On 4 February 2015 at 12:18, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
What could such a test even look like?
Determining whether the brain or CPU of the supposedly conscious entity was
performing computations or processing information in a manner consistent
with those processes that
On 4 February 2015 at 12:59, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
As I understand it, being an epiphenomenon means one can give a causal
account of the phenomenon without mentioning it. But the epiphenomenon
necessarily accompanies the phenomenon. In the case of consciousness it's
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:10 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
On 4 February 2015 at 12:18, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
What could such a test even look like?
Determining whether the brain or CPU of the supposedly conscious entity
was
performing
On 2/3/2015 2:21 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 2/3/2015 11:13 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
I agree with John. If consciousness had no third-person observable effects,
it
would be an
On 2/3/2015 6:43 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:07 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
Mutations happen all the time and nearly all of them are harmful. In
most animals If a mutation happens that
renders it blind that will be a
On 2/3/2015 7:20 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
I'm arguing that might have been necessary for for the evolution of
intelligence
starting from say fish. But that doesn't entail that is
On 04-Feb-2015, at 12:01 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 03 Feb 2015, at 06:54, Samiya Illias wrote:
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 10:56 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 02 Feb 2015, at 06:37, Samiya Illias wrote:
On 02-Feb-2015, at 6:12 am, LizR
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 7:59 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 2/3/2015 2:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree with John. If
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
On 4 February 2015 at 12:59, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
As I understand it, being an epiphenomenon means one can give a causal
account of the phenomenon without mentioning it. But the epiphenomenon
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:07 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
Mutations happen all the time and nearly all of them are harmful. In
most animals If a mutation happens that renders it blind that will be a
severe handicap and the animal will not live long enough to pass that
mutated gene
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
I'm arguing that might have been necessary for for the evolution of
intelligence starting from say fish. But that doesn't entail that is
necessary for any intelligent system.
And maybe men need consciousness to behave
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 7:52 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 2/3/2015 2:21 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 2/3/2015 11:13 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
I agree with John. If consciousness had no third-person observable
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
Maybe because base 12 is more sensible than base 10? The Babylonians, who
had something to do with our numeral system, worked in base 60. Which is
why we have 360 degrees in a circle, etc.
I think if we used base 8 computers
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
We don't need consciousness to follow the plan A. But we need it to be
aware of the plan B, and retrieve it quickly in case of urgence.
OK, so consciousness does effect behavior and the Turing Test works.
Consciousness
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 10:53 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
But according to your theory all that junk DNA should be eliminated. It
has no behavioral effect and so evolution can't see it as someone is fond
of writing.
But the unit that Evolution works on is not the species or
On 2/3/2015 2:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
mailto:stath...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com
mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree with John. If
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
.
If we build computers that discuss and question their own
consciousness and qualia I'd consider that proof enough that they are.
But is that the standard of intelligence? JKC argues
intelligence=consciousness. What
On 2/3/2015 9:12 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
Well the question is something conscious? is binary, like is something
alive?.
However there is a great spectrum of possible living entities, and a
massive gulf
that separates the simplest life forms from the most complex life forms. I
2015-02-04 7:43 GMT+01:00 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net:
On 2/3/2015 9:12 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
Well the question is something conscious? is binary, like is
something alive?. However there is a great spectrum of possible living
entities, and a massive gulf that separates the simplest
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 2/3/2015 9:12 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
Well the question is something conscious? is binary, like is
something alive?. However there is a great spectrum of possible living
entities, and a massive gulf that separates the
On 2/3/2015 9:22 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
If epiphenominalism is possible, then that it implies zombies are possible. All they
would require is cutting the causal link from the physical world to the mental world.
But the definition of epiphenominalism includes that it /*necessarily */accompanies
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:40 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 2/3/2015 11:13 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
I agree with John. If consciousness had no third-person observable
effects, it would be an epiphenomenon. And then there is no way to explain
why we're even having this discussion
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree with John. If consciousness had no third-person observable
effects, it would be an epiphenomenon. And then there is no way to explain
A vetrean of the Second World War, known only by his initials
W.J., suffered from a severe case of epilepsy. Worse, medication could not
stop his frequent and incapacitating seizures. There was, however, another
option: he could undergo a radical and newly conceived brain surgery. The
Yep, seems like good empirical support for Dennett's competing modules theory
of the brain.
Brent
On 2/3/2015 8:44 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
A vetrean of the Second World War, known only by his initials W.J.,
suffered from a severe case of epilepsy. Worse, medication could not
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
If consciousness was just a lucky accident Evolution would ensure
that it didn't exist for long.
Only if it cost something to maintain consciousness
Not so. Mutations happen all the time and nearly all of them are harmful.
