subject:"\[FairfieldLife\] Billy Graham\: America is Just as Wicked..."

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-18 Thread curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 

Curtis, you probably don't realize how enjoyable it is to have you 
participating in any discussion here.

M: Back atchya bro. Nice to have a chance to rap.
 
 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Curtis, if I have a prayer, and I may silently say this on occasion, "Thy will 
be done"

M: Could it be otherwise if there is a God? What would be its purpose, like 
saying "water please be wet." He is God, why the nudge?
 

 Well, that is quite a bit different than the prayer he described isn't it.  
"Thy will be done", differs considerably form, "Hey God, we need to do A,B, or 
C".  
 

 S: If it is a prayer, there is no judgement implied in it. There is no 
thinking that there is a better or worse way things should operate.

M: The family around the baby would disagree. But if you take away its use in 
those places where it really does matter, what would you pray about or for?

 

 Curtis, I am not debating the merits of prayer, whether it works or not.  What 
I am saying is that he made a generalization about how people pray, and I am 
saying the generalization misses the mark in many cases.  Or at least some 
cases.
 

  "Thy will be done" says I accept the outcome of a situation.  It places the 
burden on the person making the prayer.  In other words, I'm down with whatever 
happens, good or bad.
 

 S: It is a simple, a simple..prayer, and I think many people carry 
an intention like this.

 

 So, if someone asserts prayer to be one of "putting something right", in the 
way "I think it should be", well, that strikes me as an overly broad and 
arrogant statement.

M: I honestly think arrogance is not in play at either end of the spectrum 
here. It is not arrogance that leads a family to beg God to spare their baby, 
it is desperation. And I don't begrudge them any internal relief they can 
muster. But abstracted from the human scene, we do have a paradox. Why would we 
have to remind God to be God? What are we doing? I think we are making 
ourselves feel better about the random shitty stuff that happens by labeling it 
as the will of God. I think it is a cushion for some people. Again, I don't 
begrudge them that, I just don't roll that way myself.
 

 What I am saying is that not everyone prays for a specific outcome.  And the 
fact that one is willing to accept the outcome of a situation, does not, in my 
opinion negate the existence of God, or make God a moot point. Like, "Hey, no 
need to bring God into the equation if there is to be no benefit"  Rather it 
says, I've got to take the long view. I have to live to see another day.  I 
think it has, or at least, can have, the effect of making a person more capable 
of dealing with the inevitable tests one is faced with.

M: But to say that supplication prayers are not one of its most popular uses 
would not be accurate I believe. Stand next to the intersession candles in a 
Catholic church sometime. They want specific shit. I believe that the "thy will 
be done even if it means the baby gets it" is in the minority. I could be 
wrong, except on a falling airplane. I would put money on that! Prayer vigils 
are always focused on an outcome aren't they. Let's all pray for his safe 
return from Afghanistan, her recovery from whatever..

 

 Well, I agree wholeheartedly.  I would guess that 90% of prayers are for 
something.  Absolutely.  What I am saying, is that I read his comment, and I 
had a different take on it.  That's all.
 

 Personally, I feel blessed.  So, for me the idea of asking for something seems 
selfish.  Plus, I'd like to think that I have the most control over my own 
destiny.
 

 S: What do you think?
 

 Maybe I am not unpacking that statement correctly.

M: Or maybe I have it all wrong, I just appreciate the dialogue and chance to 
articulate where we are at about something fraught with contradictions and 
challenges to our beliefs on both sides.
 

 Curtis, you probably don't realize how enjoyable it is to have you 
participating in any discussion here.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Predictably, this conversation interested me Steve...
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 S: Is this really the broad statement on which an atheist makes his case.?

M: I don't know why you would think that. The paradox of prayer he is pointing 
out is as relevant to believers as much as non believers and is a topic of much 
theological discussion within religions. 

As I understand it, he makes the case for a lack of belief in God elsewhere 
because of a lack of compelling evidence supporting the belief in any of its 
various forms. 

 

 S: In which case, it really is a shame to see the arrogant and skewed attitude 
held by an atheist.

M: I don't see where the label arrogant applies. For me it is a much more 
humble position to say that he does not know the mind of God (or even that he 
exists at

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-18 Thread awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Curtis, if I have a prayer, and I may silently say this on occasion, "Thy will 
be done"

M: Could it be otherwise if there is a God? What would be its purpose, like 
saying "water please be wet." He is God, why the nudge?
 

 I don't see it as a nudge, I see that statement, "Thy will be done" as a 
confirmation in the belief or faith of the supplicant in God's ultimate wisdom 
and power and final decision in a thing. It is not a redundant statement, it is 
an affirmation.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-18 Thread steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Curtis, if I have a prayer, and I may silently say this on occasion, "Thy will 
be done"

M: Could it be otherwise if there is a God? What would be its purpose, like 
saying "water please be wet." He is God, why the nudge?
 

 Well, that is quite a bit different than the prayer he described isn't it.  
"Thy will be done", differs considerably form, "Hey God, we need to do A,B, or 
C".  
 

 S: If it is a prayer, there is no judgement implied in it. There is no 
thinking that there is a better or worse way things should operate.

M: The family around the baby would disagree. But if you take away its use in 
those places where it really does matter, what would you pray about or for?

 

 Curtis, I am not debating the merits of prayer, whether it works or not.  What 
I am saying is that he made a generalization about how people pray, and I am 
saying the generalization misses the mark in many cases.  Or at least some 
cases.
 

  "Thy will be done" says I accept the outcome of a situation.  It places the 
burden on the person making the prayer.  In other words, I'm down with whatever 
happens, good or bad.
 

 S: It is a simple, a simple..prayer, and I think many people carry 
an intention like this.

 

 So, if someone asserts prayer to be one of "putting something right", in the 
way "I think it should be", well, that strikes me as an overly broad and 
arrogant statement.

M: I honestly think arrogance is not in play at either end of the spectrum 
here. It is not arrogance that leads a family to beg God to spare their baby, 
it is desperation. And I don't begrudge them any internal relief they can 
muster. But abstracted from the human scene, we do have a paradox. Why would we 
have to remind God to be God? What are we doing? I think we are making 
ourselves feel better about the random shitty stuff that happens by labeling it 
as the will of God. I think it is a cushion for some people. Again, I don't 
begrudge them that, I just don't roll that way myself.
 

 What I am saying is that not everyone prays for a specific outcome.  And the 
fact that one is willing to accept the outcome of a situation, does not, in my 
opinion negate the existence of God, or make God a moot point. Like, "Hey, no 
need to bring God into the equation if there is to be no benefit"  Rather it 
says, I've got to take the long view. I have to live to see another day.  I 
think it has, or at least, can have, the effect of making a person more capable 
of dealing with the inevitable tests one is faced with.

M: But to say that supplication prayers are not one of its most popular uses 
would not be accurate I believe. Stand next to the intersession candles in a 
Catholic church sometime. They want specific shit. I believe that the "thy will 
be done even if it means the baby gets it" is in the minority. I could be 
wrong, except on a falling airplane. I would put money on that! Prayer vigils 
are always focused on an outcome aren't they. Let's all pray for his safe 
return from Afghanistan, her recovery from whatever..

 

 Well, I agree wholeheartedly.  I would guess that 90% of prayers are for 
something.  Absolutely.  What I am saying, is that I read his comment, and I 
had a different take on it.  That's all.
 

 Personally, I feel blessed.  So, for me the idea of asking for something seems 
selfish.  Plus, I'd like to think that I have the most control over my own 
destiny.
 

 S: What do you think?
 

 Maybe I am not unpacking that statement correctly.

M: Or maybe I have it all wrong, I just appreciate the dialogue and chance to 
articulate where we are at about something fraught with contradictions and 
challenges to our beliefs on both sides.
 

 Curtis, you probably don't realize how enjoyable it is to have you 
participating in any discussion here.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Predictably, this conversation interested me Steve...
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 S: Is this really the broad statement on which an atheist makes his case.?

M: I don't know why you would think that. The paradox of prayer he is pointing 
out is as relevant to believers as much as non believers and is a topic of much 
theological discussion within religions. 

As I understand it, he makes the case for a lack of belief in God elsewhere 
because of a lack of compelling evidence supporting the belief in any of its 
various forms. 

 

 S: In which case, it really is a shame to see the arrogant and skewed attitude 
held by an atheist.

M: I don't see where the label arrogant applies. For me it is a much more 
humble position to say that he does not know the mind of God (or even that he 
exists at all.) than those who believe that they do. Is is arrogant for you to 
not join the believers in David Koresh's divinity? But lets get to the point he 
actually is making which is not a statement of atheism, b

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-18 Thread curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Curtis, if I have a prayer, and I may silently say this on occasion, "Thy will 
be done"

M: Could it be otherwise if there is a God? What would be its purpose, like 
saying "water please be wet." He is God, why the nudge?
 

