Re: [EVDL] Replacement smart EVSE innards....

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I have two OpenEVSE's at my house. The only thing that's ever gone wrong 
was a relay. They've progressed quite a bit since I bought mine (2nd and 
3rd generation), but I have no qualms recommending them.


--Ric

On 9/8/2023 11:37 AM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:
[...]
I was wondering if anybody had experiance with something like OpenEVSE 
(or similar) where you could buy a kit of the interior parts and 
re-use the box/power/j1772 plug wires.


The only real feature I'm looking for is 30-40 amp capacity (original 
was 40 amp with a NEMA 14-50 plug, but I only need 27.5 for the Leaf) 
and the ability to limit the charge amount (time/kwh) on a per charge 
basis (ideally with a phone app, but I'd also consider a touch pad GUI 
type solution).


Comments or suggestions?

I could also buy a new JuiceBox 40 Pro for about $500 [They offered me 
a $100 discount coupon based of of my old one failing well outside of 
warranty] so I'm looking for a $250 or lower price point for 
replacement parts...+ my effort installing.


Thanks,
Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Hyper 9 low-end performance problem

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Dan was helpful enough to send me his clone file (it's the controller 
configuration). I compared it page-by-page and only found one 
significance difference. There's a "vehicle information" section that 
has end gear ratio and tire size. In mine the gear ratio was 7:09 and 
tire size 589mm. On Dan's, because he's driving a propeller, it was 1 
and 100mm. So I set mine to those numbers and my low-end performance 
improved dramatically. It still struggles going up my driveway but now I 
feel it's a gearing problem and not a limited current problem. Also, it 
can now back up the driveway. No idea if that change impacts anything 
else, though.


So thank you very much Dan!

My next step will be to swap out the 3.73 gears in the diff for 4.10. I 
think that will give me better low-end torque without limiting my 
top-end very much. As it is, right now, I'm software limiting it to 
about 80mph. 70 will do me fine.


--Rick

On 6/19/2023 8:53 PM, Rick Beebe via EV wrote:

That’s what I wanna see!  The problem is that I don’t know what screens would 
be useful and there are many!

I wonder if I load your clone file…

--Rick


On Jun 19, 2023, at 6:46 PM, Dan Baker via EV  wrote:

Hey Rick
I have a hyper-9 on my 20' pontoon boat and it certainly delivers full
torque off the line.  I am running a "boat" controller file from hyper9 and
it is their stock HV 144v controller that can with it.  I'm running it also
at 160v nominal from a split chevy volt pack.  I have a whole other hyper9
HV kit going in an MGA, interesting to see how it works in a car and hoping
I don't have issues as you describe.
I know the software that comes to setup the hyper9 has quite a few options
so I could try and capture some screens if needed.

Video of my 'toon's holeshot to 20mph.  Full 2 seconds quicker than a 150hp
four stroke on same boat:https://youtu.be/_VqtA0Yoksw

Cheers
Dan



On Mon, Jun 19, 2023, 6:45 p.m. John Lussmyer via EV
wrote:

One thing to realize is that the DC motor would happily take full power
from the controller, and give you WAY over spec torque at the low end.


On 6/19/2023 6:15 AM, Rick Beebe via EV wrote:
Hey all. I recently reconverted my Ford Ranger. It had an ADC 9"
series motor connected to the stock transmission, Raptor controller
and 144v pack. Now it has a Hyper 9 HV and controller, and a 160v
pack. The Hyper 9 is connected to a TorqueTrends single-speed gearbox

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Re: [EVDL] Hyper 9 low-end performance problem

[Rick Beebe via EV]

That’s what I wanna see!  The problem is that I don’t know what screens would 
be useful and there are many!

I wonder if I load your clone file…

--Rick

> On Jun 19, 2023, at 6:46 PM, Dan Baker via EV  wrote:
> 
> Hey Rick
> I have a hyper-9 on my 20' pontoon boat and it certainly delivers full
> torque off the line.  I am running a "boat" controller file from hyper9 and
> it is their stock HV 144v controller that can with it.  I'm running it also
> at 160v nominal from a split chevy volt pack.  I have a whole other hyper9
> HV kit going in an MGA, interesting to see how it works in a car and hoping
> I don't have issues as you describe.
> I know the software that comes to setup the hyper9 has quite a few options
> so I could try and capture some screens if needed.
> 
> Video of my 'toon's holeshot to 20mph.  Full 2 seconds quicker than a 150hp
> four stroke on same boat: https://youtu.be/_VqtA0Yoksw
> 
> Cheers
> Dan
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2023, 6:45 p.m. John Lussmyer via EV 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> One thing to realize is that the DC motor would happily take full power
>> from the controller, and give you WAY over spec torque at the low end.
>> 
>>> On 6/19/2023 6:15 AM, Rick Beebe via EV wrote:
>>> Hey all. I recently reconverted my Ford Ranger. It had an ADC 9"
>>> series motor connected to the stock transmission, Raptor controller
>>> and 144v pack. Now it has a Hyper 9 HV and controller, and a 160v
>>> pack. The Hyper 9 is connected to a TorqueTrends single-speed gearbox

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Re: [EVDL] Hyper 9 low-end performance problem

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Thanks. I should have added that the Hyper 9 has its own controller. The 
Raptor is gone now.


--Rick

On 6/19/2023 9:37 AM, Bob Bath via EV wrote:

I wonder if Damon Crockett at AllTrax, original designer— can help you.
Peter Senkowski took over the Raptors later. Damon is a great guy and has a 
passion for on road. Nothing to lose…

Sincerely,
Bob Bath
541.761.0838

Note: any misspellings of the contents of this message are due to 57 y.o. 
vision, hyperactive spell check changing what I typed, or fat fingering— not 
cluelessness.



On Jun 19, 2023, at 6:16 AM, Rick Beebe via EV  wrote:

Hey all. I recently reconverted my Ford Ranger. It had an ADC 9" series motor 
connected to the stock transmission, Raptor controller and 144v pack. Now it has a 
Hyper 9 HV and controller, and a 160v pack. The Hyper 9 is connected to a 
TorqueTrends single-speed gearbox.

For the most part I'm very happy with everything, especially since my power 
consumption has gone from about 2.7 to 3.6 miles/kWh but it feels to me like I 
have a problem at the low end. In normal driving the truck accelerates like my 
old '64 Beetle used to. That's okay but it's a real problem going up a hill. My 
driveway is rather steep and the truck can only manage about 10mph going up the 
hill. If I stop on the hill it won't move at all. Nor will it back up the 
driveway.

According to the torque charts from Netgain compared to the ones from ADC, the 
motor should be plenty strong. I drove almost all the time in 2nd gear which 
was 2:1 and the TorqueTrends is set to 1.9:1 so there's a little penalty there. 
I am thinking about changing the rear end from 3.73:1 to 4.11:1 which will help 
get the gearing back.

But it feels to me like the issue is that the controller is SLOWLY ramping up 
the current when I step on the accelerator. When I turn in the driveway I can 
put the pedal to the floor and the battery amps don't climb above 100 until I'm 
nearly at the top--about 6 seconds later. If I'm driving at 20mph and stomp on 
it, the amps will zoom right up to 400 and the truck accelerates nicely.

Does anyone know of a setting in the controller that can tweak the current ramp 
up speed? The current limit page shows 100% across the entire RPM range, so it 
has to be somewhere else. The throttle page shows that I'm getting full pedal 
travel. I'm not looking for burnouts but I'm dreading the day I have to stop on 
a steep hill on a real street. Thanks for any help.

--Rick
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[EVDL] Hyper 9 low-end performance problem

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Hey all. I recently reconverted my Ford Ranger. It had an ADC 9" series 
motor connected to the stock transmission, Raptor controller and 144v 
pack. Now it has a Hyper 9 HV and controller, and a 160v pack. The Hyper 
9 is connected to a TorqueTrends single-speed gearbox.


For the most part I'm very happy with everything, especially since my 
power consumption has gone from about 2.7 to 3.6 miles/kWh but it feels 
to me like I have a problem at the low end. In normal driving the truck 
accelerates like my old '64 Beetle used to. That's okay but it's a real 
problem going up a hill. My driveway is rather steep and the truck can 
only manage about 10mph going up the hill. If I stop on the hill it 
won't move at all. Nor will it back up the driveway.


According to the torque charts from Netgain compared to the ones from 
ADC, the motor should be plenty strong. I drove almost all the time in 
2nd gear which was 2:1 and the TorqueTrends is set to 1.9:1 so there's a 
little penalty there. I am thinking about changing the rear end from 
3.73:1 to 4.11:1 which will help get the gearing back.


But it feels to me like the issue is that the controller is SLOWLY 
ramping up the current when I step on the accelerator. When I turn in 
the driveway I can put the pedal to the floor and the battery amps don't 
climb above 100 until I'm nearly at the top--about 6 seconds later. If 
I'm driving at 20mph and stomp on it, the amps will zoom right up to 400 
and the truck accelerates nicely.


Does anyone know of a setting in the controller that can tweak the 
current ramp up speed? The current limit page shows 100% across the 
entire RPM range, so it has to be somewhere else. The throttle page 
shows that I'm getting full pedal travel. I'm not looking for burnouts 
but I'm dreading the day I have to stop on a steep hill on a real 
street. Thanks for any help.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] need new home ESVE

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I have two of these, of various vintages, and they work great, but I'm a 
fan of open source stuff:


https://openevse.com/

I also have a Clipper Creek 30amp one that has been rock solid.

--Rick

On 6/9/2023 10:31 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
My ESVE stopped working. I'm planning to replace it and would like 
some suggestions.


The low voltage circuit blew a fuse. I put in a new one and it 
practically exploded. Obviously a dead short which, I presume, means 
the power supply went bad. I'm sure I could replace that but I'm not 
sure I want to spend the time trying to find the part and to do the swap.


I've looked online at several J1772 ESVEs. I have a 40A circuit with a 
nema 6-50 socket (I think). I need a 20'-25' cable. Will be outdoor.


AEFA Mini Cooper
https://ev-chargers.com/mini/mini-cooper-se-ev-chargers/
$275, up to 40A (input or output, don't know), 6-50 option, compact.

Grizzl-E GR1-14-24-P, GR1-6-24-P
https://grizzl-e.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Classic-brochure-letter-2022-1.pdf 


$395, 32A output on 40A circuit, 6-50 option, reasonably compact.

Kind of expensive: Juicebox 40
https://evcharging.enelx.com/images/JuiceBox/PDF/Next-Gen_JuiceBox_40_1_15.pdf 

$649, 40A circuit, 14-50 plug (I'll have to rewire socket), moderately 
compact.


Consider: Lectron 30A
https://ev-lectron.com/products/lectron-portable-electric-car-charger-32a
$306. Can't find any specs, which gives strong negative vibes.

Any suggestions ?

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
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Re: [EVDL] used fiat 500e

[Rick Beebe via EV]

It would be good to verify that you can get service reasonably close 
though. I had a similar love-with-an-orphan-vehicle situation in that I 
had a Smart EV for 3 years. I really liked the car. I had leased it and 
was trying to decide between buying it and leasing another when the only 
dealer in my state decided they weren't going to sell the Smarts any 
more. And then, shortly after, Daimler decided not to sell them in the 
US at all. I never had any trouble with the car but wasn't willing to 
take the risk of not being able to get it repaired. Instead I got a 
Chevy Bolt. Possibly the best car I ever owned. I will say, I really 
loved that the Smart had a real tailgate though. I used the car as a 
mobile workshop quite often. Working with tools out of the back of the 
Bolt was far more awkward.


--Rick

On 2/3/2023 7:47 PM, Alan Brinkman via EV wrote:

Peri,
I was a tad negative about the Fiat 500e in my response. I was pretty happy
for 2.5 years. The dash would state a range of 90 miles when I would leave
for the day. In 70F weather it would travel 60 to 70 miles not going over
55 or 60 mph. In 100 to 115F weather with the AC on (like your 30F with the
heater on) it would travel 35 to 45 miles and keep above the 10% charge
turtle mode.

...

Alan

On Thu, Feb 2, 2023 at 7:18 AM Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:


Does anyone have experience with the fiat 500e ? I'm looking at yet
another option to replace our 2011 leaf. I don't have time to find
replacement cells for the leaf and paying someone to do the whole job is
probably $8-$10k, more than I want to spend on an old car. It looks like
I could get a used 2017 or 2018 model for about $15k.

My wife wants a small car and the 500e would be a great fit. It *should*
have substantially better range than our old leaf but I want to hear
from other people.

- what 70F range do you get for city driving ? ...for highway driving ?
- what 30F (with heat & defrost) range city ? highway ?

Any significant concerns about the car ?

Thanks,
Peri



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Re: [EVDL] Lithium Ion buddy pairing? (Was electriccarpartscompany.com?)

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I have 48 CALB CA100's in my truck, also 5 years old. I've never even 
had to top off any. I checked them in the Spring and they were all 
within 2 thousandths of a volt of each other. In July I had one of those 
*doh* events and drained the *entire* pack to 9 volts. I recharged the 
pack and they were all within 2 thousandths of a volt of each 
other...except for 1 which read 0 volts. I had a spare which I charged 
externally to the same voltage as those in the pack. Two charge cycles 
and I checked again this weekend. All the same still. So I'm with Tom. 
CALBs are magic.


--Rick


On 8/7/2018 6:48 PM, Tom Jones via EV wrote:

I really have to beg to differ about CALBs.
My Focus has 45 CA180 cells that have been on the road for about five 
years without BMS. Once a year, sometimes twice, I pump a few amp 
hours into the lowest cells with with a radio control type charger.

That usually involves about five cells.
I do have a homemade battery monitor with a display, expanded voltage 
scale, that I use to keep a eye on the pack while driving. And, I do 
datalog each cell all the time while driving and charging. In the 
charging sweet spot, about 3.4 volts, all 45 cells are in a tight 
range of about 25 mV. I consider that basically magic!
My battery monitor also will stop the J1772 if any single cell voltage 
gets too high.

So, that my experience with CALB cells,

Tom



On 8/6/2018 7:51 PM, Alan Arrison via EV wrote:
I guarantee that the inferior Chinese cells will change capacity as 
they are cycled and not by just a few percent.


Running them without a BMS is a recipe for disaster. Damaged cells at 
best, a fire at worst.


All the Chinese cells are junk, especially the CALBS.

Al


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Re: [EVDL] Why the EV will win over the ICE

[Rick Beebe via EV]

The simple solution has to solve the problem, though, and in this case they 
have a requirement that it run on gasoline. And electric motor controller 
doesn’t work so well for that.

