Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 23:49 +0100, Les Newell wrote:
> I never thought it needed one either. My reaction when I read the
> CoC 
> was pretty much 'Yeah, that makes sense'  and until the list blew up 
> that's about all I thought about it. Most mailing lists and forums
> have 
> something similar.
> 
> The SheetCam forum shows a CoC as part of the registration process.
> It's 
> the default boilerplate CoC/legal CYA supplied with the forum
> software 
> and no-one has ever queried it. It allows me to rule the forum with
> an 
> iron fist. Oh the feeling of power I get from booting spammers. Once
> I 
> even sent someone a PM, asking them to tone it down .
> It's 
> all part of my secret agenda to take over the world, well the hobby
> and 
> light industrial plasma CAM world at any rate.
> 
> Les

with an industrial plasma it is actually possible, and I have thought
about it many times, to machine a full blown complete Iron Man armor
suit :-)


> On 30/06/2021 21:01, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > Les, to be clear I never thought this group needed a CoC, I always
> > got
> > more or less the help I wanted, on the rare occasions when I needed
> > to
> > ask and the time spent on IRC or on the list was well spent. When
> > Jeff
> > announced the CoC it was a well-received surprise, I don't care at
> > all
> > if it wasn't announced as it was supposed to and voted for by the
> > group, it's still a good initiative that will find my support. Be
> > assured that I will act as the CoC orders if there is one
> > officially
> > approved.
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Advice on Tuning Servo System

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 30 June 2021 21:31:28 Matthew Herd wrote:

> Gene, that’s very odd behavior.  My machine isn’t homed (still just
> working on basic tuning) when I’m doing my tests and your behavior
> sounds similar.  I wonder if we could determine the reason for this
> difference in behavior.
>
I'd love to find it Matthew, but everything I've looked at with a $3200 
scope, siglents best 350mhz 4 trace sampler hasn't given me a single 
clue, but I can't probe most of the stuff that the halscope can but the 
halscope is too slow to catch everything, basicly not enough sample 
depth to really investigate it well.

Are you servo or stepper? Thats the only servo I have out of 13 more 
steppers here. And I built it from scratch, using an estate gate PMDC 
motor with an indexless quadrateur encoder in it, its a worm output, 
driving the worm in a BS-1 clone. Very high combined gear ratio.

> > On Jun 30, 2021, at 9:25 PM, Gene Heskett 
> > wrote:
> >
> > On Wednesday 30 June 2021 14:47:57 Les Newell wrote:
> >> On 30/06/2021 12:52, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> This is good to know Les, thank you. But for those who don't know
> >>> how to achieve that, a 1 axis example would be a huge help.
> >>
> >> In your INI file, there are two places where you can set the
> >> MIN_LIMIT and MAX_LIMIT (joint and axis). Just make sure you hit
> >> the axis limit before the joint limit. The difference does not need
> >> to be much.* *
> >>
> >>> In making a servo for axis A/B/C in a stepper machine, there is a
> >>> huge differential in how it runs unhomed, and how it runs after
> >>> homed. Being a full rotation device, it has no limits set.
> >>
> >> In that case you won't be using soft limits, so it makes no
> >> difference.
> >
> > I agree. But thats not how it seems to work. I won't say its
> > unusable when unhomed, but its 10% of its homed speed of it is
> > jogged whle unhomed and it suffers from windup badly even running
> > that slow. It acts like it afraid to move if not homed. The rest of
> > the stepper motor driven stuff works well, homed or not. And it, "A"
> > does more reversals while homing, some times visibly away from the
> > switch, with no false switch stuff detected. Once homed it behaves
> > itself exactly, stopping within an arc-second of where I sent it, as
> > long as it can get stopped w/o any overshoot.  Thats dangerous
> > because the pwmgen, if coasting too far, will try to reverse it
> > while its still turning and that crowbars and shuts down its 24 volt
> > 10 amp supply for about a 2 minute cooldown before a power cycle by
> > the f2 key restores it. So I'm forced to use much slower (10% or
> > less) speeds while homing it, than it can run during normal, homed
> > operation.
> >
> >> Les
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> 
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >> 
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page  > >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > 
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > 
>
> ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Advice on Tuning Servo System

[Curtis Dutton]

I'm not familiar with the Pico interface. Basee upon the docs it looks to
be a velocity mode stepgen.

I have a mesa velocity mode Stephen to servo system on my router.

This site was helpful to me getting this set up.
https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/servo.html.

If I recall I had to tune the servos drives themselves and the velocity
control pid loops "simultaneously". Which in reality went somethijg like
this.

1. in servo drive use autotuning. this gets reasonable decent tuning in the
drive.

2. get the linuxcnc velocity pid tuning to the point where I could get
homing working properly.

3. make your Ferror values temporarily large.

3. follow the advice from the link above open up haltune and tune your
velocity loops. keep tuning as long as the results keep improving. (not
looking for perfect just improvement)

4. go back into your servo drives. modify the parameters for them...again
looking for improvements. halscope is your friend here too. halscope is
tough to learn how to use at first but important.

5. go back to step 3. repeat step 3 and 4 until things tighten up to your
liking.

6. readjust your homing setup and limits...

7. profit? :-)

-Curt

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 9:45 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Wednesday 30 June 2021 14:47:57 Les Newell wrote:
>
> > On 30/06/2021 12:52, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > This is good to know Les, thank you. But for those who don't know
> > > how to achieve that, a 1 axis example would be a huge help.
> >
> > In your INI file, there are two places where you can set the MIN_LIMIT
> > and MAX_LIMIT (joint and axis). Just make sure you hit the axis limit
> > before the joint limit. The difference does not need to be much.*
> > *
> Re-reading that, linuxcnc will not even start if they don't match
> exactly. Unless that has been fixed in the month since I last played
> with it. I will dbl check that tomorrow but not tonight, its pretty
> noisy out at 21:30 here in north central WV. I've already had one
> failure of an hour and 45 minutes and it hasn't done me a lot of good to
> have the bios restart, due to my standby's start time of just over 5
> seconds, thats not enough time to do a cold reboot so it crashes until I
> go out and do a full powerdown from each machines switch.  And thats the
> condition of the three dell 7010's at the moment. :(
>
> Thanks Les. To becontinued...
> >
> > > In making a servo for axis A/B/C in a stepper machine, there is a
> > > huge differential in how it runs unhomed, and how it runs after
> > > homed. Being a full rotation device, it has no limits set.
> >
> > In that case you won't be using soft limits, so it makes no
> > difference.
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Mounting spindle sensors.

[John Dammeyer]

OK.  Just a quick video with of course some questions.
https://youtu.be/BpafBR_Cfuw

Here's the cutting of one flat.  As the video comments state:

Spindle RPM 833, Feed Rate 3 ipm, Cutter size 14mm (0.55")
Stepover is 0.15" or about 25% of cutter diameter  (2 flute HSS)
Depth of cut is 0.025" per pass
Total depth to create 5/8" hex size is 0.1025".  Spin Index turned 60 degrees 
and then G-Code started again.

I arrived at these values by trial and error using the MDI interface.  Once I 
had a reasonable set of movements I used the capture highlighted MDI commands 
to clip board.  First time for that.  Then paste into text file.  Add a few 
more G-Code items.  Then save and load into AXIS.

And run.  After the first couple of flats I started doing other things.  When 
the spindle stopped went over and rotated.

And yes Andy Pugh, I really do need to get my STMBL driven Harmonic Drive 
going...  

Anyway, my question.  With a bit of oil on the part the chips come off smoking. 
 How's my speed?  Too fast?  Too slow?  Just . right?  (I sound like 
goldilocks and the 3 bears).

The second part had a small disaster but I'll comment on that in a separate 
posting.  

John





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Re: [Emc-users] Advice on Tuning Servo System

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 30 June 2021 14:47:57 Les Newell wrote:

> On 30/06/2021 12:52, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > This is good to know Les, thank you. But for those who don't know
> > how to achieve that, a 1 axis example would be a huge help.
>
> In your INI file, there are two places where you can set the MIN_LIMIT
> and MAX_LIMIT (joint and axis). Just make sure you hit the axis limit
> before the joint limit. The difference does not need to be much.*
> *
Re-reading that, linuxcnc will not even start if they don't match 
exactly. Unless that has been fixed in the month since I last played 
with it. I will dbl check that tomorrow but not tonight, its pretty 
noisy out at 21:30 here in north central WV. I've already had one 
failure of an hour and 45 minutes and it hasn't done me a lot of good to 
have the bios restart, due to my standby's start time of just over 5 
seconds, thats not enough time to do a cold reboot so it crashes until I 
go out and do a full powerdown from each machines switch.  And thats the 
condition of the three dell 7010's at the moment. :(

Thanks Les. To becontinued...
>
> > In making a servo for axis A/B/C in a stepper machine, there is a
> > huge differential in how it runs unhomed, and how it runs after
> > homed. Being a full rotation device, it has no limits set.
>
> In that case you won't be using soft limits, so it makes no
> difference.
>
> Les
>
>
> ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Advice on Tuning Servo System

[Matthew Herd]

Gene, that’s very odd behavior.  My machine isn’t homed (still just working on 
basic tuning) when I’m doing my tests and your behavior sounds similar.  I 
wonder if we could determine the reason for this difference in behavior.

> On Jun 30, 2021, at 9:25 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday 30 June 2021 14:47:57 Les Newell wrote:
> 
>> On 30/06/2021 12:52, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> This is good to know Les, thank you. But for those who don't know
>>> how to achieve that, a 1 axis example would be a huge help.
>> 
>> In your INI file, there are two places where you can set the MIN_LIMIT
>> and MAX_LIMIT (joint and axis). Just make sure you hit the axis limit
>> before the joint limit. The difference does not need to be much.*
>> *
>> 
>>> In making a servo for axis A/B/C in a stepper machine, there is a
>>> huge differential in how it runs unhomed, and how it runs after
>>> homed. Being a full rotation device, it has no limits set.
>> 
>> In that case you won't be using soft limits, so it makes no
>> difference.
> 
> I agree. But thats not how it seems to work. I won't say its unusable 
> when unhomed, but its 10% of its homed speed of it is jogged whle 
> unhomed and it suffers from windup badly even running that slow. It acts 
> like it afraid to move if not homed. The rest of the stepper motor 
> driven stuff works well, homed or not. And it, "A" does more reversals 
> while homing, some times visibly away from the switch, with no false 
> switch stuff detected. Once homed it behaves itself exactly, stopping 
> within an arc-second of where I sent it, as long as it can get stopped 
> w/o any overshoot.  Thats dangerous because the pwmgen, if coasting too 
> far, will try to reverse it while its still turning and that crowbars 
> and shuts down its 24 volt 10 amp supply for about a 2 minute cooldown 
> before a power cycle by the f2 key restores it. So I'm forced to use 
> much slower (10% or less) speeds while homing it, than it can run during 
> normal, homed operation.
> 
>> Les
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users 
>> 
> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page  >
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users 
> 

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Re: [Emc-users] Advice on Tuning Servo System

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 30 June 2021 14:47:57 Les Newell wrote:

> On 30/06/2021 12:52, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > This is good to know Les, thank you. But for those who don't know
> > how to achieve that, a 1 axis example would be a huge help.
>
> In your INI file, there are two places where you can set the MIN_LIMIT
> and MAX_LIMIT (joint and axis). Just make sure you hit the axis limit
> before the joint limit. The difference does not need to be much.*
> *
>
> > In making a servo for axis A/B/C in a stepper machine, there is a
> > huge differential in how it runs unhomed, and how it runs after
> > homed. Being a full rotation device, it has no limits set.
>
> In that case you won't be using soft limits, so it makes no
> difference.

