[freenet-dev] bug(s)
java.io.FileNotFoundException: store/temp/t1d0a3bb5 (Too many open files) java.io.FileNotFoundException: store/temp/t1d0a3bb5 (Too many open files) at java.io.FileOutputStream.open(Native Method) at java.io.FileOutputStream. (FileOutputStream.java:97) at freenet.support.FileBucket$FileBucketOutputStream. (FileBucket.java:82) at freenet.support.FileBucket.newFileBucketOutputStream(FileBucket.java:67) at freenet.support.FileBucket.getOutputStream(FileBucket.java:59) at freenet.client.http.filter.SaferFilter.run(SaferFilter.java:87) at freenet.client.http.FproxyServlet.doGet(FproxyServlet.java:672) at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:740) at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:853) at freenet.interfaces.servlet.ServletContainer.handle(ServletContainer.java:63) at freenet.interfaces.LocalInterface$ConnectionShell.run(LocalInterface.java:279) at freenet.thread.QThreadFactory$QThread.run(QThreadFactory.java:213) -- MacOSX: It's not the speed, which matters, it's the feeling. Esperanto: Estas vizio kaj espereble estas estonto. Wenn die Signatur dieser E-Mail verifizierbar ist, dann wurde ihr Inhalt auf dem Weg zu ihnen nicht verändert. (Infos: http://www.gnupg.org ) PGP.sig Description: PGP signature
Re: [freenet-dev] git/hg hosting
Am Freitag 03 April 2009 00:44:37 schrieb Ian Clarke: If we go with git and github they do support post-receive hooks: http://github.com/guides/post-receive-hooks I think the workflow can and should be very similar to what it is currently, with developers pushing to a single authoritative repository. The same is true for hg and bitbucket.org (though the corresponding Mercurial hook is incoming). But both also offer far more possibilities. For example the question arises how to deal with pseudonymous contributions. If you take a psudonymous patch, how to take care of the copyright? Does freenet then need an anonymous repository where someone assembles an anonymous version which includes the patches of dubious legality? And who will trust that version? I can't help much with git (I gave up on it after it bit me once too often), but if you have questions about hg, I should be able to answer them - or at least find someone who is :) Besides: Hi, I'm ArneBab from IRC, freenet user for more than 5 years, almost 24/7 since I switched to GNU/Linux, and avid Mercurial user for a year, now :) PS: For strengths and weaknesses of hg and git (and bzr), you can have a look at the excellent DVCS PEP of Python. They analysed which DVCS would be suited best for their different usecases: - http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0374/ PPS: If I write anything which was already discussed, please nudge me. I only skimmed part of the archives. -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] git/hg hosting
Am Freitag 03 April 2009 02:22:05 schrieb Daniel Cheng: DVCS does _NOT_ means accepting anonymous contribution. However, if we want to, there is nothing stopping us. Personally I think it important for freenet to slowly establish a workflow where people contribute pseudonymously, because that will build a group of trusted committers which will be essential should freenet ever be outlawed. Also that will open the way to a seamless transition to completely freenet- based development. For that workflow freenet needs to use a DVCS. This is no different from what we have been doing. Lots of translation come from anonymous. And I have been committing under the name Daniel Cheng, but nobody have ever verified my id. But you can bet tracked down (you're posting in this ML...). I don't know what a copyright lawyer will say to completely anonymous contributions, so the VCS of Freenet should allow for pseudonymous management of the anonymous contributions. PS: For strengths and weaknesses of hg and git (and bzr), you can have a look at the excellent DVCS PEP of Python. They analysed which DVCS would be suited best for their different usecases: - http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0374/ Hg is written in python. I have no question they can script Hg like me scripting Git.. This is an extra advantage for them, but not us. [...] Naturally hg being Python based is an extra advantage for Python - that's why I said look at it, and not follow their decision without thinking. They created a nice resource for projects switching from SVN. Every DVCSs part was written by a supporter of that DVCS. Logically the text has a bias towards Python, but since it's a Python PEP noone can claim he didn't know about that bias :) git in turn is written in C, bash and perl, which makes it harder to use for Windows users. What kind of scripts do you use? I ask, because as long as you don't do low-level index manipulation or similar plumbing stuff, you should be able to do the same with Mercurial - without using Python. Hooks for example are just shell commands defined in the repositories hgrc file (and can also call any kind of script). I use outgoing hooks to simply call lftp for uploading changed files when I do simple web development. Similarly the Mercurial shell interface (and its templating options) allow to easily use shell scripts for more highlevel tasks. Besides: I'll try to keep my posts focussed, because I already had one long git vs. hg discussion, and I assume you had yours, too - one initiation into the deep guts of DVCSs suffices :) Also I'm new to this list. Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] git/hg hosting
Am Freitag 03 April 2009 12:18:11 schrieb Florent Daignière: Sure we can do that... but how integrated are the PGP/GPG modules with git/hg? What about the GUI versions? At least for hg you can just activate the gpg extension (distributed with hg) and can then sign changesets with $ hg sign [REVISION] I didn't yet try to use TortoiseHG for signing. ctivate the extension by adding the following in .hg/hgrc (for one single repository) or ~/.hgrc (for the user) [extensions] hgext.gpg = At least for Mercurial, more efficient than enforcing signatures for all commits would be to only allow a push, if all heads are signed or are signature commits coming after a signed commit, because that means that someone checked all new commits leading to the heads. Since Mercurial history is considered as mostly immutable (you need to activate history changing extensions to modify it, and you can't delete changes in others repositories - though you can revert them), this means that each set of changes will be checked before it gets into the main repo. This would also allow a workflow, where someone acts as gatekeeper and pulls contributions from others, which he/she then verifies, signs and pushes to the main repo. The contributions from others can for example be in anonymous repositories on freenet or can be sent by (free-)mail as patches. Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] git/hg hosting
Am Freitag 03 April 2009 17:19:13 schrieb David ‘Bombe’ Roden: On Friday 03 April 2009 14:14:41 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: $ hg sign [REVISION] git tag -s name commit -m message Is that a GnuPG signed tag? Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] git/hg hosting
Am Samstag 04 April 2009 03:29:57 schrieb David ‘Bombe’ Roden: On Friday 03 April 2009 18:29:04 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: $ hg sign [REVISION] git tag -s name commit -m message Is that a GnuPG signed tag? Yes. Check [1] for an example. Thanks! (also to Daniel Cheng who answered first :) ) Can you also sign a revision without tagging it? Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] git/hg hosting
Am Samstag 04 April 2009 22:50:11 schrieb Matthew Toseland: Agreed, however we need to be careful as we can be sued for any code which is copyrighted by somebody else; if we can provide the would-be litigant with the identity of the committer, we don't have this problem. Sure. That's why someone needs to maintain a frenet-only pseudonymous version of the repository where all pseudonymous contributions can be gathered. :) That pseudonymous version can then contain additional features, so users have a rason for switching to it. We just need to find a way to make sure that this pseudonymous repository doesn't get compromised. I think it would be nice to do this as repository which can be updated only if at least 60% of a specific group of people agree. Ideally with also the option of adding new people to the group if enough people agree? Example: Assume that we have 5 trusted maintainers. If one of them now wants to push some changes to the reference repository, at least two others have to agree to get the new revision into freenet. If another maintainer joins the group, they need 4 people for pushing code online, and if two leave the group, two people suffice. (joining and leaving would need to be done as greoup decision - needs 3 of 5 for example). It would be possible to implement this check decentrally: Each head must be signed by a majority of the keys which are saved in freenet to be accepted locally, else the foreign repository will be marked as compromised. If the list of trusted keys is part of the repository, it will be possible to update them. Ideally there should also be a mechanism for backup locations and changing them. For example this could be done by having a list of them in the repository. When the main repository gets compromised, freenet should check the backups for updates. Adding in a few safety checks (always need backup locations and a minimum number of maintainers), this looks to me like it should work. Are there any weeknesses in this scheme (except the possibility that the majority of maintainers overlooks some bad code)? Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] git/hg hosting
Am Dienstag 07 April 2009 10:28:30 schrieb Daniel Cheng: git tag -s name commit -m message Can you also sign a revision without tagging it? No. In DVCS model, signing single revision does not make sense -- since you will merge / rebase that revision as soon as it is merged. I think it does make sense as long as you don't rewrite history. Every signed revision is a certified step on the way, but the signature is only relevant to automatic verification tools, not to users - except where a tag gets signed and the users want to be sure by whom the tag was created. Signed tags for each verified revision create quite much unnecessary noise. But since the decision is now set, that freenet will switch to git and lose history (ouch!), someone else will have to write the verification framework. Doing it in Mercurial is quite simple (I sketched one in my analog notebook while in on sunday), but I know far too little about git to try to do something similar there. Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] workflow concept: automatic trusted group of committers (untested)
Am Freitag 10 April 2009 18:30:29 schrieb Matthew Toseland: I think it would be nice to do this as repository which can be updated only if at least 60% of a specific group of people agree. Why is that beneficial relative to a fully distributed model of people pulling if they like a patch? Because then you don't have to ever trust one single developer (who might just have been caught by evil corp™) and at the same time you don't have to doublecheck every change yourself. You get a trusted group of committers with some room for people dropping out. But it would be much better if each trusted person could have his own revocation key, and they could vote on adding new trusted people / kicking them out, and on recovery from a compromise of the main key. The scheme below should offer a way to do that. Are there any weeknesses in this scheme (except the possibility that the majority of maintainers overlooks some bad code)? Dunno... I reworked the scheme while I was in train this weekend (for mercurial). Goal: A workflow where the repository gets updated only from repositories whose heads got signed by at least a certain percentage of trusted committers. Requirements: Mercurial, two hooks for checking and three special files in the repo. The hooks do all the work - apart from them, the repo is just a normal Mercurial repository. After cloning it, you only need to setup the hooks to activate the workflow. Hooks: prechangegroup and pretxnchangegroup Files: .hgtrustedkeys , .hgbackuprepos , .hgtrustminimum concept: - prechangegroup: Copy the local versions of the files for access in the pretxnchangegroup hook (might be unnecessary by letting the pretxnchangegroup hook use the rollback-info). - pretxnchangegroup: * per head: check if the tipmost non-signature changeset has been GnuPG signed by enough trusted keys. * If not all heads have enough signatures, rollback, discard the current default repo and replace it with the backup repo which has the most changesets we lack. Continue discarding bad repos until you find one with enough signatures. .hgtrustedkeys contains a list of public GnuPG keys. .hgbackuprepos contains a list of (pull) links to backup repositories. .hgtrustminimum contains the percentage of keys from which a signature is needed for a head to be accepted. With this workflow you can even do automatic update from the repository. It should be ideal for release repositories of distributed projects. Please tell me what you think about it! Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Current uservoice top 5 (20 node barrier)
Am Dienstag 21 April 2009 17:41:59 schrieb Theodore Hong: VolodyA! V Anarhist volo...@whengendarmesleeps.org wrote: Matthew Toseland wrote: If you watch the 'Human body' documentary it says that humans have on average 20 people they call friends. I am unsure where that number comes from, but if it's some scientific study, that's another reason to keep 20 node limit, or if we increase it than it shouldn't be more than something like 25. There's a thing called Dunbar's number which supposedly represents an upper cognitive limit on the number of friendships that a person can keep track of - estimated to be around 150. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number So we get to the question, what a freenet contact is: A friend or an aquaintance. If you look at myspace and similar sites, you'll see people with hundreds of friends which in truth are aquaintances. Also the question arises, which number of friends will be efficient for freenets algorithm: How many people have similar interest? The wikipedia entry suggests that specialized academic interest groups are in the size of 150 individuals. The same might be true for other specialized groups. If all members of such a group were using freenet: Should they all have every other member of the group as freenet friends, or should they only have their closest contacts? If they should have more contacts, we'll need stronger friend interaction features, so we can keep the cost for social interaction with friends low. A Jabber server which automatically adds all friends as contacts would be an option, I think. Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Current uservoice top 5 (20 node barrier)
