Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Willie via EV]

On 6/19/20 7:31 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

Haudy Kazemi via EV wrote:
In all this discussion...I don't think I saw using a car + small 4x8 
or 5x8

utility trailer mentioned...


An excellent point, Haudy. A trailer is obviously a good work-around if 
your car/truck can't handle what you need to carry.


Haudy's post did not make it to me.

I've done quite a bit of towing with EVs.  I think the area is most 
important; a small trailer might cost as little as 5% of range.  The 
teardrop was more like 25-30%.  The big sacks were short hauls where 
range reduction was of no concern.


This post mostly concerns a recent 600 mile one day trip hauling a very 
small trailer empty and with two different loads of near 1,000 pounds. 
At the end of the post is an a link to an album that covers 6-8 years.


https://wmckemie.blogspot.com/2020/06/pulling-unlicensed-unlighted-trailer-at.html
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Lee Hart via EV]

Haudy Kazemi via EV wrote:

In all this discussion...I don't think I saw using a car + small 4x8 or 5x8
utility trailer mentioned...


An excellent point, Haudy. A trailer is obviously a good work-around if 
your car/truck can't handle what you need to carry.


It's less desirable, for the reasons you stated (parking, backing up, 
where to store it when not in use). But it becomes your only option when 
you can't get the vehicle you really needed for the job.


Or, a related solution is to rent a truck. That's why U-Haul etc. are in 
business.


In my own case, I've been single for most of my life; so I didn't need a 
4-passenger vehicle. But I did haul "stuff" on a routine basis; so a 
small truck or van was always my ideal solution.


Lee Hart

--
If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find:
 - something to do
 - something to look forward to
 - someone to love
 - someone to take good care of
 - and misbehave, just a little
 --
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Haudy Kazemi via EV]

In all this discussion...I don't think I saw using a car + small 4x8 or 5x8
utility trailer mentioned. Torklift Ecohitches are available for Tesla
vehicles, Nissan Leafs, Toyota Priuses, and many other cars.

There is a *lot* you can do with a 2000 lb budget. 500 lb utility
trailer+1500 lbs load. Hauling plywood, drywall, yard waste, moving
furniture...all are possible. A utility trailer isn't covered, but that
isn't a given for truck beds either.

So what if the Prius MPGs drop from 50 mpg to 25 mpg on the freeway? It is
still 25 mpg doing truck-like duty on the rare times you need that ability,
while getting 50 mpg most of the time. Add a Scangauge to watch Prius water
temps when under load. Hint: they are pretty stable, meaning the cooling
system is keeping up even with a 2x fuel burn rate.

Hook the same trailer up to a Tesla Model S/X...and beyond the change in
Wh/mile, it won't really affect performance.  Okay for 100 miles on the
freeway in pretty much any conditions, and sometimes longer distances.

Gen 1 Leaf can also handle the load, but the already short range is quickly
made even shorter. Okay for maybe 15 miles (factoring in range degradation
in a Gen 1).

My rough rule of thumb: cut rated EV range to 1/2 or 1/3 of nominal value
if planning to tow non-aero trailer with EV at freeway speed on flat
ground. That should be conservative enough to avoid getting into a bind
while you figure out actual energy consumption.

This ratio of 1/2 to 1/3 is a side effect of the aerodynamic and drivetrain
efficiency of most EVs. They simply don't take lot of energy move around
compared to a high-drag trailer.

Another upside on small trailer...lifetime registration in at least some
states. Downside is learning to back a trailer out of some situations, and
figuring out where to store the trailer (options: driveway, garage, shed,
backyard, under raised deck).


On Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 15:35 EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:

> On 18 Jun 2020 at 11:45, Lee Hart via EV wrote:
>
> > Perhaps the problem is that the auto companies don't sell to end-users
> > -- they sell to *dealers*. So the dealers dictate the features; what
> > they want to sell; what gives them the highest profit margin.
>
> I think that's a large part of it.  It's compounded by the fact that
> decades
> ago the automakers decided to heavily promote truck-like vehicles, to
> evade
> fuel efficiency regulations.
>
> To make that strategy even more profitable, they've hardly changed the
> basic
> design of pickup trucks since they introduced independent front suspension
> in the mid 1960s.  Most of their development costs for them are fully
> amortized.
>
> Despite a few high profile EV ads (usually posted on Youtube), from what I
> can tell the automakers don't advertise anything in the US but big trucks,
> SUVs, and "crossovers" (tall, bloated station wagons).
>
> So guess what they sell.
>
> No other nation I've visited has anything close to the US's concentration
> of
> huge, non-functional pickup trucks on its roads.
>
> Other countries used to be predominantly small cars, but that's changed.
> In
> the last decade or so the automakers have been fabulously successful in
> changing other countries' vehicle mix by - surprise! - heavily advertising
> their SUVs and "crossovers."
>
> These less efficient vehicles are causing real consternation in EU
> government offices as they try to achieve their CO2 reduction targets.
> That's one reason that the EU as a whole, and its individual states that
> still have somewhat forward looking leaders, are pushing hard for EVs.
>
> For example, France has just raised its direct EV incentive from 6000 to
> 7000 euros.  That's hard cash, folks, not a tax credit.  They also
> subsidize
> installation of EVSEs.  The automakers demanded subsidies on ICEVs too
> because of lost sales during the viral lockdowns, but France said "non,
> véhicules électriques seulement."  Can you imagine that happening in the
> US?
>
> Aside from EVs, small, simple passenger cars are the least profitable
> vehicles worldwide.  The labor required to build them is roughly the same,
> but customers perceive large size and luxury as having high value.
> Therefore  big, luxurious vehicles can be priced higher than the actual
> additional manufacturing cost.
>
> I suspect, but don't know for sure, that next least profitable are utility
> vehicles.  They sell in small numbers, but again have fewer high-margin
> luxury options and still require about the same amount of labor to
> assemble.
>
> The fact that some customers PREFER low cost small vehicles and utility
> vehicles is immaterial.  The automakers and dealers don't like to sell
> them,
> so that's just too bad.
>
> Despite all the current optimism, I expect that in the long run,
> affordable
> US EVs will also tumble into the "not profitable enough" bin.
>
> I sure hope that Tesla survives, and comes up with something more
> affordable
> and smaller than the Model 3.
>
> David Roden - A

Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 18 Jun 2020 at 11:45, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> Perhaps the problem is that the auto companies don't sell to end-users 
> -- they sell to *dealers*. So the dealers dictate the features; what 
> they want to sell; what gives them the highest profit margin.

I think that's a large part of it.  It's compounded by the fact that decades 
ago the automakers decided to heavily promote truck-like vehicles, to evade 
fuel efficiency regulations. 

To make that strategy even more profitable, they've hardly changed the basic 
design of pickup trucks since they introduced independent front suspension 
in the mid 1960s.  Most of their development costs for them are fully 
amortized.

Despite a few high profile EV ads (usually posted on Youtube), from what I 
can tell the automakers don't advertise anything in the US but big trucks, 
SUVs, and "crossovers" (tall, bloated station wagons).  

So guess what they sell.

No other nation I've visited has anything close to the US's concentration of 
huge, non-functional pickup trucks on its roads.

Other countries used to be predominantly small cars, but that's changed.  In 
the last decade or so the automakers have been fabulously successful in 
changing other countries' vehicle mix by - surprise! - heavily advertising 
their SUVs and "crossovers." 

These less efficient vehicles are causing real consternation in EU 
government offices as they try to achieve their CO2 reduction targets.  
That's one reason that the EU as a whole, and its individual states that 
still have somewhat forward looking leaders, are pushing hard for EVs. 

For example, France has just raised its direct EV incentive from 6000 to 
7000 euros.  That's hard cash, folks, not a tax credit.  They also subsidize 
installation of EVSEs.  The automakers demanded subsidies on ICEVs too 
because of lost sales during the viral lockdowns, but France said "non, 
véhicules électriques seulement."  Can you imagine that happening in the US?

Aside from EVs, small, simple passenger cars are the least profitable 
vehicles worldwide.  The labor required to build them is roughly the same, 
but customers perceive large size and luxury as having high value.  
Therefore  big, luxurious vehicles can be priced higher than the actual 
additional manufacturing cost.

I suspect, but don't know for sure, that next least profitable are utility 
vehicles.  They sell in small numbers, but again have fewer high-margin 
luxury options and still require about the same amount of labor to assemble.

The fact that some customers PREFER low cost small vehicles and utility 
vehicles is immaterial.  The automakers and dealers don't like to sell them, 
so that's just too bad.  

Despite all the current optimism, I expect that in the long run, affordable  
US EVs will also tumble into the "not profitable enough" bin.  

I sure hope that Tesla survives, and comes up with something more affordable 
and smaller than the Model 3.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Lee Hart via EV]

Willie via EV wrote:

BINGO!  Vehicle buyers are generally VERY poorly served by the dealer
sales model.

A couple of decades ago, I thought I wanted a short cab long bed
Dodge/Cummins 3/4T pickup.  Dealers referred to such as "work trucks".
Dealers had a lot of big cabs but no "work trucks" with minimal frills
and maximum load space.  It took a long while to find what I sought. The
truck I bought turned out to be so noisy and rough riding that I avoided
using it.


I had much the same experience just last month. My little 2010 Chevy 
Colorado (successor to the S-10 small pickup) is wearing out. So I 
looked for a replacement. Nothing even close to that size.


The current Colorado is 2' longer, 1000 lbs heavier, and has a 1' 
shorter bed. No single-cab version is available. The only single-cab in 
Chevy's line-up is the full-size Silverado (3' longer, a full ton 
heavier, no more load capacity than my Colorado, and half the mpg). But 
though the dealer lots are full of 4-door pickups with 4' beds, no "work 
trucks" are available. I'd have to order one from Detroit; and they're 
shut down, so good luck getting delivery any time soon.


Tesla makes great (if expensive) cars; but the cybertruck looks like a 
car that only pretends to be a truck. That's too bad... because Tesla is 
the only automaker that *isn't* locked into the dealer model!


Lee Hart
--
If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find:
 - something to do
 - something to look forward to
 - someone to love
 - someone to take good care of
 - and misbehave, just a little
 --
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Willie via EV]

On 6/18/20 11:45 AM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:
haul stuff. Monster luxury pickups don't make sense.


Perhaps the problem is that the auto companies don't sell to end-users 
-- they sell to *dealers*. So the dealers dictate the features; what 
they want to sell; what gives them the highest profit margin.


BINGO!  Vehicle buyers are generally VERY poorly served by the dealer 
sales model.


A couple of decades ago, I thought I wanted a short cab long bed 
Dodge/Cummins 3/4T pickup.  Dealers referred to such as "work trucks". 
Dealers had a lot of big cabs but no "work trucks" with minimal frills 
and maximum load space.  It took a long while to find what I sought. 
The truck I bought turned out to be so noisy and rough riding that I 
avoided using it.  Shortly thereafter the Sprinter was offered.  A real 
dream compared to the Dodge.  Same load capacity, more space, protected 
space, about the same price,  engine half the size (with accompanying 
efficiency), and much more comfortable to drive.  I not very seriously 
considered converting the Sprinter.  There have been rumors for many 
years that Mercedes was going to offer a BEV Sprinter. But, I am no 
longer in the market for such vehicles.  At least, that is my current 
story.  A CyberTruck could entice me.


