Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Hello again, I am sorry I was out of reach for a while. I sincerely would like to thank each and every one of you who took time to read my emails, and took time to gave me valuable information. It meant a lot to me. Thank you all, Alev From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Yes, per Gavin Nicols' comment on http://www.no-killnews.com/?p=3935 San Antonio is nowhere near No Kill (90%+), even if they considered FIV+/Felv+ cats healthy, which you indicate they don't: ``For 2012 Fiscal Year to Date, the healthy and treatable dogs and cats make up 76% of total intake (in 2011, healthy and treatable was 66% of total intake).'' This is an issue that needs to be discussed in the No Kill community. On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: Beth, How wonderful you are. I had a similar but happier experience. I was known in my city as a rescuer and am on the Board of an animal rights organization. However, I surrendered many cats to the Humane Society, a supposedly no-kill shelter in San Antonio, Tx. Whenever I filled out the surrender form, I always added that the cat must be returned to me for any reason at any time, whether it was FIV or FeLv or some other situation that made the cat unadoptable. I put it all over the form, told the intake people and they agreed. I knew that they killed FIV+ and FeLv+ cats without asking questions. Most people don't realize this or just don't care as long as they can tell themselves that they did their best for the cat. In addition, the HS allows anyone to visit with the cats in visitation rooms, small cubicles with cat toys where the cats can be handled and potential adopters can get to know them. This shelter is better than most because their intake form does have a place to state that the people surrendering the cat can have him/her back in case of something that makes the cat unadoptable. Anyway, one evening the supervising intake person called me. She was near tears. I hadn't surrendered any cats so I wondered what was wrong. She said that they had gotten in two young, gorgeous cats who had tested FIV+ and she was ordered to have them euthanized the next day. She asked me if I would foster, since she knew I did not euthanize FIV+ cats. I had none at the time, but I had about 20 other cats. So I told her that if she took the two cats who were occupying my spare room at that time and who tested negative for everything, were already fixed and had their rabies shots I would take the FIV+ cats. The exchange was made before the shelter opened the next day. This was entirely against the rules but no one complained. I got Sugar Plum Fairy, a lovely blue-eyed white cat who was NOT deaf and Sir Walter, a husky, healthy tabby and white boy. Both were fixed and had their rabies shots. That was about 7 years ago. I named the white one Sugar Plum Fairy and the tabby and white Sir Walter because he looked regal. Sugar Plum Fairy is still with me along with 4 other FIV+ cats who live in separate quarters from my main group. Sir Walter passed a month ago from kidney cancer. Up until a month before he passed, he was a happy, overweight puss with an attitude. Sugar is fine because she has other companions. I also have two FIV+ cats mixed in with my main group because they are lay back non-fighters who get along with everyone. No kill shelters are becoming much more aware that FIV and FeLv do not have to be a death sentence for cats surrendered to them. It's so awful that Alev had such a painful experience. This used to be the norm in this country but things are slowly changing. We always have to speak up for the cats and make sure that we have an understanding when we surrender one to a shelter that they will return the cat if anything is wrong. Get it in writing and call frequently, visit frequently if you can to see how your cat is doing. The two who were exchanged for Sugar and Wally got adopted within two weeks of arriving at the shelter. FIV is not contagious unless the cats get into a major biting and fighting situation. Most FIV+ cats who are neutered do not bite and fight since this is behavior during mating season. However, the five cats I have in my special FIV section exhibited some left over hostility tendencies from their pre-neuter days. That's why they are separate from my main group. The two who are mixed in never exhibited even a hiss at anyone. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Take care. I know this was a hard lesson to learn, but thank you for trying to save River from a life on the street. Maybe your voice will change some things at the shelter. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: Alev Durmus alev_dur...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Hello again, I am sorry I was out of reach for a while. I sincerely would like to thank each and every one of you who took time to read my emails, and took time to gave me valuable information. It meant a lot to me. Thank you all, Alev From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Yes, per Gavin Nicols' comment on http://www.no-killnews.com/?p=3935 San Antonio is nowhere near No Kill (90%+), even if they considered FIV+/Felv+ cats healthy, which you indicate they don't: ``For 2012 Fiscal Year to Date, the healthy and treatable dogs and cats make up 76% of total intake (in 2011, healthy and treatable was 66% of total intake).'' This is an issue that needs to be discussed in the No Kill community. On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: Beth, How wonderful you are. I had a similar but happier experience. I was known in my city as a rescuer and am on the Board of an animal rights organization. However, I surrendered many cats to the Humane Society, a supposedly no-kill shelter in San Antonio, Tx. Whenever I filled out the surrender form, I always added that the cat must be returned to me for any reason at any time, whether it was FIV or FeLv or some other situation that made the cat unadoptable. I put it all over the form, told the intake people and they agreed. I knew that they killed FIV+ and FeLv+ cats without asking questions. Most people don't realize this or just don't care as long as they can tell themselves that they did their best for the cat. In addition, the HS allows anyone to visit with the cats in visitation rooms, small cubicles with cat toys where the cats can be handled and potential adopters can get to know them. This shelter is better than most because their intake form does have a place to state that the people surrendering the cat can have him/her back in case of something that makes the cat unadoptable. Anyway, one evening the supervising intake person called me. She was near tears. I hadn't surrendered any cats so I wondered what was wrong. She said that they had gotten in two young, gorgeous cats who had tested FIV+ and she was ordered to have them euthanized the next day. She asked me if I would foster, since she knew I did not euthanize FIV+ cats. I had none at the time, but I had about 20 other cats. So I told her that if she took the two cats who were occupying my spare room at that time and who tested negative for everything, were already fixed and had their rabies shots I would take the FIV+ cats. The exchange was made before the shelter opened the next day. This was entirely against the rules but no one complained. I got Sugar Plum Fairy, a lovely blue-eyed white cat who was NOT deaf and Sir Walter, a husky, healthy tabby and white boy. Both were fixed and had their rabies shots. That was about 7 years ago. I named the white one Sugar Plum Fairy and the tabby and white Sir Walter because he looked regal. Sugar Plum Fairy is still with me along with 4 other FIV+ cats who live in separate quarters from my main group. Sir Walter passed a month ago from kidney cancer. Up until a month before he passed, he was a happy, overweight puss with an attitude. Sugar is fine because she has other companions. I also have two FIV+ cats mixed in with my main group because they are lay back non-fighters who get along with everyone. No kill shelters are becoming much more aware that FIV and FeLv do not have to be a death sentence for cats surrendered to them. It's so awful that Alev had such a painful experience. This used to be the norm in this country but things are slowly changing. We always have to speak up for the cats and make sure that we have an understanding when we surrender one to a shelter that they will return the cat if anything is wrong. Get it in writing and call frequently, visit frequently if you can to see how your cat is doing. The two who were exchanged for Sugar and Wally got adopted within two weeks of arriving at the shelter. FIV is not contagious unless the cats get into a major biting and fighting situation. Most FIV+ cats who are neutered do not bite and fight since this is behavior during mating season. However, the five cats I have in my special FIV section exhibited some left over hostility tendencies from their pre
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
I just looked up the stats for 2011 for Animal Care Services, our city run shelter. Well, they are better than 10 years ago when ACS was killing over 50,000 a year, with the breakdown of 18,000+ cats and the rest dogs. So we can be called a less kill city. But far from anything logical. In 2011 they killed 21,822 of which 6,813 were cats. This year's funding (2012) is about $9.3 million wasted dollars. The sad thing is that we could be no-kill in about a year, maybe 2 at the most with the proper advertising and expenditure of funds. Right now TNR is allowed but it is not funded by the City. Right now we have a grant from Best Friends for free and low cost spay/neuter, but only in certain zip codes. What would be needed is about a dozen mobile clinics to be circulating in all the neighborhoods at all times, a mass teaching effort to have people trap and bring feral cats and owned dogs to the clinic for FREE spay and neuter operations. An ordinance requiring apartment building owners and duplex owners to write into the leases of the tenants a spay/neuter clause that no one gets to rent an apartment if their pet is not spayed/neutered and proof shown to the manager/owner. A whole lot of stray cats and dogs come from tenants who abandon their pets when they move to another apartment or whose pets go outside and get lost and pregnant. If they abandon a spayed/neutered pet, that's only one animal put out. If the animal isn't fixed, it's dozens of future animals born from that one animal. This is a REAL problem and leads management to call Animal Control to clean up the mess and kill the animals. Meanwhile feeders are trying to do TNR under the radar because management hasn't gotten educated that TNR actually helps the problem not increases it. Since most people work outside of their home or during set hours of day, it would make more sense to have the free and low cost clinics open during the evening to late evening - from 5:00 PM to 10:00 PM for intake with operations done during the morning and animal pick up in the next evening, same hours as intake, and regular hours on weekends, Saturday and Sunday during the day. At least something more logical than rushing around at 6:00 AM to get the cat to the clinic, the kids to school or daycare and the adult to work. Then reversing it to pick up the kid at daycare or school, and the adult to the clinic before it closes to get the cat. The technology is available but the intelligence and sense to use it seems to be lacking in people we put in positions of authority. Shelters have become big business. Even prisons are becoming big business. So the fact that more and more illogical laws are passed putting people behind bars doesn't bother our government because it's good for business. Having too many kids is big business because it sells more diapers, more toys, more kids clothes, more cribs, etc.. Even being sick is big business so hospitals are allowed to raise rates, more tests than are needed are done. More animals are killed testing new drugs that could be tested in half the time using upgraded technology. Sigh. I need to get off this Soap Box and go clean the litter boxes. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Yes, per Gavin Nicols' comment on http://www.no-killnews.com/?p=3935 San Antonio is nowhere near No Kill (90%+), even if they considered FIV+/Felv+ cats healthy, which you indicate they don't: ``For 2012 Fiscal Year to Date, the healthy and treatable dogs and cats make up 76% of total intake (in 2011, healthy and treatable was 66% of total intake).'' This is an issue that needs to be discussed in the No Kill community. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
