Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
I'm weighing in a bit late on this conversation, but I've generally had a positive experience with open public testing. There are a few things I'm worried about though. For one, as your application gets better, you start competing with your final product. I'm also a little worried about people burning out on the game before it's even released, but I think I can circumvent that by adding a heap of new content for the final release. Another problem is early conversations mention a lot about the instability. That's normal in young applications but it might throw some people off. As for the benefits, there were a lot of those too. It has built a great community which you wouldn't have had if you had a surprise release. Once everyone knows a new version is imminent, there is a lot of excitement too. I started public testing extremely early because I really wasn't sure how to proceed with the interface. Walking around a random dungeon had to have special consideration. Plus all the important decisions about SAPI and others were up in the air. Now I have a much better idea and I think the next project will benefit a lot from that. From a game sales standpoint, I don't know if public or private testing is better yet though. Cheers! Jason --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi David, yes, that sounds like very intensive beta testing and although testing for games can sometimes be difficult, it does not sound as though it reaches quite up to that level. In any case, I usually discuss with the people that test for me whether or not they should get a free copy depending on how much time they are going to spend on it etc. If they are only giving the game a few test runs and giving some spontaneous feedback then they will usually not receive a free copy, though again it depends entirely on how much time and dedication that they put in. I would, however, give a free copy to anyone who tests the software every day for 6 months. Smile. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 1:29 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing Hello, The business, productivity, and AT programs which I have alpha and beta tested were typically in the multi-hundred to few thousand dollar range. For these products, beta testing has always been quite intensive; usually lasting at least six months and requiring considerable time commitments. In many cases, we use the solution on our business machines to give it real-world challenges. Whenever bugs crop up, we file detailed reports on how to specifically reproduce the bugs. When bugs are intermittent, we dig for them while still using the software normally. In other words, one of the things we do is try to crash the programs and report exactly on how we caused the crashes. I have done this through a private business, while working for a university, and as a private consumer. In all cases, this is what private alpha and beta testing consists of, and the developers always get their money's worth for the software. If we charged, it would cost significantly more for the service (the company which trained me now only alpha and beta tests for large corporations and charges for their services). It was in the late 90's when I worked with them and was taught. I never became as intense as they are, but I always use the principles they taught me. David Chittenden, MSc, CRC, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Philip Bennefall wrote: Hi David and Dark, I also think that the final price of the product has an impact on this decision. What you are essentially doing is paying the beta testers for their work, and so let's say that the game will sell for 25 or 30 dollars then that's probably a reasonable amount to give in return for testing which in turn would most certainly warrent a free copy. If, however, the game or product sells for $150 then I would argue that a free copy is too much payment in most cases. If the testers spend a year running the program over and over again then it probably is not, but in most cases I'd say that it is and then a price reduction would be in order instead. In short, one has to decide what one as a developer considers to be a reasonable amount to pay for testing and if this covers the cost of the game, give it out for free and if it does not cover it, give a reduction. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing No problem David. Like everything else, it's up to the developer, I was just pointing out that it was not a necessary condition of private testing that the developer has to give away 5 or 10 coppies of the game for free. It does seem reasonable with business software and the like, --- sinse A, the markit can stand it and B, the testing process itself wouldn't necessarily be enjoyable to the tester. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date: 01/01/10 09:20:00 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi Dark, Yes, in deed. It is a rather unusual situation, and one I doubt another game developer will find themselves in. The problem began long before I got on the seen with Alchemy offering certain games with certain features, making and breaking promises, and something I should have left well alone. However, like many others here I had money wrapped up in Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge so felt I had the right to the source code so I could finish and sell the games myself. Plus I didn't want to see anyone get screwed over Alchemy pulling out like that and keeping the money for the preorders. So no matter how you cut it it was a bad situation from the start. I believe once I get Raceway and MOTA done things will get allot better for everyone. For one thing any games I work on will be my own, I won't be taking preorders for them, and I don't even have to announce their existence until I'm ready too. That allows me to design a game relatively in secret, and only when it is ready to be tested will I make the project known to the public at large. That allows me some breathing room to do things on my own time and in my own way. dark wrote: I see the truth of all that Tom, however as you said yourself, i don't think Mota is a particularly typical testing process at all for games. Even apart from the pretty major money issue you mention, there was the fact that the original alchemy game had features x y z, that you then produced your own game which got shot down by the evil lawyers of doom, and now we're onto a third project under the same banner but essentially a different game. When i think of all the Monti and mota versions i've played, features have gone in and out like nobody's business due to all these changes. I think if Monti had just been firmly and squarely released as it should have been, all these shinanigans would've sorted themselves out. Hopefully any games Philip, yourself, or indeed anybody else developes in future will be free of all these swings and roundabouts. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi Dark, That's my entire point though. In order for me to test the entire game I have to give away a full unlocked copy to someone that way the final game level which is different from the first gets fully tested as well as all the levels in between. That's why I made the point that a developer really could use a private team for testing the full/unlocked copy where the public team gets only a demo for general testing on a larger range of systems and platforms. dark wrote: Hi tom. I wasn't in anyway suggesting giving away public copies of the game. As has already been said, public copies should be restricted to demo content only, and for the purposes of testing the general running and mechanics of the game. If you've got a game which employs vastly different enemies and mechanics throughout, so that the last level is vastly different to the first, then indeed private testing does make sense as you will need people to play the private version. there are stil other options than giving away free coppies though such as reductions in price. # Essentially it just depends upon how complete your private beta is. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi Philip, I think you pretty much covered all the major pros and cons of private vs public testing so I really can't add too much to that part of the discussion. However, what I may be able to add here is the benefit of my experience with private verses public testing. As far as public testing goes I've had mixed feelings about it. When I originally started USA games back in 2004 I began with a free game called Star Trek Final Conflict. During the testing of STFC the experience was very positive, was fun for everyone, and I got lots of helpful end user feedback and suggestions. However, that was for the most part a low pressure project so the community was pretty cool about it. However, the problem with public testing for me really began in 2006 soon after I agreed to take over some game projects James North had been working on where money had already changed hands creating a very heated and stressful situation. Over the passed three years nagging has been my number one problem with public testing. I often get requests like when is the next beta coming out, why didn't I add this or that suggestion, why don't I stop fooling around and get the game done, and so on. A few, not all, tend to think because they paid in advance for this game that I must add the features they suggest, and get the game done according to some time table they themselves think would be reasonable. This, of course, has not been a pleasant experience for me at all. However, i contribute most of this to the fact money had already changed hands before I took over the project, and now some people believe I owe them whatever they want when they want it. However, no matter how bad the negative feedback has been there have been a lot of positives that have come out of public testing. I've found bugs faster, tested it on a wider range of systems, and got a lot of suggestions that could be added while the game was being designed from scratch. I found out what people did and didn't like about my games allowing me to tailer the game to what the majority of people wanted. This undoubtedly has resulted in a much better product in the long run. As far as private testing goes I've had some mixed results with that as well. Some people just join in order hoping to get a free game out of it which means they don't do a lot of testing and aren't really working for your best interests. Some are honestly trying to help, but miss things or don't encounter bugs that might show up on a different system. The worst problem I've had is a couple of private testers that were doing a good job testing, but they were bad mouthing and having personal issues with the other testers. In the end I had to kick them off the test team to restore peace and order to the list. On the positive side private testing really helped me get the game engine written, tested the early stages of MOTA, when the game and the engine really wasn't ready for public consumption. There were several bugs in the engine I know of, some popped up on some testers machines, and not others. By using the test team first I managed to get through allot of stability issues and bugs so by the time I released the first public beta many of the bugs and serious problems had been resolved. The other related advantage is how the test team views the project verses the public. In a game's early development the developer may change his/her mind many times and drastically change certain elements of the game such as adding some and removing others here and there. A test team understands this is an early test release so won't complain to much if you add something new or yank something old out of the game. As I've recently discovered with the public betas of MOTA sometimes the public takes a completely different view and screams for that feature to get immediately returned to the game even though the developer may have reasons not to restore that feature to the game at that time. This happened to me not to long ago when I decided to disable the save/load game feature in the demo, and people screamed bloody murder over it. My attempts to explain that the game was only a demo, not a full registered game, fell on deaf ears. They had the feature in the previous release and now they want it back. This wouldn't have happened if I would have disabled that feature from the start, or was using a private test team. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi Dark, Actually, that is standard practice in the mainstream business world. One way a company gets private testers is by giving them a free product for their help, or give them a rather big discount so that he/she gets a good deal out of the testing process. Plus you can't really fully test a product unless you actually give them a fully working and registered product before final release to evaluate it. It is one thing to give say 10 people a fully functional product for free for testing purposes, and quite another to give everyone a free copy for testing purposes and then ask for money for it after testing is over. Many People will keep the test version you gave them and forgo paying for the 1.0 upgrade. So it isn't exactly financially feasible or realistic to give everyone a fully functional product and demand money for it after you determine testing is complete. So in a case like that it is better to give a private test team 10 copies of the full product to test, and sell it once the final product is determined to be ready for sale. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi David, Most accessible game developers follow the same moddel. It is generally understood if you test a game for a game developer you usually get a free game out of the process. So it is pretty much expected by this community. David Chittenden wrote: Hello Dark, I have never been involved in private beta of accessible games. For the business and productivity software which I have tested, receiving a copy of the software is standard practice. Then again, there is a lot involved in such forms of beta testing. I just assumed that private game testing followed the same model. I sincerely apologize for my incorrect understanding. David Chittenden, MSc, CRC, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
No problem David. Like everything else, it's up to the developer, I was just pointing out that it was not a necessary condition of private testing that the developer has to give away 5 or 10 coppies of the game for free. It does seem reasonable with business software and the like, --- sinse A, the markit can stand it and B, the testing process itself wouldn't necessarily be enjoyable to the tester. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
As i said Sean, entombed did actually have private testing back when the basic systems were being setup. None of the private versions I played were actually particularly playable games, though Jason did stick in a surprise or two to keep us on our toes. That's the model I stil think is best, private testing at first, then public. beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 2:31 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing well you could do what tom has done. half and half. We get public betas every so often but only stable ones really. otherwise private testing. Now something like entombed from public all the way sounds good but it depends on the game. Entombed for example is a world where public testing would probably be more suited to see what needs going in since it will eventually become bigger than it is now. Most of the major issues in the engine are done and now only content issues happen and most of these are done in fact I have not seen many bug reports released over the last bit and none this week which is a good sign. Ofcause the disadvantage with public is you can't offer any bonuses, ie free games, discounts, etc to your testers because everyone would want one. Unless you had a prepays system like blindadreneline has though hmph well. At 12:33 p.m. 3/01/2010, you wrote: Hi all, I just wanted to put a question out. What are your opinions of private testing with a dedicated team versus publicly released betas that everyone can try out? I have a new game in development now, and I am considering whether to make a public beta available similar to what Thomas Ward and Jason Alan have done. I see some pros and cons with private testing, though: Pros: 1. Easier to manage. Since you have only a few people who are testing the game you do not need to answer the same questions or receive the same bug reports numerous times. 2. The element of surprise. With a private team, very few people know about the development and so it comes as more of a nice surprise when something new is released, where as in the case when everyone knows pretty much everything that is going on it's hardly unexpected when a game finally is released. In the worst case, some people may even have gotten tired of the game after playing the betas! Cons: 1. Limited testing=more possible bugs. If you have a smaller team you are not as likely to catch every single bug before the product goes to release. This can result in some pretty rapid patch releases (1.0.1, 1.0.2, 1.1, etc) right after 1.0 has been put out and this obviously doesn't look too good. 2. Nagging. If everyone knows about the game while it is being developed, I fear that some people would be sending emails asking when the next version is out or wanting to know why this or that feature that they suggested hasn't been implemented. This is of course a very broad generalization and I do not in any way wish to insinuate that a lot of people do this, but there are a few cases and it might make it annoying for the developer to see the project all the way to the end. If no one except the private testing team knows about the game, then you will not get any public comments before you go 1.0 and then you are obviosly prepared to take them. On the other hand, of course, more public suggestions means more good possible ideas for the developer to work with. Thoughts, anyone? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi Munawar. Personally, i don't mind successive ptches at all, indeed the patches for entombed which A, fixed bugs, and B, redressed a good few balancing issues inherent in the first version of the game were a very good thing indeed. I'd have actually been slightly disappointed myself if the public beta was left as a buggy, unfair version of the game. though maybe this depends upon game type, sinse obviously an rpg has more statistics to muck about with and attempt to correctly balance than an action game. just a personal opinion again. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Munawar Bijani munaw...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 4:03 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing Hi, Public testing is good since it lets you test the game on a wide range of configurations. I've seen the best results when a build is privately tested first, and then when considered stable, released for public evaluation. This is the practice I employ and it has worked well. As far as the element of surprise, you don't have to release the entire game as public testing software; just lock it to the demo. Your goal is to make sure that the overall framework runs on your general target audience's computers. As for releasing successive patches, that's up to you. The best thing to do is wait. If there's a bug, don't fix it right away and release a patch because this will just annoy people; every time they turn around there's another update. This is what you have to be careful with in public testing. It's okay for private testing since that's their job, but remember that public testers are your future customers as well as your unofficial testers--they're trying the game because they're interested in it, not solely for the purpose of testing it. Munawar A. Bijani blog: http://munawar0009.blogspot.com http://www.bpcprograms.com Follow on Twitter for blog updates: http://www.twitter.com/munawar0009 -- --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi Munawar. that's true, however I stil don't think giving away the software is a mandatory requirement of private testing. I've certainly been in situations where getting a given private test build to work has taken some shinanigans, but I stil never particularly see this as a problem myself or requiring compensation, sinse I'll get a hopefully interesting game to play out of it. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Munawar Bijani munaw...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 4:08 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing Hi Dark, Private testing is more rigorous than public testing and requires a lot more time. You're testing prereleased software so at times you're the first test subject and may have to go through a lot just to get the software working. For this reason, I feel that private testers deserve some compensation, and since game development doesn't allow for monitary compensation until the project is released, giving them a free copy is the best way to go. If you only have a handful of testers, it's not much money you're losing; in fact, private testers help you since they often times put the program through paces you never thought of, which saves you from having to release several patches when the program is publicly released. Munawar A. Bijani blog: http://munawar0009.blogspot.com http://www.bpcprograms.com Follow on Twitter for blog updates: http://www.twitter.com/munawar0009 -- From: dark d...@xgam.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:20 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing I Disagree with david that just because you have a private testing team they should automatically get a copy of the software, especially in a field like accessible games where every sale helps. Testing is a way for non-programmers to contribute to accessible games developement, not a way to grab free coppies of the software, - especially as it's hoped the testing process will in itself be fun for the players (all the games testing programs I've been involved in certainly have been), in fact if the testing process isn't fun, then the developer certainly! has work to do, ;D. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
I see the truth of all that Tom, however as you said yourself, i don't think Mota is a particularly typical testing process at all for games. Even apart from the pretty major money issue you mention, there was the fact that the original alchemy game had features x y z, that you then produced your own game which got shot down by the evil lawyers of doom, and now we're onto a third project under the same banner but essentially a different game. When i think of all the Monti and mota versions i've played, features have gone in and out like nobody's business due to all these changes. I think if Monti had just been firmly and squarely released as it should have been, all these shinanigans would've sorted themselves out. Hopefully any games Philip, yourself, or indeed anybody else developes in future will be free of all these swings and roundabouts. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi tom. I wasn't in anyway suggesting giving away public copies of the game. As has already been said, public copies should be restricted to demo content only, and for the purposes of testing the general running and mechanics of the game. If you've got a game which employs vastly different enemies and mechanics throughout, so that the last level is vastly different to the first, then indeed private testing does make sense as you will need people to play the private version. there are stil other options than giving away free coppies though such as reductions in price. # Essentially it just depends upon how complete your private beta is. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing Hi Dark, Actually, that is standard practice in the mainstream business world. One way a company gets private testers is by giving them a free product for their help, or give them a rather big discount so that he/she gets a good deal out of the testing process. Plus you can't really fully test a product unless you actually give them a fully working and registered product before final release to evaluate it. It is one thing to give say 10 people a fully functional product for free for testing purposes, and quite another to give everyone a free copy for testing purposes and then ask for money for it after testing is over. Many People will keep the test version you gave them and forgo paying for the 1.0 upgrade. So it isn't exactly financially feasible or realistic to give everyone a fully functional product and demand money for it after you determine testing is complete. So in a case like that it is better to give a private test team 10 copies of the full product to test, and sell it once the final product is determined to be ready for sale. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi David and Dark, I also think that the final price of the product has an impact on this decision. What you are essentially doing is paying the beta testers for their work, and so let's say that the game will sell for 25 or 30 dollars then that's probably a reasonable amount to give in return for testing which in turn would most certainly warrent a free copy. If, however, the game or product sells for $150 then I would argue that a free copy is too much payment in most cases. If the testers spend a year running the program over and over again then it probably is not, but in most cases I'd say that it is and then a price reduction would be in order instead. In short, one has to decide what one as a developer considers to be a reasonable amount to pay for testing and if this covers the cost of the game, give it out for free and if it does not cover it, give a reduction. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing No problem David. Like everything else, it's up to the developer, I was just pointing out that it was not a necessary condition of private testing that the developer has to give away 5 or 10 coppies of the game for free. It does seem reasonable with business software and the like, --- sinse A, the markit can stand it and B, the testing process itself wouldn't necessarily be enjoyable to the tester. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date: 01/01/10 09:20:00 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
