Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Weekly Report

[Aris Merchant]

My Ancient Greek is practically nonexistent. I can tell what the letters
are, and I got θεὰ, but not why much more than that. Thanks for the
translation.

What is it doing in the report?

-Aris

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 9:40 PM Corona  wrote:

> ​For anyone interested: the​
>  translation is "Anger be now your
> ​ [Achilles']​
>  song".
> More literally, "Rage—Goddess, sing the rage of [Achilles]"
>
> μῆνιν = acc. sg, of rage/wrath (of the gods)
> ἄειδε = imperative active singular 2nd person of sing/chant
> θεὰ =  goddess, I think it's singular vocative
>
> ~Corona
>
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 2:51 AM, ATMunn  wrote:
>
> > Ah, ok.
> >
> >
> > On 6/12/2018 7:46 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:
> >
> >> Ancient Greek, not modern Greek. It's from the start of the Iliad. [1]
> In
> >> fact, it's the first words, or incipit, of the text.
> >>
> >> [1]  http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:19
> >> 99.01.0133
> >>
> >> -Aris
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 4:41 PM ATMunn  wrote:
> >>
> >> I tried translating the text at the top of this report. Turns out,
> >>> unless google translate is broken, it wasn't meant to be translated,
> >>> it's gibberish. (unless the language isn't supposed to be Greek?)
> >>>
> >>> On 6/12/2018 5:40 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >>>
> 
> 
> 
>  
> >>> 
> >>>
> 
> 
>  Registrar's Weekly Report
> >>>
> 
>  
> >>> 
> >>>
> 
>    Date of last report: 03 Jun 2018 Date of this report: 12 Jun 2018
>  (all times UTC)
> 
>  (μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ)
> 
>  Recent Events (recent events section not ratifying)
> 
>  08-May-18 12:50:50   Registrar initiates zombie auction for Telnaior,
>  天火狐 20-May-18 19:49:44   G. flips Telnaior's master switch to G.
>  (auction). 21-May-18 05:37:32   Corona flips 天火狐's master switch to
>  Corona (auction). 24-May-18 21:46:42   twg registers.  Welcome, twg!
>  25-May-18 23:31:10   Publius Scribonius Scholasticus sets eir master
>  switch to emself.
> 
>  (time of last report)
> 
> 
>  Players (20) (by Rule 869, Persons with 'Registered' Citizenship,
>  z=zombie)
> 
>  Player   Contact
>  Registered --   ---
>  -- Aris thoughtsoflifeandlight17 at gmail.com
>  13 Sep 16 Gaelan   gbs at canishe.com
>  15 May 17 G.   kerim at u.washington.edu
>  25 Aug 17 Cuddle Beam  cuddlebeam at gmail.com
>  25 Aug 17 Trigon   reuben.staley at gmail.com
>  24 Sep 17 Corona   liliumalbum.agora at gmail.com
>  17 Nov 17 Murphy   emurphy42 at zoho.com
>  17 Dec 17 VJ Rada  edwardostrange at gmail.com
>  29 Dec 17 Kenyon   kprater3.14 at gmail.com
>  27 Feb 18 ATMunn   iamingodsarmy at gmail.com
>  11 Mar 18 Ouri ouri.poupko at gmail.com
>  03 Apr 18 twg  me at timon.red
>  24 May 18 P. Scholasticus [1]  pscriboniusscholasticus at
>  gmail.com[2] 16 Apr 17 z  omd  comexk at gmail.com
>  [3] 03 Feb 11 z  oowen at
>  grimoire.ca 12 Jul 16 z  Quazie
>  quazienomic at gmail.com15 Apr 17 z  nichdel
>  nichdel at gmail.com29 Jun 17 z  pokes
>  pokes at botnoise.org   11 Dec 17 z  天火狐
>  draconicdarkness at gmail.com   06 Nov 16 z  Telnaior
>  jdga at iinet.net.au20 Oct 17
> 
>  [1] In full, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus [2] officially, but
>  technically equivalent p.scribonius.scholasticus at googlemail.com
>  [3] officially, but technically equivalent c.ome.xk at gmail.com
> 
> 
>  Non-default Master Switches (Player:value, self-ratifying)
> 
>  omd  : G. Quazie   : Corona nichdel  : ATMunn o: G. pokes
>  : omd Telnaior : G. 天火狐: Corona
> 
> 
>  Fora (Rule 478, self-ratifying)
> 
>  Type Location  Typical use 
>    --- Public
>  agora-official at agoranomic.org  official reports Public
>  agora-business at agoranomic.org  other business Discussion
>  agora-discussion at agoranomic.orgdiscussion Discussion
>  irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/##nomic
> 
>  
> 
> >>>    discussion Public
>  agora
> >>>
>  at listserver.tue.nlbackup
> 
>  Subscribe or unsubscribe from main lists:
>  http://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
> 
>  

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Weekly Report

[Corona]

​For anyone interested: the​
 translation is "Anger be now your
​ [Achilles']​
 song".
More literally, "Rage—Goddess, sing the rage of [Achilles]"

μῆνιν = acc. sg, of rage/wrath (of the gods)
ἄειδε = imperative active singular 2nd person of sing/chant
θεὰ =  goddess, I think it's singular vocative

~Corona

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 2:51 AM, ATMunn  wrote:

> Ah, ok.
>
>
> On 6/12/2018 7:46 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:
>
>> Ancient Greek, not modern Greek. It's from the start of the Iliad. [1] In
>> fact, it's the first words, or incipit, of the text.
>>
>> [1]  http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:19
>> 99.01.0133
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 4:41 PM ATMunn  wrote:
>>
>> I tried translating the text at the top of this report. Turns out,
>>> unless google translate is broken, it wasn't meant to be translated,
>>> it's gibberish. (unless the language isn't supposed to be Greek?)
>>>
>>> On 6/12/2018 5:40 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>>



 
>>> 
>>>


 Registrar's Weekly Report
>>>

 
>>> 
>>>

   Date of last report: 03 Jun 2018 Date of this report: 12 Jun 2018
 (all times UTC)

 (μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ)

 Recent Events (recent events section not ratifying)

 08-May-18 12:50:50   Registrar initiates zombie auction for Telnaior,
 天火狐 20-May-18 19:49:44   G. flips Telnaior's master switch to G.
 (auction). 21-May-18 05:37:32   Corona flips 天火狐's master switch to
 Corona (auction). 24-May-18 21:46:42   twg registers.  Welcome, twg!
 25-May-18 23:31:10   Publius Scribonius Scholasticus sets eir master
 switch to emself.

 (time of last report)


 Players (20) (by Rule 869, Persons with 'Registered' Citizenship,
 z=zombie)

 Player   Contact
 Registered --   ---
 -- Aris thoughtsoflifeandlight17 at gmail.com
 13 Sep 16 Gaelan   gbs at canishe.com
 15 May 17 G.   kerim at u.washington.edu
 25 Aug 17 Cuddle Beam  cuddlebeam at gmail.com
 25 Aug 17 Trigon   reuben.staley at gmail.com
 24 Sep 17 Corona   liliumalbum.agora at gmail.com
 17 Nov 17 Murphy   emurphy42 at zoho.com
 17 Dec 17 VJ Rada  edwardostrange at gmail.com
 29 Dec 17 Kenyon   kprater3.14 at gmail.com
 27 Feb 18 ATMunn   iamingodsarmy at gmail.com
 11 Mar 18 Ouri ouri.poupko at gmail.com
 03 Apr 18 twg  me at timon.red
 24 May 18 P. Scholasticus [1]  pscriboniusscholasticus at
 gmail.com[2] 16 Apr 17 z  omd  comexk at gmail.com
 [3] 03 Feb 11 z  oowen at
 grimoire.ca 12 Jul 16 z  Quazie
 quazienomic at gmail.com15 Apr 17 z  nichdel
 nichdel at gmail.com29 Jun 17 z  pokes
 pokes at botnoise.org   11 Dec 17 z  天火狐
 draconicdarkness at gmail.com   06 Nov 16 z  Telnaior
 jdga at iinet.net.au20 Oct 17

 [1] In full, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus [2] officially, but
 technically equivalent p.scribonius.scholasticus at googlemail.com
 [3] officially, but technically equivalent c.ome.xk at gmail.com


 Non-default Master Switches (Player:value, self-ratifying)

 omd  : G. Quazie   : Corona nichdel  : ATMunn o: G. pokes
 : omd Telnaior : G. 天火狐: Corona


 Fora (Rule 478, self-ratifying)

 Type Location  Typical use 
   --- Public
 agora-official at agoranomic.org  official reports Public
 agora-business at agoranomic.org  other business Discussion
 agora-discussion at agoranomic.orgdiscussion Discussion
 irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/##nomic
 

>>>    discussion Public   agora
>>>
 at listserver.tue.nlbackup

 Subscribe or unsubscribe from main lists:
 http://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo

 Subscribe or unsubscribe from tue.nl backup list:
 http://listserver.tue.nl/mailman/listinfo/agora

 The IRC channel does not require subscription; set your IRC client
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 nickname you like.


 Writs of FAGE (Rule 1789) PlayerDate --
  Kelly 17 Sep 95 Andre 13 Feb 99 BobTHJ
 16 Jan 08 P1 5 Nov 08 P2 5 Nov 08 P3
 6 Nov 08 G.29 Jun 

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Weekly Report

[ATMunn]

Ah, ok.

On 6/12/2018 7:46 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:

Ancient Greek, not modern Greek. It's from the start of the Iliad. [1] In
fact, it's the first words, or incipit, of the text.

[1]  http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0133

-Aris

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 4:41 PM ATMunn  wrote:


I tried translating the text at the top of this report. Turns out,
unless google translate is broken, it wasn't meant to be translated,
it's gibberish. (unless the language isn't supposed to be Greek?)

On 6/12/2018 5:40 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:










Registrar's Weekly Report






  Date of last report: 03 Jun 2018 Date of this report: 12 Jun 2018
(all times UTC)

(μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ)

Recent Events (recent events section not ratifying)

08-May-18 12:50:50   Registrar initiates zombie auction for Telnaior,
天火狐 20-May-18 19:49:44   G. flips Telnaior's master switch to G.
(auction). 21-May-18 05:37:32   Corona flips 天火狐's master switch to
Corona (auction). 24-May-18 21:46:42   twg registers.  Welcome, twg!
25-May-18 23:31:10   Publius Scribonius Scholasticus sets eir master
switch to emself.

