Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
mike Have no idea what you are so excited about. I never said you could upgrade from 98 to w7...that was the point. XP and OS X came out within months of each other, xp a few months after os x. The big technology leap for apple was of course os 9 to OS X, for windows, the big leap is xp to vista..but I think the move from Win98SE/WinME to WinNT/Win2K is closer to OS9 - OSX. If MS would've stuck to their original plan with all of their improvements that got delayed/sidetracked (new fs, etc.) then it would've been a bigger deal. XP-Vista a big pain at introduction, now a much improved security model. -- Take care | This clown speaks for himself, his job doesn't Wayne D. | supply this, at least not directly Remember: COBOL can be cured if detected in early stages * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Win 98 to win2k was not a consumer upgrade path. Sent from my iPod On Jun 13, 2009, at 5:19 AM, Wayne Dernoncourt way...@panix.com wrote: mike Have no idea what you are so excited about. I never said you could upgrade from 98 to w7...that was the point. XP and OS X came out within months of each other, xp a few months after os x. The big technology leap for apple was of course os 9 to OS X, for windows, the big leap is xp to vista..but I think the move from Win98SE/WinME to WinNT/Win2K is closer to OS9 - OSX. If MS would've stuck to their original plan with all of their improvements that got delayed/sidetracked (new fs, etc.) then it would've been a bigger deal. XP-Vista a big pain at introduction, now a much improved security model. -- Take care | This clown speaks for himself, his job doesn't Wayne D. | supply this, at least not directly Remember: COBOL can be cured if detected in early stages *** ** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** *** ** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Stop walking in the store and buying MS stuff. There, I fixed it for you. On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:58 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: Another is how we let M$ continue to rip us all off. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Surprisingly no. I move many of them off of Eudora (except my mom) but they usually do not have much malware problems. I do a cleaning every now and then and make sure they have protection. I guess you can call it safe computing. Both of my Vegas I sold to get other cars and they were running. The one got picked to pieces in Downtown St. Louis. (I sold it to a brother minister) The last one got sold to a young man who drive it till it dropped. I don't think I had more than a couple thousand invested in both of them combined. Stewart At 11:24 PM 6/11/2009, you wrote: At least they have someone for support. But don't they have malware issues? But to tell you what kind of person I am I also owned two Vega's (Both used) And put many, many miles on them. I had a Vega. It retired at 65 [thousand miles]. Little part broke -- cam shaft -- wrecked the engine. Aluminum engine couldn't handle my driving style [too fast]. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Seems most are not mentioning upgrading from XP to 7 would be like asking Apple to do a straight upgrade from os 9 to 10.6. All your programs and settings too...why can't I run that program I've been running since system 7 on 10.5?? Some of the xp'ers out there are undoubtedly still running crap that they were using on 95 or 98...and now they want to upgrade to an OS written 8-10 years later, an os that is probably going to go from being 32 to 64bit and still expect to run everything they used to. That being said, generally speaking Apple has it all over windows in the upgrade area, going from 10.3 to .4 or .5 is flawless and easy. You can't say that if you are going from vista to 7, MS has never put the time in to make this work nearly as well. On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Art Clemons artclem...@aol.com wrote: The cheapo Win7 releases at Best Buy seem to be 50 and 100 for upgrades. I heard it was from Vista only. Apparently you can upgrade from XP, only thing is that win 7 will not use your apps and settings, it will instead make your old windows folder into something that is saved (you likely can boot from it too). Then a new windows 7 installation is made.Considering all of the crud, I'm not sure that upgrades keeping old settings and software are really the way to go anyway. I note incidentally that I don't normally run any version of Windows anymore. I have however played with Win7, it appears to be the best Windows version yet (what do I know, I thought WFWG 3.11 was the best way back when too), * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
You might be surprised. I have programs that were written for old OS (DOS/w95-98) that still run well within XP. I have had programs written for XP that did not run well. It all depends on the programmers. I would assume (And it sounds pretty good) that most Vista folks will have a pretty seamless upgrade to 7. The biggest thing I expect if I do upgrade to 7 is finding new drivers for stuff. Sometimes the extra programs on Printer Driver Disks, and Program disks (when you get those) can be the most enjoyable programs ever. I still remember some of the early Windows games that came out on floppies. Kind of neat. I have aversion of MS Golf 2 sitting on my desk for reinstall (when my new CDrom arrives) and I always enjoyed it. The best game of golf I ever played!!! I cold actually make par. Stewart At 09:01 AM 6/12/2009, you wrote: Seems most are not mentioning upgrading from XP to 7 would be like asking Apple to do a straight upgrade from os 9 to 10.6. All your programs and settings too...why can't I run that program I've been running since system 7 on 10.5?? Some of the xp'ers out there are undoubtedly still running crap that they were using on 95 or 98...and now they want to upgrade to an OS written 8-10 years later, an os that is probably going to go from being 32 to 64bit and still expect to run everything they used to. That being said, generally speaking Apple has it all over windows in the upgrade area, going from 10.3 to .4 or .5 is flawless and easy. You can't say that if you are going from vista to 7, MS has never put the time in to make this work nearly as well. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Oh, really, Mike! Let's see. Mac OS 9 was discontinued in the late 1990's. M$ was selling Windows 98 and ME. So show me the 98-to-W7 upgrade or cut the WFB BS that twists the reality most list members know. Both venders made their upgrade versus compatibility decisions (good and bad). I personally think M$ stuck with DOS so long it ruined any chances Windows may have once had, then they almost got XP'd to 2001. The largest OS 9 to OS X issue Apple hasn't addressed yet (for me) is the FTFF thing. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Seems most are not mentioning upgrading from XP to 7 would be like asking Apple to do a straight upgrade from os 9 to 10.6. All your programs and settings too...why can't I run that program I've been running since system 7 on 10.5?? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
