Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Yeah thanks, however untrusted people will still talk about cracks and pirated software and games. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182898#p182898 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-31
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : fergregoire94 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read Thank you for hearing us. Although always will be people talking about cracks somewhere, Im sure that the community will contribute to the work audiogame developers do for us in their spare time by encouraging one each other to comply with the rules. Indeed, turning back on the private messaging is a decision for which I am proud. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182909#p182909 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well as I said, it wasnt so much about people exchanging pirated software generaly, as about the forum . Unfortunately sinse according to Sander there wasnt a software solution in PumBB it was a case of deciding which was the lesser of evils. The faq will get some major updates next week reflecting pm use, plus a couple more questions on unrelated matters as well and maybe some extra headings just to make navigation easier too. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=183030#p183030 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Roro, thats unfortunately just a fact of life. If the pirates dont use the private message system to pirate and crack games theyll find some other way to do it weather it is e-mail, Facebook, Twitter,exchange cracks via Skype, so there is really no way to really stop it entirely. Only merely thwart the amount of piracy that can be done via this particular forum. The question comes down to how much does the casual average user have to pay for someone elses criminal activities. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=183086#p183086 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Moderation! As people will notice, private messages have been restord. In the end, after a lot of thought and consulting various opinions, it was decided that its better to trust the community. The sitefaq will be updated in the next few days, however in the mean time if anyone recieves a private message which goes against the rules, either by insulting behaviour or asking for pirated games or cracks, please forward it to a moderator. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182788#p182788 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Thank you! Much appreciated, and Im sure many others would agree. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182827#p182827 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read I would also like to say thank you as well. I dont use the private messaging system much personally, but I am glad it is there for the times I do want it or need it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182874#p182874 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read If the PM system must be restored with a mandatory protection clause in the rules to get it back, Im in favour. That way, PMs come back, and people can choose whether or not theyd like their communications to be filtered. Naturally, people would have to be honest in their reporting, which given the nature of piracy, will inevitably not always be the case. But it would be the best compromise. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182424#p182424 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read @Dark: speaking as a netizen since about 97, but by no means for everybody, then yes, if someone addresses a message to me alone then I think its for me to deal with. Its great to have support of moderators and indeed others, but as long as there are trolls on the Interwebs then my only realistic option is to dwell briefly on how unfortunate it is that people cant be respectful to one anothers differences, and move on. I will of course report any clear technology abuses or violations of the law, but its up to you to set rules that clearly stipulate what you do and dont tolerate, so if you wanted to prohibit, say, hate speech, you would need to make it very clear, and say that this also applies to PMs which you regard as a part of the forum experience; then I can reasonably expect to get a useful result by reporting a bad person to you so that you can deal with it. You may do this, if you think its for everybodys benefit, but I don 39;t hold it against you if you choose not to do so; you arent there to protect my feelings, and the fact that anybody can bypass you by sending me email is precisely why I dont believe moderating PMs makes any sense at all.Now, if a similar exchange occurs in public, the rules are really quite different, because as a moderator you are *expected* to keep the wheels turning, and are therefore entitled to reject what you see as unruly behaviour unsuited to the operation of the forum.Again, I understand that you protect game developers, I just dont see how you can realistically change anything about the way people choose to conduct themselves in private; whether its a predisposition to cracking or a predisposition to heartlessness, it simply isnt something you can do anything about. It really is a testament to how well you and the other mods perform that there is both no killfile function on this board, and no need for one. You should be prou d of that, and I congratulate you. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182377#p182377 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Speaking of hate speech Sebby this is where I see E-mail and private messages as different. If someone sends you an insulting e-mail, well thats off the forum. If someone however sends you an insulting pm, then you could! reasonably forward it to the moderators, sinse it migh be private but its still on the forum. Think of it this way, if someone punches you, you can ring the police whether this is public or private. If your happy with being punched then you probably wontt, and if you go to another country and someone punches you, well the police in Britain cant help. Rules about insulting or harmful behaviour are the same on the forum, though obviously A, you have to forward the pm to the moderator so it will no longer be private, and B, you are obviously at the moderators discression for whether they see this as an insult or not just like in public.The case of cracks however is a different one, sinse there it is far less likely the people involved will report the wrong doing. Also, while insulting behaviour might insult one person and be a bad thing on that score, with cracks the impact on devellopers is far more tangeable as I said. On the other hand cases of talk of cracks are far less nebulus and based on peoples feelings than insults and thus far easier to o define, sinse either someone is asking for a crack or giving out a crack or they are not. Ditto with illegal activity, it is not whether it is legal that really matters, it is whether it hurts others, hence the rulings in the faq, indeed the position on audio game cracks as opposed to copywrite music and audiobooks is a little different for that reason. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182393#p182393 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Hi all,I have a bit of a unique perspective on this matter as I am both a game developer and have been a moderator of various lists throughout my years as an internet user. However, the fact of the matter is as has been stated there is no satisfactory solution for this problem, because if someone can use it they will abuse it. That just is one of those unfortunate facts of life we all have to live with.That said, first of all we have to begin with stating the rules and letting people know that the rules applies to private messages as well as to public posts. While I know Dark has his doubts about the community policing itself I am one of those who thinks the majority of the members of this forum are generally honest and would turn in someone who is abusing the system if they were directed to do so in the rules and told when, where, and how to report abuses. That may seem like turning a blind eye to the problem but we have to be realistic here.For one thing the private message system was never designed to prevent people from exchanging cracks, pirating games, and therefore short of moderating each and every message there isnt a realistic way to catch people at abusing the system. The next best thing in that case is to strongly discourage people from doing it, state clearly in the rules that it is not to be done, and rely on the forums more honest members to enforce the rules in cases where a moderator cant do the job alone.As a developer myself I really dislike piracy. It upsets me to see people passing around cracks for games weather it is my game or not, but over the years I have come to see piracy as a realistic but unfortunate hazard of writing software. People have all kinds of personal motivations for pirating software, and some of them are even justifiable in certain cases. Regardless of what justification or motivation is behind a persons actions we as moderators and developers cant possibly st op piracy ourselves. Sooner or later we have to trust the community in helping us fight piracy by reporting offenders, by letting us know when a service is being abused, and mainly being our eyes and ears when we cant be there ourselves.In short I think the best thing to do here is allow people to use the private message system because it is and has been a very useful contribution to this forum. I understand that piracy is and will always be a risk, but so is Skype, e-mail, Facebook, Twitter, and pretty much any other social media. Any system that allows two or more people to communicate via the internet can be abused so private messages is no more and no less a threat to developers than any other means of communication. While I commend Darks desire to try to make private messaging more secure it does seem a little heavy handed to me, and unfair to punish both the innocent along with the guilty forum members by disabling the service completely. It seems more fair to me to allow the forum members to use it, but make it clear that it is not to be used for piracy and that anyone can report abuses of the system to the moderators. That should be hopefully a satisfactory solution to the issue under the current circumstances. I look forward to any thoughts, suggestions, or comments about this possible solution to the situation. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182396#p182396 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-26
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : fergregoire94 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read I never used PMs on this forum, but turning them off is like an airplane pilot intentionally crashing against a building only because his ex-girlfriend and her current usband are there.Even on countries that censor the Internet, there are users who find ways of skyping it, like proxyes, VPNs or encription extensions installed on web browsers. In other words, disabling private messages is not a solution at all. Why not trusting the community as a wole instead?Concerning the rules, I think these are clear. Altough there are cultural differences that sometimes the language show, Internet and information technologies in general are too connected with the English language. Different users will have differents levels of English, but almost any user who use a computer will know which a crack, serial, keygen or patch mean. There are people that are not computer entusiasts and may be confused the first time they hear those terms, but it is not anything that a friend or relativ e couldnt answer on any countrie/region with Internet access.If the so big problem behind this are the rules, I dont have any inconvenience to translate then into Spanish. I like translating and Id like to localize anything related to this site, but I dont believe that making rules available in many language will help to stop piracy. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182140#p182140 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read @Fergregoir, I have already mentioned why A, I considder private messages as part of the forum and under the forum rules and B, why this is not an emotional matter, please read my above responses. @Sebby, What if someone sent you a hugely insulting private message, would you report it to the moderators? what if the moderators then said sorry private messages are private, we cant have people saying bad things on the forum, but anyone is free to do it in a pm. the same goes with cracks and piracy. If a developer posts a game in full expectation that the forum will support their efforts and that people will be buying it, how would it be if people actually used the forum to send cracks? What help is the forum doing the developer then? As I have sid before repeatedly this is not an attempt to stop all audio game piracy everywhere! only to regulate this forum and insure that it is used for its intended purpose. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182161#p182161 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-26
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : fergregoire94 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read @Dark, I never said that the measure was an emotional consequence. As a moderator, Im sure youre really defending to the audio game developers and consequentially the players that will enjoy such work.I think the van you applied to the user who asked you for the cracks is the solution. If you continue applying sanctions like this and commenting them, the community will progressively start to take rules seriously. I believe your explanation about the relatively small amount of sales of audiogames is enough. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182163#p182163 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read The problem Fergregoir, is that there is no way to regulate private messages the way there is the main forum. Had this chap requested a crack from anyone else bar me Id have not known about it and there wouldve been no consequence, which is one reason why i am fairly certain there has been a lot more of this going on, sinse if three people are foolish enough within the course of a year to pm the administrator! asking for a crack, how many crackers are wiser? Yes, moderators could check everyones pms, but firstly this would not make them private, and secondly, well moderators dont have that much time.Failing any software solution, The alternative to disabling pms out right is to have a rule stating that people should report anyone who pms them regarding cracks, however again, how many people are actually likely to do this? really the prison snitch thing hardly works. That is the problem and why pms have been disabled. i f there was an easy solution, theyd already be back. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182169#p182169 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : BlackBird via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read @DarkIs suspect you created this forum in an attempt to also create a community and it seems you have succeeded. Although this is still your forum and your responsibility you might have to acknowledge that the community itself has grown and is now an entity in itself and you you will always be its founder but you are not its leader nor its absolute watchdog. As communities grow so does the diversity of its individuals. With every new member new ideas and new opinions are added. And while this is a blessing in many respects it also comes with drawbacks. People doing things you do not agree with and maybe even discussing stuff you find appalling is one of them. Becoming aware of such instances leaves you with two choices. Burning it to the ground or accepting the circumstances while doing your due diligence. Due diligence in the sense that you clearly prohibit such actions and take measures whenever a case is brought to your attention but in the end accepting that such a ctions may happen in a clandestine fashion without being able to do anything about it.Personal messages and communication are an important part of every community be it in real life or in the digital space. Removing this option not only restricts its members but also disrupts the very goal you tried to achieve. Growing a community. Forcing people to use eMail removes the immediacy of the communication within this forum and while not being a huge deal it does work against the comfort and usability.It is ultimately and obviously your decision but I would advise against disabling of personal messages solely on the grounds of a handful of members (maybe even less) acting in a way you personally disapprove with. Thats not how communities work in my honest opinion. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182035#p182035 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : BlackBird via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read @DarkIs suspect you created this forum in an attempt to also create a community and it seems you have succeeded. Although this is still your forum and your responsibility you might have to acknowledge that the community itself has grown and is now an entity in itself and while you will always be its founder you are not its leader nor its omniscient watchdog. As communities grow so does the diversity of its individuals. With every new member new ideas and new opinions are added. And while this is a blessing in many respects it also comes with drawbacks. People doing things you do not agree with and maybe even discussing stuff you find appalling is one of them. Becoming aware of such instances leaves you with two choices. Burning it to the ground or accepting the circumstances while doing your due diligence. Due diligence in the sense that you clearly prohibit such actions and take measures whenever a case is brought to your attention but in the end accepting that such actions may happen in a clandestine fashion without being able to do anything about it.Personal messages and communication are an important part of every community be it in real life or in the digital space. Removing this option not only restricts its members but also disrupts the very goal you tried to achieve. Growing a community. Forcing people to use eMail removes the immediacy of the communication within this forum and while not being a huge deal it does work against the comfort and usability.It is ultimately and obviously your decision but I would advise against disabling of personal messages solely on the grounds of a handful of members (maybe even less) acting in a way you personally disapprove with. Thats not how communities work in my honest opinion. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182035#p182035 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : BlackBird via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read Dark wrote: this isnt really a question of opinions. jo thinks cracking audio games is fie, well Im not going to try and change jos mind, thats up to Jo, however sinse piracy is contrary to what were trying to do on this forum, ie promote audio games, and support developers, Jo doesnt talk about or distribute pirated games hereWell, I left the issue of piracy alone in my original argument because I didnt saw it as meaningful to the discussion. Now that my opinion on the matter at hand has been stated let me just briefly address the issue of piracy from my point of view.Numerous studies have been conducted to prove or disprove the negative effects of piracy on the entertainment industry. There is no conclusive evidence for either. Some studies cite that the marketing value and word of mouth propaganda of good products actually outweigh the loss of sales. In the end the products actually sell much better because more people know about them and the increase in sales is higher than the loss of sales due to piracy. However, bad products or products with a niche appeal can suffer because the propaganda is negative or the size of the target audience is limited to the point where every lost sale cant be replaced. Other studies have come to the conclusion that over 80% or 90% of the people who pirate the products wouldnt buy it anyway and therefore the loss in sales is very limited. A recently conducted study in North America did find that the money people spend per month on media stays exactly the same no matter if they pirate or not. They buy the products which they value the highest and mostly pirate stuff that they couldnt afford and are not so much interested in anyway. Numerous companies report massive loss of sales due to piracy but dont actually release sales data which makes this hard to confirm.The matter o f the fact is that the effects of piracy are not apparent and it is not currently possible to say if it is a bad thing or not. The data is simply not sufficient for either side of the argument. People hate uncertainty though and thats why everyone argues for one side of the argument only citing studies and data to support their own argument and point of view. The truth is that there is no answer to the question whether piracy is a bad or a good thing. It varies wildly from case to case and no conclusion can be drawn as of yet. Thats why I disagree with you and say that piracy actually is a matter of opinion. This may of course change in the future with more long term studies coming to fruition. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182055#p182055 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : BlackBird via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read Dark wrote: this isnt really a question of opinions. jo thinks cracking audio games is fie, well Im not going to try and change jos mind, thats up to Jo, however sinse piracy is contrary to what were trying to do on this forum, ie promote audio games, and support developers, Jo doesnt talk about or distribute pirated games hereWell, I left the issue of piracy alone in my original argument because I didnt saw it as meaningful to the discussion. Now that my opinion on the matter at hand has been stated let me just briefly address the issue of piracy from my point of view.Numerous studies have been conducted to prove or disprove the negative effects of piracy on the entertainment industry. There is no conclusive evidence for either. Some studies cite that the marketing value and word of mouth propaganda of good products actually outweigh the loss of sales. In the end the products actually sell much better because more people know about them and the increase in sales is higher than the loss of sales due to piracy. However, bad products or products with a niche appeal can suffer because the propaganda is negative or the size of the target audience is limited to the point where every lost sale cant be replaced. Other studies have come to the conclusion that over 80% or 90% of the people who pirate the products wouldnt buy it anyway and therefore the loss in sales is very limited. A recently conducted study in North America did find that the money people spend per month on media stays exactly the same no matter if they pirate or not. They buy the products which they value the highest and mostly pirate stuff that they couldnt afford and are not so much interested in anyway. Numerous companies report massive loss of sales due to piracy but dont actually release sales data which makes this hard to confirm.The matter o f the fact is that the effects of piracy are not apparent and it is not currently possible to say if it is a bad thing or not. The data is simply not sufficient for either side of the argument. People hate uncertainty though and thats why everyone argues for one side of the argument only citing studies and data to support their own argument and point of view. The truth is that there is no answer to the question whether piracy is a bad or a good thing. It varies wildly from case to case and no conclusion can be drawn as of yet. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182055#p182055 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read The problem blackbird is none of those studdies really have anything to do with your arguement sinse all of them involve piracy of mainstream games where there will be millions of copies sold either way, and where one persons pirating really goes unnoticed. I can think of two indi developers who have been seriously harmed by piracy who I have personally known and beta tested for, both of them creating accessible games, one indeed completely quit because of it. Think of it this way, the maximum number of copies any accessible game will sell is 1000, also bare in mind anyone developing such games is a hobby developer who has to buy all their components, sounds etc. Thus, the effects are much greater. If your game is going to only sell about 200 copies, then even on a basic mathematical lineup, just one pirate is a pretty big chunk, hence the unforgiving stance of this forum regarding cracks.Btw, rail racer in its first year sold less than 200 copies, and Entombed sold 487 between 2008 and 2010so I am not making this up. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182100#p182100 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Dark, its interesting that you keep treating private messages as somehow within the scope of moderation. Do you not think that PMs are the affairs of the participants? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=182126#p182126 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Im just saying that if PMs do go away, Ill just switch over to email exclusively, but that doesnt detract from any aesthetic or social benefits PMs have, as a value add that members get on signing up, and as a way of facilitating private conversation. Whether this makes PMs different to email is not much of a distinction, as far as Im concerned at any rate, I just think it would be a sad loss. Generally, for various reasons that are already well-known on this forum, PMs are less preferable to email as it stands.Yes, Im talking about filters, and yes, it would be very rude. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181883#p181883 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well as I said, filters wouldnt be an option, especially in e-mail sinse to me that would be a little too Orwellian and beyond the scope of this forum. If I do decide to leave pms disabled its e-mail Ill recommend people use, but Im still not absolutely certain whether that is the best thing to do here or not given the social and aesthetic bennifits of the pm system as an on forum means of private communication. Unfortunately, Sander and Richard seem to be off sinse Ive not got a reply which usually means theyre off at a conference somewhere. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181906#p181906 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Hi.After having read through the topic, something came to my mind:The rules says that cracks are not allowed on this forum, but private messages arent mentioned regarding to cracks. what if people think that private messages isnt a part of the forum? I mean, those are only private messages which wont disturb others. So theres something missing in the rules in my oppinion, depending on how you look at it.Speaking about rules, private messages and moderators: The moderators shouldnt be responsible for the private messages, and this should be mentioned in the rules as well. No one other than the people who sends them can be responsible for the private messages, not even if its a part of the forum. The mail feature where people can send a mail to others using the forum is also a part of the forums features. So if the moderators are responsible for the private messages, they should also be responsible for how the mail feature is use d through the forum.Just my thoughts. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181698#p181698 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Hi Slj. The distinction and the reason Im stating private messages as part of the forum and E-mail not is very simple. Pms are sent from member to member with the forum software.E-mails are sent via your e-mail program and could be done just as well without the forum. If I viewed the pm system as you suggest as not within moderation Id probably choose to leave it disabled on the basis that then the forum is very clearly defined and nothing to do with the forum software would be used to facilitate game piracy.As I said, that people pirate games is inevitable, but if people do that they dont do it on this forum. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181715#p181715 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Hi Slj. The distinction and the reason Im stating private messages as part of the forum and E-mail not is very simple. Pms are sent from member to member with the forum software.E-mails are sent via your e-mail program and could be done just as well without the forum. If I viewed the pm system as you suggest as not within moderation Id probably choose to leave it disabled on the basis that then the forum is very clearly defined and nothing to do with the forum software would be used to facilitate game piracy.As I said, that people pirate games is inevitable, but if people do that they dont do it on this forum.Unfortunately I havent heard back from sander yet so the pm system will stay disabled for the time being. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181715#p181715 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read This really does sound like a very large house of straw to me. As I see it you realistically have two choices:1. Tolerate no misuse of the forum, and disable every private communication method via the forum.2. Accept that misuse will occur, shake your head sadly, and carry on with the knowledge that you can only do so much, but allow all the usual methods of private communication facilitated by the forum.JMO, but remember too that many people choose not to expose their email addresses directly, which effectively puts them at your mercy to filter their messages, so people make an active choice to trust the forum, irrespective of the option not to do so. In light of this Im not sorry that people have that choice--no disrespect intended to you, of course, Dark.Personally, I think if you intend to go through with this insane plan, you should take option 1, which is certain. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181730#p181730 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : arqmeister via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read Im with dark on this one. While this plan may seem kind of crazy on the surface, remember, he says its temporary. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181732#p181732 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well all right, another thought.If theres uncertainty around a database full of incriminating evidence, perhaps we can make certain guarantees. For example, emails relayed are never stored, or PMs expire after a certain time. That might work reasonably well.Im still of the opinion that we should stand up for what is right, and if a prosecutor ever does target this tiny little forum, I would hope a judge caught wind that PMs were private. But yeah, lets consider. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181733#p181733 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well the Legal angle isnt really the point here, particularly sinse most of the time when the law and copywrite come into play its usually just big fat coorporations trying to maintain their monopoly through any means necessary and has gone way beyond the moral need John Swift mentioned of authors and other creative people wanting to protect their work. It is also unlikely that given how small audiogame developers are any would actually lauch a court case against the forum even if they were inclined to.Im more concerned with the ethics of the thing as I said than the law. @Sebby, I dont really see how tampering with the expiration of pms would help. Jo wants a crack, Jo asks Jim, jim sends him one via pm, jo has the crack end of story. It doesnt matter if Jo deletes the pm or not, the point is Jo then has the crack and he got it via the forum. As to tolerating missuse, well that is already necessary in the larger context as I said, however it isnt necessary on this forum as it directly goes against what this forum is for, ie, promotion of and discussion of audiogames. I agree that while we have a pm system there is always going to be a possibility of missuse, and far more possibility of missuse than in the main forum. It is however a question of whether that possibility can be reduced to something acceptable that is what I am trying to find out. if there isnt any software method to reduce this possibility it is then a question of whether a pm system with a rule that pms are not to be used for distributing pirated games is better than no pm system at all, and that is a matter which will need careful considderation if indeed that is the case.