Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 29 August 2019 01:24:19 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > Sent: August-28-19 9:32 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> >
> > On Wednesday 28 August 2019 23:18:28 John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > Yeah the backlash is pretty bad but even back in May 2007 when I
> > > bought it the cost for all that mass was quite low.  Now Grizzly
> > > doesn't even sell that model anymore and the closest unit is
> > > almost double.  Add an exchange rate of over 30% and installing
> > > ball screws will be cheap and has always been in the plans.
> > >
> > > I bought mine in Canada from House of Tools which is no longer
> > > around. But this link will get you to it at Grizzly
> > > https://www.grizzly.com/search?q=(g3616)
> >
> > And the spec sheet doesn't list backlash.  And backlash above 10
> > thou can get quickly messy.  And those screws aren't Nooks. I'd be
> > looking for a ball screw kit on fleabay. That will reduce the
> > backlash to around a thou and things will be much happier. They will
> > also need 5% of the motor torque to turn them compared to the acme
> > or square thread screws in it now.
>
> I put ball screws on my JGRO CNC router.  I found the 1/2" ACME screws
> I started with and the nylon nuts caused too much problems along with
> them not really being straight.
>
> What I found with the ball screws was they are much nicer but the
> longer one still suffers from whip if it turns too fast.  The plan is
> to add the second ball nut to remove what little backlash there is but
> also about 4" away from the first essentially making the ball nut 6"
> long.  That should reduce the whip considerably.
>
> I think for the Y axis on the mill it won't be a problem but the X is
> fairly long and the ACME screw is currently 25mm in diameter.   I'd
> want at least 5/8"  (16mm) and preferably 20mm.  Most of the cheap
> ball screws out there are far smaller.  And I have to fit the ball nut
> into the same place as the ACME nut.(which doesn't have any sort
> of backlash adjustment)

I have made adjustable, double nutted nooks, on 1/2" screws, but the nuts 
are around $50 a copy. Got backlash in the thou range but it took a big 
motor to spin it too.

I have a 1450mm long 25mm screw on my Sheldon 11x54. I put covering 
bellows over the screw on each side of the nut to keep the swarf at bay. 
Then I mounted the nut to a newly made apron plate such that the grease 
fitting was reachable. The only fly in that setup is that the left 
bellows is compressed enough to start lifting the carriage off the v-way 
when the carriage is under the chuck, and that effected the accuracy of 
the re-grind of the MT5 in the spindle bore a wee bit.  Seems the 
spindle was bent about 7 thou by the weight of the mounted chuck when it 
fell over and broke the compound beyond repair. Long before it followed 
me home. My z motion is limited to around 60 ipm by the motor, a 1600 
oz/in nema 34 whose inductance severely limits its top speed when only 
55 volts is available. Taking that motor off the go704 and replacing it 
with a 954 oz/in and an AC powered driver took the go704's z from 27 ipm 
to over 100 ipm, and I then used that motor on the sheldon, I should do 
the same with the sheldon.  Its a poor motor for almost anything but the 
knee of a big mill.

I have no problems with screw whip at the speeds I can move it now. I 
have considered remaking the apron as there is about 3/4" of room the 
nut could move to the right, which would ease the squeeze on the left 
hand bellows but while a new plate is on site, I've misslaid my round 
tuit. :) I'd also have to arrange an extension grease fitting. It worked 
well while replacing the barrel on "old meat in the pot" which a smaller 
bore in deference to the old mans shoulder telling him the 30-06 Ackley 
Improved he'd shot out 4 of since back in the 60's, was way more gun 
than needed in WV's hills.  So its now a 6.5 Creedmore, much easier on 
the shoulder and I'm still looking for that magic 1/2" load. 1" is easy, 
does that with almost everything I feed it.

Since the nut on the Z is stopped at a foot or more from either ends 
hanger bearings, I don't see much of a chance at whip being a huge 
problem on mine.

OTOH, I'd need to see how the apron on that one could be modified (or 
replaced as I did my old Sheldon) to mount the nut. I've even considered 
reversing the nuts install on the screw and putting it on the right hand 
edge of the aprons back, but that just moves the bellows crush problem 
to the tail stock end of the screw.  Sigh...

> John
>
> > > > 

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: August-28-19 9:32 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> 
> On Wednesday 28 August 2019 23:18:28 John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > Yeah the backlash is pretty bad but even back in May 2007 when I
> > bought it the cost for all that mass was quite low.  Now Grizzly
> > doesn't even sell that model anymore and the closest unit is almost
> > double.  Add an exchange rate of over 30% and installing ball screws
> > will be cheap and has always been in the plans.
> >
> > I bought mine in Canada from House of Tools which is no longer around.
> >   But this link will get you to it at Grizzly
> > https://www.grizzly.com/search?q=(g3616)
> 
> And the spec sheet doesn't list backlash.  And backlash above 10 thou can
> get quickly messy.  And those screws aren't Nooks. I'd be looking for a
> ball screw kit on fleabay. That will reduce the backlash to around a
> thou and things will be much happier. They will also need 5% of the
> motor torque to turn them compared to the acme or square thread screws
> in it now.
> 

I put ball screws on my JGRO CNC router.  I found the 1/2" ACME screws I 
started with and the nylon nuts caused too much problems along with them not 
really being straight.  

What I found with the ball screws was they are much nicer but the longer one 
still suffers from whip if it turns too fast.  The plan is to add the second 
ball nut to remove what little backlash there is but also about 4" away from 
the first essentially making the ball nut 6" long.  That should reduce the whip 
considerably.

I think for the Y axis on the mill it won't be a problem but the X is fairly 
long and the ACME screw is currently 25mm in diameter.   I'd want at least 5/8" 
 (16mm) and preferably 20mm.  Most of the cheap ball screws out there are far 
smaller.  And I have to fit the ball nut into the same place as the ACME nut.   
 (which doesn't have any sort of backlash adjustment)

John

> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: August-28-19 7:52 PM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> > >
> > > You must have a substantial amount of backlash?  The backlash is
> > > taken out at max axis acceleration.  that is why you need to have 2X
> > > acc for the stepgen_maxaccel.   There is a chance that the axis
> > > could be accelerating and the backlash taken out at the same time
> > > causing 2x the acceleration being sent to the stepgens.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:24 PM John Dammeyer
> > > 
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > Gene,
> > > >
> > > > You've got it backwards.  The parallel port version is correct
> > > > which is why that line is there.
> > > >
> > > > > > setpparport.0.pin-07-out-invert 1
> > > > >
> > > > > remove the above line, or set it false
> > > > >
> > > > > > net zdir=> parport.0.pin-07-out
> > > >
> > > > Peter Wallace suggested I do this:
> > > > "If you are using LinuxCNC 2.8 you can set the stepgens dir
> > > > polarity parameter."
> > > >
> > > > Can't find a "dir polarity" parameter here:
> > > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_parameters_3
> > > >
> > > > However there is an "invert_output" parameter .  Still nothing I
> > > > can find online really guides me in the direction of doing it with
> > > > port inversion or how to use that invert_output since the dmesg
> > > > instructions in the above
> > >
> > > web
> > >
> > > > link don't help.
> > > >
> > > > However the other suggestion from Peter which was to set the
> > > > stepgen
> > >
> > > scale
> > >
> > > > to minus.  Did that to both Z and Y axis and now homing works.
> > > >
> > > > I suspect because the parallel port implementation always reported
> > > > "unexpected real time delay" on start-up that it wasn't able to
> > > > actually keep up with the acceleration parameters in the .ini
> > > > file.  Now with the 7i92H, the acceleration on the Z axis is way
> > > > too high for the Gecko run stepper motor.  It's not losing steps
> > > > but doesn't sound happ

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 28 August 2019 23:18:28 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Yeah the backlash is pretty bad but even back in May 2007 when I
> bought it the cost for all that mass was quite low.  Now Grizzly
> doesn't even sell that model anymore and the closest unit is almost
> double.  Add an exchange rate of over 30% and installing ball screws
> will be cheap and has always been in the plans.
>
> I bought mine in Canada from House of Tools which is no longer around.
>   But this link will get you to it at Grizzly
> https://www.grizzly.com/search?q=(g3616)
>
And the spec sheet doesn't list backlash.  And backlash above 10 thou can 
get quickly messy.  And those screws aren't Nooks. I'd be looking for a 
ball screw kit on fleabay. That will reduce the backlash to around a 
thou and things will be much happier. They will also need 5% of the 
motor torque to turn them compared to the acme or square thread screws 
in it now.

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: August-28-19 7:52 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> >
> > You must have a substantial amount of backlash?  The backlash is
> > taken out at max axis acceleration.  that is why you need to have 2X
> > acc for the stepgen_maxaccel.   There is a chance that the axis
> > could be accelerating and the backlash taken out at the same time
> > causing 2x the acceleration being sent to the stepgens.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:24 PM John Dammeyer
> > 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > Gene,
> > >
> > > You've got it backwards.  The parallel port version is correct
> > > which is why that line is there.
> > >
> > > > > setpparport.0.pin-07-out-invert 1
> > > >
> > > > remove the above line, or set it false
> > > >
> > > > > net zdir=> parport.0.pin-07-out
> > >
> > > Peter Wallace suggested I do this:
> > > "If you are using LinuxCNC 2.8 you can set the stepgens dir
> > > polarity parameter."
> > >
> > > Can't find a "dir polarity" parameter here:
> > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_parameters_3
> > >
> > > However there is an "invert_output" parameter .  Still nothing I
> > > can find online really guides me in the direction of doing it with
> > > port inversion or how to use that invert_output since the dmesg
> > > instructions in the above
> >
> > web
> >
> > > link don't help.
> > >
> > > However the other suggestion from Peter which was to set the
> > > stepgen
> >
> > scale
> >
> > > to minus.  Did that to both Z and Y axis and now homing works.
> > >
> > > I suspect because the parallel port implementation always reported
> > > "unexpected real time delay" on start-up that it wasn't able to
> > > actually keep up with the acceleration parameters in the .ini
> > > file.  Now with the 7i92H, the acceleration on the Z axis is way
> > > too high for the Gecko run stepper motor.  It's not losing steps
> > > but doesn't sound happy.  A bit of tweaking with values and it's
> > > much smoother.
> > >
> > > I've also played around with the Y axis acceleration since it too
> > > has a lot of mass to move; not only the X axis but also the X axis
> > >  table rotation mass.  That's why the DC Servo has 4:1 instead of
> > > 3:1 reduction like the X.  Max ipm is therefore 120ipm for Y and
> > > 150ipm for X. For the knee with the Gecko and 3:1 to the bevel
> > > gear I get 24ipm.  Any higher
> >
> > than
> >
> > > that and the stepper will skip.
> > >
> > > The backlash compensation is also far harsher.  A series of jogs
> > > in the same direction create almost no vibration on the head of
> > > the mill (hand placed against it) but change direction and my hand
> > > feels the bump as the backlash is first taken up.  This was
> > > especially noticeable on the knee with the slight bevel gear
> > > connection to the knee screw until I dropped acceleration to a
> > > much lower value than I had on the parallel port version.
> > >
> > > The 7i92H requires the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL to be double  the
> > > MAX_ACCELERATION.  Setting it lower than that caused strange
> > > motion problems so I suspect the only way to get rid of the hard
> > > bump as backlash is taken out is to also reduce axis acceler

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

> > Do I just add this to the HAL file?
> > setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.direction.invert_output TRUE
> >
> > Is it that simple?
> > John
> 
> It is that simple if you are using 2.8 and above
> 

Well that explains it.  Help | About says LinuxCNC/Axis 2.7.14

I'm good with changing the sign on the scale parameter.  I now need to merge in 
the other 'features' that are in the parallel port version like my MPG.  And 
continue writing up my change over document.
John


> Your list above shows no parameters
> 
> the command should be
> 
> halcmd show all *stepgen*
> 
> 
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 28 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 21:05:58 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

This what the halcmd produced for the Y axis.

   28  bit   IN   TRUE  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.control-type
   28  s32   OUT-31361  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.counts
   28  float OUT 0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dbg_err_at_match
   28  float OUT 0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dbg_ff_vel
   28  float OUT 0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dbg_pos_minus_prev_cmd
   28  float OUT 0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dbg_s_to_match
   28  s32   OUT 0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dbg_step_rate
   28  float OUT 0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dbg_vel_error
   28  bit   IN   TRUE  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.enable <== z-enable
   28  float IN  0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.position-cmd
   28  float OUT  1.306705  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.position-fb ==> z-pos-fb
   28  float IN  0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.velocity-cmd <== z-output
   28  float OUT 0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.velocity-fb

There is no line like this.

 26  bit   RW  FALSE  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.direction.invert_output


Do I just add this to the HAL file?
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.direction.invert_output TRUE

Is it that simple?
John


It is that simple if you are using 2.8 and above

Your list above shows no parameters

the command should be

halcmd show all *stepgen*


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

This what the halcmd produced for the Y axis.

28  bit   IN   TRUE  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.control-type
28  s32   OUT-31361  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.counts
28  float OUT 0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dbg_err_at_match
28  float OUT 0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dbg_ff_vel
28  float OUT 0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dbg_pos_minus_prev_cmd
28  float OUT 0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dbg_s_to_match
28  s32   OUT 0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dbg_step_rate
28  float OUT 0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dbg_vel_error
28  bit   IN   TRUE  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.enable <== z-enable
28  float IN  0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.position-cmd
28  float OUT  1.306705  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.position-fb ==> z-pos-fb
28  float IN  0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.velocity-cmd <== z-output
28  float OUT 0  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.velocity-fb

There is no line like this.
>  26  bit   RW  FALSE  
> hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.direction.invert_output

Do I just add this to the HAL file?
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.direction.invert_output TRUE

Is it that simple?
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
> Sent: August-28-19 8:45 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> 
> On Wed, 28 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 19:22:09 -0700
> > From: John Dammeyer 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'"  us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> >
> > Gene,
> >
> > You've got it backwards.  The parallel port version is correct which is why
> that line is there.
> >>> setp  parport.0.pin-07-out-invert 1
> >> remove the above line, or set it false
> >>> net   zdir=> parport.0.pin-07-out
> >
> > Peter Wallace suggested I do this:
> > "If you are using LinuxCNC 2.8 you can set the stepgens dir polarity
> parameter."
> >
> > Can't find a "dir polarity" parameter here:
> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_parameters_3
> 
> The names would be similar to
> 
> hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.direction.invert_output
> 
> Note that these are only available in  LinuxCNC 2.8 and above
> 
> A good way to list all stepgen related pins/parameters/signals is:
> 
> halcmd show all *stepgen* :
> 
> 
> peter@dc7800:~/linuxcnc/configs$ halcmd show all *stepgen*
> Loaded HAL Components:
> ID  Type  NamePID   State
> 
> Component Pins:
> Owner   Type  Dir Value  Name
>  26  bit   IN   TRUE  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.control-type
>  26  s32   OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.counts
>  26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.dbg_err_at_match
>  26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.dbg_ff_vel
>  26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.dbg_pos_minus_prev_cmd
>  26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.dbg_s_to_match
>  26  s32   OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.dbg_step_rate
>  26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.dbg_vel_error
>  26  bit   IN  FALSE  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.enable <==
> emcmot.00.enable
>  26  float IN  0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.position-cmd
>  26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.position-fb ==> fb0
>  26  float IN  0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.velocity-cmd <==
> motor.00.command
>  26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.velocity-fb
>  26  bit   IN   TRUE  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.control-type
>  26  s32   OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.counts
>  26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.dbg_err_at_match
>  26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.dbg_ff_vel
>  26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.dbg_pos_minus_prev_cmd
>  26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.dbg_s_to_match
>  26  s32   OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.dbg_step_rate
>  26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.dbg_vel_error
>  26  bit   IN  FALSE  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.enable <==
> emcmot.01.enable
>  26  float IN  0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.position-cmd
>  26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.position-fb ==> fb1
>  26  float IN  0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.velocity-cmd <==
> motor.01.command
>  26  flo

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 28 August 2019 23:18:28 John Dammeyer wrote:

> One other little detail that has shown up once the LinuxCNC was run
> with the 7i92H configuration.  And may not be the 7i92H
>
> The AXIS display shows that 3D perspective of the tool path.  With the
> parallel port version the tool image (a grey cone) is in line with the
> Z axis.  For some reason the 7i92H version has the cone lying on its
> side.  It still traces the correct path but it's like someone kicked
> it over and it's valiantly trying to trace the path.
>
> How do I pick it up again?
>
Thats probably in the tool table. Theres a section in the 
Documentation.pdf that might address that.  Its a per tool setting 
though.

> John
>
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 28 August 2019 22:22:09 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Gene,
>
> You've got it backwards.  The parallel port version is correct which
> is why that line is there.
>
> > > setp  parport.0.pin-07-out-invert 1
> >
setp to 1 is also true, setp to 0 is false. It may be right or wrong, but 
one of them should reverse the signal anyway.

> > remove the above line, or set it false
> >
> > > net   zdir=> parport.0.pin-07-out
>
> Peter Wallace suggested I do this:
> "If you are using LinuxCNC 2.8 you can set the stepgens dir polarity
> parameter."
>
> Can't find a "dir polarity" parameter here:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_parameters_3
>
> However there is an "invert_output" parameter.

Which must be setp true (or 1) to be effective. Using true/false makes 
for an easier read file by a future-you I think.

> Still nothing I can 
> find online really guides me in the direction of doing it with port
> inversion or how to use that invert_output since the dmesg
> instructions in the above web link don't help.
>
> However the other suggestion from Peter which was to set the stepgen
> scale to minus.  Did that to both Z and Y axis and now homing works.

One can also reverse the motor direction by swapping (interchanging) 
either the A wires, or (but not both) the B wires at the driver to motor 
joint. Usually on the drivers output connections.

To further confuse things, the search_vel and such in your .ini file can 
also be reversed by a sign change.  Way too many places for it to bite 
you.

Direction control by swapping motor wires, or changing the sign of the 
scale is generally done so the keyboard movement is like moving a hole 
in the direction of the keypress. An uparrow typically pulls the table 
toward you, moving the "hole" to the rear of the table.  A right arrow 
press should move the table left, effectively moving the hole to the 
right. Conversely a page up raises the quill or lowers the knee while a 
page down lowers the quill or raises the knee. I get those right before 
I start sprinkling minus signs around in the search_vel boxes.

This also tends to reduce the surprises between gcode generators and 
machine movements.

> I suspect because the parallel port implementation always reported 
> "unexpected real time delay" on start-up that it wasn't able to
> actually keep up with the acceleration parameters in the .ini file.

You do have some pretty brutal settings, jerking the machine around a 
bit. I'd cut the starter vels by 2/3rds as the more gentle acells will 
get you faster rapids.

> Now with the 7i92H, the acceleration on the Z axis is way too high for
> the Gecko run stepper motor.  It's not losing steps but doesn't sound
> happy.  A bit of tweaking with values and it's much smoother.

Gecko's I have zero experience with, but I've heard rumors of early 
capacitor failures. You may want to get an ESR meter and survey them for 
high ESR'S, anything over 100 uf that reads over an ohm of ESR is 
suspect. Over 2 ohms, replace.
>
> I've also played around with the Y axis acceleration since it too has
> a lot of mass to move; not only the X axis but also the X axis  table
> rotation mass.  That's why the DC Servo has 4:1 instead of 3:1
> reduction like the X.  Max ipm is therefore 120ipm for Y and 150ipm
> for X. For the knee with the Gecko and 3:1 to the bevel gear I get
> 24ipm.  Any higher than that and the stepper will skip.
>
> The backlash compensation is also far harsher.  A series of jogs in
> the same direction create almost no vibration on the head of the mill
> (hand placed against it) but change direction and my hand feels the
> bump as the backlash is first taken up.  This was especially
> noticeable on the knee with the slight bevel gear connection to the
> knee screw until I dropped acceleration to a much lower value than I
> had on the parallel port version.
>
> The 7i92H requires the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL to be double  the
> MAX_ACCELERATION.  Setting it lower than that caused strange motion
> problems so I suspect the only way to get rid of the hard bump as
> backlash is taken out is to also reduce axis acceleration.
>
> Or buy ball screws which is on the list...
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 28 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 19:22:09 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

Gene,

You've got it backwards.  The parallel port version is correct which is why 
that line is there.

setpparport.0.pin-07-out-invert 1

remove the above line, or set it false

net zdir=> parport.0.pin-07-out


Peter Wallace suggested I do this:
"If you are using LinuxCNC 2.8 you can set the stepgens dir polarity parameter."

