Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Paul Lemm]

Hi Justin,

Xenogear sounds pretty cool, I like the idea of being able to get into the
mechs for battle.

As for the programing, i'd actually be really intrested in that, as I've
said I'm still only learning  so my knowledge  is still pretty basic so I
can't produce anything amazing yet, but it would be good  to chat and swap
ideas. My email if you want to write me off list is paul.l...@sky.com



-Original Message-
From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin Jones
Sent: 28 October 2016 17:08
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory

Xenogears is an obscure game published by Squaresoft in the late 90's
for the PSX. It was a J-RPG with a fairly complex, and rather dark,
story. The interesting thing about the game, in addition to the story,
that is, is that your characters could pilot mechs and use them in
battle.

You know, Paul, maybe you and I ought to do some serious talking about
designing a role-playing game. I have the creative side, but not the
programming skills. Please let me know.

On 10/28/16, Paul Lemm <paul.lem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Justin,
>
> Ok, so final fantasy and Chrono trigger I've heard  of (although never
> actually played chrono trigger), but never heard of xenogears, ,  I
> actually
> remember  from a while back that one of the audio game developers, I think
> it was Ian reid  was actually working on something that would add
> accessibility  to the older  final fantasy and chrono  trigger  game, that
> was a while back now though , so not sure how far he ever got with that or
> if he's still working on it. As for the other more recent games you
> mentioned, I actually lost my sight about 12 years ago so haven't played a
> lot of those, I see where you're coming from though, as with the constant
> advancement of main stream consoles and PC's the games for those machines
> become more complex in both environment and game play, which in turn makes
> accessibility more and more difficult.  As for the programing side of it,
I
> actually started to teach myself to program just for the reason of wanting
> to create my own j-rpg, although I have to confess to being pretty rubbish
> at writing story's, but I'm hoping if I can get the game creation part
> mastered I can work with someone who will help with the story side of it.
> it is really rewarding though when you begin to see your little game start
> to take shape, so definitely worthwhile, although I've also had a ton of
> nights ridiculously frustrated wondering why a bit of code won't work like
> it should lol, still definitely a long way to go but maybe one day we'll
> see
> a game on here from me, let's just hope if I do people actually play it
> hahaha
>
> Paul
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin
Jones
> Sent: 28 October 2016 01:34
> To: Gamers Discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory
>
> Up until recently, I was able to play some mainstream video games, but
> I lost the rest of my eyesight almost a year ago. I can confirm that
> part of it was menu layout memorization, and for certain role-playing
> games/real-time strategy games, hotkeys were a big part of playing
> them. Unfortunately, where I ran into trouble was with navigating
> (particularly the third-person/first-person perspective games) and
> reading dialogue/menues.
>
> In many J-RPG's, e.g. Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, and here's an
> obscure one for you: Xenogears, the menu layout stayed the same. Also,
> in many of these games, if you went into the equipment menu and
> highlighted a weapon/armor/other accessory, there was an indicator as
> to whether or not the equipment in question would do you any good.
> This usually involved the new values conferred by the equipment
> showing up in a different color (and I had the eyesight to see this).
> However, in a western-style RPG, e.g. Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age:
> Origins, Pillars of Eternity or Skyrim, this is absent. Also, the
> layouts are more difficult to memorize in these latter instances.
>
> We haven't even touched on action-RPG's either, e.g. Diablo II,
> Titan's Quest or Torchlight. When I had a little eyesight, I could,
> sort of, play these, but it took a lot of work and extra effort. With
> Diablo II, for example, every time I leveled/found new gear I had to
> open up a third-party utility called Hero Editor that actually played
> nicely with JAWS (sort of) to make the necessary changes to my
> character.
>
> Anyway, once I get my new computer up and running, I am going to try
> to learn how to program. After I try to create a Dungeons and Dragons
> character creator for the blind (5th edition), providing I am
> successful, I would try my luck at creating a game. I do not 

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Justin Jones]

Xenogears is an obscure game published by Squaresoft in the late 90's
for the PSX. It was a J-RPG with a fairly complex, and rather dark,
story. The interesting thing about the game, in addition to the story,
that is, is that your characters could pilot mechs and use them in
battle.

You know, Paul, maybe you and I ought to do some serious talking about
designing a role-playing game. I have the creative side, but not the
programming skills. Please let me know.

On 10/28/16, Paul Lemm <paul.lem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Justin,
>
> Ok, so final fantasy and Chrono trigger I've heard  of (although never
> actually played chrono trigger), but never heard of xenogears, ,  I
> actually
> remember  from a while back that one of the audio game developers, I think
> it was Ian reid  was actually working on something that would add
> accessibility  to the older  final fantasy and chrono  trigger  game, that
> was a while back now though , so not sure how far he ever got with that or
> if he's still working on it. As for the other more recent games you
> mentioned, I actually lost my sight about 12 years ago so haven't played a
> lot of those, I see where you're coming from though, as with the constant
> advancement of main stream consoles and PC's the games for those machines
> become more complex in both environment and game play, which in turn makes
> accessibility more and more difficult.  As for the programing side of it, I
> actually started to teach myself to program just for the reason of wanting
> to create my own j-rpg, although I have to confess to being pretty rubbish
> at writing story's, but I'm hoping if I can get the game creation part
> mastered I can work with someone who will help with the story side of it.
> it is really rewarding though when you begin to see your little game start
> to take shape, so definitely worthwhile, although I've also had a ton of
> nights ridiculously frustrated wondering why a bit of code won't work like
> it should lol, still definitely a long way to go but maybe one day we'll
> see
> a game on here from me, let's just hope if I do people actually play it
> hahaha
>
> Paul
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin Jones
> Sent: 28 October 2016 01:34
> To: Gamers Discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory
>
> Up until recently, I was able to play some mainstream video games, but
> I lost the rest of my eyesight almost a year ago. I can confirm that
> part of it was menu layout memorization, and for certain role-playing
> games/real-time strategy games, hotkeys were a big part of playing
> them. Unfortunately, where I ran into trouble was with navigating
> (particularly the third-person/first-person perspective games) and
> reading dialogue/menues.
>
> In many J-RPG's, e.g. Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, and here's an
> obscure one for you: Xenogears, the menu layout stayed the same. Also,
> in many of these games, if you went into the equipment menu and
> highlighted a weapon/armor/other accessory, there was an indicator as
> to whether or not the equipment in question would do you any good.
> This usually involved the new values conferred by the equipment
> showing up in a different color (and I had the eyesight to see this).
> However, in a western-style RPG, e.g. Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age:
> Origins, Pillars of Eternity or Skyrim, this is absent. Also, the
> layouts are more difficult to memorize in these latter instances.
>
> We haven't even touched on action-RPG's either, e.g. Diablo II,
> Titan's Quest or Torchlight. When I had a little eyesight, I could,
> sort of, play these, but it took a lot of work and extra effort. With
> Diablo II, for example, every time I leveled/found new gear I had to
> open up a third-party utility called Hero Editor that actually played
> nicely with JAWS (sort of) to make the necessary changes to my
> character.
>
> Anyway, once I get my new computer up and running, I am going to try
> to learn how to program. After I try to create a Dungeons and Dragons
> character creator for the blind (5th edition), providing I am
> successful, I would try my luck at creating a game. I do not know if I
> will have any luck/will be able to do this, but I would rather try and
> fail, then simply never try.
>
> It is my turn, now, to apologize for the lengthy message...
>
> On 10/27/16, Paul Lemm <paul.lem...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Justin,
>>
>> To be fair I've never quite understood how people manage to play these
>> games
>> myself, as I've heard of people playing mortal combat, Teken,guitar hero
>> even down to things like castlevania , I think a lot of it is done by
>> memorising  menu layouts,,, routes, and ma

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Paul Lemm]

Hi Justin,

Ok, so final fantasy and Chrono trigger I've heard  of (although never
actually played chrono trigger), but never heard of xenogears, ,  I actually
remember  from a while back that one of the audio game developers, I think
it was Ian reid  was actually working on something that would add
accessibility  to the older  final fantasy and chrono  trigger  game, that
was a while back now though , so not sure how far he ever got with that or
if he's still working on it. As for the other more recent games you
mentioned, I actually lost my sight about 12 years ago so haven't played a
lot of those, I see where you're coming from though, as with the constant
advancement of main stream consoles and PC's the games for those machines
become more complex in both environment and game play, which in turn makes
accessibility more and more difficult.  As for the programing side of it, I
actually started to teach myself to program just for the reason of wanting
to create my own j-rpg, although I have to confess to being pretty rubbish
at writing story's, but I'm hoping if I can get the game creation part
mastered I can work with someone who will help with the story side of it.
it is really rewarding though when you begin to see your little game start
to take shape, so definitely worthwhile, although I've also had a ton of
nights ridiculously frustrated wondering why a bit of code won't work like
it should lol, still definitely a long way to go but maybe one day we'll see
a game on here from me, let's just hope if I do people actually play it
hahaha 

Paul 

-Original Message-
From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin Jones
Sent: 28 October 2016 01:34
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory

Up until recently, I was able to play some mainstream video games, but
I lost the rest of my eyesight almost a year ago. I can confirm that
part of it was menu layout memorization, and for certain role-playing
games/real-time strategy games, hotkeys were a big part of playing
them. Unfortunately, where I ran into trouble was with navigating
(particularly the third-person/first-person perspective games) and
reading dialogue/menues.

In many J-RPG's, e.g. Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, and here's an
obscure one for you: Xenogears, the menu layout stayed the same. Also,
in many of these games, if you went into the equipment menu and
highlighted a weapon/armor/other accessory, there was an indicator as
to whether or not the equipment in question would do you any good.
This usually involved the new values conferred by the equipment
showing up in a different color (and I had the eyesight to see this).
However, in a western-style RPG, e.g. Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age:
Origins, Pillars of Eternity or Skyrim, this is absent. Also, the
layouts are more difficult to memorize in these latter instances.

We haven't even touched on action-RPG's either, e.g. Diablo II,
Titan's Quest or Torchlight. When I had a little eyesight, I could,
sort of, play these, but it took a lot of work and extra effort. With
Diablo II, for example, every time I leveled/found new gear I had to
open up a third-party utility called Hero Editor that actually played
nicely with JAWS (sort of) to make the necessary changes to my
character.

Anyway, once I get my new computer up and running, I am going to try
to learn how to program. After I try to create a Dungeons and Dragons
character creator for the blind (5th edition), providing I am
successful, I would try my luck at creating a game. I do not know if I
will have any luck/will be able to do this, but I would rather try and
fail, then simply never try.

It is my turn, now, to apologize for the lengthy message...

On 10/27/16, Paul Lemm <paul.lem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Justin,
>
> To be fair I've never quite understood how people manage to play these
> games
> myself, as I've heard of people playing mortal combat, Teken,guitar hero
> even down to things like castlevania , I think a lot of it is done by
> memorising  menu layouts,,, routes, and map lay outs  via trial   and
error
> etc., in fact I occasionally  play my little boy at teken vs street
fighter
> , although he sets it up since I can't navigate the menus I imagine I
could
> if I wanted learn the layout of menus and navigate it to start a game
> myself, and I do occasionally win to, which is probably down to
remembering
> all the moves/combo's from when I used to play, so I can see to a  degree
> how with enough memorisation  and practise that you could play some games
> in
> this way., I guess you could argue that if you have to put that much
effort
> into remembering  so much about the game   to be able to play it, that
does
> it then lose some of the fun of the game? I guess it all comes down to how
> much you want to play the game and how much effort you want to put into
> learning /memorising all that stuff in a game to be ab

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Justin Jones]

Up until recently, I was able to play some mainstream video games, but
I lost the rest of my eyesight almost a year ago. I can confirm that
part of it was menu layout memorization, and for certain role-playing
games/real-time strategy games, hotkeys were a big part of playing
them. Unfortunately, where I ran into trouble was with navigating
(particularly the third-person/first-person perspective games) and
reading dialogue/menues.

In many J-RPG's, e.g. Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, and here's an
obscure one for you: Xenogears, the menu layout stayed the same. Also,
in many of these games, if you went into the equipment menu and
highlighted a weapon/armor/other accessory, there was an indicator as
to whether or not the equipment in question would do you any good.
This usually involved the new values conferred by the equipment
showing up in a different color (and I had the eyesight to see this).
However, in a western-style RPG, e.g. Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age:
Origins, Pillars of Eternity or Skyrim, this is absent. Also, the
layouts are more difficult to memorize in these latter instances.

We haven't even touched on action-RPG's either, e.g. Diablo II,
Titan's Quest or Torchlight. When I had a little eyesight, I could,
sort of, play these, but it took a lot of work and extra effort. With
Diablo II, for example, every time I leveled/found new gear I had to
open up a third-party utility called Hero Editor that actually played
nicely with JAWS (sort of) to make the necessary changes to my
character.

Anyway, once I get my new computer up and running, I am going to try
to learn how to program. After I try to create a Dungeons and Dragons
character creator for the blind (5th edition), providing I am
successful, I would try my luck at creating a game. I do not know if I
will have any luck/will be able to do this, but I would rather try and
fail, then simply never try.

It is my turn, now, to apologize for the lengthy message...