true. I do have my games I test but don't run them all the time. Actually right now its mid summer here. running games? I can test if I need to but it does not cool right down these days. At 04:06 a.m. 4/01/2010, you wrote: Hi David and Dark, I also think that the final price of the product has an impact on this decision. What you are essentially doing is paying the beta testers for their work, and so let's say that the game will sell for 25 or 30 dollars then that's probably a reasonable amount to give in return for testing which in turn would most certainly warrent a free copy. If, however, the game or product sells for $150 then I would argue that a free copy is too much payment in most cases. If the testers spend a year running the program over and over again then it probably is not, but in most cases I'd say that it is and then a price reduction would be in order instead. In short, one has to decide what one as a developer considers to be a reasonable amount to pay for testing and if this covers the cost of the game, give it out for free and if it does not cover it, give a reduction. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing No problem David. Like everything else, it's up to the developer, I was just pointing out that it was not a necessary condition of private testing that the developer has to give away 5 or 10 coppies of the game for free. It does seem reasonable with business software and the like, --- sinse A, the markit can stand it and B, the testing process itself wouldn't necessarily be enjoyable to the tester. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date: 01/01/10 09:20:00 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hello, The business, productivity, and AT programs which I have alpha and beta tested were typically in the multi-hundred to few thousand dollar range. For these products, beta testing has always been quite intensive; usually lasting at least six months and requiring considerable time commitments. In many cases, we use the solution on our business machines to give it real-world challenges. Whenever bugs crop up, we file detailed reports on how to specifically reproduce the bugs. When bugs are intermittent, we dig for them while still using the software normally. In other words, one of the things we do is try to crash the programs and report exactly on how we caused the crashes. I have done this through a private business, while working for a university, and as a private consumer. In all cases, this is what private alpha and beta testing consists of, and the developers always get their money's worth for the software. If we charged, it would cost significantly more for the service (the company which trained me now only alpha and beta tests for large corporations and charges for their services). It was in the late 90's when I worked with them and was taught. I never became as intense as they are, but I always use the principles they taught me. David Chittenden, MSc, CRC, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Philip Bennefall wrote: Hi David and Dark, I also think that the final price of the product has an impact on this decision. What you are essentially doing is paying the beta testers for their work, and so let's say that the game will sell for 25 or 30 dollars then that's probably a reasonable amount to give in return for testing which in turn would most certainly warrent a free copy. If, however, the game or product sells for $150 then I would argue that a free copy is too much payment in most cases. If the testers spend a year running the program over and over again then it probably is not, but in most cases I'd say that it is and then a price reduction would be in order instead. In short, one has to decide what one as a developer considers to be a reasonable amount to pay for testing and if this covers the cost of the game, give it out for free and if it does not cover it, give a reduction. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing No problem David. Like everything else, it's up to the developer, I was just pointing out that it was not a necessary condition of private testing that the developer has to give away 5 or 10 coppies of the game for free. It does seem reasonable with business software and the like, --- sinse A, the markit can stand it and B, the testing process itself wouldn't necessarily be enjoyable to the tester. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date: 01/01/10 09:20:00 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi, my personal opinion is go public. I rather liked Tom Ward's betas and I am willing to get the game, once it is out as a final version. If there are a few beta releases, people can see a game grow, when you put it more together per release. I can't know how much work you have left on actual content or if you only want testing for finding bugs and improve stability, but either way you have something in your hand (the user) which you can then await and eventually help the developer with... Again: I'd say that you should go public. Regards, Michael - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: A public mailing list for Blastbay Studios. t...@blastbay.com Cc: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:33 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing Hi all, I just wanted to put a question out. What are your opinions of private testing with a dedicated team versus publicly released betas that everyone can try out? I have a new game in development now, and I am considering whether to make a public beta available similar to what Thomas Ward and Jason Alan have done. I see some pros and cons with private testing, though: Pros: 1. Easier to manage. Since you have only a few people who are testing the game you do not need to answer the same questions or receive the same bug reports numerous times. 2. The element of surprise. With a private team, very few people know about the development and so it comes as more of a nice surprise when something new is released, where as in the case when everyone knows pretty much everything that is going on it's hardly unexpected when a game finally is released. In the worst case, some people may even have gotten tired of the game after playing the betas! Cons: 1. Limited testing=more possible bugs. If you have a smaller team you are not as likely to catch every single bug before the product goes to release. This can result in some pretty rapid patch releases (1.0.1, 1.0.2, 1.1, etc) right after 1.0 has been put out and this obviously doesn't look too good. 2. Nagging. If everyone knows about the game while it is being developed, I fear that some people would be sending emails asking when the next version is out or wanting to know why this or that feature that they suggested hasn't been implemented. This is of course a very broad generalization and I do not in any way wish to insinuate that a lot of people do this, but there are a few cases and it might make it annoying for the developer to see the project all the way to the end. If no one except the private testing team knows about the game, then you will not get any public comments before you go 1.0 and then you are obviosly prepared to take them. On the other hand, of course, more public suggestions means more good possible ideas for the developer to work with. Thoughts, anyone? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
well imho public betas are way better. or a combination of the 2 aka how I did. although all the stuff isn't quite visible to the world yet anyone is always welcome and join, test and so on. - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: A public mailing list for Blastbay Studios. t...@blastbay.com Cc: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:33 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing Hi all, I just wanted to put a question out. What are your opinions of private testing with a dedicated team versus publicly released betas that everyone can try out? I have a new game in development now, and I am considering whether to make a public beta available similar to what Thomas Ward and Jason Alan have done. I see some pros and cons with private testing, though: Pros: 1. Easier to manage. Since you have only a few people who are testing the game you do not need to answer the same questions or receive the same bug reports numerous times. 2. The element of surprise. With a private team, very few people know about the development and so it comes as more of a nice surprise when something new is released, where as in the case when everyone knows pretty much everything that is going on it's hardly unexpected when a game finally is released. In the worst case, some people may even have gotten tired of the game after playing the betas! Cons: 1. Limited testing=more possible bugs. If you have a smaller team you are not as likely to catch every single bug before the product goes to release. This can result in some pretty rapid patch releases (1.0.1, 1.0.2, 1.1, etc) right after 1.0 has been put out and this obviously doesn't look too good. 2. Nagging. If everyone knows about the game while it is being developed, I fear that some people would be sending emails asking when the next version is out or wanting to know why this or that feature that they suggested hasn't been implemented. This is of course a very broad generalization and I do not in any way wish to insinuate that a lot of people do this, but there are a few cases and it might make it annoying for the developer to see the project all the way to the end. If no one except the private testing team knows about the game, then you will not get any public comments before you go 1.0 and then you are obviosly prepared to take them. On the other hand, of course, more public suggestions means more good possible ideas for the developer to work with. Thoughts, anyone? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4333 (20090813) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4333 (20090813) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
