Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 21:21:33 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: [...] > > The objective of Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside appears to be to put > > the user in his place. > > > Strangely, I got many thanks from this user, when I explained to him > about the fact that "top posting" doesn't make a easy to understand thread. > > And same came along when I explained to him that he could benefit from > having clearer subject. That's between you and the OP. I respond to what is on the list. > Even if the result seem to need some improvement. Keep working on it. Perfection takes some time. > I don't feel much justification and suggestion for improvement in the > messages you write, other than trying to say that I "put him in his place". > > May I ask if you even took 5 minutes of your time to give this user some > answer to his many questions ? Of course you may ask. You would have observed such an interaction. -- Brian.
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 09:21:33PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > Hi, > > On 2021-08-04 3:19 p.m., Brian wrote: > > On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 20:48:50 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > > > The previous remark about following all the different messages from > > -user is insulting, nevermind condescending. I think you're mis-quoting me here. Cheers - t signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Hi, On 2021-08-04 3:19 p.m., Brian wrote: > On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 20:48:50 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > The previous remark about following all the different messages from > -user is insulting, nevermind condescending. > It is of basic logic to see something as a whole before expressing on to the subject or at least, get a general idea of it. Cherrypicking messages and making opinion over this ain't going to help get a objective opinion. > The objective of Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside appears to be to put > the user in his place. > Strangely, I got many thanks from this user, when I explained to him about the fact that "top posting" doesn't make a easy to understand thread. And same came along when I explained to him that he could benefit from having clearer subject. Even if the result seem to need some improvement. I don't feel much justification and suggestion for improvement in the messages you write, other than trying to say that I "put him in his place". May I ask if you even took 5 minutes of your time to give this user some answer to his many questions ? -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Hi Greg, On 2021-08-04 3:30 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 08:19:25PM +0100, Brian wrote: >> The problem has now become the user? Who may be ignored, of course? > > The question, I think, is whether this *particular* user has crossed > the line from "well-meaning but failing" to malicious. > > I think they're still on the well-meaning side, and may benefit from > style suggestions. But I can see how other people might think they're > on the other side of the line, and need a stern warning. > > In either case, the approach they've been using so far is not getting > them the help that they ostensibly want. They *need* to change their > behavior if they actually want help. > I can only agree with you here. -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 22:34:20 (+), Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > Thank you David for the reminder > > I'm afraid that August sneaked up on me without me noticing. I've reposted > the FAQ and I've used some of the suggestions you've outlined in a new piece > about how to ask smart questions and read answers. I'd hate to take credit for Greg's work—I merely quoted just the headings from the second part. But thanks for posting it. (Reenacting https://xkcd.com/386/, but at my dinnertime.) Cheers, David.
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
trollhunter is one of my favorite films. I think recent international events have made everybody grumpy. mick -- Key ID4BFEBB31
Re: Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Thank you David for the reminder I'm afraid that August sneaked up on me without me noticing. I've reposted the FAQ and I've used some of the suggestions you've outlined in a new piece about how to ask smart questions and read answers. The general advice that is often given to go away and read Eric Raymond's piece on this is not very helpful. Although it is often quoted, it is quite hard to read and shows an attitude that is not helpful at times. People pop up on this list from time to time with problems and the other users here generate a storm of well-meaning advice. It is very easy to assume that you alone have all the answers - I do it far too often - and often the answers given don't really reflect the real underlying questions. It is also very easy to be upset or annoyed by someone's approach and know that you would do it better and respond accordingly. There's an xkcd cartoon for that: https://xkcd.com/386/ is still very relevant. Someone else's lack of relevant knowledge / inability to express themselves clearly shouldn't necessarily be directed back at them and someone asking "stupid questions" is not normally doing so deliberately -it's not always personal. All the very best to all reading (and contributing to) the list, as ever, Andrew Cater
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 13:31:53 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote: > Here's what I would suggest to Gunnar, and to anyone else who is not > getting the responses they want from a mailing list: > > 1) Only try to solve one problem at a time. [ … ] > > 2) Put all of the information you have into one message. [ … ] > > 3) Take your time writing. Mailing lists are not chat systems. [ … ] > > 4) Actually compose your message. Don't just write random sentences; [ … ] > > 5) Make sure your goal is clear. The Subject: header should be [ … ] > > 6) Provide all of the necessary details. [ … ] > > 7) If people request additional information, please provide it. [ … ] Good one. It might be possible to fold parts of this into Andrew's monthly post (which I've missed this month). > That's probably enough for now. Cheers, David.
