Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

I this what you wrote?

``In my area they ahve an animal control for dogs, cats are just shot.''

According to Alley Cat Allies, it's illegal throughout the U.S. to shoot
cats.   Maybe that only applies to citizens.


On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 1:21 PM,  wrote:

>  Kathryn Hargreaves wrote: > What pound was this? > > That's one of
> the only good things about the pounds around here is that > they don't test
> for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it. Of course, > I think they
> should test, and still not kill for it. > > These are the open-admission No
> Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.: >
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Since >
> they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list
> > compiler's standards. There are many so-called no-kill (note the >
> lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say >
> they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations. > > The
> only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to >
> somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom
> > of Information Act). If you're lucky, they post them on their website. >
> > Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately. See
> > the bottom of my messages for how to change this. Fortunately, now that >
> people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill
> > shelters. All it will take is time. Hopefully, in my lifetime. > > > On
> Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 7:15 AM, Alev Durmus wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > I
> feel for all of you who lost your cat(s). I have lost one too many and I >
> > can't bring myself to think losing another one. I would like to share > >
> something with you all and ask your opinions and advice since I am not > >
> originally from the US and I don't know how things go over here plus I > >
> might not be thinking straight because I am very upset. This happened on >
> > Saturday and I have been crying since... > > > > I came across to this
> cat-we named her River-less than 2 weeks ago cross > > the road from my
> home in an unused shed. I usually don't look around but > > for some
> reason, I looked towards the shed and there she was looking at > > me...She
> was not moving a lot, sickly and skinny. I started feeding her, > > she ate
> a lot and became more energetic in 2 days. She had started > > wandering
> around since she wasn't starving anymore and I became afraid of > > coyotes
> killing her or cold weather coming soon. I called the local no-kill > >
> shelter to ask what to do. They told me to take pictures and uploaded on >
> > their facebook page in order to locate her owners. She definitely had > >
> owners once and probably was dumped...She was a very loving sweet cat. I >
> > suspected, being a house cat she didn't know what to do to feed herself
> and > > that's why she was in that shape. After a while she was so great,
> even if > > she was not in the shed, she would come running when I called
> her. A few > > days later shelter called and said they had an opening for
> her. This was a > > good timing because of freeze warning coming to our
> way. I already have > > another cat and I didn't want to bring her home
> without knowing that she is > > healthy...We-me and the kids-were so happy
> to bring her to safety. They > > asked me to sign a form saying that I gave
> all her rights to the shelter. I > > was puzzled but knowing that it was a
> no-kill shelter I was > > not that concerned. I put a note saying that I
> was not the owner and she > > probably had an owner...I asked a lot of
> questions, when would we know > > about her health, how can we adopt her,
> can I visit her etc.? I told them > > we were planning to adopt her but my
> husband needed to be convinced...They > > told me the vet would be coming
> on Thursday and the blood test would be > > back and she would be in pet
> finder after a while. They said no to > > visitation and no to adopting her
> right from the shelter...I said what if > > someone adopts her before we
> see the ad, please call me etc...And then we > > left. I didn't know that I
> brought her to her death by my hands thinking I > > was doing the right
> thing... > > > > I called them Saturday and they informed me that they "put
> her to sleep" > > on Friday because she had FeLV+...I said why didn't you
> call? no > > answer...Between killing an animal and making a phone call
> they picked > > killing her. After I read online that there are many false
> positive on this > > test ( I don;t think anyone bothered to do the second
> test) and even if she > > was positive she could be living a long life in a
> one-cat household...I > > can't believe any animal lover would be that
> quick to kill one without > > exploring other options or calling
> someone-me- who showed extreme interest > > on saving this cat...Please
> anyone let me know if this is what they do in > > the shel

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[dlgegg]

 Kathryn Hargreaves wrote: > What pound was this? > > That's one of the 
only good things about the pounds around here is that > they don't test for 
FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it. Of course, > I think they should 
test, and still not kill for it. > > These are the open-admission No Kill 
(saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.: > 
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Since > they 
made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list > 
compiler's standards. There are many so-called no-kill (note the > lowercase 
letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say > they are 
no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations. > > The only way you 
can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to > somehow get their 
intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom > of Information Act). 
If you're lucky, they post them on their website. > > Most pounds in this 
country are just killing machines, unfortunately. See > the bottom of my 
messages for how to change this. Fortunately, now that > people know it can be 
done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill > shelters. All it will 
take is time. Hopefully, in my lifetime. > > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 7:15 AM, 
Alev Durmus wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > I feel for all of you who lost your 
cat(s). I have lost one too many and I > > can't bring myself to think losing 
another one. I would like to share > > something with you all and ask your 
opinions and advice since I am not > > originally from the US and I don't know 
how things go over here plus I > > might not be thinking straight because I am 
very upset. This happened on > > Saturday and I have been crying since... > > > 
> I came across to this cat-we named her River-less than 2 weeks ago cross > > 
the road from my home in an unused shed. I usually don't look around but > > 
for some reason, I looked towards the shed and there she was looking at > > 
me...She was not moving a lot, sickly and skinny. I started feeding her, > > 
she ate a lot and became more energetic in 2 days. She had started > > 
wandering around since she wasn't starving anymore and I became afraid of > > 
coyotes killing her or cold weather coming soon. I called the local no-kill > > 
shelter to ask what to do. They told me to take pictures and uploaded on > > 
their facebook page in order to locate her owners. She definitely had > > 
owners once and probably was dumped...She was a very loving sweet cat. I > > 
suspected, being a house cat she didn't know what to do to feed herself and > > 
that's why she was in that shape. After a while she was so great, even if > > 
she was not in the shed, she would come running when I called her. A few > > 
days later shelter called and said they had an opening for her. This was a > > 
good timing because of freeze warning coming to our way. I already have > > 
another cat and I didn't want to bring her home without knowing that she is > > 
healthy...We-me and the kids-were so happy to bring her to safety. They > > 
asked me to sign a form saying that I gave all her rights to the shelter. I > > 
was puzzled but knowing that it was a no-kill shelter I was > > not that 
concerned. I put a note saying that I was not the owner and she > > probably 
had an owner...I asked a lot of questions, when would we know > > about her 
health, how can we adopt her, can I visit her etc.? I told them > > we were 
planning to adopt her but my husband needed to be convinced...They > > told me 
the vet would be coming on Thursday and the blood test would be > > back and 
she would be in pet finder after a while. They said no to > > visitation and no 
to adopting her right from the shelter...I said what if > > someone adopts her 
before we see the ad, please call me etc...And then we > > left. I didn't know 
that I brought her to her death by my hands thinking I > > was doing the right 
thing... > > > > I called them Saturday and they informed me that they "put her 
to sleep" > > on Friday because she had FeLV+...I said why didn't you call? no 
> > answer...Between killing an animal and making a phone call they picked > > 
killing her. After I read online that there are many false positive on this > > 
test ( I don;t think anyone bothered to do the second test) and even if she > > 
was positive she could be living a long life in a one-cat household...I > > 
can't believe any animal lover would be that quick to kill one without > > 
exploring other options or calling someone-me- who showed extreme interest > > 
on saving this cat...Please anyone let me know if this is what they do in > > 
the shelters? Is there anything we can do to change their policy? She even > > 
gave me a line of " oh, you did such a good job taking care of her, she > > 
would have died if not for you" > > > > No one ever mentioned me killing the 
cat-never...If they did I wouldn't > > leave River there. > > > > Please drop 
me a few lines, I am

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[dlgegg]

I do not trust shelters anymore so I keep my posiives.  My vet said if I 
vaccinate the negatives, there should be no problem and so far, I have had 
none.  they all live in the whole house, eat out of the other's bowl because it 
must be better than mine.  I do my best to keep the stress level down and when 
there is the least different behavior, off to the vet we go.



