Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas too!)
(Corrections requested) With convenience stores (7-11, etc.) trying to be gas stations, and gas stations trying to be convenience stores, whatever pump you pull up to, the business draws power and people. 24 hour stations are the normal here and are located just off a highway (101 or 280). Customers range from those with less cash on hand that only buy enough to get home (5 minutes at the pump), to those with large (puffy) trucks or SUVs that swallow 30+ gallons (15 minutes at the pump). (Average: 10 minutes at the pump for each customer). Midnight to 6 the customer count is less. Using a station I see when going to my local VA hospital as an example http://www.sanfrangasprices.com/map_gas_prices.aspx?z=11&lat=37.462992015873&long=-122.224724292755&sid=15611&tl=All it has two pumps at each of two islands, each pump can handle a customer on each side for a total of 8 customers at a time (they are usually always in use) https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRsYDkH1F85Z2d7raR2yj45ADCgKmbnAkN6RDGgzrvxv-CFeJaj8w Plus there is power drawn for the mini convenience store as well as two fully functional ice repair-smog bays, each with their own car lifts http://www.kings76.com/var/m_8/89/891/216858/CACHED_288910-990-500.jpg I would guesstimate that the station has a 208VAC 100A circuit and in a 24 hour period is on average only using 50% of its capacity: 208VAC * 100A * .8 * .5 * 24hours = 199.680kWh per day. 8 customers every 10 minutes figuring they have half as many customers from midnight to 6am: 8 * 6 * 24hours * .75 = 864 So 200kWh used, serving 864 customers in a 24 hour period. 200kWh / 864 = 0.23kwh per customer in a 24 hour period. For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: http://evdl.org/evln/ {brucedp.150m.com} -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/UK-grid-too-weak-for-34M-EVs-not-when-we-stop-pumping-gas-too-tp4679031p4679074.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas too!)
That would be interesting information. I'll take a stab at an answer, >>>> based on this EIA graph: >>>> >>>> http://www.eia.gov/beta/MER/index.cfm?tbl=T02.01#/?f=A&start=21 >>>> >>>> Overall, it shows that commercial uses about 80% the amount of >>>> residential (this is a visual interpretation). The figure, from EIA, for >>>> residential is 11MwH per year. So, let's say the average commercial >>>> location uses 8.8MwH per year. >>>> >>>> https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3 >>>> >>>> Now for the EVs: If the average EV uses 300wH = .3KwH (including >>>> accessories, charging losses, etc.) per mile and the average driver goes >>>> 2 miles per year, that's 6MwH of charging per year. >>>> >>>> So, based on averages and some EV assumptions, the gas station uses >>>> enough electricy to charge somewhere between 1 and 2 EVs. >>>> >>>> Peri >>>> >>>> -- Original Message -- >>>> From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" >>>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" >>>> Sent: 04-Dec-15 6:47:23 AM >>>> Subject: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping >>>> gas too!) >>>> >>>>>> : MP Amber Rudd sez the UK grid too weak for 34M EVs >>>>>> BRITAIN’S electric car revolution could trigger blackouts by overloading >>>>>> our power network, senior Tories fear. >>>>> >>>>> Typical right wing ignorance. >>>>> >>>>> What happens when 50% of cars are EV's. Then only 50% of the gas >>>>> stations >>>>> remain operating. How much ELECTRICITY does a gas station consume >>>>> My >>>>> wild a$$ guess is maybe the same as what it takes to charge 50 EV's. Now >>>>> add up all the ELECTRIC savings by closing all those gas stations, and >>>>> turning off half the gasoline pipelines, and half of the gasoline >>>>> distribution system, and turning off HALF of all the electricity consumed >>>>> pumping gas ouit of the ground, etc, and I bet it’s a WASH! >>>>> >>>>> Tonight I'm going to drop by my neighborhood gas station and see if the >>>>> owner will tell me his electric bill and even better, if he will tell me >>>>> how >>>>> many cars he serves. I DOUBT he will tell me anything about the number >>>>> of >>>>> cars and the amount of gas since he is in EXTREME competition with the >>>>> statinon across the road, but maybe he will reveal the electric bill. >>>>> >>>>> But we need this number. GO get your local number and lets compare >>>>> notes. >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> --- >> >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151205/727b3313/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas too!)
