Re: [zones-discuss] Strange error with ZFS Live Upgrade and Zones
LiveUpgrade in s10u8 is broken imho. My s10 with a couple of sparse zones cannot be upgraded too with exactly the same errors. Mind you: my zones ARE part of the BE-path! so, that makes no difference. I then used the LU packages from s10u7 to lucreate and luupgrade to s10u8 which worked very well. The luactivate did not however. :-( Maybe I should have installed the newer LU packages and used the latest luactivate. I may test this. Still, I very disappointed that this upgrade with zones is so difficult, while it should be very easy on ZFS. Hope it will be resolved. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Strange error with ZFS Live Upgrade and Zones
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 12:29:55 +0200 casper@sun.com wrote: > >LiveUpgrade in s10u8 is broken imho. My s10 with a couple of sparse > >zones cannot be upgraded too w ith exactly the same errors. Mind you: > >my zones ARE part of the BE-path! so, that makes no differen ce. I > >then used the LU packages from s10u7 to lucreate and luupgrade to > >s10u8 which worked very wel l. The luactivate did not > >however. :-( Maybe I should have installed the newer LU packages and > >used the latest luactivate. I may test this. Still, I very > >disappointed that this upgrade with zones is so difficult, while it > >should be very easy on ZFS. Hope it will be resolved. > > We certainly tested this and we're certain it worked; not using s10u8 > upgrade tools may cause certain issues. I think you misunderstood me. I'm sure you tested it, but it does NOT work. The LU packages from s10u8 fail in every aspect. Lucreate can't even create a new BE so what luupgrade does cannot be tested. Nor can I test what luactivate (from u8) does. Other persons report errors on this program too. Only after finding out the U8 packages don't work, I reinstalled the LU packages from S10u7 and created and upgraded a new BE with them. That finished without any errors! Everything went the way it should. (at least that can be read in the /var/sadm/system/... files) It was only after I also used luactivate (from s10u7) that things got screwed up and left me with an unbootable system. Turned out luactivate had ruined the bootbloks, so an installgrub solved this. But since I got some attention (for which I am very grateful!) I will start over and try to catch the errors on screen. It may help. > How did the upgrade fail? As said, the upgrade went very well on an ABE created with lucreate/luupgrade from s10u7. Lucreate from s10u8 fails. I'll send the screens later on. > How did luactivate fail? Did the command fail or did rebooting (init > 6) failed? As I said, I can understand that luactivate from an older version might things bad. It did in my case. Luactivate from the new version is to be tested on an updated ABE yet. I'll come back on it. -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D + http://nagual.nl/ | SunOS 10u8 10/09 | OpenSolaris 2010.02 b123 + All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol) ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Strange error with ZFS Live Upgrade and Zones
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 14:22:23 +0200 dick hoogendijk wrote: > I'll come back on it. Here it is. It's a long message, but worth analyzing I hope. arwen# zfs list NAME MOUNTPOINT rpool /rpool rpool/ROOTlegacy rpool/ROOT/daffy / rpool/ROOT/da...@goofy- rpool/ROOT/daffy/zones/zones rpool/ROOT/daffy/zo...@daffy - rpool/ROOT/daffy/zo...@goofy - rpool/ROOT/daffy/zones/midgard-daffy /zones/midgard-daffy rpool/ROOT/daffy/zones/shire-daffy/zones/shire-daffy rpool/ROOT/daffy/zones/yanta-daffy/zones/yanta-daffy rpool/ROOT/goofy / rpool/ROOT/goofy/zones/zones rpool/ROOT/goofy/zones/midgard/zones/midgard rpool/ROOT/goofy/zones/midg...@goofy - rpool/ROOT/goofy/zones/shire /zones/shire rpool/ROOT/goofy/zones/sh...@goofy- rpool/ROOT/goofy/zones/yanta /zones/yanta rpool/ROOT/goofy/zones/ya...@goofy- rpool/dump- rpool/export /export rpool/export/home /export/home rpool/swap- arwen# lofiadm -a /export/iso/s10u8.iso /dev/lofi/1 arwen# mount -F hsfs -o ro /dev/lofi/1 /iso arwen# cd /iso/Solaris_10/Tools/Installers arwen# ./liveupgrade20 arwen# umount /iso arwen# lofiadm -d /dev/lofi/1 ===---===LU packages from S10u8=== arwen# lustatus Boot Environment Is Active ActiveCanCopy Name Complete NowOn Reboot Delete Status -- -- - -- -- daffy yes no noyes- goofy yes yesyes no - arwen# lucreate -n s10u8 Checking GRUB menu... System has findroot enabled GRUB Analyzing system configuration. Comparing source boot environment file systems with the file system(s) you specified for the new boot environment. Determining which file systems should be in the new boot environment. Updating boot environment description database on all BEs. Updating system