Re: Global backup solution for FBSD Ubuntu
On 7/4/2010 4:43 PM, bsd wrote: Hello, I am trying to build a global backup solution for couple of strategic servers (7) based on two operating systems : - FreeBSD (6 - 7 // soon 7 - 8) - Ubuntu 8.04 LTS These servers are hosting some strategic components mainly related to DNS infrastructure and databases. For the moment I am backing up these server using network based backup solution: - A duplicity based solution which backs up key directories in my infrastructure on a remote FTP server provided by my hosting company. - A dump of some key components which I am doing on regular basis for FreeBSD servers. - Duplicity is also used for the Ubuntu servers. - Databases are replicated live on a remote server using slony for the most strategic ones (Postgres DB) and using mysql dump export for MySQL. • I am not a 100% sure these solutions will allow me to restart rapidly from a crash, specially for Ubuntu servers. • I would like to know which solution(s) you have deployed at what cost for what results ? I am actually considering couple of different solutions - SAIT solution and backula. - Disk based solution (maybe also with backula). … I have couple of servers that will reach their end of life that could be recycled as backup solution at a very convenient price… Thanks for you help. Gregober --- PGP ID -- 0x1BA3C2FD bsd @at@ todoo.biz Followup FYI: http://www.mondorescue.org/ -- Tim Daneliuk tun...@tundraware.com PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Global backup solution for FBSD Ubuntu
krad writes: In my experience dedup requires a fairly large amount of juice so if your backups are large I hope you machines are big on ram The way tarsnap does it is not that intensive. I have used in an old 900Mhz machine with less than 640MB of RAM and it worked well. I think the program computes some sort of hash for blocks of data and then the server checks to see if it already has that block. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Global backup solution for FBSD Ubuntu
On 8 July 2010 05:10, Francisco Reyes li...@stringsutils.com wrote: bsd writes: I am trying to build a global backup solution for couple of strategic servers (7) based on two operating systems : Depending on how much data you are trying to backup and whether an internet backup solution would work, you may want to take a look at tarsnap: http://www.tarsnap.com/ Works on both FreeBSD and Linux. It has deduplication capabilities within a server. You can do several backups as full and the service will only store what has changed. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org In my experience dedup requires a fairly large amount of juice so if your backups are large I hope you machines are big on ram ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Global backup solution for FBSD Ubuntu
I used to use tapes, I have changed for disks, it is much much faster and easier. And cheaper! In a 3U enclosure you can have 16 disks, for 32TB of storage. A sun x4500 can get 48 drives in 4u. Its intel based so should run freebsd ok if you want to. Not sure what the max drive size is but you should be looking at about ~30-70 TB depending on drive size and array configuration ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Global backup solution for FBSD Ubuntu
bsd writes: I am trying to build a global backup solution for couple of strategic servers (7) based on two operating systems : Depending on how much data you are trying to backup and whether an internet backup solution would work, you may want to take a look at tarsnap: http://www.tarsnap.com/ Works on both FreeBSD and Linux. It has deduplication capabilities within a server. You can do several backups as full and the service will only store what has changed. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Global backup solution for FBSD Ubuntu
On 4 July 2010 23:18, Tim Daneliuk tun...@tundraware.com wrote: On 07/04/10 16:43, bsd wrote: Hello, I am trying to build a global backup solution for couple of strategic servers (7) based on two operating systems : - FreeBSD (6 - 7 // soon 7 - 8) - Ubuntu 8.04 LTS These servers are hosting some strategic components mainly related to DNS infrastructure and databases. For the moment I am backing up these server using network based backup solution: - A duplicity based solution which backs up key directories in my infrastructure on a remote FTP server provided by my hosting company. - A dump of some key components which I am doing on regular basis for FreeBSD servers. - Duplicity is also used for the Ubuntu servers. - Databases are replicated live on a remote server using slony for the most strategic ones (Postgres DB) and using mysql dump export for MySQL. • I am not a 100% sure these solutions will allow me to restart rapidly from a crash, specially for Ubuntu servers. • I would like to know which solution(s) you have deployed at what cost for what results ? I am actually considering couple of different solutions - SAIT solution and backula. - Disk based solution (maybe also with backula). … I have couple of servers that will reach their end of life that could be recycled as backup solution at a very convenient price… I wrote a simple shell-based solution for this problem some time ago. It (and FreeBSD instructions) can be found: http://www.tundraware.com/Software/tbku/ I am able to recover a production server (DNS, dhcp, http, sendmail, etc...) in under 30 minutes using this technique. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org we use an rsync based solution at work. All the files are basically rsyncd onto a big opensolaris filer backed with zfs. We then snapshot each hosts file system after the completed backup. It then gives us an incremental forever backup so is generally quite fast to do. Restores are also fairly fast depending on the size of the data set. For a full restore I boot into the new box on a liveusb os, partition/slice, newfs, mount and push the rsync back. All fairly easy and quick. With regard to database backups, we run all our mysql and oracle dbs on zfs. This allows us to put a global write lock on the db and flush everything to disk. We then snapshot the db zfs fs and remove the write lock. Alternatively if its a mysql slave, we just stop the slave, flush and snap. This means we can take hot backups of all our dbs with minimal impact. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Global backup solution for FBSD Ubuntu
Hi, I am trying to build a global backup solution for couple of strategic servers (7) based on two operating systems : - FreeBSD (6 - 7 // soon 7 - 8) - Ubuntu 8.04 LTS I am running amanda as a centralized backup solution for FreeBSD, Linuxes and Windows. Amanda server is a dedicated machine with 7.5 TB disks (about 2300 USD assembly machine, gives me over 4 weeks or daily incremental backup, but the duration really depends on your usage). The more sensitive services I also backup using the protocol own duplication (master-slave database, DNS replication, etc.) With MySQL server replication, you can have the slave server running your actual database and ready to go in case the primary crashes. If the availability of the service is really critical, you must consider an high-availability solution, not only a backup. With that I have all the needed information to restore a faulty service. - SAIT solution and backula. I used to use tapes, I have changed for disks, it is much much faster and easier. And cheaper! In a 3U enclosure you can have 16 disks, for 32TB of storage. ∙ I am not a 100% sure these solutions will allow me to restart rapidly from a crash, specially for Ubuntu servers. Depends on how you define rapidly... Backup and high availability have different/complementary roles: the first one assures that no data are lost, the second assures that the service will always be available. You know your needs :) Best regards, Olivier ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Global backup solution for FBSD Ubuntu
Hello, I am trying to build a global backup solution for couple of strategic servers (7) based on two operating systems : - FreeBSD (6 - 7 // soon 7 - 8) - Ubuntu 8.04 LTS These servers are hosting some strategic components mainly related to DNS infrastructure and databases. For the moment I am backing up these server using network based backup solution: - A duplicity based solution which backs up key directories in my infrastructure on a remote FTP server provided by my hosting company. - A dump of some key components which I am doing on regular basis for FreeBSD servers. - Duplicity is also used for the Ubuntu servers. - Databases are replicated live on a remote server using slony for the most strategic ones (Postgres DB) and using mysql dump export for MySQL. • I am not a 100% sure these solutions will allow me to restart rapidly from a crash, specially for Ubuntu servers. • I would like to know which solution(s) you have deployed at what cost for what results ? I am actually considering couple of different solutions - SAIT solution and backula. - Disk based solution (maybe also with backula). … I have couple of servers that will reach their end of life that could be recycled as backup solution at a very convenient price… Thanks for you help. Gregober --- PGP ID -- 0x1BA3C2FD bsd @at@ todoo.biz ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Global backup solution for FBSD Ubuntu
On 07/04/10 16:43, bsd wrote: Hello, I am trying to build a global backup solution for couple of strategic servers (7) based on two operating systems : - FreeBSD (6 - 7 // soon 7 - 8) - Ubuntu 8.04 LTS These servers are hosting some strategic components mainly related to DNS infrastructure and databases. For the moment I am backing up these server using network based backup solution: - A duplicity based solution which backs up key directories in my infrastructure on a remote FTP server provided by my hosting company. - A dump of some key components which I am doing on regular basis for FreeBSD servers. - Duplicity is also used for the Ubuntu servers. - Databases are replicated live on a remote server using slony for the most strategic ones (Postgres DB) and using mysql dump export for MySQL. • I am not a 100% sure these solutions will allow me to restart rapidly from a crash, specially for Ubuntu servers. • I would like to know which solution(s) you have deployed at what cost for what results ? I am actually considering couple of different solutions - SAIT solution and backula. - Disk based solution (maybe also with backula). … I have couple of servers that will reach their end of life that could be recycled as backup solution at a very convenient price… I wrote a simple shell-based solution for this problem some time ago. It (and FreeBSD instructions) can be found: http://www.tundraware.com/Software/tbku/ I am able to recover a production server (DNS, dhcp, http, sendmail, etc...) in under 30 minutes using this technique. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: continuous backup solution for freebsd?
On Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 12:58:30PM +0300, Evren Yurtesen wrote: Hello, Is there a known continuous backup solution similar to r1soft backup for FreeBSD? I googled a lot but couldnt find anything. R1soft says they need help to develop FreeBSD support in their product. Do you know anybody who can help r1soft on this issue? Please see: http://forum.r1soft.com/showpost.php?p=3414postcount=9 Would the GEOM gate class handle this? See ggatec(8) and ggated(8). -- | Jeremy Chadwickjdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
continuous backup solution for freebsd?
Hello, Is there a known continuous backup solution similar to r1soft backup for FreeBSD? I googled a lot but couldnt find anything. R1soft says they need help to develop FreeBSD support in their product. Do you know anybody who can help r1soft on this issue? Please see: http://forum.r1soft.com/showpost.php?p=3414postcount=9 Thanks, Evren ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for freebsd?