 Beth wrote: > Alev - I'm so sorry you had this experience. Unfortunately 
many "no-kill" shelters are really not totally no-kill - they do euthanize for 
FeLV & FIV, usually because they have no place to house/foster the positive 
cats. It is routine for shelters to make you sign all rights over to them. It 
usually will say in that ppw that they euthanize for FeLV & FIV. It is also 
normal for you to have to go through the same adoption process as anyone else 
even if you were the one surrendering the animal. It is crazy, though, that 
they would not call you & give you the chance to take the cat back or 
permanently foster her. However, their reasoning might have been that the cat 
had been outside & they were afraid you may re-release her with a contagious 
virus. I had this happen with an FIV+ cat when I 1st moved into my 
neighborhood. I found the cat & he was injured. I already had 5 cats & could 
not take another, so I took him to a local emergency vet that had an "injured 
stray" program. They took in donations for injured strays & then adopted them 
out. When I called back to find out how he was they said he tested positive for 
FIV & they were going to euthanize him. I begged them to give me time to find 
someone to take him - I had a friend with an FIV+ cat. Unfortunately she could 
not take him. So I called the vet & said I would take him back. They then said 
NO - They could not trust that I would not let him outside again & he was 
contagious. I pleaded with them to wait for my vet's office to open the next 
day & have her vouch for me (they knew my vet well). She did & I was able to 
pick him up. He lived 10 healthy years with me. BTW our shelter does NOT 
euthanize for FeLV or FIV. I foster FeLV cats for them & we actually rent a 
house for the FIV cats to live in. You can see the FIV cat's FB page here:  
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Furkids-FIV-House/217196318335990?ref=ts&fref=ts 
Beth   Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org   
 From: Alev Durmus To: 
"felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM Subject: 
[Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Dear all, I feel for all 
of you who lost your cat(s). I have lost one too many and I can't bring myself 
to think losing another one. I would like to share something with you all and 
ask your opinions and advice since I am not originally from the US and I don't 
know how things go over here plus I might not be thinking straight because I am 
very upset. This happened on Saturday and I have been crying since... I 
came across to this cat-we named her River-less than 2 weeks ago cross the road 
from my home in an unused shed. I usually don't look around but for some 
reason, I looked towards the shed and there she was looking at me...She was not 
moving a lot, sickly and skinny. I started feeding her, she ate a lot and 
became more energetic in 2 days. She had started wandering around since she 
wasn't starving anymore and I became afraid of coyotes killing her or cold 
weather coming soon. I called the local no-kill shelter to ask what to do. They 
told me to take pictures and uploaded on their facebook page in order to locate 
her owners. She definitely had owners once and probably was dumped...She was a 
very loving sweet cat. I suspected, being a house cat she didn't know what to 
do to feed herself and that's why she was in that shape. After a while she was 
so great, even if she was not in the shed, she would come running when I called 
her. A few days later > shelter called and said they had an opening for her. 
This was a good timing because of freeze warning coming to our way. I already 
have another cat and I didn't want to bring her home without knowing that she 
is healthy...We-me and the kids-were so happy to bring her to safety. They 
asked me to sign a form saying that I gave all her rights to the shelter. I was 
puzzled but knowing that it was a no-kill shelter I was not that concerned. I 
put a note saying that I was not the owner and she probably had an owner...I 
asked a lot of questions, when would we know about her health, how can we adopt 
her, can I visit her etc.? I told them we were planning to adopt her but my 
husband needed to be convinced...They told me the vet would be coming on 
Thursday and the blood test would be back and she would be in pet finder after 
a while. They said no to visitation and no to adopting her right from the 
shelter...I said what if someone adopts her before we see the > ad, please call 
me etc...And then we left. I didn't know that I brou

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Where are you?

Just be careful about anything that resembles mandatory spay/neuter laws,
as they apparently are counterproductive, and may be in this case, too.
 See:  https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=152006964816562 or Google
"ryan clinton mandatory spay neuter"   Here in L.A., pound intakes went
down in when they implemented low-cost s/n (in 1971), but not when they
implemented MSN a couple of years ago.

Also, seems any kind of sterilization should suffice, not just spay/neuter,
especially in light of this study: http://www.gpmcf.org/respectovaries.html
Seems if you have an Felv+ female cat who's lifespan is already in danger
of being shortened, then you'd want to keep anything (i.e., ovaries) that
could lengthen it.



On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> I just looked up the stats for 2011 for Animal Care Services, our city run
> "shelter".  Well, they are better than 10 years ago when ACS was killing
> over 50,000 a year, with the breakdown of 18,000+ cats and the rest dogs.
> So we can be called a "less kill" city.  But far from anything logical. In
> 2011 they killed 21,822 of which 6,813 were cats.  This year's funding
> (2012) is about $9.3 million wasted dollars.  The sad thing is that we
> could be no-kill in about a year, maybe 2 at the most with the proper
> advertising and expenditure of funds.
>
> Right now TNR is allowed but it is not funded by the City.  Right now we
> have a grant from Best Friends for free and low cost spay/neuter, but only
> in certain zip codes.  What would be needed is about a dozen mobile clinics
> to be circulating in all the neighborhoods at all times, a mass teaching
> effort to have people trap and bring feral cats and owned dogs to the
> clinic for FREE spay and neuter operations.
>
> An ordinance requiring apartment building owners and duplex owners to
> write into the leases of the tenants a spay/neuter clause that no one gets
> to rent an apartment if their pet is not spayed/neutered and proof shown to
> the manager/owner.  A whole lot of stray cats and dogs come from tenants
> who abandon their pets when they move to another apartment or whose pets go
> outside and get lost and pregnant.  If they abandon a spayed/neutered pet,
> that's only one animal put out.  If the animal isn't fixed, it's dozens of
> future animals born from that one animal.  This is a REAL problem and leads
> management to call Animal Control to clean up the mess and kill the
> animals. Meanwhile feeders are trying to do TNR under the radar because
> management hasn't gotten educated that TNR actually helps the problem not
> increases it.
>
> Since most people work outside of their home or during set hours of day,
> it would make more sense to have the free and low cost clinics open during
> the evening to late evening - from 5:00 PM to 10:00 PM for intake with
> operations done during the morning and animal pick up in the next evening,
> same hours as intake, and regular hours on weekends, Saturday and Sunday
> during the day.  At least something more logical than rushing around at
> 6:00 AM to get the cat to the clinic, the kids to school or daycare and the
> adult to work.  Then reversing it to pick up the kid at daycare or school,
> and the adult to the clinic before it closes to get the cat.
>
> The technology is available but the intelligence and sense to use it seems
> to be lacking in people we put in positions of authority. Shelters have
> become big business.  Even prisons are becoming big business. So the fact
> that more and more illogical laws are passed putting people behind bars
> doesn't bother  our government because it's "good for business".  Having
> too many kids is big business because it sells more diapers, more toys,
> more kids clothes, more cribs, etc..  Even being sick is big business so
> hospitals are allowed to raise rates, more tests than are needed are done.
> More animals are killed testing new drugs that could be tested in half the
> time using upgraded technology.  Sigh.  I need to get off this Soap Box and
> go clean the litter boxes.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 17, 2012 10:13 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> Yes, per Gavin Nicols' comment on http://www.no-killnews.com/?p=3935 San
> Antonio is nowhere near No Kill (90%+), even if they considered FIV+/Felv+
> cats healthy, which you indicate they don't: ``For 2012 Fiscal Year to
> Date, the healthy and treatable dogs and cat

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[dlgegg]

I know how devastated you must feel.  Have they never offered an explanation 
for their actions.  I just will not take a cat to a shelter, that is why I have 
6 now.  Did have 7 but lost Nitnoy to FELV this Monday.  I have a good vet that 
does not say kill just because have FELV or FIV.  He explains the possiblities 
and leaves the decision to you.  Nitnoy was with me since 2008, not a long time 
, but at least she had a good life up till the last 4 days and she died in my 
arms, knowing she was loved.  That is all we can do for them, love them, care 
for them and then let them go.  It is worth the pain to know this.  don't give 
up helping them, they repay you with tons of love and joy.


--- Alev Durmus wrote: > Dear all, I feel for all of you who lost your cat(s). 
I have lost one too many and I can't bring myself to think losing another one. 
I would like to share something with you all and ask your opinions and advice 
since I am not originally from the US and I don't know how things go over here 
plus I might not be thinking straight because I am very upset. This happened on 
Saturday and I have been crying since... I came across to this cat-we named her 
River-less than 2 weeks ago cross the road from my home in an unused shed. I 
usually don't look around but for some reason, I looked towards the shed and 
there she was looking at me...She was not moving a lot, sickly and skinny. I 
started feeding her, she ate a lot and became more energetic in 2 days. She had 
started wandering around since she wasn't starving anymore and I became afraid 
of coyotes killing her or cold weather coming soon. I called the local no-kill 
shelter to ask what to do. They told me to take pictures and uploaded on their 
facebook page in order to locate her owners. She definitely had owners once and 
probably was dumped...She was a very loving sweet cat. I suspected, being a 
house cat she didn't know what to do to feed herself and that's why she was in 
that shape. After a while she was so great, even if she was not in the shed, 
she would come running when I called her. A few days later > shelter called and 
said they had an opening for her. This was a good timing because of freeze 
warning coming to our way. I already have another cat and I didn't want to 
bring her home without knowing that she is healthy...We-me and the kids-were 
so happy to bring her to safety. They asked me to sign a form saying that I 
gave all her rights to the shelter. I was puzzled but knowing that it was a 
no-kill shelter I was not that concerned. I put a note saying that I was not 
the owner and she probably had an owner...I asked a lot of questions, when 
would we know about her health, how can we adopt her, can I visit her etc.? I 
told them we were planning to adopt her but my husband needed to be 
convinced...They told me the vet would be coming on Thursday and the blood test 
would be back and she would be in pet finder after a while. They said no to 
visitation and no to adopting her right from the shelter...I said what if 
someone adopts her before we see the > ad, please call me etc...And then we 
left. I didn't know that I brought her to her death by my hands thinking I was 
doing the right thing... I called them Saturday and they informed me that they 
"put her to sleep" on Friday because she had FeLV+...I said why didn't you 
call? no answer...Between killing an animal and making a phone call they picked 
killing her. After I read online that there are many false positive on this 
test ( I don;t think anyone bothered to do the second test) and even if she was 
positive she could be living a long life in a one-cat household...I can't 
believe any animal lover would be that quick to kill one without exploring 
other options or calling someone-me- who showed extreme interest on saving this 
cat...Please anyone let me know if this is what they do in the shelters? Is 
there anything we can do to change their policy? She even gave me a line of " 
oh, you did such a good job taking care of her, she would have died if not for 
you" No one ever mentioned me killing the cat-never...If they did I wouldn't 
leave River there. Please drop me a few lines, I am still crying and I think I 
owe this to River to at least question their actions...I can't even look over 
the shed which is cross the road from my home-impossible to avoid and couldn't 
even tell the kids what happened... Thank you for all your help,   Alev  
 From: "ter...@tazzys.org" To: 
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:22 AM Subject: 
Re: [Felvtalk] Nitnoy and felv BTW...would like to add this nasty tumor grew 
so fast within one month before Taz passed. So we were pressed for time and 
had to do whatever it would take. TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTS/SIAMESE & COLLIE 
RESCUE Sultan, WA. 98294 Terrie Mohr-Forker http://tazzys.org/ Non-Profit 
national rescue Dedicated to the welfare of animals.     Copyright © 1999-2012 
tazzys

