date:20050524

Very well said. Thank you for reminding us to get all the facts before we judge.

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CATRESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread felv




Mia, 
 
A DNA notice means do not adopt TO this person, not do 
not adopt FROM them. No one is aiming to make the cats who survived this tragedy 
unadoptable, we just do not want anyone to adopt any MORE cats into this 
rescue's care. I think maybe you misunderstood what the DNA notice email 
meant.
Jenn
 
~~~ There 
are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it harder for them to get 
their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone. 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
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Re: what they do

2005-05-24 Thread Barb Moermond

Oh Jamie,
what a beautiful tribute to Andy and our other poster kitties  You can be so proud of Andy's legacy, the minds he changed and opened.  We all miss him too and envy you and Abe for having had the privilege of knowing him so well.  You really hit the nail on the head with the reason for how special our FeLV+ kitties are.
And we are all with you through this - feel free to email me off list if you need to vent - I'm also on YM (Yahoo Messenger).
 
< wrote:



I just read Lisa's post about little Akira and was struck by something she said.  The part about what they teach us.  The "why me, why this cat" will drive you insane.  I mean you just love them so much and they are so special that you have to wonder WHY?  Well I think I know.  
 
Perhaps I am biased, but I can tell you there was something about Andy.  I mean I love my other 2 cats, but Andy had the "It" factor.  People were drawn to him.  People who don't like cats liked him.  He was so handsome and so sweet and so... well, cool.  So why do I think he was stricken with Felv?  Because he is unforgettable.  He makes an impression on anyone who meets him.  When I moved to Georgia 3 months after he was diagnosed, I went to the first vet in the phone book- Accute Care Veterinary Clinic- because he was so sick and I knew no one in that town.  There, Dr. Brucker, like may vets, was telling me it was hopeless.  Unbeknown to me, Andy was in his hemobartinella bout at that point but the vet heard me say "felv" and all desire to treat that cat flew out the window on his part.  So I took him home to die at that point.  This was 6 YEARS ago and he just died yesterday.  So I get on the List and email
 like mad.  Then Pam, Rissa-Tai's mom, posts and said "MAKE that man test for hemobartinella!"  I had no clue what that even was.  Pam did b/c Rissa had suffered through it.  Back we go to the vet and Dr. B tells me he doesn't want me to "waste" $50 on that test, especially when they can have it and it won't show on the test anyway.  But at Pam's insistence, I insisted.  That is what Rissa-Tai did.  She saved Andy.  And many others I'm sure, but here is an instance where I can directly link a life saved because of HER bravery and suffering.  So we did the test and it was positive!  He sent me home with some Doxycycline and said "don't expect miracles."  That cat's RBCs shot up and he was running around and playing again almost overnight.  The vet was stunned.  So for 2 years we had an understanding that he would never count Andy out like that again and we were TREATING him for
 LIFE not managing him for death.  At the end of the 2 years I came into the clinic and said I needed my records copied since my husband was out of the Army and we were moving back to Texas.  Dr. Brucker looked like I punched him in the gut.  Then proceeded to tell me how much he learned from me and Andy and how he would forever change the way he approached the treatment of Felv+ cats.  So there is one thing Andy did.  How many cats were saved because this vet changed his attitude about Felv?  And just now at this new vet, Dr. Baxter was stunned at how long he lived and really picked my brain about what I had done for Andy all these years.  So I told him about the List, and stress management, Interferon, the various supplements, etc.  He was familiar with most of it, but now had reason to SUGGEST IT TO FUTURE PATIENTS!  He said they succumb to it anyway, and I said but look how much time you can get with them if you treat it.  Just
 thing about HIV+ people.  They will eventually die from AIDS but you don't know when and the better they are taken care of the longer their life will be.  So I think Andy made an impact there too.
 
Of course I have to mention James' cat Vyvyan whose battle with Felv inspired him to create this website and this wonderful place for us to come together and share, learn, laugh and cry together.  Many thanks to James and Vyvyan for that.  
 
They come into our lives for a fleeting moment and touch us so deeply.  But like all of us, their purpose is much greater than to bring the joy and love and fulfillment that they do end up bringing to our lives.  That is just a fabulous, beautiful byproduct.  So Andy, Vyvyan, Akira, Rissa-Tai and all of your wonderful babies served a much greater good.  For me, I am clinging to what I know in my soul to be true.  That wonderful creature came into my life and changed me at my core.  I became heavily involved in animal rescue because of him on top of everything else.  I would have never done that if it was not for Andy.  They say you cannot know true joy without knowing true sorrow.  I believe that, and I now know that I have experienced true sorrow through the loss of Andy.  The selfish side of me wants him here, whole and healthy.  I don't want him to be gone, yet helpful to others.  I won't deny that.  I
 want him back so much.  But he did what he was sent to do and he is

what they do

2005-05-24 Thread Jamie Laws



I just read Lisa's post about little Akira and was struck by something she said.  The part about what they teach us.  The "why me, why this cat" will drive you insane.  I mean you just love them so much and they are so special that you have to wonder WHY?  Well I think I know.  
 
Perhaps I am biased, but I can tell you there was something about Andy.  I mean I love my other 2 cats, but Andy had the "It" factor.  People were drawn to him.  People who don't like cats liked him.  He was so handsome and so sweet and so... well, cool.  So why do I think he was stricken with Felv?  Because he is unforgettable.  He makes an impression on anyone who meets him.  When I moved to Georgia 3 months after he was diagnosed, I went to the first vet in the phone book- Accute Care Veterinary Clinic- because he was so sick and I knew no one in that town.  There, Dr. Brucker, like may vets, was telling me it was hopeless.  Unbeknown to me, Andy was in his hemobartinella bout at that point but the vet heard me say "felv" and all desire to treat that cat flew out the window on his part.  So I took him home to die at that point.  This was 6 YEARS ago and he just died yesterday.  So I get on the List and email
 like mad.  Then Pam, Rissa-Tai's mom, posts and said "MAKE that man test for hemobartinella!"  I had no clue what that even was.  Pam did b/c Rissa had suffered through it.  Back we go to the vet and Dr. B tells me he doesn't want me to "waste" $50 on that test, especially when they can have it and it won't show on the test anyway.  But at Pam's insistence, I insisted.  That is what Rissa-Tai did.  She saved Andy.  And many others I'm sure, but here is an instance where I can directly link a life saved because of HER bravery and suffering.  So we did the test and it was positive!  He sent me home with some Doxycycline and said "don't expect miracles."  That cat's RBCs shot up and he was running around and playing again almost overnight.  The vet was stunned.  So for 2 years we had an understanding that he would never count Andy out like that again and we were TREATING him for
 LIFE not managing him for death.  At the end of the 2 years I came into the clinic and said I needed my records copied since my husband was out of the Army and we were moving back to Texas.  Dr. Brucker looked like I punched him in the gut.  Then proceeded to tell me how much he learned from me and Andy and how he would forever change the way he approached the treatment of Felv+ cats.  So there is one thing Andy did.  How many cats were saved because this vet changed his attitude about Felv?  And just now at this new vet, Dr. Baxter was stunned at how long he lived and really picked my brain about what I had done for Andy all these years.  So I told him about the List, and stress management, Interferon, the various supplements, etc.  He was familiar with most of it, but now had reason to SUGGEST IT TO FUTURE PATIENTS!  He said they succumb to it anyway, and I said but look how much time you can get with them if you treat it.  Just
 thing about HIV+ people.  They will eventually die from AIDS but you don't know when and the better they are taken care of the longer their life will be.  So I think Andy made an impact there too.
 
Of course I have to mention James' cat Vyvyan whose battle with Felv inspired him to create this website and this wonderful place for us to come together and share, learn, laugh and cry together.  Many thanks to James and Vyvyan for that.  
 
They come into our lives for a fleeting moment and touch us so deeply.  But like all of us, their purpose is much greater than to bring the joy and love and fulfillment that they do end up bringing to our lives.  That is just a fabulous, beautiful byproduct.  So Andy, Vyvyan, Akira, Rissa-Tai and all of your wonderful babies served a much greater good.  For me, I am clinging to what I know in my soul to be true.  That wonderful creature came into my life and changed me at my core.  I became heavily involved in animal rescue because of him on top of everything else.  I would have never done that if it was not for Andy.  They say you cannot know true joy without knowing true sorrow.  I believe that, and I now know that I have experienced true sorrow through the loss of Andy.  The selfish side of me wants him here, whole and healthy.  I don't want him to be gone, yet helpful to others.  I won't deny that.  I
 want him back so much.  But he did what he was sent to do and he is gone now.  Before we went back to the vet yesterday afternoon, I explained to Andy about the Rainbow Bridge and that he would be there in a few minutes so just hang on for me.  And soon, but hopefully not TOO soon, I will come pick him up from there and we will go on to Heaven.  So that is where we stand now and I just hope God will grant me the gift of relief from this unbearable pain.
 
Thanks once again to everyone for your kind words, emails and support through this.
 
Jamie

RE: OT cat-safe roach control

2005-05-24 Thread catatonya

LOL!!!
 
I'm in Georgia, and we have those monsters here too.  I could tell many, many stories. haa!  My cats will usually get them, but sometimes, unfortunately, it's me that finds one.  It is so awful when they fly.  I have had them get ON me before at our place on the lake. lol.  It's really not funny. I'm scared to death of them. But the giant flying cockroach is definitely a southern thang!  We find it less gross to call them 'palmetto bugs'!
 
tJen Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


When I moved from Chicago to Houston, I was ill-prepared for the bugs I'd encounter here!  Essentially, this area is home to cockroaches (albeit, *clean* cockroaches...although that doesn't make me feel any better about them) that average in size of about 1 1/2" long (and, they fly...I could've gone the rest of my life knowing that they didn't fly...it was enough just to see them move about...when I found out they could fly, I had a small coronary).  My favorite story about my move here:  I was in Target a few days after coming face to face with one *large* cockroach in the bathroom...I was looking at the roach traps when a woman came up to me and asked if I was looking for something for ants because she knew of a good trap.  We struck up a conversation and I told her, no, I was actually looking for something for those huge cockroaches!  Well, the woman's face drops and she looks me
 straight in the eye and says, "You're not from around here, are you?  You don't get rid of those."  She then proceeded to tell me horror stories (in my mind) of roaches getting into her bed at night as a kid, etc.  She claims that they only come inside in search of water...but, I believe, they sense fear and come inside just to terrorize me.
 
Anyway, long story short...our cats *are* our roach control!  We have an agreement, I feed them, they take care of any stray cockroaches...and, so far, the pact has worked out...I *rarely* find a live cockroach in the house (as I speak, I've got about a dozen roach carcasses laying about...but no live ones).  In fact, I've got one girl (Lola) who is nicknamed "the destructor" because she shows those roaches no mercy!  :)  If I ever encounter a roach in the bathroom, I just grab Lo and let her have at it!  We've also got a daily ritual...for some reason, roaches have taken up residence in a cabinet out in the garage...at night, I'll go out into the garage and several cats will surround me at the cabinet knowing what is next:  I whip open the cabinet doors and as roaches go running, I bang on the outsides of the cabinet forcing them to fall to the floor where a small feline army
 is waiting!  :)
 
But, unfortunately, I don't have any advice about alternative roach control for the roaches that you are talking about...I wish there was a way to keep the massive mutant roaches from Hades here in Houston out of the house...but like I said, I don't think the cats would have it any other way!  ;)
 
Jen
 
 


-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kerry MacKenzieSent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 1:18 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: OT cat-safe roach control
Just wondering if anyone has any good ideas on roach prevention/control that's safe for kitties.
I'm pretty upset--i have a roach phobia. Never saw one all the years I lived in the UK. And I've never seen one in the 9 years I've been in this place. But I had plenty in the last Chicago place i lived in, and I was in a permanent state of anxiety about it.

Re: can we drop the kittykind subject?

Barb and group,
You are right, I apologize, it just gets me so angry but, I will cease disscussion, should anyone want to continue off the group I am more than willing @ [EMAIL PROTECTED] otherwise I am dropping the subject. Thanks for all who listened and agreed.
CherieBarbara Lowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I don't want to sound cold about this but frankly i've been deleting allthese messages now. Unless anyone is directly involved with helping resolvethis issue with the volunteers and foster homes left in the lurch, why isall this time being spent debating this theoretically? If there is a point,then by all means continue your discussion but shouldn't it be done off thisforum? don't mean to sound cranky--just been fighting a hacking cough forweeks now and taking care of my furkids on very little sleep.barbaraHave a purrfect day
Cherie

Re: Please read this response!! -KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Well maybe she should have called and then someone would have stopped her before the number got up to 200...If you are a legit organization, like a shelter, there are not too many questions that need to be answerd unless you are dealing with 200 cats in 1 years time. Then there should be questions and maybe just maybe the death toll would be 100 not 200."Gloria B. Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Cherie, that's not realistic. The veterinarians just don't do that kind of thing, and certainly not for free. So one is stuck trying to figure out what to do. Up there in the urban areas, even the city may charge, and then you run the risk of legal problems with such a quantity (if that's accurate)... so it becomes a difficult issue for the individual dealing with it.Gloria>Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>If she would have picked up the phone and called the local animal hospital >I am sure they would have taken the dead animals...unless she did not want >to answer questions, and that is just another mark against her.>>Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>I agree...I would like to know the story behind the 200 dead animals...>That makes no sense to me..But if she took in a
 lot of sick FeLV+...>That is still a huge number to have outside and she has to be sick to>let that happen..As I say there is a story behind that and I think we need>to know it before we can pass judgment...>TadHave a purrfect day
Cherie

felv+, 3 yr old female Abyssinnian in Tenn

2005-05-24 Thread Kathy Gittel




I just 
realized I need to re-send this with the FELV+ in the subject 
line.
I belong to an Abyssinnian rescue group and I've just been told about 
a sweet Aby girl-cat who tested FELV+. I'm trying to get in touch with 
the veterinarian who has her in Tennessee, but the situation sounds 
rather grim. Apparently she's already anemic, and losing weight 
despite eating well. Besides Hemobartonella and Lymphoma, does anyone 
have any ideas or suggestions for me? I can't take her in if hre vet 
bills are going tosky rockjet because I have alarming vet bills 
already with 3 CRF cats and Deirdre who is FELV+.
Kathy and Deirdre
ps: Below is some of the information sent to me by the head of the Aby 
rescue group:

 She has been retested two times and both times came up positive. 
This cat isn't a kitten, she is 3 years old. The owner brought her in 
for being extremely thin, despite the fact that she eats very well. 
They tested her for hyperthyroidism and it was negative and that is 
when they found she was anemic as well as testing positive for FeLv. 
The cat lived with 3 other cats, some who went in and out of the 
house.
The owner opted to euthanize her, but the veterinarian has stated 
repeatedly that this girl is extremely loving and affectionate and 
sweet and can't bring herself to do it. This kitty must really be a 
good one.
As far as heroic measures to try to extend her life, I can't see 
anyone doing that, but certainly I would love to see her in a home 
situation with love and care until her quality of life starts to wane.

I really don't know if the vet can solicit $$ help from the previous 
owner.  The vet says she herself can't afford her veterinary costs, so 
I'm thinking that it might be a small or poor clinic.

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Absolutely not, but we are not talking about a company, we are talking about animal welfare, and the people closely involved.Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

but do you feel that everyone in that company lets say 500 should be resposible and know what each other is doing. I agree there should be someone to keep an eye out on Kess and the organization but that would be best left to an outside organization or resource. Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Along those lines...we are not talking about a company we are talking about animals and people who CHOOSE to be there should CHOOSE to take responsibility and know all aspects and what goes on behind the scenes.
The boss gets in trouble you COULD very well possibly be in trouble also, accounts get IT all the time and I am an accountant.
Cherie
Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Yes someone should keep an eye out for Kess but to assume that every volunteer and foster should be responsible and should have known is **insane. That's like saying if your boss or the president of you job embezeled money from the company -if we found him guilty then should you also go to jail whether you knew or not? That working for a company automatically makes you responsible for everyone's actions in that company. Would you think you should go to jail if your boss did and you were innocent? I think not. Again rescue groups have such a hard time finding volunteers let alone fosters these people give whatever time they have to help the animals in need -not babysit the organization!! Lets just leave it at this and agree to disagree.
Just because they hung your boss - I would still never let them hang you. **I really hope some of you agree with me on this!!Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Mia,
We will agree to disagree on this.
I feel when you take on the responsiblity to foster or volunteer, you must take responsibility for your actions and that means if you were negligent in asking questions and being informed about the others in your facility then you are also to blame for the situation. Kess shoudl have known better, true, but the others should have watched and communicated with others, Kess is the President, but that does not mean she knows all and is right in everything she does. Personally I question everyone, and my vet questions me, to make sure I am not in it over my head (mind you she thinks I need a few more). This is the way organizations should be worked and run.
Cherie
Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Cherie,
I don't agree with what happened as I have said more than a few time with what Kess did.
I agree with what your saying as to maybe there should have been a system to have everyone looked at. I just don't feel that all volunteers and fosters should be responsible for this woman's actions. There should have been someone in charge of making sure the numbers were not to high and that the living conditions are in good shape but how can you assume it should be everyone's job. Rescue groups and shelters struggle to get volunteers especially fosters -to assume that they should also have to check or be responsible for someone else's living conditions is insane. Please realize Kess is the President and I think founder of Kitty Kind who knows what she told these people - it is also her responsiblity to show an example. It is not a fosters or volunteers responsibilty to make sure that everything is done right by her. Yes someone should have created a system maybe that can be a thing to follow but Kess also lives no where near most of these people nor should their shared time to
help animals be used to babysit Kess.
We have different views to the ones who are suffering. lets just leave it at that. I am mad at Kess but I also have seen and heard volunteers and foster in pain over this and have opened my mind and tried to put myself in their situation. They might have assumed that someone was in knowledge of her conditions -how could you think these people would have just ignored this.
Mia Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Mia,
When I have volunteered and fostered in the past I would go to other fosters homes and volunteers just to stop by and say hi, or visit the furr kids that I had cared for, the director would often be questioned by myself and others as to her population stand point and she would have us over to see for ourselves, not that she was untrusted but just as, she would come and see the volunteers set ups and check on the fosters, she opened her home to us so we could do the same, and any timeThat is responsibilty.what happened with Kess was complete irresposiblity on everyones part.
Has anyone checked on your house, before you got started, so they new you were able to care for animals if need beI bet they did and if they did not then shame on them
I still have my vet come to my house and she is encouraging me to take more on, because of my house size and my views, but I

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

I agree, but if you left animals outside a hospital door, they would have disposed of them properly.Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

The local animal hospital wouldn't have taken the animals -not 200 maybe 1 or 2 but would have charged her. She just shouldn't have let it happen at all.Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

If she would have picked up the phone and called the local animal hospital I am sure they would have taken the dead animals...unless she did not want to answer questions, and that is just another mark against her.Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I agree...I would like to know the story behind the 200 dead animals...That makes no sense to me...But if she took in a lot of sick FeLV+...That is still a huge number to have outside and she has to be sick to let that happen..As I say there is a story behind that and I think we needto know it before we can pass judgment...TadCherie A Gabbert wrote:

How about 200 decaying kids in the back yard, would you say help that person out also?
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mia  She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry about the old litter that I bury in my back yard...  But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it would be much more to the rescue effort to help her out and save the good name of the  people that have worked with her... If it turns out that she was putting aside for her own enjoyment a lot of donations than thetas a different story but if she has just lost touch with reality which can easily be done in this rescue fight than I say give her a break and some help... Tad Mia Nicer wrote: 


Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am
 appauld that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which>
 she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to
 get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20,

RE: Please read this response!! URGENT-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-inOrange, NJ]

It might be a long hard fight but I think it is nessasaryChris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:





I'm not certain we'll ever get them to care about animals
 
Maybe after we learn to care about people!

Chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tamara sticklerSent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:11 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Please read this response!! URGENT-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-inOrange, NJ]
 

People, as a whole, are generally flawed.  So obsessed with their individual concerns, and of course amassing wealth and possesions...Our own government is working hard to eliminate social programs that, while abused by some, feed, house, cloth, teach, and give health care for childrenWe fund schools based on test scores, spending more money where the scores are higher because those children have more "potenial" thereby fulfilling our own prophacy by declaring that those who did not score well never had the potential to begin with.  Well, Einstein failed algebra.