 S: If it is a prayer, there is no judgement implied in it. There is no 
thinking that there is a better or worse way things should operate.

M: The family around the baby would disagree. But if you take away its use in 
those places where it really does matter, what would you pray about or for?

 

 S: It is a simple, a simple..prayer, and I think many people carry 
an intention like this.
 

 So, if someone asserts prayer to be one of "putting something right", in the 
way "I think it should be", well, that strikes me as an overly broad and 
arrogant statement.

M: I honestly think arrogance is not in play at either end of the spectrum 
here. It is not arrogance that leads a family to beg God to spare their baby, 
it is desperation. And I don't begrudge them any internal relief they can 
muster. But abstracted from the human scene, we do have a paradox. Why would we 
have to remind God to be God? What are we doing? I think we are making 
ourselves feel better about the random shitty stuff that happens by labeling it 
as the will of God. I think it is a cushion for some people. Again, I don't 
begrudge them that, I just don't roll that way myself.

M: But to say that supplication prayers are not one of its most popular uses 
would not be accurate I believe. Stand next to the intersession candles in a 
Catholic church sometime. They want specific shit. I believe that the "thy will 
be done even if it means the baby gets it" is in the minority. I could be 
wrong, except on a falling airplane. I would put money on that! Prayer vigils 
are always focused on an outcome aren't they. Let's all pray for his safe 
return from Afghanistan, her recovery from whatever..

 

 S: What do you think?
 

 Maybe I am not unpacking that statement correctly.

M: Or maybe I have it all wrong, I just appreciate the dialogue and chance to 
articulate where we are at about something fraught with contradictions and 
challenges to our beliefs on both sides.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Predictably, this conversation interested me Steve...
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 S: Is this really the broad statement on which an atheist makes his case.?

M: I don't know why you would think that. The paradox of prayer he is pointing 
out is as relevant to believers as much as non believers and is a topic of much 
theological discussion within religions. 

As I understand it, he makes the case for a lack of belief in God elsewhere 
because of a lack of compelling evidence supporting the belief in any of its 
various forms. 

 

 S: In which case, it really is a shame to see the arrogant and skewed attitude 
held by an atheist.

M: I don't see where the label arrogant applies. For me it is a much more 
humble position to say that he does not know the mind of God (or even that he 
exists at all.) than those who believe that they do. Is is arrogant for you to 
not join the believers in David Koresh's divinity? But lets get to the point he 
actually is making which is not a statement of atheism, but of paradox within 
the beliefs about how prayer works.
 
 CH:“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong,

M: Is it that "all is well and wisely put by God. Or did he get it wrong about 
the baby who has cancer? Why does the baby have cancer in the first place God? 
( I know Hindus think they have an answer: blame the baby, but when you are 
praying you are saying to God, "excuse me I think you got this karmic 
calculation wrong."

 CH: but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 

M: So what are the supporting beliefs about how the world works that support 
the action of prayer? I will try to hit Christian and Hindu versions.

For Christians there is a hidden premise that God is somehow unaware of the 
baby in the hospital, which contradicts the omniscience part of his definition, 
or that he is somehow not able to make if right for the little tyke on his own 
due to a limitation of his power (phrased as free will for man but this falls 
apart for the baby) which contradicts his omnipotence definition. 

Or he may not give a shit about the baby which defies the morally good part of 
what most people consider as important to the God idea.

So what does it mean when a whole planeload of people are falling out of the 
sky in an airline accident and presumably praying their seat-belted asses off ? 
Why do they need to? Is God so clueless to miss the problem like superman 
sitting in a dark bar in the afternoon throwing back scotches and trading 
banter with the bartender? What is prayer actually doing?
1. Bugging God like a nagging spouse. "Let's get everyone praying so

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-18 Thread steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Curtis, if I have a prayer, and I may silently say this on occasion, "Thy will 
be done" 

 If it is a prayer, there is no judgement implied in it. There is no thinking 
that there is a better or worse way things should operate.
 

 It is a simple, a simple..prayer, and I think many people carry an 
intention like this.
 

 So, if someone asserts prayer to be one of "putting something right", in the 
way "I think it should be", well, that strikes me as an overly broad and 
arrogant statement.
 

 What do you think?
 

 Maybe I am not unpacking that statement correctly.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Predictably, this conversation interested me Steve...
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 S: Is this really the broad statement on which an atheist makes his case.?

M: I don't know why you would think that. The paradox of prayer he is pointing 
out is as relevant to believers as much as non believers and is a topic of much 
theological discussion within religions. 

As I understand it, he makes the case for a lack of belief in God elsewhere 
because of a lack of compelling evidence supporting the belief in any of its 
various forms. 

 

 S: In which case, it really is a shame to see the arrogant and skewed attitude 
held by an atheist.

M: I don't see where the label arrogant applies. For me it is a much more 
humble position to say that he does not know the mind of God (or even that he 
exists at all.) than those who believe that they do. Is is arrogant for you to 
not join the believers in David Koresh's divinity? But lets get to the point he 
actually is making which is not a statement of atheism, but of paradox within 
the beliefs about how prayer works.
 
 CH:“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong,

M: Is it that "all is well and wisely put by God. Or did he get it wrong about 
the baby who has cancer? Why does the baby have cancer in the first place God? 
( I know Hindus think they have an answer: blame the baby, but when you are 
praying you are saying to God, "excuse me I think you got this karmic 
calculation wrong."

 CH: but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 

M: So what are the supporting beliefs about how the world works that support 
the action of prayer? I will try to hit Christian and Hindu versions.

For Christians there is a hidden premise that God is somehow unaware of the 
baby in the hospital, which contradicts the omniscience part of his definition, 
or that he is somehow not able to make if right for the little tyke on his own 
due to a limitation of his power (phrased as free will for man but this falls 
apart for the baby) which contradicts his omnipotence definition. 

Or he may not give a shit about the baby which defies the morally good part of 
what most people consider as important to the God idea.

So what does it mean when a whole planeload of people are falling out of the 
sky in an airline accident and presumably praying their seat-belted asses off ? 
Why do they need to? Is God so clueless to miss the problem like superman 
sitting in a dark bar in the afternoon throwing back scotches and trading 
banter with the bartender? What is prayer actually doing?
1. Bugging God like a nagging spouse. "Let's get everyone praying so he must 
hear us." As if prayer is like a football cheer made more potent by numbers. 
2. Cluing his amoral ass to the problem with people falling out of the sky or a 
baby dying?
3. Reminding him to pay attention because he gets distracted watching dinosaurs 
banging each other on the 250 million years ago heavenly animal planet channel? 
(In his defense, dinosaur porn IS mega hot. Don't get me started with what 
Triceratops can accomplish with those 3 horns...)
4. Giving an insecure God a pep talk that he can do it? Do we have to praise 
him up and down like a toddler and kiss his ass to get him to do something 
about it? Is that the problem, a lack of us demonstrating our toadying, 
groveling, subservience? Why does he need that? (The Bible is full of formula 
prayers that assume this very thing.)

What exactly is the belief in prayer based on? And why is God always let off 
the hook when the plane hits the ground? If he can ignore any prayer, why do we 
need them in the first place?

Now the Hindus basically have a mafioso payoff system in place. It is your 
karma but you can pay off minor deities who will talk to the big man on your 
behalf. And that requires multiple ass kisses. I was amazed at ceremonies with 
Maharishi and the pundits rattle off phases with no feeling, just hitting 
numbers prescribed by the scriptures. Ketu namaha, katu namaha, ketu namaha 
hundreds of times. It comes from a sacrifice culture that would offer animals 
just like the people who we dare not speak of in the Old Testament.  Later 
Christians who went all the way with a human sacrifice of  the "lamb kabob of 
God, Jesus himself because God created a wo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-18 Thread curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Predictably, this conversation interested me Steve...
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 S: Is this really the broad statement on which an atheist makes his case.?

M: I don't know why you would think that. The paradox of prayer he is pointing 
out is as relevant to believers as much as non believers and is a topic of much 
theological discussion within religions. 

As I understand it, he makes the case for a lack of belief in God elsewhere 
because of a lack of compelling evidence supporting the belief in any of its 
various forms. 

 

 S: In which case, it really is a shame to see the arrogant and skewed attitude 
held by an atheist.