I am guessing that there is less brand loyalty for convenience stores than for gas stations. At the very least there will be consolidation among convenience stores. I cannot imagine the market supporting four convenience stores within a block of each other. But more importantly, these convenience stores are only convenient because people have to stop for gas. If people no longer need to stop the market will consolidate and many will go away. https://www.google.com/maps/search/gas+stations/@33.5239679,-112.1133195,17.25z -Brandon On 12/05/2015 10:00 PM, Peri Hartman wrote: > Why would they go away? People don't go to convenience stores to buy > gas. Certainly buying gas encourages buying something inside but the > demand for convenience shopping was around long before service station > morphed into convenience stores with gas pumps. > > Peri > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Brandon Hines via EV" > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" > Sent: 05-Dec-15 7:22:03 PM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop > pumping gas too!) > >> If people primarily charge at home then wouldn't most convenience stores >> go away? >> >> Brandon >> >> On 12/05/2015 11:44 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: >>> That's great info, Tom! >>> >>> I think the convenience store aspect would remain, so just dividing >>> your numbers by four might be more realistic. That's still 250-300 or >>> so miles per day EV equivalent. Amazing! >>> >>> It would be good to corroborate this data. I'm hoping that this store >>> is an anomaly. >>> >>> Peri >>> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> From: "Tom Keenan" >>> To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion >>> List" >>> Sent: 05-Dec-15 9:36:12 AM >>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop >>> pumping gas too!) >>> About two years ago, I asked a gas station/convenience store owner what the normal amounts of electricity they used were, and he said about 350 kWh in summer, and 250 kWh in the winter. (Natural gas heating). I asked if this was for an entire month, and me said no, that was the amount used for a single day! He showed his power bill as proof. I was quite surprised, as my house uses roughly that amount per month. Granted, most of the energy was used for beverage and food coolers (about a dozen) and air conditioning. He estimated that the eight gasoline and two diesel dispensers and lift pumps was about a quarter of the total energy use for his station. If one considers this a typical store/gas station, and it serves perhaps 2,000 vehicles a day, each vehicle's share of energy is between 125 and 175 Watt-hours (0.125 to 0.175 kWh) when they fuel up. This takes into account their 'use' of powering the store, whether they buy soda and cigarettes or not. Obviously, energy used at a gas station is only a small part of the equation- extraction, transport, and refining of crude oil use vastly more amounts of energy in the whole petroleum cycle. The total energy used per vehicle would need to include that power used as well. Thought of another way, if the station were to go away (due to customer attrition) there would be an additional 250 to 350 kWh available per day for the grid to power plug-in vehicles. At 250 Wh/mi, that would translate to 1,000 to 1,400 miles per day of electric driving. Or enough miles/power to satisfy about 25 to 35 EVs doing forty-mile (round trip) commutes. The gas station attrition model would appear to need to eliminate about 2,000 ICE vehicles to shut down one gas station. Feel free to check my math - done on an iPhone... Tom Keenan > On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV > wrote: > > That would be interesting information. I'll take a stab at an > answer, based on this EIA graph: > > http://www.eia.gov/beta/MER/index.cfm?tbl=T02.01#/?f=A&start=21 > > Overall, it shows that commercial uses about 80% the amount of > residential (this is a visual interpretation). The figure, from > EIA, for residential is 11MwH per year. So, let's say the average > commercial location uses 8.8MwH per year. > > https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3 > > Now for the EVs: If the average EV uses 300wH = .3KwH (including > accessories, charging losses, etc.) per mile and the average driver > goes 2 miles per year, that's 6MwH of charging per year. > > So, based on averages and some EV assumptions, the gas station uses > enough electricy to charge somewhere between 1 and 2 EVs. > > Peri > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas too!)
Why would they go away? People don't go to convenience stores to buy gas. Certainly buying gas encourages buying something inside but the demand for convenience shopping was around long before service station morphed into convenience stores with gas pumps. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Brandon Hines via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 05-Dec-15 7:22:03 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas too!) If people primarily charge at home then wouldn't most convenience stores go away? Brandon On 12/05/2015 11:44 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: That's great info, Tom! I think the convenience store aspect would remain, so just dividing your numbers by four might be more realistic. That's still 250-300 or so miles per day EV equivalent. Amazing! It would be good to corroborate this data. I'm hoping that this store is an anomaly. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Tom Keenan" To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 05-Dec-15 9:36:12 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas too!) About two years ago, I asked a gas station/convenience store owner what the normal amounts of electricity they used were, and he said about 350 kWh in summer, and 250 kWh in the winter. (Natural gas heating). I asked if this was for an entire month, and me said no, that was the amount used for a single day! He showed his power bill as proof. I was quite surprised, as my house uses roughly that amount per month. Granted, most of the energy was used for beverage and food coolers (about a dozen) and air conditioning. He estimated that the eight gasoline and two diesel dispensers and lift pumps was about a quarter of the total energy use for his station. If one considers this a typical store/gas station, and it serves perhaps 2,000 vehicles a day, each vehicle's share of energy is between 125 and 175 Watt-hours (0.125 to 0.175 kWh) when they fuel up. This takes into account their 'use' of powering the store, whether they buy soda and cigarettes or not. Obviously, energy used at a gas station is only a small part of the equation- extraction, transport, and refining of crude oil use vastly more amounts of energy in the whole petroleum cycle. The total energy used per vehicle would need to include that power used as well. Thought of another way, if the station were to go away (due to customer attrition) there would be an additional 250 to 350 kWh available per day for the grid to power plug-in vehicles. At 250 Wh/mi, that would translate to 1,000 to 1,400 miles per day of electric driving. Or enough miles/power to satisfy about 25 to 35 EVs doing forty-mile (round trip) commutes. The gas station attrition model would appear to need to eliminate about 2,000 ICE vehicles to shut down one gas station. Feel free to check my math - done on an iPhone... Tom Keenan On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: That would be interesting information. I'll take a stab at an answer, based on this EIA graph: http://www.eia.gov/beta/MER/index.cfm?tbl=T02.01#/?f=A&start=21 Overall, it shows that commercial uses about 80% the amount of residential (this is a visual interpretation). The figure, from EIA, for residential is 11MwH per year. So, let's say the average commercial location uses 8.8MwH per year. https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3 Now for the EVs: If the average EV uses 300wH = .3KwH (including accessories, charging losses, etc.) per mile and the average driver goes 2 miles per year, that's 6MwH of charging per year. So, based on averages and some EV assumptions, the gas station uses enough electricy to charge somewhere between 1 and 2 EVs. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 04-Dec-15 6:47:23 AM Subject: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas too!) : MP Amber Rudd sez the UK grid too weak for 34M EVs BRITAIN’S electric car revolution could trigger blackouts by overloading our power network, senior Tories fear. Typical right wing ignorance. What happens when 50% of cars are EV's. Then only 50% of the gas stations remain operating. How much ELECTRICITY does a gas station consume My wild a$$ guess is maybe the same as what it takes to charge 50 EV's. Now add up all the ELECTRIC savings by closing all those gas stations, and turning off half the gasoline pipelines, and half of the gasoline distribution system, and turning off HALF of all the electricity consumed pumping gas ouit of the ground, etc, and I bet it’s a WASH! Tonight I'm going to drop by my neighborhood gas station and see if the owner will tell me his electric bill and even better, if he will tell me how many cars he ser
Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas too!)