 

People don't care about people...I'm not certain we'll ever get them to care about animals. I guess we just have to keep screaming into the wind and hoping SOMEONE in the future will hear."Gloria B. Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

If you put "kids" in place of "animals', well - you wouldn't have "breeders" (uh in the way that we do for cats), they wouldn't have a city organization devoted to euthanizing (sometimes inhumainely), or they wouldn't be running loose on the street clawing thru the garbage - well not as much. And people might care more.GloriaAt 12:30 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:>Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Put kids in place of the >animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail, >but instead working with other kids?>>Ah...no..you'll get the more emotional response from me if you leave >"animals" just where it is...>>I love kids too, but at least they can speak up in the same
 language.>>Trust mepeople who delibertly or through ignorance hurt animals & >children...well, they are the lowest of the low.>>I DO believe she should be punished...and it never occured to me that she >had done something delibertly to hasten their deaths, but fixing a >problem, or trying too does more in the long run than just punishing for >the acts... This woman is prob. a "collector" who got in over her >head...then who do you go too? Your friends and family think you're >nuts...just "get rid of them, they're ONLY animals..." but it would break >your heart to do so, no one understands so you'll just do it all >yourself..you'll show them>>I believe she needs therapy first...then it can be decided HOW to >proceed...were the acts intentional...out of frustrationor the >by-product of over empathy that turned into a logic & reality
 breakdown?>>The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. God help us all.
__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Have a purrfect day
Cherie

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Again I am sorry but, no excuse
CherieMia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Ithe volunteers and fosters come when they have the time most dont get the chance to meet all the animals, most of them were not aware of how many animals were in her care. They work full-time and try to spend the free time they have when they are not with their familys helping these animals. Now realize they have their own plus the own at the off-site event and a ton everyday being dropped off by unresponsible owners or people with strays. Now Marlene lives in New Jersey a different state mind you and some have not even met her. They try to devote their time to the animals not chasing this woman down.
I understand someone should watch over he organization but that should be done within the higher ups in the organization or better yet an outside source making sure everything is done right. I agree with you on this but not people the who try to give the extra hour or 2 they have in the week helping a few animals try to find a good home. Its one thing to inquire and ask questions its another to be led to believe something else. Volunteering is a gift to these rescue groups by extradinary people -it is not their fulltime job. Try to take it easy on some of them. Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Again, they should ask and shouls have been aware of what Kess was doing, if animals disappear from the shelter, you would inquire if they were adopted out or if she brought them home, then later ask about their and see if she needs any help...all things I myself have done and asked.Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

But Joan The volunteers and fosters are not resposible for the animals that Kess takes home. Joan Doljan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I agree. Since most of us screen adopters, I think the same should be for fosterers. I pay attention when someone says a house smells, or their cats are always sick etc. I never send anyone anywhere unless I have seen the house or facility, or someone I trust has.
JoanCherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

can we drop the kittykind subject?

2005-05-24 Thread Barbara Lowe

I don't want to sound cold about this but frankly i've been deleting all
these messages now. Unless anyone is directly involved with helping resolve
this issue with the volunteers and foster homes left in the lurch, why is
all this time being spent debating this theoretically?  If there is a point,
then by all means continue your discussion but shouldn't it be done off this
forum? don't mean to sound cranky--just been fighting a hacking cough for
weeks now and taking care of my furkids on very little sleep.
barbara

Re: Please read this response!! -KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Cherie, that's not realistic.  The veterinarians just don't do that kind of 
thing, and certainly not for free.  So one is stuck trying to figure out 
what to do.  Up there in the urban areas, even the city may charge, and 
then you run the risk of legal problems with such a quantity (if that's 
accurate)... so it becomes a difficult issue for the individual dealing 
with it.


Gloria



Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If she would have picked up the phone and called the local animal hospital 
I am sure they would have taken the dead animals...unless she did not want 
to answer questions, and that is just another mark against her.


Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I agree...I would like to know the story behind the 200 dead animals...
That makes no sense to me..But if she took in a lot of sick FeLV+...
That is still a huge number to have outside and she has to be sick to
let that happen..As I say there is a story behind that and I think we need
to know it before we can pass judgment...
Tad

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Cherie,
The foster and volunteers are not ignorant. I

3 yr old female Abyssinnian in Tenn

2005-05-24 Thread Kathy Gittel

I belong to an Abyssinnian rescue group and I've just been told about 
a sweet Aby girl-cat who tested FELV+. I'm trying to get in touch with 
the veterinarian who has her in Tennessee, but the situation sounds 
rather grim. Apparently she's already anemic, and losing weight 
despite eating well. Besides Hemobartonella and Lymphoma, does anyone 
have any ideas or suggestions for me? I can't take her in if hre vet 
bills are going tosky rockjet because I have alarming vet bills 
already with 3 CRF cats and Deirdre who is FELV+.
Kathy and Deirdre
ps: Below is some of the information sent to me by the head of the Aby 
rescue group:

 She has been retested two times and both times came up positive. 
This cat isn't a kitten, she is 3 years old. The owner brought her in 
for being extremely thin, despite the fact that she eats very well. 
They tested her for hyperthyroidism and it was negative and that is 
when they found she was anemic as well as testing positive for FeLv. 
The cat lived with 3 other cats, some who went in and out of the 
house.
The owner opted to euthanize her, but the veterinarian has stated 
repeatedly that this girl is extremely loving and affectionate and 
sweet and can't bring herself to do it. This kitty must really be a 
good one.
As far as heroic measures to try to extend her life, I can't see 
anyone doing that, but certainly I would love to see her in a home 
situation with love and care until her quality of life starts to wane.

I really don't know if the vet can solicit $$ help from the previous 
owner.  The vet says she herself can't afford her veterinary costs, so 
I'm thinking that it might be a small or poor clinic.

RE: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CATRESCUE-in Or...

Thats horrible. What a horrible man. that is why shelters and rescue groups suggest never giving a cat away for free to somone you don't know.Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:





I hadnt even thought about that!
 

Chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:26 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CATRESCUE-in Or...
 
I agree very fishy. I wouldn't leave a kitty with him. The area I live in has a person who traps ferals and goes around to homes and asks for cats he says to keep on his farm to keep down rodents. He is selling them to a well known research facility at a large medical college. My friends and I make it a point to tell everyone we can what he is doing. 
Mia Nicer
Phone: (646) 226-3277
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com <>

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

The local animal hospital wouldn't have taken the animals -not 200 maybe 1 or 2 but would have charged her. She just shouldn't have let it happen at all.Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

If she would have picked up the phone and called the local animal hospital I am sure they would have taken the dead animals...unless she did not want to answer questions, and that is just another mark against her.Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I agree...I would like to know the story behind the 200 dead animals...That makes no sense to me...But if she took in a lot of sick FeLV+...That is still a huge number to have outside and she has to be sick to let that happen..As I say there is a story behind that and I think we needto know it before we can pass judgment...TadCherie A Gabbert wrote:

How about 200 decaying kids in the back yard, would you say help that person out also?
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mia  She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry about the old litter that I bury in my back yard...  But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it would be much more to the rescue effort to help her out and save the good name of the  people that have worked with her... If it turns out that she was putting aside for her own enjoyment a lot of donations than thetas a different story but if she has just lost touch with reality which can easily be done in this rescue fight than I say give her a break and some help... Tad Mia Nicer wrote: 


Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am
 appauld that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which>
 she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to
 get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledger Staff> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan> as a> caregiv

RE: Please read this response!! URGENT-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-inOrange, NJ]

I'm not certain we'll ever get them
to care about animals

Maybe after we learn to care about people!

Chris

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tamara stickler
Sent: Tuesday, May 24,
 2005 2:11 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Please read this
response!! URGENT-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-inOrange, NJ]

People, as a whole, are generally flawed.  So
obsessed with their individual concerns, and of course amassing wealth and
possesions...Our own government is working hard to eliminate social programs
that, while abused by some, feed, house, cloth, teach, and give health care for
childrenWe fund schools based on test scores, spending more money where the
scores are higher because those children have more "potenial" thereby
fulfilling our own prophacy by declaring that those who did not score well
never had the potential to begin with.  Well, Einstein failed algebra.

People don't care about people...I'm not certain we'll
ever get them to care about animals. I guess we just have to keep screaming
into the wind and hoping SOMEONE in the future will hear.

"Gloria B. Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

If you
put "kids" in place of "animals', well - you wouldn't have 
"breeders" (uh in the way that we do for cats), they wouldn't have a
city 
organization devoted to euthanizing (sometimes inhumainely), or they 
wouldn't be running loose on the street clawing thru the garbage - well not 
as much. And people might care more.

Gloria

At 12:30 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:

>Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Put kids in place of the 
>animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail, 
>but instead working with other kids?
>
>Ah...no..you'll get the more emotional response from me if you leave 
>"animals" just where it is...
>
>I love kids too, but at least they can speak up in the same language.
>
>Trust mepeople who delibertly or through ignorance hurt animals & 
>children...well, they are the lowest of the low.
>
>I DO believe she should be punished...and it never occured to me that she 
>had done something delibertly to hasten their deaths, but fixing a 
>problem, or trying too does more in the long run than just punishing for 
>the acts... This woman is prob. a "collector" who got in over her

>head...then who do you go too? Your friends and family think you're 
>nuts...just "get rid of them, they're ONLY animals..." but it
would break 
>your heart to do so, no one understands so you'll just do it all 
>yourself..you'll show them
>
>I believe she needs therapy first...then it can be decided HOW to 
>proceed...were the acts intentional...out of frustrationor the 
>by-product of over empathy that turned into a logic & reality
breakdown?
>
>The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. God help us all.

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

RE: OT cat-safe roach control

My father once bought me one of those that plug in--my cat at the time kept
knocking it out of the outlet!!

Chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MacKenzie, Kerry
N.
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:03 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: OT cat-safe roach control

Thank you for the reminder MaryChristine...I've started scrubbing
anyway...figured it can't hurt..., and I've begun throwing out empty
boxes...but now, I'm wondering, does anyone know how effective
ELECTRONIC roach/insect repellents are such as those made by Pest
Repeller Ultimate???..The testimonials sound great (of course)...(I'm on
red alert now for every movement..keep looking at the floor by the
doorhalf-expecting to see one march in under the door. i know it
sounds so wimpy of me, and there are far worse problems in life, but I
really do have a total horror of them. I can live with just about any
other insect I've come across) Thanks again for any info. You guys
are just great. Kerry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:27 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT cat-safe roach control


to remind everyone again, these disgusting little critters can live on
almost anything--so it really ISN'T an issue of cleanliness or lack
thereof. once they're in, they're just very hard to evict. the way
to approach the neighbors is to give them the facts about boxes and
bags and glue and soap--or they are likely to think you're judging
their housekeeping--being a poor housekeeper may make the situation
worse, for sure, but as anyone who's ever had roaches will tell you, a
spotless house is NO deterrent! (hm--since they LIKE soap, does
GOOD housekeeping make the place a better diner?)

caulking sounds like a great idea, too--but i'm not sure that any
human can ever actually find all the miniscule places they can use to
travel around a building.

now, does anyone have any good suggestions for asian lady beetles and
box-elder bugs???

-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

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RE: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind-CATRESCUE-in Orange, NJ]









I remember the saga with Simms & I
know Rude Ranch as I considered them for Big Boy…  I worked with
abused/neglected children for many years and believe me, I know what people do
to children much less to animals who are even lower on the totem
pole!!

 



Chris

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of tamara stickler
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:55
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: Please read this
response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind-CATRESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

 



Chris, 





 





I know exactly what you mean!  When I was trying
to place Simms, or several others for that matter, I've had people who refuse
to tell me how many animals they hadwho wanted to meet elsewhereThen
the one woman I placed him with for a bit (I'll call her L) was
recommended by THREE rescue groups: Rude Ranch, Greyhound Rescue, (I forget the
third one..) all had used and were STILL using her even though I don't believe
any had actually been out to her home.  She had SO many animals, that neither
she nor her husband knew how many they had!  She was wonderful and
loving but the place, although she had the best intentions, was a horrid mess -
the filth, the stink!   They truly seemed to LOVE the ones they
hadbut they just were not physcally capable of doing all the work.  If
I HAD to guess, and they refused to let me see the rest of the farm, so I'm
assuming from the noises and smells, I'd say they had nearly 200
animals (I'm not counting farm animals, but foster dogs, & cats). 
Apparently after speaking with L, Rude Ranch, who charges $200 per cat
turned over and $50 or $60 a month there after for lifetime care, often sends many
cats her way, without monetary compensation, she was stunned to learn the fees
they charged.  I believe (though I have no proof) that if the person who
surrenders a FeLV cat fails to continue to pay the monthly cost, the animal was
transfered to her.  (I had arranged with Rude Ranch to take Simms, at
first they didn't have any openings, once I agreed to the surrender fee and
monthly maitenance...one week later they had an opening.  I found out from
L. that she had just taken another cat from Rude Ranch the same week
that that opening became available.  Plus, I was told by the RR
owner, after I asked, that if I planned to visit, please give him at the least
one week notice, pref. two before coming by.()  Makes you
wonder...would Simms have eventually been transfered to the foster home, and
retrieved before I came to visit, even if I continued to pay? 
Needless to say, I found Simms a better home.





 





It just goes to show that the Easiest way is
usually NOT the best.





 





I agree about dumping the dead cats, she really should
have TRIED to get rid of them some way(Defenders of Animal Rights owner,
was fined back in the late 80's for breaking into the Balto. Co. pound's
dumpster and dumping the animal carcuses from his organiztion therebut hey,
at least he tried to get rid of them..)





 





Oh, and Chris...yes, in any rescuing organization,
with the intention of adopting out their charges, a FeLV + cat, even
if outwardly healthy, SHOULD be considered sick (just because 1- no one really
knows how easily transfered the illness is, & 2- chances are good the
rescue cannot afford to give vacinations to each of its charges). 
Defenders of Animal Rights, routinely told adopters that all its cats had been
tested for FeLV and feline aids and vaccinated against it before
being placed in the communial cat adoption rooms where they roamed free. 
Well, MOST of the cats,esp. if the owners did not leave the fulll $200
surrender & maintance for life or until adopted fee, were put down
before the people made it back to their cars.  While all that did make it
to the cat room were given the routine rabies & distemper vacs., NONE that
I ever saw in 2years were tested for Felv or feline aids.  Several
complaints came back from people who had adopted from us, and their previously
healthy cat was now infected as was the cat that they just adopted. 
Several times, both the cat and kitten rooms were wiped clean of felines and
the whole mess started over again...and again..





 





As much as you want to trust people and organizations,
you can never fully trust them to keep their words...test results can be
doctored, or just lied about.  ALWAYS have an animal tested before
releasing among your current ones.  NEVER assume an organization, no matter
how good it sounds, or looks, or how touching the newsletters are, is
completely on the up and up.  Stories for newsletters are easily
doctored...sapped up...created to bring the tear-jerk response that brings in
the cash.  Yes, many are truebut just as many are fiction.





 





Donor, adopter beware...and the best way to help the
animals...is to do it yourself.  Sorry if that sounds cynical, but
honestly, I'm

RE: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CATRESCUE-in Or...

I totally agree with you... there are many legitimate reasons why he
wouldn't want the traffic or risk the dumping  I just felt that any
rescue group that does regular business with him would have sent someone to
see the place

Chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:54 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind
-CATRESCUE-in Or...

devil's advocate here--damn, it's a pain having 4 planets in libra:
"but on the other hand!"

that NO one ever saw his facilities is indeed somewhat smelly.

that he doesn't allow perfect strangers into his place is not
something to imeediately judge by. many people who take in
special-needs cats do so out of their own HOMES--they are NOT a public
shelter, usually don't have the insurance to protect themselves, nor a
desire to have folks they don't know know where they are.

FeLV cats, especially, need as stress-free an environment as possible;
having strangers coming in all the time does not meet my definition of
that FeLV cats tend NOT to be adopted out, so for them, a
sanctuary setting is THEIR forever home, as much as it is the human's
who care for them.

do NOT underestimate the dumping factor--and the role that
cowardice/shame plays in dumping. most people who dump do NOT call for
an appointment, nor knock on the door and say, "i'm leaving a sick cat
in a crate out in the snow at midnight--hope you find it in time!" as
most farm folk can tell you, even healthy cats are dumped on them all
the time. there are only so many cats that ANY facility can take in;
limiting access is one of the ways to prevent a bad situation from
developing.

neighbors are another very valid reason to limit access--even in
places where there are no legal limits on the number of cats one can
have, there are often technicalities that ordinary folk don't think
about when starting to take in the unwanted--special-use permits, for
example. amount of traffic is another issue--these days, anyone in
this area with a lot of coming and going traffic is gonna be looked at
as a possible meth-lab: a definite problem since cooking the
ingredients gives off a cat-urine odor! and then there are the very
real folks who just like to cause trouble--every hour spent dealing
with them means an hour that the cats DON'T get

ON THE OTHER HAND volunteers and rescues who regularly work with a
facility SHOULD be allowed to see the place! the general public is one
thing, even a group that a facility has never worked with before might
be asked to meet off-site initially.

people need to investigate the shelters/rescues/sanctuaries they
relinquish cats to, just as the shelters/rescues/sanctuaries research
the folks they adopt to. there is NO way to completely weed out the
good liars and the psychos, but both sides need to do their homework.
which means talking to a NUMBER of people and groups--i don't know of
any group that doesn't have SOMEONE who hates them, often because they
were denied adoption rights. or people who find fault with EVERY
organization they contact

we do the best we can we have to communicate with compassion and
honesty amongst ourselves, for the good of the critters...

-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

But Joan The volunteers and fosters are not resposible for the animals that Kess takes home. Joan Doljan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

RE: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CATRESCUE-in Or...









I
hadn’t even thought about that!

 



Chris

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:26
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Please read this
response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CATRESCUE-in Or...

 

I agree very fishy. I wouldn't leave
a kitty with him. The area I live in has a person who traps ferals and goes
around to homes and asks for cats he says to keep on his farm to keep down
rodents. He is selling them to a well known research facility at a large
medical college. My friends and I make it a point to tell everyone we can what
he is doing.

RE: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CATRESCUE-in Orange, NJ]









Well, my vet has given me reduced rate but
it is another company altogether who does cremations & there are no
discounts!!!  (I’m in NY).  And I agree, I would not take in
more cats than I could afford but I don’t think people start out thinking
they’ll take more than they can handle.  As for the guy in the
parking lot, well, when I raised some questions to the few people who suggested
him, I got more than a cold response!

 



Chris

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:04
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Please read this
response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CATRESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

 





I agree to a point, but my vet and the local vets
around here, would take deceased animals and get rid of the bodies for you,
with no cost, and I have made some calls and I have not found an animal
hospital or vet around me that would not take the animal from you.





 





As for vet cost, if you can not afford it do not do
it.I have 9 cats now and if I could not afford sick kitties or the vet
bills, I would not have taken them.





 





I have a humane society (I use that lightly) that is
completly over run, I have often thought about building a facility to house
sick kitties, or last chance cats, the cost of such an endeaver is my only down
fall.big as it may be. I have gone into the "humane society"
with cleaning supplies and offered to clean up the kennels and they were
completely appauld me and said it was fine the way it is...let me tell you the
stench is something horried.





 





If there was a way and I am still looking I would definately
put my money where my mouth is and help more that my 9..





 





The guy that would only meet you in a parking lot,
needs to be investigated in my opinion that seems a little too fishy.





Cherie

Chris
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







Of course, the article
doesn’t really describe the condition of the living cats except that they
were in one room.  Certainly it is at the very least odd that someone
would just dump the carcasses but then how much would it have cost to have each
cremated….  And if she couldn’t afford the cremation, I doubt
she could afford the vet bills.  I’ve never understood why the vet
schools don’t set up free or low-cost clinics for their students to help
with this situation.  It sounds like perhaps this is someone who got in
way over their head…  As for mixing ‘sick’ & healthy
cats, does FELV diagnosis automatically constitute
‘sick’…  

 

Believe me, I’m not
trying to make excuses for her but when as I look for a home for my Big Boy,
I’ve talked to any number of people who are clearly in over their
head.  One person, highly recommended by several local rescue groups for
taking their FELV cats, refused to tell me where he lived & wanted to meet
me in a parking lot to  get Big Boy.  Rescue groups apparently meet
him at Petco & give him their FELV kittens.  While he said the reason
for not telling me where he was was because people would dump animals made some
sense, I was flabergasted that no legitimate rescue group had ever seen his
home.   He might be great but who would ever know!  