Can't find a "dir polarity" parameter here:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_parameters_3


The names would be similar to

hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.direction.invert_output

Note that these are only available in  LinuxCNC 2.8 and above

A good way to list all stepgen related pins/parameters/signals is:

halcmd show all *stepgen* :


peter@dc7800:~/linuxcnc/configs$ halcmd show all *stepgen*
Loaded HAL Components:
ID  Type  NamePID   State

Component Pins:
Owner   Type  Dir Value  Name
26  bit   IN   TRUE  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.control-type
26  s32   OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.counts
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.dbg_err_at_match
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.dbg_ff_vel
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.dbg_pos_minus_prev_cmd
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.dbg_s_to_match
26  s32   OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.dbg_step_rate
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.dbg_vel_error
26  bit   IN  FALSE  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.enable <== 
emcmot.00.enable

26  float IN  0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.position-cmd
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.position-fb ==> fb0
26  float IN  0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.velocity-cmd <== 
motor.00.command

26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.00.velocity-fb
26  bit   IN   TRUE  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.control-type
26  s32   OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.counts
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.dbg_err_at_match
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.dbg_ff_vel
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.dbg_pos_minus_prev_cmd
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.dbg_s_to_match
26  s32   OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.dbg_step_rate
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.dbg_vel_error
26  bit   IN  FALSE  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.enable <== 
emcmot.01.enable

26  float IN  0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.position-cmd
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.position-fb ==> fb1
26  float IN  0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.velocity-cmd <== 
motor.01.command

26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.01.velocity-fb
26  bit   IN   TRUE  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.02.control-type
26  s32   OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.02.counts
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.02.dbg_err_at_match
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.02.dbg_ff_vel
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.02.dbg_pos_minus_prev_cmd
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.02.dbg_s_to_match
26  s32   OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.02.dbg_step_rate
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.02.dbg_vel_error
26  bit   IN  FALSE  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.02.enable <== 
emcmot.02.enable

26  float IN  0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.02.position-cmd
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.02.position-fb ==> fb2
26  float IN  0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.02.velocity-cmd <== 
motor.02.command

26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.02.velocity-fb
26  bit   IN  FALSE  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.03.control-type
26  s32   OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.03.counts
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.03.dbg_err_at_match
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.03.dbg_ff_vel
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.03.dbg_pos_minus_prev_cmd
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.03.dbg_s_to_match
26  s32   OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.03.dbg_step_rate
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.03.dbg_vel_error
26  bit   IN  FALSE  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.03.enable
26  float IN  0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.03.position-cmd
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.03.position-fb
26  float IN  0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.03.velocity-cmd
26  float OUT 0  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.03.velocity-fb
26  s32   IN  1  hm2_7i95.0.stepgen.timer-number

P

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

One other little detail that has shown up once the LinuxCNC was run with the 
7i92H configuration.  And may not be the 7i92H

The AXIS display shows that 3D perspective of the tool path.  With the parallel 
port version the tool image (a grey cone) is in line with the Z axis.  For some 
reason the 7i92H version has the cone lying on its side.  It still traces the 
correct path but it's like someone kicked it over and it's valiantly trying to 
trace the path.  

How do I pick it up again?

John




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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

Yeah the backlash is pretty bad but even back in May 2007 when I bought it the 
cost for all that mass was quite low.  Now Grizzly doesn't even sell that model 
anymore and the closest unit is almost double.  Add an exchange rate of over 
30% and installing ball screws will be cheap and has always been in the plans.

I bought mine in Canada from House of Tools which is no longer around.   But 
this link will get you to it at Grizzly
https://www.grizzly.com/search?q=(g3616)


> -Original Message-
> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August-28-19 7:52 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> 
> You must have a substantial amount of backlash?  The backlash is taken out
> at max axis acceleration.  that is why you need to have 2X acc for the
> stepgen_maxaccel.   There is a chance that the axis could be accelerating
> and the backlash taken out at the same time causing 2x the acceleration
> being sent to the stepgens.
> 
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:24 PM John Dammeyer
> 
> wrote:
> 
> > Gene,
> >
> > You've got it backwards.  The parallel port version is correct which is
> > why that line is there.
> > > > setpparport.0.pin-07-out-invert 1
> > > remove the above line, or set it false
> > > > net zdir=> parport.0.pin-07-out
> >
> > Peter Wallace suggested I do this:
> > "If you are using LinuxCNC 2.8 you can set the stepgens dir polarity
> > parameter."
> >
> > Can't find a "dir polarity" parameter here:
> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_parameters_3
> >
> > However there is an "invert_output" parameter .  Still nothing I can find
> > online really guides me in the direction of doing it with port inversion or
> > how to use that invert_output since the dmesg instructions in the above
> web
> > link don't help.
> >
> > However the other suggestion from Peter which was to set the stepgen
> scale
> > to minus.  Did that to both Z and Y axis and now homing works.
> >
> > I suspect because the parallel port implementation always reported
> > "unexpected real time delay" on start-up that it wasn't able to actually
> > keep up with the acceleration parameters in the .ini file.  Now with the
> > 7i92H, the acceleration on the Z axis is way too high for the Gecko run
> > stepper motor.  It's not losing steps but doesn't sound happy.  A bit of
> > tweaking with values and it's much smoother.
> >
> > I've also played around with the Y axis acceleration since it too has a
> > lot of mass to move; not only the X axis but also the X axis  table
> > rotation mass.  That's why the DC Servo has 4:1 instead of 3:1 reduction
> > like the X.  Max ipm is therefore 120ipm for Y and 150ipm for X. For the
> > knee with the Gecko and 3:1 to the bevel gear I get 24ipm.  Any higher
> than
> > that and the stepper will skip.
> >
> > The backlash compensation is also far harsher.  A series of jogs in the
> > same direction create almost no vibration on the head of the mill (hand
> > placed against it) but change direction and my hand feels the bump as the
> > backlash is first taken up.  This was especially noticeable on the knee
> > with the slight bevel gear connection to the knee screw until I dropped
> > acceleration to a much lower value than I had on the parallel port version.
> >
> > The 7i92H requires the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL to be double  the
> > MAX_ACCELERATION.  Setting it lower than that caused strange motion
> > problems so I suspect the only way to get rid of the hard bump as backlash
> > is taken out is to also reduce axis acceleration.
> >
> > Or buy ball screws which is on the list...
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Sam Sokolik]

You must have a substantial amount of backlash?  The backlash is taken out
at max axis acceleration.  that is why you need to have 2X acc for the
stepgen_maxaccel.   There is a chance that the axis could be accelerating
and the backlash taken out at the same time causing 2x the acceleration
being sent to the stepgens.

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:24 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> Gene,
>
> You've got it backwards.  The parallel port version is correct which is
> why that line is there.
> > > setpparport.0.pin-07-out-invert 1
> > remove the above line, or set it false
> > > net zdir=> parport.0.pin-07-out
>
> Peter Wallace suggested I do this:
> "If you are using LinuxCNC 2.8 you can set the stepgens dir polarity
> parameter."
>
> Can't find a "dir polarity" parameter here:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_parameters_3
>
> However there is an "invert_output" parameter .  Still nothing I can find
> online really guides me in the direction of doing it with port inversion or
> how to use that invert_output since the dmesg instructions in the above web
> link don't help.
>
> However the other suggestion from Peter which was to set the stepgen scale
> to minus.  Did that to both Z and Y axis and now homing works.
>
> I suspect because the parallel port implementation always reported
> "unexpected real time delay" on start-up that it wasn't able to actually
> keep up with the acceleration parameters in the .ini file.  Now with the
> 7i92H, the acceleration on the Z axis is way too high for the Gecko run
> stepper motor.  It's not losing steps but doesn't sound happy.  A bit of
> tweaking with values and it's much smoother.
>
> I've also played around with the Y axis acceleration since it too has a
> lot of mass to move; not only the X axis but also the X axis  table
> rotation mass.  That's why the DC Servo has 4:1 instead of 3:1 reduction
> like the X.  Max ipm is therefore 120ipm for Y and 150ipm for X. For the
> knee with the Gecko and 3:1 to the bevel gear I get 24ipm.  Any higher than
> that and the stepper will skip.
>
> The backlash compensation is also far harsher.  A series of jogs in the
> same direction create almost no vibration on the head of the mill (hand
> placed against it) but change direction and my hand feels the bump as the
> backlash is first taken up.  This was especially noticeable on the knee
> with the slight bevel gear connection to the knee screw until I dropped
> acceleration to a much lower value than I had on the parallel port version.
>
> The 7i92H requires the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL to be double  the
> MAX_ACCELERATION.  Setting it lower than that caused strange motion
> problems so I suspect the only way to get rid of the hard bump as backlash
> is taken out is to also reduce axis acceleration.
>
> Or buy ball screws which is on the list...
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

Gene,

You've got it backwards.  The parallel port version is correct which is why 
that line is there.
> > setpparport.0.pin-07-out-invert 1
> remove the above line, or set it false
> > net zdir=> parport.0.pin-07-out

Peter Wallace suggested I do this:
"If you are using LinuxCNC 2.8 you can set the stepgens dir polarity parameter."

Can't find a "dir polarity" parameter here:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#_parameters_3

However there is an "invert_output" parameter .  Still nothing I can find 
online really guides me in the direction of doing it with port inversion or how 
to use that invert_output since the dmesg instructions in the above web link 
don't help. 

However the other suggestion from Peter which was to set the stepgen scale to 
minus.  Did that to both Z and Y axis and now homing works.

I suspect because the parallel port implementation always reported  "unexpected 
real time delay" on start-up that it wasn't able to actually keep up with the 
acceleration parameters in the .ini file.  Now with the 7i92H, the acceleration 
on the Z axis is way too high for the Gecko run stepper motor.  It's not losing 
steps but doesn't sound happy.  A bit of tweaking with values and it's much 
smoother.

I've also played around with the Y axis acceleration since it too has a lot of 
mass to move; not only the X axis but also the X axis  table rotation mass.  
That's why the DC Servo has 4:1 instead of 3:1 reduction like the X.  Max ipm 
is therefore 120ipm for Y and 150ipm for X. For the knee with the Gecko and 3:1 
to the bevel gear I get 24ipm.  Any higher than that and the stepper will skip.

The backlash compensation is also far harsher.  A series of jogs in the same 
direction create almost no vibration on the head of the mill (hand placed 
against it) but change direction and my hand feels the bump as the backlash is 
first taken up.  This was especially noticeable on the knee with the slight 
bevel gear connection to the knee screw until I dropped acceleration to a much 
lower value than I had on the parallel port version.

The 7i92H requires the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL to be double  the MAX_ACCELERATION.  
Setting it lower than that caused strange motion problems so I suspect the only 
way to get rid of the hard bump as backlash is taken out is to also reduce axis 
acceleration.

Or buy ball screws which is on the list...

John










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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 28 August 2019 20:24:42 John Dammeyer wrote:

> I've finally had some time to get back to the CNC upgrade and I copied
> the test machine config folder to the Mill PC.  Once I got the correct
> parallel port cable straightened around to actually not fault on Limit
> switches the jog buttons created motion.
>
> I can report that the Y axis behaved really badly with shuddering
> during the first part of higher speed motion when MAX_ACCELERATION =
> 15.0
> # The values below should be 25% larger than MAX_VELOCITY and
> MAX_ACCELERATION # If using BACKLASH compensation STEPGEN_MAXACCEL
> should be 100% larger. STEPGEN_MAXVEL = 2.5
> STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 18.75
>
> I changed the values to match the Parallel port version
> MAX_ACCELERATION = 15.0
> STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 35.0
>
> And motion went back to nice and smooth.  Initial testing didn't have
> backlash compensation uncommented.
>
> 
> Now a new problem or not so much a problem but I can't figure out how
> to fix it and it's probably right in front of my nose.
>
> The Z axis is a knee, not a quill and on the 7i92H the knee is now
> going in the wrong direction.  On the parallel port version I have
> this invert 1  in the hal file to make the knee go in the correct
> direction.
>
> net   zstep   => parport.0.pin-06-out
> setp  parport.0.pin-06-out-reset 1
> setp  parport.0.pin-07-out-invert 1
remove the above line, or set it false
> net   zdir=> parport.0.pin-07-out
>
> I can't see anything in the 7i92H hal that would invert the direction
> signal out to the stepper driver.  What am I missing?
> #***
> #  AXIS Z
> #***
> setp   pid.z.Pgain [AXIS_2]P
> setp   pid.z.Igain [AXIS_2]I
> setp   pid.z.Dgain [AXIS_2]D
> setp   pid.z.bias  [AXIS_2]BIAS
> setp   pid.z.FF0   [AXIS_2]FF0
> setp   pid.z.FF1   [AXIS_2]FF1
> setp   pid.z.FF2   [AXIS_2]FF2
> setp   pid.z.deadband  [AXIS_2]DEADBAND
> setp   pid.z.maxoutput [AXIS_2]MAX_OUTPUT
> setp   pid.z.error-previous-target true
> #setp   pid.z.maxerror .0005
>
> net z-index-enable  <=> pid.z.index-enable
> net z-enable=>  pid.z.enable
> net z-pos-cmd   =>  pid.z.command
> #net z-vel-cmd   =>  pid.z.command-deriv
> net z-pos-fb=>  pid.z.feedback
> net z-output=>  pid.z.output
>
> # Step Gen signals/setup
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dirsetup[AXIS_2]DIRSETUP
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dirhold [AXIS_2]DIRHOLD
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.steplen [AXIS_2]STEPLEN
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.stepspace   [AXIS_2]STEPSPACE
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.position-scale  [AXIS_2]STEP_SCALE
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.step_type0
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.control-type 1
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.maxaccel [AXIS_2]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.maxvel   [AXIS_2]STEPGEN_MAXVEL
>
> # ---closedloop stepper signals---
> net z-pos-cmd<= axis.2.motor-pos-cmd
> net z-vel-cmd<= axis.2.joint-vel-cmd
> net z-output => hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.velocity-cmd
> net z-pos-fb <= hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.position-fb
> net z-pos-fb => axis.2.motor-pos-fb
> net z-enable <= axis.2.amp-enable-out
> net z-enable => hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.enable
>
> net max-home-z => axis.2.home-sw-in
> net max-x-y-min-z => axis.2.neg-lim-sw-in
> net max-home-z => axis.2.pos-lim-sw-in
>
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Peter C. Wallace]

Now a new problem or not so much a problem but I can't figure out how to fix it 
and it's probably right in front of my nose.

The Z axis is a knee, not a quill and on the 7i92H the knee is now going in the 
wrong direction.  On the parallel port version I have this invert 1  in the hal 
file to make the knee go in the correct direction.


If you are using LinuxCNC 2.8 you can set the stepgens dir polarity parameter.

on 2.7 (and 2.8)  you can change the sign of the stepgen scale (or set the 
polarity parameter for the gpio pin that corresponds to the stepgen dir pin)





net zstep   => parport.0.pin-06-out
setpparport.0.pin-06-out-reset 1
setpparport.0.pin-07-out-invert 1
net zdir=> parport.0.pin-07-out

I can't see anything in the 7i92H hal that would invert the direction signal 
out to the stepper driver.  What am I missing?



Note that whats in the hal file is just whats in that particular hal file,
if you want to see all pins/parameters for the loaded components, do this when 
linuxcnc is running:


halcmd show all > all.txt



 #***

#  AXIS Z
#***
setp   pid.z.Pgain [AXIS_2]P
setp   pid.z.Igain [AXIS_2]I
setp   pid.z.Dgain [AXIS_2]D
setp   pid.z.bias  [AXIS_2]BIAS
setp   pid.z.FF0   [AXIS_2]FF0
setp   pid.z.FF1   [AXIS_2]FF1
setp   pid.z.FF2   [AXIS_2]FF2
setp   pid.z.deadband  [AXIS_2]DEADBAND
setp   pid.z.maxoutput [AXIS_2]MAX_OUTPUT
setp   pid.z.error-previous-target true
#setp   pid.z.maxerror .0005

net z-index-enable  <=> pid.z.index-enable
net z-enable=>  pid.z.enable
net z-pos-cmd   =>  pid.z.command
#net z-vel-cmd   =>  pid.z.command-deriv
net z-pos-fb=>  pid.z.feedback
net z-output=>  pid.z.output

# Step Gen signals/setup
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dirsetup[AXIS_2]DIRSETUP
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dirhold [AXIS_2]DIRHOLD
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.steplen [AXIS_2]STEPLEN
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.stepspace   [AXIS_2]STEPSPACE
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.position-scale  [AXIS_2]STEP_SCALE
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.step_type0
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.control-type 1
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.maxaccel [AXIS_2]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.maxvel   [AXIS_2]STEPGEN_MAXVEL

# ---closedloop stepper signals---
net z-pos-cmd<= axis.2.motor-pos-cmd
net z-vel-cmd<= axis.2.joint-vel-cmd
net z-output => hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.velocity-cmd
net z-pos-fb <= hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.position-fb
net z-pos-fb => axis.2.motor-pos-fb
net z-enable <= axis.2.amp-enable-out
net z-enable => hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.enable

net max-home-z => axis.2.home-sw-in
net max-x-y-min-z => axis.2.neg-lim-sw-in
net max-home-z => axis.2.pos-lim-sw-in




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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

(\__/)
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(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

I've finally had some time to get back to the CNC upgrade and I copied the test 
machine config folder to the Mill PC.  Once I got the correct parallel port 
cable straightened around to actually not fault on Limit switches the jog 
buttons created motion.

I can report that the Y axis behaved really badly with shuddering during the 
first part of higher speed motion when
MAX_ACCELERATION = 15.0
# The values below should be 25% larger than MAX_VELOCITY and MAX_ACCELERATION
# If using BACKLASH compensation STEPGEN_MAXACCEL should be 100% larger.
STEPGEN_MAXVEL = 2.5
STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 18.75

I changed the values to match the Parallel port version
MAX_ACCELERATION = 15.0
STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 35.0

And motion went back to nice and smooth.  Initial testing didn't have backlash 
compensation uncommented.  


Now a new problem or not so much a problem but I can't figure out how to fix it 
and it's probably right in front of my nose.

