Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Arkady V.Belousov]

Hi!

22-Сен-2005 09:25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brolin Empey) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

>>  No, error message says parsing error, not read error. For me, there
>> looks like broken memory contents.
BE> The line in question is indeed syntactically correct.

 Yes, I see.

BE> The error message is caused by a read error because

 Again: this error message indicates error in parsing. Because line in
quesion is correct, then error is in broken memory (for example, some wring
code incorrectly writes to wrong memory places).




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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Brolin Empey]

Arkady V.Belousov wrote:

Hi!

22-Сен-2005 02:07 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bernd Blaauw) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

BB> it sounds like VDS again to me. That has the effect that no more can be
BB> read from harddisk,
BB> which would explain the error about the cdromdrive, which seems like
BB> perfectly fine syntax
BB> (yes, config.sys is buffered first by kernel)

 No, error message says parsing error, not read error. For me, there
looks like broken memory contents.



The line in question is indeed syntactically correct.

The error message is caused by a read error because (1) everything works 
fine when using either EMM386 v2.04 or EMM386 v2.05 with VDS disabled 
(NOVDS parameter); (2) the kernel cannot read the command interpreter 
from the disk; (3) the kernel cannot read any file specified when it 
asks for the full path to the command interpreter to use.


Of course, it would make much more sense if the kernel could report that 
it was unable to read the specified file from the disk instead of 
reporting parsing errors on lines which are perfectly valid.



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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Arkady V.Belousov]

Hi!

22-Сен-2005 02:07 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bernd Blaauw) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

BB> it sounds like VDS again to me. That has the effect that no more can be
BB> read from harddisk,
BB> which would explain the error about the cdromdrive, which seems like
BB> perfectly fine syntax
BB> (yes, config.sys is buffered first by kernel)

 No, error message says parsing error, not read error. For me, there
looks like broken memory contents.




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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Arkady V.Belousov]

Hi!

21-Сен-2005 16:42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brolin Empey) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

BE> CONFIG.SYS* error in line 26**
 12?DEVICEhigh=C:\FDOS\bin\vide-cdd.sys /D:vide
BE>  ^
BE> * this is wrong: FDCONFIG.SYS is being parsed, *not* CONFIG.SYS!
BE> ** this too is wrong: 26 is zero-based; the "error" is really on line 27

 I was fix both things in my config.c, but don't know, if Jeremy import
it completely.




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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Michael Devore]

At 08:05 PM 9/21/2005 -0500, I wrote:


At 05:48 PM 9/21/2005 -0700, Blair Campbell wrote:

I think that it'd be really nice to have a utility to detect the
instances where VDS would fail because then distros like mine can add
the NOVDS option in the installed config.sys and a user could save
much trouble by not having to boot without EMM386 and edit config.sys.


If I could detect when VDS would fail, I could make it not do so, with a 
high likelihood of success, depending on severity of the conflict.  HOW to 
detect when VDS is in conflict is the $64,000 question.  Without MS-style 
resources to acquire 100's of different test machines, we're kind of stuck.


Given the three VDS problem reports, I've added a basic VDS filter to 
EMM386, such that reserved but unused VDS functions aren't processed with 
failure return code, but passed on to the default interrupt, in the hope 
that they're really SCSI functions to be sent on down the line.  I'll post 
it as a version 2.06 in a day or two.


No idea whether it will make a difference, but the two diametrically 
opposed camps of "fail if UMBs and VDS off" versus "fail if VDS on and 
using certain SCSI drives" issue has got to be addressed.





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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Brolin Empey]

Michael Devore wrote:

At 04:42 PM 9/21/2005 -0700, Brolin Empey wrote:


FastTracker 2.08 runs fine for me under latest HIMEM and EMM386.
PKUNZIP failing unless the NOEMS option is specified, now that's a 
problem I'm working on.



EMM386 v2.05 breaks my FDCONFIG.SYS! When booting, I get the following 
output:



FreeDOS HIMEM64 3.11...
HIMEM - KBC A20 method used
EMM386 2.05...
CONFIG.SYS* error in line 26**
>>>12?DEVICEhigh=C:\FDOS\bin\vide-cdd.sys /D:vide



EMM386 isn't involved in parsing CONFIG.SYS at all, but you can try the 
emmflesh.zip update if you want to see about the latest.




