[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Hey Vaj I don't have access to the Badarayana Sutra, but do have a copy of the Shiva Sutras as edited by Swami Lakshmanjoo. How does that stack up as a source of worthiness? Thanks Tom T To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Good Morning Tom: On Mar 23, 2005, at 8:11 AM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: I don't have access to the Badarayana Sutra, You can download a nice version in PDF format at: http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/brahma_00.html but do have a copy of the Shiva Sutras as edited by Swami Lakshmanjoo. How does that stack up as a source of worthiness? Fantastic! smile Best, V. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
On Mar 23, 2005, at 8:17 AM, Vaj wrote: You can download a nice version in PDF format at: Oops. Should have typed: http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/bs_00.html Also: http://www.brahmasutra.iitk.ac.in/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- crukstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- crukstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 21, 2005, at 1:40 PM, Paul Mason wrote: And then, as the years passed, MMY's tongue became completely unbridled. Which is why it is becoming more and more evident that he doesn't really realise that much. The only evidence I ever heard of MMY, which seemed to verify that he was in CC, was John Gray's testimony that he would dictate to MMY while his body was asleep and snoring. This would seem to verify the classical description of CC. In this sense, CC, is very verifiable (e.g. the Menninger Institute). That would be pretty convincing. Why? The mind stops working in sleep. Consciousness and the mind are to separate things entirely. -Peter That's right. When the body goes to sleep the body mind stops working, but when awareness of or as being is not overshadowed by identification as the body, then, when the body sleeps...awareness continues. For those who may ask what it is that is aware, just substitute knowing for awareness and Being for 'it'. Being knows. When the body awakes then thinking with the body mind can continue. If people think that pure consciousness has anything to do with awareness of specific objects,they are completely wrong. To think that witnessing of sleep means that you have consciousness, through the gross senses, of what is occuring around the body when you sleep means you don't understand sleep and witnessing. -Peter Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
maintain rolpa - Original Message - From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic Hi Tom:On Mar 21, 2005, at 6:49 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: It appears we have a slight communication problem so I will try and make myself clearer. In my comment above when the lady commented on her experience of Infinite Mind, she never said she witnessed that she was Infinite mind. To my understanding witnessing is the primary means of knowing one is in CC. One witnesses all things happening from an undisturbed state. She did not say she witnessed, she said quite clearly and maybe I didn't make it clear that she knew she was infinite mind. Knowing is not witnessing. Knowing is having them one in her understanding which seems to fulfill your definition of Brahman above. She was Infinite mind in which finite mind also existed as part of her wholeness both being available and both making up the entire wholeness she is. The understanding this experience is wholeness is a major criteria of the reality of Brahman. Inside this wholeness resides all creation.I listened to her--I assume it's the same women--she described the dawning of the state (Rick will remember if she was there when I was)--and I got then that she was describing CC. From my perspective, "infinite mind" is "mahat". I did have the sense that she was wakeful (of course it would be impossible for me to say whether that was permanent of not). I'm not sure why everyone is all the sudden talking of UC/BC. I'm just not getting that."Knowing" will always presume a "Knower" and some medium in between. But this could be a semantic misunderstanding on my part.I think "witnessing" may be a bad term in this case and that's the sticker.Lastly, what disturbs me is that it doesn't all appear new. It's a nice and convincing rearrangement of all the old TM buzzwords. There's little new. I expect the description to be as fresh and new as anything could be. But it's presented in the jargon and conditioned wording of TM. Why is it not fresh and new?I can feel whole or wholeness but it does not seem like Grand Unification to me (to use TM jargon).Does *she* feel she is in BC? Or do others feel she is in BC? I did find her very convincing and "right on".To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Does this mean the witnessing sleep standard is bogus?Alex--We're all in unity because it's all one. It's whether one is awake that awareness of unity is present. Because many in unity want to sleep, so even in unity we must awaken to unity so yes one must be a witness to the bardo of sleep and dream, and so on, because one is anyway, so to be unaware is to be ignorant and to be aware is to be awakened. To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
On Mar 21, 2005, at 7:12 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: Look at 52 through 55 and this is the only place it says that any sutra produces the Big E. All the other sutras are for practice and for the sidhi disclosed. The last sutra says Big E is the result of this sutra 52. The Big E in the samkhya and Yoga-sutra tradition refers to CC: jivanmukta (liberated while still alive)--not really the Big E (UC/BC in your tradition). Akasha posted some nice views from Vaishnavite POV's which highlight this issue nicely. And really Shankara's commentary on the Badarayana Sutra really goes into this. If you are following the CC/GC/UC model, grokking this text is important, it would make a great companion on your path. You might like to also check out other comments as these highlight views on CC and GC. It's great stuff: a very sympathetic vibration for those on the path or verifying the Fruit (their realization). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
On Mar 21, 2005, at 7:30 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: Tom T responds: Every description that you are using as an indicator of someone in Unity is something that happens in the relative. Relative for you, not for them: All is one The understanding that I keep harping about is not in the relative. The point is the true state of UC has some extraordinary characteristics. Some of these are even observable to unawakened people. It is beyond the relative. It is the understanding that arises from Self knowing Self. That understanding happened in the lively portion of the absolute. I'm not sure what lively portion means--that is TM lingo. To truly know what you mean it would be good to know the Sanskrit (I realize that's probably a lot to ask). This is a problem, when we learn english buzzwords divorced from their primary source. It has nothing to do with what one can or cannot do in the relative. Again, to someone in unity, it ain't relative, all-is-one. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Hi Tom: On Mar 21, 2005, at 8:07 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: I can only respond with all of the various things I have posted on this subject. You are free to hold your POV and I am free to experience my understandings. My writings are from my experience. That much I am sure and that is the only way I know how to respond. Tom T Are you talking from your experience of another person (this woman you have mentioned) or from your experience of what she has conveyed to you or your own awareness--or both g. Pardon my confusion! -V. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rudra_joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know because it was my acid trips both good and bad that woke me up when I was a kid, to CC. The bad experiences were so horrific that my mind stepped back and witnessed them. Are you saying your mind, in background mode, witnessed these things? And that you equate that with CC? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