--Rick

> On Dec 9, 2017, at 6:56 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> 
> ROBERT via EV wrote:
>> I saw this article describing the a newly designed engine for an Infiniti 
>> Automobile.  In order to get fuel economy and performance from the engine, 
>> the design is very complex.  All this can be accomplished by software in an 
>> electric motor controller.  The simplest solution is always the best 
>> solution.
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Re: [EVDL] Fwd: I need a plugin Hybrid! (Cmax Energi?)

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I'm on my second CMax Energi and I'll echo what Bill said. However, you 
have to be careful because some of the things he touts are options. Our 
first Energi had everything and we loved it. It was a 2013 and we leased 
it for 3 years. I was debating buying it but the dealer called last 
March with an offer I couldn't refuse. A new lease on a 2015 with so 
many rebates and price cuts that my monthly payment went down $180 and I 
got $700 cash. And that was after paying off the old lease and doing all 
the taxes and registration. I was careful to make sure it had the things 
we wanted, like heated seats and mirrors and the upgraded nav/sound 
system, but missed one option--the backup camera and the automatic lift 
gate. It also doesn't have the sunroof which I miss but isn't a horrible 
inconvenience. But I really miss the automatic liftgate and the camera. 
The new one also doesn't have the autopark feature. I didn't think I'd 
miss it because I hardly ever used it but what it also omitted was the 
front obstacle sensors. Something I found out when I hit the lawn mower 
the first time I drove into the garage.


Buyer's remorse aside, we love the car. It's very comfortable and holds 
a lot. Initially I was concerned that the high rear deck was going to be 
annoying (on the Energi, the extra battery pack basically sits in the 
cargo area) but in fact we both find it a good height for putting things 
in and out. Unlike Bill, we routinely get 25-30 EV miles in the summer. 
It drops to 15 in the winter but my wife--who usually drives this one to 
work and back--manages to always get her 20 mile commute in EV mode by 
turning the heat off and relying on the heated seats.


Neither has needed any real maintenance except for factory-specified 
maintenance every 10,000 miles. The new one needs to go soon. It's at 
9955 right now. The old one had a flaky GPS module. It took the dealer a 
couple tries but they eventually got a good one in there. I usually have 
to put gas in it 5 or 6 times per year mostly because of driving to 
Maine to visit family (I live in Connecticut). We're averaging a little 
over 105mpg right now.


Also like Bill, my daily driver is a Smart ED. It's also leased, until 
July. I haven't decided what to replace it with yet but the new Bolt EV 
is mighty tempting. And it's supposed to be in Connecticut...in July!


--Rick

On 3/5/2017 8:25 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

I need a USED Plugin Hybrid that is NOT a Prius (range too short) or Volt
(Perfect, but wife wants 5 seat belts)..

Is the Ford Cmax Energi the only affordable thing left?.

Does anyone have one?  Anything about it you dont like?

I thought I had the wife all sold on a Volt, but then she balked at the
high trunk access lip (doesnt want to lift heavy plants up and over) and
the lack of a 5th seatbelt.

Wife's been driving one of my Salvage Prius hacks for 9 years and loves
it.  But the key FOB battery died and she is now scared of unreliability so
I have to go buy another car... and (for me, it must be a plug in)...

Bob, Wb4APR
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Re: [EVDL] battery heating pads

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I have 4 battery boxes for my LiFePo4 cells. Two hold 8 cells, one holds 
12, and the big one holds 28. They are aluminum boxes I had made by 
customaluminumboxes.com and I oversized them 2" in all directions. I put 
1" foam insulation around the batteries. I bought 10 battery heating 
pads from KTA. They're some kind of mica sheets with heating elements in 
them sized to fit under a 12v starter battery. I put one each in the 
small boxes, 2 in the medium box and 6 in the large box with the cells 
sitting on top of them. I heat them from shoreline power when the truck 
is plugged in. I figure I want the batteries warm when I leave for 
better range and the insulation will help them stay warm during my 
travels. They worked great BUT failed partway through the third winter. 
My big box had too much flex and the brittle panels broke.


The pads in the little boxes were fine so I replaced the 6 pads in the 
big box with two of these silicone rubber heating pads: 
http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=batheater=16. Very 
expensive but flexible. So far they're working well.


--Rick


On 1/3/2017 1:59 AM, ken via EV wrote:

  whats a good for heating batteries ?
water bed heater pad ?
What else could be used?


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[EVDL] Citicars and Bob Rice (was Re: EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101)

[Rick Beebe via EV]

It was fun watching the youtube video linked off that page and seeing 
Bob again. The white pickup truck featured in that video that Bob helped 
Dave Oliveria build now sits proudly in my driveway. I reconverted it to 
LiFePo4 and ended up replacing everything except the motor, controller 
and vacuum pump. I also helped a little bit with Mike Okrent's red S-10 
which is also shown in the video.


Watching the next video that Youtube popped up"Citicar Cruise to Bob's", 
it struck me that my other car--a Smart ED--is pretty much the modern 
day version of the Citicar. It even has plastic body panels.


--Rick

BobBeaumont was the car dealer and money man -- he knew marketing and


sales.BobRicewas the engineer that actually designed and built them
-- he had already been building and selling EV prototypes for years.

There's more aboutBobRice, and a picture of his 1964 "Electroliner" EV
at .


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Re: [EVDL] Spanish EV charging (was J1772 might not go to a low level ...)

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I found it was worth it putting in a 240v EVSE mostly for the weekends. 
120v was fine on weekdays. Drive to work and back, maybe a short errand, 
plug it in over night and repeat. But weekends I often make lots of 
medium trips and it wasn't charging enough in the in-between times. I 
never ran out but it got closer than I liked a few times. But I was able 
to install each EVSE for only about $600 so the convience far outweighed 
the economic impact for me (I have 3 EVSE's for 2 1/2 electric cars 
right now)


--Rick

On 12/26/2016 1:47 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

From: Jay Summet via EV 

Speaking as somebody who has charged at 1.4 kW for over a year and a
half, L1 charging can meet almost all of your needs as long as you plug
in whenever you are parked.

That's been my experience as well. We've had a 2013 Leaf for 2 years now, and 
almost always charge on 120vac. I think I can count the number of times I've 
used 240vac charging on my fingers.

--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com


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Re: [EVDL] Electronics help anyone

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I actually have a Zeva sitting on my workbench. It had the same problem. I 
replaced it with the AutoblockAMP in large part because of the programmability 
of the latter plus the packaging is much more industrial.

Thanks Bill. I'm actually quite versed in Arduinos. I built a battery box heat 
controller using a Pro Mini, a relay board and some temperature probes. I have 
an ISAScale high precision shunt with CANBus output that I'm playing with that 
I'll use an Arduino to read and to display SOC, Amps, etc on a small LCD that 
I'll imbed in the dash. I actually do have that setup driving a fuel gauge. I 
was resisting going that route for this just because I also have to find a 
place to put it, get an appropriate power supply, etc. But it may be the best 
option.

--Rick

> On Oct 26, 2016, at 1:33 AM, Tom Keenan <tnan...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> I have a similar device in my old Electron Ford Escort - a ZEVA fuel gauge 
> driver plus. It works quite well with the old Ford analog gauges. 
> http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=144
> You might try their setup file - might be the same device as the one you 
> have, just made in Australia. 
> Tom Keenan
> 
>> On Oct 25, 2016, at 1:05 PM, Rick Beebe via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I have a 1998 Ford Ranger (http://evalbum.com/4674) that I bought as a
>> lead-acid EV and converted it to Lithium. In the process I replaced
>> almost everything. I bought an AutoblockAMP from RechargeCar (sadly,
>> discontinued). It's a slick hall-effect current sensor that measures
>> current and counts amp-hours. It outputs a pulsed signal to show amps on
>> a tach (works great). It has another line that puts out 12v to light up
>> a "low battery" light at some specified threshold and a third one that,
>> I believe, uses PWM to ground to simulate a variable resister to drive
>> the fuel gauge to show SOC.
>> 
>> I have the service manual for the truck and indeed it shows a single
>> wire from the gauge to the sensor in the tank. 22ohms empty and 240ohms
>> full (that's from memory so don't quote me). The problem is it doesn't
>> work. Connecting that wire to ground through any resistance does
>> nothing. The engine computer (PCM) was removed during the initial
>> conversion. The fuel sensor wire also went to the PCM but I don't see
>> anything in the wiring diagram that should influence the gauge. What I
>> have discovered is that I can make the gauge work by supplying voltage
>> rather than a connection to ground. 2volts is empty and 9volts is full.
>> 
>> I haven't got a clue as to the piece of magic that the PCM (or some
>> other wire) must have provided such that the gauge is now "backwards."
>> So I've tried seeing if I can convert the AutoblockAMP signal. My first
>> attempt was to use it as 1/2 of a voltage divider and that sort-of
>> worked except for finding the right value to drive the gauge full scale.
>> Plus  if, while I'm adjusting the ABAMP and I get too close to one end
>> of the scale the resister burns up. My second attempt, thinking it was a
>> PWM signal, was to use a PNP mosfet. That looked promising but isn't
>> driving the gauge linearly enough. It goes from full to empty in the
>> first quarter of the SOC.
>> 
>> 
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[EVDL] Electronics help anyone

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I have a 1998 Ford Ranger (http://evalbum.com/4674) that I bought as a
lead-acid EV and converted it to Lithium. In the process I replaced
almost everything. I bought an AutoblockAMP from RechargeCar (sadly,
discontinued). It's a slick hall-effect current sensor that measures
current and counts amp-hours. It outputs a pulsed signal to show amps on
a tach (works great). It has another line that puts out 12v to light up
a "low battery" light at some specified threshold and a third one that,
I believe, uses PWM to ground to simulate a variable resister to drive
the fuel gauge to show SOC.

I have the service manual for the truck and indeed it shows a single
wire from the gauge to the sensor in the tank. 22ohms empty and 240ohms
full (that's from memory so don't quote me). The problem is it doesn't
work. Connecting that wire to ground through any resistance does
nothing. The engine computer (PCM) was removed during the initial
conversion. The fuel sensor wire also went to the PCM but I don't see
anything in the wiring diagram that should influence the gauge. What I
have discovered is that I can make the gauge work by supplying voltage
rather than a connection to ground. 2volts is empty and 9volts is full.

I haven't got a clue as to the piece of magic that the PCM (or some
other wire) must have provided such that the gauge is now "backwards."
So I've tried seeing if I can convert the AutoblockAMP signal. My first
attempt was to use it as 1/2 of a voltage divider and that sort-of
worked except for finding the right value to drive the gauge full scale.
Plus  if, while I'm adjusting the ABAMP and I get too close to one end
of the scale the resister burns up. My second attempt, thinking it was a
PWM signal, was to use a PNP mosfet. That looked promising but isn't
driving the gauge linearly enough. It goes from full to empty in the
first quarter of the SOC.

So I'm looking for ideas. Any thoughts?

--Rick

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Re: [EVDL] 2nd life for lithium batteries

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 10/17/2016 8:22 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
Maybe you've noticed that as LED retrofit light bulbs have fallen in 
price,

their rated lifetimes have gotten shorter.  The early ones were rated for
50,000 average hours; many now are rated for 10,000-20,000 hours.  The same
thing happened with compact fluorescents, which quickly declined from 10,000
hours to 6,000.


FWIW I haven't noticed that the LED bulbs I've purchased have lasted 
longer than the old incandescents so I pretty much don't believe 
anyone's rated lifetimes.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] New shop

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Congratulations! Sounds like you're having a lot of fun and doing it 
right! I'm envious.


--Rick

On 10/16/2016 7:04 PM, wayne alexander via EV wrote:

Its been a long time since I posted here..things are going great. I will be 
opening a shop in California. Exactly is not sure where ast this time. I will 
be merging with  another group there. We were getting  grant  applied form  the 
state and the Feds. A new building at least 100 x 200 foot is to start. All new 
tooling all CNC

So far I have secured a contract to build a push back tractor for a 747.C5A 
and A380 size. Its a no brainer. We will not be building any cars. I have 
already built a hybrid system for a Ford E450 bus 36 passenger. It has been on 
the road for 6 months now and works like a dream. Also a 17,500 lb delivery 
truck. 3 so far. Believe it or not...0 to 60
Is 9 seconds .We have video of it doing that. Full electric.. 600 volt ac 
system  Allison 6 speed auto trans and a 120 miles range so far.

  They will be buying me out. And I will be working for them for 2 years then I 
can


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Re: [EVDL] Should I Buy a Smart ED or a IMIEV or Chevy Spark?: 2014 Smart ED Service Manual Help

[Rick Beebe via EV]

There's a guy on the Smart Car forums who has created a diagnostic tool 
using an Arduino with a CANBus shield that can read the battery voltage 
of each of the 93 cells, total voltage, various temperatures, 
statistical analysis, all in a few seconds at the stroke of a key.


https://github.com/MyLab-odyssey/ED_BMSdiag

He's clearly figured out some stuff about how the car works.

I'm just finishing up a 3 year lease on a Smart ED and I hate to let it 
go. The car has been flawless for 14,000 miles with only the required 
10,000 mile checkup. Kelly Blue Book lists the resale value at about 
$5,000 so why worry about paying $25,000 for a new battery? If the car 
dies badly, buy a new (used) one. I'm sure batteries out of wrecked ones 
will be showing up in salvage yards or on eBay too.  Car2Go is switching 
out 400 electric Smarts for gas ones. No word on what they're doing with 
the old ones but I bet there's going to be a stock of batteries 
available somewhere.


--Rick

On 10/1/2016 8:10 PM, Mark Hanson via EV wrote:

Hi Folks,

  


I didn't get a response on the service manual or where to get a battery for
the Smart ED 2013 - 2015 (used Smart) so I'm thinking maybe I should buy
something else (since the shop manuals/batteries are made of Unobtanium).
I Googled Service manuals for the Mitsubishi IMIev and Chevy Spark; were
available online like the Leaf.  It also looked like you could monitor
individual battery voltages, not sure if you can do that with the Smart ED.
It looks like Mercedes doesn't want to sell any electric Smart ED's ($25K
for a battery replacement and no Service Manuals available.)  The Smart also
wants $80 per month battery rental that the other EV's don't require.  I
found from EVwest.com that they have 57V Tesla battery replacement modules
for $1k for the 2013 Smart only, 2014 on is the Deutsche ACCUmotive for $25K
replacement.  So maybe I should buy that with a Smart 2013?  Sounds like
that may be the only serviceable Smart unless buying two wrecked one's to
combine parts when the cells start to crap out.  Or maybe like on
EValbum.com convert one from gas like another guy did on an 05' model - but
it would be nice to have regen.