Am Mittwoch 22 April 2009 14:38:29 schrieb Matthew Toseland: other member of the group as freenet friends, or should they only have their closest contacts? I don't know. IMHO 150 is probably too much, have you spoken privately to all these people? I think all people I know privately, including school and university, account for maybe 100 to 120 people. Of them I'd trust about 40 as connections :) If I add people I only know via email, these numbers go up to maybe 150/50. If they should have more contacts, we'll need stronger friend interaction features, so we can keep the cost for social interaction with friends low. We need stronger friend interaction features full stop. How about a shoutbox as first step? There you can send messages to all your contacts. Naturally each shoutbox will have different entries, so it's no real chat, but at least it would allow giving quick status messages (that's the main communication i did: Sorry, my box was down for a day - I'm up again :) A Jabber server which automatically adds all friends as contacts would be an option, I think. Hmmm perhaps. It would also add better information about online contacts - directly in the multi-messenger people use anyways. Maybe it could even get control features, like the jabber server from livejournal (you can post LJ entries via jabber). Another option would be IRC :) But both have the drawback of drawing people away from the webinterface, which increases the maintenance cost for toad. Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Current uservoice top 5 (20 node barrier)
Am Mittwoch 22 April 2009 14:57:06 schrieb Matthew Toseland: But both have the drawback of drawing people away from the webinterface, which increases the maintenance cost for toad. Not sure I follow. They'd be another interface and someone would have to keep it up to date and working when things change. Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Current uservoice top 5 (20 node barrier)
Am Mittwoch 22 April 2009 15:15:07 schrieb VolodyA! V Anarhist: Wouldn't IRC/Jabber break anonymity ? Or, maybe you're speaking of IRC/Jabber over Freenet and i'm wrong ... It would only let people know that you are running Freenet, not what you are doing with it. And whom you are compromising that information to is also an issue, if you only announce to your friends that you are willing to connect to anyhow that you are using Freenet, then you aren't compromised any more than you would otherwise. It wouldn't even let unrelated people know you're running freenet. They would only know that you're running a jabber server (which can easily explain strange encrypted traffic :) ). And as you said, the jabber server would only be open to your freenet contacts, and they have your IP anyway. I don't know about all jabber internals, but if it would be open only for your friends, you'd be as safe as you already are when runnign freenet. Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Current uservoice top 5 (20 node barrier)
Am Mittwoch 22 April 2009 15:53:39 schrieb Matthew Toseland: I don't understand why you want to run a jabber server. Surely announcing to your jabber contacts that you are interested in ref exchange would be sufficient, and would be client level? I don't mean announcing to your jabber contacts that you'd like to exchange refs (though that would be a nice option, too). I mean having all freenet refs as jabber contacts automatically, and having a freenet jabber ID based on your ref. That way communication with peers would become far easier (it can just rely on jabbers own encryption - you're open to your peers anyway - and it can automatically use all features people develop for jabber). That way I'd just add my freenet jabber ID in my noderef with 127.0.0.1 as server, and freenet would add all my refs as jabber contacts for that freenet jabber ID. Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Non-convergent encryption kills easy filesharing
Am Mittwoch 22 April 2009 18:26:05 schrieb Matthew Toseland: block [16:39:31] toad_ duplicating the top block can be done with SSKs very easily [16:39:40] toad_ but with CHKs it requires much longer URIs [16:39:43] toad_ is that a problem? [16:40:04] p0s how much longer? [16:40:10] toad_ CHK@routing key,decrypt key,extra - CHK@routing key 1,routing key 2,routing key 3,decrypt key,extra [16:40:29] toad_ i.e. at least twice as long I stopped reading at about the middle, so it might be that I missed something, but why do you care if CHKs become longer? They are already so long that noone types them (I hope), and I really don't care if the key I copy-paste has two times the length. They are longer than my browser window is wide, so I won't even notice it, if they become longer. And on freesites, we'll use links anyway, where the form of the URL doesn't really matter. So if only the key length keeps you from doing the right thing, just do the right thing anyway. Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Non-convergent encryption kills easy filesharing
Am Donnerstag 23 April 2009 09:25:15 schrieb xor: -Original Message- From: devl-boun...@freenetproject.org [mailto:devl-boun...@freenetproject.org] On Behalf Of Arne Babenhauserheide Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:14 AM To: devl@freenetproject.org Subject: Re: [freenet-dev] Non-convergent encryption kills easy filesharing Am Mittwoch 22 April 2009 18:26:05 schrieb Matthew Toseland: block [16:39:31] toad_ duplicating the top block can be done with SSKs very easily [16:39:40] toad_ but with CHKs it requires much longer URIs [16:39:43] toad_ is that a problem? [16:40:04] p0s how much longer? [16:40:10] toad_ CHK@routing key,decrypt key,extra - CHK@routing key 1,routing key 2,routing key 3,decrypt key,extra [16:40:29] toad_ i.e. at least twice as long I stopped reading at about the middle, so it might be that I missed something, but why do you care if CHKs become longer? They are already so long that noone types them (I hope), and I really don't care if the key I copy-paste has two times the length. If they are exchanged via Freetalk it will bloat the messages. Further, I was told to implement CHK messages in Freetalk because messages could not fit into SSK. So now Freetalk uses SSK message lists to publish CHK URI of the messages... If the CHK URI become insanely long then the message lists will be bloated very much and maybe only five messages or so will fit into a SSK message list. Sucks. So why don't you take the approach of filesystems and add an option where the message list SSK can contain a link to a CHK which contains all message CHK URIs? (that's what ext2 does with inodes to support almost arbitrarily large files, though each inodes is only 4k in size) If the efficiency of CHKs should rise by more than a factor of 2 when using the large URI instead of non-republishable URIs, freetalk will even profit from this (ping time wise). But I don't know the implementation details of freetalk, so I don't know if this is a possible option for you. Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Solving I queued it 2 weeks ago and it's still at 0% : are really long URIs a problem?
Am Donnerstag 23 April 2009 15:16:40 schrieb Matthew Toseland: Arguably nobody ever types CHKs even now, and copy and paste allows for fairly long keys. Thoughts? You know what I think. The length of the key doesn't matter to me, because freesites already hide them in links, and otherwise I just copy-paste them. I didn't ever watch my downloads long enough to say where exactly they stop. I just start them, and if they didn't finish in a week, I remove them again. I don't trust my memory enough to say much about the state. Many didn't even start, but I'm not sure in which state they were... Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Current uservoice top 5 (20 node barrier)
Am Mittwoch 22 April 2009 14:53:45 schrieb Arne Babenhauserheide: Am Mittwoch 22 April 2009 14:38:29 schrieb Matthew Toseland: I don't know. IMHO 150 is probably too much, have you spoken privately to all these people? I think all people I know privately, including school and university, account for maybe 100 to 120 people. Of them I'd trust about 40 as connections :) To test the 150 people limit for the monkey space, my wife and I just did a test by counting all people we know personally and care about (we were walking to the supermarket, so we had some free time :) ). I got to over 200, and she got to over 300, so 150 is a bit too low as upper boundary, I'd say (the article didn't say 150, by the way, but 100 to 230 for 95%). But of these 200 I'd trust only 50 enough that they'd keep the information private that I run freenet - she'd trust about 30 people enough (less tech savvy community :) ). So for pretty communicative people who mostly know tech geeks 150 to 200 friends might be a good bet (for most tech geeks the number is likely to be lower, though). (I hope you don't mind my wording. Geek is no insult for me, and neither is Nerd) Just wanted to give you the data :) I have a question, though: Would it help routing if people would exchange refs with other people who have similar interests? If yes: Can you guess how much it would help? Best wishes, Arne -- -- Ein Würfel System: http://1w6.org - einfach saubere (Rollenspiel-) Regeln. -- Infinite Hands: http://infinite-hands.draketo.de - singing a part of the history of free software. -- My stuff: http://draketo.de - stories, songs, poems, programs and stuff :) -- PGP/GnuPG: http://draketo.de/inhalt/ich/pubkey.txt signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Our current web interface and its usability
Am Donnerstag 23 April 2009 22:05:18 schrieb Robert Hailey: The Freenet software running on your computer is probably what I would use to describe what node means to non-techy users. Couldn't it just use Your computer is downloading this page from Freenet, that's what people want to know, It creates a problem in Germany, since we also have a hosting company named freenet. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] workflow concept: automatic trusted group of committers (untested)
Am Montag 27 April 2009 17:11:54 schrieb Arne Babenhauserheide: Am Dienstag 14 April 2009 12:22:12 schrieb Arne Babenhauserheide: A workflow where the repository gets updated only from repositories whose heads got signed by at least a certain percentage of trusted committers. Could someone comment on this? I just uploaded the concept to my website to have it in one clear place: http://draketo.de/light/english/mercurial/workflow-concept-automatic-trusted-group-committers Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Looking for a working Eclipse git plugin
Am Mittwoch 29 April 2009 12:38:15 schrieb xor: We're in 2009 and graphical IDEs ought to be able to do the revision control, if that does not work then the wrong revision control system or IDE is being used. It is really not like revision control is something new, it has to be possible with GUI, it's been there for ages! I'm currently walking the opposite direction: I find myself using TortoiseHG more and more instead of Mercurial at the command line, and I find that I am far more productive that way. Partial commits are far more efficient, when you can just select the hunks graphically, and a quick look at the history graph makes the log become much clearer in an instant. A GUI has the advantage, that it uses more of the perception and interaction capabilities of its user. Most of us are visually oriented, and our visual processing capability is far higher than our text processing. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Looking for a working Eclipse git plugin
Am Mittwoch 29 April 2009 16:37:25 schrieb bbac...@googlemail.com: If you like the command line, ok. But if I can't work with git using my prefered IDE, then I have a problem. I don't want to change anything just because you decided to switch to some SCM that is mostly used by command line freaks ^^ So I will fiddle with the Eclipse plugin, and if I fail I have to decide how to proceed... I fear that git could discourage some part-time devs from contributing to freenet. Mercurial just got an extension which makes it possible to work transparently with git repositories. - http://hg-git.github.com/ It's still beta, and it doesn't yet work with the fred repo, but it should make it possible for those who were bitten once too often by git (for example me) to still contribute to freenet. Since there's a GSOC Student working on a hg-git bridge, I'm quite sure that this will quickly become stable. And I really like it, because it amends a split in the free software community. Generally you can find Mercurial extensions at - http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/UsingExtensions Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Current uservoice top 5
Am Montag 04 Mai 2009 17:33:30 schrieb Matthew Toseland: 3. Add a 'pause' feature. (131 votes) Remarkably high ranking, I wonder what proportion of our users use online games? Or with other filesharing services (short lived torrents, downloading in Gnutella) or with graphics editing or video editing or just plain compiling the new packages or haggling with a completely overloaded E-Mail program... Uhm, these were most of my reasons for wanting a pause feature :) It would be nicest if using the pause feature would also reduce the memory footprint... but most memory will be swapped out if it isn't used, so the pause feature alone should suffice for freeing memory :) Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Current uservoice top 5
Am Montag 04 Mai 2009 17:33:30 schrieb Matthew Toseland: 5. Use port 80,443,53,1863 for communication. (74 votes) I have no idea how this got into the top 5! Any ideas? People trying to run nodes at work perhaps? Maybe not wanting the provider to be able to just shut down nonstandard ports and block freenet that way. ISPs can block freenet ports, but shouldn't really block 80 - at least for outgoing connections. Maybe running it on a server. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Current uservoice top 5