M: I don't see where the label arrogant applies. For me it is a much more 
humble position to say that he does not know the mind of God (or even that he 
exists at all.) than those who believe that they do. Is is arrogant for you to 
not join the believers in David Koresh's divinity? But lets get to the point he 
actually is making which is not a statement of atheism, but of paradox within 
the beliefs about how prayer works.
 
 CH:“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong,

M: Is it that "all is well and wisely put by God. Or did he get it wrong about 
the baby who has cancer? Why does the baby have cancer in the first place God? 
( I know Hindus think they have an answer: blame the baby, but when you are 
praying you are saying to God, "excuse me I think you got this karmic 
calculation wrong."

 CH: but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 

M: So what are the supporting beliefs about how the world works that support 
the action of prayer? I will try to hit Christian and Hindu versions.

For Christians there is a hidden premise that God is somehow unaware of the 
baby in the hospital, which contradicts the omniscience part of his definition, 
or that he is somehow not able to make if right for the little tyke on his own 
due to a limitation of his power (phrased as free will for man but this falls 
apart for the baby) which contradicts his omnipotence definition. 

Or he may not give a shit about the baby which defies the morally good part of 
what most people consider as important to the God idea.

So what does it mean when a whole planeload of people are falling out of the 
sky in an airline accident and presumably praying their seat-belted asses off ? 
Why do they need to? Is God so clueless to miss the problem like superman 
sitting in a dark bar in the afternoon throwing back scotches and trading 
banter with the bartender? What is prayer actually doing?
1. Bugging God like a nagging spouse. "Let's get everyone praying so he must 
hear us." As if prayer is like a football cheer made more potent by numbers. 
2. Cluing his amoral ass to the problem with people falling out of the sky or a 
baby dying?
3. Reminding him to pay attention because he gets distracted watching dinosaurs 
banging each other on the 250 million years ago heavenly animal planet channel? 
(In his defense, dinosaur porn IS mega hot. Don't get me started with what 
Triceratops can accomplish with those 3 horns...)
4. Giving an insecure God a pep talk that he can do it? Do we have to praise 
him up and down like a toddler and kiss his ass to get him to do something 
about it? Is that the problem, a lack of us demonstrating our toadying, 
groveling, subservience? Why does he need that? (The Bible is full of formula 
prayers that assume this very thing.)

What exactly is the belief in prayer based on? And why is God always let off 
the hook when the plane hits the ground? If he can ignore any prayer, why do we 
need them in the first place?

Now the Hindus basically have a mafioso payoff system in place. It is your 
karma but you can pay off minor deities who will talk to the big man on your 
behalf. And that requires multiple ass kisses. I was amazed at ceremonies with 
Maharishi and the pundits rattle off phases with no feeling, just hitting 
numbers prescribed by the scriptures. Ketu namaha, katu namaha, ketu namaha 
hundreds of times. It comes from a sacrifice culture that would offer animals 
just like the people who we dare not speak of in the Old Testament.  Later 
Christians who went all the way with a human sacrifice of  the "lamb kabob of 
God, Jesus himself because God created a world where he would need to be 
appeased for how he created us. A fair condensation of the Old Testament is 
that : God created man and then everything man does gets God angry.

So the concept of prayer is fraught with paradoxes and unanswered questions as 
far as I can see. And Christopher (may God rest his eternal soul) was pointing 
that out without needing all my blather explaining it.

Cuz he was a badass writer and I am just a hack. But on the upside I am here to 
write and he is not, so compared to what he is cranking out now, I am freak'n 
Richard Brautigan!



   
 Christopher Hitchens.
 

 


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogr

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked... [1 Attachment]

2014-10-17 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

   But to bring this whole diversion (for that is what it is) back into
   the present, I really wish that Richard, Jim, and a few others would
   leave off this try-to-get-to-me-by-bringing-up-Rama shit. It's old,
   and it's based on your *own* cult thinking and how *your* minds
   work, not how mine works. 

>
You need to get a grip, Barry - you just posted about "Rama shit" a few 
months ago!

/"I've seen someone levitate. Many times. In many settings, from the Los 
Angeles //
//Convention Center to the Anza-Borrego Desert to a Denny's restaurant 
in the wee //

//hours of the night."/ - TurquoiseB

On 10/17/2014 9:55 PM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:

Richard, you've done it again!

>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

   
 
 On 10/17/2014 9:16 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:




 >
 I last saw this silly demand for a "monthly summary" shortly before I bailed 
from the group. Why I laughed so hard seeing it again is that laughter was my 
reaction when I *first* saw it. I laughed, and then I promptly ignored it. >
 How long have you been suffering from cognitive dissonance, Barry?
 
 "I had written stories about him before, for the book called The Last 
Incarnation, and I had tried to do my best on the 'term papers' he assigned to 
us from time to time, but until now he had never said a word to me about any of 
them." - Uncle Tantra, 2001
 
 http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm01.html 
http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm01.html





 >
 On 10/17/2014 9:53 PM, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:
 >
 
 

 Richard, you certainly have a knack of finding anything you need in this wide 
world of the internet. Nice sleuthing.




 >
 It's not really sleuthing - it's right there in the introduction to his own 
book that he wrote and posted to his own web site-   at the URL 
he posted to Google Groups over ten years ago. 
 
 (There's also something fishy about his claim of being with 200 drug-crazed 
hippies with Rama out in the Anza-Borrego State Park in the middle of the 
night. Where are you going to park 200 cars in a parking lot that only has room 
for 20 vehicles?).
 
 http://www.abdsp.org/ http://www.abdsp.org/
 > Heh, the hell with "pundit", may I call you Sherlock?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

On 10/17/2014 9:16 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... 
 [FairfieldLife] wrote:

>

I last saw this silly demand for a "monthly summary" shortly
before I bailed from the group. Why I laughed so hard seeing it
again is that laughter was my reaction when I *first* saw it. I
laughed, and then I promptly ignored it. 

>
/How long have you been suffering from cognitive dissonance, Barry?//
//
//"I had written stories about him before, for the book called The 
Last Incarnation, and I had tried to do my best on the 'term papers' 
he assigned to us from time to time, but until now he had never said a 
word to me about any of them." - Uncle Tantra, 2001//

//
//http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm01.html/

>
On 10/17/2014 9:53 PM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>

Richard, you certainly have a knack of finding anything you need in 
this wide world of the internet. Nice sleuthing.

>
/It's not really sleuthing - it's right there in the introduction to his 
own book that he wrote and posted to his own web site-   
at the URL he posted to Google Groups over ten years ago. /

/(There's also something fishy about his claim of being with 200 
drug-crazed hippies with Rama out in the Anza-Borrego State Park in the 
middle of the night. Where are you going to park 200 cars in a parking 
lot that only has room for 20 vehicles?).//

//
//http://www.abdsp.org//
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Seventhray, 

 When he was alive, Hitchens called himself an "antitheist".  I'm not sure if 
that is equivalent to a typical atheist.  Also, an antitheist may or may not be 
the same as a "non-theist", which is the label that Barry calls himself.
 

 All three are different in my opinion. Atheist being someone who believes in 
no god. The anti theist would be one who is anti god or anti belief in such a 
thing and god only knows what bawee thinks.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 OK, my bad. I clicked on the wrong folder and the email below opened, far 
enough that I caught a glimpse...  

 

 LOL -You sound like a fourth grader explaining why he was looking down the 
teacher's blouse...you haven't missed a post of mine, yet.
 

 Absofuckinglutely

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 10/17/2014 9:16 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

 But to bring this whole diversion (for that is what it is) back into the 
present, I really wish that Richard, Jim, and a few others would leave off this 
try-to-get-to-me-by-bringing-up-Rama shit. It's old, and it's based on your 
*own* cult thinking and how *your* minds work, not how mine works. >
 You need to get a grip, Barry - you just posted about "Rama shit" a few months 
ago!
 
 "I've seen someone levitate. Many times. In many settings, from the Los 
Angeles 
 Convention Center to the Anza-Borrego Desert to a Denny's restaurant in the 
wee 
 hours of the night." - TurquoiseB 
 
 Subject: TM is a Cult?
 Author: TurquoiseB
 Group: Yahoo Fairfieldife
 Date: Friday, 23 May 2014
 Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM is a Cult? 
http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg317597.html 
 
 http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg317597.html 
 
 Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM is a Cult? 
http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg317597.html 
From: salyavin808  Advertising ---In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote : Salya,I think ...
 
 
 
 View on www.mail-archive.com 
http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg317597.html 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 
 

 
 

 Richard, you've done it again!

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 10/17/2014 9:16 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

 I last saw this silly demand for a "monthly summary" shortly before I bailed 
from the group. Why I laughed so hard seeing it again is that laughter was my 
reaction when I *first* saw it. I laughed, and then I promptly ignored it. >
 How long have you been suffering from cognitive dissonance, Barry?
 