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Lee Evans]

I just looked up the stats for 2011 for Animal Care Services, our city run 
"shelter".  Well, they are better than 10 years ago when ACS was killing over 
50,000 a year, with the breakdown of 18,000+ cats and the rest dogs. So we can 
be called a "less kill" city.  But far from anything logical. In 2011 they 
killed 21,822 of which 6,813 were cats.  This year's funding (2012) is about 
$9.3 million wasted dollars.  The sad thing is that we could be no-kill in 
about a year, maybe 2 at the most with the proper advertising and expenditure 
of funds.  

Right now TNR is allowed but it is not funded by the City.  Right now we have a 
grant from Best Friends for free and low cost spay/neuter, but only in certain 
zip codes.  What would be needed is about a dozen mobile clinics to be 
circulating in all the neighborhoods at all times, a mass teaching effort to 
have people trap and bring feral cats and owned dogs to the clinic for FREE 
spay and neuter operations.  

An ordinance requiring apartment building owners and duplex owners to write 
into the leases of the tenants a spay/neuter clause that no one gets to rent an 
apartment if their pet is not spayed/neutered and proof shown to the 
manager/owner.  A whole lot of stray cats and dogs come from tenants who 
abandon their pets when they move to another apartment or whose pets go outside 
and get lost and pregnant.  If they abandon a spayed/neutered pet, that's only 
one animal put out.  If the animal isn't fixed, it's dozens of future animals 
born from that one animal.  This is a REAL problem and leads management to call 
Animal Control to clean up the mess and kill the animals. Meanwhile feeders are 
trying to do TNR under the radar because management hasn't gotten educated that 
TNR actually helps the problem not increases it.  

Since most people work outside of their home or during set hours of day, it 
would make more sense to have the free and low cost clinics open during the 
evening to late evening - from 5:00 PM to 10:00 PM for intake with operations 
done during the morning and animal pick up in the next evening, same hours as 
intake, and regular hours on weekends, Saturday and Sunday during the day.  At 
least something more logical than rushing around at 6:00 AM to get the cat to 
the clinic, the kids to school or daycare and the adult to work.  Then 
reversing it to pick up the kid at daycare or school, and the adult to the 
clinic before it closes to get the cat.

The technology is available but the intelligence and sense to use it seems to 
be lacking in people we put in positions of authority. Shelters have become big 
business.  Even prisons are becoming big business. So the fact that more and 
more illogical laws are passed putting people behind bars doesn't bother  our 
government because it's "good for business".  Having too many kids is big 
business because it sells more diapers, more toys, more kids clothes, more 
cribs, etc..  Even being sick is big business so hospitals are allowed to raise 
rates, more tests than are needed are done. More animals are killed testing new 
drugs that could be tested in half the time using upgraded technology.  Sigh.  
I need to get off this Soap Box and go clean the litter boxes.


Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!





 From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 

Yes, per Gavin Nicols' comment on http://www.no-killnews.com/?p=3935 San 
Antonio is nowhere near No Kill (90%+), even if they considered FIV+/Felv+ cats 
healthy, which you indicate they don't: ``For 2012 Fiscal Year to Date, the 
healthy and treatable dogs and cats make up 76% of total intake (in 2011, 
healthy and treatable was 66% of total intake).''  This is an issue that needs 
to be discussed in the No Kill community.
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Beth]

Take care. I know this was a hard lesson to learn, but thank you for trying to 
save River from a life on the street. Maybe your voice will change some things 
at the shelter.


Beth

 
Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org
 



 From: Alev Durmus 
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org"  
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 

Hello again,
 
I am sorry I was out of reach for a while. I sincerely would like to thank each 
and every one of you who took time to read my emails, and took time to gave me 
valuable information. It meant a lot to me.
 
Thank you all, 
 

Alev

From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 

Yes, per Gavin Nicols' comment on http://www.no-killnews.com/?p=3935 San 
Antonio is nowhere near No Kill (90%+), even if they considered FIV+/Felv+ cats 
healthy, which you indicate they don't: ``For 2012 Fiscal Year to Date, the 
healthy and treatable dogs and cats make up 76% of total intake (in 2011, 
healthy and treatable was 66% of total intake).''  This is an issue that needs 
to be discussed in the No Kill community.


On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:

Beth, How wonderful you are.  I had a similar but happier experience.  I was 
known in my city as a rescuer and am on the Board of an animal rights 
organization.  However, I surrendered many cats to the Humane Society, a 
supposedly no-kill shelter in San Antonio, Tx.  Whenever I filled out the 
surrender form, I always added that the cat must be returned to me for any 
reason at any time, whether it was FIV or FeLv or some other situation that 
made the cat unadoptable.  I put it all over the form, told the intake people 
and they agreed.  I knew that they killed FIV+ and FeLv+ cats without asking 
questions.  Most people don't realize this or just don't care as long as they 
can tell themselves that they did their best for the cat.  In addition, the HS 
allows anyone to visit with the cats in visitation rooms, small cubicles with 
cat toys where the cats can be handled and potential adopters can get to know 
them.  This shelter is better than most
 because their intake form does have a place to state that the people 
surrendering the cat can have him/her back in case of something that makes the 
cat unadoptable.  Anyway, one evening the supervising intake person called me.  
She was near tears.  I hadn't surrendered any cats so I wondered what was 
wrong.  She said that they had gotten in two young, gorgeous cats who had 
tested FIV+ and she was ordered to have them euthanized the next day.  She 
asked me if I would foster, since she knew I did not euthanize FIV+ cats.  I 
had none at the time, but I had about 20 other cats.  So I told her that if she 
took the two cats who were occupying my spare room at that time and who tested 
negative for everything, were already fixed and had their rabies shots I would 
take the FIV+ cats.  The exchange was made before the shelter opened the next 
day.  This was entirely against the rules but no one complained.  I got Sugar 
Plum Fairy, a lovely blue-eyed
 white cat who was NOT deaf and Sir Walter, a husky, healthy tabby and white 
boy.  Both were fixed and had their rabies shots.  That was about 7 years ago. 
I named the white one Sugar Plum Fairy and the tabby and white Sir Walter 
because he looked regal. Sugar Plum Fairy is still with me along with 4 other 
FIV+ cats who live in separate quarters from my main group.  Sir Walter passed 
a month ago from kidney cancer.  Up until a month before he passed, he was a 
happy, overweight puss with an attitude.  Sugar is fine because she has other 
companions.  I also have two FIV+ cats mixed in with my main group because they 
are lay back non-fighters who get along with everyone.  No kill shelters are 
becoming much more aware that FIV and FeLv do not have to be a death sentence 
for cats surrendered to them.  It's so awful that Alev had such a painful 
experience.  This used to be the norm in this country but things are slowly 
changing.  We always have to
 speak up for the cats and make sure that we have an understanding when we 
surrender one to a shelter that they will return the cat if anything is wrong.  
Get it in writing and call frequently, visit frequently if you can to see how 
your cat is doing.  The two who were exchanged for Sugar and Wally got adopted 
within two weeks of arriving at the shelter.  FIV is not contagious unless the 
cats get into a major biting and fighting situation.  Most FIV+ cats who are 
neutered do not bite and fight since this is behavior during mating season.  
However, the five cats I have in my special FIV section exhibited some left 
over hostility tendencies from their pre-neuter days

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Alev Durmus]

Hello again,
 
I am sorry I was out of reach for a while. I sincerely would like to thank each 
and every one of you who took time to read my emails, and took time to gave me 
valuable information. It meant a lot to me.
 
