Re: Image problem on tomcat
This is not the right place to get help, try the tomcat users list. http://tomcat.apache.org/lists.html P.S. you probably need to add the extension and the mime type to a configuration file. d. "Zilberstein Yuval" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 28/06/2007 16:22:02: > Hello all, > I have an image problem on the Tomcat server. > I have a picture with a special Korean format: cwsis. It is just like > any other jpg or gif image, but with a format that is not popular. > The image itself is on the tomcat server. > I am trying to display the image on a special mobile browser, by > requesting it from a jsp on the tomcat server, > But the browser can not display it. > When I am trying to display it from another apache server it works ok. > The code is as follows: > > scope="session"/> > > > http://10.171.193.85:8090/mmbox/o549d000212946200.cwsis";> > down > > Any ideas? > TIA Yuval > > TX > YuvalZ > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: Jakarta site directory no longer contains .svn directories
On 6/7/07, Thomas Vandahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Danny Angus wrote: > Yes.. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jakarta-site2.html I've never seen this before. What link would have taken me there? From jakarta.apache.org, I mean? Oh I don't know the answer to *that* question! I just knew the page was there. :-) d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta site directory no longer contains .svn directories
On 6/7/07, Thomas Vandahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Is this procedure ... documented somewhere? Yes.. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jakarta-site2.html d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] The future of Jakarta
On 5/22/07, Martin van den Bemt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It's pretty simple to solve this though (even though repeating myself here) : Let (a flattened) commons become Jakarta.. I thought that that idea was unpopular with some commons commiters on this PMC? d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] The future of Jakarta
On 5/21/07, Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 5/21/07, Danny Angus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ok "Ownership" is perhaps the wrong word, if Jakarta is being > disbanded who provides the oversight? The same people who provide oversight for any ASF project: The people doing the work. If anyone wants Jakarta to be the ASF portal to all of our Java assets, then make it so. A commit is the only vote that counts. Yes, OK, and that's what I'm trying to find out. Does anyone? or is it just me? If its just me then even without my customary modesty I'd struggle to imagine that I could provide a sensible level of attention, this requires some degree of support or we're just flogging a dead horse. I'm trying to find out whether or not it is even worth drafting a vote, or if we just want to all go home once the last active sub-projects get their TLP. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] The future of Jakarta
On 5/21/07, Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If someone wants to turn Jakarta into a Java portal, then turn Jakarta into a Java portal. Some of the codebases may still be under the Jakarta PMC umbrella, but would have little effect on using the Jakarta site as a portal to the ASF's Java assets. Ok "Ownership" is perhaps the wrong word, if Jakarta is being disbanded who provides the oversight? Anyone interested in such a thing can start now. There's no need for a vote. But it is under the auspices of the Jakarta PMC, I though there was a reluctance to see the jakarta PMC retained just for managing these resources? d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] The future of Jakarta
On 5/21/07, Jörg Schaible <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 1/ Open-up Jakarta to all committers, was vetoed 2/ Merge commons into Jakarta, was vetoed 3/ Move commons into own TLP, was vetoed So what's left in your opinion? Work with the people who cast the deadlocking vetoes to resolve their issues and uncover a compromise which is acceptable to the majority. I'm not sure why 1/ is vetoed, unless this is related to the POI confusion over M$ IP. In which case POI TLP should remove that veto. 2/ commons TLP should resolve this 3/ veto was mainly detail around name and the wording of the resolution, no reason to suppose this won't be resolved. the proposal received -1's but the people who voted -1 should work with the community to get their concerns resolved, not simply block all progress. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] The future of Jakarta
On 5/21/07, J Aaron Farr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This thread has been more quiet than I expected. Actually, thinking about it, perhaps that's because we all think we know where this is inevitably going and we're just waiting for it all to settle out. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] The future of Jakarta
On 5/21/07, J Aaron Farr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This thread has been more quiet than I expected. I thought so too. There are two points which I'd like to make from the things that have been said so far, 1/ From Ted H. "Whenever we foster healthy communities that create great software, we will create another great brand. It's what we do." That's a really good point, and one which more than anything else has raised a doubt in my mind as to the benefit of retaining the Jakarta brand. 2/ It seems that we have a consensus forming around the idea that it would be worthwhile retaining some resources in a low-maintenance way. However its not clear where the ownership of these would lie. I like the idea that http://jakarta might aggregate news content from java projects. Differentiating itself from http://projects by being the source of news about apache java projects. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] The future of Jakarta
On 5/21/07, Jörg Schaible <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Any attempt in any kind of direction has been vetoed down and for me it is pointless to bring the same arguments again in a new thread. Jorg, Searching through my mail I don't really see you advancing any "arguments" about the future of Jakarta. Perhaps you could consider repeating them for the benefit of those of us who didn't hear what you said? It would be sad if people who have an opinion choose not to express it in a thread explicity about the future of Jakarta on the pmc list just because it may have already been expressed in Commons dev or poi dev or wherever else. On the other hand if there really is the level of apathy which the inactivity in this thread hints at then the choices are pretty clear. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PROPOSAL] The future of Jakarta
Hi, Ok, I've followed the commons TLP vote thread with some interest because it seems to impact directly on the end-game for Jakarta. I believe that we have to make some pretty fundamental decisions about that future before we can fully resolve the commons TLP issues. 0/ Do we agree that the end-game is dissolution of the Jakarta PMC and closure of the project? Pro - Draws a line under the reorg effort which has gone on for 3 or 4 *years*. Con - Removes the remaining tangible & historic links between former Jakarta sub-projects. 1/ If so do we wish to preserve the Jakarta brand? (the website and possibly general@) Pro - As Ted H. says "We should stop thinking of "Jakarta" only as an entity, and go back to thinking of it as to the ASF synonym for "Java", as originally intended." With this thought in mind around 10% of the referrals to james.apache come from jakarta.apache. Con - Others consider that the effort of maintaining the resources would be unacceptable to anyone. 2/ If we believe that the brand should be preserved should the commons TLP take ownership of the brand (if/when Jakarta PMC is dissolved) Pro - Commons is an active community which continues to fulfil the jakarta==java remit. Con - Commons is not necessarily interested in the brand or maintenance of its resources. (would people from other projects step up) 3/ If we believe that a commons TLP should not own the brand are any of the alternative options acceptable? - Retain the Jakarta PMC solely to maintain the brand - Move ownership of the brand to the prc (should they agree to have it) - Move ownership of the brand to projects.apache maintainers x/ Should we consult more widely the Members and/or the Board? My own (2c) opinion is that: 0/ Yes dissolve the jakarta pmc 1/ Yes preserve the brand 2/ If commons PMC would be comfortable with this it would be my preferred choice, *and* it would resolve the naming issue because the project could be "Jakarta Commons" which is a minor change from the sub-project name Jakarta/Commons 3/ If commons PMC would be against this then I think we should approach the prc. x/ Don't know In essence are we in favour of a revolutionary end or an evolutionary one? WDYT? d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Commons moving to TLP
On 5/15/07, Jesse Kuhnert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From a practical pov isn't java already associated with the word grouping "commons apache"? No, that's the point http://commons.apache.org/ Although this commons project was supposed to replace the commons efforts in jakarta.apache and xml.apache d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Commons moving to TLP
On 5/14/07, Martin van den Bemt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If moving commons TLP is just a "twisted" (maybe a bad choice of a word) way to come back to jakarta.apache.org in the end, I am -1 on the TLP move.. IF, its a big if and one I think we need to devote some though, and a *modest* ;-) amount of email to. We currently have 2 projects moving TLP (Turbine and POI) and after that we need to start thinking about every other project at Jakarta. +1 So if the goals is to make commons Jakarta, we should aim for that, instead of artificially trying to accomplish that. IF (see above) - Fix oversight issues +1 - Be more transparent for the board +1 - Move towards a community with the same focus (= eg reusable java components) +1 - Be able to say in one sentence what Jakarta is about (is consequence of above) +1 - See where we can fit project that are in maintenance mode or not actively supported anymore. +1 - How to handle projects that don't fit well within the new focus, but work pretty well as part of Jakarta (are people waiting for being on eg 15 PMC's to be able to support these projects) Not sure which projects you're talking about here. - And Apache wide : is there only a place for projects that have a "healthy" community ? A Question for the Members to decide I think? d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Commons moving to TLP
