Brunswick... not sure how far away that is... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of sa...@jeffcosoho.com Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:57 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] NJ tripods We have a project in NJ that requires 15-18 non-pen tripods. They need to be able to handle 2' dishes and sectors with a 10' pole. Anybody in that area know where I can buy them locally around Ocean City or Atlantic City? Thanx Jim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 802.11 a, b, g booster
Linksys has one too... but I didn't have much luck with it in the situation I used it in (high end house that had foil bound to their insulation... so nothing wireless was working past one room) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Kilton Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 10:58 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 802.11 a, b, g booster Netgear has some of these units for B/G. Don't know about A, can't imagine many customers are using A gear though. -Cam -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Kilton Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 12:57 PM To: aosg...@streamline-solutions.net; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 802.11 a, b, g booster Please don't do this in Maine, I have enough interference. -Cameron -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Aaron D. Osgood Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 12:21 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] 802.11 a, b, g booster We're looking for a low cost device that our customers can (preferably) self install in their locations to boost or repeat their WiFi (802.11 A, B, and G) Suggestions? Aaron D. Osgood Streamline Solutions L.L.C P.O. Box 6115 Falmouth, ME 04105 TEL: 207-781-5561 FAX: 207-781-8067 MOBILE: 207-831-5829 PAGE: 2078315...@vtext.com AOLIM: OzCom1 ICQ: 206889374 aosg...@streamline-solutions.net Blog: http://streamlinesolutionsllc.blogspot.com/ http://www.streamline-solutions.net http://www.WMDaWARe.com Introducing Efficiency to Business since 1986. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 802.11 a, b, g booster
Here is the Linksys solution: http://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/products/WRE54G Looks like its $100 MSRP... I bet you could purchase them in larger orders for cheaper to resell though. But it plugs straight into the outlet... small form factor. Not 802.11a though. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - LTI Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:02 AM To: aosg...@streamline-solutions.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 802.11 a, b, g booster RouterOS. We can ship it configured to connect to your AP and rebroadcast :) This is the simplest way. We can do this with MESH setups, routed or bridged :) * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Aaron D. Osgood wrote: We're looking for a low cost device that our customers can (preferably) self install in their locations to boost or repeat their WiFi (802.11 A, B, and G) Suggestions? Aaron D. Osgood Streamline Solutions L.L.C P.O. Box 6115 Falmouth, ME 04105 TEL: 207-781-5561 FAX: 207-781-8067 MOBILE: 207-831-5829 PAGE: 2078315...@vtext.com AOLIM: OzCom1 ICQ: 206889374 aosg...@streamline-solutions.net Blog: http://streamlinesolutionsllc.blogspot.com/ http://www.streamline-solutions.net http://www.WMDaWARe.com Introducing Efficiency to Business since 1986. -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 802.11 a, b, g booster
I don't recall... it's been probably a year and a half since I screwed around with it. I do know that it was pretty easy to setup (just put in the wireless network info basically and off you went). I don't see why it wouldn't work with other manufacturers... maybe ask their tech support...? Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 802.11 a, b, g booster Do Linksys devices work with 802.11abg things now? I know at one point they would only bridge with other Linksys devices of the exact same model and firmware. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 1:08 PM, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: Here is the Linksys solution: http://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/products/WRE54G Looks like its $100 MSRP... I bet you could purchase them in larger orders for cheaper to resell though. But it plugs straight into the outlet... small form factor. Not 802.11a though. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - LTI Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:02 AM To: aosg...@streamline-solutions.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 802.11 a, b, g booster RouterOS. We can ship it configured to connect to your AP and rebroadcast :) This is the simplest way. We can do this with MESH setups, routed or bridged :) * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Aaron D. Osgood wrote: We're looking for a low cost device that our customers can (preferably) self install in their locations to boost or repeat their WiFi (802.11 A, B, and G) Suggestions? Aaron D. Osgood Streamline Solutions L.L.C P.O. Box 6115 Falmouth, ME 04105 TEL: 207-781-5561 FAX: 207-781-8067 MOBILE: 207-831-5829 PAGE: 2078315...@vtext.com AOLIM: OzCom1 ICQ: 206889374 aosg...@streamline-solutions.net Blog: http://streamlinesolutionsllc.blogspot.com/ http://www.streamline-solutions.net http://www.WMDaWARe.com Introducing Efficiency to Business since 1986. --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [WISPA] 802.11 a, b, g booster