On 10/27/16, Paul Lemm <paul.lem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Justin,
>
> To be fair I've never quite understood how people manage to play these
> games
> myself, as I've heard of people playing mortal combat, Teken,guitar hero
> even down to things like castlevania , I think a lot of it is done by
> memorising  menu layouts,,, routes, and map lay outs  via trial   and error
> etc., in fact I occasionally  play my little boy at teken vs street fighter
> , although he sets it up since I can't navigate the menus I imagine I could
> if I wanted learn the layout of menus and navigate it to start a game
> myself, and I do occasionally win to, which is probably down to remembering
> all the moves/combo's from when I used to play, so I can see to a  degree
> how with enough memorisation  and practise that you could play some games
> in
> this way., I guess you could argue that if you have to put that much effort
> into remembering  so much about the game   to be able to play it, that does
> it then lose some of the fun of the game? I guess it all comes down to how
> much you want to play the game and how much effort you want to put into
> learning /memorising all that stuff in a game to be able  to play it, but I
> don't have any proof  of anyone playing these games, other than my somewhat
> frantic button tapping teken with my boy lol, and I do also admit  that
> some
> games would definitely be more playable  to some degrees by a blind person
> with no accessibility adaptations  and some games it just wouldn't be
> possible at all,  but and we'll probably just have to beg to differ on this
> one, but I still think a lot of games, but definitely not all of them could
> be made slightly  more accessible for blind people by the main stream
> developers if they wanted,  but your also right that unless a game is
> written from the ground up with the accessibility for the blind in mind
> from
> the start then the game will never feel like an audio game , since it will
> have not been designed like that and also would lose a lot of the game
> detail and playability  missing out on the more graphical stuff in the
> game,
> still as mentioned I'd happily give that up to get some basic way of
> navigating a final fantasy game and some text to speech to read all the
> menus etc., well I can dream lol. Anyway talking of dreaming its late here
> so off to bed, good to talk, oh and sorry for the long message!
>
> Paul
> So the
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin Jones
> Sent: 28 October 2016 00:13
> To: Gamers Discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory
>
> Okay, fair enough, no offense intended, but I'd like to see some
> sources on that, i.e. articles/blogs/something-or-other detailing how
> these people have managed to pull this off. I'd love to know how it
> would be 

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Paul Lemm]

Hi Justin,

To be fair I've never quite understood how people manage to play these games
myself, as I've heard of people playing mortal combat, Teken,guitar hero
even down to things like castlevania , I think a lot of it is done by
memorising  menu layouts,,, routes, and map lay outs  via trial   and error
etc., in fact I occasionally  play my little boy at teken vs street fighter
, although he sets it up since I can't navigate the menus I imagine I could
if I wanted learn the layout of menus and navigate it to start a game
myself, and I do occasionally win to, which is probably down to remembering
all the moves/combo's from when I used to play, so I can see to a  degree
how with enough memorisation  and practise that you could play some games in
this way., I guess you could argue that if you have to put that much effort
into remembering  so much about the game   to be able to play it, that does
it then lose some of the fun of the game? I guess it all comes down to how
much you want to play the game and how much effort you want to put into
learning /memorising all that stuff in a game to be able  to play it, but I
don't have any proof  of anyone playing these games, other than my somewhat
frantic button tapping teken with my boy lol, and I do also admit  that some
games would definitely be more playable  to some degrees by a blind person
with no accessibility adaptations  and some games it just wouldn't be
possible at all,  but and we'll probably just have to beg to differ on this
one, but I still think a lot of games, but definitely not all of them could
be made slightly  more accessible for blind people by the main stream
developers if they wanted,  but your also right that unless a game is
written from the ground up with the accessibility for the blind in mind from
the start then the game will never feel like an audio game , since it will
have not been designed like that and also would lose a lot of the game
detail and playability  missing out on the more graphical stuff in the game,
still as mentioned I'd happily give that up to get some basic way of
navigating a final fantasy game and some text to speech to read all the
menus etc., well I can dream lol. Anyway talking of dreaming its late here
so off to bed, good to talk, oh and sorry for the long message!

Paul 
So the 

-Original Message-
From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin Jones
Sent: 28 October 2016 00:13
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory

Okay, fair enough, no offense intended, but I'd like to see some
sources on that, i.e. articles/blogs/something-or-other detailing how
these people have managed to pull this off. I'd love to know how it
would be possible to play, say, Pillars of Eternity or the original
Baldur's Gate as a blind person. If this is doable, I am more than
willing to admit my error. Until then, as is so often said on the
Internet: proof or it didn't happen.

On 10/27/16, Paul Lemm <paul.lem...@gmail.com> wrote:
>   Hi Justin,
>
> Not to sound argumentative , but I believe the point  of making quake
> accessible was to prove that you could take a main stream game and make it
> accessible .  I do believe  that if it is possible to turn a game like
> Quake
> which is a completely graphical game that was designed with no
> accessibility
> in mind  and with the intent for purely sighted people to play, then
> similar
> techniques could be used for most games, as if you could incorporate text
> to
> speech for  on screen text and could implement  a system for identifying
> objects, walls, your players position and the location of enemy players
> etc. as quake does it would allow blind people to   play these games,
> admittedly it wouldn't be as blind friendly as a game designed
specifically
> for the blind, but it would definitely open up these games to be played by
> the blind  if they wanted, especially  when there are blind people  who
> manage at present  to play games like this without any accessibility
> adaptations, as I've heard of people playing all kinds of fighting games,
> old NES and SNES games and even of one person playing one of the final
> fantasy games, although I still struggle to understand how you could do
> that
> last one with no accessibility lol,, but none the less they have.
> Unfortunately  though as mentioned previously although I do think this
> could
> be written into main stream games , that it would still cost the
developers
> money and they wouldn't  recoup  the extra spend through the few extra
> copies of the games they would sell, so it is probably highly unlikely to
> happen, which is a real shame as I'd love to pick up and play one of the
> final fantasy games again  as used to love playing those games.
>
> Paul
> -Original Message-
> From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin
Jones
>

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Justin Jones]

Okay, fair enough, no offense intended, but I'd like to see some
sources on that, i.e. articles/blogs/something-or-other detailing how
these people have managed to pull this off. I'd love to know how it
would be possible to play, say, Pillars of Eternity or the original
Baldur's Gate as a blind person. If this is doable, I am more than
willing to admit my error. Until then, as is so often said on the
Internet: proof or it didn't happen.

On 10/27/16, Paul Lemm <paul.lem...@gmail.com> wrote:
>   Hi Justin,
>
> Not to sound argumentative , but I believe the point  of making quake
> accessible was to prove that you could take a main stream game and make it
> accessible .  I do believe  that if it is possible to turn a game like
> Quake
> which is a completely graphical game that was designed with no
> accessibility
> in mind  and with the intent for purely sighted people to play, then
> similar
> techniques could be used for most games, as if you could incorporate text
> to
> speech for  on screen text and could implement  a system for identifying
> objects, walls, your players position and the location of enemy players
> etc. as quake does it would allow blind people to   play these games,
> admittedly it wouldn't be as blind friendly as a game designed specifically
> for the blind, but it would definitely open up these games to be played by
> the blind  if they wanted, especially  when there are blind people  who
> manage at present  to play games like this without any accessibility
> adaptations, as I've heard of people playing all kinds of fighting games,
> old NES and SNES games and even of one person playing one of the final
> fantasy games, although I still struggle to understand how you could do
> that
> last one with no accessibility lol,, but none the less they have.
> Unfortunately  though as mentioned previously although I do think this
> could
> be written into main stream games , that it would still cost the developers
> money and they wouldn't  recoup  the extra spend through the few extra
> copies of the games they would sell, so it is probably highly unlikely to
> happen, which is a real shame as I'd love to pick up and play one of the
> final fantasy games again  as used to love playing those games.
>
> Paul
> -Original Message-
> From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin Jones
> Sent: 27 October 2016 21:44
> To: Gamers Discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory
>
> Perhaps with first-person shooters something could be done, but games
> in the role-playing, fighting and real-time strategy genres cannot be
> made accessible unless accessibility is built in from the ground up.
>
> On 10/27/16, Paul Lemm <paul.lem...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi I disagree with the statement it is not possible to make main stream
>> games accessible, I think the audio Quake project proves that you can
>> take
>> a
>> main stream game and make it accessible , unfortunately the sad truth of
> it
>> is that to the companies that make these games , the money it would cost
>> them to add in accessibility features would be a lot more than the extra
>> games they would sell because of the  added accessibility.  I did hear
> that
>> there was a chance that Microsoft may build in there text to speech
>> narrator
>> to the xBox, but again I would imagine this would be unlikely to work
>> with
>> games as the developers of these games would need to write there games
>> differently to allow screen readers to interact with them, like many
>> mainstream games on the iPhone don't work with screen readers.  So I'm
>> afraid to say that I don't think main stream developers will ever make an
>> audio game, the best we could ever hope for is slightly more
>> accessibility
>> ,
>> but the fact they are all so heavily driven by huge profits I can't see
>> that
>> happening and like others have said I see the best audio games  coming
> from
>> either our own excellent audio game programmers or indy developers.
>>
>> Paul
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin
> Jones
>> Sent: 25 October 2016 13:01
>> To: Gamers Discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory
>>
>> No, actually, there is not a way to make current mainstream games
>> accessible, unless, of course, they already have accessibility
>> features built in.
>>
>> It does not help us (blind folks), but all of Relic Entertainment's
>> games provide subtitles for all spoken dialogue in their games,
>> starting with Company of Heroes and onward.
>>
>> If we want accessible game

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Paul Lemm]

Hi Justin,

Not to sound argumentative , but I believe the point  of making quake
accessible was to prove that you could take a main stream game and make it
accessible .  I do believe  that if it is possible to turn a game like Quake
which is a completely graphical game that was designed with no accessibility
in mind  and with the intent for purely sighted people to play, then similar
techniques could be used for most games, as if you could incorporate text to
speech for  on screen text and could implement  a system for identifying
objects, walls, your players position and the location of enemy players
etc. as quake does it would allow blind people to   play these games,
admittedly it wouldn't be as blind friendly as a game designed specifically
for the blind, but it would definitely open up these games to be played by
the blind  if they wanted, especially  when there are blind people  who
manage at present  to play games like this without any accessibility
adaptations, as I've heard of people playing all kinds of fighting games,
old NES and SNES games and even of one person playing one of the final
fantasy games, although I still struggle to understand how you could do that
last one with no accessibility lol,, but none the less they have.
Unfortunately  though as mentioned previously although I do think this could
be written into main stream games , that it would still cost the developers
money and they wouldn't  recoup  the extra spend through the few extra
copies of the games they would sell, so it is probably highly unlikely to
happen, which is a real shame as I'd love to pick up and play one of the
final fantasy games again  as used to love playing those games.

Paul 
-Original Message-
From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin Jones
Sent: 27 October 2016 21:44
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory

Perhaps with first-person shooters something could be done, but games
in the role-playing, fighting and real-time strategy genres cannot be
made accessible unless accessibility is built in from the ground up.

On 10/27/16, Paul Lemm <paul.lem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi I disagree with the statement it is not possible to make main stream
> games accessible, I think the audio Quake project proves that you can take
> a
> main stream game and make it accessible , unfortunately the sad truth of
it
> is that to the companies that make these games , the money it would cost
> them to add in accessibility features would be a lot more than the extra
> games they would sell because of the  added accessibility.  I did hear
that
> there was a chance that Microsoft may build in there text to speech
> narrator
> to the xBox, but again I would imagine this would be unlikely to work with
> games as the developers of these games would need to write there games
> differently to allow screen readers to interact with them, like many
> mainstream games on the iPhone don't work with screen readers.  So I'm
> afraid to say that I don't think main stream developers will ever make an
> audio game, the best we could ever hope for is slightly more accessibility
> ,
> but the fact they are all so heavily driven by huge profits I can't see
> that
> happening and like others have said I see the best audio games  coming
from
> either our own excellent audio game programmers or indy developers.
>
> Paul
> -Original Message-
> From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin
Jones
> Sent: 25 October 2016 13:01
> To: Gamers Discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory
>
> No, actually, there is not a way to make current mainstream games
> accessible, unless, of course, they already have accessibility
> features built in.
>
> It does not help us (blind folks), but all of Relic Entertainment's
> games provide subtitles for all spoken dialogue in their games,
> starting with Company of Heroes and onward.
>
> If we want accessible games, we are going to have to find a way to
> convince a mainstream developer, i.e. any company that develops
> mainstream games, to take a crack at creating something for us. But,
> and here is the thing, it has to be presented in such a way that they
> will be able to make a profit, i.e. we (the blind community) have to
> be willing to pay for it and not complain how it is not free to play.
>
> On 10/25/16, lenron brown <lenro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Steam pisses me off majorly. The xbox one and ps4 are both accessible.
>> So if they was away for narator to pull the text from games we would
>> be golden. I still love my consoles even though you can get a lot of
>> the same games for computers. My comp only has 6 gb of ram and
>> probably not the best graphics card anyways. All I have ever really
>> wanted is for main stream games to be access

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Justin Jones]

Perhaps with first-person shooters something could be done, but games
in the role-playing, fighting and real-time strategy genres cannot be
made accessible unless accessibility is built in from the ground up.

On 10/27/16, Paul Lemm <paul.lem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi I disagree with the statement it is not possible to make main stream
> games accessible, I think the audio Quake project proves that you can take
> a
> main stream game and make it accessible , unfortunately the sad truth of it
> is that to the companies that make these games , the money it would cost
> them to add in accessibility features would be a lot more than the extra
> games they would sell because of the  added accessibility.  I did hear that
> there was a chance that Microsoft may build in there text to speech
> narrator
> to the xBox, but again I would imagine this would be unlikely to work with
> games as the developers of these games would need to write there games
> differently to allow screen readers to interact with them, like many
> mainstream games on the iPhone don't work with screen readers.  So I'm
> afraid to say that I don't think main stream developers will ever make an
> audio game, the best we could ever hope for is slightly more accessibility
> ,
> but the fact they are all so heavily driven by huge profits I can't see
> that
> happening and like others have said I see the best audio games  coming from
> either our own excellent audio game programmers or indy developers.
>
> Paul
> -Original Message-
> From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin Jones
> Sent: 25 October 2016 13:01
> To: Gamers Discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory
>
> No, actually, there is not a way to make current mainstream games
> accessible, unless, of course, they already have accessibility
> features built in.
>
> It does not help us (blind folks), but all of Relic Entertainment's
> games provide subtitles for all spoken dialogue in their games,
> starting with Company of Heroes and onward.
>
> If we want accessible games, we are going to have to find a way to
> convince a mainstream developer, i.e. any company that develops
> mainstream games, to take a crack at creating something for us. But,
> and here is the thing, it has to be presented in such a way that they
> will be able to make a profit, i.e. we (the blind community) have to
> be willing to pay for it and not complain how it is not free to play.
>
> On 10/25/16, lenron brown <lenro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Steam pisses me off majorly. The xbox one and ps4 are both accessible.
>> So if they was away for narator to pull the text from games we would
>> be golden. I still love my consoles even though you can get a lot of
>> the same games for computers. My comp only has 6 gb of ram and
>> probably not the best graphics card anyways. All I have ever really
>> wanted is for main stream games to be accessible and I am sure there
>> is away to do this.
>>
>> On 10/25/16, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
>>> Sadly "just having the sounds turned into pictures"  is easier said than
>>> done, likewise I doubt game stop (which I assume is rather like game
>>> station
>>>
>>> is over here in the Uk), would stock independently produced games.
>>>
>>> If there was an audiogames console, the plane fact is only blind people
>>> would buy it and it's doubtful anyone would develop games with graphics
>>> for
>>>
>>> it. Plus, to be brutally honest, why should I pay for additional
>>> hardware
>>> when I already have a computer and an Iphone that can play games no
>>> problem?
>>> When a sighted person buys a games consoles, there are lots of games
>>> that
>>> won't! be available on their pc, or mac or whatever, however as a blind
>>> person that is not the case, and I don't think you could find a
>>> dedicated
>>> list of developers willing to write games for a new platform when they
>>> could
>>>
>>> already develop games for Windows pc, Ios, or even Mac or Android and
>>> know
>>> they'd have a dedicated pool of users who already have the hardware and
>>> inclination to buy their games without laying out additional costs.
>>>
>>> Developing audiogames for actual graphical consoles like the playstation
>>> or
>>>
>>> xbox might be a possibility, though even there you have the problem of
>>> firstly how a blind person accesses the text in the game with no
>>> software
>>> or os based synthesisers (I have heard importing of things like sapi
>&g

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Paul Lemm]

Hi I disagree with the statement it is not possible to make main stream
games accessible, I think the audio Quake project proves that you can take a
main stream game and make it accessible , unfortunately the sad truth of it
is that to the companies that make these games , the money it would cost
them to add in accessibility features would be a lot more than the extra
games they would sell because of the  added accessibility.  I did hear that
there was a chance that Microsoft may build in there text to speech narrator
to the xBox, but again I would imagine this would be unlikely to work with
games as the developers of these games would need to write there games
differently to allow screen readers to interact with them, like many
mainstream games on the iPhone don't work with screen readers.  So I'm
afraid to say that I don't think main stream developers will ever make an
audio game, the best we could ever hope for is slightly more accessibility ,
but the fact they are all so heavily driven by huge profits I can't see that
happening and like others have said I see the best audio games  coming from
either our own excellent audio game programmers or indy developers. 

