date:20180215

Thanks, and yes, it would be grey market since I'm not willing to pay
nearly double for the supported version.  Point taken on the Ubiquiti
support though, I just figured crap support is better than no support.

Going back to the distributed tap design, how does an OTDR behave with this
kind of setup?  Do you need some special software or do you just have to
read it differently?

Where are you sourcing your FBT splitters?


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:

> Without support, yes if you are buying it grey market. But have you ever
> dealt with ubnt support? Last time I tried they were about useless.
>
> Smartolt.com provides a subscription based web gui for the zte OLT. It's a
> nice system, if you are okay trusting that functionality to some guy in
> Romania. The CLI is pretty clunky but you can do it that way too.
>
>
>
> On Feb 15, 2018 10:07 PM, "Jason McKemie"  com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the information.  Others were saying the ZTE units are
>> basically without any support, so I thought that might be a potential
>> benefit to the Ubiquiti gear.  What do you use to manage the ZTE gear?  Is
>> it just CLI?
>>
>> -Jason
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE
>>> powered ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5
>>> runs, and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH,
>>> with a media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying
>>> the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to
>>> -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it
>>> would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not
>>> confidence building.
>>>
>>> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less
>>> than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully
>>> load the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in
>>> the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled
>>> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a
>>> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was
>>> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
 What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?

 On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien 
 wrote:

> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
> that needs to be set.
>
> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 
> rx
> sens.
>
> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>
> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
>> That's also a compelling point.
>>
>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>
>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>
>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably
>> have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that 
>> in
>> mind too.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in
>> cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and
>> outdoor cabinets.
>>
>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per
>> customer.
>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing
>> myself to do PON.
>>
>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Best regards,Mark*
>> mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>>
>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>>
>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>>
>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>> *Sent:* Monday,

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Adam Moffett


I'm definitely going to look hard at the distributed tap design.

Another thing that turned me off from PON was Alphion telling me that 
interop between different PON vendors was not guaranteed.  
Realistically, how much trouble have you had cross vendor?  If I use ZTE 
today and decide UBNT is better later, does that mean a forklift?




-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/15/2018 4:33:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We just ring cut the cable at the handholes.  Later when a drop comes 
in to that handhole we just open the case and splice the drop to a 
strand.  But this is a home run strand back to the cross box where the 
splitters are located.


While I like 12 count prices, the cost of construction is such that 
strand count is one of the more minor expenses.  At least of you are 
having to drill and if  you use duct.


If you can plow everything direct burial, that is a different bucket of 
cats.


From:Chris Fabien
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:41 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Mark, In our area, limited new house construction. So, we design our 
plant to serve existing houses. You of course have the option of 
putting in all the taps you might need now, rather than cutting them in 
later. We usually end up with at least one drop coming back to maybe 
80% of the handholes. I have not yet, one year in using this method, 
had to cut service to install a new tap. If you are good at splicing it 
"should" be only a couple minutes of downtime. I'm never claiming it's 
the right choice for everyone, or right choice for everywhere in your 
network. I just know it lets me go many miles and a 200-300 homes 
served on a 12 count mainline that costs me <20 cents a foot. I think 
that's pretty awesome, and it's almost never even discussed as an 
option by most FTTH people.


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies 
 wrote:

Chris,

It all depends on scale.  Not saying taps won't work, just saying I 
could never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 
customers.  Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone 
south of the new tap offline.  In the scheme I just posted, everything 
flows south.  Taps would be great in a static environment where you 
can install them once and not worry about new customers.  The area I 
designed for was only 30% built out.  Also, this is the exception to 
the rule.  I would NEVER advise people to build their whole network 
like this.


--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--


Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote:


Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use 
mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely 
to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so 
its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 
for  a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.


This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping 
architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc 
  I wish I had seen this 
video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested 
the idea by another fiber upstart guy.


Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 
12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. 
Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, 
especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north 
and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the 
tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly 
has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the 
loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can 
tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are 
built and what not.


Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty 
much the same.


Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:

What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a 
large expense.
I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my 
idea already exists I would rather just buy them.


From: Chris Fabien
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range 
parameter that needs to be set.


We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is 
about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and 
-28 rx sens.


I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Jon Langeler

The pricing for a ZTE OLT from Baltic is $4-5k. Is that about right?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Feb 15, 2018, at 11:03 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:
> 
> Without support, yes if you are buying it grey market. But have you ever 
> dealt with ubnt support? Last time I tried they were about useless. 
> 
> Smartolt.com provides a subscription based web gui for the zte OLT. It's a 
> nice system, if you are okay trusting that functionality to some guy in 
> Romania. The CLI is pretty clunky but you can do it that way too. 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2018 10:07 PM, "Jason McKemie"  
>> wrote:
>> Thanks for the information.  Others were saying the ZTE units are basically 
>> without any support, so I thought that might be a potential benefit to the 
>> Ubiquiti gear.  What do you use to manage the ZTE gear?  Is it just CLI?
>> 
>> -Jason
>> 
>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:
>>> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE powered 
>>> ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5 runs, 
>>> and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH, with a 
>>> media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying the Nano 
>>> would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to -10C... this 
>>> told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it would work 
>>> using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not confidence 
>>> building. 
>>> 
>>> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less than 
>>> half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully load 
>>> the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in the 
>>> ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled 
>>> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a 
>>> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was 
>>> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform. 
>>> 
 On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie 
  wrote:
 What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?
 
> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien  wrote:
 
> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter 
> that needs to be set. 
> 
> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is 
> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 
> rx sens. 
> 
> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
> 
> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
> 
>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
> 
>> That's also a compelling point.
>> 
>> It's not a simple question for sure.  
>> 
>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company 
>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what 
>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 
>> 
>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a 
>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind 
>> too.
>> 
>> 
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>> 
>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and 
>>> outdoor cabinets. 
>>>  
>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. 
>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself 
>>> to  do PON. 
>>>  
>>> From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>>> To: Chuck McCown
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>  
>>> Chuck,
>>> 
>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>> 
>>> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
>>> www.MyakkaTech.com
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>>> 
>>> From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
>>> To: Adam Moffett
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>> 
>>> Adam,
>>> 
>>> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
>>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Without support, yes if you are buying it grey market. But have you ever
dealt with ubnt support? Last time I tried they were about useless.

Smartolt.com provides a subscription based web gui for the zte OLT. It's a
nice system, if you are okay trusting that functionality to some guy in
Romania. The CLI is pretty clunky but you can do it that way too.



On Feb 15, 2018 10:07 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
wrote:

> Thanks for the information.  Others were saying the ZTE units are
> basically without any support, so I thought that might be a potential
> benefit to the Ubiquiti gear.  What do you use to manage the ZTE gear?  Is
> it just CLI?
>
> -Jason
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
>> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE
>> powered ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5
>> runs, and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH,
>> with a media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying
>> the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to
>> -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it
>> would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not
>> confidence building.
>>
>> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less
>> than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully
>> load the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in
>> the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled
>> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a
>> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was
>> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
 difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
 that needs to be set.

 We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
 about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
 sens.

 I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

 We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

 On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> That's also a compelling point.
>
> It's not a simple question for sure.
>
> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>
> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have
> a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
> too.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
> cabinets.
>
> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per
> customer.
> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing
> myself to do PON.
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Chuck,
>
> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards,Mark*
> mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>
> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
> *To:* Adam Moffett
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Adam,
>
> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
> exceed 20Km."
>
> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long
> stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
>
> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into
> the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144
> count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Thanks for the information.  Others were saying the ZTE units are basically
without any support, so I thought that might be a potential benefit to the
Ubiquiti gear.  What do you use to manage the ZTE gear?  Is it just CLI?

-Jason

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:

> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE
> powered ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5
> runs, and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH,
> with a media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying
> the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to
> -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it
> would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not
> confidence building.
>
> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less
> than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully
> load the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in
> the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled
> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a
> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was
> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform.
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>>> that needs to be set.
>>>
>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
>>> sens.
>>>
>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>>
>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>>
>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>>>
 That's also a compelling point.

 It's not a simple question for sure.

 The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
 wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
 THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.

 Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have
 a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
 too.

 -- Original Message --
 From: "Chuck McCown" 
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

 When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
 electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
 cabinets.

 When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per
 customer.
 For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself
 to do PON.

 *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
 *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
 *To:* Chuck McCown
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

 Chuck,

 PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

 *-- Best regards,Mark*
 mailto:m...@mailmt.com

 *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com

 *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*

 Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

 *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
 *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
 *To:* Adam Moffett
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

 Adam,

 There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
 when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
 exceed 20Km."

 The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long
 stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

 We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into
 the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144
 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles
 depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter
 to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light
 budget.

 We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage
 per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.

 *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:
 m...@mailmt.com

 *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com

 *--Monday, February 12, 2018,

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: test from non sub

2018-02-15 Thread Sean Heskett

I received your test message chuck

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 2:09 PM  wrote:

> It appears it did not go through.
>
> *From:* ch...@directcom.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 2:04 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* test from non sub
>
> This is a test from a non subscribed email address.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE powered
ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5 runs,
and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH, with a
media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying the Nano
would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to -10C... this
told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it would work
using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not confidence
building.

So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less than
half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully load
the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in the
ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled
with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a
horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was
worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?
>
> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>> that needs to be set.
>>
>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
>> sens.
>>
>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>
>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>>
>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>
>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>
>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>
>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
>>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>>> too.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>>> cabinets.
>>>
>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself
>>> to do PON.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>>
>>>
>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>>>
>>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
>>> *To:* Adam Moffett
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Adam,
>>>
>>> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
>>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
>>> exceed 20Km."
>>>
>>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long
>>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
>>>
>>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into
>>> the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144
>>> count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles
>>> depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter
>>> to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light
>>> budget.
>>>
>>> We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage
>>> per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>>
>>>
>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:*
>>>
>>> Maybe I need to review the math.
>>>
>>> I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't
>>> compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber
>>> back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" 
>>> To: "Adam Moffett" 
>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
>>> Subject:

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 2000 AP real world Wattage.

2018-02-15 Thread Mathew Howard

Typically 8-10 watts, from what I've seen.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Sam Lambie  wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> Has anyone cared to note what the real wattage draw of the AP is under
> load? I have a solar site that is getting close to full power wise and am
> looking to put something in that is light on juice.
>
> thanks
> Sam
>
> --
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 <(575)%20758-7598> Office
> www.Taosnet.com 
>

[AFMUG] epmp 2000 AP real world Wattage.