(time of last report)


Players (20) (by Rule 869, Persons with 'Registered' Citizenship,
z=zombie)

Player   Contact
Registered --   ---
-- Aris thoughtsoflifeandlight17 at gmail.com
13 Sep 16 Gaelan   gbs at canishe.com
15 May 17 G.   kerim at u.washington.edu
25 Aug 17 Cuddle Beam  cuddlebeam at gmail.com
25 Aug 17 Trigon   reuben.staley at gmail.com
24 Sep 17 Corona   liliumalbum.agora at gmail.com
17 Nov 17 Murphy   emurphy42 at zoho.com
17 Dec 17 VJ Rada  edwardostrange at gmail.com
29 Dec 17 Kenyon   kprater3.14 at gmail.com
27 Feb 18 ATMunn   iamingodsarmy at gmail.com
11 Mar 18 Ouri ouri.poupko at gmail.com
03 Apr 18 twg  me at timon.red
24 May 18 P. Scholasticus [1]  pscriboniusscholasticus at
gmail.com[2] 16 Apr 17 z  omd  comexk at gmail.com
[3] 03 Feb 11 z  oowen at
grimoire.ca 12 Jul 16 z  Quazie
quazienomic at gmail.com15 Apr 17 z  nichdel
nichdel at gmail.com29 Jun 17 z  pokes
pokes at botnoise.org   11 Dec 17 z  天火狐
draconicdarkness at gmail.com   06 Nov 16 z  Telnaior
jdga at iinet.net.au20 Oct 17

[1] In full, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus [2] officially, but
technically equivalent p.scribonius.scholasticus at googlemail.com
[3] officially, but technically equivalent c.ome.xk at gmail.com


Non-default Master Switches (Player:value, self-ratifying)

omd  : G. Quazie   : Corona nichdel  : ATMunn o: G. pokes
: omd Telnaior : G. 天火狐: Corona


Fora (Rule 478, self-ratifying)

Type Location  Typical use 
  --- Public
agora-official at agoranomic.org  official reports Public
agora-business at agoranomic.org  other business Discussion
agora-discussion at agoranomic.orgdiscussion Discussion
irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/##nomic

   discussion Public   agora

at listserver.tue.nlbackup

Subscribe or unsubscribe from main lists:
http://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo

Subscribe or unsubscribe from tue.nl backup list:
http://listserver.tue.nl/mailman/listinfo/agora

The IRC channel does not require subscription; set your IRC client
to server irc.freenode.net, port 6667, channel ##nomic, and whatever
nickname you like.


Writs of FAGE (Rule 1789) PlayerDate --
 Kelly 17 Sep 95 Andre 13 Feb 99 BobTHJ
16 Jan 08 P1 5 Nov 08 P2 5 Nov 08 P3
6 Nov 08 G.29 Jun 17


Watchers (4)

The list of Watchers is not governed by the rules, but is
traditionally maintained in the Registrar's Report.  If you'd like
to be listed as a Watcher or removed from the list, feel free to
email the fora or the Registrar directly.

Watchers confirmed as of May 2017:

Nickname  Contact   --- Ørjan
oerjan at nvg.ntnu.no

Watchers confirmed as of May 2013:

Nickname  Contact   --- Dave
davidnicol at gmail.com Phlogistique  noe.rubinstein at
gmail.com Steve zardoz37 at gmail.com

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Weekly Report

[Aris Merchant]

Ancient Greek, not modern Greek. It's from the start of the Iliad. [1] In
fact, it's the first words, or incipit, of the text.

[1]  http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0133

-Aris

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 4:41 PM ATMunn  wrote:

> I tried translating the text at the top of this report. Turns out,
> unless google translate is broken, it wasn't meant to be translated,
> it's gibberish. (unless the language isn't supposed to be Greek?)
>
> On 6/12/2018 5:40 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> 
> >
> >
> Registrar's Weekly Report
> >
> 
> >
> >  Date of last report: 03 Jun 2018 Date of this report: 12 Jun 2018
> > (all times UTC)
> >
> > (μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ)
> >
> > Recent Events (recent events section not ratifying)
> >
> > 08-May-18 12:50:50   Registrar initiates zombie auction for Telnaior,
> > 天火狐 20-May-18 19:49:44   G. flips Telnaior's master switch to G.
> > (auction). 21-May-18 05:37:32   Corona flips 天火狐's master switch to
> > Corona (auction). 24-May-18 21:46:42   twg registers.  Welcome, twg!
> > 25-May-18 23:31:10   Publius Scribonius Scholasticus sets eir master
> > switch to emself.
> >
> > (time of last report)
> >
> >
> > Players (20) (by Rule 869, Persons with 'Registered' Citizenship,
> > z=zombie)
> >
> > Player   Contact
> > Registered --   ---
> > -- Aris thoughtsoflifeandlight17 at gmail.com
> > 13 Sep 16 Gaelan   gbs at canishe.com
> > 15 May 17 G.   kerim at u.washington.edu
> > 25 Aug 17 Cuddle Beam  cuddlebeam at gmail.com
> > 25 Aug 17 Trigon   reuben.staley at gmail.com
> > 24 Sep 17 Corona   liliumalbum.agora at gmail.com
> > 17 Nov 17 Murphy   emurphy42 at zoho.com
> > 17 Dec 17 VJ Rada  edwardostrange at gmail.com
> > 29 Dec 17 Kenyon   kprater3.14 at gmail.com
> > 27 Feb 18 ATMunn   iamingodsarmy at gmail.com
> > 11 Mar 18 Ouri ouri.poupko at gmail.com
> > 03 Apr 18 twg  me at timon.red
> > 24 May 18 P. Scholasticus [1]  pscriboniusscholasticus at
> > gmail.com[2] 16 Apr 17 z  omd  comexk at gmail.com
> > [3] 03 Feb 11 z  oowen at
> > grimoire.ca 12 Jul 16 z  Quazie
> > quazienomic at gmail.com15 Apr 17 z  nichdel
> > nichdel at gmail.com29 Jun 17 z  pokes
> > pokes at botnoise.org   11 Dec 17 z  天火狐
> > draconicdarkness at gmail.com   06 Nov 16 z  Telnaior
> > jdga at iinet.net.au20 Oct 17
> >
> > [1] In full, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus [2] officially, but
> > technically equivalent p.scribonius.scholasticus at googlemail.com
> > [3] officially, but technically equivalent c.ome.xk at gmail.com
> >
> >
> > Non-default Master Switches (Player:value, self-ratifying)
> >
> > omd  : G. Quazie   : Corona nichdel  : ATMunn o: G. pokes
> > : omd Telnaior : G. 天火狐: Corona
> >
> >
> > Fora (Rule 478, self-ratifying)
> >
> > Type Location  Typical use 
> >   --- Public
> > agora-official at agoranomic.org  official reports Public
> > agora-business at agoranomic.org  other business Discussion
> > agora-discussion at agoranomic.orgdiscussion Discussion
> > irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/##nomic
>    discussion Public   agora
> > at listserver.tue.nlbackup
> >
> > Subscribe or unsubscribe from main lists:
> > http://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
> >
> > Subscribe or unsubscribe from tue.nl backup list:
> > http://listserver.tue.nl/mailman/listinfo/agora
> >
> > The IRC channel does not require subscription; set your IRC client
> > to server irc.freenode.net, port 6667, channel ##nomic, and whatever
> > nickname you like.
> >
> >
> > Writs of FAGE (Rule 1789) PlayerDate --
> >  Kelly 17 Sep 95 Andre 13 Feb 99 BobTHJ
> > 16 Jan 08 P1 5 Nov 08 P2 5 Nov 08 P3
> > 6 Nov 08 G.29 Jun 17
> >
> >
> > Watchers (4)
> >
> > The list of Watchers is not governed by the rules, but is
> > traditionally maintained in the Registrar's Report.  If you'd like
> > to be listed as a Watcher or removed from the list, feel free to
> > email the fora or the Registrar directly.
> >
> > Watchers confirmed as of May 2017:
> >
> > Nickname  Contact   --- Ørjan
> > oerjan at nvg.ntnu.no
> >
> > Watchers confirmed as of May 2013:
> >
> > Nickname  Contact   --- Dave
> > davidnicol at gmail.com Phlogistique  noe.rubinstein at
> > gmail.com Steve zardoz37 at 

DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Weekly Report

[ATMunn]

I tried translating the text at the top of this report. Turns out,
unless google translate is broken, it wasn't meant to be translated,
it's gibberish. (unless the language isn't supposed to be Greek?)

On 6/12/2018 5:40 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:







Registrar's Weekly Report



 Date of last report: 03 Jun 2018 Date of this report: 12 Jun 2018 
(all times UTC)


(μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ)

Recent Events (recent events section not ratifying)

08-May-18 12:50:50   Registrar initiates zombie auction for Telnaior,
天火狐 20-May-18 19:49:44   G. flips Telnaior's master switch to G.
(auction). 21-May-18 05:37:32   Corona flips 天火狐's master switch to
Corona (auction). 24-May-18 21:46:42   twg registers.  Welcome, twg! 
25-May-18 23:31:10   Publius Scribonius Scholasticus sets eir master

switch to emself.

(time of last report)


Players (20) (by Rule 869, Persons with 'Registered' Citizenship,
z=zombie)

Player   Contact
Registered --   ---
-- Aris thoughtsoflifeandlight17 at gmail.com
13 Sep 16 Gaelan   gbs at canishe.com
15 May 17 G.   kerim at u.washington.edu
25 Aug 17 Cuddle Beam  cuddlebeam at gmail.com
25 Aug 17 Trigon   reuben.staley at gmail.com
24 Sep 17 Corona   liliumalbum.agora at gmail.com
17 Nov 17 Murphy   emurphy42 at zoho.com
17 Dec 17 VJ Rada  edwardostrange at gmail.com
29 Dec 17 Kenyon   kprater3.14 at gmail.com
27 Feb 18 ATMunn   iamingodsarmy at gmail.com
11 Mar 18 Ouri ouri.poupko at gmail.com
03 Apr 18 twg  me at timon.red
24 May 18 P. Scholasticus [1]  pscriboniusscholasticus at
gmail.com[2] 16 Apr 17 z  omd  comexk at gmail.com
[3] 03 Feb 11 z  oowen at
grimoire.ca 12 Jul 16 z  Quazie
quazienomic at gmail.com15 Apr 17 z  nichdel
nichdel at gmail.com29 Jun 17 z  pokes
pokes at botnoise.org   11 Dec 17 z  天火狐
draconicdarkness at gmail.com   06 Nov 16 z  Telnaior
jdga at iinet.net.au20 Oct 17

[1] In full, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus [2] officially, but
technically equivalent p.scribonius.scholasticus at googlemail.com 
[3] officially, but technically equivalent c.ome.xk at gmail.com



Non-default Master Switches (Player:value, self-ratifying)

omd  : G. Quazie   : Corona nichdel  : ATMunn o: G. pokes
: omd Telnaior : G. 天火狐: Corona


Fora (Rule 478, self-ratifying)

Type Location  Typical use 
  --- Public
agora-official at agoranomic.org  official reports Public
agora-business at agoranomic.org  other business Discussion
agora-discussion at agoranomic.orgdiscussion Discussion
irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/##nomic   discussion Public   agora
at listserver.tue.nlbackup

Subscribe or unsubscribe from main lists: 
http://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo


Subscribe or unsubscribe from tue.nl backup list: 
http://listserver.tue.nl/mailman/listinfo/agora


The IRC channel does not require subscription; set your IRC client
to server irc.freenode.net, port 6667, channel ##nomic, and whatever 
nickname you like.