 



Chris

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cherie A Gabbert
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 11:06
AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: Please read this
response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CATRESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

 



That is no excuse...I am appauld that anyone would
stand up for this individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving
her supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I
would hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand up
for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a shelter
themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a laugh, like
the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am sick over this I would
like to meet her in a dark alley.





 





Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just
so shocked and disgusted.





Cherie





 









 



Have
a purrfect day





Cherie

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Barb Thank you so much for that!!! Everyone makes mistakes not everyone is perfect. She did somthing extremely wrong but she did do some great things in the past that did help animals. Still this is not an excuse.
 
miaBarb Moermond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

frankly, I don't see that happening here - as overworked as a lot of child protective agencies are, there are too many checks and balances and places where kids are noticed - the neighbors would have called months ago f'rinstance.  There are simply far more laws and societal rules in place to protect children and while there are definitely problems with the system, this society cares more about kids than animals (however little the difference may seem to be).  NO, I don't think she should get away with this scot-free, but are YOU perfect?  Have you never made a mis-judgment that could have snowballed?  Being diligent about your animal's housing conditions is fabulous and that your vet thinks you can and should handle more is great.  What if you didn't have that vet?  What if you didn't have a good support network?  What if you had severe emotional problems that just blew out of control in the middle of that?
 
We as a society are so quick to say "*I* would never have let "x" happen" - and maybe most of the time that's accurate, but it isn't 100%...  Our society has some serious ills and our energy would be better spent trying to alter the thinking that makes it OK to dump unwanted animals or not spay/neuter or abuse those weaker than ourselves and maybe if we all developed more compassion for all of our fellow creatures and left the judging up to the higher powers (and the law), we could start to solve the problem of so many overflowing shelters and unwanted animals...
 
There is a huge disparity between having kids and being parents.  I see it all the time where I live and I've come to the conclusion that humans should have to take parenting classes and become licensed in order to be able to procreate.  It makes me nuts - former downstairs neighbor, 2 adults and 4 kids in a 2 bedroom 1 bath apt.  The kids were always running around making LOTS of noise, never any supervision and when I would hear an adult voice, it would be yelling ugly things at the kids.  People coming and going at all hours and then they got a puppy  I would hear it whining and whining  they'd had it locked in the bathroom - so neither the kids nor the puppy were getting what I would consider a good upbringing...  I also had to call the police several times because of screaming throwing arguments from them...  how is THAT raising those kids properly?  anyhoo - big tangent here:)
 
stepping off soap-box!!Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

How about 200 decaying kids in the back yard, would you say help that person out also?
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mia  She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry about the old litter that I bury in my back yard...  But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it would be much more to the rescue effort to help her out and save the good name of the  people that have worked with her... If it turns out that she was putting aside for her own enjoyment a lot of donations than thetas a different story but if she has just lost touch with reality which can easily be done in this rescue fight than I say give her a break and some help... Tad Mia Nicer wrote: 


Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am
 appauld that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go

RE: KittyKind as a symbol--LONG LONG response!

Ok, I too have been reading things online and I even went to www.kittykind.org looks nice, but I have also read that 200 cats in one year.come on we all have had sick and elderly cats but 200 in a 12 month time period that is an average of 16.66 a month that means more than half of the month one cat died A DAY...there is something wrong here.
 
As to taking the other cats out of the home, where would they put them? 
 
There are always alternitives, spay, neuter and medicate, then release into a safe farm land environmentkeep the elderly as they have special needs and the too sickly to medicate but otherwise fix me up and if no one can adopt them, they can even be tagged, all my cats have a chip in the neck, if they are lost they can be returned. Then let the kitties be free to roam, farms and farm land can be heaven for a kitty, all those mice and such yummy
 
I do not agree with all you say, but then again I am a firm believer in an eye for an eye, and if you do me or my family, furr or child, wrong watch out my wrath is great. 
 
Cherie"MacKenzie, Kerry N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
when did we decide that a newspaper version of ANYTHING is accurateand fair? what sells papers? "woman overwhelmed with departed cats;living ones in good shape?"I know nothing about the case except what I read here on the list, andas MaryChristine points out you certainly cannot take newspaper articlesas gospel---they're always slanted, it's the nature of the business.So, I feel unqualified to weigh in, apart from to thank MaryChristinefor a well-balanced and carefully considered reminder of all the factorsthat should be taken into account.Kerry-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCatsSent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:50 PMTo: FeLVTalkSubject: KittyKind as a symbol--LONG LONG
 response!okay, here goes--this has been in draft form for a number of hoursnow. i know it won't be popular, i just hope that it does makepeople stop for a bit and maybe challenge themselves.while i am not in ny/nj area, and have no personal experience withKittyKind, i have heard excellent things about thisshelter/group from folks who arefrom what i gather, marlene took home the sickly ones--the ones none ofthe other rescues would touch. the sick, the elderly, the severelyabused before they reach our care--these cats DIE, withheart-wrenching regularity. and no one who hasn't accepted the care ofa large number of the most-unfortunate seem to face that reality. andhow many have ever thought about what THEY would do, in the winter, inthe north, with the earthly remains of these finally-free cats?no one seems to notice that they didn't remove the living cats fromher custody--even if i didn't have a real
 understanding of how thesethings can happen--that would be enough for me to question howterrible the conditions/her care really were.38 cats in one room? well, depends on the size of the cats, the sizeof the room, the number of litter boxes, the number of windows, theventilation, the toys/cat-trees, the number of volunteers who come into cuddle and clean. having a roof over their heads, regular food andwater, observant medical care, playtime and affection--to ferals andstays, this is heaven.from what i've read from various sources, there were two groups ofcats in the house: 38 were in one group, 10 in the other. to me, thatsounds as if there was intentional segregation done, most likely, forhealth reasons (those being treated for uris, need food intakemonitored, chronic diarrhea), ie, the cats' benefit. as someone elsesaid, including that of too many vets!--even having one FeLV cat inthe house would be construed as
 mixing the quick and the dead. 38cats in a 10 x 12 room; not a good idea; 38 cats in a 24 x 30 room?whole different story. unless you have visited a sanctuary settingwhere the cats are free to roamwithin their own space, and have plenty of comforts (or, as bestfriends puts it re: housing FeLVs, "intellectualstimulation"--picturing here a full video collection and library!),most people have no idea of how well the cats get along, and howwell-adjusted they can be.cremation is VERY expensive if you are talking about 200 cats. whenyou're a 501(c)3, you have access to medication and testing kits,greatly-reduced food costs, and, frequently, vet care at an lowerrate. i'm not sure why her chosing to spend her money on the livingcats is to be faulted so strongly, especially when medical care on alarge scale is far less expensive than when one is doing it on anindividual basis.did she take on more than she could handle?
 probably--something ithink we ALL struggle with at one time or another. could she haveasked for help before the authorities got involved? probably. wasputting the bodies outside unburied a good idea--obviously not! noneof this says one word about whether these cats were loved and caredfor when it mattered.please don't forget that another thing she did was take

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

I would say mixing that MANY sick and healthy kitties and having that many animals remains shows cruelty...she could have called someone or even left the bodies outside the animal hospital if she did not want to answer questions.Barb Moermond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I agree that she made some very poor decisions, but until the authorities know exactly what is going on, and THEY know more than WE do, we just have the press, full judgment needs to be suspended until such time as deliberate cruelty is confirmed.  And yes, the animal cruelty laws need to be much much stronger.  Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

I agree, but she needs to be made an example of because what she did was WRONG.Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

He meant she needed help from the begin so it didn't esculate to this point. She should have asked for help. Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

How about 200 decaying kids in the back yard, would you say help that person out also?
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mia  She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry about the old litter that I bury in my back yard...  But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it would be much more to the rescue effort to help her out and save the good name of the  people that have worked with her... If it turns out that she was putting aside for her own enjoyment a lot of donations than thetas a different story but if she has just lost touch with reality which can easily be done in this rescue fight than I say give her a break and some help... Tad Mia Nicer wrote: 


Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am
 appauld that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which>
 she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to
 get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDIS

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

If she would have picked up the phone and called the local animal hospital I am sure they would have taken the dead animals...unless she did not want to answer questions, and that is just another mark against her.Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I agree...I would like to know the story behind the 200 dead animals...That makes no sense to me...But if she took in a lot of sick FeLV+...That is still a huge number to have outside and she has to be sick to let that happen..As I say there is a story behind that and I think we needto know it before we can pass judgment...TadCherie A Gabbert wrote:

How about 200 decaying kids in the back yard, would you say help that person out also?
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mia  She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry about the old litter that I bury in my back yard...  But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it would be much more to the rescue effort to help her out and save the good name of the  people that have worked with her... If it turns out that she was putting aside for her own enjoyment a lot of donations than thetas a different story but if she has just lost touch with reality which can easily be done in this rescue fight than I say give her a break and some help... Tad Mia Nicer wrote: 


Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am
 appauld that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which>
 she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to
 get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledger Staff> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan> as a> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her> rescue and> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she> took it home> herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for
 it

RE: KittyKind as a symbol--LONG LONG response!

when did we decide that a newspaper version of ANYTHING is accurate
and fair? what sells papers? "woman overwhelmed with departed cats;
living ones in good shape?"

I know nothing about the case except what I read here on the list, and
as MaryChristine points out you certainly cannot take newspaper articles
as gospel---they're always slanted, it's the nature of the business.
So, I feel unqualified to weigh in, apart from to thank MaryChristine
for a well-balanced and carefully considered reminder of all the factors
that should be taken into account.
Kerry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:50 PM
To: FeLVTalk
Subject: KittyKind as a symbol--LONG LONG response!


okay, here goes--this has been in draft form for a number of hours
now. i know it won't be popular, i just hope that it does make
people stop for a bit and maybe challenge themselves.

while i am not in ny/nj area, and have no personal experience with
KittyKind, i have heard excellent things about this
shelter/group from folks who are

from what i gather, marlene took home the sickly ones--the ones none of
the other rescues would touch. the sick, the elderly, the severely
abused before they reach our care--these cats DIE, with
heart-wrenching regularity. and no one who hasn't accepted the care of
a large number of the most-unfortunate seem to face that reality. and
how many have ever thought about what THEY would do, in the winter, in
the north, with the earthly remains of these finally-free cats?

no one seems to notice that they didn't remove the living cats from
her custody--even if i didn't have a real understanding of how these
things can happen--that would be enough for me to question how
terrible the conditions/her care really were.

38 cats in one room? well, depends on the size of the cats, the size
of the room, the number of litter boxes, the number of windows, the
ventilation, the toys/cat-trees, the number of volunteers who come in
to cuddle and clean. having a roof over their heads, regular food and
water, observant medical care, playtime and affection--to ferals and
stays, this is heaven.

from what i've read from various sources, there were two groups of
cats in the house: 38 were in one group, 10 in the other. to me, that
sounds as if there was intentional segregation done, most likely, for
health reasons (those being treated for uris, need food intake
monitored, chronic diarrhea), ie, the cats' benefit. as someone else
said, including that of too many vets!--even having one FeLV cat in
the house would be construed as mixing the quick and the dead.  38
cats in a 10 x 12 room; not a good idea; 38 cats in a 24 x 30 room?
whole different story. unless you have visited a sanctuary setting
where the cats are free to roam
within their own space, and have plenty of comforts (or, as best
friends puts it re: housing FeLVs, "intellectual
stimulation"--picturing here a full video collection and library!),
most people have no idea of how well the cats get along, and how
well-adjusted they can be.

cremation is VERY expensive if you are talking about 200 cats. when
you're a 501(c)3, you have access to medication and testing kits,
greatly-reduced food costs, and, frequently, vet care at an lower
rate. i'm not sure why her chosing to spend her money on the living
cats is to be faulted so strongly, especially when medical care on a
large scale is far less expensive than when one is doing it on an
individual basis.

did she take on more than she could handle? probably--something i
think we ALL struggle with at one time or another. could she have
asked for help before the authorities got involved? probably. was
putting the bodies outside unburied a good idea--obviously not! none
of this says one word about whether these cats were loved and cared
for when it mattered.

please don't forget that another thing she did was take in the cats
that no one else would.

there was something about her behavior giving the volunteers
permission to do the same thing--if more people WOULD take in the
most-undesirable, then no one single person would ever find themselves
in this situation again.

hopefully what her volunteers, and everyone else when they put
themselves in her place, will learn is to ask for help when it's
needed, to take a hard look at their own limits, and work to find ways
to create the no-kill nation that maddie's fund promotes.

when did we decide that a newspaper version of ANYTHING is accurate
and fair? what sells papers? "woman overwhelmed with departed cats;
living ones in good shape?"

every shelter/sanctuary i know of has freezers full of the left-behind
bodies--it's just something that the general public doesn't think
about, or want to know about. how long they're been there before they
can be buried or otherwise disposed of depends on the available
freezer space, as well as
the method of disposal and, in the case of burial, the wea

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Barb Moermond

I agree that she made some very poor decisions, but until the authorities know exactly what is going on, and THEY know more than WE do, we just have the press, full judgment needs to be suspended until such time as deliberate cruelty is confirmed.  And yes, the animal cruelty laws need to be much much stronger.  Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I agree, but she needs to be made an example of because what she did was WRONG.Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

He meant she needed help from the begin so it didn't esculate to this point. She should have asked for help. Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

How about 200 decaying kids in the back yard, would you say help that person out also?
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mia  She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry about the old litter that I bury in my back yard...  But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it would be much more to the rescue effort to help her out and save the good name of the  people that have worked with her... If it turns out that she was putting aside for her own enjoyment a lot of donations than thetas a different story but if she has just lost touch with reality which can easily be done in this rescue fight than I say give her a break and some help... Tad Mia Nicer wrote: 


Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am
 appauld that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which>
 she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to
 get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledger Staff> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan> as a> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her> rescue and> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she> took it home> herself, overseeing its recu

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

I agree...I would like to know the story behind the 200
dead animals...
That makes no sense to me...But if she took in a lot of sick FeLV+...
That is still a huge number to have outside and she has to be sick to 
let that happen..As I say there is a story behind that and I think we
need
to know it before we can pass judgment...
Tad

Cherie A Gabbert wrote:

  How about 200 decaying kids in the back yard, would you say help
that person out also?
  Cherie

  Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Hi Mia
  She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where
its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry
about the old litter that I bury in my back yard...

But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it
would be much more to the rescue effort to help her out and save the
good name of the  people that have worked with her...

If it turns out that she was putting aside for her own enjoyment a lot
of donations than thetas a different story but if she has just lost
touch with reality which can easily be done in this rescue fight than I
say give her a break and some help...

Tad 

Mia Nicer wrote:

  Thank you Tad.
I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation
but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved
and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't
happen with anyone else. 

  Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
  I
am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that 
counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You
can't 
save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd

most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse

there is no body to care for them...
The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...
Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put 
her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill 
shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance

her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she

enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than 
just locking her up

Tad

Cherie A Gabbert wrote:

> That is no excuse...I am appauld that anyone would stand up for
this 
> individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her 
> supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I
would 
> hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would
stand 
> up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open
a 
> shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that
is a 
> laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I
am 
> sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.
> 
> Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked
and 
> disgusted.
> Cherie
> 
>
> Mia Nicer wrote:
>
> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New
> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for
> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which
> she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I
> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I
> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have
> to say about it:
> 
> This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in
> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.
> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.
> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their
> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have
> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about
> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this
> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please
> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.
> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it
> harder for them to get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.

>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.
> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400
>
> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard
> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency
> Friday, May 20, 2005
> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON
> Star-Ledger Staff
> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan
> as a
> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her
> rescue and
> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she
> took it home
> herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for it until
> its death.
> Yesterday, authorities di

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

My point exactly, only extreme cases of animal cruelty make it to the news.Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Have you watched the news latelyEvery day there is a new story of some terable thing that has happened to kids by their parents or foster parents...TadCherie A Gabbert wrote:

I would love to, the only problem is, one voice does not amount to a hill of beans. As you can see from this topic not alot of people percieve animals and kids as one in the same.
Cherie"Gloria B. Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
How about changing the laws to agree with that...At 01:31 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:>In MY mind animals and kids are one and the same and SHOULD be thought of >EQUALLY, but I know this will never be, it is just how I put certain >scenerios in perspective.>Cherie>>>"Gloria B. Lane" wrote:>If you put "kids" in place of "animals', well - you wouldn't have>"breeders" (uh in the way that we do for cats), they wouldn't have a city>organization devoted to euthanizing (sometimes inhumainely), or they>wouldn't be running loose on the street clawing thru the garbage - well not>as much. And people might care more.>>Gloria>>At 12:30 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:>>> >Cherie A Gabbert wrote:Put kids in place of the>
 >animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail,> >but instead working with other kids?> >> >Ah...no..you'll get the more emotional response from me if you leave> >"animals" just where it is...> >> >I love kids too, but at least they can speak up in the same language.> >> >Trust mepeople who delibertly or through ignorance hurt animals &> >children...well, they are the lowest of the low.> >> >I DO believe she should be punished...and it never occured to me that she> >had done something delibertly to hasten their deaths, but fixing a> >problem, or trying too does more in the long run than just punishing for> >the acts... This woman is prob. a "collector" who got in over her> >head...then who do you go too? Your friends and family think you're> >nuts...just "get rid of them, they're ONLY
 animals..." but it would break> >your heart to do so, no one understands so you'll just do it all> >yourself..you'll show them> >> >I believe she needs therapy first...then it can be decided HOW to> >proceed...were the acts intentional...out of frustrationor the> >by-product of over empathy that turned into a logic & reality breakdown?> >> >The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. God help us all.>Have a purrfect day>Cherie>
Have a purrfect day
Cherie
 Have a purrfect day
Cherie

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

I agree, but she needs to be made an example of because what she did was WRONG.Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

He meant she needed help from the begin so it didn't esculate to this point. She should have asked for help. Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

How about 200 decaying kids in the back yard, would you say help that person out also?
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mia  She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry about the old litter that I bury in my back yard...  But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it would be much more to the rescue effort to help her out and save the good name of the  people that have worked with her... If it turns out that she was putting aside for her own enjoyment a lot of donations than thetas a different story but if she has just lost touch with reality which can easily be done in this rescue fight than I say give her a break and some help... Tad Mia Nicer wrote: 


Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am
 appauld that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which>
 she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to
 get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledger Staff> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan> as a> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her> rescue and> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she> took it home> herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for
 it until> its death.> Yesterday, authorities discovered what Kess' philosophy looked> like in> practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a> neighbor complaining> about a stench, city health inspectors found 48 cats inside> the house -- 38> of them in one room -- and more than 200 dead cats stuffed> into garbage bags> in th

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

I am nowhere near perfect, and I am on that soap box also, that family should be investigated.alot of families should be, but when one actually gets found out I think an example should be made. Kess needs to be made an example of...and laws are way too lax where animals are concerned.
 
I also am very lucky to have all you listed to stand behind me, but I would still have my furr family even without them, I love my "kids" (of course my 5 yr old boy is first and foremost) and he is also another reason I will not expand right now, I would be taking away from him more than I am now, which is not fair by far.
Barb Moermond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

frankly, I don't see that happening here - as overworked as a lot of child protective agencies are, there are too many checks and balances and places where kids are noticed - the neighbors would have called months ago f'rinstance.  There are simply far more laws and societal rules in place to protect children and while there are definitely problems with the system, this society cares more about kids than animals (however little the difference may seem to be).  NO, I don't think she should get away with this scot-free, but are YOU perfect?  Have you never made a mis-judgment that could have snowballed?  Being diligent about your animal's housing conditions is fabulous and that your vet thinks you can and should handle more is great.  What if you didn't have that vet?  What if you didn't have a good support network?  What if you had severe emotional problems that just blew out of control in the middle of that?
 
We as a society are so quick to say "*I* would never have let "x" happen" - and maybe most of the time that's accurate, but it isn't 100%...  Our society has some serious ills and our energy would be better spent trying to alter the thinking that makes it OK to dump unwanted animals or not spay/neuter or abuse those weaker than ourselves and maybe if we all developed more compassion for all of our fellow creatures and left the judging up to the higher powers (and the law), we could start to solve the problem of so many overflowing shelters and unwanted animals...
 
There is a huge disparity between having kids and being parents.  I see it all the time where I live and I've come to the conclusion that humans should have to take parenting classes and become licensed in order to be able to procreate.  It makes me nuts - former downstairs neighbor, 2 adults and 4 kids in a 2 bedroom 1 bath apt.  The kids were always running around making LOTS of noise, never any supervision and when I would hear an adult voice, it would be yelling ugly things at the kids.  People coming and going at all hours and then they got a puppy  I would hear it whining and whining  they'd had it locked in the bathroom - so neither the kids nor the puppy were getting what I would consider a good upbringing...  I also had to call the police several times because of screaming throwing arguments from them...  how is THAT raising those kids properly?  anyhoo - big tangent here:)
 
stepping off soap-box!!Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

How about 200 decaying kids in the back yard, would you say help that person out also?