2018-02-15 Thread Sam Lambie

Hey all,

Has anyone cared to note what the real wattage draw of the AP is under
load? I have a solar site that is getting close to full power wise and am
looking to put something in that is light on juice.

thanks
Sam

-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien  wrote:

> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
> that needs to be set.
>
> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
> sens.
>
> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>
> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
>> That's also a compelling point.
>>
>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>
>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>
>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>> too.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>> cabinets.
>>
>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself
>> to do PON.
>>
>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>>
>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>>
>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>>
>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
>> *To:* Adam Moffett
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Adam,
>>
>> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
>> exceed 20Km."
>>
>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long
>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
>>
>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the
>> last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count
>> cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on
>> density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons
>> 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.
>>
>> We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage
>> per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>>
>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:*
>>
>> Maybe I need to review the math.
>>
>> I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't
>> compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber
>> back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" 
>> To: "Adam Moffett" 
>> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>>
>> Adam,
>>
>> How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.
>> Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>>
>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *--Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:*
>>
>> I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking
>> at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line
>> down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then
>> I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses
>> per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.
>>
>> Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't
>> seeming to work out for me.
>>
>> I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to
>> PON some day if I want to.
>>
>> We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15
>> years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE
>> I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do that
>> as far as I can imagine, but my

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Chuck McCown

We just ring cut the cable at the handholes.  Later when a drop comes in to 
that handhole we just open the case and splice the drop to a strand.  But this 
is a home run strand back to the cross box where the splitters are located.  

While I like 12 count prices, the cost of construction is such that strand 
count is one of the more minor expenses.  At least of you are having to drill 
and if  you use duct.

If you can plow everything direct burial, that is a different bucket of cats.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:41 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Mark, In our area, limited new house construction. So, we design our plant to 
serve existing houses. You of course have the option of putting in all the taps 
you might need now, rather than cutting them in later. We usually end up with 
at least one drop coming back to maybe 80% of the handholes. I have not yet, 
one year in using this method, had to cut service to install a new tap. If you 
are good at splicing it "should" be only a couple minutes of downtime. I'm 
never claiming it's the right choice for everyone, or right choice for 
everywhere in your network. I just know it lets me go many miles and a 200-300 
homes served on a 12 count mainline that costs me <20 cents a foot. I think 
that's pretty awesome, and it's almost never even discussed as an option by 
most FTTH people. 

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies  
wrote:

  Chris,

  It all depends on scale.  Not saying taps won't work, just saying I could 
never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 customers.  
Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone south of the new tap 
offline.  In the scheme I just posted, everything flows south.  Taps would be 
great in a static environment where you can install them once and not worry 
about new customers.  The area I designed for was only 30% built out.  Also, 
this is the exception to the rule.  I would NEVER advise people to build their 
whole network like this.  

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  -- 


  Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote:



   Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use 
mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see 
heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect 
(but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, 
worth having to replace one or two a year.  

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping 
architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I 
had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were 
suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. 

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 
12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly 
a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some 
handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go 
south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us 
in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have 
to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you 
can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and 
what not. 

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty 
much the same. 

Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:

 What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes 
are a large expense.
  I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to 
my idea already exists I would rather just buy them.  

  From: Chris Fabien
  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that 
needs to be set.  

  We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The 
OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 
rx sens. 

  I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

  We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

  On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  
wrote:

   That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a 
larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think 
about what

[AFMUG] Fw: test from non sub

It appears it did not go through.  

From: ch...@directcom.com 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 2:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: test from non sub

This is a test from a non subscribed email address.

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

12” Depth: 
15” Depth: 
18” Depth: 

So you get the middle size for $82.  
Seems a bit tight to me, if you have a 144 strand splice in a 21 inch splice 
case and 50 feet of slack.  
I wonder what the 18” will cost.  I may try this and the round one.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 1:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We get 17x30x15. Tyco B size will fit but it's tight. A is no prob.

On Feb 15, 2018 2:33 PM,  wrote:

  A splice case and slack will fit OK?
  Which size do you get for the $82?

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf 

  Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local 
supplier that stocks them. 

  On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

Could you give me a source for your handholes?
I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel lids. 
 But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly 
HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy 
traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but 
the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, worth 
having to replace one or two a year.   

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture 
very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen this 
video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea 
by another fiber upstart guy. 

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count 
main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable 
approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes 
you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and 
what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our 
area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have 
the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can 
tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and 
what not. 

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much 
the same. 

Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:

  What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a 
large expense.
  I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea 
already exists I would rather just buy them.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that 
needs to be set.  

  We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is 
about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx 
sens. 

  I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

  We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

  On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company 
wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY 
will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have 
a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in 
cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

  When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per 
customer.  
  For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing 
myself to do PON.  

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.

Re: [AFMUG] AF5 powered with mimosa POE

AF5 I meant

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 12:37 PM, Mathew Howard 
wrote:

> AF5x is... I assume an AF5 would be too, but I haven't ever tried it. My
> experience has been that pretty much anything that does PoE on a gigabit
> port is polarity agnostic.
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 2:25 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know if the AF6 is polarity agnostic?
>>
>> It calls for 1245+ 3678- but I have a mimosa POE only and it's a
>> different pinout
>>
>> I think it's 1236 +4578-
>>
>> Has anyone tested? Smoke?
>>
>> TJ
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We get 17x30x15. Tyco B size will fit but it's tight. A is no prob.

On Feb 15, 2018 2:33 PM,  wrote:

> A splice case and slack will fit OK?
> Which size do you get for the $82?
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/
> 05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf
>
> Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local
> supplier that stocks them.
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Could you give me a source for your handholes?
>> I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel
>> lids.  But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.
>>
>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly
>> HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see
>> heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not
>> perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer
>> concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.
>>
>> This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping
>> architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I
>> wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when
>> we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy.
>>
>> Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count
>> main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a
>> viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some
>> handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing
>> to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very
>> well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with
>> it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave
>> some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or
>> there as houses are built and what not.
>>
>> Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much
>> the same.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a
>>> large expense.
>>> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my
>>> idea already exists I would rather just buy them.
>>>
>>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>>> that needs to be set.
>>>
>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
>>> sens.
>>>
>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>>
>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>>
>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>>>
 That's also a compelling point.

 It's not a simple question for sure.

 The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
 wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
 THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.

 Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have
 a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
 too.


 -- Original Message --
 From: "Chuck McCown" 
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


 When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
 electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
 cabinets.

 When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per
 customer.
 For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself
 to do PON.

 *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
 *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
 *To:* Chuck McCown
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

 Chuck,

 PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.



 *-- Best regards,Mark*
 mailto:m...@mailmt.com


 *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com





 *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*

 Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

 *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
 *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
 *To:* Adam Moffett

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Re: [AFMUG] AF5 powered with mimosa POE

2018-02-15 Thread Mathew Howard

AF5x is... I assume an AF5 would be too, but I haven't ever tried it. My
experience has been that pretty much anything that does PoE on a gigabit
port is polarity agnostic.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 2:25 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

> Does anyone know if the AF6 is polarity agnostic?
>
> It calls for 1245+ 3678- but I have a mimosa POE only and it's a different
> pinout
>
> I think it's 1236 +4578-
>
> Has anyone tested? Smoke?
>
> TJ
>

[AFMUG] AF5 powered with mimosa POE

Does anyone know if the AF6 is polarity agnostic?

It calls for 1245+ 3678- but I have a mimosa POE only and it's a different
pinout

I think it's 1236 +4578-

Has anyone tested? Smoke?

TJ

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Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Nice thing about HDPE is that you can brand your name into the lids with an 
electric branding iron.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

I've been using these: 

https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_2200.pdf

About $70 with extension.  I prefer the round handholes - probably a bit 
stronger from a crushing standpoint as well, since the lid is much smaller.

-Jason

 Virus-free. www.avast.com  

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:33 PM,  wrote:

  A splice case and slack will fit OK?
  Which size do you get for the $82?

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf 

  Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local 
supplier that stocks them. 

  On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

Could you give me a source for your handholes?
I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel lids. 
 But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly 
HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy 
traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but 
the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, worth 
having to replace one or two a year.   

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture 
very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen this 
video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea 
by another fiber upstart guy. 

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count 
main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable 
approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes 
you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and 
what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our 
area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have 
the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can 
tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and 
what not. 

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much 
the same. 

Chris

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:

  What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a 
large expense.
  I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea 
already exists I would rather just buy them.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that 
needs to be set.  

  We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is 
about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx 
sens. 

  I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

  We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

  On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company 
wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY 
will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have 
a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in 
cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

  When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per 
customer.  
  For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing 
myself to do PON.  

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Mark

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

So, with extension they are 24” deep?
If you put a coil at the bottom and lean the splice case in at a slant it ought 
to work just fine.  
What size of splice cases have you put in these?

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

I've been using these: 

https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_2200.pdf

About $70 with extension.  I prefer the round handholes - probably a bit 
stronger from a crushing standpoint as well, since the lid is much smaller.

-Jason

 Virus-free. www.avast.com  

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:33 PM,  wrote:

  A splice case and slack will fit OK?
  Which size do you get for the $82?

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf 

  Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local 
supplier that stocks them. 

  On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

Could you give me a source for your handholes?
I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel lids. 
 But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly 
HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy 
traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but 
the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, worth 
having to replace one or two a year.   

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture 
very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen this 
video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea 
by another fiber upstart guy. 

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count 
main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable 
approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes 
you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and 
what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our 
area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have 
the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can 
tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and 
what not. 

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much 
the same. 

Chris

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:

  What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a 
large expense.
  I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea 
already exists I would rather just buy them.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that 
needs to be set.  

  We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is 
about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx 
sens. 

  I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

  We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

  On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company 
wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY 
will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have 
a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in 
cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

  When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per 
customer.  
  For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing 
myself to do PON.  

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  PLC splitter in spice

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

I've been using these:

https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_2200.pdf

About $70 with extension.  I prefer the round handholes - probably a bit
stronger from a crushing standpoint as well, since the lid is much smaller.

-Jason


Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:33 PM,  wrote:

> A splice case and slack will fit OK?
> Which size do you get for the $82?
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/
> 05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf
>
> Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local
> supplier that stocks them.
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Could you give me a source for your handholes?
>> I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel
>> lids.  But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.
>>
>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly
>> HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see
>> heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not
>> perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer
>> concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.
>>
>> This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping
>> architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I
>> wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when
>> we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy.
>>
>> Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count
>> main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a
>> viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some
>> handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing
>> to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very
>> well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with
>> it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave
>> some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or
>> there as houses are built and what not.
>>
>> Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much
>> the same.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a
>>> large expense.
>>> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my
>>> idea already exists I would rather just buy them.
>>>
>>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>>> that needs to be set.
>>>
>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
>>> sens.
>>>
>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>>
>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>>
>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>>>
 That's also a compelling point.