Thank you all, 


Alev
 


 From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
  

Yes, per Gavin Nicols' comment on http://www.no-killnews.com/?p=3935 San 
Antonio is nowhere near No Kill (90%+), even if they considered FIV+/Felv+ cats 
healthy, which you indicate they don't: ``For 2012 Fiscal Year to Date, the 
healthy and treatable dogs and cats make up 76% of total intake (in 2011, 
healthy and treatable was 66% of total intake).''  This is an issue that needs 
to be discussed in the No Kill community.


On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:

Beth, How wonderful you are.  I had a similar but happier experience.  I was 
known in my city as a rescuer and am on the Board of an animal rights 
organization.  However, I surrendered many cats to the Humane Society, a 
supposedly no-kill shelter in San Antonio, Tx.  Whenever I filled out the 
surrender form, I always added that the cat must be returned to me for any 
reason at any time, whether it was FIV or FeLv or some other situation that 
made the cat unadoptable.  I put it all over the form, told the intake people 
and they agreed.  I knew that they killed FIV+ and FeLv+ cats without asking 
questions.  Most people don't realize this or just don't care as long as they 
can tell themselves that they did their best for the cat.  In addition, the HS 
allows anyone to visit with the cats in visitation rooms, small cubicles with 
cat toys where the cats can be handled and potential adopters can get to know 
them.  This shelter is better than most
 because their intake form does have a place to state that the people 
surrendering the cat can have him/her back in case of something that makes the 
cat unadoptable.  Anyway, one evening the supervising intake person called me.  
She was near tears.  I hadn't surrendered any cats so I wondered what was 
wrong.  She said that they had gotten in two young, gorgeous cats who had 
tested FIV+ and she was ordered to have them euthanized the next day.  She 
asked me if I would foster, since she knew I did not euthanize FIV+ cats.  I 
had none at the time, but I had about 20 other cats.  So I told her that if she 
took the two cats who were occupying my spare room at that time and who tested 
negative for everything, were already fixed and had their rabies shots I would 
take the FIV+ cats.  The exchange was made before the shelter opened the next 
day.  This was entirely against the rules but no one complained.  I got Sugar 
Plum Fairy, a lovely blue-eyed
 white cat who was NOT deaf and Sir Walter, a husky, healthy tabby and white 
boy.  Both were fixed and had their rabies shots.  That was about 7 years ago. 
I named the white one Sugar Plum Fairy and the tabby and white Sir Walter 
because he looked regal. Sugar Plum Fairy is still with me along with 4 other 
FIV+ cats who live in separate quarters from my main group.  Sir Walter passed 
a month ago from kidney cancer.  Up until a month before he passed, he was a 
happy, overweight puss with an attitude.  Sugar is fine because she has other 
companions.  I also have two FIV+ cats mixed in with my main group because they 
are lay back non-fighters who get along with everyone.  No kill shelters are 
becoming much more aware that FIV and FeLv do not have to be a death sentence 
for cats surrendered to them.  It's so awful that Alev had such a painful 
experience.  This used to be the norm in this country but things are slowly 
changing.  We always have to
 speak up for the cats and make sure that we have an understanding when we 
surrender one to a shelter that they will return the cat if anything is wrong.  
Get it in writing and call frequently, visit frequently if you can to see how 
your cat is doing.  The two who were exchanged for Sugar and Wally got adopted 
within two weeks of arriving at the shelter.  FIV is not contagious unless the 
cats get into a major biting and fighting situation.  Most FIV+ cats who are 
neutered do not bite and fight since this is behavior during mating season.  
However, the five cats I have in my special FIV section exhibited some left 
over hostility tendencies from their pre-neuter days.  That's why they are 
separate from my main group.  The two who are mixed in never exhibited even a 
hiss at anyone.
>
>
>
>
>Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty 
>neighbors too!
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bott

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Yes, per Gavin Nicols' comment on http://www.no-killnews.com/?p=3935 San
Antonio is nowhere near No Kill (90%+), even if they considered FIV+/Felv+
cats healthy, which you indicate they don't: ``For 2012 Fiscal Year to
Date, the healthy and treatable dogs and cats make up 76% of total intake
(in 2011, healthy and treatable was 66% of total intake).''  This is an
issue that needs to be discussed in the No Kill community.

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Lee Evans  wrote:

> Beth, How wonderful you are.  I had a similar but happier experience.  I
> was known in my city as a rescuer and am on the Board of an animal rights
> organization.  However, I surrendered many cats to the Humane Society, a
> supposedly no-kill shelter in San Antonio, Tx.  Whenever I filled out the
> surrender form, I always added that the cat must be returned to me for any
> reason at any time, whether it was FIV or FeLv or some other situation that
> made the cat unadoptable.  I put it all over the form, told the intake
> people and they agreed.  I knew that they killed FIV+ and FeLv+ cats
> without asking questions.  Most people don't realize this or just don't
> care as long as they can tell themselves that they did their best for the
> cat.  In addition, the HS allows anyone to visit with the cats in
> visitation rooms, small cubicles with cat toys where the cats can be
> handled and potential adopters can get to know them.  This shelter is
> better than most because their intake form does have a place to state that
> the people surrendering the cat can have him/her back in case of something
> that makes the cat unadoptable.  Anyway, one evening the supervising intake
> person called me.  She was near tears.  I hadn't surrendered any cats so I
> wondered what was wrong.  She said that they had gotten in two young,
> gorgeous cats who had tested FIV+ and she was ordered to have them
> euthanized the next day.  She asked me if I would foster, since she knew I
> did not euthanize FIV+ cats.  I had none at the time, but I had about 20
> other cats.  So I told her that if she took the two cats who were occupying
> my spare room at that time and who tested negative for everything, were
> already fixed and had their rabies shots I would take the FIV+ cats.  The
> exchange was made before the shelter opened the next day.  This was
> entirely against the rules but no one complained.  I got Sugar Plum Fairy,
> a lovely blue-eyed white cat who was NOT deaf and Sir Walter, a husky,
> healthy tabby and white boy.  Both were fixed and had their rabies shots.
> That was about 7 years ago. I named the white one Sugar Plum Fairy and the
> tabby and white Sir Walter because he looked regal. Sugar Plum Fairy is
> still with me along with 4 other FIV+ cats who live in separate quarters
> from my main group.  Sir Walter passed a month ago from kidney cancer.  Up
> until a month before he passed, he was a happy, overweight puss with an
> attitude.  Sugar is fine because she has other companions.  I also have two
> FIV+ cats mixed in with my main group because they are lay back
> non-fighters who get along with everyone.  No kill shelters are becoming
> much more aware that FIV and FeLv do not have to be a death sentence for
> cats surrendered to them.  It's so awful that Alev had such a painful
> experience.  This used to be the norm in this country but things are slowly
> changing.  We always have to speak up for the cats and make sure that we
> have an understanding when we surrender one to a shelter that they will
> return the cat if anything is wrong.  Get it in writing and call
> frequently, visit frequently if you can to see how your cat is doing.  The
> two who were exchanged for Sugar and Wally got adopted within two weeks of
> arriving at the shelter.  FIV is not contagious unless the cats get into a
> major biting and fighting situation.  Most FIV+ cats who are neutered do
> not bite and fight since this is behavior during mating season.  However,
> the five cats I have in my special FIV section exhibited some left over
> hostility tendencies from their pre-neuter days.  That's why they are
> separate from my main group.  The two who are mixed in never exhibited even
> a hiss at anyone.
>
>
> Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!
>
>
>   --
>


Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http:

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Lee Evans]