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 12:35:29 (-0400), Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > >>> What command do you use ? > >>> Mostly the answer would be NO > >> *still waiting for answer* > > > > Seriously? You /wait/ for answers here? > > (Dare I say it), you /want/ another post from the OP? > No I don't wait for answer. > It's just a way to politely explain that if you want people to help out > then it would be the basic thing of answering when it seems that there's > some information missing and that we asked you something. > > And to do so, before, asking a bunch of other things or repeating the > same one. > > > > I think the idea with mailing lists is that you compose and post > > replies in your own time, and that conversations are open to > > interjections from all. I was under the impression that something > > called IRC was available for realtime chatting (though I've never tried it). > I know what is IRC I don't deny it. > and I'm sure Nor that. > what I meant is easily understood by > reading up in this message. Perhaps I find it difficult to understand *still waiting for answer* as a polite explanation. > Go try IRC Um, no. > and you'll see that this "Gunnar" is far from a exception and > trolling may be the rule on such system (IRC). I've already commented on someone else's suggestion of trolling, and so will add nothing more here, except to say that the expression this "Gunnar" is not a very polite way to refer to a person. (And no, don't let's revisit the October 2020 thread.) Cheers, David.
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 08:19:25PM +0100, Brian wrote: > The problem has now become the user? Who may be ignored, of course? The question, I think, is whether this *particular* user has crossed the line from "well-meaning but failing" to malicious. I think they're still on the well-meaning side, and may benefit from style suggestions. But I can see how other people might think they're on the other side of the line, and need a stern warning. In either case, the approach they've been using so far is not getting them the help that they ostensibly want. They *need* to change their behavior if they actually want help.
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 20:48:50 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 02:00:25PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > On 2021-08-04 1:18 p.m., to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > [...] > > > > but I do dislike the general tone. It is obvious that the OP is > > > having a hard time to express him/herself understandably [...] > > > Sorry, but it's more than a problem with expressing in English. > > I wasn't actually about specific language problems. Actually I > think the problems stem from other sources. Culture, perhaps. > Perhaps lack of practice expressing questions and providing > the necessary context. Whatever. The problem has now become the user? Who may be ignored, of course? > > Maybe you haven't followed all the different messages from all the user > > who answered him, tried giving him hint and more. > > I have. Still I feel the sometimes condescending, sometimes > downright hostile tone was unwarranted towards someone who > actually is trying. The previous remark about following all the different messages from -user is insulting, nevermind condescending. The objective of Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside appears to be to put the user in his place. -- Brian.
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 02:00:25PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > Hi, > > On 2021-08-04 1:18 p.m., to...@tuxteam.de wrote: [...] > > but I do dislike the general tone. It is obvious that the OP is > > having a hard time to express him/herself understandably [...] > Sorry, but it's more than a problem with expressing in English. I wasn't actually about specific language problems. Actually I think the problems stem from other sources. Culture, perhaps. Perhaps lack of practice expressing questions and providing the necessary context. Whatever. > Maybe you haven't followed all the different messages from all the user > who answered him, tried giving him hint and more. I have. Still I feel the sometimes condescending, sometimes downright hostile tone was unwarranted towards someone who actually is trying. > Regarding the "sophisticated trolling", let me express doubt about the > feeling of hostility you may see there. I think you should review the > level at which your trigger is raised, maybe some adjustment are needed. My trigger is my business, your trigger, yours :) Cheers - t signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 14:00:25 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > Hi, > > On 2021-08-04 1:18 p.m., to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 12:42:28PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside > > wrote: > >> Hi, > > > >> I don't know where you saw insinuation of malice. > > > > for example: > > > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/08/msg00167.html > > > > but I do dislike the general tone. It is obvious that the OP is > > having a hard time to express him/herself understandably, but > > (s)he has made attempts at fixing that. Talk like "bad manners", > > as other posters here have resorted to is downright hostile > > in that context. > > > Sorry, but it's more than a problem with expressing in English. > Maybe you haven't followed all the different messages from all the user > who answered him, tried giving him hint and more. > > As I tried too, whatever language you use, we all know that structuring > a message is important, answering when someone say "Hey there's info > missing", etc... This is not only something related to "I don't speak > English fluently" > > For my part, a personal crisis refer to someone who "In expectation to > get answer" will write the same question over again. > > Regarding the "sophisticated trolling", let me express doubt about the > feeling of hostility you may see there. I think you should review the > level at which your trigger is raised, maybe some adjustment are needed. I would suggest you stick to techniqual advice and ignore trying to educate the user. It makes for shorter threads and less friction. -- Brian.