Writs of FAGE (Rule 1789) PlayerDate --
 Kelly 17 Sep 95 Andre 13 Feb 99 BobTHJ
16 Jan 08 P1 5 Nov 08 P2 5 Nov 08 P3
6 Nov 08 G.29 Jun 17


Watchers (4)

The list of Watchers is not governed by the rules, but is 
traditionally maintained in the Registrar's Report.  If you'd like

to be listed as a Watcher or removed from the list, feel free to
email the fora or the Registrar directly.

Watchers confirmed as of May 2017:

Nickname  Contact   --- Ørjan
oerjan at nvg.ntnu.no

Watchers confirmed as of May 2013:

Nickname  Contact   --- Dave
davidnicol at gmail.com Phlogistique  noe.rubinstein at
gmail.com Steve zardoz37 at gmail.com

Re: DIS: Regarding the rapid proprietization of land

[Reuben Staley]

Hm, those are some good ideas. Perhaps we should also repeal Arcadian
Action 5 to encourage using the more volatile Alternating Land Types
system. Maybe we need to also add more Arcadian Actions that flip the ALT
switch.

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 12:44 Corona  wrote:

> ​Well, the thing that comes to mind first is to incentivize small groups,
> which would in general make the board more lively, e.g. by​:
>
> -movement (to same color would cost 2 apples, to different 1 apple)
> -making facilities produce less for every other facility in the same-color
> "group" (or it could be a bonus to isolated facilities, same thing)
> -making the (immune to transfiguration) central square completely gray, so
> that it doesn't support/encourage the 2 large groups
>
>
> ~Corona
>
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:10 PM, Reuben Staley 
> wrote:
>
> > Excuse me, but have you seen how big the groups of contiguous land units
> > are? Capturing any unit except ATMunn's lone white unit would be nearly
> > impossible. And it's not like it's gonna stop being that way any time
> soon.
> > It only costs one more apple to make a land unit that you can choose the
> > color of than one that you can't. I can only forsee these groups getting
> > bigger and bigger and harder to capture as a result. Your idea is nice,
> but
> > it ignores a larger problem.
> >
> >
> > On 06/12/2018 12:03 PM, Corona wrote:
> >
> >> Well, what would you think about reviving my suggestion to incentivize
> >> "capturing" land units with a healthy financial reward?
> >>
> >> ~Corona
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 7:55 PM, Reuben Staley  >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> In compliance with rule 2004, I run land auctions (almost) every Agoran
> >>> Week. However, I am not to run them if the number of Units of Private
> >>> Land
> >>> is less than one half the total number of Units of Land. And with five
> >>> land
> >>> units auctioned off each week, we are rapidly approaching that ratio.
> >>> This
> >>> is obviously a problem, since once we reach it, there will be no more
> >>> land
> >>> auctions, and with barely any rules in place to ensure a continuous
> >>> recycling of land units back to Agora, the ownership of land will
> >>> basically
> >>> freeze.
> >>>
> >>> I believe the way to fix this lies in a system that automatically
> >>> transfers the least useful LUs from their owners back to Agora every
> week
> >>> if the number of Units of Private Land is greater than one half the
> total
> >>> number of Units of Land. This would keep the number of Units of Private
> >>> Land at a nice equilibrium, hovering around one half ownership.
> >>>
> >>> The problem is that I have no idea how such a system would choose land
> >>> units to give back to Agora. Okay, I actually have one idea, but it
> would
> >>> require lots of calculation. For the sake of discussion, I'll describe
> it
> >>> here.
> >>>
> >>> Each Unit has a land value which is calculated each week based on a
> >>> number
> >>> of factors. The value would increase for each level the facility build
> on
> >>> it had, for each adjacent land unit of the same color, etc.. The value
> >>> would decrease if the person that owned it was no longer a player, or
> if
> >>> no
> >>> change had occured for some set time. Each unit with a value of
> whatever
> >>> the minimum of the set of land unit values is, is transferred to Agora
> >>> for
> >>> auctioning.
> >>>
> >>> Like I said, that would be a crazy amount of calculation, so I'm not
> sure
> >>> how practical it really is.
> >>>
> >>> Please leave suggestions. We need to fix this before we reach that one
> >>> half mark.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Trigon
> >>>
> >>>
> > --
> > Trigon
> >
>

Re: DIS: Regarding the rapid proprietization of land

[Corona]

​Well, the thing that comes to mind first is to incentivize small groups,
which would in general make the board more lively, e.g. by​:

-movement (to same color would cost 2 apples, to different 1 apple)
-making facilities produce less for every other facility in the same-color
"group" (or it could be a bonus to isolated facilities, same thing)
-making the (immune to transfiguration) central square completely gray, so
that it doesn't support/encourage the 2 large groups


~Corona

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:10 PM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> Excuse me, but have you seen how big the groups of contiguous land units
> are? Capturing any unit except ATMunn's lone white unit would be nearly
> impossible. And it's not like it's gonna stop being that way any time soon.
> It only costs one more apple to make a land unit that you can choose the
> color of than one that you can't. I can only forsee these groups getting
> bigger and bigger and harder to capture as a result. Your idea is nice, but
> it ignores a larger problem.
>
>
> On 06/12/2018 12:03 PM, Corona wrote:
>
>> Well, what would you think about reviving my suggestion to incentivize
>> "capturing" land units with a healthy financial reward?
>>
>> ~Corona
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 7:55 PM, Reuben Staley 
>> wrote:
>>
>> In compliance with rule 2004, I run land auctions (almost) every Agoran
>>> Week. However, I am not to run them if the number of Units of Private
>>> Land
>>> is less than one half the total number of Units of Land. And with five
>>> land
>>> units auctioned off each week, we are rapidly approaching that ratio.
>>> This
>>> is obviously a problem, since once we reach it, there will be no more
>>> land
>>> auctions, and with barely any rules in place to ensure a continuous
>>> recycling of land units back to Agora, the ownership of land will
>>> basically
>>> freeze.
>>>
>>> I believe the way to fix this lies in a system that automatically
>>> transfers the least useful LUs from their owners back to Agora every week
>>> if the number of Units of Private Land is greater than one half the total
>>> number of Units of Land. This would keep the number of Units of Private
>>> Land at a nice equilibrium, hovering around one half ownership.
>>>
>>> The problem is that I have no idea how such a system would choose land
>>> units to give back to Agora. Okay, I actually have one idea, but it would
>>> require lots of calculation. For the sake of discussion, I'll describe it
>>> here.
>>>
>>> Each Unit has a land value which is calculated each week based on a
>>> number
>>> of factors. The value would increase for each level the facility build on
>>> it had, for each adjacent land unit of the same color, etc.. The value
>>> would decrease if the person that owned it was no longer a player, or if
>>> no
>>> change had occured for some set time. Each unit with a value of whatever
>>> the minimum of the set of land unit values is, is transferred to Agora
>>> for
>>> auctioning.
>>>
>>> Like I said, that would be a crazy amount of calculation, so I'm not sure
>>> how practical it really is.
>>>
>>> Please leave suggestions. We need to fix this before we reach that one
>>> half mark.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Trigon
>>>
>>>
> --
> Trigon
>

Re: DIS: Regarding the rapid proprietization of land

[Corona]

It's off-topic, but it just occurred to me that it'd be nice if you
(Trigon) could, in the interactive Cartographor report, make some little
ownership flags or w/e display over the land units - clicking on them one
by one to find out who owns what is a little awkward.

~Corona

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:27 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> What's the reason for the 50/50 rule in the first place?  It seems like
> the current players want plots/little empires whatever, and with upkeep
> fees keeping things undeveloped is occasionally useful.
>
> I would personally either change the ratio to allow more ownership, or
> maybe just plain old increase the map size (if this is Go, is our end-goal
> 19x19?)
>
> Things are Just Getting Going (active auctions, production) and tweaking
> by adding a lot of new process/reclamation (as opposed to minor ratio
> adjustments or land expansions) seems like a recipe for things to slow
> up again while we wait for changes to go through and be debugged etc. -
> uncertainty decreases investment.
>
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> > In compliance with rule 2004, I run land auctions (almost) every Agoran
> Week.
> > However, I am not to run them if the number of Units of Private Land is
> less
> > than one half the total number of Units of Land. And with five land units
> > auctioned off each week, we are rapidly approaching that ratio. This is
> > obviously a problem, since once we reach it, there will be no more land
> > auctions, and with barely any rules in place to ensure a continuous
> recycling
> > of land units back to Agora, the ownership of land will basically freeze.
> >
> > I believe the way to fix this lies in a system that automatically
> transfers
> > the least useful LUs from their owners back to Agora every week if the
> number
> > of Units of Private Land is greater than one half the total number of
> Units of
> > Land. This would keep the number of Units of Private Land at a nice
> > equilibrium, hovering around one half ownership.
> >
> > The problem is that I have no idea how such a system would choose land
> units
> > to give back to Agora. Okay, I actually have one idea, but it would
> require
> > lots of calculation. For the sake of discussion, I'll describe it here.
> >
> > Each Unit has a land value which is calculated each week based on a
> number of
> > factors. The value would increase for each level the facility build on
> it had,
> > for each adjacent land unit of the same color, etc.. The value would
> decrease
> > if the person that owned it was no longer a player, or if no change had
> > occured for some set time. Each unit with a value of whatever the
> minimum of
> > the set of land unit values is, is transferred to Agora for auctioning.
> >
> > Like I said, that would be a crazy amount of calculation, so I'm not
> sure how
> > practical it really is.
> >
> > Please leave suggestions. We need to fix this before we reach that one
> half
> > mark.
> >
> > --
> > Trigon
> >
>
>

Re: DIS: Regarding the rapid proprietization of land

[Kerim Aydin]

What's the reason for the 50/50 rule in the first place?  It seems like
the current players want plots/little empires whatever, and with upkeep
fees keeping things undeveloped is occasionally useful.