 It's not a simple question for sure.

 The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
 wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
 THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.

 Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have
 a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
 too.


 -- Original Message --
 From: "Chuck McCown" 
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


 When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
 electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
 cabinets.

 When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per
 customer.
 For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself
 to do PON.

 *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
 *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
 *To:* Chuck McCown
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

 Chuck,

 PLC splitter in

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

A splice case and slack will fit OK?
Which size do you get for the $82?

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf 

Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local supplier 
that stocks them. 

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

  Could you give me a source for your handholes?
  I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel lids.  
But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly 
HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy 
traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but 
the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, worth 
having to replace one or two a year.   

  This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture 
very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen this 
video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea 
by another fiber upstart guy. 

  Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main 
and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable 
approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes 
you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and 
what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our 
area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have 
the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can 
tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and 
what not. 

  Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the 
same. 

  Chris

  On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:

What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a large 
expense.
I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea 
already exists I would rather just buy them.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that 
needs to be set.  

We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is 
about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx 
sens. 

I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

  That's also a compelling point.

  It's not a simple question for sure.  

  The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company 
wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY 
will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

  Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a 
bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.

  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chuck McCown" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. 

For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself 
to do PON.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:

 Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
  To: Adam Moffett
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Adam,

  There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The 
requirement
  when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs 
cannot
  exceed 20Km."

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf

Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local
supplier that stocks them.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

> Could you give me a source for your handholes?
> I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel
> lids.  But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly
> HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see
> heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not
> perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer
> concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.
>
> This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping
> architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I
> wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when
> we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy.
>
> Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count
> main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a
> viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some
> handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing
> to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very
> well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with
> it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave
> some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or
> there as houses are built and what not.
>
> Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much
> the same.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:
>
>> What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a
>> large expense.
>> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea
>> already exists I would rather just buy them.
>>
>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>> that needs to be set.
>>
>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
>> sens.
>>
>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>
>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>>
>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>
>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>
>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>
>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
>>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>>> too.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>>
>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>>> cabinets.
>>>
>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself
>>> to do PON.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>>
>>>
>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>>>
>>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
>>> *To:* Adam Moffett
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Adam,
>>>
>>> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
>>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
>>> exceed 20Km."
>>>
>>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long
>>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
>>>
>>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into
>>> the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example,

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Chris,

Once again not saying it is right or wrong.  All depends on your requirements.  Just wanted to throw out another design option for people to look at.  One of the nice things about GPON is the way one can get very creative with the splits.  I have looked at the tap option before, actually have a few weighted 1x2 splitters here in the office.  In my case every time I think about using them, I usually end up using a different design.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, February 15, 2018, 1:41:18 PM, you wrote:





Mark, In our area, limited new house construction. So, we design our plant to serve existing houses. You of course have the option of putting in all the taps you might need now, rather than cutting them in later. We usually end up with at least one drop coming back to maybe 80% of the handholes. I have not yet, one year in using this method, had to cut service to install a new tap. If you are good at splicing it "should" be only a couple minutes of downtime. I'm never claiming it's the right choice for everyone, or right choice for everywhere in your network. I just know it lets me go many miles and a 200-300 homes served on a 12 count mainline that costs me <20 cents a foot. I think that's pretty awesome, and it's almost never even discussed as an option by most FTTH people. 

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies  wrote:




Chris,

It all depends on scale.  Not saying taps won't work, just saying I could never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 customers.  Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone south of the new tap offline.  In the scheme I just posted, everything flows south.  Taps would be great in a static environment where you can install them once and not worry about new customers.  The area I designed for was only 30% built out.  Also, this is the exception to the rule.  I would NEVER advise people to build their whole network like this.  

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--


Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote:





Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.  

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. 

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and what not. 

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the same. 

Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:




What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a large expense.
I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea already exists I would rather just buy them.  

From: Chris Fabien
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set.  

We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. 

I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:




That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown"

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Mark, In our area, limited new house construction. So, we design our plant
to serve existing houses. You of course have the option of putting in all
the taps you might need now, rather than cutting them in later. We usually
end up with at least one drop coming back to maybe 80% of the handholes. I
have not yet, one year in using this method, had to cut service to install
a new tap. If you are good at splicing it "should" be only a couple minutes
of downtime. I'm never claiming it's the right choice for everyone, or
right choice for everywhere in your network. I just know it lets me go many
miles and a 200-300 homes served on a 12 count mainline that costs me <20
cents a foot. I think that's pretty awesome, and it's almost never even
discussed as an option by most FTTH people.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies  wrote:

> Chris,
>
> It all depends on scale.  Not saying taps won't work, just saying I could
> never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 customers.
> Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone south of the new tap
> offline.  In the scheme I just posted, everything flows south.  Taps would
> be great in a static environment where you can install them once and not
> worry about new customers.  The area I designed for was only 30% built
> out.  Also, this is the exception to the rule.  I would NEVER advise people
> to build their whole network like this.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote: *
>
> Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly
> HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see
> heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not
> perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer
> concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.
>
> This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping
> architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I
> wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when
> we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy.
>
> Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count
> main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a
> viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some
> handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing
> to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very
> well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with
> it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave
> some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or
> there as houses are built and what not.
>
> Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much
> the same.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:
>
> What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a
> large expense.
> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea
> already exists I would rather just buy them.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
> that needs to be set.
>
> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
> sens.
>
> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>
> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
> That's also a compelling point.
>
> It's not a simple question for sure.
>
> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>
> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
> too.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
> cabinets.
>
> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to
> do PON.
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 2/15/18 10:11 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
And the customer that lost $50K in day trading can’t pay their bill 
because of that...



Of course more often than not the people that "lose money" if their 
internet goes down are always the people that pick the cheapest service 
level.

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

We can do that.  Maybe my wife’s new smoker will be done by then and we can eat 
some smoky dead animals.  

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

Chuck,  

I like the idea of bringing it back to the roots, no real firm plan, just play 
around with some stuff? 

TJ

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 3:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Red Iguana

  We could do it kinda like it started.  

  Pick a date next winter, I will reserve a hotel conference room and whoever 
shows up shows up.  

  Not sure what Wispa would think about that...

  From: Cameron Crum 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 3:57 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

  I vote to move AF back to Salt Lake. It was a good excuse to get some powder 
days in...oh, and the conference was good too. 


  On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 1:31 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

and three NANOGs, one GPF, one PTC, etc. 




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Jay Weekley" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 12:00:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I admit I had a bit of conference fatigue with Animal Farm, two WISPA 
shows and a FISPA conference all in the same year.

Chuck McCown wrote:
> It can be done.  We outsourced much of it once we got the process 
> down.  But WispAmerica has been pretty good to me and I think they 
> think that AF as its own show may cut attendance to WispAmerica.
> Two shows, same season, one much cheaper than the other...
> So yeah, WispAmerica has an AnimalFarm track.  Same format as before.  
> Manufacturers send engineers and we discuss technical stuff.  And I 
> don’t have to do much other than MC the event.
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 8:27 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
> Chuck,
> How feasible would it be to bring AF back to Utah and outsource the 
> unpalatable parts of planning?
> Obviously the cost would go up per person? Once you broke it off into 
> wispa I haven't attended since...
> Maybe I should give it a shot, you will be having a AF group @ 
> wispamerica in 20 days?
> TJ
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Faisal Imtiaz 
>  wrote:
>
> >>My surge protectors are known to have an enhancement effect...
> Thus the need for a fuse !
> :)
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net
>
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518  Option 2 or
> Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
> 

>
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:31:55 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
> My surge protectors are known to have an enhancement effect...
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 2:13 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck 

> That's hitting the nail on the head.  I don't want penis
> enlargement spam, but I definitely want to hear about surge
> protectors and power systems and network equipment.
> Spam me Chuck.  Spam me like one of your French girls.
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mathew Howard" 
> To: "af" 
> Sent: 2/13/2018 3:57:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
> Ha... I never even realized that those weren't going to
> the list anymore... for some reason gmail puts it in my
> afmug folder.
>
> The only thing that's slightly annoying is that I get them
> more than once because my other email address is on
> Chuck's list too, but I don't care enough to bother
> unsubscribing... I actually like getting spam about stuff
> that I'm interested in.
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown
>  wrote:
>
> Doing it this way, someone can simply unsubscribe from
> the spam but not the list.  And Mail Chimp will never
> ever ever ever let me send that person anything again
> for all of eternity.  They rate

Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

+1

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 8:18 AM, Robert  wrote:

> +1
>
> On 2/15/18 7:49 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
>> I can.ï¿½ I can have them hanging out the front and eliminate the finger
>> pull hole.
>> *From:* Gino A. Villarini
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 7:49 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...
>> You can make the cards longerï¿½
>> From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown <
>> ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 4:02 PM
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...
>>
>> *//*
>>
>> */Gino A. Villarini/*
>>
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>> I ran out of room when I tried.ï¿½ That is on the APC version.
>> *From:* Gino A. Villarini
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 12:30 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...
>> O need both the SS and the Fuse? canï¿½t they be integrated in the same
>> unit?
>> From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown <
>> ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 11:50 AM
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...
>>
>> *//*
>>
>> */Gino A. Villarini/*
>>
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>> Two similar questions:
>> Surge suppressors can blow ports.ï¿½ If you have a surge, the surge
>> protector will clamp all the Ethernet lines to ground.ï¿½ That shorts them
>> all together and grounds them.ï¿½ That will also blow some POE ports.
>> So you need surge protectors to protect things from surges, but you need
>> fuses to protect the POE source from the surge protector.ï¿½ Learned this
>> the hard way.
>> *From:* can...@believewireless.net
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:48 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...
>> So for a Netonix, do we just need the fuse or do we need the surge
>> arrestor card as well?
>> On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:41 AM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>> per chuck they must be fueses to protect a netonix, anything else
>> was too slow.
>> On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 7:34 AM, Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure you already thought about this, but is it possible to
>> make a device that recovers automatically after the short
>> circuit has ended while also responding fast enough to protect
>> the port?
>>
>> Is it a case where it's possible but costs too much?
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>> To: "Animal Farm" 
>> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:27:32 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...
>>
>> We have been shipping for months.
>> The cost of having a Netonix port repaired is more than the
>> cost of the fuse.
>> And then there is the labor and downtime and other
>> intangible expenses involved in blowing a port.
>>
>> The prices are lower if you buy from one of my
>> distributors.ï¿½ I don't encourage anyone to buy off my
>> ecommerce site and pay full list price.ï¿½ That site is only
>> there to generate sales for distributors.
>>
>> All of my products have prices based on cost plus margin.
>>  Same formula across the board pretty much.ï¿½ I try to have
>> unique products you can't get other places.ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ If volume
>> increases on a product, I sometimes adjust the price down
>> due to the fact that my costs come down.ï¿½ For example, if I
>> am buying 1000 surge protector PCBs, I may be paying $1 for
>> each.ï¿½ But if I am only buying 100 of them it may be $2.50.
>>
>> I recently adjusted the cost down on my 8 circuit tower
>> surge protector for exactly this reason. Volume picked up, I
>> worked on sourcing and buying and was able to drop the list
>> price considerably and still maintain my margins.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Faisal Imtiaz
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:00 AM
>> To: Animal Farm
>> Subject: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...
>>
>> Hi Chuck,
>>
>> Great to hear about the new product, the POE Fuse.
>>
>> Question & critique.
>> When are these going to be available ?
>> We would like to see these priced a bit more aggressive...
>> (At the current pricing, the cost of fusing multiple ports
>> appears to be exceeding the cost of 'poe switch' it is
>> protecting ! )
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

Chuck,

I like the idea of bringing it back to the roots, no real firm plan, just
play around with some stuff?