Am Montag 04 Mai 2009 19:59:15 schrieb Arne Babenhauserheide: Am Montag 04 Mai 2009 17:33:30 schrieb Matthew Toseland: 3. Add a 'pause' feature. (131 votes) Remarkably high ranking, I wonder what proportion of our users use online games? Or with other filesharing services (short lived torrents, downloading in Gnutella) or with graphics editing or video editing or just plain compiling the new packages or haggling with a completely overloaded E-Mail program... I just thought about this the other way round: When do I want freenet to use my full CPU power? I got to 1) When I do something which doesn't need much resources, for example writing or coding. 2) When I browse freenet myself. 3) When I'm not at my computer and no compiles are running. So a nicer solution might be to have a) a hard pause: stop hard until disabled again, and b) a soft pause: only use less resources while the user is active - except if he's firing off manual freenet requests (webinterface). The soft pause could for example use a screensaver as s...@home does to detect inactivity. The modes could even be turned around: Soft pause as default mode, so freenet is only active while my computer has little other load. The problem with soft pause as default mode could be that users who shut down their computers as soon as they leave them would contribute little to the computer, so I think we can discard it. If someone wants it, he should have to enable it everytime he starts freenet - with this it's only viable for long running nodes. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Current uservoice top 5
Am Mittwoch 06 Mai 2009 00:23:54 schrieb Matthew Toseland: Isn't using a reasonably low scheduling priority enough? And we already do that! Not really, since I can't disable it (when I want full speed), and it sadly doesn't work really well for memory consumption. I'd like an option to have freenet go inactive as soon as the system load gets too high. It will lose connections anyway (low scheduling priority leads to far too high answer-times), so it could just explicitely take a break until my system runs well again. But I don't want to have that all the time. When I compile something in the background, I want freenet to take predecence (that's already well covered with the low scheduling priority, though). Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Infocalypse feedback (Mercurial over Freenet)
Hi, I just want to provide some feedback on Infocalypse - I hope this is the right place, since it's an application on freenet. I tried it a bit and I really like it. I didn't yet try inserting a big repo, but it works pretty well for the smaller repositories I tested (which are also available in the web). The only problem I still have is that keeping the uris in the central config file didn't work (all paths in the config file were lowercase while the real paths aren't - maybe that's connected to the issue). Different from simply uploading the full hg repo into freenet, infocalypse also feels quite fast. If you want to test it, here's my repository checkout uri: u...@ko8wblzqdqc~1gmmevo8ewpch0yqkdexms4kpfdoeoq,0KpmSJb35Q6UwgdhAJpTMH0jnjUriv7DtaFtTq3dlRI,AQACAAE/test.R1/0 The mirror of freenet staging worked, too. The initial pull took about an hour, and it succeeded, though I got the log output GetFailed. Most recent revision was 13919 user:Daniel Cheng (???) j16s...@freenetproject.org date:Mon May 11 10:48:31 2009 +0800 summary: Remove unused variable (leftovers of r27142) Best wishes, Arne Besides: I use a live build of Mercurial (directly from the main repo), and infocalypse works. --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Request for proofreading: Announcing donation from Google
On Tuesday, 12. May 2009 21:36:30 Matthew Toseland wrote: We are currently working on Freenet 0.8, which will be released later this year, and will include additional performance improvements, usability work, and security improvements, as well as the usual debugging. Features are not yet finalized but we expect it to include Freetalk (a new anonymous web forums tool), a new Vista-compatible installer for Windows (that part will be out in a few days), and hopefully Bloom filter sharing, a new feature enabling nodes to know what is in their peers' datastores, greatly improving performance, combined with some related security improvements. ...Bloom filter sharing. Bloom filter sharing will enable nodes to know what is in their peers datastores without impacting anonymity and should result in much improved performance and better security. That would be my suggestion. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] a social problem with Wot (was: Hashcash introduction, was: Question about WoT )
On Wednesday, 13. May 2009 10:24:52 Daniel Cheng wrote: In fms, you can always adjust the MinLocalMessageTrust to get whatever message you please to read. -- ya, you may call it censorship.. but it is the one every reader can opt-out with 2 clicks. --- Even if majority abuse the system, the poster can always post, the reader may know who is being censored and adjust accordingly . As long as I can just disable the censorship (and I'm aware tha it exists) I don't care about it. Noone has the right to make me listen, but also I don't have the right to prevent someone from speaking. Luckily the itnernet allows us to join these two goals: You can speak, but maybe noone will hear you. Important here is, that there must not be a way to check if I join in the censorship, else people can create social pressure. I don't really use FMS yet, so I need to ask: is there a way to check that? If yes: How can we get rid of it? Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Question about an important design decision of the WoT plugin
On Wednesday, 13. May 2009 15:03:13 Matthew Toseland wrote: Perhaps some form of feedback/ultimatum system? Users who are affected by spam from an identity can send proof that the identity is a spammer to the users they trust who trust that identity. If the proof is valid, those who trust the identity can downgrade him within a reasonable period; if they don't do this they get downgraded themselves? I remember another alternative which was proposed (and implemented) for Gnutella (but LimeWire chose not to merge the code for unknown reasons): Voting not on users but on messages (objects): - Main site: http://credence-p2p.org - Papers: http://credence-p2p.org/paper.html - Overview: http://credence-p2p.org/overview.html I tested it back then and it worked quite well. You could have two different settings: ignore messages marked as spam and only see messages marked as good. They had the same problem of people not voting on spam/not spam, but on I like it / I hate it, and their solution was a differenciated voting mechanism. It's implemented in Java, but the GUI ties into LimeWire. The core is mostly independent, though (iirc). It only depends on a limit on account creation: creating massive amounts of accounts (who are alowed to vote) can break the system. This limit could be realized by only allowing people with a minimum message count to vote. I don't know if it can perfectly be ported to freenet, but it should be worth a look - also it's GPL licensed. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Request for proofreading: Announcing donation from Google
On Wednesday, 13. May 2009 18:12:52 Robert Hailey wrote: On May 12, 2009, at 7:28 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: On Tuesday, 12. May 2009 21:36:30 Matthew Toseland wrote: be out in a few days), and hopefully Bloom filter sharing, a new feature enabling nodes to know what is in their peers' datastores, greatly improving performance, combined with some related security improvements. Bloom filter sharing will enable nodes to know what is in their peers datastores without impacting anonymity and should result in much improved performance and better security. Except that it's not true... bloom filter sharing is at a large cost to security anonymity (as said in the roadmap). Ouch! - if you're right I completely misunderstood the announcement, and its last part should definitely be reworked. I didn't check the validity of the statements but simply tried to make them easier to understand. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Current uservoice top 5
On Wednesday, 13. May 2009 19:00:54 Matthew Toseland wrote: We could pause most of the node relatively easily, there will still be some background activity, and therefore some garbage collection, but it can be kept minimal... That would be great. As long as it doesn't access its memory very often, my system will put most of it to swap, so this should also free most of the memory. But I don't want to have that all the time. When I compile something in the background, I want freenet to take predecence (that's already well covered with the low scheduling priority, though). How would Freenet tell the difference? When I click pause I want it to reduce its activity (ideally there'd be take a break for X hours instead of pause now and stay paused, because else I'm prone to forget that I paused it. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Question about an important design decision of the WoT plugin
On Wednesday, 13. May 2009 16:33:29 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: Voting not on users but on messages (objects): Short additional info: You never rate users directly but only check how much their votes correspond with yours. If they correspond positively (they vote up what you vote up) you use their votes for judging messages. If they correspond negatively (they voted up spam), you use their votes inversed. The developers showed that, if you can keep people from creating new accounts to quickly, this system makes it impossible to promote more than a few spam messages as good, and if multiple spammers try to promote different spam, they cancel out, since they have to vote honestly on so many good messages that their spam disappears. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Infocalypse feedback (Mercurial over Freenet)
On Monday, 11. May 2009 21:20:49 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: The only problem I still have is that keeping the uris in the central config file didn't work (all paths in the config file were lowercase while the real paths aren't - maybe that's connected to the issue). This problem seems fixed by now; works for me on amd64, Gentoo GNU/Linux - thanks to feral code wright! Information: $ hg version Mercurial Distributed SCM (version 437e06bbd11e+20090515) # means: current hg head from the main development repo $ python --version Python 2.5.4 Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Usability test results
On Friday, 15. May 2009 22:07:34 xor wrote: Wouldn't it take much load off the internet, i.e. small bandwidth connections, if any nodes which are connected via LAN used the LAN for routing requests if possible? I assume that it would also help privacy, because then timing analysis and similar would become much harder, since external nodes can't look into the LAN. To avoid too easy internal traceability, the option of switching to port 8080 or 5223 (jabber server with SSL) (or 80 if started with sufficient rights) would be nice. It would avoid the question what exactly are you running? Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Usability test results
On Saturday, 16. May 2009 16:02:19 Thomas Sachau wrote: Additionally, Gentoo is about choice, if there is a warning, the user can choose, with a forcing script, there is no choice, which is a bad idea for this philosophy, therefor i vote against such a script for linux. But in Gentoo it would also be possible to add a use flag to select the browser, which just tells freenet which browser to use. --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Using standard ports of encrypted protocols
Hi, It would be nice, if I could tell freenet to use standard ports for communication - especially for connections inside a LAN (where the possibility that an admin is watching all used ports might be a bit higher than on the internet). I'd think it would be useful to just test a list of ports normally used for communication (ideally encrypted), so that encrypted data wouldn't draw suspicions (and so we don't need to implement full steganography at once, but can move towards it). Maybe the option could include a list with the note Only select services you DON'T want to run! Some ideas, not all encrypted: - 2190/UDP TiVoConnect Beacon - 2593/TCP,UDP RunUO—Ultima Online server - 3723/TCP,UDP Used by many Battle.net Blizzard games (Diablo II, Warcraft II, Warcraft III, StarCraft) - 3724/TCP,UDP World of Warcraft Online gaming MMORPG - 4000/TCP,UDP Diablo II game - 6619/TCP,UDP odette-ftps, Odette File Transfer Protocol (OFTP) over TLS/SSL - 6891–6900/TCP,UDP Windows Live Messenger (File transfer) - 6901/TCP,UDP Windows Live Messenger (Voice) - 28910 Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection (all information from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_TCP_and_UDP_port_numbers I'm sure there are more...) Is tehre any danger in using known ports? Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Usability test results
On Sunday, 17. May 2009 00:59:13 Matthew Toseland wrote: Not much point hiding it if you're broadcasting the existence of nodes via MDNSDiscovery! ...you're right for OpenNet... should have seen that before. I assume only a full steganographic announcement framework could help there (have specific ways to hide a freenet announcement in innocent announcements). Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Using standard ports of encrypted protocols
On Tuesday, 19. May 2009 07:14:20 3BUIb3S50i 3BUIb3S50i wrote: use-the-port-80-443-53-1863-for-comunicationand vote (3 points) for this idea. I just added the mailbody as comment :) Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Usability test results
On Monday, 18. May 2009 15:50:30 Thomas Sachau wrote: Do you know the numbers of possible browsers? You dont want to add a useflag for each of them and additionally this would force the user to use exactly the one browser selected by useflag. Additionally, what happens, when the selected browser has no privacy mode enabled, while another has it? This was and still is no real option. Simple and easy is only the warning page, everyone sees it, everyone can act as written there. All choices still open and if anyone chooses to act like an idiot, it is his own problem. I agree, it sounds most reasonable, and it worked for me. Maybe it could be possible to reorder the list of freenet in the wizard / on the warning. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Using standard ports of encrypted protocols
On Wednesday, 20. May 2009 18:14:53 Matthew Toseland wrote: Depends on your threat model. Freenet traffic clearly doesn't look like these without proper stego transport plugins, and the connections between nodes definitely don't look like them, unless what you are imitating is purely peer to peer, in which case you need to look at the other nodes' connections as well and/or the timing. Is a steganography transport plugin planned? The option of going really deep into hiding is one of the ideas behind freenet which appealed to me the most. Also, we can't use TCP at the moment. That's why I searched for services which also use UDP. Else the list would have been far longer... :) Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Why WoTs won't work....