configuration files. Creating configuration for boot environment . Source boot environment is . Creating boot environment . Cloning file systems from boot environment to create boot environment . Creating snapshot for on . Creating clone for on . Setting canmount=noauto for in zone on . Creating snapshot for on . Creating clone for on . Setting canmount=noauto for in zone on . Creating snapshot for on . Creating clone for on . cannot mount 'rpool/ROOT/s10u8/zones/shire-s10u8': legacy mountpoint use mount(1M) to mount this filesystem ERROR: Failed to mount dataset legacy is not an absolute path. Creating snapshot for on . Creating clone for on . cannot mount 'rpool/ROOT/s10u8/zones/midgard-s10u8': legacy mountpoint use mount(1M) to mount this filesystem ERROR: Failed to mount dataset legacy is not an absolute path. Creating snapshot for on . Creating clone for on . cannot mount 'rpool/ROOT/s10u8/zones/yanta-s10u8': legacy mountpoint use mount(1M) to mount this filesystem ERROR: Failed to mount dataset legacy is not an absolute path. WARNING: split filesystem file system type cannot inherit mount point options <-> from parent filesystem file type <-> because the two file systems have different types. Saving existing file in top level dataset for BE as //boot/grub/menu.lst.prev. Saving existing file in top level dataset for BE as //boot/grub/menu.lst.prev. File propagation successful Copied GRUB menu from PBE to ABE No entry for BE in GRUB menu Population of boot environment successful. Creation of boot environment successful. As you can see there are some errors, BUT the BE creation is succesful. This does not feel right, but OK. I will go ahead since a zfs list seems to be OK too. arwen# zfs list NAME USED AVAIL REFER MOUNTPOINT rpool /rpool rpool/ROOTlegacy rpool/ROOT/daffy / rpool/ROOT/da...@goofy- rpool/ROOT/daffy/zones/zones rpool/ROOT/daffy/zo...@daffy - rpool/ROOT/daffy/zo...@goofy - rpool/ROOT/daffy/zones/midgard-daffy /zones/midgard-daffy rpool/ROOT/daffy/zones/shire-daffy/zones/shire-daffy rpool/ROOT/daffy/zones/yanta-daffy/zones/yanta-daffy rpool/ROOT/goofy / rpool/ROOT/go...@s10u8- rpool/ROOT/goofy/zones/zones rpool/ROOT/goofy/zo...@s10u8 - rpool/ROOT/goofy/zones/midgard/zones/midgard rpool/ROOT/goofy/zones/midg...@goofy - rpool/ROOT/goofy/zones/midg...@s10u8 - rpool/ROOT/goofy/zones/shire /zones/shire rpool/ROOT/goofy/zones/sh...@goofy- rpool/ROOT/goofy/zones/sh...@s10u8- rpool/
Re: [zones-discuss] Strange error with ZFS Live Upgrade and Zones
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 12:29:55 +0200 And this is bad too: arwen# luumount s10u8 ERROR: umount: /a/var/run busy ERROR: cannot unmount ERROR: failed to unmount ERROR: cannot unmount '/a': Device busy ERROR: cannot unmount ERROR: failed to unmount ERROR: cannot unmount boot environment - all <2> file systems remain mounted So, a system reboot is needed to get rid of this mess. -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D + http://nagual.nl/ | SunOS 10u8 10/09 | OpenSolaris 2010.02 b123 + All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol) ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Strange error with ZFS Live Upgrade and Zones
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 15:54:00 +0200 Thomas Törnblom wrote: > > So, a system reboot is needed to get rid of this mess. > > Have you tried "luumount -f"? Yes, and this time it worked. So this message should not have been written. It's not the main message though. ;-) I hope they fix the broken lu package from s10u8 or at least know a workaround that works. I don't want to mess with my main server too much. I could not even ludelete the newly created ABE (and the ludelete from u7 also did not do the job). So, again, manual labour and some zfs destroy commands. Plus of course, get rid of the old (lu) data in /etc/lutab and /etc/lu. But the ABE has "disappeared" ;-) I will start testing again if some good advice is available. -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D + http://nagual.nl/ | SunOS 10u8 10/09 | OpenSolaris 2010.02 b123 + All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol) ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Strange error with ZFS Live Upgrade and Zones