I know how devastated you must feel. Have they never offered an explanation for their actions. I just will not take a cat to a shelter, that is why I have 6 now. Did have 7 but lost Nitnoy to FELV this Monday. I have a good vet that does not say kill just because have FELV or FIV. He explains the possiblities and leaves the decision to you. Nitnoy was with me since 2008, not a long time , but at least she had a good life up till the last 4 days and she died in my arms, knowing she was loved. That is all we can do for them, love them, care for them and then let them go. It is worth the pain to know this. don't give up helping them, they repay you with tons of love and joy. --- Alev Durmus wrote: Dear all, I feel for all of you who lost your cat(s). I have lost one too many and I can't bring myself to think losing another one. I would like to share something with you all and ask your opinions and advice since I am not originally from the US and I don't know how things go over here plus I might not be thinking straight because I am very upset. This happened on Saturday and I have been crying since... I came across to this cat-we named her River-less than 2 weeks ago cross the road from my home in an unused shed. I usually don't look around but for some reason, I looked towards the shed and there she was looking at me...She was not moving a lot, sickly and skinny. I started feeding her, she ate a lot and became more energetic in 2 days. She had started wandering around since she wasn't starving anymore and I became afraid of coyotes killing her or cold weather coming soon. I called the local no-kill shelter to ask what to do. They told me to take pictures and uploaded on their facebook page in order to locate her owners. She definitely had owners once and probably was dumped...She was a very loving sweet cat. I suspected, being a house cat she didn't know what to do to feed herself and that's why she was in that shape. After a while she was so great, even if she was not in the shed, she would come running when I called her. A few days later shelter called and said they had an opening for her. This was a good timing because of freeze warning coming to our way. I already have another cat and I didn't want to bring her home without knowing that she is healthy...We-me and the kids-were so happy to bring her to safety. They asked me to sign a form saying that I gave all her rights to the shelter. I was puzzled but knowing that it was a no-kill shelter I was not that concerned. I put a note saying that I was not the owner and she probably had an owner...I asked a lot of questions, when would we know about her health, how can we adopt her, can I visit her etc.? I told them we were planning to adopt her but my husband needed to be convinced...They told me the vet would be coming on Thursday and the blood test would be back and she would be in pet finder after a while. They said no to visitation and no to adopting her right from the shelter...I said what if someone adopts her before we see the ad, please call me etc...And then we left. I didn't know that I brought her to her death by my hands thinking I was doing the right thing... I called them Saturday and they informed me that they put her to sleep on Friday because she had FeLV+...I said why didn't you call? no answer...Between killing an animal and making a phone call they picked killing her. After I read online that there are many false positive on this test ( I don;t think anyone bothered to do the second test) and even if she was positive she could be living a long life in a one-cat household...I can't believe any animal lover would be that quick to kill one without exploring other options or calling someone-me- who showed extreme interest on saving this cat...Please anyone let me know if this is what they do in the shelters? Is there anything we can do to change their policy? She even gave me a line of oh, you did such a good job taking care of her, she would have died if not for you No one ever mentioned me killing the cat-never...If they did I wouldn't leave River there. Please drop me a few lines, I am still crying and I think I owe this to River to at least question their actions...I can't even look over the shed which is cross the road from my home-impossible to avoid and couldn't even tell the kids what happened... Thank you for all your help, Alev From: ter...@tazzys.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:22 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Nitnoy and felv BTW...would like to add this nasty tumor grew so fast within one month before Taz passed. So we were pressed for time and had to do whatever it would take. TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTS/SIAMESE COLLIE RESCUE Sultan, WA. 98294 Terrie Mohr-Forker http://tazzys.org/ Non-Profit national rescue Dedicated to the welfare of animals. Copyright © 1999-2012 tazzys.org. All
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Where are you? Just be careful about anything that resembles mandatory spay/neuter laws, as they apparently are counterproductive, and may be in this case, too. See: https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=152006964816562 or Google ryan clinton mandatory spay neuter Here in L.A., pound intakes went down in when they implemented low-cost s/n (in 1971), but not when they implemented MSN a couple of years ago. Also, seems any kind of sterilization should suffice, not just spay/neuter, especially in light of this study: http://www.gpmcf.org/respectovaries.html Seems if you have an Felv+ female cat who's lifespan is already in danger of being shortened, then you'd want to keep anything (i.e., ovaries) that could lengthen it. On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: I just looked up the stats for 2011 for Animal Care Services, our city run shelter. Well, they are better than 10 years ago when ACS was killing over 50,000 a year, with the breakdown of 18,000+ cats and the rest dogs. So we can be called a less kill city. But far from anything logical. In 2011 they killed 21,822 of which 6,813 were cats. This year's funding (2012) is about $9.3 million wasted dollars. The sad thing is that we could be no-kill in about a year, maybe 2 at the most with the proper advertising and expenditure of funds. Right now TNR is allowed but it is not funded by the City. Right now we have a grant from Best Friends for free and low cost spay/neuter, but only in certain zip codes. What would be needed is about a dozen mobile clinics to be circulating in all the neighborhoods at all times, a mass teaching effort to have people trap and bring feral cats and owned dogs to the clinic for FREE spay and neuter operations. An ordinance requiring apartment building owners and duplex owners to write into the leases of the tenants a spay/neuter clause that no one gets to rent an apartment if their pet is not spayed/neutered and proof shown to the manager/owner. A whole lot of stray cats and dogs come from tenants who abandon their pets when they move to another apartment or whose pets go outside and get lost and pregnant. If they abandon a spayed/neutered pet, that's only one animal put out. If the animal isn't fixed, it's dozens of future animals born from that one animal. This is a REAL problem and leads management to call Animal Control to clean up the mess and kill the animals. Meanwhile feeders are trying to do TNR under the radar because management hasn't gotten educated that TNR actually helps the problem not increases it. Since most people work outside of their home or during set hours of day, it would make more sense to have the free and low cost clinics open during the evening to late evening - from 5:00 PM to 10:00 PM for intake with operations done during the morning and animal pick up in the next evening, same hours as intake, and regular hours on weekends, Saturday and Sunday during the day. At least something more logical than rushing around at 6:00 AM to get the cat to the clinic, the kids to school or daycare and the adult to work. Then reversing it to pick up the kid at daycare or school, and the adult to the clinic before it closes to get the cat. The technology is available but the intelligence and sense to use it seems to be lacking in people we put in positions of authority. Shelters have become big business. Even prisons are becoming big business. So the fact that more and more illogical laws are passed putting people behind bars doesn't bother our government because it's good for business. Having too many kids is big business because it sells more diapers, more toys, more kids clothes, more cribs, etc.. Even being sick is big business so hospitals are allowed to raise rates, more tests than are needed are done. More animals are killed testing new drugs that could be tested in half the time using upgraded technology. Sigh. I need to get off this Soap Box and go clean the litter boxes. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! -- *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Wednesday, October 17, 2012 10:13 AM *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Yes, per Gavin Nicols' comment on http://www.no-killnews.com/?p=3935 San Antonio is nowhere near No Kill (90%+), even if they considered FIV+/Felv+ cats healthy, which you indicate they don't: ``For 2012 Fiscal Year to Date, the healthy and treatable dogs and cats make up 76% of total intake (in 2011, healthy and treatable was 66% of total intake).'' This is an issue that needs to be discussed in the No Kill community. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