I have programs that were written for old OS (DOS/w95-98) that still run well within XP. I have had programs written for XP that did not run well. It all depends on the programmers. I have two programs that were written for DOS 2.0 in the early 80s that I still use every day. Of course, I was the programmer. g * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Sure, sure...sorry. Keep your pants on..oh sorry. There was no devolving till YOU started name calling big guy. Since you aren't responding to my comments, I take that as you knowing you were wrong and now can only go after the messenger. Good tactics. And just as a final rub..I'm getting the iphone regardless of your ok. On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) mark.sny...@ngc.com wrote: Please drop talking about others being excited, calming down, knee-jerk reactions and so many other patronizing terms. But for that, I might hope for an eventual give-and-take conversation. I can't pin this on the WFB or MFB, because I doubt you are so thin-skinned. Did this devolve from trying to one-up Tom? Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Have no idea what you are so excited about. I never said you could upgrade from 98 to w7...that was the point. XP and OS X came out within months of each other, xp a few months after os x. The big technology leap for apple was of course os 9 to OS X, for windows, the big leap is xp to vista..but not AS big as the OS X leap. Apple has made much smaller incremental moves foward over the last eight years to arrive at snow leopard, MS sat on XP and upgraded users at no charge until 2007 when vista came out. Most users on this list seem to be saying they skipped the vista debacle and thus will upgrade from xp to 7. This is a leap of 8 years worth of tech and my point was to expect to be able to upgrade in place was asking a lot...like asking apple to upgrade you, programs and all from OS 9 to 10.5. If you calmed down and stopped the knee jerk reactions you might understand what I was saying. Calling everyone who doesn't tow your line a WFB isn't really a conversation, it's just name calling to try and end discussion. BTW, can WFB's own apple stuff? Do I have to sell all my ipods and my mac..and not get the iphone I'm planning on in September? Say it ain't so, I was looking forward to that phone. On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 7:28 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) mark.sny...@ngc.com wrote: Oh, really, Mike! Let's see. Mac OS 9 was discontinued in the late 1990's. M$ was selling Windows 98 and ME. So show me the 98-to-W7 upgrade or cut the WFB BS that twists the reality most list members know. Both venders made their upgrade versus compatibility decisions (good and bad). I personally think M$ stuck with DOS so long it ruined any chances Windows may have once had, then they almost got XP'd to 2001. The largest OS 9 to OS X issue Apple hasn't addressed yet (for me) is the FTFF thing. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Seems most are not mentioning upgrading from XP to 7 would be like asking Apple to do a straight upgrade from os 9 to 10.6. All your programs and settings too...why can't I run that program I've been running since system 7 on 10.5?? ** *** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** ** *** * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Since you speak of her job in the past tense, I suspect that the newspaper was running a pre-OS X system. Even well-managed OS 9 and pre-OS 9 systems were occasionally prone to extension and control panel conflicts if you used any beyond a basic set, and your wife's newspaper probably had to use a set that was more finicky than most. Also (Tom would know better about this than me) it seems like publishers were among the last switchers to OS X. My home town newspaper was still using OS 9 two years ago! By the way when my wife worked at the newspaper she would always complain about their computers, and problems they were having. Oh by the way they were an all Mac shop. Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
IT guys can even screw up a mac network. I have a friend who works at a local community college supporting hundreds of windows pc's and quite a few mac systems. Neither have had problems of any kind in years. Good IT is hard to find, but once you do things run smoothly, mac or windows. On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 11:07 AM, David K Watson davidkirkwat...@gmail.comwrote: Since you speak of her job in the past tense, I suspect that the newspaper was running a pre-OS X system. Even well-managed OS 9 and pre-OS 9 systems were occasionally prone to extension and control panel conflicts if you used any beyond a basic set, and your wife's newspaper probably had to use a set that was more finicky than most. Also (Tom would know better about this than me) it seems like publishers were among the last switchers to OS X. My home town newspaper was still using OS 9 two years ago! By the way when my wife worked at the newspaper she would always complain about their computers, and problems they were having. Oh by the way they were an all Mac shop. Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Yes and yes. They were also running one of the Old all in one Macs with some custom software. Stewart At 01:07 PM 6/12/2009, you wrote: Since you speak of her job in the past tense, I suspect that the newspaper was running a pre-OS X system. Even well-managed OS 9 and pre-OS 9 systems were occasionally prone to extension and control panel conflicts if you used any beyond a basic set, and your wife's newspaper probably had to use a set that was more finicky than most. Also (Tom would know better about this than me) it seems like publishers were among the last switchers to OS X. My home town newspaper was still using OS 9 two years ago! Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
On Jun 12, 2009, at 1:50 PM, mike wrote: Why is it the attackers always get whiney when they get a little back? Classic behavior for a bully. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
So a fair comparison in your mind is .4 to .6? A four year difference and hardly a leap in technology within the OS, all the while keeping in the 8 year gap between XP and 7. It's not anyone cutting MS slack, by cutting the time for Apple in half it's clear you want to cut Apple the slack. Who is we? No one has to accept MS coming up short if they think that's what is happening..use a mac or linux. Ruthless? Whatever. Talk to some apple iphone programmers who have been hosed by Apple's generosity. I already said MS's upgrade technology or lack of sucks bad, it's no where near as clean as upgrading an OS X from one version to another. On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 12:03 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jun 12, 2009, at 10:01 AM, mike wrote: Seems most are not mentioning upgrading from XP to 7 would be like asking Apple to do a straight upgrade from os 9 to 10.6. All your programs and settings too...why can't I run that program I've been running since system 7 on 10.5?? No, it would be like asking Apple to do a straight upgrade from os X.4 to X.6. And Apple can deliver the goods with aplomb. Why are we always being asked to cut M$ slack. They are big. They are rich. They are ruthless. They boast of their tech prowess. And then we are supposed to accept their constantly coming up short? Why? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Looking at OS X, it's very capable and has been for some time. What else is there to do? The iPhone I think hit this extremely quickly, 3rd gen is hardly an upgrade. Better video? wow. Other then that it's on faster hardware, but the OS is basically the same. On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 11:55 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: I suspect the $29 upgrade price may be an acknowledgment of this. If all it does is FTFF Apple is not going to charge a hefty fee. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Moto Q is nothing to brag about :p I've waited some time and should be, barring any acts of God, be getting an iPhone around September. I can get a refurb 3g for 80 bones from AT$T, and with the included options etc, family plan...I'll even drop my current tmobile bill about 10 bux. On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net wrote: However a lot of the earlier subscribers are a little more than pissed at how inexpensive the phone is getting especially after how much they spent. One of the ways I have bought technology is never be the first one. Always wait a year or two. I got my last Smartphone (Motorola Q) with a deep discount for just less than $100.00 because I waited. (Boy does that hurt to wait) My wife got her last Cell phone (An Env2) for next to nothing because we waited. Not an easy thing to do at all. Oh my Motorola even though it is not a touch phone does cut and paste. Stewart At 04:37 PM 6/12/2009, you wrote: I see iPhone 3 as the first usable version. Without cut and paste I was totally uninterested. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
