Re: [Emc-users] Tool setter location and workflow.

[John Dammeyer]

> 
> I'm just checking to get recommendations on tool setter placement and
> workflow.
> 
> Thanks, Billy - aka Connor
> 

Where to put the tool setter is likely where it's easiest for an operator to 
also access the tool.  

I don't know if the CNC router falls into an operation like changing a drill 
bit.  For most operations one just sets up the tools, tool table for those 
tools with the lengths in the tool table.  But if you have only one drill chuck 
but need to drill different size holes then the way to use Tool #6 (the drill 
chuck) is to set the length to 0.  The tool change software then just uses the 
tool table length to set the offset and the tools are used without ever 
touching off. 

But with Tool #6 the 1/4" and then 3/8" drill bit are different lengths.  So 
you might do a tool change to install the chuck and then pause over the tool 
setter.  An operator then puts in the right size drill bit and the system 
continues to then touch off that drill bit but doesn't update the tool table 
length;  that stays at 0.  The holes are drilled and then rinse and repeat for 
additional drill bits.

Anyway, that’s one scenario.
John



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Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral

[John Dammeyer]

Here's the G-Code he used for that photo.  You can see he's doing 1mm passes
turning the rotary table 3 turns.  His mechanics are such that it cuts air
at the start and at the end of the spiral.
The question I asked him which relates back to my own system is what does
F300 indicate?  X at 300 mm/min or the rotary table at 300 degrees per
minute.   Or is it both?  Ie.  F300 for the rotary axis is 300 degrees per
minute while the X axis is 300 mm/min.

G0G90 X0Y0A0Z0
G1 Z5 F100
G0 G90  X36 
G1 Z-1 F100
G1 X18 A-1080 F300
G1 Z5 F100
G0G90 X36
G1 Z-2 F100
G1 X18 A-2160 F300
G1 Z5 F100
G0G90 X36
G1 Z-3 F100
G1 X18 A-3240 F300
G1 Z5 F100
G0G90 X36
G1 Z-3.1 F100
G1 X18 A-4320 F400
G1 Z15 F100
G0G90 X0  


> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: April 12, 2024 9:10 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > Sent: April 12, 2024 7:40 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral
> > I see now.  That looks like a scroll for a 3 jawed chuck, a much tighter
> > twist than I had envisioned as I was imagining a turbocharger wheel in
> > my mind. For this, Z feed here is only for DOC. And it looks as if you
> > did well!  Congratulations are in order!
> >
> > What mill is that? The post cover looks a lot like my go704.
> 
> I have no idea.  The fellow is in Europe somewhere.  I think Spain.  And
> yes.  It's a scroll for a chuck.  Past that I know nothing.
> 
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: April 12, 2024 7:40 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral
> I see now.  That looks like a scroll for a 3 jawed chuck, a much tighter
> twist than I had envisioned as I was imagining a turbocharger wheel in
> my mind. For this, Z feed here is only for DOC. And it looks as if you
> did well!  Congratulations are in order!
> 
> What mill is that? The post cover looks a lot like my go704.

I have no idea.  The fellow is in Europe somewhere.  I think Spain.  And
yes.  It's a scroll for a chuck.  Past that I know nothing.

> >
> > John
> >
> Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.



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Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: April 11, 2024 3:16 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral
> 
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 at 21:32, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > My Harmonic drive is set up as an  'A' axis so the graphic on the screen
> > shows the spiral being cut along the X as the work in line with X turns.
> >
> > I'd have to change my INI or HAL file to make the axis of rotation of the
> > harmonic drive to be in line with the Z axis.  Don't know how to do that.
> 
> 
> If you can re-orient it physically, then there is no need to change the
> axis name in HAL. just carry on calling it "A".

True but it doesn't make a pretty tool path on the AXIS display.
John



> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
 
> > I only have the 4th Axis version of MECSOFT so I can't generate a fifth
axis
> program cutting a spiral with the mill using the rotary table.
> 
> Why should you need a 5th axis? What are you going to do with it? I
> cannot visualize the need.
> 
> > But I think I agree the best way to do this is probably still by hand or
with a
> support program that generate the G-code based on parameter input like
> min/max SFM.
> >
> > John

Gene,
My Harmonic drive is set up as an  'A' axis so the graphic on the screen
shows the spiral being cut along the X as the work in line with X turns.

I'd have to change my INI or HAL file to make the axis of rotation of the
harmonic drive to be in line with the Z axis.  Don't know how to do that.
John




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Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral

[John Dammeyer]

Where I'm still having trouble is understanding the compromises.

Using G02 I,J motion it's possible to specify a feed rate and spindle RPM that 
remains constant regardless of the spiral diameter.  This approach generated by 
the CAM software does a number of segments.  But since a spiral is continuously 
changing the radius doesn't this approach still create a blocky segmented 
series of lines?  Shouldn't there really be more like a new line for every say 
one tenth of a degree of rotation?
%
N1 G17 G21 G40 G90
(2 1/2 Axis Profiling)
N2 T1 M06
N3 S2000 M3
N4 G0 Z11.35
N5 X-6.795 Y-2.3642
N6 G1 Z5. F745.1
N7 X-4.971 Y3.7182 F372.5
N8 G17
N9 G02X2.9354Y7.9767I6.0824J-1.824 F279.4
N10 X0.0086Y-11.1633I-3.0663J-9.3249 F372.5
N11 X-4.8878Y12.9255I-0.3348J12.4739
N12 X10.8896Y-12.3617I5.6431J-14.0447
N13 X-16.8958Y8.9702I-11.9852J13.1505
N14 X21.6077Y-2.7715I18.1973J-9.3286
N15 X-23.7802Y-5.6409I-22.9524J2.6529
N16 X22.4641Y15.1503I24.9984J6.2225
N17 X-18.2168Y-23.5731I-23.4829J-16.0603
N18 X12.0427Y30.2156I18.8718J24.7892
N19 X-3.5415Y-35.0813I-12.341J-31.5628
N20 X-6.7258Y37.3924I3.4567J36.4587
N21 X17.9557Y-36.5564I7.1836J-38.6957
N22 X-29.1519Y32.2355I-18.7497J37.6857
N23 X39.2113Y-24.4201I30.2257J-33.1012
N24 X-47.7931Y-8.2457I-40.4241J24.6445
N25 G1 X-49.1271 Y-2.0374 F745.1
N26 G0 Z11.35
N27 M30
%

On the other hand with the rotary table the motion is continuous for both axis.
G00 G49 G40.1 G17 G80 G50 G90
G20
(2 1/2 Axis Profiling)
M6 T2
M03 S2000
G1 F100 A3600 X60
G00 Z0.2362
M5 M9
M30

However the F100 is a joke because my A axis can't run more than 7 ipm or so.  
I have faint memories of that from a previous discussion on how to set up the A 
axis.  My INI file says
DEFAULT_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 90.00
MIN_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 0
MAX_ANGULAR_VELOCITY = 180.00

I think that's in degrees per second because at a G01 F6 A3600 it takes 2 
seconds to do one revolution.  Now that's still plenty fast if we are slotting 
with a 3mm or 0.118" end mill.  However the problem of SFM is now in the 
picture.   Again, a custom G-Code solution would likely be to do something like 
the following.

G01 F6 A360 X10
F5.5 A720 X20
F5  A1080 X30

And so on...  Picking both X resolution and A distance to create a closer to 
ideal SFM.  I don't know if there is a G-Code that states the F rate for the A 
axis is in degrees per minute so it's some sort of conversion from IPM.

I only have the 4th Axis version of MECSOFT so I can't generate a fifth axis 
program cutting a spiral with the mill using the rotary table.

But I think I agree the best way to do this is probably still by hand or with a 
support program that generate the G-code based on parameter input like min/max 
SFM.

John



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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Balluff BRGE1-WSE10 encoder

[John Dammeyer]

I'd take a closer look at the power supplies.  A system from 1997 could easily 
have electrolytic capacitors that have aged enough to no longer be effective.  
If you have an ESR meter you could pull caps and check against new ones.  Or 
just go whole hog and replace them all.  
John

> > >> -Original Message-
> > >> From: Leonardo Marsaglia 
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2024 7:56 AM
> > >> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)  us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > >> Subject: [Emc-users] OT: Balluff BRGE1-WSE10 encoder
> > >>
> > >> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> > >>
> > >> Hello guys, I hope you're doing well
> > >>
> > >> I'm having problems with a Daewoo Puma 12L lathe to index some tools.
> > The
> > >> problem is that some tools work well and others don't seem to be
> > detected
> > >> by the control to stop at the position and clamp the turret. So the
> > turret
> > >> keeps rotatring until the timeout triggers.
> > >>
> > >> The lathe is working now because some turret positions are usable. But I
> > >> would like to try and detect the problem in case it's the encoder,
> > because
> > >> they seem hard to find. Are you familiar with any of these? My idea in
> > case
> > >> the problem is the encoder is:
> > >>
> > >> 1- Replace it for the same encoder (which I can't find anywhere)
> > >>
> > >> 2- Use a 100 pulses abs encoder and scale it via a microcontroller to 10
> > >> pulses to accommodate it to what I need. Then feed those signals to the
> > >> control. (The problem is I only found a basic manual for the encoder
> > with
> > >> the pinout, but nothing about how it behaves, I don't know if it uses a
> > BCD
> > >> or plain binary, etc...)
> > >>
> > >> Of course in the near future this will be converted to LCNC and none of
> > >> this would be a problem. But in the meantime I would like to have a
> > backup
> > >> in case the encoder fails completely.
> > >>
> > >> Thank you!
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> Emc-users mailing list
> > >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> Emc-users mailing list
> > >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >>
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> >   - Louis D. Brandeis
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Gene,
Just like I can't get my head around Fusion360 or similar CAD.
AlibreCAD has gone downhill since they trashed their relationship with
MecSoft which correspondingly trashed AlibreCAM.
I'll take a closer look at your approach later today.
Thanks
John

> -Original Message-
> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: April 10, 2024 3:42 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral
> 
> On 4/10/24 03:37, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Hi Marcus,
> >
> > Here's the problem.
> >
> > My Alibre CAD/Cam can produce a spiral slot in a disk using X and Y
motion.
> 
> I looked at alibre, could not get my Iowa farm kid head around it. Far
> easier for me to write my own gcode.
> 
> In linuxcnc, you can trade the axis names around to fit your hdwe.
> 
> How far can you tilt your Z? Mine can do a full 90, aka lay the spindle
> horizontal.  Either way IIRC. I can then use X as X, A as A, and a
> single straight line move to carve the spiral using Z while A is turning
> N degrees to carve the spiral. So the gcode then becomes a subroutine to
> do that, and a 2nd loop routine to handle the start of the spiral and
> possibly a master outer loop to do any incremental cuts to get to the
> depth needed. Maybe 80 LOC total.
> 
> If your head cannot tilt that far, then you''l have to cobble up a C,
> facing up which I CAN do but its a 90/1 drive and will restrict the
> speed as It can't turn fast enough. Also has a std stepper motor, push
> its speed and it stalls. Someday I'll put a good motor on it.
> 
> A Warning though, most of the combo gizmos they sell for $300 or so on
> ebay are belt drive and no-where near strong enough for this. I did use
> my 90/1 as A when making my tap hats. Used it to drill & tap the 4 grub
> screw holes. I setup workstations on the length of the go704's table,
> put a piece of brass rod in the spindle, drilled the hole for the tap,
> move the brass to a clamp, drilled and tapped for a locking to an r8
> collet screw hole, moved the brass to the A chuck and drilled and tapped
> all 4 grub screws. All in the same gcode file with pauses and automatic
> tlo offset corrections as the drills were different lengths.  Made a
> regular production line out of it, took longer moving the brass around
> than the total run time for the machine.
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > If I tell it to use my 4th axis it's like the video you posted.
Designed
> > for creating a spiral on something horizontal to say the X axis.
> >
> > I think I'd have to buy the 5th axis capability in order to be able to
have
> > the rotary table turn while the cutter moves in the X direction as the
> > spiral is created.
> >
> >
> >
> > So if I wanted to move the rotary table N degrees while moving X a
spiral
> > would also be created.  I guess I'm having trouble figuring out the math
for
> > the G-Code.
> 
> It just one command with prelimiinary. in your case position incut at N
> degrees
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >
> >> From: marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk
> >
> >> [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk]
> >
> >> Sent: April 10, 2024 12:00 AM
> >
> >> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> >
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral
> >
> >>
> >
> >> As I recall, someone on this list posted a note or a link about how to
> >
> >> create a fusee for a clock (essentially a tapered spiral, running from
> >
> >> large diameter to smaller diameter while spiralling - rather like a
> >
> >> tapered woodscrew thread). Is a constant-diameter version of that what
> >
> >> you had in mind?
> >
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAAajypWQyw
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Sadly, I can't remember who contributed that note on this list. I do
> >
> >> think there may be a routine somewhere in the LinuxCNC electronic
> >
> >> resources.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Marcus
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >> On 2024-04-10 06:55, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >
> >>> A friend and I have been discussing exactly how to write the G-Code to
> >
> >>> create a spiral scroll.
> >
> >>>
> >
> >>> His rotary table 90:1 reduction with a 1600 micro-step motor could be
> >
> >>> set up
> >
> >>> to move N steps for each step of the X axis to create the spiral.  But
>

Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Andy,


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: April 10, 2024 1:54 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral
> 
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 at 06:59, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Without using G2 or G3 it's really just a triangle isn't it?  Move rotary
> > table distance A and move X axis distance A'.  Do it in small enough
> > increments and you get a spiral.  But I feel like I'm missing something
> > really simple.
> 
> 
> If there is a rotary table, then if he wanted a 10 turn spiral at 6mm pitch:
> 
> G1 F100 A3600 Z60

I can see with your mill how the tool sticks out horizontal so Z moves along 
the spiral.
On my system Z would be depth of the spiral with the rotary table surface 
horizontal so I believe I'd have to move X.

I'll give it a try.

> 
> Should be all that is needed.
> 
> Without a rotary table getting a true spiral is a bit more difficult as the
> radius of curvature continually changes, not something that G2 and G3
> support.
> I just experimented with polar coordinates, but those only make
> straight-line moves between endpoints.
> You can get close with arcs that are set up to be tangent to each other.
> 

I'll give that a try.  Here's the G-Code for simple G03 Arcs.   I'll try a 
piece of MDF in the router later today and give it a try.
G00 G49 G40.1 G17 G80 G50 G90
G20
(2 1/2 Axis Profiling)
M6 T2
M03 S2000
G00 Z0.2362
X1.9541 Y-0.2875
G01 Z-0.0394  F6.9
X1.9431 Y-0.0378  F3.4
G17
G03X-0.9159Y1.5406I-1.8761J-0.0197
X-0.8023Y-1.5842I0.9413J-1.5302
X1.6952Y0.1276I0.7916J1.5228
X-0.9227Y1.2481I-1.6261J-0.1807
X-0.4850Y-1.4614I0.9422J-1.2379
X1.4359Y0.2432I0.4780J1.3960
X-0.9295Y0.9243I-1.3645J-0.2907
X-0.2234Y-1.2839I0.9422J-0.9157
X1.1298Y0.4190I0.2223J1.2124
X-0.8954Y0.5843I-1.0567J-0.4575
X0.0243Y-1.0653I0.8997J-0.5796
X0.8182Y0.4888I-0.0176J0.9888
X-0.7397Y0.3786I-0.7459J-0.5226
X0.0233Y-0.8290I0.7429J-0.3755
X0.6610Y0.2987I-0.0186J0.7546
X-0.5013Y0.3238I-0.5887J-0.3349
X-0.0334Y-0.5933I0.5078J-0.3188
X0.4767Y0.1441I0.0350J0.5209
X-0.2823Y0.2285I-0.4046J-0.1840
X-0.0458Y-0.3561I0.2918J-0.2221
X0.2713Y0.0272I0.0449J0.2857
X-0.0860Y0.0982I-0.1995J-0.0694
X-0.0295Y-0.1213I0.0991J-0.0915
X0.0557Y-0.0585I0.0246J0.0558
G00 Z0.2362
M5 M9
M30

John

> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks Alan,
I'll take a look at this later today.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Condit via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: April 10, 2024 9:27 AM
> To: EMC-Users
> Cc: Alan Condit
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral
> 
> John,
> 
> Here us a subroutine I wrote to cut a scroll.
> #<_xorigin>, and #<_yorigin> are the center of the scroll. Basically it 
> changes
> the radius of the circle every � turn.
> 
> 
> (Subroutine to cut spiral in)
> (o call [X] [Y] [Depth] [Stepover] [Radius])
> o sub
> (#1 is X center)
> (#2 is Y center)
> (#3 is Z plunge depth)
> (#4 is the stepover amount )
> (#5 is the ending radius )
> (# is the amount to increment start of the next loop)
> # = #1
> # = #2
> # = [0-#3]( Depth of cut )
> # = #4 ( Size of stepover )
> # = #5  ( Starting Radius )
> #=[#/4] ( 1/4 of stepover )
> # = #
> 
> G10 L2 P3 X[#<_xorigin>+#] Y[#<_yorigin>+#] Z#<_zorigin> (
> Set the Current Coordinate for G56 )
> # = #<_close_Z>( set Zcut to top of 
> material )
> G56  ( Select Coordinate system 3 
> )
> G00 X0 Y[0-#] Z#<_close_Z>
> G01 Z# F#<_xyfeed>
> o WHILE [# GT 0]
>   o IF [[# - #] GE #]
> G03 X0 Y[[#-#]*[-1]] R[#-#]
>   o ENDIF
>   o IF [[# - [2*#]] GE #]
> G03 X[#-[2*#]]Y0 R[#-
> [2*#]]
>   o ENDIF
>   o IF [[# - [3*#]] GE #]
> G03 X0 Y[#-[3*#]]    R[#-
> [3*#]]
>   o ENDIF
>   o IF [[# - #] GE #]
> G03 X[[#-#]*[-1]]  Y0 R[#-#]
>   o ENDIF
>   # = [#-#]
> o ENDWHILE
> G0 Z#<_close_Z>
> G55
> o endsub
> 
> 
> Alan
> > From: "John Dammeyer"  <mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com>>
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral
> > Date: April 10, 2024 at 12:55:36�AM CDT
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)"  us...@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>>
> >
> >
> > A friend and I have been discussing exactly how to write the G-Code to
> > create a spiral scroll.
> >
> > His rotary table 90:1 reduction with a 1600 micro-step motor could be set up
> > to move N steps for each step of the X axis to create the spiral.  But that
> > approach seems clumsy.
> >
> > Say I wanted to cut a scroll with a 6mm pitch using a 3mm cutter.
> >
> >
> >
> > Without using G2 or G3 it's really just a triangle isn't it?  Move rotary
> > table distance A and move X axis distance A'.  Do it in small enough
> > increments and you get a spiral.  But I feel like I'm missing something
> > really simple.
> >
> >
> >
> > Suggestions?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Marcus,

Here's the problem.   

My Alibre CAD/Cam can produce a spiral slot in a disk using X and Y motion.



If I tell it to use my 4th axis it's like the video you posted.  Designed
for creating a spiral on something horizontal to say the X axis.

I think I'd have to buy the 5th axis capability in order to be able to have
the rotary table turn while the cutter moves in the X direction as the
spiral is created.

 

So if I wanted to move the rotary table N degrees while moving X a spiral
would also be created.  I guess I'm having trouble figuring out the math for
the G-Code.

John

 

 

> -Original Message-

> From: marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk

> [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk]

> Sent: April 10, 2024 12:00 AM

> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)

> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Carving a spiral

> 

> As I recall, someone on this list posted a note or a link about how to

> create a fusee for a clock (essentially a tapered spiral, running from

> large diameter to smaller diameter while spiralling - rather like a

> tapered woodscrew thread). Is a constant-diameter version of that what

> you had in mind?

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAAajypWQyw

> 

> Sadly, I can't remember who contributed that note on this list. I do

> think there may be a routine somewhere in the LinuxCNC electronic

> resources.

> 

> Marcus

> 

> 

> 

> On 2024-04-10 06:55, John Dammeyer wrote:

> > A friend and I have been discussing exactly how to write the G-Code to

> > create a spiral scroll.

> >

> > His rotary table 90:1 reduction with a 1600 micro-step motor could be

> > set up

> > to move N steps for each step of the X axis to create the spiral.  But

> > that

> > approach seems clumsy.

> >

> > Say I wanted to cut a scroll with a 6mm pitch using a 3mm cutter.

> >

> >

> >

> > Without using G2 or G3 it's really just a triangle isn't it?  Move

> > rotary

> > table distance A and move X axis distance A'.  Do it in small enough

> > increments and you get a spiral.  But I feel like I'm missing something

> > really simple.

> >

> >

> >

> > Suggestions?

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > John

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ___

> > Emc-users mailing list

> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net

> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

> 

> 

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[Emc-users] Carving a spiral

[John Dammeyer]

A friend and I have been discussing exactly how to write the G-Code to
create a spiral scroll. 

His rotary table 90:1 reduction with a 1600 micro-step motor could be set up
to move N steps for each step of the X axis to create the spiral.  But that
approach seems clumsy.

Say I wanted to cut a scroll with a 6mm pitch using a 3mm cutter.  

 

Without using G2 or G3 it's really just a triangle isn't it?  Move rotary
table distance A and move X axis distance A'.  Do it in small enough
increments and you get a spiral.  But I feel like I'm missing something
really simple.

 

Suggestions?

Thanks

John

 


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Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi5

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks for that link.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: Eric Keller [mailto:keller...@gmail.com]
> Sent: April 9, 2024 11:31 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi5
> 
> If I was starting a new project and needed the space saving of a Pi, I
> would get a Pi5.  There is a long thread on the forum about making it
> work.
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/50203-linuxcnc-on-
> raspberry-pi-5
> Eric Keller
> Boalsburg Pennsylvania
> 
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 12:50�PM John Dammeyer
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Will the Pi5  be any better for LinuxCNC than the Pi4 with a MESA Ethernet
> > Controller or is the Pi4 already more than what LinuxCNC requires?
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi5

[John Dammeyer]

The Pi5 comes with dual band WiFi so external access is probably possible.
I'm using an older PC with 7i92H.  Playing on the lab bench with a Pi4 and
7i82H, LCD touch screen etc.  
The problems I've run into are more along the lines of user interface with
respect to the smaller touch screen.  In the long run likely a bad purchase.
There are 42 other projects in front of this one at the moment but I thought
I'd ask.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: April 9, 2024 10:30 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Raspberry Pi5
> 
> On 4/9/24 12:50, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Will the Pi5  be any better for LinuxCNC than the Pi4 with a MESA
Ethernet
> > Controller or is the Pi4 already more than what LinuxCNC requires?
> >
> > John
> I am running a late 1940's Sheldon 11x54 first with an rpi3b, but its
> tongue was dragging on the floor, and I've not seen any evidence of that
> since switching to an rpi4b not long after it came out.
> 
> I did put many of the "manual functions" in a separate 200 hz thread
> while it was still running of the 3b, and have not taken any of it out
> since swapping in the rpi4. My .hal file is available, just ask, for a
> 7i90HD & a triplet of 7i42TA's to anyone who asks.  It uses a Spinx1 to
> talk to the vfd.  This leaves the ethernet free to tend to the usual
> network stuff. Like updating the os or even browsing you-tube.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > .
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
> 
> 
> 
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[Emc-users] Raspberry Pi5

[John Dammeyer]

Hi all,

Will the Pi5  be any better for LinuxCNC than the Pi4 with a MESA Ethernet
Controller or is the Pi4 already more than what LinuxCNC requires?