Paul 
-Original Message-
From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin Jones
Sent: 25 October 2016 13:01
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory

No, actually, there is not a way to make current mainstream games
accessible, unless, of course, they already have accessibility
features built in.

It does not help us (blind folks), but all of Relic Entertainment's
games provide subtitles for all spoken dialogue in their games,
starting with Company of Heroes and onward.

If we want accessible games, we are going to have to find a way to
convince a mainstream developer, i.e. any company that develops
mainstream games, to take a crack at creating something for us. But,
and here is the thing, it has to be presented in such a way that they
will be able to make a profit, i.e. we (the blind community) have to
be willing to pay for it and not complain how it is not free to play.

On 10/25/16, lenron brown <lenro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Steam pisses me off majorly. The xbox one and ps4 are both accessible.
> So if they was away for narator to pull the text from games we would
> be golden. I still love my consoles even though you can get a lot of
> the same games for computers. My comp only has 6 gb of ram and
> probably not the best graphics card anyways. All I have ever really
> wanted is for main stream games to be accessible and I am sure there
> is away to do this.
>
> On 10/25/16, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
>> Sadly "just having the sounds turned into pictures"  is easier said than
>> done, likewise I doubt game stop (which I assume is rather like game
>> station
>>
>> is over here in the Uk), would stock independently produced games.
>>
>> If there was an audiogames console, the plane fact is only blind people
>> would buy it and it's doubtful anyone would develop games with graphics
>> for
>>
>> it. Plus, to be brutally honest, why should I pay for additional hardware
>> when I already have a computer and an Iphone that can play games no
>> problem?
>> When a sighted person buys a games consoles, there are lots of games that
>> won't! be available on their pc, or mac or whatever, however as a blind
>> person that is not the case, and I don't think you could find a dedicated
>> list of developers willing to write games for a new platform when they
>> could
>>
>> already develop games for Windows pc, Ios, or even Mac or Android and
>> know
>> they'd have a dedicated pool of users who already have the hardware and
>> inclination to buy their games without laying out additional costs.
>>
>> Developing audiogames for actual graphical consoles like the playstation
>> or
>>
>> xbox might be a possibility, though even there you have the problem of
>> firstly how a blind person accesses the text in the game with no
>> software
>> or os based synthesisers (I have heard importing of things like sapi onto
>> Xbox and ps4 has been tried but I'm not sure how it went), also
>> manifestly
>> you have the problem that only some blind users will have consoles, and
>> of
>> the potential sighted users of games consoles it's uncertain how many
>> would
>>
>> buy an audiogame anyway making development of it worth while.
>>
>> Game consoles come from a time when most people didn't own computers,
>> and
>> when the dedicated processing power  and potentials of the hardware was
>> far
>>
>> more than a similar computer system. That however is fading these days no
>> longer the case, most people alre

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Justin Jones]

I wonder how much it cost to develop Manamon?

On 10/25/16, Shaun Everiss <sm.ever...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmmm I wouldn't run a petition at all.
> A recent studdy here has shown these to be feel good things to make us
> feel as if we are doing something.
> But online petitions are non binding.
> Ie you don't have to accept these at all.
> They could be spam, and once those sites have your email who knows what
> viruses/ spam/ fishing attacks you will then get.
> Bottem line, they don't work.
> The mainstream market just doesn't want audiogames like that.
> At least the big companies.
> I work for sonnar interactive, a small new zealand company.
> I had a lot of news I posted, and allready on the audiogames forum I see
> the post way down the first page, and by tomorrow it will be off of
> that meaning the interest is 0.
> Audio games do cost a lot we will need 5000 to 5 to make things,
> 1000 for small game.
> So yes it costs a lot to make games not the millions it may cost but
> depends what you do and use.
> For example, a lot of my sfx are from sound libraries that I pulled of
> private servers by others in the audio production industry, some I have
> directly pulled from games, others are my own but not many.
> It costs a lot to actually buy sfx, and while I have spent about 300
> bucks on royalty free sfx, it is certainly harder to justify the spend
> on high quality libraries especially when there is a lot out there.
> Voice acters cost, the website, domain, cost, everything for the games
> cost so yeah while maybe a little less in the tens to hundreds of
> thousands instead of millions I'd like to assure users that things may
> not even pan out.
>
>
>
> On 26/10/2016 4:07 a.m., Justin Jones wrote:
>> I would remind you that developing an audio game is not nearly as
>> expensive as a mainstream game. If it cost ten million dollars, then
>> yes, it would not be worth the overhead and effort to develop it. I am
>> positive that developing an audio game would be a fraction of that
>> cost and would not require nearly as much to make a profit from.
>>
>> In any instance, I have drafted letters to Blizzard, Obsidian
>> Entertainment, Bethesda Softworks and Bioware. I have not sent these
>> letters as of yet, but I would be willing to do so, if, perhaps, a few
>> of you would be willing to take a look/add your signatures. Or, we
>> could try and start up a petition to some of these companies to at
>> least consider the merits of developing a game.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> On 10/25/16, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
>>> Actually in terms of the sort of prophet that mainstream developers want,
>>> I
>>>
>>> don't think there are enough blind people to matter, even if everyond
>>> di!
>>> buy the game.
>>>
>>> These people talk in the millions, or at least in the hundreds of
>>> thousands,
>>>
>>> not in the hundreds or at most a couple of thousands that could be had
>>> from
>>>
>>> the accessible games community.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, indi developers would! recognize the  advantage, and
>>> also
>>>
>>> tend to be much more easy to contact given that all the developers for
>>> mainstream games are hidden in bunkers somehwere and impossible to talk
>>> to,
>>>
>>> that when games aren't designed by board room committees anyway.
>>>
>>> So, mainstream no, I don't think it'll happen, but good indi games? most
>>> definitely, indeed it already has, and we're likely to see more in the
>>> future.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Dark.
>>> Due to Btinternet being inconvenient, this email address will not be in
>>> use
>>>
>>> for very long. Please contact me on my other public address,
>>> d...@xgam.org.
>>>
>>> When I have a new private address, I will let everyone know.
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Justin Jones" <atreides...@gmail.com>
>>> To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:01 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory
>>>
>>>
>>>> No, actually, there is not a way to make current mainstream games
>>>> accessible, unless, of course, they already have accessibility
>>>> features built in.
>>>>
>>>> It does not help us (blind folks), but all of Relic Entertainment's
>>>> games provide subtitles for all spoken dialogue in their games,
>>>

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[lenron brown]

I would maybe have the game say when loading press X Y X to turn on
accessible mode or some such. I have even thought of ways to make
games accessible that you need to drive in.

On 10/25/16, lenron brown <lenro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For a lot of these games I would really be happy with tts for the
> menus or something. Like some of the dragon ball z games would read
> the menus or how the mkb games would say the char name when selecting.
> I am not asking for a separate game I just wouldn't mind if these
> games came with tts and maybe a couple other things that could help
> us. Really makes me wish I could start a main stream game company that
> could possibly go somewhere.
>
> On 10/25/16, englishride...@gmail.com <englishride...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Now that you mention it, Dark, indi developers are probably our best bet.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ari
>>
>>> On Oct 25, 2016, at 7:09 AM, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually in terms of the sort of prophet that mainstream developers
>>> want,
>>> I don't think there are enough blind people to matter, even if everyond
>>> di! buy the game.
>>>
>>> These people talk in the millions, or at least in the hundreds of
>>> thousands, not in the hundreds or at most a couple of thousands that
>>> could
>>> be had from the accessible games community.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, indi developers would! recognize the  advantage, and
>>> also tend to be much more easy to contact given that all the developers
>>> for mainstream games are hidden in bunkers somehwere and impossible to
>>> talk to, that when games aren't designed by board room committees
>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> So, mainstream no, I don't think it'll happen, but good indi games? most
>>> definitely, indeed it already has, and we're likely to see more in the
>>> future.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Dark.
>>> Due to Btinternet being inconvenient, this email address will not be in
>>> use for very long. Please contact me on my other public address,
>>> d...@xgam.org. When I have a new private address, I will let everyone
>>> know.
>>> - Original Message - From: "Justin Jones"
>>> <atreides...@gmail.com>
>>> To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:01 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory
>>>
>>>
>>>> No, actually, there is not a way to make current mainstream games
>>>> accessible, unless, of course, they already have accessibility
>>>> features built in.
>>>>
>>>> It does not help us (blind folks), but all of Relic Entertainment's
>>>> games provide subtitles for all spoken dialogue in their games,
>>>> starting with Company of Heroes and onward.
>>>>
>>>> If we want accessible games, we are going to have to find a way to
>>>> convince a mainstream developer, i.e. any company that develops
>>>> mainstream games, to take a crack at creating something for us. But,
>>>> and here is the thing, it has to be presented in such a way that they
>>>> will be able to make a profit, i.e. we (the blind community) have to
>>>> be willing to pay for it and not complain how it is not free to play.
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/25/16, lenron brown <lenro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Steam pisses me off majorly. The xbox one and ps4 are both accessible.
>>>>> So if they was away for narator to pull the text from games we would
>>>>> be golden. I still love my consoles even though you can get a lot of
>>>>> the same games for computers. My comp only has 6 gb of ram and
>>>>> probably not the best graphics card anyways. All I have ever really
>>>>> wanted is for main stream games to be accessible and I am sure there
>>>>> is away to do this.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/25/16, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Sadly "just having the sounds turned into pictures"  is easier said
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> done, likewise I doubt game stop (which I assume is rather like game
>>>>>> station
>>>>>>
>>>>>> is over here in the Uk), would stock independently produced games.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If there was an audiogames console, the plane fact is only blind
>>>>>> people
>>>

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[lenron brown]

For a lot of these games I would really be happy with tts for the
menus or something. Like some of the dragon ball z games would read
the menus or how the mkb games would say the char name when selecting.
I am not asking for a separate game I just wouldn't mind if these
games came with tts and maybe a couple other things that could help
us. Really makes me wish I could start a main stream game company that
could possibly go somewhere.

On 10/25/16, englishride...@gmail.com <englishride...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Now that you mention it, Dark, indi developers are probably our best bet.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Ari
>
>> On Oct 25, 2016, at 7:09 AM, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
>>
>> Actually in terms of the sort of prophet that mainstream developers want,
>> I don't think there are enough blind people to matter, even if everyond
>> di! buy the game.
>>
>> These people talk in the millions, or at least in the hundreds of
>> thousands, not in the hundreds or at most a couple of thousands that could
>> be had from the accessible games community.
>>
>> On the other hand, indi developers would! recognize the  advantage, and
>> also tend to be much more easy to contact given that all the developers
>> for mainstream games are hidden in bunkers somehwere and impossible to
>> talk to, that when games aren't designed by board room committees anyway.
>>
>> So, mainstream no, I don't think it'll happen, but good indi games? most
>> definitely, indeed it already has, and we're likely to see more in the
>> future.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Dark.
>> Due to Btinternet being inconvenient, this email address will not be in
>> use for very long. Please contact me on my other public address,
>> d...@xgam.org. When I have a new private address, I will let everyone
>> know.
>> - Original Message - From: "Justin Jones" <atreides...@gmail.com>
>> To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory
>>
>>
>>> No, actually, there is not a way to make current mainstream games
>>> accessible, unless, of course, they already have accessibility
>>> features built in.
>>>
>>> It does not help us (blind folks), but all of Relic Entertainment's
>>> games provide subtitles for all spoken dialogue in their games,
>>> starting with Company of Heroes and onward.
>>>
>>> If we want accessible games, we are going to have to find a way to
>>> convince a mainstream developer, i.e. any company that develops
>>> mainstream games, to take a crack at creating something for us. But,
>>> and here is the thing, it has to be presented in such a way that they
>>> will be able to make a profit, i.e. we (the blind community) have to
>>> be willing to pay for it and not complain how it is not free to play.
>>>
>>>> On 10/25/16, lenron brown <lenro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Steam pisses me off majorly. The xbox one and ps4 are both accessible.
>>>> So if they was away for narator to pull the text from games we would
>>>> be golden. I still love my consoles even though you can get a lot of
>>>> the same games for computers. My comp only has 6 gb of ram and
>>>> probably not the best graphics card anyways. All I have ever really
>>>> wanted is for main stream games to be accessible and I am sure there
>>>> is away to do this.
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/25/16, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
>>>>> Sadly "just having the sounds turned into pictures"  is easier said
>>>>> than
>>>>> done, likewise I doubt game stop (which I assume is rather like game
>>>>> station
>>>>>
>>>>> is over here in the Uk), would stock independently produced games.
>>>>>
>>>>> If there was an audiogames console, the plane fact is only blind
>>>>> people
>>>>> would buy it and it's doubtful anyone would develop games with
>>>>> graphics
>>>>> for
>>>>>
>>>>> it. Plus, to be brutally honest, why should I pay for additional
>>>>> hardware
>>>>> when I already have a computer and an Iphone that can play games no
>>>>> problem?
>>>>> When a sighted person buys a games consoles, there are lots of games
>>>>> that
>>>>> won't! be available on their pc, or mac or whatever, however as a
>>>>> blind
&

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[englishrider91]

Now that you mention it, Dark, indi developers are probably our best bet.