  


From: Mark Hanson [mailto:mhan...@hughes.net]
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 7:45 PM
To: 'ev@lists.evdl.org'
Subject: RE: 2014 Smart ED Service Manual Help

  

  

  


Hi Folks,

  


I was thinking of buying a 2014 Smart ED but I can't find a service
manual/schematics, paid $60 to www.smarttekinfo.com and just a few
pamphlets, marketing fluff.  I tried for about $15 www.ALLDATAdiy.com with
similar results.  Contacting/emailing Smart just got marketing & $80/mo
battery rental info.  I have a Leaf currently and it was easy to
download/print the 3" thick shop manual on battery/charging/traction
controls/schematics but no dice with Smart.  When I called the local
Mercedes dealer they wanted $25K for a battery replacement at the typical
60K miles (the Leaf is $5.5K for a battery replacement).

  


So is the Smart ED a throw-away car that you can't service?  Does anyone
know where to get a *service/shop manual* so I can feel comfortable
servicing like my Leaf?  Does anyone know where to by *battery cells* or
pack for a Smart ED?

  


The local Mercedes dealer said they won't bother with Smarts maybe why their
annual sales were 2K and the Leaf was 20K last year.   It looks like on
www.batteryuniversity.com that the Volt, Leaf and Smart ED are all NMC
(Nickel Manganese Cobalt cathode with a lithium electrolyte and a graphite
anode) so should have about 60k miles life similar to LiFePO4.  The Smart ED
warranty is 4 years 48K miles Smart said without paying $80 battery rent per
month "battery assurance plan" nonsense.

  


I also use LeafSpy but didn't see info app like that for the Smart ED.  I'd
like to replace my electric Ghia www.evalbum.com/4346 soon when it needs $8k
batteries with a $8k 2014 Smart or similar small commuter car to make my 48
miles round trip to work.

  


Have a renewable energy day,

  


Mark

  


Mark E. Hanson

184 Vista Lane

Fincastle, VA 24090

540-473-1248 phone & FAX, 540-816-0812 cell

REEVA: community service RE & EV project club

Website: www.REEVAdiy.org (See Project Gallery)

UL Certified PV Installer

My RE Circuits: www.EVDL.org/lib/mh

  


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Re: [EVDL] Buy UL approved j1772 EVSE: Forget obsolete AVCON EVSE

[Rick Beebe via EV]

The J1772 cord and connectors are so stupid expensive that it's hardly 
worth not buying a whole new EVSE.


If anyone's interested, I have a never-used GE WattStation plug-in EVSE 
with a 20 foot cord that I'll sell for $375 plus shipping.


--Rick

On 9/3/2016 4:50 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/WTB-Semi-obsolete-AVCON-charging-station-tp4683591.html

Keith,

IMO do not bother with converting an AVCON to j1772. Why after you have
modified it, it is no longer UL approved so if there is a fire, the insurer
will opt to not pay out. Plus it can be a head ache to get it working, see
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page=413529=avcon+j1772=12=date

Here are only a couple off-the-shelf j1772 EVSE available:
http://www.lowes.com/pd/GE-DURASTATION-Level-2-30-Amp-Wall-Mounted-Single-Electric-Car-Charger/60327?cm_mmc=SCE_PLA_ONLY-_-RoughPlumbingElectrical-_-SosRenewableEnergy-_-60327:GE==60327=pla_clickID=0abc77b1-99ee-48fe-abf5-3c9f7732c880
$400 25ft cord 30A (6kW) EVSE


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Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Of course we don't really know if there was negotiation or not. It says they 
"rejected the group buy offer" but that could mean they rejected the group buy 
OR they rejected the offer. Maybe they counter-offered and it was too rich for 
the group. Just like we don't really know if the groups hope of $20k was just a 
hope or whether they had actually gotten that number from someone at Nisaan.

--Rick

> On Aug 30, 2016, at 1:23 AM, Mike Nickerson via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> 
> I was surprised that Nissan's answer was "No" instead of a counter offer.  
> Entering into a negotiation would have been appropriate.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
>> On August 29, 2016 7:50:47 PM MDT, Mark Abramowitz via EV 
>> <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>> Amazing that they would embark on such an effort without first talking
>> to Nissan.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from AltaMail
>> 
>> 
>> From: Rick Beebe via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: Electric Vehicle
>> Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez
>> 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose Date:
>> 8/29/16, 6:27 PM
>> 
>> 
>> One has to wonder if the people setting up the group buy pulled that  
>> target price out of their ass. I can sympathize with Nissan if that  
>> price is below wholesale or worse. Are you really losing "sales" if you
>> 
>> would have to actually pay the people to take the cars? I would tout
>> how  
>> much money I saved the company by not giving away the cars at a loss.  
>> And I doubt Tesla will want to tender a group buy for $20k per car when
>> 
>> they've got 400,000 to sell at full list price first. 
>> 
>> --Rick 
>> 
>>> On 8/29/2016 6:12 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: 
>>> In the first week of August, a group of EV lovers in Montreal, Canada
>> set up 
>>> a group-buy effort for the Nissan LEAF. About 2,500 people initially
>> signed 
>>> up for the group-buy deal and the number of interested buyers had
>> climbed up 
>>> to 3,700 by the time their proposal reached the Nissan’s corporate HQ
>> in 
>>> Canada. The main idea of the group buy was to use the strength of
>> numbers 
>>> (almost 4000 orders) as a leverage to get massive discount on the
>> sticker 
>>> price of the car. 
>>> 
>>> The Nissan LEAF has a sticker price of $31,998 (CAD) for the S Trim.
>> The 
>>> members in the group-buy deal were hoping that they could get Nissan
>> to sell 
>>> the car at a $20,000 CAD each. However, in an “understandable” turn
>> of 
>>> events,   Nissan Canada’s president has rejected the group buy offer
>> and 
>>> effectively shut down the plan.
>> 
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Re: [EVDL] Nissan.ca sez 'No' To Leaf-Group-Buy> ticking-off 3700+ EV buyers = a lose-lose

[Rick Beebe via EV]

One has to wonder if the people setting up the group buy pulled that 
target price out of their ass. I can sympathize with Nissan if that 
price is below wholesale or worse. Are you really losing "sales" if you 
would have to actually pay the people to take the cars? I would tout how 
much money I saved the company by not giving away the cars at a loss. 
And I doubt Tesla will want to tender a group buy for $20k per car when 
they've got 400,000 to sell at full list price first.


--Rick

On 8/29/2016 6:12 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

In the first week of August, a group of EV lovers in Montreal, Canada set up
a group-buy effort for the Nissan LEAF. About 2,500 people initially signed
up for the group-buy deal and the number of interested buyers had climbed up
to 3,700 by the time their proposal reached the Nissan’s corporate HQ in
Canada. The main idea of the group buy was to use the strength of numbers
(almost 4000 orders) as a leverage to get massive discount on the sticker
price of the car.

The Nissan LEAF has a sticker price of $31,998 (CAD) for the S Trim. The
members in the group-buy deal were hoping that they could get Nissan to sell
the car at a $20,000 CAD each. However, in an “understandable” turn of
events,   Nissan Canada’s president has rejected the group buy offer and
effectively shut down the plan.


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Re: [EVDL] Electric B-class car

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Well put me in detention for not paying attention. Thanks, as always, 
for the enlightenment. They certainly aren't trumpeting the car though.


The offer shown below at the San Jose dealership is the same terms I got.

--Rick

On 8/16/2016 5:41 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


The Electric B-class was for sale/lease over two years ago
http://insideevs.com/mercedes-benz-b-class-electric-drive-lease-deal-299-per-month/

Also see all the EVLN posts on the Electric B-class:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page=413529=Electric+B-class


A San Jose, CA USA dealership web site sez:
https://www.mboffremont.com/current-offers/
2016 B-Class Electric Drive
$329 /mo for 36 months
  $4,123 due at signing
Offer expires: 8/31/2016


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: eq-what? Mercedes-Benz UK-Trademarks Odd/unmemorable EV Brand Names

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I got a card in the mail on Friday offering me a lease on an 
all-electric B-class car. It took me completely by surprise as I've 
heard nothing about them actually being ready to sell electric vehicles.


--Rick

On 8/16/2016 6:58 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

http://jalopnik.com/mercedes-benz-trademarks-silly-name-for-its-electric-ca-1785161232
Mercedes-Benz Trademarks Silly Name For Its Electric Car Brand
20160811  Kristen Lee


In June, we speculated about how Mercedes-Benz could potentially launch an
electric-only brand. We didn’t have a name for the brand. Now we do. And
it’s really very silly.

EQ. That’s it, according to Auto Express, anyways. Mercedes has filed a
bunch of UK trademark applications this month, with names that use the EQ
prefix.


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Re: [EVDL] Ground Faults

[Rick Beebe via EV]

When I had a lead pack in my truck I had rampant leakage from the pack 
to the frame. I think the acid mist and dirt are conductive. I kept 
trying to find the culprit battery by segmenting the pack and the leak 
would literally just move around.


And I had the same problem as you--it was tripping the GFCI outlet. I 
had to take out the GFCI outlet and install a regular one. (The truck 
had a 110v Russco charger in it).


I don't think LiFePo4 cells are as susceptible although I have heard 
several stories of different makes having conductive cases. When I put 
lithium in the truck put all the cells in insulated boxes. If I have a 
ground fault now it will most likely be carbon buildup in the motor.


--Rick

On 6/1/2016 11:48 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:

I mean EVERYTYHING other than the charger.
There are contactors on both sides of the pack, so the controller and motor are 
fully disconnected.
I also disconnected the volt/amp meter, and BMS (12v power) as well.
Also disconnected the "battery +" wire to the zilla hairball.
Unhooked the DC-DC.

I'm wondering if I'm getting dirt/damp leakage from the pack to the frame.

On Wed Jun 01 18:08:15 PDT 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:

Could you be a little more detailed? You disconnected everything from what? 
Each other? The battery pack? Etc?   If you have a series wound DC motor then 
carbon build up from the brushes can create a path.

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: John Lussmyer via EV  
Date: 6/1/16  7:35 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
 Subject: [EVDL] Ground Faults
Well, I've discovered that my truck has a ground fault of some kind in it 
somewhere.
For a long time, I've been charging off the Welder outlet in my shop.  I 
recently installed a nice big 240v 60A GFCI breaker for a charging outlet at 
the house.
The GFCI trips every time I try to charge.  It doesn't trip if I plug a welder 
into the outlet.

Poking around the pack with a voltmeter, I get some solid voltage readings to 
the frame of the truck.
So, I started disconnecting things.  Disconnected everything except the charger 
(kinda need that!).
Still trips the GFCI.
Still getting weak voltage readings from various points in the pack.  (Not 
always consistent, not always constant.)

Running out of ideas...

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Re: [EVDL] Fwd: Steve Clunn's 1st Factor EV

[Rick Beebe via EV]

My truck has a manual "armstrong" bed lift kit installed. It does use 
two really long hydraulic struts to help lift and to hold it up but it 
still takes a lot of muscle to get it moving. However I'd never consider 
doing a pickup conversion without some kind of lift installed. Nor would 
I put the batteries in the bed.


--Rick

On 5/26/2016 4:44 PM, Mike Beem via EV wrote:

We did that with the 1 that I did; since it was going to be a small farm
utility vehicle we made an (over-complicated) hydraulic lift for the bed &
mounted the batteries down along the inside of the frame on both sides. The
subsequent 2 owners I knew of did use that function for a lightweight dump
truck, but mostly, it made checking & servicing all of those golf cart
batteries much easier. I saw it done on another one without the hydraulics,
but it took more muscle power than most people could do by themselves. It
is SO worth the work & expense though to, 1) reclaim the usable bed space,
&, 2) lower the center of gravity (made it handle much better).
Michael B



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Re: [EVDL] Returning my 2012 lease today with some info and suprises.

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I just traded my leased 2013 Ford C-Max Energi for a 2015 one. They 
tried to hit me with $250 excessive wear because the inspection report 
claimed the nose and fenders were "covered with template." Template? Its 
sounds to me like the inspection company didn't even bother to fill in 
the boilerplate form and that everyone gets hit with "excessive wear." 
My car had 28k miles and was in immaculate shape. I talked to someone at 
Ford and they agreed with me but the issue was moot because they waive 
that fee if you lease another car through Ford Finance, which I had done.


Right now is an amazing time to get a C-Max Energi because Ford has some 
huge rebates and incentives going on for another week or so. My lease 
was supposed to end in June (3 more payments) but the salesman convinced 
me to end early. I got a 2015 and said incentives reduced the price by 
$11,500. Connecticut has a cash back program for PHEV and EVs right now 
that gave me $1500 for the downpayment. The car is virtually identical 
to the 2013 but is costing me $150 less per month AND they sent me a 
check for $2000. Gotta love getting paid to take a car! I did have to 
pay the last 3 payments which totaled $1300 but I'm still way ahead. 
There seem to be no changes in the car from 2013 to 2016. I chose a 2015 
because there was $4000 more incentives.


A PHEV is a different animal, of course, but I didn't notice any EV 
range reduction over the 28k miles.


--Rick

On 03/29/2016 01:50 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

I'm returning my Leaf today. It's been great but the battery has
stopped putting out full charge.  To prove this I put Leaf Spy  on
it.  It shows 88.5% when fully charged.  When my 2013 is fully
charged it shows 97.3%.  This is a significant difference.  2013 has
6k miles on the pack.  2012 has almost 39k.  Another thing to watch
coming off lease is damage to your leased vehicle before you leased
it.  My inspector found differences in paint on one side of my 2012.
The quarter panel was painted.  He said we had the vehicle repaired
in a substandard way.  We said...WHAT?. This car has never been
in a wreck.  So instead of the couple hundred dollars of usual bumps
and bruises most returns get we are getting socked with 200
additional dollars for paint that is substandard.  So now we have to
fight Nissan over where this damage came from.  They obviously did a
lousy job but not so lousy that we caught it.  It took an expert.
Lawrence Rhodes

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: UK racer Lewis Hamilton likes to drive his Smart EV in Monaco.mc

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 03/23/2016 04:22 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


HE drives faster than anyone on the planet, his clothes probably cost more
than most people’s cars and he goes to parties you wouldn’t be able to get
into if you haven’t signed thousands of autographs in your life.

But as cool as Lewis Hamilton is, he has a distinctly uncool secret. Well,
it’s not a secret anymore.

Before qualifying at the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne, the 31-year-old
revealed something you wouldn’t have expected of the man.

“What model are you driving at the moment, as a road car?” Hamilton was
asked.

“A smart car,” said Hamilton. “I have a smart electric.


Me and him both. Too bad I don't have the rest of his lifestyle!

--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] battery box

[Rick Beebe via EV]

There are a couple here.

http://www.evalbum.com/4674

Let me know if you want to see more or have questions.

--Rick

On 03/14/2016 03:05 PM, Lev Lvovsky wrote:

Any chance you have pictures of the boxes that you had made?

thanks!
-lev


On Mar 14, 2016, at 8:34 AM, Rick Beebe via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

On 03/12/2016 12:30 PM, Willie2 via EV wrote:

I'm looking for a source for a weather tight, probably fiberglass, box.
About 4'x6' and 2' high with a lift-up top.  Can anyone suggest?  Some
custom fiberglass shop?