TJ

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 3:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Red Iguana
>
> We could do it kinda like it started.
>
> Pick a date next winter, I will reserve a hotel conference room and
> whoever shows up shows up.
>
> Not sure what Wispa would think about that...
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 3:57 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
> I vote to move AF back to Salt Lake. It was a good excuse to get some
> powder days in...oh, and the conference was good too.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 1:31 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> and three NANOGs, one GPF, one PTC, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Jay Weekley" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 14, 2018 12:00:16 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>
>> I admit I had a bit of conference fatigue with Animal Farm, two WISPA
>> shows and a FISPA conference all in the same year.
>>
>> Chuck McCown wrote:
>> > It can be done.  We outsourced much of it once we got the process
>> > down.  But WispAmerica has been pretty good to me and I think they
>> > think that AF as its own show may cut attendance to WispAmerica.
>> > Two shows, same season, one much cheaper than the other...
>> > So yeah, WispAmerica has an AnimalFarm track.  Same format as before.
>> > Manufacturers send engineers and we discuss technical stuff.  And I
>> > don’t have to do much other than MC the event.
>> > *From:* TJ Trout
>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 8:27 PM
>> > *To:* af@afmug.com
>> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>> > Chuck,
>> > How feasible would it be to bring AF back to Utah and outsource the
>> > unpalatable parts of planning?
>> > Obviously the cost would go up per person? Once you broke it off into
>> > wispa I haven't attended since...
>> > Maybe I should give it a shot, you will be having a AF group @
>> > wispamerica in 20 days?
>> > TJ
>> > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Faisal Imtiaz
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> > >>My surge protectors are known to have an enhancement effect...
>> > Thus the need for a fuse !
>> > :)
>> > Faisal Imtiaz
>> > Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> > http://www.snappytelecom.net
>> >
>> > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <(305)%20663-5518>
>> 
>> >
>> > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518>
>>  Option 2 or
>> > Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>> > 
>> 
>> >
>> > *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> > *To: *af@afmug.com
>> > *Sent: *Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:31:55 PM
>> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>> >
>> > My surge protectors are known to have an enhancement effect...
>> > *From:* Adam Moffett
>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 2:13 PM
>> > *To:* af@afmug.com
>> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>
>> > That's hitting the nail on the head.  I don't want penis
>> > enlargement spam, but I definitely want to hear about surge
>> > protectors and power systems and network equipment.
>> > Spam me Chuck.  Spam me like one of your French girls.
>> > -- Original Message --
>> > From: "Mathew Howard" 
>> > To: "af" 
>> > Sent: 2/13/2018 3:57:19 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>> >
>> > Ha... I never even realized that those weren't going to
>> > the list anymore... for some reason gmail puts it in my
>> > afmug folder.
>> >
>> > The only thing that's slightly annoying is that I get them
>> > more than once because my other email address is on
>> > Chuck's list too, but I don't care enough to bother
>> > unsubscribing... I actually like getting spam about stuff
>> > that I'm interested in.
>> > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:53 PM, Chuck McCown
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> > Doing it this

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Could you give me a source for your handholes?
I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel lids.  
But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE 
handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy 
traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but 
the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, worth 
having to replace one or two a year.   

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture 
very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen this 
video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea 
by another fiber upstart guy. 

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main 
and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable 
approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes 
you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and 
what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our 
area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have 
the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can 
tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and 
what not. 

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the 
same. 

Chris

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:

  What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a large 
expense.
  I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea 
already exists I would rather just buy them.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference 
of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be 
set.  

  We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about 
+5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. 

  I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

  We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

  On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company 
wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY 
will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a 
bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

  When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.  
  For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself 
to do PON.  

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:

   Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The 
requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long 
stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that 
into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 
count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending 
on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 
10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

We build to the lots passed, so we are not

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTAnd the customer that lost $50K in day trading can’t 
pay their bill because of that...

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

Fiber A & B are fibers on the main line.  Splice Fiber A to 1x4 splitter to 
Drop(1-4).  Take Fiber B from main line and splice to drop Fiber 9.  Splice 
Drop 1 to 1x4 splitter to Drop(5-8).  At this point Drop fibers 5-8 are hot for 
customers.  Proceed down the road till you pass 8 lots being each of those 
fibers can be split another 2 times.  After 8 lots, splice Drop 2 to another 
1x4 splitter and reuse Drop (5-8).  Go another 8 lots. Rinse and repeat using 
Drops 3 & 4.  That gives you 32 splits.  Repeat the whole process again using 
fiber 9 and reusing 1-8 as before for another 32 lots.  Using 12 fiber drop 
also allows us to use cheap coyote splice cases.  The 1x4 splitters are all 
spliced in during construction.  The 1x2 are only spliced in when putting a 
customer online.  So, if a second customer come in later we don't have to 
disturb the first customer.   Based on this scheme I expect an even amount of 
customers in each handhole.  However, if for some reason I had an odd number 
and needed that extra drop up or down the road, I would just splice it in to 
10-12 on the drop as transport between handholes.  Remember I can always reuse 
10-12 as transport again if needed down the road.

This seems a bit more complicated than the taps at first.  But there are a 
couple benefits.  First, I know my loss exactly everywhere.  It won't change as 
customers are added.  Second, when customers are added, there should be no 
interruption of service to existing customers.  I could never figure out how to 
do that with the taps.  Lets say you have a road running north/south with 10 
customers that you have used taps on.  Light comes in from the north and you 
have customers 1-10 heading south.  Now lets say someone builds a house between 
customer 1 and 2.  You now have to figure out what weight of a tap you can put 
in and how it will effect the downstream guys.  Also, while you are splicing in 
the new customer, existing customers 2-10 are kicked off line.  Murphy's law 
states as soon as you cut that fiber to put the tap in, A: The splicer battery 
will die or B: a downstream customer will loss $50k in day trading.  

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:02:30 PM, you wrote:

 I know I would be interested in seeing a simple line drawing schematic of 
this example.

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM
  To: Chris Fabien
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chris,

  You can do very creative things with splitters.  I just finished 
designing service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road.  We didn't want to 
spend a bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but 
we wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the 
future.  Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to design 
this on a 12 fiber drop cable. 

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote:

   You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First 
few handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 
12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are 
starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up a 
spreadsheet and play with it. 

On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

 There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 
10/90 splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?

  Class B or class C optics?

  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chris Fabien" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

   Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural 
where you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses 
per mile too. 

The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) 
those can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the 
fibers meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass 
typical GPON wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 
10G PON techs.

Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or 
to a second "normal" PLC splitter to serve

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Chris,

It all depends on scale.  Not saying taps won't work, just saying I could never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 customers.  Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone south of the new tap offline.  In the scheme I just posted, everything flows south.  Taps would be great in a static environment where you can install them once and not worry about new customers.  The area I designed for was only 30% built out.  Also, this is the exception to the rule.  I would NEVER advise people to build their whole network like this.  

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote:






Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.  

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. 

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and what not. 

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the same. 

Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:




What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a large expense.
I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea already exists I would rather just buy them.  
 
From: Chris Fabien
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set.  
 
We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. 
 
I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
 
We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
 
On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:




That's also a compelling point.
 
It's not a simple question for sure.  
 
The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 
 
Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.
 
 
-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 




When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets.  
 
When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.  
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON.  
 
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:





Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on density

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Thanks for the information Mark, might have to sketch this out to fully
wrap my head around it though :)

On Thursday, February 15, 2018, Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Chuck,
>
>
> Fiber A & B are fibers on the main line.  Splice Fiber A to 1x4 splitter
> to Drop(1-4).  Take Fiber B from main line and splice to drop Fiber 9.
> Splice Drop 1 to 1x4 splitter to Drop(5-8).  At this point Drop fibers 5-8
> are hot for customers.  Proceed down the road till you pass 8 lots being
> each of those fibers can be split another 2 times.  After 8 lots, splice
> Drop 2 to another 1x4 splitter and reuse Drop (5-8).  Go another 8 lots.
> Rinse and repeat using Drops 3 & 4.  That gives you 32 splits.  Repeat the
> whole process again using fiber 9 and reusing 1-8 as before for another 32
> lots.  Using 12 fiber drop also allows us to use cheap coyote splice
> cases.  The 1x4 splitters are all spliced in during construction.  The 1x2
> are only spliced in when putting a customer online.  So, if a second
> customer come in later we don't have to disturb the first customer.   Based
> on this scheme I expect an even amount of customers in each handhole.
> However, if for some reason I had an odd number and needed that extra drop
> up or down the road, I would just splice it in to 10-12 on the drop as
> transport between handholes.  Remember I can always reuse 10-12 as
> transport again if needed down the road.
>
> This seems a bit more complicated than the taps at first.  But there are a
> couple benefits.  First, I know my loss exactly everywhere.  It won't
> change as customers are added.  Second, when customers are added, there
> should be no interruption of service to existing customers.  I could never
> figure out how to do that with the taps.  Lets say you have a road running
> north/south with 10 customers that you have used taps on.  Light comes in
> from the north and you have customers 1-10 heading south.  Now lets say
> someone builds a house between customer 1 and 2.  You now have to figure
> out what weight of a tap you can put in and how it will effect the
> downstream guys.  Also, while you are splicing in the new customer,
> existing customers 2-10 are kicked off line.  Murphy's law states as soon
> as you cut that fiber to put the tap in, A: The splicer battery will die or
> B: a downstream customer will loss $50k in day trading.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:02:30 PM, you wrote: *
>
> I know I would be interested in seeing a simple line drawing schematic of
> this example.
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM
> *To:* Chris Fabien
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Chris,
>
> You can do very creative things with splitters.  I just finished designing
> service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road.  We didn't want to spend a
> bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we
> wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the
> future.  Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to
> design this on a 12 fiber drop cable.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote: *
>
> You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few
> handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about
> 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are
> starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up
> a spreadsheet and play with it.
>
> On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
> There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90
> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?
>
> Class B or class C optics?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chris Fabien" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have
> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile
> too.
>
> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in
> any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are
> common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON
> wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON
> techs.
>
> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal"
> PLC splitter to serve multiple drops.
>
> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole
> with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the
> cabinet.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly
HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see
heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not
perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer
concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture
very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen
this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested
the idea by another fiber upstart guy.