Thanks,
Ari

> On Oct 25, 2016, at 7:09 AM, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
> 
> Actually in terms of the sort of prophet that mainstream developers want, I 
> don't think there are enough blind people to matter, even if everyond di! buy 
> the game.
> 
> These people talk in the millions, or at least in the hundreds of thousands, 
> not in the hundreds or at most a couple of thousands that could be had from 
> the accessible games community.
> 
> On the other hand, indi developers would! recognize the  advantage, and also 
> tend to be much more easy to contact given that all the developers for 
> mainstream games are hidden in bunkers somehwere and impossible to talk to, 
> that when games aren't designed by board room committees anyway.
> 
> So, mainstream no, I don't think it'll happen, but good indi games? most 
> definitely, indeed it already has, and we're likely to see more in the future.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Dark.
> Due to Btinternet being inconvenient, this email address will not be in use 
> for very long. Please contact me on my other public address, d...@xgam.org. 
> When I have a new private address, I will let everyone know.
> - Original Message - From: "Justin Jones" <atreides...@gmail.com>
> To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory
> 
> 
>> No, actually, there is not a way to make current mainstream games
>> accessible, unless, of course, they already have accessibility
>> features built in.
>> 
>> It does not help us (blind folks), but all of Relic Entertainment's
>> games provide subtitles for all spoken dialogue in their games,
>> starting with Company of Heroes and onward.
>> 
>> If we want accessible games, we are going to have to find a way to
>> convince a mainstream developer, i.e. any company that develops
>> mainstream games, to take a crack at creating something for us. But,
>> and here is the thing, it has to be presented in such a way that they
>> will be able to make a profit, i.e. we (the blind community) have to
>> be willing to pay for it and not complain how it is not free to play.
>> 
>>> On 10/25/16, lenron brown <lenro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Steam pisses me off majorly. The xbox one and ps4 are both accessible.
>>> So if they was away for narator to pull the text from games we would
>>> be golden. I still love my consoles even though you can get a lot of
>>> the same games for computers. My comp only has 6 gb of ram and
>>> probably not the best graphics card anyways. All I have ever really
>>> wanted is for main stream games to be accessible and I am sure there
>>> is away to do this.
>>> 
>>>> On 10/25/16, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
>>>> Sadly "just having the sounds turned into pictures"  is easier said than
>>>> done, likewise I doubt game stop (which I assume is rather like game
>>>> station
>>>> 
>>>> is over here in the Uk), would stock independently produced games.
>>>> 
>>>> If there was an audiogames console, the plane fact is only blind people
>>>> would buy it and it's doubtful anyone would develop games with graphics
>>>> for
>>>> 
>>>> it. Plus, to be brutally honest, why should I pay for additional hardware
>>>> when I already have a computer and an Iphone that can play games no
>>>> problem?
>>>> When a sighted person buys a games consoles, there are lots of games that
>>>> won't! be available on their pc, or mac or whatever, however as a blind
>>>> person that is not the case, and I don't think you could find a dedicated
>>>> list of developers willing to write games for a new platform when they
>>>> could
>>>> 
>>>> already develop games for Windows pc, Ios, or even Mac or Android and
>>>> know
>>>> they'd have a dedicated pool of users who already have the hardware and
>>>> inclination to buy their games without laying out additional costs.
>>>> 
>>>> Developing audiogames for actual graphical consoles like the playstation
>>>> or
>>>> 
>>>> xbox might be a possibility, though even there you have the problem of
>>>> firstly how a blind person accesses the text in the game with no
>>>> software
>>>> or os based synthesisers (I have heard importing of things like sapi onto
>>>>

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Shaun Everiss]

Hmmm I wouldn't run a petition at all.
A recent studdy here has shown these to be feel good things to make us 
feel as if we are doing something.

But online petitions are non binding.
Ie you don't have to accept these at all.
They could be spam, and once those sites have your email who knows what 
viruses/ spam/ fishing attacks you will then get.

Bottem line, they don't work.
The mainstream market just doesn't want audiogames like that.
At least the big companies.
I work for sonnar interactive, a small new zealand company.
I had a lot of news I posted, and allready on the audiogames forum I see 
the post way down the first page, and by tomorrow it will be off of 
that meaning the interest is 0.
Audio games do cost a lot we will need 5000 to 5 to make things, 
1000 for small game.
So yes it costs a lot to make games not the millions it may cost but 
depends what you do and use.
For example, a lot of my sfx are from sound libraries that I pulled of 
private servers by others in the audio production industry, some I have 
directly pulled from games, others are my own but not many.
It costs a lot to actually buy sfx, and while I have spent about 300 
bucks on royalty free sfx, it is certainly harder to justify the spend 
on high quality libraries especially when there is a lot out there.
Voice acters cost, the website, domain, cost, everything for the games 
cost so yeah while maybe a little less in the tens to hundreds of 
thousands instead of millions I'd like to assure users that things may 
not even pan out.




On 26/10/2016 4:07 a.m., Justin Jones wrote:

I would remind you that developing an audio game is not nearly as
expensive as a mainstream game. If it cost ten million dollars, then
yes, it would not be worth the overhead and effort to develop it. I am
positive that developing an audio game would be a fraction of that
cost and would not require nearly as much to make a profit from.

In any instance, I have drafted letters to Blizzard, Obsidian
Entertainment, Bethesda Softworks and Bioware. I have not sent these
letters as of yet, but I would be willing to do so, if, perhaps, a few
of you would be willing to take a look/add your signatures. Or, we
could try and start up a petition to some of these companies to at
least consider the merits of developing a game.

Thoughts?

On 10/25/16, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:

Actually in terms of the sort of prophet that mainstream developers want, I

don't think there are enough blind people to matter, even if everyond di!
buy the game.

These people talk in the millions, or at least in the hundreds of thousands,

not in the hundreds or at most a couple of thousands that could be had from

the accessible games community.

On the other hand, indi developers would! recognize the  advantage, and also

tend to be much more easy to contact given that all the developers for
mainstream games are hidden in bunkers somehwere and impossible to talk to,

that when games aren't designed by board room committees anyway.

So, mainstream no, I don't think it'll happen, but good indi games? most
definitely, indeed it already has, and we're likely to see more in the
future.

All the best,

Dark.
Due to Btinternet being inconvenient, this email address will not be in use

for very long. Please contact me on my other public address, d...@xgam.org.

When I have a new private address, I will let everyone know.
- Original Message -
From: "Justin Jones" <atreides...@gmail.com>
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory



No, actually, there is not a way to make current mainstream games
accessible, unless, of course, they already have accessibility
features built in.

It does not help us (blind folks), but all of Relic Entertainment's
games provide subtitles for all spoken dialogue in their games,
starting with Company of Heroes and onward.

If we want accessible games, we are going to have to find a way to
convince a mainstream developer, i.e. any company that develops
mainstream games, to take a crack at creating something for us. But,
and here is the thing, it has to be presented in such a way that they
will be able to make a profit, i.e. we (the blind community) have to
be willing to pay for it and not complain how it is not free to play.

On 10/25/16, lenron brown <lenro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Steam pisses me off majorly. The xbox one and ps4 are both accessible.
So if they was away for narator to pull the text from games we would
be golden. I still love my consoles even though you can get a lot of
the same games for computers. My comp only has 6 gb of ram and
probably not the best graphics card anyways. All I have ever really
wanted is for main stream games to be accessible and I am sure there
is away to do this.

On 10/25/16, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:

Sadly "just having the sounds turned into pictures"  is easie

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Justin Jones]

I would remind you that developing an audio game is not nearly as
expensive as a mainstream game. If it cost ten million dollars, then
yes, it would not be worth the overhead and effort to develop it. I am
positive that developing an audio game would be a fraction of that
cost and would not require nearly as much to make a profit from.

In any instance, I have drafted letters to Blizzard, Obsidian
Entertainment, Bethesda Softworks and Bioware. I have not sent these
letters as of yet, but I would be willing to do so, if, perhaps, a few
of you would be willing to take a look/add your signatures. Or, we
could try and start up a petition to some of these companies to at
least consider the merits of developing a game.

Thoughts?

On 10/25/16, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
> Actually in terms of the sort of prophet that mainstream developers want, I
>
> don't think there are enough blind people to matter, even if everyond di!
> buy the game.
>
> These people talk in the millions, or at least in the hundreds of thousands,
>
> not in the hundreds or at most a couple of thousands that could be had from
>
> the accessible games community.
>
> On the other hand, indi developers would! recognize the  advantage, and also
>
> tend to be much more easy to contact given that all the developers for
> mainstream games are hidden in bunkers somehwere and impossible to talk to,
>
> that when games aren't designed by board room committees anyway.
>
> So, mainstream no, I don't think it'll happen, but good indi games? most
> definitely, indeed it already has, and we're likely to see more in the
> future.
>
> All the best,
>
> Dark.
> Due to Btinternet being inconvenient, this email address will not be in use
>
> for very long. Please contact me on my other public address, d...@xgam.org.
>
> When I have a new private address, I will let everyone know.
> - Original Message -
> From: "Justin Jones" <atreides...@gmail.com>
> To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory
>
>
>> No, actually, there is not a way to make current mainstream games
>> accessible, unless, of course, they already have accessibility
>> features built in.
>>
>> It does not help us (blind folks), but all of Relic Entertainment's
>> games provide subtitles for all spoken dialogue in their games,
>> starting with Company of Heroes and onward.
>>
>> If we want accessible games, we are going to have to find a way to
>> convince a mainstream developer, i.e. any company that develops
>> mainstream games, to take a crack at creating something for us. But,
>> and here is the thing, it has to be presented in such a way that they
>> will be able to make a profit, i.e. we (the blind community) have to
>> be willing to pay for it and not complain how it is not free to play.
>>
>> On 10/25/16, lenron brown <lenro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Steam pisses me off majorly. The xbox one and ps4 are both accessible.
>>> So if they was away for narator to pull the text from games we would
>>> be golden. I still love my consoles even though you can get a lot of
>>> the same games for computers. My comp only has 6 gb of ram and
>>> probably not the best graphics card anyways. All I have ever really
>>> wanted is for main stream games to be accessible and I am sure there
>>> is away to do this.
>>>
>>> On 10/25/16, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
>>>> Sadly "just having the sounds turned into pictures"  is easier said
>>>> than
>>>> done, likewise I doubt game stop (which I assume is rather like game
>>>> station
>>>>
>>>> is over here in the Uk), would stock independently produced games.
>>>>
>>>> If there was an audiogames console, the plane fact is only blind people
>>>> would buy it and it's doubtful anyone would develop games with graphics
>>>> for
>>>>
>>>> it. Plus, to be brutally honest, why should I pay for additional
>>>> hardware
>>>> when I already have a computer and an Iphone that can play games no
>>>> problem?
>>>> When a sighted person buys a games consoles, there are lots of games
>>>> that
>>>> won't! be available on their pc, or mac or whatever, however as a blind
>>>> person that is not the case, and I don't think you could find a
>>>> dedicated
>>>> list of developers willing to write games for a new platform when they
>>>> could
>>>>
>>>> already

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[dark]

Actually in terms of the sort of prophet that mainstream developers want, I 
don't think there are enough blind people to matter, even if everyond di! 
buy the game.


These people talk in the millions, or at least in the hundreds of thousands, 
not in the hundreds or at most a couple of thousands that could be had from 
the accessible games community.


On the other hand, indi developers would! recognize the  advantage, and also 
tend to be much more easy to contact given that all the developers for 
mainstream games are hidden in bunkers somehwere and impossible to talk to, 
that when games aren't designed by board room committees anyway.


So, mainstream no, I don't think it'll happen, but good indi games? most 
definitely, indeed it already has, and we're likely to see more in the 
future.


All the best,

Dark.
Due to Btinternet being inconvenient, this email address will not be in use 
for very long. Please contact me on my other public address, d...@xgam.org. 
When I have a new private address, I will let everyone know.
- Original Message - 
From: "Justin Jones" <atreides...@gmail.com>

To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory



No, actually, there is not a way to make current mainstream games
accessible, unless, of course, they already have accessibility
features built in.

It does not help us (blind folks), but all of Relic Entertainment's
games provide subtitles for all spoken dialogue in their games,
starting with Company of Heroes and onward.

If we want accessible games, we are going to have to find a way to
convince a mainstream developer, i.e. any company that develops
mainstream games, to take a crack at creating something for us. But,
and here is the thing, it has to be presented in such a way that they
will be able to make a profit, i.e. we (the blind community) have to
be willing to pay for it and not complain how it is not free to play.

On 10/25/16, lenron brown <lenro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Steam pisses me off majorly. The xbox one and ps4 are both accessible.
So if they was away for narator to pull the text from games we would
be golden. I still love my consoles even though you can get a lot of
the same games for computers. My comp only has 6 gb of ram and
probably not the best graphics card anyways. All I have ever really
wanted is for main stream games to be accessible and I am sure there
is away to do this.

On 10/25/16, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:

Sadly "just having the sounds turned into pictures"  is easier said than
done, likewise I doubt game stop (which I assume is rather like game
station

is over here in the Uk), would stock independently produced games.

If there was an audiogames console, the plane fact is only blind people
would buy it and it's doubtful anyone would develop games with graphics
for

it. Plus, to be brutally honest, why should I pay for additional 
hardware

when I already have a computer and an Iphone that can play games no
problem?
When a sighted person buys a games consoles, there are lots of games 
that

won't! be available on their pc, or mac or whatever, however as a blind
person that is not the case, and I don't think you could find a 
dedicated

list of developers willing to write games for a new platform when they
could

already develop games for Windows pc, Ios, or even Mac or Android and
know
they'd have a dedicated pool of users who already have the hardware and
inclination to buy their games without laying out additional costs.

Developing audiogames for actual graphical consoles like the playstation
or

xbox might be a possibility, though even there you have the problem of
firstly how a blind person accesses the text in the game with no
software
or os based synthesisers (I have heard importing of things like sapi 
onto

Xbox and ps4 has been tried but I'm not sure how it went), also
manifestly
you have the problem that only some blind users will have consoles, and
of
the potential sighted users of games consoles it's uncertain how many
would

buy an audiogame anyway making development of it worth while.

Game consoles come from a time when most people didn't own computers,
and
when the dedicated processing power  and potentials of the hardware was
far

more than a similar computer system. That however is fading these days 
no

longer the case, most people already own a computer or smart phone and
can
play games on it, indeed I've heard steam (irritating as it is for their
lack of access), called the next step in consoles, ie, a virtual os that
doesn't come with any hardware at all but runs on the user's own 
existing

devices.