The problem is now solved. :) I tried the latest EMM386, but could only 
boot by using the NOVDS parameter. Of course, this is no use when it 
comes to running FastTracker II since FT2 refuses to run, saying that 
"The memory manager does not support Virtual DMA Specification at 
:". It never occurred to me until now to try booting *without* 
EMM386, so I tried this next. FT2 now seems to work fine, at least for 
long enough to play back a couple of tracks on the PC speaker. 
Relatively simple songs actually sound quite good on the speaker. :)



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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Michael Devore]

At 05:48 PM 9/21/2005 -0700, Blair Campbell wrote:


> it sounds like VDS again to me. That has the effect that no

I think that it'd be really nice to have a utility to detect the
instances where VDS would fail because then distros like mine can add
the NOVDS option in the installed config.sys and a user could save
much trouble by not having to boot without EMM386 and edit config.sys.


If I could detect when VDS would fail, I could make it not do so, with a 
high likelihood of success, depending on severity of the conflict.  HOW to 
detect when VDS is in conflict is the $64,000 question.  Without MS-style 
resources to acquire 100's of different test machines, we're kind of stuck.





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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Blair Campbell]

> it sounds like VDS again to me. That has the effect that no

I think that it'd be really nice to have a utility to detect the
instances where VDS would fail because then distros like mine can add
the NOVDS option in the installed config.sys and a user could save
much trouble by not having to boot without EMM386 and edit config.sys.


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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Bernd Blaauw]

Michael Devore schreef:

EMM386 isn't involved in parsing CONFIG.SYS at all, but you can try 
the emmflesh.zip update if you want to see about the latest.


it sounds like VDS again to me. That has the effect that no more can be 
read from harddisk,
which would explain the error about the cdromdrive, which seems like 
perfectly fine syntax

(yes, config.sys is buffered first by kernel)

try updating EMM386 first to the version that Michael mentions (see this 
mailinglist),

then try adding NOVDS

if all fails, try loading UDMA2.SYS after HIMEM but before EMM386

I'm too tired now to confirm the issue, will try to do so tomorrow.

Bernd



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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Michael Devore]

At 04:42 PM 9/21/2005 -0700, Brolin Empey wrote:


FastTracker 2.08 runs fine for me under latest HIMEM and EMM386.
PKUNZIP failing unless the NOEMS option is specified, now that's a 
problem I'm working on.


EMM386 v2.05 breaks my FDCONFIG.SYS! When booting, I get the following output:


FreeDOS HIMEM64 3.11...
HIMEM - KBC A20 method used
EMM386 2.05...
CONFIG.SYS* error in line 26**
>>>12?DEVICEhigh=C:\FDOS\bin\vide-cdd.sys /D:vide


EMM386 isn't involved in parsing CONFIG.SYS at all, but you can try the 
emmflesh.zip update if you want to see about the latest.





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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Brolin Empey]

Michael Devore wrote:

At 05:05 PM 9/19/2005 -0700, Brolin wrote:

Firstly, I have not tested this new release. That said, what is the 
status with regards to having FastTracker II working on FreeDOS?



FastTracker 2.08 runs fine for me under latest HIMEM and EMM386.

PKUNZIP failing unless the NOEMS option is specified, now that's a 
problem I'm working on.





EMM386 v2.05 breaks my FDCONFIG.SYS! When booting, I get the following 
output:



FreeDOS HIMEM64 3.11...
HIMEM - KBC A20 method used
EMM386 2.05...
CONFIG.SYS* error in line 26**
>>>12?DEVICEhigh=C:\FDOS\bin\vide-cdd.sys /D:vide
^
Kernel: allocated 37 diskbuffers = 19684 bytes in HMA
Bad or missing command interpreter: 12?SHELL=D:\Programs\4DOS\4DOS.COM 
D:\Programs\4DOS /PC:\FDOS\fdauto.bat

Enter the full shell command line: _


* this is wrong: FDCONFIG.SYS is being parsed, *not* CONFIG.SYS!
** this too is wrong: 26 is zero-based; the "error" is really on line 27

Even if I enter the full path to FreeCOM or 4DOS, I simply get this 
prompt for the command interpreter again.


If I revert to using EMM386 v2.04, everything works fine.

Here are the contents of my FDCONFIG.SYS:
(the menu names/labels don't mean much since I never bothered to change 
them from the (FD)CONFIG.SYS included with the Beta 9 SR1 CD release.)