On Friday, 22. May 2009 23:10:42 Mike Bush wrote: I have been watching this debate an I was wondering whether it could help to have 2 sets of trust values for each identity in a trust list, this could mean you could mark an identity as spamming or that I don't want to see these posts again as i find them objectionable. This is what Credence did in the end for spam detection on Gnutella, so it might fit the human psyche :) People got the option to say that's bad quality or misleading, I don't like it or that's spam. For messages that could be * that ID posts spam * that ID posts crap The first can easily be reviewed, the second is subjective. That would give a soft group censorship option, but give the useful spam detection to everyone. Best wishes, Arne PS: Yes, I mostly just tried to clarify Mikes post for me. I hope the mail's useful to you nontheless. --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Why current ui may be improved, and proposed improvements
On Friday, 22. May 2009 23:38:35 Matthew Toseland wrote: Putting the messages only here is a bad idea. Some of these messages are IMPORTANT. What we need to do is: - show the summary on the Browse Freenet page and maybe others - reduce the number of messages by coalescing them and shifting them to the relevant pages: You have 6 messages with a link to the Friends page rather than one for each n2ntm, similar with bookmark updates. I personally like having the messages at the top. freind to friend messages are the major way to keep in contact with your friends, and the friends are important, so their messages should be visible instantly. If a friend says I've been compromised every other user HAS TO see that on the first page. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Why current ui may be improved, and proposed improvements
On Saturday, 23. May 2009 02:20:23 Clément wrote: A always seeable (sorry for new words...) button 'Shutdown the node' and 'Restart the node' You want to encourage people to shut down? IMHO the best way to do that is with a system tray icon. Hum, in all application you can always exit the application in one click. I know freenet needs people to run it as long as they can, but hidding the shutdown button is not a solution (we don't want to force them to run freenet, do we ? ;) ) Why not just add a pause button to the ones on the start page? The stop and restart buttons currently are on the first page. But maybe all these options could be moved to a manage your node or maintenance page. Configuration, Statistics and Reachability could also go there. As addition: I think up- and downloads should be called up- and downloads - regardless of how queuey they are :) Then they should also have a download key field like the one on the start page. It could differ from teh one on teh start page by always downloading to the download folder. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Why WoTs won't work....
On Saturday, 23. May 2009 16:06:51 Matthew Toseland wrote: People will game the system, no? If they think paedophiles are scum who should not be allowed to speak, and they realise that clicking This is spam is more effective than This is crap, they will click the former, no? Not if the penalty for marking something falsely as spam is to lose all trust for their own messages (You falsely reported spam - you're a spammer) while the penalty for thinking different is simply that their ratings won't be taken as seriously. (I hope the above is possible in the implementation). Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Why current ui may be improved, and proposed improvements
On Saturday, 23. May 2009 20:03:25 Matthew Toseland wrote: Well, no other alert is shown in full at the moment. Isn't it better to just say You have 5 messages from friends ? Or You have 1 new messages from friends ? I'm not perfectly sure, but I think it would suffice. Maybe I reacted too emotionally... Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Why current ui may be improved, and proposed improvements
On Sunday, 24. May 2009 16:52:00 xor wrote: Full ACK. Friends page HAS to be separate to encourage users to establish darknet connections. Maybe we should even write something about Freenet becoming faster with more friend connections - if that's true? From my experience it is faster - I added two darknet connections again after some time on opennet, and my (subjective) speed (time to get a page) got a massive bump up. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] The installer is NOT signed
On Monday, 25. May 2009 13:53:45 Florent Daignière wrote: And we learnt about it ... Yesterday. Great! We NEED to find a better way to get feedback from users. Couldn't a bug report function be integrated directly into the web-interface? Upper-right corner, a little bug icon with the text Report Bug. Should naturally be a freenet site or similar. - Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Why current ui may be improved, and proposed improvements
On Tuesday, 26. May 2009 19:16:14 Matthew Toseland wrote: On Sunday 24 May 2009 17:30:00 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: On Sunday, 24. May 2009 16:52:00 xor wrote: Full ACK. Friends page HAS to be separate to encourage users to establish darknet connections. Maybe we should even write something about Freenet becoming faster with more friend connections - if that's true? From my experience it is faster - I added two darknet connections again after some time on opennet, and my (subjective) speed (time to get a page) got a massive bump up. That is surprising, I wonder why. Maybe just that they are stable connections? Maybe that - and maybe they are simply faster :) Also it could be a stronger relation of interests (I asked in Frost for refs with people who also use GNU/Linux - free software enthusiasts). Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Question about an important design decision of the WoT plugin
On Wednesday, 27. May 2009 19:53:01 Evan Daniel wrote: I have only very rarely had any difficulty determining whether a message was spam or not. Why would this be any different? Of course Advogato gives you the same ability, that is the entire point. The precise algorithm is different, but the problem it tries to solve is the same. The one difference is that Advogato is not about determining that person X is a spammer, it's about determining that person X *isn't* a spammer. From a user's standpoint, the two questions are precisely identical, but at an algorithm level they're not. Is there a reason for assigning trust to persons instead of assigning trust to messages? You could have two options: mark as spam and reply/no spam, where replying implies that the message was seen as valid. Then you compare your list of message ratings with the lists of others. To find out if you should trust an unknown message, you check the correltation your trust-list has with the trust-list of people who rated the message. If you have a strong positive correlation, you use their rating, If you have a strong negative correlation, you use their rating inverted. (the idea is taken from http://credence-p2p.org) That way rating is no longer about finding spammers, but about finding spam- posts. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Getting rid of emu: an option
On Saturday, 30. May 2009 19:41:24 Matthew Toseland wrote: Emu is constantly segfaulting in php-cgi, this is one reason to want to move. It would be partly solved by making it all static. What exactly is needed? I have some 2GiB diskspace and unknown bandwidth laying unused (I grabbed a special offer a few years ago :) ). The bandwidth max I experienced till now were 130 GiB, normal are about 13 GiB. Stats of my main page: - http://draketo.de/usage/index.html There's one important question, though: I live in Germany; can I get into legal trouble for hosting the website? Apart from that, the only issue could be performance - a static site should be no problem, though. Dynamic sites are a bit slow. If you want to check, if it suffices, I can setup a subaccount. The sf.net website service sadly disallows revenue generation - otherwise it would be perfect :) Best wishes, Arne PS: And I wanted to spend the hour playing starcraft. I shouldn't just check my mail before that ;) --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Getting rid of emu: an option
On Monday, 1. June 2009 11:39:13 Matthew Toseland wrote: Having said that, we might need somewhere to put mantis, if we decide to keep it (although everyone else seems to want to get rid of it). We don't have any other need for php afaik, although we need SSL redirects. How about hosting mantis on sourceforge? They have it now. - http://apps.sourceforge.net/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Hosted Apps Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet controller apps for Mac OS X
On Monday, 1. June 2009 17:29:05 steve wrote: I looked into doing this with Java to make it cross platform, but since most Macs lack java6 right now it is non-trivial, and java6 is where the systray class was apparently introduced. Could this work with the crossplatform GNUstep library as cocoa replacement? - http://www.gnustep.org/ Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Getting rid of emu: an option
On Monday, 1. June 2009 13:55:29 sashee wrote: We had a policy where I worked for some time, that if a bug is inactive for some time, and cannot be reproduced by the developer, will be force closed. I know that from many other projects. IIRC Gentoo uses NEEDINFO for that. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet controller apps for Mac OS X
On Tuesday, 2. June 2009 09:35:24 steve wrote: I can certainly look into it, and i know of some projects to make it possible. Great! Many thanks! - Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Getting rid of emu: an option
On Tuesday, 2. June 2009 13:53:37 Daniel Cheng wrote: I have had some very bad experience with SF's servers around year 2001. It was slow and buggy. Is that fixed now? They did some nice updates - I didn't have bad experiences with it for years, now. - Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] About the website
On Tuesday, 2. June 2009 16:45:25 Matthew Toseland wrote: I don't understand what the point is. A progress bar implies that for some period of the year we are soliciting donations actively, and for the rest of the year we are not. I think a progress bar would only be useful if there'd be a clear roadmap *for the next version* when the previous version comes out. We need XY$ to be able to finish 0.8 which will include feature A, B and C. We already have MN% of the necessary money. When there is no such short-term roadmap, the donation bar might not be useful - except as suffices for one year bar or similar. A buffer which shows if freenet financing is in the green :) Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] About the website
On Tuesday, 2. June 2009 17:48:34 Matthew Toseland wrote: IMHO the above is totally unrealistic. Does that settle the Progress bar question? - Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Getting rid of emu: an option
On Wednesday, 3. June 2009 19:08:07 Matthew Toseland wrote: Web hosting (of static files). Sourceforge provide this, and it should perform well. If there is no dynamic code there should be no administrative overhead. They don't allow generating money from the webhosting, so SF can't solve static websites. But that can easily be found elsewhere, too. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Getting rid of emu: an option
On Wednesday, 3. June 2009 19:08:07 Matthew Toseland wrote: Mantis: We could run this ourselves using php+mysql on sourceforge servers, but we would have to admin it ourselves. Their hosted apps service does not currently support importing data, so we would not be able to use that to host our existing bug tracker. Having to upgrade it manually would be a major pain, from what nextgens has said... We could file a support request for that. Maybe they can update it themselves. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Getting rid of emu: an option
On Thursday, 4. June 2009 14:58:35 Matthew Toseland wrote: Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying that the only way to take donations with sourceforge is through sourceforge's donations system? That could cost us a significant amount of money... That's what I read in their docs: -- -- -- -- -- -- Project web may not be used for revenue generation. We pay for the bandwidth and servers for project web, then provide that service to you for free, so it's unfair for you to try to make money using our project web resources. -- -- -- -- -- -- - http://apps.sourceforge.net/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Project web Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Trying to move forward on getting rid of emu
On Thursday, 4. June 2009 20:02:13 Matthew Toseland wrote: I vote for lighthouse. I've used Mantis, Trac, and Fogbugz, and Lighthouse is better than all. It is simple, user friendly, doesn't impose any particular way of working, and it has a flexible API. How is it different to Mantis then? Anyone else have an opinion? Is it free? (I couldn't get that information from my first glance on the site) If it is unfree, it doesn't look suitable as bugtracker for a censorship free network to me. Proprietary solutions allow censorship *by design*, because some specific entity controls what the system does - no matter how benevolent that entity might be at the moment. I already had that feeling about uservoice, but there I though oh well, it's not really integral for freenet. But the bugtracker is integral, and relying on a proprietary solution for an integral part of freenet is dangerous. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Trying to move forward on getting rid of emu
On Friday, 5. June 2009 21:59:46 Matthew Toseland wrote: I already had that feeling about uservoice, but there I though oh well, it's not really integral for freenet. But the bugtracker is integral, and relying on a proprietary solution for an integral part of freenet is dangerous. Ideologically I agree, however we do need something hosted (mantis is a major pain to keep up to date manually and is in php so has security issues), and practically speaking MANTIS works but it is probably not the most helpful in terms of getting useful work done. We could get free hosting for Trac, but it may be tricky to import bugs as Trac doesn't have support for dependancies between bugs What about Bugzilla? - http://www.bugzilla.org/about/ It's what Gentoo uses to manage bug reports - and it definitely has enough power - it's used to track packages for programs which leads to about 200.000 bugs or so :) - http://bugs.gentoo.org/report.cgi Or having a managed server with a standard Linux distribution on it, so updates don't hurt anymore? I would have little problem with administering a Gentoo server. Do a weekly emerge sync; emerge -uDN world and the system keeps itself up to date. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Trying to move forward on getting rid of emu