The Z axis is a knee, not a quill and on the 7i92H the knee is now going in the 
wrong direction.  On the parallel port version I have this invert 1  in the hal 
file to make the knee go in the correct direction.  

net zstep   => parport.0.pin-06-out
setpparport.0.pin-06-out-reset 1
setpparport.0.pin-07-out-invert 1
net zdir=> parport.0.pin-07-out

I can't see anything in the 7i92H hal that would invert the direction signal 
out to the stepper driver.  What am I missing?
#***
#  AXIS Z
#***
setp   pid.z.Pgain [AXIS_2]P
setp   pid.z.Igain [AXIS_2]I
setp   pid.z.Dgain [AXIS_2]D
setp   pid.z.bias  [AXIS_2]BIAS
setp   pid.z.FF0   [AXIS_2]FF0
setp   pid.z.FF1   [AXIS_2]FF1
setp   pid.z.FF2   [AXIS_2]FF2
setp   pid.z.deadband  [AXIS_2]DEADBAND
setp   pid.z.maxoutput [AXIS_2]MAX_OUTPUT
setp   pid.z.error-previous-target true
#setp   pid.z.maxerror .0005

net z-index-enable  <=> pid.z.index-enable
net z-enable=>  pid.z.enable
net z-pos-cmd   =>  pid.z.command
#net z-vel-cmd   =>  pid.z.command-deriv
net z-pos-fb=>  pid.z.feedback
net z-output=>  pid.z.output

# Step Gen signals/setup
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dirsetup[AXIS_2]DIRSETUP
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.dirhold [AXIS_2]DIRHOLD
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.steplen [AXIS_2]STEPLEN
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.stepspace   [AXIS_2]STEPSPACE
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.position-scale  [AXIS_2]STEP_SCALE
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.step_type0
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.control-type 1
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.maxaccel [AXIS_2]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.maxvel   [AXIS_2]STEPGEN_MAXVEL

# ---closedloop stepper signals---
net z-pos-cmd<= axis.2.motor-pos-cmd
net z-vel-cmd<= axis.2.joint-vel-cmd
net z-output => hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.velocity-cmd
net z-pos-fb <= hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.position-fb
net z-pos-fb => axis.2.motor-pos-fb
net z-enable <= axis.2.amp-enable-out
net z-enable => hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.02.enable

net max-home-z => axis.2.home-sw-in
net max-x-y-min-z => axis.2.neg-lim-sw-in
net max-home-z => axis.2.pos-lim-sw-in




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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 24 August 2019 15:01:51 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > > On Saturday 24 August 2019 12:46:28 John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > > > > I already have my mill running with a single parallel port
> > > > > > but the single phase motor is still controlled with a switch
> > > > > > because I'm too lazy to temporarily wire in a relay.  What I
> > > > > > do have for my mill is a sweet Bergerda 1.8kW AC Servo that
> > > > > > works very nicely with step/dir signals and has a 2500 line
> > > > > > encoder (10,000 pulses per rev) which means it needs more
> > > > > > than the parallel port can deliver.
> > > >
> > > > And I can also program in a numerator/denominator pair on the
> > > > encoder outputs.  So I can make the motor encoder appear like
> > > > one that has 200 pulses per rev.   Aside from the poor manual
> > > > I'm really liking the Bergerda AC Servos.  I may be ordering
> > > > some more in the near future.
> >
> > Found the site, chinky of course, Model #?
>
> The small motor to replace the Automation Technologies Inc 1.27Nm
> Brushed DC Servo is a 60SM-M0130NAL controlled with the SDD04-NK7D. 
> The big motor for the spindle is a 110SM-M0630ZAL and rated at 1.8kW
> or just over 2HP replacing a huge 2HP single phase motor.
>
> The support from their factory rep in China has been spectacular. 
> English/Chinese is definitely an issue and has led to some confusion
> but it's nice dealing with the actual factory and the design
> engineers. I'm not totally happy yet with their ModBus RS422
> interface.  Once the motors are enabled there is a significant amount
> of electrical noise coupled onto the communications lines.  For an
> extra charge they will opto-isolate that interface.  I'm investigating
> that avenue but haven't made a decision yet.
>
That sounds more like a ground loop. You may want to check that, or run a 
bidi rs485 all the way, which should be compatible with the 422 once 
converted back to ttl at the end. $2 & change a copy on fleabay.

> But all in all I'm finding I'd buy from them again.  And in fact
> perfectly willing to arrange a bulk purchase to save shipping costs
> but I guess right now for Americans, even talking to China right now
> is like talking to the devil?
>
> Not a problem in Canada so far.  I suppose if I value added something
> to the motor/driver combination to make it "Canadian" then the same
> duties into the USA might not apply?

So far in my old $dayjob as a broadcast engineer experience, only proof 
the fee has been paid once is adequate.  And the guys at the shack on 
the border officially don't give a shit if it spends 2 weeks out in the 
weather, raining everyday while its waiting on the forms.  I've had to 
put stuff from Norpack in the stations kitchen oven at 150F for a day or 
2 to get it dry enough to plug in a line cord for a smoke test a couple 
times.  That does not a happy camper make. Getting adequate paperwork 
for that was such a pain for stuff CBS bought from north of the border 
was such a headache that the 3rd time that gismo had to be sent north 
for service (they didn't give us schematics) that I sent it to CBS to 
make the headache theirs. I got it back faster too.. It was eventually 
replaced with a US made product.  It too was a piece of junk, but did 
have schematics.

Nap time...

> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August-24-19 12:07 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> 
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 8:41 PM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I will state that encoders with less than 1000 counts per turn aren't
> > going to be ultimately usefull on a mill where its also stablilizing
> > speed, but even a 240 count I am getting from hall effect sensors
> 
> 
> There is a trick to making this work.If you have a
> low-resolution encoder, what you do is NOT count the number of "ticks" per
> time interval. But rather measure the number of nanoseconds (not
> microseconds) between each "tick"
> 
> Then you control the motor voltage to keep the number of nanoseconds at
> the
> desited value.In practice you sample a fast clock or counter on each
> encoder edge.   Gives very accurate results even with poor encoders.


Essentially that's how my ELS can thread with one pulse per revolution.  As 
long as the spindle drive is stable and doesn't change from turn to turn (and 
threading is not a heavy load operation) a 1PPR is more than adequate for nice 
threads.  Except I'm counting system ticks of 50uS.  And it's amazing how well 
it actually works but there is a low speed limitation and you can't track the 
spindle when turned by hand.  


> 
> 
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 24 August 2019 14:46:32 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Hi Gene,
>
> > > > Yes, that encoder will run out of bandwidth trying to get thru
> > > > that bobs opto-iso circuitry. So you are out the cost of at
> > > > least a 5i25 which has at least 100x more bandwidth at its
> > > > encoder inputs.  I've had to cut and bypass the opto crap on the
> > > > bobs several times now. I am a CET, but many machinists far more
> > > > capable than I at turning cranks, wouldn't feel comfortable
> > > > doing such hacking.
> > >
> > > Actually not a problem. Especially for the spindle.
> >
> > Thats 10k edges per rev, and 3000 revs, that 300,000 edges a second,
> > and right at or slightly beyond the bandwidth you can shove thru an
> > opto-isolater.  Expect problems John.
>
> Not really.  3000 RPM is 50 RPS.  With 50 revs per second  * 10,000
> edges per rev is 500K edges per second. 

Yup, been bit by that rpm to rps before. I knew it didn't look right when 
I hit ctl+renter.

> Although the Bergerda drive, 
> using single ended opto is, spec'd to only 200Khz pulse rate the RS422
> input format is good to 1Mhz.  I've already made the motor turn at
> 3000 RPM using my Agilent programmable waveform generator set to a
> output 5V  waveform with 1uS wide pulses and 500kHz.  And if I set up
> the pulse multiplier I can reduce that.
>
> The PMDX-126 doesn't have opto for the step/dir outputs because they
> feel most drivers out there already have that.

Outputs do, at the drivers input. So in the $20 bobs, you find isolated 
inputs, but not outputs.

> And there are lots of 
> opto's out there now that are more than fast enough. Single-Channel:
> 6N137, HCPL-2601, HCPL-2611 Dual-Channel: HCPL-2630, HCPL-2631 High
> Speed-10 MBit/s Logic Gate Optocouplers

Ahh, yes there are, but finding a bob that actually uses them?  Or a 
vender smart enough to know the diff?  Sorry but hens teeth are much 
more plentiful.

> > Here on the g0704, I have a 1000 line encoder on the rear of that
> > 1hp 90 volt motor. At 1500 spindle revs, the multiplier is just
> > above 14000/rev, so the input to the encoder is coming in at
> > 21,750,000.

which should have been 362,500, much more reasonable

> > Its been run thru a couple rs-485 convertors, but the 
> > 5i25 is not haveing problems with it. Which amazes the heck out of
> > me.  But mama says shes hungry, and see that famous sign. Back
> > eventually.

Fed us both. Got all the patches & plugs off me, but not all the tape 
glue. Some of that will need to wear off.

Nap time and maybe a shower would improve the air around me.  Heart 
attacks don't always wait till you've showered.

> A 1000 line encoder is 4000 edges per rev in quadrature but each of
> the A and B are still only 1000 pulses /second.  At 25 RPS,
> (1500RPM/60) that's only or 25kHz.  Not really all that high.  All
> depends on how the hardware handles the two phased signals.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Chris Albertson]

On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 8:41 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

>
> I will state that encoders with less than 1000 counts per turn aren't
> going to be ultimately usefull on a mill where its also stablilizing
> speed, but even a 240 count I am getting from hall effect sensors


There is a trick to making this work.If you have a
low-resolution encoder, what you do is NOT count the number of "ticks" per
time interval. But rather measure the number of nanoseconds (not
microseconds) between each "tick"

Then you control the motor voltage to keep the number of nanoseconds at the
desited value.In practice you sample a fast clock or counter on each
encoder edge.   Gives very accurate results even with poor encoders.



Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

 
> > On Saturday 24 August 2019 12:46:28 John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > > > I already have my mill running with a single parallel port but
> > > > > the single phase motor is still controlled with a switch because
> > > > > I'm too lazy to temporarily wire in a relay.  What I do have for
> > > > > my mill is a sweet Bergerda 1.8kW AC Servo that works very
> > > > > nicely with step/dir signals and has a 2500 line encoder (10,000
> > > > > pulses per rev) which means it needs more than the parallel port
> > > > > can deliver.
> > > >
> > > And I can also program in a numerator/denominator pair on the
> > > encoder outputs.  So I can make the motor encoder appear like one
> > > that has 200 pulses per rev.   Aside from the poor manual I'm really
> > > liking the Bergerda AC Servos.  I may be ordering some more in the
> > > near future.
> 
> Found the site, chinky of course, Model #?
> 

The small motor to replace the Automation Technologies Inc 1.27Nm Brushed DC 
Servo is a 60SM-M0130NAL controlled with the SDD04-NK7D.  The big motor for the 
spindle is a 110SM-M0630ZAL and rated at 1.8kW or just over 2HP replacing a 
huge 2HP single phase motor.

The support from their factory rep in China has been spectacular.  
English/Chinese is definitely an issue and has led to some confusion but it's 
nice dealing with the actual factory and the design engineers. 
I'm not totally happy yet with their ModBus RS422 interface.  Once the motors 
are enabled there is a significant amount of electrical noise coupled onto the 
communications lines.  For an extra charge they will opto-isolate that 
interface.  I'm investigating that avenue but haven't made a decision yet.

But all in all I'm finding I'd buy from them again.  And in fact perfectly 
willing to arrange a bulk purchase to save shipping costs but I guess right now 
for Americans, even talking to China right now is like talking to the devil?

Not a problem in Canada so far.  I suppose if I value added something to the 
motor/driver combination to make it "Canadian" then the same duties into the 
USA might not apply?

John






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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Gene,
> > > Yes, that encoder will run out of bandwidth trying to get thru that
> > > bobs opto-iso circuitry. So you are out the cost of at least a 5i25
> > > which has at least 100x more bandwidth at its encoder inputs.  I've
> > > had to cut and bypass the opto crap on the bobs several times now. I
> > > am a CET, but many machinists far more capable than I at turning
> > > cranks, wouldn't feel comfortable doing such hacking.
> >
> > Actually not a problem. Especially for the spindle.
> 
> Thats 10k edges per rev, and 3000 revs, that 300,000 edges a second, and
> right at or slightly beyond the bandwidth you can shove thru an
> opto-isolater.  Expect problems John.

Not really.  3000 RPM is 50 RPS.  With 50 revs per second  * 10,000 edges per 
rev is 500K edges per second.  Although the Bergerda drive, using single ended 
opto is, spec'd to only 200Khz pulse rate the RS422 input format is good to 
1Mhz.  I've already made the motor turn at 3000 RPM using my Agilent 
programmable waveform generator set to a output 5V  waveform with 1uS wide 
pulses and 500kHz.  And if I set up the pulse multiplier I can reduce that.

The PMDX-126 doesn't have opto for the step/dir outputs because they feel most 
drivers out there already have that.  And there are lots of opto's out there 
now that are more than fast enough.
Single-Channel: 6N137, HCPL-2601, HCPL-2611 Dual-Channel: HCPL-2630, HCPL-2631 
High Speed-10 MBit/s Logic Gate Optocouplers

> 
> Here on the g0704, I have a 1000 line encoder on the rear of that 1hp 90
> volt motor. At 1500 spindle revs, the multiplier is just above
> 14000/rev, so the input to the encoder is coming in at 21,750,000. Its
> been run thru a couple rs-485 convertors, but the 5i25 is not haveing
> problems with it. Which amazes the heck out of me.  But mama says shes
> hungry, and see that famous sign. Back eventually.

A 1000 line encoder is 4000 edges per rev in quadrature but each of the A and B 
are still only 1000 pulses /second.  At 25 RPS, (1500RPM/60) that's only or 
25kHz.  Not really all that high.  All depends on how the hardware handles the 
two phased signals.

John





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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 24 August 2019 13:31:44 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 24 August 2019 12:46:28 John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > > I already have my mill running with a single parallel port but
> > > > the single phase motor is still controlled with a switch because
> > > > I'm too lazy to temporarily wire in a relay.  What I do have for
> > > > my mill is a sweet Bergerda 1.8kW AC Servo that works very
> > > > nicely with step/dir signals and has a 2500 line encoder (10,000
> > > > pulses per rev) which means it needs more than the parallel port
> > > > can deliver.
> > >
> > > Yes, that encoder will run out of bandwidth trying to get thru
> > > that bobs opto-iso circuitry. So you are out the cost of at least
> > > a 5i25 which has at least 100x more bandwidth at its encoder
> > > inputs.  I've had to cut and bypass the opto crap on the bobs
> > > several times now. I am a CET, but many machinists far more
> > > capable than I at turning cranks, wouldn't feel comfortable doing
> > > such hacking.
> >
> > Actually not a problem. Especially for the spindle.
>
> Thats 10k edges per rev, and 3000 revs, that 300,000 edges a second,
> and right at or slightly beyond the bandwidth you can shove thru an
> opto-isolater.  Expect problems John.
>
> Here on the g0704, I have a 1000 line encoder on the rear of that 1hp
> 90 volt motor. At 1500 spindle revs, the multiplier is just above
> 14000/rev, so the input to the encoder is coming in at 21,750,000. Its
> been run thru a couple rs-485 convertors, but the 5i25 is not haveing
> problems with it. Which amazes the heck out of me.  But mama says shes
> hungry, and see that famous sign. Back eventually.
>
> > The drive also
> > has a numerator/denominator step multiplier on the input. I tested
> > this by replacing a smaller DC brushed servo that has a 250 line US
> > Digital encoder (x4=1000 per rev) and set the numerator to 10.  It
> > was plug and play at that point.  Nothing changed with the hal or
> > ini file.  Just a smaller AC servo running the X axis. Sweet
> >
> > And I can also program in a numerator/denominator pair on the
> > encoder outputs.  So I can make the motor encoder appear like one
> > that has 200 pulses per rev.   Aside from the poor manual I'm really
> > liking the Bergerda AC Servos.  I may be ordering some more in the
> > near future.

Found the site, chinky of course, Model #?

> > > > So that means
> > > > a Smooth Stepper and MACH3 or the MESA 7i92H which is the
> > > > cheaper option and plugs directly into my existing BoB.  (part
> > > > of the criteria).
> > >
> > > I'll have to look at the 7i92. Just did, wouldn't consider it as
> > > it would tie up the single net port on most motherboards. I
> > > consider a working network a requirement and all my machines can
> > > browse the net.
> >
> > It's pretty inexpensive to order a second Ethernet Board.  I have
> > one but the bracket is for full height mounting.  I need a short one
> > for this PC.
> >
> > > Take care John. And I'm sure I'll learn something from it.
> >
> > I'm definitely learning a lot from trying all these different motor
> > drivers.  The one I haven't tried yet is the Gecko DC Servo drive. 
> > I have two of those that will probably just be sold.  Now that I've
> > played with the physically smaller drives that only need 220VAC
> > input and not a separate power supply I can't see using the Gecko. 
> > My DC Brushed motors are 90VDC.
>
> I'm using 2 of Jon's (pico systems) pwmservo drives against 90 volt
> motors, with supplies in the 127 volt range, and limited to 17 amps or
> so.  So the 1hp is probably twisting close to 2 hp. They seem to love
> it.
>
> > The Gecko can't go that high.  The next
> > power supply I have is 60V for the knee stepper motor.  I'm now
> > thinking about how I'll change to the AC Servo for that. Haven't
> > bothered with the quill.  It's locked fully up for now.
> >
Neither have I. Just a medium sized 950 oz nema 34 on the mills head 
sled.  The 1600 oz I took off as too slow, is working fast enough on the 
sheldon but noisy, rattles the keyboard shelf I bolted to the top of its 
mount bad enough I had to put a 1/4 round, 1/4" high mouse retainer 
fence around the edge. The mouse has a tendency to spit out batteries 
and such as it bounces off the concrete floor. ;)  I should reduce its 
current, in favor of a less violent microstep.  Or put a smaller motor I 
don't have on it.

Now if I just felt froggy enough to go change that psu in the 
g0704's 'puter.  But not today as that would put me 3 steps up a 
stepladder. That would probably give the docs bad dreams, so that may 
wait till the new valve is installed.

> > Thanks for the feedback Gene.
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of 

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 24 August 2019 12:46:28 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > > I already have my mill running with a single parallel port but the
> > > single phase motor is still controlled with a switch because I'm
> > > too lazy to temporarily wire in a relay.  What I do have for my
> > > mill is a sweet Bergerda 1.8kW AC Servo that works very nicely
> > > with step/dir signals and has a 2500 line encoder (10,000 pulses
> > > per rev) which means it needs more than the parallel port can
> > > deliver.
> >
> > Yes, that encoder will run out of bandwidth trying to get thru that
> > bobs opto-iso circuitry. So you are out the cost of at least a 5i25
> > which has at least 100x more bandwidth at its encoder inputs.  I've
> > had to cut and bypass the opto crap on the bobs several times now. I
> > am a CET, but many machinists far more capable than I at turning
> > cranks, wouldn't feel comfortable doing such hacking.
>
> Actually not a problem. Especially for the spindle.

Thats 10k edges per rev, and 3000 revs, that 300,000 edges a second, and 
right at or slightly beyond the bandwidth you can shove thru an 
opto-isolater.  Expect problems John.

Here on the g0704, I have a 1000 line encoder on the rear of that 1hp 90 
volt motor. At 1500 spindle revs, the multiplier is just above 
14000/rev, so the input to the encoder is coming in at 21,750,000. Its 
been run thru a couple rs-485 convertors, but the 5i25 is not haveing 
problems with it. Which amazes the heck out of me.  But mama says shes 
hungry, and see that famous sign. Back eventually.
 
> The drive also 
> has a numerator/denominator step multiplier on the input. I tested
> this by replacing a smaller DC brushed servo that has a 250 line US
> Digital encoder (x4=1000 per rev) and set the numerator to 10.  It was
> plug and play at that point.  Nothing changed with the hal or ini
> file.  Just a smaller AC servo running the X axis. Sweet
>
> And I can also program in a numerator/denominator pair on the encoder
> outputs.  So I can make the motor encoder appear like one that has 200
> pulses per rev.   Aside from the poor manual I'm really liking the
> Bergerda AC Servos.  I may be ordering some more in the near future.
>
> > > So that means
> > > a Smooth Stepper and MACH3 or the MESA 7i92H which is the cheaper
> > > option and plugs directly into my existing BoB.  (part of the
> > > criteria).
> >
> > I'll have to look at the 7i92. Just did, wouldn't consider it as it
> > would tie up the single net port on most motherboards. I consider a
> > working network a requirement and all my machines can browse the
> > net.
>
> It's pretty inexpensive to order a second Ethernet Board.  I have one
> but the bracket is for full height mounting.  I need a short one for
> this PC.
>
> > Take care John. And I'm sure I'll learn something from it.
>
> I'm definitely learning a lot from trying all these different motor
> drivers.  The one I haven't tried yet is the Gecko DC Servo drive.  I
> have two of those that will probably just be sold.  Now that I've
> played with the physically smaller drives that only need 220VAC input
> and not a separate power supply I can't see using the Gecko.  My DC
> Brushed motors are 90VDC.