On 5/8/07, Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [ ] +1 I support the proposal [ ] +0 I don't care [ ] -1 I'm opposed to the proposal because... -1 I would like to see the issues raised regarding the name resolved. I would also like to see the options regarding commons as a successor to the Jakarta PMC more fully explored. Once consensus is forthcoming on these point I will vote +1 to TLP for commons. I don't believe that commons TLP can be decided in isolation from consensus about the future for either a) the jakarta pmc and b) the jakarta brand. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Commons moving to TLP
On 5/14/07, Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As my random suggestion that Ted quoted points out, you can have a PMC without their having to be TLP. Least I was told that a couple of years ago either on board@ or face to face, so we could do the following: * Create the Jakarta Commons PMC, without changing the website (or even the svn maybe). * Continue to encourage Jakarta subprojects to move to TLP, go into maintenance or move over to other PMCs. * Reach a point at which we can end the Jakarta PMC, or federate or whatever. Do you mean that the resources can then be handed over to the Jakarta-commons (or whatever) PMC? I'm in favour of that idea, jakarta==jakarta-commons is the option which I think makes most sense of all for the future of Jakarta. 1/ it preserves a valuable brand 2/ commons embodies the original ethos of Jakarta 3/ commons (as we've seen hints of) still actively depends (c.f passively benefiting) upon the Jakarta brand. To close down the project and hand the "brand" to another PMC would also meet all but the most draconian interpretation of what the reorg@ discussions suggested needed to be done about the problem of Jakarta. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Looking for an incubation champion
"Oliver Zeigermann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 07/03/2007 21:31:17: > > > > Not if the code is developed outside the ASF (as seems the case here). > > Hmm, is that so? Looking at the charter > > http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/charter.html > > I could not find something like that. It is possbible to take in external projects, James accepted mime4j and jspf. Perhaps you should ask on [EMAIL PROTECTED] d. *** The information from the Student Loans Company Ltd contained in this e-mail is private and privileged. If you have received this e-mail in error be advised that any use is strictly prohibited. Please notify us and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As internet communications are capable of data corruption it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses, however we do not accept any liability or responsibility for resultant virus infection. Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. The Student Loans Company Ltd registered office is at 21 St Thomas Street, Bristol, BS1 6JS and it is registered in England Company No. 02401034, VAT No. 556 4352 32. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: News feed,
Thanks Henning, I will do. Henning Schmiedehausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 05/03/2007 12:04:53: > As you seem to be building your site with maven: If you use maven 2, I'd > like to invite you to check out > > http://velocity.apache.org/site/tools/velocity-site-news/index.html *** The information from the Student Loans Company Ltd contained in this e-mail is private and privileged. If you have received this e-mail in error be advised that any use is strictly prohibited. Please notify us and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As internet communications are capable of data corruption it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses, however we do not accept any liability or responsibility for resultant virus infection. Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. The Student Loans Company Ltd registered office is at 21 St Thomas Street, Bristol, BS1 6JS and it is registered in England Company No. 02401034, VAT No. 556 4352 32. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
News feed,
I see jakarta has a news feed, I'd like to nick the idea for James. How did you do that? d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Voting
Roland Weber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 22/12/2006 09:21:51: > Hi Danny, > > >> As we get more and more into auth, it becomes tempting to auth the > >> whole thing. Vote through the webapp and not an email, > > > > You could sign your mail with a key you register for the purpose. > > that's a big hurdle for a guest voter. It would only be necessary for binding votes to be signed. No? *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Voting
> As we get more and more into auth, it becomes tempting to auth the > whole thing. Vote through the webapp and not an email, You could sign your mail with a key you register for the purpose. > listens to emails and a script that sends out emails in a particular > format. Might work, but parsing replies would probably suck. You'd be suprised.. If the rule is that everyone must return a signed reply to the original mail and enclose their vote in [] ensuring that there's only one [] it mightn't be too hard. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: POI TLP -- constructively
> +1 to this thread (the Jakarta parts - not the let's all talk about > our kids, but if anyone wants to I'm as talkative as any other father > :) ). +1 to making progress -1 to re-running the old bile. My kids both got hamsters yesterday (early for christmas), boy was that ever exciting! :-) d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
> I am wondering about this vote though. Why now? and what's the > significance of POI/Jakarta svn access merging? To me it seems the > flattening of svn is of little significance. After a year with the > new structure, I see individual cases where committers have > cross-pollinated (in commons, perhaps) but it hasn't seemed to make a > big impact for many subprojects. Its about reaching the end of a process which was intended to stop jakarta being too big and containing insular sub-projects, a situation which was felt to be a threat to the nature of the ASF, the rest of Jakarta has pretty much accomodated this change POI have made no moves, it isn't going to go away until either POI becomes part of the flat jakarta or leaves to become a TLP, there isn't really any way that POI could be a "special case" when Ant, Avalon, Gump, James, Logging, Lucene, Maven, Jetspeed, Struts, Tapestry, Tomcat, Watchdog, and others, have had to face the same decision, and in many cases had similar reservations about both opening up and leaving. Jakarta is part of the ASF, it isn't an alternative entity. There isn't and should not be a hierarchy of management and oversight, it should be Board->PMC and no deeper than that. That means participate in flat jakarta or move up to TLP. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
> I still have no personal desire to have the same people who brought me > commons automatically in POI. > I do however welcome constructive > good-intentioned dialog Take POI out of Jakarta, seriously. The problems seem to be really around "POI vs Jakarta" the PMC are uneasy at POI's insularity, POI are uneasy at the PMC's interest in their thing. Kill two birds with one stone by applying for propomotion to TLP and answer only the Members and the Board. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
> I'm +0 for opening. I'm enthusiastic on pushing POI out of Jakarta to > remove this restriction. While I agree that POI fits Jakarta theme-wise, > this "access restriction" thing feels too much like a wart. Same here, as no-one has ack#ed my resignation I'm going to vote +0 for this. I think that if POI believe that they are in anyway different from the rest of jakarta, and are capable of making these judgements by themselves then they should seriously be thinking about becoming a TLP. I think POI should have another look at the questionnaire: http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/JakartaPMCRequestTLPBenchmark d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] proposed changes
On 12/8/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 5. Translation sites. They can't keep up, time to go I think. -1 I think this is an interesting one, perhaps we should think about setting standards for translation sites which might let us feel more comfortable linking to. along the lines of the mirrors standards.. http://www.apache.org/info/how-to-mirror.html d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] proposed changes
> 2. Vendor support. This is getting increasingly threadbare - so > raising the removal of this again. Content to be moved to the Wiki. Why not just move all of the content of all of these pages to the wiki and change the links. Or better still have a section of "wiki links" in the right hand nav for them. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opening up the PMC
> 1) Every existing committer not on the pmc receives an email asking if > they would like to join the pmc. Once that email is sent they are marked > in a file as having had the email sent and we can wash our hands until a > reply comes in. I know that this is something that we had as the "end-game" when all the re-org changes started. > > 2) Every new committer automatically gets added to the pmc. I would recommend a probation period, JAMES tends to let people find their feet as commiters then propose them for the PMC. Sometimes its weeks sometimes months, but recently it is everyone and having people eased in seems to work well. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: site change checked in, can't do svn up
thx Martin. (I can't ssh anywhere from behind work firewall.) On 04/08/06, Martin van den Bemt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You have to do that on people.apache.org in the /www/jakarta.apache.org/site directory... I done the update for you already :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: State of Slide project
On 29/07/06, J Aaron Farr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My point is, I think we need to come up with a solution that can scale across Apache so that we can send a consistent message to our users. I thought that we already had one for dormant projects: notice on the project web page that it is no longer active, close down the dev list and monitor the user list. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: site change checked in, can't do svn up
> patepstry WTF!? "Tapestry" obviously. :-D :-D d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site change checked in, can't do svn up
Hi, I've removed the refrence to the patepstry lists from http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html But i can't log in to www from hete to do svn update, Please could someone do this for me? d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: adding a link from commons.apache.org to Jakarta Commons?