I would personally either change the ratio to allow more ownership, or
maybe just plain old increase the map size (if this is Go, is our end-goal
19x19?)

Things are Just Getting Going (active auctions, production) and tweaking
by adding a lot of new process/reclamation (as opposed to minor ratio
adjustments or land expansions) seems like a recipe for things to slow
up again while we wait for changes to go through and be debugged etc. -
uncertainty decreases investment.

On Tue, 12 Jun 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> In compliance with rule 2004, I run land auctions (almost) every Agoran Week.
> However, I am not to run them if the number of Units of Private Land is less
> than one half the total number of Units of Land. And with five land units
> auctioned off each week, we are rapidly approaching that ratio. This is
> obviously a problem, since once we reach it, there will be no more land
> auctions, and with barely any rules in place to ensure a continuous recycling
> of land units back to Agora, the ownership of land will basically freeze.
> 
> I believe the way to fix this lies in a system that automatically transfers
> the least useful LUs from their owners back to Agora every week if the number
> of Units of Private Land is greater than one half the total number of Units of
> Land. This would keep the number of Units of Private Land at a nice
> equilibrium, hovering around one half ownership.
> 
> The problem is that I have no idea how such a system would choose land units
> to give back to Agora. Okay, I actually have one idea, but it would require
> lots of calculation. For the sake of discussion, I'll describe it here.
> 
> Each Unit has a land value which is calculated each week based on a number of
> factors. The value would increase for each level the facility build on it had,
> for each adjacent land unit of the same color, etc.. The value would decrease
> if the person that owned it was no longer a player, or if no change had
> occured for some set time. Each unit with a value of whatever the minimum of
> the set of land unit values is, is transferred to Agora for auctioning.
> 
> Like I said, that would be a crazy amount of calculation, so I'm not sure how
> practical it really is.
> 
> Please leave suggestions. We need to fix this before we reach that one half
> mark.
> 
> -- 
> Trigon
>

Re: DIS: Regarding the rapid proprietization of land

[Reuben Staley]

Excuse me, but have you seen how big the groups of contiguous land units 
are? Capturing any unit except ATMunn's lone white unit would be nearly 
impossible. And it's not like it's gonna stop being that way any time 
soon. It only costs one more apple to make a land unit that you can 
choose the color of than one that you can't. I can only forsee these 
groups getting bigger and bigger and harder to capture as a result. Your 
idea is nice, but it ignores a larger problem.


On 06/12/2018 12:03 PM, Corona wrote:

Well, what would you think about reviving my suggestion to incentivize
"capturing" land units with a healthy financial reward?

~Corona

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 7:55 PM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:


In compliance with rule 2004, I run land auctions (almost) every Agoran
Week. However, I am not to run them if the number of Units of Private Land
is less than one half the total number of Units of Land. And with five land
units auctioned off each week, we are rapidly approaching that ratio. This
is obviously a problem, since once we reach it, there will be no more land
auctions, and with barely any rules in place to ensure a continuous
recycling of land units back to Agora, the ownership of land will basically
freeze.

I believe the way to fix this lies in a system that automatically
transfers the least useful LUs from their owners back to Agora every week
if the number of Units of Private Land is greater than one half the total
number of Units of Land. This would keep the number of Units of Private
Land at a nice equilibrium, hovering around one half ownership.

The problem is that I have no idea how such a system would choose land
units to give back to Agora. Okay, I actually have one idea, but it would
require lots of calculation. For the sake of discussion, I'll describe it
here.

Each Unit has a land value which is calculated each week based on a number
of factors. The value would increase for each level the facility build on
it had, for each adjacent land unit of the same color, etc.. The value
would decrease if the person that owned it was no longer a player, or if no
change had occured for some set time. Each unit with a value of whatever
the minimum of the set of land unit values is, is transferred to Agora for
auctioning.

Like I said, that would be a crazy amount of calculation, so I'm not sure
how practical it really is.

Please leave suggestions. We need to fix this before we reach that one
half mark.

--
Trigon



--
Trigon

Re: DIS: Regarding the rapid proprietization of land

[Corona]

Well, what would you think about reviving my suggestion to incentivize
"capturing" land units with a healthy financial reward?

~Corona

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 7:55 PM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> In compliance with rule 2004, I run land auctions (almost) every Agoran
> Week. However, I am not to run them if the number of Units of Private Land
> is less than one half the total number of Units of Land. And with five land
> units auctioned off each week, we are rapidly approaching that ratio. This
> is obviously a problem, since once we reach it, there will be no more land
> auctions, and with barely any rules in place to ensure a continuous
> recycling of land units back to Agora, the ownership of land will basically
> freeze.
>
> I believe the way to fix this lies in a system that automatically
> transfers the least useful LUs from their owners back to Agora every week
> if the number of Units of Private Land is greater than one half the total
> number of Units of Land. This would keep the number of Units of Private
> Land at a nice equilibrium, hovering around one half ownership.
>
> The problem is that I have no idea how such a system would choose land
> units to give back to Agora. Okay, I actually have one idea, but it would
> require lots of calculation. For the sake of discussion, I'll describe it
> here.
>
> Each Unit has a land value which is calculated each week based on a number
> of factors. The value would increase for each level the facility build on
> it had, for each adjacent land unit of the same color, etc.. The value
> would decrease if the person that owned it was no longer a player, or if no
> change had occured for some set time. Each unit with a value of whatever
> the minimum of the set of land unit values is, is transferred to Agora for
> auctioning.
>
> Like I said, that would be a crazy amount of calculation, so I'm not sure
> how practical it really is.
>
> Please leave suggestions. We need to fix this before we reach that one
> half mark.
>
> --
> Trigon
>

DIS: Regarding the rapid proprietization of land

[Reuben Staley]

In compliance with rule 2004, I run land auctions (almost) every Agoran 
Week. However, I am not to run them if the number of Units of Private 
Land is less than one half the total number of Units of Land. And with 
five land units auctioned off each week, we are rapidly approaching that 
ratio. This is obviously a problem, since once we reach it, there will 
be no more land auctions, and with barely any rules in place to ensure a 
continuous recycling of land units back to Agora, the ownership of land 
will basically freeze.


I believe the way to fix this lies in a system that automatically 
transfers the least useful LUs from their owners back to Agora every 
week if the number of Units of Private Land is greater than one half the 
total number of Units of Land. This would keep the number of Units of 
Private Land at a nice equilibrium, hovering around one half ownership.


The problem is that I have no idea how such a system would choose land 
units to give back to Agora. Okay, I actually have one idea, but it 
would require lots of calculation. For the sake of discussion, I'll 
describe it here.


Each Unit has a land value which is calculated each week based on a 
number of factors. The value would increase for each level the facility 
build on it had, for each adjacent land unit of the same color, etc.. 
The value would decrease if the person that owned it was no longer a 
player, or if no change had occured for some set time. Each unit with a 
value of whatever the minimum of the set of land unit values is, is 
transferred to Agora for auctioning.


Like I said, that would be a crazy amount of calculation, so I'm not 
sure how practical it really is.


Please leave suggestions. We need to fix this before we reach that one 
half mark.


--
Trigon

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Got some new toys.

[ATMunn]

Never!

On 6/12/2018 12:32 PM, Benjamin Schultz wrote:

Stop it, stop it!  This sketch is too silly!

OscarMeyr

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:


I actually knew that already, so I'm not sure what I was thinking when I
wrote that. Thanks for the correction, though.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 12, 2018 12:35 PM, Corona  wrote:


​​

FYI: The Spivak pronoun nominative is "e", not "ey" (reflecting "he" and

"she"), though you can, of course, use any pronouns you want.

I favor the CFJ called by V.J. Rada in this thread.

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:


I become a party to the contract "Sillyness by contract".

I act on behalf of V.J. Rada to perform the following actions: {

Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (0, -1).

Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (-1, -1).

Transfer all liquid assets from the mine at (-1, -1) to V.J. Rada.

Transfer 3 stone and 2 ore from V.J. Rada to Trigon.

}

This meets the requirement of being extremely silly because it is only

necessary due to a minor grammatical error on Trigon's part, and it

meets


the requirement of not harming V.J. Rada's standing in the game

significantly because eir only loss from these actions is 2 apples

(which


ey already have plenty of) and the right to transfer assets from a

preserved facility before next Friday (which ey already have enough

assets


not to have much need of).

-twg

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 12, 2018 10:31 AM, Ned Strange edwardostra...@gmail.com wrote:


it doesn't, do it again

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Reuben Staley

reuben.sta...@gmail.com


wrote:


Could you guys let me do one thing in this game without pointing

out


how I



messed up?

Okay, okay. Here's a flimsy argument for why this works:

I could only possibly transfer items to myself from a facility on a

land



unit I'm on. Therefore, "that unit" should mean "the unit I'm on"

since


that's the only option for transferring. Therefore, the attempt

succeeds.



On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 04:13 Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:


On June 12, 2018 8:25 AM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com

wrote:



I destroy a coin to make (-2, -1) black and switch the

alternating


type.



I transfer the mine on that unit's resources to myself.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this fails, because (-2,

-1)


doesn't have a mine on it, and wasn't where you were standing

anyway. I



think you meant to reference the mine at (-1, -1), but I can't

come


up with



a parsing where "that unit" refers to anything other than (-2,

-1).


-twg


--

 From V.J. Rada


--

~Corona

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Got some new toys.

[Benjamin Schultz]

Stop it, stop it!  This sketch is too silly!