I'm using 2 of Jon's (pico systems) pwmservo drives against 90 volt 
motors, with supplies in the 127 volt range, and limited to 17 amps or 
so.  So the 1hp is probably twisting close to 2 hp. They seem to love 
it.
 
> The Gecko can't go that high.  The next 
> power supply I have is 60V for the knee stepper motor.  I'm now
> thinking about how I'll change to the AC Servo for that. Haven't
> bothered with the quill.  It's locked fully up for now.
>
> Thanks for the feedback Gene.
> John
>
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

> > I already have my mill running with a single parallel port but the
> > single phase motor is still controlled with a switch because I'm too
> > lazy to temporarily wire in a relay.  What I do have for my mill is a
> > sweet Bergerda 1.8kW AC Servo that works very nicely with step/dir
> > signals and has a 2500 line encoder (10,000 pulses per rev) which
> > means it needs more than the parallel port can deliver.
> 
> Yes, that encoder will run out of bandwidth trying to get thru that bobs
> opto-iso circuitry. So you are out the cost of at least a 5i25 which has
> at least 100x more bandwidth at its encoder inputs.  I've had to cut and
> bypass the opto crap on the bobs several times now. I am a CET, but many
> machinists far more capable than I at turning cranks, wouldn't feel
> comfortable doing such hacking.
> 

Actually not a problem. Especially for the spindle.  The drive also has a 
numerator/denominator step multiplier on the input. I tested this by replacing 
a smaller DC brushed servo that has a 250 line US Digital encoder (x4=1000 per 
rev) and set the numerator to 10.  It was plug and play at that point.  Nothing 
changed with the hal or ini file.  Just a smaller AC servo running the X axis. 
Sweet

And I can also program in a numerator/denominator pair on the encoder outputs.  
So I can make the motor encoder appear like one that has 200 pulses per rev.   
Aside from the poor manual I'm really liking the Bergerda AC Servos.  I may be 
ordering some more in the near future.


> > So that means
> > a Smooth Stepper and MACH3 or the MESA 7i92H which is the cheaper
> > option and plugs directly into my existing BoB.  (part of the
> > criteria).
> 
> I'll have to look at the 7i92. Just did, wouldn't consider it as it would
> tie up the single net port on most motherboards. I consider a working
> network a requirement and all my machines can browse the net.
It's pretty inexpensive to order a second Ethernet Board.  I have one but the 
bracket is for full height mounting.  I need a short one for this PC.  

> Take care John. And I'm sure I'll learn something from it.
> >

I'm definitely learning a lot from trying all these different motor drivers.  
The one I haven't tried yet is the Gecko DC Servo drive.  I have two of those 
that will probably just be sold.  Now that I've played with the physically 
smaller drives that only need 220VAC input and not a separate power supply I 
can't see using the Gecko.  My DC Brushed motors are 90VDC.  The Gecko can't go 
that high.  The next power supply I have is 60V for the knee stepper motor.  
I'm now thinking about how I'll change to the AC Servo for that. Haven't 
bothered with the quill.  It's locked fully up for now.

Thanks for the feedback Gene.
John




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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 24 August 2019 01:53:28 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > > Now just to change the 5 Volt PWM into 0V to 10V analogue.
> >
> > Thats a mesa spinx1.
> >
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
>
> That's more than $100Cdn with exchange rate and shipping compared to a
> few dollars and some protoboard.

Crazy! Last time I bought one it was about an $18 bill. Several other of 
our suppliers have similar priced products, albeit not quite as linear 
as the spinx1. $24 and ship to the lower 48 right now.

> But, in case you missed some of my 
> other postings under this subject line.  The goal is to create a
> workable document for someone who has(had) a functioning WIN-XP/MACH3
> system that no longer works and help them migrate with minimal cost to
> LinuxCNC.  No new BoB.  If they were using a VFD with PWM to 0-10V (a
> checkbox in MACH3) with a parallel port then they have the hardware.

That 0-10 volts is not built into the bob that seems to come with most 
machines already setup for mach. It is however not reverse-able, nor 
capable of speed control, which is done from the knob on the box.  I 
fought with everything in that control box that came with the 6040 mill 
and finally threw it all away, That 24 volt motor power supply for 
instance, folded  back to around 13 volts when the A axis was plugged 
in. And I didn't trust the tb6550 drivers, so I went out to the shop and 
got the motor driver kit I had been using on the micromill for a decade. 
which had a 28 volt, 12.5 amp supply, 4 2M542 drivers, and a bob for one 
parport in it. Its computer already had a 5i25 in it, so I bought 2 
7i76's, rewrote the 5i25's and made 2 boxes, one to run the 6040 with, 
and one to run the G0704 with. I removed the bob from that box, so now 
it has a bunch of white cables reaching to 7i76. A sainsmart bob also 
lives there with the 7i76 for further expansion.

Then while I'm in the horsepistol for a ticker tuneup, had a heart attack 
they aren't done fixing yet, lightning got the old del running the 
G0704, and I've not brought it back to life yet. Probably the psu, which 
I should have a spare for. Power led color stuck on yellow.  Goes on and 
off according to the 4 seconds on the button rule, but no further 
activity.

> I already have my mill running with a single parallel port but the
> single phase motor is still controlled with a switch because I'm too
> lazy to temporarily wire in a relay.  What I do have for my mill is a
> sweet Bergerda 1.8kW AC Servo that works very nicely with step/dir
> signals and has a 2500 line encoder (10,000 pulses per rev) which
> means it needs more than the parallel port can deliver.

Yes, that encoder will run out of bandwidth trying to get thru that bobs 
opto-iso circuitry. So you are out the cost of at least a 5i25 which has 
at least 100x more bandwidth at its encoder inputs.  I've had to cut and 
bypass the opto crap on the bobs several times now. I am a CET, but many 
machinists far more capable than I at turning cranks, wouldn't feel 
comfortable doing such hacking.

> So that means 
> a Smooth Stepper and MACH3 or the MESA 7i92H which is the cheaper
> option and plugs directly into my existing BoB.  (part of the
> criteria).

I'll have to look at the 7i92. Just did, wouldn't consider it as it would 
tie up the single net port on most motherboards. I consider a working 
network a requirement and all my machines can browse the net.

And sitting in in the middle of ones NAT-ed address block would mean it 
has to share net space with all that traffic.  Scary at the crosstalk 
possibilities.  Druther not. From the computer running that machine to 
the machine is 100% private.

I haven't looked at it from that angle.  Its a one time expense, which if 
it makes the job easier, is for me an automatic go. So the worthless, 
uncontrollable 110 volt vfd that came with the 6040 now is a $110 clone 
from ebay in the dark brown box, and 100% controllable with a spinx1. 
And the 7i76 gives me controls for the spindle motor coolant pump, and 
the air for the mister & individual home switches and at least a dozen 
other things I have yet to build, like tool changers. All I have to do 
is last long enough to get it done. But with the ticker waiting on a new 
aortic valve, as this one is pumping at about 30% efficiency, so I'm not 
exerting myself. ATM I look like your grandmothers pin cushion, and have 
yet to remove the patch just above the fold crease of my right leg, 
which they will use again in about 2 weeks to implant the new valve.  
Sounds crazy, but that valve fix is today an outpatient cath-lab job.

> As long as LinuxCNC can create the correct step/dir pulses then open
> loop tapping should be possible.  But even if not, the Bergerda drive
> can output it's encoder pulses scaled by a numuerator/denominator set
> of parameters so that can be fed back to through the 7i92H.
>
> I have started on the conversion document.  But it will be a while
> yet.  Have to make a mount for the 

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

> >
> > Now just to change the 5 Volt PWM into 0V to 10V analogue.
> >
> Thats a mesa spinx1.
> >
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --

That's more than $100Cdn with exchange rate and shipping compared to a few 
dollars and some protoboard.  But, in case you missed some of my other postings 
under this subject line.  The goal is to create a workable document for someone 
who has(had) a functioning WIN-XP/MACH3 system that no longer works and help 
them migrate with minimal cost to LinuxCNC.  No new BoB.  If they were using a 
VFD with PWM to 0-10V (a checkbox in MACH3) with a parallel port then they have 
the hardware.  

I already have my mill running with a single parallel port but the single phase 
motor is still controlled with a switch because I'm too lazy to temporarily 
wire in a relay.  What I do have for my mill is a sweet Bergerda 1.8kW AC Servo 
that works very nicely with step/dir signals and has a 2500 line encoder 
(10,000 pulses per rev) which means it needs more than the parallel port can 
deliver.  So that means a Smooth Stepper and MACH3 or the MESA 7i92H which is 
the cheaper option and plugs directly into my existing BoB.  (part of the 
criteria).
   
As long as LinuxCNC can create the correct step/dir pulses then open loop 
tapping should be possible.  But even if not, the Bergerda drive can output 
it's encoder pulses scaled by a numuerator/denominator set of parameters so 
that can be fed back to through the 7i92H.

I have started on the conversion document.  But it will be a while yet.  Have 
to make a mount for the new motor and cast and machine a pulley to give me 1:1. 
 Then I'll have 0 to 3000 RPM on the spindle.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 23 August 2019 20:20:22 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Well that turned out to be easier than I thought except for the
> spindle direction signal.
>
> Here's what's in the HAL
> # PWM gen signals/setup
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.scale  [SPINDLE_9]PWM_SCALE
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.output-type  1
>
> net spindle-enable  =>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.enable
> net spindle-vel-cmd-rps =>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.value
> net spindle-cw  =>  hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.out
>
> And in the INI file PWM_SCALE is set to 50.  That gives me 100% PWM at
> 3000 RPM (50RPS) and 50% PWM at 1500 RPM according to my scope.
>
> Once I remember to add this
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.is_output  true
>
> The spindle-cw was correctly mirrored out to the DB25-16 pin.
>
> Now just to change the 5 Volt PWM into 0V to 10V analogue.
>
Thats a mesa spinx1.
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 23 August 2019 19:10:42 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Progress report on the WIN-XP/MACH3 to LinuxCNC/7i92H conversion:
>
> With six steppers declared:
> loadrt hm2_eth board_ip="192.168.1.121" config=" num_encoders=0
> num_pwmgens=0 num_stepgens=6"
>
> I have control of X,Y,Z and the rotary A.  Additionally a step motor
> instance is used as the charge pump on DB-25-17.  And the last stepper
> object is on the second parallel port creating the correct frequencies
> to run the Bergerda 1.8kW AC Servo up to 3000 RPM.  Still need to
> create an adaptor board to change the TTL into RS422 before I can
> actually turn the motor but that's a minor point.  My Agilient
> programmable waveform generator shows the motor responds nicely all
> the way up to 3000 RPM.
>
> But not everyone has a slick AC Servo for a spindle nor a second
> parallel port.  A VFD like a GS-1 that I have on my South Bend Lathe
> or a GS-2 that a friend has on his Bridgeport clone (run with MACH3)
> doesn't take step and direction.  Instead PWM and a PWM to 0-10V
> signal converter is used.
>
> For some reason I can't convince the pncconf to create a PWM instance
> with the 7i92H.  Not sure why.   The 7i92H is programmed with the
> 7i92_C11Gx2D.pin configuration which puts a PWM out onto DB25-14. 14  
>1   IOPort   PWM  0PWM (Out)
> And direction
> 16 5   IOPort   None
>
> So I can see I have to manually edit the hal file to have
> num_pwmgens=1
>
> But what to do next?
> Unfortunately http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/pncconf.html
> doesn't help.  At least nothing jumps out
>
> Instead this is my starting place.
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen
>
> Here's the hal file information for the stepper based spindle.
> I need the PWM allocated to DB25-14 (pin 1 on Mesa board) and the
> direction signal on DB25-16  (pin 5 on the message board)
>
>
> # Step Gen signals/setup
> The information needs to be replaced but the rest remains the same I
> believe.  Here's what I think I need with PWM scale declared in the
> .ini file.
>
> # PWM Gen signals/setup
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.05.scale  [SPINDLE_9]PWM_SCALE
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.05.output_type   1
>
> net spindle-enable=>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.enable
> net spindle-vel-cmd-rps   =>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.value
> net spindle-cw=> hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.out
>
> Am I missing anything?
>
> Specifically if the S3000 command is read in G-Code then that has to
> be scaled by PWM Scale to be what?  As in what should PWM Scale be if
> the default PWM frequency is 20,000Hz.  Should it be 6.67 to scale
> 3000 RPM to 20,000Hz?  Or do we want to scale 3000 RPM down to a
> percentage by multiplying by 0.033
>
> Is it really that simple?
>
> Thanks
> John
>
>
> Here's the step gen spindle area.
> #***
> #  SPINDLE S
> #***
>
> setp   pid.s.Pgain [SPINDLE_9]P
> setp   pid.s.Igain [SPINDLE_9]I
> setp   pid.s.Dgain [SPINDLE_9]D
> setp   pid.s.bias  [SPINDLE_9]BIAS
> setp   pid.s.FF0   [SPINDLE_9]FF0
> setp   pid.s.FF1   [SPINDLE_9]FF1
> setp   pid.s.FF2   [SPINDLE_9]FF2
> setp   pid.s.deadband  [SPINDLE_9]DEADBAND
> setp   pid.s.maxoutput [SPINDLE_9]MAX_OUTPUT
> setp   pid.s.error-previous-target true
> setp   pid.s.maxerror .0005
>
> net spindle-index-enable  <=> pid.s.index-enable
> net spindle-enable=>  pid.s.enable
> net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm   => pid.s.command
> net spindle-vel-fb-rpm=> pid.s.feedback
> net spindle-output<=  pid.s.output
>
> # Step Gen signals/setup
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.dirsetup[SPINDLE_9]DIRSETUP
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.dirhold [SPINDLE_9]DIRHOLD
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.steplen [SPINDLE_9]STEPLEN
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.stepspace   [SPINDLE_9]STEPSPACE
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.position-scale  [SPINDLE_9]STEP_SCALE
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.step_type   0
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.control-type1
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.maxaccel   
> [SPINDLE_9]MAX_ACCELERATION setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.maxvel   
>   [SPINDLE_9]MAX_VELOCITY
>
> # connection to the physical port.
> net spindle-enable  =>  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.enable
> net spindle-vel-cmd-rps =>  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.velocity-cmd
> net spindle-vel-fb-rps  <=  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.velocity-fb
>
> # ---setup spindle control signals---
> net spindle-vel-cmd-rps<=  motion.spindle-speed-out-rps
> net spindle-vel-cmd-rps-abs<=  motion.spindle-speed-out-rps-abs
> net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm<=  motion.spindle-speed-out
> net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs<=  motion.spindle-speed-out-abs
> net spindle-enable <=  motion.spindle-on
> net spindle-cw <=  motion.spindle-forward
> net spindle-ccw<=  motion.spindle-reverse
> net spindle-brake  <=  

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

Well that turned out to be easier than I thought except for the spindle 
direction signal.

Here's what's in the HAL
# PWM gen signals/setup
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.scale  [SPINDLE_9]PWM_SCALE
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.output-type  1

net spindle-enable  =>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.enable
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps =>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.value
net spindle-cw  =>  hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.out

And in the INI file PWM_SCALE is set to 50.  That gives me 100% PWM at 3000 RPM 
(50RPS) and 50% PWM at 1500 RPM according to my scope.  

Once I remember to add this
setp   hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.is_output  true

The spindle-cw was correctly mirrored out to the DB25-16 pin.

Now just to change the 5 Volt PWM into 0V to 10V analogue.



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

Progress report on the WIN-XP/MACH3 to LinuxCNC/7i92H conversion:

With six steppers declared:
loadrt hm2_eth board_ip="192.168.1.121" config=" num_encoders=0 num_pwmgens=0 
num_stepgens=6"

I have control of X,Y,Z and the rotary A.  Additionally a step motor instance 
is used as the charge pump on DB-25-17.  And the last stepper object is on the 
second parallel port creating the correct frequencies to run the Bergerda 1.8kW 
AC Servo up to 3000 RPM.  Still need to create an adaptor board to change the 
TTL into RS422 before I can actually turn the motor but that's a minor point.  
My Agilient programmable waveform generator shows the motor responds nicely all 
the way up to 3000 RPM.

But not everyone has a slick AC Servo for a spindle nor a second parallel port. 
 A VFD like a GS-1 that I have on my South Bend Lathe or a GS-2 that a friend 
has on his Bridgeport clone (run with MACH3) doesn't take step and direction.  
Instead PWM and a PWM to 0-10V signal converter is used.

For some reason I can't convince the pncconf to create a PWM instance with the 
7i92H.  Not sure why.   The 7i92H is programmed with the 7i92_C11Gx2D.pin 
configuration which puts a PWM out onto DB25-14.
14  1   IOPort   PWM  0PWM (Out)
And direction
16 5   IOPort   None   

So I can see I have to manually edit the hal file to have 
num_pwmgens=1

But what to do next?
Unfortunately http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/pncconf.html doesn't help.  
At least nothing jumps out 

Instead this is my starting place.
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen

Here's the hal file information for the stepper based spindle.
I need the PWM allocated to DB25-14 (pin 1 on Mesa board) and the direction 
signal on DB25-16  (pin 5 on the message board)

 
# Step Gen signals/setup
The information needs to be replaced but the rest remains the same I believe.  
Here's what I think I need with PWM scale declared in the .ini file.

# PWM Gen signals/setup
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.05.scale  [SPINDLE_9]PWM_SCALE
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.05.output_type   1

net spindle-enable  =>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.enable
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps =>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.value
net spindle-cw  => hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.out

Am I missing anything?  

Specifically if the S3000 command is read in G-Code then that has to be scaled 
by PWM Scale to be what?  As in what should PWM Scale be if the default PWM 
frequency is 20,000Hz.  Should it be 6.67 to scale 3000 RPM to 20,000Hz?  
Or do we want to scale 3000 RPM down to a percentage by multiplying by 0.033
 
Is it really that simple?

