On 10/12/2012 10:58 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
[snip]
To state the obvious: everyone has their own limitations, and just
because someone's areas of expertise and specialization are different
from yours doesn't necessarily mean they're less skilled.
[snip]
That is very well stated, Darcy!
On 10/12/2012 11:56 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
[snip]
clef. (One of my comp teachers suggested writing the horn parts on
mezzo-soprano clef, since that has the same lines and spaces as F
transposition, but my skills--I must admit--do not extend to mezzo-soprano
clef, so it always confused me
Once again we have the assumption that the use of C scores implies anything
whatsoever about the skillset of the people that use them.
Not from me.. That's why I used the word 'irrationally'.
Steve P.
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At 4:10 AM -0400 10/13/12, David H. Bailey wrote:
I am so glad this discussion has gone on this long -- all this
discussion of mezzo-soprano clef (c on the 2nd line) has given me an
epiphany. I've never fully understood the use of the clefs for
transposition, but now I have learned that reading
)
patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com
-Original Message-
From: David Froom [mailto:dfr...@smcm.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 12:40 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Transposition Exp.
On 2 Oct 2012, at 1:00 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
One could discuss all day longs things that singers
Absolutely not!
I could not disagree more.
Cheers,
Lawrence
On 12 October 2012 17:11, Patrick Sheehan patricksheehanmu...@gmail.comwrote:
In the same vein for hearing things in your head, EVERY SCORE in this world
should be a C-Score. EVERY. SCORE.
Lawrenceyates.co.uk
On 10/12/2012 12:11 PM, Patrick Sheehan wrote:
In the same vein for hearing things in your head, EVERY SCORE in this world
should be a C-Score. EVERY. SCORE.
Except for those of us who work with the transposing instruments and can
look at the printed note for an alto saxophone and hear the
Exactly, David.
On 12 October 2012 21:08, David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com wrote:
On 10/12/2012 12:11 PM, Patrick Sheehan wrote:
In the same vein for hearing things in your head, EVERY SCORE in this
world
should be a C-Score. EVERY. SCORE.
Except for those of us
At 11:11 AM -0500 10/12/12, Patrick Sheehan wrote:
In the same vein for hearing things in your head, EVERY SCORE in this world
should be a C-Score. EVERY. SCORE.
Why?
To save people the trouble of learning to read
transpositions? To keep pianists happy within
their limitations?
How about
: The Saturday Blues on 89.5 WNIJ-FM, 1 pm - 4 pm (CST) WNIJ.org
1-815-973-2317 (m)
patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com
-Original Message-
From: David Froom [mailto:dfr...@smcm.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 12:40 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Transposition Exp.
On 2
: Re: [Finale] Transposition Exp.
On 2 Oct 2012, at 1:00 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
One could discuss all day longs things that singers should and should
not
do. I think books have been written on the subject. But they are beside
the
point here.
What I am saying is, if you want
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Transposition Exp.
On 2 Oct 2012, at 1:00 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
One could discuss all day longs things that singers should and should
not
do. I think books have been written on the subject. But they are beside
the
point here.
What I am saying
At 9:37 PM -0500 10/12/12, Robert Patterson wrote:
That said, if you can't read C scores, there's a whole lot of important
literature that is a closed book to you.
But even if you can, there is information that
SHOULD be obvious but is hidden behind the
concert pitch score.
Case in point.
] Transposition Exp.
On 2 Oct 2012, at 1:00 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
One could discuss all day longs things that singers should and should
not
do. I think books have been written on the subject. But they are beside
the
point here.
What I am saying is, if you want the best performance
john, you can't extend your experiences with badly done concert pitch
scores to the entire realm of concert pitch scores. and you can't
blame proko for modern editions of his scores. i (don't know for
sure but) would assume the score he submitted and the version he
proofed for publication
I strongly doubt that Prokofiev was working with transposed scores and
editors were changing them, considering his most famous contemporaries
(notably Stravinsky and Shosty) used transposed scores. On that evidence
alone I infer that Proko wanted his scores in concert pitch.
My Dover score for
On 2 Oct 2012, at 1:00 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
One could discuss all day longs things that singers should and should not
do. I think books have been written on the subject. But they are beside the
point here.
What I am saying is, if you want the best performance out of the most
number
My solution here is a vocal score with piano reduction (never to be actually
played) heavily marked with relevant instrumental cues.
It can be much better than leaving the singers to decipher their own cues.
Steve P.
On 2 Oct 2012, at 18:40, David Froom dfr...@smcm.edu wrote:
On 2 Oct 2012,
Thank you, Steve. You are the first to respond
to my open question regarding the use of a piano
reduction, which after all is exactly why piano
reductions became standard in the first place, to
provide the necessary information to singers in
compact form that does not require the ability to
I did some more messing around and discovered it had nothing to do with the
expressions. The Garritan player was somehow confused. I changed the
playback instrument from Contrabassoon Solo to Bass Clarinet Solo which
caused the instrument to start playing again. Then I changed it back and
all was
Maybe I'm misunderstanding but if I make a concert score (never by choice..) I
make liberal use of octave displaced clefs.