I agree. But thats not how it seems to work. I won't say its unusable 
when unhomed, but its 10% of its homed speed of it is jogged whle 
unhomed and it suffers from windup badly even running that slow. It acts 
like it afraid to move if not homed. The rest of the stepper motor 
driven stuff works well, homed or not. And it, "A" does more reversals 
while homing, some times visibly away from the switch, with no false 
switch stuff detected. Once homed it behaves itself exactly, stopping 
within an arc-second of where I sent it, as long as it can get stopped 
w/o any overshoot.  Thats dangerous because the pwmgen, if coasting too 
far, will try to reverse it while its still turning and that crowbars 
and shuts down its 24 volt 10 amp supply for about a 2 minute cooldown 
before a power cycle by the f2 key restores it. So I'm forced to use 
much slower (10% or less) speeds while homing it, than it can run during 
normal, homed operation.

> Les
>
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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[Emc-users] four axis foam cutter 2.8 config

[Ralph Stirling]

I upgraded our 4-axis hotwire foam cutter to 2.8
recently, and have not been able to get it running
again yet.  The auto conversion doesn't seem to
be quite sufficient for foam cutter configurations.

I now have homing on all four axes working (XY;UV),
but once homing is finished I can't jog U or V.  The
backplot shows motion, but the axes don't move.
X and Y jog properly.  The U and V (and joint 2 and
3) sections are copied directly from X/0 and Y/1
with only the axis and joint designation changing.

Does anybody have a functioning 2.8 foam cutter
configuration I could look at?

Thanks,
-- Ralph

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[jeanfrancois]

Jeff,

Noted thank you,

See you regards,

Jean-François

Le 29/06/2021 à 03:25, Jeff Epler a écrit :

The LinuxCNC community including this mailing list now has a written
code of conduct. Unless it's your idea of fun to harass other people,
this is a big non-event for you.

You can read the code of conduct here:
https://www.linuxcnc.org/CODE_OF_CONDUCT/

Jeff


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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Les Newell]

I never thought it needed one either. My reaction when I read the CoC 
was pretty much 'Yeah, that makes sense'  and until the list blew up 
that's about all I thought about it. Most mailing lists and forums have 
something similar.


The SheetCam forum shows a CoC as part of the registration process. It's 
the default boilerplate CoC/legal CYA supplied with the forum software 
and no-one has ever queried it. It allows me to rule the forum with an 
iron fist. Oh the feeling of power I get from booting spammers. Once I 
even sent someone a PM, asking them to tone it down . It's 
all part of my secret agenda to take over the world, well the hobby and 
light industrial plasma CAM world at any rate.


Les

On 30/06/2021 21:01, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

Les, to be clear I never thought this group needed a CoC, I always got
more or less the help I wanted, on the rare occasions when I needed to
ask and the time spent on IRC or on the list was well spent. When Jeff
announced the CoC it was a well-received surprise, I don't care at all
if it wasn't announced as it was supposed to and voted for by the
group, it's still a good initiative that will find my support. Be
assured that I will act as the CoC orders if there is one officially
approved.





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

Les, to be clear I never thought this group needed a CoC, I always got
more or less the help I wanted, on the rare occasions when I needed to
ask and the time spent on IRC or on the list was well spent. When Jeff
announced the CoC it was a well-received surprise, I don't care at all
if it wasn't announced as it was supposed to and voted for by the
group, it's still a good initiative that will find my support. Be
assured that I will act as the CoC orders if there is one officially
approved.



On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 21:57 +0100, Les Newell wrote:
> Valerio, I agree completely. I also think we should give Jeff a
> break 
> here. LinuxCNC is a loosely organized group and things only really
> get 
> done when someone sees a problem and tries to fix it. Many open
> source 
> projects have a CoC so Jeff put something together, trying to help.
> He 
> now pretty much gets accused of being a dictator.  I'm sure that is
> far 
> from his intention.
> 
> > The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
> > voting of the CoC.
> 
> Historically when someone comes up with a new feature they announce
> it 
> on the list, there is a bit of discussion about it and in most cases
> it 
> gets added to the source, possibly with some modification. No name 
> calling or political posturing. That is probably closer to how Jeff 
> expected this to go.
> 
> Les
> 
> 
> On 29/06/2021 21:21, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > This is what I think:
> > 
> > The point of a CoC is to tell people that the expected behavior is
> > to
> > act kindly with respect to each other, and the CoC must foresee and
> > provide means to resolve any controvercies that may arise, and do
> > this
> > kindly as much as possible in order to reestablish the community
> > aggregation and mutual respect.
> > 
> > I don't understand why there is so much friction on adopting a CoC,
> > the
> > vast majority of open source projects around the world has a CoC
> > which
> > is created, reviewed and accepted by community members.
> > 
> > The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
> > voting of the CoC.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Scott Harwell via Emc-users]

 I understand that people assume you are up to speed on their project. I can be 
a little slow on picking up something in the middle without examples and 
comments. It's a lot like reading someone else's code (or your own code a month 
later).I know I am guilty of this, my presentations on my projects were short. 
I assumed other people knew what as happening, and I was often wrong about 
that. This is a wonderful forum and the people are always a help. In my case 
I'm having to learn a lot, I haven't used Unix sense AutoCad forced me to 
Windows in the 90s' and now a move to Linux is a little overwhelming.
Scott
  

On Wednesday, June 30, 2021, 1:24:46 PM CDT, Bari  
wrote:  
 
 On 6/30/21 12:59 PM, Scott Harwell via Emc-users wrote:

>  I wish there was a little more "mansplaining" in some of the "docs". I still 
>haven't decided how to set center of rotation for "A" and "C" in the 
>Kinematics example.


I agree. Can we adopt a code of technical writing or CoT for short?


What happens if somebody violates the CoC? Do they get their bits 
banned? Do they get a strongly worded letter followed by stern looks?


A social psychologist would not be surprised by the reactions and 
dynamics over this. We have the people that want rules and authority to 
feel comforted vs those that don't require any amendments to "do unto 
others".




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Les Newell]

Hi Gene,

I don't think it was a NIH issue, more a lack of resources and 
motivation. As you know getting LCNC working on the Pi platform is hard 
work and it is rather under powered for the task. X86 boxes are well 
supported and are easy to obtain, often for free. If you need low power 
consumption, celeron based boxes are available with very low power 
consumption. This means the Pi doesn't offer any significant advantage. 
As has been mentioned several times before, stuff only gets done when 
someone volunteers to do it. You volunteered to work on the Pi and 
no-one else could see any real advantage for themselves so the work was 
left to you.


Les



Since this truly is an all volunteer thing I was somewhat disappointed by
the lack of response to my offers, but I didn't go off in a huff, I just
built my own buildbot out of the pi.

But a pi3 it must be admitted was a little slow taking about 8 to 12
hours to build master.  The 2 gig pi4 with its usb3 interface for
adapters to SSD's shaves that down to around an hour. Both of them need
active cooling and 5 amp supplies to get power failure to power failure
uptimes.

That lack of any kind of response disappointed me a bit, and I still
blame it on an NIH attitude, but I've been known to be the upstart
troublemaker since 1946. Maybe I didn't use the correct language? IDK.




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Re: [Emc-users] Advice on Tuning Servo System

[Les Newell]

On 30/06/2021 12:52, Gene Heskett wrote:

This is good to know Les, thank you. But for those who don't know how to
achieve that, a 1 axis example would be a huge help.



In your INI file, there are two places where you can set the MIN_LIMIT 
and MAX_LIMIT (joint and axis). Just make sure you hit the axis limit 
before the joint limit. The difference does not need to be much.*

*



In making a servo for axis A/B/C in a stepper machine, there is a huge
differential in how it runs unhomed, and how it runs after homed. Being
a full rotation device, it has no limits set.



In that case you won't be using soft limits, so it makes no difference.

Les


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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Bari]

On 6/30/21 12:59 PM, Scott Harwell via Emc-users wrote:


  I wish there was a little more "mansplaining" in some of the "docs". I still haven't decided how 
to set center of rotation for "A" and "C" in the Kinematics example.



I agree. Can we adopt a code of technical writing or CoT for short?


What happens if somebody violates the CoC? Do they get their bits 
banned? Do they get a strongly worded letter followed by stern looks?



A social psychologist would not be surprised by the reactions and 
dynamics over this. We have the people that want rules and authority to 
feel comforted vs those that don't require any amendments to "do unto 
others".





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Feral Engineer]

That much I'll definitely agree with!


Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
www.patreon.com/theferalengineer

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 2:03 PM Scott Harwell via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

>  I wish there was a little more "mansplaining" in some of the "docs". I
> still haven't decided how to set center of rotation for "A" and "C" in the
> Kinematics example.
>
> Scott
> On Wednesday, June 30, 2021, 12:43:30 PM CDT, Feral Engineer <
> theferalengin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  CoC doesn't really affect me because I don't deliberately try to be a
> d-bag. In the time I've been on these mailing lists, I haven't seen any
> misconduct. I think it's pretty much a moot point and it'll be forgotten
> about as quickly as it came to attention.
>
> Going back to something that was said yesterday, I never got an
> elitist/holier than thou vibe from anyone, although I did get answers that
> were above my pay grade at the time of asking, which frustrated me a
> little. I feel that asking a simple question to someone that has done
> something for years can kinda fall on deaf ears, because they don't
> remember the struggle of learning something like creating a net command or
> navigating the difference between setp and sets.
>
> Things can sometimes be taken out of context and seem dickish, when the
> intentions were good, but the information was just a little above the level
> of understanding. "Create a net command" isn't the answer some people are
> looking for, "create a net command and here's how they're constructed" is
> really what they're after, but nowadays, that can be seen as
> "mansplaining", so it's lose/lose.
>
> Even after 17 years of teaching CNC, I still have the issue of deciding
> whether or not to give someone the "down and dirty" or the "step by step"
> explanation, which is why I always ask people their current level of
> knowledge and train by my "3E" method - explain, example, execute.
>
> Phil T.
> The Feral Engineer
>
> Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
> www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
>
> Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
> www.patreon.com/theferalengineer
>
> On Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 1:22 PM Bruce Layne 
> wrote:
>
> > I've been a member of this community for approximately 14 years.  In
> > that time, I've almost exclusively witnessed camaraderie with good
> > people helping each other and learning together.  In the short time
> > since the introduction of the Code of Conduct, I've seen arguing,
> > acrimony, ad hominem attacks, people publicly leaving the community and
> > almost certainly many more who left without a public announcement.
> >
> > See how much better we're behaving now that we have a Code of Conduct
> > regulating our behavior?  We are certainly poised for future success now
> > that we have codified rules to ensure that everyone is nice to everyone
> > else.
> >
> > I'm an engineer.  I solve technical problems.  There are some simple
> > rules for that.
> >
> > 1) If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.
> >
> > 2) Understand what you're trying to improve.
> >
> > 3) Avoid random changes hoping they'll be improvements.
> >
> > 4) Before effecting a change, consider the larger picture to avoid
> > wrecking something else.
> >
> > 5) If you made it worse, undo your modification because it's not working.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > I might still make the odd pull request but this mailing list, I'm out.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Scott Harwell via Emc-users]

 I wish there was a little more "mansplaining" in some of the "docs". I still 
haven't decided how to set center of rotation for "A" and "C" in the Kinematics 
example.