- robert burrell donkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 23/03/2006 20:30:12: > i think that we need to start breaking the legal and formal organisation > from the ontological. all the components in the various commons across > apache are similar in many ways. users should really need to care which > particular committee is charged with oversight. Well said matey, I've said it a few times but it never seems to translate into anything that we can get behind and do stuff to achieve. ...snip...(good stuff, but I'm supposed to be working ;-) > i like administration being decentralised: any suitable component in any > apache project could join just by declaring the category in the DOAP. Fits with the lazy principle, having enthusiastic "users" harrasing a hard pressed volunteer administrator is a model we see time and again round here, but isn't exactly the most elegant way to do things, incentivise it, delegate the effort to the people who's goals will be achieved d. __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Cleanup pmc members
On 16/03/06, Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Poorly explained by me. The file would be deleted once it had served its > purpose. Oh OK my misunderstanding, that changes things a bit. >An alternative is a mail thread to which everyone must answer to > remain on the PMC - however a file in SVN is a lot simpler to keep track > of. ... but mail leaves an audit trail. > > Danny proposes to de-select Robert (just an example mate, I'd never do > > that:-). > > a)No votes cast. Robert goes. > > b)Some people vote +1 but Robert votes -1. He gets to stay. > > Nope, he gets to leave. A -1 from the person involved would quite simply > be a resignation, which can happen at any time. Sorry, should've said the vote would be: "I believe that the following PMC members should be removed from the PMC following an extended period of inactivity, this in no way reflects badly upon the high regard they, or their contributions, are held by this PMC. The votes will be tallied accorrding to lazy consensus, meaning any -1 will be a veto. Person X +1[ ] -1[ ]" > > This is safe from the POV that it doesn't strip people of PMC membership > > unless no-one cares enough to do anything. > > It's not as if it's hard to get back on if anyone cares to rejoin. Maybe, but we need to be clear about that. > > It achieves its goal with minimum effort on the part of the active PMC > > members. > > The mail thread recording the decision is archived in the same place and > > the same manner as all the other decisions we take. > > That's a good one. We can record the results of the svn file in an email > too. Ok, good enough. > > > The process which resulted in their election to the PMC is (more or less) > > followed in reverse. > > Symmetry is nice - but whether someone stays on the PMC or not should > really be up to just themselves - +1 means stay, -1 means go, no reply > means go after a suitable period of time. Yeah, just reverse that,and -1 means stay, anything else means go *now* removing the vagueness inherent in " a suitable period of time". > > > Cons are: > > It's a lot of mail. Lot of work to collate that. Yeah, only if people vote, this would work best where only those people who wanted to stay actually voted to veto their removal. If you pick the right list then it can work with no votes at all being cast. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Cleanup pmc members
Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 16/03/2006 08:14:08: > My proposal is that we create a file in SVN in which PMC members can list > themselves as being active. After 1 month, failure to appear in that list > will result in removal from the PMC. If it goes well we could consider > doing it periodically, or just when it feels like the numbers are getting > out of sync again. My thought is this... 1/ we have a process for decision making - email votes. 1a/ we don't have a process for managing your file, and anyway it would still require mail to be involved. 2/ we should use what works 3/ we know we're lazy so lets factor that in. What I think might be a better solution would be that we periodically vote to de-select named pmc members. The votes are tallied per lazy-consensus. Scenarios are... Danny proposes to de-select Robert (just an example mate, I'd never do that:-). a)No votes cast. Robert goes. b)Some people vote +1 but Robert votes -1. He gets to stay. c)Robert doesn't vote but someone else knows why he's temporarily unable to contribute so votes -1, He stays. Pros are: This is safe from the POV that it doesn't strip people of PMC membership unless no-one cares enough to do anything. It achieves its goal with minimum effort on the part of the active PMC members. The mail thread recording the decision is archived in the same place and the same manner as all the other decisions we take. The process which resulted in their election to the PMC is (more or less) followed in reverse. Cons are: It is open to abuse, there is no restriction on the people who can be proposed or the frequency that votes can be called. This would be mitigated by the fact that many of us are not as daft as we look. It's legitimacy could be challenged unless it was documented somewhere. Then again if someone was especially belligerent they could challenge anything I suppose, and I guess that the issue could be escalated to the board. d. __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
Martin wrote: > The result can be a couple of things (probably depending on the response) : > - Vote on them (?) I think the most straightforward thing is simply to announce that a vote will be held for which the rules are that more than a quorum of +1's and no -1's are required to remove a PMC member to emeritus status, with reinstatement being achieved by vote on application. In this way any less active (by which I don't mean "older" ;-) PMC member could assert their right to remain by voting -1and vetoing their removal, or confirm their agreement by voting +1. In theory any PMC member who is made emeritus against their will by this action has also demonstrated that they aren't paying enough attention. Jakarta has always been a meritocracy, often described as "the more you do the more responsibility you will obtain" IMHO to achieve balance and vitality at the top the converse should also be true, the less you do the more responsibility you wll lose. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limit ed. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta stats
Noel, Happy new year, Inactive as a commiter, which I took to be the definition Henri used. As a member I can (and will) still actively monitor and interfere in Jakatra PMC business, and I lurk with occasional posts on a few project lists, I'm no shrinking violet and in theory I can get all the karma I want (mua-ha-ha) but in practice I don't have anything very tangible to contribute to Jakarta anymore and much less time in which to contribute it. What I wondered was whether or not my having a PMC "seat" as an emeritus commiter could be seen as in any way holding the project back. d. --- Danny Angus Lead Technical Consultant ICT Products Development 4W - Ext: 33257 Direct Dial: +44 (0) 141 243 3257 |-+> | | "Noel J. Bergman"| | | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | >| | || | | 12/01/2006 05:53 | | | PM | | | Please respond to| | | "Jakarta General | | | List"| |-+> >-| | | | To: "Jakarta General List" | | cc: | | Subject: RE: Jakarta stats | >---------| Danny Angus wrote: > I'm one of the "1) Inactive PMC members Define inactive. Inactive as a committer? Inactive as a PMC member providing oversight to Jakarta projects? I'm in the former category, as are many, but I still actively monitor several project lists, even if I only post when I have something specific to contribute. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limit ed. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
I'm one of the "1) Inactive PMC members : 39" For historical reasons I made it onto this PMC just as the project I was really involved with (James) got promoted to TLP. I hung around to try to help make sure that Jakarta didn't die as a result of all the reorganisation, and wasn't killed off because we failed to provide adequate oversight while we carried out the controlled expansion of the PMC. On the one hand I think it may be time for me to move on, on the other hand I think that Jakarta PMC might benefit from the continuity provided by letting the interest of me and the others like me fade away as Jakarta continues to evolve. Whatever I think, I would happily relinquish my PMC vote if the active PMC members think it would help in any way. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limit ed. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GMANE
I agree with Martin (below) While we might not want to prevent people accessing our lists using these services the only *official* method is to subscribe. d. > 3. easiest path to posting a question to a list that you're not a member of, > examining the responses, and then leaving. IMHO, this is actually a reason to *not* provide a link to Gmane on our site, since it's anti-community, and community is what we are about. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limit ed. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Naming for new Jakarta subproject
>Please vote from the following shortlist of names. +0 I abstain, the shortlist is all good. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limit ed. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Copyright line in code submissions
Yeah +1, create it and we can create an "IANAL mail" storm ;-) We can create an FAQ based upon our own misunderstanding, because at least it will get the misunderstanding out in the open and allow it to be reviewed and corrected by those who know about such things. Would it be possible to have legal-faq commit mails sent to legal-discuss? It might help encourage the right people to review it. d. On 27/07/05, Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Wed, 27 Jul 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote: > > > i follow the licensing list. IIRC there was a plan to create a legal FAQ > > for committers. i might volunteer to set something in motion... > > +1, meaning create it and I'll offer ideas/additions/suggestions :) > > Hen > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Copyright line in code submissions
Robert wrote: >i sometimes find it hard to work out where opinion stops and policy >begins... Then again... it is surely the PMC's business to know or find out, and enforce? I mean, IANAL but as a manager I would think that if the PMC is charged with oversight it is surely marginally better for the PMC as a body to mis-interpret and mis-enforce centrally than for there to be n different personal mis-interpretations of legal requirements of all kinds. I would have thought that a jakarta web-page of legal FAQ would at least allow us to have an auditable standard, and if the standard is wrong it should then be wrong for all to see, wrong everywhere to the same degree and require one fix, rather than a big analysis effort up front. just my 2c.. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limit ed. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Name for commons-like area for web
Web Components. +1 It is what it says it is. Even to those who's first language may not be English. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limit ed. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VOTE: Tomcat -> TLP
+1 Danny Angus (Jakarta PMC Member) On Apr 6, 2005 4:36 PM, Ian F. Darwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As has been discussed on this list & on tomcat-dev, the Tomcat people > are interested in "moving up". > > Attached please find a Resolution to this effect from the proposed new > Tomcat PMC to the Board. > > This is a binding procedural vote to be decided by a simple majority of > those eligible and casting votes (as per > http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html). All current members of > the Jakarta PMC have binding votes. Since this involves creation of a > new project I believe we should give people a week to vote; votes must > therefore be registered by midnight Eastern time on Wednesday, 13 April > 2005. > > At that point we will tally the votes and, if the vote is in the > affirmative, forward the Resolutions to the Board. > > The question: > I vote in support of the proposal to move Tomcat to an Apache Top > Level Project as > detailed in the attached Resolution. > > [ ] +1 Vote in support > [ ] 0 Abstain > [ ] -1 Vote against > > Thanks. > Ian Darwin > > --- Draft TLP Resolution --- > Establish the Apache Tomcat Project > >WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best >interests of the Foundation and consistent with the >Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management >Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of >open-source software related to the implementation of the >Java Servlet and Java Server Pages specifications, for >distribution at no charge to the public. > >NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management >Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Tomcat PMC", be and >hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation; and >be it further > >RESOLVED, that the Apache Tomcat PMC be and hereby is >responsible for the creation and maintenance of software >related to creation and maintenance of open-source software >related to the implementation of the Java Servlet and Java >Server Pages specifications based on software licensed to >the Foundation; and be it further > >RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Tomcat" be >and hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve >at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the >Apache Tomcat PMC, and to have primary responsibility for >management of the projects within the scope of responsibility >of the Apache Tomcat PMC; and be it further > >RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and >hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the >Apache Tomcat PMC: > >Jean-Francois Arcand ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Bill Barker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Kin-man Chung ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Jean-Frederic Clere ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Ian Darwin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Tim Funk ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Henri Gomez ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Filip Hanik ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Larry Isaacs ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Jim Jagielski ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Jan Luehe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Costin Manolache ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Remy Maucherat ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Kurt Miller ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Glenn Nielsen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Amy Roh ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Peter Rossbach ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Yoav Shapira ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Mark Thomas ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Mladen Turk ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >Keith Wannamaker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > >NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Remy Maucherat >be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Tomcat, to >serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the >Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until >death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, or >until a successor is appointed; and be it further > >RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Tomcat PMC be and hereby is >tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to >encourage open development and increased participation in the >Apache Tomcat Project; and be it further > >RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Tomcat PMC be and hereby is >tasked with the migration and rationalization of >the Apache Jakarta PMC Tomcat subpr
Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change
> At this point, how about simply kicking me out and ending the problems > faster ? Just one quick vote on board@ and any future issues disappear > magically. Oh grow up. No one has criticised you, no one has complained that you are paid by JBOSS, no one has criticised your contributions, no one has prevented you from expressing your opinion in this debate or any other one, no one has suggested that you pose any problem at all. The issue is not "lets kick Remy out" the issue is *only* that "The Apache Jakarta Project and leading Tomcat contributor JBoss" implys that JBOSS is not only a contributor, but *the* major contributor. The fact is that JBOSS isn't a contributor, you guys are as individuals, and if JBoss gets this treatment then so should a load of other employers. > I will not repent/apologize/atone/change my behavior, etc, nor ask my > company to repent/apologize/atone/change its behavior, since I think > they made all the necessary adjustments already. Who amongst us can say that we're responsible for our employers actions, or that we always think they are right? Your bosses are big enough to take care of themselves. Remy, no one would expect you to defend anything. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [draft] SD Magazine: request for change
Remy wrote: > I am definitely contributing to Tomcat as part of my employment at > JBoss. I am not contributing on my own free time to Tomcat as an > individual at the moment, and (as far as I can remember, as it was a > while ago ...) have submitted a company CLA reflecting that > (http://www.apache.org/licenses/#clas). Anyway, it is obvious Apache has > the notion of company contributions. Stating otherwise is wrong, and > does not match the legal documents the ASF uses. Well said. I think that we do need to acknowledge the support employers provide by effectivly funding development. However This still makes *you* personally the contributor, albeit funded by JBOSS. No doubt your own work is prioritised and your input to Tomcat is managed by your JBOSS boss. But that indirect setting of priorities is, as it should be, the limit of JBOSS influence on Tomcat through you. > I think continuing with the current attitude would only lead my company > to reevaluate its involvement in ASF projects, and I could not really > blame them if they did. Of course, this may be what some people here > seek (hopefully, it is not and it's just my paranoia at work). >From where I sit I would prefer to see a clear distinction between the fact that some people are funded to work on ASF projects under the auspice of the ASF and the implied notion that the companies themselves somehow manage the projects. If this argument was about Sun or IBM or Oracle or Microsoft claiming to be a lead contributor we would surely want to clarify the independance of the project's management whilst also acknowedging the support it receives. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: FW: PMC & contact for Wiki Admin
> It is funny after all these years that the Apache meritocracy has only > evolved to sending "+1" votes via email. Actually I think it is significant. +1's etc. in emails fulfils 100% of our requirements, business, legal and infrastructure, and is demonstrably accessable, robust and "fault tolerant". d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
We did remove the graduated TLP's from the nav some while ago, I think it was me who did it. But put it back when people started asking for it, the idea was that many people, including some of "us" tend to go to jakarta.apache first and click links to get to ant, struts et-al. I tend to think that if we're keeping the table of promoted projects we should get away without the nav, replace it with a single link to the table if you still want to satisfy the hidebound. I think the rule could be, if we've had a link on jakarta.apache we'll keep it, if not go to www.apache. Sub projects can still list important related stuff in their own nav. d. On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 13:08:51 -0800, Will Glass-Husain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As a lurker who's been watching this conversation I have a basic question - > > Do most visitors care about whether a project is "graduated" or "related"? > > If a new user comes from an up-to-date link (or book/article), they won't > even be looking here. If they see an out-of-date reference in to the > jakarta site, usually it'll be to a direct URL (e.g. > http://jakarta.apache.org/ant) which should just forward to the new URL. I > suspect only a few people will be searching on the Jakarta home page for > ant, etc. So why not just a simple prominent sentence "Can't find what > you're looking for? Check the list of related projects at > http://www.apache.org";. > > Cheers, WILL > > - Original Message - > From: "robert burrell donkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Jakarta General List" > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:54 PM > Subject: Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project > > > i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the downside of > > ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta since > > it contains more than log4j. > > > > i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label it > > Apache Projects... > > > > - robert > > > > On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote: > > > >> > >> At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that used > >> to be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently > >> Graduated, but neither name has won fans. > >> > >> Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that it > >> involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a > >> noun. Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these. > >> > >> Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things don't > >> have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in > >> db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge. > >> > >> So, any opinions? > >> > >> Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday night. > >> > >> Hen > >> > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Which Linux distribution for Java development?
sorry I mistyped 1.2.4 for 1.4.2 ! > issue with RedHat > Enterprise and J2sdk 1.2.4, *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Which Linux distribution for Java development?
> One thing you *may* care about is using certified Java VM. You should also be aware that there are issues with combinations of JVM and Linux, at work we're still trying to resolve an issue with RedHat Enterprise and J2sdk 1.2.4, and there were significant issues with certain earlier redhat and 1.3 combinations. That said these tend not to be noticable in development, and only bite you in the arse when you proudly set your work free and watch it fail to cope with heavy load or fail to achieve high uptimes But as they we say in English, c'est la vie! d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Last call for comments Was: [site] next step - 3-tier + welcome
> There are a couple of tweaky things - like the font seems a little > bigger than it needs to be, I twiddled with James css y'day, I think the fonts there are finally OK http://james.apache.org the (extremely simple) css is in svn if you want to look. I'd be interested in theiveing the 3tier xsl though, see if it can help me with James' excessive whitespace.. where can I find it? d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] next step - 3-tier + welcome
> So either: a) we should roll back to the table style for header and > footer for the moment; or b) we should just ignore it and wait for > complaints to come in :) > Does a) sound okay? When you sell it like that its unopposable! d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] clean up
Robert, > and is any planning needed so that no toes are stepped on? An advance heads-up would warn other projects which might link to those pages. Though as a redirect wouldn't break the links I guess its not that important, James has been bitten by Jakarta changes before, though I hasten to add it is James' own fault for not moving quick enough, and anyway I don't think this would affect James. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: jakarta-site2 now live on xslt
FYI James uses XSLT with no dependance on Anakia or Jakarta-site On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 09:02:23 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, sebb wrote: > > > On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 19:15:59 -0500 (EST), Henri Yandell > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> > >> On Sun, 2 Jan 2005, sebb wrote: > >> > >>> Looks like a *lot* of other projects use the Anakia jars and/or > >>> stylesheets from jakarta-site2 - not just jakarta-tomcat-site...so > >>> perhaps those need to be restored. > >> > >> Sites with the older l&f: > >> > >> Taglibs, Velocity, BSF, ECS, JMeter, Lucene, ORO, Regexp, Slide, Tomcat, > >> Watchdog. > >> > >> However, the following all appear to be self contained/non-users: > >> > >> Taglibs, Velocity, BSF, Watchdog, Slide. > >> > >>> Sorry, should have remembered that, as it used to apply to jmeter... > >> > >> + JMeter. > >> > >> So the broken ones look like they are Tomcat, Regexp, ORO, Lucene, ECS. > >> > > > > I did a search for the string "jakarta-site2" in the build.xml,v files > > in CVS, and that produced quite a lot of hits (see > > http://www.apache.org/~sebb/js2.txt - note that the matched text is > > *followed* by the file name). > > > > Some of the matches relate to history items, but some are in the HEAD > > versions of the files, for example: > > > > http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/ant/proposal/ant-site/anakia/build.xml?only_with_tag=HEAD&view=markup > > > > http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/jakarta-commons/httpclient/build.xml?only_with_tag=HEAD&view=markup > > > > Of course we don't know if the build targets are actually still used, > > but it suggests that these files are rather more generally used. > > Both HttpClient and Ant appear to use Maven or Forrest for their sites > though, so I'd think it's a pretty low chance that they still use things. > > I think all of Commons is Mavenised, and I checked all of Jakarta in this > way to find old style l&f and then examined those by hand. Looking at the > graduated projects, Struts and James still look old style; so they've got > a good chance of still using site2. > > Looking at them, both Struts and James appear to be on XSLT variants, but > no use of the site2 jars or stylesheets. > > Still, not to say that others in your list don't use it, such as jyve or > various proposals in James etc, just nothing 'big' I think. > > Hen > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Lessons Learned