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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Lee Hart via EV]

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

Rather than have movable panels, wouldn't it be easier to just have a
deeper center channel.


Or, for crying out loud, a real 4'x8' bed? We've had small pickups and 
minivans that can do this for 50+ years!



Plywood can be inserted vertically.


Yes; but drywall can't.

Plus, there are all sorts of things that people like to haul that just 
won't fit in a short or narrow space. Haven't you ever helped anyone 
move? You really need the cargo space to haul a bed or couch or 
refrigerator *and* still fit in the rest of the furniture in the room. 
Or a slide in camper?


Then there are commercial users. They don't care what it looks like, or 
how many luxury features it has. They just want a cheap reliable way to 
haul stuff. Monster luxury pickups don't make sense.


Perhaps the problem is that the auto companies don't sell to end-users 
-- they sell to *dealers*. So the dealers dictate the features; what 
they want to sell; what gives them the highest profit margin.


Lee Hart
--
If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find:
 - something to do
 - something to look forward to
 - someone to love
 - someone to take good care of
 - and misbehave, just a little
 --
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Rather than have movable panels, wouldn't it be easier to just have a 
deeper center channel.


Plywood can be inserted vertically. The raised areas at the wheel wells 
can can be used for holding other things, like lumber. A bracket near 
the front of the cargo area can create a level platform with the wheel 
well covers, eliminating the need for fixed panels wasting space.


However, I have a suspicion that Gary's model uses the space between the 
wheel wells for the battery box, so all this is probably mute.


Regardless, it might be easier to modify the truck design to allow large 
sheets to be inserted vertically rather than horizontally. It's also 
easier on the back to load and unload when vertical.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Peter VanDerWal via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: e...@vanderwal.us
Sent: 17-Jun-20 8:13:55 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project


I was thinking about something along those lines.  Maybe false floor, in 
sections, that stores in the bed, but can be lifted up and fit into brackets on 
the sides so that they are even with the top of the wheel wells.  Store 2x4s, 
etc. under the raised floor and 4x8 sheets on top.


 Gary, maybe you can design it with a flat floor *above* the wheels? With small 
tires, the floor
 would still be much lower than the floor of any current pickup truck. You 
don't need the
 fashionable monster wheels that are so popular today.

 Lee Hart

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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Peter VanDerWal via EV]

Just for fun here is a photo of one of the ways I've hauled lumber home 
recently:
http://vanderwal.us/bike/Trailer_Lumber.jpg

for comparison here it is next to my old Nissan Frontier:
http://vanderwal.us/bike/TrikeTrailer.jpg

The Nissan's bed is actually 6" longer, but then again this is only the medium 
length version, they offer a model with an 8 foot bed and dual wheels rated to 
carry up to 600lbs.

I'm sure something similar could be done with most EVs :-)
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Peter VanDerWal via EV]

I was thinking about something along those lines.  Maybe false floor, in 
sections, that stores in the bed, but can be lifted up and fit into brackets on 
the sides so that they are even with the top of the wheel wells.  Store 2x4s, 
etc. under the raised floor and 4x8 sheets on top.

> Gary, maybe you can design it with a flat floor *above* the wheels? With 
> small tires, the floor
> would still be much lower than the floor of any current pickup truck. You 
> don't need the
> fashionable monster wheels that are so popular today.
> 
> Lee Hart
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Peter VanDerWal via EV]

Elon is apparently considering a couple options on the Cybertruck that would 
make it more suitable for hauling 4x8 sheets.

One is a flipstop on the tailgate, another was suggested to him on twitter 
recently and he seems to like the idea:  make the rear window roll down into a 
gate that can fold forward over the rear seat.  This would extend the bed into 
the cab.  Not only would this allow 4x8 sheets with the tailgate closed, but it 
would allow you to close the cover on the bed and sleep inside with the climate 
control system running, that would make it nice for camping when the weather is 
unpleasant.

June 16, 2020 6:12 PM, "Peri Hartman via EV"  wrote:

> Yeah, I've been following that. They're better than anything here but I doubt 
> most, if any, are
> large enough for 4x8 sheets.
> 
> The Rivian R1T will have a pass through for long items but 4x8 sheets will 
> still have to go high up
> on a rack (how are your lats and triceps ?).
> 
> Regardless, it looks like the next couple years are going to bring big 
> changes. Perhaps Tesla will
> do a minivan (though full of interior features rather than just space), 
> Mercedes, Toyota, and Ford.
> The latter two probably have the best chance of meeting the hauling niche. 
> Whether any of them
> actually do what is rumored, ...
> 
> Peri
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 17 Jun 2020 at 1:12, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

> Mercedes, Toyota, and Ford. The latter two probably have the best
> chance of meeting the hauling niche. Whether any of them actually do
> what is rumored, ... 

Funny the reputation Mercedes has in the US.  From my admittedly casual 
exposure, It seems quite different in Europe.  I don't know that I'd say 
they're any less likely to develop a substantial hauler than the other two.

Whether it and anything else that the other major automakers develop shows 
up in the US is, IMO, a bigger question mark.  Much of their EV effort is 
focused on the EU and Asia these days.  Those are the places that are 
REQUIRING EVs, and offering significant incentives for them.  And that is 
where EVs are selling.  Renault's second largest selling vehicle in January 
(before the epidemic hit) was an EV.

Let's hope that I'm being too pessimistic about the US EV future.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Yeah, I've been following that. They're better than anything here but I 
doubt most, if any, are large enough for 4x8 sheets.