True but it is one of the better smartphones I have had. I use Verizon not because they are great, but because in this area they have the best coverage. I want a smartphone that is comfortable, works well, and fits in my pocket but does not weight a ton. I have the Q9c model which is considered one of the best renditions of the Q (The earlier Q models were the pits) I have had a Palm, and a Samsung. I had both the Palm OS and the Windows OS on the palms. The Samsung had lousy battery life (wireless) and was clunky. The Palms worked well, but again were a little more bulk than I wanted. So I have to sue one that will work with Verizon and the Q right now is a pretty good choice. We will see when the Pre comes to Verizon how much it is. (I am due for an upgrade next spring) However I will not be switching carriers no matter what phone as they simply do not have the coverage in this area. (Verizon is kind of the 1 ton gorilla in this neck of the woods) Stewart At 05:15 PM 6/12/2009, you wrote: Moto Q is nothing to brag about :p I've waited some time and should be, barring any acts of God, be getting an iPhone around September. I can get a refurb 3g for 80 bones from AT$T, and with the included options etc, family plan...I'll even drop my current tmobile bill about 10 bux. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
I use cut and paste all the time with my Palm Tungsten. If the iPhone is to replace my Palm it had better do cut and paste. On Jun 12, 2009, at 6:00 PM, mike wrote: I've used cut and paste on the winmo and blackberry phones I've had over the last couple of years maybe twice. It seemed like a big deal to me at the time that the iPhone didn't have it, but upon reflection, I never use it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
It's always painful getting the first iteration only to see better versions appearing in the following years. I type this on my MBP 1.1 that was 3 years old in March. Current models take more RAM and have faster CPUs as well as larger drives. Similarly, I have a 17 month old Motorola Q9h that I bought because I didn't want to get an iPhone v1; already burned once. The Q9h is great in many ways but the yet-to-be released WM 6.5 will not run on it or just about any other current WM phone. Even though the iPhone is likely to change again and dramatically in 2010, I'm thinking I'll be getting the 3GS in July and hope that I will not be too envious next June. After all, now OS 3.0 gives the iPhone cut paste and voice dialing like nearly all other phones. Whatever the cutting edge device/technology, it will always get better in the future. One just has to be prepared to let go and move on eventually no matter how good a thing was when you first got it. YMMV --- I have very strong feelings about how you lead your life. You always look ahead, you never look back. ~ Ann Richards ( 1933 - 2006 ) -- However a lot of the earlier subscribers are a little more than pissed at how inexpensive the phone is getting especially after how much they spent. One of the ways I have bought technology is never be the first one. Always wait a year or two. I got my last Smartphone (Motorola Q) with a deep discount for just less than $100.00 because I waited. (Boy does that hurt to wait) My wife got her last Cell phone (An Env2) for next to nothing because we waited. Not an easy thing to do at all. Oh my Motorola even though it is not a touch phone does cut and paste. I see iPhone 3 as the first usable version. Without cut and paste I was totally uninterested. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
I once herd it put this way. What is the definition of a nanosecond? The time it takes you to get you computer home and find out it is outdated. Stewart At 08:47 PM 6/12/2009, you wrote: It's always painful getting the first iteration only to see better versions appearing in the following years. I type this on my MBP 1.1 that was 3 years old in March. Current models take more RAM and have faster CPUs as well as larger drives. Similarly, I have a 17 month old Motorola Q9h that I bought because I didn't want to get an iPhone v1; already burned once. The Q9h is great in many ways but the yet-to-be released WM 6.5 will not run on it or just about any other current WM phone. Even though the iPhone is likely to change again and dramatically in 2010, I'm thinking I'll be getting the 3GS in July and hope that I will not be too envious next June. After all, now OS 3.0 gives the iPhone cut paste and voice dialing like nearly all other phones. Whatever the cutting edge device/technology, it will always get better in the future. One just has to be prepared to let go and move on eventually no matter how good a thing was when you first got it. YMMV Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
You missed a step. If someone has not yet purchased an Intel based Mac they have to now buy an Intel based Mac so it would be even more costly. Is this what you call Tomonomics? 29 + [cost of new Intel Mac] = 29 BTW, I think it's downright rude how we Windows people haven't heard one word of thanks from the Mac folks for their new, cheaper hardware and OS. I suppose it will take a while to pot down from the old ways of If you have to ask how much it costs... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Vista-Ready New computer + cost of Vista + (oops!) new computer (that can actually run Vista and all of its marvels). WFBonomics, I suppose. Thank you, Mark Snyder -Original Message- Is this what you call Tomonomics? 29 + [cost of new Intel Mac] = 29 BTW, I think it's downright rude how we Windows people haven't heard one word of thanks from the Mac folks for their new, cheaper hardware and OS. I suppose it will take a while to pot down from the old ways of If you have to ask how much it costs... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Vista-Ready New computer + cost of Vista + (oops!) new computer (that can actually run Vista and all of its marvels). WFBonomics, I suppose. Actually, that's Intelonomics (or maybe markting-troll-o'nomics), since they were the ones pushing for that idiotic monkier. Any WFB could have told you that MS caving to that demand was galactic-sized stupid. http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2008/03/the-vista-capable-debacle-intel -pushes-microsoft-bends.ars Thank you, Oh, it was nothing, really. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