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:33:12 +0200 casper@sun.com wrote: > Hm, I've seen those issues before; I'm not sure what keeps /var/run > unmountable. I'm not even sure why the current liveupgrade also > mounts the "tmpfs" directories and the non-essential zfs filesystems. I just read in another thread about LU and the NVidea driver the following information: > John Martin wrote: > Following the instructions in the Solaris 10 10/09 Installation Guide: > http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/821-0438?l=en > > I installed LU patch 121431-43 (S10U7 has 121431-27) and installed > the LU software using the S10U8 installer. This might explain the errors I've written about. I checked my LU patch version and it's on 121431-37 (!) I'm NOT allowed to download the latest (adviced) patch: Patch IR CR RSB Age Synopsis 121431 37 < 43---38 SunOS 5.8_x86 5.9_x86 5.10_x86: Live Upgrade Patch Looking for 121431-43 (1/1) Trying https://sunsolve.sun.com/ (1/1) Failed Failed (patch not found) -- Download Summary: 1 total, 0 successful, 0 skipped, 1 failed This should not be happening if this patch is NEEDED for upgrading. But again, it may not really be needed and than it's normal that it's not avail. I can not be sure. I'm no insider. -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D + http://nagual.nl/ | SunOS 10u8 10/09 | OpenSolaris 2010.02 b123 + All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol) ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
[zones-discuss] 121431-43 Live Upgrade Patch
This needed and adviced (by sun) Live Upgrade Patch can be found on http://sunsolve.sun.com/show.do?target=patches/zos-x10 As all can see the patch is listed there as "public" so, it should be downloadable for guys without contracts. However, it's NOT. Click on it and you get to the page where you're reminded to renew your contract. Something's wrong. Hope it get available soon and solves my upgrade problems. -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D + http://nagual.nl/ | SunOS 10u8 10/09 | OpenSolaris 2010.02 b123 + All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol) ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
[zones-discuss] ZFS Live Upgrade and Zones dilemma
I'm in a very heavy dilemma! As you can read in the report below I now have a new BE that has been upgraded to s10u8 without a single error! It is mountable and the files in /var/sadm/system/.. give no warnings! BUT ... it has been created and updated with the update 7 LU packages! In other threads I have shown that the upgrade 8 LU packages are not capable to do the job, nor is patch 121431-43 for s10, because it contains the same LU packages as update 8. I would like advice on how to ACTIVATE the new BE. Two days ago I tried luactivate from update 7. That did not work. It even ruined my bootblocks. ;-) That may have been caused by different LU packages on the source and the newBE (?). Not sure, just a wild guess. So, I was thinking of: [a] install LU from update 8 now and luactivate the new BE (might this work?) or [b] install the old LU from update 7 on the new ABE (s10u8) so the LU packages are in sync. Which would be the choice with the highest chances of working? I'm SO close now to a new updated BE? Only activation... ###upgrade report # arwen# lucreate -n s10u8 Checking GRUB menu... System has findroot enabled GRUB Analyzing system configuration. Comparing source boot environment file systems with the file system(s) you specified for the new boot environment. Determining which file systems should be in the new boot environment. Updating boot environment description database on all BEs. Updating system configuration files. Creating configuration for boot environment . Source boot environment is . Creating boot environment . Cloning file systems from boot environment to create boot environment . Creating snapshot for on . Creating clone for on . Setting canmount=noauto for in zone on . Creating snapshot for on . Creating clone for on . Setting canmount=noauto for in zone on . Creating snapshot for on . Creating clone for on . Creating snapshot for on . Creating clone for on . Creating snapshot for on . Creating clone for on . Saving existing file in top level dataset for BE as //boot/grub/menu.lst.prev. Saving existing file in top level dataset for BE as //boot/grub/menu.lst.prev. File propagation successful Copied GRUB menu from PBE to ABE No entry for BE in GRUB menu Population of boot environment successful. Creation of boot environment successful. ### arwen# lofiadm -a /export/iso/s10u8.iso /dev/lofi/1 arwen# mount -F hsfs -o ro /dev/lofi/1 /iso arwen# luupgrade -u -n s10u8 -s /iso System has findroot enabled GRUB No entry for BE in GRUB menu Copying failsafe kernel from media. Uncompressing miniroot Creating miniroot device miniroot filesystem is Mounting miniroot at Validating the contents of the media . The media is a standard Solaris media. The media contains an operating system upgrade image. The media contains version <10>. Constructing upgrade profile to use. Locating the operating system upgrade program. Checking for existence of previously scheduled Live Upgrade requests. Creating upgrade profile for BE . Checking for GRUB menu on ABE . Saving GRUB menu on ABE . Checking for x86 boot partition on ABE. Determining packages to install or upgrade for BE . Performing the operating system upgrade of the BE . CAUTION: Interrupting this process