No, I mean that when my mind was going haywire making all sorts of intrepid connections that my awareness became still inside and disengaged from the process of my mind and I was able to merely watch the arising of thought, the relative and changing phenomenon, and forever since my mind has had a still center, which I developed through 20 years of various spiritual practices. - Original Message - From: akasha_108 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 9:54 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "rudra_joe" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote:I know because it was my acid trips both good and bad that woke me upwhen I was a kid, to CC. The bad experiences were so horrific that mymind stepped back and witnessed them. Are you saying your mind, in background mode, witnessed these things?And that you equate that with CC?To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Maybe its semantics, but if you are watching thoughts, it appears this experience is different from something outside the mind experiencing/knowing something outside the mind. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rudra_joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, I mean that when my mind was going haywire making all sorts of intrepid connections that my awareness became still inside and disengaged from the process of my mind and I was able to merely watch the arising of thought, the relative and changing phenomenon, and forever since my mind has had a still center, which I developed through 20 years of various spiritual practices. - Original Message - From: akasha_108 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 9:54 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rudra_joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know because it was my acid trips both good and bad that woke me up when I was a kid, to CC. The bad experiences were so horrific that my mind stepped back and witnessed them. Are you saying your mind, in background mode, witnessed these things? And that you equate that with CC? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- crukstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- crukstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 21, 2005, at 1:40 PM, Paul Mason wrote: And then, as the years passed, MMY's tongue became completely unbridled. Which is why it is becoming more and more evident that he doesn't really realise that much. The only evidence I ever heard of MMY, which seemed to verify that he was in CC, was John Gray's testimony that he would dictate to MMY while his body was asleep and snoring. This would seem to verify the classical description of CC. In this sense, CC, is very verifiable (e.g. the Menninger Institute). That would be pretty convincing. Why? The mind stops working in sleep. Consciousness and the mind are to separate things entirely. -Peter That's right. When the body goes to sleep the body mind stops working, but when awareness of or as being is not overshadowed by identification as the body, then, when the body sleeps...awareness continues. For those who may ask what it is that is aware, just substitute knowing for awareness and Being for 'it'. Being knows. When the body awakes then thinking with the body mind can continue. If people think that pure consciousness has anything to do with awareness of specific objects,they are completely wrong. To think that witnessing of sleep means that you have consciousness, through the gross senses, of what is occuring around the body when you sleep means you don't understand sleep and witnessing. -Peter Didn't say that one has consciousness through the gross senses while asleep. I said that when awareness as or of Being is not overshadowed by identification with the body, then when the body sleeps, awareness continues. I did not say that in sleep the personality is saying hey!, look at this I'm sleeping and I am aware of it. I said awareness continues. Isn't the progression or evolution or growth of the body bound experience of awareness the expansion of this awareness? If everything is Being, if everything truly is just a manifestation of Being then the individual is also Being. So individual growth of awareness is Being waking up to it's true nature. In the beginning Being expressed as an individual is aware only 'as' an individual, awareness expanding becomes aware 'of' Being and this awareness of Being progresses until ultimately individual Being is only aware as Being and the return to wholeness is complete. P. 151 MMY Gita Commentary The word 'when' is very important. It indicates that one is said to be of 'steady intellect' only when one has gained transcendental consciousness, the state of separation from activity; or when one has gained cosmic consciousness, the state where one naturally maintains Self-consciousness even together with consciousness of the waking, dreaming or sleeping states, and where the Self, or Being, remains unshadowed by any experience whatsoever. So I say that if ones most simple awareness, that I would say is present in everyone reading this, seems to be turned off throughout the period when the body is asleep, then the ability to maintain Self-consciousness or Being has been overshadowed by the body sleeping. It wasn't continuous through waking, dreaming or sleeping states. Is Being not omnipresent? Isn't waking up, the process of never losing awareness of Being until absolutely nothing can overshadow Self? Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
On Mar 21, 2005, at 10:19 PM, akasha_108 wrote: Yes, I am having similar difficulty. Particularly when Tom describes it as Consciousness experiencing Consciousness. Vaj writes: Yeah. Mahat or Infinite Mind is the witnesser. Tom T: Patanjali chapter 4 Enlightenment (Alistair Shearer translation) #18 But the mind itself is always experienced because it is witnessed by the unchanging Self. #19 The mind does not shine by its own light. It too is an object, illumined by the Self. #20 Not being self-luminous, the mind cannot be aware of its object and itself at the same time. #21 Nor is the mind illumined by another more subtle mind, for that would imply the absurdity of an infinite series of minds, and the resulting confusion of memories. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Tom T comments interspersed Tom T Snipped: The understanding this experience is wholeness is a major criteria of the reality of Brahman. Inside this wholeness resides all creation. Vaj writes: I listened to her--I assume it's the same women--she described the dawning of the state (Rick will remember if she was there when I was)--and I got then that she was describing CC. From my perspective, infinite mind is mahat. Tom T responds: Well I can't remember and we do have about 6 awake ladies present so I am not sure which was present when you called in. Vaj continues: I did have the sense that she was wakeful (of course it would be impossible for me to say whether that was permanent of not). Tom T: Yes Vaj writes: I'm not sure why everyone is all the sudden talking of UC/BC. I'm just not getting that. Tom T : Why not talk about it if it is happening? After all it has only been 35 years or so for most of the folks in FF. Just because it doesn't fit your criteria does not mean that it is not happening big time in this little town. Vaj: Knowing will always presume a Knower and some medium in between. But this could be a semantic misunderstanding on my part. Tom T: When the Knowing is Known by the ultimate Knower there is no where left to go. This is the one and only Knower knowing its creation through its own Self. From the totality of creation to point value it is all Knower and Knower can know through the totality and the point value simutaneously. All the ocean in a drop. Same. Vah I think witnessing may be a bad term in this case and that's the sticker. Lastly, what disturbs me