Thanks
John


Here's the step gen spindle area.
#***
#  SPINDLE S
#***

setp   pid.s.Pgain [SPINDLE_9]P
setp   pid.s.Igain [SPINDLE_9]I
setp   pid.s.Dgain [SPINDLE_9]D
setp   pid.s.bias  [SPINDLE_9]BIAS
setp   pid.s.FF0   [SPINDLE_9]FF0
setp   pid.s.FF1   [SPINDLE_9]FF1
setp   pid.s.FF2   [SPINDLE_9]FF2
setp   pid.s.deadband  [SPINDLE_9]DEADBAND
setp   pid.s.maxoutput [SPINDLE_9]MAX_OUTPUT
setp   pid.s.error-previous-target true
setp   pid.s.maxerror .0005

net spindle-index-enable  <=> pid.s.index-enable
net spindle-enable=>  pid.s.enable
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm   => pid.s.command
net spindle-vel-fb-rpm=> pid.s.feedback
net spindle-output<=  pid.s.output

# Step Gen signals/setup
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.dirsetup[SPINDLE_9]DIRSETUP
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.dirhold [SPINDLE_9]DIRHOLD
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.steplen [SPINDLE_9]STEPLEN
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.stepspace   [SPINDLE_9]STEPSPACE
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.position-scale  [SPINDLE_9]STEP_SCALE
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.step_type   0
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.control-type1
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.maxaccel[SPINDLE_9]MAX_ACCELERATION
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.maxvel  [SPINDLE_9]MAX_VELOCITY

# connection to the physical port.
net spindle-enable  =>  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.enable
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps =>  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.velocity-cmd
net spindle-vel-fb-rps  <=  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.velocity-fb

# ---setup spindle control signals---
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps<=  motion.spindle-speed-out-rps
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps-abs<=  motion.spindle-speed-out-rps-abs
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm<=  motion.spindle-speed-out
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs<=  motion.spindle-speed-out-abs
net spindle-enable <=  motion.spindle-on
net spindle-cw <=  motion.spindle-forward
net spindle-ccw<=  motion.spindle-reverse
net spindle-brake  <=  motion.spindle-brake
net spindle-revs   =>  motion.spindle-revs
net spindle-at-speed   =>  motion.spindle-at-speed
net spindle-vel-fb-rps =>  motion.spindle-speed-in
net spindle-index-enable  <=>  

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 23 August 2019 14:08:55 Chris Albertson wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 7:10 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Thursday 22 August 2019 16:35:42 Ralph Stirling wrote:
> > > Welcome back, Gene!  Hope you stick around for a good long time.
> > >
> > > -- Ralph
> >
> > Thanks Ralph. I appreciate the kind thoughts.
> >
> > > On Aug 22, 2019 12:03 PM, Gene Heskett 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thursday 22 August 2019 11:06:20 Thomas J Powderly wrote:
> > > > woot!
> > > >
> > > > On 8/22/19 8:20 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 21 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > > >> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:12:34 -0700
> > > > >> From: John Dammeyer 
> > > > >> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'"
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hi Tom,
> > > > >> Alas. No. Still not found.
> > > > >> I could probably sudo apt-get ifconfig but I really don't
> > > > >> understand why this fundamental tool isn't included in the
> > > > >> liveCD stretch version.  The graphical network tool is only
> > > > >> somewhat useful and doesn't provide any detailed information
> > > > >> on what's there.
> > > > >> John
> > > > >
> > > > > ifconfig has been deprecated in favor of ip on modern Linux
> > > > > distributions
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ip a
> > > > >
> > > > > will list all interfaces
> > > >
> > > > instead of
> > > >
> > > > you learn something new every day...
> > > >
> > > > it's
> > > >
> > > > you learn something's old every day
> > > >
> > > > tomp
> > > >
> > > > will Indian Pale Ale help me remember this?
> > >
> > > No.  If its anything like the local stuff by that name, it
> > > probably will not help you forget it either.
> > >
> > > Hi guys. I'm back, sorta. Been shipped to every heart shop in the
> > > north half of the state since about 2 weeks ago when I had a heart
> > > attack. Several stents, and a workup to replace the very leaky
> > > aortic valve scheduled for about 2 weeks on down the log, and I
> > > might be able to claim I'm 75% of the man I once was.  Maybe.
> > >
> > > 2 of my sons drove in from Nebraska when they got the word that I
> > > was in the shop for a tuneup, and they just got done putting my
> > > sheldon back together. Unforch it won't home either axis, always
> > > reporting a joint 0 following error.
> > >
> > > So I had apt update around 55 packages.
> > >
> > > No change when it was done.
> > > And Andy joint update script fires off on every LCNC start.
> > >
> > > I get in here to the main box, and my ssh -Y password is toast.
> > > Ahh, I'm not gene, I'm pi on that box.  So I'm in and have edited
> > > the .ini to be version 1.1
> > >
> > > But I still can't home it. Either axis is a joint 0 error. with no
> > > motion.
> > >
> > > Next???
> >
> > Since this is a raspi 3b, and our buildbot no  longer attempts to
> > build for raspi's, (armhf) I am fairly certain that this linuxcnc is
> > a house built install by building from github src.  And I'd assume
> > the only way to get the fix is to build from github again.
> >
> > So since its still running master and not 2.8, what is the git
> > command to patch my existing download tree so that a simple remake
> > is all I have to do.  But I am not a git guru, so what is the
> > command-line to do this bugfix?.
>
> Your first "go-to" git command is "git help".   Then from that, you
> see that what you need is "git pull".But you want to learn more
> about "git pull" so you'd try "git help pull". This prints a page
> of instruction that says that the pull command will get changed from a
> named repository and integrate those with any changes you might have
> made to you local git repository.
> So it looks like it is "git pull "
>
> But if you never make changes to your local git rep

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Chris Albertson]

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 7:10 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Thursday 22 August 2019 16:35:42 Ralph Stirling wrote:
>
> > Welcome back, Gene!  Hope you stick around for a good long time.
> >
> > -- Ralph
>
> Thanks Ralph. I appreciate the kind thoughts.
> >
> > On Aug 22, 2019 12:03 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >
> > On Thursday 22 August 2019 11:06:20 Thomas J Powderly wrote:
> > > woot!
> > >
> > > On 8/22/19 8:20 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 21 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > >> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:12:34 -0700
> > > >> From: John Dammeyer 
> > > >> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > > >> 
> > > >> To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'"
> > > >> 
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi Tom,
> > > >> Alas. No. Still not found.
> > > >> I could probably sudo apt-get ifconfig but I really don't
> > > >> understand why this fundamental tool isn't included in the liveCD
> > > >> stretch version.  The graphical network tool is only somewhat
> > > >> useful and doesn't provide any detailed information on what's
> > > >> there.
> > > >> John
> > > >
> > > > ifconfig has been deprecated in favor of ip on modern Linux
> > > > distributions
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ip a
> > > >
> > > > will list all interfaces
> > >
> > > instead of
> > >
> > > you learn something new every day...
> > >
> > > it's
> > >
> > > you learn something's old every day
> > >
> > > tomp
> > >
> > > will Indian Pale Ale help me remember this?
> >
> > No.  If its anything like the local stuff by that name, it probably
> > will not help you forget it either.
> >
> > Hi guys. I'm back, sorta. Been shipped to every heart shop in the
> > north half of the state since about 2 weeks ago when I had a heart
> > attack. Several stents, and a workup to replace the very leaky aortic
> > valve scheduled for about 2 weeks on down the log, and I might be able
> > to claim I'm 75% of the man I once was.  Maybe.
> >
> > 2 of my sons drove in from Nebraska when they got the word that I was
> > in the shop for a tuneup, and they just got done putting my sheldon
> > back together. Unforch it won't home either axis, always reporting a
> > joint 0 following error.
> >
> > So I had apt update around 55 packages.
> >
> > No change when it was done.
> > And Andy joint update script fires off on every LCNC start.
> >
> > I get in here to the main box, and my ssh -Y password is toast. Ahh,
> > I'm not gene, I'm pi on that box.  So I'm in and have edited the .ini
> > to be version 1.1
> >
> > But I still can't home it. Either axis is a joint 0 error. with no
> > motion.
> >
> > Next???
>
> Since this is a raspi 3b, and our buildbot no  longer attempts to build
> for raspi's, (armhf) I am fairly certain that this linuxcnc is a house
> built install by building from github src.  And I'd assume the only way
> to get the fix is to build from github again.
>
> So since its still running master and not 2.8, what is the git command to
> patch my existing download tree so that a simple remake is all I have to
> do.  But I am not a git guru, so what is the command-line to do this
> bugfix?.


Your first "go-to" git command is "git help".   Then from that, you see
that what you need is "git pull".But you want to learn more about "git
pull" so you'd try "git help pull". This prints a page of instruction
that says that the pull command will get changed from a named repository
and integrate those with any changes you might have made to you local git
repository.
So it looks like it is "git pull "

But if you never make changes to your local git repository then you may as
well just grab everything again using "git clone" The pull command is
better when you don't want to kill you local changes.

The best way to learn about Git is to make a habit of using it locally on
you own computer for storing you own work.It isusfull enough that it is
pretty much become universal.  If you have text files that you edit, git
can keep versions for you



>  I intend to do this with my own local buildbot. Or maybe even
> just crontab it. Upgrade 2x a week maybe.
>
> And I want to add a pi-4, 

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 22 August 2019 16:35:42 Ralph Stirling wrote:

> Welcome back, Gene!  Hope you stick around for a good long time.
>
> -- Ralph

Thanks Ralph. I appreciate the kind thoughts. 
>
> On Aug 22, 2019 12:03 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> On Thursday 22 August 2019 11:06:20 Thomas J Powderly wrote:
> > woot!
> >
> > On 8/22/19 8:20 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
> > > On Wed, 21 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > >> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:12:34 -0700
> > >> From: John Dammeyer 
> > >> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > >> 
> > >> To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'"
> > >> 
> > >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> > >>
> > >> Hi Tom,
> > >> Alas. No. Still not found.
> > >> I could probably sudo apt-get ifconfig but I really don't
> > >> understand why this fundamental tool isn't included in the liveCD
> > >> stretch version.  The graphical network tool is only somewhat
> > >> useful and doesn't provide any detailed information on what's
> > >> there.
> > >> John
> > >
> > > ifconfig has been deprecated in favor of ip on modern Linux
> > > distributions
> > >
> > >
> > > ip a
> > >
> > > will list all interfaces
> >
> > instead of
> >
> > you learn something new every day...
> >
> > it's
> >
> > you learn something's old every day
> >
> > tomp
> >
> > will Indian Pale Ale help me remember this?
>
> No.  If its anything like the local stuff by that name, it probably
> will not help you forget it either.
>
> Hi guys. I'm back, sorta. Been shipped to every heart shop in the
> north half of the state since about 2 weeks ago when I had a heart
> attack. Several stents, and a workup to replace the very leaky aortic
> valve scheduled for about 2 weeks on down the log, and I might be able
> to claim I'm 75% of the man I once was.  Maybe.
>
> 2 of my sons drove in from Nebraska when they got the word that I was
> in the shop for a tuneup, and they just got done putting my sheldon
> back together. Unforch it won't home either axis, always reporting a
> joint 0 following error.
>
> So I had apt update around 55 packages.
>
> No change when it was done.
> And Andy joint update script fires off on every LCNC start.
>
> I get in here to the main box, and my ssh -Y password is toast. Ahh,
> I'm not gene, I'm pi on that box.  So I'm in and have edited the .ini
> to be version 1.1
>
> But I still can't home it. Either axis is a joint 0 error. with no
> motion.
>
> Next???

Since this is a raspi 3b, and our buildbot no  longer attempts to build 
for raspi's, (armhf) I am fairly certain that this linuxcnc is a house 
built install by building from github src.  And I'd assume the only way 
to get the fix is to build from github again.

So since its still running master and not 2.8, what is the git command to 
patch my existing download tree so that a simple remake is all I have to 
do.  But I am not a git guru, so what is the command-line to do this 
bugfix?.  I intend to do this with my own local buildbot. Or maybe even 
just crontab it. Upgrade 2x a week maybe.

And I want to add a pi-4, and eventually make it work, a 2 Gig pi-4 is 
already on site.

>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Ralph Stirling]

Welcome back, Gene!  Hope you stick around for a good long time.

-- Ralph

On Aug 22, 2019 12:03 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
On Thursday 22 August 2019 11:06:20 Thomas J Powderly wrote:

> woot!
>
> On 8/22/19 8:20 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
> > On Wed, 21 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:12:34 -0700
> >> From: John Dammeyer 
> >> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> >> 
> >> To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'"
> >> 
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> >>
> >> Hi Tom,
> >> Alas. No. Still not found.
> >> I could probably sudo apt-get ifconfig but I really don't
> >> understand why this fundamental tool isn't included in the liveCD
> >> stretch version.  The graphical network tool is only somewhat
> >> useful and doesn't provide any detailed information on what's
> >> there.
> >> John
> >
> > ifconfig has been deprecated in favor of ip on modern Linux
> > distributions
> >
> >
> > ip a
> >
> > will list all interfaces
>
> instead of
>
> you learn something new every day...
>
> it's
>
> you learn something's old every day
>
> tomp
>
> will Indian Pale Ale help me remember this?
>
No.  If its anything like the local stuff by that name, it probably will
not help you forget it either.

Hi guys. I'm back, sorta. Been shipped to every heart shop in the north
half of the state since about 2 weeks ago when I had a heart attack.
Several stents, and a workup to replace the very leaky aortic valve
scheduled for about 2 weeks on down the log, and I might be able to
claim I'm 75% of the man I once was.  Maybe.

2 of my sons drove in from Nebraska when they got the word that I was in
the shop for a tuneup, and they just got done putting my sheldon back
together. Unforch it won't home either axis, always reporting a joint 0
following error.

So I had apt update around 55 packages.

No change when it was done.
And Andy joint update script fires off on every LCNC start.

I get in here to the main box, and my ssh -Y password is toast. Ahh, I'm
not gene, I'm pi on that box.  So I'm in and have edited the .ini to be
version 1.1

But I still can't home it. Either axis is a joint 0 error. with no
motion.

Next???

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Ralph Stirling]

Latest version of ifconfig is dated 2001.  The "ip" command was
added to Linux with kernel version 2.2.  I had the same surprise
as you about a decade ago.

-- Ralph

From: John Dammeyer [jo...@autoartisans.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 9:37 AM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

Thanks.  The proper change when something this well used and deprecated is:
User> ifconfig
STATUS: "ifconfig" deprecated.  Use "ip"
User>

In other words there should be a program called ifconfig that tells a user that 
they must now use the program ip.  So trivial and would cause far less lost man 
hours.
John



> -Original Message-
> From: Ralph Stirling [mailto:ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu]
> Sent: August-22-19 6:10 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
>
> The command is:
>
> ip addr
>
> -- Ralph
>
> On Aug 21, 2019 11:12 PM, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> Hi Tom,
> Alas. No. Still not found.
> I could probably sudo apt-get ifconfig but I really don't understand why this
> fundamental tool isn't included in the liveCD stretch version.  The graphical
> network tool is only somewhat useful and doesn't provide any detailed
> information on what's there.
> John
>
> > >
> > maybe
> >
> > sudo ifconfig
> >
> > will work better
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > tomp
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 22 August 2019 11:06:20 Thomas J Powderly wrote:

> woot!
>
> On 8/22/19 8:20 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
> > On Wed, 21 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:12:34 -0700
> >> From: John Dammeyer 
> >> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> >>     
> >> To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'"
> >> 
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> >>
> >> Hi Tom,
> >> Alas. No. Still not found.
> >> I could probably sudo apt-get ifconfig but I really don't
> >> understand why this fundamental tool isn't included in the liveCD
> >> stretch version.  The graphical network tool is only somewhat
> >> useful and doesn't provide any detailed information on what's
> >> there.
> >> John
> >
> > ifconfig has been deprecated in favor of ip on modern Linux
> > distributions
> >
> >
> > ip a
> >
> > will list all interfaces
>
> instead of
>
> you learn something new every day...
>
> it's
>
> you learn something's old every day
>
> tomp
>
> will Indian Pale Ale help me remember this?
>
No.  If its anything like the local stuff by that name, it probably will 
not help you forget it either.

Hi guys. I'm back, sorta. Been shipped to every heart shop in the north 
half of the state since about 2 weeks ago when I had a heart attack.  
Several stents, and a workup to replace the very leaky aortic valve 
scheduled for about 2 weeks on down the log, and I might be able to 
claim I'm 75% of the man I once was.  Maybe.

2 of my sons drove in from Nebraska when they got the word that I was in 
the shop for a tuneup, and they just got done putting my sheldon back 
together. Unforch it won't home either axis, always reporting a joint 0 
following error.

So I had apt update around 55 packages.

No change when it was done.
And Andy joint update script fires off on every LCNC start.
 
I get in here to the main box, and my ssh -Y password is toast. Ahh, I'm 
not gene, I'm pi on that box.  So I'm in and have edited the .ini to be 
version 1.1

But I still can't home it. Either axis is a joint 0 error. with no 
motion.

Next???

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks.  The proper change when something this well used and deprecated is:
User> ifconfig
STATUS: "ifconfig" deprecated.  Use "ip"
User>

In other words there should be a program called ifconfig that tells a user that 
they must now use the program ip.  So trivial and would cause far less lost man 
hours.
John



> -Original Message-
> From: Ralph Stirling [mailto:ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu]
> Sent: August-22-19 6:10 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> 
> The command is:
> 
> ip addr
> 
> -- Ralph
> 
> On Aug 21, 2019 11:12 PM, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> Hi Tom,
> Alas. No. Still not found.
> I could probably sudo apt-get ifconfig but I really don't understand why this
> fundamental tool isn't included in the liveCD stretch version.  The graphical
> network tool is only somewhat useful and doesn't provide any detailed
> information on what's there.
> John
> 
> > >
> > maybe
> >
> > sudo ifconfig
> >
> > will work better
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > tomp
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 17:08, Thomas J Powderly  wrote:

> > ip a
>


> will Indian Pale Ale help me remember this?


It's got to be worth a try.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Thomas J Powderly]

woot!

On 8/22/19 8:20 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote:

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:12:34 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
    
To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 


Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

Hi Tom,
Alas. No. Still not found.
I could probably sudo apt-get ifconfig but I really don't understand 
why this fundamental tool isn't included in the liveCD stretch 
version.  The graphical network tool is only somewhat useful and 
doesn't provide any detailed information on what's there.

John


ifconfig has been deprecated in favor of ip on modern Linux distributions


ip a

will list all interfaces




instead of

you learn something new every day...

it's

you learn something's old every day

tomp

will Indian Pale Ale help me remember this?


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Ralph Stirling]

The command is:

ip addr

-- Ralph

On Aug 21, 2019 11:12 PM, John Dammeyer  wrote:
Hi Tom,
Alas. No. Still not found.
I could probably sudo apt-get ifconfig but I really don't understand why this 
fundamental tool isn't included in the liveCD stretch version.  The graphical 
network tool is only somewhat useful and doesn't provide any detailed 
information on what's there.
John

> >
> maybe
>
> sudo ifconfig
>
> will work better
>
> HTH
>
> tomp
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 23:12:34 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

Hi Tom,
Alas. No. Still not found.
I could probably sudo apt-get ifconfig but I really don't understand why this 
fundamental tool isn't included in the liveCD stretch version.  The graphical 
network tool is only somewhat useful and doesn't provide any detailed 
information on what's there.
John


ifconfig has been deprecated in favor of ip on modern Linux distributions


ip a

will list all interfaces





maybe

sudo ifconfig

will work better

HTH

tomp



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Tom,
Alas. No. Still not found.  
I could probably sudo apt-get ifconfig but I really don't understand why this 
fundamental tool isn't included in the liveCD stretch version.  The graphical 
network tool is only somewhat useful and doesn't provide any detailed 
information on what's there.  
John

> >
> maybe
> 
> sudo ifconfig
> 
> will work better
> 
> HTH
> 
> tomp
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Thomas J Powderly]

John hello,

On 8/22/19 11:32 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:

Might be easier to find a supported WIFI adapter (I'm using some $8.00
edimax
thing here thats trouble free and has built in support)

So it was plug and play?   No sudo apt-get?

I'm finding this latest stretch version graphical tool doesn't even report that 
there's a connection and there's no ifconfig or ipconfig on the command line.

Anyway, if you can point me to an amazon part number I'll pick up one.

Thanks
John


maybe

sudo ifconfig

will work better

HTH

tomp



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

> > Might be easier to find a supported WIFI adapter (I'm using some $8.00
> > edimax
> > thing here thats trouble free and has built in support)

So it was plug and play?   No sudo apt-get?  

I'm finding this latest stretch version graphical tool doesn't even report that 
there's a connection and there's no ifconfig or ipconfig on the command line.

Anyway, if you can point me to an amazon part number I'll pick up one.

Thanks
John


> >
> > Peter Wallace
> > Mesa Electronics
> >
> > (\__/)
> > (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> > (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

The problem is that I have two surplus Lenovo PCs that are more than adequate 
for LinuxCNC.  One for a spare.  But they have only two slots which are low 
profile to boot.
If I want to go drop $100 (Cdn) I can get newer Lenovos that have 4 full height 
slots and faster processors.  But they don't come with hard drives since they 
are government surplus.  

But for this initial project the goal was to have a WIN-XP (might have to be 
WIN-7 since the built in network interface is too new for WIN-XP)  and MACH3 
and then write up a nice step by step guide on how to move from MACH3 to 
LinuxCNC while keeping the one or two parallel port cables that go to the sy 
stem BoB.   I know lots of people running MACH3 that at the moment are quite 
happy.  I know only one person running Linux.  And one of the WIN-XP/MACH3 
people detests Microsoft and Windows and only recently bought a WIN-10 laptop 
so he could access Fusion-360.  