If people primarily charge at home then wouldn't most convenience stores go away? Brandon On 12/05/2015 11:44 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > That's great info, Tom! > > I think the convenience store aspect would remain, so just dividing > your numbers by four might be more realistic. That's still 250-300 or > so miles per day EV equivalent. Amazing! > > It would be good to corroborate this data. I'm hoping that this store > is an anomaly. > > Peri > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Tom Keenan" > To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion > List" > Sent: 05-Dec-15 9:36:12 AM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop > pumping gas too!) > >> About two years ago, I asked a gas station/convenience store owner >> what the normal amounts of electricity they used were, and he said >> about 350 kWh in summer, and 250 kWh in the winter. (Natural gas >> heating). I asked if this was for an entire month, and me said no, >> that was the amount used for a single day! He showed his power bill >> as proof. I was quite surprised, as my house uses roughly that >> amount per month. >> >> Granted, most of the energy was used for beverage and food coolers >> (about a dozen) and air conditioning. He estimated that the eight >> gasoline and two diesel dispensers and lift pumps was about a quarter >> of the total energy use for his station. >> >> If one considers this a typical store/gas station, and it serves >> perhaps 2,000 vehicles a day, each vehicle's share of energy is >> between 125 and 175 Watt-hours >> (0.125 to 0.175 kWh) when they fuel up. This takes into account >> their 'use' of powering the store, whether they buy soda and >> cigarettes or not. >> >> Obviously, energy used at a gas station is only a small part of the >> equation- extraction, transport, and refining of crude oil use vastly >> more amounts of energy in the whole petroleum cycle. The total >> energy used per vehicle would need to include that power used as well. >> >> Thought of another way, if the station were to go away (due to >> customer attrition) there would be an additional 250 to 350 kWh >> available per day for the grid to power plug-in vehicles. At 250 >> Wh/mi, that would translate to 1,000 to 1,400 miles per day of >> electric driving. Or enough miles/power to satisfy about 25 to 35 EVs >> doing forty-mile (round trip) commutes. The gas station attrition >> model would appear to need to eliminate about 2,000 ICE vehicles to >> shut down one gas station. >> >> Feel free to check my math - done on an iPhone... >> >> Tom Keenan >> >>> On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV >>> wrote: >>> >>> That would be interesting information. I'll take a stab at an >>> answer, based on this EIA graph: >>> >>> http://www.eia.gov/beta/MER/index.cfm?tbl=T02.01#/?f=A&start=21 >>> >>> Overall, it shows that commercial uses about 80% the amount of >>> residential (this is a visual interpretation). The figure, from >>> EIA, for residential is 11MwH per year. So, let's say the average >>> commercial location uses 8.8MwH per year. >>> >>> https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3 >>> >>> Now for the EVs: If the average EV uses 300wH = .3KwH (including >>> accessories, charging losses, etc.) per mile and the average driver >>> goes 2 miles per year, that's 6MwH of charging per year. >>> >>> So, based on averages and some EV assumptions, the gas station uses >>> enough electricy to charge somewhere between 1 and 2 EVs. >>> >>> Peri >>> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" >>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" >>> Sent: 04-Dec-15 6:47:23 AM >>> Subject: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop >>> pumping gas too!) >>> > : MP Amber Rudd sez the UK grid too weak for 34M EVs > BRITAIN’S electric car revolution could trigger blackouts by > overloading > our power network, senior Tories fear. Typical right wing ignorance. What happens when 50% of cars are EV's. Then only 50% of the gas stations remain operating. How much ELECTRICITY does a gas station consume My wild a$$ guess is maybe the same as what it takes to charge 50 EV's. Now add up all the ELECTRIC savings by closing all those gas stations, and turning off half the gasoline pipelines, and half of the gasoline distribution system, and turning off HALF of all the electricity consumed pumping gas ouit of the ground, etc, and I bet it’s a WASH! Tonight I'm going to drop by my neighborhood gas station and see if the owner will tell me his electric bill and even better, if he will tell me how many cars he serves. I DOUBT he will tell me anything about the number of cars and the amount of gas since he is in EXTREME competition with the statinon across the road, but maybe he will reveal the electric bill
Re: [EVDL] Coal in Your Stocking
As did the relatively easy conversion to heating oil based furnaces. Many oil distributors started as coal and kerosene delivery businesses. -Tom On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 5:00 AM, ralph bagwell via EV wrote: > Piped natural gas helped end much coal use > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 9:19 PM, lektwik via EV wrote: > > > EVDL Folks... > > > > I debated whether to tag this as OT or not. Could be considered > political I > > suppose if you _must_ separate an interest in EVs from conscious > > stewardship of the environment. To me, it couldn't be more -on topic-. > > > > Yes, I just pulled the following quote from another thread for use here- > > > > > > Lee Hart wrote: > > >Once upon a time, everyone burned coal in factories, businesses, and > homes > > for heating and cooking. City air quality was often atrocious. There were > > even some epidemics and mass deaths as a result. > > > > I remember my grandparents using coal, at least into the late 1950's. But > > somehow, it all stopped rather suddenly. I was too young to know why or > how > > this was achieved. > > > > What caused the sudden change? And, could that same effect happen again, > to > > bring us to a "tipping point" so encourage a rapid change from coal and > oil > > to cleaner technologies?< > > > > > > > > Reading this made me think about the great EV-related stories Lee has > > written over the years. This seems like a good start on an outline for > the > > next great Lee Hart story! :-) > > > > Being the Holiday Season, it is always time to bring these classics to > the > > folks that may not have had the pleasure of reading them before. > > > > A Christmas Car, By Lee Hart > > http://www.evdl.org/pages/xmascar.html > > > > And... It took me a while to find this one- > > > > How The Grinch Sold Green-ness, by Lee A. Hart > > http://www.davesevs.com/grinch.htm > > > > More here- > > http://www.evdl.org/lib/index.html#ifun > > > > > > Happy New Year! > > Roy LeMeur > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151204/8deb5871/attachment.htm > > > > > ___ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151205/032f7a12/attachment.htm > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151205/00cdfe87/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas too!)