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 19:18:38 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 12:42:28PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside > wrote: > > Hi, > > > I don't know where you saw insinuation of malice. > > for example: > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/08/msg00167.html Indeed. Insinuation-based. > but I do dislike the general tone. It is obvious that the OP is > having a hard time to express him/herself understandably, but > (s)he has made attempts at fixing that. Talk like "bad manners", > as other posters here have resorted to is downright hostile > in that context. Agreed. Putting the boot in is a well-known -user technique. -- Brian.
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Hi, On 2021-08-04 1:18 p.m., to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 12:42:28PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside > wrote: >> Hi, > >> I don't know where you saw insinuation of malice. > > for example: > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/08/msg00167.html > > but I do dislike the general tone. It is obvious that the OP is > having a hard time to express him/herself understandably, but > (s)he has made attempts at fixing that. Talk like "bad manners", > as other posters here have resorted to is downright hostile > in that context. > Sorry, but it's more than a problem with expressing in English. Maybe you haven't followed all the different messages from all the user who answered him, tried giving him hint and more. As I tried too, whatever language you use, we all know that structuring a message is important, answering when someone say "Hey there's info missing", etc... This is not only something related to "I don't speak English fluently" For my part, a personal crisis refer to someone who "In expectation to get answer" will write the same question over again. Regarding the "sophisticated trolling", let me express doubt about the feeling of hostility you may see there. I think you should review the level at which your trigger is raised, maybe some adjustment are needed. > Cheers > - t > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Hi Greg,
On 2021-08-04 1:31 p.m., Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 12:35:29PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside
> wrote:
>> Go try IRC and you'll see that this "Gunnar" is far from a exception and
>> trolling may be the rule on such system (IRC).
>
> At the moment, I see no evidence that Gunnar is trolling, although
> obviously I could be mistaken. He seems to be struggling with the
> English language, as well as the mailing list culture, as well as
> the multiple technical problems he's having.
>
Maybe trolling wasn't the right word, I wasn't the one who used if first.
I've said he was having some type of personal crisis in expecting
immediate answer or write again.
> I'm guessing he has more experience with web forums, social media, or
> "chat" systems than he does with mailing lists. His approach is one
> that I've seen before, fortunately not often. What I've observed:
>
I agree with the difference between chat and mailing list.
> 1) He does not take his time to compose messages and consolidate all
...
> 2) His writing is disorganized, in a way that goes beyond struggling
...
> 3) He has information available that he is *not* giving us. This is the
...
I have to agree on what you wrote here (and that I removed to make it
easier). But as Debian is one of the operating system that get the most
support from community, it's possible that many person don't run the
Distribution but try to get help here.
> Here's what I would suggest to Gunnar, and to anyone else who is not
> getting the responses they want from a mailing list:
>
> 1) Only try to solve one problem at a time. Pick the problem that you
>want to solve first, and focus exclusively on that. Don't get
>side-tracked.
>
> 2) Put all of the information you have into one message. If people have
>to collect your information from multiple separate messages, it
>greatly reduces the chances that people will spend the time and
>energy required to do this.
>
> 3) Take your time writing. Mailing lists are not chat systems. You
>will not get an answer in seconds. The people who respond to you
>will also take their time, trying to compose a useful reply.
>
>Your message, and the responses to it, will be archived and available
>for the whole world to see, forever. Try to make a good impression.
>
>Be sure to proofread. Spelling, grammar, and content errors will all
>cause confusion, especially in readers who are not fluent in English,
>or who are not top-tier experts in whatever technical issue you're
>having. If you're not fluent in English, just do the best you can.
>
> 4) Actually compose your message. Don't just write random sentences;
>write something that's easy to follow.
>
>Try to structure your message the way you would structure a school
>essay. Paragraphs should be coherent, with a main point (topic)
>and supporting details. Events that occur in chronological sequence
>should be written that way ("first A happens, then B happens").
>
>Don't write more than you have to, but don't write *less* than you need
>either. Skipping steps in your writing makes it a lot harder for
>the reader to follow.
>
> 5) Make sure your goal is clear. The Subject: header should be a brief
>summary of your issue, and the first paragraph of the body should be
>a longer description of it. If a random stranger can't tell what
>you're trying to do after reading the first paragraph, then your
>message isn't clear enough yet.