   OscarMeyr

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:

> I actually knew that already, so I'm not sure what I was thinking when I
> wrote that. Thanks for the correction, though.
>
> -twg
> ​​
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On June 12, 2018 12:35 PM, Corona  wrote:
>
> > ​​
> >
> > FYI: The Spivak pronoun nominative is "e", not "ey" (reflecting "he" and
> >
> > "she"), though you can, of course, use any pronouns you want.
> >
> > I favor the CFJ called by V.J. Rada in this thread.
> >
> > On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> >
> > > I become a party to the contract "Sillyness by contract".
> > >
> > > I act on behalf of V.J. Rada to perform the following actions: {
> > >
> > > Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (0, -1).
> > >
> > > Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (-1, -1).
> > >
> > > Transfer all liquid assets from the mine at (-1, -1) to V.J. Rada.
> > >
> > > Transfer 3 stone and 2 ore from V.J. Rada to Trigon.
> > >
> > > }
> > >
> > > This meets the requirement of being extremely silly because it is only
> > >
> > > necessary due to a minor grammatical error on Trigon's part, and it
> meets
> > >
> > > the requirement of not harming V.J. Rada's standing in the game
> > >
> > > significantly because eir only loss from these actions is 2 apples
> (which
> > >
> > > ey already have plenty of) and the right to transfer assets from a
> > >
> > > preserved facility before next Friday (which ey already have enough
> assets
> > >
> > > not to have much need of).
> > >
> > > -twg
> > >
> > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > >
> > > On June 12, 2018 10:31 AM, Ned Strange edwardostra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > it doesn't, do it again
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Reuben Staley
> reuben.sta...@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Could you guys let me do one thing in this game without pointing
> out
> > > > >
> > > > > how I
> > > >
> > > > > messed up?
> > > > >
> > > > > Okay, okay. Here's a flimsy argument for why this works:
> > > > >
> > > > > I could only possibly transfer items to myself from a facility on a
> > > > >
> > > > > land
> > > >
> > > > > unit I'm on. Therefore, "that unit" should mean "the unit I'm on"
> since
> > > > >
> > > > > that's the only option for transferring. Therefore, the attempt
> > > > >
> > > > > succeeds.
> > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 04:13 Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On June 12, 2018 8:25 AM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > I destroy a coin to make (-2, -1) black and switch the
> alternating
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > type.
> > > >
> > > > > > > I transfer the mine on that unit's resources to myself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this fails, because (-2,
> -1)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > doesn't have a mine on it, and wasn't where you were standing
> > > > > >
> > > > > > anyway. I
> > > >
> > > > > > think you meant to reference the mine at (-1, -1), but I can't
> come
> > > > > >
> > > > > > up with
> > > >
> > > > > > a parsing where "that unit" refers to anything other than (-2,
> -1).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -twg
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > From V.J. Rada
> >
> > --
> >
> > ~Corona
>
>
>

Re: DIS: trades

[Corona]

I support this too.

~Corona

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 5:04 PM, ATMunn  wrote:

> I like this idea and will use it if it gets enacted. +1
>
>
> On 6/12/2018 2:42 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Proto:  Trades.
>>
>> [this might be a type of contract or something but it seems nice like
>> a standalone too]
>>
>> A player (the seller) CAN create a Trade Offer by announcement,
>> specifying a set of assets e owns (the tender) and an action
>> (the exchange) that e wants in trade (e.g. a transfer of assets
>> to emself).  E may optionally specify a set of players other
>> than the seller eligible to make the exchange (buyers).  If e
>> does not specify the default buyers are all players other than
>> the seller.
>>
>> A Trade Offer is valid until:
>>   (a) a buyer makes the exchange for that Trade Offer;
>>   (b) the seller withdraws the offer; or
>>   (c) one week has passed.
>>
>> A buyer makes the exchange on a valid Trade Offer by
>> announcement, citing the specific offer as the reason for
>> performing the exchange action, provided that (1) the buyer
>> CAN otherwise perform the exchange action by announcement;
>>(2) the seller CAN transfer the tender to the buyer by
>> announcement.
>>
>> When the exchange is made, that buyer performs the exchange
>> action,
>> and immediately afterwards the tender is transferred from the
>> seller to the buyer.  If either portion of the trade fails,
>> both fail (no exchange action is performed and no tender is
>> transferred).
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: DIS: holy crap 80+ messages

[ATMunn]

ok i finished

On 6/12/2018 10:36 AM, ATMunn wrote:

So I just woke up this morning to find more than 80 messages in my Agora
folder. I'm going to go through them from top to bottom, so if I respond
to something in a way that doesn't make sense in the context of other
messages, that's why.

Re: DIS: trades

[ATMunn]

I like this idea and will use it if it gets enacted. +1

On 6/12/2018 2:42 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote:




Proto:  Trades.

[this might be a type of contract or something but it seems nice like
a standalone too]

A player (the seller) CAN create a Trade Offer by announcement,
specifying a set of assets e owns (the tender) and an action
(the exchange) that e wants in trade (e.g. a transfer of assets
to emself).  E may optionally specify a set of players other
than the seller eligible to make the exchange (buyers).  If e
does not specify the default buyers are all players other than
the seller.

A Trade Offer is valid until:
  (a) a buyer makes the exchange for that Trade Offer;
  (b) the seller withdraws the offer; or
  (c) one week has passed.

A buyer makes the exchange on a valid Trade Offer by
announcement, citing the specific offer as the reason for
performing the exchange action, provided that (1) the buyer
CAN otherwise perform the exchange action by announcement;
   (2) the seller CAN transfer the tender to the buyer by announcement.

When the exchange is made, that buyer performs the exchange action,
and immediately afterwards the tender is transferred from the
seller to the buyer.  If either portion of the trade fails,
both fail (no exchange action is performed and no tender is
transferred).

  

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Technically Notary] Rubberstamp Repeal

[ATMunn]

I think part of the reason that they're not getting much use is just 
that nobody has any good ideas of what to do with them. I for one think 
contracts are great, and would make more if I had a good idea.


On 6/11/2018 9:13 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:

I oppose this, and object. I'm obviously biased, because I wrote the
relevant system. If your problem with it is that it's over-complicated and
badly implemented, I'd agree with you. That has a tendency to happen with
any large game system I write. I get so buried in thinking about everything
that could happen that I tend to make the system I'm building more
complicated than it needs to be. It doesn't help, of course, that in Agora
everything has a large amount of committee work in its design. People have
a tendency to see even more problems that I didn't see, and fixing
everything and addressing everyone's concerns always seems to lead to more
bloat. So someone wants to reform and simplify this system, they have my
full support and assistance. I can even try to write something up myself,
if people enumerate the specific problems they have with the system,
although I'm not sure I'm really the right person for the job.

That all being said, I cannot support a repeal (or at any rate one without
a replacement). Contracts need to be made simpler and more comfortable so
that people actually use them. I'd like to know what problems people have
with the current system, so that can be fixed. However, in deciding whether
to repeal this, you have to understand my motivation for writing it in the
first place. Contracts replaced a lot of dedicated systems for doing
different things. Specifically, they replaced Organizations, which were
even less usable, and Agencies, which only allowed acting on behalf. At the
time, there was a serious proposal to allow people to write standalone
backing documents. Contracts replaced all of that with one consolidated
flexible system, the purpose of which was basically to allow people to add
personal extensions to the ruleset. You can really do almost anything with
them. I thought when I wrote this system that we needed a capability to
allow people to create things for players without writing them into the
ruleset, and I still think so today. Now, for some reason that I still have
trouble understanding (I get that they're over complicated, but that
doesn't directly make them unusable) people don't seem to do that with them
much. However, I'm concerned about seeing a proliferation of subsystems
and/or a lack of flexibility after their repeal. For that reason, I think
that they should be reformed, not flat out repealed.

-Aris

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 5:34 PM Ned Strange 
wrote:


Will this work? No. But I hate complicated systems that nobody uses.
And this one is incomprehensible and not what the game is really about
anymore. So I'm making the following point.

I create and intend to Rubberstamp in my capcity as Notary without 3
objections the following proposal.

Title: Getting rid of my own job
AI: 3
Text: Repeal rules 2524, 2526, 2520, 2525, 2522, 2523, 2521 and 2527.
 From rule 2166 "Assets", delete the following text
"An asset or class of assets is private, rather than public, if its
backing document is a contract."
and delete the following text
"or (d) contract"
and delete the following text
" A contract's text can specify whether or not that contract is

   willing to receive assets or a class of assets. Generally, a
   contract CANNOT be given assets it is unwilling to receive. If the
   contract is silent on the matter, or if its willingness is
   indeterminate or the subject of a inextricable conditional, the
   procedure to determine its willingness is as follows:

 1. If the contract appears to anticipate being given assets,
other than for sustenance (e.g. by authorizing parties to
spend the contract's assets), then the contract is willing to
receive all assets.

 2. Otherwise, it is unwilling to receive all assets.

   The previous paragraph (including the list) notwithstanding, a
   contract CAN be given 1 unit of Agora’s official currency a month
   for its sustenance payment, so long as it never has more than 1
   unit of Agora’s official currency at a time."

and delete the text
" Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, a contract
  CANNOT oblige a person who isn't a member to record its internal
   state, nor is the default recordkeepor responsible for tracking a
   contract's internal state."

In rule 2425 "Auctions", delete the text "or contract"

In rule 2547 "The Auctioneer", delete the text "or contracts" and
delete the last sentence of the first paragraph and delete the last
paragraph.

In rule 2548 "The Auction Announcer" delete the text "or contract" and
the last sentence.

In rule 2549 "Auction Initiation", delete all instances of the text
"or contract"

In rule 2550 "Bidding", replace the last comma with a full 

Re: DIS: Draft: Minimalist Contracts v1

[ATMunn]

I do quite like the simplicity of this. I especially like that contracts 
now must include at least 2 people, so there's no 
quick-contract-to-get-around-something allowed. This also makes 
contracts seem more like real contracts.


On 6/11/2018 10:42 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:

Okay, here's a contracts system based on the model proposed by G. I
welcome any clean-up suggestions or other improvements, although I
think I've kept it fairly minimal, with the exception of the
provisions in the assets rule, which will remain problematic until it
sees its own reform.

-Aris
---

Title: Minimalist Contracts v1
Adoption index: 2.5
Author: Aris
Co-authors: G., V.J. Rada

[This proposal saves allowing contracts to control assets until we decide
to allow them to be persons, which is its own can of worms.]

Renact Rule 1742, "Contracts", at power 2.5, with the following text:

   Any group of two or more consenting persons (the parties) may
   make an agreement among themselves with the intention that it be
   binding upon them and be governed by the rules. Such an agreement
   is known as a contract. A contract may be modified, including
   by changing the set of parties, by agreement between all existing
   parties. A contract may also terminate by agreement between all
   parties. A contract automatically terminates if the number of
   parties to it falls below two. For the purposes of this rule,
   agreement includes both consent and agreement specified by
   contract.

   Parties to a contract governed by the rules SHALL act in
   accordance with that contract. This obligation is not impaired
   by contradiction between the contract and any other contract, or
   between the contract and the rules.

   A contract may act as a backing document, as permitted by other
   rules. A party to a contract may act on behalf of another party
   to it as allowed in the contract.

[Comments on whether the backing document bit belongs here would be
appreciated.]

[The portion below may be messy, but that's existing assets rule
messiness, which is also my fault and also needs fixing.]