So bottom line, I don't really think a console for the blind would work
at
all, at most it'd mean laying out  extra expense for a few users and for
developers to write for a platform with potentially even less users than
normal, and it's even less likely that such a consol

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Justin Jones]

No, actually, there is not a way to make current mainstream games
accessible, unless, of course, they already have accessibility
features built in.

It does not help us (blind folks), but all of Relic Entertainment's
games provide subtitles for all spoken dialogue in their games,
starting with Company of Heroes and onward.

If we want accessible games, we are going to have to find a way to
convince a mainstream developer, i.e. any company that develops
mainstream games, to take a crack at creating something for us. But,
and here is the thing, it has to be presented in such a way that they
will be able to make a profit, i.e. we (the blind community) have to
be willing to pay for it and not complain how it is not free to play.

On 10/25/16, lenron brown  wrote:
> Steam pisses me off majorly. The xbox one and ps4 are both accessible.
> So if they was away for narator to pull the text from games we would
> be golden. I still love my consoles even though you can get a lot of
> the same games for computers. My comp only has 6 gb of ram and
> probably not the best graphics card anyways. All I have ever really
> wanted is for main stream games to be accessible and I am sure there
> is away to do this.
>
> On 10/25/16, dark  wrote:
>> Sadly "just having the sounds turned into pictures"  is easier said than
>> done, likewise I doubt game stop (which I assume is rather like game
>> station
>>
>> is over here in the Uk), would stock independently produced games.
>>
>> If there was an audiogames console, the plane fact is only blind people
>> would buy it and it's doubtful anyone would develop games with graphics
>> for
>>
>> it. Plus, to be brutally honest, why should I pay for additional hardware
>> when I already have a computer and an Iphone that can play games no
>> problem?
>> When a sighted person buys a games consoles, there are lots of games that
>> won't! be available on their pc, or mac or whatever, however as a blind
>> person that is not the case, and I don't think you could find a dedicated
>> list of developers willing to write games for a new platform when they
>> could
>>
>> already develop games for Windows pc, Ios, or even Mac or Android and
>> know
>> they'd have a dedicated pool of users who already have the hardware and
>> inclination to buy their games without laying out additional costs.
>>
>> Developing audiogames for actual graphical consoles like the playstation
>> or
>>
>> xbox might be a possibility, though even there you have the problem of
>> firstly how a blind person accesses the text in the game with no
>> software
>> or os based synthesisers (I have heard importing of things like sapi onto
>> Xbox and ps4 has been tried but I'm not sure how it went), also
>> manifestly
>> you have the problem that only some blind users will have consoles, and
>> of
>> the potential sighted users of games consoles it's uncertain how many
>> would
>>
>> buy an audiogame anyway making development of it worth while.
>>
>> Game consoles come from a time when most people didn't own computers,
>> and
>> when the dedicated processing power  and potentials of the hardware was
>> far
>>
>> more than a similar computer system. That however is fading these days no
>> longer the case, most people already own a computer or smart phone and
>> can
>> play games on it, indeed I've heard steam (irritating as it is for their
>> lack of access), called the next step in consoles, ie, a virtual os that
>> doesn't come with any hardware at all but runs on the user's own existing
>> devices.
>>
>>
>> So bottom line, I don't really think a console for the blind would work
>> at
>> all, at most it'd mean laying out  extra expense for a few users and for
>> developers to write for a platform with potentially even less users than
>> normal, and it's even less likely that such a console would be picked up
>> by
>>
>> sighted people.
>>
>> Better focus on platforms everyone! has access too than try to create
>> another, heck look at the interest by sighted players in games like
>> pappasangre on the Iphone.
>>
>> all the best,
>>
>> Dark.
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
>> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
>> list,
>> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>>
>
>
> --
> Lenron Brown
> Cell: 985-271-2832
> Skype: ron.brown762
>
> ---
> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
> All messages are 

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[lenron brown]

Steam pisses me off majorly. The xbox one and ps4 are both accessible.
So if they was away for narator to pull the text from games we would
be golden. I still love my consoles even though you can get a lot of
the same games for computers. My comp only has 6 gb of ram and
probably not the best graphics card anyways. All I have ever really
wanted is for main stream games to be accessible and I am sure there
is away to do this.

On 10/25/16, dark  wrote:
> Sadly "just having the sounds turned into pictures"  is easier said than
> done, likewise I doubt game stop (which I assume is rather like game station
>
> is over here in the Uk), would stock independently produced games.
>
> If there was an audiogames console, the plane fact is only blind people
> would buy it and it's doubtful anyone would develop games with graphics for
>
> it. Plus, to be brutally honest, why should I pay for additional hardware
> when I already have a computer and an Iphone that can play games no
> problem?
> When a sighted person buys a games consoles, there are lots of games that
> won't! be available on their pc, or mac or whatever, however as a blind
> person that is not the case, and I don't think you could find a dedicated
> list of developers willing to write games for a new platform when they could
>
> already develop games for Windows pc, Ios, or even Mac or Android and know
> they'd have a dedicated pool of users who already have the hardware and
> inclination to buy their games without laying out additional costs.
>
> Developing audiogames for actual graphical consoles like the playstation or
>
> xbox might be a possibility, though even there you have the problem of
> firstly how a blind person accesses the text in the game with no  software
> or os based synthesisers (I have heard importing of things like sapi onto
> Xbox and ps4 has been tried but I'm not sure how it went), also manifestly
> you have the problem that only some blind users will have consoles, and of
> the potential sighted users of games consoles it's uncertain how many would
>
> buy an audiogame anyway making development of it worth while.
>
> Game consoles come from a time when most people didn't own computers,  and
> when the dedicated processing power  and potentials of the hardware was far
>
> more than a similar computer system. That however is fading these days no
> longer the case, most people already own a computer or smart phone and can
> play games on it, indeed I've heard steam (irritating as it is for their
> lack of access), called the next step in consoles, ie, a virtual os that
> doesn't come with any hardware at all but runs on the user's own existing
> devices.
>
>
> So bottom line, I don't really think a console for the blind would work at
> all, at most it'd mean laying out  extra expense for a few users and for
> developers to write for a platform with potentially even less users than
> normal, and it's even less likely that such a console would be picked up by
>
> sighted people.
>
> Better focus on platforms everyone! has access too than try to create
> another, heck look at the interest by sighted players in games like
> pappasangre on the Iphone.
>
> all the best,
>
> Dark.
>
>
> ---
> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>


-- 
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762

---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[dark]

Sadly "just having the sounds turned into pictures"  is easier said than 
done, likewise I doubt game stop (which I assume is rather like game station 
is over here in the Uk), would stock independently produced games.


If there was an audiogames console, the plane fact is only blind people 
would buy it and it's doubtful anyone would develop games with graphics for 
it. Plus, to be brutally honest, why should I pay for additional hardware 
when I already have a computer and an Iphone that can play games no problem?
When a sighted person buys a games consoles, there are lots of games that 
won't! be available on their pc, or mac or whatever, however as a blind 
person that is not the case, and I don't think you could find a dedicated 
list of developers willing to write games for a new platform when they could 
already develop games for Windows pc, Ios, or even Mac or Android and know 
they'd have a dedicated pool of users who already have the hardware and 
inclination to buy their games without laying out additional costs.


Developing audiogames for actual graphical consoles like the playstation or 
xbox might be a possibility, though even there you have the problem of 
firstly how a blind person accesses the text in the game with no  software 
or os based synthesisers (I have heard importing of things like sapi onto 
Xbox and ps4 has been tried but I'm not sure how it went), also manifestly 
you have the problem that only some blind users will have consoles, and of 
the potential sighted users of games consoles it's uncertain how many would 
buy an audiogame anyway making development of it worth while.


Game consoles come from a time when most people didn't own computers,  and 
when the dedicated processing power  and potentials of the hardware was far 
more than a similar computer system. That however is fading these days no 
longer the case, most people already own a computer or smart phone and can 
play games on it, indeed I've heard steam (irritating as it is for their 
lack of access), called the next step in consoles, ie, a virtual os that 
doesn't come with any hardware at all but runs on the user's own existing 
devices.



So bottom line, I don't really think a console for the blind would work at 
all, at most it'd mean laying out  extra expense for a few users and for 
developers to write for a platform with potentially even less users than 
normal, and it's even less likely that such a console would be picked up by 
sighted people.


Better focus on platforms everyone! has access too than try to create 
another, heck look at the interest by sighted players in games like 
pappasangre on the Iphone.


all the best,

Dark. 



---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Arianna Sepulveda]

Lol you think we're gonna get a discount because we can't see the
pictures? This argument never made sense to me in relation to movie
theaters, and it sure as heck doesn't make sense to me now. I don't
think we need any special gaming device for the blind--we just need
some mainstream games that had some damn good positional audio, as
well as gaming devices to build in some sort of basic screen reader so
that game menus and text could be read. First the device manufacturers
have to get on-board, and then we might see some mainstream games that
could be played by the blind.


Thanks,
Ari

On 10/24/16, The Life of Z  wrote:
> Well, a gaming console for the blind would put us in our own rooms with our
> own discriptive TV's, with our own games. If the sighted world wants to
> play with us all they would have to do is turn on a screen and play. We'd
> be able to get games like they do from a local game stop or somthing like
> that for at least a discount since we're not required to have pictures.
> However, if we could figure out a way to have whatever sounds are in the
> game turn into pictures for the sighted wourld so if they wantec to play
> they could. That would be nice. Maybe I've got some things messed up in the
> discription but that's a thought of mine. Besides the console itself would
> be a company made for freesource gaming. Maybe we could get the games for a
> good price and get the console for a reasonable price.
>
> On Oct 24, 2016 7:59 AM, "Justin Jones"  wrote:
>
>> Frankly, I do not understand the need for something like this. Games
>> yes, but a gaming console? What would be the point? I am asking out of
>> genuine curiosity and not to be contrary.
>>
>> On 10/23/16, The Life of Z  wrote:
>> > I wonder how we could work together to get this concept off the ground.
>> > I
>> > know that I'm not a game creator but I had a sweet idea like you about
>> the
>> > game console for the Blind. I wish their was a way we could jumpstart
>> this
>> > intresting thing. I wonder why people aren't intrested in furthering
>> > the
>> > Blind in life? It seems like other disabilities get more help in things
>> of
>> > life sometimes. I know this has nothing to do with games, but if
>> > somebody
>> > with sight or a wheelchair bound veteran would've had this concept,
>> > everybody and their parents would back them. I'm just speaking my mind
>> for
>> > once. Play on playas.
>> >
>> > On Oct 21, 2016 11:40 AM, "Travis Siegel"  wrote:
>> >
>> > No it wouldn't cost much at all.  I've already tried to fly this
>> > concept,
>> > and got turned down flat by most developers I approached.  They['re
>> > just
>> > not interested.  
>> >
>> > Using a raspberry pi as the heart, it would be a trivial matter to
>> > build
>> a
>> > menuing system, pack the sd card full of every kind of game imaginable,
>> and
>> > sell the thing for a hundred bucks or so, and still make a bit of a
>> proffit
>> > (admittedly, not much, but still ...) The problem is tht you'll need
>> games
>> > for the thing, and since it uses an arm processor (the same line as the
>> > iPhones) folks just don't want to port their windows apps to the arm
>> > processor, even though, in some cases it's as simple as recompiling
>> > with
>> a
>> > different mainstream compiler.  I thought about going ahead and making
>> > an
>> > sd card with all the stuff I could find and port on my own, then just
>> sell
>> > the sd card for a few bucks more to cover costs than anything else, and
>> > I
>> > may still do that, but without ports of things like rsgames game
>> > client,
>> > and a bit more sound variety, folks aren't going to be much interested
>> > in
>> > it.
>> >
>> > (Just for reference)
>> >
>> > This is my second attempt to float the idea of a gaming console for the
>> > blind, the first attempt was several years ago using a small credit
>> > card
>> > sized computer from parallax, and although initially folks said they
>> > were
>> > interested, once the capabilities of the chip were discussed, they all
>> gave
>> > it up as a bad idea, because it wasn't on par with modern windows
>> systems.
>> > (well duh), that's the whole point of a gaming console. But anyway,
>> that's
>> > it in a nutshell.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 10/20/2016 6:38 PM, The Life of Z wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thanks Dark that' is some incouragement. Maybe I'll be able to play it
>> >> aafter allWWWell, that was an intresting post. I think the reason  why
>> >> developers don't make any game additions for the sighted is because of
>> >> X
>> >> box 1   and playstatttion 4. I had an idea for a console for the blind
>> >> but
>> >> I don't know how to get it off the ground. It would be like a game
>> >> console
>> >> like and x--box or playstation except it could handle games for the
>> >> blind.
>> >> I'd even have a li'l button tthat you could press to have a visual
>> >> display
>> >> just 

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[The Life of Z]

Well, a gaming console for the blind would put us in our own rooms with our
own discriptive TV's, with our own games. If the sighted world wants to
play with us all they would have to do is turn on a screen and play. We'd
be able to get games like they do from a local game stop or somthing like
that for at least a discount since we're not required to have pictures.
However, if we could figure out a way to have whatever sounds are in the
game turn into pictures for the sighted wourld so if they wantec to play
they could. That would be nice. Maybe I've got some things messed up in the
discription but that's a thought of mine. Besides the console itself would
be a company made for freesource gaming. Maybe we could get the games for a
good price and get the console for a reasonable price.

