timothy.price wrote:
On Mar 14, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
reversing the mouthpiece *definitely*
does.
As radical an idea as actual experimentation may be, I tried it on my
trumpet, and by gosh, you get a much louder sound
using the reversed mouthpiece. Imagine that !
At 10:58 AM -0400 3/15/10, dhbailey wrote:
timothy.price wrote:
As radical an idea as actual experimentation
may be, I tried it on my trumpet, and by gosh,
you get a much louder sound
using the reversed mouthpiece. Imagine that !
But you also get a different timbre, so it's a
trade off
John Howell wrote:
At 10:58 AM -0400 3/15/10, dhbailey wrote:
timothy.price wrote:
As radical an idea as actual experimentation may be, I tried it on
my trumpet, and by gosh, you get a much louder sound
using the reversed mouthpiece. Imagine that !
But you also get a different timbre, so
Yeah, I just tried to go Ta-ka-da, ta-ka-da with my tongue in my
cheek ... came out sounding something like a rat going down a sewer
pipe ...
Dean
On Mar 15, 2010, at 9:22 AM, Ray Horton wrote:
John Howell wrote:
(Sorry; tongue very definitely in cheek--and it's hard to triple-
Interestingly enough the piece for which I am considering this effect has 1
D-trumpet (or E-flat if the player prefers) and 2 fluegelhorns. We'll see if I
wind up giveng the effect to any or all of them.
ajr
John Howell john.how...@vt.edu wrote:
At 10:58 AM -0400 3/15/10, dhbailey
John Howell wrote:
At 10:58 AM -0400 3/15/10, dhbailey wrote:
timothy.price wrote:
As radical an idea as actual experimentation may be, I tried it on my
trumpet, and by gosh, you get a much louder sound
using the reversed mouthpiece. Imagine that !
But you also get a different timbre, so
When we used this technique, the players simply blew through the instruments
with the mouthpieces in place. It was audible from the audience.
Cheers,
Lawrence
--
Lawrenceyates.co.uk
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Robert Patterson wrote:
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 7:47 PM, dhbailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com wrote:
Perhaps the effect differs with different numbers of people doing it, but
I've heard it done quite effectively without anybody reversing mouthpieces.
So help me to understand. You
At 9:52 PM -0600 3/13/10, Robert Patterson wrote:
So help me to understand. You are sitting in the audience of a large
hall listening to an ensemble with a large number of players. How do
you know whether they were reversing their mouthpieces? I ask in all
seriousness, because many players do
All depends on who wins the power game.
Aaron J. Rabushka
arabus...@austin.rr.com
- Original Message -
From: John Howell john.how...@vt.edu
To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: blowing air through brass instruments
At 9:52 PM -0600 3/13
On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Aaron Rabushka
arabus...@austin.rr.com wrote:
All depends on who wins the power game.
As a composer visiting for a couple of days to a professional ensemble
that plays together all the time, you can't win the power game, and
you best not try. Orchestras are one
On Mar 14, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
reversing the mouthpiece *definitely*
does.
As radical an idea as actual experimentation may be, I tried it on my
trumpet, and by gosh, you get a much louder sound
using the reversed mouthpiece. Imagine that !
timothy.key.price
On Mar 14, 2010, at 11:17 AM, John Howell wrote:
... just as it would be if he tried to write for lute with brass
choir?
That sounds like a challenge!
mdl
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On 14 Mar 2010 at 13:17, John Howell wrote:
lute with brass choir
This made me laugh out loud, and start imagining impossible
ensembles. I started with the bass lute with brass choir, and turned
it into solo lute on-stage with antiphonal brass choirs in the side
galleries.
Other than mixing
On 3/14/2010 1:44 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 14 Mar 2010 at 13:17, John Howell wrote:
lute with brass choir
This made me laugh out loud, and start imagining impossible
ensembles. I started with the bass lute with brass choir, and turned
it into solo lute on-stage with antiphonal brass
At 4:44 PM -0400 3/14/10, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 14 Mar 2010 at 13:17, John Howell wrote:
lute with brass choir
This made me laugh out loud, and start imagining impossible
ensembles. I started with the bass lute with brass choir, and turned
it into solo lute on-stage with antiphonal
On Mar 14, 2010, at 5:16 PM, dershem wrote:
On 3/14/2010 1:44 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 14 Mar 2010 at 13:17, John Howell wrote:
lute with brass choir
This made me laugh out loud, and start imagining impossible
ensembles. I started with the bass lute with brass choir, and turned
it
Well, you would need a text indication as well! X heads are common
for all kinds of unpitched sounds on many instruments, but you need
to say what you mean.