 "I had written stories about him before, for the book called The Last 
Incarnation, and I had tried to do my best on the 'term papers' he assigned to 
us from time to time, but until now he had never said a word to me about any of 
them." - Uncle Tantra, 2001
 
 http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm01.html 
http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm01.html
 
 

 Richard, you certainly have a knack of finding anything you need in this wide 
world of the internet. Nice sleuthing.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Yep - We are used to not being masters, of our own minds. Once we are, then our
desires become more powerful, and life starts to move in a good direction,
without thinking a lot about it.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Barry,

It could be that we're in a participative world of creation. Through their
own consciousness, humans can participate in bringing justice to the world.
This includes the age of enlightenment which MMY had envisioned.

It appears that the old computer acronym WYSZWYG applies in universal
creation too. IOW, what you see is what you get.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

From: salyavin808
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
>
> I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what
> Pastor Graham is recommending.

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.”

Christopher Hitchens.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping. :-D

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:

As Sodom and Gomorrah. But he has a solution.

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

This is your blind spot Barry. Your attacks are often judgemental, personal
attacks.

Most of us are well aware of the faults of the TMO. Your objection seems to
be that our take away is different from your take away.

You, as much as any person here are responsible for the divisive interactions.

And Michael, is a "all in" person.

You are either "all in" with his negative assertions about the TMO, and MMY,
or you are cultist.

If you get some time, give it some thought.

You guys IDENTIFY WITH your time with Maharishi, and with being part of his
group, or of being a teacher for him. A great deal of your own personal
"spiritual story" revolves around this identification. So when someone such as
myself or Michael makes fun of Maharishi or says what we really think about his
teachings, you get all defensive. By "attacking" him, you feel as if we are
"attacking" you, and you get your buttons pushed.

From: "fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife]"

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

Very interesting link - Shows that Barry was actively involved, in
soliciting new cult members for Freddie. No wonder he keeps his mouth shut
about that stuff, and only ever mentions Maharishi as a target, for "cult
mentality".

This is part of a report Barry filled out, and submitted monthly, to "Doctor"
Lenz. Other sections cover career, meditation, physical fitness, and product
development progress, every aspect of life - no mind control here folks:

5. YOUR APPRENTICE ACTIVITY UPDATE

With the understanding that your are entirely responsible for your
interactions with any individuals you choose to teach, Dr. Lenz and
ASI would like a monthly summary or your general attempts to local
appropriate students as well as a monthly update on whether you will
be bringing one or more of them to dinner the next month (starting in
January, note: Dinner reservations must be made in advance by calling
the reservation phone number).

Example: (These are not guidelines as to how you should locate or
deal with potential students of yours, it is merely an example.)

I created a poster for a lecture series I will be giving in the next 3
weeks. i will give 3 lectures, one per week for 3 weeks at Taft
College on the subject of meditation and psychic development in the
1990s and how it can benefit you in your career.

I have found what I feel is an excellent first candidate and will be
bringing her to the next dinner.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

On 10/17/2014 2:36 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@...
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

From: salyavin808 mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
mailto:jr_esq@... wrote :
>
> I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what
> Pastor Graham is recommending.

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.”

Christopher Hitchens.

The Hindu God Rama Lenz:

http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/ http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/
>

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
mailto:noozguru@... wrote :

Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping. :-D

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:

As Sodom and Gomorrah. But he has a solution.

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Seventhray, 

 When he was alive, Hitchens called himself an "antitheist".  I'm not sure if 
that is equivalent to a typical atheist.  Also, an antitheist may or may not be 
the same as a "non-theist", which is the label that Barry calls himself.
 

 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Is this really the broad statement on which an atheist makes his case.?
 

 In which case, it really is a shame to see the arrogant and skewed attitude 
held by an atheist.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 
 “The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 

   
 Christopher Hitchens.
 

 


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping.  :-D 
 
 On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
 
   As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.
 
 
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

MJ, 

 It also means that people in unity consciousness can change the world into 
heaven on earth.
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” - 
Christopher Hitchens.
 

 Oh that's rich! I love it! It also applies pretty well to the beliefs of the 
TM True Believers.

 

 From: salyavin808 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 3:18 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...
 
 
   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what 
Pastor Graham is recommending.
 

 

 “The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 
   
 Christopher Hitchens.

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping.  :-D 
 
 On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
 
   As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.
 
 
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Buck,

Graham is just expressing--albeit archaic-- the unique relationship that a
human being can have with the Creator when the person is in unity consciousness.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Yes in understanding Like, God the Unified Field.
By experience this makes a lot of sense to me if one gets the terminology
right.
Graham is just using archaic language. He makes a lot of
sense to me if you understands it right. With a little
spiritual experience as proper reference then understanding Only takes just
establishing
the equivalents like, God the transcendent Unified Field.
-Buck

turquoiseb@...> wrote :

From: salyavin808
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
>
> I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what
> Pastor Graham is recommending.

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.”

Christopher Hitchens.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping. :-D

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:

As Sodom and Gomorrah. But he has a solution.

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Barry, 

 It could be that we're in a participative world of creation.  Through their 
own consciousness, humans can participate in bringing justice to the world.  
This includes the age of enlightenment which MMY had envisioned.

 It appears that the old computer acronym WYSZWYG  applies in universal 
creation too.  IOW, what you see is what you get.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: salyavin808 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 9:18 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

   ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 > 
 > I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what 
 > Pastor Graham is recommending.

 “The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 

 Christopher Hitchens.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping.  :-D 

 On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:

   As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Salyavin, 

 Hitchens appeared to have echoed a similar thought coming from a Jewish rabbi 
who said many years ago that God needs some help in correcting the apparent 
errors in the world.  Also, another Jewish writer, Elie Wiesel, said that he 
could never forgive God for letting the holocaust happen.
 

 These are interesting human perspectives from Jews, who are supposedly God's 
"Chosen People".  Are their ideas the next step to human evolution?
 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what 
Pastor Graham is recommending.
 

 

 “The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 
   
 Christopher Hitchens.

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping.  :-D 
 
 On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
 
   As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.
 
 
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

On 10/17/2014 9:16 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:
I don't give a shit what Willytex makes up or that anyone else posts 
about Rama.

>
Thanks for bringing the subject up again so we can poke more fun at you 
and Rama and punch your buttons. We need a punching bag around here and 
you make the easiest target because you just can't seem to keep your big 
pie-hole shut about all your spiritual achievements. Go figure.


/"Willy, since fucking prairie dogs or whatever you do with your time 
doesn't seem to fill enough of it lately, and you've been going out of 
your way to associate me with Rama and thus with a big, bad cult figure, 
I figure I should explain a couple of things..."/


From: Uncle Tantra
Subject: Open Letter To Willytex
Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental
Date: 2003-08-06 08:53:26 PST
http://tinyurl.com/n2e7q7b

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

On 10/17/2014 9:16 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:
But to bring this whole diversion (for that is what it is) back into 
the present, I really wish that Richard, Jim, and a few others would 
leave off this try-to-get-to-me-by-bringing-up-Rama shit. It's old, 
and it's based on your *own* cult thinking and how *your* minds work, 
not how mine works. 

>
You need to get a grip, Barry - you just posted about "Rama shit" a few 
months ago!


/"I've seen someone levitate. Many times. In many settings, from the Los 
Angeles //
//Convention Center to the Anza-Borrego Desert to a Denny's restaurant 
in the wee //

//hours of the night."/ - TurquoiseB

Subject: TM is a Cult?
Author: TurquoiseB
Group: Yahoo Fairfieldife
Date: Friday, 23 May 2014
http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg317597.html

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Yes, the anti-cult, cult. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 10/17/2014 9:16 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:
 >
 I *was* a cultist, for the time I was a part of the Rama group. No question 
about it. It was a cult, Fred was its cult leader, and I was a cultist. I have 
No Problem saying any of this, because it's all true. 
 




 >
 The fact that you were a cult member and gave the cult leader ten thousand 
dollars is not surprising, nor that you were young and foolish - what surprises 
me is that you were a paying cult member for so long. It took you nearly twenty 
years to realize that you were never going to learn how to fly or levitate.
 Go figure.
 >
 That said, that was then and this is now. I bailed from Rama's study a couple 
of years before he died, and before some of the *really* crazy shit went down. 
 