I do not trust shelters anymore so I keep my posiives. My vet said if I vaccinate the negatives, there should be no problem and so far, I have had none. they all live in the whole house, eat out of the other's bowl because it must be better than mine. I do my best to keep the stress level down and when there is the least different behavior, off to the vet we go. Beth wrote: Alev - I'm so sorry you had this experience. Unfortunately many no-kill shelters are really not totally no-kill - they do euthanize for FeLV FIV, usually because they have no place to house/foster the positive cats. It is routine for shelters to make you sign all rights over to them. It usually will say in that ppw that they euthanize for FeLV FIV. It is also normal for you to have to go through the same adoption process as anyone else even if you were the one surrendering the animal. It is crazy, though, that they would not call you give you the chance to take the cat back or permanently foster her. However, their reasoning might have been that the cat had been outside they were afraid you may re-release her with a contagious virus. I had this happen with an FIV+ cat when I 1st moved into my neighborhood. I found the cat he was injured. I already had 5 cats could not take another, so I took him to a local emergency vet that had an injured stray program. They took in donations for injured strays then adopted them out. When I called back to find out how he was they said he tested positive for FIV they were going to euthanize him. I begged them to give me time to find someone to take him - I had a friend with an FIV+ cat. Unfortunately she could not take him. So I called the vet said I would take him back. They then said NO - They could not trust that I would not let him outside again he was contagious. I pleaded with them to wait for my vet's office to open the next day have her vouch for me (they knew my vet well). She did I was able to pick him up. He lived 10 healthy years with me. BTW our shelter does NOT euthanize for FeLV or FIV. I foster FeLV cats for them we actually rent a house for the FIV cats to live in. You can see the FIV cat's FB page here: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Furkids-FIV-House/217196318335990?ref=tsfref=ts Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: Alev Durmus To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Dear all, I feel for all of you who lost your cat(s). I have lost one too many and I can't bring myself to think losing another one. I would like to share something with you all and ask your opinions and advice since I am not originally from the US and I don't know how things go over here plus I might not be thinking straight because I am very upset. This happened on Saturday and I have been crying since... I came across to this cat-we named her River-less than 2 weeks ago cross the road from my home in an unused shed. I usually don't look around but for some reason, I looked towards the shed and there she was looking at me...She was not moving a lot, sickly and skinny. I started feeding her, she ate a lot and became more energetic in 2 days. She had started wandering around since she wasn't starving anymore and I became afraid of coyotes killing her or cold weather coming soon. I called the local no-kill shelter to ask what to do. They told me to take pictures and uploaded on their facebook page in order to locate her owners. She definitely had owners once and probably was dumped...She was a very loving sweet cat. I suspected, being a house cat she didn't know what to do to feed herself and that's why she was in that shape. After a while she was so great, even if she was not in the shed, she would come running when I called her. A few days later shelter called and said they had an opening for her. This was a good timing because of freeze warning coming to our way. I already have another cat and I didn't want to bring her home without knowing that she is healthy...We-me and the kids-were so happy to bring her to safety. They asked me to sign a form saying that I gave all her rights to the shelter. I was puzzled but knowing that it was a no-kill shelter I was not that concerned. I put a note saying that I was not the owner and she probably had an owner...I asked a lot of questions, when would we know about her health, how can we adopt her, can I visit her etc.? I told them we were planning to adopt her but my husband needed to be convinced...They told me the vet would be coming on Thursday and the blood test would be back and she would be in pet finder after a while. They said no to visitation and no to adopting her right from the shelter...I said what if someone adopts her before we see the ad, please call me etc...And then we left. I didn't know that I brought her to her death by
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Kathryn Hargreaves wrote: What pound was this? That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it. Of course, I think they should test, and still not kill for it. These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Since they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list compiler's standards. There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations. The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of Information Act). If you're lucky, they post them on their website. Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately. See the bottom of my messages for how to change this. Fortunately, now that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill shelters. All it will take is time. Hopefully, in my lifetime.On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 7:15 AM, Alev Durmus wrote:Dear all, I feel for all of you who lost your cat(s). I have lost one too many and I can't bring myself to think losing another one. I would like to share something with you all and ask your opinions and advice since I am not originally from the US and I don't know how things go over here plus I might not be thinking straight because I am very upset. This happened on Saturday and I have been crying since... I came across to this cat-we named her River-less than 2 weeks ago cross the road from my home in an unused shed. I usually don't look around but for some reason, I looked towards the shed and there she was looking at me...She was not moving a lot, sickly and skinny. I started feeding her, she ate a lot and became more energetic in 2 days. She had started wandering around since she wasn't starving anymore and I became afraid of coyotes killing her or cold weather coming soon. I called the local no-kill shelter to ask what to do. They told me to take pictures and uploaded on their facebook page in order to locate her owners. She definitely had owners once and probably was dumped...She was a very loving sweet cat. I suspected, being a house cat she didn't know what to do to feed herself and that's why she was in that shape. After a while she was so great, even if she was not in the shed, she would come running when I called her. A few days later shelter called and said they had an opening for her. This was a good timing because of freeze warning coming to our way. I already have another cat and I didn't want to bring her home without knowing that she is healthy...We-me and the kids-were so happy to bring her to safety. They asked me to sign a form saying that I gave all her rights to the shelter. I was puzzled but knowing that it was a no-kill shelter I was not that concerned. I put a note saying that I was not the owner and she probably had an owner...I asked a lot of questions, when would we know about her health, how can we adopt her, can I visit her etc.? I told them we were planning to adopt her but my husband needed to be convinced...They told me the vet would be coming on Thursday and the blood test would be back and she would be in pet finder after a while. They said no to visitation and no to adopting her right from the shelter...I said what if someone adopts her before we see the ad, please call me etc...And then we left. I didn't know that I brought her to her death by my hands thinking I was doing the right thing... I called them Saturday and they informed me that they put her to sleep on Friday because she had FeLV+...I said why didn't you call? no answer...Between killing an animal and making a phone call they picked killing her. After I read online that there are many false positive on this test ( I don;t think anyone bothered to do the second test) and even if she was positive she could be living a long life in a one-cat household...I can't believe any animal lover would be that quick to kill one without exploring other options or calling someone-me- who showed extreme interest on saving this cat...Please anyone let me know if this is what they do in the shelters? Is there anything we can do to change their policy? She even gave me a line of oh, you did such a good job taking care of her, she would have died if not for you No one ever mentioned me killing the cat-never...If they did I wouldn't leave River there. Please drop me a few lines, I am still crying and I think I owe this to River to at least question their actions...I can't even look over the shed which is cross the
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
I this what you wrote? ``In my area they ahve an animal control for dogs, cats are just shot.'' According to Alley Cat Allies, it's illegal throughout the U.S. to shoot cats. Maybe that only applies to citizens. On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 1:21 PM, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: Kathryn Hargreaves wrote: What pound was this? That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it. Of course, I think they should test, and still not kill for it. These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Since they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list compiler's standards. There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations. The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of Information Act). If you're lucky, they post them on their website. Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately. See the bottom of my messages for how to change this. Fortunately, now that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill shelters. All it will take is time. Hopefully, in my lifetime.On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 7:15 AM, Alev Durmus wrote:Dear all, I feel for all of you who lost your cat(s). I have lost one too many and I can't bring myself to think losing another one. I would like to share something with you all and ask your opinions and advice since I am not originally from the US and I don't know how things go over here plus I might not be thinking straight because I am very upset. This happened on Saturday and I have been crying since... I came across to this cat-we named her River-less than 2 weeks ago cross the road from my home in an unused shed. I usually don't look around but for some reason, I looked towards the shed and there she was looking at me...She was not moving a lot, sickly and skinny. I started feeding her, she ate a lot and became more energetic in 2 days. She had started wandering around since she wasn't starving anymore and I became afraid of coyotes killing her or cold weather coming soon. I called the local no-kill shelter to ask what to do. They told me to take pictures and uploaded on their facebook page in order to locate her owners. She definitely had owners once and probably was dumped...She was a very loving sweet cat. I suspected, being a house cat she didn't know what to do to feed herself and that's why she was in that shape. After a while she was so great, even if she was not in the shed, she would come running when I called her. A few days later shelter called and said they had an opening for her. This was a good timing because of freeze warning coming to our way. I already have another cat and I didn't want to bring her home without knowing that she is healthy...We-me and the kids-were so happy to bring her to safety. They asked me to sign a form saying that I gave all her rights to the shelter. I was puzzled but knowing that it was a no-kill shelter I was not that concerned. I put a note saying that I was not the owner and she probably had an owner...I asked a lot of questions, when would we know about her health, how can we adopt her, can I visit her etc.? I told them we were planning to adopt her but my husband needed to be convinced...They told me the vet would be coming on Thursday and the blood test would be back and she would be in pet finder after a while. They said no to visitation and no to adopting her right from the shelter...I said what if someone adopts her before we see the ad, please call me etc...And then we left. I didn't know that I brought her to her death by my hands thinking I was doing the right thing... I called them Saturday and they informed me that they put her to sleep on Friday because she had FeLV+...I said why didn't you call? no answer...Between killing an animal and making a phone call they picked killing her. After I read online that there are many false positive on this test ( I don;t think anyone bothered to do the second test) and even if she was positive she could be living a long life in a one-cat household...I can't believe any animal lover would be that quick to kill one without exploring other options or calling someone-me- who showed extreme interest on saving this cat...Please anyone let me know if this is what they do in the shelters? Is there anything we can do to change their policy? She even gave me a line of oh, you did such a good job taking care of her, she would have died if
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Yes, per Gavin Nicols' comment on http://www.no-killnews.com/?p=3935 San Antonio is nowhere near No Kill (90%+), even if they considered FIV+/Felv+ cats healthy, which you indicate they don't: ``For 2012 Fiscal Year to Date, the healthy and treatable dogs and cats make up 76% of total intake (in 2011, healthy and treatable was 66% of total intake).'' This is an issue that needs to be discussed in the No Kill community. On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: Beth, How wonderful you are. I had a similar but happier experience. I was known in my city as a rescuer and am on the Board of an animal rights organization. However, I surrendered many cats to the Humane Society, a supposedly no-kill shelter in San Antonio, Tx. Whenever I filled out the surrender form, I always added that the cat must be returned to me for any reason at any time, whether it was FIV or FeLv or some other situation that made the cat unadoptable. I put it all over the form, told the intake people and they agreed. I knew that they killed FIV+ and FeLv+ cats without asking questions. Most people don't realize this or just don't care as long as they can tell themselves that they did their best for the cat. In addition, the HS allows anyone to visit with the cats in visitation rooms, small cubicles with cat toys where the cats can be handled and potential adopters can get to know them. This shelter is better than most because their intake form does have a place to state that the people surrendering the cat can have him/her back in case of something that makes the cat unadoptable. Anyway, one evening the supervising intake person called me. She was near tears. I hadn't surrendered any cats so I wondered what was wrong. She said that they had gotten in two young, gorgeous cats who had tested FIV+ and she was ordered to have them euthanized the next day. She asked me if I would foster, since she knew I did not euthanize FIV+ cats. I had none at the time, but I had about 20 other cats. So I told her that if she took the two cats who were occupying my spare room at that time and who tested negative for everything, were already fixed and had their rabies shots I would take the FIV+ cats. The exchange was made before the shelter opened the next day. This was entirely against the rules but no one complained. I got Sugar Plum Fairy, a lovely blue-eyed white cat who was NOT deaf and Sir Walter, a husky, healthy tabby and white boy. Both were fixed and had their rabies shots. That was about 7 years ago. I named the white one Sugar Plum Fairy and the tabby and white Sir Walter because he looked regal. Sugar Plum Fairy is still with me along with 4 other FIV+ cats who live in separate quarters from my main group. Sir Walter passed a month ago from kidney cancer. Up until a month before he passed, he was a happy, overweight puss with an attitude. Sugar is fine because she has other companions. I also have two FIV+ cats mixed in with my main group because they are lay back non-fighters who get along with everyone. No kill shelters are becoming much more aware that FIV and FeLv do not have to be a death sentence for cats surrendered to them. It's so awful that Alev had such a painful experience. This used to be the norm in this country but things are slowly changing. We always have to speak up for the cats and make sure that we have an understanding when we surrender one to a shelter that they will return the cat if anything is wrong. Get it in writing and call frequently, visit frequently if you can to see how your cat is doing. The two who were exchanged for Sugar and Wally got adopted within two weeks of arriving at the shelter. FIV is not contagious unless the cats get into a major biting and fighting situation. Most FIV+ cats who are neutered do not bite and fight since this is behavior during mating season. However, the five cats I have in my special FIV section exhibited some left over hostility tendencies from their pre-neuter days. That's why they are separate from my main group. The two who are mixed in never exhibited even a hiss at anyone. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Alev - I'm so sorry you had this experience. Unfortunately many no-kill shelters are really not totally no-kill - they do euthanize for FeLV FIV, usually because they have no place to house/foster the positive cats. It is routine for shelters to make you sign all rights over to them. It usually will say in that ppw that they euthanize for FeLV FIV. It is also normal for you to have to go through the same adoption process as anyone else even if you were the one surrendering the animal. It is crazy, though, that they would not call you give you the chance to take the cat back or permanently foster her. However, their reasoning might have been that the cat had been outside they were afraid you may re-release her with a contagious virus. I had this happen with an FIV+ cat when I 1st moved into my neighborhood. I found the cat he was injured. I already had 5 cats could not take another, so I took him to a local emergency vet that had an injured stray program. They took in donations for injured strays then adopted them out. When I called back to find out how he was they said he tested positive for FIV they were going to euthanize him. I begged them to give me time to find someone to take him - I had a friend with an FIV+ cat. Unfortunately she could not take him. So I called the vet said I would take him back. They then said NO - They could not trust that I would not let him outside again he was contagious. I pleaded with them to wait for my vet's office to open the next day have her vouch for me (they knew my vet well). She did I was able to pick him up. He lived 10 healthy years with me. BTW our shelter does NOT euthanize for FeLV or FIV. I foster FeLV cats for them we actually rent a house for the FIV cats to live in. You can see the FIV cat's FB page here: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Furkids-FIV-House/217196318335990?ref=tsfref=ts Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: Alev Durmus alev_dur...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM Subject: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Dear all, I feel for all of you who lost your cat(s). I have lost one too many and I can't bring myself to think losing another one. I would like to share something with you all and ask your opinions and advice since I am not originally from the US and I don't know how things go over here plus I might not be thinking straight because I am very upset. This happened on Saturday and I have been crying since... I came across to this cat-we named her River-less than 2 weeks ago cross the road from my home in an unused shed. I usually don't look around but for some reason, I looked towards the shed and there she was looking at me...She was not moving a lot, sickly and skinny. I started feeding her, she ate a lot and became more energetic in 2 days. She had started wandering around since she wasn't starving anymore and I became afraid of coyotes killing her or cold weather coming soon. I called the local no-kill shelter to ask what to do. They told me to take pictures and uploaded on their facebook page in order to locate her owners. She definitely had owners once and probably was dumped...She was a very loving sweet cat. I suspected, being a house cat she didn't know what to do to feed herself and that's why she was in that shape. After a while she was so great, even if she was not in the shed, she would come running when I called her. A few days later shelter called and said they had an opening for her. This was a good timing because of freeze warning coming to our way. I already have another cat and I didn't want to bring her home without knowing that she is healthy...We-me and the kids-were so happy to bring her to safety. They asked me to sign a form saying that I gave all her rights to the shelter. I was puzzled but knowing that it was a no-kill shelter I was not that concerned. I put a note saying that I was not the owner and she probably had an owner...I asked a lot of questions, when would we know about her health, how can we adopt her, can I visit her etc.? I told them we were planning to adopt her but my husband needed to be convinced...They told me the vet would be coming on Thursday and the blood test would be back and she would be in pet finder after a while. They said no to visitation and no to adopting her right from the shelter...I said what if someone adopts her before we see the ad, please call me etc...And then we left. I didn't know that I brought her to her death by my hands thinking I was doing the right thing... I called them Saturday and they informed me that they put her to sleep on Friday because she had FeLV+...I said why didn't you call? no answer...Between killing an animal and making a phone call they picked killing her. After I read online that there are many false positive on