I had www.customaluminumboxes.com make me perfectly sized welded aluminum boxes. I'm very 
impressed with the quality and as a portion of the total cost of the conversion they were 
economical. I made them 2" larger than the cells in all directions and lined with 
them 1" of insulation. I primed them and then painted the outside with spray on 
truck bed liner. Very durable and they appear to be a factory fixture. This was my third 
winter and the batteries are as clean as when I took them out of the shipping crates.

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Re: [EVDL] battery box

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 03/12/2016 12:30 PM, Willie2 via EV wrote:

I'm looking for a source for a weather tight, probably fiberglass, box.
About 4'x6' and 2' high with a lift-up top.  Can anyone suggest?  Some
custom fiberglass shop?


I had www.customaluminumboxes.com make me perfectly sized welded 
aluminum boxes. I'm very impressed with the quality and as a portion of 
the total cost of the conversion they were economical. I made them 2" 
larger than the cells in all directions and lined with them 1" of 
insulation. I primed them and then painted the outside with spray on 
truck bed liner. Very durable and they appear to be a factory fixture. 
This was my third winter and the batteries are as clean as when I took 
them out of the shipping crates.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] What brand & model car was burned in a Vacaville-CA garage fire?

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 03/11/2016 06:10 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:



Here's metal-exercise/brain teaser - what brand and model car is shown in
the story image below. The Vacaville FD rep sez its an Electric, but they
often get confused calling any non-ice vehicle an Electric. My thinking is
the burnt vehicle could be: an EV, pih, hev, cng, or possibly a fcv.


One of the comments to the article says it was a Solectria Force and 
based on the photos I tend to agree. The shape of the tail lights and 
the curve of the rear pillar match.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN status ... EV-news-drought ... We've been spoiled ...

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 03/11/2016 03:45 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

IMO, the dark horse here is China.  They look set to become the world's
largest producer of EVs, as long as their government doesn't cave to oil
interests.


I just read that BYD was the largest producer of EVs last year. I think 
the Chinese government is feeling INTENSE pressure to cut its carbon 
emissions and curb air pollution and I think there's a lot of incentive 
for them to favor EVs in that battle.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] Ensure your spent li-ion batteries are properly recycled/disposed-of

[Rick Beebe via EV]

There will be a problem because we're talking about thousands of cars 
being disposed of and I just don't see a market for that many used 
battery packs. It's going to get to the point where the salvage places 
will have to pay to have them taken away for recycling. Certainly there 
are going to be opportunities for companies to "recycle" used packs into 
something else like pre-packaged house or business systems but I still 
think we're going to have a glut of used packs.


Things will get worse the first time a hastily put together backup power 
back burns a house down and everyone attempting to re-use them realizes 
they need to implement proper battery management. Plus as battery 
chemistry and technology changes the older ones will become even less 
valuable.


We may not see a problem for five or ten years but I predict we will see 
a problem.


--Rick

On 02/14/2016 07:17 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

I won't speak for mobile phone and laptop batteries, but when we're
talking about traction batteries, I don't think there will be a problem.

First, the car owner will be done with the battery well before its
useful life is over.  So he'll swap it or junk the car with the battery
in it.

Next, whoever receives the partially spent battery will have a strong
incentive to resell it for backup power, or whatever.  So he's not going
to send it to a landfill.  Also, too heavy: the dump charge would be
significant.

Third, whoever buys the spent battery for backup power will eventually
have the ultimate disposal problem.  If these are home owners, then
there could be a problem.  However, again, the dump charge would be high
so finding a place to take them for recycling is a good incentive.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Fastest cedar log e-racer> Guinness World Record holder

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Wow, they managed to get a 2,000 pound car up to 48mph. I have to wonder 
if it's really a 20,000 pound car.


--Rick

On 02/10/2016 03:14 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:



% Cedar Rocket EV> RX-8 pinnings, E-drive, 2 e-turbines %

The final speed on the first ever run of the motorized log, was 76.625 kph
(47.64 mph) - smashing the required benchmark of 50 kph to set a new
Guinness World Records title - an impressive feat when taking into account
the 2,000 pound weight of the car.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Smart fortwo EV Batteries' second-life @Work> a win-win

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I AM driving a Smart ED and I too thought that sounded a bit fishy and I 
too disagree that regular cycling is "good" for the batteries.


BUT one thing that sets Smart apart is that the battery is rented 
(optionally but most folks choose it). I'm leasing my Smart and I have 
to send two checks every month: one to Mercedes Benz leasing for the car 
and a second one to Daimler for the battery rent. If there's ever a 
problem with the battery they have to install a replacement for "free". 
Nothing says it has to be new although I would be upset if it had 
significantly less capacity than the old one. If they really keep a 
stock of batteries on the shelf to satisfy rental replacement then 
perhaps it does make sense to get some money out of them by using them 
for this purpose. That assumes, of course, that it's easy for them to 
pull the batteries out of the power-plant to install in my car.


--Rick

On 02/09/2016 03:32 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 9 Feb 2016 at 4:21, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


  To be usable in the event of a replacement, a battery requires regular
cyclising during its storage period, i.e. specific charging and
discharging for the purpose of preservation. Otherwise it would suffer
from deep discharging, which can lead to battery defects.


Huh?  Who said that lithium ion batteries needed to be cycled (or
'cyclised') while in storage?   Aren't they OK when stored at around 40-70%
SOC?

The way I heard this deal a few years ago, the idea was that when the
battery capacity was too low for use in an EV, the battery would be demoted
to grid leveling service.

Unless this "reporter" is as clueless about this Diamler notion as he is
about how steam cars worked, in Diamler's world, it's the other way round.

I don't think that's a world I'm interested in joining, thank you.

It sounds like if I'm driving a Smart ED (love that designation) and I need
a new battery, I can't have one.  Diamler will sell me a USED battery, one
that's been doing grid leveling for some time already.  Are they going to
give me a price reduced by the proportion of already-used cycle life?

Something smells kind of foul here.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] SHielded 1/0

[Rick Beebe via EV]

EVWest sells it for $9.49/foot. EVTV is $11.95/foot. I doubt you'll find 
anything significantly less expensive. I elected to use unshielded to 
save some money and also measured very carefully by using rope before I 
ordered the cable. I still ordered a couple feet extra and I have a 
single 18" piece left over. It wasn't cheap but it also wasn't the most 
significant expense by far.


You don't need to stress over the connectors, though. They're all the 
same whether you use shielded cable or not.


--Rick

On 02/03/2016 03:08 PM, m gol via EV wrote:

I was looking for something like this:
http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=XRADXLE10


On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Cor van de Water via EV 
wrote:


What type you want? Must it be waterproof?
STP (Shielded Twisted Pair) is common for outdoor Ethernet installations
and there are ways to water-proof the connectors (using glands that seal
on the cable so the Modular connector sits inside a weather-protected
environment)

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of m gol via EV
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 11:34 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] SHielded 1/0

Are there any inexpensive place for shielded 1/0 cable and connectors?

Mike
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Re: [EVDL] Electric Microlino> The 'Bubble Car' Reborn Electric

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 01/27/2016 01:33 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

  Space-saving urban vehicle, in places where there is not much space


I suspect that the Smart ED (great choice of initials there) might have that
niche locked up already.  It's not a very big niche, either. Last year Smart
sold 1,387 of them.

(Actually it reminds me a little more of the City-EL and Sinclair C5.)

Can you tell I'm skeptical?  It's an interesting idea, guys, but I'm afraid
you have a big challenge ahead.


I have a Smart ED and I like it a lot. I've been enamored with the old 
BMW version of this Lifestyle car when I first saw it--mostly because of 
the novelty of the front-opening door--but I wouldn't trade my Smart for 
it. I get plenty of comments about the perceived lack of protection in 
the Smart. I see far less in this "car".


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] I do miss Bob Rice ......

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I consider it a great honor that I joined the New England Electric Auto 
Association (NEEAA) when Bob was president of the chapter. The meetings 
were held at his house and he always cooked up a rockin' chili. The 
collection of odds-and-ends and vehicles at his place was always very 
interesting. And he told great stories--full of those malapropisms. He 
was a master at that.


Someone brought a cheap, small, chinese-built electric scooter to one of 
the meetings and it was quite amusing watching Bob take it for a test 
drive. For those who never met him, Bob was a huge guy. I guess about 6' 
4" and probably 300 pounds. We were fairly amazed that the scooter 
didn't collapse and more amazed that the little 500watt motor was 
actually able to move him around quite well.


--Rick


On 01/10/2016 08:20 PM, Bill Dube via EV wrote:



Bob Rice used to call them "Trojan Teakettles."  ;-)




 I do indeed miss Bob Rice. He couldn't speak a sentence that didn't
include some colorful saying or witty malapropism.

 We each could tell countless stories about Bob Rice.

Bill Dube'

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Re: [EVDL] Bew Nissan Leaf...and...Level 2 charging

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 01/07/2016 01:51 AM, Seth Rothenberg via EV wrote:


I would like to hear what people are doing for L2 charging at home?
I see that evseupgrade offers an upgrade of the L1 charger...
about $300

They also offer pre-upgraded chargers for about $675
which would give me the option of leaving one home
and keeping one in the car, which seems important
at this time.

Meanwhile, Clipper Creek offers some chargers,
no "Core return" required.
I have not seen reviews of either one yet


I have two OpenEVSEs that I built from kits 
(http://store.openevse.com/). Over the years Chris has really improved 
the level of integration in the kits. When I built my first one I had to 
source most of the parts myself--he was basically just providing the 
control board. Now you can get the entire thing from him. About $450 for 
the 30 amp version with a 25 foot cable.


I also have a ClipperCreek HCS-40P which is $589. Yes, I charge 3 
electric vehicles.


All three work great. I prefer the OpenEVSE because it has a text 
display that tells me what's going on. The ClipperCreek is outside and 
used for my Ford Ranger conversion. I recently had a battery heating pad 
break and short to ground. They are powered by the incoming AC and so 
that generated a charge fault. The ClipperCreek's simple red light 
wasn't a lot of help in debugging.


I have a GE WattStation for sale if anyone wants one. It's the plug-in 
model sold by Lowes. I got a deal when our Lowes decided to stop 
carrying them but I've decided I'm not going to use it and it's taking 
up space in the garage. It's still in the (somewhat beat up) box. $425 
plus shipping. It was $799 at Lowes and now sells for $545 new.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] Repairs Needed

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Newer versions of their design use two relays, one on each leg, to guard 
against a relay failure and to allow self-checks one leg at a time. They 
sell a 30A set of 2 for $19.50.


--Rick

On 12/10/2015 09:36 PM, Tom Keenan wrote:

I've made an open EVSE as well.  They work great.  Just make sure you get a 
main relay of sufficient capacity, as the first one I built only had a 20 amp / 
240v (4.8 kW) max.  Installing a 30 amp version takes the same amount of time 
and physical space, and only costs a few dollars more.

Tom Keenan


On Dec 10, 2015, at 5:46 PM, Rick Beebe via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

If it was me and ClipperCreek didn't give me the response I wanted I'd take out 
the board and replace it with an OpenEVSE. I've built two OpenEVSE units and 
they've both worked flawlessly.

http://store.openevse.com/ and https://code.google.com/p/open-evse/

--Rick


On 12/9/2015 4:46 PM, Steven Lough via EV wrote:
Afternoon EVDL,  from a very soggy Seattle:

Can any one REPAIR my ClipperCreek LSC-25 ?

It was on the north side of our home here in Seattle, where it has operated for 
over 2 years.,
and was out of harms way by weather for the most part.

But if any one has been following the Weather in the Pacific NW, we have 
hadFLOODS,  Mud Slides, and record rain fall.

So water finally got into the bottom of the unit.  And no amount of drying and 
cleaning has brought it back to LIFE.

Only an inch or so of the bottom of the circuit board was exposed to water, and 
ruined several components

Have not found any one who could replace or source the board. Have a inquiry 
into ClipperCreek.

A whole NEW unit is $379.  But the cord, the housing and alike are all OK.
Shame to buy a whole new unit for the lack of a new board.

Pictures of the Unit, and the damage at the bottom of the board can be seen at:
( https://www.flickr.com/photos/23079348@N08/sets/72157662078004711/ )



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Re: [EVDL] Repairs Needed

[Rick Beebe via EV]

If it was me and ClipperCreek didn't give me the response I wanted I'd 
take out the board and replace it with an OpenEVSE. I've built two 
OpenEVSE units and they've both worked flawlessly.


http://store.openevse.com/ and https://code.google.com/p/open-evse/

--Rick

On 12/9/2015 4:46 PM, Steven Lough via EV wrote:

Afternoon EVDL,  from a very soggy Seattle:

Can any one REPAIR my ClipperCreek LSC-25 ?

 It was on the north side of our home here in Seattle, where it has 
operated for over 2 years.,

and was out of harms way by weather for the most part.

But if any one has been following the Weather in the Pacific NW, we 
have hadFLOODS,  Mud Slides, and record rain fall.


So water finally got into the bottom of the unit.  And no amount of 
drying and cleaning has brought it back to LIFE.


Only an inch or so of the bottom of the circuit board was exposed to 
water, and ruined several components


Have not found any one who could replace or source the board. Have a 
inquiry into ClipperCreek.


A whole NEW unit is $379.  But the cord, the housing and alike are all 
OK.

 Shame to buy a whole new unit for the lack of a new board.

Pictures of the Unit, and the damage at the bottom of the board can be 
seen at:

( https://www.flickr.com/photos/23079348@N08/sets/72157662078004711/ )



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Re: [EVDL] Coal in Your Stocking

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 12/6/2015 12:17 PM, Bill Dube via EV wrote:
3) The furnace had to be "stoked" multiple times per day. You might be 
lucky and have an automatic system that fed coal into the furnace and 
perhaps was somehow regulated by demand (and not manually.) If you 
were not so lucky, you had to hand stoke the furnace. This meant that 
every few hours you had to go down to the basement and shovel coal 
into the furnace. The automatic stoker was a complicated mechanical 
device that required significant routine maintenance.


One of my favorite moments in the move "A Christmas Story" is Darren 
McGavin running to the basement screaming "It's a clinker!!"


Installing an oil tank in the basement and an oil burner was a matter 
of convenience, not economics. The basement smelled of diesel (fuel) 
oil instead of coal and ash, and occasionally there would be some 
trouble with the monthly oil delivery. An overfilled, or burst oil 
tank was not an uncommon occurrence and would fill the basement with 
diesel oil. There are safeguards in place to prevent over filling (a 
whistle on the vent that would stop when the tank was full or there 
was some other malfunction) but oil delivery folks are not always the 
most attentive, if you can imagine.