On Oct 24, 2016 7:59 AM, "Justin Jones"  wrote:

> Frankly, I do not understand the need for something like this. Games
> yes, but a gaming console? What would be the point? I am asking out of
> genuine curiosity and not to be contrary.
>
> On 10/23/16, The Life of Z  wrote:
> > I wonder how we could work together to get this concept off the ground. I
> > know that I'm not a game creator but I had a sweet idea like you about
> the
> > game console for the Blind. I wish their was a way we could jumpstart
> this
> > intresting thing. I wonder why people aren't intrested in furthering the
> > Blind in life? It seems like other disabilities get more help in things
> of
> > life sometimes. I know this has nothing to do with games, but if somebody
> > with sight or a wheelchair bound veteran would've had this concept,
> > everybody and their parents would back them. I'm just speaking my mind
> for
> > once. Play on playas.
> >
> > On Oct 21, 2016 11:40 AM, "Travis Siegel"  wrote:
> >
> > No it wouldn't cost much at all.  I've already tried to fly this concept,
> > and got turned down flat by most developers I approached.  They['re just
> > not interested.  
> >
> > Using a raspberry pi as the heart, it would be a trivial matter to build
> a
> > menuing system, pack the sd card full of every kind of game imaginable,
> and
> > sell the thing for a hundred bucks or so, and still make a bit of a
> proffit
> > (admittedly, not much, but still ...) The problem is tht you'll need
> games
> > for the thing, and since it uses an arm processor (the same line as the
> > iPhones) folks just don't want to port their windows apps to the arm
> > processor, even though, in some cases it's as simple as recompiling with
> a
> > different mainstream compiler.  I thought about going ahead and making an
> > sd card with all the stuff I could find and port on my own, then just
> sell
> > the sd card for a few bucks more to cover costs than anything else, and I
> > may still do that, but without ports of things like rsgames game client,
> > and a bit more sound variety, folks aren't going to be much interested in
> > it.
> >
> > (Just for reference)
> >
> > This is my second attempt to float the idea of a gaming console for the
> > blind, the first attempt was several years ago using a small credit card
> > sized computer from parallax, and although initially folks said they were
> > interested, once the capabilities of the chip were discussed, they all
> gave
> > it up as a bad idea, because it wasn't on par with modern windows
> systems.
> > (well duh), that's the whole point of a gaming console. But anyway,
> that's
> > it in a nutshell.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/20/2016 6:38 PM, The Life of Z wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks Dark that' is some incouragement. Maybe I'll be able to play it
> >> aafter allWWWell, that was an intresting post. I think the reason  why
> >> developers don't make any game additions for the sighted is because of X
> >> box 1   and playstatttion 4. I had an idea for a console for the blind
> >> but
> >> I don't know how to get it off the ground. It would be like a game
> >> console
> >> like and x--box or playstation except it could handle games for the
> >> blind.
> >> I'd even have a li'l button tthat you could press to have a visual
> >> display
> >> just incase you had sighted family or friends that wanted to play with
> >> you.
> >> Of courrse, if I got some developers to help me bbbuild the thing, it
> >> would
> >> probably cost a bunch like everything made fffor us blind people.
> >> Somtimesss I hate that.
> >>
> >> On Oct 20, 2016 11:43 AM, "Travis Siegel"  wrote:
> >>
> >> You're likely to get a lot of responses to these questions, but I'll
> >> chime
> >>> in anyway.
> >>>
> >>> To answer the first question.
> >>>
> >>> No, it doesn't take as much room for a game for the visually impaired
> as
> >>> it does for a sighted gamer.  The reason being, although sounds can be
> >>> large, (especially high-quality ones), you don't have to deal with
> >>> graphics, which can eat considerably more space.  My son is always
> >>> buying
> >>> the 

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Justin Jones]

Frankly, I do not understand the need for something like this. Games
yes, but a gaming console? What would be the point? I am asking out of
genuine curiosity and not to be contrary.

On 10/23/16, The Life of Z  wrote:
> I wonder how we could work together to get this concept off the ground. I
> know that I'm not a game creator but I had a sweet idea like you about the
> game console for the Blind. I wish their was a way we could jumpstart this
> intresting thing. I wonder why people aren't intrested in furthering the
> Blind in life? It seems like other disabilities get more help in things of
> life sometimes. I know this has nothing to do with games, but if somebody
> with sight or a wheelchair bound veteran would've had this concept,
> everybody and their parents would back them. I'm just speaking my mind for
> once. Play on playas.
>
> On Oct 21, 2016 11:40 AM, "Travis Siegel"  wrote:
>
> No it wouldn't cost much at all.  I've already tried to fly this concept,
> and got turned down flat by most developers I approached.  They['re just
> not interested.  
>
> Using a raspberry pi as the heart, it would be a trivial matter to build a
> menuing system, pack the sd card full of every kind of game imaginable, and
> sell the thing for a hundred bucks or so, and still make a bit of a proffit
> (admittedly, not much, but still ...) The problem is tht you'll need games
> for the thing, and since it uses an arm processor (the same line as the
> iPhones) folks just don't want to port their windows apps to the arm
> processor, even though, in some cases it's as simple as recompiling with a
> different mainstream compiler.  I thought about going ahead and making an
> sd card with all the stuff I could find and port on my own, then just sell
> the sd card for a few bucks more to cover costs than anything else, and I
> may still do that, but without ports of things like rsgames game client,
> and a bit more sound variety, folks aren't going to be much interested in
> it.
>
> (Just for reference)
>
> This is my second attempt to float the idea of a gaming console for the
> blind, the first attempt was several years ago using a small credit card
> sized computer from parallax, and although initially folks said they were
> interested, once the capabilities of the chip were discussed, they all gave
> it up as a bad idea, because it wasn't on par with modern windows systems.
> (well duh), that's the whole point of a gaming console. But anyway, that's
> it in a nutshell.
>
>
>
> On 10/20/2016 6:38 PM, The Life of Z wrote:
>
>> Thanks Dark that' is some incouragement. Maybe I'll be able to play it
>> aafter allWWWell, that was an intresting post. I think the reason  why
>> developers don't make any game additions for the sighted is because of X
>> box 1   and playstatttion 4. I had an idea for a console for the blind
>> but
>> I don't know how to get it off the ground. It would be like a game
>> console
>> like and x--box or playstation except it could handle games for the
>> blind.
>> I'd even have a li'l button tthat you could press to have a visual
>> display
>> just incase you had sighted family or friends that wanted to play with
>> you.
>> Of courrse, if I got some developers to help me bbbuild the thing, it
>> would
>> probably cost a bunch like everything made fffor us blind people.
>> Somtimesss I hate that.
>>
>> On Oct 20, 2016 11:43 AM, "Travis Siegel"  wrote:
>>
>> You're likely to get a lot of responses to these questions, but I'll
>> chime
>>> in anyway.
>>>
>>> To answer the first question.
>>>
>>> No, it doesn't take as much room for a game for the visually impaired as
>>> it does for a sighted gamer.  The reason being, although sounds can be
>>> large, (especially high-quality ones), you don't have to deal with
>>> graphics, which can eat considerably more space.  My son is always
>>> buying
>>> the newest games, and these days, they're almost always several
>>> gigabytes
>>> in size.  I have yet to see an audio game that packs that big of a
>>> punch,
>>> though I'm not exactly an expert on audio games for the blind,
>>> considering
>>> I'm not a fan of windows, and only recently got another windows machine
>>> which I have done without for more than 10 years.  On the other hand,
>>> I'm
>>> quite a bit puzzled why absolutely no attempt is made by folks who make
>>> blind games to make them sighted friendly. Admittedly,it would take
>>> extra
>>> work, and in some cases, it might be more work than it's worth, but in
>>> general, when a game is made for the blind community, nothing is done to
>>> the game to make it be playable by sighted gamers.
>>>
>>> Sometimes, the effort is so minimal, it is laughable, and yet,
>>> developers
>>> of blind games do the very thing they accuse the sighted world of doing
>>> to
>>> us.   I have never released a product that wasn't usable by both
>>> sighted and blind users alike, though again, I haven't 

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[The Life of Z]

I wonder how we could work together to get this concept off the ground. I
know that I'm not a game creator but I had a sweet idea like you about the
game console for the Blind. I wish their was a way we could jumpstart this
intresting thing. I wonder why people aren't intrested in furthering the
Blind in life? It seems like other disabilities get more help in things of
life sometimes. I know this has nothing to do with games, but if somebody
with sight or a wheelchair bound veteran would've had this concept,
everybody and their parents would back them. I'm just speaking my mind for
once. Play on playas.

On Oct 21, 2016 11:40 AM, "Travis Siegel"  wrote:

No it wouldn't cost much at all.  I've already tried to fly this concept,
and got turned down flat by most developers I approached.  They['re just
not interested.  

Using a raspberry pi as the heart, it would be a trivial matter to build a
menuing system, pack the sd card full of every kind of game imaginable, and
sell the thing for a hundred bucks or so, and still make a bit of a proffit
(admittedly, not much, but still ...) The problem is tht you'll need games
for the thing, and since it uses an arm processor (the same line as the
iPhones) folks just don't want to port their windows apps to the arm
processor, even though, in some cases it's as simple as recompiling with a
different mainstream compiler.  I thought about going ahead and making an
sd card with all the stuff I could find and port on my own, then just sell
the sd card for a few bucks more to cover costs than anything else, and I
may still do that, but without ports of things like rsgames game client,
and a bit more sound variety, folks aren't going to be much interested in
it.

(Just for reference)

This is my second attempt to float the idea of a gaming console for the
blind, the first attempt was several years ago using a small credit card
sized computer from parallax, and although initially folks said they were
interested, once the capabilities of the chip were discussed, they all gave
it up as a bad idea, because it wasn't on par with modern windows systems.
(well duh), that's the whole point of a gaming console. But anyway, that's
it in a nutshell.



On 10/20/2016 6:38 PM, The Life of Z wrote:

> Thanks Dark that' is some incouragement. Maybe I'll be able to play it
> aafter allWWWell, that was an intresting post. I think the reason  why
> developers don't make any game additions for the sighted is because of X
> box 1   and playstatttion 4. I had an idea for a console for the blind but
> I don't know how to get it off the ground. It would be like a game console
> like and x--box or playstation except it could handle games for the blind.
> I'd even have a li'l button tthat you could press to have a visual display
> just incase you had sighted family or friends that wanted to play with you.
> Of courrse, if I got some developers to help me bbbuild the thing, it would
> probably cost a bunch like everything made fffor us blind people.
> Somtimesss I hate that.
>
> On Oct 20, 2016 11:43 AM, "Travis Siegel"  wrote:
>
> You're likely to get a lot of responses to these questions, but I'll chime
>> in anyway.
>>
>> To answer the first question.
>>
>> No, it doesn't take as much room for a game for the visually impaired as
>> it does for a sighted gamer.  The reason being, although sounds can be
>> large, (especially high-quality ones), you don't have to deal with
>> graphics, which can eat considerably more space.  My son is always buying
>> the newest games, and these days, they're almost always several gigabytes
>> in size.  I have yet to see an audio game that packs that big of a punch,
>> though I'm not exactly an expert on audio games for the blind, considering
>> I'm not a fan of windows, and only recently got another windows machine
>> which I have done without for more than 10 years.  On the other hand, I'm
>> quite a bit puzzled why absolutely no attempt is made by folks who make
>> blind games to make them sighted friendly. Admittedly,it would take extra
>> work, and in some cases, it might be more work than it's worth, but in
>> general, when a game is made for the blind community, nothing is done to
>> the game to make it be playable by sighted gamers.
>>
>> Sometimes, the effort is so minimal, it is laughable, and yet, developers
>> of blind games do the very thing they accuse the sighted world of doing to
>> us.   I have never released a product that wasn't usable by both
>> sighted and blind users alike, though again, I haven't been doing anything
>> at all in the windows world for more than 10 years, and most of the
>> freelance work I do has nothing to do with blind folks at all, but that's
>> beside the point.  I find it frustrating sometimes when I download a shiny
>> new game to play, only to find that my wife and children can't enjoy the
>> game with me, because there is no attempt made to give the sighted world
>> any interface at 

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Travis Siegel]

No it wouldn't cost much at all.  I've already tried to fly this 
concept, and got turned down flat by most developers I approached.  
They['re just not interested.  


Using a raspberry pi as the heart, it would be a trivial matter to build 
a menuing system, pack the sd card full of every kind of game 
imaginable, and sell the thing for a hundred bucks or so, and still make 
a bit of a proffit (admittedly, not much, but still ...) The problem is 
tht you'll need games for the thing, and since it uses an arm processor 
(the same line as the iPhones) folks just don't want to port their 
windows apps to the arm processor, even though, in some cases it's as 
simple as recompiling with a different mainstream compiler.  I thought 
about going ahead and making an sd card with all the stuff I could find 
and port on my own, then just sell the sd card for a few bucks more to 
cover costs than anything else, and I may still do that, but without 
ports of things like rsgames game client, and a bit more sound variety, 
folks aren't going to be much interested in it.


(Just for reference)

This is my second attempt to float the idea of a gaming console for the 
blind, the first attempt was several years ago using a small credit card 
sized computer from parallax, and although initially folks said they 
were interested, once the capabilities of the chip were discussed, they 
all gave it up as a bad idea, because it wasn't on par with modern 
windows systems.  (well duh), that's the whole point of a gaming 
console. But anyway, that's it in a nutshell.



On 10/20/2016 6:38 PM, The Life of Z wrote:

Thanks Dark that' is some incouragement. Maybe I'll be able to play it
aafter allWWWell, that was an intresting post. I think the reason  why
developers don't make any game additions for the sighted is because of X
box 1   and playstatttion 4. I had an idea for a console for the blind but
I don't know how to get it off the ground. It would be like a game console
like and x--box or playstation except it could handle games for the blind.
I'd even have a li'l button tthat you could press to have a visual display
just incase you had sighted family or friends that wanted to play with you.
Of courrse, if I got some developers to help me bbbuild the thing, it would
probably cost a bunch like everything made fffor us blind people.
Somtimesss I hate that.

On Oct 20, 2016 11:43 AM, "Travis Siegel"  wrote:


You're likely to get a lot of responses to these questions, but I'll chime
in anyway.

To answer the first question.

No, it doesn't take as much room for a game for the visually impaired as
it does for a sighted gamer.  The reason being, although sounds can be
large, (especially high-quality ones), you don't have to deal with
graphics, which can eat considerably more space.  My son is always buying
the newest games, and these days, they're almost always several gigabytes
in size.  I have yet to see an audio game that packs that big of a punch,
though I'm not exactly an expert on audio games for the blind, considering
I'm not a fan of windows, and only recently got another windows machine
which I have done without for more than 10 years.  On the other hand, I'm
quite a bit puzzled why absolutely no attempt is made by folks who make
blind games to make them sighted friendly. Admittedly,it would take extra
work, and in some cases, it might be more work than it's worth, but in
general, when a game is made for the blind community, nothing is done to
the game to make it be playable by sighted gamers.

Sometimes, the effort is so minimal, it is laughable, and yet, developers
of blind games do the very thing they accuse the sighted world of doing to
us.   I have never released a product that wasn't usable by both
sighted and blind users alike, though again, I haven't been doing anything
at all in the windows world for more than 10 years, and most of the
freelance work I do has nothing to do with blind folks at all, but that's
beside the point.  I find it frustrating sometimes when I download a shiny
new game to play, only to find that my wife and children can't enjoy the
game with me, because there is no attempt made to give the sighted world
any interface at all.  Case in point, rs games.  Except for the sounds,
there's absolutely no reason whatsoever why the client can't have the text
written on the screen right along with the spoken text.  Instead, the
sighted folks have to use the web interface wich is so plain, they don't
even want to bother with it.