Richard, Hi. > I was wondering; what are the lessons learned? Everything you see is a lesson learned, what you see in practice is our best, but still admittedly flawed, practice. > If you were starting all over today, what things would you have > done differently? What are the blind alleys? I'm not sure that there is much, some practices have evolved and others have been abandoned or withered away, management structures are changing, but I suspect they always change for any project OS or commercial which has some life about it. I've set up commercial projects for former employees based upon "the Apache Way" and they do tend to work, it is all about empowering people to make the decisions which they are best placed to make, but at the same time ensuring peer review and oversight to ensure consistency and quality. The important thing to remember is that you're working with volunteers, hell we're all volunteers, and if you suceed they'll all be way smarter, and busier, than you are. So you have to keep the bar to contribution low. It must be easy for anyone who has the knowledge you need to contribute it. Keep the need for knowledge as close to the focus of you project as you can, don't make people have to learn how to use new technology just to participate. Don't have a requirement which makes people spend money or sign contracts in order to become a first class citizen. Value each and every contributor highly, judge people only on their merit. Keep it simple. Keep it public. Have one official communication channel for decision making, we use well publicised mailinglists for a reason, and stick to it, keep traffic on the lists so that everone can see whats going on now and what went on in the past. Encourage anyone to contribute, create a welcoming culture but let people earn your trust, don't form a clique. Don't form a clique. Don't patronise or underestimate people just because they can't use the tool or don't have english as their native tounge. Always try to get consensus. Have a clear and acceptable policy for expelling people and then try your damnedest not to ever invoke it. Make sure your product is in demand and of high quality. > Also, I have been researching and designing the build > process for these various projects. I've looked into > using Maven, in particular. It looks like you guys are > using Ant to drive your build process ~ are the > reasons based on history or did maven not provide the > flexibility you wanted? Do you like the way you are > generating your websites right now? Actually it is a decison made by the people who are going to use it, don't constrain people by imposing unnecessary boundaries. Opinion is mixed about how we generate the sites its not perfect (having several different processes each with its own strengths and weaknesses) but it works enough to get the job done. If you look around you'll see that as well as Maven and Ant there are a range of choices made by sub-projects and other Apache projects about how to manage this that or the other part of the lifecycle. Not all projects use the same version labelling, though most use a variation on a theme, not everyone uses the same wiki or bug tracking tool, though there are Apache systems available, it a matter of taste. As long as you are clear about what you are doing and what the benefit is, can justify it, and it doesn't raise legal or security issues there's no real reason why you shouldn't do it. There is an infrastructure which provides mailing lists, wiki, version control, web servers etc. But there are few hard and fast rules about what you *must* do or how you *must* do it. Those that there are are there largely for security and legal reasons, everything else is decided on its merits often from bitter experience. Jakarta is a meritocracy, I believe that that is why it works. But I think the real lesson for you is, don't ask *us*, have a look at what we do but ask your own community to make these choices. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may
RE: Mail list page
I'd be happy to see watchdog intrest directed to general@ d. |-+> | | "Shapira, Yoav" | | | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | .com>| | || | | 01/12/2004 03:19 | | | PM | | | Please respond to| | | "Jakarta General | | | List"| | || |-+> >---| | | | To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | | cc: | | Subject: RE: Mail list page | >---| Hola, >The watchdog-dev mail list appears to be gone (which makes sense). Is >there a list left for Watchdog, should its entry direct people to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] Watchdog-dev is gone. Watchdog-user is still around, but with no moderation and minimal to no activity. It's time to direct people to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think, following our discussion along these lines from about six months ago (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-general&m=108659921622873&w=2). If anything, Watchdog is more dead now than it was six months ago, because its only user at that time (Tomcat) is no longer a user. And I'd like to not have to monitor watchdog-user anymore, although if Danny wants to stay no top of it of course he's welcome to ;) Yoav Shapira http://www.yoavshapira.com This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Future JDK features - performance and stability
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:11:03 -0700, Dain Sundstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > +10 I make that 10 trillion. Did I hit a nerve there Dain? ! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Future JDK features - performance and stability
This is a bit of a rant, I know but... One thing I would like to see Sun do, from the point of view of my previous role at work, would be to devote more effort to improving the stability and performance of the Hotspot VM on all platforms. >From what I can see are a number of defects in the Hotspot VM that seriously affect the capapacity of many server products to achieve high uptimes and high throughputs. Is this experience borne out by anyone else here? Could we see some clarification of the garbage collection and optimisation mechanisms? It seems to me that there are a very large number of poorly documented options for garbage collection and optimisations which are neither specification features nor implementation features, but are in wide use by many people who are struggling to maintain high levels of service in the real world in the face of defects and failure of the JVM to behave as documented. One example is the permanent generation size, Sun tell us that allocations in the permanent generation will continue up to the maximum size of the permanent space, at which point further allocations will be from the tenured heap space. Seems sensible so far. However it appears that requests for permanent allocation trigger a full garbage collection when they cannot be satisfied in the permanent generation, this leads to the JVM thrashing and effectively defeats the notion that tenured space could be used as an overflow. The fact that this was not documented is almost as serious because it removes some of the imperative which might otherwise encourage us to profile not only hepa usage but also permanent generation requirements. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Future JDK features 2 items
Dain wrote: > I understand what you are saying, but do you believe that Sun could > actually get such a feature right? I take your point, and tend to think not. I don't believe that Sun would get it right first time, not if we consider their track record. > So, yes, I am arguing that no feature is better than a > poorly implemented feature. I wholeheartedly support that point of view! core Java is pretty much OK, and doesn't really have the issues that would justify the risk (of implementing poorly and requiring re-working later) involved with new features for which accepted work arounds exist. I personally don't like the prospect that Java is heading for bloat, and would much rather see Sun spend its time fixing the JVM than mucking about with core Java. (but I'll start a new thread for that one..) d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Future JDK features 2 items
Dain wrote: > If you want method pointers today, just get a good byte code generation > tool. Yeah I know, and I seriously believe that workarounds such as this do more to harm the so-called "purity" of Java than providing explicit language level mechanisms for method pointers. The AWT moved from Events to delegation in 1.1 Since then I have always wondered why we are compelled to delegate to Classes implementing interfaces rather than Methods implementing specified method signatures. It leads to alot of structural code which obfuscates functional code, and a lot of unnecessary plumbing to route conditional execution after the method has been invoked. Why can't we drop the extra structures and apply our pre-conditions before the method is invoked? d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: RE: Future JDK features 2 items
>> Where's the advantage of a method pointer?
> Maybe Mr. Angus wasn't going here, but behind my
> concept was work I have done in C/C++ with arrays
> of function-through-pointer for varied functionality
> depending on context.
Yes. It was in order to provide much more dynamic variation in behaviour,
but also to have that dynamism encapsulated by the implementing class.
A class would implement an interface as usual, but could dynamically return
a different method implementation from a set of methods declared internally
without recourse to multiple interfaces or classes defined purely to
provide an alternative implementation of an internal method.
I can't see why we persist in putting up with the existing long-winded
approach of defining single method inner or anonymous classes just so that
we can select a method implementation dynamically.
Other languages provide support for this kind of behaviour, and I don't
believe it needs to break any OO principles if it is properly designed.
> This approach [anonymous classes] might do the job just as well.
> What say you, Danny Angus?
It works, obviously, but it contains more meaningless boilerplate code for
structure than significant code for behaviour.
Additionally if you have a number of less trivial methods implemented it
becomes very hard for a programmer to understand the context of the block
they are working in.
Is it not true that when writing this stuff both IDE's and people have
difficulty working out exactly which set of braces to close and when?
> > The main difference is that in the earlier piece of code methods are
wrapped
> > in inner classes, which amounts to about 30 additional characters you
have to
> > type: "class FooBar { ... } implements I" for each class, one
instantiation
> > for each class and a common interface.
Yeah, and my point is why do we have to put up with this...
d.
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Future JDK features 2 items
1/ Ok don't flame me... "Method pointers" I *know* it is possible to accomplish all the delegation one might want by using polymorphism, but this often leads to unncessary screeds of boiler-plate, so I still I believe there is a case for some kind of streamlining of delegation by allowing it to be achieved on a method level rather than at a class level. For instance it might make sense for a Class to provide several sort methods, polymorphism would require this class to implement a different interface for each one, function pointers could be used instead to have a method take a parameter and return a refrence to the appropriate method thereby correctly (IMHO) encapsulating the decision/conditions within the class and not exposing it externally. 2/ Jar versioning Lets see a JVM which has the capability to accept simultaneous registration of multiple versions of a package and resolve them to satisfy dependence with an appropriate version, and without breaking the classloader model we've grown to love (or perhaps merely accept!). The version resolution could be, by default the most recent, where specified to the classloader by "specification version" the most recent implementation of the spec by "implementation version" a specific version. Manifests could specify inter-package dependance declaratively. This would surely be a huge boon to integration. (P.S. I'd love to contribute to either idea...) d *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can I use Hibernate in an Apache project without compromising the Apache License?
> The problem is that for java, there are questions about the clarity of > the provisions in the license that prevent the virality from taking > effect, which is why the ASF doesn't allow LGPLed java usage. I believe that a specific example is implementing an interface where the interface is LGPL, the question of whether or not your work is a derivative work is one for the lawyers. d *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Updating PMC bylaws
+1 d. Danny Angus *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Updating the PMC bylaws
> But those projects won't have 3 > active committers. Watchdog and ECS are good examples. IMO The Watchdog debate, that resulted in you and I accepting a monitoring role, is a good outcome. Basically Jakarta is a single ASF project, the PMC is responsible for everything, and the notion of herierchy and delegation are being phased out. Therefore we can insist upon PMC members as active commiters on active projects, but that doesn't mean that the converse, we must have active commiters on inactive projects, is true. We must have PMC members as active participants, but participation on an inactive project is as little as monitoring the mail and acting as the first point of contact for anyone who wants to revitalise the project, or providing a heads-up to the rest of the PMC should any "issue" arise. I don't think we need do more than close the mailing lists of inactive projects and direct people to this (general@) list as long as we can be confident that someone here will take an interest in any mail that arrives. Don't forget that PMC members have karma (or the right to be given karma) for all of the sub-projects, meaning that (a) no subproject should ever be without a PMC member/commiter and (b) by making the distinction be "active comiters" we're making a rod for our own backs, when we could ask for "active participants" and allow PMC members to be included in the audit of accountability even if they only read and respond to mail. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Watchdog] Dead?
> I don't think that working, used-by-users code is 'dead'. There may > not be an active community of developers, but if the code is done, it's > done. I agree. I think we should consider it as the caretakeing of the user community of a stable product, and if it ever arises, the sponsors of a new developers community. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Watchdog] Dead?