Scott  
On Wednesday, June 30, 2021, 12:43:30 PM CDT, Feral Engineer 
 wrote:  
 
 CoC doesn't really affect me because I don't deliberately try to be a
d-bag. In the time I've been on these mailing lists, I haven't seen any
misconduct. I think it's pretty much a moot point and it'll be forgotten
about as quickly as it came to attention.

Going back to something that was said yesterday, I never got an
elitist/holier than thou vibe from anyone, although I did get answers that
were above my pay grade at the time of asking, which frustrated me a
little. I feel that asking a simple question to someone that has done
something for years can kinda fall on deaf ears, because they don't
remember the struggle of learning something like creating a net command or
navigating the difference between setp and sets.

Things can sometimes be taken out of context and seem dickish, when the
intentions were good, but the information was just a little above the level
of understanding. "Create a net command" isn't the answer some people are
looking for, "create a net command and here's how they're constructed" is
really what they're after, but nowadays, that can be seen as
"mansplaining", so it's lose/lose.

Even after 17 years of teaching CNC, I still have the issue of deciding
whether or not to give someone the "down and dirty" or the "step by step"
explanation, which is why I always ask people their current level of
knowledge and train by my "3E" method - explain, example, execute.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
www.patreon.com/theferalengineer

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 1:22 PM Bruce Layne 
wrote:

> I've been a member of this community for approximately 14 years.  In
> that time, I've almost exclusively witnessed camaraderie with good
> people helping each other and learning together.  In the short time
> since the introduction of the Code of Conduct, I've seen arguing,
> acrimony, ad hominem attacks, people publicly leaving the community and
> almost certainly many more who left without a public announcement.
>
> See how much better we're behaving now that we have a Code of Conduct
> regulating our behavior?  We are certainly poised for future success now
> that we have codified rules to ensure that everyone is nice to everyone
> else.
>
> I'm an engineer.  I solve technical problems.  There are some simple
> rules for that.
>
> 1) If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.
>
> 2) Understand what you're trying to improve.
>
> 3) Avoid random changes hoping they'll be improvements.
>
> 4) Before effecting a change, consider the larger picture to avoid
> wrecking something else.
>
> 5) If you made it worse, undo your modification because it's not working.
>
>
>
>
>
> > I might still make the odd pull request but this mailing list, I'm out.
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Feral Engineer]

CoC doesn't really affect me because I don't deliberately try to be a
d-bag. In the time I've been on these mailing lists, I haven't seen any
misconduct. I think it's pretty much a moot point and it'll be forgotten
about as quickly as it came to attention.

Going back to something that was said yesterday, I never got an
elitist/holier than thou vibe from anyone, although I did get answers that
were above my pay grade at the time of asking, which frustrated me a
little. I feel that asking a simple question to someone that has done
something for years can kinda fall on deaf ears, because they don't
remember the struggle of learning something like creating a net command or
navigating the difference between setp and sets.

Things can sometimes be taken out of context and seem dickish, when the
intentions were good, but the information was just a little above the level
of understanding. "Create a net command" isn't the answer some people are
looking for, "create a net command and here's how they're constructed" is
really what they're after, but nowadays, that can be seen as
"mansplaining", so it's lose/lose.

Even after 17 years of teaching CNC, I still have the issue of deciding
whether or not to give someone the "down and dirty" or the "step by step"
explanation, which is why I always ask people their current level of
knowledge and train by my "3E" method - explain, example, execute.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
www.patreon.com/theferalengineer

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 1:22 PM Bruce Layne 
wrote:

> I've been a member of this community for approximately 14 years.  In
> that time, I've almost exclusively witnessed camaraderie with good
> people helping each other and learning together.  In the short time
> since the introduction of the Code of Conduct, I've seen arguing,
> acrimony, ad hominem attacks, people publicly leaving the community and
> almost certainly many more who left without a public announcement.
>
> See how much better we're behaving now that we have a Code of Conduct
> regulating our behavior?  We are certainly poised for future success now
> that we have codified rules to ensure that everyone is nice to everyone
> else.
>
> I'm an engineer.  I solve technical problems.  There are some simple
> rules for that.
>
> 1) If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.
>
> 2) Understand what you're trying to improve.
>
> 3) Avoid random changes hoping they'll be improvements.
>
> 4) Before effecting a change, consider the larger picture to avoid
> wrecking something else.
>
> 5) If you made it worse, undo your modification because it's not working.
>
>
>
>
>
> > I might still make the odd pull request but this mailing list, I'm out.
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Scott Harwell via Emc-users]

 Bruce,
You left out "KISS". 

We seem to have a solution in search of a problem.
Scott

On Wednesday, June 30, 2021, 12:21:23 PM CDT, Bruce Layne 
 wrote:  
 
 I've been a member of this community for approximately 14 years.  In 
that time, I've almost exclusively witnessed camaraderie with good 
people helping each other and learning together.  In the short time 
since the introduction of the Code of Conduct, I've seen arguing, 
acrimony, ad hominem attacks, people publicly leaving the community and 
almost certainly many more who left without a public announcement.

See how much better we're behaving now that we have a Code of Conduct 
regulating our behavior?  We are certainly poised for future success now 
that we have codified rules to ensure that everyone is nice to everyone 
else.

I'm an engineer.  I solve technical problems.  There are some simple 
rules for that.

1) If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

2) Understand what you're trying to improve.

3) Avoid random changes hoping they'll be improvements.

4) Before effecting a change, consider the larger picture to avoid 
wrecking something else.

5) If you made it worse, undo your modification because it's not working.





> I might still make the odd pull request but this mailing list, I'm out.


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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dave Matthews]

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 5:31 PM Les Newell 
wrote:

> On 29/06/2021 22:06, R C wrote:
> >
> -- snipped
>
> The sad thing is that in 6 months everyone will have forgotten about
> this and the list will continue just as it was, with or without a CoC.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> If that is the expected case then there is absolutely no need for a CoC is
there?

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Bruce Layne]

I've been a member of this community for approximately 14 years.  In 
that time, I've almost exclusively witnessed camaraderie with good 
people helping each other and learning together.  In the short time 
since the introduction of the Code of Conduct, I've seen arguing, 
acrimony, ad hominem attacks, people publicly leaving the community and 
almost certainly many more who left without a public announcement.


See how much better we're behaving now that we have a Code of Conduct 
regulating our behavior?  We are certainly poised for future success now 
that we have codified rules to ensure that everyone is nice to everyone 
else.


I'm an engineer.  I solve technical problems.  There are some simple 
rules for that.


1) If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

2) Understand what you're trying to improve.

3) Avoid random changes hoping they'll be improvements.

4) Before effecting a change, consider the larger picture to avoid 
wrecking something else.


5) If you made it worse, undo your modification because it's not working.






I might still make the odd pull request but this mailing list, I'm out.



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 17:56:38 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> it's true, never talk to detractors, they bring you to their level and
> beat you for experience.

So pointing out that a CoC is pointless unless you have an agenda you want to 
force onto others - which by the way you proved to be the reason for the CoC in 
your forum - is distraction? Interesting. Makes me wonder why you have still 
not said what that CoC sould be good for.

Nik


> 
> 
> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:52 +, Scott Harwell via Emc-users wrote:
> >  I hate to point this out, but this response appears to be a
> > violation of the CoC.
> > Scott(still working on the smiley face thing)
> > 
> > On Wednesday, June 30, 2021, 10:42:15 AM CDT, Valerio Bellizzomi
> >  wrote:  
> >  
> >  On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 17:30 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 17:21:08 +0200
> > >   Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 16:14 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 16:04:47 +0200
> > > > >   Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> > > > > > >   Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > > > > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the
> > > > > > > > > necessity
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > having a
> > > > > > > > > code
> > > > > > > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > >   Mark
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > seems
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is
> > > > > > > > concerned
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a
> > > > > > > > necessary
> > > > > > > > thing
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > an organization to be successful in the long term and
> > > > > > > > vis-
> > > > > > > > a-vis 
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might
> > > > > > > > interact.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop
> > > > > > > it.
> > > > > > > CoC
> > > > > > > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since
> > > > > > you do
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > and will never be part of my organization.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Oh cool. Then can I assume the CoC nonsens of your organisation
> > > > > will
> > > > > not be forced on this organisation (or mailinglist or forum or
> > > > > whatever you might call it)? Because it is, then there's an
> > > > > agenda we
> > > > > should talk about in public.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Nik
> > > > 
> > > > 1) 
> > > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/72-official-code-of-ethics-and-professional-conduct
> > > > 
> > > > 2) 
> > > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
> > > > 
> > > > 3) 
> > > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/185-why-choose-selroc-systems
> > > 
> > > So your forum has 139 postings in total, but several pages CoC. Of
> > > course the CoC did attract a lot of people to participate, didn't
> > > it?
> > > 
> > > Nik
> > 
> > You can't understand what you read, that defect is called functional
> > illiteracy.
> > 
> > 
> > On 
> > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
> >  :
> > 
> > "This is sensed to be a small professional quality forum. The posts
> > written here should always follow the rules written here 
> > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/gen...sional-conduct;
> > 
> > 
> > i.e. This means I admit to the forum only people I know and trust.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >   
> > ___
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> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with 
the NSA, CIA ...


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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

it's true, never talk to detractors, they bring you to their level and
beat you for experience.