I've mentioned earlier here, that I put the Win 7 beta on my 3 year old Lenovo laptop back in Jan, and the RC when it came out, and it runs fabulously; even better than with XP3. I did invest $11 at Microcenter to take it to 2G. Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Win 7 actually will run on many XP computers out of the box. It does not have the bloat requirement that Vista does. One of the better features of 7. Stewart At 06:50 AM 6/11/2009, you wrote: Vista-Ready New computer + cost of Vista + (oops!) new computer (that can actually run Vista and all of its marvels). WFBonomics, I suppose. Thank you, Mark Snyder Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
The best we have to offer do not usually go into politics. Besides which I thought Elvis was not dead he just went home to his home planet. Stewart At 02:41 PM 6/11/2009, you wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Jeff Wrightjswri...@gmail.com wrote: 50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong. They think he is still alive. Look at it another way. If this were a presidential election, what words would you use to describe the voting gap between 1st and 2nd place? Don't tell me you still have McGovern and Mondale bumper stickers tucked away. W won the two elections before Obama. Was he the best we had to offer? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Chris Dunfordseed...@gmail.com wrote: Well, he won one election, anyway. Actually, he won them both by hook or by crook. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Jeff Wright Let's put this all into a certain perspective. Market forces have made it abundantly clear that the Windows operating system and the computers that come supplied with that OS are absolutely superior in every way, shape and form. The sales figures have made this an indisputable fact according to the marketplace, and the marketplace is the primary criteria by which all such things are determined in our capitalist system. End of argument? 50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong. Look at it another way. If this were a presidential election, what words would you use to describe the voting gap between 1st and 2nd place? Don't tell me you still have McGovern and Mondale bumper stickers tucked away. That's ridiculous! Personal computers (small computers designed to be owned/used by an individual) have been around for what 25-30 years? Microsoft has been in the drivers seat for 20-25 of those years (since DOS 3.something?). MS acquired this dominance more through shrewd business tactics (bundling and discounting DOS and then Windows) -- Take care | This clown speaks for himself, his job doesn't Wayne D. | supply this, at least not directly When your work SPEAKS for itself. ...Run * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Wayne Dernoncourtway...@panix.com wrote: That's ridiculous! Personal computers (small computers designed to be owned/used by an individual) have been around for what 25-30 years? Microsoft has been in the drivers seat for 20-25 of those years (since DOS 3.something?). MS acquired this dominance more through shrewd business tactics (bundling and discounting DOS and then Windows) But, doesn't marketplace dominance determine what is best? I thought that concept was the whole theory of how the almighty marketplace sorts out the wheat from the chaff. All I ever hear is how MS Windows commands over 90% of computer sales, and therefore that means computers with that OS installed at the time of purchase are the best. In addition to their cheap cost, don't most people buy Windows machines because everyone else has one? How can so many people possibly be wrong? As a little current and pertinent aside, let me say that when I arrived at work today the subject of great discussion was about how the computers were running very slowly. Needed apps resident on the hard drive were taking forever to load and the internet could not be accessed at all. Folks were, yet again, frantically trying to get the POS and other software to load and run. This was mentioned to me, but ever weary of this fairly routine conundrum, I told them that I had no comment on the situation and had nothing to offer. I did wonder, however, how can the best so often be so flaky? W32 virus this time? A lot of downtime was clearly going to be the order of the day. That prediction did not disappoint. Thank goodness I managed to get out of there early before tempers really started getting short. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Can I ask an enormously stupid and off the wall question? Why is it that some folks seem to have nothing but problems with Windows and I have nary a problem? Granted I have had a problem or tow along the way. I have done real stupid stuff like do upgrade instead of clean installs, cloned drives instead of clean installation, and I have even had to reload windows a time or tow, but that is over the process of 15 years. So why is it that I seem to have very little problems running windows and some seem to have nothing but problems. By the way when my wife worked at the newspaper she would always complain about their computers, and problems they were having. Oh by the way they were an all Mac shop. Stewart At 04:28 PM 6/11/2009, you wrote: But, doesn't marketplace dominance determine what is best? I thought that concept was the whole theory of how the almighty marketplace sorts out the wheat from the chaff. All I ever hear is how MS Windows commands over 90% of computer sales, and therefore that means computers with that OS installed at the time of purchase are the best. In addition to their cheap cost, don't most people buy Windows machines because everyone else has one? How can so many people possibly be wrong? As a little current and pertinent aside, let me say that when I arrived at work today the subject of great discussion was about how the computers were running very slowly. Needed apps resident on the hard drive were taking forever to load and the internet could not be accessed at all. Folks were, yet again, frantically trying to get the POS and other software to load and run. This was mentioned to me, but ever weary of this fairly routine conundrum, I told them that I had no comment on the situation and had nothing to offer. I did wonder, however, how can the best so often be so flaky? W32 virus this time? A lot of downtime was clearly going to be the order of the day. That prediction did not disappoint. Thank goodness I managed to get out of there early before tempers really started getting short. Steve Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Jeff Wrightjswri...@gmail.com wrote: 50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong. They think he is still alive. Look at it another way. If this were a presidential election, what words would you use to describe the voting gap between 1st and 2nd place? Don't tell me you still have McGovern and Mondale bumper stickers tucked away. W won the two elections before Obama. Was he the best we had to offer? Steve He might not have been the best we had to offer, but he is 1000 times better than Obama. Bill * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