John


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Re: [Emc-users] GibbsCAM machine .pst file.

[John Dammeyer]

Oh and I made a mistake.  The pst file I have is for a Fadal.  And a reference 
to that systems G-Code is here:
https://www.helmancnc.com/fadal-g-codes-m-codes-fixed-subroutines/
Now I know what an 'E' does and also the 84.1 and 84.2.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: March 27, 2024 10:03 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] GibbsCAM machine .pst file.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.  I did find a LinuxCnc-Mill-jk.pM3  file which is 
> used
> with the PostHaste Plugin.   It produced code that didn't cause LCNC to
> complain.
> However I can't figure out how to actually create a .pst file.  I have about 
> 28
> days left on my GibbsCAM evaluation so perhaps I'll reach out to them.
> John
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Phill Carter via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> > Sent: March 27, 2024 9:32 PM
> > To: linuxcnc-users
> > Cc: Phill Carter
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] GibbsCAM machine .pst file.
> >
> > If you cannot get a post processor for LinuxCNC then another option would
> > be to run the Fanuc g-code file through a Python filter program to
> automate
> > any required changes:
> >
> > <http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.9/html/gui/filter-programs.html>
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 28 Mar 2024, at 2:01?pm, John Dammeyer 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone have a generic GibbsCAM  .pst file for LinuxCNC?
> > >
> > > I've generated G-Code for a FANUC but comments start with a '*' and it
> has
> > > rigid tapping using G84.1 and G84.2.  I replaced those with G84 just to 
> > > see
> > > if it would load.  Had to add an M3 in front of the S300.
> > >
> > > There are probably other issues too that I haven't found yet.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] GibbsCAM machine .pst file.

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks for the feedback.  I did find a LinuxCnc-Mill-jk.pM3  file which is used 
with the PostHaste Plugin.   It produced code that didn't cause LCNC to 
complain.  
However I can't figure out how to actually create a .pst file.  I have about 28 
days left on my GibbsCAM evaluation so perhaps I'll reach out to them.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: Phill Carter via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: March 27, 2024 9:32 PM
> To: linuxcnc-users
> Cc: Phill Carter
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] GibbsCAM machine .pst file.
> 
> If you cannot get a post processor for LinuxCNC then another option would
> be to run the Fanuc g-code file through a Python filter program to automate
> any required changes:
> 
> <http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.9/html/gui/filter-programs.html>
> 
> 
> 
> > On 28 Mar 2024, at 2:01�pm, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone have a generic GibbsCAM  .pst file for LinuxCNC?
> >
> > I've generated G-Code for a FANUC but comments start with a '*' and it has
> > rigid tapping using G84.1 and G84.2.  I replaced those with G84 just to see
> > if it would load.  Had to add an M3 in front of the S300.
> >
> > There are probably other issues too that I haven't found yet.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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> 
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[Emc-users] GibbsCAM machine .pst file.

[John Dammeyer]

Does anyone have a generic GibbsCAM  .pst file for LinuxCNC?

I've generated G-Code for a FANUC but comments start with a '*' and it has
rigid tapping using G84.1 and G84.2.  I replaced those with G84 just to see
if it would load.  Had to add an M3 in front of the S300.  

There are probably other issues too that I haven't found yet.

Thanks

John

 


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Re: [Emc-users] HAAS file

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks Dale,
I've reached out to the retired machinist.  I'm thinking now it might be 
CAD/CAM software with the G-Code embedded inside it.
https://www.gibbscam.com/en
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Dale Ertley via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: March 21, 2024 7:52 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Cc: Dale Ertley
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] HAAS file
> 
> 
> Have you looked at the files with a text editor.�Notepad should works.
> It may be a G code file but just made on the machine and not in a cad
> software.
> I have gone to Cimco Edit to see where a file is messed
> up.https://www.cimco.com/software/cimco-edit/That is after the post
> output.
> Sorry I don't have a copy now.
> Dale
>     On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 01:55:55 AM EDT, John Dammeyer
>  wrote:
> 
>  I received a couple of .VNC files used on a HAAS to make heat sinks.� The
> company that did them has closed down but the owner was kind enough to
> give
> me the files on a zip drive.� Not only that he also gave me a 1/8" 3 flute
> Niagara cutter used to cut the fins along with verbal instructions on how he
> did things.
> 
> Is it possible to translate those files into G-Code?� I did the original
> drawings.� I could do G-Code using my AlibreCAM from MecSoft.� But I'd
> like
> to be able to look at what the HAAS was told to do.
> 
> Is there a way to translate these files?� They are too big to attach but I
> can email them if someone knows how to do this.
> Thanks
> John
> 
> 
> 
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[Emc-users] HAAS file

[John Dammeyer]

I received a couple of .VNC files used on a HAAS to make heat sinks.  The
company that did them has closed down but the owner was kind enough to give
me the files on a zip drive.   Not only that he also gave me a 1/8" 3 flute
Niagara cutter used to cut the fins along with verbal instructions on how he
did things.

Is it possible to translate those files into G-Code?  I did the original
drawings.  I could do G-Code using my AlibreCAM from MecSoft.  But I'd like
to be able to look at what the HAAS was told to do.

Is there a way to translate these files?  They are too big to attach but I
can email them if someone knows how to do this.
Thanks
John



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Re: [Emc-users] WiFi & MESA

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Gene,

Sorry but for me Samba works just fine.  Below The local disks on the WIN-10
system with the P: drive shared as P: on all the other systems so the paths
just work.  On the network there's the:

Synology NAS

ASUS WIN-XP running accounting software and programs for hardware that isn't
supported on newer systems.

CORSAIR-2 is the WIN-10 system

Flipper-V is my HP laptop also WIN-10.

PiZero is well  a PiZeroW running Raspian Linux.

And SERVER is a Windows Home Server 2001 that is still used to automatically
back up the systems.

When I run the Pi4 with LinuxCNC it also shows up and I can drag and drop
files between them.  The Pi4 can see and access all the folders on the
windows system.

When I bring up an old VISTA laptop that runs an older USB key'd version of
CAD software that isn't available.  Also visible.

 

All I really want is to be able to do this with the existing PC  based
LinuxCNC.  

John

 

 



 

> -Original Message-

> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]

> Why do you persist in messing around with samba/cifs?  It has not worked

> 2 apt updates in a row since Tridgle took on a partner better than a

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Re: [Emc-users] Acceleration question.

[John Dammeyer]

Gosh this was almost 2 years ago.  Don't even remember why I was asking.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: February 23, 2024 10:30 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acceleration question.
> 
> It is very easy to compute the rotational momentum of a complex-shape
> flywheel.   Let�s use a simplified case as an example:  You have a 100 mm
> diameter steel disk with an 80 mm hole.  This looks like a ring made of 10 mm
> thick metal.
> 
> First compute the momentum as if there was no hole, for a solid 100 mm
> disk,Next compute the same for an 80 mm disk. Subtract the 80mm disk
> momentum from the 100 mm disk momentum.
> 
> If you want to account for the spokes, figure out their �average thickness� as
> if the spokes were replaced by a thin sheet of metal and add that back in.
> 
> There is a more complex way to do this but it requires Calculus.   I think 
> they
> showed us the hard way just so that they could come back and show us
> students that you could decompose any complex wheel into a set of simple
> disks and then add and subtract them.
> 
> +
> 
> Stepper motors CAN work.   But not if you use the simple Step/Direction
> interface most drivers offer.   The step/dir convention is NOT a function of
> the motor.  It is a function of the motor driver.  The motor itself as A+/A-,
> B+/B- leads and takes analog voltages.  It is nothing more than a two-phase
> BLDC motor with many pole pairs.   You can drive a stepper in �continuous
> and smooth non-stepping� mode if you like, if you get a smarter driver that
> can continuously vary the input voltages.  The more sophisticated controller
> can driver the motor in �torque mode� so that it supplies a specified torque.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > On Feb 23, 2024, at 10:05�AM, gene heskett 
> wrote:
> >
> > On 6/16/22 21:57, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >> Hi Gene,
> >> Quite right.  That link I posted used a table while in fact, as you pointed
> out, the mass is mostly on the outside of a flywheel with spokes.  I would
> imagine at there is some average where if it's a 300 lb disk that is 24" 
> might be
> the same as a 36" disk that is 400 lbs.
> >> Think of a fly press for example with a clutch that engages the tooling.
> Even if it does take 5 seconds to get up to speed, the clutch engages, the 
> tool
> moves down and punches and moves up and the clutch releases.  Even if the
> speed slowed down by 20% when the clutch released then assuming linear
> acceleration now only 1 second is required to bring the speed back up.  At 50
> RPM (0.83 seconds per rev) then you could do another punch stroke 1
> second later and so possibly run 30 strokes per minute.
> >> That jpg chart I included suggests with 100% efficiency and no real 
> >> friction
> that 45 oz-in are required.   Seems very low to me hence the questions.  Even
> if I did use a stepper motor and went 16:1 to bring the RPM down to 800 RPM
> the motor could easily be a size 23 300 oz-in.
> >> Could that actually bring a flywheel up to that speed in 5 seconds?
> >
> > The closest I could come, assuming no frictional losses, would still be 
> > just a
> SWAG. But it sure seems to me a decimal point got moved or left out
> someplace.
> >
> > A stepper would be a poor choice of power unless the stepper drive also
> started at zero. A stepper unable to stay synced with the incoming step rate
> has next to zero torque. A vfd makes far more sense as you could set it for 2
> or 3x the motors FLA and the vfd would then throttle the current, using
> seriosly more drive currant immediately after a strike to get it back to 
> speed,
> but the average would still be only maintenance unless it was striking with
> every revolution. EG 50 strikes a minute. Given the time to extract and
> replace the next work piece is going to be at least a second, that would be
> one heck of a busy machine. Much the same could be said of a hirez encoder
> whose output was compared to the desired speed and a 1 horse treadmill
> motor being run by one of Jon's pwm-servos. Both solutions would need far
> less electrical power to get the job done than a steeper could do.
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> >>> Sent: June-16-22 6:34 PM
> >>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acceleration question.
> >>>
> >>> On 6/16/22 20:54, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >>>> OK.  I realize this will be a dumb question but please bear with me
> especially since I've

Re: [Emc-users] WiFi & MESA

[John Dammeyer]

Yup.  Stretch.

john@LinuxCNC-G3616:~$ lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Debian
Description:Debian GNU/Linux 9.13 (stretch)
Release:9.13
Codename:   stretch

However, when I went down to the machine to do this it was locked solid.  No 
mouse movement.  Took a while to even reset.  Hasn't done this before.  I 
unplugged the WiFi USB and we'll see if it locks up.   Likely it's a good idea 
to move up to a newer version.  Sleuthing lock up problems on older 
hardware/software is such a waste of time.

For now I guess it's still sneaker net.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: February 23, 2024 1:24 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] WiFi & MESA
> 
> On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 at 20:44, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> > john@LinuxCNC-G3616:~$ uname -a
> > Linux LinuxCNC-G3616 4.9.0-16-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian
> 4.9.272-2
> > (2021-07-19) x86_64 GNU/Linux
> 
> Which OS are you using? (lsb_release -a will tell you) I am guessing
> Stretch?  (Which is pretty ancient)
> 
> You might need to update your repositories in synaptic by switching to
> archive.debian.org (or by editing etc/apt/sources.list
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] WiFi & MESA

[John Dammeyer]

Success!  Sort of.  Once I changed the address from 192.168.1.121 to ...122
I was able to connect to the MESA and also the WiFi.
auto eth0
  iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.1.122
netmask 255.255.255.0

I can even use Chrome to surf the web although it keeps asking for those
stupid keys (3x).

Next problem though is I want to install samba to link the way I have my
linux based Raspberry Pi, Beagles and even a macbook running linux with a Pi
user interface.
I get this dreadful feeling that I'm going to have to rebuild my Linux
system for a newer version.

john@LinuxCNC-G3616:~$ uname -a
Linux LinuxCNC-G3616 4.9.0-16-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.9.272-2
(2021-07-19) x86_64 GNU/Linux

If I do a
 sudo apt update

I get path not found errors.  Kind of like Windows no longer supporting
WIN-7 I guess.

And therefore 
  sudo apt install samba

doesn't work either.

What will I break if I do a 
  sudo apt upgrade

Thanks
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]
> Sent: February 23, 2024 2:42 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] WiFi & MESA
> 
> I have 3 machines running Ethernet Mesa cards and have had no problems
> using them with USB wifi dongles.
> 
> Do you have your Ethernet port assigned with a static IP address? This
> link may help <https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/debian-9-eth.html>
> 
> Les
> 
> 
> On 23/02/2024 07:46, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > My LCNC system is in the garage and the PC has only one hardware
> Ethernet
> > port which is connected to the MESA 7i92H.  Works like a charm.  No
issues.
> > I thought instead of sneakernet I'd try a WiFi adaptor I found in my
sons
> > things when I was cleaning up his stuff after his untimely passing.
> >
> > No problem.  Plug in the adaptor.  Boot the PC.
> > https://support.dlink.com/resource/products/DWA-140/REVA/DWA-
> 140_DATASHEET_1
> > .00_EN.PDF
> > Once I entered the correct password to get into my network it was alive.
> > Visible on the network.
> >
> > I then clicked on the ICON to start LinuxCNC and nada.  Couldn't connect
to
> > the MESA and therefore LinuxCNC didn't start.
> >
> > OK. Backtrack.  Unplug WiFi USB.  Restart PC and run LinuxCNC. Home all
> axis
> > and move to XY home.  Super.  It works.  Then plug in the WiFi dongle.
It
> > connects to the network and the Axis Interface immediately reports a
> > communications problem with the MESA board.  Unplugging the WiFi
> doesn't
> > matter.  I have to stop AXIS but the command line window also needs to
be
> > killed.  Trying to restart tells me LCNC is still running and do I want
to
> > restart.
> >
> > Yes.  And all is good in the LCNC world.
> >
> > So the question is:  How do I tell Linux to cooperate with both the MESA
> and
> > the WiFi Dongle?
> > Thanks
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[Emc-users] WiFi & MESA

[John Dammeyer]

Hi all,
My LCNC system is in the garage and the PC has only one hardware Ethernet
port which is connected to the MESA 7i92H.  Works like a charm.  No issues.
I thought instead of sneakernet I'd try a WiFi adaptor I found in my sons
things when I was cleaning up his stuff after his untimely passing.

No problem.  Plug in the adaptor.  Boot the PC.
https://support.dlink.com/resource/products/DWA-140/REVA/DWA-140_DATASHEET_1
.00_EN.PDF
Once I entered the correct password to get into my network it was alive.
Visible on the network.

I then clicked on the ICON to start LinuxCNC and nada.  Couldn't connect to
the MESA and therefore LinuxCNC didn't start.  

OK. Backtrack.  Unplug WiFi USB.  Restart PC and run LinuxCNC. Home all axis
and move to XY home.  Super.  It works.  Then plug in the WiFi dongle.  It
connects to the network and the Axis Interface immediately reports a
communications problem with the MESA board.  Unplugging the WiFi doesn't
matter.  I have to stop AXIS but the command line window also needs to be
killed.  Trying to restart tells me LCNC is still running and do I want to
restart. 

Yes.  And all is good in the LCNC world.

So the question is:  How do I tell Linux to cooperate with both the MESA and
the WiFi Dongle?
Thanks
John



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Re: [Emc-users] Axis direction

[John Dammeyer]

I'd guess that if you were a manufacturer of CNC equipment before the internet 
age you'd set up the machines however you wanted to lock in your customers.  
The idea of being compatible with your competitors is just wrong.

Now however, we have MACH, LinuxCNC, and a number of embedded systems not to 
mention the 3D printer world all using G-Code in one form or another.  So 
although the CAD/CAM world still has to be able to support a Z axis where a Z+ 
moves toward the turning part or spindle the reality is we're fortunately 
moving toward compatibility.  That old piece of iron with Z+ toward has the 
electronics (no schematics or support) ripped out and new electronics installed 
and to more of a standard.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com]
> Sent: February 8, 2024 9:36 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Axis direction
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I�m fairly sure that on a CNC machine the z-axis is the axis parallel to the
> spindle.
> On a CNC surface grinder, the Z axis is what you would expect to be the Y
> axis.
> 
> But in reality you can name them however you like. ??
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
> http://www.homanndesigns.com
> 
> > On 7 Feb 2024, at 5:29�am, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
> >
> > ?It is pretty easy to see WHY the z-axis is set up the way it is on a lath 
> > and a
> mill and why it is different.   You need a well defined �zero�.  On a mill, 
> the
> machine's �zero" is the table and one a mill it is the chuck.   A lathe has 
> not
> other well define place on the machine, the tailstock moves.
> >
> > The after defining the zero point you use the �natural� convention the
> number get bigger if you go to the right or up.
> >
> > This is the normal way engineers thing about corodrnttes.  you ask thee
> questions IN ORDER
> > 1) where is the origin?
> > 2) which way does �Z� point
> > 3) then apply the right hand rules for X and Y
> >
> > It�s not just machine tools that do this but everyone from physic research
> to aircraft manufacturing.  And you do have to answer those question in
> order.
> >
> > #2 is really arbitrary but from 8th grade algebra on, we are used to drawing
> graphs with the numbers getting bigger as you go up or right and with the
> zero point inthe lower left
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 6, 2024, at 6:06�AM, gene heskett 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 2/6/24 07:54, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> >>> Ray Henry's story is a Murphy's Law occurrence. I once had a car with a
> >>> starter problem. I changed the starter three or four times in quick
> >>> succession. I could not figure out why so I purchased two, put one in the
> >>> trunk along with tools. I never had to use it.
> >> Chuckle. BTDT...Still do at times. Works better than average. But the way
> Ray worded it caught me off guard and I literally shook myself laughing for
> quite a spell. I spent some time in Iron Mountain MI, about a long hour from
> Ray's place, so I visited a couple times while modifying the tv station there 
> for
> digital.
> >>
> >> If you ever come across any more of those teeny ball screws like you sold
> me around 20 years back I've got a place to put them.
> >>
> >> Take care & stay well, Stuart.
> >>
> >> Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
> >> --
> >> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> >> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> >> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> >> - Louis D. Brandeis
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Axis direction

[John Dammeyer]

No.  On the mill towards the tool on the spindle axis (z) is -.  Regardless of 
lathe or mill or CNC router Z decreases the closer the work gets to the tool.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users [mailto:emc-
> us...@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: February 6, 2024 1:13 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Cc: Gregg Eshelman
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Axis direction
> 
> Shouldn't cross slide motion be X and carriage motion be Z on a lathe? Like a
> mill tipped on its back.
>  On a mill, towards the tool on the spindle axis (Z) is + and table movement
> (X) to the right is +
> 
> So think of standing on the left side of a Bridgeport then tipping it over to 
> the
> left.
> 
> On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 11:05:50 AM MST, John Dammeyer
>  wrote:
> 
> There's been an interesting discussion on the Unimat users list about axis
> direction.� As usual someone can always find something on the web that
> supports their opinion.
> For example this one:
> https://digit-chain.com/names-of-axes-in-cnc-machine/
> 
> However I disagree that movement towards the rotating axis, be it the chuck
> on a lathe or the spinning cutter in a mill spindle,� is a Z+ direction.� 
> Doesn't
> even seem intuitive to me either.
> 
> Now it's true that you can set the Z=0.00 position anywhere in the G54...
> spaces depending on what you touch off on.� And then a movement toward
> the spindle could be positive.� But in an G53 machine coordinate space isn't a
> Z- direction towards the spinning tool or part?
> 
> That's the way I have my LCNC system and MACH system set up.� Even my
> ELS is negative towards the lathe chuck.
> 
> John
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Axis direction

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks everyone.  On the Unimat list there were a number of people really 
pushing the idea that Z+ was towards the chuck and it just didn't make sense.  
And as we all know, nowadays once can find an internet source that supports 
almost anything.  

Now if only the wand with the partridge feather core would arrive.  I'm sure 
the site selling it was not a con job.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> Sent: February 5, 2024 3:05 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Axis direction
> 
> Same here every machine I have used (12 years CNC machining).  negative z
> is always towards the chuck.
> 
> Or on a mill brings the tool down to table. Or table up towards tool
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024, 09:23 Sam Sokolik,  wrote:
> 
> > Even the k with a discrete component 60's control had smaller numbers
> > towards the spindle...
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 5, 2024, 1:36�PM 
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > John,
> > >
> > > Leaving aside right or left hand rules etc, leaning your head towards
> > > your left shoulder shows that the relationship between the spindle and
> > > the carriage is the same as on a vertical mill.
> > > To bring the spindle closer to the carriage is a move in the -Z
> > > direction.
> > > If the argument is about the tool position, with the work in the chuck,
> > > tilt your head to the right and you now have the tool on the right and
> > > the work on the left, like a mill with the tool above (on the right) and
> > > work in the chuck below (on the left0. Now the movement of the tool
> > > towards the work is still -Z.
> > >
> > > Marcus
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2024-02-05 18:01, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > > There's been an interesting discussion on the Unimat users list about
> > > > axis direction.  As usual someone can always find something on the web
> > > > that supports their opinion.
> > > > For example this one:
> > > > https://digit-chain.com/names-of-axes-in-cnc-machine/
> > > >
> > > > However I disagree that movement towards the rotating axis, be it the
> > > > chuck on a lathe or the spinning cutter in a mill spindle,  is a Z+
> > > > direction.  Doesn't even seem intuitive to me either.
> > > >
> > > > Now it's true that you can set the Z=0.00 position anywhere in the
> > > > G54... spaces depending on what you touch off on.  And then a
> movement
> > > > toward the spindle could be positive.  But in an G53 machine
> > > > coordinate space isn't a Z- direction towards the spinning tool or
> > > > part?
> > > >
> > > > That's the way I have my LCNC system and MACH system set up.  Even
> my
> > > > ELS is negative towards the lathe chuck.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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[Emc-users] Axis direction

[John Dammeyer]

There's been an interesting discussion on the Unimat users list about axis 
direction.  As usual someone can always find something on the web that supports 
their opinion.
For example this one:
https://digit-chain.com/names-of-axes-in-cnc-machine/

However I disagree that movement towards the rotating axis, be it the chuck on 
a lathe or the spinning cutter in a mill spindle,  is a Z+ direction.  Doesn't 
even seem intuitive to me either.