In
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 6:54 AM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 10:56 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 02 Feb 2015, at 06:37, Samiya Illias wrote:
On 02-Feb-2015, at 6:12 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 2 February 2015 at 00:15,
I agree with John. If consciousness had no third-person observable effects,
it would be an epiphenomenon. And then there is no way to explain why we're
even having this discussion about consciousness.
If we build computers that discuss and question their own consciousness and
qualia I'd consider
On 03 Feb 2015, at 05:26, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 3:50 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
I believe you're wrong to assume intelligence=consciousness.
That may be an accident
If consciousness was just a lucky accident Evolution would ensure
that it didn't exist
On 03 Feb 2015, at 06:41, Jason Resch wrote:
What are your thoughts on split brains which develop two
independently conscious minds?
I can take this idea seriously. Some experiences are convincing, but I
need to see more of them.
We're they always two minds, or do they become such
On 2/3/2015 10:00 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
If consciousness was just a lucky accident Evolution would ensure
that it
didn't exist for long.
Only if it cost something to maintain
On 03 Feb 2015, at 06:54, Samiya Illias wrote:
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 10:56 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
On 02 Feb 2015, at 06:37, Samiya Illias wrote:
On 02-Feb-2015, at 6:12 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 2 February 2015 at 00:15, Samiya Illias
On 03 Feb 2015, at 07:01, meekerdb wrote:
I think conscious is ambiguous. From what I've read the two
halves of the split brain are not both conscious in the sense of
having an internal narrative; only one half is verbal.
The []p half.
Both halves are conscious in the sense of
On 2/3/2015 11:13 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
I agree with John. If consciousness had no third-person observable effects, it would be
an epiphenomenon. And then there is no way to explain why we're even having this
discussion about consciousness.
I'm not arguing that it has no observable effects.
On 03 Feb 2015, at 00:36, John Mikes wrote:
FRIENDS - MAINLY BRUNO
(it all came out from the French numbers).
any thoughts why some numerals have specific names, others use
composites?
Example: (Fr:) onze, ...seize yet dixset etc. German elf, zwoelf yet
dreizehen...
same in English,
On 4 February 2015 at 09:26, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree with John. If consciousness had no third-person observable
On 4 February 2015 at 08:23, David Nyman da...@davidnyman.com wrote:
On 3 February 2015 at 20:36, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
On the contrary, if consciousness were an epiphenomenon that would explain
why it evolved: it is a necessary side effect of intelligent behaviour, and
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 5:28 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
On 4 February 2015 at 10:13, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
On 4 February 2015 at 09:26, Jason Resch
On 4 February 2015 at 10:13, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
On 4 February 2015 at 09:26, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
On 4 February 2015 at 09:26, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015, Jason Resch
On 3 February 2015 at 13:09, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
wrote:
LizR wrote:
I think English, French, German all start composite numbers around 13?
(Maybe a Christian influence?)
I'm not sure you can deduce base 2 from half-eyed etc. And I imagine 5
was given a different design
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree with John. If consciousness had no third-person observable
effects, it would be an epiphenomenon. And then there is no way to explain
why we're even having this discussion about consciousness.
On the contrary, if
On 4 February 2015 at 08:59, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Note that for 0 you need an invisible stick! But it works.
I always carry one of those, to fend off Pookas.
--
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Good.
Yes, they are willing tools of the corporations and thus, almost all
politicians who get funded have their masters, and that is no question. Having
said that there are solutions, as long as we don't define a solution as making
excuses for the aggressor. My expectation is that the
On 4 February 2015 at 10:40, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 5:28 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
On 4 February 2015 at 10:13, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
2014 was the hottest year on record (Bloomberg)
http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2014-hottest-year-on-record/
Vast methane plumes escaping from the seafloor discovered in Siberian
Arctic Sea (Daily Kos)
On 2/3/2015 12:32 PM, LizR wrote:
On 3 February 2015 at 13:09, Bruce Kellett bhkell...@optusnet.com.au
mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
LizR wrote:
I think English, French, German all start composite numbers around 13?
(Maybe a
Christian influence?)
I'm not
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 12:02:02 PM UTC+1, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
Good.
Yes, they are willing tools of the corporations and thus, almost all
politicians who get funded have their masters, and that is no question.
Having said that there are solutions, as long as we don't define
On 3 February 2015 at 20:36, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
On the contrary, if consciousness were an epiphenomenon that would explain
why it evolved: it is a necessary side effect of intelligent behaviour,
and was not developed as a separate, useless add-on.
I still have no
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
On 4 February 2015 at 10:40, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 5:28 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
On 4 February 2015 at 10:13, Jason Resch
On 3 February 2015 at 23:11, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
An epiphenomenon is a necessary side-effect of the primary phenomenon.
The epiphenomenon has no separate causal efficacy of its own; if it
did, then we could devise a test for consciousness. This, by the way,
does not
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