Blood Meridian

2009-12-05 Thread Kelly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_Meridian Best quote from the best gothic western ever: The truth about the world, he said, is that anything is possible. Had you not seen it all from birth and thereby bled it of its strangeness it would appear to you for what it is, a hat trick in a medicine

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-06-02 Thread Kelly Harmon
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: BUT, if there is significant suffering likely in the worlds where I lose, I might very well focus making a choice that will minimize that suffering. In which case I will generally not base much of my decision on the

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-29 Thread Kelly Harmon
-minimizing bet in this branch, I know that in a closely related branch I will make the risky gain-maximizing bet and say to hell with the Kellys in the losing worlds. So I know that even if I make the safe bet, there's another Kelly two worlds over making the risky bet, which will result in a Kelly

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-28 Thread Kelly Harmon
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Since you told me that you accept comp, after all, and do no more oppose it to your view, I think we agree, at least on many things. Indeed you agree with the hypothesis, and your philosophy appears to be a consequence

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-27 Thread Kelly Harmon
On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Actually I still have no clue of what you mean by information. Well, I don't think I can say it much better than I did before: In my view, there are ungrounded abstract symbols that acquire meaning via constraints

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-24 Thread Kelly Harmon
exists platonically even if the Turing machine program is never run. And therefore the consciousness that goes with those states also exists platonically, even if the Turing machine program is never run. OK. So, now, Kelly, just to understand what you mean by your theory, I have to ask you

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-23 Thread Kelly Harmon
Okay, below are three passages that I think give a good sense of what I mean by information when I say that consciousness is information. The first is from David Chalmers' Facing up to the Problem of Consciousness. The second is from the SEP article on Semantic Conceptions of Information, and

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-23 Thread Kelly Harmon
come from? Assuming platonism, I can explain why I don't see talking heads: because every possible Kelly is realized, and that includes a Kelly who doesn't observe disembodied talking heads and who doesn't know anyone who has ever seen such a head. So given that my observations aren't in conflict

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-23 Thread Kelly
On May 23, 12:54 pm, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: Either of these ideas is definite enough that they could actually be implemented (in contrast to many philosophical ideas about consciousness). Once you had implemented the ideas, how would you then know whether consciousness

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-19 Thread Kelly Harmon
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:22 PM, George Levy gl...@quantics.net wrote: Kelly Harmon wrote: What if you used a lookup table for only a single neuron in a computer simulation of a brain? Hi Kelly Zombie arguments involving look up tables are faulty because look up tables are not closed

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-19 Thread Kelly Harmon
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 12:30 AM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: On the contrary, I think it does.  First, I think Chalmers idea that vitalists recognized that all that needed explaining was structure and function is revisionist history.  They were looking for the animating

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-19 Thread Kelly Harmon
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 6:36 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I agree with your critic of consciousness = information. This is not even wrong, Ouch! Et tu, Bruno??? and Kelly should define what he means by information so that we could see what he really means. Okay, okay! I

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-17 Thread Kelly Harmon
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 2:03 AM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: Do you suppose that something could behave just as humans do yet not be conscious, i.e. could there be a philosophical zombie? I think that somewhere there would have to be a conscious experience associated with the

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-17 Thread Kelly Harmon
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Alberto G.Corona agocor...@gmail.com wrote: Therefore I think that I answer your question: it´s not only information; It´s about a certain kind of information and their own processor. The exact nature of this processor that permits qualia is not known; that’s

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-17 Thread Kelly Harmon
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 8:07 AM, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: A fitting computer simulation would include ALL aspects involved - call it mind AND body, 'physically' observable 'activity' and 'consciousness as cause' -- but alas, no such thing so far. Our embryonic machine with its

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-17 Thread Kelly Harmon
On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 12:32 AM, Jesse Mazer laserma...@hotmail.com wrote: I don't have a problem with the idea that a giant lookup table is just a sort of zombie, since after all the way you'd create a lookup table for a given algorithmic mind would be to run a huge series of actual

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-17 Thread Kelly Harmon
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: Generally I don't think that what we experience is necessarily caused by physical systems.  I think that sometimes physical systems assume configurations that shadow, or represent, our conscious experience. But they

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-16 Thread Kelly Harmon
I think your discussing the functional aspects of consciousness. AKA, the easy problems of consciousness. The question of how human behavior is produced. My question was what is the source of phenomenal consciousness. What is the absolute minimum requirement which must be met in order for

Re: No MWI

2009-05-14 Thread Kelly Harmon
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Colin Hales c.ha...@pgrad.unimelb.edu.au wrote: My ability to mentally manipulate mathematics therefore makes me a powerful lord of reality and puts me in a position of great authority and clarity. Aren't people who are good at math already pretty much in

Re: Artificial Hippocampus

2009-05-07 Thread Kelly Harmon
Another good one: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8012496.stm --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-05-02 Thread Kelly
On Apr 29, 2:26 am, russell standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: What extra information do you have in mind? I'd gladly update my priors with anything I can lay my hands on. So changes to neural structure and the concentrations of various chemicals within neurons and around neural synapses