Bacula ? http://www.bacula.org I use it at work to backup linux and freebsd boxes and it works like a charm. On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 04:20 -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: On Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 12:58:30PM +0300, Evren Yurtesen wrote: Hello, Is there a known continuous backup solution similar to r1soft backup for FreeBSD? I googled a lot but couldnt find anything. R1soft says they need help to develop FreeBSD support in their product. Do you know anybody who can help r1soft on this issue? Please see: http://forum.r1soft.com/showpost.php?p=3414postcount=9 Would the GEOM gate class handle this? See ggatec(8) and ggated(8). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for freebsd?
Jeremy Chadwick wrote: On Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 12:58:30PM +0300, Evren Yurtesen wrote: Hello, Is there a known continuous backup solution similar to r1soft backup for FreeBSD? I googled a lot but couldnt find anything. R1soft says they need help to develop FreeBSD support in their product. Do you know anybody who can help r1soft on this issue? Please see: http://forum.r1soft.com/showpost.php?p=3414postcount=9 Would the GEOM gate class handle this? See ggatec(8) and ggated(8). I am not saying it is impossible. They just need somebody to put them to right track I guess. I personally cant do that. It would be nice if somebody who has knowledge in this area contacts r1soft. At the very least r1soft seems to be willing to communicate on this issue. Continuous backups as well as bare-metal-restore seem to be a key feature for many hosters. FreeBSD is loosing users because of this issue. Thanks, Evren ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for freebsd?
Julien Cigar wrote: Bacula ? http://www.bacula.org I use it at work to backup linux and freebsd boxes and it works like a charm. On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 04:20 -0700, Jeremy Chadwick wrote: On Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 12:58:30PM +0300, Evren Yurtesen wrote: Hello, Is there a known continuous backup solution similar to r1soft backup for FreeBSD? I googled a lot but couldnt find anything. R1soft says they need help to develop FreeBSD support in their product. Do you know anybody who can help r1soft on this issue? Please see: http://forum.r1soft.com/showpost.php?p=3414postcount=9 Would the GEOM gate class handle this? See ggatec(8) and ggated(8). Bacula does not support continuous backups as far as I know. It has to scan all the files to find new/changed files to backup. The r1soft agent monitors file system writes and backs up changed parts immediately. This does allow r1soft backup to restore the system to its latest state (10-15minutes ago state, thus continuous backup is achieved) as it continually updates the backups. Also has much less stress on the systems where the writes are not so much since it doesnt have to check every file at each backup cycle. Also r1soft cdp has support for MySQL where you can easily restore mysql data in table level if required. It is as well supported by a wide variety of web hosting automation systems for example H-Sphere ( http://www.parallels.com/hsphere/ ) etc. through plugins. Please see the info about continuous data protection: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_Data_Protection Otherwise I am currently using BackupPC (which is pretty good in my opinion and easier to use compared to Bacula) to take nightly backups of the servers. Thanks, Evren ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for freebsd?
On Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 05:36:32PM +0300, Evren Yurtesen wrote: Jeremy Chadwick wrote: On Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 12:58:30PM +0300, Evren Yurtesen wrote: Hello, Is there a known continuous backup solution similar to r1soft backup for FreeBSD? I googled a lot but couldnt find anything. R1soft says they need help to develop FreeBSD support in their product. Do you know anybody who can help r1soft on this issue? Please see: http://forum.r1soft.com/showpost.php?p=3414postcount=9 Would the GEOM gate class handle this? See ggatec(8) and ggated(8). I am not saying it is impossible. They just need somebody to put them to right track I guess. I personally cant do that. It would be nice if somebody who has knowledge in this area contacts r1soft. At the very least r1soft seems to be willing to communicate on this issue. First and foremost, the URL you gave is terse and out of context. Let people read the entire thread: http://forum.r1soft.com/showthread.php?p=3414 So let me throw around some ideas. First and foremost, David appears to be saying We'll take FreeBSD seriously if we can get proper documentation, and it needs to be thorough, that explains how to interface with devices on a block level so we can perform block-level backups and write our software appropriately. AFAIK we don't have any documentation that outlines that in a clear, concise manner. With regards to providing protocol documentation and letting the open-source community write the software, R1Soft is generally right. Time and resources are the biggest problem with open-source; do not think for a moment that just because millions of users can look at source code means they understand it, or even know how to write it, or will even *want* to. The majority do/will not. That said, I'd like to know exactly how low-level R1Soft's software truly is. dump(8), AFAIK, is block-level -- and that's a userland program. Does R1Soft's software *truly* require kernel-land? I have more to say on that issue (not against R1Soft, but speaking with regards to the current state of FreeBSD's developer count) if it truly does. I'm somewhat surprised that their software focuses on Linux and Windows and not Solaris and Linux, especially given that they're interested in dedicated server markets. Solaris is always the first OS that comes to my mind when talking about hardcore server operating systems. Continuous backups as well as bare-metal-restore seem to be a key feature for many hosters. Regarding continuous backups: the GEOM gate class could be used for this. Meaning, I think it could be used as an alternate to R1Soft's software. Regarding bare-metal restoration I'm not aware of how to do that under FreeBSD, Linux, or even Solaris with ease. In most cases, companies develop their own PXE-booting environments which wipe the disks and reinstall + restore data as they see fit. There is no standard. FreeBSD is loosing users because of this issue. Why does the number of FreeBSD users matter? Quantity does not necessarily represent quality. I'm sorry for sounding anti-FreeBSD, but the reality is that people should use whatever solutions work best for them -- if that's using Windows, Solaris, or Linux, great! Remember that open-source is about choice: and choice means supporting the possibility that someone chooses something else. Blind one-sided advocacy is very damaging to the open-source model and concept. -- | Jeremy Chadwickjdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for freebsd?
First of all, I am not an r1soft advocate, but they seem to be making a software which is popular and affordable and interested in giving FreeBSD support... r1soft is not the issue here, the problem is that there is no way to do near continuous backups on FreeBSD servers. Jeremy Chadwick wrote: That said, I'd like to know exactly how low-level R1Soft's software truly is. dump(8), AFAIK, is block-level -- and that's a userland program. Does R1Soft's software *truly* require kernel-land? I have more to say on that issue (not against R1Soft, but speaking with regards to the current state of FreeBSD's developer count) if it truly does. I think you might not have understood the concept of near continuous backups. The R1Soft backup monitors the filesystem operations and backs up written blocks. So it has to know what is written and when to be able to back it up. The dump command simply reads/writes the blocks. It cant only read changed blocks. It has to read the whole thing (inefficient). Continuous backups as well as bare-metal-restore seem to be a key feature for many hosters. Regarding continuous backups: the GEOM gate class could be used for this. Meaning, I think it could be used as an alternate to R1Soft's software. The GEOM gate allows mirroring to a remote machine, am I not right? That would be more or less same as same as using RAID. The continuous backup (or near continuous) means that you can restore the filesystem to a point like 15 minutes ago, or 1 hour ago. Besides, I hear geom might have network delay problems and it is much more complicated setup to build two machines in mirror configuration just for backup purposes as well as you cant restore to a point in the past. Regarding bare-metal restoration I'm not aware of how to do that under FreeBSD, Linux, or even Solaris with ease. In most cases, companies develop their own PXE-booting environments which wipe the disks and reinstall + restore data as they see fit. There is no standard. OK. Actually there is more than one solution which can do bare-metal-restores for FreeBSD also. However those solutions at best rely on nightly backups of the filesystems. With R1Soft, you can restore the system to only few minutes before the total meltdown. Unrelated to bare metal restore, with normal backups you are not taking backups of files which are created/deleted often. For example this can be customer mails or if a hacker hacks the box and removes his trails. Even sometimes customers upload some file and remove from their computer the same they and then accidentally remove from the server. With R1Soft backup the data would go into the backup server right away and you an restore every single file independent of when it was put or removed. FreeBSD is loosing users because of this issue. Why does the number of FreeBSD users matter? Quantity does not necessarily represent quality. Thats a perfectly fine statement. But a quality product would be nothing without users. As well as this problem effects the quality. Consider a system which has sensitive data which shouldnt get lost, with continuous data protecton you can restore such failed system to only few minutes before the failure point. Doing this is currently impossible with FreeBSD. Best we can do is to return to previous snapshot taken (which might be a day old). This is an important design criteria since restoring the lost data might be time consuming and expensive. Thge issue is not even r1soft, they are just the most popular company giving such solution, only if there was at least one backup solution which could provide near continuous data protection... In addition to this, near continuous backups create less load on boxes with a lot of reads but little writes. Standart backups have to scan all the files to detect which files were changed. I'm sorry for sounding anti-FreeBSD, but the reality is that people should use whatever solutions work best for them -- if that's using Windows, Solaris, or Linux, great! Remember that open-source is about choice: and choice means supporting the possibility that someone chooses something else. Blind one-sided advocacy is very damaging to the open-source model and concept. I agree, and please dont shoot the messenger :) I just have a bunch of customers who would use FreeBSD but not using only because of this problem. In addition to that I myself would like to use near continuous backups as well. I was just trying to inform the FreeBSD community here so if somebody can have some time to divert to giving the right advices to r1soft then we all could benefit from it. It doesnt even have to be free even, with a reasonable price they can probably hire somebody to work for building the basics of this feature. So the real question is, is there anybody who is willing and have the experience to help on this issue? Thanks, Evren ___ freebsd
Re: continuous backup solution for freebsd?
On Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 12:58:30PM +0300, Evren Yurtesen wrote: Hello, Is there a known continuous backup solution similar to r1soft backup for FreeBSD? I googled a lot but couldnt find anything. I don't think so. The closest thing I know of is rsnapshot (http://www.rsnapshot.org/). My solution is to run rsync in a cron job. In my situation this takes about 5 minutes for approximately 100GB of data. The time it takes will obviously depend on the rate of change in the data. You could also use local snapshots with mksnap_ffs(8), to solve the oh shit I deleted my files situation. Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpy2oCjkIRDg.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: continuous backup solution for freebsd?
of this. What's his background? I don't know, maybe some old guy who lives in a cave and has been studying BSD code in the steam tunnels; who knows. It's like they literally come out of the woodwork, while I don't see this sort of behaviour with Linux. With Linux, it's often Hi I work for large vendor, we're adding support for Linux, I need some help with regards to the following kernel piece... and they've got responses from 20 people in 24 hours. What I'm saying is that Linux has the upper hand here. More eyes, more people, more developers, larger community, larger vendor support, and much **much** faster turn-around time on fixes/bugs. We can sit here and argue about those facts all we want (it's the equivalent of doing burn-outs in an AMC Pacer in a parking lot -- wasted time, zero gain), but nothing changes the facts. Continuous backups as well as bare-metal-restore seem to be a key feature for many hosters. Regarding continuous backups: the GEOM gate class could be used for this. Meaning, I think it could be used as an alternate to R1Soft's software. The GEOM gate allows mirroring to a remote machine, am I not right? That would be more or less same as same as using RAID. The continuous backup (or near continuous) means that you can restore the filesystem to a point like 15 minutes ago, or 1 hour ago. What you're talking about sounds like filesystem snapshots, with an *immense* amount of granularity. Enterprise-level filers have this capability (I'm talking Network Appliance), and UFS2 with softupdates have it (called snapshots; but please be aware that there are *HUGE* problems with it, and it should not be relied upon for this kind of functionality) -- but nothing that can be restored within *minutes*. Even Netapp filers do not have that kind of granularity -- the amount of disk it would require would be astounding. Netapp filers often do snapshot generation hourly or nightly (it's configurable how often); minutes is unheard of. ZFS also has snapshot capability, but does not have real-time filesystem mirroring capabilities over a network (keyword: real-time). Besides, I hear geom might have network delay problems and it is much more complicated setup to build two machines in mirror configuration just for backup purposes as well as you cant restore to a point in the past. Well, GEOM gate is the only thing I know of which replicates filesystems over a network in real-time. Regarding bare-metal restoration I'm not aware of how to do that under FreeBSD, Linux, or even Solaris with ease. In most cases, companies develop their own PXE-booting environments which wipe the disks and reinstall + restore data as they see fit. There is no standard. OK. Actually there is more than one solution which can do bare-metal-restores for FreeBSD also. However those solutions at best rely on nightly backups of the filesystems. With R1Soft, you can restore the system to only few minutes before the total meltdown. Unrelated to bare metal restore, with normal backups you are not taking backups of files which are created/deleted often. For example this can be customer mails or if a hacker hacks the box and removes his trails. Even sometimes customers upload some file and remove from their computer the same they and then accidentally remove from the server. With R1Soft backup the data would go into the backup server right away and you an restore every single file independent of when it was put or removed. Right. We're definitely talking about snapshots, at least in concept. The fact that you're able to restore data within *minutes* is pretty impressive. I'm curious what sort of disk requirements are needed though (I guess it depends on how often changes happen on the filesystem). FreeBSD is loosing users because of this issue. Why does the number of FreeBSD users matter? Quantity does not necessarily represent quality. Thats a perfectly fine statement. But a quality product would be nothing without users. As well as this problem effects the quality. Consider a system which has sensitive data which shouldnt get lost, with continuous data protecton you can restore such failed system to only few minutes before the failure point. Doing this is currently impossible with FreeBSD. Best we can do is to return to previous snapshot taken (which might be a day old). This is an important design criteria since restoring the lost data might be time consuming and expensive. Thge issue is not even r1soft, they are just the most popular company giving such solution, only if there was at least one backup solution which could provide near continuous data protection... Part of the design issue here is that there's two concepts being merged into one thing: snapshots and backup restoration. I for one have never correlated snapshots and backup restorations (bare-metal recovery). I consider them completely separate things
Re: continuous backup solution for freebsd?
On Monday 06 October 2008 19:07:30 Evren Yurtesen wrote: First of all, I am not an r1soft advocate, but they seem to be making a software which is popular and affordable and interested in giving FreeBSD support... r1soft is not the issue here, the problem is that there is no way to do near continuous backups on FreeBSD servers. Jeremy Chadwick wrote: That said, I'd like to know exactly how low-level R1Soft's software truly is. dump(8), AFAIK, is block-level -- and that's a userland program. Does R1Soft's software *truly* require kernel-land? I have more to say on that issue (not against R1Soft, but speaking with regards to the current state of FreeBSD's developer count) if it truly does. I think you might not have understood the concept of near continuous backups. The R1Soft backup monitors the filesystem operations So does ggate. But read on. So it has to know what is written and when to be able to back it up. The dump command simply reads/writes the blocks. It cant only read changed blocks. It has to read the whole thing (inefficient). But Jeremy's point being, dump(8) does not need /dev/special_device to read/write at block level. Continuous backups as well as bare-metal-restore seem to be a key feature for many hosters. Regarding continuous backups: the GEOM gate class could be used for this. Meaning, I think it could be used as an alternate to R1Soft's software. The GEOM gate allows mirroring to a remote machine, am I not right? That would be more or less same as same as using RAID. The continuous backup (or near continuous) means that you can restore the filesystem to a point like 15 minutes ago, or 1 hour ago. Besides, I hear geom might have network delay problems and it is much more complicated setup to build two machines in mirror configuration just for backup purposes as well as you cant restore to a point in the past. I think once you and R1soft step out of the I need a block level device paradigm, you will see that modifying ggate with a copy and fall through mode, as well as a mechanism to block writes to the local provider, when the remote provider wants to write is the best solution all around and your best bet to get support for it. Right now, ggate does intercept and redirect, but the concept of copy and fall through is not that far away. Bringing the R1soft devs in contact with the FreeBSD geom list and having them browse the sys/geom/ggate sources to see how trivial it is to hook into filesystem operations would be the course of action I'd recommend. -- Mel Problem with today's modular software: they start with the modules and never get to the software part. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for freebsd?
Sorry for once more but: you can make incremental backups every x minutes with Bacula too .. it only takes one or two minutes on my box to scan for changed files for ~150GB (even faster if you tweak it a bit). It's not really a true continuous backup solution, but it's perfectly possible to restore directories/files for changes which occurred x minutes ago, and with retention periods of x days/months/years. On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 19:38 +0200, Roland Smith wrote: On Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 12:58:30PM +0300, Evren Yurtesen wrote: Hello, Is there a known continuous backup solution similar to r1soft backup for FreeBSD? I googled a lot but couldnt find anything. I don't think so. The closest thing I know of is rsnapshot (http://www.rsnapshot.org/). My solution is to run rsync in a cron job. In my situation this takes about 5 minutes for approximately 100GB of data. The time it takes will obviously depend on the rate of change in the data. You could also use local snapshots with mksnap_ffs(8), to solve the oh shit I deleted my files situation. Roland ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for freebsd?
Roland Smith wrote: On Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 12:58:30PM +0300, Evren Yurtesen wrote: Hello, Is there a known continuous backup solution similar to r1soft backup for FreeBSD? I googled a lot but couldnt find anything. I don't think so. The closest thing I know of is rsnapshot (http://www.rsnapshot.org/). My solution is to run rsync in a cron job. In my situation this takes about 5 minutes for approximately 100GB of data. The time it takes will obviously depend on the rate of change in the data. You could also use local snapshots with mksnap_ffs(8), to solve the oh shit I deleted my files situation. Thanks I am using BackupPC for such task already. Although it takes more than 5 minutes to traverse millions of files using rsync independent of if they were changed or not (since rsync has to scan all the files to detect what is changed or not even if it only checks modification times, this takes time for so many files). I just was curious about if anybody could contact r1soft and ask for a pile of money to implement a driver for FreeBSD, since I couldnt do it even if I wanted to :) Thanks, Evren ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for freebsd?
Jeremy Chadwick wrote: What I'm saying is that Linux has the upper hand here. More eyes, more people, more developers, larger community, larger vendor support, and much **much** faster turn-around time on fixes/bugs. We can sit here and argue about those facts all we want (it's the equivalent of doing burn-outs in an AMC Pacer in a parking lot -- wasted time, zero gain), but nothing changes the facts. Sorry, I had to remove the whole bunch of text that you wrote :) but I get the point. I think it is a funny historical fact that BSD was commercially licensed way too long to allow Linux to be developed at first place. If BSD was not commercial at that times, Linus Torvalds probably wouldnt have started writing the Linux kernel. Thus we wouldnt be having this sort of conversation now and it might as well be that Microsoft wouldnt have become so huge. If we look at this from that point of view then eventually all BSD and Linux etc. are bound to disappear in time and Microsoft will stand all alone. But things can change one step at a time. I prefer(or try) to look at this positively. I thought it wouldnt hurt to ask for help if somebody could contact r1soft and perhaps ask a pile of money to develop a driver. It would have been a win-win situation eh? Right. We're definitely talking about snapshots, at least in concept. The fact that you're able to restore data within *minutes* is pretty impressive. I'm curious what sort of disk requirements are needed though (I guess it depends on how often changes happen on the filesystem). Well it is not so fine grained (5 to 10 minutes intervals as mentioned). http://www.r1soft.com/CDP.html (there is more information in the link above, with links to outside sources on the concept such as wikipedia articles etc.) I know some large hosters who use this technology with Linux servers. As a matter of fact the only reason they went with Linux instead of FreeBSD is because they cant get CDP with FreeBSD. I can ask how much space it is using and return back to you. But if you think about it for a second, a traditional backup program would copy the whole file even if there was 1 byte changed in it. Lets say 10mbyte file and 1 byte is changed. R1soft copies only 1 byte. Sure enough the tables can turn around if the filesystem was modified really a lot. But it looks like this type of solution is mostly effective (at least I didnt see anywhere that anybody is complaining that it is using too much disk space yet). The best is, all it would take for FreeBSD users to be able to utilize this technology is a driver to interface with r1soft agent and buy a license. Now I am not expecting anybody to write this for free or nobody is obligated to help. I just dont know anybody who can help so I thought I would drop in a line here so... I for one have never correlated snapshots and backup restorations (bare-metal recovery). I consider them completely separate things, and handled *very* differently. I have a feeling that no one's done this on FreeBSD because the amount of effort required is quite large. Someone did mention HAMMER on DragonflyBSD, but I have no knowledge of it or what it provides -- that said, Matt (Dillon)'s stuff is usually very, very good. I also dont know much about HAMMER either. But it doesnt look like it will make mainstream usage anytime soon on FreeBSD if it ever does. Actually I found a nice document here: http://www.dragonflybsd.org/hammer/hammer.pdf http://www.dragonflybsd.org/hammer/index.shtml It depends on how the filesystem is done. For example, with UFS2+SU snapshots, snapshot generation can take literally hours: completely unreasonable. While with ZFS, snapshot generation usually takes 2-3 seconds -- even on massive changes (e.g. take a snapshot, then rm a 600MB ISO image, then compare present vs. snapshot -- the diff is something like 40KBytes). Yes, but r1soft backup can restore a single file at a consistent state without restoring the whole filesystem from a graphical user interface and can restore mysql databases at a table level. While I agree that there might be different solutions that I dont know about, it just takes a driver to get this functionality on current FreeBSD systems without everybody to change to ZFS or HAMMER. One has to think, would people change their filesystems or install a driver? :) I would rather pay license fee to a backup program and use the driver. The price of the software is very well justified if I can return back to 5min before in my backups. The data I might loose is much more expensive. I'm sorry for sounding anti-FreeBSD, but the reality is that people should use whatever solutions work best for them -- if that's using Windows, Solaris, or Linux, great! Remember that open-source is about choice: and choice means supporting the possibility that someone chooses something else. Blind one-sided advocacy is very damaging to the open-source model and
Re: continuous backup solution for freebsd?