may leave the boot environment unstable or unbootable. Upgrading Solaris: 100% completed Installation of the packages from this media is complete. Restoring GRUB menu on ABE . Updating package information on boot environment . Package information successfully updated on boot environment . Adding operating system patches to the BE . The operating system patch installation is complete. ABE boot partition backing deleted. PBE GRUB has no capability information. PBE GRUB has no versioning information. ABE GRUB is newer than PBE GRUB. Updating GRUB. GRUB update was successfull. Configuring failsafe for system. Failsafe configuration is complete. INFORMATION: The file on boot environment contains a log of the upgrade operation. INFORMATION: The file on boot environment contains a log of cleanup operations required. INFORMATION: Review the files listed above. Remember that all of the files are located on boot environment . Before you activate boot environment , determine if any additional system maintenance is required or if additional media of the software distribution must be installed. The Solaris upgrade of the boot environment is complete. Installing failsafe Failsafe install is complete. ###END of report -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D + http://nagual.nl/ | SunOS 10u8 10/09 | OpenSolaris 2010.02 b123 + All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol) ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
[zones-discuss] ZFS with zones LU upgrade 8 successful
ZFS with zones LU upgrade 8 successful After much irritation I decided to lucreate a new BE one more time. I then 'zfs mounted' it and removed the unwanted lines in /etc/vfstab created by the LU upgrade 8 packages. I also changed the zonepath in the /etc/zones/*xml files to something new as well as in the /etc/zones/index file! All this in the NEW ABE! After these changes I ran luupgrade and this time I got no errors! None whatsoever. All went very smoothly. The luactivate did OK too. Before I rebooted into the new ABE I changed back the /etc/zones/*.xml and /etc/zones/index. Not because it is needed, but just because I like the old zonepath. ;-) After a reboot I'm now on an updated S10u8 environment and my zones are running perfectly. I can say this workaround, although not nice, works. I do hope however that the LiveUpgrade packages will be patched to work with ZFS zoneroots and zones in a normal way. -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D + http://nagual.nl/ | SunOS 10u8 10/09 | OpenSolaris 2010.02 b123 + All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol) ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
[zones-discuss] ZFS with zones LU upgrade 8 successful
ZFS with zones LU upgrade 8 successful After much irritation I decided to lucreate a new BE one more time. I then 'zfs mounted' it and removed the unwanted lines in /etc/vfstab created by the LU upgrade 8 packages. I also changed the zonepath in the /etc/zones/*xml files to something new as well as in the /etc/zones/index file! All this in the NEW ABE! After these changes I ran luupgrade and this time I got no errors! None whatsoever. All went very smoothly. The luactivate did OK too. Before I rebooted into the new ABE I changed back the /etc/zones/*.xml and /etc/zones/index. Not because it is needed, but just because I like the old zonepath. ;-) After a reboot I'm now on an updated S10u8 environment and my zones are running perfectly. I can say this workaround, although not nice, works. I do hope however that the LiveUpgrade packages will be patched to work with ZFS zoneroots and zones in a normal way. -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D + http://nagual.nl/ | SunOS 10u8 10/09 | OpenSolaris 2010.02 b123 + All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol) ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Downgrading zones on Opensolaris 2009.x ( b131)
Op 25-1-2010 12:30, Paul van der Zwan schr Unfortunately I am running into bug 6912829 ( causes panic on zoneadm halt ) quite often. Do or don't zones work correctly on OpenSolaris-b131? ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
[zones-discuss] zlogin -C zone
I get very very frustrated. I installed a zone on my opensolaris b131 and all went well. The zone boots OK. Then it's time for the "zlogin -C" but no matter what, I always seem to choose the wrong keyboard and so all I get pressing F2 is "OQ". This is on opensolaris-b131 What type of terminal do I choose. I work from within gnome, but if needed I'll shutdown gdm and work from the console. Can I reverse the wrong choice I made or do I have to uninstall the complete zone? I'd very much like to install some zones (shared IP, so there are no issues). Please help. ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] GDM connect to GDM in a zone ?