But MACH3 with the wizards and graphical interface for setup is just so much 
easier.  Even with an USB or Ethernet Smooth Stepper.

But I'm determined to not quit (I've come close).

John


> If its not supported it may be chiefly a matter of adding the non-open
> source
> driver package
> 
> Might be easier to find a supported WIFI adapter (I'm using some $8.00
> edimax
> thing here thats trouble free and has built in support)
> 
> >
> > Or find a low profile PCI Ethernet card
> >
> > John
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
> >> Sent: August-21-19 8:21 PM
> >> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> >>
> >> On Wed, 21 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >>
> >>> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 19:01:35 -0700
> >>> From: John Dammeyer 
> >>> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> >>> 
> >>> To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'"  >> us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> originally created by pncconfig.  Should not
> >>>>>> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.control-type 1
> >>>>>> be control-type 0?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> No, needs to be 1
> >>>>
> >>>> So what does it need to be for the spindle then?
> >>>
> >>> Also 1 since you are setting the steprate from the spindle speed
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The tutorial suggests stepgen is type 0 for step/dir and "ctrl_type" type
> v
> >>>> for velocity.
> >>>>
> >>>> I haven't found the details on "control-type" in a document yet.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.control-type
> >>>> Perhaps I overlooked it somewhere?
> >>>
> >>> man hostmot2, stepgen section
> >>>
> >> Yes but... to quote
> >> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#stepgen
> >>
> >> "(bit input) controltype
> >>Switches between position control mode (0) and velocity
> >> control mode (1). Defaults to position control (0)."
> >>>
> >>> Why then do the XYZA axis have control_type set to 1 when the above
> >> snippet
> >>> clearly says position control mode is 0?
> >>
> >> The stepgens are used in velocity mode (1) the position is controlled via
> the
> >> PID component
> >>
> >> You can run the stepgens in position mode but this has two
> disadvantages
> >>
> >> 1. The built in position mode controller is not as robust as the PID loop
> with
> >> regard to host jitter
> >> 2. When the stepgens are used in velocity mode the hal boilerplate for
> >> encoder feedback is already there (just a net change of the position
> >> feedback)
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Is this then an error in the manual or just poorly explained?  Does
> LinuxCNC,
> >>> when used to run a milling machine, use velocity control to move the
> motor
> >> and
> >>> somehow also track the position?
> >>
> >> The hostmot2 manual applies only to the low level hardware and driver,
> the
> >> hal
> >> configuration that pncconf creates does the position control with hal and
> the
> >> PID compon

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 20:36:38 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

Peter,
Ah!  That now makes sense.  Thanks.

Now to figure out how to install a driver for the ASUS USB AC-56 WiFi 
connection.  Everything out there refers to Ubuntu and recompiling stuff. 
But some of it is also very old.  No plug and play with it like in WIN-7 and 
up.


If its not supported it may be chiefly a matter of adding the non-open source 
driver package


Might be easier to find a supported WIFI adapter (I'm using some $8.00 edimax 
thing here thats trouble free and has built in support)




Or find a low profile PCI Ethernet card

John


-Original Message-
From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: August-21-19 8:21 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 19:01:35 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
us...@lists.sourceforge.net>

Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga


originally created by pncconfig.  Should not

setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.control-type 1
be control-type 0?



No, needs to be 1


So what does it need to be for the spindle then?


Also 1 since you are setting the steprate from the spindle speed



The tutorial suggests stepgen is type 0 for step/dir and "ctrl_type" type v
for velocity.

I haven't found the details on "control-type" in a document yet.





hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.control-type
Perhaps I overlooked it somewhere?


man hostmot2, stepgen section


Yes but... to quote
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#stepgen

"(bit input) controltype
Switches between position control mode (0) and velocity
control mode (1). Defaults to position control (0)."


Why then do the XYZA axis have control_type set to 1 when the above

snippet

clearly says position control mode is 0?


The stepgens are used in velocity mode (1) the position is controlled via the
PID component

You can run the stepgens in position mode but this has two disadvantages

1. The built in position mode controller is not as robust as the PID loop with
regard to host jitter
2. When the stepgens are used in velocity mode the hal boilerplate for
encoder feedback is already there (just a net change of the position
feedback)




Is this then an error in the manual or just poorly explained?  Does LinuxCNC,
when used to run a milling machine, use velocity control to move the motor

and

somehow also track the position?


The hostmot2 manual applies only to the low level hardware and driver, the
hal
configuration that pncconf creates does the position control with hal and the
PID component and hence uses the stepgen in velocity mode.

LinuxCNCs motion component hands position waypoints (and also velocities
and
accelerations) to the hal layer at the servo thread rate. How these are
converted to signals that feed the motor drives is up to the machine specific
hal configuration.



When I wrote my Electronic Lead Screw software that had to track the

spindle

speed the velocity of the Z axis carriage motor was critical and the position
was really only used to decide when to finish accelerating and when to
decelerate.  Since the CNC G-Code specifies feed rate and in the case of
multiple axis the feed rate along the path I can see that this might well be
the way it's done.  But with the manual stating 0 (position mode) is the

default and

that G-Code tends to change positions but often leave the feed rate

constant

it's a bit confusing.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

Peter,
Ah!  That now makes sense.  Thanks.

Now to figure out how to install a driver for the ASUS USB AC-56 WiFi 
connection.  Everything out there refers to Ubuntu and recompiling stuff.  But 
some of it is also very old.  No plug and play with it like in WIN-7 and up.

Or find a low profile PCI Ethernet card

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
> Sent: August-21-19 8:21 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> 
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 19:01:35 -0700
> > From: John Dammeyer 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'"  us...@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> >
> >>>>>> originally created by pncconfig.  Should not
> > >>> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.control-type 1
> > >>> be control-type 0?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> No, needs to be 1
> > >
> > > So what does it need to be for the spindle then?
> >
> > Also 1 since you are setting the steprate from the spindle speed
> >
> > >
> > > The tutorial suggests stepgen is type 0 for step/dir and "ctrl_type" type 
> > > v
> > > for velocity.
> > >
> > > I haven't found the details on "control-type" in a document yet.
> >
> >
> >
> > > hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.control-type
> > > Perhaps I overlooked it somewhere?
> >
> > man hostmot2, stepgen section
> >
> Yes but... to quote
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#stepgen
> 
> "(bit input) controltype
>   Switches between position control mode (0) and velocity
> control mode (1). Defaults to position control (0)."
> >
> >Why then do the XYZA axis have control_type set to 1 when the above
> snippet
> >clearly says position control mode is 0?
> 
> The stepgens are used in velocity mode (1) the position is controlled via the
> PID component
> 
> You can run the stepgens in position mode but this has two disadvantages
> 
> 1. The built in position mode controller is not as robust as the PID loop with
> regard to host jitter
> 2. When the stepgens are used in velocity mode the hal boilerplate for
> encoder feedback is already there (just a net change of the position
> feedback)
> 
> >
> >
> >Is this then an error in the manual or just poorly explained?  Does LinuxCNC,
> >when used to run a milling machine, use velocity control to move the motor
> and
> >somehow also track the position?
> 
> The hostmot2 manual applies only to the low level hardware and driver, the
> hal
> configuration that pncconf creates does the position control with hal and the
> PID component and hence uses the stepgen in velocity mode.
> 
> LinuxCNCs motion component hands position waypoints (and also velocities
> and
> accelerations) to the hal layer at the servo thread rate. How these are
> converted to signals that feed the motor drives is up to the machine specific
> hal configuration.
> 
> >
> >When I wrote my Electronic Lead Screw software that had to track the
> spindle
> >speed the velocity of the Z axis carriage motor was critical and the position
> >was really only used to decide when to finish accelerating and when to
> >decelerate.  Since the CNC G-Code specifies feed rate and in the case of
> >multiple axis the feed rate along the path I can see that this might well be
> >the way it's done.  But with the manual stating 0 (position mode) is the
> default and
> >that G-Code tends to change positions but often leave the feed rate
> constant
> >it's a bit confusing.
> >
> >John



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 19:01:35 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga


originally created by pncconfig.  Should not

>>> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.control-type 1
>>> be control-type 0?
>>>
>>
>> No, needs to be 1
>
> So what does it need to be for the spindle then?

Also 1 since you are setting the steprate from the spindle speed

>
> The tutorial suggests stepgen is type 0 for step/dir and "ctrl_type" type v
> for velocity.
>
> I haven't found the details on "control-type" in a document yet.



> hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.control-type
> Perhaps I overlooked it somewhere?

man hostmot2, stepgen section


Yes but... to quote
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#stepgen

"(bit input) control??type
Switches between position control mode (0) and velocity control mode 
(1). Defaults to position control (0)."


Why then do the XYZA axis have control_type set to 1 when the above snippet 
clearly says position control mode is 0?


The stepgens are used in velocity mode (1) the position is controlled via the 
PID component


You can run the stepgens in position mode but this has two disadvantages

1. The built in position mode controller is not as robust as the PID loop with 
regard to host jitter
2. When the stepgens are used in velocity mode the hal boilerplate for 
encoder feedback is already there (just a net change of the position feedback)





Is this then an error in the manual or just poorly explained?  Does LinuxCNC, 
when used to run a milling machine, use velocity control to move the motor and 
somehow also track the position?


The hostmot2 manual applies only to the low level hardware and driver, the hal 
configuration that pncconf creates does the position control with hal and the 
PID component and hence uses the stepgen in velocity mode.


LinuxCNCs motion component hands position waypoints (and also velocities and 
accelerations) to the hal layer at the servo thread rate. How these are 
converted to signals that feed the motor drives is up to the machine specific 
hal configuration.




When I wrote my Electronic Lead Screw software that had to track the spindle 
speed the velocity of the Z axis carriage motor was critical and the position 
was really only used to decide when to finish accelerating and when to 
decelerate.  Since the CNC G-Code specifies feed rate and in the case of 
multiple axis the feed rate along the path I can see that this might well be 
the way it's done.  But with the manual stating 0 (position mode) is the default and 
that G-Code tends to change positions but often leave the feed rate constant 
it's a bit confusing.


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 18:51:34 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga


And although DIRSETUP in the ini file is set to 1000 nS the actual time from
rising dir pin to first step pulse in this example was 2.89mS.  The change in
direction to first step to go back to 0.001" was 3.23mS.


Its expected that you will not step instantly when you move because you
starting
somewhere between steps (and the control loop has a resolution of
1/65536's of a
step) plus the initial velocity is very low



Yeah, that last step pulse of course is at the end of the deceleration so 
without doing he real math based on parameters and motion it's hard to say 
specifically what the speed of the motor is as that last step is issued and 
then when the motor is actually stopped.  Wasn't complaining about the time 
taken.  Really just an observation.




The other reason fo the assymetry of the direction behavior at 0 is the use 
of signed rather than sign-magnitude numbers (so 0 velocity has a positive 
sign)


So that implies that every time it moves to a point where it's stopped the 
system thinks it's going in a positive direction so then sets the direction to 
that.  Interesting.  Nice to know.  Doesn't explain the 3 pulses.  Do you 
think the parallel port stepper does this or is this unique to the 7i92H?

No sure if it has any hysteresis to prevent this or not

The 3 direction changes are probably related to tuning and the 
the signed velocity


BTW, I now have the step rate for 3000 RPM coming out of P1 port.  Just need 
to convert that to RS422 since the motor driver is only rated to 200kHz with 
TTL pulses.


Baby steps...



Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

> >
> >> originally created by pncconfig.  Should not
> >>> setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.control-type 1
> >>> be control-type 0?
> >>>
> >>
> >> No, needs to be 1
> >
> > So what does it need to be for the spindle then?
> 
> Also 1 since you are setting the steprate from the spindle speed
> 
> >
> > The tutorial suggests stepgen is type 0 for step/dir and "ctrl_type" type v
> > for velocity.
> >
> > I haven't found the details on "control-type" in a document yet.
> 
> 
> 
> > hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.control-type
> > Perhaps I overlooked it somewhere?
> 
> man hostmot2, stepgen section
> 
Yes but... to quote
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#stepgen

"(bit input) control−type
Switches between position control mode (0) and velocity control 
mode (1). Defaults to position control (0)."

Why then do the XYZA axis have control_type set to 1 when the above snippet 
clearly says position control mode is 0?

Is this then an error in the manual or just poorly explained?  Does LinuxCNC, 
when used to run a milling machine, use velocity control to move the motor and 
somehow also track the position?  

When I wrote my Electronic Lead Screw software that had to track the spindle 
speed the velocity of the Z axis carriage motor was critical and the position 
was really only used to decide when to finish accelerating and when to 
decelerate.  Since the CNC G-Code specifies feed rate and in the case of 
multiple axis the feed rate along the path I can see that this might well be 
the way it's done.  But with the manual stating 0 (position mode) is the 
default and that G-Code tends to change positions but often leave the feed rate 
constant it's a bit confusing.

John



> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

> > And although DIRSETUP in the ini file is set to 1000 nS the actual time from
> > rising dir pin to first step pulse in this example was 2.89mS.  The change 
> > in
> > direction to first step to go back to 0.001" was 3.23mS.
> 
> Its expected that you will not step instantly when you move because you
> starting
> somewhere between steps (and the control loop has a resolution of
> 1/65536's of a
> step) plus the initial velocity is very low
> 

Yeah, that last step pulse of course is at the end of the deceleration so 
without doing he real math based on parameters and motion it's hard to say 
specifically what the speed of the motor is as that last step is issued and 
then when the motor is actually stopped.   Wasn't complaining about the time 
taken.  Really just an observation.  
> >
> 
> The other reason fo the assymetry of the direction behavior at 0 is the use
> of
> signed rather than sign-magnitude numbers (so 0 velocity has a positive
> sign)

So that implies that every time it moves to a point where it's stopped the 
system thinks it's going in a positive direction so then sets the direction to 
that.   Interesting.  Nice to know.  Doesn't explain the 3 pulses.  Do you 
think the parallel port stepper does this or is this unique to the 7i92H?

BTW, I now have the step rate for 3000 RPM coming out of P1 port.  Just need to 
convert that to RS422 since the motor driver is only rated to 200kHz with TTL 
pulses.

Baby steps...

> 
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Peter C. Wallace]

This didn't make any difference.  What does fix it is disabling BACKLASH. 
And that led me to the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL set too low.  Initial testing didn't 
have backlash enabled so the 25% increase in STEPGEN_MAXACCEL was more than 
adequate.  But with backlash enabled it broke.  Should really follow the 
comments in there.  Turns out on the actual machine with the parallel port I 
did have STEPGEN_MAXACCEL set to just over 100% larger.


Ahh yes if you have backlash correction enabled you should set the stepgen 
maxaxxel to say 2.5 the machine limit





originally created by pncconfig.  Should not

setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.control-type 1
be control-type 0?



No, needs to be 1


So what does it need to be for the spindle then?


Also 1 since you are setting the steprate from the spindle speed



The tutorial suggests stepgen is type 0 for step/dir and "ctrl_type" type v 
for velocity.


I haven't found the details on "control-type" in a document yet.





hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.control-type
Perhaps I overlooked it somewhere?


man hostmot2, stepgen section



loadrt stepgen step_type=0,0 ctrl_type=v,v



Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 17:16:50 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

In case anyone is interested:

%
G0 X0.000
G0 X0.001
%

Starting from position X=0.001"  my Tek MSO3034 scope shows the move back to 
zero and then to 0.001.  The direction line set in the + direction rises to 
the - direction and moves to 0.000.  Then immediately changes to the + 
direction and another 15 step pulses to move back to 0.001.  And then the 
direction line toggles 3 times.


And although DIRSETUP in the ini file is set to 1000 nS the actual time from 
rising dir pin to first step pulse in this example was 2.89mS.  The change in 
direction to first step to go back to 0.001" was 3.23mS.


Its expected that you will not step instantly when you move because you starting 
somewhere between steps (and the control loop has a resolution of 1/65536's of a 
step) plus the initial velocity is very low






John


It doesn't appear to do any harm since the step lines are stable.  But it's odd
and very repeatable in either direction.   The direction signal always returns
to + direction regardless of the jog direction.   The attached screen shot show
a 0.001" move in the negative direction with exactly 15 steps which matches
motor encoder and 3:1 pulley and 5 TPI lead screw.

I'll temporarily remove the limit switches, backlash and run a short G-Code
program that moves 0.001 and then -0.001" and capture the direction signal.
Very curious.





The other reason fo the assymetry of the direction behavior at 0 is the use of 
signed rather than sign-magnitude numbers (so 0 velocity has a positive sign)


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

In case anyone is interested:

%
G0 X0.000
G0 X0.001
%

Starting from position X=0.001"  my Tek MSO3034 scope shows the move back to 
zero and then to 0.001.  The direction line set in the + direction rises to the 
- direction and moves to 0.000.  Then immediately changes to the + direction 
and another 15 step pulses to move back to 0.001.  And then the direction line 
toggles 3 times.

And although DIRSETUP in the ini file is set to 1000 nS the actual time from 
rising dir pin to first step pulse in this example was 2.89mS.  The change in 
direction to first step to go back to 0.001" was 3.23mS.

John

> It doesn't appear to do any harm since the step lines are stable.  But it's 
> odd
> and very repeatable in either direction.   The direction signal always returns
> to + direction regardless of the jog direction.   The attached screen shot 
> show
> a 0.001" move in the negative direction with exactly 15 steps which matches
> motor encoder and 3:1 pulley and 5 TPI lead screw.
> 
> I'll temporarily remove the limit switches, backlash and run a short G-Code
> program that moves 0.001 and then -0.001" and capture the direction signal.
> Very curious.
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

> >
> > Thanks Peter,
> > I've got pulses coming out the Spindle Pins on connector P1.
> > While snooping with the scope and looking at the generated signals I've
> run into an issue.  I haven't looked at any other axis but the following
> information has to do with the X axis.  The attached screen shot shows the
> pulses as I let off on the jog button for the X axis.
> >
> > Scope trigger is on the direction signal (blue trace) falling edge.
> > Notice after the 2uS step pulses (yellow trace) have stopped the direction
> signal changes 3 times.
> > Why?
> 
> This has to do with the stepgen control loop having much greater
> resolution than a single step so tiny corrections may change the
> direction (though timing is always obeyed). It may also have to do with PID
> setup.
> 

It doesn't appear to do any harm since the step lines are stable.  But it's odd 
and very repeatable in either direction.   The direction signal always returns 
to + direction regardless of the jog direction.   The attached screen shot show 
a 0.001" move in the negative direction with exactly 15 steps which matches 
motor encoder and 3:1 pulley and 5 TPI lead screw.

I'll temporarily remove the limit switches, backlash and run a short G-Code 
program that moves 0.001 and then -0.001" and capture the direction signal.  
Very curious.

> 
> 
> >
> > I'm also seeing occasional joint 0 following errors when I change direction
> which is what prompted putting the scope on the signals.  It's open loop
> step/dir with no encoder feedback so something is not quite right.
> >
> 
> try commenting out these lines (for all axis)
> 
> net x-vel-cmd   =>  pid.x.command-deriv
> setp   pid.x.maxerror .0005
> 
> 

This didn't make any difference.  What does fix it is disabling BACKLASH.  And 
that led me to the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL set too low.  Initial testing didn't have 
backlash enabled so the 25% increase in STEPGEN_MAXACCEL was more than 
adequate.  But with backlash enabled it broke.  Should really follow the 
comments in there.  Turns out on the actual machine with the parallel port I 
did have STEPGEN_MAXACCEL set to just over 100% larger.

> originally created by pncconfig.  Should not
> > setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.control-type 1
> > be control-type 0?
> >
> 
> No, needs to be 1

So what does it need to be for the spindle then? 

The tutorial suggests stepgen is type 0 for step/dir and "ctrl_type" type v for 
velocity.  

