Re: A crazy thoughts about structure of Electron.

2012-05-09 Thread socra...@bezeqint.net
Electron’s fine structure constant. =. It is interesting to understand the Sommerfeld formula: a= e^2 / h*c, where {a} is fine structure constant: 1/137 Feynman expressed (a ) quantity as ‘ by the god given damnation to all physicists ‘. But the fine structure constant is not

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 08 May 2012, at 20:09, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 07.05.2012 21:49 meekerdb said the following: On 5/7/2012 12:09 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 07.05.2012 19:52 John Clark said the following: On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru wrote: To me the logic of

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 08 May 2012, at 20:17, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 07.05.2012 22:21 Craig Weinberg said the following: On May 7, 3:37 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: ... Sure science grew out of Christianity, out of the decay and fragmentation of Christianity. When Christianity was strong and

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 08 May 2012, at 21:41, meekerdb wrote: On 5/8/2012 12:04 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On May 8, 2:17 pm, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: On 07.05.2012 22:21 Craig Weinberg said the following: On May 7, 3:37 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: ... Sure science grew out of

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2012-05-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 08 May 2012, at 21:46, John Mikes wrote: Ricardo: good text! I may add to it: Who created Nothing? - of course: Nobody. (The ancient joke of Odysseus towards Polyphemos: 'Nobody' has hurt me). Just one thing: if it contains (includes) EMPTY SPACE, it includes space, it is not nothing.

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2012-05-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 May 2012, at 02:25, Pierz wrote: There is an interesting point here, although probably not what you intended. What you say is true, you cannot trace it all the way back to absolute nothing, because there is no reverse physical process that transforms something into nothing (at

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2012-05-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 May 2012, at 02:36, Pierz wrote: The problem is that physicists have not yet succeed in marrying QM and GR, which is needed to get a quantum theory of space-time. You can bet on strings or on loop gravity though, or on the Dewitt- Wheeler equation, which, actually make physical

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2012-05-09 Thread R AM
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 2:25 AM, Pierz pier...@gmail.com wrote: You must have misread me. I am anything but sure nothing must have come before. Yes, probably I did. Indeed, my whole point is that something from nothing - genuine nothing - is a nonsense. You can't bridge the hgap between

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2012-05-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 May 2012, at 12:36, R AM wrote: On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 2:25 AM, Pierz pier...@gmail.com wrote: You must have misread me. I am anything but sure nothing must have come before. Yes, probably I did. Indeed, my whole point is that something from nothing - genuine nothing - is a

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2012-05-09 Thread R AM
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: The empty set is the absence of elements (nothing) in that set. It is the set { }. The empty set is not nothing. For example, the set is { { } } is not empty. It contains as element the empty set. Just to be precise.

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread Craig Weinberg
On May 9, 5:30 am, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net  On 5/8/2012 4:24 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 5:52 AM, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com jami...@gmail.com wrote:  Stathis: what's your definition? - JM

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2012-05-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 May 2012, at 13:19, R AM wrote: On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: The empty set is the absence of elements (nothing) in that set. It is the set { }. The empty set is not nothing. For example, the set is { { } } is not empty. It contains as

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2012-05-09 Thread R AM
PM, Bruno Marchal Yes. Nothing, in set theory, would be more like an empty *collection* of sets, or an empty universe (a model of set theory), except that in first order logic we forbid empty models (so that AxP(x) - ExP(x) remains valid, to simplify life (proofs)). nothing could also be

Re: [foar] A boost for quantum reality

2012-05-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Richard, It seems to me, as the author vaguely admit implicitly in the conclusion that this is just a very nice argument for Everett many- worlds. It is weird that they don't make it explicit. I read it very quickly, though. It looks very nice, but philosophically it oscillates between

Matter and Form: when they are paradoxical.