Now it's true that you can set the Z=0.00 position anywhere in the G54... 
spaces depending on what you touch off on.  And then a movement toward the 
spindle could be positive.  But in an G53 machine coordinate space isn't a Z- 
direction towards the spinning tool or part?

That's the way I have my LCNC system and MACH system set up.  Even my ELS is 
negative towards the lathe chuck.

John



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Re: [Emc-users] PCIe parallel port card suggestion

[John Dammeyer]

I'd be more inclined to change over to the MESA 7i92H and get two parallel
port cards with all the high end capabilities of that product for smoother
stepping etc.  I did and haven't looked back.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Tomaz T. [mailto:tomaz_...@hotmail.com]
> Sent: January 1, 2024 10:47 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] PCIe parallel port card suggestion
> 
> As I had to change computer with a newer one, and onboard parallel port
> isn't working, I need PCI express parallel port card.
> Which chipset or brand is verified to work well with lcnc?
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Ball Screw Driving Questions

[John Dammeyer]

There is no reason you cannot used a toothed belt and pulley at the other end.  
  As long as the lead screw backlash is taken out somehow.  On my Gingery Lathe 
I have two ball  thrust bearings on either side of the lead screw bushing 
taking out the backlash.  At the tail stock end a toothed pulley goes to the 
stepper motor.  I've not had any problems.

> -Original Message-
> From: Linden [mailto:l...@island.net]
> Sent: December 25, 2023 11:39 PM
> To: Chris Albertson; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Ball Screw Driving Questions
> 
> Thanks Chris
> 
> This is exactly the insight I was looking for now I understand why the
> conventional mounting is always with the servo at the head stock end.
> 
> Linden
> 
> On 2023-12-25 22:35, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > When it comes to flexing and bending, think about the bed too.  If the
> servo motor and pullies are mounted at the tailstock end, then the bed will
> carry the reaction forces and see exactly the same tension and �twist� force
> as the screw.  But if the motor is mounted at the headstock end the bed sees
> no net forces.
> >
> > The twist force on the bad will be the motor�s stall torque times the pulley
> reduction.  Would that be enough to warp a cast iron bad?  That depends on
> the detainees.
> >
> > Also you. want the force of the motor applied to the fixed end near the
> headstock because none of the mounting points will move as force is
> applied.
> >
> > In short, think about what bends as force is applied, the motor pushes on
> the screw one way and the motor mounts in an equal but opposite direction.
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 25, 2023, at 3:37�PM, Linden via Emc-users  us...@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello All,
> >>
> >>  In the early stages of converting a 13 x 24 inch manual Chinese lathe 
> >> to
> run with Linux CNC.
> >>
> >> I have 2 questions regarding replacing the Z axis lead screw with a 3205
> ball screw:
> >>
> >>   What I am thinking is mounting the fixed end in a pillow block at the 
> >> head
> stock end of the lathe and the floating end in a second pillow block at the 
> tail
> stock end of the bed. The question I have is there any reason I shouldn't
> drive the ball screw from the floating end? My logic for driving at the 
> floating
> (tali stock) end is  1 I have more room for belt reduction at this end and 2
> with the fixed end of the ball screw at the head stock end is that the ball
> screw will be in tension when it is pulling the carriage toward the head stock
> during cutting and less likely to flex or bend.
> >>
> >> The second question I have is what would be a realistic cutting speed
> range for the ball screw in RPM?  The servo motor I am using has a top speed
> of 3000rpm and I am trying to figure out reduction ratio that is realistic.
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.
> >>
> >>
> >> Linden
> >>
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.9.2 is released

[John Dammeyer]

Is there going to be a MicroSD image for The Pi4?

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: December 25, 2023 6:15 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.9.2 is released
> 
> LinuxCNC 2.9.2 has been released. This is a bugfix release, with the
> most obvious change being that run-from-line in the Axis interface
> should now be working again.
> 
> Packages have been prepared for:
> Buster - uspace - amd64 (PC) armhf (Pi) arm64 (Pi with 64-bit kernels)
> Buster - RTAI - amd64
> Bullseye - uspace - ams64 (only)
> Bookworm - uspace - amd64, arm64
> Bookworm - RTAI - amd64
> 
> For existing users of 2.9.1 on the above platforms this should be
> offered as an automatic update.
> 
> If anyone badly needs Bullseye debs for RTAI or arm64 / armhf then let
> me know. (all but the amd64 uspace builds have to be manually created)
> 
> Contributors to this release are:
>  Alec Ari
> andypugh
> c-morley
> dps.lwk
> Greg Carl
> Hans Unzner
> H�vard F. Aasen
> Moses McKnight
> Norbert Schechner
> Peter Wallace
> Petter Reinholdtsen
> Phillip Carter
> Rene Hopf
> Sebastian Kuzminsky
> Sigma1912
> Steffen Moeller
> 
> Full changelog:
> 
>   * Add dither option to PWMGen for improved analog resolution
>   * axis: Fix run-from-line - bug #2771
>   * debian/changelog: fix epoch & white space
>   * deleted craftsman gui, as it is not python 2 nor gtk3 based and
> not mantained for a long period
>   * deleted gmoccapy plasma, as glade panels are still in gtk2
>   * Docs: Many updates
>   * fix hardcoded description in Spanish language Closes: #1057312
>   * Fixes warnings for possible string truncation with strncpy()
>   * Gladevcp: fix error on missing filter program
>   * gmoccapy: Fixed Inappropriate Logical Expression (#2769)
>   * gmoccapy: fixes error when trying to hide the turtle-jog button in
> gmoccapy
>   * hal_glib -add get_linuxcnc_version function
>   * Increase size of STACK_ENTRY_LEN
>   * Merge pull request #2567 from petterreinholdtsen/2.9-gcode-g38.2
>   * Merge pull request #2757 from dpslwk/patch-1
>   * Merge pull request #2761 from LinuxCNC/s_code_fix
>   * Merge pull request #2765 from LinuxCNC/pncconf_fix_missing_ssport
>   * Merge pull request #2772 from hansu/fix-debian-1057312
>   * Merge pull request #2775 from smoe/translation_breaking_po4a
>   * Merge pull request #2782 from Sigma1912/patch-2
>   * Merge pull request #2783 from Sigma1912/patch-3
>   * Merge pull request #2790 from havardAasen/fix-string-truncation
>   * Merge pull request #2791 from havardAasen/havardAasen-patch-1
>   * Merge pull request #2795 from havardAasen/build-dependency
>   * motion control: allow the spindle to be on with speed of 0
>   * motion: fix brake/direction setting when S command is sent.
>   * motion.c: Improve handling of misc_error pin names See #2780 #2773
>   * pmx483-test: change package message to python3-serial
>   * pncconf - change spindle stepgen enable from spindle-enable to machine-
> is-on
>   * pncconf -fix HAL load command for 2 serialports
>   * qtaxis -add version string to log
>   * qtdragon -add a default 'factor' to avoid error message
>   * qtdragon_hd -fix stylesheets for 5 axis, adjust qtdragon.ui
>   * qtdragon/hd -add version messages to about and log
>   * qtdragon/hd -fix spindle override quick setting buttons
>   * qtdragon/hd -update version after fixing probing bug
>   * qtplasmac docs: update python serial version
>   * qtplasmac: fix 5th axis buttons
>   * qtplasmac: fix case switching in run from line
>   * qtplasmac: fix gcode filter comments error
>   * qtplasmac: fix imperial cut parameter ranges
>   * qtplasmac: fix power button styling
>   * qtplasmac: fix removal of temporary materials in run from line
>   * qtplasmac: fix run from line code restoration
>   * qtplasmac: fix string formatting and version check
>   * qtplasmac: fix translation error in pmx485_check
>   * qtplasmac: fix updater typo, document update_log.txt
>   * qtplasmac: prevent extra temporary material addition from conversational
>   * qtplasmac: rework versioning due to master branch diverging
>   * qtvcp -add vismach obj files to search, change path from debug to info
>   * qtvcp -auto_height: improve logging/status output
>   * qtvcp -copy panel: update to check for the qtvcp/screens or panels path
>   * qtvcp -docs: the 'copy_dialog' panel changed to just 'copy'
>   * qtvcp -notify: silence annoying error message
>   * qtvcp -probe routines:fix spindle start on error or abort
>   * qtvcp -touchoff_subprogram: fix typos so it works properly.
>   * Restore functionality of NO_PROBE ini settings
>   * revert changes for strncat()
>   * RTAI: Fix build against RTAI+GNU11
>   * snprintf uses %d on a double (issue 2784)
>   * stdglue.py: Fix error on loading stdglue remaps using an R word.
> (The previous code errored on attempted comparison between dict and
> float)
>   * tests: status.state should be checked against command 

Re: [Emc-users] my rpi4

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 at 09:35, gene heskett  wrote:
> 
> > link to how to add that to sources.list please?
> 
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-
> linuxcnc.html#_updates_to_linuxcnc
> 
> --
> atp

Andy,
Although your link shows both preempt-rt for "machine control and simulation"  
verses RTAI for just "machine control" the 'why' is missing. 

If machine control is desired for the AMD64 series processor  it looks like 
either will work.  Why one and not the other?  What's the difference from a 
user perspective?

For the ARM like a Pi then there really is no choice.
Thanks
John



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Re: [Emc-users] OT Fanuc ot-c cpu power supply A16B-1212-0950

[John Dammeyer]

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/48987-trying-to-build-find-a-stmbl


> -Original Message-
> From: Leonardo Marsaglia [mailto:ldmarsag...@gmail.com]
> Sent: December 5, 2023 6:02 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT Fanuc ot-c cpu power supply A16B-1212-0950
> 
> Well, from what I can see on Granite Devices website, their Argon servo
> drives are now discontinued so that eliminates one big possibility for
> replacing the fanuc drives and keep the motors. I don't know if Pico
> systems or MESA has a drive for the power these motors require.
> Although I'm not going to use them nearly as hard as they are capable of...
> 
> El mar, 5 dic 2023 a las 10:15, Leonardo Marsaglia ()
> escribi�:
> 
> > Hello guys, and thanks for all the replies!
> >
> > Well, we swapped the majority of the capacitors on the board and we still
> > get the alarm on the PSU. I'm almost inclined to consider this a LCNC
> > project and start doing the conversion.
> >
> > One thing I'm considering before doing that is if It's possible to use the
> > original Fanuc Servo motors replacing only the drives. I know the drives
> > will not be usable because they communicate with their own Fanuc serial
> > protocol, but maybe there's a chance I can use the same motors.
> >
> > I'm attaching a picture of the X axis motor so you can see. I guess it
> > should be possible to control it, but I don't really know how the encoder
> > works. I know there's a Hostmot encoder module for Fanuc but I don't
> know
> > anything about them so swapping the servo motors is another option too. I
> > have several servo motors here just in case this happened so I can use
> them.
> >
> > Thanks again a lot for your help guys! Sorry that I don't reply
> > individually :)
> >
> > El dom, 3 dic 2023 a las 9:00, gene heskett ()
> > escribi�:
> >
> >> On 12/3/23 04:42, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> >> > If you can obtain/borrow any thermal imaging device, then run with the
> >> PSU
> >> > with covers off and check every 5min. You should identify a cap-thermal
> >> > problem.
> >> >
> >> For that, a $500 ir imager would be nice, but a $29 ir thermometer from
> >> the local lumber yard can do as well. Leonardo might even have one of
> >> those in his toolbox, if only to check his food for adequate cooking. I
> >> do. When I'm on the road, living out of the fridge and microwave of a
> >> motel room.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, 2 Dec 2023 at 21:14, John Dammeyer
> 
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If it is a simple linear power supply, yes they are very easy to debug
> >> >> and
> >> >>> repair,  LIkey it is the caps.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> But switching power supplies are much harder to debug, You can
> guess
> >> it
> >> >>> might be the same issue but these have dozens of parts that can fail..
> >> >> In any
> >> >>> case, the cost to repair is small.
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> I disagree.  Switching power supplies are way more likely to fail from
> >> >> high ESR.  That the system runs for a short while and then fails is
> >> again a
> >> >> symptom of a capacitor overheating due to high ESR.  Or the voltage is
> >> >> right on the edge and as the cap warms up the heat results in a change
> >> that
> >> >> results in the power supply moving out of spec.There may even be
> >> enough
> >> >> heat developed on the board that a solder joint becomes unreliable.
> >> >>
> >> >> In the past even PC motherboards have been repaired by a wholesale
> >> swap of
> >> >> the electrolytics.
> >> >>
> >> >> So what I would do is an initial survey of the electrolytic capacitors
> >> >> inside the power supply and order a set.  That way the machine can
> >> still
> >> >> run for an hour or so a day while you wait for parts from a reputable
> >> >> source.Then replace the capacitor when they arrive.  That won't
> >> prevent
> >> >> the power supply from working again and it may well fix the 1 to 2 hour
> >> >> failure period.  In either case $30 or so worth of caps is cheap.
> >> 

Re: [Emc-users] OT Fanuc ot-c cpu power supply A16B-1212-0950

[John Dammeyer]

Leonardo,
How many defective motors do you have?
Here's the link for the STMB motor drive.
https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl
I don't recall the web site for the forum.  Andy might have that handy.
Might be worthwhile posting on that forum with the motor and encoder 
information.  Someone is likely to have a spare STMBL they could let go if 
indeed it would solve your problem..
John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: December 5, 2023 7:44 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT Fanuc ot-c cpu power supply A16B-1212-0950
> 
> On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 at 13:22, Leonardo Marsaglia 
> wrote:
> 
> > I'm attaching a picture of the X axis motor so you can see. I guess it
> > should be possible to control it, but I don't really know how the encoder
> > works. I know there's a Hostmot encoder module for Fanuc but I don't
> know
> > anything about them
> 
> Can you identify the encoder? If it is Aa64 then the Fanuc hostmot2
> component ought to work.
> https://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#Fanuc%
> 20encoder
> (Others might too)
> 
> The voltage and current are inside the range of the 8i20.
> 
> The 8i20 needs to be externally commutated (In HAL) using the "bldc"
> hal component using the encoder feedback.
> 
> I have been using 8i20s in my mill and lathe for several years with
> few problems.
> 
> The STMBL drive has a Fanuc encoder component:
> https://github.com/rene-dev/stmbl/blob/master/src/comps/encf.c
> and would probably be a very good choice, if you can find any. They
> aren't really available at the moment without making them yourself and
> sourcing discontinued parts.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] OT Fanuc ot-c cpu power supply A16B-1212-0950

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> 
> If it is a simple linear power supply, yes they are very easy to debug and
> repair,  LIkey it is the caps.
> 
> But switching power supplies are much harder to debug, You can guess it
> might be the same issue but these have dozens of parts that can fail..  In any
> case, the cost to repair is small.
> 

I disagree.  Switching power supplies are way more likely to fail from high 
ESR.  That the system runs for a short while and then fails is again a symptom 
of a capacitor overheating due to high ESR.  Or the voltage is right on the 
edge and as the cap warms up the heat results in a change that results in the 
power supply moving out of spec.There may even be enough heat developed on 
the board that a solder joint becomes unreliable.

In the past even PC motherboards have been repaired by a wholesale swap of the 
electrolytics.

So what I would do is an initial survey of the electrolytic capacitors inside 
the power supply and order a set.  That way the machine can still run for an 
hour or so a day while you wait for parts from a reputable source.Then 
replace the capacitor when they arrive.  That won't prevent the power supply 
from working again and it may well fix the 1 to 2 hour failure period.  In 
either case $30 or so worth of caps is cheap.
John



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Re: [Emc-users] OT Fanuc ot-c cpu power supply A16B-1212-0950

[John Dammeyer]

Replace the electrolytic capacitors in the power supply.If you can get
one of these meters  you can verify this is a good solution by measuring the
one of the old ones with a new one.
https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/4001294233271.html

The 3 phase motor controller on our expensive Bosch Fridge failed after 10
years.  Replacing the capacitors put the power supply voltages that ran the
motor control part back to the correct value.  A new capacitor, IIRC, had an
ESR of about 0.5 ohms.  The old one was 30 Ohms.There was no physical
visual indication that there was a problem.  Fridge has been running
perfectly now a year later.

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Leonardo Marsaglia [mailto:ldmarsag...@gmail.com]
> Sent: December 2, 2023 7:58 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] OT Fanuc ot-c cpu power supply A16B-1212-0950
> 
> Hello everybody, I hope you're all doing well!
> 
> Sorry for the OT but I think this is a good place to ask for what I intend
> to do.
> 
> One of our lathes has this Fanuc OT-C with this a16b-1212-0950 power
supply
> which is now failing. I can only use the lathe a couple of hours before
the
> control stops working and the PSU lights its alarm led.
> 
> The main problem is, these PSU are pretty expensive when purchased new,
> and
> the ones refurbished take almost three weeks to arrive in my country.
> 
> So, one of my ideas to keep the lathe running before I completely retrofit
> it to LCNC is to install generic switching PSUs to match the voltages and
> fool the CNC and it's control signals (which I don't know if they are too
> complicated to fool but apparently there are only a couple of pins on the
> PSU for that purpose, so It shouldn't be that complicated).
> 
> Is this nonsense? should I even bother? Because the next step really is to
> adapt the machine to LCNC and forget about all these problems once and for
> all. But if I can manage to fool the control this could be done in a
couple
> of hours.
> 
> Thanks as always for your help guys!
> 
> Leonardo
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Trajectory planning

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Peter Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
> On Thu, 23 Nov 2023, John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > Quick question here.   The HAL file has two time intervals I believe in
> nanoseconds?
> > BASE_PERIOD = 24000
> > SERVO_PERIOD = 100
> >
> > So BASE_PERIOD is about 41.67kHz and SERVO_PERIOD is 1kHz?
> 
> Yes
> >
> > I'm guessing the encoder edges are counted between BASE_PERIOD Ticks
> to determine spindle velocity?  Is that correct?
> Yes
> >
> > That the trajectory planner calculates a new velocity relative to the
> > spindle every SERVO_PERIOD?  In other words the step rate to say the Z
> axis
> > for threading is changed (or left the same) every 1mS.
> Yes
> >
> > Have I got that right?  Just looking for an overall simple description.
> >
> 
> Yep
> 
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics

Thanks Peter.



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[Emc-users] Trajectory planning

[John Dammeyer]

Quick question here.   The HAL file has two time intervals I believe in 
nanoseconds?
BASE_PERIOD = 24000
SERVO_PERIOD = 100

So BASE_PERIOD is about 41.67kHz and SERVO_PERIOD is 1kHz?  

I'm guessing the encoder edges are counted between BASE_PERIOD Ticks to 
determine spindle velocity?  Is that correct? 

That the trajectory planner calculates a new velocity relative to the spindle 
every SERVO_PERIOD?  In other words the step rate to say the Z axis for 
threading is changed (or left the same) every 1mS.

Have I got that right?  Just looking for an overall simple description.

Thanks
John




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Re: [Emc-users] Pi5 + PCIe Mesa card?

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> It looks like it might be possible (but external power supplies need
> to be added)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5VOzO_ERTM


And video card?
John



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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.9 is Released

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> 
> > On 5 Nov 2023, at 05:03, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >
> > How does one upgrade a Pi4 running LinuxCNC without building the OS
> from scratch?
> 
> Have you updated the apt sources to 2.9-uspace ?
> 

How does one update the Pi4 apt sources to 2.9-uspace ?



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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.9 is Released

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks to everyone who worked on this.  I do understand just how much is 
involved to get to a new release.

First question on this subject then.  My LinuxCNC on the Pi4 is 2.8.4 on 
Buster.  A sudo apt-get update does update some files but then says other paths 
won't be valid for 17 days and some hours, minutes and seconds.

Therefore doing a sudo apt-get upgrade again upgrades some files but also 
reports path not found.

How does one upgrade a Pi4 running LinuxCNC without building the OS from 
scratch?

