Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:00 PM 'Cosmin Visan' t < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > *> What does a computer "see" in the duck-rabbit image ?* > Nothing, because ducks and rabbits don't exist, and neither do computers or images. But don't change the subject, work up your courage and

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

What does a computer "see" in the duck-rabbit image ? On Monday, 29 April 2019 18:55:40 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 3:33 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > > *there is nothing more to talk about.* > > > I have lots more to talk about but you

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 3:33 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > *there is nothing more to talk about.* I have lots more to talk about but you don't because you have no counter argument to my criticisms except for a canned "*fill-in-the-blank* does not exist" and

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 26 Apr 2019, at 02:38, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:45 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > >> On 23 Apr 2019, at 01:24, Jason Resch > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:16 AM Bruno Marchal >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 26 Apr 2019, at 02:50, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:57 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > >> On 23 Apr 2019, at 03:32, Jason Resch > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 7:51 PM 'Brent Meeker' via

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

In case you still don't understand, let me give you another helping hand: If you give to a computer the duck-rabbit image, what it will "see" ? On Sunday, 28 April 2019 20:29:51 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > > I did and I still don't see your point. Yes computers can make observation > -- You

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Then there is nothing more to talk about. You cannot talk with someone that lacks the basic understandings in a field. Is like talking to a blind person about how to jump over obstacles without touching them, and he will continue to repeat that you need to touch them, otherwise how would you

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Sunday, April 28, 2019 at 3:50:17 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/28/2019 11:09 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: > > Ok, so how does it appear ? > > > Like this (you're getting kind of dense). > > > > > If you show that picture to a rock, does the rock see red ? > > > I

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Sunday, 28 April 2019 23:50:17 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/28/2019 11:09 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: > > Ok, so how does it appear ? > > > Like this (you're getting kind of dense). > You don't really understand the question, do you ? > > If you show that picture to a

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

I had the impression that we are discussing about the nature of reality here, not about how to pay bills. On Sunday, 28 April 2019 22:22:11 UTC+3, spudb...@aol.com wrote: > > Brain is what neurosurgeons get paid to work on and what neuroscientists > study. It may all be maya, an illusion, but

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/28/2019 11:09 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: Ok, so how does it appear ? Like this (you're getting kind of dense). If you show that picture to a rock, does the rock see red ? I tried it and the rock had no response, so I conclude it doesn't see read or hear

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/28/2019 8:33 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Indexical Digital Mechanism, or simply Mechanism, is the idea that we can survive with an artificial brain. It is the idea that my consciousness, or my first-person experience, is invariant for some functional digital substitution of my brain/body

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Sent: Sun, Apr 28, 2019 11:47 am Subject: Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems "Brain" doesn't exist. "Brain" is just an idea in consciousness. Therefore, your entire theory is false."Brain" is just a picture that you see in your consciousness, no different than th

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Hitler reacts to idealism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0FOMSA2ZrU -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Ok, so how does it appear ? If you show that picture to a rock, does the rock see red ? On Sunday, 28 April 2019 20:52:41 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > On 4/28/2019 12:00 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: > > Really ?? See ? That's what a superficial way of thinking does: it makes > you

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/28/2019 12:00 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: Really ?? See ? That's what a superficial way of thinking does: it makes you think that everything is simple in life and you figure it out everything. Let me give you a hint: And how does that red appears ? Like this: Never

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 7:05 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> So you have free will if you feel free, and you feel free if you have >> free will. And round and round we go! The only definition I know of "free >> will" that is not circular gibberish is the inability

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

"Brain" doesn't exist. "Brain" is just an idea in consciousness. Therefore, your entire theory is false. "Brain" is just a picture that you see in your consciousness, no different than the picture "unicorn". Believing in "brain" only because you see it, is like believing in "unicorn" only

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 22 Apr 2019, at 15:38, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 9:33 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > > The question is about the first person experience, > > I don't want to know what the question is about, I want to know precisely > what the question is.