On Saturday, 6. June 2009 00:49:42 Ian Clarke wrote: Its only a bugtracker. If they were to suddenly go evil (which they have no incentive to do) then it would be an annoyance, but not a disaster - we'd just move elsewhere. When we take a look at the current search for a new solution, I think it would be quite a catastrophe. It would mean losing all (then) recent bugs and all recent changes to older bugs. And they could go evil, because someone tells them to - or shut down because they support projects which help people avoid censorship. And you know, censorship is good, because it helps the children (don't laugh, please, they are currently spurting that argumentation around in germany to implement effective police-controlled censorship). Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Trying to move forward on getting rid of emu
On Saturday, 6. June 2009 00:43:12 Ian Clarke wrote: Is it free? (I couldn't get that information from my first glance on the site) No. :| Yes it is, its free for open source projects, see http://sera.lighthouseapp.com/plans That's gratis but not libre, so it isn't free. Matthew got that quite right. Making a sensitive project dependent on unfree software is just reckless. We have no legal leverage which couldn't be taken away in a blink. And no matter how nice these people are, do you trust their strengths of principles not to stab our back when they get threatened, if their principles aren't even strong enough to make their project free software? Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Trying to move forward on getting rid of emu
On Monday, 8. June 2009 03:22:13 steve wrote: As others have pointed out, we're only talking about a bug tracker, at most it is an annoyance and not a threat to the projects security A bugtracker is _very close_ to a development dependency. How much time did we now spend with searching for a new bugtracker? That's the time it would cost again. Also completely apart from ideology, we don't know if lighthouse will remain in business. A paid server on the other hand will remain as long as freenet stays funded - or at least allow dumping the data to easily migrate to another server. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Trying to move forward on getting rid of emu
On Monday, 8. June 2009 05:44:58 Ian Clarke wrote: And no matter how nice these people are, do you trust their strengths of principles not to stab our back when they get threatened, if their principles aren't even strong enough to make their project free software? What if it isn't that their principles aren't strong, perhaps they simply don't agree with your principles? That's a possibility, and maybe I'm too fixed on free software at times. Not maybe. I am too fixed at it at times - at least when you ask some of my friends. The reason why I'm very wary of using nonfree software for the bugtracker of freenet is that this could create a lock-in, and that lock-in is only true as long as lighthouse doesn't provide a simple way to export the data into a format usable for other bugtrackers. Should they provide that export option, then they don't create a lock-in: It's always possible to just switch on if something bad should happen (and we could periodically export to have a clean backup). But I didn't find anything about that on their website. I run a company that produces non-open source software. I do-so because its the only way for the company to be financially viable, if my business plan was to open source the software then the software simply wouldn't exist, because it wouldn't be financially viable to create it. Would the world be a better place without the software I've created, even if that software isn't open source? I don't think so. You shouldn't, else you'd have the wrong job :) But freenet lives as free project on donations, so it doesn't need to become dependent on unfree software to be viable. On the contrary. I don't know how many of the donors think like me and only donate to free projects. I suggest you re-read the Freenet mission statement, here it is for your convenience - note that it says nothing that would limit us to use of open source software: The specific purpose of this corporation is to assist in developing and disseminating technological solutions to further the open and democratic distribution of information over the Internet or its successor electronic communication networks or organizations. It is also the purpose of this organization to guarantee consenting individuals the free, unmediated, and unimpeded reception and impartation of all intellectual, scientific, literary, social, artistic, creative, human rights, and cultural expressions, opinions and ideas without interference or limitation by or service to state, private, or special interests. It is also the purpose of this organization to educate the world community and be an advocate of these purposes. As more and more education organizations move on towards open access, it becomes more and more visible that to archieve the goal of truly free communication, free/open licenses are a prerequisite. And if this licensing is done consequentially, it leads to free software using open standards. Every other kind of software creates an imbalance of power: Those who can change the software (or learn to do so) and those who can't, regardless of their ability. More exactly: Unfree software arbitrarily gives some people power over the lives of other people. And when unfree software is necessary for some kinds of communication, the users who depend on this communication are at the mercy of the ones who created the software. We don't talk about a better frontend to a bugtracking system, but about the whole system which would also hold the data. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Trying to move forward on getting rid of emu
Am Montag, 8. Juni 2009 12:10:39 schrieb Florent Daigniere: No way. Bugzilla is everything but usable in our case. OK. So it's Trac (with complex import but DVCS integration), Mantis (which some don't like) or an unfree solution. Did I miss one? I didn't yet include roundup, because I only saw today, that it does have the ability to handle dependencies, Also it has a optional commandline and XMLRPC interfaces. - http://www.roundup-tracker.org/ Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] About the website
Am Samstag, 13. Juni 2009 21:53:58 schrieb Evan Daniel: I don't know. I don't see such an option in WP, but I don't know much about the underlying software. To have a safe wiki it would also be posible to follow the path the GNU/Hurd took: Have a wiki with DVCS backend. That way has a few advantages: * People can edit texts at home using their preferred editors (and without requiring internet access). * You can use a seperate wiki as staging area for the main wiki. * wikipages get precompiled, so the serverload for serving pages is minimal. The Hurd uses this system for the whole website: - Website: http://hurd.gnu.org - Staging wiki: http://bddebian.com/~hurd-web/ They use ikiwiki as wiki-software: - http://ikiwiki.info/ The sole disadvantage is that you need a wiki-maintainer who regularly pulls from the staging wiki, checks the changes and pushes the verified version to the main page. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] About the website
Am Dienstag, 16. Juni 2009 19:52:32 schrieb Matthew Toseland: Okay. The homepage now says: ' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and publish web sites, and chat on forums, without fear of censorship. Users are anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. Without anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech, and without decentralisation the network would be vulnerable to attack. Learn more! The last part shouldn't be in negative form, I think. Her's an alternative: Its anonymity gives you true freedom of speech and its decentralization makes it resistant against attacks. Also I wouldn't use a , before and chat on forums (it breaks the text flow). How about this: ' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, chat on forums and browse and publish web sites without fear of censorship. Users are anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. Through anonymity it gives you true freedom of speech and its decentralization makes it resistant against attacks. Learn more!' Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Ein Mann wird auf der Straße mit einem Messer bedroht. Zwei Polizisten sind sofort da und halten ein Transparent davor. Illegale Szene. Niemand darf das sehen. Der Mann wird ausgeraubt, erstochen und verblutet, denn die Polizisten haben beide Hände voll zu tun. Willkommen in Deutschland. Zensur ist schön. --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] The new blue gradient website background
Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 02:06:06 schrieb Daniel Cheng: Blue Gradient background won't work, because: But it looked very nice to me, and I could read the text quite well... --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] About the website
Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 05:26:25 schrieb Luke771: Browse and publish 'freesites' (Freenet-hosted websites) This one sounds very nice to me. It gets people into the freenet-speech and at the same time tells them why we use it (what's the difference between a freesite and a normal website). Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. - Arne (http://draketo.de) --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed
Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 08:06:30 schrieb Daniel Cheng: The bad thing is: our fproxy homepage don't have any picture. Those little ActiveLinks icons got disabled by default. Try using Firefox - at least for me it shows the activelinks. Wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. - Arne (http://draketo.de) --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Freenet-Cards: ID cards with your node-ref
Hi, A few years back I wrote freenet-cards which you can give your friends so they can easily check your node-ref. For a long time these lived only on a freesite, but I just pushed them on a normal website to help spread freenet. - http://freenetcard.draketo.de/ Please use them as you see fit. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. - Arne (http://draketo.de) --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet-Cards: ID cards with your node-ref
Am Dienstag, 22. September 2009 21:32:36 schrieb Robert Hailey: - http://freenetcard.draketo.de/ I really like the *idea*, but I wish it were easier to implement. It would be a pain to enter that huge noderef by hand. ... freenet://192.168.0.128:4567/14/xYaEue344 ... Couldn't we then fetch the noderef from the given ip with very-good certainty and forgo the long references? Couldn't every freenet node create a freesite with only the noderef? Then we'd just have to hand out the public key to that freesite, if we want to connect to people who already use opennet. A missing piece would still be a shorthand, though: A way to shorten the huge freenet URL to something we can actually type - like your URL, but as a freenet link. And even if it's a freenet link, we might be able to reduce its complexity by devising an alternate representation - for example splitting the link into 6 pieces. Currently an URL looks like this: - http://127.0.0.1:/u...@wptde7h1dshd1shsl-j5loyyha8nx3oje5yhusnt7ra,- iyrzP61KoWdQDK2omI7GgV~65mwGfWtDnbi1uzp0xc,AQACAAE/freenet-cards/11/ We could make it a nicer node identity like this: wptdE7H1DsHd1SH sL-J5LoyYha8Nx3 oje5yhusNT7rA, -iyrzP61KoWdQDK 2omI7GgV~65mwGf WtDnbi1uzp0xc, AQACAAE This is still kinda long, but doesn't look as horrible. But we would have a huge list of sites which have to be kept online. Or we could go the route of i2p and create a pseudo-DNS, where nodes can register their node-ref. Something like freemail, maybe (though I don't know how secure that is internally). Using IP+port doesn't look viable for me, though, because in Germany almost noone has a stable IP. The only way I see for that would be dyndns. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet-Cards: ID cards with your node-ref
Am Mittwoch, 23. September 2009 10:02:52 schrieb VolodyA! V Anarhist: There was a proposal more than a couple of years ago to create poems for the node reference. In fact there were two source-ready versions posted on this list. They would be way too long to put on a business card, but could be given on a sheet of paper, and then retyped (must easier than to type the key). That sounds damn stylish! = Want have ;) Why wasn't it included? Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] New server, current status of services
Am Dienstag, 26. Januar 2010 21:34:47 schrieb Clément Vollet: last one is six months old); and by news, I don't mean a news about a switch of server like I suggested above, but news about the life of the project (development, new plugins, tech stuff, etc.). Maybe the users won't understand all of that, but that's ok, it means the project is still alive (and don't expect users to read the ml ;). Maybe you could do something like the Month of the Hurd, I write for the Hurd project: - http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/news.html Its quite painless (about 1 to 2 hours per month) and doesn't require superb writing skills or similar, since I can just use a template I wrote to not have to think about structure every month: A month of the Hurd: **, ** and **. This month … Also … Mainly thanks to … Additionally … And … Since then, the Hurd seems to slowly shed its image of never being finished. My principle on what I write in the news is - “This is what we accomplished this month” and - “only write about stuff people can check (for example in a code repository) - and provide a link”. I hope this idea helps getting “a month of freenet” or similar going. Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Future of disk encryption in Freenet?