On 02/ 1/10 04:54 PM, Paul van der Zwan wrote: Is it possible to run GDM inside a zone on b131 ? I would like to have a zone I can use to run stuff like netbeans etc in, and I don’t want to use the global zone for that. As far as I can tell the gdm smf service depends on dbus and that is marked as global zone only. One more complication is that gdm is missing the old dtlogin option to select a remote host to connect to. Or is that option hidden/disabled by default ? I used this option quite heavenly on solaris 10. I ran a special user zone for logins. This option is not available in OpenSolaris (yet). It is a pity, because a GUI login to zones would be most welcome. Is it planned? ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
[zones-discuss] upgrading and zones
Going from OpenSolaris b131 to b132.. Am I correct in this procedure: [1] pkg image-update (with zones attached) [2] after reboot to the new BE detach the zones [3] zoneadm attach -u zones OR, do I have to detach -BEFORE- the pkg image -update? ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
[zones-discuss] move ZFS fs to a zone
# zfs list rpool/www 3.64G 377G 3.64G /var/www rpool/zones 3.00G 377G24K /zones rpool/zones/anduin1.94G 377G24K /zones/anduin rpool/zones/anduin/ROOT 1.94G 377G21K legacy rpool/zones/anduin/ROOT/zbe 1.94G 377G 1.91G legacy rpool/zones/midgard 1.06G 377G24K /zones/midgard rpool/zones/midgard/ROOT 1.06G 377G21K legacy rpool/zones/midgard/ROOT/zbe 1.06G 377G 1.06G legacy I want to move the rpool/www zfs filesystem to zone midgard. Is this possible and how is this done? I guess it will no longer be accessible from the GZ then. That would be good, because I want to seperate my webserver from my global zone. -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D + http://nagual.nl/ | OpenSolaris 2010.03 b131 + All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol) ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] upgrading and zones
Anon Y Mous wrote: > Also, another important caveat / missing piece that I noticed is missing > from all of the OpenSolaris Indiana Sun blogs and documentation I've > looked at so far: to do resource caps on CPU and RAM memory in OpenSolaris > I think you need to install the SUNWrcap package first like this: > > # pkg install SUNWrcap > > I couldn't get resource capped zones to install in a brand new Indiana > install when I first started using OpenSolaris back in May 2008 and it > took me a week to figure that one out. Thsnk you for this valuable piece of information. It gets stored in my archives. ;-) -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: F86289CE ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
[zones-discuss] zone update question
Updating a system w/ NG zones installed was difficult in recent releases. What is the status of this behaviour now that OS2010.3 is about to be released? Will my b131 server with a couple of NG zones be able to update through the normal zoneadm detach / attach -u procedure or is this 'update zone bug' not delt with yet? -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D + http://nagual.nl/ | OpenSolaris 2010.03 b134 + All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol) ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Nero Linux in zones
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 09:41:07 +0300 valrhona wrote: But, c'mon: CD burning? This problem was solved a decade ago. I like Nero, because I can aggregate various directories, click twice, and my DVD comes out verified five minutes later. The idea that i have to track down packages, or deal with Brasero (which I'm sure can be configured; I just don't want to spend the time for something that I already know how to do otherwise), just raises the barrier unnecessarily for people who want to try out OpenSolaris, get it working, and then explore its compelling new features. The fact that -you- like Nero so much that you won't use another piece of software to do what you want to do does not meen CD-Burning is difficult on OpenSolaris. It simply means nero is not supported on OpenSolaris, like InDesign is not, nor Photoshop and many many other software packages. No big deal. Virtualize windows and you're set. Complain to the Nero software engineers and make them support solaris. (not much change though..) Or accept the fact that not all software is supported on your platform of choice. People are rightfully worried about the future of OpenSolaris, but by having some basic things be so difficult and time-consuming, just to get the basics of usability running, only exacerbate the problem by limiting adoption. Totally besides the point and absolute nonsence. You mean -YOU- worry just because one of you favo progs is not supported. I can give you lots of examples of progs not supported on linux, or FreeBSD or OS-X or.. Do we all worry about the future of these OS's? -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D + http://nagual.nl/ | OpenSolaris 2010.03 b134 + All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol) ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Nero Linux in zones
On 11-4-2010 21:08, Joerg Schilling wrote: Well did you ever try to use cdrecord? cdrecord is easier to use than "cdrw" and other fimilar tools It is impossible to further reduce complexity as it is sufficient to call "cdrecord xxx.iso". Mkisofs gives an overview of the most important options if you just call "mkisofs". I'm a very happy user of your software, Joerg. But it is a fact that -SOME- people just want to -CLICK- and not give a command (however simple it is). I.m.h.o. UNIX is not for these people. -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D + http://nagual.nl/ | OpenSolaris 2010.03 b134 + All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol) ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org