The Rivian R1T will have a pass through for long items but 4x8 sheets 
will still have to go high up on a rack (how are your lats and triceps 
?).


Regardless, it looks like the next couple years are going to bring big 
changes. Perhaps Tesla will do a minivan (though full of interior 
features rather than just space), Mercedes, Toyota, and Ford. The latter 
two probably have the best chance of meeting the hauling niche. Whether 
any of them actually do what is rumored, ...


Peri

<< Want to know about the effects of leaf blowers ? 
https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>


-- Original Message --
From: "EVDL Administrator" 
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" 

Sent: 16-Jun-20 5:38:02 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project


On 16 Jun 2020 at 23:59, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:


 So, if someone were to produce a long-range "useful"
 minivan at a "basic" price, that would be preferable.


You have choices!  All you have to do is move to where the government
actually gives a fig about the environment - that is, just about any major
industrialized nation other than the US.

Have a look here:

https://www.drivingelectric.com/best-cars/586/best-electric-vans-2020

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Steves via EV]

When I first heard about the Tesla pickup (and before seeing what it was ) I 
started thinking about what I’d want in an electric pickup that opens up 
possibilities not available in an ICE. It would have a bed that could hold 4x8 
plywood and an opening that would extend to the front that could handle 12’ 
lumber (maybe between the seats). The batteries would all be under that and the 
cab would be over. I was kind off disappointed  that the Tesla didn’t seem to 
take great advantage of the space that an EV could offer. 

-Steve

> On Jun 16, 2020, at 8:37 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> On 16 Jun 2020 at 23:59, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> 
>> So, if someone were to produce a long-range "useful" 
>> minivan at a "basic" price, that would be preferable. 
> 
> You have choices!  All you have to do is move to where the government 
> actually gives a fig about the environment - that is, just about any major 
> industrialized nation other than the US.
> 
> Have a look here:
> 
> https://www.drivingelectric.com/best-cars/586/best-electric-vans-2020
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 16 Jun 2020 at 23:59, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

> So, if someone were to produce a long-range "useful" 
> minivan at a "basic" price, that would be preferable. 

You have choices!  All you have to do is move to where the government 
actually gives a fig about the environment - that is, just about any major 
industrialized nation other than the US.

Have a look here:

https://www.drivingelectric.com/best-cars/586/best-electric-vans-2020

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Lee Hart via EV]

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

my odyssey 2000 minivan... holds 4 of 4x8 sheets flat on the floor with the
tail gate shut... I can even get a limited number of 12' boards inside with
the gate shut.


Right on point. I had an '87 and '92 Dodge minivans, and they could do 
it. I had a 2002 VW Eurovan that would *easily* do it (huge inside, 
small outside). But it was a reliability headache.


When it came time to replace it in 2014, we couldn't find any new 
minivans that could do it. The Odyssey was a possibility, but our local 
Honda dealer was a jerk, and didn't stock nor service them. The Toyota 
Sienna could only do it if you piled them on *top* of the seats and left 
the rear hatch open.


Likewise, the traditional small-cab full-bed pickups were already gone 
by that time. Only available as full-size 5000 lbs "work trucks". 
Everything has gone to 4-5 passenger cabls with only half a bed. I ended 
up buying a used Chevy Colorado pickup. To carry drywall in it, I have 
to put a sheet of 3/4" plywood in first, on top of the wheel wells, and 
set the tailgate to half-open position to act as a shelf to support the 
back.



Maybe I should convert it :)


I keep thinking the same thing. Find an older minivan or pickup that's 
in exceptionally good shape, and convert it into an EV or hybrid.


Lee

--
If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find:
 - something to do
 - something to look forward to
 - someone to love
 - someone to take good care of
 - and misbehave, just a little
 --
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Peri Hartman via EV]

That's why I've kept my odyssey 2000 minivan. It holds 4 of 4x8 sheets 
flat on the floor with the tail gate shut. With it open, I can get 20 
sheets inside plus a bunch of lumber. I can even get a limited number of 
12' boards inside with the gate shut. Mostly I use it for hauling 
relatively small quantities of lumber, as large loads are usually 
delivered.


Maybe I should convert it :)

Thinking of a conversion, I believe I have about 5-6" of space under the 
floor. There's a spare tire (which maybe could go under the hood? ), the 
gas tank, and the exhaust system. It also has a pocket for the back seat 
to drop into, but I probably want to keep that. Since I would be 
removing everything, I think I might be able to get a battery box of 
about 10' x 4' x 5" under there and still have the same ground 
clearance.


One of the reasons not to convert is that final product is still an old 
car with worn interiors, small dents all over the outside, and outdated 
safety features. So, if someone were to produce a long-range "useful" 
minivan at a "basic" price, that would be preferable. If I only wanted 
it for city (which I need to think about), Gary's van might be suitable.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Lee Hart via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Lee Hart" 
Sent: 16-Jun-20 2:26:46 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project


Willie via EV wrote:

On 6/16/20 3:12 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

Is it too late to change your design a bit ? If you can get one of the
dimensions 48" or more, then it is more useful in construction, for
hauling plywood, drywall, and other sheet items.



Perhaps they've made provision for loading 4'x8' sheets
tilted/diagonally?  Or, hanging over the edge.


This touches on a pet peeve of mine as well. I've had trucks or vans for my whole adult life, and 
have frequently hauled heavy or dirty stuff and 4'x8' sheets of material in them. That's what 
"trucks" are for! It was pretty much a "given" that you had to be able to get a 
4'x8' sheet in them.

But over the years, the "trucks" have become cars with bodies that only look 
like trucks. The size and weight of the vehicle keeps getting bigger, but its usefulness 
as a truck gets worse and worse.