Thanks
John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: November 4, 2023 5:39 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.9 is Released
> 
> LinuxCNC 2.9.1 has been released
> 
> (there was no 2.9.0 release)
> 
> This marks a major new release of LinuxCNC.
> 
> Due to the difficulty of supporting both Python3 and Python2 and
> various out-of-date libraries the 2.9 release of LinuxCNC is only
> supported in Debian Buster or later, Ubuntu Focal and later and
> Rasbian 12 and later. Furthermore we are no longer building any 32-bit
> versions of any packages.
> 
> This update is recommended to all users of supported systems and
> hardware. There may be a final 2.8 release to incorporate new drivers
> and features for those unable to upgrade.
> 
> Abbreviated Changelog:
> (Full changelog at:
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/v2.9.1/debian/changelog
> 
> Merge 150+ pull requests
> Adding Limit_Axis Component
> Added user space HAL component for publishing HAL values to a MQTT
> broker.
> carousel.comp: Add direct position control for stepgen and encoder modes
> Add Mesa 7I94T, 7I97T, 7I76EU, 7i96S card support
> Add scaled sum component.
> Add anglejog component.
> mesa_modbus: New Driver framework
> hal_gpio: Generic GPIO driver for any platform supporting libgpiod
> docs: Add manpage for emccalib
> halcompile: Accept hal pins of type �port�
> G71 - G72 updates
> Add OutM simple output module support
> docs - Hundreds of updates
> Fix �userspace� vs �realtime� nomenclature
> gladevcp: - Many Updates
> glcannon - Many Updates
> gmoccapy - Many, Many Updates
> hal_glib - Several Updates
> halcompile: Add command line arguments to provide compile and link flags
> halscope: Several updats
> homing: Fix for #2169 introduced #2308.
> homing.c: Apply suggested fix for #2629 and #2388 Fix suggested by
> yuyue2013
> hostmot2 bspi: sanity-check that channel echo enable matches receive
> buffer present
> interpmodule: add interpreter.active_spindle property
> interpmodule: fix �speed� property
> Issue #1232: Fixed
> Issue #1747: Fixed
> Issue #2169: Fixed
> Issue #2483. Partially ficed
> limit_axis: - New component
> mb2hal Several Updates
> qt5_graphics - Several Updates
> qtaxis - Several Updates
> qtdagon - 100+ Updates
> qtplasmac - 100+ Updates
> qttouchy -fix sample config loading error, remove MPG selection buttons
> qtvcp - 200+ updates
> qtvcp �mdi_line: fix multi axes movement Addresses Closes: #1053251
> RS274: M5 default to all spindles.
> sims: fix startup issues in axis sims
> sims: fix startup issues in qtvcp sims
> sims: update and tidy qtplasmac sim
> 
> This release contains contributions from the following authors:
> 
> ALatSMT Alec Ari Alexey Starikovskiy Alex Lait alkabal Allan Nordh�y
> Ambr Enzs Andreas Christoffersen Andr� Litfin Andrew Downing
> andrewheeler82 Andrew Kyrychenko Andrii Podanenko andy pugh Arvid
> Brodin Asle N�ss Benson Muite Billy Soto Bob Bond Bruno Lualdi Bryce
> Johnson ButterflyOfFire cascade256 Chad A. Woitas Chadly chris Chris
> Morley Chris Nisbet Chris Radek cnc Colten Edwards Csa s�l Curtis
> Dutton d2inventory Damian Wrobel damiodj Daniel Rogge david Davide
> Cerati ddlu ddotldot DerAndere Dewey Garrett D.L Dmitry S. aka D.L D.
> Mueller Egor Komogortsev ekam230 Ernesto Lo Valvo freddii Greg Carl
> Gunnar Wolf Hakan Kaner Hannah Lau Hans Unzner H�vard F. Aasen H�vard
> Flaget Aasen Horv�th Csaba htasta Ihor Oliinyk issyvarsano Jan Mr�zek
> JanneK Jan Roters jb0 Jeff Epler J�r�mie Tarot Jerry Trantow
> J.M.Garcia John Morris John Thornton Jose Manuel Garcia de Torres
> joseph calderon Juraj Adamkovic Kale Yuzik Klaus Naumann Leonardo
> Daniel Marsaglia luz paz Mark Markus Mark van Doesburg Martin Kaplan
> Mateusz Konieczny Matthew Johnston Matthias Michael Langer Michael
> Stellmacher mk2 Moses McKnight mwork NhanPham nicokid Nicola
> Quargentan nicolas Nikita Shubin noel Norbert Schechner oMtQB4 pc179
> Peter C Wallace Peter M�ller Petr Men��k Petteri Aimonen Petter
> Reinholdtsen Phillip A Carter Rainer Stelzer Rene Hopf Rob Clegg
> Robert W. Ellenberg Robin Szemeti Roguish root rpm-build russellgower
> samcoinc Sascha Ittner Sebastian Kuzminsky simaoamorim snowgoer540
> spike Steffen M�ller sundtek Sync Tim Blume Tinic Uro Toni Laiho Tr?n
> Ng?c Qu�n TRothfelder Ulices whatawhiz yohsuke zz912 ?
>  ??? ??? ??? ??
> 
> 
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a 

Re: [Emc-users] New Beaglebone

[John Dammeyer]

My guess is it doesn't.  At least not directly but likely could have a cape 
built for it that does.  But unless it has the co-processors, like the original 
BBB, to handle say a 5 axis mill and VFD for the spindle I don't see a future 
in it for LCNC.  If the FPGA programming is required for the trajectory side of 
things it falls outside the experience of most people anyway.  The Pi4 with 
MESA 7i92H is cheaper than the BBB.   Aren't there also full blown PC boards 
now available for under $150?

I have 3 BBBs.  One is the 2GB one.   The other two are the 4GB.  One is used 
to emulate with a special cape,  the ST-506 drive on an OS9-68K S100 system.  
Another was slated for use with a Delta 3D printer but the cape died and 
support was zero and now the 3D printer is sitting in a corner getting dusty.  
It was a POS anyway.  The third with machinekit which was also essentially 
discontinued not to mention that the cape liked NO limit switches so a broken 
wire would not stop a motor.

Like all BBB stuff it was pushed on the idea of long term life but in reality I 
have two BBB books from the same author (different editions) and the way to 
deal with the I/O is dramatically different.  And when you use one of the older 
OS versions for say the first book it demonstrates the danger of the internet 
as it currently exists.   The web sites to bring an older version of the OS, 
update and upgrade, no longer exist.   The moment a sudo apt-get update or 
upgrade fails because of path not found or something like that we know we are 
in trouble.

So IMHO, the BBB is not a direction to go.

John

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: November 4, 2023 10:57 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] New Beaglebone
> 
> https://www.beagleboard.org/blog/2023-11-02-beaglev-fire-announcement
> 
> I don't know how usable it will be for LinuxCNC, as I don't know if we
> can compile for RISCV.
> 
> Also, I don't know if it has any video output?
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] X-NUCLEO-IHM03A1 stepper controller

[John Dammeyer]

Here's a bit more information.
https://www.megunolink.com/exclusive/powerstep01-10a-stepper-driver/


> -Original Message-
> From: fxkl47BF--- via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: November 1, 2023 4:38 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)
> Cc: fxkl4...@protonmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] X-NUCLEO-IHM03A1 stepper controller
> 
> On Wed, 1 Nov 2023, gene heskett wrote:
> 
> > On 11/1/23 16:20, fxkl47BF--- via Emc-users wrote:
> >> anyone here have any experience with this controller
> >>
> >> https://www.st.com/en/ecosystems/x-nucleo-ihm03a1.html
> >>
> >> .
> > First: That boards purported intelligence will sure as tunket get
> > between lcnc and its synchronized multi motor control, which will likely
> > cause problems for linuxcnc.
> >
> > Second: the site does not have sufficient actual data to confirm or deny
> > that. Claims are propaganda, we need facts and those are well hidden.
> > Photos are just enough out of focus to hide stuff.
> 
> that's why i ask before i buy :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses?

[John Dammeyer]

OK.  500kHz max step rate.
Max micro-steps/step is 16.  Standard stepper motor has 200 full steps per
rev so that's 3200 steps/rev or 156.25 revs/sec at 500kHz max step rate
which is 9375 RPM.  Yeah right a stepper motor turning that fast.
And their data sheet also states 200-51,200 micro steps in the same line as
16 micro-step resolutions.  

I'd ignore the 50% duty cycle just like I'd ignore their max step rate.  In
fact I'd ignore StepperOnline for closed loop steppers and stay with AC or
DC Servos.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Todd Zuercher [mailto:to...@pgrahamdunn.com]
> Sent: October 25, 2023 8:59 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses?
> 
> Gene,
> 
> The drive is a "closed loop" stepper drive from Steperonline.
> Here is a link to the doc.
> https://www.omc-
> stepperonline.com/index.php?route=product/product/get_file=388/CL
> 57T_V4.0.pdf
> 
> I've yet to actually power one of these up yet.  (Still have a lot more
building
> to do before I'm ready for that.)  But I don't think I'm going to be
asking too
> much of them.  At this point I'm only hoping for at least 1000rpm from
these
> NEMA23 closed loop stepper motors.  (If I can get them to spin faster
great,
> but I won't be upset if they can't do 2000rpm.)
> 
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: gene heskett 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 11:17 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses?
> 
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> 
> On 10/25/23 08:24, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > It is my understanding that the step pulses generated by Mesa cards are
> always the minimum pulse length set by for example
> hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.steplen, only the space between the pulses is varied
> by the step rate, is that correct?
> >
> > I was reading the manual for the new drive I was planning to use in my
next
> build and see that the drive calls a preference of a 50% duty cycle for
step
> pulse inputs.  I am guessing that it may have something to do with how the
> drive's pulse filtering system works, such that for maximum noise
filtering
> and step reliability having the pulse length be approximately equal to the
> step spacing gives the best results.
> >
> > So my questions are;  Would it be possible to make a Mesa card output a
> 50% duty cycle step pattern instead of the current default pattern?  And
> would doing this even be worth the effort?
> >
> Do yopu have a link to that doc?
> 
> In the drives I've played with using a function generator, a near 50%
ratio can
> help when pushing the drive limits, but generally the speed of the opto-
> isolator is the ultimate limit, blurring the pulse into almost
unrecognizable
> signals, slowed by the response times of the opto device used. For real
> dependability at 200 khz and up to the failure of the opto, usually around
> 375khz, trimming a wee bit one side or the other might get a motor with no
> load, just laying on the table some good, getting it upto 2000 revs but
unless
> the motor voltage is also cranked uo, torque to do actual work at that
speed
> is just a dream at 45 volts.
> Some of the nextgen closed loop drivers can use 90-140 volts, overcoming
> the windings inductance much faster, That makes it possible to make usable
> torque at 3000 revs.  Those higher performance transistors do raise the
price
> a bit. Particularly in the 3 phase versions. But they run like casper the
ghost is
> turning the cranks, Quiet.
>   > Todd Zuercher
> > P. Graham Dunn
> >
> Inc. >
> http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/%2Findex.php=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%4
> 0pgrahamdunn.com
> >
> %7C0522ff7789484192c1e808dbd56d7fcc%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806
> fb43
> >
> %7C0%7C0%7C638338438551181150%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIj
> oiMC4wLjAw
> >
> MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%
> 7C
> >
> ta=GD9S6tywNNdc0N2LZQ6I10zMC0BZScL%2FKumvnpWyoz8%3D
> =0>
> > 630 Henry Street
> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >
> >
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses?

[John Dammeyer]

This might be a silly question but if you only want to move it one step then
does the step line stay high?  When does it go low?  After all the next step
might be in 30 minutes so should it go low in 15 minutes?  That's quite the
lookahead.
Enquiring minds wish to know.  ;-)
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
> Sent: October 25, 2023 8:35 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses?
> 
> On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> 
> > Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 15:15:36 +
> > From: Todd Zuercher 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"  us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses?
> >
> > Peter,
> >
> > Thanks, But is it even going to be worth the effort?  Since I'm sure the
> > regular minimum pulse length signal is still going to at least work
albeit
> > with some possible theoretical performance limitations.  I may not even
> > require step rates beyond where this is a non-issue?
> 
> Well since you can certainly get near square waves at the maximum speed
> with the current setup, it doesnt seem that much is gained by always
having
> square wave step signals, since the minimum timings are always met.
> 
> That said, there is an advantage of square wave outputs in simplifying
> setup (since the step length and step space settings are unnecessary)
> 
> >
> > I've asked the drive manufacturer.  See if they get back to me.
> >
> > Todd Zuercher
> > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > 630 Henry Street
> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Peter Wallace 
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 10:36 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)  us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses?
> >
> > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> >
> > On Wed, 25 Oct 2023, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> >
> >> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 12:22:40 +
> >> From: Todd Zuercher 
> >> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> >> 
> >> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> >> 
> >> Subject: [Emc-users] Mesa Step Pulses?
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> It is my understanding that the step pulses generated by Mesa cards
> >> are always the minimum pulse length set by for example
> >> hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.steplen, only the space between the pulses is
> >> varied by the step rate, is that correct?
> >>
> >> I was reading the manual for the new drive I was planning to use in my
> >> next build and see that the drive calls a preference of a 50% duty
> >> cycle for step pulse inputs.  I am guessing that it may have something
> >> to do with how the drive's pulse filtering system works, such that for
> >> maximum noise filtering and step reliability having the pulse length
> >> be approximately equal to the step spacing gives the best results.
> >>
> >> So my questions are;  Would it be possible to make a Mesa card output
> >> a 50% duty cycle step pattern instead of the current default pattern?
> >> And would doing this even be worth the effort?
> >
> > Its possible with a minor firmware change and LinuxCNC driver change to
> enable the mode.
> >
> >>
> >> Todd Zuercher
> >> P. Graham Dunn
> >>
> Inc. >>
> http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/%2Findex.php=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%4
> 0pgrahamdunn.com
> >>
> %7Ce5da628e16d4477d2d4008dbd567e82f%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e08
> 06fb43
> >>
> %7C0%7C0%7C638338414483169698%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIj
> oiMC4wLjAw
> >>
> MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%
> 7C
> >>
> ta=Zwbdv69ESSXKwXR%2FvXYbyijq1wOtyar%2FYeCMJAr6fgg%3D
> =0>
> >> 630 Henry Street
> >> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> >> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://list/
> >> s.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-
> users=05%7C01%7Ctoddz%
> >>
> 40pgrahamdunn.com%7Ce5da628e16d4477d2d4008dbd567e82f%7C5758544c
> 573f47c
> >>
> ebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C638338414483169698%7CUnknown%7CT
> WFpbGZsb3d
> >>
> 8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%
> 3D%7C
> >>
> 3000%7C%7C%7C=f1ssQLGo0gn0%2B2tjHAUXLZOjfsSHNrJWTjJDkkDR
> uAA%3D
> >> eserved=0
> >>
> >
> > Peter Wallace
> > Mesa Electronics
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
> 
> 
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> 

Re: [Emc-users] silly Q #42

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Todd Zuercher [mailto:to...@pgrahamdunn.com]
> 
> A shop vac should be able to run continuously with no hose attached without
> overheating.  However what would overheat one fairly quickly, would be
> running with a restriction in the exhaust.  Perhaps you're muffler is adding
> too much backpressure?
> 
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> 


I agree.  I can run my fake 4HP Sears Shop Vac without the inlet hose connected 
without overheating.  
John



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Re: [Emc-users] silly Q #42

[John Dammeyer]

> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> 
> I blew up old bucket-vac by putting a larger diameter hose on the
> intake.  This raised the air flow and the amps it drew, and apparently
> tripped a one time thermal fuse about 9 minutes into a 12 minute job.
> 
> This one claims 4 hp peak but that is likely only for short term use and
> this may run for a day at a time, possibly even longer. Sucking up swarf
> or saw dust as my go704 works.
> 
> I have no clue how to translate 4hp into the amps I'd see on an Amprobe
> which would equal 4hp on a 125 volt circuit.


I really dislike the term HP to describe equipment as it's so misleading.
We used to joke about Sears HP in shopvacs and compressors.

The simple reality is that the equivalent of 1HP is roughly 750W of
electrical power.  Divide that by 115VAC and you get about 6.5A.  That means
2HP is about 13A. Although your circuit breaker is rated at say 15A you
don't find to many gizmos drawing that.   Think of that space heater that is
1500W.You don't see many 1725W space heaters.

So when buy a shopvac that states 4HP they are lying to you.  What it means
is that for a brief moment as the motor starts turning it draws way more
than the breaker can handle but not long enough to pop the breaker.  That
number may work out to 3000W or 4HP for a fraction of a second but that's
it.

So the important number on the machine is voltage and amperage.  Multiply to
get watts and then derate it to 85% and divide by 750.  Now you have real
continuous HP.

I'm sure someone will come up with a more detailed explanation but
essentially this back of the envelope in ink calculation.
John




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[Emc-users] New Raspberry Pi5 coming.

[John Dammeyer]

This is exciting.  Can't wait to see LinuxCNC running on this.

https://www.elektormagazine.com/articles/raspberry-pi-5-a-first-look

 


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Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.

[John Dammeyer]

Well that was a long journey down a rabbit hole.  I can totally understand
why a number of people on a local metal working group rave about ACORN CNC.

Trying to get gmoccapy to be functional was a huge headache.  This document
reads more like a dictionary or a encyclopedia rather than a getting
started.  The youtube videos assume everything works including the keyboard.

Hmm.  Doesn't show up

The gmoccapy has the word 'keyboard' in the document.  "It has support for
integrated virtual keyboard (onboard or matchbox-keyboard)"  but doesn't say
how to get it.  After many google searches with the search terms including
'keyboard' I finally found a link that explained how to get a keyboard.  
"sudo apt install matchbox-keyboard"  and "sudo apt install onboard" work.

Trouble is, my fingers are way too big for the 10.1" 1280x800 screen
buttons.  Even my cellphone has bigger buttons but only just.

Adjusting say jog speed isn't done by dragging a slider but a large bar
takes up a lot of screen space and the two tiny increment/decrement arrows
are almost invisible.

Where AXIS is somewhat intuitive this one makes no sense to me.Want to
look graphically at a g-code file?  First Power ON has to be green.  Then
you have to go through and make all the axis homed so the DRO values are
green instead of red.  Finally the MDI and Program buttons are enabled and
then at the bottom left is the open file button that brings up what appears
to be an unchangeable presentation of the files.  Would look better if all
the .ngc files were restricted to two letter file names.

So for me gmoccapy gets tossed into the trash bin.  Maybe it should be
called gmocrappy.

Sorry.  I get frustrated when I waste this many hours trying to get
something working.
John

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Re: [Emc-users] Q about angular vel in dro

[John Dammeyer]

> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> 
> On 9/23/23 19:11, andy pugh wrote:
> > On Sat, 23 Sept 2023 at 22:42, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Andy,
> >> Just curious since we have the same harmonic drive and STMBL for the
> 4th axis what max velocity and acceleration are you using.
> >
> > I just checked, and the numbers are very modest. 100 deg/sec and 250
> > deg/sec accel. But the TP will always hit the programmed endpoints
> > regardless of accel settings, as it calculates within them.
> >
> > I don't see the issue that Gene reports because I never home the
> > rotary. There is no point as I have no indexed workholding and there
> > is no need for soft limits.
> >
> > If I need to align a part, I do it in the usual ways, with indicators
> > and probes, and then touch-off for alignment.
> >
> There is another advantage to homing it. Once homed, its much more
> responsive, before homing its speed and accel are very lethargic,
> limited to about 1 rpm and 1/4 turn to get to speed or to get stopped.

Fascinating.  This all prompted me to look again at my harmonic drive
(FHA-24B-6015-E150)  specifications.  Max continuous 60 RPM on the output
with 200V power supply.  I'm running 105V so it's no surprise that I can't
get faster than 30 RPM which, with the 50:1 is 1500 motor RPM before I get
the following errors.

But I really don't understand why any system would need to be homed before
it could run full speed.   

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Q about angular vel in dro

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]


> First, my numbers are for a nema-23 3 phase stepper servo, a closed loop
> setup with an optical encoder on the rear of the motor that feeds the
> controller. All lcnc does is feed it steps.
> 

Gene,
What 3 phase stepper/servo are you using?
John



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Re: [Emc-users] Q about angular vel in dro

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks Andy,


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September 23, 2023 4:09 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Q about angular vel in dro
> 
> On Sat, 23 Sept 2023 at 22:42, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >
> > Andy,
> > Just curious since we have the same harmonic drive and STMBL for the 4th
> axis what max velocity and acceleration are you using.
> 
> I just checked, and the numbers are very modest. 100 deg/sec and 250
> deg/sec accel. But the TP will always hit the programmed endpoints
> regardless of accel settings, as it calculates within them.
> 
> I don't see the issue that Gene reports because I never home the
> rotary. There is no point as I have no indexed workholding and there
> is no need for soft limits.
> 
> If I need to align a part, I do it in the usual ways, with indicators
> and probes, and then touch-off for alignment.
> 


For fun I doubled up my values to match at least the velocity.  The STMBL 
faulted with a following error by about 12 dgrees of rotation.  I'm only 
running the motor with the DC Servo  105VDC supply rather than the rated 
150VDC. (really must finish that power supply one day).  With the settings that 
don't fault it's repeatable for positioning which is probably why I haven't 
bothered with the replacement power supply yet.

I also haven't seen the need for a home switch on the A axis since it 
ultimately will have a collet chuck clamped to the face plate.  Will need to 
indicate and touch off.

Thanks again for the feedback.
John

> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Q about angular vel in dro

[John Dammeyer]

Oops.  Forgot to include my numbers:
[JOINT_3]
TYPE = ANGULAR
HOME = 0.0
FERROR = 1
MIN_FERROR = 0.25
MAX_VELOCITY = 180.0
MAX_ACCELERATION = 720.0
# The values below should be 25% larger than MAX_VELOCITY and MAX_ACCELERATION
# If using BACKLASH compensation STEPGEN_MAXACCEL should be 100% larger.
STEPGEN_MAXVEL = 225.00
STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 900.00
P = 1000.0
I = 0.0
D = 0.0
FF0 = 0.0
FF1 = 1.0
FF2 = 0.0
BIAS = 0.0
DEADBAND = 0.0
MAX_OUTPUT = 0.0

And if I give it an G0 A1440 it does 4 revolutions at an indicated velocity of 
10800.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: September 23, 2023 2:39 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Q about angular vel in dro
> 
> Andy,
> Just curious since we have the same harmonic drive and STMBL for the 4th
> axis what max velocity and acceleration are you using.
> John
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: September 23, 2023 12:26 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Q about angular vel in dro
> >
> > On Sat, 23 Sept 2023 at 13:41, gene heskett 
> wrote:
> >
> > > MAX_VELOCITY= 360.000
> > > MAX_ACCELERATION= 12000
> >
> > v^2 = u^2 + 2as
> >
> > for 360 deg/sec and 12000 accel the overrun on stopping will be v^2 /
> > 2a = 5.4 degrees.
> >
> > Also it's possible that your PID is limiting the responsiveness, or
> > the actual velocity.
> >
> > Try it without the PID?
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > ? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Q about angular vel in dro

[John Dammeyer]

Andy,
Just curious since we have the same harmonic drive and STMBL for the 4th axis 
what max velocity and acceleration are you using.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September 23, 2023 12:26 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Q about angular vel in dro
> 
> On Sat, 23 Sept 2023 at 13:41, gene heskett  wrote:
> 
> > MAX_VELOCITY= 360.000
> > MAX_ACCELERATION= 12000
> 
> v^2 = u^2 + 2as
> 
> for 360 deg/sec and 12000 accel the overrun on stopping will be v^2 /
> 2a = 5.4 degrees.
> 
> Also it's possible that your PID is limiting the responsiveness, or
> the actual velocity.
> 
> Try it without the PID?
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Q, switching machine from inch default to metric (mm's) default?

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Gene,
I don't know enough about the inner workings of LinuxCNC but when I designed
the Electronic Lead Screw for the lathe I made a decision (good or bad) that
the fundamental units would be imperial simply because at the time I didn't
have a metric lathe to test on.  But there was a need for metric lathes or
at least metric motion on an imperial lathe or the other way around.

And unlike the newest electronic gearing systems based on Arduino's there's
no need to edit a file, compile it and download it into the processor to
make it work with specific units.  Just select TPI, imperial pitch or Metric
to define the distance the lead screw moves.  Now since one of those is in
Turns/Inch and the other two are the inverse and inverse scaled the question
is what is actually stored in EEROM memory and how does the system use that.

Although the text file I've included is a bit old and doesn't quite match
the attached photo the concept of dependant parameters is still there.
And the code for the current version for the Leadscrew pitch is below.  The
structure is described in that text file.