remain operating. How much ELECTRICITY does a gas station >>>> consume My >>>> wild a$$ guess is maybe the same as what it takes to charge 50 EV's. >>>> Now >>>> add up all the ELECTRIC savings by closing all those gas stations, and >>>> turning off half the gasoline pipelines, and half of the gasoline >>>> distribution system, and turning off HALF of all the electricity >>>> consumed >>>> pumping gas ouit of the ground, etc, and I bet it’s a WASH! >>>> >>>> Tonight I'm going to drop by my neighborhood gas station and see if the >>>> owner will tell me his electric bill and even better, if he will tell >>>> me how >>>> many cars he serves. I DOUBT he will tell me anything about the >>>> number of >>>> cars and the amount of gas since he is in EXTREME competition with the >>>> statinon across the road, but maybe he will reveal the electric bill. >>>> >>>> But we need this number. GO get your local number and lets compare >>>> notes. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> --- >>>> >>> >>> >> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151205/d0ecda83/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Archaic red tape threatens New_Orleans-LA home-EVSE (v)
brucedp5 via EV wrote: ... Ghelase said he’s been told his charger is in violation of the law and he has to shut it down, giving him no way to keep his electric vehicle operating. From the city’s perspective... for safety reasons, the law prohibits allowing electrical wires to cross property lines, even from a privately owned lot to the public right of way in front of it Well, there are ways around that one, at least. Transmit the power across the property line by some means other than electrically. For example, get a big isolation transformer. Put the primary on his property, and the secondary on the city's property, so only the core itself crosses the line. The energy crosses the line magnetically. Transformers this size are over 90% efficient, so energy loss is minimal. Or, use a motor-generator setup. The shaft that couples the two crosses the property line. The shaft could be a couple feet long, if you wanted something that makes the non-electrical separation plainly visible. Or, do it hydraulically. An electric motor drives a pump. The fluid goes through pipes to a matching hydraulic motor, which spins a generator. The two ends could be separated as far as you like, though efficiency isn't as good (maybe 50%). Of course, the best solution is to fix the stupid laws! -- Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons. -- R. Buckminster Fuller -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas too!)
That's great info, Tom! I think the convenience store aspect would remain, so just dividing your numbers by four might be more realistic. That's still 250-300 or so miles per day EV equivalent. Amazing! It would be good to corroborate this data. I'm hoping that this store is an anomaly. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Tom Keenan" To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 05-Dec-15 9:36:12 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas too!) About two years ago, I asked a gas station/convenience store owner what the normal amounts of electricity they used were, and he said about 350 kWh in summer, and 250 kWh in the winter. (Natural gas heating). I asked if this was for an entire month, and me said no, that was the amount used for a single day! He showed his power bill as proof. I was quite surprised, as my house uses roughly that amount per month. Granted, most of the energy was used for beverage and food coolers (about a dozen) and air conditioning. He estimated that the eight gasoline and two diesel dispensers and lift pumps was about a quarter of the total energy use for his station. If one considers this a typical store/gas station, and it serves perhaps 2,000 vehicles a day, each vehicle's share of energy is between 125 and 175 Watt-hours (0.125 to 0.175 kWh) when they fuel up. This takes into account their 'use' of powering the store, whether they buy soda and cigarettes or not. Obviously, energy used at a gas station is only a small part of the equation- extraction, transport, and refining of crude oil use vastly more amounts of energy in the whole petroleum cycle. The total energy used per vehicle would need to include that power used as well. Thought of another way, if the station were to go away (due to customer attrition) there would be an additional 250 to 350 kWh available per day for the grid to power plug-in vehicles. At 250 Wh/mi, that would translate to 1,000 to 1,400 miles per day of electric driving. Or enough miles/power to satisfy about 25 to 35 EVs doing forty-mile (round trip) commutes. The gas station attrition model would appear to need to eliminate about 2,000 ICE vehicles to shut down one gas station. Feel free to check my math - done on an iPhone... Tom Keenan On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: That would be interesting information. I'll take a stab at an answer, based on this EIA graph: http://www.eia.gov/beta/MER/index.cfm?tbl=T02.01#/?f=A&start=21 Overall, it shows that commercial uses about 80% the amount of residential (this is a visual interpretation). The figure, from EIA, for residential is 11MwH per year. So, let's say the average commercial location uses 8.8MwH per year. https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3 Now for the EVs: If the average EV uses 300wH = .3KwH (including accessories, charging losses, etc.) per mile and the average driver goes 2 miles per year, that's 6MwH of charging per year. So, based on averages and some EV assumptions, the gas station uses enough electricy to charge somewhere between 1 and 2 EVs. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 04-Dec-15 6:47:23 AM Subject: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas too!) : MP Amber Rudd sez the UK grid too weak for 34M EVs BRITAIN’S electric car revolution could trigger blackouts by overloading our power network, senior Tories fear. Typical right wing ignorance. What happens when 50% of cars are EV's. Then only 50% of the gas stations remain operating. How much ELECTRICITY does a gas station consume My wild a$$ guess is maybe the same as what it takes to charge 50 EV's. Now add up all the ELECTRIC savings by closing all those gas stations, and turning off half the gasoline pipelines, and half of the gasoline distribution system, and turning off HALF of all the electricity consumed pumping gas ouit of the ground, etc, and I bet it’s a WASH! Tonight I'm going to drop by my neighborhood gas station and see if the owner will tell me his electric bill and even better, if he will tell me how many cars he serves. I DOUBT he will tell me anything about the number of cars and the amount of gas since he is in EXTREME competition with the statinon across the road, but maybe he will reveal the electric bill. But we need this number. GO get your local number and lets compare notes. Bob --- ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Coal in Your Stocking
lektwik via EV wrote: Reading this made me think about the great EV-related stories Lee has written over the years. A Christmas Car, By Lee Hart http://www.evdl.org/pages/xmascar.html How The Grinch Sold Green-ness, by Lee A. Hart http://www.davesevs.com/grinch.htm More here- http://www.evdl.org/lib/index.html#ifun Thanks lektwik! It was fun revisiting them. I've written hundreds of stories and poems like these, though most aren't EV related. > This seems like a good start on an outline for the > next great Lee Hart story! :-) Hmm... I'll have to start thinking about it. -- Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons. -- R. Buckminster Fuller -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas too!)