>
> 6) Provide all of the necessary details. At a bare minimum, this should
>include which version of Debian you're running, because this *is* a
>Debian mailing list. If your problem isn't about Debian, it's not
>on topic.
>
>If you're having a problem, you should provide enough information to
>reproduce the problem. What steps do you perform, from start to
>finish? What do you see/hear? Does the problem happen every time,
>or only sometimes? If you can reproduce the problem in a terminal
>session, then please paste that terminal session into the body of
>your message. If the problem only happens in X or Wayland, try to
>describe what you're doing, and what's happening, as best you can.
>
>If you're trying to accomplish something, then there won't always
>be a description of steps taken, because you might not even know
>how to begin. But if you *did* try something already (which didn't
>work), it would be helpful to say what you tried, and what happened,
>and how this differs from your desired outcome.
>
>If you're using a specific piece of software, tell us exactly what it
>is -- its name and its version number. If it came from Debian, give
>us the Debian package's version number. If it did *not* come from
>Debian, be sure to say this, and tell us where it came from, and its
>upstream version number.
>
> 7)
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 12:35:29PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Go try IRC and you'll see that this "Gunnar" is far from a exception and
> trolling may be the rule on such system (IRC).
At the moment, I see no evidence that Gunnar is trolling, although
obviously I could be mistaken. He seems to be struggling with the
English language, as well as the mailing list culture, as well as
the multiple technical problems he's having.
I'm guessing he has more experience with web forums, social media, or
"chat" systems than he does with mailing lists. His approach is one
that I've seen before, fortunately not often. What I've observed:
1) He does not take his time to compose messages and consolidate all
of the information available. Rather, he writes whatever thought
he has in the moment, and sends it immediately. If he has another
thought 30 seconds later, he sends that as well, in a new message,
possibly even a new thread.
2) His writing is disorganized, in a way that goes beyond struggling
with the language. He doesn't lay out a clear message -- "This is
what I want to do, here is what I tried, and here is what happened."
Even if he struggles with English, he should still be able to draw
a basic outline of the situation.
Most of his messages are so disjointed that I don't even attempt to
piece together what he's asking. I've just been deleting them.
3) He has information available that he is *not* giving us. This is the
most frustrating aspect. I don't know about other readers, but this
instantly raises red flags for me. I immediately suspect that
we're getting an intentionally misleading picture, and possibly
outright lies, in addition to the omissions.
On IRC, what this usually means is that the user in question is not
running Debian. And yet they want #debian to support them. They
*know* that they will not be supported when it becomes known that
they're not running Debian, and yet they withhold information, they
deceive, and they sometimes lie, all in some sort of desperate attempt
to get support from the wrong channel. This happens *way* too often.
Here's what I would suggest to Gunnar, and to anyone else who is not
getting the responses they want from a mailing list:
1) Only try to solve one problem at a time. Pick the problem that you
want to solve first, and focus exclusively on that. Don't get
side-tracked.
2) Put all of the information you have into one message. If people have
to collect your information from multiple separate messages, it
greatly reduces the chances that people will spend the time and
energy required to do this.
3) Take your time writing. Mailing lists are not chat systems. You
will not get an answer in seconds. The people who respond to you
will also take their time, trying to compose a useful reply.
Your message, and the responses to it, will be archived and available
for the whole world to see, forever. Try to make a good impression.
Be sure to proofread. Spelling, grammar, and content errors will all
cause confusion, especially in readers who are not fluent in English,
or who are not top-tier experts in whatever technical issue you're
having. If you're not fluent in English, just do the best you can.
4) Actually compose your message. Don't just write random sentences;
write something that's easy to follow.
Try to structure your message the way you would structure a school
essay. Paragraphs should be coherent, with a main point (topic)
and supporting details. Events that occur in chronological sequence
should be written that way ("first A happens, then B happens").
Don't write more than you have to, but don't write *less* than you need
either. Skipping steps in your writing makes it a lot harder for
the reader to follow.
5) Make sure your goal is clear. The Subject: header should be a brief
summary of your issue, and the first paragraph of the body should be
a longer description of it. If a random stranger can't tell what
you're trying to do after reading the first paragraph, then your
message isn't clear enough yet.
6) Provide all of the necessary details. At a bare minimum, this should
include which version of Debian you're running, because this *is* a
Debian mailing list. If your problem isn't about Debian, it's not
on topic.
If you're having a problem, you should provide enough information to
reproduce the problem. What steps do you perform, from start to
finish? What do you see/hear? Does the problem happen every time,
or only sometimes? If you can reproduce the problem in a terminal
session, then please paste that terminal session into the body of
your message. If the problem only happens in X or Wayland, try to
describe what you're doing, and what's happening, as best you can.