Mel wrote: I think once you and R1soft step out of the I need a block level device paradigm, you will see that modifying ggate with a copy and fall through mode, as well as a mechanism to block writes to the local provider, when the remote provider wants to write is the best solution all around and your best bet to get support for it. Right now, ggate does intercept and redirect, but the concept of copy and fall through is not that far away. Bringing the R1soft devs in contact with the FreeBSD geom list and having them browse the sys/geom/ggate sources to see how trivial it is to hook into filesystem operations would be the course of action I'd recommend. Would it be too much to ask if you can send this information to R1Soft and refer to the post I linked? I just dont think that I can be an efficient gateway of information here :) Thanks, Evren ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: continuous backup solution for freebsd?
rsync via cron or raid? Brian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
remote backup solution over WAN
I am building one backup file server on WAN on FreeBSD, which will backup remote servers data over slow links, (256-512kbps), simply because i have never seen an operating system as stable/robust as FreeBSD ever :-) Now i want to know a technology that can sync only the changed data in a day rather then all the data daily, keep in mind the remote servers data would be Windows, Linux and Apple computers so the technology must be compatible with all ... regards *º¤., ¸¸,.¤º*¨¨¨*¤ Stingray *º¤., ¸¸,.¤º*¨¨*¤ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: remote backup solution over WAN
On 2008.08.17 20:22:00, S t i n g r a y wrote: I am building one backup file server on WAN on FreeBSD, which will backup remote servers data over slow links, (256-512kbps), simply because i have never seen an operating system as stable/robust as FreeBSD ever :-) Now i want to know a technology that can sync only the changed data in a day rather then all the data daily, keep in mind the remote servers data would be Windows, Linux and Apple computers so the technology must be compatible with all ... Rsync should suit your needs. Port:/usr/ports/net/rsync Site:http://samba.anu.edu.au/rsync/ For Windows: http://www.aboutmyip.com/AboutMyXApp/DeltaCopy.jsp (never tried it) Cheers, ~ Jason Morgan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: remote backup solution over WAN
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of S t i n g r a y Sent: August 17, 2008 11:22 PM To: FreeBSD; FreeBSD Subject: remote backup solution over WAN I am building one backup file server on WAN on FreeBSD, which will backup remote servers data over slow links, (256-512kbps), simply because i have never seen an operating system as stable/robust as FreeBSD ever :-) Now i want to know a technology that can sync only the changed data in a day rather then all the data daily, keep in mind the remote servers data would be Windows, Linux and Apple computers so the technology must be compatible with all ... regards *º¤., ¸¸,.¤º*¨¨¨*¤ Stingray *º¤., ¸¸,.¤º*¨¨*¤ For Windows + Unix try: http://www.itefix.no/cwrsync/ However, it doesn't sync open files, you need to use Shadow Copy to sync Windows open files. Tamouh ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Low-cost online disk backup solution on FreeBSD. Hardware/Software recomendations?
Good day, I need an advice. What hardware/software would you recommend for online disk backup server solution on FreeBSD? 99% of clients will be Windows XP/Vista users and the main requirement is low cost solution meaning that the client license should be free (GPL?) or low-priced compared to Tivoli or other vendors. I was looking at BoxBackup as a software and gonna test it pretty soon, I like the encription feature. Any sucess stories with it? Pros/Cons? Or other recomendations? Hardware is a big question. Any experience with Intel storage systems and FreeBSD? Like this one: http://www.intel.com/design/servers/storage/ssr212mc2/index.htm or http://www.intel.com/design/servers/storage/ssr212pp/index.htm Is this hardware supported? Any experience or other hardware recomendations? Any help would be highly appreciated. If this should be sent to some other list, please let me know. Thanks in advance. -- ViC ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Low-cost online disk backup solution on FreeBSD. Hardware/Software recomendations?
In response to Victor Meirans [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Good day, I need an advice. What hardware/software would you recommend for online disk backup server solution on FreeBSD? 99% of clients will be Windows XP/Vista users and the main requirement is low cost solution meaning that the client license should be free (GPL?) or low-priced compared to Tivoli or other vendors. I was looking at BoxBackup as a software and gonna test it pretty soon, I like the encription feature. Any sucess stories with it? Pros/Cons? Or other recomendations? Investigate both Bacula and BackupPC. Both might suit your needs, depending on the exact details of your needs. -- Bill Moran http://www.potentialtech.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backup Solution
Hi everybody , I like to know the different backup techniques that is very cheaper (I cant go for a SAN, mirror .. even if I can purchase those,please excuse me because I believe more productivity @ less resources )for my webserver, but any solution logicaly the cheapest one ,by which I can restore all the data that I have just before the server crash(if it occurs) What I followed was I configured a crontab in mydesktop PC which will run rsync utility through ssh to my webserver at 23 rd hour of a day . so I can get incremntal backup of the directories and database ( that I configuerd for rsync )daily . But I want a solution through that I can restore my server without any data lose (ex: if the server crashes at 23.30 hour then that 30 minutes data I lose ). So many experts here in this mailing lists can suggest their techniques for a full system recovery( backup solutions) after the crash without any data lose. Your kind responses will help me lot Thanks in advance KK _ Post free property ads on Yello Classifieds now! www.yello.in http://ss1.richmedia.in/recurl.asp?pid=220 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crash Recovery Backup Solution ?
From: dhaneshk k [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Backup Solution Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 06:11:14 + Hi everybody , I like to know the different backup techniques that is very cheaper (I cant go for a SAN, mirror .. even if I can purchase those,please excuse me because I believe more productivity @ less resources )for my webserver, but any solution logicaly the cheapest one ,by which I can restore all the data that I have just before the server crash(if it occurs) What I followed was I configured a crontab in mydesktop PC which will run rsync utility through ssh to my webserver at 23 rd hour of a day . so I can get incremntal backup of the directories and database ( that I configuerd for rsync )daily . But I want a solution through that I can restore my server without any data lose (ex: if the server crashes at 23.30 hour then that 30 minutes data I lose ). So many experts here in this mailing lists can suggest their techniques for a full system recovery( backup solutions) after the crash without any data lose. Your kind responses will help me lot Thanks in advance KK _ Post free property ads on Yello Classifieds now! www.yello.in http://ss1.richmedia.in/recurl.asp?pid=220 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Single,planning to marry? Find the right match @ shaadi.com http://ss1.richmedia.in/recurl.asp?pid=202 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backup Solution
On Fri, Sep 28, 2007 at 06:11:14AM +, dhaneshk k wrote: Hi everybody , I like to know the different backup techniques that is very cheaper (I cant go for a SAN, mirror .. even if I can purchase those,please excuse me because I believe more productivity @ less resources )for my webserver, but any solution logicaly the cheapest one ,by which I can restore all the data that I have just before the server crash(if it occurs) What I followed was I configured a crontab in mydesktop PC which will run rsync utility through ssh to my webserver at 23 rd hour of a day . so I can get incremntal backup of the directories and database ( that I configuerd for rsync )daily . But I want a solution through that I can restore my server without any data lose (ex: if the server crashes at 23.30 hour then that 30 minutes data I lose ). You are stuck with some kind of real time mirroring then. There is no backup solution that doesn't have at least a little lag. There are also socalled 'bare-metal' solutions such as Acronis, but in some sense, they are also a form of mirror/softupdate/journaling that may cost you possibly more than you want - given what you say above and are still vulnerable to a physical disk failure without additional backup and if you have to revert to one of those backups, then you have that lag loss. A mirror of a checksumming raid with periodic backups is probably the best you can get without getting in to huge money. The only question is your backup media. Tape is the old standby and still works, but takes a long time. Additional large disks are becoming popular because they are fast and easy but can get expensive when the dump takes more than one for a full dump. jerry So many experts here in this mailing lists can suggest their techniques for a full system recovery( backup solutions) after the crash without any data lose. Your kind responses will help me lot Thanks in advance KK _ Post free property ads on Yello Classifieds now! www.yello.in http://ss1.richmedia.in/recurl.asp?pid=220 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backup Solution
In response to dhaneshk k [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi everybody , I like to know the different backup techniques that is very cheaper (I cant go for a SAN, mirror .. even if I can purchase those,please excuse me because I believe more productivity @ less resources )for my webserver, but any solution logicaly the cheapest one ,by which I can restore all the data that I have just before the server crash(if it occurs) What I followed was I configured a crontab in mydesktop PC which will run rsync utility through ssh to my webserver at 23 rd hour of a day . so I can get incremntal backup of the directories and database ( that I configuerd for rsync )daily . But I want a solution through that I can restore my server without any data lose (ex: if the server crashes at 23.30 hour then that 30 minutes data I lose ). So many experts here in this mailing lists can suggest their techniques for a full system recovery( backup solutions) after the crash without any data lose. rsync more often. Seriously. If your data is that important, put it in a loop and run it nonstop, or with a 5-minute sleep between each run. In general, however, the requirements you seem to be asking for don't fall under the category of cheap. There are some things you just can't do cheaply, and getting up to the minute backups is one of them. Who are all these other people in the recipient list? -- Bill Moran http://www.potentialtech.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backup Solution