is that it doesn't all appear new. It's a nice and convincing rearrangement of all the old TM buzzwords. There's little new. I expect the description to be as fresh and new as anything could be. But it's presented in the jargon and conditioned wording of TM. Why is it not fresh and new? Tom T: Why reinvent a vocabulary when we have a common one that we all know and we all have the same definition for all the words so there is no misunderstanding. The key word here is EXPECT. Well it ain't what you expect it is, but what it is. In person it is always fresh and new. It is the ever present moment moving on and being entirely new with each word. Vaj writes: I can feel whole or wholeness but it does not seem like Grand Unification to me (to use TM jargon). Does *she* feel she is in BC? Or do others feel she is in BC? I did find her very convincing and right on. Tom T: Since you missed her unfolding I can only synopsize it by saying she had been unfolding for months and the night you tuned in was after she had the full understanding of what had transpired. She is very aware of the silence that is underneath every thing and also the nothing that seems to appear under that. She also has had the transformation of understanding that this apparent nothingness is also at the same time everything and I think is just a tad beyond what you have been quoting from scripture. That is also my experience just so there is no confusion. The apparent emptiness of nothing beyond all the steps actually is ultimately know to be everything. Again, that is my experience. Tom T To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
On Mar 22, 2005, at 4:00 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: Everything I write is from my own experience sorry that didn't come through. OK. No I thought you might be saying you were in Unity, but I wasn't certain. OK. So far you have not answered my question is the stuff you are posting from your experience or from various scriptures as it seems. Some is my own, some is scriptural authority. I don't see how you can miss the short sentence on line 3 above so maybe I will repeat it. My writings are from my experience. OK. Got it. ;-) I am not the Scholar you are so forgive me if I don't quote scripture very much other than Patanjali and yes I appreciate in your view he is of inferior quality so we are left where we are. I don't recall ever saying Patanjali was inferior. I think Patanjali was one of the most brilliant people that ever lived! It just presents a different POV that's all. Shankara compares him from the POV of Unity. And I feel that is helpful to all of us. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
on 3/22/05 3:44 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 22, 2005, at 4:00 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: Everything I write is from my own experience sorry that didn't come through. OK. No I thought you might be saying you were in Unity, but I wasn't certain. OK. He is saying that. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
On Mar 22, 2005, at 5:43 PM, Rick Archer wrote: He is saying that. Yes I know. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Fresh comments below: Tom Traynor wrote: [Brahman consciousness] is not an experience, it is an understanding that needs no Master. The understanding is complete in an of itself. No Master needed as the knowledge in the understanding is complete in and of itself. Absolute self-verification which is the hallmark of this understanding, as it is beyond experience. Patrick Gilliam Writes: Tom, I understood the awakening you describe to be disorienting, necessitating a mahavakya or confirmation from a master. Are you saying (a) Brahman never requires a master's confirmation, (b) Brahmin only requires a master's confirmation sometimes, or (c) some other thing? Tom T again: Hanging around awake people seems to help get the understanding cooking but bottom line they will get it by themselves anyway. One lady in our group described it as follows: I was infinite mind and I was looking at my finite mind and I knew that my finite mind was never going to understand what had happened in a million years. That is the paradox that is the hallmark of this understanding. Nothing has changed and yet everything has changed. It is a one degree shift but it is now an understanding from the vantage point of Self understanding Self and little self is still where it has always been wondering What Happened?. Having a Master around is going to help this understanding flower easier but I don't view it as absolutely essential. On the other hand for some that may be the only way it is going to happen. There are no hard rules in a world of 6 billion possibilities. Go find some awake people and hang out with them and see what happens. Tom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
On Mar 21, 2005, at 12:52 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: I was infinite mind and I was looking at my finite mind and I knew that my finite mind was never going to understand what had happened in a million years. That is the paradox that is the hallmark of this understanding. Nothing has changed and yet everything has changed. Perfect description of turiyatita/CC ! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fresh comments below: Tom Traynor wrote: [Brahman consciousness] is not an experience, it is an understanding that needs no Master. The understanding is complete in an of itself. No Master needed as the knowledge in the understanding is complete in and of itself. Absolute self-verification which is the hallmark of this understanding, as it is beyond experience. Patrick Gilliam Writes: Tom, I understood the awakening you describe to be disorienting, necessitating a mahavakya or confirmation from a master. Are you saying (a) Brahman never requires a master's confirmation, (b) Brahmin only requires a master's confirmation sometimes, or (c) some other thing? Tom T again: Hanging around awake people seems to help get the understanding cooking but bottom line they will get it by themselves anyway. One lady in our group described it as follows: I was infinite mind and I was looking at my finite mind and I knew that my finite mind was never going to understand what had happened in a million years. That is the paradox that is the hallmark of this understanding. Nothing has changed and yet everything has changed. It is a one degree shift but it is now an understanding from the vantage point of Self understanding Self and little self is still where it has always been wondering What Happened?. Having a Master around is going to help this understanding flower easier but I don't view it as absolutely essential. On the other hand for some that may be the only way it is going to happen. There are no hard rules in a world of 6 billion possibilities. Go find some awake people and hang out with them and see what happens. Tom Now if we only had some way of determining, while not awake to/in Brahmin consciousness, whether another is awake to/in Brahmin consciousness. So many people on this list at one time thought MMY was awake and now they see him as a crook and a swindler. It's all so hilarious, isn't it? Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