In the past decade they overfilled my tank twice. The house stinks for 
weeks although copious application of kitty litter and baking powder do 
eventually take care of it. The stuff also stripped the paint right off 
the tank. Bare shiny metal where it ran down. That was part of the 
reason I had that taken out 3 years ago and an air-source heat pump put in.


--Rick

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Red Auto-Tech aims Oz-built rugged electric-SUV r:120mi

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 12/01/2015 01:00 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 1 Dec 2015 at 5:34, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


powered by ... four in-wheel motors, and a new two-speed transmission.


Eh?  Leaving aside the well known (though apparently not to these folks)
wheel motor problem of unsprung mass, why would they need a transmission
with wheel motors?


I noticed that too. And an off-road vehicle is probably the worse place 
for heavy wheels.



Van de Loo predicts funding will come from the private sector until
the car maker is able to hold an initial public offering.


Yeah, so have hundreds of other EV startups.  Good luck with that.


Agreed.


... range of over 120 miles ... base price of [US}$60,000 ...


Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see a market for this EV.


Probably not but lots of Australia has plenty of sunshine and a dearth 
of road. And gas is expensive. So it may have more appeal than most of 
us in the US think. But I think that price is probably a deal killer 
especially for something you're going to go trashing in the outback.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Red Auto-Tech aims Oz-built rugged electric-SUV r:120mi

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 12/01/2015 01:00 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 1 Dec 2015 at 5:34, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


powered by ... four in-wheel motors, and a new two-speed transmission.


Eh?  Leaving aside the well known (though apparently not to these folks)
wheel motor problem of unsprung mass, why would they need a transmission
with wheel motors?


I noticed that too. And an off-road vehicle is probably the worse place 
for heavy wheels.



Van de Loo predicts funding will come from the private sector until
the car maker is able to hold an initial public offering.


Yeah, so have hundreds of other EV startups.  Good luck with that.


Agreed.


... range of over 120 miles ... base price of [US}$60,000 ...


Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see a market for this EV.


Probably not but lots of Australia has plenty of sunshine and a dearth 
of road. And gas is expensive. So it may have more appeal than most of 
us in the US think. But I think that price is probably a deal killer 
especially for something you're going to go trashing in the outback.


--Rick
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[EVDL] EV Tax (was Re: EVLN: Electric car pollution calculator)

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 11/14/2015 04:32 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


http://savannahnow.com/share/blog-post/mary-landers/2015-11-12/electric-car-pollution-calculator
Electric car pollution calculator
2015-11-12  Mary Landers


I also had to pay the newly instituted Georgia electric vehicle fuel tax in
September, a flat $200. That works out to a 50% addition to the price of
fueling the vehicle, so I'm up to about 1.5 cents per mile.


Georgia charges 26 cents per gallon fuel tax so that $200 is the same 
amount of tax as buying 770 gallons of gas. If you're an "average" 
driver who drives 15,000 miles per year you have to be driving something 
that gets 19mpg to use that much fuel. Not unreasonable if you're the 
typical person driving a pickup truck but people driving EVs tend to be 
more energy conscious. If you were in a Prius you'd have to drive about 
38,000 miles to rack up $200 in fuel tax.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] article: Tomorrow an electric plane will fly the English Channel for the first time

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Well technically Solar Impulse hasn't crossed the channel yet. It 
started in Abu Dhabi heading eastward and is now in Hawaii. Certainly 
crossing half of the Pacific beats the hell out of crossing the Channel, 
though.


--Rick

On 07/09/2015 08:39 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

What about the solar plane that is making a trip around the world?
Or is this the technicality that it is required to land in UK and immediately 
across the canal
so a plane flying around the world and touching down only sporadically is not 
considered
the first electric plane to cross the canal?

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Re: [EVDL] Last call for LeSled

[Rick Beebe via EV]

It's not really a new problem. It's always been hard to find someone 
interested in buying a conversion, except, perhaps, from with your local 
EV interest group.


One of the members of our local EAA chapter converted a 1998 Ford Ranger 
in 2007. 120 volt, 24 6-volt lead-acid batteries, Russco Charger, DCP 
Raptor controller and 9 motor. He spent about $15,000 including the 
truck and used it to commute 22 miles to work. In the winter, though, 
his range was insufficient so he had to drive his ICE car. He replaced 
the pack in 2012 for another $2500 or so. When the Leaf came out he 
bought one and it served all his commuting needs to he put the truck up 
for sale for $12000. 18 months later I bought it for $6000.


I have no interest in lead-acid weight, I drove it for a few months then 
took it apart to put lithium in. While I thought it would be easy--take 
out one set of batteries and put in another--in the end I ended up 
replacing everything except the motor, controller and vacuum pump and 
added a lot of things to make it much less of a science experiment. I've 
invested about $10,000 above the purchase price.


Would anyone here give me $16,000 for it? Even $10,000? Sadly, I doubt 
it. And while it's a very nice near-factory-quality EV now, it's still 
17 years old. Last week I had a brake line fail and when I pulled the 
rear drums off I found one full of oil from a leaking axle seal. $1300 
later I have brand new brakes and lines on the whole rear of the truck. 
But who knows what's next.


--Rick

On 06/14/2015 08:42 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:



This is the state of used home built EVs.  No interest.  The parts in
this vehicle are worth 10 k.  What a shame.  With the right pack this
vehicle out range and perform any factory EV.  It will also be better
when the factory EV is broken as it will be fixable by the owner or
any ev converter.  The factory ev will cost big bucks to fix.  When
people realize this conversations will rise in value.  Lawrence
Rhodes

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Re: [EVDL] Bicycle battery

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I put a Battery Tender 10Ah 12v replacement battery in my EV and it's 
been working great. Very small and very light. Three would cost $300 so 
it's not as cheap as the Chinese duct-tape packs you can buy off eBay 
but has the advantage that you can replace it in thirds if needed.


--Rick

On 06/15/2015 12:12 PM, Willie2 via EV wrote:

A battery for my Prodeco bicycle turned up dead.  The OEM replacement is
nearly $500.  Can someone point me toward a better solution?  36v,
~10ah.  Has anyone heard of anyone doing cell replacements?

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Re: [EVDL] FW: Design News: Why Aren't Electrical Cars Sales Better? It's the battery.

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I would argue that you're living or working in the wrong place. 42 miles 
each way is a waste of your time and of gasoline or electricity.


--Rick

On 05/19/2015 01:05 PM, Arak Leatham via EV wrote:

I admit I'm not sure how that plays out for everyone.

I had the decision myself recently, I drive 42 miles each way. I had
to balance out a moderate credit score and a super tight budget, and
monthly costs. And I don't want or have the ability to charge at my
work location. (unless it were flow batteries and as easy as petrol,
5min ok, 10min not so much)

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Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 05/14/2015 12:21 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:
Worse...I don't think I've ever seen anything bigger than a 220V / 50A 
breaker in a residential panel -- though, granted, I'm certainly not 
an electrician. 


I have an 80A breaker in my panel for the 15Kw backup heat in our 
air-source heat pump.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Might be worth checking out the lease options. I'm leasing a Smart ED 
for $124/mo with $250 down. A Smart's not the best freeway car but it's 
great around town. I've seen deals on Leafs for under $250/month.


--Rick

On 05/06/2015 04:50 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:

So, my parents are okay. But, apparently, their '89 Lincoln Town car might not 
be...somebody pulled out of a driveway in front of them faster than could be 
avoided...resulting in smoke coming from the engine compartment and suspected 
possible frame damage.

So...if the insurance company winds up totaling the car, as we suspect they 
might...can anybody suggest an inexpensive EV suited to a retired couple?

It would need to be freeway-capable with a reliable won't strand-them 50-ish 
mile range in a Phoenix summer with modest air conditioning usage.

The biggest potential problem would be budget...they're on a fixed income. They 
have some, but not much, money they can supplement an insurance settlement 
with, and I can probably pitch in a few pennies. I'm hoping the used market is 
mature enough that there might be something worthwhile there.

Suggestions most appreciated.

Thanks,

b

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Re: [EVDL] OT: how is performance of Ford plugin Cmax vehicles?

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I have a 2013 C-MAX Energi with 18,000 miles on it. No real complaints. 
I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.


--Rick

On 04/24/2015 07:50 PM, Ed Thorpe via EV wrote:

Hello,


Has anyone on the list bought a ford plugin cmax car or suv? I'm
familier with how the toyotas are performing and holding up. Wonder
how ford's models are doing.


Ed


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Re: [EVDL] Comparing battery-model pack-configurations : Time for battery change

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 3/28/2015 6:48 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

From: Roger Daisley
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015
After five years in my '86 VW Cabbie, my 96v flooded pack is ready for
replacement. I plan on adding two more batteries under the back seat floor,
using the Electro-Automotive kit, boosting to 108v.

My question to this group is: Should I be considering Lithium, or should I
wait for the next battery replacement cycle? I am thinking the Lithium pack
will be around $7000. Is this about right?
]
[..much deleted.]
It states a 40 mile range and does 25 miles typically (that explains how
your pack lasted so long; you did not use it that much and now that it is
tired, its range can be reduced to ~25 miles and still works for you. But if
you make a pack voltage change, you will have-to change your WA lic-plate
from 96 volt  your 96-volt.com web site URL.

 [. more deleted]


Different configurations compared:

24 US1800 56lb 107min@75A batteries weighs: 1416lbs
The 144V pack would have (1.783*75*6*24= )  19.256kWh
A gain of ~2.48kWh and 344lbs

20 US2000 59lb 114min@75A batteries weighs: 1180lbs
The 120V pack would have (1.9*75*6*20= )17.100kWh
A gain of ~.324kWh and 108lbs

18 US125 67lb 140min@75A batteries weighs:  1206lbs
The 108V pack would have (2.33*75*6*18= )   18.900kWh
A gain of ~2kWhs and 134lbs
I personally wouldn't hesitate to go lithium. Much lower maintenance and 
weight. Virtually no peukert effect. You can use 80% of the battery 
instead of 50%. However they need a different charge algorithm so you 
may need to spend more on a new charger as well. I have CALB CA100FI 
cells in my truck and I'm happy with them. To sort-of duplicate Bruce's 
table:


45 CA100FI 7.5lb cells weigh: 338 lbs
The 144 volt pack would have 11520 kWh
Cost about $6000

38 CA100FI 7.5lb cells weigh: 285 lbs
The 120 volt pack would have 9600 kWh
Cost about $5000

34 CA100FI 7.5lb cells weigh: 255 lbs
The 108 volt pack would have 8640 kWh
Cost about $4600

My prices are high because I estimated shipping. I didn't include BMS or 
charger. Figure another $2000 if you need them both. The kWh may seem 
low (it's 80% of the theoretical maximum) but realize your vehicle will 
weight 7-800 pounds less than it does now. You may also be able to fit 
all the cells in the space your current batteries take up without having 
to add any new boxes. When I converted my truck I went from 14 batteries 
under the bed and 10 under the hood to 45 lithium cells under the bed. I 
also spent a lot of time repairing acid-induced rot. Never again.


--Rick



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Re: [EVDL] Cold Charging Lithium Experiences

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 02/25/2015 01:18 PM, Danpatgal via EV wrote:

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list wrote

An example is Powerstream
Batteries lt;http://www.powerstream.com/LLLF.htmgt; show in their
specifications charge down to -40 C.


I just looked at that, and I read the charge temperature range to be from 0
C to 40 C.  Am I reading that wrong. I just checked the CALB (LiFePO4)
specifications I have, and they state charging is allowed from 0 C to 45 C.
Spring can't come soon enough.


You're reading it correctly: 0C to 40C for charge. -10C to 60C for 
discharge. It is confusingly written, though.


The CALB CAs are, as you state 0C to 45C for charge, -20C to 55C for 
discharge.That extra -20C is why I chose to only heat my batteries when 
the truck is plugged in. I'm not particularly concerned about them 
getting cold during the day while I'm parked at work.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] Feasibility: Converting a Subaru Sambar Micro Van to Electric?

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Nice. A guy I know here used to have a newer version of that converted

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Re: [EVDL] Feasibility: Converting a Subaru Sambar Micro Van to Electric?

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Ugh. didn't mean to hit the send button...

Nice little vehicle.



1) Not aerodynamic, but fairly light weight at 1600lbs (less without
the ICE), would this be a good car to convert?


A guy I know here used to have a newer version of
that converted to electric. I think it would be a great conversion if 
it's reasonably mechanically sound.



2) The ECVT transmission is failing, so the thought is to do a
transmissionless conversion - I've read that this is frowned upon,
but would it be a deal breaker here?


It will create the need for higher amp draw during startup and may lead 
to sluggish acceleration (all depending on motor and batteries) but I 
think it would be fine for your environment. Realize, though, that you 
may be driving the motor too slow for maximum efficiency (wheels turn 
roughly 800rpm at 50mph). The motor I cite below gives maximum torque 
between 0 and 2800 rpm and its most efficient speed is really around 
3000 rpm.



3) We only need it to go a maximum range of about 25 miles (and often
less than that) two or three times a week. The max speed we've ever
driven the car is 50mph, and typically our average speed is 35mph.
Traffic is light where we are, no hills. What kind of motor,
controller, and battery would be recommended for this? (The bed
underneath the rear passenger seats almosts looks as if it was made
to accommodate batteries, so I think battery size is not a problem if
they can lie flat, if not, I can just put them upright somewhere in
the cargo bay)

4) Roughly how much would this cost for the parts?


Of course I don't know about suppliers and such in Japan but if it was 
mine here's what I would use:


Motor  controller: HPEVS AC-35 w/1238-7601 $3500

Charger: Thunderstruck motors PFC-II 2500 and Charge Controller: $750

Batteries: CALB CA100FI either 23 for 72volts $4100
or 34 for 108volts $5100

DC-DC Converter: Elcon 400W: $230

Figure another $1000 - $2000 for things like wiring, fuses, battery 
connectors, instrumentation. I suspect it doesn't have power steering or 
power brakes so you probably don't need to install a vacuum pump or 
power steering pump.



5) The paint on our roof is peeling a bit, so this seems like the
ideal time to also throw a solar panel array on the top of the roof
if we make it into an EV. While not expected to charge the car fully,
I was thinking it could recharge the car somewhat (we have an
uncovered parking spot that gets good sunlight - apart from the rainy
season - and sometimes don't drive the car for a day or two) between
drives. There is also an EV quick charge station near our place. Any
thoughts on this?


I've never been sold on the concept except using a small one to keep the 
12 volt battery charged. Adding a solar controller to charge a high 
voltage pack from a relatively small panel adds a lot of cost for little 
gain. I'd invest the money in the connector to allow you to use the EV 
quick charge station.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] 120240v (kit/assembled) battery charger? (Open source?)