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count
main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a
viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some
handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing
to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very
well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with
it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave
some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or
there as houses are built and what not.

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much
the same.

Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:

> What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a
> large expense.
> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea
> already exists I would rather just buy them.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
> that needs to be set.
>
> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
> sens.
>
> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>
> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
>> That's also a compelling point.
>>
>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>
>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>
>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>> too.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>>
>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>> cabinets.
>>
>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself
>> to do PON.
>>
>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>>
>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>>
>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>>
>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
>> *To:* Adam Moffett
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Adam,
>>
>> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
>> exceed 20Km."
>>
>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long
>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
>>
>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the
>> last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count
>> cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on
>> density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons
>> 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.
>>
>> We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage
>> per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>>
>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:*
>>
>> Maybe I need to review the math.
>>
>> I was figuring on several

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Chuck,


Fiber A & B are fibers on the main line.  Splice Fiber A to 1x4 splitter to Drop(1-4).  Take Fiber B from main line and splice to drop Fiber 9.  Splice Drop 1 to 1x4 splitter to Drop(5-8).  At this point Drop fibers 5-8 are hot for customers.  Proceed down the road till you pass 8 lots being each of those fibers can be split another 2 times.  After 8 lots, splice Drop 2 to another 1x4 splitter and reuse Drop (5-8).  Go another 8 lots. Rinse and repeat using Drops 3 & 4.  That gives you 32 splits.  Repeat the whole process again using fiber 9 and reusing 1-8 as before for another 32 lots.  Using 12 fiber drop also allows us to use cheap coyote splice cases.  The 1x4 splitters are all spliced in during construction.  The 1x2 are only spliced in when putting a customer online.  So, if a second customer come in later we don't have to disturb the first customer.   Based on this scheme I expect an even amount of customers in each handhole.  However, if for some reason I had an odd number and needed that extra drop up or down the road, I would just splice it in to 10-12 on the drop as transport between handholes.  Remember I can always reuse 10-12 as transport again if needed down the road.

This seems a bit more complicated than the taps at first.  But there are a couple benefits.  First, I know my loss exactly everywhere.  It won't change as customers are added.  Second, when customers are added, there should be no interruption of service to existing customers.  I could never figure out how to do that with the taps.  Lets say you have a road running north/south with 10 customers that you have used taps on.  Light comes in from the north and you have customers 1-10 heading south.  Now lets say someone builds a house between customer 1 and 2.  You now have to figure out what weight of a tap you can put in and how it will effect the downstream guys.  Also, while you are splicing in the new customer, existing customers 2-10 are kicked off line.  Murphy's law states as soon as you cut that fiber to put the tap in, A: The splicer battery will die or B: a downstream customer will loss $50k in day trading.  

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:02:30 PM, you wrote:





I know I would be interested in seeing a simple line drawing schematic of this example.
 
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM
To: Chris Fabien
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
Chris,

You can do very creative things with splitters.  I just finished designing service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road.  We didn't want to spend a bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the future.  Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to design this on a 12 fiber drop cable. 

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote:





You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up a spreadsheet and play with it. 

On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:




There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90 splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?

Class B or class C optics?


-- Original Message --
From: "Chris Fabien" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too. 

The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs.

Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. 

We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet. 

On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:




Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.  

I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't remember the name of can be uneven.  
In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and

Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: Cambium Networks Inc. FCC ID Application for NewEquipment

Internal and external photos are the same.  

From: Colin Stanners 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Fwd: Cambium Networks Inc. FCC ID Application for NewEquipment

Fancy new ePMP...

-- Forwarded message --
From: FCC ID Alert 
Date: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 11:30 AM
Subject: Cambium Networks Inc. FCC ID Application for New Equipment
To: cstann...@gmail.com

A new FCC ID application has been submitted by Cambium Networks Inc. for New 
Equipment.
See FCC ID Z8H89FT0017 
Equipment Authorized: Force 300 Fixed Transceiver

[AFMUG] Fwd: Cambium Networks Inc. FCC ID Application for New Equipment

2018-02-15 Thread Colin Stanners

Fancy new ePMP...

-- Forwarded message --
From: FCC ID Alert 
Date: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 11:30 AM
Subject: Cambium Networks Inc. FCC ID Application for New Equipment
To: cstann...@gmail.com

A new FCC ID application has been submitted by Cambium Networks Inc. for
New Equipment.
See FCC ID Z8H89FT0017

Equipment Authorized: Force 300 Fixed Transceiver

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTI know I would be interested in seeing a simple line 
drawing schematic of this example.

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM
To: Chris Fabien 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chris,

You can do very creative things with splitters.  I just finished designing 
service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road.  We didn't want to spend a bunch 
of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we wanted to 
make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the future.  Using a 
combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to design this on a 12 fiber 
drop cable. 

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote:

 You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few 
handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 
handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting 
further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up a 
spreadsheet and play with it. 

  On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

   There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90 
splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?

Class B or class C optics?

-- Original Message --
From: "Chris Fabien" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

 Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where 
you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per 
mile too. 

  The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those 
can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers 
meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON 
wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs.

  Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a 
second "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. 

  We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or 
so handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from 
the cabinet. 

  On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett"  
wrote:

   Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", 
except where he's got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.  

I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other 
type which I can't remember the name of can be uneven.  
In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's 
called a "coupler", and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating 
sleeve".

-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

 Interesting, so you have splitters that divide 
light unevenly? Or am I misunderstanding you? 

  On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared 
the ZTE GPON stuff with Ubiquiti's offering...

  On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien 
 wrote:

 We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN 
PLC to fees drops at that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 
10% into the 1x4 and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. 
Troubleshooting can be tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. 
 The benefit is I can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 
12ct mainline and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.

On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
 wrote:

 Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at 
each drop? I've been considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any 
problem(s) arise, seems like a nightmare.

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien 
 wrote:

 With some very appreciated help from Gerard 
myself and another Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards 
description is accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the 
F660 ONU we went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a 
different router that solves the problem.

Our long term plan for that is to switch to a 
SmartRG GPON res

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Mark -

You're just using standard splitters?

On Thursday, February 15, 2018, Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Chris,
>
> You can do very creative things with splitters.  I just finished designing
> service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road.  We didn't want to spend a
> bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we
> wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the
> future.  Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to
> design this on a 12 fiber drop cable.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote: *
>
> You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few
> handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about
> 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are
> starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up
> a spreadsheet and play with it.
>
> On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
> There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90
> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?
>
> Class B or class C optics?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chris Fabien" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have
> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile
> too.
>
> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in
> any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are
> common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON
> wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON
> techs.
>
> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal"
> PLC splitter to serve multiple drops.
>
> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole
> with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the
> cabinet.
>
> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
> Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got
> 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.
>
> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't
> remember the name of can be uneven.
> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and
> the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Jason McKemie" 
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I
> misunderstanding you?
>
> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with
> Ubiquiti's offering...
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that
> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and
> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be
> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.
>
> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
> wrote:
>
> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
> seems like a nightmare.
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan
> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate.
> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went
> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router
> that solves the problem.
>
> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway
> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
> wifi and voip.
>
> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot
> of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
>
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont"  wrote:
>
> Chuck,
>
> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of several
> other operators using the same setup now too.
>
> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made
> unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
>
> You can even get an outdoor

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

*the yolk - sometime swipe typing does me wrong.

On Thursday, February 15, 2018, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I prefer 8 minutes, that way there yolk is just barely solid, not chalky.
> I guess it depends on how you're preparing them.
>
> On Thursday, February 15, 2018, Brian Webster 
> wrote:
>
>> If it weren’t for this list I would have never investigated a better way
>> to make hard boiled eggs!
>>
>>
>>
>> For the record, boiling the water first then adding the eggs for the 12
>> minutes works great J There was a lot of scientific research contributed
>> to the group by Chuck on that topic….
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>
>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 8:40 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am going to attempt to put something on the signup process warning
>> folks that they will be subject to horrible amounts of on-topic spam.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Philip Rankin
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 6:28 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>> Spam me all you want Chuck. Unbeknownst to you, you have helped me more
>> than about anyone throughout the years with your wisdom and products Sir!
>> I suspect the same can be said about almost everyone on this list!  I
>> sincerely appreciate your list, your work, products and more so your wisdom
>> throughout the years. Spam away Buddy!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:43 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Awesome!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2018 5:30 PM,  wrote:
>>
>> Got a guest room waiting for you.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:21 PM
>>
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe this summer I might drive up to bother Chuck and Jennywe are
>> thinking of hiking near 4 corners area. Depends on Windy City schedule and
>> SCADA projects...I think I can bribe him with choice El Paso eats to
>> let me tour his chop shop.
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2018 5:00 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:
>>
>> Can I show up in Utah sometime anyways... I am dying to see the new LED
>> cavern lights...  :)
>>
>> On 02/13/2018 02:48 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was
>> born... again...
>> I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still
>> remember names.
>> But I think we have kinda patched things up.
>> They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my
>> blessings and I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.
>> As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old
>> and lazy to put on the show.
>> *From:* Chuck Hogg
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>> Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer"
>> listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the
>> time, and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list,
>> as I was a vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan,
>> some other distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola
>> list wasn't Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore. I
>> notified Chuck M of the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped
>> from under me...and before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was
>> going to be taken over, Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down
>> the motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG list was born.  A...the
>> memories :)
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the
>> motorola@ list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list
>> server went down and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of
>> town? I don't remember if that was the case) and finally brought it
>> back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More accurately,
>> the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for a
>> short time on the WISPA list serv?
>>
>> I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.
>>
>> On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>>
>> You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got
>> here….
>>
>> The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to
>> WISPA.  Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the
>> organization. One day Michael was mad about something and posted
>> the infamous “I quit”

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I prefer 8 minutes, that way there yolk is just barely solid, not chalky. I
guess it depends on how you're preparing them.