If you're trying to accomplish something, then there won't
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 12:42:28PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > Hi, > I don't know where you saw insinuation of malice. for example: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/08/msg00167.html but I do dislike the general tone. It is obvious that the OP is having a hard time to express him/herself understandably, but (s)he has made attempts at fixing that. Talk like "bad manners", as other posters here have resorted to is downright hostile in that context. Cheers - t signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Hi, On 2021-08-04 9:12 a.m., to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 08:35:46AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: >> Intentioinally top posting: This whole exchange, in various threads, seems >> to >> be bordering on the toxic and I'd like to see it improved somehow. > > Thanks. Helping someone to improve isn't a justification to jump all > over him/her, and I, too, have the impression that this line was being > crossed. Including the insinuation of malice on the OP's part. > I don't know where you saw insinuation of malice. Could it be possible that someone is just acting in good faith and unknowingly causing his own fail by not expressing in a way he can be understood ? I'm pretty sure this is yes. Is it possible someone is missing some understanding on what to expect and how to optimize the possibility of being helped ? Again I'm pretty sure. How is it possible to learn if no one tells you and people just ignore. Sorry, but it wouldn't be better to just ignore this guy and let people answer him once, get tired after some exchange of mail and just let go. Everything I said was mostly supported by many other user. Including the explanation regarding "top posting" which didn't seem to have been understood more than for answering two or three message afterward. >> Suggestions? > > I propose everyone takes a step back and thinks :-) > Can I ask, have you tried to answer one of his questions and helping out ? Or is it only that you are bothered because of the noise this create on the mailing list... Ignoring people without telling them why we don't want to get into the drama of helping out is not a sensible way of acting. > Cheers > - t > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Hi, >>> What command do you use ? >>> Mostly the answer would be NO >> *still waiting for answer* > > Seriously? You /wait/ for answers here? > (Dare I say it), you /want/ another post from the OP? No I don't wait for answer. It's just a way to politely explain that if you want people to help out then it would be the basic thing of answering when it seems that there's some information missing and that we asked you something. And to do so, before, asking a bunch of other things or repeating the same one. > > I think the idea with mailing lists is that you compose and post > replies in your own time, and that conversations are open to > interjections from all. I was under the impression that something > called IRC was available for realtime chatting (though I've never tried it). > I know what is IRC and I'm sure what I meant is easily understood by reading up in this message. Go try IRC and you'll see that this "Gunnar" is far from a exception and trolling may be the rule on such system (IRC). >> > > Cheers, > David. > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
On Wed 04 Aug 2021 at 06:55:02 (-0400), Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > Hi, > > On 2021-08-04 6:49 a.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote: > > Thx > Thanks, nothing prohibit you from writing complete words. > > If you want really to get help maybe read and answer questions people > ask you ? And not only ask others, because it's starting to be politely > useless here. > > > > On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 13:43 Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside, > > mailto:deb...@polynamaude.com>> wrote: > > y cd or dvd. > > What command do you use ? > > Mostly the answer would be NO > *still waiting for answer* Seriously? You /wait/ for answers here? (Dare I say it), you /want/ another post from the OP? I think the idea with mailing lists is that you compose and post replies in your own time, and that conversations are open to interjections from all. I was under the impression that something called IRC was available for realtime chatting (though I've never tried it). > > To burn cd there's many options, some are command line (text mode) and > > other GUI. > > > > -- > > Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside > > -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development > > > > -- > Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside > -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development > Cheers, David.
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 08:35:46AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > Intentioinally top posting: This whole exchange, in various threads, seems to > be bordering on the toxic and I'd like to see it improved somehow. Thanks. Helping someone to improve isn't a justification to jump all over him/her, and I, too, have the impression that this line was being crossed. Including the insinuation of malice on the OP's part. > Suggestions? I propose everyone takes a step back and thinks :-) Cheers - t signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: HOW's lost @ $ €
On 4/8/21 20:35, Gunnar Gervin wrote: Seems to me this old Mac can't boot from usb, This link https://www.uubyte.com/boot-mac-from-usb.html and this https://recoverit.wondershare.com/mac-tips/boot-from-usb-drive-mac.html say hold the option key from power on; as well as detailed info about creating a bootable usb -- All the best Keith Bainbridge keith.bainbridge.3...@gmail.com 0447 667 468
Re: Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Intentioinally top posting: This whole exchange, in various threads, seems to be bordering on the toxic and I'd like to see it improved somehow. Suggestions? On Wednesday, August 04, 2021 06:55:02 AM Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > On 2021-08-04 6:49 a.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote: > > Thx > > Thanks, nothing prohibit you from writing complete words.