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mia  She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry about the old litter that I bury in my back yard...  But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it would be much more to the rescue effort to help her out and save the good name of the  people that have worked with her... If it turns out that she was putting aside for her own enjoyment a lot of donations than thetas a different story but if she has just lost touch with reality which can easily be done in this rescue fight than I say give her a break and some help... Tad Mia Nicer wrote: 


Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbe

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

But Joan The volunteers and fosters are not resposible for the animals that Kess takes home. Joan Doljan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Cherie,
The foster and volunteers are not ignorant. I understand you are mad at this woman but don't take it out on people that did not know -some are more upset than you. What if they were led to believe these animals were adopted or healthy and ok. Remember Kess has been doing this animal rescue thing for years- You would think she would know what the right thing to do was more than anyone. How do you know they didn't think they were ok or placed in great foster homes like their own. Please try to be a little more opened minded. I believe if they even had the smallest bit of evidence from her that something was wrong someone would have done something.
a lot of those volunteers are amazing kind animal lovers and would never let anything like this happen let alone turn their head like you are suggesting. They love helping animals -I know this because i know some of them. There are

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]





Have you watched the news latelyEvery day there is
a new story of some terable thing that has happened to kids by their
parents or foster parents...
Tad


Cherie A Gabbert wrote:

  I would love to, the only problem is, one voice does not amount
to a hill of beans. As you can see from this topic not alot of people
percieve animals and kids as one in the same.
  Cherie
  
  "Gloria B. Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  How
about changing the laws to agree with that...

At 01:31 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:
>In MY mind animals and kids are one and the same and SHOULD be
thought of 
>EQUALLY, but I know this will never be, it is just how I put
certain 
>scenerios in perspective.
>Cherie
>
>
>"Gloria B. Lane" wrote:
>If you put "kids" in place of "animals', well - you wouldn't have
>"breeders" (uh in the way that we do for cats), they wouldn't have
a city
>organization devoted to euthanizing (sometimes inhumainely), or they
>wouldn't be running loose on the street clawing thru the garbage -
well not
>as much. And people might care more.
>
>Gloria
>
>At 12:30 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:
>
>
> >Cherie A Gabbert wrote:Put kids in place of the
> >animals and think about it that way, would you want her not
going to jail,
> >but instead working with other kids?
> >
> >Ah...no..you'll get the more emotional response from me if you
leave
> >"animals" just where it is...
> >
> >I love kids too, but at least they can speak up in the same
language.
> >
> >Trust mepeople who delibertly or through ignorance hurt
animals &
> >children...well, they are the lowest of the low.
> >
> >I DO believe she should be punished...and it never occured to
me that she
> >had done something delibertly to hasten their deaths, but
fixing a
> >problem, or trying too does more in the long run than just
punishing for
> >the acts... This woman is prob. a "collector" who got in over
her
> >head...then who do you go too? Your friends and family think
you're
> >nuts...just "get rid of them, they're ONLY animals..." but it
would break
> >your heart to do so, no one understands so you'll just do it
all
> >yourself..you'll show them
> >
> >I believe she needs therapy first...then it can be decided HOW
to
> >proceed...were the acts intentional...out of frustrationor
the
> >by-product of over empathy that turned into a logic &
reality breakdown?
> >
> >The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. God help us
all.
>
>
>
>
>Have a purrfect day
>Cherie
>



  
  
  Have a purrfect day
  Cherie

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

He meant she needed help from the begin so it didn't esculate to this point. She should have asked for help. Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

How about 200 decaying kids in the back yard, would you say help that person out also?
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mia  She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry about the old litter that I bury in my back yard...  But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it would be much more to the rescue effort to help her out and save the good name of the  people that have worked with her... If it turns out that she was putting aside for her own enjoyment a lot of donations than thetas a different story but if she has just lost touch with reality which can easily be done in this rescue fight than I say give her a break and some help... Tad Mia Nicer wrote: 


Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am
 appauld that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which>
 she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to
 get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledger Staff> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan> as a> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her> rescue and> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she> took it home> herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for
 it until> its death.> Yesterday, authorities discovered what Kess' philosophy looked> like in> practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a> neighbor complaining> about a stench, city health inspectors found 48 cats inside> the house -- 38> of them in one room -- and more than 200 dead cats stuffed> into garbage bags> in the back yard.> The sight of so many decomposing corpses -- and the fetid odor> they> produced -- sickened animal-welfar

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Barb Moermond

frankly, I don't see that happening here - as overworked as a lot of child protective agencies are, there are too many checks and balances and places where kids are noticed - the neighbors would have called months ago f'rinstance.  There are simply far more laws and societal rules in place to protect children and while there are definitely problems with the system, this society cares more about kids than animals (however little the difference may seem to be).  NO, I don't think she should get away with this scot-free, but are YOU perfect?  Have you never made a mis-judgment that could have snowballed?  Being diligent about your animal's housing conditions is fabulous and that your vet thinks you can and should handle more is great.  What if you didn't have that vet?  What if you didn't have a good support network?  What if you had severe emotional problems that just blew out of control in the middle of that?
 
We as a society are so quick to say "*I* would never have let "x" happen" - and maybe most of the time that's accurate, but it isn't 100%...  Our society has some serious ills and our energy would be better spent trying to alter the thinking that makes it OK to dump unwanted animals or not spay/neuter or abuse those weaker than ourselves and maybe if we all developed more compassion for all of our fellow creatures and left the judging up to the higher powers (and the law), we could start to solve the problem of so many overflowing shelters and unwanted animals...
 
There is a huge disparity between having kids and being parents.  I see it all the time where I live and I've come to the conclusion that humans should have to take parenting classes and become licensed in order to be able to procreate.  It makes me nuts - former downstairs neighbor, 2 adults and 4 kids in a 2 bedroom 1 bath apt.  The kids were always running around making LOTS of noise, never any supervision and when I would hear an adult voice, it would be yelling ugly things at the kids.  People coming and going at all hours and then they got a puppy  I would hear it whining and whining  they'd had it locked in the bathroom - so neither the kids nor the puppy were getting what I would consider a good upbringing...  I also had to call the police several times because of screaming throwing arguments from them...  how is THAT raising those kids properly?  anyhoo - big tangent here:)
 
stepping off soap-box!!Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

How about 200 decaying kids in the back yard, would you say help that person out also?
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mia  She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry about the old litter that I bury in my back yard...  But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it would be much more to the rescue effort to help her out and save the good name of the  people that have worked with her... If it turns out that she was putting aside for her own enjoyment a lot of donations than thetas a different story but if she has just lost touch with reality which can easily be done in this rescue fight than I say give her a break and some help... Tad Mia Nicer wrote: 


Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am
 appauld that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >>

Re: Jersey

2005-05-24 Thread Terri Brown





I have nothing to add to what has already been suggested except to wish you 
the best of luck.
 
Welcome!
 
=^..^= Terri, Salome', Siggie the Tomato Vampire, Guinevere, Sammi, and 5 
furangels: RuthieGirl, Samantha, Arielle, Gareth and Alec =^..^=
 
Furkid Photos! http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7sgqa/My 
FeLV Site: http://pages.ivillage.com/ruthiegirl1/MyFeLVinformationSite/My 
Personal Page: http://www.geocities.com/ruthiegirl1/terrispage.html?1083970447350

  - Original Message - 
  From: Nina 
  
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:22 PM
  Subject: Re: Jersey
  Stan,What a sweetheart you are!  I'm praying that 
  Jersey recovers from whatever is causing the eating and back leg 
  problems.  We have discussed all sorts of feeding tips to get kitties 
  interested in food when they don't feel well enough to eat.  Let us 
  know if you can't find them in the archives and we'll post more about 
  it.  FelV is a devastating diagnosis, but our angels can and do lead 
  happy healthy lives, (although usually shorter ones).  I'm glad you 
  found this group, keep us informed about the two of 
  you.Ninastany petrov wrote:> Hi 
  Belinda,>>  >> Thanks for the 
  information.>> I am going to take Jersey to the vet tomorrow. I 
  took him on Friday, > they kept him in the clinic for tests and the 
  doctor called me in the > evening. I was shoked to hear he has a 
  leukimia and could hardly catch > what she was explaining me. I am 
  going to talk with her tomorrow > afternoon.>> Now, I 
  give Jersey some yoke and cream cheese. He rejects the diet > food from 
  the vet. He likes margarine but I use that only to give him > some 
  vitamins.>> I cannot believe that disease is so spread in the 
  USA. In Bulgaria, > where I come from I have never heard for cat 
  cancer. Cats usually die > from accidents or age. I am really amazed to 
  read that 60 million cats > in the US carry this virus. Something has 
  to be done.>>  >> Thanks again. Keep in 
  touch>>  >> 
  Stan> >From: Belinda Sauro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> 
  >Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> 
  >To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> 
  >Subject: Re: Jersey> >Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 08:12:50 
  -0700> >> >   Hi Stan,> >  There 
  is a CRF (chronic renal failure) group on Yahoo you may want> >to 
  join, I've heard of kitties with crf that get weak in the back> 
  >legs it has something to do with the potassium level.  Here is 
  the> >group if your interested.  CRF can be managed if caugh 
  early enough,> >it usually requires a diet change and careful 
  monitoring.> >> 
  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/> >> >Also you 
  have to be sure Jersey is getting enough food or your> >asking for a 
  whole different group of complications.  What treatment> >has 
  your vet suggested?> >> >--> >Belinda> 
  >Happiness is being owned by cats ...> >> 
  >Be-Mi-Kitties ...> >http://www.bemikitties.com> 
  >> >Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens> 
  >http://adopt.bemikitties.com> >> >FeLV Candle Light 
  Service> >http://www.bemikitties.com/cls> >> 
  >HostDesign4U.com  (affordable hosting & web design)> 
  >http://HostDesign4U.com> >> >---> 
  >> >BMK Designs (non-profit web sites)> 
  >http://bmk.bemikitties.com> >> 
>

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

But Joan The volunteers and fosters are not resposible for the animals that Kess takes home. Joan Doljan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

KittyKind as a symbol--LONG LONG response!

okay, here goes--this has been in draft form for a number of hours
now. i know it won't be popular, i just hope that it does make
people stop for a bit and maybe challenge themselves.

while i am not in ny/nj area, and have no personal experience with
KittyKind, i have heard excellent things about this
shelter/group from folks who are

from what i gather, marlene took home the sickly ones--the ones none of
the other rescues would touch. the sick, the elderly, the severely
abused before they reach our care--these cats DIE, with
heart-wrenching regularity. and no one who hasn't accepted the care of
a large number of the most-unfortunate seem to face that reality. and
how many have ever thought about what THEY would do, in the winter, in
the north, with the earthly remains of these finally-free cats?

no one seems to notice that they didn't remove the living cats from
her custody--even if i didn't have a real understanding of how these
things can happen--that would be enough for me to question how
terrible the conditions/her care really were.

38 cats in one room? well, depends on the size of the cats, the size
of the room, the number of litter boxes, the number of windows, the
ventilation, the toys/cat-trees, the number of volunteers who come in
to cuddle and clean. having a roof over their heads, regular food and
water, observant medical care, playtime and affection--to ferals and
stays, this is heaven.

from what i've read from various sources, there were two groups of
cats in the house: 38 were in one group, 10 in the other. to me, that
sounds as if there was intentional segregation done, most likely, for
health reasons (those being treated for uris, need food intake
monitored, chronic diarrhea), ie, the cats' benefit. as someone else
said, including that of too many vets!--even having one FeLV cat in
the house would be construed as mixing the quick and the dead.  38
cats in a 10 x 12 room; not a good idea; 38 cats in a 24 x 30 room?
whole different story. unless you have visited a sanctuary setting
where the cats are free to roam
within their own space, and have plenty of comforts (or, as best
friends puts it re: housing FeLVs, "intellectual
stimulation"--picturing here a full video collection and library!),
most people have no idea of how well the cats get along, and how
well-adjusted they can be.

cremation is VERY expensive if you are talking about 200 cats. when
you're a 501(c)3, you have access to medication and testing kits,
greatly-reduced food costs, and, frequently, vet care at an lower
rate. i'm not sure why her chosing to spend her money on the living
cats is to be faulted so strongly, especially when medical care on a
large scale is far less expensive than when one is doing it on an
individual basis.

did she take on more than she could handle? probably--something i
think we ALL struggle with at one time or another. could she have
asked for help before the authorities got involved? probably. was
putting the bodies outside unburied a good idea--obviously not! none
of this says one word about whether these cats were loved and cared
for when it mattered.

please don't forget that another thing she did was take in the cats
that no one else would.

there was something about her behavior giving the volunteers
permission to do the same thing--if more people WOULD take in the
most-undesirable, then no one single person would ever find themselves
in this situation again.

hopefully what her volunteers, and everyone else when they put
themselves in her place, will learn is to ask for help when it's
needed, to take a hard look at their own limits, and work to find ways
to create the no-kill nation that maddie's fund promotes.

when did we decide that a newspaper version of ANYTHING is accurate
and fair? what sells papers? "woman overwhelmed with departed cats;
living ones in good shape?"

every shelter/sanctuary i know of has freezers full of the left-behind
bodies--it's just something that the general public doesn't think
about, or want to know about. how long they're been there before they
can be buried or otherwise disposed of depends on the available
freezer space, as well as
the method of disposal and, in the case of burial, the weather. it is
NOT unusual in the north to end a winter season with a large number of
bodies. sick cats DIE--i've read nothing that implies that these cats
all died recently, nor in great numbers at any one time.

i have NOT see the video footage, so cannot comment on that. i do know
that animal control would have removed the living cats if there was
cause.
there are also realities about caring for a large number of
"undesirables" that differ from what one would do in their own
home--perfectly clean litterboxes will not be clean in 5 minutes;
there is gonna be loose fur and hairballs and thrown-up meals, and
dumped food and water bowls no matter what. whomever said that cats
are neat animals has never lived with a large number of them at once!
it's a never-ending job, a

Re: Way OT - Tyson skateboarding

2005-05-24 Thread Terri Brown

Title: Tyson's Pictures and Movies




LOL

  - Original Message - 
  From: Nina 
  
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:05 AM
  Subject: Way OT - Tyson 
  skateboarding
  Hello Everyone,I thought we could all use some comic 
  relief.  I have to warn you though, if you have any dogs, you may 
  want to clear them from the room before you watch these.  One of the 
  video clips set Zevon, (my German Shep Dog) racing around the house 
  barking looking for whoever was making that really fun noise!)Love you 
  guys,Ninahttp://www.skateboardingbulldog.com/picsandmovies.htm
  Pictures & Movies of 
  Tyson
   
  Skating   
  
  These pictures capture Tyson 
  skating near the Huntington Beach Pier in October 2003 (photography courtesy 
  of Rick, at 
  HBPier.com):
   
  Movies of Tyson 
  skating:
  Tyson, the Roller Dog
  For Windows Media Viewer
  tysonbeachap.wmv  slomotyson1mbwmv.wmv  tysonskateboarding.wmv   
  6.5mbsktrb6.5.wmv 
  For Quicktime Player
  tysonbeachapril.mov   slomotyson1mb.mov    tysonvideoapril.mov 
  6.5mbsktrb6.57mb.mov
  Puppyhood
   
  Sleepy 
  baby.   
   Still sleepy...
   
  He's 
awake!   
   The inquisitive head tilt.
   
  Time for more 
  Zzz's.
   
  Being 
  cute.
   
  Hey!
     Tyson's seatbelt.
     Staring into your soul.
    
  Naptime again. 
   
  Holidays 
   
  Spring Flower, part 1 (going along with 
  it). 
   
  Spring Flower, part 2 (growing 
  impatient).
   
  King 
  Tyson.  
   Sleepy trick-or-treater.  
    Bosom buddies. 
  (Additional pictures of Tyson with his kitties can be found here.)
      Must be Santa...
      Did you bring anything for me?
   
  What Tyson loves most about Christmas - 
  opening his presents!
   
  Life  
  
   Mr. Pouty-face (moping because he can't go 
  skating).
    Tyson's shades.
      Another pastime.
    Goofball.
    Tyson's favorite chair.
   
  What a stud!
     Handsome boy.
     Where's the beef?
    Tyson's lion.

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Mia,
The animals already have suffered, I just want Kess to suffer also..I would do anything to help the animals, maybe not so much the volunteers and the founder but at least the animals always come first.
CherieMia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I am totally with you on that Tad. I think she should not have let this happen and am so worried of all the people that volunteered their time to help the animals in this group. Alot of them are worried all their efforts will be forgotten, their names have badmouthed and are already getting horrble words said to them and spread about them. Not only are they sad and angry but also embarrassed and humiliated. People are no longer wanting to adopt from them and I feel so bad because most of the animals are in great foster homes with great people and now they are going to have such a hard time finding homes **like it wasn't hard enough.. I really think she needs to seperate the remaining animals -if not have them taken away from her. All those bags of corpses broke my heart, just writting this bring me to tears. Kess said she wanted to dispose of the humanely and in the end they got a worse disposal than ever imagined. 
 
I just wish she asked for help. I really think someone should maybe check how the funds were used. I really hope on the animals and not for her benefit. If so it just makes it 3x more harder for groups that really need it to get the help and you know how many could really use some help. Im pretty sure you like me and most rescuers out there use most of you own funds on you animals than on yourself.
 
Thanks so much for being open minded to this situation. Its nice to no someone feels the same way I do. I was thinking maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all. I just didn't want the animals to suffer after this event and let other know out there that not all the cats were with Marlene and most were in other great foster homes with amazing people and not in situations like the one seen on tv.
 
Thanks again,
MiaTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mia  She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry about the old litter that I bury in my back yard...  But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it would be much more to the rescue effort to help her out and save the good name of the  people that have worked with her... If it turns out that she was putting aside for her own enjoyment a lot of donations than thetas a different story but if she has just lost touch with reality which can easily be done in this rescue fight than I say give her a break and some help... Tad Mia Nicer wrote: 


Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am
 appauld that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which>
 she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the

RE: OT cat-safe roach control

Did it do the trick, Gloria? 'Cos we also got an alert recently about
rats being seen on some of my condo neighbors porches. Do you know if
they can be fitted easily to repel critters roaming outside like rats?
(I don't know if your critters were in garage/attic or what--we don't
have attics or garages)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gloria B. Lane
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 2:05 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT cat-safe roach control

I've used the sonic ones, but only for squirrel s and rats..

Gloria

At 01:12 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:
>i've often wondered about the electronic ones, too--wonder if there's
>a consumer-ratings place? consumer reports?
>
>--
>MaryChristine
>
>AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
>MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>ICQ: 289856892

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This 
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the 
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not 
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

I am totally with you on that Tad. I think she should not have let this happen and am so worried of all the people that volunteered their time to help the animals in this group. Alot of them are worried all their efforts will be forgotten, their names have badmouthed and are already getting horrble words said to them and spread about them. Not only are they sad and angry but also embarrassed and humiliated. People are no longer wanting to adopt from them and I feel so bad because most of the animals are in great foster homes with great people and now they are going to have such a hard time finding homes **like it wasn't hard enough.. I really think she needs to seperate the remaining animals -if not have them taken away from her. All those bags of corpses broke my heart, just writting this bring me to tears. Kess said she wanted to dispose of the humanely and in the end they got a worse disposal than ever imagined.
I just wish she asked for help. I really think someone should maybe check how the funds were used. I really hope on the animals and not for her benefit. If so it just makes it 3x more harder for groups that really need it to get the help and you know how many could really use some help. Im pretty sure you like me and most rescuers out there use most of you own funds on you animals than on yourself.
Thanks so much for being open minded to this situation. Its nice to no someone feels the same way I do. I was thinking maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all. I just didn't want the animals to suffer after this event and let other know out there that not all the cats were with Marlene and most were in other great foster homes with amazing people and not in situations like the one seen on tv.
Thanks again,
MiaTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mia She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry about the old litter that I bury in my back yard... But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it would be much more to the rescue effort to help her out and save the good name of the people that have worked with her... If it turns out that she was putting aside for her own enjoyment a lot of donations than thetas a different story but if she has just lost touch with reality which can easily be done in this rescue fight than I say give her a break and some help... Tad Mia Nicer wrote:

Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am
appauld that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which>
she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

How about 200 decaying kids in the back yard, would you say help that person out also?