!COUNTRY=046,850,C:\FDOS\BIN\COUNTRY.SYS
!SET lang=EN
;for help on commands, see file config.sys in your FreeDOS directory
;www.benq.com/ss_download/drivers/storage/cd-rom/drivers/dos/apicd214.exe
;DOS=HIGH is still buggy (try running HELP), as is CDROM-driver. (see 
website)

!BREAK=ON
!LASTDRIVE=Z
!BUFFERS=20
!FILES=60
!DOS=HIGH,UMB
!DOSDATA=UMB
!set dircmd=/oge /4
!MENUCOLOR=10,1
MENUDEFAULT=1,5
MENU 1 - Load FreeDOS with maximum RAM free, using EMM386
MENU 2 - Load FreeDOS including HIMEM XMS-memory driver
MENU 3 - Load FreeDOS without drivers
;1?DOS=HIGH
12?DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\HIMEM.EXE
;/verbose
1?DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\EMM386.EXE RAM X=TEST SB
;1?DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\EMM386.EXE
;/verbose
;1?DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\XDMA.SYS
;DEVICE=d:\programs\dev\386swat\386SWAT.LOD altscr dvga
;12?DEVICEhigh=C:\FDOS\bin\liteon.sys /D:liteon /DMA
12?DEVICEhigh=C:\FDOS\bin\vide-cdd.sys /D:vide
12?SHELL=D:\Programs\4DOS\4DOS.COM D:\Programs\4DOS /PC:\FDOS\fdauto.bat
3?SHELL=D:\Programs\4DOS\4DOS.COM D:\Programs\4DOS /PC:\FDOS\setenv.bat
;12?SHELL=C:\fdos\COMMAND.COM C:\ /E:8192 /P=C:\FDOS\fdauto.bat
;3?SHELL=C:\fdos\COMMAND.COM C:\ /E:8192 /D /K set path=C:\FDOS\bin



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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Florian Xaver]

Michael, thanks again for this wonderful driver!

Bye, Flo


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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Michael Devore]

At 05:05 PM 9/19/2005 -0700, Brolin wrote:

Firstly, I have not tested this new release. That said, what is the status 
with regards to having FastTracker II working on FreeDOS?


FastTracker 2.08 runs fine for me under latest HIMEM and EMM386.

PKUNZIP failing unless the NOEMS option is specified, now that's a problem 
I'm working on.





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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Gerry Hickman]

Hi Michael,

Nope, there are documented instances of SCSI drivers being incompatible 
with VDS.


Sure, but as I understand it, this VDS problem will occurr even when 
there's NO driver loaded (e.g. pure INT13)?


In those cases, they share the same interrupt and potentially 
the same register values which VDS uses to determine its functions


OK, is this related?



If it's about busmastering and IDE, it's hardly surprising it doesn't 
work with SCSI (kind of not needed). If it's about something else...


and 
what to do.  Obviously if SCSI wants to read a disk sector and VDS 
thinks you want to check for contiguous memory amounts, something is 
going to wind up very unhappy.


Right. I'm wondering how they used to manage with Adaptec and DOS in the 
early days - maybe they used to just disable VDS? Maybe that's the 
correct thing to do when using SCSI?


Oh, 3.5) I was bored and it was a mild diversion.  And, 3.75) It gave me 
an excuse to start working with Perl and Cygwin-based utils a bit more


Excellent idea!

--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)


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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Michael Devore]

At 05:05 PM 9/19/2005 -0700, Brolin  wrote:

Firstly, I have not tested this new release. That said, what is the status 
with regards to having FastTracker II working on FreeDOS? My FreeDOS 
installation consists mainly of what was distributed with the Beta9 SR1 
CD, so some of the components may be fairly old.


If you're asking me personally, I don't have a clue.  If you're asking the 
list, hopefully someone will have the answer.


Should FastTracker work without EMM386 loaded and NOT work with EMM386 
loaded as the ONLY difference, it may be a compatibility problem with 
EMM386, otherwise not very likely to be related to it.





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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Brolin]

Michael Devore wrote:
Uploaded to ftp://ftp.devoresoftware.com/downloads/emm386 are the files 
emmx205.zip, EMM386/HIMEM mostly executable package, and emms205.zip, 
EMM386/HIMEM mostly source package.


Firstly, I have not tested this new release. That said, what is the 
status with regards to having FastTracker II working on FreeDOS? My 
FreeDOS installation consists mainly of what was distributed with the 
Beta9 SR1 CD, so some of the components may be fairly old. I did however 
 download your previous EMM386 and HIMEM release back in July or August.