Christopher
On Sat Mar 13, at SaturdayMar 13 12:17 AM, Rich Caldwell wrote:
In this score X noteheads and diamonds are used for other
Guy Hayden wrote:
Not being a brass player, I find this suggestion difficult to understand.
Can you describe it a bit more clearly? Do you blow across the wrong end
of the mouthpiece like blowing across a beer bottle? What I cannot figure
is the idea of inverting the mouthpiece. Aren't they
air through brass instruments
There's no need to use a mouthpiece at all. If you do as
has been suggested and reverse the mouthpiece so you're
blowing into the backbore and the cup is placed over the
receiver you don't have to work as hard to get a windy
sound, but the pitch of that windy sound
On Mar 12, 2010, at 6:27 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
I clearly remember what our principal trumpet said one time to a
composer who had asked fro the effect (n the middle of rehearsal in
front of the entire orch. and conductor). You know, I have spent a
lot of money to have a trumpet that
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Andrew Stiller kalli...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
Are you saying the effect is impossible? If so, I can cite numerous
recordings from major composers proving you wrong. If it's not impossible,
then what are you saying? That it's beneath your dignity, or that you
For the record Watrous was definitely paying an homage to Stuart Dempster,
for whom composer Robert Erickson wrote _General Speech_ which is a
semi-theatrical setting of MacArthur's farewell address for solo trombone,
using every variety of vowel resonance and consonant articulation
Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Mar 12, 2010, at 6:27 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
I clearly remember what our principal trumpet said one time to a
composer who had asked fro the effect (n the middle of rehearsal in
front of the entire orch. and conductor). You know, I have spent a
lot of money to
Robert Patterson wrote:
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Andrew Stiller kalli...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
Are you saying the effect is impossible? If so, I can cite numerous
recordings from major composers proving you wrong. If it's not impossible,
then what are you saying? That it's beneath your
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 7:47 PM, dhbailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com wrote:
Perhaps the effect differs with different numbers of people doing it, but
I've heard it done quite effectively without anybody reversing mouthpieces.
So help me to understand. You are sitting in the audience
On Sat Mar 13, at SaturdayMar 13 10:52 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 7:47 PM, dhbailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com wrote:
Perhaps the effect differs with different numbers of people doing
it, but
I've heard it done quite effectively without anybody reversing
Amen to that, Andrew. And then all you'd have to do is to borrow his
silent trumpet and show him how to get the effect.
Reminds me of the story I heard where Andrés Segovia told Heitor Villa-Lobos
that something he was asking for couldn't be done, whereupon V-L picked up
the guitar
IIRC Ligeti calls on his brass players in Atmosphères to blow air through
the instruments without any definite pitch or characteristic brass
instrument sound. Does anyone here know of others who have done this, and
what the limits are? (You'd think having been a brass player I'd know this,
but
This is not that unusual an effect for brass players. What composers
(including Ligeti) seem not to realize is that brass instruments are
designed *not to make noise* when you blow air through them, which
tends to defeat the purpose.
The proper way to get the desired effect is to remove the
Robert:
This is not that unusual an effect for brass players. What composers
(including Ligeti) seem not to realize is that brass instruments are
designed *not to make noise* when you blow air through them, which
tends to defeat the purpose.
Me:
But just as the bumblebee that theoretically can't
Some years ago I added that effect to the start of a piece we were
performing in a concert. The concert was being recorded. The audience
heard the effect, the cloth-eared recording engineer did not and failed to
switch on his equipment until someone pointed out to him that we had
started.