On Mar 21, 2005, at 1:27 PM, crukstrom wrote: Now if we only had some way of determining, while not awake to/in Brahmin consciousness, whether another is awake to/in Brahmin consciousness. So many people on this list at one time thought MMY was awake and now they see him as a crook and a swindler. It's all so hilarious, isn't it? It would be a relatively straight foreword procedure to verify Brahmi chetana. If they are in Brahman consciousness, then they can embody nama-rupa, name-and-form, since they have overthrown duality. All we need is a actual Sanskrit text or recorded recitation of Badarayana's sutras. All they will need to do is utter the Sanskrit phrase or place their awareness on it for them to embody this vidya (cognize the text from it's source). Then they can give a commentary which refutes their darshana of Unity against the Samkhya (CC) darshana and the Bhagavata/Panchavrata View (GC) just as Badarayana did and Shankara comments on (i.e. Adhyaya 2). It would be nice to hear their explanation of Superimposition, Adhyasa, since that is what Badarayana begins with. Then it would be easy to compare their commentary to Shankara's, since he derives a monist, Unity View, from Badarayana (while others got a dvaita, or dualist View from it). Since they would be presenting their darshana, their POV from the perspective of the *Fruit* (Phala, the actual result of being in Brahman consciousness), it might be worthwhile to emphasize the last adhyaya, Phala. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Now if we only had some way of determining, while not awake to/in Brahmin consciousness, whether another is awake to/in Brahmin consciousness. So many people on this list at one time thought MMY was awake and now they see him as a crook and a swindler. It's all so hilarious, isn't it? Rick Carlstrom Possibly not. MMY is a particularly slippery guy. Osho put it like this:- 'All he can do when you ask him relevant questions is giggle. In fact, I will call him Swami Gigglananda, that will fit him perfectly. That giggling is not something respectable, it is really a strategy to avoid questions. He cannot answer any question. And then, as the years passed, MMY's tongue became completely unbridled. Which is why it is becoming more and more evident that he doesn't really realise that much. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 21, 2005, at 12:52 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: I was infinite mind and I was looking at my finite mind and I knew that my finite mind was never going to understand what had happened in a million years. That is the paradox that is the hallmark of this understanding. Nothing has changed and yet everything has changed. Perfect description of turiyatita/CC ! When do they become one? Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
On Mar 21, 2005, at 1:41 PM, crukstrom wrote: When do they become one? In the Vedantic model, in Brahmi chetana. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 21, 2005, at 1:40 PM, Paul Mason wrote: And then, as the years passed, MMY's tongue became completely unbridled. Which is why it is becoming more and more evident that he doesn't really realise that much. The only evidence I ever heard of MMY, which seemed to verify that he was in CC, was John Gray's testimony that he would dictate to MMY while his body was asleep and snoring. This would seem to verify the classical description of CC. In this sense, CC, is very verifiable (e.g. the Menninger Institute). That would be pretty convincing. Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
When the kid observed that king had no clothes on, were you there asking 'And you are an authority?' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- crukstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 21, 2005, at 1:40 PM, Paul Mason wrote: And then, as the years passed, MMY's tongue became completely unbridled. Which is why it is becoming more and more evident that he doesn't really realise that much. The only evidence I ever heard of MMY, which seemed to verify that he was in CC, was John Gray's testimony that he would dictate to MMY while his body was asleep and snoring. This would seem to verify the classical description of CC. In this sense, CC, is very verifiable (e.g. the Menninger Institute). That would be pretty convincing. Why? The mind stops working in sleep. Consciousness and the mind are to separate things entirely. -Peter Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fresh comments below: Tom Traynor wrote: [Brahman consciousness] is not an experience, it is an understanding that needs no Master. The understanding is complete in an of itself. No Master needed as the knowledge in the understanding is complete in and of itself. Absolute self-verification which is the hallmark of this understanding, as it is beyond experience. Patrick Gilliam Writes: Tom, I understood the awakening you describe to be disorienting, necessitating a mahavakya or confirmation from a master. Are you saying (a) Brahman never requires a master's confirmation, (b) Brahmin only requires a master's confirmation sometimes, or (c) some other thing? Tom T again: Hanging around awake people seems to help get the understanding cooking but bottom line they will get it by themselves anyway. One lady in our group described it as follows: I was infinite mind and I was looking at my finite mind and I knew that my finite mind was never going to understand what had happened in a million years. That is the paradox that is the hallmark of this understanding. Nothing has changed and yet everything has changed. It is a one degree shift but it is now an understanding from the vantage point of Self understanding Self and little self is still where it has always been wondering What Happened?. Having a Master around is going to help this understanding flower easier but I don't view it as absolutely essential. On the other hand for some that may be the only way it is going to happen. There are no hard rules in a world of 6 billion possibilities. Go find some awake people and hang out with them and see what happens. Tom The bottom falls out! Ahhh!!! -Peter To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Dear Mr Mason If you really believe what you are writing - why do you do it? Why do you keep coming back? You are human, right? You have the free will to choose to walk away and have a life.. Why can't you let go? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now if we only had some way of determining, while not awake to/in Brahmin consciousness, whether another is awake to/in Brahmin consciousness. So many people on this list at one time thought MMY was awake and now they see him as a crook and a swindler. It's all so hilarious, isn't it? Rick Carlstrom Possibly not. MMY is a particularly slippery guy. Osho put it like this:- 'All he can do when you ask him relevant questions is giggle. In fact, I will call him Swami Gigglananda, that will fit him perfectly. That giggling is not something respectable, it is really a strategy to avoid questions. He cannot answer any question. And then, as the years passed, MMY's tongue became completely unbridled. Which is why it is becoming more and more evident that he doesn't really realise that much. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 21, 2005, at 1:27 PM, crukstrom wrote: Now if we only had some way of determining, while not awake to/in Brahmin consciousness, whether another is awake to/in Brahmin consciousness. So many people on this list at one time thought MMY was awake and now they see him as a crook and a swindler. It's all so hilarious, isn't it? It would be a relatively straight foreword procedure to verify Brahmi chetana. If they are in Brahman consciousness, then they can embody nama-rupa, name-and-form, since they have overthrown duality. All we need is a actual Sanskrit text or recorded recitation of Badarayana's sutras. All they will need to do is utter the Sanskrit phrase or place their awareness on it for them to embody this vidya (cognize the text from it's source). Then they can give a commentary which refutes their darshana of Unity against the Samkhya (CC) darshana and the Bhagavata/Panchavrata View (GC) just as Badarayana did and Shankara comments on (i.e. Adhyaya 2). It would be nice to hear their explanation of Superimposition, Adhyasa, since that is what Badarayana begins with. Then it would be easy to compare their commentary to Shankara's, since he derives a monist, Unity View, from Badarayana (while others got a dvaita, or dualist View from it). Since they would be presenting their darshana, their POV from the perspective of the *Fruit* (Phala, the actual result of being in Brahman consciousness), it might be worthwhile to emphasize the last adhyaya, Phala. So we should be able to give Tom the actual Sanskrit text or recorded recitation of Badarayana's sutras and by him place his awareness on it, he will embody this vidya (cognize the text from it's source). Then he can give a commentary which refutes their darshana of Unity against the Samkhya (CC) darshana and the Bhagavata/Panchavrata View (GC) just as Badarayana did and Shankara comments on (i.e. Adhyaya 2). And we can hear his explanation of Superimposition, Adhyasa, since that is what Badarayana begins with. Would there be any other manifestations of abilites-- I think that you mentioned placing hand through physical objects, etc. in a prior post. And then the same process for the others who understand / live Brahaman. How about it? Who has the text? Are you up for it Tom? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