If Rule 2166, "Assets", does not include the word "contract": {
   In Rule 2166, change the sentence containing the text "(hereafter
   its backing document)" to read

 "An asset is an entity defined as such by a (a) rule, (b)
 authorized regulation, (c) group of rules and/or authorized
 regulations (but if such regulations modify a preexisting asset
 class defined by a rule or another title of regulations, they must
 be authorized specifically to do so by their parent rule), or (d)
 contract (hereafter its backing document), and existing solely
 because its backing document defines its existence."

   In Rule 2166, append the paragraph

 "An asset or class of assets is private, rather than public, if its
  backing document is a contract."

   to the end of the rule.
}

Re: BUS: Fw: DIS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land auctions for June week 1

[ATMunn]

An accepted way to correct sending to discussion by accident is to
simply reply to your message, sending to the correct list, with "TTttPF"
(This Time to the Public Forum). It is also a custom to say "NttPF" (Not
to the Public Forum) on someone else's message if it was clearly
intended to go to a public forum but was instead sent to discussion.

On 6/12/2018 3:40 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:

Sorry, I keep sending things to Discussion by mistake. I'll get used
to it eventually.

If I do not own the land unit at (+5, 0), I pay 6 coins to Agora to
transfer it to myself.

-twg ​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 12, 2018 7:39 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:


​​

Lovely. I pay 6 coins to Agora to transfer the land unit at (+5, 0)
to myself.

-twg

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 12, 2018 1:00 AM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com
wrote:


I resolve the land auctions as such (yes i know they should have
ended

last week, screw off):

AUCTION 1

Bidder Amount

Trigon 1c.

twg 2c.

G. 5c.

Corona 6c.

G. 8c.

AUCTION 2

Bidder Amount

Trigon 1c.

ATMunn 3c.

G. 3c.

twg 4c.

Corona 5c.

twg 6c.

AUCTION 3

Bidder Amount

Trigon 1c.

ATMunn 3c.

Corona 5c.

AUCTION 4

Bidder Amount

Trigon 1c.

ATMunn 3c.

Murphy 6c.

Corona 7c.

Murphy 8c.

AUCTION 5

Bidder Amount

Trigon 1c.

ATMunn 3c.

Corona 5c.

Murphy 6c.

Wow, this was disappointing.

On 05/31/2018 04:59 PM, Reuben Staley wrote:


There are currently 7 public, unpreserved, non-aether land
units in

existence. 5 land units of my choice are put up for auction.

For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is the

auctioneer, and the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as
such:

AUCTION 1: the white land unit at (+3, -1)

AUCTION 2: the white land unit at (+5,  0)

AUCTION 3: the white land unit at (+6,  0)

AUCTION 4: the black land unit at (+6, +1)

AUCTION 5: the black land unit at (+6, +2)


--

Trigon

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Tailor] The Long Awaited, Much Anticipated, Very Procrastinated Ribbon Bar

[ATMunn]

Ah, I just assumed that CB voted FOR the proposal. I didn't look at any 
discussion threads or whatever.


Also, I'm not sure how I missed the Gray Ribbon thing, lol. Revision 
coming soon (i.e. when I finish reading messages)


On 6/11/2018 8:34 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:



Excellent!

I'm afraid I have to CoE:  CoE:  CuddleBeam does not have a
Black Ribbon.  The only people eligible to earn Black Ribbons in
April 2018 (to my knowledge) were players who voted FOR Proposal 8035.

Also CoE:  Since you awarded the Gray Ribbon "before" the report,
you need to have it in the Report or it will self-ratify away.

On Mon, 11 Jun 2018, ATMunn wrote:

I finally got around to doing the report. Only took me a month. :P Note
that I didn't look through every single message since the last report,
and didn't look through a-o messages at all, so I may have missed some
ribbons. Feel free to CoE.

I award Trigon a Gray Ribbon. (I think everyone is really enjoying
PAoaM, so I wanted to reward Trigon for it.)

I publish the following report:

TAILOR'S RIBBON REPORT
--

Date of this report: 2017-06-11
Date of last report: 2017-02-12

Festivity: 0

Players' ribbon holdings:

ROGCBMUVIPLWKAT
Aris   ROG  MUV PT
ATMunn KA
Corona K
Cuddle Beam   C M V   WK
G. ROGCBMUVIPLWKAT
GaelanC MUV A
Kenyon
MurphyCB UV A
nichdel OGCBMUV P W AT
o  ROG BMUV   WKAT
omd   C  UVKA
Ouri
pokes  K
Publius [1]   C MUV
Quazie  O C MUVKA
Telnaior   KA
Trigon  A
twg
Josh T. [3]  UV A
V.J. Rada   MU   LWK

Non-players' ribbon holdings:

ROGCBMUVIPLWKAT
ais523 ROGCBMUV PLWKAT
Alexis ROGCBMUVIP WKA
aranea ROGCBM V PLW A
babelian U
Bayushi MU
BedeM W
Chuck   M
grokO  BMUV
Ienpw IIIUV
K W
Ørjan   M V
Roujo V
Sprocklem   MUV   W A
stadjer   W
Tanner Swett  C M
Tekneek M
Tiger  BM
tmanthe2nd   UV
VeggiekeksC  UV
Yally   M
Zachary W [2]U

[1] Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
[2] Zachary Watterson
[3] 天火狐

The rules for Ribbons are set out in rule 2438. A quick guide to how
most Ribbons work: various events cause you to "earn" a Ribbon; you
then "qualify for" that Ribbon for 7 days. While you qualify for a
Ribbon (and do not already own that Ribbon, and have not owned it
recently), any player can "award" you that Ribbon. A few Ribbons
work differently; see rule 2438 for details.

Approximate summary of how each type of Ribbon can be gained:
Red  Author an adopted proposal that amends a Power-3+ rule
Orange   Author a proposal that is unanimously adopted
GreenHold an elected office for 30 days with no late duties
Cyan Deputise for an office
Blue Judge a CFJ without violating time limits to do so
Magenta  Acknowldge Agora's Birthday
Ultraviolet  Become Champion (typically by winning the game)
Violet   Gain a Patent Title (except Champion, degrees)
Indigo   Gain a degree
Platinum Become the Speaker
Lime Coauthor three adopted proposals within 7 days
WhiteNever have had a White Ribbon, or be gifted one by someone
who has never gifted a White Ribbon
blacKAwardable only by proposal or scam
GrAy Awarded monthly at the Tailor's discretion
Transparent  Qualify for 5 Ribbons in the same week (ones you already
have count)

History of Ribbon holdings:
2014-11-04  aranea  +W (new to Ribbons)
2014-11-04  aranea  +C (deputising for Tailor)
2014-11-06  Sprocklem   +W (new to Ribbons)
2014-11-09  omd +C (deputising for King Azaz)
2014-11-14  Alexis  +C (deputising for Herald)
2015-01-07  G.  +C (deputising for Referee)
2015-04-17  stadjer +W (new to Ribbons)
2015-05-01  aranea  +R (Proposal 7736)
2015-05-01  aranea  +O (Proposal 7735)
2015-05-01  aranea  +L (Proposal 7735-37)
2015-05-01  G.  +R (Proposal 7734)
2015-05-01  G.  +O (Proposal 7738)
2015-05-01  G.  +L (Proposal 7734,38,39)
2015-05-01  G.  +P (appointed Speaker)
2015-05-12  ais523  +O (Proposal 7742)
2015-05-12  Alexis  +P (appointed Speaker)
2015-05-13  Alexis  +G (as Tailor)
2015-05-22  G.  +B (CFJ 3448)
2015-05-23  Alexis  +B (CFJ 3447)
2015-05-24  G.  +W (gifted by aranea)
2015-06-09  ais523  +G (as Prime Minister)

DIS: holy crap 80+ messages

[ATMunn]

So I just woke up this morning to find more than 80 messages in my Agora
folder. I'm going to go through them from top to bottom, so if I respond
to something in a way that doesn't make sense in the context of other
messages, that's why.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Got some new toys.

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I actually knew that already, so I'm not sure what I was thinking when I wrote 
that. Thanks for the correction, though.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 12, 2018 12:35 PM, Corona  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> FYI: The Spivak pronoun nominative is "e", not "ey" (reflecting "he" and
> 
> "she"), though you can, of course, use any pronouns you want.
> 
> I favor the CFJ called by V.J. Rada in this thread.
> 
> On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> 
> > I become a party to the contract "Sillyness by contract".
> > 
> > I act on behalf of V.J. Rada to perform the following actions: {
> > 
> > Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (0, -1).
> > 
> > Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (-1, -1).
> > 
> > Transfer all liquid assets from the mine at (-1, -1) to V.J. Rada.
> > 
> > Transfer 3 stone and 2 ore from V.J. Rada to Trigon.
> > 
> > }
> > 
> > This meets the requirement of being extremely silly because it is only
> > 
> > necessary due to a minor grammatical error on Trigon's part, and it meets
> > 
> > the requirement of not harming V.J. Rada's standing in the game
> > 
> > significantly because eir only loss from these actions is 2 apples (which
> > 
> > ey already have plenty of) and the right to transfer assets from a
> > 
> > preserved facility before next Friday (which ey already have enough assets
> > 
> > not to have much need of).
> > 
> > -twg
> > 
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > 
> > On June 12, 2018 10:31 AM, Ned Strange edwardostra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > it doesn't, do it again
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com
> > > 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Could you guys let me do one thing in this game without pointing out
> > > > 
> > > > how I
> > > 
> > > > messed up?
> > > > 
> > > > Okay, okay. Here's a flimsy argument for why this works:
> > > > 
> > > > I could only possibly transfer items to myself from a facility on a
> > > > 
> > > > land
> > > 
> > > > unit I'm on. Therefore, "that unit" should mean "the unit I'm on" since
> > > > 
> > > > that's the only option for transferring. Therefore, the attempt
> > > > 
> > > > succeeds.
> > > 
> > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 04:13 Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On June 12, 2018 8:25 AM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com
> > > > > 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > I destroy a coin to make (-2, -1) black and switch the alternating
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > type.
> > > 
> > > > > > I transfer the mine on that unit's resources to myself.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this fails, because (-2, -1)
> > > > > 
> > > > > doesn't have a mine on it, and wasn't where you were standing
> > > > > 
> > > > > anyway. I
> > > 
> > > > > think you meant to reference the mine at (-1, -1), but I can't come
> > > > > 
> > > > > up with
> > > 
> > > > > a parsing where "that unit" refers to anything other than (-2, -1).
> > > > > 
> > > > > -twg
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > From V.J. Rada
> 
> --
> 
> ~Corona

Re: DIS: trades

[Kerim Aydin]

The whole point of Trades is that, like pledges, there should be 
some defined, automatic, working, and easy-to-make thing rather than just 
saying "sure this can all be done with contracts but nobody bothers
because that takes effort."