 >
 So, the question is - if you lied for so long and to so many, who would 
believe anything you say now? It's possible you might still be in a trance 
induction state - you may have merely been turned, inducted into another cult - 
an anti-cult cult. Apparently you are very susceptible to suggestion and peer 
pressure.
 >

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

On 10/17/2014 9:16 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:
I last saw this silly demand for a "monthly summary" shortly before I 
bailed from the group. Why I laughed so hard seeing it again is that 
laughter was my reaction when I *first* saw it. I laughed, and then I 
promptly ignored it. 

>
/How long have you been suffering from cognitive dissonance, Barry?//
//
//"I had written stories about him before, for the book called The Last 
Incarnation, and I had tried to do my best on the 'term papers' he 
assigned to us from time to time, but until now he had never said a word 
to me about any of them." - Uncle Tantra, 2001//

//
//http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm01.html/

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

On 10/17/2014 9:16 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

>
I *was* a cultist, for the time I was a part of the Rama group. No 
question about it. It was a cult, Fred was its cult leader, and I was 
a cultist. I have No Problem saying any of this, because it's all true.

>
/The fact that you were a cult member and gave the cult leader ten 
thousand dollars is not surprising, nor that you were young and foolish 
- what surprises me is that you were a paying cult member for so long. 
It took you nearly twenty years to realize that you were never going to 
learn how to fly orlevitate.

//Go figure.
>
/
That said, that was then and this is now. I bailed from Rama's study a 
couple of years before he died, and before some of the *really* crazy 
shit went down.

>
/So, the question is - if you lied for so long and to so many, who would 
believe anything you say now? It's possible you might still be in a 
trance induction state - you may have merely been turned, inducted into 
another cult - an anti-cult cult. Apparently you are very susceptible to 
suggestion and peer pressure.

>/

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

en. I'll just 
teach for the fun of teaching and if any of my students feel like continuing 
with it I'll turn them over to one of the other teachers." 

 And that's what I did. I never sent in a single one of these silly reports 
because I never considered myself part of the "apprentice" thang. With one 
exception -- a girlfriend I introduced to Rama and who subsequently studied 
with him for some time -- I have never been more instrumental in "soliciting" 
anyone deciding to study with him than being the person who gave their "intro 
lecture." 

 But to bring this whole diversion (for that is what it is) back into the 
present, I really wish that Richard, Jim, and a few others would leave off this 
try-to-get-to-me-by-bringing-up-Rama shit. It's old, and it's based on your 
*own* cult thinking and how *your* minds work, not how mine works. 

 You guys IDENTIFY WITH your time with Maharishi, and with being part of his 
group, or of being a teacher for him. A great deal of your own personal 
"spiritual story" revolves around this identification. So when someone such as 
myself or Michael makes fun of Maharishi or says what we really think about his 
teachings, you get all defensive. By "attacking" him, you feel as if we are 
"attacking" you, and you get your buttons pushed. 

 So you try to do the same thing to me, trying to push my buttons by making fun 
of Rama or criticizing him. 

 But I really don't IDENTIFY with Rama or with that time any more. It's really 
just a part of the past, something that I walked away from over 18 years ago. 

 I don't give a shit what Willytex makes up or that anyone else posts about 
Rama. He's dead, and I walked away from him two years before he died. What you 
think of him doesn't interest me in the slightest, and it doesn't push any of 
my buttons. I don't feel the need to "defend" him, and never have. 

 I similarly don't feel the need to "apologize" for any of the time I spent 
with him. Much of that time was cutting-edge, hang-ten spiritual practice, with 
access to experiences you people never got a glimpse of within the TM movement. 
And yes, some of these experiences were a little odd and out of the ordinary, 
like witnessing levitation and invisibility and stuff like that. But it all 
really happened. Or at the very least I saw it happen. 

 End of story. It was fun for a long time, and when it stopped being fun I beat 
feet. 

 Exactly like my experience with TM and Maharishi. :-)

 Now back to ignoring these folks...  

 From: "fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife]" 

 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 3:15 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

   Very interesting link - Shows that Barry was actively involved, in 
soliciting new cult members for Freddie. No wonder he keeps his mouth shut 
about that stuff, and only ever mentions Maharishi as a target, for "cult 
mentality". 

 This is part of a report Barry filled out, and submitted monthly, to "Doctor" 
Lenz. Other sections cover career, meditation, physical fitness, and product 
development progress, every aspect of life - no mind control here folks: 

 5. YOUR APPRENTICE ACTIVITY UPDATE 

With the understanding that your are entirely responsible for your
interactions with any individuals you choose to teach, Dr. Lenz and
ASI would like a monthly summary or your general attempts to local
appropriate students as well as a monthly update on whether you will
be bringing one or more of them to dinner the next month (starting in
January, note: Dinner reservations must be made in advance by calling
the reservation phone number).

Example: (These are not guidelines as to how you should locate or
deal with potential students of yours, it is merely an example.)

I created a poster for a lecture series I will be giving in the next 3
weeks.  i will give 3 lectures, one per week for 3 weeks at Taft
College on the subject of meditation and psychic development in the
1990s and how it can benefit you in your career.

I have found what I feel is an excellent first candidate and will be
bringing her to the next dinner. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 10/17/2014 2:36 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

   From: salyavin808  mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 9:18 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

   ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:jr_esq@... wrote :
 > 
 > I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what 
 > Pastor Graham is recommending.

 “T

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

OK, my bad. I clicked on the wrong folder and the email below opened, far 
enough that I caught a glimpse...  

 

 LOL -You sound like a fourth grader explaining why he was looking down the 
teacher's blouse...you haven't missed a post of mine, yet.
 
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 OK, my bad. I clicked on the wrong folder and the email below opened, far 
enough that I caught a glimpse of the pasted-in Rama blurb below. That was a 
real blast from the past, and caused me to laugh out loud for some time. So 
because I'm still chuckling I think I'll actually address this particular 
instance of 
let's-try-to-paint-Barry-as-a-cultist-so-people-will-ignore-him-calling-us-cultists
 stuff from Jim and Richard. :-)

 

 I *was* a cultist, for the time I was a part of the Rama group. No question 
about it. It was a cult, Fred was its cult leader, and I was a cultist. I have 
No Problem saying any of this, because it's all true. 

 

 That said, that was then and this is now. I bailed from Rama's study a couple 
of years before he died, and before some of the *really* crazy shit went down. 

 

 I last saw this silly demand for a "monthly summary" shortly before I bailed 
from the group. Why I laughed so hard seeing it again is that laughter was my 
reaction when I *first* saw it. I laughed, and then I promptly ignored it. 

 

 I had, in fact, been teaching basic meditation for the guy, and really 
enjoying doing the teaching for free, both in the US and in Amsterdam. But I 
really *didn't* like one aspect of the way he'd set up the teaching thang -- 
he'd made it competitive. The purpose of teaching became not just to teach 
people how to meditate (which was cool in my opinion), but to urge them to 
become full-time students with Rama (which was not). Furthermore, if you found 
such students, they became your "apprentices" (a la Castaneda), and you had to 
run their day-to-day study, and be kinda responsible for them. If you got ten 
apprentices, you got a spiritual name. 

 

 Really. Hey, I told you it was a cult. :-)

 

 Anyway, I was already partly out the door, so when I heard all this shit about 
apprentices my first thought was, "Yeah, like that's gonna happen. I'll just 
teach for the fun of teaching and if any of my students feel like continuing 
with it I'll turn them over to one of the other teachers." 

 

 And that's what I did. I never sent in a single one of these silly reports 
because I never considered myself part of the "apprentice" thang. With one 
exception -- a girlfriend I introduced to Rama and who subsequently studied 
with him for some time -- I have never been more instrumental in "soliciting" 
anyone deciding to study with him than being the person who gave their "intro 
lecture." 

 

 But to bring this whole diversion (for that is what it is) back into the 
present, I really wish that Richard, Jim, and a few others would leave off this 
try-to-get-to-me-by-bringing-up-Rama shit. It's old, and it's based on your 
*own* cult thinking and how *your* minds work, not how mine works. 

 

 You guys IDENTIFY WITH your time with Maharishi, and with being part of his 
group, or of being a teacher for him. A great deal of your own personal 
"spiritual story" revolves around this identification. So when someone such as 
myself or Michael makes fun of Maharishi or says what we really think about his 
teachings, you get all defensive. By "attacking" him, you feel as if we are 
"attacking" you, and you get your buttons pushed. 

 

 So you try to do the same thing to me, trying to push my buttons by making fun 
of Rama or criticizing him. 

 

 But I really don't IDENTIFY with Rama or with that time any more. It's really 
just a part of the past, something that I walked away from over 18 years ago. 