None of the minivans have a 48" wide floor, nor a 48" high ceiling. None of the 
small pickups can carry a 4'x8' sheet without both the length *and* width hanging out. 
Try to haul a sheet of drywall propped up on a wheel well and it will break on the first 
pothole. Yet the vehicles are huge, and weigh 5000 lbs.

Gary, maybe you can design it with a flat floor *above* the wheels? With small 
tires, the floor would still be much lower than the floor of any current pickup 
truck. You don't need the fashionable monster wheels that are so popular today.

Lee Hart

-- If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find:
 - something to do
 - something to look forward to
 - someone to love
 - someone to take good care of
 - and misbehave, just a little
 --
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Steves via EV]

My 99 odyssey will just barely take a sheet of plywood flat. If I pull the 
front seats forward I can close the tailgate, but it’s cramped for my 6’2” 
frame in the drivers seat.  

-Steve

> On Jun 16, 2020, at 5:25 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> 
> Willie via EV wrote:
>>> On 6/16/20 3:12 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>>> Is it too late to change your design a bit ? If you can get one of the
>>> dimensions 48" or more, then it is more useful in construction, for
>>> hauling plywood, drywall, and other sheet items.
> 
>> Perhaps they've made provision for loading 4'x8' sheets
>> tilted/diagonally?  Or, hanging over the edge.
> 
> This touches on a pet peeve of mine as well. I've had trucks or vans for my 
> whole adult life, and have frequently hauled heavy or dirty stuff and 4'x8' 
> sheets of material in them. That's what "trucks" are for! It was pretty much 
> a "given" that you had to be able to get a 4'x8' sheet in them.
> 
> But over the years, the "trucks" have become cars with bodies that only look 
> like trucks. The size and weight of the vehicle keeps getting bigger, but its 
> usefulness as a truck gets worse and worse.
> 
> None of the minivans have a 48" wide floor, nor a 48" high ceiling. None of 
> the small pickups can carry a 4'x8' sheet without both the length *and* width 
> hanging out. Try to haul a sheet of drywall propped up on a wheel well and it 
> will break on the first pothole. Yet the vehicles are huge, and weigh 5000 
> lbs.
> 
> Gary, maybe you can design it with a flat floor *above* the wheels? With 
> small tires, the floor would still be much lower than the floor of any 
> current pickup truck. You don't need the fashionable monster wheels that are 
> so popular today.
> 
> Lee Hart
> 
> -- 
> If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find:
> - something to do
> - something to look forward to
> - someone to love
> - someone to take good care of
> - and misbehave, just a little
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Lee Hart via EV]

Willie via EV wrote:

On 6/16/20 3:12 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

Is it too late to change your design a bit ? If you can get one of the
dimensions 48" or more, then it is more useful in construction, for
hauling plywood, drywall, and other sheet items.



Perhaps they've made provision for loading 4'x8' sheets
tilted/diagonally?  Or, hanging over the edge.


This touches on a pet peeve of mine as well. I've had trucks or vans for 
my whole adult life, and have frequently hauled heavy or dirty stuff and 
4'x8' sheets of material in them. That's what "trucks" are for! It was 
pretty much a "given" that you had to be able to get a 4'x8' sheet in them.


But over the years, the "trucks" have become cars with bodies that only 
look like trucks. The size and weight of the vehicle keeps getting 
bigger, but its usefulness as a truck gets worse and worse.


None of the minivans have a 48" wide floor, nor a 48" high ceiling. None 
of the small pickups can carry a 4'x8' sheet without both the length 
*and* width hanging out. Try to haul a sheet of drywall propped up on a 
wheel well and it will break on the first pothole. Yet the vehicles are 
huge, and weigh 5000 lbs.


Gary, maybe you can design it with a flat floor *above* the wheels? With 
small tires, the floor would still be much lower than the floor of any 
current pickup truck. You don't need the fashionable monster wheels that 
are so popular today.


Lee Hart

--
If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find:
 - something to do
 - something to look forward to
 - someone to love
 - someone to take good care of
 - and misbehave, just a little
 --
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Gary Krysztopik via EV]

I agree on the width.  Never too late.  A flatbed version would be easy and
increasing the height would be easy (I already proposed that) but he sized
it for standard size sheet skins.  The width is narrow because the designer
went with outside wheels instead of having wheel wells so that the cargo
area is a clean rectangular shape.  We just went with his current CAD model
to get a test mule running.  I borrowed a chop saw and MIG welder then
ordered a pile of steel tubing before shutdown figuring I wanted a fun
garage project to get through this.  The roller is pretty much done so now
I get to the fun part of electrical stuff.  Planning on HPEVS drive and
Orion BMS, well-proven and made in the USA.  I want to mock up a Ford Model
T nose to put on it, it fits the character.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 1:12 PM Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> Is it too late to change your design a bit ? If you can get one of the
> dimensions 48" or more, then it is more useful in construction, for
> hauling plywood, drywall, and other sheet items.
>
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Gary Krysztopik via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc: "Gary Krysztopik" 
> Sent: 16-Jun-20 10:48:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project
>
> >Lee - " track 58" x 120" wheelbase, cargo area 44" x 40" x 80".  Pickup
> >truck or van, 1500lbs empty with 1500 lbs load."
> >
> >I would say we need to change some laws instead of trying to conform to
> >something that doesn't makes sense.
> >
> >On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:31 AM Lee Hart via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> >>  Gary Krysztopik via EV wrote:
> >>  > I am working on a small van with a few other guys.  We were talking
> about
> >>  > kits but not sure yet, maybe only turn-key.  It is made in the USA,
> >>  > high-power NEV/LSEV with 60 cu ft/1500 lb capacity.  Multiple
> battery and
> >>  > drive options.  Attempting under $20K before incentives.  Prototype
> >>  roller
> >>  > is complete, test driving this summer.
> >>
> >>  Hi Gary,
> >>
> >>  Sounds like a good project. What size van?
> >>
> >>  Note that if it's classified as NEV/LSEV, there will be states where it
> >>  can't be used. Last I knew, my own state of MN specifically bans
> >>  "NEV/LSEV conversions and home built vehicles.".
> >>
> >>  A project I'm thinking of is a hybrid conversion of a pickup or van
> with
> >>  read wheel drive. Add the electric motor to the drive shaft. Use a
> motor
> >>  and controller that allows regen. This could add EV short range and low
> >>  speed capability to the typical gas-hog American pickups.
> >>
> >>  Lee Hart
> >>  --
> >>  If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find:
> >>- something to do
> >>- something to look forward to
> >>- someone to love
> >>- someone to take good care of
> >>- and misbehave, just a little
> >>--
> >>  Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> >>  ___
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> >>
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Willie via EV]