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
What pound was this? That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it. Of course, I think they should test, and still not kill for it. These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Since they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list compiler's standards. There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations. The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of Information Act). If you're lucky, they post them on their website. Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately. See the bottom of my messages for how to change this. Fortunately, now that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill shelters. All it will take is time. Hopefully, in my lifetime. On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 7:15 AM, Alev Durmus alev_dur...@yahoo.com wrote: Dear all, I feel for all of you who lost your cat(s). I have lost one too many and I can't bring myself to think losing another one. I would like to share something with you all and ask your opinions and advice since I am not originally from the US and I don't know how things go over here plus I might not be thinking straight because I am very upset. This happened on Saturday and I have been crying since... I came across to this cat-we named her River-less than 2 weeks ago cross the road from my home in an unused shed. I usually don't look around but for some reason, I looked towards the shed and there she was looking at me...She was not moving a lot, sickly and skinny. I started feeding her, she ate a lot and became more energetic in 2 days. She had started wandering around since she wasn't starving anymore and I became afraid of coyotes killing her or cold weather coming soon. I called the local no-kill shelter to ask what to do. They told me to take pictures and uploaded on their facebook page in order to locate her owners. She definitely had owners once and probably was dumped...She was a very loving sweet cat. I suspected, being a house cat she didn't know what to do to feed herself and that's why she was in that shape. After a while she was so great, even if she was not in the shed, she would come running when I called her. A few days later shelter called and said they had an opening for her. This was a good timing because of freeze warning coming to our way. I already have another cat and I didn't want to bring her home without knowing that she is healthy...We-me and the kids-were so happy to bring her to safety. They asked me to sign a form saying that I gave all her rights to the shelter. I was puzzled but knowing that it was a no-kill shelter I was not that concerned. I put a note saying that I was not the owner and she probably had an owner...I asked a lot of questions, when would we know about her health, how can we adopt her, can I visit her etc.? I told them we were planning to adopt her but my husband needed to be convinced...They told me the vet would be coming on Thursday and the blood test would be back and she would be in pet finder after a while. They said no to visitation and no to adopting her right from the shelter...I said what if someone adopts her before we see the ad, please call me etc...And then we left. I didn't know that I brought her to her death by my hands thinking I was doing the right thing... I called them Saturday and they informed me that they put her to sleep on Friday because she had FeLV+...I said why didn't you call? no answer...Between killing an animal and making a phone call they picked killing her. After I read online that there are many false positive on this test ( I don;t think anyone bothered to do the second test) and even if she was positive she could be living a long life in a one-cat household...I can't believe any animal lover would be that quick to kill one without exploring other options or calling someone-me- who showed extreme interest on saving this cat...Please anyone let me know if this is what they do in the shelters? Is there anything we can do to change their policy? She even gave me a line of oh, you did such a good job taking care of her, she would have died if not for you No one ever mentioned me killing the cat-never...If they did I wouldn't leave River there. Please drop me a few lines, I am still crying and I think I owe this to River to at least question their actions...I can't even look over the shed which is cross the road from my home-impossible to avoid and couldn't even tell the kids what happened... Thank you for all your help, Alev
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill shelter. Pounds are usually owned by the local municipality. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Alev Durmus alev_dur...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat What pound was this? That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it. Of course, I think they should test, and still not kill for it. These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Since they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list compiler's standards. There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations. The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of Information Act). If you're lucky, they post them on their website. Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately. See the bottom of my messages for how to change this. Fortunately, now that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill shelters. All it will take is time. Hopefully, in my lifetime.___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
I (and others) use the term ``pound'' for all so-called ``shelters'' that are not truly No Kill (saving 90%+). On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill shelter. Pounds are usually owned by the local municipality. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org http://www.furkids.org/ -- *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Cc:* Alev Durmus alev_dur...@yahoo.com *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat What pound was this? That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it. Of course, I think they should test, and still not kill for it. These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Since they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list compiler's standards. There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations. The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of Information Act). If you're lucky, they post them on their website. Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately. See the bottom of my messages for how to change this. Fortunately, now that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill shelters. All it will take is time. Hopefully, in my lifetime. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
They may call themselves a shelter but killing the animals dragged them down to a level of a pound I would call them a death camp if you ask me... This shelter/pound I brought River is a charity organization I believe and works with donations. Alev From: Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill shelter. Pounds are usually owned by the local municipality. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Alev Durmus alev_dur...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat What pound was this? That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it. Of course, I think they should test, and still not kill for it. These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Since they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list compiler's standards. There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations. The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of Information Act). If you're lucky, they post them on their website. Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately. See the bottom of my messages for how to change this. Fortunately, now that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill shelters. All it will take is time. Hopefully, in my lifetime. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Yes, that term is bandied about, too. On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Alev Durmus alev_dur...@yahoo.com wrote: They may call themselves a shelter but killing the animals dragged them down to a level of a pound I would call them a death camp if you ask me... This shelter/pound I brought River is a charity organization I believe and works with donations. Alev -- *From:* Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:26 PM *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill shelter. Pounds are usually owned by the local municipality. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org http://www.furkids.org/ -- *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Cc:* Alev Durmus alev_dur...@yahoo.com *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat What pound was this? That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it. Of course, I think they should test, and still not kill for it. These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Since they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list compiler's standards. There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations. The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of Information Act). If you're lucky, they post them on their website. Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately. See the bottom of my messages for how to change this. Fortunately, now that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill shelters. All it will take is time. Hopefully, in my lifetime. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those for which they have cages! Outta space, outta luck. As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now No Kill. As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is looking for them. In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill communities list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the above someone's blog: Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.no-killnews.com/http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see the right sidebar) On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.comwrote: The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it means is they will not kill adoptable animals. Unfortunately, its up to the individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”. All too often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a healthy easily adoptable animals. These kinds of facilities never ever publish their euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they will kill. True no kills (as we think it means as defined by Nathan Winograd) are tough to find. I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans (ARNO) the handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill animals who were either comatose or in intractable pain. They never put down for fiv or felv! ** ** ** ** The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter why they wouldn’t have alerted you to the cat’s test results given you some time demonstrates an attitude that is unfortunately all too common. I’m so sorry this happened to you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t had in a very long time. ** ** *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Alev Durmus *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat ** ** ** ** ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