I've been a web developer for roughly 20 years, and honestly, it's not
hard to make web sites presentable to the sighted as well as the blind if
it's done correctly.  Yes, you'll need a sighted person to look at the
thing, and say things like, move the graphic to the other side of the text,
or why does that link not have a picture, but it's not a difficult process.

As for the rest of your questions, I'll leave those for others, as I've
gotten badly off topic 

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[The Life of Z]

Thanks Dark that' is some incouragement. Maybe I'll be able to play it
aafter allWWWell, that was an intresting post. I think the reason  why
developers don't make any game additions for the sighted is because of X
box 1   and playstatttion 4. I had an idea for a console for the blind but
I don't know how to get it off the ground. It would be like a game console
like and x--box or playstation except it could handle games for the blind.
I'd even have a li'l button tthat you could press to have a visual display
just incase you had sighted family or friends that wanted to play with you.
Of courrse, if I got some developers to help me bbbuild the thing, it would
probably cost a bunch like everything made fffor us blind people.
Somtimesss I hate that.

On Oct 20, 2016 11:43 AM, "Travis Siegel"  wrote:

> You're likely to get a lot of responses to these questions, but I'll chime
> in anyway.
>
> To answer the first question.
>
> No, it doesn't take as much room for a game for the visually impaired as
> it does for a sighted gamer.  The reason being, although sounds can be
> large, (especially high-quality ones), you don't have to deal with
> graphics, which can eat considerably more space.  My son is always buying
> the newest games, and these days, they're almost always several gigabytes
> in size.  I have yet to see an audio game that packs that big of a punch,
> though I'm not exactly an expert on audio games for the blind, considering
> I'm not a fan of windows, and only recently got another windows machine
> which I have done without for more than 10 years.  On the other hand, I'm
> quite a bit puzzled why absolutely no attempt is made by folks who make
> blind games to make them sighted friendly. Admittedly,it would take extra
> work, and in some cases, it might be more work than it's worth, but in
> general, when a game is made for the blind community, nothing is done to
> the game to make it be playable by sighted gamers.
>
> Sometimes, the effort is so minimal, it is laughable, and yet, developers
> of blind games do the very thing they accuse the sighted world of doing to
> us.   I have never released a product that wasn't usable by both
> sighted and blind users alike, though again, I haven't been doing anything
> at all in the windows world for more than 10 years, and most of the
> freelance work I do has nothing to do with blind folks at all, but that's
> beside the point.  I find it frustrating sometimes when I download a shiny
> new game to play, only to find that my wife and children can't enjoy the
> game with me, because there is no attempt made to give the sighted world
> any interface at all.  Case in point, rs games.  Except for the sounds,
> there's absolutely no reason whatsoever why the client can't have the text
> written on the screen right along with the spoken text.  Instead, the
> sighted folks have to use the web interface wich is so plain, they don't
> even want to bother with it.
>
> I've been a web developer for roughly 20 years, and honestly, it's not
> hard to make web sites presentable to the sighted as well as the blind if
> it's done correctly.  Yes, you'll need a sighted person to look at the
> thing, and say things like, move the graphic to the other side of the text,
> or why does that link not have a picture, but it's not a difficult process.
>
> As for the rest of your questions, I'll leave those for others, as I've
> gotten badly off topic with this post, and while I could rant for several
> pages, it's not helpful to do so, so I'll stop here, with the expectation
> that I'll get blasted 3 ways from sunday for daring to speak such
> blastphemy, and discussions of how hard and time consuming it would be to
> make things usable by the sighted. I don't mean full out graphics with full
> motion video and such, but just a little effort put into maybe having a few
> pictures, (or as pointed about rsgames client,) just adding text instead of
> having speech only.  It's not hard, and it allows friends and family to
> play along, even if it's not the best experience in the world for them.
>
>
>
> On 10/19/2016 12:53 PM, The Life of Z wrote:
>
>> I have a question for you guys. Does it take a lot more memory for games
>> for the blind to be created or is it about the same as a game for the
>> sighted world? My second question is does it take up a lot of space for
>> all
>> you gamers out their who have PC computers? My third and final question is
>> this: is their a gamers page on youtube for the blind gamer like myself?
>> Thanks list.
>> ---
>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
>> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
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Re: [Audyssey] memory

[dark]

Hi Justin.

that is true, though also bare in mind there are a lot of indi graphical 
games as well that, while not as complex as mkx or the like still have 
fairly complex graphics, either way, adding even fairly standard graphics to 
an audiogame would be probably more work than creating the game in the first 
place.


all the best,

Dark. 



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Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Justin Jones]

Yes, I am aware of this.

On 10/20/16, dark  wrote:
> Hi Justin.
>
> that is true, though also bare in mind there are a lot of indi graphical
> games as well that, while not as complex as mkx or the like still have
> fairly complex graphics, either way, adding even fairly standard graphics to
>
> an audiogame would be probably more work than creating the game in the first
>
> place.
>
> all the best,
>
> Dark.
>
>
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-- 
Justin M. Jones, M.A.
atreides...@gmail.com
(254) 624-9155
701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802

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Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Justin Jones]

There are a lot of different complexities that go into game
programming for the sighted, e.g. 3D modeling, dynamic lighting, the
textures for each model, simulating physics where appropriate and s
on, and not least, synching speech to the face of a specific model
when they are speaking. It is very, very tricky and the average
mainstream game uses between fifty and one hundred people to develop
it. A lot of games these days see their development budgets in the
tens of millions and the video gaming industry grosses more than the
movie industry.

What is happening, or has been happening, is that many developers will
license existing technology created by other developers to assist with
the programming process. So, for example, rather than creating a
graphics engine from scratch for Mortal Kombat X, Netherrealm Studios
licensed the Unreal 4 graphics engine from Epic. This does not make
developing Mortal Kombat X any less difficult, it only solves one of
the many issues facing a developer.

Sorry, I didn't mean to go into lecture mode, but up until recently,
mainstream gaming was a big part of my life.

On 10/20/16, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
> @Travis,
>
> the simple reason most audiogames don't ahve graphics is simply that
> graphics programming is the single most complex part of making computer
> games (they're not called video games for a reason). It's not just a matter
>
> of chucking a few picktures at the screne, it has animations, drawings, and
>
> compl, if it is to look appealing really! complex programming. the few games
>
> we've had that have had full graphics, the graphics have taken the lion's
> share of the development, which is actually another reason why it is weerd
> that isn't more access the other way.
>
> You are correct that text could be added for some games like the rs ones,
> but the vast majority of audiogames would need so much work to add graphics
>
> it'd be far more complicated than makinga  new game.
>
> Also to be brutally honest, what is to stop sighted people playing
> audiogames anyway? Really the only people who are actively barred from
> audiogames are people with hearing imparements. I've played Jim kitchin's
> games with friends using the synth voice, and they're fine. yes, it takes a
>
> bit of adjustment, but hay, they're not called audio! games for no reason,
> and after all lots of sighted people listen to  audio dramas,  heck look
>
> at how ppular boppit has been.
>
> All the best,
>
> Dark.
> Due to Btinternet being inconvenient, this email address will not be in use
>
> for very long. Please contact me on my other public address, d...@xgam.org.
>
> When I have a new private address, I will let everyone know.
> - Original Message -
> From: "Travis Siegel" <tsie...@nfbcal.org>
> To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 4:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory
>
>
>> You're likely to get a lot of responses to these questions, but I'll chime
>>
>> in anyway.
>>
>> To answer the first question.
>>
>> No, it doesn't take as much room for a game for the visually impaired as
>> it does for a sighted gamer.  The reason being, although sounds can be
>> large, (especially high-quality ones), you don't have to deal with
>> graphics, which can eat considerably more space.  My son is always buying
>>
>> the newest games, and these days, they're almost always several gigabytes
>>
>> in size.  I have yet to see an audio game that packs that big of a punch,
>>
>> though I'm not exactly an expert on audio games for the blind, considering
>>
>> I'm not a fan of windows, and only recently got another windows machine
>> which I have done without for more than 10 years.  On the other hand, I'm
>>
>> quite a bit puzzled why absolutely no attempt is made by folks who make
>> blind games to make them sighted friendly. Admittedly,it would take extra
>>
>> work, and in some cases, it might be more work than it's worth, but in
>> general, when a game is made for the blind community, nothing is done to
>> the game to make it be playable by sighted gamers.
>>
>> Sometimes, the effort is so minimal, it is laughable, and yet, developers
>>
>> of blind games do the very thing they accuse the sighted world of doing to
>>
>> us.   I have never released a product that wasn't usable by both
>> sighted and blind users alike, though again, I haven't been doing anything
>>
>> at all in the windows world for more than 10 years, and most of the
>> freelance work I do has nothing to do with blind folks at all, but that's
>>
>> beside the point.  I fin

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[dark]

@Travis,

the simple reason most audiogames don't ahve graphics is simply that 
graphics programming is the single most complex part of making computer 
games (they're not called video games for a reason). It's not just a matter 
of chucking a few picktures at the screne, it has animations, drawings, and 
compl, if it is to look appealing really! complex programming. the few games 
we've had that have had full graphics, the graphics have taken the lion's 
share of the development, which is actually another reason why it is weerd 
that isn't more access the other way.


You are correct that text could be added for some games like the rs ones, 
but the vast majority of audiogames would need so much work to add graphics 
it'd be far more complicated than makinga  new game.


Also to be brutally honest, what is to stop sighted people playing 
audiogames anyway? Really the only people who are actively barred from 
audiogames are people with hearing imparements. I've played Jim kitchin's 
games with friends using the synth voice, and they're fine. yes, it takes a 
bit of adjustment, but hay, they're not called audio! games for no reason, 
and after all lots of sighted people listen to  audio dramas,  heck look 
at how ppular boppit has been.


All the best,

Dark.
Due to Btinternet being inconvenient, this email address will not be in use 
for very long. Please contact me on my other public address, d...@xgam.org. 
When I have a new private address, I will let everyone know.
- Original Message - 
From: "Travis Siegel" <tsie...@nfbcal.org>

To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory


You're likely to get a lot of responses to these questions, but I'll chime 
in anyway.


To answer the first question.

No, it doesn't take as much room for a game for the visually impaired as 
it does for a sighted gamer.  The reason being, although sounds can be 
large, (especially high-quality ones), you don't have to deal with 
graphics, which can eat considerably more space.  My son is always buying 
the newest games, and these days, they're almost always several gigabytes 
in size.  I have yet to see an audio game that packs that big of a punch, 
though I'm not exactly an expert on audio games for the blind, considering 
I'm not a fan of windows, and only recently got another windows machine 
which I have done without for more than 10 years.  On the other hand, I'm 
quite a bit puzzled why absolutely no attempt is made by folks who make 
blind games to make them sighted friendly. Admittedly,it would take extra 
work, and in some cases, it might be more work than it's worth, but in 
general, when a game is made for the blind community, nothing is done to 
the game to make it be playable by sighted gamers.


Sometimes, the effort is so minimal, it is laughable, and yet, developers 
of blind games do the very thing they accuse the sighted world of doing to 
us.   I have never released a product that wasn't usable by both 
sighted and blind users alike, though again, I haven't been doing anything 
at all in the windows world for more than 10 years, and most of the 
freelance work I do has nothing to do with blind folks at all, but that's 
beside the point.  I find it frustrating sometimes when I download a shiny 
new game to play, only to find that my wife and children can't enjoy the 
game with me, because there is no attempt made to give the sighted world 
any interface at all.  Case in point, rs games.  Except for the sounds, 
there's absolutely no reason whatsoever why the client can't have the text 
written on the screen right along with the spoken text.  Instead, the 
sighted folks have to use the web interface wich is so plain, they don't 
even want to bother with it.


I've been a web developer for roughly 20 years, and honestly, it's not 
hard to make web sites presentable to the sighted as well as the blind if 
it's done correctly.  Yes, you'll need a sighted person to look at the 
thing, and say things like, move the graphic to the other side of the 
text, or why does that link not have a picture, but it's not a difficult 
process.


As for the rest of your questions, I'll leave those for others, as I've 
gotten badly off topic with this post, and while I could rant for several 
pages, it's not helpful to do so, so I'll stop here, with the expectation 
that I'll get blasted 3 ways from sunday for daring to speak such 
blastphemy, and discussions of how hard and time consuming it would be to 
make things usable by the sighted. I don't mean full out graphics with 
full motion video and such, but just a little effort put into maybe having 
a few pictures, (or as pointed about rsgames client,) just adding text 
instead of having speech only.  It's not hard, and it allows friends and 
family to play along, even if it's not the best experience in the world 
for them.




On 10/19/2016 12:53 PM, The Lif

Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Travis Siegel]

You're likely to get a lot of responses to these questions, but I'll 
chime in anyway.


To answer the first question.

No, it doesn't take as much room for a game for the visually impaired as 
it does for a sighted gamer.  The reason being, although sounds can be 
large, (especially high-quality ones), you don't have to deal with 
graphics, which can eat considerably more space.  My son is always 
buying the newest games, and these days, they're almost always several 
gigabytes in size.  I have yet to see an audio game that packs that big 
of a punch, though I'm not exactly an expert on audio games for the 
blind, considering I'm not a fan of windows, and only recently got 
another windows machine which I have done without for more than 10 
years.  On the other hand, I'm quite a bit puzzled why absolutely no 
attempt is made by folks who make blind games to make them sighted 
friendly. Admittedly,it would take extra work, and in some cases, it 
might be more work than it's worth, but in general, when a game is made 
for the blind community, nothing is done to the game to make it be 
playable by sighted gamers.


Sometimes, the effort is so minimal, it is laughable, and yet, 
developers of blind games do the very thing they accuse the sighted 
world of doing to us.   I have never released a product that 
wasn't usable by both sighted and blind users alike, though again, I 
haven't been doing anything at all in the windows world for more than 10 
years, and most of the freelance work I do has nothing to do with blind 
folks at all, but that's beside the point.  I find it frustrating 
sometimes when I download a shiny new game to play, only to find that my 
wife and children can't enjoy the game with me, because there is no 
attempt made to give the sighted world any interface at all.  Case in 
point, rs games.  Except for the sounds, there's absolutely no reason 
whatsoever why the client can't have the text written on the screen 
right along with the spoken text.  Instead, the sighted folks have to 
use the web interface wich is so plain, they don't even want to bother 
with it.