of probably the only saint they ever came across. What a fraud. In this context it is legitime to question the motifs for Paul Masons publishings. I am making no claims for Osho, though I find this criticism of MMY interesting, that he felt he used giggling as a substitute for proper answers. Why you should drag anyone else into the equation is a mystery to me. What have the Hare Krshna's or Benjamin Creme got to do with practised evasion. YOu can question my motives all you wish. But when the emperor wore his birthday suit it was obvious to many, if not to all. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
From: crukstrom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:49 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 21, 2005, at 1:40 PM, Paul Mason wrote: And then, as the years passed, MMY's tongue became completely unbridled. Which is why it is becoming more and more evident that he doesn't really realise that much. The only evidence I ever heard of MMY, which seemed to verify that he was in CC, was John Gray's testimony that he would dictate to MMY while his body was asleep and snoring. This would seem to verify the classical description of CC. In this sense, CC, is very verifiable (e.g. the Menninger Institute). That would be pretty convincing. Rick Carlstrom --- Rick, He could fake snoring/sleeping. -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When the kid observed that king had no clothes on, were you there asking 'And you are an authority?' To determine whether the emperor was wearing clothes or not, the kid only needed the sense of sight provided by eyes. To determine MMY's state of awareness one needs to be able to see into his consciousness. Can you do that? Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, crukstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To determine MMY's state of awareness one needs to be able to see into his consciousness. Can you do that? Rick Carlstrom In the flower, in the sky, in the orange, in the table, in the dog, in the driveway, in the oak tree,in the neigbor, in the sun, in the carpet, in the spider? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, crukstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When the kid observed that king had no clothes on, were you there asking 'And you are an authority?' To determine whether the emperor was wearing clothes or not, the kid only needed the sense of sight provided by eyes. To determine MMY's state of awareness one needs to be able to see into his consciousness. Can you do that? Rick Carlstrom My experience shows me the bij mantras seem to bring light! Expressing my opinion about MMY doesn't diminish the light I find inside. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mr Mason If you really believe what you are writing - why do you do it? Why do you keep coming back? You are human, right? You have the free will to choose to walk away and have a life.. Why can't you let go? My experience shows me the bij mantras seem to bring light! Expressing my opinion about MMY doesn't diminish the light I find inside. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
From: Paul Mason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 1:53 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic When the kid observed that king had no clothes on, were you there asking 'And you are an authority?' --- Paul, Excellent analogy. Lets have some more fun: Why yes, I believe one must be a licensed fashion designer in order to render an authoritative opinion on whether a person is clothed or naked. And to render an expert opinion on whether the defendant is dodging questions, Im sure the court would require the qualification of at least an audio engineer and possibly an English professor or speech therapist. -Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
So many people on this list at one time thought MMY was awake and now they see him as a crook and a swindler. It's all so hilarious, isn't it?Rick Carlstrom---It is since I was spoutin it three years ago. To a rather whacked tune. But I changed because I went to Kalachakra and then got a job on Bourbon street the next day at a steakhouse and it was also really whack. So now I just can't worry about any of it. It must come to me here in NOLA. Actually it has. I had prayer flags up in my yard and it turned out that a growing Buddhist center was just four blocks from my house, and then one day there was a flyer in the mud and I picked it up and it was for thisteacher Ontul Rinpoche who I took refuge with. Actually TM came to me in Los Angeles when I was a kid, and so it goes. What wonderful kind of karma, or not, is that? I don't think we Americans have much to have to explain in terms of government or ideals except that the people in the government are gonna have to answer for their own damnshit. We have attracted the rest of the world here. You see, they all want a piece of Babylon Mon. Now I say just don worry bout it... see yas later when there's another thousand messages. To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Much more comments below: Tom T I was infinite mind and I was looking at my finite mind and I knew that my finite mind was never going to understand what had happened in a million years. That is the paradox that is the hallmark of this understanding. Nothing has changed and yet everything has changed. Vaj Perfect description of turiyatita/CC ! crukstrom wrote: When do they become one? Vaj: In the Vedantic model, in Brahmi chetana. Tom T: It appears we have a slight communication problem so I will try and make myself clearer. In my comment above when the lady commented on her experience of Infinite Mind, she never said she witnessed that she was Infinite mind. To my understanding witnessing is the primary means of knowing one is in CC. One witnesses all things happening from an undisturbed state. She did not say she witnessed, she said quite clearly and maybe I didn't make it clear that she knew she was infinite mind. Knowing is not witnessing. Knowing is having them one in her understanding which seems to fulfill your definition of Brahman above. She was Infinite mind in which finite mind also existed as part of her wholeness both being available and both making up the entire wholeness she is. The understanding this experience is wholeness is a major criteria of the reality of Brahman. Inside this wholeness resides all creation. Tom T To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