On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:52 +, Scott Harwell via Emc-users wrote:
>  I hate to point this out, but this response appears to be a
> violation of the CoC.
> Scott(still working on the smiley face thing)
> 
> On Wednesday, June 30, 2021, 10:42:15 AM CDT, Valerio Bellizzomi
>  wrote:  
>  
>  On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 17:30 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 17:21:08 +0200
> >   Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 16:14 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 16:04:47 +0200
> > > >   Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> > > > > >   Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > > > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the
> > > > > > > > necessity
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > having a
> > > > > > > > code
> > > > > > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > >   Mark
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > seems
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is
> > > > > > > concerned
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a
> > > > > > > necessary
> > > > > > > thing
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > an organization to be successful in the long term and
> > > > > > > vis-
> > > > > > > a-vis 
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might
> > > > > > > interact.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > CoC
> > > > > > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
> > > > > 
> > > > > It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since
> > > > > you do
> > > > > not
> > > > > and will never be part of my organization.
> > > > 
> > > > Oh cool. Then can I assume the CoC nonsens of your organisation
> > > > will
> > > > not be forced on this organisation (or mailinglist or forum or
> > > > whatever you might call it)? Because it is, then there's an
> > > > agenda we
> > > > should talk about in public.
> > > > 
> > > > Nik
> > > 
> > > 1) 
> > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/72-official-code-of-ethics-and-professional-conduct
> > > 
> > > 2) 
> > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
> > > 
> > > 3) 
> > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/185-why-choose-selroc-systems
> > 
> > So your forum has 139 postings in total, but several pages CoC. Of
> > course the CoC did attract a lot of people to participate, didn't
> > it?
> > 
> > Nik
> 
> You can't understand what you read, that defect is called functional
> illiteracy.
> 
> 
> On 
> https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
>  :
> 
> "This is sensed to be a small professional quality forum. The posts
> written here should always follow the rules written here 
> https://www.selroc.systems/forum/gen...sional-conduct;
> 
> 
> i.e. This means I admit to the forum only people I know and trust.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 17:40:09 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 17:30 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 17:21:08 +0200
> >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 16:14 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 16:04:47 +0200
> > > >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> > > > > >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > > > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > having a
> > > > > > > > code
> > > > > > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > >  Mark
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > seems
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a
> > > > > > > necessary
> > > > > > > thing
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-
> > > > > > > a-vis 
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might
> > > > > > > interact.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > CoC
> > > > > > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
> > > > > 
> > > > > It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since
> > > > > you do
> > > > > not
> > > > > and will never be part of my organization.
> > > > 
> > > > Oh cool. Then can I assume the CoC nonsens of your organisation
> > > > will
> > > > not be forced on this organisation (or mailinglist or forum or
> > > > whatever you might call it)? Because it is, then there's an
> > > > agenda we
> > > > should talk about in public.
> > > > 
> > > > Nik
> > > 
> > > 1) 
> > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/72-official-code-of-ethics-and-professional-conduct
> > > 
> > > 2) 
> > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
> > > 
> > > 3) 
> > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/185-why-choose-selroc-systems
> > 
> > So your forum has 139 postings in total, but several pages CoC. Of
> > course the CoC did attract a lot of people to participate, didn't it?
> > 
> > Nik
> 
> 
> You can't understand what you read, that defect is called functional
> illiteracy.
> 
> 
> On 
> https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
>  :
> 
> "This is sensed to be a small professional quality forum. The posts
> written here should always follow the rules written here 
> https://www.selroc.systems/forum/gen...sional-conduct;
> 
> 
> i.e. This means I admit to the forum only people I know and trust.

So you want to do the same on the linuxcnc forum and mailinglist?


> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Scott Harwell via Emc-users]

 I hate to point this out, but this response appears to be a violation of the 
CoC.
Scott(still working on the smiley face thing)

On Wednesday, June 30, 2021, 10:42:15 AM CDT, Valerio Bellizzomi 
 wrote:  
 
 On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 17:30 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 17:21:08 +0200
>  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 16:14 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 16:04:47 +0200
> > >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> > > > >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > having a
> > > > > > > code
> > > > > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >  Mark
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > seems
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > being
> > > > > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a
> > > > > > necessary
> > > > > > thing
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-
> > > > > > a-vis 
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might
> > > > > > interact.
> > > > > 
> > > > > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop
> > > > > it.
> > > > > CoC
> > > > > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
> > > > 
> > > > It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
> > > > 
> > > > I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since
> > > > you do
> > > > not
> > > > and will never be part of my organization.
> > > 
> > > Oh cool. Then can I assume the CoC nonsens of your organisation
> > > will
> > > not be forced on this organisation (or mailinglist or forum or
> > > whatever you might call it)? Because it is, then there's an
> > > agenda we
> > > should talk about in public.
> > > 
> > > Nik
> > 
> > 1) 
> > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/72-official-code-of-ethics-and-professional-conduct
> > 
> > 2) 
> > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
> > 
> > 3) 
> > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/185-why-choose-selroc-systems
> 
> So your forum has 139 postings in total, but several pages CoC. Of
> course the CoC did attract a lot of people to participate, didn't it?
> 
> Nik


You can't understand what you read, that defect is called functional
illiteracy.


On 
https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
 :

"This is sensed to be a small professional quality forum. The posts
written here should always follow the rules written here 
https://www.selroc.systems/forum/gen...sional-conduct;


i.e. This means I admit to the forum only people I know and trust.





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 17:30 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 17:21:08 +0200
>  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 16:14 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 16:04:47 +0200
> > >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> > > > >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > having a
> > > > > > > code
> > > > > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > >  Mark
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > seems
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > being
> > > > > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a
> > > > > > necessary
> > > > > > thing
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-
> > > > > > a-vis 
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might
> > > > > > interact.
> > > > > 
> > > > > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop
> > > > > it.
> > > > > CoC
> > > > > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
> > > > 
> > > > It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
> > > > 
> > > > I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since
> > > > you do
> > > > not
> > > > and will never be part of my organization.
> > > 
> > > Oh cool. Then can I assume the CoC nonsens of your organisation
> > > will
> > > not be forced on this organisation (or mailinglist or forum or
> > > whatever you might call it)? Because it is, then there's an
> > > agenda we
> > > should talk about in public.
> > > 
> > > Nik
> > 
> > 1) 
> > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/72-official-code-of-ethics-and-professional-conduct
> > 
> > 2) 
> > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
> > 
> > 3) 
> > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/185-why-choose-selroc-systems
> 
> So your forum has 139 postings in total, but several pages CoC. Of
> course the CoC did attract a lot of people to participate, didn't it?
> 
> Nik


You can't understand what you read, that defect is called functional
illiteracy.


On 
https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
 :

"This is sensed to be a small professional quality forum. The posts
written here should always follow the rules written here 
https://www.selroc.systems/forum/gen...sional-conduct;


i.e. This means I admit to the forum only people I know and trust.





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 17:21:08 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 16:14 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 16:04:47 +0200
> >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> > > >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of
> > > > > > having a
> > > > > > code
> > > > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >  Mark
> > > > > 
> > > > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it
> > > > > seems
> > > > > to
> > > > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned
> > > > > about
> > > > > being
> > > > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary
> > > > > thing
> > > > > for
> > > > > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis 
> > > > > of
> > > > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.
> > > > 
> > > > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop it.
> > > > CoC
> > > > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
> > > 
> > > It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
> > > 
> > > I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since you do
> > > not
> > > and will never be part of my organization.
> > 
> > Oh cool. Then can I assume the CoC nonsens of your organisation will
> > not be forced on this organisation (or mailinglist or forum or
> > whatever you might call it)? Because it is, then there's an agenda we
> > should talk about in public.
> > 
> > Nik
> 
> 
> 1) 
> https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/72-official-code-of-ethics-and-professional-conduct
> 
> 2) 
> https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
> 
> 3) 
> https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/185-why-choose-selroc-systems

So your forum has 139 postings in total, but several pages CoC. Of course the 
CoC did attract a lot of people to participate, didn't it?

Nik

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Scott Harwell via Emc-users]

 I can live with the new CoC.
 I will try to limit any response to two or three words and end any statement 
with a smiley face emoji (as soon as I find out how to attach one). 
I admit that I am very limited in LinuxCNC knowledge, but I have managed around 
45 years of NC and CNC control and machine knowledge. I also have some Screw 
machine and multi spindle chucker  experience, but most of that is over 50 
years old. I have done machine and system design as well as reliability. 

I joined the group to learn about LinuxCNC, it's capabilities and contribute in 
any way I can.
Scott



On Wednesday, June 30, 2021, 9:33:11 AM CDT, R C  wrote:  
 
 
On 6/30/21 7:58 AM, Mark Wendt wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 9:44 AM Valerio Bellizzomi 
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
>>
>>> We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of having a
>>> code
>>> of conduct for this list.
>>>
>>>  Mark
>> In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems to
>> be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about being
>> controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing for
>> an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
>> bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.
>>
>> Regards
>>
> That's may all be well and good for your organization.  That doesn't mean
> it translates easily or well to other organizations like this one.  This

European countries, mostly  dem/lib with social tendencies/policies have 
a lot of labor protection laws and labor unions that have a lot of 
leverage. Companies, organizations, negotiated CoC-s to push back on 
that leverage.

In the US, a lot of states states being "work at will", they don't need 
them because you can be terminated for no reason, pretty much. But hey, 
it's a cool liberal/socialist thing, so let's do it here too, even if we 
don't need it, it's management porn that blew over from Europe.


Also, what is the point of having rules if you there is no way to 
enforce them?  You can have a CoC here,  and throw someone out if you 
don't like what they have to say. but nothing keeps that user from 
registering with another account.

Besides that, people here just talk/chat, how much leverage/control do 
you actually want to add by writing up a CoC, that you already don't have?


Ron



> group tends to be more oriented to machining, machine control and
> programming.  In all the years I've been on this list, I've never seen
> anyone publicly harass anyone, though I may have missed a post or two over
> those years that did contain something like that.  Pretty much every post I
> see on this list is either someone asking a question or requesting help,
> and a whole lot of people jumping in to try and fix the problem or help the
> OP work their way through the issue.  This group seems to be based on
> giving and receiving help for all the issues and problems that pop up.
>
> Again the original question I asked needs to be answered.  Why is it really
> necessary to institute a Code of Conduct on a group that's already well
> behaved?  Legal Reasons?  Someone feels that we need a CoC just because?
> What is the impetus for having this imposed?  And why does the CoC that's
> been written have to include all the political nonsense?
>
> Mark
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 16:14 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 16:04:47 +0200
>  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> > >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of
> > > > > having a
> > > > > code
> > > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > > > 
> > > > >  Mark
> > > > 
> > > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it
> > > > seems
> > > > to
> > > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned
> > > > about
> > > > being
> > > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary
> > > > thing
> > > > for
> > > > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis 
> > > > of
> > > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.
> > > 
> > > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop it.
> > > CoC
> > > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
> > 
> > It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
> > 
> > I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since you do
> > not
> > and will never be part of my organization.
> 
> Oh cool. Then can I assume the CoC nonsens of your organisation will
> not be forced on this organisation (or mailinglist or forum or
> whatever you might call it)? Because it is, then there's an agenda we
> should talk about in public.
> 
> Nik


1) 
https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/72-official-code-of-ethics-and-professional-conduct

2) 
https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum

3) 
https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/185-why-choose-selroc-systems






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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[R C]

On 6/30/21 7:58 AM, Mark Wendt wrote:

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 9:44 AM Valerio Bellizzomi 
wrote:


On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:


We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of having a
code
of conduct for this list.

  Mark

In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems to
be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about being
controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing for
an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.

Regards


That's may all be well and good for your organization.  That doesn't mean
it translates easily or well to other organizations like this one.  This


European countries, mostly  dem/lib with social tendencies/policies have 
a lot of labor protection laws and labor unions that have a lot of 
leverage. Companies, organizations, negotiated CoC-s to push back on 
that leverage.


In the US, a lot of states states being "work at will", they don't need 
them because you can be terminated for no reason, pretty much. But hey, 
it's a cool liberal/socialist thing, so let's do it here too, even if we 
don't need it, it's management porn that blew over from Europe.



Also, what is the point of having rules if you there is no way to 
enforce them?  You can have a CoC here,  and throw someone out if you 
don't like what they have to say. but nothing keeps that user from 
registering with another account.