around here doesn't say where you are?? From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat I (and others) use the term ``pound'' for all so-called ``shelters'' that are not truly No Kill (saving 90%+). On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill shelter. Pounds are usually owned by the local municipality. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! http://www.furkids.org/ From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Alev Durmus alev_dur...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat What pound was this? That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it. Of course, I think they should test, and still not kill for it. These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Since they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list compiler's standards. There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations. The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of Information Act). If you're lucky, they post them on their website. Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately. See the bottom of my messages for how to change this. Fortunately, now that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill shelters. All it will take is time. Hopefully, in my lifetime. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Hi Christiane, Thank you so much...I am so sorry to find out about all these a little too late...Yes, they show kittens, young cats, but very few seniors on their website for adoption...They are a kill shelter and people do not know this. People are happily donating money thinking they are helping the animals, but they are helping them to be killed too. What can I do to change this? I want to send them an email, what should I say? I want to say the right things and not sound like a crazy woman... Thank you so much for your kind words, maybe River will be the reason that this shelter does something about their policy. You (and the animals in that area) are very lucky. Take care, Alev From: Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it means is they will not kill adoptable animals. Unfortunately, its up to the individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”. All too often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a healthy easily adoptable animals. These kinds of facilities never ever publish their euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they will kill. True no kills (as we think it means as defined by Nathan Winograd) are tough to find. I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans (ARNO) the handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill animals who were either comatose or in intractable pain. They never put down for fiv or felv! The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter why they wouldn’t have alerted you to the cat’s test results given you some time demonstrates an attitude that is unfortunately all too common. I’m so sorry this happened to you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t had in a very long time. From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Alev Durmus Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Los Angeles. Neither the city not the county pounds test. On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:11 AM, CATHERINE DIDONNA westnint...@yahoo.comwrote: around here doesn't say where you are?? *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:29 PM *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat I (and others) use the term ``pound'' for all so-called ``shelters'' that are not truly No Kill (saving 90%+). On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill shelter. Pounds are usually owned by the local municipality. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! http://www.furkids.org/ *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Cc:* Alev Durmus alev_dur...@yahoo.com *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat What pound was this? That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it. Of course, I think they should test, and still not kill for it. These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Since they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list compiler's standards. There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations. The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of Information Act). If you're lucky, they post them on their website. Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately. See the bottom of my messages for how to change this. Fortunately, now that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill shelters. All it will take is time. Hopefully, in my lifetime. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.no-killnews.com/http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see the right sidebar) Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Thank you Kathryn, I signed the Houston petition already...I hope you guys get enough people on time. I checked the list, it was not in it before. I will check the new one too. I am thinking to send them an email about what I think of them and send a FB messages to people around town to warn that this shelter is not no-kill I don't know what else I can do? Thank you so much to you all for all you support and info, really, sharing this with you made me cry more but better than holding in... Alev From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those for which they have cages! Outta space, outta luck. As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now No Kill. As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is looking for them. In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill communities list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the above someone's blog: Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see the right sidebar) On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.com wrote: The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it means is they will not kill adoptable animals. Unfortunately, its up to the individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”. All too often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a healthy easily adoptable animals. These kinds of facilities never ever publish their euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they will kill. True no kills (as we think it means as defined by Nathan Winograd) are tough to find. I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans (ARNO) the handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill animals who were either comatose or in intractable pain. They never put down for fiv or felv! The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter why they wouldn’t have alerted you to the cat’s test results given you some time demonstrates an attitude that is unfortunately all too common. I’m so sorry this happened to you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t had in a very long time. From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Alev Durmus Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Although that could be a good warning shot, they may just ignore you and not doing anything. The way to change things is to go to, say, the city council, or whomever hired them, and tell them you do not like what this pound is doing. Whatever you do, act professional. Dress professionally and tell them calmly you are a constituent who is concerned about what is going on. On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Alev Durmus alev_dur...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Christiane, Thank you so much...I am so sorry to find out about all these a little too late...Yes, they show kittens, young cats, but very few seniors on their website for adoption...They are a kill shelter and people do not know this. People are happily donating money thinking they are helping the animals, but they are helping them to be killed too. What can I do to change this? I want to send them an email, what should I say? I want to say the right things and not sound like a crazy woman... Thank you so much for your kind words, maybe River will be the reason that this shelter does something about their policy. You (and the animals in that area) are very lucky. Take care, Alev -- *From:* Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.com *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM *Subject:* [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it means is they will not kill adoptable animals. Unfortunately, its up to the individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”. All too often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a healthy easily adoptable animals. These kinds of facilities never ever publish their euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they will kill. True no kills (as we think it means as defined by Nathan Winograd) are tough to find. I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans (ARNO) the handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill animals who were either comatose or in intractable pain. They never put down for fiv or felv! The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter why they wouldn’t have alerted you to the cat’s test results given you some time demonstrates an attitude that is unfortunately all too common. I’m so sorry this happened to you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t had in a very long time. *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Alev Durmus *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.no-killnews.com/http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see the right sidebar) Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Alev, are you in Houston, TX. What shelter was this? Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:17:14 -0700 From: alev_dur...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Thank you Kathryn, I signed the Houston petition already...I hope you guys get enough people on time. I checked the list, it was not in it before. I will check the new one too. I am thinking to send them an email about what I think of them and send a FB messages to people around town to warn that this shelter is not no-kill I don't know what else I can do? Thank you so much to you all for all you support and info, really, sharing this with you made me cry more but better than holding in... Alev From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those for which they have cages! Outta space, outta luck. As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now No Kill. As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is looking for them. In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill communities list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the above someone's blog: Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see the right sidebar) On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.com wrote: The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it means is they will not kill adoptable animals. Unfortunately, its up to the individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”. All too often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a healthy easily adoptable animals. These kinds of facilities never ever publish their euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they will kill. True no kills (as we think it means as defined by Nathan Winograd) are tough to find. I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans (ARNO) the handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill animals who were either comatose or in intractable pain. They never put down for fiv or felv! The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter why they wouldn’t have alerted you to the cat’s test results given you some time demonstrates an attitude that is unfortunately all too common. I’m so sorry this happened to you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t had in a very long time. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Alev Durmus Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