More Tom T comments on Stealth Sutra at the bottom: Tom T: The true reason for the sutras was to wake you up. The levitation gig was to give the ego a reason to continue the practice long enough to finish the wake up process, which was built into the practice.). Vaj: I understand what you are saying. It would be helpful to know the number of the post to specifically comment on that one. Understand though, that samkhya and the yoga-sutras--and awakening a la the yoga-sutra is a dualistic awakening. That is, it deals with CC/turiyatita. That's not to say jumping into any other state couldn't happen, of course anything is *possible*. It's just that the intent of the yoga-sutra, of which the TM-Sidhi program represents a watered down version, is to provide a samkhya-style realization: turiyatita. In effect you are saying MMY has distorted the tradition to fool us using our ahamkara/egos as carrots? Tom T: Stealth Sutra details: On the other hand if we look at the last and final sutra in chapter 3 (Expansion) we arrive at sutra 52 which states From Sanyama on moments and their succession, the finest discriminative knowledge is born. Sutra 53. This enables us to distinguish between two objects that are to all appearances identical. Sutra 54: Knowledge born of the finest discrimination takes us to the farthest shore. Sutra 55: And when the translucent intellect is as pure as the Self, there is Enlightenment. Look at 52 through 55 and this is the only place it says that any sutra produces the Big E. All the other sutras are for practice and for the sidhi disclosed. The last sutra says Big E is the result of this sutra 52. Actually sutra 52 was installed at the time we all learned the sidhis. We were beat over the head with the necessity to do a certain number of reps in a bound amount of time. MMY gave you sutra 52 to practice without telling you so. There is a part of every mind that can track time no matter what and if you don't think so remember all the time you ended your meditation at exactly 20 mins. The instruction to do a finite number of reps in a certain time while you were doing the sidhi prescribed was to do #52 in total innocence. So you have been doing this practice as prescribed by MMY with out knowing it. Best way to hide something is right under your nose in plain sight. Enjoy PS: This is not experienced as a watered down version of the Big E so I would like to know if that is your personal experience or from some text and if the latter can you quote chapter and verse. Tom T To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Tom T comments interspersed Akasha 108 writes: Mind / body / reflections that I know and love that allude to knowing infinite mind, though discrete and the opposite of showy, do exhibit some amazing capabilities at times that would be consistent with being infinite mind. Can this lady, or perhaps your self, give examples of how being infinite mind manifested in their/your lives in some (awesomely) special knowledge, insight or coordination, apparent or communicatable to others? Tom T: You know the damn thing is so flippin ordinary that it doesn't seem anything other than who and what you are. In her case she was sharing an incident about one of her children and she didn't need to finish, as I knew the entire story. I was able to tell her the ending she didn't know, and I shared with her an insight into a next step that she was unaware needed to happen. If that qualifies maybe that is the best I can do. Akasha 108 writes: If the response is along the lines that the knowledge of being infinite mind is self-revealing, self-sufficient and never explainable to mere finite minds, then I guess thats what it is. Though some might wonder, in some cases, if delusion is involved -- like the earlier discussion of when can one know if the claim of god talked to me is valid. A danger could be that some might make such claims falsely and delude others. The TMO community has certainly seen such charlatans over the years. Tom T; What seems to be apparent is that the actual experiences had been unfolding for at least a year and yet there was no complete understanding. The last step was to be around some awake people and then the Understanding was complete. Once this lady got the Understanding then it all fell into place and she saw it all as the perfection and she now rests in absolute certainty while still living the paradox of a typical turbulent life in FF. That is the underlying paradox, nothing in life has changed and everything has changed. Akash 108: It would seem that if one is infinite mind, the cosmic computer as some refer to it, there could be some practical manifestions of that. Not cheap parlor tricks, but some reflection of infinite mind in day to day life. I have seen it in action in some. So I know it can be done. Any examples from this lady? Tom T: At the present time I have nothing to report but I will ask and get back in the next week or so. Thanks for your genuine interest. I wish I had better answers. Tom T To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Vaj writes: A View--your inner darshana, your POV shouldn't be thought of as a meditational experience. It is your new horizon, your new world, your cosmos and cosmology. It sounds to me as if you are describing CC, not BC/UC. While I do know that there is a state without need of verification, what my teacher has explained is that you gain some certainty of what the darshana of unity is by an introduction into that state. Once you get it there is a further process that goes on until you reach the base (of reality). It seems to me, I am guessing, this is latest fashion as forms of neo-advaita become more widespread. People hear descriptions and slowly convince themselves. Perhaps I'm wrong, maybe there are living Buddhas living in Fairfield. But I have seen this before, this is not new to me, people claiming CC, GC or UC/BC or beyond. I've been around. Again I think what you are describing is having gained certainty as to the View, not ultimate realization. Tom T: I can only respond with all of the various things I have posted on this subject. You are free to hold your POV and I am free to experience my understandings. My writings are from my experience. That much I am sure and that is the only way I know how to respond. Tom T To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Hi Tom: On Mar 21, 2005, at 6:49 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: It appears we have a slight communication problem so I will try and make myself clearer. In my comment above when the lady commented on her experience of Infinite Mind, she never said she witnessed that she was Infinite mind. To my understanding witnessing is the primary means of knowing one is in CC. One witnesses all things happening from an undisturbed state. She did not say she witnessed, she said quite clearly and maybe I didn't make it clear that she knew she was infinite mind. Knowing is not witnessing. Knowing is having them one in her understanding which seems to fulfill your definition of Brahman above. She was Infinite mind in which finite mind also existed as part of her wholeness both being available and both making up the entire wholeness she is. The understanding this experience is wholeness is a major criteria of the reality of Brahman. Inside this wholeness resides all creation. I listened to her--I assume it's the same women--she described the dawning of the state (Rick will remember if she was there when I was)--and I got then that she was describing CC. From my perspective, infinite mind is mahat. I did have the sense that she was wakeful (of course it would be impossible for me to say whether that was permanent of not). I'm not sure why everyone is all the sudden talking of UC/BC. I'm just not getting that. Knowing will always presume a Knower and some medium in between. But this could be a semantic misunderstanding on my part. I think witnessing may be a bad term in this case and that's the sticker. Lastly, what disturbs me is that it doesn't all appear new. It's a nice and convincing rearrangement of all the old TM buzzwords. There's little new. I expect the description to be as fresh and new as anything could be. But it's presented in the jargon and conditioned wording of TM. Why is it not fresh and new? I can feel whole or wholeness but it does not seem like Grand Unification to me (to use TM jargon). Does *she* feel she is in BC? Or do others feel she is in BC? I did find her very convincing and right on. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure why everyone is all the sudden talking of UC/BC. I'm just not getting that. Yes, I am having similar difficulty. Particularly when Tom describes it as Consciousness experiencing Consciousness. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
The Brahma Sutras by Badarayana (BS). Everyone has
it. It's boring and stupid. It also has lots of assumptions that it wants
you to take for granted like the soul coming from the moon and dripping into a
plant and then the plant being eaten and that being how a soul enters the
mother. Yeah, maybe for a cow. You want me to refute this?