On Thursday, February 15, 2018, Brian Webster 
wrote:

> If it weren’t for this list I would have never investigated a better way
> to make hard boiled eggs!
>
>
>
> For the record, boiling the water first then adding the eggs for the 12
> minutes works great J There was a lot of scientific research contributed
> to the group by Chuck on that topic….
>
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 8:40 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> I am going to attempt to put something on the signup process warning folks
> that they will be subject to horrible amounts of on-topic spam.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Philip Rankin
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 6:28 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
>
>
> Spam me all you want Chuck. Unbeknownst to you, you have helped me more
> than about anyone throughout the years with your wisdom and products Sir!
> I suspect the same can be said about almost everyone on this list!  I
> sincerely appreciate your list, your work, products and more so your wisdom
> throughout the years. Spam away Buddy!
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:43 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> Awesome!!!
>
>
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
>
>
> On Feb 13, 2018 5:30 PM,  wrote:
>
> Got a guest room waiting for you.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:21 PM
>
> *To:* Animal Farm
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>
>
>
> Maybe this summer I might drive up to bother Chuck and Jennywe are
> thinking of hiking near 4 corners area. Depends on Windy City schedule and
> SCADA projects...I think I can bribe him with choice El Paso eats to
> let me tour his chop shop.
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
>
>
> On Feb 13, 2018 5:00 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:
>
> Can I show up in Utah sometime anyways... I am dying to see the new LED
> cavern lights...  :)
>
> On 02/13/2018 02:48 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was born...
> again...
> I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still
> remember names.
> But I think we have kinda patched things up.
> They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my blessings
> and I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.
> As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old
> and lazy to put on the show.
> *From:* Chuck Hogg
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
> Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer"
> listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the
> time, and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as
> I was a vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some
> other distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list
> wasn't Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore. I notified
> Chuck M of the pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under
> me...and before WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be
> taken over, Chuck M converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the
> motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG list was born.  A...the memories :)
> Regards,
> Chuck
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
> Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the
> motorola@ list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list
> server went down and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of
> town? I don't remember if that was the case) and finally brought it
> back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More accurately,
> the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for a
> short time on the WISPA list serv?
>
> I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.
>
> On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>
> You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got
> here….
>
> The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to
> WISPA.  Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the
> organization. One day Michael was mad about something and posted
> the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty much the end
> of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during a
> Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.
>
> Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was
> called AFMUG at the time, but it later became that.

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Chris,

You can do very creative things with splitters.  I just finished designing service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road.  We didn't want to spend a bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the future.  Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to design this on a 12 fiber drop cable. 

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote:






You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up a spreadsheet and play with it. 

On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:




There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90 splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?

Class B or class C optics?


-- Original Message --
From: "Chris Fabien" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too. 

The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs.

Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. 

We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet. 

On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:




Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.  

I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't remember the name of can be uneven.  
In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I misunderstanding you? 

On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with Ubiquiti's offering...

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien  wrote:




We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.

On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie"  wrote:




Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, seems like a nightmare.


On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien  wrote:




With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router that solves the problem.

Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC wifi and voip.

We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.



On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont"  wrote:




Chuck,

Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of several other operators using the same setup now too. 

It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. 

You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx

Gerard

On Mon, Feb 12,

Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

2018-02-15 Thread Robert


+1

On 2/15/18 7:49 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I can.ï¿½ I can have them hanging out the front and eliminate the finger 
pull hole.

*From:* Gino A. Villarini
*Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 7:49 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...
You can make the cards longerï¿½
From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 4:02 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

*//*

*/Gino A. Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

I ran out of room when I tried.ï¿½ That is on the APC version.
*From:* Gino A. Villarini
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 12:30 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...
O need both the SS and the Fuse? canï¿½t they be integrated in the same unit?
From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 11:50 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

*//*

*/Gino A. Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

Two similar questions:
Surge suppressors can blow ports.ï¿½ If you have a surge, the surge 
protector will clamp all the Ethernet lines to ground.ï¿½ That shorts them 
all together and grounds them.ï¿½ That will also blow some POE ports.
So you need surge protectors to protect things from surges, but you need 
fuses to protect the POE source from the surge protector.ï¿½ Learned this 
the hard way.

*From:* can...@believewireless.net
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:48 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...
So for a Netonix, do we just need the fuse or do we need the surge 
arrestor card as well?

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:41 AM, TJ Trout  wrote:

per chuck they must be fueses to protect a netonix, anything else
was too slow.
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 7:34 AM, Adam Moffett 
wrote:

I'm sure you already thought about this, but is it possible to
make a device that recovers automatically after the short
circuit has ended while also responding fast enough to protect
the port?

Is it a case where it's possible but costs too much?


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Sent: 2/14/2018 10:27:32 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

We have been shipping for months.
The cost of having a Netonix port repaired is more than the
cost of the fuse.
And then there is the labor and downtime and other
intangible expenses involved in blowing a port.

The prices are lower if you buy from one of my
distributors.ï¿½ I don't encourage anyone to buy off my
ecommerce site and pay full list price.ï¿½ That site is only
there to generate sales for distributors.

All of my products have prices based on cost plus margin. 
Same formula across the board pretty much.ï¿½ I try to have

unique products you can't get other places.ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ If volume
increases on a product, I sometimes adjust the price down
due to the fact that my costs come down.ï¿½ For example, if I
am buying 1000 surge protector PCBs, I may be paying $1 for
each.ï¿½ But if I am only buying 100 of them it may be $2.50.

I recently adjusted the cost down on my 8 circuit tower
surge protector for exactly this reason. Volume picked up, I
worked on sourcing and buying and was able to drop the list
price considerably and still maintain my margins.

-Original Message- From: Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:00 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

Hi Chuck,

Great to hear about the new product, the POE Fuse.

Question & critique.
When are these going to be available ?
We would like to see these priced a bit more aggressive...
(At the current pricing, the cost of fusing multiple ports
appears to be exceeding the cost of 'poe switch' it is
protecting ! )

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518  Option 2 or
Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

Re: [AFMUG] .........Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on theTrango List

2018-02-15 Thread Mark Radabaugh

There is a ‘sort of’ standard at least with Andrew / ComScope antenna’s.  With 
the Andrew antenna’s the mounting plate and waveguide adapter is 
interchangeable. Kits exist to swap between the various brands of radios.  
I have turned PTP800 Remec mount and SAF branded antenna’s into 820C’s or 
Ceragon mounts.

Mark

> On Feb 15, 2018, at 1:18 AM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> Out of curiousity, why hasnt a standard mount bewn established. Does the 
> secondary adapter market have some kneebreakers on payroll?
> 
> On Feb 14, 2018 4:38 PM, "Jeff Broadwick - Lists"  > wrote:
> Remec rectangular.  I believe Trango is round remec.
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519  Office
> 574-220-7826  Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com 
> 
> On Feb 14, 2018, at 2:43 PM, Gino A. Villarini  > wrote:
> 
>> PTP800 is remec 
>> 
>> From: Af > on behalf of 
>> Chuck McCown >
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com " > >
>> Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 3:27 PM
>> To: "af@afmug.com " >
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on 
>> theTrango List
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> 
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> PTP820 is also Remec is it not?
>>  
>> From: George Skorup <>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 12:20 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com <>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on 
>> theTrango List
>>  
>> Possibly stupid question. Most of what we have deployed are 11GHz ApexPlus. 
>> That is a Remec circular/round interface. Is there an adapter to move to 
>> IP20/PTP820 S and/or C?
>> 
>> On 2/14/2018 10:45 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> I can build N connector adapters for the antenna too if you choose a 
>>> connectorized radio. 
>>>  
>>> From: Jeremy <>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:42 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com <>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on 
>>> theTrango List
>>>  
>>> Yeah, this particular link is 6GHz.  She said that she could maybe get me 
>>> some Wavelab heads, but if I am replacing all four radios I may as well go 
>>> with a manufacturer that is actually in business, and can support their 
>>> products.  I am just going to replace the link with a higher capacity 
>>> product and move it elsewhere.  If I need a custom adapter I'll let you 
>>> know, thanks!
>>>  
>>> On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 9:31 AM, Chuck McCown > wrote:
>>> U.. there is a strange AF11x to Remec adapter that does actually 
>>> exist, (even though Gino is probably given up hope that that is so.  I have 
>>> some done for Gino.  Just not shipped yet.)
>>>  
>>> But if you need a interspecies adapter from anything to anything, let me 
>>> know.  I can typically do one for less than the cost of a new dish/dish 
>>> install. 
>>>  
>>> From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists <>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:18 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com <>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] .Fw: [Motorola] I QUIT - This should be on 
>>> theTrango List
>>>  
>>> I expect that there will be a robust used market as people move to other 
>>> platforms.  I know at least one manufacturer that has Trango adapters for 
>>> dishes too.
>>> 
>>> Jeff Broadwick
>>> CTIconnect
>>> 312-205-2519  Office
>>> 574-220-7826  Cell
>>> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com <>
>>> 
>>> On Feb 14, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Jeremy > wrote:
>>> 
 My radios are Remecand Laurie says she can no longer get any Remec 
 heads, even at MSRP.
  
 On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Nate Burke > wrote:
 They must still have a stockpile of equipment somewhere.  I just sent an 
 Apex Plus radio in for repair a couple weeks ago.  They said they couldn't 
 repair it, but offered me the option to buy a new one at full MSRP.  But 
 yes, almost everyone is gone from Trango.  The person I was initially 
 working with on the repair was gone from Trango by the time I actually 
 sent the radio in.  
 
 On 2/14/2018 9:45 AM, Jeremy wrote:
> On another note; Did everyone here know that Trango is pretty much out of 
> business?  No sales force, no sales, RMA onlylikely for a limited 
> time.  Just tried to get radios for a 2+0 of our existing linkno dice.
>  
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Jaime Solorza  <>> wrote:
> Nah.  Just funnin ya
> 
> Jaime Solorza
>  
> On Feb 13, 2018 6:37 PM,

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

I am still up in the air between adding vinegar or baking soda to the water.
Need to add lots of salt for certain.

From: Brian Webster 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 8:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

If it weren’t for this list I would have never investigated a better way to 
make hard boiled eggs!

For the record, boiling the water first then adding the eggs for the 12 minutes 
works great J There was a lot of scientific research contributed to the group 
by Chuck on that topic….

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 8:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

Thanks,

I am going to attempt to put something on the signup process warning folks that 
they will be subject to horrible amounts of on-topic spam.  

From: Philip Rankin 

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 6:28 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

Spam me all you want Chuck. Unbeknownst to you, you have helped me more than 
about anyone throughout the years with your wisdom and products Sir!  I suspect 
the same can be said about almost everyone on this list!  I sincerely 
appreciate your list, your work, products and more so your wisdom throughout 
the years. Spam away Buddy!

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:43 PM Jaime Solorza  wrote:

  Awesome!!! 

  Jaime Solorza

  On Feb 13, 2018 5:30 PM,  wrote:

  Got a guest room waiting for you.  