 

 I don't give a shit what Willytex makes up or that anyone else posts about 
Rama. He's dead, and I walked away from him two years before he died. What you 
think of him doesn't interest me in the slightest, and it doesn't push any of 
my buttons. I don't feel the need to "defend" him, and never have. 

 

 I similarly don't feel the need to "apologize" for any of the time I spent 
with him. Much of that time was cutting-edge, hang-ten spiritual practice, with 
access to experiences you people never got a glimpse of within the TM movement. 
And yes, some of these experiences were a little odd and out of the ordinary, 
like witnessing levitation and invisibility and stuff like that. But it all 
really happened. Or at the very least I saw it happen. 

 

 End of story. It was fun for a long time, and when it stopped being fun I beat 
feet. 

 

 Exactly like my experience with TM and Maharishi. :-)
 

 Now back to ignoring these folks...  

 

 From:

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

On 10/17/2014 8:15 AM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:

Very interesting link - Shows that Barry was actively involved, in
soliciting new cult members for Freddie. No wonder he keeps his mouth
shut about that stuff, and only ever mentions Maharishi as a target,
for "cult mentality".

>
/it's common knowledge that Barry solicited new members for MMY and Lenz
- that's what cult members do. At one point Barry was handing out flyers
for the TMO promising enlightenment in "5-7" years and later tacking up
posters for Lenz, promising "instant" enlightenment. Apparently paid for
by Barry with his own money.//Go figure.//

//
//What you need to understand, Jim, is that after spending twenty years
seeking a spiritual path with little or no results; and donating
thousands of dollars to the cult over a long period of time, Barry is
probably justified in his bitterness and anger toward his previous cult
members. Maybe it makes him feel better to aim his anger at us. You'd be
upset too, if after twenty or thirty years of striving, you realized
that you had been enlightened since birth, but you were to ignorant to
realize it. Go figure. //

//
//The problem for Barry isn't the time or the money spent in the cult,
but the problem is getting over the deception. That's difficult -
sometimes it takes years of counseling to come to terms with with the
fact that he is still a True Believer. It didn't help much when Judy
made fun of his spiritual teachings. //It looks like he has led a life
of rejection.

And then, getting rejected by a discussion group on Yahoo. That might
hurt the ego and make anyone angry and depressed!/

This is part of a report Barry filled out, and submitted monthly, to
"Doctor" Lenz. Other sections cover career, meditation, physical
fitness, and product development progress, every aspect of life - no
mind control here folks:

5. YOUR APPRENTICE ACTIVITY UPDATE

Example: (These are not guidelines as to how you should locate or
deal with potential students of yours, it is merely an example.)

I have found what I feel is an excellent first candidate and will be
bringing her to the next dinner.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

On 10/17/2014 2:36 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@...
<mailto:turquoiseb@...> [FairfieldLife] wrote:

*From:* salyavin808
<mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Friday, October 17, 2014 9:18 AM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as
Wicked...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>,
<mailto:jr_esq@...> wrote :
>
> I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect
in what Pastor Graham is recommending.

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged
matters all wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god
how to put them right.”

Christopher Hitchens.

/The Hindu God Rama Lenz:/

/http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama//
>

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>,
<mailto:noozguru@...> wrote :

Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping. :-D

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... <mailto:jr_esq@...>
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

As Sodom and Gomorrah. But he has a solution.

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

 John, it's not just prayer but repentance. Changing from those *wicked* 
ways.The God of Abraham, Isaac and Joseph prescribed a formula for His people 
to live by. If they strayed, they would lose His favor or protection. We see 
the same as a nation being in tune with dharma with support of nature or 
becoming adharmic and losing the support of nature. This doesn't occure over a 
period of a few years but over generations and we are currently becoming more 
and more adharmic. We no longer, as a nation, think of what we can do for our 
country, but what is our country going to do for *me*. Politicians exploit this 
*me first* mentality at the expense of the whole. Divide and conquer and the 
nation falls apart. 

On Thursday, October 16, 2014 9:32 PM, "jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 
 wrote:

I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what Pastor 
Graham is recommending.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll
start hopping.  :-D 

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>

>As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.
>
>
>http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Richard, I'm just hoping this Lisa Simpson isn't related to Homer Simpson. But 
wait...maybe that would be a good thing!



On Friday, October 17, 2014 11:01 AM, "'Richard J. Williams' 
pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]"  wrote:
 


  
On 10/17/2014 7:57 AM, salyavin808 wrote:

  
>
>
>"Prayer, the last last refuge of the scoundrel" - Lisa Simpson.
>
Now this is funny - a guy in the MMY cult says he still practices TM - and then 
calls himself a "scoundrel." It may be more than depression that is affecting 
this guy - he seems to be in cognitive dissonance or unable to use logic. 

According to this guy, TM is a religion that has him praying to
  Hindu gods and he has been praying for a decade with no visible
  results, so now he is depressed and bitter and apparently refuses
  to get help, even at a free clinic with cult exit counselors on
  staff, so he goes on Yahoo to get help sending out emails in the
  middle of the night to people in the U.S.Go figure.
>


>
>
>
>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>
>
>I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what 
>Pastor Graham is recommending.
>
>
>
>
>“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
>wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 
>
>  
>Christopher Hitchens.
>
>
>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>
>
>Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping.  :-D 
>
>
>On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:

>  
>>As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.
>>
>>
>>http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were
>>
>
>
>
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]


On 10/17/2014 7:57 AM, salyavin808 wrote:



"Prayer, the last last refuge of the scoundrel" - Lisa Simpson.

>
/Now this is funny - a guy in the MMY cult says he still practices TM - 
and then calls himself a "scoundrel.//" It may be more than depression 
that is affecting this guy - he seems to be in cognitive dissonance or 
unable to use logic.


According to this guy, TM is a religion that has him praying to Hindu 
gods and he has been praying for a decade with no visible results, so 
now he is depressed and bitter and apparently refuses to get help, even 
at a free clinic with cult exit counselors on staff, so he goes on Yahoo 
to get help sending out emails in the middle of the night to people in 
the U.S.//Go figure./

>




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in 
what Pastor Graham is recommending.



“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters 
all wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put 
them right.”


Christopher Hitchens.



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping. :-D

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:


As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.


http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 your bravery is first rate...I just hope you got to him in time...poor 
bastard...
 

 After this bawee will be checking all our posts just in case he has to write a 
really big justification post counteracting all of the evidence of his past 
involvement with recruiting cult leader nut jobs. I like how they call those 
wooed as "candidates". Candidates for exactly what? And I love how Lenz has 
found a very promising female candidate to bring to dinner. I wonder in what 
way she was promising (or, more likely, what she was promising.)
 

 This Apprentice Activity Update was a hoot. Got anything else, I need more 
light humor like this in my day. (I'm sorry Share if you think I am bullying 
bawee by liking Mac's post here.)
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Michael, cover your eyes! 

 For God's sake, cover your eyes!!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Very interesting link - Shows that Barry was actively involved, in soliciting 
new cult members for Freddie. No wonder he keeps his mouth shut about that 
stuff, and only ever mentions Maharishi as a target, for "cult mentality".  

 This is part of a report Barry filled out, and submitted monthly, to "Doctor" 
Lenz. Other sections cover career, meditation, physical fitness, and product 
development progress, every aspect of life - no mind control here folks: 

 5. YOUR APPRENTICE ACTIVITY UPDATE 

With the understanding that your are entirely responsible for your
interactions with any individuals you choose to teach, Dr. Lenz and
ASI would like a monthly summary or your general attempts to local
appropriate students as well as a monthly update on whether you will
be bringing one or more of them to dinner the next month (starting in
January, note: Dinner reservations must be made in advance by calling
the reservation phone number).

Example: (These are not guidelines as to how you should locate or
deal with potential students of yours, it is merely an example.)

I created a poster for a lecture series I will be giving in the next 3
weeks.  i will give 3 lectures, one per week for 3 weeks at Taft
College on the subject of meditation and psychic development in the
1990s and how it can benefit you in your career.

I have found what I feel is an excellent first candidate and will be
bringing her to the next dinner.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 OK, my bad. I clicked on the wrong folder and the email below opened, far 
enough that I caught a glimpse of the pasted-in Rama blurb below. That was a 
real blast from the past, and caused me to laugh out loud for some time. So 
because I'm still chuckling I think I'll actually address this particular 
instance of 
let's-try-to-paint-Barry-as-a-cultist-so-people-will-ignore-him-calling-us-cultists
 stuff from Jim and Richard. :-)

 

 I *was* a cultist, for the time I was a part of the Rama group. No question 
about it. It was a cult, Fred was its cult leader, and I was a cultist. I have 
No Problem saying any of this, because it's all true. 