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mia  She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry about the old litter that I bury in my back yard...  But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it would be much more to the rescue effort to help her out and save the good name of the  people that have worked with her... If it turns out that she was putting aside for her own enjoyment a lot of donations than thetas a different story but if she has just lost touch with reality which can easily be done in this rescue fight than I say give her a break and some help... Tad Mia Nicer wrote: 


Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am
 appauld that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which>
 she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to
 get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledger Staff> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan> as a> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her> rescue and> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she> took it home> herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for
 it until> its death.> Yesterday, authorities discovered what Kess' philosophy looked> like in> practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a> neighbor complaining> about a stench, city health inspectors found 48 cats inside> the house -- 38> of them in one room -- and more than 200 dead cats stuffed> into garbage bags> in the back yard.> The sight of so many decomposing corpses -- and the fetid odor> they> produced -- sickened animal-welfare officers and others who> responded to the> two-story home on State Street.> "Oh my God, it was awful," said Michael Fowler of the> Associated Humane> So

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

I would love to, the only problem is, one voice does not amount to a hill of beans. As you can see from this topic not alot of people percieve animals and kids as one in the same.
Cherie"Gloria B. Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
How about changing the laws to agree with that...At 01:31 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:>In MY mind animals and kids are one and the same and SHOULD be thought of >EQUALLY, but I know this will never be, it is just how I put certain >scenerios in perspective.>Cherie>>>"Gloria B. Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>If you put "kids" in place of "animals', well - you wouldn't have>"breeders" (uh in the way that we do for cats), they wouldn't have a city>organization devoted to euthanizing (sometimes inhumainely), or they>wouldn't be running loose on the street clawing thru the garbage - well not>as much. And people might care more.>>Gloria>>At 12:30 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:>>> >Cherie A Gabbert wrote:Put kids in place of the> >animals and
 think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail,> >but instead working with other kids?> >> >Ah...no..you'll get the more emotional response from me if you leave> >"animals" just where it is...> >> >I love kids too, but at least they can speak up in the same language.> >> >Trust mepeople who delibertly or through ignorance hurt animals &> >children...well, they are the lowest of the low.> >> >I DO believe she should be punished...and it never occured to me that she> >had done something delibertly to hasten their deaths, but fixing a> >problem, or trying too does more in the long run than just punishing for> >the acts... This woman is prob. a "collector" who got in over her> >head...then who do you go too? Your friends and family think you're> >nuts...just "get rid of them, they're ONLY animals..." but it
 would break> >your heart to do so, no one understands so you'll just do it all> >yourself..you'll show them> >> >I believe she needs therapy first...then it can be decided HOW to> >proceed...were the acts intentional...out of frustrationor the> >by-product of over empathy that turned into a logic & reality breakdown?> >> >The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. God help us all.>Have a purrfect day>Cherie>Have a purrfect day
Cherie

Re: Jersey

2005-05-24 Thread stany petrov


Thanks to all that responded to Jersey. 
Barbara, I am in Toledo, OH. I don't know if the vet has a lot of experience with FeLV. I will try to talk with her about that tomorrow.
I read the site about CRF. It is very detailed really. I believe that is the problem he has now. 
Hopefully it is not late to start treating it. 
Thanks for the food and diet information. I will try the baby food and hope it works.
I will keep you in touch with what happens tomorrow in the clinic.
Thanks again
 
Stan>From: Barbara Lowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>Subject: Re: Jersey>Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 13:52:32 -0400>>Hello,>I assume your vet ran a complete blood work on Jersey which discovered the virus.>How long has your cat not been eating cat food? Ask your vet for the Science Diet a/d cans. Many of the science diet canned foods are too dry-I know my cats will not eat any of it.  the a/d cans are very very soft food--perhaps Jersey will like that. You can try putting some on a spoon and smearing it along the side of his mouth so he will be at least taste it and perhaps be tempted. Also baby food jars-beef, chicken, lamb might tempt Jersey to eat. make sure no onions in the ingredients.>I agree with Belinda's suggestion 
to go to the Chronic Renal Failure CRF group for advice.>How experienced is your vet with leukemia treatments?  Ask if there is a specialist vet in the area? May I ask, what state are you in? perhaps someone on the list can recommend a vet.>Good luck taking care of Jersey. He is lucky he found you.>regards>Barbara>   - Original Message ->   From: stany petrov>   To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>   Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 11:32 AM>   Subject: Re: Jersey>>>   Hi Belinda,   Thanks for the information.>>   I am going to take Jersey to the vet tomorrow. I took him on Friday, they kept him in the clinic for tests and the doctor called me in the evening. I was shoked 
to hear he has a leukimia and could hardly catch what she was explaining me. I am going to talk with her tomorrow afternoon.>>   Now, I give Jersey some yoke and cream cheese. He rejects the diet food from the vet. He likes margarine but I use that only to give him some vitamins.>>   I cannot believe that disease is so spread in the USA. In Bulgaria, where I come from I have never heard for cat cancer. Cats usually die from accidents or age. I am really amazed to read that 60 million cats in the US carry this virus. Something has to be done.   Thanks again. Keep in touch   Stan>>>   >From: Belinda Sauro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>   >Reply-To: 
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>   >To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>   >Subject: Re: Jersey>   >Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 08:12:50 -0700>   >>   >   Hi Stan,>   >  There is a CRF (chronic renal failure) group on Yahoo you may want>   >to join, I've heard of kitties with crf that get weak in the back>   >legs it has something to do with the potassium level.  Here is the>   >group if your interested.  CRF can be managed if caugh early enough,>   >it usually requires a diet change and careful monitoring.>   >>   >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/>   >>   >Also you have to be 
sure Jersey is getting enough food or your>   >asking for a whole different group of complications.  What treatment>   >has your vet suggested?>   >>   >-->   >Belinda>   >Happiness is being owned by cats ...>   >>   >Be-Mi-Kitties ...>   >http://www.bemikitties.com>   >>   >Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens>   >http://adopt.bemikitties.com>   >>   >FeLV Candle Light Service>   >http://www.bemikitties.com/cls>   >>   >HostDesign4U.com  (affordable hosting & web design)>   
>http://HostDesign4U.com>   >>   >--->   >>   >BMK Designs (non-profit web sites)>   >http://bmk.bemikitties.com>   >>   >>

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

I am glad I am not the only one, who looks further into these people. I have seen some deplorable places, and they did not think anything was wrong.
CherieJoan Doljan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Ignorance, is not an excuse the fosters and volunteers should have asked questions and inquired about the sick kitties would have been humane

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]





Hi Mia
  She has a problem no doubt..to keep 200 decaying bodies outside where
its bound to attract the neighbors...I have 27 un adaptable and I worry
about the old litter that I bury in my back yard...
  
But she has apparently saved many cats over the years and I think it
would be much more to the rescue effort to help her out and save the
good name of the  people that have worked with her...
 
If it turns out that she was putting aside for her own enjoyment a lot
of donations than thetas a different story but if she has just lost
touch with reality which can easily be done in this rescue fight than I
say give her a break and some help...
 
Tad 

Mia Nicer wrote:

  
  Thank you Tad. I
don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation
but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved
and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't
happen with anyone else. 
  
  Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  I
am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that 
counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You
can't 
save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd

most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse

there is no body to care for them...
The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...
Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put 
her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill 
shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance

her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she

enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than 
just locking her up

Tad

Cherie A Gabbert wrote:

> That is no excuse...I am appauld that anyone would stand up for
this 
> individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her 
> supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I
would 
> hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would
stand 
> up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open
a 
> shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that
is a 
> laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I
am 
> sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.
> 
> Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked
and 
> disgusted.
> Cherie
> 
>
> Mia Nicer wrote:
>
> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New
> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for
> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which
> she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I
> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I
> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have
> to say about it:
> 
> This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in
> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.
> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.
> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their
> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have
> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about
> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this
> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please
> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.
> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it
> harder for them to get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.

>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.
> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400
>
> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard
> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency
> Friday, May 20, 2005
> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON
> Star-Ledger Staff
> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan
> as a
> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her
> rescue and
> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she
> took it home
> herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for it until
> its death.
> Yesterday, authorities discovered what Kess' philosophy looked
> like in
> practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a
> neighbor complaining
> about a stench, city health inspectors found 48 cats inside
> the house -- 38
> of them in one room -- and more than 200 dead cats stuffed
> into garbage bags
> in the back yard.
> The sight of so many decomposing corpses -- and the fetid odor
> they
> produced -- sickened animal-welfare officers and others who
> responded to the
> two-story home on State Street.
> "Oh my God, it was awful," said Michael Fowler of the
> Associate

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

How about changing the laws to agree with that...

At 01:31 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:
In MY mind animals and kids are one and the same and SHOULD be thought of 
EQUALLY, but I know this will never be, it is just how I put certain 
scenerios in perspective.

Cherie

"Gloria B. Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If you put "kids" in place of "animals', well - you wouldn't have
"breeders" (uh in the way that we do for cats), they wouldn't have a city
organization devoted to euthanizing (sometimes inhumainely), or they
wouldn't be running loose on the street clawing thru the garbage - well not
as much. And people might care more.

Gloria

At 12:30 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:

>Cherie A Gabbert wrote:Put kids in place of the
>animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail,
>but instead working with other kids?
>
>Ah...no..you'll get the more emotional response from me if you leave
>"animals" just where it is...
>
>I love kids too, but at least they can speak up in the same language.
>
>Trust mepeople who delibertly or through ignorance hurt animals &
>children...well, they are the lowest of the low.
>
>I DO believe she should be punished...and it never occured to me that she
>had done something delibertly to hasten their deaths, but fixing a
>problem, or trying too does more in the long run than just punishing for
>the acts... This woman is prob. a "collector" who got in over her
>head...then who do you go too? Your friends and family think you're
>nuts...just "get rid of them, they're ONLY animals..." but it would break
>your heart to do so, no one understands so you'll just do it all
>yourself..you'll show them
>
>I believe she needs therapy first...then it can be decided HOW to
>proceed...were the acts intentional...out of frustrationor the
>by-product of over empathy that turned into a logic & reality breakdown?
>
>The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. God help us all.

Have a purrfect day
Cherie

Re: OT cat-safe roach control


I've used the sonic ones, but only for squirrel s and rats..

Gloria


At 01:12 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:

i've often wondered about the electronic ones, too--wonder if there's
a consumer-ratings place? consumer reports?

--
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Joan Doljan

RE: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]


Now we just need to get our thoughts know to all.That is a big job
Cherie"Doljan, Joan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


That would be fine with me!


-Original Message-From: Cherie A Gabbert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:39 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CATRESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Good thought, how about a metal health facility to be evaluated for 60 days, that is a lighter sentence and she will still feel the repercussions of her actions.Joan Doljan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

I don't know if she should serve jail time, but I agree that she should NOT work with animals. I think a mental health expert needs to evaluate the best course of action to treat her.
 
JoanCherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I think the reason for jail time would be to isolate her from the animal community, she might have done more harm than good and the act of putting dead animals one after another in garbage bags is diplorable. Think about how long it takes for an animal to pass, and then consider the amount of dead animals she had, and if they all passed within a short time of each other, then the other question is what killed them all so close together.
 
I do not think she is sane enough to be allowed to work anywhere near animals.
 
Put kids in place of the animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail, but instead working with other kids?
Cherietamara stickler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I agree with Tad.  Punishment does very little to solve the problem...helping her to find another solution...would seem more reasonable.  But I'd go a step farther, she would work at the shelter, but not handle money  or be a major decision maker...she needs to learn, not lead at this point.  Plus, a little psycological help is prob. needed tooTCherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

That is being to kind, she needs to be put in jail and given her just deserts, how would you feel if she had sick and healthy kids in one room, and their bodies in the back yard in bags because she could not afford creamation.animals and kids need us more than any one else, they can not defend themselves, they need our guidance and they trust us to give it to them.
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am appauld
 that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which> she has put
 the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to get their
 cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>>

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Ignorance, is not an excuse the fosters and volunteers should have asked questions and inquired about the sick kitties would have been humane and kind hearted.
I hope the adoption rate goes up for the shelter and Kess gets what is coming to her...I am so enraged by this, sad for the animals but angry about the woman
Animals and children look to us to help, care and protect them...and as usual we have failed, and this woman is to blame.
CherieMia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

To everyone in this group,
Please do not take my recent email as a defense to Kitty Kind or this organization.
Again I am not affiliated with them and believe wh

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

We are all working towards happy home life solutions for all our furry friends. That is why I think she should not be able to come near animals and care giving.
Cherie"Gloria B. Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, I think that punishment is certainly not a solution, and I'm not sure without knowing her if psych help is called for. But helping her find solutions to her animal problem would help, and in general a better system of dealing with the animal problem would solve a lot of problems.It's just too easy to sweep the problem under the rug, and assume that all solutions to the animal problem are going to be Pollyanna-type happy home life solutions (which they're not).GloriaAt 12:39 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:>I totally agree with you Tamara!!>>Mia>>tamara stickler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>I agree with Tad. Punishment does very little to solve the >problem...helping her to find another solution...would seem more >reasonable. But I'd go a step farther, she would work at the
 shelter, but >not handle money or be a major decision maker...she needs to learn, not >lead at this point. Plus, a little psycological help is prob. needed tooT>>Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>That is being to kind, she needs to be put in jail and given her just >deserts, how would you feel if she had sick and healthy kids in one room, >and their bodies in the back yard in bags because she could not afford >creamation.animals and kids need us more than any one else, they can >not defend themselves, they need our guidance and they trust us to give it >to them.>Cherie>>Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that>counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't>save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd>most people don't have
 any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse>there is no body to care for them...>The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...>Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put>her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill>shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance>her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she>enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than>just locking her up>>Tad>>Cherie A Gabbert wrote:>> > That is no excuse...I am appauld that anyone would stand up for this> > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her> > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would> > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand> > up for her
 and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a> > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a> > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am> > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> >> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and> > disgusted.> > Cherie> >> >> > Mia Nicer wrote:> >> > Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> > York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> > Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which> > she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> > am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> > am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> > to say
 about it:> >> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> > the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> > Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> > This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> > free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> > nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> > it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> > situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> > do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> > There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> > harder for them to get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.> >> >> >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:> >> > DNA - Marlene Kess
 & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> > Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.> >> >> >  Original Message > > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> > Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400> >> > Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> > E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> > Friday, May 20, 2005> > BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> > Star-Ledger Staff> > Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan> > as a> > caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her> > rescue and> > adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she> > took it home> > herself, over

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

In MY mind animals and kids are one and the same and SHOULD be thought of EQUALLY, but I know this will never be, it is just how I put certain scenerios in perspective.
Cherie
"Gloria B. Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If you put "kids" in place of "animals', well - you wouldn't have "breeders" (uh in the way that we do for cats), they wouldn't have a city organization devoted to euthanizing (sometimes inhumainely), or they wouldn't be running loose on the street clawing thru the garbage - well not as much. And people might care more.GloriaAt 12:30 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:>Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Put kids in place of the >animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail, >but instead working with other kids?>>Ah...no..you'll get the more emotional response from me if you leave >"animals" just where it is...>>I love kids too, but at least they can speak up in the same language.>>Trust mepeople who delibertly or through ignorance hurt animals
 & >children...well, they are the lowest of the low.>>I DO believe she should be punished...and it never occured to me that she >had done something delibertly to hasten their deaths, but fixing a >problem, or trying too does more in the long run than just punishing for >the acts... This woman is prob. a "collector" who got in over her >head...then who do you go too? Your friends and family think you're >nuts...just "get rid of them, they're ONLY animals..." but it would break >your heart to do so, no one understands so you'll just do it all >yourself..you'll show them>>I believe she needs therapy first...then it can be decided HOW to >proceed...were the acts intentional...out of frustrationor the >by-product of over empathy that turned into a logic & reality breakdown?>>The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. God help us
 all.Have a purrfect day
Cherie

Re: Jersey

2005-05-24 Thread Nina

Stan,
What a sweetheart you are!  I'm praying that Jersey recovers from 
whatever is causing the eating and back leg problems.  We have discussed 
all sorts of feeding tips to get kitties interested in food when they 
don't feel well enough to eat.  Let us know if you can't find them in 
the archives and we'll post more about it.  FelV is a devastating 
diagnosis, but our angels can and do lead happy healthy lives, (although 
usually shorter ones).  I'm glad you found this group, keep us informed 
about the two of you.

Nina

stany petrov wrote:

Hi Belinda,

Thanks for the information.

I am going to take Jersey to the vet tomorrow. I took him on Friday, 
they kept him in the clinic for tests and the doctor called me in the 
evening. I was shoked to hear he has a leukimia and could hardly catch 
what she was explaining me. I am going to talk with her tomorrow 
afternoon.

Now, I give Jersey some yoke and cream cheese. He rejects the diet 
food from the vet. He likes margarine but I use that only to give him 
some vitamins.

I cannot believe that disease is so spread in the USA. In Bulgaria, 
where I come from I have never heard for cat cancer. Cats usually die 
from accidents or age. I am really amazed to read that 60 million cats 
in the US carry this virus. Something has to be done.

Thanks again. Keep in touch

Stan

>From: Belinda Sauro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>Subject: Re: Jersey
>Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 08:12:50 -0700
>
>   Hi Stan,
>  There is a CRF (chronic renal failure) group on Yahoo you may want
>to join, I've heard of kitties with crf that get weak in the back
>legs it has something to do with the potassium level.  Here is the
>group if your interested.  CRF can be managed if caugh early enough,
>it usually requires a diet change and careful monitoring.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/
>
>Also you have to be sure Jersey is getting enough food or your
>asking for a whole different group of complications.  What treatment
>has your vet suggested?
>
>--
>Belinda
>Happiness is being owned by cats ...
>
>Be-Mi-Kitties ...
>http://www.bemikitties.com
>
>Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
>http://adopt.bemikitties.com
>
>FeLV Candle Light Service
>http://www.bemikitties.com/cls
>
>HostDesign4U.com  (affordable hosting & web design)
>http://HostDesign4U.com
>
>---
>
>BMK Designs (non-profit web sites)
>http://bmk.bemikitties.com
>
>

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

RE: OT cat-safe roach control

It's exactly the sort of thing CR should do, but I have never seen it
(and I've subscribed for years). I'll email them and urge them to do it.
But I'll also see if I can track down any other dirsct user info.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:12 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT cat-safe roach control

i've often wondered about the electronic ones, too--wonder if there's
a consumer-ratings place? consumer reports?

-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
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RE: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Doljan, Joan

Title: Message

That 
would be fine with me!

  -Original Message-From: Cherie A Gabbert 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:39 
  PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Please 
  read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CATRESCUE-in Orange, 
  NJ]

  Good thought, how about a metal health facility to be evaluated for 60 
  days, that is a lighter sentence and she will still feel the repercussions of 
  her actions.Joan Doljan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

I don't know if she should serve jail time, but I agree that she should 
NOT work with animals. I think a mental health expert needs to evaluate the 
best course of action to treat her.

JoanCherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

  I think the reason for jail time would be to isolate her from the 
  animal community, she might have done more harm than good and the act of 
  putting dead animals one after another in garbage bags is diplorable. 
  Think about how long it takes for an animal to pass, and then consider the 
  amount of dead animals she had, and if they all passed within a short time 
  of each other, then the other question is what killed them all so close 
  together.

  I do not think she is sane enough to be allowed to work anywhere near 
  animals.

  Put kids in place of the animals and think about it that 
  way, would you want her not going to jail, but instead working with other 
  kids?
  Cherietamara stickler 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I agree with Tad.  Punishment does very little to solve the 
problem...helping her to find another solution...would seem more 
reasonable.  But I'd go a step farther, she would work at the 
shelter, but not handle money  or be a major decision maker...she 
needs to learn, not lead at this point.  Plus, a little 
psycological help is prob. needed tooTCherie A Gabbert 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

  That is being to kind, she needs to be put in jail and given her 
  just deserts, how would you feel if she had sick and healthy kids in 
  one room, and their bodies in the back yard in bags because she could 
  not afford creamation.animals and kids need us more than any one 
  else, they can not defend themselves, they need our guidance and they 
  trust us to give it to them.
  CherieTad Burnett 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  I 
am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that 
counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However 
"You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time 
understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how 
many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for 
them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or 
another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it 
would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge 
to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for 
disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a 
days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than 
so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her 
upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is 
no excuse...I am appauld that anyone would stand up for this 
> individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving 
her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends 
this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly 
speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her 
organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter 
themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a 
> laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check 
out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a 
dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that 
this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> 
Cherie> >> Mia Nicer 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is 
Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey 
and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from 
Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which> she 
has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and 
I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my 
area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen 
to what I have> to say about it:> > This 
situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in>

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Well, I think that punishment is certainly not a solution, and I'm not sure 
without knowing her if psych help is called for.  But helping her find 
solutions to her animal problem would help, and in general a better system 
of dealing with the animal problem would solve a lot of problems.