My idea is this? 1) Do what the big software guys have done, have a select few testers to put the software through it's pases and when you think the software is ready, release it as a publish beta for a short time. Microsoft and other software houses do this. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 6:34 PM To: A public mailing list for Blastbay Studios. Cc: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing Hi all, I just wanted to put a question out. What are your opinions of private testing with a dedicated team versus publicly released betas that everyone can try out? I have a new game in development now, and I am considering whether to make a public beta available similar to what Thomas Ward and Jason Alan have done. I see some pros and cons with private testing, though: Pros: 1. Easier to manage. Since you have only a few people who are testing the game you do not need to answer the same questions or receive the same bug reports numerous times. 2. The element of surprise. With a private team, very few people know about the development and so it comes as more of a nice surprise when something new is released, where as in the case when everyone knows pretty much everything that is going on it's hardly unexpected when a game finally is released. In the worst case, some people may even have gotten tired of the game after playing the betas! Cons: 1. Limited testing=more possible bugs. If you have a smaller team you are not as likely to catch every single bug before the product goes to release. This can result in some pretty rapid patch releases (1.0.1, 1.0.2, 1.1, etc) right after 1.0 has been put out and this obviously doesn't look too good. 2. Nagging. If everyone knows about the game while it is being developed, I fear that some people would be sending emails asking when the next version is out or wanting to know why this or that feature that they suggested hasn't been implemented. This is of course a very broad generalization and I do not in any way wish to insinuate that a lot of people do this, but there are a few cases and it might make it annoying for the developer to see the project all the way to the end. If no one except the private testing team knows about the game, then you will not get any public comments before you go 1.0 and then you are obviosly prepared to take them. On the other hand, of course, more public suggestions means more good possible ideas for the developer to work with. Thoughts, anyone? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Kind of on the same side of you here... hard to say exactly which one. I think public is okay, provided it's clear that not all suggestions will be put in unless it's possible. On the other hand, private is like you said, something t help the element of surprise. Personally, I'd go for public because I like comunity feedback. But that's just me. - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: A public mailing list for Blastbay Studios. t...@blastbay.com Cc: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:33 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing Hi all, I just wanted to put a question out. What are your opinions of private testing with a dedicated team versus publicly released betas that everyone can try out? I have a new game in development now, and I am considering whether to make a public beta available similar to what Thomas Ward and Jason Alan have done. I see some pros and cons with private testing, though: Pros: 1. Easier to manage. Since you have only a few people who are testing the game you do not need to answer the same questions or receive the same bug reports numerous times. 2. The element of surprise. With a private team, very few people know about the development and so it comes as more of a nice surprise when something new is released, where as in the case when everyone knows pretty much everything that is going on it's hardly unexpected when a game finally is released. In the worst case, some people may even have gotten tired of the game after playing the betas! Cons: 1. Limited testing=more possible bugs. If you have a smaller team you are not as likely to catch every single bug before the product goes to release. This can result in some pretty rapid patch releases (1.0.1, 1.0.2, 1.1, etc) right after 1.0 has been put out and this obviously doesn't look too good. 2. Nagging. If everyone knows about the game while it is being developed, I fear that some people would be sending emails asking when the next version is out or wanting to know why this or that feature that they suggested hasn't been implemented. This is of course a very broad generalization and I do not in any way wish to insinuate that a lot of people do this, but there are a few cases and it might make it annoying for the developer to see the project all the way to the end. If no one except the private testing team knows about the game, then you will not get any public comments before you go 1.0 and then you are obviosly prepared to take them. On the other hand, of course, more public suggestions means more good possible ideas for the developer to work with. Thoughts, anyone? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
All sorts of thoughts: It depending on how you look at it, so here goes. Good points of private testing: A chosen group of private testers is as good as the one doing the : choosing. Get a wide variety of machine configurations, game playing skills and experience, and knowledge of whether something is a bug in the game or a system related problem, and you'll have success. Accurate reporting, in an understandable format, including clearly written, correctly punctuated and including proper spelling, is a must. The beta process will go more quickly because the developer knows the testers, the unnecessary repeated troubleshooting and technical support won't be taking up the developer's time, resulting in a reliable product. You won't be bogged down with hundreds of suggestions as to what should or should not be put into the game in the way of features, and you can get on to the business of game testing and development. A selected group of testers tends to work together more as a team than a huge number of testers, and can be more easily managed if personal issues arise within the group. Good points of mass beta testing: More machines of different types and configurations means that bugs will be found and can be confirmed by a larger number of sources. Suggestions of features wanted will surely be sent and can be discussed. The news of a game being worked on can be more quickly spread, and more people can take part in the game's creation. Gamers will be able to get a better feel as what the finished product will be like, and can make a decision on whether to buy. Public betas are, in a way, a way of advertising, and at not much cost. I personally am in favor of private testing over public betas, or a combination of the two. Test a beta until it is pretty stable and reliable, then put it out there for the public to try. --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com To: A public mailing list for Blastbay Studios. t...@blastbay.com Cc: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:33 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing Hi all, I just wanted to put a question out. What are your opinions of private testing with a dedicated team versus publicly released betas that everyone can try out? I have a new game in development now, and I am considering whether to make a public beta available similar to what Thomas Ward and Jason Alan have done. I see some pros and cons with private testing, though: Pros: 1. Easier to manage. Since you have only a few people who are testing the game you do not need to answer the same questions or receive the same bug reports numerous times. 