What I'm suggesting as a concept is to device one HAL parameter like
ConversionFactor which states which units you are working in.  If the value
is 1.0 then the joint speed is what is in the ini file.  If it's 25.4 then
rate is in mm/min.  Likely you need an inverse flag of sorts too.  At a
higher level menu it's also possible to request display and entry of
distances etc. be done as metric instead of imperial.  Again, internally
everything is done in imperial units but what you see is metric or imperial.


   { // 5 0x05
" LEADSCREW PITCHTPI  PITCHMETRIC",
0,   // Global Variable Array Index
0x08070706,  // Data
0,0,
MENU_TYPE,   // Format
0,   // Pos
0,   // Len
0,   // Dependancy
0,   // Units Position that uses Dependancy for which to display
1.0,  // Conversion Factor
DoNothing,
DoNothing
},
{ // 6 0x06 Store as TPI
" Imperial Leadscrew TPI ",
LEADSCREW_IPITCH_NDX,   // Global Variable Array Index
16.0,// Data
0.1,0,
FLOAT_TYPE,  // Format
8,   // Pos
0x15,// Len
0,   // Dependancy
0,   // Units Position that uses Dependancy for which to display
1.0,  // Conversion Factor
InvertToImperial,   // When storing don't allow 0.0.
InvertToMetric  
},
{ // 7 0x07 Store as TPI
" Imperial Leadscrew Pitch   ",
LEADSCREW_IPITCH_NDX,   // Global Variable Array Index
0.0625,  // Data
0.001,0,
FLOAT_TYPE,  // Format
6,   // Pos
0x37,// Len
0x2E,   // Dependancy on Leadscrew Metric Flag
0,   // Units Position that uses Dependancy for which to display
1.0,  // Conversion Factor
ConvertToImperial,  // Write input value to EEROM as
imperial units.
ConvertToMetric // Pull input back out as imperial
but show as metric.
},
{ // 8 0x08 Store as pitch in imperial units.
" Metric Leadscrew   Pitch   mm  ",
LEADSCREW_IPITCH_NDX,   // Global Variable Array Index
0.01,// Data
0.001,0,
FLOAT_TYPE,  // Format
6,   // Pos
0x27,// Len
0,   // Not dependant since this menu is always metric.
0,   // Units Position that uses Dependancy for which to display
25.4,  // Conversion Factor
DoNothing,  // Write input value to EEROM as
imperial units.
DoNothing   // Pull input back out as imperial
but show as metric.
},

> -Original Message-
> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: September 21, 2023 4:39 PM
> To: Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] Q, switching machine from inch default to metric
(mm's)
> default?
> 
> Greetings said a confused guy;
> 
> If I want to keep the same physical speeds, basically what the machine
> can do, it makes sense the STEP_SCALE in each axis gets divided by 25.4
> to make it a mm machine.
> 
> But when I've done that the machine moves extremely slow, and throws a
> following error when it has moved by about the amount set in FERROR
> and/or MIN_ERROR. What else besides the MAXVELS and ACCEL's need
> massaging, as it makes sense they should be multiplied by 25.4.  Which I
> did, but then it tries to move at several hundred mm/sec & crashes into
> all the stops.
> 
> Another problem, what is the input resistance load of a 7i76D when its
> set for 12 volt logic. I am using a prox switch for a home switch on
> this new A axis. I get 12 volts  back from the prox switch when
> triggered, and the prox switch is rated for srcing 300 milliamps when
> triggered, but when I hook it up to 

Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.

[John Dammeyer]

Unplugged the 7i92 and counted to 10.  Plugged it in and counted to 10 and
then ran the same PNCconf generated gmoccapy version.  Screen shot shows
it's running.  Now to find out what's different between the HAL and INI
files on mine.
Although the first question which is not intuitively obvious is how to load
a G-Code program.  Guess I have to read the instructions.  At least this
will give me an opportunity to become familiar with the gmoccapy interface.
Does appear to be very extensicve.
John
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Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.

[John Dammeyer]

I ran PNCconf for a new configuration this time specifying gmoccapy still using 
the 7i92 as the Ethernet link.  For some reason it fails to talk to the 7i92 
but what's interesting is it generated the need for EMBED_TAB and the COMMAND.

DISPLAY = gmoccapy
EMBED_TAB_NAME = Center_panel
EMBED_TAB_LOCATION = ntb_preview
EMBED_TAB_COMMAND = gladevcp -c gladevcp  -H gvcp_call_list.hal -x {XID} 
gvcp-panel.ui
POSITION_OFFSET = RELATIVE
POSITION_FEEDBACK = ACTUAL

Mine doesn't have that.

[DISPLAY]
# DISPLAY = axis
DISPLAY = gmoccapy
POSITION_OFFSET = RELATIVE
POSITION_FEEDBACK = ACTUAL


And the gvcp_call_list.hal has an include for gvcp_options.hal which has
#  Setup of spindle speed display using gladevcp 

net spindle-fb-rpm-abs-filtered   =>   gladevcp.spindle-speed
net spindle-at-speed=>gladevcp.spindle-at-speed-led
#  Setup GLADE MDI buttons 
net machine-is-on  =>gladevcp.button-box-active


I'm guessing at this point that changing user interface isn't as easy as just 
switching which screen set.  Instead it looks like I have to start over to 
first get something that actually launches more than just the Spindle Speed 
window which then vanishes and is replaced with the error list.

John


> -Original Message-----
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: September 20, 2023 5:22 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.
> 
> Stated in that report file is 2.8.4.
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: September 20, 2023 5:11 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.
> >
> > On Thu, 21 Sept 2023 at 01:07, John Dammeyer 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The original ERROR is also still there.
> >
> > Which LinuxCNC version?
> >
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > ? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.

[John Dammeyer]

Stated in that report file is 2.8.4.


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September 20, 2023 5:11 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.
> 
> On Thu, 21 Sept 2023 at 01:07, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > The original ERROR is also still there.
> 
> Which LinuxCNC version?
> 
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Andy,
My search of the cache returned this.
pi@linuxcnc:~ $ sudo apt-cache search python-gst
python-gst-1.0 - GStreamer GObject Introspection overrides for Python
python-gst-1.0-dbg - GStreamer GObject Introspection overrides for Python 
(debug extensions)
pi@linuxcnc:~ $

Trying it anyway shows it's already there.

pi@linuxcnc:~ $ sudo apt-get install python-gst-1.0
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
python-gst-1.0 is already the newest version (1.14.4-1).
python-gst-1.0 set to manually installed.
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
  libpipewire-0.2-1 lxplug-volume xdg-desktop-portal xdg-desktop-portal-gtk
Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 33 not upgraded.

The original ERROR is also still there.  I tried commenting out:
PYVCP = pyvcp-panel.xml
But that didn't work either.  I've attached the ini file.  Perhaps you can spot 
something in there that is causing this.  Odd too since the documentation page 
for gmoccapy states that Rev 2.8 has everything installed automatically for 
this.  So something I added for AXIS must be screwing this up.

Thanks
John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September 20, 2023 4:36 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.
> 
> On Wed, 20 Sept 2023 at 23:36, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > E: Unable to locate package python-gst
> 
> Maybe python3-gst ?
> 
> sudo apt-cache search python-gst
> 
> Gives python-gst-1.0
> 
> So you could try that too.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


G3616-Pi4.ini
Description: Binary data
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Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.

[John Dammeyer]

So this didn't work after an sudo apt-get update.

pi@linuxcnc:~ $ sudo apt-get install python-gst
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
E: Unable to locate package python-gst



> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September 20, 2023 1:50 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.
> 
> On Wed, 20 Sept 2023 at 06:47, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> >  PYGST libray not installed? 
> >  is python-gstX.XX installed? 
> 
> > Not sure how to solve the above error.
> 
> Install python-gst, either with the synaptic package manager, or sudo
> apt-get install python-gst
> 
> >  Pin 'pyvcp.spindle-speed' does not exist
> 
> This will just be because the GUI did not load due to the first error.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.

[John Dammeyer]

And this on the Pi4 LinuxCNC system

pi@linuxcnc:~ $ dpkg -l | grep gstream*
ii  gir1.2-gstreamer-1.0:armhf   1.14.4-1   
  armhfGObject introspection data for the GStreamer library
ii  gstreamer1.0-alsa:armhf  1.14.4-2+deb10u2   
  armhfGStreamer plugin for ALSA
ii  gstreamer1.0-libav:armhf 
1.15.0.1+git20180723+db823502-2+deb10u1  armhflibav plugin for GStreamer
ii  gstreamer1.0-omx 1.14.4-1+rpt1  
  armhfGStreamer OpenMAX plugins
ii  gstreamer1.0-omx-rpi 1.14.4-1+rpt1  
  armhfOpenMax plugins for GStreamer
ii  gstreamer1.0-omx-rpi-config  1.14.4-1+rpt1  
  armhfOpenMax plugins for GStreamer
ii  gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad:armhf   1.14.4-1+rvt+deb10u3   
  armhfGStreamer plugins from the "bad" set
ii  gstreamer1.0-plugins-base:armhf  1.14.4-2+deb10u2   
  armhfGStreamer plugins from the "base" set
ii  gstreamer1.0-plugins-good:armhf  1.14.4-1+rpt1+deb10u3  
  armhfGStreamer plugins from the "good" set
ii  gstreamer1.0-tools   1.14.4-1   
  armhfTools for use with GStreamer
ii  gstreamer1.0-x:armhf 1.14.4-2+deb10u2   
  armhfGStreamer plugins for X11 and Pango
ii  libgstreamer-gl1.0-0:armhf   1.14.4-2+deb10u2   
  armhfGStreamer GL libraries
ii  libgstreamer-plugins-bad1.0-0:armhf  1.14.4-1+rvt+deb10u3   
  armhfGStreamer libraries from the "bad" set
ii  libgstreamer-plugins-base1.0-0:armhf 1.14.4-2+deb10u2   
  armhfGStreamer libraries from the "base" set
ii  libgstreamer1.0-0:armhf  1.14.4-1   
  armhfCore GStreamer libraries and elements
pi@linuxcnc:~ $


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September 20, 2023 1:50 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.
> 
> On Wed, 20 Sept 2023 at 06:47, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> >  PYGST libray not installed? 
> >  is python-gstX.XX installed? 
> 
> > Not sure how to solve the above error.
> 
> Install python-gst, either with the synaptic package manager, or sudo
> apt-get install python-gst
> 
> >  Pin 'pyvcp.spindle-speed' does not exist
> 
> This will just be because the GUI did not load due to the first error.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.

[John Dammeyer]

Doesn't look like it's going to be as easy as just DISPLAY=gmoccapy
The page here gives a lot of information but I'm not clear on what I'm missing.
https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/gmoccapy.html#_requirements

However I've not found a migration tutorial.  The first try at this failed 
running on a Pi4 LinuxCNC with AXIS 2.8.4.
Here's the first ERROR:

---
ERROR, trying to initialize the user tabs or panels, check for typos
['notebook_mode', 'notebook_mode']
 GMOCCAPY INFO 
 no audio available! 
 PYGST libray not installed? 
 is python-gstX.XX installed? 
--

Not sure how to solve the above error.

And a bit further down

--
Debug file information:
Note: Using POSIX realtime
/usr/bin/gmoccapy:312: GtkWarning: Invalid icon size 48

  self.widgets.window1.show()

(gmoccapy:9059): GtkSourceView-CRITICAL **: 22:37:23.979: 
gtk_source_language_manager_set_search_path: assertion 'lm->priv->ids == NULL' 
failed
pyvcp_options.hal:7: Pin 'pyvcp.spindle-speed' does not exist
9010
9056
Stopping realtime threads
Unloading hal components
Note: Using POSIX realtime
--

I've attached the report file.I'm guessing that the statement in my ini file
PYVCP = pyvcp-panel.xml
Is likely not legal for gmoccapy?


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September 18, 2023 11:26 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.
> 
> On Mon, 18 Sept 2023 at 19:05, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > For the touch screen AXIS isn't really the best UI.  I'm looking for
> suggestions for a better one and how to incorporate it.
> 
> Try them all? In many cases all you need to change is the DISPLAY = in the 
> INI.
> 
> I use Touchy, which is a dedicated touch-screen interface. It doesn't
> (by default) have a graphical preview, though.
> 
> But Gmoccapy and a few others have been designed from the outset for
> touchscreen operation.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Error report created by /usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc/show_errors.tcl:

Print file information:
RUN_IN_PLACE=no
LINUXCNC_DIR=
LINUXCNC_BIN_DIR=/usr/bin
LINUXCNC_TCL_DIR=/usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc
LINUXCNC_SCRIPT_DIR=
LINUXCNC_RTLIB_DIR=/usr/lib/linuxcnc/modules
LINUXCNC_CONFIG_DIR=
LINUXCNC_LANG_DIR=/usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc/msgs
INIVAR=inivar
HALCMD=halcmd
LINUXCNC_EMCSH=/usr/bin/wish8.6
LINUXCNC - 2.8.4
Machine configuration directory is '/home/pi/linuxcnc/configs/G3616-Pi4'
Machine configuration file is 'G3616-Pi4.ini'
INIFILE=/home/pi/linuxcnc/configs/G3616-Pi4/G3616-Pi4.ini
VERSION=1.1
PARAMETER_FILE=linuxcnc.var
TASK=milltask
HALUI=halui
DISPLAY=gmoccapy
COORDINATES=XYZA
KINEMATICS=trivkins coordinates=XYZA
Starting LinuxCNC...
Starting LinuxCNC server program: linuxcncsvr
Loading Real Time OS, RTAPI, and HAL_LIB modules
Starting LinuxCNC IO program: io
Starting HAL User Interface program: halui
Found file(REL): ./G3616-Pi4.hal
Found file(REL): ./custom.hal
Starting TASK program: milltask
Starting DISPLAY program: gmoccapy
(0, ' = ', '/usr/bin/gmoccapy')
(1, ' = ', '-ini')
(2, ' = ', '/home/pi/linuxcnc/configs/G3616-Pi4/G3616-Pi4.ini')
Entry = trivkins
Entry = coordinates=XYZA
found the following coordinates xyza

 GMOCCAPY GETINIINFO  
Number of joints = 4
4 COORDINATES found = xyza
joint 0 = axis x
joint 1 = axis y
joint 2 = axis z
joint 3 = axis a
{0: 'x', 1: 'y', 2: 'z', 3: 'a'}

 GMOCCAPY GETINIINFO  

[KINS] KINESTYPE is trivkins
 GMOCCAPY GETINIINFO  
No MAX_RAPID_OVERRIDE entry found in [DISPLAY] of INI file 
 Default settings 100 % applied!
 GMOCCAPY GETINIINFO  
Preference file path: /home/pi/linuxcnc/configs/G3616-Pi4/G3616-Pi4.pref
 GMOCCAPY GETINIINFO  
 No DEFAULT_SPINDLE_SPEED entry found in [DISPLAY] of INI file
 GMOCCAPY INFO 
 found valid probe config in INI File 
 will use auto tool measurement 
 GMOCCAPY INFO 
 Entering make_DRO
axis_list = ['x', 'y', 'z', 'a']
 GMOCCAPY INFO 
 Entering make ref axis button
('Filepath = ', '/usr/share/gmoccapy/images/ref_all.png')
('Filepath = ', '/usr/share/gmoccapy/images/ref_x.png')
('Filepath = ', '/usr/share/gmoccapy/

[Emc-users] Touch screen interface.

[John Dammeyer]

I've accumulated this set of parts for a simple LinuxCNC system and have been 
developing my power drawbar etc. control via CAN bus using the CANUSB.  I did a 
quick spreadsheet to figure out costs including the new touch screen.

Qty Description 
 US$ Cdn$ $Cdn Total
-
1 Raspberry Pi4, Heatsink and AC adaptor
  139   139
1 MESA 7I92TH   
109 150   150
2 MACH3 CNC Interface Board 
8 16
1 unFounder 10.1" HDMI 1280x800 LCD Touchscreen for Pi4  170   170
1 Logitech MK270 keyboard 
   4040

 -
SubTotal
  515
1 CANUSB
 110 154   154

=
Total   
  669

For the touch screen AXIS isn't really the best UI.  I'm looking for 
suggestions for a better one and how to incorporate it.  Especially since I 
have some code written to create the panel for the mister PWM and two 
indicators for the draw bar position along with the serial port control of the 
CANUSB.

Thanks
John
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Re: [Emc-users] STMBL forum

[John Dammeyer]

The user interface looks different but historically it does have messages I 
posted so must be right.  I was forced to upgrade my WIN-7 system to WIN-10 
last spring and so many things broke after that.  Still living with the after 
effects of the Microsoft virus called WIN-10.
Thanks
John

> -Original Message-
> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September 3, 2023 1:31 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] STMBL forum
> 
> This?
> 
> https://app.gitter.im/#/room/#rene-dev_stmbl:gitter.im
> 
> sam
> 
> On Sun, Sep 3, 2023 at 3:15�PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > I've misplaced my link to the STMBL forum.
> > Can someone direct me?
> > Thanks
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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[Emc-users] STMBL forum

[John Dammeyer]

I've misplaced my link to the STMBL forum.  
Can someone direct me?
Thanks
John




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Re: [Emc-users] Reverse Pulse Control on Dust Collectors

[John Dammeyer]

I'm not ready with this code to distribute it as a project.  I haven't touched 
it for almost 2 years.   To put it out as a project means writing a user manual 
and far more comprehensive information on CANopen. 

My point of making the python and hal info available was to show that it's 
pretty easy to integrate some sort of serial port control into linuxCNC.

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August 22, 2023 4:50 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Reverse Pulse Control on Dust Collectors
> 
> The best way to distribute stuff like Python source code is to place it on
> GitHub and then every time you update it, send out a notice to tell people
> what�s new and where it is.
> 
> GitHub is a free service and it offers more than just a place to store code.  
> It
> also offers bug tracking and a forum and you can even build a simple web
> page.
> 
> 
> 
> > On Aug 22, 2023, at 9:59 AM, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >
> > I tried to send some python source code, an xml and text file as
> > attachments, both as the files and in a zip and got the attachment
> > blacklisted reply.  Is there another way so everyone on the list can get the
> > attachment.  I can put it on my web site but eventually it will disappear
> > rather than end up in archives.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Reverse Pulse Control on Dust Collectors

[John Dammeyer]

Earl,
Yes.  My zip file with the Python code and xml for the pyvcp_options are now 
here:
http://www.autoartisans.com/CAN/LinuxCANopen.zip
I was suggesting CAN bus only because I've been using it since 1992 and so for 
me it's pretty easy.  But the example was more to show how you can send 
commands through a serial port to a device.  If it's a CANUSB then the serial 
information is formatted to create CAN message.  If it's MODBUS the information 
is formatted to create MODBUS messages.

Here's an example of Arduino code for Modbus.
https://docs.arduino.cc/learn/communication/modbus

This is one of the things I found searching LinuxCNC and MODBUS.
https://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/mb2hal.html

It likely should be pretty easy in LinuxCNC.  In MACH3 it was almost trivial to 
talk to MODBUS devices.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: Earl Weaver [mailto:weaverst...@frontier.com]
> Sent: August 22, 2023 1:34 PM
> To: John Dammeyer; emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Reverse Pulse Control on Dust Collectors
> 
> 
> John,
> So if I understand you correctly, you are suggesting using
> LinuxCNC computer to communicate via CANBUS or MODBUS
> long distance remotely with the dust collectors?
> 
> The way I have it set up is: The dust collectors are suspended from the
> ceiling,
> but I have all the solenoid wires coming to a central location
> electrical panel
> that also holds the VFD's for starting and stopping the motors.
> I run the VFD's at half speed while doing the reverse pulse.
> So all the pulse control can be at the central electrical panel.
> 
> -Earl
> 
> On 8/22/2023 11:59 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Earl,
> > I tried to send this to the list but both the xml and zip files resulted in
> > black listed attachment messages.
> > John.
> >
> > Although I haven't touched this for almost 2 years and only tested on Pi4
> > LinuxCNC on the benchtop one approach to dealing with external hardware
> is
> > CAN bus using the CANopen protocol.  Attached is my source code for that.
> > Eventually I will do a far more extensive write-up on how to interface to
> > CAN bus and LinuxCNC.  Especially using a Pi with a CAN Hat instead of the
> > serial port and the LAWICEL CANUSB dongle.
> >
> > Alternatively there are examples out there for MODBUS and I'm sure you
> can
> > find Arduino code that makes an Arduino a MODBUS module.
> >
> > John Dammeyer
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Earl Weaver [mailto:weaverst...@frontier.com]
> >> Sent: August 22, 2023 8:41 AM
> >> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> Subject: [Emc-users] Reverse Pulse Control on Dust Collectors
> >>
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> Does anyone have suggestions what would be a good option
> >> for reverse pulse control on my dust collectors?
> >>
> >> I have 3 separate dust collectors that use (two each) air solenoid valves
> >> to give the filters an alternating 100 millisecond (1/10 second) pulse
> >> to remove the dust from the filters.
> >> I have solid state switch relays (triac) to pulse the 120 volt AC
> >> solenoid valves.
> >>
> >> I already have this setup on my LinuxCNC Plasma cutter and have it
> >> working with ClassicLadder in LinuxCNC.
> >> It seems somewhat overkill to use a full LinuxCNC setup to control these
> >> other three dust collectors.
> >>
> >> Would a micro-controller like Arduino be a better solution?
> >> I have no experience with Arduino.
> >>
> >> What about a PLC?
> >>
> >> Any input, or suggestions?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Earl
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] Reverse Pulse Control on Dust Collectors

[John Dammeyer]

I'll put the custom.hal file in the zip later today and update it on my web 
site.  Again this is just one of many ways to do this.