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Wow that's a pretty good looking unit for a good price. When I converted 
my truck from lead-acid to lithium (and a new charger) I also put in a 
J-1772 and I'm happy I did. The J-1772 signal processing is handled by a 
ModularEV AVC2 which is inexpensive and has performed flawlessly. Having 
that built into the charger is a nice feature but I wouldn't buy a 
charger just because of that.


--Rick

On 01/30/2015 11:46 AM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:

On 01/29/2015 11:00 PM, Don Bradley via EV wrote:

Jay,

 You may want to look at this charger for sale from Thunderstruck:

http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/pfc-ii-2500-and-charge-controller.html



Thanks! I'm willing to go down to 2.5kW for that cost savings.

Plus the compactness is nice for my application..

Unless somebody chimes in with horror stories about this charger, I
think this is my new front runner...

Also, the integrated j1772 signal decoding is a nice feature should I
ever decide to move to that standard inlet (away from my current $25
twistlock connectors...which are hard to beat for cost, but can't plug
into L2 chargers that are starting to show up around town...) And the
ability to replace a MiniBMS head board is very nice as well! I was
looking at that when I switch to LiIon...

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Re: [EVDL] 120240v (kit/assembled) battery charger? (Open source?)

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Also check out Jehu's travails with it on http://www.electricsamba.com/

Personally I went with a CAN-Bus controlled TC Charger and Arduino-based 
controller. I bought this 4kW one:


http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=168vcharger

It's $1895. A 3kW one is only $1395

http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=203vcharger

It's been rock solid, charges on 120v or 240v and is easily 
configurable. The source code is available if you want to modify how it 
works.


There's also a crew out there documenting the CAN-bus messages used by 
the Lear chargers in the Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf. Those are showing 
up in junkyards and are fairly inexpensive.


--Rick


On 01/29/2015 02:09 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV wrote:

There are 277 pages to that thread
I would check out the thread before committing to building it.

Rush
Tucson AZ



-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Rod Hower via EV
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 11:41 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 120240v (kit/assembled) battery charger? (Open source?)

Jay,
I would check this one out, it meets all of your requirements
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/10kw-60a-diy-charger-
open-source-59210.html

they have kits and detailed info here,
http://www.emotorwerks.com/tech/electronics



On Thursday, January 29, 2015 11:18 AM, Jay Summet via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:



I'm looking to buy a kit (or an assembled) battery charger for a 120v lead

acid

system, with an eye to upgrading to a LiIon system in the future (also near

120-130

volts, limited by my controller/motor combo).

Requirements:
   -Must support customizable charging curves that I can tweak between Lead

Acid

and LiIon or differing number of cells.

   -Must be able to auto-switch / auto-sense 120 vs 240 volt feeds.
Most likely, this will mean it has a PFC front end.
   I specifically do NOT want to have to switch cables around.
(Ideally it will be able to limit draw to 15/20 amps on 120 and 30/40 amps

on

240...but I'm willing to toggle a menu option myself if needed for current

limit.)


   -Needs to support a minimum of 2,500 watts of charging at 240 volts.
I'd prefer 3.3k or 6.6k, but 2.5k is a minimum. I don't really need a super

high

powered charger, but would consider a higher power charger if the price was

right. I

have a NEMA-14-50 outlet, so max of around 40 amps at 240 volts or 9-10kW

range.



Features I'd like:
-I'd like to keep the price low, and am very comfortable assembling a kit

of parts.

(But I want to be able to buy a complete kit, I don't want to have to source

parts

from all over...)

   -A BMS input to turn off charging (I don't want to fuss around with a

separate AC

relay...)

   -I'd prefer an open source solution over a closed source solution, but as

long as I

can manually tweak the battery charging curves and amp draw, I'd accept a

black

box that is cheap.

   -Ability to have sdcard, bluetooth or wifi access to charge data logging

would be

very nice, but is not needed.

My maximum price point is around $2,000, and I'd really prefer to be closer to
$1,000, so I'm willing to trade power for cost as long as it supports 2.5kW to

3.3kW

charging...

Suggestions/recommendations/reviews or things to stay away from?

Thanks,
Jay


P.S. I currently have a 120 volt charger and a 240 volt charger that are both

designed

for lead acid, so I'll be saving some space by replacing them both, plus

gaining

flexibility for future upgrades.

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Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - (solar-thermal-NOT)

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 01/14/2015 11:39 AM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:

I hadn't heard of heat pump water heaters before this discussion.
Something like that could, indeed, tip the balance.

What happens to the cold side of the heat pump? Can that be used to
reduce air conditioning load in summer?


Certainly, depending on where it's located. Mine is in the basement 
where, unfortunately now, it's keeping it quite chilly. It was 56 down 
there yesterday. But in the summer it helps keep it cool and helps 
dehumidify it. I have a dehumidifier that runs almost constantly all 
summer. The water heater generates about 5 gallons of water every 2 
weeks so that's got to be helping.



As of a few years ago, the return on investment, the payback time,
for solar hot water was better than that of PV -- and that included
maintenance every few years, electricity to heat the water on cloudy
days (though much less electricity since you still get a substantial
amount of warming), and so on.

But it's obviously a rapidly-evolving field. If heat pumps really are
coming to water heaters, that's huge not just for PV adopters but
energy efficiency across the spectrum.


Absolutely. My GE GeoSpring has a 2.4 energy factor. (You can also buy 
stand-alone heat pumps that you plumb inline with a standard resistance 
water heater.)


I think, as others have said, that the plummeting price of PV has really 
tipped the scale and when you add in the improving efficiency of heat 
pumps it really falls over.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV

[Rick Beebe via EV]

In the case where there are plenty of usable parts they'll often pay you 
some nominal amount for the car. Otherwise they'll either just take it 
or you'll have to pay them (something around $50 in my experience). 
Since yours is just a rolling chassis I'm going to bet on one of the 
latter two. The best bet it to call the auto salvage yards and ask.


--Rick

On 01/13/2015 08:04 PM, Bill Dennis via EV wrote:

I didn't have any takers on my Starter EV, Just Add Batteries offer.  So
I'm just going to take out all the EV components and scrap the car.  What's
the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard?  Do you have to
pay them to pick up the car, or do they just come and take it off your hands
for whatever remaining parts it may have?

Thanks,

Bill

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Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - (now Home solar)

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 01/12/2015 07:19 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:


PV is simpler you don't have to do anything at all different to get the
power into the heater (or heat pump).  I actually have never talked to
anyone who uses a heat pump water heater.  Everyone just goes with
resistance heating.  It is by far the lowest cost method and that wins the
day with developers.


There are some developers who are building net-zero or LEEDS certifiable 
properties who are using them, but most developers look for the least 
up-front cost since they're not the ones who will be paying to operate 
the equipment.


I put 9.3kW of PV on my roof and have converted my house to 
all-electric. Part of my efforts to minimize my power use has been to 
install a GE GeoSpring heat pump water heater. The savings are 
considerable--it only uses 35-40% of the power of the old water heater. 
I also installed a high-efficiency air-source heat pump for space 
heating. That effort is somewhat less successful. It makes a GREAT air 
conditioner. My electric use in the summer is half of what it was with 
the old central air system. But I'm paying as much or more in 
electricity during the winter than I paid for oil before and the thing 
is noisy. I like that I'm not using oil any more but I'm not sure I'd 
recommend this solution to others.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] OT: batteries for solar PV off-grid

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 12/21/2014 03:24 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:

So, I have my roof covered with solar panels. And Salt River Project,
my utility, is threatening to at least triple monthly basic
connection fees for solar customers.

I've decided that's not an option for me. Before I pay such Danegeld,
I'll get a bunch of batteries and drop off the grid entirely. (And I
wrote as much in a letter to SRP's CEO.) The rate increase is still
in the proposal stage and there'd be a period of some years before
it'd go into place for existing customers...but, still, now is the
time to start planning.


You should write to your local representatives as well since rate 
increases from power companies usually have to be approved by the local 
Public Utilities Commission. Get the newspapers involved. Find out what 
the company's justifications for the increase are and see if you can 
counter them.



So...can anybody offer any suggestions? For example, what to expect
to pay for EV batteries that're no good for use in an EV but still
hold enough charge to be worth putting at the back of a closet?


With a couple hundred thousand EVs now on the roads there are now a 
measurable number involved in accidents. As such, used--but not worn 
out--battery packs are now available through salvage yards and on eBay. 
And some vendors are selling (and supporting) used modules. EVWest 
(evwest.com), for example, is selling some used modules from (I believe) 
Smart EDs.



I'm assuming the battery output will go into the DC input on the
inverter I already have for the PV panels, and that, in turn, means
that I don't have to worry about matching voltages from different
batteries. That, for example, I should be just fine getting a surplus
Leaf battery from here and a Tesla battery from a wrecking yard there
and so on until I've got enough amp-hour capacity for my needs, and
that I can add and remove batteries later as the fancy tickles me. Is
that a valid assumption?


As others have said, you really need to look at the documentation for 
your inverter. Also, don't forget you need some way to charge those 
batteries and charging a mis-matched set can be problematic.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Use a j1772 extension cord as ice'd-EVSE work-around

[Rick Beebe via EV]

You can't guarantee that any random EVSE you drive up to will only put 
out 30A so a 40A cord gives you a little extra margin. HOWEVER, the 
important number is what your car will draw. If your car charger can't 
draw more than 25A or so, then I agree. A 40A cord is overkill. 
Personally I'd be quite happy using a 30A cord.


--Rick

On 12/19/2014 11:07 AM, Rush Dougherty via EV wrote:

I thought of that years ago, literally years ago, I've been making J1772 
Extension
Cords for 3 years now...

And mine is cheaper, if you want longer cord I can give it to you at a lower 
price
and my cord is UL listed, besides who needs a 40A cord when your EVSE only puts
out 30A?

Rush
www.TucsonEV.com

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Re: [EVDL] Turning over a new Leaf...

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I have two of them and am very happy with them. Both builds are detailed 
on the OpenEVSE website. The fact they he's now put together a complete 
kit makes it even less expensive.


--Rick

On 12/13/2014 10:02 AM, tomw via EV wrote:

If you want something portable, might also consider the Openevse:
http://store.openevse.com/

Much less expensive than commercial ones, and several people here have been
using it for a couple years or so.



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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: i for batteries included ZOE-iKangoo-i EVs w/ Buyable Pack

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On Dec 4, 2014, at 9:22 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV
ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:


I see significant advantages to battery leasing, but I wouldn't buy
a Renault with a leased battery, solely because they threaten to
disable the battery if you don't keep up the lease payments.


I'm not sure I see the advantage of battery leasing. Battery renting, 
yes, leasing, not really. I'm renting the battery in my Smart ED and 
even though I'm EV-savvy it took away a chunk of worry when I got the car.


Perhaps others define leasing differently, but in my world the 
difference is who pays for maintenance. If I lease it I have to fix it 
but if I rent it the rental company has to fix or replace it.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: i for batteries included ZOE-iKangoo-i EVs w/ Buyable Pack

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 12/05/2014 01:56 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 5 Dec 2014 at 13:48, Rick Beebe via EV wrote:


I'm not sure I see the advantage of battery leasing If I lease it
I have to fix it but if I rent it the rental company has to fix or
replace it.


I guess I never considered a distinction.  When you lease a house, the
landlord pays for maintenance, and I'd expect the same for leasing a battery
- that's one of the advantages.

I hadn't thought about the fact that you have to maintain a leased
automobile yourself.  That certainly wouldn't be an ideal model for battery
leasing.


I don't know if there's a technical or legal distinction. I've rented 
apartments and could call the building manager for ANY problems. I've 
also leased a condo and the lease agreement specifically said I was 
responsible for any maintenance under $500.


That experience plus the clear difference between leasing and renting 
both planes and cars leads me to think of them like that.


But Lee's explanation of traditional battery leasing goes to the other 
side of it. I guess in any lease/rent transaction the most important 
thing is to read the agreement to see who's responsible for what.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 11/19/2014 10:59 AM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:

On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:32 AM, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:


Range anxiety doesn't so much come from the range of the vehicle
but the ability to charge.


That's a good point. You can argue all day about the relative merits
of at-home and on-the-go charging, but the fact remains that American
culture is largely built around on-the-go charging. It's what people
know and how they think.


I'm not sure of that. I don't think EVs are ubiquitous enough to have 
become part of the American culture. Of course that's how gas cars work 
and some (many?) people have trouble imagining a world where they don't 
have to stop to fill up.


[...]


Next up is the convenience of charging at home overnight and starting
each day with a full tank rather than having to stop somewhere for
gas. That's nice a nice feature, but, for most people, on the level
of having the proper number of cup holders.


For me, that realization was the Ah-ha! moment I needed. When I'm 
evangelizing I ask people to imagine how big their gas tank would need 
to be if the car was filled by elves while they slept. Many people have 
thought about it and said 2 or 3 gallons. 60-90 miles. Personally I have 
2 EVs and a plug-in hybrid now and with one exception I've only ever 
charged them at home. I'll tell you the exception in the next paragraph.



Closely related is the much reduced need for maintenance...but cars
are black boxes that people already don't understand, and most of the
things that break have nothing to do with the drivetrain.


New cars are remarkably reliable so mostly its the difference in 
scheduled maintenance. Even so, my Ford C-Max Energi has scheduled 
maintenance every 10,000 miles. The Smart ED I'm leasing has scheduled 
maintenance very 10,000 miles too. When I get there I'll let you know 
which was more expensive. It's 25 miles to the Smart dealer from my 
house and in the winter the range on the Smart is about 45 miles (75 in 
summer). So when I bring the car there for service in the cold their 
charge stations need to be working or the car is stuck there. That's my 
no-at-home charging exception.


Personally I think plug-in hybrids like the Volt and my C-Max are 
probably the ideal vehicle to introduce people to EVs. Complexity aside, 
they may be the ideal vehicle for most people. I have a 20 mile round 
trip to work. The C-Max does about 25 miles electric in the summer (14 
in winter) so most of my driving is pure electric. I put gas in the 
thing every 3 months or so and I hate it. I got the Smart because I got 
annoyed that the C-Max wasn't making the round trip as a pure EV in the 
winter (and because it was so inexpensive!). But I have the choice of 
either depending on where I need to go that day. A Volt with its 38 mile 
range would probably spend 95% of its time as an EV in my house. But 
there's no range anxiety. Well there is as anyone who owns a PHEV can 
tell you. It's reverse range anxiety. How far can I go before the damn 
gas engine kicks in?


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] EV-spirits: Use a Halloween Costume for the EV-cause

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 11/06/2014 09:57 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:

On Nov 6, 2014, at 9:54 AM, Alan Brinkman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:


How about a used Volt? Or a used Leaf and a low cost beater ICE as
a backup? Or a used Smart electric car with a used ICE beater?