Beth, How wonderful you are.  I had a similar but happier experience.  I was 
known in my city as a rescuer and am on the Board of an animal rights 
organization.  However, I surrendered many cats to the Humane Society, a 
supposedly no-kill shelter in San Antonio, Tx.  Whenever I filled out the 
surrender form, I always added that the cat must be returned to me for any 
reason at any time, whether it was FIV or FeLv or some other situation that 
made the cat unadoptable.  I put it all over the form, told the intake people 
and they agreed.  I knew that they killed FIV+ and FeLv+ cats without asking 
questions.  Most people don't realize this or just don't care as long as they 
can tell themselves that they did their best for the cat.  In addition, the HS 
allows anyone to visit with the cats in visitation rooms, small cubicles with 
cat toys where the cats can be handled and potential adopters can get to know 
them.  This shelter is better than most
 because their intake form does have a place to state that the people 
surrendering the cat can have him/her back in case of something that makes the 
cat unadoptable.  Anyway, one evening the supervising intake person called me.  
She was near tears.  I hadn't surrendered any cats so I wondered what was 
wrong.  She said that they had gotten in two young, gorgeous cats who had 
tested FIV+ and she was ordered to have them euthanized the next day.  She 
asked me if I would foster, since she knew I did not euthanize FIV+ cats.  I 
had none at the time, but I had about 20 other cats.  So I told her that if she 
took the two cats who were occupying my spare room at that time and who tested 
negative for everything, were already fixed and had their rabies shots I would 
take the FIV+ cats.  The exchange was made before the shelter opened the next 
day.  This was entirely against the rules but no one complained.  I got Sugar 
Plum Fairy, a lovely blue-eyed
 white cat who was NOT deaf and Sir Walter, a husky, healthy tabby and white 
boy.  Both were fixed and had their rabies shots.  That was about 7 years ago. 
I named the white one Sugar Plum Fairy and the tabby and white Sir Walter 
because he looked regal. Sugar Plum Fairy is still with me along with 4 other 
FIV+ cats who live in separate quarters from my main group.  Sir Walter passed 
a month ago from kidney cancer.  Up until a month before he passed, he was a 
happy, overweight puss with an attitude.  Sugar is fine because she has other 
companions.  I also have two FIV+ cats mixed in with my main group because they 
are lay back non-fighters who get along with everyone.  No kill shelters are 
becoming much more aware that FIV and FeLv do not have to be a death sentence 
for cats surrendered to them.  It's so awful that Alev had such a painful 
experience.  This used to be the norm in this country but things are slowly 
changing.  We always have to
 speak up for the cats and make sure that we have an understanding when we 
surrender one to a shelter that they will return the cat if anything is wrong.  
Get it in writing and call frequently, visit frequently if you can to see how 
your cat is doing.  The two who were exchanged for Sugar and Wally got adopted 
within two weeks of arriving at the shelter.  FIV is not contagious unless the 
cats get into a major biting and fighting situation.  Most FIV+ cats who are 
neutered do not bite and fight since this is behavior during mating season.  
However, the five cats I have in my special FIV section exhibited some left 
over hostility tendencies from their pre-neuter days.  That's why they are 
separate from my main group.  The two who are mixed in never exhibited even a 
hiss at anyone.


 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!





 From: Beth 
To: FeLV Talk  
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 



Alev -

I'm so sorry you had this experience. Unfortunately many "no-kill" shelters are 
really not totally no-kill - they do euthanize for FeLV & FIV, usually because 
they have no place to house/foster the positive cats. 

It is routine for shelters to make you sign all rights over to them. It usually 
will say in that ppw that they euthanize for FeLV & FIV.
It is also normal for you to have to go through the same adoption process as 
anyone else even if you were the one surrendering the animal.
It is crazy, though, that they would not call you & give you the chance to take 
the cat back or permanently foster her. However, their reasoning might have 
been that the cat had been outside & they were afraid you may re-release her 
with a contagious virus.

I had this happen with an FIV+ cat when I 1st moved into my neighborhood. I 
found the cat & he was injured. I already had 5 cats & could not take another, 
so I took him to a local emer

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[janine paton]

Alev, 

I am so sorry this has happened to you and River.  River is a beautiful name, 
btw, and one I gave to a rescue cat we took in recently.  I don't know what 
else 
to say other than I am hoping you someday find peace with what has happened 
knowing your intentions were only the best, and you only wanted to help her.  

Some of these types of shelters have come a long way, but still have a long way 
to go.  They can be ignorant and misinformed and how could you have known this? 
 

Best to you, 

Janine




From: Alev Durmus 
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
Sent: Tue, October 16, 2012 1:12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat


Hi Christiane,

Thank you so much...I am so sorry to find out about all these a little too 
late...Yes, they show kittens, young cats, but very few seniors on their 
website 
for adoption...They are a kill shelter and people do not know this. People are 
happily donating money thinking they are helping the animals, but they are 
helping them to be killed too. What can I do to change this? I want to send 
them 
an email, what should I say? I want to say the right things and not sound like 
a 
crazy  woman...

Thank you so much for your kind words, maybe River will be the reason that this 
shelter does something about their policy. You (and the animals in that area) 
are very lucky. Take care,
 
Alev



 From: Christiane Biagi 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk]  "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 

The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it 
means is they will not kill adoptable animals.  Unfortunately, its up to the 
individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”.  All too 
often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they 
will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a 
healthy easily adoptable animals.  These kinds of facilities never ever publish 
their "euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they 
will kill.  True no kills (as we think it means & as defined by Nathan 
Winograd) 
are tough to find.  I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans (ARNO) & 
the 
handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally  ill animals who were 
either comatose or in intractable pain.  They never put down for fiv or felv!  

 
The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter & why they wouldn’t have 
alerted 
you to the cat’s test results & given you some time demonstrates an attitude 
that is unfortunately all too common.  I’m so sorry this happened to you but 
please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t had in a 
very long time.
 
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Alev 
Durmus
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Edna Taylor]

Oh, I saw where you said you signed the Houston petition which is why I thought 
you were here.

 From: alev_dur...@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 15:40:28 -0400
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

Hi Edna,
No, I am in MA. thank you,

Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 16, 2012, at 2:39 PM, Edna Taylor  wrote:





Alev, are you in Houston, TX.  What shelter was this?
 
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:17:14 -0700
From: alev_dur...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

Thank you Kathryn,
I signed the Houston petition already...I hope you guys get enough people on 
time. I checked the list, it was not in it before. I will check the new one 
too. I am thinking to send them an email about what I think of them and send a 
FB messages to people around town to warn that this shelter is not "no-kill" I 
don't know what else I can do?
Thank you so much to you all for all you support and info, really, sharing this 
with you made me cry more but better than holding in... 
Alev 
From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
 Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:07 PM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+
 cat
   

Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those for 
which they have cages!  Outta space, outta luck.

As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now No 
Kill.  As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is looking 
for them.   In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill communities 
list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the above someone's 
blog:

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: 
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see the right 
sidebar)





On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Christiane Biagi  wrote:

The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it 
means is they will not kill adoptable animals.  Unfortunately, its up to the 
individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”.  All too 
often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they 
will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a 
healthy easily adoptable animals.  These kinds of facilities never ever publish 
their "euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they 
will kill.  True no kills (as we think it means & as defined by Nathan 
Winograd) are tough to find.  I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans 
(ARNO) & the
 handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill animals who were 
either comatose or in intractable pain.  They never put down for fiv or felv!  


 The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter & why they wouldn’t have 
alerted you to the cat’s test results & given you some time demonstrates an 
attitude that is unfortunately all too common.  I’m so sorry this happened to 
you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t 
had in a very long time.



 


From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Alev 
Durmus



Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat


  
___




Felvtalk mailing list

Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

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-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!
If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their 
life.  Contact your local pound for information. 



If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to 
free up cage space.

Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by 
implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/




Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: 
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/




Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/




More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially 
http://vimeo.com/48445902






Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: 
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537






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Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Sorry, Gmail messed up my link (says one thing and goes somewhere else)!
Here it is, all fixed up:

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

If your shelter meets the criteria on http://www.no-killnews.com/?page_id=8 and
is not in this list, then alert the blog author.   She's trying to find No
Kill communities as fast as she can, and it helps her if you tell her.  You
can subscribe to the email alerts (form in the left sidebar), and then
email her your information.  (This goes for everyone, not just Beth.)   The
more shelters we know about, the more we can convince/force kill shelters
to change their ways.


On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:55 AM, Beth  wrote:

> These all look like Animal Control Facilities.
> Our shelter is definitely no-kill & we are not on there.
>
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org <http://www.furkids.org/>
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:07 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those
> for which they have cages!  Outta space, outta luck.
>
>
> As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now
> No Kill.  As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is
> looking for them.   In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill
> communities list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the
> above someone's blog:
>
> Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see the
> right sidebar)
>
>
>
>
>
-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
<http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Alev]

Hi Edna,

No, I am in MA. 
thank you,

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 16, 2012, at 2:39 PM, Edna Taylor  wrote:

> Alev, are you in Houston, TX.  What shelter was this?
>  
> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:17:14 -0700
> From: alev_dur...@yahoo.com
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
> 
> Thank you Kathryn,
> 
> I signed the Houston petition already...I hope you guys get enough people on 
> time. I checked the list, it was not in it before. I will check the new one 
> too. I am thinking to send them an email about what I think of them and send 
> a FB messages to people around town to warn that this shelter is not 
> "no-kill" I don't know what else I can do?
> 
> Thank you so much to you all for all you support and info, really, sharing 
> this with you made me cry more but better than holding in...
>  
> 
> Alev 
> From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
> 
> Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those for 
> which they have cages!  Outta space, outta luck.
> 
> 
> As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now No 
> Kill.  As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is looking 
> for them.   In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill communities 
> list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the above 
> someone's blog:
> 
> Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: 
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see the 
> right sidebar)
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Christiane Biagi  
> wrote:
> The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all 
> it means is they will not kill adoptable animals.  Unfortunately, its up to 
> the individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”.  All 
> too often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that 
> they will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill 
> a healthy easily adoptable animals.  These kinds of facilities never ever 
> publish their "euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on 
> who they will kill.  True no kills (as we think it means & as defined by 
> Nathan Winograd) are tough to find.  I volunteer for one such shelter in New 
> Orleans (ARNO) & the handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally 
> ill animals who were either comatose or in intractable pain.  They never put 
> down for fiv or felv! 
>  
> The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter & why they wouldn’t have 
> alerted you to the cat’s test results & given you some time demonstrates an 
> attitude that is unfortunately all too common.  I’m so sorry this happened to 
> you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t 
> had in a very long time.
>  
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Alev 
> Durmus
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>  
>  
> 
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!
> 
> If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their 
> life.  Contact your local pound for information. 
> 
> If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to 
> free up cage space.
> 
> 
> Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by 
> implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/
> 
> Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: 
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/
> 
> Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
> 
> More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/
> 
> More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially 
> http://vimeo.com/48445902
> 
> 
> 
> Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: 
> http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
> 
> 
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felin

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Beth]

Most of the pounds (what we refer to as animal control facilites) here do not 
test, either. But there are plenty of taxempt charitable shelters, & some of 
them are truly no-kill. We go above & beyond what most other shelters do. We 
have to test & make sure the animals are fixed & vaccinated before being 
adopted.

Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org
 



 From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 

Los Angeles.  Neither the city not the county pounds test.



On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:11 AM, CATHERINE DIDONNA  
wrote:

around here doesn't say where you are??
>
>
>From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
>Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:29 PM
>
>Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
>
>I (and others) use the term ``pound'' for all so-called ``shelters'' that are 
>not truly No Kill (saving 90%+).   
>
>
>
>On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Beth  wrote:
>
>According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill shelter.
>>"Pounds" are usually owned by the local municipality.
>>
>> 
>> 
>>Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! http://www.furkids.org/
>> 
>>
>>
>>From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
>>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
>>Cc: Alev Durmus  
>>Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>>
>>
>>
>>What pound was this?   
>>
>>
>>That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they 
>>don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it.   Of course, I think 
>>they should test, and still not kill for it.
>>
>>
>>These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the 
>>U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/   Since 
>>they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list 
>>compiler's standards.   There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase 
>>letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are 
>>no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations.   
>>
>>
>>The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to 
>>somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of 
>>Information Act).  If you're lucky, they post them on their website.
>>
>>
>>Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately.   See 
>>the bottom of my messages for how to change this.  Fortunately, now that 
>>people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill 
>>shelters.   All it will take is time.  Hopefully, in my lifetime.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>___
>>Felvtalk mailing list
>>Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>>http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>
>Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! 
>
>
>If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their 
>life.  Contact your local pound for information.  
>
>
>If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to 
>free up cage space.
>
>
>Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by 
>implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/
>
>
>Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: 
>http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/
>
>Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
>
>More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/
>
>More fun watching: 
>http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to 
>respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
>
>
>___
>Felvtalk mailing list
>Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
>___
>Felvtalk mailing list
>Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
&

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Beth]

These all look like Animal Control Facilities.
Our shelter is definitely no-kill & we are not on there.

 
Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org
 



 From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 

Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those for 
which they have cages!  Outta space, outta luck.


As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now No 
Kill.  As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is looking 
for them.   In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill communities 
list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the above someone's 
blog:

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill 
communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see
 the right sidebar)





On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Christiane Biagi  wrote:

The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it 
means is they will not kill adoptable animals.  Unfortunately, its up to the 
individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”.  All too 
often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they 
will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a 
healthy easily adoptable animals.  These kinds of facilities never ever publish 
their "euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they 
will kill.  True no kills (as we think it means & as defined by Nathan 
Winograd) are tough to find.  I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans 
(ARNO) & the handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill 
animals who were either comatose or in intractable pain.  They never put down 
for fiv or felv!  
> 
>The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter & why they wouldn’t have 
>alerted you to the cat’s test results & given you some time demonstrates an 
>attitude that is unfortunately all too common.  I’m so sorry this happened to 
>you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t 
>had in a very long time.
> 
>From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Alev 
>Durmus
>Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM
>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>Subject: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
> 
> 
>___
>Felvtalk mailing list
>Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their 
life.  Contact your local pound for information. 


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to 
free up cage space.

Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by 
implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: 
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: 
http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902




Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to 
respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Beth]

I've never heard of a true shelter not testing for FIV or FeLV. That sounds 
more like an animal control facility.
The Dept of Agriculture wouldn't let us adopt out animals unless we had tested 
them.


 
Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org
 



 From: CATHERINE DIDONNA 
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org"  
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 

around here doesn't say where you are??

From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat


I (and others) use the term ``pound'' for all so-called ``shelters'' that are 
not truly No Kill (saving 90%+).   



On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Beth  wrote:

According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill shelter.
>"Pounds" are usually owned by the local municipality.
>
> 
> 
>Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! http://www.furkids.org/
> 
>
>
>From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
>Cc: Alev Durmus  
>Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM
>Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
>
>
>What pound was this?   
>
>
>That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they 
>don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it.   Of course, I think 
>they should test, and still not kill for it.
>
>
>These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the 
>U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/   Since 
>they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list 
>compiler's standards.   There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase 
>letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are 
>no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations.   
>
>
>The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to 
>somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of 
>Information Act).  If you're lucky, they post them on their website.
>
>
>Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately.   See 
>the bottom of my messages for how to change this.  Fortunately, now that 
>people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill 
>shelters.   All it will take is time.  Hopefully, in my lifetime.
>
>
>
>
>
>___
>Felvtalk mailing list
>Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! 

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their 
life.  Contact your local pound for information.  


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to 
free up cage space.

Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by 
implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: 
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: 
http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902




Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to 
respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org



___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Edna Taylor]

Alev, are you in Houston, TX.  What shelter was this?
 Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:17:14 -0700
From: alev_dur...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

Thank you Kathryn,
I signed the Houston petition already...I hope you guys get enough people on 
time. I checked the list, it was not in it before. I will check the new one 
too. I am thinking to send them an email about what I think of them and send a 
FB messages to people around town to warn that this shelter is not "no-kill" I 
don't know what else I can do?
Thank you so much to you all for all you support and info, really, sharing this 
with you made me cry more but better than holding in... 
Alev 
From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
 Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:07 PM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+
 cat
   

Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those for 
which they have cages!  Outta space, outta luck.

As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now No 
Kill.  As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is looking 
for them.   In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill communities 
list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the above someone's 
blog:

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: 
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see the right 
sidebar)





On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Christiane Biagi  wrote:

The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it 
means is they will not kill adoptable animals.  Unfortunately, its up to the 
individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”.  All too 
often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they 
will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a 
healthy easily adoptable animals.  These kinds of facilities never ever publish 
their "euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they 
will kill.  True no kills (as we think it means & as defined by Nathan 
Winograd) are tough to find.  I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans 
(ARNO) & the
 handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill animals who were 
either comatose or in intractable pain.  They never put down for fiv or felv!  


 The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter & why they wouldn’t have 
alerted you to the cat’s test results & given you some time demonstrates an 
attitude that is unfortunately all too common.  I’m so sorry this happened to 
you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t 
had in a very long time.


 


From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Alev 
Durmus



Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat


  
___




Felvtalk mailing list

Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org




-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!
If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their 
life.  Contact your local pound for information. 



If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to 
free up cage space.

Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by 
implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/




Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: 
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/




Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/




More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially 
http://vimeo.com/48445902






Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: 
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537






___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org



___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org  
  ___
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Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Although that could be a good warning shot, they may just ignore you and
not doing anything.

The way to change things is to go to, say, the city council, or whomever
hired them, and tell them you do not like what this pound is doing.
Whatever you do, act professional.   Dress professionally and tell them
calmly you are a constituent who is concerned about what is going on.


On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Alev Durmus  wrote:

> Hi Christiane,
>
> Thank you so much...I am so sorry to find out about all these a little too
> late...Yes, they show kittens, young cats, but very few seniors on their
> website for adoption...They are a kill shelter and people do not know this.
> People are happily donating money thinking they are helping the animals,
> but they are helping them to be killed too. What can I do to change this? I
> want to send them an email, what should I say? I want to say the right
> things and not sound like a crazy woman...
>
> Thank you so much for your kind words, maybe River will be the reason that
> this shelter does something about their policy. You (and the animals in
> that area) are very lucky. Take care,
>
> Alev
>   --
> *From:* Christiane Biagi 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM
>
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that
> all it means is they will not kill adoptable animals.  Unfortunately, its
> up to the individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider
> “adoptable”.  All too often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no
> kill” really mean that they will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior,
> etc. animals but never kill a healthy easily adoptable animals.  These
> kinds of facilities never ever publish their "euthanasia matrix” which is
> where they define their policy on who they will kill.  True no kills (as we
> think it means & as defined by Nathan Winograd) are tough to find.  I
> volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans (ARNO) & the handful of
> animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill animals who were either
> comatose or in intractable pain.  They never put down for fiv or felv!
>
> The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter & why they wouldn’t have
> alerted you to the cat’s test results & given you some time demonstrates an
> attitude that is unfortunately all too common.  I’m so sorry this happened
> to you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely
> hadn’t had in a very long time.
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Alev Durmus
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/
(see
the right sidebar)

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Alev Durmus]

Thank you Kathryn,

I signed the Houston petition already...I hope you guys get enough people on 
time. I checked the list, it was not in it before. I will check the new one 
too. I am thinking to send them an email about what I think of them and send a 
FB messages to people around town to warn that this shelter is not "no-kill" I 
don't know what else I can do?