On 6/16/20 3:12 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
Is it too late to change your design a bit ? If you can get one of the 
dimensions 48" or more, then it is more useful in construction, for 
hauling plywood, drywall, and other sheet items.


Perhaps they've made provision for loading 4'x8' sheets 
tilted/diagonally?  Or, hanging over the edge.


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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Is it too late to change your design a bit ? If you can get one of the 
dimensions 48" or more, then it is more useful in construction, for 
hauling plywood, drywall, and other sheet items.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Gary Krysztopik via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Gary Krysztopik" 
Sent: 16-Jun-20 10:48:36 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project


Lee - " track 58" x 120" wheelbase, cargo area 44" x 40" x 80".  Pickup
truck or van, 1500lbs empty with 1500 lbs load."

I would say we need to change some laws instead of trying to conform to
something that doesn't makes sense.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:31 AM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:


 Gary Krysztopik via EV wrote:
 > I am working on a small van with a few other guys.  We were talking about
 > kits but not sure yet, maybe only turn-key.  It is made in the USA,
 > high-power NEV/LSEV with 60 cu ft/1500 lb capacity.  Multiple battery and
 > drive options.  Attempting under $20K before incentives.  Prototype
 roller
 > is complete, test driving this summer.

 Hi Gary,

 Sounds like a good project. What size van?

 Note that if it's classified as NEV/LSEV, there will be states where it
 can't be used. Last I knew, my own state of MN specifically bans
 "NEV/LSEV conversions and home built vehicles.".

 A project I'm thinking of is a hybrid conversion of a pickup or van with
 read wheel drive. Add the electric motor to the drive shaft. Use a motor
 and controller that allows regen. This could add EV short range and low
 speed capability to the typical gas-hog American pickups.

 Lee Hart
 --
 If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find:
   - something to do
   - something to look forward to
   - someone to love
   - someone to take good care of
   - and misbehave, just a little
   --
 Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Gary Krysztopik via EV]

Lee - " track 58" x 120" wheelbase, cargo area 44" x 40" x 80".  Pickup
truck or van, 1500lbs empty with 1500 lbs load."

I would say we need to change some laws instead of trying to conform to
something that doesn't makes sense.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:31 AM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> Gary Krysztopik via EV wrote:
> > I am working on a small van with a few other guys.  We were talking about
> > kits but not sure yet, maybe only turn-key.  It is made in the USA,
> > high-power NEV/LSEV with 60 cu ft/1500 lb capacity.  Multiple battery and
> > drive options.  Attempting under $20K before incentives.  Prototype
> roller
> > is complete, test driving this summer.
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> Sounds like a good project. What size van?
>
> Note that if it's classified as NEV/LSEV, there will be states where it
> can't be used. Last I knew, my own state of MN specifically bans
> "NEV/LSEV conversions and home built vehicles.".
>
> A project I'm thinking of is a hybrid conversion of a pickup or van with
> read wheel drive. Add the electric motor to the drive shaft. Use a motor
> and controller that allows regen. This could add EV short range and low
> speed capability to the typical gas-hog American pickups.
>
> Lee Hart
> --
> If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find:
>   - something to do
>   - something to look forward to
>   - someone to love
>   - someone to take good care of
>   - and misbehave, just a little
>   --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Lee Hart via EV]

Gary Krysztopik via EV wrote:

I am working on a small van with a few other guys.  We were talking about
kits but not sure yet, maybe only turn-key.  It is made in the USA,
high-power NEV/LSEV with 60 cu ft/1500 lb capacity.  Multiple battery and
drive options.  Attempting under $20K before incentives.  Prototype roller
is complete, test driving this summer.


Hi Gary,

Sounds like a good project. What size van?

Note that if it's classified as NEV/LSEV, there will be states where it 
can't be used. Last I knew, my own state of MN specifically bans 
"NEV/LSEV conversions and home built vehicles.".


A project I'm thinking of is a hybrid conversion of a pickup or van with 
read wheel drive. Add the electric motor to the drive shaft. Use a motor 
and controller that allows regen. This could add EV short range and low 
speed capability to the typical gas-hog American pickups.