I am relatively new to the FreeBSD game and have a bit of a problem which I am not sure how to tackle. I recently build a server running VMWare ESX Server 3 which will eventually run 6-7 small production VM's. These Virtual Machines obviously have the need for backups and it poses quite a problem for me unless I connect 6-7 external tape drives and give each VM it's own tape device. I have looked into a few solutions using VM products (consolidated backup) but it can only be done if you utilise a SAN. The server is running RAID 5 with around 700GB of space. Each VM may take up to 50GB and backups might be around 15-20GB per VM. The machine itself has an internal LTO3 tape drive, has anyone come across this kind of situation before, and if so what would be a good way to backup each VM? It is easy enough to backup the image files from the host machine but I need file level backups within each VM also. I will be very grateful for suggestions or ways people have tackled this kind of problem in a production environment. We use rdiff-backup to perform incremental backups of VMWare machine files. It works very well. Check it out at http://www.nongnu.org/rdiff-backup/ Let me know if you need help on the setup. On the other hand, if you prefer to backup the VMWare machines as if they were physical ones, then I suggest rsnapshot. Of course, this will only work with UNIX VMs. More info here http://www.rsnapshot.org/ Have fun, David -- David Robillard UNIX systems administrator Oracle DBA CISSP, RHCE Sun Certified Security Administrator Montreal: +1 514 966 0122 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Backup Solution
Hello everyone, I am relatively new to the FreeBSD game and have a bit of a problem which I am not sure how to tackle. I recently build a server running VMWare ESX Server 3 which will eventually run 6-7 small production VM's. These Virtual Machines obviously have the need for backups and it poses quite a problem for me unless I connect 6-7 external tape drives and give each VM it's own tape device. I have looked into a few solutions using VM products (consolidated backup) but it can only be done if you utilise a SAN. The server is running RAID 5 with around 700GB of space. Each VM may take up to 50GB and backups might be around 15-20GB per VM. The machine itself has an internal LTO3 tape drive, has anyone come across this kind of situation before, and if so what would be a good way to backup each VM? It is easy enough to backup the image files from the host machine but I need file level backups within each VM also. I will be very grateful for suggestions or ways people have tackled this kind of problem in a production environment. Thanks. Regards, Terry http://www.sucked-in.com Have you been sucked in? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backup Solution
On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 10:40:52AM +1000, Terry Sposato wrote: I will be very grateful for suggestions or ways people have tackled this kind of problem in a production environment. I'd use a separate machine with a set of cheap SATA disks and connect my tape drives to this machine. Then I would mirror the data from the virtual machines to this backup server with rsync and write them to tape. This would be a quick solution and has worked well for me in the past. If you need more features and have some spare time you should have a look at amanda or bacula. http://www.amanda.org/ http://www.bacula.org/ Uwe ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backup solution for home FreeBSD server
Robert Huff wrote: I'm looking for an external backup solution for my FreeBSD file server. I want it to be pluggable via USB interface (I'd share it with a couple of servers). I'd also like to be able to move backups to an off-site storage, so external HDD won't probably work for me. My data size is currently about 50G, but I expect it to grow to about 250G. My price range is below $300. Suggestions? Check out Addonics, particularly the Saturn system. I have one of these: http://www.addonics.com/products/Saturn/aeschd.asp Yep, this looks interesting. However, can you say if there is any significant advantage of this Saturn enclosures over standard ones, besides the cyphering feature? Thanks! -- Vlad Skvortsov, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://vss.73rus.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backup solution for home FreeBSD server
On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 11:06:44PM -0700, Vlad Skvortsov wrote: Robert Huff wrote: I'm looking for an external backup solution for my FreeBSD file server. I want it to be pluggable via USB interface (I'd share it with a couple of servers). I'd also like to be able to move backups to an off-site storage, so external HDD won't probably work for me. My data size is currently about 50G, but I expect it to grow to about 250G. My price range is below $300. Suggestions? Check out Addonics, particularly the Saturn system. I have one of these: http://www.addonics.com/products/Saturn/aeschd.asp Yep, this looks interesting. However, can you say if there is any significant advantage of this Saturn enclosures over standard ones, besides the cyphering feature? If you want encryption, you can use geli(8). This encrypts the raw disk with AES. I'm using it with my USB backup disk. Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpkwDV5uuBm5.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: backup solution for home FreeBSD server
Roland Smith wrote: http://www.addonics.com/products/Saturn/aeschd.asp Yep, this looks interesting. However, can you say if there is any significant advantage of this Saturn enclosures over standard ones, besides the cyphering feature? If you want encryption, you can use geli(8). This encrypts the raw disk with AES. I'm using it with my USB backup disk. Yes, I'm aware of that. I guess my question was: why did you refer to this particular enclosure? Or you just happen to have this one and this is the reason? -- Vlad Skvortsov, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://vss.73rus.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backup solution for home FreeBSD server
Robert Huff wrote: Check out Addonics, particularly the Saturn system. I have one of these: http://www.addonics.com/products/Saturn/aeschd.asp I recommend against buying anything from a company which (a) uses DES, (b) describes it as bullet proof protection, or (c) doesn't explain how they're using it (there are several methods for performing full disk encryption using a block cipher; some are better than others). Colin Percival ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backup solution for home FreeBSD server
John Levine wrote: I'm looking for an external backup solution for my FreeBSD file server. I want it to be pluggable via USB interface (I'd share it with a couple of servers). I'd also like to be able to move backups to an off-site storage, so external HDD won't probably work for me. My data size is currently about 50G, but I expect it to grow to about 250G. My price range is below $300. Get a couple of 150G USB disks. They work great, you can use dump/restore or just pax -r -w to copy stuff to the disks. I'm a big fan of offsite storage, so I actually have three USB disks. I leave two plugged into the computer so it can dump on alternate nights, and put one in my bank safe deposit box. Every week or so I take one of the two disks down to the bank and swap. R's, John Have you also considered tape backup as well as standard disks? Tapes are a bit more expensive, but overall a more static backup / archiving solution than disks. Besides, they're cheaper in the long run from what remember. Cheers, -Garrett ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backup solution for home FreeBSD server
Vlad Skvortsov writes: http://www.addonics.com/products/Saturn/aeschd.asp Yes, I'm aware of that. I guess my question was: why did you refer to this particular enclosure? Or you just happen to have this one and this is the reason? I happen to have this one; it's possible, even likely, similar products are made by others. (As there is no standard nomenclature, finding them by, say, Google was more work than I was willing to do,) And the answer to: can you say if there is any significant advantage of this Saturn enclosures over standard ones, besides the cyphering feature? would be No.. Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backup solution for home FreeBSD server
Garrett Cooper writes: Have you also considered tape backup as well as standard disks? Tapes are a bit more expensive, but overall a more static backup / archiving solution than disks. Besides, they're cheaper in the long run from what remember. The problem is: tapes are slow; backing up 30 gbytes to a DLT-III used to take 3-4 hours. Or rather the cost of a tape system seems to increase as the square of the transfer speed; a (new) LTO-2 drive will cost $1000+$35/tape. Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backup solution for home FreeBSD server
On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 09:12:11AM -0400, Robert Huff wrote: Garrett Cooper writes: Have you also considered tape backup as well as standard disks? Tapes are a bit more expensive, but overall a more static backup / archiving solution than disks. Besides, they're cheaper in the long run from what remember. The problem is: tapes are slow; backing up 30 gbytes to a DLT-III used to take 3-4 hours. Or rather the cost of a tape system seems to increase as the square of the transfer speed; a (new) LTO-2 drive will cost $1000+$35/tape. LTO is pretty fast, though it doesn't seem to have the fast search that was about the only thing I liked about DAT/DDS tape. But the cost of LTO for a home system is hard to swallow. You could get about a dozen USB drives to rotate for a similar cost. Tapes are nice for archiving or long term storage though. Their data format seems less likely to change over time than disk. jerry Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backup solution for home FreeBSD server
Get a couple of 150G USB disks. They work great, you can use dump/restore or just pax -r -w to copy stuff to the disks. Have you also considered tape backup as well as standard disks? I used to use DLT tapes, and I looked at AIT before I decided on disks. The disks have a couple of advantages that would be hard to match with tape. One is that the backups are completely unattended; I have two USB drives plugged in at a time, and some little scripts wake up each night, figure out which disk has the least recent backups, delete enough old stuff to make room for a new backup, and then use pax -r -w to make the backup from each of the computers on my LAN. The only manual work I need to do is to swap a drive with the one in my safe deposit box once a week. Also, since they're disks, getting files back from a backup is a snap, just cp them from the most recent backup copy. The three disks together cost under $500, and if I need more backup space, I can just buy some more larger ones. To get approximately the same unattended backups I have with my USB disks I would need an AIT jukebox for about $4000. Getting files back would be much more painful, since I would have to spin through an entire dump or cpio image to find a file. Tapes make sense if you have a vast amount of data, multiple terabytes. You need a lot of terabytes before the cheaper media makes up for the much more expensive drives, and it's still nowhere near as convenient as disks. R's, John ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
backup solution for home FreeBSD server
[please CC: me, I'm not on the list] Hi! I'm looking for an external backup solution for my FreeBSD file server. I want it to be pluggable via USB interface (I'd share it with a couple of servers). I'd also like to be able to move backups to an off-site storage, so external HDD won't probably work for me. My data size is currently about 50G, but I expect it to grow to about 250G. My price range is below $300. Suggestions? Thanks! -- Vlad Skvortsov, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://vss.73rus.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
backup solution for home FreeBSD server
Vlad Skvortsov writes: I'm looking for an external backup solution for my FreeBSD file server. I want it to be pluggable via USB interface (I'd share it with a couple of servers). I'd also like to be able to move backups to an off-site storage, so external HDD won't probably work for me. My data size is currently about 50G, but I expect it to grow to about 250G. My price range is below $300. Suggestions? Check out Addonics, particularly the Saturn system. I have one of these: http://www.addonics.com/products/Saturn/aeschd.asp and it's worked just fine - with one exception - for the last several months. The exception is transfer speed: for reasons confounding diagnosis, I am only getting ~2mbytes/sec across a USB 2.0 connection. Now if I could only find a source for inexpensive ($20) 80 Gbyte IDE hard drives Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backup solution for home FreeBSD server