I wouldn't count on a discount from a reseller like Newegg... go to one of the distributors like Ingram Micro... there are four options: http://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/wheretobuy When I had my own company as a side job thing I had an account with a disty (I can't recall who) so I could get better pricing on D-link gear... made it so I could sell it much cheaper to my end users (granted Best Buy et. Al. also got those mail in rebates which I didn't... so they could work out in the long run being cheaper on a one/two scale) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Neal Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 1:31 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 802.11 a, b, g booster The WRE54G is out of stock at Newegg, also, don't count on saving much on larger orders. We order WRT54GL's, the biggest discount we got was 5% when we ordered 150 of them, and they won't do that anymore. -Kevin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:09 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 802.11 a, b, g booster Here is the Linksys solution: http://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/products/WRE54G Looks like its $100 MSRP... I bet you could purchase them in larger orders for cheaper to resell though. But it plugs straight into the outlet... small form factor. Not 802.11a though. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - LTI Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:02 AM To: aosg...@streamline-solutions.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 802.11 a, b, g booster RouterOS. We can ship it configured to connect to your AP and rebroadcast :) This is the simplest way. We can do this with MESH setups, routed or bridged :) * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Aaron D. Osgood wrote: We're looking for a low cost device that our customers can (preferably) self install in their locations to boost or repeat their WiFi (802.11 A, B, and G) Suggestions? Aaron D. Osgood Streamline Solutions L.L.C P.O. Box 6115 Falmouth, ME 04105 TEL: 207-781-5561 FAX: 207-781-8067 MOBILE: 207-831-5829 PAGE: 2078315...@vtext.com AOLIM: OzCom1 ICQ: 206889374 aosg...@streamline-solutions.net Blog: http://streamlinesolutionsllc.blogspot.com/ http://www.streamline-solutions.net http://www.WMDaWARe.com Introducing Efficiency to Business since 1986. - - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
[WISPA] Free Radius Servers
Anyone have any recommendations for a free Radius server? Specifically interested in credit card processing for a hotspot application. Thank you, Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Free Radius Servers
Right... OS agnostic (i.e. whatever will work the best, but I'd assume Linux since I'm looking for free) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rogelio Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 11:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Free Radius Servers 3-dB Networks wrote: Anyone have any recommendations for a free Radius server? Specifically interested in credit card processing for a hotspot application. Which OS? Is this a pay for internet access thing? e.g. People are authenticated after they pay for access? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Indoor CPE install / window glass type determination
I would advise against doing it. If the CPE is inside it makes fixing customer problems harder (especially 900MHz/2.4GHz since the noise has even less barriers to the CPE) and makes it that the customer has to be home to work on the CPE or to deinstall the CPE. Sounds like your opening up a can of worms... and I'm not sure what the gain would be (sure quicker installs, but the customer is paying for that right?). I cringe at the thought of customer installed CPE's... With that said I have installed Canopy SM's through windows occasionally for special circumstances and have had little issues with them... besides of course tinted windows or energy efficient windows (but depending on distance it might not be an issue). I've even deployed 2.4GHz Wi-Fi based gear in attics with absolutely no-LOS... once again not recommended but you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 4:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Indoor CPE install / window glass type determination All, Thinking of doing simple indoor installs for short clients 1mi. Is anyone else doing this? any tips or suggestions? I have seen what happens when a home has 'low e' windows! Having lead in the glass makes a very effective microwave shield. Is there an easy way to identify these windows in a home? Would be nice to find out from customer ahead of time if possible. is there a simple tool for the installer to save time identifying these windows? Thanks in Advance, Marshall Rabbit Meadows Technology WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Anyone servicing Laramie Wy.
Lariat.net (Brett Glasses Shop)... running Wi-Fi based gear (Tranzeo, Deliberant, etc.), Millhouse Electronics is there running Canopy gear (I think). I think there is at least one other Canopy operator there too. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Nix Jr. Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 1:46 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Anyone servicing Laramie Wy. Have a lead in the area Pat Nix pni...@csweb.net csweb.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus Allocations?