Noel wrote: > We leave the resources in place, with a notice that the project is > dormant. If it is revitalized, great. If not, what harm is there? To me it seems like an opportunity for part of jakarta to fall out of PMC oversight. I'm not suggesting that there is any legal controversy looming, but suppose there were, are we really confident that we would be aware of it? To remedy that all we really need is to ensure that there are eyes on it, and that if they go they ensure that someone else picks it up. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Watchdog] Dead?
Geir wrote: > Well, I'm a little leery about sending watchdog traffic (even if none) > to general@ - all it takes is one guy getting interested :) (My silence was due to temporary no-email-at-home, not indifference!) I'd prefer to propose the following: 1/ that a PMC vote is taken *HERE* to decide if the community is happy to see Watchdog downgraded to "inactive" 2/ If we get the expected Yes then we note the status on the website (watchdog and jakarta-site) 3/ we then replace the dev list with an autoresponder to the effect that this project is not under active development and the place for discussion is the user list. 4/ Yoav and I subscribe to and monitor the users list, on behalf of the PMC 5/ if people turn up and look keen to re-activate the development we reactivate the dev list and start voting for new commiters *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Watchdog] Dead?
Noel, >But I don't think that we need a separate TLP for it. I would leave >the project in the community that last hosted the now dormant project. Good point, perhaps we just need to organise ourselves. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Watchdog] Dead?
> First of all, I'm curious to know what you think incubation has to do with > dormant projects. It's the opposite. > Secondly, I'm not one who favors "closing" an open source project. Ever. I > didn't really agree with closing java.apache.org. Although I do agree with > closing that domain, in retrospect, I'd have moved the content to Jakarta. > In my view, dormant projects should have their scm resources left in place, > and can have their mailing addresses reflected to a communal list, such as > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (or community@, although I a separate address > might be better). I think you're right, remember that we do need to have someone somewhere answerable to the board and with oversight over any project which has public resources, whether it is active, maintenance only or unsupported end-of-life. To that end a dis-incubator seemed like a good idea around the time the apache incubator was formed. It would have a lot less to do, probably little more than list moderation, but it would give people the comfort feel that someone somewhere would be alerted to potential "issues" with projects which no longer have or need a community. If enough interest is shown in a retired project it can be re-vitalised by a visit to the incubator.. FWIW I would be happy to volunteer my time for this. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why use maillists??
> why does the Apache/Jakarta project still uses maillist? > It's a technology that was used before the invention of WWW. And boy does it ever work! I've worked on a number of commercial projects which are managed in a similar way to accomodate dispersed teams. It works, we like it, get used to it. > Everyone get's your eMail address, therefore you get spammed all the time > the and it's very inconvenient to use. Use gmane for a mail to news gateway. > Every student homepage has got it's own forum now, so why not > Apache/Jakarta?? Because of all the alternatives you might have chosen "forums" *really* suck. > I think this prooves again that Open Source is still a geek project and far > away from a professional managed software project. There are two views to this, one is that many, many, professionally managed software projects count Apache amongst their role models for team management, in fact some of the most commercial and largest software companies in the world are having to adopt a managerial approach similar to OS project management in order to "compete". The other view is that OS is indeed about geek projects, thats the point, pointy haired bosses can't write software, pointy haired bosses make us write bad software by adding irrelevant distractions like deadlines and dumb requirements. OTOH any pointy haired boss who has a valuable contribution to make can turn up and make it. If it is of any genuine value it will probably be adopted, and they can be elected onto a project as commiters. We probably have quite a few, busily writing software for Apache and keeping their pointy haired nonsense for their day jobs ;-) d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta embracing the JCP?
> Having named "leads" of any sort is the antithesis of what I would like to > see within the ASF. Fair enough, but there's no reason I can see why a JCP "lead" shouldn't be an OSS "chair", I guess the JCP needs spec leads like the ASF needs chairpeople, to be a single point of refrence from above and a single focus for oversight from below. I'm sure that a great many of us work in teams with a team leader who isn't an autocratic megalomaniac, but largely the point of contact between "above" and "below" d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache should join the open source java discussion
> What about starting by making sure Apache java projects _do_ work with > the 2 open source JVMs that are mentioned in the > article ? This is a fine idea, if we're bending the rules to the extent that our stuff won't run on any specifications compliant JVM we should address that, particularly so where it is an OS JVM. Conversely where our stuff doesn't work on an OS JVM because the JVM is at fault we should feed that back to the developers so they can make their project stronger. I hate to think how many defects have been identified and resolved in Sun's JVM as a result of ASF projects, lets make that same benefit available to OS projects too. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] HiveMind as a Jakarta sub-project
I see people marking there votes as BINDING, just for the record my +1 is binding too. |-+> | | Danny Angus | | | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | co.uk> | | || | | 03/03/2004 03:25 | | | PM | | | Please respond to| | | "Jakarta General | | | List"| | || |-+> >---| | | | To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [VOTE] HiveMind as a Jakarta sub-project | >---| [X] +1 I support this proposal [ ] -1 I don't support this proposal [ ] 0 I abstain from voting for or against this proposal d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] HiveMind as a Jakarta sub-project
[X] +1 I support this proposal [ ] -1 I don't support this proposal [ ] 0 I abstain from voting for or against this proposal d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
chairmen..
If its not too patronising of me I'd like to propose vote of thanks to Sam as outgoing chair, Sam, I know you've been more involved elsewhere lately, but from a personal point of view I've learned to respect and appreciate the low-key, mature and consensus building way in which you have steered Jakarta through a period of great change. You have worked hard to ensure that allegations of conservatism couldn't be levelled at Jakarta, and have sucessfully encouraged project after project to grow up and follow their own star. If more of us were more like you we'd've achieved so much more by now. Thanks its appreciated. On a related note, welcome Geir, I'm sure you can count on us to continue to be a bunch of cranky opinionated blowhards who couldn't reach a real decision if our lives depended upon it. :-) d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: compressed body in HTTP POST request; using Jabber for IM
Aha.. misread "content-encoding" as "content-type".. I suspect that gzip is *not* an encoding, which is something like Base64, Uuencode or Quoted-printable and is used to ensure that binary data will pass unmolested through mail transport agents (MTA's) which are only required to handle ASCII, and allowed to insert line breaks. My advice would now be to investigate the MIME form data encoding, within which gzip would be a valid Content-type, and could probably be ungzipped by a filter. d *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: compressed body in HTTP POST request; using Jabber for IM
> We were thinking of using either Tomcat or JBoss for the server, Unless you're not going to use http with JBOSS You'll find that JBOSS is Bundled with Tomcat for the web app container.. >From my extensive and brain deadening reading of the MIME rfcs I don't think you be violating the spec you quote if you used *any* legal MIME content-type (including X- ones), you might find that it just isn't supported at both ends.. Hmm. You could easily, and usefully, extend Tomcat to add this if it is not present. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RIA experiences
Hi Henri, >I'm taking a serious look at Rich Internet Applications, and I'm >investigating using FlashMX as client. >Did some of you have some experiences on this ? Yep, I've developed two server apps for Flash clients using XMLRPC (http://www.proboscis.org.uk/urbantapestries/index.html is one project), both projects made use of a framework which I wrote (at autonomous software) which included code generation for object/rdb data access classes and XMLRPC handlers. >From my POV (delivering the server) it was extremely sucessful, however overall Flash's complete inability to handle XML efficiently meant that when we compared our average calls' timing on a java client (built purely for the comparison) and the Flash client there was up to a 10 fold increase in time taken for a call on flash over java. In fact at some points Flash appeared to hang and eventually came up with a dialogue proclaiming something like "flash is taking a very long time, do you want to abandon this or continue?" Introducing timings into the mix revealed that it was Flash parsing the xml response which was killing performance. The problem increased exponentially with the size of the response. My conclusion is that you have to either keep the response xml small and make many short requests, or abandon xml or Flash in favour of something more efficient. The XML RPC guys have been talking about using gz compression on the XML, which would have helped us with bandwidth, our clients were on limited bandwidth mobile devices, perhaps this would also tip the balance in favour of making many small requests, but it wouldn't address the woefully slow and hungry XML parsing of flash. Perhaps soneone at xml.Apache would liek to write an actionscript xml parser . d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New Project Proposal
Chad, > I am an IBM employee who has developed a new type of framework Please first read: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html also read http://incubator.apache.org/ You might consider approching the incubator project (subscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) I would certainly suggest it as the best next step for you. You might consider contributing this to jakarta-commons. Alternatively you might also consider approaching one of the existing Jakarta sub-projects if you believe that there might be benefit in creating a joint project combining the two things, or even of simply donating and joining an existing sub-project. Jakarta has a high bar for entry of new sub-projects, higher still since we have been encouraged by the ASF board to "flatten" the structure of Apache. This doesn't mean that we are unable or unwilling to consider new sub-projects but it does mean that we might have to work hard to justify it. One final word of advice, Apache is not sourceforge, and whilst we do welcome new projects it will require you to convince people of its worth and you would do well to find someone who can champion your cause and do some evangelising on your behalf. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Listing on the "Third Part Support for Jakarta Products"
Submit a patch to this list in the usual way. > I would like to have our company listed under both Developer Support and Complete Solutions Providers, with the following info: *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website and Reorganisation language... a suggestion
Hi, I just had a Eureka moment, albeit a not very significant one, and I want to brain dump... I read this headine on TSS "The Apache Jakarta team announces Lucene 1.3 Final" It set me to thinking about the issue of using "product" on the website against the more correct, but less newbie friendly "sub-project" and the notion that umbrella projects are not "well thought of", and how we should be dealing with it. So I though "Hey 'TEAM'" is a *great* word. To deal with the first thing first, Team might be a better word than Product for headings on the website, you decide. Secondly I think if we're going to go down the route of a single inclusive project (discussed here and elsewhere ad-nauseam) we can retain some degree of concrete identity for the (former) sub-projects by introducing the notion of "Teams" so that Jakarta would be The project, and we'd all be on the PMC and possibly have Karma throughout, etc.etc. but we would also belong to those Teams that suit us, so we'd have the Tomcat Team, the POI Team etc. which would restore the small but necessary degree of separation which (IMO) we really do need for the sake of sanity. A Team would be a weak association (unlike the strong association of a commiter to a codebase) of commiters and non-comitter contributors who are actively working on a code module, this would help to maintain the distinction between those who are actively involved in the work of a module and those who are also Jakarta comitters but whos current efforts are focused on other code. In terms of releases, direction, and the election of new commiters Teams would have informal decision making by voting, and a Team's vote would influence the authoritative decision of the PMC, remember that *all* of the Teams' comitters would have a binding vote on the PMC by this stage. (otherwise what is the point!) Think of a Team as being little more than the equivalent of the status file, a list of participants and their area of activity, but consider that the notion of Teams would give an identity to the group without creating the barriers and heirarchy that the notion of Sub-project does but creating just enough of a distinction to allow a small group to make progress within the context of a large project. Teams would not be static or slowly expanding clubs for every participant ever, but would represent the code module and the fluctuating sub-set of our community currently active on it, if you want to step aside for a month, take your name off the list, come back and add yourself again. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [License] for jars in CVS