Mooo.
Rather than BS I'm rather fond of the story about
the chef and the abbot where one day the abbot of the monestary dies and a new
one is needed so everyone gathers together and they asked who is the wisest
here? Apparently only the chef had people's respects as being wise so two
other monks from neighboring monestaries came to argue about wisdom. So the
question to answer was what is anothername for a vase? So the two monks
started arguing about the name of the vase, but neither one could find another
word for it, so they called the chef in and asked him do you know another name
for a vase? And the chef picked the vase up and dropped it.
- Original Message -
From:
anonymousff
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:22
PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception
(was Re: soma New Vedic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote:
On Mar 21, 2005, at 1:27 PM, crukstrom wrote:
Now if we only had some way of determining, while not awake to/in
Brahmin consciousness, whether another is awake to/in Brahmin
consciousness. So many people on this list at one time thought MMY
was awake and now they see him as a crook and a swindler. It's
all so hilarious, isn't it? It would be a
relatively straight foreword procedure to verify Brahmi
chetana. If they are in Brahman consciousness, then they can
embody nama-rupa, name-and-form, since they have overthrown duality.
All we need is a actual Sanskrit text or recorded recitation of
Badarayana's sutras. All they will need to do is utter the Sanskrit
phrase or place their awareness on it for them to embody this vidya
("cognize" the text from it's source). Then they can
give a commentary which refutes their darshana of Unity against the
Samkhya (CC) darshana and the Bhagavata/Panchavrata View (GC) just as
Badarayana did and Shankara comments on (i.e. Adhyaya 2). It would be
nice to hear their explanation of Superimposition, Adhyasa, since
that is what Badarayana begins with. Then it would be easy to
compare their commentary to Shankara's, since he derives a monist,
Unity View, from Badarayana (while others got a dvaita, or dualist
View from it). Since they would be presenting their darshana,
their POV from the perspective of the *Fruit* (Phala, the actual
result of being in Brahman consciousness), it might be worthwhile to
emphasize the last adhyaya, Phala.So we should be able to
give Tom the actual Sanskrit text or recordedrecitation of Badarayana's
sutras and by him place his awareness onit, he will embody this vidya
("cognize" the text from it's source).Then he can give a commentary which
refutes their darshana of Unityagainst the Samkhya (CC) darshana and the
Bhagavata/Panchavrata View(GC) just as Badarayana did and Shankara
comments on (i.e. Adhyaya 2).And we can hear his explanation of
Superimposition, Adhyasa, sincethat is what Badarayana begins
with.Would there be any other "manifestations" of abilites-- I think
thatyou mentioned placing hand through physical objects, etc. in a prior
post.And then the same process for the others who "understand" / live
Brahaman.How about it? Who has the text? Are you up for it
Tom?To subscribe, send a
message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and
click 'Join This Group!'
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[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Much more comments below: Tom T I was infinite mind and I was looking at my finite mind and I knew that my finite mind was never going to understand what had happened in a million years. That is the paradox that is the hallmark of this understanding. Nothing has changed and yet everything has changed. Vaj Perfect description of turiyatita/CC ! crukstrom wrote: When do they become one? Vaj: In the Vedantic model, in Brahmi chetana. Tom T: It appears we have a slight communication problem so I will try and make myself clearer. In my comment above when the lady commented on her experience of Infinite Mind, she never said she witnessed that she was Infinite mind. To my understanding witnessing is the primary means of knowing one is in CC. One witnesses all things happening from an undisturbed state. She did not say she witnessed, she said quite clearly and maybe I didn't make it clear that she knew she was infinite mind. Knowing is not witnessing. Knowing is having them one in her understanding which seems to fulfill your definition of Brahman above. She was Infinite mind in which finite mind also existed as part of her wholeness both being available and both making up the entire wholeness she is. The understanding this experience is wholeness is a major criteria of the reality of Brahman. Inside this wholeness resides all creation. Tom T This is a good distinction. Knowing is different than thinking. Minds think, something else knows. Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, crukstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When the kid observed that king had no clothes on, were you there asking 'And you are an authority?' To determine whether the emperor was wearing clothes or not, the kid only needed the sense of sight provided by eyes. To determine MMY's state of awareness one needs to be able to see into his consciousness. Can you do that? Rick Carlstrom My experience shows me the bij mantras seem to bring light! Expressing my opinion about MMY doesn't diminish the light I find inside. Well that's brilliant but it doesn't explain how it is that you know what Maharishi is thinking. Rick Carlstrom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Tom Traynor wrote: [Brahman consciousness] is not an experience, it is an understanding that needs no Master. The understanding is complete in an of itself. No Master needed as the knowledge in the understanding is complete in and of itself. Absolute self-verification which is the hallmark of this understanding, as it is beyond experience. Tom, I understood the awakening you describe to be disorienting, necessitating a mahavakya or confirmation from a master. Are you saying (a) Brahman never requires a master's confirmation, (b) Brahmin only requires a master's confirmation sometimes, or (c) some other thing? Thanks. - Patrick Gillam To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
On Mar 16, 2005, at 3:07 AM, rudra_joe wrote: esus, people are so particular nowadays, most would have been happy with TC ten years back, now its BC or Rainbow body or bust. My how far we've come I seriously doubt there are TM-ers in BC. Call it the Robin Carlsen effect: you can say you are, you can believe you are; but *are* you? As soon as there are, we'll know, there will be a copyright symbol after it: Brahman Consciousness© bg>.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