All suggestions I made.


I have a Ford C-Max plug-in hybrid that I like a lot. Less EV range than 
the Volt--about 25 miles--but it's generally enough for me. It's 
considerably less expensive than the Volt and carries a lot more.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: CA testing 55+mpge mi-based/VMT road-tax-fees aimed@ plugins

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 11/07/2014 10:50 AM, Paul Dove via EV wrote:

Not really! The government must collect taxes to pay for roads.
Previously it was done by taxing fuel. You can tax electricity to pay
for roads because how would you know which part went into the
vehicle. So they have to devise another way



The problem is they keep throwing fair into the equation and that will 
just make it complicated and expensive. I bet it costs more to collect 
these devised taxes than they gain.


Fair says people using the roads should pay for their upkeep whether 
they live here or not. Gas tax works in general because if you're from 
out-of-state but here for any length of time you'll have to buy gas 
here. And if you're a resident traveling elsewhere you'll be buying your 
gas elsewhere to pay for road upkeep there.


I believe you meant to say can't tax electricity. They could do it by 
requiring separate metering for EVSEs. Complicated and expensive and 
doesn't account for out-of-staters.


Oregon says they're going to charge 1.5cents per mile for miles traveled 
within the state for vehicles that get 55mpg or greater. Complicated and 
expensive to track.


I say let's redefine fair a bit to say if you live in the state the 
roads are your responsibility. Virtually every state has some sort of 
semi-regular inspection or registration program. Report the current 
mileage on your car and pay the tax on that (over time would be nice). 
Do away with the gas tax and make EVERYONE pay this way. Quick and easy 
to collect and reasonably fair.


Perhaps we make it apply to vehicles under 6000 pounds and keep the gas 
tax for big trucks. They're the ones that cause the most road damage 
anyway.


Of course tax dodgers would register their vehicles in another state but 
we have that problem now with people trying to avoid property tax.


One reason they won't want to do this is because it would suddenly make 
the tax visible. In my state a 25mpg car will take about 600 gallons to 
drive 15,000 miles and I'll pay $150 in fuel tax (and about $135 in 
sales tax). If they charged me a penny a mile, that same 15,000 miles 
would cost me the same $150 but I would actually see a bill for it. And 
I wouldn't be paying it a couple dollars at a time like I do now. 
Legislators know voters hate that kind of thing.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] Heating system

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I had the same problem. What finally worked for me was to tee in a 
bottle (I used a regular coolant overflow bottle) to the line leading to 
the pump. I also have a brass tee with a plug at the highest point in 
the system in the line leading from the tank. I opened that to let air out.


First I pulled the outlet hose on the tank (mine is on top) and filled 
the tank up. Reattached the hose and filled the coolant bottle. Then I 
disconnected the heating elements and just ran the pump. I kept the 
coolant bottle filled. Eventually fluid started splashing around in the 
brass tee. I loosely put the cap back on and kept filling until it was 
oozing steadly. Sealed it up and reconnected the heating elements.


--Rick

On 10/18/2014 10:58 PM, Al via EV wrote:

It's that time of year, time to get the heater installed in my EV.
It consists of a 3kW tank heater, a 12V solar pump, piped to the OEM
heater core.
My problem? I can't figure out why it is so damn hard to get the air out
of the system.
The tank and the pump are down low, the heater core about 6 inches above.
My first guess was that a simple vertical tube with a small bottle on
the outlet of the core at the highest point should work.
It would allow expansion and any air should find its way up and out.
Doesn't work. The only thing I have done that even comes close to
working is to have a small diameter bypass around the core that runs
through a bottle.
Even then, it takes a long time to get a fairly solid fluid flow.
Am I missing something?


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Re: [EVDL] Batteries that can be recharged to 70 percent in just 2 minutes

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 10/15/2014 03:04 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:

On Oct 15, 2014, at 10:53 AM, Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com
wrote:


I can't see why I need a high rate of charge at home.


Need? Obviously not. Want? Who wouldn't?



I don't need or want it. But if I lived in an apartment building where I 
couldn't plug my car it, being able to zap it full on the way to or from 
work might be the deciding factor in whether I buy one or not.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] Lightobject meter experience

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I have a JLD-404 that I use as a fuel gauge and it's worked flawlessly
for that. It seems to be pretty accurate. I have bought things from EVTV 
even though they are more expensive than other sources, but these I buy 
right from lightobject because Jack has cranked up the price way too 
much. Their shipping is fair and quick.


I also use one of their JLD-612DC temperature controllers to control the 
water heater in my truck. It too works well.


A problem, however, with controlling a charger is knowing what to 
trigger on. The normal charge scheme is to charge to a certain voltage 
at whatever amperage you can manage and then hold that voltage and taper 
the current off to some small value. I don't think you can really 
duplicate that. I suppose you could turn it off at some voltage and when 
the pack voltage drops (which it will almost immediately) turn it back 
on until it stops dropping below the threshold.


You could trigger on Ah but I always put more in than I took out so 
that's problematic too.


--Rick

On 10/12/2014 3:10 PM, jerry freedomev via EV wrote:

Hi All, In my continuing fight to lower lithium battery pack costs I
was wondering if anyone has experience with the Lightobject Wthr ,
etc meter  like the one EVTV made the vid of they rebranded?
Especially interested in it's use turning off the battery charger and
how well it keeps track of battery capacity of lithium packs, etc?

Thanks,

Jerry Dycus


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Re: [EVDL] EValert: !Don't buy a salvaged Tesla EV to repair drive! (video)

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 10/02/2014 01:15 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

Except that consumers have rights that the courts have long upheld.

1. Businesses must sell to consumers on a non-discriminatory basis.
They can't blacklist certain people.


No but I suppose they CAN refuse to sell some parts to anybody which
is what they're claiming. I know that there are some laws in the US that
require manufacturers to sell parts to any repair facility (to prevent
the situation where cars can ONLY be repaired by their own dealers) but
I honestly don't know the details or if Tesla is violating them here.


2. Consumers have a reasonable expectation of fitness for use. I.e.
a company can't sell something that they rigged so the customer can't
use it for its normal intended purpose.


That's true but the company who sold something here is the salvage
company. And I heard that the guy who bought the car is thinking of
suing them. If Tesla sticks to its guns then what happens is that no
wrecked Teslas are salvageable and as scrap they are less valuable. That
means the insurance companies will lose more money whenever they declare
a car a total loss which means everyone who owns a Tesla will be paying
more for insurance.


No, it's not surprising. But *all* car companies have had the same
worries since time immemorial. For that matter, anyone who sells
anything can worry about the new owner misusing it, and coming back
to the original owner for compensation.

But, the whole point of transferring a title is to officially change
ownership. It it mighty hard to get any kind of damages from an
original owner unless one can show that there was fraud or
misrepresentation.


Original owner, perhaps but not necessarily the manufacturer. In the 
early 80's nearly every company building small airplanes in the US 
stopped because they were getting crushed by liability costs. They were 
losing (or at least spending a lot of money defending) lawsuits based on 
claims of negligence during the manufacture of planes built back as far 
as 1940! They only started building again after congress passed a law 
limited their liability to 18 years. I think the only thing that keeps 
that from being such a big issue in the automotive world is that few 
cars last that long and the manufacturers have a lot more money to 
defend themselves. But even so, I bet Ford and GM are named in plenty of 
lawsuits following some fiery crash of vehicles of nearly any age. Tesla 
is still a very small player and significant liability exposure could 
hurt them.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] EValert: !Don't buy a salvaged Tesla EV to repair drive! (video)

[Rick Beebe via EV]

A copy of the form was attached to the original news item I read about
this so I have read it. It doesn't say Tesla can take his car but it
does say that  before they would reactivate the car he had to take it to
Tesla to be inspected at his expense (other sources say that Tesla says
they won't charge for this but the form clearly states it's at his
expense). If they're happy with the inspection they'll reactive the car.
If they feel it needs additional repairs he has to take it to a Tesla
service center for those repairs before they'll reactivate it. Or
finally, they may decide that it's beyond repair and they will refuse to
reactivate it. That last could be construed as taking his car because
it will be basically worthless at that point.

Tesla's stated position is that they're concerned about safety, but
that's not really their problem any more. He'll need to get it inspected
by the state before it can be declared roadworthy.

There are a couple of 'hack the Tesla' groups out there. I think we'll
need them if anyone expects to do anything with used Teslas.

--Rick

On 09/29/2014 02:19 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
 On 28 Sep 2014 at 20:32, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
 
 If the guy wants to hack a tesla, then simply sign the form.  Done.
 
 Simply sign the form? It isn't that simple.
 
 On 28 Sep 2014 at 2:12, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
 
 ... he says the company wanted him to sign liability waiver that allows
 the automaker to ultimately determine the car´s roadworthiness. Rutman
 says ... that it would allow Tesla to confiscate the vehicle if they
 felt it wasn´t safe ... 

 Tesla [says] ... nothing in the inspection authorization form they
 wanted Rutman to sign would have let them take his car away. 
 
 That's a legal document you're talking about.  If the owner is correct, he 
 would be effectively giving up the ownership rights he paid for. 
 
 Maybe I'm overly cautious, but I'm not like the folks who click right 
 through software agreements.  I actually read them so I know what I'm 
 giving up.  A couple of times, I've decided I don't need that program that 
 badly after all.  I also read mortgages before I sign them - all legal 
 documents, in fact.
 
 If I were the owner here, I'd take that document to an attorney for an 
 independent expert interpretation. If it really does allow Tesla to take the 
 car on their unilateral determination that it's unsafe, it's an outrage.
 
 Tesla claims it doesn't really say that.  Fine, but it wouldn't be the first 
 time that a corporation said soothingly Just trust us, when the legal fine 
 print said don't. 
 
 David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
 EVDL Administrator
 
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Re: [EVDL] co-operation

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 09/25/2014 07:47 PM, George Tyler via EV wrote:
 Well, I am also a bit senior! Elon Musk wants to see an electric car
 industry develop. Current new EV's are the only way in which most people can
 get them, but they are too expensive for most people. The conversions could
 cost less, there are companies doing conversions but not main stream. Tesla
 (Elon) wants to see basically only electrics on the road, he could help many
 here to get into the main stream market and further his aims by achieving a
 critical mass.
I like your sentiment but I don't think the argument works. A conversion
is going to cost at least $15,000 plus the price of the car being
converted. There is a lot of extra labor involved in getting the car
de-gassified. And if you're doing the conversion for Joe Everybody, it
can't be--as many of our conversions are--a rolling science experiment.
That involves a lot of extra work and expense in figuring out things
like transmissions and interfacing to the car's computers. And you end
up with a vehicle that is probably only repairable by the conversion
shop that did it, that's hard to get financing for, and that likely has
a very low resale value.

In order to make it work on a massive scale you have to pick one or two
models of cars so that you can streamline the process and make
standardized components like battery racks. Choose the wrong car and
you're dead because no one will buy it. Frankly I think that's part of
what killed Solectria...who really wants a Geo Metro?

An electric car industry is developing and it's going to be new cars.
And the price is coming down. I am leasing a Smart ED for for which I
paid $238 down and $124 per month. I've seen Leafs for $199/mo and a
dealer in California is offering (a very limited number of) BMW i3's for
$329 per month. There are options if you want an electric car.

And we don't want to hit critical mass yetthe supply chain isn't
mature enough to provide all those cars. But I think we're making
progress and I believe EVs are not going away this time.

--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 8/28/2014 5:49 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:

On Aug 28, 2014, at 2:26 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV
ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:


From what I've read, part of the idea behind their lease - they'll
sell you the car, but not the battery - is to keep the car's
selling price low.  I think the battery lease costs about what
you'd spend on on fuel for a comparable car for a typical monthly
driving distance


I know marketing types love to lock people in to recurring fees, and
I'm sure automakers are looking for ways to do that in yet more ways
with EVs. But I just don't see leasing a battery as going over any
better than leasing gas tanks or tires or windshield wiper fluid.


Slight variant: I'm leasing a Smart ED and renting the battery. I would 
do the same thing if I bought the car.  After range anxiety, I think 
that battery anxiety is the next biggest worry. How long will it last? 
Can I live with it if the capacity drops by 20%? How expensive will it 
be to replace? All those issues go away if the battery is rented. The 
$80/mo to rent the battery was part of the advertised price so it wasn't 
a last-minute surprise.


In general the difference between renting and leasing is who's 
responsible for maintenance. Me if I lease and the owner (landlord?) if 
I rent. I agree it makes no sense to lease a battery if I'm still 
responsible for it if it breaks.


--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Incentives make buying a new EV better than buying used

[Rick Beebe via EV]

If people believe this the end result will be dramatic lessening of the
value of used EVs. That said it's not really fair comparing the monthly
cost of a lease against a purchase. At the end of those 3 years the
lessee will have to get another car whereas the purchaser may go for a
number of years with no payments. For example, keep them for 5 years:

 LeasePurchase
Year 1-3 Downpayment  $2400$2400
36 payments @ $ 199$ 300
Year 4-5 downpayment  $2400$   0
24 payments @ $ 199$   0
Total:   $16740   $13200

$3500 more to lease and this fictitious example includes $15,000 federal
tax credits!

--Rick


On 08/21/2014 03:51 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

 That's the conclusion of a new article in Wired, which compares leasing a
 new Nissan Leaf battery-electric vehicle to buying a two-year-old version
 with about 33,000 miles on it. Turns out, leasing comes out way ahead. A
 $2,400 down payment will procure a 36-month lease at $199 a month.
 Meanwhile, a two-year-old Leaf with a $15,000 Kelley Blue Book value will
 cost more than $300 a month to finance. Much of the reason for the lower
 lease rate is that the $7,500 federal tax credit is baked into the lease
 terms, whereas a second-hand EV doesn't provide that benefit.

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Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I would look at the JLD404 from LightObject
(http://www.lightobject.com/Programmable-Digital-AH-meter-red-led-Ideal-for-battery-monitoring-P870.aspx).
It can monitor battery voltage, amps or count Amp-Hours and has two
relays in it which can trigger on high or low values of any of them. Use
it to turn off the contactor either after a certain # of Ah or when
battery voltage drops below a certain point.

--Rick

On 08/22/2014 02:14 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
 So I have new AGMs in hand from atbatt  (the one linked in my May 1 post).
  Should I just charge them to to 27V together?  Or are there other
 considerations?
 
 MI wife tends to mow until the thing is whisper quiet and  the voltage is
 below 24V.  I have the impression the PbSO4 cells should be no less thatn
 50% SOC to ensure good liife.How can I limit SOD?  Should I limit it?
 