About two years ago, I asked a gas station/convenience store owner what the normal amounts of electricity they used were, and he said about 350 kWh in summer, and 250 kWh in the winter. (Natural gas heating). I asked if this was for an entire month, and me said no, that was the amount used for a single day! He showed his power bill as proof. I was quite surprised, as my house uses roughly that amount per month. Granted, most of the energy was used for beverage and food coolers (about a dozen) and air conditioning. He estimated that the eight gasoline and two diesel dispensers and lift pumps was about a quarter of the total energy use for his station. If one considers this a typical store/gas station, and it serves perhaps 2,000 vehicles a day, each vehicle's share of energy is between 125 and 175 Watt-hours (0.125 to 0.175 kWh) when they fuel up. This takes into account their 'use' of powering the store, whether they buy soda and cigarettes or not. Obviously, energy used at a gas station is only a small part of the equation- extraction, transport, and refining of crude oil use vastly more amounts of energy in the whole petroleum cycle. The total energy used per vehicle would need to include that power used as well. Thought of another way, if the station were to go away (due to customer attrition) there would be an additional 250 to 350 kWh available per day for the grid to power plug-in vehicles. At 250 Wh/mi, that would translate to 1,000 to 1,400 miles per day of electric driving. Or enough miles/power to satisfy about 25 to 35 EVs doing forty-mile (round trip) commutes. The gas station attrition model would appear to need to eliminate about 2,000 ICE vehicles to shut down one gas station. Feel free to check my math - done on an iPhone... Tom Keenan > On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > > That would be interesting information. I'll take a stab at an answer, based > on this EIA graph: > > http://www.eia.gov/beta/MER/index.cfm?tbl=T02.01#/?f=A&start=21 > > Overall, it shows that commercial uses about 80% the amount of residential > (this is a visual interpretation). The figure, from EIA, for residential is > 11MwH per year. So, let's say the average commercial location uses 8.8MwH > per year. > > https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3 > > Now for the EVs: If the average EV uses 300wH = .3KwH (including > accessories, charging losses, etc.) per mile and the average driver goes > 2 miles per year, that's 6MwH of charging per year. > > So, based on averages and some EV assumptions, the gas station uses enough > electricy to charge somewhere between 1 and 2 EVs. > > Peri > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" > Sent: 04-Dec-15 6:47:23 AM > Subject: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping gas > too!) > >>> : MP Amber Rudd sez the UK grid too weak for 34M EVs >>> BRITAIN’S electric car revolution could trigger blackouts by overloading >>> our power network, senior Tories fear. >> >> Typical right wing ignorance. >> >> What happens when 50% of cars are EV's. Then only 50% of the gas stations >> remain operating. How much ELECTRICITY does a gas station consume My >> wild a$$ guess is maybe the same as what it takes to charge 50 EV's. Now >> add up all the ELECTRIC savings by closing all those gas stations, and >> turning off half the gasoline pipelines, and half of the gasoline >> distribution system, and turning off HALF of all the electricity consumed >> pumping gas ouit of the ground, etc, and I bet it’s a WASH! >> >> Tonight I'm going to drop by my neighborhood gas station and see if the >> owner will tell me his electric bill and even better, if he will tell me how >> many cars he serves. I DOUBT he will tell me anything about the number of >> cars and the amount of gas since he is in EXTREME competition with the >> statinon across the road, but maybe he will reveal the electric bill. >> >> But we need this number. GO get your local number and lets compare notes. >> >> Bob >> --- > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] article: All-electric Porsche Mission E goes into production
perhaps the articles could be alternately titledTesla producing Roadster in 2008 and model S since 2012, both Porsche mission E killers From: brucedp5 via EV To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2015 1:49 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: All-electric Porsche Mission E goes into production The link previously posted: http://www.electricautosport.com/2015/12/all-electric-porsche-mission-e-goes-into-production/ ... the Porsche Mission E has been confirmed for production and will arrive in the showrooms around 2020 ... states Porsche is 3 years away from giving it to their dealers. I already posted about this R&D EV PR back in Sept.: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Porsche-Mission-e-concept-600hp-800V-r-500km-4real-this-time-tp4677599.html EVLN: Porsche Mission-e concept 600hp 800V r:500km ?4real this time? Sep 15 2015 ?So why do I currently see the newswires so clogged with the Mission-e topic? Well IMO it's feel-good PR. VW is still reeling from all its bad PR when it was caught being dishonest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche#Relationship_with_Volkswagen Even GM knows there is nothing like exploiting the public's child-like/FOMO short-term memory with lots of fluff and puff distracting PR. And the media loved Porsche long before it even began to like Tesla. I do not dislike Porsche nor VW. I just know from experience of searching the news for plugins since 1990, that Porsche has a habit of announcing something great sounding, just to see it later dashed/dropped/killed, see http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Porsche-Boxster-E-concept-ts-124mph-0-60mph-5-5s-241hp-t-398ft-lbs-tp3557413.html Porsche Boxster E concept ts:124mph 0-60mph:5.5s 241hp t:398ft-lbs May 28, 2011 http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1099229_porsche-reportedly-bringing-electric-pajun-concept-to-frankfurt Porsche Reportedly Bringing Electric 'Pajun' Concept To Frankfurt Jul 21, 2015 ... In 2011, the company revealed the Boxster E Electric Prototype, and recent patent filings indicate we could see also a fuel cell model at some point. And now we have more information on Stuttgart's latest all-electric effort ... http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/porsche-pajun-concept-performance-news-specs/ Porsche Pajun Concept | Performance, News, Specs ... Jul 21, 2015 - A report coming out of France finds Porsche's on-again, off-again sub-Panamera sedan will be presented to the public this September at the ... The wording 'on-again, off-again' really sums up how flaky their efforts have been. For years Porsche makes a lot of PR noise about Electrics, but nothing really happens. I will wait 3.5 years to see if the Porsche Mission-e is an EV or pih, and if it actually becomes available for the public to buy. Remember, by that time, there will be a new U.S. administration (a new ball game). Maybe that is what they are killing time for ... I mean when the Chinese can hack-n-steal designs then clone a best-selling car, and their is quick 3D printing to accelerate the R&D prototyping/tuning, ... why does it take years for these archaic/old-school brick-and-mortar automobile companies to produce a product? For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: http://evdl.org/evln/ {brucedp.150m.com} -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/article-All-electric-Porsche-Mission-E-goes-into-production-tp4679050p4679052.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151205/692c337c/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Archaic red tape threatens New_Orleans-LA home-EVSE (v)
