Re: [e-users] Mouse cursor size
On 13/01/2023 20:00, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 13:12:07 + Peter Flynn said: [...] they can. have you seen the pointer settings dialog with a slider for size? i said it has both a size AND pointer scale to scale. I managed to miss that, thank you! I've been away from e for 4–5 years (so I'll have other questions too :-) Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Mouse cursor size
On 13/01/2023 11:34, Carsten Haitzler wrote: [...] as below - you want a larger thing that actually starts big and zooms down to where the pointer is causing motion that your eyes follow to that point and then can discover the mouse - there is no such feature in e at this point. That is not a requirement. The requirement is for a BIG CURSOR. if it's 2x as big it's still a pointer on a busy screen full of content that if you don't have the visual acuity to make out is still hard to see. If it's big and (eg) red it will be seen. x cursors (libxcursor and x cursor themes) are "dumb" as i described. simple images or a sequence of images to display. e renders its cursor live from the same theme elements that make up everything else (border, backgrounds, buttons, window borders) thus they can do everything any theme element can do. it's all done the same way. thus these objects accept signals (like a mouse click), scale like the theme and size like all of these other theme elements - cursor is defined in the theme like everything else. efl apps do the same as e - they use efl to render the mouse cursor if they need a custom one of their own. Ah. So I could write some code to make a bigger mouse pointer? as a result x cursors are very limited in what they can do. a set of N images for sizing and then N images in sequence looping if you want animation and a hotspot. that's it. e's cursors can do this Except they cannot do sizing independently from the rest of the theme, if I understand you right. any amount of signals can be sent to a pointer and the theme can respond. I love your enthusiasm and explanation. Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Mouse cursor size
On 12/01/2023 20:01, Φ SNAKΣ ΣYΣZ Φ wrote: Are you aware of xmag? That does not seem to magnify just the mouse pointer (cursor). Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Mouse cursor size
On 11/01/2023 08:53, Carsten Haitzler wrote: [...] chances are that if you can't see a cursor due to visual acuity problems you can't make out other ui elements either and they all need to get bigger. The actual answer is, we don't know. I need to arrange a proper usability test in the labs in my college (which I can do, given the time). why not just wiggle the mouse? :) also produces motion. If you have problems locating the mouse, wiggling is not as good as the Ctrl key, which usually produces a vibrating expanding disc which is much more easily visible. but yes - a "fund my pointer" feature doesn't exist in e. you don't want to blink the cursor. you want some kind of "takes a lot of the screen" animation No, I think people with this problem just want a bigger cursor. End of story. e's pointer has that. e doesn't have anything to do with x cursor themes... Can you describe for me the difference between e's pointer and an x cursor? Is one logical and the other physical? Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Mouse cursor size
On 10/01/2023 19:20, Wido wrote: Hi Carsten! I appreciate that you always take the time to respond to users He's the best! E has its own cursors that uses the efl/e theme. if you use something else then "you're mileage may vary". efl's cursors will scale based on scale factor. there is no good reason to set cursor size as pointers will follow the same scale factor as everything else. This is an unrecognised problem in all interfaces. Pointer size is probably the only item that needs to be scalable *independently* of the system scale factor, because not all screens offer the same degree of clarity for moving objects (cursors) to remain visible. That is, text, menus, icons, sliders, widgets, etc *usually* stay where they are for long periods, but the mouse pointer is constantly moving. This is why most systems can be set to blink the cursor when (eg) Ctrl is pressed, because the cursor can become "lost" among the other components of the screen. Particularly as you grow older, your visual reactivity declines, so it become harder to spot the cursor, whereas you can still easily see the more static objects without difficulty. Making *everything* scale just to get a big cursor is not a good solution: the cursor needs to be scalable independently of everything else. Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Gnome Control Center missing ... something
On 01/09/2022 11:29, Carsten Haitzler wrote: [...] e doesn't have network manage support. the way this is done is the same as e's connman support. e sets up as a connman AGENT. that means when things like passwords are needed connman asks e to ask for a password. also e is allowed to control the connections like wifi on/off, change network etc. it works much the same with networkmanager. e doesnt have any support for it. so use connman if you want this to work, not networkmanager. When I finally get back to using e (soon, I hope) I will still also have other window managers which I need to switch into from time to time, and they will need networkmanager. As I was never able to get connman to actually connect to anything in the past (or even to scan and say what is visible) I have avoided it. How do I keep both connman and networkmanager installed, and have them execute according to window manager? eg if I power up, log in using (say) Cinnamon, do some work, then log out, switch to e, and log in...how do I configure it to shut down networkmanager when I exit Cinnamon, and start connman when I log in e — and vice versa? Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Errors during apt upgrade
On 19/02/2022 00:33, Ross Vandegrift wrote: [...] apt is trying to first fix the partially installed packages. You might have better luck with dpkg. Here's some ideas. Thank you so much for this. First try to use dpkg to do the removal: dpkg --remove terminology terminology-data That worked fine. And if that works, you should be able to go ahead and remove all of the wedged EFL packages: dpkg --remove libeina1a libeet1 ... That got me dpkg: warning: ignoring request to remove libeina1a:amd64 which isn't installed (repeated for each of the packages). I also had success with dpkg --remove enlightenment enlightenment-data But that puts me back to the same place: if I try to install anything, I get this (repeated for all the relevant packages) Selecting previously unselected package libevas-loaders:amd64. Preparing to unpack .../11-libevas-loaders_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb ... Unpacking libevas-loaders:amd64 (1.26.1-0bionic0) ... dpkg: error processing archive /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-BBhT2o/11-libevas-loaders_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/evas/utils/evas_generic_pdf_loader.libreoffice', which is also in package libefl 1.20.7-0bionic0 Finally got around it by doing apt autoremove and taking the error output and grabbing all the libe* entries and using dpkg to remove them and all their dependencies. Yay. Looks like a bug in the Linux Mint packages. [...] dpkg won't allow packages to overwrite one another's data. Could well be, but it's moot now,and I won't need e on this machine until I do a full wipe and install something newer...when I find a fix for the broken Emacs config. Many thanks for your help. Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Errors during apt upgrade
On 18/02/2022 17:01, Ross Vandegrift wrote: On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 03:58:49PM +, Peter Flynn wrote: Unpacking terminology-data (1.12.1-0bionic0) ... dpkg: error processing archive [...] > tl, dr: Probably the easiest fix is to manually remove all of the erroring packages and then reinstall terminology and enlightenment. Unfortunately it's not possible to remove the error packages: all apt does is repeat the error message. Looks like a bug in the Linux Mint packages. I would've guessed that Minut was using the official Debian packages, but this is a bug that never existed in my packages. I think it's more likely related to the fact that this machine hadn't been used for a long time, so there was a lot of updating, and some unrelated package triggered a chain of dependencies too long to handle. (The error is caused by the packages not having the right relationships to move files from terminology -> terminology-data during an upgrade. But terminology 1.2.1-1 from Debian did not ship /usr/share/locale. That'd be an obvious bug. So no move would be required.) Right. It's unsatisfiable. Are you trying to upgrade across multiple releases? Not of the OS. But quite possible in some individual packages. I don't know. That doesn't work with Debian, I don't know if it can work with Mint. But if you've already run through apt upgrade, it's too late for that. It's not a major problem, as I can always wipe the machine and reinstall. Without enlightenment, unfortunately, as too many applications executed within it fail to honour the 3840 × 2160 screen size on this laptop. The only reason I keep this machine on 19.2 is that it is the last release that shipped a working Emacs that handled psgml-mode: everything after it breaks all the XML stuff. I have already marked emacs and related packages NEVER to update, but so long as I preserve that, I'm OK. Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] Errors during apt upgrade
I just dug out an old laptop running Linux Mint 19.2 and unused for six months or so, and did sudo apt update sudo apt upgrade I got the following errors: Errors were encountered while processing: /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/013-enlightenment-data_0.25.1-0bionic3_all.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/014-libeina1a_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/015-libembryo-bin_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/017-libecore-bin_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/018-libemile1_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/024-libector1_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/026-libecore-wl2-1_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/031-libevas1_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/033-libelput1_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/034-libecore-drm2-1_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/037-libefreet1a_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/039-libefreet-bin_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/046-libedje-bin_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/052-libethumb-client-bin_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/062-libelementary-bin_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/063-libevas-loaders_1.26.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/098-terminology-data_1.12.1-0bionic0_all.deb E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) It doesn't say *what* errors, so I scrolled back and found the last one: Unpacking terminology-data (1.12.1-0bionic0) ... dpkg: error processing archive /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-N4vzQO/098-terminology-data_1.12.1-0bionic0_all.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite '/usr/share/locale/ca/LC_MESSAGES/terminology.mo', which is also in package terminology 1.2.1-0bionic0 dpkg-deb: error: paste subprocess was killed by signal (Broken pipe) Preparing to unpack .../099-terminology_1.12.1-0bionic0_amd64.deb ... Unpacking terminology (1.12.1-0bionic0) over (1.2.1-0bionic0) ... They all look like that, just different directories involved. I tried to remove all the referenced packages, but apt claimed they were not installed. Is there an easy way to completely remove all the crud so I can get a clean install? Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Window controls
Thank you! P On 5 September 2021 14:10:05 Quelrond wrote: Hi, If it can help - this is a modified "default" theme with window controls on the left side. There are some minor improvements too. https://www.flytrace.com/static/download/defaulti_LB.edj I use it on everyday basis, it seems to be rather stable. Regards, Peter On 04/09/2021 15:42, Peter Flynn wrote: Many years ago I and others asked if there was a config option to move the ☒ icons (close–max–min) from the right top corner of all windows to the left top corner. At the time, the only possibility was to decompile the theme, change thr script, and recompile. Are there any plans to implement this in the config? Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] Window controls
Many years ago I and others asked if there was a config option to move the ☒ icons (close–max–min) from the right top corner of all windows to the left top corner. At the time, the only possibility was to decompile the theme, change thr script, and recompile. Are there any plans to implement this in the config? Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] 4K display
On 22/06/2021 12:28, Pierre Couderc via enlightenment-users wrote: > I am considering buying a 3840x2180 display. > > I do not imagine it to be a problem for e, but I ask anyway... e itself should be OK, but a lot of applications software is not yet ready to obey the system settings for high resolutions. See my earlier message > Re: [e-users] Size of characters > From: Peter Flynn - 2018-07-24 23:26:16 Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Theme Colors
On 10/05/2021 14:25, john wrote: > Hi, > > I am trying to create a theme based on default theme which uses > different colors for menus etc. > > I have updated > #define WIN_DEFAULT_BASIC 255 255 255 255 > > in colorclasses.edc but when I use the new theme the colors are > different from what you use in gcolor2 (or other color pickers). > > Looking at WIN_DEFAULT_BASIC 255 255 255 255 I believe this should be > white but menus etc are grey. > > Is there another color config which overrides/merges the colors for > this setting? I seem to remember something which may do this but not > sure. I just noticed the ninecolors package which has some useful charts, and meets the current WCAG recommendations. https://ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/ctan.org/tex/macros/latex/contrib/ninecolors/ninecolors.pdf Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Connman
On 02/02/2021 15:29, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 13:44:04 + Peter Flynn said: [...] What does connman do that other network connection managers don't? does the same thing. like what does xterm do that rxvt does not? :) OK, cool. Just thought there might have been something special. What's the best way to disable whatever connection manager the OS has installed, and bring up connman automatically on power up. install the connman package from your distro (and if necessary enable the connman service - depends on distro). you will also want to then, if distro has not, uninstall networkmanager. OK, that's fine, thanks. Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] Connman
I'm installing a variety of recent OS releases on a sacrificial machine to evaluate them, and that includes installing their repository versions of enlightenment and terminology. Each time, e pops up a warning that connman is not present, although it seems to accept the network connection established by the installed OS (eg network-manager). What does connman do that other network connection managers don't? What's the best way to disable whatever connection manager the OS has installed, and bring up connman automatically on power up. Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Getting a "just right" font from gnome-terminal (making the font more narrow)
On Fri, 1 May 2020 19:39:53 -0700 Marc MERLIN said: Ok, I have a pretty confusing situation. I've spent hours on it and gotten nowhere. After playing with dpi settings and font sizes on a 4K laptop, I'm trying to get the perfect font that isn't too small and not too big, but that's actually an issue in both height and width. Obviously you'd think they're linked, if you change one, the other one changes too. It's a pain, and no better when choosing a monospace font for output (eg to PDF). I did some tests on the "set" (alphabet width) of a few fonts for an article in TUGboat a couple of years ago (http://tug.org/TUGboat/tb39-3/tb123inn.pdf) and ended up choosing Kris Holmes and Charles Bigelow's Luxi Mono as the best compromise (you can download URW's TT version from https://ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/LuxiMono/) Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Quick translation question
On 29/04/2020 16:15, Carsten Haitzler wrote: [...] it isn't actually necessary. evas's textblock parser is super-forgiving. it's just that its a tag that doesnt need a closing tag. so you dont do Right, just like the original HTML, you could always omit because it was SGML and them's the rules. but textblock will be just as happy with Or the literal ? (there is an actual x2029 in between the and ). P ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Quick translation question
On 29/04/2020 16:24, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
[...]
this is not html. this is textblock markup. it is html-like but it is not html.
OK, thanks. I thought it might be some other markup language.
ps literally maps to:
https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2029/index.htm
which is a unicode standard for defining a paragraph separation where
2 paragraphs may even be in different languages - one left to right
and one right to left. it's not silly.
Indeed it's not. Boustrophedon is still used, although not usually in
writing.
it's how the code and feature and thing works.
textblock actually understands very few tags. you teach it with custom tag ->
format command mappings. so literally you have:
A bit like TeX: very little built in, but limitless in what you can compose.
base: "font=Sans font_size=10 align=left color=#eee";
tag: "br" "\n";
tag: "em" "+ font_style=Oblique";
tag: "hilight" "+ font_weight=Bold color=#3399ff";
tag: "link" "+ color=#607080 underline=on underline_color=#3399ff";
Not transformable to other formats, though, unless you have a parser
which understands the syntax above\
ps is a built-in it knows about to map to the unicode paragraph separator. a
newline ascii char is a special format command to just add a newline in. it
doesn't understand em - you teach it with that tag mapping. a + at the start
pushes the new formatting onto the stack "overlaying" what was already there. a
- pops what was last there. so a tag:
is literally a pop. so you can do
hello world blah ...
or shorthand:
hello world blah ...
That's SGML. It's one of the features we removed when creating XML.
like json or c/c++ } closes the matching { so it saves you having to remember
what tag.
Yep, that's what is was invented for. In the days when this was all
written by hand, or punched onto cards :-) Seems so long ago now.
it's not silly. it's how efl actually works. it's html-like ... it's not html.
I never said it was silly, I just suggested it should not be done if
this was HTML. But the OP was not informed that it wasn't HTML, so he
(and I) made an understandable mistake.
Documenting the documentation...
P
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Re: [e-users] Quick translation question
On 29/04/2020 14:56, waterbeare...@gmx.com wrote: [...] OK, to clarify a badly formed question on my part: What is the difference between the leading and trailing slashes in the tab, if any? The trailing slashes () appeared in E23. However I have just noticed that some of the strings about gadget .desktop file errors now appear with . This is not HTML, as I pointed out. Perhaps it is some other XML markup language, or perhaps it's a private addition to HTML5. Normal elements have a start tag and an end tag, like ... In the old (pre-XML) days, empty tags like BR or IMG didn't need an end-tag because the definition of HTML (the DTD) said so, so the parser knew in advance not to bother looking for or In XML, there does not need to be a formal definition of elements (schema or DTD). HTML5 explicitly does not have one. So an element which CANNOT have text or markup content (like br or img) must ALWAYS be written as or so that the parser knows it should not go looking for any matching or On 29/04/2020 13:15, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: [...] > it's a paragraph separator. br is explicitly a newline break. Please can we stop doing this? It's an unnecessary confusion, and doesn't make the e community look good. The end of a paragraph in HTML is the end-tag. I'm not aware of any reason why this is not used (maybe there is one, but it is not clear to me). P ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Enlightenment Foundation Libraries 1.24 Release
On 29/04/2020 14:39, Stefan Schmidt wrote: [...] == Copy and Paste rework == [...] Since Copy & Paste and Drag & Drop is mostly about display protocol we have a huge amount of platform depending protocol code, this code is placed in the ecore evas modules of the corresponding platform. In elementary we have the code around to glue the ecore evas abstraction to elm code. As an example for what this code does: When ecore-evas notifies you that the selection of something has changed, this event needs to be translated to the widget that have registered a event for it. Also, when there is a mouse over while doing a dragging operation, these move events have to be delivered to the widgets that have asked for them. I am deeply impressed. Since I first wrote about Target Markup Adoption and Smart Insertion (https://cora.ucc.ie/bitstream/handle/10468/1690/Human-Interfaces-to-Structured-Documents.pdf#page=371) there have been relatively few adoptions, mainly in the Xopus and TinyMCE in-browser editors and in the "Paste Special" dialogs of some applications. I am really looking forward to seeing this. Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Enlightenment Foundation Libraries 1.24 Release
On 29/04/2020 14:39, Stefan Schmidt wrote: http://download.enlightenment.org/rel/libs/efl/efl-1.24.0.tar.xz b3b96e443c5e36a93e5fe443304ecb661a4707ef921385bf7d9ff24c9e980cfa To say nothing of the work that went into making the URI the same length as the md5sum :-) P ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Enlightenment Foundation Libraries 1.24 Release
On 29/04/2020 14:39, Stefan Schmidt wrote: After eight months of development work we are proud to announce the release of version 1.24 of the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries. In these eight months we got almost 1900 commits from 54 authors. Great job everyone! That's a wonderful achievement! Looking forward to it. P ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Quick translation question
On 29/04/2020 12:06, aguador wrote: I am in the process of updating the Spanish translation for E24 and am curious about the "ps" tag. There is no such element in HTML. It may be a proprietary add-on. When I updated for E23, I saw that most tags were replaced by , That is probably an error. although I could not find the latter on any list of XML tags. Now I see that there are both and tags. I would be interested to know what they mean. * How and where are these tags defined? They aren't. * Are both correct and how do they differ (as they do not seem to be paired)? I think they are a mistake. * Why are they preferred over ? * Should the few remaining tags be replaced? No. Use (for old-style HTML up to v4) or for XHTML and HTML5. The element is normally not needed at all and should be a great rarity: it is intended for premature linebreaks *inside* a paragraph. It should never be used as a substitute for a paragraph — use normal ... for that. If you want repeated newlines, use a list. If you want closer spacing, use CSS to control the layout. Abusing HTML to do layouts that are better done in CSS is a sign of the amateur and I'm pretty certain we should not be doing that. Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] competitors to E?
On 15/04/2020 07:26, Marc MERLIN wrote: I'm upgrading from a thinkpad P70 to a P73 (both have 4K 17" LCDs). I upgraded last year to a HP Envy 17" and unfortunately e was causing problems. At the time I switched to cinnamon (as I'm using Mint 19.2) because I was under serious time pressure. Now is probably a good time for me to revisit it and document what it's not doing. I figured that before I put all my environment back on top, I should try another WM and maybe a DM to see how things have progressed. Pretty much anything else is a step backwards from I'm going to skip gnome, I doubt I'll like it given how they are ok with change things between versions and remove options that people are using. No WM is immune to that. One thing that makes it difficult for me to use anything but E (been using it for over 20 years since e16), is that I'm so used [...] Same, for similar reasons. Incidentally, edge flip to traverse the desktops is so useful: Carsten, you're right to be stubborn — I cannot see why people would want it removed, even if they're not using it themselves. The biggest unresolved problem in *using* e is nothing to do with e itself AFAIK: it's the insistence of arrogant and thoughtless app developers that they refuse to honour the font size and cursor size of the WM *without reference to the screen size*. This means that some apps work fine and legibly on a 4K 17" screen but others are ludicrously tiny and provide no way to enlarge the interface font, and the cursor is about 3 pixels. The result is that many apps are quite literally unusable unless you have a magnifying-glass. They don't even always support (eg) cinnamon. Have a look at what I installed last week: the authors say there is no way to fix it. http://silmaril.ie/screenshots/editix-on-hp-envy-17in-laptop-under-mint19.png Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Enlightenment Developer Days call for proposals
On 22/10/2019 08:04, Stefan Schmidt wrote: [...] I missed the announcement: can you point me at details (date/location)? https://sourceforge.net/p/enlightenment/mailman/message/36762315/ Thank you very much! It links to https://phab.enlightenment.org/w/events/enlightenment_developer_days_2019/ Can Not Connect to MySQL P ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Enlightenment Developer Days call for proposals
On 21/10/2019 16:35, Stefan Schmidt wrote: Hello. As we are approaching roughly one month before EDD I missed the announcement: can you point me at details (date/location)? Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] End-user doc
On 18/06/2019 08:29, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 22:27:46 +0100 Peter Flynn said: [...] >> Thank you. Unfortunately that doesn't cover my immediate problem, which >> is that my new machine has a very high-resolution screen, so normal >> application windows are microscopically tiny, even with the e scale set >> to 2.2. It would need to be about 5 to work properly. >> >> Setting the default fonts has no effect: the window furniture components >> of (eg Thunderbird, Chromium, Emacs etc) are unreadably small and resist >> all attempts to invoke larger fonts. >> >> The application *body fonts* can be set within each app OK (eg Tbird's >> message window, Chromium's document body, and Emacs' buffers) — it's the >> menus (and in Tbird's case, folder and message nav panes) which remain >> small. > > enlightenment doesn't address other toolkits or how they want to scale. it > sets > its own scaling and this also affects efl apps that use elementary. the rest > is > an issue for gtk, qt, and chrome itself, libreoffice, firefox etc. - apps that > do their own toolkits. we have no code to go swizzling these other toolkits or > apps etc. Right. But something in E must be preventing these applications from using the font sizes I have set in them. I changed their settings while using them under E, and they had no effect (that in itself is wrong), so when I logged out and logged into a Cinnamon job, I get this: http://silmaril.ie/screenshots/emptyscreen-cinnamon.png http://silmaril.ie/screenshots/chromium-cinnamon.png http://silmaril.ie/screenshots/thunderbird-cinnamon.png So they *have* taken effect, but when I log out and back into E, the settings are not in effect. Something is preventing the apps from using the settings: http://silmaril.ie/screenshots/enlightenment.png > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/HiDPI It says Cinnamon supports hi-res laptop screens, which it does, and it also works with the apps run within it. It says in E to use Look > Scaling, which I have tried, but that of course only affects the E interface itself, not any apps. It also works backwards, so for the very hi-res screen I have had to set "Scale relative to screen DPI" to a base value of 48dpi in order to make things readable. > look at the toolkits section, browsers etc. No, there is no point in you wasting your valuable time messing with other people's settings. Unfortunately this makes E completely unusable on very high resolution screens for normal everyday work in third-party applications. Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] End-user doc
On 17/06/2019 18:07, aguador wrote: [...] > Welcome back! I don't know about a wiki, but there is a compendium of > configuration options here that may give you what you're looking for: > > https://phab.enlightenment.org/w/e_configuration_options_compendium/ Thank you. Unfortunately that doesn't cover my immediate problem, which is that my new machine has a very high-resolution screen, so normal application windows are microscopically tiny, even with the e scale set to 2.2. It would need to be about 5 to work properly. Setting the default fonts has no effect: the window furniture components of (eg Thunderbird, Chromium, Emacs etc) are unreadably small and resist all attempts to invoke larger fonts. The application *body fonts* can be set within each app OK (eg Tbird's message window, Chromium's document body, and Emacs' buffers) — it's the menus (and in Tbird's case, folder and message nav panes) which remain small. Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] End-user doc
I'm just getting back into using E having got a new laptop, but I've lost the documentation for end-users. https://www.enlightenment.org/docs/start is restricted to developer doc. In https://www.enlightenment.org/contrib/docs/start.md it mentions the DokuWiki but there are no links to the wiki itself. Anyone know where it is? P ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] On-screen keyboard for touch-screen usage
On 14/01/2019 00:24, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:47:17 +0000 Peter Flynn said: [...] >> I don't know if they work in Linux at all, let alone E. Aren't they all >> proprietary Windows-only drivers? > > every single one i've seen works on linux. Thanks, that's very good news. P ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] On-screen keyboard for touch-screen usage
On 13/01/2019 02:18, Daniel Kasak wrote: > Hi all. > > I just got a new laptop ( yay! ) I'm in the market. What did you get? If you don't mind saying. > which has a touchscreen. I don't know if they work in Linux at all, let alone E. Aren't they all proprietary Windows-only drivers? P ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] Dual monitor
I have just added a second monitor to my test system running E19 from ppa:niko2040/e19 under Mint 19. It SIGSEGVs immediately on login. I logged out and logged back in using Cinnamon, and used their GUI for Displays to configure it: the primary monitor is landscape and the secondary monitor is portrait (able to display a full page of A3). If I log out and log back into E, it immediately SIGSEGVs. What are my options here? What log files should I be looking for clues in? Is there an updated prebuilt e+terminology available as a .deb from anywhere else? Peter -- Here is the output of xrandr: Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 2970 x 1680, maximum 8192 x 8192 HDMI-1 connected 1050x1680+0+0 right (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 430mm x 270mm 1680x1050 59.88*+ 1280x1024 75.0260.02 1152x864 75.00 1024x768 75.0360.00 800x600 75.0060.32 640x480 75.0059.94 720x400 70.08 DP-1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) HDMI-2 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) DVI-I-1-1 connected primary 1920x1080+1050+600 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 527mm x 296mm 1920x1080 60.00*+ 50.0059.94 1920x1080i60.0050.0059.94 1600x1200 60.00 1600x900 60.00 1280x1024 75.0260.02 1152x864 75.00 1280x720 60.0050.0059.94 1024x768 75.0360.00 800x600 75.0060.32 720x576 50.00 720x480 60.0059.94 640x480 75.0060.0059.94 720x400 70.08 DVI-D-1-1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) HDMI-1-3 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 1280x1024 (0x4f) 135.000MHz +HSync +VSync h: width 1280 start 1296 end 1440 total 1688 skew0 clock 79.98KHz v: height 1024 start 1025 end 1028 total 1066 clock 75.02Hz 1280x1024 (0x50) 108.000MHz +HSync +VSync h: width 1280 start 1328 end 1440 total 1688 skew0 clock 63.98KHz v: height 1024 start 1025 end 1028 total 1066 clock 60.02Hz 1152x864 (0x51) 108.000MHz +HSync +VSync h: width 1152 start 1216 end 1344 total 1600 skew0 clock 67.50KHz v: height 864 start 865 end 868 total 900 clock 75.00Hz 1024x768 (0x55) 78.750MHz +HSync +VSync h: width 1024 start 1040 end 1136 total 1312 skew0 clock 60.02KHz v: height 768 start 769 end 772 total 800 clock 75.03Hz 1024x768 (0x56) 65.000MHz -HSync -VSync h: width 1024 start 1048 end 1184 total 1344 skew0 clock 48.36KHz v: height 768 start 771 end 777 total 806 clock 60.00Hz 800x600 (0x57) 49.500MHz +HSync +VSync h: width 800 start 816 end 896 total 1056 skew0 clock 46.88KHz v: height 600 start 601 end 604 total 625 clock 75.00Hz 800x600 (0x58) 40.000MHz +HSync +VSync h: width 800 start 840 end 968 total 1056 skew0 clock 37.88KHz v: height 600 start 601 end 605 total 628 clock 60.32Hz 640x480 (0x5c) 31.500MHz -HSync -VSync h: width 640 start 656 end 720 total 840 skew0 clock 37.50KHz v: height 480 start 481 end 484 total 500 clock 75.00Hz 640x480 (0x5e) 25.175MHz -HSync -VSync h: width 640 start 656 end 752 total 800 skew0 clock 31.47KHz v: height 480 start 490 end 492 total 525 clock 59.94Hz 720x400 (0x5f) 28.320MHz -HSync +VSync h: width 720 start 738 end 846 total 900 skew0 clock 31.47KHz v: height 400 start 412 end 414 total 449 clock 70.08Hz ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] xdg-open troubles
On 04/11/2018 13:14, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: [...] > it'll pick one of whatever app says it can open that mime type... > whatever comes first that it finds, That was my understanding also. But it doesn't: * /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache says (simplified) application/pdf=qpdfview.desktop;evince.desktop;gimp.desktop; because *I* want them to open with qpdfview but evince disagreed *and then* GIMP stuck its oar in and added itself * if I type the command xdg-open foobar.pdf it opens in evince * if I double-click on foobar.pdf in efm it opens in qpdfview * if the genealogical application Gramps generates a PDF report, it opens GIMP to display it! Obviously E is doing it right and the others are wrong :-) > UNLESS you happen to change that. and it's as simple as opening that > mime type via efm and using "open with" ... and selecting the > appropriate app, then it'll use whatever you last happened to use > there as that becomes your preferred opener of that type. Part of the problem is that I hardly ever use GUI file managers, and if I do it's usually caja. > you could beat your head against the massive default applications > dialog and manually select there mime type by mime type... but just > using efm is the simplest way... Yes, but fortunately it was only to mime types and both the bogus associations were made by one application. I have added the relevant commands to my setup script for installing new systems now, so I shouldn't have any more trouble. Thanks for your help. ///Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] xdg-open troubles
On 03/11/2018 18:28, Ross Vandegrift wrote: > On Sat, Nov 03, 2018 at 05:19:13PM +0000, Peter Flynn wrote: >> On 03/11/2018 11:49, Peter Flynn wrote: >> [...] >>> That seems to be clean, but /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache >>> isn't. Can I just delete it manually, or is there a procedure to flush >>> it out? >> >> I just edited it and removed the bogus association for GIMP. > > See update-desktop-database(1) for more info on what generates these. Thanks for the pointer. Now I can see where it came from. >> All working fine (but of course I have no idea what random application >> was the cause). Many applications make a land-grab for their pet MIME >> media-type and happily stomp on the associations that a user prefers. > > Apps list their supported mime types in their .desktop file. That's how file > managers get a reasonable list of apps that support a given file. So gimp > gets > associated with application/pdf since gimp's .desktop file indicates that it > can handle PDFs. It's a matter of degree, and update-desktop-database cannot possibly know when an application is being economical with the truth. GIMP only "supports" PDF and Postscript in the sense that it can import a page as a bitmap. GIMP cannot "open" a PDF or Postscript file in the normal sense of the word. I have edited the gimp.desktop files in both locations and removed the application/pdf and application/postscript to prevent the problem reoccurring. > In an E session, does your env have XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=enlightenment? Yes, but it's capitalised (Enlightenment). > If not, xdg-open may be falling back to a handler that doesn't pick > up your Enlightenment config. That was certainly a problem in earlier versions of xdg-open but I think so many people complained that they fixed it. The code now tests for both ENLIGHTENMENT and Enlightenment but not enlightenment. ///Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] xdg-open troubles
On 03/11/2018 11:49, Peter Flynn wrote: [...] > That seems to be clean, but /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache > isn't. Can I just delete it manually, or is there a procedure to flush > it out? I just edited it and removed the bogus association for GIMP. All working fine (but of course I have no idea what random application was the cause). Many applications make a land-grab for their pet MIME media-type and happily stomp on the associations that a user prefers. ///Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] xdg-open troubles
On 03/11/2018 09:04, Jérémy Zurcher wrote: > Hi, > > you should first debug xdg-... > > XDG_UTILS_DEBUG_LEVEL=2 xdg-mime query default 'text/html' OK. > XDG_UTILS_DEBUG_LEVEL=2 xdg-mime query default 'bad/wrong' -> to see what > files are read Now *that* was enormously useful, thank you. Pipe std.err and tweak it to be a grep for 'pdf', execute the lines, then grep the output for 'gimp'...eg XDG_UTILS_DEBUG_LEVEL=2 xdg-mime query default 'bad/wrong' 2>&1 | sed -e "s+Checking+grep -iH pdf+" -e "s+ and + +"| bash | grep -i gimp and it turns up: /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache:application/pdf=qpdfview.desktop;evince-previewer.desktop;evince.desktop;kde4-okularApplication_pdf.desktop;xreader.desktop;texworks.desktop;gimp.desktop; /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache:application/postscript=qpdfview.desktop;evince-previewer.desktop;evince.desktop;kde4-okularApplication_ghostview.desktop;xreader.desktop;gimp.desktop; Clearly something has been meddling with the settings for no good reason. > so on a 'regular setup' everything boils down to : .config/mimeapps.list That seems to be clean, but /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache isn't. Can I just delete it manually, or is there a procedure to flush it out? ///Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] xdg-open troubles
On 02/11/2018 21:05, Ross Vandegrift wrote: > On Fri, Nov 02, 2018 at 07:21:36PM +0000, Peter Flynn wrote: >> xdg-open calls enlightenment_open to open a file with its nominated >> handler. On my system, PDFs open with GIMP for some unfathomable reason, >> and all my browsers are incapable of calling Thunderbird to open mailto: >> links. > > Settings -> Apps -> Default applications. Email is in the Core tab. > Other cases are listed by mime type in the General tab. Thank you...as I thought, Email is already set to Thunderbird and application/pdf is already set to Document Viewer. 1. But if I type xdg-open foobar.pdf it opens GIMP (ie behaviour is false, but it's what the applications are doing). BTW file -i correctly identifies PDF files as application/pdf 2. If I type xdg-open mailto:pe...@silmaril.ie a Thunderbird Compose window opens (ie behaviour is correct, but all my browsers fail to invoke it). Is it possible that for [1] something is overriding the file identity? ///Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] xdg-open troubles
xdg-open calls enlightenment_open to open a file with its nominated handler. On my system, PDFs open with GIMP for some unfathomable reason, and all my browsers are incapable of calling Thunderbird to open mailto: links. How does enlightenment_open work? I must presumably be able to set each filetype to open with the correct application somehow. Is there a config file I can edit to force it to use the right applications? (And then preferably lock it down hard so that any applications I install in the future don't try to mess with the settings, which I suspect is why it's broken...) ///Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Battery indicator
On 12/09/18 09:05, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 14:08:00 +0100 Peter Flynn said: > >> The battery indicator in my shelf/bryce is stuck on max. I've been using >> this laptop all morning, and it still says I have a fully-charged >> battery, which is obviously incorrect. >> >> It's a Dell XPS 15 running Mint 18 and e 0.22.3 from the >> ppa:niko2040/e19 repo. >> >> I don't know what the indicator tests, but from experience when the >> battery does get down to zero, the system goes black and dies without >> warning, so the laptop is presumably providing the information in a >> different place to the one expected, or has otherwise changed the way it >> does power management. >> >> Is there something I should be looking for? > > I haven't seen that before... is this shelf or the new bryce one? The new bryce one. But restarting e makes it display correctly until the next suspension/hibernation. ///Peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Battery indicator
On 10/09/18 15:02, Massimo Maiurana wrote: > [...] It works back again after resume if I restart E. Found it. In the menus, where it should be. P > Il 10 settembre 2018 15:08:00 CEST, Peter Flynn ha > scritto: > > The battery indicator in my shelf/bryce is stuck on max. I've been using > this laptop all morning, and it still says I have a fully-charged > battery, which is obviously incorrect. > > It's a Dell XPS 15 running Mint 18 and e 0.22.3 from the > ppa:niko2040/e19 repo. > > I don't know what the indicator tests, but from experience when the > battery does get down to zero, the system goes black and dies without > warning, so the laptop is presumably providing the information in a > different place to the one expected, or has otherwise changed the way it > does power management. > > Is there something I should be looking for? > > P > > > > > enlightenment-users mailing list > enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users > > > -- > Inviato dal mio dispositivo Android con K-9 Mail. Perdonate la brevità. -- Peter Flynn | Principal Consultant | Silmaril Consultants | Cork Ireland | ☎ +353 86 824 5333 | ✉ pe...@silmaril.ie | blogs.silmaril.ie/peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Battery indicator
On 10/09/18 15:02, Massimo Maiurana wrote: > Did you suspend your laptop? Yes :-) Aha... > On my laptop the battery indicator in the > bryce works until suspend/resume, then it is stuck at whatever status it > was before suspend. It works back again after resume if I restart E. Logout and login? Ctrl-Alt-BackSp doesn't seem to work. > Instead, the battery indicator in the shelf always works, even after resume. OK, many thanks. ///Peter > Il 10 settembre 2018 15:08:00 CEST, Peter Flynn ha > scritto: > > The battery indicator in my shelf/bryce is stuck on max. I've been using > this laptop all morning, and it still says I have a fully-charged > battery, which is obviously incorrect. > > It's a Dell XPS 15 running Mint 18 and e 0.22.3 from the > ppa:niko2040/e19 repo. > > I don't know what the indicator tests, but from experience when the > battery does get down to zero, the system goes black and dies without > warning, so the laptop is presumably providing the information in a > different place to the one expected, or has otherwise changed the way it > does power management. > > Is there something I should be looking for? > > P > > > > > enlightenment-users mailing list > enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users > > > -- > Inviato dal mio dispositivo Android con K-9 Mail. Perdonate la brevità. -- Peter Flynn | Principal Consultant | Silmaril Consultants | Cork Ireland | ☎ +353 86 824 5333 | ✉ pe...@silmaril.ie | blogs.silmaril.ie/peter ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] Battery indicator
The battery indicator in my shelf/bryce is stuck on max. I've been using this laptop all morning, and it still says I have a fully-charged battery, which is obviously incorrect. It's a Dell XPS 15 running Mint 18 and e 0.22.3 from the ppa:niko2040/e19 repo. I don't know what the indicator tests, but from experience when the battery does get down to zero, the system goes black and dies without warning, so the laptop is presumably providing the information in a different place to the one expected, or has otherwise changed the way it does power management. Is there something I should be looking for? P ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Removing gadgets from desktop
On 24/08/18 11:24, Mick wrote: > On Friday, 24 August 2018 10:40:43 BST Peter Flynn wrote: >> I didn't think that any Linux worked with touch screen devices. I looked >> last year, as I was in the market for a new laptop, and I reckoned it >> would be 4–5 years before the hardware would be stable enough to write >> for it in an open source environment where you don't have commercial >> access to the APIs or privileged access to the specs. > > Suits me, I detest thumbprints on screens! ;-) I've been known to "help" a user by leaning over their shoulder to touch something on their screen, only to find theirs isn't a touchscreen... >> Bryce is being renamed, apparently. That's probably good. It's called a >> dock or a toolbar usually. > > Whatever it may be called, how is Bryce launched? I don't see it under > extensions, shelves, modules, gadgets in Settings. :-/ It's not. It's under Menu > Desktop > Add Bryce, presumably because it's an entirely separate system from any of the existing shelf/ibar-related extensions/shelves/modules/gadgets. The setup asks you to select screen edge (T/B/L/R), position (left/top, middle/centre, or right/bottom), opacity, auto-resize (yes), auto-hide (yes), and the mysterious "Do not stack above windows" which I left untouched as I don't understand its implications, because a dock/toolbar doesn't "stack", it pops up and pops away. That gives you a rudimentary dock like a Mac (which is why I like it so much). When you run an application from the normal menus, its icon appears in the bryce and you can right-click it and pick (+) to add it permanently. Repeat for your primary applications. For the gadets, place your mouse pointer on any of the icons and then use Alt-rightclick and pick Bryce > Gadgets. The Gadgets panel uses floating-drag, so you click and release and the selected gadget becomes sticky so you can drag it *without* holding down the mouse button, and drop it onto the bryce where you want it. One of the gadgets is a whole block of icons of popular applications, so you might want to start with that rather than adding them all individually. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Removing gadgets from desktop
On 23/08/18 02:12, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: [...] > you hit one of the usability problems. it needs hidden bindings to use it (not > obvious/srtandard way of accessing the controls). I should have deduced Alt earlier, though. It's pretty standard... > to change size of a bryce you need ctr mouse wheel... what if you > don't have a mouse wheel? Right, but I suspect the number of people wanting to change the size of the bryce is fairly small. > what if you don't have a keyboard around (touch screen only)? That too, but I don't know of anyone attempting to use e on a touch-screen device. > i am actually looking at doing just that. That would be wonderful. > no. it's an issue with bryce as you have to be told about the magic keys" > needed to control it. I just Googled for it and Alt was revealed to me in a cloud of thunder :-) > above. need alt+ left mouse click+drag to move things around. Hmm. I have just been using left-click-and-hold to drag icons horizontally or drag them into oblivion. > [...] that's not touch friendly which turned up > in linux much more recently than the shelf in e, bu solvable with a long-press I didn't think that any Linux worked with touch screen devices. I looked last year, as I was in the market for a new laptop, and I reckoned it would be 4–5 years before the hardware would be stable enough to write for it in an open source environment where you don't have commercial access to the APIs or privileged access to the specs. > the other is setting up of the gadgets. you have a list of them... Bryce is being renamed, apparently. That's probably good. It's called a dock or a toolbar usually. I would elide the difference between gadgets and applications. As far as the user is concerned, they are just "things" that execute which they want on the bryce, and they should be able to find them in the main menus together. Example: the clock should be in Menu > Applications > Accessories > Clock. You really don't need separate ways to add gadgets and applications to the bryce. For setup, each menu entry should allow right-click to bring up a menu of "Add to Bryce" and "Add to Desktop" (maybe also Remove as well, because swiping icons off the bryce to remove them is risky...one blurrrp in a background process suddenly ignoring all input, and your accidental movement can remove an icon without you noticing (see my rants _passim_ about why OS-initiated background processes must never cause user input to be ignored). There needs to be an obvious way to add third-party binaries to the bryce: those which are not "installed" in the normal way, like user scripts. Despite what you say, I think it's an excellent and largely usable interface method, and hugely preferable to shelf/ibar (I never actually understood which was which and why there were two things that you can't tell apart :-) ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Removing gadgets from desktop
On 21/08/18 03:30, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 00:02:33 +0100 Peter Flynn said: Two recent annoyances: 1. I accidentally clicked on the Luncher Grid in Add Widgets to Desktop so it's sitting in the middle of my screen and I can't get rid of it: none of the mouse buttons do anything meaningful and DEL doesn't delete it. How do I get rid of it? normally a right click would have a menu for the gadget and remove would be in there... Turns out Alt-rightclick brings up a menu don't use bryce. it has usability issues. It was recommended on this list and I've been using it for a year or so without problems :-) what you are talking about was an ibar gadget pre-configured in the shelf. No, when I install e, I get rid of the whole shelf/ibar thing, which is horribly confusing and massively hard and time-consuming to configure, and replace it with a bryce which works fine (except that I forget occasionally how to reconfigure it, but that's a usability problem inside my brain :-) a bryce is empty there s you have it. it needs stuff added. as i said - there are usability issues so i would not recommend using them until they are solved. i certainly have tried bryce and shouted at it, then deleted it. :) Interesting. What are the usability issues you have encountered? The only problem I had was on an old machine, possibly a timing error: if you try to re-position an icon by clicking and dragging, the surrounding icons don't move and redraw fast enough and e SIGSEVs and you need to hit F1 very quickly. Otherwise I just run my frequent applications, and right-click to get the + icon to add them. Is there a schedule to replace ibar/shelf with an amended bryce? It's basically a Mac dock where you can add icons and gadgets. It doesn't need any more complexity than that. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Removing gadgets from desktop
On 20/08/18 00:02, Peter Flynn wrote:> 1. I accidentally clicked on the Luncher Grid in Add Widgets to Desktop > so it's sitting in the middle of my screen and I can't get rid of it: > none of the mouse buttons do anything meaningful and DEL doesn't delete > it. How do I get rid of it? It disappeared when I rebooted. But... > 2. [...] How do I force an application icon to be added? ...now when I click Alt-rightmouse and pick Bryce > Gadgets, there is no row of icons to click on for the Luncher entry (that is, there is a bar marked Luncher, but nothing to click on; usually there's a little row of icons). They were the ones I accidentally added to the desktop, and now they've vanished from the widget menu. Is there a way to get them back? ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Size of characters
On 24/07/18 05:06, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:31:16 +0100 Peter Flynn said: > >> On 23/07/18 07:44, Pierre Couderc wrote: >>> I have many problems with "big" screens (in pixels 1920x1080). >>> Characters are very small. It is easy to change this in e itself >>> using "scaling". Right. But that setting does not persist into applications. > actually no. this is where users and many toolkits and apps get it totally > wrong. so you specify font size. what about icons and other elements then? They should stay the same size. This is where designers misunderstand the problem. People with this class of visual impairment don't want to scale *everything* just in order to read the text. The icons and other screen furniture are already big enough to see. They want to increase the size of the text to one they can read, and have all applications obey that size. There are of course other classes of impairment in which the use may need everything scaled, but it is incorrect to assume that this is true for all cases. > that is precisely why efl just uses a "scale" factor.[...] but this only > affects efl/e. That's the second half of the problem. If I make a system setting like this, I expect ALL applications to obey it, otherwise it does not achieve anything. > another way users/toolkits do this is "set dpi". you DO NOT SET dpi. dpi is a > property o the screen (and its current resolution). SETTING it to get > something to scale up is NOT right. Yes, this is the wrong solution. > this why there has to be a separate sizing factor other than messing with DPI, > thus why efl uses a scale factor like above that is separate to dpi or font > sizing, because really... "everyone is doing it wrong" (to be super simple > about it). Yep. > setting font size is wrong (for the purposes of "it's too small - i > need it bigger!"). What is the solution then? If I cannot read the text in thhe application, I must have a way to make it bigger ON ITS OWN. Scaling the whole window contents (like Ctrl+ in a browser) is NOT correct because that increases the size of the icons, images, and all the other stuff. +1 to all those blogs who provide a Text± adjustment! > also font size is tightly tied to the font itself. at the > same size different fonts can be vastly different in "visual size". True, but not "vastly" different except for display fonts. We're talking here about text fonts. The variation in cap height and x height wrt point size is clear, but the effect does not prevent font scaling from solving the problem of legibility. > well TBH, i doubt that would work because there are OTHER methods to solve > this, like: just lower your resolution (brute force but will solve the > problem), or use a magnifier tool (of which plenty exist). it's not nice > solutions, but then most solutions for those impaired with something aren't > wonderful - they get the job done mostly. The correct solution is to impose a rule that all apps must obey the current system default text font size. So if I install e and set my default font size to 22pt, all other applications must use that as their default for normal text (they can do anything they want with other kinds of text, although if they are written properly, other sizes will be proportionate to the base size). But this won't happen, for the reasons I gave before, unfortunately. > but don't take the above as a disagreement that it's wrong to not be nice to > those visually impaired who need "stuff to be bigger". the right solution IMHO > is as above, and it's what EFL does, and at least across efl it works very > well Yes, but it is not known by most applications. > it's just a single size. it's intended for exactly the use cases you want - > "make stuff bigger so i can see it" and you are asked to just select the thing > that looks best to you. as above - it works across e/efl because it's designed > to work this way. other toolkits imho are messier. gnome/gtk has a mix of "set > font size", set dpi and "hi dpi display" which originally only allowed for > integer scaling (2x, 3x, 4x etc.) as a wayland protocol. qt i think is dpi + > font size too (when i say dpi, i mean "fake the dpi"). But those settings are only for the window manager's own menu and widgets. They get ignored by all applications. The problem is architectural. Apple solved it decades ago by diktat, but that isn't possible or desirable in Linux. App authors have got to *want* to do the right thing: at the moment they are largely unaware of the problem. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Size of characters
On 23/07/18 07:44, Pierre Couderc wrote: > I have many problems with "big" screens (in pixels 1920x1080). > Characters are very small. It is easy to change this in e itself > using "scaling". > > But I have problems with many applications, vlc,thunderbird for > example. Maybe it is because I miss some freedesktop utility or > settings ? No, it's a permanent problem with Linux systems: there is no way to force individual applications to use a centrally-defined setting for sizes, colours, etc. This is a disaster for the visually-impaired. The developers (or their frameworks) understandably believe that it is *their* responsibility to dictate the font size (and a lot of other UI parameters). Unfortunately they have misunderstood: the better approach is to allow the USER to specify the font size globally, and have all applications respect it. Some apps do allow you to change font size; many do not; I don't know of any which look to see if there is a global setting they can follow. A frequent problem in usability tests is that the subject cannot see the material because the font size is too small and cannot be adjusted across all the applications uniformly: see https://www.nngroup.com/articles/let-users-control-font-size/ But until we get a legal challenge from the visually-impaired community under suitable legislation designed to enable them to use computers, this will not change. For some reason, developers believe that it's not their problem. e has a wonderful new-install-startup routine which lets you set the sizes of various things like windows and fonts (I can't remember if they can be set separately). It's a pity that other window managers hide this functionality or fail to provide it by default. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Moving between desktops
On 05/06/18 01:26, eric wrote: > On 06/03/2018 11:47 PM, Simon Lees wrote: >> >> >> On 04/06/18 06:35, Peter Flynn wrote: >>> On 03/06/18 00:32, eric wrote: >>> [...] >>>> In the enlightenment menus you can go to settings - settings panel - >>>> edge bindings and adjust the settings for left and right edges. >>> >>> Thank you...it's under Input, not where I would have looked at all. >>> >> >> This kinda makes sense if you think of edge bindings the same as >> keybindings Yes, it does. But I didn't think of moving the mouse horizontally to the next screen as a case of edge bindings. I thought edge bindings were about the edges of *windows*. But it would still be better for the user to have it *also* along with all the other settings for Number of Desktops etc. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Moving between desktops
On 03/06/18 04:54, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > [...] It's compounded by the >> fact that the pointer automatically goes to the centre of the new >> desktop instead of the edge where it entered, making it tedious to move >> back. > > ummm it should be going to the opposite edge not the center. so basically to > keep switching in that direction, you keep moving the mouse one whole screen > at > a time. I'll have to observe it more carefully. Right now if I slide my finger sideways on the glidepad, it does indeed stay close to the edge on the new desktop. But I have very often had the mouse jump to the center of whatever application window is open on the new desktop, which is very annoying. But I must find the circumstances which make this happen. > under settings -> input -> edge bindings. It was the Input which had eluded me: I expected it under Screen. Thanks very much. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Moving between desktops
On 03/06/18 00:32, eric wrote: [...] > In the enlightenment menus you can go to settings - settings panel - > edge bindings and adjust the settings for left and right edges. Thank you...it's under Input, not where I would have looked at all. > You cna > change the time delay or set to click on the edge to change. I prefer > to just delete those bindings as I always end up causing the desktop to > change to one I am not working on. I just wanted the time delay, so that's OK :-) ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] Moving between desktops
I have four desktops configured and I use Ctrl-Alt left/right to navigate between them. I can also do it by sliding the mouse off the right or left edge, but that's very rare for me. At the moment it's far too easy to accidentally go to the next desktop if the pointer hits the edge of the current one. It's compounded by the fact that the pointer automatically goes to the centre of the new desktop instead of the edge where it entered, making it tedious to move back. How can I make the delay time between desktops longer (much longer, maybe 500ms) when it's due to the mouse movement? Or perhaps make it the same value as the delay before raising a window, if you have auto-rais and focus-follows-mouse enabled. That would at least be consistent from a usability point of view. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update
On 22/04/18 14:26, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: [...] Everything is working fine. then explain the meson error you pasted. I already have, about three times. It was because I typed the wrong package name. id meson install? can you install it? Yes, once I retyped the apt command it insatlled perfectly. it still doesn't change the fact that you have a meson package that is uninstallable No, it's installed. for some reason related to the repo dataset you have. No, nothing to do with it. some of your dataset is broken. you can continue to pretend it's not even though you pasted the error yourself. i'm repeating myself. I think we'd better stop this; I'm wasting your time. then explain the error you yourself pasted. install meson. does it install? I have explained this already several times. Possibly not clearly. explain why dpkg itself says there are held packages? is it wrong? It was only wrong for that command. I think it may be a very trivial bug in apt or dpkg. and that package is broken. it is not needed to run enlightenment, but if you ever need to compile it it will be needed. We shall see. I wanted to do this just to see if meson worked (given that I had terrible problems with it a few years ago on another project). I had good success with compiling eft/enlightenment/terminology in a previous version that compiled perfectly on several platforms a couple of years ago; that used normal ./configure;make;make install so I am interested to see if meson offers anything better. at no point am i saying that it is needed now for enlightenment to run. No, that was never a question. i'm trying to help you by pointing out you have problems with your system there and this may lead to more issues in future. you seem to not want that help, even though your yourself saw the exact error and pasted it and now deny that any issues exist, so i may as well give up. I appreciate your concern and help. I just think you have misunderstood the position, possibly through my poor explanations. I'm happy to be proved wrong, though. then THAT is the problem. meson depends on a non-existent package. IFF that is the problem, then it's a problem for the Mint packagers. I'm not seriously concerned because I'm only doing this out of interest, having had problems with meson some years ago. i installed ubuntu in a vm a few weeks back to test efl stuff there and i installed meson and ninja-build because ninja-build *IS* ninja. the ninja pkg name was already taken in ubuntu at least for some other software that is not the ninja make/build tool. Aha. NOW some new information. I was unaware of that. Perhaps the Mint packagers mistook one for the other. Strange that there is no report of it, especially as Mint uses meson for their own builds, apparently. so i know at least on ubuntu ninja-build is the correct package dependency for meson. i am not sure about mint, but considering the closeness of their heritage i think that my assumption here would be right. Yes, that makes perfect sense. I did not have this extra information. and that is the ONLY thing i am talking about here. your meson package install failure. everything else you mention is not relevant. I never raised anything except the meson/ninja problem. I think some others did contribute other information though. Let's leave it rest until I am ready to experiment. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update
On 22/04/18 06:12, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: [...] our job is to provide the source code that gets compiled, so out instructions will be for that. :) the general instructions on our download page where the downloads are source at any rate. :) Yep. I used to rely on it in the days when I recompiled from scratch for each platform I used. But since Niko's .debs worked so well, I've been using them — until the trouble with the most recent ones. But since you gave me the fix to backtrack, I no longer need to compile anything, so I was just trying to see if meson was as broken as it was when I last looked at it. that doesn't matter. meson required ninja-build. you installed some unrelated ninja package that is going to consume some space but otherwise have no effect. But nothing was installed the first time: the original command failed for the reason given. Apt was doing its job correctly, just badly-worded. The second time it worked perfectly. the problem is meson + its dependencies in the package repos you use. that may mean mint is totally broken. it may mean repos you have added are broken as a result you end up with this. either way you have a broken package repo situation when it comes to meson. No, absolutely not. I cannot understand why you still think this. Everything is working fine. as above. ... the meson package in the distribution you use and/or its dependencies when taken as a whole in your distribution or your use of it including added or changed repository url's is broken. No, it's fine. I simply typed an additional unnecessary package and apt correctly refused to install it. yes they are. you posted the error yourself: The following packages have unmet dependencies: meson : Depends: ninja-build (>= 1.6) but it is not going to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. That was a result of my typing an additional unnecessary package name the first time. The error message is bogus. Nothing was installed, nothing was held. Apt merely thought there was because the command failed. that is an error for you. perhaps you have held back certain packages from updating that cause ninja-build not to update to a newer version etc. (as i said before that perhaps it's there but unable to install a new enough version). No, there are no hold-backs, previous versions, or anything of the sort. yes there is. see above. you yourself provided it. "unmet dependencies". No, that was just the result of my typing an additional unnecessary package name. ninja-build WAS REQUESTED. Yes, wrongly. I should not have typed that name. it was REQUESTED by the meson package. No, *I* requested it...wrongly. I don't know what you've done, but a little bit of investigating like installing ninja-build But there is no package ninja-build in this distro. Just a package ninja. I am assuming this package contained the functionality of ninja-build, whatever that may be, because the ninja package satisfied the requirements of meson. i'm trying to let you know you have a problem I appreciate that but I don't think that is the case. In any event it's moot. I am happy with the backtracking I did to recover terminology, so I have no desire to recompile anything. I *will* need meson for a completely unrelated project I am experimenting with, but that's a different question. P -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update
On 21/04/18 06:37, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: you didn't even have to install meson if it's already compiled binaries. meson is needed to compile terminology and enlightenment Right. I was installing meson because the web site said so. But it turned out (thanks to your help) that I don't need to compile terminology and enlightenment because I was able to back-track over the dud-package problem. on the cmdline or not should make no difference. a package (meson) needs to be installed. ninja-build is a dependency of meson Right. But the web site said just "ninja" so I typed ninja. Not ninja-build. and it cannot install that/ something is seriously wrong with the package repository/ies you are using No. I obviously haven't explained this clearly enough: 1. I read web site at https://www.enlightenment.org/docs/distros/start 2. It says I need basic tools: git. autoconf (2.59 or better), automake (1.10 or better), autopoint, libtool, gettext, meson and ninja 3. I type (as in email of 18/04/18 20:58) apt install git autoconf automake autopoint libtool gettext meson ninja 4. apt says The following packages have unmet dependencies: meson : Depends: ninja-build (>= 1.6) but it is not going to be installed 5. Massimo said "there is no package named ninja, you should remove it from the apt command line." 6. I type apt install git autoconf automake autopoint libtool gettext meson 7. Works perfectly. It installs ninja-build as a dependency of meson. Nothing is broken in any repo; just the instructions refer to ninja instead of ninja-build (and it's not needed explicitly anyway because it gets included as a dependency of meson). in that it is broken with a package (meson) that is uninstallable because a dependency of it is unable to be installed (doesn't exist or is too old a version as it wanted >= 1.6). your problem lies in your repositories and those packages. No. I don't understand why you think the repo is broken. There is no evidence for this. But apt needs much better error reporting, because it fails to identify WHY the package could not be installed, and because it used the name of a package which was not requested (ninja-build instead of ninja). But perhaps it doesn't have that information. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update
On 20/04/18 07:00, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: [...] > umm but: > > meson : Depends: ninja-build (>= 1.6) but it is not going to be installed > > that says that there should be a ninja-build package. the meson package you > are > installing depends on it... where is that meson package coming from? from > mint? > or is it the extra repo (niko's) you added above? No, that just has efl, enlightenment, and terminology. Maybe Mint's meson did call it ninja-build, it has long scrolled off the console. The point was, I didn't have to mention it; installing meson included it automatically as a dependency, whereas mentioning it explicitly caused an error, which I though was weird. > well niko's repo is that.. a non-distro repo custom filled with specific pkgs > that dont come from the distro. :) Yes, that's why I mentioned it. > well either way the output you had above with meson and ninja-build errors > says > that some meson package somewhere apt is trying to install requires > ninja-build and its having trouble getting ninja-build installed. No, exactly the opposite. Installing meson automatically included ninja (-build or not, I can't remember now) as a dependency. It only gave an error if I tried to include the package name on the command line. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update
On 19/04/18 10:40, maderios wrote: > On 04/18/2018 09:32 PM, Peter Flynn wrote: >> Sounds good. I've avoided Arch because last time I tried it, it broke >> Emacs, and was several versions behind on a few key (for me) packages. >> But if that's changed I should look at it again. >> > Hi > 'Last time' you used Arch. When, how many years ago? I use Arch and > Emacs every day, it works fine. This was a specific instance: trying to install Linux on a Dell XPS-15, and everything except Mint screwed up what I now believe to be the hardware recognition, resulting in Emacs violently complaining about blink-cursor-start and mouse-button-5 clicks even though my fingers were off the machine. blogs.silmaril.ie passim if you're feeling bored. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update
On 19/04/18 03:37, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: [...] > anyone can get write access. sign up an account there. it's a wiki. I'm not a developer, just an end user, so I don't think I would be in any remote way qualified to add anything myself. > but please note that that page is GENERIC. it doesn't cover any special > distro. My error: I assumed that most distros would use the same names. > we cant have one generic page magically just work on every distro. No indeed, not as things stand. One page each for the distros I test might be achievable. > if you looked top-right there is a list of distro specific install pages with > more specialist instructions per distro. again - a wiki. can be updated by > users of that distro as it changes over time. Right. I missed that completely > did you try install ninja-build on its own and see what version it was? No, I just omitted it from the list, and it got included as a dependency on meson, so it all installed. Haven't had time to do anything with it yet though. > perhaps its too old? did you customize the pkg repo urls No, everything is stock. The only addition was Niko's repo for E and Terminology, now removed. > perhaps mint is just broken if it can't install > its own pkgs dependencies if everything you have is stock... No, just the naming. Mint has no such animal as ninja-build, apparently, just plain ninja, and it gets installed along with meson. > but that'd be a > pretty horrible break there, so my suspects are custom pkg repos of your own > breaking up dependencies somehow... It would be pretty bad, but I don't do custom pkg repos, fortunately. If what I need can't be provided from stock, I switch Linux distro to one that can (why I ditched Xubuntu for Mint). Like I said: I'm an end user — I don't have the freedom to experiment at the moment; the best I can do right now is to donate to the support of a distro. When I retire things will be different, I hope — time to experiment and contribute :-) ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update
On 18/04/18 21:19, Massimo Maiurana wrote: [...] > On debian buster (testing) there is no package named ninja, you should > remove it from the apt command line. Meson should carry out ninja-build > automatically as it's one of its dependencies. Interesting, so it does. Perhaps someone with write-access to https://www.enlightenment.org/docs/distros/start could note "meson (includes ninja)" instead of "meson and ninja". However, attempting to install the dependencies mentioned lower down that page hits a snag: # apt install gcc make check libpam freetype libpng libjpeg zlib libdbus luajit libx11 libxcursor libxrender libxrandr libxfixes libxdamage libxcomposite libxss libxp libxext libxinerama libxkbfile libxtst libxcb libxcb-shape libxcb-keysyms1 libpulse libsndfile libudev libblkid libmount libgstreamer vlc libtiff giflib curl openssl opengl libspectre poppler librsvg libraw libxine bullet Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done E: Unable to locate package libpam E: Unable to locate package freetype E: Unable to locate package libpng E: Unable to locate package libjpeg E: Unable to locate package zlib E: Unable to locate package libdbus E: Unable to locate package libx11 E: Unable to locate package libxcursor E: Unable to locate package libxrender E: Unable to locate package libxrandr E: Unable to locate package libxfixes E: Unable to locate package libxdamage E: Unable to locate package libxcomposite E: Unable to locate package libxss E: Unable to locate package libxp E: Unable to locate package libxext E: Unable to locate package libxinerama E: Unable to locate package libxkbfile E: Unable to locate package libxtst E: Unable to locate package libxcb E: Unable to locate package libxcb-shape E: Unable to locate package libpulse E: Unable to locate package libsndfile E: Unable to locate package libudev E: Unable to locate package libblkid E: Unable to locate package libmount E: Unable to locate package libgstreamer E: Unable to locate package libtiff E: Unable to locate package giflib E: Unable to locate package opengl E: Unable to locate package libspectre E: Unable to locate package poppler E: Unable to locate package librsvg E: Unable to locate package libraw E: Unable to locate package libxine E: Unable to locate package bullet # This is Mint...something wrong somewhere. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update
On 18/04/18 20:32, Peter Flynn wrote: > On 18/04/18 09:56, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: >> On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 09:11:33 +0100 Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said: >>> I know meson is terribly fashionable these days, but I have tried >>> to get it to work on at least five Linux distros and it's never >>> worked properly -- always been missing some unfindable component. >> >> ummm maybe its just the distros you tried that don't stay up to date >> that easily? > > Is Meson that neglected in some places? I had sort of assumed it would > be under heavy support as it's become so popular. > > So far I have tried Ubuntu, RedHat, CentOS, Bodhi, and raw Debian. Just tried Mint: > pentacle ~ # apt install git autoconf automake autopoint libtool gettext > meson ninja > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > autoconf is already the newest version (2.69-9). > automake is already the newest version (1:1.15-4ubuntu1). > autopoint is already the newest version (0.19.7-2ubuntu3). > gettext is already the newest version (0.19.7-2ubuntu3). > libtool is already the newest version (2.4.6-0.1). > git is already the newest version (1:2.7.4-0ubuntu1.3). > Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have > requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable > distribution that some required packages have not yet been created > or been moved out of Incoming. > The following information may help to resolve the situation: > > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > meson : Depends: ninja-build (>= 1.6) but it is not going to be installed > E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. > pentacle ~ # Unfortunately, apt doesn't say *why* it won't install ninja-build, so I have no way of knowing how the problem can be fixed. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update
On 18/04/18 09:56, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 09:11:33 +0100 Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said: >> I know meson is terribly fashionable these days, but I have tried >> to get it to work on at least five Linux distros and it's never >> worked properly -- always been missing some unfindable component. > > ummm maybe its just the distros you tried that don't stay up to date > that easily? Is Meson that neglected in some places? I had sort of assumed it would be under heavy support as it's become so popular. So far I have tried Ubuntu, RedHat, CentOS, Bodhi, and raw Debian. All failed because some specific library was not available in the version required (different library for each distro), or because build instructions for the project I was working on expected an environment that didn't exist (presumably the original developer's environment). > at last arch has been smooth sailing on this, but it's a rolling > distro so it stays relatively up to date :) Sounds good. I've avoided Arch because last time I tried it, it broke Emacs, and was several versions behind on a few key (for me) packages. But if that's changed I should look at it again. Thanks for the tips. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update
Yes, it looks like a build fail. Thanks, Carsten, for suggesting dpkg --purge. I had used apt --purge but it seems that doesn't actually purge everything. Then reinstalling it worked (with a waning) so now it's back and on hold. I know meson is terrribly fashionable these days, but I have tried to get it to work on at least five Linux distros and it's never worked properly -- always been missing some unfindable component. ///Peter On 18 April 2018 03:27:53 Dave <d...@flex.com.au> wrote: Weird. I've downloaded and unpacked that deb file. It just contains the /usr/share/doc/terminology data. No binaries. I'm guessing whoever created it has an automated system for building packages, and it's failing on binary compilation. Your old deb files are located in /var/cache/apt/archives . You can install the previous terminology version from there via dpkg, or download the old version from the repository. Then you can put the package on "hold" by running "echo terminology hold | dpkg --set-selections". That'll prevent it from being automatically upgraded. Otherwise, you could always compile the latest terminology yourself. It's not too hard. Though there is an annoying focus bug present in the latest version, which you may want to avoid until a point release is done. Cheers, dave.k In the year 2018, of the month of April, on the 17th day, Peter Flynn wrote: Sorry, this failed to send earlier. On 17/04/18 12:12, Peter Flynn wrote: [...]> 1 not fully installed or removed. After this operation, 0 B of additional disk space will be used. E: Internal Error, No file name for terminology:amd64 Does anyone know where I can get it in a .deb form that won't vanish at an update I did some digging into http://ppa.launchpad.net/niko2040/e19/ubuntu/pool/main/t/terminology/ and found that the two most recent .debs are only 11Kb, which must surely be an error. terminology_1.2.0-0artful0_amd64.deb2018-04-15 19:205.7M terminology_1.2.0-0bionic0_amd64.deb2018-04-15 19:525.7M terminology_1.2.0-0trusty4_amd64.deb2018-04-15 20:0611K terminology_1.2.0-0xenial3_amd64.deb2018-04-15 20:0611K I've sent Niko an email via launchpad, but does anyone else have a solution? P -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update
Sorry, this failed to send earlier. On 17/04/18 12:12, Peter Flynn wrote: [...]> 1 not fully installed or removed. > After this operation, 0 B of additional disk space will be used. > E: Internal Error, No file name for terminology:amd64 > > Does anyone know where I can get it in a .deb form that won't vanish > at an update I did some digging into http://ppa.launchpad.net/niko2040/e19/ubuntu/pool/main/t/terminology/ and found that the two most recent .debs are only 11Kb, which must surely be an error. terminology_1.2.0-0artful0_amd64.deb2018-04-15 19:205.7M terminology_1.2.0-0bionic0_amd64.deb2018-04-15 19:525.7M terminology_1.2.0-0trusty4_amd64.deb2018-04-15 20:0611K terminology_1.2.0-0xenial3_amd64.deb2018-04-15 20:0611K I've sent Niko an email via launchpad, but does anyone else have a solution? P -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Terminology deleted by update
On 17/04/18 14:59, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 12:12:24 +0100 Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said: > [...] >> Does anyone know where I can get it in a .deb form that won't vanish at >> an update? > > perhaps remove the pkgs fully (dpkg --purge it) before re-installing? Good point, but as I added, the repo seems to have bogus .debs (only 11Kb). On another machine running Mint 18 I have terminology_1.1.1-0xenial1_amd64.deb so I have copied that to a safe place where I can try again tomorrow. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] Terminology deleted by update
I recently installed Mint 18 on a desktop system, and added e and terminology like this: sudo add-apt-repository -y ppa:niko2040/e19 sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install enlightenment terminology All working nicely. Then this morning I ran my weekly update: peter@oimelc:~/$ sudo apt update [sudo] password for peter: Hit:1 http://ppa.launchpad.net/gezakovacs/ppa/ubuntu xenial InRelease Hit:2 http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu xenial InRelease Hit:3 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial InRelease Get:4 http://ppa.launchpad.net/niko2040/e19/ubuntu xenial InRelease ...all normal. peter@oimelc:~/$ sudo apt upgrade Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Calculating upgrade... Done The following NEW packages will be installed: libdrm-common libllvm5.0 libqmi-glib5 The following packages will be upgraded: apparmor apport apt apt-transport-https apt-utils apt-xapian-index [snip lots and lots of packages] systemd-sysv terminology timeshift transmission-common After this operation, 87.4 MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y Get:1 http://ppa.launchpad.net/niko2040/e19/ubuntu xenial/main amd64 terminology amd64 1.2.0-0xenial3 [11.0 kB] Get:2 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-updates/main amd64 bsdutils amd64 1:2.27.1-6ubuntu3.4 [51.5 kB] [...] So off it went and updated everything just fine...EXCEPT at the end: dpkg: error processing package terminology (--configure): subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 2 Errors were encountered while processing: terminology E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) Terminology has disappeared from my menus and from /usr/bin so it has vanished. I tried to get it back with: $ sudo apt-get --reinstall install terminology Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 reinstalled, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. 1 not fully installed or removed. After this operation, 0 B of additional disk space will be used. E: Internal Error, No file name for terminology:amd64 Does anyone know where I can get it in a .deb form that won't vanish at an update? ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] xdg-bs
On 07/03/18 01:07, Simon Lees wrote: [...] > Thanks as the maintainer of xdg-utils in a major distro i'll have a look > at this and get it fixed, i've contributed most of the xdg-utils code > for enlightenment, the bug is now tracked here > https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1084236 so I remember to > go fix it. Thanks for the thought, but I think you may need to leave it as it is. I discussed this with colleagues and they all think I'm completely wrong :-) Millenials don't use MUAs so there's no point in xdg-email opening one: they all use web-based email so that should be the default. None of them had ever heard of Enlightenment :-) ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] xdg-bs
> On Monday 27 Mar 2017 20:47:29 Peter Flynn wrote:
>> On 03/27/2017 07:56 PM, Mick wrote:
>>> On Monday 27 Mar 2017 19:39:21 Peter Flynn wrote:
>>>> On 27/03/17 00:47, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 16:55:45 -0400 Christopher Barry
>>>>>
>>>>>> Okay, this is annoying...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> claws-mail uses xdg-open to decide what app to use when
>>>>>> opening files (rather than 'alternatives', which is the
>>>>>> standard Debian way to do this), so clicking on a link in
>>>>>> email always opens Chromium rather than Firefox which is my
>>>>>> system default browser. When I try to see/change it in
>>>>>> Enlightenment, I get the following.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> $ xdg-settings get default-web-browser
>>>>>> xdg-settings: unknown desktop environment
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any ideas on how to change this setting to point to Firefox?
>>>>>
>>>>> settings -> apps -> default applications -> browser
>>>>
>>>> And does that *really* change xdg settings?
>>>>
>>>> The *big* problem for me is that when I click on a mailto:
>>>> link in chromium-browser, it just opens another browser window,
>>>> or sometimes pops up a window saying it wants to run some
>>>> unspecified program recommended by xdg, which never does
>>>> anything. If anyone knows how to force chromium-browser to
>>>> open Thunderbird, I'd be grateful.>>>
>>> Have you tried setting something in Handlers to see if it takes?
>>> https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/114662?visit_id=0-636262376794060954-3121866498=ib_protocol_handler=2
>>>
>> Unfortunately that's for requesting *web* services to respond to
>> protocol calls (eg make mailto: open Hotmail). It's set by
>> default, but it doesn't do anything that I can see for *programs*
>> (eg Tbird).
>
> Yes, I noticed the same just now. I cannot add anything to it ...
> I suspect Chromium/Chrome use xdg-open, so:
> 'xdg-mime query default message/rfc822'
> should show your default application for e.g. viewing messages.
Hah. Fixed.
Nothing to do with handlers, nothing to do with MIME types.
Everything to do with xdg and its default action, which is to open a
*browser* instead of a *mailer* for mailto: actions. This is entirely
wrong, and I am shocked that the xdg project would make such an
elementary error. It also happens because xdg doesn't know about e.
Solution: edit /usr/bin/xdg-email and at the bottom, inside the case
command, add
enlightenment)
open_gnome "${mailto}"
;;
before the generic entry. Save and exit.
///Peter
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Re: [e-users] Replicating e bryce/luncher
On 05/03/18 23:28, Simon Lees wrote:> On 06/03/18 06:57, Peter Flynn wrote: >> Now that my configuration has settled down and I have migrated all my >> machines to Mint Cinnamon with Enlightenment, I need a way to replicate >> the bryce/luncher setup from my laptop onto all the other machines. >> They're all running the exact same versions of everything. >> >> Is there a ready-made way to do this, like copying a config file? > > Not a simple way, you can take your config and decompile it with vieet > then use it as the basis to create a new profile then load that profile > into all your computers. That's a pity. I don't want a new profile: I basically want the identical profile on each system. As they are all running an identical OS with identical applications I had hoped that the data for the settings would be transferable. > I basically do that with openSUSE you might be > able to get some ideas here, > https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/X11:Enlightenment:Factory/enlightenment-profiles-openSUSE Thank you, I'll have a look. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] Replicating e bryce/luncher
Now that my configuration has settled down and I have migrated all my machines to Mint Cinnamon with Enlightenment, I need a way to replicate the bryce/luncher setup from my laptop onto all the other machines. They're all running the exact same versions of everything. Is there a ready-made way to do this, like copying a config file? ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Persistent images in Desktop
On 08/02/18 10:42, Mick wrote: > Have you logged out/in, or Ctrl+Alt+End to see if the dekstop content is > refreshed? Yes, my first reaction was to log out and back in. No change. Then reboot. No change. On 08/02/18 11:53, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > efm still thinks they are there. efm didn't get the "file deleted" > message from inotify? this is linux? Yes, Linux. > is there something about your filesystem or kernel that may cause > linux to not deliver such notifications? No, it's stock Ubuntu 16.04.3 with e compiled from source using the build_enlight.sh script. > if you just right click on any icon and select "refresh view" it'll > re-load the files in the dir from scratch... I'm away from the machine at the moment but I'll do that tomorrow. > efm doesnt have any such exotic caching system for files.. its raw > just reading what is there. i have mulled the idea of having such an > exotic system though... :) Oh dear :-) ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] Persistent images in Desktop
I used the default location (~/Desktop) to save some screenshots (by pressing PrtScr). Once I had edited and used them, I deleted them, but their icons are still on my desktop even though they are no longer in ~/Desktop. See screenshot at http://oimelc.ucc.ie/desktop-screenshot.jpg Right-click and delete gets the confirmation query, and if I click Delete, I get the error message "An error occurred while performing an operation. Cannot lstat '/home/peter/Desktop/shot-2018-01-18_10-00-20.jpg': No such file or directory" Presumably they've been cached somewhere. 'locate' returns nothing, nor does 'find'. Anyone know where they are? ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Projector weirdness
On 17/01/18 04:47, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 20:23:02 + Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said: This is (seemingly) not an Enlightenment-specific problem; it's just that I was running E when it happened. It appears to happen with XFCE and Cinnamon as well, but if anyone has a clue, please email me off-list. My Dell XPS 15 plugged into a classroom projector only displays the wallpaper background: no icons, no menus, no windows, no bryce, nothing, just the wallpaper. I've used this classroom and projector for years with a lot of machines, this is the first time with this laptop. Details at https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=147=261862 That is truly odd. E and XFCE are quite different beasts. E draws its wallpaper within the compositor using textures and OpenGL as part of redrawing the scene graph (Or maybe using the CPU and shm buffers). What is and is not drawn is controlled client-side (not in the Xserver at all). What you have is really odd. I thought so too. I've been plugging in laptops to overheads since they were invented, and while projectors are notorious for screwing up on resolution and aspect ratio (and in not detecting the computer), I've never seen one that didn't display what it was given. I can only conclude that somehow the XPS15 is feeding only part of the display down the wire. Are you sure the wallpaper is set by E? Yes, positive. I installed a completely different wallpaper in XFCE. you haven't run other gnome, xfce or other tools to set a background pixmap on the root window? E never sets one (it just sets bg color to black of the root window). I actually don't know or understand how stuff gets onto the display, and at my time of life there are other things to do :-) The forum indicates you have clone mode enabled which means E won't be rendering 2 screens of content, and only one. I'm not familiar with clone mode. E's randr (screen setup) stuff will just configure 2 outputs to point to the same region on the root window, and that's it. The Xserver should configure the scanouts/CRTC's to produce a display signal for those pixels for both outputs (LCD panel and VGA). If one output produces different content... The logical assumption is that one output is NOT pointing to the same region or memory. One idea might be that somehow by pure luck it's pointing to the texture memory for the bg pixmap and they just happen to line up perfectly... normally if this happened i'd expect it to point to random garbage in video memory. Interesting analysis, thank you. Does the mouse cursor appear at all on that screen? No, nothing but the wallpaper. When I get a chance to go back into that room again I will remove the wallpaper first, so that E goes back to its default black background. And find some time to try it on other projectors... ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] Projector weirdness
This is (seemingly) not an Enlightenment-specific problem; it's just that I was running E when it happened. It appears to happen with XFCE and Cinnamon as well, but if anyone has a clue, please email me off-list. My Dell XPS 15 plugged into a classroom projector only displays the wallpaper background: no icons, no menus, no windows, no bryce, nothing, just the wallpaper. I've used this classroom and projector for years with a lot of machines, this is the first time with this laptop. Details at https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=147=261862 ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Creating Enlightenment Gadgets
On 13/01/18 06:43, Carsten Haitzler wrote: [...] bryce (now gadget bar) is the same as shelf, For all practical (user) purposes it's identical, just slightly bigger icons and a more robust operating procedure. Plus the option for many more gadgets in the future. stephen is right. it's far more than just for launching apps. its a panel/bar/whatever thing for a bunch of "desktop control gadgets" that you'd commonly use to control your desktop environment (or see its status). I guess we all work in different ways. Apart from checking the battery level or the I/O, I would rarely use the gadgets. But I launch applications a lot. P -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Creating Enlightenment Gadgets
On 12/01/18 23:48, Stephen Houston wrote: Can you file a ticket on phab.enlightenment.org and tag it enlightenment-gadgets with this exact info? [...] I'll reboot later on just in case it's this Dell touchpad. I rebooted and it's fine. I don't trust Dell hardware any more. P -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Creating Enlightenment Gadgets
On 12/01/18 22:16, Stephen Houston wrote: I don't think you get it - luncher is the application launcher - what was bryce and is now gadget bar is what holds the luncher (which is a gadget as well as any of your other gadgets - wireless, pager, temperature, cpumonitor, netstatus, etc.., etc.., etc...) so gadget bar makes sense. Yes, yes...technically. In the same sense that an internal combustion engine is a device for turning fuel into motion. But that's not why people buy cars — they buy cars to get from A to B. I suspect its primary use is not going to be for using gadgets, fun though it is. Its primary use is going to be for launching apps. Unless people prefer to host all their launchers on their desktop background, I guess. Do people still do that? (You can see how sheltered a life I lead :-) NM works with the wireless gadget so no need to switch to connman. But the wireless gadget I mistakenly put four copies on onto my desktop the other day explicitly said "Connman not installed". Bryce was a joke we made -- nothing more to tell. Aha. https://git.enlightenment.org/enlightenment/gadgets/wireless.git/ suports networkmanager (NM) and connman so whatever you have will work. Cool. Right now, though, there's a problem with autohide, which puzzles me. It was working fine, but suddenly it's stopped lowering itself after launching an app. Now it won't lower itself after moving the pointer over the 1px protrusion. It autoraises and won't go back down. I can make it go down by using Alt right click on the up-arrow — I don't need to click on any of the menu entries, just Alt and right-click and wait half a second, and it goes down. Also, if I Alt right click and pick Bryce (and it autohides) then I pick Gadgets (to add the netstatus gadget), it won't autoraise when I try to drag the gadget down from the selection menu onto the bryce. In fact, while the selection menu is visible, the bryce won't autoraise at all. So right now I can't get any gadgets onto it. I'll reboot later on just in case it's this Dell touchpad. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Creating Enlightenment Gadgets
On 12/01/18 21:32, Stephen Houston wrote: Glad to hear it -- The effect is there, just not as gaudy as you said. though it definitely last long enough for me to see the icon explode - it doesn't quite pulse the way the ibar did -- It's a somewhat simpler/smoother effect. I know different people will have different tastes with it and that effect is always themable. Yep, it's a personal preference thing, although a way to slow it down on a fast machine would be nice. Actually I was thinking of the marketing aspect (selling the Linux/E concept to non-users)...E is probably as close to a Mac's basic launch interface as you can get in Linux: I have had Mac users sit down at my desktop system and use it immediately, working on intuition. They get confused because E (rightly) does not implement the detached menu for applications, because that is a horrible usability error (possibly Tog?) I just like people looking at Linux/E and saying "Oh, cool, I can do that" (shades of Lex in _Jurassic Park_) It is indeed meant to be luncher. Pun - Luncher! Satisfy your app bar appetite! Hmm :-) A lunch bar... I don't know why we bother with app icons, just use food emojis... To the user you aren't going to see a lot of differences between the two systems. There are obvious ones like the menu handling and resizing/moving/etc... that are different but overall they accomplish the same thing. Oh btw. Bryce was renamed to "Gadget bar" in git today :) Umm. I don't think that's a good choice: its principal task is going to be for launching apps, not gadgets, so I think Gadget Bar is misleading. Lunch Bar is much tastier :-) You still haven't said who Bryce was. I'm curious. It's an uncommon name these days but very ancient (goes back well before the Romans). The backend is where they are really different and show improvement and make it a lot easier for developers to write gadgets which means hopefully in the near future you will see a lot more gadgets available. I need to see if Connman is worth using to replace NM first. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Temperature gadget
On 12/01/18 21:39, Massimo Maiurana wrote: That'd would be great, thanks. Seeing a percentage as temperature value is counterintuitive to me :) Well, °C *is* a percentage, if you restrict it to the freezing—boiling range :-) P -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Temperature gadget
On 12/01/18 21:22, Stephen Houston wrote: the percentage is calculated in the rage you set. You set a low temperature and you set a high temperature. 30 celsius and 80 celsius is default so what percent is 34 between 30 and 80? 8%. This is the processor temperature, right? Or the ambient temperaure around the motherboard? 30°C is a hot summer day; 80°C is too close to boiling for comfort. My house goes down to about 10°C when the heating is off, less on a winter's night. This is Ireland, so below freezing is very rare. By the same token, anything over 35°C is a heatwave and people just lie around drinking cold beer (kidding :-) ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Creating Enlightenment Gadgets
On 11/01/18 22:14, Stephen Houston wrote: A bryce has a luncher which is where application icons sit. Found it. It actually offered it as a gadget. Is that meant to be launcher or luncher? the gadgets available for your shelf are not the same as gadgets available for bryce. But there is a considerable degree of overlap, of course. If you want the bryce on bottom, you will have to remove your shelf from the bottom and put a bryce there. All the functionality of shelves plus the contents that shelves allow exist with bryce and gadgets. That's what I deduced, so I deleted the shelf and moved my test bryce down to the bottom. Basically it's exactly the same thing, re-implemented, and much clearer, although I miss the slow exploder launch of applications: it looks as if it's trying to do the same, but it's so fast you could blink and miss it. I also like the blue bar under the running applications (the dot of the shelf was too small). ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Temperature gadget
On 12/01/18 12:02, Massimo Maiurana wrote: Reading the thread about gadgets I decided to try using a bryce in place of a shelf. Nice :) I see that the thermal gadget doesn't display the temperature value and I don't know why, maybe I'm missing something. Clicking in the gadget it shows a bar saying "4%", not an actual temperature value. The temperature gadget placed in a shelf shows instead "34°" when I hover it, which is definitely a correct value. I have just done exactly the same, and it shows 34°C which is claims is 8% (of something, I wot not what). ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Creating Enlightenment Gadgets
On 11/01/18 21:39, Stephen Houston wrote: https://git.enlightenment.org/enlightenment/gadgets/wireless.git/ You can get it here. However, this is a new gadget so it uses the new scheme which you have previously mentioned you are not interested in. Only because it wasn't clear that it offered any advantage. After your explanation it looks much more hopeful, thanks. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Creating Enlightenment Gadgets
On 11/01/18 21:37, Stephen Houston wrote: Why would you still be holding down your trackpad after alt+right click? Good point...but I had assumed that after clicking, I would need to move the pointer to the place where I could click on Remove, which would mean keeping it pressed while I moved it — not forgetting that at this stage I hadn't yet seen what would appear, so I didn't know what to expect. That's not how alt+rclick has ever worked, not even on the windows which is what this behavior mimics (which keeps the design theory you are speaking of that all things should work the same intact). Then that's just my ignorance. I haven't ever had to use Windows beyond the trivial, so I really don't know how it operates. Once you've clicked and the menu is there, obviously you can let go The problem was that the menu *wasn't* there. It SIGSEGV'd. Perhaps don't haste to call the work of others thoughtless without asking first. This is EXACTLY the behavior of every right click menu in enlightenmntt including that which manipulates windows. There is no design discrepancy. No one is trying too hard. I apologise. I was frustrated by not being able to get rid of the exclamation marks, and right-click doesn't bring up a menu as it does most other places. The need for Alt seems to me to be redundant: it would never have occurred to me in a million years to use Alt with right-click to get the menu. If there is a crash, please report it by filing a ticket on phab rather than making accusatory comments about said software. I don't accuse any software for having bugs — I've written far too much of it in my life to do that. I merely commented on the SIGSEGV and how it was recoverable (one of E's really strong points). Perhaps there was a simple bug that was a mistake and is easily repaired. It used to happen a lot in e17 under Xubuntu but it almost always recovered. But it was random and not replicable, so there was no point in filing a bug report. This was the first time this version of E has done it. You can choose to live without gadgets and bryce, but they are here to stay and the shelves and their contents are going away, so its not even remotely fair to compare the two and say they have different designs and coexist poorly. I don't think I did. Perhaps I worded it badly. They aren't meant to coexist. The former is a replacement for the latter. OK, thanks. That wasn't clear to me. Presumably Bryce offers the same facilities (application icons you can click on). Again gadgets are not added to the shelf. Out of curiosity, how did the existing built-in ones get there? There *is* a menu: right-click on (eg) clock, and pick Shelf > Contents and you get a menu of things you can add to the shelf. Perhaps those objects aren't called Gadgets. You add them to the bryce. The bryce is a shelf replacement. That sounds fine. I've no problems replacing one with the other so long as they do the same thing or better. Left click on the desktop, and click add bryce and that will bring up something resembling your "shelf". No quotes needed...it *is* a shelf. It identifies itself as one. Alt right click it and hit add gadgets. You are obviously welcome to use whatever features or software e has to offer and best of luck to you. Is it possible to add application icons to a bryce, or is it for gadgets only? The existing shelf has something called an iBar, which is where application icons sit. Thanks for your help. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Creating Enlightenment Gadgets
On 11/01/18 00:06, Stephen Houston wrote: If you aren't using connman, I'm not, mainly because NM is working perfectly, and I'm not aware of the reasons why I might want to change. Is connman better or faster? I know it was unusable when I first started using E many years ago, because it didn't support 802.1x and WPA2, but I assume it does so now. I know that when I tried, it wiped out NM and corrupted things so that I couldn't reinstall NM and get rid of Connman — I had to reinstall the OS. You will understand my reluctance to go through that again. you'll want to use the wireless gadget it enlightenment/gadgets/wireless.git as it supports network manager as well as connman. That sounds very useful. Where do I get this? ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Creating Enlightenment Gadgets
On 11/01/18 00:05, Stephen Houston wrote: Alt+right click lets you remove them. I'm sure it's meant to. The first time I did it, there was indeed a little "Remove" button, but as both my hands were occupied (one holding the Alt key, the other holding down the right-hand corner of the touchpad), I didn't have a third hand to move the cursor and click on it before it vanished forever. This is a peculiarly thoughtless piece of interaction design. Now when I try Alt right-click, I get a SIGSEGV and the old white console-style panel telling me this is very bad indeed but I can click on F1 to recover...which works, but Alt right-click on the exclamation marks now just creates a duplicate draggable question mark. This is not very good. Someone is trying a bit too hard to be subtle about hiding how the interface works. OK, so it's E, and you expect the unexpected (which is why I like it), but I think I'll live without gadgets until someone comes up with a standard menu-driven way to add and remove them. As a usability principle of design consistency, the method used to add and remove stuff *anywhere* should be the same, regardless of what it is you are adding and removing. Having a different method for each type of object is fun and entertaining for a while, but not really useful. It turns out that the actual technique is Alt right-tap-and-release on the touchpad. Your fingers are then free to use the left-click to target the Remove button. I don't usually have to experiment that much to find out how to make it work :-) OK...now I know how to remove them...how would I add gadgets to the shelf at the bottom where they belong; where all the other ones are (clock, battery, temp, screen brightness, keyboard languauge, etc)? Bryce is the equivalent of a shelf. Add A Bryce then alt+right click it to add gadgets to it. Bryce and new gadgets work like windows. Alt + mouse actions handle menus, resizing, moving, etc... the same way they would windows. Thank you very much. I think I'll pass on Bryce. It sounds like a refinement I can happily do without, and takes up valuable space at the top or at the sides of my screen. Just curious, who was he? ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Creating Enlightenment Gadgets
On 10/01/18 22:16, Stephen Houston wrote: They are designed for the new gadget system that is the replacement for shelves and contents. Left click on the desktop, Add Gadgets to Desktop or Add Bryce. That's where they are hiding. Aha, thanks. Can I add gadgets to the Shelf not the desktop? My sticky touchpad has left three giant white exclamation marks on the desktop. How do I get rid of them? — neither right-click nor left-click does anything meaningful. They mention Connman, which I'm not using. There doesn't seem to be any "Remove gadgets from desktop". Who is Bryce? ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Creating Enlightenment Gadgets
On 10/01/18 20:51, Stephen Houston wrote: The wireless gadget will tell you which network you are connect to and signal strength when you hover on it. The netstatus gadget will give you realtime network throughput Aha. Thank you. Where do I find these? If I right-click on an existing gadget (eg the clock), and pick Shelf and Contents, there is nothing about wireless or netstatus in the list. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Creating Enlightenment Gadgets
On 10/01/18 20:38, Stephen Houston wrote: Hello, I would like to point everyone to a new wiki page we have that details developing gadgets for Enlightenment using the sandbox method. https://www.enlightenment.org/develop/e/sandbox_gadgets Feel free to use the guide to create cool new gadgets for E and make sure you contribute back feedback about the guide so we can improve it as needed. Sounds great, thanks. What I really miss is something to show the name of the current network connection, with I/O telltales. I'm often in marginal connectivity areas with my laptop, so having something that says precisely what I'm connected to and how the traffic is flowing, would be important. But maybe one already exists — no point in reinventing the wheel. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Finding the cursor
On 19/12/17 01:19, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 19:54:39 + Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said: Is there a configuration option in E to let the (say) Ctrl key flash the cursor so you can find it on a laptop screen? And I can't find the configuration option to make the cursor/pointer BIG settings -> input -> mouse Excellent, thank you. Is it still impossible to make applications honour the cursor/pointer size? apps set their own pointers often/mostly and thus it's up to them. I thought it might be. What a pity. in many cases changing the "xcursor theme properties" might work here. but e doesn't touch that. I'll have a look, thank you. Strange that one of the most important accessibility vectors can be deliberately broken by an end-user application being able to make itself unusable by end users. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] Finding the cursor
Is there a configuration option in E to let the (say) Ctrl key flash the cursor so you can find it on a laptop screen? And I can't find the configuration option to make the cursor/pointer BIG Is it still impossible to make applications honour the cursor/pointer size? ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] E on Bodhi and Mint (was: Re: New applications -- menu/ibar entries
On 18/12/17 19:12, Stephen Houston wrote: The wireless gadget shows connection strength. The netstatus gadget will show traffic. Wireless gadget is available at enlightenment/gadgets/wireless.git and the netstatus gadget comes with E. Connman is always going to be a replacement for nm, right? Given that every distro I have seen comes with nm by default, and that users are already going to be connected before they go to install E. I'm just a little wary of connman breaking nm permanently, giving me no path back if connman turns out not to be usable. I don't see netstatus anywhere — does it also work with nm? P -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] E on Bodhi and Mint (was: Re: New applications -- menu/ibar entries
On 18/12/17 15:30, Stephen Houston wrote: The wireless gadget also supports network manager, at a basic level, now. It certainly does, or I wouldn't be writing this :-) I was just curious to know if connman offered anything more, like an indicator showing traffic or connection strength. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] E on Bodhi and Mint (was: Re: New applications -- menu/ibar entries
On 17/12/17 14:47, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 12:56:18 + Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said: [...] If I try to add ninja-build to the install command, it says The following packages have unmet dependencies: ninja-build : Conflicts: ninja but 0.1.3-2 is to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. well obviously ... you have a conflict. Even I can see that. But I don't know how to solve it. remove ninja then and install ninja-build... Removing ninja was what caused the problem in the first place. correct. it's no longer make. it's meson + ninja. OK, thanks. yes. only meson. i think you have issues at your end. see above. just fix your conflicts. I'm afraid I have work to do, so it'll have to stay broken for the moment. My only issue is with software that doesn't install, as I reported: >> Command "python setup.py egg_info" failed with error code 1 in >> /tmp/pip-build-ruyohi9b/meson/ a lot of projects have moved to meson: gtk+ glib mesa wayland weston I'm an end user of Linux, not a Linux developer. They must use whatever toolset is appropriate; those aren't projects I would ever need to compile myself. Problem fixed, however; after testing in a sacrificial Mint environment, the PPA solution worked just fine. One curiosity: E suggests I install connman for my network connections. Last time I looked at connman it was still being developed. Is it worth switching from whatever regular distros provide (nm, I assume)? ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] E on Bodhi and Mint (was: Re: New applications -- menu/ibar entries
On 17/12/17 14:10, Philippe Jean Guillaumie wrote: [...] Yes, this is the right way to get the latest meson version in Ubuntu. Works flawlessly in 16.04 LTS and 17.10. Alas not in Mint, apparently. To remove locally installed meson use: pip3 uninstall meson first (you don't need sudo). Then you'll be able to uninstall python3-pip and ninja-build if you want. Moot now. Read the docs (Ubuntu-start) and check out my script (batden's script=oneartful.sh): you will find answers to all your questions. I looked at the script and it looks very useful if you're running Ubuntu. I wasn't prepared to risk the fragility of the newly-installed system by editing the system name to allow sylvia. Bodhi is a really good distro, but Bodhi != Ubuntu and Moshka != E23. I wasn't expecting it to be Ubuntu, but I *was* expecting it to run E. I'm curious to know what they hoped to gain by forking it that way. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Error compiling EFL on Mint 18.3
On 17/12/17 00:58, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 22:51:50 + Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said: for now with efl you may want to add: --disable-cxx-bindings as our eo/eolian and binding work is in flux. OK, thanks. Makes sense. But it's not going to be useful if I can't build enlightenment itself the same way (or at least document it). ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] E on Bodhi and Mint (was: Re: New applications -- menu/ibar entries
On 17/12/17 00:56, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 22:50:36 + Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said: [...] 2. Build from source using Meson; never used Meson, and it won't install: Command "python setup.py egg_info" failed with error code 1 in /tmp/pip-build-ruyohi9b/meson/ You are using pip version 8.1.1, however version 9.0.1 is available. You should consider upgrading via the 'pip install --upgrade pip' command. just use the meson PACKAGES. apt-get install meson ninja Because https://www.enlightenment.org/docs/distros/ubuntu-start said to use sudo apt-get install ninja-build python3-pip I did sudo apt-get purge ninja-build python3-pip to get rid of the two packages I installed, but now if I try to apt-get install meson ninja I get The following packages have unmet dependencies: meson : Depends: ninja-build (>= 1.6) but it is not going to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. If I try to add ninja-build to the install command, it says The following packages have unmet dependencies: ninja-build : Conflicts: ninja but 0.1.3-2 is to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. None of them have any autoconf.sh so it's impossible to build them. well rage and terminology have autogen.sh .. autoGEN.sh. there never was an autoconf.sh. always autogen.sh. these 3 all moved to meson. My apologies...mistyping, I meant autogen.sh. Is it therefore impossible to build enlightenment with autogen.sh and make? > read README and > INSTALL files... they tell you what to do with meson. Not useful if I can't get meson installed. Does this mean that support for building will be only using meson in future? Is meson stable enough for this move? It's clearly not there yet. But I'm done with Bodhi. +++ :-) This is actually a pity, given their original philosophy. ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] Error compiling EFL on Mint 18.3
Using git clone https://git.enlightenment.org/core/efl.git
and then autoconf.sh and make, I am getting
CXX bin/eolian_cxx/bin_eolian_cxx_eolian_cxx-eolian_cxx.o
bin/eolian_cxx/eolian_cxx.cc: In function ‘bool
eolian_cxx::types_generate(const string&, const
eolian_cxx::options_type&, std::__cxx11::string&)’:
bin/eolian_cxx/eolian_cxx.cc:229:70: error: cannot convert ‘const char*’
to ‘const Eolian* {aka const _Eolian*}’ for argument ‘1’ to
‘Eina_Iterator* eolian_declarations_get_by_file(const Eolian*, const char*)’
Eina_Iterator *itr = eolian_declarations_get_by_file(fname.c_str());
^
Makefile:50039: recipe for target
'bin/eolian_cxx/bin_eolian_cxx_eolian_cxx-eolian_cxx.o' failed
make[4]: *** [bin/eolian_cxx/bin_eolian_cxx_eolian_cxx-eolian_cxx.o] Error 1
This goes way beyond my knowledge of C, unfortunately. As I said, it did
actually compile all the way through when I tried it under Bodhi, but
that bird has now flown.
$ lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: LinuxMint
Description:Linux Mint 18.3 Sylvia
Release:18.3
Codename: sylvia
$ uname -a
Linux pentacle 4.10.0-38-generic #42~16.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Tue Oct 10
16:32:20 UTC 2017 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
$ gcc -v
Using built-in specs.
COLLECT_GCC=gcc
COLLECT_LTO_WRAPPER=/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/5/lto-wrapper
Target: x86_64-linux-gnu
Configured with: ../src/configure -v --with-pkgversion='Ubuntu
5.4.0-6ubuntu1~16.04.5'
--with-bugurl=file:///usr/share/doc/gcc-5/README.Bugs
--enable-languages=c,ada,c++,java,go,d,fortran,objc,obj-c++
--prefix=/usr --program-suffix=-5 --enable-shared
--enable-linker-build-id --libexecdir=/usr/lib
--without-included-gettext --enable-threads=posix --libdir=/usr/lib
--enable-nls --with-sysroot=/ --enable-clocale=gnu
--enable-libstdcxx-debug --enable-libstdcxx-time=yes
--with-default-libstdcxx-abi=new --enable-gnu-unique-object
--disable-vtable-verify --enable-libmpx --enable-plugin
--with-system-zlib --disable-browser-plugin --enable-java-awt=gtk
--enable-gtk-cairo
--with-java-home=/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-gcj-5-amd64/jre
--enable-java-home
--with-jvm-root-dir=/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-gcj-5-amd64
--with-jvm-jar-dir=/usr/lib/jvm-exports/java-1.5.0-gcj-5-amd64
--with-arch-directory=amd64
--with-ecj-jar=/usr/share/java/eclipse-ecj.jar --enable-objc-gc
--enable-multiarch --disable-werror --with-arch-32=i686 --with-abi=m64
--with-multilib-list=m32,m64,mx32 --enable-multilib --with-tune=generic
--enable-checking=release --build=x86_64-linux-gnu
--host=x86_64-linux-gnu --target=x86_64-linux-gnu
Thread model: posix
gcc version 5.4.0 20160609 (Ubuntu 5.4.0-6ubuntu1~16.04.5)
///Peter
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[e-users] E on Bodhi and Mint (was: Re: New applications -- menu/ibar entries
[Sorry, I should have made this a new thread long ago.] On 29/11/17 00:27, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 20:49:55 +0000 Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said: > >> On 28/11/17 00:05, Carsten Haitzler wrote: >>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:38:30 + Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said: >> [snip] Does anyone have suggestions. I can't find a page describing how to replace Moksha with E22. >>> looks like it needs a newer efl install. apt-get -f install ? or remove efl, enlightenment and anything that depends on these from bodhi and maybe compile your own? >> Should I do all this from a Ctl-Alt-F1 console, rather than from the X session (which would be Moksha) where you presumably can't remove a package while it's in use (or can you?) > you can. linux != windows. you are allowed to pull the rug from under yourself (delete files that are in use). BUT this may have consequences. E will survive a short while like this until it needs data from data files (e.g. theme) and when it needs new data and checks... it won't find the files there and things will begin to go south. So you have a window of opportunity. remove, replace (fast) then restart e (ctl+alt+end keybinding for fastest way)... After some experimentation I pulled out of this path entirely. I successfully compiled EFL from source (with autoconf and make...more on this below) but the fact that Bodhi runs its own version of the EFL libs makes replacement a much more difficult task. Not because of the problems you mention above, but because getting rid of its own EFL libs (and eventually Moksha and its own Terminology) means there are a couple of dozen dependencies that it drags down with it. fyi i am replacing all of my efl and e install all the time (many > times a day) Yes, but not on Bodhi :-) > as i suggested. remove efl entirely and everything that depends on > it... In practice this simply won't work on Bodhi...it may be theoretically possible, but the tangle of dependencies goes too deep. then start again with something newer. you could self-compile efl+e+terminology+... I trashed the whole sorry mess and went to look again at Mint, which at least doesn't come with E by default (in fact, doesn't appear to have E in its repos at all :-) so it's a good candidate for installation. I had tried it before (Maté) but while it installed, it refused to reboot because it had messed up the Grub installation. However, in the meantime it appears that the Cinnamon release of Mint 18.3 now tolerates the deficiencies of the XPS 15 to the extent that it actually installed *and* rebooted! (I blogged this for anyone who wants the details at http://blogs.silmaril.ie/peter) This now means all I have to do is get E running. I appear to have three options (please correct me if I am wrong). Working on the basis that Mint is Ubuntu-based, https://www.enlightenment.org/docs/distros/ubuntu-start says: 1. PPA (niko2040); I haven't tried this yet so I don't know if it works for Mint. It failed on Bodhi but that was because of library dependency conflicts. 2. Build from source using Meson; never used Meson, and it won't install: Command "python setup.py egg_info" failed with error code 1 in /tmp/pip-build-ruyohi9b/meson/ You are using pip version 8.1.1, however version 9.0.1 is available. You should consider upgrading via the 'pip install --upgrade pip' command. This is nearly as bad as ant, another much-vaunted replacement for make which causes more trouble than it is worth. 3. (preferred) configure;make;make install (except it's autoconf rather than make, which is OK). So get EFL from Github, run ./autoconf.sh in efl, and make. This actually *worked* (amazingly) on Bodhi, but now fails on Mint 18.3: see next message. There also seems to be a fundamental problem with the downloaded code from: git clone https://git.enlightenment.org/core/enlightenment.git git clone https://git.enlightenment.org/apps/terminology.git git clone https://git.enlightenment.org/apps/rage.git None of them have any autoconf.sh so it's impossible to build them. ///Peter On 28/11/17 00:40, Dave wrote: >>> What happened when you ran "apt-get -f install"? To answer the question, it went around in circles, saying it was going to install the missing dependency and then saying it couldn't do so because there was an issue with dependencies. But I'm done with Bodhi. +++ -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] New applications -- menu/ibar entries
On 28/11/17 21:42, Jérémy Zurcher wrote: I think the best way to go is to clone efl and e from git.enlightenment.org, compile and install them in another prefix so that you don't break your Bodhi distro. just follow the steps here https://www.enlightenment.org/docs/distros/debian-start Yes, done that on several machines before I tried the PPA route. Never tried it using another prefix, but a good idea, and if it compiles, I can presumably then trash Bodhi's shipped efl/e/terminology and replace it with the compiled one. I guess the question is, *what* would need deleting, that is, what Bodhi packages? ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] New applications -- menu/ibar entries
On 28/11/17 00:05, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:38:30 + Peter Flynn <pe...@silmaril.ie> said: [snip] Does anyone have suggestions. I can't find a page describing how to replace Moksha with E22. looks like it needs a newer efl install. apt-get -f install ? or remove efl, enlightenment and anything that depends on these from bodhi and maybe compile your own? Should I do all this from a Ctl-Alt-F1 console, rather than from the X session (which would be Moksha) where you presumably can't remove a package while it's in use (or can you?). On 28/11/17 00:40, Dave wrote: [...] I'm not too experienced with Ubuntu PPA sources, but I had a look at that link, and it seems like the PPA source has that version of libefl available. Not sure why it wasn't installed automatically. I grabbed the screen log of the session so when I get back to the machine I'll have a look. I suspect it be a conflict: Moksha requiring one version of efl and the new e requiring a different one, and Bodhi refusing to run both. What happened when you ran "apt-get -f install"? That's what the log is. I'll have a look. It all went normally until the end when it claimed it had unmet dependencies. If you want, you can always download the .deb file and install it manually. Download it via the URL: https://launchpad.net/~niko2040/+archive/ubuntu/e19/+files/libefl_1.20.6-0xenial0_amd64.deb Always an option when you know where to find it :-) Thanks. Although on current behaviour, I wouldn't trust Bodhi to honour it, given that it already knows it doesn't have libefl (>= 1.20.6-0xenial0) and refused to install it when I typed apt-get -f install I assume you know how to use "dpkg" to install deb files. Yes indeed, thanks. ///Peter ///Peter -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