As an example, Pledges could be incorporated into contracts too.  But
people actually use pledges (and the tracking is fairly incidental and
not-value added) and bringing them into contracts would kill them.

I think it would come up as frequently as pledges.

On Mon, 11 Jun 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> This could easily be done under the less formal contracts of the new
> system. You could just make the information public, and then the contract
> would follow fairly naturally and be implied. To be honest, I'm pretty
> excited about these new contracts. They may have problems (lack of
> recordkeeping comes to mind), but those can be fixed as they arise.
> 
> I'm not sure if this needs to be a standalone rule. How often do you think
> it would come up?
> 
> -Aris
> 
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 11:44 PM Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >
> > Proto:  Trades.
> >
> > [this might be a type of contract or something but it seems nice like
> > a standalone too]
> >
> >A player (the seller) CAN create a Trade Offer by announcement,
> >specifying a set of assets e owns (the tender) and an action
> >(the exchange) that e wants in trade (e.g. a transfer of assets
> >to emself).  E may optionally specify a set of players other
> >than the seller eligible to make the exchange (buyers).  If e
> >does not specify the default buyers are all players other than
> >the seller.
> >
> >A Trade Offer is valid until:
> >  (a) a buyer makes the exchange for that Trade Offer;
> >  (b) the seller withdraws the offer; or
> >  (c) one week has passed.
> >
> >A buyer makes the exchange on a valid Trade Offer by
> >announcement, citing the specific offer as the reason for
> >performing the exchange action, provided that (1) the buyer
> >CAN otherwise perform the exchange action by announcement;
> >   (2) the seller CAN transfer the tender to the buyer by announcement.
> >
> >When the exchange is made, that buyer performs the exchange action,
> >and immediately afterwards the tender is transferred from the
> >seller to the buyer.  If either portion of the trade fails,
> >both fail (no exchange action is performed and no tender is
> >transferred).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Got some new toys.

[Corona]

FYI: The Spivak pronoun nominative is "e", not "ey" (reflecting "he" and
"she"), though you can, of course, use any pronouns you want.

I favor the CFJ called by V.J. Rada in this thread.

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:

> I become a party to the contract "Sillyness by contract".
>
> I act on behalf of V.J. Rada to perform the following actions: {
>
> Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (0, -1).
>
> Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (-1, -1).
>
> Transfer all liquid assets from the mine at (-1, -1) to V.J. Rada.
>
> Transfer 3 stone and 2 ore from V.J. Rada to Trigon.
>
> }
>
> This meets the requirement of being extremely silly because it is only
> necessary due to a minor grammatical error on Trigon's part, and it meets
> the requirement of not harming V.J. Rada's standing in the game
> significantly because eir only loss from these actions is 2 apples (which
> ey already have plenty of) and the right to transfer assets from a
> preserved facility before next Friday (which ey already have enough assets
> not to have much need of).
>
> -twg
> ​​
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On June 12, 2018 10:31 AM, Ned Strange  wrote:
>
> > ​​
> >
> > it doesn't, do it again
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com
> wrote:
> >
> > > Could you guys let me do one thing in this game without pointing out
> how I
> > >
> > > messed up?
> > >
> > > Okay, okay. Here's a flimsy argument for why this works:
> > >
> > > I could only possibly transfer items to myself from a facility on a
> land
> > >
> > > unit I'm on. Therefore, "that unit" should mean "the unit I'm on" since
> > >
> > > that's the only option for transferring. Therefore, the attempt
> succeeds.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 04:13 Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > >
> > > > On June 12, 2018 8:25 AM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I destroy a coin to make (-2, -1) black and switch the alternating
> type.
> > > > >
> > > > > I transfer the mine on that unit's resources to myself.
> > > >
> > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this fails, because (-2, -1)
> > > >
> > > > doesn't have a mine on it, and wasn't where you were standing
> anyway. I
> > > >
> > > > think you meant to reference the mine at (-1, -1), but I can't come
> up with
> > > >
> > > > a parsing where "that unit" refers to anything other than (-2, -1).
> > > >
> > > > -twg
> >
> > --
> >
> > From V.J. Rada
>
>
>

-- 
~Corona

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Got some new toys.

[Ned Strange]

I'm not offended.

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:51 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:
> I wasn't aware of that definition of "silly" (I can't find it in the FLR, so 
> I assume the rule was repealed). But in any case, I think common sense 
> indicates that your own assessment of what "significantly harms" you is more 
> accurate than mine, so since you disagree, I believe that means my actions on 
> your behalf fail.
>
> I didn't mean to cause any offense, I just thought it was amusing. :)
>
> -twg
>
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On June 12, 2018 10:47 AM, Ned Strange  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I call a CFJ with the statement "The four below actions are each
>>
>> extremely silly, and none significantly harm my standing in the game".
>>
>> None of them are remotely silly. Silly in an Agoran context is a
>>
>> common-law term of art related to Silly proposals. Even if not, no
>>
>> ordinary meaning of the word silly encompasses these game actions. And
>>
>> also, even if losing two apples doesn't harm me, losing 3 stone, two
>>
>> ore and 2 apples does. The actions must all be evaluated seperately,
>>
>> so even if the first three actions work, the fourth should not.
>>
>> Anyway, significantly should be interpreted as "not de minimis", and
>>
>> any asset loss is more than a minimal effect on my standing in the
>>
>> game.
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:39 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
>>
>> > I become a party to the contract "Sillyness by contract".
>> >
>> > I act on behalf of V.J. Rada to perform the following actions: {
>> >
>> > Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (0, -1).
>> >
>> > Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (-1, -1).
>> >
>> > Transfer all liquid assets from the mine at (-1, -1) to V.J. Rada.
>> >
>> > Transfer 3 stone and 2 ore from V.J. Rada to Trigon.
>> >
>> > }
>> >
>> > This meets the requirement of being extremely silly because it is only 
>> > necessary due to a minor grammatical error on Trigon's part, and it meets 
>> > the requirement of not harming V.J. Rada's standing in the game 
>> > significantly because eir only loss from these actions is 2 apples (which 
>> > ey already have plenty of) and the right to transfer assets from a 
>> > preserved facility before next Friday (which ey already have enough assets 
>> > not to have much need of).
>> >
>> > -twg
>> >
>> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>> >
>> > On June 12, 2018 10:31 AM, Ned Strange edwardostra...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> > > it doesn't, do it again
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com 
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Could you guys let me do one thing in this game without pointing out 
>> > > > how I
>> > > >
>> > > > messed up?
>> > > >
>> > > > Okay, okay. Here's a flimsy argument for why this works:
>> > > >
>> > > > I could only possibly transfer items to myself from a facility on a 
>> > > > land
>> > > >
>> > > > unit I'm on. Therefore, "that unit" should mean "the unit I'm on" since
>> > > >
>> > > > that's the only option for transferring. Therefore, the attempt 
>> > > > succeeds.
>> > > >
>> > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 04:13 Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > On June 12, 2018 8:25 AM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com 
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > I destroy a coin to make (-2, -1) black and switch the alternating 
>> > > > > > type.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I transfer the mine on that unit's resources to myself.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this fails, because (-2, -1)
>> > > > >
>> > > > > doesn't have a mine on it, and wasn't where you were standing 
>> > > > > anyway. I
>> > > > >
>> > > > > think you meant to reference the mine at (-1, -1), but I can't come 
>> > > > > up with
>> > > > >
>> > > > > a parsing where "that unit" refers to anything other than (-2, -1).
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -twg
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > >
>> > > From V.J. Rada
>>
>> --
>>
>> From V.J. Rada
>
>



-- 
>From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Got some new toys.

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I wasn't aware of that definition of "silly" (I can't find it in the FLR, so I 
assume the rule was repealed). But in any case, I think common sense indicates 
that your own assessment of what "significantly harms" you is more accurate 
than mine, so since you disagree, I believe that means my actions on your 
behalf fail.

I didn't mean to cause any offense, I just thought it was amusing. :)

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 12, 2018 10:47 AM, Ned Strange  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I call a CFJ with the statement "The four below actions are each
> 
> extremely silly, and none significantly harm my standing in the game".
> 
> None of them are remotely silly. Silly in an Agoran context is a
> 
> common-law term of art related to Silly proposals. Even if not, no
> 
> ordinary meaning of the word silly encompasses these game actions. And
> 
> also, even if losing two apples doesn't harm me, losing 3 stone, two
> 
> ore and 2 apples does. The actions must all be evaluated seperately,
> 
> so even if the first three actions work, the fourth should not.
> 
> Anyway, significantly should be interpreted as "not de minimis", and
> 
> any asset loss is more than a minimal effect on my standing in the
> 
> game.
> 
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:39 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> 
> > I become a party to the contract "Sillyness by contract".
> > 
> > I act on behalf of V.J. Rada to perform the following actions: {
> > 
> > Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (0, -1).
> > 
> > Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (-1, -1).
> > 
> > Transfer all liquid assets from the mine at (-1, -1) to V.J. Rada.
> > 
> > Transfer 3 stone and 2 ore from V.J. Rada to Trigon.
> > 
> > }
> > 
> > This meets the requirement of being extremely silly because it is only 
> > necessary due to a minor grammatical error on Trigon's part, and it meets 
> > the requirement of not harming V.J. Rada's standing in the game 
> > significantly because eir only loss from these actions is 2 apples (which 
> > ey already have plenty of) and the right to transfer assets from a 
> > preserved facility before next Friday (which ey already have enough assets 
> > not to have much need of).
> > 
> > -twg
> > 
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > 
> > On June 12, 2018 10:31 AM, Ned Strange edwardostra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > it doesn't, do it again
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Could you guys let me do one thing in this game without pointing out 
> > > > how I
> > > > 
> > > > messed up?
> > > > 
> > > > Okay, okay. Here's a flimsy argument for why this works:
> > > > 
> > > > I could only possibly transfer items to myself from a facility on a land
> > > > 
> > > > unit I'm on. Therefore, "that unit" should mean "the unit I'm on" since
> > > > 
> > > > that's the only option for transferring. Therefore, the attempt 
> > > > succeeds.
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 04:13 Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On June 12, 2018 8:25 AM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > I destroy a coin to make (-2, -1) black and switch the alternating 
> > > > > > type.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I transfer the mine on that unit's resources to myself.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this fails, because (-2, -1)
> > > > > 
> > > > > doesn't have a mine on it, and wasn't where you were standing anyway. 
> > > > > I
> > > > > 
> > > > > think you meant to reference the mine at (-1, -1), but I can't come 
> > > > > up with
> > > > > 
> > > > > a parsing where "that unit" refers to anything other than (-2, -1).
> > > > > 
> > > > > -twg
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > From V.J. Rada
> 
> --
> 
> From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Got some new toys.