 Thanks!
 
 mike
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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I have a Ford C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid and a Smart ED both of which 
are AC with regen. Regen on the Smart is more aggressive meaning you 
really can do one-foot driving. Once I got used to it I found I like it 
and, of course, you can still find that spot on the pedal that allows 
coasting. The Ford basically puts regen on the brake pedal (a minor 
amount of engine braking on the throttle) which is also fine and makes 
me feel a little safer because I know the brake lights are on when I'm 
slowing down.


I also have a Ford Ranger with a series DC motor that was converted in 
2007. I am just finishing up re-converting it to use lithium cells. In 
fact it had its first lithium-powered drive on Sunday. It's MUCH more 
spritely with 1300 pounds of batteries removed!


If the budget had allowed, I would have converted the truck to AC as 
well. I just find regen makes driving more pleasurable. It's fairly 
hilly around here including one short but very steep hill on the route 
between my house and Home Depot (obviously a common trip!). I look 
forward to driving down those hills in the C-Max and Smart because it's 
free power back in the tank. It's somewhat terrifying in the truck 
because it all depends on the brakes.


My motor (ADC) and controller (DCP Raptor) wouldn't have much resale 
value so I decided to live with them. The Zilla and Warp 9 are still 
being sold so I bet you could get quite a bit of your investment back. 
New, the pair is about $3700. For a Cabrio I personally would look at 
the HPEVS AC-50 or AC-51 for about $4500 (144volts. $3700 at 108volts).


But, if the money doesn't stretch you're certainly not doing anything 
wrong by using what you have. It will probably be faster off the line 
and maybe faster overall.


--Rick


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of
ph...@bill-collins.net via EV
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 3:59 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org; ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] Conversion advice


A few years ago I decided to convert my '98 VW Cabrio to electric.  At
the time,
a Warp 9 motor and Zilla 1K controller seemed to make a lot of sense,
and are
probably one of the best combinations today for a DC conversion.
Since I've now put 90k miles on the car as an ICE (after buying it
cheaply
because the previous owner thought it needed an engine) and a few years
have
gone by, I'm wondering if a DC conversion still makes sense.

I know Curtis makes an AC kit that's designed for similar applications
as the 9
inch DC motors.  Any opinions on it, or other AC options?
Any idea of the resale value of an unused Zilla 1K LV and Warp 9 motor?

At least lithium batteries are a lot cheaper than when I first thought
about
doing this!

Bill

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Re: [EVDL] To Noalox, or Not to Noalox

[Rick Beebe via EV]

REAP Systems in England did test that in a lab last year. You can see a
video presentation they did on the EVTV web site. Go to video archives,
August 16, 2013. A direct link is
http://media3.ev-tv.me/news081613-iPhone.m4v. The presentation starts at
23 minutes and the results are around 36 minutes.

Instead of sanding they used a steel bristle brush to remove the tarnish
from the terminals and busbars. They discharged the cells at 300 amps in
60 second bursts 30 times. The BMS was monitoring individual cell
temperatures and if they exceeded 45C it would reduce the current. They
strapped 7 100Ah cells together.

With uncleaned terminals they got one cycle before having to reduce the
current because of temperature. The warmest cell got up to 55C after 10
cycles.

With cleaned terminals there was no reduction in current until after 11
cycles when the warmest cell got up to 45C. The warmest cell eventually
got just above 50C but after those 11 cycles they'd already drawn half
the capacity of the cells.

Interestingly there was virtually no difference when they added the
grease. So if you think the grease will help prevent corrosion that's
fine. But it doesn't seem to do anything to help the connection.

--Rick

On 7/31/2014 12:43 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:

With aluminum, you just cannot expose bare un-oxidixed metal, it is not
possible to do this, so I am not happy with the sanding idea.  The sanding
has to be helpful on some other basis if it is indeed helpful.

Be interesting if someone has compared greased un-sanded to greased and
sanded.





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Re: [EVDL] motor controller

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Happy to help but the video is private. You can make it public but not 
published so that we can see it but it won't show up to random youtube 
browsers.


--Rick

On 7/17/2014 4:20 PM, Dennis Miles via EV wrote:

Dear Friends on the EVDL,

  I feel you represent the BEST in an active group of individuals with
positive interest in Electric Vehicles.  I would ask you a small favor, It
is related to my promotion of my educational attempts to train many more
mechanics and enthusiasts in the technology of Electric Vehicles.  I have
noticed that most of you are very literate, and my request is, *for those
who have the spare time*, to view the Presentation I have been working on
for several days and have now posted on youtube  (link 
http://youtu.be/*_*DetP2Q1BYc http://youtu.be/_DetP2Q1BYc )  I ask you
*only* to critique the slide presentation. And reply directly to me (
EVprofessor *AT* EVprofessor* DOT* com ) with you suggestions for
improvement.  I know that several words are misspelled (Such as OR in
place of FOR.)  I also have a tendency to make very long sentences. If
you feel strongly, about the text, I can send you the text, 575 words, for
your perusal. Which I composed and converted to slides for presentation.  I
welcome any positive criticism.  I realize that the topic of my
presentation is not EVs, but Technical training about the technology used
in EV and I beg your indulgence, for this intrusion.

  With Thanks in advance and Regards,

Dennis Lee Miles (EVprofessor)

*Founder:**EV Tech. Institute Inc.** (www.evti.org
http://www.evti.org) *

*E-Mail:*  *evprofes...@evprofessor.com* evprofes...@evprofessor.com


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: SF Bay Area Cities buy $5M worth of Leaf Focus EVs

[Rick Beebe via EV]

$5 million divided by 90 cars is over $55,000 each. Even if the 5 
charging stations cost $100,000 EACH that's still $50,000 per car. 
Someone's making out like a bandit on this deal.


--Rick

On 7/16/2014 6:00 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


The six cities, two counties and two water agencies have gone in together to
buy 90 electric vehicles with the help of a $2.8 million grant from the
Metropolitan Transportation Commission, a regional transportation agency,
officials with the Bay Area Climate Collaborative said Tuesday.

The vehicles include the Ford Focus and the Nissan Leaf. The total cost was
$5 million.


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Re: [EVDL] What serious EVs are available, at what price how do they compare?

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Smart ED: ~377 (=25700/68)


 Leaf: ~427 (=32000/75)

 i3: ~511 (=43000/81)

 Tesla-S: ~337 (=7/208)
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Re: [EVDL] What serious EVs are available, at what price how do they compare?

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I can agree with this statement: The smart EV driver who understands
the real value-promise of EV's where they do best (overnight charging
and daily use) actually looks for the smallest battery that meets their
routine needs, not the biggest but the rest of your argument is pretty
fanciful.

The smart EV driver would buy a leaf for $32,000 or a Smart ED for
$25,700 and spend $40 a week to rent an ICE car for their Washington to
NY trip instead of spending $40,000 extra for the Model S and having to
cool their heels at some truck stop (in both directions) waiting for
their car to charge. Or even better, take the train and get a lot of
work or rest done on the trip. Washington to NYC is one of the worst
drives in this country.

--Rick

On 07/08/2014 11:05 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
 I don't know if your metric is the right one to use, but for the Tesla, I
 think that using the 85 kWh battery as a more robust solution is what I
 would use.
 
 For an extra $500 per hour for a 30 minute highway charge?  I don’t think
 so.
 
 The smart EV driver who understands the real value-promise of EV's where
 they do best (overnight charging and daily use) actually looks for the
 smallest battery that meets their routine needs, not the biggest.  For
 example, is it worth an extra $26,000 to be able to go an extra 57 miles
 between charges on the highway?
 
 Example, A weekly trip from Washington DC to say New York city (226 mi) in a
 85kw car (265 mi range) will not need to charge along the way in good
 weather, but will need to charge immediately on arrival.  The driver of a 60
 kW battery (208 mi) would have to charge once along the way for say 20
 minutes but then not have to stress over finding a charger immediately on
 arrival.  His cost? An extra 30 minutes.
 
 At 52 trips a year, (52 hours of charging along the way) works out to be a
 cost of $500 per hour.   Of course this goes down the longer one owns the
 car, but paying an extra $1000 per charge to save 30 minutes once a week is
 not economical to many people.  Sure, to those that can afford it, the price
 is insignificant , but they are not the ones who will be the primary
 purchasers of mass EV's.

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Re: [EVDL] Solar now under $1.50 INSTALLED in Maryland

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I have 9.3kw of SolarCity cells on my house using their Power Purchase
Agreement (PPA) and they've been great to work with. With a PPA I
basically agreed to buy all the electricity the panels produce. They
would have installed it with absolutely no money out of my pocket but I
elected to pay them $1000 to lock my rate in for 20 years. Payback was
four years based on historical electric company rate changes but they
raised it 15% this past January so my payback will be even quicker.

They're not in every state, though, and I suspect that the ones they are
in are the ones with the best state incentives.

--Rick

On 06/29/2014 04:01 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
 
 I am interested in Solarcity.  They offer a way for people with less funds
 and credit to get solar on their house.  But, I have not figured out quite
 how they operate in all the various situations that people find themselves
 in vis a vis their utility and local government.



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Re: [EVDL] EV potential - Postal Service and 7 MPG average

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 06/29/2014 03:57 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

 It appears to me that EVs have not yet been a success in postal delivery. I 
 can't understand why not.  Anyone with other (I hope more positive) 
 information please post it.
 
 David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
 EVDL Administrator


Our local post office is in a small-ish building built in the 1960's on
a very tight lot. At the end of the day the 25 or so jeeps get crammed
into every corner of the parking lot. I have to wonder if part of the
problem is simply the investment that would be needed in installing 25
charging stations and a probable service upgrade for the building.

--Rick
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Re: [EVDL] Solar now under $1.50 INSTALLED in Maryland

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Not true here. Every one involved in my installation was a SolarCity
employee. That said, they've been growing so fast that they have a hard
time hiring enough people so maybe in some places they are
subcontracting the installation out. There are 20 installer/electrician
jobs on their website right now.

I do derive a great deal of satisfaction charging an PHEV and BEV and
still getting a $0 electric bill.

--Rick

On 06/30/2014 11:41 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
 Actually, Solar City is mostly just a marketing, and financing system.
 They then hire local companies to do the installations according to their
 specs.
 
 Yes, they demand efficiency from those local companies, and that is where
 the weeding out happens I guess.

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Re: [EVDL] Solar now under $1.50 INSTALLED in Maryland

[Rick Beebe via EV]

No, just $0 generation/distribution. I have to pay $16.50 as a base
connect/govt fee charge.

--Rick

On 06/30/2014 12:44 PM, Michael Ross wrote:
 Do you really get a $0 utility bills?  According to my utility Duke
 Progess you should be ashamed of your self hanging infrastructure costs
 on poor people and poor old Duke.  
 
 I use 0 net power and they bill me for a couple bits less than $20 every
 month.  For electric service, and various surcharges - all hidden from
 view in that one line item.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hertz not deriding Spark EV as nothing more than a compliance car

[Rick Beebe via EV]

There's compliance and then there's compliance. There are, I believe, 7
 states other than California that have ZEV mandates as well. I was able
to get a Smart ED because I live in one of them. But I can't get a Honda
FIT or Spark EV or Fiat 500e because those are California only. I
presume Honda, Chevy and Fiat are buying ZEV credits to avoid having to
make cars for us smaller states.

--Rick

On 06/12/2014 01:00 PM, Dennis Miles via EV wrote:
 Bruce, and others,  IMHO any EV built by a major manufacturer; but, limited
 to sales in California, is a compliance car.  Real EV are available
 nation-wide and are worthy of my general comment. I am not living in
 California (I lived there in 1970  71.) I buy my cars near home (in
 Florida), and I am Jealous of those of you who can purchase or lease an EV
 compliance vehicle because I can't... I would urge all states to adopt the
 laws requiring a minimum percentage of zero emissions vehicles, (similar to
 California.).
 
 *Dennis Lee Miles *

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Re: [EVDL] Cable Compatibility Within Conduits

[Rick Beebe via EV]

On 05/27/2014 01:09 PM, George Wagner via EV wrote:
 Is there a problem with using the same conduit to contain the main
 traction cables (2/0 cable), charging cable (#6 wire) and BMS wiring
 (#12 wire)?  The run would be about 5' in PVC conduit. 

I'm not sure about the legality in a car. In a structure you can't run
high and low voltage wiring in the same conduit or raceway unless
there's a barrier between them. I wouldn't do it for 3 reasons. One is
the disparate voltages. Two is probably disparate grounds what I won't
want to mix. And the third is noise.

--Rick

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Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Rick Beebe via EV]

Jack's concern was that the meter might make a connection between frame
ground and the high voltage pack so he put the DC-DC in for isolation. I
did have that problem on the analog volt meter I used to have in the
truck so I put one in as well. However I don't have any evidence to
suggest it's really necessary for this meter. I haven't found any
continuity between the 12v power and high voltage connections on the
meter. But the DC-DC was only a couple bucks so it was cheap insurance.

--Rick

On 05/14/2014 08:17 PM, Michael K Johnson wrote:
 Thank you! That's perfect! All you are really doing is programming
 mV/A with a max of 75mV, so that makes sense.
 
 The EVTV diagram says Isolated 12v to 12v DC-DC Converter. I didn't
 see anywhere else that the negative power terminal on the JLD404AH
 cannot be tied to the COM terminal. And all my 12V regulated supplies
 are common negative. I don't have a separate 12V house battery in the
 lawn tractor. Are you using an isolated dc-dc converter in your truck?
 
 
 On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Rick Beebe via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 I have one in my truck and it works great. It wants a 75mV shunt but I
 have a 50mV/500A. You just lie the meter--I.e. I said it was connected
 to a 75mV/750A shunt.

 The manual is available here:
 http://www.lightobject.info/viewtopic.php?f=14t=1074

 Jack Rickard of EVTV has written a plain english one here:
 http://media3.evtv.me/JLD404AH.pdf.

 --Rick
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Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I have one in my truck and it works great. It wants a 75mV shunt but I
have a 50mV/500A. You just lie the meter--I.e. I said it was connected
to a 75mV/750A shunt.

The manual is available here:
http://www.lightobject.info/viewtopic.php?f=14t=1074

Jack Rickard of EVTV has written a plain english one here:
http://media3.evtv.me/JLD404AH.pdf.

--Rick

On 05/14/2014 06:35 AM, Michael K Johnson via EV wrote:
 That AH meter at lightobject looks very interesting. It doesn't say
 what shunt or range of shunts it can use that I can see.
 
 I have a buck converter that I can put on my tractor to power the
 meter, but obviously I'd need to use a shunt to measure current. I
 have a 50mV/500A shunt installed; do you have docs to check whether it
 would work?
 
 On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:21 AM, John Lussmyer via EV
 ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 I'm going to try one of these:
 http://www.lightobject.com/Programmable-Digital-AH-meter-Ideal-for-battery-monitoring-P278.aspx

 I have it on my desk, but haven't hooked it up to anything yet.

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