Charles is right 100%, and he is being as proactive as any VAR (including DR and ourselves... Charles did a WiNOG on this not to long ago) trying to figure the mess out so you can get the money (hopefully you'll spend it with us right!). Here is what I know (and I've done more research and had more conversations than I think I cared to): - No one knows where the money is going to go or who is going to get it. Some people think the States are going to get all the money, others that Fiber will get all of the money, Telco's will get it, only people that have received RUS funding in the past will get it, etc. No one has a clear idea of where the money is going, so it's hard to say what anyone can do to help you get the money except give you an idea of what the RUS process is like. - Realistically, the only (and best) thing WISPA can do is provide a forum for people to discuss what they are doing to get the money, and WISPA can help lobby the government to get the money into our hands. I wouldn't expect WISPA to provide a grant in a box widget :-) - Many people are arguing already that if you haven't already filed paperwork, you're not going to get any money. It's amazing how many people have already put in RUS applications to get this money, before the rules on who is going to get it has been defined! - There are a 1,000 people now that think they are going to get a million dollars from the Government to start a WISP... I'm afraid they are going to crash and burn Metricom style. So while an incumbent might be the better choice to get the money, the packages newcomers are putting together are pretty impressive. But I digress... because... - Personally, I'm going to be surprised if the WISP industry gets even 10% of the money... the sad thing being we can do much more with it than the people that probably will get it. Anyways, I wouldn't expect any reseller/distributor/trade organization to give you the secret sauce on how to get that money. Sure we are all doing research to try to help people get money, but it doesn't mean they will be right (I've seen some pretty interesting ideas on who/how people are going to get money... some that I've wanted to laugh at). So I would start looking at filling out some of the RUS paperwork, and gathering as much information as you can. In the long run, if you want the money, YOUR going to have to go get it... everyone else can help though :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus Allocations? Hi Scott, What has WISPA came up with to help WISP's get in on the broadband stimulus package? Throw me some bait? As I promised before, my membership fees(after tax season) are sitting here... give me something to bite. Not being an A**, but I belonged to one place(not WISPA), but didn't get much out of it. I did receive an invitation from Double Radius to help me get in on this. Just wanting to know if WISPA got anything going on, before I jump on that opportunity? One of my regular suppliers that I trust. From someone who's successfully navigated this process in various iterations, the process of putting in an application for government funding (be it RUS/NTIA/etc) is something that's measured in inches of thickness of paper and months (or years) of labor -- at the last ISPCON, Donny Bell, a WISP out of Minnesota mentioned that he spent in excess of $250k in time / effort / manpower / legal fees for his first RUS loan application -- and was denied! Keep in mind too, if you take a look at the comments on the stimulus funding, there were thousands of comments (and many from people with deep pockets and plenty of lawyers and DC lobbying) -- the competition for this money will be, IMO, incredibly stiff and will require a full- time expensive, sustained effort if you even want to have a chance to win I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect $250 / year in dues to provide you a turn-key solution for grant funding That said, for your information -- here's a link to the latest in BTOP updates: http://www.recovery.gov/?q=content/program- planprogram_id=5517#schedule -Charles -- Original Message -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 13:00:41 -0400 I find the secret sauce of converting a customer a very interesting subject as well. For the most part nearly every WISP I have run had a monopoly. The ones that didnt had a niche of some kind. My first owner/operator venture was not good because it was in a highly competitive market and I could not overcome the go with the big company mentality. My customers said I gave great service but even they succumbed to price. Therefore, I sold that and went back
Re: [WISPA] Ethernet Cabling
I'm becoming a fan of this stuff: http://www.superioressex.com/uploadedFiles/Communications_Cable/osp_broadban d_cat5e.pdf Specifically the BBDGE cable. It's about $400 per 1000ft spool though... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Ethernet Cabling We are getting ready to order ethernet cabling, and looking at some different options for the towers and client installs. I was wondering what people here liked to use. Particularily I'm interested in what you look for in shielding/water protection, should I get a flooded cable, if so with what? Will the gel filled type overheat in the sun? Should i run all of this in conduit, at least for the AP's at the towers? Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Grounding Dragonwave Horizon Compact
Mark... I've never seen a recommendation from Dragonwave to ground the Ethernet cable at the top. For all of the links I have installed... I never have... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 9:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Grounding Dragonwave Horizon Compact We're installing a Dragonwave Horizon Compact system and I'm not quite sure how to ground it. First off, this unit has dual copper ethernets (1 for PoE/Data, 1 for Management). The unit is completely outside powered via PoE. We know how to ground the radio above, and the cat5 below at the PoE / Lightning Arrestor. What we don't know is what to do with the ethernet cable above. We're using the Belden 7919A outdoor shielded cable, as recommended by the Dragonwave Quick Reference Guide. Can someone tell me if the ethernet cables need to be grounded near the radio at the top of the tower? This is on a water tower, btw, and we have a ground cable going from the ground rod directly to the radio (#6, about 150'). Other side is on a high school rooftop, grounded directly to a rod (#6, about 200'). Again, not sure what to do with the radio-side cat5 cable. Any help would be appreciated, as we're to have this project completed by Friday and into testing phase. Thanks... Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] 3.65GHz Exclusion Zone
Okay I'm banging my head against the wall a bit this morning J Subpart Z of the FCC Part 90 Rules - Wireless Broadband Serices in the 3650-3700 MHz Band - Section 90.1331 states: (a)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(2) of this section, base and fixed stations may not be located within 150 km of any grandfathered satellite earth station operating in the 3650-3700 MHz band. The coordinates of these stations are available at http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sd/3650; My interpretation of that rule would mean that you need to draw a circle of a radius of 150Km from each station, and this is your exclusion zone. Yet many maps on the web show this 150Km requirement as diameter. not as a radius. Our office would be outside of the exclusion zone if it is a diameter requirement, yet inside the exclusion zone if it is a radius requirement. Can anyone point me to something from the FCC that specifies what the requirement is? Thank you, Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Exclusion Zone
I wonder why all of those maps have it different... For instance: http://zing.naviciti.com/ Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Pat O'Connor Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Exclusion Zone It is being 150km form the grandfathered earth station. I'm going through the same thing right now getting an agreement from them to operate WiMax gear. BTW I'm at a 145km distance from them, but the FCC won't register my base stations without an agreement. 3-dB Networks wrote: Okay I'm banging my head against the wall a bit this morning J Subpart Z of the FCC Part 90 Rules - Wireless Broadband Serices in the 3650-3700 MHz Band - Section 90.1331 states: (a)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(2) of this section, base and fixed stations may not be located within 150 km of any grandfathered satellite earth station operating in the 3650-3700 MHz band. The coordinates of these stations are available at http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sd/3650; My interpretation of that rule would mean that you need to draw a circle of a radius of 150Km from each station, and this is your exclusion zone. Yet many maps on the web show this 150Km requirement as diameter. not as a radius. Our office would be outside of the exclusion zone if it is a diameter requirement, yet inside the exclusion zone if it is a radius requirement. Can anyone point me to something from the FCC that specifies what the requirement is? Thank you, Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network
Your missing management... and that is going to be a major player. Managing 100 nodes isn't something you want to do one by one. You're going to have to have a strong NMS server behind it. Also, what about self-healing the mesh? Heck, without a strong NMS platform how is the mesh created? I'm sure I could dig into more :-) I really question you can get a $350 per node system when all of the ones out there that are true muni type are much more expensive - MotoMesh Duo is expensive for a reason I'd think besides just being Moto. Also... you need to define how many nodes can be in the mesh I think getting DFS compliance on the 5GHz backhaul might be expensive... My 2 cents. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:47 AM To: Motorola Canopy User Group Cc: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network Can do everything on this, but the cost. Looks like around $515 in single unit pricing. Shoot me a call if you have questions. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */ LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training http://www.onlinemikrotiktraining.com/* The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Jerry Richardson wrote: I believe there is still a market for municipal public wifi. I am finding the barrier is the cost of the radios at $1k ea minimum for a true mesh type dual radio system. Anything lower is cost is not true Mesh. Yes, I could put something together using pieces and parts however that's a support nightmare waiting to happen. If you could have a Mesh Radio designed the way you want, what would it look like? My wish would look something like this: - Dual radio - Client access on 802.11b/g (optional 4.9 model for Public Safety) - Mesh on 802.11a (open-mesh?) with DFS on 5.2/5.4 - Automatic scan for best channel - Multi-SSID (up to 16 SSID/VLAN sets) - BW allocation per SSID - QoS per VLAN - Encryption - Client Isolation - SNMP v1, v2 - Ping watchdog - Push/Pull config - NAT/DHCP to clients (running as router) - 10/100 Ethernet - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own) - Browser Configurable - POE - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party support/forums/mail lists) - FCC certified as a system - Cost 350.00 Let me know what you would like to see as I am working with a manufacturer to develop this or something very close to it. airCloud Communications /Broadband for Business/ /Public and Private WiFi/ // Jerry Richardson VP Operations 925-260-4119 _ *ConsuWISP* /RF Topographical Coverage Maps/ /Network Optimization and Planning/ /Network Design and Troubleshooting/ /Installer and Technician Training/ // http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jerry-richardson/6/372/354 P Please consider the environment before printing this email WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Exclusion Zone
Thanks for the help guys. Charles I would be interested in it... offlist or onlist is fine for me Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Charles Wyble Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:28 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Exclusion Zone BTW the calculations in the RO appendix have errors. I have a corrected version provided to me by the FCC OET. If there is interest I can post it online and send the link. Matt Liotta wrote: 150km radius -Matt On Jun 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, 3-dB Networks wrote: Okay I'm banging my head against the wall a bit this morning J Subpart Z of the FCC Part 90 Rules - Wireless Broadband Serices in the 3650-3700 MHz Band - Section 90.1331 states: (a)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(2) of this section, base and fixed stations may not be located within 150 km of any grandfathered satellite earth station operating in the 3650-3700 MHz band. The coordinates of these stations are available at http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sd/3650; My interpretation of that rule would mean that you need to draw a circle of a radius of 150Km from each station, and this is your exclusion zone. Yet many maps on the web show this 150Km requirement as diameter. not as a radius. Our office would be outside of the exclusion zone if it is a diameter requirement, yet inside the exclusion zone if it is a radius requirement. Can anyone point me to something from the FCC that specifies what the requirement is? Thank you, Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] High Speed Internet, Bldg 185, Offutt AFB, NE
http://tinyurl.com/kny9a7 Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Tranzeo Surge Suppression
Does anyone have a recommendation for an outside surge suppressor for Tranzeo radios? I know the PoE has one built in, but depending on how you read the electric code you have to have one before coming into the building. Thanks! Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question re: WISP for sale
Yeah don't expect over 2x annual revenue right now. 1x might be more realistic. depending on the network and what a new operator would have to do to bring it into theirs, etc. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question re: WISP for sale I have heard .5-2 times annual many times on this list Josh Luthman wrote: One way I have heard it done: Take the annual gross revenue, times it by 3 (three years gross revenue) and that's the buy out cost starting point. Seen this more so with telecom (voice) then data services, but it's a place to start. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Patrick D. Nix, Jr pni...@cnetworksolutions.com wrote: I apologize as I know this has been discussed on the list before. We are entertaining the idea of selling out of our respectable size wireless ISP business in eastern Oklahoma. We have about 500 (growing daily) subscribers. Anyway, we are working on determining the net worth of the business. Any thoughts or formulas for determining this? Patrick Nix, Jr., Computer Network Solutions CSWEB.NET Internet Services IT Manager http://www.cnetworksolutions.com http://www.csweb.net (918) 235-0414 Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave Support
Probably coming late to this... my experience with their support (the very limited times I have need to contact them) has been outstanding. For instance, one radio we needed an advanced RMA on we contacting them at 4pm MST and they had us the new one the next day. I have received telephone support 24x7 in emergenices, and e-mail support during normal business hours is pretty quick. With that said, I have only had to RMA a radio once (out of 20 links or so installed... and at least 3x that sold), and have only had to contact them a handful of times, mostly for non-emergency questions. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of can...@believewireless.net Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 6:52 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Dragonwave Support Just curious what everyone's experience with Dragonwave support has been. Do they answer e-mail/phone calls promptly? Is their support 24/7? Is the product so good you just don't know because you've never contacted them? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave Support
Hey I'm not just a sales man :-D I keep saying I'm the unlucky guy from the Mesa Infrastructure team that got pushed into sales ;-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:17 PM To: can...@believewireless.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave Support Well, when I really needed support for Dragonwave, 3-DB Networks (Daniel White) was the man. (even though he's in sales) So I'm saying, you can also rely on the channel. As for Dragonwave direct support, during business hours I had found them to be helpful, and I have respect for their engineer's skill sets. And 24x7 support is an option for REAL Emergencies. But, I tried calling the 24x7 support twice (not crazy hours), and I got a call back promptly both times, and they answered my questions. BUT they made me feel so guilty for calling, I'm not sure I'll ever call it again. And support was rushed, and to the minimum level needed to get me going. Be prepared for the typical, you sure have better read the manual thouroughly before wasting their time on Sunday, and better have justification that its important. It is NOT regular support given 24/7. Its page someone at home 24x7, when they don't really want to be disturbed, but they'll take the call, if its important. I'm not complaining, I'm very thankful I had an option to call them on Sunday. I'm just setting realistic expectations. Compare that to Cogent Communcations support. You can call them at 3am in the morning, and get an experienced CISCO certified engineer, to help you do just about anything. And they welcome your call, because they have a full night crew there waiting for work. Its a whole nother level of 24x7 support. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: can...@believewireless.net p...@believewireless.net To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 8:52 AM Subject: [WISPA] Dragonwave Support Just curious what everyone's experience with Dragonwave support has been. Do they answer e-mail/phone calls promptly? Is their support 24/7? Is the product so good you just don't know because you've never contacted them? -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Bullet 5M
The bands legal for outdoor use in the US is: U-NII-2 - 5.25GHz to 5.35GHz (subject to DFS) U-NII Worldwide - 5.47GHz to 5.725GHz (Subject to DFS, otherwise known as the 5.4GHz band) U-NII-3 - 5.725GHz to 5.825GHz U-NII-1 is 5.15GHz to 5.25GHz and is illegal for operation outdoors in the United States. But you really need to check the FCC ID, as most likely these things cannot do DFS which would limit you to the U-NII-3 band. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tim Kerns Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 10:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Bullet 5M I just received a couple to begin testing (more like playing with) and I'm not sure of the Freq. it covers. The selections are : 5180 to 5320 in 20 meg increments. 5745 to 5805 in 20 meg increments but it also has: 5500 to 5680 in 20 meg increments. Is this unlicensed spectrum? I thought 5400 was, but didn't think 5500 to 5680 was. Thanks, Tim Kerns CV-Access, Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tranzeo 900 Latency
What does your noise floor look like? C/I? Have you tried moving from H-pol to V-pol and vice versa? Could it be self interference (which I think might be the biggest problem with 900MHz, at least the possibility of it)? What type of antennas are you using... can you sectorize further or put higher gain antennas at the clients? Can you add filters possibly to help with the noise? How large are your channels? Can you use a smaller channel? Assuming your sectors are not overloaded... I would assume interference too. Now I would pitch Canopy... but I'm sure you don't want to hear that :-D Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 7:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Tranzeo 900 Latency We have a couple of sectors of 900 MHz Tranzeo which were running fine previously but seem to experience enormous latency at times now. I am talking about upwards of 5000 milliseconds (5 full seconds) for a return on a ping. It is intermittent. I am guessing interference but was wondering if anyone had seen anything else cause this. We have had limited success in dealing with interference in 900 MHz previously so we are hoping there is something else we can try before completely bailing on the band in those locations. Any ideas are appreciated. John Scrivner WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Installs on Towers, what's your method?