Steve P.
On 1 Oct 2012, at 04:50, Robert Patterson rob...@robertgpatterson.com wrote:
I am writing a contrabassoon part in a C score. The way I usually handle C
scores
Octave displaced clefs is certainly one way to do it. I find them to be
overly fussy and potentially not as clear as regular clefs. One could
change the glyph for the octave displaced clefs (and I have tried this),
but then you can't tell the octave-displaced from the regular, so you could
I agree. A concert-pitch score with unmarked octave transpositions can be
quite confusing. Octave clefs clear any confusion quite easily, without
explanation needed.
Raymond Horton
Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra
Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC
Composer, Arranger
VISIT US AT
Hi Robert,
Do you generally work with concert pitch scores? I seemed to recall you
normally work with transposed scores. In transposed scores, you'll only ever
see the octave-displaced clefs if you have Display in Concert Pitch
temporarily turned on (for, e.g., note entry). But they don't show
I switched back to concert pitch a few years ago. In my advancing years I
want no unnecessary barriers. Another reason is that in recent years I have
started writing a lot of vocal music, and no singer should ever be
presented a transposed score, not unless the singer has perfect pitch, or
unless
James Argue djar...@mac.com
Date: Monday, October 1, 2012 1:20 pm
Subject: Re: [Finale] Transposition Exp.
To: finale@shsu.edu
Hi Robert,
Do you generally work with concert pitch scores? I seemed to
recall you normally work with transposed scores. In transposed
scores, you'll only ever see
...@videotron.ca
To: finale@shsu.edu
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2012 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Finale] Transposition Exp.
Darcy, they claim that expressions in 2012c now chase correctly if you start
playback from the middle of the piece. Have you tested that to see if it fixed
now or not? My simple tests all
-
From: Darcy James Argue djar...@mac.com
Date: Monday, October 1, 2012 1:20 pm
Subject: Re: [Finale] Transposition Exp.
To: finale@shsu.edu
Hi Robert,
Do you generally work with concert pitch scores? I seemed to
recall you normally work with transposed scores. In transposed
scores, you'll
Hi Chris,
I'm actually having trouble getting GPO pizz. and arco expressions to work
*at all* in Fin2012c, let alone chase correctly from m.1. This is admittedly in
scores imported from earlier versions of Finale, but I can confirm that there
are still significant issues.
Cheers,
- DJA
-
At 1:04 PM -0500 10/1/12, Robert Patterson wrote:
I switched back to concert pitch a few years ago. In my advancing years I
want no unnecessary barriers.
Hi, Robert, and of course to each his own on
questions like this one. I personally find that
a concert pitch score presents me with
No, I mean vocal chamber music with transposing instruments.
On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 1:35 PM, John Howell john.how...@vt.edu wrote:
At 1:04 PM -0500 10/1/12, Robert Patterson wrote:
I switched back to concert pitch a few years ago. In my advancing years I
want no unnecessary barriers.
Hi,
My music has no key signatures, so there is no notational cue what the
transposition is. I struggle to remember at any given moment if it is
clarinet in A or clarinet in Bb, for example. For a while I was putting the
transposition in with the instrument abbrev. name, but that takes up space
and
At 2:41 PM -0500 10/1/12, Robert Patterson wrote:
No, I mean vocal chamber music with transposing instruments.
Ahhh. That didn't occur to me. Sorry. But why
is that really a problem? 90% of singers
couldn't read a viola part in alto clef, either,
but *I* would want to see it where it
The business about providing a C score for singers is a recommendation that
comes from bitter experience. I wrote a cycle for soprano, horn,
percussion, and piano. The singer is working from score. Originally it was
a transposed score, but I quickly discovered the singers were much more
Way back in undergrad theory, we were painstakingly, over a period of
time, analyzing the Wagner Tristan Prelude and Liebestod from the
miniature full scores. If you recall, that is a particular challenge,
besides the obvious harmonic ones, as it features such transposing
favorites as a pair each
One could discuss all day longs things that singers should and should not
do. I think books have been written on the subject. But they are beside the
point here.
What I am saying is, if you want the best performance out of the most
number of singers, I highly recommend providing a C score. I have
I am writing a contrabassoon part in a C score. The way I usually handle C
scores is that I label each transposing instrument sounding as written,
but I do not so label octave transposing instruments. That allows me to not
be fussy about them.
But it puts me in a quandary for correct playback,
Hi Robert,
I always use the 8vb bass clef in these situations, with the transposition set
to 8va, bass clef.
This works reliably, without messing with expressions -- is it a possibility in
your case? If you're using a transposed score, it should work just fine with no
issues, since no one
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