I've never heard of a true shelter not testing for FIV or FeLV. That sounds more like an animal control facility. The Dept of Agriculture wouldn't let us adopt out animals unless we had tested them. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: CATHERINE DIDONNA westnint...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat around here doesn't say where you are?? From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat I (and others) use the term ``pound'' for all so-called ``shelters'' that are not truly No Kill (saving 90%+). On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill shelter. Pounds are usually owned by the local municipality. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! http://www.furkids.org/ From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Alev Durmus alev_dur...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat What pound was this? That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it. Of course, I think they should test, and still not kill for it. These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Since they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list compiler's standards. There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations. The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of Information Act). If you're lucky, they post them on their website. Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately. See the bottom of my messages for how to change this. Fortunately, now that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill shelters. All it will take is time. Hopefully, in my lifetime. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
These all look like Animal Control Facilities. Our shelter is definitely no-kill we are not on there. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those for which they have cages! Outta space, outta luck. As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now No Kill. As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is looking for them. In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill communities list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the above someone's blog: Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see the right sidebar) On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.com wrote: The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it means is they will not kill adoptable animals. Unfortunately, its up to the individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”. All too often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a healthy easily adoptable animals. These kinds of facilities never ever publish their euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they will kill. True no kills (as we think it means as defined by Nathan Winograd) are tough to find. I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans (ARNO) the handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill animals who were either comatose or in intractable pain. They never put down for fiv or felv! The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter why they wouldn’t have alerted you to the cat’s test results given you some time demonstrates an attitude that is unfortunately all too common. I’m so sorry this happened to you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t had in a very long time. From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Alev Durmus Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Most of the pounds (what we refer to as animal control facilites) here do not test, either. But there are plenty of taxempt charitable shelters, some of them are truly no-kill. We go above beyond what most other shelters do. We have to test make sure the animals are fixed vaccinated before being adopted. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Los Angeles. Neither the city not the county pounds test. On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:11 AM, CATHERINE DIDONNA westnint...@yahoo.com wrote: around here doesn't say where you are?? From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat I (and others) use the term ``pound'' for all so-called ``shelters'' that are not truly No Kill (saving 90%+). On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: According to her email it wasn't a pound, it was a so-called no-kill shelter. Pounds are usually owned by the local municipality. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! http://www.furkids.org/ From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Alev Durmus alev_dur...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat What pound was this? That's one of the only good things about the pounds around here is that they don't test for FIV/Felv, so then they don't kill for it. Of course, I think they should test, and still not kill for it. These are the open-admission No Kill (saving 90%+) shelters in the U.S.: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Since they made you wait for an opening, they are not open-admission by that list compiler's standards. There are many so-called no-kill (note the lowercase letters) ``shelters'' that are not open-admission, and many say they are no-kill even if they do kill, presumably to get donations. The only way you can absolutely tell if a pound is a No Kill shelter is to somehow get their intake/transfer/kill stats---sometimes via FOIA (Freedom of Information Act). If you're lucky, they post them on their website. Most pounds in this country are just killing machines, unfortunately. See the bottom of my messages for how to change this. Fortunately, now that people know it can be done, they are demanding their pounds become No Kill shelters. All it will take is time. Hopefully, in my lifetime. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar) Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Hi Edna, No, I am in MA. thank you, Sent from my iPhone On Oct 16, 2012, at 2:39 PM, Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com wrote: Alev, are you in Houston, TX. What shelter was this? Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:17:14 -0700 From: alev_dur...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Thank you Kathryn, I signed the Houston petition already...I hope you guys get enough people on time. I checked the list, it was not in it before. I will check the new one too. I am thinking to send them an email about what I think of them and send a FB messages to people around town to warn that this shelter is not no-kill I don't know what else I can do? Thank you so much to you all for all you support and info, really, sharing this with you made me cry more but better than holding in... Alev From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those for which they have cages! Outta space, outta luck. As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now No Kill. As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is looking for them. In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill communities list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the above someone's blog: Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see the right sidebar) On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.com wrote: The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it means is they will not kill adoptable animals. Unfortunately, its up to the individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”. All too often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a healthy easily adoptable animals. These kinds of facilities never ever publish their euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they will kill. True no kills (as we think it means as defined by Nathan Winograd) are tough to find. I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans (ARNO) the handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill animals who were either comatose or in intractable pain. They never put down for fiv or felv! The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter why they wouldn’t have alerted you to the cat’s test results given you some time demonstrates an attitude that is unfortunately all too common. I’m so sorry this happened to you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t had in a very long time. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Alev Durmus Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Sorry, Gmail messed up my link (says one thing and goes somewhere else)! Here it is, all fixed up: Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar) If your shelter meets the criteria on http://www.no-killnews.com/?page_id=8 and is not in this list, then alert the blog author. She's trying to find No Kill communities as fast as she can, and it helps her if you tell her. You can subscribe to the email alerts (form in the left sidebar), and then email her your information. (This goes for everyone, not just Beth.) The more shelters we know about, the more we can convince/force kill shelters to change their ways. On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:55 AM, Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: These all look like Animal Control Facilities. Our shelter is definitely no-kill we are not on there. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org http://www.furkids.org/ -- *From:* Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:07 PM *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those for which they have cages! Outta space, outta luck. As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now No Kill. As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is looking for them. In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill communities list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the above someone's blog: Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see the right sidebar) -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.no-killnews.com/ (see the right sidebar) Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Oh, I saw where you said you signed the Houston petition which is why I thought you were here. From: alev_dur...@yahoo.com Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 15:40:28 -0400 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Hi Edna, No, I am in MA. thank you, Sent from my iPhone On Oct 16, 2012, at 2:39 PM, Edna Taylor taylore...@msn.com wrote: Alev, are you in Houston, TX. What shelter was this? Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:17:14 -0700 From: alev_dur...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Thank you Kathryn, I signed the Houston petition already...I hope you guys get enough people on time. I checked the list, it was not in it before. I will check the new one too. I am thinking to send them an email about what I think of them and send a FB messages to people around town to warn that this shelter is not no-kill I don't know what else I can do? Thank you so much to you all for all you support and info, really, sharing this with you made me cry more but better than holding in... Alev From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Yes, and some have even gone so far as to define ``adoptable'' as those for which they have cages! Outta space, outta luck. As Christine probably knows, there are over 200 cities/towns that are now No Kill. As for No Kill places being hard to find, at least someone is looking for them. In fact, I just realized that my link to the No Kill communities list is outdated and should be replaced with this, which is the above someone's blog: Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ (see the right sidebar) On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.com wrote: The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it means is they will not kill adoptable animals. Unfortunately, its up to the individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”. All too often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a healthy easily adoptable animals. These kinds of facilities never ever publish their euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they will kill. True no kills (as we think it means as defined by Nathan Winograd) are tough to find. I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans (ARNO) the handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill animals who were either comatose or in intractable pain. They never put down for fiv or felv! The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter why they wouldn’t have alerted you to the cat’s test results given you some time demonstrates an attitude that is unfortunately all too common. I’m so sorry this happened to you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t had in a very long time. From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Alev Durmus Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life. Contact your local pound for information. If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities: http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/ More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially http://vimeo.com/48445902 Local feral cat crisis? See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Alev, I am so sorry this has happened to you and River. River is a beautiful name, btw, and one I gave to a rescue cat we took in recently. I don't know what else to say other than I am hoping you someday find peace with what has happened knowing your intentions were only the best, and you only wanted to help her. Some of these types of shelters have come a long way, but still have a long way to go. They can be ignorant and misinformed and how could you have known this? Best to you, Janine From: Alev Durmus alev_dur...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, October 16, 2012 1:12:13 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Hi Christiane, Thank you so much...I am so sorry to find out about all these a little too late...Yes, they show kittens, young cats, but very few seniors on their website for adoption...They are a kill shelter and people do not know this. People are happily donating money thinking they are helping the animals, but they are helping them to be killed too. What can I do to change this? I want to send them an email, what should I say? I want to say the right things and not sound like a crazy woman... Thank you so much for your kind words, maybe River will be the reason that this shelter does something about their policy. You (and the animals in that area) are very lucky. Take care, Alev From: Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat The caveat to the “no kill” (as defined in the Asilomar Accords) is that all it means is they will not kill adoptable animals. Unfortunately, its up to the individual shelter/rescue to define what they consider “adoptable”. All too often, facilities that advertise themselves as “no kill” really mean that they will kill all ill, senior, problem behavior, etc. animals but never kill a healthy easily adoptable animals. These kinds of facilities never ever publish their euthanasia matrix” which is where they define their policy on who they will kill. True no kills (as we think it means as defined by Nathan Winograd) are tough to find. I volunteer for one such shelter in New Orleans (ARNO) the handful of animals they’ve put down have been terminally ill animals who were either comatose or in intractable pain. They never put down for fiv or felv! The shelter you cited clearly is a kill shelter why they wouldn’t have alerted you to the cat’s test results given you some time demonstrates an attitude that is unfortunately all too common. I’m so sorry this happened to you but please know that River had love from you—something she likely hadn’t had in a very long time. From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Alev Durmus Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:15 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat
Beth, How wonderful you are. I had a similar but happier experience. I was known in my city as a rescuer and am on the Board of an animal rights organization. However, I surrendered many cats to the Humane Society, a supposedly no-kill shelter in San Antonio, Tx. Whenever I filled out the surrender form, I always added that the cat must be returned to me for any reason at any time, whether it was FIV or FeLv or some other situation that made the cat unadoptable. I put it all over the form, told the intake people and they agreed. I knew that they killed FIV+ and FeLv+ cats without asking questions. Most people don't realize this or just don't care as long as they can tell themselves that they did their best for the cat. In addition, the HS allows anyone to visit with the cats in visitation rooms, small cubicles with cat toys where the cats can be handled and potential adopters can get to know them. This shelter is better than most because their intake form does have a place to state that the people surrendering the cat can have him/her back in case of something that makes the cat unadoptable. Anyway, one evening the supervising intake person called me. She was near tears. I hadn't surrendered any cats so I wondered what was wrong. She said that they had gotten in two young, gorgeous cats who had tested FIV+ and she was ordered to have them euthanized the next day. She asked me if I would foster, since she knew I did not euthanize FIV+ cats. I had none at the time, but I had about 20 other cats. So I told her that if she took the two cats who were occupying my spare room at that time and who tested negative for everything, were already fixed and had their rabies shots I would take the FIV+ cats. The exchange was made before the shelter opened the next day. This was entirely against the rules but no one complained. I got Sugar Plum Fairy, a lovely blue-eyed white cat who was NOT deaf and Sir Walter, a husky, healthy tabby and white boy. Both were fixed and had their rabies shots. That was about 7 years ago. I named the white one Sugar Plum Fairy and the tabby and white Sir Walter because he looked regal. Sugar Plum Fairy is still with me along with 4 other FIV+ cats who live in separate quarters from my main group. Sir Walter passed a month ago from kidney cancer. Up until a month before he passed, he was a happy, overweight puss with an attitude. Sugar is fine because she has other companions. I also have two FIV+ cats mixed in with my main group because they are lay back non-fighters who get along with everyone. No kill shelters are becoming much more aware that FIV and FeLv do not have to be a death sentence for cats surrendered to them. It's so awful that Alev had such a painful experience. This used to be the norm in this country but things are slowly changing. We always have to speak up for the cats and make sure that we have an understanding when we surrender one to a shelter that they will return the cat if anything is wrong. Get it in writing and call frequently, visit frequently if you can to see how your cat is doing. The two who were exchanged for Sugar and Wally got adopted within two weeks of arriving at the shelter. FIV is not contagious unless the cats get into a major biting and fighting situation. Most FIV+ cats who are neutered do not bite and fight since this is behavior during mating season. However, the five cats I have in my special FIV section exhibited some left over hostility tendencies from their pre-neuter days. That's why they are separate from my main group. The two who are mixed in never exhibited even a hiss at anyone. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! From: Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com To: FeLV Talk Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] No-kill animal shelter killing FeLV+ cat Alev - I'm so sorry you had this experience. Unfortunately many no-kill shelters are really not totally no-kill - they do euthanize for FeLV FIV, usually because they have no place to house/foster the positive cats. It is routine for shelters to make you sign all rights over to them. It usually will say in that ppw that they euthanize for FeLV FIV. It is also normal for you to have to go through the same adoption process as anyone else even if you were the one surrendering the animal. It is crazy, though, that they would not call you give you the chance to take the cat back or permanently foster her. However, their reasoning might have been that the cat had been outside they were afraid you may re-release her with a contagious virus. I had this happen with an FIV+ cat when I 1st moved into my neighborhood. I found the cat he was injured. I already had 5 cats could not take another, so I took him to a local emergency vet that had an injured stray
