- Original Message -
From: via EV winfield...@yahoo.com ev@lists.evdl.org
To: Willie2 wmckem...@gmail.com, Electric Vehicle Discussion List
ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 17:29:45 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi
EV
I wonder how many could have bypassed using a car altogether, and ridden a bike
or taken a bus.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 29, 2014, at 9:14 PM, Dennis Miles dmiles33...@gmail.com wrote:
85% of driven trip miles were under 39 miles. Also,
99% of driven trip miles were less than 100 miles
Ben Goren via EV wrote:
Obviously, a car that's superior (and actually used) for 85% of driving should
be considered the primary car -- even if such a car generally isn't an option
as the only car for a single-car family.
That's generally how I've been using my EVs for 30+ years. It's my
Now the dust has settled somewhat, does anyone has the insider knowledge of why
Tesla abandoned the 40kWh pack and why, more interestingly, it didn't come with
a supercharger option?
I still think it would have a market, particularly in Asia and Europe where
shorter average journeys are the
I can understand all the issues people have raised on this thread. The simple
fact is that hardly any of the Renault range is selling. As a long term EVer,
I would not be swayed by the battery lease idea unless it was very cheap -
$10/month or so. I have sufficient faith in the battery tech
On 08/29/2014 03:36 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV wrote:
Now the dust has settled somewhat, does anyone has the insider knowledge of why
Tesla abandoned the 40kWh pack and why, more interestingly, it didn't come with
a supercharger option?
I still think it would have a market, particularly in Asia
Why make an effort to sell lower priced 40kwh cars? - Right now, I agree, but
... because, as I previously stated, in Europe and much of Asia, long distance
is not the issue, it's car cost and range anxiety. If you can sell a car for
$10k less without the buyer having to worry about range
in Europe... Asia, long distance is not the issue,
it's car cost and range anxiety. If you can sell a car
for $10k less without the buyer having to worry about range anxiety
(because there is a good rapid charge infrastructure...) then you'll
sell more cars.
The goal is not to just sell
On 08/29/2014 08:38 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
The goal is to stop burning fossil fuel for everyday local commuting
which can be done better/cheaper/and more conveniently (never having
to refuel) in an EV. [as long as it is plugged in overnight (or at
work) while parked]. EV's CHARGE
On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 1:36 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
Now the dust has settled somewhat, does anyone has the insider knowledge of
why Tesla abandoned the 40kWh pack and why, more interestingly, it didn't
come with a supercharger option?
I remember reading some time
On 29 Aug 2014 at 9:38, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
We need to stop focusing on range (and public charging). Focus on
educating drivers of the EV value-promise.
Maybe I'm just seeing this with older eyes than you are, but it seems to me
that we've been trying to do just that for nearly a
On Aug 29, 2014, at 10:27 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:
IIRC, the average person thinks that he needs about 150 miles of EV range.
He doesn't really, but that's his perception.
That depends on your definition of, need.
Sure, 90% of trips are under 150 miles -- but
On Aug 28, 2014, at 9:44 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:
However, for a long as I've followed EVs (and that's over 40 years) the
battery has always been the main source of reliability problems.
For me, too. That's why I'm looking to use the smallest pack I can get away
To Ben Goren, in particular and all of the members of the EVDL in
general, I am not arguing with you and your need for range which can
presently be met only with gasoline or diesel according to my
interpretation of your statements. In the USA we have been surveyed
and this data was presented to
-- Original Message --
From: Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: Dennis Miles dmiles33...@gmail.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion
List ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: 29-Aug-14 2:54:22 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or
lower 100mi EV cost?
On Aug 29, 2014, at 1
On Fri Aug 29 15:03:02 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
I think one could argue that if you take a 100 mile trip once every 6
weeks, an EV for everything else might work. Renting once every 6 weeks
would be reasonable, perhaps.
However, aside from the Tesla, 100 mile trips aren't possible. More
Yes. Rental companies have those type of agreements - you get a key fob
or something like that and can reserve a car online and minutes later
go pick it up.
Also, there's flex car and car-2-go.
Peri
-- Original Message --
From: John Lussmyer cou...@casadelgato.com
To: Electric
On Aug 29, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
I think one could argue that if you take a 100 mile trip once every 6 weeks,
an EV for everything else might work. Renting once every 6 weeks would be
reasonable, perhaps.
For some, perhaps. It's definitely much less
You bring up a lot of useful considerations, Ben.
I'll just quibble somewhat with your conclusion below about BEVs as a
second car.
...for families that are going to have two cars anyway...
Actually a lot of folks are reporting that what becomes the second car
is the ICE, not the BEV.
