Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>, "M-12148 Mosiejewski Jaroslaw" <<mailto:jar...@optusnet.com.au>jar...@optusnet.com.au> Cc: Sent: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 12:59:57 +1100 Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding Yeah,

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

Yes but how many hours did the GFA report to ATSB that didn't actually happen? In 2009 I got a little card with the statistical return form for the BD-4 to DOT and RD. It had the hours flown by various branches of sport aviation and gliding claimed to have done 160,000 hours in 2008. Really?

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

Of interest in that ATSB report is the following: "Gliding, relative to private and sport aviation, had a relatively low fatal accident rate (8.7 per million hours) and accident rate (36.3 per million hours)." On 4 Mar 2016 10:55, Mark Newton wrote: > >

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Richard Frawley Sent: Friday, 4 March 2016 3:13 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. <aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding any breakdown on

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

ts.base64.com.au] On Behalf > Of Mike Borgelt > Sent: Friday, 4 March 2016 12:48 PM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > <aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding > > Making it a

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

At 02:21 PM 3/4/2016, you wrote: The Gliding International magazine breaks it down further X-country pilots1820 Comp pilots 500 (probably a sub set of x-country pilots) Instructors 600 (also probably a sub-set of x-country pilots - but not guaranteed) I

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

in Australia. <aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding Making it anywhere from 50 to 80 km/hr isn't going to change things by all that much. Call it a good physics order of magnitude estimate. It is better than that actually.

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

oaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Friday, 4 March 2016 12:48 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. <aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding Making

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

- > From: > "Gary Stevenson" <gstev...@bigpond.com> > > To: > "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > <aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>, "M-12148 Mosiejewski Jaroslaw" > <jar...@optusnet.com.au> > Cc: >

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

"M-12148 Mosiejewski Jaroslaw" <jar...@optusnet.com.au> Cc: Sent: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 12:59:57 +1100 Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding Yeah, it can happen, but only on good blue days, when your normal inter-thermal glide speed is about 100 knots or s

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

Making it anywhere from 50 to 80 km/hr isn't going to change things by all that much. Call it a good physics order of magnitude estimate. It is better than that actually. Mike At 11:51 AM 3/4/2016, you wrote: On 4/03/2016 12:07 PM, Mike Borgelt wrote: I doubt you'll find glider crash

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

, 4 March 2016 11:49 AM To: M-12148 Mosiejewski, Jaroslaw; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding expect for the rare occasion, if you come in with that much energy on final glide in a comp, then you screwed

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

not a suggestion to start Mark, more a reminder to self as much as anyone else that's it's important never to be complacent. > On 4 Mar 2016, at 11:54 AM, Mark Newton wrote: > >> On Mar 4, 2016, at 11:46 AM, Richard Frawley wrote: >> 6) is it more

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

I doubt you'll find glider crash rates per km. Hours, yes. What is the average speed of a motorcycle on the roads. I'll say 60km/h based on driving a car with a car computer a few times. That gives you around one crash per 1600 hours or so for motorcycles. I guess this is crashes not

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

>It's possible, by changing the finish rules, to reduce the accidents >relating to low finishes. Is it? How did you establish this? > Why not do it? The rules were changed in response to the recent accidents. We went from a 0ft 3km finish, to a 200-500ft 3km finish. (Keeping in mind 3km is not

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

On 4/03/2016 10:44 AM, DMcD wrote: And I don't think you could compare gliding with motorcycle riding (racing maybe). In terms of deaths per hundred thousand rider or comp pilot hours, you'd find a difference of several orders of magnitude. We have what
 2500 pilots active in Australia?

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

On Mar 4, 2016, at 11:46 AM, Richard Frawley wrote: > 6) is it more likely that on going attention, education, reeducation and > simulation will have positive effect towards reducing these events > > Yes There’s been rather a lot of ongoing attention, education,

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

lt;aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au <mailto:aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>> > Cc: > > Sent: > Fri, 4 Mar 2016 11:30:20 +1100 > Subject: > Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding > > > On Mar 4, 2016, at 11:14 AM, DMcD <slutsw...@gmail.co

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

11:30:20 +1100 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding On Mar 4, 2016, at 11:14 AM, DMcD <slutsw...@gmail.com [1]> wrote: It's probable that the statistics overall are not enough to prove anything one way or another. Well, sure, you could give strong-feeli

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

You initial statement when the evidence is presented and understood correctly you may find is falsely assumed. As Simon pointed out, ensure you have all the evidence before you assume a conclusion. Get the data as it been gathered, then resume this discussion and see if you are chasing the

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

On Mar 3, 2016, at 4:48 PM, Mike Borgelt wrote: > Also I really liked your guest article in the last AOPA magazine. > Can you post it here? Sure. I haven’t seen it in print, so I don’t know how they edited it, but here’s the original copy: "Things that irk