0 percent for cars or systems purchased after June 30, 2018. “It’s ironic that the biggest tax credit in the country was coming from the Louisiana Legislature, one of the reddest in the country, and New Orleans, one of the most liberal cities in the country, has nothing to encourage solar panels” or electric vehicles, Ghelase said. “They’ve had 10 years since the electric cars came out and became mainstream to come up with a policy to allow private curbside electric charging installs,” Ghelase said. The community of electric vehicle owners is still relatively small in New Orleans. Jeff Cantin, owner of rooftop solar installer Solar Alternatives and head of the Gulf States Renewable Energy Industries Association, said there are about 100 in the city, but the demand for charging stations is growing. “There’s getting to be a few more in town, so you see the need for more as they get more vehicles and people are asking around,” Cantin said. Solar Alternatives has helped install seven charging stations around town that use 240 Volts, including two at each of the Whole Foods locations in the city. That type of charge takes up to four hours to fully charge a typical electric vehicle, while converting the charge from a regular household 120-Volt outlet can take 12 hours for a full charge. Solar Alternatives also helped get a donation from Nissan Motors to install the state’s only DC fast-charging station at the Rouse’s Market downtown. It can fully charge most electric cars – except the larger Teslas – in just 20 minutes. Those smaller cars can go about 80 miles on a full charge. So far, most of the publicly available charging stations are free to use, with businesses like Whole Foods and Rouse’s picking up the tab to provide the electricity. The basic etiquette is for the car owners to shop at the store while charging their vehicle there. “It’s interesting. You see a lot of the need for it when you go somewhere to charge and somebody’s there,” Cantin said. “You say, ‘Gee, I wish there was somewhere else I could go.’” That’s why privately installed charging stations on public property are so useful, Ghelase said. There’s a smart phone application called the PlugShare App where anyone can find area charging stations on a map, with information about each one. His is marked on the map with a note saying it’s free to anyone, as long as he isn’t using the charger at the moment. It only takes about $1.80 worth of electricity to fully charge the typical electric car, Ghelase said, but it doesn’t even cost him that much. He produces all of his household energy with his solar panels, and he said they paid for themselves years ago. While the state’s tax credit program for the nascent electric car industry is extremely generous, its progressive solar tax credit is far more popular, much more costly and therefore, about to come to an end. That’s why Ghelase says it’s high time for the city to step up to the plate. [© wwltv.com] ... http://nola.curbed.com/archives/2015/12/02/electric-car-charger-algiers-point.php City Says No to Algiers Point Man's Electric Car Charger December 2, 2015 For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: http://evdl.org/evln/ {brucedp.150m.com} -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Archaic-red-tape-threatens-New-Orleans-LA-home-EVSE-v-tp4679054.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151205/7cd8b05a/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Coal in Your Stocking
Piped natural gas helped end much coal use On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 9:19 PM, lektwik via EV wrote: > EVDL Folks... > > I debated whether to tag this as OT or not. Could be considered political I > suppose if you _must_ separate an interest in EVs from conscious > stewardship of the environment. To me, it couldn't be more -on topic-. > > Yes, I just pulled the following quote from another thread for use here- > > > Lee Hart wrote: > >Once upon a time, everyone burned coal in factories, businesses, and homes > for heating and cooking. City air quality was often atrocious. There were > even some epidemics and mass deaths as a result. > > I remember my grandparents using coal, at least into the late 1950's. But > somehow, it all stopped rather suddenly. I was too young to know why or how > this was achieved. > > What caused the sudden change? And, could that same effect happen again, to > bring us to a "tipping point" so encourage a rapid change from coal and oil > to cleaner technologies?< > > > > Reading this made me think about the great EV-related stories Lee has > written over the years. This seems like a good start on an outline for the > next great Lee Hart story! :-) > > Being the Holiday Season, it is always time to bring these classics to the > folks that may not have had the pleasure of reading them before. > > A Christmas Car, By Lee Hart > http://www.evdl.org/pages/xmascar.html > > And... It took me a while to find this one- > > How The Grinch Sold Green-ness, by Lee A. Hart > http://www.davesevs.com/grinch.htm > > More here- > http://www.evdl.org/lib/index.html#ifun > > > Happy New Year! > Roy LeMeur > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151204/8deb5871/attachment.htm > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151205/032f7a12/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: Zoe EV'r is 'courtesy-ice-co$ts' furious at long parts wait
http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/news/151406/watchdog-costs-spiral-as-petrol-courtesy-car-replaces-ev Watchdog: Costs spiral as petrol courtesy car replaces EV Dec 1, 2015 Joe Finnerty [image http://cdn2.carbuyer.co.uk/sites/carbuyer_d7/files/styles/16x9_720/public/unp-autoexp-33826-renault-zoe-12_0.jpg?itok=Ds_sN-oB (Zoe w/ broken side mirror) ] Owner left furious at long wait for Renault ZOE parts as courtesy car sends her bills soaring Should you be compensated for the running costs of a courtesy vehicle while your own car is in for repairs? On the one hand, there's no legal requirement for a garage to provide a car to keep you mobile, but on the other it's considered good customer service. The answer to the question becomes further muddled when your car is an EV – which offers 2p-a-mile motoring – and the courtesy car runs on petrol, which racks up fuel bills. It's a dilemma Elizabeth Haslehurst, from Barnsley, South Yorkshire, faced when the gearknob on her Renault ZOE fell off. She’d bought the car from Harratts Renault, Wakefield, in March, and in May the car needed to be booked in for