It's just too easy to sweep the problem under the rug, and assume that all 
solutions to the animal problem are going to be Pollyanna-type  happy home 
life solutions (which they're not).

Gloria

At 12:39 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:

I totally agree with you Tamara!!

Mia

tamara stickler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I agree with Tad.  Punishment does very little to solve the 
problem...helping her to find another solution...would seem more 
reasonable.  But I'd go a step farther, she would work at the shelter, but 
not handle money  or be a major decision maker...she needs to learn, not 
lead at this point.  Plus, a little psycological help is prob. needed tooT

Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That is being to kind, she needs to be put in jail and given her just 
deserts, how would you feel if she had sick and healthy kids in one room, 
and their bodies in the back yard in bags because she could not afford 
creamation.animals and kids need us more than any one else, they can 
not defend themselves, they need our guidance and they trust us to give it 
to them.

Cherie

Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that
counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't
save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd
most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse
there is no body to care for them...
The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...
Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put
her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill
shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance
her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she
enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than
just locking her up

Tad

Cherie A Gabbert wrote:

> That is no excuse...I am appauld that anyone would stand up for this
> individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her
> supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would
> hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand
> up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a
> shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a
> laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am
> sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.
>
> Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and
> disgusted.
> Cherie
>
>
> Mia Nicer wrote:
>
> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New
> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for
> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which
> she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I
> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I
> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have
> to say about it:
>
> This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in
> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.
> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.
> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their
> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have
> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about
> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this
> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please
> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.
> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it
> harder for them to get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.
>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.
> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400
>
> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard
> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency
> Friday, May 20, 2005
> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON
> Star-Ledger Staff
> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan
> as a
> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her
> rescue and
> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she
> took it home
> herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for it until
> its death.
> Yesterday, authorities discovered what Kess' philosophy looked
> like in
> practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a
> neighbor complaining
> about a stench, city health ins

Re: OT cat-safe roach control

i've often wondered about the electronic ones, too--wonder if there's
a consumer-ratings place? consumer reports?

-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

People, as a whole, are generally flawed.  So obsessed with their individual concerns, and of course amassing wealth and possesions...Our own government is working hard to eliminate social programs that, while abused by some, feed, house, cloth, teach, and give health care for childrenWe fund schools based on test scores, spending more money where the scores are higher because those children have more "potenial" thereby fulfilling our own prophacy by declaring that those who did not score well never had the potential to begin with.  Well, Einstein failed algebra.
 
People don't care about people...I'm not certain we'll ever get them to care about animals. I guess we just have to keep screaming into the wind and hoping SOMEONE in the future will hear."Gloria B. Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If you put "kids" in place of "animals', well - you wouldn't have "breeders" (uh in the way that we do for cats), they wouldn't have a city organization devoted to euthanizing (sometimes inhumainely), or they wouldn't be running loose on the street clawing thru the garbage - well not as much. And people might care more.GloriaAt 12:30 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:>Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Put kids in place of the >animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail, >but instead working with other kids?>>Ah...no..you'll get the more emotional response from me if you leave >"animals" just where it is...>>I love kids too, but at least they can speak up in the same language.>>Trust mepeople who delibertly or through ignorance hurt animals
 & >children...well, they are the lowest of the low.>>I DO believe she should be punished...and it never occured to me that she >had done something delibertly to hasten their deaths, but fixing a >problem, or trying too does more in the long run than just punishing for >the acts... This woman is prob. a "collector" who got in over her >head...then who do you go too? Your friends and family think you're >nuts...just "get rid of them, they're ONLY animals..." but it would break >your heart to do so, no one understands so you'll just do it all >yourself..you'll show them>>I believe she needs therapy first...then it can be decided HOW to >proceed...were the acts intentional...out of frustrationor the >by-product of over empathy that turned into a logic & reality breakdown?>>The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. God help us
 all.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Mia

2005-05-24 Thread Barbara Lowe




it costs over $100 to cremate an animal here on 
Long Island. I don't know of any vet that will just take a dead animal for no 
money.  I can imagine the same $ charge in NJ.  I also cannot 
even imagine how adrift many of the kittykind volunteers and foster homes feel 
right now. Hopefully someone in the group is well informed/experienced enough to 
regroup and get the currently fostered animals permanent homes. 
(does it sound funny to say that while I volunteer 
for a rescue group I really never wanted any human contact with them because I 
felt many were borderline crazy--I would just go pick up the kittens/cats that 
needed fostering and bring them back when there was openings. Also I knew if I 
stuck around the shelter, I would get conned into other chores/duties). 

Also because my dad was in advertising, he always 
always warned me never ever believe everything I read in print. I did not see 
any televised broadcasts of the seized animals but I know how newspapers and tv 
news distorts information for ratings. If I were involved with kittykind I'd be 
calling those same tv newspeople and asking for airtime to show the healthy 
foster animals still needing homes. 
Barbara

RE: OT cat-safe roach control

Thank you for the reminder MaryChristine...I've started scrubbing
anyway...figured it can't hurt..., and I've begun throwing out empty
boxes...but now, I'm wondering, does anyone know how effective
ELECTRONIC roach/insect repellents are such as those made by Pest
Repeller Ultimate???..The testimonials sound great (of course)...(I'm on
red alert now for every movement..keep looking at the floor by the
doorhalf-expecting to see one march in under the door. i know it
sounds so wimpy of me, and there are far worse problems in life, but I
really do have a total horror of them. I can live with just about any
other insect I've come across) Thanks again for any info. You guys
are just great. Kerry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:27 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT cat-safe roach control


to remind everyone again, these disgusting little critters can live on
almost anything--so it really ISN'T an issue of cleanliness or lack
thereof. once they're in, they're just very hard to evict. the way
to approach the neighbors is to give them the facts about boxes and
bags and glue and soap--or they are likely to think you're judging
their housekeeping--being a poor housekeeper may make the situation
worse, for sure, but as anyone who's ever had roaches will tell you, a
spotless house is NO deterrent! (hm--since they LIKE soap, does
GOOD housekeeping make the place a better diner?)

caulking sounds like a great idea, too--but i'm not sure that any
human can ever actually find all the miniscule places they can use to
travel around a building.

now, does anyone have any good suggestions for asian lady beetles and
box-elder bugs???

-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This 
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the 
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not 
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

you couldn't have said it any better!!
Miatamara stickler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Put kids in place of the animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail, but instead working with other kids?
Ah...no..you'll get the more emotional response from me if you leave "animals" just where it is...
I love kids too, but at least they can speak up in the same language.
Trust mepeople who delibertly or through ignorance hurt animals & children...well, they are the lowest of the low.
I DO believe she should be punished...and it never occured to me that she had done something delibertly to hasten their deaths, but fixing a problem, or trying too does more in the long run than just punishing for the acts... This woman is prob. a "collector" who got in over her head...then who do you go too? Your friends and family think you're nuts...just "get rid of them, they're ONLY animals..." but it would break your heart to do so, no one understands so you'll just do it all yourself..you'll show them
I believe she needs therapy first...then it can be decided HOW to proceed...were the acts intentional...out of frustrationor the by-product of over empathy that turned into a logic & reality breakdown?
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. God help us all.
T

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Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

I do agree she should no longer work with animals. It's so unfortunate because I am pretty sure she came into this wanting to do good for animals and in the end just didn't no her limits or when to ask for help.
 
MiaCherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I think the reason for jail time would be to isolate her from the animal community, she might have done more harm than good and the act of putting dead animals one after another in garbage bags is diplorable. Think about how long it takes for an animal to pass, and then consider the amount of dead animals she had, and if they all passed within a short time of each other, then the other question is what killed them all so close together.
 
I do not think she is sane enough to be allowed to work anywhere near animals.
 
Put kids in place of the animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail, but instead working with other kids?
Cherietamara stickler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I agree with Tad.  Punishment does very little to solve the problem...helping her to find another solution...would seem more reasonable.  But I'd go a step farther, she would work at the shelter, but not handle money  or be a major decision maker...she needs to learn, not lead at this point.  Plus, a little psycological help is prob. needed tooTCherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

That is being to kind, she needs to be put in jail and given her just deserts, how would you feel if she had sick and healthy kids in one room, and their bodies in the back yard in bags because she could not afford creamation.animals and kids need us more than any one else, they can not defend themselves, they need our guidance and they trust us to give it to them.
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am appauld
 that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which> she has put
 the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to get their
 cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledger Staff> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan> as a> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her> rescue and> adoption agency, KittyK

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

If you put "kids" in place of "animals', well - you wouldn't have 
"breeders"  (uh  in the way that we do for cats), they wouldn't have a city 
organization devoted to euthanizing (sometimes inhumainely),  or they 
wouldn't be running loose on the street clawing thru the garbage - well not 
as much.  And people might care more.


Gloria

At 12:30 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:


Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Put kids in place of the 
animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail, 
but instead working with other kids?


Ah...no..you'll get the more emotional response from me if you leave 
"animals" just where it is...


I love kids too, but at least they can speak up in the same language.

Trust mepeople who delibertly or through ignorance hurt animals & 
children...well, they are the lowest of the low.


I DO believe she should be punished...and it never occured to me that she 
had done something delibertly to hasten their deaths, but fixing a 
problem, or trying too does more in the long run than just punishing for 
the acts...  This woman is prob. a "collector" who got in over her 
head...then who do you go too?  Your friends and family think you're 
nuts...just "get rid of them, they're ONLY animals..."  but it would break 
your heart to do so, no one understands so you'll just do it all 
yourself..you'll show them


I believe she needs therapy first...then it can be decided HOW to 
proceed...were the acts intentional...out of frustrationor the 
by-product of over empathy that turned into a logic & reality breakdown?


The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.  God help us all.

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

To everyone in this group,
Please do not take my recent email as a defense to Kitty Kind or this organization.
Again I am not affiliated with them and believe what her actions have created is horrible. My previous email is to express my concern for the cats with Kitty Kind and also the fosters and volunteers. Many of them are so upset and found out just like me and you. **Please remember some of those cats might have been with them at one point and they thought Marlene was doing the right thing. I am just worried some of these cats who really need homes will not get adopted because of the bad media Marlene has given this group.Please remember that some of these cats are in foster homes and not with that woman!!
I hope I have not upset anyone with this email and have shed some light on the innocent kitties, fosters and volunteers. **Please remember they have just found out and just imagine how upset they must be.
MiaNina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mia,I understand what you are saying about not judging everyone involved with an organization because of one individual's actions and, of course, the cats in their care shouldn't suffer further because of any human's misconduct. When I read about this situation, I couldn't help but wonder what sort of deplorable circumstances could lead someone who, (one would hope), was trying to help, to these dire straights. Not everyone will be able to muster compassion for the humans involved, but we all are heartsick over what the innocents suffer.NinaMia Nicer wrote:> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New > York, New Jersey and Conn. area. *I am not making an excuse for > Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which she > has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do
know about and I am very > familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I am not apart > of this organization but please listen to what I have to say about it:*> ** > *This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in the > end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer. Please > do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted. This group > has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their free time to > help some of these and their own cats and have nothing to do with this > situation nor did they know anything about it. I believe that the > overflow is what led Marlene to this situation, again I am not making > an excuse for anyone b

Re: Jersey

2005-05-24 Thread Barbara Lowe




Hello,
I assume your vet ran a complete blood work on 
Jersey which discovered the virus. 
How long has your cat not been eating cat food? Ask 
your vet for the Science Diet a/d cans. Many of the science diet canned foods 
are too dry-I know my cats will not eat any of it.  the a/d cans are very 
very soft food--perhaps Jersey will like that. You can try putting some on a 
spoon and smearing it along the side of his mouth so he will be at least taste 
it and perhaps be tempted. Also baby food jars-beef, chicken, lamb might tempt 
Jersey to eat. make sure no onions in the ingredients. 
I agree with Belinda's suggestion to go to the 
Chronic Renal Failure CRF group for advice. 
How experienced is your vet with leukemia 
treatments?  Ask if there is a specialist vet in the area? May I ask, what 
state are you in? perhaps someone on the list can recommend a vet. 
Good luck taking care of Jersey. He is lucky he 
found you.
regards
Barbara

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  stany 
  petrov 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 11:32 
AM
  Subject: Re: Jersey
  
  
  
  Hi Belinda,
   
  Thanks for the information.
  I am going to take Jersey to the vet tomorrow. I took him on Friday, they 
  kept him in the clinic for tests and the doctor called me in the evening. I 
  was shoked to hear he has a leukimia and could hardly catch what she was 
  explaining me. I am going to talk with her tomorrow afternoon.
  Now, I give Jersey some yoke and cream cheese. He rejects the diet food 
  from the vet. He likes margarine but I use that only to give him some 
  vitamins. 
  I cannot believe that disease is so spread in the USA. In Bulgaria, where I 
  come from I have never heard for cat cancer. Cats usually die from accidents 
  or age. I am really amazed to read that 60 million cats in the US carry this 
  virus. Something has to be done.
   
  Thanks again. Keep in touch
   
  Stan>From: Belinda Sauro 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>Reply-To: 
  felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>To: 
  felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>Subject: Re: Jersey>Date: Tue, 24 
  May 2005 08:12:50 -0700>>   Hi 
  Stan,>  There is a CRF (chronic renal failure) group on Yahoo 
  you may want >to join, I've heard of kitties with crf that get weak in 
  the back >legs it has something to do with the potassium 
  level.  Here is the >group if your interested.  CRF 
  can be managed if caugh early enough, >it usually requires a diet 
  change and careful 
  monitoring.>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/>>Also 
  you have to be sure Jersey is getting enough food or your >asking for a 
  whole different group of complications.  What treatment >has 
  your vet suggested?>>-->Belinda>Happiness is being 
  owned by cats ...>>Be-Mi-Kitties 
  ...>http://www.bemikitties.com>>Post Adoptable 
  FeLV/FIV/FIP 
  Cats/Kittens>http://adopt.bemikitties.com>>FeLV Candle 
  Light 
  Service>http://www.bemikitties.com/cls>>HostDesign4U.com  (affordable 
  hosting & web 
  design)>http://HostDesign4U.com>>--->>BMK 
  Designs (non-profit web 
  sites)>http://bmk.bemikitties.com>>

Re: Jersey

Stan, try this one too!  Both are good sites, but this one is the tops!  Fantastic people, I learned SO much.
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
See ya over there!
TBONNIE J KALMBACH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Stan,If his kidneys are affected and his back legs are weak, you might also want to consult the Feline Chronic Renal Failure list. Contact information is available at the bottom of this page: http://www.felinecrf.com/Best wishes to you and yours,Bonnie in WIwww.elephants.comDate: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:06:03 -0400From: stany petrov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: JerseyTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgCC: 


Hi all again,
 
My name is Stan and I am international student from Europe. I recently realized that my cat has FeLV. He os just 2 years. His name is Jersey.
I believe that he has the power to survive for year or two BUT I have to make him eating. He is very skinny and can hardly stands on his back legs. 
Doctor said that his heart is beating good but his kidneys are damaged.
What stage of the illness do you think he is?
How can I make him eat?
I am very glad that I found that site. It kees the last glimpse of hope alive...
Stan>From: catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>Subject: Re: I Think I'm Losing Digby .>Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 20:02:15 -0700 (PDT)>>Marlene,>>I am way behind on email.  I hope maybe Digby is doing better today?  Don't beat yourself up over something you may have missed.  I've found that to be easier to say than do,  but it has often heppened with me that one of mine became quickly ill and I made myself miserable wondering and second guessing myself.  It doesn't help.  One of the biggest problems with felv is that your cat can be fine one day and horribly ill the next.  Please keep us posted about Digby.  You are in my thoughts and prayers.>>tonya>>Marlene Chornie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>Hi
 Group,>> Can't think too clearly at the moment, but I think we're going to lose Digby.  Having to syringe feed him now and give Doxycycline.  Blood work (according to the vet lab) seems to be indicating something going on in the bone marrow, may/may not be Hemobart.  They also say there's a secondary infection but no indication as to where/what it is (at this point).  Our vet clinic ran a urine sample today but it was O.K., so not a kidney/bladder infection.  We've been told it could be anything from an abscess somewhere to a tumour, to I really can't remember what all.  Vet today (not his regular vet) said that if he won't eat, they could put a feeding tube in his mouth (doesn't require anesthetic) and get food in.  We're trying our very best to syringe feed him A/D, but it sometimes upsets me to see him stressed when I do it.  Also syringing some water into
 him.  He can still get around (to litter box), but other than that, he just prefers to be by himself (in his "safe place").  My>  husband and I find ourselves thinking - are we doing the right/best thing for him already at this point? When is enough enough, and will we know it?  We knew when enough was enough last year with our "Casper" (CRF), but FelV is a whole new thing for us, and I guess we're already beating ourselves up over it wondering if we missed something, weren't observant enough, or what?  Sorry to "babble" but this is already starting to take a toll on my husband and I.  Just needed to talk about it.>>Marlene__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Mia and Tad,
Would you feel the same way if it were children as opposed to animals...Think about it, it is the same difference.Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am appauld
 that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which> she has put
 the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to get their
 cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledger Staff> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan> as a> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her> rescue and> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she> took it home> herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for it until> its death.> Yesterday, authorities discovered what
 Kess' philosophy looked> like in> practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a> neighbor complaining> about a stench, city health inspectors found 48 cats inside> the house -- 38> of them in one room -- and more than 200 dead cats stuffed> into garbage bags> in the back yard.> The sight of so many decomposing corpses -- and the fetid odor> they> produced -- sickened animal-welfare officers and others who> responded to the> two-story home on State Street.> "Oh my God, it was awful," said Michael Fowler of the> Associated Humane> Societies, the state's largest shelter group. "The smell was> horrible."> Kess -- the 56-year-old founder and executive director of> KittyKind, which> operates one of New York City's few no-kill shelters -- moved> to East Orange> from Manhattan in July. Dozens of cats, apparently, moved
 with> her. More> arrived while she was there.> "She claims that she takes in sick cats -- cats with feline> leukemia -- and> that she is a known rescuer who people will bring their cats> to when they're> dying," said Sgt. Joseph Bierman of the New Jersey Society for the> Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.> When those cats did d

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

I totally agree with you Tamara!!
 
Miatamara stickler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I agree with Tad.  Punishment does very little to solve the problem...helping her to find another solution...would seem more reasonable.  But I'd go a step farther, she would work at the shelter, but not handle money  or be a major decision maker...she needs to learn, not lead at this point.  Plus, a little psycological help is prob. needed tooTCherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

That is being to kind, she needs to be put in jail and given her just deserts, how would you feel if she had sick and healthy kids in one room, and their bodies in the back yard in bags because she could not afford creamation.animals and kids need us more than any one else, they can not defend themselves, they need our guidance and they trust us to give it to them.
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am appauld
 that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which> she has put
 the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to get their
 cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledger Staff> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan> as a> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her> rescue and> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she> took it home> herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for it until> its death.> Yesterday, authorities discovered what
 Kess' philosophy looked> like in> practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a> neighbor complaining> about a stench, city health inspectors found 48 cats inside> the house -- 38> of them in one room -- and more than 200 dead cats stuffed> into garbage bags> in the back yard.> The sight of so many decomposing corpses -- and the fetid odor> they> produced -- sickened animal-welfare officers and others who> responded to the> two-story home on State Street.> "Oh my God, it was awful," said Michael Fowler of the> Associated Humane> Societies, the state's largest shelter group. "The smell was> horrible."> Kess -- the 56-year-old founder and executive director of> KittyKind, which> operates one of New York Ci

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]


Good thought, how about a metal health facility to be evaluated for 60 days, that is a lighter sentence and she will still feel the repercussions of her actions.Joan Doljan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

I don't know if she should serve jail time, but I agree that she should NOT work with animals. I think a mental health expert needs to evaluate the best course of action to treat her.
 
JoanCherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I think the reason for jail time would be to isolate her from the animal community, she might have done more harm than good and the act of putting dead animals one after another in garbage bags is diplorable. Think about how long it takes for an animal to pass, and then consider the amount of dead animals she had, and if they all passed within a short time of each other, then the other question is what killed them all so close together.
 
I do not think she is sane enough to be allowed to work anywhere near animals.
 
Put kids in place of the animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail, but instead working with other kids?