 

 Justify, Justify, Justify.
 

 That said, that was then and this is now. I bailed from Rama's study a couple 
of years before he died, and before some of the *really* crazy shit went down. 

 

 I last saw this silly demand for a "monthly summary" shortly before I bailed 
from the group. Why I laughed so hard seeing it again is that laughter was my 
reaction when I *first* saw it. I laughed, and then I promptly ignored it. 

 

 I had, in fact, been teaching basic meditation for the guy, and really 
enjoying doing the teaching for free, both in the US and in Amsterdam. But I 
really *didn't* like one aspect of the way he'd set up the teaching thang -- 
he'd made it competitive. The purpose of teaching became not just to teach 
people how to meditate (which was cool in my opinion), but to urge them to 
become full-time students with Rama (which was not). Furthermore, if you found 
such students, they became your "apprentices" (a la Castaneda), and you had to 
run their day-to-day study, and be kinda responsible for them. If you got ten 
apprentices, you got a spiritual name. 

 

 Really. Hey, I told you it was a cult. :-)

 

 Justify, justify, justify.
 

 Anyway, I was already partly out the door, so when I heard all this shit about 
apprentices my first thought was, "Yeah, like that's gonna happen. I'll just 
teach for the fun of teaching and if any of my students feel like continuing 
with it I'll turn them over to one of the other teachers." 

 

 And that's what I did. I never sent in a single one of these silly reports 
because I never considered myself part of the "apprentice" thang. With one 
exception -- a girlfriend I introduced to Rama and who subsequently studied 
with him for some time -- I have never been more instrumental in "soliciting" 
anyone deciding to study with him than being the person who gave their "intro 
lecture." 

 

 But to bring this whole diversion (for that is what it is) back into the 
present, I really wish that Richard, Jim, and a few others would leave off this 
try-to-get-to-me-by-bringing-up-Rama shit. It's old, and it's based on your 
*own* cult thinking and how *your* minds work, not how mine works. 

 

 You guys IDENTIFY WITH your time with Maharishi, and with being part of his 
group, or of being a teacher for him. A great deal of your own personal 
"spiritual story" revolves around this identification. So when someone such as 
myself or Michael makes fun of Maharishi or says what we really think about his 
teachings, you get all defensive. By "attacking" him, you feel as if we are 
"attacking" you, and you get your buttons pushed. 

 

 Lurking reporters please note: bawee is a mind reader. Or is he simply 
projecting?
 

 So you try to do the same thing to me, trying to push my buttons by making fun 
of Rama or criticizing him. 

 

 Imagine, someone doing unto others. How dare they?
 

 But I really don't IDENTIFY with Rama or with that time any more. It's really 
just a part of the past, something that I walked away from over 18 years ago. 

 

 I don't give a shit what Willytex makes up or that anyone else posts about 
Rama. 
 

 He's dead,
 

 Not in your mind he's not. And you so "don't give a shit" that you are 
spending how many paragraphs writing about it? LOL
 


  and I walked away from him two years before he died. What you think of him 
doesn't interest me in the slightest, and it doesn't push any of my buttons. I 
don't feel the need to "defend" him, and never have. 

 

 That is why I continually post about how cool and cutting edge he was.
 

 I similarly don't feel the need to "apologize" for any of the time I spent 
with him. 
 

 That is why I am about to justify why I hung around him for as long as I did.
 

 Much of that time was cutting-edge, hang-ten spiritual practice, with access 
to experiences you people never got a glimpse of within the TM movement. And 
yes, some of these experiences were a little odd and out of the ordinary, like 
witnessing levitation and invisibility and stuff like that. But it all really 
happened. Or at the very least I saw it happen. 

 

 End of story. It was fun for a long time, and when it stopped being fun I beat 
feet. 

 

 Exactly like my experience with TM and Maharishi. :-)
 

 Now back to ignoring these f

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

On 10/17/2014 7:24 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:

Michael's first bash of the day.  Certainly not to be the last.

Michael, I sort of cringe, for your sake, but you know you come off 
as, sort of, adoring Barry.

>
/It is a little embarrassing - they both want to be spiritual teachers, 
reduced to preaching on social media, and they even suck at that. 
According to Barry he knows a special technique for raising the 
"kundalini" and then his mind gets a "slingshot" into transcendence. 
Iwonder how that Kung Foo is working out for MJ? Go figure./

>

I mean, it seems a little strange, for one who demeans people on a 
daily basis for "cult mentality"

>
/MJ is the reporter and Barry is the writer of science magazine 
articles. It's a match made in heaven. LoL!

>
/

Jusy sayin' (-:

>
/That doesn't say much for Barry!/

/"I've seen someone levitate. Many times. In many settings, from the Los 
Angeles //
//Convention Center to the Anza-Borrego Desert to a Denny's restaurant 
in the wee //

//hours of the night." /- TurquoiseB

Subject: TM is a Cult?
Author: TurquoiseB
Group: Yahoo Fairfieldife
Date: Friday, 23 May 2014
http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg317597.html
>

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters 
all wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put 
them right.” - Christopher Hitchens.

Oh that's rich! I love it! It also applies pretty well to the beliefs 
of the TM True Believers.

*From:* salyavin808 
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Friday, October 17, 2014 3:18 AM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in 
what Pastor Graham is recommending.

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters 
all wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put 
them right.”

Christopher Hitchens.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping. :-D

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... <mailto:jr_esq@...>
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

OK, my bad. I clicked on the wrong folder and the email below opened, far 
enough that I caught a glimpse of the pasted-in Rama blurb below. That was a 
real blast from the past, and caused me to laugh out loud for some time. So 
because I'm still chuckling I think I'll actually address this particular 
instance of 
let's-try-to-paint-Barry-as-a-cultist-so-people-will-ignore-him-calling-us-cultists
 stuff from Jim and Richard. :-)


I *was* a cultist, for the time I was a part of the Rama group. No question 
about it. It was a cult, Fred was its cult leader, and I was a cultist. I have 
No Problem saying any of this, because it's all true. 


That said, that was then and this is now. I bailed from Rama's study a couple 
of years before he died, and before some of the *really* crazy shit went down. 


I last saw this silly demand for a "monthly summary" shortly before I bailed 
from the group. Why I laughed so hard seeing it again is that laughter was my 
reaction when I *first* saw it. I laughed, and then I promptly ignored it. 


I had, in fact, been teaching basic meditation for the guy, and really enjoying 
doing the teaching for free, both in the US and in Amsterdam. But I really 
*didn't* like one aspect of the way he'd set up the teaching thang -- he'd made 
it competitive. The purpose of teaching became not just to teach people how to 
meditate (which was cool in my opinion), but to urge them to become full-time 
students with Rama (which was not). Furthermore, if you found such students, 
they became your "apprentices" (a la Castaneda), and you had to run their 
day-to-day study, and be kinda responsible for them. If you got ten 
apprentices, you got a spiritual name. 


Really. Hey, I told you it was a cult. :-)


Anyway, I was already partly out the door, so when I heard all this shit about 
apprentices my first thought was, "Yeah, like that's gonna happen. I'll just 
teach for the fun of teaching and if any of my students feel like continuing 
with it I'll turn them over to one of the other teachers." 


And that's what I did. I never sent in a single one of these silly reports 
because I never considered myself part of the "apprentice" thang. With one 
exception -- a girlfriend I introduced to Rama and who subsequently studied 
with him for some time -- I have never been more instrumental in "soliciting" 
anyone deciding to study with him than being the person who gave their "intro 
lecture." 


But to bring this whole diversion (for that is what it is) back into the 
present, I really wish that Richard, Jim, and a few others would leave off this 
try-to-get-to-me-by-bringing-up-Rama shit. It's old, and it's based on your 
*own* cult thinking and how *your* minds work, not how mine works. 


You guys IDENTIFY WITH your time with Maharishi, and with being part of his 
group, or of being a teacher for him. A great deal of your own personal 
"spiritual story" revolves around this identification. So when someone such as 
myself or Michael makes fun of Maharishi or says what we really think about his 
teachings, you get all defensive. By "attacking" him, you feel as if we are 
"attacking" you, and you get your buttons pushed. 


So you try to do the same thing to me, trying to push my buttons by making fun 
of Rama or criticizing him. 


But I really don't IDENTIFY with Rama or with that time any more. It's really 
just a part of the past, something that I walked away from over 18 years ago. 


I don't give a shit what Willytex makes up or that anyone else posts about 
Rama. He's dead, and I walked away from him two years before he died. What you 
think of him doesn't interest me in the slightest, and it doesn't push any of 
my buttons. I don't feel the need to "defend" him, and never have. 