Besides that, people here just talk/chat, how much leverage/control do 
you actually want to add by writing up a CoC, that you already don't have?



Ron




group tends to be more oriented to machining, machine control and
programming.  In all the years I've been on this list, I've never seen
anyone publicly harass anyone, though I may have missed a post or two over
those years that did contain something like that.  Pretty much every post I
see on this list is either someone asking a question or requesting help,
and a whole lot of people jumping in to try and fix the problem or help the
OP work their way through the issue.  This group seems to be based on
giving and receiving help for all the issues and problems that pop up.

Again the original question I asked needs to be answered.  Why is it really
necessary to institute a Code of Conduct on a group that's already well
behaved?  Legal Reasons?  Someone feels that we need a CoC just because?
What is the impetus for having this imposed?  And why does the CoC that's
been written have to include all the political nonsense?

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] About the 7i76E and possible DB25 expansion cards

[Feral Engineer]

Then you should have no trouble at all .

I like the wizards, but completely understand where you're coming from with
configuring hal. You can do anything and everything you want with it. On
the flip side, coming from an industry where plc is still king, I love
being able to use classicladder and build circuits that way also. I don't
think CL gets the respect it deserves.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
www.patreon.com/theferalengineer

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 9:55 PM Leonardo Marsaglia 
wrote:

> >
> > I helped a guy set up a 7i95 with encoders. Not hard, but not super
> simple
> > because pncconf doesn't support that board native and the 7i95
> configurator
> > didn't work. I used the ini name setting in pncconf, made a config for a
> > 7i96 and had to change the name of the board in the ini file and rename
> the
> > io pins.
> >
> > I have a two switch home setup on my Emco using a prox switch as an index
> > pulse after hitting a mechanical switch, using home_use_index and I'm
> using
> > home_index_no_encoder_reset in master to home my x and z without having
> > full encoder feedback. I made some videos on my YouTube channel about it.
> >
> > I'm not shying you away from the 7i95, i think it's a great board, but be
> > ready for a little hair pulling unless you're pretty comfortable with the
> > mesa ecosystem.
> >
>
> Well, I'm not new to mesa boards but I'm always using a whole different
> approach on each machine. The first I installed was the 5i25 with a
> breakout board my brother already designed for another project. Then I
> started with the PCIe ones, and now I'm finally going for the ethernet ones
> because saves me a lot of hassle mounting the PC on the cabinet. On the top
> of that, I'm retrofitting a machine every 2 years so every time is like I'm
> re learning all of it again.
>
> One thing I must say, I've never used PNCCONF or STEPCONF. What I always
> loved about LCNC is the way I can model a system with HAL using plain text.
> I'm far away from being a programmer but the way HAL works for me is just
> pure genius. I don't even use the Classicladder feature. For me HAL has it
> all right there, and It never ceases to amaze me.
>
> El sáb, 26 jun 2021 a las 10:17, Feral Engineer (<
> theferalengin...@gmail.com>)
> escribió:
>
> > I helped a guy set up a 7i95 with encoders. Not hard, but not super
> simple
> > because pncconf doesn't support that board native and the 7i95
> configurator
> > didn't work. I used the ini name setting in pncconf, made a config for a
> > 7i96 and had to change the name of the board in the ini file and rename
> the
> > io pins.
> >
> > I have a two switch home setup on my Emco using a prox switch as an index
> > pulse after hitting a mechanical switch, using home_use_index and I'm
> using
> > home_index_no_encoder_reset in master to home my x and z without having
> > full encoder feedback. I made some videos on my YouTube channel about it.
> >
> > I'm not shying you away from the 7i95, i think it's a great board, but be
> > ready for a little hair pulling unless you're pretty comfortable with the
> > mesa ecosystem.
> >
> > That being said, anyone ever use a 7i95 for full closed loop to LinuxCNC
> > using step dir and encoders? I know a lot of guys are using the 7i77 that
> > way with analog and there's the 7i97 that would be fun to check out as
> well
> > for analog setups. Curious if there's any kind of weirdness that happens
> > using step pulse with encoder vs just using analog signal.
> >
> >
> > Phil T.
> > The Feral Engineer
> >
> > Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
> > www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
> >
> > Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
> > www.patreon.com/theferalengineer
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 26, 2021, 8:47 AM Leonardo Marsaglia 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Andrew and Gene and sorry for the late reply. I hope you're doing
> > > great!
> > >
> > > I believe I'll use the 7i84 as Peter suggested to expand the I/Os. But
> > > instead of the 7i76E I'll go with the 7i95 which can read encoders too.
> > > With this I can replicate what I did on the mazak which is to fool the
> > > homing sequence to use the index pulse of the motors on the final
> stage.
> > >
> > > El mar, 22 jun 2021 a las 2:23, Gene Heskett ()
> > > escribió:
> > >
> > > > On Monday 21 June 2021 22:01:25 Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks a lot Peter and Andy,
> > > > >
> > > > > I re read through the manual and found the SSERIAL port connection
> > and
> > > > > the recommendation of using a CAT5 cable cut in half. I missed that
> > > > > part so I was a little confused about how to expand the I/Os. So,
> > I'll
> > > > > be more than ok with this board :)
> > > > >
> > > > Another possibility if you need lots of i/o, is the 7i90HD, which
> has a
> > > > total 

Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Mark Wendt]

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 10:13 AM Valerio Bellizzomi 
wrote:

> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:58 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 9:44 AM Valerio Bellizzomi <
> > vale...@selnet.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > >
> > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of
> > > > having a
> > > > code
> > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > >
> > > >  Mark
> > >
> > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems
> > > to
> > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about
> > > being
> > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing
> > > for
> > > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
> > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> >
> > That's may all be well and good for your organization.  That doesn't
> > mean
> > it translates easily or well to other organizations like this
> > one.  This
> > group tends to be more oriented to machining, machine control and
> > programming.  In all the years I've been on this list, I've never
> > seen
> > anyone publicly harass anyone, though I may have missed a post or two
> > over
> > those years that did contain something like that.  Pretty much every
> > post I
> > see on this list is either someone asking a question or requesting
> > help,
> > and a whole lot of people jumping in to try and fix the problem or
> > help the
> > OP work their way through the issue.  This group seems to be based on
> > giving and receiving help for all the issues and problems that pop
> > up.
> >
> > Again the original question I asked needs to be answered.  Why is it
> > really
> > necessary to institute a Code of Conduct on a group that's already
> > well
> > behaved?  Legal Reasons?  Someone feels that we need a CoC just
> > because?
> > What is the impetus for having this imposed?  And why does the CoC
> > that's
> > been written have to include all the political nonsense?
> >
> > Mark
>
> here in my organization we are committed to software development and
> computational research, this does not exempt us from the necessity of
> codes vis-a-vis of other organizations which have one and the public
> administration which requires organizations to have one.
> You can live without a CoC for a small project, but as the project
> grows and start interacting with many other parties, it becomes
> necessary to be well organized.
>

Well, good for you.  You run your organization the way you want to.  Funny
how this group hasn't needed such a thing in all the years it's existed.

We could have adopted a very simple code of conduct which consists of one
sentence:

" In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as
contributors and leaders pledge to making participation in our project and
our community a harassment-free experience for everyone."

Would that not pretty much say it all?

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Mark Wendt]

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 10:07 AM Valerio Bellizzomi 
wrote:

> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of
> > > > having a
> > > > code
> > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > >
> > > >  Mark
> > >
> > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems
> > > to
> > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about
> > > being
> > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing
> > > for
> > > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
> > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.
> >
> > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop it. CoC
> > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
>
> It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
>
> I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since you do not
> and will never be part of my organization.
>

You're the one commenting on your organization.  I don't really care what
you do with your organization.  This group, however is not run by you.  I
only compared your organization with this one.

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 16:04:47 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of
> > > > having a
> > > > code
> > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > > 
> > > >  Mark
> > > 
> > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems
> > > to
> > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about
> > > being
> > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing
> > > for
> > > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
> > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.
> > 
> > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop it. CoC
> > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
> 
> It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
> 
> I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since you do not
> and will never be part of my organization.

Oh cool. Then can I assume the CoC nonsens of your organisation will not be 
forced on this organisation (or mailinglist or forum or whatever you might call 
it)? Because it is, then there's an agenda we should talk about in public.

Nik



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:58 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 9:44 AM Valerio Bellizzomi <
> vale...@selnet.org>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > 
> > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of
> > > having a
> > > code
> > > of conduct for this list.
> > > 
> > >  Mark
> > 
> > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems
> > to
> > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about
> > being
> > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing
> > for
> > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
> > bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> 
> That's may all be well and good for your organization.  That doesn't
> mean
> it translates easily or well to other organizations like this
> one.  This
> group tends to be more oriented to machining, machine control and
> programming.  In all the years I've been on this list, I've never
> seen
> anyone publicly harass anyone, though I may have missed a post or two
> over
> those years that did contain something like that.  Pretty much every
> post I
> see on this list is either someone asking a question or requesting
> help,
> and a whole lot of people jumping in to try and fix the problem or
> help the
> OP work their way through the issue.  This group seems to be based on
> giving and receiving help for all the issues and problems that pop
> up.
> 
> Again the original question I asked needs to be answered.  Why is it
> really
> necessary to institute a Code of Conduct on a group that's already
> well
> behaved?  Legal Reasons?  Someone feels that we need a CoC just
> because?
> What is the impetus for having this imposed?  And why does the CoC
> that's
> been written have to include all the political nonsense?
> 
> Mark

here in my organization we are committed to software development and
computational research, this does not exempt us from the necessity of
codes vis-a-vis of other organizations which have one and the public
administration which requires organizations to have one.
You can live without a CoC for a small project, but as the project
grows and start interacting with many other parties, it becomes
necessary to be well organized.




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
>  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of
> > > having a
> > > code
> > > of conduct for this list.
> > > 
> > >  Mark
> > 
> > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems
> > to
> > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about
> > being
> > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing
> > for
> > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
> > bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.
> 
> If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop it. CoC
> either has an agenda or it is better droped.

It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.

I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since you do not
and will never be part of my organization.





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Peter Hodgson]

Agreed!

Don’t let the differences of a few over something that is almost certainly 
going to be less significant than they fear, spoil the good work, camaraderie 
and international community that’s been built up over many years by people with 
no other agenda than to support each other with their knowledge in pursuit of 
what they enjoy.

Block & ignore.

Pete 

> On 30 Jun 2021, at 14:04, Les Newell  wrote:
> 
> Don't go. This is a ridiculous storm in a teacup that has triggered a few 
> very vocal people. It will blow over. Block the thread and ignore it.
> 
> Les
> 
>> On 30/06/2021 13:47, Chad Woitas wrote:
>> Little saddened at the backlash to this. Its a generic CoC, that many open 
>> source projects use. It's not much different than a generic GPL open-source 
>> projects use.
>> 
>> Engineers and Blue collar have a bad enough reputation for being not so nice 
>> to outsiders. The backlash to this definitely reinforces this.
>> 
>> I might still make the odd pull request but this mailing list, I'm out.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Mark Wendt]

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 9:44 AM Valerio Bellizzomi 
wrote:

> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
>
> > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of having a
> > code
> > of conduct for this list.
> >
> >  Mark
>
> In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems to
> be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about being
> controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing for
> an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
> bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.
>
> Regards
>

That's may all be well and good for your organization.  That doesn't mean
it translates easily or well to other organizations like this one.  This
group tends to be more oriented to machining, machine control and
programming.  In all the years I've been on this list, I've never seen
anyone publicly harass anyone, though I may have missed a post or two over
those years that did contain something like that.  Pretty much every post I
see on this list is either someone asking a question or requesting help,
and a whole lot of people jumping in to try and fix the problem or help the
OP work their way through the issue.  This group seems to be based on
giving and receiving help for all the issues and problems that pop up.