Cherietamara stickler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I agree with Tad.  Punishment does very little to solve the problem...helping her to find another solution...would seem more reasonable.  But I'd go a step farther, she would work at the shelter, but not handle money  or be a major decision maker...she needs to learn, not lead at this point.  Plus, a little psycological help is prob. needed tooTCherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

That is being to kind, she needs to be put in jail and given her just deserts, how would you feel if she had sick and healthy kids in one room, and their bodies in the back yard in bags because she could not afford creamation.animals and kids need us more than any one else, they can not defend themselves, they need our guidance and they trust us to give it to them.
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am appauld
 that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which> she has put
 the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to get their
 cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledge

Re: Jersey

2005-05-24 Thread BONNIE J KALMBACH

Stan,
  If his kidneys are affected and his back legs are weak, you might 
also want to consult the Feline Chronic Renal Failure list. Contact 
information is available at the bottom of this page: 
http://www.felinecrf.com/

Best wishes to you and yours,
Bonnie in WI

 www.elephants.com
--- Begin Message ---

Hi all again,
 
My name is Stan and I am international student from Europe. I recently realized that my cat has FeLV. He os just 2 years. His name is Jersey.
I believe that he has the power to survive for year or two BUT I have to make him eating. He is very skinny and can hardly stands on his back legs. 
Doctor said that his heart is beating good but his kidneys are damaged.
What stage of the illness do you think he is?
How can I make him eat?
I am very glad that I found that site. It kees the last glimpse of hope alive...
Stan>From: catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>Subject: Re: I Think I'm Losing Digby .>Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 20:02:15 -0700 (PDT)>>Marlene,>>I am way behind on email.  I hope maybe Digby is doing better today?  Don't beat yourself up over something you may have missed.  I've found that to be easier to say than do,  but it has often heppened with me that one of mine became quickly ill and I made myself miserable wondering and second guessing myself.  It doesn't help.  One of the biggest problems with felv is that your cat can be fine one day and horribly ill the next.  Please keep us posted about Digby.  You are in my thoughts and 
prayers.>>tonya>>Marlene Chornie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>Hi Group,>> Can't think too clearly at the moment, but I think we're going to lose Digby.  Having to syringe feed him now and give Doxycycline.  Blood work (according to the vet lab) seems to be indicating something going on in the bone marrow, may/may not be Hemobart.  They also say there's a secondary infection but no indication as to where/what it is (at this point).  Our vet clinic ran a urine sample today but it was O.K., so not a kidney/bladder infection.  We've been told it could be anything from an abscess somewhere to a tumour, to I really can't remember what all.  Vet today (not his regular vet) said that if he won't eat, they could put a feeding tube in his mouth (doesn't require 
anesthetic) and get food in.  We're trying our very best to syringe feed him A/D, but it sometimes upsets me to see him stressed when I do it.  Also syringing some water into him.  He can still get around (to litter box), but other than that, he just prefers to be by himself (in his "safe place").  My>  husband and I find ourselves thinking - are we doing the right/best thing for him already at this point? When is enough enough, and will we know it?  We knew when enough was enough last year with our "Casper" (CRF), but FelV is a whole new thing for us, and I guess we're already beating ourselves up over it wondering if we missed something, weren't observant enough, or what?  Sorry to "babble" but this is already starting to take a toll on my husband and I.  Just needed to talk about it.>>Marlene


--- End Message ---

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Cherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Put kids in place of the animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail, but instead working with other kids?
 
Ah...no..you'll get the more emotional response from me if you leave "animals" just where it is...
 
I love kids too, but at least they can speak up in the same language.
 
Trust mepeople who delibertly or through ignorance hurt animals & children...well, they are the lowest of the low.
 
I DO believe she should be punished...and it never occured to me that she had done something delibertly to hasten their deaths, but fixing a problem, or trying too does more in the long run than just punishing for the acts...  This woman is prob. a "collector" who got in over her head...then who do you go too?  Your friends and family think you're nuts...just "get rid of them, they're ONLY animals..."  but it would break your heart to do so, no one understands so you'll just do it all yourself..you'll show them
 
I believe she needs therapy first...then it can be decided HOW to proceed...were the acts intentional...out of frustrationor the by-product of over empathy that turned into a logic & reality breakdown?
 
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.  God help us all.
 
T

 __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: OT cat-safe roach control

to remind everyone again, these disgusting little critters can live on
almost anything--so it really ISN'T an issue of cleanliness or lack
thereof. once they're in, they're just very hard to evict. the way
to approach the neighbors is to give them the facts about boxes and
bags and glue and soap--or they are likely to think you're judging
their housekeeping--being a poor housekeeper may make the situation
worse, for sure, but as anyone who's ever had roaches will tell you, a
spotless house is NO deterrent! (hm--since they LIKE soap, does
GOOD housekeeping make the place a better diner?)

caulking sounds like a great idea, too--but i'm not sure that any
human can ever actually find all the miniscule places they can use to
travel around a building.

now, does anyone have any good suggestions for asian lady beetles and
box-elder bugs???

-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Andy is gone

2005-05-24 Thread Del Daniels




Jamie,
 
I am so sorry Andy has left you but you have such 
sweet, sweet memories.  How wonderful to have compassionate vet and techs 
at this terrible time of your life.
 
Hugs,
Del

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jamie 
  Laws 
  To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 6:47 PM
  Subject: Andy is gone
  
  
  Thanks to all of you who took the time to respond about Andy.  I do 
  appreciate it.  Barb, Sharon, Yvonne, Terrie, Belinda and anyone else I 
  may have missed- it was good to hear from you again.  To the others- it 
  was good to "meet" you for the first time.
   
  I did take him to the vet first thing this morning.  Dr. Caldwell 
  was in surgery so I saw Dr. Baxter instead.  Also a very nice man.  
  Every person in that place has just been wonderful!  He looked at Andy's 
  chart and said he hoped I didn't think of them as "bad" since my very first 
  experience there has been this ordeal with my baby boy.  
   
  Anyway, he was very straight forward and said while he wanted to commend 
  me on an outstanding job taking care of a Felv+ cat for this long, that there 
  was not much he could do and that this was the beginning of the end.  
  Whatever was going on had his insides in shreds.  The vet said even if I 
  WANTED him to run tests, he was 99% sure that Andy would not come out of the 
  sedation in that state.  Barb- it was so strange.  He held up Andy's 
  face so we were eye to eye and said "Mrs. Laws, tell me, do you really see 
  Andy there anymore?"  And the answer was no.  So I started bawling 
  and babbling about how I didn't warn my husband that this was a possibility 
  this morning and he just went to work without saying goodbye.  I mean I 
  was a crying freak and I just met the man!  So he gave me a small TOWEL 
  and said I was not having a "Kleenex cry" so to take a towel.  Then he 
  told me we were not making the call right now, and not like that.  He 
  gave him a bag of fluids and a shot of Prednisone and told me to talk to my 
  husband first.  I went back to work, then came and got Andy at 
  lunch.  I took him home and spent the afternoon with him.  He pooped 
  blood all over himself TWICE.  The second time I was washing him off in 
  the sink and he had one of his episodes (Dr. Baxter said these were probably 
  small strokes rather than seizures).  But this time it lasted a long, 
  long time.  He quit breathing and went limp in my arms.  No noise, 
  no chest movement.  He was gone.  So I laid him on the floor on the 
  towel and my phone rang, it was my husband.  So I was hysterical 
  telling him Andy just died in my arms and I was freaking out.  Right 
  then, Andy let out this gaspy, panting type breath and started 
  convulsing.  Then he just kind of sat up a little bit like nothing 
  happened!  But he was dead I tell you.  So then I really freaked out 
  and said "he's not dead!"  I mean screaming it.  So Abe (husband) 
  asked what freeway the new vet was off of since he was on his way 
  home.  I told him where it was and he just said "I am 
  meeting you there right now."  So I knew.  I was not going to keep 
  him through the night to spend a little more time together.   That 
  was it.  He was suffering and I was thinking of what 
  I needed to be okay and not Andy.  I wrapped him in 
  a towel and drove to the vet.  I called first and again, just crying into 
  the phone I managed to get out "I had my cat in there this morning and..." 
  that's all I could get out.  The poor girl who answered said "I'm so 
  sorry Jamie, we will see you in a minute."  She knew my name and I 
  hadn't even mentioned the cat's name.  Guess I was the only bawling woman 
  in with a cat today.  Anyway, I managed to choke out "but you close 
  in 15 minutes."  She just said "we'll be here."  It was so 
  wonderful to be treated with compassion.  My old vet would have said 
  "well ER hours start in 15 minutes so just be prepared to pay double."  
  
   
  Anyway, I met Abe there and Dr. Baxter took us back to the treatment 
  area.  Andy laid on the table very still and I petting him and kissed his 
  little face as the vet gave him the injection.  I have never 
  witnessed an animal bing PTS in real life.  I'm sorry if 
  this is all too graphic but it helps me to get it out.  I was surprised 
  that his eyes didn't close and nothing changed.  I didn't realize he was 
  gone until the vet said "ok, his heart stopped."  Then I lost 
  it.  The "never agains" hit me like a ton of bricks.  He 
  will never do his cold nose bumping and tiny front teeth nipping on my 
  husband's inner arm trying to get him to pet him.  He will never serve as 
  my "fun police" when I want my great dane to stop bringing his toy to 
  me.  I would just lay it on the coffee table right next to Andy who was 
  always ready with his right hook.  That kept Apollo in check.  He 
  would NOT go for that toy if Andy was sitting by it.  :)  I will 
  never agai

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]


Thank you Tad. I don't agree with what she let happen. It's a horrible situation but maybe we should have some sympathy for those that were not involved and most hurt because of this. We just have to make sure this doesn't happen with anyone else. Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am appauld
 that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which> she has put
 the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to get their
 cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledger Staff> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan> as a> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her> rescue and> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she> took it home> herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for it until> its death.> Yesterday, authorities discovered what
 Kess' philosophy looked> like in> practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a> neighbor complaining> about a stench, city health inspectors found 48 cats inside> the house -- 38> of them in one room -- and more than 200 dead cats stuffed> into garbage bags> in the back yard.> The sight of so many decomposing corpses -- and the fetid odor> they> produced -- sickened animal-welfare officers and others who> responded to the> two-story home on State Street.> "Oh my God, it was awful," said Michael Fowler of the> Associated Humane> Societies, the state's largest shelter group. "The smell was> horrible."> Kess -- the 56-year-old founder and executive director of> KittyKind, which> operates one of New York City's few no-kill shelters -- moved> to East Orange> from Manhattan in July. Dozens of cats, apparently, moved
 with> her. More> arrived while she was there.> "She claims that she takes in sick cats -- cats with feline> leukemia -- and> that she is a known rescuer who people will bring their cats> to when they're> dying," said Sgt. Joseph Bierman of the New Jersey Society for the> Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.> When those cats did die, they went into large, heavy-duty> garbage bags. Then> they went into the yard, which backs to a parking lot used by> the East> Orange Board of Education and the

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Joan Doljan

I don't know if she should serve jail time, but I agree that she should NOT work with animals. I think a mental health expert needs to evaluate the best course of action to treat her.
 
JoanCherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I think the reason for jail time would be to isolate her from the animal community, she might have done more harm than good and the act of putting dead animals one after another in garbage bags is diplorable. Think about how long it takes for an animal to pass, and then consider the amount of dead animals she had, and if they all passed within a short time of each other, then the other question is what killed them all so close together.
 
I do not think she is sane enough to be allowed to work anywhere near animals.
 
Put kids in place of the animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail, but instead working with other kids?
Cherietamara stickler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I agree with Tad.  Punishment does very little to solve the problem...helping her to find another solution...would seem more reasonable.  But I'd go a step farther, she would work at the shelter, but not handle money  or be a major decision maker...she needs to learn, not lead at this point.  Plus, a little psycological help is prob. needed tooTCherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

That is being to kind, she needs to be put in jail and given her just deserts, how would you feel if she had sick and healthy kids in one room, and their bodies in the back yard in bags because she could not afford creamation.animals and kids need us more than any one else, they can not defend themselves, they need our guidance and they trust us to give it to them.
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am appauld
 that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which> she has put
 the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to get their
 cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledger Staff> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan> as a> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her> rescue and> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

I think the reason for jail time would be to isolate her from the animal community, she might have done more harm than good and the act of putting dead animals one after another in garbage bags is diplorable. Think about how long it takes for an animal to pass, and then consider the amount of dead animals she had, and if they all passed within a short time of each other, then the other question is what killed them all so close together.
 
I do not think she is sane enough to be allowed to work anywhere near animals.
 
Put kids in place of the animals and think about it that way, would you want her not going to jail, but instead working with other kids?
Cherietamara stickler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I agree with Tad.  Punishment does very little to solve the problem...helping her to find another solution...would seem more reasonable.  But I'd go a step farther, she would work at the shelter, but not handle money  or be a major decision maker...she needs to learn, not lead at this point.  Plus, a little psycological help is prob. needed tooTCherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

That is being to kind, she needs to be put in jail and given her just deserts, how would you feel if she had sick and healthy kids in one room, and their bodies in the back yard in bags because she could not afford creamation.animals and kids need us more than any one else, they can not defend themselves, they need our guidance and they trust us to give it to them.
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am appauld
 that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which> she has put
 the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to get their
 cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledger Staff> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan> as a> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her> rescue and> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she> took it home> herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for it until> its death.> Yesterday, authorities discovered what
 Kess' philosophy looked> like in> practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a> neig

Re: Please read -KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

I understand the rest of the animals also need help, but that is what I am saying, you have to know your limit, enough is enough, if you can not take anymore, then ask a friend, money is tight for all but come on, foster and care for the ones you can do not put them in worse circumstances, at least if they are free roaming, they have areas to run and play, spay or neuter them medicate if need be and then let take them to some farm area and let them live.
Cherie"Gloria B. Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks, Mia -for anyone who has been in or near the rescue effort, it's easy to understand how the "overflow" of animals can lead to a difficult situation. I'm not anywhere near your location, but I do understand what you're saying. So many of us rescue to the point where we're comfortable, and don't take in any more. What about the rest of the animals? Who takes them? Do we turn our eyes and minds away? We really have no solution, except for killing off the overflow, which is difficult for many of us.We're all hurt by the overflow of animals, the lack of consciousness about spay neuter, and the irresponsibility of people who dump their animals when they're tired of them. We're try to deal with it.As for "disposing" of dead animals, if you're not in a location with lots of digging space, what do you do? I grew up in the
country. We buried our dead. When I first heard about putting dead animals out with the garbage, I was horrified. If I were in NYC, or East Orange, don't know what I'd do. Perhaps try to make arrangements with a hopefully friendly cremation company.I read this article to educate myself, but I definitely feel sympathetic toward the Kitty Kind and toward Marlene.GloriaAt 09:56 AM 5/24/2005, you wrote:>Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New York, >New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for Marlene from >Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which she has put the >Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I am very familiar with >this rescue group since it is in my area. I am not apart of this >organization but please listen to what I have to say about it:>>This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in the
end >it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer. Please do not >make it any harder for these cats to get adopted. This group has lots of >volunteers and fosters who put in all their free time to help some of >these and their own cats and have nothing to do with this situation nor >did they know anything about it. I believe that the overflow is what led >Marlene to this situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but >please do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this. >There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it harder for >them to get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.>Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>> Original Message >Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange,
NJ>Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>>Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard>E. Orange resident operates rescue agency>Friday, May 20, 2005>BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON>Star-Ledger Staff>Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan as a>caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her rescue and>adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she took it home>herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for it until its death.>Yesterday, authorities discovered what Kess' philosophy looked like in>practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a neighbor complaining>about a stench, city health inspectors found 48 cats inside the house -- 38>of them in one room -- and more than 200 dead cats stuffed into garbage bags>in the back yard.>The sight of so many decomposing corpses -- and the fetid odor
they>produced -- sickened animal-welfare officers and others who responded to the>two-story home on State Street.>"Oh my God, it was awful," said Michael Fowler of the Associated Humane>Societies, the state's largest shelter group. "The smell was horrible.">Kess -- the 56-year-old founder and executive director of KittyKind, which>operates one of New York City's few no-kill shelters -- moved to East Orange>from Manhattan in July. Dozens of cats, apparently, moved with her. More>arrived while she was there.>"She claims that she takes in sick cats -- cats with feline leukemia -- and>that she is a known rescuer who people will bring their cats to when they're>dying," said Sgt. Joseph Bierman of the New Jersey Society for the>Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.>When those cats did die, they went into large, heavy-duty garbage bags. Then>they went into the yard, which backs to a parking lot
used by the East>Orange Board of Education and the East Orange Community Charter School.>Bierman said he counted 21 garbage bags, each

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

I agree with Tad.  Punishment does very little to solve the problem...helping her to find another solution...would seem more reasonable.  But I'd go a step farther, she would work at the shelter, but not handle money  or be a major decision maker...she needs to learn, not lead at this point.  Plus, a little psycological help is prob. needed tooTCherie A Gabbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

That is being to kind, she needs to be put in jail and given her just deserts, how would you feel if she had sick and healthy kids in one room, and their bodies in the back yard in bags because she could not afford creamation.animals and kids need us more than any one else, they can not defend themselves, they need our guidance and they trust us to give it to them.
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am appauld
 that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which> she has put
 the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to get their
 cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledger Staff> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan> as a> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her> rescue and> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she> took it home> herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for it until> its death.> Yesterday, authorities discovered what
 Kess' philosophy looked> like in> practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a> neighbor complaining> about a stench, city health inspectors found 48 cats inside> the house -- 38> of them in one room -- and more than 200 dead cats stuffed> into garbage bags> in the back yard.> The sight of so many decomposing corpses -- and the fetid odor> they> produced -- sickened animal-welfare officers and others who> responded to the> two-story home on State Street.> "Oh my God, it was awful," said Michael Fowler of the> Associated Humane> Societies, the state's largest shelter group. "The smell was> horrible."> Kess -- the 56-year-old founder and executive director of> KittyKind, which> operates one of New York City's few no-kill shelters -- moved> to East Orange> from Manhattan in July. Dozens o

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Or...

That is terrible, I hope evryone that puts cat ads in newpapers knows about him.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I agree very fishy. I wouldn't leave a kitty with him. The area I live in has a person who traps ferals and goes around to homes and asks for cats he says to keep on his farm to keep down rodents. He is selling them to a well known research facility at a large medical college. My friends and I make it a point to tell everyone we can what he is doing. Have a purrfect day
Cherie
 <>

RE: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CATRESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Chris, 
 
I know exactly what you mean!  When I was trying to place Simms, or several others for that matter, I've had people who refuse to tell me how many animals they hadwho wanted to meet elsewhereThen the one woman I placed him with for a bit (I'll call her L) was recommended by THREE rescue groups: Rude Ranch, Greyhound Rescue, (I forget the third one..) all had used and were STILL using her even though I don't believe any had actually been out to her home.  She had SO many animals, that neither she nor her husband knew how many they had!  She was wonderful and loving but the place, although she had the best intentions, was a horrid mess - the filth, the stink!   They truly seemed to LOVE the ones they hadbut they just were not physcally capable of doing all the work.  If I HAD to guess, and they refused to let me see the rest of the farm, so I'm assuming from the noises and smells, I'd say they had nearly 200
 animals (I'm not counting farm animals, but foster dogs, & cats).  Apparently after speaking with L, Rude Ranch, who charges $200 per cat turned over and $50 or $60 a month there after for lifetime care, often sends many cats her way, without monetary compensation, she was stunned to learn the fees they charged.  I believe (though I have no proof) that if the person who surrenders a FeLV cat fails to continue to pay the monthly cost, the animal was transfered to her.  (I had arranged with Rude Ranch to take Simms, at first they didn't have any openings, once I agreed to the surrender fee and monthly maitenance...one week later they had an opening.  I found out from L. that she had just taken another cat from Rude Ranch the same week that that opening became available.  Plus, I was told by the RR owner, after I asked, that if I planned to visit, please give him at the least one week notice, pref. two before coming by.() 
 Makes you wonder...would Simms have eventually been transfered to the foster home, and retrieved before I came to visit, even if I continued to pay?  Needless to say, I found Simms a better home.
 
It just goes to show that the Easiest way is usually NOT the best.
 
I agree about dumping the dead cats, she really should have TRIED to get rid of them some way(Defenders of Animal Rights owner, was fined back in the late 80's for breaking into the Balto. Co. pound's dumpster and dumping the animal carcuses from his organiztion therebut hey, at least he tried to get rid of them..)