On Aug 29, 2014, at 4:32 PM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
I'll just quibble somewhat with your conclusion below about BEVs as a second
car.
Excellent point. Obviously, a car that's superior (and actually used) for 85%
of driving should be considered the primary car -- even if such
85% of driven trip miles were under 39 miles. Also,
99% of driven trip miles were less than 100 miles ,
leaving only 1% of trip miles being over 100 miles.
Less than one percent of trips are over 100 miles.
That suggests that three trips per year are over 100 miles. Not having
the original
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 3:53 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
A new study brings an old topic back to the forefront: how much range is
enough, and is it better to use battery advancements to decrease price
without improving range or make electric vehicles go further on a charge?
On Aug 28, 2014, at 4:54 AM, Chris Tromley via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 3:53 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
A new study brings an old topic back to the forefront: how much range is
enough, and is it better to use battery advancements to decrease price
how much range is enough...is it better to... decrease price
without improving range or make electric vehicles go further on a charge?
Why not do both?
Amen. I like the new Nissan concept of a range of batteries to match the
individual.
I do not want to spend extra 10's of thousands of
On Aug 28, 2014, at 6:51 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
how much range is enough...is it better to... decrease price
without improving range or make electric vehicles go further on a charge?
Why not do both?
Amen. I like the new Nissan concept of a range of
Hi Ed,
I agree with your logistical work up. It makes sense. But...
can simply have the pack swapped
This jumps out at me as a stretch. You are talking about putting in 140%
more battery pack to get to 60kWh At the very least, you would have to buy
a car with 140% more space in it for
Yes but to make battery swapping economical we need the D cell for car
batteries and given the proliferation of laptop and camera batteries that
seems unlikely. You can buy a rechargeable D cell at your local retail
store that has a capacity of 2200maH just like the AA beside it - guess
what -
Certainly the BEV dan be designed to make the battery swappable, or to
make it modular and adding another module for longer range becomes
feasible simply putting the pack modules in a box below the cabin
floor could be one solution but a retrofit to a model which never
intended supplemental packs
On Thu Aug 28 10:31:39 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
Certainly the BEV dan be designed to make the battery swappable, or to
make it modular and adding another module for longer range becomes
feasible simply putting the pack modules in a box below the cabin
floor could be one solution but a
On Aug 28, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Dennis Miles via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
Certainly the BEV dan be designed to make the battery swappable
Indeed, Tesla has already done that. I'm sure most here have already seen this,
but even so it's worth the few minutes to watch it again:
Don't know yet, might just let them run free and have you check food and gather
eggs.
Paul Ellcessor
On Aug 28, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
On Aug 28, 2014, at 10:09 AM, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
There is a certain material inefficiency
On Aug 28, 2014, at 12:07 PM, Ed Blackmond via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
In the leasing model, battery packs have a guaranteed capacity. It does
not have a guaranteed manufacture date.
That implies a corollary: that you might buy the car with a lease on a 24 kWh
battery...but are you still
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014, Ben Goren wrote:
On Aug 28, 2014, at 12:07 PM, Ed Blackmond via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
In the leasing model, battery packs have a guaranteed capacity. It does
not have a guaranteed manufacture date.
That implies a corollary: that you might buy the car with a
On 28 Aug 2014 at 13:47, Ed Blackmond via EV wrote:
I see this as the way to make the econobox electric vehicles possible. The
Nissan Leaf would sell for the same price as its essential twin the Versa and
the battery pack would be leased.
This is what Renault (Nissan's French partner) is
On Aug 28, 2014, at 1:47 PM, Ed Blackmond via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
I see this as the way to make the econobox electric vehicles possible.
The Nissan Leaf would sell for the same price as its essential twin the
Versa and the battery pack would be leased.
If it plays out like that and
On Aug 28, 2014, at 2:26 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:
From what I've read, part of the idea behind their lease - they'll sell you
the car, but not the battery - is to keep the car's selling price low. I
think the battery lease costs about what you'd spend on on
On 8/28/2014 5:49 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:
On Aug 28, 2014, at 2:26 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV
ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
From what I've read, part of the idea behind their lease - they'll
sell you the car, but not the battery - is to keep the car's
selling price low. I think the battery
On Aug 28, 2014, at 6:16 PM, Rick Beebe via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
Slight variant: I'm leasing a Smart ED and renting the battery.
Considering how young and rapidly evolving the EV world is, leasing and / or
renting makes more sense than it does in the gasoline world. At the end of the
On 28 Aug 2014 at 14:49, Ben Goren via EV wrote:
an econobox that costs more -- that costs as much to purchase, as much
to lease the battery as buy the gas, and then you have to pay for the
electricity on top of it? And still has limited range and probably very
slow charging? Who's going to
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