On Sunday 01 August 2010 12:14:51 Ximin Luo wrote: So yes we should just drop physical security. To do it properly we'll have to fuck with parts of people's machines we really shouldn't be fucking with; and if they are that paranoid (I am) they should just encrypt their entire disks, which will cover non-freenet stuff too. For me that would take away one of the main strengths of freenet: People need only install one program and have anonymous and mostly secure communication right away. Why throw away one of the strength freenet already has? Freenet can only attain the goal of spreading uncensorable information, if it is really easy to use. Else it can only reach the geek part of the population. Best wishes, Arne ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Mockup for a freenet theme: rabbit hole
Hi, I created a mockup for a freenet theme. My main goal was getting the structure out of the way of the content, so I went for a horizontal menu with horizontal submenu (persistent) all done with CSS for performance and cleanlyness :) The rest is done with the theme „into the rabbit hole“ in mind (and saving screen estate). Mind the clickable rabbit :) Without much further talk: USK@NliSiGWDer3nZWTj9TTEy~ApJODNWOZKi6nD1BBl3NQ,2oH7tH8KFGFLrKbeopW-2ctG53CdjrgmlKUXueIHmLk,AQACAAE/rabbit- hole/16/ USK@NliSiGWDer3nZWTj9TTEy~ApJODNWOZKi6nD1BBl3NQ,2oH7tH8KFGFLrKbeopW-2ctG53CdjrgmlKUXueIHmLk,AQACAAE/rabbit- hole/16/index_dark.html Or for those who aren’t paranoid about my server-logs :) Bright version: http://draketo.de/proj/freenet-rabbit-hole/ Dark version: http://draketo.de/proj/freenet-rabbit-hole/index_dark.html Based on grayandblue (with some borrowed CSS). The full code is available on BitBucket: https://bitbucket.org/ArneBab/freenet-rabbit-hole Please keep in mind, though, that this is only a mockup (though the code is clean). Also it uses some HTML 5 featured which cleanly degrade down to 4.01 The CSS is built to allow for moving the code of the navigation to the bottom, so it gets loaded last (the important content should be shown first in a text browser). Best wishes, Arne -- Ein Würfel System - einfach saubere Regeln: - http://1w6.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Mockup for a freenet theme: rabbit hole
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 09:01:28 Daniel Kanaan wrote: Nice clean theme. Thanks! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Mockup for a freenet theme: rabbit hole
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 13:36:14 Volodya wrote: I had some issues with the menu. Sometimes when you hover over the menu and submenu opens it is tricky to move the mouse in the way that doesn't close the submenu. Is it better now? I increased the active area. - Volodya P.S. While i know that i'll be shouted down, i still disagree with having no activelinks. I like activelinks in my bookmarks :) I just did not include them in the mockup, because I would have had to add them by hand :) Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Call for seednodes and explanation of current problems
On Saturday 05 February 2011 18:39:49 Matthew Toseland wrote: We need more seednodes. I will explain the broader situation below. If you can run a seednode - which means you need a forwarded port, a reasonably static IP address (or dyndns name), and a reasonable amount of bandwidth (especially upstream), and a reasonably stable node, please send me your opennet noderef (from the strangers page in advanced mode), and enable Be a seednode in the advanced config. Thanks. How much upstream do I need exactly? I can offer about 50kB/s (damn asymmetric DSL…), dyndns is no problem. Does that suffice? Best wishes, Arne -- Ein Würfel System - einfach saubere Regeln: - http://1w6.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Unhosted web apps over Freenet: Restricted API for WoT-based Javascript was Re: [unhosted] Unhosted and Freenet Project
On Monday 14 February 2011 09:08:28 Michiel de Jong wrote: I may remember this incorrectly, but I think when I tried out freenet, it's a desktop application, and not a localhost http service, right? Freenet is a localhost http-service. I already used it remotely quite often by just tunnelling the port via SSH to another computer. It uses public keys for identifying pseudonyms, and it automatically loadbalances popular data (which is much faster than seldomly requested data). Also there already is an example of a Javascript-based App on Freenet with a freenet extension as data provider (Sone, still experimental but already a cool twitter/identi.ca replacement). → http://127.0.0.1:/USK@nwa8lHa271k2QvJ8aa0Ov7IHAV- DFOCFgmDt3X6BpCI,DuQSUZiI~agF8c-6tjsFFGuZ8eICrzWCILB60nT8KKo,AQACAAE/sone/28/ So it might be possible to create an unhosted freenet extension which allows using freenet as data server which the unhosted Javascript applications on websites could use. Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Unhosted web apps over Freenet: Restricted API for WoT-based Javascript was Re: [unhosted] Unhosted and Freenet Project
On Thursday 10 March 2011 19:06:46 Michiel de Jong wrote: Still, since you're already distributing the web app, i don't see so much added advantage in separating the app from the data (which is what unhosted is all about). it makes sense to put javascript into freenet extension, but not so much putting it into unhosted web apps, i think? I think it makes sense, if you define a common (safe) API for retrieving the data. It would make it possible to integrate freenet-backed (censorship- resistant) services in other websites which people can easily migrate from site to site. What would be even better: An API for the web-app, but also an API for retrieving and synchronizing the raw data for alternate hosting solutions. Then if a site goes down, the forst step would be to integrate the web-app on another site using freenet as backend, and the second step would be to grab the full dataset from freenet and setup a new backend server. Freenet would then be the censorship resistant fallback. Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] [GSOC2011] Transport plugins and steganography
Hi Andrea, On Saturday 12 March 2011 12:22:22 mambro wrote: do you still consider a good GSOC project the implementation of transport plugins to make freenet to run over TCP (and maybe HTTP) and to implement some steganography techniques to hide the traffic from network analyzers? I do consider it as a good project, It is my major wish for freenet. It might be a bit too big, though — you need to ask toad about that. Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Should we accept Flattr?
I think Flattr is a great way to support websites. For freenet it might be useful, because Freenet is often in the news and so people who just like the idea can give their support. I use it on my sites. It is neither free software, nor anonymous, though. Best wishes, Arne ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] [GSoC 2011] Idea : Porting to Apache Struts
On Tuesday 19 April 2011 19:35:41 Matthew Toseland wrote: Plus, ideally we'd like Freenet to support multiple logins. That would be cool! Then we could add real gateways to WoT, creating a decentral, anonymizing (as long as you can trust your gateway) social network. …getting even more excited about freenet’s future! Best wishes, Arne -- 1w6 sie zu achten, sie alle zu finden, in Spiele zu leiten und sacht zu verbinden. → http://1w6.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Idea for marketing, related to GSoC student decision
On Tuesday 19 April 2011 19:22:09 Matthew Toseland wrote: On Monday 18 Apr 2011 15:49:50 xor wrote: IF we get a decent new web interface done which integrates all of those, we could make a theme which completely looks like Facebook and then do a major press release which claims something like Freenet project implements anonymous Facebook. This would probably hit most of the IT news sites and help usability very much because there are hundreds of millions of Facebook users and Facebook is a major buzzword. And probably result in legal issues e.g. trademark violation. “Freenet takes a hint from Facebook, but with real privacy (even from its developers)” “Don’t put your face in their book. Join the free net.” Just some legally safe PR ideas :) Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Greetings Freenet Devs
On Sunday 29 May 2011 21:29:22 Tom Elovi Spruce wrote: 2. Creating a free web publishing platform for everyone. This way, you can convince people to be part of the opennet and get more nodes. Maybe this will lead to having the opennet feel just as responsive as the typical client-server platform of HTTP (I'm likely wrong on this; you guys know better). This sounds very nice, and freenet already provides all utilities you need for that - except for some usability problems, and these are what a good designer can address very well. For reactivity we currently are at a few minutes round-trip-time with Sone, but that might improve. You could have a look at pyFCP (pyFreenet)¹ for standalone programs. If you want the programs to be distributed with freenet, you should instead create a plugin and use Java. ¹: https://github.com/freenet/lib-pyFreenet-staging Best wishes, Arne -- singing a part of the history of free software: - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Most users drop out before the first-time wizard is finished
Update: We worked a bit on the first time user experience. Reasoning: Only 1 choice at startup: default setting or wizard. → http://piratepad.net/H3kOp3QXuV Current version, without the text markup: 3 scenarios: - With invite. Can stay darknet or enable opennet as well for better performance. → 3 choices: Connect to friends (darknet) only, connect to any freenet user (opennet) or use the wizard. - Without invite. Probably want opennet → 2 choices: connect to any freenet user or wizard. - No invites: Connect to any Freenet user, connect only to friends, wizard. Connect to any Freenet user: (normal security) (No invite) This is suitable for relatively free countries where running freenet is legal, and is much safer than traditional p2p software like BitTorrent or Gnutella, but an attacker with moderate resources may be able to hunt you down. To improve security further, you can get your friends to sign up as well, add them as Friends, and then connect only to friends. Suggestion: To improve security further, you can tell your friends about Freenet and upgrade to high security once you have a stable connection count 10. (With invite) Freenet is connecting to your friend and his/her X friends, however it could be faster (but much less secure) by connecting to other Freenet users. It will still be much safer than traditional p2p software like BitTorrent or Gnutella, but an attacker with moderate resources may be able to hunt you down. Connect only to friends: (high security) (No invite) Use this if you are setting up your own Freenet darknet, and you know several people you want to connect to, for vastly improved security. If you only have a few people it may not be very useful, but if some of them know others, or have low security set, you can have a very large network. (With invite) Freenet will connect to your friend and his/her X friends, and connect to the rest of the network through them. This should be very safe, as long as you can trust your friends, and also hard to detect. More detailed settings Configure Freenet with the first-run wizard, setting up the configuration according to your own privacy needs without having to dive into all the technical details. This will take a bit longer than the other two options. If no invite: If a friend sent you an invite to Freenet, click here: [Browse for invite file] Also send an invite to your friend: invite_file = currently fref - No you can't send an invite until after you've completed setup. why? It won't know your IP address. It will be a menu item under Friends though. I thoügght all this ts needed only while no inv You still need an IP address for a noderef to work, especially if they're new too. So you need to go through the wizard first. OTOH if you already HAVE an invite we may know your IP. Notes Note: edonkey is no free sofware, so we need not talk about it :) :) Browse for file is great! Currently also needs save invite for friend Until we have invites we will want to have all 3 options on the homepage. We don't have invites yet. Possibly we should say if you have an invite... If the user chooses high security, we can have a page of essentials, or we could post them as useralerts. For example we could link to Truecrypt, offer to set a password, have a box saying I am on a student LAN, etc. maybe just a freesite with that info in the default links Unfortunately in some cases Freenet needs to know. E.g. for UPnP/JSTUN. On the other hand, we can turn them off and then bug the user if we don't succeed - if we have lots of FOAFs, we may not need JSTUN, just like we usually don't need it on opennet. Before we have invites we could just enable it I suppose... Moved from no invite: We could relay the original invite, also we could link to the menu where a message tell the user that he has to finnish the setup before he can invite new friends. We can mention it, but we can't link to it because we havent' finished setup yet. It does need to be an obvious menu item afterwards, especially if we have no friends, maybe an alert, instead of the current you-can-add-friends-or-turn-opennet-on we should link to the invite generator page. sounds good We could even mention it at the end, in the congrats page or something. But an alert might be better, dunno. If we have no peers and are on darknet only it might make sense to go straight to it. In any case there should be no get your friends to sign up... At Thu, 14 Jul 2011 19:51:53 +0100, Matthew Toseland wrote: According to the stats, the number of new users and the number of one-time users is about equal: http://127.0.0.1:8889/freenet:USK@gjw6StjZOZ4OAG-pqOxIp5Nk11udQZOrozD4jld42Ac,BYyqgAtc9p0JGbJ~18XU6mtO9ChnBZdf~ttCn48FV7s,AQACAAE/graphs/1238/ (The second graph; the first graph promisingly appears to show that numbers are starting to rise again) According to evan's work last year, the number of users trying freenet for 5 minutes