Thank you so much to you all for all you support and info, really, sharing this 
with you made me cry more but better than holding in...
 

Alev 



 From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 

Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those for 
which they have cages!  Outta space, outta luck.


As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now No 
Kill.  As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is looking 
for them.   In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill communities 
list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the above someone's 
blog:

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill 
communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see
 the right sidebar)





On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Christiane Biagi  wrote:

The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it 
means is they will not kill adoptable animals.  Unfortunately, its up to the 
individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”.  All too 
often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they 
will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a 
healthy easily adoptable animals.  These kinds of facilities never ever publish 
their "euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they 
will kill.  True no kills (as we think it means & as defined by Nathan 
Winograd) are tough to find.  I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans 
(ARNO) & the handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill 
animals who were either comatose or in intractable pain.  They never put down 
for fiv or felv!  
> 
>The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter & why they wouldn’t have 
>alerted you to the cat’s test results & given you some time demonstrates an 
>attitude that is unfortunately all too common.  I’m so sorry this happened to 
>you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t 
>had in a very long time.
> 
>From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Alev 
>Durmus
>Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM
>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>Subject: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
> 
> 
>___
>Felvtalk mailing list
>Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their 
life.  Contact your local pound for information. 


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to 
free up cage space.

Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by 
implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: 
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: 
http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902




Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to 
respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Los Angeles.  Neither the city not the county pounds test.


On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:11 AM, CATHERINE DIDONNA wrote:

> around here doesn't say where you are??
>
>   *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:29 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> I (and others) use the term ``pound'' for all so-called ``shelters'' that
> are not truly No Kill (saving 90%+).
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Beth  wrote:
>
>  According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill
> shelter.
> "Pounds" are usually owned by the local municipality.
>
>
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! http://www.furkids.org/
>
>
>*From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Cc:* Alev Durmus 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> What pound was this?
>
> That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that
> they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it.   Of course,
> I think they should test, and still not kill for it.
>
> These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.:
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/   Since
> they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list
> compiler's standards.   There are many so-called no-kill (note the
> lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say
> they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations.
>
> The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to
> somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom
> of Information Act).  If you're lucky, they post them on their website.
>
> Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately.
> See the bottom of my messages for how to change this.  Fortunately, now
> that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No
> Kill shelters.   All it will take is time.  Hopefully, in my lifetime.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!
>
> If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save
> their life.  Contact your local pound for information. 
> <http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>
>
> If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
> to free up cage space.
>
>
> Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
> implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/
>
> Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/
>
> Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org
>
> More fun reading:
> http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/
>
> More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
> http://vimeo.com/48445902
>
>
>
> Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
> http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
<http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/<http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/>
(see
the righ

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Alev Durmus]

Hi Christiane,

Thank you so much...I am so sorry to find out about all these a little too 
late...Yes, they show kittens, young cats, but very few seniors on their 
website for adoption...They are a kill shelter and people do not know this. 
People are happily donating money thinking they are helping the animals, but 
they are helping them to be killed too. What can I do to change this? I want to 
send them an email, what should I say? I want to say the right things and not 
sound like a crazy woman...

Thank you so much for your kind words, maybe River will be the reason that this 
shelter does something about their policy. You (and the animals in that area) 
are very lucky. Take care,
 
Alev



 From: Christiane Biagi 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk]  "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 

The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it 
means is they will not kill adoptable animals.  Unfortunately, its up to the 
individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”.  All too 
often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they 
will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a 
healthy easily adoptable animals.  These kinds of facilities never ever publish 
their "euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they 
will kill.  True no kills (as we think it means & as defined by Nathan 
Winograd) are tough to find.  I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans 
(ARNO) & the handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill 
animals who were either comatose or in intractable pain.  They never put down 
for fiv or felv!  
 
The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter & why they wouldn’t have 
alerted you to the cat’s test results & given you some time demonstrates an 
attitude that is unfortunately all too common.  I’m so sorry this happened to 
you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t 
had in a very long time.
 
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Alev 
Durmus
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 
 
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[CATHERINE DIDONNA]

around here doesn't say where you are??

From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat


I (and others) use the term ``pound'' for all so-called ``shelters'' that are 
not truly No Kill (saving 90%+).   



On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Beth  wrote:

According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill shelter.
>"Pounds" are usually owned by the local municipality.
>
>
>
>
>Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! http://www.furkids.org/
> 
>
>
>From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
>To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
>Cc: Alev Durmus  
>Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM
>Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
>
>
>What pound was this?   
>
>
>That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they 
>don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it.   Of course, I think 
>they should test, and still not kill for it.
>
>
>These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the 
>U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/   Since 
>they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list 
>compiler's standards.   There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase 
>letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are 
>no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations.   
>
>
>The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to 
>somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of 
>Information Act).  If you're lucky, they post them on their website.
>
>
>Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately.   See 
>the bottom of my messages for how to change this.  Fortunately, now that 
>people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill 
>shelters.   All it will take is time.  Hopefully, in my lifetime.
>
>
>
>
>
>___
>Felvtalk mailing list
>Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! 

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their 
life.  Contact your local pound for information.  


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to 
free up cage space.

Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by 
implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: 
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: 
http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902




Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to 
respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those for
which they have cages!  Outta space, outta luck.


As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now
No Kill.  As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is
looking for them.   In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill
communities list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the
above someone's blog:

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.no-killnews.com/
(see
the right sidebar)



On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Christiane Biagi wrote:

> The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that
> all it means is they will not kill adoptable animals.  Unfortunately, its
> up to the individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider
> “adoptable”.  All too often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no
> kill” really mean that they will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior,
> etc. animals but never kill a healthy easily adoptable animals.  These
> kinds of facilities never ever publish their "euthanasia matrix” which is
> where they define their policy on who they will kill.  True no kills (as we
> think it means & as defined by Nathan Winograd) are tough to find.  I
> volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans (ARNO) & the handful of
> animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill animals who were either
> comatose or in intractable pain.  They never put down for fiv or felv!  **
> **
>
> ** **
>
> The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter & why they wouldn’t have
> alerted you to the cat’s test results & given you some time demonstrates an
> attitude that is unfortunately all too common.  I’m so sorry this happened
> to you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely
> hadn’t had in a very long time.
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Alev Durmus
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

Yes, that term is bandied about, too.

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Alev Durmus  wrote:

> They may call themselves a "shelter" but killing the animals dragged them
> down to a level of  a "pound" I would call them a "death camp" if you ask
> me...
> This shelter/pound I brought River is a charity organization I believe and
> works with donations.
>
>
> Alev
>   --
> *From:* Beth 
> *To:* "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:26 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill
> shelter.
> "Pounds" are usually owned by the local municipality.
>
>
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org <http://www.furkids.org/>
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Cc:* Alev Durmus 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> What pound was this?
>
> That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that
> they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it.   Of course,
> I think they should test, and still not kill for it.
>
> These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.:
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/   Since
> they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list
> compiler's standards.   There are many so-called no-kill (note the
> lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say
> they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations.
>
> The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to
> somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom
> of Information Act).  If you're lucky, they post them on their website.
>
> Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately.
> See the bottom of my messages for how to change this.  Fortunately, now
> that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No
> Kill shelters.   All it will take is time.  Hopefully, in my lifetime.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
<http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Alev Durmus]

They may call themselves a "shelter" but killing the animals dragged them down 
to a level of  a "pound" I would call them a "death camp" if you ask me...
This shelter/pound I brought River is a charity organization I believe and 
works with donations. 
 

Alev 



 From: Beth 
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org"  
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 

According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill shelter.
"Pounds" are usually owned by the local municipality.

 
 
Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org
 



 From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Cc: Alev Durmus  
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 

What pound was this?  

That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they 
don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it.   Of course, I think 
they should test, and still not kill for it.


These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the 
U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/   Since 
they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list 
compiler's standards.   There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase 
letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are 
no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations.   

The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to 
somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of 
Information Act).  If you're lucky, they post them on their website.

Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately.   See the 
bottom of my messages for how to change this.  Fortunately, now that people 
know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill shelters.   
All it will take is time.  Hopefully, in my lifetime.



___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

I (and others) use the term ``pound'' for all so-called ``shelters'' that
are not truly No Kill (saving 90%+).