What do you do with your windows computer? Do you install everything under the sun that looks neat? I do on my Mac. Why is it you have to only do clean installs? And why have you had to reload Windows a time or two? I've upgraded my OS on my Macs, but never had to reload the OS. My guess to your main question is you do very little with your PC running Windows. And what kind of problems was your wife having? Was it the whole department or just her? Jeff M P.S. Just got my new iMac 24 today. After working on an iBook for a month I feel like I'm now in a movie theater. This thing is huge, and very bright. I barely need to turn the lights on in the room. However, the external case that holds those drives I mentioned earlier in a different thread isn't showing up. I don't know why, it shows up on my other computers. And the hard drives I've tried are both from older iMacs. You'd think it would recognize it's elders. It might be nice, big, bright and shinny, but show some respect. On Jun 11, 2009, at 2:49 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Can I ask an enormously stupid and off the wall question? Why is it that some folks seem to have nothing but problems with Windows and I have nary a problem? Granted I have had a problem or tow along the way. I have done real stupid stuff like do upgrade instead of clean installs, cloned drives instead of clean installation, and I have even had to reload windows a time or tow, but that is over the process of 15 years. So why is it that I seem to have very little problems running windows and some seem to have nothing but problems. By the way when my wife worked at the newspaper she would always complain about their computers, and problems they were having. Oh by the way they were an all Mac shop. Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
1000 times better then Obama? What planet are you living on? I'm not one to bad mouth Elvis. I was never a fan but hand nothing against him. So he never qualified for my praise or condemnation. On the other hand Obama was elected to clean up the mess. And with a few exceptions I have, he's been doing a pretty good job considering what he's had to deal with. I used to be a staunch conservative. That was until the neocons took over things. These people are nuts. I totally agree with some news reporters I've heard that predict the independent party will be the next major party next to the democratic party. Jeff M On Jun 11, 2009, at 2:46 PM, Bill Wajert wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Jeff Wrightjswri...@gmail.com wrote: 50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong. They think he is still alive. Look at it another way. If this were a presidential election, what words would you use to describe the voting gap between 1st and 2nd place? Don't tell me you still have McGovern and Mondale bumper stickers tucked away. W won the two elections before Obama. Was he the best we had to offer? Steve He might not have been the best we had to offer, but he is 1000 times better than Obama. Bill * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http:// www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshallpopoz...@earthlink.net wrote: Can I ask an enormously stupid and off the wall question? Why is it that some folks seem to have nothing but problems with Windows and I have nary a problem? Dunno. I wonder the same thing. Some folks seem to have pretty smooth sailing, while others suffer from ill winds. Granted I have had a problem or tow along the way. I have done real stupid stuff like do upgrade instead of clean installs, cloned drives instead of clean installation, and I have even had to reload windows a time or tow, but that is over the process of 15 years. I have never had to reload an OS. Seven Macs over a similar amount of time. Five Macs still up and running, albeit three of them irregularly. One in storage and one died from a lightning strike. By the way when my wife worked at the newspaper she would always complain about their computers, and problems they were having. Oh by the way they were an all Mac shop. Now, that is hard to explain! Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Bill Wajertwrws...@swbell.net wrote: He might not have been the best we had to offer, but he is 1000 times better than Obama. Ouch!!! And the guy has only been at it for such a short time. He's even continuing a number of the Bush policies, yet he is already 1,000 times worse? Dude, you're gonna have a thrombosis before Obama is done if you don't calm down. Just to kinda keep on topic, Windows advocate? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Can I ask an enormously stupid and off the wall question? Why is it that some folks seem to have nothing but problems with Windows and I have nary a problem? Stewart, Is that a rhetorical question? You're a techie and know what you're doing. You know enough to see a mistake BEFORE it happens. And you have God on your side. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
On Jun 11, 2009, at 5:28 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: But, doesn't marketplace dominance determine what is best? I thought that concept was the whole theory of how the almighty marketplace sorts out the wheat from the chaff. Absolutely, I'll pick the $1 McDonalds burger over a sirloin steak every time. I positively love those soy fillers and bone chips. Yum! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
On Jun 11, 2009, at 5:49 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: So why is it that I seem to have very little problems running windows and some seem to have nothing but problems. It all depends on what you are comparing it to. This afternoon I ran into somebody who moved back to her home town a few years ago. She said she gave it a try for a few years, but having lived around here she now found her old town unbearable. The operative quote is... The people who still live there think its just fine, but they have never lived anywhere else. We are glad that you are just fine. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net escribió: I will go with the last part before any of the other. (Although I seriously wonder if anyone has God on their side. I would much prefer to be on his side than have him on my side. theological diatribe here. Just kidding. I like your answer. I also help out a lot of folks that do not seem to have problems except home made ones. (Removing a menu out of a program, bad net card etc.) I have one person I help using logmein (long distance) that has CP and has to use an old MS Easy Ball, and the biggest problem she ever experiences is the moving menus and not being able to right click. (The Easy Ball has only one clicker) At least they have someone for support. But don't they have malware issues? But to tell you what kind of person I am I also owned two Vega's (Both used) And put many, many miles on them. I had a Vega. It retired at 65 [thousand miles]. Little part broke -- cam shaft -- wrecked the engine. Aluminum engine couldn't handle my driving style [too fast]. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
The cheapo Win7 releases at Best Buy seem to be 50 and 100 for upgrades. I heard it was from Vista only. Apparently you can upgrade from XP, only thing is that win 7 will not use your apps and settings, it will instead make your old windows folder into something that is saved (you likely can boot from it too). Then a new windows 7 installation is made.Considering all of the crud, I'm not sure that upgrades keeping old settings and software are really the way to go anyway. I note incidentally that I don't normally run any version of Windows anymore. I have however played with Win7, it appears to be the best Windows version yet (what do I know, I thought WFWG 3.11 was the best way back when too), * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:43 PM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: The cheapo Win7 releases at Best Buy seem to be 50 and 100 for upgrades. I heard it was from Vista only. The Apple upgrade is from any version and not for a crippled version of the OS. Since most people would be upgrading from XP and don't want crippleware, what does a real upgrade cost? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Apple is going to let you upgrade from puma to snow leopard for 29 bux? Not bad. On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 5:57 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:43 PM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: The cheapo Win7 releases at Best Buy seem to be 50 and 100 for upgrades. I heard it was from Vista only. The Apple upgrade is from any version and not for a crippled version of the OS. Since most people would be upgrading from XP and don't want crippleware, what does a real upgrade cost? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