Re: HOW's lost @ $ EUR
Hi, Gunnar Gervin wrote: > The commands to burn iso to usb, are they usable for dvd, too? This depends on the medium type and state. Those commands can work with BD-RE, DVD-RAM, DVD+RW, formatted DVD-RW (via a packet device set up by pktsetup(1) from package udftools), and formatted CD-RW (formatted by cdrwtool(1) from udftools). But normally optical media are written by burn programs. See Debian's advise at https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#record-unix https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#record-windows https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#record-mac In general it is important to select the program's operation mode for writing a preformatted image to medium, rather than the mode where the user composes an own filesystem from one or more files. Have a nice day :) Thomas
Manners and useful subject [was Re: HOW's lost @ $ €]
Hi, On 2021-08-04 6:49 a.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote: > Thx Thanks, nothing prohibit you from writing complete words. If you want really to get help maybe read and answer questions people ask you ? And not only ask others, because it's starting to be politely useless here. > > On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 13:43 Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside, > mailto:deb...@polynamaude.com>> wrote: > y cd or dvd. > What command do you use ? > Mostly the answer would be NO *still waiting for answer* > To burn cd there's many options, some are command line (text mode) and > other GUI. > > -- > Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside > -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: HOW's lost @ $ €
Hi, On 2021-08-04 6:43 a.m., Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > Hi, > > On 2021-08-04 6:35 a.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote: > > You seem (again) to have a problem writing useful title for your messages. > Gunnar wrote a message saying "HOW", great we all know what he's asking for before even reading his message. Great, I know if I could help him before trying to understand what he wrote. Don't you think there's a use for subject line ? When someone write to you, how do you know what they want ? Mostly the subject line. Same goes on here. Seems like some basic stuff don't quite get it. I don't know how old you are and what's your experience of life but the problem seems to be much more profound than one related to the use of Debian or Linux, or even computer at all. >> Hi again, all. >> I decided to reinstall, to get back >> Xfce, Synaptic, @ $ € , and clean away the mess I probably made with a >> rogue command as root. >> Seems to me this old Mac can't boot from usb, only cd or dvd. > What command do you use ? > Mostly the answer would be NO > To burn cd there's many options, some are command line (text mode) and > other GUI. > > search on packages.debian.org to find which software is available. > >> The commands to burn iso to usb, are they usable for dvd, too? >> 2 other questions: >> 1. It was optional to set "for slow memory" as an extra service during >> installation. What is that? >> 2. Why does graphics use some of the memory? > Why does graphis use some memory ? > Is this serious ? > Because graphics need to be stored somewhere and they don't fit in the > cookie jar. It take more space to store a picture (or graphic) than a > text string saying "How to do this". >> BR, >> Gunnar >> >> In 2023 we'll be free > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: HOW's lost @ $ €
Hi, On 2021-08-04 6:35 a.m., Gunnar Gervin wrote: You seem (again) to have a problem writing useful title for your messages. > Hi again, all. > I decided to reinstall, to get back > Xfce, Synaptic, @ $ € , and clean away the mess I probably made with a > rogue command as root. > Seems to me this old Mac can't boot from usb, only cd or dvd. What command do you use ? Mostly the answer would be NO To burn cd there's many options, some are command line (text mode) and other GUI. search on packages.debian.org to find which software is available. > The commands to burn iso to usb, are they usable for dvd, too? > 2 other questions: > 1. It was optional to set "for slow memory" as an extra service during > installation. What is that? > 2. Why does graphics use some of the memory? Why does graphis use some memory ? Is this serious ? Because graphics need to be stored somewhere and they don't fit in the cookie jar. It take more space to store a picture (or graphic) than a text string saying "How to do this". > BR, > Gunnar > > In 2023 we'll be free -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
HOW's lost @ $ €
Hi again, all. I decided to reinstall, to get back Xfce, Synaptic, @ $ € , and clean away the mess I probably made with a rogue command as root. Seems to me this old Mac can't boot from usb, only cd or dvd. The commands to burn iso to usb, are they usable for dvd, too? 2 other questions: 1. It was optional to set "for slow memory" as an extra service during installation. What is that? 2. Why does graphics use some of the memory? BR, Gunnar In 2023 we'll be free