2012-05-09 Thread socra...@bezeqint.net
Matter and Form: when they are paradoxical. =. Wood is itself a matter. Wood is itself a form, a geometrical form. A cupboard made of wood is a real whole of form and matter. Geometrical form and matter are 'grown together' in it. No form exist without matter. Nor can there be matter

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread meekerdb
On 5/9/2012 2:30 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net On 5/8/2012 4:24 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 5:52 AM, John Mikesjami...@gmail.com mailto:jami...@gmail.com wrote: Stathis: what's your

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2012-05-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 May 2012, at 17:09, R AM wrote: PM, Bruno Marchal Yes. Nothing, in set theory, would be more like an empty *collection* of sets, or an empty universe (a model of set theory), except that in first order logic we forbid empty models (so that AxP(x) - ExP(x) remains valid, to

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread meekerdb
On 5/9/2012 11:43 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net On 5/9/2012 2:30 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net On 5/8/2012 4:24 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-09 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 09.05.2012 08:47 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 08 May 2012, at 21:41, meekerdb wrote: On 5/8/2012 12:04 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On May 8, 2:17 pm, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: On 07.05.2012 22:21 Craig Weinberg said the following: On May 7, 3:37 pm,

Re: The Brain Minds Whether We Believe in Free Will or Not

2012-05-09 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 08.05.2012 21:48 meekerdb said the following: On 5/8/2012 11:09 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... For the development of science, it is necessary to have a believe that equations discovered by a human mind could be used for the whole history of Universe. At that time, this belief came from

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2012-05-09 Thread John Mikes
Ricardo: I hate to become a nothingologist, but if you REMOVE things to make NOTHING you still have the remnanat (empty space, hole, potential of 'it' having been there or whatever) from WHERE you removed it. IMO in Nothing there is not even a where identified. Forgive me the 'light' reply,

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2012-05-09 Thread R AM
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 8:23 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 09 May 2012, at 17:09, R AM wrote: nothing could also be obtained by removing the curly brackets from the empty set {}. N... Some bit of blank remains. If it was written on hemp, you could smoke it. That's not

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread meekerdb
On 5/9/2012 12:09 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net On 5/9/2012 11:43 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net On 5/9/2012 2:30 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:

Re: Why is there something rather than nothing?

2012-05-09 Thread R AM
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 9:26 PM, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: Ricardo: I hate to become a nothingologist, but if you REMOVE things to make NOTHING you still have the remnanat (empty space, hole, potential of 'it' having been there or whatever) from WHERE you removed it. IMO in Nothing

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread R AM
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.comwrote: My definition: free will is when you're not sure you're going to do something until you've done it. My own take on free will is that it is mostly a social construct, so that we can be blamed (and blame others)

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread meekerdb
On 5/9/2012 1:04 PM, R AM wrote: On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com mailto:stath...@gmail.com wrote: My definition: free will is when you're not sure you're going to do something until you've done it. My own take on free will is that it is mostly

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread meekerdb
On 5/9/2012 1:11 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net On 5/9/2012 12:09 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net On 5/9/2012 11:43 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 5/9/2012 1:11 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 5/9/2012 12:09 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 5/9/2012 11:43 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/5/9 meekerdb

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/5/9 Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com 2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 5/9/2012 1:11 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 5/9/2012 12:09 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 5/9/2012 11:43 AM,

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread meekerdb
On 5/9/2012 2:15 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Maybe we need to number these: (1)...an external agent directly injected chemicals or electrical signals into your brain thereby causing a choice actually made by the external agent. To which you answered Yes (that's unfree).

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread meekerdb
On 5/9/2012 2:19 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: So: 1- If someone is threatening me via my senses (via a weapons he holds, on some forces he acts upon me... I still have free will, I've still the ability to choose, some choices are more dangerous, I'm coerced to choose what the agressor wants,

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 5/9/2012 2:15 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Maybe we need to number these: (1)...an external agent directly injected chemicals or electrical signals into your brain thereby causing a choice actually made by the external agent. To which you

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 5/9/2012 2:19 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: So: 1- If someone is threatening me via my senses (via a weapons he holds, on some forces he acts upon me... I still have free will, I've still the ability to choose, some choices are more dangerous, I'm

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread meekerdb
On 5/9/2012 3:34 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/5/9 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net On 5/9/2012 2:19 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: So: 1- If someone is threatening me via my senses (via a weapons he holds, on some forces he acts upon

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 10:22 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: My definition: free will is when you're not sure you're going to do something until you've done it. So if carefully weigh my options and decide on one it's not free will?  I'd say free will is making any choice that is

Re: Free will in MWI

2012-05-09 Thread meekerdb
On 5/9/2012 4:40 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 10:22 AM, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: My definition: free will is when you're not sure you're going to do something until you've done it. So if carefully weigh my options and decide on one it's not free will?