# Include your custom HAL commands here
# This file will not be overwritten when you run PNCconf again

# Bring in the CANopen xIM board
loadusr -Wn serial-relays ./serial-relays.py

# Pass Operational State to the CAN devices.
net machine-is-enabled => serial-relays.OpState

net coolant-mist <= iocontrol.0.coolant-mist
net coolant-flood <= iocontrol.0.coolant-flood

net coolant-mist => serial-relays.relay1C
net coolant-flood => serial-relays.relay1D

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Earl Weaver [mailto:weaverst...@frontier.com]
> Sent: August 22, 2023 1:34 PM
> To: John Dammeyer; emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Reverse Pulse Control on Dust Collectors
> 
> 
> John,
> So if I understand you correctly, you are suggesting using
> LinuxCNC computer to communicate via CANBUS or MODBUS
> long distance remotely with the dust collectors?
> 
> The way I have it set up is: The dust collectors are suspended from the
> ceiling,
> but I have all the solenoid wires coming to a central location
> electrical panel
> that also holds the VFD's for starting and stopping the motors.
> I run the VFD's at half speed while doing the reverse pulse.
> So all the pulse control can be at the central electrical panel.
> 
> -Earl
> 
> On 8/22/2023 11:59 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Earl,
> > I tried to send this to the list but both the xml and zip files resulted in
> > black listed attachment messages.
> > John.
> >
> > Although I haven't touched this for almost 2 years and only tested on Pi4
> > LinuxCNC on the benchtop one approach to dealing with external hardware
> is
> > CAN bus using the CANopen protocol.  Attached is my source code for that.
> > Eventually I will do a far more extensive write-up on how to interface to
> > CAN bus and LinuxCNC.  Especially using a Pi with a CAN Hat instead of the
> > serial port and the LAWICEL CANUSB dongle.
> >
> > Alternatively there are examples out there for MODBUS and I'm sure you
> can
> > find Arduino code that makes an Arduino a MODBUS module.
> >
> > John Dammeyer
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Earl Weaver [mailto:weaverst...@frontier.com]
> >> Sent: August 22, 2023 8:41 AM
> >> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> Subject: [Emc-users] Reverse Pulse Control on Dust Collectors
> >>
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> Does anyone have suggestions what would be a good option
> >> for reverse pulse control on my dust collectors?
> >>
> >> I have 3 separate dust collectors that use (two each) air solenoid valves
> >> to give the filters an alternating 100 millisecond (1/10 second) pulse
> >> to remove the dust from the filters.
> >> I have solid state switch relays (triac) to pulse the 120 volt AC
> >> solenoid valves.
> >>
> >> I already have this setup on my LinuxCNC Plasma cutter and have it
> >> working with ClassicLadder in LinuxCNC.
> >> It seems somewhat overkill to use a full LinuxCNC setup to control these
> >> other three dust collectors.
> >>
> >> Would a micro-controller like Arduino be a better solution?
> >> I have no experience with Arduino.
> >>
> >> What about a PLC?
> >>
> >> Any input, or suggestions?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Earl
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] Reverse Pulse Control on Dust Collectors

[John Dammeyer]

I tried to send some python source code, an xml and text file as
attachments, both as the files and in a zip and got the attachment
blacklisted reply.  Is there another way so everyone on the list can get the
attachment.  I can put it on my web site but eventually it will disappear
rather than end up in archives.

John Dammeyer

> -Original Message-
> From: Earl Weaver [mailto:weaverst...@frontier.com]
> Sent: August 22, 2023 8:41 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] Reverse Pulse Control on Dust Collectors
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Does anyone have suggestions what would be a good option
> for reverse pulse control on my dust collectors?
> 
> I have 3 separate dust collectors that use (two each) air solenoid valves
> to give the filters an alternating 100 millisecond (1/10 second) pulse
> to remove the dust from the filters.
> I have solid state switch relays (triac) to pulse the 120 volt AC
> solenoid valves.
> 
> I already have this setup on my LinuxCNC Plasma cutter and have it
> working with ClassicLadder in LinuxCNC.
> It seems somewhat overkill to use a full LinuxCNC setup to control these
> other three dust collectors.
> 
> Would a micro-controller like Arduino be a better solution?
> I have no experience with Arduino.
> 
> What about a PLC?
> 
> Any input, or suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> Earl
> --
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rigid tapping

[John Dammeyer]

What does this actually do assuming I using  the latest master?
net spindle-revs<=   hm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.position-interpolated

I'd guess that if the spindle encoder is  such that on each servo period event, 
 that if the position of the encoder isn't electrically determined by another 
encoder edge,  then a calculated value based on where the system thinks it is 
will be reported as the position. 
John

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August 15, 2023 1:03 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rigid tapping
> 
> On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 at 01:11, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > It's why I'm filtering.  And yes. I agree, at this slow a speed I suspect
> > what I will find is two different velocities reported from edge to edge.
> 
> Rigid tapping uses the encoder-position, not the encoder velocity.
> 
> (And I wouldn't suggest filtering that in the HAL)
> 
> If you are using the latest master then you will have a pin
> ...position-interpolated that you can substitute into this line:
> net spindle-revs <=   hm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.position
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rigid tapping

[John Dammeyer]

Yes.  That's way faster tapping than I've done.  I'm going to have to try
tapping that quickly just to keep up.  ;-)
But I'm not so concerned about being able to tap slowly.  Just that I want
to see the behaviour and how the trajectory planner handles hand turning the
spindle and have the Z axis track.   
Now seeing the waveforms from the velocity out over the MESA board I can see
why the Z axis would have that start/stop feel.  
John

> -Original Message-
> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August 14, 2023 9:09 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rigid tapping
> 
> Would you ever be tapping that slow?   If you are - then yes - higher
> resolution or try interpolation..  (Will that be bad in rigid tapping
> reversals?  Threading on a lathe interpolation works great - but that is
> one direction...). The green machine had a gear tooth encoder - about 40
> ish teeth.  I never tried running it that slow rigid tapping - but I did
> initially use it for non-circular boring.  It did OK at around 10 to 50
rpm
> but you certainly could see the resolution in the cut..  I did rigid tap
> with it - but pretty high rpm with no issues..
> 
> https://youtu.be/F7QulGiMt20
> 
> On Mon, Aug 14, 2023, 10:50 PM Chris Albertson
> 
> wrote:
> 
> > I think with encoders that are not symmetric 50/50, you need to look
only
> > at the leading edges. (Or only at the trailing edges)
> >
> > Yes,this cuts the resulution in half but removes the nose.I think
for
> > somethig with a lot of rotational inertia, like a spindle, you can use
> > interpolation to get all the resolution you need.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rigid tapping

[John Dammeyer]

How would that be done in the HAL file?

And BTW, Peter could probably explain why but when I bumped the RPM up to
100 and then looked at the velocity output and it mirrored the 1 RPM
velocity profile.  Just at higher rate.I'm guessing that even though the
HAL rate is 1mS inside the MESA it's likely 10x or even 100x that so we get
a way more detailed waveform that then is repeatable 1mS interval in
LinuxCNC.

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August 14, 2023 8:47 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rigid tapping
> 
> I think with encoders that are not symmetric 50/50, you need to look only
at
> the leading edges. (Or only at the trailing edges)
> 
> Yes,this cuts the resulution in half but removes the nose.I think for
> somethig with a lot of rotational inertia, like a spindle, you can use
> interpolation to get all the resolution you need.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rigid tapping

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Gene,
It's why I'm filtering.  And yes. I agree, at this slow a speed I suspect
what I will find is two different velocities reported from edge to edge.
I'm guessing when the speed is fast (small gap) then a faster than required
distance/vel is implemented.   Then on the next wider pulse it's gone too
far and now the drive stops because it has overshot.

I'm guessing.
I'll let you know.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: August 14, 2023 1:31 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rigid tapping
> 
> On 8/14/23 15:53, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > This thread has some good information about this
> >
> > https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/message/34363029/
> >
> >
> >
> > For interest sake I set my mill up to turn 1 RPS with my 60 tooth
> > non-symmetrical encoder (4mm slots, 2.5mm teeth) and then ran the
> power
> > tapping G-Code to see what the knee Z axis would do.
> >
> >
> >
> > What I found is that it moved in short spurts.  Putting my finger on the
> > knee and against the column it still appeared to move rather slowly with
> > less of a jerk.  All this makes sense of course.
> >
> Something might be off in the quadrature accuracy. Do you have a dual
> trace triggered scope?  That will likely be quite helpful. 60 teeth,
> non-symetrical is going to generate a horrific amount of quantization
> noise because neither waveform is going to be a 50/50 ratio in the time
> domain. I got rid of all signs of that by putting my $20 Omron encoder
> encoder on the rear of the spindle MOTOR, making and index pulse
> generator on the spindle with a glued on screw and an ATS-667 hall
> device, and tally switches on the heads gearshift knob to electronically
> change gears. So the SCALE changes with the gearshift knob.  And I can
> run the pid's Pgain above 20.
> 
> >
> > My servo period is 100 nanoseconds or 1 ms.  At 1 RPM that's one
> tooth
> > every second or 4 encoder edges per second meaning one edge every
> 250mS.
> > That's 250 servo periods.  What I think I'm seeing is that every 250
servo
> > periods the system detects the encoder edge and knows it's moved
> 1/240th of
> > the 20 TPI thread. (0.000208333")  So it tells the Z axis to move that
same
> > distance and I suspect the velocity setting of 0.000208/250mS.
> >
> >
> >
> > Does that make sense?  Is there a way to log each Z axis speed/distance
> > command so I can see what it's doing?
> >
> >
> >
> > Or have I misunderstood how the power tapping synchronized motion is
> done.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > .
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rigid tapping

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Andy,
I don't know.  How can I tell?  The encoder is connected to the MESA 7i92H and 
according to my documentation is noisy so needs to be filtered.  In either case 
it looks like the MESA board is providing Velocity and Position.  I'd make a 
guess that based on its own internal clock it would provide a usable velocity. 

The problem, and might only be fixed in hardware is when I made the disk I used 
a 4mm mill instead of the 3mm called for in the G-Code. Didn't notice until the 
second slot at which point it was already too late.  I'd guess at this slow a 
speed that the encoder will provide two different speeds between quadrature 
edges.  

Must really fix that.

Here's some of the HAL file if that helps.
John


# This machine has a spindle so we need one of those.
loadrt abs names=abs.spindle
# and the encoder can be noisy so filter out high frequency noise.
loadrt lowpass names=lowpass.spindle
# and convert the number of lines to RPS.
loadrt scale names=scale.spindle
# load real time a limit2 and a near with names so it is easier to follow
loadrt limit2 names=spindle-ramp
loadrt near names=spindle-near-speed

#***
#  SPINDLE S
#***
#===
# SPINDLE ENCODER
# Hardware assumptions:
#An encoder is connected to the spindle and puts out 60 pulses per 
revolution on phase A
#The encoder A phase is connected to the DB25 #2 Pin 11
#The encoder B phase is connected to the DB25 #2 Pin 12
#The encoder index pulse is connected to DB25 #2 Pin 13

# ---Encoder feedback signals/setup---
setphm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.counter-mode 0
setphm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.filter 1
setphm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.index-invert 1
setphm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.index-mask 0
setphm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.index-mask-invert 0
setphm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.scale  [SPINDLE_9]ENCODER_SCALE


# couple the encoder output to the motion control system so it knows what the 
spindle is doing.
net spindle-revs <=   hm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.position
net spindle-vel-fb-rps   <=   hm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.velocity
net spindle-index-enable <=>  hm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.index-enable


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August 14, 2023 1:06 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rigid tapping
> 
> On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 at 20:57, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> > What I found is that it moved in short spurts.
> 
> Are you using straight encoder position, or position-interpolated?
> (this might not be an option depending on what is counting the encoder
> pulses)
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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[Emc-users] Rigid tapping

[John Dammeyer]

This thread has some good information about this

https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/message/34363029/

 

For interest sake I set my mill up to turn 1 RPS with my 60 tooth
non-symmetrical encoder (4mm slots, 2.5mm teeth) and then ran the power
tapping G-Code to see what the knee Z axis would do.

 

What I found is that it moved in short spurts.  Putting my finger on the
knee and against the column it still appeared to move rather slowly with
less of a jerk.  All this makes sense of course.

 

My servo period is 100 nanoseconds or 1 ms.  At 1 RPM that's one tooth
every second or 4 encoder edges per second meaning one edge every 250mS.
That's 250 servo periods.  What I think I'm seeing is that every 250 servo
periods the system detects the encoder edge and knows it's moved 1/240th of
the 20 TPI thread. (0.000208333")  So it tells the Z axis to move that same
distance and I suspect the velocity setting of 0.000208/250mS.

 

Does that make sense?  Is there a way to log each Z axis speed/distance
command so I can see what it's doing?

 

Or have I misunderstood how the power tapping synchronized motion is done.

Thanks

John

 

 


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Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor

[John Dammeyer]

I don't recall if I finished off this thread with a report on the results.
Here's a photo of how it worked out.  I connected the encoder to a
dsPIC33ch128mp504 which was on a PIM installed into the Microchip Explorer
16 development board.  I used my ELS to run the motor and encoder pulses
were nicely formed and the dsPIC software reported both position and RPM.  I
have a photo of that setup but it's too large for the forum.

Looking at other stepper motors (size 23) I see that many don't even have
the holes this motor has for mounting a plate so Roland's idea might be
better.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Roland Jollivet [mailto:roland.jolli...@gmail.com]
> Sent: June 26, 2023 10:17 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor
> 
> You have such a large flat surface area there. Design an encoder mount
> plate of similar size where the end result is also has a flat surface.
> 
> Rough and clean the back of the motor up, then use a decent polyurethane
> adhesive to bond it on. During the setup you could use a jig to keep it
> concentric with the shaft.
> Design it in such a way that you can still replace the encoder if need be.
> 
> Roland
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 25 Jun 2023 at 05:31, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > I want to add an encoder onto the back of this stepper motor.  I can
> > install
> > either a US Digital or a CUI since both mounting flanges can extend out
> > near
> > the edges of the back mounting plate.
> >
> >
> >
> > Is there any reason I can't clamp the motor in a vice and pop in two
holes
> > and tap them with a bottom tap at the spacing of the mounting flange?
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency

[John Dammeyer]

Here's a link of the process of setting up the BeagleBone from 7 years ago.
And again as usual with a lot of these types of projects.  Unfinished.  Left
hanging.

https://machinekit.narkive.com/qsd3ZYMP/hal-vcp-controller-with-beaglebone-g
reen-and-lcd-cape




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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency

[John Dammeyer]

Yeah I caught that after I posted.  I think I corrected that in the next 
posting.
Thanks for bringing that to everyone's attention though.  So easy nowadays to 
get snagged.  Must be vigilent.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com]
> Sent: August 6, 2023 6:43 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> 
> Hi John,
> Not really. That $100 is for the pendant only. The 3 axis controller is around
> $550.
> 
> A lot of AliExpress sellers now add multiple products to a single listing. 
> They
> have a relatively cheap item there that makes the item you are after appear
> cheap.
> 
> That said you can get a similar 2 axis Chinese controller for about 1/3 that
> price.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
> http://www.homanndesigns.com
> 
> > On 6 Aug 2023, at 5:17 am, gene heskett  wrote:
> >
> > ?On 8/5/23 14:45, Martin Dobbins wrote:
> >> It makes me wonder which operating system they put on that Chinese
> controller, and what motion control system.
> >> Martin
> >> 
> >> From: John Dammeyer
> >> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 7:41 PM
> >> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'  us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> >> My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for
> ESTOP was inverted.  ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you
> wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured with
> the ESTOP.
> >> But back when a BBB was around $50 and a cape around $25 you had a 3
> axis system. Obviously a break out board of some sort was needed but that's
> true for MESA or any other type of interface just like motors and switches
> are needed too.
> >> The nice thing about these small systems with a small HDMI screen is that
> they don't overwhelm the space taken by a small lathe like a 7x12 or Unimat
> DB200.  I don't want a full size screen, mouse and keyboard plus a PC clone
> for my DB-200 which looks a lot like this one.
> >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.
> it%2F83lxxjam0yj71.jpg=05%7C01%7C%7Cdec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db
> 954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C6382679318
> 83275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoi
> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=l0
> 4m1ookT8TmrWx%2F8azPP2X2qqAyxgSJbezUEI7EZJM%3D=0 ps://i.redd.it/83lxxjam0yj71.jpg>
> >> For $100 Cdn free shipping I can get a Chinese Controller.
> >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> aliexpress.com%2Fitem%2F1005005195839565.html=05%7C01%7C%7C
> dec28113c0d745ae7e5d08db954d6546%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaa
> a%7C1%7C0%7C638267931883275463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWI
> joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3
> 000%7C%7C%7C=O3eRaBFYdAVqxPxwCTL9JCUiFaYmhWTcGtwJKa%2
> BJFT4%3D=0<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100500519583956
> 5.html>
> >> But I'd rather have a Linux based system or my ELS.
> >> John
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> >>> Sent: August 4, 2023 5:20 PM
> >>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> >>>
> >>> I think the BBB was popular because of the twp PRUs.  These are
> >>> programmable processors that are separate from the CPU.  So you can
> get
> >>> very accurate real-time pulses out even with poor latency under Linux.
> >>>
> >>> However, this does require programming the PRUs.Machinekit had a
> HAL
> >>> unit for the PRUs.  I don?t know if LinuxCNC has this or not.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Aug 4, 2023, at 11:18 AM, andy pugh 
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 01:48, alanmthomason--- via Emc-users
> >>>>  wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi There.I'm trying to work through setting up linuxcnc on a
> beaglebone
> >>>>> black.  I've run the latency-test, with results that are not looking
> >>>>> good.has anyone else run this test with a Beaglebone black?  Is there
> any
> >>>>> way to improve results.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think that when Machinekit were fond of the Beaglebone they
> tended
> >>>> to run it h

Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency

[John Dammeyer]

Here's a bit more info with respect to displays for the BBB. (Or Pi for that 
matter)
The Backpack with Touch HDMI from Adafruit is 800x480  (out of stock and is now 
800x600) 
https://www.adafruit.com/product/2407
On my Version the Beagle MachineKit main screen looks nice.
http://www.autoartisans.com/beagle/800x480_Display.jpg
But run MachineKit and it's clear that the screen really is too small for the 
AXIS user interface.  
http://www.autoartisans.com/beagle/800x480_MachineKit.jpg
So to use this with MachineKit requires a new user interface design and that 
means something like the PSNG screen for probing is also not usable without a 
complete redesign.

I did show the phot with the two MANGA screens.  They came from Norway, made in 
China.  
https://www.iagent.no/product/manga-screen-2-big/
The MANGA2 is a 1080P screen in size and if I could figure out how to boot to 
turn the display 90 degrees everything would should up but boy are things 
tiny...
http://www.autoartisans.com/beagle/Manga2_MachineKit.jpg

I forget the resolution of the MANGA 1 screen but again needs to be rotated and 
might also be too small.
http://www.autoartisans.com/beagle/Manga1_MachineKit.jpg

There is a version of the PSNG Probe screen for 1024x768 so I think that would 
have to be the minimum LCD display in at least 7" but likely better 10" for fat 
fingers
http://www.autoartisans.com/beagle/Screenshot1024x768.png

I'm pretty sure this was the latest HAL and INI files for this BBB.
http://www.autoartisans.com/beagle/XylotexG3616.hal
http://www.autoartisans.com/beagle/XylotexG3616.ini

A 1280x800 10" display is available from Amazon.ca for $235 but no touch screen.
https://www.amazon.ca/Eyoyo-Monitor-1280x800-Resolution-Security/dp/B072N2YGXN
Or 1280x800 with touch screen for $169.
https://www.amazon.ca/Raspberry-Inch-Touch-Screen-Touchscreen/dp/B0776VNW9C/ref=sr_1_10
No idea how good this is but if it did work with the Beagle or the 
PI4+MESA_7i92 it could be a nice small form factor CNC system.
Upside with RPI up to date LinuxCNC.  
Downside with Beagle is old MachineKit but hardware is already here for a small 
lathe.

All of this is relative turnkey and doesn't involve writing a brand new CNC 
program on an ESP32.
John



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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency

[John Dammeyer]

Oh yeah.  Happier with LinuxCNC than MACH3 although I must admit MACH3 was an 
easier entry point and with a few lines of basic code and a clip lead on the 
tool bit had the zero probing working well.

Now for LinuxCNC I took a stab at using a modified m6remap.ngc in the PSNG 
screen.
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/29187-work-with-probe?start=610#275121

This posting here shows how I got around the issue so I could keep testing the 
code.
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/29187-work-with-probe?start=620#275187


And although the one on the left was done with a too high feed rate for a 
0.125" cutter the one on the right is much better.  So yes, I'm using LinuxCNC
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/29187-work-with-probe?start=650#276929

Even have power tapping working.  First try into wood instead of metal but I've 
since done metal.
https://youtu.be/l_GkLj942jw

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August 5, 2023 7:06 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> 
> OMG - I keep forgetting you are the ELS guy!  I am glad you are here.   And
> trying linuxcnc..
> 
> You know how much works goes into these things!  I have dabbled a bit in
> some Arduino and such.. It is painful for me because ever time I seem to
> have to relearn it.
> 
> Granted I have a pretty long history with linuxcnc (I really got into it at
> the start of emc2 and HAL) but for me it really is a swiss army knife.  I
> see problems that have a linuxcnc solutions :)
> 
> Just the HAL part is so powerful and flexible..
> 
> sam
> 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 8:57�PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > Sam,
> > You are my hero when it comes to this sort of thing.  I wanted to link one
> > of your RPI youtube videos but for some reason Youtube wasn't helping
> with
> > my searches.
> >
> > I too have written CNC software, way back, Z80 Assembler for a laser
> > cutter as a demo that the machine was capable of what the end customer
> > wanted.  At that point emc1 was just getting started.
> >
> > And my ELS, with reasonable threading using a 1PPR spindle sensor, has
> > been stable for many years and I will support it as long as I possibly
> > can.  And of course it's open source.Although it's been on the back
> > burner for a while, since April 2020, I used a MicroChip Automotive
> > Networking Board that takes a PIM module (PIC32) and created and
> interface
> > board to translate 3.3V signals to 5V and put them onto the correct pins of
> > a PIC18F4685.  This photo is too large to attach so here's a link.
> >
> > http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/AdaptorBoard-7.jpg
> >
> > I then created a project and new init code for a PIC32 instead of the
> > PIC18 and with actually very little effort had the 8 bit code running on
> > the 32 bit processor including the micro-stepping 3A 50V stepper motor
> > driver.  The plan, when I get to it and stop breaking touch probes on my
> > mill, is a small add on board that plugs into the 40 pin PIC18 socket.  The
> > board will also have an extra 8 pin connector for a differential quadrature
> > encoder and a bit of extra I/O for 0-10V output for spindle VFD.  But the
> > basic ELS behaviour won't change that much.
> >
> > But with a 32 bit processor the potential of creating a better trajectory
> > planner so that an operator can hand turn the lathe spindle back and forth
> > and have the Z axis track might be something I will attempt.  With that
> > experience behind me I'd love to see someone do it quickly on a different
> > 32 bit processor.
> >
> > At the moment I'm also playing with a dspic33ch128mp508_pim mounted
> on an
> > Explorer 16 motherboard.It's a dual core 16 bit processor and I've
> > taken the basic demo application and modified it to read a quadrature
> > encoder.  When I select the S3 button it shows encoder displacement in
> > degrees to the nearest 100th and velocity in steps every 50mS.
> >
> > dsPIC33CH128MP508 Demo PIM Version 0.02a
> > S3:Main only
> > S6:Main+Second
> > >q
> > Counter  = 0
> > Control  = 0x8000
> > IOControl= 0x0004
> > Status   = 0x0002
> > Position Counter = 0
> > Velocity Counter = 0
> > Position Hold= 0
> > >?
> >   q  : Show QEI Register values
> >   rx(=x) : Report or Set memory location using hex address=data
> >   v  : Print Version and Build info
> > >v
> > dsPIC33CH128MP508 Demo PIM Version 0.02a
> >
>

Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency

[John Dammeyer]

Sam,
You are my hero when it comes to this sort of thing.  I wanted to link one of 
your RPI youtube videos but for some reason Youtube wasn't helping with my 
searches.