repairs. It was fixed, but on the drive home the gear selector was locking in drive. So she then booked it in at Evans Halshaw Sheffield. Unfortunately, things didn’t improve. Elizabeth contacted Auto Express after the car had been off the road for seven weeks with parts “on back order”. We contacted Renault, and within a few days the parts arrived. However, the gearknob still felt loose and by the weekend it had fallen off. Elizabeth said: “I bought the car for financial reasons, as it's advertised the ZOE will cost 2p per mile to run, but the replacement hire car I was given is a normal combustion engine. I’m significantly out of pocket as I’m paying for both fuel and the battery lease on something which I can’t drive.” This time the dealer screwed the gearstick in place, but Elizabeth wanted to reject the car. However, Renault said the fix was a permanent one, and so there was no case to answer. Elizabeth told us: “It looks like I’m going to be stuck with a car I’ve no faith in.” We contacted Renault to pursue a compensation claim, and the manufacturer offered a free four-year servicing plan or two months’ reimbursement of battery hire – but nothing for the courtesy car expenses. A spokesman said: “We will always try to ensure spare parts are available within 24 to 48 hours of order. We ensured she remained mobile with a free courtesy vehicle and kept her fully informed at all times. We have offered a gesture of goodwill in relation to her experience.” [© carbuyer.co.uk] For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: http://evdl.org/evln/ {brucedp.150m.com} -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Zoe-EV-r-is-courtesy-ice-co-ts-furious-at-long-parts-wait-tp4679057.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: New Nissan EV will offer an i3-like rex option
'i-MiEV EV is dead', 'Mazda’s h2-rotary-rex' http://www.motoring.com.au/nissan-ev-range-extender-in-2016-100413/ Nissan EV range extender in 2016 December 01, 2015 Feann Torr Range anxiety issues to be addressed with Nissan's first extended-range electric car BMW’s i3 has one, the now-discontinued Holden Volt had one, and soon Nissan will offer an electric vehicle (EV) with a compact range-extender engine. To be revealed in 2016, the new vehicle will be self-proclaimed EV market leader Nissan’s first attempt at offering an electric car with a small combustion engine. Unlike regular and plug-in hybrids, the (usually tiny) engines have no connection to the driving wheels. Instead, they act purely as a generator, sometimes doubling effective cruising ranges. Yoshi Shimoida, Nissan’s Deputy General Manager, EV and HEV engineering division, revealed to motoring.com.au that there will be “no engine” for the LEAF in future, ruling out the world’s best-selling EV as a donor car. “But in the future Nissan will add [a new vehicle] to the line-up of EV systems an engine that is only for generating energy,” said the EV technology specialist. When talk turned to the BMW i3 and its range-extender, Shimoida said it was similar in execution. “It’s something like that [range extender]. But we call it a series hybrid,” he said, which is another name given to the range-extending EV technology. The Japanese EV guru wouldn’t be drawn on the Nissan EV’s range, or whether it would match that of the range-extender BMW i3. The BMW EV can travel around 150km while the range-extender versions, which get a 650cc scooter engine and a small fuel tank, effectively double that distance to 300km between charges/fills via a 9.5-litre fuel tank. Shimoida wouldn’t say what the new vehicle will be called although he did reveal it’s going to be announced sooner rather than later. “Next year we announce what it’s called,” he stated. If the new vehicle is not going to be a LEAF, it’s possible an all-new vehicle premiering the range-extending EV technology for Nissan could be introduced. In September this year, Nissan revealed a new battery pack for the 2015 LEAF electric car for overseas markets that goes from 24kWh to 30kWh, extending the range from 228km to 280km. Chris Jordan, Nissan Australia’s Corporate Communications Supervisor, said the upgraded LEAF will not be offered in this country, but wouldn’t rule out the arrival a new range-extender EV – which would be far more palatable to Aussie buyers. “You’d have to see what it was first,” he said. “We look at all products but I can’t add anything more than that.” [© motoring.com.au] http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/12/mitsubishis-electric-i-miev-is-dead-hybrid-is-the-future/ ... Mitsubishi is killing off the i-MiEV to focus on hybridifying (yep, that’s a word) the rest of its vehicle line-up in the next couple of years ... http://edge.alluremedia.com.au/m/g/2015/12/mitsubishi_imiev.jpg ... http://www.autoblog.com/2015/11/30/i-miev-doesnt-survive-mitsubishis-updated-ev-plan/ i-MiEV doesn't survive Mitsubishi's updated EV plan ... http://artofgears.com/2015/12/02/mitsubishis-electric-only-i-miev-to-be-discontinued/ Mitsubishi's Electric Only i-MiEV To Be Discontinued http://www.wired.com/2015/12/mazdas-confusing-plan-to-resurrect-the-famously-dirty-rotary-engine/ ... despite the rotary engine’s ample promise as a [h2] range extender, Mazda’s managing executive officer Kiyoshi Fujiwara insists that is not how the engine will return. “I want to introduce a new rotary without electrification first,” he says. “If I introduce it with both, people will say electrification helped the rotary engine.” So pride is clearly an issue. And there’s still no guarantee [h2] will ever become a widely available fuel source, hence the old joke, [h2] is the fuel of the future—and always will be ... For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: http://evdl.org/evln/ {brucedp.150m.com} -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-New-Nissan-EV-will-offer-an-i3-like-rex-option-tp4679056.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: Walkden's 1992 Subaru Brumby Electric conversion save$
http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/3528789/big-bucks-saved-through-electric-conversion/ Big bucks saved through electric conversion Dec. 1, 2015 LUCY SWINNEN [image http://nnimgt-a.akamaihd.net/transform/v1/crop/frm/silverstone-feed-data/32668bd5-7d6e-4971-9d8f-b2addb7e5bb8.jpg/r0_14_847_493_w1200_h678_fmax.jpg PLUG IN: Christopher Walkden of Seabourne explains the conversion of his 1992 Subaru Brumby to Labor leader Bryan Green yesterday. Picture: Jason Hollister ] CONVERTING your petrol guzzler into an electric car could save you thousands, say electric car drivers. The secretary of the Tasmanian Australian Electric Vehicle Association and electric car enthusiast, Christopher Walkden, of Seabourne, near Hagley, spends roughly $5 per 100 kilometres in his converted electric car. Mr Walkden has been keen on going electric for a long time. In 2012 he converted a much-loved family car, a 1992 Subaru Brumby 4WD into an electric car. The conversion gave the car a new lease on life, and it is cheaper to run and service than ever. Reaching speeds of 130km/h, the car has also made Mr Walkden the first Tasmanian record holder for electric car drag racing. He was invited by Tas Dragway and completed 1/8th of a lap in just over 12 seconds. The only downside for Mr Walkden is that for every 100 kilometres he needs to recharge his car overnight, using a regular power point. There is a very limited range of places Mr Walkden can go in Tasmania to recharge efficiently. See your ad here "We have had inquiries from the mainland, people want to find out where they can charge when they come down," Mr Walkden said. Charging stations along the highway would significantly improve the range and capacity for local and interstate drivers, Mr Walkden said. "It would open up the state for tourism from the mainland." [© 2015 Fairfax Media] For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: http://evdl.org/evln/ {brucedp.150m.com} -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Walkden-s-1992-Subaru-Brumby-Electric-conversion-save-tp4679055.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Archaic red tape threatens New_Orleans-LA home-EVSE (v)