I'm looking for an external backup solution for my FreeBSD file server. I want it to be pluggable via USB interface (I'd share it with a couple of servers). I'd also like to be able to move backups to an off-site storage, so external HDD won't probably work for me. My data size is currently about 50G, but I expect it to grow to about 250G. My price range is below $300. Get a couple of 150G USB disks. They work great, you can use dump/restore or just pax -r -w to copy stuff to the disks. I'm a big fan of offsite storage, so I actually have three USB disks. I leave two plugged into the computer so it can dump on alternate nights, and put one in my bank safe deposit box. Every week or so I take one of the two disks down to the bank and swap. R's, John ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backup solution
On Sat, Feb 10, 2007 at 10:26:28AM -0800, Dino Vliet wrote: I'm busy preparing my via c3 system to utilize it as a backup file server. On the motherboard I have two IDE channels and currenntly they have installed a IDE hard disk and a dvd-rom. However, I have bought an extra IDE cable where I will put two IDE hard disks in a master-slave or cable select relation and put that on one of the IDE banks. The other IDE bank I will use to put the primary disk and the dvd-rom in a master-slave or cable-select relation. Then I will install freebsd on the first disk and will use the two spare IDE-disks on the same cable as a geom-mirror. Just be sure that your PSU can carry the additional load! You probably don't want to run all this off a small 100 Watt PSU. ;-) I will use the system then as a central node with rsync to do daily backups of my main data that is scattered around on different desktops on my lan. Does anyone have tips regarding this kind o installation? Do I also need a specialised tool like bacula for the way I want to use it? Brgds Dino Regards, -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
backup solution
Hi peeps, I'm busy preparing my via c3 system to utilize it as a backup file server. On the motherboard I have two IDE channels and currenntly they have installed a IDE hard disk and a dvd-rom. However, I have bought an extra IDE cable where I will put two IDE hard disks in a master-slave or cable select relation and put that on one of the IDE banks. The other IDE bank I will use to put the primary disk and the dvd-rom in a master-slave or cable-select relation. Then I will install freebsd on the first disk and will use the two spare IDE-disks on the same cable as a geom-mirror. I will use the system then as a central node with rsync to do daily backups of my main data that is scattered around on different desktops on my lan. Does anyone have tips regarding this kind o installation? Do I also need a specialised tool like bacula for the way I want to use it? Brgds Dino Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backup solution
O/H Dino Vliet έγραψε: Hi peeps, I'm busy preparing my via c3 system to utilize it as a backup file server. ...snip I will use the system then as a central node with rsync to do daily backups of my main data that is scattered around on different desktops on my lan. Are those desktops using windows only? If yes then you could enable samba on your backup server and map network drives for everyone to use as backup. Don't forget to enable SWAT in /etc/inetd.conf, it will help a lot in configuration. -- RTFM and STFW before anything bad happens - Thanasis Rizoulis Electronic Computing Systems Engineer Larissa, Greece Linux User #358384 FreeBSD/PCBSD user ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backup solution
Dino Vliet wrote: [ ... ] Then I will install freebsd on the first disk and will use the two spare IDE-disks on the same cable as a geom-mirror. I will use the system then as a central node with rsync to do daily backups of my main data that is scattered around on different desktops on my lan. Does anyone have tips regarding this kind of installation? Please be aware that the ATA implementation of the VIA EPIA chipset isn't the greatest, especially when both are active at the same time. I've seen drive performance drop towards 5MB/s for WDC600/WDC800/WDC1200-grade drives which normally run at 40MB/s if you do something on the other channel as well. Do I also need a specialised tool like bacula for the way I want to use it? If you just want to have a hot-standby for a bunch of files, using rsync is fine. Using fancier backup schemes tends to make sense when using external/replaceable media like tapes or I suppose CD-R/DVD-R, rather than just with a plain set of disks. -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backup solution
Then I will install freebsd on the first disk and will use the two spare IDE-disks on the same cable as a geom-mirror. ... Please be aware that the ATA implementation of the VIA EPIA chipset isn't the greatest, especially when both are active at the same time. I've seen drive performance drop towards 5MB/s for WDC600/WDC800/WDC1200-grade drives which normally run at 40MB/s if you do something on the other channel as well. Dunno about that chipset in particular; some will perform much better with concurrent operations split across the two channels than on the same channel. You might be better off to have root and one of the mirror disks on ide0 and the other mirror disk on ide1 with the DVD. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mail backup solution?
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:38:47 -0500 Mike Jeays [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: re. server side backup, a) if you can't have shell access to the box, rsync is kind of out of the question b) If your mail is hosted alongside your website, which is managed by one of the many control panels (cpanel, plesk, ensim), you should be able to generate a backup via the control panel interface. YMMV c) Do a backup from your local copy (after doing a download all msgs, which should still leave the mails in the server) - see below for how I do it d) Perl + some IMAP module to download each email and back it up? I dont see how this would be any better than c) really. Using Evolution, I made a tar backup of the .evolution directory, and copied it to another machine. It came nowhere close to working properly, maybe your local copy of emails (aka imapcache) is located elsewhere?) and was about as annoying to work with as Outlook those that try to imitate a product will probably suffer some of the same issues, imho . It behaved just like a proprietary product with mysterious file formats, even though the mailbox files themselves seem to be clean mboxes. It must keep configuration data hidden somewhere else. I am pretty well fed up with the product, and may switch to Thunderbird. interestingly enough, I recently switched from Thunderbird to sylpheed-claws. I know it's probably not so active, but it seems a lot more powerful, and it supports MH (working on getting the Maildir plugin to compile properly). It (sylpheed-claws) reminds me of good old XFMail, which I had used for a long while before Thunderb. FWIW, I have 9 email accounts (a few with different identities). Work related email is from an Exchange server - I tried Evolution + its exchange plugin and it just wouldnt work, so I moved on. Anyway, Work's IMAP cache is a symlink to a subdir in my GELI disk (this is a laptop after all). Work's local copies are also in the GELI disk. For backing up on the client side, I simply rsync to another box my ~/.sylpheed-claws, my GELI md device and the tar ball of the local copy my non-work emails (faster than transferring thousands of individual mails - MH format...). This is part of my laptop backup script (could be using dump, but i only need a small portion of the filesystem... setting nodump in most of the box is rather silly) Or have I failed to understand something? maybe u should start by reading the config file and following through with each path mentioned,etc... it worked for me (tm) for Thunderbird, (FFox) and sylpheed good luck, Beto ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mail backup solution?
Hello, I have my email stored at a reseller account (via imap) on a server. My intention is that my server at home, download all the emails via imap to backup automatically everyday. But, I dont want that my server download repeated messages (because i have thousands of emails...). Someone has a solution? Best Regards, Carlos Silva, http://www.yourdot-services.com/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mail backup solution?
Hello, I have my email stored at a reseller account (via imap) on a server. My intention is that my server at home, download all the emails via imap to backup automatically everyday. But, I dont want that my server download repeated messages (because i have thousands of emails...). Someone has a solution? Best Regards, Carlos Silva, http://www.yourdot-services.com/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mail backup solution?
On 3/13/06, Carlos Silva, yourdot-internet.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I have my email stored at a reseller account (via imap) on a server. My intention is that my server at home, download all the emails via imap to backup automatically everyday. But, I dont want that my server download repeated messages (because i have thousands of emails...). Someone has a solution? Is rsync to hackish for this use? -- -- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mail backup solution?
hello, i really dont think so :( regards, carlos silva [1]www.yourdot-services.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu: On 3/13/06, Carlos Silva, yourdot-internet.com [3][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I have my email stored at a reseller account (via imap) on a server. My intention is that my server at home, download all the emails via imap to backup automatically everyday. But, I dont want that my server download repeated messages (because i have thousands of emails...). Someone has a solution? Is rsync to hackish for this use? -- -- ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list [5]http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [6][EMAIL PROTECTED] References 1. http://www.yourdot-services.com/ 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 4. mailto:freebsd-questions@freebsd.org 5. http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions 6. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mail backup solution?
Carlos Silva, yourdot-internet.com wrote: I have my email stored at a reseller account (via imap) on a server. My intention is that my server at home, download all the emails via imap to backup automatically everyday. But, I dont want that my server download repeated messages (because i have thousands of emails...). Someone has a solution? Your mail hosting provider should have working backups, although it is worth checking. Anyway, if you use IMAP to download the mailboxes, your locally cached copy of that information on a client machine could be backed up as well. It's not as useful as backing things up at the server side, but it would ensure that you still have copies of the important mail. Otherwise, simply export your mailboxes to a mbox file once a week or once a month or so and archive that separately. -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mail backup solution?
Hi Carlos! Carlos Silva, yourdot-internet.com wrote on 13-03-2006 9:20: I have my email stored at a reseller account (via imap) on a server. My intention is that my server at home, download all the emails via imap to backup automatically everyday. But, I dont want that my server download repeated messages (because i have thousands of emails...). Depending on what you *exactly* want, you may want to try imapsync (/usr/ports/mail/imapsync) or fetchmail (/usr/ports/mail/fetchmail) Gr, Nils ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mail backup solution?