The large orchestral piece I'm working on now calls for this effect through
most of it, in all of the brass and woodwinds (w/o mouthpieces or reeds
depending on instrument), mostly p or mp. He notated this in his manuscript
with a clef (since it's large sections, not just a note here and
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Neal Gittleman nealg...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Me:
But just as the bumblebee that theoretically can't fly flies just fine, the
effect seems to work. I suspect what's happening is that the players are
making all the noise in their mouths/lips and using the
I prefer the notation suggested in Kurt Stone's Music Notation in the
20th Century on p. 186 at the bottom. It's not particular convenient
to render in Finale but it can be done.
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Rich Caldwell caldw...@shypuppy.net wrote:
The large orchestral piece I'm working on
At 5:30 PM -0600 3/12/10, Robert Patterson wrote:
I prefer the notation suggested in Kurt Stone's Music Notation in the
20th Century on p. 186 at the bottom. It's not particular convenient
to render in Finale but it can be done.
One has to wonder about some composers, whether they actually
Without wishing to appear contrarian, but speaking again from personal
experience -- having written multiple pieces that employ this effect -- it is
perfectly possible to make pitchless, audible (if faint) sounds by blowing air
(usually augmented by a slight whistling effect) through a brass
On 3/12/2010 10:55 AM, Aaron Rabushka wrote:
IIRC Ligeti calls on his brass players in Atmosphères to blow air
through the instruments without any definite pitch or characteristic
brass instrument sound. Does anyone here know of others who have done
this, and what the limits are? (You'd think
around? Do you mean reverse the mouthpiece?
Guy Hayden
-Original Message-
From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of
Robert Patterson
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 3:41 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: blowing air through brass instruments
...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of
dershem
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:05 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: blowing air through brass instruments
On 3/12/2010 10:55 AM, Aaron Rabushka wrote:
IIRC Ligeti calls on his brass players in Atmosphères to blow air
Darcy is correct, both about the ability to make sounds through a brass
instrument with air, when one desires to, and about the probable intent
of the trumpet player in question.
Back when the Louisville Orchestra was in the forefront of performance
of new music for orchestra (days past,
I've done this a lot, and all I and my colleagues do is make a
hissing sound with our tongue or lips when blowing. It's true that
the instrument itself does not make much noise unless you do
something other than blow air. Robert's other points stand, but
nobody I know takes off or inverts
I've seen X heads for solid rhythmic values and diamonds for half and
whole notes, with cresc. and dim. wedges. No need for a special clef,
and it usually happens on the middle line of whatever clef we already
happen to be in (trombones!)
Christopher
On 12-Mar-10, at 12-Mar-10 5:56 PM,
dershem wrote:
Seriously, though, the limits depend on the player. I can recall
seeing Bill Watrous speak through his trombone.
cd
None of these effects are as resonant as actually _playing_ the
instrument, though, and can fool the player, and possibly the conductor,
as to how far the
On 3/12/2010 7:26 PM, Ray Horton wrote:
dershem wrote:
Seriously, though, the limits depend on the player. I can recall
seeing Bill Watrous speak through his trombone.
cd
None of these effects are as resonant as actually _playing_ the
instrument, though, and can fool the player, and
dershem wrote:
Seriously, though, the limits depend on the player. I can recall
seeing Bill Watrous speak through his trombone.
cd
..
That could be fun, but Bill did more of a ... controlled vowel
movement, changing the timbre of the sounds he played to sound like
speech. He was
On 3/12/2010 8:12 PM, Ray Horton wrote:
dershem wrote:
Seriously, though, the limits depend on the player. I can recall
seeing Bill Watrous speak through his trombone.
cd
..
That could be fun, but Bill did more of a ... controlled vowel
movement, changing the timbre of the sounds he
You take the mouthpiece out of the receptacle and invert it so that
the small end is pointing at your lips and the large end is covering
the end of the leadpipe (but not touching it). Then you close your
lips over the small end of the mouthpiece and blow through it. You
basically get the same
In this score X noteheads and diamonds are used for other things in both the
brass and woodwinds, so that might be confusing.
I don't have the Stone (gasp), so I don't know what he shows.
On Mar 12, 2010, at 8:56 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
I've seen X heads for solid rhythmic values and
Hi Robert,
(Or if, as I wonder if Darcy does, the instruments have microphones.)
Depends on the room. But granted, when we are playing unamplified, the room is
generally pretty small. Blow air works fine, unamplified, in a space like the
Jazz Gallery (which seats 75). Probably less well in a
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