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-28 Thread Kelly
On Apr 27, 12:23 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: So you have indeed the necessity to abandon comp to maintain your form of immaterialist platonism, but then you lose the tool for questioning nature. It almost look like choosing a theory because it does not even address the

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-28 Thread Kelly
On Apr 27, 3:08 am, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: Your position as you have described it sounds a lot like ASSA only without taking measure into consideration. I am curious if you believe there is any merit to counting OMs or not. Meaning, if I have two computers and set them up

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-28 Thread Kelly
On Apr 27, 1:42 pm, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: Are you thinking of something like a linked list in which each state, in it's inherent information, has a pointer to a previous (or future) state. And the existence of this link constitutes the feeling of flow? H. As a

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-27 Thread Kelly
On Apr 27, 2:27 am, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: An untestable theory. But that's OK since if it's true it's also useless. Ha! True, true. But it being true AND useless would have a certain aesthetic/poetic appeal. Which makes me even more inclined to think that this is the

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-26 Thread Kelly
On Apr 26, 1:08 am, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: These are edges in time, i.e. a future boundary and a past boundary. If these two boundaries are different then we are not longer talking about a state, we're talking about an interval, furthermore an interval that has duration

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-26 Thread Kelly
On Apr 26, 2:01 pm, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: I am not sure that the measure problem can be so easily abandoned/ignored. Assuming every Observer Moment had has an equal measure, then the random/white-noise filled OMs should vastly outnumber the ordered and sensible OMs. The

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-26 Thread Kelly
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: In fact I used that same argument with Russell Standish when he said that ants aren't conscious because if they were then we should expect to be experiencing life as ants and not humans. Did you win or lose that

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-26 Thread Kelly
On Apr 26, 12:47 pm, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: No, I think you're missing my point. Consider your analogy of fitting together images to make a complete picture. You present this as a spatial representation of the sequential flow of consciousness. Now suppose your spatial

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-26 Thread Kelly
On Apr 26, 11:40 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: The question is; what are their relative probability measure? What can I expect. Any expectations you have are unfounded. The problem of induction applies. Any probabilities arrived at empirically are suspect, they will continue

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-25 Thread Kelly
. These people who advocate extreme platonism are crazy, because it doesn't match what I observe. But, there will also be a version of you who never has a normal experience again. For eternity you will go from strange experience to strange experience. And this version will say, ah, ya, Kelly was right about

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-25 Thread Kelly
On Apr 24, 3:14 am, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: Kelly, Your arguments are compelling and logical, you have put a lot of doubt in my mind about computationalism. Excellent! It sounds like you are following the same path as I did on all of this. So it makes sense to start

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-25 Thread Kelly
On Apr 24, 11:39 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: At any given instant that I'm awake, I'm conscious of SOMETHING. To predict something, the difficulty is to relate that consciousness to its computational histories. Physics is given by a measure of probability on those comp

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-22 Thread Kelly
On Apr 21, 11:31 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: We could say that a state A access to a state B if there is a universal machine (a universal number relation) transforming A into B. This works at the ontological level, or for the third person point of view. But if A is a

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-22 Thread Kelly
On Apr 21, 2:33 pm, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: These states can belong to more than one sequence of conscious experience. But the question is whether the order of the states in the computation is always the same as their order in any sequence of conscious experience in which

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-20 Thread Kelly
On Apr 20, 2:04 am, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote: The main difficulty I see is that it fails to explain the sequential aspect of consciousness. If consciousness is identified with information then it is atemporal. Time is just the dimension of experience. But experience is

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-20 Thread Kelly
On Apr 20, 8:14 am, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: The drawback is that any physical system (which could be mapped onto any information or any computation) would be conscious. This is only a drawback if you believe, I guess as a matter of faith, that it is false. Right, the

Re: Consciousness is information?

2009-04-20 Thread Kelly
On Apr 20, 3:27 am, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: If I sent you an arbitrary binary string, it would have no meaning unless you either knew in advance how to interpret it or how it was produced.  Either interpretation or understanding of how it was produced can be described with

Consciousness is information?

2009-04-19 Thread Kelly
What is the advantage of assigning consciousness to computational processes (e.g. UDA), as opposed to just assigning it to the information that is produced by computational processes? For example, to take Maudlin's Computation and Consciousness paper, if you just say that the consciousness is

Re: Altered states of consciousness

2009-03-30 Thread Kelly
 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Hi Kelly, and others, Well, thanks for your report. Did you smoke the extract? It usually last for 4 minutes. It is amazing it did last so long with you, I know only one case of an experience lasting 20 minutes. I am happy you found your experience

Re: Altered states of consciousness

2009-03-28 Thread Kelly
I tried Salvia for the first time yesterday. Very similar to dreaming, but more intense, with a lot more sounds. At first I thought, Nothing's happening. Then I thought, I seem to be about to slide sidewise...I need to stop. Then, I was sitting somewhere...in a tilled field I think, and I