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

>>"More people die in comps than during non-competition flying" >>I do not think you can defend this statement with numbers. OK, perhaps a bit of clarification is needed. It's probable that the statistics overall are not enough to prove anything one way or another. However… There have been a

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

ssion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> Cc: Sent: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 09:42:18 +1100 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

On Mar 4, 2016, at 10:46 AM, Richard Frawley wrote: > > If this question is asked on the GFA form list, the actual numbers can be > quickly produced Can’t they be quickly produced here too? - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

Soaring in Australia." > <aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> > Cc: > > Sent: > Fri, 4 Mar 2016 09:42:18 +1100 > Subject: > Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding > > > >>I will further suggest to all forum members, most of whom a

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

ient. > > Regards, > Gary > > From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf > Of Mike Borgelt > Sent: Thursday, 3 March 2016 5:48 PM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dan

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

us-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf > Of Mike Borgelt > Sent: Thursday, 3 March 2016 5:48 PM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding > > > Well the Pet

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

definitive report on this accident. So please be patient. Regards, Gary From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Thursday, 3 March 2016 5:48 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Potenti

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

Well the Pete Cesco thread turned into a useful discussion on safety. All to the good. I understand the desire to move the finish away from the airfield but making at the ground 3Km out was so obviously stupid I still can't believe it. We've only severely broken two gliders and risked

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

Mark, Yes. Also I really liked your guest article in the last AOPA magazine. Can you post it here? Mike At 10:42 AM 3/3/2016, you wrote: On Mar 3, 2016, at 8:44 AM, Peter (PCS3) <p...@internode.on.net> wrote: As an L2 instructor, I teach that glider pilots

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

Very useful, Mark - thanks for letting us in on your thinking, it makes a lot of sense!! Kind regards Bernard > On 3 Mar 2016, at 11:12 AM, Mark Newton wrote: > > On Mar 3, 2016, at 8:44 AM, Peter (PCS3) >

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

On 2/03/2016 3:50 PM, Richard Frawley wrote: come to the comps and find out... NSW states are about to happen there. on the day, it was an appropriate margin as determined by the race stewards. the pilots all agreed by show of hand. seems a responsible approach (opps no pun) to creating the

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

Yeah, I'm a bit confused by that statement also ... Col Whisson 0459 121 457 On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 11:32 PM -0800, "Optusnet" wrote: I am laughing so hard I think I just s_at myself Sent from my iPad > On 2 Mar 2016, at 4:54 PM, Matt Gage

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

*'Does anyone know what really happened at Ararat nearly 4 years ago?''* *Yes we do know what happened.* Why try to hide it? There was an aerotow incident, The rope went slack. They released at low altitude. There was a safe landing ahead. Maurice Little did a turn back to the airfield at

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

Yes I did Otherwise he would not have landed in the vines. On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:45 PM, Paul Bart wrote: > > Yes, but when they coined that impressive phrase, they assumed that the > facts used would be relevant. Unless you actually know what happened to the > glider you

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

"Anyway after looking at Google Earth and the TV footage I don't think we're talking about a misjudged skinny final glide in this case." Disagree! Adelaide doctor can answer for himself. The approach to Waikerie airfield from the North involves; 1, crossing the river, 2. an up slope of 100 ft

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

*"I was trying to figure out what you were getting at. I use a glide computer, not the Mark 1 eyeball for final glides"* Thanks Mike, What I was getting at was this: At the end of a final glide you have decision to make. It it this:* Am I sure I can get in to the airfield safely*! This

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

I was trying to figure out what you were getting at. I use a glide computer, not the Mark 1 eyeball for final glides. If you are going to do really skinny final glides it better be one you are familiar with and a glider you are familiar with. I'm also very conservative and while I've taken

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

I was trying to figure out what you were getting at. I use a glide computer, not the Mark 1 eyeball for final glides. If you are going to do really skinny final glides it better be one you are familiar with and a glider you are familiar with. I'm also very conservative and while I've taken

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

Hey Bob I am 50 years in gliding this month and thats longer than you!! and regretfully I remember many of them we have lost. As a friend once said to me "straight ahead to the hospital and left or right to the cemetery". ie avoid low level spins at all costs. Ian McPhee 0428857642 Box 657

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

Possibly of interest Mike. Can you enlarge on this comment. Do you mean open the dive brakes 10 km for the Airfield and make an off field landing, as I have suggested? On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Mike Borgelt < mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote: > I thought that's what dive brakes

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

I thought that's what dive brakes were for. Mike At 10:12 AM 3/1/2016, you wrote: There have been quite a few accidents in recent years due to misjudging the approach to landing and undershooting. Clearly if the angle of approach seems too low a pilot will take option B and make an

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

There have been quite a few accidents in recent years due to misjudging the approach to landing and undershooting. Clearly if the angle of approach seems too low a pilot will take option B and make an outlanding. It is probably much easier to see this in a short wing Kookaburra than it is in a