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> > I've asked you this several times before but received no answer, I > ask again, HOW DO YOU KNOW HUMANS ARE CONSCIOUS AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT > COMPUTER'S ARE NOT? > Because consciousnesses have the property of intelligence, while computers don't exist. Is just an idea invented by

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

uters don't construct anything. > > > *Learning is a property of consciousness * >> > > You already said that, and I say whatever learning is it's irrelevant to > this discussion because whatever it is COMPUTERS CAN LEARN TOO; that wasn't > true just a few years ago but it is

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Really ?? See ? That's what a superficial way of thinking does: it makes you think that everything is simple in life and you figure it out everything. Let me give you a hint: And how does that red appears ? On Saturday, 27 April 2019 23:12:08 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > > When I shine some 700nm

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/27/2019 12:35 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: On Friday, 26 April 2019 21:48:33 UTC+3, Brent wrote: I want to because I am a consciousness with free will. But why do you want this rather than that??? Do the "wants" of your free will just spring up at

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

elevant to this discussion because whatever it is COMPUTERS CAN LEARN TOO; that wasn't true just a few years ago but it is now, and in some cases they can learn better and much faster than humans, and it's only a matter of time before it's true in all cases. > *Since computers are determini

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Saturday, 27 April 2019 01:38:08 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 10:36 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > >> >> *> I am a consciousness with free will. * >> > > Tell me what in hell "free will" is supposed to mean and I'll tell you if > I

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Friday, 26 April 2019 21:48:33 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > > I want to because I am a consciousness with free will. > > > But why do you want this rather than that??? Do the "wants" of your free > will just spring up at random??? Are they unrelated to your situation, > perception, the

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Well, then I invite Bruno to go and claim his Nobel prize, because this is a knowledge that definitely worths a Nobel prize. On Friday, 26 April 2019 21:07:22 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > Or people that know things you don't.?? Which is sad since you'll not > learn anything. > > Brent > -- You

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 10:36 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > *> I am a consciousness with free will. * > Tell me what in hell "free will" is supposed to mean and I'll tell you if I agree with you or not. *>>> computers don't get to any answers, they just

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Friday, April 26, 2019 at 9:04:46 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > > On Friday, April 26, 2019, > wrote: > >> >> >> On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 7:29:08 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 2:48 AM Philip Thrift >>> wrote: >>> On Monday, April 22, 2019

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/26/2019 7:36 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: On Friday, 26 April 2019 01:52:19 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 1:49 PM 'Cosmin Visan'?? > wrote: >> it would be perfectly correct to say I scratched my nose because I wanted

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Or people that know things you don't.?? Which is sad since you'll not learn anything. Brent On 4/26/2019 3:51 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: Yeah, ok, you seem to know everything. Probably you are God or something. I cannot take seriously people that know everything. On

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Friday, 26 April 2019 01:52:19 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 1:49 PM 'Cosmin Visan' < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > >> > >> it would be perfectly correct to say I scratched my nose because I >>> wanted to, but it would be equally correct to say the nerves

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Friday, April 26, 2019, wrote: > > > On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 7:29:08 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 2:48 AM Philip Thrift wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 6:24:37 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > The above reminded me of this quote

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Consciousness exists. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 6:19 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > *Sorry, if I want to read fairy-tales I read Harry Potter. AI is a rather > boring fairy-tale.* > You've written quite a few posts in the last few days but they can all be sum

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Yeah, ok, you seem to know everything. Probably you are God or something. I cannot take seriously people that know everything. On Friday, 26 April 2019 13:00:52 UTC+3, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 22 Apr 2019, at 22:57, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote:

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 25 Apr 2019, at 08:18, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 2:42 pm, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> > wrote: > But it happens all the time. How do you think you move your body if not by > top-down influence in levels

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 24 Apr 2019, at 15:57, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > "Matter" doesn't exist. "Matter" is an idea in consciousness. That’s better. Now, consciousness is not an idea in arithmetic, but it is a truth for all numbers having the right amount of self-reference ability.