I too have written CNC software, way back, Z80 Assembler for a laser cutter as 
a demo that the machine was capable of what the end customer wanted.  At that 
point emc1 was just getting started.

And my ELS, with reasonable threading using a 1PPR spindle sensor, has been 
stable for many years and I will support it as long as I possibly can.  And of 
course it's open source.Although it's been on the back burner for a while, 
since April 2020, I used a MicroChip Automotive Networking Board that takes a 
PIM module (PIC32) and created and interface board to translate 3.3V signals to 
5V and put them onto the correct pins of a PIC18F4685.  This photo is too large 
to attach so here's a link.

http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/AdaptorBoard-7.jpg

I then created a project and new init code for a PIC32 instead of the PIC18 and 
with actually very little effort had the 8 bit code running on the 32 bit 
processor including the micro-stepping 3A 50V stepper motor driver.  The plan, 
when I get to it and stop breaking touch probes on my mill, is a small add on 
board that plugs into the 40 pin PIC18 socket.  The board will also have an 
extra 8 pin connector for a differential quadrature encoder and a bit of extra 
I/O for 0-10V output for spindle VFD.  But the basic ELS behaviour won't change 
that much.

But with a 32 bit processor the potential of creating a better trajectory 
planner so that an operator can hand turn the lathe spindle back and forth and 
have the Z axis track might be something I will attempt.  With that experience 
behind me I'd love to see someone do it quickly on a different 32 bit processor.

At the moment I'm also playing with a dspic33ch128mp508_pim mounted on an 
Explorer 16 motherboard.It's a dual core 16 bit processor and I've taken 
the basic demo application and modified it to read a quadrature encoder.  When 
I select the S3 button it shows encoder displacement in degrees to the nearest 
100th and velocity in steps every 50mS.

dsPIC33CH128MP508 Demo PIM Version 0.02a
S3:Main only
S6:Main+Second
>q
Counter  = 0
Control  = 0x8000
IOControl= 0x0004
Status   = 0x0002
Position Counter = 0
Velocity Counter = 0
Position Hold= 0
>?
  q  : Show QEI Register values
  rx(=x) : Report or Set memory location using hex address=data
  v  : Print Version and Build info
>v
dsPIC33CH128MP508 Demo PIM Version 0.02a

I also have a TI Launchpad with dual core and QEI support.  It's also 16 bit 
but has some pretty impressive math capabilities for doing real time trajectory 
planning.  

But each of these projects all suffer from the same issue (as would an ESP32 
module).  One still has to build a board, assemble it, test it and mount it 
into a box.  The Beagle with a cape and Pi4 with a MESA are just so much easier.

Even just the adaptor board for my ELS and the software was a few months of 
hobby time spent.  Doing a full trajectory planner is a huge undertaking.

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August 5, 2023 5:51 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> 
> I agree..It is so easy isn't it?   Just use a  ESP32!
> 
> I tried to write a machine controller when I was in my 20's...  This was
> before I found turbocnc (which sucked) and linuxcnc. (emc1)
> 
> I also helped test the trajectory planner improvements made when Rob
> added
> n-segment read-ahead.   It took months to make something viable that also
> worked as an actual cnc (tool offsets, velocity/acc constraints, cnc
> stuff...)
> 
> Someone that comes in and says - you can easily use x and y to make a great
> cnc controller are quite naive...  The grbl controller that every one touts
> as a great solution is so basic it is scary..  works great for a basic 3
> axis mill - but that is it.
> 
> I have actually been using a rpi4 and mesa to run an actual mill to machine
> actual stuff.  It works very well - no issues...
> 
> It does some amazing stuff like...  (and is an actual cnc controller that
> takes actual gcode..)  Am I getting my point across?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/shorts/23bEsKMNJH0
> 
> sam
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 7:30�PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > Chris,
> > I must admit I had a bit of a chuckle when I read your answer.  It's so
> > easy to just do this or use that or add these and then you are good to go.
> >
> > If it's that easy I expect you'll have that tablet with the wifi
> > connection to the ESP32 and be executing G-Code by the end of August
> right?
> >
> > Other than wiring up motors and all the

Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency

[John Dammeyer]

Three different screens.  The Manga screens were for the Replicape which was
a 5 axis stepper driver module for 3D printers.  One axis driver failed and
support for the cape vanished.  The two manga touch screens never worked
well.  I even sent the original back to demonstrate the problem.  It was
returned with the comment that nothing was wrong with it.  Touch still
didn't work in the corners so like a fool I bought the large Manga 2.  It's
really just a converted Cell Phone screen.

And the SD systems small board, although it worked, was also discontinued.
And some of the pins for the button and display made running LinuxCNC
difficult with the cape.  And CAN bus was impossible without rewiring the
cape.

The other problem with the BBB is the HDMI interface is for lower res
screens because that was the standard at the time.   The 800x480 HDMI is
discontinued.
https://www.adafruit.com/product/2261  Maybe this one would work.

Anyway, the key word is discontinued...discontinued...discontinued.  

Modern electronics has a lifetime now often less than the development time
for a solid product.  Not like the milling machine you buy and expect to use
for 20 years.
John



> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: August 5, 2023 3:24 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> 
> Me too.  A closer look at the fine print and selecting the correct button
shows
> the actual CNC controller is $513 or $541 for 3 or 4 axis respectively.
The MPG
> is priced separately at $96.
> 
> And this is why a BBB with a cape that included a Break Out Board with a
few
> relays etc. for under $100 would be quite the bargain.  The question is
then
> what sort of display would be good.  And you still need some sort of MPG
to
> go with it for also about $100.
> 
> For $94 I can get, from amazon.ca  a 7inch HDMI LCD (H) 1024x600 Monitor
> IPS Screen Capacitive Touch Display Supports Raspberry Pi Jetson Nano
> BeagleBone Black Banana Pi & Microsoft XBOX360, Sony PS4,Nintendo Switch
> 
> And therein lies the problem.  Creating something similar to the $500
Chinese
> CNC controllers with touch screen will ultimately cost in the same $500
range.
> But unless the MachineKit or LinuxCNC version is stable with a target life
> similar to the life of the machine tool no one will spend the energy and
time
> to make that.
> 
> The market isn't big enough to justify the work required.  Which is why so
> many of the Beagle Capes are no longer available.  Next week there's an
new
> ESP32 with more bells and whistles.  Won't do what the Beagle does but ...
> 
> John
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: August 5, 2023 11:44 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> >
> > It makes me wonder which operating system they put on that Chinese
> > controller, and what motion control system.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > 
> > From: John Dammeyer
> > Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 7:41 PM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'  > us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> >
> > My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic
for
> > ESTOP was inverted.  ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you
> > wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured
with
> > the ESTOP.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency

[John Dammeyer]

I've attached a photo of one option for the Beagle that I was setting up for
my Lathe.  The down side is the 800x480 touch screen from Adafruit.
Although it's HDMI and has USB for the touch screen I don't think it's made
anymore.  So that makes writing software for that size screen kind of a
waste of time.

The parts are:
BBB 2GB
Xylotex (not made anymore)
Proto board with level translator for quadrature encoder for lathe spindle
$4 Breakout Board through AliExpress.  I've reverse engineered this board
and created a schematic.
800x480 LCD Touch Screen.

I'll follow up this with another photo of some of the other also
discontinued touch screens.
John



> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: August 5, 2023 3:24 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> 
> Me too.  A closer look at the fine print and selecting the correct button
shows
> the actual CNC controller is $513 or $541 for 3 or 4 axis respectively.
The MPG
> is priced separately at $96.
> 
> And this is why a BBB with a cape that included a Break Out Board with a
few
> relays etc. for under $100 would be quite the bargain.  The question is
then
> what sort of display would be good.  And you still need some sort of MPG
to
> go with it for also about $100.
> 
> For $94 I can get, from amazon.ca  a 7inch HDMI LCD (H) 1024x600 Monitor
> IPS Screen Capacitive Touch Display Supports Raspberry Pi Jetson Nano
> BeagleBone Black Banana Pi & Microsoft XBOX360, Sony PS4,Nintendo Switch
> 
> And therein lies the problem.  Creating something similar to the $500
Chinese
> CNC controllers with touch screen will ultimately cost in the same $500
range.
> But unless the MachineKit or LinuxCNC version is stable with a target life
> similar to the life of the machine tool no one will spend the energy and
time
> to make that.
> 
> The market isn't big enough to justify the work required.  Which is why so
> many of the Beagle Capes are no longer available.  Next week there's an
new
> ESP32 with more bells and whistles.  Won't do what the Beagle does but ...
> 
> John
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: August 5, 2023 11:44 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> >
> > It makes me wonder which operating system they put on that Chinese
> > controller, and what motion control system.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > 
> > From: John Dammeyer
> > Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 7:41 PM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'  > us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> >
> > My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic
for
> > ESTOP was inverted.  ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you
> > wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured
with
> > the ESTOP.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency

[John Dammeyer]

Chris,
I must admit I had a bit of a chuckle when I read your answer.  It's so easy to 
just do this or use that or add these and then you are good to go.

If it's that easy I expect you'll have that tablet with the wifi connection to 
the ESP32 and be executing G-Code by the end of August right?

Other than wiring up motors and all the mechanicals, which has to be done for 
any CNC installation the time to get the CNC running was even less time than 
from now until the end of August for me.  And I likely would have been using 
this were it not for the inverted ESTOP. 
https://youtu.be/9GF709ZfLRQ
Instead I went the PC route and did a dual boot between LinuxCNC and WIN-XP for 
MACH3.  After that I bought the MESA 7i92H after also mucking around with my 
USB SmoothStepper (MACH3) from my CNC router.I decided Linux had a better 
future than WIN-XP so although I still run MACH3 on the CNC router the mill has 
LinuxCNC.

On the workbench I muck around with a Pi4 and MESA 7i92H.   Go onto you tube 
and search Raspberry Pi and LinuxCNC and there are lots.   
Again one like this is much faster to set up than your suggestion and not any 
more expensive. 
https://youtu.be/qL530kJUmII

I do look forward to your progress on that novel idea of a tablet, ESP32, RTOS 
and all the code to deal with trajectory planning. 
Keep us informed.   Maybe some videos of the intermediate steps.  Especially 
since as you imply it's so easy to go that route.

It would be interesting if you could do it for less than 
https://youtu.be/X-DY6iL6NcI

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August 5, 2023 4:02 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> 
> Why start with a BBB/Pi4 and then add a screen and so on.
> 
> A better starting place would be a low-cost Android tablet.  Perhaps like this
> one.  For $120 you get the CPU (that runs Linux), a touch screen and WiFi.
> What is needed is a way to connect it to a machine tool.
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-galaxy-tab-a7-lite-8-7-32gb-with-
> wi-fi-dark-gray/6464584.p?skuId=6464584?
> Samsung Galaxy Tab A7 Lite 8.7" 32GB with Wi-Fi Dark Gray SM-
> T220NZAAXAR
> bestbuy.com
> 
>  I would use something like a small 32-bit micro controller to do the 
> real-time
> pulses and switch monitoring.   If you would choose an ESP32 then the
> interface to the tablet is wireless.   But you could use USB as both devices
> have USB built-in.  USB has a built-in asocronus mode where data moves in
> strict real-time.  But this might not be needed if 100% of the RT loops are
> onthe microcontroller.
> 
> The ESP32 is a dual-CPU, 32-bit device with more then enough computer
> power to run a CNC controller.  I would 100%, for sure run an RTOS
> (FreeRTOS or Mbed) on the ESP32.  The tablet is just the user interface and
> �MPG�.
> 
> I am currently using ESP32 to generate PWM control for a 12-axis robot and
> I�m getting sub microsecond pulse accuracy which is more then my
> application needs.  It is very fast and written 100% in Python.
> 
> If the user already had an Android tablet or wanted to buy a used tablet you
> really could under cut the cost of a $500 Chinese device.
> 
> LCNC was written to take advantage of �cheap� community hardware.  This
> is when a basic 16-bit PC would sell for �only� about $3,500.   Today�s
> commodity hardware is called a �cell phone� and they are MUCH more
> powerful then the old PC was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > On Aug 5, 2023, at 3:23 PM, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >
> > Me too.  A closer look at the fine print and selecting the correct button
> shows the actual CNC controller is $513 or $541 for 3 or 4 axis respectively.
> The MPG is priced separately at $96.
> >
> > And this is why a BBB with a cape that included a Break Out Board with a
> few relays etc. for under $100 would be quite the bargain.  The question is
> then what sort of display would be good.  And you still need some sort of
> MPG to go with it for also about $100.
> >
> > For $94 I can get, from amazon.ca  a 7inch HDMI LCD (H) 1024x600 Monitor
> IPS Screen Capacitive Touch Display Supports Raspberry Pi Jetson Nano
> BeagleBone Black Banana Pi & Microsoft XBOX360, Sony PS4,Nintendo Switch
> >
> > And therein lies the problem.  Creating something similar to the $500
> Chinese CNC controllers with touch screen will ultimately cost in the same
> $500 range.  But unless the MachineKit or LinuxCNC version is stable with a
> target life similar to the life of the machine tool no one will spend the 
> energy
> and time to make that.
> >
> > The market isn't big enough to justify the work required.  Which is why so
> many of the Beagle Cape

Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency

[John Dammeyer]

Me too.  A closer look at the fine print and selecting the correct button shows 
the actual CNC controller is $513 or $541 for 3 or 4 axis respectively.  The 
MPG is priced separately at $96.

And this is why a BBB with a cape that included a Break Out Board with a few 
relays etc. for under $100 would be quite the bargain.  The question is then 
what sort of display would be good.  And you still need some sort of MPG to go 
with it for also about $100.

For $94 I can get, from amazon.ca  a 7inch HDMI LCD (H) 1024x600 Monitor IPS 
Screen Capacitive Touch Display Supports Raspberry Pi Jetson Nano BeagleBone 
Black Banana Pi & Microsoft XBOX360, Sony PS4,Nintendo Switch

And therein lies the problem.  Creating something similar to the $500 Chinese 
CNC controllers with touch screen will ultimately cost in the same $500 range.  
But unless the MachineKit or LinuxCNC version is stable with a target life 
similar to the life of the machine tool no one will spend the energy and time 
to make that.

The market isn't big enough to justify the work required.  Which is why so many 
of the Beagle Capes are no longer available.  Next week there's an new ESP32 
with more bells and whistles.  Won't do what the Beagle does but ...

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com]
> Sent: August 5, 2023 11:44 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> 
> It makes me wonder which operating system they put on that Chinese
> controller, and what motion control system.
> 
> Martin
> 
> ____
> From: John Dammeyer
> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 7:41 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'  us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> 
> My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for
> ESTOP was inverted.  ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you
> wouldn't find out until you tried to save a body part from being injured with
> the ESTOP.



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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency

[John Dammeyer]

My biggest issue with the Xylotex BBB Cape for CNC was that the logic for ESTOP 
was inverted.  ESTOP was a N/O switch so if a wire was broken you wouldn't find 
out until you tried to save a body part from being injured with the ESTOP.

But back when a BBB was around $50 and a cape around $25 you had a 3 axis 
system. Obviously a break out board of some sort was needed but that's true for 
MESA or any other type of interface just like motors and switches are needed 
too.

The nice thing about these small systems with a small HDMI screen is that they 
don't overwhelm the space taken by a small lathe like a 7x12 or Unimat DB200.  
I don't want a full size screen, mouse and keyboard plus a PC clone for my 
DB-200 which looks a lot like this one.
https://i.redd.it/83lxxjam0yj71.jpg

For $100 Cdn free shipping I can get a Chinese Controller.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005195839565.html

But I'd rather have a Linux based system or my ELS.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August 4, 2023 5:20 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone black latency
> 
> I think the BBB was popular because of the twp PRUs.  These are
> programmable processors that are separate from the CPU.  So you can get
> very accurate real-time pulses out even with poor latency under Linux.
> 
> However, this does require programming the PRUs.Machinekit had a HAL
> unit for the PRUs.  I don�t know if LinuxCNC has this or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > On Aug 4, 2023, at 11:18 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 at 01:48, alanmthomason--- via Emc-users
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi There.I'm trying to work through setting up linuxcnc on a beaglebone
> >> black.  I've run the latency-test, with results that are not looking
> >> good.has anyone else run this test with a Beaglebone black?  Is there any
> >> way to improve results.
> >
> > I think that when Machinekit were fond of the Beaglebone they tended
> > to run it headless. I can't recall whether that was just poor graphics
> > performance in general, or whether it was due to latency issues.
> >
> > You could try installing the (old) Machinekit image to see if the
> > latency with that kernel is better.
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC build on BeagleBoneBlack

[John Dammeyer]

I'm curious.  I have one of the original Xylotex boards.  The link to this web 
site implies there's a newer version along with a link to 4GB BeagleBone Image 
for MachineKit which I have read hasn't been supported for years.
http://xylotex.netfirms.com/OSCommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40_id=169

My BBBs (3 of them) are all sitting in a box unused.  This includes things like 
LCD displays, CAN bus capes etc.   I had thought about adding the BBB with CNC 
to my Gingery Lathe which currently is controlled by my Electronic Lead Screw 
product.

What is the status in general with the BBB and MachineKit or LinuxCNC.   Should 
I just put my stuff on EBAY?

I ask because I also have a 1GB Pi4 with a MESA 7i92H as a desktop play toy.   
I think the 1GB is a bit small for LinuxCNC but so far it has worked.  I'm not 
sure whether support for LinuxCNC on the PI4 has also gone by the wayside?

So if someone had a BBB and a cape, installs a version of LinuxCNC (MachineKit) 
do they run into what appears to happen often now with trying to upgrade and 
unknown web links?
John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August 3, 2023 1:20 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC build on BeagleBoneBlack
> 
> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 at 17:51, Thomas J Powderly  wrote:
> 
> > Is there an explanation of gpiod?
> 
> It's a replacement for the sysfs interface for gpio (which hal_pi_gpio
> uses, for example).
> 
> There is an article about it here:
> https://lloydrochester.com/post/hardware/libgpiod-intro-rpi/
> 
> I have a working-but-slow demo here:
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/15138feb4a1a811a7b61a6605
> 55d78b85bdcf86c
> 
> (later commits in that branch are not working at all at the moment)
> 
> to use the BBB output from gpioinfo above:
> 
> loadrr hal_gpio inputs=P8_25,P8_24  outputs=P8_10,P811
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor

[John Dammeyer]

Gene,
I think you are misreading the data sheet.  The 115K baud is for setting up
the unit.  Ie. Pulses per rev.  Once that's done the serial isn't used
anymore.
I had two US Digital opticals on my DC servo's and they were crap.  I
switched to CUI units and all my problems went away.  

One has to assume the data sheet is correct when they say 8000 RPM with 2048
PPR.  The 115k Baud has nothing to do with that.

In either case, I'll likely set this encoder up for 200 PPR so that even
with micro-stepping I really still don't care for higher resolution since I
have a 25:1 planetary drive after the motor.  Assume I run the motor at 600
RPM max speed.  That's 10 RPS or 2000 pulses per rev or 20,000 with 10:1
micro-stepping. But wait... 600 RPM divided by 25 is 24 RPM or 0.4 RPS so
2.5 seconds to turn one revolution. 

I'm thinking that if it takes 1 turn to release a TTS holder that's still
2.5 seconds.  Faster than me with a couple of wrenches.  And 25 seconds for
10 turns to release an R8 holder.  Also faster than me mucking with the nut.
Unless I would use an electric drill to spin it loose.  But then think of
the process.
1. Pick up two wrenches and loosen draw bar.
2. Put down wrenches.
3. Pick up portable drill and spin draw bar.  Now maybe impact drill could
do both.
4. Once 10 turns are complete catch R8 tool.