I similarly don't feel the need to "apologize" for any of the time I spent with 
him. Much of that time was cutting-edge, hang-ten spiritual practice, with 
access to experiences you people never got a glimpse of within the TM movement. 
And yes, some of these experiences were a little odd and out of the ordinary, 
like witnessing levitation and invisibility and stuff like that. But it all 
really happened. Or at the very least I saw it happen. 


End of story. It was fun for a long time, and when it stopped being fun I beat 
feet. 


Exactly like my experience with TM and Maharishi. :-)

Now back to ignoring these folks...  



____________
From: "fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham:  America is Just as Wicked...
 


  
Very interesting link - Shows that Barry was actively involved, in soliciting 
new cult members for Freddie. No wo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Is this really the broad statement on which an atheist makes his case.?
 

 In which case, it really is a shame to see the arrogant and skewed attitude 
held by an atheist.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 
 “The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 

   
 Christopher Hitchens.
 

 


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping.  :-D 
 
 On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
 
   As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.
 
 
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

your bravery is first rate...I just hope you got to him in time...poor
bastard...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Michael, cover your eyes!

For God's sake, cover your eyes!!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Very interesting link - Shows that Barry was actively involved, in soliciting
new cult members for Freddie. No wonder he keeps his mouth shut about that
stuff, and only ever mentions Maharishi as a target, for "cult mentality".

5. YOUR APPRENTICE ACTIVITY UPDATE

Example: (These are not guidelines as to how you should locate or
deal with potential students of yours, it is merely an example.)

I have found what I feel is an excellent first candidate and will be
bringing her to the next dinner.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

On 10/17/2014 2:36 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@...
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.”

Christopher Hitchens.

The Hindu God Rama Lenz:

http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/ http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/
>

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
mailto:noozguru@... wrote :

Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping. :-D

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:

As Sodom and Gomorrah. But he has a solution.

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Michael, cover your eyes!

For God's sake, cover your eyes!!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Very interesting link - Shows that Barry was actively involved, in soliciting
new cult members for Freddie. No wonder he keeps his mouth shut about that
stuff, and only ever mentions Maharishi as a target, for "cult mentality".

5. YOUR APPRENTICE ACTIVITY UPDATE

Example: (These are not guidelines as to how you should locate or
deal with potential students of yours, it is merely an example.)

I have found what I feel is an excellent first candidate and will be
bringing her to the next dinner.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

On 10/17/2014 2:36 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@...
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.”

Christopher Hitchens.

The Hindu God Rama Lenz:

http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/ http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/
>

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
mailto:noozguru@... wrote :

Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping. :-D

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:

As Sodom and Gomorrah. But he has a solution.

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Very interesting link - Shows that Barry was actively involved, in soliciting
new cult members for Freddie. No wonder he keeps his mouth shut about that
stuff, and only ever mentions Maharishi as a target, for "cult mentality".

5. YOUR APPRENTICE ACTIVITY UPDATE

Example: (These are not guidelines as to how you should locate or
deal with potential students of yours, it is merely an example.)

I have found what I feel is an excellent first candidate and will be
bringing her to the next dinner.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

On 10/17/2014 2:36 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@...
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.”

Christopher Hitchens.

The Hindu God Rama Lenz:

http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/ http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/
>

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
mailto:noozguru@... wrote :

Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping. :-D

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:

As Sodom and Gomorrah. But he has a solution.

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread salyavin808


 "Prayer, the last last refuge of the scoundrel" - Lisa Simpson.
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what 
Pastor Graham is recommending.
 

 

 “The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 
   
 Christopher Hitchens.

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping.  :-D 
 
 On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
 
   As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.
 
 
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked... [1 Attachment]

2014-10-17 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

On 10/17/2014 2:36 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

*From:* salyavin808 
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Friday, October 17, 2014 9:18 AM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
>
> I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in 
what Pastor Graham is recommending.

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters 
all wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put 
them right.”

Christopher Hitchens.

>

/The Hindu God Rama Lenz:/

/http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama//
>

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping. :-D

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... <mailto:jr_esq@...>
[FairfieldLife] wrote:

As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]


On 10/17/2014 2:18 AM, salyavin808 wrote:

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in 
what Pastor Graham is recommending.



“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters 
all wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put 
them right.”


Christopher Hitchens.


>
/"There are no atheists in foxholes."/ - Ernie Pyle

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]


On 10/16/2014 11:32 PM, jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in 
what Pastor Graham is recommending.

>
/"There are no atheists in foxholes."- /Ernie Pyle

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Michael's first bash of the day. Certainly not to be the last.

Michael, I sort of cringe, for your sake, but you know you come off as, sort
of, adoring Barry.

I mean, it seems a little strange, for one who demeans people on a daily basis
for "cult mentality"

Jusy sayin' (-:

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” -
Christopher Hitchens.

Oh that's rich! I love it! It also applies pretty well to the beliefs of the
TM True Believers.

From: salyavin808
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what
Pastor Graham is recommending.

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.”

Christopher Hitchens.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping. :-D

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:

As Sodom and Gomorrah. But he has a solution.

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]

On 10/16/2014 10:04 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping. :-D

>
/Maybe you should mutter more non-sense gibberish "mantras" //and you'll 
slowly lift up off of your sofa. /

>

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:

As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Why knock people and their beliefs, so incessantly? 

 I think we get it by now. People who believe in God deserve to be lampooned in 
your mind.

 It is part of your usual fare, unfortunately.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: salyavin808 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 9:18 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

   ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 > 
 > I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what 
 > Pastor Graham is recommending.

 “The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 

 Christopher Hitchens.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping.  :-D 

 On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:

   As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Even in the SBAL Maharishi writes that our program is to meditate and act. So 
it's more like: meditate as if everything depends on Being; act as if 
everything depends on us.

On Friday, October 17, 2014 6:51 AM, "Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com 
[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters 
all wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them 
right.” - Christopher Hitchens.

Oh that's rich! I love it! It also applies pretty well to the beliefs of the TM 
True Believers.

 From: salyavin808 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham:  America is Just as Wicked...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what Pastor 
Graham is recommending.

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 

Christopher Hitchens.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll
start hopping.  :-D 

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>>

>As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.
>
>
>http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Is this really the broad statement on which an atheist makes his case.?
 

 In which case, it really is a shame to see the arrogant and skewed attitude 
held by an atheist.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 
 “The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 

   
 Christopher Hitchens.
 

 


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping.  :-D 
 
 On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
 
   As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.
 
 
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters 
all wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them 
right.” - Christopher Hitchens.

Oh that's rich! I love it! It also applies pretty well to the beliefs of the TM 
True Believers.

 From: salyavin808 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham:  America is Just as Wicked...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what Pastor 
Graham is recommending.

“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 

Christopher Hitchens.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll
start hopping.  :-D 

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>>

>As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.
>
>
>http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

Yes in understanding Like, God the Unified Field. 
 By experience this makes a lot of sense to me if one gets the terminology 
right.
 Graham is just using archaic language. He makes a lot of
 sense to me if you understands it right. With a little 
 spiritual experience as proper reference then understanding Only takes just 
establishing 
 the equivalents like, God the transcendent Unified Field.
 -Buck
 

 turquoiseb@...> wrote :
 

 From: salyavin808 
 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 9:18 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...
 
 
   ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 > 
 > I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what 
 > Pastor Graham is recommending.
 

 

 “The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 

 Christopher Hitchens.

 
 













---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping.  :-D 
 
 On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
 
   As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.
 
 
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

From: salyavin808 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham:  America is Just as Wicked...
 


  
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

> 

> I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what 
> Pastor Graham is recommending.


“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 


Christopher Hitchens.














---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll
start hopping.  :-D 


On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>>
 
>As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.
>
>
>http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-17 Thread salyavin808


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what 
Pastor Graham is recommending.
 

 

 “The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all 
wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” 
   
 Christopher Hitchens.

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping.  :-D 
 
 On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
 
   As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.
 
 
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-16 Thread jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

I was thinking that there's a similarity to the Maharishi Effect in what Pastor 
Graham is recommending.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping.  :-D 
 
 On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
 
   As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.
 
 
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

Re: [FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-16 Thread Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]


Yeah, maybe if they pray enough they'll start hopping. :-D

On 10/16/2014 06:32 PM, jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.


http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

[FairfieldLife] Billy Graham: America is Just as Wicked...

2014-10-16 Thread jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]

As Sodom and Gomorrah.  But he has a solution.
 

 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were
 
http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/michael-w-chapman/rev-billy-graham-america-just-wicked-sodom-and-gomorrah-ever-were

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