  From: Jaime Solorza 

  Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:21 PM

  To: Animal Farm 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

  Maybe this summer I might drive up to bother Chuck and Jennywe are 
thinking of hiking near 4 corners area. Depends on Windy City schedule and 
SCADA projects...I think I can bribe him with choice El Paso eats to let me 
tour his chop shop.

  Jaime Solorza

  On Feb 13, 2018 5:00 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:

  Can I show up in Utah sometime anyways... I am dying to see the new LED 
cavern lights...  :)

  On 02/13/2018 02:48 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was born... 
again...
  I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still remember 
names.
  But I think we have kinda patched things up.
  They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my blessings 
and I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.
  As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old and 
lazy to put on the show.
  *From:* Chuck Hogg
  *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
  *To:* af@afmug.com
  *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
  Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer" 
listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the time, 
and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as I was a 
vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some other 
distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list wasn't 
Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore. I notified Chuck M of the 
pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under me...and before 
WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be taken over, Chuck M 
converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG 
list was born.  A...the memories :)
  Regards,
  Chuck
  On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup  
wrote:

  Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the
  motorola@ list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list
  server went down and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of
  town? I don't remember if that was the case) and finally brought it
  back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More accurately,
  the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for a
  short time on the WISPA list serv?

  I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

  On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

  You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

  The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA. 
 Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the
  organization. One day Michael was mad about something and posted
  the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty much the end
  of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during a
  Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

  Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was
  called AFMUG at the time, but it later became that.   Might have
  even been Motorola specific - not that it was ever on topic anyway.

Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

I can.  I can have them hanging out the front and eliminate the finger pull 
hole.  

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 7:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

You can make the cards longer… 

From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 4:02 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

  Gino A. Villarini

  President 
  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

I ran out of room when I tried.  That is on the APC version.  

From: Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 12:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

O need both the SS and the Fuse? can’t they be integrated in the same unit? 

From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 11:50 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

  Gino A. Villarini

  President 
  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

Two similar questions:

Surge suppressors can blow ports.  If you have a surge, the surge protector 
will clamp all the Ethernet lines to ground.  That shorts them all together and 
grounds them.  That will also blow some POE ports.  

So you need surge protectors to protect things from surges, but you need fuses 
to protect the POE source from the surge protector.  Learned this the hard way. 

From: can...@believewireless.net
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:48 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

So for a Netonix, do we just need the fuse or do we need the surge arrestor 
card as well? 

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:41 AM, TJ Trout  wrote:

  per chuck they must be fueses to protect a netonix, anything else was too 
slow.

  On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 7:34 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

I'm sure you already thought about this, but is it possible to make a 
device that recovers automatically after the short circuit has ended while also 
responding fast enough to protect the port?

Is it a case where it's possible but costs too much?

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Sent: 2/14/2018 10:27:32 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

  We have been shipping for months.
  The cost of having a Netonix port repaired is more than the cost of the 
fuse.
  And then there is the labor and downtime and other intangible expenses 
involved in blowing a port.

  The prices are lower if you buy from one of my distributors.  I don't 
encourage anyone to buy off my ecommerce site and pay full list price.  That 
site is only there to generate sales for distributors.

  All of my products have prices based on cost plus margin.  Same formula 
across the board pretty much.  I try to have unique products you can't get 
other places.If volume increases on a product, I sometimes adjust the price 
down due to the fact that my costs come down.  For example, if I am buying 1000 
surge protector PCBs, I may be paying $1 for each.  But if I am only buying 100 
of them it may be $2.50.

  I recently adjusted the cost down on my 8 circuit tower surge protector 
for exactly this reason.  Volume picked up, I worked on sourcing and buying and 
was able to drop the list price considerably and still maintain my margins.

  -Original Message- From: Faisal Imtiaz
  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:00 AM
  To: Animal Farm
  Subject: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

  Hi Chuck,

  Great to hear about the new product, the POE Fuse.

  Question & critique.
  When are these going to be available ?
  We would like to see these priced a bit more aggressive...
  (At the current pricing, the cost of fusing multiple ports appears to be 
exceeding the cost of 'poe switch' it is protecting ! )

  Regards.

  Faisal Imtiaz
  Snappy Internet & Telecom
  http://www.snappytelecom.net

  Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

  Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Just like tap loss on CATV if you have ever done one of those.  Taps closer to 
the amp have less insertion loss than taps further down the road.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 5:26 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few 
handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 
handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting 
further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up a 
spreadsheet and play with it. 

On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

  There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90 splitters 
can you put inline before you get too low on light?

  Class B or class C optics?

  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chris Fabien" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have 
long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too.  

The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in 
any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are 
common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, 
but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs.

Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" 
PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. 

We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole 
with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet. 

On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

  Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got 
30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.  

  I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't 
remember the name of can be uneven.  
  In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and 
the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".

  -- Original Message --
  From: "Jason McKemie" 
  To: "af@afmug.com" 
  Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I 
misunderstanding you?  

On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff 
with Ubiquiti's offering...

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien  wrote:

  We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at 
that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and 
90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be tricky, 
we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I can pass 2 
miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline and still have 
11 unused strands at the end to keep going.

  On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
 wrote:

Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been 
considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, seems 
like a nightmare. 

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien  
wrote:

  With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another 
Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is 
accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we 
went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router 
that solves the problem. 

  Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res 
gateway when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC 
wifi and voip.

  We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved 
us a lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.

  On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont"  
wrote:

Chuck, 

Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of 
several other operators using the same setup now too. 

It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and 
quality made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. 

You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about 
$1500 shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to 
this Huawei version. 
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx

Gerard

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTIn the olden days, 20km restriction was related to 
timing delay.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:23 PM
To: Chris Fabien 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chris,

I think the 60km max reach and 20km ONU restriction is part of the GPON 
standard and all manufacturers should have it.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 11:01:24 PM, you wrote:

 Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that 
needs to be set. 

  We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is 
about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx 
sens. 

  I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

  We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

  On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

   That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger 
company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what 
THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably 
have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind 
too.

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

 When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 
invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber 
and outdoor cabinets.  

  When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per 
customer.  
  For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time 
convincing myself to do PON.  

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
  To: Chuck McCown
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:

   Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross 
connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  
"The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between 
two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we 
travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will 
splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were 
using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles 
depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to 
ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to 
optimize max usage per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on 
our ports.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:

 Maybe I need to review the math.

  I was figuring on several small splitters along 
the route.  I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I 
brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus 
ethernet.

  -- Original Message --
  From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" 

  To: "Adam Moffett" 
  Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a large 
expense.
I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea 
already exists I would rather just buy them.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 
20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be 
set.  

We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about 
+5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. 

I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

  That's also a compelling point.

  It's not a simple question for sure.  

  The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted 
to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will 
prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

  Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias 
towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.

  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chuck McCown" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.  
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to 
do PON.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:

 Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
  To: Adam Moffett
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Adam,

  There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
  when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
  exceed 20Km."

  The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long 
stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

  We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into 
the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count 
cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on 
density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12.  
We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

  We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max 
usage per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:

   Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I 
didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every 
fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.

-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" 
To: "Adam Moffett" 
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

 Adam,

  How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on 
a 1x32 split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:

   I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per 
mile).  As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that 
if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 
times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or 
so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

2018-02-15 Thread Brian Webster

If it weren’t for this list I would have never investigated a better way to 
make hard boiled eggs!

 

For the record, boiling the water first then adding the eggs for the 12 minutes 
works great J There was a lot of scientific research contributed to the group 
by Chuck on that topic….

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

  www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 8:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

 

Thanks,

 

I am going to attempt to put something on the signup process warning folks that 
they will be subject to horrible amounts of on-topic spam.  

 

 

From: Philip Rankin 

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 6:28 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

 

Spam me all you want Chuck. Unbeknownst to you, you have helped me more than 
about anyone throughout the years with your wisdom and products Sir!  I suspect 
the same can be said about almost everyone on this list!  I sincerely 
appreciate your list, your work, products and more so your wisdom throughout 
the years. Spam away Buddy!

 

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:43 PM Jaime Solorza  wrote:

Awesome!!! 

 

Jaime Solorza

 

On Feb 13, 2018 5:30 PM,  wrote:

Got a guest room waiting for you.  

 

From: Jaime Solorza 

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:21 PM

To: Animal Farm 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

 

Maybe this summer I might drive up to bother Chuck and Jennywe are thinking 
of hiking near 4 corners area. Depends on Windy City schedule and SCADA 
projects...I think I can bribe him with choice El Paso eats to let me tour 
his chop shop.

Jaime Solorza

 

On Feb 13, 2018 5:00 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:

Can I show up in Utah sometime anyways... I am dying to see the new LED cavern 
lights...  :)

On 02/13/2018 02:48 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Yep, dead of night with greasepaint on my face  a new list was born... 
again...
I can name names over at WISPA that caused the problem I still remember 
names.
But I think we have kinda patched things up.
They have pretty much co-opted the whole AnimalFarm idea with my blessings and 
I get to go to the show once a year and see y’all.
As much as I would love to do an old fashioned AnimalFarm, I am too old and 
lazy to put on the show.
*From:* Chuck Hogg
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 3:38 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
Yes, before I was on the Board at WISPA, they had hosted "manufacturer" 
listservs.  Chuck, was the moderator of the list for "motorola" at the time, 
and his list was moved over.  I wanted to host a MikroTik@ list, as I was a 
vendor at the time for WISPA.  That's when sh!t hit the fan, some other 
distributors got butthurt, and WISPA decided that the motorola list wasn't 
Chuck M's, and the MikroTik list wasn't mine anymore. I notified Chuck M of the 
pending issues and how my list was getting ripped from under me...and before 
WISPA could notify Chuck M that his list was going to be taken over, Chuck M 
converted it to the AFMUG list, shut down the motorola@wispa list and the AFMUG 
list was born.  A...the memories :)
Regards,
Chuck
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 5:23 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

Yes, Michael Anderson. He got pissed about the OT stuff on the
motorola@ list. IIRC, shortly after the I QUIT incident, the list
server went down and he said it was a h/w failure (while out of
town? I don't remember if that was the case) and finally brought it
back up. But it was too late and AFMUG was born. More accurately,
the "Motorola II" list was born, and I believe that was hosted for a
short time on the WISPA list serv?

I think the combination of WISPAmerica and Animal Farm is great.

On 2/13/2018 4:06 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

You have to go back a long way in WISP history for how we got here….

The list was Part-15 at one time, and existed prior to WISPA.  
Can’t recall the last name - Michael somebody ran the
organization. One day Michael was mad about something and posted
the infamous “I quit” email - and that was pretty much the end
of Part 15 and the list.  I actually think that was during a
Animal Farm session if I recall correctly.