On 3/13/06, Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Carlos Silva, yourdot-internet.com wrote: I have my email stored at a reseller account (via imap) on a server. My intention is that my server at home, download all the emails via imap to backup automatically everyday. But, I dont want that my server download repeated messages (because i have thousands of emails...). Someone has a solution? Your mail hosting provider should have working backups, although it is worth checking. I have a server running postfix/courier-imap, and I'd like to know how to make those working backups. I've asked a couple places but haven't found anything useful. Pat ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mail backup solution?
Pat Maddox wrote: On 3/13/06, Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ ... ] Your mail hosting provider should have working backups, although it is worth checking. I have a server running postfix/courier-imap, and I'd like to know how to make those working backups. I've asked a couple places but haven't found anything useful. The two most common styles of mailboxes are mbox and maildir, and both of those can be backed up at the filesystem level using dump, tar, or anything else. People using Exchange or Lotus Notes or something else which has a proprietary backend database require special software to generate usable backups, but what else would you expect? -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mail backup solution?
On 3/13/06, Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pat Maddox wrote: On 3/13/06, Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ ... ] Your mail hosting provider should have working backups, although it is worth checking. I have a server running postfix/courier-imap, and I'd like to know how to make those working backups. I've asked a couple places but haven't found anything useful. The two most common styles of mailboxes are mbox and maildir, and both of those can be backed up at the filesystem level using dump, tar, or anything else. I've got it set up using maildir. In the past to back up the mail I just copied the files. At one point I had to restore from the backup, so I just copied the files back into the original location. Logging in via imap though, there were no emails to be found. I've gotten vague I think you just copy the files responses, but that didn't work in my case, and I'm not sure what I need to do. Pat ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mail backup solution?
Pat Maddox wrote: On 3/13/06, Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ ... ] The two most common styles of mailboxes are mbox and maildir, and both of those can be backed up at the filesystem level using dump, tar, or anything else. I've got it set up using maildir. In the past to back up the mail I just copied the files. At one point I had to restore from the backup, so I just copied the files back into the original location. Logging in via imap though, there were no emails to be found. I've gotten vague I think you just copy the files responses, but that didn't work in my case, and I'm not sure what I need to do. Did you take a look at an actual mailbox file and confirm that it contained the messages you expected? Did you restart the IMAP daemon after doing the restore? -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mail backup solution?
On Mon, 2006-03-13 at 09:28 -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: Pat Maddox wrote: On 3/13/06, Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ ... ] The two most common styles of mailboxes are mbox and maildir, and both of those can be backed up at the filesystem level using dump, tar, or anything else. I've got it set up using maildir. In the past to back up the mail I just copied the files. At one point I had to restore from the backup, so I just copied the files back into the original location. Logging in via imap though, there were no emails to be found. I've gotten vague I think you just copy the files responses, but that didn't work in my case, and I'm not sure what I need to do. Did you take a look at an actual mailbox file and confirm that it contained the messages you expected? Did you restart the IMAP daemon after doing the restore? Using Evolution, I made a tar backup of the .evolution directory, and copied it to another machine. It came nowhere close to working properly, and was about as annoying to work with as Outlook. It behaved just like a proprietary product with mysterious file formats, even though the mailbox files themselves seem to be clean mboxes. It must keep configuration data hidden somewhere else. I am pretty well fed up with the product, and may switch to Thunderbird. Or have I failed to understand something? -- Mike Jeays http://ca.geocities.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mail backup solution?
On Monday 13 March 2006 09:24, Pat Maddox wrote: On 3/13/06, Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pat Maddox wrote: On 3/13/06, Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ ... ] Your mail hosting provider should have working backups, although it is worth checking. I have a server running postfix/courier-imap, and I'd like to know how to make those working backups. I've asked a couple places but haven't found anything useful. The two most common styles of mailboxes are mbox and maildir, and both of those can be backed up at the filesystem level using dump, tar, or anything else. I've got it set up using maildir. In the past to back up the mail I just copied the files. At one point I had to restore from the backup, so I just copied the files back into the original location. Logging in via imap though, there were no emails to be found. I've gotten vague I think you just copy the files responses, but that didn't work in my case, and I'm not sure what I need to do. I don't know how it is with courier, but when you restore from a backup using cyrus you have to run /usr/local/cyrus/bin/reconstruct so the message index is rebuilt and the messages show up. I'd imagine there is something similar for courier. -- Anish Mistry pgph9DmLIhzj3.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: mail backup solution?
On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 08:20:09AM +, Carlos Silva, yourdot-internet.com wrote: I have my email stored at a reseller account (via imap) on a server. My intention is that my server at home, download all the emails via imap to backup automatically everyday. But, I dont want that my server download repeated messages (because i have thousands of emails...). Someone has a solution? Sure: /usr/ports/mail/offlineimap But there's one caveat though! offlineimap does a symmetric synchronization between both sides. If you play around with your local copy, and delete some messages there, offlinemap will also delete the corresponding messages on your ISPs IMAP server (unless you delete the metadata before), which may not exactly be what you want. I've been there the first time and I've been bitten by this once... but I'm using this now for regular backups and sychronizations between multiple IMAP hosts, both mobile and fixed. Good luck! Best Regards, Carlos Silva, http://www.yourdot-services.com/ Regards, -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Quick, simple backup solution
Lowell, Great Site!! Thanks... http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/systuff On 23 Dec 2005 15:29:41 -0500, Lowell Gilbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am looking for a quick backup solution for my freebsd machine. Currently I backup to a DDS-4 DAT drive using the following while in /: tar -cf /dev/sa0 -I /root/includes -X /root/excludes . I am aware of bacula, Amanda, cpio, and dump but to me tar is the ideal method so if anyone had a simple script to automate this process I would greatly appreciate some help in making my own. Since we have no idea *why* you consider tar ideal, we can't really tell what would help your particular needs. On my page of FreeBSD tricks (http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/systuff/), I have a brief essay on what to consider when designing a backup strategy (http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/systuff/backup-strategy.txt), as well as some script I use for backups via both tar and dump (http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/systuff/scripts/systemTarBackup and http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/systuff/scripts/systemDumpBackup). Make what you can out of these hints. Be well. -- Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Quick, simple backup solution
What is wrong with this? I prefer the KISS principle with backups too. If your entire system fits on a DDS4 tape then what is wrong with this? Just put the statement in /etc/crontab and remember to change tapes. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Joe Wood Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:16 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Quick, simple backup solution I am looking for a quick backup solution for my freebsd machine. Currently I backup to a DDS-4 DAT drive using the following while in /: tar -zpcvf /dev/sa0 . I am aware of bacula, Amanda, cpio, and dump but to me tar is the ideal method so if anyone had a simple script to automate this process I would greatly appreciate some help in making my own. Thanks again, you guys are great!! Joe ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quick, simple backup solution
I am looking for a quick backup solution for my freebsd machine. Currently I backup to a DDS-4 DAT drive using the following while in /: tar -zpcvf /dev/sa0 . I am aware of bacula, Amanda, cpio, and dump but to me tar is the ideal method so if anyone had a simple script to automate this process I would greatly appreciate some help in making my own. Thanks again, you guys are great!! Joe ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quick, simple backup solution
I am looking for a quick backup solution for my freebsd machine. Currently I backup to a DDS-4 DAT drive using the following while in /: tar -cf /dev/sa0 -I /root/includes -X /root/excludes . I am aware of bacula, Amanda, cpio, and dump but to me tar is the ideal method so if anyone had a simple script to automate this process I would greatly appreciate some help in making my own. Thanks again, you guys are great!! Joe ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Quick, simple backup solution
Joe Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am looking for a quick backup solution for my freebsd machine. Currently I backup to a DDS-4 DAT drive using the following while in /: tar -cf /dev/sa0 -I /root/includes -X /root/excludes . I am aware of bacula, Amanda, cpio, and dump but to me tar is the ideal method so if anyone had a simple script to automate this process I would greatly appreciate some help in making my own. Since we have no idea *why* you consider tar ideal, we can't really tell what would help your particular needs. On my page of FreeBSD tricks (http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/systuff/), I have a brief essay on what to consider when designing a backup strategy (http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/systuff/backup-strategy.txt), as well as some script I use for backups via both tar and dump (http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/systuff/scripts/systemTarBackup and http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/systuff/scripts/systemDumpBackup). Make what you can out of these hints. Be well. -- Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5.3 backup solution needed (non-SCSI)
I finally found the reason my 5.3 machine was randomly rebooting. It is either the scsi HBA and/or the drive. Although the same exact hardware runs any other OS fine :-/ well with that in mind, I am now all IDE and USB capable. No more SCSIso there went my tape backup solution. I need to backup only about 4-5GB at once. My DDS SCSI drive handled that fine... Does anyone know of an IDE based solution -or- a USB backup solution? This is a 1U rack server, so if I used IDE based, I would have to open the machine and jury rigg it any time I needed to backup. I have dual standard USB ports though, on the front of the server. Any ideas will be appreciated ! -JEFF ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 5.3 backup solution needed (non-SCSI)
On Thu, 2005-01-06 at 07:33 -0600, J.D. Bronson wrote: I finally found the reason my 5.3 machine was randomly rebooting. It is either the scsi HBA and/or the drive. Although the same exact hardware runs any other OS fine :-/ well with that in mind, I am now all IDE and USB capable. No more SCSIso there went my tape backup solution. I need to backup only about 4-5GB at once. My DDS SCSI drive handled that fine... Does anyone know of an IDE based solution -or- a USB backup solution? A usb external hard drive? Peter. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 5.3 backup solution needed (non-SCSI)
At 08:32 AM 1/6/2005, Peter Risdon wrote: On Thu, 2005-01-06 at 07:33 -0600, J.D. Bronson wrote: I finally found the reason my 5.3 machine was randomly rebooting. It is either the scsi HBA and/or the drive. Although the same exact hardware runs any other OS fine :-/ well with that in mind, I am now all IDE and USB capable. No more SCSIso there went my tape backup solution. I need to backup only about 4-5GB at once. My DDS SCSI drive handled that fine... Does anyone know of an IDE based solution -or- a USB backup solution? A usb external hard drive? Peter. Thats a great ideaI hadnt thought of that and recovery is MUCH faster. Anyone have any recommendations on a manufacturer and source? I would need 2 of these...since I have 2 servers. Thanks guys! -JEFF ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 5.3 backup solution needed (non-SCSI)
On Thu, 2005-01-06 at 08:36 -0600, J.D. Bronson wrote: At 08:32 AM 1/6/2005, Peter Risdon wrote: On Thu, 2005-01-06 at 07:33 -0600, J.D. Bronson wrote: [...] I need to backup only about 4-5GB at once. My DDS SCSI drive handled that fine... Does anyone know of an IDE based solution -or- a USB backup solution? A usb external hard drive? Peter. Thats a great ideaI hadnt thought of that and recovery is MUCH faster. Anyone have any recommendations on a manufacturer and source? I would need 2 of these...since I have 2 servers. I have a client rotating two Maxtor 250GB usb hard drives. It's all OK after 6 months. Peter. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tape backup solution? [OT]
Hello List, I have a question that's slightly off-topic, but not. I install high-end surveillance equipment for CCTV and such. I have a rather large client in Minneapolis who's using Dedicated Micros digital video recorders. The particular model we're using has a 500 GB hdd, but this client would like to archive images to tape for longer storage. As of now, we're only getting about 2 months of recording time. For off-site viewing, this unit can off-load images to a SCSI cd recorder. Does anyone suggest a tape backup device that would be SCSI and external, with a fairly high-capacity? I'm thinking around 50 GB? TIA -- Eric F Crist AdTech Integrated Systems, Inc (612) 998-3588 ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tape backup solution? [OT]
In the last episode (Dec 31), Eric F Crist said: I have a question that's slightly off-topic, but not. I install high-end surveillance equipment for CCTV and such. I have a rather large client in Minneapolis who's using Dedicated Micros digital video recorders. The particular model we're using has a 500 GB hdd, but this client would like to archive images to tape for longer storage. As of now, we're only getting about 2 months of recording time. For off-site viewing, this unit can off-load images to a SCSI cd recorder. Does anyone suggest a tape backup device that would be SCSI and external, with a fairly high-capacity? I'm thinking around 50 GB? I can't find a good web page to refer you to, but here's a quick summary of what's available. Capacity and transfer rate are native; if your data is 2:1 compressible, double both columns. Drive Capacity Xfer rate (GB) (MB/Sec) DLT 406 sDLT110-300 11-36 LTO 100 15 LTO2200 30 AIT3100 12 SAIT1 500 30 -- Dan Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Incremental backup solution. was: What logs etc do I need tocheckfrequently?