On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Beth  wrote:

> According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill
> shelter.
> "Pounds" are usually owned by the local municipality.
>
>
> Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org <http://www.furkids.org/>
>
>
>   --
> *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves 
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Cc:* Alev Durmus 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
>
> What pound was this?
>
> That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that
> they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it.   Of course,
> I think they should test, and still not kill for it.
>
> These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.:
> http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/   Since
> they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list
> compiler's standards.   There are many so-called no-kill (note the
> lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say
> they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations.
>
> The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to
> somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom
> of Information Act).  If you're lucky, they post them on their website.
>
> Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately.
> See the bottom of my messages for how to change this.  Fortunately, now
> that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No
> Kill shelters.   All it will take is time.  Hopefully, in my lifetime.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.
<http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm>

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/<http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/>

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Beth]

According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill shelter.
"Pounds" are usually owned by the local municipality.

 
 
Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org
 



 From: Kathryn Hargreaves 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Cc: Alev Durmus  
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 

What pound was this?  

That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they 
don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it.   Of course, I think 
they should test, and still not kill for it.


These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the 
U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/   Since 
they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list 
compiler's standards.   There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase 
letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are 
no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations.   

The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to 
somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of 
Information Act).  If you're lucky, they post them on their website.

Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately.   See the 
bottom of my messages for how to change this.  Fortunately, now that people 
know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill shelters.   
All it will take is time.  Hopefully, in my lifetime.___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Kathryn Hargreaves]

What pound was this?

That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that
they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it.   Of course,
I think they should test, and still not kill for it.

These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/   Since
they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list
compiler's standards.   There are many so-called no-kill (note the
lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say
they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations.

The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to
somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom
of Information Act).  If you're lucky, they post them on their website.

Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately.   See
the bottom of my messages for how to change this.  Fortunately, now that
people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill
shelters.   All it will take is time.  Hopefully, in my lifetime.


On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 7:15 AM, Alev Durmus  wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I feel for all of you who lost your cat(s). I have lost one too many and I
> can't bring myself to think losing another one. I would like to share
> something with you all and ask your opinions and advice since I am not
> originally from the US and I don't know how things go over here plus I
> might not be thinking straight because I am very upset. This happened on
> Saturday and I have been crying since...
>
> I came across to this cat-we named her River-less than 2 weeks ago cross
> the road from my home in an unused shed. I usually don't look around but
> for some reason, I looked towards the shed and there she was looking at
> me...She was not moving a lot, sickly and skinny. I started feeding her,
> she ate a lot and became more energetic in 2 days. She had started
> wandering around since she wasn't starving anymore and I became afraid of
> coyotes killing her or cold weather coming soon. I called the local no-kill
> shelter to ask what to do. They told me to take pictures and uploaded on
> their facebook page in order to locate her owners. She definitely had
> owners once and probably was dumped...She was a very loving sweet cat. I
> suspected, being a house cat she didn't know what to do to feed herself and
> that's why she was in that shape. After a while she was so great, even if
> she was not in the shed, she would come running when I called her. A few
> days later shelter called and said they had an opening for her. This was a
> good timing because of freeze warning coming to our way. I already have
> another cat and I didn't want to bring her home without knowing that she is
> healthy...We-me and the kids-were so happy to bring her to safety. They
> asked me to sign a form saying that I gave all her rights to the shelter. I
> was puzzled but knowing that it was a no-kill shelter I was
> not that concerned. I put a note saying that I was not the owner and she
> probably had an owner...I asked a lot of questions, when would we know
> about her health, how can we adopt her, can I visit her etc.? I told them
> we were planning to adopt her but my husband needed to be convinced...They
> told me the vet would be coming on Thursday and the blood test would be
> back and she would be in pet finder after a while. They said no to
> visitation and no to adopting her right from the shelter...I said what if
> someone adopts her before we see the ad, please call me etc...And then we
> left. I didn't know that I brought her to her death by my hands thinking I
> was doing the right thing...
>
> I called them Saturday and they informed me that they "put her to sleep"
> on Friday because she had FeLV+...I said why didn't you call? no
> answer...Between killing an animal and making a phone call they picked
> killing her. After I read online that there are many false positive on this
> test ( I don;t think anyone bothered to do the second test) and even if she
> was positive she could be living a long life in a one-cat household...I
> can't believe any animal lover would be that quick to kill one without
> exploring other options or calling someone-me- who showed extreme interest
> on saving this cat...Please anyone let me know if this is what they do in
> the shelters? Is there anything we can do to change their policy? She even
> gave me a line of " oh, you did such a good job taking care of her, she
> would have died if not for you"
>
> No one ever mentioned me killing the cat-never...If they did I wouldn't
> leave River there.
>
> Please drop me a few lines, I am still crying and I think I owe this to
> River to at least question their actions...I can't even look over the shed
> which is cross the road from my home-impossible to avoid and couldn't even
> tell the kids what happened...
>
> Thank

Re: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat

[Beth]

Alev -

I'm so sorry you had this experience. Unfortunately many "no-kill" shelters are 
really not totally no-kill - they do euthanize for FeLV & FIV, usually because 
they have no place to house/foster the positive cats. 

It is routine for shelters to make you sign all rights over to them. It usually 
will say in that ppw that they euthanize for FeLV & FIV.
It is also normal for you to have to go through the same adoption process as 
anyone else even if you were the one surrendering the animal.
It is crazy, though, that they would not call you & give you the chance to take 
the cat back or permanently foster her. However, their reasoning might have 
been that the cat had been outside & they were afraid you may re-release her 
with a contagious virus.

I had this happen with an FIV+ cat when I 1st moved into my neighborhood. I 
found the cat & he was injured. I already had 5 cats & could not take another, 
so I took him to a local emergency vet that had an "injured stray" program. 
They took in donations for injured strays & then adopted them out. When I 
called back to find out how he was they said he tested positive for FIV & they 
were going to euthanize him. I begged them to give me time to find someone to 
take him - I had a friend with an FIV+ cat. Unfortunately she could not take 
him. So I called the vet & said I would take him back. They then said NO - They 
could not trust that I would not let him outside again & he was contagious. I 
pleaded with them to wait for my vet's office to open the next day & have her 
vouch for me (they knew my vet well). She did & I was able to pick him up. He 
lived 10 healthy years with me.

BTW our shelter does NOT euthanize for FeLV or FIV. I foster FeLV cats for them 
& we actually rent a house for the FIV cats to live in.
You can see the FIV cat's FB page here:  
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Furkids-FIV-House/217196318335990?ref=ts&fref=ts

Beth

 
Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org
 



 From: Alev Durmus 
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org"  
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM
Subject: [Felvtalk] "No-kill" animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
 

Dear all,

I feel for all of you who lost your cat(s). I have lost one too many and I 
can't bring myself to think losing another one. I would like to share something 
with you all and ask your opinions and advice since I am not originally from 
the US and I don't know how things go over here plus I might not be thinking 
straight because I am very upset. This happened on Saturday and I have been 
crying since...

I came across to this cat-we named her River-less than 2 weeks ago cross the 
road from my home in an unused shed. I usually don't look around but for some 
reason, I looked towards the shed and there she was looking at me...She was not 
moving a lot, sickly and skinny. I started feeding her, she ate a lot and 
became more energetic in 2 days. She had started wandering around since she 
wasn't starving anymore and I became afraid of coyotes killing her or cold 
weather coming soon. I called the local no-kill shelter to ask what to do. They 
told me to take pictures and uploaded on their facebook page in order to locate 
her owners. She definitely had owners once and probably was dumped...She was a 
very loving sweet cat. I suspected, being a house cat she didn't know what to 
do to feed herself and that's why she was in that shape. After a while she was 
so great, even if she was not in the shed, she would come running when I called 
her. A few days later
 shelter called and said they had an opening for her. This was a good timing 
because of freeze warning coming to our way. I already have another cat and I 
didn't want to bring her home without knowing that she is healthy...We-me and 
the kids-were so happy to bring her to safety. They asked me to sign a form 
saying that I gave all her rights to the shelter. I was puzzled but knowing 
that it was a no-kill shelter I was not that concerned. I put a note saying 
that I was not the owner and she probably had an owner...I asked a lot of 
questions, when would we know about her health, how can we adopt her, can I 
visit her etc.? I told them we were planning to adopt her but my husband needed 
to be convinced...They told me the vet would be coming on Thursday and the 
blood test would be back and she would be in pet finder after a while. They 
said no to visitation and no to adopting her right from the shelter...I said 
what if someone adopts her before we see the
 ad, please call me etc...And then we left. I didn't know that I brought her to 
her death by my hands thinking I was doing the right thing...

I called them Saturday and they informed me that they "put her to sleep" on 
Friday because she had FeLV+...I said why didn't you call? no answer...Between 
killing an animal and making a phone call they picked killing her. After I read 
online that there are many false positive on this test ( I don;t think an