http://www.theneworleansadvocate.com/news/14148883-172/city-tells-algiers-point-man City tells Algiers Point man to remove his electric vehicle charger, at least for now Nov. 30, 2015 JEFF ADELSON [image / JOHN McCUSKER http://theadvocate.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=K8yexkMnkEr9PW2IgniMFM$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYvNw0W9RkE9a$aKw3f8f7$3WCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_CryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg Vlad Ghelase with his electric car and charging station in front of his Algiers Point home ] Red tape threatens to pull the plug on man’s electric car charging station After considering making the switch to an electric vehicle for years, Vlad Ghelase finally bought a used Nissan Leaf two weeks ago. Like many houses in older New Orleans neighborhoods, Ghelase’s lacks a driveway, so he couldn’t put the charging station for the car next to his Algiers Point house. Stretching a power cord across the sidewalk to the street could present problems. So he had an electrician apply for a permit to install a charging station next to the curb in front of his home. And that’s when he ran into a problem that New Orleans apparently hasn’t yet grappled with, but which is likely to become more common in the future: how to deal with charging stations on the public property that lines the city’s streets. Ghelase said he’s been told his charger is in violation of the law and he has to shut it down, giving him no way to keep his electric vehicle operating. City officials said they’re looking into what to do about both his charger and what they expect to be an increasing number of similar situations in coming years. In the meantime, however, Ghelase said he’s been frustrated trying to figure out how to get his charger into compliance with the law. “That’s the irony of it. We’re in a red state with a Republican Legislature that has incentives for electric vehicles, and the most progressive city in the state is actually blocking it,” he said. At least 11 people have received permits to put charging stations on their property, according to city records. But those were actually on their property, something that isn’t possible in areas of the city where driveways are scarce. From the city’s perspective, there are two separate problems with Ghelase’s set-up, Director of Safety and Permits Jared Munster said. Anyone who builds on city property must pay for it under rules designed to abide by the prohibition against using public property for private gain, he said. In addition, for safety reasons, the law prohibits allowing electrical wires to cross property lines, even from a privately owned lot to the public right of way in front of it, he said. Neither of those presents insurmountable problems, Munster said. The city’s Department of Property Maintenance could sign off on a lease of a portion of the right of way, he said, though Ghelase said when he tried to go that route he was told it wasn’t possible. As for the issue of crossing property lines, Munster said the city’s Board of Building Standards and Appeals could clear the way for Ghelase’s set-up. But in the meantime, Munster said, the department is asking Ghelase to disconnect his charging station. Officials from the Department of Safety and Permits and the Department of Property Maintenance plan to meet to discuss Ghelase’s specific issue and, potentially, the broader topic of how to permit such charging stations in the future. “It’s absolutely something we’re looking at,” Munster said. “This is going to become a more common issue. The more electric vehicles are on the road, the more it’s going to happen.” The issue has come up only once before, when a property owner Uptown requested a permit for a similar set-up. At the time, city officials did not realize that installation was going to be on public property and so issued a permit, though they’re planning to revisit the issue, Munster said. Another problem is that a charging station in the right of way next to the street would not give its owner a specific claim to the adjacent parking spot, and he couldn’t prevent others from using the charger. Ghelase said he’d already been working under that assumption, based on regulations in place in Berkeley, California. He handed out fliers based on Berkeley’s law to his neighbors, letting them know the charger didn’t give him any special rights and they could use both the spot and the station. Jeff Cantin, owner of Solar Alternatives, said his company has installed several chargers for residents and has not run into any problems. But with the price of electric vehicles coming down and interest in the technology rising, he said, New Orleans should look to other cities that have instituted a streamlined process to allow chargers in front of people’s homes. “Other cities around the country have figured this out,” Cantin said. “Fortunately, as usual, New Orleans is a litt
Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] Re: article: All-electric Porsche Mission E goes into production
I hope they realize this won't be that strong a competitor to Tesla. It has a few incremental improvements over today's Tesla Model S, but the Model S will be 10 years old when the Mission E is released (if they are on time). Where do they think Tesla will be in 5 years? That is where they should be aiming. Mike On December 4, 2015 11:49:44 PM MST, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > >The link previously posted: > >http://www.electricautosport.com/2015/12/all-electric-porsche-mission-e-goes-into-production/ >... the Porsche Mission E has been confirmed for production and will >arrive >in the showrooms around 2020 ... > > states Porsche is 3 years away from giving it to their dealers. >I already posted about this R&D EV PR back in Sept.: > > >http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Porsche-Mission-e-concept-600hp-800V-r-500km-4real-this-time-tp4677599.html >EVLN: Porsche Mission-e concept 600hp 800V r:500km ?4real this time? >Sep 15 2015 > > > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)