On Mar 14, 2005, at 8:02 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: Well actually the Sidhi practice might lead to a minute or two in Unity and then the entire weight of the practice and many years of experience bounces one into Brahmin. I can't see UC as occurring without being able to cultivate practice with eyes and all senses open. We just weren't given the methods to do so, so you have to look elsewhere. Patanjali and the dualistic samkhya system is good for turiyatita, but not beyond (except in our imaginations). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Peter Sutphen writes: Interesting. The subject-object dynamics of the senses don't seem to remain the same as you move from gross to subtle. Do the senses project the objects of their experience? You can transcend with your eyes open thinking about this stuff! -Peter Tom T: The interesting initial experience of the wholeness of all creation is just that. Initial knowingness that there is just wholeness that is comprised totally of subject. On the other hand it is also easily known as subject. No problem sorting it all out. First all is known as subject and then is seen as subject appearing as object. Why? We live in and interact in a relative dualistic world. We need to function and not sit on the park bench like Eckhart Tolle did for three years until he got it sorted out. We were given the tools in our Sidhi practice. The objective was not to really learn how to fly but to be able to fully function once we woke up. Cool! Another master stroke by a true Master. If you knew the real reason would you have done it? Probably not, but the ego just loves the idea that I will fly. Tom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic Translation)
Peter Sutphen wrote: I agree with you that it is more than just produced in our bodies by we lame-ass yogis/yoginis. That's only one aspect of it. I've also experienced soma flowing/spraying into the environment through the senses. Almost like the sense was working in reverse. -Peter I've also experienced soma flowing/spraying into the environment through the senses. Almost like the sense was working in reverse. Instead of consciousness flowing out, as it were, to the objects of the senses, it was soma flowing out? Soma as reified consciousness? I 've always understood and experienced, to some degree, soma as the movement of consciousness or as you put it, reified consciousness. It seems to be the most refined or subtle aspect of the senses in experiencing objects. It produces overwhelming bliss when the I sense created through identification begins to shift towards subtler/sattvic bondage. -Peter Not challenging, but why do you equate these things with soma? Self-apparent? Ritam type knowledge? Seems like expereinces in 9th Mandala? Lectures where it was described this way? Personal working hypothesis? It just f*cking is? Or a smug, what, you don't know? :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
On Mar 14, 2005, at 1:50 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: We were given the tools in our Sidhi practice. The objective was not to really learn how to fly but to be able to fully function once we woke up. Cool! Another master stroke by a true Master. If you knew the real reason would you have done it? I had thought this before. But I later decided it was just a rationalization. But then I didn't have a lot of investment in the movement so it was easy to let that go. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
--- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 14, 2005, at 1:50 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: We were given the tools in our Sidhi practice. The objective was not to really learn how to fly but to be able to fully function once we woke up. Cool! Another master stroke by a true Master. If you knew the real reason would you have done it? I had thought this before. But I later decided it was just a rationalization. But then I didn't have a lot of investment in the movement so it was easy to let that go. The TM-siddhi program is a powerful, powerful technique that fosters awareness of Self through the buddhi/intellect. It pulls Self into awareness in the pauses between sutras. The mind begins to spontaneously discriminate between the points of time as they pass and moves into pure consciousness without loss of mental functioning. It is, in a very basic way, the opposite of TM. In TM you calm the mind down and slide into pure consciousness when there is essentially no mental functioning (I just realized-chitta vritti narodha-duh!) As Tom said, it is a brilliant Master stroke that has very little to do with the overt development of siddhis. You may not be able to fly, but you're going to wake up! -Peter To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
On Mar 14, 2005, at 6:34 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: The TM-siddhi program is a powerful, powerful technique that fosters awareness of Self through the buddhi/intellect. It pulls Self into awareness in the pauses between sutras. The mind begins to spontaneously discriminate between the points of time as they pass and moves into pure consciousness without loss of mental functioning. It is, in a very basic way, the opposite of TM. In TM you calm the mind down and slide into pure consciousness when there is essentially no mental functioning (I just realized-chitta vritti narodha-duh!) As Tom said, it is a brilliant Master stroke that has very little to do with the overt development of siddhis. You may not be able to fly, but you're going to wake up! It is clever if that was the intent, I'm just not convinced it was the intent. So many stopped at the road-signs on the road to CC. They're still there staring at them. I also see a pattern of a lot of people who learned the poetic language of enlighten-talk and walk who probably never were. But then they really didn't have a teacher to verify their state. It was valuable for me to a point. I still use it, you can integrate it, I don't feel any need to reject it as a practice. But it cannot lead to UC. Well maybe Unity Andy...;-) It has lost an evolutionary motion on me, but I do admire it for what it is. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
Vaj writes: re Sidhi practice I still use it, you can integrate it, I don't feel any need to reject it as a practice. But it cannot lead to UC. Well maybe Unity Andy...;-) Tom T: Well actually the Sidhi practice might lead to a minute or two in Unity and then the entire weight of the practice and many years of experience bounces one into Brahmin. Again, the goal of a me being in Union with Creation was just another part of the smoke and mirror trick MMY used to get you done. Brahmin can not be returned and one knows Self has found Self and that is all that matters. Tom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sense perception (was Re: soma New Vedic
They woke me up. -Peter --- Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Really? I must have been doing the wrong sutras--most of the time they just put me to sleep. I have a friend who goes to the the dome mainly because she says it's still a great place to sleep--she stays awake half the night so she can crash there. :) Sal On Mar 14, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: As Tom said, it is a brilliant Master stroke that has very little to do with the overt development of siddhis. You may not be able to fly, but you're going to wake up! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