Twenty five seconds for it to be done automatically is actually not so bad.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: July 29, 2023 10:37 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor
> 
> On 7/30/23 00:12, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Hi Gene,
> > Best answered with the data sheet.
> > https://www.cuidevices.com/product/resource/amt11.pdf
> >
> A Capacitative device. Not a hall effect. The capacitative may be faster
> than a hall.  The reason I'm anti hall is the time lag in the hall world
> due to the time it takes to do the A/D conversions, which in turn means
> the hall encoded setup moves in jerks depending on the speed of that
> conversion. The 42C series of small motors, seen as ideal for a 3d
> printer, are a disaster because they don't move step by step but jerk by
> jerk, frequency of jerk determined to the speed of the A/D. Optical can
> determine where the motor is and which direction its turning from any
> edge of either A or B signals. At sufficient microstep divisors they can
> move quite pretty smoothly. I'd assume this time lag in less for the
> capacitative, but at the same time there is the Nyquist effect but the
> capacitative conversion is simpler, but the serial output still enforces
> a lag in the data stream. Only optical, which at higher and fixed
> resolutions is instant. The question remains then "is capacitative fast
> enough".  And that IDK. The 115 kilobaud output says no to me.  That
> alone would make me go shopping for a ABI encoder.
> 
> But I'm known to be picky. That's an optical $22 Omron 1000 ppr on the
> back shaft of the 1 hp in my g0704. With the gear ratio being
> switchable, and that encoder rated for 6k revs, but I watch spindle revs
> in the tach display. Top spindle is 3k revs. So times a hair over 7100,
> its seeing motor revs of nearly 21k revs at full song and not missing a
> beat for about 5 years now. Scale for high gear is a hair over 7100 per
> spindle rev.  I don't use the index, that is generated by a screw glued
> to the spindle going by an ATS-667 hall effect. That has its own
> direction problem I'm not smart enough to fix.   Someday...
> 
> > Not cheap in Canadian $.
> > https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/cui-devices/AMT113Q-
> V/4835229
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> >> Sent: July 29, 2023 9:02 PM
> >> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor
> >>
> >> On 7/29/23 22:36, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >>> Here's my solution.  Drilled and milled 0.065" aluminum.  Two counter
> > sunk
> >>> holes in the back.  The modified flat head screws epoxied in serving
as
> >>> threaded studs.  Then followed standard CUI installation and alignment
> >>> instructions.
> >>>
> >>> Now to interface to it and write software to capture the motion and
> >> position
> >>> John
> >>>
> >> Just one question John, is that encoder optical, or hall effect?
> >> Optical is real time, hall effect is not.
> >>>
> >>>> -Original Message-
> >>>> From: Curtis Dutton [mailto:curtd

Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Gene,
Best answered with the data sheet.
https://www.cuidevices.com/product/resource/amt11.pdf

Not cheap in Canadian $.
https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/cui-devices/AMT113Q-V/4835229

John


> -Original Message-
> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: July 29, 2023 9:02 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor
> 
> On 7/29/23 22:36, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Here's my solution.  Drilled and milled 0.065" aluminum.  Two counter
sunk
> > holes in the back.  The modified flat head screws epoxied in serving as
> > threaded studs.  Then followed standard CUI installation and alignment
> > instructions.
> >
> > Now to interface to it and write software to capture the motion and
> position
> > John
> >
> Just one question John, is that encoder optical, or hall effect?
> Optical is real time, hall effect is not.
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Curtis Dutton [mailto:curtd...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: June 26, 2023 6:28 PM
> >> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor
> >>
> >> On a past life before I started using servos I had attached encoders to
my
> >> steppers to stop the machine when steps were missed. I used us digital
> >> encoders that came with adhesive backed mounts from the factory. They
> >> worked swimmingly. I still have one in the "spare parts" room. The
> encoder
> >> is still securely attached over 10 years later. "double sided tape"
> >> essentially woked very well.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 3:11 PM Todd Zuercher
> 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I was just about to suggest gluing the thing on.  You beat me to it.
> >>>
> >>> Todd Zuercher
> >>> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> >>> 630 Henry Street
> >>> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> >>> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: Roland Jollivet 
> >>> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2023 1:17 PM
> >>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)  >> us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> >>> Subject: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor
> >>>
> >>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> >>>
> >>> You have such a large flat surface area there. Design an encoder mount
> >>> plate of similar size where the end result is also has a flat surface.
> >>>
> >>> Rough and clean the back of the motor up, then use a decent
> polyurethane
> >>> adhesive to bond it on. During the setup you could use a jig to keep
it
> >>> concentric with the shaft.
> >>> Design it in such a way that you can still replace the encoder if need
> > be.
> >>>
> >>> Roland
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, 25 Jun 2023 at 05:31, John Dammeyer
> 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I want to add an encoder onto the back of this stepper motor.  I can
> >>>> install either a US Digital or a CUI since both mounting flanges can
> >>>> extend out near the edges of the back mounting plate.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Is there any reason I can't clamp the motor in a vice and pop in two
> >>> holes
> >>>> and tap them with a bottom tap at the spacing of the mounting flange?
> >>>>
> >>>> John
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ___
> >>>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor

[John Dammeyer]

Here's my solution.  Drilled and milled 0.065" aluminum.  Two counter sunk
holes in the back.  The modified flat head screws epoxied in serving as
threaded studs.  Then followed standard CUI installation and alignment
instructions.

Now to interface to it and write software to capture the motion and position
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Curtis Dutton [mailto:curtd...@gmail.com]
> Sent: June 26, 2023 6:28 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor
> 
> On a past life before I started using servos I had attached encoders to my
> steppers to stop the machine when steps were missed. I used us digital
> encoders that came with adhesive backed mounts from the factory. They
> worked swimmingly. I still have one in the "spare parts" room. The encoder
> is still securely attached over 10 years later. "double sided tape"
> essentially woked very well.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 3:11 PM Todd Zuercher 
> wrote:
> 
> > I was just about to suggest gluing the thing on.  You beat me to it.
> >
> > Todd Zuercher
> > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > 630 Henry Street
> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Roland Jollivet 
> > Sent: Monday, June 26, 2023 1:17 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)  us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor
> >
> > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> >
> > You have such a large flat surface area there. Design an encoder mount
> > plate of similar size where the end result is also has a flat surface.
> >
> > Rough and clean the back of the motor up, then use a decent polyurethane
> > adhesive to bond it on. During the setup you could use a jig to keep it
> > concentric with the shaft.
> > Design it in such a way that you can still replace the encoder if need
be.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 25 Jun 2023 at 05:31, John Dammeyer 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I want to add an encoder onto the back of this stepper motor.  I can
> > > install either a US Digital or a CUI since both mounting flanges can
> > > extend out near the edges of the back mounting plate.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Is there any reason I can't clamp the motor in a vice and pop in two
> > holes
> > > and tap them with a bottom tap at the spacing of the mounting flange?
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Karl Schmidt [mailto:k...@lrak.net]
> I got burned with electronic-CAD software - the software quit unless you
> signed up for their new expensive support
> package..
> 
> 
> I've been using FreeCAD - slowly getting better - steep learning curve,
but
> they can't pull the plug -- AND it runs on
> linux. The new adaptive clearing bit is nice. Working around bugs is part
of
> the deal.
> 
> 
> I think the only two packages that you can 'own' that run on linux are
synergy
> and perhaps Alibre CAM - haven't tried them.
> 
> 
There's no such thing as ALibreCAM anymore.  MecSoft pulled support and
stopped working with Alibre.  

I suspect because every new version of Alibre changes the AlibreCAD file
format so it can't be read by older versions.  Which means if you buy the
newest Alibre Atom for example and save a file it will be in Rev 26.  If I
want to load it with my Rev 25 I can't.

Compare that to the evil Microsoft and the ability to SaveAs a Word Document
in WORD 97 format from WORD 2010.

Now AlibreCAD Rev 26 can read Rev 25 files and save as Rev 26 but according
to Alibre if they didn't change the file format then no one would upgrade.

And no it doesn't run on Linux.I have FreeCAD on my WIN-10 system but I
find the user interface just as confusing as Fusion360.  Maybe we should
call it conFusion360.

And I still am able to use AlibreCAM (although not supposed to be able) on
my system with AlibreCAD.And yes, it still calls home for verification
that it's me.  
John




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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 at 23:13, gene heskett  wrote:
> 
> > I also have a problem with the $1000 limit, even if my total intake in
> I think you are missing the point. Fusion is free to use until and if
> you are using it to make a profit, and only if that profit is
> significant.
> 
> You fall very much into the free-use demographic.
> 
> And, it's not like they check anyway.
> 
And the cost of the bait is very low compared to the number of fish they are 
catching with it.  Once you have several years of drawings (all essentially 
free) throwing an upgrade that now costs on ly a tiny bit, hardly anything,  
but "Will enhance your user experience!"  is in the works.

John



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Re: [Emc-users] Installing From Debian?

[John Dammeyer]

And this install page has issues.
https://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html#_installing_on_raspbian_10

tells me the key is a new key but no user id.  Continuing with the sudo apt-get 
update in the instructions tells me the signatures can't be verified because 
the NO_PUBKEY ... isn't available.

And apt-key is deprecated.

OTOH, no trouble installing the Arduino IDE.

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July 8, 2023 1:33 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Installing From Debian?
> 
> On Sat, 8 Jul 2023 at 21:31, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > sudo apt-get install linuxcnc
> > It reported an error
> > E: Unable to locate package linuxcnc
> 
> It's actually linuxcnc-uspace
> 
> (Maybe it shouldn't be any more, but I guess we are stuck with that now)
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Installing From Debian?

[John Dammeyer]

Same error.   Unable to locate package.  Sudo apt-get install does work as I 
downloaded and installed lazarus.

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July 8, 2023 1:33 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Installing From Debian?
> 
> On Sat, 8 Jul 2023 at 21:31, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > sudo apt-get install linuxcnc
> > It reported an error
> > E: Unable to locate package linuxcnc
> 
> It's actually linuxcnc-uspace
> 
> (Maybe it shouldn't be any more, but I guess we are stuck with that now)
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Installing From Debian?

[John Dammeyer]

I have an old MacBook (A1278) that is currently running Debian GNU/Linux with a 
Raspberry Pi Desktop.  
Is it possible to install LinuxCNC into this environment?
I did try:
sudo apt-get install linuxcnc
It reported an error 
E: Unable to locate package linuxcnc

John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July 8, 2023 10:29 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Installing From Debian?
> 
> On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 at 02:59, Todd Zuercher 
> wrote:
> >
> > Any one installed Debian 12 and running  Linuxcnc on a machine?
> 
> I recently did a clean install on my Macbook (I can now dual-boot
> simultaneously: https://photos.app.goo.gl/jEjzzJmjDVqouQh79 )
> 
> It went very smoothly. I downloaded the ISO, put it on a USB using dd,
> installed Linux and then sudo apt-get install linuxcnc and it all just
> worked.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] G33.1 error then g-code file parsed

[John Dammeyer]

One more addendum to this and then I'll leave it alone.
I played around with a few more Z axis accel and spindle speed values.

It looks like it only starts decelerating the spindle to 0 after the Z
distance has finished.  Then Z decelerates as does the spindle.  Since the Z
position after it's stopped exceeds the Z starting point it then moves the Z
back.  So there's an extra Z move in there that wasn't apparent when the
line following the G31 was G01 Z 0.5.
When I removed the Z 0.5 it became clear the Z has overshot Z=0.0 and is
brought back to Z=0.0..

And it looks like Z tries to track the spindle as it decelerates but can't
keep up when the spindle speed is too high and has a high ACCEL value.  

One other interesting side effect.
S200 M3
G33.1 Z-0.7 K0.05 I12

Tapping is done at 200 RPM and  Z=10 IPM.  The return RPM is 2400 RPM and Z
should be 120 IPM.  Both speeds are within the capability of the system.
However it just stops at the end of the retraction point.  The S200 M3
doesn't occur.  No fault message.

John




> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: July 5, 2023 12:08 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G33.1 error then g-code file parsed
> 
> Hi Gene,
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > That Z following until the spindle is completely stopped is a
> > possibility I hadn't considered. And I don't read src code that easily.
> > I have always considered the sync was released when z had been
> withdrawn
> > to the starting point even though inertia is going to make it over shoot
> > and either motion or the PID's are going to force the reset to the
> > starting position, doing it independently.  So if you're correct then
> > we've both learned something.  And your fix would appear to be the
> > correct one. If the z is your knee, turning that around and bringing it
> > back up to 2 or 4 thou is the hardest part of the job.
> >
> > I also don't have any machines with a heavy knee. Out of sight, out of
> > mind. I'll get my coat now.
> >
> 
> I've done some other tests too.  With the reduced acceleration on the
> spindle it takes a while now for it to go from 0 to 3000 RPM.  Here's
what's
> interesting. If I tell it S0 it sets the speed to 0 and does the M5 and
stops
> instantly.  If I do an S1 it slows from 3000 RPM down to 1 RPM and no M5.
> Now if I then do an M5 it stops.  All that makes sense.
> 
> Next.  I have it running at S1200 M4 (CCW).  I then tall it S200 M3.  I
get the
> slow smooth deceleration and then change in direction and acceleration
back
> up to 200 RPM with the new ACCEL values.  Still fairly smooth.
> 
> Therefore I'm guessing that at the end of the I6 which is turning 1200 RPM
> CCW the internal behavior is like immediately executing an M3 with
tracking
> disabled since we no longer want the Z to move the work into the tap
again.
> (or the tap into the work).
> 
> If I put the higher spindle accel values back the change from 600 RPM CCW
to
> 200 RPM CW (the original M3 speed for tapping) is almost instant.
> 
> So why might that be?  My theory is that Z tracks the spindle until it's
reached
> the original start position.
> 
> G33.1 Z-0.7 K0.05 I3.0
> Let's take a look at trajectory planning here remembering like threading
on a
> lathe the Z axis tracks the spindle speed.  The question is what does it
do as
> it's unscrewing the tap.
> 1.  The hole was -0.7" deep.
> 2. Z takes 0.1" to decelerate at 30 ipm (the I3 speed) so starts to
decelerate at
> Z=-0.1 to reach Z0.0.
> 3. The trajectory planner should decelerate the spindle to 0 RPM during
that
> last  0.100" Z axis motion using the Z ACCEL value
> 4. When Z is back at the start (Z=0.000) the spindle should also be
stopped
> and at this point the G33.1 command is complete..
> 5. Except we have to put the spindle back to where we were when it started
> which was S200 M3.
> 
> Except maybe, the system issues the S200 M3 at the -0.1" Z position
> assuming the Z will finish it's deceleration and the spindle will stop and
go
> back to CW at 200 RPM.
> Z (Joint 2) is still tracking the spindle which is now decelerating way
too fast
> and we get the following error.
> 
> Or maybe at Z=-0.1 the system issues an M5 to stop the spindle which it
does
> almost instantly and Z can't keep up and a following error.
> 
> When I change the spindle acceleration so it slows down to zero at a rate
that
> Z can keep up with and I don't get a following error.
> 
> Anyway, the behaviour is now repeatable and I suspect how the I parameter
> is handled with respect to tracking is a problem.
> 
> John
> 
> 
>

Re: [Emc-users] G33.1 error then g-code file parsed

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Gene,

> -Original Message-
> From: gene heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> That Z following until the spindle is completely stopped is a
> possibility I hadn't considered. And I don't read src code that easily.
> I have always considered the sync was released when z had been withdrawn
> to the starting point even though inertia is going to make it over shoot
> and either motion or the PID's are going to force the reset to the
> starting position, doing it independently.  So if you're correct then
> we've both learned something.  And your fix would appear to be the
> correct one. If the z is your knee, turning that around and bringing it
> back up to 2 or 4 thou is the hardest part of the job.
> 
> I also don't have any machines with a heavy knee. Out of sight, out of
> mind. I'll get my coat now.
>

I've done some other tests too.  With the reduced acceleration on the spindle 
it takes a while now for it to go from 0 to 3000 RPM.  Here's what's 
interesting. If I tell it S0 it sets the speed to 0 and does the M5 and stops 
instantly.  If I do an S1 it slows from 3000 RPM down to 1 RPM and no M5.
Now if I then do an M5 it stops.  All that makes sense.

Next.  I have it running at S1200 M4 (CCW).  I then tall it S200 M3.  I get the 
slow smooth deceleration and then change in direction and acceleration back up 
to 200 RPM with the new ACCEL values.  Still fairly smooth.

Therefore I'm guessing that at the end of the I6 which is turning 1200 RPM CCW 
the internal behavior is like immediately executing an M3 with tracking 
disabled since we no longer want the Z to move the work into the tap again.  
(or the tap into the work).

If I put the higher spindle accel values back the change from 600 RPM CCW to 
200 RPM CW (the original M3 speed for tapping) is almost instant.

So why might that be?  My theory is that Z tracks the spindle until it's 
reached the original start position.

G33.1 Z-0.7 K0.05 I3.0
Let's take a look at trajectory planning here remembering like threading on a 
lathe the Z axis tracks the spindle speed.  The question is what does it do as 
it's unscrewing the tap.
1.  The hole was -0.7" deep.  
2. Z takes 0.1" to decelerate at 30 ipm (the I3 speed) so starts to decelerate 
at Z=-0.1 to reach Z0.0.
3. The trajectory planner should decelerate the spindle to 0 RPM during that 
last  0.100" Z axis motion using the Z ACCEL value
4. When Z is back at the start (Z=0.000) the spindle should also be stopped and 
at this point the G33.1 command is complete..
5. Except we have to put the spindle back to where we were when it started 
which was S200 M3.

Except maybe, the system issues the S200 M3 at the -0.1" Z position assuming 
the Z will finish it's deceleration and the spindle will stop and go back to CW 
at 200 RPM.
Z (Joint 2) is still tracking the spindle which is now decelerating way too 
fast and we get the following error.

Or maybe at Z=-0.1 the system issues an M5 to stop the spindle which it does 
almost instantly and Z can't keep up and a following error.

When I change the spindle acceleration so it slows down to zero at a rate that 
Z can keep up with and I don't get a following error.

Anyway, the behaviour is now repeatable and I suspect how the I parameter is 
handled with respect to tracking is a problem.

John




If the system knows that at Z ACCEL values it takes say 0.1" to come to a halt 
then it likely tells spindle to now slow down to 0 as the Z axis decelerates to 
0 arriving at the Z starting point of the tapping process.
 



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Re: [Emc-users] G33.1 error then g-code file parsed

[John Dammeyer]

On 7/4/23 18:18, gene heskett wrote:
> On 7/4/23 16:49, John Dammeyer wrote:
Hi Gene,
I think you are overthinking the problem.  .

> Lets clarify where the error is, because the turn around at the bottom 
> of the hole is synchronized, the turn around at the top is not.
> So where is it when the error was reported?

The error occurred after the I3 completed.  Recall I3 tells the spindle to turn 
3x as fast CCW as it turned in the other direction CW so 600 RPM.
The spindle is started earlier with an S200 M5.  If  the spindle is up to speed 
at 200 RPM the knee heads up accelerating up to 10 IPM and the tap threads the 
hole.  At the bottom of the hole the spindle is instructed to slow down and the 
Z axis tracks that from 10 IPM down to 0 IPM so that the thread isn't ruined or 
tap broken.

Once the spindle is completely stopped (and the Z axis would be too) the 
spindle is accelerated up to 600 RPM CCW and at the same time the knee is 
accelerated to 30 IPM which is also 3x the amount when it went down.   It has 
no trouble following that because I suspect the acceleration is likely based 
smaller of the two accelerations which is the Z axis acceleration.  After all 
it's a tracking operation so it may not even use the max accel values or the 
min of the two so they can both keep up.

Now,  at the top of the hole once the tap is out the synchronized motion is 
complete and the spindle direction now has to be reversed to return to where it 
was set with the M5 CW rotation.  Here's where it screws up.  

It's no longer _required_ to have the Z axis track so I suspect the Spindle 
MAX_ACCEL value is now used.  However from the Z axis perspective it may still 
be trying to track the  CCW spindle until the spindle is stopped.  Therefore we 
have the spindle with a MAX_ACCEL value of 300 and a Z axis MAX_ACCEL  value of 
10.  The Joint2 axis (Z) just can't keep up and that’s when the following error 
happens.

So by reducing my spindle acceleration to a more reasonable value which doesn't 
really appear to create problems the Z axis, which I suspect still has tracking 
enabled can now keep up as the spindle slows.  And now I can speed out at I6 or 
1200 RPM  which it does without any Joint 2 tracking errors.

John


>>
>> That reads like the spindle stop time is overly long to me.

Nope.

>>
>> Actually the spindle stops so quickly that I can hear the splines 
>> rattle in the pulley driver.
> 
> The stop should be so violent the rattle is preloaded to silence.
> 
> Do like I've done, add 2 timers in your hal file, one triggered by the 
> motions direction output, to start when the reverse come in, and is 
> stopped when the spindle has has stopped as indicated by another timer 
> set to retrigger for 10 milliseonds on every edge the comes out of the 
> spindle encoder. The idea it to use this 10 ms lag to indicate the 
> spindle is slowed enough to be reversed w/o tripping breakers all the 
> way to the substation, and display the time the first timer is stopped 
> at in a pyvcp box. I have additional hal stuff to block the reverse from 
> the spindle control until t is everything but dea stopped, then and only 
> then do I allow the reversed direction signal into the spindle control, 
> and the same limit3 then ramps it back up to the chosen speed, with a 
> mux4 steering the input to the limit3. So the stop is a very fast ramp 
> down, and the accel ramps it back up to the same speed in the other 
> direction. 3k max spindle speed fwd to 3k speed in reverse, in under 400 
> ms. z s/b able to follow that. If not, slow the limit3, giving z a 
> chance to catch up.� That is assuming the following fault is being 
> blamed on z..
> 
> I'm still convinced a lengthy stop is the problem.
> Z is following the encoder.
> So block the direction change by making a stop out of it until its 
> stopped, then allow the direction change thru and ramp it back up to 
> speed.� To do that right needs a 4 quadrant control.
> 
> Your stepper/servo's may be quite precise, but are they true 4 quadrant 
> control? IDK, but very few stepper drives we can afford are.
> 
> Jon's pwm-servo is, a vfd programmed correctly is. Both can stop the 
> motor by sucking the spin back out, storing that recovered energy in the 
> psu's filter caps, then using that over voltage to re-accell the motor 
> in the other direction and the only problem is the few ms of the 
> resultant over voltage on the filter caps. The over voltage spike is 
> there and gone again long before the caps fail short from overheating 
> due to the leakage at that voltage peak. I think that high voltage pulse 
> helps to keep an electrolytic formed. Both of my bigger machines are 
> past due for a 5 year recommended shotgun replacement with no sign of 
> ageing yet.
> 
> You may need to check the addf 

Re: [Emc-users] G33.1 error then g-code file parsed

[John Dammeyer]

Update!

[SPINDLE_9]
MAX_VELOCITY = 50.0
MAX_ACCELERATION = 30.0
# The values below should be 25% larger than MAX_VELOCITY and
MAX_ACCELERATION
# If using BACKLASH compensation STEPGEN_MAXACCEL should be 100% larger.
STEPGEN_MAXVEL = 62.50
STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 37.50

Now I can run S200 for tapping and I6 for the retract and it sounds overall
much smoother.

Not sure why I had the spindle acceleration set so high.
John


-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com] 
Sent: July 4, 2023 1:48 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G33.1 error then g-code file parsed

> The problem is under the covers somewhere and the Joint 2 following error
isn't totally accurate but is what happens later.
> John
> 

That reads like the spindle stop time is overly long to me.

Actually the spindle stops so quickly that I can hear the splines rattle in
the pulley driver.   I suspect that the spindle stops and then starts back
in the clockwise direction  too quickly and the Z axis can't do that fast
enough.  

My spindle is an AC Servo run with step/dir so I could change some values in
the ini file.

[SPINDLE_9]
MAX_VELOCITY = 50.0
#MAX_ACCELERATION = 30.0
MAX_ACCELERATION = 300.0
# The values below should be 25% larger than MAX_VELOCITY and
MAX_ACCELERATION
# If using BACKLASH compensation STEPGEN_MAXACCEL should be 100% larger.
STEPGEN_MAXVEL = 62.50
STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 375.00

The acceleration values of the spindle are dramatically faster than the Z
axis.
[JOINT_2]
TYPE = LINEAR
HOME = 0.0
FERROR = 0.05
MIN_FERROR = 0.01
# 3.2:1 Max Speed
MAX_VELOCITY = 2.50
MAX_ACCELERATION = 10.0
# The values below should be 25% larger than MAX_VELOCITY and
MAX_ACCELERATION
# If using BACKLASH compensation STEPGEN_MAXACCEL should be 100% larger.
STEPGEN_MAXVEL = 2.75
STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 20.0




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