This solution sounds nice, I can even imagine setting up an additional machine (on the same location though) to have a somewhat galvanic isolation between the disks. Only fire, earthquake and a neutronbomb would affect such a backup solution. However, I could use a push in the right direction when it comes to how to configure and what software to use for achieving the incremental backup tasks. Could you hint me in how your system is doing this in a more detailed way? Cheers, Joachim --- | On Sun, 2003-12-28 at 10:27, Robert Huff wrote: | There are systems that will put 160 GB (uncompressed) on a | single tape ... they'll just run you $3000-3500. | If, on the other hand, you think of it as a yearly full dump | (split over multiple tapes) plus monthly incrementals then a DLT | 8000 ($1000 ??) at 40 GB (uncompressed) will do just fine. | | | Robert Huff | | I'd like to throw in my (home) solution here. | | I have had a dedicated file server on my home network for years. It | serves out files to clients on the network via SMB and HTTP. This | machine stores all of my permanent (and not so permanent) data and has | two large identical disks. Only the first is used. The other is used | strictly to back up the information on the first. A cron job runs a | script at 7AM every morning which powers up the backup disk, mounts it, | performs an incremental backup and then powers down the backup disk | again until the next morning. | | The moral: Buy double the amount of disk space that you think you'll | need or settle for half of what you can afford. Then force yourself to | use one half only to back up the other half. Disk-to-disk backup is | probably the best way to go for the home user. It's cheap and it's easy, | but it won't break the bank. Reliability is probably significantly less | than a $3k tape solution, but careful monitoring of the system and quick | response to potential problems can mitigate this to a large degree. | | Pretty soon I plan to move the backup disk to a separate machine on the | network that gets powered up each day by some kind of external timer. | The machine will power up, contact the file server, do an incremental | backup, then shut itself off. This would put me just one step short of a | complete daily off-site backup, all with hardware that is considered by | most to be obsolete. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Incremental backup solution. was: What logs etc do I need tocheckfrequently?
On Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 10:35:49AM +0100, Joachim Dagerot wrote: This solution sounds nice, I can even imagine setting up an additional machine (on the same location though) to have a somewhat galvanic isolation between the disks. Only fire, earthquake and a neutronbomb would affect such a backup solution. Before certain events in New York, we used to talk about hypothetical jumbo jets when considering our disaster plans. Secure off-site backups are a necessity. Take care thought that the off-site location really is secure. I did hear that some of the businesses in the World Trade Center had considered the other tower as a suitable location for their off-site backups. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks Savill Way PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Incremental backup solution. was: What logs etc do I need tocheckfrequently?
| Before certain events in New York, we used to talk about hypothetical | jumbo jets when considering our disaster plans. Secure off-site | backups are a necessity. Take care thought that the off-site location | really is secure. I did hear that some of the businesses in the World | Trade Center had considered the other tower as a suitable location | for their off-site backups. I know a company whom's(?) office burned down to the ground. They where saved by the secretary who forgot to put the backup-tape in the safety box, instead she brought it in her handbag. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Incremental backup solution. was: What logs etc do I need tocheckfrequently?
On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 04:35, Joachim Dagerot wrote: This solution sounds nice, I can even imagine setting up an additional machine (on the same location though) to have a somewhat galvanic isolation between the disks. Only fire, earthquake and a neutronbomb would affect such a backup solution. However, I could use a push in the right direction when it comes to how to configure and what software to use for achieving the incremental backup tasks. Could you hint me in how your system is doing this in a more detailed way? Cheers, Joachim I'd be glad to. First, it's actually a Linux system, though there's nothing particularly Linux-specific about it except the device names and the method of spinning down the backup disk after the job. The cornerstone of the solution is the rdiff-backup program (http://rdiff-backup.stanford.edu/ or in ports at /sysutils/rdiff-backup). rdiff-backup is a python script that mirrors one directory to another. It can do incremental backups and it can do them either locally or remotely. It's really a slick piece of software and I'm continually surprised that it doesn't get more publicity. First, there's the (trivial) script /usr/local/sbin/backup-share.sh. This is run by a daily cron job to backup directories on the disk that contain Important Data. Mine is very specific to my system. It is *not* pretty and I plan to overhaul it sometime soon to include error handling and an external config file. #!/bin/bash # script to automatically back up the important stuff on /nfs/share prog=/usr/local/bin/rdiff-backup src=/nfs/share dst=/backup/share budirs=code emu images media music school software text webpage mount /backup for dir in $budirs do $prog $src/$dir $dst/$dir done umount /backup # put backup drive in sleep mode since we won't be needing # it again for the next 24 hours or so hdparm -qY /dev/hdd A note about the last line: it appears that FreeBSD can only spin-down SCSI disks on command. (See camcontrol(8).) The best way to power down IDE disks seems to be just setting a suspend timeout in the power management section of your BIOS. Once the disk is unmounted, FreeBSD won't touch it thereafter and the system should put it in suspend mode automatically. The crontab entry looks like this: # backup selected dirs in /nfs/share @ 0730 daily 30 07 * * * sh /usr/local/sbin/backup-share.sh That's really about it. Like I said before, moving the backup disk to a separate machine would be trivial. If there are any questions, I'd be glad to answer them. Charles Ulrich -- http://bityard.net ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
good mass storage backup solution
I have been using tapes for yeares, both DDS/dat and AIT style units. This seems the be cheapest solution for high volume backup. But I'm wondering if anyone has any hardware solution that is really a good backup media. I used ORB disks for a while, at 40$ per 2gig disk of DASD style media I thought it was okay (more expensive than tape but I liked direct access style media) Any votes for DASD style systems? Sequential media is still kind of a pain in the rear so I'm looking for suggestions of new/good/innovative technology. tx -- David Bear phone: 480-965-8257 fax:480-965-9189 College of Public Programs/ASU Wilson Hall 232 Tempe, AZ 85287-0803 Beware the IP portfolio, everyone will be suspect of trespassing ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Backup Solution
Hi everyone I am looking for a centralized backup solution for FreeBSD. It must be able to backup to harddrive, rather than to a tape drive, and must have support for FreeBSD/Linux and Windows 2000 clients. Does anyone have any suggestions ? Kind Regards Wayne Swart Network Aministrator MICS Online TEL: +2712 661 FAX: +2712 661 9996 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. --Mahatma Gandhi To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Backup Solution
At 2003-03-11T09:36:24Z, Kevin Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It must be able to backup to harddrive, rather than to a tape drive, and must have support for FreeBSD/Linux and Windows 2000 clients. /usr/ports/misc/amanda-server /usr/ports/misc/amanda-client I wasn't aware that the version in ports supported backup-to-disk in any meaningful way. Am I wrong? -- Kirk Strauser In Googlis non est, ergo non est. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Backup Solution
On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 07:45 pm, Wayne Swart wrote: Hi everyone I am looking for a centralized backup solution for FreeBSD. It must be able to backup to harddrive, rather than to a tape drive, and must have support for FreeBSD/Linux and Windows 2000 clients. bu (in ports) looks good -- Regards, Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