Chuck took over the list after that - I don’t think it was
called AFMUG at the time, but it later became that.   Might have
even been Motorola specific - not that it was ever on topic anyway.

There are WISPA lists - but the AFMUG list has lived on.   Yes -
it’s Chuck’s list though occasionally the members donate money
for the cost of hosting it.

This list has it’s advantages.   It’s membership leans toward a
group of people who have known each other

Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck

2018-02-15 Thread Cameron Crum

Mid January works too ;)


On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:27 PM, Mathew Howard 
wrote:

> That could work. The middle of summer would be about as far as you can get
> from the Wispa events... and punching holes in the dirt sounds like fun.
>
> On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 6:25 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Sure, but we need to pick the right season.  Nothing near any Wispa event
>> in timing either.  They are pretty good to me.
>>
>> Maybe another summer session where I break out the directional drilling
>> machine and let everyone punch some holes in the dirt.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 4:55 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>
>> I would like to ask Chuck if he would host a externally funded BBQ/BOF
>> not AF, that would be pretty informal, so that we could all get some
>> eyeball time with each other...   I like Utah cause it's driveable to so
>> much of the US and excellent flights in for the rest and it could happen
>> in a better month than when we are doing all our spring cleaning/fall
>> prepping..   Totally understand it that's not in the cards, but if there
>> was a chance, would like to propose something low-key..
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> On 02/14/2018 02:57 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>
>>> I vote to move AF back to Salt Lake. It was a good excuse to get some
>>> powder days in...oh, and the conference was good too.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 1:31 PM, Mike Hammett > af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> and three NANOGs, one GPF, one PTC, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>>
>>> >> telligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>>> company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>>
>>> >> /company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *From: *"Jay Weekley" >> >
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com 
>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 14, 2018 12:00:16 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>>
>>> I admit I had a bit of conference fatigue with Animal Farm, two WISPA
>>> shows and a FISPA conference all in the same year.
>>>
>>> Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> > It can be done.  We outsourced much of it once we got the process
>>> > down.  But WispAmerica has been pretty good to me and I think they >
>>> think that AF as its own show may cut attendance to WispAmerica.
>>> > Two shows, same season, one much cheaper than the other...
>>> > So yeah, WispAmerica has an AnimalFarm track.  Same format as
>>> before.  > Manufacturers send engineers and we discuss technical stuff. And
>>> I > don’t have to do much other than MC the event.
>>> > *From:* TJ Trout
>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 8:27 PM
>>> > *To:* af@afmug.com 
>>>  > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>> > Chuck,
>>> > How feasible would it be to bring AF back to Utah and outsource
>>> the  > unpalatable parts of planning?
>>> > Obviously the cost would go up per person? Once you broke it off
>>> into > wispa I haven't attended since...
>>> > Maybe I should give it a shot, you will be having a AF group @ >
>>> wispamerica in 20 days?
>>> > TJ
>>> > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Faisal Imtiaz > <
>>> fai...@snappytelecom.net > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >>My surge protectors are known to have an enhancement
>>> effect...
>>> > Thus the need for a fuse !
>>> > :)
>>> > Faisal Imtiaz
>>> > Snappy Internet & Telecom
>>> > http://www.snappytelecom.net
>>> >
>>> > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 
>>> 
>>> >
>>>  > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 
>>>  Option 2 or
>>>  > Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>>>
>>>  > ---
>>> -
>>> >
>>> > *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com 
>>> > *To: *af@afmug.com 
>>>  > *Sent: *Tuesday, February 13, 2018 5:31:55 PM
>>>  > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Spam from Chuck
>>> >
>>> > My surge protectors are known to have an enhancement
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

They have a couple different options to achieve this, but they are much
more expensive than just putting the bare splitters in whatever splice
tray/closure they prefer.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> I think it's Commscope (TE) that also has a solution that is for FBT with
> their MST/DLX options.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
>> You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few
>> handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about
>> 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are
>> starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up
>> a spreadsheet and play with it.
>>
>> On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>>
>>> There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90
>>> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?
>>>
>>> Class B or class C optics?
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Chris Fabien" 
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have
>>> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile
>>> too.
>>>
>>> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made
>>> in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They
>>> are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON
>>> wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON
>>> techs.
>>>
>>> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second
>>> "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops.
>>>
>>> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so
>>> handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from
>>> the cabinet.
>>>
>>> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>>>
 Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's
 got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.

 I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't
 remember the name of can be uneven.
 In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler",
 and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".


 -- Original Message --
 From: "Jason McKemie" 
 To: "af@afmug.com" 
 Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

 Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I
 misunderstanding you?

 On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff
 with Ubiquiti's offering...

 On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien 
 wrote:

> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at
> that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4
> and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can 
> be
> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.
>
> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
> seems like a nightmare.
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien 
> wrote:
>
>> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another
>> Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is
>> accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU
>> we went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a 
>> different
>> router that solves the problem.
>>
>> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res
>> gateway when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with
>> 4x4 AC wifi and voip.
>>
>> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a
>> lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont"  wrote:
>>
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
>>> several other operators using the same setup now too.
>>>
>>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality
>>> made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
>>>
>>> You

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Jon Langeler

How much margin above sensitivity should be targeted?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Feb 14, 2018, at 11:01 PM, Chris Fabien  wrote:
> 
> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference 
> of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to 
> be set. 
> 
> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about 
> +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. 
> 
> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
> 
> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
> 
>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>> That's also a compelling point.
>> 
>> It's not a simple question for sure.  
>> 
>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted 
>> to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will 
>> prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 
>> 
>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a 
>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.
>> 
>> 
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>> 
>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
>>> cabinets.  
>>>  
>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. 
>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to 
>>> do PON. 
>>>  
>>> From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>>> To: Chuck McCown
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>  
>>> Chuck,
>>> 
>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>> 
>>> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
>>> www.MyakkaTech.com
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>>> 
>>> From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
>>> To: Adam Moffett
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>> 
>>> Adam,
>>> 
>>> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
>>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
>>> exceed 20Km."
>>> 
>>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long 
>>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
>>> 
>>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the 
>>> last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count 
>>> cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on 
>>> density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 
>>> 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  
>>> 
>>> We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per 
>>> port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>> 
>>> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
>>> www.MyakkaTech.com
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Maybe I need to review the math.
>>> 
>>> I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't 
>>> compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber 
>>> back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" 
>>> To: "Adam Moffett" 
>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Adam,
>>> 
>>> How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.  
>>> Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>> 
>>> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
>>> www.MyakkaTech.com
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking at 
>>> hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down 
>>> the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm 
>>> getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses per 
>>> port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.
>>> 
>>> Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't 
>>> seeming to work out for me.
>>> 
>>> I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON 
>>> some day if I want to.
>>> 
>>> We would never max out the PON port, but looking back

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Chuck Hogg

I think it's Commscope (TE) that also has a solution that is for FBT with
their MST/DLX options.

Regards,
Chuck

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Chris Fabien  wrote:

> You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few
> handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about
> 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are
> starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up
> a spreadsheet and play with it.
>
> On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
>> There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90
>> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?
>>
>> Class B or class C optics?
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chris Fabien" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have
>> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile
>> too.
>>
>> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made
>> in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They
>> are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON
>> wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON
>> techs.
>>
>> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second
>> "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops.
>>
>> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole
>> with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the
>> cabinet.
>>
>> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>>
>>> Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's
>>> got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.
>>>
>>> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't
>>> remember the name of can be uneven.
>>> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler",
>>> and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Jason McKemie" 
>>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>>> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I
>>> misunderstanding you?
>>>
>>> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with
>>> Ubiquiti's offering...
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien  wrote:
>>>
 We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that
 splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and
 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be
 tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
 can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
 and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.

 On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie"  wrote:

 Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
 considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
 seems like a nightmare.


 On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien 
 wrote:

> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another
> Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is
> accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU
> we went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a 
> different
> router that solves the problem.
>
> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway
> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
> wifi and voip.
>
> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a
> lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
>
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont"  wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
>> several other operators using the same setup now too.
>>
>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality
>> made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
>>
>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500
>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to
>> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc
>> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626
>> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx
>>
>> Gerard
>>
>> On Mon, Feb

Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

2018-02-15 Thread Gino A. Villarini

You can make the cards longer…

From: Af > on behalf of Chuck 
McCown >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 4:02 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

Gino A. Villarini

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

I ran out of room when I tried.  That is on the APC version.

From: Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 12:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

O need both the SS and the Fuse? can’t they be integrated in the same unit?

From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 11:50 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

Gino A. Villarini

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:2FEFBECBDEC54B54AEBC8967FFCE8069@ChuckMcCownPC]

Two similar questions:

Surge suppressors can blow ports.  If you have a surge, the surge protector 
will clamp all the Ethernet lines to ground.  That shorts them all together and 
grounds them.  That will also blow some POE ports.

So you need surge protectors to protect things from surges, but you need fuses 
to protect the POE source from the surge protector.  Learned this the hard way.

From: can...@believewireless.net
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:48 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

So for a Netonix, do we just need the fuse or do we need the surge arrestor 
card as well?

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:41 AM, TJ Trout  wrote:
per chuck they must be fueses to protect a netonix, anything else was too slow.

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 7:34 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
I'm sure you already thought about this, but is it possible to make a device 
that recovers automatically after the short circuit has ended while also 
responding fast enough to protect the port?

Is it a case where it's possible but costs too much?

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Sent: 2/14/2018 10:27:32 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

We have been shipping for months.
The cost of having a Netonix port repaired is more than the cost of the fuse.
And then there is the labor and downtime and other intangible expenses involved 
in blowing a port.

The prices are lower if you buy from one of my distributors.  I don't encourage 
anyone to buy off my ecommerce site and pay full list price.  That site is only 
there to generate sales for distributors.

All of my products have prices based on cost plus margin.  Same formula across 
the board pretty much.  I try to have unique products you can't get other 
places.If volume increases on a product, I sometimes adjust the price down 
due to the fact that my costs come down.  For example, if I am buying 1000 
surge protector PCBs, I may be paying $1 for each.  But if I am only buying 100 
of them it may be $2.50.

I recently adjusted the cost down on my 8 circuit tower surge protector for 
exactly this reason.  Volume picked up, I worked on sourcing and buying and was 
able to drop the list price considerably and still maintain my margins.

-Original Message- From: Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:00 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] POE Fuse ...

Hi Chuck,

Great to hear about the new product, the POE Fuse.

Question & critique.
When are these going to be available ?
We would like to see these priced a bit more aggressive...
(At the current pricing, the cost of fusing multiple ports appears to be 
exceeding the cost of 'poe switch' it is protecting ! )

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT