Re: [EVDL] EVLN: UK's 1000hp 1975 Electric Enfield (v)
I believe john walland does the quarter in less than ten in his electric Mazda.
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On May 13, 2015, at 2:12 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
http://ecomento.com/2015/05/07/enfield-electric-1975-1000-horsepower-car/
Meet the 1000 horsepower 1975 Enfield electric (w/video)
May 7, 2015 |
[video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o6igJGsBoM
Flux Capacitor - 500+ hp Electric Enfield 8000 - 12.62 @ 101.65 mph
VeeDubRacing Apr 26, 2015
2015 Big Bang at Santa Pod Raceway
Jonny Smith in the Adrian Flux sponsored Flux Capacitor Electric Car. It is
a 1974 Enfield 8000 that ...
image
http://cdn.ecomento.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/1975-Enfield-electric-car-2.jpg
Enfield 8000 from the 1970s
]
Once upon a time, hot rodders talked about cubic inches and carburetors.
Today, they talk about volts, amps and kilowatt-hours. One such fellow is
Jonny Smith, a Brit who goes by the name CarPervert on Twitter.
Jonny was on the hunt for a tiny electric car from the 70’s called the
Enfield E8000 ECC. It came from the factory on the Isle of Wight with an 8
horsepower electric motor and a range of about 40 miles using a bank of
conventional lead/acid deep discharge batteries. He found the car he wanted
in Wales and set about converting it to a drag racer.
Smith was determined to make it into a 1000 horsepower 1975 Enfield. His
inspiration was John Wayland’s famous White Zombie – a lowly Datsun 1200
that was converted into a ferocious drag racer in Oregon. In an interesting
twist, that same car was also the inspiration for the Zombie 222 electric
Mustang we wrote about a few weeks ago.
Today, the car that started life as a modest electric runabout sports a
custom-built battery pack made up of 144 Kokam lithium-ion cells and
assembled by British firm Hyperdrive. The batteries are normally used to run
the starters and mini-guns in a Bell AH1 SuperCobra attack helicopter.
The batteries pack delivers 370 volts, 600 kilowatts, more than 2000 amps,
1003hp, and 1200 lb-ft of torque – all while weighing less than 360 lbs.
Those are the kind of numbers that bring tears to the eyes of modern day hot
rodders.
All that electricity goes to power two 9? Current Racing motors – modified
Netgain Warp 9? series wound direct current motors – which turn street legal
drag racing tires mounted on massive (for an Enfield) 14×7 Wolfrace mag
wheels harvested from a cast-off 1970 Pontiac TransAm.
Jonny Smith, aka CarPervert, named his micro-race Flux Capacitor, in honor
of the iconic DeLorean featured in the movie Back To The Future. During its
first race weekend, his team kept things turned down a bit. After all, 1003
horsepower in a car barely 8 feet long could be a bit scary. “I have to say
it felt shockingly good,” says Smith. “The twin 9? Current Racing motors
were strong, the coupling and 6? propshaft held, as did the Hyperdrive
battery pack, with its twinkling LED lit battery management system.”
Later in the weekend, the team turned up the wick and the car sprinted
through the quarter mile in 12.56 seconds at 101.43 mph. That’s faster than
the original 2010 Tesla Roadster. “Mid 12s makes it faster than any
road-going production EV bar Tesla’s P85D – which is my next benchmark to
beat,” Jonny said. “That means running 11s.”
Can the Flux Capacitor run more than a second quicker? Look at it this way:
The Enfield now weighs under 2000 lbs; the Tesla is around 5000 lbs. The
Enfield has 1003 horsepower; the Tesla about 700. So far, the Flux Capacitor
has been running only 70% of its maximum power. What do you think will
happen when all of its full potential is unleashed?
[© ecomento.com]
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
http://time.com/3856522/bill-nye-science-guy-reddit-questions/
billnye.com praises Powerwall wants wrist-device-called driverless-
etaxi-cities cleaner,quieter,nil-wrecks
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/local/energy-expert-2030-cars-will-be-self-driving-elect/nmFX2/
http://www.newswiretoday.com/news/152552/
Automakers Shift Plugins Towards 6kw Onboard Chargers
http://www.gizmag.com/electric-motorcycles-scooters-government-subsidy-uk/37309/
UK government to subsidize electric two-wheelers
http://www.shanghaidaily.com/metro/society/Street-cleaner-killed-by-drunk-driver/shdaily.shtml
EV-driving street-cleaner Xu-Yifeng killed by drunk-ice-driver @4:25a
http://english.eastday.com/auto/eastday/metro/u1ai8487340.html
http://www.sequimgazette.com/business/301725931.html
L2 SCH EVSE @Sequim, WA Co-op Farm Garden True Value store
+
EVLN: SWIFT rolls out Belgium's largest BMW i3-rex pih fleet
{brucedp.150m.com}
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Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: UK's 1000hp 1975 Electric Enfield (v)
A good run in a Tesla Model S P85 should be about 12.4 seconds.
A good run in a P85D should be about 11.7 seconds.
http://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/tesla-0-60-mph-times/
Mike
Later in the weekend, the team turned up the wick and the car sprinted
through the quarter mile in 12.56 seconds at 101.43 mph. That’s faster
than
the original 2010 Tesla Roadster. “Mid 12s makes it faster than any
road-going production EV bar Tesla’s P85D – which is my next benchmark
to
beat,” Jonny said. “That means running 11s.”
Can the Flux Capacitor run more than a second quicker? Look at it this
way:
The Enfield now weighs under 2000 lbs; the Tesla is around 5000 lbs.
The
Enfield has 1003 horsepower; the Tesla about 700. So far, the Flux
Capacitor
has been running only 70% of its maximum power. What do you think will
happen when all of its full potential is unleashed?
[© ecomento.com]
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
http://time.com/3856522/bill-nye-science-guy-reddit-questions/
billnye.com praises Powerwall wants wrist-device-called driverless-
etaxi-cities cleaner,quieter,nil-wrecks
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/local/energy-expert-2030-cars-will-be-self-driving-elect/nmFX2/
http://www.newswiretoday.com/news/152552/
Automakers Shift Plugins Towards 6kw Onboard Chargers
http://www.gizmag.com/electric-motorcycles-scooters-government-subsidy-uk/37309/
UK government to subsidize electric two-wheelers
http://www.shanghaidaily.com/metro/society/Street-cleaner-killed-by-drunk-driver/shdaily.shtml
EV-driving street-cleaner Xu-Yifeng killed by drunk-ice-driver @4:25a
http://english.eastday.com/auto/eastday/metro/u1ai8487340.html
http://www.sequimgazette.com/business/301725931.html
L2 SCH EVSE @Sequim, WA Co-op Farm Garden True Value store
+
EVLN: SWIFT rolls out Belgium's largest BMW i3-rex pih fleet
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-UK-s-1000hp-1975-Electric-Enfield-v-tp4675477.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
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[EVDL] Real-time pictures of lithium cell battery failures
Researchers used real-time x-ray and thermal imaging cameras to watch inside a laptop cell during failures. Not much technical data in this for the public report, but there are some interesting pictures and video. http://www.electronicproducts.com/Power_Products/Batteries_and_Fuel_Cells/For_the_first_time_engineers_track_in_real_time_what_happens_when_a_li_on_battery_overheats_and_explodes.aspx -- There are few industries with more BS than the battery industry. Elon Musk -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
It is actually 14.4 kWh from 110V/12A. Most people have 15A circuits and shouldn't draw more than 12A. When I first got my Tesla, I was charging on 110V and having some trouble keeping up. My normal commute is 50 miles round trip, plus side trips. The Tesla has about 250-300 wh per mile. With L2 charging, there is no problem, even after fully depleting the pack. It fully charged overnight. I do agree that smaller, lighter cars and better efficiency would be helpful. However, I'm not sure whether a cD less than 0.22 will be enough like a car to be practical and accepted. Looking through the lists of cars below, most cars with a drag coefficient less than 0.25 are concept cars. The Tesla Model S is actually pretty good at 0.24. Its biggest problem is its size and weight. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient On May 13, 2015 1:08:06 PM MDT, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On May 13, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Ben, on the subject of L1 chargers being good enough for nearly everybody and L2 being overkill, I would ask based on what data? Sorry...I had in mind overnight home charging, with the assumption that the 20 kWh you get from 12 hours @ 110V / 15A is going to be good enough for as many miles as nearly everybody is going to need in a day, especially given the types of efficiency figures we're headed towards and that Lawrence was advocating. At 250 Wh / mile, that's 80 miles. Even at 500 Wh / mile, that's still 40 miles, the range that Chevy targeted for the Volt as almost good enough for 100% electric for almost everybody. Yes, there will be exceptions...but how many people regularly drive more than 40 miles in a day, and, of those, how many are going to want to do so in an EV that's only doing 500 Wh / mile? Even more important...how many people are going to want to spend lots of extra money on an at-home fast charger if overnight L1 charging always leaves them with 80 miles more in the morning than they had at the end of the day before? b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
The assumption of what nearly everyone needs in a day is based on averages, right? Averages are built from data ranging from minimums to maximums. But real range needs are based on maximums. So it would be erroneous to assume that averages define the actual range needs of most people. Further, it matters how often people need to hop in the car and run an errand, handle an emergency or drive to the next town. Faster L2 charging frees up the car for more trips in a day, and L3 opens the portal to nearby intercity trips. Supercharging opens the portal to interstate trips. All of these charging options make an EV that much more practical. For the Volt there's a 300 mile generator included, so it's OK to design for most trips. But for a BEV, the driver must consider the maximum trip required or have another vehicle to pick up that slack. Cheers, -Jamie On 5/13/15 1:08 PM, Ben Goren wrote: On May 13, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Ben, on the subject of L1 chargers being good enough for nearly everybody and L2 being overkill, I would ask based on what data? Sorry...I had in mind overnight home charging, with the assumption that the 20 kWh you get from 12 hours @ 110V / 15A is going to be good enough for as many miles as nearly everybody is going to need in a day, especially given the types of efficiency figures we're headed towards and that Lawrence was advocating. At 250 Wh / mile, that's 80 miles. Even at 500 Wh / mile, that's still 40 miles, the range that Chevy targeted for the Volt as almost good enough for 100% electric for almost everybody. Yes, there will be exceptions...but how many people regularly drive more than 40 miles in a day, and, of those, how many are going to want to do so in an EV that's only doing 500 Wh / mile? Even more important...how many people are going to want to spend lots of extra money on an at-home fast charger if overnight L1 charging always leaves them with 80 miles more in the morning than they had at the end of the day before? b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] SolaRoad cycle path electricity yield exceeds expectations
I'm very skeptical, considering here in Ohio we scrape our roads down routinely in the winter months. Especially as I've often seen plow blades striking sparks against the concrete... Best regards, -- Cal Frye, www.calfrye.com Be an Internet Sceptic/ Stop. Think. Connect. www.stopthinkconnect.org - Be at least as safe on the Internet as you are crossing the street! Everyone complains of his memory, and no one complains of his judgement. --Francois de La Rochefoucauld, French writer. Ben Goren via EV mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org May 13, 2015 at 2:26 PM Interesting potential source of future EV energy: http://phys.org/news/2015-05-solaroad-path-electricity-yield.html I'm a bit skeptical, though...by its very nature, anything put on the road is going to have to be a lot more durable and therefore expensive than what you'd put on a rooftop. Still, it's definitely a neat idea! b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/b8f28f50/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
Good points about the importance of low weight and improved CD, Lawrence. If the Tesla Model 3 can be more efficient than the Model S, that would help get the price down from Model S levels while still maintaining their desired range. Carrying fewer batteries would help further with the weight side of the equation. It will be interesting to see what they can accomplish. Ben, on the subject of L1 chargers being good enough for nearly everybody and L2 being overkill, I would ask based on what data? I can tell you that the 6.6kW L2 charging ability _at home_ is what makes our 2013 LEAF practical for our use. There are days when we charge several times, from home. Even 3.3kW L2 would make the LEAF much less useful. Relying on slow L1 would make it necessary to drive another car much of the time. Once there's a 160+ miles/charge LEAF with a larger battery pack, L1 would be even less practical since it would take days to charge from empty. Finally, L3 is what makes our LEAF practical for trips to nearby towns, where we can charge quickly near the destination in order to make the return trip. Having just L1 would eliminate the LEAF from that use case entirely, and even 6.6kW L2 would generally be too slow. For longer road trips the supercharging approach works for the Model S, and it could work even better for more people given higher efficiency, lower cost vehicles in the future. The Model S is high performance but low efficiency. Cheers, -Jamie On 5/13/15 11:58 AM, Ben Goren via EV wrote: On May 13, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Most EV charging can and should reasonably be expected to be done while the vehicle is parked, especially overnight at home. L1 chargers are today and always will be good enough for that for nearly everybody, and L2 is pretty much guaranteed overkill for nearly all the rest. ...but...unless the per-charge mileage is in the four-digit range, there will be situations where people will want to charge, wherever they happen to be, and they're not going to be happy if it takes more than ten or fifteen minutes. And 15 kWh / 15 minutes is 60 kilowatts...not quite the level of insanity of a megawatt, but still in a range far beyond what you'd ever see in a residential setting. The *real* problem is that I don't think that there's an overlap between what rapid charging is likely to cost and what people are likely to be willing to pay, especially when they're used to paying on the order of $0.10 / kWh at home. And with low demand, the prices would have to be even higher since they won't be spread out over as many customers, driving down demand even further. But without the option for rapid charging, a small but significant minority of the miles people unthinkingly drive today simply can't be done in an electric vehicle, creating a chicken-and-egg problem. That's part of Tesla's marketing brilliance with their own rapid charger network, but I don't know that it's something that can realistically be made universal. Perhaps our best real-world hope is for Tesla to offer universal adapters to their superchargers for about the same price as they charge to upgrade their vehicles to supercharger capability. (Same price because Tesla's price includes their capital and operating expenses for the network, not just whatever is done to the car itself.) Done right, that would allow the minority who need to make road trips in non-Tesla vehicles to do so...and it even opens up the possibility for renting the adapters for rare road trips. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
I'm speaking of normal driving. Besides, I live in the country and most roads are 55 MPH anyway. If I drive in town at 40 it goes much further but that goes without saying. From: Russ Sciville via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Peri Hartman pe...@kotatko.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way. Yes, needs a gentle foot but often achieved. Checkout SpeakEV forum in the Volt/Ampera section.I've achieved 48 miles which includes city driving. From: Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2015, 17:13 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way. Are you sure about that number? That would be equivalent to the Leaf regularly getting about 120 miles on a charge. Probably possible on a flat road, no stops, at 40mph but not possible for regular driving. Peri -- Original Message -- From: Russ Sciville via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 13-May-15 9:05:34 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way. Volt/Ampera's regularly do more than 50 miles on their 10.4kWh battery packs and that includes dragging round a backup four cylinder engine in a steel chassis. From: Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2015, 16:59 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way. The I-MiEV already is energy efficient. It travels 60 miles on a 16kw battery and charges in 30 min on chase mo. Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2015, at 10:37 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I've now heard all the talk about 5 minute quick charging batteries and the 1 megawatt per car requirement. It's time to stop the madness. As much as I love Tesla all their models are big energy pigs. 85KW! Yes much better than a gas car of any size but when there are vehicles that can go further on less energy why not use efficiency and not sheer battery size to attain your goal. Stella the electric car that won the Cruiser Class of the World Solar Challenge has a 16kw pack that can take the car 375 miles with no sunlight. Using the solar panels it can go further and faster. Engineers seem to forget that it's not the range that hurts electric cars but the charging time. If you reduce the pack size charging times will lessen just by size requiring less than MW consumption. Think of a ten stall quick charging station. That might require 10mw when fully deployed. Then look at Stella at a Chademo site. About 20 minutes to 80 percent. With those new batteries I cou ldn't tell you but very quick and it wouldn't need mega watt levels of electricity. So I think the engineers need to put their thinking caps on, reduce the weight of every vehicle, make the CD of all new vehicles .16 or so and stop making these energy hogs. Efficiency not Mega Watts. Lawrence RhodesStella Solar Powered Car | | | | | | | | | | | Stella Solar Powered CarSarah Buhr goes for a ride in the the Stella, the first four seater solar powered car. on the TCTV Newsshow from TechCrunch TV | | | | View on techcrunch.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/0855d981/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/2036c6be/attachment-0001.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/25ae2eae/attachment-0001
Re: [EVDL] SolaRoad cycle path electricity yield exceeds expectations
Same issue with snow plows here too. However, the demonstration pilot is on a bike path next to the road. If they continue doing that, it might help alleviate issues with the plows. Much smaller equipment is used to clear separate bike paths (if they are even cleared at all). Mike On May 13, 2015 12:34:54 PM MDT, Cal Frye via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I'm very skeptical, considering here in Ohio we scrape our roads down routinely in the winter months. Especially as I've often seen plow blades striking sparks against the concrete... Best regards, -- Cal Frye, www.calfrye.com Be an Internet Sceptic/ Stop. Think. Connect. www.stopthinkconnect.org - Be at least as safe on the Internet as you are crossing the street! Everyone complains of his memory, and no one complains of his judgement. --Francois de La Rochefoucauld, French writer. Ben Goren via EV mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org May 13, 2015 at 2:26 PM Interesting potential source of future EV energy: http://phys.org/news/2015-05-solaroad-path-electricity-yield.html I'm a bit skeptical, though...by its very nature, anything put on the road is going to have to be a lot more durable and therefore expensive than what you'd put on a rooftop. Still, it's definitely a neat idea! b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/b8f28f50/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
State opf Maryland study came up with only 0.3% of the need is fast charging. This was from a total indepth DOT transportation and counting of vehicle statistics on all roads in the state. BOb -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 4:00 PM To: Jamie K; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way. On May 13, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: But real range needs are based on maximums. I'd agree with that. And I hope I'm not coming across as suggesting that in-home L1 charging is the only way that an EV would ever be charged. My point is that most people don't need more than L1 chargers in their home, if we're assuming that there are faster charging options on the road. But the resulting problem is that that sets an expectation of, say, at $0.10 / kWh and a 50 kWh (usable) pack and 250 wH / mile...a 200-mile range that costs $5 in fuel in the tank. And what roadside rapid charger of any capability, let alone a supercharger, can compete with costs like that? That big gap between the cost for most cars to mostly be charged and the minimum cost for profitability for rapid charging stations is going to be a challenge. If batteries were cheap, one solution would be cars with even bigger batteries. If you drive a few extra miles in a day and more than your charger can top off overnight, no big deal so long as you don't do that every day for several days on end. But batteries aren't cheap, and you've still got a problem for multi-day road trips. Maybe the hotels invest in rapid chargers that're comfortable putting a 500-mile charge into a typical car over the course of eight hours, and the expense is included in the room rate? Because, even at 250 wH / mile, you're still looking at 70A @ 220V for that, more than is realistic for any home charger. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
Charging associated with hotels seems like a good idea for road trips. For day-to-day local use, do you primarily drive an EV where you use L1 charging at home or are you talking theoretically? I'm coming from a perspective of practical experience with an electric car as our main vehicle. Approximately 22 hours of L1 would be a long time to be plugged in. Even 10 hours for a lesser charge would be unworkable for us. Such long charge times take the car out of commission when it's needed. Having only L1 charging at home wouldn't work for us because it wouldn't cover our maximum range needs within a workable amount of time. In addition to over night charging opportunities, we also need to be able to replenish the charge during the day in a reasonably short amount of time. We don't view our LEAF as just a simple commuter car, it's what we use for everything except long road trips. And no, we don't want to stop at public chargers unless absolutely necessary. Reasonably fast home charging and jumping into a ready-to-go topped up car is very practical. I'm not convinced that L1 is sufficient for most people as a practical matter. It could work for a predictable commuting pattern, but L2, especially 6.6kWh+, makes EVs more practical for life's unexpected twists and turns. If the goal is just to provide a simple commuter car, sure, that could work, but if the goal is to upgrade the general car fleet to electric power, faster home charging is part of that equation. I know a volt owner who started out with L1. But even for the Volt, with its gas generator backup, he soon realized home L2 made his car more practical (BTW a lot of Volt owners I know suffer from gas anxiety - they want to avoid burning gas). Count me among those who would like to see GM up the V2 Volt's L2 support to something faster than 3.3kW. Cheers, -Jamie On 5/13/15 2:00 PM, Ben Goren wrote: On May 13, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: But real range needs are based on maximums. I'd agree with that. And I hope I'm not coming across as suggesting that in-home L1 charging is the only way that an EV would ever be charged. My point is that most people don't need more than L1 chargers in their home, if we're assuming that there are faster charging options on the road. But the resulting problem is that that sets an expectation of, say, at $0.10 / kWh and a 50 kWh (usable) pack and 250 wH / mile...a 200-mile range that costs $5 in fuel in the tank. And what roadside rapid charger of any capability, let alone a supercharger, can compete with costs like that? That big gap between the cost for most cars to mostly be charged and the minimum cost for profitability for rapid charging stations is going to be a challenge. If batteries were cheap, one solution would be cars with even bigger batteries. If you drive a few extra miles in a day and more than your charger can top off overnight, no big deal so long as you don't do that every day for several days on end. But batteries aren't cheap, and you've still got a problem for multi-day road trips. Maybe the hotels invest in rapid chargers that're comfortable putting a 500-mile charge into a typical car over the course of eight hours, and the expense is included in the room rate? Because, even at 250 wH / mile, you're still looking at 70A @ 220V for that, more than is realistic for any home charger. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
No they don't. 30 to 35 miles on battery. You would have to prove that, Of course the i-MiEV will go further if you drive 40 MPH. I was speaking of normal driving. From: Russ Sciville rustyb...@yahoo.co.uk To: Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way. Volt/Ampera's regularly do more than 50 miles on their 10.4kWh battery packs and that includes dragging round a backup four cylinder engine in a steel chassis. From: Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2015, 16:59 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way. The I-MiEV already is energy efficient. It travels 60 miles on a 16kw battery and charges in 30 min on chase mo. Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2015, at 10:37 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I've now heard all the talk about 5 minute quick charging batteries and the 1 megawatt per car requirement. It's time to stop the madness. As much as I love Tesla all their models are big energy pigs. 85KW! Yes much better than a gas car of any size but when there are vehicles that can go further on less energy why not use efficiency and not sheer battery size to attain your goal. Stella the electric car that won the Cruiser Class of the World Solar Challenge has a 16kw pack that can take the car 375 miles with no sunlight. Using the solar panels it can go further and faster. Engineers seem to forget that it's not the range that hurts electric cars but the charging time. If you reduce the pack size charging times will lessen just by size requiring less than MW consumption. Think of a ten stall quick charging station. That might require 10mw when fully deployed. Then look at Stella at a Chademo site. About 20 minutes to 80 percent. With those new batteries I cou ldn't tell you but very quick and it wouldn't need mega watt levels of electricity. So I think the engineers need to put their thinking caps on, reduce the weight of every vehicle, make the CD of all new vehicles .16 or so and stop making these energy hogs. Efficiency not Mega Watts. Lawrence RhodesStella Solar Powered Car | | | | | | | | | | | Stella Solar Powered CarSarah Buhr goes for a ride in the the Stella, the first four seater solar powered car. on the TCTV Newsshow from TechCrunch TV | | | | View on techcrunch.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/0855d981/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/73de1dc1/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
On May 13, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Ben, on the subject of L1 chargers being good enough for nearly everybody and L2 being overkill, I would ask based on what data? Sorry...I had in mind overnight home charging, with the assumption that the 20 kWh you get from 12 hours @ 110V / 15A is going to be good enough for as many miles as nearly everybody is going to need in a day, especially given the types of efficiency figures we're headed towards and that Lawrence was advocating. At 250 Wh / mile, that's 80 miles. Even at 500 Wh / mile, that's still 40 miles, the range that Chevy targeted for the Volt as almost good enough for 100% electric for almost everybody. Yes, there will be exceptions...but how many people regularly drive more than 40 miles in a day, and, of those, how many are going to want to do so in an EV that's only doing 500 Wh / mile? Even more important...how many people are going to want to spend lots of extra money on an at-home fast charger if overnight L1 charging always leaves them with 80 miles more in the morning than they had at the end of the day before? b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
On May 13, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: But real range needs are based on maximums. I'd agree with that. And I hope I'm not coming across as suggesting that in-home L1 charging is the only way that an EV would ever be charged. My point is that most people don't need more than L1 chargers in their home, if we're assuming that there are faster charging options on the road. But the resulting problem is that that sets an expectation of, say, at $0.10 / kWh and a 50 kWh (usable) pack and 250 wH / mile...a 200-mile range that costs $5 in fuel in the tank. And what roadside rapid charger of any capability, let alone a supercharger, can compete with costs like that? That big gap between the cost for most cars to mostly be charged and the minimum cost for profitability for rapid charging stations is going to be a challenge. If batteries were cheap, one solution would be cars with even bigger batteries. If you drive a few extra miles in a day and more than your charger can top off overnight, no big deal so long as you don't do that every day for several days on end. But batteries aren't cheap, and you've still got a problem for multi-day road trips. Maybe the hotels invest in rapid chargers that're comfortable putting a 500-mile charge into a typical car over the course of eight hours, and the expense is included in the room rate? Because, even at 250 wH / mile, you're still looking at 70A @ 220V for that, more than is realistic for any home charger. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
The normal verbiage used is average and you are correct (I think) in pointing out that if a BEV is to be your only vehicle you might want to look at average plus 2 standard deviations which would cover 95% of your travels and leave only 5% needing to use public transit or a rental vehicle. In my case I have a second vehicle and so use that for extended trips and can live with the average plus 1 standard deviation as my range goals. Lawrence On May 13, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: The assumption of what nearly everyone needs in a day is based on averages, right? Averages are built from data ranging from minimums to maximums. But real range needs are based on maximums. So it would be erroneous to assume that averages define the actual range needs of most people. Further, it matters how often people need to hop in the car and run an errand, handle an emergency or drive to the next town. Faster L2 charging frees up the car for more trips in a day, and L3 opens the portal to nearby intercity trips. Supercharging opens the portal to interstate trips. All of these charging options make an EV that much more practical. For the Volt there's a 300 mile generator included, so it's OK to design for most trips. But for a BEV, the driver must consider the maximum trip required or have another vehicle to pick up that slack. Cheers, -Jamie On 5/13/15 1:08 PM, Ben Goren wrote: On May 13, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Ben, on the subject of L1 chargers being good enough for nearly everybody and L2 being overkill, I would ask based on what data? Sorry...I had in mind overnight home charging, with the assumption that the 20 kWh you get from 12 hours @ 110V / 15A is going to be good enough for as many miles as nearly everybody is going to need in a day, especially given the types of efficiency figures we're headed towards and that Lawrence was advocating. At 250 Wh / mile, that's 80 miles. Even at 500 Wh / mile, that's still 40 miles, the range that Chevy targeted for the Volt as almost good enough for 100% electric for almost everybody. Yes, there will be exceptions...but how many people regularly drive more than 40 miles in a day, and, of those, how many are going to want to do so in an EV that's only doing 500 Wh / mile? Even more important...how many people are going to want to spend lots of extra money on an at-home fast charger if overnight L1 charging always leaves them with 80 miles more in the morning than they had at the end of the day before? b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
Yes, needs a gentle foot but often achieved. Checkout SpeakEV forum in the Volt/Ampera section.I've achieved 48 miles which includes city driving. From: Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2015, 17:13 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way. Are you sure about that number? That would be equivalent to the Leaf regularly getting about 120 miles on a charge. Probably possible on a flat road, no stops, at 40mph but not possible for regular driving. Peri -- Original Message -- From: Russ Sciville via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 13-May-15 9:05:34 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way. Volt/Ampera's regularly do more than 50 miles on their 10.4kWh battery packs and that includes dragging round a backup four cylinder engine in a steel chassis. From: Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2015, 16:59 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way. The I-MiEV already is energy efficient. It travels 60 miles on a 16kw battery and charges in 30 min on chase mo. Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2015, at 10:37 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I've now heard all the talk about 5 minute quick charging batteries and the 1 megawatt per car requirement. It's time to stop the madness. As much as I love Tesla all their models are big energy pigs. 85KW! Yes much better than a gas car of any size but when there are vehicles that can go further on less energy why not use efficiency and not sheer battery size to attain your goal. Stella the electric car that won the Cruiser Class of the World Solar Challenge has a 16kw pack that can take the car 375 miles with no sunlight. Using the solar panels it can go further and faster. Engineers seem to forget that it's not the range that hurts electric cars but the charging time. If you reduce the pack size charging times will lessen just by size requiring less than MW consumption. Think of a ten stall quick charging station. That might require 10mw when fully deployed. Then look at Stella at a Chademo site. About 20 minutes to 80 percent. With those new batteries I cou ldn't tell you but very quick and it wouldn't need mega watt levels of electricity. So I think the engineers need to put their thinking caps on, reduce the weight of every vehicle, make the CD of all new vehicles .16 or so and stop making these energy hogs. Efficiency not Mega Watts. Lawrence RhodesStella Solar Powered Car | | | | | | | | | | | Stella Solar Powered CarSarah Buhr goes for a ride in the the Stella, the first four seater solar powered car. on the TCTV Newsshow from TechCrunch TV | | | | View on techcrunch.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/0855d981/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/2036c6be/attachment-0001.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/25ae2eae/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
On May 13, 2015, at 1:44 PM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I'm coming from a perspective of practical experience with an electric car as our main vehicle. The big factor you left out is daily driving mileage. If you're putting 80 miles a day on the car, yes, L1 is probably borderline at best for you. But, for most people, half that is an unusually busy driving day. Not all people, of course, by any means...but most. Remember: most automotive warranties are in the range of 10,000 miles / year, which is equal to 40 miles per day, five days a week, fifty weeks a year; if you're doing more than that, you're probably beyond your warranty's coverage, which most people don't do. And, with a 250 Wh / mile vehicle (such as the LEAF), 40 miles is a mere 10 kWh and well under 7 hours at L1 rates. If it takes less time to charge the car for an entire day's worth of driving than it does to get a night's sleep, any sort of argument for faster charging as the normal mode is damned hard to make. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
Are you sure about that number? That would be equivalent to the Leaf regularly getting about 120 miles on a charge. Probably possible on a flat road, no stops, at 40mph but not possible for regular driving. Peri -- Original Message -- From: Russ Sciville via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 13-May-15 9:05:34 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way. Volt/Ampera's regularly do more than 50 miles on their 10.4kWh battery packs and that includes dragging round a backup four cylinder engine in a steel chassis. From: Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2015, 16:59 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way. The I-MiEV already is energy efficient. It travels 60 miles on a 16kw battery and charges in 30 min on chase mo. Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2015, at 10:37 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I've now heard all the talk about 5 minute quick charging batteries and the 1 megawatt per car requirement. It's time to stop the madness. As much as I love Tesla all their models are big energy pigs. 85KW! Yes much better than a gas car of any size but when there are vehicles that can go further on less energy why not use efficiency and not sheer battery size to attain your goal. Stella the electric car that won the Cruiser Class of the World Solar Challenge has a 16kw pack that can take the car 375 miles with no sunlight. Using the solar panels it can go further and faster. Engineers seem to forget that it's not the range that hurts electric cars but the charging time. If you reduce the pack size charging times will lessen just by size requiring less than MW consumption. Think of a ten stall quick charging station. That might require 10mw when fully deployed. Then look at Stella at a Chademo site. About 20 minutes to 80 percent. With those new batteries I cou ldn't tell you but very quick and it wouldn't need mega watt levels of electricity. So I think the engineers need to put their thinking caps on, reduce the weight of every vehicle, make the CD of all new vehicles .16 or so and stop making these energy hogs. Efficiency not Mega Watts.Lawrence RhodesStella Solar Powered Car | | | | | | | | | | | Stella Solar Powered CarSarah Buhr goes for a ride in the the Stella, the first four seater solar powered car. on the TCTV Newsshow from TechCrunch TV | | | | View on techcrunch.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/0855d981/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/2036c6be/attachment-0001.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
The I-MiEV already is energy efficient. It travels 60 miles on a 16kw battery and charges in 30 min on chase mo. Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2015, at 10:37 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I've now heard all the talk about 5 minute quick charging batteries and the 1 megawatt per car requirement. It's time to stop the madness. As much as I love Tesla all their models are big energy pigs. 85KW! Yes much better than a gas car of any size but when there are vehicles that can go further on less energy why not use efficiency and not sheer battery size to attain your goal. Stella the electric car that won the Cruiser Class of the World Solar Challenge has a 16kw pack that can take the car 375 miles with no sunlight. Using the solar panels it can go further and faster. Engineers seem to forget that it's not the range that hurts electric cars but the charging time. If you reduce the pack size charging times will lessen just by size requiring less than MW consumption. Think of a ten stall quick charging station. That might require 10mw when fully deployed. Then look at Stella at a Chademo site. About 20 minutes to 80 percent. With those new batteries I cou ldn't tell you but very quick and it wouldn't need mega watt levels of electricity. So I think the engineers need to put their thinking caps on, reduce the weight of every vehicle, make the CD of all new vehicles .16 or so and stop making these energy hogs. Efficiency not Mega Watts.Lawrence RhodesStella Solar Powered Car | | | | | | | | | | | Stella Solar Powered CarSarah Buhr goes for a ride in the the Stella, the first four seater solar powered car. on the TCTV Newsshow from TechCrunch TV | | | | View on techcrunch.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/0855d981/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
Volt/Ampera's regularly do more than 50 miles on their 10.4kWh battery packs and that includes dragging round a backup four cylinder engine in a steel chassis. From: Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2015, 16:59 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way. The I-MiEV already is energy efficient. It travels 60 miles on a 16kw battery and charges in 30 min on chase mo. Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2015, at 10:37 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I've now heard all the talk about 5 minute quick charging batteries and the 1 megawatt per car requirement. It's time to stop the madness. As much as I love Tesla all their models are big energy pigs. 85KW! Yes much better than a gas car of any size but when there are vehicles that can go further on less energy why not use efficiency and not sheer battery size to attain your goal. Stella the electric car that won the Cruiser Class of the World Solar Challenge has a 16kw pack that can take the car 375 miles with no sunlight. Using the solar panels it can go further and faster. Engineers seem to forget that it's not the range that hurts electric cars but the charging time. If you reduce the pack size charging times will lessen just by size requiring less than MW consumption. Think of a ten stall quick charging station. That might require 10mw when fully deployed. Then look at Stella at a Chademo site. About 20 minutes to 80 percent. With those new batteries I cou ldn't tell you but very quick and it wouldn't need mega watt levels of electricity. So I think the engineers need to put their thinking caps on, reduce the weight of every vehicle, make the CD of all new vehicles .16 or so and stop making these energy hogs. Efficiency not Mega Watts. Lawrence RhodesStella Solar Powered Car | | | | | | | | | | | Stella Solar Powered CarSarah Buhr goes for a ride in the the Stella, the first four seater solar powered car. on the TCTV Newsshow from TechCrunch TV | | | | View on techcrunch.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/0855d981/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/2036c6be/attachment-0001.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
needs (but not merely their average range needs). Talk to anyone who started out with only L1 (usually to save money) but eventually added L2. An EV with faster home charging becomes much more flexible and useful and creates happier EV drivers, which helps word-of-mouth promotion and growth in the EV market. Cheers, -Jamie On 5/13/15 6:04 PM, Ben Goren wrote: On May 13, 2015, at 1:44 PM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I'm coming from a perspective of practical experience with an electric car as our main vehicle. The big factor you left out is daily driving mileage. If you're putting 80 miles a day on the car, yes, L1 is probably borderline at best for you. But, for most people, half that is an unusually busy driving day. Not all people, of course, by any means...but most. Remember: most automotive warranties are in the range of 10,000 miles / year, which is equal to 40 miles per day, five days a week, fifty weeks a year; if you're doing more than that, you're probably beyond your warranty's coverage, which most people don't do. And, with a 250 Wh / mile vehicle (such as the LEAF), 40 miles is a mere 10 kWh and well under 7 hours at L1 rates. If it takes less time to charge the car for an entire day's worth of driving than it does to get a night's sleep, any sort of argument for faster charging as the normal mode is damned hard to make. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/141d1c29/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
All I can tell you is that from our experience, L2 is not rapid charging, it's normal charging. Whereas when you have somewhere to go soon, L1 is punishment charging. There are places where L1 works well, for example at an airport where the car is going to sit for days. And no doubt there are folks who don't need much spontaneity and have consistent daily needs (or another vehicle available) so that L1 would suffice. But while L1 can work for some cases, and it's nice to have in a pinch, it clearly limits what can be done with an EV. I wouldn't try to speak for most people, but I do think that flexible (home and away) charging options are big part of the equation for growing the EV market. L2 controllers do not cost thousands, ours was around $1k with professional installation and construction permit. Faster home charging adds flexibility and makes the car investment worth much more. When 200 mile ranges become the norm, it will be even more useful to charge at home at L2 6.6kW (or more) at around 25 miles per hour (or more) instead of trickling in at 5 miles/hour or so - except for those who don't mind parking their car much of the time and limiting their EV options. The potential pricing of L3 charging is an interesting topic. Right now it's free or not much $$ around here. BTW, Nissan removed their earlier warning about L3 charging after monitoring the performance of the packs for several years, and perhaps after changing the battery chemistry. Cheers, -Jamie On 5/13/15 7:19 PM, Ben Goren wrote: On May 13, 2015, at 5:57 PM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: It's the outliers that you have to accommodate. Yes, but not necessarily with rapid charging. When 200-mile ranges become the norm, as is promised soon -- say, a 40 kWh (usable) battery in a (conservative) 200 Wh / mile car -- the situation becomes moot. Put 150 miles on the car in an unusual day. Put only 70 miles back in the car in a shortened overnight charge. The battery isn't full, but you've still got 120 miles of range. Do your normal (but still more than average) 40 miles the next day; down to 80. Put another 70 in overnight and it's back to full. At no time did you have less than 50 miles of range, and all your charging was at L1 rates only while you were in bed. Will that handle cross-country road trips? No. Can you drive to Grandma 200 miles away at the end of the day after a 40-mile round trip commute? No. If you need to do that sort of thing often or without warning, you'll need something more. But most people will look at that and decide they can pay exorbitant rates at somebody else's rapid charger the once or twice a year that sort of thing happens, or rent a car, or otherwise manage, rather than spend thousands on a dedicated charger. Of course, if your car can only go ~60 miles on a charge and takes a lot of Wh to do so, range anxiety starts to set in and rapid charging is a real way to assuage it. But if you can be confident that you'll wake up every morning with more miles in the tank than you'll need to drive, range anxiety vanishes. ...not to mention that rapid charging tends to shorten battery life b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
Small, light, efficient, yes. Bring 'em on! We also live in a small town, but it's in the middle of a large metro area. Not surprisingly, with that and other considerations our driving needs are different. We couldn't make a go of it here with just L1 and the LEAF. But with home 6.6kW L2 it's working pretty well. Cheers, -Jamie On 5/13/15 9:36 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: Jamie K via EV wrote: All I can tell you is that from our experience, L2 is not rapid charging, it's normal charging. Whereas when you have somewhere to go soon, L1 is punishment charging. This is the problem that Lawrence Rhodes pointed out. If you build EVs just like big heavy power-hungry ICEs, then they need lots of power. That means big expensive battery packs, and big expensive fast chargers. But if you build small, light, efficient EVs, then all this excess size, weight, and cost goes away. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
So I take it you aren't driving an electric car and using L1 at home to do all or most of your driving? For us it isn't hypothetical or theoretical. And for anyone, please be clear that a typical day is not a relevant metric for range requirements. It's the outliers that you have to accommodate. Don't lose sight of that. Your data about 10,000 miles being 40 miles per day is again getting hung up on the average. The average is not the appropriate consideration for range, some days will be less, some more, and a savvy (and ultimately satisfied) EV buyer must consider the latter cases (or have another vehicle that can handle them). The average doesn't include trips to grandma's in the next town over, or the emergency trip to a child's school, or an extra trip home to retrieve a forgotten item, or going out again after work, or rushing to a hospital, or accommodating any other part of life that may come up occasionally that, while above the irrelevant average, are important and maybe even critical. Some days we might not drive at all, some days we might charge multiple times and cover longer distances. On those days, with the 6.6kW charger, we are back in business in an hour or so, four at the most. whereas if we were at the mercy of slow L1, multiply that times five. Realistically, on those days we can't wait 5-20ish hours for each additional charge. On those days, we can't have the car be out of service for anywhere close to that long, that would make it unusable. If the goal here is to have electric cars be widely adopted and not just niche vehicles, flexibility for the busier days is key. Faster charging makes that possible. On days when it's not important, no problem. On those days when it IS important, what a relief it is to have a usable car. The top selling EV is the Nissan LEAF, and they get it. They offer 6.6kW L2 charging including at home, and much faster L3 charging, both of which make our 2013 SV usable for our situation, for everything but longer road trips. They are also working toward longer range cars which will also help EV adoption, as will the next round from Tesla, GM and hopefully others. Of course our situation is not everyone's situation, but I wouldn't dismiss it as particularly rare either. Everyone's situation is different and potential EV owners have to evaluate range based on their own range needs (but not merely their average range needs). Talk to anyone who started out with only L1 (usually to save money) but eventually added L2. An EV with faster home charging becomes much more flexible and useful and creates happier EV drivers, which helps word-of-mouth promotion and growth in the EV market. Cheers, -Jamie On 5/13/15 6:04 PM, Ben Goren wrote: On May 13, 2015, at 1:44 PM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I'm coming from a perspective of practical experience with an electric car as our main vehicle. The big factor you left out is daily driving mileage. If you're putting 80 miles a day on the car, yes, L1 is probably borderline at best for you. But, for most people, half that is an unusually busy driving day. Not all people, of course, by any means...but most. Remember: most automotive warranties are in the range of 10,000 miles / year, which is equal to 40 miles per day, five days a week, fifty weeks a year; if you're doing more than that, you're probably beyond your warranty's coverage, which most people don't do. And, with a 250 Wh / mile vehicle (such as the LEAF), 40 miles is a mere 10 kWh and well under 7 hours at L1 rates. If it takes less time to charge the car for an entire day's worth of driving than it does to get a night's sleep, any sort of argument for faster charging as the normal mode is damned hard to make. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
Ben Goren via EV wrote: Most EV charging can and should reasonably be expected to be done while the vehicle is parked, especially overnight at home. L1 chargers are today and always will be good enough for that for nearly everybody... L2 is pretty much guaranteed overkill This describes my real-world situation. We live in a small town, so the Leaf's 100-mile range, and even my LeCar's 50-mile range is perfectly fine for daily driving. And, we have an ICE car for long trips or emergencies. In fact, our ICE (a 2001 Prius) was down for repairs, so we went all winter with *no* ICE car -- just the EVs. Thus, 99% of our charging is 120vac L1 charging, done at home, overnight. We've had our Leaf for a year, and *never* run out of range, or needed L2 charging. The other 1%? I actually have a 240vac L2 charging cord; but have only used it a few times as a test to make sure it works. I got it as a placebo for my wife's range anxiety. :-) but... there will be situations where people will want to charge, wherever they happen to be, and they're not going to be happy if it takes more than ten or fifteen minutes. Right. People who are used to ICEs want their EV to be exactly like their ICE car. They want a range of several hundred miles per charge, and fast refueling at public fuel stations, just like a gas station. That's fine -- a certain percentage of the market will never be happy with EVs until they are just like ICEs. The *real* problem is that I don't think that there's an overlap between what rapid charging is likely to cost and what people are likely to be willing to pay, especially when they're used to paying on the order of $0.10 / kWh at home. Companies that are promoting fast-charging and high fees for electricity see them as an opportunity to make Big Profits. (They're used to paying $50 for a tank of gas, so they'll happily pay $10 for a charge that only cost us $1 for the electricity.) But it will be interesting to see how many of these people discover that they prefer cheap charging at home overnight, instead of having to drive to some public charging station, and risk waiting for hours or paying high fees for electricity. Perhaps our best real-world hope is for Tesla to offer universal adapters to their superchargers for about the same price as they charge to upgrade their vehicles to supercharger capability. (Same price because Tesla's price includes their capital and operating expenses for the network, not just whatever is done to the car itself.) Done right, that would allow the minority who need to make road trips in non-Tesla vehicles to do so...and it even opens up the possibility for renting the adapters for rare road trips. It's hard to imagine the auto companies agreeing on any kind of standard for fast-charging. They all see it as an opportunity to establish a new monopoly. The LAST thing they want is for competitors to be able to use their chargers (without paying big royalties for the privilege). -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
Jamie K via EV wrote: All I can tell you is that from our experience, L2 is not rapid charging, it's normal charging. Whereas when you have somewhere to go soon, L1 is punishment charging. This is the problem that Lawrence Rhodes pointed out. If you build EVs just like big heavy power-hungry ICEs, then they need lots of power. That means big expensive battery packs, and big expensive fast chargers. But if you build small, light, efficient EVs, then all this excess size, weight, and cost goes away. -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: UK's 1000hp 1975 Electric Enfield (v)
On May 13, 2015, at 12:12 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Later in the weekend, the team turned up the wick and the car sprinted through the quarter mile in 12.56 seconds at 101.43 mph. Quite respectable in and of itself, and most impressive in a car that started life as the antithesis of fast! The batteries pack delivers 370 volts, 600 kilowatts, more than 2000 amps, 1003hp, and 1200 lb-ft of torque – all while weighing less than 360 lbs. 370 V * 2000 A = 740 kW, not 600 kW, and that's going to work out to be much closer to about the same numeric value for horsepower rather than 1003, so something isn't adding up. Very lightweight, though, for that much power. Be nice to know the Ah / kWh capacity...and the source and price Regardless, in a vehicle that weighs under 2,000 pounds, he's got waay more power than he'll ever actually be able to put to the ground -- exactly the kind of problem you want in drag racing. Just taking that 1200 lb-ft of torque at face value...that's well over half the weight of the car, meaning that, assuming tires roughly 24 in diameter (give or take), even with no gear reduction (fourth gear equivalent and a 1:1 rear differential) he can _still_ break the tires loose. Insane! His big challenge is traction, including weight and balance management (especially getting the weight to shift to the rear axle without going over backwards) since he's not likely to be able to do much more with the tires. Seems like a really fun project, and I bet it's even more fun to drive! b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] OT: Self-driving semi truck licensed and unveiled last week
No necessarily EV, but definitely in the new technology corner, where EV or hybridization would be a benefit for Semi trucks as well. Freightliner has unveiled their Insiration truck, which is autonomous level 3 which means that there still needs to be a human behind the wheel, but in certain conditions (in this case - while driving on the freeway) the driver does not need to be paying attention and can do other tasks; only for delivering and picking up cargo when surface streets are driven, that is where the driver currently needs to be in full control. What Freightliner did essentially is to add a stereo camera to their existing adaptive cruise control to go from level 2 to level 3 autonomy. They even demonstrated (my personal favorite to get better fuel economy fast) is platooning - driving very close together with 2 or more vehicles, so you form a road train. They also set a world record, but not one that you would expect, see the article: http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/self-driving/freightliner-unveils-first-autonomous-semitruck-licensed-to-drive-itself-on-highways/ Regards, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: UK's 1000hp 1975 Electric Enfield (v)
I thought that torque was calculated/measured at the wheels and to get the highest number, it is typically in 1st gear, so I would not expect that they can break tires loose on a dragstrip if they launch in 4th gear even with a standard diff, let alone with 1:1 diff, because I expect that torque was measured in 1st gear, no? 100 MPH is 44.7 meters per second, with tires that are 24 dia (61cm) the RPM of the wheels is 1400 at 100MPH, you would not want to gear your car to have the motor lugging that low at 100MPH! (unless you are actually doing a speed closer to 1000MPH) Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 10:16 AM To: brucedp5; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: UK's 1000hp 1975 Electric Enfield (v) On May 13, 2015, at 12:12 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Later in the weekend, the team turned up the wick and the car sprinted through the quarter mile in 12.56 seconds at 101.43 mph. Quite respectable in and of itself, and most impressive in a car that started life as the antithesis of fast! The batteries pack delivers 370 volts, 600 kilowatts, more than 2000 amps, 1003hp, and 1200 lb-ft of torque - all while weighing less than 360 lbs. 370 V * 2000 A = 740 kW, not 600 kW, and that's going to work out to be much closer to about the same numeric value for horsepower rather than 1003, so something isn't adding up. Very lightweight, though, for that much power. Be nice to know the Ah / kWh capacity...and the source and price Regardless, in a vehicle that weighs under 2,000 pounds, he's got waay more power than he'll ever actually be able to put to the ground -- exactly the kind of problem you want in drag racing. Just taking that 1200 lb-ft of torque at face value...that's well over half the weight of the car, meaning that, assuming tires roughly 24 in diameter (give or take), even with no gear reduction (fourth gear equivalent and a 1:1 rear differential) he can _still_ break the tires loose. Insane! His big challenge is traction, including weight and balance management (especially getting the weight to shift to the rear axle without going over backwards) since he's not likely to be able to do much more with the tires. Seems like a really fun project, and I bet it's even more fun to drive! b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: I've now heard all the talk about 5 minute quick charging batteries and the 1 megawatt per car requirement. It's time to stop the madness. As much as I love Tesla all their models are big energy pigs. 85KW! Yes much better than a gas car of any size but when there are vehicles that can go further on less energy why not use efficiency and not sheer battery size to attain your goal... I think the engineers need to put their thinking caps on, reduce the weight of every vehicle, make the CD of all new vehicles .16 or so and stop making these energy hogs. Efficiency not Mega Watts. I agree completely. I don't see it as engineer's fault; they just build what their bosses say they want. And their bosses say to build what they think consumers want. Many of today's problems stem from our love of brute-force solutions. It seems that society has developed a warped sense of beauty. In the past: We ascribe beauty to that which is simple, with no superfluous parts; which exactly answers its end; which stands related to all things, and is the mean of many extremes. Ralph Waldo Emerson But today, many consider beauty to mean more, More, MORE! Bigger, faster, more complex, more parts, more features (regardless of whether they will ever be used)... the *extreme* in everything. So the Tesla is a wonderful car. Extreme in everything; speed, range, features... and price. It's great for the top 1%, but it won't do anything for the vast majority of drivers on the road, or for society in general. I believe in Amory Lovins' hypercar vision. Make cars that are half the weight, and you can halve everything else as well. Half the materials, so it's cheaper. Half the energy needed to move it down the road, so half the half the environmental impact. Use technology, not brute force, to make it stronger and safer. Simplify, so it's easier to fix and lasts longer. The Stella is a great example. So was the GM EV1 (though a bit on the heavy side). The Solectria Sunrise EV2 that I'm working on now is also going in this direction. A full-size 4-seat car that only weighs 1600 lbs, still passed NHTSA crash testing, and was doing 300 miles on a 25 KWH pack 20 years ago! -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
I've now heard all the talk about 5 minute quick charging batteries and the 1 megawatt per car requirement. It's time to stop the madness. As much as I love Tesla all their models are big energy pigs. 85KW! Yes much better than a gas car of any size but when there are vehicles that can go further on less energy why not use efficiency and not sheer battery size to attain your goal. Stella the electric car that won the Cruiser Class of the World Solar Challenge has a 16kw pack that can take the car 375 miles with no sunlight. Using the solar panels it can go further and faster. Engineers seem to forget that it's not the range that hurts electric cars but the charging time. If you reduce the pack size charging times will lessen just by size requiring less than MW consumption. Think of a ten stall quick charging station. That might require 10mw when fully deployed. Then look at Stella at a Chademo site. About 20 minutes to 80 percent. With those new batteries I couldn't tell you but very quick and it wouldn't need mega watt levels of electricity. So I think the engineers need to put their thinking caps on, reduce the weight of every vehicle, make the CD of all new vehicles .16 or so and stop making these energy hogs. Efficiency not Mega Watts. Lawrence RhodesStella Solar Powered Car | | | | | | | | | | | Stella Solar Powered CarSarah Buhr goes for a ride in the the Stella, the first four seater solar powered car. on the TCTV Newsshow from TechCrunch TV | | | | View on techcrunch.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/0855d981/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
On 05/13/2015 10:37 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: I've now heard all the talk about 5 minute quick charging batteries and the 1 megawatt per car requirement. It's time to stop the madness. As much as I love Tesla all their models are big energy pigs. 85KW! Yes much better than a Tesla has selected a product that they feel matches a market that they think they can succeed in. So far, it looks like they are correct. Think of all the proposed EVs that have not reached production or produced EVs that have failed to meet sales goals. I am about 1500 miles into a trip using SuperChargers almost exclusively. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] C4RJ asks Santa Monica, CA residents protest SMPD's profiling of EV'r
[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Charging-EVr-PD-assaulted-pushed-handcuffed-punched-pepper-sprayed-tp4675150.html
]
http://www.santamonicadispatch.com/2015/05/committee-for-racial-justice-asks-residents-to-protest-smpd-racial-profiling-to-council/
COMMITTEE FOR RACIAL JUSTICE ASKS RESIDENTS TO PROTEST SMPD RACIAL PROFILING
TO COUNCIL
May 13, 2015 by Peggy Clifford
It’s important that we contact Santa Monica’s City Council and bring their
attention to issues around police racial profiling. A sample letter drafted
by the Committee for Racial Justice appears further down in this email. If
you’ve already sent a letter, thank you. If not, you may use the sample
letter below, or you can personalize your own letter — you may use the NBC
news links below as a visual example of how the state is seeing our city.
The following links share news coverage that aired on Thursday on Channel 4
News.We are requesting that you ask our Council the following question: How
is it that in the 11 pm news story we hear that the police response so far
is that they’ve found that “the officers acted within policy” and the
Council has not questioned that policy.
NBC NEWS LINKS
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/video/#!/on-air/as-seen-on/Father-Claims-Police-Used-Excessive-Force/303146481
Story 1 aired at 6 pm on Friday, May 8, NBC Los Angeles (Angie Crouch
reporting)
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/video/#!/on-air/as-seen-on/Man-Claims-Santa-Monica-Police-Made-Rough-Arrest/303161861
Story 2 aired at 11 pm on Friday May 8 on NBC Los Angeles (Robert Kovacik
reporting)
Thanks for any help you can give us in getting out the word that pressure
needs to be put on SM City Council to put the issues of discriminatory
policing and excessive force on their upcoming agenda.
SAMPLE LETTER TO COUNCIL:
Dear Council Member __:
As a member of the Committee for Racial Justice, I want to express my
concern about the alleged police assault on an unarmed African American male
charging his electric vehicle at Virginia Park. Our Committee has requested
that the City Manager remove the SMPD web site press release featuring a mug
shot of the man police pepper sprayed and swept to the ground.
http://santamonicapd.org/Content.aspx?id=52058
The press release vilifies the man arrested and rushed to the hospital, and
is inappropriate, given the SMPD public commitment to thoroughly conduct an
internal investigation into the officers’ behavior. We ask that you weigh
in, as well, and request that the City remove the press release, especially
since all charges have been dropped against this man.
Meanwhile, members of our committee look forward to meeting with Interim
City Manager Elaine Polachek and Police Chief Seabrooks to discuss our
concerns, and appreciate their setting aside time to hear what we have to
say.
The alleged police assault did not occur in isolation but in the context of
police racial-profiling in the Pico neighborhood, where residents have
complained for over a decade about racial discrimination in stop and search
practices, as well as arrests and use of force.
To address these concerns regarding long-standing SMPD racial profiling, the
Committee for Racial Justice requests that City Council members support and
place on the next Council agenda the following:
The City Council instructs the City Manager to hire an outside agency to
gather quantifiable and anecdotal data on SMPD racial profiling, to publish
the data, and to host a forum between the police and the community or a
series of “conversations” at which the results are discussed. These would be
co-sponsored by community groups such as the NAACP, the Committee For Racial
Justice, and other groups working on this issue.
The City Council instructs the Interim City Manager to oversee the
recruitment of volunteer members of underserved communities in Santa Monica
to serve on police recruitment interview panels.
The City Council instructs the City Manager to work with the SMPD Chief, as
well as representatives of underserved communities, to review the training
curriculum that addresses diversity racial profiling, and to review the
repercussions for violations of those guidelines.
To learn more about what other cities are doing to address this issue,
please visit:
http://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/article/230887
We look forward to hearing back from you on whether you are interested in
sponsoring and supporting our agenda proposal.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Sincerely,
committee4racial just...@gmail.com
[© 2015 - Santa Monica Dispatch]
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Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
On May 13, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: So I think the engineers need to put their thinking caps on, reduce the weight of every vehicle, make the CD of all new vehicles .16 or so and stop making these energy hogs. That's definitely where a good deal of engineering effort needs to go, no matter what...but we've also got a bit of a conundrum on our hands. Most EV charging can and should reasonably be expected to be done while the vehicle is parked, especially overnight at home. L1 chargers are today and always will be good enough for that for nearly everybody, and L2 is pretty much guaranteed overkill for nearly all the rest. ...but...unless the per-charge mileage is in the four-digit range, there will be situations where people will want to charge, wherever they happen to be, and they're not going to be happy if it takes more than ten or fifteen minutes. And 15 kWh / 15 minutes is 60 kilowatts...not quite the level of insanity of a megawatt, but still in a range far beyond what you'd ever see in a residential setting. The *real* problem is that I don't think that there's an overlap between what rapid charging is likely to cost and what people are likely to be willing to pay, especially when they're used to paying on the order of $0.10 / kWh at home. And with low demand, the prices would have to be even higher since they won't be spread out over as many customers, driving down demand even further. But without the option for rapid charging, a small but significant minority of the miles people unthinkingly drive today simply can't be done in an electric vehicle, creating a chicken-and-egg problem. That's part of Tesla's marketing brilliance with their own rapid charger network, but I don't know that it's something that can realistically be made universal. Perhaps our best real-world hope is for Tesla to offer universal adapters to their superchargers for about the same price as they charge to upgrade their vehicles to supercharger capability. (Same price because Tesla's price includes their capital and operating expenses for the network, not just whatever is done to the car itself.) Done right, that would allow the minority who need to make road trips in non-Tesla vehicles to do so...and it even opens up the possibility for renting the adapters for rare road trips. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: UK's 1000hp 1975 Electric Enfield (v)
On May 13, 2015, at 10:37 AM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I thought that torque was calculated/measured at the wheels It can be measured anywhere, but is typically specified at the output shaft of the motor (whether electric or ICE) unless otherwise noted, for the simple reason that gearing changes torque. Horsepower can also be measured anywhere, and is generally assumed to be at the motor unless it's specified to be at the wheels. Both figures, of course, depend on engine RPM, and peak value is generally specified even though average torque tells you a lot more about what the engine can do than its peak. If it's at the motor, the torque gets multiplied by whatever the final gear ratio is. The ICE half of my Mustang is going to have a 3.89:1 differential, and the engine will put out a relatively constant 400+ ft-lbs between 3000 and 6000 RPM...which works out to about 1600 ft-pounds at the wheels in fourth gear, and nearly 5000 ft-pounds in first -- again, a problem in a ~3000 pound nose-heavy car, but a good problem to have. When I put a dual AC-35 with ~2.5:1 reduction to a front wheel drive axle into the car in the next phase of the project, all-electric mode should be superior to what the original 260 cu. in. V8 was capable of...and hybrid mode is going to be insane, to use Tesla's word. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] SolaRoad cycle path electricity yield exceeds expectations
Interesting potential source of future EV energy: http://phys.org/news/2015-05-solaroad-path-electricity-yield.html I'm a bit skeptical, though...by its very nature, anything put on the road is going to have to be a lot more durable and therefore expensive than what you'd put on a rooftop. Still, it's definitely a neat idea! b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
You're in a higher echelon, Lawrence. I want my Leaf to morph into a Stella, now! I'm stuck with 350kw/mile in city, translates to 45 miles /16kW. Peri -- Original Message -- From: Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 13-May-15 9:23:37 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way. The iMev is not efficient. Stella goes 375 miles on the same 16kw pack. 55wh per mile is much better than 250 which is what all the steel evs get. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/cdb7009b/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
The iMev is not efficient. Stella goes 375 miles on the same 16kw pack. 55wh per mile is much better than 250 which is what all the steel evs get. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150513/cdb7009b/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] $125k 1923 Milburn Electric Model 27L EV discovered in a Texas barn
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/05/07/pre-war-cars-untouched-for-four-decades-rediscovered-in-a-texas-barn/
Pre-war cars untouched for four decades rediscovered in a Texas barn
By Nick Kirkpatrick May 7 2015
[image
https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2015/05/1923-Milburn-4-1024x680.jpgw=1484
Brunet told Fox News: “In the 1910s and ’20s, companies like Milburn and
Detroit Electric built very competitive electric cars. Milburn had a fleet
of taxis in New York in the late teens and early ’20s. It was a very
successful brand. But in 1924, GM bought the company and dismantled the
factory so they wouldn’t have to compete against the car.” (Motostalgia)
]
Antonio Brunet found an automotive holy grail — five pre-war cars worth
upwards of $500,000 preserved inside a Texas barn.
“It’s the Holy Grail for a car guy,” Brunet told Fox News. Brunet, the
chairman and founder of Motostalgia Auctions in Austin, Tex., was tipped off
to the cars stored only seven miles from his shop. The pre-war cars — up for
auction in June — sat untouched for over 40 years. He told Fox News,
“Opening the doors, seeing the cars covered in dust, untouched for years …
It’s like you’re in a time machine.”
The cars ended up in the barn in the early 1970s when their owner moved to
Texas from Wisconsin. According to Brunet, the owner, a local man named Jack
who doesn’t want his last name publicized, had always wanted to fix up the
cars but never had the time or money. It was tough for Jack to put the cars
up for auction but he agreed on the condition that Brunet would get them
running again.
“Jack’s dream was to see them back on the road,” Brunet told Fox News. “So
by giving us the honor of putting them in our auction, we promised to bring
them back to life.” ...
1923 Milburn Electric Model 27L
Estimate: $90,000 – $125,000 ...
[© washingtonpost.com]
...
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/slideshow/Five-pre-war-era-cars-found-in-Austin-barn-109199/photo-7936211.php
Five pre-war cars found in Austin barn
May 6, 2015 |By Tyler White
...
http://driving.ca/cadillac/auto-news/news/at-least-70-worth-of-barn-find-classics-going-up-for-auction
Five 'barn find' classic cars going up for auction
[20150507] Along with ... other classics will be auctioned off, including a
1923 Milburn Electric Model 27L ...
...
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/auction/milburn/electric/1727869.html
1923 Milburn Electric Model 27L - Hemmings Motor News
Classic 1923 Milburn Electric Model 27L offered for auction #1727869.
Austin, Texas. To be auctioned on June 12, 2015 at Motostalgia's
Indianapolis Brickyard ...
Auction: Jun 11, 2015 to Jun 12, 2015 Location:Austin, Texas 78726
Condition: Project
http://www.evalbum.com/348
1920 Milburn Light Electric Model 27L
...
[dated]
http://www.milburn.us/
Milburn Light Electric
Feb 14, 2013 ... Welcome to the website for Milburn Electric antique
automobiles ... Electric automobiles, which were produced for model years
1915 to 1923. ... With the Model 27L cars (S/N 2-900-7 and after), the S/N
plate is an oval brass ...
...
[video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCfJu_q3kss
Milburn Model 27L Light Electric Car - 3:30
Nov 5, 2009 - 4 min - Uploaded by Thayer School of Engineering at Dartmouth
After being on exhibit at Thayer School of Engineering at Dartmouth since
2007, the 1923 ...
]
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[EVDL] EVLN: Aussies do it right EVSE @all 60 apt parking spots
http://www.thefifthestate.com.au/business/innovators-fringe-elements/electric-car-charging-or-no-parking-at-all-piccolos-take-on-the-green-agenda/73664 Electric car charging or no parking at all – Piccolo’s take on the green agenda Willow Aliento | 7 May 2015 [images http://www.thefifthestate.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Elwood-House.jpg Elwood House http://www.thefifthestate.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Upper-House-on-Swanston-St-380x537.jpg Upper House on Swanston St, Melbourne ] The owner-occupier residential market has a much greater appreciation of sustainable design than the investor sector, according to Melbourne-based developer Michael Piccolo. His company’s most recent project, Elwood House, is taking up a new angle on green initiatives, with electric car charging points being installed for all 60 parking bays. Piccolo told The Fifth Estate this was first Melbourne multi-residential development to install the charging infrastructure throughout. The move was inspired by a test drive of a Tesla electric car, and by the growing penetration of electric vehicles in California. He believes it is inevitable their Australian market share will soar. “To retrofit the charging infrastructure would be expensive. I thought it was important to have a sense of responsibility to people in terms of future-proofing,” Piccolo says. The charge points are connected back to the individual electricity meters in each apartment. Other sustainability aspects include solar thermal to reduce the energy consumption of the central gas hot water system, double-glazing throughout, and a building envelope comprising brick and insitu concrete, which creates thermal mass and does not require any paint or other finishes. All of the ensuite bathrooms have been designed with an operable door leading to a small balcony to reduce the need to use the mechanical ventilation, LED lighting has been installed throughout, and a rainwater harvesting system with up to 18,000 litres of storage is plumbed to provide the water for all toilet flushing and landscape and planter box irrigation. “What we are also going to do is explore solar power provision for all common areas,” Piccolo says. The apartments range from a six star NatHERS energy rating to a maximum of 7.8 stars, according to the project’s sustainability consultant, Co-Perform principal Paul Graham. Owner-occupiers more open to efficiency measures He also observes that residential projects are more likely to target sustainability objectives when they are aiming at the owner-occupier segment. Energy efficiency, Graham says, is particularly a focus as it reduces long-term running costs. He says the goal on projects he works on is always to do better than the minimum code requirement for energy, and also to achieve better than the water sensitive urban design requirements set by Melbourne Water and that form part of local councils’ planning policies. Sustainability not difficult, but investor market slow to respond Piccolo says adding sustainability to a development is “not that difficult”. “The owner-occupiers appreciate it. But 80 per cent of apartments being built in Melbourne today are for the investment market, and the investment market doesn’t appreciate it.” The project has no common amenities. Instead, each apartment has a private outdoor terrace of at least 25 square metres, and interior sizing is also bucking the trend towards smaller dwellings with one-bedroom apartments between 60 sq m and 80 sq m. “In the market today, luxury is providing space.” The lack of common amenities is compensated for by the location, which Graham says has a walk score of 84, with the beach, cycle paths, retail and parks in the immediate vicinity. Dedicated cycle parking for up to 20 bikes is being installed in the parking area, and there is additional cycle storage space for each apartment. Graham says minimising volatile organic compounds is being strongly targeted in the specifications. Stone flooring is being used throughout living and common areas, and pure wool carpets for bedrooms. Paints and sealants are also required to be low VOC. “If anyone is serious about sustainability, they are thinking about VOCs,” Graham says. Piccolo says the green lens is also being applied to the project’s marketing display suite, which is currently located on the site. “We are looking at recycling it and selling it. We have had a lot of offers from people who want to set it up as a holiday home or retreat. Typically, marketing display suites are simply demolished and become waste,” Piccolo says. He says his company has been implementing a variety of sustainability initiatives over the years, with thermal insulation and rainwater storage two commonly used approaches. No parking has paid off At Upper House on Swanston Street in Carlton, a 17-storey multi-residential project with ground floor retail, there is zero provision of parking for any of the 110 apartments. “We took a
[EVDL] EVLN: UK's 1000hp 1975 Electric Enfield (v)
http://ecomento.com/2015/05/07/enfield-electric-1975-1000-horsepower-car/
Meet the 1000 horsepower 1975 Enfield electric (w/video)
May 7, 2015 |
[video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o6igJGsBoM
Flux Capacitor - 500+ hp Electric Enfield 8000 - 12.62 @ 101.65 mph
VeeDubRacing Apr 26, 2015
2015 Big Bang at Santa Pod Raceway
Jonny Smith in the Adrian Flux sponsored Flux Capacitor Electric Car. It is
a 1974 Enfield 8000 that ...
image
http://cdn.ecomento.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/1975-Enfield-electric-car-2.jpg
Enfield 8000 from the 1970s
]
Once upon a time, hot rodders talked about cubic inches and carburetors.
Today, they talk about volts, amps and kilowatt-hours. One such fellow is
Jonny Smith, a Brit who goes by the name CarPervert on Twitter.
Jonny was on the hunt for a tiny electric car from the 70’s called the
Enfield E8000 ECC. It came from the factory on the Isle of Wight with an 8
horsepower electric motor and a range of about 40 miles using a bank of
conventional lead/acid deep discharge batteries. He found the car he wanted
in Wales and set about converting it to a drag racer.
Smith was determined to make it into a 1000 horsepower 1975 Enfield. His
inspiration was John Wayland’s famous White Zombie – a lowly Datsun 1200
that was converted into a ferocious drag racer in Oregon. In an interesting
twist, that same car was also the inspiration for the Zombie 222 electric
Mustang we wrote about a few weeks ago.
Today, the car that started life as a modest electric runabout sports a
custom-built battery pack made up of 144 Kokam lithium-ion cells and
assembled by British firm Hyperdrive. The batteries are normally used to run
the starters and mini-guns in a Bell AH1 SuperCobra attack helicopter.
The batteries pack delivers 370 volts, 600 kilowatts, more than 2000 amps,
1003hp, and 1200 lb-ft of torque – all while weighing less than 360 lbs.
Those are the kind of numbers that bring tears to the eyes of modern day hot
rodders.
All that electricity goes to power two 9? Current Racing motors – modified
Netgain Warp 9? series wound direct current motors – which turn street legal
drag racing tires mounted on massive (for an Enfield) 14×7 Wolfrace mag
wheels harvested from a cast-off 1970 Pontiac TransAm.
Jonny Smith, aka CarPervert, named his micro-race Flux Capacitor, in honor
of the iconic DeLorean featured in the movie Back To The Future. During its
first race weekend, his team kept things turned down a bit. After all, 1003
horsepower in a car barely 8 feet long could be a bit scary. “I have to say
it felt shockingly good,” says Smith. “The twin 9? Current Racing motors
were strong, the coupling and 6? propshaft held, as did the Hyperdrive
battery pack, with its twinkling LED lit battery management system.”
Later in the weekend, the team turned up the wick and the car sprinted
through the quarter mile in 12.56 seconds at 101.43 mph. That’s faster than
the original 2010 Tesla Roadster. “Mid 12s makes it faster than any
road-going production EV bar Tesla’s P85D – which is my next benchmark to
beat,” Jonny said. “That means running 11s.”
Can the Flux Capacitor run more than a second quicker? Look at it this way:
The Enfield now weighs under 2000 lbs; the Tesla is around 5000 lbs. The
Enfield has 1003 horsepower; the Tesla about 700. So far, the Flux Capacitor
has been running only 70% of its maximum power. What do you think will
happen when all of its full potential is unleashed?
[© ecomento.com]
For EVLN posts use:
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http://time.com/3856522/bill-nye-science-guy-reddit-questions/
billnye.com praises Powerwall wants wrist-device-called driverless-
etaxi-cities cleaner,quieter,nil-wrecks
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/local/energy-expert-2030-cars-will-be-self-driving-elect/nmFX2/
http://www.newswiretoday.com/news/152552/
Automakers Shift Plugins Towards 6kw Onboard Chargers
http://www.gizmag.com/electric-motorcycles-scooters-government-subsidy-uk/37309/
UK government to subsidize electric two-wheelers
http://www.shanghaidaily.com/metro/society/Street-cleaner-killed-by-drunk-driver/shdaily.shtml
EV-driving street-cleaner Xu-Yifeng killed by drunk-ice-driver @4:25a
http://english.eastday.com/auto/eastday/metro/u1ai8487340.html
http://www.sequimgazette.com/business/301725931.html
L2 SCH EVSE @Sequim, WA Co-op Farm Garden True Value store
+
EVLN: SWIFT rolls out Belgium's largest BMW i3-rex pih fleet
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[EVDL] EVLN: SWIFT rolls out Belgium's largest i3-rex pih fleet
http://evfleetworld.co.uk/news/2015/May/SWIFT-rolls-out-Belgiums-largest-BMW-i3-fleet/0438019730
SWIFT rolls out Belgium's largest BMW i3 fleet
by Alex Grant 07 May 2015
[image
http://media.comcar.co.uk/article/2015/May/image/0438019730-5606-201505_P90182815_zoom_orig_jpg-320.jpg
The fleet is claimed to be the largest deployment of BMW i3s in Belgium The
fleet is claimed to be the largest deployment of BMW i3s in Belgium
]
Financial messaging specialist SWIFT has deployed the largest fleet of BMW
i3 electric cars in Belgium, leasing 21 with the help of Alphabet.
The cars join SWIFT’s 950-strong fleet, and are supported by a charging
solution supplied by utility company Electrabel. There are 21 charging
points at SWIFT’s headquarters, and 19 at participating employees’ homes.
SWIFT says the i3s, all of which are range-extender models, were chosen for
their ability to offer long-distance travel when needed. Employees can also
access a conventionally-powered vehicle for 30 days per year.
Caroline Ceustermans, SWIFT’s Fleet Manager, said: Our mobility plan is
constantly evolving: this new initiative allows employees with a relevant
driving profile to have a direct positive impact on our overall emission
level. It will also ensure that more electric vehicles will be chosen in the
future.”
Marc Vandenbergh, Director of Sales Marketing at Alphabet, added: It
proves that AlphaElectric really works as a total concept to integrate
alternative engines into existing company fleets, while still being
user-friendly. For more comfort drivers can rely on Alphabet for a
traditional car during e.g. their holiday periods. Alphabet is also there to
assist in operational services or assistance related to their lease
vehicle, says
[© evfleetworld.co.uk]
For EVLN posts use:
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http://time.com/3856522/bill-nye-science-guy-reddit-questions/
billnye.com praises Powerwall wants wrist-device-called driverless-
etaxi-cities cleaner,quieter,nil-wrecks
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/local/energy-expert-2030-cars-will-be-self-driving-elect/nmFX2/
http://www.newswiretoday.com/news/152552/
Automakers Shift Plugins Towards 6kw Onboard Chargers
http://www.gizmag.com/electric-motorcycles-scooters-government-subsidy-uk/37309/
UK government to subsidize electric two-wheelers
http://www.shanghaidaily.com/metro/society/Street-cleaner-killed-by-drunk-driver/shdaily.shtml
EV-driving street-cleaner Xu-Yifeng killed by drunk-ice-driver @4:25a
http://english.eastday.com/auto/eastday/metro/u1ai8487340.html
http://www.sequimgazette.com/business/301725931.html
L2 SCH EVSE @Sequim, WA Co-op Farm Garden True Value store
+
EVLN: UK's 1000hp 1975 Electric Enfield (v)
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[EVDL] Google sez self-driving EVs don't cause accidents pesky humans do
'Google's prototype self-driving EV is slated for public tests in CA' http://www.eweek.com/mobile/google-self-driving-cars-dont-cause-accidents-company-says.html Google Self-Driving Cars Don't Cause Accidents, Company Says By Jaikumar Vijayan | 2015-05-12 [image http://www.eweek.com/imagesvr_ce/7788/290x195ConnectedCar.jpg Google self-driving cars ] The cars have been involved in 11 minor collisions in six years, and all the accidents happened when a human driver was behind the wheel, according to Google. Google self-driving cars have been involved in 11 collisions over the six years and the 1.7 million miles the company has been testing the vehicles. All of the accidents were minor, caused no injuries and resulted when a human driver was behind the wheel, Chris Urmson, director of Google's self-driving car program wrote in a blog post on Medium. Not once was the self-driving car the cause of the accident, Urmson said. Earlier, the Associated Press had reported that Google's autonomous cars had been involved in at least three fender benders in California since last September when a new state law went into effect requiring all organizations testing autonomous vehicles on California public roads to report accidents. Google is one of several companies testing self-driving vehicles in California. Others include Delphi, Tesla, Audi, Daimler Benz and Nissan. The companies are working on developing cars that will one day be capable of operating on public roads in an autonomous fashion with very little to no human involvement. The goal is to improve vehicle safety with technologies that help remove blind spots, detect objects at greater distances and respond to dangerous situations much faster than human drivers. Google has claimed that its autonomous vehicles are capable of detecting objects two football fields away in all directions. Google's testing has mostly involved Lexus SUVs equipped with autonomous vehicle technology and basic controls for a human driver in situations where the technology is unable to complete an operation safely for any reason, AP said in its report. According to Urmson, Google currently has a fleet of 20+ self-driving cars and a team of drivers testing the vehicles. The cars have self-driven over 1 million miles of the 1.7 million miles in testing that Google has performed so far. Google last September also released a prototype of a fully functional all-electric, self-driving car that is slated for public tests in California later this year. Google plans to build about 100 of the two-seat vehicles, none of which will has a steering wheel, accelerator or brake pedal. During the test phase at least, Google's prototype vehicle will have a maximum speed of 25 miles per hour. The company hopes to be able to get permits to test these cars in California this year. In his blog post, Urmson wrote that one of the keys to understanding the safety capabilities of autonomous vehicles is to have a baseline of accident activity on typical suburban streets. Because many accidents do not make it to official statistics, it is important to get a sense for how often collisions happen as the result of other drivers, Even when our software and sensors can detect a sticky situation and take action earlier and faster than an alert human driver, sometimes we won't be able to overcome the realities of speed and distance, Urmson noted. Sometimes, we'll get hit just waiting for a light to change. In fact, seven of Google's 11 collisions resulted from people hitting its autonomous cars from behind, mainly at traffic lights. Google's vehicles have also been side-swiped a couple of times and hit once by a car rolling through a stop sign, Urmson wrote. Not surprisingly, most of the minor collisions that Google reported happened on city streets. Prior to its tests in California, Google conducted similar tests in Nevada as well. In May 2012, it became the first company in the United States to be issued a license for autonomous vehicle testing by a state department of motor vehicles. [© eweek.com] http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83517045/ Humans at fault in self-driving car crashes Jerry Hirsch, Joseph Serna May 12, 2015 [image / Eric Risberg / Associated Press http://www.trbimg.com/img-555159c2/turbine/la-fi-self-driving-car-accidents-20150511-001/ Of the nearly 50 self-driving cars rolling around California roads and highways, four have gotten into accidents since September. ] The riskiest thing about self-driving vehicles may turn out to be human drivers. Four of the nearly 50 self-driving cars undergoing tests on California roads since September, when the state began issuing permits to auto companies, have crashed. But the cars, three owned by Google and one by Delphi, were in collisions caused by human error. Driver inattention was behind the collisions involving the Google cars, said Katelin Jabbari, a spokeswoman for the tech giant, which is developing a fleet of
Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.
To give an illustration of how high the need is for fast charging: I have at least 3 L2 chargers since 2 years and I have not installed any of them yet, since overnight L1 charging is more than I need for my daily driving needs. Of course, I plan to install at least one L2 station later this year when I am pulling wire from the service panel anyway to a small load center in my garage, so I will have an AC disconnect for the solar inverter and the presence of a load center allows me to add an RV style NEMA 14-50 outlet to plug in a L2 charger. Any time that I come home with batteries depleted and still needing to make a long trip, well - those times I will hop into the Prius. But I rarely drive the Prius and I do use my EV truck on a daily basis, so that should tell you a bit about the sufficiency of L1 charging. P.S. and yes, I occasionally need to get creative with charging while I am running about, but the great thing about L1 is that every single house, office, school and other meeting place is actually equipped with these outlet that allows recharging using a simple 100ft extension cord. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Jamie K via EV Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 12:45 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way. The assumption of what nearly everyone needs in a day is based on averages, right? Averages are built from data ranging from minimums to maximums. But real range needs are based on maximums. So it would be erroneous to assume that averages define the actual range needs of most people. Further, it matters how often people need to hop in the car and run an errand, handle an emergency or drive to the next town. Faster L2 charging frees up the car for more trips in a day, and L3 opens the portal to nearby intercity trips. Supercharging opens the portal to interstate trips. All of these charging options make an EV that much more practical. For the Volt there's a 300 mile generator included, so it's OK to design for most trips. But for a BEV, the driver must consider the maximum trip required or have another vehicle to pick up that slack. Cheers, -Jamie On 5/13/15 1:08 PM, Ben Goren wrote: On May 13, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Ben, on the subject of L1 chargers being good enough for nearly everybody and L2 being overkill, I would ask based on what data? Sorry...I had in mind overnight home charging, with the assumption that the 20 kWh you get from 12 hours @ 110V / 15A is going to be good enough for as many miles as nearly everybody is going to need in a day, especially given the types of efficiency figures we're headed towards and that Lawrence was advocating. At 250 Wh / mile, that's 80 miles. Even at 500 Wh / mile, that's still 40 miles, the range that Chevy targeted for the Volt as almost good enough for 100% electric for almost everybody. Yes, there will be exceptions...but how many people regularly drive more than 40 miles in a day, and, of those, how many are going to want to do so in an EV that's only doing 500 Wh / mile? Even more important...how many people are going to want to spend lots of extra money on an at-home fast charger if overnight L1 charging always leaves them with 80 miles more in the morning than they had at the end of the day before? b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