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 24 Apr 2019, at 15:08, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > This is not the reason why AI is not conscious. The reason is that AI doesn't > even exist, is just an idea in consciousness. Consciousness which of course > is not made out of atoms. We are not

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 24 Apr 2019, at 09:54, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > So ultimately they are not "artificial", but natural, grown through > biological processes, not assembled in a factory. Then they are natural and > are not made of atoms, but are made by invisible natural processes

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

You're just making a mess of concepts gathered from everywhere. A is like B, $@#$@ is like 423423, Hampty-Dampty is like Harry Potter. Sorry, there can be no dialogue with you. On Friday, 26 April 2019 12:30:13 UTC+3, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > The “singularity” belongs to the past, it is just

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 23 Apr 2019, at 03:24, Jason Resch wrote: > > Perhaps not, but this video of it is quite fascinating: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEejivHRIbE > > Quite fascinating. Biology has always been my main source of inspiration for

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Sorry, if I want to read fairy-tales I read Harry Potter. AI is a rather boring fairy-tale. On Friday, 26 April 2019 12:30:13 UTC+3, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > If mechanism is true, a reasoning can show that even your laptop can be > said conscious, even maximally conscious,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 22 Apr 2019, at 23:34, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, 23 April 2019 00:20:49 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > Actually it will work just like the car you replicated. So why won't the > replicated driver work just like the driver? > > No, it won't. Because you

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 22 Apr 2019, at 22:57, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > Nobody knows how an embryo develops. That is entirely solved by the second recursion theorem of Kleene. That has been found by many people independently. Descartes did search this all his life, and at his time,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 22 Apr 2019, at 21:51, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > This is just Dualism which says there is (material) Matter and there is > (immaterial) Mind, and Mind operates with brains, not hearts. > > If you were a true consciousness-only ontologist, then you would say a brain > could be

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 22 Apr 2019, at 21:13, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > A brain is not a heart. There are special relations in the brain through > which consciousness can act upon the world. You cannot copy those relations, > since they are not material. The addition function is

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 22 Apr 2019, at 10:28, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > Only if you never did some serious thinking you can consider AI can be > conscious. Is not at all the same thing like other similar statements across > history like "objects heavier

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 22 Apr 2019, at 00:10, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > Conscious AI = the fairy-tale of 21st century. If mechanism is true, a reasoning can show that even your laptop can be said conscious, even maximally conscious, before you add applications on it. It

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 7:29:08 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 2:48 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > >> >> >> On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 6:24:37 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>> >>> The above reminded me of this quote from Alan Turing: >>> >>> Personally I think that

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:57 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 23 Apr 2019, at 03:32, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 7:51 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On 4/22/2019 4:24 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:45 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 23 Apr 2019, at 01:24, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:16 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 5 Nov 2018, at 02:56, Martin Abramson >> wrote: >> >> Consciousness is a program. >> >> >> Consciousness might be

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 2:48 AM Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 6:24:37 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >> >> >>> The above reminded me of this quote from Alan Turing: >> >> Personally I think that spirit is really eternally connected with matter >> but certainly not always by the

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 1:49 PM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> it would be perfectly correct to say I scratched my nose because I >> wanted to, but it would be equally correct to say the nerves in my nose >> triggered the nerves in my hand to move. >> > > > >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/25/2019 9:30 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Can you derive today a dark-matter theory from The Standard Model + General Relativity? No, so what ? I just said theories change to explain new datas or they propose test that gives rise to new results. If

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 3:55:50 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/25/2019 7:50 AM, cloud...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 8:34:30 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le??jeu. 25 avr. 2019 15:23, a ??crit??: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, April 25,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/25/2019 7:50 AM, cloudver...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 8:34:30 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Le??jeu. 25 avr. 2019 15:23, > a ??crit??: On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 1:18:44 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On Thu, 25 Apr 2019

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 11:30:57 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le jeu. 25 avr. 2019 à 17:44, > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 10:21:04 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Le jeu. 25 avr. 2019 à 16:50, a écrit : >>> On Thursday,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

You forgot the point before that where a perception triggered a memory and the signal. Brent On 4/25/2019 3:38 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: You forgot the last point where consciousness initiate the signal. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/25/2019 12:00 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: Also airplanes can fly better than birds. Does that mean that airplanes are alive ? No, but it means flying is a physical process, not an quale of birds. Nobody moves the goalpost of intelligence anywhere. Intelligence is