2. The element of surprise. With a private team, very few people know about the development and so it comes as more of a nice surprise when something new is released, where as in the case when everyone knows pretty much everything that is going on it's hardly unexpected when a game finally is released. In the worst case, some people may even have gotten tired of the game after playing the betas! Cons: 1. Limited testing=more possible bugs. If you have a smaller team you are not as likely to catch every single bug before the product goes to release. This can result in some pretty rapid patch releases (1.0.1, 1.0.2, 1.1, etc) right after 1.0 has been put out and this obviously doesn't look too good. 2. Nagging. If everyone knows about the game while it is being developed, I fear that some people would be sending emails asking when the next version is out or wanting to know why this or that feature that they suggested hasn't been implemented. This is of course a very broad generalization and I do not in any way wish to insinuate that a lot of people do this, but there are a few cases and it might make it annoying for the developer to see the project all the way to the end. If no one except the private testing team knows about the game, then you will not get any public comments before you go 1.0 and then you are obviosly prepared to take them. On the other hand, of course, more public suggestions means more good possible ideas for the developer to work with. Thoughts, anyone? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hello, It sounds to me like you have spelled out all of the benefits and detriments to both sides. The only things I would ad are that you can always increase and decrease the size of a private team as needed, but you typically should give the members a free copy of the software when the game is finished. With public beta, you do not have the same control, but you also do not need to provide software in recompense for the testing of it. I have been involved in both private and public beta programs. I tend to prefer the public beta because you get many more and different perspectives. Then again, I am not a programmer. David Chittenden, MSc, CRC, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Philip Bennefall wrote: Hi all, I just wanted to put a question out. What are your opinions of private testing with a dedicated team versus publicly released betas that everyone can try out? I have a new game in development now, and I am considering whether to make a public beta available similar to what Thomas Ward and Jason Alan have done. I see some pros and cons with private testing, though: Pros: 1. Easier to manage. Since you have only a few people who are testing the game you do not need to answer the same questions or receive the same bug reports numerous times. 2. The element of surprise. With a private team, very few people know about the development and so it comes as more of a nice surprise when something new is released, where as in the case when everyone knows pretty much everything that is going on it's hardly unexpected when a game finally is released. In the worst case, some people may even have gotten tired of the game after playing the betas! Cons: 1. Limited testing=more possible bugs. If you have a smaller team you are not as likely to catch every single bug before the product goes to release. This can result in some pretty rapid patch releases (1.0.1, 1.0.2, 1.1, etc) right after 1.0 has been put out and this obviously doesn't look too good. 2. Nagging. If everyone knows about the game while it is being developed, I fear that some people would be sending emails asking when the next version is out or wanting to know why this or that feature that they suggested hasn't been implemented. This is of course a very broad generalization and I do not in any way wish to insinuate that a lot of people do this, but there are a few cases and it might make it annoying for the developer to see the project all the way to the end. If no one except the private testing team knows about the game, then you will not get any public comments before you go 1.0 and then you are obviosly prepared to take them. On the other hand, of course, more public suggestions means more good possible ideas for the developer to work with. Thoughts, anyone? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi Philip. as a matter of personal opinion, I'd say both methods have their place. One of the primary advantages of private testing is you can ask a few dedicated people to test something which may be rather unplayable. Entombed was actually in private beta testing quite a bit before the publically released version (I was one of the private testers myself). At that point the game was barely playable, having only the basic combat and navigation features, and balancing issues so severe an instant resurrection key had to be added in. it wasn't publically playable, but it got the basic systems down very well, and being as it was understood to be a very early version, nobody complained. public testing however does have all the advantages you mention, pluss of course drumming up anticipation (I think entombed version 1 has to be the most intancipated audio game in history!). I'd therefore suggest private testing in the early stages up to say version 0.6, ie,a playable and completable bit of game which is comparatively bug free, then public testing there after to get suggestions, try a wide range of systems, and give people the chance to look forward to your game release. Obviously though, this is just a personal opinion, and it very much depends upon the circumstances of the developer and how decent the gamers' feedback is, I for one wouldn't blame Tom if he decided to never put out public betas again after all the shinanigans over Mota. Beware the Grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
I Disagree with david that just because you have a private testing team they should automatically get a copy of the software, especially in a field like accessible games where every sale helps. Testing is a way for non-programmers to contribute to accessible games developement, not a way to grab free coppies of the software, - especially as it's hoped the testing process will in itself be fun for the players (all the games testing programs I've been involved in certainly have been), in fact if the testing process isn't fun, then the developer certainly! has work to do, ;D. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:33 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing Hello, It sounds to me like you have spelled out all of the benefits and detriments to both sides. The only things I would ad are that you can always increase and decrease the size of a private team as needed, but you typically should give the members a free copy of the software when the game is finished. With public beta, you do not have the same control, but you also do not need to provide software in recompense for the testing of it. I have been involved in both private and public beta programs. I tend to prefer the public beta because you get many more and different perspectives. Then again, I am not a programmer. David Chittenden, MSc, CRC, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Philip Bennefall wrote: Hi all, I just wanted to put a question out. What are your opinions of private testing with a dedicated team versus publicly released betas that everyone can try out? I have a new game in development now, and I am considering whether to make a public beta available similar to what Thomas Ward and Jason Alan have done. I see some pros and cons with private testing, though: Pros: 1. Easier to manage. Since you have only a few people who are testing the game you do not need to answer the same questions or receive the same bug reports numerous times. 2. The element of surprise. With a private team, very few people know about the development and so it comes as more of a nice surprise when something new is released, where as in the case when everyone knows pretty much everything that is going on it's hardly unexpected when a game finally is released. In the worst case, some people may even have gotten tired of the game after playing the betas! Cons: 1. Limited testing=more possible bugs. If you have a smaller team you are not as likely to catch every single bug before the product goes to release. This can result in some pretty rapid patch releases (1.0.1, 1.0.2, 1.1, etc) right after 1.0 has been put out and this obviously doesn't look too good. 2. Nagging. If everyone knows about the game while it is being developed, I fear that some people would be sending emails asking when the next version is out or wanting to know why this or that feature that they suggested hasn't been implemented. This is of course a very broad generalization and I do not in any way wish to insinuate that a lot of people do this, but there are a few cases and it might make it annoying for the developer to see the project all the way to the end. If no one except the private testing team knows about the game, then you will not get any public comments before you go 1.0 and then you are obviosly prepared to take them. On the other hand, of course, more public suggestions means more good possible ideas for the developer to work with. Thoughts, anyone? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hello Dark, I have never been involved in private beta of accessible games. For the business and productivity software which I have tested, receiving a copy of the software is standard practice. Then again, there is a lot involved in such forms of beta testing. I just assumed that private game testing followed the same model. I sincerely apologize for my incorrect understanding. David Chittenden, MSc, CRC, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com dark wrote: I Disagree with david that just because you have a private testing team they should automatically get a copy of the software, especially in a field like accessible games where every sale helps. Testing is a way for non-programmers to contribute to accessible games developement, not a way to grab free coppies of the software, - especially as it's hoped the testing process will in itself be fun for the players (all the games testing programs I've been involved in certainly have been), in fact if the testing process isn't fun, then the developer certainly! has work to do, ;D. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:33 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing Hello, It sounds to me like you have spelled out all of the benefits and detriments to both sides. The only things I would ad are that you can always increase and decrease the size of a private team as needed, but you typically should give the members a free copy of the software when the game is finished. With public beta, you do not have the same control, but you also do not need to provide software in recompense for the testing of it. I have been involved in both private and public beta programs. I tend to prefer the public beta because you get many more and different perspectives. Then again, I am not a programmer. David Chittenden, MSc, CRC, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Philip Bennefall wrote: Hi all, I just wanted to put a question out. What are your opinions of private testing with a dedicated team versus publicly released betas that everyone can try out? I have a new game in development now, and I am considering whether to make a public beta available similar to what Thomas Ward and Jason Alan have done. I see some pros and cons with private testing, though: Pros: 1. Easier to manage. Since you have only a few people who are testing the game you do not need to answer the same questions or receive the same bug reports numerous times. 2. The element of surprise. With a private team, very few people know about the development and so it comes as more of a nice surprise when something new is released, where as in the case when everyone knows pretty much everything that is going on it's hardly unexpected when a game finally is released. In the worst case, some people may even have gotten tired of the game after playing the betas! Cons: 1. Limited testing=more possible bugs. If you have a smaller team you are not as likely to catch every single bug before the product goes to release. This can result in some pretty rapid patch releases (1.0.1, 1.0.2, 1.1, etc) right after 1.0 has been put out and this obviously doesn't look too good. 2. Nagging. If everyone knows about the game while it is being developed, I fear that some people would be sending emails asking when the next version is out or wanting to know why this or that feature that they suggested hasn't been implemented. This is of course a very broad generalization and I do not in any way wish to insinuate that a lot of people do this, but there are a few cases and it might make it annoying for the developer to see the project all the way to the end. If no one except the private testing team knows about the game, then you will not get any public comments before you go 1.0 and then you are obviosly prepared to take them. On the other hand, of course, more public suggestions means more good possible ideas for the developer to work with. Thoughts, anyone? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
well you could do what tom has done. half and half. We get public betas every so often but only stable ones really. otherwise private testing. Now something like entombed from public all the way sounds good but it depends on the game. Entombed for example is a world where public testing would probably be more suited to see what needs going in since it will eventually become bigger than it is now. Most of the major issues in the engine are done and now only content issues happen and most of these are done in fact I have not seen many bug reports released over the last bit and none this week which is a good sign. Ofcause the disadvantage with public is you can't offer any bonuses, ie free games, discounts, etc to your testers because everyone would want one. Unless you had a prepays system like blindadreneline has though hmph well. At 12:33 p.m. 3/01/2010, you wrote: Hi all, I just wanted to put a question out. What are your opinions of private testing with a dedicated team versus publicly released betas that everyone can try out? I have a new game in development now, and I am considering whether to make a public beta available similar to what Thomas Ward and Jason Alan have done. I see some pros and cons with private testing, though: Pros: 1. Easier to manage. Since you have only a few people who are testing the game you do not need to answer the same questions or receive the same bug reports numerous times. 2. The element of surprise. With a private team, very few people know about the development and so it comes as more of a nice surprise when something new is released, where as in the case when everyone knows pretty much everything that is going on it's hardly unexpected when a game finally is released. In the worst case, some people may even have gotten tired of the game after playing the betas! Cons: 1. Limited testing=more possible bugs. If you have a smaller team you are not as likely to catch every single bug before the product goes to release. This can result in some pretty rapid patch releases (1.0.1, 1.0.2, 1.1, etc) right after 1.0 has been put out and this obviously doesn't look too good. 2. Nagging. If everyone knows about the game while it is being developed, I fear that some people would be sending emails asking when the next version is out or wanting to know why this or that feature that they suggested hasn't been implemented. This is of course a very broad generalization and I do not in any way wish to insinuate that a lot of people do this, but there are a few cases and it might make it annoying for the developer to see the project all the way to the end. If no one except the private testing team knows about the game, then you will not get any public comments before you go 1.0 and then you are obviosly prepared to take them. On the other hand, of course, more public suggestions means more good possible ideas for the developer to work with. Thoughts, anyone? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Whether or not the game is given to testers is totally up to the company selling it. I've gotten games in this way, but if I hadn't, I would have bought them anyway. I appreciate the games, and I support the companies I have tested for. --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing I Disagree with david that just because you have a private testing team they should automatically get a copy of the software, especially in a field like accessible games where every sale helps. Testing is a way for non-programmers to contribute to accessible games developement, not a way to grab free coppies of the software, - especially as it's hoped the testing process will in itself be fun for the players (all the games testing programs I've been involved in certainly have been), in fact if the testing process isn't fun, then the developer certainly! has work to do, ;D. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:33 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing Hello, It sounds to me like you have spelled out all of the benefits and detriments to both sides. The only things I would ad are that you can always increase and decrease the size of a private team as needed, but you typically should give the members a free copy of the software when the game is finished. With public beta, you do not have the same control, but you also do not need to provide software in recompense for the testing of it. I have been involved in both private and public beta programs. I tend to prefer the public beta because you get many more and different perspectives. Then again, I am not a programmer. David Chittenden, MSc, CRC, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Philip Bennefall wrote: Hi all, I just wanted to put a question out. What are your opinions of private testing with a dedicated team versus publicly released betas that everyone can try out? I have a new game in development now, and I am considering whether to make a public beta available similar to what Thomas Ward and Jason Alan have done. I see some pros and cons with private testing, though: Pros: 1. Easier to manage. Since you have only a few people who are testing the game you do not need to answer the same questions or receive the same bug reports numerous times. 2. The element of surprise. With a private team, very few people know about the development and so it comes as more of a nice surprise when something new is released, where as in the case when everyone knows pretty much everything that is going on it's hardly unexpected when a game finally is released. In the worst case, some people may even have gotten tired of the game after playing the betas! Cons: 1. Limited testing=more possible bugs. If you have a smaller team you are not as likely to catch every single bug before the product goes to release. This can result in some pretty rapid patch releases (1.0.1, 1.0.2, 1.1, etc) right after 1.0 has been put out and this obviously doesn't look too good. 2. Nagging. If everyone knows about the game while it is being developed, I fear that some people would be sending emails asking when the next version is out or wanting to know why this or that feature that they suggested hasn't been implemented. This is of course a very broad generalization and I do not in any way wish to insinuate that a lot of people do this, but there are a few cases and it might make it annoying for the developer to see the project all the way to the end. If no one except the private testing team knows about the game, then you will not get any public comments before you go 1.0 and then you are obviosly prepared to take them. On the other hand, of course, more public suggestions means more good possible ideas for the developer to work with. Thoughts, anyone? Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi, Public testing is good since it lets you test the game on a wide range of configurations. I've seen the best results when a build is privately tested first, and then when considered stable, released for public evaluation. This is the practice I employ and it has worked well. As far as the element of surprise, you don't have to release the entire game as public testing software; just lock it to the demo. Your goal is to make sure that the overall framework runs on your general target audience's computers. As for releasing successive patches, that's up to you. The best thing to do is wait. If there's a bug, don't fix it right away and release a patch because this will just annoy people; every time they turn around there's another update. This is what you have to be careful with in public testing. It's okay for private testing since that's their job, but remember that public testers are your future customers as well as your unofficial testers--they're trying the game because they're interested in it, not solely for the purpose of testing it. Munawar A. Bijani blog: http://munawar0009.blogspot.com http://www.bpcprograms.com Follow on Twitter for blog updates: http://www.twitter.com/munawar0009 -- --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi Dark, Private testing is more rigorous than public testing and requires a lot more time. You're testing prereleased software so at times you're the first test subject and may have to go through a lot just to get the software working. For this reason, I feel that private testers deserve some compensation, and since game development doesn't allow for monitary compensation until the project is released, giving them a free copy is the best way to go. If you only have a handful of testers, it's not much money you're losing; in fact, private testers help you since they often times put the program through paces you never thought of, which saves you from having to release several patches when the program is publicly released. Munawar A. Bijani blog: http://munawar0009.blogspot.com http://www.bpcprograms.com Follow on Twitter for blog updates: http://www.twitter.com/munawar0009 -- From: dark d...@xgam.org Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:20 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing I Disagree with david that just because you have a private testing team they should automatically get a copy of the software, especially in a field like accessible games where every sale helps. Testing is a way for non-programmers to contribute to accessible games developement, not a way to grab free coppies of the software, - especially as it's hoped the testing process will in itself be fun for the players (all the games testing programs I've been involved in certainly have been), in fact if the testing process isn't fun, then the developer certainly! has work to do, ;D. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi Munawar, Good points there indeed. The general consensus seems to be private testing until stable and then a few public rounds so to speak. That's probably what I'll do. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Munawar Bijani munaw...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 5:03 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing Hi, Public testing is good since it lets you test the game on a wide range of configurations. I've seen the best results when a build is privately tested first, and then when considered stable, released for public evaluation. This is the practice I employ and it has worked well. As far as the element of surprise, you don't have to release the entire game as public testing software; just lock it to the demo. Your goal is to make sure that the overall framework runs on your general target audience's computers. As for releasing successive patches, that's up to you. The best thing to do is wait. If there's a bug, don't fix it right away and release a patch because this will just annoy people; every time they turn around there's another update. This is what you have to be careful with in public testing. It's okay for private testing since that's their job, but remember that public testers are your future customers as well as your unofficial testers--they're trying the game because they're interested in it, not solely for the purpose of testing it. Munawar A. Bijani blog: http://munawar0009.blogspot.com http://www.bpcprograms.com Follow on Twitter for blog updates: http://www.twitter.com/munawar0009 -- --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date: 01/01/10 09:20:00 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing
Hi. I have only one thing to add. What ever you release as public beta stays released. Some people now may play the beta instead of the full demo if the full version demo has less features in their opinion. On 1/3/10, Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com wrote: Hi Munawar, Good points there indeed. The general consensus seems to be private testing until stable and then a few public rounds so to speak. That's probably what I'll do. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Munawar Bijani munaw...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 5:03 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Public betas vs private testing Hi, Public testing is good since it lets you test the game on a wide range of configurations. I've seen the best results when a build is privately tested first, and then when considered stable, released for public evaluation. This is the practice I employ and it has worked well. As far as the element of surprise, you don't have to release the entire game as public testing software; just lock it to the demo. Your goal is to make sure that the overall framework runs on your general target audience's computers. As for releasing successive patches, that's up to you. The best thing to do is wait. If there's a bug, don't fix it right away and release a patch because this will just annoy people; every time they turn around there's another update. This is what you have to be careful with in public testing. It's okay for private testing since that's their job, but remember that public testers are your future customers as well as your unofficial testers--they're trying the game because they're interested in it, not solely for the purpose of testing it. Munawar A. Bijani blog: http://munawar0009.blogspot.com http://www.bpcprograms.com Follow on Twitter for blog updates: http://www.twitter.com/munawar0009 -- --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date: 01/01/10 09:20:00 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