I haven't found the details on "control-type" in a document yet.  
 hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.control-type 
Perhaps I overlooked it somewhere? 

loadrt stepgen step_type=0,0 ctrl_type=v,v
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 15:18:25 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

Thanks Peter,
I've got pulses coming out the Spindle Pins on connector P1.
While snooping with the scope and looking at the generated signals I've run 
into an issue.  I haven't looked at any other axis but the following 
information has to do with the X axis.  The attached screen shot shows the 
pulses as I let off on the jog button for the X axis.

Scope trigger is on the direction signal (blue trace) falling edge.
Notice after the 2uS step pulses (yellow trace) have stopped the direction 
signal changes 3 times.
Why?


This has to do with the stepgen control loop having much greater
resolution than a single step so tiny corrections may change the
direction (though timing is always obeyed). It may also have to do with PID 
setup.






I'm also seeing occasional joint 0 following errors when I change direction 
which is what prompted putting the scope on the signals.  It's open loop 
step/dir with no encoder feedback so something is not quite right.



try commenting out these lines (for all axis)

net x-vel-cmd   =>  pid.x.command-deriv
setp   pid.x.maxerror .0005



Here's the ini file parameters for this axis.  Below that the hal file 
originally created by pncconfig.  Should not
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.control-type 1
be control-type 0?



No, needs to be 1




#
# Axis X
#
[AXIS_0]
TYPE = LINEAR
HOME = 0.0
FERROR = 0.05
MIN_FERROR = 0.01
MAX_VELOCITY = 2.5
MAX_ACCELERATION = 15.0
# The values below should be 25% larger than MAX_VELOCITY and MAX_ACCELERATION
# If using BACKLASH compensation STEPGEN_MAXACCEL should be 100% larger.
STEPGEN_MAXVEL = 3.125
STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 18.75
P = 1000.0
I = 0.0
D = 0.0
FF0 = 0.0
FF1 = 1.0
FF2 = 0.0
BIAS = 0.0
DEADBAND = 0.0
MAX_OUTPUT = 0.0
# these are in nanoseconds
DIRSETUP   = 1000
DIRHOLD= 1000
STEPLEN= 2000
STEPSPACE  = 1000
STEP_SCALE = 15000.0
MIN_LIMIT = -0.04
MAX_LIMIT = 13.5
BACKLASH = 0.0215
#BACKLASH = 0.0236
HOME_OFFSET = -0.1
HOME_SEARCH_VEL = -0.8
HOME_LATCH_VEL = 0.01
HOME_FINAL_VEL = 0.2
HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES
HOME_VOLATILE = 1
HOME_SEQUENCE = 1

#***
#  AXIS X
#***
setp   pid.x.Pgain [AXIS_0]P
setp   pid.x.Igain [AXIS_0]I
setp   pid.x.Dgain [AXIS_0]D
setp   pid.x.bias  [AXIS_0]BIAS
setp   pid.x.FF0   [AXIS_0]FF0
setp   pid.x.FF1   [AXIS_0]FF1
setp   pid.x.FF2   [AXIS_0]FF2
setp   pid.x.deadband  [AXIS_0]DEADBAND
setp   pid.x.maxoutput [AXIS_0]MAX_OUTPUT
setp   pid.x.error-previous-target true
setp   pid.x.maxerror .0005

net x-index-enable  <=> pid.x.index-enable
net x-enable=>  pid.x.enable
net x-pos-cmd   =>  pid.x.command
net x-vel-cmd   =>  pid.x.command-deriv
net x-pos-fb=>  pid.x.feedback
net x-output=>  pid.x.output

# Step Gen signals/setup
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.dirsetup[AXIS_0]DIRSETUP
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.dirhold [AXIS_0]DIRHOLD
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.steplen [AXIS_0]STEPLEN
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.stepspace   [AXIS_0]STEPSPACE
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.position-scale  [AXIS_0]STEP_SCALE
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.step_type0
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.control-type 1
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.maxaccel [AXIS_0]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.maxvel   [AXIS_0]STEPGEN_MAXVEL

# ---closedloop stepper signals---

net x-pos-cmd<= axis.0.motor-pos-cmd
net x-vel-cmd<= axis.0.joint-vel-cmd
net x-output => hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.velocity-cmd
net x-pos-fb <= hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.position-fb
net x-pos-fb => axis.0.motor-pos-fb
net x-enable <= axis.0.amp-enable-out
net x-enable => hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.enable




I think the best way to do this is to use a working configuration and add the
stepgen spindle control manually to the hal file. Its really not that complex
to do by hand, and if the configurator doesn't not know how to make a
step/dir controlled spindle and you add more stepgens by adding more axis
you
will just have a mess...

1. You don't need any more axis
2. You will need to enable 6 stepgens (0..5) in the driver load line
3. You need to setup stepgen 5 in velocity mode and scale it appropriately
(scale will be pulses per turn if you link the stepgen rate to the spindle
 speed in RPS or 60*steps per turn if you use the RPM spindle speed)
4. Next you need to net the spindle speed from motion to stepgen 5s
velocity
command
5. You probable also should net stepgen 5's enable to motions spindle
enable
(so the step rate is forced to 0 when the spindle is disabled)

Unless you have looked at a hal file these may seem pretty mysterious but
here
are

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks Peter,
I've got pulses coming out the Spindle Pins on connector P1.
While snooping with the scope and looking at the generated signals I've run 
into an issue.  I haven't looked at any other axis but the following 
information has to do with the X axis.  The attached screen shot shows the 
pulses as I let off on the jog button for the X axis.

Scope trigger is on the direction signal (blue trace) falling edge.  
Notice after the 2uS step pulses (yellow trace) have stopped the direction 
signal changes 3 times.
Why?

I'm also seeing occasional joint 0 following errors when I change direction 
which is what prompted putting the scope on the signals.  It's open loop 
step/dir with no encoder feedback so something is not quite right. 

Here's the ini file parameters for this axis.  Below that the hal file 
originally created by pncconfig.  Should not
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.control-type 1
be control-type 0?



#
# Axis X
#
[AXIS_0]
TYPE = LINEAR
HOME = 0.0
FERROR = 0.05
MIN_FERROR = 0.01
MAX_VELOCITY = 2.5
MAX_ACCELERATION = 15.0
# The values below should be 25% larger than MAX_VELOCITY and MAX_ACCELERATION
# If using BACKLASH compensation STEPGEN_MAXACCEL should be 100% larger.
STEPGEN_MAXVEL = 3.125
STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 18.75
P = 1000.0
I = 0.0
D = 0.0
FF0 = 0.0
FF1 = 1.0
FF2 = 0.0
BIAS = 0.0
DEADBAND = 0.0
MAX_OUTPUT = 0.0
# these are in nanoseconds
DIRSETUP   = 1000
DIRHOLD= 1000
STEPLEN= 2000
STEPSPACE  = 1000
STEP_SCALE = 15000.0
MIN_LIMIT = -0.04
MAX_LIMIT = 13.5
BACKLASH = 0.0215
#BACKLASH = 0.0236
HOME_OFFSET = -0.1
HOME_SEARCH_VEL = -0.8
HOME_LATCH_VEL = 0.01
HOME_FINAL_VEL = 0.2
HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES
HOME_VOLATILE = 1
HOME_SEQUENCE = 1

#***
#  AXIS X
#***
setp   pid.x.Pgain [AXIS_0]P
setp   pid.x.Igain [AXIS_0]I
setp   pid.x.Dgain [AXIS_0]D
setp   pid.x.bias  [AXIS_0]BIAS
setp   pid.x.FF0   [AXIS_0]FF0
setp   pid.x.FF1   [AXIS_0]FF1
setp   pid.x.FF2   [AXIS_0]FF2
setp   pid.x.deadband  [AXIS_0]DEADBAND
setp   pid.x.maxoutput [AXIS_0]MAX_OUTPUT
setp   pid.x.error-previous-target true
setp   pid.x.maxerror .0005

net x-index-enable  <=> pid.x.index-enable
net x-enable=>  pid.x.enable
net x-pos-cmd   =>  pid.x.command
net x-vel-cmd   =>  pid.x.command-deriv
net x-pos-fb=>  pid.x.feedback
net x-output=>  pid.x.output

# Step Gen signals/setup
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.dirsetup[AXIS_0]DIRSETUP
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.dirhold [AXIS_0]DIRHOLD
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.steplen [AXIS_0]STEPLEN
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.stepspace   [AXIS_0]STEPSPACE
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.position-scale  [AXIS_0]STEP_SCALE
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.step_type0
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.control-type 1
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.maxaccel [AXIS_0]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL
setp   hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.maxvel   [AXIS_0]STEPGEN_MAXVEL

# ---closedloop stepper signals---

net x-pos-cmd<= axis.0.motor-pos-cmd
net x-vel-cmd<= axis.0.joint-vel-cmd
net x-output => hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.velocity-cmd
net x-pos-fb <= hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.position-fb
net x-pos-fb => axis.0.motor-pos-fb
net x-enable <= axis.0.amp-enable-out
net x-enable => hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.00.enable



> I think the best way to do this is to use a working configuration and add the
> stepgen spindle control manually to the hal file. Its really not that complex
> to do by hand, and if the configurator doesn't not know how to make a
> step/dir controlled spindle and you add more stepgens by adding more axis
> you
> will just have a mess...
> 
> 1. You don't need any more axis
> 2. You will need to enable 6 stepgens (0..5) in the driver load line
> 3. You need to setup stepgen 5 in velocity mode and scale it appropriately
> (scale will be pulses per turn if you link the stepgen rate to the spindle
>  speed in RPS or 60*steps per turn if you use the RPM spindle speed)
> 4. Next you need to net the spindle speed from motion to stepgen 5s
> velocity
> command
> 5. You probable also should net stepgen 5's enable to motions spindle
> enable
> (so the step rate is forced to 0 when the spindle is disabled)
> 
> Unless you have looked at a hal file these may seem pretty mysterious but
> here
> are some things that should help:
> 
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/tutorial.html
> 
> also man pages:
> 
> man motion
> man hostmot2
> 
> To show actual pins/parameter/signals of a running LinuxCNC instance:
> 
> halcmd show all > all.txt
> 
> all.txt now has all pins,parameters, signals and functions of you current
> running LinuxCNC system, and can be a great copy/paste donor file so you
> dont
> need to guess at names
> 
> 
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
> 
> 
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> 

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Tue, 20 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 12:47:12 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

Asking again.


The only web link I found on this subject is 2 years old 
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/39-pncconf/32347-5i25-7i76-pin-axis-9-motor-pos-cmd-does-not-exist 
and their solution was not to use step/dir with the mesa board.


So is anyone actually using something like a mesa 7i92 with step/dir to the 
spindle?


Or can someone explain why axis.9 is defined and how LinuxCNC attaches to it?

Thanks John




I think the best way to do this is to use a working configuration and add the 
stepgen spindle control manually to the hal file. Its really not that complex 
to do by hand, and if the configurator doesn't not know how to make a
step/dir controlled spindle and you add more stepgens by adding more axis you 
will just have a mess...


1. You don't need any more axis
2. You will need to enable 6 stepgens (0..5) in the driver load line
3. You need to setup stepgen 5 in velocity mode and scale it appropriately
   (scale will be pulses per turn if you link the stepgen rate to the spindle
speed in RPS or 60*steps per turn if you use the RPM spindle speed)
4. Next you need to net the spindle speed from motion to stepgen 5s velocity
   command
5. You probable also should net stepgen 5's enable to motions spindle enable
   (so the step rate is forced to 0 when the spindle is disabled)

Unless you have looked at a hal file these may seem pretty mysterious but here 
are some things that should help:


http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/tutorial.html

also man pages:

man motion
man hostmot2

To show actual pins/parameter/signals of a running LinuxCNC instance:

halcmd show all > all.txt

all.txt now has all pins,parameters, signals and functions of you current 
running LinuxCNC system, and can be a great copy/paste donor file so you dont 
need to guess at names



Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 7:46 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> I thought I had set up a static IP.  Although the odd thing is I can set the 
> mask to 255.255.255.0 and save it but when I get back into the dialog it 
> shows 24.  Go figure.
Right, because 255.255.255 is 24 ones followed by 8 zeros, and the
netmasks are often described by how many bits they mask, denoted like
so: 192.268.11.0 /24


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

Asking again. 

The only web link I found on this subject is 2 years old
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/39-pncconf/32347-5i25-7i76-pin-axis-9-motor-pos-cmd-does-not-exist
and their solution was not to use step/dir with the mesa board.

So is anyone actually using something like a mesa 7i92 with step/dir to the 
spindle?  

Or can someone explain why axis.9 is defined and how LinuxCNC attaches to it?

Thanks
John


> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: August-18-19 1:30 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> 
> Making progress.  Dedicated Ethernet at the moment.
> So far I've been able to see the charge-pump signal (stepper #04) show up
> on DB25-17.  Machine Enabled on DB-25-1.  And all DB-25 pins for the 4
> motors show step pulses when they are jogged.  Limit switches appear to
> work.
> 
> Haven't been able to get the PWM for the spindle working but that doesn�t
> really matter at the moment because the Spindle AC Servo I bought takes
> step/dir but not PWM.
> 
> Instead I decided to add another step generator.  Using pncconf it shows up
> as StepGen #5 on pins 2,3 of the second parallel port named P1.  The
> problem is that the HAL file contains an axis.9 and as a result now LinuxCNC
> won't run.
> 
> ./Stretch-MESA.hal:306: Pin 'axis.9.motor-pos-cmd' does not exist
> 
> Included with this posting is that error and the fragment of the HAL file that
> defines all the spindle stuff.
> 
> Everything for the stepgen.05 is fine until:
> 
> # ---closedloop stepper signals---
> 
> net s-pos-cmd<= axis.9.motor-pos-cmd
> net s-vel-cmd<= axis.9.joint-vel-cmd
> net s-output => hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.velocity-cmd
> net s-pos-fb <= hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.position-fb
> net s-pos-fb => axis.9.motor-pos-fb
> net s-enable <= axis.9.amp-enable-out
> net s-enable => hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.enable
> 
> As the hal and ini files were generated by pncconf what could cause this?
> The axis steppers in the ini file are all defined as [AXIS_n] and the spindle 
> as
> [SPINDLE_9] so I can see how an axis.9 might show up but no other
> definition anywhere else.
> Must be really simple but not obvious.
> 
> Any ideas?
> Thanks
> John




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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

Making progress.  Dedicated Ethernet at the moment.  
So far I've been able to see the charge-pump signal (stepper #04) show up on 
DB25-17.  Machine Enabled on DB-25-1.  And all DB-25 pins for the 4 motors show 
step pulses when they are jogged.  Limit switches appear to work.

Haven't been able to get the PWM for the spindle working but that doesn’t 
really matter at the moment because the Spindle AC Servo I bought takes 
step/dir but not PWM.

Instead I decided to add another step generator.  Using pncconf it shows up as 
StepGen #5 on pins 2,3 of the second parallel port named P1.  The problem is 
that the HAL file contains an axis.9 and as a result now LinuxCNC won't run.

./Stretch-MESA.hal:306: Pin 'axis.9.motor-pos-cmd' does not exist

Included with this posting is that error and the fragment of the HAL file that 
defines all the spindle stuff.

Everything for the stepgen.05 is fine until:

# ---closedloop stepper signals---

net s-pos-cmd<= axis.9.motor-pos-cmd
net s-vel-cmd<= axis.9.joint-vel-cmd
net s-output => hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.velocity-cmd
net s-pos-fb <= hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.position-fb
net s-pos-fb => axis.9.motor-pos-fb
net s-enable <= axis.9.amp-enable-out
net s-enable => hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.enable

As the hal and ini files were generated by pncconf what could cause this?
The axis steppers in the ini file are all defined as [AXIS_n] and the spindle 
as [SPINDLE_9] so I can see how an axis.9 might show up but no other definition 
anywhere else.
Must be really simple but not obvious.

Any ideas?
Thanks
John

Print file information:
RUN_IN_PLACE=no
LINUXCNC_DIR=
LINUXCNC_BIN_DIR=/usr/bin
LINUXCNC_TCL_DIR=/usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc
LINUXCNC_SCRIPT_DIR=
LINUXCNC_RTLIB_DIR=/usr/lib/linuxcnc/modules
LINUXCNC_CONFIG_DIR=
LINUXCNC_LANG_DIR=/usr/share/linuxcnc/tcl/msgs
INIVAR=inivar
HALCMD=halcmd
LINUXCNC_EMCSH=/usr/bin/wish8.6
LINUXCNC - 2.7.14
Machine configuration directory is '/home/john/linuxcnc/configs/Stretch-MESA'
Machine configuration file is 'Stretch-MESA.ini'
INIFILE=/home/john/linuxcnc/configs/Stretch-MESA/Stretch-MESA.ini
PARAMETER_FILE=linuxcnc.var
TASK=milltask
HALUI=halui
DISPLAY=axis
Starting LinuxCNC...
Starting LinuxCNC server program: linuxcncsvr
Loading Real Time OS, RTAPI, and HAL_LIB modules
Starting LinuxCNC IO program: io
Starting HAL User Interface program: halui
Found file(REL): ./Stretch-MESA.hal
hm2: loading Mesa HostMot2 driver version 0.15
hm2_eth: loading Mesa AnyIO HostMot2 ethernet driver version 0.2
hm2_eth: 192.168.1.121: Hardware address: 00:60:1b:12:06:0f
hm2_eth: discovered 7I92
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: 34 I/O Pins used:
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 000 (P2-01): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 001 (P2-14): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 002 (P2-02): StepGen #0, pin Step (Output)
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 003 (P2-15): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 004 (P2-03): StepGen #0, pin Direction (Output)
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 005 (P2-16): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 006 (P2-04): StepGen #1, pin Step (Output)
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 007 (P2-17): StepGen #4, pin Step (Output)
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 008 (P2-05): StepGen #1, pin Direction (Output)
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 009 (P2-06): StepGen #2, pin Step (Output)
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 010 (P2-07): StepGen #2, pin Direction (Output)
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 011 (P2-08): StepGen #3, pin Step (Output)
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 012 (P2-09): StepGen #3, pin Direction (Output)
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 013 (P2-10): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 014 (P2-11): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 015 (P2-12): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 016 (P2-13): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 017 (P1-01): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 018 (P1-14): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 019 (P1-02): StepGen #5, pin Step (Output)
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 020 (P1-15): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 021 (P1-03): StepGen #5, pin Direction (Output)
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 022 (P1-16): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 023 (P1-04): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 024 (P1-17): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 025 (P1-05): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 026 (P1-06): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 027 (P1-07): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 028 (P1-08): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 029 (P1-09): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 030 (P1-10): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 031 (P1-11): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 032 (P1-12): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: IO Pin 033 (P1-13): IOPort
hm2/hm2_7i92.0: registered
Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
Running HAL shutdown script
Killing task linuxcncsvr, PID=3603
hm2_eth: HostMot2 ethernet driver unloaded
hm2: unloading
Removing HAL_LIB, RTAPI, and Real Time OS modules
Removing NML shared memory segments

Debug file information:
Note: Using POSIX realtime
./Stretch-MESA.hal:306: Pin 'axis.9.motor-pos-cmd' does not exist








#***
#  SPINDLE S
#***

setp   pid.s.Pgain 

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

> I would get a USB <--> Ethernet or USB <--> WIFI dongle for internet,
> otherwise
> you are pretty much doing things the hard way
> 
> You current (avahi etc) issues are basically because you have not setup the
> realtime Ethernet port with a static IP address as suggested in the hm2_eth
> man
> page

I thought I had set up a static IP.  Although the odd thing is I can set the 
mask to 255.255.255.0 and save it but when I get back into the dialog it shows 
24.  Go figure.  I'll check the man page.


> 
> 
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
> 
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sat, 17 Aug 2019, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 14:15:14 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

Alright.