How much more beyond that to include Exchange support? In Snow Leopard, you'll have to pay a hefty $0 extra to get it. Microsoft might actually have something to be happy about in this regard, because Snow Leopard's Exchange support requires the most recent version of Exchange, so this will provide one more incentive for businesses to upgrade their exchange servers. From:John Duncan Yoyo johnduncany...@gmail.com On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 4:43 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: Snow Leopard vs Leopard looks to be more of an SE type of upgrade, much like Win7 vs. Vista. Accordingly Apple will charge $29 for the upgrade. How many zeros will we need to add to that to get M$'s Win7 price? The cheapo Win7 releases at Best Buy seem to be 50 and 100 for upgrades. I heard it was from Vista only. http://lifehacker.com/5283189/best-buys-upgrade-pricing-for-windows-7-free-50-100-depending-on-your-situation -- * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Exchange is just one more proof of un-savvyness. Big, bulky, expensive, and fragile. The only reason to buy it is to keep upper management terrified of what will happen if IT is not around to constantly tend it. (I guess that is a perverse form of savvy.) On Jun 10, 2009, at 1:19 PM, David K Watson wrote: Microsoft might actually have something to be happy about in this regard, because Snow Leopard's Exchange support requires the most recent version of Exchange, so this will provide one more incentive for businesses to upgrade their exchange servers. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Apple is going to let you upgrade from puma to snow leopard for 29 bux? Not bad. Snow Leopard 10.6 requires an Intel Mac. $29 upgrade is from Leopard, 10.5. Apple sez: 'For Tiger® users with an Intel-based Mac, the Mac Box Set includes Mac OS X Snow Leopard, iLife® ’09 and iWork® ’09 and will be available for a suggested price of $169 (US) and a Family Pack is available for a suggested price of $229 (US).' http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/06/08macosx.html iLife + iWork + Snow Leopard = $99 + $99 + $129 = $327 without discount [$169 with discount]. How much will Windows 7 Pro alone cost when it's out of beta? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Well, the people who are most likely to upgrade their OS are the ones who have recently bought a new one. A significant proportion of XP users in this group are ones who had to buy a Vista license in order to run XP, so the XP - Win7 upgrade cost should not apply to them. As for the rest of the XP users who want to upgrade to Windows 7, MS can't make the cost of the direct upgrade so expensive that people will consider the option of combining an upgrade to Vista with a Vista - Win7 upgrade. I have no idea what any of those prices are, though I'd expect that the cost of the intermediate upgrade to Vista will fall like a meteor once Windows 7 is released. From:t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:43 PM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: The cheapo Win7 releases at Best Buy seem to be 50 and 100 for upgrades. I heard it was from Vista only. The Apple upgrade is from any version and not for a crippled version of the OS. Since most people would be upgrading from XP and don't want crippleware, what does a real upgrade cost? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 1:19 PM, David K Watson davidkirkwat...@gmail.comwrote: How much more beyond that to include Exchange support? In Snow Leopard, you'll have to pay a hefty $0 extra to get it. Microsoft might actually have something to be happy about in this regard, because Snow Leopard's Exchange support requires the most recent version of Exchange, so this will provide one more incentive for businesses to upgrade their exchange servers. I think that the Best Buy.com deals are are the extra good chaser deals. If M$ had more sense they would shoot for around $100/$150 to get volume of sales. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 3:25 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: Apple is going to let you upgrade from puma to snow leopard for 29 bux? Not bad. Snow Leopard 10.6 requires an Intel Mac. $29 upgrade is from Leopard, 10.5. Apple sez: 'For Tiger® users with an Intel-based Mac, the Mac Box Set includes Mac OS X Snow Leopard, iLife® ’09 and iWork® ’09 and will be available for a suggested price of $169 (US) and a Family Pack is available for a suggested price of $229 (US).' http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/06/08macosx.html iLife + iWork + Snow Leopard = $99 + $99 + $129 = $327 without discount [$169 with discount]. How much will Windows 7 Pro alone cost when it's out of beta? Just rumors on pricing for Win7 so far. They seem way high especially after the Apple announcement. I skipped Leopard on the Mac and the $169 package looks pretty good. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Exchange is just one more proof of un-savvyness. Big, bulky, expensive, and fragile. The only reason to buy it is to keep upper management terrified of what will happen if IT is not around to constantly tend it. (I guess that is a perverse form of savvy.) Funny, my Mac users are jealous of the Windows users who have all of their information integrated in Exchange, especially the group scheduling component in the calendar. They never want to use Entourage. They insist on running Outlook 2001 in classic mode to get similar functionality. Of course, businesses could always buy one of the many hosted Exchange solutions and not have to worry about the upkeep at all. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
On Jun 10, 2009, at 7:33 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: They insist on running Outlook 2001 in classic mode to get similar functionality. (Psst, hey Jeff. It's 2009, going on 2010. You can't fake being savvy if you don't know that.) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
(Psst, hey Jeff. It's 2009, going on 2010. You can't fake being savvy if you don't know that.) I don't think my Mac users are even trying to fake being savvy any more. We call that learned helplessness. What can I say? They just insist on being troglodytes. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