Lee Hart
--
If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find:
 - something to do
 - something to look forward to
 - someone to love
 - someone to take good care of
 - and misbehave, just a little
 --
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Gary Krysztopik via EV]

I can't share all details because it is not my design but I can try to
answer questions.  It's a simple welded steel box frame with a straight
axle in the rear and double wishbone front end with disc brakes and manual
steering on the base model.  We are looking at two drive systems, both AC
with regen up to 65 HP.  That's a lot for an NEV but the typical 5-15 HP is
a tough sell in the U.S. and off road use is another market so we wanted
options for bigger motors.  The battery area is big, so there should be
plenty of room for expansion.  We have some Tesla/Smart car modules that
are available so I will use those for the prototype.  I will share some
pictures when I get permission but right now it's a bare frame with two
seats.  Waiting on axle/drive system delivery (two different systems will
be tested) but the brakes, steering and suspension are almost complete.
The body will be simple metal panels with flexible configuration, doors
with power windows, track 58" x 120" wheelbase, cargo area 44" x 40" x
80".  Pickup truck or van, 1500lbs empty with 1500 lbs load.  As far as
styling, I hope the Cyber truck made straight lines sexy again because this
is a simple utility vehicle.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 7:47 AM Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> Gary, it sounds interesting. Do you have any details to share ?
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Gary Krysztopik via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc: "Gary Krysztopik" 
> Sent: 15-Jun-20 11:35:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project
>
> >I am working on a small van with a few other guys.  We were talking about
> >kits but not sure yet, maybe only turn-key.  It is made in the USA,
> >high-power NEV/LSEV with 60 cu ft/1500 lb capacity.  Multiple battery and
> >drive options.  Attempting under $20K before incentives.  Prototype roller
> >is complete, test driving this summer.
> >
> >Gary
> >
> >On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 6:48 PM evln via EV  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>  [ref
> >>
> >>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/What-is-CCS-v-tp4697684p4697745.html
> >>  George Mullineaux via EV wrote: My wife hauls farm supplies with her
> >>  vehicle
> >>  and will many times coordinate a trip to the grocery store at the same
> >>  time.
> >>  With the rear seats folded away, I have seen her completely fill her
> >>  Silhouette van from front to rear.
> >>  ]
> >>
> >>  As Lee said, you could convert an ice(fuel) truck or van.
> >>  The evalbum site has many examples to learn and draw from. See:
> >>
> >>http://www.evalbum.com/type/TRCK
> >>
> >>https://www.google.com/search?q=site:evalbum.com+truck
> >>
> >>http://www.evalbum.com/type/VANS
> >>
> >>https://www.google.com/search?q=site:evalbum.com+van
> >>
> >>https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aevalbum.com+ute
> >>
> >>   the are also EV conversion kits and EV converters that will sell EV
> >>  conversion components/parts,
> >>  (1 example of many sources
> >>https://canev.com/product/s10-kit/
> >>  ), or have them to do the conversion work (which what I did).
> >>   (Back in the 1990s I didn't have a garage to do the work in nor the
> time.
> >>  So, I threw money at an EV converter company to make my Chevy S-10
> >>  Blazer EV -retired/defunct-
> >>http://brucedp.tripod.com/blazer/
> >>
> >>https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+s-10+blazer
> >>  )
> >>
> >>
> >>https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+truck+conversion+kit
> >>   searches for conversion kits
> >>https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+van+conversion+kit
> >>
> >>  Or as we've read
> >>
> >>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-1-732-2020-Changli-Nemeca-Cheapest-60V-cn-nEV-ts-32kph-v-tp4697647.html
> >>   some people are bold enough to take a chance on a very cheap Asian
> made
> >>  nEV(35mph).
> >>
> >>  Most of the links below lead to nEVs, but that site does mix ice with
> EVs.
> >>
> >>  import search:
> >>
> >>
> https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=electric+farm+pickup+truck&viewtype=&tab=
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=electric+cargo&viewtype=&tab=
> >>
> &g

Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Gary, it sounds interesting. Do you have any details to share ?
Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Gary Krysztopik via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Gary Krysztopik" 
Sent: 15-Jun-20 11:35:45 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project


I am working on a small van with a few other guys.  We were talking about
kits but not sure yet, maybe only turn-key.  It is made in the USA,
high-power NEV/LSEV with 60 cu ft/1500 lb capacity.  Multiple battery and
drive options.  Attempting under $20K before incentives.  Prototype roller
is complete, test driving this summer.

Gary

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 6:48 PM evln via EV  wrote:




 [ref

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/What-is-CCS-v-tp4697684p4697745.html
 George Mullineaux via EV wrote: My wife hauls farm supplies with her
 vehicle
 and will many times coordinate a trip to the grocery store at the same
 time.
 With the rear seats folded away, I have seen her completely fill her
 Silhouette van from front to rear.
 ]

 As Lee said, you could convert an ice(fuel) truck or van.
 The evalbum site has many examples to learn and draw from. See:

http://www.evalbum.com/type/TRCK

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:evalbum.com+truck

http://www.evalbum.com/type/VANS

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:evalbum.com+van

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aevalbum.com+ute

  the are also EV conversion kits and EV converters that will sell EV
 conversion components/parts,
 (1 example of many sources
https://canev.com/product/s10-kit/
 ), or have them to do the conversion work (which what I did).
  (Back in the 1990s I didn't have a garage to do the work in nor the time.
 So, I threw money at an EV converter company to make my Chevy S-10
 Blazer EV -retired/defunct-
http://brucedp.tripod.com/blazer/

https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+s-10+blazer
 )


https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+truck+conversion+kit
  searches for conversion kits
https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+van+conversion+kit

 Or as we've read

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-1-732-2020-Changli-Nemeca-Cheapest-60V-cn-nEV-ts-32kph-v-tp4697647.html
  some people are bold enough to take a chance on a very cheap Asian made
 nEV(35mph).