Re: [freenet-dev] Hello
Hi Zurc, Welcome to Freenet! Am Mittwoch, 10. August 2011, 14:17:22 schrieb Zurc: I can imagine it takes quite a bit of processing to figure out which of those ten computers had the furry porn because the cache on each of the computers is 30ish gig big, so thats 300 gigabytes worth of not wanted information my computer has to go through to get the 150 MB series that I want. I think Toad fixed that problem with store-io: → https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/2011-July/001659.html Best wishes, Arne -- Ein Mann wird auf der Straße mit einem Messer bedroht. Zwei Polizisten sind sofort da und halten ein Transparent davor. Illegale Szene. Niemand darf das sehen. Der Mann wird ausgeraubt, erstochen und verblutet, denn die Polizisten haben beide Hände voll zu tun. Willkommen in Deutschland. Zensur ist schön. ( http://draketo.de/stichwort/zensur ) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Beyond New Load Management: A proposal
Am Montag, 29. August 2011, 14:32:13 schrieb Ian Clarke: Yes, small tweaks have worked so well for us for the last decade, leaving us pretty-much where we were in 2003. No, we don't understand how the current system works, there is no point in trying to fix something when we don't even know what is broken. I’d like to present a clue what is broken in NLM. Before I kill you with the log, here’s the result: With NLM the latency of a request is a function of the raw bandwidth (not so with OLM), and NLM used only half my bandwidth after it had been deployed for 2 days (at the start much more). τ ~ bandwidth. q_olm ~ 16s, q_nlm ~ τ! ; with τ: transfer time, q: queue time (time to find the node), nlm: new load management, olm: old load management. So first step: make sure all bandwidth gets used - maybe by allocating more slots till we use all allowed bandwidth. Better having to throttle a transfer than not using bandwidth. *NLM should with the current network be slower than OLM by 23%. But in 18 months it should actually be faster by ~8% — given Moores Law holds for upload bandwidth — because the routes are shorter.* The main advantage of NLM is, that it should be much more resilient against attackers (DoS). Now to the log - it’s math and not cleaned up; you have been warned :) ArneBab SSK-time: σ, CHK-time: ψ, success: Xs, fail: Xf. ArneBab queue-time: q, transfer-time: τ, hops remaining: h, total hops: h₀, w: success rate ArneBab ψs = τ(h) + q(h) ArneBab ψf = q(h) ArneBab ψ ~ w₁·ψs + (1-w₁)·ψf ArneBab σs = τ(h) + q(h) ArneBab σf = q(h) ArneBab σ ~ w₂·ψs + (1-w₂)·ψf; w₂ ~ 15% ArneBab num(ψ) / num(σ) ~ 1 ArneBab → time ~ σ + ψ ArneBab q(h) depends on timeouts, as do w₁ and w₂ ArneBab time = w₁·ψs + (1-w₁)·ψf + w₂·ψs + (1-w₂)·ψf ArneBab = w₁ · (τ(h) + q(h)) + (1-w₁)·q(h) + w₂ · (τ(h) + q(h)) + (1- w₂)·q(h) ArneBab = t(h) · (w₁+w₂) + 2·q(h) · (2-w₁-w₂) ArneBab = τ(h) · (w₁+w₂) + 2·q(h) · (2-w₁-w₂) ArneBab in the congestion case q(h) ~ timeout ArneBab timeout = o ArneBab timeout: o ArneBab w depends on the timeout *somehow*, but inversely ArneBab o=0 → w=0 ArneBab assumption: o = ∞ → w₂ ~ 20%, w₁ ~ 100% ArneBab assumption: o = ∞ → w₂ ~ 0.2, w₁ ~ 1 ArneBab correction: in the congestion case: q(h) ~ min(timeout, τ(h)) ArneBab timeout matters for q(h) only when timeout τ(h) ArneBab I try to: I still need a dependency of w on timeout ArneBab … lets call it t(w) ArneBab better: w(o) :) toad_ well, if there is a timeout, we have a fixed time, but we reduce the hops ... toad_ i thought w was success rate ArneBab ah! ArneBab and the success rates where in the NLM stats ArneBab going mostly smoothly from 60% to 0% ArneBab for the HTL toad_ right, success rate peaks at 18 or sometimes 16 toad_ what are w1 vs w2? toad_ chk vs ssk i guess ArneBab yes -*- toad_ thinks considering both is probably overambitious at this stage? ArneBab should not be too bad: SSKs drop much more rapidly at decreasing hops ArneBab hops→HTL toad_ ψs is time for a successful chk; ψf is time for a failed chk ... in which case h in the first instance is low, and in the second instance is h0 ArneBab yes toad_ okay, i don't follow this line: time = w₁·ψs + (1-w₁)·ψf + w₂·ψs + (1-w₂)·ψf toad_ i thought w2 related to SSKs? ArneBab uh, yes… ArneBab time = w₁·ψs + (1-w₁)·ψf + w₂·σs + (1-w₂)·σf toad_ you have to appreciate i'm only just getting back into maths and physics after 12 years ... toad_ (retaking a-levels to get a degree) ArneBab no probs, I’m also no expert in this. I try to get a relation between the time and the timeout, so we can try to find a minimum toad_ in any case, there are two different h's for the two uses of q(h) - h0 and h_avg toad_ h_avg for success and h0 for failure ArneBab hm, yes ArneBab which makes this harder… ArneBab it’s wrong anyway… the q(h_avg) was missing toad_ h_avg is somewhere between 5 and 10 imho toad_ at least it is if everything is working well and the input load isn't all really popular stuff (in which case it's answered quickly and can be ignored) ArneBab = τ(h) · (w₁+w₂) + q(h) · (2-w₁-w₂) + q(h_avg) · (w₁+w₂) ArneBab would have been too easy :) toad_ okay so here q(h) means q(h0) i.e. h = h0, max hops? ArneBab jepp, and max hops sinks with falling timeout toad_ hmm? ArneBab the max actual hops toad_ on the upside, q() is linear -- Torgal (~Torgal@78.251.49.8) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) toad_ hopefully ArneBab yes: q(h) = h·o ArneBab (in the congestion case) toad_ the problem i have is it looks like q(1) ~= time [ for a full request ], unless load is very low ArneBab so τ « q? ArneBab τ much smaller than q? toad_ of course it's bounded by timeouts, but i'd expect a runaway feedback loop until it reaches heavy timeouts and effectively cuts the htl toad_ well, with OLM, success time for a CHK is 1m25s, unsuccessful is 19sec, so transfer time is at least 1 minute toad_ and less than 1m25; but with NLM, unsuccessful is 3 min+ ArneBab
Re: [freenet-dev] Beyond New Load Management: A proposal
After discussing and going deeper into this, it became apparent that the problem is not overload of queues. I’ll repeat the result I came to here (and not in chatlog form :) ): The problem is in the load limiter: 1) we need to use all bandwidth, because latency depends on the number of finishing transfers. 2) SSKs fail 85% of the time. 3) the load limiter assumes that all SSKs succeed and reserves bandwidth for them. 4) this now bites us, because NLM has shorter transfer times and longer wait times. So the over-reservation of bandwidth for SSKs lasts longer. 5) solution: count each SSK as only average_SSK_success_rate * data_to_transfer_on_success. To (1): When we have less bandwidth, than less CHKs succeed per second, so less slots get freed and the queueing time it bigger. Best wishes, Arne Am Montag, 29. August 2011, 22:27:47 schrieb Matthew Toseland: Okay, I don't understand most of that, I might be able to check the math if it was written properly, but it looks difficult. However, as far as I can see: - The most obvious way to increase bandwidth usage would be to increase the timeout time for output bandwidth liability (and at the same time increase the relevant block transfer timeouts). - This would increase the number of slots but it would also increase the number of requests seeking them; I don't see why it would help matters. - Running an excessive number of requests without adjusting the block transfer timeouts would result in some of the transfers timing out. - It would also, as you mention, make SSK requests (especially failed SSK requests) even slower. - I am quite confident that Moore's Law DOES NOT hold for upload bandwidth. - As far as I can see, all the benefits of NLM re attackers are achieved by fair sharing. - A system which is more resistant to attacks but slower probably isn't all that interesting if the attacks in question are relatively expensive anyway. - Smaller block sizes would have a significant efficiency cost, and would probably make load management more difficult. I apologise if you see this as rather a broadside after I encouraged you to analyse the problem, but it is not yet a convincing demonstration that queueing is a viable strategy and not the spawn of satan! :) On Monday 29 Aug 2011 21:27:01 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: Am Montag, 29. August 2011, 14:32:13 schrieb Ian Clarke: Yes, small tweaks have worked so well for us for the last decade, leaving us pretty-much where we were in 2003. No, we don't understand how the current system works, there is no point in trying to fix something when we don't even know what is broken. I’d like to present a clue what is broken in NLM. Before I kill you with the log, here’s the result: With NLM the latency of a request is a function of the raw bandwidth (not so with OLM), and NLM used only half my bandwidth after it had been deployed for 2 days (at the start much more). τ ~ bandwidth. q_olm ~ 16s, q_nlm ~ τ! ; with τ: transfer time, q: queue time (time to find the node), nlm: new load management, olm: old load management. So first step: make sure all bandwidth gets used - maybe by allocating more slots till we use all allowed bandwidth. Better having to throttle a transfer than not using bandwidth. *NLM should with the current network be slower than OLM by 23%. But in 18 months it should actually be faster by ~8% — given Moores Law holds for upload bandwidth — because the routes are shorter.* The main advantage of NLM is, that it should be much more resilient against attackers (DoS). Now to the log - it’s math and not cleaned up; you have been warned :) ArneBab SSK-time: σ, CHK-time: ψ, success: Xs, fail: Xf. ArneBab queue-time: q, transfer-time: τ, hops remaining: h, total hops: h₀, w: success rate ArneBab ψs = τ(h) + q(h) ArneBab ψf = q(h) ArneBab ψ ~ w₁·ψs + (1-w₁)·ψf ArneBab σs = τ(h) + q(h) ArneBab σf = q(h) ArneBab σ ~ w₂·ψs + (1-w₂)·ψf; w₂ ~ 15% ArneBab num(ψ) / num(σ) ~ 1 ArneBab → time ~ σ + ψ ArneBab q(h) depends on timeouts, as do w₁ and w₂ ArneBab time = w₁·ψs + (1-w₁)·ψf + w₂·ψs + (1-w₂)·ψf ArneBab = w₁ · (τ(h) + q(h)) + (1-w₁)·q(h) + w₂ · (τ(h) + q(h)) + (1- w₂)·q(h) ArneBab = t(h) · (w₁+w₂) + 2·q(h) · (2-w₁-w₂) ArneBab = τ(h) · (w₁+w₂) + 2·q(h) · (2-w₁-w₂) ArneBab in the congestion case q(h) ~ timeout ArneBab timeout = o ArneBab timeout: o ArneBab w depends on the timeout *somehow*, but inversely ArneBab o=0 → w=0 ArneBab assumption: o = ∞ → w₂ ~ 20%, w₁ ~ 100% ArneBab assumption: o = ∞ → w₂ ~ 0.2, w₁ ~ 1 ArneBab correction: in the congestion case: q(h) ~ min(timeout, τ(h)) ArneBab timeout matters for q(h) only when timeout τ(h) ArneBab I try to: I still need a dependency of w on timeout ArneBab … lets call it t(w) ArneBab better: w(o) :) toad_ well, if there is a timeout, we have a fixed time, but we reduce
Re: [freenet-dev] Queueing doesn't use any bandwidth was Re: Beyond New Load Management
Am Dienstag, 30. August 2011, 12:32:17 schrieb Ian Clarke: Regardless, even if queueing doesn't use additional bandwidth or CPU resources, it also doesn't use any less of these resources - so it doesn't actually help to alleviate any load (unless it results in a timeout in which case it uses more of everything). Queueing reduces the total bandwidth needed to transfer a given chunk, because it gives the requests the leeway they need to be able to choose the best route. This results in shorter routes. Actually it is a very simple system which is used in any train station: You wait before you get in instead of just choosing another train and trying to find a different way. And the fewer contacts we have, the more important it gets to choose the right path. Also the increase in latency should be in the range of 20% for CHK requests and SSKs which succeed. Only unsuccessful requests should have a much higher latency than with OLM, because they don’t benefit from the faster transfers (shorter routes). Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Beyond New Load Management: A proposal
Am Dienstag, 30. August 2011, 01:08:16 schrieb Arne Babenhauserheide:
5) solution: count each SSK as only
average_SSK_success_rate * data_to_transfer_on_success.