Again the original question I asked needs to be answered.  Why is it really
necessary to institute a Code of Conduct on a group that's already well
behaved?  Legal Reasons?  Someone feels that we need a CoC just because?
What is the impetus for having this imposed?  And why does the CoC that's
been written have to include all the political nonsense?

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of having a
> > code
> > of conduct for this list.
> > 
> >  Mark
> 
> In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems to
> be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about being
> controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing for
> an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
> bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.

If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop it. CoC either has 
an agenda or it is better droped.

Nik

> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 9:26 AM Jeff Epler 
> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 03:28:11PM -0700, David Bagby wrote:
> > > As far as I know, a CoC for LinuxCNC was NOT "created, reviewed
> > > and
> > accepted
> > > by community members".  It was just simply announced as a fait
> > > accomli.
> > > 
> > > Thus it should not be a surprise that there is was no consensus
> > > re its
> > > contents within the community, or that there appears to be little
> > > to zero
> > > by-in from the members of the community.  It's natural for people
> > > see
> > > question anything that suddenly get imposed on them.
> > 
> > It's 100% accurate that there I did not initiate discussion on this
> > mailing lists of the code of conduct itself.
> > 
> > I did initiate discussion in these ways:
> > 
> >  - Publicly by creating a Pull Request on github with the full
> > proposed
> > text
> >https://github.com/LinuxCNC/wlo/pull/14
> > 
> >  - Publicly on the IRC channel #emc-developers by linking to the
> > pull
> > request
> > 
> >  - Privately with several of the people who act as moderators of
> > our
> >various ways of communicating, such as IRC and Matrix
> > 
> > No public comment was made on the pull request, which was open for
> > about
> > a week.  The reaction on IRC ranged from agreement to disinterest.
> > 
> > Several community members articulated in this thread why the item
> > against "excessive helping" was undesirable. That item has been
> > removed.
> > Thank you to those who participated in that portion of this
> > discussion.
> > 
> > Jeff
> > 
> 
> We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of having a
> code
> of conduct for this list.
> 
>  Mark

In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems to
be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about being
controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing for
an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.

Regards




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 08:23 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 03:28:11PM -0700, David Bagby wrote:
> > As far as I know, a CoC for LinuxCNC was NOT "created, reviewed and
> > accepted
> > by community members".  It was just simply announced as a fait
> > accomli.
> > 
> > Thus it should not be a surprise that there is was no consensus re
> > its
> > contents within the community, or that there appears to be little
> > to zero
> > by-in from the members of the community.  It's natural for people
> > see
> > question anything that suddenly get imposed on them.
> 
> It's 100% accurate that there I did not initiate discussion on this
> mailing lists of the code of conduct itself.
> 
> I did initiate discussion in these ways:
> 
>  - Publicly by creating a Pull Request on github with the full
> proposed text
>https://github.com/LinuxCNC/wlo/pull/14
> 
>  - Publicly on the IRC channel #emc-developers by linking to the pull
> request

If I can make a couple of points, missing is the emc-users channel, and
most people like me isn't constantly watching channels and pull
requests, so the CoC was a surprise to me, a welcome one but still a
surprise.


>  - Privately with several of the people who act as moderators of our
>various ways of communicating, such as IRC and Matrix
> 
> No public comment was made on the pull request, which was open for
> about
> a week.  The reaction on IRC ranged from agreement to disinterest.
> 
> Several community members articulated in this thread why the item
> against "excessive helping" was undesirable. That item has been
> removed.
> Thank you to those who participated in that portion of this
> discussion.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 08:23:49 -0500
 Jeff Epler scripsit:
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 03:28:11PM -0700, David Bagby wrote:
> > As far as I know, a CoC for LinuxCNC was NOT "created, reviewed and accepted
> > by community members".  It was just simply announced as a fait accomli.
> > 
> > Thus it should not be a surprise that there is was no consensus re its
> > contents within the community, or that there appears to be little to zero
> > by-in from the members of the community.  It's natural for people see
> > question anything that suddenly get imposed on them.
> 
> It's 100% accurate that there I did not initiate discussion on this
> mailing lists of the code of conduct itself.
> 
> I did initiate discussion in these ways:
> 
>  - Publicly by creating a Pull Request on github with the full proposed text
>https://github.com/LinuxCNC/wlo/pull/14
> 
>  - Publicly on the IRC channel #emc-developers by linking to the pull request
> 
>  - Privately with several of the people who act as moderators of our
>various ways of communicating, such as IRC and Matrix
> 
> No public comment was made on the pull request, which was open for about
> a week.  The reaction on IRC ranged from agreement to disinterest.
> 
> Several community members articulated in this thread why the item
> against "excessive helping" was undesirable. That item has been removed.
> Thank you to those who participated in that portion of this discussion.

Putting a political tentacle somewhere in a technical code repository is the 
correct way to handle this, for sure.

Nik

> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Mark Wendt]

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 9:26 AM Jeff Epler  wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 03:28:11PM -0700, David Bagby wrote:
> > As far as I know, a CoC for LinuxCNC was NOT "created, reviewed and
> accepted
> > by community members".  It was just simply announced as a fait accomli.
> >
> > Thus it should not be a surprise that there is was no consensus re its
> > contents within the community, or that there appears to be little to zero
> > by-in from the members of the community.  It's natural for people see
> > question anything that suddenly get imposed on them.
>
> It's 100% accurate that there I did not initiate discussion on this
> mailing lists of the code of conduct itself.
>
> I did initiate discussion in these ways:
>
>  - Publicly by creating a Pull Request on github with the full proposed
> text
>https://github.com/LinuxCNC/wlo/pull/14
>
>  - Publicly on the IRC channel #emc-developers by linking to the pull
> request
>
>  - Privately with several of the people who act as moderators of our
>various ways of communicating, such as IRC and Matrix
>
> No public comment was made on the pull request, which was open for about
> a week.  The reaction on IRC ranged from agreement to disinterest.
>
> Several community members articulated in this thread why the item
> against "excessive helping" was undesirable. That item has been removed.
> Thank you to those who participated in that portion of this discussion.
>
> Jeff
>

We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of having a code
of conduct for this list.

 Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Jeff Epler]

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 03:28:11PM -0700, David Bagby wrote:
> As far as I know, a CoC for LinuxCNC was NOT "created, reviewed and accepted
> by community members".  It was just simply announced as a fait accomli.
> 
> Thus it should not be a surprise that there is was no consensus re its
> contents within the community, or that there appears to be little to zero
> by-in from the members of the community.  It's natural for people see
> question anything that suddenly get imposed on them.

It's 100% accurate that there I did not initiate discussion on this
mailing lists of the code of conduct itself.

I did initiate discussion in these ways:

 - Publicly by creating a Pull Request on github with the full proposed text
   https://github.com/LinuxCNC/wlo/pull/14

 - Publicly on the IRC channel #emc-developers by linking to the pull request

 - Privately with several of the people who act as moderators of our
   various ways of communicating, such as IRC and Matrix

No public comment was made on the pull request, which was open for about
a week.  The reaction on IRC ranged from agreement to disinterest.

Several community members articulated in this thread why the item
against "excessive helping" was undesirable. That item has been removed.
Thank you to those who participated in that portion of this discussion.

Jeff


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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Les Newell]

Don't go. This is a ridiculous storm in a teacup that has triggered a 
few very vocal people. It will blow over. Block the thread and ignore it.


Les

On 30/06/2021 13:47, Chad Woitas wrote:

Little saddened at the backlash to this. Its a generic CoC, that many open 
source projects use. It's not much different than a generic GPL open-source 
projects use.

Engineers and Blue collar have a bad enough reputation for being not so nice to 
outsiders. The backlash to this definitely reinforces this.

I might still make the odd pull request but this mailing list, I'm out.





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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Chad Woitas]

Little saddened at the backlash to this. Its a generic CoC, that many open 
source projects use. It's not much different than a generic GPL open-source 
projects use.

Engineers and Blue collar have a bad enough reputation for being not so nice to 
outsiders. The backlash to this definitely reinforces this.

I might still make the odd pull request but this mailing list, I'm out.



From: Mark Wendt 
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2021, 6:42 a.m.
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 8:24 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 13:01, Mark Wendt  wrote:
>
> > being born where liberty
> > and freedom is guaranteed by my Constitution,
>
> As an aside, it seems to me that a written CoC should find more
> support in the USA, which is very proud of its Constitution.
> Whereas in the UK we have managed fine all this time just bumbling
> along without a constitution, so might be naturally inclined to be
> averse to a CoC.
>
> (Actually I _am_ naturally averse to a written CoC, but not enough to
> argue the point if others think that we need one)
>
> --
> atp
>

Andy,

It all depends on how that Constitution is forged.  Ours was beat to death
in Philadelphia before there was enough agreement from all involved, then
it was sent on to the States for ratification.  The States didn't all agree
and that's what got the Bill of Rights added to it.

It wasn't a document that was written and forced on an unwilling population
with no representation.  That's probably the biggest difference between the
USA's Constitution and many others in the world.

The CoC probably would have better accepted if our input had been taken
before it was dumped on us.

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Mark Wendt]

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 8:24 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 13:01, Mark Wendt  wrote:
>
> > being born where liberty
> > and freedom is guaranteed by my Constitution,
>
> As an aside, it seems to me that a written CoC should find more
> support in the USA, which is very proud of its Constitution.
> Whereas in the UK we have managed fine all this time just bumbling
> along without a constitution, so might be naturally inclined to be
> averse to a CoC.
>
> (Actually I _am_ naturally averse to a written CoC, but not enough to
> argue the point if others think that we need one)
>
> --
> atp
>

Andy,

It all depends on how that Constitution is forged.  Ours was beat to death
in Philadelphia before there was enough agreement from all involved, then
it was sent on to the States for ratification.  The States didn't all agree
and that's what got the Bill of Rights added to it.

It wasn't a document that was written and forced on an unwilling population
with no representation.  That's probably the biggest difference between the
USA's Constitution and many others in the world.

The CoC probably would have better accepted if our input had been taken
before it was dumped on us.

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 13:01, Mark Wendt  wrote:

> being born where liberty
> and freedom is guaranteed by my Constitution,

As an aside, it seems to me that a written CoC should find more
support in the USA, which is very proud of its Constitution.
Whereas in the UK we have managed fine all this time just bumbling
along without a constitution, so might be naturally inclined to be
averse to a CoC.