 Most of the links below lead to nEVs, but that site does mix ice with EVs.

 import search:

https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=electric+farm+pickup+truck&viewtype=&tab=


https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=electric+cargo&viewtype=&tab=

 import nEVs:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Four-Doors-Electric-Mini-Pickup-for_60738032927.html?spm=a2700.details.deiletai6.3.59315a09eelD23


https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/EEC-approval-tuk-tuk-electric-cargo_62110541235.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.117b6e35sDivit


https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/MINI-electric-off-road-pickup-truck_60609959280.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.7f7c6882WROKjj


https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Electric-Mini-Pickup-Truck-for-Farm_60450984775.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.4efd1e31kFLwvg

  import very-cheap

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/closed-driver-cabin-1200w-60V-electric_62539865253.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.448d7283XvHB00




 For EVLN EV-newswire posts view:
http://www.evdl.org/archive/
https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html


 {brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: [EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[Gary Krysztopik via EV]

I am working on a small van with a few other guys.  We were talking about
kits but not sure yet, maybe only turn-key.  It is made in the USA,
high-power NEV/LSEV with 60 cu ft/1500 lb capacity.  Multiple battery and
drive options.  Attempting under $20K before incentives.  Prototype roller
is complete, test driving this summer.

Gary

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 6:48 PM evln via EV  wrote:

>
>
> [ref
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/What-is-CCS-v-tp4697684p4697745.html
> George Mullineaux via EV wrote: My wife hauls farm supplies with her
> vehicle
> and will many times coordinate a trip to the grocery store at the same
> time.
> With the rear seats folded away, I have seen her completely fill her
> Silhouette van from front to rear.
> ]
>
> As Lee said, you could convert an ice(fuel) truck or van.
> The evalbum site has many examples to learn and draw from. See:
>
> http://www.evalbum.com/type/TRCK
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=site:evalbum.com+truck
>
> http://www.evalbum.com/type/VANS
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=site:evalbum.com+van
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aevalbum.com+ute
>
>  the are also EV conversion kits and EV converters that will sell EV
> conversion components/parts,
> (1 example of many sources
> https://canev.com/product/s10-kit/
> ), or have them to do the conversion work (which what I did).
>  (Back in the 1990s I didn't have a garage to do the work in nor the time.
> So, I threw money at an EV converter company to make my Chevy S-10
> Blazer EV -retired/defunct-
> http://brucedp.tripod.com/blazer/
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+s-10+blazer
> )
>
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+truck+conversion+kit
>  searches for conversion kits
> https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+van+conversion+kit
>
> Or as we've read
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-1-732-2020-Changli-Nemeca-Cheapest-60V-cn-nEV-ts-32kph-v-tp4697647.html
>  some people are bold enough to take a chance on a very cheap Asian made
> nEV(35mph).
>
> Most of the links below lead to nEVs, but that site does mix ice with EVs.
>
> import search:
>
> https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=electric+farm+pickup+truck&viewtype=&tab=
>
>
> https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=electric+cargo&viewtype=&tab=
>
> import nEVs:
>
> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Four-Doors-Electric-Mini-Pickup-for_60738032927.html?spm=a2700.details.deiletai6.3.59315a09eelD23
>
>
> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/EEC-approval-tuk-tuk-electric-cargo_62110541235.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.117b6e35sDivit
>
>
> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/MINI-electric-off-road-pickup-truck_60609959280.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.7f7c6882WROKjj
>
>
> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Electric-Mini-Pickup-Truck-for-Farm_60450984775.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.4efd1e31kFLwvg
>
>  import very-cheap
>
> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/closed-driver-cabin-1200w-60V-electric_62539865253.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.448d7283XvHB00
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts view:
>  http://www.evdl.org/archive/
> https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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[EVDL] George's farm truck/van EV project

[evln via EV]

[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/What-is-CCS-v-tp4697684p4697745.html
George Mullineaux via EV wrote: My wife hauls farm supplies with her vehicle
and will many times coordinate a trip to the grocery store at the same time.
With the rear seats folded away, I have seen her completely fill her
Silhouette van from front to rear.
] 

As Lee said, you could convert an ice(fuel) truck or van. 
The evalbum site has many examples to learn and draw from. See:

http://www.evalbum.com/type/TRCK

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:evalbum.com+truck

http://www.evalbum.com/type/VANS

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:evalbum.com+van

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aevalbum.com+ute

 the are also EV conversion kits and EV converters that will sell EV
conversion components/parts, 
(1 example of many sources
https://canev.com/product/s10-kit/
), or have them to do the conversion work (which what I did).
 (Back in the 1990s I didn't have a garage to do the work in nor the time. 
So, I threw money at an EV converter company to make my Chevy S-10 
Blazer EV -retired/defunct-
http://brucedp.tripod.com/blazer/

https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+s-10+blazer
)


https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+truck+conversion+kit
 searches for conversion kits
https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+van+conversion+kit

Or as we've read
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-1-732-2020-Changli-Nemeca-Cheapest-60V-cn-nEV-ts-32kph-v-tp4697647.html
 some people are bold enough to take a chance on a very cheap Asian made
nEV(35mph).

Most of the links below lead to nEVs, but that site does mix ice with EVs.

import search:
https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=electric+farm+pickup+truck&viewtype=&tab=

https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=electric+cargo&viewtype=&tab=

import nEVs:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Four-Doors-Electric-Mini-Pickup-for_60738032927.html?spm=a2700.details.deiletai6.3.59315a09eelD23

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/EEC-approval-tuk-tuk-electric-cargo_62110541235.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.117b6e35sDivit

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/MINI-electric-off-road-pickup-truck_60609959280.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.7f7c6882WROKjj

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Electric-Mini-Pickup-Truck-for-Farm_60450984775.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.4efd1e31kFLwvg

 import very-cheap
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/closed-driver-cabin-1200w-60V-electric_62539865253.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.448d7283XvHB00




For EVLN EV-newswire posts view:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/
https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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