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/24/2019 11:33 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: Exactly. Those experiments are not valid. The "brain" does not exist. But I exist. I think you are making a category confusion. You equate by default brain with consciousness, and because brain doesn't exist, you conclude that

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

n of intelligence, but then 20 years ago a > computer beat the best human player and overnight Chess suddenly had > nothing to do with intelligence. So they then pinned their hopes on a > vastly more complex game, GO. > As late as 2008 > Milton N. Bradley > said: > We

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

t I'm going to do until I do it, just as a computer doesn't know what the answer to a calculation will be until it's finished making the calculation. *> To think that an AI has "brain" is to have no understanding whatsoever > of computer science and to believe that magic happens there.* >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

That's how existence is: miraculous. And we have evidence for it: just get out of the chair and move around the room and there's your evidence. On Thursday, 25 April 2019 15:27:17 UTC+3, stathisp wrote: > > > > On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 8:38 pm, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Le jeu. 25 avr. 2019 à 17:44, a écrit : > > > On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 10:21:04 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le jeu. 25 avr. 2019 à 16:50, a écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 8:34:30 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Le jeu. 25 avr.

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 10:21:04 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le jeu. 25 avr. 2019 à 16:50, > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 8:34:30 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Le jeu. 25 avr. 2019 à 15:23, a écrit : >>> On Thursday,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Le jeu. 25 avr. 2019 à 16:50, a écrit : > > > On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 8:34:30 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le jeu. 25 avr. 2019 à 15:23, a écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 1:18:44 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 8:34:30 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le jeu. 25 avr. 2019 à 15:23, > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 1:18:44 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 2:42 pm, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Le jeu. 25 avr. 2019 à 15:23, a écrit : > > > On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 1:18:44 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 2:42 pm, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >>> But it happens all the time. How do you think you move

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 1:18:44 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: > > > > On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 2:42 pm, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > >> But it happens all the time. How do you think you move your body if not >> by top-down influence in levels

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 8:38 pm, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > You forgot the last point where consciousness initiate the signal. That would mean, at some point in this causal chain, something miraculous happening, like a bone moving without any

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

You forgot the last point where consciousness initiate the signal. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 16:38, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > You are randomly extrapolating. I think this is called "strawman logical > error". Things are not random. There are reasons for why consciousness only > exercises its powers in certain

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

will" conveys > nothing, it's just a sound made with the mouth. > I don't know. I feel free. Don't you ? > > >>The "I" in AI stands for intelligence not consciousness, do you believe >>> a AI can be intelligent? And by "intelligent" I mean w

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

One interpretation might be that consciousness sends its influence from the future to the past. On Thursday, 25 April 2019 09:37:53 UTC+3, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > So you are saying that we are fooled when doing experiments showing > movement is seen before in brain motor function before the

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

You are randomly extrapolating. I think this is called "strawman logical error". Things are not random. There are reasons for why consciousness only exercises its powers in certain conditions. Evolution confined those powers to own body alone, though in some cases indeed you get connections

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

So you are saying that we are fooled when doing experiments showing movement is seen before in brain motor function before the subject being aware of it... and assert that is always the consciousness that initiates movement despite experiments showing the contrary.. so we can't test anything of

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Exactly. Those experiments are not valid. The "brain" does not exist. But I exist. I think you are making a category confusion. You equate by default brain with consciousness, and because brain doesn't exist, you conclude that consciousness doesn't exist. You are loosing yourself in abstract

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 2:42 pm, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > But it happens all the time. How do you think you move your body if not by > top-down influence in levels from consciousness ? > At the molecular level, if this were true, we would see

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Are you aware of the Grey Walter experiments that imply your brain thinks of moving before your consciouness.?? Of course I know the brain and Grey Walter and his experiment don't existand neither do you. Brent On 4/24/2019 9:42 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: But it happens

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

But it happens all the time. How do you think you move your body if not by top-down influence in levels from consciousness ? On Wednesday, 24 April 2019 20:06:07 UTC+3, stathisp wrote: > > > Why has no-one ever observed the components of the brain breaking physical > laws? It should happen all