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Sorry. :P I just figured it would be more helpful to speak up now instead of 
risking the possibility that the Treasuror would rule against it in eir next 
report without pointing it out to anyone. I don't know whether your argument is 
valid (or even whether mine was in the first place).

-twg

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On June 12, 2018 10:25 AM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> Could you guys let me do one thing in this game without pointing out how I 
> messed up?
>
> Okay, okay. Here's a flimsy argument for why this works:
>
> I could only possibly transfer items to myself from a facility on a land unit 
> I'm on. Therefore, "that unit" should mean "the unit I'm on" since that's the 
> only option for transferring. Therefore, the attempt succeeds.
>
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 04:13 Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:
>
>> On June 12, 2018 8:25 AM, Reuben Staley  wrote:
>>
>>> I destroy a coin to make (-2, -1) black and switch the alternating type.
>>>
>>> I transfer the mine on that unit's resources to myself.
>>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this fails, because (-2, -1) doesn't 
>> have a mine on it, and wasn't where you were standing anyway. I think you 
>> meant to reference the mine at (-1, -1), but I can't come up with a parsing 
>> where "that unit" refers to anything other than (-2, -1).
>>
>> -twg

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Got some new toys.

[Ned Strange]

it doesn't, do it again

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Reuben Staley  wrote:
> Could you guys let me do one thing in this game without pointing out how I
> messed up?
>
> Okay, okay. Here's a flimsy argument for why this works:
>
> I could only possibly transfer items to myself from a facility on a land
> unit I'm on. Therefore, "that unit" should mean "the unit I'm on" since
> that's the only option for transferring. Therefore, the attempt succeeds.
>
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 04:13 Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:
>
>> On June 12, 2018 8:25 AM, Reuben Staley  wrote:
>>
>> > I destroy a coin to make (-2, -1) black and switch the alternating type.
>> >
>> > I transfer the mine on that unit's resources to myself.
>>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this fails, because (-2, -1)
>> doesn't have a mine on it, and wasn't where you were standing anyway. I
>> think you meant to reference the mine at (-1, -1), but I can't come up with
>> a parsing where "that unit" refers to anything other than (-2, -1).
>>
>> -twg
>>



-- 
>From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Got some new toys.

[Reuben Staley]

Could you guys let me do one thing in this game without pointing out how I
messed up?

Okay, okay. Here's a flimsy argument for why this works:

I could only possibly transfer items to myself from a facility on a land
unit I'm on. Therefore, "that unit" should mean "the unit I'm on" since
that's the only option for transferring. Therefore, the attempt succeeds.

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 04:13 Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:

> On June 12, 2018 8:25 AM, Reuben Staley  wrote:
>
> > I destroy a coin to make (-2, -1) black and switch the alternating type.
> >
> > I transfer the mine on that unit's resources to myself.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this fails, because (-2, -1)
> doesn't have a mine on it, and wasn't where you were standing anyway. I
> think you meant to reference the mine at (-1, -1), but I can't come up with
> a parsing where "that unit" refers to anything other than (-2, -1).
>
> -twg
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Got some new toys.

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

On June 12, 2018 8:25 AM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> I destroy a coin to make (-2, -1) black and switch the alternating type.
> 
> I transfer the mine on that unit's resources to myself.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this fails, because (-2, -1) doesn't 
have a mine on it, and wasn't where you were standing anyway. I think you meant 
to reference the mine at (-1, -1), but I can't come up with a parsing where 
"that unit" refers to anything other than (-2, -1).

-twg

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land auctions for June week 3

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I bid 10 coins in auction 1.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 12, 2018 8:41 AM, Corona  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I bid 11 coins in auction 3 and I bid 9 coins in auction 1.
> 
> On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> 
> > I withdraw my bid in auction 3. I bid 8 coins in auction 1.
> > 
> > -twg
> > 
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > 
> > On June 12, 2018 7:53 AM, Ned Strange edwardostra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > I bid ten coins in auction 3
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I bid 9 coins in auction 3.
> > > > 
> > > > -twg
> > > > 
> > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > > 
> > > > On June 12, 2018 6:24 AM, Corona liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > I bid eight (8) coins in each auction.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ~Corona
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 6:28 AM, Ned Strange
> > > > > 
> > > > > edwardostra...@gmail.com
> > > 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > I bid six coins in each auction
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 2:26 PM, Kerim Aydin
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > ke...@u.washington.edu
> > > 
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I bid 5 coins in each auction.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2018, Ned Strange wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I bid 3 coins in each auction
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Kerim Aydin
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > ke...@u.washington.edu
> > > 
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > I bid 2 coins in each auction. -G.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, 11 Jun 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > There are currently more public, unpreserved, non-aether
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > land units
> > > 
> > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > existence than I feel like counting. 5 land units of my
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > choice are
> > > 
> > > > > > > > > > put up for
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > auction.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > From this point on, I intend to prioritize land units
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > closer to the
> > > 
> > > > > > > > > > center
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > island over those on the rim since those are probably more
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > useful.
> > > 
> > > > > > > > > > For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > 
> > > > > > > > > > auctioneer, and
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as such:
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > AUCTION 1: the land unit at (+3, +1)
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > AUCTION 2: the land unit at (+3, -2)
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > AUCTION 3: the land unit at (+4, -1)
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > AUCTION 4: the land unit at (-2, 0)
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > AUCTION 5: the land unit at (-3, 0)
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Trigon
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > From V.J. Rada
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > From V.J. Rada
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > From V.J. Rada
> 
> --
> 
> ~Corona

DIS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land auctions for June week 1

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

Lovely. I pay 6 coins to Agora to transfer the land unit at (+5, 0) to myself.

-twg
​​

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On June 12, 2018 1:00 AM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

> ​​
> 
> I resolve the land auctions as such (yes i know they should have ended
> 
> last week, screw off):
> 
> AUCTION 1
> 
> Bidder Amount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trigon 1c.
> 
> twg 2c.
> 
> G. 5c.
> 
> Corona 6c.
> 
> G. 8c.
> 
> AUCTION 2
> 
> Bidder Amount
> 
> 
> -
> 
> Trigon 1c.
> 
> ATMunn 3c.
> 
> G. 3c.
> 
> twg 4c.
> 
> Corona 5c.
> 
> twg 6c.
> 
> AUCTION 3
> 
> Bidder Amount
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Trigon 1c.
> 
> ATMunn 3c.
> 
> Corona 5c.
> 
> AUCTION 4
> 
> Bidder Amount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trigon 1c.
> 
> ATMunn 3c.
> 
> Murphy 6c.
> 
> Corona 7c.
> 
> Murphy 8c.
> 
> AUCTION 5
> 
> Bidder Amount
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trigon 1c.
> 
> ATMunn 3c.
> 
> Corona 5c.
> 
> Murphy 6c.
> 
> Wow, this was disappointing.
> 
> On 05/31/2018 04:59 PM, Reuben Staley wrote:
> 
> > There are currently 7 public, unpreserved, non-aether land units in
> > 
> > existence. 5 land units of my choice are put up for auction.
> > 
> > For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is the
> > 
> > auctioneer, and the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as such:
> > 
> > AUCTION 1: the white land unit at (+3, -1)
> > 
> > AUCTION 2: the white land unit at (+5,  0)
> > 
> > AUCTION 3: the white land unit at (+6,  0)
> > 
> > AUCTION 4: the black land unit at (+6, +1)
> > 
> > AUCTION 5: the black land unit at (+6, +2)
> 
> --
> 
> Trigon

Re: DIS: trades

[Aris Merchant]

This could easily be done under the less formal contracts of the new
system. You could just make the information public, and then the contract
would follow fairly naturally and be implied. To be honest, I'm pretty
excited about these new contracts. They may have problems (lack of
recordkeeping comes to mind), but those can be fixed as they arise.

I'm not sure if this needs to be a standalone rule. How often do you think
it would come up?

-Aris

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 11:44 PM Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
>
> Proto:  Trades.
>
> [this might be a type of contract or something but it seems nice like
> a standalone too]
>
>A player (the seller) CAN create a Trade Offer by announcement,
>specifying a set of assets e owns (the tender) and an action
>(the exchange) that e wants in trade (e.g. a transfer of assets
>to emself).  E may optionally specify a set of players other
>than the seller eligible to make the exchange (buyers).  If e
>does not specify the default buyers are all players other than
>the seller.
>
>A Trade Offer is valid until:
>  (a) a buyer makes the exchange for that Trade Offer;
>  (b) the seller withdraws the offer; or
>  (c) one week has passed.
>
>A buyer makes the exchange on a valid Trade Offer by
>announcement, citing the specific offer as the reason for
>performing the exchange action, provided that (1) the buyer
>CAN otherwise perform the exchange action by announcement;
>   (2) the seller CAN transfer the tender to the buyer by announcement.
>
>When the exchange is made, that buyer performs the exchange action,
>and immediately afterwards the tender is transferred from the
>seller to the buyer.  If either portion of the trade fails,
>both fail (no exchange action is performed and no tender is
>transferred).
>
>
>
>

DIS: trades

[Kerim Aydin]

Proto:  Trades.

[this might be a type of contract or something but it seems nice like
a standalone too]

   A player (the seller) CAN create a Trade Offer by announcement, 
   specifying a set of assets e owns (the tender) and an action 
   (the exchange) that e wants in trade (e.g. a transfer of assets
   to emself).  E may optionally specify a set of players other
   than the seller eligible to make the exchange (buyers).  If e
   does not specify the default buyers are all players other than
   the seller.

   A Trade Offer is valid until:
 (a) a buyer makes the exchange for that Trade Offer;
 (b) the seller withdraws the offer; or
 (c) one week has passed.

   A buyer makes the exchange on a valid Trade Offer by 
   announcement, citing the specific offer as the reason for
   performing the exchange action, provided that (1) the buyer 
   CAN otherwise perform the exchange action by announcement; 
  (2) the seller CAN transfer the tender to the buyer by announcement.

   When the exchange is made, that buyer performs the exchange action,
   and immediately afterwards the tender is transferred from the
   seller to the buyer.  If either portion of the trade fails,
   both fail (no exchange action is performed and no tender is
   transferred).