[WISPA] Mikrotik consultant/help
I want to run RouterOS on an x86 machine between a satellite internet connection and a small wireless network (about 20 users) so that I can give one group of users more bandwidth and another group of users less bandwidth. It's also important that the bandwidth usage within a group be distributed fairly. Can anyone recommend a Mikrotik consultant for a small job like this? Does anyone have anything that would do this which I could cut and paste? Thanks! Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Where can I buy a MT RouterOS level 4 license for x86 (now!)
My 24 hours is expiring and I don't want to pull this unit down. Mikrotik's site wants me to authorize my credit card, a process I've begun but my credit card company won't post the transaction for a few days. Can anyone sell me a level 4 license for an x86 machine now? Thanks! Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Long 5Ghz link over water
Is going to circular polarization an option? Greg On Oct 28, 2009, at 8:50 AM, Jeremy Parr wrote: I have a 23 mile link completely over water that I cannot get stable. One end is approx 200ft AGL, 220ft ASL, the other end is 50' AGL, 90' ASL. Antennas are V-Pol 29dbi grids, radios are R5H cards. I have tried the link at both 5.2, and 5.8, but it still fluctuates dramatically. When the antennas were installed and configured for a 5Mhz channel, I was able to aim them to -55, but still they go down during parts of the day. I have a second antenna hung on the 200ft end, at about 185', connected to a second R5H set up for H-Pol which I am going to light up as soon as I get the other end mounted H-Pol. Any other suggestions for getting this stable? I also notice some strangeness when doing bandwidth tests. I can get a steady 8mbps downstream from the 200ft end to the 50' end, but from the 50' end to the 200ft end, the transfer starts at about 6mbps, then slowly drops down to 0, and the client radio (the 50' end) drops. My assumption is multipath reflections off of the water at the lower end, but I cannot be sure. The water is tidal, with as much as a 3' change from low to high, and is connected to the ocean, so there can be considerable chop and wave action on the surface. graph_image.php.png WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NAT issue with Hotmail/Yahoo/Google
I see the same issue. I'm on a satellite internet connection shared with about 10 people. The satellite carrier does their own NAT and we all appear as the same IP to the internet. The only fix for me is to turn on my VPN. It's not a NAT-failure or NAT mis-configuration issue, but it most certainly is caused by the very nature of NAT - the traffic of many being seen as the traffic of one IP address due to NAT. So nat still is the root cause. Greg On Oct 28, 2009, at 1:11 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: We are having a problem with certain sites that are rejecting our customers because they say the IP address has sent too much traffic over the last 24 hours. This is a problem, as 98% of our customers are behind a single NATted IP address. I am just changing the IP address of the NAT server every 12 hours now, but am looking for a better solution. Anyone have any similar issues? Matt Larsen vistabeam.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
Some remote control devices I've been looking at for remote controlling our generator: http://www.controlbyweb.com/webrelay-quad/ (this one comes in a commercial model that accepts 9-28vdc power) Greg On Oct 29, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Chuck Profito wrote: Or do it your way and add this to the mix, and to switch radios you don't have to go to the tower. http://www.dinrelay.com this unit saves the trip up the hill. Small one $125 with auto reboot, 16 port $295 All of our towers have these and a few repeaters. Now with auto reboot on most of the radio boards, it's mostly used to boot routers, switches, or hung boards. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:29 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment Based at least partly on what I've learned on this list: An enclosure can contain radios from 2 different bands with no issues. A dual band sector has less wind loading than one of each. Radios and enclosures have gotten cheaper. It really wouldn't be any more complicated than having a spare radio on the tower, if implemented properly. If an entire router or power supply failed there would be an entirely redundant unit ready to go into service. So there would be no single unit. If either radio, or either router died, the drone would take over. Each antenna would have a redundant radio in a DIFFERENT enclosure. Mike At 09:07 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote: I think the concept of combining functionality into single units and fault tolerant redundancy are mutually exclusive. I believe more people have had problems with more complicated installs than more simple ones vs. failed components on simple installs. I think a well planned combination of both including redundancy where it counts would be best IMO Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:05 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment I have been thinking of putting together a fully fault tolerant tower setup. 1 antenna; two radios. Separate CAT5, separate box. If one radio failed, the other would come on-line. The replacement climb would be taken out of the EMERGENCY category. A complete system would be a 3) 5.8 120 degree sectors, plus 3) 2.4 (or 900 MHz) degree sectors. 6) small waterproof enclosures would contain a router and one of each radio. I know on some of the MT router boards there is a fan header that could be used to energize a relay. Microwave relays are readily available and have acceptable insertion loss. Would a stripline divider like Cameron suggested in another thread be the answer instead? Passive solutions are always better. If the antennas were dual-band, wind load on a tower could really be lowered. Besides redundancy, consolidating wind load would be my goal. Has anybody done anything like this? Can't seem to find any on the net. Am I mad? Mike --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment
Yeah but it goes to 28vdc vs 24vdc. Those 4 extra volts might make a difference for folks doing 24 volt solar. On Oct 29, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Chuck Profito wrote: Their $135 against $119. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 8:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment Some remote control devices I've been looking at for remote controlling our generator: http://www.controlbyweb.com/webrelay-quad/ (this one comes in a commercial model that accepts 9-28vdc power) Greg On Oct 29, 2009, at 10:50 PM, Chuck Profito wrote: Or do it your way and add this to the mix, and to switch radios you don't have to go to the tower. http://www.dinrelay.com this unit saves the trip up the hill. Small one $125 with auto reboot, 16 port $295 All of our towers have these and a few repeaters. Now with auto reboot on most of the radio boards, it's mostly used to boot routers, switches, or hung boards. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 7:29 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment Based at least partly on what I've learned on this list: An enclosure can contain radios from 2 different bands with no issues. A dual band sector has less wind loading than one of each. Radios and enclosures have gotten cheaper. It really wouldn't be any more complicated than having a spare radio on the tower, if implemented properly. If an entire router or power supply failed there would be an entirely redundant unit ready to go into service. So there would be no single unit. If either radio, or either router died, the drone would take over. Each antenna would have a redundant radio in a DIFFERENT enclosure. Mike At 09:07 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote: I think the concept of combining functionality into single units and fault tolerant redundancy are mutually exclusive. I believe more people have had problems with more complicated installs than more simple ones vs. failed components on simple installs. I think a well planned combination of both including redundancy where it counts would be best IMO Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:05 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Fault tolerant tower deployment I have been thinking of putting together a fully fault tolerant tower setup. 1 antenna; two radios. Separate CAT5, separate box. If one radio failed, the other would come on-line. The replacement climb would be taken out of the EMERGENCY category. A complete system would be a 3) 5.8 120 degree sectors, plus 3) 2.4 (or 900 MHz) degree sectors. 6) small waterproof enclosures would contain a router and one of each radio. I know on some of the MT router boards there is a fan header that could be used to energize a relay. Microwave relays are readily available and have acceptable insertion loss. Would a stripline divider like Cameron suggested in another thread be the answer instead? Passive solutions are always better. If the antennas were dual-band, wind load on a tower could really be lowered. Besides redundancy, consolidating wind load would be my goal. Has anybody done anything like this? Can't seem to find any on the net. Am I mad? Mike --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] Backhaul Questions
Doesn't it stand for effective isotropic radiated power? Isn't your EIRP the same no matter what receive antenna is on the other end? I get your point, to have a sufficiently strong signal at the distant receiver you could lower the transmit power and make up for it with a more effective receive antenna. Respectfully, Greg On Nov 1, 2009, at 11:24 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Yeah. People all too often forget that eirp is a RECEIVE number not a TRANSMIT number. All it takes is big, big ears and you can hear the other end from a very long ways away. Makes for much less noise in the area too. I hate the trend toward high power radios with low power antennas. You guys do realize that 2.4, 900 and 5.8 gig bands limit you to a 6 (that's S-I-X) dB antenna if you use a 1 watt (30 dB) radio? Base station especially. For CPE you can use higher gain cpe antennas on 5 gig and still be OK within the rules. But all of these stupid, noisy, wasteful, cpe systems with 1 watt radios and 19dB panels make a mess of your networks. (and mine) marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Backhaul Questions 30 dB EIRP with a 44 DBi antenna on each side over 73 miles produces -75 signal. I'll let him say what he did to make it work, but it's certainly possible. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Bret Clark Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 11:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Backhaul Questions Man...what is the EIRP on these links that people are posting high bit rates? As someone else stated, gotta wonder if the FCC won't start getting suspicious at some point. Travis Johnson wrote: 73 miles... and I get 28Mbps total (14Mbps each direction) using a 20mhz channel. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Travis is getting 28 megs on a really long backhaul - like 58 miles? You will not see 30. On 10/31/09, Eric Rogers ecrog...@precisionds.com wrote: Ok guys...Looking for both Mikrotik experience and others. We currently have a Mikrotik backhaul between each of our towers using NStreme and we have been extremely happy with the performance. We recently upgraded a tower because we were hitting 15M or so during peak times and was afraid it couldn't handle much more. We upgraded that backhaul to a Motorola PTP for future capacity. The questions: MT Gurus: Each backhaul ranges in distance, each ranges from 3 miles (3 backhauls) and the rest are about 12 miles (5 backhauls). Since we have been using Mikrotik, I have reliably seen up to 10 Meg, and I am afraid 15 Meg is pushing the envelope on a 20 MHz channel. How much capacity can I reliably push on a 20 MHz channel using NStreme? Other Gurus: I understand the following are loaded questions, but budget is around $1000-3000 range and the capacity needs to be around the 60Meg mark (30 each way or without a defined 1:1 guarantee, capability to flex and be able to push 30M each way). If I start upgrading to larger backhauls on busy links, what type of equipment should I look at? What can support VoIP? Anything that GPS times for frequency reuse? Anything work in the 5.4GHz range at a 12 mile distance? Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] Backhaul Questions
Excellent advise. There's a maxim in the amateur radio community (from the ARRL website) At all times, transmitter power must be the minimum necessary to carry out the desired communications, for the same reasons. Greg On Nov 1, 2009, at 4:54 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: EIRP is the TRANSMIT total of BOTH the radio and the antenna gain. So with a 4 watt, 36dB limit at the ap, you can't legally run a 1 watt (30 dB) radio into a 13dB sector. You can only transmit 36-13 or 23 dB (about a quarter watt) with a config like this. And it doesn't take that much power at the base station to do amazing things anyway. I have systems with a total of 28dB (about a half watt) that will deliver 2 to 3 megs to a client 15 to 16 miles away. Point to Multipoint. High powered base stations just muck up the airways anyway. The more power you put out at the AP the more likely you are to have a system that's always fighting your other ap's. Anyway, the question below was what receive level was there to get such good throughput at such a long distance. That's a function of TX power but ALSO antenna gain. I try to build my systems to use antenna gain at the CPE for power vs. high power radios. I wish I had a dollar for every high power system we have talked people into swapping out with low powered systems over the years. Reliability and performance always goes up. I can think of NO exceptions to that rule. marlon - Original Message - From: os10ru...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Backhaul Questions Doesn't it stand for effective isotropic radiated power? Isn't your EIRP the same no matter what receive antenna is on the other end? I get your point, to have a sufficiently strong signal at the distant receiver you could lower the transmit power and make up for it with a more effective receive antenna. Respectfully, Greg On Nov 1, 2009, at 11:24 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Yeah. People all too often forget that eirp is a RECEIVE number not a TRANSMIT number. All it takes is big, big ears and you can hear the other end from a very long ways away. Makes for much less noise in the area too. I hate the trend toward high power radios with low power antennas. You guys do realize that 2.4, 900 and 5.8 gig bands limit you to a 6 (that's S-I-X) dB antenna if you use a 1 watt (30 dB) radio? Base station especially. For CPE you can use higher gain cpe antennas on 5 gig and still be OK within the rules. But all of these stupid, noisy, wasteful, cpe systems with 1 watt radios and 19dB panels make a mess of your networks. (and mine) marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Backhaul Questions 30 dB EIRP with a 44 DBi antenna on each side over 73 miles produces -75 signal. I'll let him say what he did to make it work, but it's certainly possible. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Bret Clark Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 11:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Backhaul Questions Man...what is the EIRP on these links that people are posting high bit rates? As someone else stated, gotta wonder if the FCC won't start getting suspicious at some point. Travis Johnson wrote: 73 miles... and I get 28Mbps total (14Mbps each direction) using a 20mhz channel. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Travis is getting 28 megs on a really long backhaul - like 58 miles? You will not see 30. On 10/31/09, Eric Rogers ecrog...@precisionds.com wrote: Ok guys...Looking for both Mikrotik experience and others. We currently have a Mikrotik backhaul between each of our towers using NStreme and we have been extremely happy with the performance. We recently upgraded a tower because we were hitting 15M or so during peak times and was afraid it couldn't handle much more. We upgraded that backhaul to a Motorola PTP for future capacity. The questions: MT Gurus: Each backhaul ranges in distance, each ranges from 3 miles (3 backhauls) and the rest are about 12 miles (5 backhauls). Since we have been using Mikrotik, I have reliably seen up to 10 Meg, and I am afraid 15 Meg is pushing the envelope on a 20 MHz channel. How much capacity can I reliably push on a 20 MHz channel using NStreme? Other Gurus: I understand the following are loaded questions, but budget is around $1000-3000 range and the capacity needs to be around the 60Meg mark (30 each way or without a defined 1:1 guarantee, capability to flex and be able to push 30M each way). If I start upgrading to larger backhauls on busy links, what type of equipment should I look at? What can support VoIP? Anything
Re: [WISPA] Backhaul Questions
That stops the APs from interfering with each other but there must be some point where when the APs all turn on at once they cause interference for the CPEs if the density between APs is too great. Do you see that in the field? Also, that does nothing for the poor folk who are using the same frequencies without Canopy. Greg On Nov 1, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: The exception to the rule would be Canopy. You can't muck up the airways if every single one of your AP's transmits and receives at the same time. So then power does make a difference because you can go through more trees, longer links, etc. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: EIRP is the TRANSMIT total of BOTH the radio and the antenna gain. So with a 4 watt, 36dB limit at the ap, you can't legally run a 1 watt (30 dB) radio into a 13dB sector. You can only transmit 36-13 or 23 dB (about a quarter watt) with a config like this. And it doesn't take that much power at the base station to do amazing things anyway. I have systems with a total of 28dB (about a half watt) that will deliver 2 to 3 megs to a client 15 to 16 miles away. Point to Multipoint. High powered base stations just muck up the airways anyway. The more power you put out at the AP the more likely you are to have a system that's always fighting your other ap's. Anyway, the question below was what receive level was there to get such good throughput at such a long distance. That's a function of TX power but ALSO antenna gain. I try to build my systems to use antenna gain at the CPE for power vs. high power radios. I wish I had a dollar for every high power system we have talked people into swapping out with low powered systems over the years. Reliability and performance always goes up. I can think of NO exceptions to that rule. marlon - Original Message - From: os10ru...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Backhaul Questions Doesn't it stand for effective isotropic radiated power? Isn't your EIRP the same no matter what receive antenna is on the other end? I get your point, to have a sufficiently strong signal at the distant receiver you could lower the transmit power and make up for it with a more effective receive antenna. Respectfully, Greg On Nov 1, 2009, at 11:24 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Yeah. People all too often forget that eirp is a RECEIVE number not a TRANSMIT number. All it takes is big, big ears and you can hear the other end from a very long ways away. Makes for much less noise in the area too. I hate the trend toward high power radios with low power antennas. You guys do realize that 2.4, 900 and 5.8 gig bands limit you to a 6 (that's S-I-X) dB antenna if you use a 1 watt (30 dB) radio? Base station especially. For CPE you can use higher gain cpe antennas on 5 gig and still be OK within the rules. But all of these stupid, noisy, wasteful, cpe systems with 1 watt radios and 19dB panels make a mess of your networks. (and mine) marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Backhaul Questions 30 dB EIRP with a 44 DBi antenna on each side over 73 miles produces -75 signal. I'll let him say what he did to make it work, but it's certainly possible. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Bret Clark Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 11:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Backhaul Questions Man...what is the EIRP on these links that people are posting high bit rates? As someone else stated, gotta wonder if the FCC won't start getting suspicious at some point. Travis Johnson wrote: 73 miles... and I get 28Mbps total (14Mbps each direction) using a 20mhz channel. Travis Josh Luthman wrote: Travis is getting 28 megs on a really long backhaul - like 58 miles? You will not see 30. On 10/31/09, Eric Rogers ecrog...@precisionds.com wrote: Ok guys...Looking for both Mikrotik experience and others. We currently have a Mikrotik backhaul between each of our towers using NStreme and we have been extremely happy with the performance. We recently upgraded a tower because we were hitting 15M or so during peak times and was afraid it couldn't handle much more. We upgraded that backhaul to a Motorola PTP for future capacity. The questions: MT Gurus: Each backhaul ranges in distance, each ranges from 3 miles (3 backhauls) and the rest are about 12 miles (5 backhauls). Since we have been using Mikrotik, I have reliably seen up to 10 Meg, and I am afraid 15 Meg is pushing the envelope on a 20 MHz channel. How much capacity can I reliably push on a 20 MHz channel
Re: [WISPA] powering finicky mikrotiks on 24v solar - $2.75 solution
Be careful using those diodes at sites where you're colocated with a high powered transmitter. The diodes can do some weird stuff (rectification, mixing) and could become a hidden source of interference/noise. Greg On Nov 2, 2009, at 7:08 PM, Mike wrote: Fine business using the diodes to drop the voltage. Many silicon diodes will show a higher voltage drop as the current increases. Depending on the circuit you were measuring, one with higher current would show a larger drop. That is an innovative use of diode voltage drop. Mike At 04:57 PM 11/2/2009, you wrote: I came up with a solution for this problem for now. I use West Mountain Radio Rigrunners ( http://www.powerwerx.com/west-mountain-radio/rigrunner-4005.html ) to distribute my voltage and protect my devices on solar installs. Makes for a nice clean, easy-to maintain and troubleshoot install. They go up to 38 volt, even though they don't say that in the descriptions. I bought some radio shack 276-1143 diodes - 200V 3 amp ( http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062578 ). I crimped a red Anderson powerpole connector ( http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpoles/powerpole-sets/15-amp-red-black-anderson-powerpole-sets.html ) on each end of the diode after shortening the leads a little bit. Then I put that inline between my Rigrunner positive terminal and the cable that feeds my Mikrotik device. I label the end that goes to the Rigrunner - the side of the diode without the white stripe - with yellow tape so I don't end up putting it in backwards later. I use one for each device. Drops the voltage around .6 - .8 volts, enough to give me the margin I need on my radios. On routerboards that are very close by (no voltage drop due to ethernet cable length) I put two of these devices in line to drop it 1.2v. I'm cleaning out the local radioshacks and building a bunch of these for future use. Randy -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
What are you guys doing who have some/all of your network nat'ed? Seems like then more of the burden might fall on you. GReg On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Adam Goodman wrote: To me the question is how much work should I invest in order to protect their copyright interest. It makes sense to me that since they have no way of knowing the identity of the customer and all they really have is an ip address. That the ISP would have to connect the copyright owner to the customer. Billing them for the research work sounds like good idea to me. That way I am not preventing them from contacting the perpetrating party, and I also get paid for my time. -Adam On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I agree. I'm not the sheriff, I'm just the messenger boy. I pass it along and forget it. Not my job. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement Notify customer, give a warning, make not on account, disregard studio letter. Wait for subpoena before giving the studios any information. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Goodman Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement We have received an email from our provider with a complaint from Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation about a download movie from BitTorrent. They demand we notify the customer and make sure the customer is aware of our AUP. Has anyone received a notice like this and how did you handle the case. Are you following DMCA protocol, or taking another path? Thank you, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DMCA - copyright infringement
But they also keep records of who had which IP when. Greg On Nov 10, 2009, at 1:17 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Keep in mind, too, that IPs are dynamic with most ISPs. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 100Mbps over 10 miles
Can you tell me which 3 fields those are? Is there anyplace that you know of (wiki, manual) which describes the process? Thanks! Greg On Nov 14, 2009, at 1:57 AM, Jayson Baker wrote: Don't know what else to tell you. I always find myself spending a lot of time defending the equipment we use, and how well it works for us. Especially on the Moto list (which can be expected, since we don't use Moto - haha). Anyway... it works for us, and we're happy. I'm sorry you don't believe what I'm telling you, but I've also seen many people on the MT forum posting very similar (and even better) results. I can tell you there are 3 very, very, very critical fields which must be tweaked. Before those settings, you do get about 1/2 of what we see. Hell, we've even pushed 30Mbps half-duplex through a pair of 133's about 4 miles apart. It can be done, and we're doing it. That's all I have to say about that. On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Which means we'd see 60 megs on 40 mhz links - you're able to get 50% more... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 1:03 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: I said 40MHz. On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: You must have some secret that neither Butch nor I have - I've not seen any more then 30 megs on a single 20mhz wireless link. On 11/14/09, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Why 30 surprise you? We have a very old Nstreme-Dual link going about 1 mile and it has been getting 90Mbps w/ 1ms latency for YEARS. 90% of the problem with MikroTik is that people have no idea how to use it. You don't just plug it in and go. We spent about 3 years learning, tweaking, deploying and testing. Anyway, to answer your question, yes the 1mile 180Mbps link is using R52N card, and Nstreme. On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: With the 180meg 1 mile link - I assume that is also r5(2)n? Are you doing N or nstreme? I'm surprised to see anything 30 megs when it comes to Mikrotik. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Yes, 40MHz. We have a pair of RB333's that go about 1 mile, and get around 180Mbps. Too bad they only have 100Mbps Ethernet. On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: 120 megs through one pair of r52n?! I'm assuming this is 40mhz? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: I think we get something in the range of 120Mbps through a pair of MikroTik 411's and R52N wireless cards with 3' PacWireless dishes at 12 miles. 120Mbps on the wireless. Those boards only have 100Mbps Ethernet, so that's a limiting factor. Total cost: $1000 If you're concerned that MT isn't reliable enough, spend $2000 and put up 2 completely diverse links. Though, we have some MT's that have been in service since 2004 and are still cranking away without issue. On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 5:57 PM, my_em...@webjogger.net my_em...@webjogger.net wrote: Looking to setup a 100Mbps or more link over 10 miles distance. Anyone have comments about what brand they think is good and reliable? It can be either licensed or unlicensed. So far I'm looking at Exalt, Trango, and Dragonwave, but do know which to choose. Thanks, -- Jon Roux Webjogger Internet Services http://www.webjogger.net 845.757.4000 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Anyone else wish for this?
Something like the MT RB750 but with 802.11n. Top it off with an easier web interface which would make basic setup as a home router/AP simple for the uninitiated. I'm thinking something of quality with the power of a RouterOS level 4 license to compete with the crappy dlink/linksys/netgear consumer grade router/APs. With the current MT lineup if one does this piecemeal they have to start with a routerboard with way more ethernet ports and three wireless card slots and you still have to add the case, power supply, wireless card and antennas and it ends up being pricey. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Anyone else wish for this?
I think the MT RB750 could sell for less, but I suspect the problem is volume. I think they could add wireless and compete with the consumer grade junk if the price was reasonable and if MT was a bit more of a household name. It would take an easy and intuitive web interface, something for doing the basic setup which is as easy to use as the web interface the consumer grade stuff. For going further you'd need WinBox. A lot of people read the speed tests of wireless routers and base their decisions on that. People realize that wireless routers with the same wireless technology achieve vastly different speeds in actual testing. I think something from MT would beat a $22 Netgear box hands down on speed. Factor in the powerful bandwidth management and other features the MT box has and it would be a winner for the folks that look at more than price. The super cheap consumer stuff scares me. Factor out the price of retail markup, transportation, packaging, advertising and what are you really getting for your money in terms of hardware? Greg On Nov 15, 2009, at 11:37 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: It's still going to be more expensive than the Linksys and Netgear solutions. They are charging $39 now for a basic 5 port box. If you add wireless, it will be $59 or $69. We are buying Netgear routers for $22 right now with 802.11g in them and they work great. Travis Microserv os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Something like the MT RB750 but with 802.11n. Top it off with an easier web interface which would make basic setup as a home router/AP simple for the uninitiated. I'm thinking something of quality with the power of a RouterOS level 4 license to compete with the crappy dlink/linksys/netgear consumer grade router/APs. With the current MT lineup if one does this piecemeal they have to start with a routerboard with way more ethernet ports and three wireless card slots and you still have to add the case, power supply, wireless card and antennas and it ends up being pricey. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Low gain 2.4GHz vertical omni recommendation for use with a bullet M
I'd like to know what folks recommend for a plain jane low gain 2.4GHz omni. No downtilt. Gain around 7-13 dbi but something solid for outdoor use. This is to use with a Bullet2HP M. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Low gain 2.4GHz vertical omni recommendation for use with a bullet M
Thanks! I just bought one a week ago to give it a try but it hasn't arrived yet. Greg On Nov 19, 2009, at 5:52 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I've several 9dbi Pac ones out there. I like how the bottom of the antenna has a good 3' metal piece to put two hose clamps. Weather has never effected any one of my omnis - my install or anyone else - in 2 or 3 years. CTI had a special on them recently, just in time for a campgrounds hotspot. May want to see if they're still on sale. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 5:49 PM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to know what folks recommend for a plain jane low gain 2.4GHz omni. No downtilt. Gain around 7-13 dbi but something solid for outdoor use. This is to use with a Bullet2HP M. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors
Coax-seal On Nov 19, 2009, at 6:42 PM, AJ wrote: CANUSA adhesive shrink tubing is your friend :) On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 4:41 PM, lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: No 400 connector from any of the manufacturers is weatherproof by itself. You need to weatherproof all of your connections. If they are not getting wet you are lucky. Plain and simple. Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:20:52 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors I've run out of these, and none of the vendors I use commonly carry them. Anyone out west have these? Yeah, I know, it costs more to buy two of these than a whole pre-built 10 foot cable, but every danged pre-built I buy has water issues. We have never had to seal any of the cables we built ourselves, and none of them have ever leaked (except when someone who'll forever remain nameless forgot to tighten the cable...), but I have no luck at all with the pre-made I've bought from multiple places. Our temporary site needed to go up in a real hurry, so I bought a whole pile of parts and cables, and most of them have had issues. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need a new AP
UBNT says it will: I received these two replies to that question (sort of, my question was a Bullet2M HP and a PowerStation2 connecting): NUMBER1 Hello, yes the TDMA can be disabled. Our full 802.11b/g support is coming in V5.1 of our firmware. Thanks, _ Michael Ford Support and Applications Manager Support Line - (408)942-1153 Main Line - (408)942-3085 Email: supp...@ubnt.com (Live Chat 10am-5pm PST) Skype: ubiquiti_support NUMBER2 Hello, All of our M series can currently disable TDMA. Thanks, _ Michael Ford Support and Applications Manager Support Line - (408)942-1153 Main Line - (408)942-3085 Email: supp...@ubnt.com (Live Chat 10am-5pm PST) Skype: ubiquiti_support On Nov 20, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Scottie Arnett wrote: So a BulletM2HP will not work with a Nano NS2? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: AJ aj.grant...@gmail.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:21:02 -0700 Hahaha Gmail ads came up with this firmware as I was reading this thread: http://www.fireserve.com/products/ubiquiti/bullet-m-firmware.php chop *Adds 802.11-compatible encryption modes *The stock Ubiquiti firmware only supports WPA-AES encryption. Our firmware adds support for 64-bit and 128-bit WEP, WPA-TKIP and WPA2-TKIP. /chop Pretty spendy for just a single unit... On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: In that case, use a MikroTik RB411R. Integrated radio, and MT can do various encryptions you need. Sorry, I overlooked that part of the request. On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:16 PM, pat p...@inlandnet.com wrote: Bullet M2's won't do WEP until the release of firmware version 5.1 which has been in just a couple of weeks for at least the last two months. Jayson Baker wrote: UBNT Bullet M2? On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 2:59 PM, pat p...@inlandnet.com wrote: I have one small group on an old Cisco Aironet 350, which only does 802.11b. 1) I want to have at least a b/g mix, n capable a bonus. 2) Must support WEP encryption, but be able to handle a mix of WEP and WPA simultaneously. (WEP for legacy clients that I haven't upgraded) 3) Must play nice with Tranzeo CPQ and CPE200. You input is helpful. TIA, Pat WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing (time of use billing)
Is he completely cut off or restricted to only certain sites/email? Hughes meters during business hours and if one goes over budget then they throttle you to a crawl during the following business hours period. The meter is off during the wee hours. Greg On Nov 21, 2009, at 9:16 AM, Robert West wrote: I switched a farmer to us from Agristar the other night. Satellite internet His number one gripe was that they metered him and once they went over a certain limit they were blocked for 24 hours as punishment. Man, that's severe! Imagine turning a customer totally off for 24 hours!!! Come on, at the extreme just throttle them down, shesh! He mentioned that they allowed full access from something like midnight to whatever but he laughed that off as no one is ever up those times. Most torrent clients have a schedule you can set, I think, allowing full access for P2P during those times. Shouldn't be cumbersome for torrent freaks. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 7:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing (time of use billing) It seems to me a long time ago (back in the dial up days), we restricted people from 8 AM to midnight but let them go full out and abuse the heck out of their connection if they so desired from midnight to 8 AM. We didn't *bill* differently. Or maybe we just wanted to. I know we *told* customers that's what we did ;-). Chuck On Nov 15, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Tim Sylvester wrote: Talking about electric billing in this thread made me think of time-of-use billing and tiered billing rate schedules for electrical usage. PGE has multiple rate schedules. The standard consumer rate schedule starts at $0.115 per KWh and grows to $0.44 per KWh for usage over 300% of the baseline. They also have time-of-use billing schedules which start at $0.087 per KWh during off-peak times in the summer and move up to $0.297 per KWh during peak times. Has anyone considered tiered usage billing or time-of-use billing for Internet access? It would be complicated to implement and also difficult to explain to customers. If Bit Torrent users are the biggest consumers of bandwidth on a network you could benefit by encouraging them to use the network during off hours. Tim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question
Mesh with 2.4GHz APs for clients and 5.8GHz WDS backhaul give much better throughput. http://www.wiligear.com/?q=products/mesh/mesh-mini Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Robert West wrote: I've done plenty of WDS AP's in hotels. Quick and easy. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 5:01 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question I would prefer copper to link indoor APs. If that won't work due to either technical issues or the customer just plain doesn't want holes drilled, is WDS pretty much the only financially viable alternative that properly bridges the network? Could do a boat-load of PtP links, but that'd be silly. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question
Yeah, I saw that, many times. Are there any other reviews? I suspect the good performance over and above a regular high quality AP is that it's dual band mesh. The Ruckus gear is dual band mesh right? I get a lot of hits when I Google ruckus dual band mesh mediaflex but the Ruckus site isn't totally clear. Could a little more directional gain really make that much difference? I suspect head to head with other dual band mesh gear the Ruckus gear would prove to be similar in performance. It needs to be an apples to apples comparison. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:31 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/beamforming-wifi-ruckus,2390.html - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 4:26 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question Does Ruckus state their antenna gain anywhere? If their beam forming gain isn't all that much higher than the competition's omni gain then the performance couldn't be all that much better unless there's noise or multi path issues. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:13 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: Depends on your definition of economical :-) Ruckus has meshing built in to all of their AP's... plus with the antenna array built into these babies you can usually get by with deploying 1/2 as many AP's... so it can end up costing less than a roll your own Mikrotik system Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:01 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question I would prefer copper to link indoor APs. If that won't work due to either technical issues or the customer just plain doesn't want holes drilled, is WDS pretty much the only financially viable alternative that properly bridges the network? Could do a boat-load of PtP links, but that'd be silly. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice?
Running WDS bridged? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Hey All, I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) with some Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 Bullet2HP. One thing that was surprising was the performance degradation when switching from 20MHz to 10MHz/5MHz. Our tests were Raw Bandwidth Tests(AirOS), Video (VLC UDP Stream), Voice (Trixbox G711 Voice Call), and MTR (Latency, Jitter) I still have data to collect and prepare a report for the tech team, but we did notice that when we switched to 10 or 5MHz bandwidth our voice calls was greatly degraded. Only one way; from Fixed to Mobile I could hear the Fixed station easily. Mobile to Fixed the voice was choppy. We started to get packet loss massive jitter on 10MHz, just going back to 20MHz made the links stable. Fixed Station: On a mountain side - HPOL 9dBI Omni Directional with a Bullet2HP @400mW Mobile Station: 8km away near large body of water - Bullet2HP @400mW w/ 24dBi Directional (HPOL Alignment) -70dbm RSSI Any ideas? We are planning on using 10MHz channels H-Pol to combat any future spectrum pollution and voice calls over this network is expected. -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question
Seems hard to believe that if I took a 10dbi antenna which isn't all that much gain and put it on my AP and pointed it at my client I'd see that much of a gain. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:43 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: There are over 4,000 antenna patterns, with the relative gain of the best ones up to 10dBi... the magic is though that the AP also uses the patterns they transmit on to receive on... so the gain is bi-directional instead of blasting the signal out but not having any mechanism in place for the client to be heard. The AP can also selectively put noise in up to a -15dBi null... which can be helpful. I would be curious in what indoor environment there isn't multi-path :-) Anyways, if you have doubts... Tom's Hardware (which is as unbiased as it gets) did some testing against Cisco and Aruba. If you want to see the power of beamforming, I'd encourage you to read this article all the way through. It gives a very detailed explanation of the magic behind Ruckus. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/beamforming-wifi-ruckus,2390.html Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question Does Ruckus state their antenna gain anywhere? If their beam forming gain isn't all that much higher than the competition's omni gain then the performance couldn't be all that much better unless there's noise or multi path issues. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:13 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: Depends on your definition of economical :-) Ruckus has meshing built in to all of their AP's... plus with the antenna array built into these babies you can usually get by with deploying 1/2 as many AP's... so it can end up costing less than a roll your own Mikrotik system Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:01 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question I would prefer copper to link indoor APs. If that won't work due to either technical issues or the customer just plain doesn't want holes drilled, is WDS pretty much the only financially viable alternative that properly bridges the network? Could do a boat-load of PtP links, but that'd be silly. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice?
Just for kicks I'd try WDS bridged. Do you have control from where you're at now? Is the equipment still set up? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: @Travis Johnson - Yes Upgraded to newest firmware for the two units @os10rules - Nope, Fixed was simple AP and Mobile was Station modes os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Running WDS bridged? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Hey All, I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) with some Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 Bullet2HP. One thing that was surprising was the performance degradation when switching from 20MHz to 10MHz/5MHz. Our tests were Raw Bandwidth Tests(AirOS), Video (VLC UDP Stream), Voice (Trixbox G711 Voice Call), and MTR (Latency, Jitter) I still have data to collect and prepare a report for the tech team, but we did notice that when we switched to 10 or 5MHz bandwidth our voice calls was greatly degraded. Only one way; from Fixed to Mobile I could hear the Fixed station easily. Mobile to Fixed the voice was choppy. We started to get packet loss massive jitter on 10MHz, just going back to 20MHz made the links stable. Fixed Station: On a mountain side - HPOL 9dBI Omni Directional with a Bullet2HP @400mW Mobile Station: 8km away near large body of water - Bullet2HP @400mW w/ 24dBi Directional (HPOL Alignment) -70dbm RSSI Any ideas? We are planning on using 10MHz channels H-Pol to combat any future spectrum pollution and voice calls over this network is expected. -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice?
Well next time definitely bring more food! Beef jerky and granola bars. In my testing the narrower channels just made things slower. I was testing in a pristine area where there was no other 5.8GHz going on. From what I hear if the environment had been polluted performance might have actually gone up with the narrower channels. From what I've read narrower channels doesn't effect packet size or transport. But switching to WDS bridged does. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:15 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Its not in the field, but it is sitting here in my bedroom looking cool :). I was thinking that using the 10/5MHz bandwidth required one to setup something else. I'm not that familiar with the use of half/quarter rate channels and how that affects the frame transport/packet size etc,. I wonder if it was environment based rather than 'software/configuration' based. If I get some time this evening I might setup the gear again for more focused testing (Testing in the field with volunteers who are cold and hungry dont usually respond well to testing plans). -Israel os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Just for kicks I'd try WDS bridged. Do you have control from where you're at now? Is the equipment still set up? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: @Travis Johnson - Yes Upgraded to newest firmware for the two units @os10rules - Nope, Fixed was simple AP and Mobile was Station modes os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Running WDS bridged? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Hey All, I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) with some Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 Bullet2HP. One thing that was surprising was the performance degradation when switching from 20MHz to 10MHz/5MHz. Our tests were Raw Bandwidth Tests(AirOS), Video (VLC UDP Stream), Voice (Trixbox G711 Voice Call), and MTR (Latency, Jitter) I still have data to collect and prepare a report for the tech team, but we did notice that when we switched to 10 or 5MHz bandwidth our voice calls was greatly degraded. Only one way; from Fixed to Mobile I could hear the Fixed station easily. Mobile to Fixed the voice was choppy. We started to get packet loss massive jitter on 10MHz, just going back to 20MHz made the links stable. Fixed Station: On a mountain side - HPOL 9dBI Omni Directional with a Bullet2HP @400mW Mobile Station: 8km away near large body of water - Bullet2HP @400mW w/ 24dBi Directional (HPOL Alignment) -70dbm RSSI Any ideas? We are planning on using 10MHz channels H-Pol to combat any future spectrum pollution and voice calls over this network is expected. -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question
Does a sector work any better when there's no interference or when there's just a few clients? In a highly urban area like an apartment building that's flooded with microwave ovens, cordless phones etc sure. But what about a house in suburbia where there's no real interference? I guess that Ruckus is the only one doing it makes me question the urgency. Though I have to admit that at one time I was considering deploying their products. I like the concept and I'd love to try them. But I fell prey to the allure of MT and UBNT and once I started deploying that I wanted to stay compatible. I think now my dream machine would be any great hardware (at a good price) that could run RouterOS. I would love to see UBNT and MT get together on some gear. To each is own. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:43 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: No, because it does beamforming. I believe Dan said it can use 4000 different antenna patterns. What's better performing, an omni with a 30 dB radio or say an array of 6 sectors? What about 4000 sectors? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 4:57 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question Yeah, I saw that, many times. Are there any other reviews? I suspect the good performance over and above a regular high quality AP is that it's dual band mesh. The Ruckus gear is dual band mesh right? I get a lot of hits when I Google ruckus dual band mesh mediaflex but the Ruckus site isn't totally clear. Could a little more directional gain really make that much difference? I suspect head to head with other dual band mesh gear the Ruckus gear would prove to be similar in performance. It needs to be an apples to apples comparison. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:31 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/beamforming-wifi-ruckus,2390.html - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 4:26 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question Does Ruckus state their antenna gain anywhere? If their beam forming gain isn't all that much higher than the competition's omni gain then the performance couldn't be all that much better unless there's noise or multi path issues. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:13 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: Depends on your definition of economical :-) Ruckus has meshing built in to all of their AP's... plus with the antenna array built into these babies you can usually get by with deploying 1/2 as many AP's... so it can end up costing less than a roll your own Mikrotik system Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:01 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question I would prefer copper to link indoor APs. If that won't work due to either technical issues or the customer just plain doesn't want holes drilled, is WDS pretty much the only financially viable alternative that properly bridges the network? Could do a boat-load of PtP links, but that'd be silly. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question
Your right, the technology is alluring. Maybe someday Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 8:07 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: Only the 7962 and 7761 are dual-band mesh... the rest is straight 2.4GHz. Mediaflex is their in-home equipment for streaming HD video... only wi-fi manufacturer on the planet that can do that well :-) Metroflex is their muni wi-fi client device line Zoneflex is the product line that most people are going to look at (for SMB's, hotels, etc. etc.). If I get 7dB more directional gain than your standard AP... you bet its going to make a big difference. That's a 200% increase. Plus the gear is smart enough to not try and blast through walls. For instance... did a site survey this last week in a 100 year old building with foot thick solid stone walls. Put the AP in a room one plaster wall away from that solid wall... and was getting full throughput outside in the courtyard. The product is smart enough to know that bouncing off the wall through a window is the best path over brute force. I have yet to see anyone argue that the antenna technology is something other than a work of art once they have seen what it can do in person. If you're serious about purchasing some gear, I could probably setup a demo for you. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question Yeah, I saw that, many times. Are there any other reviews? I suspect the good performance over and above a regular high quality AP is that it's dual band mesh. The Ruckus gear is dual band mesh right? I get a lot of hits when I Google ruckus dual band mesh mediaflex but the Ruckus site isn't totally clear. Could a little more directional gain really make that much difference? I suspect head to head with other dual band mesh gear the Ruckus gear would prove to be similar in performance. It needs to be an apples to apples comparison. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:31 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/beamforming-wifi-ruckus,2390.html - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 4:26 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question Does Ruckus state their antenna gain anywhere? If their beam forming gain isn't all that much higher than the competition's omni gain then the performance couldn't be all that much better unless there's noise or multi path issues. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:13 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: Depends on your definition of economical :-) Ruckus has meshing built in to all of their AP's... plus with the antenna array built into these babies you can usually get by with deploying 1/2 as many AP's... so it can end up costing less than a roll your own Mikrotik system Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:01 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question I would prefer copper to link indoor APs. If that won't work due to either technical issues or the customer just plain doesn't want holes drilled, is WDS pretty much the only financially viable alternative that properly bridges the network? Could do a boat-load of PtP links, but that'd be silly. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question
As APs I'm running Bullets with gain antennas, PS2's and NS2's so I've got the gain and great signals. I'm in a place where there's no interference of any kind. I'm already in the sweet spot as far as signal strength goes and clients are connecting at 54Mbps. What more is there to gain? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 8:09 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: Your average Wi-Fi AP comes with a 3dBi antenna or even a unity gain antenna... every 3-dB increase is double the power... The trick though isn't that its pointing a 10dBi antenna pattern at a client, its that its taking it one step further and pointing that at the best possible path to the client, which in an indoor environment is rarely the most direct path. I could pull out a few graphs that Ruckus has done to illustrate the point... but the Toms Hardware article is the most unbiased review of the gear out there Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 4:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question Seems hard to believe that if I took a 10dbi antenna which isn't all that much gain and put it on my AP and pointed it at my client I'd see that much of a gain. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:43 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: There are over 4,000 antenna patterns, with the relative gain of the best ones up to 10dBi... the magic is though that the AP also uses the patterns they transmit on to receive on... so the gain is bi-directional instead of blasting the signal out but not having any mechanism in place for the client to be heard. The AP can also selectively put noise in up to a -15dBi null... which can be helpful. I would be curious in what indoor environment there isn't multi-path :-) Anyways, if you have doubts... Tom's Hardware (which is as unbiased as it gets) did some testing against Cisco and Aruba. If you want to see the power of beamforming, I'd encourage you to read this article all the way through. It gives a very detailed explanation of the magic behind Ruckus. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/beamforming-wifi-ruckus,2390.html Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question Does Ruckus state their antenna gain anywhere? If their beam forming gain isn't all that much higher than the competition's omni gain then the performance couldn't be all that much better unless there's noise or multi path issues. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:13 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: Depends on your definition of economical :-) Ruckus has meshing built in to all of their AP's... plus with the antenna array built into these babies you can usually get by with deploying 1/2 as many AP's... so it can end up costing less than a roll your own Mikrotik system Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:01 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question I would prefer copper to link indoor APs. If that won't work due to either technical issues or the customer just plain doesn't want holes drilled, is WDS pretty much the only financially viable alternative that properly bridges the network? Could do a boat-load of PtP links, but that'd be silly. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question
OK, you've piqued my interest. I'll try it someday and take your word for it for now. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 8:21 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: Greg... your looking at this from an outdoors service provider aspect. The gear isn't designed for that. Its for indoor deployments (although there are people using it to do outdoor service). Put a bullet with a 10dBi antenna and a Ruckus AP next to each other indoors... test from a few locations, and test with throughput, not receive level... and the results will speak for themselves :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question As APs I'm running Bullets with gain antennas, PS2's and NS2's so I've got the gain and great signals. I'm in a place where there's no interference of any kind. I'm already in the sweet spot as far as signal strength goes and clients are connecting at 54Mbps. What more is there to gain? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 8:09 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: Your average Wi-Fi AP comes with a 3dBi antenna or even a unity gain antenna... every 3-dB increase is double the power... The trick though isn't that its pointing a 10dBi antenna pattern at a client, its that its taking it one step further and pointing that at the best possible path to the client, which in an indoor environment is rarely the most direct path. I could pull out a few graphs that Ruckus has done to illustrate the point... but the Toms Hardware article is the most unbiased review of the gear out there Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 4:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question Seems hard to believe that if I took a 10dbi antenna which isn't all that much gain and put it on my AP and pointed it at my client I'd see that much of a gain. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:43 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: There are over 4,000 antenna patterns, with the relative gain of the best ones up to 10dBi... the magic is though that the AP also uses the patterns they transmit on to receive on... so the gain is bi-directional instead of blasting the signal out but not having any mechanism in place for the client to be heard. The AP can also selectively put noise in up to a -15dBi null... which can be helpful. I would be curious in what indoor environment there isn't multi-path :-) Anyways, if you have doubts... Tom's Hardware (which is as unbiased as it gets) did some testing against Cisco and Aruba. If you want to see the power of beamforming, I'd encourage you to read this article all the way through. It gives a very detailed explanation of the magic behind Ruckus. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/beamforming-wifi-ruckus,2390.html Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question Does Ruckus state their antenna gain anywhere? If their beam forming gain isn't all that much higher than the competition's omni gain then the performance couldn't be all that much better unless there's noise or multi path issues. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:13 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: Depends on your definition of economical :-) Ruckus has meshing built in to all of their AP's... plus with the antenna array built into these babies you can usually get by with deploying 1/2 as many AP's... so it can end up costing less than a roll your own Mikrotik system Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:01 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question I would prefer copper to link indoor APs. If that won't work due to either technical issues or the customer just plain doesn't want holes drilled, is WDS pretty much the only financially viable alternative that properly bridges the network? Could do a boat-load of PtP links, but that'd be silly. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question
AP's mostly outdoors, clients indoors. On Nov 22, 2009, at 8:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Are you talking indoor or outdoor? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 7:15 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question As APs I'm running Bullets with gain antennas, PS2's and NS2's so I've got the gain and great signals. I'm in a place where there's no interference of any kind. I'm already in the sweet spot as far as signal strength goes and clients are connecting at 54Mbps. What more is there to gain? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 8:09 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: Your average Wi-Fi AP comes with a 3dBi antenna or even a unity gain antenna... every 3-dB increase is double the power... The trick though isn't that its pointing a 10dBi antenna pattern at a client, its that its taking it one step further and pointing that at the best possible path to the client, which in an indoor environment is rarely the most direct path. I could pull out a few graphs that Ruckus has done to illustrate the point... but the Toms Hardware article is the most unbiased review of the gear out there Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 4:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question Seems hard to believe that if I took a 10dbi antenna which isn't all that much gain and put it on my AP and pointed it at my client I'd see that much of a gain. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:43 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: There are over 4,000 antenna patterns, with the relative gain of the best ones up to 10dBi... the magic is though that the AP also uses the patterns they transmit on to receive on... so the gain is bi-directional instead of blasting the signal out but not having any mechanism in place for the client to be heard. The AP can also selectively put noise in up to a -15dBi null... which can be helpful. I would be curious in what indoor environment there isn't multi-path :-) Anyways, if you have doubts... Tom's Hardware (which is as unbiased as it gets) did some testing against Cisco and Aruba. If you want to see the power of beamforming, I'd encourage you to read this article all the way through. It gives a very detailed explanation of the magic behind Ruckus. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/beamforming-wifi-ruckus,2390.html Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question Does Ruckus state their antenna gain anywhere? If their beam forming gain isn't all that much higher than the competition's omni gain then the performance couldn't be all that much better unless there's noise or multi path issues. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:13 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: Depends on your definition of economical :-) Ruckus has meshing built in to all of their AP's... plus with the antenna array built into these babies you can usually get by with deploying 1/2 as many AP's... so it can end up costing less than a roll your own Mikrotik system Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:01 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question I would prefer copper to link indoor APs. If that won't work due to either technical issues or the customer just plain doesn't want holes drilled, is WDS pretty much the only financially viable alternative that properly bridges the network? Could do a boat-load of PtP links, but that'd be silly. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice?
From http://www.ubnt.com/forum/showthread.php?p=53556: Client Connection Quality On Nov 22, 2009, at 9:38 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: I'm gonna have to set up the environment again. Only thing I cant simulate right now is distance. As long as it wasnt some voodoo config setting that made it work better, I might have to play with the Mobile NS2's settings for it to play nicely. OT: What is CCQ? -Israel Josh Luthman wrote: It is very weird isn't it? Vi is better the Emacs. On 11/22/09, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Josh: I thought that too. I have a handful of customers on a 5 MHz sector. Winbox shows this: Emacs! Mike At 07:32 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote: I believe when you half the channels the rates also get halved - from 54mbit to 27mbit max (that is from 20mhz to 10mhz channels). I also can't see why you're voice would be having problems in half or quarter channels unless there is a software bug. It should only improve unless you're using all available bandwidth. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: First, you should have a better signal than -70 at 5Miles away with a 24dB/NS2 antenna and a B2HP/9dB omni. I get 65 or better with a 19dB panel. Don't forget, 10MHz channel is 1/2 available bandwidth and 5MHz is 1/4 available bandwidth. Really, you will get about 7-10MBit aggregate (depending on how many customers) on a 5MHz channel connected at 54MBit, which requires signals at -74dBm with a good fade margin (10dB). Also, the TX power is significantly less for 54MBps (23dBm) vs 24MBps(28dBm), less than half. Likely, you are connecting at 48MBps or 36Mbps, which at that rate your total available real case bandwidth is as little as 4MBps, while at 20MHz you are at 15+. A narrower channel should not affect your transmission, likely will make signals better, roughly double (+3dBm) from 20-10, and double from 10-5(total +6dBm). Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice? Well next time definitely bring more food! Beef jerky and granola bars. In my testing the narrower channels just made things slower. I was testing in a pristine area where there was no other 5.8GHz going on. From what I hear if the environment had been polluted performance might have actually gone up with the narrower channels. From what I've read narrower channels doesn't effect packet size or transport. But switching to WDS bridged does. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:15 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Its not in the field, but it is sitting here in my bedroom looking cool :). I was thinking that using the 10/5MHz bandwidth required one to setup something else. I'm not that familiar with the use of half/quarter rate channels and how that affects the frame transport/packet size etc,. I wonder if it was environment based rather than 'software/configuration' based. If I get some time this evening I might setup the gear again for more focused testing (Testing in the field with volunteers who are cold and hungry dont usually respond well to testing plans). -Israel os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Just for kicks I'd try WDS bridged. Do you have control from where you're at now? Is the equipment still set up? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: @Travis Johnson - Yes Upgraded to newest firmware for the two units @os10rules - Nope, Fixed was simple AP and Mobile was Station modes os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Running WDS bridged? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Hey All, I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) with some Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 Bullet2HP. One thing that was surprising was the performance degradation when switching from 20MHz to 10MHz/5MHz. Our tests were Raw Bandwidth Tests(AirOS), Video (VLC UDP Stream), Voice (Trixbox G711 Voice Call), and MTR (Latency, Jitter) I still have data to collect and prepare a report for the tech team, but we did notice that when we switched to 10 or 5MHz bandwidth our voice calls was greatly degraded. Only one way; from Fixed to Mobile I could hear the Fixed station easily. Mobile to Fixed the voice was choppy. We started to get packet loss massive jitter on 10MHz, just going back to 20MHz made the links stable. Fixed Station: On a mountain side - HPOL 9dBI Omni Directional
[WISPA] Another Ruckus review
http://www.edn.com/article/CA6296066.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] And another Ruckus review
http://www.pcworld.com/article/160867/ruckus_wifi_gear_goes_upmarket.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice?
: I believe when you half the channels the rates also get halved - from 54mbit to 27mbit max (that is from 20mhz to 10mhz channels). I also can't see why you're voice would be having problems in half or quarter channels unless there is a software bug. It should only improve unless you're using all available bandwidth. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Chuck Hogg mailto:ch...@shelbybb.comch...@shelbybb.com wrote: First, you should have a better signal than -70 at 5Miles away with a 24dB/NS2 antenna and a B2HP/9dB omni. I get 65 or better with a 19dB panel. Don't forget, 10MHz channel is 1/2 available bandwidth and 5MHz is 1/4 available bandwidth. Really, you will get about 7-10MBit aggregate (depending on how many customers) on a 5MHz channel connected at 54MBit, which requires signals at -74dBm with a good fade margin (10dB). Also, the TX power is significantly less for 54MBps (23dBm) vs 24MBps(28dBm), less than half. Likely, you are connecting at 48MBps or 36Mbps, which at that rate your total available real case bandwidth is as little as 4MBps, while at 20MHz you are at 15+. A narrower channel should not affect your transmission, likely will make signals better, roughly double (+3dBm) from 20-10, and double from 10-5(total +6dBm). Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 mailto:ch...@shelbybb.comch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgwireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgwireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of mailto:os10ru...@gmail.comos10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice? Well next time definitely bring more food! Beef jerky and granola bars. In my testing the narrower channels just made things slower. I was testing in a pristine area where there was no other 5.8GHz going on. From what I hear if the environment had been polluted performance might have actually gone up with the narrower channels. From what I've read narrower channels doesn't effect packet size or transport. But switching to WDS bridged does. Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:15 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Its not in the field, but it is sitting here in my bedroom looking cool :). I was thinking that using the 10/5MHz bandwidth required one to setup something else. I'm not that familiar with the use of half/quarter rate channels and how that affects the frame transport/packet size etc,. I wonder if it was environment based rather than 'software/configuration' based. If I get some time this evening I might setup the gear again for more focused testing (Testing in the field with volunteers who are cold and hungry dont usually respond well to testing plans). -Israel mailto:os10ru...@gmail.comos10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Just for kicks I'd try WDS bridged. Do you have control from where you're at now? Is the equipment still set up? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: @Travis Johnson - Yes Upgraded to newest firmware for the two units @os10rules - Nope, Fixed was simple AP and Mobile was Station modes mailto:os10ru...@gmail.comos10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Running WDS bridged? Greg On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: Hey All, I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) with some Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 Bullet2HP. One thing that was surprising was the performance degradation when switching from 20MHz to 10MHz/5MHz. Our tests were Raw Bandwidth Tests(AirOS), Video (VLC UDP Stream), Voice (Trixbox G711 Voice Call), and MTR (Latency, Jitter) I still have data to collect and prepare a report for the tech team, but we did notice that when we switched to 10 or 5MHz bandwidth our voice calls was greatly degraded. Only one way; from Fixed to Mobile I could hear the Fixed station easily. Mobile to Fixed the voice was choppy. We started to get packet loss massive jitter on 10MHz, just going back to 20MHz made the links stable. Fixed Station: On a mountain side - HPOL 9dBI Omni Directional with a Bullet2HP @400mW
Re: [WISPA] RadWin 2000 5.8
As a Mac OS X/Windows/Linux user (OS X natively and Windows, Linux under Fusion) I'd like to see the configuration apps be universal (Java?) or something cross platform. But I realize you can't fight city hall. So I'll always have Fusion for a small handful of apps (Mapwel, Dude, WinBox). Greg On Nov 24, 2009, at 7:54 AM, Steve Barnes wrote: Josh, you are correct we are not the same person. I live in a world that windows is operated on 90% on all business computers. I don't live in a world of nirvana that I can use just linux and life is good. Besides if I was programming an app that I wanted to reach the majority of computers why would I program for just linux. I would program for the standard. More to the point, my review was not to hack the OS of the computer the software needed to be installed on it, it was for the equipment. I don't feel your comments help anyone and put a shadow over a good product. The RadWin 2000 product is easy to configure but as Josh has pointed out you must use a windows computer to configure it. Steve Barnes RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 5:27 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RadWin 2000 5.8 Software easy to use Is this the Windows only RadWin stuff still? Not sure how in the world you could call that thing easy to use, but we are not the same person. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote: Since we are giving recommendations I just had a RadWin 2000 FDX Link put up and with 2- 2ft FDX PacWireless Dishes. The Link is 18.2 miles. -62 both ends. Can push 42 Mbps FDX using TCP Bandwidth test on Mtiks on both ends. Link extremely stable $4000. Software easy to use. Radios so easy to setup I called Tech support and asked what I forgot. Very happy. Replaced frustrating StarOS FDX that gave me about 10 Mbps. Steve Barnes RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors
Turn the power down! On Nov 24, 2009, at 2:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: The silicone sleeve is just for appearance. It's not needed, according to them. I'm tempted to setup a Rocket and sector in a shower and just leave them there for a couple weeks. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:30 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors The Rockets use what seems to be a soft silicone sleeve that slides over the RSMA. Me no trust. I taped them anyway. Ugly, yes. Watertight? Heck yes. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:59 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors According to UBNT, their Rocket and RocketDish have an IP67 compliant connector. According to other (more reputable) companies that have IP67 radios, they're water submersible to a couple feet. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:50 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors Heat shrink doesn't work in the cold. It will get hard (the glue) and as things move in the wind etc. it'll allow water in. Been there done that. NOTHING works better than self vulcanizing rubber tape. If what you use is easy to get off it's not a good tight seal. sigh It sure can't be that hard to build a connector that seals without the tape! sigh marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors Yes - hate the mess but seals the best! On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 6:43 PM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Coax-seal On Nov 19, 2009, at 6:42 PM, AJ wrote: CANUSA adhesive shrink tubing is your friend :) On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 4:41 PM, lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: No 400 connector from any of the manufacturers is weatherproof by itself. You need to weatherproof all of your connections. If they are not getting wet you are lucky. Plain and simple. Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:20:52 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors I've run out of these, and none of the vendors I use commonly carry them. Anyone out west have these? Yeah, I know, it costs more to buy two of these than a whole pre-built 10 foot cable, but every danged pre-built I buy has water issues. We have never had to seal any of the cables we built ourselves, and none of them have ever leaked (except when someone who'll forever remain nameless forgot to tighten the cable...), but I have no luck at all with the pre-made I've bought from multiple places. Our temporary site needed to go up in a real hurry, so I bought a whole pile of parts and cables, and most of them have had issues. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] Lightning arrestors
You have to check the specs. The possible problems are high VSWR. Rather than transiting through the device the radio waves bounce back from the device. This could damage your transmitter, will reduce your transmitted power, and increase receive loss (reduced receive signal strength). It's also possible for the device to maintain a low VSWR (still present a 50 ohm impedance at 5.8GHz) but be very lossy (reduced transmit power, reduced receive signal strength). I don't believe the lightning protection benefits are any different between units for different bands. The difference is how it passes the RF signals you're trying to pass through it (loss and VSWR). Greg On Nov 28, 2009, at 11:00 PM, Michael Baird wrote: What happens if you use a 2.4 lightning arrestor on a 5.8 radio? Will it cause degraded signal or incorrect lightning protection. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers.... Needed for WISP related product...
Does this rely on some unpublished feature of the current Atheros chipset which could disappear in the next evolution making the project obsolete and the effort wasted? Is there a URL for the project? Greg On Dec 1, 2009, at 12:56 AM, MDK wrote: Actually, it's far better than cost-effective. It's flexible, in both hardware and capabilities.Firewall, routing, routing daemons, and other things. Frankly, I find the physical aspects of the Airmax stuff frustratingly limited. I've grown fond of my immense ability to do creative stuff with Star-OS and a wide array of physical forms - especially since much of my network relies on low power consumption. AirMax, deployed as an AP and clients... seems ok.But that's only a small part of a good network. -- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:51 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers Needed for WISP related product... Availability is supposedly resolved. We'll see. Routing... there is a full SDK. You can do anything you want on those things. The new ones have 400+MHz proc's, plenty to do some routing/firewalling. I just can't see a home grown solution like you're proposing being cost-effective. We spent about 2 months on a project just like this, and started to have some pretty awesome performance and results. Then UBNT stuff came out. On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:39 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: Given UBNT's record of unavailability of product, and the inability to route via the interface, I vastly prefer this to UBNT's products. Now, mind you, I'm not really putting them down, but this is an excellent infrastructure tool...Routing and other capabilities that vastly exceed some better known... -- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:25 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers Needed for WISP related product... Is there really much need for this, given the new AirMax product line? I'm just saying... On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:19 PM, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: What would you call a totally proprietary, TDMA based protocol, without ACK or CSMA? Doesn't look a whole lot like 802.11x, but if you wish to say it is, then, for you it is :) -- From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:36 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] FreeBSD hackers Needed for WISP related product... If you are using Atheros based hardware, it's still 802.11... regardless of what software you put on top of it. Travis Microserv MDK wrote: If you're a WISP and have interest in using commodity - off the shelf - Atheros based hardware to achieve higher than ethernet speeds over wireless... This is not a tweak of 802.11, it is a completely different mode... There is currently an opportunity to do so, where most of the work has been done by various others in the FreeBSd community, but it is not integrated or packaged as a useful WISP product, and that's what needs to be done. This does not need to result in an open source release, due to the relaxed BSD license. Or, it can. But I'm looking for some people who have experience with freebsd, and have an interest in integrating what could be an awesome performing product using inexpensive commodity hardware. email me at pda at neofast dot net or mark at neofast dot net -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] Sectors
Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack of horsepower on the AP's CPU? Greg On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual AP's, or would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is AP overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've seen a performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs multiple boards with single radios? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Mark, If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the strength of your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the Indiana farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is not that high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had good luck with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing clients and enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will justify 3 sectors, I would go that way though. Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our salesmen to a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go farther, we try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a high density of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are well established in our area and have most of these sites already in operation. Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site density. Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark McElvy Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Sectors I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP to 32 subs. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors What frequency band and polarization? I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the Omni to the sectors. If it is because your AP is overloaded so you need to offload some, 3 AP's might be attractive for future proofing sakes. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark McElvy Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors 9db -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:42 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors What size omni are you using? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:59 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors That is the general suggestion - two 120s. That one guy that does antenna design said so :) You will get some less coverage then three 120s but at the cost of the extra radio/antenna it isn't cost efficient. On 12/1/09, Mark McElvy mmce...@accubak.com wrote: I need to sector a tower that currently is an omni. I don't really want to go to 3x 120's but find it hard to find 180's and have heard they don't tend to work great. I have also heard 2x 120's will work, any comments? Mark - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: 12/01/09 19:32:00
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
I had not heard that different metals are more or less effective at RF shielding at higher frequencies. I had heard of Mu metal that's used in audio recording studios to specifically block 60Hz hum. I tried to find info about what attenuation different materials offer and all I could find was this: http://www.ramayes.com/EMI_RF_Foil_Shielding.htm According to them the shielding (up to 10GHz) is about the same for the different materials. I know all the amps and splitters the cable company uses up on their poles are aluminum. Greg On Dec 3, 2009, at 12:41 AM, MDK wrote: Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf. Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes). -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case? Do you normally use steel if not? I use these: http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2eq=Tp= Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: I've given up on this. There is just too much cross talk. I put all radios in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays. I try to keep them at least 3 or 6 feet apart too. Life is much much nicer. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job of shielding if you attach the pigtail. How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? Mike At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their own box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing nothing and some 411 cards so why not play? was my thinking. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes another one listening. At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push 3 meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer base. I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 180 degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just do 2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to where you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per sector. I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my remote AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already suggested doing and I like the economics of it. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Max 3meg - b only mode on this
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
I know some special purpose plastic enclosures made for RF work have conductive/shielding qualities to them. There's even conductive/shielding paint one can buy for RF projects. So those plastic boxes might not be as bad as you think. Greg On Dec 3, 2009, at 10:50 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: More along the lines of plastic enclosures versus metal enclosures. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Plastic next to the antennas??? CRAZY! So the radios pretty much talk to themselves a lot, huh. Hearing voices in their heads. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure I have to laugh at one of our competitors who uses PLASTIC enclosures next to their antennas on the tower. Even on the most RF-jam packed sites. One site in particular you can almost get a fluorescent light to glow just holding it in your hands. And there they are with their plastic enclosures. And can't figure out why their system sucks ass. Oh well. They burned us for over $100k in consulting fees and equipment. It makes me laugh everytime I see it. On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: I've given up on this. There is just too much cross talk. I put all radios in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays. I try to keep them at least 3 or 6 feet apart too. Life is much much nicer. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job of shielding if you attach the pigtail. How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? Mike At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their own box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing nothing and some 411 cards so why not play? was my thinking. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes another one listening. At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push 3 meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer base. I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 180 degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just do 2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to where you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per sector. I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my remote AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already suggested doing and I like the economics of it. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
I thought the heavy duty EMP shielding the govt/mil does at protected sites uses copper. Greg On Dec 4, 2009, at 6:38 AM, Scott Reed wrote: Can you point me to a source to confirm this? Aluminum is a better conductor than steel so I would think it does a better job. I would be interested in reading about the physics behind this. MDK wrote: Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf. Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes). -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case? Do you normally use steel if not? I use these: http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2eq=Tp= Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: I've given up on this. There is just too much cross talk. I put all radios in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays. I try to keep them at least 3 or 6 feet apart too. Life is much much nicer. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job of shielding if you attach the pigtail. How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? Mike At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their own box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing nothing and some 411 cards so why not play? was my thinking. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes another one listening. At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push 3 meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer base. I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 180 degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just do 2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to where you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per sector. I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my remote AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already suggested doing and I like the economics of it. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to get that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak times, we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but that's not
Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
Isn't copper a better conductor? Aluminum is lighter but not as good of a conductor. That's why high tension wires have to be fatter than copper wires to carry the same current but they're cheaper and lighter. Greg On Dec 4, 2009, at 7:29 AM, Scott Reed wrote: I would think so. Aluminum is a little better conductor, but copper's physical characteristics make it easier to work with in many applications. os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: I thought the heavy duty EMP shielding the govt/mil does at protected sites uses copper. Greg On Dec 4, 2009, at 6:38 AM, Scott Reed wrote: Can you point me to a source to confirm this? Aluminum is a better conductor than steel so I would think it does a better job. I would be interested in reading about the physics behind this. MDK wrote: Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf. Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes). -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case? Do you normally use steel if not? I use these: http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2eq=Tp= Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: I've given up on this. There is just too much cross talk. I put all radios in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays. I try to keep them at least 3 or 6 feet apart too. Life is much much nicer. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job of shielding if you attach the pigtail. How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? Mike At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the box, the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their own box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. That's one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone a couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a doing nothing and some 411 cards so why not play? was my thinking. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes another one listening. At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to push 3 meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer base. I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 2 180 degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you just do 2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to where you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per sector. I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I only dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my remote AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card as needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of course until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already suggested doing and I like the economics
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Serial Port Monitoring
There are some really cool (and cheap) ASIC boards with Ethernet based connectivity that you need to write a custom program for but you could get really fancy with. They have A/D converters and you could monitor the battery voltage accurately, and you could have the device email you at the desired voltage set points and you could have it email you each day with the battery voltage. It would take some work but it could be nice. I would be a little concerned about how well buffered the serial port lines are on the MT board. You might want to use some opto-isolators for your interface. Greg On Dec 5, 2009, at 4:34 PM, Robert West wrote: Before I go over to the MT forums and get treated like an idiot (they are somehow able to see through my clever disguise, darn it!) I'm looking for anyone who has used the serial pins on the Routerboard to send an on/off signal. I have a home brew solar install that runs an AP but there are times, like many cloudy days in a row, things don't charge as well and the battery will drop and then I lose the AP. I have a backup battery I carry with me and I swap the things from time to time but still, sometimes it drops out. I'm cheap, so bear with me here. I know there are lots of things I can buy ($$$) to do what I want to do but I'm a maverick, a rebel, a guy who knows just enough to screw everything up and almost enough to fix some of it. So I only want the MT to send me a message that the battery is low. I have an el-cheapo device, cost me fifteen bucks, that will monitor the battery and turn on 3 lights ,Good, Low and You better get here or the phone is gonna start ringing. If I can take the voltage that is sent to my low led and use that to send a signal to the serial port then I think I'd be almost there. Older versions of RouterOS had a package that would monitor the serial port but from what I read, it's no more. Was it substituted with anything? If so, I can't find it. Any help is welcome, just don't send me to the forums, those guys are ruthless! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Serial Port Monitoring
This is the sort of thing I was thinking of: http://tuxgraphics.org/electronics/200904/embedded-webserver-equipment-control.shtml Something along the lines of a hobbyist kit project - cheap but some legwork involved. Greg On Dec 5, 2009, at 8:06 PM, Robert West wrote: Good thoughts. I'll look those over. I think I have some isolators in my fun box that I ripped out of something I trashed, never thought of that. May as well get fancy and use the GOOD hot glue -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 7:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Serial Port Monitoring There are some really cool (and cheap) ASIC boards with Ethernet based connectivity that you need to write a custom program for but you could get really fancy with. They have A/D converters and you could monitor the battery voltage accurately, and you could have the device email you at the desired voltage set points and you could have it email you each day with the battery voltage. It would take some work but it could be nice. I would be a little concerned about how well buffered the serial port lines are on the MT board. You might want to use some opto-isolators for your interface. Greg On Dec 5, 2009, at 4:34 PM, Robert West wrote: Before I go over to the MT forums and get treated like an idiot (they are somehow able to see through my clever disguise, darn it!) I'm looking for anyone who has used the serial pins on the Routerboard to send an on/off signal. I have a home brew solar install that runs an AP but there are times, like many cloudy days in a row, things don't charge as well and the battery will drop and then I lose the AP. I have a backup battery I carry with me and I swap the things from time to time but still, sometimes it drops out. I'm cheap, so bear with me here. I know there are lots of things I can buy ($$$) to do what I want to do but I'm a maverick, a rebel, a guy who knows just enough to screw everything up and almost enough to fix some of it. So I only want the MT to send me a message that the battery is low. I have an el-cheapo device, cost me fifteen bucks, that will monitor the battery and turn on 3 lights ,Good, Low and You better get here or the phone is gonna start ringing. If I can take the voltage that is sent to my low led and use that to send a signal to the serial port then I think I'd be almost there. Older versions of RouterOS had a package that would monitor the serial port but from what I read, it's no more. Was it substituted with anything? If so, I can't find it. Any help is welcome, just don't send me to the forums, those guys are ruthless! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] www.google.com
Is this something specific to the RB450/450G? I have the RB750 and I'm running 4.3 and having no issues. I'm using the RB750 on a 15Mbps/2Mbps cable connection with numerous pcq queues doing prioritization (no limiting) on outbound (queuing with no prioritization on the inbound) and I'm impressed with how low the CPU usage is. It spiked once to 22% but since that one time it's not gone over 12%. I've been using it a few weeks. Greg On Dec 6, 2009, at 10:57 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I'm quite confident it's MT. Introduced in 4.0. On 12/6/09, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Ya, I think I mentioned it there already. I figured it may not be a Mikrotik problem so wanted to post here too. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: I am having the same issue. We have a thread on Butch's MT list but it is just discussion. On 12/6/09, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: OK, 3 times in the past week that I've noticed I could not get to www.google.com via the web, nor ping it, and DNS could not resolve it. I COULD ping and resolve google.com. I tried changing my DNS to OpenDNS and Public DNS (4.2.2.1) but had the same results. M firewall is an RB450G running 4.3. Is anyone out there having this issue? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
Maybe government has to be the answer if we're going to address the problem of the vast number of people who could afford insurance but choose to spend their money elsewhere. It's going to require the government forcing them to buy insurance or pay some tax that is used to fund health insurance. On the inside of the system - hospitals and insurance companies etc: Greed and stupidity are the two root causes of waste in any enterprise. The problem now is either people are profiting from the waste or they're too immoral to care or to stupid to notice. Even if the government or private industry itself massively overhauls healthcare there will still be the same problems if it's still the same people involved. It's like taking a crappy football team and trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. If in the healthcare reform heads will roll then it stands a chance of working, but I don't think anyone is talking about that. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 12:17 AM, RickG wrote: That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are viable. We need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either they are not listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants the government running health care or even an option. This includes many low wage earners I am acquainted with. So, I know where the people are who are against the bill but where are the proponents at? On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net wrote: Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going to the hospital. I am more than happy to pay for extra medical services. Whatever those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra insurance riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands on top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle. Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to pay that extra tax to drive your car? Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much...
Re: [WISPA] Long Cat5 Run
The important specs are twists per foot and capacitance per foot with the capacitance being the most important. The lower the capacitance per foot the lower the attenuation and the lower the crosstalk (because there is capacitive interaction with neighboring pairs as well). If you can find a cable with lower capacitance per foot you can go further. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 8:37 AM, 3-dB Networks wrote: I once had a Tranzeo radio running at near 500ft of cable, at 100 Base full, with no problems. Granted it was Belden 7919 Shielded Cable... it was a backhaul for my house and didn't have issue with the cable (getting the radio to deal with the noise floor was a separate issue :-) FWIW... I've run many radios to 350ft on 802.3af power and 24v PoE with no issues. I of course try to avoid it, but I often wonder if those recommendations were for CAT5 cable, and 5e allows you to stretch a little bit further... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Long Cat5 Run Voltage won't be a problem. http://www.wisp-router.com/poecalculator.php At 320 feet you should be OK with the Ethernet timing. I have done 340 with 48v Ceragon (that's AirMux FYI) gear. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:31 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Confusing info on the net so I guess I better ask. I need to run a Cat5 line near 320 feet. I know that over 300 could cause issues but if I put my PoE switch about 20 or 30 feet in and then run the rest of the way, will we be golden or will we risk attenuation? Seems to be confusion on the net over use of switch curing the attenuation. Personally I think the switch will make it all cool, just want to make sure. I use outdoor, solid core, shielded, flooded cable with static drain. Running it to a Mikrotik 600a using 4 R52N cards. Another thought, running 48v though 290 feet of solid core Cat5 Do ya think I'll have enough juice the end of the run to power up that 600a and the 4 R52N's? Just so ya know. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
Just taking issue with the I was charged $8 for two Tylenol, I was charged $10 for a Tylenol. A beer in a bar (with far less overhead) is $5. Isn't the fact that if one doesn't have insurance the hospitals work with you at the very least go to show that the folks providing us healthcare aren't the cold hearted money grabbing parasites some pushing for healthcare reform (I mean people I know and people I hear on TV, not pointing fingers at anyone here on the list) try to claim they are? I know of examples where patients couldn't afford the meds so the pharmaceutical company donated them, or a friend (who's a missionary in the jungle and not much money) who's daughter ran up a $500,000 bill being on a special life support device which the company itself helped pay for and the rest was covered by grants. Our system is not as broken as some want to make it out to be. Many of the uninsured are uninsured by choice or illegals. I live in Venezuela and I am covered by their free system there (though if it matters and one has the money people go to the paid clinics) BUT I'M NOT THERE ILLEGALLY. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Scottie Arnett wrote: I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is
Re: [WISPA] health insurance
I believe the proposed changes have only dealt with the insurance side (government provided and more rules for the private sector insurance providers). On the healthcare provider (doctors, hospitals) side I believe they've only talked about rules. Maybe new government clinics that provide healthcare at discounted rates would help drive down costs in the private sector. What works well in Venezuela is the private and state run systems are separate. It doesn't matter how bad the state run system gets because you are free to go to the paid clinics, which don't charge exorbitant rates because it would drive everyone to the public system. What I worry about happening here is we lose a completely free and unfettered option. If the government really can do it better and cheaper then the private sector will follow suit. If the government needs to stifle the private sector and strong arm people into their plan it only shows they can't compete. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Paul C Diem wrote: It's like taking a crappy football team and trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. But the feds current answer is to create another football team, buy new uniforms for their team with taxpayer dollars and then expect all the teams, including theirs, to suddenly start performing well. Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Maybe government has to be the answer if we're going to address the problem of the vast number of people who could afford insurance but choose to spend their money elsewhere. It's going to require the government forcing them to buy insurance or pay some tax that is used to fund health insurance. On the inside of the system - hospitals and insurance companies etc: Greed and stupidity are the two root causes of waste in any enterprise. The problem now is either people are profiting from the waste or they're too immoral to care or to stupid to notice. Even if the government or private industry itself massively overhauls healthcare there will still be the same problems if it's still the same people involved. It's like taking a crappy football team and trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. If in the healthcare reform heads will roll then it stands a chance of working, but I don't think anyone is talking about that. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 12:17 AM, RickG wrote: That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are viable. We need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either they are not listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants the government running health care or even an option. This includes many low wage earners I am acquainted with. So, I know where the people are who are against the bill but where are the proponents at? On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net wrote: Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2
Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors
I was taught in tech school that pencil erasers give off an acid that can damage the contacts. Who knows if it's true. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 7:32 PM, Phil Curnutt wrote: Try a pencil erasure. Phil On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: OxGard works too! They usually have that at Menards. Electrical supply house will have NoAlOx. At 04:10 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: Well boy, ya learned me something! I honestly never heard of NoAlOx before. Looked it up, looks good. I'll have to pick some up for other things as well, looks like. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors Bob: The fingers are gold plated and won't corrode either. When you're cleaning them, and since they were outside unprotected, get your close up goggles on and use a toothpick to make sure there is nothing in the space between the fingers. I actually have some ancient silver N right angle adapters that are black, not silver. I use them on various radios in my shack. They work just fine. I do like to put just a little bit NOT MUCH NoAlOx or equivalent on the female threads when I put them back together. Silver connectors are more susceptible to mechanical loosening from thermal changes than the nickle silver ones. Get em tight! Mike At 03:55 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: I never would have guessed silver though. Someone mentioned that earlier too. At first it looked like rubber tape residue but it had me scratching me head since boy never put any cables on them. Makes perfect sense though. They will probably be okay, I just didn't want to attack them with the steel wool or whatever and screw up what seem to be very nice sectors. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors I read black stuff, not corrosion. If they are silver connectors, then it's silver oxide and NOT a problem. In the old days all, and now only the best equipment still use silver connectors. Just like an old dime will turn black once it has skin oils on it, so will a silver connector. Neither of them is hurt by the patina. Mike At 03:29 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: 2009/12/7 Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com: If it were me? Toss em and start over. Not worth the trouble. Once corrosion starts it's hard to stop it. marlon He could always solder new N connectors to the antenna element, and be good as new. The Andrew sectors are a good unit, it'd be a shame to toss em. --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors
I was merchant marine. Who's right? : - ) On Dec 7, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Phil Curnutt wrote: Used them all the time on UHF and VHF equipment back in the day. Matter of fact it was taught at my tech school; USCG. Phil On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:33 PM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: I was taught in tech school that pencil erasers give off an acid that can damage the contacts. Who knows if it's true. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 7:32 PM, Phil Curnutt wrote: Try a pencil erasure. Phil On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: OxGard works too! They usually have that at Menards. Electrical supply house will have NoAlOx. At 04:10 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: Well boy, ya learned me something! I honestly never heard of NoAlOx before. Looked it up, looks good. I'll have to pick some up for other things as well, looks like. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors Bob: The fingers are gold plated and won't corrode either. When you're cleaning them, and since they were outside unprotected, get your close up goggles on and use a toothpick to make sure there is nothing in the space between the fingers. I actually have some ancient silver N right angle adapters that are black, not silver. I use them on various radios in my shack. They work just fine. I do like to put just a little bit NOT MUCH NoAlOx or equivalent on the female threads when I put them back together. Silver connectors are more susceptible to mechanical loosening from thermal changes than the nickle silver ones. Get em tight! Mike At 03:55 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: I never would have guessed silver though. Someone mentioned that earlier too. At first it looked like rubber tape residue but it had me scratching me head since boy never put any cables on them. Makes perfect sense though. They will probably be okay, I just didn't want to attack them with the steel wool or whatever and screw up what seem to be very nice sectors. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors I read black stuff, not corrosion. If they are silver connectors, then it's silver oxide and NOT a problem. In the old days all, and now only the best equipment still use silver connectors. Just like an old dime will turn black once it has skin oils on it, so will a silver connector. Neither of them is hurt by the patina. Mike At 03:29 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote: 2009/12/7 Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com: If it were me? Toss em and start over. Not worth the trouble. Once corrosion starts it's hard to stop it. marlon He could always solder new N connectors to the antenna element, and be good as new. The Andrew sectors are a good unit, it'd be a shame to toss em. --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Matt, I wasn't meaning history is a guide or a box (as in we base what we do now on the past), but merely something to remind us that yes, we are different from Europe. Europe's methods have their merit, but many Americans would feel stifled and over regulated in a European system. It's like the difference between living in a condo (has it's merits) or having your own house in the country where you can step outside and take a whiz in the front yard or shoot your gun if you want to. Both are good. Both are right. That's why I hope what the government does is really an option. Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 9:45 AM, Matt Liotta wrote: History should be a guide; not a box. Our country has proven that our system of government and its attitude towards the free market is unmatched by any other system of government past or present. However, multinational corporations are something new that our system is having a hard time with. This is because a perfect capitalist is a monopolist and monopolies destroy innovation, which is the heart of our country's success. Healthcare is tough because it allows for so many straw-man arguments that real debate is lost in the noise. Further, healthcare is now a global concern, so the actions of other nations impact our own. What I would like to see is a real debate that leads to a solution. Businesses simply can't sustain the increasing cost of healthcare and neither can their employees. Right now we have the scariest of all worlds whether you are a liberal or a conservative. People without healthcare aren't healthy and cost us all too much. Doctors have to employ more people to deal with insurance company bureaucracy than to actually provide healthcare. Further, as a percentage of GDP we spend the most and get the least. -Matt On Dec 8, 2009, at 8:29 AM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Owen, I think maybe what you're missing is the historical perspective. Our history is people left Europe which was mostly feudal with kings and rulers dictating the details of people's lives and these people came here to be free. Collaboration is needed so the whole can exceed what the mere individual is capable of but as is evident in the constitution the founding fathers were trying to have just enough, just the bare minimum of government needed to all that to happen. That's why according to the constitution the federal government's roll is only supposed to involve national security and interstate commerce. At one point in time the US government felt it was necessary in order to provide good telephone communications to force there to be only one national telephone company (the streets were getting cluttered with wires and clearly none of the little companies would ever cover the entire nation). Some years later the government felt it was necessary to break up that telecommunications company (the divestiture) and allow competition in those markets. Both decisions were right at the time. Certain aspects of socialism have merit and if you exclude a few totalitarian regimes no socialist country is purely socialist without any private property or capitalism, and all mainly capitalist countries have some social programs. So it comes down to how much is right. Most people feel we need Medicare, VA hospitals and other things you mention below (we're a compassionate people though the majority would say those things need fixing) but it's a big leap from a medical system which takes care of the elderly and honored veterans to a healthcare system for everyone. And from what I've heard (I watch Glen Beck and Jon Stewart so I know I'm getting both sides) there's some language in the government's proposals which clearly makes their thing an option. It sounds more like an offer you can't refuse when they say you can only keep your current private insurance if you don't make any changes or else you default to the government system. What the majority of Americans want is freedom even if it's dangerous (think 2nd amendment). Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Owen Harrell wrote: I keep reading what everyone is saying about government and insurance, but I don't really believe you. Most of you say that you are against the government getting involved in health care, that it is a Socialist idea. What I haven't heard is any of you saying you wanted to stop Medicare or Social Security or shut down the VA hospitals. Why not? These are Socialist programs. These are Government run programs with no choice to purchase it from the private market. Why haven't you said to stop those programs? You say you believe in the Free Market, but I do not see you asking to stop regulating electricity, or natural gas. Only if we let these companies truly charge whatever they wanted to would it be a free
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Sorry guys, I just have to jump in on the Cuban health care thing. I live in Venezuela and we have LOTS of Cuban doctors. I know some personally. I know Venezuelans who have studied in Cuba. It's nothing like they (the Cuban govt) say it is. The numbers are good because it's a closed totalitarian system where one doesn't dare report what is unpopular. Come on guys, you know enough about Cuba. People are clinging to inner tubes and hunks of wood to get away. When I was in the merchant marine we picked up two boat loads of them. Do you guys remember when Russia was still the USSR and on Radio Moscow they had the farm report segment telling about the great excesses of food produced mean while our merchant marine was busying bringing loads of give-away grain to the USSR. Please don'e buy what their state-run media is saying. Anyone see Fahrenheit 911? Remember when Michael Moore arrived at the neighborhood hospital but then they (and their cameras) were quickly directed to the other hospital? Wonder why? Because the neighborhood one (and the whole healthcare system for the people) would have been a laughing stock. Instead they were directed to the premier 5 star hospital that is probably for party officials and military higher ups. Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Robert West wrote: Actually, the United States ranks number 37 in the world for the best doctors and health care system. Most Americans are under the impression that we are number one in so many things but sadly we are way less than number one in most everything. The best doctors and healthcare system? France and Italy. Cuba actually has a very impressive health system and many countries send their doctors there for training. Again, sad but true. Hiding ones head in the sand and ignoring what goes on outside our borders is what we've been doing. I know it's not competition, per se, but it should at least be used as a measuring tool. I'm not under any delusion that we or myself are best in anything. Keeps me moving. Bob- Is this the Insurance List?This is why politics should be a No-No. It's 99% of the list now. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:48 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No kidding. No profits no medical advancements. Where do people go when they seek the best doctors and health system in the world? America. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No, not that simple... On 12/7/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Exactly. We are the one and only industrialized country (with whatever industry we might have left) who puts profit in healthcare. As you stated, their goal is to NOT pay and they can and do come up with anything they can find to do that. Profit has no place in healthcare. Single payer is the only thing I see working. As far as increased taxes to pay for it, we already are paying for it and getting zero bang for our buck. As George from the great white north said, healthcare shows up nowhere in his budget. They just pay extra in taxes. Medicare for all. End of the controversy. Simple. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom Sharples Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance One of the basic probems IMO is that the whole idea of medical insurance, as currentlky implemented, is fundamentally flawed. Consider selling ISP services under the model of broadband insurance. Under that model, your customer would pay you a certain amount per month in case he needs broadband, and you would do your best to find reasons to deny him access. Or how about housing insurance instead of monthly rent. You pay the landlord a certain amount every month in case you need shelter and he oversubscribes a number of his units and hires guards to keep people out on various pretexts. Sound completely ridiculous, yet unless you're in an HMO like Kaiser that's the system we have now. What we need is universal (private or public) access to medical care, healthy lifestyle incentives, and the elimination of stupid laws that only serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs to US consumers, restrict free-market access across state and international lines,create incentives toward excess consumption and CYA medical pratices, and only serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs to US consumers. Tom S. - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Matt, Chill, you're taking a really harsh tone. I'm talking about Cuba because I know about that. I have many Latino friends. I speak Spanish. I know Cubans and I know a lot of people who have been to Cuba. You're putting words in my mouth. I'm not refuting all those other countries statistics. I thought you wanted debate of the facts. Or do you just want us to sit at your feet and listen? Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 7:59 PM, Matt Liotta wrote: And I guess because you know someone from Canada/Britain/France/Spain/ etc that swears the healthcare is worse then they make it out to be and that the US is where everyone with money goes then it must be true. Let's all just ignore study after study that shows every single first world country has it better than the US. Sure, I'll believe Cuba is hiding the real story. What about the other 30+ countries that have better healthcare at a lower GDP cost? Are they lying too? -Matt On Dec 8, 2009, at 7:47 PM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry guys, I just have to jump in on the Cuban health care thing. I live in Venezuela and we have LOTS of Cuban doctors. I know some personally. I know Venezuelans who have studied in Cuba. It's nothing like they (the Cuban govt) say it is. The numbers are good because it's a closed totalitarian system where one doesn't dare report what is unpopular. Come on guys, you know enough about Cuba. People are clinging to inner tubes and hunks of wood to get away. When I was in the merchant marine we picked up two boat loads of them. Do you guys remember when Russia was still the USSR and on Radio Moscow they had the farm report segment telling about the great excesses of food produced mean while our merchant marine was busying bringing loads of give-away grain to the USSR. Please don'e buy what their state-run media is saying. Anyone see Fahrenheit 911? Remember when Michael Moore arrived at the neighborhood hospital but then they (and their cameras) were quickly directed to the other hospital? Wonder why? Because the neighborhood one (and the whole healthcare system for the people) would have been a laughing stock. Instead they were directed to the premier 5 star hospital that is probably for party officials and military higher ups. Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Robert West wrote: Actually, the United States ranks number 37 in the world for the best doctors and health care system. Most Americans are under the impression that we are number one in so many things but sadly we are way less than number one in most everything. The best doctors and healthcare system? France and Italy. Cuba actually has a very impressive health system and many countries send their doctors there for training. Again, sad but true. Hiding ones head in the sand and ignoring what goes on outside our borders is what we've been doing. I know it's not competition, per se, but it should at least be used as a measuring tool. I'm not under any delusion that we or myself are best in anything. Keeps me moving. Bob- Is this the Insurance List?This is why politics should be a No-No. It's 99% of the list now. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:48 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No kidding. No profits no medical advancements. Where do people go when they seek the best doctors and health system in the world? America. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance No, not that simple... On 12/7/09, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Exactly. We are the one and only industrialized country (with whatever industry we might have left) who puts profit in healthcare. As you stated, their goal is to NOT pay and they can and do come up with anything they can find to do that. Profit has no place in healthcare. Single payer is the only thing I see working. As far as increased taxes to pay for it, we already are paying for it and getting zero bang for our buck. As George from the great white north said, healthcare shows up nowhere in his budget. They just pay extra in taxes. Medicare for all. End of the controversy. Simple. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom Sharples Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance One of the basic probems IMO is that the whole idea of medical insurance, as currentlky implemented, is fundamentally flawed. Consider
Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
Matt, Please reread what I said. I wasn't commenting on the whole healthcare debate. I was talking about Cuba. CUBA CUBA CUBA. Do you get it now? Just CUBA. Reread the original post and get off your high horse. Have you noticed everyone else stopped replying to you. Everyone else, sorry, that's my last post on this topic no matter what Matt says next. Greg On Dec 8, 2009, at 9:05 PM, Matt Liotta wrote: On Dec 8, 2009, at 8:56 PM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Matt, Chill, you're taking a really harsh tone. I'm talking about Cuba because I know about that. I have many Latino friends. I speak Spanish. I know Cubans and I know a lot of people who have been to Cuba. You're putting words in my mouth. I'm not refuting all those other countries statistics. I thought you wanted debate of the facts. Or do you just want us to sit at your feet and listen? I do want to debate the facts, but you are responding with anecdotes. This is a standard straw-man used throughout the healthcare debate. I know person X from country Y that says this or had such and such happen to them. Such a statement can be true, but it is meaningless in the context of the debate. Such a situation needs to be statistically significant to matter. All systems have their flaws as no one believes a perfect system exists. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day!
Those currants are killers. Greg On Dec 10, 2009, at 10:17 AM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: As little as 1v with enough currant will kill you. It's not voltage that kills but rather the currant. It takes 200ma to stop your hear but to get that much to the hear you have a lot of resistance to overcome and with only a small amount of voltage you need a lot of juice. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:30:12 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day! 24 volts won't kill you. 25 volts will; with enough current. :-) At 10:00 PM 12/9/2009, you wrote: By low, I was talking about 24 volts. I know the electric company calls 120 volts. My point was I'm not taking a bucket near any electrical power lines, period. Thanks! On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: More people die every year from low voltage than from high. Or so I've been told. But that may not be quite right: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/98-131/epidemi.html#fig1 Still, far too many deaths from ALL voltages. marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day! Not near high power lines. With that said, your comments are very good advice and well taken. It wasnt long ago that a co-worker at the electric company I was at was killed up in a bucket. We should all take high power seriously. Thanks! On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: You mean to say that you've never ended up with the bucket or boom in a place that you didn't expect it to get? I sure have! marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day! On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$% day! One time, I had to borrow a friends bucket I'll assume you meant bucket truck. The day we bought our bucket truck and brought it home, I took a 3/8 drill bit to about 3 places in the bottom of the bucket to let water out. That's not a good idea. You now give a place for electricity to run through your body if you happen to move between a ground source and an electrical line. I've thought of doing that to my truck, but it's really not hard to just dump the buckets. I've worked for several electric companies and understand the reasoning behind this. But, if you dont use a bucket near high power lines then its not an issue. -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
[WISPA] Anyone have nanostation m5 in stock?
Just need two. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Anyone have nanostation m5 in stock?
Yeah, I'm doing Bullets to tide me over too. But with the bullets there's no mimo unfortunately. Sure wish there was an MT offering that had router board and radio (or RB and integrated radio) with enclosure antenna all for $100 or less. Oh yeah, and it be in stock more often then out of stock. Greg On Dec 11, 2009, at 11:46 AM, Robert West wrote: I was looking all over yesterday and the day before. Only found them in Europe so I gave up. Some UBNT stuff being delivered, from what I hear, first part of next week, dunno what though. So I'm back ordered on what I needed and installing bullets and grids till I get it. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Anyone have nanostation m5 in stock? Just need two. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Anyone have nanostation m5 in stock?
Just cost, less assembly and config Greg On Dec 11, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: Is there any compelling reason to stick with the Bullet as the CPE when the CPEs are out of stock? Is the only trade off of using another pmanufacturers product during those shortage periods just that you pay $30-$50 more diring that period? There is also a flip side... When CPEs are costing $100 instead of $500, you can plan to buy 5x more stock on the same cash flow budget to hold you over through stock shortages. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone have nanostation m5 in stock? I'm with ya. With MT, a 411 is around 50, the card 30 or so, then a mimo antenna ?? and shipping and you're way past the hundred. I talked to StreakWave this morning, salesman told me UBNT is making a push to always be in stock after the first of the year and if that's true, lots of my stress will be gone. We're in business to add and keep customers but it's hard to add when we can't put in a CPE and with all the substitutions I've put in it gets to be a hassle. People won't wait for an install. It's now or they go elsewhere. You know how it is, hate leaving money on the table. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone have nanostation m5 in stock? Yeah, I'm doing Bullets to tide me over too. But with the bullets there's no mimo unfortunately. Sure wish there was an MT offering that had router board and radio (or RB and integrated radio) with enclosure antenna all for $100 or less. Oh yeah, and it be in stock more often then out of stock. Greg On Dec 11, 2009, at 11:46 AM, Robert West wrote: I was looking all over yesterday and the day before. Only found them in Europe so I gave up. Some UBNT stuff being delivered, from what I hear, first part of next week, dunno what though. So I'm back ordered on what I needed and installing bullets and grids till I get it. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Anyone have nanostation m5 in stock? Just need two. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 5/15/2009 6:16 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Kabel-x ??
Is that for real? Reminds me of Google hoax internet technology commercial about using the sewer lines. It was a NIC you'd connect to your computer then flush down the toilet. Using dark sewer pipes they provided high speed internet. Greg On Dec 11, 2009, at 5:13 PM, Robert West wrote: I just saw this, found it interesting, not really wireless since it's wires but thought it to be a darned imaginative process to upgrade copper to fiber. http://www.kabel-x.com/ Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Kabel-x ??
http://www.google.com/tisp/ On Dec 11, 2009, at 8:09 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Fiber to the Toilet On 12/11/09, os10ru...@gmail.com os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Is that for real? Reminds me of Google hoax internet technology commercial about using the sewer lines. It was a NIC you'd connect to your computer then flush down the toilet. Using dark sewer pipes they provided high speed internet. Greg On Dec 11, 2009, at 5:13 PM, Robert West wrote: I just saw this, found it interesting, not really wireless since it's wires but thought it to be a darned imaginative process to upgrade copper to fiber. http://www.kabel-x.com/ Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT, help with mapping stuff
With Google Earth you can specify the cache size (make it big) and then zoom around the area you want while you're connected and you'll be able to see that area offline. Be careful - if you reconnect and zoom around someplace else you'll flush the good stuff out of the cache. Greg On Dec 12, 2009, at 9:35 AM, lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: Is there a versiom of Google maps that is freestanding that can be used on a laptop or PC without an Internet connection? I just need a small region like NYC or Washington DC Metro. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:06:32 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT, help with mapping stuff The suggestion to convert to Google Earth/Google Maps kml/kmz file format is probably best. The issue most will have is that different GPS companies can format the data differently for their particular GPS and even the same company can format it differently for various models. The Google mapping file formats seem to have become a defacto standard that most of the software packages support and can import and export. Converting to kmz will also allow the data to be shown easily in Goggle Earth and with a little programming can also be displayed in the Google Maps API on a web site. Nice thing about the Google Maps API is being able to display street maps, aerial images as well as terrain relief. There are plenty of ways to skin this cat and I am sure others with suggest their favorite tools of the trade. Whichever you chose just realize that you should do whatever supports the most brands of GPS's possible. Thank You, Brian Webster On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 6:18 PM, D. Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: If Mr Webster does not speak up. Perhaps I can help! ryan On Dec 11, 2009, at 2:58 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Hi All, I'm working on a trail system for our local Chamber of Commerce. We know the routes to be used etc. I've got a Garmin Etrex Summit and we've used that with TopoUSA to map the routes. I can't seem to figure out how to get that data into a format that others can use to download into their own GPS units and come out here to follow our routes. Ideally I'd like to find a way to get the GPS data off of the GPS unit and upload that to a file that others could import into their own GPS, Google maps, TopoUSA or whatever. Or, I could draw out the routes on Google maps, but I don't know how to do that or to export that data to something others could download. Anyone here good with such projects? thanks! marlon --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT, help with mapping stuff
One option would be to use the product Mapwel to make your own maps which then you could load into the other folk's Garmin GPSes. I don't know if this is more than you need. You'd need the advanced version of Mapwel so you can use the maps with any Garmin GPS. You can make the maps transparent so they'd overlay over the existing base map. The transparent map can be turned on and off. Though you'd be making a map, all it would have to contain is the data you want to overlay over the base map. Mapwel is a very simple program to use and what sets it apart from the others is it does the whole process of getting the map all the way into the GPS without needing other helper apps. You could import the data you have from your GPS, touch it up (add names, change how it will be displayed) and export the map. There's some learning curve but it's not too steep. What do you mean by routes? Is this for people to follow while driving/walking? If it's not too much data I could take a shot at doing what you'd need. I have the advanced version of the app. I use Mapwel to make maps of the area where I live because there are no existing maps. I have no connection, financial or other to this product or company. Greg On Dec 11, 2009, at 5:58 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I'm working on a trail system for our local Chamber of Commerce. We know the routes to be used etc. I've got a Garmin Etrex Summit and we've used that with TopoUSA to map the routes. I can't seem to figure out how to get that data into a format that others can use to download into their own GPS units and come out here to follow our routes. Ideally I'd like to find a way to get the GPS data off of the GPS unit and upload that to a file that others could import into their own GPS, Google maps, TopoUSA or whatever. Or, I could draw out the routes on Google maps, but I don't know how to do that or to export that data to something others could download. Anyone here good with such projects? thanks! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PTMP Antenna Selection
Professionally? Specifically a holder of which FCC license? On Dec 15, 2009, at 1:04 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: According to Ubiquiti themselves and the FCC: This equipment is required to be professionally installed The device has been designed to operate with the antennas listed below and having a maximum gain of 30dBi. Antennas not included in this list or having a gain greater than 30dBi are strictly prohibited for use with this device. The required antenna impedance is 50 ohms 2x2 Point-To-Point Use Ubiquiti RD-5G-30 Ubiquiti RP-5G-24 Ubiquiti AMS-5G-20 1x1 Point-To-Point Use Ubiquiti AG-5G-30 2x2 Point-To-MultiPoint Use Ubiquiti O-5G-7 Operation is restricted to Point-To-Point use for antenass other than the Ubiquiti O-5G-7 listed above. That means the only legal antenna is a 7db omni for PTMP use. Scott Piehn wrote: Looking for input on which antennas to use Was mentioned briefly on one of the lists that using a 16-120 instead of a 19-120 would give better coverage, We have 7 or so 19-120's deployed and they just seem to be very particular. seems about 60 degree wide, and 2 mile out sweet spot. Looking based on covering out to 5 miles max (think that is the current limit of NS5M) tower is 200 - 250 on a hill. could be up to 350' above people or tower (antenna) is 100' above people 360 degree around tower Apologies if this is the wrong list, can't keep them straight with what is allowed on which. - Scott Piehn WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PTMP Antenna Selection
Technically speaking? What about politics? : - ) Greg On Dec 15, 2009, at 11:12 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: I don't believe there is an official answer. I believe professional simply means someone that knows their rear from a hole in the ground. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:53 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti PTMP Antenna Selection Professionally? Specifically a holder of which FCC license? On Dec 15, 2009, at 1:04 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: According to Ubiquiti themselves and the FCC: This equipment is required to be professionally installed The device has been designed to operate with the antennas listed below and having a maximum gain of 30dBi. Antennas not included in this list or having a gain greater than 30dBi are strictly prohibited for use with this device. The required antenna impedance is 50 ohms 2x2 Point-To-Point Use Ubiquiti RD-5G-30 Ubiquiti RP-5G-24 Ubiquiti AMS-5G-20 1x1 Point-To-Point Use Ubiquiti AG-5G-30 2x2 Point-To-MultiPoint Use Ubiquiti O-5G-7 Operation is restricted to Point-To-Point use for antenass other than the Ubiquiti O-5G-7 listed above. That means the only legal antenna is a 7db omni for PTMP use. Scott Piehn wrote: Looking for input on which antennas to use Was mentioned briefly on one of the lists that using a 16-120 instead of a 19-120 would give better coverage, We have 7 or so 19-120's deployed and they just seem to be very particular. seems about 60 degree wide, and 2 mile out sweet spot. Looking based on covering out to 5 miles max (think that is the current limit of NS5M) tower is 200 - 250 on a hill. could be up to 350' above people or tower (antenna) is 100' above people 360 degree around tower Apologies if this is the wrong list, can't keep them straight with what is allowed on which. - Scott Piehn WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] metal building install
Be real careful the paint is not metallic. You might want to spray something microwave safe and put it in the microwave oven to see if it gets hot or sparks for a test. You could end up losing a lot of db in the paint. Greg On Jan 7, 2009, at 5:34 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote: I'm just trying to picture a brushed stainless steel wall... I don't know if I have seen a building like that before (at least one that wasn't super modern). The cheapest solution is going to be a silver colored spray paint... after that I can't think of anything good. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jim Patient Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] metal building install I don't have a picture handy. There isn't much to see though. It is just a plain stainless steel wall at the areas the antennas are going. Jim 3-dB Networks wrote: Can you provide a picture of the building? Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jim Patient Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] metal building install We have a project to install 5GHz sectors on a large beautiful building that has brushed stainless sheeting on the sides. The antennas must be installed on the outside walls and cannot be higher than the sides. They want the antennas to be hidden or as non-obtrusive as possible. Anyone got any ideas on how to cover, hide, or camouflage the antennas? There will be 3 sectors on each side. If anyone has done something like this and would care to share pictures, that would be great. Jim WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barracuda outbounds SPAM filter any good?
Do you block smtp on non-standard ports? Is SSL filtering necessary (gmail smtp is over ssl for example)? Greg On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone use the Barracuda's for outbound spam filtering and is it as good as the inbound version? I need to keep my mail server from getting blacklisted and am looking for a way to do it. Apparently someone is using my server to relay spam, (I am using pop before smtp so they must be authenticating first.) Also is it possible to use the outbound if you have outsourced email services, aka Jumpline ??? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FM radio station site strangeness
I'm sure if you looked at it on a spectrum analyzer you'd see the signal occupies a wide band of frequencies, hence it's probably susceptible to interference on a wide range of frequencies. Greg On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:54 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: OK, can we put this in plain English? What freq. does 100meg ethernet in full or half duplex marlon - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM radio station site strangeness With 100BASE-TX hardware, the raw bits (4 bits wide clocked at *25 MHz* at the MII) go through 4B5B http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4B5B binary encoding to generate a series of 0 and 1 symbols clocked at *125 MHz* symbol ratehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol_rate. The 4B5B encoding provides DC equalization and spectrum shaping (see the standard for details)[*citation neededhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed *]. Just as in the 100BASE-FX case, the bits are then transferred to the physical medium attachment layer using NRZIhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NRZIencoding. However, 100BASE-TX introduces an additional, medium dependent sublayer, which employs MLT-3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLT-3 as a final encoding of the data stream before transmission, resulting in a maximum fundamental frequency of* 31.25 MHz*. The procedure is borrowed from the ANSI X3.263 FDDI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FDDIspecifications, with minor discrepancies. [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Ethernet#cite_note-mlt3-2 Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Ethernet Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:02 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: So far all I can find on the internet is that ethernet is at either 12.5 or 31.25mhz. NOT 350, that's gigE, not 10/100. Also, this tower is a 100' wooden pole. Can't move anywhere really. marlon - Original Message - From: Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM radio station site strangeness It also sounds like there is a new leak in the waveguide. One more thing you might try is to move the cable from leg to leg on the tower so that you variable length sections that do not resonate at 350MHz or ~100MHz (FM transminssion). On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Adam Goodman a...@wispring.com wrote: We also colocate with an FM transmitter. Only 1300W though. we also had interference on our Ethernet lines. We solved it by moving radios away from the FM antenna (3 feet or so on a 90' tower) We also installed ferrits which helped (I actually used a conduit pipe). Grounding the cat5 helped too. I would think that if you find that you need more shielding. put all your cat5 cables in a conduit and install abreakout box at the top of the tower. If your area is prone to electrical storms (where isn't these days?!) you will at some point be very sorry you didn't grount (and well!!) On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Hi All, I think we finally have this all figured out. Now I just have to figure out how to fix it. We've been up there for over 6 years now. It's certainly been a problematic site though. Constant channel changes (we have 3 competitors a mile away and pick up hundreds of ap's from in town) are the norm. This fall (a month or two ago) one of the tenants left the building. This cleared out most of the hardware that was in there. A little bit before that I replaced an Inscape Data and a smartBridges combo with a single MT access point, using one of the cables that had been working for one of the other two. About a week ago things started to really act up. Multiple devices were having trouble. I was able to catch it in the act finally. This time the problem wasn't a wireless issue, the devices were constantly disconnecting and reconnecting at the switch level. I pulled the Cisco switch out and dropped in a Netgear unit. That didn't fix it. Next I put in a Digital Loggers rack mount reboot device. That wouldn't connect right either. I finally had to pull all of the hardware off of the shelf and set most of it on the floor (or just let it hang there) to get it working at all well. Still not perfect but better. I had by now hiked up there through sometimes knee deep snow 3 or 4 times. Next I took a motorbike with studded snow tires up and got permission to turn down the power to the radio station. That didn't fix the problem either. Next I borrowed a snowmobile
Re: [WISPA] Barracuda outbounds SPAM filter any good?
That should be easy. I've never used Barracuda but I have used the Sonicwall and also open hardware based UTMs such as Astaro, Endian, Untangle and ClarkConnect. Any decent solution should work. Do you already own the Barracuda? If not you might want to consider using an old PC with Untangle on it since it's free. Greg On Jan 8, 2009, at 9:25 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I block all outgoing port 25 except to my email server and a few other email servers that my customers use. That stopped it for about 1-2 years now someone is authorizing on my email server and then using it to relay because I've been getting 400-800 mail delivery failures from their dictionary spam attack to my postmaster account. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barracuda outbounds SPAM filter any good? Do you block smtp on non-standard ports? Is SSL filtering necessary (gmail smtp is over ssl for example)? Greg On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone use the Barracuda's for outbound spam filtering and is it as good as the inbound version? I need to keep my mail server from getting blacklisted and am looking for a way to do it. Apparently someone is using my server to relay spam, (I am using pop before smtp so they must be authenticating first.) Also is it possible to use the outbound if you have outsourced email services, aka Jumpline ??? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barracuda outbounds SPAM filter any good?
Kurt, Will getting the Barracuda outbound require more hardware or is it just a service you can turn on with the current hardware for a fee? I'm not familiar with the Barracuda but I would assume there's nothing you have to set up as long as nobody is doing ssl. These boxes can watch the smtp traffic without needing to manually configured and without needing to configure the client to use the box as a proxy. It will just watch the traffic and kill it if it's bad. It's good to use a service that updates it's blacklist and virus defs often. I'm running the Astaro ASG here and it usually gets a few updates each day. Greg On Jan 8, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Don't have the outbound barracuda yet, I do have an inbound. How do you point your mail to go to the outbound? Do you have your firewall redirect all port 25 to the outbound or do you tell you email server to relay to the outbound? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:18 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barracuda outbounds SPAM filter any good? That should be easy. I've never used Barracuda but I have used the Sonicwall and also open hardware based UTMs such as Astaro, Endian, Untangle and ClarkConnect. Any decent solution should work. Do you already own the Barracuda? If not you might want to consider using an old PC with Untangle on it since it's free. Greg On Jan 8, 2009, at 9:25 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I block all outgoing port 25 except to my email server and a few other email servers that my customers use. That stopped it for about 1-2 years now someone is authorizing on my email server and then using it to relay because I've been getting 400-800 mail delivery failures from their dictionary spam attack to my postmaster account. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barracuda outbounds SPAM filter any good? Do you block smtp on non-standard ports? Is SSL filtering necessary (gmail smtp is over ssl for example)? Greg On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone use the Barracuda's for outbound spam filtering and is it as good as the inbound version? I need to keep my mail server from getting blacklisted and am looking for a way to do it. Apparently someone is using my server to relay spam, (I am using pop before smtp so they must be authenticating first.) Also is it possible to use the outbound if you have outsourced email services, aka Jumpline ??? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Barracuda outbounds SPAM filter any good?
I agree, those dedicated boxes are expensive and then there's the annual fee as well correct? I think I'd go with Endian on a PC. Is your spam assassin running native or as a virtual machine? Greg On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:32 PM, David E. Smith wrote: os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Will getting the Barracuda outbound require more hardware or is it just a service you can turn on with the current hardware for a fee? It's the same hardware, but you can't use one Barracuda to do both jobs. You buy one, and you can switch the software from inbound to outbound (and back again). I've been having similar issues to the OP. Several of my users' passwords have been compromised by horribly-screwed-up desktops, with spyware and viruses galore. The attackers (all of whom are coming from Nigerian IP space) log in via our Web site, and cut-and-paste spam that way. Since it comes from an authenticated user, it circumvents most of my normal spam filtering measures. I've recently added SpamAssassin to my big all our outgoing mail goes through here server, set with very generous settings. I'm hoping that's sufficient, because I really don't want to buy a third Barracuda. (We already have two for inbound email, and they work quite well there; I assume one switched to outbound-scanning mode would work equally well.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Barracuda outbounds SPAM filter any good?
It sounds like what you really have to do is tighten up your webmail. It's better to fix that than to put a band-aid on it. Though a good smtp spam filter is never a bad idea. Greg On Jan 8, 2009, at 4:37 PM, David E. Smith wrote: os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: I agree, those dedicated boxes are expensive and then there's the annual fee as well correct? Yeah, you'd have to keep up the Barracuda subscription on your outgoing filter as well, if you want to block current viruses and such from leaving your network. I think I'd go with Endian on a PC. Is your spam assassin running native or as a virtual machine? My copy of SpamAssassin is on a (virtualized, but that shouldn't matter) CentOS Linux system. I've basically disabled all the per-user stuff, and used a fairly relaxed scoring setup. Since it'll be silently discarding mail, I want to be pretty darn sure it's not discarding false- positives. Aside from a few edge cases, the whole thing works pretty well and only took me a few hours to figure out. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [isp-wireless] FM radio station site strangeness
Is using fiber-optic cable out of the question? Greg On Jan 9, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Thanks Mike, The change to 10 meg half doesn't help. In fact, most devices won't connect at all then. The worst part is that the most expensive gear is most effected by this! ug I have installed ferrite beads that do indeed help. Apryl can get you the contact info and part number. 509.982.2181 The shielded cable from Shierene just came in. And I have permission to move to the other side of the building. When the snow melts and the ground firms up I'll rebuild the entire site. The radio station has a new transmitter since I first went into the site and another tenant recently left. I have more location options now than I did before. Yesterday I did some testing with a Fluke DTX. It's a crazy meter. Checks just about everything. As it well should for $7000. Know what it doesn't check very well though? Inductive RF. gr There is one test that showed some problems though. It's called an inductive pulse. Readings at another tower I have (and the tech support guy at Fluke) were 0. This tower had a reading of nearly 3000! Fluke is supposed to find out what an acceptable level would be and send that info to me. I've not heard from them yet though. The tech's guess was around 30mV. I did think it strange that when I tested my cable with a volt meter (one end to ground, the other to the connectors on the cat5) I was picking up 2 to 3 volts on each pin. That pretty well seems to line up with the 3000mV reading from the fluke! This site has always been a source of grief for me. Must less reliable than nearly any other I have, no matter what equipment is used. I always thought it was due to all of the other operators in the area (one's been fined by the FCC for using illegal amps etc.) doing silly things. Though nothing THAT bad has ever showed up on my analyzer. I always thought it was something that only the customer end could see (couldn't find that on the analyzer either though). Maybe my problem has always been the radio station stuff. Wouldn't that be great? FINALLY, a network reliable enough to allow me to take a vacation. grin laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Cowan ispwireless-li...@wirelessconnections.net To: isp-wirel...@isp-wireless.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 1:40 AM Subject: RE: [isp-wireless] FM radio station site strangeness Hi Marlon, It looks like you are on your way to solving this. To get by until then you might want to try locking the Ethernet side to 10MB 1/2 duplex. FM radio runs around 100mhz at high power levels, well so does a 100MB Ethernet connection, it communicates at 10mhz. 10MB 1/2 runs at 66mhz I believe. Fixing it is really black magic however. Sometimes grounding helps, sometimes it is better without. Many have placed the cable in conduit, with mixed success. I would be very interested if the ferits help, we have tried a few with inconclusive results, but have not found a quality unit to test with either. Mike Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell 419-668-4077 Fax mi...@wirelessconnections.net www.wirelessconnections.net -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:o...@odessaoffice.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 10:47 AM To: isp-wirel...@isp-wireless.com Cc: isp-wirel...@isp-wireless.com Subject: [isp-wireless] FM radio station site strangeness Hi All, I think we finally have this all figured out. Now I just have to figure out how to fix it. ___ The ISP-WIRELESS Discussion List ___ To Join: mailto:join-isp-wirel...@isp-wireless.com To Remove: mailto:remove-isp-wirel...@isp-wireless.com Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-wireless/archives/ To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with. Copyright 2007 Jupitermedia Corporation All Rights Reserved. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Emailing: DSC_2282.JPG, DSC_2244.JPG, DSC_2251.JPG, DSC_2257.JPG, DSC_2262.JPG, DSC_2264.JPG, DSC_2270.JPG, DSC_2273.JPG
I think you'll find the products which are sold as inverters (Xantrex for example) which have built in battery chargers will have a quicker recharge time because they are engineered for folks who run a generator for a few hours and then invert off the batteries the rest of the time. Most battery backup units are engineered with the idea that grid power will almost always be available except for a rare occasion so they invest very little in the battery charger which is typically a very slow trickle charger. Greg On Jan 17, 2009, at 1:35 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: This freezing fog is very pretty but boy is it making a mess of things up here! Found out that battery backup units die faster than they can be charged! snip WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] We're being DDOS'd by DC!
You could use a real inverter which has a higher capacity charger built in (much faster recovery time). Another advantage of an inverter is the batteries are sold separately so you can size them accordingly. You could have much longer run time on the batteries. Though having lead acid batteries on site might be an issue and large gelled cell batteries are expensive. Maybe it wouldn't be cost effective to use such a system for the rare power outage. This little unit delivers 1000 watts continuous (3000 watts surge) and has a 50 amp battery charger. http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/55/p/1/pt/9/product.asp Greg On Jan 21, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: Batteries won't last more then a few hours. Our NOC uses 300 watts and we have a 2200va UP - about 1h 15h run time until generators come into play. On 1/21/09, George Rogato wi...@oregonfast.net wrote: Don't you have battery back ups? Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Looks pretty normal around here. But some of our towers are offline again due to all of the power outages. marlon - Original Message - From: Eric Tykwinski eric-l...@truenet.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] We're being DDOS'd by DC! Everyone on NANOG has been saying the same. We're actually seeing close to triple on downloading today, starting about 9AM EST. Thankfully no issues on capacity at all on our end... I'm actually surprised the sites serving the videos aren't having any issues yet. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] We're being DDOS'd by DC! Not really, but is everyone else seeing lots of extra traffic from people streaming inauguration-related events in DC? My network is pulling basically double the traffic of a normal Tuesday. (There's a lesson about capacity planning in here somewhere...) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Employee Tracking Program
FYI there's also a semi-official hack (information is on their forum: forums.untangle.com) about how to install ntop reporting as well. Hopefully that as well as more detailed reporting will be included in future releases. I participated in the recent Astaro beta and that really spoiled me. It has much better reporting (by user, by domain, etc) and the content filtering is better and more stable in my opinion but it's very expensive to buy. So I run Untangle here. Greg On Jan 23, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Eric Rogers wrote: I just wanted to follow up for those that are interested. I included the original email below, but I will summarize. I was asked to find a way to log where employees are going on the internet. I took the many suggestions of NTop, PRTG, using NetFlow data and a reporting server, etc. They worked, but not exactly the simple reporting the employer wanted. What I stumbled across is a program called Untangle. It is a unix load and very nicely done http://www.untangle.com. Very secure. It is a transparent bridge that also does firewalling and is a content firewall. I loaded it onto a 1U old Dell server they retired. We turned all of the blocking rules to log, so it was totally transparent to the users. It logs where each workstation went on the internet for about 2 months. Now that they have collected the information, they have confronted the employees and at least made it public they were being watched. Then turned it onto blocking the sites they were wasting time. It also now blocks the spyware that was running rampant on their network. Best of all, Untangle is free, and open source. There are other Pay For devices like Barracuda Web (310) is similar, but is routinely maintained. They are also great products. Once this server outlives its life, they will probably move up to the Barracuda for better reporting and constant updates. Anyone that does want more information, I can send screenshots and/or answer questions should they arise later. Thanks, Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Eric Rogers Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Employee Tracking Program I have a company that would like to track real-time and summary information of internet activity of it's employees (by IP). They are looking for summary information, not email content/instant messenger chats/passwords. What would be ideal would be a passive device that acts like a sniffer that either hits layer 7 and reads the www.xx.com from the data portion of the packets, or just looks at the DNS traffic, tracks IPs and reports it. Maybe even amount of bandwidth spent at each IP... or something of that nature. Any ideas? I have recommended software that is a keylogger and recorder, but they want something that is totally transparent, i.e. sniffer. Thanks, Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Nanostation support, tips, etc.
Is anyone using the NS2 or NS5 where the AP's are a mesh network, or is everyone using AP's with backhauls? I want to try a mesh network with the NS2. It looks like the firmware options are open-mesh or something proprietary such as http://kalpeshwireless.com/overview.htm. I've contacted Kalpesh to see if the firmware is available separately and they haven't responded. Greg On Jan 26, 2009, at 5:01 PM, David Hulsebus wrote: We have about fifty NS5's in place. No more than 10 on any AP and all using the NS5 as the AP. The only issue I have had appears to be firmware related on the last group of 10 units we got at the end of the year. Carl at Steakwave and Mike Ford, at Ubiquiti, took care of the issue in a few minutes, with a phone call, a discussion of the issues, and a follow up e-mail from Mike. I've had one RMA direct to Ubiquiti a few months ago for an ethernet port issue. We run EWMA and normal 802 traffic, also 5MHz channel width. Nothing else special. I have a router behind the AP's so they are a bridge. Dave e...@wisp-router.com wrote: That is where you should RMA things to first. As well first place to get technical support after checking on their forums. Ourselves we have a dedicated support department to handle your questions. Just have invoice number or serial number handy when calling to speed up support questions. Eje Gustafsson CTO WISP-Router, Inc. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:40:13 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nanostation support, tips, etc. RMA to Ubiquiti? Wouldnt you RMA to the distributor you purchased it from? -RickG On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 1:20 AM, rabbtux rabbtux rabb...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone ever rma a Nanostation? Ubiquity good to work with? On 1/25/09, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Just remember to use Eje's POE calculator first! :) On 1/26/09, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Pretty happy with the dozen or so we have out there. No issues at all other than one on a 350' run of cat5 that needed at 24V power supply to be stable. Forrest pulled one apart and said the power supply max is around 18V so use caution on overpowering. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 8:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nanostation support, tips, etc. Yes, it does. runs over 200ft have been unreliable with the 12VDC supply. Needing power cycling 2-3 times a day. Josh Luthman wrote: I don't believe you'll lose voltage over a 150 ft line when you're only pulling an amp or two, but I could be wrong. Have you experienced something that proves me wrong? On 1/25/09, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net mailto:the...@wmwisp.net wrote: Use a hose clamp, instead of the included zip ties, to mount outdoors. If network cable is longer than 150ft, use an 18VDC power supply instead of the included 12VDC supply. If talking to an older 'B' only AP, set the radios to 'B' only mode. Adaptive antenna mode is not worth using. Make sure to update units to 3.x.x firmware. Many are still shipping with 2.1.x. All this is for the NS2 units. I've never used the NS5's. Good support, via their fourm. Haven't had and DOA's or needed to RMA any of these yet. rabbtux rabbtux wrote: We are considering using these units for 2 and 5 GHz Cpe. What is your experience with ubiquiti support, failure rates, and any deployment tips? I sure like what we see in our evaluation. Thanks in advance, Marshall WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Point to point links, NLOS
On Feb 5, 2009, at 10:53 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Isn't this controlled by the frequency like 900, 2.4, 5.8? I wasn't aware that a higher gain antenna would widen the beam. The higher gain is achieved by focusing the power into a smaller area. Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] AP using Mikrotik Routerboard
Can you tell me which in radio Ethernet protectors you use? Thanks! Greg On Feb 10, 2009, at 1:04 AM, Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs wrote: Not wishing to say anyone does a better job or worse. One of the biggest mistakes I have seen is the plastic standoffs. Not only do they fail, but they are not grounding the board typically! I see lots of people using the little 1/2 moon power injectors. They are super cheap, and by the way, they are super cheap. We use POE with Surge Suppression Injectors. You would be surprised how often they protect gear. We have in radio Ethernet surge units as well. we have got units back with this ethernet surge unit melted down to goo.. ya goo. Unplugged it, and plugged the radio right into the POE, well a new one, and bingo powers right back on! All of these things along with the build quality. If you get free builds, that don't mean its good or proper, if you pay for your builds, same difference. compare everyone! -- * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp/* Josh Luthman wrote: My experiences say don't use Streakwave On 2/9/09, Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net wrote: Streakwave and Quicklink wireless both do. I have good results with both of them as well as Wisp-Router. Phil Curnutt wrote: Does anyone produce a complete Mikrotik Routerboard Access Point- ie.- routerboard, radio cards, pigtails, enclosure etc.? Phil WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1934 - Release Date: 2/4/2009 8:24 AM -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] test
Yeah, I notice I don't receive copies of the messages I send. But I see replies so I know they go through. Greg On Feb 10, 2009, at 7:06 PM, Phil Curnutt wrote: And it went through. Phil On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote: I've sent several replies to the list today and none of them have shown up. So here is a test. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Angry IP Scanner
What about the Mac OS? I has Linuxy goodness with lots of apps. Greg On Feb 11, 2009, at 3:01 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: Virtualization. Not only does it make things a lot easier to backup and move. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote: I would love to use Linux but being a PC retailer as well I don't want to support multiple OS's. Besides my bosses pet 12 year old accounting program requires windows and barely runs in it. Steve Barnes Executive Manager PCS-WIN RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Angry IP Scanner I'll refrain from entering Linux vs. Windows. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Angry IP Scanner Run Linux, no anti virus software... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: I like to use Avast. It has a nice boot time scanner that will run before Windows loads anything. It runs when scandisk would otherwise run. I don't think it's missed anything yet. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:14 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Angry IP Scanner Actually I really like the 2009 Norton Products. It eats 10% of the memory Norton 2008 did and kicks butt on finding stuff. I've been giving AVG away and they called me and said that's a NO-NO besides that makes no revenue stream. I sold 20 copies last week and have had 2 of them call and say that it has cleaned the malware Antivirus 2009 and the new variant Antivirus 360. AVG and others have not been able to do that. Steve Barnes Executive Manager PCS-WIN RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Angry IP Scanner A better recommendation would be to switch from Norton. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:52 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Angry IP Scanner We have used angry IPSCANNER for years around the office for years to do odds and ends IP scans. Norton Anti-everything hates it and the new 2009 version wont let me exclude it. Anybody have a program like it (windows) that I might Try that you like. Steve Barnes Executive Manager PCS-WIN RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
[WISPA] RouterOS x86 for Skype QoS?
Does anyone have experience using RouterOS (on RouterBoard or x86) for doing Skype QoS? I've been trying many different Linux based servers (ZeroShell, pfsense, Endian, ClarkConnect specifically for achieving good QoS with Skype - more specifically to keep the P2P stuff from killing Skype - and so far nothing is performing as well as little router with Tomato firmware and it's QoS. The problem is having the layer 7 sniffer properly detect and categorize Skype and uTorrent. I'm getting ready to try RouterOS (x86) and Wolverine. Does anyone have any success stories? Thanks! Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RouterOS x86 for Skype QoS?
The problem I'm having is Skype is not impossible to detect, but it is difficult and some QoS mechanisms miss it because it's designed to be hard to detect and stop so it can slip out networks where the admin tries to block IM apps. The better network security devices and detect and filter or QoS it. But Skype doesn't use TOS or other QoS prioritizing bits and it greatly varies the ports it uses in an effort to not reveal itself. It's really quite amazing, if you have an internet connection but you have a DNS issue (no DNS info being propagated by DHCP for example) it will still find it's way out and connect. It's one quick indication of a good network with bad DNS. Another problem is the newer P2P apps do likewise (random ports, nondescript packets/data) in an effort to prevent ISP operators from blocking or limiting it. So it's a continual game of cat and mouse between the program authors and the net admin folks trying to detect and control these things. Greg On Feb 13, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Eric Rogers wrote: Have you done any packet captures? If it is a small site, you might be able to look at the TOS bit and prioritize accordingly. If you see a DSCP (TOS) of 46, I assume it is VoIP and tag it for queues. In Mikrotik, there is a connection type option, and SIP is one of the options. I also tag that one and set it to VoIP for the QoS rules. It gets most traffic, but don't know about Skype. Eric -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:18 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] RouterOS x86 for Skype QoS? Does anyone have experience using RouterOS (on RouterBoard or x86) for doing Skype QoS? I've been trying many different Linux based servers (ZeroShell, pfsense, Endian, ClarkConnect specifically for achieving good QoS with Skype - more specifically to keep the P2P stuff from killing Skype - and so far nothing is performing as well as little router with Tomato firmware and it's QoS. The problem is having the layer 7 sniffer properly detect and categorize Skype and uTorrent. I'm getting ready to try RouterOS (x86) and Wolverine. Does anyone have any success stories? Thanks! Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RouterOS x86 for Skype QoS?
I put dns, email (ports 25, 110, 143, 465, 587, 993, 995) and voip (sip, h323, skype) at the top or maybe email just below voip and dns; web ssl and uncategorized in the middle of the range; and p2p at the bottom. Greg On Feb 13, 2009, at 11:09 PM, RickG wrote: Since we're on the subject, and RouterOS, what priorities do you put on your traffic? Web, pop3, smtp, dns, icmp, ssl, ftp, snmp, etc... -RickG On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: RouterOS can identify Skype at layer 7 as well. . * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: The problem I'm having is Skype is not impossible to detect, but it is difficult and some QoS mechanisms miss it because it's designed to be hard to detect and stop so it can slip out networks where the admin tries to block IM apps. The better network security devices and detect and filter or QoS it. But Skype doesn't use TOS or other QoS prioritizing bits and it greatly varies the ports it uses in an effort to not reveal itself. It's really quite amazing, if you have an internet connection but you have a DNS issue (no DNS info being propagated by DHCP for example) it will still find it's way out and connect. It's one quick indication of a good network with bad DNS. Another problem is the newer P2P apps do likewise (random ports, nondescript packets/data) in an effort to prevent ISP operators from blocking or limiting it. So it's a continual game of cat and mouse between the program authors and the net admin folks trying to detect and control these things. Greg On Feb 13, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Eric Rogers wrote: Have you done any packet captures? If it is a small site, you might be able to look at the TOS bit and prioritize accordingly. If you see a DSCP (TOS) of 46, I assume it is VoIP and tag it for queues. In Mikrotik, there is a connection type option, and SIP is one of the options. I also tag that one and set it to VoIP for the QoS rules. It gets most traffic, but don't know about Skype. Eric -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:18 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] RouterOS x86 for Skype QoS? Does anyone have experience using RouterOS (on RouterBoard or x86) for doing Skype QoS? I've been trying many different Linux based servers (ZeroShell, pfsense, Endian, ClarkConnect specifically for achieving good QoS with Skype - more specifically to keep the P2P stuff from killing Skype - and so far nothing is performing as well as little router with Tomato firmware and it's QoS. The problem is having the layer 7 sniffer properly detect and categorize Skype and uTorrent. I'm getting ready to try RouterOS (x86) and Wolverine. Does anyone have any success stories? Thanks! Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] RouterOS x86 for Skype QoS?
Thanks! Greg On Feb 14, 2009, at 10:16 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: I STRONGLY suggest you put email at 2 if voip is going to be 1. DNS can stay at 1, though. You don't need jitter every time someone sends or receives an email message. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 7:32 AM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: I put dns, email (ports 25, 110, 143, 465, 587, 993, 995) and voip (sip, h323, skype) at the top or maybe email just below voip and dns; web ssl and uncategorized in the middle of the range; and p2p at the bottom. Greg On Feb 13, 2009, at 11:09 PM, RickG wrote: Since we're on the subject, and RouterOS, what priorities do you put on your traffic? Web, pop3, smtp, dns, icmp, ssl, ftp, snmp, etc... -RickG On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: RouterOS can identify Skype at layer 7 as well. . * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: The problem I'm having is Skype is not impossible to detect, but it is difficult and some QoS mechanisms miss it because it's designed to be hard to detect and stop so it can slip out networks where the admin tries to block IM apps. The better network security devices and detect and filter or QoS it. But Skype doesn't use TOS or other QoS prioritizing bits and it greatly varies the ports it uses in an effort to not reveal itself. It's really quite amazing, if you have an internet connection but you have a DNS issue (no DNS info being propagated by DHCP for example) it will still find it's way out and connect. It's one quick indication of a good network with bad DNS. Another problem is the newer P2P apps do likewise (random ports, nondescript packets/data) in an effort to prevent ISP operators from blocking or limiting it. So it's a continual game of cat and mouse between the program authors and the net admin folks trying to detect and control these things. Greg On Feb 13, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Eric Rogers wrote: Have you done any packet captures? If it is a small site, you might be able to look at the TOS bit and prioritize accordingly. If you see a DSCP (TOS) of 46, I assume it is VoIP and tag it for queues. In Mikrotik, there is a connection type option, and SIP is one of the options. I also tag that one and set it to VoIP for the QoS rules. It gets most traffic, but don't know about Skype. Eric -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:18 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] RouterOS x86 for Skype QoS? Does anyone have experience using RouterOS (on RouterBoard or x86) for doing Skype QoS? I've been trying many different Linux based servers (ZeroShell, pfsense, Endian, ClarkConnect specifically for achieving good QoS with Skype - more specifically to keep the P2P stuff from killing Skype - and so far nothing is performing as well as little router with Tomato firmware and it's QoS. The problem is having the layer 7 sniffer properly detect and categorize Skype and uTorrent. I'm getting ready to try RouterOS (x86) and Wolverine. Does anyone have any success stories? Thanks! Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
I haven't used this stuff but I've been researching it and have contacted the companies. One is some ready-made two radio (2.4ghz for clients, 5ghz for backhaul) mesh hardware from Wiligear http://www.wiligear.com/?q=products/mesh/wbd-212 which still requires to you package it up (enclosure, antennas, poe) and another possibility in the future is a single radio option http://open-mesh.com/ . Their web site only shows low end consumer hardware but they are working on a firmware for the Picostation2 HP to be available soon so this one isn't available just yet. They don't foresee support for the NS2 because it doesn't have enough memory. One more option which is the most plug and play of the alternatives I know of is http://www.kalpeshwireless.com/ . You can buy the NS2s from them with their firmware preloaded or load it yourself if you already have the hardware. You can manage the whole network through the web (their servers). This is available immediately. I will be trying this last option myself in the near future. Greg On Feb 17, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote: Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for kicks. Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have some fun. I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free. Was hoping there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT). Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be cool. How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on those that could mesh? Very new to mesh - thanks in advance. `S PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which ! = MT. (: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
One more thing I forgot, if you want to use something that is more experimental, more do-it-yourself and which supports a greater variety of hardware there is OpenWRT's firmware with mesh and also http://nightwing.lugro-mesh.org.ar/en/ . These are options using routing options such as BATMAN/Robin, OLSRd and such. As I understand it in true mesh the boxes run in the ad hoc mode instead of wds which reduces redundant retransmission resulting in better throughput. Greg On Feb 17, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote: Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for kicks. Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have some fun. I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free. Was hoping there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT). Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be cool. How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on those that could mesh? Very new to mesh - thanks in advance. `S PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which ! = MT. (: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Mr. Burgess, What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point. Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that bad? Greg On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote: Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution. Been there done that and it works :) * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. e...@wisp-router.com wrote: MT and a consultant ;) /me laughing while running for cover Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for kicks. Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have some fun. I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free. Was hoping there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT). Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be cool. How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on those that could mesh? Very new to mesh - thanks in advance. `S PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT. (: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks! I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version on an old PC first. Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the something very small and simple. Thanks for the push! Greg On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote: The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup. If you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic, maybe. lol. There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you can use Winbox for all configuration changes. The web interface is not the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to implement it. its not paste it in and magic happens. As far as making the leap, man I don't think so. Eje I am sure would agree there? * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Mr. Burgess, What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point. Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that bad? Greg On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote: Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution. Been there done that and it works :) * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. e...@wisp-router.com wrote: MT and a consultant ;) /me laughing while running for cover Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for kicks. Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have some fun. I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free. Was hoping there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT). Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be cool. How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on those that could mesh? Very new to mesh - thanks in advance. `S PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which !=
Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Mr. Bledsoe, I've heard it said that WDS isn't the best option for mesh because under WDS each AP is going to repeat every packet regardless of the physical location and whether or not the data needs to pass that AP in order to get from the gateway AP to the AP the client for whom the data is for is associated with. It sounds like WDS works because of a shotgun approach, and routing be it STP or what ever just prevents loops. The folks that say this claim that for the best mesh performance, for true mesh one must use the adhoc mode so that only the AP nodes in the route of the data flow transmit that data. The folks that say this claim that WDS is not mesh, at least in their book. Would you concur? Greg On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote: Well there is also the mesh part too. Is this what you guys are talking about when you say MT mesh: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds If so, I would disagree that this is a good mesh implementation. There are many, many more factors to consider when building an infrastructure mesh. The LigoMesh products take into account signal strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best path. Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set to give high performance. On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and outdoor selections). I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and there is certainly a place for each one. Just be sure you know what you are getting! -Hal -Original Message- From: os10ru...@gmail.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430 Mr. Burgess, What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point. Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that bad? Greg On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote: Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution. Been there done that and it works :) * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. e...@wisp-router.com wrote: MT and a consultant ;) /me laughing while running for cover Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for kicks. Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have some fun. I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free. Was hoping there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT). Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be cool. How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on those that could mesh? Very new to mesh - thanks in advance. `S PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want
Re: [WISPA] Another online backup thread
Amazon's S3 service is very inexpensive and well done. There are many different clients out there which work with S3. I like Mozy but I think Amazon is more likely to be around in the long haul (too big to fail?). Greg On Feb 17, 2009, at 4:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: I'm looking at remote-backup.com. It seems to be what I'm looking for, but I'd like to know what other, similar options are out there. It must not be cumbersome for either myself or the client. It must have encryption at all levels (transport and storage). It must have sold online backup in mind, not an enterprise backup program. It must work on Windows clients, hopefully Linux clients too. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Another online backup thread
Yeah, that too big to fail thing was a bit of a joke, but they probably have stronger fundamentals than Mozy. The only thing I like about off site storage is you could have a devastating disaster (fire, hurricane/tornado etc) and lose it all. Amazon's S3 is probably in a different geographical region so at least your data would be safe. Greg On Feb 17, 2009, at 4:24 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: While I believe Amazon will survive there is no such thing as too big to fail... Mike's own server ensures that as long as Mike is there, the data is there. I backup my servers to my own server for this reason in addition to the capability and locality of the data. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 3:51 PM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Amazon's S3 service is very inexpensive and well done. There are many different clients out there which work with S3. I like Mozy but I think Amazon is more likely to be around in the long haul (too big to fail?). Greg On Feb 17, 2009, at 4:09 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: I'm looking at remote-backup.com. It seems to be what I'm looking for, but I'd like to know what other, similar options are out there. It must not be cumbersome for either myself or the client. It must have encryption at all levels (transport and storage). It must have sold online backup in mind, not an enterprise backup program. It must work on Windows clients, hopefully Linux clients too. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Mr. Larsen, Thanks. I've heard very good things about StarOS as well. It certainly has it's devotees. But as you mentioned Valemount doesn't have the presence in the marketplace that Mikrotik has and that makes me wonder what kind of position Valemount will be in a number of years down the road. I don't change my equipment because of growing demand, I tend to use it till its end of life so I think about long term support and firmware updates etc. I will give StarOS a good look before I make any decision. I'm hoping that as the Ubiquiti line matures they'll incorporate some of the better features of RouterOS and StarOS though maybe they plan to just stay in the simple AP and CPE market rather that compete head to head with Mikrotik and Valemount. Greg On Feb 17, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Don't drink the Mikrotik kool-aid just yet. You should probably give some consideration to StarOS. StarOS has an excellent industry standard mesh routing protocol built in - OLSR - and the popular X4000 platform is very low cost (~$350 or so in a four radio configuration). I tried Mikrotik and went back to StarOS because I saw much better performance and maintainability for the wireless networks that I design and operate. Actual StarOS documentation is kind of sparse, but it uses a lot of standard Linux packages (OSLR, OSPF, quagga, cbq, iptables) that are well documented. Unfortunately, StarOS has not done a very good job of getting people trained or setting up good relationships with vendors, so you don't hear about it as much any more. For what I do, it is better than Mikrotik and I'm very happy with it. Matt Larsen mlar...@inventivemedia.net os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks! I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version on an old PC first. Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the something very small and simple. Thanks for the push! Greg On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote: The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup. If you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic, maybe. lol. There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you can use Winbox for all configuration changes. The web interface is not the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on- line that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to implement it. its not paste it in and magic happens. As far as making the leap, man I don't think so. Eje I am sure would agree there? * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Mr. Burgess, What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point. Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that bad? Greg On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote: Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution. Been there done that and it works :) * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*:
Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless
Interference? Greg On Mar 4, 2009, at 1:05 PM, Mark Nash wrote: One AP with one radio. We've gone through the moisture issue. Originally, Ubiquiti thought that the radios were taking in too much static and we needed to DC-ground each piece of equipment. We did that, bought new radios, but still couldn't get back to our original signal levels. How about antennas? Anyone have suggestions on base station antennas? I believe the pac antenna is a 120* VPol sector antenna. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless One AP with one radio or multiple radios in the same AP? First thought is a wet connector to tha antenna __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless We've seen a drop in signal on all of our connections off of one AP. In the beginning, connections were at -70(ish) for all CPEs. Now they're at -85(ish) and not really usable. We've replaced several boards radio cards ($250 a pop for one of these radios), both at the AP and at the client (both AP clients are Valemount WAR4's). Using Pac Wireless 3.5 grids on clients Pac Wireless 3.5 VPol sector at the AP. Upon advice from Ubiquiti, we've grounded every point that could be grounded (including antenna and card). We've sent 5 of the radios back to Ubiquiti for testing to see if there's a problem with them. I'm wondering if any of you have seen the same things??? Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Best Practice: Sealing Coax Connectors WAS: HyperlinkCoax Jumpers
A good final coating over the tape (be it pure rubber or vinyl) is 3M's Scotchkote http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MElectrical/Home/ProductsServices/Products/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECIE20OES1_nid=6Q3BGBPJ7CbeFR7R0D83TCgl We used that on seagoing ships for outdoor connections that see salt water, rain, high winds, freezing rain, etc. Greg On Mar 5, 2009, at 2:27 PM, RickG wrote: I use two layers of tape with the coaxseal in between. This protects the connectors and allows clean removal of the coaxseal. In addition, the tape seems to hold up better to the weather than the coaxseal. To be honest, I'd rather get rid of weather proofing altogether and just POE everywhere. Unfortunately, I have found any good sector antennas with radios build in. Then again, it is lame to replace an antenna due to a bad radio. The Ubiquiti Bullets have potential for this use but I suspect you still need to weather proof the connector. Also, whiel they have a lot of capabilities, I havent found a way to shape individual users bandwidth if they are used as an AP. I guess migrate bandwidth shaping to the user side? -RickG On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: Is the electrical tape just to hold the coax-seal in place? Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Practice: Sealing Coax Connectors WAS: HyperlinkCoax Jumpers Coaxseal and good electrical tape. LOL, I had one tower where the pigeons would peck at the connectors, so I added metal foil tape over the connection. That took care of that! -RickG On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: The only thing we use to seal these connectors is fusion tape from GB. I can get it from the local hardware store. I suspect that this is a problem. How is everyone sealing connectors on towers? This one particular site is at 3100ft so it gets wind and cold. Snow ice on it for a few 2- week periods per year. Lots of rain during the winter. It's been the worst for coax failures. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hyperlink Coax Jumpers I have used custom made ones from Tessco as well as the pre mades ones from Wisp Router and other places. The last few years I have not had any problems though it may have been due to the fact we put so much coax seal around them. Do you seal it with coax seal (or comparable material)? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: We have had about 6 of these fail in the last few months, whereas prior to that we don't recall a problem. They are 2-ft NM-NM LMR195 jumpers from Hyperlink. Anyone else have a problem? Any recommendations on best source for them? We normally only use them on backhauls APs, so when they go bad it's a big frustrating problem. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NS3/MikroTik
What about the PicoStation? On Mar 11, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote: last time I heard, false.. not enough ram. * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Cameron Kilton wrote: Has anybody heard as to when they are shipping? Also, I thought I noticed something go through the lists that is WAS possible to put MikroTik on the Nanostation gear, true/false? Cameron Midcoast Internet WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed - change of topic -- customers / AP
With VoIP is it really a bandwidth issue or is it a latency issue? My experience is mostly with Skype and not SIP/H323 but what I've seen is that the bandwidth consumed isn't very high but the latency makes it or breaks it. Greg On Apr 11, 2009, at 1:54 AM, Scott Carullo wrote: Or AP/subscriber ratio is super low where we dont usually have more than a dozen or so but this is necessary for selling optimal speed and providing quality voip services. 5MB speeds to our customers doesn't impress them, 10-20 does. Its a tough market here with lots of competition. VoIP gets a bit hairy over about 12 customers on an ap pulling that kind of bw. We have lots of APs / Towers :) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 12:11 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed - change of topic -- customers / AP WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Time Warner Tests $150-Per-Month Unlimited Internet
Are you using the optional QoS module that does layer 7 traffic shaping? I was using that at home but found the QoS in the Tomato firmware for Broadcom based APs to be more accurate. I haven't found any of the free open source Linux based firewalls to be very good at traffic shaping. I wish Packeteer had a software based solution (preferrably free). On Apr 12, 2009, at 1:45 PM, Rogelio wrote: On a somewhat related note, does anyone here use open source packet shaping solutions? I've only used Packeteer in production (enterprise environment), but I'm always on the lookout for good other solutions. Right now, I'm using BSD-based pfSense at home, and that seems to be working great. Others I know are just using OpenBSD proper and just putting it in transparent mode. I'd love to know what others find most appropriate for their environments, particularly in WISP sort of environments. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