On Jun 10, 2009, at 8:15 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: I don't think my Mac users are even trying to fake being savvy any more. We call that learned helplessness. What can I say? They just insist on being troglodytes. You have worn them down, just like you try (and fail) to do here. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Seems most users are comparing the cost of going from XP to 7 and then into snow leopard from 10.5. XP came out 8 years ago...even if 7 users pay 500 dollars it is less then Mac users have paid since 10.1 came out. On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:25 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: Apple is going to let you upgrade from puma to snow leopard for 29 bux? Not bad. Snow Leopard 10.6 requires an Intel Mac. $29 upgrade is from Leopard, 10.5. Apple sez: 'For Tiger® users with an Intel-based Mac, the Mac Box Set includes Mac OS X Snow Leopard, iLife® ’09 and iWork® ’09 and will be available for a suggested price of $169 (US) and a Family Pack is available for a suggested price of $229 (US).' http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/06/08macosx.html iLife + iWork + Snow Leopard = $99 + $99 + $129 = $327 without discount [$169 with discount]. How much will Windows 7 Pro alone cost when it's out of beta? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
You missed a step. If someone has not yet purchased an Intel based Mac they have to now buy an Intel based Mac so it would be even more costly. Stewart At 09:43 PM 6/10/2009, you wrote: Seems most users are comparing the cost of going from XP to 7 and then into snow leopard from 10.5. XP came out 8 years ago...even if 7 users pay 500 dollars it is less then Mac users have paid since 10.1 came out. On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:25 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: Apple is going to let you upgrade from puma to snow leopard for 29 bux? Not bad. Snow Leopard 10.6 requires an Intel Mac. $29 upgrade is from Leopard, 10.5. Apple sez: 'For Tiger® users with an Intel-based Mac, the Mac Box Set includes Mac OS X Snow Leopard, iLife® 09 and iWork® 09 and will be available for a suggested price of $169 (US) and a Family Pack is available for a suggested price of $229 (US).' http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/06/08macosx.html iLife + iWork + Snow Leopard = $99 + $99 + $129 = $327 without discount [$169 with discount]. How much will Windows 7 Pro alone cost when it's out of beta? Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Snow Leopard vs Leopard looks to be more of an SE type of upgrade, much like Win7 vs. Vista. Accordingly Apple will charge $29 for the upgrade. How many zeros will we need to add to that to get M$'s Win7 price? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
On Jun 8, 2009, at 5:06 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Apple makes money on two different components. Hardware and Software. They sell their OS for a smaller amount as they make more money (I have never seen a comparison but I bet it is provable) on their hardware. (I was told by an insider that Apple does not loose money on the Iphone, it is ATT that looses the money) Yes they make money at Itunes and the App store, but that is mostly selling a service. Therefore they can sell upgrades for a smaller amount. Totally bogus. Selling an OS upgrade that runs much faster than the previous OS does not generate hardware sales. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
You KNOW it runs faster? How long have you been running it? On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 3:34 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jun 8, 2009, at 5:06 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Apple makes money on two different components. Hardware and Software. They sell their OS for a smaller amount as they make more money (I have never seen a comparison but I bet it is provable) on their hardware. (I was told by an insider that Apple does not loose money on the Iphone, it is ATT that looses the money) Yes they make money at Itunes and the App store, but that is mostly selling a service. Therefore they can sell upgrades for a smaller amount. Totally bogus. Selling an OS upgrade that runs much faster than the previous OS does not generate hardware sales. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
They'll give you that version for free since you qualify. On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 3:32 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Jun 8, 2009, at 6:04 PM, Jeff Wright wrote: Accordingly Apple will charge $29 for the upgrade. How many zeros will we need to add to that to get M$'s Win7 price? None. Though a '1' at the bginning would do it most likely. How much if I don't want Windows Crippled Edition for Dummies? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Never been involved in retail marketing have you? Anything a company does is considered a revenue stream. Some companies make money on the front some make it on the back some make it every step of the way. I use Quick Verse as one of my Bible programs to look up Bible verses etc. There is a long story of the original company that marketed it but I wont go there. At present they come up with a new version about every year, and market it to try and make money. Problem is they just do not do that much to it, why would I want to upgrade it every stupid year? Our publishing house is selling a program and access to put together Worship Services via computer, including music and hymns etc. from our published Hymn Book. The only way to get this is to purchase a yearly license, copyright authorization and support fee. The first marketing plan counts on people continually buying upgrades (They give a discount but not much) the second method does not get you as much up front but continually delivers revenue over a longer period of time. OSX has come out with how many versions over the past 10 years? MS has had only three. XP, Vista and later this year Win 7. XP has had 3 SP and Vista has had 1. Windows did not charge for any of the updates or service packs over the years. If a person had purchased XP ,Vista (Home premium) and Win 7. They might have spent as much money on OS as a person buying all the different versions of OSX*.* over the same time period. What I said still holds true. Apples revenue stream is geared more toward hardware selling than software while MS's is geared the exact opposite. That does not make one better or more right it is just the simple truth. It does not matter for whatever reason you market a new OS (call it an upgrade call it a make over it does not matter) you want to make money on it. I would like to see Win 7 marketed just over the $100 mark to get it out there and into as many hands as it could possibly get into. No matter what type of authentication service you use someone will crack it. So market the crap out of it, price it at the sweet spot and sell the hell out of it. By the way if Apple is not a hardware company then tell me why you cannot simply buy their software and install on the PC of your choice? By making the OS dependent on a special hardware configuration, you automatically make it dependent on your hardware. (I mean without special configuration programs and having to go through all sorts of extreme actions to simply install it.) Stewart At 05:34 PM 6/8/2009, you wrote: On Jun 8, 2009, at 5:06 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Apple makes money on two different components. Hardware and Software. They sell their OS for a smaller amount as they make more money (I have never seen a comparison but I bet it is provable) on their hardware. (I was told by an insider that Apple does not loose money on the Iphone, it is ATT that looses the money) Yes they make money at Itunes and the App store, but that is mostly selling a service. Therefore they can sell upgrades for a smaller amount. Totally bogus. Selling an OS upgrade that runs much faster than the previous OS does not generate hardware sales. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Rev. Stewart Marshall Never been involved in retail marketing have you? Anything a company does is considered a revenue stream. Some companies make money on the front some make it on the back some make it every step of the way. marketing stuff snipped OSX has come out with how many versions over the past 10 years? Looks to be about 7 or 8 versions... MS has had only three. XP, Vista and later this year Win 7. (I'm a little confused now - there was Windows 3.0, Win98, Windows NT, etc.) XP has had 3 SP and Vista has had 1. Windows did not charge for any of the updates or service packs over the years. Apple also comes out with Service Packs, MS does theirs on a monthly basis with the occasional Oh! Crap! tossed in for good measure. Apple's patches aren't as frequent but they cost the same as the ones from MS (they're free). If a person had purchased XP ,Vista (Home premium) and Win 7. They might have spent as much money on OS as a person buying all the different versions of OSX*.* over the same time period. It seems that if a person buys a Windows upgrade they usually need to buy more horsepower to get performance. Apple seems to be able to deliver OS upgrades without requiring new h/w purchases. So, yes, people running Mac's can upgrade from 10.3 to 10.4 to 10.5 much easier than going from a 2005 era Windows XP installation to Windows Vista installation, but Windows 7 might be acceptable on the XP installation (reported to have acceptable performance on a netbook). I would like to see Win 7 marketed just over the $100 mark to get it out there and into as many hands as it could possibly get into. No matter what type of authentication service you use someone will crack it. So market the crap out of it, price it at the sweet spot and sell the hell out of it. Vista gave MS a bad reputation. After all of these patches, etc. it's probably okay, but the reputation lingers on. A good (read cheap) might remedy some of the reputation. -- Take care | This clown speaks for himself, his job doesn't Wayne D. | supply this, at least not directly Managing senior programmers is like herding cats! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
Totally bogus. Selling an OS upgrade that runs much faster than the previous OS does not generate hardware sales. Whoa. Dude. I say something about Win7, which I have actually used, and which millions of others are using every day, and I get this (just two hours ago): All you have to go on is a list of buzzwords from their PR department and some limited personal testing. So all this proves is that your gullibility score is much higher than mine. You, on the other hand, are allowed to make a definitive statement about Snow Leopard based on what? Apple PR and a couple YouTube videos? But my gullibility score is much higher than yours. Sure, Tom. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
On Jun 8, 2009, at 7:27 PM, Chris Dunford wrote: You, on the other hand, are allowed to make a definitive statement about Snow Leopard based on what? Apple PR and a couple YouTube videos? You completely miss the point. Why an I not surprised? The only definitive statement I made was $29. The rest was just a restatement of Apple's claim that the new version offers little more than performance gains. Your twisting a statement that the upgrade offers little into something else just makes you look foolish. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
(I'm a little confused now - there was Windows 3.0, Win98, Windows NT, etc.) The past 10 years, not 15-20 years. Apple also comes out with Service Packs, MS does theirs on a monthly basis with the occasional Oh! Crap! tossed in for good measure. Apple's patches aren't as frequent but they cost the same as the ones from MS (they're free). Service packs come out about every 2 years or so. The Oh crap! updates are monthly. And Apple's patches are just as frequent. Every month, like clockwork. Vista gave MS a bad reputation. After all of these patches, etc. it's probably okay, but the reputation lingers on. A good (read cheap) might remedy some of the reputation. I think this is in part due to relentless Apple marketing (46 I'm a Mac ads in every hour of television for every person on the planet wears you down after a bit) and a herd mentality in the tech writers' world. Vista wasn't bad, it was just underwhelming for a 5 year effort. It's a very stable (and easy on the eyes) and secure OS, that, unfortunately, has extreme hardware demands, curious organizational paradigms and a lax 3rd party peripheral industry that issues drivers when they get around to it. MS has clearly learned their lesson with Vista and isn't (so far) repeating the same mistakes on Windows 7. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
I was talking just over the past 10 years. 3, 3,1 3.11(WFW) were all versions of Windows that was run on top of DOS. 95, 98, 98se and Millennium were all versions of Windows stand alone products. (You did not need to install DOS as it was a part of and integral to these Windows versions.) The above groupings are usually how they are grouped. 95 was not a similar product as any of the 3.* versions. NT and 2000 were versions for business and not marketed to the consumer level although many consumers did run them. Both of these came in workstation and server models. So you have three separate lines of products up there. XP was introduced in 01 (October) So what I was comparing was XP, Vista, WIn 7 starting in October 01 and OSX was introduced in 02. XP, Vista, Win 7 are a separate line from the ones above and that was the comparison. Stewart At 06:25 PM 6/8/2009, you wrote: Looks to be about 7 or 8 versions... MS has had only three. XP, Vista and later this year Win 7. (I'm a little confused now - there was Windows 3.0, Win98, Windows NT, etc.) -- Take care | This clown speaks for himself, his job doesn't Wayne D. | supply this, at least not directly Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
The only definitive statement I made was $29. The rest was just a restatement of Apple's claim that the new version offers little more than performance gains. Your twisting a statement that the upgrade offers little into something else just makes you look foolish. You think that no one can look at the quoted text where you definitively state that Snow Leopard runs much faster? You don't understand that you are stating as fact something that you can only know from Apple PR, while criticizing WFBs for stating as fact things about Win7 that they know from actual use? Why am I not surprised? (See, anyone can use silly catch phrases.) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Apple Does it Right
The only definitive statement I made was $29. The rest was just a restatement of Apple's claim that the new version offers little more than performance gains. You think that no one can look at the quoted text where you definitively state that Snow Leopard runs much faster? You don't understand that you are stating as fact something that you can only know from Apple PR, while criticizing WFBs for stating as fact things about Win7 that they know from actual use? Why am I not surprised? (See, anyone can use silly catch phrases.) Snow Leopard was distributed months ago to beta testers, IT people who plan to use it in their companies, and authorized Mac trainers/consultants--could also be Tom. Apple's statements about this system are from real world experience and not simply Apple's PR about internal testing results. Our local user Mac group is very small, yet we have 4 members who have been using Snow Leopard since its first distribution. Used it on a MacBook Pro several times in the past few months. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