Not recommending this brand... just found it on google http://www.absolutesource.com/products/specialty-cable-ties/stainless-steel/ standard/ I've never seen them on a tower. I hate to say it, but the cell guys do it right. Hangers are the way to go if you can afford the time and the cost of them: http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProducts.do?groupId=436subgroupId=13 http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProducts.do?groupId=436subgroupId=10 Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 8:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Installs on Towers, what's your method? I've never heard of such a thing. - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Installs on Towers, what's your method? How about the metal zip ties? On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: I have not seen any zip ties hold up. Even the supposedly uv rated ones. The BEST I've seen so far (learned this from an old time linesman) is to use a big, uv rated zip tie to hold things. Wrap that with good quality electrical tape to keep the sun off of it. Or just do like the old timers. I've seen some VERY old towers out here. What's holding that cable on 30 years later? Wire. Wrap it around a couple of times, twist and forget. marlon - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:18 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Installs on Towers, what's your method? I disagree on the electrical tape. Every climb where I see electrical tape the stuff is remarkably frail. A stiff breeze would peel it right off. Maybe 3M is way better then whatever I saw. The tower climber I have to use for a couple towers lead me to these and I love them: http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=455824eventPag e=2 They can get tighter due to finer distances between ridges and last forever. As was said, these things are razor sharp once cut. Just last week I cut my finger on one of these and didn't notice it for a good while. I can't think of anything to add to that list since you posted it but I'm sure someone will get an idea =) Good list to have! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:20 AM, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.comwrote: Similar but instead of Zip ties use good electrical tape (3m) Put enough wraps (6-10) and it will last probably longer than tie wrap and it puts more even pressure on all cable types than tie wraps Bonus is no rough edges, have one size fits all roll, able to remove without tools etc Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x102 On Aug 4, 2009, at 11:56 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I just thought I'd share what we do for our tower installs, and find out what/if anything other people are doing. RF Prep 1. Use Radio Mobile to determine what we will need for antennas, radios, etc. Basic Tower Side/Mounting/Cables 1. Use a 18-24 standoff mount, or sometimes direct to the leg (sectors and backhauls). 2. Use LMR400 for jumper connections, mastic, tape, butyl, tape. 3. Use CMXR for Cat-5e cable, solder the ground ends, seal around with heatshrink. 4. Use Dielectric Grease on all connections. Protects the Ethernet port and cable from allowing condensation or moisture to build up on the connector and get water inside the cable. I also use it on RF. Once I was on a building and installing a link. I didn't have any tape, so I just used dielectric grease on the connector. I went back to that building a year later and the connections are still solid. I know for a fact I have had water in a connector when only using mastic, so this was bare and it was dry. Link is still solid. 5. Use UV Rated zip ties, so that they don't break later on down the road. Lightning Protection Side 1. Use QLW-8080s Ethernet Surge Suppressor on interior of any MikroTik board. 2. Use PolyPhaser Lightning protection on all connections. 3. Use 600SS or other Canopy Grounding 4. Check the resistance in the current grounding from tower to ground source. 5. Use CMXR for the grounding and double shield. Safety Fall Protection 1. Hard Hats/Helmets Everyone there. 2. Steel-toed boots with the arch plate for standing on those towers. 3. We use Elk River and DBI/Sala Exofit Tower XP Harnesses, 1-2 positioning lanyards
Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
What do those cost? Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Curtis Maurand Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 8:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Something like that. These guys have one that runs for 90 hours is 250 watts 12 or 24 VDC and uses a methanol and water mix. methane fuel cells don't use platinum and are, therefore, less expensive. Its configurable with an RS-232 port. It can be used as a battery charger as well so that if your system has dropped to battery, it will recharge the battery after its charge has dropped to a configurable level. Its pretty cool stuff. I was looking to backup power an entire data center with one of the larger ones a couple of years ago. There is a european company called BAXI that makes fuel cells as well. This one is perfect for the application requirements in the original email. I don't recall them as being that expensive either. http://www.idatech.com/Products-and-Services-iGen-System2.asp --Curtis Tom DeReggi wrote: Thanks PS. Isn't Hydrogen Fual Cell the technology Spring just got like $X billion grant to pioneer? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Curtis Maurand cmaur...@xyonet.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Sorry, I should have posted this page. no moving parts. http://www.idatech.com/ Tom DeReggi wrote: Patrick, All excellent points, and reality checks. Thanks for the feedback! Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Shoemaker shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator I think you'll find that to get a propane/NG generator installed on a commercial building rooftop, you'll be looking at $10k minimum using even the cheapest Generac air-cooled units. You'll need a roofing company to come out and modify the roof to provide a mounting surface for the generator, that will probably be the biggest cost. Getting management comfortable with modifying a $300k roof membrane could be an issue as well. Then getting gas to the unit from the building's gas supply will require a plumbing contractor, permits, inspections. Then the electrical hookup- more permits and inspections and a licensed EC. I just got a quote for qty 8 110AH 12v AGM batteries for a new site: $1500 including shipping. A note on the Generac air-cooled generators. They break. All generators break. The key is routine testing and PM. The generac air-cooled models don't have any provision for automatic alarm reporting. So when a battery dies or gas valve sticks or spark plug fouls or whatever, you won't know about it until a manual site inspection or the power goes out. The better generators (and the Generac liquid cooled models) have contact closures or RS232 interfaces to report these conditions to your site monitoring system, in turn notifying you back at the NOC. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Tom DeReggi wrote: We also use the triplite APS inverters with good quality Gel cell. Actually, we got a good 15 years out of the existing CD batteries, because we inherited them from Teligent days :-) But new, qty 4- 12V 150AH batteries in series for about 3500watt and decent run-time is $1400. + $800 for replacement inverters. (The Triplites worked really well, but about half of them died by the end of eight years. We matched good inverters with good pre-existing batteries and vice versa.) So our thought was Why not buy a $2000 generator for the run-time and load, and then several smaller UPSes for infront to cover the surges, power conditioning, and monitoring? Ones that keep running even when batteries short out. Part of the reason we are investigating is that we now have duplicate need of devices to power. Some are AC devices like PC routers. Some are 20-24VDC w/AC adapters. Some are new licensed gear running on 48V. Cost is increased having long battery run time on both seperate AC and DC backup power subsystems. And how do we plan for load growth? How many new radios installed will be AC or DC? Unlicensed versus Licensed? We really dont know in advance. There is a lot of power waste going from AC to DC to AC to DC. The thought was... If long run time was accomplished by the propaine generator, both DC and AC battery subsystems could be installed with lower cost lower run-time batteries. We'd still need to account for max watts growth
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Bullet 5M
There is more to Canopy than timing. Until a cheap manufacturer ditches the atheros chipset they will never compete RF wise with Canopy. Its hard to beat a system that has had millions poured into it by the best RF engineers in the world :-D Timing in an atheros chipset though would make the case for Canopy more difficult though. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 9:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Bullet 5M Canopy uses a timing feature. Much like polling except their's goes a step further with GPS sync. I have always advocated that one day, one of these cheap mfg providers would get this right in their equipment, and then Moto would not be the sh*t no more. If Ubiquity gets this right, they will be one step closer! And...help all our bottom lines. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:59:12 -0400 What do you mean by Canopy type functionality? On 8/6/09, Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com wrote: Yes, they are being very quiet about it, supposed to announce it during the weekend officially, as it hasn't been released yet. They are planning to offer Canopy type functionality at Ubiquity prices. They said no PS though, so I suspect they have something else in mind to replace that. Regards Michael Baird optional polling This will be real nice. I wonder if the will do it for all the NS and PS series? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:34:35 -0400 They are supposed to explain the extra features in a press release this weekend. From the forums it appears they are going to impliment optional polling on their BulletM series w/cpe's to follow, other differences would be the single stream 802.11n, and a much beefier CPU for more users per sector in the 802.11b/g modes vs the normal bullet, and higher real TCP throughput for the backhauls. Regards Michael Baird Would you mind sharing the FCC id? UBNT claims it is different than the regular bullet, but doesn't share it, and I don't see it on the FCC oet website search. If it's the same as the bullet, you'll only be able to use the 5745 and up freq band. On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 10:44:40PM -0700, Tim Kerns wrote: I just received a couple to begin testing (more like playing with) and I'm not sure of the Freq. it covers. The selections are : 5180 to 5320 in 20 meg increments. 5745 to 5805 in 20 meg increments but it also has: 5500 to 5680 in 20 meg increments. Is this unlicensed spectrum? I thought 5400 was, but didn't think 5500 to 5680 was. Thanks, Tim Kerns CV-Access, Inc. - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Ruckus works great for this. Hit me offlist if you want more information. Honestly though... as a CLEC... shouldn't you be looking at VDSL instead of wireless? The Moto/TuT systems stuff isn't that bad price wise. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yette Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:17 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
That's why Ruckus blows away anything else. Beamforming on a packet by packet basis. Put the noise in the nulls :-D Easy to do with 4000+ antenna patterns in one AP. Price wise... the G units are $300ish... so compared to any other commercial grade wi-fi solution (by that I mean controller based... which I think would be a must... easy to manage if you have hundreds of AP's)... Ruckus comes out on top in my book (but admittedly I am blinded by the cool geek factor :-D Also, Flexmaster allows you to manage multiple controllers... so you could literally manage everything from one place. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:00 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings I agree to that. For what you are doing, the Mikrotik would be a no brainer to decide on. But that that, he's looking to install indoors with many apartments. All the cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby monitors, wireless routers, PlayStations, Wii consoles and the like all about as close as one could stand. Oh, and dunno the location but I've seen way too many of these apartment complexes where each and every balcony has a DirecTV dish hung off it. A huge wall of DirecTV bouncing all over. With all this RF concentrated in such a small place, what band should they be looking at as well as antenna choice. I think THAT would be hard part to see what would work reliably before sinking cash into the accessories for that MT board. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Jeff Yette wrote: To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. If you're willing to roll your own, Mikrotik RouterOS has built-in hotspot functionality that can easily be configured to talk to your RADIUS server of choice. The ugly-but-functional version can probably be going in an hour; you'll want to make your own pretty login page and do some other cosmetic tweaks, but those aren't too difficult either. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Which also means you're going to have to compete with Wi-Fi that the cable customers will install. If you go wireless... Ruckus will help with that problem. Also you can authenticate with LDAP, not just Radius or Active Directory Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yette Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings The dmarks are trypically in the basements. We could do the DSLAM thing and we have consider some 8 porters on ebay for $550. Ethernet over power line won't work because each apartment is on a separate meter. We set up some linksys wireless routers (SOHO flavor) and run than as APs back to a soekris router on our side where we can force the user through a portal page (acceptable use) ... this part we can do easily. It's the authenticated user management portion that is tough. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Mikem...@aweiowa.com wrote: Where is the telephone demark. Access? You're a CLEC, put a small DSLAM in there; Zhone? Or consider Ethernet over power line. Apartment complexes of any size can get really ugly with RF in a hurry. Wireless absolutely? I don't know about the Meraki hardware mentioned, but seem to remember they phone home to a central server, but a mesh system could work. At 01:16 PM 8/20/2009, you wrote: Hi All - I've looked through several of the archives and wasn't finding an answer quickly, but I will apologize if this has been discussed before. Quick history, we are a facilities-based CLEC and provide phone and broadband internet over a dedicated fiber-optic network. Through out our service area (three small business communities) are many apartment buildings. It is easy for us to provide phone service to those units, but Internet is another story as the buildings are not wired for Internet. The cost of pulling wire is too expensive and too time consuming. We are looking for a way to place centrally located access points/wireless routers in these apartments to connect the tenants. Easy enough if we wanted a wide-open connection - but the tough part comes in trying to manager user accounts. We need away that would present a log-in page, and then upon entering valid credentials authenticated back against something like a radius service, they would gain access to the internet. To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. Thanks for listening Jeff Yette Sales Engineer Slic Network Solutions (www.slic.com) -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings
Besides the Meter issue... its also a shared stream. So you get 10Mb across the whole building to share with all of your customers. That might be an issue, might not be. I thought BPL was dead ;-D I'd personally still vote for VDSL though Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Then I'd go with the Broadband over power line. Could also be a revenue stream if you can lease the converter and a router the end user. Easy to install. Plugs right into any electrical outlet in the apartment. No need to worry about sharing Time Warner's cable, the electrical is part of the building! Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yette Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings The Mikrotik might be the solution. No DirectTV - we are in Time Warner territory so we competing in space where the apartments are wired with Coax that TW owns. On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree to that. For what you are doing, the Mikrotik would be a no brainer to decide on. But that that, he's looking to install indoors with many apartments. All the cordless phones, microwave ovens, baby monitors, wireless routers, PlayStations, Wii consoles and the like all about as close as one could stand. Oh, and dunno the location but I've seen way too many of these apartment complexes where each and every balcony has a DirecTV dish hung off it. A huge wall of DirecTV bouncing all over. With all this RF concentrated in such a small place, what band should they be looking at as well as antenna choice. I think THAT would be hard part to see what would work reliably before sinking cash into the accessories for that MT board. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apartment Buildings Jeff Yette wrote: To clarify, we are not looking for a hosted application, but more of a home-grown solution. We have all of the components for billing, which will automatically create a radius account and e-mail, we have online billing and web-mail - the only part is the is missing is the web authentication piece. If you're willing to roll your own, Mikrotik RouterOS has built-in hotspot functionality that can easily be configured to talk to your RADIUS server of choice. The ugly-but-functional version can probably be going in an hour; you'll want to make your own pretty login page and do some other cosmetic tweaks, but those aren't too difficult either. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion equipment needed
Canopy :-D Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Joe Miller Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion equipment needed No I haven't...Any other suggestions on another type of radio that will do 5.3 Ghz PTMP? - Original Message From: Jeremy Parr jeremyp...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:39:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion equipment needed 2009/8/26 Joe Miller joe.mil...@dslbyair.com: Does anyone know of an Alvarion distributor in the states that carries PTMP radios? Mainly looking for the EZ line. Have you read the release notes for the EZ products? Sounds pretty half baked at this time. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