(Actually I _am_ naturally averse to a written CoC, but not enough to
argue the point if others think that we need one)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 12:31:54 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 11:21 +0100, Les Newell wrote:
> > > And that's the key point Les.  There was no prior discussion.  As
> > > was 
> > > pointed out in another post, this CoC was created and implemented
> > > with 
> > > no input from the group at large. 
> > 
> > Um, I don't know if you noticed but we are having that discussion
> > right 
> > now. The CoC is not set in stone. It's just text that can be easily 
> > edited.  Jeff introduced it. At that point there should have been
> > some 
> > rational discussion and any corrections made as needed. Instead
> > there 
> > was a completely unwarranted explosion of vitriol and paranoia. Jeff
> > the 
> > dictator is impinging on our FREEDOM! The CoC boils down to 'be nice
> > and 
> > treat people with respect'. Really, you are upset because you don't
> > want 
> > to be nice and others to be respectful to you? Even if you are,
> > what's 
> > wrong with just asking for a change to the text instead of shouting 
> > about THE ESTABLISHMENT trying to CONTROL you. This are just a group
> > of 
> > like minded individuals, not some oppressive government.
> > 
> > Could Jeff have worded his announcement better? In hindsight yes but 
> > remember the only way anything gets done around here is if someone 
> > volunteers to do it. How many of the people here screaming about
> > their 
> > rights have actually bothered to contribute to maintenance of the
> > source 
> > code and the website? If you don't like something how about fixing
> > it, 
> > rather than getting upset?
> > 
> > Les
> 
> 
> This is talking! this is constructive discussion, thank you, I
> appreciate the good will to discuss and overcome prejudices, thinking
> that there is "the establishment trying to control you" sounds a good
> bit like conspiracy theory.
> 

Tell me what's constructive about that? Somebody (minority) want to implement 
CoC for everybody, everybody else (majority) don't care or fight it. Your 
"constructive" aproach is: force CoC anyway, how diminishing it might be, but 
force it on everyone. Later "we" can change CoC to fit our needs. 

And you are really surprised that this discussion is becomming a bit tense?

Nik



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Mark Wendt]

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 6:24 AM Les Newell 
wrote:

> > And that's the key point Les.  There was no prior discussion.  As was
> > pointed out in another post, this CoC was created and implemented with
> > no input from the group at large.
>
>
> Um, I don't know if you noticed but we are having that discussion right
> now. The CoC is not set in stone. It's just text that can be easily
> edited.  Jeff introduced it. At that point there should have been some
> rational discussion and any corrections made as needed. Instead there
> was a completely unwarranted explosion of vitriol and paranoia. Jeff the
> dictator is impinging on our FREEDOM! The CoC boils down to 'be nice and
> treat people with respect'. Really, you are upset because you don't want
> to be nice and others to be respectful to you? Even if you are, what's
> wrong with just asking for a change to the text instead of shouting
> about THE ESTABLISHMENT trying to CONTROL you. This are just a group of
> like minded individuals, not some oppressive government.
>
> Could Jeff have worded his announcement better? In hindsight yes but
> remember the only way anything gets done around here is if someone
> volunteers to do it. How many of the people here screaming about their
> rights have actually bothered to contribute to maintenance of the source
> code and the website? If you don't like something how about fixing it,
> rather than getting upset?
>
> Les
>

Les,

How about we look at the original announcement.  Thanks to the archives,
it's easy to find.  Here it is in it's entirety"

" The LinuxCNC community including this mailing list now has a written

code of conduct. Unless it's your idea of fun to harass other people,
this is a big non-event for you.

You can read the code of conduct here:https://www.linuxcnc.org/CODE_OF_CONDUCT/

Jeff"

Notice the wording in the first sentence.  "...this mailing list now
has a written code of conduct."  Sounds like a fait accompli to me.
There's no wiggle room for discussion there.  It's in place and will
supposedly be enforced.  Note the sarcasm in the second sentence.  Not
the type of post that someone is suggesting we use this CoC or maybe
modify it through discussion.

Have we heard back from Jeff after the initial post?  Have any of the
suggestions to modify the thing been implemented or acknowledged?  It
is a form of control, whether you admit to it or not. There has been
no justification or reason why this thing has to be implemented in the
first place.  This list has been around for a pretty long time and
somehow we've managed to get along with pretty much everyone on the
list and we've all learned from each other.

I go back to my original premise.  Unless there's some reason, which
has yet to be given to this group for this radical departure from what
we have, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  No need for hyperbole, I
wasn't calling anyone a dictator, and yeah, being born where liberty
and freedom is guaranteed by my Constitution, I do like my liberty to
think the way I like.  I have asked for changes to the text.  And not
shouted them, but no reply.

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Advice on Tuning Servo System

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 30 June 2021 06:30:30 Les Newell wrote:

> On a trivkins machine I don't think it matters much. In coordinated
> mode the lowest speed/acceleration for a given axis will win. In joint
> mode (mainly jogging while unhomed) the joint's speed + acceleration
> are used.
>
> If you are using soft limits it pays to have to have the axis limits
> slightly before the joint limits. If you are about hit an axis limit
> the axis will decelerate to a stop. If you hit a joint limit the joint
> stops without any deceleration.
>
This is good to know Les, thank you. But for those who don't know how to 
achieve that, a 1 axis example would be a huge help.

In making a servo for axis A/B/C in a stepper machine, there is a huge 
differential in how it runs unhomed, and how it runs after homed. Being 
a full rotation device, it has no limits set.

> Les
>
> On 30/06/2021 11:09, Matthew Herd wrote:
> > A second question.  For velocity mode operation between LinuxCNC and
> > the USC board, do I need to add headroom to any speeds or
> > accelerations?  Right now I have the TRAJ section max speeds &
> > accelerations set higher than the max speeds & accelerations on the
> > joints and axes (which are set to be the same, since it’s a trivkins
> > machine).  Or should I be setting all max speeds and accelerations
> > to the same numbers (excepting if joint 2/Z might be set lower)?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Matt
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 30 June 2021 06:21:01 Les Newell wrote:
[...]
> Could Jeff have worded his announcement better? In hindsight yes but
> remember the only way anything gets done around here is if someone
> volunteers to do it. How many of the people here screaming about their
> rights have actually bothered to contribute to maintenance of the
> source code and the website? If you don't like something how about
> fixing it, rather than getting upset?
>
> Les
>
Since so many have fussed over the arbitrary imposition of a CoC, I may 
as well bare my one beef.

When volunteers do offer help, monetarily or hardware wise, in this case 
I offered both money and|or a pi to be used in the buildbot when the 
stability of what was being used to generate armhf versions of linuxcnc 
meant it was crashed a goodly percentage of the time.

I made such an offer along those lines twice, and it wasn't even 
acknowledged either time, let alone discussed. I took that as an NIH 
response and dropped it.

Since this truly is an all volunteer thing I was somewhat disappointed by 
the lack of response to my offers, but I didn't go off in a huff, I just 
built my own buildbot out of the pi.

But a pi3 it must be admitted was a little slow taking about 8 to 12 
hours to build master.  The 2 gig pi4 with its usb3 interface for 
adapters to SSD's shaves that down to around an hour. Both of them need 
active cooling and 5 amp supplies to get power failure to power failure 
uptimes.

That lack of any kind of response disappointed me a bit, and I still 
blame it on an NIH attitude, but I've been known to be the upstart 
troublemaker since 1946. Maybe I didn't use the correct language? IDK.

If we are to have a CoC, the NIH attitude should be addressed in it.

Now back to lurking, and helping where I can. Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 11:21 +0100, Les Newell wrote:
> > And that's the key point Les.  There was no prior discussion.  As
> > was 
> > pointed out in another post, this CoC was created and implemented
> > with 
> > no input from the group at large. 
> 
> Um, I don't know if you noticed but we are having that discussion
> right 
> now. The CoC is not set in stone. It's just text that can be easily 
> edited.  Jeff introduced it. At that point there should have been
> some 
> rational discussion and any corrections made as needed. Instead
> there 
> was a completely unwarranted explosion of vitriol and paranoia. Jeff
> the 
> dictator is impinging on our FREEDOM! The CoC boils down to 'be nice
> and 
> treat people with respect'. Really, you are upset because you don't
> want 
> to be nice and others to be respectful to you? Even if you are,
> what's 
> wrong with just asking for a change to the text instead of shouting 
> about THE ESTABLISHMENT trying to CONTROL you. This are just a group
> of 
> like minded individuals, not some oppressive government.
> 
> Could Jeff have worded his announcement better? In hindsight yes but 
> remember the only way anything gets done around here is if someone 
> volunteers to do it. How many of the people here screaming about
> their 
> rights have actually bothered to contribute to maintenance of the
> source 
> code and the website? If you don't like something how about fixing
> it, 
> rather than getting upset?
> 
> Les


This is talking! this is constructive discussion, thank you, I
appreciate the good will to discuss and overcome prejudices, thinking
that there is "the establishment trying to control you" sounds a good
bit like conspiracy theory.





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Re: [Emc-users] Advice on Tuning Servo System

[Les Newell]

On a trivkins machine I don't think it matters much. In coordinated mode 
the lowest speed/acceleration for a given axis will win. In joint mode 
(mainly jogging while unhomed) the joint's speed + acceleration are used.


If you are using soft limits it pays to have to have the axis limits 
slightly before the joint limits. If you are about hit an axis limit the 
axis will decelerate to a stop. If you hit a joint limit the joint stops 
without any deceleration.


Les

On 30/06/2021 11:09, Matthew Herd wrote:

A second question.  For velocity mode operation between LinuxCNC and the USC board, do 
I need to add headroom to any speeds or accelerations?  Right now I have the TRAJ 
section max speeds & accelerations set higher than the max speeds & 
accelerations on the joints and axes (which are set to be the same, since it’s a 
trivkins machine).  Or should I be setting all max speeds and accelerations to the same 
numbers (excepting if joint 2/Z might be set lower)?

Thanks!
Matt




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Les Newell]

And that's the key point Les.  There was no prior discussion.  As was 
pointed out in another post, this CoC was created and implemented with 
no input from the group at large. 



Um, I don't know if you noticed but we are having that discussion right 
now. The CoC is not set in stone. It's just text that can be easily 
edited.  Jeff introduced it. At that point there should have been some 
rational discussion and any corrections made as needed. Instead there 
was a completely unwarranted explosion of vitriol and paranoia. Jeff the 
dictator is impinging on our FREEDOM! The CoC boils down to 'be nice and 
treat people with respect'. Really, you are upset because you don't want 
to be nice and others to be respectful to you? Even if you are, what's 
wrong with just asking for a change to the text instead of shouting 
about THE ESTABLISHMENT trying to CONTROL you. This are just a group of 
like minded individuals, not some oppressive government.


Could Jeff have worded his announcement better? In hindsight yes but 
remember the only way anything gets done around here is if someone 
volunteers to do it. How many of the people here screaming about their 
rights have actually bothered to contribute to maintenance of the source 
code and the website? If you don't like something how about fixing it, 
rather than getting upset?