> I see what you are saying, but why is this an issue only with OGNL? Is it because of license > incompatibilities? 'Cause there are other jars in CVS both Apache and non-Apache. Harish, It isn't only an issue with OGNL, it is a general issue which has been bubbling away for months. In principle it is not good to have Jars in CVS. In practice it makes life much easier for many people. There are moves afoot to produce some kind of jar download site which would provide the convenience of automated downloads with Ant or Maven, and comply with licence issues, and not require jars to be in CVS, cvs is not great at handling binaries. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Proactively encourage TLP status
> We should trust the judgment of our community, let each committer > decide for themselves, and then Jakarta be whatever Jakarta wants to be. +1 I totally agree, and I would hope that no one seriously holds any other view. Concern about oversight has been flagged as an issue for us to address and we are duty bound to explore the ways in which we can achieve this. I would hope that by debating the issue we are bringing it to the wider attention of our community, and disseminating fact and opinion (perhaps, indeed, for a third or fourth time) which will help to inform the actions of every commiter and PMC member and bring us closer to our goal without any radical or authoritarian steps being required. Frankly I would regard either step as being at best a partial failure, and at worst potentially more damaging to the community than any failure to _quickly_ resolve the situation. I still believe that by continuing to have an open debate we are making progress, and I hope that others can see how frank and honest examination of the various opinions and potential directions is in itself vital to bind and re-unify the project and engage the whole community in shaping our mutual future. At the end of the day (Oh I hate it when I say that!) the most important asset we have is each other, and we have nothing to keep us here apart from the attraction of a healthy community, it is not bylaws or oversight or promotion that should be the focus of our efforts to restore some balance, rather it should be the community, and through the actions of a united community we will achieve the technical requirements of procedure and oversight in much the same way that a healty community will produce high quality software with very little management effort required. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] Proactively encourage TLP status
-1 I don't think the PMC should be doing anything other than encouraging sub-projects to *consider* TLP at this stage. The proposal contains a number of detailed actions most of which I'd wholeheartedly support as they will help sub-projects to consider pro's and con's of promotion. However I think it is inappropriate to be talking about "proactively encouraging proposal then vote". I would much rather that individuals who are active participants in the sub-project reach this stage, or don't, without having being prompted by the PMC. For the record I think that many sub-projects would benefit from promotion, but not all of them, but I think the process would be made much harder is the sub-project is hustled into applying before the participants are really comfortable with the nature and consequences of the change. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Indemnification of the PMC
Stephen wrote, > For example, am I in writing this email, acting in the capacity of a PMC > member, a committer, or an individual? Seems to me that part of the reason it is difficult to resolve the issues confronting Jakarta is that several initial assumptions are required, and that these are not stated or clearly implied anywhere. Greg assures us that the board aren't likely to act precipitately (if thats how you spell it), and we haven't had "official" communications from The Members of The Board on the topic, yet there are a lot of hints about the unsuitability of Jakarta's present organisation. I think we could do with some concrete direction, or at least an affirmation of our mandate to continue what we are currently doing. Because to me it is increasingly feeling like we're trying to fix something which (apart from a few details like the bylaws) isn't broken on the basis of speculation and conjecture, and the danger in that is obvious, we'll end up breaking the thing we're trying to fix, or failing to fix the parts which are broken. And with the utmost respect for Sam hopefully that is something a new Chairman, with more time and fresh enthusiasm for the role, will be able to provide. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PROPOSAL] As it ever were
> As both Roy and Greg have said, if the Jakarta committers truly > understood how few rights and privileges they have, they would be > demanding both ASF and PMC membership. Few do, so few have. Well I kind of asked for PMC nomination, are you saying that we should, or indeed could, ask for membership? d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [License] for jars in CVS
> I am with Erik on "no JARs in CVS". Unless it is a legal issue, I > would certainly like to distribute > all JARs with the distribution. In the case of most of the licences we'd be likely to consider in this context it is usually perfectly OK to distribute Jars in a distribution because that gives you the opportunity to comply with licence conditions regarding distribution of their licence and other materials. The problem boils down to the fact that some licences, and I know that JavaMail and Activation are cases of this, do allow re-distribution as part of a complete product, but don't allow re-distribution in any other case. Similarly OS licences require that a copy of the licence be distributed along with the binary, and simply placing both in cvs doesn't compel anyone to download or read the licence. As far as OGNL is concerned, from my lurking on the Tapestry lists I'd say that it is pretty clear that there is a close association between the projects, and if you want to continue to have OGNL in cvs I'd get Drew to send a mail to the Tapestry dev list, or the PMC confirming that they are happy for this to happen. FWIW on a previous occasion that this subject came up I got a similar assurance from Mark Mathews regarding the mm.mysql jdbc drivers, he was quite happy with the way we were doing things and this seemed to be acceptable. Leastways no-one here complained. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [License] for jars in CVS
Erik > As for the larger issue of "no JARs in CVS" - I disagree. I don't believe that there is room for opinion on this, the fact is it is possible for people to download jars using viewcvs without having read the licence therefore it is not acceptable. UNLESS you have *specific* dispensation from the licensor to do this for your project. d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
> While closing out everyone else. Like those who are not yet committers. I certainly think that increasing the size of the PMC makes it easier for things to get discussed on the PMC list, but if people care (and you do for one) about visibility the very nature of things mean that it won't happen for long before someone starts to get obstreperous. I know from the past that you'd favour a fully open process, but we don't have that. I don't think this should _necessarily_ be a social experiment, in open management, this isn't a political project its about software. d. -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. > From: "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:38:54 -0500 > To: Jakarta General List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious > > > On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:27 AM, Vic Cekvenich wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> ... sensitive things should be on the PMC >> list, and non-sensitive things should be on the general@ list. >> >> >> What could be something that is sensteive in an open source community? >> This is new direction. Gray areas should be well exposed. If you are >> ashamed of it, don't do open source community. > > There are lots of things. Committer votes, for example, are considered > a sensitive issue. Inter-personal disputes. > > If you would have been fair with your attribution, you would have > included what I then said next, namely that I felt it sensitive > > "because of the confusion that it sews. My hope was for us to get our > act together before we approached the rest of the community, and do it > as a group." > > IOW, simply to get a handle on how we approach the community to make > things clear and non-confusing. > >> >> For a developer ... lets have some code in open, and the bad code we >> will just have in a encrypted jar. Is this open source? >> >> What do I mean by that: >> ASF used(?) to be Libreterian: If you want code to do something, >> commit the code to do it. >> >> ASF used(?) to be run by commiters. >> Now some are trying to develop "rulling" class, that is carving out >> roles for itself and rules to legislate iteligence and integrity for >> commiters, but does not committ itself?. >> What happend to emritius commiters? People who did not CVS a chunk of >> code in a while lose vote rights and their berucrat office. >> The people that are vocal on berucracy are same people I wonder where >> have they CVSed latelly. > > Vic, if you've been paying ANY attention, you'd know that what we are > trying to do is just the opposite - get *every* committer in Jakarta > onto the PMC, *eliminating* this needless boundary. > > Please re-read. > > geir > > -- > Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m) > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EM
Re: Just in case you're curious
Andy wrote: > FYI, except where I feel the situation absolutely mandates it, I will be > voting/discussing here. > I choose to > work in the open. I choose to be googled. I volunteered for it in fact. Well said, I agree with this. But why be so confrontational about it? After all in the tradition of itch scratching you took issue with the private discussions and did something, no one is questioning that it was the right outcome and that we were being half-assed about it, but what is this argument about now? d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
Vik, > What could be something that is sensteive in an open source community? > This is new direction. Gray areas should be well exposed. If you are > ashamed of it, don't do open source community. The source code is open, "Open Source" and to support this the development process is also open and public. The organisation is not run to be an example of open management, only to support the development of code released under an open source licence. That the ASF also encourages open and concesus based decision making is not the same as requiring every issue to be discussed in public. There are times when it is necessary to denigrate individuals and groups in order to have a true examination of relevant issues and a full airing of opinion. It is not necessarily right, or desirable, that we should seek to have such opinions aired in the spotlight that focuses on Apache. > What do I mean by that: > ASF used(?) to be Libreterian: If you want code to do something, commit > the code to do it. ASF is still libertarian as far as I can see. It is still a meritocracy. You can still commit code, or contribute patches, same as ever. There is, however, a move afoot to seek ways in which Jakarta can best represent itself and support the ambitions of the communities which form it. This debate started off on the PMC list where PMC members are free to openly criticise and denigrate each other and the structure and organisation of the project without having to worry that their criticism will enter the public domain. This debate has now moved here due to prompting and cross posting by PMC members themselves who felt that it was wrong to conduct it behind closed doors. This is as it should be, it demonstrates that the PMC is working properly, and the widespready support for a public debate suggests that it was the correct move. > ASF used(?) to be run by commiters. > Now some are trying to develop "rulling" class, that is carving out > roles for itself and rules to legislate iteligence and integrity for > commiters, but does not committ itself?. Not really, the PMC is comprised of commiters, and is attempting to expand to include *all* comitters. > ASF is still very small, $100K in the bank. It's committer volunters and > users that use it. > No need for a rulling class, what's wrong with peers? This is exactly what is intended and being sought. > Some officers rotated in for admin. > If commiters don't get active to make it better, it will get worse. > People I know are active in CVS (via CVS posts I see) have said very > little relative to people I never see in CVS. Well, that is entierly up to those people, no one expects that a commiter must concern themselves with the running of the project, those that do are eligible for the PMC. > Ex: "germaine" issue, why no public vote of any kind on it ever, else > link it for me. I think once "germaine" is addressed, things go back to > normal. None of this : we are not smart enough to understand. This is > the only issue that is secret, AFAIK. Once again let me remind you, the Geromino project (which I infer your refrence to be to) is a project of the Apache Incubator PMC. THE JAKARTA PMC HAS NO REMIT TO CONSIDER ANY ISSUES ARISING IN ANOTHER PROJECT, INCLUDING THE INCUBATOR PROJECT. Jakarta PMC members may or may not be involved in the incubator, but incubator business is not carried out here. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: TRACE level [WAS] Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?