@Arqmeister, thanks for understanding the point of this, far too many people seem to be leaping to the wrong conclusion or overblowing this out of proportion to what is actually going on, sinse it is not about all piracy everywh ere, whether people use E-mail to distribute pirated games or what, its purely a matter of the pm system on this forum, a pm system I might add which didnt even exist for the first six years this forum was online. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181735#p181735 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read @Dark: the idea of deleting PMs is that you are not holding evidence of wrongdoing in PMs in the database. Obviously, if this is about imposing ethics then this will not be helpful and in fact may be harmful to your efforts. Clearly, we disagree that you should impose ethics on a PM system. I think that the benefits of the PM system are very clear, when people are using it correctly, and that its very nature requires that it be treated much as any outside communication. If, in your example, Joe and Jim both have email enabled, even if only via the forum email form, then the requirement for PM to share a crack is completely voided, and you have not changed anything by disabling PMs. The only way you can make this work is to either render PMs as email, in which case you have an obligation to destroy them as quickly as possible, or else turn off any facilitation of communication via the forum, in which case, at best, you limit your responsibility to the forum, and at worst actively t ry to prevent other forms of communication (which, thankfully, you are unlikely to try and do ). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181737#p181737 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read As I said, evidence of wrongdoing isnt really the concern here, its insuring that most people who use this forum are using it for the intended purpose.With respect to e-mail, well as I said I dont view e-mail communication as something the forum has durisdiction over sinse it is taken off the forum and uses an outside program, plus even if I did! in some mad craze disable all e-mail communication between members through the forum (a thing which would be quite ridiculous and very harmful), well that doesnt stop people saying Email me on my address at wherever the hell my host is dot whatever and then just continuing anyway. I will say in the past on a couple of occasions I have had people mail me about cracks and this has not affected what happened on the forum.The very fact people have objected this strongly however to pms being disabled clearly shows it has a different status to members than just e-mail exchange, and certainly it is quite possible to have people who communicate by pm but choose to hide their mail address. Your arguement is actually a pretty good one for disabling pms entirely, and then just letting members use e-mail instead for communication and saying well what you do via e-mail is your business, end of story As there are bennifits to the pm system aside from e-mail, particularly for people who want to keep their mail secret, Id rather not go down that route if it can be avoided, however equally I dont want people seeing news and topics about games like Zero site, chatting to the developer, and then going and exchanging copies of the game via pms rather than buying them, effectively using this forum to get pirated games. After all remember were the first place people look for audio games and we have a lot of developers who share news about their new releases here as well as discuss upcoming changes and the like, and I dou bt wed have as many if people were handing around free copies of the games behind the devs backs, after all how many developers report news of their new released games on Klango? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181742#p181742 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : blindndangerous via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read You mean Klango is still alive? I thought that thing died months ago. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181786#p181786 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read Im still on Klango, and from time to time I have seen people mentioning that theyre still using it to exchange free copies or share some kind of tip. I do agree that something needs to be done with either the PM system or the e-mail relay service, as they are technically part of the forum, although Im not sure if the relay service is really a part of the forum at all. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181801#p181801 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well ggf, as I said I dont really think of e-mail as something the forum should be regulating, and that goes for the mail relay as well, indeed it would be relatively easy in the admin pannel to have all members e-mail addresses visible anyway and say just get on with it, I leave the relay to protect people from possible spambots, but that is really the only reason, generally I assume what people do via e-mail is their business and not the forums. Its no different to say not including your own mail address on a message you send someone. Yes, this does potentially mean cracks could be exchanged by e-mail between two forum members, but this would be no different (to return to the coocane example),to two people from Britain going to china and one buying Coacane off the other , hay, there is probably a lets crack games at googlegroups.com type mailing list out there somewhere.As I said, if you categorise pms as basica lly the same as e-mail then Im inclined to stop pms altogether, it is the idea (supported by this discussion), that pms are essentially part of the forum that prompts me to considder some sort of restriction. Myself I tend to think pms are a way for, well private communication between forum members in a safe environment without resorting to external programs or risking privacy of information, which is why I tend to believe they have a place on the forum and thus need some regulation. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181812#p181812 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read As far as I can see, the only thing PM has going for it over email is that its verifiably more reliable, and Ive no doubt people realise that. Indeed, JMO, you should disable PMs, but only if you also disable the relay service, because that way forum members dont have to involve the forum, and theres a penalty--however small, but a penalty--to making yourself available for that kind of exchange. Course, it also completely eliminates private discussion for the privacy-conscious trying to keep their email address hidden, but now the forum isnt being used for exchanging bad stuff, which is what youre after.Email relay is store-and-forward; the forum software passes the message on to a mail server, and then presumably deletes the request (probably never even written to the disk). However, its just as accessible as the PM function, so Im not sure what makes it that much different from PMs except that the message is stored in a loca l database. The threat of counteraction to pirates would be a lot more credible, IMO, if every email address were indeed revealed publicly. Ive no doubt this suggestion will be well-disliked. Now, if were honest, it might actually be doing people a favour to insist that PMs are disabled, and the email relay left running, because it would increase the general level of email reliability (a few people on this forum still have bad email addresses). So, if thats your plan, go for it, although it wont IMO change the landscape of misuse. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181830#p181830 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read As I said Sebby it wasnt to change the missuse generally so much as it was to stop people using the forum for exchange of cracks. I dont particularly care where the forum server is on the mail question, sinse to me the forum relay is just a privacy fix nothing more not an alternative for e-mail the way pms are, so if I was going to disable pms entirely Id probably still leave the relay just to protect people from spambots. Indeed, I do wonder if perhaps that would be the best all around solution to the problem sinse it would clearly deliniate what was or was not forum business and insure that the forum was being used for what it is intended for. Then again, peoples very strong reaction to effectively that state of affairs (which is what is happening now albeit temporarily), indicates people do see some advantages to pms which e-mail, either publically or by relay doesnt have. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181831#p181831 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Interesting thoughts.To be honest, Dark, ultimately what you choose to do is more or less at your discretion, but I couldnt live with even such a trifling technical inconvenience. You can, in fact, decide what gets sent in email via the forum, either at the time the email is sent via the form, or by disabling any forum involvement. I appreciate the intent here, I really do, I just think you need to be consistent.Myself, personally, I think PMs are just another nice feature of the forum, whose loss would be a great shame, a death in the family, and a testament to the might of evil deeds, but I could live without them. I dont agree with the decision, but go ahead, Ill live. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181835#p181835 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Im not sure what you mean by decide what gets sent in E-mail by the forum unless you mean filters, and to be honest not only would that option be rather unfair to members but it also wouldnt work. Your listing of pms as A feature of the forum does imply the difference between that and e-mail as I said. Ultimately Im not sure which is the correct choice here, if Sander indeed cant come up with any way of making Pms at least vaguely more secure. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181843#p181843 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Moderation! I am moving this topic to the site and forum feedback area. I only stuck it in General game discussion to insure everyone read the announcement and I think everyone has done. I always intended to move it. Feel free to carry on replying as usual. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181853#p181853 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Moderation! I am moving this topic to the site and forum feedback area. I only stuck it in General game discussion to insure everyone read the announcement and I think everyone has done, it was always the intention that it be moved after a few days whether people replied or not.Feel free to carry on replying as usual. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181853#p181853 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read As I said, evidence of wrongdoing isnt really the concern here, its insuring that most people who use this forum are using it for the intended purpose.With respect to e-mail, well as I said I dont view e-mail communication as something the forum has durisdiction over sinse it is taken off the forum and uses an outside program, plus even if I did! in some mad craze disable all e-mail communication between members through the forum (a thing which would be quite ridiculous and very harmful), well that doesnt stop people saying Email me on my address at wherever the hell my host is dot whatever and then just continuing anyway. I will say in the past on a couple of occasions I have had people mail me about cracks and this has not affected what happened on the forum.The very fact people have objected this strongly however to pms being disabled clearly shows it has a different status to members than just e-mail exchange, and certainly it is quite possible to have people who communicate by pm but choose to hide their mail address. Your arguement is actually a pretty good one for disabling pms entirely, and then just letting members use e-mail instead for communication and saying well what you do via e-mail is your business, end of story As there are bennifits to the pm system aside from e-mail, particularly for people who want to keep their mail secret, Id rather not go down that route if it can be avoided, however equally I dont want people seeing news and topics about games like Zero site, chatting to the developer, and then going and exchanging copies of the game via pms rather than buying them, effectively using this forum to get pirated games. After all remember were the first place people look for audio games and we have a lot of developers who share news about their new releases here as well as discuss upcoming changes and the like, and I dou bt wed have as many if people were handing around free copies of the games behind the devs backs, after all how many developers report news of their new released games on Klango? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181742#p181742 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : blindndangerous via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read You mean Klango is still alive? I thought that thing died months ago. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181786#p181786 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read As I said Sebby it wasnt to change the missuse generally so much as it was to stop people using the forum for exchange of cracks. I dont particularly care where the forum server is on the mail question, sinse to me the forum relay is just a privacy fix nothing more not an alternative for e-mail the way pms are, so if I was going to disable pms entirely Id probably still leave the relay just to protect people from spambots. Indeed, I do wonder if perhaps that would be the best all around solution to the problem sinse it would clearly deliniate what was or was not forum business and insure that the forum was being used for what it is intended for. Then again, peoples very strong reaction to effectively that state of affairs (which is what is happening now albeit temporarily), indicates people do see some advantages to pms which e-mail, either publically or by relay doesnt have. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181831#p181831 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Interesting thoughts.To be honest, Dark, ultimately what you choose to do is more or less at your discretion, but I couldnt live with even such a trifling technical inconvenience. You can, in fact, decide what gets sent in email via the forum, either at the time the email is sent via the form, or by disabling any forum involvement. I appreciate the intent here, I really do, I just think you need to be consistent.Myself, personally, I think PMs are just another nice feature of the forum, whose loss would be a great shame, a death in the family, and a testament to the might of evil deeds, but I could live without them. I dont agree with the decision, but go ahead, Ill live. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181835#p181835 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read As far as I can see, the only thing PM has going for it over email is that its verifiably more reliable, and Ive no doubt people realise that. Indeed, JMO, you should disable PMs, but only if you also disable the relay service, because that way forum members dont have to involve the forum, and theres a penalty--however small, but a penalty--to making yourself available for that kind of exchange. Course, it also completely eliminates private discussion for the privacy-conscious trying to keep their email address hidden, but now the forum isnt being used for exchanging bad stuff, which is what youre after.Email relay is store-and-forward; the forum software passes the message on to a mail server, and then presumably deletes the request (probably never even written to the disk). However, its just as accessible as the PM function, so Im not sure what makes it that much different from PMs except that the message is stored in a loca l database. The threat of counteraction to pirates would be a lot more credible, IMO, if every email address were indeed revealed publicly. Ive no doubt this suggestion will be well-disliked. Now, if were honest, it might actually be doing people a favour to insist that PMs are disabled, and the email relay left running, because it would increase the general level of email reliability (a few people on this forum still have bad email addresses). So, if thats your plan, go for it, although it wont IMO change the landscape of misuse. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181830#p181830 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read Im still on Klango, and from time to time I have seen people mentioning that theyre still using it to exchange free copies or share some kind of tip. I do agree that something needs to be done with either the PM system or the e-mail relay service, as they are technically part of the forum, although Im not sure if the relay service is really a part of the forum at all. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181801#p181801 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Hi Slj. The distinction and the reason Im stating private messages as part of the forum and E-mail not is very simple. Pms are sent from member to member with the forum software.E-mails are sent via your e-mail program and could be done just as well without the forum. If I viewed the pm system as you suggest as not within moderation Id probably choose to leave it disabled on the basis that then the forum is very clearly defined and nothing to do with the forum software would be used to facilitate game piracy.As I said, that people pirate games is inevitable, but if people do that they dont do it on this forum.Unfortunately I havent heard back from sander yet so the pm system will stay disabled for the time being. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181715#p181715 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : arqmeister via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read Im with dark on this one. While this plan may seem kind of crazy on the surface, remember, he says its temporary. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181732#p181732 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read @Dark: the idea of deleting PMs is that you are not holding evidence of wrongdoing in PMs in the database. Obviously, if this is about imposing ethics then this will not be helpful and in fact may be harmful to your efforts. Clearly, we disagree that you should impose ethics on a PM system. I think that the benefits of the PM system are very clear, when people are using it correctly, and that its very nature requires that it be treated much as any outside communication. If, in your example, Joe and Jim both have email enabled, even if only via the forum email form, then the requirement for PM to share a crack is completely voided, and you have not changed anything by disabling PMs. The only way you can make this work is to either render PMs as email, in which case you have an obligation to destroy them as quickly as possible, or else turn off any facilitation of communication via the forum, in which case, at best, you limit your responsibility to the forum, and at worst actively t ry to prevent other forms of communication (which, thankfully, you are unlikely to try and do ). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181737#p181737 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Im not sure what you mean by decide what gets sent in E-mail by the forum unless you mean filters, and to be honest not only would that option be rather unfair to members but it also wouldnt work. Your listing of pms as A feature of the forum does imply the difference between that and e-mail as I said. Ultimately Im not sure which is the correct choice here, if Sander indeed cant come up with any way of making Pms at least vaguely more secure. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181843#p181843 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read This really does sound like a very large house of straw to me. As I see it you realistically have two choices:1. Tolerate no misuse of the forum, and disable every private communication method via the forum.2. Accept that misuse will occur, shake your head sadly, and carry on with the knowledge that you can only do so much, but allow all the usual methods of private communication facilitated by the forum.JMO, but remember too that many people choose not to expose their email addresses directly, which effectively puts them at your mercy to filter their messages, so people make an active choice to trust the forum, irrespective of the option not to do so. In light of this Im not sorry that people have that choice--no disrespect intended to you, of course, Dark.Personally, I think if you intend to go through with this insane plan, you should take option 1, which is certain. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181730#p181730 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well all right, another thought.If theres uncertainty around a database full of incriminating evidence, perhaps we can make certain guarantees. For example, emails relayed are never stored, or PMs expire after a certain time. That might work reasonably well.Im still of the opinion that we should stand up for what is right, and if a prosecutor ever does target this tiny little forum, I would hope a judge caught wind that PMs were private. But yeah, lets consider. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181733#p181733 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well the Legal angle isnt really the point here, particularly sinse most of the time when the law and copywrite come into play its usually just big fat coorporations trying to maintain their monopoly through any means necessary and has gone way beyond the moral need John Swift mentioned of authors and other creative people wanting to protect their work. It is also unlikely that given how small audiogame developers are any would actually lauch a court case against the forum even if they were inclined to.Im more concerned with the ethics of the thing as I said than the law. @Sebby, I dont really see how tampering with the expiration of pms would help. Jo wants a crack, Jo asks Jim, jim sends him one via pm, jo has the crack end of story. It doesnt matter if Jo deletes the pm or not, the point is Jo then has the crack and he got it via the forum. As to tolerating missuse, well that is already necessary in the larger context as I said, however it isnt necessary on this forum as it directly goes against what this forum is for, ie, promotion of and discussion of audiogames. I agree that while we have a pm system there is always going to be a possibility of missuse, and far more possibility of missuse than in the main forum. It is however a question of whether that possibility can be reduced to something acceptable that is what I am trying to find out. if there isnt any software method to reduce this possibility it is then a question of whether a pm system with a rule that pms are not to be used for distributing pirated games is better than no pm system at all, and that is a matter which will need careful considderation if indeed that is the case.@Arqmeister, thanks for understanding the point of this, far too many people seem to be leaping to the wrong conclusion or overblowing this out of proportion to what is actually going on, sinse it is not about all piracy everywh ere, whether people use E-mail to distribute pirated games or what, its purely a matter of the pm system on this forum, a pm system I might add which didnt even exist for the first six years this forum was online. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181735#p181735 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Moderation! I am moving this topic to the site and forum feedback area. I only stuck it in General game discussion to insure everyone read the announcement and I think everyone has done, it was always the intention that it be moved after a few days whether people replied or not.Feel free to carry on replying as usual. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181853#p181853 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well ggf, as I said I dont really think of e-mail as something the forum should be regulating, and that goes for the mail relay as well, indeed it would be relatively easy in the admin pannel to have all members e-mail addresses visible anyway and say just get on with it, I leave the relay to protect people from possible spambots, but that is really the only reason, generally I assume what people do via e-mail is their business and not the forums. Its no different to say not including your own mail address on a message you send someone. Yes, this does potentially mean cracks could be exchanged by e-mail between two forum members, but this would be no different (to return to the coocane example),to two people from Britain going to china and one buying Coacane off the other , hay, there is probably a lets crack games at googlegroups.com type mailing list out there somewhere.As I said, if you categorise pms as basica lly the same as e-mail then Im inclined to stop pms altogether, it is the idea (supported by this discussion), that pms are essentially part of the forum that prompts me to considder some sort of restriction. Myself I tend to think pms are a way for, well private communication between forum members in a safe environment without resorting to external programs or risking privacy of information, which is why I tend to believe they have a place on the forum and thus need some regulation. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181812#p181812 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : mario navarro via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read hi Nocturnuswaw man I was blown away with all that your philosophy ...but what a great post ... you are philosopher or what?thanks Nocturnuscheers.. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181608#p181608 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : blindndangerous via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read [[wow]] Dark. Way to punish all of us for one person that came directly to you. Im with Salem, Athlon and post 3. Have the rules been translated to other languages? Ive seen other forums do this. Youll never stop piracy Dark and to punish all of us for some ones mistake is ridiculous. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181630#p181630 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : jaybird via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read Yeah you could filter for specific words, but not only would you be dealing with false positives, violating peoples privacy in the process, but the people who, for whatever reason, wanted to keep discussing illegal copying of software via private messages would figure out ways of obscuring specific words or phrases, so the filters would never catch them. Maybe theyd privately agree to write their messages .sdrawkcab or maybe ddoouubbllee eeaacchh lleeeerr or use a substitution cypher, inrtoduce dekivetatd ty0pofgraphial or speling errers, etc. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181485#p181485 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well a lot of points. Firstly, to be brutally honest this has bugger all to do with us law, uk law, international law, or any dam other sort of law. This is to do with supporting developers pure and simple. Nobody would get a ban on this forum for say discussing copying cds or audiobooks, as the Sitefaq says, however games are a special case as per the purpose of this forum.Second, I repeat, I did not disable private messages entirely as a punishment to all and sundry, I removed them until a system can be thougt to at least minimize their use for passing around cracks. This will not be some sort of filter or checking private messages (sinse both as stated would be impractical and negate the purpose of private messages). I am inclined to the idea of making private messages restricted to longer time members who we can be relatively certain know what the rules are and that game cracking is not allowed, that would of course not be a perfect system but it would at least al low a little restriction.Had I found such options in the admin settings the pm system would already be back up now. The fact that some new software probably needs installing is the only reason it might be disabled for a while.Third Trajectory, for your information two of the instances of members sending me pms asking for cracks were in 2013, one in 2012, so it is a more recent occurance. I also take note of the fact that only those members who are not fully aware of the rules would pm the administrator asking for cracks, so there is no knowing what those aware of the rule but wishing to avoid it might have done.I will also note that this decision, like most of the decisions I make as an admin was not motivated by anger. Had Mike-tan E-mailed me privately or contacted me via skype (if I used it), or some other method, Id have expressed my opinion about cracks, but nothing wouldve happened on the forum sinse that would be outside the forum, the sa me way a police officer might go to China, see people taking coacane and verbally object but would have no power to arrest them. Indeed, this has also happened in the past. Had this decision been motivated by anger, pms would be gone for good and Id just say to people tough luck! if children cant play nicely you dont have any toys at all Which is not what I am saying. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181496#p181496 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well a lot of points. Firstly, to be brutally honest this has bugger all to do with us law, uk law, international law, or any dam other sort of law. This is to do with supporting developers pure and simple. Nobody would get a ban on this forum for say discussing copying cds or audiobooks, as the Sitefaq says, however games are a special case as per the purpose of this forum.Second, I repeat, I did not disable private messages entirely as a punishment to all and sundry, I removed them until a system can be thougt to at least minimize their use for passing around cracks. This will not be some sort of filter or checking private messages (sinse both as stated would be impractical and negate the purpose of private messages). I am inclined to the idea of making private messages restricted to longer time members who we can be relatively certain know what the rules are and that game cracking is not allowed, that would of course not be a perfect system but it would at least al low a little restriction.Had I found such options in the admin settings the pm system would already be back up now. The fact that some new software probably needs installing is the only reason it might be disabled for a while.Third Trajectory, for your information two of the instances of members sending me pms asking for cracks were in 2013, one in 2012, so it is a more recent occurance. I also take note of the fact that only those members who are not fully aware of the rules would pm the administrator asking for cracks, so there is no knowing what those aware of the rule but wishing to avoid it might have done.I will also note that this decision, like most of the decisions I make as an admin was not motivated by anger. Had Mike-tan E-mailed me privately or contacted me via skype (if I used it), or some other method, Id have expressed my opinion about cracks, but nothing wouldve happened on the forum sinse that would be outside the forum, the sa me way a police officer might go to China, see people taking coacane and verbally object but would have no power to arrest them. Indeed, this has also happened in the past. Had this decision been motivated by anger, pms would be gone for good and Id just say to people Tough luck! And leave the pm system disabled perminantly which is not the case. If there isnt a technical solution, pms probably will be back with an extra addition to the site faq stating that discussion of cracks via pm is not allowed and anyone found engaging in such wil be in very dire trouble. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181496#p181496 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Dark wrote: If there isnt a technical solution, pms probably will be back with an extra addition to the site faq stating that discussion of cracks via pm is not allowed and anyone found engaging in such wil be in very dire trouble.This one sounds like the best solution, even though it still doesnt have the desired effect, but a lot of other solutions wont have this either. Perhaps there are other ways, we should all collectively think on that. But just wondering, if you say now that you might re-enable them even if there are no technical solutions to be found, then why disable them in the first place? I do think that it really doesnt do very much harm to just keep them enabled for however long it takes to find a solution, or no solution at all. Now if they wouldnt be enabled again I could understand it but if they are going to be turned on anyway then you might as well not disable them at all.But perhaps I just dont understand this enough and maybe we should just think of ideas to change the PM system, although I dont really have very high expectations for a decent solution. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181507#p181507 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well Arjan I was just exploring alternatives, it is also possible that pms will be perminantly disabled and people will be recommended to use E-mail instead. It all depends upon what solutions are available and what is eventually decided upon. This is what I mean about the system being in revision given the clear abuses of that system. Before everyone jumps on the band waggon and starts up with the wailing and gnashing of teeth and complaints upon complaints, note I said possible! not likely. I disabled the system sinse it is clearly in need of some review, nothing more nothing less. As I said if Id already found an acceptable option it would be back now. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181509#p181509 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well Arjan I was just exploring alternatives, it is also possible that pms will be perminantly disabled and people will be recommended to use E-mail instead. It all depends upon what solutions are available and what is eventually decided upon. This is what I mean about the system being in revision given the clear abuses of that system. Before everyone jumps on the band waggon and starts up with the wailing and gnashing of teeth and complaints upon complaints, note I said possible! not likely. I disabled the system sinse it is clearly in need of some review, nothing more nothing less. As I said if Id already found an acceptable option it would be back now. no decision will be made rashly or before any options have been considdered, however something clearly does need doing as I said. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181509#p181509 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well Arjan I was just exploring alternatives, it is also possible that pms will be perminantly disabled and people will be recommended to use E-mail instead. It all depends upon what solutions are available and what is eventually decided upon. This is what I mean about the system being in revision given the clear abuses of that system. Before everyone jumps on the band waggon and starts up with the wailing and gnashing of teeth and complaints upon complaints, note I said possible!I disabled the system sinse it is clearly in need of some review, nothing more nothing less. As I said if Id already found an acceptable option it would be back now. no decision will be made rashly or before any options have been considdered, however something clearly does need doing as I said. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181509#p181509 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well Arjan I was just exploring alternatives, it is also possible that pms will be perminantly disabled and people will be recommended to use E-mail instead. It all depends upon what solutions are available and what is eventually decided upon. This is what I mean about the system being in revision given the clear abuses of that system. Before everyone jumps on the band waggon and starts up with the wailing and gnashing of teeth and complaints upon complaints, note I said possible!I disabled the system sinse it is clearly in need of some review, nothing more nothing less. As I said if Id already found an acceptable option it would be back now. no decision will be made rashly or before all possible alternatives have been considdered, however something clearly does need doing as I said. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181509#p181509 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read Hi again,Now we are getting down to business. At last we are getting back on track. Your points are all valuable. HI happened to be showing this to one of my best friends, and Id like to paste what they said in this post.Why are hospital foods usually not good? Jurassic Park is also a bok, which I should read. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181517#p181517 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Hospital food? Jjurassic park? I; am rather confused Ggf, unless your sugesting we get a couple of Velossa Raptors to feed pm pirates too . I would agree this discussion does need to stay focused on the issue at hand and not wander off sinse especially in these sorts of occasions there is extreme danger of a disproportionate response to the issue under discussion. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181520#p181520 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read Hi again,Now we are getting down to business. At last we are getting back on track. Your points are all valuable. I happened to be showing this to one of my best friends, and Id like to paste what they said in this post.I think there are two things they should do. The first is to explain what things are not okay, and then to elaborate in a way that everyone will understand. For example, I am a native speaker of english, but I dont know what cracks mean. I havent played almost any audio games, but still. They should also make sure to explain everything that is not okay to do, like making things that are bad, but also distributing them or using one that someone else has used. The other thing I think they should do is to try to convince people to flag peoples emails and stuff like that if they do anything wrong, and make sure people support the developers getting paid for what they do. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181517#p181517 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read Sorry about that. I had to edit my post once I realised where the mistake was. Sorry for the confusion. O:-) URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181527#p181527 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well Ggf, I unfortunately cant find the page where the rules are written in the admin settings or how to alter but here is what it says about cracks from the faq which is pretty clear, though it says nothing about reporting users who encourage cracks or audio game piracy and so might need editing on that score:9: What are cracks and where can I get them? Cracks means any way of playing a commercial game without paying for it. This could be done in several different ways, but however its done, its not done on here! anyone found discussing cracks, posting cracks or asking for cracks will be in very serious trouble.10: But why are cracks bad? after all I dont have the money to afford those expensive games. Whereas mainstream graphical games on consoles like the Xbox or wii are produced by companies who can put millions into development, audio games are produced only by small independent companies, often just o ne person working on his/her own. Apart from all the time and trouble spent writing the game itself, (time which the developr would much rather likely be spending doing other work or leisure type things), producing accessible games costs! people money. Buying sounds, hiring voice actors, buying development libraries, none of these are free. Though some devs do! produce free games, or exist on donation only this is their choice, and they still have the problem of how they finance their development. indeed, most of the best sounding and landmark accessible games weve seen have been commercial.Since very few people will be buying accessible games, every dollar/pound/euro counts, , so cracking the game rather than paying for it really and seriously! threatens the developrs ability to create more games in the future. Remember, all our developrs work part time, in their spare time on accessible games and usually will not make much of a prophet, inde ed its doubtful whether anyone could! even make enough to support themselves through developing and selling accessible games.For all of these reasons, audiogames.net is totally, utterly and absolutely against all cracks of accessible games, and anyone found asking for, giving out, or in any way associated with cracks will very likely be banned from the forum. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181531#p181531 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Trajectory via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read @Dark, were talking about an average of one incident per year based on the data you posted. To be honest Id have expected the numbers to be a lot worse than that.I was fully expecting for you to say that they all took place over the last couple of months but since thats not the case this sounds even more illogical.I can say for 100 percent sure that a solution wont be found. You could decide to shut it down permanently but therell be the same amount of software piracy between members going on by email etc. Heck, you might even observe an influx of public cracking-related posts.The best you could do is word filters that block sending of private messages should sertain words be found, but youd probably have to develop it yourself as PunBB is a pretty lightwait system and I dont remember coming across such a feature.Maybe Ill install a dummy Punbb forum and see if its actually possible to block pms that con tain specific trigger words but I doubt its there.Is audiogames.net opposed to installing unofficial extensions/mods? You might find something if you explore that avenue but you might find bugs at the same time. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181547#p181547 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well of course, these were only the incidents where a member asked an admin which is pretty much the easiest thing to catch by a long shot, so that doesnt really say much about the amount of piracy in general because most people will know better. Heck if everyone asked the admins first then we probably wouldnt have a piracy issue at all because all of the crackers would be picked off one by one So there probably is a good reason to change the system although I still have my doubts about whether or not it will be effective. Oh well, at least we can say we tried I suppose. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181552#p181552 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Thanks Arjan, that is the point exactly.I also repeat, what people do by e-mail is not my concern, its what people do by pm that is the issue, sinse pms are part of the forum system, while e-mail is independent. Oh, and yes I am quite aware that someone could get another persons mail address off the forum and then exchange cracks with them by mail, again however, this is something that there is no way to regulate and trying would be ridiculous. Filters are notoriously bad, and I dont believe that option would do anything to solve the problem. As I said Im personally in favour of making access to pms only available to members we can be relatively sure have read the rules and are slightly trust worthy to begin with. Of course this is not a perfect system either but short of leaving pms disabled I dont believe there is one. If this is not possible it will be a matter of considdering whether a rule revision and trusti ng members to report pms that violate those rules is better than living without pms. That is a question I do not myself know the answer to at this moment and one I have not reached a decision about. I am well aware what the feelings of people are on this matter from reading this threadd, but whether that balances possible abbuses and whether all our members are trust worthy in essentially reporting bad pms is something that needs considdering, sinse as Arjan said, if three people are willing to pm an administrator, how many people are exchanging cracks via pm privately? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181556#p181556 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Thanks Arjan, that is the point exactly.I also repeat, what people do by e-mail is not my concern, its what people do by pm that is the issue, sinse pms are part of the forum system, while e-mail is independent. Oh, and yes I am quite aware that someone could get another persons mail address off the forum and then exchange cracks with them by mail, again however, this is something that there is no way to regulate and trying would be ridiculous. Filters are notoriously bad, and I dont believe that option would do anything to solve the problem. As I said Im personally in favour of making access to pms only available to members we can be relatively sure have read the rules and are slightly trust worthy to begin with. Of course this is not a perfect system either but short of leaving pms disabled I dont believe there is one. If this is not possible it will be a matter of considdering whether a rule revision and trusti ng members to report pms that violate those rules is better than living without pms. That is a question I do not myself know the answer to at this moment and one I have not reached a decision about. I am well aware what the feelings of people are on this matter from reading this threadd, though I would appreciate hearing the views of someone who actually develops games and risks their work being stolen in this way. Whether the convenience of having a private message system balances possible abbuses and whether all our members are trust worthy in essentially reporting bad pms is something that needs considdering, sinse as Arjan said, if three people are willing to pm an administrator, how many people are exchanging cracks via pm privately? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181556#p181556 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Thanks Arjan, that is the point exactly.I also repeat, what people do by e-mail is not my concern, its what people do by pm that is the issue, sinse pms are part of the forum system, while e-mail is independent. Oh, and yes I am quite aware that someone could get another persons mail address off the forum and then exchange cracks with them by mail, again however, this is something that there is no way to regulate and trying would be ridiculous. Filters are notoriously bad, and I dont believe that option would do anything to solve the problem. As I said Im personally in favour of making access to pms only available to members we can be relatively sure have read the rules and are slightly trust worthy to begin with. Of course this is not a perfect system either but short of leaving pms disabled I dont believe there is one. If this is not possible it will be a matter of considdering whether a rule revision and trusti ng members to report pms that violate those rules is better than living without pms. That is a question I do not myself know the answer to at this moment and one I have not reached a decision about. I am well aware what the feelings of people are on this matter from reading this threadd, though I would appreciate hearing the views of someone who actually develops games and risks their work being stolen in this way. Whether the convenience of having a private message system balances possible abbuses and whether all our members are trust worthy in essentially reporting bad pms is something that needs considdering, sinse as Arjan said, if three people are willing to pm an administrator, how many people are exchanging cracks via pm privately?I will also say that twice last year I was contacted by members about someone else sending them pms asking for cracks as well as the people contacting me, as it turned out one of these occasions was a member who also posted about cracks on the main board, and another was a member who had pmd me, which is again why i am concerned what people are up to with private messaging. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181556#p181556 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Yes, I agree too. If people will ask about cracks, they can ask everyware, not only in the PMs.And I completely agree with Keyisfull and Haramir. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181349#p181349 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : jaybird via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read I see both sides. I know Dark, as a moderator, is responsible for trying to insure that cracks dont get shared or distributed via the forum. This is a serious thing, and could possibly get the entire site shut down by relevant authorities or hosting providers if it got bad enough. On the other hand, this is yet another case of punishing the many for the actions of the few. Not only that, but just because PMs are disabled doesnt mean all private discussion about cracks is going to stop, just like that. There are lots of other ways for consenting people to privately communicate with each other, instant messages, Twitter direct messages, Facebook, Email, even encrypted Email if they want to make really sure their conversations cant be intercepted, etc. So its not going to be, Oh well, Dark turned off the private message feature, so I guess that means we cant share cracks any more. One has nothing to do with the other. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181350#p181350 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read I think people are rather over reacting here. @Roro, it is not about getting in trouble with the authorities. We discourage audio game cracks for the above stated reasons which has nothing to do with copywrite or anything else, its to do with supporting developers. I have known developers utterly quit because their stuff was being pirated more often than it was bought.As I said, the pm system isnt gone for good, it is just that I do feel some actions need considdering sinse this is the third time someone has asked me for cracks over pm and I am not certain how much of that behaviour goes on otherwise, short of reading everyones messages. This is not a perminant solution, pms are not gone for good, they are just out until we can think of a way of minimizing their miss use.As to Mike-tan, I did exchange several pms and made absolutely certain that he wanted the full version of zero site without paying. That is just not acceptable. I did considder that he might not have read the rules, which is why he got a miner ban of two months rather than longer, however to be honest if a person has good enough English to be on this forum, they should have good enough English to understand no piracy of audiogames It is not as if that is hidden. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181361#p181361 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read I think people are rather over reacting here. @Roro, it is not about getting in trouble with the authorities. We discourage audio game cracks for the above stated reasons which has nothing to do with copywrite or anything else, its to do with supporting developers. I have known developers utterly quit because their stuff was being pirated more often than it was bought.As I said, the pm system isnt gone for good, it is just that I do feel some actions need considdering sinse this is the third time someone has asked me for cracks over pm and I am not certain how much of that behaviour goes on, short of reading everyones messages. This is not a perminant solution, pms are not gone for good, they are just out until we can think of a way of minimizing their miss use.As to Mike-tan, I did exchange several pms and made absolutely certain that he wanted the full version of zero s ite without paying. That is just not acceptable. I did considder that he might not have read the rules, which is why he got a miner ban of two months rather than longer, however to be honest if a person has good enough English to be on this forum, they should have good enough English to understand no piracy of audiogames It is not as if that is hidden, and really someone shouldnt be pirating games anyway.People seem to think the no piracy thing is some sort of arbitrary rule. it isnt. This forum is called audiogames! dot net we exist to promote audiogames, and that is why its important to discourage things that harm developers. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181361#p181361 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : jaybird via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read Again, I can see how not having a good grasp of the English language could be a problem. Possibly not in this particular case, if you confirmed that a crack was absolutely what he wanted. But to a new member who isnt very good with English, reading the Rules page, this is what they get with regards to cracks:4) Posting warez, cracks, serials or hacking tips is not allowed.Sounds perfectly reasonable to you and me, but it might not make much sense to a newbie who doesnt have a good grasp of English. If I were writing the rules, I might say something like:Do not post or ask for registration keys, serial numbers, cracks, or any other way of obtaining commercial software without paying for it.Then go into the bit about how audio game developers dont make much money, every cracked copy is that much less money theyll make, etc. In my example, I said software, not games, to eliminate the technicality that might a llow someone to think, Oh, I cant ask about a Shades of Doom crack, but sharing my Jaws crack is just fine! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181368#p181368 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Dark, I agree with you, but if people want cracks, theyll ask everyware. Again, Ill read the FAQ and the rools to see if Im missing something. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181369#p181369 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Ah, I now read this:4) Posting warez, cracks, serials or hacking tips is not allowed. So it depends on what you mean by posting: is it posting publicly or what? It needs some clarifications. Im not asking for cracks, and I wont do here. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181370#p181370 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Regardless of the other points raised on this topic, many of them valid and from both sides, Im not sure Im very happy with my voice being redacted on this forum, even if only in PMs. Suppose I had PMs when you shut them down? People wishing to reach me should, of course, always prefer email for the usual well-known reasons on these forums, but Im sure the moderators of this forum wouldnt want to prohibit communication among innocent people, even if accidentally or as a side-effect of a ban on less welcome forms of conversation. You should consider yourselves immunised against the consequences of merely carrying messages between people, much as a communications provider is, especially for messages intended to be private, and restrict your moderation to the public portions of the forums, where the public good is expected to be upheld for the benefit of everybody. And to be clear, I think that the job the mods do is most awesome and is to be commended for kee ping this forum on track and civilised; we just wouldnt have such a great community without them. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181380#p181380 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read The war on piracy is no easier to win than the war on terrorism. Certainly we can do our part, but we will find ourselves waging a war we will never win, because as long as a system is in place, someone will find a way to disassemble and reassemble that system to meet their needs.Im sorry, Dark, but I have to side with the others who have stated that this might be going overboard on various counts. For one thing, English should not be a barrier that keeps people, especially blind and vision impaired people from looking for games. To say that ones English should be good enough to read the rules and be able to understand them in their entirety when certain concepts do not exist in other languages is ridiculous. I cannot explain sin to people in India because the concept of sin does not truly exist in that culture or in their language, just as explaining a law suit requires slightly different wording in Spanish. Looking for the w ord formulate by using a translation tool doesnt always yield precise results, and Im certain there are words that other languages simply dont have words for, yet they are words we use regularly in English. While you might consider a person knowledgeable enough in a particular language to discuss concepts with other people in said language, saying they are knowledgeable enough to understand your phrasing just because you understand it or because other people they have spoken to understand it is expecting a bit much, since in all reality the way they are learning English or having it translated to them might actually not be presenting them with a precise understanding. We cant know how many people are using software for interpretation purposes and how that software is translating our wording, but I do know from being fairly fluent in Spanish myself that using google or some other corporations aplications to translate my writing to Spanish fro m English is not something I feel very comfortable doing, particularly since, Ive seen it in action and it doesnt produce anything worth keeping.Next, disabling the PM system because a couple of people you know of have misused it suggests that you do not trust the rest of the community to make better judgements. if that is the case, then you might as well shut down the entire sites communication ccapabilities, since you and I both know that there is no easy way to moderate all communication taking place on this forum or anywhere else allowed, and for all we know there is probably a post buried deep within our topics that does point people to an illegal download of a game. Unless you know of a way that I dont to keep track and tell me for certain that there isnt such a post, killing PMs is not something you can truly justify by saying you want to keep illegal game distrivution off the site, since, as you have also stated, m oderating all messages is impractical. I doubt you go through the forum with a fine toothed comb every day, and Im pretty sure you dont check every single new post that shows up either. If Im wrong, Ill certainly appologise, but if that holds true, then there is no way of saying something hasnt slipped by you, or me, or anyone else moderating the site, as I can honestly say that I dont check every single post that comes through, because I dont always have the time, energy, patience, or the attention span, and since some topics generate dozens of posts on a daily basis such a thing would be out of the question anyway. That leaves us at the mercy of the community, trusting that if someone sees something they will notify us by the report option or some other means, as was the case with the various cosmos database entries that popped up on the forum that I have moderated. I didnt know or have any way of knowing they would spin out of control, and until I was alerted on twitter via direct message by one of our users I did not act upon them.I believe like you do; I understand and whole heartedly agree with your position entirely, that because we are such a small community it is rather shameful and in all reality unacceptable and despicable to pirate games that developers work hard on for our sake, but there is only so much we can do, and stamping out things to try and help out when it comes to waging that war, things that provide services that others depend on regularly is not a way to endear us to the community. We have our responsibility, and we must carry it out diligently, but it is not ours entirely.This is probably going to come across as a stab towards developers, which is a sad thing since I dont intend for it to, but Id also like to point out that this requires a bit of responsibility on their part as well. As previously stated, we can d o our part, but safeguarding a product should definitely be a priority on the part of the creator. People design houses with the knowledge and understanding that they will not ever truly be able to keep threats out, but to minimize
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read I think this debate is going way out of hand. I am quite aware that any peace of software can be pirated, that there is nothing stoping someone going off this forum and finding a crack, an illegal copy or whatever. That however isnt my concern. My concern is what happens on this forum.Think of it this way, there are some parts of the world where selling coacane is quite legal, and it is quite possible for someone to leave Britain, go to columbia or china or whereever and buy and sell drugs. That doesnt however invalidate the law in Britain or the fact that Coacane has been deemed a harmful substance whos sale should be prohibited. Yes, there are certainly people in Britain who sell and use coacane, but does that mean the police should say oh well maybe we should just tell everyone its quite okay then? Like the British police on this matter, Im not concerned either with what goes on off the forum or elsewhere, sinse you are absolutely right, no system is perfect, however sinse this forum exists for promotion of audiogames, those who hinder audiogame development by cracking or pirating them should be prohibited from taking part in this forum.With the pms as I said, I am not disabling the system forever or suggesting that we should, I just wanted to make it clear to people thatt just because you dont exchange cracks or pirated software in public, doesnt mean you should be doing it in private, it shouldnt be done on this forum at all! I will have a look at the admin settings today and see if there is anything I can set to pms that might help, for example restricting the use of pms to members with more than a certain number of posts so that we can be relatively sure members are okay and understand the rules before they start using pms. I agree, restricting pms entirely just to solve the problem would be a bad thing, think of this more as a revision than anything else.Regarding English and the rules, well Im afraid I do have to disagree sinse this is a concept which is fairly clear in whatever language you use, and I specifically wrote the site faq to say very clearly, no cracks, no piracy, no trying to get games without paying.I will indeed have a look at the basic site rules to see if this could be clearer, but I dont think this is such a reasonable thing to take people to understand, after all every culture has a concept of theft. Which is precisely why I made dam sure via pm that Mike-tan was! indeed asking me for the full version, I asked him if he meant the demo, I asked him if he meant that he wanted the full version without paying etc.I do entirely agree that say in discussion, or values or when someone is expressing their opinions we should show tollerance, but there is only so much lee way for that, and just the same way if I went to India and stole from someone Id be in just as much trouble as if I did it in Britain, irrispective of how good my Hindi Tamul etc was, someone will equally get into trouble if theyre trying to pirate games here wherever they come from. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181390#p181390 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read I think this debate is going way out of hand and far beyond the actual issue under discussion. I am quite aware that any peace of software can be pirated, that there is nothing stoping someone going off this forum and finding a crack, an illegal copy or whatever. That however isnt my concern. My concern is what happens on this forum.Think of it this way, there are some parts of the world where selling coacane is quite legal, and it is quite possible for someone to leave Britain, go to Columbia or China or whereever and buy and sell drugs. That doesnt however invalidate the law in Britain or the fact that Coacane has been deemed a harmful substance whos sale should be prohibited. Yes, there are certainly people in Britain who sell and use coacane, but does that mean the police should say oh well maybe we should just tell everyone its quite okay then?, or well its okay to use Coacane as long as you do it in private?Like the British police on this matter, Im not concerned either with what goes on off the forum or elsewhere, sinse you are absolutely right, no system is perfect, however sinse this forum exists for promotion of audiogames, those who hinder audiogame development by cracking or pirating them should be prohibited from taking part in this forum.With the pms as I said, I am not disabling the system forever or suggesting that we should, I just wanted to make it clear to people that just because you dont exchange cracks or pirated software in public, doesnt mean you should be doing it in private, it shouldnt be done on this forum at all! I will have a look at the admin settings today and also talk to Sander, see if there is anything I can set to pms that might help, for example restricting the use of pms to members with more than a certain number of posts so that we can be relatively sure members are o kay and understand the rules before they start using them. I agree, restricting pms entirely just to solve the problem would be a bad thing, think of this more as a revision than anything else. Regarding English and the rules, well Im afraid I do have to disagree sinse this is a concept which is fairly clear in whatever language you use, and I specifically wrote the site faq to say very clearly, no cracks, no piracy, no trying to get games without paying.I will indeed have a look at the basic site rules to see if this could be clearer, but I dont think this is such an unreasonable thing to take people to understand, after all every culture has a concept of theft. Which is precisely why I made dam sure via pm that Mike-tan was! indeed asking me for the full version, I asked him if he meant the demo, I asked him if he meant that he wanted the full version without paying etc.I do entirely agree that say in discussion, or values or whe n someone is expressing their opinions we should show tollerance, but there is only so much lee way for that, and just the same way if I went to India and stole from someone Id be in just as much trouble as if I did it in Britain, irrispective of how good my Hindi Tamul etc was, someone will equally get into trouble if theyre trying to pirate games irrispective of where they come from. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181390#p181390 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : keyIsFull via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read Dark, to relate your coacane selling analogy to the current situation, you as the police have caught person x selling drugs illegally. Arresting person x is perfectly fine; he was doing something bad. I believe you when you say that you affirmed that Mike Tan was trying to be bad and get a crack for the game, and that he deserves a punishment. The extent of the punishment might be overkill also, but thats beside the argument.Now, back to the coacain thing. Besides arresting the culprit, the cops probably wont do much of anything else related to this incident. There will be more drug sellers to take this guys place; each of them must be dealt with separately. There is, no, blanket, solution. Your disabling of the PM system is an attempt to implement a kind of blanket solution. Its just not right, as others have said, because are locking out innocent people and taking away their freedom of communication. So what if they can email or twitter or sky pe. There are a lot of people on here who dont disclose that information, leaving communication really difficult. Plus these people are all over the world, many dont know English well, and some are not computer power users. Taking away a communication medium like this, shared by everyone, is extremely crippling, as it was a reliable way to communicate with another forumite. It doesnt matter whether its just a temporary measure. Not really. If you attached a time frame to the whole thing, say like in 3 weeks, it might be okay, but you havent, so PM could be disabled indefinitely. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181393#p181393 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read @Dark: while I respect your desire to protect developers from pirates/crackers, ultimately laws follow people and not the other way around, and people dont expect to be presumed guilty. JMO, but imposing limits on the way people use the forum for any reason that is not clearly a problem is not respectful. I hope that whatever you decide to do will not have any noticeable impact on the way people use PMs, that it will be transparent, and that it will be easily justified. Im still personally of the opinion that the best you can do is discourage people, but thats just my opinion. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181419#p181419 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read @KeyIsFullUnfortunately, yes, the cops do take extra measures. This is for example the reason why here in the Netherlands, you arent allowed to bring any bottles or other such containers containing chemicals/liquids with you aboard a plane unless you bought them past the security checkpoint. Most people just bring bottled water, but its designed to prevent people who have tear gas and other such unwelcome things. It inconveniences many but its still there, and probably for good reason.But its probably no good comparing this to other criminal activities, apples and oranges and such.Just had to throw this out there even though On the whole Im not really happy with this change though. Believe me Im all for making it harder on here to discuss cracks also in PMs, but disabling the entire system goes a bit far. And yes Im fully aware of the fact that this is not going to be permanent, but that does not detract from the fact tha t youre hitting a lot of people with this.Also, I definitely think this debate is necessary because we have to find a solution to this. For example I think limiting PMs to users with a certain number of posts isnt a good way to go, especially since recently a lot of developers have popped up who have registered to the forum and one of their first posts being that theyve released something.I think the incident that led to this discussion is pretty justified, the punishment and such. The only thing I have a problem with is disabling PMs. I could give other reasons why I think this needs to be reconsidered but others have pretty much already given them, so Ill not be repetitive and just call it quits for now. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181421#p181421 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read Can there be a way to filter private messages? For example, if the filter thinks you are talking about cracks, it will be either deleted or flagged for a moderator to approve?Other than that, I am thinking that only the forum e-mail should be used with the e-mail relay and eliminate private messaging altogether. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181428#p181428 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read I just had a read over this whole argument. Frankly, I feel like all there exists is a simple binary, when there are in fact several alternatives.First I will start with what I agree with, then what I disagree with, and then what I think could be improved and why.First of all, I agree that the first thing that was needed was to clarify and make certain that the person in question was requesting for something that is considered illegal and or immoral as cracking. Having not done so could have resulted in a major disaster as stated in post no. 2. I agree that there could be a clearer understanding of what terms like cracking, serial numbers, etc means. In fact, I was wondering if the Forum could have a translation feature for those coming from non-English countries. It would be nearly impossible to establish a multi-lingual forum in this situation, but at the same time try to keep the terms simple and not complex so that anyone would be able to understand it no matter th e culture, since all cultures around the world have a simple moral, do not steal from others. I agree that the needed punishment was necessary, though I am beginning to think that people who never reform are impossible to punish, which branches off into another argument that I wont bother starting up. I also agree that finding a blanket solution to end cracking is impossible, though I think it would be just better if people were altruistic as Benjamin Franklin, though sadly, John Locke said himself that people are primarily selfish and they want to compete against one another in making better profits. Therefore, I think cracking games is more of a moral decision and not a legal one, though it is legal because stealing or shop-lifting means you are taking away something without paying for it, whereas if you make copies of something without paying for it, no one will get any money, or have to pay anything. The only time it becomes a legal matter is if a person copied it, modifie d it and sold it with their own tweaks. This becomes a copyright infringement, which is stated in a certain article of the United States constitution, and many other Western countries use the same system. If a person redistributed the games for free, then there is no restriction and the person can modify them at will, but the purpose is to not sell and make a profit that could result in legal wars. As mentioned, developers need to use all the money they can get to pay for their own expenses and whatnot, but again, it would be nicer if the world wasnt so money-hungry. Sadly, I dont think that a solution for this problem wont be found for another hundred years, or maybe never at all. I am thinking that maybe all cultures should be equally tempered to a certain degree so that everyones on the same page, though bringing a whole world to sameness is yet something not foreseeable.Here are the things that I disagree with. I dont think it is necessa ry to have disabled the PM system. If people use it int the wrong manner, its their fault. Now, I do realise that in this particular emergency, we had no choice but to do so because we dont yet have a way of making sure we stay in the boundaries of freedom of speech and respecting others privacy.Now, for the suggestions: Can there be a way to filter private messages? For example, if the filter thinks you are talking about cracks, it will be either deleted or flagged for a moderator to approve?Other than that, I am thinking that only the forum e-mail should be used with the e-mail relay and eliminate private messaging altogether. I rarely used PMs anyhow, so this decision does not affect me in the least.Please be warned, this topic may be edited as new points arise and if I think of more things that I agree, disagree and what can be improved come up. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181428#p181428 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
Re: Important moderation message, please read Well, now theres a question. Should we also have email sent via the forum filtered out? Would it correspond well to PM filtering? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181431#p181431 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read I just had a read over this whole argument. Frankly, I feel like all there exists is a simple binary, when there are in fact several alternatives.First I will start with what I agree with, then what I disagree with, and then what I think could be improved and why. Note: I will not say who I agree or disagree with, so as not to single anyone out. I will just say what I agree or disagree with. Those who are knowledgeable about who said that can do what you want.First of all, I agree that the first thing that was needed was to clarify and make certain that the person in question was requesting for something that is considered illegal and or immoral as cracking. Having not done so could have resulted in a major disaster as stated in post no. 2. I agree that there could be a clearer understanding of what terms like cracking, serial numbers, etc means. In fact, I was wondering if the Forum could have a translation feature for those coming from non-English countries. It would be nearly impossible to establish a multi-lingual forum in this situation, but at the same time try to keep the terms simple and not complex so that anyone would be able to understand it no matter the culture, since all cultures around the world have a simple moral, do not steal from others. I agree that the needed punishment was necessary, though I am beginning to think that people who never reform are impossible to punish, which branches off into another argument that I wont bother starting up. I also agree that finding a blanket solution to end cracking is impossible, though I think it would be just better if people were altruistic as Benjamin Franklin, though sadly, John Locke said himself that people are primarily selfish and they want to compete against one another in making better profits. Therefore, I think cracking games is more of a moral decision and not a legal one, though it is legal because stealing or shop-lifting means you are taking away something without pay ing for it, whereas if you make copies of something without paying for it, no one will get any money, or have to pay anything. The only time it becomes a legal matter is if a person copied it, modified it and sold it with their own tweaks. This becomes a copyright infringement, which is stated in a certain article of the United States constitution, and many other Western countries use the same system. If a person redistributed the games for free, then there is no restriction and the person can modify them at will, but the purpose is to not sell and make a profit that could result in legal wars. As mentioned, developers need to use all the money they can get to pay for their own expenses and whatnot, but again, it would be nicer if the world wasnt so money-hungry. Sadly, I dont think that a solution for this problem wont be found for another hundred years, or maybe never at all. I am thinking that maybe all cultures should be equally tempered to a certain degr ee so that everyones on the same page, though bringing a whole world to sameness is yet something not foreseeable.Here are the things that I disagree with. I dont think it is necessary to have disabled the PM system. If people use it int the wrong manner, its their fault. Now, I do realise that in this particular emergency, we had no choice but to do so because we dont yet have a way of making sure we stay in the boundaries of freedom of speech and respecting others privacy.Now, for the suggestions: Can there be a way to filter private messages and e-mail relayed via the forum? For example, if the filter thinks you are talking about cracks, it will be either deleted or flagged for a moderator to approve?Other than that, I am thinking that only the forum e-mail should be used with the e-mail relay and eliminate private messaging altogether. I rarely used PMs anyhow, so this decision does not affect me in the least.Please be warned, this topic may be edited as new points arise and if I think of more things that I agree, disagree and what can be improved come up. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181428#p181428 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read I just had a read over this whole argument. Frankly, I feel like all there exists is a simple binary, when there are in fact several alternatives.First I will start with what I agree with, then what I disagree with, and then what I think could be improved and why. Note: I will not say who I agree or disagree with, so as not to single anyone out. I will just say what I agree or disagree with. Those who are knowledgeable about who said what it is I pointed can do what you want.First of all, I agree that the first thing that was needed was to clarify and make certain that the person in question was requesting for something that is considered illegal and or immoral as cracking. Having not done so could have resulted in a major disaster as stated in post no. 2. I agree that there could be a clearer understanding of what terms like cracking, serial numbers, etc means. In fact, I was wondering if the Forum could have a translation feature for those coming from non-English cou ntries. It would be nearly impossible to establish a multi-lingual forum in this situation, but at the same time try to keep the terms simple and not complex so that anyone would be able to understand it no matter the culture, since all cultures around the world have a simple moral, do not steal from others. I agree that the needed punishment was necessary, though I am beginning to think that people who never reform are impossible to punish, which branches off into another argument that I wont bother starting up. I also agree that finding a blanket solution to end cracking is impossible, though I think it would be just better if people were altruistic as Benjamin Franklin, though sadly, John Locke said himself that people are primarily selfish and they want to compete against one another in making better profits. Therefore, I think cracking games is more of a moral decision and not a legal one, though it is legal because stealing or shop-lifting means you are taking away somet hing without paying for it, whereas if you make copies of something without paying for it, no one will get any money, or have to pay anything. The only time it becomes a legal matter is if a person copied it, modified it and sold it with their own tweaks. This becomes a copyright infringement, which is stated in a certain article of the United States constitution, and many other Western countries use the same system. If a person redistributed the games for free, then there is no restriction and the person can modify them at will, but the purpose is to not sell and make a profit that could result in legal wars. As mentioned, developers need to use all the money they can get to pay for their own expenses and whatnot, but again, it would be nicer if the world wasnt so money-hungry. Sadly, I dont think that a solution for this problem wont be found for another hundred years, or maybe never at all. I am thinking that maybe all cultures should be equally tempered t o a certain degree so that everyones on the same page, though bringing a whole world to sameness is yet something not foreseeable.Here are the things that I disagree with. I dont think it is necessary to have disabled the PM system. If people use it int the wrong manner, its their fault. Now, I do realise that in this particular emergency, we had no choice but to do so because we dont yet have a way of making sure we stay in the boundaries of freedom of speech and respecting others privacy.Now, for the suggestions: Can there be a way to filter private messages and e-mail relayed via the forum? For example, if the filter thinks you are talking about cracks, it will be either deleted or flagged for a moderator to approve?Other than that, I am thinking that only the forum e-mail should be used with the e-mail relay and eliminate private messaging altogether. I rarely used PMs anyhow, so this decision does not affect me in the least. Please be warned, this topic may be edited as new points arise and if I think of more things that I agree, disagree and what can be improved come up. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181428#p181428 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read I just had a read over this whole argument. Frankly, I feel like all there exists is a simple binary, when there are in fact several alternatives.First I will start with what I agree with, then what I disagree with, and then what I think could be improved and why. Note: I will not say who I agree or disagree with, so as not to single anyone out. I will just say what I agree or disagree with. Those who are knowledgeable about who said what it is I pointed can do what they want.First of all, I agree that the first thing that was needed was to clarify and make certain that the person in question was requesting for something that is considered illegal and or immoral as cracking. Having not done so could have resulted in a major disaster as stated in post no. 2. I agree that there could be a clearer understanding of what terms like cracking, serial numbers, etc means. In fact, I was wondering if the Forum could have a translation feature for those coming from non-English co untries. It would be nearly impossible to establish a multi-lingual forum in this situation, but at the same time try to keep the terms simple and not complex so that anyone would be able to understand it no matter the culture, since all cultures around the world have a simple moral, do not steal from others. I agree that the needed punishment was necessary, though I am beginning to think that people who never reform are impossible to punish, which branches off into another argument that I wont bother starting up. I also agree that finding a blanket solution to end cracking is impossible, though I think it would be just better if people were altruistic as Benjamin Franklin, though sadly, John Locke said himself that people are primarily selfish and they want to compete against one another in making better profits. Therefore, I think cracking games is more of a moral decision and not a legal one, though it is legal because stealing or shop-lifting means you are taking away some thing without paying for it, whereas if you make copies of something without paying for it, no one will get any money, or have to pay anything. The only time it becomes a legal matter is if a person copied it, modified it and sold it with their own tweaks. This becomes a copyright infringement, which is stated in a certain article of the United States constitution, and many other Western countries use the same system. If a person redistributed the games for free, then there is no restriction and the person can modify them at will, but the purpose is to not sell and make a profit that could result in legal wars. As mentioned, developers need to use all the money they can get to pay for their own expenses and whatnot, but again, it would be nicer if the world wasnt so money-hungry. Sadly, I dont think that a solution for this problem wont be found for another hundred years, or maybe never at all. I am thinking that maybe all cultures should be equally tempered to a certain degree so that everyones on the same page, though bringing a whole world to sameness is yet something not foreseeable.Here are the things that I disagree with. I dont think it is necessary to have disabled the PM system. If people use it int the wrong manner, its their fault. Now, I do realise that in this particular emergency, we had no choice but to do so because we dont yet have a way of making sure we stay in the boundaries of freedom of speech and respecting others privacy.Now, for the suggestions: Can there be a way to filter private messages and e-mail relayed via the forum? For example, if the filter thinks you are talking about cracks, it will be either deleted or flagged for a moderator to approve?Other than that, I am thinking that only the forum e-mail should be used with the e-mail relay and eliminate private messaging altogether. I rarely used PMs anyhow, so this decision does not affect me in the least .Please be warned, this topic may be edited as new points arise and if I think of more things that I agree, disagree and what can be improved come up. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181428#p181428 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Hayden via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read Id like to preface this by saying its good to be back, as Ive been away from this forum for quite a while. That out of the way, Ive read through everything thoroughly, and I tend to air on the side which believes this may have been overkill. I believe nocturnus stated it sufficiently eloquently, so Ill simply note that I agree with the stance taken here. I am not fluent in Spanish, but I am in French, and I can say that the same problems arise as Nocturnus stated. In addition, I have, through the playroom, seen a number of international users who seemed to believe one phrasing was correct, when another was. Just this morning, I received a request to talk for someone, which actually meant to talk to someone. Irrelevant, you may say, but language barriers do and always will exist regardless, and expecting that just because someone joins the forum, they should understand perfectly, is not exactly a good policy. And to Dark, I have sene some syntax of yours which is not what might be called correct English, often times in spelling, so in such cases I cant say that a non-native English speaker is to decipher what was written. Now, onto the rules. The rule against cracking reads exactly as follows:4) Posting warez, cracks, serials or hacking tips is not allowed.I suppose the thing to quibble over is that never in this rule is it said that asking for cracks is illegal. IN such a case, I would personally simply have made it explicitly clear that such a thing is illegal before banning for it. I am one of those who do not make any real use of Pming, but I will say that such a measure as an indefinite disabling of the entire PM feature for a few posts is overkill. You didn’t stop anything in particular, as such cracking discussions moved off site; all that was done was to inhibit onsite communication among the innocent. A number of posts made doesnt much prove how good you are at following the rules, as it is possible to machine gun a number of useless one-liner posts (Ive seen it done myself). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181434#p181434 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read I just had a read over this whole argument. Frankly, I feel like all there exists is a simple binary, when there are in fact several alternatives.First I will start with what I agree with, then what I disagree with, and then what I think could be improved and why. Note: I will not say who I agree or disagree with, so as not to single anyone out. I will just say what I agree or disagree with. Those who are knowledgeable about who said what it is I pointed can do what they want.First of all, I agree that the first thing that was needed was to clarify and make certain that the person in question was requesting for something that is considered illegal and or immoral as cracking. Having not done so could have resulted in a major disaster as stated in post no. 2. I agree that there could be a clearer understanding of what terms like cracking, serial numbers, etc means. In fact, I was wondering if the Forum could have a translation feature for those coming from non-English co untries. It would be nearly impossible to establish a multi-lingual forum in this situation, but at the same time try to keep the terms simple and not complex so that anyone would be able to understand it no matter the culture, since all cultures around the world have a simple moral, do not steal from others. I agree that the needed punishment was necessary, though I am beginning to think that people who never reform are impossible to punish, which branches off into another argument that I wont bother starting up. I also agree that finding a blanket solution to end cracking is impossible, though I think it would be just better if people were altruistic as Benjamin Franklin, though sadly, John Locke said himself that people are primarily selfish and they want to compete against one another in making better profits. Therefore, I think cracking games is more of a moral decision and not a legal one, though it is legal because stealing or shop-lifting means you are taking away some thing without paying for it, whereas if you make copies of something without paying for it, no one will get any money, or have to pay anything. The only time it becomes a legal matter is if a person copied it, modified it and sold it with their own tweaks. This becomes a copyright infringement, which is stated in a certain article of the United States constitution, and many other Western countries use the same system. If a person redistributed the games for free, then there is no restriction and the person can modify them at will, but the purpose is to not sell and make a profit that could result in legal wars. As mentioned, developers need to use all the money they can get to pay for their own expenses and whatnot, but again, it would be nicer if the world wasnt so money-hungry. Sadly, I dont think that a solution for this problem wont be found for another hundred years, or maybe never at all. I am thinking that maybe all cultures should be equally tempered to a certain degree so that everyones on the same page, though bringing a whole world to sameness is yet something not foreseeable.Here are the things that I disagree with. I dont think it is necessary to have disabled the PM system. If people use it int the wrong manner, its their fault. Now, I do realise that in this particular emergency, we had no choice but to do so because we dont yet have a way of making sure we stay in the boundaries of freedom of speech and respecting others privacy.Now, for the suggestions: Can there be a way to filter private messages and e-mail relayed via the forum? For example, if the filter thinks you are talking about cracks, it will be either deleted or flagged for a moderator to approve?Other than that, I am thinking that only the forum e-mail should be used with the e-mail relay and eliminate private messaging altogether. I rarely used PMs anyhow, so this decision does not affect me in the least .A suggestion to rule No. 4. I was thinking that we could write a proposed set of sentences and people can vote on the one that sounds best and that people would find easy to understand.Like, Enquiring about or engaging in any form of game piracy is strictly prohibited, and anyone who disobeys this rule will be immediately banned.Another could be. On any given place of this forum where a person engages in any game piracy, which includes posting, private-messaging, and or e-mailing will not be tolerated. Anyone caught disobeying this rule will be immediately banned.These sentences are rather complex, so if we wanted to make it simple, we would have to say something concise that is able to express everything in a broad field.Any form of game piracy is strictly forbidden on this forum.Please be warned that as this topic advances I will keep editing this topic to cover new aspects, and I may refer back to this topic if there is any need. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181428#p181428
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : themadviolinist via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read I think were wandering off into the weeds. Dark is not engaged in a Quixotic quest to stop game piracy, he is simply moving to stop up a leak in current policy around forbidden activity *on this site*, which is his responsibility as moderator. There is no moral issue here, simply his responsibility as moderator to enforce the rules. Consider that Audiogames.net certainly would not qualify as a safe harbor under US law, meaning that moderators and site administrators could be held liable for facilitating criminal activity by a zealous prosecutor here in the States. Not that this is likely mind you, were hardly a haven for International Organized Crime, except perhaps through postings about ChoiceOf Games entries, but the possibility, however low the probability exists. Being able to affirmatively demonstrate that the admins have taken what steps they could would lower the minuscule probability of harm even further.So, as a tem porary measure, I support Darks decision. If it turns out that there is no technological solution to this problem, (which I would guess will turn out to be the case) then thats a different discussion. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181453#p181453 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read
2014-07-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Important moderation message, please read but what has blocking PMs actually done? Its like treating the symptoms while ignoring the disease. The problem isnt the PM system; the problem is the peple who decide to use it a certain way. How many people are doing it? Can we justify blocking it for a thousand people if there have only been 5 offenders? Up until now, posting to me is simply that, posting a message publicly in such a way that anyone could have seen it. It does not concern itself with private messaging or any other forum of communication on this site, though using common sense dictates to me at least that we are to keep the very discussion of obtaining illegal copies of audiogames off of this site altogether. But what is common sense?It is apparent to me by looking at the news that very few people truly believe in the concept of frivolous lawsuits here in the United states, and hundreds if not thousands of dollars are made daily by exploiti ng loopholes in the law because the cort system is not interested in people taking responsibility for their actions, but on upholding the law. That means a person can climb up on a skyline owned by an establishment because there isnt a sign to keep someone away from it, fall through said skyline, then file a suit against the establishment that had that skyline in place to begin with. We would say that common sense dictates that this person should of course be held responsible for their actions, but the law sees only the victim in this case, which is the person who files the lawsuit, so where does common sense end up?The same holds true in this case. While common sense dictates that we do our best to keep the discussion of illegal copys of audiogames off of the site, it does not mean we can always be right in the manner we carry it out, and stomping our feet on a particular service provided by the site because we want to be truly careful is no more a so lution than simply hoping it will go away. We can be as strict as the travel security agency, requiring all sorts of screening from full body scans and X-rays, luggage checks, and anything else you can think of, and I can show you a person who trained a cat to throw a temper tantrum if picked up by officials in any way, told the officials this truth to keep them from handling the feline to get it and its specially custom made box safely through security, and in the process managed to smuggle a nice amount of illegal content aboard that plane hidden within the padding lining the box. Should we then close down all airports? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181473#p181473 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