Les



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Re: [Emc-users] Advice on Tuning Servo System

[Matthew Herd]

Ahh, thanks Les.  I like the simulated encoder option.  The best part is it’s 
as easy as flipping a switch.  Unfortunately wiring up the drive is a bit more 
of an ordeal, although I do have a bunch of steppers and drives as they were 
what was replaced.  If I get desperate I’ll go that route.  I’d rather try to 
use my oscilloscope to take a look at the pulse train if necessary.  I hope to 
be able to test this tomorrow night.

A second question.  For velocity mode operation between LinuxCNC and the USC 
board, do I need to add headroom to any speeds or accelerations?  Right now I 
have the TRAJ section max speeds & accelerations set higher than the max speeds 
& accelerations on the joints and axes (which are set to be the same, since 
it’s a trivkins machine).  Or should I be setting all max speeds and 
accelerations to the same numbers (excepting if joint 2/Z might be set lower)?

Thanks!
Matt

> On Jun 30, 2021, at 5:40 AM, Les Newell  wrote:
> 
> John, Matt isn't using a stepgen. The Pico USC board uses it's own step 
> generator. Stepgen expects a position command. As far as I can tell from the 
> USC docs the USC step generator expects a velocity command, hence the need 
> for a PID loop.
> 
> Matt, Do you happen to have a spare stepper and drive kicking about? If so 
> I'd suggest temporarily hooking it up to one axis. That at least would let 
> you figure out if the step outputs are doing what you expect.
> 
> I see the USC has an option to simulate an encoder instead of using the 
> physical encoder. Try this mode with the PID parameters in the Pico systems 
> example hal files.
> 
> Les
> 
> 
> On 30/06/2021 05:32, John Dammeyer wrote:
>> 
>> That didn't work for me.  I think it was Andy that clued me in that I had to 
>> have P=0 and FF1=0 to disable the PID part of the LCNC.  Since the servo 
>> drive does it anyway and the acceleration (speed that step pulses change) is 
>> defined by the INI file.
>> 
>> These are from my Spindle.
>> 
>> MAX_VELOCITY = 50.0
>> MAX_ACCELERATION = 300.0
>> # The values below should be 25% larger than MAX_VELOCITY and 
>> MAX_ACCELERATION
>> # If using BACKLASH compensation STEPGEN_MAXACCEL should be 100% larger.
>> STEPGEN_MAXVEL = 62.5
>> STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 375.0
>> 
>> What type of drive is it and can you set the parameters easily?
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Advice on Tuning Servo System

[Les Newell]

John, Matt isn't using a stepgen. The Pico USC board uses it's own step 
generator. Stepgen expects a position command. As far as I can tell from 
the USC docs the USC step generator expects a velocity command, hence 
the need for a PID loop.


Matt, Do you happen to have a spare stepper and drive kicking about? If 
so I'd suggest temporarily hooking it up to one axis. That at least 
would let you figure out if the step outputs are doing what you expect.


I see the USC has an option to simulate an encoder instead of using the 
physical encoder. Try this mode with the PID parameters in the Pico 
systems example hal files.


Les


On 30/06/2021 05:32, John Dammeyer wrote:


That didn't work for me.  I think it was Andy that clued me in that I had to 
have P=0 and FF1=0 to disable the PID part of the LCNC.  Since the servo drive 
does it anyway and the acceleration (speed that step pulses change) is defined 
by the INI file.

These are from my Spindle.

MAX_VELOCITY = 50.0
MAX_ACCELERATION = 300.0
# The values below should be 25% larger than MAX_VELOCITY and MAX_ACCELERATION
# If using BACKLASH compensation STEPGEN_MAXACCEL should be 100% larger.
STEPGEN_MAXVEL = 62.5
STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 375.0

What type of drive is it and can you set the parameters easily?

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 05:01:18 -0400
 Mark scripsit:
> 
> On 6/29/21 4:57 PM, Les Newell wrote:
> > Valerio, I agree completely. I also think we should give Jeff a break 
> > here. LinuxCNC is a loosely organized group and things only really get 
> > done when someone sees a problem and tries to fix it. Many open source 
> > projects have a CoC so Jeff put something together, trying to help. He 
> > now pretty much gets accused of being a dictator.  I'm sure that is 
> > far from his intention.
> >
> >> The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
> >> voting of the CoC.
> >
> > Historically when someone comes up with a new feature they announce it 
> > on the list, there is a bit of discussion about it and in most cases 
> > it gets added to the source, possibly with some modification. No name 
> > calling or political posturing. That is probably closer to how Jeff 
> > expected this to go.
> >
> > Les
> 
> 
> And that's the key point Les.  There was no prior discussion.  As was 
> pointed out in another post, this CoC was created and implemented with 
> no input from the group at large.
> 

That's how things with CoC always go: some self-proclaimed policemen force it 
on everybody else and are upset when they face resistance. Usual argument is 
"that's exactly why we need XYZ". Same game everywhere.

Nik

> Mark
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Mark]

On 6/29/21 4:57 PM, Les Newell wrote:
Valerio, I agree completely. I also think we should give Jeff a break 
here. LinuxCNC is a loosely organized group and things only really get 
done when someone sees a problem and tries to fix it. Many open source 
projects have a CoC so Jeff put something together, trying to help. He 
now pretty much gets accused of being a dictator.  I'm sure that is 
far from his intention.



The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
voting of the CoC.


Historically when someone comes up with a new feature they announce it 
on the list, there is a bit of discussion about it and in most cases 
it gets added to the source, possibly with some modification. No name 
calling or political posturing. That is probably closer to how Jeff 
expected this to go.


Les



And that's the key point Les.  There was no prior discussion.  As was 
pointed out in another post, this CoC was created and implemented with 
no input from the group at large.


Mark



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Re: [Emc-users] Mounting spindle sensors.

[John Dammeyer]

> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 08:54, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > I couild buy a couple of bolts but might spend more time and fuel looking 
> > for a couple to buy than using free cast-off bits in the
> junk pail.
> 
> That does leave the (more work) option of making special bolts with
> stud heads. I see them occasionally used in cars.
> https://www.factoryoemparts.com/gm-engine-mount-stud-bolt-flange-double-head-m8x125x20+m10x15x30-new-11561121-
> 11561121
> In fact, that looks like it might do the job.

Well the hole is already drilled and tapped in one of them.  Might as well 
continue with that.  

More pictures as the work progresses.
John




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Re: [Emc-users] Mounting spindle sensors.

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 08:54, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> I couild buy a couple of bolts but might spend more time and fuel looking for 
> a couple to buy than using free cast-off bits in the junk pail.

That does leave the (more work) option of making special bolts with
stud heads. I see them occasionally used in cars.
https://www.factoryoemparts.com/gm-engine-mount-stud-bolt-flange-double-head-m8x125x20+m10x15x30-new-11561121-11561121
In fact, that looks like it might do the job.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Mounting spindle sensors.

[John Dammeyer]

> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 00:57, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > Well, sure enough...
> 
> Another advantage of tapping the bolt and not the casting
> 
> 
> --
> atp

Of course the mill was apart in more than one place when this happened but I've 
already drilled and tapped (even with bottom tap) a piece of 7/8" scrap I had 
lying around.  (green paint on the end apparently identifies the material).  
Anyway turned nicely, drilled and tapped 10-24 nicely..  Once the mill is back 
together the spin index is set up ready to for me to cut a 16mm hex head.  Then 
back to the lathe to reduce and thread 10x1.5mm.  

Beats using the metalonium used to make the bolts that came with the mill.

I couild buy a couple of bolts but might spend more time and fuel looking for a 
couple to buy than using free cast-off bits in the junk pail.

John





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Re: [Emc-users] Mounting spindle sensors.

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 00:57, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Well, sure enough...

Another advantage of tapping the bolt and not the casting


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Mounting spindle sensors.

[Cristian Bontas]

The angle iron would only provide a base for mounting the sensors. The 
vertical part could be used for cable clamps, so that the cables are 
directed down (relative to the position in the picture), not radially.


The sensors would be positioned in an arc, of course, not aligned to the 
straight edge.


Since you already have the CNC mill working, making the arc/crescent 
shape (your original design) out of say 2 mm sheet metal would not be a 
problem.


But I would not bother welding the parts, I don't see any benefit to that.

As for ease of positioning the thing, I'd make the inner edge of the 
metal say 1 mm larger radius than the wheel. At assembly I'd use a piece 
of 1 mm thick flexible plastic (with slots for the sensors if needed) 
between them, keep it pressed, tighten the bolts. Any play (in the ends, 
around the bolts) would arrange in an angular offset, which is irrelevant.


On 6/30/2021 09:56, John Dammeyer wrote:

From: Cristian Bontas [mailto:cristianbonta...@gmail.com]
Hi

I'd go for something similar to the picture, but simpler.

Make the two cylinders and use a piece of angle iron for the sensor support.

Two holes for the bolts to go through. Offset so that the side of the
angle that is parallel to the shaft (and the bolts) clears the outside
of the round casting. Grind/cut from the middle of the other side of the
iron to clear said casting. Or make the cylinders the right height so
that the side of the angle iron fits between the flange (on top of the
casting) and the disc.

On 6/30/2021 00:31, John Dammeyer wrote:

I often have trouble coming up with simple solutions.


Thanks Christian,
Making the two cylinders is pretty easy.  The only problem with the straight 
angle is that the sensors have to be mounted in an arc around the disk.  Since 
I have the CNC mill,  cutting out the top section with the right profile 
wouldn't be hard.  I also have a 3:1 shear/brake/roller and a heavier duty ring 
roller so I could in effect make my own angle iron but curved after the bending 
and welding.

In fact a friend suggested I model the whole thing with the 3D printer.  The 
attached photo is what I did for my Gingery Lathe but time constraints mean 
it's still at that point where the BeagleBone, Machinekit and the Xylotex Cape 
are back in the kennel.   As yet haven't had a chance to get to the point where 
it's all working.

  John



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Re: [Emc-users] Mounting spindle sensors.

[Cristian Bontas]

Hi

I'd go for something similar to the picture, but simpler.

Make the two cylinders and use a piece of angle iron for the sensor support.

Two holes for the bolts to go through. Offset so that the side of the 
angle that is parallel to the shaft (and the bolts) clears the outside 
of the round casting. Grind/cut from the middle of the other side of the 
iron to clear said casting. Or make the cylinders the right height so 
that the side of the angle iron fits between the flange (on top of the 
casting) and the disc.


On 6/30/2021 00:31, John Dammeyer wrote:

I often have trouble coming up with simple solutions.
  
Attached the photo of my encoder disk made from aluminium so slotted or reflective sensors would be required.  My first idea of a clamp around the casting to hold the sensors really didn't work out.
  
The bolts holding the upper casting down are 10x1.5-35mm bolts and there's a flat machined area in the casting for the lock washer and bolt head.  It's really hard to determine exactly what the bolt circle is but a guess of 120mm between bolts creates roughly 84.8 radius circle.
  
What if I turned out two spacers? Clamped them in place and then welded a bracket to them.  Or even just a curved piece with much larger holes clamped down to allow some tweaking for fit.  Then maybe spot weld in place with final welding off the machine.
  
Then on this plate mounted the sensors.
  
Good idea?  Or also doomed to failure?
  

  
Thanks

John Dammeyer
  
  
"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"

Automation Artisans Inc.
www dot autoartisans dot com
  




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