> Unfortunately, you can't buy nor open source humor. Perhaps you could delegate it? I've often considered selling my children on the internet, they have a great sense of humour. OTOH perhaps it wouldn't stretch *that* far! d. that was a JOKE, my wife would go seriously ballistic if I sold our kids - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Confused with PMCs, TLPs, ASF and Power?
> Be aware of the > disclaimer at the top Nice disclaimer ;-) d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
> As a committer I would like to know what's going on with the origanization. I can understand certain > private conversations that involve legal implications, but anything else, I think, should be out in > the open to do justice to the committers. It seems like there is some talk going on about the > Jakarta banner in private that I have no clue about. I would appreciate the knowledge sharing in > such metters. Harish, First off, as a commiter your entitled to be proposed for membership of the PMC, which I'd be happy to do. Secondly there has been a long drawn out debate in numerous places (including here) about the future direction of Jakarta, recently there have been threads on the PMC list which raise the issue, but they are mainly just at the "My Idea" stage. I hope those who have been debating there will raise their issues here, it is important to involve the whole community in this debate as it affects us all. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
> Do you feel that we'll still be an open source organization in more than > name if all decisions end up being made on private PMC lists not open to the > public? For the record I'm in favour of transacting business HERE. But I would like to respond by saying that as I understand it it is the source and the development of it which is open, not the organisation. So of course we would still be, like MySQL and JBOSS and so many other commercial/open hybrids. OTOH I don't think I'd like participating as much if decisions were imposed by the secret handshakes and arcane knowledge department. >From what I can see there is no conspiracy here, just some lack of consideration by people starting threads on the PMC list which would be better off here. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
> >The reason everything is quiet here is all decisions are being made on > >private lists now. > Well at least it's honest. But it makes me wonder about the long term > effect of a private decision process in an open source group. It seems to > have almost destroyed the XFree86 project recently. It's certainly not deliberate. Least I hope not. I guess Andy was trying to shame people into using this list. Go Andy . d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Promotion of sub projects
> Just a reminder, but there need not be a 1:1 mapping of PMC and web domain, > so there is no need to breakup the Jakarta web site unless people *want* to > do so. Quite so, there's no obligation on a promoted sub-project to abandon its place in the jakarta infrastructure. In fact the idea of Jakarta being a less formal grouping of TLP's with a shared mission and audience has been proposed before and IMO is not a bad idea. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Promotion of sub projects
David Sean Taylor wrote, > Just for fun I thought I'd fill this out for the Jetspeed and Pluto > projects (WSRP4J is another possibility). > We would like to start a TLP named 'portal.apache.org' including > Jetspeed-1, Jetspeed-2 and Pluto, and other portal apps as they are > developed. Good, well I suggest that your answers (ruthlessly snipped) tell you that its worth pursuing. I'd suggest a good first step would be to start a discussion on the relevant dev list(s) to see if there is broadly support or opposition to the idea. It might be a good idea to provide and overview of what the hell promotion means and enumerate the benefits and drawbacks it brings. I'd be happy to prime you from my own experience, or subscribe and join in, as I'm sure will others who've been through (or oppose) this. If you garner a general consensus the next step would be to draw up a proposal for the commiters to vote upon, including the makeup of the initial PMC, project scope and inaugural PMC chair, and possibly (kind of bootstrappingly) the conditions which have to be met for the vote to be sucessful. If your vote suceeds you then make a formally worded proposal to the board, James included a short covering letter outlining our reasoning. The board then vote and either reject it with recommendations (such as to modify the scope) or accept it and you're faced with the infrastructure tasks. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Promotion of sub projects
In the light of a request to the PMC by a Jakarta sub-project to have its own "top-level" wiki I thought of this... Jakarta is attempting to put our house in order wrt oversight, this is manifesting itself as incresed centralisation of oversight, and reduced autonomy for sub-projects. An issue we've discussed before is promotion to TLP of existing mature sub-projects. This started off with an assertion that no-one from Ant would be in favour, and ended up with Ant, Avalon, James and Maven all taking the plunge. One of the most obvious benefits of TLP to promoted sub-projects is their own top-level infrastructure. Providing access to this from within Jakarta seems wrong, it breaks the seperation of concerns, would provide ammunition to the argument that this PMC doesn't have full oversight and blurs the line between project and sub-project. If a project wants this it should consider promotion as the route to achieve it. I would like to propose (but this is not a proposal, just provoking discussion) that we draw up some benchmarks for promotion, which could give some indication that a sub-project is ready to *consider* promotion, and probably should do so seriously. These could be similar to the guidelines for adoption as a sub-project (http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html). some ideas are noted below (a little tongue-in-cheek in the style of a lifestyle magazine). Such checks need not compel a sub-project to apply for promotion, but I would certainly like sub-projects to consider it as they grow in size, maturity or scope, and perhaps an official checklist will remind people and give them the confidence to raise the subject, and perhaps a target to aim for. 1/ Community dynamic, a) Is your community self sustaining and largely independant of other parts of Jakarta? Not the individuals, the community. Is it, for instance, so heavily influenced by the direction of some other sub-project that membership of both is virtually a pre-requisite for understanding. b) Are many of your commiters also commiters of some other sub-project for this, or similar, reasons? 2/ Project Management, a) Does your sub-project need or get much direction from the Jakarta PMC (or is it mostly handled by the comitters with lip service paid to the PMC)? 3/ Community health, a) Is your community highly dependant on one or two key people, or is there a real mix of talent working as a team? b) Is there generally an amicable, if hotly debated, concensus? 4/ Infrastructure resources, a) Does your sub-project have aspirations to own its own top-level resources (cvs, mailing lists, wiki, web-site)? 5/ Product seperation, a) Is your product tightly bound to other Jakarta sub-projects (excluding commons) or does it only supply a need or consume deliverables in the usual way? b) Does your sub-project contribute a lot of code to another, or receive a lot of contributions from another Jakarta sub-project? 6/ Scope, a) Has your sub-project outgrown it's original scope? b) Does your sub-project have a need or desire to maintain it's own sub-projects, incubate new ideas, or accept incubated projects from the incubator? 7/ a) Are there any compeling arguments which can be raised to support remaining within Jakarta? Score 1 for each of the following answers: 1a yes 1b no 2a not much 3a real mix 3b generally amicable 4a yes 5a normal supply/consume relationship 5b not much direct contribution to or by other sub-projects 6a yes 6b yes 7a not really Total 1-3 You probably belong here, consider staying. Total 4-6 You might need to address some issues before you go. Total 7-9 Promotion could be your path to further growth and maturity. Total 10-11 You treat this place like a hotel, its time to think about what you really want. d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ***
Re: [POLL] pmc alumni
--- [+1 ] Cool [ ] Whatever [ ] UnCool [ ] I've Got A Better Idea (Please Tell Everyone About It) --- *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