Installed the newest LiveCD Stretch version replacing the Wheezy in the office. 
 Has no problem interfacing to my 192.168.0.1 router.  However using the 
network tools dialogs adding a second IP like 192.168.1.125 doesn't work.  On 
my WIN-7 system I added a second IP group with a value 192.168.126 and it has 
no trouble pinging the mesa card at 192.168.1.121. The mesa is plugged into one 
of the network switches on the main network.  This also worked on the Wheezy 
system where I could select which network IP I wanted active and then I could 
also ping the mesa from the LinuxCNC box.

Next step.  Remove the network cable to the switch.  Plug the mesa directly 
into the now Stretch version LinuxCNC box.  Reboot the LinuxCNC system.  Now I 
can ping the mesa from the LinuxCNC system.  Of course I no longer have 
internet access on that system.  8-(

But the MESA is alive!

Next step, run LinuxCNC selecting the MESA version.

Crap!

hm2_eth: ERROR: Failed to execute '/sbin/sysctl -q 
net.ipv6.conf.eth0:avahi.disable_ipv6=1'

and then Debug info.

hm2_eth: ERROR: Failed to execute '/sbin/sysctl -q 
net.ipv6.conf.eth0:avahi.disable_ipv6=1' Shutting down and cleaning up 
LinuxCNC...


There are some major network issues with this box.  That what is trivial in 
WIN-7 for accessing both network groups doesn't work on the Stretch version. 
That plugging in the ipv4 network causes complaints with the ipv6.


Oh and with the mesa plugged in, it does the usual timeout looking for the 
network before it finishes booting.


What's the simple step by step configuration needed to make this work?  What 
other debugging information is required?


Thanks
John



I would get a USB <--> Ethernet or USB <--> WIFI dongle for internet, otherwise
you are pretty much doing things the hard way

You current (avahi etc) issues are basically because you have not setup the 
realtime Ethernet port with a static IP address as suggested in the hm2_eth man 
page









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Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

Alright.  

Installed the newest LiveCD Stretch version replacing the Wheezy in the office. 
 Has no problem interfacing to my 192.168.0.1 router.  However using the 
network tools dialogs adding a second IP like 192.168.1.125 doesn't work.  On 
my WIN-7 system I added a second IP group with a value 192.168.126 and it has 
no trouble pinging the mesa card at 192.168.1.121. The mesa is plugged into one 
of the network switches on the main network.  This also worked on the Wheezy 
system where I could select which network IP I wanted active and then I could 
also ping the mesa from the LinuxCNC box.

Next step.  Remove the network cable to the switch.  Plug the mesa directly 
into the now Stretch version LinuxCNC box.  Reboot the LinuxCNC system.  Now I 
can ping the mesa from the LinuxCNC system.  Of course I no longer have 
internet access on that system.  8-(

But the MESA is alive!

Next step, run LinuxCNC selecting the MESA version.

Crap!

hm2_eth: ERROR: Failed to execute '/sbin/sysctl -q 
net.ipv6.conf.eth0:avahi.disable_ipv6=1'

and then Debug info.

hm2_eth: ERROR: Failed to execute '/sbin/sysctl -q 
net.ipv6.conf.eth0:avahi.disable_ipv6=1'
Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...

There are some major network issues with this box.  That what is trivial in 
WIN-7 for accessing both network groups doesn't work on the Stretch version.  
That plugging in the ipv4 network causes complaints with the ipv6.

Oh and with the mesa plugged in, it does the usual timeout looking for the 
network before it finishes booting.

What's the simple step by step configuration needed to make this work?   What 
other debugging information is required?

Thanks
John






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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

> 
> If you want to work in the office and not the shop.Why not do a
> remote login?

Not enough space for the scope etc. out in the shop.  Much easier to set up a 
small test set and verify things when all the lab equipment is handy.
Plus once I start moving motors attached to the mill I prefer to be by the 
machine.  At least until I trust it.
John

> 
> I have a few small Raspberry Pi type computers and an iMac with a
> large screen.  I always work from the Mac and log in to the Pis with
> the screen or just a terminal exported to the Mac.  You can use VNC,
> X11 or just ssh.No need to install LinuxCNC on the office
> computer.
> 
> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 12:39 AM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Robert.
> > That's what I was afraid of.  Tons of work when really the easy solution is
> to repartition the disk so it matches the dual boot one in the shop and then
> install from the same Live CD I used for the shop computer.  Really does
> make sense.  Just that the office one has all sorts of other stuff installed 
> but
> then I really don't use it all that much other than for testing stuff so all 
> in all
> probably the smartest choice.
> >
> > Thanks for confirming that.
> > John
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Robert Murphy [mailto:robert.mur...@gmx.com]
> > > Sent: August-16-19 12:09 AM
> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> > >
> > > I hope I haven't got the wrong end of the stick with the following.
> > >
> > > Look in /usr/lib/linuxcnc/modules
> > >
> > > It should be thereif not, you may have to update the Wheezy sources
> > > ( if you haven't already as Wheezy is EOL, it's be explained on the
> > > forums) and re install/update Linuxcnc.
> > >
> > > You'll want an Preempt-RT kernel rather than the rtai you'd use for the
> > > Parallel port and the uspace version of Linuxcnc. Which now I think
> > > about this could be the issue.
> > >
> > > Or you could install the preempt-rt kernel, boot with that kernel and do
> > > a RIP install of uspace linuxcnc and not screw up your existing install.
> > >
> > > Or if you have the disk space, shrink the wheezy install (or use some
> > > free space) and install the stretch version of Linuxcnc on a new
> > > partition, if you can avoid it don't share a swap partition between the
> > > 2 installs. It can be done, but it's a bit of a hassle when you reboot
> > > the old install.
> > >
> > > If you haven't seen JT's pages here's the Wheezy Link
> > >
> > > http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/debian7-rt.html#
> > >
> > > On 16/8/19 3:21 pm, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > > I'm working on creating the hal file for the system using the 7i92H
> > > connected to the parallel port based PMDX-126 Break Out Board.  I have
> > > LinuxCNC running with a parallel port so the hardware is good.
> > > >
> > > > Rather than stand in the shop I have a second office PC with an Wheezy
> > > version of Linux on it.  I can ping the 7i92H so it's visible to the OS.
> > > >
> > > > But when I run LinuxCNC with the new hal file that has this line:
> > > >
> > > > loadrt hm2_eth board_ip="192.168.1.121" config=" num_encoders=0
> > > num_pwmgens=0 num_stepgens=5"
> > > >
> > > > It complains that it can't find "hm2_eth".
> > > >
> > > > The Shop PC can also connect to 7i92H and when I run a hal file that has
> the
> > > above line it doesn't have any trouble.   I guess I could install the 
> > > newer
> > > LinuxCNC on the office PC but I'm curious more than troubled.
> > > >
> > > > And I'd rather work in my office at my bench where I have 4 trace
> scope,
> > > agilent pulse generator and some BoB's to be able to simulate and work
> out
> > > the details before I connect to real hardware.  It's where my PC is with 
> > > all
> > > the reference documents etc.  The one in the shop isn't even connected
> to
> > > the internet at the moment.
> > > >
> > > > So what's the best route?  Correct answer is probably upgrade the PC.
> But
> > > if it can't find it either then I'm really no further ahead.  So I'd 
> > > rather
> know
> > > the why...
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > John
> &g

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Chris Albertson]

If you want to work in the office and not the shop.Why not do a
remote login?

I have a few small Raspberry Pi type computers and an iMac with a
large screen.  I always work from the Mac and log in to the Pis with
the screen or just a terminal exported to the Mac.  You can use VNC,
X11 or just ssh.No need to install LinuxCNC on the office
computer.

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 12:39 AM John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> Thanks Robert.
> That's what I was afraid of.  Tons of work when really the easy solution is 
> to repartition the disk so it matches the dual boot one in the shop and then 
> install from the same Live CD I used for the shop computer.  Really does make 
> sense.  Just that the office one has all sorts of other stuff installed but 
> then I really don't use it all that much other than for testing stuff so all 
> in all probably the smartest choice.
>
> Thanks for confirming that.
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Robert Murphy [mailto:robert.mur...@gmx.com]
> > Sent: August-16-19 12:09 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> >
> > I hope I haven't got the wrong end of the stick with the following.
> >
> > Look in /usr/lib/linuxcnc/modules
> >
> > It should be thereif not, you may have to update the Wheezy sources
> > ( if you haven't already as Wheezy is EOL, it's be explained on the
> > forums) and re install/update Linuxcnc.
> >
> > You'll want an Preempt-RT kernel rather than the rtai you'd use for the
> > Parallel port and the uspace version of Linuxcnc. Which now I think
> > about this could be the issue.
> >
> > Or you could install the preempt-rt kernel, boot with that kernel and do
> > a RIP install of uspace linuxcnc and not screw up your existing install.
> >
> > Or if you have the disk space, shrink the wheezy install (or use some
> > free space) and install the stretch version of Linuxcnc on a new
> > partition, if you can avoid it don't share a swap partition between the
> > 2 installs. It can be done, but it's a bit of a hassle when you reboot
> > the old install.
> >
> > If you haven't seen JT's pages here's the Wheezy Link
> >
> > http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/debian7-rt.html#
> >
> > On 16/8/19 3:21 pm, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > I'm working on creating the hal file for the system using the 7i92H
> > connected to the parallel port based PMDX-126 Break Out Board.  I have
> > LinuxCNC running with a parallel port so the hardware is good.
> > >
> > > Rather than stand in the shop I have a second office PC with an Wheezy
> > version of Linux on it.  I can ping the 7i92H so it's visible to the OS.
> > >
> > > But when I run LinuxCNC with the new hal file that has this line:
> > >
> > > loadrt hm2_eth board_ip="192.168.1.121" config=" num_encoders=0
> > num_pwmgens=0 num_stepgens=5"
> > >
> > > It complains that it can't find "hm2_eth".
> > >
> > > The Shop PC can also connect to 7i92H and when I run a hal file that has 
> > > the
> > above line it doesn't have any trouble.   I guess I could install the newer
> > LinuxCNC on the office PC but I'm curious more than troubled.
> > >
> > > And I'd rather work in my office at my bench where I have 4 trace scope,
> > agilent pulse generator and some BoB's to be able to simulate and work out
> > the details before I connect to real hardware.  It's where my PC is with all
> > the reference documents etc.  The one in the shop isn't even connected to
> > the internet at the moment.
> > >
> > > So what's the best route?  Correct answer is probably upgrade the PC.  But
> > if it can't find it either then I'm really no further ahead.  So I'd rather 
> > know
> > the why...
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> >
> >
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

So here's what's running on the Office LinuxCNC PC and it is RTAI.

Linux Lenovo-1 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 3.4.55-4linuxcnc i686 
GNU/Linux
LINUXCNC_RTLIB_DIR=/usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/linuxcnc

./7i92H_Machine.hal:8: Can't find module 'hm2_eth' in 
/usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/linuxcnc
[0.00] Linux version 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae (Debian 3.4.55-4linuxcnc) () 
(gcc version 4.6.3 (Debian 4.6.3-14) ) #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 3.4.55-4linuxcnc

And here's what's running the machine in the shop.

john@LinuxCNC-G3616:~$ uname -a
Linux LinuxCNC-G3616 4.9.0-8-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.9.110-3+deb9u6 
(2018-10-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux

So an upgrade is in order!

Thanks everyone.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August-16-19 1:21 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> 
> On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 at 10:11, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> Yes.  The hal file is the same as the one on the other system.  The error
> states file not found on path... and indeed there is no folder with that
> file.  So it's somewhere else or was never installed.  But with Wheezy
> discontinued I guess it's like WIN-XP.
> 
> The LinuxCNC Wheezy repositories are still there, the moving of the Debian
> ones should not have had any effect.
> 
> Which LinuxCNC version are you using? Note that hm2_eth does not work
> with
> RTAI, you need the uspace version of LinuxCNC.
> 
> uname -a
> 
> To see which kernel you are running. LimuxCNC uspace edition will run on a
> non-realtime kernel, possibly well enough to find and enumerate the cards.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Stuart Stevenson]

> To see which kernel you are running. LimuxCNC uspace edition will run on a
> non-realtime kernel, possibly well enough to find and enumerate the cards.
>

Is LimuxCNC an English version?

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 at 10:11, John Dammeyer  wrote:

Yes.  The hal file is the same as the one on the other system.  The error
states file not found on path... and indeed there is no folder with that
file.  So it's somewhere else or was never installed.  But with Wheezy
discontinued I guess it's like WIN-XP.

The LinuxCNC Wheezy repositories are still there, the moving of the Debian
ones should not have had any effect.

Which LinuxCNC version are you using? Note that hm2_eth does not work with
RTAI, you need the uspace version of LinuxCNC.

uname -a

To see which kernel you are running. LimuxCNC uspace edition will run on a
non-realtime kernel, possibly well enough to find and enumerate the cards.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

> >
> > But when I run LinuxCNC with the new hal file that has this line:
> >
> > loadrt hm2_eth board_ip="192.168.1.121" config=" num_encoders=0
> > num_pwmgens=0 num_stepgens=5"
> >
> > It complains that it can't find "hm2_eth".
> >
> 
> Just to check, do you first "loadrt hostmot2" before the loadrt hm2_eth?

Yes.  The hal file is the same as the one on the other system.  The error 
states file not found on path... and indeed there is no folder with that file.  
So it's somewhere else or was never installed.  But with Wheezy discontinued I 
guess it's like WIN-XP.  Have to put it behind me.
John

> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 at 07:24, John Dammeyer  wrote:

>
> But when I run LinuxCNC with the new hal file that has this line:
>
> loadrt hm2_eth board_ip="192.168.1.121" config=" num_encoders=0
> num_pwmgens=0 num_stepgens=5"
>
> It complains that it can't find "hm2_eth".
>

Just to check, do you first "loadrt hostmot2" before the loadrt hm2_eth?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks Robert.
That's what I was afraid of.  Tons of work when really the easy solution is to 
repartition the disk so it matches the dual boot one in the shop and then 
install from the same Live CD I used for the shop computer.  Really does make 
sense.  Just that the office one has all sorts of other stuff installed but 
then I really don't use it all that much other than for testing stuff so all in 
all probably the smartest choice.

Thanks for confirming that.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Robert Murphy [mailto:robert.mur...@gmx.com]
> Sent: August-16-19 12:09 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga
> 
> I hope I haven't got the wrong end of the stick with the following.
> 
> Look in /usr/lib/linuxcnc/modules
> 
> It should be thereif not, you may have to update the Wheezy sources
> ( if you haven't already as Wheezy is EOL, it's be explained on the
> forums) and re install/update Linuxcnc.
> 
> You'll want an Preempt-RT kernel rather than the rtai you'd use for the
> Parallel port and the uspace version of Linuxcnc. Which now I think
> about this could be the issue.
> 
> Or you could install the preempt-rt kernel, boot with that kernel and do
> a RIP install of uspace linuxcnc and not screw up your existing install.
> 
> Or if you have the disk space, shrink the wheezy install (or use some
> free space) and install the stretch version of Linuxcnc on a new
> partition, if you can avoid it don't share a swap partition between the
> 2 installs. It can be done, but it's a bit of a hassle when you reboot
> the old install.
> 
> If you haven't seen JT's pages here's the Wheezy Link
> 
> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/debian7-rt.html#
> 
> On 16/8/19 3:21 pm, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> > I'm working on creating the hal file for the system using the 7i92H
> connected to the parallel port based PMDX-126 Break Out Board.  I have
> LinuxCNC running with a parallel port so the hardware is good.
> >
> > Rather than stand in the shop I have a second office PC with an Wheezy
> version of Linux on it.  I can ping the 7i92H so it's visible to the OS.
> >
> > But when I run LinuxCNC with the new hal file that has this line:
> >
> > loadrt hm2_eth board_ip="192.168.1.121" config=" num_encoders=0
> num_pwmgens=0 num_stepgens=5"
> >
> > It complains that it can't find "hm2_eth".
> >
> > The Shop PC can also connect to 7i92H and when I run a hal file that has the
> above line it doesn't have any trouble.   I guess I could install the newer
> LinuxCNC on the office PC but I'm curious more than troubled.
> >
> > And I'd rather work in my office at my bench where I have 4 trace scope,
> agilent pulse generator and some BoB's to be able to simulate and work out
> the details before I connect to real hardware.  It's where my PC is with all
> the reference documents etc.  The one in the shop isn't even connected to
> the internet at the moment.
> >
> > So what's the best route?  Correct answer is probably upgrade the PC.  But
> if it can't find it either then I'm really no further ahead.  So I'd rather 
> know
> the why...
> >
> > Thanks
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Robert Murphy]

I hope I haven't got the wrong end of the stick with the following.

Look in /usr/lib/linuxcnc/modules

It should be thereif not, you may have to update the Wheezy sources
( if you haven't already as Wheezy is EOL, it's be explained on the
forums) and re install/update Linuxcnc.

You'll want an Preempt-RT kernel rather than the rtai you'd use for the
Parallel port and the uspace version of Linuxcnc. Which now I think
about this could be the issue.

Or you could install the preempt-rt kernel, boot with that kernel and do
a RIP install of uspace linuxcnc and not screw up your existing install.

Or if you have the disk space, shrink the wheezy install (or use some
free space) and install the stretch version of Linuxcnc on a new
partition, if you can avoid it don't share a swap partition between the
2 installs. It can be done, but it's a bit of a hassle when you reboot
the old install.

If you haven't seen JT's pages here's the Wheezy Link

http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/debian7-rt.html#

On 16/8/19 3:21 pm, John Dammeyer wrote:

Hi everyone,
I'm working on creating the hal file for the system using the 7i92H connected 
to the parallel port based PMDX-126 Break Out Board.  I have LinuxCNC running 
with a parallel port so the hardware is good.

Rather than stand in the shop I have a second office PC with an Wheezy version 
of Linux on it.  I can ping the 7i92H so it's visible to the OS.

But when I run LinuxCNC with the new hal file that has this line:

loadrt hm2_eth board_ip="192.168.1.121" config=" num_encoders=0 num_pwmgens=0 
num_stepgens=5"

It complains that it can't find "hm2_eth".

The Shop PC can also connect to 7i92H and when I run a hal file that has the 
above line it doesn't have any trouble.   I guess I could install the newer 
LinuxCNC on the office PC but I'm curious more than troubled.

And I'd rather work in my office at my bench where I have 4 trace scope, 
agilent pulse generator and some BoB's to be able to simulate and work out the 
details before I connect to real hardware.  It's where my PC is with all the 
reference documents etc.  The one in the shop isn't even connected to the 
internet at the moment.

So what's the best route?  Correct answer is probably upgrade the PC.  But if 
it can't find it either then I'm really no further ahead.  So I'd rather know 
the why...

Thanks
John




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[Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[John Dammeyer]

Hi everyone,
I'm working on creating the hal file for the system using the 7i92H connected 
to the parallel port based PMDX-126 Break Out Board.  I have LinuxCNC running 
with a parallel port so the hardware is good.

Rather than stand in the shop I have a second office PC with an Wheezy version 
of Linux on it.  I can ping the 7i92H so it's visible to the OS.

But when I run LinuxCNC with the new hal file that has this line:

loadrt hm2_eth board_ip="192.168.1.121" config=" num_encoders=0 num_pwmgens=0 
num_stepgens=5"

It complains that it can't find "hm2_eth".

The Shop PC can also connect to 7i92H and when I run a hal file that has the 
above line it doesn't have any trouble.   I guess I could install the newer 
LinuxCNC on the office PC but I'm curious more than troubled.  

And I'd rather work in my office at my bench where I have 4 trace scope, 
agilent pulse generator and some BoB's to be able to simulate and work out the 
details before I connect to real hardware.  It's where my PC is with all the 
reference documents etc.  The one in the shop isn't even connected to the 
internet at the moment.

So what's the best route?  Correct answer is probably upgrade the PC.  But if 
it can't find it either then I'm really no further ahead.  So I'd rather know 
the why...

Thanks
John




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