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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Michael Devore]

At 11:21 PM 9/19/2005 +0100, you wrote:

A better option would be to get to the bottom of why SCSI and VDS do not 
like each other. SCSI is a drive interface - I don't see how it can be 
affected by VDS unless there's something bigger going on. It may he SCSI 
is merely showing up the problem, as opposed to BEING the problem?


Nope, there are documented instances of SCSI drivers being incompatible 
with VDS.  In those cases, they share the same interrupt and potentially 
the same register values which VDS uses to determine its functions and what 
to do.  Obviously if SCSI wants to read a disk sector and VDS thinks you 
want to check for contiguous memory amounts, something is going to wind up 
very unhappy.


Is that what the problem is with your SCSI setup(s)?  Can't say, good 
chance it's a failure elsewhere, or it could be the fundamental failure 
described above.  If you want me to get to the bottom of your particular 
VDS failure, then you or someone else will need to send me a machine that 
demonstrates the problem, same as Mark Bailey did with his 
laptop.  Otherwise, it's all conjecture here.


the amount up to $60.00 and made the contribution on August 9, specified 
for where it was most needed with the title 'FreeDOS'.  Confirmation 
e-mail available on request.


Very nice, but I don't get it? You are spending hours developing this 
excellent Free software, and then paying out to charities based on it's 
popularity??


I was interested in knowing how many people overall, more or less, 
downloaded from my site for FreeDOS.  The contribution served three 
purposes:  1) it motivated interested people to download the latest rather 
than wait for release+n like people tend to do; 2) it gave me a better 
baseline against people who solely hit the site to download files simply 
because they are there (BBS'ers used to call them file-rapers); and 3) it 
made a little money for a universally helpful charity that could use it.


Oh, 3.5) I was bored and it was a mild diversion.  And, 3.75) It gave me an 
excuse to start working with Perl and Cygwin-based utils a bit more to 
process the results, instead of coding something up in C/C++ overkill as I 
typically have done.





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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Bernd Blaauw]

Gerry Hickman schreef:
A better option would be to get to the bottom of why SCSI and VDS do 
not like each other. SCSI is a drive interface - I don't see how it 
can be affected by VDS unless there's something bigger going on. It 
may he SCSI is merely showing up the problem, as opposed to BEING the 
problem?
VDS being enabled by default *will* cause people to report any problems 
with SCSI setups.
Previously VDS was omitted by default, so people would never find out 
there would have been an issue.
the amount up to $60.00 and made the contribution on August 9, 
specified for where it was most needed with the title 'FreeDOS'.  
Confirmation e-mail available on request.


Very nice, but I don't get it? You are spending hours developing this 
excellent Free software, and then paying out to charities based on 
it's popularity??
non-commercial programmers take their time to make their software as 
good as possible, there's no pressure except for the desire to make good 
enough (or even perfect) software. I'm glad Michael wants to deliver 
such quality and keeps improving these memory managers.
The better the quality and reputation, the more downloads, the more 
testing, and more remaining issues exposed --> goto begin :)
Michael's charity helps the charity itself, and it helps getting EMM386 
more exposure and testing.
As you can see from the changelog, most bugs seem to be detected by 
Michael himself. That's quite impressive, as most people are blind with 
regard to their own code, meaning their code is too familiar to look at 
it properly as a critic.


Happy bughunting people, and thanks for the release, Michael :)




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Re: [Freedos-user] EMM386 2.05 update, recommended for all

[Gerry Hickman]

Hi Michael,


This version of EMM386 has a number of compatibility changes


Cool.

While on the topics of VDS, the VDS option is now on by default.  Too 
many environments require this to leave it as optional, plus a default 
on condition matches Microsoft EMM386.  There exist SCSI setups which 
will REQUIRE you to turn off VDS support via the new NOVDS option.  
Unfortunately for those SCSI-ites, the people who need VDS outnumber the 
people who need to not have VDS, so they lost out.  Or maybe the people 
who need VDS just yell louder.  Ahh well, same difference to me.  I like 
quiet.


A better option would be to get to the bottom of why SCSI and VDS do not 
like each other. SCSI is a drive interface - I don't see how it can be 
affected by VDS unless there's something bigger going on. It may he SCSI 
is merely showing up the problem, as opposed to BEING the problem?


the amount up to $60.00 and made the contribution on August 9, specified 
for where it was most needed with the title 'FreeDOS'.  Confirmation 
e-mail available on request.


Very nice, but I don't get it? You are spending hours developing this 
excellent Free software, and then paying out to charities based on it's 
popularity??


--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)


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