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

It's simple. You say: "Santa Claus has legs and arms like humans, therefore Santa Claus must exists." On Wednesday, 24 April 2019 18:50:03 UTC+3, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > Could you share your *serious* thinking on our santa claus belief to us > unserious people ? > > -- You received this

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/24/2019 4:44 AM, smitra wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNiiLfB8s0s A thoroughly dishonest presentation.?? Pross selective misrepresents quotes from people who are all arguing for the physical basis of life.?? He quotes Morowitz on the impossibility of randomly realizing an

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

;free will", it's so bad it's not even wrong. To be wrong an idea must first convey a thought, an erroneous thought but a thought nevertheless, but like a burp "free will" conveys nothing, it's just a sound made with the mouth. >>The "I" in AI stands for intelligen

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 at 11:16 pm, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > I don't see why it would matter. If you obtain consciousness, that > consciousness will have free will, so will take over the whatever > subcomponents that you might use, so those

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

; everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >> > *This is not the reason why AI is not conscious.* >>> >> >> The "I" in AI stands for intelligence not consciousness, do you believe a >> AI can be intelligent? And by "intelligent" I mean whatever you meant &g

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Wednesday, 24 April 2019 16:46:33 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 9:08 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > > *This is not the reason why AI is not conscious.* >> > > The "I" in AI stands for

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 9:08 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > *This is not the reason why AI is not conscious.* > The "I" in AI stands for intelligence not consciousness, do you believe a AI can be intelligent? And by "intelligent"

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

I don't see why it would matter. If you obtain consciousness, that consciousness will have free will, so will take over the whatever subcomponents that you might use, so those subcomponents will stop obeying the "physical laws" that we know from simple systems. On Wednesday, 24 April 2019

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

This is not the reason why AI is not conscious. The reason is that AI doesn't even exist, is just an idea in consciousness. Consciousness which of course is not made out of atoms. We are not made out of atoms. "Atoms" are just ideas in consciousness. On Wednesday, 24 April 2019 15:5

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

swer is the way atoms are arranged, and it doesn't make any difference if the atoms are of carbon or silicon if the process is the same. Saying an AI can't be conscious because its brain is dry and hard and not wet and squishy is as silly as saying another human can't be conscious if his skin colo

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 at 6:28 pm, 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > *Only if you never did some serious thinking you can consider AI can be > conscious. * > What sort of serious thinking did you engage in that enabled you to conclude any of your f

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNiiLfB8s0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkGb12xBKlM On 24-04-2019 09:54, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: So ultimately they are not "artificial", but natural, grown through biological processes, not assembled in a factory. Then they are natural and

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 4:09:37 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: > > I think that if we want to have any shot at understanding reality we need > to be serious in our thinking. "Assembled in factories" sounds like you > just take atom by atom and put them together, which clearly is not

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 at 7:14 pm, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > There might be some room for wiggling, but ultimately red must be red. > > On Wednesday, 24 April 2019 11:47:52 UTC+3, stathisp wrote: >> >> >> A piece of paper wouldn’t work as a

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

There might be some room for wiggling, but ultimately red must be red. On Wednesday, 24 April 2019 11:47:52 UTC+3, stathisp wrote: > > > A piece of paper wouldn’t work as a computer screen replacement. Replacing > an LCD screen for an LED screen would work; replacing a spinning hard drive >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

I think that if we want to have any shot at understanding reality we need to be serious in our thinking. "Assembled in factories" sounds like you just take atom by atom and put them together, which clearly is not what happens. People start with already living cells and just modify them a

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 at 4:46 pm, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > This is like saying: If you replace part of the computer screen with > drawings made on a piece of paper, what does this indicate ? Well... it > indicates that on the part replaced with

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

They ("synthetic neurons") are assembled in laboratories/factories. New neuron-like cells allow investigation into synthesis of vital cellular components https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180122164702.htm - pt On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 2:54:01 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

So ultimately they are not "artificial", but natural, grown through biological processes, not assembled in a factory. Then they are natural and are not made of atoms, but are made by invisible natural processes that are also responsible for the workings of consciousness. I think this fact must

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