I've been a web developer for roughly 20 years, and honestly, it's not 
hard to make web sites presentable to the sighted as well as the blind 
if it's done correctly.  Yes, you'll need a sighted person to look at 
the thing, and say things like, move the graphic to the other side of 
the text, or why does that link not have a picture, but it's not a 
difficult process.


As for the rest of your questions, I'll leave those for others, as I've 
gotten badly off topic with this post, and while I could rant for 
several pages, it's not helpful to do so, so I'll stop here, with the 
expectation that I'll get blasted 3 ways from sunday for daring to speak 
such blastphemy, and discussions of how hard and time consuming it would 
be to make things usable by the sighted. I don't mean full out graphics 
with full motion video and such, but just a little effort put into maybe 
having a few pictures, (or as pointed about rsgames client,) just adding 
text instead of having speech only.  It's not hard, and it allows 
friends and family to play along, even if it's not the best experience 
in the world for them.




On 10/19/2016 12:53 PM, The Life of Z wrote:

I have a question for you guys. Does it take a lot more memory for games
for the blind to be created or is it about the same as a game for the
sighted world? My second question is does it take up a lot of space for all
you gamers out their who have PC computers? My third and final question is
this: is their a gamers page on youtube for the blind gamer like myself?
Thanks list.
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Re: [Audyssey] memory

[The Life of Z]

That's no to bad on a computer. Af

On Oct 19, 2016 5:17 PM, "Shaun Everiss"  wrote:

> Well there have been games taking up 1-2gb but they are voiced fully and
> are story type things.
> The general game size is a bit less than that.
> The exception to this can be ren py gamebooks with voice support they can
> take up to 600mb of space.
>
>
>
> On 20/10/2016 6:47 a.m., Justin Jones wrote:
>
>> Audio games do not require nearly as much RAM as a mainstream game.
>> For one reason, they do not display graphics.
>>
>> The most hard drive space I have seen an audio game take up is around
>> 300 Megabytes or so. There might be ones larger than that, but I doubt
>> this. Mainstream games have a number of 3D model files and graphical
>> textures, along with any files containing prerendered cutscenes. Back
>> when I could still play mainstream games, I had one game that required
>> 20 Gigabytes of hard drive space to play.
>>
>>
>> On 10/19/16, The Life of Z  wrote:
>>
>>> I have a question for you guys. Does it take a lot more memory for games
>>> for the blind to be created or is it about the same as a game for the
>>> sighted world? My second question is does it take up a lot of space for
>>> all
>>> you gamers out their who have PC computers? My third and final question
>>> is
>>> this: is their a gamers page on youtube for the blind gamer like myself?
>>> Thanks list.
>>> ---
>>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
>>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
>>> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
>>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
>>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
>>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
>>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
>>> list,
>>> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Shaun Everiss]

Well there have been games taking up 1-2gb but they are voiced fully and 
are story type things.

The general game size is a bit less than that.
The exception to this can be ren py gamebooks with voice support they 
can take up to 600mb of space.




On 20/10/2016 6:47 a.m., Justin Jones wrote:

Audio games do not require nearly as much RAM as a mainstream game.
For one reason, they do not display graphics.

The most hard drive space I have seen an audio game take up is around
300 Megabytes or so. There might be ones larger than that, but I doubt
this. Mainstream games have a number of 3D model files and graphical
textures, along with any files containing prerendered cutscenes. Back
when I could still play mainstream games, I had one game that required
20 Gigabytes of hard drive space to play.


On 10/19/16, The Life of Z  wrote:

I have a question for you guys. Does it take a lot more memory for games
for the blind to be created or is it about the same as a game for the
sighted world? My second question is does it take up a lot of space for all
you gamers out their who have PC computers? My third and final question is
this: is their a gamers page on youtube for the blind gamer like myself?
Thanks list.
---
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Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Shaun Everiss]

Well there are no graphics files for the most part except when you use a 
language like unity.

Usually its just the game it is not usually that much.
Now take into mind that if sound is graphics you could have twice as 
many sound files as you have graphics so you can still take up memmory.
However take in mind that your average blind person won't have an i7 
with 16-32gb ram, a 6gb twin video card, a 5tb hard drive, and all the 
extras.
He may have 4-8gb ram a i5-7 quad, a 1-2 maybe 3gb video card if he is 
lucky.

Windows 7/8/10, a 500-2tb hdd and maybe flash storage.
However the majority like me probably only have i series or core series 
dule core units, 4gb ram, a 32 bit or 64 bit os, 1 or 2gb graphics 
500-2tb hdds, win 7-8-10 etc.
A lot may still use xp and older systems than xp it depends on what cash 
you have.

I am still at home so am able to buy a computer every so often.
Another thing, the average blindy will keep his system till his battery 
explodes he can't afford to replace it usually.
I kept my first system till I dropped it and even then I tried to keep 
it going.

The next system I kept it till it got to slow.
The system after that had issues so I chucked it away.
The next system after that I kept till the screen broke.
The next one I kept till the keyboard, cd drive and fan broke.
The current one needs a good reformat but I havn't bothered because it 
still works enough.
Its still working and maybe when its battery or something explodes I 
will get another.

Though the time of new stuff is over.
Family are retired and that means I don't have the funds I used to do.
The next one could be new, but it could also be a older second hand ebay 
or x lease system.
It could also be reverted, ie I will go back to xp because thats all I 
can afford I have no idea.
Generally, a game needs to run at minimal on a system with 2gb ram, 
maybe windows xp and thats it.
A lot of us have vista or 7, and those that took advantage and have fast 
systems now have 10.

However, I know a lot that don't have the best.
When you make games for the blind you target the mid range, now don't 
get me wrong for those that can, we do have high powered devices but 
most can't so.
All the games I own run on this i5, and plenty of games I have I have 
had from my old single core unit.
It also takes a while to code a really cpu intensive game with all the 
power.
A blind guy like me may have access to sound cards a plenty though I 
have 2 of them, a creative one and a one that came with a headset.
For those with music and other thing in mind they actually do have the 
kit, and vertual machines and such.




On 20/10/2016 5:53 a.m., The Life of Z wrote:

I have a question for you guys. Does it take a lot more memory for games
for the blind to be created or is it about the same as a game for the
sighted world? My second question is does it take up a lot of space for all
you gamers out their who have PC computers? My third and final question is
this: is their a gamers page on youtube for the blind gamer like myself?
Thanks list.
---
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If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
.



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Re: [Audyssey] memory

[dark]

Hi.

Firstly as justin said, what takes up the space and computer memory in 
graphical games, especially the 3D monstrosities these days are the graphics 
themselves and cutscenes, audio games aren't half that bad. Some these days 
do cap out at the hundred mb mark, but that's usually due to having lots of 
sound files, and even that is tiny compared to mainstream games.


As to youtube, well no, there are no specific channels or pages for 
audiogames, though some people have created Youtube let's plays of 
audiogames.
Guides are more often in the form of podcasts and audio plays and such, if 
you check audiogames.net, I usually try to include links to audio reviews 
and such on the pages for the relevant games.


hth.

Dark.
Due to Btinternet being inconvenient, this email address will not be in use 
for very long. Please contact me on my other public address, d...@xgam.org. 
When I have a new private address, I will let everyone know.
- Original Message - 
From: "The Life of Z" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 5:53 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] memory



I have a question for you guys. Does it take a lot more memory for games
for the blind to be created or is it about the same as a game for the
sighted world? My second question is does it take up a lot of space for 
all

you gamers out their who have PC computers? My third and final question is
this: is their a gamers page on youtube for the blind gamer like myself?
Thanks list.
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
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Re: [Audyssey] memory

[Justin Jones]

Audio games do not require nearly as much RAM as a mainstream game.
For one reason, they do not display graphics.

The most hard drive space I have seen an audio game take up is around
300 Megabytes or so. There might be ones larger than that, but I doubt
this. Mainstream games have a number of 3D model files and graphical
textures, along with any files containing prerendered cutscenes. Back
when I could still play mainstream games, I had one game that required
20 Gigabytes of hard drive space to play.


On 10/19/16, The Life of Z  wrote:
> I have a question for you guys. Does it take a lot more memory for games
> for the blind to be created or is it about the same as a game for the
> sighted world? My second question is does it take up a lot of space for all
> you gamers out their who have PC computers? My third and final question is
> this: is their a gamers page on youtube for the blind gamer like myself?
> Thanks list.
> ---
> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
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>


-- 
Justin M. Jones, M.A.
atreides...@gmail.com
(254) 624-9155
701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802

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Re: [Audyssey] Memory for games.

[Charles Rivard]

When it comes to getting a computer, I would think that the more RAM you can 
get for the buck, the better.





If you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished!!
-Original Message- 
From: michael barnes

Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 11:49 AM
To: gamers@audyssey.org
Subject: [Audyssey] Memory for games.

Hey.

I was wondering how much memory should a computer to have to run the
different games that we can play?
I am looking at getting a Windows tablet that I can take with me to be
able to play games.

Thanks!

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Re: [Audyssey] Memory for games.

[Josh Kennedy]

I would say that 2gb of memory for a tablet should be fine for the games 
we play.



Josh



On 6/6/2016 12:49 PM, michael barnes wrote:

Hey.

I was wondering how much memory should a computer to have to run the 
different games that we can play?
I am looking at getting a Windows tablet that I can take with me to be 
able to play games.


Thanks!

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--
sent from mozilla thunderbird


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Re: [Audyssey] Memory Train Deluxe is now available

[Steven Cantos]

Dear gamers,

 

I have played this game. I am not trying to insult the developer of this
game, but what features does it have besides it just being a simon based
game where you follow the note pattern? I thought that it might have more
features, considering that the title suggests this. Again, do not take this
offensively. Think of this as feedback from someone who has ACTUALLY PLAYED
IT. 

 

Signed,

Steven 

 

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Re: [Audyssey] Memory Train Deluxe is now available.

[Ian McNamara]

Hay Josh, Congratulations will take a look at this for sure.

Ian McNamara

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Re: [Audyssey] Memory Train Deluxe is now available.

[ishan dhami]

Hi josh sir!
is this from BGT?
Thanks
Ishan

On 9/23/14, Ian McNamara ianmcnamar...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hay Josh, Congratulations will take a look at this for sure.

 Ian McNamara

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Re: [Audyssey] Memory Train Deluxe is now available.

[Joshua Tubbs]

Yes, I did make it in BGT. I made several modifications to the Memory Train 
tutorial that make my game different.

 On Sep 23, 2014, at 12:41 PM, ishan dhami ishan1dha...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi josh sir!
 is this from BGT?
 Thanks
 Ishan
 
 On 9/23/14, Ian McNamara ianmcnamar...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hay Josh, Congratulations will take a look at this for sure.
 
 Ian McNamara
 
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Re: [Audyssey] memory train problem

[Philip Bennefall]

Hi Ben,

This isn't really the place to ask clear-cut programming/code debugging 
questions. You'd be much better off posting a topic about this to the 
Blastbay BGT forum, which is the perfect discussion board for this very 
subject.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 6:44 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] memory train problem


Hi guys,
Sorry I've been absent for a lon'n'n'n'n'n'n'n'n'ng! time, but there's been
stuff in my life that's time consuming.  Just to say.  With bgt's game
programming in practice series.  I copied and pasted all the code, as the
final part of the tutorial for memory train states you could do, I have all
the sound files, I've looked through the code several times and it just!
Won't! work!

I've put the code here:

void main()
{
show_game_window(Memory Train);
dynamic_menu menu;
menu.add_item_tts(Start game);
menu.add_item_tts(Keyboard practice);
menu.add_item_tts(Exit game);
menu.allow_escape = true;
menu.wrap = true;
menu.run(Please choose a menu item with the arrow keys, then hit enter to
activate it., true);
}

I know this isn't all the code, but this part won't run either.  Once I get
one going, hopefully I'll get the other one working as well...

Any help would be much appreciated.


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Re: [Audyssey] memory train problem

[Bryan Peterson]

I was going to suggest that myself since I'm having approximately the same 
problem. But I've been running into problems posting on that forum lately 
for some odd reason.

We are the Knights who say...Ni!
- Original Message - 
From: Philip Bennefall phi...@blastbay.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory train problem



Hi Ben,

This isn't really the place to ask clear-cut programming/code debugging 
questions. You'd be much better off posting a topic about this to the 
Blastbay BGT forum, which is the perfect discussion board for this very 
subject.


Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 6:44 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] memory train problem


Hi guys,
Sorry I've been absent for a lon'n'n'n'n'n'n'n'n'ng! time, but there's 
been

stuff in my life that's time consuming.  Just to say.  With bgt's game
programming in practice series.  I copied and pasted all the code, as the
final part of the tutorial for memory train states you could do, I have 
all

the sound files, I've looked through the code several times and it just!
Won't! work!

I've put the code here:

void main()
{
show_game_window(Memory Train);
dynamic_menu menu;
menu.add_item_tts(Start game);
menu.add_item_tts(Keyboard practice);
menu.add_item_tts(Exit game);
menu.allow_escape = true;
menu.wrap = true;
menu.run(Please choose a menu item with the arrow keys, then hit enter to
activate it., true);
}

I know this isn't all the code, but this part won't run either.  Once I 
get

one going, hopefully I'll get the other one working as well...

Any help would be much appreciated.


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Re: [Audyssey] memory train problem

[Ben]

Thanks man.  As you know I've got an account, so I'll do that tomorrow or
some time.

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Philip Bennefall
Sent: 21 January 2011 17:49
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] memory train problem

Hi Ben,

This isn't really the place to ask clear-cut programming/code debugging 
questions. You'd be much better off posting a topic about this to the 
Blastbay BGT forum, which is the perfect discussion board for this very 
subject.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk
To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 6:44 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] memory train problem


Hi guys,
Sorry I've been absent for a lon'n'n'n'n'n'n'n'n'ng! time, but there's been
stuff in my life that's time consuming.  Just to say.  With bgt's game
programming in practice series.  I copied and pasted all the code, as the
final part of the tutorial for memory train states you could do, I have all
the sound files, I've looked through the code several times and it just!
Won't! work!

I've put the code here:

void main()
{
show_game_window(Memory Train);
dynamic_menu menu;
menu.add_item_tts(Start game);
menu.add_item_tts(Keyboard practice);
menu.add_item_tts(Exit game);
menu.allow_escape = true;
menu.wrap = true;
menu.run(Please choose a menu item with the arrow keys, then hit enter to
activate it., true);
}

I know this isn't all the code, but this part won't run either.  Once I get
one going, hopefully I'll get the other one working as well...

Any help would be much appreciated.


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