 
Oh, and Chris...yes, in any rescuing organization, with the intention of adopting out their charges, a FeLV + cat, even if outwardly healthy, SHOULD be considered sick (just because 1- no one really knows how easily transfered the illness is, & 2- chances are good the rescue cannot afford to give vacinations to each of its charges).  Defenders of Animal Rights, routinely told adopters that all its cats had been tested for FeLV and feline aids and vaccinated against it before being placed in the communial cat adoption rooms where they roamed free.  Well, MOST of the cats,esp. if the owners did not leave the fulll $200 surrender & maintance for life or until adopted fee, were put down before the people made it back to their cars.  While all that did make it to the cat room were given the routine rabies & distemper vacs., NONE that I ever saw in 2years were tested for Felv or feline aids.  Several complaints came back from
 people who had adopted from us, and their previously healthy cat was now infected as was the cat that they just adopted.  Several times, both the cat and kitten rooms were wiped clean of felines and the whole mess started over again...and again..
 
As much as you want to trust people and organizations, you can never fully trust them to keep their words...test results can be doctored, or just lied about.  ALWAYS have an animal tested before releasing among your current ones.  NEVER assume an organization, no matter how good it sounds, or looks, or how touching the newsletters are, is completely on the up and up.  Stories for newsletters are easily doctored...sapped up...created to bring the tear-jerk response that brings in the cash.  Yes, many are truebut just as many are fiction.
 
Donor, adopter beware...and the best way to help the animals...is to do it yourself.  Sorry if that sounds cynical, but honestly, I'm only speaking from experience.
 
TChris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:





Of course, the article doesnt really describe the condition of the living cats except that they were in one room.  Certainly it is at the very least odd that someone would just dump the carcasses but then how much would it have cost to have each cremated.  And if she couldnt afford the cremation, I doubt she could afford the vet bills.  Ive never understood why the vet schools dont set up free or low-cost clinics for their students to help with this situation.  It sounds like perhaps this is someone who got in way over their head  As for mixing sick & he

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Or...

devil's advocate here--damn, it's a pain having 4 planets in libra:
"but on the other hand!"

that NO one ever saw his facilities is indeed somewhat smelly.

that he doesn't allow perfect strangers into his place is not
something to imeediately judge by. many people who take in
special-needs cats do so out of their own HOMES--they are NOT a public
shelter, usually don't have the insurance to protect themselves, nor a
desire to have folks they don't know know where they are.

FeLV cats, especially, need as stress-free an environment as possible;
having strangers coming in all the time does not meet my definition of
that FeLV cats tend NOT to be adopted out, so for them, a
sanctuary setting is THEIR forever home, as much as it is the human's
who care for them.

do NOT underestimate the dumping factor--and the role that
cowardice/shame plays in dumping. most people who dump do NOT call for
an appointment, nor knock on the door and say, "i'm leaving a sick cat
in a crate out in the snow at midnight--hope you find it in time!" as
most farm folk can tell you, even healthy cats are dumped on them all
the time. there are only so many cats that ANY facility can take in;
limiting access is one of the ways to prevent a bad situation from
developing.

neighbors are another very valid reason to limit access--even in
places where there are no legal limits on the number of cats one can
have, there are often technicalities that ordinary folk don't think
about when starting to take in the unwanted--special-use permits, for
example. amount of traffic is another issue--these days, anyone in
this area with a lot of coming and going traffic is gonna be looked at
as a possible meth-lab: a definite problem since cooking the
ingredients gives off a cat-urine odor! and then there are the very
real folks who just like to cause trouble--every hour spent dealing
with them means an hour that the cats DON'T get

ON THE OTHER HAND volunteers and rescues who regularly work with a
facility SHOULD be allowed to see the place! the general public is one
thing, even a group that a facility has never worked with before might
be asked to meet off-site initially.

people need to investigate the shelters/rescues/sanctuaries they
relinquish cats to, just as the shelters/rescues/sanctuaries research
the folks they adopt to. there is NO way to completely weed out the
good liars and the psychos, but both sides need to do their homework.
which means talking to a NUMBER of people and groups--i don't know of
any group that doesn't have SOMEONE who hates them, often because they
were denied adoption rights. or people who find fault with EVERY
organization they contact

we do the best we can we have to communicate with compassion and
honesty amongst ourselves, for the good of the critters...

-- 
MaryChristine

AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 289856892

Re: Please read -KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

2005-05-24 Thread Joan Doljan

Hi,
I have been keeping track of this discussion and I agree with Gloria. I do live in that area (although I don't know her or her group). Rescue groups and individuals, are often so desperate for fosterers, they often they will put animals with anyone (to avoid having them euthanized) without checking the home at all. Many of us who do rescue, have relationships with either local shelters or vets who assist us in the care, euthanization and disposal of sick and dying animals. I agree that you do not keep sick pets with well ones and that burying that number cats is not a sane act, but I am not sure that it is an intentional criminal act.
Joan "Gloria B. Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks, Mia -for anyone who has been in or near the rescue effort, it's easy to understand how the "overflow" of animals can lead to a difficult situation. I'm not anywhere near your location, but I do understand what you're saying. So many of us rescue to the point where we're comfortable, and don't take in any more. What about the rest of the animals? Who takes them? Do we turn our eyes and minds away? We really have no solution, except for killing off the overflow, which is difficult for many of us.We're all hurt by the overflow of animals, the lack of consciousness about spay neuter, and the irresponsibility of people who dump their animals when they're tired of them. We're try to deal with it.As for "disposing" of dead animals, if you're not in a location with lots of digging space, what do you do? I grew up in the
country. We buried our dead. When I first heard about putting dead animals out with the garbage, I was horrified. If I were in NYC, or East Orange, don't know what I'd do. Perhaps try to make arrangements with a hopefully friendly cremation company.I read this article to educate myself, but I definitely feel sympathetic toward the Kitty Kind and toward Marlene.GloriaAt 09:56 AM 5/24/2005, you wrote:>Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New York, >New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for Marlene from >Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which she has put the >Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I am very familiar with >this rescue group since it is in my area. I am not apart of this >organization but please listen to what I have to say about it:>>This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in the
end >it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer. Please do not >make it any harder for these cats to get adopted. This group has lots of >volunteers and fosters who put in all their free time to help some of >these and their own cats and have nothing to do with this situation nor >did they know anything about it. I believe that the overflow is what led >Marlene to this situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but >please do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this. >There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it harder for >them to get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.>Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>> Original Message >Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange,
NJ>Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>>Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard>E. Orange resident operates rescue agency>Friday, May 20, 2005>BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON>Star-Ledger Staff>Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan as a>caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her rescue and>adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she took it home>herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for it until its death.>Yesterday, authorities discovered what Kess' philosophy looked like in>practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a neighbor complaining>about a stench, city health inspectors found 48 cats inside the house -- 38>of them in one room -- and more than 200 dead cats stuffed into garbage bags>in the back yard.>The sight of so many decomposing corpses -- and the fetid odor
they>produced -- sickened animal-welfare officers and others who responded to the>two-story home on State Street.>"Oh my God, it was awful," said Michael Fowler of the Associated Humane>Societies, the state's largest shelter group. "The smell was horrible.">Kess -- the 56-year-old founder and executive director of KittyKind, which>operates one of New York City's few no-kill shelters -- moved to East Orange>from Manhattan in July. Dozens of cats, apparently, moved with her. More>arrived while she was there.>"She claims that she takes in sick cats -- cats with feline leukemia -- and>that she is a known rescuer who people will bring their cats to when they're>dying," said Sgt. Joseph Bierman of the New Jersey Society for the>Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.>When those cats did die, they went into large, heavy-duty garbage bags

Re: Please read -KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]


Thanks, Mia -

for anyone who has been in or near the rescue effort,  it's easy to 
understand how the "overflow" of animals can lead to a difficult 
situation.  I'm not anywhere near your location, but I do understand what 
you're saying.   So many of us rescue to the point where we're comfortable, 
and don't take in any more.  What about the rest of the animals? Who takes 
them?  Do we turn our eyes and minds away?   We really have no solution, 
except for killing off the overflow, which is difficult for many of us.


We're all hurt by the overflow of animals, the lack of consciousness about 
spay neuter, and the irresponsibility of people who dump their animals when 
they're tired of them. We're try to deal with it.


As for "disposing" of dead animals, if you're not in a location with lots 
of digging space, what do you do?  I grew up in the country.  We buried our 
dead.  When I first heard about putting dead animals out with the garbage, 
I was horrified.  If I were in NYC, or East Orange, don't know what I'd 
do.  Perhaps try to make arrangements with a hopefully friendly cremation 
company.


I read this article to educate myself, but I definitely feel sympathetic 
toward the Kitty Kind and toward Marlene.


Gloria


At 09:56 AM 5/24/2005, you wrote:
Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New York, 
New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for Marlene from 
Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which she has put the 
Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I am very familiar with 
this rescue group since it is in my area. I am not apart of this 
organization but please listen to what I have to say about it:


This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in the end 
it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer. Please do not 
make it any harder for these cats to get adopted. This group has lots of 
volunteers and fosters who put in all their free time to help some of 
these and their own cats and have nothing to do with this situation nor 
did they know anything about it. I believe that the overflow is what led 
Marlene to this situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but 
please do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this. 
There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it harder for 
them to get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.




[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.
Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.


 Original Message 
Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ
Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400

Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard
E. Orange resident operates rescue agency
Friday, May 20, 2005
BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON
Star-Ledger Staff
Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan as a
caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her rescue and
adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she took it home
herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for it until its death.
Yesterday, authorities discovered what Kess' philosophy looked like in
practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a neighbor complaining
about a stench, city health inspectors found 48 cats inside the house -- 38
of them in one room -- and more than 200 dead cats stuffed into garbage bags
in the back yard.
The sight of so many decomposing corpses -- and the fetid odor they
produced -- sickened animal-welfare officers and others who responded to the
two-story home on State Street.
"Oh my God, it was awful," said Michael Fowler of the Associated Humane
Societies, the state's largest shelter group. "The smell was horrible."
Kess -- the 56-year-old founder and executive director of KittyKind, which
operates one of New York City's few no-kill shelters -- moved to East Orange
from Manhattan in July. Dozens of cats, apparently, moved with her. More
arrived while she was there.
"She claims that she takes in sick cats -- cats with feline leukemia -- and
that she is a known rescuer who people will bring their cats to when they're
dying," said Sgt. Joseph Bierman of the New Jersey Society for the
Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.
When those cats did die, they went into large, heavy-duty garbage bags. Then
they went into the yard, which backs to a parking lot used by the East
Orange Board of Education and the East Orange Community Charter School.
Bierman said he counted 21 garbage bags, each containing 10 or more
vermin-infested carcasses. In some cases, he said, the cats had become so
decomposed a precise number of bodies could not be determined. Kess had been
placing dead cats in the yard since she moved in, Bierman said.
"I haven't seen anything quite like this," Bierman said. "Certainly it's an
unusual incident."
Kess, seen arguing with animal-welfare officials outside the home, declined
to comment.
She was cited for several East Orange health co

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Or...

Yes

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Or...

I feel sorry for everyone who has been hurt by this tragedy , especially the babies.

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Or...

I agree very fishy. I wouldn't leave a kitty with him. The area I live in has a person who traps ferals and goes around to homes and asks for cats he says to keep on his farm to keep down rodents. He is selling them to a well known research facility at a large medical college. My friends and I make it a point to tell everyone we can what he is doing.

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

That is being to kind, she needs to be put in jail and given her just deserts, how would you feel if she had sick and healthy kids in one room, and their bodies in the back yard in bags because she could not afford creamation.animals and kids need us more than any one else, they can not defend themselves, they need our guidance and they trust us to give it to them.
CherieTad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than just locking her upTadCherie A Gabbert wrote:> That is no excuse...I am appauld
 that anyone would stand up for this > individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her > supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would > hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand > up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a > shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a > laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am > sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.> > Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so shocked and > disgusted.> Cherie> >> Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New> York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am not making an excuse for> Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which> she has put
 the Kitty Kind organization but, I do know about and I> am very familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I> am not apart of this organization but please listen to what I have> to say about it:> > This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in> the end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer.> Please do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted.> This group has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their> free time to help some of these and their own cats and have> nothing to do with this situation nor did they know anything about> it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to this> situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please> do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this.> There are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it> harder for them to get their
 cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledger Staff> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan> as a> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her> rescue and> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she> took it home> herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for it until> its death.> Yesterday, authorities discovered what
 Kess' philosophy looked> like in> practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a> neighbor complaining> about a stench, city health inspectors found 48 cats inside> the house -- 38> of them in one room -- and more than 200 dead cats stuffed> into garbage bags> in the back yard.> The sight of so many decomposing corpses -- and the fetid odor> they> produced -- sickened animal-welfare officers and others who> responded to the> two-story home on State Street.> "Oh my God, it was awful," said Michael Fowler of the> Associated Humane> Societies, the state's largest shelter group. "The smell was> horrible."> Kess -- the 56-year-old founder and executive director of> KittyKind, which> operates one of New York City's few no-kill shelters -- moved> to East Orange> from Manhattan in July. Dozens of cats, apparently, moved
 with> her. More> arrived while she was there.> "She claims that she takes in sick cats -- cats with feline> leukemia -- and> that she is a known rescuer who people will bring their cats> to when they're> dying," said Sgt. Joseph Bierman of the New Jersey Society for the> Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.> When those cats did die, they went into large, heavy-duty>

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]

Ignorance, is not an excuse the fosters and volunteers should have asked questions and inquired about the sick kitties would have been humane and kind hearted.
I hope the adoption rate goes up for the shelter and Kess gets what is coming to her...I am so enraged by this, sad for the animals but angry about the woman
 
Animals and children look to us to help, care and protect them...and as usual we have failed, and this woman is to blame.
CherieMia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

To everyone in this group,
 
Please do not take my recent email as a defense to Kitty Kind or this organization.
Again I am not affiliated with them and believe what her actions have created is horrible. My previous email is to express my concern for the cats with Kitty Kind and also the fosters and volunteers. Many of them are so upset and found out just like me and you. **Please remember some of those cats might have been with them at one point and they thought Marlene was doing the right thing. I am just worried some of these cats who really need homes will not get adopted because of the bad media Marlene has given this group.Please remember that some of these cats are in foster homes and not with that woman!!
 
I hope I have not upset anyone with this email and have shed some light on the innocent kitties, fosters and volunteers. **Please remember they have just found out and just imagine how upset they must be.
 
MiaNina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mia,I understand what you are saying about not judging everyone involved with an organization because of one individual's actions and, of course, the cats in their care shouldn't suffer further because of any human's misconduct. When I read about this situation, I couldn't help but wonder what sort of deplorable circumstances could lead someone who, (one would hope), was trying to help, to these dire straights. Not everyone will be able to muster compassion for the humans involved, but we all are heartsick over what the innocents suffer.NinaMia Nicer wrote:> Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a fellow rescuer in the New > York, New Jersey and Conn. area. *I am not making an excuse for > Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with the situation in which she > has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I do
 know about and I am very > familiar with this rescue group since it is in my area. I am not apart > of this organization but please listen to what I have to say about it:*> ** > *This situation is extremely horrible and very unfortunate but in the > end it will be this rescue group and the kitties that suffer. Please > do not make it any harder for these cats to get adopted. This group > has lots of volunteers and fosters who put in all their free time to > help some of these and their own cats and have nothing to do with this > situation nor did they know anything about it. I believe that the > overflow is what led Marlene to this situation, again I am not making > an excuse for anyone but please do not punish the many volunteers, > fosters and kitties for this. There are so many kitties in need of a > home and by making it harder for them to get their cats adopted out > doesn't help
 anyone. >> *>> */[EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:>> DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind Rescue, East Orange, NJ.> Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.>>>  Original Message > Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400>> Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard> E. Orange resident operates rescue agency> Friday, May 20, 2005> BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON> Star-Ledger Staff> Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan as a> caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her> rescue and> adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she took> it home> herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for it until its death.> Yesterday, authorities discovered what Kess' philosophy looked like in>
 practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a neighbor> complaining> about a stench, city health inspectors found 48 cats inside the> house -- 38> of them in one room -- and more than 200 dead cats stuffed into> garbage bags> in the back yard.> The sight of so many decomposing corpses -- and the fetid odor they> produced -- sickened animal-welfare officers and others who> responded to the> two-story home on State Street.> "Oh my God, it was awful," said Michael Fowler of the Associated> Humane> Societies, the state's largest shelter group. "The smell was> horrible."> Kess -- the 56-year-old founder and executive director of> KittyKind, which> operates one of New York City's few no-kill shelters -- moved to> East Orange> from Manhattan in July. Dozens of cats, apparently, moved with> her. More> arrived while she was
 there.> "She claims that she takes in sick cats -- cats with feline> leukemia -- and> that she is a known rescuer who people will bring their cats to> when they're> dying," said

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]





I am going to agree with Mia...If you believe in "Its
the thought that counts" I believe the woman wanted to save the
cats...However "You can't save them all"...Some people have a hard time
understanding thisAnd most people don't have any idea how many cats
are PTS every day becouse there is no body to care for them...
The woman does need some help...guidance of one sort or another...
Instead of spending the thousands of dollars that it would cost to put
her in jail maybe we could use her knowledge to run a large no kill
shelter with some funding to pay for disposal and food etc and sentance
her to stay there an put in a days work..If it should turn out that she
enjoys that work than so be it but doesn't that make more sense than
just locking her up
 
Tad

Cherie A Gabbert wrote:

  That is no excuse...I am appauld that anyone would stand up for
this individual, she deserves the same treatment she has giving her
supposed "furry friends", If she treats her friends this way I would
hate to be her enemy. I am utterly speechless that anyone would stand
up for her and her organization, I say the volunteers should open a
shelter themselves and Kess should go to jail. KittyKind Ha that is a
laugh, like the roach motel they check in and never check out...I am
sick over this I would like to meet her in a dark alley.
   
  Sorry...usually I am more gentle that this...I am just so
shocked and disgusted.
  Cherie
   
  
  Mia Nicer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

Hi everyone!! My name is Mia and I am a
fellow rescuer in the New York, New Jersey and Conn. area. I am
not making an excuse for Marlene from Kitty Kind nor am I happy with
the situation in which she has put the Kitty Kind organization but, I
do know about and I am very familiar with this rescue group since it is
in my area. I am not apart of this organization but please listen to
what I have to say about it:
 
This situation is extremely
horrible and very unfortunate but in the end it will be this rescue
group and the kitties that suffer. Please do not make it any harder for
these cats to get adopted. This group has lots of volunteers and
fosters who put in all their free time to help some of these and their
own cats and have nothing to do with this situation nor did they know
anything about it. I believe that the overflow is what led Marlene to
this situation, again I am not making an excuse for anyone but please
do not punish the many volunteers, fosters and kitties for this. There
are so many kitties in need of a home and by making it harder for them
to get their cats adopted out doesn't help anyone.



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  DNA - Marlene Kess & Kitty Kind
Rescue, East Orange, NJ.
Hundreds of dead cats found in yard.
  
  
 Original Message 
Subject: DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ
Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:19:35 -0400
  
Hundreds of dead cats found in woman's yard
E. Orange resident operates rescue agency
Friday, May 20, 2005
BY BRIAN T. MURRAY AND KASI ADDISON
Star-Ledger Staff
Over two decades, Marlene Kess built a reputation in Manhattan as a
caregiver of last resort for homeless and dying cats. If her rescue and
adoption agency, KittyKind, couldn't place a sick animal, she took it
home
herself, overseeing its recuperation or caring for it until its death.
Yesterday, authorities discovered what Kess' philosophy looked like in
practice. Summoned to the woman's East Orange home by a neighbor
complaining
about a stench, city health inspectors found 48 cats inside the house
-- 38
of them in one room -- and more than 200 dead cats stuffed into garbage
bags
in the back yard.
The sight of so many decomposing corpses -- and the fetid odor they
produced -- sickened animal-welfare officers and others who responded
to the
two-story home on State Street.
"Oh my God, it was awful," said Michael Fowler of the Associated Humane
Societies, the state's largest shelter group. "The smell was horrible."
Kess -- the 56-year-old founder and executive director of KittyKind,
which
operates one of New York City's few no-kill shelters -- moved to East
Orange
from Manhattan in July. Dozens of cats, apparently, moved with her. More
arrived while she was there.
"She claims that she takes in sick cats -- cats with feline leukemia --
and
that she is a known rescuer who people will bring their cats to when
they're
dying," said Sgt. Joseph Bierman of the New Jersey Society for the
Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.
When those cats did die, they went into large, heavy-duty garbage bags.
Then
they went into the yard, which backs to a parking lot used by the East
Orange Board of Education and the East Orange Community Charter School.
Bierman said he counted 21 garbage bags, each containing 10 or more
vermin-infested carcasses. In some cases, he said, the cats had become
so
decomposed a precise number of bodies could not be determined. Kess had
been
placing dead cats in th

Re: Please read this response!! URGENT:DO NOT USE-KittyKind -CAT RESCUE-in Orange, NJ]