Some more data:
chances of having at least this many successful transfers for 40 SSKs with a
mean success rate of 16%:
for i in {0..16}; do echo $i $(./spielfaehig.py 0.16 40 $i); done
0 1.0
1 0.999064224991
2 0.99193451064
3 0.965452714478
4 0.901560126912
5 0.788987472629
6 0.634602118184
7 0.463062835467
8 0.304359825607
9 0.179664603573
10 0.0952149293922
11 0.0453494074947
12 0.0194452402752
13 0.00752109980912
14 0.0026291447461
15 0.000832100029072
16 0.00023879002726
what this means: if a SSK has a mean success rate of 0.16, then using 0.25 as
value makes sure that 95% of the possible cases don’t exhaust the bandwidth.
We then use only 64% of the bandwidth on average, though. With 0.2, we’d get
68% of the possible distributions safe and use 80% of bandwidth on average.
Note: this is just a binomial spread:
from math import factorial
fac = factorial
def nük(n, k):
if k n: return 0
return fac(n) / (fac(k)*fac(n-k))
def binom(p, n, k):
return nük(n, k) * p** k * (1-p)**(n-k)
def spielfähig(p, n, min_spieler):
return sum([binom(p, n, k) for k in range(min_spieler, n+1)])
→ USK@6~ZDYdvAgMoUfG6M5Kwi7SQqyS-
gTcyFeaNN1Pf3FvY,OSOT4OEeg4xyYnwcGECZUX6~lnmYrZsz05Km7G7bvOQ,AQACAAE/bab/9/Content-
D426DC7.html
Best wishes,
Arne
signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
___
Devl mailing list
Devl@freenetproject.org
http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Beyond New Load Management: A proposal
Am Mittwoch, 31. August 2011, 13:25:35 schrieb Matthew Toseland: On Tuesday 30 Aug 2011 21:02:54 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: what this means: if a SSK has a mean success rate of 0.16, then using 0.25 as value makes sure that 95% of the possible cases don’t exhaust the bandwidth. We then use only 64% of the bandwidth on average, though. With 0.2, we’d get 68% of the possible distributions safe and use 80% of bandwidth on average. Only if there are no clusters - a single requestor fetches a bunch of stuff that is all already there, rather than polling keys that usually aren't. IMHO there will be. For instance, when a new chat client is started up, a lot of what it does will be fetching existing messages rather than polling for new ones. But these are in cache, so the routes will be very short. And SSKs with very high HTL (18, 17, 16) have good success rates, so this code won’t affect them much less than low-HTL SSKs (the unsuccessful ones). After HTL 15 or so, their success rate drops massively - which is quite easy to explain: The content mostly isn’t there. Simply take the success-rate per HTL - as in the statistics window. Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Freenet 0.7.5 build 1401
Am Donnerstag, 1. September 2011, 17:02:16 schrieb xor: On Wednesday 31 August 2011 15:05:59 Matthew Toseland wrote: I believed I had seriously screwed everything up and wasted 6 months' work at the same time; Don't be that strict with yourself. Even if the code isn't of much use you have at least most likely learned quite a few things from writing it. I wanted to say something similar. Trust in yourself. You are the one with the most experience with Freenet, and you made it a reality. Also I think that NLM is quite good. I reenabled it, and suddenly my uploads and downloads are working well again. I still think, it just needs finetuning, like OLM did, too. (adjusting the bandwidth limiter is fine tuning) Best wishes and many thanks for your work! Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] How to gather more data was Re: Beyond New Load Management: A proposal
Am Freitag, 2. September 2011, 12:20:02 schrieb Ian Clarke: On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Matthew Toseland t...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote: WE NEED MORE DATA. Well, my gut tells me that our existing scheme is likely too complicated to fix unless we are extremely fortuitous, however I'm happy to be wrong about that if others think that they have a good understanding of why we're having problems and how to fix them. If the load balancer does not have some hidden delicacies, there is a very simple check to see if my understanding is right. Since SSKs are mostly unsuccessfull and are about 50% of the requests, the bandwidth limiter essentially targets 50% of the bandwidth. Setting my bandwidth to about 150% of my actual bandwidth should make it guess my bandwidth more correctly, leaving 25% free for bursting¹. Currently the mean bandwidth with NLM and AIMDs for me is about 50 kB/s on a setting of 90kB/s outgoing. My line can handle about 120kB/s outgoing. So I set the bandwidth setting to 180kB/s. If I am right, Freenet should then consume about 90kB/s on average. If it stays at 50-60, that’s likely a limitation of my peers → no useful data → test would have to be done on a slower line or with more peers. If it goes down or I get very many timeouts, then I‘m likely wrong. It would be nice if some other people could replicate that. Note: I just disabled my testnet node to avoid skewing the data. Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] How to gather more data was Re: Beyond New Load Management: A proposal
Am Freitag, 2. September 2011, 23:34:29 schrieb Matthew Toseland: If the load balancer does not have some hidden delicacies, there is a very simple check to see if my understanding is right. Since SSKs are mostly unsuccessfull and are about 50% of the requests, the bandwidth limiter essentially targets 50% of the bandwidth. No, it takes into account that SSKs use very little bandwidth (1-2K versus 32K). That might explain the data I see: Bandwidth: 75 down, 85 up. I expected 90 kB/s. Theory: My claimed bandwidth doubling seems to have overshot, which gave too many timeouts (that is also supported by the volatility of the bandwidth: oszillating rapidly between 50 and 100 - this is with AIMDs on). Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] How to gather more data was Re: Beyond New Load Management: A proposal
Hi, At Sat, 03 Sep 2011 00:53:58 +0200, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: Am Freitag, 2. September 2011, 23:34:29 schrieb Matthew Toseland: If the load balancer does not have some hidden delicacies, there is a very simple check to see if my understanding is right. No, it takes into account that SSKs use very little bandwidth (1-2K versus 32K). Bandwidth: 75 down, 85 up. I changed the upload bandwidth to 120 out (about my real output bandwidth), and it adjusted itself to 70 down and 78 up. This is about 10-20% more than with a 90kB/s limit, but far away from using my 120 (it only uses 65%). It is less then the overshooting one, though → load limiter is a bit too strong. I assume that due to treating CHKs and SSKs the same, the load limiting also increased the number of CHKs, though these really need the bandwidth. If we have a mean transfer time of about 45s-1min for a 32k block on my node (with OLM: failed CHK time - successful time, with NLM it is likely a bit more complex). Now the search time of about 1 minute in NLM for unsuccessful downloads (successful have 1:24 min for me) will block IO. If we assume that a successful transfer still takes 45s, almost half the time is spent searching without any transfer → wasted bandwidth. (Disclaimer: The following is just an idea. Treat any “should” as “it might be a good idea to” - which is much longer and harder to read, so I go with the should). I assume that the deeper issue than just failing requests is that waiting should not be accounted as bandwidth. A requests should be accounted as 32kB * estimated success probability, so failing requests are not counted (conceptually, the implementation is another thing). The limiter should then use a time-frame of about 2× the time to complete a request and try to fill that → Since NLM has higher wait times, it also needs a bigger bandwidth limiter window. If it can get to 3 minutes for bulk, the bandwidth limiter window needs to be 6 minutes. … one more reason (with the assumption of a 2min limiter window), why NLM used so little bandwidth: Estimated 2 min search times with 1 min transfer time meant that essentially 2/3rd of the allocated bandwidth was overbooking, because 2/3rd of the transfers would not finish within the window, so their bandwidth reservation was carried on into the next period. This reduced the total number of running requests which in turn increased the wait times (since less requests finished in a given time period). Conclusion: NLM changes some basic assumptions about the load limiting. Because of that we need parameter tweaking to integrate it cleanly. Likely that can only be done in a real network. We already know that the network *does not break down* with NLM, so live tweaking is possible. Likely it also changes the assumptions for other parts, so these will need some tweaking, too. Toad spent years to optimize the parameters and helper parts to work well with the assumptions from OLM. It’s natural that NLM — which has slightly different characteristics — requires some optimization outside of its main algorithms, too. Best wishes, Arne Besides: Bad performance: If the inserter uses NLM and the downloader uses OLM, I think that might make it harder for the downloader to get the data (different routing). Worse: If some downloaders use NLM and some use OLM the packets might take different paths (NLM has shorter paths), which is likely to affect the caching negatively (needs to cache at both paths). Besides 2: Regin has the theory that the thread scheduler was the bottleneck, because his threads always hit the limit of 500 threads. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
